In this episode, I sit down with the first man to ever make his own leather jacket. He's also the first person to ever build his own car, and the first to ever drive a vintage car. We talk about how he got into leather craftsmanship, and what it's like to be a carpenter, and how to balance it all with being a father, husband, and business owner. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did making it, and that you enjoy listening to it! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts. I'll be looking over the best ones in the next few weeks, and will try to make them as high quality as possible. Thanks for listening, and Good Luck Out There! -Eugene and Jonathan Check out Jonathan's website here. Thanks to Jonathan for coming on the pod, and for being on the podcast. We appreciate you, Jon! XOXO, EJ & Joe Thanks also for being out there, Joe & EJ Don't Tell Mom: e. -Joe & E.J. & Elyssa - E.S. E-mail us what you think of the podcast and we'll get back to you next week with a new episode next week! Thanks again for listening! Love ya! -Evan & Jonathan -Jon Thank you, E.A. -Joe - EJ.& EJ -E.M. (and E.B. ( ) -J. (A.J) ( ) - & E-E. (J) -J (J.) (E.J., E. (S. (P. & J) -A. (M.J.) -J) & J. (C. (R) (J). (A) -AJ (A.) -P. (B) - A. (T. (D) -M. (L) - J) - P. (F) - S. (V) - K. (K. (H) - M. (Q) -S. & B. (Y. (N) (C) -R. (I. (Z) -B) ( ) (P) (A).
00:00:00.000Jonathan, you're the first man, not only the first man I've ever met who made his own leather jacket, but absolutely the first man who made his own leather jacket who's ever been on the podcast wearing that jacket.
00:01:03.000So I've been also in my travels in the last 10 years or so, or maybe five, I've really been focusing on Always have been focusing on like getting immersed in that local culture.
00:01:16.000But now I've stepped that up a notch and I'm doing like these deep dive travels into different art forms of different cultures.
00:01:23.000So leather craft, I've been visiting tanneries and studying for masters in the U.S. and in Morocco and Mexico.
00:01:31.000I just got back last week from Mexico doing it.
00:01:36.000And it's zen because for me now at this point, the scale of the shop is such that I'm actually doing a disservice if I'm out there actually building your car, right?
00:01:59.000Just literally putting on your podcast, going in my spare bedroom at home, because my son's off at college, so the second his ass was out of there, it was like, leather studio?
00:02:09.000And I totally built that sucker out with really good audio and lighting and stuff.
00:02:13.000So being able to come from sketch to a finished good within a matter of weeks, 100% myself, independent of everything, I needed that.
00:02:22.000I really kind of felt I was losing that tactile craft connection at work.
00:02:47.000I love the fact that you make these fucking...
00:02:50.000I love the fact that you do those derelicts where you leave the patina on the cars, where you take these beautiful old cars that have, like, they're gorgeous because of the life that they've lived.
00:06:24.000In that I want to honor the original design language of the era in which a vehicle was built.
00:06:29.000Now I may want to elevate that and geek out on it and do unnecessarily cool shit that the production, you know, car company wouldn't have done.
00:06:36.000But I'm trying to be super careful not to do something that like in 10 years is like, you know, some fuchsia graphics, 80s hot rod all smoothied out that just represents a brief moment in time.
00:07:58.000I mean, you know, it's got coilovers and a couple things here and there, but, you know, at the end of the day, it is what it is, and it wasn't built to do that.
00:08:09.000He did as many mods as could be done within those confines.
00:08:13.000They do drive those fucking things on dirt roads.
00:08:15.000It's really weird, those rallies, when you watch them online.
00:08:18.000It's like, Jesus Christ, first of all, who are these assholes standing next to the road while these people are going sideways around corners?
00:11:58.000It basically looks like if a 48 humpback Ford and a power wagon had a love child, it would be a Volvo S-H-U-G-G-A. I need to see this thing.
00:12:43.000Usually they were command cars, commanding officer cars.
00:12:47.000So the back area on the interior was generally kitted out, quarter sawn, dovetailed, fumed, white oak, with like a teletype machine and all their early correspondence gear.
00:13:17.000No, there was one that made the rounds, I think it was last year I saw it at SEMA, that did more of a sort of conventional, contemporary hot rod, street rod build, but they kind of, not the way you and I are thinking.
00:14:18.000I'll tell you what, at the end of the day, what's actually getting used and enjoyed and creating more memories?
00:14:23.000One of my vehicles that are hacked and ruined, as people like to say occasionally, or something sitting in some static collection gathering dust?
00:14:30.000Do they say that about the derelicts when you redo the interiors?
00:15:35.000Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to do one because if you look back on the design history, they were...
00:15:41.000The design team and executives at GM designed that car basically in reaction to trends in European touring cars and sports cars.
00:15:49.000So there's a lot of Ferrari, direct Ferrari inspiration like 275s and stuff.
00:15:55.000So I always thought it'd be interesting to do...
00:15:59.000The elevated, more European perspective version of that Gen Camaro, like devoid of badges, not like all smoothied out like everyone does, but just like elevate the trim, like that kick-ass egg crate grill and all those details, but like do it more the way a small coach builder would have done it than production.
00:16:29.000They took an older Ferrari and puts a much more modern Ferrari engine in it and completely redoes everything, but makes it so that...
00:16:39.000Was it the Norwood P4 or was it GTO Engineering in LA and the UK? They do a lot of GTO builds, but they stay pretty true to the original form.
00:16:50.000But Phil Norwood, who used to actually race for Ferrari...
00:16:56.000I don't think he's doing them anymore, but he for a while in Texas, I believe, was doing what they called the P4 Norwood, and those are so badass.
00:17:04.000So like Monaco, Superleggera, lightweight, and they were using modern, I think at the time they were, what are they taking, like Rectasterosas or something, some modern Ferrari powertrain.
00:17:16.000But keeping the original race aesthetic?
00:17:19.000I'm not sure what companies doing it, but what they were doing essentially was making everything that you could remove and put it back to the original stock form, including the engine, including the suspension, including the transmission, including the brakes.
00:17:33.000But everything was aftermarket, so they weren't cutting anything.
00:17:36.000They were sort of replacing stuff, but making this way better, way more high-performance version.
00:17:43.000It might be GTO. And also, man, if you look at one of their recreation cars that are scratch built, and, you know, the value of the original GTOs is so nuts that now, like, a guy goes, oh, well, yeah, I'll leave that in the collection, and they'll call GTO and say, build me one that looks just like my car,
00:18:26.000So right now, unfortunately, you know, there's that new law that Tom and myself and a lot of other builders in our space have been very active in trying to get passed that was for Ultra Low Volume Vehicular Manufacturers Act.
00:18:38.000So if we made under 350 units a year, we'd be exempt from crash and many expensive regulatory limitations, but we had to be responsible for emissions.
00:20:23.000A wider acceptance as time passes to oddities.
00:20:28.000But, I mean, look at that 49 electric Mercury I did.
00:20:32.000We purposely, like, dressed the quote-unquote engine bay to look like an old speed-equipped V8, you know, vintage, thin, kind of Fenton header look, you know, cast.
00:20:44.000To try and keep those old dudes engaged and not to look out and go, oh no, there's a room.
00:21:07.000Well, it's a long story, but we were honored that Goodyear invited us to have it be the feature vehicle on their large booth at the Geneva International Auto Show.
00:21:43.000And so he said, yeah, go ahead, borrow it for a week or two.
00:21:46.000Fortunately, the client is, like, one of the best humans we've ever worked with, and he's totally cool about it, but, you know, we're all nervous.
00:21:57.000Now that is one of the things that I love that you do that I don't think anybody else is going to do.
00:22:01.000I don't think anybody else would take that level of engineering and to rebuild something to that spectacular level of detail, but yet keep the fucked up paint.
00:22:14.000If you saw that rolling down the street, you wouldn't have zero idea what that is.
00:22:19.000Especially when that thing, because it has no transmission, so it's dual electric motors, just under 500 foot-pounds of torque, no shifts, so it moves like a freight train.
00:22:36.000We put the 80 array in that with American racing motors and dual Reinhardt controllers and thermal management network that we engineered a whole bunch of stuff.
00:22:44.000And when this guy charges us in, how many miles can he get?
00:22:56.000I can't afford to do fancy misleading federal testing, so I literally just make sure my flatbed is at hand and just drive the piss out of it until it can't go, and then I go, okay, there you go, there's the rain.
00:23:06.000Well, but the EPA or whoever is doing the tests on the Taycan, apparently they sold it way short.
00:23:12.000And all these automotive journalists that have driven the car are saying, no, we've gotten, you know, 270, 280. They've gotten quite a bit more than, I think, whoever, the government rated it 201. Yeah, so it's quite a bit more than that.
00:23:28.000But yeah, that whole derelict program, you know, was, like many things in my life, started just from a stupid, passionate idea.
00:23:37.000Never considered a business model of doing it.
00:23:40.000It was just, okay, I've got two young kids.
00:23:47.000I'm tired of over-restoring shit because that's like my OCD. Everything would be perfect, perfect.
00:23:53.000And then the first time, you know, the kids nail it with a skateboard or I ding it with a surfboard or the dog takes a piss in it, whatever.
00:24:00.000Like, I don't want to be that guy anymore.
00:24:38.000This still is, you know, it fits within how we define the Icon brand holistically about revisiting classic transportation design in a modern context.
00:24:48.000It's just a different way of doing it.
00:25:04.000But it speaks to how weird it is that you're doing that in the first place.
00:25:08.000Because most people who are high-dollar restoration, air quote, resto mods or whatever you want to call them, Everyone wants them to be beautiful and pristine with handles that disappear.
00:25:21.000I mean, everybody wants to shave everything down.
00:25:25.000And they end up removing a lot of the original character of the design that they're supposed to be celebrating in the first place.
00:25:33.000So that, compounded by Patina, which tells a more personal story of like, where's this car been?
00:27:00.000But, you know, going all the way back to the beginning of Icon, even further back to the beginning of the first brand TLC, they all started with personal cars.
00:27:08.000Like the icon idea was just another dumb idea that was rattling in my head.
00:27:13.000It was literally keeping me up at night and it got to the point that I need, and this happens to me often, like when I did my watch and then all the different products that I've designed, generally it'll start with something that gets to the point that I'll lose my remaining sanity if I don't actually create it.
00:27:34.000I had like a full-on 3D detailed model in my head and like my version of jumping over sheeps at night in bed was like sitting there and zooming in on an element and changing that radius and scaling this and trying that.
00:27:48.000And it literally got to the point, I told my wife, I'm like, I got to build it.
00:27:53.000Well, your company, it's sort of symbiotic with social media, in a sense, particularly YouTube, because so many people on YouTube are interested in unique builds and interesting companies that are doing cool things like Revology.
00:28:08.000But your company in particular, it's so perfect because you do all those videos and you drive around the cars with this incredible detail.
00:28:17.000And that's one of the first things that got me very attracted to your company was the fact like, I go, look at this motherfucker.
00:30:04.000I see what you're saying, but I get it from their perspective.
00:30:07.000No, but from a consumer perspective, I understand the appeal of not having to wait and not having to pay as much.
00:30:13.000But at best in this industry, you get what you pay for, and frankly, even that is a rare equation.
00:30:19.000What I'm more pissy about is companies that go, oh, now we can charge more for it and let's just deliver something that looks as close to that and copy as much of its trade dress and style and kick it out at a fat margin at what's deemed to be the most acceptable price point.
00:30:38.000But with your wait list, why do you even fuck with that?
00:30:42.000Why do you pay attention to those people?
00:30:43.000Maybe I'm insecure and childish, or maybe I'm worried that, you know, past the point, it's going to erode our business one way or another.
00:33:07.000You know, like, I'm a fan of those cars.
00:33:10.000I'm a fan of the original one, and I'm a fan of, you know...
00:33:13.000We're doing another one, too, that's, you know, again, sort of looking at how we've done what we do and, like, how else could we do it or how further could we evolve it?
00:33:24.000Which, as you've seen and working with me, like, I'm doing that all the time in all the little things.
00:33:28.000But, like, holistically, conceptually, how do you do it?
00:34:20.000And we're rebodying it with its grandfather's body.
00:34:23.000So now, like ABS, Hill Hold, many of the perversions of modernity, everything is integrated.
00:34:30.000And literally, the client could go to a Chevy dealer, although they'd probably cringe, and say, no, no, no, no, it's not a 70. You know, look, here's the ID tag.
00:34:50.000So the gauges, we're working with classic instruments to design an IP, an instrument panel that has the original design aesthetic, but then integrates the little 3x3 digital screen for all of the, you know, all your prompts and digital interface.
00:36:21.000So the only way that it's come to fruition for me is like with your FCJ80 by maintaining the original ABS system, or such is the case with the C20, by keeping the entire modern vehicle active and just rebodying it.
00:36:38.000But I mean, I'm dying for the aftermarket to come up with a standalone ABS module that's tunable.
00:38:31.000Yeah, and it had the same mechanical engineering integrated in it, but it was a much different style, more of what I call my old school style, where all my mods, like even the badging on it where it says icon, was CNC'd and stainless in the original typeface that Blazer was written in.
00:39:33.000Everything is like you feel everything.
00:39:35.000It's like there's a thing about modern cars like I really do love my Tesla It's it the way I describe it it makes other cars seem stupid like they're stupid like this is how cars should drive like you hit the gas It's almost telepathic.
00:39:51.000It's in the gigantic navigation screen everything about is amazing and I was supposed to be in Detroit right now for the Bronco launch, which they delayed because of Corona.
00:40:01.000But the difference between that and, say, the Bronco is you don't feel it.
00:40:06.000Like, the Bronco, it's a manual transmission, and you literally feel every gear.
00:40:12.000There's all these moving parts that you kind of sync up with.
00:40:15.000So there's all this sensation that's going into your brain through your hands.
00:40:20.000It's the reconnection of man and machine.
00:40:22.000And I think there's a place for both, right?
00:40:25.000But I think more and more as the world turns to autonomous vehicles, ride share, infrastructure, community development is even starting to go a different direction.
00:40:35.000I used to be concerned about that in regards to the future of our company.
00:40:38.000But now I realize, like, that's great.
00:40:40.000Like, because the more that happens, the more there's going to be plenty of people who for the weekend, for the whatever, like, demand a manual tranny and a visceral man-machine relationship.
00:41:14.000It's like there's something about that car.
00:41:17.000Like when you're driving it, it makes you smile.
00:41:19.000Like there's something about the way it steers, the way you feel the hydraulic steering, not electric.
00:41:25.000Yeah, like the new M3 is almost becoming, there's like too many nannies.
00:41:30.000It's too technical in a manner that makes the stats improve, but not the connection to the driver feel more dynamic to me.
00:41:39.000It's like I've got a 96 993 twin turbo, and that to me is one of the most perfectly engineered vehicles that was designed by a core group of people who had a singular focus on what its purpose was and what it should do,
00:41:56.000what it should evoke, and what it shouldn't.
00:41:58.000Do you have the same one that you had before?
00:43:21.000When I first came out to California in the 80s, I remember, and I think it was Newport or Manhattan Beach, there was like ex-BMW dealership looking space, but it was an independent BMW dealership and service center.
00:43:35.000And they had one in the factory tricolor livery, and they had it for sale.
00:43:39.000And I remember begging my mom to pull over in our crappy Dodge Area's rental car and going in and asking.
00:44:09.000One of my photographers does a trick and now I've been using it.
00:44:13.000So you'll get that mirrored effect if you take an iPhone that's off and put it right under the lens and hold it up and angle it just right.
00:45:16.000He's so funny, too, because, like, as you know, I'm a big watch geek, and he's, like, the antichrist in the watch culture because he's all about quartz, like vintage quartz.
00:45:26.000So, like, for a short time, Patek made quartz watches.
00:45:30.000And everyone shuns them, but now they're immensely collectible.
00:45:51.000This is Ressence or Ressence is the brand.
00:45:53.000These are super trippy, but they just came out with a smart watch where when you're on the plane and you're in a new time zone and you land, it'll reset itself.
00:47:25.000There's this new company on Bum, because when I went to the Geneva show, I was going to go meet with him, but David Rutan watches that are doing watches that are CNC'd out of a solid chunk of meteorite.
00:47:37.000And not like some bullshit EDM meteorite dial on your 90s Daytona.
00:47:42.000The entire watch case, the crown, and everything is meteorite.
00:47:45.000Jesus Christ, how many meteorites are there?
00:47:48.000There's actually a shit ton of meteorites.
00:47:51.000Yeah, there's different grades of them and stuff, and it depends on the metallurgic content, if they can be machined, and they eat machine tooling left and right.
00:48:29.000Well, my trip got canceled because the Geneva show got canceled.
00:48:32.000But anyway, the point of the story is guys like this and Ressence and Laurent Freire and all these different – Moser is another great brand.
00:48:42.000If they have a very unique aesthetic and philosophy – They're killing it.
00:48:50.000But it's the traditional big luxury, bling, bling, yo, look at me.
00:48:55.000Those guys are just dying on the vine because I think more and more people aren't buying into what is considered luxury in a conventional sense.
00:51:14.000Let's do a revisionist history approach to car design.
00:51:18.000So, what if electric cars had remained predominant in the late 1800s, early 1900s?
00:51:25.000What if we had taken inspiration from aircraft design a couple decades prior to when the industry actually did?
00:51:34.000And then what if after he did the experimental plane, the H2 I think it was, what if Howard Hughes had sat down and like he couldn't get that last starlet to go out with him right before he lost his mind completely?
00:51:50.000What if he, Buckminster Fuller and Gordon Bureig, sat down and did a napkin sketch after too many martinis?
00:51:58.000So that was my stupid pile of questions around which I framed my design.
00:52:03.000And I designed it to work on the, at the time, a P85 platform.
00:52:10.000And, basically, I received a copy of a letter that's titled, like, Peanut Butter and Chocolate, that was written by Elon's core engineering team, begging him to allow them to support me to do the build.
00:52:24.000And, like, since day one, my launch was, I don't need your money!
00:52:31.000I need y'all's back-end support on the software because they're super shitty about any repurposed or pried Teslas and Elon never addressed it.
00:52:41.000That gentleman right there with the glasses, the larger bobblehead, that's Rich Rebuild.
00:53:14.000Now people can open source, hack the CAN data chain, and people are repurposing Tesla components.
00:53:21.000Like, I use Tesla batteries, but I haven't been using their motors or planetaries or anything else because, again, what do I tell my client when the client needs an update or a part?
00:53:29.000You go to the dealer, they're like, what's your VIN? And you're screwed.
00:53:35.000But yeah, like Stealth EV in fact has this new setup that they just started marketing where you literally take that IRS apart where the electric motor is built in, there's a little access door, you pull out a little circuit board, you put in another one and voila!
00:53:50.000Is there a setup like crate engines where, you know, or do you envision a setup where, because, you know, you know that the new Hummer is now going to be an electric vehicle, which is really interesting.
00:54:02.000And there's going to be a bunch of other electric vehicles that are coming out from Volkswagen that are really cheap and a bunch of different companies are jumping in.
00:54:09.000Do you envision there being some sort of a crate engine option for people that want to...
00:54:18.000Proof in the pudding to this point is that everyone's focusing on the do-it-yourself market, therefore also on the cheapest possible equation, which leaves a lot of, in my opinion, a lot of safety issues completely unaddressed and they can get downright nutty.
00:54:34.000So the other issue is they're all for ease of installation and conversion.
00:54:39.000Everyone's thinking about doing kits that literally are a spud plate and a short shaft to go where the engine used to be, put an electric motor to a bellhousing adapter to the stock transmission, which is stupid because electric cars going through manual transmissions,
00:54:54.000there's a lot of scavenging of energy.
00:54:57.000It's bad enough to go through a ring and pinion.
00:54:58.000Doing a right angle gear displacement of power, you lose so much efficiency.
00:55:04.000And the best EVs, in my opinion, are transmissionless or go through planetary set, you know, for gear reduction.
00:55:11.000Like that the Merck is the, to my knowledge, the first sort of retrofit EV that, you know, being the goober that I am, like, I was like, okay, we've done a couple EV builds, but if we're going to keep doing them, like...
00:55:41.000And that the scale of technology shifts changing so quickly in the EV space that as we were building it, suppliers of key components came out with another generation that's infinitely better than the V1 or V3 I already had.
00:55:56.000So even before we could finish that car, we were backing up and updating and updating and updating, which really, if you put sort of a marketeer hat on, I'm so proud of the value retention in my vehicles.
00:56:25.000Am I, like, making iPhones all of a sudden?
00:56:28.000So in two years, it's totally worthless because the tech is outdated?
00:56:32.000That is the weird thing about tech, right?
00:56:34.000Is that the exponential growth and improvement, it just makes...
00:56:37.000Like, no one wants an iPhone 1. Right.
00:56:41.000So look at, you know, internal combustion engine development cycles.
00:56:44.000What I put in today is still relevant in a decade.
00:56:47.000But with electric, it's a whole new space to consider.
00:57:17.000But then again, being that it's part of this industry, you know, I go grill the dudes at their trade show booth and they're like, uh, well, it's something we're working on.
00:57:28.000You know, just all these press releases and all that.
00:58:04.000Because now it's like, I don't want to say vaporware, but it's so much of that like...
00:58:10.000VC money, don't worry, we'll be profitable one day and we're worth a billion multiple of nothing today, so buy in.
00:58:18.000And then it's like so many of these EV startups and retrofit companies come to the scene looking for that elusive FedEx fleet contract that everyone thinks is going to be easy to get.
00:58:28.000And none of them get it and then they all go belly up.
00:58:31.000So I just think we're at that point in history where not only is the tech moving forward so quickly and not only that but the likes of predominantly only due to Tesla.
00:58:43.000It's proven the viability in the market.
00:58:46.000Now there's purists and traditionalists and everyone's starting to poke at it and I see exponential more interest.
00:58:52.000So I think, you know, for the next five years or so, it's going to be a bit tumultuous, but I definitely think it's the future of hot rodding.
00:59:00.000I imagine within five years, I imagine probably half of my client builds will be electric.
00:59:39.000Like nationwide to various levels of price expectation, range expectation, etc.
00:59:45.000But I think that's a really, it's a lovely community too.
00:59:49.000I've noticed it's much more open than the conventional automotive community is about sharing information and suppliers and knowledge and helping one another.
00:59:59.000And there's a really nice camaraderie within that community.
01:00:02.000There's like Movement Motors and Austin's doing really nice retrofits and Oh, yeah?
01:01:15.000So like I have an app when I'm driving that 49 Merc and I was – Speaking at Barrett-Jackson and had it there in town for while I was visiting.
01:01:24.000And then you network the apps and you find it.
01:01:27.000But we made that one supercharger compatible because the client's going to install one in his house and bunk the system.
01:01:33.000Otherwise, you try and go to a public Tesla charger.
01:01:35.000It has to do a handshake and it says, no.
01:02:25.000So depending on, to increase the versatility of it, you had a supercharger fast charge compatibility, and then you had the more widely distributed municipal format charger.
01:02:34.000And then there's just two different pigtail adapters.
01:02:44.000I think the reality is any EV project I build, I have to...
01:02:47.000Not only do I anticipate, but I've lost many clients because I'll be super...
01:02:53.000Blunt about managing their expectations that, look, you're going to spend a lot of money to have me do this.
01:03:00.000And trust, I will geek out and do the best of the state of the art that is available to us.
01:03:05.000But in a year, that might all be garbage.
01:03:07.000So you have to understand, either you're cool with this moment in time and the range in the performance and it is what it is, or you're a tech geek like most guys that are engaging in that.
01:03:17.000And you're going to be hammering money then coming back every couple of years for us to upgrade and evolve as the sciences evolve.
01:03:23.000Oh, you know, we build on a submodular, even like your Bronco is submodulally built.
01:03:27.000So your powertrain, the electrical network for your powertrain goes to a two single Deutch Tech 26 pin connectors, aerospace connectors.
01:03:37.000So one day when that powertrain is no longer relevant, but your truck still has good platform value, unplug that, yank it out and put in the hydrogen or the microcapacitor or whatever the hell's working at the time.
01:04:30.000I don't remember, it's been years, but it was some sort of, I think it was a ionic transfer process that went through a series of elements within the shielded box to create the energy, but they were like self-sustaining and super groovy.
01:06:41.000He's like, yeah, the biggest problem is stopping it once it gets going.
01:06:45.000Because the toroidal structure meant that the compression cycle from, you know, 12 to 2 of that first cylinder was such that when the combustion occurred and it propelled the next piston into the next combustion cycle and kept going.
01:06:58.000So getting that power out of the central crank was a challenge.
01:07:02.000And then how to stop the damn thing was like the bigger challenge.
01:08:11.000Then he had another product where you would replace the alternator in your car with a generator and you had a small battery in the vehicle, right?
01:08:22.000The retail model was brilliant because you'd have like a pretty cheesy and expensive three-axis mill and A shit ton of CAD files and one product on the shelf.
01:08:33.000So in a lightweight car, it was like an electric supercharger.
01:08:37.000So you'd replace your alternator and it had a toothed cog for the pulley.
01:08:41.000And then your crank pulley would add a toothed cog to it and then toothed belt.
01:08:46.000So the idea was it would assist the internal combustion engine through its compression cycle.
01:08:51.000It would negate the parasitic load of all the Fiat, all the front engine accessory drive mounted things, you know, your alternator, your smog pump or whatever.
01:08:59.000By pushing the engine through the cycle with the captured electrical energy from the deceleration.
01:09:06.000And then in bigger cars, it gave you like pass assist and range increase and did great things for MPG. And then the story I got on that one was BMW put them under a big contract for it to license it and use it.
01:09:20.000And then the guy disappeared off the face planet again.
01:09:35.000He created a car that runs on water and then this car that ran on water, I mean he apparently had a viable engine and it was really working and then he had a heart attack and as he was dying he was saying, they killed me,
01:10:03.000See that shit happens and I don't even like the term conspiracy theory because I think that's something created by the machine to negate things that are disruptive and innovative so we can put them in a little box and call it a conspiracy theory or whatever and therefore it never happened.
01:10:19.000Well anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracy theories I say look at Jeffrey Epstein.
01:10:25.000Meyer said that his invention could do what physicists say is impossible, turn water into hydrogen fuel efficiently enough to drive his dune buggy cross-country on 20 gallons straight from the tap.
01:10:36.000He took a sip of cranberry juice, then he grabbed his neck, bolted out the door, dropped to his knees, and vomited violently.
01:10:41.000I ran outside and asked him what's wrong.
01:10:43.000His brother Stephen Meyer recalled, he said, they poisoned me.
01:11:13.000Well, there's also a story that I read that I've tried to substantiate, that apparently he was...
01:11:17.000He was so frustrated by sexual desires and a love affair that he had and the distraction that it presented that he, in quotes, destroyed his sexuality.
01:12:34.000I mean, you know, have you heard of the Selden patent?
01:12:37.000Very interesting piece of American transportation history.
01:12:41.000This prick named Selden was one of the richest people in the country because he was like one of your early patent trolls who like sat back one day and went...
01:12:48.000You know, we got these horse carriages and we got these new motor things.
01:12:52.000And, you know, at some point there could be a horseless carriage.
01:12:55.000So he like literally did like a chicken scratch bullshit drawing and filed it and got awarded the patent.
01:13:02.000So Henry Ford and his first two companies, as well as the Dodge brothers, all the early pioneers in the transportation sector in the U.S. had to pay this prick a massive royalty to even produce the vehicle.
01:13:14.000And it was Henry, after he went down and under and he was reborn and came back out with Ford Motor Company the second time, that he said, you know what?
01:13:57.000The massive shift away from predominance of electric cars to internal combustion.
01:14:03.000So when you flash forward and you look at Mr. Payne's film, Who Killed the Electric Car?
01:14:08.000And you look at Firestone and who was it?
01:14:12.000Pacific Oil, but it was an oil company, a tire company.
01:14:16.000And they created that bus company and then they did all the lobbying to privatize municipal transport so that then they could slowly buy them all up.
01:14:24.000And, you know, California had an incredibly successful electric trolley system through the west side.
01:17:04.000I also, for a while, like, I wanted to do, there was a Dow Corning and somebody else, there was a big consortium that was doing a bioderivative molded plastic concepts.
01:17:15.000So, like, for your city trash cans and stuff, and the durability and the life cycles and everything were epic.
01:17:20.000And I was thinking for a while, like, how badass would it be to invest all the money in the platform of the vehicular engineering and then make the body literally...
01:19:26.000They're digging through all the places that the information came from, from the 40s and all the places that they were talking about making.
01:19:32.000The angry historian's pretty balls-out serious when he makes a statement.
01:20:26.000I mean, they still make Corvettes out of plastic.
01:20:29.000I'm still making them out of fiberglass.
01:20:30.000I would think that that would be like a real straightforward approach, especially now that hemp is legalized and you can grow it in the United States and most states.
01:21:31.000They're making such a disgusting amount of money in licensing, like key chains and bullshit, that like the core, even the engineering, tier one engineering aspect of Lotus and then the production, they're like, fuck that.
01:23:15.000So Malcolm Bricklin in the story goes that he drove around downtown LA and just, where are the prostitutes?
01:23:21.000Where do the whores hang out around here?
01:23:23.000Went over and like hired a bunch of the girls to, like, could you put on something a little more tame and like be here at this time for these days?
01:23:30.000And just like run the show and be their booth models and rep the cars.
01:23:34.000But like the cars as they came out of the container had disassembled themselves in transit.
01:23:51.000I would think that for a guy like you, who's building cars the way you're building them, the real challenge would be staff.
01:23:59.000I think that would be the real challenge, is finding people that understand what you're doing, finding fellow artisans that also understand how to build cars, that really get what you're doing.
01:24:11.000I love the state of California, but they do not want me here.
01:24:17.000They don't want anyone in California making anything except maybe solar-assisted bicycles.
01:24:23.000The business climate in the state of California and the associated HR costs and insurance and workman's comp and liabilities, like every couple weeks there's another absurd ruling that we get an update on that like, Wait, what?
01:24:38.000It's like, you mean to tell me if I catch a dude smoking crack while on the clock stealing my inventory, I can't fire his ass on the spot?
01:24:48.000Now if you do, you have to give him a week's pay at the time of letting him go, and you can't make him sign anything that indemnifies nor protects you.
01:24:58.000You have to put them on probation and offer therapy and resources.
01:25:51.000I'm like, what about the last nine years of inspectors coming in all the time and saying, you guys have the cleanest, most professional, above-board shop, kick-ass, well done, thank you so much for making my life good.
01:26:00.000He goes, yeah, they're idiots, I'm the new inspector.
01:26:02.000So the new inspector says you're not licensed.
01:26:06.000I'm not zoned appropriately to be in business where I'm at, despite having permits and everything for it.
01:26:32.000I don't know Should be going to my employees, not to insurance companies and all this bullshit that gets tagged on top.
01:26:42.000It's like for every dollar you pay someone now, there's another 32 cents that should be going to them that's going to sucker fish in industry insurance.
01:26:50.000I don't understand what they want you to do.
01:26:51.000How do they expect you to work in these cars?
01:26:55.000I had to lawyer up and we're fighting it.
01:26:58.000But I mean, literally, I honestly think they'd rather have a commercial weed facility in that building kicking out a hell of a lot more tax revenue than us.
01:27:14.000And just about any small business owner I know in the state of California, the challenges we're facing are getting to the point of making us We wonder about our own intellect for staying in the state.
01:28:22.000But look, at the end of the day, the reality is also, I'm going against what trade schools are telling young kids that are going into the field.
01:28:31.000They're telling kids that, here, if you run this scan tool, you'll make 150 grand a year as a lead tech at a BMW dealership.
01:28:39.000What they're not telling these kids, while sucking all their money out of them with crazy student loans and stuff, Yeah, that's like the kids in the street in Brazil all wanting to grow up to be Pele.
01:28:51.000So there's plenty of dudes at that dealership that are making minimum wage or thereabouts or dealing with the politics of flag hours or whatever.
01:28:59.000But what I'm having a hard time with is we charge $100 an hour for our labor.
01:29:06.000I can't just keep charging more and more and more at the level of what we do with projects that can run thousands of hours per job.
01:29:14.000The math is, it almost doesn't make sense.
01:29:18.000Like I honestly have guys that I think should be, I should be paying them 70, 80, 90, 100 grand a year to do what they do because they're artists and they deserve it.
01:29:27.000The bullshit of running a business in California and all of the exponential costs that are added on top, they even de-incentivize overtime now.
01:29:35.000If I give a dude overtime, it ups his tax rate and they take even more out of the overtime.
01:29:42.000Well, whatever happened to GDP and employment and productivity and keeping everything rolling, they're de-incentivizing us even to offer our employees more money with more hours.
01:29:54.000And I've lost several guys now that have gone to do jobs that they hate.
01:30:01.000But like the Department of Water and Power, I've lost several employees at DWP because they get a pension, they get killer health care, they get 90 grand a year to pick their nose and watch other people work.
01:30:18.000I think it might be the uber-green side of democratic because I think the whole two-party system is a shit show as it is anyway.
01:30:28.000I don't think it's about which party so much as I think we've empowered attorneys to such an extent that it's downright sinful because it's hindering industry.
01:30:56.000He jumped in a dumpster to stomp on everything to compress it in the dumpster.
01:31:01.000It started moving across the ramped parking lot, and he jumped out of it, clipped his leg on the way down, and shattered his arm in four spots.
01:31:26.000People, whatever happened to, like, be proud of what you do, be respected, be well-paid, everyone's content, everyone's, like, inspired and engaged.
01:31:36.000And I just feel like more and more there's just so much noise and Lawyers and policies, all this crap.
01:31:42.000It's like, we're just here to do something we love and get rewarded and pay people.
01:31:48.000I mean, I'm stoked that we support directly 58 families, plus all our sublets and everything else.
01:31:54.000But it's hard to retain people when we know we can't pay them what they're worth in this business environment.
01:32:03.000I have a really hard time with the whole crack thing.
01:32:05.000Catching someone stealing smoke and crack and you can't fire them.
01:32:29.000But I tell you, man, more and more, a surf shack with my own little garden out back and my little leather studio and sell shit on Instagram, simplify life.
01:33:10.000So that kind of reinvigorated but also refreshed my perspective to remind myself that someone's panties are in there not because their icon's been in storage for six months.
01:33:22.000They didn't plug it into the tender and the battery's dead and they want to call and yell at me about it.
01:33:52.000Well, there's a lot of silly people out there for sure, but it's just weird when they're empowered by the government.
01:33:56.000When you don't have a common sense approach to knuckleheads.
01:34:02.000If you've got a guy smoking crack and stealing things, you're not supposed to reward that kind of behavior with a week's paycheck.
01:34:09.000And it's like the, you know, the homeless challenge that we're facing.
01:34:13.000And, you know, when we try and address that, in my opinion, when that's addressed on a state level, it's going to fucking fail because then you're going to overburden that state.
01:34:20.000Even if they're innovative and brilliant in their solution, then the whole country tilts to that state and they all come a sliding over.
01:37:25.000And that attitude that people have, by thinking they're being open-minded and kind and nice, you are just enabling people to keep fucking up their life by not— Just get an award by showing up.
01:38:22.000I went to dinner the other night in Venice, one of the last times I could go to dinner for the next couple months, I think, in a restaurant.
01:38:27.000But when we went down there, there's a nice house, like a beautiful house in Venice.
01:38:31.000Across the street, there was 50 tents.
01:38:34.000Just filled with shit, broken bike parts and garbage and just things piled up.
01:38:40.000And you're like, this is the problem with being open-minded.
01:38:44.000And this is why people like when Rudy Giuliani cleaned up New York City with this totalitarian approach, like, the people that live in New York City that weren't homeless were like, fuck yeah, finally.
01:38:56.000Take these homeless people off the street.
01:41:08.000Do you think we could segment aspects of...
01:41:11.000Our culture, our society, meaning, do you think it would ever be viable?
01:41:15.000And I'm so politically ignorant, so maybe you're just going to laugh me out of the room.
01:41:19.000Could you socialize, legal defense, education, and healthcare?
01:41:24.000Like, do you think that would be viable as a hybrid where it's a democracy, it's a capitalist-driven system, but you take the money, therefore the corruption that takes us, like the business of medicine versus the art of medicine are completely different things.
01:41:41.000Give you a pill so you can live and then we'll give you another pill to deal with the ramifications of the side effects of the pill we gave you versus the cure got fucking shelved, you know, because there wasn't a rev model behind it.
01:41:52.000Do you think we could ever – would that ever work?
01:41:55.000I think education and healthcare for sure can be socialized.
01:41:58.000The question is would you get the same education, the same healthcare if it wasn't socialized?
01:42:02.000I think as long as you had private options, you would.
01:42:05.000And then the problem is, well, how much funds go towards these public education solutions?
01:42:14.000Versus the private options that have the access.
01:42:16.000Yeah, that's always going to be the issue.
01:42:18.000And that's because when people want...
01:42:21.000Look, if someone is excelling at something, whatever that is, whether it's teaching or being an orthopedic surgeon, they want to be rewarded for their efforts.
01:42:30.000Plus, they've probably acquired a massive amount of debt.
01:42:36.000If you're an orthopedic surgeon, you've gone through medical school, there's a strong chance that you're deeply in debt by the time you start cutting people.
01:43:06.000Yeah, I remember when I first started having my health issues, you know, I'm epileptic.
01:43:10.000And when I first started looking into that, and they were throwing darts at the wall for a decade, like, I don't know, could be this, could be that, endocrinologist, cardiologist, all these different specialists.
01:43:19.000And literally, the cardiologist sits me down and is like, okay, so here's what life with a pacemaker is like.
01:44:00.000They get desensitized to people's struggle.
01:44:03.000You and I talked about this, but did you look into ketogenic diets?
01:44:08.000Did you ever look into the idea of ketogenic diets and how it benefits epilepsy?
01:44:13.000I did just to the extent of doing some Google research promptly after our discussion.
01:44:19.000And I also was looking into medical marijuana approaches to it.
01:44:24.000But again, the beautiful state of California is such that I lose my license if I don't take the chemicals that big pharma promote because they do biannual blood tests.
01:44:46.000Especially with all the proof in CBD solutions, right?
01:44:51.000And it's been medically verified, but the state won't acknowledge it.
01:44:55.000So if you choose to go that route, not only obviously your insurance company won't pay for it, but you lose your license and everything else related to its regulations.
01:45:03.000But what if you go through all that and you have no issues?
01:45:07.000Like what if you can prove that your epilepsy is in remission?
01:45:11.000Then that can work, but it takes a year or longer to be able to prove that.
01:47:22.000And if you have weak defense, if you have a poor immune system, if your body is already compromised because of tobacco use and drugs and all these various things that can wreck your system and you don't exercise, and you're gonna get around to it, but you never do, and you eat like shit,
01:48:11.000I'm just really hoping that it's a wake-up call for some people, that they really understand how important it is.
01:48:16.000There's so many intelligent people that I know that treat exercise and diet and just your own physical well-being as if it's a frivolous pursuit of shallow-minded people.
01:48:29.000That want to, you know, the egotistical vain people that want to have nice bodies.
01:48:53.000But again, it's more of that polarization that unfortunately we're seeing in the last 10 years that's just growing exponentially.
01:49:00.000So that's one thing I hope out of this is that us amongst ourselves as Americans and as a larger family of people who only have one globe to live on, I hope there's more...
01:49:13.000I hope to see this create more cohesion, more of a unification amongst all mankind.
01:49:19.000To realize we all are dealing to different extents with the same challenges, the same potentials, the same liabilities, and get people back...
01:50:17.000So any arrogance because of convenience or wealth or resources or connections that we all have, it's pretty quick that none of that shit matters.
01:50:30.000But I hope, again, that there's a positive spin to that where people can...
01:50:34.000Understand and acknowledge that and therefore learn and connect and have greater consideration for our neighbors, ourselves, our own bodies, our mind, our spirit, but like get people more connected and like face out of their fucking phones.
01:50:49.000Yeah, I'm really interested to see what happens coming out of San Francisco because they're the first ones to impose a real lockdown.
01:50:58.000You're not even supposed to go to work.
01:51:14.000Well, I mean, you're really concerned with people's health, and you've got people literally diarrhea-ing on people's cars all over Haight-Ashbury.
01:51:40.000And they don't do a goddamn thing about it.
01:51:42.000And they seem to think that these people need help and these people need...
01:51:47.000But it's like if those people were murdering people or assaulting people, if all homeless people assaulted people, would they treat it the same way?
01:51:56.000You know, they would say, well, these people are breaking the law.
01:53:27.000Three weeks ago in downtown LA and, like, just trying to drive down his street to get in his parking lot, it was like a circus, man.
01:53:37.000And, like, they've not only taken over the curb in the street, they're walking down the middle of the street with an attitude like, I shouldn't be driving on the street.
01:53:44.000And, like, half the businesses on the block literally gave up and closed down.
01:53:48.000And they can't even, like, my friend wanted to move his company and the realtor's like, you're fucking dreaming.
01:53:53.000Like, I'm never going to sell this building right now.
01:55:06.000Like, should I be closing or am I breathing into – it's like I'm torn between this is social media gone wrong, too much hype and too much bullshit versus speaking to friends, a friend who's a scientist in the viral field and what she's telling me and friends who are doctors and a friend who's a doctor in Milan and the shit show he's dealing with.
01:55:26.000It's like – Okay, no, it's not just like, but it's very interesting trying to, I think all of us in all of our lives right now, picking our paths, picking our priorities, how do we address this?
01:55:36.000But then as a business owner, again, in California, there's liabilities to how you address or don't address it.
01:55:51.000Frankly, if it got that bad, I'd rather sell the company to someone who thinks they're smarter than me and they can do it and scale it and go there.
01:56:28.000Having said that, I need to listen to the capitalist pig on my right shoulder versus the creative geek on my left shoulder in that we've been quite successful as a company.
01:56:40.000I'm honored how many people know the brand.
01:56:42.000But I haven't like amassed some, you know, great personal wealth.
01:57:07.000I'm dying to get into all different aspects of industrial design.
01:57:11.000I'd love to do that on my own or through collaborations, but I think my goal would be to diversify my product line, to keep revisiting classic design in a modern context, but in many different ways and many different product segments.
01:57:28.000So, like, I am right now, and part of the trip to Mexico and to Morocco, Those trips were – and the last three years of practice and building prototype wallets and sort of side hustle on Instagram and stuff is really getting granular with it because I do want to start a leather goods brand.
01:57:54.000Dude, I literally, like, this jacket is, like, hand-cut, hand-stitched, not a single machine used, like, shitshow commercially inviolable.
01:58:05.000But I'm working with Horween Leathers in Chicago and a friend's brand called Black Bear, and we're, like, studying different patterns and prototyping.
01:58:13.000So I think I'm pretty soon, I'm going to launch, like...
01:58:17.000A limited run kick-ass jacket that's like layers of story down to why that leather and who made it and how and on and on and on.
01:58:29.000Well, I was like ready to go and now I'm thinking I'm an idiot to start a new brand right now so I might chill for a bit.
01:58:35.000Yeah, who knows what the fuck is going to happen to this economy.
01:58:38.000And like I said, I'm really interested to see what happens out of San Francisco because I think they've imposed a three-week mandatory lockdown.
01:58:54.000Yeah, that's what people don't understand.
01:58:57.000I mean, when someone looks at something that you create, like an Icon Bronco, and they look at the expense of that thing, and how, boy, it must be nice.
01:59:12.000I mean, I went to visit the car when you were making it.
01:59:15.000The level of detail is off the charts, from the polyurea coating of every fucking component under...
01:59:21.000The undercarriage of the car to the media blasting this, and they're replacing all the bolts and all the wiring, all of this.
01:59:27.000You don't really understand what it's like to see a handmade car built from the ground up, unless you watch it being built from the ground up.
02:00:41.000No, like, literally, we ranted about this, if anyone wants to listen to our first podcast when we first met, and just we geeked out for hours and hours, but like, the whole educational system alone, like, should be focused on helping our youth understand what they're passionate about.
02:00:57.000If someone finds their passion and can make it their life, they're a happier individual and they're going to break new ground and be of great value versus trying to fit everyone into these bullshit social silos, most of which are broken and overflowing now.
02:01:12.000Like the Watson computer is better than general counsel.
02:01:17.000At a huge percentage difference, AI can outdo these lawyers in like coming out of school in six digits of debt and they can't get jobs.
02:03:46.000But one of the things I figured out early on is I spend the most time with my friends when we sit down and do podcasts because then there's no phones involved.
02:03:55.000It's just three hours of just talking to each other.
02:03:58.000Whereas, you know, if we go to a restaurant, we'll talk for a little bit, but we only do it once every now and then, and they're on the road, and I'm on the road, and so getting together was like a communal thing, and then it became like a clubhouse thing, and then we started doing it at the Ice House, so it was at a comedy club, so we'd coincide with shows,
02:04:17.000And then slowly but surely, the numbers started growing, and as the numbers started growing, then I started getting guests, and then as I started getting guests, I started understanding what I'm actually doing and getting better at talking to people.
02:04:30.000And then realizing that what you're doing is linking up with one person.
02:06:08.000While we have the power to say no and to control what we do, what we say yes to, and what we say no to, as long as the market allows both of us to do that, we'll stay in our little happy place.
02:06:21.000What I hope out of this coronavirus thing is other than people stay healthy, of course.
02:06:26.000Is that people do revisit what they do with their lives as well and recognize the fact that all this shit can go away and even if you're a good boy and you show up at work every day for some fucking job that sucks and you feel like you're putting in your time and you're doing the right thing, they can take that shit away from you.
02:06:42.000Ain't none of us getting out of here alive.
02:08:11.000I'm just happy there's people out there that are living that example.
02:08:16.000And I really do hope that some people, I mean, it's not for everybody, but some people out there that are hearing this, That are in this situation like fuck like I did all the right things and my job is still gone now and my You know my pension 401k tank blah blah blah The real problem is people with families people with families and people with mortgages and they can't jump they have leases they have you know rent to pay and It's still argument nights and weekends stay up a little later nights and weekends nights and weekends Even if it just gives you the
02:08:46.000creative creative juice Get that juju flowing.
02:08:50.000And then you can dabble in, is there a rev model?
02:08:55.000But, man, nights and weekends, staying motivated and excited and thinking and stretching and trying versus just plugging in and watching the same shit being forced on our throat by media.
02:09:08.000There's so much that can be done even just at that level.
02:09:11.000The effort to push that car and then jump start it as it gets rolling.
02:10:53.000330-some vehicles out of Icon and then a couple thousand out of the first brand out of TLC. And what is that, like a week out of GM? Not even, right?
02:11:41.000I mean, Mayor Villagosa found me the damn building personally.
02:11:44.000Like, they were great, but I don't know.
02:11:47.000I think, you know, what a lot of people are telling me, and we're seeing this even at Bureau of Automotive Repair, California Resource Forces, there's a lot more regulation occurring now.
02:11:59.000Because since California and the Trump administration have gotten pretty deep in this argument over does California have the right to create its own air quality control mandates or not, that it's sucking so much money out of the California system that they're having to scramble to come up with new rev models.
02:12:18.000So like a lot of the aftermarket automotive like for off-road use only – We're good to go.
02:12:43.000I mean, I understand the desire to keep air quality high, but I don't understand that you're using all these cars that are, you know, you're using these emission-compliant engines.
02:12:54.000I mean, these LS engines that you're using, these crate engines.
02:12:57.000Yeah, I'm putting cats and systems into cars that never had them.
02:13:02.000All the vehicles that we create actually emit less being driven like an idiot than the stock one did sitting in a parking lot not even being driven.
02:13:10.000If just by fact of the charcoal canister in the non-vended fuel system.
02:13:49.000Yeah, and it's not like the 90s where you're putting in EGR and smog pumps and five miles of vacuum tubes and shit that's not going to be reliable.
02:13:58.000I mean, now it's all about wideband O2s, pre-cat, post-cat O2s, boom, boom, and a clean program.
02:14:19.000But from what I understood, the distribution of hydrogen was the big deal breaker in that the hydrogen that is readily distributed, if I recall correctly, was a lower grade that would not work in the systems required for hydrogen-powered automobiles.
02:14:38.000So it was a complete infrastructure shitshow to get it to the point of viable.
02:14:42.000Same with Capstone that was doing those micro-turbines out in Chatsworth, Canoga Park area.