The Joe Rogan Experience - January 22, 2020


Joe Rogan Experience #1417 - Kevin Ross


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 32 minutes

Words per Minute

174.25693

Word Count

26,519

Sentence Count

2,232

Misogynist Sentences

20


Summary

In this episode, we are joined by Kevin Ross, a long time member of the UFC Welterweight and Light Heavyweight division. We talk about how to prepare your shin for a fight, how to deal with shin injuries, and how to prevent them from happening in the first place. We also talk about some of the most common injuries that we see in the UFC and what to do about them. We hope you enjoy this episode and don't forget to subscribe to our channel! It helps spread the word about the podcast and keep us in touch with the people who need to hear it! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe, Like, and Share to stay up to date with what's going on in the world of MMA and all things UFC and Mixed Martial Arts! -Jon Bones Jones and Jon "The Notorious" Bones discuss his recent injury and recovery from UFC 246, and talk about his plans for UFC 246 and UFC 246. We also discuss how he plans to return to the UFC in the future and what he's looking forward to in his next fight, and much more. Thanks for listening and support the podcast, Jon and Jon's efforts to make this podcast a better place for you guys! . . . Thank you Jon Jones for being a part of the MMA and Muay Thai family. - Jon Bones Jones - Thank you for supporting the podcast! Jon Bones is a great guy. Jon talks about his training and being a great human being a good human being, and a great fighter, and we hope you all enjoy this podcast and we all have a great time in this episode. Thank you all of your support and we really appreciate it. . Jon gives us some great advice, Jon is a lot of love and we appreciate you, Jon does a lot, Jon talks a lot more than that, so much, so thank you for being kind and he's a great person, Jon's advice is so much more than you can do it, we appreciate it, Jon s advice is really good, so we really helps us, we really appreciates it, really really well, really good guy, really appreciate you. , Jon is amazing, really does, really means it's good stuff, Jon really does it... Jon does it all, thank you, really, really much, etc., etc.


Transcript

00:00:03.000 Kevin Ross, bringer of gifts!
00:00:05.000 What's so good, man?
00:00:06.000 How you doing?
00:00:06.000 Good to see you, brother.
00:00:07.000 Thank you very much for that bag.
00:00:09.000 Oh, you're very welcome.
00:00:09.000 It's very cool.
00:00:10.000 People, I'll let you know, Kevin brought a giant heavy bag filled with sand that has to weigh north of 200 pounds.
00:00:19.000 Oh, yeah.
00:00:19.000 I think it's about 250. Yeah, it was a lot of fun getting that in my car by myself.
00:00:25.000 Is that your preferred method for conditioning your shins?
00:00:28.000 For sure.
00:00:28.000 For sure.
00:00:29.000 You know, the thing with shin conditioning, a lot of people do.
00:00:33.000 You know, they smack themselves in the shin with bottles and kind of stupid things like that.
00:00:37.000 But you're not really creating...
00:00:41.000 What you need to, which is overall conditioning, overall strengthening of the bone.
00:00:50.000 All you're really doing is deadening little spots in your nerves, but that's the worst thing you can do without strengthening your bones.
00:00:56.000 You're deadening the nerves, but not strengthening the bone overall.
00:00:59.000 And if you're not doing that, You're going to think your bone's a lot stronger than it is, but it can't handle the impact.
00:01:05.000 So with a sandbag, you're covering much more surface area and applying it in a realistic situation where you're able to throw kicks repeatedly at this thing.
00:01:16.000 And what you really want to do is do it to a degree that it's...
00:01:20.000 Causing a certain amount of pain, but you're able to do this daily with repetition because that's how you continually develop, just like getting stronger at anything.
00:01:30.000 It doesn't happen overnight.
00:01:32.000 You've got to just do this every day, just at the end of your session, knock out a few kicks, and then again tomorrow and again the next day, and you slowly and steadily are able to go harder and harder and develop the strength and conditioning in your shins.
00:01:48.000 So the idea is that you're making like these little tiny micro fractures, right?
00:01:51.000 Yeah, for sure.
00:01:52.000 And yeah, like I said, you want to be able to cover a good surface area so you're hitting it all kind of at once as opposed to like little spots, which is what happens when you just whack it with a bat or something like that.
00:02:06.000 My experience with whacking it with a bat is everybody kind of quits.
00:02:10.000 You're like, hey, I'm going to condition my shins.
00:02:11.000 And then they just go, what the fuck am I doing?
00:02:13.000 And they stop doing it.
00:02:14.000 Well, the thing too with when you're able to kick like that is you can kind of slowly build up.
00:02:20.000 You know, you start a little bit lightly and develop a little bit stronger.
00:02:24.000 And you kind of create a little bit of a crease.
00:02:26.000 And, you know, as you get going, you...
00:02:30.000 Your brain can kind of wrap itself around it a little bit better and then you start going harder and harder and by the end of your 5-10 minute session, you're putting some serious weight into that and you're not noticing it as much.
00:02:42.000 Yeah, we were talking about your knee, that you had a fracture in your knee that you didn't realize you had.
00:02:49.000 It's weird.
00:02:50.000 The thing that disturbs me maybe the most in kickboxing, and I've only seen it a few times, is when someone checks a kick and their leg snaps in half.
00:02:58.000 Like Tyrone Spong when he fought Gokhan Saki.
00:03:01.000 Or Anderson Silva when he fought Chris Weidman, same thing.
00:03:03.000 That snap of when the shin gives out.
00:03:08.000 Can you prevent that from doing this?
00:03:11.000 Obviously, it's one of those just freak things that happens.
00:03:15.000 You know, clearly with those guys, you can have the most conditioned shins in the world, but you catch them the wrong way at the wrong time.
00:03:23.000 They can happen, and it's rare, but it does happen, and it doesn't really matter how long you've been doing this, how strong your shins are.
00:03:30.000 Sometimes things just break.
00:03:32.000 I always wonder how many guys have little breaks and they don't know about it, too.
00:03:36.000 Probably a lot.
00:03:37.000 Yeah.
00:03:38.000 A lot, yeah.
00:03:38.000 Yeah, they said that's what happened with Anderson.
00:03:40.000 That Anderson threw a kick and he broke it before that.
00:03:44.000 Like he felt something was wrong and then when he threw that second kick and it snapped in half.
00:03:49.000 That's why it did that.
00:03:50.000 Yeah, that makes sense.
00:03:52.000 Well, Weidman was checking it perfect.
00:03:54.000 He was checking it right at the top of his knee.
00:03:56.000 Yeah, and that's a big thing with fighting.
00:04:00.000 A lot of people tend to...
00:04:04.000 Just blindly pick their shin up as opposed to paying attention to where it is on your shin that it's hitting.
00:04:10.000 Just like when you're kicking, you need to pay attention to what piece of your leg you're hitting with, which piece of your shin you're checking with, and the higher up on your shin it is, the harder it's going to be.
00:04:22.000 Yeah.
00:04:41.000 Yeah, it's a...
00:04:43.000 Shin-on-shin contact is such a brutal thing.
00:04:47.000 Like, I think everybody should experience it once.
00:04:49.000 Yeah.
00:04:50.000 You know, just crack.
00:04:51.000 Aye!
00:04:51.000 That...
00:04:52.000 Yeah, and you know, the funny thing is, it doesn't matter how long you've done this for, we watch these fights and assume that they don't feel pain and that it doesn't bother them.
00:05:02.000 But even guys with hundreds and hundreds of fights, you see them the next day and they're gimping around pretty good.
00:05:07.000 You know, we have this idea in our brains that eventually you're going to get to a point when you just don't feel pain and it doesn't bother you.
00:05:14.000 Eventually you realize that never happens.
00:05:16.000 And it's better to get that out of your head now.
00:05:19.000 Muay Thai and kickboxing and anything that's bone on bone, it's going to be painful.
00:05:24.000 And that's part of the art of it.
00:05:25.000 You learn how to place your kicks better and pay attention to what you're doing.
00:05:30.000 And yeah, of course, you develop your shin conditioning and that kind of thing.
00:05:35.000 But it always hurts.
00:05:36.000 It's always going to hurt.
00:05:38.000 It's such a brutally effective way to fight, and it's so interesting that Thailand perfected that.
00:05:44.000 I've always been fascinated by that.
00:05:46.000 When you think about the entire world, it's an enormous world, and people have been fighting in this enormous world from the beginning of time.
00:05:55.000 And this one island, they said, hey, I got an idea.
00:05:59.000 Yeah.
00:06:00.000 Well, it's a cultural thing over there.
00:06:02.000 You know, it's part of their upbringing.
00:06:04.000 It's like baseball over here or soccer in other parts of the world where everybody kind of does it to one extent or the other.
00:06:12.000 And, you know, clearly if you're doing this from a time you're a child, Particularly when it's a job like it is for them over there.
00:06:19.000 It's more than just for fun.
00:06:22.000 It's not for fun.
00:06:23.000 It's like, this is how I survive.
00:06:24.000 It's this or working in the fields.
00:06:27.000 And that completely changes their mentality about it.
00:06:32.000 And that's why when you go there, it's like obviously the skill for sure, but the mentality and the reasons for doing this, it's so different.
00:06:40.000 It's so different.
00:06:41.000 Yeah, and they start so young and they're basically sent to these camps and they start fighting like, you know, before they're like 10 years old.
00:06:51.000 Oftentimes they start fighting.
00:06:52.000 Yeah, a lot of these kids, you know, their families send them to these camps and that's where they're raised.
00:06:58.000 You know, they're raised in a gym to be fighters and to work for the gyms.
00:07:04.000 I mean, that's really what they're doing is they're working.
00:07:07.000 You know, they're getting money to send back to their families and They're not doing this for fun.
00:07:12.000 They're not doing this as a hobby.
00:07:14.000 I've always been fascinated by the way that tie spar as well because I think it's really interesting that given that they do fight so often and their livelihood depends on it and that it is not a game they've really figured out a bunch of things and one of the things they figured out is Hit the pads hard,
00:07:32.000 hit the bag hard, spar light.
00:07:34.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:07:35.000 There's give and take to everything that we do and we're trying to maximize our learning and minimize the damage or the risk of injury that we're taking.
00:07:49.000 We have the opposite approach here in America.
00:07:51.000 We just beat the shit out of each other, and that's good.
00:07:55.000 That's how you're going to get better.
00:07:56.000 But you don't really develop when you're going hard like that.
00:07:59.000 You're learning how to be tough, and you're learning how to take damage, and you're learning how to be in the fire like that, which is important.
00:08:06.000 But you're not really developing.
00:08:08.000 When you're playing, when you're practicing, when you're not thinking about getting injured or knocked out, you're able to...
00:08:16.000 Learn and apply new things and new techniques and practice things that you normally wouldn't.
00:08:22.000 It's like when you're worried about getting hurt, you're only going to focus on the things that you're really good at.
00:08:27.000 You're not going to try these different approaches and that's what really limits a lot of our development.
00:08:34.000 You see a lot of fighters, their ability kind of levels off to a certain degree and they don't continually develop as their careers go on and they also don't It doesn't last very long either because of the amount of damage their bodies and their brains are taking.
00:08:50.000 Each one of us only has a finite number of shots to the head we can take and shots of the body we can take.
00:08:56.000 Do you want to use those in the gym or do you want to use those in the ring?
00:09:01.000 I think it's really about finding a good balance between that.
00:09:05.000 In the beginning, all I did was just go crazy and spar super hard six days a week leading all the way up to the fight.
00:09:12.000 Six days a week, you were sparring hard, really?
00:09:14.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:09:15.000 I mean, the smallest guy I had to work with coming up was probably 20 pounds bigger than me.
00:09:20.000 And in a lot of ways, this helped me develop and gain a lot of strength and confidence and ability to...
00:09:28.000 Take that kind of punishment, but it also did a lot of detrimental things, a lot of stupid injuries, a lot of damage.
00:09:34.000 And over the years, I've come to develop and get more onto the Thai approach of things and practice and playing and finding when the time to go hard is and when the time to learn and develop is and what's counterproductive and what isn't.
00:09:51.000 How do you make that distinction?
00:09:52.000 Like, how do you know when's the time to go hard?
00:09:54.000 You don't.
00:09:55.000 You don't really.
00:09:56.000 I mean, everything that we do is a process of trial and error, you know, and I think once you kind of understand that you can think clearly and apply the things you need to in the midst of that firefight, which,
00:10:11.000 you know, is really what shuts a lot of people down in the beginning.
00:10:14.000 They can't process the information that's happening because it's so intense and And that is why it's important to kind of have that and have that fight-like scenario in the gym.
00:10:26.000 But once you've done that and you've had the experience and all of that, I think it's so much more beneficial to start going towards the other direction, especially if you want to stay in this sport for A good amount of time and not take unnecessary damage for really no purpose whatsoever.
00:10:46.000 To me, it should be the exception and not the rule.
00:10:50.000 Have those hard training sessions in once in a while, especially if you can get work in with people that you're not used to, because obviously when you fight, you don't know what they're really doing in there.
00:11:00.000 It's like working with a stranger.
00:11:02.000 In the gym, we know each other so well that we tend to Just work on those things and not practice.
00:11:08.000 But that's how we develop.
00:11:11.000 And if we're not doing that, we're really limiting ourselves.
00:11:15.000 It's got to be difficult to find the right balance in terms of what gym you're training at.
00:11:20.000 Where are you training at these days?
00:11:22.000 I'm down in San Diego now.
00:11:23.000 I moved down there two years ago at the boxing club.
00:11:27.000 Oh, is that Artem?
00:11:29.000 Yeah, yeah, Shoroshkin.
00:11:30.000 Levin's place?
00:11:31.000 Yeah, and Levin is there too.
00:11:34.000 Artem, Shoroshkin, the small Artem, we met almost 15 years ago.
00:11:40.000 He was actually the janitor at this gym.
00:11:43.000 Had just moved from Russia and now he owns three of them and is this amazing gym owner and business person, which is just an unbelievably fascinating story that he has and an inspirational thing and But yeah,
00:11:58.000 that's where I'm at now, and I kind of bounce back between San Diego and out here.
00:12:03.000 Gina lives out here, so I kind of go back and forth.
00:12:07.000 Now that place is, it's called the Boxing Club, right?
00:12:10.000 Yeah.
00:12:10.000 But it's Muay Thai.
00:12:11.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:12:12.000 There's another gym out here called Boxing Works, which is the one I train out in Torrance, and same thing, it's a Muay Thai gym, and both these gyms are Muay Thai and kickboxing related, yet they're boxing.
00:12:23.000 Why do they call it Boxing Works?
00:12:24.000 Is it just to get people to join?
00:12:26.000 I don't really know.
00:12:27.000 You know, I don't really know why that happened or how that happened.
00:12:30.000 But yeah, it's kind of ironic that both those places are seemingly boxing gyms and they're not at all.
00:12:36.000 What made you make the move down there?
00:12:38.000 A lot of things.
00:12:39.000 I'd always planned on ending up in San Diego.
00:12:42.000 I mean, that's the one place.
00:12:43.000 I love it down there.
00:12:44.000 Yeah, and I've lived all over this country since, you know, I've moved all over the place since I was a little kid, and San Diego was just where I always planned I'd be one day.
00:12:54.000 I didn't think I'd move down there until I was done fighting.
00:12:57.000 But through the process of a lot of things and, you know, transitions in my life, it just kind of was the right time to go.
00:13:04.000 It's the perfect balance.
00:13:05.000 Because it's like a city, but it's not a big city.
00:13:08.000 And it's got a lot of beauty.
00:13:11.000 Like, there's beautiful hills and the ocean is beautiful.
00:13:15.000 But it's not that crowded.
00:13:17.000 It's like, it's alright.
00:13:18.000 I shouldn't even be talking about it.
00:13:21.000 I don't want people to move there.
00:13:22.000 Once you go there, it's tough to want to be anywhere else.
00:13:26.000 The energy that's there, the way that people are, you have all those things that are in other cities, but everything that's perfect in one place, it's very unique in that sense.
00:13:39.000 I think there's a lot of positive aspects to the military presence there, too.
00:13:43.000 Because I think there's so many disciplined people down there.
00:13:45.000 There's a lot of health-conscious, fitness-oriented, and disciplined people.
00:13:50.000 Because of the fact there's such a giant military presence down there, there's so many people that are involved in the military, and so many people that are involved in the military have a lot of discipline, train a lot, are interested in martial arts in particular.
00:14:03.000 I think it flavors that community.
00:14:07.000 Yeah, it's a wonderful place.
00:14:09.000 I love it.
00:14:10.000 I love it.
00:14:10.000 Yeah, don't go there.
00:14:11.000 The problem is the fucking drive.
00:14:13.000 Woo, that drive.
00:14:14.000 Yeah.
00:14:14.000 Woo, every time I work in San Diego, I leave here at like 8 in the morning.
00:14:17.000 Oh, yeah.
00:14:18.000 Yeah, just like, if I have to work there at night, I'm like, let me just fucking get it out of the way.
00:14:22.000 Yeah.
00:14:23.000 Get that four-hour drive out of the way early.
00:14:25.000 Yeah.
00:14:26.000 You know, like for me, if I leave at around 10, 10.30, I can usually get there in about two hours before traffic hits, but there's this really short window of time, but if you miss it, It's a rough one.
00:14:38.000 Yeah, my friend Bill Burr takes a helicopter down there.
00:14:40.000 Yeah.
00:14:41.000 Well, he's been taking helicopter lessons.
00:14:42.000 We should all get some helicopters and it'll be a lot easier to get around.
00:14:46.000 Well, he doesn't have his own, but he takes lessons.
00:14:49.000 Yeah.
00:14:49.000 And so, you know, he just hires one and he'll actually fly.
00:14:53.000 And he has a co-pilot who's like, you know, flight instructor, explains everything to him, make sure he's doing everything right.
00:14:59.000 Yeah.
00:14:59.000 And then you're down there in an hour.
00:15:01.000 Yeah.
00:15:02.000 Oh, yeah.
00:15:03.000 Have you ever been in a helicopter?
00:15:04.000 I haven't.
00:15:05.000 They kind of freak me out a little bit.
00:15:07.000 They just seem so sketchy.
00:15:09.000 They're sketchy.
00:15:10.000 But if they're well-maintained, like anything else, he took me up in one and we flew over Van Nuys.
00:15:16.000 It was crazy flying over Malibu because we did it right after the fires.
00:15:20.000 So you got to see all the houses that were burnt to the ground.
00:15:23.000 Nuts, man.
00:15:24.000 And like Point Doom.
00:15:25.000 So these just huge estates that are probably worth $25 million just burnt to the fucking ground.
00:15:31.000 And so many of them, man.
00:15:33.000 Malibu lost like 600 structures.
00:15:36.000 That's wild, man.
00:15:37.000 It's hard to wrap your brain around the damage that was done.
00:15:41.000 And then I saw this scale which showed what the California fires are and what the Australian fires are.
00:15:48.000 Oh, my God.
00:15:48.000 And that's just...
00:15:50.000 My friend Tom is there right now and he said they had to divert his plane.
00:15:54.000 He was supposed to fly into Melbourne and they diverted it to Sydney because they couldn't fly through the smoke.
00:16:00.000 70% of the country is covered in smoke.
00:16:03.000 And a good percentage of those fires were started by people just fucking around like throwing cigarettes into the bush.
00:16:09.000 Crazy.
00:16:10.000 Yeah.
00:16:11.000 They said half a billion animals are dead.
00:16:14.000 Jeez.
00:16:15.000 Yeah.
00:16:16.000 That's terrible.
00:16:16.000 It's insane.
00:16:17.000 And they said that the koala bear, like, so much of their habitat is destroyed.
00:16:22.000 They're in, like, grave danger.
00:16:23.000 Yeah.
00:16:24.000 Yeah, I mean, like, it's something about, like, 80% of their range has been destroyed.
00:16:29.000 Jeez.
00:16:30.000 Yeah, it's crazy.
00:16:31.000 You know, koala bears only eat, like...
00:16:33.000 I think they only eat eucalyptus trees.
00:16:35.000 Yeah.
00:16:35.000 It's all they eat, which is kind of fucked up.
00:16:38.000 They found what works.
00:16:39.000 Yeah, they're into one thing.
00:16:40.000 It's like a dude who only eats blueberries.
00:16:42.000 You know, like, bro, what if they run out of blueberries?
00:16:44.000 Yeah.
00:16:45.000 Yeah, I don't think they can eat other things.
00:16:47.000 I think that's like their digestive system has evolved to eat eucalyptus leaves.
00:16:51.000 Yeah.
00:16:52.000 Yeah.
00:16:53.000 That's horrible.
00:16:54.000 It's fucked up, man.
00:16:55.000 When you look at the map of where the fires are, it's crazy.
00:16:58.000 It's like if we had multiple states, like Texas, Wyoming, Nevada, all on fire at the same time.
00:17:05.000 That's what it's like over there.
00:17:07.000 Yeah, it's hard to wrap your mind around it.
00:17:08.000 It is.
00:17:09.000 Have you ever been when there's a fire here?
00:17:13.000 Not close enough to really feel like that, but around and even just them in the general area, I mean, you realize how quickly they can spread and just take over everything.
00:17:26.000 It's so devastating.
00:17:28.000 I've been evacuated three times from where I live, and this last one, the houses across the street from my house burnt to the ground.
00:17:35.000 And then two houses down, one of those houses burnt down.
00:17:39.000 On my block, ten houses are gone.
00:17:41.000 Wow.
00:17:41.000 Yeah, it's fucking nuts, man.
00:17:43.000 I went to walk the dog today, and we're walking by these just empty lots where these people used to live.
00:17:49.000 You know what?
00:17:50.000 Brightside, nobody died.
00:17:52.000 Hopefully, everybody had insurance.
00:17:53.000 But it's just humbling when you see it coming, because everybody's like, the firefighters are doing their best.
00:18:01.000 They're dumping water.
00:18:02.000 They're doing their best to create fire breaks and everything they can, but there's nothing they can do.
00:18:07.000 It's so big.
00:18:08.000 I mean, it was so big.
00:18:09.000 It was just coming over the top of the mountain.
00:18:11.000 You looked all the way to the left and all the way to the right, just nothing but fire.
00:18:14.000 And these guys are just constantly circling over and dropping water down and doing their best, but it's like, it was crazy.
00:18:21.000 And that was nothing compared to up north, north in California.
00:18:24.000 North in California, people died on the fucking highway.
00:18:26.000 They couldn't get out of the way of it.
00:18:27.000 That was terrible, man.
00:18:28.000 That was so bad.
00:18:29.000 You know, I was up there probably about five years ago when these were going on and they were just popping up everywhere and there were some that were pretty close to the gym and I'm having to like watch and see where they're at because they were close to the apartments we lived in.
00:18:42.000 I'm like, we might have to like get out of here because they just pop all over the place and they hop from one place to the other with the wind and everything.
00:18:49.000 Henry Cejudo almost burnt to death.
00:18:51.000 You know the story about him?
00:18:52.000 He had to jump out the window barefoot, burnt the fuck out of his feet.
00:18:55.000 Like, he didn't even know what was going on.
00:18:57.000 He was sleeping.
00:18:58.000 And then all of a sudden, he's waking up.
00:19:00.000 He's like, what is happening?
00:19:01.000 And he looks out the window, and everything's on fire.
00:19:03.000 It got to him that quickly.
00:19:05.000 Scary shit, man.
00:19:07.000 But it's, you know, it's fucked up about it.
00:19:10.000 But we all had to go to, like, me and my neighbors and some friends of mine.
00:19:14.000 We all picked a hotel in town.
00:19:16.000 We all went together.
00:19:17.000 But there's like a weird camaraderie about when shit like that goes down where everybody was happy.
00:19:24.000 Yeah.
00:19:25.000 It's horrible that those things kind of happen and they really make you realize, like, what is important in life.
00:19:31.000 And, you know, it's the same thing, like, when you travel overseas and go to third world countries, like, they seem to have a very good understanding of what life should and is about.
00:19:40.000 And then we come here, we have everything.
00:19:43.000 Everyone has everything and everyone's complaining about everything and we're miserable and we're spoiled and that mentality is so unfortunate.
00:19:52.000 It's like the more you have, the more you have to complain about and forget what is important in this life.
00:19:58.000 It's weird that it takes something like that to jar you.
00:20:01.000 You should be able to learn from that and then carry that lesson.
00:20:05.000 But that lesson is like sand in your fingers, man.
00:20:08.000 How quickly after 9 or 11 or things like that, how long does it last?
00:20:14.000 And such a traumatic thing like that.
00:20:17.000 We have a week or two of, oh, America, let's get together and let's take care and love each other.
00:20:23.000 And then I forgot.
00:20:25.000 Yeah.
00:20:26.000 Well, I mean, to make an analogy with martial arts, one of the reasons why I enjoy being around martial artists and why most of my friends, a good percentage of my friends are martial artists, I feel like training all the time and getting humbled,
00:20:42.000 particularly in jujitsu, because you can get tapped out a lot and you just train and you get tapped out and you keep going.
00:20:50.000 It's not like getting knocked out.
00:20:52.000 It's not like, you know, you can only get...
00:20:54.000 Cracked in the head so many times in sparring, but you develop this kind of humility that is...
00:21:02.000 Everybody kind of understands it, and there's this feeling that you get where you understand...
00:21:10.000 When someone's trying to kill you all the time, like on a regular basis, some dude's trying to choke the fucking breath out of you, and someone's got their arm wrapped around your neck, like...
00:21:19.000 The rest of the world seems easier, you know?
00:21:22.000 And I almost feel like human beings are engineered through evolution.
00:21:28.000 We've sort of been designed through natural selection to learn how to survive difficult things.
00:21:35.000 And when the difficult things don't exist, we make things that aren't difficult, difficult.
00:21:40.000 Yeah, very much so.
00:21:41.000 For me, I feel that training and martial arts and fighting and all these things, it clears the static and the noise out of your life and it allows you to focus on the things that are important and not be so distracted by fluff and nothingness.
00:22:01.000 Even a day or two of not training, I feel that stuff seeping back in.
00:22:08.000 It's substantial.
00:22:09.000 I don't know how everyone's not running around shooting each other because just a few days of not doing this, I'm like, I want to kill somebody because I allow just the stresses of nothing to get it there.
00:22:20.000 To make this sound more consistent, just push that a little bit further, just because you're doing one of those cigarette things like, hello, I don't have a voice.
00:22:30.000 All right, how about that?
00:22:30.000 That's perfect.
00:22:32.000 How much longer do you think you're going to compete?
00:22:34.000 I have no idea, man.
00:22:36.000 How old are you now?
00:22:36.000 I'll be 40 this year.
00:22:38.000 Oh, shit.
00:22:39.000 Yeah.
00:22:39.000 That's the magic number.
00:22:40.000 You know, since the day I started, you know, I didn't start until I was 23. Yeah.
00:22:45.000 So let's tell your story because it's a fascinating story because I love a guy whose life is fucked up and then he figures something out and then becomes a role model.
00:22:56.000 And in a lot of ways, that's what you've done.
00:22:58.000 Yeah, it's a long story and I'm actually in the process of writing my autobiography right now, which I've been working on pretty consistently for the last five years.
00:23:10.000 Something that, you know, I really was doing it for myself in a lot of ways to have an understanding of the things that I've been through and the things that I've learned and processed and Acquired over these years, which is, you know,
00:23:25.000 in a lot of ways, it's been extremely rewarding doing all this, but it's also been very difficult, very painful and emotional going back through all these things that happened to me in my childhood and my upbringing and things that I'm,
00:23:40.000 even to this day, I'm still trying to process and understand a lot of.
00:23:47.000 And, um...
00:23:52.000 Where were we going with my story?
00:23:55.000 Well, your story of not starting until you're 23, and before that, too much partying.
00:24:00.000 Yeah, so...
00:24:03.000 To summarize a lot of this, you know, I grew up in a lot of different places, moved around a lot.
00:24:08.000 You know, my parents split up very early.
00:24:11.000 Me, my mother, and three, four brothers, sisters, you know, we basically lived in somebody's basement in the beginning.
00:24:21.000 And we're living on welfare and bouncing around from place to place and so much of that.
00:24:28.000 Shut me down emotionally.
00:24:30.000 When I was a kid, from what I'm told, I have really not much recollection of my childhood because I've blocked so much of this out.
00:24:39.000 That's why it's been really difficult for me to write this book because I don't really have many memories.
00:24:43.000 I have almost no memories of that time in my life where I felt like a child, that carefreeness of childhood.
00:24:52.000 I've had to talk to siblings and friends from back then and Look through photo albums and slowly things start coming together and you know that that's why a lot of this has been really therapeutic but I always loved fighting.
00:25:05.000 I always loved boxing and was very intrigued by it and martial arts you know Bruce Lee was always a hero of mine and But I hated violence coming up.
00:25:16.000 I hated it, but I was intrigued by it.
00:25:19.000 A really good friend of mine, we lived in Colorado for about a year or two, he would get into fights on a weekly basis in school, and I was fascinated by it.
00:25:28.000 I'm like, wow, you're so brave and so strong.
00:25:31.000 I felt like such a weak, I was very allowed weakness to overtake me throughout the events of my life.
00:25:42.000 I was very shy.
00:25:43.000 I didn't talk.
00:25:44.000 I was always athletic and that kind of thing.
00:25:47.000 But as far as confrontation and that, it just shut me down.
00:25:50.000 And I didn't like it.
00:25:51.000 It upset me a lot.
00:25:53.000 People would be angry with me.
00:25:56.000 So I had this strange dynamic where I was drawn to fighting and I was drawn to violence in one way, but I also hated it a lot and was scared by it.
00:26:06.000 Um, but, but over the years, you know, I thought about, I was like, oh, maybe I'll try boxing one day and that'd be really cool.
00:26:12.000 You know, I was fascinated watching two people in the ring and, and all these people are watching and they're there with each other, regardless of their skill level.
00:26:21.000 And then, you know, just thinking about what, what it must be like in there to do that, you know?
00:26:27.000 And, um, It fascinated me.
00:26:30.000 But again, like I said, I love martial arts, so I wanted to be able to kick people.
00:26:33.000 I wanted to be able to elbow people and knee people.
00:26:36.000 And I never saw any fighting that was like that, you know, as I was coming up.
00:26:41.000 I mean, you'd see taekwondo and karate and a lot of points sparring and that kind of thing and forms.
00:26:47.000 And, you know, even that I thought was fascinating, but I wanted to fight like boxers did.
00:26:54.000 And I just never really saw anything like that.
00:26:57.000 And one day, 94, this is right when we moved to Vegas, I was watching ESPN at like 2 in the morning, and they used to have Thai fights on once in a while.
00:27:08.000 And this fight came on.
00:27:09.000 I got this next fight is a Muay Thai fight between so and so.
00:27:13.000 And when that started, I was immediately hooked.
00:27:17.000 It hit something in me that just like lit me on fire.
00:27:21.000 I was like, this is everything that I've been looking for.
00:27:25.000 This is something so different.
00:27:26.000 And it just spoke to my soul.
00:27:29.000 And it fascinated me.
00:27:31.000 And I was like, if I am ever going to do this, that's going to be it.
00:27:33.000 It's going to be Muay Thai.
00:27:35.000 But...
00:27:36.000 You know, for various reasons.
00:27:38.000 It scared me.
00:27:39.000 One, I didn't know how I'd be able to afford it.
00:27:43.000 I didn't know if my parents would even let me.
00:27:45.000 And, you know, coming up the way I did, I was partying and drinking all the time.
00:27:50.000 Even at that, I mean, I started drinking when I was like 12 years old.
00:27:52.000 Holy shit.
00:27:53.000 Yeah.
00:27:54.000 And by the time I was probably 18, I was physically dependent alcoholic.
00:27:59.000 I had to drink every day in order to keep my nerves from shaking.
00:28:04.000 My hands would tremor.
00:28:07.000 How much were you drinking?
00:28:08.000 A lot.
00:28:09.000 A lot.
00:28:09.000 Every day I would drink.
00:28:11.000 Every day I would drink.
00:28:12.000 All day?
00:28:13.000 Throughout the day, a little bit.
00:28:15.000 At night, I would just be pounding 40s.
00:28:17.000 Fuck!
00:28:18.000 Constantly.
00:28:19.000 And that's all that I did.
00:28:22.000 That's all me and my friends did.
00:28:24.000 We would just drink.
00:28:25.000 We would drink every day.
00:28:28.000 How did you wean yourself off that?
00:28:31.000 Starting Muay Thai is what did it.
00:28:35.000 As I said, I learned about it in 94. Over the years, every once in a while, I'd see a fight and I'd be like, oh, I want to do this so bad.
00:28:44.000 In 98, I actually started calling around gyms in Vegas.
00:28:48.000 I was like, oh, maybe I'm going to find a place to do this.
00:28:51.000 For me, it was one of those things where if I'm going to do it, I want to do it right, and I want to do it to fight.
00:28:57.000 And if I'm going to do it to fight, what is the fastest way to get there?
00:29:01.000 And I was like, I need to take one-on-one lessons.
00:29:05.000 I wanted to learn from a Thai.
00:29:08.000 And that was not to say Americans or anybody else can't teach it, but I was like, if you're going to learn it, you might as well learn it from the source.
00:29:14.000 And the only place...
00:29:16.000 In Vegas that taught Muay Thai, one of the only places that even taught Muay Thai and definitely the only place that had Thai instructors was Master Toddy's gym.
00:29:24.000 And I called the gym, you know, went down and talked to one of the instructors.
00:29:29.000 And when he let me know how expensive it was going to be, I was like, there's just no way.
00:29:34.000 There's no way I'm going to be able to do this.
00:29:36.000 And for me, I also knew that if I am going to go after this, I'm going to need to stop drinking, stop partying, completely alter my entire existence.
00:29:48.000 I'm probably going to lose all my friends.
00:29:51.000 Everyone's going to laugh at me.
00:29:52.000 I didn't even know how serious I took myself.
00:29:55.000 I laugh at me when I say this.
00:29:58.000 And if you knew me back then, you'd probably laugh too.
00:30:01.000 Like, what do you mean you're going to fight?
00:30:03.000 Are you stupid?
00:30:04.000 That's the stupidest thing I could ever think of.
00:30:06.000 And one of my best friends, Mo, he...
00:30:12.000 For whatever reason, this one night we were up on the roof drinking and smoking weed, and we got to talking just about life, and he was actually born with a heart defect.
00:30:22.000 I can't remember the exact name of the disease that he had, but he was in hospitals his whole life.
00:30:27.000 He was eventually going to need to get a heart transplant, and...
00:30:30.000 He's like, what do you want to do with your life?
00:30:32.000 I looked at him like he was asking me what I wanted to do when I got to the moon.
00:30:36.000 I'm like, what do you mean what I want to do with my life?
00:30:39.000 I was like, well, I always wanted to fight and expecting him to laugh at me about this.
00:30:45.000 He was like, well, why don't you?
00:30:47.000 Why don't you do it?
00:30:48.000 I told him, well, I feel old already.
00:30:50.000 I was 18 at the time.
00:30:52.000 I already felt ancient then.
00:30:54.000 And I told him all my reasons and all my fears and doubts and all these things.
00:30:59.000 He's like, you know what, man?
00:31:00.000 He's like, if anybody can do it, you can.
00:31:02.000 He's like, I think you should.
00:31:04.000 And that always stuck with me.
00:31:07.000 I was like, maybe I can.
00:31:09.000 And in that moment, I felt very motivated and wanted to do it.
00:31:13.000 But by continuing to drink and all these other things, I just suppressed it into the back of my mind.
00:31:20.000 And then about a year later, he was in the hospital and he needed to get a heart transplant.
00:31:25.000 He was basically at that point and was like, you're going to be here until you get one or you're going to die.
00:31:31.000 And I don't think any of us realized how serious it was or maybe we just didn't want to.
00:31:38.000 He ended up passing away while he was waiting for the transplant.
00:31:43.000 That just obviously devastated me to no end.
00:31:49.000 And through that night, through my drunken coping, I was like, I'm going to do this.
00:31:55.000 I'm going to go after this dream.
00:31:57.000 You know, my friend, he didn't even get a chance to fail at a dream, and I'm too...
00:32:01.000 Scared to even try for no reason.
00:32:04.000 Just out of fear.
00:32:05.000 That's literally my only reason not to do this.
00:32:08.000 Other than, you know, financial and all those other surface things.
00:32:11.000 But it really just boiled down to fear.
00:32:14.000 And I was like, you know what?
00:32:15.000 I'm going to go after this for him.
00:32:18.000 You know, he didn't get a chance to live.
00:32:19.000 I'm going to live for the both of us.
00:32:21.000 But, you know, unfortunately, his death sent me even harder down that downward spiral of alcohol and depression.
00:32:28.000 And...
00:32:30.000 Three years later, I just had a realization one day.
00:32:35.000 I was like, if he was still alive, he'd beat the fuck out of me for wasting my life.
00:32:40.000 I've been wasting my life for 21 years because I'm afraid.
00:32:45.000 I'm afraid.
00:32:46.000 I'm too afraid to fail.
00:32:49.000 I'm too afraid of all these stupid reasons that all of us give ourselves in order to make ourselves feel better about not going after things.
00:32:57.000 But really, they're just that.
00:32:59.000 They're just excuses.
00:33:00.000 They're just things that make you feel better.
00:33:03.000 And they're bullshit.
00:33:04.000 They're all bullshit.
00:33:06.000 Almost every excuse we have is total bullshit because there's people with those excuses and with all those reasons and more, and they do it.
00:33:14.000 Like, what is your excuse?
00:33:16.000 And it just smacked me in the face one day.
00:33:19.000 And I was at that point when I could not ignore it any longer.
00:33:22.000 And this was going into 2003. So I was like...
00:33:28.000 I made it my New Year's resolution to do this.
00:33:32.000 One night I was sitting down with my father and he'd get into these long talks with me because I was always very quiet and he'd take me off to the side and his way to kind of Talk to me and get to know me better.
00:33:45.000 And he's like, so, why don't you tell me something you've never told anybody?
00:33:50.000 You know, I'm like, what do you mean?
00:33:52.000 Like, I killed somebody when I was little?
00:33:55.000 I'm like racking my brain what I could possibly tell him.
00:33:58.000 And, you know, that kept playing in my mind.
00:34:01.000 You want to fight?
00:34:02.000 You want to fight?
00:34:02.000 You want to fight?
00:34:04.000 And very, like, quietly, he's like, I want to fight one day.
00:34:07.000 And he's like, what?
00:34:08.000 He's like, I want to fight.
00:34:10.000 And he's like, what do you mean you want to fight?
00:34:11.000 And, you know, I told him and he's like, Well, why don't you?
00:34:14.000 And I told him all these reasons.
00:34:15.000 He's like, well, I cannot help you with all of your fears and doubts and this, but look, I'll make a deal with you.
00:34:20.000 If you quit drinking and dedicate yourself to this, I'll take care of all the financial things in order to let you do this.
00:34:31.000 I was like, he's like, we got a deal?
00:34:33.000 I was like, all right, yeah.
00:34:34.000 And he's like, points down, I was drinking a 40 at the time.
00:34:37.000 He's like, what about that drink in your hand?
00:34:39.000 And I was like...
00:34:40.000 Well, I was going to start tomorrow, so maybe I can finish this.
00:34:44.000 But I understood even at that age, you can't put things off like that.
00:34:51.000 If you're serious about it, you're going to do it now.
00:34:53.000 So I dumped out the rest of the 40 and the sink he had in there, and two days later I got into the gym.
00:35:00.000 Was it hard to wean yourself off the alcohol, though, if you were physically dependent on it?
00:35:05.000 It was both extremely difficult, yet I was so focused on this goal that none of those I had to overcome so much,
00:35:20.000 not just the physical dependence on alcohol, but my lifestyle.
00:35:24.000 I changed so many things.
00:35:26.000 But I'd been putting this off for so long that I knew there was no time for me to waste.
00:35:35.000 I was so focused on this.
00:35:36.000 Once I made that switch in my mind, I'm going to go after this and there's nothing that's going to stop me.
00:35:44.000 I've wasted so many years already.
00:35:47.000 That everything I'm doing is going to be playing catch-up.
00:35:51.000 There's no way for me to get to...
00:35:53.000 I'd look at Sanchai and guys like that and I'd be like, I'm never going to get there.
00:35:59.000 So everything that I do has to be...
00:36:04.000 To get me closer to this goal.
00:36:07.000 And I can't allow, you know, my physical dependency or my doubts or any of these things slow me down because everything I'm doing, I have to play catch up, you know?
00:36:18.000 And, um...
00:36:20.000 Having that focus allowed me to overcome all of those physical and emotional and mental challenges.
00:36:30.000 And of course, that's not to say it was easy.
00:36:32.000 It was extremely difficult.
00:36:34.000 It was extremely difficult, but it was...
00:36:37.000 You got two choices.
00:36:39.000 You can allow these things to slow you down and hinder you and weaken you.
00:36:44.000 Or you can say, I'm going to go forward anyway.
00:36:47.000 It doesn't matter how afraid I am.
00:36:49.000 It doesn't matter how hurt I am.
00:36:51.000 It doesn't matter how tired I am.
00:36:52.000 This is what I want.
00:36:54.000 And I'm going to put everything that I have into this.
00:36:57.000 So that way...
00:36:58.000 When I'm done, when my life is over, when I can't do this anymore, I can look back and have no regrets that I didn't allow these things to slow me down.
00:37:08.000 I didn't allow the excuses that we all have hinder me and keep me from doing this.
00:37:15.000 Because one day we're going to wake up and realize we could have gone after these things.
00:37:21.000 And we didn't because of X, Y, and Z, but really those things aren't.
00:37:27.000 Aren't anything, you know?
00:37:29.000 Do you stop and think about those moments when you first started?
00:37:34.000 Because that's a profound life shift.
00:37:37.000 To go from being a guy who's kind of aimless and partying a lot, but knowing that you should do something with your life, to finally doing something.
00:37:45.000 What was it like when you finally started training?
00:37:49.000 What did it feel like?
00:37:51.000 Had you done anything athletic before that?
00:37:55.000 I was always athletic my whole life.
00:37:58.000 I was always really good at sports.
00:38:00.000 I hated the team aspect of things though.
00:38:04.000 I despised being on a team of any kind.
00:38:07.000 I love playing sports for the love of it.
00:38:10.000 You know, but anytime I was on, like, a team, I just hated it.
00:38:14.000 I despised it.
00:38:15.000 And, you know, by the time I was, like, I think 12, I completely turned my back on anything team-related.
00:38:21.000 Because I felt, to me, it felt like it just ruined all the beautiful things about the physicality of athletics.
00:38:29.000 You know, it put this...
00:38:34.000 It hindered me in a lot of ways.
00:38:36.000 And having to rely on other people was always a big thing.
00:38:40.000 It doesn't matter how hard I work because this person might not have worked at all.
00:38:44.000 And that's why I was so drawn to fighting because even though you do have a team, of course, it really is.
00:38:50.000 Everything is on you, the good and the bad.
00:38:53.000 There's nothing you can point to all these other things, but it's really just you.
00:38:58.000 Yeah.
00:39:00.000 So yeah, I think back and I look back to that time...
00:39:03.000 What was the first day like?
00:39:05.000 It was...
00:39:06.000 Do you remember?
00:39:07.000 Yeah, yeah, I do.
00:39:09.000 So I started out just doing private lessons.
00:39:12.000 I didn't even start doing classes until maybe six months to a year.
00:39:18.000 So I was doing private lessons on a daily basis.
00:39:20.000 My trainer, Master Chan, who's one of Tati's original instructors...
00:39:26.000 He had me in the gym at like 6am.
00:39:29.000 So this is January in Vegas, which is brutally cold, which not a lot of people realize.
00:39:35.000 And their gym had no heat.
00:39:38.000 All the windows were like broken, so there's no insulation or anything.
00:39:45.000 I was so excited, so nervous, and obviously I wanted to do really well and perform, and everything was so new that I didn't really have a lot...
00:39:58.000 I couldn't even really process it, so there wasn't a lot of...
00:40:02.000 There wasn't really a lot of thought that was going into it.
00:40:04.000 I was just excited.
00:40:06.000 I was just constantly excited and motivated and wanted to...
00:40:11.000 My whole goal was to fight.
00:40:13.000 You know, I was like, I want to fight, even if it's only one time.
00:40:15.000 So everything I did was with that mentality.
00:40:19.000 You know, I was like, I want to get better.
00:40:20.000 I want to get better.
00:40:21.000 I want to do everything that I can at every moment.
00:40:23.000 And I put every ounce of myself into every second of the day was geared towards this.
00:40:29.000 You know, I was singularly focused on this goal.
00:40:32.000 Can you remember the first day?
00:40:34.000 Can you remember the first day of footwork and holding your hands up?
00:40:38.000 The first day he has me up in the ring.
00:40:44.000 It must have been maybe the second or third day because...
00:40:50.000 I know there was other people there.
00:40:52.000 Maybe they were just hitting the bag and stuff.
00:40:54.000 So there was a couple of the other pro fighters there.
00:40:57.000 Or other.
00:40:58.000 They were pro fighters.
00:40:58.000 I was nobody.
00:41:00.000 And I'm up in the ring.
00:41:02.000 And so this is day one.
00:41:03.000 He's like, Shadowbox.
00:41:05.000 I've never done anything fighting related.
00:41:08.000 I'm like, What do you mean?
00:41:09.000 Like, I don't even know what that is.
00:41:11.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:41:12.000 Like, what do you mean shadowbox?
00:41:14.000 So, like, so much of my, everything in my career has been, like, thrown into the deep end, can you swim kind of thing, and, like, this forced learning curve.
00:41:24.000 You know, I didn't get babied into anything.
00:41:27.000 You know, it's like...
00:41:28.000 All right, Shadowbox, go ahead.
00:41:30.000 And all these fighters are staring at me, watching me.
00:41:34.000 I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing, but whatever.
00:41:38.000 It was traumatic in a lot of ways, but having to confront that and face that, particularly me, because I'm naturally a very...
00:41:48.000 Shy person, a person that doesn't speak ever to anybody.
00:41:53.000 I mean, even now, you know, I'm still very quiet.
00:41:55.000 But if you knew me back then, I was basically a mute, you know, and I had no interaction with especially strangers and people I didn't know.
00:42:02.000 And even the ones that I do, I'd still barely even communicate with.
00:42:05.000 So all of this was so foreign to me.
00:42:08.000 This was like an alternate universe that I was in.
00:42:11.000 And yeah, it was so scary.
00:42:15.000 But it was like...
00:42:17.000 You don't have a choice.
00:42:18.000 Get up there and do it or get the fuck out of here.
00:42:21.000 You know what I mean?
00:42:22.000 So there wasn't time for me to really think about it or even be really nervous about it.
00:42:30.000 I was like, do it.
00:42:31.000 Shadowbox.
00:42:32.000 And this instructor, he barely spoke English, so it's not like I can say, hey, well, I don't really know what I'm doing and maybe you can show me some things.
00:42:40.000 Just go.
00:42:41.000 That's very much a Thai approach.
00:42:43.000 It's like, just do it.
00:42:45.000 I'm not going to tell you how.
00:42:46.000 I'm not going to explain the steps.
00:42:47.000 Just go kick the bag or hit it.
00:42:50.000 Just do it.
00:42:53.000 Yeah, it was scary.
00:42:56.000 But then once you got some momentum...
00:42:59.000 Once you had a couple of weeks under your belt and this started becoming a real normal part of your life, what was that feeling like where you realized, like, hey, I'm fucking actually doing this.
00:43:09.000 This is actually happening.
00:43:11.000 Well, every day I was taking significant jumps.
00:43:15.000 I mean, as I said, I've always been naturally athletic, so I was picking this up, like, quick, really quick.
00:43:23.000 I mean, even within a few weeks, people thought I'd been doing it for years.
00:43:27.000 And a lot of that does come from my physicality, but my drive to do it and to have my sights set so high that I was taking these quantum leaps every single day.
00:43:45.000 So, over the weeks and over the months, it really felt like I was like, oh, I'm on track.
00:43:52.000 I'm on the path I should be on.
00:43:55.000 I'm going to be amazing at this.
00:43:58.000 This is great.
00:43:59.000 I'm natural at this.
00:44:01.000 I'm going to be a champion one day.
00:44:04.000 I'm going to just be crushing people.
00:44:07.000 Everything was pointing in that direction with my development and eventually going into the classes and sparring and all those kinds of things.
00:44:18.000 It was always like, when do I get to fight?
00:44:21.000 When do I get to fight?
00:44:21.000 When do I get to fight?
00:44:23.000 I think it was nine months in, I finally got...
00:44:27.000 I got to fight, and I was like, oh, this is it.
00:44:30.000 This is my moment.
00:44:31.000 I'm going to go out there.
00:44:33.000 I'm going to crush this dude, and then I'm going to be on my way to the big time.
00:44:40.000 Even back then, there's no big time.
00:44:42.000 This was before YouTube.
00:44:44.000 This was before anyone even knew what Muay Thai was.
00:44:49.000 You had to tell everybody you did kickboxing, basically, which just crushed my soul every time.
00:44:55.000 Every time I say, well, it's like kickboxing.
00:44:58.000 And, you know, for Muay Thai people to have to say that, it's devastating.
00:45:04.000 It's like someone say, well, it's like karate.
00:45:06.000 You know what I mean?
00:45:08.000 No disrespect to any of these other arts, but to say that it's that in order to help people.
00:45:13.000 Most of the time I would just say, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like kickboxing.
00:45:17.000 Instead of having to explain to them what it is.
00:45:19.000 Yeah.
00:45:21.000 Yeah, so nine months in, there was going to be a fight in Salt Lake City, Utah, and a bunch of the other people at the gym were fighting as well, and we were all going to go up there and compete.
00:45:34.000 Is this an amateur fight?
00:45:35.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:45:36.000 Headgear?
00:45:39.000 No.
00:45:40.000 Yes, headgear, but the funny thing was we had headgear, but we didn't have shin guards.
00:45:45.000 We had eight-ounce gloves, and we had knees to the head, which was a trip.
00:45:52.000 Anyway, I was like, oh yeah, great, we get to fight.
00:45:55.000 I was so excited, and my pops and Gina, and we drove up there.
00:46:04.000 Like I said, I really felt like I was on my way, but when we got there, Um, the guy that I was originally supposed to fight, I don't remember if he backed out or it was just that he was closer in weight to somebody else.
00:46:17.000 Um, you know, and that was kind of the thing back then.
00:46:20.000 We would just show up at places and be like, you gotta fight for me or don't you?
00:46:24.000 And, um, they didn't.
00:46:26.000 And, um, I was like, oh my God, I was devastated.
00:46:29.000 I was devastated.
00:46:30.000 I'm like, I did all this work.
00:46:31.000 I was so ready.
00:46:32.000 And, Now I don't have a fight, and my trainer's like, well, is there somebody else you can get?
00:46:38.000 And so the promoter, you know, he's calling around, calling around, and finally he's like, well, there's one guy that's going to take it, but he outweighs you by 20 pounds, and he's had about 30 fights already.
00:46:52.000 I was like, let's do it.
00:46:54.000 I don't give a fuck, man.
00:46:55.000 I was like, I didn't do all this for nothing, you know what I'm saying?
00:46:58.000 And again, that was just our mentality.
00:47:01.000 The way that we came up and the people that we came up under was, you fight anytime, anywhere, anyone, any style, any weight, it doesn't matter.
00:47:11.000 So yeah, I didn't even really think about it as far as that goes.
00:47:16.000 I get to fight, that's fucking awesome, man.
00:47:20.000 I felt confident in a way, but it's also that you have no idea what you're really doing.
00:47:26.000 You can train your whole life, but if you've never fought, you don't know anything.
00:47:32.000 You have no concept of what it's like to be in there.
00:47:35.000 You have the hardest sparring in the world with a complete stranger, and it's night and day between a real fight and sparring.
00:47:45.000 Yeah, you want to feel confident going in there, but you have no concept of what it is.
00:47:51.000 So it's really just fake.
00:47:52.000 It's fake confidence.
00:47:57.000 I got a fucking crush, man.
00:47:58.000 So I got there and I have no concept of pacing myself or anything.
00:48:04.000 So I'm sprinting at this guy.
00:48:07.000 And in 30 seconds, I was just done.
00:48:10.000 I couldn't breathe.
00:48:11.000 I couldn't think.
00:48:12.000 I could barely even see.
00:48:15.000 It felt like I was underwater.
00:48:17.000 And it was the worst thing in the world because nothing this guy was doing was hurting me.
00:48:23.000 And every time he'd hit me, the whole crowd was like, oh!
00:48:26.000 And And all I wanted to do was just say, this isn't bothering me.
00:48:30.000 This isn't hurting.
00:48:31.000 I wanted to tell everybody, this isn't hurting me.
00:48:33.000 I can't breathe.
00:48:34.000 All I'm really trying to do is not pass out right now.
00:48:39.000 Physically, I couldn't do anything.
00:48:41.000 I was able to last for a while and do a couple decent things in there, but by the third round, he was just battering me, kneeing me in the face, and he just kept clenching me up and just kneeing the piss out of me, and there was nothing I could do, and they finally stopped it in the third round.
00:48:59.000 I was devastated, man.
00:49:01.000 I was devastated.
00:49:03.000 I remember walking back to the locker room, everyone in the crowd was cheering for me, like, oh, that was awesome, man.
00:49:11.000 Like, good job, good job.
00:49:13.000 I'm like, what is wrong with these people?
00:49:14.000 That wasn't good.
00:49:15.000 That was so terrible.
00:49:16.000 That was terrible.
00:49:17.000 And I was laying in the back and bleeding all over the place, and my opponent comes in.
00:49:22.000 He's like, dude, that was your first fight?
00:49:24.000 I was like, yeah.
00:49:25.000 He's like, man.
00:49:26.000 I hate to see you in like a year or two.
00:49:28.000 He's like, that was amazing.
00:49:29.000 That really stuck with me.
00:49:31.000 That one that he said that and also just the impact I saw that you could have on people.
00:49:37.000 That it's not necessarily about whether you win or lose.
00:49:41.000 It's what you show in there.
00:49:43.000 It's the heart that you show.
00:49:44.000 It's the spirit that you show.
00:49:48.000 And, you know, I had like a day or two when I was like, maybe this just isn't for me.
00:49:53.000 You know, I thought that I was going to be so good at this.
00:49:57.000 I thought that I was just going to like skyrocket to the top.
00:50:00.000 And I got crushed, man.
00:50:01.000 I didn't even make it out of the fight.
00:50:03.000 And like, maybe this isn't for me.
00:50:05.000 But I was forced to face that day one.
00:50:09.000 Like, do you want to do this regardless of how good you are, regardless of you win?
00:50:14.000 If you can't win and maybe you can't be the best in the world, do you still want to do this?
00:50:19.000 Yeah, I fucking do.
00:50:21.000 I love this so much.
00:50:22.000 And me having to face that so early on was...
00:50:28.000 It's extremely significant.
00:50:30.000 I thought so many of the people I trained with would go on these undefeated streaks, like 10, 15, 20 fights, but inevitably you will lose.
00:50:38.000 And if you haven't had to confront that early on, eventually you do.
00:50:43.000 Most of those people never fought again.
00:50:46.000 Or just like crushed them mentally where they weren't able to overcome it.
00:50:49.000 But I had to deal with it the first day and overcome it and be like, you know what?
00:50:54.000 That doesn't matter.
00:50:55.000 I'm going to bust my ass in the gym and make sure that never happens again.
00:50:59.000 And I went on to win like 19, 20 fights in a row from there.
00:51:03.000 And that was really...
00:51:06.000 A significant moment in my career where I had to confront the reality of this.
00:51:14.000 So much of fighting is a perfect metaphor for things in life.
00:51:21.000 If you really want something, you can't always focus on...
00:51:26.000 What the results are, or the immediate results, like winning and losing and all of these things.
00:51:31.000 So much of that is just on the surface, ego level of things.
00:51:36.000 And when you break it all down, why are you doing this?
00:51:41.000 I'm doing this because I love it.
00:51:42.000 I'm doing this to improve myself.
00:51:45.000 I'm doing this because it's what keeps me healthy mentally, physically, spiritually, and all of these things.
00:51:50.000 And that's the most important thing.
00:51:53.000 Yes, it was an extreme motivator to be better and not to let that happen to me again, but...
00:52:00.000 It really made things clear to me early on, like, what's important here.
00:52:08.000 Also, just to get over that, it's so psychologically important that you, like you were saying, you just kept getting sort of tossed to the wolves.
00:52:18.000 Everything you did was difficult.
00:52:20.000 It was almost symbolic of your journey that you were forced to fight someone who had 30 fights and 20 pounds heavier when you had no experience.
00:52:29.000 Trusting the process is...
00:52:32.000 You really only trust the process if it's difficult.
00:52:36.000 You know, that whole expression, trust the process.
00:52:38.000 Well, if you're fucking everybody up, what do you mean trust the process?
00:52:40.000 You're out there just fucking everybody up.
00:52:42.000 Of course I'm trusting the process.
00:52:43.000 I'm the man, right?
00:52:44.000 But when you get your ass handed to you, and then you have to rebuild, and you have to realize, well, there's a series of variables that you're encountering.
00:52:53.000 Variables in speed, and in aggressiveness, and in styles, and in...
00:53:00.000 We're good to go.
00:53:27.000 A lot of times when you do that, you end up with a spoiled brat who has no concept of work ethic and what it really takes.
00:53:33.000 And you're hindering them even more so than you were because you had to confront all these things.
00:53:39.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:53:40.000 And it's unfortunate that so many things that you would think would help us or really hurt us in the end.
00:53:47.000 And it needs to be difficult.
00:53:48.000 It needs to be a struggle.
00:53:50.000 And of course, you want...
00:53:53.000 Yeah.
00:54:15.000 I don't know.
00:54:16.000 Yeah, it's hard.
00:54:18.000 I have children.
00:54:19.000 It's tricky.
00:54:20.000 You don't want them to have a hard life, but you do.
00:54:23.000 One of the most difficult things, too, is we're all on our own journey, and what's beneficial for one is detrimental to somebody else.
00:54:34.000 Yeah, it's good to have advice.
00:54:35.000 It's good to have somebody that believes in you, but that's not necessarily going to help you just because sometimes that might end up hurting you.
00:54:44.000 Having people that do believe in you and telling you how great you are and opening doors for you and all of these things.
00:54:51.000 In many ways, those things can be extremely detrimental and you don't develop the things that you inevitably will need.
00:54:59.000 In the long run.
00:55:01.000 And there's no one way to get anywhere.
00:55:06.000 It's so complex and there's so many variations of things that apply to success in anything.
00:55:15.000 I have one favorite day in the weather in Los Angeles.
00:55:20.000 The weather in Los Angeles is perfect, right?
00:55:22.000 It's just so often it's like 80 degrees and sunny.
00:55:25.000 It's like 90% of the time 80 degrees and sunny.
00:55:28.000 Me and my friend Brian and my friend Steve Rinella, we filmed this television show called Meat Eater and went on a hunting trip in Prince of Wales Island in Alaska, where it's the rainiest part in North America.
00:55:41.000 It's so fucking rainy.
00:55:43.000 You think you're going to stay dry in your tent?
00:55:46.000 But there's no such thing as dry.
00:55:48.000 And I realized this one of the first nights, I had to get up and take a piss in the middle of the night, and I had a headlamp, and I turned my headlamp on, and inside my tent was like it was raining, because there was so much mist.
00:56:02.000 There was moisture, like so much moisture, that turning on the headlamp was like you were doing it in fog, like everything was wet.
00:56:10.000 My sleeping bag was wet.
00:56:11.000 My clothes were wet.
00:56:12.000 And I was like, oh, you don't get dry.
00:56:15.000 There's no dry.
00:56:16.000 We had one day where we had a fire.
00:56:18.000 One day we figured out how to start a fire.
00:56:19.000 Actually using Fritos is a pro tip.
00:56:23.000 Fritos are made with some fucking crazy toxic grease that they work great as lighter fuel.
00:56:31.000 If you light them, they stay lit for a long time.
00:56:34.000 And then we're taking the inside of logs and using that wood and wood that was maybe under the bottom of other wood so it didn't get as wet.
00:56:45.000 We slowly put a fire together.
00:56:47.000 Anyway, I was there for six, seven days.
00:56:50.000 We got back to LA, and it was 80 and sunny.
00:56:54.000 And the feeling of that sun, I was like, this is the same sun I always experience.
00:56:59.000 But it's always just, you know, it's normal.
00:57:02.000 It's no big deal.
00:57:03.000 It's just California weather.
00:57:04.000 Another day in paradise, but not that day.
00:57:07.000 That day, I was like, fuck.
00:57:08.000 Fuck, this is amazing.
00:57:10.000 I was driving on the street.
00:57:11.000 My face felt good.
00:57:13.000 Like, everything, it felt good.
00:57:14.000 And I called my friend Steve up.
00:57:16.000 I go, dude, I've never been happier.
00:57:18.000 Like, this is like the happiest day I've ever experienced.
00:57:22.000 And I think it's because we were suffering in just cold and rain for seven days.
00:57:28.000 You're like, you need that.
00:57:30.000 Because if you just have these goddamn sunny days, you're like, everybody out here in California, you just spoiled baby.
00:57:37.000 Well, it's like the, uh, if everybody's winning, nobody's winning, nobody's losing.
00:57:42.000 So if you don't have the good and the bad, you don't even understand, you can't appreciate the good or what the bad can be, the helpful things that it does.
00:57:52.000 And yeah, we don't want that, but those are the things that help you grow.
00:57:56.000 And those are the things that we inevitably need.
00:57:59.000 Um, you know, I, uh, I hate to.
00:58:04.000 Well, I don't hate to because I want to do this.
00:58:06.000 I'm going to toss a little hand grenade at you and see what you want to do with it here.
00:58:11.000 But I've been thinking about this a lot lately and wanting to communicate my story and these things that have happened to me.
00:58:22.000 And then this opportunity came up and this opportunity to reach a lot of people.
00:58:28.000 There's that quote that says, be the person that you needed when you were younger.
00:58:31.000 You know, and Gina has that on her wall and it stares me in the face every day and I realize that I now am the person that I needed when I was younger and if somebody would have opened up their mouth and let me know that I wasn't alone and that I wasn't so isolated and so many horrible things that we all deal with is because we feel isolation.
00:58:55.000 We don't think anyone could understand and we don't think that Anyone else is going through these things.
00:59:01.000 And if we did, just that knowledge of not being alone would be so significant.
00:59:07.000 But when I was 14 years old, I was molested by my stepmother.
00:59:13.000 And this went on for well over a year, close to two years.
00:59:20.000 It was obviously detrimental to me and these are things that I'm just now finally starting to be able to understand.
00:59:31.000 Realize what happened to me and realize how young I was at the time.
00:59:35.000 When I meet a 14-year-old kid, you're a fucking baby.
00:59:41.000 You're a baby.
00:59:43.000 It's like when we think about ourselves when we were younger, at least myself, I still feel the same I did when I was younger.
00:59:49.000 I was just little.
00:59:50.000 You know what I mean?
00:59:51.000 But you don't really understand how little you were until you have a little 12, 14-year-old kid standing next to you.
01:00:01.000 How could that happen?
01:00:06.000 I saw a study that said one in six males are abused by the time they're 18, which means every one of us probably knows somebody that this has happened to.
01:00:18.000 And to think how...
01:00:20.000 Devastating it is to women, but to men, it's such a different thing because it's almost viewed, well, when it happens from a woman, it's almost viewed as a good thing.
01:00:34.000 It's a positive thing.
01:00:36.000 I wish that happened to me when I was a kid.
01:00:39.000 I want to be molested.
01:00:41.000 We're not able to really understand it and understand the damage that it does.
01:00:54.000 If I wouldn't have felt so alone and so isolated at the time, I don't necessarily know if things would have changed, but I definitely would have Wouldn't have felt so alone.
01:01:08.000 You know, it wouldn't have felt like there's nobody in the world that could possibly understand this.
01:01:12.000 There's nobody that...
01:01:13.000 Who can I talk to about this?
01:01:14.000 You know, like, I can't talk to my friends.
01:01:17.000 A couple of my friends knew.
01:01:18.000 They thought it was the coolest shit ever.
01:01:20.000 You know, they were like, I want that.
01:01:21.000 I want that bad.
01:01:22.000 And I'm like...
01:01:24.000 Well, it was your stepmom, too, which is...
01:01:26.000 Dude, it was...
01:01:32.000 So confusing.
01:01:34.000 I was very conflicted by it.
01:01:38.000 I couldn't understand it at all.
01:01:42.000 And then to have this person mentally manipulating me and making like Oh, it's not a big deal.
01:01:50.000 It's almost like it's a good thing.
01:01:53.000 There's nothing wrong.
01:01:57.000 I'm not a stranger.
01:02:01.000 As I said, I started drinking when I was 12. This really just derailed me so much and made me internalize and put up these barriers and walls around me and things that, like I said,
01:02:16.000 I'm only even just at this age starting to understand, like, the negative...
01:02:24.000 Habits that this created in me of distrust and of negativity and of having to be alone and not trust people and so many things like that.
01:02:41.000 Gene is probably the only person that I've ever talked to in depth about this.
01:02:46.000 I mean, a couple of people in my family know and almost none of my friends know.
01:02:51.000 I've never spoken to this to anybody.
01:02:54.000 I try to go to a therapist once and talk about this, but I started realizing this therapist is getting more out of our interaction than I am.
01:03:05.000 He's an overweight person that needs help.
01:03:09.000 Self-confidence help.
01:03:11.000 I'm like, oh, geez, man.
01:03:12.000 Like, who can I fucking talk to about this?
01:03:15.000 And, you know, maybe I can't talk to anybody, but I am in a position to where I can...
01:03:23.000 Reach out and let other people know that they're not the only ones going through this.
01:03:29.000 That has been weighing on me so much lately, especially over the last few years.
01:03:34.000 I'm like, you are in a position to be able, even if it only helps one person, you can.
01:03:42.000 You just don't know how to.
01:03:44.000 I'm like, well, I could write about it or I could do a video blog or something.
01:03:49.000 I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
01:03:52.000 How can I do this?
01:03:54.000 Should I do this?
01:03:55.000 I don't know if that's a good thing.
01:03:58.000 It's not like I'm a psychologist or someone that can help with this.
01:04:02.000 But I just felt like I need to express this and communicate this.
01:04:12.000 Maybe it can do some good for even one person.
01:04:17.000 If I didn't, that would haunt me forever.
01:04:22.000 I had an experience when I was 13 with a girl who lived up the street who was 21 a couple times.
01:04:29.000 But it was very different than your experience.
01:04:33.000 It was...
01:04:35.000 I mean, I'm ashamed to say it.
01:04:38.000 It was kind of fun.
01:04:40.000 You know, it was different.
01:04:41.000 I couldn't believe it.
01:04:43.000 It was very weird.
01:04:45.000 Yeah.
01:04:45.000 But it definitely, like...
01:04:49.000 Kind of screwed up my idea of what boy-girl interaction was.
01:04:54.000 I didn't go from, like, 13-year-olds, most of the time, they're like, you want a kiss?
01:04:59.000 I don't know, do you?
01:05:00.000 I don't know.
01:05:01.000 To, you know, this girl grabbing my dick and pulling her tits out.
01:05:05.000 She was a woman, you know, she was 21. Yeah.
01:05:09.000 It didn't...
01:05:10.000 It didn't hurt me, like, your story.
01:05:13.000 Like, your story hurts.
01:05:14.000 Like, it sounds like you were betrayed and you were...
01:05:17.000 And also, the fact that it was your stepmom, I mean...
01:05:21.000 With me, it was like, what the fuck was that all about?
01:05:23.000 And I didn't tell anybody.
01:05:26.000 I didn't tell anybody for like fucking years and years later.
01:05:29.000 I probably didn't tell anyone until I was in my 20s.
01:05:32.000 And I think I probably told a girlfriend when I was in my 20s.
01:05:36.000 And she was like, when was the first time you ever fooled around?
01:05:39.000 I was like, well...
01:05:41.000 Because that was really the first time I had ever fooled around with anyone, was this 21-year-old woman.
01:05:46.000 It was the same thing for me.
01:05:48.000 I didn't even kiss a girl until I was, I don't know, 12, 13, late.
01:05:55.000 Because I was such a shy person.
01:05:56.000 So I went from just kissing to that.
01:06:00.000 There was no in-between.
01:06:01.000 I think the same with me.
01:06:02.000 I don't even think I kissed.
01:06:04.000 I think I kissed her.
01:06:05.000 I think she was the first person I kissed.
01:06:09.000 To just have your innocence ripped away like that and to be thrust into this adult thing.
01:06:20.000 Obviously, the situation was that much worse.
01:06:24.000 My stepmom and it being molested.
01:06:30.000 It's such a different thing than A woman are being raped, forcefully raped.
01:06:37.000 Oh, it's way different, yeah.
01:06:38.000 But psychologically and emotionally, you know, it's devastating.
01:06:45.000 It is obviously a rape.
01:06:47.000 And you were living with her as well?
01:06:49.000 Yeah.
01:06:50.000 The whole thing's terrible.
01:06:52.000 And you said it went on for a year?
01:06:55.000 Longer than a year.
01:06:56.000 It was probably close to two years.
01:06:58.000 How did it stop?
01:06:59.000 I stopped it, actually.
01:07:01.000 You know, this was something, you know, I never felt right about this.
01:07:07.000 I was very conflicted by it, you know, and I was like, this definitely isn't a good thing, but I don't know.
01:07:15.000 I definitely didn't understand how bad of a thing it was, you know.
01:07:19.000 And again, she was very manipulative.
01:07:22.000 And anytime I would kind of bring that subject up, like, yeah, I don't think this is okay.
01:07:28.000 This feels wrong.
01:07:30.000 And she'd be like, no, no.
01:07:32.000 And find this way to rationalize it or make it okay.
01:07:37.000 But as time went on, I was just like, this is bad.
01:07:41.000 How old was she?
01:07:42.000 She was probably 30, young 30s.
01:07:47.000 That was another thing.
01:07:49.000 Once I got to that age and then I saw a 14-year-old, I'm like, what the fuck?
01:07:54.000 I couldn't even conceptualize how twisted this person was until I got that age.
01:08:01.000 How could you look at a baby, a child, and do that?
01:08:07.000 How could you do that?
01:08:09.000 You know the expression, hurt people hurt people.
01:08:11.000 Yeah.
01:08:12.000 And unfortunately, a lot of that for me helps you rationalize it and make it like, oh, well, she's fucked up.
01:08:23.000 And even my father, after he found out, he kept this lady around for a while.
01:08:29.000 Really?
01:08:30.000 Yeah.
01:08:30.000 After he found out?
01:08:31.000 Yeah, I mean, they kind of split up and divorced, but they kind of worked together still.
01:08:37.000 And, you know, he kept her around for quite some time.
01:08:41.000 And, you know, that alone was extremely damaging to me.
01:08:45.000 A betrayal.
01:08:46.000 Such a betrayal and such a traumatic thing that I didn't even really...
01:08:53.000 Understand how damaging that was after the fact until really till recently, you know, because I myself would rationalize it.
01:09:02.000 Well, you know, he didn't want to like, like be an asshole and like send her off and like she was an alcoholic.
01:09:08.000 And, you know, he's just trying to make this horrible situation okay for all of us.
01:09:16.000 And, you know, I didn't really think about how fucked up he was in the whole situation and how much more damaging it was in the long run to me by not having my father protect me.
01:09:28.000 Like, if this happened to my child, I would fucking murder a woman that did this, you know?
01:09:36.000 I certainly wouldn't keep her around, and I certainly wouldn't just handle it the way that he did.
01:09:46.000 It magnified the damage that much more so because of the way that it was handled.
01:09:55.000 To not be taken care of by adults, by not being taken care of by my father, By the people around me that were supposed to love me and take care of me.
01:10:06.000 And they did the exact opposite.
01:10:09.000 Like, they fucked my world up, you know?
01:10:14.000 And I put band-aids of alcohol on it my whole life, you know?
01:10:19.000 And I understand, like, why I did that and why it was...
01:10:24.000 I mean, I really was...
01:10:28.000 Trying to kill myself, really.
01:10:30.000 I mean, when you look at it, that's what I was doing.
01:10:32.000 I was just doing a long process of it, you know, and that's what we do.
01:10:37.000 It's like, we don't want to take a gun and kill ourselves, but I don't want to really live, and I want to check out of this place.
01:10:44.000 The sooner the better.
01:10:46.000 So I'm going to do everything in my power to make it happen.
01:10:49.000 And that way I can't say I killed myself, but I was killing myself every day and putting myself in situations that were extremely dangerous and detrimental and damaging.
01:11:00.000 And that's what I was doing.
01:11:05.000 Half of my life I was Just destroyed.
01:11:10.000 I'm trying to use this second part of my life to make up for that, make up for the damage that was done and to try to Turn a horrible situation and a negative situation,
01:11:28.000 something that I could easily point to and allow, destroy my life, which is what I was doing, and trying to do the opposite.
01:11:38.000 Again, with the fight approach, it's like you have a loss, you have a horrible thing happen, you have an injury, what are you going to do with it?
01:11:44.000 Are you going to let it destroy you and break you and never do this again and be depressed and bitch and complain and whine about it?
01:11:50.000 We're going to say, yeah, shitty things happen to all of us.
01:11:53.000 Fucked up things happen and we all have the excuse to let it destroy our lives and to use it to make ourselves feel better about drinking and drugs and just being an asshole.
01:12:08.000 We all have reasons to be dicks and we all have reasons to take it out on other people.
01:12:16.000 But that doesn't mean that you should, and that doesn't mean that you don't still have a choice.
01:12:21.000 It's that victim mentality.
01:12:23.000 And this is something that I just started understanding, because, you know, that term victim mentality, I'm like, yeah, well, I'm a fucking victim.
01:12:30.000 But what victim mentality really is, is feeling like you don't have a role to play.
01:12:38.000 From that point.
01:12:39.000 Yeah, you might not have been able to control these terrible things that have happened to you, but you do have control over what you do from there.
01:12:46.000 You have control over whether you use that to go into a more positive light or you use that to drastically damage you and, you know, be this burden that you carry.
01:13:00.000 Well, sometimes I think When someone like you goes through something like this and comes out on the other end, what you can do by talking about this can set a path for so many people to understand that,
01:13:18.000 you know, someone looks at you, you know, they see you fighting on television and they see you on the internet and, you know, successful Muay Thai fighter and, you know, you look cool, you have this beautiful girlfriend, everything seems so positive.
01:13:33.000 When you're a young kid and your life is shit, like mine was, clearly like yours was, you look at these people like they're nothing like you.
01:13:42.000 They're aliens.
01:13:43.000 They're some different thing.
01:13:47.000 The world's opened up to them so easily, and they're better than you.
01:13:53.000 When someone hears you talk about your experience, the alcoholism, the abuse, the isolation, the feeling like a loser, and all the things that are so relatable to so many people, when you can talk about this, you're setting a map That other people can follow.
01:14:13.000 And this is something that's so important in culture and in human beings.
01:14:19.000 We're all part of some strange evolution of the human race.
01:14:23.000 And the things that our grandparents went through were likely unfucking believably horrific.
01:14:30.000 The things their grandparents went through were probably magnitudes worse.
01:14:35.000 And this is just how human beings have gone from being monkeys To being what we are now, and it's happening very rapidly.
01:14:43.000 And one of the things that accelerates this understanding of consequences and of the ability to rise to the occasion and overcome obstacles and to be able to use adversity as a tool to better yourself is someone like you.
01:15:00.000 What you're doing right now is very, very beneficial to so many people.
01:15:04.000 Millions of people are listening to this right now.
01:15:06.000 And so many of them, this is going to resonate with them.
01:15:09.000 They're going to say, oh, this guy who is this fucking badass kickboxer, excuse me, Muay Thai, right?
01:15:15.000 Badass dude who's this, like, you know, like, people admire you.
01:15:19.000 And to hear this is so, it's so powerful.
01:15:23.000 I mean...
01:15:25.000 I'm so glad you said it.
01:15:26.000 I'm so glad you talked all of it from the beginning, you know, your earlier struggles to this, because this is medicine for people, man.
01:15:34.000 There's a lot of people that are hearing this right now, and they're going, I can do it too.
01:15:37.000 I can do it too.
01:15:38.000 Yeah, and that's always been a motivational thing for me, to try to be honest with the things that I deal with, the ups and the downs, and to show my losses, to show my injuries,
01:15:54.000 to be vocal about the doubts that I have, that I still have, that I still deal with.
01:16:01.000 It's easy to look at these people in the spotlight and be like, They don't deal with fear.
01:16:05.000 They don't deal with pain.
01:16:07.000 They don't deal with doubts.
01:16:08.000 They don't deal with feeling like they're inadequate.
01:16:12.000 I think it was a clip or something you were talking about the imposter syndrome.
01:16:19.000 Yeah.
01:16:23.000 Amazing you seemingly are on the outside to all of these people.
01:16:27.000 Like, we're all just human beings.
01:16:28.000 We are all just individuals that have made choices and have steered our lives in certain directions.
01:16:34.000 But it's almost like when you make it to a point, it's like, oh, they don't deal with this anymore.
01:16:38.000 I deal with the exact same fears, doubts, and all of these things that I dealt with day one.
01:16:46.000 To this day, I still deal with them.
01:16:48.000 Those same questions, they've never gone away, ever gone away.
01:16:52.000 You learn how to handle them better, and you get strengthened by them, but they don't necessarily disappear.
01:17:00.000 And a lot of times they can get worse over the years because now you're in a position where you're expected to be a certain way.
01:17:08.000 People have expectations of you.
01:17:11.000 You're supposed to be this superhuman being or you're supposed to be extremely confident or you're supposed to only put on A-plus performances and you're not allowed to fail.
01:17:20.000 You're not allowed to be human anymore.
01:17:22.000 And when we can We've humanized these things and it lets people realize that they can do it too.
01:17:33.000 We're not necessarily made up of anything different than anybody else.
01:17:37.000 We've just gone through a process of learning and developing and diving off of cliffs that we didn't know where they were going.
01:17:45.000 That's what we all have to do.
01:17:47.000 The people in these spotlights, they're just human beings.
01:17:50.000 The more that you meet them and read about their stories and You know, that's why I love reading autobiographies.
01:17:57.000 It's like, geez, the things these people have had to overcome, they weren't handed anything.
01:18:01.000 More than anything, it was more devastating and detrimental, and they've had to overcome more than you could possibly imagine.
01:18:08.000 And it wasn't just given to them.
01:18:12.000 They had to work and strive and struggle and fail, fail over and [...
01:18:19.000 Until they got to where they got to.
01:18:21.000 And still do.
01:18:22.000 They still do.
01:18:23.000 They still fail constantly.
01:18:25.000 We all fail constantly.
01:18:26.000 Yeah.
01:18:27.000 Well, failure is a gift.
01:18:29.000 It really is.
01:18:29.000 Once you make that switch, once you understand it, you can view these losses or these things that happen or these struggles as...
01:18:39.000 I always view them as challenges.
01:18:41.000 Be like, are you going to quit?
01:18:43.000 Are you going to give up?
01:18:44.000 I always view when I'm tired in the ring or on a workout, I'm like...
01:18:49.000 You want to quit?
01:18:50.000 I'm like, fuck you, man.
01:18:51.000 I view that voice in your head.
01:18:54.000 That devil that's looming over your shoulders.
01:18:58.000 You're going to quit.
01:18:59.000 You're a failure.
01:18:59.000 I'm like, you know what?
01:19:01.000 Fuck you.
01:19:02.000 I'm not quitting.
01:19:03.000 I'm never going to quit.
01:19:04.000 I'm never going to stop.
01:19:05.000 And there's nothing you can do.
01:19:06.000 So keep talking, but I'm going forward.
01:19:09.000 Is there a time will you ever get past that and you understand that you're never gonna quit and instead just concentrate on the task at hand?
01:19:18.000 Or do you think that that that voice that you're duking it out with that you take that motherfucker to the grave You definitely take it to the grave.
01:19:29.000 I think we feel like we get farther away from it and we get stronger and we get more confident, but you never get farther away from it.
01:19:39.000 I compare it to my alcoholism.
01:19:42.000 It's like I could go 10 years without ever drinking again, but all it takes is one bad day.
01:19:48.000 We are all one bad day of suffering.
01:19:52.000 Being in the worst situations ever.
01:19:54.000 And that's why it's so important to, you know, you look at people on the streets and things like that, but like, you know how easy that can happen?
01:20:00.000 Like how many bad days or bad situations would it take to turn a successful person into that?
01:20:07.000 Not a lot.
01:20:08.000 Like we're all just balancing on this very delicate thing that, um, It seems like we're all strong and safe and all this, but when the power goes out, the world's going to go to hell like that.
01:20:24.000 We just pretend like it's not because that's how we get through the day.
01:20:27.000 To your point is...
01:20:30.000 I don't think we're ever any farther away from those things that held us back before.
01:20:35.000 We get stronger and we learn how to process them and we understand it more and we understand the series of things that will take us down that road or get us farther away from it, but it's just right there.
01:20:50.000 No matter how much we learn and develop, I think sometimes that makes it even more scarier.
01:20:58.000 It's like the higher you get, the farther you have to fall.
01:21:02.000 And the more you can be aware of that, that you're never going to get farther away from it.
01:21:09.000 You always need to be diligent, that you always need to...
01:21:13.000 Do things that are going to steer you in a more positive way.
01:21:17.000 I think that is the goal to not falling back on that.
01:21:21.000 I think the worst thing that we can do is have this belief that we're past it.
01:21:28.000 It's never going to happen again.
01:21:29.000 I'm not an alcoholic anymore.
01:21:31.000 I'm not a drug addict anymore.
01:21:33.000 I'm not depressed anymore.
01:21:36.000 That's what's helped me.
01:21:40.000 I did think one day I would be so far away from it that it would never be a thought anymore, but by knowing that it's always right there, that keeps me sharp.
01:21:51.000 It's like you need that thing to keep you at your best, or else we start to get lazy.
01:21:57.000 It's that same concept of having people that push you in the gym or in life or etc.
01:22:02.000 If you don't have somebody pushing you, you can only ever push yourself so hard.
01:22:07.000 You might think you're pushing yourself really hard, but you don't really have a basis for where that is.
01:22:12.000 So like for myself, I always run my sprints on a treadmill because a treadmill doesn't lie.
01:22:17.000 This is how fast you're going, and this is how long you're doing it.
01:22:20.000 Now, you can go out on the street and say, I was going as fast as humanly possible, but you're always going to hold yourself back a little bit.
01:22:27.000 That's just the way we are as human beings, that safety net that we have ingrained in us to not go over that edge.
01:22:35.000 But if you're not pushing that edge, you're not developing, and you're always holding yourself back a little bit, a little bit, and no matter how hard you think you're going or how honest you think you're being, unless you Have somebody.
01:22:48.000 It's so important to have people in your lives that keep you in that sharpened state, that question you, that push you.
01:23:00.000 For me, Gina's always been that way for me.
01:23:03.000 That person is like, she's not going to look at me and let me bullshit, keep me honest, sometimes to an extreme extent.
01:23:11.000 I'm like, give me a little bit of a break here.
01:23:13.000 It's like that person that...
01:23:17.000 That pushes you.
01:23:19.000 And it's uncomfortable to be pushed.
01:23:21.000 You don't want to be pushed.
01:23:22.000 I want to relax.
01:23:23.000 I don't want to sit on the beach and drink beers and do all these things.
01:23:26.000 But is that going to help me get to a better place in my life, a better place in my mind, in my heart?
01:23:34.000 No, that's going to allow me to just be a lazy piece of shit and just drift off and die and be no benefit to myself or anyone else for that matter.
01:23:44.000 So as uncomfortable as it is to be pushed and as uncomfortable as it is to be pressured and to want to excel, we all need those things.
01:23:54.000 You're either improving or you're declining.
01:23:57.000 I think that's such an important thing to keep in mind.
01:24:01.000 It's only one or the other.
01:24:03.000 There is no in the middle.
01:24:06.000 It's like the concept of balance.
01:24:08.000 You never find balance.
01:24:10.000 Because once you find it, you lose it.
01:24:12.000 You're always...
01:24:17.000 We're good to go.
01:24:28.000 It forces you to be diligent about all these things and to constantly be trying to find it.
01:24:33.000 And the more you try to find that, the more you're going to develop and learn ways that aren't the right way and then finding what does work.
01:24:43.000 It's like trying to find your calling and your passion in life.
01:24:47.000 It's like you don't have to necessarily know what that is, but Whittle it down by, what don't you want to do?
01:24:53.000 What do you hate?
01:24:55.000 Don't even look like what you like.
01:24:57.000 What do you hate?
01:24:57.000 I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this.
01:24:59.000 I learned very early on at a young age, I do not want to go down this path that I see everybody on.
01:25:06.000 Go to school, get a job, have kids, get married, retire, die.
01:25:12.000 I I don't want that.
01:25:14.000 I don't know what I do want.
01:25:16.000 I just know that, to me, I don't want anything to do with that, and I'm going to go in the exact opposite direction.
01:25:22.000 Whatever that is, as long as I'm far away from that, that's where I'm going to be.
01:25:25.000 Well, it's one of the benefits of being an outsider.
01:25:27.000 Yeah.
01:25:28.000 When you're an outsider and you see all these people that are supposedly doing the right thing, but living in these sort of empty...
01:25:35.000 I think a lot of...
01:26:07.000 I don't know when I realized it Probably when, on paper, I'd already made it.
01:26:13.000 I realized, oh, there's no such place.
01:26:15.000 This is not real.
01:26:17.000 You can't ever...
01:26:19.000 You don't make it.
01:26:20.000 No one makes it.
01:26:22.000 Every day, you have to be trying to do better.
01:26:26.000 First of all, there's no perfect human.
01:26:28.000 Let's accept that.
01:26:29.000 You're always going to be flawed.
01:26:32.000 You're always going to be subject to fits of rage and envy and all the things that you wish that you would never have in your mind.
01:26:40.000 So you've got to constantly be working to make sure that that never happens.
01:26:45.000 You constantly be working to make sure that you're always evaluating your perspective on life and always looking at things.
01:26:53.000 Meditate.
01:26:54.000 Constantly meditate.
01:26:56.000 Make sure that you approach life with a learned perspective.
01:27:01.000 Like you're a better person than you were the day before.
01:27:04.000 And whatever you're trying to do, whether it's fighting or whether you have an art form that you practice, whatever it is that you're doing, You're trying to do better every day and you never, even if you accomplish some amazing work of art,
01:27:19.000 that's just that day.
01:27:21.000 The next day you got to go back to work.
01:27:23.000 Like if you have a world championship fight and you've trained for eight weeks and you win by knockout and the spectacular result and you're very happy with the result, you got a day or two to relax.
01:27:35.000 Yeah.
01:27:35.000 You've got a day or two, and then you're like, fuck, okay, now what?
01:27:38.000 Well, now you've got to get back to work.
01:27:40.000 And if you think that there's some place, like a movie, where you're holding hands with your loved ones and the fucking sunset's going on and the credits roll, that's horseshit.
01:27:50.000 And we have this idea in our head that there's this place that you can get to where you've...
01:27:54.000 Air quotes, made it.
01:27:56.000 And I'm here to tell you, that motherfucker doesn't exist.
01:27:59.000 I mean, obviously I'm not the most successful person in the world, but on paper, I've accomplished a lot of shit, and it doesn't mean a goddamn thing.
01:28:07.000 Every fucking day, every fucking day I get up and I'm like, alright, I've got to figure out how to do this, I've got to work on this new bit.
01:28:14.000 Okay, I got this podcast today.
01:28:16.000 I got to be on point.
01:28:17.000 Let me think about this.
01:28:18.000 Let me read this book.
01:28:19.000 Let me, you know, whatever the subject is.
01:28:21.000 Let me get into it.
01:28:24.000 You have to.
01:28:25.000 If you don't, you're going to feel like shit.
01:28:28.000 Yeah, it's that destination mentality.
01:28:31.000 Yeah, there's no destination.
01:28:33.000 It's just a journey.
01:28:34.000 You're never going to get there.
01:28:35.000 It doesn't exist.
01:28:37.000 There's nowhere to go.
01:28:38.000 There's nowhere to go.
01:28:40.000 As soon as you get there, you're like, geez, I'm just as far away from that thing that I thought because as you develop, the things that you think you want develop too.
01:28:48.000 Like, oh, one day I'm going to be rich, but the richer you get, the richer you want to become.
01:28:53.000 Well, then you start filling up your life with these meaningless destinations, right?
01:28:57.000 Which are material objects.
01:28:58.000 Like, I want a fucking yacht, bitch.
01:29:00.000 I want a jet.
01:29:02.000 And you're like, I want a bigger jet.
01:29:04.000 Tom's got a fucking jet, but I want a big jet.
01:29:06.000 I want a show.
01:29:07.000 I'll pull my jet up beside his jet.
01:29:08.000 Let him know, motherfucker, there's levels to this game.
01:29:11.000 And that's what people do.
01:29:13.000 They fill their lives up with meaningless possessions.
01:29:17.000 And they still aren't happy.
01:29:20.000 Use it as a band-aid to cover up what is the real thing here.
01:29:23.000 Do you know how many really successful people I know that are fucking medicated to shit?
01:29:27.000 All of them.
01:29:28.000 A lot of them.
01:29:29.000 More so than the people that aren't in a lot of ways.
01:29:34.000 The people that struggle, they're on a better medication.
01:29:38.000 For real.
01:29:39.000 The struggle of a hard-working person that can get done with a day of hard work and have a feeling of accomplishment and then go home to your family and get going again, knowing you have to get up in the morning and do it again, knowing you don't have enough money to buy a yacht, but knowing you have enough money to put food on the table and there's a satisfaction to be able to provide that,
01:29:57.000 that's a better medicine.
01:29:59.000 Well, that's the thing with why it's so important and vital to travel and go to these third world countries.
01:30:06.000 These people literally have nothing and are inviting perfect strangers into their homes and giving them things that they do not even have themselves.
01:30:16.000 Like, why are these people so happy?
01:30:18.000 Why are they so at peace?
01:30:19.000 Right.
01:30:20.000 Because they understand what's important.
01:30:22.000 It's not this materialistic thing.
01:30:25.000 And that's not to say that materials are bad, but we view them as these objects of success.
01:30:32.000 And I've made it, and things are perfect in my life.
01:30:36.000 And they do the exact opposite in a lot of ways.
01:30:40.000 If you don't have a...
01:30:43.000 Good grasp of what's really important in this life.
01:30:48.000 And unfortunately, a lot of times we need everything taken away for us to really understand what those things really are.
01:30:55.000 Yeah.
01:30:55.000 You can appreciate some things.
01:30:57.000 You can appreciate a nice car or a nice house.
01:30:59.000 But if you get really caught up in them, you are trying to fill up a bucket with a hole in it.
01:31:04.000 And it's never going to fill up.
01:31:06.000 You're always just going to look for bigger and bigger things to try to fill that bucket up.
01:31:09.000 And you're going to feel...
01:31:11.000 Full of anxiety all the time, chasing that.
01:31:14.000 And there's no real satisfaction.
01:31:18.000 That's why, you know, when you look at, one of the things that people look at, when you look at people that are extremely materialistic, that, you know, wear the most fancy jewelry and drive the most fancy cars and the biggest houses, we always think they're shallow.
01:31:32.000 Always.
01:31:33.000 I mean, isn't that funny?
01:31:34.000 Like, the thing that you would look at in terms of, like, markers for success.
01:31:40.000 Markers is like...
01:31:43.000 Material things are the big ones, right?
01:31:45.000 They're the big markers for success.
01:31:47.000 The big house.
01:31:48.000 That's the big one, right?
01:31:49.000 Big ass fucking mansion.
01:31:50.000 Look at this mansion.
01:31:51.000 Big everything.
01:31:51.000 Big fucking rock on its finger.
01:31:54.000 Big chain.
01:31:56.000 Big this, big that.
01:31:58.000 There's nothing there.
01:31:59.000 There's nothing there.
01:32:00.000 And so ingrained in us from the time that we're born.
01:32:03.000 Because it's hard to get.
01:32:05.000 That's why it's a trick.
01:32:06.000 It's one of those things that's hard to get, so you think you want to get it.
01:32:09.000 Because there's a lot of things that are hard to get that are worth getting.
01:32:12.000 For sure.
01:32:12.000 Right?
01:32:13.000 I mean, becoming a great fighter is hard, but it's worth doing.
01:32:16.000 Because once you do do it, and you realize, like, there's an expression that I've used before, but my Taekwondo instructor said to me when I was a little boy, he said, martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.
01:32:29.000 Yeah.
01:32:29.000 And I remember that.
01:32:30.000 I'm like, oh, shit.
01:32:32.000 And I've used that many times, explained it to people.
01:32:35.000 But that is the benefit of getting good at a martial art.
01:32:39.000 You go through this difficult thing, and then through that, you reap all these personality rewards.
01:32:45.000 You reap these character rewards.
01:32:48.000 You reap this understanding of what you're capable of.
01:32:50.000 If you...
01:32:51.000 Are capable of making it through a brutal camp and getting up in the morning when you know you don't want to, that alarm clock goes off and you're like, I don't want to fucking run.
01:32:59.000 But you do it.
01:33:00.000 You go out and run and you do it every day and you get through it and then you're successful.
01:33:05.000 And you realize that you have this incredible endurance because of the discipline that you put in.
01:33:09.000 You realize that you have this incredible skill and this understanding of how to fight correctly because of all the time and the hours and the focus.
01:33:15.000 You're a better person because of that, right?
01:33:17.000 That's a real goal.
01:33:19.000 But that yacht...
01:33:21.000 You know?
01:33:21.000 Like, I'm gonna work 16 hours a day so I can get a bigger yacht.
01:33:26.000 And then, you know, I need a house with bigger windows.
01:33:30.000 There's a nonsense to that.
01:33:32.000 Like, look, I'm not saying if you can afford a nice house Get a fucking nice house.
01:33:37.000 It's great to have a nice house.
01:33:38.000 What I'm saying is it's not the end.
01:33:40.000 It's you.
01:33:42.000 You are the project.
01:33:44.000 Your mind is the project.
01:33:46.000 How you treat people is the project.
01:33:49.000 The way you are with your family and your friends and your loved ones and the people you communicate with, get better at that.
01:33:57.000 That's the goal in this life.
01:33:59.000 The goal in this life is how we treat each other.
01:34:01.000 I know, and I wish these were things that were taught.
01:34:06.000 No, no, no, no, it's better.
01:34:07.000 It's better that you didn't learn it that way.
01:34:08.000 Because you had to figure it out yourself.
01:34:09.000 Yes, because you had to figure it out yourself, and because you can explain it to people.
01:34:13.000 That's true.
01:34:14.000 You, in particular, that you can explain it to people, having gone through this horrific adversity, and come out on the other end with a message.
01:34:22.000 Yeah.
01:34:22.000 And so other people that are going through some tough shit, you've got the medicine.
01:34:27.000 The medicine is your, you've actually experienced it.
01:34:30.000 And, you know, it's a map.
01:34:32.000 It's a map of the territory.
01:34:33.000 It's not a fucking pill that you can take and all of a sudden everything's going to be better.
01:34:37.000 But what it is is a map of the territory and a knowledge.
01:34:42.000 Hey, you can get through these woods and on the other side there's a beautiful green meadow and there's a lake and it's really nice.
01:34:50.000 Yeah, for sure.
01:34:51.000 You know, I think that was one of the benefits of the way I grew up, which was really hard and horrible, but I got to see firsthand both sides of money.
01:35:01.000 You know, I went from living in a basement with five other people and living on welfare to living with my father in a mansion.
01:35:09.000 And it's like...
01:35:11.000 Oh, yeah.
01:35:12.000 All this money and all this stuff is just emptiness and meaningless and it doesn't necessarily equate to real happiness.
01:35:21.000 No, it doesn't.
01:35:21.000 And like, why are we all chasing this so hard?
01:35:24.000 And I got to see that firsthand very, very early on.
01:35:27.000 I was like, I don't want this at all.
01:35:30.000 Well, it's a trick.
01:35:31.000 It's like the same reason why people love to play video games.
01:35:34.000 Yeah.
01:35:34.000 Because they're difficult.
01:35:36.000 Uh-huh.
01:35:36.000 But there's no real reward, unless you're a professional video game player and you make a living doing it.
01:35:41.000 There's no real reward.
01:35:43.000 You just get better at it and you get some sort of a sense of satisfaction.
01:35:47.000 I mean, there's something to be gained from it.
01:35:50.000 In fact, some video games they've actually shown can increase your cognitive performance and other things, similar to the way chess does.
01:35:57.000 But the trap is that they're hard to do.
01:36:02.000 Mm-hmm.
01:36:03.000 So when we see things that are difficult, human beings are sort of puzzle and problem-solving oriented.
01:36:09.000 We see puzzles we want to solve, and we see mysteries we want to find out.
01:36:13.000 That's why everybody's into, like, Bigfoot and UFOs and shit, because it's a mystery.
01:36:16.000 Oh, what is it?
01:36:18.000 What do you think it is?
01:36:19.000 Like, we have a natural inclination to try to solve things like that.
01:36:23.000 And we think that because...
01:36:26.000 In life, look, if you try to solve where the food is, you survive.
01:36:29.000 That's what made us alive.
01:36:31.000 That's why our DNA has been passed down for all these hundreds of thousands of years.
01:36:35.000 Because our ancestors figured out where the food is.
01:36:38.000 They figured out how to drill a hole in the ice and fish.
01:36:43.000 They figured out how to survive.
01:36:46.000 This is why things that are difficult to do are attractive to us.
01:36:50.000 But we have to be able to differentiate between things that are difficult and meaningful and things that are difficult and bullshit.
01:36:57.000 You know Brian Callen?
01:36:58.000 My friend Brian Callen said something to me once when we were really young.
01:37:01.000 And it was the perfect thing.
01:37:03.000 We were both in our 20s.
01:37:04.000 And he said, all you want is enough money so you don't have to worry about what something costs when you go to a restaurant.
01:37:11.000 He's like, everything else is bullshit.
01:37:13.000 I was like, you're right.
01:37:14.000 That feeling of being able to have enough money to just get a nice meal at a restaurant and not sweat it.
01:37:21.000 Everything else is gravy.
01:37:23.000 They've done countless studies on this.
01:37:26.000 Once your basic human needs are met, you have food, shelter.
01:37:31.000 Yeah.
01:38:01.000 Yeah.
01:38:13.000 Yeah, I think the study was like, they said $80,000.
01:38:16.000 Like, everything over $80,000, you really don't experience any much more.
01:38:22.000 Before that, you get into like $40,000, $30,000.
01:38:26.000 Well, now you're struggling.
01:38:27.000 It's hard to feed yourself.
01:38:28.000 It's a weight on your shoulders.
01:38:30.000 Mm-hmm.
01:38:31.000 But once you hit a certain number, it's like, you're going to be alright.
01:38:34.000 Yeah, you're not going to be on the street.
01:38:36.000 Yeah, you're living.
01:38:37.000 I remember I lived in this apartment, this kind of shitty apartment, and then I moved to a better apartment.
01:38:44.000 And then I was sitting in this better apartment, and I was like, I'm kind of used to this.
01:38:47.000 Like, I'm used to this.
01:38:48.000 Like, this is just home now.
01:38:49.000 There's a feeling when you get when you're home.
01:38:51.000 Like, alright, I'm home.
01:38:52.000 Now I'm in this other apartment.
01:38:53.000 It just costs more money.
01:38:55.000 You know, like, okay.
01:38:56.000 I remember thinking that, like, is this better?
01:38:58.000 I mean, I guess it's better, but it costs twice as much.
01:39:01.000 Like, now I gotta fucking think about how I'm gonna pay for this bitch.
01:39:04.000 Yeah.
01:39:05.000 Well, yeah, I think about, like, when I had, like, $5 in the bank, or when I had $5,000 in the bank, like, did I feel different?
01:39:14.000 I didn't feel different at all.
01:39:16.000 No.
01:39:16.000 You know, I might have felt different, like, when I go out to eat and the check comes, like, how am I gonna pay for this?
01:39:21.000 Kind of thing.
01:39:22.000 But emotionally, I didn't feel any different whatsoever.
01:39:27.000 Yeah.
01:39:28.000 And yeah, I think that's such an important lesson for all of us to learn.
01:39:32.000 And the sooner you figure those things out, the better.
01:39:37.000 Like so many things in life we figure out so late, if ever.
01:39:41.000 When we're kids, we look at adults, our parents, those in authority, and we think, oh, they got it figured out.
01:39:47.000 You had a really good joke about this, about thinking...
01:39:50.000 The older you get, the more you understand life and how things are going on.
01:39:54.000 But the older you get, nobody knows what the fuck is going on and everyone's out here just winging it.
01:39:59.000 Like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.
01:40:01.000 I'm just kind of trying my best.
01:40:03.000 But I'm like, oh, maybe I should look to my parents for advice.
01:40:06.000 Like, geez, they're really just adult kids.
01:40:08.000 Like, they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
01:40:10.000 Yeah, the bit was, do you remember when you thought that grown-ups were real?
01:40:14.000 They don't exist.
01:40:15.000 Like, I used to think that one day, I was crying, I was young, I was so upset.
01:40:20.000 One day I'm gonna be a grown-up, and everything's gonna make sense.
01:40:22.000 And then one day, you're at the supermarket, and the guy goes, paper or plastic, sir?
01:40:27.000 And you're like, sir?
01:40:28.000 I'm a sir?
01:40:29.000 Am I a grown-up?
01:40:31.000 Fuck, this is it?
01:40:32.000 And then you realize no one knows any more than you about what this is all about.
01:40:36.000 You might have more data in your head.
01:40:39.000 You might have more experience.
01:40:41.000 You might be a brain surgeon.
01:40:42.000 You might know how to build rockets.
01:40:43.000 You might be smarter than me.
01:40:44.000 But you don't have any fucking idea what this is.
01:40:47.000 No one does.
01:40:48.000 You cannot.
01:40:51.000 I like to think there are really no facts.
01:40:54.000 Everything is a theory because...
01:40:57.000 We could all be asleep in a dream right now, or hooked up to a machine.
01:41:01.000 Nobody knows that for sure, so how can you possibly say anything is factual?
01:41:06.000 You can say things are factual with the information that's in front of you, but that information might be bullshit.
01:41:11.000 And ten years from now, we might have a completely different perspective on things that we're doing now that we think are right, and this is the way life is, this is the way the world is.
01:41:22.000 Ten years ago, people had a very different approach to things.
01:41:25.000 What we can say is, as far as we know, this is the case.
01:41:29.000 And this is what we know is repeatable.
01:41:32.000 If you do this, if you put two bricks on top of two bricks, you have four bricks.
01:41:37.000 We're pretty sure.
01:41:38.000 But maybe not.
01:41:39.000 But we might be in a dream.
01:41:40.000 Yeah, like we could all be wrong.
01:41:42.000 And that's why I think it's so stupid to judge other people's beliefs and be like, Oh, your way is the right way.
01:41:50.000 You got it figured out.
01:41:52.000 Everybody else is crazy, but you think it...
01:41:54.000 I'm like, don't you think that they think the exact same thing you do?
01:41:57.000 Well, there's a problem today, and there's a lot of people out there giving advice.
01:42:01.000 And this is what's interesting.
01:42:04.000 Sometimes advice, it resonates, and then you get older and wiser, and you realize that advice is really fucking stupid.
01:42:11.000 Because you have...
01:42:14.000 There's people that are giving advice, and there's a lot of value in motivating people, right?
01:42:24.000 When someone's a legitimately motivational person, whether it's Wim Hof, the Iceman, or someone who's really done some things, there's something about them that their inspiration is fuel.
01:42:36.000 It really does something to you.
01:42:39.000 But then there's a lot of people out there that are just saying shit because they think it's going to be motivating to other people and it sounds like horseshit.
01:42:48.000 And it only tricks dummies.
01:42:50.000 And that stuff is painfully prevalent.
01:42:55.000 There's so much of it.
01:42:56.000 There's so many people out there that are trying to offer advice and they're trying to motivate people.
01:43:03.000 But then you go, hey man, what have you experienced?
01:43:06.000 They've had a placid, dull life filled with non-accomplishments.
01:43:12.000 Their biggest accomplishment is tricking people into thinking they're a good motivational speaker.
01:43:16.000 Like the get-rich-quick thing.
01:43:18.000 Oh, there's so many of those!
01:43:19.000 This is how they've gotten rich.
01:43:21.000 Sure, yeah.
01:43:22.000 Dude, I was watching a documentary on one of those guys, one of these internet guys who rents houses and rents cars and tries to pretend he's this big baller and spends all this money and ran a bunch of scam dating sites and all these different things.
01:43:36.000 And I'm like, wow, this is...
01:43:37.000 This pursuit is odd.
01:43:40.000 It's a fucking odd thing.
01:43:42.000 This pursuit of tricking people into thinking that you're more knowledgeable than you actually are.
01:43:47.000 What resonates with people is like what you were talking about from the beginning of this podcast.
01:43:53.000 When you're talking about your life and how you felt...
01:43:57.000 And your own real legitimate experiences and the feelings of inadequacy and then the finding the light at the end of the tunnel and all these different things that are just, you're relaying your life's lessons and experiences.
01:44:11.000 Those are extremely valuable for people.
01:44:13.000 Those are extremely valuable.
01:44:15.000 But because people know they're extremely valuable, there's a lot of bullshitters out there that are trying to concoct these things.
01:44:22.000 Yeah.
01:44:22.000 And trick you and like, this is how I got this mansion.
01:44:25.000 You can get this mansion too.
01:44:26.000 You can make...
01:44:27.000 I'm going to show you here on a whiteboard.
01:44:28.000 This is what you can do.
01:44:29.000 And like, they're just horse shitting.
01:44:31.000 Yeah.
01:44:31.000 But there's money in that.
01:44:33.000 And so there's a lot of them.
01:44:34.000 There's like, they pop up all the time.
01:44:36.000 I get emails from them.
01:44:37.000 I get fucking Instagram messages.
01:44:39.000 I see them like, hey, I want to come on your show and motivate people.
01:44:43.000 I'm really about motivating people.
01:44:45.000 Like, bro, you're 22. The fuck are you motivating?
01:44:48.000 You ain't motivating shit.
01:44:49.000 Yeah.
01:44:51.000 Go move to Nepal for a year.
01:44:53.000 Yeah, and it's also such a tricky thing.
01:44:56.000 Even for myself, it's like, of course I want to motivate people.
01:45:00.000 I want to help people.
01:45:01.000 But you can start drifting into that, now I'm a motivational speaker.
01:45:06.000 Now I'm not being honest.
01:45:07.000 Now I'm not communicating the full spectrum of the things that I'm dealing with and going through.
01:45:15.000 I'm only going to focus on this positive thing.
01:45:17.000 Like, oh, just do this, this, and this.
01:45:19.000 And you're going to go the right way.
01:45:20.000 And oftentimes it's because they don't have someone in their life, like the way you were describing Gina.
01:45:24.000 Yeah.
01:45:25.000 Someone who's, hey, fuckface.
01:45:26.000 You're being an asshole.
01:45:27.000 Yeah.
01:45:28.000 Pull your head out of your ass.
01:45:29.000 You have to have someone in your life that's raw with you, that's real with you.
01:45:33.000 And for me, it's my friends.
01:45:34.000 It's definitely my wife.
01:45:35.000 She doesn't bullshit me about anything.
01:45:36.000 Yeah.
01:45:37.000 Those people are a giant in your life.
01:45:39.000 You gotta have people that check you.
01:45:41.000 Yes.
01:45:41.000 They have to know you, too.
01:45:43.000 They have to know you.
01:45:43.000 You can't hide anything from them.
01:45:45.000 A lot of us tend to have these, what would the word be?
01:45:52.000 I don't know.
01:45:53.000 These people in our lives, they're only there because you're doing something for them.
01:45:59.000 Yeah, but those people aren't pushing you.
01:46:01.000 They're yes men.
01:46:02.000 Yeah, they're parasites.
01:46:03.000 They're parasites.
01:46:05.000 It's not a real relationship.
01:46:07.000 No.
01:46:07.000 It's not a relationship you're going to grow through.
01:46:10.000 That's a relationship that's going to make you feel good.
01:46:13.000 Yes.
01:46:13.000 And in a lot of ways.
01:46:15.000 And yeah, that's fun and comfortable.
01:46:17.000 But if that person can't get to the core of you and really be like, when you tell me something, I know it's truth because you have no other reason to say bullshit to me.
01:46:29.000 Right.
01:46:29.000 You don't.
01:46:29.000 You don't need anything from me.
01:46:32.000 That's giant for people.
01:46:34.000 This is one thing that I've seen many times with celebrities.
01:46:38.000 When they go off the rails and they don't hang out with other people like them.
01:46:43.000 So they don't have real friends.
01:46:46.000 They have these employees and it gets real sketchy.
01:46:50.000 And everyone that they talk to and interact with needs something from them and they assume this position of authority.
01:46:58.000 Where no one can question them.
01:47:01.000 No one can call bullshit.
01:47:03.000 You've got to have peers.
01:47:05.000 It's very important.
01:47:06.000 If you don't have the respect and the friendship of your peers, man, you're adrift.
01:47:11.000 You're not tethered.
01:47:13.000 You're out there in orbit just fucking floating around.
01:47:15.000 You're another dimension.
01:47:16.000 Yeah, not good.
01:47:18.000 It's easy to get there, too.
01:47:19.000 Very easy.
01:47:20.000 Much easier.
01:47:22.000 Especially for successful people.
01:47:23.000 People start kissing your ass.
01:47:25.000 Yeah, I'm like, oh, this is nice.
01:47:26.000 I don't need to deal with this bullshit.
01:47:28.000 I'm going to have these people around me that make me feel good and say yes to me and bring me all the things that I want and give me no stress.
01:47:34.000 When I meet people like that, I go, you should do jujitsu.
01:47:36.000 Yeah.
01:47:37.000 Go get choked.
01:47:39.000 They'll tell you the truth.
01:47:40.000 That's such an important thing.
01:47:41.000 Anything physical like that.
01:47:43.000 Yeah.
01:47:44.000 Is extremely, I think, vital for everyone.
01:47:47.000 I mean, particularly kids coming up.
01:47:49.000 Yeah.
01:47:49.000 Putting kids into athletics and martial arts.
01:47:52.000 Fuck yeah.
01:47:53.000 And if you don't like martial arts, look, you can't fake a marathon.
01:47:56.000 Yeah.
01:47:57.000 26.2 needs to be run.
01:47:59.000 You need to go left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot, until you hit the fucking finish line.
01:48:02.000 Period.
01:48:03.000 End of discussion.
01:48:04.000 Yeah.
01:48:04.000 If you don't do that, you don't get there.
01:48:05.000 You can't fake it.
01:48:06.000 You can fake a lot of shit.
01:48:08.000 Yeah.
01:48:09.000 There's a lot of shit you could fake, but moving your body, you can't really fake that.
01:48:14.000 You've got to do it.
01:48:15.000 A 90-minute yoga class is 90 fucking minutes.
01:48:18.000 It's hot as shit, and you're in there sweating your balls off, and you've got to get to the end.
01:48:24.000 You've got to get to the end.
01:48:26.000 It's a small thing.
01:48:27.000 That's a small thing.
01:48:28.000 Life is a big thing.
01:48:30.000 But these small things that you can do, they'll help you understand what's necessary to get through the big things.
01:48:38.000 It's all macro and micro.
01:48:40.000 It's all connected in some strange way.
01:48:44.000 I'm glad you talked about all this stuff, man.
01:48:46.000 Thank you.
01:48:46.000 All of it from the beginning, you know, and then leading up to the thing with your stepmom.
01:48:51.000 People, you know, people need to hear from a guy like you that looks like, you know, you're a cool cat.
01:48:57.000 You got your shit together.
01:48:59.000 Well, you know, it would have been very easy for me just to come on here and ask the bullshit about fighting and that kind of thing.
01:49:06.000 We can do that too, though.
01:49:06.000 Yeah, we can definitely do that.
01:49:09.000 You know, it's important for me just to be honest with all the aspects of my life and to not start drifting into that, just this surface, you know, this is who I am and, you know.
01:49:23.000 Image.
01:49:24.000 Image mentality and, yeah, I'm very aware of not wanting to be there.
01:49:32.000 Yeah.
01:49:33.000 And trying to always express myself honestly.
01:49:37.000 It's a trap.
01:49:37.000 Yeah.
01:49:38.000 Yeah.
01:49:38.000 Yeah.
01:49:39.000 The image thing is a trap.
01:49:41.000 It's not bad to look good, but to concentrate on your image above truth and honesty is a real trap.
01:49:49.000 I think fighters fall into that category a lot because fighting is so fucking...
01:49:56.000 It's so perilous.
01:49:58.000 You don't know what the future holds.
01:50:00.000 You have no idea.
01:50:01.000 Every time you train, you can tear an ACL. You really have no idea.
01:50:05.000 And you're relying on your tissue to feed yourself, right?
01:50:09.000 Your tissue and your cells and physical motion and action, that's what you do for a living.
01:50:15.000 It's so perilous.
01:50:17.000 There's so many things that could go wrong.
01:50:22.000 When you think about an actual fight itself, I think back to this past weekend with Cowboy and Connor, and looking at Cowboy, the weight of the moment in his eyes,
01:50:38.000 you could see him warming up, and he talked about it.
01:50:40.000 There's this video that they played before the fight.
01:50:43.000 Which he goes through all of the nervousness that he experiences before he fights.
01:50:49.000 Goes through all the faking it and smiling and pretending he's cool.
01:50:53.000 And meanwhile inside he's freaking the fuck out and all that stuff.
01:50:56.000 That adds to this need to make everything look great.
01:51:03.000 Yeah, yeah, for sure.
01:51:05.000 Yeah, we want to be viewed as superhuman.
01:51:10.000 Yeah.
01:51:11.000 Yeah, and none of us are.
01:51:12.000 No.
01:51:14.000 My favorite piece on that was Mike Tyson in his Prime.
01:51:18.000 Remember Mike Tyson, that documentary where he talked about his mindset, walking to the ring?
01:51:23.000 I was afraid.
01:51:24.000 Yeah.
01:51:25.000 Yeah.
01:51:25.000 About not losing.
01:51:26.000 Yeah.
01:51:26.000 And then I'm a god.
01:51:27.000 Yeah, once again, I'm a god.
01:51:30.000 Yeah.
01:51:31.000 That gives me fucking goosebumps every time.
01:51:34.000 Yeah.
01:51:34.000 You know?
01:51:35.000 Because he would just put himself into this state of mind.
01:51:38.000 Mm-hmm.
01:51:38.000 You know, Custom Auto used to hypnotize him when he was 13?
01:51:41.000 Oh, yeah.
01:51:42.000 Yeah.
01:51:42.000 Yeah.
01:51:44.000 I didn't know about that until he was on the podcast.
01:51:45.000 I don't even know if he ever talked about it.
01:51:47.000 Oh, yeah.
01:51:48.000 But he was talking about how when he was a kid, like this guy, he went from being this really, you know, poor kid who was abandoned, no love, a constant crime and terrible poverty around him.
01:52:04.000 To all of a sudden, he's getting all this love for doing this one thing, for smashing people.
01:52:10.000 And he found himself with one of the greatest boxing minds that's ever lived in Customato, who's explaining to him fear and motivation, all these different things.
01:52:19.000 And he's hypnotizing him.
01:52:21.000 So he's hypnotizing this 13-year-old kid to smash people and saying, you don't exist, only the task exists.
01:52:28.000 Yeah.
01:52:30.000 Yeah.
01:52:48.000 He's got the greatest one he's ever seen.
01:52:50.000 But he's a dying man.
01:52:52.000 And this kid's 13. And this kid is just...
01:52:54.000 He was 190 pounds when he was 13. Teddy Atlas said he would bring him to these smokers and no one would believe it.
01:53:02.000 They would go, how old is that kid?
01:53:04.000 He goes, he's 13. He was like, get the fuck out of here.
01:53:07.000 And he's like, okay, how old do you think he is?
01:53:09.000 He's like 16. All right, he's 16. Put him in there with a 16-year-old and he would smash some 16-year-old.
01:53:15.000 He was just built insane.
01:53:17.000 He just had insane genetics.
01:53:18.000 And then on top of that, he had the greatest mind ever when it comes to motivation and understanding and fear and boxing.
01:53:26.000 A guy who studied it his entire life and he's a hypnotist.
01:53:30.000 And he's hypnotizing this young 13-year-old kid to smash people.
01:53:33.000 And the results?
01:53:35.000 Youngest ever heavyweight champion and one of the scariest fucking fighters in the history of sport.
01:53:39.000 There he is.
01:53:40.000 In the Catskills.
01:53:42.000 I mean, that's also raised in isolation in the fucking Catskills up in the mountains.
01:53:47.000 Fuck, what a story.
01:53:48.000 It's a goddamn movie.
01:53:49.000 Yeah.
01:53:50.000 Oh, and then you think about how amazing that was for him as an athlete, but how detrimental that was to him as a human being and all the things he's had to...
01:54:00.000 Develop so much later in life and like, yeah, you understand like why he was fucking nuts.
01:54:05.000 Yes.
01:54:05.000 You know, like you expect these people to be normal when they're doing this thing.
01:54:09.000 Right.
01:54:09.000 Why do we expect that?
01:54:10.000 Right.
01:54:11.000 Like you want these people to be these amazing athletes and these savages and these things, but then when they're human beings on the outside, it's like, oh, well, that's a piece of shit.
01:54:20.000 Like you can't have it.
01:54:22.000 It's difficult to have it both ways.
01:54:24.000 Yeah.
01:54:24.000 Well, it's also human beings are so incredibly nuanced.
01:54:28.000 And when someone does a thing wrong, we want their whole to be wrong.
01:54:33.000 Everything who they are.
01:54:35.000 We want a one or a zero.
01:54:37.000 We want a black or a white.
01:54:39.000 And particularly when you're dealing with people like fighters that are dealing with this insane amount of pressure and this incredible emotional rollercoaster ride.
01:54:50.000 And then on top of that, why did they become fighters in the first place?
01:54:54.000 Mm-hmm.
01:54:54.000 Almost all of them.
01:54:56.000 I mean, let's just be real generous and say 75%.
01:54:59.000 75% of them came from a fucked up childhood.
01:55:02.000 There's 25% of them maybe that just really enjoy competition.
01:55:05.000 But 75% came from a feeling of deficit.
01:55:09.000 75% came from a fuck you, I'm going to show you.
01:55:12.000 They came from this thing.
01:55:13.000 And people that come from that thing, they're not...
01:55:16.000 The most balanced folks, they're going to make mistakes, you know?
01:55:19.000 And compassion and understanding and the ability to forgive, those are some of the most important aspects of community and of friendship and of the human race.
01:55:32.000 We have to be able to be compassionate towards people that have experienced a different life than we have.
01:55:37.000 And we have to be able to forgive people when they fuck up.
01:55:40.000 And we can't just write them off.
01:55:41.000 And that's one of the weirder things about today with this whole cancel culture shit.
01:55:45.000 Like people just want to decide, you know, like based on a tweet someone said or something someone did.
01:55:52.000 That's it.
01:55:53.000 You're canceled forever.
01:55:54.000 Get out!
01:55:55.000 Kill them!
01:55:56.000 Death!
01:55:56.000 Off with their head!
01:55:57.000 It's almost like there's too many of us.
01:56:01.000 It's almost like people in traffic.
01:56:02.000 We don't value each other because there's so many people that we just have an overwhelming abundance of human beings.
01:56:12.000 You can cancel somebody and you don't even think about them.
01:56:15.000 Get rid of them!
01:56:15.000 Who's next?
01:56:17.000 It's so much easier for us to be judgmental and have a voice and to say, you're wrong.
01:56:22.000 I'm justified in the way I am because I've never done that.
01:56:25.000 So I'm a good person and you're a bad person.
01:56:28.000 Right.
01:56:28.000 Because we don't want to look inside and be like, we're all fucked up.
01:56:31.000 We all do horrible things.
01:56:32.000 We all do really awful things to each other and these people are in the spotlight.
01:56:36.000 So it's easy to point at them and make yourself feel better about the things that you haven't done or justified in your actions.
01:56:43.000 But we're all fucked up and we all make mistakes and we all need some sympathy and love and we all need these things.
01:56:51.000 Yeah.
01:56:51.000 We're all human.
01:56:53.000 Humans need love.
01:56:54.000 We need sympathy.
01:56:55.000 We need understanding.
01:56:56.000 And we need to be able to say, I'm sorry.
01:56:59.000 And we need other people to be able to accept that.
01:57:01.000 We need to be able to communicate with each other.
01:57:04.000 And also, cancel culture, I think, is born out of social media because it's the most bizarre way to communicate ever.
01:57:11.000 A one-way text message to the world.
01:57:15.000 Yeah.
01:57:15.000 That everybody's going to see.
01:57:17.000 That everybody sees.
01:57:18.000 That you don't know.
01:57:18.000 Right.
01:57:19.000 And then also, people are sending these...
01:57:21.000 You know, really disingenuous ones just hoping that people like them more because of the things they're saying, which is like a sport now.
01:57:29.000 It's like, let's see how many likes I can get.
01:57:30.000 Ooh, I got ding, ding, ding.
01:57:32.000 I got a thousand likes.
01:57:32.000 And then you feel justified in your opinions.
01:57:34.000 Yes!
01:57:35.000 And then that becomes who you are.
01:57:36.000 I'm an activist.
01:57:37.000 Bitch, you're just complaining to the void.
01:57:39.000 Just screaming out into the world.
01:57:41.000 That's, you know, we're living through strange times, man.
01:57:45.000 Well, it's the cancel culture and I view it as the team culture of everything is what's, I think, one of the more detrimental things to humanity is you're either on this side or that side and our side's right,
01:58:00.000 your side's wrong.
01:58:02.000 Most of us are somewhere in the middle.
01:58:04.000 Yeah.
01:58:04.000 But we can't have an in-the-middle conversation because it's you're with them or you're with us.
01:58:10.000 Yeah.
01:58:11.000 I want to know how people think if I disagree with them.
01:58:14.000 I like talking to people I disagree with.
01:58:16.000 Well, that's really one thing I really love about your show is your ability to...
01:58:26.000 We're good to go.
01:58:27.000 We're good to go.
01:58:53.000 You know, a big thing for me coming up was we can learn from everyone, even if it's what not to do.
01:59:00.000 Yes!
01:59:00.000 That is so vital in everything.
01:59:04.000 But for me in training, it was like, yeah, this person doesn't know what the fuck they're doing, but maybe one day I'm going to face somebody like that, so maybe I should kind of get a little grasp of their mentality, and that just applies to life.
01:59:15.000 Yeah.
01:59:17.000 Maybe you don't agree with their thought process, but you can at least understand it and know what it is you do and don't like.
01:59:26.000 Know what your beliefs are.
01:59:27.000 You've got to take a step outside of your beliefs to understand, is that even what you believe or is it just the way you were raised and the way you grew up?
01:59:35.000 Do you really believe these things?
01:59:37.000 Have you ever taken a step outside of them or listened to somebody else's It's hard because you don't get that many conversations with people where you disagree with them and it's not confrontational.
01:59:57.000 Usually they're confrontational or you're confrontational.
02:00:00.000 So it always starts off on the bad foot.
02:00:02.000 I've learned how to do it from doing this podcast and one of the most surprising things about doing this podcast is I've learned how to talk to people better.
02:00:11.000 I didn't think that was a thing.
02:00:13.000 I thought I just was talking to people.
02:00:16.000 But then I realized somewhere along the way, not only are people listening, but sometimes I'm annoying.
02:00:22.000 How do I do this where I'm less annoying?
02:00:26.000 And in learning how to do things that are less annoying, I've become a more compassionate conversationalist.
02:00:31.000 I understand how to talk to people better.
02:00:33.000 I apply it to my whole life now.
02:00:36.000 I've gotten better at it, and I see people who are bad at it.
02:00:39.000 It's so frustrating.
02:00:40.000 Like, I have some really smart friends, and, you know, I talk to them, and they just fucking interrupt each other, and they interrupt you, and they don't let anybody talk.
02:00:49.000 They're not listening.
02:00:50.000 They're just waiting for their time to talk, and it's so strange.
02:00:54.000 They're not able to ever consider other people's opinions.
02:00:57.000 They think that everyone but them is wrong, and it's...
02:01:02.000 It's basically like, you know how it is when you see a YouTube video where people have no idea how to fight and you see them fight?
02:01:09.000 You know that thing?
02:01:10.000 Of course I do.
02:01:11.000 That is so crazy.
02:01:12.000 To this day, I'm like, I've been doing martial arts my whole life.
02:01:15.000 I don't want to fight anybody, but I see people fight and they have no idea how to fight.
02:01:19.000 I imagine myself, if I was in a street fight with this guy, I would be like, why are you doing this, man?
02:01:26.000 This is so crazy.
02:01:27.000 You don't know what you're doing.
02:01:27.000 Hey!
02:01:28.000 You're crazy.
02:01:29.000 You're going to get killed.
02:01:30.000 You're lucky I'm nice.
02:01:32.000 But that's the same way with conversation.
02:01:34.000 There's a lot of people out there having conversations that have no idea how to talk.
02:01:38.000 They're not even really listening to you.
02:01:41.000 They're just like, why are you doing that?
02:01:43.000 Why are you arguing?
02:01:44.000 You're in a conversation.
02:01:45.000 You don't even know how to have one.
02:01:47.000 You're not listening.
02:01:49.000 You're just talking.
02:01:50.000 You're just using someone like a wall that you're throwing a fucking tennis ball off of.
02:01:54.000 It's bizarre.
02:01:55.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:01:56.000 Well, you had a good statement on this, and I think it was your last special where it was like, you have two idiots in a room, it's the more confident one that they listen to.
02:02:07.000 And it's that concept of just say more words and have more opinions and you don't have to think, just be loud and make a lot of noise.
02:02:16.000 It's a game.
02:02:17.000 They're trying to checkmate you.
02:02:18.000 Instead of having a communication and conversation, they're trying to socially dominate you.
02:02:24.000 Look, I used to do it, for sure.
02:02:27.000 I mean, I think it's a learned thing.
02:02:30.000 People do it to you and you go, man, I gotta fucking kick my ass in that conversation.
02:02:33.000 I'm gonna get better at kicking people's ass.
02:02:35.000 And then you get better at sort of bulldogging people or talking over them or talking loud or having these sentences that maybe you can pull out of your ass every now and then to shut people down.
02:02:47.000 It sounds good.
02:02:48.000 And it becomes a sport instead of what it really should be, which is sharing ideas and communicating with people.
02:02:54.000 I mean, if you're really into the sport of just debating people and shutting people down and insulting people, okay, good for you.
02:03:01.000 But people don't like listening to that that much.
02:03:04.000 What people like listening to, from my experience, is someone actually talking to someone, someone actually expressing their thoughts, and then the other person considering their thoughts and either agreeing or disagreeing.
02:03:17.000 But people are so happy when you can do that without real conflict.
02:03:22.000 Yeah.
02:03:23.000 I've had some people on that just five years ago, I would have just said, you fucking moron.
02:03:29.000 I would have screamed at them.
02:03:30.000 What are you talking about?
02:03:31.000 You're an idiot.
02:03:32.000 Go fuck yourself.
02:03:33.000 Jump off a bridge.
02:03:34.000 But instead of doing that, I'd be like, okay.
02:03:37.000 Why do you think that?
02:03:39.000 And tell me what about this.
02:03:41.000 And here's what I think.
02:03:43.000 Let me tell you what I think.
02:03:44.000 You tell me what you think.
02:03:45.000 But to be able to do that in a non-snarky way, like, oh yeah, you think that?
02:03:52.000 Tell me more.
02:03:54.000 That's how you get the best out of people, though.
02:03:56.000 That's how you understand who they really are.
02:03:58.000 Yeah, and it's so valuable.
02:04:00.000 So valuable.
02:04:01.000 For me, it's just for me.
02:04:03.000 I know it's valuable for people that are listening, but just for me as a human, for my own education, it's been everything.
02:04:09.000 Yeah.
02:04:10.000 Everything.
02:04:10.000 I've learned more from talking to people on this podcast, both from talking to scholars and scientists and really intelligent people and morons.
02:04:21.000 Yeah.
02:04:21.000 You know, I've learned a lot from talking to morons.
02:04:23.000 Yeah.
02:04:24.000 Just the awkwardness in the way they process thoughts and the way they view the world and the way they've chosen to communicate.
02:04:30.000 You learn from that.
02:04:32.000 Just like you're saying, sparring with someone who has terrible habits.
02:04:36.000 You go, oh, look at this guy.
02:04:37.000 What the fuck are you doing, man?
02:04:38.000 But you learn.
02:04:39.000 You can learn from people.
02:04:41.000 Well, I think that's something that really separates you from a lot of people.
02:04:47.000 Yeah, there's shows where people are very opinionated and loud and, you know, people like that and that kind of thing.
02:04:52.000 But your ability to communicate and to bring out conversation regardless of what the subject matter is makes it very intriguing.
02:05:01.000 And you can learn a lot regardless of who the guest is.
02:05:06.000 You learn so much from these people because of the way you're able to communicate with them, the way you're able to Bring out conversation and get in-depth with all of these subjects.
02:05:17.000 Well, I'm genuinely curious about most things.
02:05:22.000 And I'm genuinely curious about the way I think.
02:05:24.000 I'm like, why do I think that way?
02:05:26.000 So if someone thinks different than me, I'm genuinely curious.
02:05:29.000 Like, why do you think?
02:05:30.000 There's an instinct to go, nah, you're fucking wrong.
02:05:32.000 I'm right.
02:05:33.000 But I just go, oh, I know what that is.
02:05:35.000 That's a trick.
02:05:36.000 Don't do that.
02:05:37.000 That's dumb.
02:05:38.000 Don't think that way.
02:05:39.000 Just try to find out.
02:05:40.000 This is not a game.
02:05:41.000 It's not a contest.
02:05:42.000 Find out why this person thinks this way.
02:05:44.000 And it's better for everybody.
02:05:47.000 But it's just a lost talent.
02:05:49.000 And I didn't even know it was a thing until I started doing podcasts.
02:05:54.000 It just took me a while.
02:05:55.000 Podcasts are like anything else, for me at least.
02:05:58.000 As I'm doing it, I'm trying to get better at it, and I realize, oh, I used to not be as good.
02:06:03.000 I never listen to my podcasts, but if I did listen to the old ones from the beginning, I'd probably be like, ugh!
02:06:08.000 Fucking terrible.
02:06:10.000 Jesus Christ.
02:06:11.000 You know, plus most of them I was high out of my fucking mind.
02:06:14.000 I don't even know half what I was talking about while I was saying it.
02:06:17.000 I was ruining conversations left and right.
02:06:19.000 But these conversations for me are like, it's like going to school.
02:06:25.000 It's like every day.
02:06:25.000 I'm going to school about humans.
02:06:28.000 You know, going to school about whatever the subject they're talking to me about, but also going to school about how, you know, the more people you talk to, especially like this, no cell phones, we're wearing headphones.
02:06:38.000 And one of the reasons why I like headphones is because your voice is in my ear.
02:06:42.000 You're not over there.
02:06:43.000 You're right here, man.
02:06:44.000 We're locked in.
02:06:45.000 And this is exactly the same way that other people are going to hear it, which is a very unusual way to hear a conversation.
02:06:51.000 You don't think about it that way, but most of the time when you hear a conversation, your voice is louder because it's closer, and they're over there.
02:06:57.000 And you're talking to each other, and maybe you check your phone, or maybe you're distracted by other noises, but when you're wearing headphones, you don't hear anything else.
02:07:04.000 So you're locked in.
02:07:06.000 And when else would you and I, and we're friends, I've known you for years, when will we be able to sit down like this?
02:07:12.000 For hours!
02:07:13.000 Just across from each other, staring at each other's eyes, just talking.
02:07:16.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:07:17.000 I never thought about that with the headphones.
02:07:19.000 It's big.
02:07:20.000 Yeah, that's interesting.
02:07:20.000 It keeps you from talking over each other too much, too.
02:07:23.000 Because conversations are improvisational, right?
02:07:26.000 You have a dance partner.
02:07:27.000 You don't want to step on each other's toes.
02:07:28.000 But you do it occasionally so you get better at it.
02:07:32.000 And for more than two people, it's mandatory.
02:07:36.000 Like when you have three or four people on a podcast, you cannot do it without headphones or it's just talking over each other.
02:07:42.000 I learned that doing those fight companions.
02:07:44.000 Oh, yeah.
02:07:44.000 Because everyone's drunk.
02:07:46.000 And then they have the headphones on.
02:07:47.000 It sort of at least calms some of the overtalk.
02:07:52.000 Yeah, that makes sense.
02:07:54.000 Yeah, it's a journey, man, like everything else.
02:07:57.000 Like everything else, it's a journey.
02:07:59.000 I mean, if you're doing it right, your relationships, being a parent, being a comedian, being a fighter, being a doctor, I'm sure, if you're concentrating on it, you get better at it.
02:08:10.000 I'm sure.
02:08:11.000 Yeah.
02:08:11.000 Yeah, I think just the understanding of it's a constant balancing act, it's a constant development.
02:08:21.000 The sooner you come to terms and understand that, the better off you're going to be.
02:08:26.000 But we get locked into these...
02:08:29.000 These ways of thinking, these ways of living.
02:08:32.000 You're that way until you die, a lot of people are.
02:08:36.000 And to constantly be questioning yourself and to be searching.
02:08:40.000 I feel like I'm a seeker.
02:08:42.000 I'm seeking different ways to do things, different ways to think, different perspectives on situations, particularly ones I might be stuck on.
02:08:51.000 Like, this is the way I think, this is what I believe.
02:08:53.000 I want to explore what my beliefs and feelings and viewpoints are.
02:09:00.000 Yeah, I think that is how you gain a better understanding of what this thing is.
02:09:08.000 What this thing we're experiencing is.
02:09:09.000 Yeah, which nobody knows what the hell it is.
02:09:11.000 Nobody knows what it is.
02:09:13.000 Yeah, I just got...
02:09:14.000 I mean, there's some scientists that are...
02:09:20.000 Trying to...
02:09:21.000 They've written a book about it, but they're trying to come on the podcast to lay out all of the reasons why this is a simulation.
02:09:30.000 And I'm going over some of their work, and I'm like, this is fucking so crazy.
02:09:35.000 Because if they're right...
02:09:37.000 Like, what are we doing?
02:09:38.000 Are we playing a video game?
02:09:40.000 Maybe we are.
02:09:42.000 Maybe we are.
02:09:43.000 And then there's the thought that maybe that is what life is, period.
02:09:47.000 And that this idea of like, oh, one day we're going to create an artificial environment that we exist in that's going to be indistinguishable from the real world that we exist in now.
02:09:57.000 Maybe...
02:09:58.000 It's always that.
02:10:00.000 Maybe it's been that from the beginning and evolution is actually a part of this long game.
02:10:05.000 And that this cycling of life and life and death and all these things is just a part of this insanely long progressive game.
02:10:14.000 Yeah.
02:10:15.000 Yeah.
02:10:16.000 Blow your mind up the more you think about it.
02:10:19.000 You know, who can say that that's not the case?
02:10:23.000 Yeah.
02:10:24.000 Nobody can.
02:10:25.000 No.
02:10:26.000 You can't.
02:10:26.000 And the more you think about it, you might check out of reality to a degree.
02:10:32.000 So it's a scary thing.
02:10:34.000 I'm also genuinely curious as to other people's perspectives.
02:10:38.000 I love reading people's takes on current events, takes on people.
02:10:46.000 And takes on movies and music.
02:10:48.000 Because I disagree with so many of them.
02:10:51.000 And I go, how is this person viewing the world?
02:10:54.000 I would like to be them for a short period of time.
02:10:57.000 If I knew for a fact, I can come back and be me again.
02:11:00.000 I want to see.
02:11:01.000 What are you seeing?
02:11:02.000 Are you in pain all the time?
02:11:05.000 Why are you mad at stuff?
02:11:08.000 What is it?
02:11:09.000 Is it an emotional thing?
02:11:11.000 Or is your mind just wired different?
02:11:13.000 We're all assuming that water tastes the same to you as it does to me.
02:11:19.000 Everybody knows sunshine feels good.
02:11:22.000 But does it feel the same?
02:11:24.000 I don't know what your sunshine feels like.
02:11:27.000 Yeah.
02:11:27.000 You know, I think about that a lot.
02:11:29.000 One thought I have is like, this is white.
02:11:32.000 We both say it's white, but maybe this looks completely different to you.
02:11:36.000 Maybe this white looks like yellow, but we call it the same thing because we agree.
02:11:41.000 And that's like so much of reality is just something we all agree upon until we don't, until we change our minds.
02:11:49.000 But there's so many people that see and feel and think that Very different things.
02:11:53.000 And we look at them as crazy because the majority of us say that's not the way we see or feel things.
02:11:59.000 But all anything is is an agreeance upon what this thing is.
02:12:05.000 And is that what makes things real?
02:12:08.000 That we agree that it's real?
02:12:12.000 I don't know.
02:12:13.000 That's a trick.
02:12:13.000 I don't know either.
02:12:14.000 Well, I mean, think about other things that people have tastes for.
02:12:17.000 Like food, for example.
02:12:19.000 There's people that enjoy certain flavors, like spicy foods, for example.
02:12:24.000 And there's other people that fucking hate it.
02:12:26.000 My wife's mom, she can't have anything with any pepper or anything.
02:12:30.000 Anything even remotely hot.
02:12:32.000 She's like, oh, it's too hot.
02:12:33.000 Everything is too hot.
02:12:35.000 And I can't make things hot enough.
02:12:37.000 I'm We're good to go.
02:12:58.000 Like my good friend Alonzo Bowden, hilarious comedian, loves jazz, goes on jazz cruises, does stand-up on these cruises.
02:13:04.000 I try, man.
02:13:05.000 I try to listen to it.
02:13:06.000 I get some of it.
02:13:07.000 It's kind of cool.
02:13:08.000 But if I had to choose between jazz and other music, I'm like, get the fuck out.
02:13:12.000 If it was one music that I could just wipe off the face of the planet?
02:13:16.000 That would be it.
02:13:17.000 I don't know.
02:13:18.000 It probably would be like dumb country songs.
02:13:20.000 But outside of dumb country songs, I don't know what they're experiencing.
02:13:24.000 What is it about it that's resonating?
02:13:27.000 Why do some people go bonkers for some movies and other people think they suck?
02:13:32.000 What is it?
02:13:33.000 Yeah.
02:13:34.000 One thing that always trips me out is I think about, like, people we view as lunatics.
02:13:39.000 I'm like, what if they are seeing reality and we have blinders on, you know, because when you take into account what a finite percentage of what's really out there that we're able to see with our perception,
02:13:54.000 you know, compared to, like, x-rays and gamma rays and all of these things, like...
02:13:58.000 We have such a tiny filter on everything that's really going on out there.
02:14:03.000 We don't really see shit compared to what's really there.
02:14:07.000 And maybe these whacked out people are just seeing more of what's happening.
02:14:12.000 And that's what makes them nuts because they're like...
02:14:15.000 You're not seeing all these demons flying around and all these colors.
02:14:19.000 We have a filter on that so we can process information and it keeps us sane.
02:14:26.000 But what's really going on out there?
02:14:30.000 When you think about how small an amount of acid you need to take to completely perturb the way you view the world, I think McKenna described this.
02:14:39.000 Terence McKenna described acid.
02:14:41.000 That the potency of acid is like, it's literally like, in terms of like the amount that you need in order to have an effect, he made an analogy like an ant deconstructing the entire Empire State Building in a matter of seconds.
02:14:57.000 Like, that's how potent it is in terms of volume.
02:15:01.000 You don't need a couple drops of acid in a huge human body, and you're tripping balls for seven hours.
02:15:07.000 You know...
02:15:09.000 That's a chemical disruption of this very delicate ecosystem.
02:15:15.000 So if your neurochemistry is off in any way, up or down, sideways, screwy, you got too much of this or too much of that, which we know is the case with everything, right?
02:15:26.000 Like some people are born with bad eyesight.
02:15:28.000 Some people are born deaf.
02:15:29.000 Some people are born and they have problems processing pain.
02:15:33.000 They don't feel pain correctly.
02:15:34.000 Mm-hmm.
02:15:35.000 Some people are born, they must have an imbalance of the chemicals that are floating around inside your head.
02:15:41.000 And their view of the world is radically different than ours.
02:15:44.000 And also those chemicals can shift depending on, for your personal experience, like life, abuse.
02:15:52.000 Children that are abused, their chemicals in their head as they're developing are off.
02:15:56.000 They're different.
02:15:57.000 Their brains are different.
02:15:59.000 They process life different because of abuse.
02:16:02.000 People that have experienced extreme trauma, extreme violence when they're young, PTSD, they're processing things differently than people that have not.
02:16:10.000 Yeah, what's even crazier about that is I read a book called It Didn't Start With You, and it talks about how these things are passed on generationally, from like, trauma your grandparents had is passed on to you through your DNA, and it changes us.
02:16:26.000 Like, how much is passed on to us that we have no control over?
02:16:30.000 That alters the way we feel things, the way we see things, all of these experiences that people have that just get passed down like that without any outside influence just through that process of being born.
02:16:47.000 Do you have any children?
02:16:48.000 No.
02:16:48.000 When you have children, you see it in a really weird way.
02:16:52.000 My middle daughter, my 11-year-old, is an obsessive.
02:16:56.000 She obsesses on things and tries to get better at them, or you try to tell her, hey, time to go to bed.
02:17:01.000 She's doing backflips in her room and shit.
02:17:04.000 Stop.
02:17:04.000 Stop.
02:17:05.000 Go to bed.
02:17:06.000 You've got to go to bed.
02:17:07.000 But that's me.
02:17:08.000 And I always thought I was fucked up.
02:17:10.000 I was like...
02:17:11.000 I thought I was doing this, and I probably was, my whole life to try to show that I had value.
02:17:18.000 Because I felt like I was ignored, and I didn't know my dad, and I always felt like an outsider and a loser.
02:17:24.000 And I always felt like I would throw myself into things to show that I had value.
02:17:30.000 And I would get really good at things to show that I had value.
02:17:33.000 And this obsession was like me trying to escape the existential angst of my existence and just the constant anxiety and this feeling of inadequacy.
02:17:48.000 Trying to escape it by being obsessed with things, but also trying to prove through getting good at things that I have value.
02:17:55.000 Because the first time I ever felt like I was worth anything was when I started getting good at martial arts.
02:18:00.000 And then people started respecting me.
02:18:03.000 I have a thing that people think I'm good at.
02:18:06.000 That I'm good at this thing, that became my identity.
02:18:08.000 And I just threw myself into that.
02:18:10.000 But my daughter's grown up with none of that.
02:18:12.000 She's all loved and she's all smiley and happy and she's not depressed.
02:18:16.000 She gets a lot of hugs and she has friends, but she's a fucking psycho.
02:18:21.000 And I'm like, oh, you got that for me.
02:18:24.000 Like, you got my crazy gene, but you got it without all the fucked up parts.
02:18:28.000 Like, you're not sad.
02:18:29.000 You got it without the sad thing.
02:18:31.000 You just want to get good at stuff.
02:18:33.000 Like, a happiness to it.
02:18:34.000 And also a feminine happiness to it.
02:18:37.000 Instead of a masculine, like, I just want to smash.
02:18:40.000 That's all I wanted to do.
02:18:41.000 I just want to smash things.
02:18:42.000 Because I was angry.
02:18:43.000 She's not angry.
02:18:45.000 So it's weird to see this obsessive, like, completely obsessive behavior in terms of, like, trying to get better at things.
02:18:53.000 And she accelerates it.
02:18:54.000 She excels at so many different things that she gets good at.
02:18:57.000 She gets good at things and they become her whole life, like, all day long.
02:19:01.000 Obsessive.
02:19:02.000 Like, it's really weird.
02:19:03.000 But in a happy way.
02:19:05.000 And so it's strange genetically.
02:19:08.000 You know, and you've met my dog, Marshall.
02:19:11.000 The fucking nicest dog in the world, right?
02:19:14.000 He's so nice.
02:19:15.000 That's a genetic thing.
02:19:16.000 That dog is a golden retriever.
02:19:19.000 And when you come over to him and he starts whining and he's so happy and he wants to get pet, he runs and grabs a toy, always.
02:19:27.000 He always wants to bring you something.
02:19:29.000 I didn't teach him that.
02:19:31.000 I found him for three years.
02:19:32.000 I found him since he was a little tiny baby.
02:19:33.000 He was like six weeks old when I got him.
02:19:35.000 Never had a rough day in his life.
02:19:36.000 Every day's been fun.
02:19:37.000 But he's learned through his DNA that he's supposed to retrieve things and bring them over and that you are happier when he brings things over because that's the DNA that's in his system.
02:19:50.000 He didn't learn it.
02:19:51.000 Yeah.
02:19:52.000 This is literally inside of him from the box.
02:19:56.000 Like, right out of the box, look at the ingredients.
02:19:58.000 Oh, he likes to bring you things.
02:20:00.000 Because his ancestors brought you things.
02:20:02.000 His ancestors brought other people things, and they were rewarded for it.
02:20:06.000 And they said, oh, they give me treats, and they like me more when I bring things.
02:20:09.000 So I'm going to just keep...
02:20:11.000 You shoot a duck out of the sky, and they get that duck and bring it over, and everybody gets happy.
02:20:16.000 So it's in him.
02:20:18.000 I don't think we understand.
02:20:20.000 What DNA actually is, or whatever the fuck.
02:20:24.000 DNA's just a name, right?
02:20:25.000 The components of the lifeform that are passed when two lifeforms breed and they make another one.
02:20:31.000 I don't think we really understand it.
02:20:33.000 I think we have a rudimentary understanding of the chemistry involved, but in terms of, like, personality, and in terms of, like, the thoughts that are in our heads, like, I was reading something by Rupert Sheldrick, and he was talking about why children are afraid of monsters.
02:20:50.000 He's like, children that grow up in the city are afraid of monsters.
02:20:53.000 They're not afraid of, like, gunshots and car accidents, things that are really scary.
02:20:58.000 They're afraid of monsters.
02:21:00.000 Because our ancient ancestors were eaten by cats.
02:21:04.000 They were eaten.
02:21:06.000 And by wolves and those kind of things.
02:21:08.000 We're afraid of fangs and things in the dark.
02:21:10.000 When you can't see them coming, you can't protect yourself.
02:21:13.000 Yeah.
02:21:14.000 Crazy.
02:21:15.000 Crazy.
02:21:15.000 It's in there.
02:21:16.000 It's in the DNA. Yeah.
02:21:18.000 I mean, there's so much stuff like that that just we don't understand anything.
02:21:23.000 Have you ever met someone that has like a legit phobia, like a phidia phobia or arachnophobia, like fear of snakes or spiders?
02:21:31.000 I know that I have.
02:21:32.000 I'm trying to think of who that was, but yeah, it's like, where did that come from?
02:21:37.000 It's DNA, man.
02:21:38.000 I guarantee.
02:21:39.000 I've seen it on Fear Factor.
02:21:40.000 We had a few people that had a legit fear of snakes and spiders.
02:21:44.000 They're like, oh my God, oh my God.
02:21:45.000 You see, their whole body was shaking and they were trying, like, hey, this isn't even fucking poisonous.
02:21:50.000 These are just snakes.
02:21:52.000 But there's something about snakes, like someone they love, or someone in their ancestry, or someone survived a snake attack.
02:22:01.000 Something.
02:22:02.000 There's something.
02:22:03.000 Yeah.
02:22:04.000 Well, so much of that is realizing how little control we have over everything, like how we raise our children, or how we interact with people, and what does and doesn't affect us.
02:22:16.000 The fact that any of this works in any remote way is insanity.
02:22:21.000 It doesn't make any sense.
02:22:23.000 We think it makes sense because it's normal to us, but we really take a step back and think about it.
02:22:29.000 This is nuts.
02:22:30.000 Everything is nuts.
02:22:31.000 This life is nuts and sitting here with you is nuts.
02:22:36.000 You were talking about some of the people you've met through this and you're like, how did I get here?
02:22:41.000 What is this?
02:22:42.000 Yeah, I feel that way too.
02:22:43.000 What the fuck is going on?
02:22:45.000 What did I do to get here?
02:22:46.000 This is weird.
02:22:47.000 What did I do to get here?
02:22:48.000 I think I really believe in some strange way that this thing made me do this.
02:22:53.000 That this podcast, almost like the universe, made me do this.
02:22:58.000 It sounds so pretentious, but I'm just being honest.
02:23:01.000 I feel almost like this thing has a life of its own and a mind of its own, and it tricked me.
02:23:06.000 It tricked me, and it played on my obsessive mind.
02:23:10.000 Just keep doing it.
02:23:12.000 Keep doing it.
02:23:12.000 Maybe you get better at this.
02:23:13.000 Hey, keep doing it.
02:23:14.000 Bring on other people.
02:23:15.000 Keep doing it.
02:23:15.000 Keep doing it.
02:23:16.000 And through this, untold millions of people have been exposed.
02:23:22.000 We've had three billion downloads.
02:23:25.000 Over the course of 10 years.
02:23:27.000 So I don't know how many people that is, how many individuals, but it's a fuckload.
02:23:31.000 So all of these different people have come on and expressed all these different ideas, and so many different people are hearing them in their earbuds, whether in traffic or when they're at the gym, and all these ideas percolate.
02:23:43.000 Inside people's brains and that it gives them different perspectives and that it makes them maybe explore things.
02:23:49.000 Maybe I'm going to try jujitsu.
02:23:50.000 Maybe I'm going to try yoga.
02:23:51.000 Maybe I'm going to try eating better.
02:23:53.000 Maybe I'm going to try doing this.
02:23:55.000 And through all that, you see a shift in the culture of the human beings that have been...
02:24:03.000 That have been affected by all these people's conversations.
02:24:05.000 And for me, it feels like I'm getting sucked into being here.
02:24:09.000 I'm like, okay.
02:24:10.000 And then also me getting better at it is just me.
02:24:13.000 It's like it showing me how to extract better information, get out of my fucking way, don't ruin it, and make it better for the people that are listening.
02:24:22.000 It's really what it feels like.
02:24:24.000 Mm-hmm.
02:24:25.000 I know, it's crazy!
02:24:27.000 Even saying it sounds like hippie bullshit.
02:24:30.000 Well, and you think about why are we attracted to certain things, certain people, certain...
02:24:35.000 Sometimes we're attracted to people that doesn't make any fucking sense.
02:24:39.000 Everything you do and say and make me feel is like Everything opposite of what I really want, but I'm attracted to you.
02:24:46.000 These things bring a certain thing out of me, develop me in a certain way where nobody else could do that.
02:24:54.000 This person does that for me for some reason, or this action, this sport, this thing.
02:25:00.000 Why am I drawn to that?
02:25:02.000 I shouldn't be.
02:25:04.000 It's fucking horrible.
02:25:05.000 It hurts.
02:25:06.000 All these things that doesn't make any sense at all.
02:25:11.000 But nothing makes any sense at all.
02:25:13.000 It doesn't make any sense.
02:25:14.000 I think that's why it's so vital to follow your heart and follow the things you feel because everything else, nobody knows what the fuck is going on.
02:25:23.000 Nobody can tell you what you should do or shouldn't do to be successful or to be happy or to be all these things.
02:25:30.000 You've got to listen to what's inside of you.
02:25:33.000 Yeah.
02:25:34.000 I mean, you could be wrong.
02:25:36.000 You could listen to what's inside of you, and you could be wrong, but you have to learn how to, like, decipher that voice better.
02:25:42.000 Yeah.
02:25:43.000 Like, I've been wrong about things that I thought I wanted, and then you go, oh, okay, this is why I was wrong.
02:25:48.000 I was delusional, or I was kidding myself.
02:25:51.000 Or fixated on the wrong thing.
02:25:53.000 Yeah.
02:25:54.000 Or I was thinking that this thing was going to bring me some sort of peace.
02:25:58.000 So it was going to bring me some sort of...
02:26:00.000 some sort of...
02:26:04.000 Just normalcy, you know, and then it doesn't happen.
02:26:07.000 So you go, all right, well, I guess there is no normalcy.
02:26:10.000 Nothing is normal.
02:26:11.000 Everything's crazy.
02:26:12.000 We're all nuts.
02:26:13.000 Yeah.
02:26:13.000 Nobody knows what's going on.
02:26:15.000 All those things, that should be a t-shirt.
02:26:16.000 Yeah.
02:26:17.000 Nothing is normal.
02:26:18.000 Everything is crazy.
02:26:19.000 No one knows what's going on.
02:26:20.000 No one knows what's going on at all.
02:26:22.000 The sooner we realize that, the better we'll be.
02:26:25.000 Like, we're all in the loony bin.
02:26:27.000 Yeah.
02:26:27.000 It will definitely be easier.
02:26:30.000 That's why I'm always scared of drugs that make people confident.
02:26:35.000 My favorite drug is marijuana, because it does the opposite of making me confident.
02:26:39.000 It makes me paranoid.
02:26:40.000 It makes me compassionate, and it makes me also like, oh, and Geez, this is crazy.
02:26:46.000 That's why I like it.
02:26:47.000 I like it because I think the drugs that make you...
02:26:49.000 We should all be a little less confident.
02:26:52.000 We need each other a lot more than we like to pretend, and this life is like this temporary thing that we're going through.
02:26:59.000 We have a certain amount of heartbeats, and then who knows?
02:27:03.000 The lights go out, and hopefully we go to a better place, but...
02:27:07.000 Yeah.
02:27:07.000 Well, I think the thing it does, too, is it strips that veil away.
02:27:12.000 Like, that veil of feeling like everything's in balance and normal and, you know, life is, like, this is life.
02:27:20.000 Like, life is fucking weird, man.
02:27:22.000 Weird.
02:27:23.000 Super weird.
02:27:23.000 Super.
02:27:24.000 We distract ourselves with normalcy and habits.
02:27:28.000 But take a step back and, like, this is nuts.
02:27:31.000 This is all nuts.
02:27:32.000 And we pretend like it's normal and it's cool and everyone's, like, in agreeance that, like, we all know what's going on.
02:27:37.000 I don't know what the fuck's going on.
02:27:38.000 We're all living in a spaceship flying through the atmosphere.
02:27:41.000 Yeah.
02:27:42.000 We're all tripping balls over here.
02:27:45.000 We're just all doing it so it feels normal.
02:27:47.000 But we can find some moments of comfort and happiness in the chaos, and that's what we're all seeking.
02:27:55.000 We're all seeking these moments of comfort and happiness and camaraderie and friendship.
02:28:01.000 We're all seeking love, too.
02:28:03.000 We're all seeking good feelings.
02:28:06.000 But you gotta get through the shitty ones to even appreciate the good feelings.
02:28:10.000 It's a catch-22.
02:28:11.000 But just understand that.
02:28:13.000 You need the good and the bad.
02:28:16.000 You don't know what good is unless you have bad.
02:28:18.000 It has to be that way.
02:28:21.000 So, we're getting towards 3 o'clock here.
02:28:23.000 We're almost going to wrap this thing up.
02:28:25.000 What are you doing now in terms of your career?
02:28:29.000 You're still fighting for Bellator?
02:28:30.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:28:31.000 Bellator Kickboxing, which I'm very thankful that they have that still.
02:28:36.000 Yeah.
02:28:36.000 I'm a gigantic fan of kickboxing in Muay Thai, and it's always perplexed me why it hasn't caught hold in America more than it has.
02:28:45.000 Yeah.
02:28:46.000 Which is something we could talk about for hours.
02:28:48.000 Yeah, I'm very thankful that Paramount Network is still invested.
02:28:51.000 Yeah, huge shout-out to Scott Coker.
02:28:53.000 Scott Coker!
02:28:54.000 Most amazing promoters.
02:28:55.000 Shout-out to Scott!
02:28:56.000 They got that big fight this weekend with Julie Budd and Cyborg, which is cool.
02:29:02.000 But yeah, I'm still fighting for them.
02:29:03.000 I don't have anything on the books right now.
02:29:05.000 I'm waiting like I always have been since the beginning of time.
02:29:10.000 You know, it's something you think is going to change.
02:29:12.000 Eventually, I'm going to have all these fights lined up.
02:29:15.000 I've never known when the next one is, and certainly not when the next one is after that.
02:29:20.000 But...
02:29:21.000 Yeah, I'm hoping something will come up and, you know, as far as how long I'm going to keep doing this, I don't know, man.
02:29:27.000 I could be done today.
02:29:28.000 Maybe I'll decide I don't want to fucking do this shit anymore.
02:29:31.000 But I think I've always had a healthy understanding of that, like...
02:29:37.000 Fighting is what I do, and I will always be a fighter, but this isn't it for me.
02:29:42.000 I have so many things that I do in my life.
02:29:44.000 I'm a writer.
02:29:46.000 Like I said, I'm working on my autobiography right now.
02:29:49.000 I've written two books so far.
02:29:51.000 I'm an artist.
02:29:51.000 I paint.
02:29:52.000 I draw.
02:29:53.000 I play the piano a little bit.
02:29:55.000 I speak.
02:29:57.000 I'm a renaissance man.
02:30:00.000 Do you think you'll be more invested in art when you're done?
02:30:05.000 I don't know.
02:30:06.000 You know, I think I'll definitely have more time to do it, you know, as far as how much I'll do it as a career.
02:30:13.000 I don't know.
02:30:14.000 You know, for me, art has always been something that I do it because I love to do it.
02:30:19.000 If it starts becoming a job where it's like you need to do this or you need to do that, I think that would make me lose a lot of love for it.
02:30:29.000 Yeah, like most things.
02:30:31.000 Yeah.
02:30:32.000 But I think you can get through that without it becoming a job.
02:30:34.000 I think that's a perspective.
02:30:36.000 Because at the end of the day, it's still art.
02:30:38.000 Just because you have to do it for a job, what does that mean?
02:30:43.000 Just do it.
02:30:44.000 You know what I mean?
02:30:45.000 If you think, oh, I have to do art now, now it's a job.
02:30:48.000 It's like the expression, marrying your mistress.
02:30:51.000 Well, I think you can just do art, you know?
02:30:56.000 Just be obsessed with it like you are if it's not a job.
02:31:00.000 And then the other parts just sort of take care of itself.
02:31:03.000 Yeah.
02:31:03.000 Well, everything I do, I feel, is artistic expressions, you know, my fighting, my actual art, my writings, and those kinds of things.
02:31:13.000 But...
02:31:14.000 I don't think I'll ever be stuck on a job or one thing because I'm just too interested in too many different things.
02:31:25.000 I think I'll always be balancing many different aspects and certain times I'll be more focused on one thing like my fighting.
02:31:32.000 Obviously, that's a very finite timeline on that.
02:31:35.000 But once that's done, you know, it's going to shift.
02:31:38.000 And I think it will always be that way to one extent or another.
02:31:42.000 I will always be doing a multitude of things and exploring and developing and learning.
02:31:48.000 And yeah, like I said, I'm a seeker.
02:31:52.000 I love it.
02:31:53.000 Well, when you're done and you want to do something else, come back in here and talk to us and tell us what's up.
02:31:57.000 I would love to, man.
02:31:58.000 This has been really great.
02:31:59.000 My pleasure, brother.
02:32:00.000 Always.
02:32:01.000 I appreciate you, man.
02:32:01.000 Thank you, man.
02:32:02.000 I appreciate you.
02:32:02.000 Kevin Ross, ladies and gentlemen.
02:32:04.000 Thank you.
02:32:04.000 Goodbye.
02:32:08.000 That was great.
02:32:09.000 Thank you, man.
02:32:10.000 That was really good.