In this episode, I sit down with the owner of APL Steakhouse in Los Angeles to talk about what it's like to be a small business owner in the wake of the devastating 9/11 attacks and the impact on the local restaurant scene. We talk about how he managed to keep his restaurant open and what he's been up to since then. We also talk about the impact of the attacks and how he s been able to continue to cook for first responders and other first responders in the aftermath of the tragedy. I hope you enjoy this episode and that it gives you a little bit of perspective on what's going on in the restaurant industry at this moment in history. I know that this is a tough time in our industry and it's going to take a lot of resilience to get through it all. Thank you to our sponsor, St. Joseph's Center for supporting our efforts to provide meals to the front line responders in our local hospitals and first responders. We can't wait to do more to help those closest to us in need. Thank you so much St. Joseph s Center for all the support you've shown so far, thank you for all your support, and thank you to everyone else who has been working so hard to make a difference in our community. We're here for all of the support. We appreciate all the love, support, support and prayers. We'll see you next week! and we'll get back to you soon. . Cheers. -Jon Sorrental Jon Sorrentino - Jon & Ben Bergman . . . Jon Bergman ( ) Jimmy Kimmel ( ) Jon Bergmann ( ) Jimmy Kimmel( ) Jon Bergerson ( Jonathan Kimmel ( ) Ben Kavous ( Jon Taffer ( Ben Gottschalk ( , Ben Kovins ( . ) ) Jon Ochs ( & Ben Kamb ( ) . . ( ) Ben Koppel ( ) Thank you for the support we've been so much love and support from the community and support and support you all ( ) and all the work you've all done so much support you can do. Jon's support is so much more! Jon talks about all of our support and all of your support and so much thank you all of his support & so much so much of the good vibes and love you all will be appreciated!
00:01:54.000Yeah, it's in the heart of Hollywood, Hollywood and Vine, and it's right next to the Pentages Theater, which we, and what's ironic was, it was literally, when they closed down all the restaurants, it was going to be the night of Hamilton premiering, which was a big deal for us as a business, and, you know,
00:02:32.000And one of the things that we've talked about a lot on this podcast is what's so devastating about this is there's a lot of people that have lost businesses in the past because markets changed and because maybe they didn't do what they could have done or work as hard as they could have worked.
00:02:47.000But for so many small businesses and restaurants and bars, they've been doing the best work they've ever been able to do.
00:02:53.000They're putting in the hours, they're showing up, they're putting out these amazing meals, and then because of nothing, that's their fault.
00:03:14.000I was saying we should just talk about this on air because we're just talking in the green room.
00:03:18.000There's no clear indication of when you'll be able to go back to work and serve food to the general public and what that's going to look like.
00:03:30.000But how I'm investing my time, how a lot of other chef restaurateurs are investing their time is trying to serve takeout to the public, but also doing charitable and things to provide for first line, you know, front line, you know, defense.
00:03:46.000And one of the things is, you know, Jimmy Kimmel and I teamed up.
00:03:50.000For every meal that we prepare, we donate a meal to St. Joseph's Center.
00:04:45.000Do they order off a menu or do you just prepare stuff that you think that they'll enjoy?
00:04:49.000We prepare healthy things, things that they would appreciate.
00:04:53.000And then also sometimes I just serve comfort items.
00:04:56.000So sometimes I'll do meatloaf gravy and mashed potatoes because, you know, if they're just all healthy, sometimes they just need a little bit more of like, you know, warmth and like just kind of like pulling in.
00:05:05.000That's a weird word, comfort food, you know?
00:05:07.000It is, but that's what's happening now.
00:06:52.000So that's why I'm just focusing on, like, I just got to keep moving.
00:06:56.000That's how I'm emotionally getting through this thing and also keeping the business going is just basically just cook for people that are in need, you know, focus on the hospitals and the neighborhood just right around us.
00:07:26.000First of all, knowing that a good number of us are not going to be around because just even figuring out all the rules and the laws that are going to happen around this thing are unfolding.
00:07:36.000They're just very hard to read and get a clear understanding of what's happening.
00:07:40.000A lot of people just don't know the unknown.
00:07:43.000Landlords, we're deferring rent, but at the same time, they're not accepting of that.
00:07:49.000So we're on the hook, and we don't even really know where we're going to end up with it, even just the PPP loans.
00:07:57.000What is PPP? It's the Paycheck Protection Program, and that's really a government-funded assistance to supply restaurants and all businesses.
00:08:07.000I think of all the loans given out, I think only 5% of all the loans given out were actually to restaurants.
00:08:15.000So, they give you a chunk of money, essentially, that covers eight weeks of payroll, and also a portion of that for...
00:08:25.000That's 75% has to be spent on payroll, covers for eight weeks.
00:08:29.000And then the other 25% is for rent and utilities.
00:09:12.000Like, for me, I'm actually, like, inspired and just kicking it into high gear.
00:09:16.000I'm not going to, like, just wallow in it.
00:09:18.000I'm just going to keep working, head down, do what I do, and just hope at the end of the day.
00:09:22.000At the end of the day, people have to eat.
00:09:24.000So the world's going to be different, you know, probably not going to be the same at all in terms of for my business, but what choice do I have?
00:13:01.000When I teach people about dry aging, it's like if you're on a beach in Jamaica and there was no wind and you just start getting sweat and you're just uncomfortable, but then if trade winds went through, it would have, at the same temperature, it would evaporate the water off your skin.
00:14:22.000So, you know, whenever you're browning or you're doing different things at different rates, amino acids transform into different things and you get different flavor compounds.
00:14:31.000And that's really what happens, you know, with meat.
00:14:33.000You know, so if I dry age, you have to handle dry age meat a lot differently.
00:14:38.000You can't go out and say, okay, I'm going to slow cook this once it's dry age because then I just...
00:14:42.000It develops a really nasty, kind of like funky flavor.
00:14:47.000But if you cook it under high heat, like really aggressive, like that's why you have steakhouse broilers.
00:14:52.000There's something about that browning of that dry-aged meat that transforms, that just like awakens your senses.
00:15:43.000But if they want a well-done steak, then I recommend a wet-age steak to do well-done because at least you have a fighting chance for some type of flavor that would be appealing.
00:16:43.000So I have this method where, particularly for thicker steaks, where...
00:16:48.000I'll cook it, I start the cooking, and then I get it to about 105 degrees, and then I allow it to rest at 105. And what ends up happening is, I call the method just like tempering of the meat, and it basically, it starts transmitting the temperature in towards the center,
00:17:07.000and then I put it back in again, and then it'll heat up.
00:17:11.000The temperature, if you, like, take it, I would say for medium-rare, even though, like, on many logs we'll say, okay, 120, 125 is rare, but it's not.
00:17:21.000You know, for me, if you're going to do that method, a solid medium-rare will be about 120. Really?
00:18:11.000And they have these grates, these grill grates that rise and lower.
00:18:15.000And you can see how they're doing it when you walk in the door.
00:18:20.000As you're walking to your table, you're passing by.
00:18:23.000And this method of, this idea of cooking over logs, like cooking over fire, some people prefer that.
00:18:31.000And then some people like those crazy broilers where they're gas, but the broiler, it's on top, and you slide the steak in, and it's lowering down.
00:18:48.000Okay, for me, like where I'm at right now, dry age without any type of smoke or wood is more preferable because I really want to taste the dry age.
00:18:56.000When you start getting into the wood fire cooking and you're burning logs that aren't burnt out, I like to cook basically my wood down to charcoal, like to ash, so that it's cleaner.
00:19:09.000Okay, so then you really taste the meat.
00:19:10.000When you start You know, burning unburnt fuel, you know, the logs themselves, it has like these creosotes and different flavor compounds that will get on the meat.
00:19:20.000And it's just, it kind of just like coats your palate.
00:19:23.000So for dry, I like that for more wet age beef.
00:21:21.000I basically take meat that has been aged and I bring those spores, if you will, from that aging meat because, you know, there's a mold on it.
00:23:03.000So, you know, for me, that's why I take a lot of pride, even though it's not the most cost-effective thing to carry, you know, $100,000 in inventory.
00:23:11.000But it gives me a unique flavor profile that is my unique selling point for my restaurant.
00:23:17.000So you have these pieces, so like those steaks that we saw in that photograph, you would take one of those dry-aged steaks when it's ready, and then you would trim the pieces off, then you use those pieces, those darkened pieces, which has the spores on it, and that would...
00:23:32.000How do you know how much to put in there?
00:24:01.000So each room is different because, you know, I had a dry age room in Vegas and we had, you know, ceilings that were 30, 35 feet, a lot of circulating air.
00:24:12.000It was just, it was just like, had a different flavor profile.
00:25:22.000You know, it's just dehydrating, whatever.
00:25:24.000It's like, no, I think we're onto something.
00:25:26.000You know, there's a big difference here in the flavor.
00:25:29.000And as, you know, we would see like a huge difference, a jump into flavor and like good quality, not like the funky stuff, like the full year.
00:26:58.000You know, they were doing it in Spain for some time, particularly with the older animals like the oxen, you know, animals that are five years, eight years, ten years old.
00:27:08.000And they would age these for long periods of time.
00:27:11.000I was not aware of this when I started doing it, but they were the first people that I heard about it was doing it while I was doing it.
00:27:17.000There was amazing food writer Jeffrey Steingarten who just like...
00:27:21.000Dialed into me and we did a tasting with one of my culinary heroes, Harold McGee, who wrote the incredible book on food and cooking, which is a scientific manual to all chefs around.
00:28:20.000I don't want to say like I was the only one, but, you know, possibly there could have been a few people, but, you know.
00:28:29.000So what's interesting to me about just cuisine and cooking in general is that I didn't think of it until I watched Bourdain's original show, No Reservations.
00:29:10.000Focused on it and so enthralled by these flavors and these creations that these chefs would make that I realized like, oh, this is an art form.
00:29:42.000It's like there's a moment in time when – As chefs, we explore it as art, you know, because, you know, you're not going in with any boundaries and you're not going in any preconceived notions of what it should be.
00:29:54.000And that's when cooking is a true art.
00:29:57.000Most of the time, we're doing the craft part, where we figured it out, and then there's a regiment of lining it up to make sure it's consistent, and we pride ourselves in basically that consistency and team gathering around and doing something universal together.
00:30:14.000But the art form for me is, and maintaining, just being curious and inquisitive, has just been my bug from the day I decided to be a chef and For many people, like Bourdain and every other chef that I know of, that's the key, that you know that you'll never learn everything.
00:30:31.000But you keep trying, and there's just like a sea of information that's out there to explore.
00:30:38.000Yeah, he would take you on these journeys to these, like, very strange restaurants in France where, you know, they're on the side of a lake and there's, like, ten customers and a hundred chefs working.
00:30:49.000And they're creating these things, like, with fillet knives and a grape and, like, two or three caviar eggs.
00:30:56.000And then they give it to these people and they're in ecstasy.
00:31:08.000I've been a lifelong martial artist, and when some people believe ridiculous things about martial arts, And then you have to kind of, well, that's not really how it works.
00:31:19.000And then they see it from my perspective and they're like, oh, you've been doing this your whole life.
00:31:24.000This is something you're deeply invested in and you're very passionate about and you care very deeply about the true nature of what martial arts are.
00:31:49.000It's just a strange one that it's beautiful to the people that appreciate it, that understand how difficult it is to pull something off and what this incredible dance between these people is.
00:32:02.000On the outside, an ignorant person or a person with a very narrow-minded perspective would say, oh, that's not an art.
00:32:49.000There's so much going on, and I think it's like everything.
00:32:53.000So many things, you look at them from the outside, whether it's carpentry or sculpture, you look at it from the outside, and if you have no experience in it, people can dismiss it, and they don't think of it as this passionate art form.
00:33:06.000But now I have a completely different...
00:33:08.000I mean, I became good friends with Bourdain, and I did a show and hung out with him a bunch of times, and I got it then.
00:33:17.000I'm like, okay, this is a different thing than I had this idea, this narrow-minded idea of what food is.
00:33:23.000And then you get to meet other chefs and you meet all these people and you're like, these are these sort of underappreciated artists that are also feeding people.
00:33:46.000It was after an event down in South Beach Food and Wine.
00:33:51.000We're all, as cooks do, all at the end of an event, you know, we're sitting around and we're just kind of reminiscing on things happening, and he was there, I was sitting next to him, and someone brought up the concept of, you know, Japanese cuisine, and I just said...
00:35:15.000You know, know who, like, produces the best tuna.
00:35:18.000He'll get you to the tuna boat and he'll introduce you to the guy, the main guy.
00:35:22.000But, I mean, these guys who buy the tuna, for example, like, you're seeing them at the market, touching, feeling it, but the best sushi chefs know the actual captains and they know how they're handling the fish and they have a relationship that far before it actually hits the auction.
00:35:42.000I asked them one day, You know, he was talking about this big tuna auction that they do every year.
00:35:48.000And I said, why would someone pay a million dollars for tuna?
00:35:50.000Like, you know, Western, like, how do you make your money back?
00:35:53.000He's like, no, you know, Japanese, it's considered, you know, an obligation, if you can afford it, to actually be able to, even at a loss, to your customers, because it's almost a duty to do so.
00:36:39.000But culturally, deep down inside of them, it's like it's almost their duty to do it.
00:36:43.000It's not as if, I mean, it's definitely like you could look at it as a show-off thing, but I mean, if you really understand from like Western culture, but in reality there, it's almost like it's a pride thing.
00:37:15.000I wanted, as a chef, to do everything that I can within the cycle of serving the steak on the plate up to the point where they cut the meat to have that control on it.
00:37:28.000And then ultimately, whether they like it or not, that's their business.
00:37:31.000But at least I did everything that I could to control it.
00:37:35.000Because even just how you cut the meat has a different impact on how you would taste it.
00:37:40.000Yeah, that's one of the interesting things about your place.
00:38:16.000I don't want to sit there, you know, like, you know, people are idiots sometimes, you know, they'll go into the restaurant and they'll just take stuff and they don't realize what goes into it.
00:38:23.000And I was like, listen, you know, I know I'm going to have a couple of bad apples in there, but the majority of people really are good people and they're not going to steal things.
00:38:31.000But a good majority will take pepper mills and things, which infuriates us as restaurateurs.
00:42:59.000You know him and I like we're head down and we can literally spend 12 to 14 hours just stamping an insignia into the blade and You know days upon days like thousands of hours of work go into these things and Who else does that?
00:43:14.000Is there any other chefs that make their own knives?
00:43:17.000Not that I really know you got that market cornered I guess so I guess so you know how did you get involved in that like it was that something you thought like hey This would be a great additional touch or were you always fascinated with knife making?
00:43:29.000Well, I've always been fascinated by knives because knives to a chef are an extension of themselves.
00:43:34.000So you can judge a chef just basically on how sharp they are and how they maintain their knives in terms of what type of quality of output they're actually going to do.
00:43:44.000So if you're just someone who has a garden and grows a tomato, you're going to take that first tomato.
00:43:50.000You think you're just going to grab any knife from the drawer?
00:43:52.000You're going to get your sharpest knife and you're going to slice into it.
00:43:55.000So like everything we do, it's like, if you're seriously committed to the craft, it's like, you want to make sure your tools are top notch.
00:44:04.000And for me, I've always, you know, always had a knife in my hand.
00:44:07.000But when I sold my business in London, um, I wanted to just take some time, and I got into this concept of wanting just to go that next step, that next level.
00:44:20.000I was fascinated with steel, so I went to the New England School of Metalwork.
00:44:25.000First, we learned how to make steel from iron, and then went through the whole process.
00:44:33.000They have these great courses, you know, a week, two weeks, three weeks at a pop.
00:44:37.000So, you know, it's about a year flying back and forth to Maine to attend the school.
00:44:44.000And then that community is like I remember a restaurant community before Food Network got involved.
00:44:50.000And, you know, it's all about craft and sharing information.
00:44:54.000So you can go to these things called hammer-ins, where around the country there'll be an ensemble of maybe like nine to ten, you know, master smiths.
00:45:02.000Who will show like, okay, handle making or, you know, making a dagger or tempering steel, you know, in a certain way.
00:46:25.000And when you pick it up and hold it, it's got weight to it, but it's delicate in the sense that it's thin and elegant, but yet it's designed...
00:46:35.000Can you see the curve in the blade like that?
00:46:37.000And, you know, what's amazing about this is that when they do the quench, in other words, when they're actually putting the sole of the blade into it, the heat treatment.
00:46:46.000So, you know, anybody can, like, pound out and make a shake.
00:46:48.000Well, not anybody, but pretty much anybody who's handy with...
00:46:53.000You know, making things can make what looks like a blade.
00:46:56.000But the true soul of the blade comes through the thermal cycle, the heat treatment.
00:47:01.000That's why, you know, people like, oh, Japanese steel is the best or German steel is the best because there's this whole process that is about aligning the molecular structure and the right type of stack and the type of steel that you do and then hardening it or softening it.
00:47:17.000So if you want a softer blade or You know, that might be more utility or you want a harder blade.
00:47:23.000That might be more brittle but can get really razor sharp.
00:47:26.000That's what determines what the blade is and what it will be.
00:47:31.000And it's that sole of the blade that, like something like this.
00:47:34.000So this curve is actually produced by the quench.
00:47:37.000So after you go through this process and you heat it up and you put it into the water, it actually just blasts.
00:47:45.000It bows up and actually creates its curve.
00:47:51.000That's why these guys are, to me, the epitome of, like, masters.
00:47:55.000These craftsmen that make knives and blades.
00:47:58.000Well, there's always the dopest scenes in movies where someone's making a samurai sword when they're about to go out and kill somebody with it.
00:48:04.000The thing is, the guy goes to the knife master or the sword master and he's pounding on it and the red-hot steel dunking into the fire.
00:48:13.000I went to get a blade made for me in Japan, and I went to this amazing place, Corn Trading in New York, and the owner, she came to me and she says, well, the knife maker would like to have a picture of you.
00:48:28.000While they're making the blade and at that time, I was just like, whoa, this is this before I was making.
00:48:34.000So he wants to look at you while he's making it?
00:49:28.000You know, I think Food Network and food shows in general are a great thing.
00:49:34.000You know, it empowers people to cook, and there's all different levels, and I think it's the greatest thing.
00:49:39.000It also has given us as chefs a platform to do some incredible things, too.
00:49:44.000But there was a different type of motivation between the cook's Yeah.
00:50:10.000About the craft, the putting in the hours, the repetition that doesn't make sense until all of a sudden you're doing something without thinking about it.
00:50:19.000And that's what it was like really before.
00:50:22.000Everybody who was in the kitchen was there because...
00:50:26.000They loved cooking, not for any reason of celebrity or whatever it is.
00:50:33.000So it really, it did change good, you know, patience.
00:50:37.000Like, so people, like, the progression would be like, oh, you work as a line cook for three to four years, and then, you know, then you're a sous chef for a number of years, and then you're a chef.
00:50:47.000And, you know, there was a progression.
00:50:48.000And then when the whole thing came along, and then it was everybody was like, From culinary school to chef.
00:51:58.000So the more that you can get in terms of your toolbox, in terms of the use of the knife, I mean, cooking, I don't think about cooking when I'm doing it.
00:52:05.000It's just only when I step back and reflect and I want to teach somebody, I say, oh, yeah, I do that.
00:54:14.000You'll have different schools of how you approach things.
00:54:16.000You say, hey, one guy does it this way, one guy does it that way.
00:54:20.000But I think the best thing that you can say is that I think about it as like, hey, you have a golf bag and you have all these different irons and woods and all these different things in there.
00:55:34.000Water can start to develop underneath the steak and then it starts boiling or steaming and that's why you can't get a crust.
00:55:40.000When you put in a steak into a cast iron pan, for example, and you can do a planche or whatever, the rate at which water is repelled is basically it steams or it goes away from the meat.
00:55:52.000And so as a result, it then starts the browning and transforming the flavor rather than it boiling.
00:56:00.000Because if you tasted a boiled piece of meat versus a Piece of meat with a crust, you'd say the piece of meat with a crust is a lot better.
00:56:11.000So the cast iron pan is basically when you put the steak in, the temperature is not even going to be moved because it's like a freight train.
00:56:21.000But something like a thinner steel pan, if you put something big and cold into it, it's going to drop the temperature of the steel and then it has to recover not only with the steel but the mass of, let's say, a thick steak.
00:57:37.000Okay, so for example, what I would tweak with you is like, I would say go to 265. You can have the same results in a quicker period of time with the same tenderness.
00:57:46.000That ratio of speed is not going to impact your product.
00:57:51.000So at the end of the day, 225, everybody says slow and low, but I'd say a lot of times like a bit hotter and a bit quicker is actually better for the crust development.
00:58:02.000Because for the tenderness of the meat, let's say you have a thick, like a brisket, and it's got all this collagen in it, which is tightly wound protein.
00:58:11.000I think about it as like a sponge that's dehydrated.
00:58:14.000When you throw it on top of the water, it kind of floats, and then all of a sudden it catches and then soaks up the juice.
00:58:19.000So when you're putting it in at that lower temperature, you're heating it up, you're causing the protein to squeeze out the liquid, and then if you're doing it at the right ratio, it's drinking.
00:58:30.000The liquid into the collagen to turn into gelatin, which is that unctuous, beautiful mouthfeel that you'll get from a long-cooked piece of meat.
00:58:39.000Now, if you get a long-cooked piece of meat, like a really well-done brisket, what temperature are you cooking that at?
00:58:45.000Depending on the cooker that I'm using, but 265 is my typical dial-in.
00:58:51.000So 265, you don't ever go lower than that for anything?
00:58:55.000I can if I want to get sleep, depending on my schedule.
00:58:58.000In other words, I'm going to get relatively the same results, but less crust development from 225, depending on how I handle it.
00:59:06.000Again, there's lots of little variables.
00:59:08.000But by 265, I've found that for brisket, for example, it's the right ratio of that collagen drinking it up to get the gelatin and also the right crust development.
00:59:48.000For me, there's nothing like a crust that is created, because what ends up happening is, it's like, you know, if you're cooking it slow, all these juices start to get pulled out, okay?
00:59:57.000And they disappear, like the juice on the bag, make it into a sauce, or it gets evaporated into the air.
01:00:03.000The thing about doing that is, is like, if you're putting it directly in the pan while it's wet, All those juices are bouncing back and then re-adhering to the meat.
01:00:51.000I would probably say to brown it first and then go slow, the reverse, because there is a gentle way of, like, it's so lean, you want to kind of like slide into home, I kind of say.
01:01:04.000It's like you develop a certain amount of momentum, and for the leaner meats, it's about the rest.
01:01:09.000So you're cooking it, and then you're taking it out, and then you're allowing that heat momentum to kind of carry over.
01:05:08.000And, you know, you want to kind of feel it so that, you know, when you touch it, it doesn't feel raw, but it starts to give it a slight spring, and then you pull it.
01:05:19.000And then, like I said earlier, it's like you kind of like slide into home.
01:05:22.000You let that residual heat and that temperature flow.
01:05:26.000A lot of times, if you're going a bit fast, you take it and then you have some cold melted butter, not too cold, still a little bit liquid, and you cook it and then you just dunk it right into the butter and it just arrests the cooking.
01:05:38.000And then you have it there and then the guests come and then all you have to do is just heat it up a little bit and then it goes.
01:05:57.000You want to enjoy your time with them.
01:05:59.000You figure out little tricks, what you can get away with and what you can do.
01:06:03.000My friend Tom Papa, who you met earlier, who's getting tested for COVID along with you, when he has been in here before, he brings this homemade sourdough bread that's just sensational.
01:06:55.000And that connection that you have to the food is going to also make you care about it more while you cook it.
01:07:01.000And it's not just a commodity where, okay, what are me 16 steaks in a box and bring it in?
01:07:07.000I mean, you can push out food like that.
01:07:09.000There's a place for that in this world.
01:07:11.000Well, what I'm really hoping, really hoping, is that some sort of a rapid test for COVID, not even like the 15 minute one that we came, because I heard something about some saliva test that they're trying to develop that's extremely rapid.
01:07:27.000That would be amazing if you could just test people right before they come into your restaurant and no one has to worry about shit.
01:08:00.000And that's what's going to be mandated on us.
01:08:03.000I mean, there's a certain series of things that we're going to have to do.
01:08:08.000Nobody knows for sure or whatnot, but who knows?
01:08:12.000Well, at a certain point in time, I think we really need to make a decision as to whether or not we're just going to allow this to take over our world or whether we're going to do what we can do to protect the sick.
01:08:30.000You know, if you're in contact with people that have a weakened immune system, you're gonna have to have a different life than someone who doesn't.
01:08:39.000If you're a person with a weakened immune system, you're gonna have a different life.
01:08:42.000If you're an older person, you're gonna have to have a different life.
01:08:45.000But for the vast majority of us, we're gonna have to give people the freedom to make choices.
01:08:52.000And to do what they want to do with their own life and their own health.
01:08:57.000If you're giving people the freedom to eat terrible food, look, heart attacks are killing people as quickly as anything, right?
01:09:04.000Cancer is killing people as quickly as anything.
01:09:07.000Cigarettes kill a half a million people a year.
01:09:11.000It's trying to get people to stop smoking cigarettes.
01:09:13.000In fact, there's not a single word ever spoken about it in presidential campaigns, in governor campaigns, congressional campaigns.
01:09:21.000No one's out there trying to get people to stop smoking cigarettes, but yet it's killing a half a million people every year in this country alone.
01:11:34.000We're hoping that there's some sort of a treatment where it's not a death sentence for people even with immune compromised systems.
01:11:40.000So, I mean, I just, I feel so bad for people like you and for all the people out there that own these amazing restaurants that it's one of my favorite things to do is to go to a nice restaurant.
01:12:26.000It's difficult for me because, you know, I hear your point, but I have just such great empathy for, you know, people that would get sick just by someone else's negligence.
01:12:35.000And for me, it's a bit of a tussle here because, you know, I want to just, you know, on one hand, you have like an economy that is just tanking and businesses that are going to go out of, you know, business.
01:12:48.000But then on the other hand, you know, you have...
01:12:51.000Some people that are defenseless, some people that look healthy, fantastic, like a friend, 45 years old, goes in, and they're on a ventilator, and it's just like you can't give the answers.
01:13:04.000I don't know if I'm even prepared to give you a summary on it.
01:13:07.000I haven't formulated in my brain the way that I've just been coping, and that's all.
01:13:16.000For me, I'm just trying to put faith in the fact that people have to eat and people like you really want to have restaurants around.
01:13:24.000And in the end, we're going to find our way.
01:13:27.000And the only way I know to get through this is just to head down and work and be really helpful to people that are in need and be there for the community and feed them.
01:13:49.000Even if I was in control, I mean, you know, because I don't want people to die unnecessarily by people's negligence.
01:13:55.000But on the other hand, I just don't know.
01:13:58.000Well, it's such an incredibly messy situation with no clear-cut answer because of the fact that you do have these people that are seemingly healthy, 35-year-old people that are getting it and dying.
01:15:51.000And people like you are the ones, I mean, obviously the people that get hit the hardest of the people, A, with the disease and B, that work with people with the disease, right?
01:15:59.000The people that have the disease and then the first responders and hospital workers and all the different people that work to help those people, they're the most devastated by this.
01:16:11.000But there are so many small businesses right now that are in this position that you're in where there's so much uncertainty.
01:16:21.000I mean, at the end of the day, for a lot of these business, that's the looming factor, is being on the hook.
01:16:28.000Not only just to make rent the following month with a compromised 50% occupancy, if you can imagine.
01:16:36.000If you're paying rent for that, you have a model in terms of how much income.
01:16:40.000Someone brought out the possibility of instead of forgiving the rent, taking the rent and putting it on the back end of it.
01:16:49.000So right now, essentially, for the three months, you don't need to pay the rent, but you'll be at on three months to the end of your lease.
01:18:36.000I was just basically living off of the proceeds from the sale of my business that I had in London and other projects.
01:18:45.000And you just kind of like, as an entrepreneur, you're just putting it into the restaurant, hoping it opens as quick as you can, and then you have your cash flow.
01:18:55.000God, the fucking opening up a business like that must be so insanely stressful.
01:19:00.000Yeah, because especially not inheriting an existing restaurant.
01:19:05.000For me, it's like, wow, I really believe in the area.
01:19:51.000A lot of development, you know, I think that over the course of like the past, like within five years and two years, like six billion in development of buildings and hotels.
01:19:59.000And there's a revitalization project that's taking place on Hollywood Boulevard that's going to extend the sidewalks and make it almost prominent on like.
01:20:08.000And, you know, I think that, you know, If any place in L.A. should be that kind of place, it should be there.
01:20:16.000I mean, I saw the revitalization in Times Square, for example.
01:20:20.000You know, as a kid, like, don't walk down the street and don't go there.
01:20:49.00070s and 80s, I remember my dad sitting down and was like, okay, you don't walk down the street and you always look as if you're carrying something.
01:20:58.000You always look like you walk as if you're carrying a knife or something.
01:21:02.000This is a 12, 13-year-old kid, you know?
01:24:07.000But fly fishing is for people who think fishing is too easy.
01:24:13.000No, okay, this is what you had asked me to say, the catch and release thing.
01:24:16.000So it's kind of like creating a sustainable culture and environment that gets passed on for generations.
01:24:22.000Because there's so much more than just catching the fish.
01:24:25.000It's that moment in time when you completely block out, you turn your phones off, or most of the time you're out of range.
01:24:30.000You're with a fishing buddy, and you're almost like parallel playing, and you're sitting there, and you focus on a certain riff in the water, and you start casting to it, and you start figuring out what's going on.
01:24:43.000And there's just some real beauty in the whole process of it that...
01:24:47.000To me, it's like shooting an elk with a suction cup at the end of the arrow and the elk runs off like, I got him!
01:24:52.000He's running off with a suction cup arrow that's going to drop off and he's going to be unharmed.
01:26:20.000I liken it the same thing to my dry age room with that concept is that, you know, if you don't have that free-flowing air and that kind of that oxygen in the room, it has an impact on flavor.
01:26:30.000If you have like a swampy, wet environment, it's going to impact the beef.
01:27:47.000Slowly manipulating this and then they were catching these these trout and then just gently catching them and then releasing them And we have a group of guys that we do this with.
01:28:17.000Um, I've done it, but, um, I don't do it now.
01:28:20.000I mean, with the restaurant, the way it is, you know, it's, it's always just so time consuming and now that they make such beautiful patterns, but there is maybe the next level.
01:28:30.000Like when I retire, quote unquote, you know, like delve into, I have like a whole mailbox desk with all like the hackle and the everything there, but it's just sitting there.
01:28:40.000You know how you talk about how making your own knives is like another level.
01:28:45.000I would imagine that tying your own fly and then catching like a large trout.
01:28:50.000It's that whole process to lead up to.
01:28:52.000You have a pattern or it's even just like, what are they eating?
01:28:56.000Seeing what's hatching coming off and matching the hatch.
01:28:59.000The temperature of the water, the water levels, the speed.
01:29:03.000Like the first thing we check before we go on a trip is, What are the water levels?
01:30:16.000And it just started the obsession there.
01:30:18.000There's just something about the connection to the fish and the whole thing as opposed to just kind of like going on a boat and trolling and waiting for them to strike.
01:30:28.000What you're doing is it's like you're trying to find the location of the fish and then you have to place the fly and you have to like let it drift without any drag and it's like this combination of skill and intuition and And hunting, that's the excitement,
01:30:44.000whereas just catching and throwing meat in the thing, okay, I mean, I've done it and I still do it.
01:30:48.000I like being on the water, but fly fishing is just like this higher level thing.
01:30:53.000Do you do any kind of fishing with lures other than fly fishing?
01:30:58.000And I can't even – like there's so much social pressure amongst my group anyway because they get on me because most of the guys are dry – like Jimmy is like dry fly only.
01:31:09.000Like even if like no fish – We should explain dry flies or flies that float on the surface.
01:32:08.000He lives in Montana and he is like, we talk about every year fishing on the Bitterroot for the Swallow Hatch, which is a certain kind of almost like a salmon fly.
01:33:49.000They could die as quick, if not quicker, than a rifle with a well-placed arrow because they bleed so quickly.
01:33:54.000It goes through the vitals and they're done in seconds.
01:33:59.000It's harder to do, and it requires an immense amount of discipline and dedication.
01:34:05.000And I'm sure fly fishing requires some, but with bow hunting, you literally have to practice every day.
01:34:11.000I mean, you think you saw in the back, I have an archery range in the garage back there where you see there's a 45-yard range, and I shoot arrows every day.
01:34:46.000If you did, you'd be out there practicing every day.
01:34:49.000It's a thing that once you realize what's at stake, how difficult it is to do, how much respect you have to have for the art of archery, and how much effort has to be put into the discipline.
01:35:04.000If you really want to hunt your own meat, and this is one of the things that's come up during this pandemic, because people are really scared about the food supply, and they're scared about not having food in their home that they can rely upon.
01:35:15.000And also, before that, there was this whole thing about gathering organic meat.
01:35:23.000They were worried about animals that weren't treated correctly and factory farming and all the different things that people should be concerned about.
01:35:29.000And the ultimate solution to that is get an animal that's in the wild.
01:35:33.000This animal's been living the way they've been living for hundreds of thousands of years.
01:35:39.000And you stealthily make your way through their world, get yourself into a position, and then through hard work and dedication and understanding, take an animal ethically.
01:36:58.000But when I sit down and I feed my family...
01:37:01.000The code, though, if you really look at it, I mean, if you just focus on the catch and release or whatever, but there's a code to it, I mean, you get it.
01:37:11.000Yeah, the code, the difference between bow hunting and regular hunting versus regular fishing and fly fishing.
01:37:17.000But even just regular hunting and bow hunting, I'm just saying you're hunting with guys that have an ethical responsibility, understand the environment, and follow the rules.
01:37:33.000The thing to consider is there's millions, in fact, billions of dollars every year that go into wildlife habitat, go into preservation.
01:37:44.000All the different people that work as game wardens are all paid by this.
01:37:49.000And this is all money that's taken from hunting licenses...
01:37:54.000The Pickman-Robertson Act, they take a certain percentage of, I think it's 10%, of all the proceeds from ammunition sales, licenses, equipment, all that stuff goes to preservation.
01:38:12.000The source, the number one source for economics in terms of financial, the amount of resources that go to managing these areas and keeping these animals healthy and monitoring them and monitoring their populations and even reintroducing different animals like Rocky Mountain sheep and all these different animals,
01:38:33.000elk, that get introduced into all these different places.
01:38:39.000And it's crazy to think that at one point in time, most of the animals in North America that we hunt on a regular basis were on the verge of extinction, including white-tailed deer, which is crazy to think if you live in a place that has white-tailed deer because there's so many of them, it's insane.
01:38:54.000But there's more white-tailed deer today than there were when Columbus landed.
01:39:03.000The wildlife management system that's in place in North America, including the management of public lands and the access to public lands, is a truly special place.
01:39:13.000It's truly special here in North America, and that is because of the people that love hunting and love these wild areas.
01:42:16.000They did a whole series on her, like a great movie, I think on HBO. Claire Danes played her.
01:42:23.000But she'll literally crawl through the abattoir to understand all the angles and advise so the animals don't get super stressed.
01:42:32.000A stressed animal has an impact on the quality of the beef.
01:42:35.000And also, you don't want to torture anything.
01:42:38.000There's a responsibility behind eating meat, I think.
01:42:42.000So, you know, for me, it starts not only with the family farms that they're raising the cattle, the feed that they're finishing the cattle on, and then how they're transported, you know, and then how they go through the system in terms of the abattoir storage and then come to me.
01:43:00.000I like to receive a majority of my beef in combos, which means it never sees the inside of a cryovac bag, the plastic bags.
01:43:09.000For me, dry aging that way is also, it preserves a lot of the natural, good, friendly bacteria that's on the meat as opposed to putting it in a bag and then they put steam to almost sterilize the meat and they put it along.
01:43:26.000And so there's all these different flavors that are gathered.
01:43:29.000I think from John Tarboff and Nyman Ranch, they've really been my go-to nowadays.
01:43:35.000But it's like John and his sons, they really have educated me on beef and give me a lot of pride.
01:43:43.000There is a genetic factor for tenderness in beef.
01:43:46.000I mean, I didn't realize this, but it's not just, oh, that one's really nicely marbled.
01:44:37.000So just because something's grass-fed, I think sometimes the animals themselves, it's more stressful to eat grass that is not nutrient-rich.
01:44:45.000So I believe in grass-fed with responsible grass farmers that are then allowing the cattle, you know, to do grass-fed right, which I've experienced over in Ireland, Scotland, and in England.
01:45:00.000It's literally, it's about the nutrition.
01:45:03.000So, I mean, you go out and you say, okay, this animal is grass-fed and you taste the meat.
01:45:08.000It's like, this meat is horrible, as opposed to another grass-fed and like, this is great.
01:45:14.000So for me, it's really more about the nutrition, like how healthy can you maintain the animal?
01:45:19.000I'm not talking about like force-feeding the animal, but I think the right...
01:45:23.000The right characteristics of beef that you and I love really come from grain finished beef as a mainstay.
01:45:31.000But you can find some grass-fed that's competitive with that, but it's hard to find.
01:45:37.000The argument about grass-fed beef is primarily taste, if you prefer it, and I do a lot of times, but also health, that it's healthier for you.
01:45:48.000The essential fatty acids of a grass-fed cow are different.
01:45:57.000But again, it depends on how you look at steak.
01:46:00.000Look, if you're an everyday beef eater, I think that that conversation is completely valid.
01:46:07.000But if you're someone who looks at steak as an extravagance or something that is almost a celebration to enjoy, Grain finished beef is like butter.
01:47:27.000So, like, this whole concept of, like, saying grass-fed versus grain-fed, I think that there's another story, and that, for me, is really the nutrition of the animal.
01:47:37.000There is the concept of, you know, healthy nutrition that you'll find higher, you know, higher traits of that, but I'm not a nutritionist at the end of the day, so...
01:47:46.000You know, are you aware of the carnivore diet?
01:49:05.000I don't know if my analogy makes sense, but if you eat meat and only meat, I really feel like there's some kind of a shift that happens with virtually no carbohydrates.
01:49:17.000I might have had a couple of pieces of chili mango and I think I had a few olives or something like that for the whole month.
01:50:31.000I've had friends, my friend Trevor did it for, I think he said he did it for six months, but after a while he felt like he was dropping off.
01:50:37.000But then I know people that have been doing it for years, and they feel great.
01:50:42.000I can't do it like as a strict, you know, regiment, you know, but...
01:50:46.000Have you ever tried to do it as a strict regimen?
01:50:48.000When you say you can't do it as a strict regimen?
01:50:51.000I have, you know, I have, but not when I have the restaurant in operation because, you know, I'm sitting there and, you know, I'm tasting everything, you know, making sure everything's right and includes like a pasta or something.
01:51:02.000It could just be like a bite and just messes with you.
01:51:05.000Yeah, the greatest thing in the world to me is intermittent fasting.
01:51:08.000You know, for me, it's like, you know, not eat, you know, from that period of time and, you know, start eating at like four o'clock in the afternoon.
01:51:16.000And that, for me, has always been like a godsend that just that works.
01:52:24.000But, I mean, there's, like, a feeling, like, when you take a spoon of that fudge and ice cream, you put it in, like, it goes through your whole body.
01:52:32.000I know, your body's so happy for that brief period of time, but then it's just a trick, because then you feel like you got poisoned.
01:52:37.000I remember one time, I was eating real strict, and then I decided to go off the reservation for a day, and I had a cheeseburger with fries and a giant shake, a big chocolate shake, and my fucking head hurt.
01:53:57.000What is your day like when you get there?
01:53:59.000Like when do you get there and when do you leave?
01:54:01.000Well, now, normally I'd get in at, let's say, anywhere from 10, like 10 o'clock and then could leave as late, you know, typically like 10, 30, 11. So you guys have a lunch crowd?
01:55:23.000But my usual routine, like particularly now, like I'll get in by 10 o'clock.
01:55:27.000I take a list of what's, you know, going on like for that day, pack out meals, whatever, you know, finish like 10, like 8, 8, anywhere from between 8 to 10. That's a long day.