In this episode of the podcast, I sit down with my friend Aaron Snyder to talk about his life as a pro hobo and how he ended up on the show "Pro Hobo: Alone". We talk about what it was like to be on that show alone and how it changed his life. We also talk about how he went on to become a professional hobo. I hope you enjoy this episode and that it gives you a little insight into what it's like being a hobo in the outdoors. I know it's a crazy life and I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it. Enjoy the episode and remember to share it with a friend or family member who needs to know about it! If you like the show, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! I'll be looking over the best ones and sharing them on the next episode. Thank you so much for all the support and support! Peace, Love, Blessings, Cheers, and Cheers. Cheers! -Jon Sorrentino and the Crew at CoferroCast. Jon & Jake <3 Jon & The Crew at the CofercoCast Aaron Snyder and Frank the Tank at the Pro Hobo Podcast. Aaron and Frank The Tank at The Hobo Project. Thanks Jon & the Hobo Crew at Pro hobo Project Jon talks about their experience in Siberia and how they did it all by riding across the country by riding on freight trains and riding on a freight train to get there and back and back to finish the job in the other way. Ben and back in the middle of nowhere in the next day to get back in time to finish what they've been dreaming of doing it all and getting back to where they can do it all the way back to the other side of it all in the best way possible. I'm so stoked to finally get to do it like that. I hope y'all can all the hard work they've done it. Thank you all the work they can get a chance to do what they're doing it. -Jon and the HOBOBY! -Jon & The HOBO Project! Jon and The Pro HOBBOHOBOBHOBO PRO Hobo Experience. -Ben and the rest of the crew at the end of the episode... Thanks, Jon and the crew.
00:01:37.000Yeah, but Let's give people your background like it's kind of unfair in a way and Aaron brought this up on the podcast that you were on this show with a bunch of people like me like regular folks that have never really lived like that before but you've done some crazy adventure shit in Siberia and yeah,
00:01:56.000so man, I guess How far do you want to go back?
00:03:00.000It was a real taste of freedom, and I think that was kind of like a coming-of-age experience for me, because I just realized Oh man, I don't really want to, you know, I wasn't going to be in this typical life after having experienced that.
00:03:13.000Like every night, you know, it's like total freedom.
00:04:05.000You know, a lot of times he had had some connections throughout the country where we could, oh, we could go stop there and work for a guy, make a few bucks, and then continue on.
00:04:13.000But you don't really need much in those situations.
00:04:16.000You know, you'd do some dumpster diving.
00:06:12.000So we did some construction jobs in Virginia, and then...
00:06:18.000And then, you know, I was a young guy trying to figure out how to live a meaningful life or whatever, you know, what am I going to do with my life?
00:06:53.000Now, I know it means a lot of things to a lot of people, but for me, it was always like, it was interesting because it was summed up in the Bible, like, you know, love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself, and God is defined as love.
00:07:09.000And so that was kind of always the core focus for my...
00:07:12.000You know how I tried to decide what I was gonna do in life and at the time I heard of a guy it was over in Russia building orphanages and Needed help and so Felt really strongly that I was the right thing to do.
00:07:28.000So I have a brother that's adopted and when he grew up he wanted to find his biological mom and just tell her thanks for the chance at life or whatever.
00:07:37.000And when he did, turns out she had another son who was gonna go over there and I met him and he told me about this guy.
00:07:47.000So I basically felt it was the right thing to do and bought a ticket for a year, you know, just a full year, just go over to Russia, and I headed over there, and that was kind of how the next chapter, I guess, started in life.
00:08:16.000So this guy that was building the orphanage is an American guy, but I went over there and I didn't want to live with an American because I wanted to learn Russian.
00:08:22.000So he sent me to a neighboring village with these two families.
00:08:28.000Both of them were like ex-cons and, you know, had spent a lot of time in Siberian prisons, but they had changed.
00:08:34.000You know, they were like super cool dudes.
00:08:36.000One guy was just covered in prison tattoos, one of the funniest guys I know, but he...
00:09:49.000That's a crazy thing to do, to just go move there with no Russian at all.
00:09:54.000Did you buy a book on English to Russian?
00:09:56.000Yeah, but I found the best way, if you ever go to a different country and don't know anything, just have a notepad with you, and you'll start to get familiar with words as you live in there.
00:10:06.000And then at the end of the day, I'd write those words down as I recognized them.
00:10:10.000At the end of the day, I would look up the definition, and just five to ten words a day, just slowly learn.
00:10:16.000And by the end of the year, I was pretty...
00:10:19.000You know, starting to get to where I could be comfortable.
00:10:40.000So you don't speak like, if you want to say like, I love you.
00:10:44.000You know, there's no, there's no form in the sentence.
00:10:47.000Like you could say you love I or love I you, you know, you could throw the words in any direct, in any order, but the word actually changes based on its role in the sentence.
00:10:57.000So when you're learning the language, you just get all these words dumped on you and you have to like try to sort through, uh, You know, how it's formed.
00:11:07.000How would you say I love you in Russian?
00:11:51.000It made me kind of understand, oh, maybe that's why you get those, like, Russian authors that were so great because they were supposed to, you know, they were able to form ideas in a slightly more flexible way, maybe.
00:12:04.000It was interesting to learn a language and I was like, huh, that's actually probably a better language in English in a lot of ways.
00:12:09.000Yeah, it was like, it's a lot of things you can, it's more fun to speak in Russian because you can like switch up words and make weird things.
00:12:16.000It's always been fascinating to me how people sound so different in different places.
00:12:21.000Like they have a different way, like Brazil.
00:15:44.000There's so many different ways to communicate.
00:15:46.000So, I mean, I know this, but I only know this in a sense that I know it's a thing.
00:15:52.000I don't know that you actually experienced it.
00:15:55.000Yeah, it was really interesting to learn a very different language as an adult and kind of like, oh, wow, that's just a whole new way to think.
00:16:35.000And the guys I lived with, so they had, you know, both been to prison, but they had also been in prison together with some native nomadic guy that lived up in the north of Siberia.
00:16:46.000And so my buddy would always tell me, oh, you gotta meet my buddy from the north.
00:19:26.000Well, I think it's got growth hormone in it.
00:19:28.000I think that's what it is because there was a time where it was a thing that you would buy in like, I don't know if they do it anymore, but in health food stores, you buy like antler spray.
00:20:20.000The cool thing about the Hevenki up there is it's sustainable what they're doing because they got their own reindeer and they manage them and all that.
00:20:28.000They don't have to import beaver penises.
00:20:59.000According to my friend who's been to China many times, he said it's not even that they really believe that rhino horn is good for your dick, but what it is, it's so hard to get and it's so exotic and illegal that they like having it.
00:21:14.000So they're like, if a businessman comes over your house, would you like some rhino horn?
00:21:58.000Although previously found on the World Anti-Doping Agency's list of banned substances, deer antler spray was removed in 2013 when it was deemed completely safe and legal to consume prior to athletic activity.
00:22:35.000Running around sucking on deer antlers.
00:22:38.000But this farm near my friend John and Jen's place, they bought this farm specifically, these people did, not John and Jen, but these people specifically started farming elk just for their velvet.
00:23:58.000So when you're up there and these folks have these caribou and they're riding them and they're taking care of them, do they shield the other caribou from seeing one of them get slaughtered?
00:24:10.000No, they don't seem to be too worried about it.
00:24:14.000It's a very, like, mutually, you know, symbiotic relationship between the reindeer.
00:24:20.000And the reindeer, they're always getting attacked by wolves and tore up and stuff.
00:24:24.000And they always are coming to the people for protection in those times.
00:24:27.000Not only from wolves, but even from, like, mosquitoes and gnats.
00:24:31.000You know, they'll build big smoky fires.
00:24:33.000So the reindeer know people are their friends and I guess...
00:25:29.000So is this, they have this set up ready to go, and then when they get to a place and they decide to, then they pull out the sticks, they already have them?
00:25:38.000Yeah, in the summer you're moving every three days or so, just following the reindeer herd through the forest, you know.
00:26:50.000So your body just immediately falls into place for it?
00:26:53.000Yeah, all your dopamine, you know, like you'll be out there fishing and every day you'll just be like, yeah, I caught a fish, you know, because you're relying on it so much.
00:27:02.000And whereas like in normal everyday life here in town and stuff, when do you get that excited?
00:27:07.000You know, like you're always, you don't have any schedule.
00:27:10.000So every day you wake up, it's like, well, what do I need to do today?
00:27:14.000And you can kind of, you're just free to choose, you know, you can go try hunting, you can go collect berries, you go find your reindeer and, you know, like there's just a number.
00:27:23.000Of options all available to you, and they're all directly related to your life.
00:27:29.000So you don't have any, you know, there's no money being thrown around out there.
00:27:34.000It's just kind of, I'm hungry, let's go fishing, let's go to that spot because it's cool.
00:29:43.000When they cut a hole and then they somehow or another get that net to go through to the other side.
00:29:49.000You cut two holes and then you get a long stick And you shove it in the hole and slide it then like push the stick under the ice and on the one end you have a string tied to it so you push it and keep trying that until you get it to slide under the ice to the other hole and when you do you pull the stick out of that hole and tie your net On the end of the other one and you can pull the string through.
00:30:14.000The string on the end of the stick, do you catch it with a hook or something and try to pull it up?
00:32:20.000Yeah, that's a fascinating conversation in and of itself because, you know, having been up there and stuff, I'm just like, man, this is an awesome way to live.
00:32:29.000If it was like my friends, my family, in that context, it's like I would probably choose that way of life.
00:34:09.000Especially villages that don't have any reindeer herding connected to them because they kind of...
00:34:13.000Don't have their cultural context to remain connected to.
00:34:20.000So at least in the villages that have reindeer herding, the kids can go out in the summer and live with the reindeer herders and kind of experience that.
00:34:58.000When I read those, like, you know, Empire of the Summer Moon, those types of books, and I grew up with a couple good friends that were Native American, and it really made me think, like, I wonder if you could, seeing how well...
00:35:14.000How much of a difference it makes having that culture intact to some degree.
00:35:19.000Like, I wonder if, say, on Pine Ridge, you know, on one of these reservations, if you could almost replicate something like that.
00:35:29.000Like, if you could maybe take the initiative to, like...
00:35:33.000Restore some buffalo herd, use a bunch of unused land, maybe the, you know, government land or tribal land that's kind of unused.
00:35:42.000Restore a herd and then Kind of bring back those nomadic ways.
00:35:47.000It's not like everybody would have to live that way, but from my own experience, watching places that have that option, you know, that kind of, that are connected to that culture, flourish a lot more than the ones that didn't.
00:36:02.000There were Venki villages with no reindeer herding and ones with, and it was like night and day as far as, and so I was like, I wonder if that would be Anyway, it's something I've thought about.
00:36:11.000It's an interesting thing to think of, but one of the things that happened to the Native Americans in this country is all the pieces of land that they got for reservations sucked.
00:37:11.000And he wrote an amazing book called Coyote America.
00:37:16.000It just really gives you a really interesting understanding of how weird the animal coyotes are and how they've spread out across the entire country.
00:37:27.000But he also wrote a book called, I think it's called Bison Ecology and Bison Diplomacy.
00:37:33.000And maybe this was a paper, it might not have been a book, but essentially the The thought behind this was, these millions of buffalo that you see, when that did happen, that only happened because the Europeans had come and given the plague,
00:37:51.000given the smallpox and all this to Native Americans and wiped out, like, massive numbers of the hunters.
00:38:00.000At one point in time, there was as many as 90% of all the Native Americans died from disease.
00:38:27.000There's a time where the earliest settlers were making their way across the country, in like the 1500s and somewhere around there, and they didn't talk about buffalo.
00:38:38.000They talked about deer, they talked about bear, they talked about all the animals that we know existed, but there was no talking about these massive herds of buffalo.
00:38:47.000That all this seemed to have come after the Native Americans were wiped out, and it kind of makes sense.
00:38:54.000Not wiped out totally, of course, but a large number of them wiped out, whereas these animals, where they're used to being preyed upon, just bred like fucking crazy and developed these huge herds.
00:39:05.000You're talking about, obviously, over a period of hundreds of years, right?
00:39:48.000You know, my friend Remy Warren, he's very famous in the hunting world.
00:39:53.000And he had a show called Apex Predator.
00:39:56.000And he replicated a famous Native American painting.
00:40:01.000In this famous Native American painting, what they would do is they'd kill a coyote and they would skin the coyote and then put the coyote skins on and walk on all fours up to the buffalo and then shoot it with a bow and arrow.
00:40:12.000Because the coyotes were no threat to the buffalo at all.
00:40:16.000So the buffalo would look at a coyote like, you want some of this bitch?
00:40:19.000Like a baby coming up to a grown man trying to pick a fight.
00:40:23.000They weren't worried about the coyotes.
00:40:31.000I've seen those two guys sneaking up on the herd.
00:40:34.000Apparently that's literally what they used to do sometimes.
00:40:36.000They had a bunch of different strategies for how to get close enough to the buffalo.
00:40:40.000Because, you know, if they're using a traditional bow like they had, if you're shooting 40 yards, if you're Aaron Snyder maybe, you know what I mean?
00:42:12.000Yeah, that's part of the reason why it's like, I wonder if now you could kind of...
00:42:16.000Help revitalize some of that culture in a way, you know, like just...
00:42:19.000You'd have to have an enormous piece of land.
00:42:21.000See, the beautiful thing about the way the Native Americans lived before the white settlers came along was that there's no boundaries.
00:42:28.000The worst they had to worry about is other tribes.
00:42:30.000I mean, and what they did to each other was fucking horrific.
00:42:34.000That's the other thing that gets documented in S.E. Gwen's book in Empire of the Summer Moon, because we have this narrative that the white man came along and did terrible things to the Native Americans, and the Native Americans did terrible things to the white man, but no, they were doing terrible things to each other.
00:42:51.000Humans do terrible things to each other, especially fighting over resources, fighting over You know, land and women and buffalo and all the other stuff they fought over.
00:43:44.000It's where they kind of had the hypothesis that if, you know, back in the day the climate wasn't that much warmer up north, it was just there was so much density of animals that they, you know, pooped, built better soil, and grass grew, and it made for a...
00:44:00.000It's a more lush ecosystem than the tundra now.
00:44:02.000And so they've basically fenced in an area, packed it full of musk ox and moose and all that.
00:44:08.000And sure enough, you can see pictures and the grass is growing taller.
00:44:13.000It's a much more life-giving ecosystem than the surrounding area.
00:44:41.000Those are cool projects, any of those ones where they're restoring land and animals.
00:44:47.000It's always interesting to see, you know, like when they have these theories about, you know, I had a guy on last week, his name's Joel Salatin.
00:44:57.000And he was explaining how when you farm and let the animals just live like animals live, you use their manure, they shit on the ground, they eat the grass, and it's actually, not only does it not add carbon To the atmosphere, it actually takes it out.
00:45:14.000Yeah, it actually builds healthy soil.
00:45:16.000If you don't need fertilizer, it's natural.
00:45:19.000There's a whole system that nature's put in place, but when we have these monocrop agricultural setups and these weird factory farm setups, we're just hijacking nature and forcing it to do slave labor.
00:45:47.000And the large scale stuff, I mean, he was kind of saying that it was possible to feed like all of Los Angeles that way, but I'm like, oh, I'm not going to.
00:45:54.000It's like, that's a lot of people, man.
00:46:46.000You step off the airplane into the airport, and it's probably ventilated, and you step off, and you're just like, whoa, it smells like aluminum and just nasty.
00:46:57.000And then you kind of get used to it as you're walking around the airport, and then you step out of the ventilated airport, and it hits you all over again.
00:47:32.000Now you were saying that these people that live in the villages outside of the people that are nomadic, those people live in a real shitty way.
00:48:23.000It's just like being in, like, a zombie land.
00:48:25.000Like, even when the reindeer herds will come from the woods, they'll, like, run into their house, lock the doors, shut everything up, and then you'll just see everybody, like, marching over.
00:52:06.000When they go to the village, they get it, and then they'll go out to the woods, and they'll drink for a few days until it's all gone, and then it's all sober.
00:52:33.000That when you do have people that are largely stripped of their culture and they're like...
00:52:40.000You know, because even the Avenki, as cool as their way of life is, you know, they had...
00:52:45.000You know 70 years of communism where they came in and they collected all the best reindeer herders and said that they were like Kulaks or what you know like the bourgeois because they have too many reindeer sent them all to prison you know like collectivized all these Reindeer herds these family herds they turned into like government herds you know so it's been like their culture is not completely intact And it's like,
00:53:09.000well, there might be enough cause just from that kind of thing to explain some of the alcoholism, but I imagine it's a combination of both, you know?
00:53:18.000Yeah, I've always wondered that about the Native Americans, the same sort of situation, right?
00:53:22.000Like, how much of it is despair from them being removed from their normal nomadic way of life, and how much of it is...
00:53:30.000Just the fact that they don't have the genes to process alcohol because they didn't evolve with alcohol.
00:53:35.000You know, there's that story of Cynthia Ann Parker, who's on the wall out there, who's Quanah Parker's mother.
00:53:42.000She was kidnapped by the Comanche when she was nine.
00:53:45.000And then recaptured by the Texas Rangers, I think it was the Texas Rangers, when she was like 30 with a child.
00:53:54.000And she was begging to go back to the Comanches.
00:54:24.000It's like, right, it's just a juxtaposition of ultimate freedom and this beautiful way of life versus like you're in the village in this little house.
00:54:31.000You know, these people are never going to be good like in Russian society because they live in some remote village.
00:54:39.000And then but they're also the ones that aren't connected to their way of life are also not gonna be great at Venki because they've just lived in this little house and drink you know a bunch so People get caught in that weird in-between place.
00:54:54.000But it seems like even if it's not cultural, there's something that draws people to that way of life that when they live like that, it's very satisfying.
00:55:22.000You know, the interesting thing, like, I don't have, like, a great memory, or, you know, I don't usually have good, very vivid or interesting dreams, but when I'm in the forest, you know, it's like I have all these vivid dreams that seem really meaningful and powerful.
00:55:40.000I remember people that I've long forgot.
00:55:42.000Just because you go so long without distraction, you can really delve into your thoughts and, uh...
00:55:48.000Yeah, it's a fascinating thing to experience, and once you do, you kind of realize, you know, what's missing.
00:55:55.000And it was interesting listening to you talk to, like, Elon Musk, and as the, you know, inevitable march of progress moves forward, it's like we kind of lose things, but we don't actually know what we're losing, you know?
00:56:06.000And so, as far as, like, the natives, and, like, one of the reasons I want to see them preserve their culture and their old ways and take it forward is just as kind of a...
00:56:18.000A memory receptacle so that as things move forward we can still connect, you know, with what we've lost because it is a lot, you know.
00:56:28.000Well, it seems like we're becoming something different.
00:56:30.000It seems like we used to be this thing, this animal that figured out how to use tools and clothes and figured out how to live off the land and figured out how to live in harmony with nature and then we invented electricity.
00:56:48.000Yeah, I mean, then we invented something that allowed you to project media, like whether it's radio at first, and then television, and then we are connected in this way where the world is, it's a smaller place in some ways because you're connected to everybody,
00:57:36.000Of course those are, I mean, it's hard to not get sucked into social media, but it doesn't really speak to you anyway, but it just like absorbs your time.
00:57:46.000It absorbs your time in a negative way though.
00:57:49.000I very rarely get anything positive out of it.
00:57:51.000I get occasionally interesting stories from some of the people that I follow, and I appreciate that, but the actual communication aspect of it, like communicating to me or me to them, like, uh-uh.
00:58:24.000I think that's ironically because podcasts are a digital medium in a lot of ways.
00:58:31.000It's one of the reasons why it resonates with people.
00:58:34.000Because they can tell that we are really having a conversation in a way that people don't have that much.
00:58:41.000Like, you don't really have three-hour conversations with someone where you just don't look at your phone, just sit across from each other and talk to each other and then talk about all kinds of shit.
01:00:09.000Your creative juice is flowing, you know, like you get problems constantly coming up and it's like you gotta think to solve them and they're all, even that's probably how people like developed creativity.
01:00:19.000It's like, how do I catch this moose or how do I, you know, do this or that and uh...
01:00:25.000And you really just feel alive in that way.
01:01:10.000What's actually interesting about native culture and stuff is you have that, but you also have community because you've got multiple teepees or whatever.
01:03:19.000All those things that are like a side effect of the city, the bad food, the sedentary lifestyle, the lack of nutrients, all those things contribute to all those diseases.
01:03:31.000And then people being stacked on top of each other.
01:05:41.000And one of the things that he said that was really interesting, and so what's really funny is this dude who's with him is, I guess you could call him a millennial, and just looks like a reporter.
01:05:53.000He's probably never done this a day in his life, but he's got balls because he went out there and lived with this guy for a little bit and stayed in a tent and the whole deal.
01:06:35.000Yeah, I think it's, I mean, obviously there's a big, for someone that grows up in a city or something, there's like a big hurdle to get over.
01:06:42.000But I think it would be fairly, I don't want to say universal, but I think a lot of people would really connect to it once you experience it.
01:06:51.000Well, my friend Dan, Dan Doty, he actually takes people out, particularly kids, troubled kids, and takes them to the woods for extended periods of time and has them live off the land as a therapy.
01:07:05.000So you take these kids that have affluenza, you know what that is?
01:08:01.000And Dan's just a great guy, and it's a really interesting thing that he sort of felt like he had a calling to introduce people to this sort of way of life as a therapy, as just giving them a new perspective and letting them know that there's actually meaning to this.
01:08:19.000This is not as simple as like, oh, let's go camping and be an asshole.
01:08:24.000We tried a similar thing in Siberia where we took a bunch of the village, like, young guys that were just kind of drinking their childhood away.
01:10:31.000When we were doing Fear Factor, we would get, I mean, I wasn't going through them, but the people that were going through, the casting folks, they would get just fucking stacks and stacks of people trying to get on the show.
01:11:59.000I haven't been in Russia for a few years because I had a few kids and doing the little family thing and I found out I was going on.
01:12:06.000I was like, oh man, I'm a little rusty on all this.
01:12:11.000But mostly my main preparation was trying to put on weight, which is always not that easy for me.
01:12:17.000So I was drinking like as many calories as I could, trying to put on a little extra weight and shooting the bow, you know, getting out there, shooting the recurve, trying to dial in a little bit on that.
01:12:28.000Why'd you choose a recurve over a compound?
01:12:30.000Because you're only allowed to recurve.
01:12:32.000Yeah, it's got to be kind of primitive gear that you get.
01:15:58.000Yeah, those were like, I remember back in my, like, right out of high school, there was a lot of guys who were trying to put on muscle, would drink up weight gain and stuff, and would come in this tub, this huge tub, and you had to put many scoops into the shake.
01:17:10.000Well, that's why Aaron really got into it, because he's such a good bow hunter with a compound that he actually found it to be not as challenging as he needed and wanted, and he wanted to kind of prove to himself and other people that he could do the same with a recurve bow.
01:17:52.000When I go shoot at a target, it's hard to really be fully focused, but man, when you see the squirrel or the rabbit over there, you're so dialed in that I was pretty accurate out there, which was cool.
01:18:04.000Were you using the point of the arrow, the tip of the arrow, were you using that as a guide when you aim?
01:18:36.000You're bringing it way up here and looking down the shaft of the arrow versus a recurve or a compound where your string is much lower in your face.
01:18:44.000Yeah, you're using the arrow to guess the distance between the target and the top of your arrow.
01:18:52.000Bow hunting gives you good experience with Estimating range.
01:18:57.000That's one of the most important things because with the recurve you got a big arc so you're five yards off.
01:19:30.000Like, I would think that you would need fat.
01:19:33.000Well, yeah, you do, and that's why you eat the whole animal, you know, suck the brain out of the rabbit, try to get every bit of fat you can get, and I learned a lot about that out there, because, I mean, I caught a lot of rabbits and squirrels early on, but I still just lost weight as fast as if I wasn't eating,
01:21:28.000That's what we had done in Siberia, too, and it's always, even in, like, moss puddles, it's like this yellow water, but they'll just dip right in and drink out, so.
01:21:35.000Now, when you said you drank a little bit, that was to test, to see if you get the shits?
01:21:38.000Yeah, just to see if I'd get mildly sick, rather than chugging it to begin with.
01:21:42.000Right, so you boiled it first, and then started sipping it a little bit, and then eventually just were drinking it.
01:21:47.000Yeah, although another thing in the cold when you're trying to conserve calories like that, you don't want to drink a lot of cold water, so I'd heat it anyway.
01:22:01.000A tarp was one of the things we took, so I built a little A-frame shelter just out of logs, covered it, chinked it with moss, put the frame over.
01:22:12.000I spent less time on shelter, more time procuring food and hunting, so it was a quick shelter, threw it up.
01:22:19.000I mean, I've lived in a teepee in that weather, so I knew I was going to be fine on the cold as long as I could...
01:22:25.000Provide enough calories to keep my body warm.
01:22:28.000So how many days did it take you before you got an animal?
01:22:32.000Well, I got a rabbit on day one, so that was nice.
01:23:32.000And so I was maybe expecting a bear to come, but I went to sleep the first night I got the moose and woke up and I came out and there were just tracks everywhere.
01:23:41.000Somehow I hadn't woken up, but Wolverine's a lot slyer animal and he had come and Pulled out all the kidney fat.
01:23:48.000You know, I had like a jug of kidney fat that I was just like, no!
01:27:39.000So you pinned him to the ground with the bow?
01:27:42.000Yeah, he had come the night before, and I had seen him behind a bush, and I had my flashlight, and I could see his eyes.
01:27:49.000And I thought about firing an arrow in there, but I was like, surely he's going to come out and I'll get a better shot.
01:27:54.000But he closed his eyes, snuck away, and I never saw him leave from behind the bush.
01:27:59.000I was like, dang it, I missed my opportunity.
01:28:01.000The next day, I saw him again the next night coming down through some shrubs, and I had set up some warning systems around, like cans on string, so I'd hear him coming, and I heard clunk, clunk, clunk.
01:28:13.000I was like, oh gosh, got my bow, went outside.
01:28:15.000Sure enough, he scurried down this hill, went behind a bush, and I just sent my arrow in there this time.
01:29:06.000Did they give you tips on how to film?
01:29:09.000Yeah, they give you film tips before you go out.
01:29:11.000I actually found, like, this wasn't everyone's experience, but I found it was, like, kind of nice to have a camera, because when I'd been, like, fur trapping in Siberia, it's like, you're just alone, alone, and everything you do just feels like nobody's ever going to know about it.
01:29:25.000You know, like, you do all these cool things, and you, no one knows.
01:29:30.000I remember I'd been out there for a few weeks, and I came into this beautiful woods in Siberia, and I remember being like, wow!
01:31:18.000No, but it probably wasn't a lot of sun up there that time of year.
01:31:22.000But that big battery block, and then you got a lot of little packs, battery packs, and it's kind of what restricts where you live is that you have 100 pounds of gear.
01:31:34.000So when you're swinging an axe at this Wolverine, you've got all that on film?
01:32:18.000But I grabbed my bow and arrow and my camera and ran out there, set the camera up, took my shot, and I was like, oh, I didn't grab my quiver.
01:32:26.000And so my first shot, I misjudged the distance and dropped the arrow between his legs.
01:32:31.000I was like, oh, Oh no, I only grabbed one arrow because I grabbed my stupid camera.
01:32:36.000Did he run when the arrow came near him?
01:32:54.000He, like, heard it, knew something was up.
01:32:56.000What had happened is I had set, again, like, those cans up as a warning system, and I heard him, like, in the morning, hit the cans.
01:33:02.000And I figured that would just warn me.
01:33:05.000You know, like, if something hit the cans, it would wake me up, and I could go out and try to hunt it.
01:33:09.000What actually happened is he went through the cans, scared himself, and ran, like, perfectly in my direction, and turned around and looked at the cans.
01:33:18.000Like, broadside to me, like, I came out and it was just a perfect shot.
01:33:22.000But it was 40, I paced it off afterwards, 43 yards.
01:33:25.000And he was such a big animal that I thought he was closer, so I put him at, like, 30 yards, guessing, you know.
01:33:55.000Now when you're doing that, you're waiting a long time, right?
01:33:59.000You're calling them and then you're just sitting there waiting?
01:34:01.000Yeah, literally it was like I'd find a good berry patch, just sit there and eat berries and call, and eat berries and call, and yeah, that's all I would do.
01:34:12.000I think both the bull moose that I saw came into that calling because it would always but it would take them a long time so I'd like call all evening and then they would usually come in in the morning which was interesting so it's not like they they come from miles but yeah they must have come from a long ways away they come like huffing and puffing all in the rut and stuff like yeah it's so cool I just hear it going yeah yeah They're so vocal.
01:34:35.000It's nice you can mimic their voice with your voice.
01:35:41.000Focused on getting one right from the bat like right when they dropped my helicopter off it was like I went out and scouted like where might moose come in?
01:35:50.000No you can't take those but I just put my shelter where the wind would always be blowing my scent out to the sea you know out to the and taking into account all those little things you know like yeah building my shelter away from where moose might walk by so that I wouldn't blow up a spot you know all that kind of stuff.
01:36:29.000So who the fuck made it to 72 days after...
01:36:32.000It was a girl named Wonia, and she and another guy named Nathan made it, you know, his shelter burnt down, and that was kind of the end for him.
01:36:41.000Both of them made it right up to 71, 72 days.
01:38:21.000I had rigged up a little thing that made me so I could cast, and I could cast a long ways out, and it was the funnest fishing I've ever done.
01:39:28.000And it was mostly lake trout, but some of them were over 20 pounds, and you got this homemade rod, and you're like reeling it in, shaking your hands out.
01:43:29.000That's so crazy to rely on a Leatherman, that little tiny-ass blade.
01:43:32.000Yeah, but you got only so many items, you know, and I wanted the wire cutters, I wanted the little saw for craft and stuff, you know, so I figured...
01:43:41.000If my worst problem is that I have a small knife to cut up a big game, I'll be pretty happy.
01:43:46.000Was there anything that you wished you brought that you didn't?
01:43:49.000Yeah, I would have taken probably a gill net instead of my saw.
01:43:53.000I took a saw and I almost never used it.
01:43:56.000You thought you would use it for trees?
01:43:57.000Yeah, I just thought it would just be a calorie saver rather than using your axe, but it was kind of a risk I took and it ended up not being worthwhile.
01:44:45.000Did you think about constructing arrows?
01:44:47.000Yeah, I thought, and I was thinking, uh, by the time I got the moose, you know, it was early enough that I didn't really need to make arrows, but I was thinking, if I want to shoot more at squirrels, I better make some arrows.
01:47:12.000Then I was just on defense mode trying to set up all these cans so that when I walked through, it'd clank and then I'd wake up and chase it away.
01:47:22.000Yeah, I'd be like, fuck, shut that camera off.
01:47:23.000We're going commando on this fucking Wolverine.
01:50:32.000It felt like just a demon lifted off my back.
01:50:35.000It's just like, you know, the whole time you're like, you're going to starve, you're going to starve, you're going to starve.
01:50:38.000You're just like trying to fight this thing off.
01:50:40.000And then, man, when you shot that and it was like three hours, I tracked it and I had lost its blood trail and I lost its foot trails because it was like hard ground.
01:50:52.000And I was just like, no, I cannot lose this moose.
01:50:55.000But I was like, well, I hit it in the lung, I'm sure.
01:50:58.000So I think it's going to stay downhill.
01:52:15.000Like, you hit it, but it's still alive, and then you're hoping you can get that moose?
01:52:21.000I've lost, I don't know if you've ever done that, where I've hit a deer, you know, you wait 45 minutes, and then you go out there, and then you see it stand up in front of you and run off.
01:52:30.000And at that point, it's almost impossible to find because it's already bled out mostly, and I've lost you that way.
01:54:43.000It's so indescribable, just seeing something.
01:54:45.000Even if you just stumble into any kind of animal that's in the wild, and you realize this is how this thing's species has been existing for hundreds of thousands of years.
01:54:57.000When we were doing that project trying to get guys to stop drinking out in Siberia, we had a little hunting cabin we were based at, and I woke up one morning and we had a stupid dog that just barked at everything, and I just hear the dog going, and I was like,
01:57:14.000Well, they were all the Venki people, and we ate the heart, but they have a whole ritual when they shoot a bear.
01:57:23.000Because they're so wormy up there, you can eat them in a serious situation, but...
01:57:30.000They cut the head off and put the eyes under a rock because they didn't want the spirit to see who got it.
01:57:38.000And then they put the other parts of it in the river so that it floats down to a different village so that The bear thinks those are the people that got it.
01:58:47.000I haven't experienced this, but I know that some people who eat bear have cut open the bear and seen the worms literally crawling underneath the skin.
02:00:57.000Well, the dogs seem pretty happy, but they also go out in super cold weather and this dog will have melted a big hole in the snow and it snowed on top of it and it pops up out of this hole.
02:02:17.000Like a 300 pound caribou is really big.
02:02:20.000Not the domestic ones, they're probably a little smaller.
02:02:23.000I don't think they get that heavy, maybe 250. But they're strong, man.
02:02:31.000There'll be some cool times where you're just out in the middle of this field in Siberia.
02:02:35.000You know those swamps have that tuft of grass that you walk on and you're carrying your reindeer along.
02:02:43.000He's in tow maybe and then you get to this big flowing river with ice and everything.
02:02:49.000Jump on your reindeer and just hope he can make it through without stumbling and you're like on the back of this reindeer like feels life or death if you fall in this river you know and you just hang on to him and trust that he won't stumble you know and Make it across this river, pull up on the other shore,
02:03:14.000Like I was saying, it's interesting to live in a modern world and see the things that suck my time and how in some way it's very unsatisfying, the social media thing, but it's so engrossing.
02:03:28.000And I miss it, and those are the reasons why I always think, man, how could you get this a little more in our modern society?
02:03:40.000That was the initial catalyst for why I thought about it.
02:03:44.000I wonder if something like that would be able to be revived.
02:03:48.000Now, after you've had all these wild experiences, do you long for more?
02:03:52.000Is it something like where you go live a normal life for a while and you start getting an itch?
02:04:27.000But, yeah, I try to incorporate as many lessons as I can, you know, and, like, anything that keeps you connected to, you know, how we were designed to be.
02:04:36.000You're just connected to the land, to nature.
02:05:15.000Yeah, I did a class in Ontario this winter, you know, taught some folks just general survival skills and stuff.
02:05:22.000When you do that, how does that set up?
02:05:25.000Do you give a lot of specific amount of time?
02:05:28.000Yeah, the classes we're going to have in July, we'll just ride horses up into the wilderness in Idaho and Spend a week up there.
02:05:37.000And a lot of it is teaching, you know, there's definitely hard skills, all the hard skills.
02:05:41.000There's also a lot of just mental, what's the mental framework that you need to have to survive, you know, and to be resilient and stuff like that.
02:05:51.000And that's a whole fascinating topic in and of itself, you know, like you get a...
02:05:56.000You dig deep when you're out by yourself.
02:05:58.000It's amazing how deep your thoughts go.
02:06:02.000When you say mental skills, what do you teach people in terms of mental skills?
02:06:07.000If someone wanted to prepare to go There's a few things that would be really helpful.
02:06:15.000One, you need to practice gratitude, right?
02:06:17.000It's like just being thankful for what you have, even in a rough situation, is key, you know?
02:06:26.000And that can come from having like perspective, you know, like reading.
02:06:31.000If you read the Gulag Archipelago, it makes it hard to complain about your particular situation.
02:06:37.000And so having like perspective like that, I think is good.
02:06:43.000For me, it was good knowing my family history.
02:06:46.000You know, they're like Assyrians who got, you know, in the Armenian genocide kind of got wiped out.
02:06:51.000And so they have brutal stories of what happened to them.
02:06:54.000And it's like, oh, it puts all my suffering in perspective.
02:06:56.000And I see that the people who lived through that...
02:07:00.000Came out joyful people somehow and, you know, and so resilient, resilient people.
02:07:53.000I think of people that I'd long forgot about, you know, like, and, like, people like, oh, I should call that guy and make it right with that guy.
02:08:00.000But I think if you had a lot of, like, issues that you'd never dealt through, you'd guarantee you they're going to come up out there, you know?
02:08:33.000No, basically I've thought, like, what is it that I've learned over the years that's allowed me to do, you know, to be successful or to do...
02:08:43.000To thrive in some of those situations.
02:09:02.000Know what, you know, I've experienced what people in the wilderness really do to live and like having those skills, hopefully being able to impart the, you know, mental and also physical skills to thrive.
02:09:20.000So somebody just going out in the woods, a lot of people haven't spent a week in the woods just going out there and seeing what it's all like, like what it's like to scout out a new place and be like, okay, where am I going to build my shelter?
02:10:06.000And in Idaho, if COVID's still a thing and there's a limit of ten people, then I guess it'll bring eight and it'll be me and my brother and we'll teach them what we know.
02:12:05.000You know, restoring some reindeer herds to people who have lost their reindeer and want to go over and kind of check on that project, see how they're progressing, see if they're, if they are, you know?
02:12:18.000And like, it's like that type of thing.
02:12:21.000If I see that people are making progress and like building their herd back or making some kind of progress, then I'll try to support them more and like, you know, feed into that.
02:12:31.000So there's things that I want to remain connected to.
02:12:36.000I'm also really interested in like, I like all those like restoring, like when the people I hear about restoring elk to the out east or restoring buffalo herds, all that kind of stuff to me is pretty exciting.
02:12:49.000So we'll just see, I don't know, see where it all goes.