In this episode, Joe talks about his journey with kettlebells, how he got into coaching, and why he believes kettlebell training should be taught in the United States. Joe is a world-renowned coach, author, and author of several books, including "The Kettlebell Method" and "Kettlebell Training Methodology". He is also the author of the book, "The Progressive overload" and has coached some of the world's best powerlifters. Joe has been a long-time friend of mine, and I am so excited to have him on the show to talk about all things kettlebell lifting and training! I hope you enjoy this episode and find some value in this episode. If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review on iTunes. I am always looking for new guests to come on the podcast! Timestamps: 1:00:00 - What is a good day for a kettlebell day? 4:30 - How to get into training 5:00- How to train a bigger kettlebell 6:15 - Why kettlebelling is a natural training modality 8:40 - Why we should teach people how to lift more weight 9:30- Why you should train more than once 11:15- What is progressive overload 12:40- How much weight you should you lift 13: How to build a bigger calf 14: How long should you carry a bigger leg 15: What is too much weight for a calf? 16:20 - Shoulder weight? 17: Why you need to be lighter? 18:00 19:30 21:20 22:00 How to lift a bigger chest? 23:40 24:15 25:00 What do you need a bigger neck? 26:10 27:00 Shoulder strength How do you have a lighter calf ? 28: How do I build a heavier calf 29: What are you going to get a stronger calf 30: What do I need to get stronger? 35: How much more? 36:00 Do you need more muscle 32:00 Is there a better training plan? 33:00 Can you gain more weight in a day?
00:00:08.000It's a pleasure to meet you and an honor.
00:00:10.000I've been following your work for a long time, man.
00:00:12.000I mean, I was first introduced to you and your methods by Steve Maxwell, who was a huge proponent of the kettlebell, and then I started getting into your videos.
00:03:57.000To put it in the Milo terms, you have to, after you carry the calf for a while, it grows, you have to back off to a lighter calf and start building up again.
00:04:14.000So for some reason, that unidirectional adaptation, just in one, you know, we're getting stronger at the bench press or what have you, or carrying the calf.
00:04:31.000But tactically, we do have tricks of the trade to beat that, to work around that.
00:04:39.000And there's a number of ways of doing that.
00:04:43.000The oldest way of doing that, and it's very smart, still very smart for a lot of people, They would call this, I think, possibly constant weight training or something like that.
00:04:57.000But the Soviets described it as step loading.
00:05:00.000So let's look at your typical beginner, somebody in the gym.
00:05:07.000And so the person starts lifting whatever weight for whatever reps.
00:05:13.000And the next week, let's say next week he has five pounds.
00:05:17.000And he does it again and he does it again.
00:05:20.000Well, the Soviets figured out that it's much better for him to stay at the same weight for several weeks and then make a bigger jump.
00:05:29.000So what you're doing pretty much is you are making adaptations more stable.
00:05:36.000And it just happens in the cellular levels.
00:06:10.000I use that tactic with my latest edition of my kettlebell, Simple and Sinister, because it's much more reliable than just progressive overload.
00:06:20.000And also because psychologically, first of all, it weeds out the impatient people.
00:06:28.000So you're told to stay with the same load for a while.
00:06:32.000Some people automatically say, oh, forget it.
00:06:47.000And then some time goes by and suddenly they don't anymore.
00:06:49.000So it just very much is a very clear sense of accomplishment.
00:06:54.000So this is called step loading or using the old-timers terminology, the constant weight training.
00:07:03.000If you look at the other ways of making progress, so another approach is called cycling.
00:07:11.000And cycling, so the one that I just described, that would really be if we could artificially stop the growth of the calf, like, okay, stop growing for a while, which we can't.
00:07:23.000But the cycling, this is where I mentioned earlier, this is where you go back to a lighter calf.
00:07:30.000So the classic American powerlifting training template is cycling.
00:07:35.000So the history of cycling is very interesting.
00:08:34.000To give you a very simple tactic, that's something that your listeners can use in their training, whether they follow the cycling format or they do something else, is that Russian scientist's discovery that your endocrine system pretty much can take two weeks out of four of heavy loading.
00:08:57.000There are some exceptions, but forget exceptions.
00:09:01.000Generally, just two weeks of heavy loading.
00:09:04.000And if you look at the classic powerlifting cycles by, let's say, Marty Gallagher, so for four weeks you do sets of eight, four weeks sets of five, four weeks sets of three.
00:09:16.000And in week one, you start out with a weight that's comfortable.
00:11:35.000In variable loading, you have certain load parameters.
00:11:41.000Like, for example, you will know that...
00:11:45.000Your average training weights will be 75% of your maximum.
00:11:49.000You will know that you will perform, for example, 300 squats per month or whatever.
00:11:54.000So these numbers are arrived at, experimentally, over decades.
00:12:00.000And what variable loading does As opposed to the traditional methods, traditional progressive overload, is that the jump in volume, for example, from one training unit to another,
00:12:16.000one day, one week, one month, and so on, it's at least 20%.
00:12:21.000So the jumps are really high, really high.
00:12:25.000The variable loading was developed by Professor Arkady Vorobyov, who was an Olympic weightlifting champion, and he was the premier sports scientist.
00:12:35.000So he argued that in nature, most changes are discrete.
00:12:45.000So whatever adaptation takes place in your body, the same thing, whatever happens with many physical processes, chemical processes, and so on.
00:12:53.000So He concluded that training has to be highly variable.
00:12:58.000So you understand when I mean that it's a 20% minimal change, we call that delta 20 principle.
00:13:06.000It doesn't mean it's constantly going up.
00:13:33.000In fact, this is a little entertaining.
00:13:41.000Experienced strength coaches, and especially people with some sort of a background in mathematics, They're able to dissect and analyze training plans from other coaches.
00:13:55.000You can take an experienced powerlifting coach, show him a program from another coach, and the coach will be able to tell whether this will work or not, who this will work for, and so on, and kind of figure out what's under the hood right there.
00:14:51.000It's going right here, and suddenly it's gone.
00:14:54.000So if traditional cyclings, like clear photograph...
00:15:00.000The variable overload makes me think of, remember in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, where the kid is looking at Seurat's painting, you know, all these dots right there.
00:15:15.000So when you step away, you see something.
00:15:17.000You start getting closer, just a whole bunch of dots.
00:15:26.000This method, the Soviet Olympic weightlifting method, was developed over several decades by a number of coaches, by a number of scientists.
00:15:38.000So it's a very much collaborative effort.
00:15:40.000So Vorobyov was one for sure, Medvedev, Chernyak, a number of others.
00:15:48.000Before even dissecting this method, let me tell you how successful this method was.
00:15:58.000You can look up the world weightlifting records in Olympic weightlifting.
00:16:03.000You hear about all these different records set by this lifter, that lifter, and so on and so forth.
00:16:08.000Few people realize that the International Weightlifting Federation has changed the weight classes two or three times since the 80s.
00:16:21.000And the reason they did that is to erase the drug, the record set by the drug-taking athletes back then.
00:16:29.000Of course, Joe, I'm very happy that as soon as they changed the weight classes, lifters stopped taking drugs like that.
00:16:36.000So if you look at these records, kilo per kilo, pound per pound, And if you chart them, compare them to what they did then, to what they do today, you will find that while they did catch up in a few weight classes,
00:16:52.000in about half of these classes, the records from the 80s still stand.
00:16:56.000So, for example, what Yurik Varbanyan did in 1980, at 82 kilos, he totaled 400 kilos in the snatch and the clean and jerk.
00:17:15.000So, first of all, the system still remains.
00:17:18.000If we're just taking a very large, big picture, 50,000 foot look at strength, There are a great many ways of getting strong, some of them very good, some of them mediocre, some of them very bad.
00:17:32.000But historically in lifting sports, the two systems that have been predominant are the Soviet weightlifting system and the American classic powerlifting system from the 70s and 80s.
00:17:45.000So that was kind of a long detour to Before I tell you why this stuff that they figured out back in the 1960s, why it matters, just to say it still is the best.
00:18:03.000For example, when you're studying endurance, going into the cell, studying the biochemistry of the cell and the body, taking it apart, figuring out how this works is very helpful.
00:18:41.000And let's, I'll be happy to talk about this, but if you don't mind, let me just finish on this variable overload in the Soviet weightlifting system.
00:18:48.000So, what they did, even though they also, you know, they cut the muscle, looked at that as well, just didn't learn as much.
00:18:55.000But the coaches programmed particular loads for athletes, and watched what happened.
00:19:00.000And then they watched how the athletes performed, and they watched how the top athletes performed.
00:19:19.000So just to give you an example of how enormous that undertaking was.
00:19:26.000So typical strength training study is what?
00:19:29.000Six weeks for some untrained college subjects.
00:19:32.000You know, guys who are just on their phones.
00:19:35.000Professor Medvedev, who is also world champion, he studied the training loads of top weightlifters only when they were successful in competition for four Olympic cycles.
00:19:49.000So we're talking about 16 years, and then somebody else did it for another cycle.
00:19:53.000And there are just some amazing patterns just emerged.
00:19:57.000So for instance, I'm going to give you a rundown of what the patterns are.
00:20:03.000There are certain optimal volumes, how much exercise you do.
00:20:07.000There are certain optimal intensities.
00:20:10.000So if you follow the variable overload method, the optimal intensity, so the average intensity would be about 75% of your max, which for most people would be probably somewhere like 8 reps or something you could do, maybe 10,
00:20:26.000maybe 8. And You will see that about half of all the lifts that you do are about 75-80%.
00:20:36.000Now, where do all the other lifts come in?
00:20:49.000So the lighter weights, like 60%, are on the bottom.
00:20:54.000And the heavy weights like 90% and higher are on the bottom as well.
00:20:58.000So to figure it out, you just have to do most of your work with these average weights.
00:21:03.000They're not so light, so you're going to respect them, but they're not so heavy that you have any question about performing lifting them correctly.
00:21:13.000So, and then there's another aspect of intensity is just doing some heavier lifts, a very carefully measured number of heavy lifts in addition, like 90% or whatever, occasionally.
00:21:27.000Then they figured out the proper volumes.
00:21:30.000Just to give you an idea, if you're looking at, let's say, you know, you might be doing 30 reps of given exercise per session, what have you, although there's variability.
00:21:40.000But then there's also something else that's very interesting, is the optimal number of repetitions with a given weight.
00:21:47.000And this is what hurts people's heads.
00:21:51.000If you look at the weights from 70% to 90%, The optimal number of repetitions are one-third to two-thirds of your maximum.
00:22:04.000So let me give an example to the reader, to the listener.
00:22:07.000Let's say that you're lifting a 10-rep max weight.
00:22:10.000So you go all out as hard as possible.
00:22:38.000They experimented with all sorts of rep ranges.
00:22:42.000And they figured out that if the reps are too low, they're given a weight, you don't get stronger.
00:22:47.000If the reps get too high, either the athlete gets hurt, or his technique is compromised, or he's just unable to perform the optimal volume.
00:22:57.000So, pretty much, roughly, you're looking at doing about half of the reps you're capable of.
00:23:18.000And that's one of the ways you can get strong.
00:23:20.000So, in summary, we have We have step loading, which is where you stay with the same weight for a while, or the same reps, whatever, and then make a sudden jump.
00:23:34.000That's the best way to train for beginners, usually.
00:23:38.000We have wave loading, or cycling, which is where we build up, jump back, and build up again.
00:23:46.000And we have variable loading, which is almost chaotic.
00:23:51.000We're just constantly surprised the body with what we're throwing at it.
00:23:54.000But we do that within very narrow parameters.
00:23:58.000So this method was purely developed by studying winners.
00:24:04.000And winners is where they finally took that.
00:24:08.000But the studies were done at every level.
00:24:10.000So, for example, coaches in the field would conduct something called pedagogical experiments, which is a study that's not quite as...
00:24:20.000Not quite as scientifically solid, but it's still good enough.
00:24:24.000So the first to test things out, lower level athletes.
00:24:27.000And then we'll finally take it to higher level athletes.
00:24:29.000So the things that I'm telling you about, they have been universally effective for athletes above the beginner level.
00:24:37.000And of course, there are some subtle changes as you progress.
00:25:39.000But the body will still work the same way.
00:25:42.000Now, these principles, have they caught on in the United States?
00:25:46.000I mean, they've caught on with strong firsts.
00:25:49.000I know you implement these and people teach these.
00:25:52.000But is this something that's universally sort of accepted?
00:25:55.000Or is it still something that people are cautiously curious about?
00:26:01.000It's definitely not universal, in part because people don't know about it.
00:26:05.000In part, you have to implement this correctly.
00:26:09.000So right now, there's several areas where you would see that is...
00:26:15.000Well, one, obviously, the Baryshekos powerlifting programs that have been imported here, but they're used by powerlifters.
00:26:22.000The other is we have the program called Plan Strong, which is, again, this is a very faithful representation of the Soviet weightlifting system, but applied to general strength exercises like, you know, squats, deadlifts, and so on.
00:26:36.000And the other thing what we also do, and this is what we do with the military and so on and so forth, we have some simple programs, very simple programs that are designed using this Delta 20 principle and using this optimal loads that they could just go out and use.
00:26:56.000The nice thing is, unlike progressive overload, cycling, if something happens, you've got a problem.
00:27:14.000And one of the things that I really like what you're saying about is completing the adaptation with your tendons and your ligaments and all these different things that oftentimes are injured when you're ramping up your weightlifting.
00:27:29.000And you're trying to increase the amount of weight you carry.
00:27:32.000So this principle of maintaining a similar weight for a long time allowing your body to complete that adaptation, that makes a lot of sense.
00:27:42.000Adaptations need to be stable and it's not true just for strength training.
00:27:47.000If you're looking at endurance as well, the adaptations in the mitochondria as well, you can get some acute adaptations, a very short term, like, oh, you know, bigger whatever, guns in six weeks, or faster 400 meters in six weeks.
00:28:03.000So it takes time for things to really get solidified.
00:28:07.000And also, if you're more patient with your progression, as well, you're going to find that Your gains are much more stable if you take some time off, which is important for anybody.
00:28:19.000You travel, you get sick, some other thing happens.
00:28:24.000So if you've been training in a manner where you're not forcing yourself, in fact, this is one of the very important points that Soviet coaches would make that do not force adaptation.
00:28:39.000David Rigard is probably the greatest weightlifter of all times.
00:28:43.000So he's over 60 world records in several weight classes and just unbelievable athlete.
00:28:50.000So he just made a point that do not force the strength development.
00:29:12.000I'm a fan of books by old-time strongmen.
00:29:17.000Not all of them, of course, but some of them are just remarkable.
00:29:22.000Earl Liederman, he was an American strongman and educator.
00:29:26.000He wrote a book back in 1925 called The Seekers of Strength, and it's an awesome book.
00:29:33.000So you read this book, and if you follow the directions in this book from 1925, you will get far superior results than for most pop fitness and strength programs.
00:29:45.000Because people who had some sense, some common sense, they were able to again observe what's going on.
00:29:52.000They were not driven by some slogan, oh, one more rep, whatever.
00:29:55.000The one more rep thing is very embraced here in America with meatheads, which are my people.
00:30:05.000The thing about it is that you think that mental toughness is going to push you past your limits or what your perceived limits are and that that's where the real strength comes.
00:30:17.000That's where the real growth takes place.
00:30:19.000That's a very valid point for you mentally, not physically.
00:30:41.000Yeah, Ronnie Coleman, who was Mr. Olympia, just at one point in time, one of the most impressive and spectacular physiques on earth, is now so injured from all of his incredible lifts.
00:30:54.000He was known for lifting enormous, enormous amounts of weight.
00:30:58.000And, I mean, I think when they asked him about if we do anything different, because I think he's had...
00:31:04.000I hope I'm not wrong, but I think more than 11 back surgeries over the last few years.
00:31:10.000He's essentially herniated every single disc in his back, and a series of back operations has left him walking with crutches, and it's bad.
00:31:30.000I'm going to interrupt you for a second.
00:31:32.000The champion has that mindset on the platform.
00:31:36.000The champion, whenever the champion is in the gym, he or she is going to approach this as a working man, pretty much.
00:31:44.000This is the plan and this is what I do.
00:31:47.000So you will find that absolutely in sports you have to be extremely tough, and you have to model some of that in training as well, but in a very, very careful, timed manner.
00:31:57.000So, for instance, top lifters, top power lifters, they max twice a year at the Nationals and at the Worlds.
00:32:10.000Meanwhile, they train hard, they push themselves, they do everything right, but they do not try to squeeze out one extra rep.
00:32:36.000And I just, Andy was telling me how some lifters he has seen that would just simply try to hang with others, better lifters in the gym, and try to repeat exactly what they do.
00:32:57.000And like, for example, let's talk about heavy lifting, just heavy singles, let's say.
00:33:07.000If, I'm sure everybody who listens to your program has, at what point of their life, decided to up their bench press by going to a maximum once a week.
00:33:24.000Typically six weeks for a beginner, and an advanced lifter might tolerate two or three weeks, and that's about it.
00:33:31.000So for whatever reasons, after that, you know, your nervous system starts burning out, your endocrine system can't keep up, and that's it.
00:33:40.000So for that reason, before the competition, you might take like a 90% single or double, or something like that.
00:33:47.000And if you look at the longevity of powerlifters, and if you look at longevity of the weightlifters of the Soviet school, it's very impressive.
00:33:59.000So, well, David Rigard himself, who was the champion around, you know, in the 70s.
00:34:05.000So he is probably pushing 70 right now, you know, lives in a farm, works on a farm.
00:34:11.000But his coach, doing great, very healthy.
00:34:13.000But his coach, that's an even more interesting story.
00:34:18.000Rudolf Pluckfelder, he was probably the oldest to win the Olympics in weightlifting.
00:34:24.000He was 36. And he worked in the mines in daytime and then trained hard.
00:34:31.000So Plückfielder ethnically is German.
00:34:34.000So one of the Germans living in the Soviet Union.
00:34:38.000And eventually when the Soviet Union fell apart, Plückfielder immigrated to Germany.
00:34:44.000And so a journalist came to visit him.
00:34:49.000And so here's this really spry looking guy fooling around in the garden.
00:34:54.000And the general is asking, pardon me, sir, may I speak to your dad?
00:34:57.000So here's this guy who is almost 90 years old, who still looks about 30 years younger, who still does jump squats with 90 kilos for sets of 10. And this is an example.
00:35:11.000So heavy weights don't have the same longevity, but that does not have anything to do with the training system that has to do with the fact the strain you put in your system by eating so much, just not so good.
00:35:25.000If you also look at the powerlifters, most successful powerlifters, American powerlifters, Eddie Cohn competed for, if I'm not mistaken, about 30 years at the highest level, from a very lightweight class to a much heavier one.
00:35:42.000And he stayed super healthy throughout.
00:35:48.000And Eddie, right now, yours after retirement is very, very healthy.
00:35:52.000So you will find that the mentality of saving this eye of the tiger for when it matters, as opposed to treating every training day as a competition, that makes a big difference for performance and for longevity.
00:36:06.000It just battles the mindset of always do more, always push harder, always give more.
00:36:14.000You're all, leave everything in the gym.
00:36:16.000This is the mindset that people have been sort of indoctrinated into.
00:36:21.000They think that hard work is what really matters.
00:36:24.000Hard work does matter, but hard work can come in a lot of different, it can manifest itself differently.
00:36:30.000Would that approach have worked with a guy like Ronnie Coleman because he's a bodybuilder?
00:36:34.000So bodybuilders, obviously, you're not talking about competition in the sense of being able to lift a lot of weight.
00:36:39.000You're talking about just mass, acquiring mass.
00:36:42.000Well, you know, the bodybuilders from the older era, like Franco Colombo, very sad that...
00:36:52.000Dr. Columba passed recently, but he was an exceptionally strong man, a very healthy man.
00:36:59.000Yeah, but it was a hard issue that has nothing to do with lifting.
00:37:02.000So he was very healthy and very strong until the end.
00:37:05.000And if you look at the guys of that generation, they're doing great.
00:37:09.000And if you look at other bodybuilders, let's say bodybuilders who have some kind of a power bodybuilding approach, these guys have been around longer as well.
00:37:20.000If you look at the old-timers again, Dave Draper, these guys...
00:38:17.000For longevity, you sort of have to have that sort of intelligent approach.
00:38:21.000So do you think a guy like Ronnie Coleman would be able to achieve the mass and the size and the way he was built with a different strategy?
00:39:52.000There is a belief that machines are great for beginners because you don't have to control it, it's safer, and it's isolated, so on and so forth.
00:40:02.000Really, machines have limited use for advanced lifters when they're injured or whenever they have to just really focus on something.
00:40:29.000So the pec deck might be okay for a bodybuilder looking for more cuts or for somebody recovering from an injury knowing exactly the angle to which to push.
00:40:40.000But your typical person going to the gym has no business doing that.
00:41:18.000But these principles of using the entire body with kettlebells, Using different parts of your body, using your legs, your core, your ab, all in one workout.
00:41:35.000It's also so effective time-wise because you can get a spectacular workout in a very short amount of time.
00:45:29.000Before somebody starts jumping correctly, jumping off boxes and so on and so forth, just even hopping across the floor, it requires some coaching.
00:45:41.000It requires addressing some dysfunction and so on and so forth.
00:45:46.000The kettlebell swing, for example, it's So many hard men with high mileage who are really banged up in so many different ways, their backs, their knees, their hips, they're able to do swings safely.
00:48:58.000So the duration of a set is 30 to 60 seconds.
00:49:07.000You have to select the range of motion where there's no stacking.
00:49:13.000There's no support from your bones at all.
00:49:16.000So, for example, if you were to do a squat, you go down below parallel, but not to the point where you're sitting on your calves.
00:49:25.000And come up just a little above parallel and below again.
00:49:29.000So just that most unpleasant, the most painful area.
00:49:34.000If you're doing, let's say, push-ups for your chest, for example, you would almost brush the deck with your chest, come up about halfway, and come back down.
00:49:46.000And the speed is very slow, so there's no momentum at all.
00:49:51.000Now, it doesn't sound like anything new, but here's what's new.
00:49:54.000Silyanov optimized the rest periods, and that's a big game changer.
00:50:01.000Normally, when people train in this manner, bodybuilders and others, they just want to get more burn possible.
00:50:18.000So they try to run from one set to the next.
00:50:21.000So they'll do that, let's say, that 30-second set, then they will just, you know, rest for 30 seconds and do it again, completely hammer themselves.
00:50:28.000The problem with that is even though we do not know the exact mechanisms of muscle growth, we do know that some lactic acid is needed, but too much lactic acid is destructive.
00:50:45.000So what Selyanov did is he figured out is after this kind of set, you have to rest for 5 to 10 minutes.
00:50:52.000And it sounds for people, it's a very hard mental thing to do.
00:50:55.000So here I am going for this massive burn and I have to wait for 5 to 10 minutes.
00:51:28.000Because even though there are explosive elements there as well, but it's also very much there's that static element, static endurance.
00:51:34.000And one of my strong first certified instructors, Roger from the UK, I had him follow this protocol before he and his crew rode across the Atlantic.
00:51:47.000And he did much better after most people and was much happier, if you can be happier, rolling across the Atlantic.
00:51:53.000So for rowing, for wrestling, for bodybuilding, for some people who cannot do anything else.
00:53:27.000Then you walk around for a minute, you do the push-ups.
00:53:30.000Then you walk around, you do something else.
00:53:32.000So you're making good use of the time.
00:53:34.000You're just not revisiting the same exercise.
00:53:36.000So instead of taking 10 minutes in between any workout at all, you would take just a couple minutes in between and then do like push-ups and then do something that's non-related to that.
00:53:57.000So those muscles are recovered, but physiologically, you're still getting this constant state of exercise, or at least fairly constant.
00:54:05.000What's the lowest amount of break in between an exercise you recommend?
00:54:09.000That would be, that's the guidelines, Selyanov's guidelines, about five minutes of the rest is active for the same exercise I'm talking about.
00:55:30.000All this stuff is so interesting because it's so obviously, I mean, it makes sense, but it's just not the method that anyone is accustomed to.
00:55:42.000You know, you would be surprised that's not necessarily true.
00:55:47.000If you look at the top coaches, if you look at top athletes who don't necessarily advertise what they're doing, That's not the case.
00:57:16.000I like the fact that they understand the concept of general physical preparation, which means you have to train multiple different qualities.
00:57:24.000I would not go about it the way they do it, and let me explain to you why.
00:59:28.000Well, we know that these various systems in your body have inertia.
00:59:34.000So, for instance, notice that when you're running hard and you stopped, your heart's still beating hard, and then maybe 10 seconds after, there's a sudden drop right there.
00:59:46.000So the Germans figured out if you get your heart rate up to about 85-90%, which is...
00:59:51.000It's hard, but it's still not maximal.
00:59:55.000And then you switch to walking or jogging, so the heart is still beating, and so this extra volume of blood is moving, and it stretches the heart.
01:00:57.000Because that interferes with the blood flow.
01:01:02.000It's something called afterload versus preload.
01:01:05.000The heart gets thicker instead of the heart gets stretched and bigger.
01:01:09.000So it's not the optimal way to train the heart.
01:01:12.000You can, again, the simple way you can use...
01:01:19.000Dynamic exercise, an interval type training, or repeat training in this case, to train your heart is to do an exercise that's dynamic in nature to raise your heart rate to about, let's say, 80-90%,
01:01:35.000which would be 80-90%, it would be where you can say maybe a couple words.
01:04:02.000So what we're looking for Instead of trying to trash the muscle with acid, we are trying to train in a way to produce less acid.
01:04:17.000And then only before the competition, right before the competition, a couple of weeks out, you do a couple of smokers like that to get yourself used to that thing.
01:04:27.000So the way we develop mitochondria, which means make your muscle oxidative, make your muscle enduring and not polluting, In slow fibers, it's simply moving right below an aerobic threshold.
01:04:42.000So an aerobic threshold, it's that intensity at which you, you know, acid is accumulating just up to a certain point and stays in that steady state, and you can keep disposing of that for a while, for quite a while.
01:04:58.000As soon as you go above it, very rapidly, you crash.
01:05:03.000So Running right below the anaerobic threshold is the primary training method for endurance athletes.
01:05:15.000And how do you know that you ran the threshold?
01:05:21.000And it's very interesting that endurance athletes, even though we're not necessarily well educated, they kind of tend to gravitate through that intensity.
01:05:31.000And so what happens is we are producing just small amounts of acid.
01:05:36.000And the body finally is able to, you know, produce less and less.
01:07:58.000So we're trying to sustain that same level of performance for 40 minutes, let's say.
01:08:03.000So that's an example of how we develop mitochondria and fast-witch fibers.
01:08:09.000And the same thing we can do with kettlebell swings, the same thing you can do working in a heavy bag and so on and so forth.
01:08:17.000Now, CrossFit, to circle back around to that, what do they do that you feel, you said there's a lot of good things they do, they get people moving, they introduce people to all these different exercise routines.
01:10:24.000So you do these different CrossFit-specific, competition-specific exercises in this particular manner where you're able to sustain it again for 40 minutes.
01:10:33.000Then, pardon me, closer to the competition, you start doing what in track is called peaking.
01:10:45.000When you're running, let's say, 400 meters or 800 meters, athletes, when they train in the off-season, they train largely aerobically.
01:10:51.000Even though their distances are shorter, they're still not trying to trash themselves.
01:10:56.000But we do know that even if you develop your mitochondria, if you do it correctly, and suddenly you throw yourself in an acid bath, your body's going to be unpleasantly surprised.
01:11:09.000So what you need to do is you need to model that.
01:11:13.000So what's going to happen is A couple of weeks before the competition, once a week, you would pretty much do something similar to the competition, like a wad or whatever.
01:11:26.000And this will accomplish several things.
01:11:30.000One is it will upregulate your buffers.
01:11:34.000So your body produces baking soda pretty much to cancel out the acid.
01:11:46.000And in addition, you also upregulate your glycolytic enzymes, which you also want for competition.
01:11:52.000And again, they're very quick to develop, very quick to lose as well.
01:11:57.000So finally, there is such a thing as heart and respiration rate modeling, which pretty much means that you're going to be sucking wind, and if you're not used to sucking wind, it's not going to feel good.
01:12:10.000Your diaphragm is going to spasm and not so good.
01:12:15.000The purpose of peaking is to get yourself in kind of a simulated competition situation where the acid is high enough to make your body adapt to it, which adapts fast, and to make yourself comfortable with high heart rates and breathing.
01:14:39.000But you will find, to your surprise, that if you do swings powerfully and if you do dips or push-ups powerfully, chances are you're not going to lose your chin-ups.
01:14:52.000What is general training versus specific training?
01:14:56.000So in Russian sports science, there is a concept of general training versus special training.
01:15:01.000Special means sports specific, pretty much.
01:15:04.000So the general training can be strength, can be something else, gives you foundation for everything else.
01:15:10.000And it's characterized by a high degree of carryover.
01:15:14.000So for example, if you decide to do barbell squats, you know for a fact that you're gonna jump higher, you're gonna run faster, you're gonna hit harder, and so on and so forth.
01:15:26.000If you decide to go leg extensions, you can be sure that you're going to get better at leg extensions.
01:15:56.000One of the things that I noticed that I thought was really weird was when I started doing kettlebells, things that I wasn't doing, I got stronger at.
01:16:21.000We call this the what-the-hell effect.
01:16:23.000So that type of carryover, some of it we can't understand, some of it we can't explain, some of it we can't.
01:16:30.000But yeah, we've had the kettlebell swing, for example, increase the performance of world champion powerlifters and top marathon runners at the same time.
01:17:03.000So we use this pressurized breathing that increases your strength on exhalation, so that pretty much increases your strength at any kind of exertion, whether it's punching or lifting.
01:17:14.000And at the same time, we are also training our muscles, that inspiration muscles, inhalation muscles as well.
01:17:22.000And so developing these muscles is really important for your performance.
01:19:50.000People like to say, well, soreness is just caused by eccentric loading, and that's it.
01:19:55.000It has nothing to do with lactic acid.
01:19:56.000Well, eccentric loading does contribute to that, absolutely, but acid does as well.
01:20:01.000It doesn't literally burn holes in your muscle, but it does stimulate lysosomes, something that kind of eats up defective components of the cell to function.
01:20:10.000And you also have this spike of free radicals, and so that free radicals damage cell membranes as well.
01:20:17.000So, with what we do, we try to, and plus there's other stuff happening, like body starts producing ammonia, which is toxic, and depletes your ATP. So all those things start going, they're really sideways.
01:20:30.000So I think the nature of what you do with kettlebells, especially if you use the correct protocol, is you just optimize this metabolic environment to get exactly what you want.
01:20:43.000But there are some other things too, like in your case for pressing and for dips, I challenge anybody to find a pressing exercise that's biomechanically more perfect for the shoulder than the kettlebell military press.
01:23:23.000And he's sitting around rolling his butt in the foam roller and then he does some other weird voodoo and...
01:23:29.000You know, if he's injured and if he got a prescription from his physical therapist or doctor, power to you, buddy.
01:23:35.000But if not, and then finally he's going to spend 10 minutes doing some little nonsense, get his heart rate up, and between sets he's going to be updating his profile or whatever.
01:23:49.000I'm even going to tell you, even doing any of the corrective work, something that you need to do, you should even separate it from your training.
01:23:57.000Don't dishonor the lifting platform by throwing a foam roller on it.
01:24:48.000When you see gyms like mine that have all this equipment, all these different things, do you look at that as like that's excessive or unnecessary?
01:26:21.000Well, first of all, provided in the absence of medical restrictions, you just work around things.
01:26:26.000So you find things to do that work the area without aggravating it.
01:26:32.000That's kind of the age-old prescription for what you want to do.
01:26:37.000But I'm telling you that a lot of things we do are allowing a lot of people to get back in the game, people who have been really injured before.
01:26:47.000And I can tell you that the techniques we use, the strong first kettlebell techniques and some other techniques, we have supporters amongst top healthcare professionals, people like Professor Stuart McGill, who is a top spine biomechanist in the world and who works with The elite of athletes and also the most broken down people.
01:27:07.000Greg Cook, who's a top physical therapist, people like that.
01:27:10.000So we have a very good track record of keeping people healthy.
01:27:14.000I like this old expression from George, the Russian Lion Hackenschmidt, strength cannot be divorced from health.
01:28:30.000The body is a complex system, but I think this particular silo is worse than others.
01:28:37.000It's just so nonlinear and it's just so difficult to figure this out.
01:28:40.000Biological variability is so confusing too.
01:28:42.000With one person, the diet would be optimal.
01:28:44.000The other person, it would be terrible.
01:28:46.000You know, I think what we should do is focus, whether it's in diet or in training, we should try to focus on things that are more universal.
01:28:54.000So, for example, in terms of longevity, Dr. Nick Lane, who's a mitochondrial researcher, he made a very interesting point.
01:29:02.000He said, right now, for longevity, so many efforts are directed at the genetic engineering, manipulation, whatever, fooling around, trying to make this really, really customized.
01:29:15.000And he said, you know what's really interesting?
01:29:16.000Why don't we try to focus on something that's been known to work not just for any individual, it works for pretty much every species, which is mitochondrial health.
01:29:27.000And he says that if we find a way of extending the lifespan to 130 years old, He's pretty sure it's going to come from mitochondrial health.
01:29:37.000And the stimuli for mitochondrial health are pretty much well known.
01:29:43.000Well, there may be some more down the road, but now we do know.
01:29:46.000So, for example, in terms of Nutrition, that's fasting.
01:29:52.000In terms of exercise, it is both aerobic steady-state exercise and that type of work for fast fibers that I told you about, anti-glycolytic training.
01:32:52.000Hormesis is pretty much resistance against stuff.
01:32:54.000So it's pretty much mild doses of poison that you take to make yourself stronger.
01:32:59.000So that's most likely what these things are good for.
01:33:06.000But anytime you hear about antioxidants, this, antioxidants, that, it's unless they're prescribed by a doctor to a particular patient, a patient, antioxidant supplementation might even cause cancer.
01:33:39.000Within the last few years, people are eating only animal products.
01:33:43.000And the great benefit that some people have had is people with autoimmune issues like skin conditions, eczema, things along those lines, it seems to cure it up.
01:36:10.000And, you know, creatine is definitely, supplementation is not my specialty either, but I can tell you creatine is one of those supplements that definitely has been tested extensively.
01:36:18.000And while not for everybody, it does work well.
01:36:20.000Yes, it's also been proven as a nootropic, which I think is fascinating.
01:37:24.000You know, heart attacks jump up some number worldwide, something in the neighborhood of 20-plus percent when they do daylight savings time and people lose an hour of sleep.
01:37:40.000I was just in Arizona, and one of the first things I said to them on stage, I was like, I'm so happy that you guys don't follow this stupid shit.
01:39:23.000Definitely is really good if you have a chance to do that.
01:39:28.000Other things that are very good if they're used correctly is hypoxia, hypercapnia, pretty much breathing less but doing it in the correct manner.
01:39:39.000But there's something that you need to keep in mind when you start getting really fancy in all these different recovery modalities, all these different supplements and massages and whatever, whatever.
01:39:49.000That was also, I believe, Professor Vorobyov who made a point of that, that accelerating the recovery, first of all, accelerating the rate of adaptation is just not normal.
01:40:00.000And again, it's going to be less stable.
01:40:02.000And second, that just makes your body less able to handle it by itself.
01:40:06.000So it's like spoiling yourself with it.
01:40:09.000I think, so again, not my specialty, but I think it should be used judiciously.
01:40:15.000And I also think that too many people are starting to get into the fancy cryotherapy this or fancy supplement or machine that before they've just taken care of basics.
01:40:26.000So what are the basics if you're, let's say that you are, okay, for an athlete or for a normal person.
01:40:33.000So what are the basics for health for a normal person?
01:40:37.000Obviously, we discussed earlier, you want to have type 2 fibers and mitochondria in them when you're older.
01:40:42.000So that means you've got to lift heavier fast.
01:43:52.000There is a very interesting phenomenon that is called RMED. What does it stand for?
01:43:59.000Something about acute relaxation reaction to stress.
01:44:05.000I don't recall the acronym exactly how it goes.
01:44:09.000So hypothermia, heat is amongst the stimulus, hypoxia as well, that allows you to develop a reaction in your body that in response to stress you're going to be more relaxed.
01:44:22.000So this is kind of an interesting thing.
01:44:24.000So it's definitely a healthy thing, definitely.
01:44:28.000Well, listen, man, we've taken up a lot of your time, and I appreciate you very much, and I appreciate all the work that you've done.
01:44:33.000And like I said, I've been a big fan for a long time.
01:44:57.000My most recent book is The Quick and the Dead, Total Training for the Advanced Minimalists, but that is for the Advanced Minimalists.
01:45:06.000So I presume that's not for the majority of listeners.
01:45:09.000So I also, about the same time, came out with an updated edition of my Kettlebell Simple and Sinister, and that, I firmly believe, is the book for most people, whether it's Grandma Betty or Ranger Joe,