Joe and Joe talk about the latest outbreak of the flu, and compare it to the 1918 pandemic and the Hong Kong flu pandemic of the late 70s and early 80s. Joe talks about his own personal experiences with the pandemic, and how he managed to survive it. Joe also talks about how the government is doing their best to prepare for the worst case scenario, and what it means for the future of our health care system and our ability to deal with major pandemics like this in the future. Joe also asks the question, when will we ever get back to normalcy? And Joe explains why he doesn t think we should be worried about the next one, and why he thinks it s going to be worse than the first pandemic in the history of pandemic's in terms of its impact on our health and well-being. This is an [Expert] level episode, which means some parts of the conversation may not make sense unless you ve listened to the whole thing. Please bear with us while we work out the kinks in this one. We re still figuring it out, and we ll figure it out together. Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Theme by Mavus White. Music by PSOVOD and tyops. We are working on transcribing this episode and putting it on SoundCloud. Thank you for your support and feedback. If you like what you hear, please leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe, review, and subscribe to our podcast. Subscribe to our channel! and share it on your thoughts on whatever you re listening to this episode is a good one! We re looking out for you like it and/or share it with your friends! we re listening out there and we re looking forward to hearing from you! on social media and sharing it on the next episode of the podcast and other places that you re sending us your thoughts, too! thank you. XOXO and all feedback is appreciated! XO, Joe, Joe and Joe <3 xoxo, Sarah - The Biggest threat to the flu. - Joe, the Biggest Threat to the Flu? - The Flu is a big threat to our health is the Flu is Bigger than the Flu, Biggest Problem is Bigest Threat to Our Health? - & much more!
00:01:13.000I've been talking to a lot of friends that are on the extremely cautious side, let's say that, and they're not going anywhere, and they're wearing gloves and masks when they step outside their house to go do something in the backyard, and they put the glove and mask down, and they spray it with Lysol when they come inside.
00:01:31.000It's not healthy, and it is also healthy.
00:01:34.000I mean, the idea that we have not been tested in so long, it's good to remember also that this stuff is live and real, and it has always been live and real.
00:01:45.000And, you know, if it was possible to live without this stuff, that would be one thing.
00:01:49.000But this 75-year nap that we've been in since 1945 is itself the greatest threat to all of us.
00:01:56.000And our preparedness is just a wonderful indicator of Where you actually get to see this is the quality of your experts.
00:02:04.000This is the quality of your leadership.
00:02:05.000This is what they look like when put under stress.
00:02:11.000And I'm impressed with the medical community.
00:02:14.000I'm impressed with the people that are recognizing that this is a huge problem.
00:02:19.000Not so impressed with the administration of a lot of these hospitals that haven't prepared in terms of like masks and ventilators and a lot of these other things.
00:02:28.000Not so impressed with politicians, but also it just seems like everyone, like you said, was in this nap state and hadn't really been tested and really globally tested.
00:02:40.000No one had been tested since the pandemic of 1918 like this, right?
00:02:44.00068, which I had, I had the Hong Kong flu, and 57 were sort of the best parallels to this.
00:03:46.000But you, as a health geek, are up on these sorts of things.
00:03:51.000And so you understand the ways in which, you know, for example, you can have a flu where the, I guess, the cytokine storm, you know, the threat from your immune system is, like, bigger than the virus itself.
00:04:02.000There are all these various weird things that happen.
00:04:04.000But I think that, let's call it the big nap.
00:04:26.000We just hit the pause button for a little while and we hit snooze.
00:04:29.000Yeah, the fear is also that nefarious players will take this opportunity to erode civil rights, to erode civil liberties, and then China to gain power in the US market, to gobble up a lot of stocks while everything is down,
00:04:46.000and try to increase their stake in our economy, and try to push, you know...
00:04:52.000China's got its hands lovingly around our throat because our elite have been moving into greater and greater states of China dependence, right?
00:05:01.000And so I think this is what the BDSM community refers to as breath play, and I don't like it.
00:05:07.000Breath play is like you kind of like half choke somebody?
00:06:24.000Then you can have a situation where a director has to move things to China because that is in the best interest of the shareholders, even if it's absolutely not in the best interest of the United States.
00:06:35.000This is what Ralph Gomery, who used to head the Sloan Foundation, once said in an address I was at at the National Academy of Sciences.
00:06:42.000He just said, as a director, I am incentivized to do exactly the wrong thing for the United States of America.
00:06:48.000So I'm going to put one hat on and tell you, as an American, we must not move all of this over to China.
00:06:55.000And then I'm going to put my director's hat on and I'm going to vote to move everything over to China because I have no choice.
00:07:01.000And so, you know, in essence, the smart, good people, all 11 of them, were always fighting this thing about you cannot become China-dependent.
00:07:12.000And during the big nap, I think we're good to go.
00:07:28.000And that is really the problem is that there wasn't any ability to say we are way too dependent on a strategic rival.
00:07:36.000You saw this at the beginning of the pandemic.
00:07:42.000I don't want to appear like Chicken Little.
00:07:43.000And so all of our friends, the nutcases, the marginal weirdos, the supposed grifters and gadflies are the people who most got this one right and early.
00:07:54.000And all the respectable people, like Nancy Pelosi telling people, please go to Chinatown to celebrate the Chinese New Year.
00:08:00.000Bill de Blasio of New York saying, despite coronavirus, get out there.
00:08:49.000Do you not like people from other countries?
00:08:51.000Do you not want to buy things from other countries?
00:08:53.000It was like this Made in America thing was like...
00:08:56.000People disregarded it in a lot of ways.
00:08:58.000But when you realize that all of our medical supplies, like so much of our electronics, so much of all the stuff that you need to kind of keep things exactly the way they are, it's cheaper to make it over there.
00:09:12.000Because they will, like what we saw with Foxconn, where they put nets around the building to keep people from jumping off.
00:09:19.000The weirdest thing was people trying to argue that the suicide rate at Foxconn was essentially the same as the suicide rate in the general population.
00:09:36.000There's nets around where they work because so many people where they work jump off the building to end their life because their life sucks that bad.
00:10:00.000The problem is we are all hooked up to this need for cheap products, profits, when we can't figure out how to innovate enough to actually create the juice in our own system.
00:11:26.000Now you're stuck with either having to learn to live in steady state, which none of us – Americans have no program for living in steady state.
00:11:43.000All right, so now we have this problem where we don't have the growth and we need the growth.
00:11:48.000And then in a weird way, the planned obsolescence is like fake growth.
00:11:52.000It means that we're going to rebuy our phones as if they were now highly innovative.
00:11:58.000So there's like a weird way in which we become dependent on nonsense.
00:12:03.000Yeah, dependent on nonsense is a great way to put it.
00:12:07.000This is really highlighting that for a lot of people.
00:12:09.000When people are home and they're with their families and they're not traveling, especially people like me and my peers, like a lot of my comedian friends who travel constantly, we're like, it's kind of nice to be home.
00:12:21.000You know, everyone's sort of re-looking at this.
00:12:23.000Is this life that we've sort of accepted as this is the way things are?
00:12:29.000Is this really the way things should be?
00:12:32.000Or is this just we just got caught in a pattern and we're operating on momentum?
00:12:36.000If our comedian force becomes non-dysfunctional, we are screwed.
00:13:11.000If the comedy store was just locked down on, like, a 500-acre piece of property and there's a bunch of houses on there, we would just entertain each other.
00:14:03.000You got me hammered two times ago and I was just – I stumbled out of that thinking that was the best time and I couldn't remember anything.
00:14:13.000Even when non-comedians like yourself and Melissa and Matt and some of their friends and all these other people come there and they're around these people, they act freer.
00:15:38.000Of all of the presidential candidates that were in the race, like everybody's dropped out as well, which of them would you want in a COVID situation?
00:17:28.000You know, I mean, I don't even need to name names, but they're doing their best impression of a politician, like a shitty comedian will do their best impression of Dave Attell.
00:17:39.000That's the best example that someone gave me of the comparison.
00:17:44.000There's a style of communicating that a lot of them have adopted to try to appear.
00:17:50.000And you can tell that they're coached.
00:17:51.000They're trying to appear presidential.
00:18:16.000This is the weird thing because really before COVID, I was in this Bernie Yang Tulsi mindset, which is just what is the furball that I can shove down the throat of the DNC to make the party fall apart under that Hillary Clinton overhang?
00:19:12.000I think that we need to revisit some stuff, which All of this anger and ferocity that we were using to stand up to social engineering invading the mainstream conversation,
00:19:29.000I believe that COVID proves that it is deadly.
00:19:33.000That if your top concern is not appearing xenophobic, people will die because you are functionally incompetent.
00:19:40.000You've just lost 40 IQ points for nothing.
00:19:43.000Well, that was the initial response to Trump's...
00:19:46.000The idea of shutting down flights from China, people were furious and they were calling it racist.
00:19:52.000Well, the idea that you can put a negative sign in front of Donald Trump and form an opinion that if he's stupid, then whatever the reverse of what he does is smart, is itself moronic.
00:20:17.000That's a huge problem if you're lumping me in with – Well, that's what I'm trying to say.
00:20:21.000But this is the problem which – I think I get this actually better than you, which is you have a beautiful life and you recognize that part of it comes with humility of not thinking too much of yourself, being self-deprecating, all these things.
00:20:36.000I think that those are all to your credit.
00:20:39.000And if you believe that you having to break out of whatever mindset you're in could be the difference between saving physicians' lives and nurses' lives, you'd do it.
00:20:52.000Okay, well, this thing is the flagship Of pirate radio.
00:20:57.000I mean, this is Samizdat for the world.
00:21:00.000And the concept of Samizdat, that you would have truth that would circulate underground in the Soviet Union, that would not be – like you are seldom rebroadcast inside of like MSNBC or CNN, except when they're like going after you.
00:21:15.000Well, what's weird is Fox News rebroadcasts me all the time.
00:21:19.000Well, because Fox – there are two sort of dominant narratives.
00:21:22.000Fox News is the flagship inside the right of center gated institutional narrative and then you have all the other organs like MSNBC, CNN, NPR, BuzzFeed, whatever these things are in the left of center gated institutional narrative.
00:21:40.000Very often Fox will pick up on things that we do if they stick it in the eye of the left.
00:21:48.000And so the point is that they selectively amplify us and that process of selective amplification is itself dangerous.
00:21:55.000Like I get invited more frequently by Fox and people and I turn them down because the narrative inside of like the New York Times is, well, he's – It's part of that right-wing thing.
00:22:10.000Frequent Fox News contributor, Eric Weinstein.
00:22:13.000Oh, that's the adjective occupation name.
00:22:53.000I think that CNBC and MSNBC and CBS and NBC and ABC, they all realize that they're in this really weird situation where they have to do these seven-minute segments interrupted by commercials.
00:24:09.000I think he's in, weirdly, the toughest spot of us all.
00:24:12.000Well, he's a guy who's on the left also, who thinks that a lot of the stuff, as I do and as you do as well, a lot of the stuff that's perpetrated by the people on the left is not just dangerous, but it's...
00:24:59.000I think that it's really important to use...
00:25:03.000I mean, I don't know him at all, but...
00:25:06.000To the extent that that was a beachhead to connect these two universes, my model of this is that we've got this traditional legacy world and we've got this sort of internet world that hovers above it.
00:25:18.000And in general, the insulating layer between them is astounding at this late date.
00:25:23.000The number of things that happen on the internet that don't really have any echo inside of the mainstream is astounding in 2020. And then you get these arcs that happen between the two.
00:25:33.000So, for example, the famous Sam Harris interaction with Ben Affleck on Bill Maher's show was an arcing between these two universes.
00:25:40.000Well, it was also a guy on steroids that was roid raging at a guy who actually knows what he's talking about.
00:26:24.000So what I am trying to say is that in a generalized sense, she was just doing that same old, same old thing with a person who is not participating.
00:27:27.000My take on it is that the great thing about – we have an ability to do almost anything we want on YouTube so long as we don't get shut down.
00:27:40.000However, you also have this concern that as long as this world remains gated – If, for example, you have a closed world of people who are pretending to have conversations amongst themselves discussing the issues, and then you have the institution saying,
00:27:57.000we're only going to deal with the authoritative sources.
00:28:00.000Then the problem is that if you have a state of pretend LARPing or kayfabe, whatever you want to call it, that's taking place inside the gated institutional narrative, the institutions are going to predicate their actions on the official nonsense.
00:28:14.000And whatever we do on YouTube, as long as there is an insulating layer, unless we can actually lob something over the walls of the citadel, They will continue to actually act as if we'd never said anything.
00:28:28.000It's like you're at this kid's magic show, which the magician is completely incompetent and the lights are on and you can see all the wires and trap doors and the magic show continues to go on.
00:28:38.000And so you may make the point, well, everybody can see that it's bullshit.
00:28:42.000But as long as the institutions agree to pretend that they believe the bullshit, we have a real problem.
00:29:05.000Like this idea that the mainstream news is the mainstream.
00:29:09.000Well, how is that real if YouTube videos get more views?
00:29:12.000Like if you make a YouTube video and it gets 5 million views, but then something goes on MSNBC and it gets 500,000 views, what's mainstream?
00:29:50.000But there's still a function, unfortunately, to the...
00:29:54.000So I love the point that you're making.
00:29:56.000I'm just trying to figure out how to play with it.
00:29:59.000Let's assume that there is no mainstream left.
00:30:01.000What we're really talking about is legacy institutional media.
00:30:05.000And the great danger is that – assume that the mainstream completely exits the building and it's only 10,000 people trading bullshit amongst themselves but they also control all the institutions.
00:30:17.000So like you, the world, gets to keep reality.
00:30:22.000And we, the institutions, agree to traffic and bullshit.
00:30:25.000You can make lots of jokes at our expense, but we're also going to be figuring out whether we're going to stock masks or what our farming policy is or how the U.S. military should be deployed and where we should send troops to protect oil fields and all these kind of things.
00:30:40.000And that's what's concerning me, is that a lot of us are settling for being right and having them look like idiots.
00:30:46.000And their point is, okay, fine, we'll continue on.
00:30:49.000We'll look like idiots, but we also still control the levers.
00:30:52.000So with legacy media, your assertion is that legacy media has a much more impactful presence in terms of foreign policy, in terms of dealing with the pandemic, the response, things along those lines?
00:31:08.000Let's play with it and see where it goes.
00:32:06.000Well, that's what they've been saying, right?
00:32:08.000And so the issue is that you have some piece of nonsense.
00:32:12.000That is a piece of nonsense because California is now changing their recommendation and saying, if you're going out in public, you should wear a mask.
00:32:30.000I mean, what we have is a situation in which we knew that the mask and personal protective equipment supplies are wildly off to say nothing of ventilators and ICU beds.
00:32:44.000So we have rules like, please don't bring masks to work because it scares the patients, or please don't wear homemade masks because they might actually be more germ-filled or virus-filled.
00:33:03.000What you wish to be true to get the action that you're looking for.
00:33:08.000What we have is a prisoner's dilemma, where if everybody runs and buys up masks, the people we need to be protected most are the heroes who are actually dealing with multiple COVID patients and taking huge amounts of viral load.
00:33:21.000So there's no question in my mind that those are the people that, as a society, if you would level with us.
00:33:31.000You know, my fellow Americans, as readiness are, I am forced to tender my resignation effective Friday this week.
00:33:39.000I have failed to heed many of the warnings in our academic literature.
00:33:44.000Because our reserves are severely depleted, it is imperative that we not suffer further loss of life, and therefore I am forced to make an unusual request.
00:33:54.000Having failed you, I'm asking everyone who stockpiled masks for personal use to think about doing something sacrificial for the good of us all.
00:34:03.000Our heroes are currently exposed to the coronavirus and taking huge amounts of viral load, and I'm asking you to donate any unused masks that you have to this population as we are desperately trying to replenish our stocks.
00:34:19.000Please continue to shelter in place and recognize that the benefit to you is minor and the benefit to us all is major.
00:34:25.000And this will be following your heroic impulse to bring us back together as a nation.
00:34:30.000First of all, is there a readiness czar?
00:34:32.000Second of all, no one's going to say that.
00:34:34.000They're never going to admit – they're going to say we are adjusting our – we're adjusting our recommendations based on the new – No.
00:34:43.000Joe, I'm going to be completely unreasonable.
00:34:45.000I know I have this mode where I just – I become completely unreasonable.
00:35:00.000I have not been off my property for weeks.
00:35:03.000The reason I'm here, in part, is to do what little I can, and very little, to support the people who are our literal heroes, our life and death, putting themselves in harm's way.
00:35:17.000The idea of hospital administrators, Abusing our physicians and nurses makes me apoplectic with rage.
00:35:25.000The fact that these people are told that they can't talk to the press and they write to me and their family and their children write to me.
00:35:42.000It is time for these people to resign and it is time for us to remember that we have the ability to turn over our own government.
00:35:49.000This is – we are so unprepared as a nation and we have been sold out for so long by our self-appointed leadership class who nobody wants.
00:36:02.000That we either remember who we are and how this game is played.
00:36:06.000I mean this is like – this is a pre-war footing and this can easily lead to war.
00:36:11.000The transmission mechanism is you have everybody stay indoors.
00:36:27.000Yeah, this is what you were saying on the phone.
00:36:54.000And we Jews have a tradition that I wish everybody had, which is that we read one stupid story every goddamn year, just to drill it into your head to make sure it's always fresh.
00:37:03.000And this is, when it's time to leave, when it's time to change, don't wait for the bread to rise.
00:37:10.000This is what I say to every Jewish person, like, you're sitting around waiting for the bread to rise, because they all know the story, which is, you eat the goddamn matzah, because the people who waited for the bread to rise are no longer with us, and their descendants are no longer with us.
00:37:29.000The reason that you and I both came to the word Tulsi instantly – I don't think you took much deliberation – is because Tulsi would know what to do.
00:37:39.000Well, she's also the least encumbered.
00:37:43.000She's the least burdened by the ties to the system.
00:38:40.000And as people like you and me who love our civil liberties, I believe that in part, Singapore's draconian society lives off of things that only we can do due to our freedom.
00:38:52.000So you have to realize that freedom is itself an export.
00:38:55.000And one of the great dangers is that China...
00:38:58.000Has been exporting the benefits of freedom from the United States into an authoritarian system so that they get the benefits of both worlds.
00:39:06.000They get the benefits of our middle finger, which I think is the secret of American innovation.
00:39:11.000And they get the benefits of authoritarianism where they can do things that we can't because they can order people to do the unconscionable.
00:39:18.000So my feeling is I'm on team civil liberties and team civil liberties has to be Somewhat nationalistic, more militaristic, more command and control.
00:39:42.000And I would want sometimes people to subordinate to me if I was taking a lead on something important.
00:39:47.000When we have this fear of leadership, because we're all so individualistic that we never want to take an order, Whenever I'm training a new assistant or something, one of my always best practices is, can I get you coffee?
00:40:02.000It's very important to show that the ability to serve somebody else and the ability to lead are tied.
00:40:11.000You have to be a follower to be a leader and a leader to be a follower.
00:40:27.000We need people of this mentality because the nap is coming to an end.
00:40:30.000And I do think Nancy Pelosi needs to resign and Bill de Blasio needs to resign.
00:40:36.000I think that this administration made some good moves and fumbled the ball.
00:40:42.000And I believe that past administrations made some good moves and fumbled the ball.
00:40:45.000And the imperative is to stop backpropagating what you want us to do, like defeat a prisoner's dilemma.
00:40:55.000And come up with a lie that would cause us to act selfishly, rationally.
00:41:00.000Like if you tell me that a mask is actually more dangerous in my hands because it becomes germ-filled, then the idea is like, oh, okay, so I guess I won't use the mask.
00:41:09.000Well, yeah, because you lied to me and the idea is that that's what you're trying to do.
00:41:13.000You're trying to say, what would need to be true to get you to do what I want?
00:41:16.000I don't understand what you're saying about these masks.
00:41:25.000And I say, you know, Joe, a seatbelt could trap you.
00:41:28.000Should your car go into the water off of a bridge, you could in fact die from the seatbelt because you'd become entangled and would not be able to save yourself.
00:41:39.000But is it possible that they're just acting poorly with this mask thing, but that masks actually can contain a lot of viruses and they can hold on to viruses?
00:41:49.000Seatbelts can kill you, but do you believe – that's what I'm trying to do.
00:41:52.000I'm trying to say it as a related rate problem.
00:41:54.000Let's talk about everybody who gets sick and dies from contaminated masks.
00:41:57.000Everybody who gets sick and dies from a false feeling of safety.
00:42:01.000Let's just go through a huge list of every bad thing.
00:42:05.000And now the idea is think about all the lives saved because of masks, both in terms of transmission, which I don't cough on you, I cough into the mask, or in terms of I don't breathe in, either aerosolized or droplets, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
00:42:17.000And now the two are real, but you're focusing on the seatbelt deaths of entanglement because you actually have a...
00:42:30.000What do you think their covert agenda is?
00:42:33.000But if I had to speculate, I'd go like this.
00:42:36.000One, we're terrified of triage deaths, deaths that occurred simply because we didn't have enough resources that were mandated to be stockpiled or talked about in the literature.
00:42:47.000Then there's liability, which is, oh, we were following the Surgeon General's recommendation at the time.
00:42:53.000Now, if somebody suddenly found, you know, like all the masks in the world, I think that the Surgeon General would suddenly say the science has become conclusive.
00:43:03.000Because there would no longer be a worry about liability.
00:43:06.000You would just get those masks to the people.
00:43:08.000You'd get the masks to the people who need them, and then you'd stop transmission.
00:43:19.000There is figuring this out as it goes along.
00:43:21.000As regards to the masks, I believe that everybody knows that masks save lives on balance.
00:43:27.000They know that the people who need them most have very weird rules.
00:43:33.000There's this whole thing about the states versus the federal government.
00:43:36.000There's this issue about price gouging and price mechanisms.
00:43:40.000There are all sorts of things stopping the mask problem from being sorted out, one of which is the number of masks that are produced in China and the fact that we may have sent masks and personal protective equipment to China.
00:43:56.000So there's a huge issue of accountability and responsibility and that we're backpropagating our response.
00:44:03.000How much are we quarantined and how much are we locked down?
00:44:05.000What are we saying about why the physicians are being told not to wear masks when they're seeing patients?
00:44:15.000I mean, I'm talking about deadly nonsense, deadly structural nonsense.
00:44:19.000And if people like you and me don't call this out using...
00:44:24.000Like these crazy channels that we have.
00:44:30.000And so partially what we're doing is a parallel sense-making operation to the standard media, which is Twitter said, we will now be removing tweets if you contradict official authoritative health sources.
00:45:34.000Explain what he did to people that don't know because people are listening here and they're a little confused.
00:45:38.000He was asked about the Taiwanese response to the COVID epidemic.
00:45:42.000And he didn't want to say Taiwan, because China claims that Taiwan is part of China.
00:45:50.000And because China exercises so much influence over the WHO, he wanted to say some very general thing, which is like, I think all provinces of China have been doing an excellent job, meaning a different country, Taiwan, because there's a dispute.
00:46:06.000So what do you think China's most interested in?
00:46:08.000The People's Republic of China, the Communist Chinese want no recognition of their existing something called Taiwan.
00:46:20.000Trevor Burrus And why does the World Health Organization give into that?
00:46:26.000Well, how do different nations get control of things?
00:46:30.000You know, we have influence at the UN, and we've caused the UN to do things that are America-centric.
00:46:37.000You know, other countries have influence, and you do this by being on particular committees, rotating directorships, who pays the cost.
00:46:46.000I don't know how the WHO seems to be so enmeshed with China.
00:46:51.000And I don't want to opine about these things because I want to keep my voice...
00:46:56.000But it spoke volumes to watch that guy do that little dance, try to avoid saying Taiwan.
00:47:02.000My entire life looks like that interview.
00:47:04.000I hate to say it this way, but my relationship with authority and my big critique is that this is the generic expectation across almost all institutions now.
00:47:16.000They are all serving bizarre goals because growth is what gave us our independence.
00:47:22.000And when we became less innovative and we – or the innovation dried up and we couldn't grow our way into new things, the number of people who could use their middle finger effectively and say, I'm steering this organization to do the right thing and this is my bet and we're going to go forward.
00:47:54.000You have special people who really only shine when there's an emergency.
00:47:58.000There's a guy named Jaiprakash Narayan in India who's very important.
00:48:04.000He was one of the sort of founding fathers of modern India.
00:48:07.000And after Indian independence was achieved, lots of the people who had been founding fathers went to the next phase where they became like – they enriched themselves.
00:48:18.000They did standard political things to gain power in the system.
00:49:21.000I mean, this Fauci guy is obviously an expert in diseases, and he's a doctor, and he's trying to do his best to lay out the ground rules of what we need to do and what this looks like over the next couple of months.
00:49:32.000But it's like Jocko Willink, you know?
00:49:36.000Jocko is not telling you, don't worry.
00:49:38.000You don't have to change your routine.
00:50:19.000And that's what I'm trying to get at, which is we have a situation where we know, if you have two trainers and one of them is doing the don't worry, and the other one is saying, I'm not going to lie to you.
00:51:58.000And we have to clean out this class of people that put up with each other.
00:52:01.000It's like the reason they put up with each other and they don't like indict each other or sue each other or report each other is that they're all the same.
00:52:08.000And that was the key skill for between 35 and 50 years, which is knowing what not to say to upset the institutional apple cart.
00:52:19.000Well, that is politics, and that's one of the things that disgusts people about it.
00:52:23.000That's one of the reasons why Donald Trump actually got into office.
00:52:28.000Because people looked at him as an antidote.
00:53:14.000Look, Joe Biden being the main guy is the only reason why they went after Bernie Sanders and went after me.
00:53:19.000I mean, the whole idea was just to reinforce the idea that Bernie Sanders is making poor choices by connecting to him to someone who says fucked up things when he's trying to be funny.
00:53:28.000You know, and you put it in print with some quotations behind it and like, wow, this guy's awful.
00:53:33.000You know, everything out of context is awful.
00:53:36.000And what they're trying to do, without a doubt, is the same thing we're talking about.
00:53:40.000The guy who's willing to dance with them, which is Joe Biden.
00:53:44.000The guy who's the professional politician.
00:53:47.000They don't give a fuck if he can barely talk.
00:53:49.000They don't give a fuck if he forgets what he's saying halfway into conversations.
00:53:52.000But this is the whole thing about the gated institutional narrative.
00:53:55.000The key issue, and I learned this when I used to do immigration stuff in Washington during the 90s.
00:54:01.000I learned this concept of steady hands.
00:54:04.000This is like one of the most terrifying phrases ever.
00:54:06.000So I told you, I think at some point, that in New York, whenever people are deciding to do a bad thing to screw people over, they always use the phrase, it's a beautiful thing, meaning that you can extract money from people who have no say in the matter.
00:54:35.000That means you can count on him to do the wrong thing in an emergency to keep everybody on the inside okay.
00:54:41.000And there's like a separate system for promoting the people who do the wrong thing and making sure because everybody inside is super dependent on somebody burning all of their credibility in public.
00:54:56.000Yeah, I mean, that's the main hope of this free information society, that all of these disgusting practices, these legacy practices get exposed.
00:55:24.000Then you had, like, Mike Bloomberg, Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, and Donald Trump.
00:55:30.000So everyone was, like, born between 41 and 49. Now, all of those people would be the oldest president, all of them, the oldest president at inauguration.
00:56:29.000But people think of that as maybe a substance issue.
00:56:32.000Like he goes up and he goes down and sometimes he catches it on the wrong part of the wave and that's when he's in front of the camera and he struggles through it but he literally can't pronounce words.
00:56:43.000But then he'll bounce back and he'll be fine.
00:57:37.000Whenever you lose consciousness, that's a bad sign.
00:57:39.000We don't know what it was that she was doing.
00:57:41.000But what I'm trying to get at would be that...
00:57:44.000We are dependent on these people that we are told are trolls as the free people.
00:57:49.000And I remember Orwell talking about the proletariat, where the proletariat was weirdly free and the central people were the ones who had no freedom.
00:57:59.000I saw this also in the fall of the Soviet Union.
00:58:01.000I had family in Moscow and Kiev and in Chernoff Sea that we discovered right at the end of the Soviet Union.
01:02:06.000His neck was so strong, he could tie a noose around it and drop six feet and hang there.
01:02:14.000By the way, if you want to read a great book on professional wrestling, I would highly recommend the book Ringside, which talks about the evolution.
01:02:22.000So what I call K-fabrication is the transition of something that usually has twin attributes, is very dangerous and very boring.
01:02:33.000So old-style wrestling was incredibly dangerous and people would be crippled from about.
01:02:40.000So as a result, they would often just like circle each other and not really engage.
01:02:45.000Mostly war is extremely boring and then obviously can be quite deadly.
01:02:50.000So in order to routinize these things, we create kayfabe, which is the system of stratified lies that professional wrestling is undergirded by.
01:03:13.000So, like, if two guys were pretending to fight, and there was, there's actually, there was an issue, I should, so just to lay this all out, in Japan, there's an extreme admiration for professional wrestling.
01:03:31.000Some of them would get into mixed martial arts and have fake fights Is this like Pride?
01:03:44.000And Pride actually was founded by Hickson Gracie, who was as legit as a man has ever lived, and Takata, who was a famous professional wrestler.
01:03:55.000And Hickson fucked up Takata in a real fight.
01:04:28.000He was involved in professional wrestling as well, but he was a legit fighter.
01:04:33.000Anyway, the point was there was a weird blurring of the lines.
01:04:38.000And there were some fights, like Mark Coleman had a fight with Takata, where it was really clear that Mark Coleman got paid to take a dive, because Mark Coleman should have smashed that dude.
01:04:47.000And he gets caught in his heel hook, and he doesn't tap, and he's gonna tap, then he winds up tapping, and everyone's like, whoa!
01:04:53.000But everyone watching that knows fighting was like, get the fuck out of here!
01:07:24.000And so the interesting thing is that you used to have this concept of a smark.
01:07:28.000A mark is somebody who doesn't know they're being conned.
01:07:31.000A smart mark or smark is somebody who knows that they're being conned and still continues to play.
01:07:37.000So in some sense, it was the bet that you could take all the marks and turn them into smarks and the business empire would continue and you wouldn't have to pay the tax.
01:07:45.000So I was hanging out as one does with Hulk Hogan and I was trying to check whether or not this was true and he said to me, Eric, you realize who came up with that strategy?
01:08:07.000Did you ever see the interview where John Stossel is accusing a professional wrestler of it being fake, so he decided to smack him in the head and ask him if that was fake?
01:08:15.000It's really horrific, because he dropped, he ruptured his eardrum.
01:11:14.000That part right there where he falls and he bangs his head off the ground, like, he just dropped him like he was on a padded mat or something like that.
01:11:23.000You really should never do that to someone.
01:11:26.000But they don't worry about their self because they put themselves into so much danger.
01:11:35.000And they're extremophiles in that sense.
01:11:37.000Now what my belief is is that we are – It's real in the sense that the injuries, the death rate, the skill levels, and most of those guys could really fight.
01:11:50.000They may not be UFC-level fighters, but a lot of them come out of wrestling backgrounds, like legitimate.
01:11:58.000A lot of them are very, very tough guys.
01:11:59.000So I think, what was it, in 2013 or 11, John Brockman asked the question, what's the scientific theory that nobody knows that would make the biggest impact in people's cognitive toolkit?
01:12:12.000And I'd just been allowed to answer this question along with like actual legitimate people.
01:12:16.000And so I was kind of like being very protective.
01:12:19.000And my wife said, you know, you could give a lot of answers to that question, but that's not the one you want to give.
01:12:26.000Like I had this theory that kayfabe was the most important psychological theory ever.
01:12:30.000That nobody really appreciated that in some sense professional wrestling is light years ahead and understanding how the human mind actually works because of the issues of that deception.
01:12:41.000And so I wrote up kayfabe which is going to determine wars and presidential elections and then sure enough Donald Trump comes directly out of WWE. Like he really understands.
01:12:51.000If you look at that fight with Vince McMahon.
01:13:15.000So I thought it was going to be thrown out.
01:13:17.000And in fact, that turned out to be a very prophetic essay.
01:13:21.000Well, for sure, once Trump got into office.
01:13:24.000I mean, that is an excellent point of what he does is that there's a part of his appeal is that he's speaking in...
01:13:32.000He's hitting a certain frequency that provides comfort and it narrows the boundaries of what's possible and puts things into some very digestible form that morons love.
01:14:02.000He's not going to say anything crazy that's self-deprecating or introspective or he's not going to prepare you for the great beyond or include you in his Concerns for the demise of civilization and Western values,
01:16:19.000I mean, I'm sure he switched it up a little bit because of the pandemic, because he's apparently a germaphobe, which is hilarious, that this could be his demise.
01:17:55.000She doesn't want body augmentation, so she's got a non-classical porn body.
01:18:02.000She chose to do a trans scene because it was erotically interesting to her, even though she was told that it would kill her brand.
01:18:14.000Sometimes she shaves her body hair, sometimes she doesn't.
01:18:18.000So there's a lot of what she does that I think is incredibly admirable.
01:18:24.000And I got to know of her because she came to a show that I did with Ben Shapiro and Sam Harris in San Francisco and she was tweeting out that she was a huge Sam Harris fan.
01:18:37.000And then I saw something she did where she was talking about it was impossible for her to get banking and regular services as a pornographic actress.
01:18:52.000Operation Choke Point was, I think, an Obama-era Department of Justice initiative to try to make it very difficult to engage in legal occupations like payday lending and things or porn.
01:19:07.000I think they used the FDIC to harass credit card companies and banks into not making it easy for these people to gain access to ordinary services.
01:19:19.000So I've been very concerned about the ways in which the authoritarians attempt to regulate who can do what, who can say what, say what, where, get banking.
01:19:44.000And then there's like chargeback issues where marginal businesses – People will cancel their credit cards, but in fact, if you're doing a business where very few people are canceling the credit cards, they'll still claim that they won't work with you because of the risk of cancellation.
01:20:00.000So there's this whole thing where we harass and tax.
01:20:37.000I believe that once upon a time, the San Fernando Valley was the head of prostitution, head of pornographic acting and movie production because it couldn't be charged as prosecution.
01:20:50.000Now, Ashley makes the point that she's comfortable being called a commercial sex worker.
01:20:55.000So in some sense, prostitution adjacent, but not prostitution.
01:20:59.000And to your question about how did that go?
01:21:02.000I was quite nervous about having a pornographic actress as a guest.
01:21:09.000I did it, in fact, right after Sir Roger Penrose.
01:21:12.000So it was one of the better transitions.
01:21:21.000I think it's important that we talk about porn.
01:21:23.000And I think it's important that if this is going to have a huge effect, like dark matter, you know, you feel its gravitational effect, but nobody can actually see it because we can't talk about it.
01:21:32.000I think that it's absolutely imperative that we make more connection to planet porn and talk about what's going on, what does it say about us, and the ways in which, you know, they've got great data, the way OkCupid has great data on what's going on in the world of courtship.
01:21:51.000Porn has great data on what's going on in the world of kink and eroticism.
01:21:57.000And for example, she pointed out that incest porn surges around the holidays when people are spending time with their families.
01:23:23.000That's an interesting one because you had a really good point in that people, when they hear that this is a Project Veritas thing and for people who don't know who he is, James O'Keefe from Project Veritas, they've done a lot of work exposing some biases that are held by some of the people that work in these social media groups,
01:23:44.000social media corporations like Twitter and Facebook and things like that.
01:23:48.000But the way they've done it is all through hidden camera type stuff.
01:23:51.000And there's a narrative that people love to use where they go, oh, that guy, he uses selective editing or that guy, you can't believe anything they say.
01:24:05.000Because you're listening to these people talking, and they're talking about how they marginalize right-wing viewpoints.
01:24:12.000They look for people who have, like, manga in their headline, and they put them in certain categories where it makes it very difficult for people to get their stuff.
01:24:21.000That the algorithm supports, you know, that they know how to marginalize these perspectives and these points of view.
01:24:32.000That no one, they've found this strange way of describing it, where even though you see it on video, you hear people say things that should be outrageous to anyone who believes in objective reality.
01:24:51.000And yet, people love to say, that's just a Project Veritas thing, that guy's full of shit.
01:24:58.000And they go, oh, he's full of shit, good.
01:25:53.000Amanda Fielding, Countess Amanda Fielding, is the head of the Beckley Foundation for the scientific study of psychedelic and related substances in the UK, who I think works with Imperial College.
01:27:19.000The belief that she had was that her brain – your brain expands to fill your brain case and that when it runs into a hard stop, That the blood circulation has changed and that when the blood circulation changes, you lose that sparkling clarity that comes from your sort of childhood.
01:27:37.000And so if you remember how clear the world was when you were a kid, her belief was by relieving the pressure from the brain case that you actually get a kind of permanent upgrade in your cognition and the level at which you're experiencing all of reality.
01:29:38.000At a physiological rather than at a software level, it seems to be incredibly well-tolerated because it's the only thing that has this effect in such tiny trace amounts.
01:29:51.000And so she changed my mind where I realized that I'd been thoroughly propagandized and that I had never examined my beliefs around these chemicals.
01:30:02.000And that, in fact, many of the most powerful appear to be very well-tolerated.
01:30:30.000She had a pet bird called Birdie, and she built a mausoleum to her pet bird in the form of some sort of a conical earth outcropping that in order to reach it, I think you have to Walk over Doric columns that cross,
01:30:51.000like, you know, these old columns from Greek temples.
01:30:56.000And so the tops of them form steps across a moat, and it's guarded by attack swans.
01:31:02.000You can take nothing at all psychoactive, and then you're visiting this woman, visiting her bird's mausoleum, being attacked by swans, walking over Greek columns to cross a moat.
01:31:22.000I mean, I don't think there's any real science to relieving pressure by drilling a fucking hole in your head.
01:31:27.000I think you're just relieved by the fact that you've taken this really radical step outside the norm and decided you're going to be the person who drills a fucking hole in your head.
01:33:09.000I think he can't come to the United States, and I'm very angry about that.
01:33:12.000And I'll tell you another one that I'm really angry about is Alex Green, the CEO of Symmetry Labs, Do you want to bring up the tree of Tenere, T-E-N-E-R-E, from Burning Man?
01:34:19.000Yeah, but like I want you to think about – and there are much better videos than this where these giant waves and things go through.
01:34:26.000The people who are bringing transcendence and grace and beauty to our lives when they're hounded because of like what language they've used – Things like self-experimentation, advocacy for psychedelics.
01:34:43.000It's very important that we have rule breakers, mavericks, people that you might call crazy or lunatics, and that we be very gentle and celebratory.
01:35:35.000This guy's a genius CEO of a beautiful mathematical art company and I just feel so powerless to figure out how to move people along.
01:35:49.000Was he targeted or did he just fuck up and try to buy a large number of it, a large quantity of it so that he didn't have to go out and get it?
01:35:57.000I imagine that he was involved in some – I don't know the specifics of his plea and I don't want to say anything that could screw him up.
01:36:05.000But I imagine that the issue was something to do with a large cannabis business.
01:36:12.000Okay, so he had some sort of distribution business in New York State.
01:36:15.000I'm not opining that he didn't break the law, but I also think at some level when you go back – I mean when you see cannabis being advertised everywhere and you grew up in a world in which like only bad people did that, it's pretty infuriating.
01:37:11.000With Chappelle, he's giving me cigarettes, and Tony Hinchcliffe, he's giving me cigarettes before shows, and I've smoked a cigarette, and then I've gone on stage, and it's like, you're on a drug.
01:37:21.000It's a cognitive-enhancing drug, by the way.
01:38:07.000In that adjusting of your normal perceptions, that's where these new ideas come in.
01:38:15.000That's where these new, it's almost like you get a little chance to pop your head off the top of the clouds and look around and go, oh, this is not what I think it is.
01:38:25.000I got really high the other day and I made a post on Instagram about Joe Exotic and Donald Trump and then this thing.
01:38:36.000And I was saying, here's what's weird.
01:38:39.000The thing that keeps coming to me when I get high is not...
01:38:44.000It's the idea that one day things are going to get back to normal.
01:38:48.000And the idea is that there never really was a normal.
01:38:51.000That it was just an attractive illusion.
01:38:53.000And that it's a comforting and attractive illusion.
01:38:56.000And I used a photo of Joe Exotic in one of Donald Trump's most ridiculous tweets where he was talking about the coronavirus and how he's a huge hit.
01:40:19.000This is Donald Trump, the President of the United States, makes a self-congratulatory tweet that his talking about a pandemic virus that could potentially kill as many as 200,000 Americans.
01:40:44.000But me, as a high person in the valley, sitting on my back porch while my kids are asleep, looking at this tweet, I'm like, I don't even think there is a normal.
01:41:03.000That's one of the things that I love about nature.
01:41:06.000You know, we were watching a video yesterday of an owl eating the head off of a hawk because I was explaining there was sort of a hawk war that went on in my backyard at one point in time.
01:41:17.000These owls killed these hawks and I would find these headless hawks.
01:41:21.000Like, owls are mean motherfuckers, man.
01:44:28.000The only way that a female can bear young is if a male attacks her thorax and breaks it open in an act which is definitely called traumatic insemination.
01:44:41.000So, you know, you have a situation in which violent rape is the only method by which females can leave young.
01:44:50.000So what they do to you when you stay in a hotel is just child's play compared to what they do to each other.
01:44:55.000I mean, my point is, if you want to talk about eradicating bedbugs with DDT, I'm all for it.
01:44:59.000They are the feminists' worst nightmare species.
01:45:06.000You and I talk about the natural world.
01:45:22.000Anyway, we had them under control, I believe, due to DDT. But on my list of 10 nightmare species, bedbugs and flatworms for the twin traumatic inseminations would be way up at the top.
01:46:10.000There's a different system, which I think is fascinating, which is there's a conserved quantity In dung beetles, where they have weaponry on their heads in the form of antlers for fighting the males.
01:46:25.000And it turns out that there's an inverse relationship.
01:46:28.000So there's some resource that's allocated between the copulatory equipment and the...
01:47:12.000Anyway, so what happens is that the size of the copulatory apparatus may be the engine of speciation, that when a male's equipment no longer fits the female, that may be the cue that some dung beetles will speciate because they can't reproduce effectively.
01:47:33.000And we don't know why The conserved quantity would be spread between fighting equipment, which is used only to displace rivals, and the size of the package.
01:47:45.000When I went on a tour of the Vatican, I had a really great guide.
01:48:40.000And that they would make them like that on purpose.
01:48:44.000They were all, they all had little dicks, all of them.
01:48:47.000And I'm like, these guys, like, if you looked at these guys, like, just the way they're built, the reality is most of them would have hogs, right?
01:48:56.000These are heavily muscled, thick men with a lot of testosterone.
01:49:02.000They would have big dicks, most likely.
01:49:04.000That's the reason why women find that build attractive, probably, other than the fact that it's going to be the person who'd be more successful at protecting you from said barbarians.
01:50:33.000This is one of the Michael Jackson stories that I was promoting before it actually was confirmed by his doctor.
01:50:40.000The doctor that wound up killing him and went to jail.
01:50:43.000I was like, the way that guy sings, because I was aware of Castrati's, I'm like, he sounds like one of them.
01:50:49.000He sounds like he has this permanent female voice.
01:50:52.000Well, the doctor that went to jail for sedating him when he wound up dying, Dr. Jackson, whatever the guy's name was, that guy confirmed that Michael Jackson was chemically castrated by his father to preserve his voice.
01:51:07.000And they did it to him at a young age.
01:54:00.000And when Casanova fell in love with a castrato who conveniently turned out to be a woman in drag, he asked her to dress as a castrato in bed.
01:54:11.000For those women who choose, as Dryden put it...
01:54:16.000To, in quotes, in soft eunuchs place their bliss and shun the scrubbing of a bearded kiss.
01:54:25.000Yeah, they wanted someone who eats a lot of pussy.
01:54:27.000Affairs were idolized and safe, but bed-hopping could be risky for the castrati.
01:54:33.000One was assassinated by his lover's furious family, and another who wrote to the Pope requesting permission to marry on the basis of that his castration had been ineffective.
01:54:45.000Received the reply, let him be castrated better.
01:54:49.000The Pope said, no, you can't get married.
01:58:23.000But the amount of practice and how you would practice something like this, the real thing that would be insane to practice is that jump off the top into the split.
01:58:33.000Man, it's athleticism, artistry, timing, and, you know, this is also...
01:59:27.000You know what I love about this program, Joe, is that I get to take stuff like this and blow it out to people at, like, millions at a time.
01:59:33.000Oh, well, that's what I love about having you on.
01:59:35.000I would love to learn something about this.
01:59:53.000Right, and if you want to think about partnerships between men and women and the way in power is passed back and forth between people of equal ability, it's just astounding.
02:00:02.000Well, yeah, I mean, there's no one person who is the head of this.
02:00:07.000But, like, he's throwing her around the room and then she's throwing him around the room.
02:00:16.000Oh, my God, that's incredible that they can do that.
02:00:20.000Wow, that's one of the more amazing things about computer technology, like the footage that they did with World War I, where they took some of that footage and colorized it and smoothed it out and used computers to sort of fill in the choppiness of it.
02:02:44.000If you listen to episode 19, which is the Brett episode, I think that's been the most important one except for the one released today.
02:02:57.000That sounds like you're gearing me up for the one released today.
02:02:59.000Well, I would start with the Brett one.
02:03:02.000And what's so important about the Brett one?
02:03:03.000The Brett one is a story about his prediction that all the laboratory mice that we use from the major supplier, which is the Jackson Laboratory in Bar Harbor, Maine, may have been compromised by their breeding protocols,
02:03:19.000which allowed the telomeres to radically elongate.
02:03:23.000And that we thought that these mice were representative of all mice and that they had radically elongated telomeres at the end of their chromosomes, which appear to mediate the level of mitosis that can happen during histological repair.
02:03:37.000So if you imagine that your cells can divide a certain number of times, if there isn't a counter That stops the number of divisions.
02:03:48.000And since you have like 30 trillion or 100 trillion cells in your body, it means every cell almost can kill you.
02:03:55.000So it appears that the reason we may die from senescence, that is aging, is that that's our anti-cancer mechanism.
02:04:04.000So if you eliminate like infectious disease, like viruses and insult from being hit by a car, The two things that you have in the end is either you die from immortality, which is cancer, where cells can divide an infinite number of times,
02:04:20.000or you die from the recursion limit, which is how many times the cell can divide, called in biology the Hayflick limit.
02:04:28.000And Brett predicted from first principles that what we thought about mice, which is that they have radically elongated telomeres, was only true for laboratory animals because all the laboratory animals in which we test things like drugs have been broken.
02:04:41.000They've been broken because of selective breeding?
02:04:44.000Yep, because the breeding rotations privileged much younger mice and removed all sort of threats from the environment.
02:04:53.000And so because telomeres are not protein coding, they're sequences of nucleotides that repeat as a counter rather than coding for a translation in the ribosome into amino acid sequences.
02:05:07.000What you have is that the body can mutate, if you will, to use the Jackson Laboratories concept of this, very rapidly.
02:05:18.000Because it's not building something structural.
02:05:20.000It's just a question of, do we have 17 on the end or 170 on the end?
02:05:25.000Because it's acting, nucleic acid has multiple ways in which it can participate in regulating the body's responses.
02:05:35.000So in fact, the breeding protocols constituted a novel system of selective pressures that destroyed the efficacy of all of our laboratory animals, potentially.
02:05:46.000So he predicted from first principles, he said, I bet if you test wild type mice rather than laboratory mice, you'll find that their telomeres are not long as you believe.
02:05:56.000And this was actually carried out by Carol Greider, who did not acknowledge the prediction.
02:06:03.000She didn't acknowledge the prediction.
02:07:44.000I mean, this episode, which is almost impossible to listen to, because at the beginning of the episode, I'm absolutely insufferable to Brett, because he won't tell the story.
02:07:53.000He's afraid to tell his own life story.
02:07:59.000Because in academics, the idea of some punk kid alleging that they predicted in a telephone call to a Nobel laureate that if they would test wild-type mice, the telomeres would be radically shorter than the elongated telomeres of the laboratory tests.
02:08:19.000And then the person refuses to acknowledge That such a prediction was made, even though we have emails from the lab that— Trevor Burrus So she refuses to acknowledge it or she doesn't acknowledge it?
02:08:32.000I cannot find a single—I've been over the literature.
02:08:35.000There is no mention anywhere of—and I live this with Brett in real time, so I know the events were happening.
02:08:44.000We have communications with that lab since.
02:08:51.000I cannot find any acknowledgement from the Johns Hopkins University Laboratory that this interaction ever took place.
02:09:00.000And that because he called and wrote and did not write an email, he did not have a paper trail of that prediction.
02:09:07.000Now there's consequential emails that show the interaction between the labs.
02:09:14.000But how many times have you ever heard anyone predict a molecular result from first principles in evolutionary theory?
02:09:22.000This is what Brett was supposed to be famous for.
02:09:24.000And then, you know, he became like this obscure professor at some ridiculous college and then this thing happened to him.
02:10:15.000But it puts the question out how much research is compromised by the laboratory breeding protocols and breeding rotations from a single point of failure at the Jackson Laboratories in Bar Harbor, Maine.
02:11:02.000It's a result and a story that needs to be told.
02:11:05.000If there is another side of the story, we need to hear the other side of the story.
02:11:10.000And my goal is to have Carol Greider say, you know what?
02:11:14.000This interaction did happen and I probably could have handled this better because she has work that she's done, which is beyond question, some of the most important work that has nothing to do with anything Brett has done.
02:11:26.000But it does not give that laboratory the scientific right to deny the existence of this interaction, the importance of the interaction.
02:11:37.000And because there are potential downstream consequences in pharmaceuticals, we need to have an answer, and every answer is interesting.
02:11:44.000If the laboratory mice having radically elongated telomeres is not a problem in some way, that's fascinating.
02:11:52.000How could you have an animal that has this huge adaptation to the laboratory not affect things?
02:12:29.000You'll be able to take the insult that comes from this.
02:12:32.000And so these mice are probably preternaturally disposed towards radical histological repair.
02:12:38.000That's why they remain youthful and young.
02:12:40.000And if you test something that might be, you know, if you're doing toxicology studies, it could be that the telomeres, even though you're not testing the telomeres, What you're actually doing is picking up that these broken mice are like the world champs of repair, but they suck at cancer.
02:13:13.000So think about it as the theory of death and clear away all of the noise.
02:13:18.000There are two ways that nature can't figure out and escape from.
02:13:21.000Either you die of immortality, which is that all your cells want to live forever, and that's a huge danger.
02:13:31.000Or we call it a resource leak in computers.
02:13:34.000Or they die because the only thing nature can figure out to do is to say you only get a finite number of cell divisions up front.
02:13:43.000Now, there's some adjustments to the theory, but if you look at the moles on my face, which people love to comment on in the comment section, they probably started as a runaway replicative process that arrested at the border of the mole in order to keep it from killing me.
02:14:04.000So we have cells that go rogue all the time.
02:14:07.000But then what happens is that there's some means of making sure that the process doesn't take down the entire organism.
02:14:15.000But think about 30 trillion assassins as the cells in your body, all of which might kill you at any moment.
02:16:26.000So the best hope that I can come up with, and it's a slim one, is that if we could figure out what goes beyond Einstein's theory, the Einsteinian speed limit might be bendable or breakable because we would be in a framework that was larger than Einstein's.
02:16:42.000People often interpret this as what they call FTL or faster than light travel.
02:16:46.000But that's not what I mean necessarily.
02:16:48.000What I mean is that the underlying source code gives us opportunities that we don't normally have.
02:16:55.000Seven years ago, I tried giving these lectures at Oxford, which is probably the university that is spiritually closest to what I care about, because they care about geometry and physics, and they enter a relationship.
02:17:07.000They've kept the faith with that tradition through people like Roger Penrose and Michael Atiyah.
02:17:15.000And I released this theory of geometric unity, or rather I released the video of the lecture that introduces this theory.
02:17:25.000So this was the first time since 1980 And it's the video of you giving this discussion.
02:17:50.000So it's introduced by Professor Marcus de Sotoy, who has Richard Dawkins' old job as the Simone Professor for the Public Understanding of Science.
02:17:59.000And he met me in a bar, and he got me a little drunk, and he said, okay, what are you really working on?
02:18:06.000And at first it sounded crazy, and then he started thinking about it.
02:18:10.000And he asked me more questions and he brought me over to Oxford.
02:18:14.000He got me an appointment, had me talk to their experts.
02:18:16.000And then he decided that he wanted me to give these what he called special Simone lectures.
02:18:21.000And they are an attempt to go beyond Einstein to look for a unified theory of physics between the two major branches that have resisted unification.
02:18:45.000It's a political program that comes out of what would have been the quantum field theory community before it became the string theory community.
02:18:51.000The idea is we have to take Einstein and make him submit to the will of Bohr.
02:18:56.000And I don't think it's exactly like that.
02:18:59.000I think they got it wildly wrong and they synchronized themselves and sort of took the field off the cliff and they weren't able to ship a product they couldn't deliver on any of this promise.
02:19:09.000And so when I saw that they were about to go off a cliff, I switched fields as an undergraduate into mathematics and used mathematics as a stalking horse to study the same sort of underlying structures but not to get swept up in the politics of physics.
02:19:24.000And I had this theory, which I can now talk about for the first time in like 37 years or whatever it is.
02:19:31.000And like today is the first day that I'm sort of free because I've kept this to myself.
02:19:36.000So if you want to ask me any question about geometric unity...
02:20:54.000It's why is there so much that is rich out of almost nothing?
02:21:01.000And so this issue shows that if you had a piece of paper, could you will into being something The hands holding pens using ink to draw each other, right?
02:21:14.000That problem is akin to the problem that we face in a fundamental theory.
02:21:19.000If you had the canvas, how would the canvas bring all of the richness that you see around you into being?
02:21:26.000And what I did was I said, okay, we have to go below Einstein.
02:21:30.000So we have four degrees of freedom, but they're not yet space and time.
02:21:58.000Okay, we've got four objects here, right?
02:22:04.000So the four degrees of freedom correspond to the four objects.
02:22:06.000Then we need a ruler to measure how much of each of these four objects we have.
02:22:11.000So that would be four additional variables.
02:22:14.000And then you have angles, because length and angle is what Einstein gave us in space-time.
02:22:18.000So the angles between any two objects are the same as the reverse of the angle.
02:22:22.000So then you can count it up and there are six angles to be had.
02:22:25.000So there's four degrees of freedom, plus four rulers, plus six protractors, which is 14. So there's a 14-dimensional auxiliary space.
02:22:35.000And in my estimation, you and I are in some ways potentially having this conversation in a 14-dimensional world that we perceive back in the stands rather than on the pitch as a four-dimensional conversation.
02:22:49.000That is, we are in a three-dimensional room going forward in time.
02:23:04.000Because I'm saying that the fields, that is the stuff, is dancing not mostly on the four dimensions that we think we perceive, but it's also dancing on the rulers and the protractors.
02:23:18.000So in other words, if I have X, Y, and Z, I need rulers in the X direction, the Y direction, the Z to measure things, and I need a watch, which would be like a ruler in the time direction.
02:23:29.000So those four rulers are in fact in play as well.
02:23:33.000And the protractors, because like space-time is four degrees of freedom plus rulers and protractors, I'm saying work over the space of all rulers and all protractors as part of where these particles and fields can dance.
02:23:48.000So the rulers and the protractors are part of the system, not just a choice of particular rulers and particular protractors.
02:23:55.000So by choosing particular rulers and particular protractors, Einstein is grabbing a tiny filament of the space of all possible rulers and protractors.
02:24:06.000So in effect, spacetime is recovered as the act of the observer contemplating itself.
02:24:12.000It's a little bit poetic, but I mean that the choice of a spacetime metric inside of the space of all metrics It's a section of a 14-dimensional bundle over a four-dimensional space.
02:24:23.000Now, that's the first sort of mind-bending weird thing is that this is not happening in one place.
02:24:30.000In X and in Y, the stands and the pitch.
02:24:34.000There are things that are happening in the stands and there are things that are happening in the pitch.
02:24:38.000So you know when a guy is trying to make a free throw and everybody is waving their giant noodles trying to get him to miss?
02:24:44.000There's an interaction between what's happening in the stands and what's happening on the floor.
02:24:49.000And the Obserververse is the bundling of two spaces and saying, hey, you're confused as to what's going on here.
02:24:58.000Some fields are happening in the stands, some fields are happening on the floor, and everything feels as if it's happening in the stands because that's where you're sitting in some weird way.
02:25:07.000Then you've got this really crazy stuff, which I think one aspect of it is everybody in theoretical physics is looking to figure out whether there are three or more generations that is copies of matter.
02:25:21.000Everything in this room is generation one.
02:25:23.000It's all made up of up quarks, down quarks and electrons.
02:25:26.000So that up quarks and down quarks give you protons and neutrons and electrons give you the sort of interesting personality of the various chemical elements.
02:25:35.000There are also neutrinos, but they're streaming through us, so I'm not going to count them.
02:25:39.000And that's all generation one of matter.
02:25:42.000So everything in that, think of that as like plastic Lego.
02:25:45.000Then there's another Lego set made out of wood.
02:25:48.000And then there's another Lego set made out of lead.
02:25:52.000And we don't see those other two Lego sets, except if we're doing very energetic experiments.
02:25:58.000So there were three copies of matter, and everybody was trying to figure out three or more, and I thought maybe it's two or fewer.
02:26:05.000And so one of the aspects of this theory is that the third generation of matter is an imposter.
02:26:28.000Which is not prohibited, but has never been seen as a fundamental.
02:26:32.000So it makes predictions for the particle properties of new spin-half and new spin-three-half particles.
02:26:39.000It attempts to say that there are sectors of matter that I think decoupled, that the universe is not in fact left-right asymmetric, which would be called chirality.
02:26:50.000And if you think about the weak force, so if you have a neutron on a table, it'll decay in I think something like 17 minutes on average, half-life.
02:27:00.000When it decays, there's an asymmetry in that decay called beta decay.
02:27:05.000And that was found by a woman, bring up Madame Wu from Columbia and the Cobalt-60 experiment.
02:27:13.000So in the 50s, this gal, Madame Wu, Who should have won a Nobel Prize, discovered that when cobalt-60 decays through beta decay, the electrons come spin out one side and not the other, meaning that the universe is like Marilyn Monroe or Cindy Crawford having a birthmark that lets you tell the left from the right.
02:27:35.000So this is like the ultimate experimental badass who never got recognized fully.
02:27:41.000And she did an experiment based on work of Yang and Li That for the first time showed that the universe had a preference of one of its left over its right, if you will.
02:27:52.000I don't believe that preference is fundamental.
02:27:54.000I believe that there's another copy of matter that...
02:27:59.000So the analogy I give is that if you think...
02:28:01.000If you look at your three fingers in the center of your hand, your middle finger, which is my favorite, is obviously symmetrical about itself.
02:28:09.000Your digit ratio two and four is pretty close, but is determined by the amount of testosterone you're exposed to in utero.
02:28:36.000So when you place your fingertips together, you see that if you didn't know, if you were like Oliver Sacks out, and you could only see part of your body, you'd think about, oh, the world is asymmetric.
02:28:47.000Well, my belief is that in weak gravitational situations, this other matter decouples.
02:28:52.000So you only see one hand or the other, and we're all in one-handedness.
02:28:58.000So what I'm starting to do is that I'm terrified Of talking about this stuff.
02:29:06.000I don't have the right credentials, not a physicist.
02:29:08.000I've been out of this game for forever, so I often say the wrong things and break rules and who knows what.
02:30:58.000I was somewhat holding this back because I'm afraid of what it unlocks.
02:31:03.000And now that I know that we're willing to elect Donald Trump, not store masks, play footsie with China, be Putin's bitch, all of this stuff...
02:31:16.000We're going to mismanage this planet into Armageddon if we don't get some grown-ups into the room.
02:31:21.000And so I don't know that I'm a grown-up, but I'm willing to vie for leadership by putting something up, having it investigated and seeing where it goes.
02:31:30.000What is your number one fear about this source code being, for lack of a better term, mastered?
02:31:37.000Well, the last time we gained some serious insight into the way nuclei worked, that with a little bit of geometry from Stanislaw Ulam and Edward Teller gave us the namesake of the bikini.
02:34:28.000It's too easy to destroy things relative to building them.
02:34:31.000Do you think that when we're looking at the failure of leadership on the scale that we're seeing play out because of this pandemic, that this is indicative of how it would go no matter what went wrong?
02:34:44.000If this was an issue of forest fires, if it was an issue of climate destruction, if this was an issue- Volcanoes, hurricanes, nuclear war, same thing.
02:35:18.000Like, we're wildly overdue for a Vesuvius eruption.
02:35:23.000And then when Ikefelikul erupted in Iceland, like, we hadn't realized that the era of jet travel in the developed world had happened during an incredibly quiet period of volcanic activity.
02:35:37.000So did we build any kind of volcanic sensitivity into these planes?
02:35:46.000And there's a volcano not so far from Ikefelikul called Ketla.
02:35:52.000Makes Ikefelikul look like a child's play.
02:35:57.000So you have to look at the Big Nap as the greatest danger To all of us.
02:36:04.000And this point about being Jewish is that, you know, to be really Jewish, Ben Shapiro makes a point which is not very popular, which is a lot of people call themselves Jews aren't actually Jews.
02:36:19.000People who can't figure out why they're keeping these traditions up, they sort of like to go three days a year, mumble a few words.
02:36:25.000There's something intrinsically Jewish about wanting gold bars someplace where you can grab them, you know, knowing where the exits are on a building.
02:36:35.000Like, you have to be prepared because the problem of anti-Semitism to leave at a moment's notice.
02:36:43.000And many of us have forgotten because we've gotten soft in a world with, you know, knock wood, anti-Semitism, while prevalent, has been under control in the U.S. for a long time.
02:36:55.000And I think we've weirdly become denatured Because we haven't been living with open antisemitism.
02:37:03.000You see it crop up in the comments section of every video.
02:37:06.000But it's incredibly important to stay in a state of readiness.
02:37:12.000And I've tried to keep that story about Passover and the exodus into Israel from what Jews call Mitzrayim, which means the narrow places, or Egypt.
02:37:23.000So my contention is the Jews had a great run In Egypt.
02:37:29.000And we are all the Jews and earth is Mitzrayim.
02:37:52.000But if we're running a million different experiments, it's different than if we're running one correlated experiment with Donald Trump at the helm of the most dangerous machine ever created in the world.
02:38:23.000So the simplest way of saying it is no one younger than Frank Wilczek, who was born in 1951, has gone to Stockholm for a discovery in theoretical fundamental physics made since like 1973. Physics effectively,
02:38:47.000the prestige part of physics came to an end in the early 70s when everything changed across the board.
02:38:53.000We had a broad economic change in our world.
02:38:57.000Jamie, do you want to bring up GDP versus median male income?
02:39:03.000Something bizarre happened in the early 1970s that we should all be talking about that almost nobody knows about.
02:39:09.000And one of the things that happened was that physics effectively came to an end.
02:40:23.000But in general, in an average room, if you subtract off the screens, you can't definitely tell that that room didn't exist in 1973. Because we stopped growing, we got crazy because everything was built on growth.
02:40:37.000Everything was a scheme that became a Ponzi scheme when growth ran out.
02:40:42.000So we've sort of been hollowing ourselves out from that time and getting crazier and farther away from reality.
02:40:48.000And we have to actually figure out where we are.
02:40:51.000And my belief was that our economy was almost completely created by theoretical physics.
02:40:59.000Theoretical physics underlies chemistry, so the chemical revolutions like plastics from the graduate.
02:41:05.000It gave us the semiconductor from which we do our computing.
02:41:10.000It gave us the World Wide Web, which came out of CERN. It gave us telecommunications, which use the electromagnetic spectrum.
02:41:17.000It gives us medical imaging from tomography.
02:41:20.000We don't really appreciate that theoretical physics has been the great success story of our time.
02:41:25.000And the theoretical physics community is the intellectual SEAL Team 6 of the world.
02:41:43.000They're not fair and decent because there's not enough resources.
02:41:46.000And so when resources get scarce, people become psychopathic.
02:41:49.000And like string theory is just an utter failure that we can't discuss because the baby boomers use that as, well, we're making huge progress while they're actually doing nothing.
02:41:59.000I mean, I don't want to say they're doing nothing.
02:42:02.000They weren't making contact with physics.
02:42:04.000They became mathematicians, like a bunch of soldiers and generals who were playing war games during peacetime.
02:42:12.000It's related to what they're supposed to be doing, but there was nothing for them to do.
02:42:16.000So they sort of went to the gym and ran on a treadmill rather than actually running marathons.
02:42:22.000So we have a terrible situation in that the community that powered our economy and gave us this incredible power in the world through like nuclear weapons and the rad lab at MIT and whatnot has gone into decline.
02:42:37.000And it's very dangerous to restart theoretical physics.
02:42:40.000So it's been safe because there's been nothing new that we can use coming out of it.
02:42:45.000My belief now is that we have to talk about a thousand-year solution to human life with weaponized viruses, with weaponized nuclei.
02:42:57.000I mean, the amount of damage we can do is astounding.
02:43:02.000And that's going to restart at some point since the nap is now coming to an end.
02:44:54.000Well, you and I are seeing each other Through photons.
02:44:59.000Photons are scattering off us and being perceived by our eyes.
02:45:03.000Photons are associated with electromagnetism.
02:45:05.000And there is actually a circle at every point in spacetime.
02:45:10.000So here we are in space, my fingers are up here between us, and I'm going to snap at a particular instant.
02:45:16.000At that point of the snap, there was a circle, as there is a point, a circle at every other point in spacetime that we do not perceive, that generates all of electromagnetism.
02:45:27.000So call this the mysterious U1. We don't know where this U1 comes from.
02:45:32.000Why is there a hidden circle that generates the electromagnetism that you and I use to make visual contact that we use to send electronic signals like our Wi-Fi?
02:45:44.000Not only is there a circle, there's also a three-dimensional object called SU2 and an eight-dimensional object called SU3. And effectively, SU2 generates the weak force.
02:45:59.000And SU3 generates the strong force, which is sort of on the nose, which is why the protons in your body don't all push apart given that they're positively charged and like charges repel.
02:46:11.000That's the strong force and it comes out of something called SU3. We have two origin stories.
02:46:18.000One origin story is the story of space and time.
02:46:20.000The other origin story is the story of SU3 cross SU2 cross U1. And what I did was to get rid of the freedom to choose the symmetries that generate the personalities of the particles that make up this place.
02:46:35.000And then the question is, okay, I called it the magic beans trade.
02:46:39.000Because if you think about Jack and the beanstalk, Jack gives away the family cow to get beans, which seems like the worst trade of all time.
02:46:47.000But the beans actually had much more in them Then was understood.
02:46:52.000And so Jack gets the better of the trade because the beans allow him to do something crazy.
02:47:15.000So the idea is that I generated the fermions On top of the space of all rulers and protractors on top of the four dimensions.
02:47:24.000And the natural object, which would be called spinners or chimeric spinners, when perceived on the four-dimensional object, that is when you pull back the information from the second world that got created into the first, from the pitch into the stands.
02:47:41.000The particle properties appear to be more or less the right particle properties of the particles that we see.
02:47:47.000Now when I started this in the early 80s, we didn't know that neutrinos had mass.
02:47:51.000And so we thought that there might be only 15 particles in a generation.
02:47:55.000And my stuff would only work if the number of particles in a generation was 2 to the n.
02:48:00.000So the joke when I was in college was, I sure hope that 2 to the 4th equals 15. Now it can't be, because 2 to the 4th is 16. But then luckily for me, nutrients were found to have mass and that sort of changed the probability that there are 16 particles.
02:48:17.000So this is some weird thing to deal with the fundamental incompatibility of the two theories, general relativity of Einstein and quantum theory of Bohr and Dirac.
02:48:31.000In the 70s, we found out that there was a geometry that governed the Bohr-Durak part of the world, called Erismanian geometry, from Charles Erisman Analyzation.
02:48:45.000And Einstein had used Bernard Riemann, a German mathematician, his geometries.
02:48:50.000So my gambit, and why it's called geometric unity, is that the two branches of physics Are derived from two geometries.
02:48:59.000So rather than saying it's about quantizing geometry, which is the quantum field theory imperialist perspective, Einstein must submit to Bohr, the real issue is that there's a fight between the parents, that is, Bernard Riemann and Charles Erismann.
02:49:14.000Now, we don't know those names nearly as well.
02:49:16.000And so my goal was to say, is there any world in which these two geometries and the advantages of these two geometries could be made to play together?
02:49:26.000But there is one case in which it works, which is this issue of natural spinners.
02:49:32.000And so the whole gambit was to say, what if the world is not a generic world, but a very natural and peculiar world where certain games work that would not work in a generic situation?
02:49:46.000So what I tried to do is to recover Einstein the way Einstein tried to recover Newton from a more fundamental theory and the incompatibility Is that Einstein had to compress something called the full Riemann curvature tensor, which is the sort of measure of how warped something is.
02:50:03.000So he broke that beast that tells you the warping of something into pieces.
02:50:09.000He threw one of them out called the vial curvature, and then he adjusted the properties of the other two that were left to create general relativity.
02:50:16.000So my thing does that, but it also has another property called gauge invariance.
02:50:22.000Engage in variance is the sine qua non of the particle theory.
02:50:26.000And this is only possible in very limited circumstances.
02:50:29.000And the gambit was, what if the world is in that tiny class where this game can work?
02:50:34.000So it's sort of a career suicide theory, because if it doesn't work this way, you don't really get anything in the end.
02:50:41.000So, you know, think about that exhaust vent in the Death Star.
02:50:53.000By releasing this with this discussion, this video that you're putting out, are you hoping that more people examine it and try to actually implement it and then ultimately this would be something that allows people to do what?
02:55:55.000This is a picture of a fiber bundle and the path-lifting property relative to a connection.
02:56:00.000So those floating planes, that was what generates electromagnetism called horizontal subspaces.
02:56:07.000And you're actually looking at a gauge theory in that picture.
02:56:10.000And so what you're saying is that what's valuable about the artists getting on board with this is that they can make a visual interpretation of this that can be...
02:57:55.000I just love that you're just a curious person that actually wants to communicate with people, on top of being this space man.
02:58:03.000So, for example, we have this graph wall tome project where we start off with this paragraph from Ed Witten.
02:58:09.000If you go down, you'll see that they're figuring out how the paragraph from Ed Witten fails over into this wall that was chiseled in Indiana limestone in Stony Brook, New York, which has all of these below that.
02:58:27.000So that's the paragraph that tries to sum up the universe as we understood it in the modern era in prose.
02:58:36.000And then if you go down from that, There's this plan, right?
02:58:40.000Yeah, there's a clickable thing underneath that graphic.
02:58:44.000So, for example, this is the plan for this sculpture that Jim Simons, the world's greatest hedge fund manager, paid for.
02:58:51.000And if you click on any one of these things, these ruins, so it's like the uncertainty, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, my people are digesting everything that we say, everything that we point to, And helping each other understand what goes on in my program so that I don't have to spend all the time in the shallow end.
02:59:43.000I really think that what you're showing, that is a branch of what humanity is trying to do with creativity, with curiosity, with the thirst for innovation.
03:00:09.000This is the funny thing about sponsorship.
03:00:11.000You see, my grandfather was a salesman.
03:00:13.000And so in a weird way, I'm living a romantic dream of connecting to my grandfather who sold, like, used clothing and clothing door to door.
03:01:06.000I'm going to watch it twice, and I'm going to try to figure it out.
03:01:08.000Hey, and Joe, at some point, let's just hang out, and I'd love to just show you exactly what it is tailor-made to whatever questions without any worry about...