The Joe Rogan Experience - September 16, 2020


Joe Rogan Experience #1537 - Lex Fridman


Episode Stats

Length

3 hours and 1 minute

Words per Minute

159.87482

Word Count

28,948

Sentence Count

2,584

Misogynist Sentences

37

Hate Speech Sentences

33


Summary

Joe and Bex talk about Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and Eric Clapton. They also discuss the new streaming service, Spotify, and what it means to be a rock and roll musician in the 21st century. Joe also talks about his love of the blues and the history of Jimi's iconic guitar playing. Bex talks about how he met Jimi and how he got to where he is today. And of course, they talk about the new music streaming service and how it's going to change the way we listen to music in the future. They also talk about what it's like to be in a band with a legendary guitarist like Jimi, and why it's a good thing he didn't have a record deal with a record label. You won't want to miss it! Also, the guys talk about how they met and fell in love with Jimi in the early days of his career, and how Jimi was one of the most underrated guitarists of all time. Enjoy this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience! Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Theme by Mavus White. Music by PSOVOD and tyops. Music by Nordgroove. Artwork by Jeff Kaale. The 500 is a production of Native Creative and is a proud member of the Native Creative Podcasts Podcast Network. Thank you for listening and supporting the work of our sponsors, Native Creative, Inc. and Native Creative. We make great music, and thank you so much for all the support, support and love, support, and support of the work you're all of your support, it means a lot of work goes out to all of our artists get a chance to be heard everywhere they get the chance to hear the music they deserve it. Thank you, thank you, and we really appreciate it. -Joe Rogan, Thank you Joe Rogans, Thank You, and much more. -- Thank you to you, Joe, for all of you're the best of the support we can do the work that's done, and all the love you're getting back, thanks you'll get back, it's so much love, and thanks you're so much of it's worth it, thanks back, and it's good, thanks, you're amazing. XOXO. xoxo, EJ, Sarah, Sarah and I appreciate it, bye, bye.


Transcript

00:00:12.000 Hello, Bex.
00:00:13.000 Hey, Joe.
00:00:14.000 Before we get started, how about that Colder Wall guy that I just played for you?
00:00:18.000 How crazy is it that he was 21 when he made that song?
00:00:21.000 Is he close to 21 right now?
00:00:23.000 He's 25 now.
00:00:23.000 Yeah, he sounds like later Johnny Cash.
00:00:26.000 Like Johnny Cash when he did Hurt.
00:00:28.000 Yeah.
00:00:29.000 You know?
00:00:29.000 Like a pain, a depth, a richness of his voice.
00:00:33.000 So badass.
00:00:33.000 It's weird.
00:00:34.000 Like, how do you get that at 21?
00:00:39.000 I want to see him in like 14. He probably developed early.
00:00:43.000 Probably went through some shit in his life.
00:00:46.000 There's gotta be some whiskey in that story somewhere.
00:00:48.000 Oh yeah.
00:00:49.000 He had to go through some real shit to have that voice and just the sensibility, just the mindset of those songs.
00:01:00.000 You know that Kate McKinnon song?
00:01:02.000 Jesus Christ.
00:01:03.000 You have to listen to the whole song.
00:01:04.000 It's crazy.
00:01:07.000 Yeah, one of the things I hope with your Spotify thing is that you'll be able to play songs.
00:01:13.000 We want to, but it's weird.
00:01:15.000 It's like they've left open...
00:01:17.000 They're trying to figure it out, right?
00:01:18.000 All this stuff is basically...
00:01:20.000 There's a lot of work in progress.
00:01:22.000 We're trying to figure it out.
00:01:23.000 Listen, my dream here, Spotify, if you're listening, my dream as a little boy is to play Stevie Ray Vaughan or Jimi Hendrix on the Joe Rogan Experience and not be nervous about it being taken down or something because I don't have the rights to cover the song or whatever.
00:01:43.000 I wonder how that works for the artist.
00:01:45.000 Well, for someone like Stevie Ray Vaughan or Jimi Hendrix, they're both dead, so it would be the estate of the artist, which oftentimes, I believe, probably makes it more slippery.
00:01:52.000 Yeah.
00:01:53.000 Because then you're dealing with people that, you know, kind of own it as a commodity rather than the actual artist itself.
00:02:00.000 But there's a difference between, like, the Beatles and then the Stevie Ray Vaughan.
00:02:03.000 Because whoever owns Stevie Ray Vaughan, you know, is like a bad...
00:02:08.000 Like mother effer.
00:02:10.000 You know it's not like corporate.
00:02:12.000 You would hope so, but you never know, man.
00:02:14.000 I mean, he might have had an ex-wife who sold it.
00:02:17.000 Who knows?
00:02:18.000 Anyway, Spotify, please make it happen.
00:02:21.000 I almost had the opportunity to drive Steve Ray Vaughan once when I was driving limos.
00:02:24.000 Oh, wow.
00:02:25.000 Yeah, man, but he wouldn't take limos.
00:02:27.000 He would always take a cab.
00:02:29.000 So they'd have a limo, and the limo would pick up everybody else.
00:02:33.000 Like, all the other band members, all the other people, they would get in a limo.
00:02:37.000 And Steve Ray Vaughn would get in a cab.
00:02:39.000 Because he's that motherfucker.
00:02:41.000 Yeah, just for the first time, actually.
00:02:43.000 Yeah, he is.
00:02:44.000 He's real.
00:02:45.000 He's a genuine human being.
00:02:47.000 Just for the first time, I listened to an interview with him.
00:02:51.000 I've never heard Jimi Hendrix really talk or Steve Ray Vaughan talk before this interview.
00:02:56.000 And he was really drunk in the interview.
00:02:58.000 And then I realized that there was a man behind the music.
00:03:03.000 There's some pain.
00:03:05.000 There's some drinking and just...
00:03:09.000 I don't know, demons that he was running from.
00:03:11.000 I think there's a disconnect that you almost have to have from the normal mind to create that kind of sound.
00:03:22.000 There's some Hendrix songs, like Voodoo Child is a great one, right?
00:03:28.000 Just the sound in that guitar is so, he's so out there.
00:03:34.000 He's so wild.
00:03:35.000 You know, there's like a famous story where Eric Clapton first saw Steve Rayvon play, and he was like, what in the fuck am I doing?
00:03:44.000 Can you imagine as good as Eric Clapton is seeing, did I say Steve Rayvon or Jimi Hendrix?
00:03:50.000 I meant Jimi Hendrix.
00:03:51.000 I meant Jimi Hendrix.
00:03:51.000 No, you said Jimi Hendrix.
00:03:52.000 Did I? Okay.
00:03:53.000 But Eric Clapton went and saw Jimi Hendrix play live and he was such a talent that everybody else was like, what are we doing?
00:04:05.000 Yeah, the cool thing is, I mean, I don't know if you know, but Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix both play a Fender Strat, so it's the same guitar.
00:04:13.000 So I can imagine, and then Eric Clapton has this warm, smooth tone, and I can just imagine Eric Clapton singing, like, how the fuck did he get that sound out of that thing?
00:04:25.000 How did you pull that off?
00:04:26.000 Well, still, Eric Clapton has some amazing fucking songs and amazing sound.
00:04:31.000 I mean, Layla, that song Layla?
00:04:34.000 God damn, is that a good song.
00:04:36.000 Both acoustic and electric.
00:04:38.000 He has an acoustic version.
00:04:39.000 Oh, really?
00:04:40.000 MTV used to do this thing.
00:04:41.000 Unplugged?
00:04:42.000 Unplugged.
00:04:43.000 Yeah.
00:04:43.000 So he played like Tears in Heaven, which is a harbor.
00:04:47.000 Lost his son, right?
00:04:49.000 Yeah.
00:04:49.000 His son fell off of a balcony.
00:04:52.000 Yeah.
00:04:52.000 There's so much pain in that song.
00:04:54.000 Oof.
00:04:54.000 And then there's the badass songs.
00:04:56.000 What is it?
00:04:57.000 The doo-doo-doo.
00:04:58.000 Cocaine.
00:05:01.000 Yeah, I mean, the thing about his music versus Hendrix is it was brilliant.
00:05:08.000 I mean, Eric Clapton is, I shouldn't say was because he's still alive, is a brilliant musician.
00:05:14.000 Brilliant.
00:05:15.000 But...
00:05:16.000 The sound falls in line, meaning it all seems brilliant and purposeful and uniform, and the songs are amazing, but it falls in line.
00:05:30.000 Whereas, you know...
00:05:35.000 The shit that Hendrix would do.
00:05:40.000 He was out there.
00:05:41.000 It was like this new thing, man.
00:05:44.000 He was gone.
00:05:45.000 And he was fucking in his 20s.
00:05:47.000 He died.
00:05:48.000 He was 27 years old, which is so crazy.
00:05:51.000 And technique-wise, I mean, I know you don't play guitar, but technique-wise, he just didn't follow any conventions.
00:05:57.000 He had this thumb, he put it over the top, and it was messy.
00:06:01.000 And the way he played rhythm wasn't how anyone played rhythm.
00:06:04.000 It wasn't like three chords.
00:06:06.000 It was three chords, but every time he played those chords, they're always different.
00:06:11.000 They always messed with it.
00:06:12.000 He always threw in a little chaos.
00:06:15.000 And there are songs like Machine Gun.
00:06:16.000 I don't know if you know that one.
00:06:17.000 Yes, yes.
00:06:18.000 I love that song.
00:06:19.000 Just, like, where did that come from?
00:06:21.000 There's so many songs.
00:06:23.000 Like, If Six Was Nine.
00:06:25.000 Like, that song.
00:06:26.000 Like, what is that?
00:06:27.000 What is that?
00:06:28.000 A lot of it is drugs.
00:06:32.000 That's the truth.
00:06:34.000 That's the sad truth.
00:06:38.000 Yes and no.
00:06:40.000 I mean, it's sad in that he's not here anymore.
00:06:44.000 But it's not sad in that what he accomplished in his 27 years on this planet, still to this day, haunts guitarists.
00:06:56.000 If you ask professional guitarists, there was a million brilliant guitarists.
00:07:01.000 I mean, there's so many.
00:07:02.000 Some people are big fans of Eddie Van Halen.
00:07:04.000 I think to this day, Stevie Ray Vaughan's version of Voodoo Child is...
00:07:08.000 You always have to give the best credit to the original, which is Jimmy.
00:07:13.000 But Steve Ray Vaughan's voodoo trial is fucking amazing.
00:07:18.000 And it's him.
00:07:19.000 It's clearly him.
00:07:20.000 Yeah, he's playing it with his tongue.
00:07:23.000 I mean, I've said it a million times.
00:07:25.000 I named this podcast.
00:07:26.000 I stole the name from Jimi Hendrix.
00:07:28.000 The Joe Rogan experience.
00:07:30.000 It came from the Jimi Hendrix experience.
00:07:32.000 Yeah, nothing like him.
00:07:34.000 I've just always been oddly attracted to him.
00:07:38.000 That's a weird word to use, but that's what it is.
00:07:40.000 Attracted to his music.
00:07:43.000 There's something about him that just always resonated with me.
00:07:47.000 The old studio, I had the Hendrix mug shot up.
00:07:51.000 He also represents the 60s.
00:07:53.000 Yeah.
00:07:54.000 And also this psychedelic thing, experience.
00:07:58.000 Not in this cheesy way, but in a really out there way.
00:08:05.000 Yeah, genuine.
00:08:06.000 Genuine, yeah.
00:08:07.000 Yeah, authentic.
00:08:08.000 I mean, the fun tension, because you're a health guy, you talk about how to be healthy, how to almost have a balance, but then at the same time you say that you celebrate the self-destruction that led to the genius of Jimi Hendrix.
00:08:26.000 It's not that I celebrate the self-destruction.
00:08:28.000 The self-destruction is an unfortunate aspect of that path.
00:08:33.000 And there's a lot of weirdness to Jimi Hendrix's death.
00:08:37.000 I don't know if you know.
00:08:37.000 He had a gangster manager who apparently had him kidnapped just so that he could rescue him and convince Jimi that he was his savior.
00:08:47.000 There's a book that was written on it that accuses this manager of killing Jimi Hendrix.
00:08:54.000 And saying that they also threw his girlfriend off a roof and she did either jump off a roof or was thrown off a roof and died shortly afterwards because she knew too much or whatever.
00:09:06.000 Who the fuck knows?
00:09:07.000 It was one of Hendrick's bodyguards or someone who worked for the manager that wrote the story, but...
00:09:13.000 The thing about that path, the path of drugs and destruction, it's been a path of many of my idols, whether it's Kinison or Richard Pryor or even Hicks.
00:09:28.000 You know, Hicks died from cancer, but a lot of that is probably attributable to him.
00:09:34.000 Chain smoking and just a lot of drugs and stuff when he was younger and just destroyed his life.
00:09:40.000 And then it's also like pancreatic cancer is a genetic thing as well.
00:09:43.000 You never really know what's causing pancreatic cancer.
00:09:48.000 Your conversation with Mike Tyson actually symbolizes this in a really interesting way for me because here you have one of the greatest fighters ever who somehow found inner peace through the whole marijuana thing but just the way he was behaving just was positivity and just this good vibes putting him out there and yet he now for at least a brief moment in his life rediscovered the darkness like I was watching
00:10:18.000 your podcast with him and the moment when you said like you were like having another level chat he just took you like a few levels up by saying like that you know when he thinks about hurting people sometimes it's orgasmic yeah and you you try to laugh it off but there's like memes of he's like no I'm serious Well,
00:10:40.000 I mean, I was laughing.
00:10:42.000 I mean, I wasn't really trying to laugh it off.
00:10:44.000 I was laughing at the madness of it.
00:10:46.000 What did that make you feel?
00:10:46.000 By the way, Donald Trump retweeted a clip of that.
00:10:49.000 I don't know what to make.
00:10:52.000 Politically, I don't know what the context of that.
00:10:54.000 But he retweeted Mike Tyson saying it was erotic.
00:10:59.000 Trump's like an old comedian who just happens to be president.
00:11:03.000 Really.
00:11:04.000 I mean, the same kind of behavior that a comedian has.
00:11:07.000 The timing, like his timing, like when the thing about Hillary Clinton, you'd be in jail.
00:11:12.000 Remember that?
00:11:13.000 The timing of that, when they were doing a debate and she said something about him being...
00:11:19.000 It's painful.
00:11:20.000 I went back and watched those debates.
00:11:22.000 It's painful to watch.
00:11:23.000 It makes me, as somebody who wants to see truth and positivity win out in the world, it pains me to think about the debates between Biden and Trump.
00:11:36.000 I don't think they're going to happen.
00:11:38.000 You don't think so?
00:11:39.000 No.
00:11:39.000 I think the people in the Democratic Party are too wise.
00:11:45.000 I think it's possible that Kamala Harris might debate Pence.
00:11:49.000 I think that's probably...
00:11:50.000 And I think she'll do really well against Pence.
00:11:53.000 Pence is a bit robotic and careful and evangelical and super Christian.
00:11:59.000 I think she'll probably do very well in those debates.
00:12:03.000 Well, there's no audience.
00:12:04.000 See, that's the thing, man.
00:12:06.000 Those debates, a lot of it was like getting them zingers in.
00:12:10.000 Yeah.
00:12:10.000 I think Trump needs an audience.
00:12:12.000 Like a comedian, you said.
00:12:14.000 I think he needs the crowd to work off of.
00:12:20.000 How do you say Donald Trump Jr.'s girlfriend's name?
00:12:24.000 Kimberly...
00:12:25.000 How do you say it?
00:12:26.000 Like Guilfoyle, I think?
00:12:27.000 Is that Guilfoyle?
00:12:29.000 The way it's written is like, why are we pretending that this is the correct use of these letters?
00:12:35.000 Because you shouldn't put all those letters together like that.
00:12:39.000 Like, fix that.
00:12:40.000 But there's a great video that someone put together, and I retweeted it, or reposted it, of her screaming this message to an empty room.
00:12:52.000 And then there's a beaver on the top of a mountain.
00:12:55.000 Yeah, I saw it.
00:13:02.000 This is the thing that happens.
00:13:05.000 The internet is amazing.
00:13:07.000 The internet's the best.
00:13:08.000 It's undefeated.
00:13:09.000 There's a thing about doing stuff in, like, audiences.
00:13:14.000 Like, here it is.
00:13:14.000 Play this!
00:13:15.000 Play this!
00:13:16.000 Because it's so good!
00:13:17.000 Your destiny!
00:13:19.000 You are capable!
00:13:21.000 Oh, this isn't the right one.
00:13:22.000 Oh, it's still just...
00:13:23.000 Find it on my Instagram.
00:13:25.000 It's on my Instagram.
00:13:27.000 Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
00:13:31.000 But it's so funny because it's like people are doing stand-up these days on Zoom.
00:13:37.000 And it's bad.
00:13:38.000 Like really good comics look terrible doing stand-up to no audience.
00:13:43.000 Yeah, it's just not how comedy is supposed to be.
00:13:45.000 It's like...
00:13:48.000 It's like, you know how you have a battery and you're charging a battery?
00:13:51.000 You have to put something on the...
00:13:52.000 Here, play it real quick.
00:13:55.000 Isn't it so good?
00:13:56.000 Leaders and fighters for freedom and liberty and the American dream, the best is yet to come!
00:14:16.000 There's something about a beaver screaming at the top of his life.
00:14:22.000 On the top of a mountain.
00:14:24.000 It's so perfect.
00:14:25.000 Yeah.
00:14:25.000 It's so perfect.
00:14:26.000 It's 2020 in a nutshell right there.
00:14:28.000 But it's so perfect.
00:14:29.000 That beaver by himself on the top of that mountain just screaming.
00:14:39.000 The timing is genius.
00:14:41.000 It's amazing.
00:14:42.000 Whoever made that, thank you.
00:14:46.000 But, you know, there's comics that are doing stand-up in these Zoom things, and it's like, you know how you charge battery, you have to connect the positive, and then you have to connect the negative.
00:14:58.000 You know, you have to, there's two cables that you have to connect the two of them together.
00:15:03.000 If you only connect one, it doesn't work.
00:15:06.000 Well, that's how it is with stand-up.
00:15:08.000 You have to have an audience.
00:15:09.000 It's one of those art forms that you need to have a reaction.
00:15:13.000 The people have to be there.
00:15:14.000 You feed off of them.
00:15:16.000 You create comedy with them.
00:15:18.000 And in a lot of ways, one of the things that Trump does outside of these speeches and get everybody excited about things, he's doing stand-up.
00:15:28.000 He tells jokes.
00:15:29.000 He talks shit.
00:15:30.000 He gets laughs.
00:15:33.000 There was an interview with one of the debates.
00:15:36.000 You've said terrible things about women.
00:15:38.000 You've called women pigs.
00:15:40.000 You've called them this.
00:15:40.000 And he goes, wait, wait, wait.
00:15:42.000 Only Rosie O'Donnell.
00:15:43.000 He says this and the audience goes crazy and laughs.
00:15:45.000 They're told to not respond.
00:15:47.000 They're told to not respond.
00:15:48.000 The audience are told not to laugh.
00:15:50.000 They can't help it.
00:15:51.000 He just nailed it.
00:15:52.000 He fucking nailed it.
00:15:53.000 And it's like a comic.
00:15:55.000 Old comic.
00:15:56.000 And I don't know if he's the same guy as he was back then.
00:16:00.000 Just honestly.
00:16:01.000 Just being honest.
00:16:01.000 The same way I would talk about a fighter.
00:16:03.000 Like, father time wins.
00:16:06.000 Every time.
00:16:07.000 If you listen to interviews of Donald Trump, maybe from the 90s...
00:16:12.000 He's a different guy.
00:16:13.000 Yes.
00:16:13.000 He's much sharper.
00:16:15.000 I mean, I don't want to be ageist, but...
00:16:18.000 It's not ageist.
00:16:19.000 It's just reality.
00:16:21.000 I mean, no one gets better when they're 100. It's not like, the guy's 100 and all of a sudden he runs faster, he talks better, he's reading more and writing more, he sees better.
00:16:30.000 No, we're dying.
00:16:31.000 We're all dying slowly, okay?
00:16:32.000 And...
00:16:33.000 I don't know what kind of pressure being the president is, but I can only imagine.
00:16:39.000 It's almost unmanageable.
00:16:40.000 And he's managed it better than anybody I've ever seen.
00:16:42.000 But the reality is it's still pressure.
00:16:45.000 It's still father time wears on you.
00:16:48.000 The river beats down the rocks and smooths them out.
00:16:52.000 There's no way around it.
00:16:53.000 It's just it is what it is.
00:16:55.000 So whether or not he's still got that kind of timing...
00:16:58.000 That's a real question, but if him and Biden get into a debate situation and he hits Biden with a couple of zingers like that, I mean, I don't...
00:17:09.000 So how do you think Biden might get out of the debates?
00:17:11.000 He's gonna have to get out of the debates.
00:17:13.000 I mean, if they're smart, if I was a democratic strategist, there's no fucking way I would let him debate.
00:17:18.000 Like, listen, we're winning because it's the only reason why people are winning.
00:17:22.000 The only reason is because they want Trump out of office.
00:17:25.000 You could have...
00:17:26.000 If Pete Buttigieg was in the position that Biden was in...
00:17:32.000 It would be, I mean, he would have a much stronger response from people, right?
00:17:40.000 Young person, speaks well.
00:17:43.000 If Tulsi Gabbard was in that position, dude, she could be president.
00:17:46.000 I know the Democrats, for whatever fucking reason, didn't want her to be, but if she got into that position when she was debating, if she was debating with Trump and people saw her and saw her record Saw the fact that she served overseas twice, saw the fact she's been a congresswoman for six years, saw how well she speaks,
00:18:02.000 how honest she is.
00:18:03.000 And just the integrity of the character that you can see in the way she carries herself.
00:18:07.000 100%.
00:18:07.000 See, one of the big problems is the Democratic nomination process happened before coronavirus.
00:18:14.000 Yeah.
00:18:14.000 So, like, we were in kind of a lack.
00:18:16.000 The economy was doing well.
00:18:18.000 You know, things are going just regular.
00:18:20.000 And so you kind of, the boring, generic candidate won out.
00:18:23.000 What we need now is a great, like, inspiring leader.
00:18:27.000 Yeah.
00:18:27.000 Not somebody who is, you know, Joe Biden's strategy currently is to just sit back and don't say anything and let Trump destroy himself.
00:18:35.000 Well, every time he says something, he jumbles his words up and he fucks things up and he forgets where he is and it's like, you know, he's had multiple brain surgeries.
00:18:45.000 I didn't know that.
00:18:46.000 Yeah, I can play you some shit.
00:18:50.000 I mean, it's kind of crazy.
00:18:52.000 Hey, Jamie, have I ever played you this one?
00:18:54.000 I'm going to send this to you, Jamie.
00:18:56.000 But the...
00:18:57.000 Look...
00:18:58.000 But the contrast with Andrew Yang...
00:19:00.000 I don't know if you listen to Andrew Yang these days, but he's...
00:19:03.000 Andrew's teaming with ideas, with energy, with excitement, with a passion of different ways of things we can do.
00:19:12.000 That's what we need now, is an inspiring leader that unites.
00:19:18.000 Brett Weinstein is on his big, as he talked about on your podcast, like uniting, having basically a center-left and a center-right candidate, just uniting the nation.
00:19:29.000 Yeah, I'm sending this to you right now, Jamie.
00:19:31.000 Sorry.
00:19:32.000 Uh-oh.
00:19:32.000 But yeah, so uniting the nation versus dividing.
00:19:36.000 Andrew's a really interesting guy.
00:19:39.000 He's not the standard...
00:19:42.000 What you're looking for from a guy who's running for president.
00:19:48.000 One of the biggest things he's known for is universal basic income.
00:19:51.000 He's basically saying, hey, guys, look, automation is coming, and there's going to be a lot of people out of work.
00:19:56.000 And how bright does he look now that we have seen that not automation, but the pandemic took out so many of these jobs, and we did need universal basic income.
00:20:06.000 It really was important.
00:20:07.000 And that same sort of a situation could happen with...
00:20:13.000 I mean, from what we're dealing with now to what we could be dealing with with another pandemic plus automation, you're going to see a lot of people that are out of work.
00:20:21.000 And it went from a place of people wanting economic prosperity to, hey, let's just make sure that people don't lose their houses.
00:20:28.000 Let's make sure that people can eat.
00:20:30.000 Let's make sure that people have a roof over their head.
00:20:32.000 And that's really where we were in the middle of the pandemic.
00:20:37.000 But the big thing, whether you agree on automation, universal basic income or not, it doesn't matter.
00:20:42.000 The point is, besides UBI, he's a source of a giant number of ideas.
00:20:47.000 And he presents them in a way, not saying Republicans are wrong and Democrats are right.
00:20:52.000 But saying, let's together figure out which of these ideas are right.
00:20:56.000 Yes.
00:20:56.000 He basically has an idea for everything.
00:20:58.000 The purple belt.
00:20:59.000 Yes!
00:21:00.000 Brilliant!
00:21:01.000 That's even more brilliant than UBI. Now in this divisive time of policing, have every cop get a purple belt.
00:21:08.000 Yeah, at least a purple belt.
00:21:09.000 Yeah.
00:21:10.000 Yeah, from a legit Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu instructor.
00:21:12.000 Maybe blue belt, second stripe, like learn a triangle.
00:21:17.000 Yeah, well, know how to defend yourself.
00:21:18.000 I mean, there's so many ridiculous videos I was watching.
00:21:20.000 There's an account I follow on Instagram called Police Posts.
00:21:25.000 It's basically a police-oriented Instagram page.
00:21:29.000 It's like four cops, educating cops, and talking about situations.
00:21:34.000 And they show a lot of situations where cops overestimate their ability to handle things physically, and they get fucked up.
00:21:42.000 And one of them today was this guy gets rolled over and beaten up.
00:21:46.000 He just doesn't know what he's doing.
00:21:47.000 And that wouldn't happen if you were talking about someone that's a purple belt.
00:21:51.000 Yeah.
00:21:51.000 I heard, I don't know if this is true, but I heard in some places like New York, rear naked chokes...
00:21:58.000 They're illegal, yeah.
00:21:59.000 Illegal now.
00:22:00.000 Which is like...
00:22:02.000 Ridiculous.
00:22:02.000 Which we should expand the jiu-jitsu training to the people in government too, because it doesn't make any sense.
00:22:10.000 It's one of the most safe ways to pacify somebody.
00:22:13.000 Well, I think a lot of it had to do with the Eric Gardner situation, right?
00:22:17.000 Where that guy got...
00:22:18.000 But the thing about the Eric Gardner situation is they should have never fucked with that guy.
00:22:23.000 And they should have never manhandled him in the first place.
00:22:26.000 Forget about choking him.
00:22:28.000 They should have left him alone.
00:22:29.000 All the guy was doing was hanging out in the corner selling loose cigarettes.
00:22:33.000 Now...
00:22:33.000 Oh, I have a cough button.
00:22:35.000 Hold on, let me try it.
00:22:38.000 Did it work?
00:22:38.000 Better.
00:22:38.000 Jamie?
00:22:39.000 Sorry, but the other mic picked it up.
00:22:42.000 We should press it like in unison, yeah.
00:22:45.000 Contrast this idea that they were going after this guy for loose cigarettes based on what happened after the George Floyd protests where people were smashing windows and stealing things out of stores and the cops were just standing there.
00:22:59.000 Right?
00:22:59.000 Because shit got so crazy that they let people just loot and smash windows and steal things.
00:23:04.000 Meanwhile, they killed a guy who was just selling loose cigarettes.
00:23:08.000 All he was doing is standing there.
00:23:09.000 He presented no threat.
00:23:11.000 He was just trying to make a couple bucks selling cigarettes, and they grabbed him, threw him to the ground, and were choking him.
00:23:17.000 I think that, in public perception, So what's the solution to that?
00:23:21.000 How do you get those cops out, those humans out?
00:23:25.000 I think you need way better training, and you need a lot of training.
00:23:28.000 And Jocko Willink talked about it, and he had a great position.
00:23:31.000 He thinks that they should be spending 20% of their time training.
00:23:34.000 And this idea of defunding the cops, he goes, no, you need more funding.
00:23:37.000 You need more funding and more training.
00:23:38.000 And you need to get rid of the ones that suck.
00:23:40.000 And you need a really stringent...
00:23:44.000 We're good to go.
00:23:51.000 We're good to go.
00:24:04.000 We're almost always bad.
00:24:05.000 There's one really good video from the beginning of the George Floyd protest where this one cop in Flint gets together and says to this group of people that's protesting, we're with you.
00:24:17.000 We will march with you.
00:24:18.000 We're not in opposition.
00:24:19.000 We're in this community and I'm here to be your friend.
00:24:24.000 I'm here to help out.
00:24:25.000 That's what we're here doing as police officers.
00:24:27.000 They hug this guy and they're all hugging each other and then they walk together.
00:24:31.000 It's beautiful.
00:24:32.000 It brings a tear to your eye.
00:24:35.000 That's what we want, right?
00:24:37.000 We want people that are police officers that have strong character, someone who's an exceptional human being.
00:24:43.000 I think that's who you have to be to have that job.
00:24:46.000 And defunding the police is not a solution to that in any kind of way.
00:24:50.000 I mean, this is what I think most people probably don't realize is, yeah, it takes an exceptional human being to be a police officer in a sense that you have to be, especially in these times, you have to be patient because basically a large percentage of the population is at best skeptical,
00:25:09.000 at worst hate you.
00:25:11.000 Especially now.
00:25:12.000 Especially now.
00:25:12.000 Yeah, especially now and during all that you have to still maintain calm, you have to establish control, you have to help people, you have to serve the community, all those things.
00:25:23.000 It takes an exceptional man or woman to do that.
00:25:26.000 And it's depressing to think because the exceptional humans in our society, who would want to join the police force now?
00:25:34.000 Well, I talked about this with Edward Snowden recently.
00:25:39.000 One of the things that we said was that what really needs to be done is we need to do something at the root cause of it.
00:25:46.000 Why are there still these deeply impoverished communities in this country that haven't changed since the 60s?
00:25:52.000 And there's been no work done to try to improve them.
00:25:55.000 Or whatever work has been done has been ineffective.
00:25:58.000 They're still crime-ridden.
00:25:59.000 They're still gang-ridden.
00:26:01.000 They're still filled with violence.
00:26:03.000 That's why there's so much crime.
00:26:05.000 There's so much crime because there's so many communities that it's just deeply entrenched in what they are, whether it's South Side of Chicago or parts of Detroit.
00:26:16.000 If you want to lower crime, you have to increase economic opportunity.
00:26:21.000 You have to increase education.
00:26:23.000 You have to make people feel like they're in a safer environment.
00:26:26.000 You have to do something to make these neighborhoods better.
00:26:28.000 Now, I'm a moron.
00:26:30.000 I'm not the person to figure that out.
00:26:31.000 I don't know how you make a neighborhood better, but it's not impossible.
00:26:35.000 And when you look at the amount of money that they spent...
00:26:38.000 On stimulus to try to help these businesses during the pandemic that were suffering.
00:26:43.000 Like, why couldn't they do the exact same thing in the past to these cities?
00:26:48.000 Why couldn't they treat that like a pandemic, a pandemic of violence and crime that needs to be remedied?
00:26:54.000 Yeah, this whole...
00:26:55.000 The sad thing about the way the stimulus is being distributed, at least my worry is that it creates a greater gap in wealth, wealth disparity, versus a lesser one.
00:27:08.000 So all the problems you're mentioning, it's only going to make them worse.
00:27:11.000 So people who are not well off are going to become worse.
00:27:15.000 The opportunity for jobs is going to be lesser.
00:27:18.000 The opportunities for people who are going to lose their businesses, that means...
00:27:23.000 Their dreams are broken, essentially, and the people who worked for the people who ran the businesses are going to not have a job.
00:27:31.000 And all of that creates a greater disparity within those communities, greater desperation.
00:27:38.000 And in desperation, I've been...
00:27:39.000 Reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
00:27:43.000 Great book.
00:27:44.000 I recommend it highly.
00:27:45.000 It talks about the 30s and the rise of Hitler in Germany.
00:27:49.000 And the pain, both economic and psychological, turns into this dark energy that can be combined with a charismatic leader to go into a direction of hatred versus love and progress.
00:28:06.000 And that's...
00:28:07.000 I don't think we have a competent, charismatic leader that would do that in the positive or negative direction, but I do hope a leader arises that uses that energy of pain.
00:28:25.000 To do something good in a positive way.
00:28:27.000 And we need that.
00:28:28.000 I think people don't realize how much pain there is being experienced right now.
00:28:35.000 Most people in real pain don't have a podcast, don't have a voice.
00:28:39.000 They don't have a job and everyone's kind of in this holding position.
00:28:43.000 But the reality is Once the economy opens up slowly and slowly, the remnants of the pain experience in this year is going to be there.
00:28:55.000 People have lost their savings.
00:28:57.000 People have lost their dreams.
00:28:59.000 That materializes itself, just like it did in Germany, in bitterness and hatred.
00:29:06.000 That can create revolutions.
00:29:09.000 That can create...
00:29:12.000 Unstoppable destructive forces, especially when combined with an ideologue.
00:29:16.000 That's terrifying to me.
00:29:18.000 People should definitely study...
00:29:19.000 There's kind of this discussion of Hitler recently.
00:29:25.000 Everyone says either Obama is Hitler or Trump is Hitler.
00:29:28.000 Who said Obama is Hitler?
00:29:31.000 When Obama was president, that was...
00:29:33.000 Really?
00:29:34.000 Yeah.
00:29:36.000 Because...
00:29:36.000 What the fuck?
00:29:39.000 This is what people do.
00:29:40.000 I mean, using the military-industrial complex to control the population, that kind of idea.
00:29:48.000 The thing is, you have to separate Hitler, the evil person that created the Holocaust, from the general evil charismatic leader that took the country into, used nationalism to take the country into a dark place in the 30s.
00:30:07.000 Those are two different stories.
00:30:08.000 I don't think we're going to have ever something, hopefully, any atrocity like the Holocaust.
00:30:14.000 But it's possible that the pain that people feel would be taken advantage of by a charismatic leader to take steps back, not forward.
00:30:28.000 That's a real worry.
00:30:32.000 Yeah, I don't see that leader on the horizon, but the other problem is even a positive leader.
00:30:38.000 The way politics work in America, everyone is so accustomed to people chopping people down.
00:30:45.000 So much so that one of the things that...
00:30:47.000 What's weird about Kamala Harris being with Joe Biden is that she was talking terrible things about him during the primaries.
00:30:58.000 I mean, when she was running against him in the primaries, she said horrible things about him.
00:31:01.000 And then when they brought it up on the Colbert show...
00:31:04.000 She was like, it was a debate.
00:31:07.000 It was a debate.
00:31:08.000 Like, is that what a debate is?
00:31:10.000 Like, by any means necessary, you'll distort your own views of a person in order to diminish that person so that you can succeed and they fail.
00:31:18.000 Or do you really mean that?
00:31:21.000 And that's why you said it in the debate and you're willing to compromise.
00:31:25.000 Whatever your ethics or your morals or whatever your perceptions this person are because you want to be vice president.
00:31:31.000 It's one or the other.
00:31:32.000 Either one's not good.
00:31:33.000 And I think it speaks to just the standard way that people debate and that people run for president in this country.
00:31:40.000 It's about tearing the other people down.
00:31:42.000 It's not about what you can do, what you want to do, what's your vision.
00:31:46.000 It's about how bad that other person's going to do at the job, how bad that other person has done at the job.
00:31:52.000 What a terrible person they are.
00:31:53.000 Let's distort their character.
00:31:56.000 Yeah, so turning it into a game, a rap battle.
00:31:59.000 I mean, my worry is that we're going to get in 2024, 2028, Donald Trump Jr. versus like AOC. So you basically take like the most entertaining Instagram accounts or whatever.
00:32:14.000 In the most divisive ones, who's going to have the best memes of tearing each other down?
00:32:18.000 It'll become a reality show.
00:32:20.000 And of course the media would love that because it draws more eyes because we generally are drawn to controversy to drama and funny drama.
00:32:32.000 Like this kind of shallow, derisive kind of...
00:32:37.000 Conversation.
00:32:37.000 Basically trolls on both sides.
00:32:39.000 We're drawn to that.
00:32:40.000 As opposed to the Andrew Yang type folks who are like, let's all get along and let's hear some ideas.
00:32:47.000 That's why he's so refreshing, right?
00:32:48.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:32:49.000 And also, you know, he's an entrepreneur.
00:32:51.000 It's a different kind of human being that is running into the race.
00:32:55.000 He's not a career politician.
00:32:56.000 He's a guy who genuinely thinks he can help.
00:33:00.000 Yeah, and young.
00:33:01.000 Young, there's something to that, just that fresh energy.
00:33:04.000 100%.
00:33:04.000 Not compromised, too.
00:33:06.000 Not compromised by that fucked up system.
00:33:08.000 When you deal with someone like Joe Biden, who's a 50-year politician, like, my God, it's so entangled.
00:33:15.000 You're so encrusted into that.
00:33:17.000 He probably doesn't even...
00:33:19.000 He's almost unable to think original thoughts at this time because you've been in the system for so long.
00:33:28.000 You can't sit back, Elon Musk style, think from first principles.
00:33:32.000 Like, okay, here's a new problem.
00:33:35.000 What are the ways we've been doing it previously?
00:33:37.000 It hasn't worked.
00:33:38.000 How can we do it differently?
00:33:40.000 Let's all cut the bullshit.
00:33:43.000 I know there's a bunch of ties, lobbyists, money interests.
00:33:49.000 Let's put all that aside.
00:33:51.000 What are we supposed to do?
00:33:52.000 We're supposed to represent the people.
00:33:55.000 We're supposed to do something great for this country.
00:33:58.000 How do we do that?
00:33:59.000 And fire, again, this is destructive, creative destruction.
00:34:06.000 Fire everybody who has the entrenched old school assumptions that haven't worked.
00:34:13.000 Fire everybody and hire new energy.
00:34:15.000 Well, you'd have to revamp the system, too.
00:34:18.000 There's so much to do.
00:34:20.000 Well, this is the time to do it.
00:34:21.000 And there's a hunger for that.
00:34:23.000 I think there's a hunger for a populist that wants to revamp the system.
00:34:27.000 It doesn't matter whether or not they'd actually be able to do it.
00:34:30.000 I mean, there's so many checks and balances in place to sort of prevent that from happening because they're worried about someone doing it for the wrong reasons.
00:34:37.000 Well, if there's a positive view on our current president, Donald Trump, is he showed that you don't have to follow the rules.
00:34:46.000 You don't have to follow the rules of the system.
00:34:48.000 You can just fire everybody.
00:34:50.000 The checks and balances, you just need to ignore them.
00:34:52.000 Yeah.
00:34:53.000 I mean, that should be inspiring to positive leaders.
00:34:58.000 Say, you know what?
00:34:59.000 Even if I'm young, even if I'm an AOC-type character or whatever, on the right, even Donald J. Trump, Jr., sorry, Donald Trump, is he also a J? Well, he's Jr., so he must be a J. Okay.
00:35:14.000 Yeah, the way Junior works, you have to have the same middle name as well.
00:35:17.000 It has to be a perfect match.
00:35:18.000 Okay.
00:35:19.000 I believe so.
00:35:20.000 Isn't that correct?
00:35:20.000 I'm pretty sure I do.
00:35:21.000 Well, yeah.
00:35:23.000 So, yeah, that should be inspiring to young leaders to say you can revamp the whole system.
00:35:30.000 That was one of the criticisms of Barack Obama is that he talked about change and he hasn't really changed much.
00:35:37.000 Yeah.
00:35:38.000 Yeah.
00:35:39.000 I think it's possible to change.
00:35:41.000 I think there's something gross about Juniors.
00:35:44.000 Yeah.
00:35:45.000 Just the name.
00:35:45.000 Junior.
00:35:47.000 Like, can't you be your own fucking person?
00:35:49.000 The third?
00:35:50.000 The fourth?
00:35:50.000 Oh, God.
00:35:51.000 Thurston Howell III. It's like the Queen.
00:35:53.000 Like from Gilligan's Island.
00:35:55.000 Yeah, it's weird.
00:35:56.000 Like, come on, Dad.
00:35:57.000 Can't you come up with another fucking name, you unoriginal twat?
00:36:01.000 You know?
00:36:02.000 How about give me a different name?
00:36:03.000 Yeah.
00:36:04.000 I gotta walk around with Junior?
00:36:05.000 Yeah.
00:36:06.000 Donald the Fourth.
00:36:07.000 Lex Friedman Jr. This little Lex.
00:36:10.000 Yeah.
00:36:11.000 And they have like multiples.
00:36:12.000 I like the sound of that.
00:36:14.000 He has a Lex.
00:36:15.000 It's a tradition.
00:36:17.000 How about George Foreman?
00:36:18.000 You know he names all his kids George?
00:36:19.000 George.
00:36:20.000 All of them.
00:36:22.000 I think even his daughters.
00:36:24.000 Really?
00:36:25.000 That can't be true.
00:36:26.000 That cannot be true.
00:36:28.000 It's true.
00:36:28.000 And then you have, on the opposite side, Elon Musk, who names his kids random letters of the alphabet.
00:36:36.000 Yeah, he named his kid after a jet and all kinds of other weird shit.
00:36:40.000 They're not all.
00:36:41.000 He's named a few daughters, other things, apparently.
00:36:44.000 Oh, George has?
00:36:45.000 Yeah.
00:36:45.000 Well, he's got a lot of kids, right?
00:36:46.000 There's a Georgetta and a...
00:36:48.000 Yeah.
00:36:51.000 Yeah, that's a weird move.
00:36:52.000 Ms. Pat had something on her Instagram about NFL players yesterday.
00:36:57.000 About like seven NFL players have fathered 52 children from 48. There was one guy who had like 26 kids a couple years ago or something like that.
00:37:07.000 So crazy!
00:37:10.000 Teach that man about condoms.
00:37:12.000 Good lord, sir.
00:37:14.000 Yeah.
00:37:16.000 There's no way you're taking care of all those kids.
00:37:18.000 This one has 14. Someone has 14 kids?
00:37:21.000 He has 350 grand or so a year to support eight of them.
00:37:26.000 He has to pay.
00:37:28.000 Only eight of them?
00:37:29.000 What about the other ones?
00:37:30.000 Hey, they all got different deals, I guess.
00:37:32.000 Oh, boy.
00:37:34.000 Yeah.
00:37:36.000 It's too easy to make people.
00:37:37.000 The problem is it's pleasurable and we're all super drawn to it because it's part of our DNA to be sexually attracted to whoever and that's how you make people.
00:37:48.000 It's crazy.
00:37:48.000 It's like hunger making people.
00:37:52.000 Because people used to die so easily because we don't run fast and we're basically like water balloons.
00:38:00.000 And died at birth, like, close to, at a young age often, because just medicine advanced so much that we were able to save kids.
00:38:09.000 Sure.
00:38:10.000 Nutrition, infections, all that kind of stuff.
00:38:12.000 Yeah.
00:38:13.000 I don't, I can't, I haven't looked into this carefully, but there seems to be a lot of debate about whether to worry about overpopulation or not.
00:38:21.000 Like, I've posted these, like, projections of the population when we're going to reach 10 trillion people.
00:38:31.000 People, billion people, and there's a lot of debate of whether that is, like, we should be worried about or not.
00:38:39.000 On the one side, the natural carrying capacity of Earth, people say that we have way more resources than we need.
00:38:45.000 It's not to worry about.
00:38:47.000 It's nothing to worry about.
00:38:48.000 But it's about how those resources are allocated, right?
00:38:50.000 Right.
00:38:50.000 Some places are very resource poor, but they have high populations, and that's a gigantic problem.
00:38:56.000 And most of the population growth in the 21st century will be in Africa.
00:39:01.000 If you look at the models, and Africa will have, I believe, more people than the rest of the world by the end of the century, if the population continues.
00:39:11.000 If you talk about large families, they're happening in Africa.
00:39:15.000 The thing about Africa though is it actually can fit most of the world in it when you realize how big Africa is.
00:39:21.000 I had no idea until we started doing this podcast and Jamie pulled up this image of like Europe and Asia and the United States and all these other countries stuffed into the continent of Africa.
00:39:32.000 It's only then you realize how big Africa actually is.
00:39:36.000 So it kind of makes sense.
00:39:37.000 Yeah, space-wise, but also resource-wise, I mean, there's a lot of people suffering in Africa.
00:39:45.000 That's something that we keep a blind eye to, but there's real suffering.
00:39:49.000 Poverty.
00:39:50.000 It's interesting that some animals have mating seasons.
00:39:54.000 You know, like deer have mating seasons.
00:39:57.000 They go into the rut in the fall, and then the does are in estrus, and they give out the scent, and the bucks go crazy, and they're chasing them all around, but they only do it once a year.
00:40:08.000 And in the spring, they give birth to the new fawns.
00:40:11.000 And this is like, it's really common in the wild for animals to have a season.
00:40:16.000 Do chimps?
00:40:17.000 No.
00:40:18.000 No, no, no.
00:40:20.000 I wonder if there's ups and downs.
00:40:23.000 So humans have a mating season around Christmas, the holidays, and then it goes down in the January month?
00:40:30.000 I think it's only game animals, meaning animals that are prey.
00:40:34.000 And I think predators just go buck wild.
00:40:37.000 I think predators breed whenever the fuck they want to.
00:40:41.000 I don't know if that's true, though.
00:40:43.000 I mean, I don't know if lions and tigers, for instance.
00:40:48.000 I had a bit that I used to do about tigers because I watched this Discovery Channel show where they said when the female tiger is in season, the male can mate with her as many times as 52 in a day.
00:40:59.000 Wow.
00:41:00.000 Yeah, so they just get after it.
00:41:02.000 But I don't know how long that lasts.
00:41:04.000 When they're in heat...
00:41:06.000 Jamie, could you look up the mating seasons for lions, please?
00:41:11.000 Yes, please.
00:41:12.000 Here it goes.
00:41:13.000 In captivity, lions often breed every year, but in the wild, they usually breed no more than once in two years.
00:41:21.000 Females are receptive to mating for three or four days within a widely variable reproductive cycle.
00:41:27.000 During this time, a pair generally mates every 20 to 30 minutes with up to 50 copulations for 24 hours.
00:41:34.000 Woo!
00:41:36.000 That sounds weirdly like my life, actually.
00:41:40.000 Once in two years.
00:41:41.000 It's good.
00:41:43.000 Well, maybe you're a predator, sir.
00:41:45.000 Yeah, but it's interesting, the wildly, the reproductive cycles.
00:41:49.000 It's like it's not predictable, like a prey animal, you know?
00:41:54.000 But I would also think that nature probably, over the course of millions of years, balances that out with overpopulation.
00:42:01.000 They realize, like, hey, if there's too many lions, like, what eats lions?
00:42:06.000 Very few things eat lions, right?
00:42:08.000 Occasionally a hyena will get one with a broken leg, and they'll take it out.
00:42:11.000 But the reality is mostly it's lions doing the eating.
00:42:14.000 So you can't have too many of them.
00:42:16.000 But deer and things like that, well, fuck, man.
00:42:20.000 They make babies and then they can literally overwhelm a resource area if there's no predators.
00:42:28.000 So you have to have predators.
00:42:30.000 So there's some sort of a balance.
00:42:33.000 Nature sort of figured out the best way to keep the animals healthy is to only have them breed once a year.
00:42:38.000 Yeah, it's amazing how evolution finds a balance for all kinds of them.
00:42:42.000 I think you mean God, but that's okay.
00:42:45.000 I'll let you get away with that.
00:42:46.000 God and Jesus, yeah.
00:42:47.000 Don't you know we're in Texas, bro?
00:42:49.000 Yeah.
00:42:51.000 Guns, God and America.
00:42:53.000 Yeah.
00:42:53.000 Whiskey, scotch.
00:42:55.000 It is amazing.
00:42:56.000 I mean, natural selection and just evolution in general is so fascinating.
00:43:01.000 You know what's amazing?
00:43:02.000 I talked to Sarah Seger.
00:43:04.000 There's this whole group of people that look for life.
00:43:07.000 I don't know if you know what exoplanets are.
00:43:09.000 They look for life out there.
00:43:12.000 Some people think that there's Jupiter, Moon of Jupiter, Europa.
00:43:19.000 It's fascinating to think that there's life currently or at least recently on Mars.
00:43:25.000 And it's fascinating to think what the evolutionary process on those planets has resulted in.
00:43:32.000 And when we show up, I talked to somebody, I forget who, oh, I think a biologist, the colleague faculty at MIT. He mentioned that, because my worry would be if we encounter life on another planet, it would be destructive to us humans,
00:43:50.000 or we to them, one or the other.
00:43:53.000 With this virus we're experiencing now, my natural thought, I don't know what I'm talking about with biology, but my natural thought would be when you touch that life itself, It might basically be a parasite to take advantage of you somehow.
00:44:09.000 Sure.
00:44:09.000 But he said that likely there's a certain kind of distance that happens if it's far enough away in terms of the kind of energy it uses, the kind of environment it's adapted to, that it basically won't even notice humans.
00:44:25.000 It won't know how to take advantage of the resources we provide.
00:44:29.000 So that's a hopeful message that we basically could study it safely.
00:44:34.000 But isn't that just purely speculative?
00:44:36.000 Because if it's in the Goldilocks zone and you have something that is also carbon-based biological life that is a similar temperature range that it exists in, it easily could eat us.
00:44:48.000 You know?
00:44:49.000 Yeah, from inside.
00:44:51.000 Like Pandorum in Avatar, that planet.
00:44:55.000 I've always felt like that movie was so interesting because it's close, right?
00:45:01.000 It's close.
00:45:02.000 Whatever it is is not Earth, but it's close.
00:45:05.000 And the things that live there, they're not human, but they're close.
00:45:10.000 You could kind of see that.
00:45:12.000 It's good enough.
00:45:13.000 It's close enough.
00:45:14.000 Like the animals and all the weird creatures in the jungle in the Avatar movie...
00:45:18.000 But the thing is, most likely life will be not close.
00:45:21.000 Right, most likely.
00:45:24.000 I told you about David Fravor, who I've talked to recently.
00:45:31.000 By the way, thank you for, I renamed my podcast to just my name, Lex Friedman.
00:45:38.000 When I heard you tell that to Joey, Joey Diaz.
00:45:40.000 Yeah.
00:45:41.000 Sadly, people should go listen to Joey's last...
00:45:44.000 He recorded his last Church of What's Happening Now episode.
00:45:48.000 So you suggested to him that he should do some new thing totally and just name it after himself.
00:45:52.000 And I was like, why the fuck am I... Have some silly name like Artificial Intelligence.
00:45:57.000 Just name it like the Joe Rogan experience.
00:46:01.000 I named it Lex Friedman Podcast.
00:46:03.000 Anyway, I talked to David for four hours...
00:46:07.000 Why did I bring that up?
00:46:08.000 David Fravor.
00:46:09.000 Let's explain who David Fravor was.
00:46:12.000 He's a fighter jet pilot for the Navy, and he discovered a UFO off the coast of San Diego that, when they tracked it, went from 60,000 feet to one feet in a second or less.
00:46:29.000 I think?
00:46:52.000 Doing something that showed that it was intelligently aware of the fact that they are using tracking devices to try to lock in on it.
00:47:01.000 And it behaved and moved in a way that defies all of our understandings of propulsion systems.
00:47:07.000 It didn't give off any heat signature.
00:47:09.000 And the people from the Navy that he was communicating with saying, yeah, we see these every now and again.
00:47:15.000 We don't know what the fuck they are.
00:47:16.000 So the thing I was going to say, there's a lot of interesting things to say about this, but I just remembered that it felt like from that entire experience that because it didn't have a Chinese or Russian flag on it, whatever he saw, is we tend to,
00:47:33.000 just the entire system doesn't want to acknowledge it.
00:47:38.000 You just, you don't know what to do with it.
00:47:40.000 So they actually, most of, like when you return back to the ship, and there's a bunch of pilots that put, you know, that saw it.
00:47:47.000 There's a lot of people that witnessed it, and there's also the video.
00:47:50.000 You know, the majority of the people didn't know what to do with it.
00:47:52.000 They just went on with their day, like nothing happened.
00:47:55.000 You know, they kind of made fun of each other, whatever, for, you know...
00:48:00.000 Yeah, sure, bro.
00:48:01.000 You saw aliens.
00:48:03.000 But they didn't know how to comprehend it.
00:48:05.000 That's what I meant.
00:48:06.000 If we encounter life from elsewhere in the universe, we think we would be, as a population, excited.
00:48:15.000 But it feels like, just like with Bigfoot, we're excited by the mystery when they're just out of reach.
00:48:24.000 But when they're among us...
00:48:28.000 There's so many mysteries and incredible things among us that we just kind of take them for granted.
00:48:34.000 We don't even...
00:48:35.000 Or ignore them, actually.
00:48:37.000 Even worse, we ignore them.
00:48:38.000 We get used to things.
00:48:39.000 And that was the weird thing.
00:48:41.000 The biggest mystery to me about what David Faber saw, and then also with the other videos in 2014, something like that, the Go Fast...
00:48:53.000 It's like, it wasn't a bigger deal than I thought it would be.
00:48:57.000 Well, the big deal was when the Pentagon came out and said that they have recovered some vehicles that are not of this world.
00:49:06.000 Now, they didn't expand on that.
00:49:08.000 There hasn't been more conversation about that.
00:49:10.000 But my...
00:49:12.000 This is purely speculation.
00:49:14.000 My speculation is they are slowly spoon-feeding us information to allow people to be more comfortable with the inevitable arrival of something.
00:49:26.000 If they believe that something's coming, they don't want it to happen all at once.
00:49:29.000 You see what happens just with the pandemic.
00:49:31.000 You see what happens with George Floyd.
00:49:33.000 You see what happens with any time there's a big shock to our system and there's chaos in the streets.
00:49:38.000 It's unmanageable.
00:49:40.000 And if the UFOs came in the middle of something like that, like Jesus Christ, like who the fuck knows what would go down?
00:49:45.000 If I was someone who was in a position of power, I would say, listen, this information is going to get out.
00:49:51.000 It's inevitable.
00:49:52.000 So why don't we let people know now?
00:49:56.000 Just give them, just in words, say, we have recovered crafts that are not of this world.
00:50:01.000 Say something crazy like that, print it in the New York Times, get it out there, and then slowly drip out more information.
00:50:08.000 When they see these videos, they'll get more and more accustomed to it, and then eventually to be like masks.
00:50:13.000 Like, you walk down the street, everybody has a mask on.
00:50:15.000 You don't even think about it.
00:50:16.000 Yeah, but, okay, so let me...
00:50:19.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:50:20.000 I totally...
00:50:21.000 And this is such a fascinating question.
00:50:23.000 If the government is in possession of an alien spacecraft, what is the right way to release that information?
00:50:32.000 The real problem is if it's more potent than any weapon that any civilization has currently on this planet.
00:50:40.000 So if the United States is in control of this vehicle that is more potent and can do things that, like, if you really do have something that can go from 60,000 feet to one foot in under a second, that defies all of our understandings of speed,
00:50:56.000 right?
00:50:56.000 I mean, that's so fast.
00:50:58.000 If you could do that...
00:51:00.000 Well, there's arguments against, because it could be human-created technology, too, that's just 15, 20, 30 years out.
00:51:06.000 Like the stealth bomber was developed secretly.
00:51:10.000 So what defies...
00:51:12.000 It's our perception of its movement capabilities is what defies.
00:51:16.000 But there could be some tricks on perception that...
00:51:18.000 I mean, that's the whole point with a stealth bomber is it's difficult to detect.
00:51:22.000 Sure.
00:51:23.000 And so there could be same kind of tricks on perception that you could just be playing different kinds of amazing secret human created technology that is able to deceive the human eye.
00:51:35.000 That's a good point.
00:51:36.000 I mean, but the thing about it is they tracked it.
00:51:38.000 It wasn't just that it was the human eye that saw this and it's deceptive.
00:51:43.000 But also like the stealth bomber, you know, the way it's designed, it blocks radar or radar doesn't catch on to it.
00:51:49.000 I think it is possible that some human created technology that's so far advanced from anything that we're currently That we currently understand in terms of mainstream propulsion experts and fighter pilots like David Fravor and military people.
00:52:09.000 It is possible that some civilization, one of the big civilizations on this planet, whether it's China or Russia, has come up with something that's above and beyond what everybody knows.
00:52:22.000 But it's not likely.
00:52:23.000 It's not likely that they've made that much of a leap.
00:52:26.000 In your sense, on the other side, if it's alien technology, see, I'm more optimistic.
00:52:32.000 To me as a scientist and engineer, and actually David Faber says this too, in this time of pandemic, in this time of like just...
00:52:42.000 Just hard negative news everywhere.
00:52:45.000 There will be nothing more inspiring than the government in an inspiring like Neil deGrasse Tyson way coming out and saying we have not releasing the videos like they did which is I don't know if you know but they just put videos on a website like there's not there's nothing he's just videos it's just like would like some boring documents and describe like nothing they're not inspiring we're not talking about like Neil deGrasse Tyson or like Carl Sagan Cosmos style Like a beautiful,
00:53:11.000 inspiring...
00:53:11.000 What is more inspiring than an alien spacecraft?
00:53:16.000 Look, there's a fascinating mystery here.
00:53:19.000 There's nothing more inspiring to us humans than that there is life out there, intelligent life out there.
00:53:25.000 But how would you handle it?
00:53:26.000 Like, let's imagine.
00:53:27.000 Let's imagine you are the leader of the United States, and you find out, or whatever, the head of the Navy military intelligence program, whoever you are, you're a person that's in a position where you realize that this thing is from another world, and you have this responsibility to try to somehow or another publicize this.
00:53:48.000 Yeah.
00:53:49.000 I would approach it 100% from the perspective of science.
00:53:56.000 Here's a mystery.
00:53:58.000 You mentioned there's this inclination to think like, how can I figure out a way to use this as a weapon to destroy Russia or China?
00:54:08.000 As opposed to seeing it like going to Mars, colonizing Mars, or going to the moon originally.
00:54:17.000 There is some competitive element, but mostly it's a human pursuit of understanding and human pursuit of overcoming our limited knowledge to sort of unlock mysteries of this universe.
00:54:30.000 From a physics perspective, from an engineering perspective, I would release all the information I have And release it in a way that gets the Neil deGrasse Tyson folks in the loop.
00:54:42.000 So it's almost like an inspiring effort for us as a humanity to understand what the hell this thing is versus let's keep it secret and see if we can use it as a weapon.
00:54:55.000 Well, I appreciate that you think that way because you're a scientist.
00:54:58.000 You're thinking about it in a very positive way to try to expand our education and our understanding of this thing.
00:55:04.000 Maybe we could use it for good.
00:55:07.000 But you've got to realize that anything that surpasses any and all technologies that we currently enjoy in terms of fighter pilots and jets and military superiority, if there's something that just...
00:55:22.000 If everybody has a Model T and you have a Ferrari, or better yet, you have a Tesla, you have a Model S, and everybody's got a Model T, you're in a race.
00:55:33.000 You have something that is so far above and beyond what everybody else has.
00:55:39.000 It's not really a fair race.
00:55:40.000 It's a joke.
00:55:41.000 You'll dominate.
00:55:43.000 If you have a Model T and the other person has a Tesla and you're racing and the winner gets to decide...
00:55:51.000 We're good to go.
00:56:15.000 If they have something like that that's powered by something that we can't even imagine, and you figure out how to use that here on Earth, you'll have technical superiority.
00:56:24.000 Technological superiority over every other civilization, every other country.
00:56:28.000 In that technological superiority, it's so funny us chimps are still talking about...
00:56:35.000 We want our village to be better than the next village.
00:56:37.000 When there's an alien civilization that's a million years more advanced, that can easily destroy us if it wanted to.
00:56:46.000 Or actually understands the nature of existence in this universe on levels that are like...
00:56:53.000 We chimps talk about meditation and finding inner peace.
00:56:57.000 It understands...
00:56:58.000 On such a deeper level, like the nature of consciousness, the nature of intelligence, the meaning of life, all that weird stuff that we're so obsessed with, it understands it on another level.
00:57:09.000 And here we are thinking about what the Russians are doing versus understanding that mystery.
00:57:17.000 In the face of that mystery, something that's far more intelligent than us, I think we can't...
00:57:24.000 It's a ridiculous notion to think we're anything but one human village.
00:57:31.000 And in terms of weapons, because you said get all the girls or whatever, I think the weapons thing is the key thing.
00:57:38.000 And we already, at least the major nations, have all the weapons we need to destroy each other.
00:57:44.000 It's like, we don't need extra weapons.
00:57:48.000 Well, I mean, it feels like your hypothesis would be like, if an alien technology was here and we'd figure it out, we'd be able to have something that destroys...
00:58:05.000 Other chimp villages an order of magnitude more efficiently than nuclear weapons, thereby having an asymmetrical, sort of from a game theory perspective, power over other nations.
00:58:17.000 And we can tell China what to do.
00:58:19.000 We can tell Russia what to do.
00:58:20.000 That's the perspective from which they're thinking.
00:58:24.000 I'm not even saying that they're thinking that way.
00:58:26.000 I'm thinking a human would think that if they had control of this vehicle.
00:58:30.000 I'm not saying that the aliens would think this way.
00:58:32.000 I'm thinking also that we are constantly innovating.
00:58:35.000 When you talk to people that are designing jets and planes and fighter pilots and they're talking about new systems that they've created and new weapons, they don't just sit back and say we have enough weapons to destroy Russia and China and the rest of the world combined so we're just going to stop.
00:58:56.000 This is not how human beings innovate.
00:59:16.000 That would be that propulsion system.
00:59:19.000 If you do really have something that can go from 60,000 feet to one feet in less than a second, you're dealing with something that we don't understand.
00:59:26.000 We can't do that right now.
00:59:27.000 And if you could figure out how to do that and propel people that quickly, it would be a game changer.
00:59:34.000 Now, how much of a game changer?
00:59:35.000 What does that mean?
00:59:36.000 Well, we're in this weird place where we kind of agree to not use our best weapons.
00:59:42.000 Like when there's a face-off between the United States jets and a Russian jet and they come close to each other, like over China or something like that.
00:59:52.000 It's weird because we're not shooting at each other, but we're real close.
00:59:57.000 And even the missiles that we have, they're not nuclear.
01:00:01.000 But we're involved in a skirmish with another country.
01:00:07.000 But we don't use all our weapons.
01:00:09.000 If we approached war the way people approached war in the Middle Ages, we would just nuke the fuck out of everybody that talks shit, right?
01:00:21.000 What did China just say?
01:00:23.000 What did they just say?
01:00:24.000 Fucking launch those missiles.
01:00:25.000 Fuck those people.
01:00:26.000 Instead of Twitter, it'd be nukes.
01:00:27.000 Exactly.
01:00:28.000 So we're already in this place where we don't use our best stuff.
01:00:32.000 So if we had something that made us fly better and fly faster, the real question is, yeah, how much would that change the world?
01:00:40.000 I don't know how much it would.
01:00:42.000 If we got in control of some UFO and we're able to get to China quicker, how much of a difference would that make in terms of the way they responded to our military?
01:00:53.000 We're in this...
01:00:54.000 Position now where there's multiple countries that have the ability to destroy other countries.
01:01:00.000 Iran has some sort of a nuclear program.
01:01:03.000 Pakistan has a nuclear program.
01:01:05.000 India has a nuclear program.
01:01:07.000 You know, of course, the United States, Russia, China.
01:01:11.000 There's many countries that have the ability to fucking wipe out huge numbers of the population like that.
01:01:19.000 Just launch just one crazy Psychotic leader who just decides to just, listen, we're going to fucking make our mark here.
01:01:27.000 Everybody together on one, two, three, go.
01:01:30.000 Boom!
01:01:32.000 I mean, that's such a difficult, you talk to Snowden, such a difficult ethical question.
01:01:38.000 Like, if I actually had that information...
01:01:41.000 I tend to lean a little bit on the side of it's the duty of every American to leak that information, to take it and make it public.
01:01:48.000 But I understand that it takes a huge risk of destroying the world because evil people can get their hands on that information.
01:01:56.000 That's the Bob Lazar question, right?
01:01:59.000 Wasn't that Oppenheimer's dilemma?
01:02:01.000 I mean, when Oppenheimer, who's a very peaceful man...
01:02:07.000 He created the most destructive, or helped create the most destructive invention the world's ever known.
01:02:13.000 It's a conundrum, right?
01:02:16.000 But doing so, did he prevent a lot of other death because Germany would have gotten it, or Japan would have gotten it, and they would have used it on Europe, and they would have used it on the United States?
01:02:28.000 Is that possible?
01:02:29.000 That's the argument, right?
01:02:31.000 That there's a race going on, that people understand that splitting the atom is possible, that nuclear weapons are feasible, and whoever gets them first is going to have a massive advantage.
01:02:40.000 We got them first, and therefore we became the preeminent superpower.
01:02:46.000 But what if we didn't?
01:02:47.000 What if Oppenheimer was a dummy?
01:02:49.000 You know, what if there was a bunch of knuckleheads working for the United States and the Russians and the Germans and the Japanese were all working together and they came up with something far better?
01:02:58.000 Obviously, the Russians were against the Germans in that war.
01:03:01.000 But I mean, you fit together any superpowers at the time, if they got together with their scientists, and they figured out a nuclear bomb first, just dropped it on San Francisco.
01:03:11.000 Well, how much would the world be different now?
01:03:13.000 I mean, in Russia, Stalin is a complicated figure, so he was on the side of the United States at the time.
01:03:20.000 But evil as fuck.
01:03:22.000 But evil, evil.
01:03:24.000 And if he had nuclear weapons, it's a whole other discussion.
01:03:27.000 Yes.
01:03:29.000 It's actually quite surprising to me that we got out of the 20th century alive.
01:03:35.000 From a perspective of Oppenheimer, I think he probably wondered if we're going to destroy ourselves within the next decade, no matter what happens.
01:03:47.000 When you have weapons that can destroy all of civilization, especially now with hydrogen bombs, it's complicated to talk about anything like alien technology.
01:03:58.000 Yeah.
01:03:59.000 Well, I think that's probably...
01:04:01.000 I mean, if I was an alien and I was paying attention to Earth, that's probably why I would visit.
01:04:08.000 I'd be like, these chimps are in this weird stage of evolution where they're still chimps.
01:04:14.000 They're still behaving like territorial apes.
01:04:16.000 But now they have nuclear technology.
01:04:18.000 They have this very crude version of literally the power of the sun...
01:04:26.000 Okay, so here's another hypothesis.
01:04:28.000 They saw these destructive weapons, and so they actually, in Roswell, or whatever it is, planted a piece of technology that we should figure out.
01:04:38.000 They'll be an infinitely powerful generator of love versus destruction.
01:04:43.000 So they're like, okay, these chimps are not going down the wrong path.
01:04:46.000 Let us plant some stuff where they figure out how to be enlightened.
01:04:50.000 Mushrooms.
01:04:51.000 Yeah, mushrooms.
01:04:51.000 That's what they did.
01:04:53.000 They probably tried that.
01:04:57.000 From their perspective, the chimps are like a nice video game.
01:05:01.000 They're like a chia pet where you watch them grow.
01:05:07.000 That's what we would do if we encounter maybe an ant colony and we saw that the ant colony is destroying itself.
01:05:16.000 You know, us, from a scientific perspective, we'd want them to not become extinct.
01:05:22.000 So probably interfere in some way to try to prevent the ant colony from destroying itself.
01:05:28.000 Probably.
01:05:29.000 So, you know, as a curiosity, as a cosmic...
01:05:33.000 It feels like Earth is a cosmic curiosity.
01:05:35.000 From a perspective of an intelligent alien species, that's really interesting what's going on there.
01:05:41.000 Let's see what's happening.
01:05:42.000 A friend of mine told me this story that he saw two mounds of fire ants and that he did this experiment where he took a bucket and he scooped up ants from one fire ant colony and scooped up ants from the other and then dumped them on the opposite colonies and watched them fight to the death.
01:06:07.000 And I was like, fuck, really?
01:06:09.000 He goes, yeah, they instantaneously knew that those ants were from the wrong colony and they just went to war.
01:06:16.000 And there's a few good books on ants.
01:06:19.000 They have like a collective intelligence.
01:06:21.000 Because we tend to think of individual ants, but somehow as an organism together in the thousands of ants, millions of ants, there's somehow a collective intelligence that emerges.
01:06:36.000 There's this whole field of computer science called ant colony optimization.
01:06:41.000 Like, if we just simulate nature-inspired optimization algorithms, they somehow figure out how to do stuff in an emergent way.
01:06:50.000 Don't really understand it.
01:06:51.000 We don't have mathematics to deal with, like...
01:06:53.000 When you have a bunch of distributed organisms doing dumb stuff, just looking at their neighbors, when you look at the system as a whole, intelligent stuff emerges.
01:07:09.000 That's...
01:07:12.000 Do you know who Stephen Wolfram is?
01:07:14.000 No.
01:07:14.000 By any chance?
01:07:15.000 Well, you know who Eric Weinstein is.
01:07:17.000 Yeah.
01:07:18.000 So there, Eric Weinstein is, out of the million intelligent things he does, he's also a mathematical physicist.
01:07:26.000 So he has that theory of everything that you've talked to him about, or he blew your mind with geometric unity.
01:07:32.000 There's another guy, really brilliant guy, Steven Wolfram.
01:07:36.000 He's a physicist.
01:07:36.000 He created Wolfram Alpha that everybody uses in high school to do their homework in calculus.
01:07:45.000 There it is.
01:07:47.000 You can ask it a bunch of questions like, how much does Joe Rogan weigh or something like that.
01:07:53.000 I don't know if you can...
01:07:54.000 I don't know if it knows about Joe Rogan, but it might.
01:07:56.000 It'd be interesting.
01:07:57.000 Let's see.
01:07:59.000 It has like this huge knowledge base.
01:08:02.000 Yeah, maybe it doesn't know individual people.
01:08:07.000 What was it, sir?
01:08:08.000 Pretty close.
01:08:10.000 What does it say?
01:08:11.000 It just has Google information.
01:08:13.000 But it's able to integrate it really well.
01:08:15.000 So you can do math on this information.
01:08:17.000 That's a really important thing.
01:08:18.000 So you can calculate the average population of Austin because it has the information of the number of people, the number of areas, all that, whatever.
01:08:29.000 It's a really useful tool.
01:08:30.000 But he also came out with this Wolfram Physics project recently where he describes...
01:08:36.000 It's another theory of everything.
01:08:38.000 Do you know what a theory of everything is?
01:08:40.000 It's a unification of all the different laws of physics so that with one theory you can describe everything that's happening around us.
01:08:48.000 And the reason I bring that up, because we're talking about ants, Stephen Wolfram's idea, he has this model of the universe that's what's called a hypergraphist.
01:09:01.000 Really simple system that grows with a single rule like it expands it starts from just a couple of Points that are connected with a line and then it grows with a single simple rule just like ants interact really simply this system grows And his theory is that it can grow to create our entire universe.
01:09:21.000 From it, it doesn't have a concept of space or time like we perceive it, the three-dimensional space and the fourth dimension of time.
01:09:29.000 But all of that emerges within the system.
01:09:32.000 We chimps are one in 10 to the 120 part of that incredible infrastructure that grows.
01:09:41.000 And he mathematically describes the way this thing grows.
01:09:45.000 We don't currently have good mathematics for modeling the way such systems grow.
01:09:51.000 There's something called cellular automata where it's really called game of life.
01:09:57.000 Unfortunately, John Conway that created the game of life died recently from COVID. It describes a very simple system where from simple rules you can have incredible complexity.
01:10:14.000 Basically like one ant, or actually two ants, and then their interaction creates a system that's so incredibly complex, even though the underlying rules are simple.
01:10:28.000 We don't understand why the hell that happens.
01:10:31.000 We humans, from a scientific perspective, We know how to describe like a single system, the way an object moves.
01:10:38.000 We don't have a math or even a science of describing how trillions of objects move when they interact simply with each other.
01:10:48.000 We don't know how to do that.
01:10:50.000 But that's what seems to happen.
01:10:51.000 When you look at, we know how to, you know, psychology can describe the behavior of a single human.
01:10:57.000 What we don't have a science of is to describe what happens when a billion humans interact.
01:11:03.000 I don't know if that kind of makes sense, but it's called a complexity, a study of complexity.
01:11:10.000 What is this, Jamie?
01:11:11.000 This is a hypergraph.
01:11:14.000 He started explanations of all this sort of stuff.
01:11:17.000 So if you look at any of those, if you zoom in on any of those graphs, I mean, on the previous page, the previous one was really good.
01:11:27.000 So if you zoom in on any of those, below you see all these beautiful little graphy things.
01:11:32.000 Below it there is like two boxes.
01:11:34.000 And that describes a rule of if you see a pattern on the left, expand it to the pattern on the right.
01:11:42.000 And the entirety...
01:11:44.000 So his hypothesis is one of these rules created the universe.
01:11:49.000 Where this little rule of if you see a pattern on the left, create a pattern on the right.
01:11:54.000 It creates these incredibly rich graphs.
01:11:56.000 From which emerged, he's modeling all of quantum mechanics, of general relativity.
01:12:02.000 So theory of everything needs to unify the physics of the big, which is general relativity, special relativity, and then the physics of the really small, which is quantum mechanics.
01:12:13.000 And he, within those graphs, is able to find the emergence of these theories.
01:12:19.000 First, the emergence of space and time.
01:12:22.000 I mean, everything you need to describe for quantum field theory, all that kind of stuff.
01:12:26.000 It's trippy.
01:12:27.000 Go back to those images.
01:12:28.000 That was a bunch of really cool ones.
01:12:32.000 Is that him right there?
01:12:34.000 Nope.
01:12:34.000 Who's that guy?
01:12:35.000 Probably just a teacher.
01:12:37.000 Just a guy.
01:12:38.000 Those images that you showed in that graph, you know what that reminds me of?
01:12:42.000 Do you remember the movie Arrival?
01:12:43.000 Yeah.
01:12:44.000 He was the designer of the language.
01:12:47.000 Ah, well that makes sense.
01:12:50.000 He was tasked, such a cool task as a physicist.
01:12:53.000 Oh my god.
01:12:54.000 It's like, can you design a method by which the aliens might be communicating with us?
01:12:59.000 God, I mean, that looks like it.
01:13:01.000 Or similar too.
01:13:02.000 But there was a math behind it.
01:13:04.000 So the language he developed, there was a mathematical relation to the language.
01:13:09.000 Him and his son.
01:13:11.000 You know, when you get this far down the intellectual rabbit hole, how many people actually understand this to the point where they can read it, describe it accurately?
01:13:25.000 This is interesting.
01:13:26.000 That's the problem with the theory of everything, is very few physicists really understand the details involved.
01:13:34.000 You have to be...
01:13:35.000 It's the same as the order of magnitude of professional comedians, I would say.
01:13:38.000 It's like thousands, maybe less than a thousand.
01:13:41.000 On the whole planet.
01:13:42.000 On the whole planet.
01:13:42.000 But the cool thing about the Wolfram thing, set physics aside, it's just the part that a lot of people can understand, and I highly recommend curious undergrads, and really you don't need to know how to program...
01:13:58.000 They understand how those beautiful things and the language in the movie Arrival can grow from simple rules.
01:14:07.000 You can play with it.
01:14:10.000 It's one of the most beautiful in terms of maybe take some mushrooms and if you want to see a beautiful concept is have a system that's really simple, like a few dots, like a tic-tac-toe board.
01:14:23.000 And have rules that apply to that board that are really simple.
01:14:26.000 One simple rule.
01:14:27.000 And like the beautiful patterns that emerge.
01:14:29.000 Give me an example of a rule like that.
01:14:32.000 So the rule for the game of life, for something like a tic-tac-toe board, is a cell that's white is dead.
01:14:42.000 A cell that's black is alive, let's say.
01:14:45.000 And when three of the cell's neighbors are also alive, then you live on.
01:14:52.000 Otherwise you die, meaning you flip.
01:14:58.000 When you have three neighbors, I might be getting the exact rule wrong for the game of life, but each cell only looks at its neighbors.
01:15:07.000 And when a certain number of neighbors is alive, I think it's three, Then you continue being black, you continue being alive.
01:15:14.000 Otherwise you die.
01:15:15.000 It's a live-die.
01:15:16.000 You're just a single cell sitting there and you live and die based on your neighbors.
01:15:20.000 I mean, it's very simple.
01:15:22.000 You think, what can be created from that?
01:15:26.000 And you can create Everything in the known universe from that.
01:15:30.000 People have created computers from a Turing machine.
01:15:34.000 The patterns that emerge, you can create all these kinds of fractals.
01:15:37.000 You think it would create some kind of repeatable, regular pattern or something like that.
01:15:42.000 It would be something dumb.
01:15:43.000 But it can create these...
01:15:45.000 One really important thing is the cell...
01:15:50.000 It just knows about itself.
01:15:52.000 It doesn't move, it just knows about itself.
01:15:54.000 But when you zoom out and you look at the result from the system, it looks like there's objects running around.
01:16:00.000 Like, the individual cells aren't running around, but it looks like the objects are running around.
01:16:05.000 You can have messengers, you can have what are called spaceships, which are these mechanisms that use the cells and move around.
01:16:12.000 Like, if you have any GIFs or videos of it, There's stuff that moves, and it seems like it's intelligent objects that communicate with each other, and all of that emerges.
01:16:23.000 If you just think about it a little bit, you have to remind yourself that this animation right there, it looks like there's a moving object.
01:16:32.000 I think these are called glider guns or something like that, where they shoot off objects of different kinds.
01:16:40.000 But the individual cell knows nothing about anything except itself and its nearest neighbors.
01:16:46.000 And as a result, you can nevertheless have arbitrary complexity, objects of arbitrary size that move around, that live and die, like I said, do any kind of computation in the world.
01:17:00.000 It makes you realize that it's possible that this universe is just some simple dumb rules On a scale of 10 to the 120. Like an ant colony that just scaled to an arbitrary degree.
01:17:18.000 And then we're like these clueless apes.
01:17:22.000 They're just the result of that.
01:17:24.000 We're not able to perceive at all the much, much smaller level the simplicity that's happening to us.
01:17:34.000 All of this seems...
01:17:38.000 It seems complicated to us.
01:17:40.000 This table seems like it's wood.
01:17:43.000 We don't perceive the atoms.
01:17:45.000 We don't perceive the quantum mechanics.
01:17:46.000 We don't perceive whether it's strength theory or something like Wolfram is saying.
01:17:50.000 Like these objects that are interacting at a far smaller than the microscopic level.
01:17:57.000 But it might be that there are really simple rules that just create all of this.
01:18:02.000 It seems complicated to us, but it's something that I think is nice to appreciate for people from all walks of life.
01:18:10.000 How much complexity created from simplicity, from simple rules.
01:18:15.000 How much richness, beauty, just could be created from simple rules.
01:18:21.000 Isn't it also really interesting that everything tends to move towards greater and greater complexity?
01:18:27.000 Well, so this is I think really important and it's surprising.
01:18:34.000 In general, the second law of thermodynamics says that everything becomes more chaotic.
01:18:41.000 So it's not complex, it becomes more boring.
01:18:43.000 The heat death in the universe, that everything moves apart, everything becomes random.
01:18:48.000 Eventually.
01:18:48.000 Eventually.
01:18:49.000 But the thing is that there's pockets of complexity.
01:18:53.000 And these pockets keep getting created of some interesting stuff.
01:18:57.000 Us little, like chimps, interesting stuff keeps getting created.
01:19:01.000 It's not obvious that that should be the case.
01:19:03.000 But just life in general.
01:19:04.000 Life in general.
01:19:04.000 If you go from single-celled organisms, you go from bacteria to what we know now as human beings.
01:19:11.000 Just think of all the different steps that had to take place.
01:19:16.000 And it moves towards greater and greater complexity, greater and greater ability to manipulate their environment, greater and greater ability to understand tools and 3D space, and how to manipulate things.
01:19:28.000 One of the things that I've always been fascinated about with the concept of aliens is What if the general direction that we're leaning in as a society, like if you think about human beings today, we're so much more civilized than human beings were 5,000 years ago.
01:19:45.000 We're a different thing.
01:19:46.000 We're less murderous.
01:19:48.000 We're less inclined to be physical.
01:19:52.000 We have much more access to inventions, much more access to technology.
01:19:57.000 Technology was non-existent back then.
01:19:59.000 We have electricity.
01:19:59.000 We have computers.
01:20:01.000 We have all these different things.
01:20:03.000 But it's moving in this direction more rapidly now than ever before in terms of the innovation of objects and ideas.
01:20:10.000 If you go back to a computer, like I remember I got a flat screen computer for the first, I don't remember when it was, but I remember I looked at one in 1995, I think it was, and it was like $20,000 in 95, and it was basically the size of that panel.
01:20:27.000 And it was like a flat...
01:20:29.000 I forget what the technology was at the time.
01:20:32.000 It wasn't LCD. Plasma.
01:20:36.000 That's what it was.
01:20:37.000 It was a plasma television.
01:20:38.000 And it looked like dark shit.
01:20:40.000 But it was thin.
01:20:41.000 Fairly thin.
01:20:42.000 But today it would look like a brick.
01:20:44.000 Like a crude mud brick that someone made in the jungle.
01:20:47.000 It looked terrible.
01:20:49.000 And I was like, that's ridiculous.
01:20:50.000 I'm not spending that much money on that fucking thing.
01:20:52.000 That's crazy.
01:20:53.000 So I got a regular TV. But now you can get a TV like that for nothing.
01:20:57.000 You get a TV that size that's far better.
01:21:00.000 Like an LCD screen, beautiful 4K, for like $100 or something like that.
01:21:05.000 It's amazing how much the technology has changed, how much better it's gotten.
01:21:09.000 20 years.
01:21:10.000 20 years.
01:21:11.000 That's a blink of an eye in terms of the history of the world, right?
01:21:14.000 And then you stop and think about iPhone 1. iPhone 1 was 10 years ago.
01:21:18.000 13 now.
01:21:19.000 2007. And it looks terrible.
01:21:22.000 You ever pick one up?
01:21:23.000 I still have one.
01:21:24.000 I found one when I was moving out here.
01:21:25.000 I found an old phone of mine.
01:21:27.000 I'm like, look at this hunk of shit.
01:21:28.000 It's crazy.
01:21:29.000 It's small.
01:21:31.000 It's clunky.
01:21:32.000 The screen looks terrible.
01:21:33.000 The camera's dogshit.
01:21:35.000 It's just everything about it.
01:21:36.000 Slow.
01:21:38.000 Awkward.
01:21:39.000 Now you go to what I have now.
01:21:41.000 I have iPhone 11 and it's 11 years or 13 years later.
01:21:45.000 It's infinitely better.
01:21:47.000 It's so much better.
01:21:48.000 The camera, the zoom capability.
01:21:50.000 And then there's this giant technological race for Samsung's coming out with a new Note 20 Ultra with fucking 100x zoom or all these different things that are happening.
01:22:01.000 We're in this weird technology race.
01:22:03.000 If you looked at us from afar and you said, well, what does this organism do?
01:22:08.000 What does this human organism do?
01:22:09.000 Well, it does a lot of things.
01:22:10.000 It creates culture.
01:22:12.000 It has different rules and religions.
01:22:14.000 Okay, okay, okay.
01:22:15.000 But what does it do?
01:22:16.000 What's the end result?
01:22:18.000 Bees make honey.
01:22:19.000 What do people do?
01:22:20.000 They make technology.
01:22:21.000 And one of the things that we do in terms of keeping up with the Joneses, materialism, all these different weird traits that human beings have...
01:22:30.000 What they lend themselves to is technological innovation.
01:22:33.000 Because if you're a materialist, you want the newest, latest, greatest thing.
01:22:36.000 What year is that car?
01:22:37.000 2018?
01:22:38.000 Oh, you haven't seen the 2021. It's so much better.
01:22:40.000 The 2018 car is fucking fine.
01:22:42.000 It'll get you around.
01:22:43.000 But if you want to impress people, you've got to have the 2021. Well, one of the things that's weird about people is how materialistic we are.
01:22:53.000 So materialistic.
01:22:54.000 There's so many Instagram pages that are just filled with people with nice houses and, look at my shit, look at all my watches, look at all my this, look at all my that.
01:23:01.000 I mean, this is the thing that drives consumers.
01:23:06.000 It drives commerce.
01:23:07.000 And commerce drives innovation.
01:23:11.000 Innovation drives technology.
01:23:13.000 Technology is what we create.
01:23:14.000 We just do it in a weird way.
01:23:16.000 We do it through sex.
01:23:17.000 We do it through social status.
01:23:19.000 We do it through the need for respect, for envy, all these different things.
01:23:25.000 But all of that really does do is drive technology.
01:23:29.000 Because that's ultimately the end of the line.
01:23:31.000 If you look at the big history, one of the quotes that Elon tweeted is from Andre Karpathy, the head of Tesla Autopilot.
01:23:40.000 Shout out to Andre, one of the great machine learning engineers of our time.
01:23:44.000 His quote was, if you bombard Earth with photons long enough, eventually it will emit a Tesla.
01:23:51.000 So, like, you basically, if you look from the very origins, it's like, you just, the sun just needed to provide some energy to this thing, like, heat it up a little bit, and eventually they'll start creating Teslas, and then emit them into space.
01:24:03.000 It'll start to have, like, rockets.
01:24:05.000 I mean, it's, uh...
01:24:06.000 Well, it's true.
01:24:07.000 Yeah, it's true.
01:24:08.000 I mean, it has happened, so...
01:24:10.000 But it's accelerating.
01:24:12.000 This is why, I mean, again, the Elon sort of exponential growth idea, I mean, it just seems to be getting faster and faster and faster, which is us humans aren't able to reason that way.
01:24:23.000 Like, most of the technology we see around us is about 100 years worth, 150, electricity, radio, TV. Most of the medical innovations from antibiotics to surgery,
01:24:40.000 to most of the innovations in biology and chemistry, modern physics, even obviously computers, internet, all of that.
01:24:51.000 So it's 100 years, 150 years maybe.
01:24:53.000 And it's accelerating.
01:24:54.000 And so, our ability to think, like, what is possible in the next 10-20 years is flawed.
01:25:04.000 I mean, that's one, like, we talked about Neuralink.
01:25:06.000 That's why there's a lot of people kind of You know, unable to reason how quickly people in the scientific community are aware of how little or how limited our understanding of the human brain is on the neurobiological level,
01:25:26.000 just neuroscience.
01:25:27.000 Just the basic functional, at the functional level, like how the brain functions.
01:25:34.000 And so they think like, well, many of the possibilities that are especially exciting with the technology like brain-computer interfaces, like with Neuralink, must be 100, 200, 300 years away.
01:25:48.000 But the way things are accelerating, it's very possible that it's 50 years away, 30 years away.
01:25:55.000 Like the ability to digitize memories, you know, to be able to replay memories, to digitize like Ray Kurzweil dreams about, digitize the minds of humans.
01:26:06.000 So immortality.
01:26:09.000 You know, like I mentioned, Sarah Seager, people should check out her new book, it's a memoir, but she searches for exoplanets.
01:26:17.000 She was one of the key people in discovering new exoplanets.
01:26:22.000 And Proxima Centauri is the closest that we think of Earth-like planet, or at least habitable planet out there.
01:26:32.000 And that seems to be too far away, unless you're able to digitize humans.
01:26:36.000 So, as she said, the easiest way to travel to that planet to see if there's extraterrestrial life out there Is to digitize a human and send them on a ship.
01:26:49.000 Because you can then travel much, much faster than we could otherwise.
01:26:53.000 And you can have multi-generational, obviously, travel because a digital form of a human mind, of consciousness, intelligence, all that kind of stuff, you know, it could travel for...
01:27:06.000 For millennia, right?
01:27:08.000 And so that's an exciting possibility.
01:27:11.000 And most people would say that, you know, we don't really understand much about the mind, and in order to understand enough about the mind to be able to digitally convert it, to digitally store it, and be able to ship it to Proxima Centauri would be centuries.
01:27:27.000 One of the exciting things about Neuralink to me in the long term is that they're really pushing, instead of making it centuries, making it decades.
01:27:38.000 Just like bringing together the best engineers and scientists in the world and saying this is ripe with innovation.
01:27:52.000 There's a possibility here to do something truly special.
01:27:58.000 Not only to help people with neurological disorders, which is a huge, obviously, goal, mission, a dream to alleviate suffering, right?
01:28:09.000 That's as good of a mission for a group of scientists as any.
01:28:14.000 But also that we can understand the mind, we can expand different capacities of the mind, like expand intelligence, expand consciousness, expand all the different kinds of capabilities of the mind, and be able to digitally restore that mind.
01:28:30.000 So understand it to a degree to where we can copy it, to where we can store it, to where we can transmit it out to distant stars and to meet our alien friends in digital form.
01:28:42.000 That's a mind-blowing mission for us chimps.
01:28:48.000 Yeah, that's what I wonder when I think about alien life and that tic-tac UFO that David Fravor saw.
01:28:56.000 The idea that that would be biological, that there would be some sort of biological life inside of it seems a little retro.
01:29:05.000 Right.
01:29:05.000 So everything about that seems retro, about our interpretation of it.
01:29:09.000 Like one thing is, David's general inclination, as I think he said on your podcast with him, is like he wants to fly that thing.
01:29:17.000 His first thought was like, I want to fly that thing.
01:29:20.000 That's like finding an animal on another planet.
01:29:22.000 I want to fuck it.
01:29:24.000 Is that a giraffe?
01:29:25.000 I want to fuck that space giraffe.
01:29:27.000 My question to him was like, why did you think that's something you could fly?
01:29:32.000 That to me seems preposterous.
01:29:36.000 It could be a thing that could be flied.
01:29:39.000 It's preposterous to me that there's an alien on board.
01:29:44.000 It could be just reconnaissance.
01:29:48.000 It could be what life becomes.
01:29:51.000 One of the things that I've been thinking about when it comes to Neuralink and all sorts of medical innovations in terms of artificial limbs and different prosthetics that people are able to concoct today is How close are we to those being better than the biological alternatives, right?
01:30:06.000 Like, how close are we to that?
01:30:08.000 Like, if you lose your arm, they actually give you a $6 million man arm that's better.
01:30:12.000 You remember that movie?
01:30:13.000 That TV show?
01:30:14.000 Steve Austin, the man barely alive.
01:30:16.000 Remember that?
01:30:17.000 Do you?
01:30:17.000 You're not old enough.
01:30:18.000 When I was a kid.
01:30:34.000 And they rebuilt him with artificial parts.
01:30:37.000 But the artificial parts, he had legs.
01:30:39.000 He could run 60 miles an hour.
01:30:41.000 He had a hand.
01:30:42.000 He could fucking just crush you with his hand.
01:30:44.000 It was wild stuff, man.
01:30:47.000 It was fun.
01:30:48.000 But it was just science fiction television.
01:30:51.000 But if they do get to a point where they have legs that work better than your legs and they feel like your legs.
01:30:58.000 Like, I have friends that have fake hips.
01:31:01.000 I have friends that have resurfaced hips and resurfaced knees where they've, you know, terrible arthritis or cartilage damage and they've just replaced the part.
01:31:10.000 And now they work.
01:31:12.000 Now it works great.
01:31:12.000 They can do things.
01:31:14.000 Like, my friend with his bad hip, he runs with this fake hip.
01:31:19.000 John Wayne Parr, the Muay Thai kickboxer, he's throwing kicks now with his fake hip.
01:31:25.000 He just got his, his leg was fixed.
01:31:28.000 Two months ago, I think?
01:31:29.000 And on his Instagram, he's got him throwing high kicks with this resurfaced left leg.
01:31:36.000 It's crazy.
01:31:37.000 When is it going to come to a point in time where they can replace your eyes with better versions of what you have now?
01:31:44.000 And they work better.
01:31:45.000 I know you're scared, but it's no big deal.
01:31:47.000 It's like glasses, but it's way better.
01:31:49.000 We're going to put these things in where your eyes used to be.
01:31:52.000 They're magnetic.
01:31:53.000 Women love them.
01:31:54.000 If you don't have them, you're going to look like a loser.
01:31:56.000 What do you got?
01:31:56.000 Biological eyes?
01:31:58.000 What if these things that we're seeing are the ultimate symbiotic interaction of biology or the initial biology and technology?
01:32:10.000 What if Neuralink is just one step into us essentially giving up our biological heritage and becoming a part of This idea of artificial life is a weird word, right?
01:32:25.000 Because it's not artificial.
01:32:26.000 It's right there.
01:32:27.000 It's real.
01:32:28.000 Maybe it's made with things that are different than cells, but it's still life.
01:32:35.000 It's a thing.
01:32:36.000 Like, if you can create, you know, like the Turing test, right?
01:32:39.000 Like, you create something that seems so real and interacts with you and can trick you, and it can trick someone who thinks Like the movie Ex Machina.
01:32:49.000 I fell in love with that robot lady.
01:32:52.000 And you would too.
01:32:53.000 She was hot.
01:32:54.000 She seemed really nice.
01:32:56.000 Why am I so hung up on biology?
01:32:58.000 What's the big deal?
01:33:00.000 If that becomes what people are, if you can download your consciousness into something that looks like a human being and your consciousness rides around in this This technological creation.
01:33:18.000 Maybe that's what aliens are.
01:33:19.000 And maybe that's what we need to do to get past these territorial ape instincts that we have to look at a spaceship and go, I want to fly that.
01:33:28.000 Let's look at an animal.
01:33:29.000 I want to fuck it.
01:33:30.000 The idea of wanting to go over to a place and dominate it.
01:33:36.000 I think one of the key things we might be able to get past is the I in that sentence.
01:33:43.000 The concept of individuality.
01:33:44.000 The concept that I am this meat bucket that's like...
01:33:52.000 That somehow is special and unique and so on.
01:33:55.000 The ego.
01:33:55.000 The ego, the consciousness, like it feels like something to be me as opposed to like maybe I'm just like a little fingertip of a much larger organism.
01:34:07.000 And being able to see it like, you know, it's very possible that what intelligent life forms look like is something much less individualistic.
01:34:19.000 Like if we look...
01:34:20.000 At ant colonies, and if we think of the individual ants, it's a very different way to think about life on Earth than the collection of the ants together.
01:34:31.000 Or if we look at the collection of the humans together as an intelligent organism, Combined with the technology that we're creating, all of that becomes almost a single organism that's becoming more and more intelligent.
01:34:44.000 The idea that there is a hard line between biology and digital technology that we're developing, it really, from an outsider's perspective, that line doesn't exist.
01:34:55.000 We're all an interesting complicated mush.
01:34:59.000 That doesn't have a concept of individuals, doesn't have a concept of ego or individual consciousnesses.
01:35:07.000 It's all one thing and we're just adding more to it.
01:35:12.000 With Neuralink, people kind of think that there's going to be some kind of leap into a totally transformative You know, a thing that totally changes the very nature of our civilization,
01:35:27.000 I think it'll just all be gradual, just like from iPhone 1 and 2 and 3. All this technology will slowly expand our capabilities.
01:35:36.000 It won't...
01:35:38.000 Just like the human eye developed through evolution, the eye developed through evolution.
01:35:43.000 It was gradual.
01:35:44.000 It wasn't like it just appeared.
01:35:45.000 It's just something that slowly allowed you to sense the environment better and better and better and better.
01:35:50.000 And eventually something as nice and crisp and sexy as the human eye emerged.
01:35:55.000 And, you know, the other concern people have is with, like, surgery and so on.
01:36:00.000 That's also really, you know, it's a difficult thing.
01:36:05.000 Like, I got LASIK surgery, for example.
01:36:07.000 You mentioned eyes.
01:36:09.000 That was a scary thing to get.
01:36:11.000 Yeah, I imagine.
01:36:12.000 When did you get it?
01:36:13.000 Five years ago, maybe.
01:36:15.000 How'd it go?
01:36:16.000 It's like a lot of people talk about it.
01:36:20.000 When I woke up next morning, I could see for the first time.
01:36:26.000 It was beautiful.
01:36:27.000 I was kind of angry that I didn't do it earlier.
01:36:31.000 That's what a lot of people describe as their experience.
01:36:35.000 Now, what happened a week later...
01:36:37.000 Is I forgot what it's like to not be that.
01:36:41.000 I took it for granted basically a day later, but like a week later, it was like I wasn't...
01:36:47.000 I already forgot the entire magic of the experience.
01:36:50.000 And that's what I think will just keep happening is there's this gradual little step, this little leap into a future that everyone will go and say, wow, it's kind of cool.
01:37:01.000 And then they'll forget it was cool and then they'll go back on Twitter to complain about some divisiveness that's happening in politics today.
01:37:09.000 They'll just constantly, you know, will all of a sudden have a capability to have some extra level of telepathic communication, for example, in 40 years.
01:37:20.000 And then people would just be like, just like we got used to swipe writing on the phone, at first people would be like, I don't know, I'm not sure I want the government to know what I'm thinking.
01:37:34.000 Next they'll just try it out and be like, oh, it's kind of cool, much easier to type on Twitter.
01:37:38.000 And then next they'll just be like, that's it, we're all just communicating telepathically.
01:37:43.000 Well, there'll still be so many pros to it, to not ever being able to lie.
01:37:49.000 I mean, if we're forced out, I mean, one of the biggest problems with people is being deceptive.
01:37:54.000 Like, we have this ability to communicate.
01:37:56.000 We use sounds that relay intent.
01:37:59.000 And then you listen, you know, you go into your own dictionary and your own concept of what these words mean.
01:38:06.000 And then you convey what you think I'm saying.
01:38:11.000 You interpret what you think I'm saying.
01:38:13.000 But I could be a bullshit artist, right?
01:38:15.000 Like a lot of people are.
01:38:16.000 Like when you talk to someone who's a psychic and they say, you have a relationship with...
01:38:24.000 There's a woman.
01:38:26.000 Yes.
01:38:27.000 There's a woman.
01:38:28.000 Keep talking.
01:38:29.000 She...
01:38:29.000 You're not close, but you should be.
01:38:34.000 There's...
01:38:35.000 Yes, yes, we should be.
01:38:36.000 Who's this person in your life?
01:38:38.000 That's my mother.
01:38:40.000 You know what I'm saying?
01:38:43.000 This is what that is.
01:38:44.000 If you could really look into their head and go, hey, fuckface, you don't see anything.
01:38:48.000 You're lying to me.
01:38:50.000 You're pulling on my heartstrings.
01:38:52.000 You know I'm lonely.
01:38:54.000 You're trying to manipulate me so that you can make money.
01:38:56.000 Or you're talking to my dead mom.
01:38:58.000 Your mother wants you to be happy.
01:39:00.000 She wants you to donate your money to charity.
01:39:03.000 This person's not really talking to your mom.
01:39:05.000 They're liars.
01:39:06.000 And there's a lot of those people out there.
01:39:08.000 All that would go away.
01:39:09.000 All the bank fraud and manipulation, politics, all that will go away.
01:39:16.000 A politician won't be able to lie because you'll be able to look right into their fucking head.
01:39:20.000 You'll be able to like, oh, they don't care at all about America.
01:39:24.000 Or, hey, he's a really good person that really does think that we can get along.
01:39:27.000 We really can work together.
01:39:29.000 We have enough resources.
01:39:30.000 We should behave as a community, as a giant 300 million people community.
01:39:36.000 And that's possible.
01:39:37.000 It can be done.
01:39:38.000 And like, look at this.
01:39:39.000 That guy's a murderer.
01:39:40.000 We didn't even know.
01:39:40.000 This guy's walking around.
01:39:41.000 He murdered three people.
01:39:42.000 You'll be able to see.
01:39:43.000 You'll be able to see into people's minds.
01:39:45.000 You'll be able to know.
01:39:47.000 All this stuff is incredibly tempting.
01:39:49.000 When you think of something like Neuralink, or once there's something like that, there'll be multiple different versions of it after a while.
01:39:57.000 When those innovations start to roll out, what we'll give up It'll be just like all the other aspects of technology.
01:40:06.000 We will give some things up, and there'll be a bunch of people that do reminisce for the retro days.
01:40:10.000 Like, oh, the good old days when you wanted to send a letter, you had to write it down on paper, and a dude on a horse, like a fucking...
01:40:17.000 Like, who's that dude?
01:40:18.000 Kevin Costner movie, The Postman.
01:40:20.000 Remember that?
01:40:21.000 A terrible fucking movie about post-apocalyptic postman who was, like, the most important guy because he can get your letters.
01:40:29.000 But that kind of shit, like...
01:40:32.000 We give up something to get this new thing, and then we decide this new thing.
01:40:38.000 Very few people are giving up their cell phones and going to flip phones.
01:40:41.000 Very few people are going no phone at all.
01:40:44.000 Very few.
01:40:46.000 What's the matter, Jamie?
01:40:48.000 Just read the poster real quick.
01:40:49.000 I put it up on the screen.
01:40:51.000 The year...
01:40:52.000 2013. 2013. One man walked off the horizon, and hope came with him.
01:40:59.000 I love Kilo Kostner.
01:41:01.000 You know what the greatest movie of all time is?
01:41:03.000 Waterworld.
01:41:05.000 No, it's not.
01:41:06.000 It's a terrible movie.
01:41:07.000 But you know what's good?
01:41:08.000 The Waterworld show at Universal in Hollywood.
01:41:11.000 But I don't think they can do it anymore.
01:41:13.000 I think California is so goddamn draconian in their restrictions.
01:41:16.000 I think they've got it locked down.
01:41:17.000 But that Waterworld movie, that is Citizen Kane compared to The Postman.
01:41:24.000 The Postman is a steaming pile of shit.
01:41:28.000 It's so bad.
01:41:29.000 It is a really bad movie.
01:41:31.000 LAUGHTER Actually, Kevin Costner can make really bad movies and make them somehow watchable.
01:41:39.000 He makes really great movies, too.
01:41:41.000 Dances with Wolves is fucking incredible, and that's all him.
01:41:44.000 He's made some awesome stuff, no doubt about it.
01:41:46.000 I like the pros and cons.
01:41:50.000 I really like the replay of Memory.
01:41:52.000 I don't know if that connects with you.
01:41:54.000 The idea of that?
01:41:56.000 The idea of that.
01:41:57.000 I remember...
01:41:58.000 It sounds weird, but...
01:42:01.000 I got a chance to talk to Elon afterwards, and he had this funny comment.
01:42:06.000 He thinks in weird ways, right?
01:42:10.000 But his comment was that if we one day will be able to replay memories, I wonder if this is a memory that you and I would choose.
01:42:20.000 And it made me think like...
01:42:22.000 I certainly would.
01:42:26.000 I would probably replay this very podcast in my mind, this experience.
01:42:31.000 I remember, you do this a lot, but for me it was a special experience.
01:42:37.000 I was sitting with you and Eric Weinstein at the back of the comedy store.
01:42:43.000 I remember during that moment, I'm awkward and scared and nervous.
01:42:46.000 I remember thinking like, I didn't want to take pictures, but I wanted to store this.
01:42:53.000 Because it felt like a historic moment.
01:42:56.000 Just that lineup, it was like the who's who of comedy, doing just short little bits of comedy that entire night.
01:43:04.000 It just felt like...
01:43:06.000 It felt like history.
01:43:08.000 I stepped into the Coliseum and got to hang out with the gladiators.
01:43:16.000 It felt like that had to end at some point.
01:43:19.000 I get rushed and I start to think about how this is going to end.
01:43:23.000 But it felt like this is going to have to end eventually.
01:43:27.000 Well, you were right.
01:43:30.000 It ended with a virus.
01:43:31.000 It's a virus and it's an end of an era, but that was a special moment and I would want to replay that.
01:43:37.000 It's hard.
01:43:38.000 I have similar feelings about how special it was, but it was hard for me in the moment to think about it because...
01:43:46.000 Although I did appreciate it as much as I could in the moment, you can't dwell on it too much because you're in the middle of a creative process.
01:43:54.000 Like, stand-up comedy is an ever-changing, constantly evolving process.
01:43:59.000 When I have an act, I get it to a point where I can...
01:44:04.000 I imagine recording it.
01:44:06.000 And then I record it and then I start over.
01:44:08.000 But during the whole time of making it, I'm always tweaking it.
01:44:12.000 It's never done.
01:44:13.000 It's just, it's constantly being fucked with.
01:44:16.000 I'm constantly putting this first and that second and switching the order and...
01:44:21.000 Doing this part of the bit in the beginning and then switching it to the end and then adding something and maybe being more sneaky with how I reveal the punchline or how I do this and that.
01:44:32.000 And so there's this process that's constantly going on.
01:44:35.000 You can't go...
01:44:36.000 I mean, I know and I knew during a time like this really is the golden age of comedy.
01:44:41.000 It's a very special time in this very special place.
01:44:44.000 I knew that.
01:44:46.000 But...
01:44:47.000 I also knew that I couldn't think of that.
01:44:50.000 I just had to keep moving.
01:44:52.000 That's the comedy side, but what about the back of the comedy store?
01:44:57.000 The camaraderie of it.
01:45:00.000 When is the next time, say we reopen the economy, when is the next time there's going to be all those comedians showing up regularly to one place?
01:45:08.000 A lot of us have moved, unfortunately.
01:45:11.000 Joey Diaz moved to New Jersey for now.
01:45:13.000 What is that about?
01:45:14.000 Thank you, thank you.
01:45:18.000 He's slowly becoming the Sopranos show.
01:45:20.000 Listen, once the winter kicks in and he understands that he fucked up, I'm going to call him.
01:45:26.000 I'm going to present Texas as a viable opportunity.
01:45:30.000 Hopefully by then I'll have a club here.
01:45:32.000 The number one goal...
01:45:34.000 See, the goal was to get here, set up shop, put together this studio.
01:45:38.000 Okay, we got that going.
01:45:40.000 We're up and running.
01:45:41.000 Now, goal number two is a comedy club.
01:45:43.000 Goal number three is a ranch.
01:45:45.000 Goal number three is we have a podcast ranch.
01:45:48.000 And we do all kinds of wacky shit there.
01:45:50.000 You've got to come back to the ranch.
01:45:52.000 We're going to have...
01:45:55.000 Is Duncan Charleston going to live on the ranch?
01:45:56.000 Oh, fuck yeah.
01:45:58.000 Guaranteed Duncan will come.
01:45:59.000 By the way, as just a fan, Duncan is...
01:46:04.000 I heard you try to talk him into moving to Austin.
01:46:08.000 Yeah, he wants to move to North Carolina, though.
01:46:10.000 That's where he's from.
01:46:11.000 He's from Asheville.
01:46:13.000 And I think he has designs on that.
01:46:16.000 But if I could talk him into moving here...
01:46:18.000 One thing I'd tell...
01:46:19.000 We were both talking about doing a television show.
01:46:22.000 Or doing a podcast, rather.
01:46:24.000 Doing a show together.
01:46:25.000 I don't know why I said television show.
01:46:27.000 But he and I doing a show together, like a regular show, like maybe once a week.
01:46:32.000 Just me and him sitting down and shooting the shit and talking about life once a week.
01:46:36.000 I think we have a weird connection, he and I. We've known each other for so long.
01:46:40.000 He used to be my roommate.
01:46:41.000 He lived in my house for a little bit.
01:46:44.000 And, you know, I've known him since he was the guy who answered the phones at the comedy store.
01:46:49.000 I've known him forever since the beginning of his comedy career.
01:46:52.000 And we've always been real close.
01:46:55.000 And we're weird together.
01:46:56.000 We bring out something weird in each other.
01:46:59.000 Yeah, I mean, the positivity that he brings, he just has this weirdly positive view of the world, and yet, just like the crazy theories he has about the way the world is, he's a special human being.
01:47:15.000 He really is.
01:47:15.000 I'm glad that guy exists.
01:47:17.000 Me too.
01:47:17.000 And Joey Diaz is the other side of that.
01:47:19.000 Yeah, he's chaos.
01:47:21.000 Joey Diaz is chaos.
01:47:22.000 If there was an element called chaos and it had a physical manifestation where you could see an avatar of chaos, it's Joey Diaz.
01:47:33.000 He would always bring the party.
01:47:35.000 I always said whenever we would go on the road, Joey Diaz brings the party.
01:47:39.000 He was always the guy that was just like...
01:47:41.000 Like if we were out at dinner, Joey was always stealing the show.
01:47:44.000 He was always the funniest guy in the room.
01:47:46.000 He's always the madman.
01:47:48.000 And he also...
01:47:49.000 Joey Diaz works best when people love him.
01:47:52.000 Like when he's around people who love him.
01:47:54.000 And when he knows he can just be himself.
01:47:56.000 And so, you know, all of his crazy stories and preposterous exaggerations, over-the-top exaggerations about things, all done for comedy.
01:48:05.000 That's him.
01:48:06.000 I think, you know, when you watch great chess champions play against each other, or like great, like Muhammad Ali versus Frazier, was the moment when I saw Joey go against Alex Jones.
01:48:19.000 i thought because because you say crazy i thought like i thought like alex jones is the what is it the frazier like there's you know there's no way you can take that guy down in with the art of conversation but joey just took him apart well it was back when alex was on the radio too so joey's talking about storing weed under his balls and sneaking it in on a flight to texas and alex funny enough was censoring himself I know,
01:48:46.000 he was.
01:48:46.000 Well, this isn't real.
01:48:47.000 Hang on.
01:48:48.000 He's just joking around, ladies and gentlemen.
01:48:51.000 Yeah.
01:48:52.000 You know, and there's a lot of those characters out of the comedy store.
01:48:55.000 It's a special place.
01:48:57.000 You miss it?
01:48:58.000 Oh, yeah.
01:48:58.000 Yeah, I do.
01:48:59.000 But it doesn't exist right now.
01:49:01.000 And I'm a realist.
01:49:02.000 You know?
01:49:03.000 And also, the place that existed in Los Angeles is not the same Los Angeles.
01:49:10.000 That place is fucked right now.
01:49:12.000 It's fucked.
01:49:13.000 And the mayor's fucked, and the governor's fucked, and they've done a terrible job of managing the pandemic, and the place is in ruins.
01:49:21.000 It's a mess.
01:49:22.000 LA's a mess.
01:49:25.000 How does it get unfucked?
01:49:27.000 It's gonna take years.
01:49:29.000 So here's my worry.
01:49:30.000 So you have a different...
01:49:31.000 You know LA, you know the Comedy Store.
01:49:33.000 My worry, I got...
01:49:35.000 Not to brag, it's very weird.
01:49:38.000 But I got recognized on the way to here four times.
01:49:41.000 It was weird.
01:49:42.000 Congratulations.
01:49:43.000 It's very weird.
01:49:44.000 Listen, you're a celebrity.
01:49:45.000 Fuck you.
01:49:46.000 But I've never been recognized like that.
01:49:48.000 You've been on this podcast how many times now?
01:49:51.000 Five.
01:49:52.000 Five times.
01:49:53.000 So, do you know how many millions of people have seen you?
01:49:55.000 Yeah.
01:49:56.000 And I have the...
01:49:58.000 I mean, the podcast I do is a little more technical.
01:50:00.000 So, like, the kind of people that they don't...
01:50:04.000 I can see the difference between the people who recognize me from Rogan and the people who recognize me from the podcast I do.
01:50:13.000 They're usually just like you say, shaved head tattoos, or like jiu-jitsu, like cauliflower ears, like bro, and actually women too.
01:50:22.000 But then for guys, if you could tell like, okay, this guy's a CEO of some company or is a programmer, that's more of that.
01:50:30.000 Do you wear that suit and tie everywhere?
01:50:32.000 When you travel?
01:50:33.000 Suit, yeah.
01:50:34.000 Oh, travel usually because I hate traveling.
01:50:36.000 I'll go jeans and shirt.
01:50:38.000 Oh, okay.
01:50:38.000 Well, that's tricky.
01:50:39.000 That's my pajamas.
01:50:40.000 Yeah, that's how you sneak by.
01:50:42.000 Yeah.
01:50:42.000 Because this suit is your uniform.
01:50:44.000 They recognize me with the mask, too.
01:50:47.000 That's weird.
01:50:47.000 That was weird.
01:50:48.000 That's weird.
01:50:49.000 It makes you think, like, I recognize you from the eyes and the haircut.
01:50:53.000 Anyway, but the reason I bring that up...
01:50:55.000 That's so strange.
01:50:57.000 I apologize.
01:50:59.000 Two of the people actually mentioned that they're leaving San Francisco because they're tech people and one of them moved to Austin and they said that the people are fleeing San Francisco too.
01:51:13.000 Fleeing.
01:51:14.000 Fleeing.
01:51:14.000 That's the term.
01:51:15.000 Fleeing.
01:51:15.000 Yeah, and that's the right term because San Francisco is insane.
01:51:18.000 San Francisco has an app where you can find the human shit in the city because it's so numerous.
01:51:24.000 It's so prevalent.
01:51:25.000 So many bums are shitting in the streets that they have apps.
01:51:29.000 I like how you went to that.
01:51:31.000 I was referring to another aspect of it, which is it's not even San Francisco.
01:51:34.000 It's the entirety of Silicon Valley, which is there's very much a groupthink that moved away from a meritocracy of where we want to innovate and And change the world with our ideas to a little bit more like, you know, I don't know how to put it,
01:51:50.000 but kind of a groupthink that pushes against that.
01:51:55.000 And so people are trying to...
01:51:57.000 Pushes against that, how so?
01:51:59.000 Well, it...
01:52:01.000 I mean, that's what Jordan Peterson talks about.
01:52:04.000 It's the identity politics tends to try to silence the desire within people to judge based on meritocracy, based on skill, based on hard work, based on passion,
01:52:19.000 and so on.
01:52:20.000 It changes the topic of the conversation in a way that If you're a kid, guy or girl, who dreams of changing the world, you start a startup, the last thing you want to be doing is playing identity politics.
01:52:35.000 What you want is to hire the best people for the job, men or women, and you want to change the world.
01:52:40.000 You don't want to be playing discussions that are going on in gender studies, parts of academia.
01:52:49.000 And so there's a kind of groupthink that I think holds you back within places like Silicon Valley, within certain parts of academia.
01:52:59.000 I think these are important conversations to be had, but they need to be had in nuance without being a bully.
01:53:06.000 So most of the people that play identity politics, Twitter, they talk about all really good things.
01:53:14.000 They carry the flag of justice, of fairness, of equality, of respect and love.
01:53:21.000 That's like the flag, but what they do is they bully.
01:53:24.000 There's a toxic nature to it and they attack.
01:53:26.000 I get attacked actually for not having an equal distribution of women on the podcast where I interview.
01:53:35.000 That's something I work very much on.
01:53:37.000 Who attacks you for this?
01:53:40.000 A small percentage of people on Twitter, but they...
01:53:44.000 And I ignore...
01:53:45.000 I never respond, and I always send telepathically love.
01:53:50.000 I mean, that's all I can do.
01:53:53.000 There's two things.
01:53:54.000 One, there's probably been pain in their past.
01:53:56.000 They're hurting.
01:53:57.000 And two...
01:53:59.000 It's probably from their perspective enjoyable that social game to say I want the world to be more fair.
01:54:07.000 And saying that and then everybody like congratulates themselves and each other for saying I want the world to be more fair.
01:54:16.000 What they don't realize is by saying, by calling somebody like me A fraud or a sexist is absurd.
01:54:26.000 You're putting hate out there as opposed to love.
01:54:30.000 I'm annoyingly tweeting about love all the time.
01:54:36.000 I even annoy myself sometimes because I'll have a mood where I'm like, I've tweeted before, like, life is beautiful.
01:54:42.000 I legitimately, I was sitting like three at night and like with a stupid smile on my face and just like, this is awesome.
01:54:50.000 Life is awesome.
01:54:51.000 Life is awesome.
01:54:53.000 And then if you call me a fraud, like that's not the right place for the movement.
01:54:58.000 They do that because I'm probably an easy target because I'm like, look, there's a nice guy.
01:55:04.000 He looks weak.
01:55:05.000 Like, they think I'm weak.
01:55:06.000 And in the space of social justice warriors on Twitter, I am weak.
01:55:11.000 I wish we lived in a place of, like, where with equality and fairness, I could fight people to the death based on things I believe.
01:55:19.000 Like, gladiators, like, stand in front of each other.
01:55:22.000 As long as it's consensual, I would love to fight to the death for the ideas I believe in.
01:55:27.000 But on Twitter, that's not the battleground of ideas.
01:55:31.000 It's a weird, weird place.
01:55:33.000 Well, you're disconnected from...
01:55:38.000 It's an unnatural way to communicate.
01:55:40.000 It's one of the things we were talking about, about Neuralink, or something along those lines, that we could get to a place where you could actually read someone's thoughts.
01:55:49.000 I mean, do you know how gross it would look if you could actually see virtue signaling in an actual clear manifestation?
01:55:57.000 Like, oh, I see what you're doing.
01:55:59.000 Read your mind.
01:56:01.000 You're hoping someone's going to love you by saying mean things.
01:56:04.000 You're hoping that women are going to say, thank you for being a champion of women, Mike.
01:56:08.000 You know, like, for standing up.
01:56:11.000 Lex doesn't have enough of us on his podcast.
01:56:13.000 We need equal representation.
01:56:15.000 We need equality of outcome.
01:56:17.000 You know, and this is what identity politics is all about.
01:56:21.000 It's all about calling people out.
01:56:23.000 But really what it's about is finding targets and attacking.
01:56:26.000 And very little gets done in a positive way.
01:56:29.000 If you look at, like, what's the positive aspect of identity politics?
01:56:32.000 Like, what's over the course of the last five years?
01:56:35.000 What good has been done?
01:56:36.000 Well, people are terrified.
01:56:38.000 You know, a lot of people have attacked people on Twitter.
01:56:41.000 But how much good has been done?
01:56:42.000 Well, it's complicated.
01:56:44.000 I always try to find the silver lining in things.
01:56:50.000 The way I think about it, first of all, I've become more conscious of the fact that there's douchebags in this world.
01:56:57.000 In terms of there was a lot of sexism in academia, for example.
01:57:01.000 Just like boys club stuff.
01:57:05.000 It's fundamentally disrespectful towards women.
01:57:09.000 That's out there.
01:57:10.000 There's douchebags.
01:57:11.000 And they're often...
01:57:13.000 You know how Joe Biden touches...
01:57:16.000 Like people's hair?
01:57:17.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:57:18.000 There's a creepiness to the way people behaved and I think...
01:57:21.000 Well, they have power.
01:57:23.000 Power, yeah.
01:57:23.000 Whenever people have power, they behave in a weird way.
01:57:27.000 If you're a guy and you're a professor, like traditionally, professors fuck their students, right?
01:57:35.000 I mean, one of the most common things was like the professor and the graduate student.
01:57:44.000 Let's rephrase that.
01:57:45.000 In the 60s, the 70s?
01:57:47.000 I don't know if that's traditional, but I have seen...
01:57:49.000 It's common.
01:57:51.000 It was very, very, very common.
01:57:54.000 Now, it can get you in deep shit.
01:57:57.000 Now, it can get you deplatformed.
01:57:58.000 It can get you fired by the university.
01:58:00.000 It has a lot of downsides because you're getting in the way of love, but it has an upside that you're getting in the way of douchebags.
01:58:06.000 So, cancel culture, you know, you have Jordan Peterson getting millions of views, highlighting the ridiculousness of cancel culture, but at the same time, cancel culture also helps highlight the real douchebags out there.
01:58:21.000 Yes.
01:58:24.000 The ridiculous aspects, the overextension of the MeToo movement is arguably worth the positives created.
01:58:36.000 Ultimately.
01:58:37.000 Ultimately.
01:58:37.000 So maybe not in the moment.
01:58:39.000 Not to the people that were wrongly accused.
01:58:41.000 Right.
01:58:41.000 But if you look 20 years from now, it would probably lead to progress.
01:58:45.000 Yeah, it's like saying Genghis Khan was good for trade.
01:58:48.000 He opened up the path of trade to the East.
01:58:50.000 Well, I mean, people make the same argument for Hitler.
01:58:55.000 Yeah.
01:58:55.000 He rebuilt the German economy.
01:58:59.000 And so, that argument, nobody makes the argument that, like, hmm, on the overall, Hitler was good for the humanity.
01:59:07.000 But, like, so I don't think, but, you know...
01:59:11.000 Yeah, I think you're right.
01:59:12.000 I think overall it's good.
01:59:13.000 It's good that, listen, I'm not a woman working in an office with a boss that is treating me like shit and wants to fuck me and sexually harassing me.
01:59:22.000 And I would imagine that would make your life hell.
01:59:25.000 I can't imagine if I was a woman and I had to kiss some guy's ass in order to get a promotion and this guy would make disgusting remarks about me and try to fuck me.
01:59:38.000 Or worse.
01:59:39.000 Or actually physically do something to you.
01:59:41.000 I would imagine it would be terrible.
01:59:43.000 So that...
01:59:44.000 Look, I'm fully in support of that.
01:59:46.000 I have daughters, man.
01:59:47.000 I don't want them to ever have to experience that kind of shit again.
01:59:49.000 I'm glad that people...
01:59:50.000 They have to be accountable for things like that.
01:59:53.000 That we do make...
01:59:54.000 I think workplaces in general, right...
01:59:58.000 First of all, it sucks.
02:00:00.000 No one wants to be stuck in some place all day.
02:00:02.000 But also you have this weird culture in these workplaces where you're around all these other people and these people you see sometimes more than you see your own family.
02:00:10.000 You're around them eight hours a day and you don't even get to pick them, right?
02:00:14.000 They're just the people that you automatically work with.
02:00:16.000 And if you're a woman and you're in a situation where you have to work with some man who has power over you and is abusive, It would be hell.
02:00:26.000 You know, the workplace is kind of interesting because I don't know what to do with it.
02:00:30.000 Because a lot of people find love in the workplace.
02:00:32.000 Yeah, that's true too.
02:00:34.000 I, as a rule, like, never...
02:00:37.000 Like, I turn that part of my brain off at the workplace.
02:00:40.000 Because I feel it's such a difficult game to play.
02:00:44.000 But I've been hit on by co-workers.
02:00:47.000 Like, in a positive.
02:00:48.000 Not a power thing.
02:00:50.000 But, like, you're close.
02:00:52.000 Yeah.
02:00:53.000 And then I was always running away from that.
02:00:55.000 Because what I imagine in my head is what happens when we break up?
02:01:01.000 What happens if we have a fight?
02:01:05.000 Which is human relations.
02:01:07.000 The drama of that, it's hard to get right.
02:01:13.000 From an individual perspective, I think...
02:01:17.000 You shouldn't play victim.
02:01:19.000 You should take the situation as it is and sort of rise above it, whatever it is.
02:01:27.000 Whatever the challenge, whatever the difficulties, whatever of the situation you're in, you rise above it.
02:01:34.000 From the individual perspective, because life is hard.
02:01:40.000 Succeeding in a career is hard.
02:01:41.000 And to be stuck in the local optima of playing victim and victimhood...
02:01:51.000 I think for the individual, it's not productive.
02:01:53.000 But as a society, that's a conversation we need to have.
02:01:56.000 Like, who are the victims in our world?
02:01:58.000 And how can we create a world that has fewer victims?
02:02:03.000 One of the things that Jordan Peterson points out that I think is really important to mention is that we haven't been doing this office thing that long.
02:02:13.000 Meanwhile, I should like...
02:02:16.000 Clarify.
02:02:16.000 I don't know jack shit about working in an office.
02:02:18.000 I never worked in an office in my life.
02:02:20.000 But I couldn't imagine what it would be like.
02:02:23.000 I understand people.
02:02:24.000 But that's a weird thing, man.
02:02:25.000 When men and women are sexually attracted to each other and they see each other every day like that.
02:02:29.000 Very weird.
02:02:30.000 It's very weird.
02:02:31.000 And to say that you have to turn that off and it's admirable that you do.
02:02:35.000 But some people don't.
02:02:37.000 You know?
02:02:37.000 Some people don't.
02:02:38.000 Some people have like weird fucking fetishes towards people they work with.
02:02:42.000 Well...
02:02:42.000 Okay, so I'm a romantic in general, but I'm also a guy, like people who hear me, especially your fans, who think I'm beta, fuck you.
02:03:00.000 You gotta stop reading the comments.
02:03:01.000 I keep telling you.
02:03:02.000 I welcome you.
02:03:04.000 Message me.
02:03:05.000 Let's take it out on the mat.
02:03:07.000 Okay.
02:03:07.000 So, I won't read the comments, but I'm just saying.
02:03:10.000 I'm not baited.
02:03:11.000 But you're actually challenging them to do jiu-jitsu with you.
02:03:13.000 I'm joking.
02:03:14.000 It's a joke.
02:03:15.000 Unless you want to.
02:03:17.000 Okay.
02:03:17.000 But if you're going to read those comments, someone's going to go, all right, motherfucker, where do you go?
02:03:21.000 Let's go.
02:03:23.000 Broadway Jiu-Jitsu in Boston.
02:03:25.000 Don't say that.
02:03:26.000 You made a mistake right there.
02:03:28.000 But also, if you're interested in learning Jiu-Jitsu, go to Broadway Jiu-Jitsu in Boston, which every gym is struggling.
02:03:37.000 Are they open now?
02:03:39.000 They're doing the dance that everybody is doing which is like they're doing like socially distant training like how's that possible so in Massachusetts is different but you could do private training which means they have these slots of one hour where people show up and train it's like I think three people are like two people they train and they keep what do you call it every hour they do different different sets of people mom do they test everybody A temperature
02:04:09.000 check.
02:04:10.000 So they're doing everything the laws requires.
02:04:12.000 So every state is doing different things.
02:04:15.000 How about how effective is a temperature check?
02:04:17.000 I mean, there's people that are asymptomatic.
02:04:18.000 Do they have a high temperature?
02:04:19.000 It's not about what works and doesn't.
02:04:22.000 It's about complying.
02:04:23.000 It's about what...
02:04:24.000 I mean, from my perspective, healthy people should do whatever the hell they want.
02:04:30.000 Like, to me...
02:04:32.000 Let me rephrase that.
02:04:34.000 Whoever's comfortable, like, the level...
02:04:36.000 I believe in freedom.
02:04:38.000 We're in Texas.
02:04:39.000 Yes.
02:04:39.000 These water bottles are made in Texas.
02:04:41.000 Are they?
02:04:42.000 Good.
02:04:42.000 That's crazy.
02:04:43.000 Awesome.
02:04:45.000 You should be able to choose your actions and then people who either have symptoms or people who have...
02:04:55.000 In a high-risk category, they should stay home.
02:04:58.000 They should be isolating themselves.
02:04:59.000 But there should be a little bit more freedom to define how you interact with this world, especially at this time, especially where the curve is.
02:05:07.000 But, you know, there's rules in Massachusetts that you're supposed to follow.
02:05:11.000 And jiu-jitsu...
02:05:13.000 They don't understand, obviously, combat sports.
02:05:20.000 Jiu-jitsu is essential for a lot of people, for their psychology.
02:05:27.000 There's people going nuts right now.
02:05:29.000 Yeah, it's part of who they are as a human.
02:05:31.000 It's part of their religion.
02:05:33.000 And it was also part of the way of exercising out their demons.
02:05:38.000 Yes.
02:05:39.000 And now you have a lot of people sitting alone at home with their demons.
02:05:43.000 Yeah.
02:05:44.000 And it's also a big part of their social life.
02:05:47.000 Huge part of their social life.
02:05:49.000 And also physical touch.
02:05:51.000 There's something about jujitsu, like the physical touch of jujitsu, it's very good for people.
02:05:56.000 Even though you would think of it as like a violent interaction, there's actually so much camaraderie that's involved in jujitsu.
02:06:03.000 There's so much community, there's so much friendship and love in jujitsu.
02:06:09.000 Yeah, you're practicing killing each other, but you're doing so with good friends who are equally skilled.
02:06:15.000 Iron sharpens iron, and it's very important that you want to roll with people that are challenging to you.
02:06:22.000 You want them to be good.
02:06:23.000 You want them to try really hard.
02:06:24.000 It's a part of the whole thing, and you feel very blessed.
02:06:27.000 You know what happens after you're done rolling.
02:06:29.000 You always thank each other and hug each other.
02:06:31.000 That's part of the culture, and jiu-jitsu is a very friendly culture.
02:06:36.000 It's one of the things that I love about Brazil and the Brazilians is that they're so friendly.
02:06:41.000 It's like a big part of their culture.
02:06:44.000 It's like a big part of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
02:06:46.000 It's like the way the instructor interacts with the students is very friendly, very friendly.
02:06:53.000 Yeah, and now that that's gone, what do you do?
02:06:55.000 I know, for a lot of people, they're going nuts.
02:06:57.000 You should go run, I recommend.
02:07:00.000 That's why I went to the whole Goggins thing.
02:07:02.000 I'm going nuts by myself.
02:07:04.000 Well, explain what you did, because it's pretty funny.
02:07:06.000 Yeah, it's ridiculous.
02:07:07.000 So first, I follow two people on Instagram, you and David Goggins, which is you for the lulls for the laughs, and Goggins for just to feel like a weak bitch every once in a while.
02:07:20.000 LAUGHTER At one point in the spring, I forget when it was, he posted something about a 48 hour challenge.
02:07:28.000 So where you run 4 miles every 4 hours.
02:07:33.000 So I did that.
02:07:34.000 I never ran more than 22 miles before then.
02:07:37.000 I just did it.
02:07:39.000 Now my whole methodology for doing these things is I announce it on Twitter.
02:07:44.000 So that, like, in the moment.
02:07:46.000 You can't get out of it.
02:07:47.000 I can't get out of it.
02:07:48.000 So, like, I saw the post on Instagram.
02:07:53.000 I went to Twitter.
02:07:54.000 I said it.
02:07:55.000 I'm excited.
02:07:55.000 You know, in my head, I'm not thinking.
02:07:57.000 I'm not allowing myself to think.
02:07:58.000 I said, I'm just going to do it.
02:07:59.000 And I'll figure out how to do it.
02:08:01.000 So I figured out how to do it.
02:08:02.000 That was the worst idea ever.
02:08:03.000 I don't recommend that.
02:08:04.000 Four miles every four hours.
02:08:06.000 So how long does it take you to run four miles?
02:08:09.000 40 minutes, let's say.
02:08:11.000 So you have a three hour plus 20 minute rest in between each four mile run and you're sleeping for three hours at a time so you could get up and run?
02:08:20.000 Yeah, so it's a mental test of your ability to do something really stupid for prolonged periods of time.
02:08:28.000 Because it's not like running 48 miles in one take.
02:08:31.000 That's actually probably easier.
02:08:34.000 The hard thing is run a little bit.
02:08:38.000 You know, four miles is pretty easy, especially at a slow pace.
02:08:41.000 And then like shower.
02:08:44.000 It depends.
02:08:45.000 I mean, I showered almost every time, which is another thing that's hard to do because you're like constantly showering and you're like, oh, here we go.
02:08:53.000 I almost didn't sleep at all.
02:08:54.000 You slept like one hour at a time, really.
02:08:56.000 And then I overate.
02:08:58.000 So I was eating carnivore, still the most eating carnivore at that time.
02:09:01.000 So I was eating like...
02:09:03.000 I eat a giant rotisserie chicken.
02:09:07.000 Your brain starts convincing you that you need the energy for the fuel.
02:09:12.000 So I felt really bloated.
02:09:14.000 You're running with a chicken in your stomach?
02:09:16.000 In my stomach.
02:09:18.000 And then all these demons come out.
02:09:21.000 At least for me.
02:09:25.000 I start thinking, I need to delete the comment I did on Twitter.
02:09:29.000 This is stupid.
02:09:32.000 I'm a scientist.
02:09:33.000 Your mind starts making up stuff like, why are you doing this?
02:09:37.000 All of those demons.
02:09:38.000 And then it starts saying things like, all the papers you wrote are shit.
02:09:45.000 Everything you've ever done is shit.
02:09:47.000 Oof.
02:09:48.000 Like, you need to work hard.
02:09:49.000 Like, if you...
02:09:50.000 Why are you working so hard at this stupid running thing?
02:09:53.000 You should be focused and doing the thing that you...
02:09:56.000 Like, your career.
02:09:57.000 You should be...
02:09:57.000 Like, all of those things.
02:09:58.000 And then my parents come into place.
02:10:00.000 Like, you should find a wife, right?
02:10:01.000 You should have kids.
02:10:02.000 Like, all the...
02:10:03.000 All you talk about love all the time.
02:10:04.000 Why are you fucking single?
02:10:06.000 You fucking...
02:10:07.000 You know, like, that's the...
02:10:08.000 That's what...
02:10:08.000 Yeah.
02:10:09.000 It doesn't actually speak in those words, but that's...
02:10:11.000 But you feel it.
02:10:11.000 You feel it.
02:10:12.000 Yeah.
02:10:13.000 And then...
02:10:13.000 And then you just...
02:10:14.000 And then you feel the age thing.
02:10:16.000 I mean, I... But, like...
02:10:17.000 You know, you used to be able to wrestle.
02:10:19.000 Like, you've never beat anyone good at wrestling.
02:10:22.000 You've never, like, your jiu-jitsu blackball, you don't deserve that blackball.
02:10:26.000 Like, all those thoughts are coming.
02:10:28.000 And so, but anyway, that was the 48-hour challenge.
02:10:32.000 And then on one day, I think in June, yeah, June, maybe at the end of May, I woke up and I had this idea.
02:10:40.000 The brain is stupid.
02:10:42.000 To say that, to tweet and say that I'll do as many push-ups and pull-ups as this tweet gets likes.
02:10:50.000 I don't know why I thought that.
02:10:52.000 I thought in my head, because I usually, you know, I talk about love all the time and, you know, I get like, I don't know, 100 likes, 500 likes, I don't know, whatever I get.
02:11:02.000 But it's not...
02:11:03.000 I thought like, hmm, I need to get harder and need to start exercising every day again.
02:11:08.000 And I thought I would get about maybe a thousand.
02:11:11.000 So I ended up getting 20,000.
02:11:14.000 Oof.
02:11:15.000 Yeah, so I said in 30 days, right?
02:11:18.000 And that's too much for me.
02:11:22.000 That's too hard.
02:11:23.000 So in my mind, I thought that.
02:11:25.000 So I said, okay, let me distribute that across other exercise.
02:11:28.000 I'll do it every day, but I'll distribute it across bodyweight squats too.
02:11:32.000 So the idea is, you know, coronavirus, I want to do stuff, like I have a kettlebell too, maybe exercise I can do at home every single day.
02:11:40.000 But the tweet said, push-ups and pull-ups only.
02:11:47.000 Before then, I've interacted with David quite a bit.
02:11:51.000 So I sent him this thing, just saying, I forget what I said.
02:12:00.000 It was a basic message.
02:12:01.000 Do you have any advice?
02:12:02.000 And he sent me back a video of him.
02:12:05.000 Oh, I asked him a few questions.
02:12:06.000 And he sent back a video of him answering the questions.
02:12:09.000 Calling me out on my bullshit.
02:12:11.000 Because he said, you said in your tweet, push-ups and pull-ups, motherfucker, or however he talks.
02:12:18.000 He's like, if I were you...
02:12:20.000 So he did the worst thing, which is like, if I were you, I would do what I promised.
02:12:27.000 But I understand how things are.
02:12:29.000 So he went on to give me advice if I bitch out.
02:12:33.000 So I end up...
02:12:34.000 What else can you do?
02:12:37.000 So I started doing push-ups and pull-ups.
02:12:39.000 So it's about 500 push-ups a day and 170 pull-ups a day.
02:12:49.000 Plus six miles running.
02:12:51.000 Jesus.
02:12:52.000 I just started...
02:12:53.000 Every day?
02:12:54.000 Every single day.
02:12:55.000 For a month?
02:12:55.000 For a month, yeah.
02:12:57.000 There you go.
02:12:59.000 This is the Instagram days, man.
02:13:02.000 This is when I was so proud of myself.
02:13:04.000 I was proud of myself that I'm actually doing this.
02:13:07.000 And I think day three is when it all just went to shit.
02:13:12.000 That's when it went to shit.
02:13:13.000 So I started getting a shoulder.
02:13:14.000 So I stopped on day seven, I believe, and took 10 days off.
02:13:20.000 So my shoulders started just overwhelmed with pain.
02:13:23.000 Did you get an MRI? No, no, no.
02:13:25.000 I know the shoulder.
02:13:27.000 I've gotten this.
02:13:28.000 It's overuse.
02:13:29.000 Sorry, it wasn't hurt.
02:13:30.000 It was like, I know this pain well.
02:13:32.000 Where is it?
02:13:33.000 Part of your shoulder?
02:13:34.000 It's complicated.
02:13:35.000 It's slightly in the back.
02:13:37.000 I know the pain well.
02:13:39.000 I know it's an overuse thing.
02:13:41.000 I did it when I trained Judo twice a day.
02:13:46.000 I know the pain.
02:13:47.000 I know how to treat it, which is like ice.
02:13:50.000 But the reps are insane.
02:13:52.000 People have done this kind of thing.
02:13:56.000 So I gave myself two weeks to actually ramp up to it too.
02:14:00.000 I have a good base.
02:14:01.000 I know how to do push-ups and pull-ups, but that was way too much for me.
02:14:05.000 The whole time, David motherfucking Goggins is with me either on the phone or email every single day, and he's doubling everything I'm doing.
02:14:20.000 Well, he's not doing the squats because he's just had knee surgery.
02:14:26.000 So he's with surgery doing the push-ups.
02:14:29.000 What did he have done to his knee?
02:14:31.000 He doesn't like to talk about stuff like...
02:14:34.000 I couldn't get it.
02:14:36.000 Because...
02:14:39.000 I think he probably just hurt his knee just for the haters to think he'll quit.
02:14:43.000 I know he had his knee drained.
02:14:45.000 Yeah, there was some problem.
02:14:47.000 He's one of those ignorer guys.
02:14:49.000 He's got pains, he just ignores it.
02:14:52.000 Yeah, what do you got?
02:14:53.000 Okay, let me see.
02:14:56.000 Oh, this is them pulling...
02:14:57.000 Okay, what does it say here?
02:14:58.000 A lot of us think that just because there's an obstacle in the middle of the road...
02:15:02.000 Oh, look at this.
02:15:04.000 They're pulling all that fluid out of his knee.
02:15:07.000 Ooh, what does it say?
02:15:09.000 This is just talking about setbacks.
02:15:11.000 Okay, here's more often than not.
02:15:14.000 I've had bad knees, bad hips, etc.
02:15:16.000 for 20-plus years.
02:15:17.000 Not letting that stop me, and I won't now.
02:15:20.000 I might find we must exhaust all options.
02:15:23.000 Find a way.
02:15:24.000 Yeah.
02:15:25.000 Jesus Christ.
02:15:26.000 So he's draining multiple syringes of fluid out of his...
02:15:33.000 Look at that nasty shit that's coming out of his fucking knee, man.
02:15:37.000 How much fluid is in his knee?
02:15:40.000 So the thing is, like, your knee is a physical structure.
02:15:44.000 And I appreciate his mindset.
02:15:47.000 But ultimately, if you're draining that much fluid out of your knee, you've got real internal problems.
02:15:54.000 And you could fucking man through that shit, but you're still diminishing the physical structure of your knee.
02:16:00.000 Well, that's his whole philosophy, which is the point.
02:16:04.000 Yeah, there's a video, I think, one or two.
02:16:06.000 He's running like a week later.
02:16:08.000 He's like, I'm back, motherfuckers, or something, whatever.
02:16:10.000 Yeah.
02:16:11.000 Whatever he's doing.
02:16:12.000 He's running.
02:16:13.000 You scroll up a little bit.
02:16:14.000 Scroll up.
02:16:14.000 I'll show you what it is.
02:16:15.000 Right there.
02:16:16.000 That one.
02:16:17.000 Play that.
02:16:21.000 Computer warriors, trolls, haters.
02:16:26.000 I read your fucking messages on those videos I put up with me and my crutches.
02:16:32.000 Me getting my knees straight.
02:16:34.000 You were happy I was fucking injured.
02:16:38.000 You're also happy because you thought I'd never run again.
02:16:41.000 All that C I told you.
02:16:42.000 Tagging your friends shit.
02:16:45.000 Bitch, you don't fucking know me.
02:16:46.000 You see a one minute fucking video about me.
02:16:49.000 You know how hard I train, how I live, the fucking dedication I put into my fucking life.
02:16:54.000 So why do you troll?
02:16:57.000 Maybe it's a fat motherfucker at home.
02:17:00.000 Lazy.
02:17:00.000 With no distance or dedication.
02:17:03.000 Maybe you're jealous.
02:17:05.000 Who knows?
02:17:06.000 I guarantee this.
02:17:08.000 I'll be back better than ever.
02:17:10.000 Ha ha!
02:17:11.000 Fuck you.
02:17:15.000 Stay hard.
02:17:16.000 Fuck you.
02:17:16.000 Stay hard.
02:17:18.000 He's the best.
02:17:19.000 God damn, I love that dude.
02:17:21.000 He's a treasure.
02:17:22.000 Yeah.
02:17:23.000 He's a treasure.
02:17:24.000 But in this world where...
02:17:26.000 The reason I stopped actually posting about the thing I'm doing...
02:17:31.000 What I realized, especially probably the community I'm in, so many people were telling me that's too much.
02:17:39.000 They were encouraging me to be healthy.
02:17:41.000 They weren't understanding the whole point, the philosophy of David Goggins, which is the point is to push the limits of what is healthy.
02:17:51.000 Doing those kinds of reps is not for some kind of to get back in shape.
02:17:57.000 The moment I agreed to answer David Goggins' email and then phone call and then you're accepting not a nice way for like...
02:18:07.000 Trying to up my cardiovascular routine.
02:18:10.000 It was to go through hell.
02:18:13.000 So this is the first time...
02:18:14.000 Dan Gable, famous wrestler, famous wrestling coach...
02:18:20.000 Talked about that he always tried to train so hard that he wouldn't be able to get off the mat, that he would have to be carried off the mat.
02:18:28.000 And he said he never succeeded at that, but he always really tried to push so hard that he literally couldn't get off the mat.
02:18:34.000 And then the results of that, we're talking about the physical structure.
02:18:37.000 He has replaced hips, replaced knees.
02:18:40.000 His body fell apart.
02:18:41.000 The internet is very nice and helpful to tell you exactly that, which is your body will fall apart.
02:18:47.000 That's not the right way to do it.
02:18:49.000 When I got injured, people were like, just like you said, ah-ha.
02:18:54.000 Obviously, you shouldn't be doing this, right?
02:18:56.000 But that's not the point.
02:18:58.000 That's not the point of this.
02:19:00.000 This is the first time...
02:19:02.000 I'm not a crier.
02:19:05.000 I cried three times face down on my carpet in this whole challenge.
02:19:09.000 So I was doing all this at home.
02:19:13.000 There's all different kinds of demons that came out.
02:19:17.000 So for people who know push-ups and pull-ups...
02:19:21.000 And done this kind of exercise, what happens is it's kind of, your muscle get used to it.
02:19:27.000 It's not physically that challenging.
02:19:30.000 They're in the state of just complete exhaustion.
02:19:34.000 And what it is, it's almost boring.
02:19:36.000 So it's a task of your mind pushing through a thing that's really boring.
02:19:41.000 Your muscles are exceptionally sore.
02:19:43.000 They're exhausted.
02:19:44.000 And again, all those demons of like, why are you doing this?
02:19:48.000 It's like, nobody will care if you just quit, all that kind of stuff.
02:19:51.000 And dealing with all of that, that's why.
02:19:53.000 Because it's about, depending on the day, but it's at least two hours of push-ups and pull-ups.
02:20:00.000 Spread throughout the day and it's just it's a grind and then I have Goggins on me about it always doubling stuff so I after 10 days I returned and I at that point I did it without announcing it I did it for four or five days to make sure I could do it and that point I knew I'm gonna have to finish even with injury and So I knew after 10 days,
02:20:24.000 the shoulder was back to normal.
02:20:26.000 I figured out the eating that I'm doing.
02:20:31.000 I figured out the whole recovery.
02:20:33.000 What did you change in eating?
02:20:36.000 It sounds weird, but I switched to one meal a day, which is before I sleep, which felt good.
02:20:45.000 It's mostly keto.
02:20:53.000 Yeah.
02:20:54.000 Yeah.
02:21:08.000 You don't get the...
02:21:10.000 Phytonutrients, plant-based nutrients.
02:21:12.000 And also, importantly, electrolytes.
02:21:15.000 Because I'm running, there's a...
02:21:16.000 Because you get the headaches thing.
02:21:22.000 You ever take liquid IV? You ever try that stuff?
02:21:24.000 No.
02:21:24.000 I swear by that shit.
02:21:26.000 I drink that every day.
02:21:27.000 Is that the actual name?
02:21:29.000 It's just an electrolyte supplement.
02:21:31.000 It's a sponsor, too.
02:21:32.000 But even if it wasn't, if they stop being a sponsor, I'll still tell people to take it.
02:21:35.000 What is it supposed to...
02:21:37.000 So it has sodium, magnesium on it?
02:21:40.000 Vitamins, sodium, glucose, optimum ratio of sodium to glucose.
02:21:44.000 Very scientifically researched.
02:21:46.000 It's fantastic shit, man.
02:21:48.000 Changed the way...
02:21:49.000 I would always get cramps.
02:21:51.000 And once I started using it, I stopped getting cramps.
02:21:53.000 You think, like, hard kickboxing workouts, hard martial arts workouts, you know, hill running, that kind of shit.
02:21:58.000 Like, you beat your body up, man.
02:22:00.000 And if you're not getting enough electrolytes, you're certainly draining them out of your system.
02:22:04.000 And taking them in the form of liquid IV just made a big difference.
02:22:11.000 Sorry, are you still sticking to keto?
02:22:13.000 Sorry to interrupt you.
02:22:13.000 No, I don't eat keto, but I'm mostly carnivore.
02:22:18.000 I mean, I eat some salads and I eat some fruit, but the vast majority of what I eat is meat.
02:22:26.000 The vast majority.
02:22:29.000 Maybe 80 plus percent of everything I eat is meat.
02:22:31.000 I don't know about you, but that's one of the things.
02:22:34.000 I just stopped wanting to post about it because, one, the exercise is insane, and two, my eating.
02:22:40.000 I just don't...
02:22:41.000 I like positive vibes.
02:22:43.000 People get angry.
02:22:44.000 People get angry.
02:22:45.000 And not only just angry, they keep telling me it's unhealthy.
02:22:51.000 I've experimented.
02:22:52.000 I've wrestled my whole life.
02:22:54.000 I understand what peak performance is on different diets.
02:22:58.000 I know my body.
02:23:00.000 I've explored and learned about what feels good for me.
02:23:03.000 I'm not saying it's good for others.
02:23:05.000 I've experimented with eating seven times a day when I was more doing powerlifting stuff.
02:23:12.000 For me, eating once a day or eating twice a day in a small window like intermittent fasting, very low carb.
02:23:21.000 I do two things in my life, which is Goggins-type challenges, which is doing physical challenges, and then long periods of deep thinking, deep work, so intellectual work.
02:23:34.000 For me, Keto, and once a day, focuses the mind like nothing else.
02:23:40.000 It allows me to sit for eight hours at a time, so I usually do two four-hour periods of deep work.
02:23:46.000 You shut off every distraction and completely focus yourself on a single task.
02:23:52.000 Nothing like keto for me.
02:23:54.000 The interesting thing, I know that about myself.
02:23:57.000 What I wasn't really sure is with the push-up and pull-up thing, what is the right supplementation for that.
02:24:07.000 And I wasn't sure, but I stuck to it.
02:24:09.000 I stuck to basically entirely carnivore.
02:24:12.000 I would say under 20 grams of carbs, maybe even under 10 grams of carbs on Some days.
02:24:19.000 And mostly just a lot of meat.
02:24:21.000 I wasn't a calorie deficit.
02:24:23.000 I actually got a little fatter.
02:24:25.000 Really?
02:24:26.000 Yeah, so I was...
02:24:27.000 That's crazy.
02:24:28.000 I was starving...
02:24:29.000 Okay, this sounds...
02:24:31.000 Please don't clip this out.
02:24:33.000 But I was starving for meat.
02:24:36.000 I would remember waking up wanting a bloody steak in the middle of the night.
02:24:41.000 But your tissue must be so...
02:24:43.000 Everything must need nutrients so badly, so much protein, you're breaking everything down.
02:24:49.000 That's such an extreme requirement of your body to do something like that.
02:24:52.000 It's not like crazy.
02:24:54.000 We're not talking about...
02:24:55.000 David Goggins took it to the extreme, of course.
02:24:57.000 Of course.
02:24:58.000 Doubling everything you do.
02:24:59.000 It's just insane.
02:25:00.000 So a thousand push-ups is different than 500 push-ups.
02:25:04.000 So 500 is doable.
02:25:07.000 A thousand is insane.
02:25:10.000 And also, there's certain things on form.
02:25:14.000 I didn't go all the way down on the pull-ups.
02:25:16.000 I did a form of pull-up with my hands closer together.
02:25:22.000 To save your shoulder?
02:25:24.000 To save the shoulder.
02:25:25.000 So I made sure.
02:25:25.000 This isn't to prove anybody to...
02:25:27.000 That's the other thing.
02:25:28.000 When I posted videos of myself doing push-ups and pull-ups, that's why I stopped.
02:25:33.000 People would tell me that the form...
02:25:36.000 Stop reading the comments.
02:25:39.000 How many times during this podcast have you talked about people saying things to you in the comments and it upsetting you?
02:25:47.000 It's been like 10. Well, help me out with something then.
02:25:51.000 The reality is that a lot of other really intelligent people read the comments.
02:25:58.000 You mean like Eric?
02:25:59.000 Eric Weinstein?
02:26:00.000 Eric Weinstein?
02:26:00.000 I told him stop reading them too.
02:26:01.000 That motherfucker complains constantly about comments.
02:26:04.000 But the thing is, yes, that's a good...
02:26:06.000 But I'm a...
02:26:09.000 So the difference between you and I is one important thing is I do hope to be one of the technologists that either creates a competitor to Twitter or helps Twitter become a better version of itself.
02:26:20.000 So I want to create the systems that create a community in the comments that's positive.
02:26:27.000 So for me, it's important to understand that the demon's in there.
02:26:31.000 But you're gonna have to fundamentally change the way human beings interact with each other with no repercussions.
02:26:35.000 When people have no repercussions, they interact anonymously.
02:26:39.000 There's just a fundamental aspect of cruelty that emerges.
02:26:43.000 There's no getting around it.
02:26:45.000 I disagree, I think.
02:26:47.000 I don't disagree.
02:26:49.000 I think the fundamental thing that happens Is some small percentage of humans start becoming toxic.
02:26:57.000 Yes.
02:26:57.000 And that drives away what I believe is the majority of the population who are therefore friendly, like the kind of conversations you have at parties in person.
02:27:06.000 No, listen, I agree with you 100%.
02:27:08.000 Most of the interactions that I have online, even when I stop reading comments, were positive.
02:27:14.000 The vast majority.
02:27:16.000 When you cultivate, like, one of the things that I've tried to do with this podcast is talk to people the way I talk to people in real life.
02:27:24.000 You know, warts and all.
02:27:25.000 The vast majority of my interactions in real life are positive.
02:27:30.000 The vast majority.
02:27:31.000 The vast majority are happy.
02:27:32.000 Occasionally they're not.
02:27:33.000 Occasionally someone's a fucking dick, you know, and that's just what you run into dickheads sometimes.
02:27:38.000 It sucks and it's annoying, but it's a part of life.
02:27:42.000 My internet feed based on this podcast, based on how people get to know me, reflected that.
02:27:49.000 It's mostly positive.
02:27:50.000 It's mostly people recognizing what my intentions are.
02:27:55.000 My intentions are to try to get out of the way as much as possible, put together the best podcast I can, do my best, try to be curious, try to feed my curiosity.
02:28:04.000 Just do my best.
02:28:05.000 Open-minded, kind, loving.
02:28:08.000 And help people and promote people.
02:28:10.000 That's another really big part for me, is promote people.
02:28:15.000 Help them succeed, because I feel good about it.
02:28:19.000 That makes me feel good.
02:28:19.000 Yeah, like, who the hell am I? Like, for some reason, you see stuff in people, and then you share, like, selflessly.
02:28:26.000 You promote them.
02:28:27.000 Like, you do that with comedians, you do that with a lot of, even Eric Weinstein.
02:28:31.000 One of the, you know, incredibly brilliant, Jordan Peterson, could be argued that he was really propelled forward by a conversation on your podcast.
02:28:38.000 I'm happy to do that.
02:28:40.000 It makes me feel good.
02:28:41.000 It's one of the most important parts of this podcast, I think, that I can introduce.
02:28:45.000 And in doing so, it also enriches other people because you get to hear these interesting conversations and it stimulates their mind and it changes the way they think about certain things.
02:28:55.000 So the vast majority of interactions that I had online even before I stopped reading comments were positive.
02:29:00.000 The problem is you'd start dwelling on the ones that aren't, like you're doing in this podcast.
02:29:04.000 You're literally telling me everything that's wrong with reading comments by telling me you're reading comments and then complaining about the things that people say about your form, or the things they say about you not having enough women on your podcast, or that people say you're a beta.
02:29:18.000 You're going over and over and over again.
02:29:21.000 For no reason.
02:29:21.000 That's interesting.
02:29:22.000 But all of those things are completely unnecessary, and you're going to fight me on it right now, because I see you're gearing up.
02:29:26.000 Yeah, I'm gearing up.
02:29:27.000 You're gearing up for some sort of a response.
02:29:29.000 Yeah, I've been gearing up.
02:29:32.000 Okay.
02:29:34.000 First of all, let me put it, because it's more fun to talk about the negative stuff.
02:29:38.000 Most of my life, the reason I read comments is I've met incredible people.
02:29:43.000 I'm currently with a very small level of celebrity.
02:29:47.000 I'm fortunate enough to have people that are just full of love.
02:29:50.000 Two things.
02:29:51.000 Love and intelligence.
02:29:53.000 They make me think.
02:29:55.000 They inspire me.
02:29:56.000 There's incredible people.
02:29:57.000 And that's why I read the comments still, for now at least.
02:30:00.000 I did hire somebody to help me fight the trolls.
02:30:05.000 Because you can remove comments and so on.
02:30:09.000 I don't think that's a long-term solution.
02:30:13.000 I think the long-term solution is technology.
02:30:15.000 Here's the fundamental problem.
02:30:18.000 I think that 99% of Joe Rogan fans, you can say any kind of percentage, are people I would want to hang out with at a party and talk with.
02:30:28.000 I think so too.
02:30:29.000 And I think the comment section should reflect that.
02:30:31.000 I think it's a technology problem.
02:30:33.000 I think what happens is the 1% that I don't really want to hang out with dominate the conversation in the comment section.
02:30:41.000 Well, they're more inclined to comment.
02:30:45.000 It's a bunch of things.
02:30:47.000 They're better at commenting the kind of derisive, funny thing.
02:30:52.000 There's a mix of humor and derision which somehow attracts a certain part in us as people who click like.
02:31:03.000 This is a new studio.
02:31:05.000 I was saying how this studio is kind of like the Cybertruck release.
02:31:09.000 There's something in people where they want to like the funny, derisive comment about the way the new studio looks, for example.
02:31:18.000 When you look at comments about your new studio, there's a humongous amount of really positive comments.
02:31:25.000 But the negative ones, and they're not even negative, they're more like shitty in a funny way.
02:31:31.000 They rise to the top.
02:31:33.000 That's a technology problem because that shitty comment drives away people like me from commenting.
02:31:39.000 I want to comment.
02:31:40.000 I still comment.
02:31:43.000 I'm telling you, you're wasting so much time thinking about this.
02:31:46.000 No, I disagree.
02:31:48.000 I think there's a place for community on the internet.
02:31:52.000 Yeah, there is.
02:31:53.000 And if commenting is, I mean, call it something else.
02:31:56.000 Call it social media interactions.
02:31:58.000 Like most people at some level of celebrity stop checking their Twitter, like mentions Twitter comments and so on because of the toxicity.
02:32:07.000 The top comments on Donald Trump or the top comments on Bill Gates or the top comments on Obama accounts, if you look at them, pedophilia is usually involved.
02:32:19.000 And it's like, if I'm Barack Obama, why would I want to interact in the comments with a community that were like...
02:32:27.000 Well, you can turn your comments off.
02:32:29.000 Yeah, but what I'm telling you is, okay, you're telling me...
02:32:32.000 That's death, though, right?
02:32:33.000 You're accepting, yeah, you're censoring people now.
02:32:36.000 They get insane.
02:32:37.000 Well, they just become accustomed to being able to speak as well.
02:32:41.000 So that's part of the thing, like, on Instagram.
02:32:43.000 It's not just that you post something.
02:32:46.000 It's that other people get to post things as well.
02:32:48.000 Yeah, and it's a, like, I try to fight, like, I comment, you're the only person on Instagram who I comment on.
02:32:56.000 Oh boy.
02:32:57.000 Because they're, okay, they're fun.
02:33:00.000 There's a fun community there.
02:33:02.000 Okay.
02:33:03.000 And I ignore, like, I actually train my brain to ignore any of the haters.
02:33:06.000 Like, I'm just, there's fun, really loving, intelligent people.
02:33:11.000 That should be the community.
02:33:12.000 Yes, I agree.
02:33:14.000 No, but you don't agree because you...
02:33:16.000 No, that should be the community.
02:33:17.000 I agree with that sentiment.
02:33:18.000 But it isn't currently, and I think that could be...
02:33:20.000 But it is, the vast majority.
02:33:22.000 It's just the kind of people that comment in the first place.
02:33:26.000 Okay, let's just do a thought experiment.
02:33:29.000 If you have a million people on your Twitter, and they're all fans of your podcast, you have a million podcast fans, how many of them are going to comment?
02:33:42.000 You said you only comment on my page.
02:33:44.000 How many people comment on people's pages?
02:33:48.000 How many people that have enriched, important, enriching important, difficult lives where they're filled with challenges take the time to comment shitty things on internet?
02:33:58.000 Not a large number.
02:33:59.000 Very few.
02:34:01.000 Most of the people.
02:34:02.000 They have unrealized potential and they're not doing well.
02:34:06.000 Okay, can I propose a different thought experiment?
02:34:09.000 Sure.
02:34:09.000 How many people out of those million that listen to the podcast, mine or yours, that have an intelligent, interesting thought that occurs when they listen?
02:34:18.000 And they would share it with me if it was one-on-one.
02:34:22.000 Quite a few, yeah.
02:34:23.000 That's my problem.
02:34:24.000 I would like them to feel safe to say something.
02:34:29.000 Yeah, then they should be.
02:34:31.000 It's just they're going to have to deal with trolls.
02:34:33.000 No, but you're accepting the way things are now, and I'm saying I think there's a technological solution that I'm constantly...
02:34:40.000 Well, that's what Neuralink is.
02:34:42.000 Neuralink is the future versions of it that actually allow you to read minds.
02:34:46.000 I mean that's the technological solution.
02:34:48.000 To realize that this person's flawed because they were abused by their uncle or they got bullied throughout childhood or they have a disease or they're impaired mentally.
02:34:59.000 There's something wrong with them.
02:35:00.000 I mean that's what you're dealing with when you're dealing with a lot of these people that are online that are angry.
02:35:05.000 Their lives are not good.
02:35:08.000 You're not getting people...
02:35:10.000 That live amazing lives and spend the vast majority of the day shitting on people on the internet.
02:35:14.000 But I go to some people's Twitter pages and I see them all day long saying mean shit.
02:35:21.000 All day long arguing about things.
02:35:23.000 All day long complaining about things.
02:35:25.000 And it's the vast majority of their social interaction.
02:35:28.000 It has to be.
02:35:29.000 Just based on volume.
02:35:31.000 It's super unhealthy.
02:35:33.000 But I feel, it might be optimistic, but I think those people, if you put a mirror to them, meaning you make them realize that they're being toxic, that they could be incentivized, they could be encouraged to find the better angels of their nature.
02:35:51.000 They could be, but a lot of times that toxicity is coming out of a lot of other flaws in their life and their personality.
02:35:58.000 You're thinking in terms of your own self.
02:36:02.000 You're a guy who did this fucking ridiculous 30-day challenge.
02:36:05.000 You're a guy who's running four miles every four hours.
02:36:09.000 That's not a normal human being.
02:36:11.000 You're a guy who's constantly trying to improve.
02:36:12.000 You're a guy who's sitting down every day, turning off all your distractions and doing...
02:36:16.000 Deep intellectual work.
02:36:18.000 That is not most people.
02:36:20.000 Now, if you could acquire a group of people that are your fans that have similar goals and similar discipline, that would be amazing.
02:36:29.000 But they would be your friends.
02:36:31.000 That's what ultimately we would like.
02:36:34.000 We would like all our interactions with people online to be people that we love and care about.
02:36:38.000 People that share like-minded goals.
02:36:40.000 People that you actually can learn from them.
02:36:43.000 You can listen to their words and see their deeds and see how they react to certain things and see how they grow and change.
02:36:50.000 And you actually benefit from this interaction.
02:36:53.000 There's a lot of people that are online that are not capable of that for whatever reason.
02:36:59.000 Whether it's programming, meaning what's happened to them in their life that's led them to this point.
02:37:04.000 Whatever failures or insurmountable...
02:37:08.000 Obstacles that have shown up in their life that have caused them to fall into this rut.
02:37:13.000 That's what you get.
02:37:14.000 You just get the numbers of humans you're interacting with online.
02:37:19.000 There's so many people.
02:37:20.000 And then also you get no social cues.
02:37:23.000 You don't feel bad when you say mean things to people.
02:37:26.000 You can say, hey man, you sucked on that show.
02:37:29.000 And you're like, oh, I thought it was a good episode.
02:37:32.000 Fuck, did I suck on your show?
02:37:35.000 That hurts people.
02:37:37.000 It bothers people, but that's what they're trying to do.
02:37:38.000 They're trying to bother you.
02:37:39.000 They're trying to lash out at you.
02:37:41.000 And the type of people that try to do that are overwhelmingly losers.
02:37:46.000 But, I have a dream.
02:37:51.000 There's 10 million plus people that like the Joe Rogan experience, and they're really cool people.
02:37:58.000 I meet them all the time.
02:38:00.000 Sure.
02:38:01.000 And I would love to go to the comment section and be inspired by the positive, thoughtful energies or even disagreements that come from a place of respect and love.
02:38:12.000 I go to books for that, for example.
02:38:14.000 I read books that are full of thoughtful disagreement or just like respectful, deep thinking.
02:38:21.000 And I go to comments, too, because they currently, for me, have 99% of them are that.
02:38:27.000 Okay.
02:38:27.000 But let me stop you there.
02:38:28.000 This is really important.
02:38:30.000 That's not what you're talking about.
02:38:31.000 What you're talking about is the negative ones.
02:38:33.000 All you've talked about is the negative ones.
02:38:35.000 You haven't said anything about the positive ones.
02:38:37.000 You haven't said anything about going to the comment section reading inspiring things.
02:38:41.000 You haven't said anything about going to the comment section reading helpful thoughts and strategies and different things that people have said in the comments that have really inspired you.
02:38:50.000 You haven't said anything about that, but you said at least three or four different things about negative comments that people said to the point where you're challenging people to fight.
02:38:58.000 You're giving out the address of your jujitsu school.
02:39:00.000 It's for fun.
02:39:01.000 Don't listen.
02:39:02.000 You're doing what you're doing.
02:39:04.000 Yeah.
02:39:04.000 Whether it's for fun or not, you're doing what you're doing.
02:39:06.000 You're dwelling on the negative so much that you're literally telling people where you train.
02:39:11.000 You understand that?
02:39:12.000 Yeah, I understand.
02:39:13.000 I mean, part of that, so you're doing a good job from a psychoanalyst perspective, but part of that is for fun.
02:39:21.000 I understand it's for fun.
02:39:22.000 They definitely have a disproportionate effect.
02:39:25.000 Especially for a person who's not, like, I'm genetically full of self-doubt.
02:39:30.000 I think of myself often as a fraud.
02:39:32.000 No, that's not full of self-doubt.
02:39:34.000 You know what that is?
02:39:35.000 You just have high expectations of your own performance.
02:39:37.000 I do too.
02:39:38.000 Listen, I'm not a fan of anything I do.
02:39:40.000 I'm the biggest critic of everything I do ever.
02:39:44.000 That's just how it goes.
02:39:45.000 I'm never satisfied.
02:39:46.000 But that's also why I continue to do things.
02:39:49.000 And the toxic negative comments connect to that little part of you or part of me.
02:39:53.000 And I'm bringing up the fact that I feel like the only solution cannot be not to read comments.
02:40:05.000 For now, that is the wise advice.
02:40:07.000 You're giving wise advice not to read comments.
02:40:08.000 But you have to deal with the landscape.
02:40:10.000 This is the landscape as it's presented to you.
02:40:12.000 You can't imagine a better world where there's no real solution.
02:40:16.000 Because there's no technological solution to avoid the trolls.
02:40:19.000 But here's the thing.
02:40:22.000 I'm trying to build it.
02:40:24.000 How are you going to build it?
02:40:27.000 Without giving away any intellectual secrets.
02:40:29.000 Well, I think systems that know more about you as a human in order to be able to incentivize better how to be a better human are needed.
02:40:44.000 So currently the AI systems, the recommender systems that feed most of the social networks, YouTube, Netflix, and so on, they know very little about you.
02:40:52.000 They have very primitive I think that's an AI problem.
02:41:12.000 I think that's a recommender system, what's called problem.
02:41:15.000 And that's where I've been working on.
02:41:19.000 I'm failing at it.
02:41:20.000 I've been at a pretty low point, actually, psychologically.
02:41:24.000 But that's a dream for me.
02:41:25.000 So the thing that I've talked about before, which is like building an AI girlfriend, It's not a correct way to phrase it.
02:41:35.000 It's more about AI systems being able to know you well and be an assistant, to form a connection with you in order to help you become the best version of yourself.
02:41:47.000 That's what friends do.
02:41:48.000 That's what girlfriends, partners do.
02:41:51.000 That's what I think AI systems can do.
02:41:54.000 I think it's possible, and I also think that when we get to the next generation of technologies, and this is, we're already, I'm at three hours here, I want to talk to you about, you were there for the Neuralink experiment, the most recent demonstration,
02:42:10.000 where they used it on a pig.
02:42:14.000 Tell me, what was that like?
02:42:17.000 There's the pig.
02:42:19.000 First of all, the pigs were very happy.
02:42:23.000 What they said in that presentation was pretty accurate.
02:42:26.000 They love food.
02:42:28.000 And they seemed happy.
02:42:30.000 And the people, the caretakers there, seemed like really good people.
02:42:34.000 And where's the implant on the pig?
02:42:37.000 Can you see it physically?
02:42:39.000 Actually, I don't know.
02:42:40.000 Yeah, it depends on which one we're looking at.
02:42:41.000 I think one of them, they showed three.
02:42:44.000 One, I think, didn't have it.
02:42:45.000 One had it, and I already had it removed.
02:42:47.000 And the other one, I think it was still actively in it.
02:42:49.000 So I don't remember them actually showing, like, here it is.
02:42:52.000 And what was the demonstration?
02:42:53.000 Like, how did they demonstrate how it worked?
02:42:58.000 Well, they...
02:42:59.000 So, first of all, I should say that I have no insider information.
02:43:03.000 I should...
02:43:04.000 Like, this is very much...
02:43:06.000 They're a company, okay?
02:43:08.000 I'm just some random dude that showed up...
02:43:11.000 Well, you've interviewed Elon before.
02:43:13.000 You know him.
02:43:13.000 But I'm not...
02:43:14.000 I don't have any insider information.
02:43:15.000 And more importantly, I'm an AI person.
02:43:20.000 So I'm not a neurobiologist.
02:43:23.000 Like...
02:43:23.000 This was really exciting to me as a spectator to see biological systems, pigs, that are interacting with computational systems.
02:43:34.000 But what I'm asking is what was the demonstration?
02:43:36.000 The actual demonstration was...
02:43:39.000 At the first level was that they successfully implanted Neuralink in a pig.
02:43:45.000 The pig seemed to be doing great.
02:43:47.000 And then they also showed a pig that had it taken out.
02:43:51.000 That's at one level.
02:43:52.000 What was going on with the pig that had Neuralink?
02:43:54.000 Was there any demonstration of what it was doing for the pig?
02:43:57.000 They were doing playback of the 124, so there's 124 channels, like the electrodes that connect to the brain that are firing, they're measuring the signals from neurons, and that's time on the x-axis, so from left to right that's time,
02:44:13.000 and then vertically that's the 124 points that are lighting up when a neuron is firing.
02:44:19.000 And they were playing that back and they played it back in such a way where they convert the signal into like musical notes so you can hear the signal.
02:44:26.000 It's another way to visualize it.
02:44:28.000 But, you know, it's showing that it's effectively being able to read the signal from 100...
02:44:35.000 Sorry, I'm not sure if I was saying 100...
02:44:38.000 I meant a thousand neurons or a thousand collection of neurons from the brain.
02:44:45.000 So that's two orders of magnitude.
02:44:48.000 That's a lot more than any other device has ever done.
02:44:51.000 So being able to get signals from the brain at a high resolution.
02:44:56.000 I mean, one day, I think the vision is that a thousand, just like you mentioned with the TVs, A resolution of a thousand is very low.
02:45:07.000 It would be millions or billions or trillions like it is for LCD displays.
02:45:11.000 But this is already a really effective Yeah, eventually your brain's just going to be filled with wires.
02:45:17.000 And then they're going to go, what do we need this brain for?
02:45:19.000 We're going to just come up with an artificial brain.
02:45:21.000 You're not even going to notice.
02:45:23.000 We're going to go to sleep.
02:45:24.000 It'll be gradual.
02:45:25.000 It'll be all gradual.
02:45:26.000 It'll be...
02:45:27.000 Same with...
02:45:28.000 I mean, it's a chase of technologies.
02:45:30.000 This might be obsolete and useless by the time we all live in a virtual reality world.
02:45:34.000 But this is what I was thinking when it comes to aliens.
02:45:37.000 When you look at the alien, the archetypal alien, what do you see?
02:45:40.000 You see something with a big head, big eyes, no genitals.
02:45:45.000 You know, you see no muscles.
02:45:47.000 You see just like a frame, just this weird structure.
02:45:51.000 And I wonder if we're going to get to a point where we start replacing things and improving things and we realize, well, there's some problems with our system and one of the problems is mating.
02:46:02.000 One of the problems is testosterone and estrogen and emotions and all these different things, the desire to control property and boundaries and all the different things, the territories, all the different things that make people tribal, all the different things that make people angry.
02:46:19.000 And maybe that's what's going to get in the way of innovation.
02:46:23.000 Maybe we're going to get to a point where...
02:46:25.000 There's going to be some sort of mind-sharing technology.
02:46:29.000 That's why they have big fucking heads, right?
02:46:31.000 Maybe there's going to be some sort of interaction technology, some vastly improved thing that's going to make regular biological functions seem so obsolete that we're going to readily cast them aside.
02:46:46.000 Or maybe we'll cast them aside slowly and gradually, like the evolution of the eyeball.
02:46:52.000 Yeah, absolutely.
02:46:53.000 I mean, on the flip side, in the Neuralink presentation, they talked about alleviating human suffering, for example.
02:47:01.000 To me, one concern is, you know, all the things that tribalism, all the, what is it, toxic masculinity, or all the things...
02:47:09.000 We're good to go.
02:47:26.000 It may not be as productive as we think.
02:47:29.000 Well, it certainly creates competition, and competition creates improvement.
02:47:33.000 I mean, that's the thing about if everyone just got along and everything was fine and perfect, would there be as much innovation?
02:47:41.000 And if ultimately this human being, this creature, when you look at the overall goal of this thing, as I was saying before, it seems that the goal of this thing is to make better stuff.
02:47:53.000 Well, the best way to make better stuff is to have some motivation to do that.
02:47:57.000 And that's where materialism comes in.
02:48:00.000 That's where sex comes in.
02:48:01.000 That's where greed and envy, all these different emotions that we think are very bad.
02:48:06.000 But generally speaking, if you talked about those emotions to people, they would say they're negative.
02:48:10.000 They would put them in a negative connotation.
02:48:12.000 But they might be what's powering people to move into this direction with more speed.
02:48:20.000 Yeah, and we all need to be trying to figure that out.
02:48:23.000 Mortality is a big part of the picture.
02:48:25.000 People that talk about immortality, it feels like...
02:48:28.000 Imagine if Joe Biden and Donald Trump lived forever.
02:48:32.000 We would have Clinton, Trump...
02:48:34.000 We have these families just forever running our world.
02:48:38.000 One of the things that makes this world run is the passing away of previous generations, of previous systems of thought and...
02:48:48.000 You know, you have to always consider like the things we see as negative that make up our psychology, make up different characteristics of human civilizations, are positive in some sense.
02:49:02.000 That wars create progress.
02:49:04.000 They create suffering, but they also create progress.
02:49:06.000 They create beautiful music and art.
02:49:08.000 They create the bonds of love and friendship like nothing else in this world.
02:49:15.000 Conflict and suffering The finiteness of life kind of makes life worth living for many people.
02:49:22.000 That is part of the problem, right?
02:49:23.000 In order to really appreciate the light, you've got to experience the darkness.
02:49:27.000 You have to know that darkness is real.
02:49:30.000 And one of the exciting things about Neuralink, understanding our mind, is not alleviating suffering, but enriching the way we experience the world.
02:49:40.000 Enriching the way we experience suffering, expanding the way we can experience the highs and the lows.
02:49:47.000 It's expanding our consciousness.
02:49:49.000 It's doing the thing that you jokingly said with mushrooms, but basically doing what mushrooms do, but in a controlled and much more powerful way.
02:49:59.000 Well, maybe something can transcend this biological limitation that we're discussing of being a human and that through this innovation, we can reach some point where there's a different motivation.
02:50:11.000 And this other motivation might be all peace and love.
02:50:15.000 It might be.
02:50:16.000 It might be that this motivation through this thing, if we can somehow or another suppress all the negative aspects of our biology and enhance all the positive aspects of camaraderie and love and friendship and do so in a way that's tangible for everybody.
02:50:31.000 That's another problem with things like Neuralink.
02:50:33.000 How much is this going to cost and how much is this going to separate the haves from the have-nots?
02:50:37.000 You know, Elon was telling me when he was discussing on the podcast, he said, you're going to be so much more productive if you have it.
02:50:46.000 Well, people who are more productive are more successful.
02:50:49.000 And if you need a lot of money in order to get it done and then you get it done and you're more productive and then more successful, ultimately it's going to create a wider and wider gap between people who have everything and people who have nothing.
02:51:02.000 If that individual productivity results in the increase of the gap, but it can also potentially, just like the individuals who have created some incredible technology in this world, you think about Ford, you think about Steve Jobs and Elon Musk,
02:51:22.000 They're individuals.
02:51:23.000 They're super weird, intelligent, and productive, but they ultimately created a better world with the inventions they made.
02:51:32.000 It's possible that the productivity of those individuals actually lifts all boats, that it creates ultimately a better world.
02:51:42.000 As that process goes on, more and more people will be able to afford these technologies.
02:51:47.000 So the lead adopters, the people that get it in the beginning, might have a disproportionate advantage.
02:51:54.000 But that disproportionate advantage doesn't necessarily create a negative outcome for the world.
02:52:03.000 If David Fravor, what he saw, was actually a thing trying to communicate that, as Elon said, love is the answer.
02:52:11.000 Say the aliens were trying to communicate love is the answer, and here's this badass pilot, Top Gun, Tom Cruise character, who just wasn't sure if he was going to shoot it or not kind of thing.
02:52:22.000 I wanted to fly it, but it was just saying, like, love is the answer.
02:52:26.000 Maybe when you expand the mind, maybe if it was on shrooms or with Neuralink, you'll be able to see that communication, and ultimately the thing you'll be able to see will be good for society.
02:52:38.000 Just because you'll be more productive, you won't try to get a bigger yacht, bigger house, Better cars.
02:52:47.000 But you'll see that we're all connected.
02:52:51.000 Being connected consciousness and that extra productivity you get will result in you helping others more effectively.
02:52:59.000 That's a real possibility too.
02:53:02.000 And I have faith in the smart people working on technology.
02:53:05.000 People kind of tend to be negative about technology, but I'm one of them and I work with a lot of them.
02:53:14.000 The people who are best at creating new ideas, they almost always have good intentions, but that's not enough.
02:53:25.000 They very often are good at doing good for the world.
02:53:31.000 So I have hope that the best people creating this technology, at Neuralink certainly, the people I've interacted with, are going to be aware of the negatives and are going to work their ass off to make a better world.
02:53:47.000 One of the most impressive things to me about Neuralink, people say negative stuff about Elon and so on, One of the most impressive things about Neuralink and the people I've interacted with at Tesla and all these companies is like there's a passion in their eyes.
02:54:01.000 These are some of the best people in the world at just being kids and loving what they do.
02:54:07.000 It's hard to put into words, but when you see that, that's what I see with you with comedy.
02:54:13.000 I don't know anything about comedy.
02:54:16.000 I'm just a spectator.
02:54:18.000 But there's a joy that...
02:54:20.000 I love seeing people who are good at what they do and love what they do and just losing themselves in it.
02:54:26.000 I have faith that when you give those people the power to do what they want to do...
02:54:31.000 That it'll create a better world.
02:54:32.000 And that's what Elon is doing.
02:54:35.000 And that's what I wish more companies and groups were doing.
02:54:39.000 I wish the US government would do that more.
02:54:42.000 Of have leaders that attract those weird, passionate people.
02:54:48.000 People that just have this fire in their eyes.
02:54:51.000 I remember the early days of Tesla with the first Gigafactory opening.
02:54:59.000 I happened to be there because I'd give a talk.
02:55:03.000 It was like 3 at night and the people working there at that factory in the middle of the desert The excitement in their eyes was like these ladies that look like they haven't slept for days,
02:55:19.000 but there was just this glimmer of just love for what they do.
02:55:24.000 I was like, that gives me faith that if these people are building our future, they're going to do a pretty good job.
02:55:30.000 Beautiful.
02:55:31.000 Can I just say one thing?
02:55:34.000 A poem thing.
02:55:38.000 A lot of people ask me to sing again because of my sexy voice.
02:55:43.000 No, they didn't.
02:55:44.000 Nobody.
02:55:45.000 My mom was like...
02:55:46.000 Even my mom didn't say...
02:55:48.000 Maybe that second song.
02:55:50.000 Maybe play piano or something.
02:55:54.000 No.
02:55:55.000 I just want to say...
02:55:57.000 Because we're talking about love...
02:56:03.000 My grandmother passed away just several days ago.
02:56:11.000 Everybody's different, but for me, she was one of the key people in my life that raised me.
02:56:16.000 She is responsible for much of the good that I am.
02:56:21.000 So she lived through Galdamor in the early 30s.
02:56:27.000 I'm not sure if you're familiar with it.
02:56:29.000 Most people think about the Holocaust or the atrocity of the 20th century, but Galdamor in Ukraine was when, basically because of the decisions that Stalin made, millions of people starved.
02:56:42.000 There are stories, that's for another time.
02:56:44.000 If you want to really hear about it, ask Jordan Pearson about it.
02:56:47.000 I have.
02:56:48.000 We've talked about it.
02:56:48.000 And there are stories where thousands of people practice cannibalism.
02:56:57.000 They ate their children.
02:56:59.000 Just to give you a context of what starvation does to human beings.
02:57:07.000 So she lived through that.
02:57:09.000 She lived through World War II. This beautiful teenage girl, woman, in Nazi-occupied city.
02:57:18.000 So all of that.
02:57:19.000 And she never talked about it.
02:57:21.000 She was a bad motherfucker.
02:57:25.000 She was the person that inspired me to be strong and a person that also to put love out there.
02:57:36.000 She loved her husband that passed on in the 80s, but it always radiated this deep love for other human beings that was forever...
02:57:46.000 The reason I talk about love a lot is she made it okay for me.
02:57:52.000 Sorry to go on tangents, but my dad is this witty Jew who's afraid to say anything.
02:58:00.000 He's kind of like Eric Weinstein.
02:58:02.000 He's brilliant.
02:58:03.000 He says stuff that's really interesting and clever.
02:58:06.000 My grandmother taught me that sometimes it's okay to say the cliché simple thing.
02:58:10.000 You don't always have to be super intelligent, super interesting, super complicated and eloquent.
02:58:15.000 You can just talk about love and talk simply even if it's a cliché thing.
02:58:21.000 She was 91 and I just wanted to say in this podcast that I miss her and she's the reason for any good that I am.
02:58:31.000 She's highly responsible for that.
02:58:36.000 I miss you.
02:58:36.000 I love you.
02:58:39.000 Not you, Joe.
02:58:40.000 My grandma.
02:58:40.000 I get it.
02:58:41.000 I don't know if there's a poem I want to do, but...
02:58:45.000 Do you not want to do it?
02:58:46.000 Do it.
02:58:47.000 No, I'll do...
02:58:48.000 So there's a bunch of Russian poems that I think I shouldn't, but the poem If by Kipling.
02:58:56.000 Okay.
02:58:57.000 I'd love to read it.
02:58:58.000 Sure.
02:58:58.000 It's okay.
02:58:59.000 It's a minute.
02:59:00.000 Okay.
02:59:02.000 Stop fucking with that.
02:59:03.000 Alright, fuck you.
02:59:05.000 I'm nervous, man.
02:59:08.000 You should be.
02:59:09.000 You're about to read a poem in front of millions of people.
02:59:11.000 And I'm speaking for the woman that probably is looking down, shaking her head like, what are you doing?
02:59:15.000 Drink vodka, shut the hell up.
02:59:18.000 If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you.
02:59:23.000 If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too.
02:59:28.000 If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, or being lied about, don't deal in lies, or being hated, don't give way to hating, and yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise.
02:59:40.000 If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim, if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same.
02:59:53.000 If you can bear to hear the truths you've spoken, twisted by knaves that make a trap for fools, or watch the things you gave your life to broken, and stoop and build them up with worn out tools.
03:00:06.000 If you can make one heap of all your winnings, and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss, and lose, and start again at your beginnings, and never breathe a word about your loss.
03:00:19.000 If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your turn long after they're gone, and so hold on when there's nothing in you except the will which says to them, hold on.
03:00:32.000 If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, or walk with kings and lose the common touch, if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much.
03:00:45.000 If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run, yours is the earth and everything that's in it.
03:00:55.000 And which is more, you'll be a man, my grandson.
03:01:01.000 Thanks, Joe.
03:01:02.000 Thank you.
03:01:03.000 Goodbye, everybody.