Hugo Martin, the Game Director on Doom Eternal joins us to talk about the new Doom game, Doom Eternal. We talk about our first impressions of the game, our thoughts on the new game, and what we would like to see in the future of Doom games. We also talk about some of our favorite parts of Doom and some of the cool things we have seen in the game so far. Doom Eternal is out now, and we can't wait to try it out! Don't Tell Mom: e-mail us what you thought of this episode and we'll get back to you with more episodes in the next week or so! Timestamps: 3:00 - What do you think of Doom? 4:30 - What is your favorite part of Doom 5:20 - What's your favorite aspect of Doom ? 6:15 - What would you like in a Doom game? 7:00 8:20 What's the worst thing you ve ever seen in a game 9: What do your kids like about Doom 10:00 -- How do you feel about the graphics in Doom 11:30 -- Who are you looking forward to playing Doom Eternal? 12:15 -- What are your thoughts on it? 13:20 -- How does it look like? 14:30 15:40 -- Is it going to be an R rated? 16:40 - Who's your first impressions? 17:00 Is it better than the first level? 18:10 - What are you going to play? 19:10 -- Who do you want to see me play Doom Eternal next? 21:10 22: Is it more violent? 25:00 | What do I think it's going to get better? 26:40 27: What are my favorite part? 29:30 Is there a better version of Doom 2? 31:00 // 32:40 | What would I like to play it in a movie? 35:30 | How do I want to play Doom in the most realistic version? 36:30 // 33: What's my favorite character? 39:00 Do you have a favorite character in Doom 2 ? 45: Does it have a better than my first impression of a movie or a better one? 47:00 / 36:00 + 40:00 & 45:00 My thoughts on my thoughts?
00:00:47.000I do want it to be something that my nine-year-old could play.
00:00:50.000Don't you think it's kind of crazy that you could rip people's heads off, you could shove their arm down their throat, you could cut them in half?
00:00:58.000Just don't use any of those naughty words, kids.
00:01:01.000Yes, because I was joking with something the other day.
00:01:03.000It's like, when I'm with my kids, he's not going to go up to somebody and glory kill them.
00:01:08.000Explain what a glory kill is, because it sounds too much like glory hole, and people are going to get really confused.
00:01:13.000So in the game, when you damage a demon enough, they will glow with a shader on them, and that means you can go in to do a melee finisher, basically, which is like a melee attack, and you'll get health from it, and there are these really, really cool enemies.
00:01:26.000And Melee, we should explain, is like with your own hands.
00:03:04.000Remember when we used to play games, and you used to have that opening scene, there was a video, and then it would go to the game, and the game was crude.
00:03:13.000This game is exactly like the opening scene, which is so crazy.
00:03:18.000No pre-rendered, that everything, those are the in-game assets.
00:05:57.000You know, like when they square off in the Coliseum, like, you know, he comes out and he says some badass shit and you like look at him and you're like, what the?
00:07:49.000Now, as far as multiplayer, because I'm not really into playing games, the game game, I'm into multiplayer.
00:07:55.000So you, I promise, if you play the single player, what is unique about our single player is that it will give you the same buzz that a multiplayer will give you because your opponents this time are the AI. And that opening level, that's white belts.
00:08:58.000I was just Doom 2016's multiplayer experience, but it really wasn't innovative enough.
00:09:03.000Like, fans wanted to see us, like, do something new.
00:09:05.000So we basically took the single player experience, that combat loop that you'll master, and then we give you a way to do it with your friends.
00:09:12.000It's a 2v1, so it'd be, you know, two of you guys versus one guy gets to be the slayer with all the guns.
00:09:19.000You'll play the single-player campaign, and then someone can become a demon, like Jamie could become a demon, and then invade you while you're playing, and you won't know where he is, and he'll just come out and try to fuck with you.
00:10:44.000If you want to make something that's really going to engage people...
00:10:48.000The whole point is to give them something to master that they've never seen before.
00:10:53.000Because if you're just asking me to master a new version of a thing that I already mastered, sure, a lot of people would appreciate that, but you're not really going to capture a large audience.
00:11:01.000So we really created something that was completely unique.
00:12:06.000You're seeing through the slayer right now, and those two demons that he's shooting with the numbers coming out of them, those are the other guys.
00:12:11.000Now, I don't think most people understand the incredible amount of work that's involved in creating one of these things.
00:13:41.000Although Sam Harris did know a guy who's a skier who is 50, who is apparently very healthy and very fit, and he is now on a ventilator, and he was in Italy.
00:13:52.000You know, sometimes, look, I've got the flu before and I'm sure you have as well, and sometimes what happens is you're worn down from travel, you're worn down maybe from drinking, you're worn down from too much exercise, and then it gets you.
00:14:05.000And then if you're not, like, and this is just the common cold.
00:14:09.000And apparently, the common cold is a type of coronavirus.
00:14:29.000Well, Michael Osterholm, who wrote this book, Deadliest Enemy, and who was on Tuesday, on the podcast Tuesday, he opened up a lot of people's eyes as to what the issue is and what you can do to prevent it.
00:14:47.000Those wet markets that they have in China are just bananas, man, with the fucking bats on the tables.
00:14:54.000And coronavirus are large family viruses that cause illnesses ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as MERS or SARS. A novel coronavirus is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans.
00:15:09.000So, zoonotic, or zoonotic, meaning they're transmitted between animals and people.
00:15:15.000So, what's happening is these fucking wet markets, he was detailing how they have chickens that are in one cage, and civets that are above the chickens, and the civets are shitting on the chickens, and the chickens are eating the civet shit.
00:15:35.000Yeah, and he's like, and many of them have jumped to humans.
00:15:38.000I mean, all the major, whether it's avian flu, that's from birds, swine flu, obviously from pigs, they jump from farm animals or from these wet markets to people.
00:15:49.000Yeah, and they're not going to stop those wet markets.
00:15:51.000So it's like, I mean, that's how people buy their food, which is just crazy.
00:15:54.000Have you ever seen the videos and pictures of what they look like over there?
00:16:12.000We were looking at pictures of them yesterday, and they have a table laid out, and then even just on the raw concrete, bats laid out with their mouth open.
00:18:54.000And I think a lot of people are going to do that.
00:18:57.000You know, it's gonna be interesting to see how the government handles it.
00:19:00.000Because one of the things about love or hate Trump, he's willing to do some shit that a lot of people would think would be unpopular, like close down traffic, close down flights coming in from other countries that are infected, that have high rates of infection.
00:19:13.000You know, I mean, I wonder what they're gonna do.
00:19:15.000And I think something really radical has to be done to try to start to slow down this fucking illness.
00:19:23.000But I don't know what they can do, honestly.
00:20:12.000And then they quarantined and he got over it.
00:20:14.000He was getting over it and getting better.
00:20:15.000And then they quarantined him with a bunch of people that also had it.
00:20:18.000And then he got it even worse, which is interesting because I was like, I wonder how he got it again.
00:20:22.000And I guess probably his immunity wasn't fully developed yet.
00:20:25.000And then it just overwhelmed his immune system because he's basically quarantined with a bunch of other people that were really, really sick.
00:20:32.000But he got through it and he was talking about it and all these poor people that are stuck on boats.
00:21:33.000It's like being stuck on an apartment building filled with drunks, but you're all on the roof, and if you jump off the side, you're definitely dead.
00:22:50.000I went to a nutritionist and she just kind of coached me on, like, basic stuff and it was remarkable how much weight I lost just by not being, you know, stupid.
00:23:13.000I would crunch on the game and, like, be at the office late, come home, and my wife would make something amazing, but I miss dinner, and it's like, I want to fucking eat.
00:25:00.000In my first week there, I went to the Texas fair, and I had fried pumpkin pie with a scoop of ice cream and hot chocolate, and it was like the best fucking thing I've ever had in my life, but it's so bad for you.
00:26:29.000Like, literally no one I knew had a PC. Like, one dude in a dorm had PC, and you'd go there and he'd turn on Doom, and you're like, holy shit, this is crazy.
00:26:37.000But like, I mean, I was like an Apple guy, hardcore, so I just missed it, you know, like that boat.
00:28:18.000And even when I come home, I see my kids, I do my thing, and then I just do research.
00:28:24.000It sounds ridiculous, not unlike my diet, but my research is that of a 13-year-old.
00:28:30.000I play fucking video games and read comic books and just engross myself in pop culture because essentially what we do is make pop culture content that's pop culture content.
00:28:52.000I couldn't really fit in going to do any kind of training or anything in the afternoons because it was just family and stuff, so I try to do that in the mornings, and then I come home and put the kids to school, and then I have, like, about two hours where the house is empty, and I'll just play games, you know.
00:32:18.000Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I don't.
00:32:21.000The most I ever do is if I'm training really hard.
00:32:25.000If I'm doing something really crazy, then I'll drink something with electrolytes while I'm working out, like a Gatorade or a Powerade or something like that, just to try to replenish my glucose levels.
00:32:36.000Is that good to drink Gatorade while you're doing exercise?
00:32:51.000They're always drinking the logos on the cup, but I'm like, is that some kind of special powder?
00:32:55.000The issue with things like Gatorade or Powerade or any of those sports drinks, air quotes, is if you're not doing sports, you shouldn't be drinking them.
00:33:03.000It's like if you're just laying around drinking Gatorade, there's a fuckload of sugar in that shit.
00:33:07.000But if you're running hills or if you're rucking with like a 50-pound backpack on and you're goddamn exhausted, well, if you drink one of those things, it'll give you some energy and it'll replenish some electrolytes and give your body some glucose.
00:35:14.000Ideally, you should find a coach and have someone correct all your form so that you have it down, and then you can do it on your own.
00:35:20.000But the beautiful thing about that is, like...
00:35:22.000You could have a kettlebell and you sit in your office and just for five minutes, just do Turkish get-ups for five minutes and do it a couple times a day and it'll change your body.
00:35:31.000It'll change your core strength and your shoulder strength and your shoulder stability because you got this thing overhead at the end of it and then you're dropping it back down and you're, you know, resting your body back down and starting all over again.
00:37:55.000It's like it cleans up everything like I can't eat shitty food cuz I'm gonna feel like shit on that so like yeah It had this ripple effect in my life that was fucking amazing.
00:38:06.000Yeah, and and and a really healthy pursuit, but the back thing is that guaranteed that like Well, there's things you can do to mitigate it, and I'll show you some of the things we have here.
00:40:15.000I always tell people that if you have a tie, you should have like a Velcro thing in the back.
00:40:18.000Just take a nice tie, put it on, tighten it up, and then snip the back, and then sew in some Velcro so it seals up like this, so that if someone yanks on your neck, it just pulls that tie off.
00:41:26.000A lot of them, what they do is they take gis or towels and they throw it over a chin-up bar and they do chin-ups by just holding onto the towel or holding onto the gi.
00:41:34.000There's a wiry, like, every muscle is, like, taut with those guys, you know?
00:43:38.000It's one of the things that I talked with Carmack about.
00:43:40.000I was like, I see, because Carmack has done some martial arts himself, and I was like, I see, he's actually very good at judo and jiu-jitsu, and he's really talented.
00:43:48.000Apparently, he choked somebody out at the office once.
00:43:50.000I think the person asked for it, but there's some story of, like, they wanted to see if John could do it, and he was like, okay.
00:43:56.000And just like, like a robot, okay, I'll choke you out now.
00:44:38.000The founders of id, John Romero, that guy, like, I mean, I really feel like we're standing on the shoulders of geniuses when we make this game.
00:44:47.000Like, a lot of what makes Doom Eternal good is what they did in their game.
00:44:52.000Like, the rocket launcher is such a well-balanced weapon in the original Doom game, and we took a lot of inspiration from that.
00:44:58.000And the fucking characters are so well-designed, the pinky and the cacademan and the sounds they make.
00:45:02.000The game still holds up to Yeah, it does.
00:46:00.000I have to reach mastery in a game to find the fun.
00:46:06.000Part of the research that you have to do when you're designing a game and when you play other games so that we understand how other games are working successfully or not Is to play them long enough to achieve mastery so you really you feel that addiction you feel that engagement level and you're like okay I know how they did this I know I know what I'm feeling right now.
00:46:25.000Do you bring in you take like professional gamers and bring them in for consultation and say how do you how do you feel about this?
00:46:32.000Absolutely we watch and certainly we talk to them but it's it's dangerous because if you so so absolutely but It's kind of like, would you want Michael Jordan designing the next sports game?
00:46:44.000Like, it's kind of like he can tell you...
00:46:46.000It's sort of like the guy who builds the race car might not be the best guy to drive it.
00:48:37.000Which can get a little out of hand, I guess, sometimes.
00:48:41.000But in terms of balance and doing other things and get up and exercise or do something.
00:48:47.000But, yeah, me and Marty, we talk quite a bit, and it's commercial art.
00:48:52.000You know, it's business and art and creativity coming together, and we have a schedule, and we have to work out the budgets and stuff like that.
00:49:00.000But ultimately, we begin with, like, a conversation about, like, what it is we want to do.
00:49:04.000We're talking all the time, he and I, about stuff.
00:49:07.000And then we talk to other, you know, people on the team.
00:49:09.000But essentially, it begins with the executive producer and the director of the project getting together and talking.
00:49:14.000Then we work very closely with our publisher and...
00:49:17.000And you start to formulate a plan, and we had a plan and a good one for Doom Eternal.
00:49:22.000And it's cool because we just recently had a meeting with our publisher where we were able to bring up some of the things that we talked about three years ago, and they are working now, which is a good sign.
00:49:33.000Like, you are pivoting a lot during development, for sure.
00:53:09.000Is there any pushback against these kind of games?
00:53:12.000Like, when you guys produce a game like this, or create a game like this, is there any where people are like, this is too violent, this is awful, this is...
00:53:20.000Not really, because it's not against humans.
00:53:57.000In that one in particular, that Glory Kill 2, we were like, there's one pose in the animation where you hold out his arm and he's like, because that's what a guy always do.
00:54:05.000What I'm holding out hope for is some sort of Oculus version of Doom or Quake or something like that where you have like a unidirectional treadmill and you're locked into it.
00:57:14.000In Disneyland, downtown Disneyland, before you get to the park, you could go and do the Void ride, which is actually better than any of the rides in downtown Disneyland itself.
00:57:23.000Is that the one with the Avatar flying the Necron, or whatever the hell those things are called, in Avatar World, when you're flying on the thing?
00:57:30.000That is in Disney World, not Disneyland.
00:58:05.000That's my hope for the future, is that games are like that, and you're actually going to be able to exercise doing that.
00:58:11.000Because I think that if you had a game where you're in a warehouse and you're actually running for your life, and demons are chasing you and you're shooting down things, your heart rate would be jacked.
00:58:23.000You could do that for an hour and get a sick workout in and have an amazing good time.
00:59:07.000They have a new ride that got announced today for, I guess, out here at Disneyland, the new Marvel Avengers Campus is going to be opening up in the summer.
00:59:17.000They have a Spider-Man ride where it sounds like you put on a 3D headset, I think just goggles, Somehow, they're tracking your hands.
00:59:27.000During the ride, you shoot things for points.
00:59:46.000The level of sophistication going on with the games, whether your mouse and keyboard or controller, though, it would be hard to achieve in VR. I think VR offers, like, a very specific, unique, and fucking amazing experience.
01:00:53.000But what I'm saying is, like, if someone made a Doom warehouse where you guys take a 14,000 square foot warehouse, just outfit it specifically for Doom, you got a line around the block of psychopaths.
01:01:05.000Waiting to play that thing for one hour.
01:02:17.000He's the guy who started it all, really.
01:02:20.000If you enjoy 3D games, that's the guy.
01:02:24.000That's why working at id Software, and he totally is the guy, and along with the rest of them too, like Romero and those guys, like that group, fuck, that's like...
01:02:42.000It took way too long, and there was a lot of bugs in it and all that good stuff, but dude, I played it when it came out.
01:02:48.000I was like, this game is fucking badass.
01:02:51.000And, yeah, I mean, that guy is, all of them, they're like the Beatles, you know?
01:02:57.000It was like, Daikatana was like the physics of Quake 1, but with the graphics of that era.
01:03:05.000See if you can find a video of Daikatana in-game.
01:03:09.000It was a fun game, and I was like, this might catch on, but people were down on it before it ever came out.
01:03:15.000There was so much shit talk about it because it took so long and cost so much money, and they had these giant offices in Dallas with this huge penthouse.
01:04:06.000Honestly, making games is definitely a team sport, and you've got to have everybody working together really well if you want to pull it off.
01:04:13.000You also have to have, like, Division I pro athletes.
01:07:04.000And literally the notes are like, I need the intestine to kind of flap a little when you get the thing off.
01:07:11.000How do you know if you've crossed the line?
01:07:13.000Has there ever been a time when you had a scene and people dial that back?
01:07:17.000We actually, tonally, you know, you say, how do you start the project?
01:07:21.000It's kind of like there's a fair amount of brainstorming, and the strength of any creative team is, at least for a game, is how you brainstorm with each other.
01:07:29.000The synergy in that room has to be good.
01:07:33.000You've got to be willing to support other people's ideas as much as your own.
01:07:36.000We have a fucking amazing group in that regard.
01:07:38.000But tonally, we try to establish that, that like, look guys, we're not making Saw, we're not making Hostile, it's not malicious, it's not meant to make you cringe.
01:07:47.000And we actually cut together a little video of like what we thought violence-wise was inappropriate and tonally felt off.
01:08:42.000Tonally, we could twist that where every one of those is mean-spirited and really off-putting, for sure.
01:08:49.000Okay, I don't want you to sell me some PR stuff to sort of defend your game against people that are anti-violence, because that's what it sounds like.
01:08:57.000What you're doing is super bloody and disgusting and violent.
01:09:01.000To say that somehow or another that is less off-putting than less gory is pretty...
01:09:42.000He doesn't look like he's having a good time.
01:09:44.000Like, versus on Evil Dead 2 when you lop off the head of that one grandma creature that comes up out of the basement and like fucking buckets of blood start coming out of her head.
01:11:52.000So when you do something like this and you release this game, obviously there'll be patches and some upgrades and some different things that you do, but how long do you work on this game before you guys move on to the next thing?
01:12:46.000So you'll have this game and then you'll have a bunch of other ones that are based off the same engine, same characters, different journeys, different things that'll come up?
01:12:56.000Well, all centered around the Doom guy.
01:13:05.000You know, certainly we're always kind of dual tracking things and talking and, you know, always, you know, because you never know when the cool idea is going to come along and you're kind of jotting down notes.
01:13:16.000I always have kind of my notepad out just thinking about stuff.
01:13:18.000I mean, you never know when it's going to be something cool, you know, you're playing something or you see something or watch something.
01:13:25.000And then we keep those conversations going on the side and see how it goes.
01:13:28.000So is there any, do you guys like keep your eye open for like where VR is headed and things like that and go, well not yet, we're not ready for that yet, but one day down the road we'll have something like that?
01:13:41.000Kind of a different, again, like, we're like, it's sort of like with cars.
01:13:47.000I went to school for automotive design.
01:14:39.000Um, I forgot your original question, but, oh yeah, no, it's like, uh, you know, so I use a lot of car analogies at the office, uh, quite a bit.
01:14:47.000And, and, um, It's kind of like we make a race car, and if VR is something else, that's like an SUV, that's like just another kind of car.
01:14:55.000So we kind of perfected how to make race cars, and it's been doing it since the 90s.
01:15:00.000So Doom Eternal is just another race car.
01:15:12.000I'm wondering, you know, like where video games are headed I'm wondering if you if you think that's where they're headed or if you think there's always gonna be a place for them on an actual video game I think an actual computer rather I think they'll always be a place for them in the actual video game.
01:15:25.000I think the the that's where my focus is other people like Carmack Looking to see where well not anymore, but where video games we're gonna go next But I am fully focused on where they are now and how to make what they are now better Well listen man,
01:15:46.000Thank you really fun And I'm sure people are gonna waste massive chunks of their life and get a tremendous amount of entertainment out of it.