On this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, Joe talks about his time in space. He talks about what it's like to be on a space shuttle for over 200 days, what it was like to live in space, and how he managed to get back on the ground after such a long period of time. Joe also talks about some of the things he did to prepare for and recover from being in space for so long. Joe is a former astronaut and space shuttle pilot who served as commander of the space shuttle Endeavour and served as a commander on the Mir space station. He is also the co-host of the podcast The Joe Rogans Experience, which is a podcast hosted by comedian and podcaster, J.R. R. Rogan. Joe has been a friend of mine for a long time and I really enjoyed getting to know him and talk to him about his experience in space and what it takes to be a space pilot and commander. He's a great guy and I hope you enjoy listening to this episode. Thank you to Joe for coming on the show and for sharing his story and for being a part of this podcast! Joe is one of the most inspiring people I've ever met and I can't wait to have him on the pod! I hope it resonates with you and you enjoy it! XOXO, Timestamps: 3:00 - What's your favorite thing about space? 4:30 - What is your favorite part of spaceflight? 5:15 - What do you miss most about space travel? 6:40 - What are you looking forward to do in space 7: What's the worst thing about it? 8:00 9:20 - How does it feel like to go back after you've been in space ? 11:00- What would you want to do after you're back from space 13:30- What is the most important thing you can do after a long amount of time in a space flight? 14:30 15:00 -- How do you feel about your recovery after a spaceflight 16: What does your balance score? 17:30 -- how do you get back from a space trip? 18:40 -- what do you need to feel like after you ve had a good night out? 19:20 -- what is your balance? 21:40 22:20 What s your biggest challenge?
00:01:31.000I could walk around and they make you do this torture where you have to get on your stomach and do – it was like burpees, you know, get up as fast as you can.
00:01:38.000They were trying to make you pass out from orthostatic intolerance.
00:08:35.000So even the exercise of you running on a treadmill or you doing squats, there's a lot of, if you're pushing 400 pounds this way, something's pushing 400 pounds that way, right?
00:08:45.000And if you're going up and down in the right frequency, it'll snap the station in half.
00:08:53.000So in this IMAX movie I made A Beautiful Planet, you can see there's a scene of me running on the treadmill and my crewmate Samantha doing weightlifting.
00:09:01.000And the machines are just going up and down.
00:09:41.000I mean, it's so hard to push on the treadmill and...
00:09:44.000It was supposed to be 20 seconds of sprint, 10 second rest, 20 seconds, but I was usually like 10 seconds of sprint, 20 seconds of rest because four minutes of that, I would put one song on and by the end of the song I was wiped out.
00:09:54.000But it's a good, it gets your Achilles and your calf, your lower muscles to work out there.
00:13:18.000So on the space station flight, so my 200-day long duration flight, the day starts about 7.30 in the morning, which is GMT, so London time.
00:13:28.000And we would start off with like a conference call.
00:13:30.000So everybody would get around a microphone and we'd call Houston and Moscow and Huntsville, Alabama, which they do the payloads, Europe and Japan.
00:13:40.000So we kind of go through all the different communication centers around the world, mission control centers.
00:13:46.000Hey, today you're doing this experiment.
00:13:48.000Grab this piece of equipment or this thing got canceled.
00:14:26.000When you know you have to be committed to something for like 200 days, does it start to feel prison-like, where you're kind of counting down the days you can get back to early?
00:15:52.000It was time for something to work, and it did, thankfully.
00:15:56.000Oh, God, imagine if it didn't, if three more back-to-back-to-back?
00:15:59.000Yeah, if four would have happened, we would have probably had to start bringing guys back and just leave a skeleton crew up there.
00:16:04.000But thankfully that didn't happen, and thanks to the guys in Houston and Moscow and everywhere, they had managed the backup food that was...
00:19:43.000But it was like years, and I finally got over this hill.
00:19:46.000So it went from being really tough to like, I loved it, and I needed it, and I wanted more, and I put my phone on Russian, and I was always trying to just speak Russian.
00:19:56.000So it was this weird, like it went from...
00:21:18.000Those guys were so savage to be able to do that and to know that there's a high percentage of these things that you're testing that are likely to fail and you're breaking the speed of sound.
00:21:38.000We went in the room and we sat down and put in the DVD. And I flew the DVD... And I wanted to give it to Tom Wolfe, and unfortunately, he passed away, too.
00:21:46.000But, yeah, the odds in the 60s and 70s and 40s and 50s were not good.
00:21:53.000And there's a scene in The Right Stuff.
00:21:55.000I don't know if you remember, like, Jaeger's out riding his horse, and he falls off of it and breaks his arm.
00:21:59.000So his engineer, like, does this thing, puts a broom handle, and just to let...
00:23:09.000There was an F-104 that Chuck Yeager flew in the movie.
00:23:13.000This guy would bring the F-104 out and A couple of test pilot students would get to fly one D flight once, and then we would give him a ride in one of our F-16s or T-38s as payment.
00:23:25.000How long could those things go without running out of gas?
00:23:31.000I directed a film last year where we set a record flying around the planet, and we used an F-104 as our chase plane because we were going really fast and we needed something fast to film us.
00:23:42.000But they could only pick us up about 15 minutes out because they were out of gas.
00:27:19.000But the mental skill of having situational awareness and being able to stay ahead of the jet, you're flying at 300 knots or 500 knots, so things are happening fast.
00:27:28.000And you're out of gas as soon as you take off and there's bad, there's Texas thunderstorms and so that being able to think under pressure.
00:27:58.000So what you're saying is that flying this jet prepares you for space travel just because of the fact that it's difficult to do and because the principles apply?
00:29:59.000Seeing the planet, it's like, yeah, this thing's been around for a long time and it's going to be around for a long time, so you probably don't need to get as uptight about the day-to-day stress of life.
00:30:13.000It just kind of put things in perspective, like don't get too excited about the Kardashians or whatever the latest political tweet was or whatever.
00:30:22.000Things are going to go on for a long time.
00:30:25.000So it helps put that in perspective in a big way.
00:30:27.000It's interesting that an actual physical perspective changed.
00:30:31.000Just being in a different place where you're looking down on it from a different vantage point.
00:32:16.000But to be honest, we're probably not the best communicators of emotion.
00:32:22.000We're not necessarily all touchy-feely people, but some of my close friends that we talk about this, there's a very similar perspective of we're all here on the planet together.
00:32:32.000I was on my first flight on the shuttle, and it was the fifth, I remember it was the fifth night there.
00:32:37.000And when I looked out, we were going over the Mediterranean at night, and you could see there's this U-shape where there's Egypt and the Nile, there's Israel and Syria and Lebanon are right there, and there's Turkey and Greece.
00:33:20.000One of the things, after my flight, so they'd sent us to Congress and we talked to congressmen and senators, and I got to talk at the White House a couple years ago at the National Space Council.
00:33:29.000And my message to them is always the same.
00:33:31.000It's always, you know, for a space program, it's not about the rocket science.
00:33:44.000If it wasn't for those other fuckers on the other side, we could get this right.
00:33:47.000Republicans and Democrats all said that they all totally agreed with me and it was always the other guy's fault.
00:33:52.000There's definitely a problem that is going to be tough to overcome.
00:33:56.000How much benefit would there be in getting those people in space?
00:34:00.000Yeah, you know, people talk about that.
00:34:02.000If only that leaders could go into space, and I think for some of them it would make an impact, and some of them, they wouldn't care.
00:34:07.000I mean, there's this— Well, the goal of politics and power is just to keep yourself in power and get more stuff for yourself and, you know, throughout human history.
00:34:17.000It's not normally, you know, altruistic democracies, the way we run ourselves.
00:34:22.000So, which we need to move in that direction.
00:34:25.000Because that's the way life gets better.
00:34:26.000But I think some of it would benefit and some of it wouldn't.
00:34:30.000The thing is, no one really wants the job that is balanced and healthy and intelligent and has a good perspective for humanity.
00:34:40.000The people that want the job, they want to be the King Poobah.
00:35:09.000It's fascinating to me how many of the astronauts do have this incredibly profound experience.
00:35:18.000Again, just from the physical act of being above Earth and looking down on it, where this perspective shift just kind of changes your overall thoughts about being in space.
00:35:34.000Humanity on this organic spaceship in the universe, rather than being locked down in Chicago, clouds above you, so you don't even think about space, stuck in traffic, on your way to work every day, same grind.
00:35:49.000You get stuck in this narrow-minded perspective.
00:35:52.000Almost every astronaut who discusses this says that it was a profound, life-changing moment to look at Earth from above.
00:38:24.000If Earth were just a little bit bigger, we could never leave it.
00:38:27.000Like, physics would not allow you to leave it because of the rocket equation.
00:38:31.000This Russian guy, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, 100 years ago figured out that how fast you can go in a rocket is directly related to how fast your propellant goes out the back.
00:38:42.000So the faster you shoot your propellant out the back...
00:38:45.000The faster you can go forward, which makes sense.
00:38:48.000And when you burn a fuel and an oxidizer, so chemical propulsion, you can only get it going so fast.
00:38:57.000You can't shoot stuff out the speed of light.
00:39:01.000There's a limit to how fast you can go.
00:39:04.000So if Earth were just a little bit bigger and gravity were just a little bit heavier, no one would ever be able to leave the planet unless they figured out some other transportation system that physics says is probably not going to happen anytime soon for sure.
00:39:48.000Yeah, on a three-year round trip, which is a lot of food and underwear and spare parts to bring with you.
00:39:55.000If you use electric propulsion, which a lot of satellites use electric propulsion, so instead of burning something and shooting it out the back, you take an ionized gas like xenon or helium or hydrogen or something, you make an electric charge, you have an electric plate,
00:40:10.000and positive and positive, it repels itself.
00:40:15.000So you shoot ionized gas out backwards.
00:42:05.000The problem with colonizing planets, and you mentioned terraforming.
00:42:09.000So if you've got a small telescope, you can see the polar ice caps on Mars.
00:42:13.000You can see water on Mars from your backyard in Texas.
00:42:17.000The problem is, let's say you went up there and you melted all that water and you made an atmosphere.
00:42:21.000It would blow away really quickly because there's no magnetic field.
00:42:25.000See, the reason we have an atmosphere on Earth is because we have this magnetic field that protects us from the solar wind and from radiation.
00:42:31.000That's why we're alive today is because we have this magnetic field.
00:42:34.000Mars doesn't have that, so you can never terraform Mars.
00:42:37.000Even though there's books written about it, people talk about it.
00:44:02.000When you turn the lights off in the cupola on the space station and you let your eyes adjust, just like the stars are bright, you know, deep at night and deep in the heart of Texas.
00:44:58.000And life is infinitely more complicated than a bottle of water.
00:45:02.000So I came out of my spaceflight thinking, not religiously, but from a scientific point of view, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.
00:45:11.000The physics behind the weak electromagnetic force and the weak nuclear force and the How our bodies are made.
00:45:45.000And that these things adapt and change and shift and you have all these biological forces that are competing.
00:45:51.000Like if you think about life on Earth.
00:45:54.000You have all these various biological forces that are competing for dominance, right?
00:46:00.000There's animals that are eating animals, animals that are taking over resources, and then you've got this one animal that figures out how to manipulate matter, and how to manipulate environments, and how to use its opposing thumbs, and use its brain, and the brain grows larger, and you see this process.
00:46:16.000But this process all has to do with trying to adapt, trying to innovate, and competing with all these other forces.
00:46:24.000It seems like problems and difficulties present themselves, and these organisms either make their way through these problems and come out on the other end adapted to them and better, or they don't.
00:47:02.000I'm just – I want to talk science, not religion.
00:47:05.000I'm a Christian, but I don't want to talk religion.
00:47:07.000But just – I don't know how it happened.
00:47:09.000It's not a simplistic – somebody just went poof and everything happened.
00:47:13.000Obviously, there's – things evolve and there's science behind it, which is the fun part of – Living is learning how stuff works and learning the science behind it.
00:47:24.000But just at the end of the day, I think somebody had to set things in motion with a point of view.
00:48:13.000What is your perspective on the Big Bang?
00:48:16.000A lot of people's views vary depending upon what the most recent theories are.
00:48:24.000Some people believe that the universe started with the Big Bang, and some people believe that it's always existed, and it's a continuing cycle of Big Bang's endless expansion, and then ultimately contraction, and then it starts all over again.
00:48:40.000And that there's infinite numbers of Big Bangs that are occurring through multiverses and various universes all over the world or all over the cosmos.
00:49:18.000They think there's a stuff called dark energy, so does it continue expanding?
00:49:22.000And she calls it heat decay, or this other one's the big rip where it just keeps on expanding, accelerating, and like even electrons can't, everything just disintegrates into nothing.
00:49:34.000And no one knows what's going to happen.
00:49:35.000But the really cool thing, I was just reading the chapter about...
00:49:38.000As it expands super fast, I forgot the name of it, Boltzmann's brain or something, there's some weird thing where, because of quantum physics, which is completely not understandable, if you say you understand quantum mechanics, you don't.
00:49:55.000So if the universe is going to be around for trillions of years, like in theory, At some point, two trillion years from now, Joe Rogan could just suddenly create itself out of nothing in the universe, and you'd look around and go, wow, what's going on?
00:50:10.000And then you'd disappear instantly because of quantum mechanics.
00:50:34.000But things can just suddenly appear somewhere.
00:50:38.000And so given enough time, even though it's highly unlikely, this water bottle could create itself out of nothing just because of physics, quantum mechanics.
00:50:48.000I remember my teacher at the Air Force Academy used the example of all of the electrons and protons and stuff could suddenly move themselves and you could just fall through the floor.
00:50:59.000Now, the odds of that happening, it ain't going to happen for a trillion years, but these weird things can happen.
00:51:05.000And so she uses this kind of cheeky, funny example of, you know, your brain could just suddenly create itself out of nothing and given enough time, the probability would...
00:51:14.000So some people say the whole universe is just this temporary thing that created itself, but I don't know.
00:51:20.000It's very disconcerting when you hear them talk about quantum mechanics.
00:51:27.000You start going, wait, two things can exist simultaneously in different places, and one of them could be in motion, the other one could be still, and they're the same thing, and they appear and disappear, and what?
00:52:06.000It does make things seem a lot more mystical than just the standard...
00:52:15.000Sort of Newtonian physics perspective of life and gravity and matter and carbon-based life forms.
00:52:24.000When you start getting into just listening to what they're talking about when they're talking about quantum weirdness and entanglements and things in superposition, you're like, wait, what is the world made of?
00:52:34.000When you get down to the smallest possible measurement of life, the smallest things that you can measure, the world becomes magic.
00:54:03.000And I don't understand them all, but in images, they're really cool.
00:54:07.000Have you ever seen videos on fractals where they show you things like the Mandelbrot set and how the closer you get to these fractals, the same sort of pattern repeats itself over and over and over again?
00:54:23.000It's one thing to comprehend it if someone's explaining it to you in a lecture, but it's another thing now with the advent of CGI technology, you can see these fractals be repeated over and over and over again.
00:54:35.000And the Mandelbrot set is a particularly interesting one because it's so beautiful and weird.
00:54:39.000And each part of that as they go deeper...
00:54:43.000See if you can find a video on it because it's pretty badass.
00:54:52.000But that these patterns, if the universe really is a part of an atom that's in a being, or a part of a cell that's in a being that exists in, you know, the idea of infinity, too.
00:55:06.000We think of the universe as being massive.
00:56:06.000Yeah, like if you go on a super trip, like a real trip where you can't come back for four or five hours, this is the kind of shit that you'll see.
00:56:15.000And it makes you wonder, like, are you looking at the very fabric of the cosmos itself?
00:56:23.000So I think there's a theory, string theory is kind of popular for small stuff, what electrons are made out of in the smallest subatomic level.
00:56:33.000And if I remember right, 10 to the minus 33rd meters, which is pretty small, but I think that's as small as you can get.
00:57:10.000Is there pushback against that at all in science and in dealing with these experiments that you're dealing with and being someone who's in space?
00:58:09.000He believed that the universe, the steady state universe, and he eventually said it was the worst mistake of his life, but he didn't think there was a Big Bang.
00:58:15.000He thought everything just was forever.
00:58:19.000So in some ways, ironically, it kind of says what it is, but from my perspective, I just want to learn the science behind stuff, and I don't get, I don't think it conflicts with religion at all.
00:58:31.000I mean, I think just learning about stuff points to somebody really smart who's had something to do with making it all.
00:58:37.000The interesting thing about these people that lived 5,000 years ago that had this perception of things beginning and then the universe existing.
00:58:49.000They talk about God making the universe in six days.
00:58:52.000I think when we're talking about things like that and you're getting translations that are thousands and thousands of years old...
00:58:59.000And no one even speaks those languages anymore.
00:59:02.000You know, like ancient Hebrew, which is the original language that the Bible was written in.
01:00:04.000I mean, it was actually what physicists, it took them thousands of years to figure out that that's what happened first.
01:00:09.000It would be so fascinating to sit down.
01:00:12.000If there was a way where you could do like Google Translate on people who lived 5,000 years ago, you had a time machine, sit down with the very people who were Trying to figure out how to write this stuff down, and that this is important information to pass on to other people.
01:01:59.000Otherwise, all the intermediate steps are just you're in your worst shape than your buddy until the eyeball is working and can detect things.
01:02:48.000But I think that people want to simplify things and look at it in terms of that there's a creator, that that's the reason why these eyeballs work the way they work.
01:03:22.000I know the right zeros to write down on a piece of paper.
01:03:24.000I can say the name, four billion or eight billion or whatever...
01:03:30.000Enormous number you want to talk about.
01:03:32.000I don't think our brains can comprehend it.
01:03:33.000So when you're talking about millions and millions of years of evolution until an eyeball pops up, I think it's just such an incredible span of time and these changes that take place.
01:03:49.000There's shifts in natural selection and random mutations and adaptations and all these things.
01:03:55.000It's just so complex and it takes so long.
01:03:58.000It's like we're, you know, the ant on the table can't understand the ceiling.
01:04:06.000I don't want to pretend like I know anything because there's probably so much stuff that I haven't even scratched the surface of understanding.
01:04:41.000Has there always been something forever?
01:04:43.000Even before the Big Bang, was there what you talked about before, where there's this insane expansion of things to the point where everything dissolves and disappears, and then somehow or another on the other side, it contracts?
01:04:55.000Or are there infinite universes and each one of them has a lifespan?
01:05:00.000And then there's just a constant cycle of new universes being birthed out of Big Bangs.
01:07:04.000It's an odd thing, because I think there's genuine beauty in most religions.
01:07:11.000You can learn a lot about human beings and the way they use ethics and morals in their life and what they've learned from their religion.
01:07:23.000When you watch the Muslims gather around Mecca and go around that circle, you don't think there's something kind of beautiful about that, amazing about that?
01:08:01.000And I guarantee you, if we were being invaded and attacked by Muslims all the time, there'd probably be some radical fundamentalist Christians that would want to do the same thing that some Muslim sects have done.
01:08:36.000I think some of the problems are the same problems that we were talking about earlier when we were talking about politicians.
01:08:40.000The problem is a person then takes control of the reins, and then their ego gets involved, and then they want to impose their rules and their structure on other people, and then you get crazy fundamentalist pastors or radical imams and all these different people that...
01:08:59.000Or in control of the texts, or in control of the leadership.
01:09:03.000When you see someone, whether it's Joel Osteen, on stage in front of thousands and thousands of people, leading them in this...
01:09:11.000Is that really Christianity anymore, or is that a cult of personality?
01:10:06.000If there was undeniable proof of extraterrestrial life that's visiting Earth, and then everyone knows it, it's real, it's as real as the NFL. It's real.
01:10:21.000It's all filmed in a studio in New Mexico.
01:10:25.000But if there was something along those lines, that would be interesting to see how people adjust to the idea that not only is there life out there besides us, that our origin story is not unique, and there's origin stories of countless planets all throughout space,
01:11:42.000And if you attach yourself to your opinions and you're married to those opinions, and you have to defend them if you know they're not correct, you lose respect for yourself.
01:13:43.000A lot of it comes down to how women are treated and places where women are treated better, all the metrics are better, the whole economy gets a lot better.
01:13:50.000So anyway, a lot of things in the world have gotten better.
01:13:54.000Hopefully we can continue that trend and hopefully this current, this is kind of my mission, this current divisive universe we live in, hopefully that doesn't reverse it because if it does, it'll suck for life on earth and we need to keep things moving in the right direction.
01:14:08.000Yeah, I'm hoping that we come out of this, that this is a bad wave that we're on and we're going to come out the other end and recognize that there's real value in community and in getting along with each other and coming to agreements and real danger and divisiveness and being completely locked into these tribal beliefs like red versus blue.
01:14:35.000Young people growing up with a better perspective, listening to people that have gone through more in life and kind of understanding where the pitfalls lie, understanding the mental pitfalls that exist, just the natural inclination that human beings have to be tribal.
01:14:49.000And that these, when you're blaming everything on the Republicans or blaming everything on the Democrats or blaming everything on, you know, whoever it is that's in power.
01:14:59.000There's a lot to be said about being a human being in 2020 where it's pretty fucking amazing.
01:15:21.000In America, young people are not nearly as tribal as we were.
01:15:25.000By race, by religion, by country, whatever it is.
01:15:30.000Old people tend to be very tribal, and young people, they're happy to have someone from a different race, friends, and they don't care what your religion is.
01:15:38.000High schoolers and college kids that I know have, I think, a pretty good attitude.
01:15:43.000We just need to make sure, you know, between the media, the things that they see, you know, AI, and I don't know where that's going, but that is a force that does not necessarily unite us.
01:15:55.000The incentives are to divide us and make you angry and that's where they get monetized.
01:18:23.000Well, they talk about the echo chamber.
01:18:25.000It's a self-reinforcing, self-licking ice cream cone where it just...
01:18:30.000Unfortunately, it's taking us in a really bad direction, right?
01:18:32.000Well, that's why people like Trump supporters are absolutely 100% convinced that he won this election and there's been a massive fraud.
01:18:40.000And Democrats are 100% convinced that he's delusional and there's no evidence whatsoever of voter fraud.
01:18:48.000And if you look at a person who is a Democrat who goes on YouTube all the time, you look at their YouTube feed, It's everything reinforcing those ideas.
01:18:56.000CNN and MSNBC. And if you go to someone who's a hardcore Trumper, everything is Newsbacks, Sky News Australia, Breitbart shit.
01:19:05.000It's all stuff that's reinforcing the idea there's massive voter fraud.
01:19:10.000And you have like two different worlds that are existing.
01:19:29.000So there's this thing called a bell curve, right?
01:19:33.000Most everything in life is in the middle of the fat part of the curve.
01:19:36.000There's some extreme on the right, some extreme on the left.
01:19:38.000If you look at the batting average of catchers or how many people are in a Whole Foods or the average temperature in July, everything's a bell curve, right?
01:19:48.000And I think politics, most people are not radical, right?
01:20:00.000We've got to have police quit shooting people.
01:20:03.000They believe in reasonably moderate stuff.
01:20:07.000And the political system, you talk about the algorithms in social media, the political system has the same thing.
01:20:13.000The primary system, the way you do gerrymandering, all of this is a self-reinforcing mechanism that promotes extreme right-wing candidates that are batshit crazy.
01:21:48.000All the same things they called out about the Trump administration.
01:21:51.000There's going to be a few people, like the really radical guys like Jimmy Dore, that's got balls, is going to talk against it.
01:21:57.000But there's going to be a tremendous amount of people that just go along with it because they don't want to be called out for not supporting the party.
01:29:24.000So I was, by that point, I was not, I was at NASA, I wasn't flying F-16, so I never heard about it.
01:29:30.000But other guys had heard stories about it.
01:29:32.000And, you know, there's, you can look at the radar tapes, and you can look at the HUD, the infrared HUD heads-up display, you know, the view out the front of the airplane.
01:30:31.000Well, I've seen ones where they're talking about people in the space station, where they say that the space station is all green screen, and you can see there's a glitch in the video quality.
01:30:41.000So they say, here you see, there's an error, and he's not even holding the hammer anymore.
01:31:03.000Well, so Bill Clinton couldn't cover up Monica Lewinsky.
01:31:08.000So how is NASA covering up 300,000 people?
01:31:12.000They convinced them all to never say a word for 50 years, you know?
01:31:16.000Like, of course you can't cover anything up today because somebody's going to get a video of it.
01:31:21.000I think you can cover things up in the 60s a lot easier than you can cover things up today.
01:31:25.000Yeah, but we got satellites that are taking pictures of the Apollo 11 lander, and you can see the boot prints where they walked around and, you know.
01:31:44.000They just found old space stuff from rocket launches that they were trying to figure out what this object was that was hurling around Earth.
01:33:28.000The Navy has its own little space command.
01:33:30.000Or the Army has its own space command.
01:33:32.000So it kind of didn't make sense to have all these space guys that are launching rockets and not flying satellites working for the infantrymen, right, or a boat driver.
01:33:43.000So they kind of just organized it all together.
01:33:45.000So they didn't, like, create stormtroopers or X-Wing fighters.
01:33:50.000It was more of a reorganization thing.
01:33:53.000Personally, I think we need a cyber force also because...
01:33:58.000You don't need a million of them, but you need tens of thousands of computer nerds that know how to do computer stuff, because it's really important.
01:34:07.000Today, they're working for an infantryman and a boat driver and a pilot, and I think they need their own organization, too.
01:34:13.000Yeah, no, I think that makes a lot of sense.
01:34:15.000But this Space Force thing, how do they plan on expanding this?
01:34:20.000Like, it just was named Space Force for the last couple years, right?
01:35:43.000So you could launch a rocket, go up, and pick up this piece of metal that got blown up, and you could grab it with a robotic arm and bring it back to Earth.
01:35:51.000There's 10,000 other pieces that are going eight kilometers a second in other directions.
01:35:56.000So then you need to launch another rocket to go pick up the other one.
01:36:15.000So there are people trying to think of it.
01:36:17.000There's really smart Silicon Valley tech.
01:36:19.000If you could figure it out, you could make a lot of money.
01:36:21.000Does anybody have any sort of viable plan?
01:36:25.000I've heard about some gel concepts where you just kind of move the thing and it gets stuck in it like a fly, not a fly net, but sort of like flypaper.
01:36:34.000That's how NASA did a mission years ago, Stardust, where they flew this gel through a comet's tail and all the particles got stuck in the gel.
01:36:42.000It's going really fast, but it got stuck.
01:36:46.000And then it came back to Earth and they dug through the gel and picked out these little dust particles.
01:36:51.000So there's things you can do, but the best thing to do is just don't create the mess.
01:36:55.000Yeah, but we already have so much mess up there, right?
01:36:57.000And then there's also satellites that are eventually going to go dark.
01:37:01.000So the Russians had a satellite that died maybe 10 years ago, and it...
01:37:08.000Ran into an Iridium satellite, which is a satellite telephone satellite.
01:37:12.000So when you do sat phones, it goes through Iridium, one of the systems.
01:37:16.000Anyway, it exploded, made a bunch of mess.
01:37:19.000We got to maneuver the space station a couple times a year to avoid that debris.
01:37:22.000So if you actually had a shooting war where some country said, you know what, America depends on, our military is dependent on satellites, and we want to blind them.
01:38:54.000The movie Gravity was based on that premise, the Kessler syndrome, where one satellite makes a cloud, and that hits 10 satellites, and that makes a bigger cloud, and it's this cascading effect.
01:39:04.000Hopefully it doesn't happen, but if it did, it would make a mess that's not clean-up-able.
01:39:09.000If we pollute a river, you can stop polluting it, you can clean it up.
01:39:14.000Within years or decades, it'll clean up eventually.
01:39:18.000But when you pollute space, you may have to wait thousands of years for the stuff to decay.
01:40:03.000You know, we used to have shuttle launch.
01:40:05.000We were waiting until the last second to launch a shuttle to see if there was going to be a, we call it a conjunction, when two pieces come together in orbit.
01:40:16.000When I did my spacewalks on the outside of the station, you see lots of little divots like the size of this, you know, just little things where a piece of paint or a...
01:40:28.000A nut or a bolt or something hit it going 8 kilometers a second.
01:43:48.000Did you ever like, I mean, you're up there, you're seeing so many stars and so many, I mean, you have this insane view of the universe as you were describing.
01:46:48.000The problem is actually getting it into these products.
01:46:52.000Interesting, you can put it in like concrete or asphalt and it's, you know, 10% stronger, cures 10% quicker, which in construction is massive.
01:47:02.000The Rome airport just paved a taxiway with graphene-infused asphalt, which is pretty cool.
01:47:09.000In Austin, there's not a lot of potholes, but imagine if you had roads without potholes.
01:47:15.000How much money could the local government save and how many tires would be saved from that?
01:47:21.000If you could 3D print materials that weren't just bendable plastic but were super steel, what applications could you do with that?
01:48:07.000Wow, so strength and lightweight qualities that surpass that of carbon fiber make graphene the potential game changer in the car world.
01:48:15.000According to a BAC press release, graphene is made of sheets of carbon that are just one atom thick and significantly lighter than standard carbon fiber.
01:48:24.000It's also stronger than carbon fiber, meaning that it can bring weight reductions around 20% while being 200 times stronger than steel.
01:52:42.000They did it in 2004 for their first test flight.
01:52:46.000And here it is, 2020. Hopefully next year they're going to do it for real.
01:52:50.000Um, but they have origin orbit where instead of people, they put a big satellite on there and launch it into space.
01:52:56.000And the idea is you, you know, instead of having boosters for the first stage, you have a airliner for the first stage and that gets you to 500 miles an hour and 30,000 feet, which is a lot of the requirement to get into space.
01:53:11.000They did that with the Space Shuttle, right?
01:53:13.000They did things where the Space Shuttle was on top of a plane.
01:53:17.000That was called SALT, Shuttle Approach and Landing Testing.
01:53:20.000That was like 1977, I think, where they put it on a 747, and then the 747 pushed and the shuttle pulled up, and then it just came into land.
01:53:28.000But that was a glider enterprise, Space Shuttle Enterprise, the test landing.
01:53:35.000Virgin Galactic is launching a historic human space flight this week.
01:54:34.000When you were talking about the three explosions that happened in a row when they were coming to relieve you guys or bring you supplies, how often do these things blow up?
01:56:35.000You're just trying to get jobs for congressional districts.
01:56:38.000And when you look at today's government programs, they just take decades and cost billions and often don't produce very much.
01:56:45.000Private companies, on the other hand, can't raise taxes, so they've got to get their stuff flying as fast as they can.
01:56:51.000So there's this incentive to, if you blow something up, fix it and launch again the next day.
01:56:57.000So that's really good, and you can get...
01:56:59.000You know, engineers going right out of college, and there's a lot of really great things about the private space.
01:57:06.000Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, a guy named Tim Ellis at Relativity, who's amazing, is young, he's probably 30 years old now, has this amazing rocket company, and I think he's raised over $100 million in VC funding.
01:57:20.000The bad side of it is they do blow up sometimes, and they don't necessarily have 50 years of lessons, we always say they're written in blood.
01:57:28.000The rules are written in blood because somebody died and you had to come up with a new rule.
01:57:35.000For people, you've got to have some adult supervision to keep the engineers with their hair on fire under control a little bit.
01:57:44.000Do you think that competition within private industry, like you got Jeff Bezos company, you got Elon Musk company, Virgin Galactic, you got all these different companies that are trying to compete against each other.
01:57:54.000Do you think that that is going to push innovation further than just relying on, like you're saying, these bureaucrats?
01:58:02.000I mean, without the Yankees, the Red Sox are going to suck, right?
01:58:04.000So you have to have, in fighting, in life in general, you got to have competition or you're not going to, you won't push yourself to that next level.
01:58:12.000Right, and the Russians were always our competition during the initial space race, right?
01:58:16.000So the fear of that Soviet flag on the moon...
01:58:26.000We were going to do this slow buildup project and then Apollo 1 fire happened that slowed everything down.
01:58:33.000The Soviets had this big N1 moon rocket and NASA made the really ballsy decision to send Apollo 8 on a lap around the moon, which kind of sped up the moon landing by one or two missions.
01:58:45.000That enabled it to land in 1969. Had they not made that kind of gutsy call, Apollo 11 probably would not have happened in 69. So sometimes you've got to take a chance.
01:58:55.000And they're talking about putting some sort of a base on the moon.
01:59:18.000They could conceivably have a base on the moon where astronauts could go there, visit, do their stuff, and then come back the same way you do with the space station.
01:59:51.000So you could definitely, if you had the money and you had the vision and you knew what you were going to do, that kind of thing definitely could happen, yeah.
02:00:55.000If you make a crazy thing, then you're never going to get there.
02:00:58.000Like if I say I want to run a marathon in three hours, that's never going to happen.
02:01:02.000But if I go, I want to run a marathon without running, I could probably get there.
02:01:07.000So you have to have goals that are probably more, you know, on the edge.
02:01:11.000You can't make some crazy goal that's never going to happen.
02:01:13.000Being a part of this whole space program and having spent so much time in the space station, do you ever, like, just daydream and think, what is it going to be like a thousand years from now?
02:01:22.000What is it going to be like 5,000 years from now?
02:03:43.000I've become more fascinated over the last few years, like three or four years.
02:03:46.000And then after the New York Times story three years ago, the front page of the New York Times, they're talking about the footage that these fighter jets have acquired.
02:04:48.000You know, they're never going to get there.
02:04:51.000And to think about building a spaceship, and that was just a little small thing the size of this table, to build a spaceship big enough to hold hundreds and thousands of generations would be huge.
02:05:03.000There probably isn't enough chemical propellant on Earth to launch something that fast that would take thousands of years.
02:05:11.000So the ability to get to these other stars is, I don't think it's ever going to happen.
02:05:17.000It's going to be thousands of years in the future.
02:05:19.000Well, this is with our limited understanding.
02:05:54.000And the Sun is a lot louder than our transmitter here, right?
02:05:58.000And so the signal-to-noise ratio, you would never be able to tell that there's aliens there.
02:06:02.000In this three-body problem, they invent this thing where we send a signal to Jupiter, and Jupiter is a big amplifier, right?
02:06:09.000It's like your electric guitar amplifier.
02:06:11.000But the science fiction writer understood signal-to-noise ratio, and he knew that nobody would ever be able to hear our signal.
02:06:17.000So the two problems are, how do you know that there's aliens there?
02:06:20.000Because unless they're sending out a flashlight brighter than their star, which would destroy their planet, we're never going to hear them or know that they're there.
02:06:28.000And then even if we knew they were there, how do you launch something that's so far away it would take a thousand generations of people to get there?
02:06:37.000Whatever Fravor saw, there was a measurement of this object that went from 60,000 feet above sea level to one in a second.
02:06:47.000It was better than the Tesla Roadster.
02:08:00.000Well, the weapons were at Barksdale Air Force Base and Minot Air Force Base.
02:08:04.000Well, they probably went to a lot of these different places.
02:08:06.000Supposedly, there's a documentary that's out called The Phenomenon that shows all the different instances that were reported on military bases, Freedom of Information Act requests that showed things that happened in different places.
02:08:21.000On areas where there was nuclear weapons and areas where there was testing facilities after the first atomic bombs were dropped.
02:08:30.000So after the Trinity Project, after the Manhattan Project, when they started detonating nuclear bombs, that's when the uptick of alien activity.
02:08:41.000If you're following chimps in the Congo, and then some chimp figures out, listen, if I take this This bamboo thing and pack it full of dynamite.
02:09:19.000So I would imagine if you were an advanced being, millions of years advanced of Earth, and then all of a sudden you get this signature that purpose-built nuclear bombs are being dropped on cities.
02:09:34.000This is not like some sort of a crazy reaction that happened naturally.
02:09:38.000These crazy monkeys got together and they made a bomb.
02:09:42.000And then they dropped it out of an airplane.
02:11:54.000I'm the flight lead, and we're flying, and I'm watching my map, and there's bandits trying to shoot me down, and I'm trying to avoid going into the box, because that's a no-no.
02:12:04.000You're not allowed to fly into the box.
02:12:25.000And our squadron weapons officer, who back then you had to type in the coordinates manually and they would draw lines on your display where you were navigating.
02:12:33.000But it was some person typed the coordinate in.
02:12:36.000He typed the wrong coordinates in my...
02:15:10.000There's restricted areas in a lot of places just because they're doing military stuff, but it's not like there's restricted areas and then there's the restricted areas.
02:15:20.000And the only ones I know of, that's the only one I know of is in Nevada.
02:15:24.000The other ones are all kind of—they turn them—while you're doing military training, they're on, and then if there's nobody flying, they turn them off because the airliners want to save gas and fly through them.
02:15:33.000So the airliners are constantly pushing the military to open up this space to let them fly through just to save gas.
02:17:56.000I was pictures of Earth and stories from being an astronaut.
02:18:00.000But other guys, like I got a Navy SEAL buddy, a guy named Clint Emerson, he's got a – it's a hassle because he's talking about stuff that does need to be vetted.
02:18:12.000So they do have a process for making sure you're not releasing classified stuff.
02:18:16.000Yeah, Jack Carr, the novelist, who's a friend of mine who's been on the podcast before, Navy SEAL, who's writing these books, these intense books about a Navy SEAL and all these adventures and different things.
02:21:35.000I would imagine it would be a giant problem.
02:21:37.000We do everything we can to not contaminate Mars, and it's called planetary defense.
02:21:42.000Well, we know there's no atmosphere on the moon, and Mars is a mess too, but it is possible that there's some sort of biological life in the crudest form on Mars, right?
02:21:59.000A thousand years from now, some astronauts go there and they would find life, but it came from this biology.
02:22:04.000Yeah, so that's why you don't want that to happen.
02:22:06.000I think there was one of the moon missions in the 60s, like a surveyor, where the Apollo 12 landed and they got some parts that had been there for a couple years and they brought it back and they still found bacteria, if I remember right.
02:22:21.000But there has been cases where you found bacteria that lived a long time in space where you'd think the vacuum and the sun would have just destroyed it, but it was still viable, I guess.
02:22:30.000Well, there's some life forms like tardigrades, right?
02:24:03.000You've got to irradiate satellites and everybody's wearing their PPE just to make sure you don't get accidentally some Joe Rogan DNA going to Mars.
02:24:13.000Yeah, well that's one of the theories about how life got here in the first place is panspermia.
02:36:14.000It's just a million grams of vitamin B. Yeah.
02:36:18.000Did you have strategies in terms of when you're traveling a lot, when you land, when you go to a place to try to get your body back on cycle?
02:36:27.000So melatonin was the one thing that changes your cycle.
02:38:58.000I would always take it on my first night in Europe or in Russia because I was going to work the next day and I had to get a night of sleep.
02:42:23.000I think people have a misconception of what's happening in orbit then, because I think people think of orbit as being there's no gravity up there.
02:44:32.000So when you're preparing for something like your mission when you stayed up there for 200 days, how much time in advance do you know about this?
02:48:12.000Anything that would get your forearm strength.
02:48:14.000Cause that's the, that's the hardest thing to do is you're constantly squeezing and letting go.
02:48:18.000Wow, so, but is this like a, did they have a structured protocol to get you prepared for something like this?
02:48:24.000Yeah, they have, we call them ACERS, Astronaut Strength and Conditioning.
02:48:28.000They're basically former like NCAA football strength and conditioning guys that would come in and, or gals, and help us You'd go to the gym, dude, tell me what to do, and they would just be like, all right, burpees, all right, go run this, we're squatting today,
02:49:06.000You know, one of the coolest things about that, you feel like you're falling, but you were asking about sleep, and so dreaming, when I was in space, I would dream about being in space.
02:49:19.000Like, I remember in The Empire Strikes Back, when there's the asteroids, and there's like that scene, the worm comes out of the asteroid and stuff.