On this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, I sit down with one of the greatest rappers of all time, Mr. Prince. We talk about how he got started in the game, his early days in the music industry, and what it takes to be a rapper in the 80s and 90s. He also shares his story of how he became a rapper, and how he built one of rap s most iconic groups, The Ghetto Boyz. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed getting to know him, and I hope it inspires you to get in touch with your inner child and tell them that they are not alone in their journey in life, and that they have a voice in the world. Thank you for listening and supporting the show! -Joe Rogan and the Podcast is a production of Native Creative Podcasts. Native Creative is a multi-platform platform that focuses on the intersection of music, culture, and social justice through hip-hop. . This episode was produced by Native Creative, produced, edited, and produced in partnership with Native Creative and Native Creative. We are a proud member of the Native Creative Collective. , and are dedicated to the culture, community, and black culture. In this episode, we discuss the importance of black culture and black identity in the 21st century, and the power of Black culture in the hip hop industry, as a means to create a safe space for Black culture and a place for Black people to connect and connect with each other through music and blackness in a meaningful way. we can all be a part of the culture that is black, black culture, black and brownness, blackness, and a sense of humor, and so we can be a better version of the black culture in a more inclusive world, and more of that culture, we all can be more inclusive and inclusive, and we all have a better understanding of each other in the culture and more. - Thank you to our host, , for making this episode we are so grateful for the opportunity to connect with and support one another in this podcast, and have a more authentic conversation about Black culture. Thank you so much more than just one another day in Black culture, more opportunities to connect, we can have a chance to connect in the real world, more of what matters more of a day to connect more of our collective experience, we are all of us are more than that, we get it.
00:00:39.000He's a good man, and the stuff that he does on the side, you know, outside of boxing, and the stuff that he does with the Innocence Project is really amazing.
00:00:48.000Yeah, yeah, he's an awesome friend to have as well.
00:00:52.000Yeah, so we got a lot of shit here, man.
00:00:55.000We got your loyalty brand, you've got champagne, you've got wine, you've got, what is this?
00:01:42.000I actually had got rid of the other set of ghetto boys because they felt like I was too deep and they couldn't relate to some of the subject matters I wanted them to write to.
00:03:25.000And that was part of what we done together.
00:03:27.000We brainstormed together because we wanted to make sure we tapped into, you know, everybody that didn't have a voice.
00:03:34.000You know, a lot of the things, such as the Mind Plan Trick song, for example, you know, it was a lot of individuals that was, like, numb to that lifestyle of what would actually take place of inner-city kids.
00:03:48.000And we were able to make that, like, real visual.
00:03:54.000It's fascinating to me all the different things that you've touched, that you've gotten into.
00:04:00.000First of all, how did you get started in the rap game?
00:04:03.000What got you into being a part of that?
00:04:07.000I got into rap game because of my brother.
00:04:12.000So I actually named the company after him.
00:04:15.000And I was encouraged to do it because You know, he was a rapper at the time, you know, I was hustling a different way and I didn't want my brother in the streets.
00:04:26.000So I'm like, you go in the studio, I'm going to support you in the rap world.
00:04:30.000But ultimately, my brother decided not to stay in the rap game and we got him like 23 years.
00:05:00.000It's one of the rare genres of music that has so many people that are both in and out of that world.
00:05:09.000Yeah, a lot of people fake it to a certain extent, you know, because they tell stories of what they observed or what they saw.
00:05:17.000You know, a lot of individuals hadn't actually lived the rap that they rap about, but they witnessed it from some perspective, so it's real.
00:05:29.000But it's maybe the only music genre that is so connected to crime.
00:05:36.000If you really stop and think about it, crime and poverty is such an immense part of the rap world.
00:05:43.000Oh yeah, no, it's definitely a real reflection of what goes on in the world we come from.
00:05:50.000Yeah, that's one of the most interesting things about it, like when rap music became really popular.
00:05:56.000One of the things I was saying to Willie, When Willie D was here, I was like, you're a pioneer of a new art form that came about.
00:06:07.000When the Ghetto Boys came about, which was late 80s, is that what it was?
00:06:48.000And one of the things we've done, like, on the East Coast and the West Coast, you know, they had access to a lot of power where the major record labels were concerned.
00:06:58.000Down in Houston, in the South period, we had no access to any of that kind of power.
00:07:04.000So we was left to, like, figure it out and do it on our own.
00:07:08.000So when I laid the foundation in Houston, I basically learned from trial and error.
00:07:15.000And I had to figure it out, and I did, and we laid a foundation that's relevant today.
00:07:22.000So you got into it to help your brother, and then how did you get a part of the Ghetto Boys?
00:11:08.000I think they had a run-in, somewhat of a confrontation in the club, but they didn't really know each other other than, I think, drop-kicking Bushwick.
00:14:08.000I've done it as a business because I had relationships with all the athletes, with all the D-boys, you know, all the hustlers in the streets.
00:16:34.000This had to be 99 or 2000. So, you know, I knew a friend that knew Mike, and Mike, you know, accepted the invitation because he was familiar with my movement where Rapalite was concerned.
00:16:49.000And I flew out there with my focus on Mike, and man, I walked into him sparring, and I was like...
00:16:57.000You know, I was on cloud nine because I had never saw him, you know, in person sparring.
00:17:47.000So afterwards, you know, me and Mike go to his house to have the meeting that I came to have because my objective was to become his manager, to be on his management team.
00:19:09.000Yeah, well, I don't know about a break, but I know we eventually had to get a specialist to wrap his hands because, you know, he would hurt them a lot.
00:20:38.000If you don't have that work ethic, you never keep it going.
00:20:41.000You always fall short of your expectations, and without naming any names, we all know those champions that could have been great, but they got fat in between camps, and they just never trained as hard as they should have.
00:24:25.000The boxing business is a crazy business because boxers are crazy.
00:24:30.000There's no way, you know, you got all the dedication and all the, you know, hard work and intelligence and Ring IQ, but you also have crazy people.
00:24:42.000Yeah, but it's no worse or no crazier than the music industry.
00:25:50.000And I heard him speak about the health benefits where wine was concerned one day.
00:25:56.000And you know, he was talking about how wine is good for your heart, your blood, antioxidants, you know, all of these things.
00:26:05.000And I became, you know, kind of sold where wine was concerned.
00:26:09.000And during my winding down time, I started sipping a little bit.
00:26:14.000And ultimately, that led me to Napa Valley, where I was able to go to quite a few vineyards.
00:26:20.000I was actually negotiating on purchasing a vineyard, so I got an opportunity to view things from the business perspective, and that kind of led me to where I'm at today.
00:26:32.000That's a serious bower move when you own a vineyard.
00:28:14.000So, when you met Floyd, he was the 130-pound champion, and did you just immediately start working with him?
00:28:23.000Yeah, but it was a process, and it was...
00:28:27.000It wasn't easy because I came into a situation where his father and his uncle was his manager and I wasn't embraced with love because they kind of felt like I was...
00:28:45.000He had a $12 million contract on the table at the time I came in that everybody wanted him to sign.
00:28:54.000Floyd called the contract a slave contract before I came, but they blamed me for him calling the contract a slave contract.
00:29:04.000What was the provisions in the contract that he didn't like?
00:29:07.000Well, he just thought 12 million wasn't enough.
00:29:12.000And, you know, ultimately I had to go in and do some damage control.
00:29:18.000And one of the things that I told him when, you know, when I met him, I said, if I can't make this better, I don't want to eat off of your 12 million that had already been offered to you.
00:29:29.000So I had an opportunity to have a meeting with Seth Abraham, you know, at the time was the president of HBO. And I pretty much just asked the guy, you know, how could we get around this 12 million dollar contract?
00:29:45.000How can I make this a bigger contract?
00:29:49.000At the time he told me about the fighter named Diego Corrales.
00:29:54.000He was like, you know, if you all would be willing to fight Diego Corrales, Then this could jump up to 35 million or so if y'all was able to beat Diego Corrales.
00:33:14.000One of the things that's going on right now with Floyd is he's going to fight Logan Paul, who's this YouTube star, which is...
00:33:20.000It's so crazy that a dude who is a YouTube star, who's a good athlete, he's had a couple of boxing matches and was a very good wrestler, he's gonna box the greatest boxer ever.
00:33:59.000And a lot of people say, oh, he waited until Manny Pacquiao was past his prime before he fought him.
00:34:04.000Well, that's a smart thing to do if you want to stay 50-0.
00:34:08.000I mean, if you look at his career, he fought all the great fighters, but he did it on his terms when he fought Canelo, made Canelo get down 152, I think it was.
00:34:19.000Every move he does is perfectly calculated.
00:35:48.000Yeah, I'll tell you what was really strange about that.
00:35:51.000So a couple years after that, on the same day, Diego got killed almost around the same time, you know, right on the next street behind my Las Vegas place.
00:36:03.000And I was called and, you know, his wife was like, somebody say Diego had a motorcycle accident.
00:36:11.000So I rushed on Fort Apache and there Diego was on the same exact day of his biggest victory a couple years later the same day.
00:36:23.000That was a bummer when he died because there's a lot of those dudes like that that are just wild dudes and you can't stop them from being wild.
00:36:32.000To have a career like he had, to make the kind of money that he had, and still be just going crazy on motorcycles.
00:36:39.000What makes them great, sometimes does them in, is that heart, that courage, and the willingness to face fear.
00:37:27.000I came real close to getting my motorcycle license, but when I was going through the whole thing and going through classes, and three people I know, one person saw someone get hit, and two people I know crashed.
00:37:42.000One crashed and really fucked up his shoulder.
00:39:04.000The Diego Corrales fight with Floyd was a defining fight.
00:39:09.000But one of the things that when people point to Floyd, I say, look at the Maidana fights.
00:39:14.000Because Maidana gave him some difficulty in the first fight.
00:39:18.000But in the second fight, Floyd boxed his ears off.
00:39:21.000Floyd put on a clinic in that second fight, and that shows you a guy who went back, looked at the fight, didn't enjoy his performance, was too close, and decided, I'm going to fuck this dude up in this rematch, and I'm going to do everything right this time.
00:39:35.000If you observe Floyd real closely, Normally, the second half of all his fights, he cracked a code where a fighter is concerned.
00:39:44.000No matter how close it was, the second half, he cracks that code.
00:39:48.000And going into that second fight, he's going to figure it out.
00:45:09.000I love seeing when people achieve a level of proficiency that's so powerful that a world champion is standing in front of them and going, fuck, man, I got a lot to learn.
00:51:24.000When you got a guy as good as Terrence Crawford, who legitimately could be one of the all-time greats, might be already, one of the rare, like, a switch hitter who's just as good orthodox as he is at Southpaw,
00:51:41.000figures everybody out, beats everybody, and then he talks crazy shit about losing money promoting his fights, and What the fuck are you talking about?
00:51:53.000Maybe you're doing a shitty job promoting him.
00:51:55.000You got in your roster one of the greatest of all time.
01:00:26.000Like, I tell you what, I think he missed the opportunity.
01:00:30.000He should have fought Fury in December because I think he may have, would have had an edge conditioning-wise because Fury, you know, wasn't in that gym properly.
01:01:27.000But when I saw him, first of all, you get rid of Breland.
01:01:30.000Mark Breland is, you know, Olympic gold medalist, former world champion, just not just a great fighter, but a great human being, a great coach.
01:02:10.000And then it was the gloves aren't on properly so that, you know, the knuckles were at the bottom part of the glove and the top part was just flopping around.
01:03:31.000It's just sad when a great champion like Deontay Wilder, who literally knocked out every single opponent other than Tyson Fury and Stavern in the first fight.
01:04:50.000But sometimes, and I'm sure you see this as a manager, Sometimes when a person has extraordinary gifts, like the extraordinary gift of power, they don't develop the technical aspects of boxing the way a person who maybe has soft hands does.
01:06:27.000Kind of go downhill to a certain extent.
01:06:29.000Well, I think it was that, but I really think a big factor was the beating John Ruiz at heavyweight and then draining his body down to 175 to go back and fight Tarver again.
01:06:40.000To fight Tarver and then fight Tarver again.
01:06:41.000It's just, it was too much weight loss.
01:06:45.000You know, now that's a whole nother story because I had a meeting with Roy Jones and Mike Tyson at my ranch for them to fight one another before that fight.
01:07:20.000And, you know, Roy decided, I think, what's his name, Tarver was talking so much shit, man, until Roy was like, let me go take care of him one more time.
01:07:33.000And I was like, Roy, man, let's get that bird, you know, in the hand versus that one in the bush.
01:07:41.000Yeah, he went to take care of Tarver, man.
01:07:43.000That's the only reason that fight didn't come to fruition.
01:09:52.000Well, he was just so smart at being safe and roughing you up and knowing how to be aggressive on the inside and clinching you and frustrating guys.
01:11:42.000Now as a person that is, you're so much, you're so invested in discipline and respect and honor, like, it's kind of a perfect sport for you to be involved in, in a lot of ways.
01:11:56.000Because it represents so many of those different aspects of human character.
01:12:31.000But when Muhammad Ali had a rematch with Leon Spinks, after Muhammad Ali lost his title to Leon Spinks and then had a rematch, my parents made us all watch it.
01:12:42.000Because Muhammad Ali represented way more than boxing to the culture, just to human beings at the time.
01:12:48.000He represented this guy who stood up against the Vietnam War, who stood up for people in a way that he risked his career.
01:12:57.000He got shut down for three years in his prime after arguably one of his most devastating performances.
01:13:04.000He fought Cleveland Big Cat Williams, lights him up like a Christmas tree, and then they make him take three years off.
01:13:11.000Just because he wouldn't fight in the Vietnam War.
01:14:17.000Well, I mean, when he was alive, he was the most famous human being on earth.
01:14:23.000You know, I guess hearing about that was one thing, but to actually be sitting there and witnessing, you know, all these different people from around the world, you know, what he meant to them, I was like, wow, this was a special guy.
01:15:27.000He was Ali's sparring partner for a long time.
01:15:30.000And I think there was probably a bridge he had across to consider himself the real champion.
01:15:38.000I think it ruined his career because I think Larry Holmes never really got the respect that he deserved because of that because people resented him for doing that and then also just living in the shadow of Ali.
01:15:51.000Yeah, you can only imagine how many whoopings he took from Ali coming up.
01:15:58.000That thing went deeper than what was in front of the TV. The problem is we didn't see that.
01:16:02.000All we saw was this beloved champion, who was this cultural icon, get the shit beat out of him by this young, up-and-coming champion.
01:18:03.000Well, that was one of the things that I talked to Roy about.
01:18:05.000That made Roy really second-guess and think about his career because when Gerald McClellan was coming up, he was thought to be the big rival for Roy Jones Jr. Everybody thought that's going to be the big fight.
01:18:19.000When those two guys get together, that is going to be...
01:18:22.000Our version in that weight class, at that time, of what we want to see with Terrence Crawford and Earl Spence.
01:23:49.000No, those guys, the boxers are kind of out of line when they decide to.
01:23:55.000Going there and dealing with that UFC business.
01:23:57.000It takes a long time to learn, but I think if they approach it correctly, if they're young while they get involved and they approach it correctly.
01:24:06.000See, I think one of the more interesting entrants into mixed martial arts is Claressa Shields.
01:24:22.000Olympic gold medalist, world champion boxer, tremendous hand speed, technical boxing skills off the charts.
01:24:31.000Then she goes and trains with Jon Jones.
01:24:34.000Jon Jones, who's the greatest of all time.
01:24:37.000So she's training with the greatest of all time, and she's learning the wrestling, the takedown defense, and she's going to have such an advantage with her hands.
01:24:49.000And she's doing the right moves, in my opinion.
01:24:51.000She signed with the PFL, which is a smaller organization, and she'll rack up some wins over there, hopefully, and then make her way eventually to the UFC. And I think that'd be very interesting.
01:25:02.000Yeah, I spoke with her and she, you know, was voicing to me her frustration when boxing was concerned and that she was really thinking about going over there.
01:25:13.000Yeah, I talked to her a few years ago on Instagram and I said, are you interested in, are you going to fight MMA? Because I know you're interested in this because I know she did some sparring with Cyborg.
01:26:00.000When she was training James Kirkland and she was having him do all kinds of crazy shit, she cracked that whip and James Kirkland was at his best when he was under the tutelage of Ann Wolfe.
01:30:26.000When you wrote this book, Was this a book not just to sort of relay the lessons that you've learned in your life, but to lay them out for young people and for people that need this information?
01:30:44.000I guess it came from an energy and a situation of me, first of all, what happened where I was concerned.
01:30:54.000You know, my wins, my losses, everything happened in between and I think it just like covered ground and areas that I I wasn't really thinking it would cover, but just being real.
01:33:46.000Well, one of the things that's so valuable about a book like this is for young people, they get to read all the things you went through, and it gives them a structure.
01:33:57.000It gives them an idea of what's possible for themselves.
01:33:59.000When they see someone they admire, someone that's become extremely successful, and they read how it all went down, and then they apply that in their own life, they think about their own life, it's very valuable.
01:34:10.000A book like this can be fuel to a young person that's thinking about, how do I become successful?
01:34:17.000How do I become someone like the people that I admire?
01:34:20.000Well, you read a book by the people that you admire, and you try to figure out what they did.
01:34:25.000And you read what they were thinking, what it was like for them, and you absorb that and take it in yourself.
01:34:41.000And that's why, you know, on my journey now, you know, I really try to express and explain to them that readers are leaders.
01:34:49.000You know, if you want to become a leader, it's important to read because it was reading that Really caused my career to go to a whole nother level when I started reading, you know, because I was kind of, where I come from,
01:35:06.000It was like a boring thing to do, but it's a lot of power in reading.
01:35:11.000And, you know, I wanted to be an example to people like myself, you know, that Didn't believe in reading or just if you're interested in how to turn nothing into something.
01:35:25.000If you're interested in the structure and the different rules of how to do things, then pick up a book.
01:35:48.000And what it done for me, that particular book, I had a lot of gifts and a lot of powers that I was unaware of.
01:35:56.000And I also wasn't aware of the importance of structure, organizing and goals, writing the goals down and different things like that.
01:36:07.000So when I read that book, it I tell everybody it was like a lot of biblical readers are familiar with Moses when he went up to get the Ten Commandments and he came back with his eyes on fire and like,
01:36:23.000you know what I mean, he had saw something special.
01:36:26.000When I read that book, That's what happened to me.
01:36:29.000A lot of my brain cells that was closed was open because I understood that I didn't really necessarily need a degree.
01:36:39.000I was in bondage for a long time thinking because I didn't have a degree, I couldn't accomplish and become certain things.
01:37:00.000I didn't have that, but I figured out how to do it.
01:37:02.000So you could figure out how to do it the same way, you know, I did without, you know, of course, we definitely push people toward, you know, education because, you know, I understand real clearly a lack of education and bad habits is what,
01:37:20.000you know, can cause you to stay in bondage.
01:37:23.000It's beautiful though that you promote.
01:38:31.000Because I had been using him for years as the guy up front.
01:38:35.000He had the degree and I felt like You know, he was more qualified to do these things than I was.
01:38:42.000So I stayed in the background, worked in the studio with the artists, and just made sure product was, you know, being done.
01:38:50.000But after reading that and educating myself that you are fully qualified, more than qualified, to do this, I had a meeting with him and tried to Convince him to take a back seat and let me run the situation, which led to me having to buy him out because he didn't feel I was qualified.
01:39:10.000So, against all odds, I bought him out.
01:39:13.000And the banker, the distributor, everybody was trying to discourage me, and everybody was saying, I'm going to be out of business in six months if I do that.
01:39:23.000So I wasn't trying to hear any of that.
01:40:08.000It was important for me to learn about the universal laws because there was a time in my life I was working against the universal laws.
01:40:15.000And to understand how the universal laws operate, you know, has caused me to be able to live a much smoother, fruitful life, you know, without going against them.
01:40:27.000What specifically about the universal laws?
01:40:29.000Okay, other words, like if you have an understanding, let's just say on the law of gravity, If you really understand the law of gravity and you understand that if I get on top of this building and jump down and I'm not gonna float, then,
01:40:45.000you know, you don't have to float, right?
01:40:49.000And if you understand the law of attraction, You understand the power of your mind that you can dream of these things and execute a work ethic and different things behind the law of attraction and you focus on that, then you can bring that to fruition.
01:41:06.000So, you know, those are powerful laws that meant a difference to me.
01:41:12.000And when you, do you have a book list of like these books that have inspired you that you recommend to other people?
01:41:19.000Do you have that listed anywhere where anybody can access that?
01:41:28.000But I mean, for people listening to this conversation right now that want to be as successful as you, there's probably like a lot of people like, come on, Jay.
01:44:56.000You know, with ex-convicts, you know, and it's something I put together, you know, and it was a, I used a formula, you know, I told these guys, okay, you got to get that world up, and I wanted completely giving up if you're coming over here to deal with me, because I understood that if you give up 99% and hold on to one,
01:45:15.000they'll take that one and destroy the 99%.
01:45:18.000So with that understanding, we was able to build a number one record label for years, but it caused problems because they felt like I was money laundering.
01:45:30.000It felt like a lot of things was taking place where my success was concerned, and a lot of animosity built up, which ultimately led to DEA coming involved in We can talk about that part,
01:45:48.000but you asked me about the Suge and Irv Gotti situation.
01:45:51.000What we had done is had a meeting in LA, and we were considering starting a Black-owned distribution because we felt like it was a need for artists to come after us and we was trying to make a better way and a smoother way for them because even back then I saw Where change was trying to take place in the industry and they wasn't going to allow...
01:47:53.000So, you know, this was a real life situation that people may hear and think, you know, this is not true.
01:48:01.000But here's confirmation of how true it was.
01:48:04.000In 1999, you know, I reported this with the help of Congresswoman Maxine Waters, Janet Reno, because they intervened on my behalf because they saw what was happening.
01:48:18.000And, of course, they had a, what you call it, a Congressional hearing on me.
01:48:27.000A congressional hearing where the DEA and, you know, it reminded me of the time when Clarence Thomas was being, a hearing was taking place over his harassment or something.
01:48:42.000And all of those people Democrat and Republicans was around, you know what I mean?
01:48:49.000So this is the conversation they was having concerning me, James Prince.
01:48:53.000And I'm watching this, you know, on...
01:48:57.000On video, I'm not invited, but I'm watching them have this conversation about me, about the Congressional hearing, and I'm just like, wow, you know, these people want me pretty bad.
01:49:09.000But long story short, you know, they were able to speak up on my behalf, and, you know, which ultimately, oh, there's so many connections to this, because even Al Gore, you know, came in a portrait where they tried to set me up at my church.
01:49:26.000Al Gore came to visit my church, you know, which when you're running for president, you visit a lot of black churches and stuff like that.
01:49:35.000And my pastor wanted me to meet Al Gore that day.
01:49:40.000So when I pull up, you know, I was married at the time, you know, I told my wife, I say, all these people ain't here with the president because I was watching body language.
01:49:52.000You know, I saw black glasses kind of look in my direction.
01:49:56.000And she said, oh, come on, boy, you being leery, you know, them people not thinking about you or whatever.
01:52:17.000I had some guys behind me follow me because They had been sending me threats, so I'm not stupid, so I understood that, you know, I need to cover myself until I make it home.
01:52:29.000And when I pulled over, you know, the officer got out, and he said, why you didn't pull over like I told you?
01:52:37.000I said, sir, I didn't want you to think I was trying to hurt you in that dark, and I didn't want to think you was trying to hurt me.
01:54:51.000So, you know, I went home and that really caused me to, you know, want to protect myself and want to document why I wanted to protect myself.
01:55:21.000What they were doing, and it's an investigative report, people that worked for me, you know, I had a street team that would promote my records in different clubs at night.
01:55:32.000What they had done Was jumped on a couple guys.
01:55:37.000They took them down to the station, stripped them naked, you know, jumped on them, took their jewelry, you know, all kinds of stuff, and sent messages.
01:55:46.000Let him know, you know, we're going to do this.
01:55:50.000Which eventually, when I made my report, They end up finding the jewelry and different things that I reported that, you know, I told them, these guys, you got rogue cops.
01:56:05.000You got two rogue cops that's doing this and doing that, and I'm in fear of my life.
01:56:10.000You know, I just want it to be known because if a situation take place and I come out on top, then I don't want nobody to be mad at me, right?
01:57:57.000And before I know it, I was headed to the police station and they charged me with a pill called ecstasy.
01:58:05.000And I immediately got out of jail, took a test, a drug test, took a lie detector test just to prove You know, I had nothing to do with any of that.
01:58:16.000So they tried to get me to cop out for probation and cop out.
01:58:51.000How did you stay calm during that time?
01:58:53.000Because that's got to be incredibly stressful.
01:58:55.000Yeah, it was, you know, because like in the hood where I'm from, You have to survive the guys that's in the hood because they're trying to get you.
01:59:09.000You know, wherever success is concerned, they're trying to get you.
01:59:13.000And the police that's supposed to be protecting me, the ones I'm paying all these taxes to, had become an enemy where they was trying to get me.
02:00:25.000So the DEA was trying to pin a case on you about, they figured there must be some money laundering going on because you're from the hood, because you're incredibly successful.
02:00:45.000They didn't think that you had the kind of discipline that you had.
02:00:48.000And they probably felt you kept one foot in the streets.
02:00:51.000You kept one foot in either the drug game or some kind of crime they can catch you on.
02:00:58.000So here's what they ultimately done, though.
02:01:01.000And, you know, of course, you know, I had ex-convicts and different things working for me.
02:01:08.000So what they actually done was they got a female that was spending money with one of my groups, no, with two or three of my groups, bringing them to New Orleans and different things to do different concerts.
02:01:23.000And this particular female ended up dating one of my guys that was working for me.
02:01:39.000And which ultimately led to her setting up a situation where she told him, oh, I have these two college guys that's coming in town and they have a hundred and some thousand dollars.
02:01:54.000Now, all you have to do, I'm going to take them to Papa's.
02:02:00.000And all you have to do is get the key off of the tire of my vehicle and go to the room and get the bag and go free.
02:02:10.000It's a hundred and some thousand dollars in it.
02:02:12.000So my guy that worked for me bid on that.
02:02:16.000But he bid on it in a manner where he sent someone else because he wasn't really hip to conspiracy, right?
02:02:23.000So he sent somebody else, a guy that's like a nobody.
02:03:13.000You know, but they was able to penetrate The system by getting him and another guy because they bit on that situation and when they got that bag, it was drugs in that bag.
02:03:27.000They put kilos in that bag, even though she told them it was going to be money.
02:03:33.000The feds have a way of doing what they want to do, and it was able to stick.
02:03:38.000So they basically take kilos from when they bust someone for drugs, they take that shit, and then they use it as evidence, and then they use it to set somebody up.
02:03:46.000Yeah, it should be illegal the way they done that.
02:03:58.000That participated in that, Chad Scott, if you look up what happened to him a year or two ago, he got arrested for doing these very same things, you know, a year or two ago.
02:04:09.000So he's been doing it for a long fucking time.
02:04:14.000Think about the lives that he destroyed.
02:04:17.000You know, think about the people that is doing years, you know, almost life sentences because Well, it's the darkest part of our criminal justice system.
02:04:29.000It's one of the things that I've talked to Josh Dubin about and Jason Flom when he was on here.
02:04:37.000This long history of putting people in jail for non-violent drug offenses and these people are still in jail.
02:04:47.000There's people in Colorado right now that are in jail for marijuana possession and they can look out their prison window and see legal marijuana grow operations While they're in jail for marijuana possession and marijuana sales.
02:06:01.000Well, it's the darkest shit of all time.
02:06:03.000It's like there's no concern whatsoever for where these people came from, the situations that they faced, the obstacles that they overcame, and then the fact that they get set up.
02:06:23.000And in the future, history, when they look back at us today, these times and these things, whatever is honestly discussed and told, it'll be a shame.
02:07:13.000Because one of the things that I describe all the time when it comes to the police is that you have to recognize that Cops are playing a game.
02:07:25.000And when you're playing a game, the game is arrest a person, make the charge stick.
02:07:30.000It doesn't seem like a game because there's laws and there's perpetrators and there's violent offenders.
02:07:39.000There's all these different things that they like to call people and different scenarios.
02:07:43.000But at the end of the day, if you're an officer...
02:09:35.000And it exacerbates and encourages this feeling of helplessness that doesn't give you an option to get out.
02:09:43.000And even if it's not the grand plan, I'd like to look at conspiracy theories or any conspiracy on a step-by-step basis, and I think a lot of it is just the system itself, the way it's set up.
02:09:57.000I don't think these cops are involved in this grand conspiracy, but in a way they are, because what they're doing, whether they know it or not, is encouraging this feeling of helplessness, because they know that these cops aren't looking out for everybody.
02:11:09.000When you see the Floyd Mayweather, excuse me, George Floyd death, when that cop is leaning on his neck and the other cops are just standing around, that's the code of silence.
02:11:30.000But that is, they're all in it together.
02:11:33.000And a lot of times they feel like they have to stand together because the department doesn't defend them.
02:11:38.000Internal Affairs is always looking to bring them down too.
02:11:41.000And their job is to go out and get people.
02:11:43.000And they get together, and they tell themselves, the only people you can trust are other cops, and we've got to stick together, and these are the rules.
02:11:52.000If you get involved in that, you realize early on, like, your ideas of, like, law enforcement being this beautiful thing that's out there to protect communities, and like, no, no, no, it's a game.
02:12:30.000Well, for example, like this DEA, ex-DEA agent Schumacher, you know, eight people that has been killed by his hands.
02:12:40.000You know, when we interviewed his lieutenant who had retired, He said he always questioned all of those murders that this guy had done because he would lie.
02:12:52.000You know, I had an investigator that actually interviewed this guy.
02:12:56.000So I brought to the table concrete evidence such as that, you know.
02:13:02.000When I was there talking to the head guys who wanted to know why I was accusing the DEA agent as being a hitman, I'm like, well, give me a better name for him.
02:13:14.000Because it was totally unnatural for any officer to use his gun that many times.
02:13:31.000Well, eventually what happened was, after I came back from Washington, D.C., somebody was wise enough to, well, what they done was they went and searched his desk in his locker,
02:13:47.000him and Chad Scott, and they found evidence.
02:13:51.000That I had told them about, such as a wrap-a-lot piece, the jury, and different things like that.
02:14:01.000They reprimanded them and put them on a desk jar.
02:14:05.000And they decided that they didn't want to see he and I run into one another on the streets after I had documented that I was in fear of my life.
02:14:18.000So that would have looked worse for them than anything.
02:14:49.000So he just, they moved him to Louisiana and he just picked up the ball and started doing everything he was doing in Houston and in Texas in Louisiana and they caught up with him.
02:15:00.000There's a guy named Michael Dowd who's been on my podcast before.
02:15:04.000He is one of the people that was featured in a documentary about a corrupt police precinct called The 75 in New York City.
02:16:46.000I'm in a peaceful, more peaceful spot today, but in the midst of that journey and that war, you know, it's like every day you feel like in your mind you're legal and you're doing what's right, you're a law-abiding citizen.
02:17:03.000But the reality was, you damn if you do, if you do it this way, you damn if you...
02:17:26.000If I campaign in darkness, I'm going to get elected in darkness.
02:17:33.000What's very admirable, it really is, because when you have this system, they're unsupportive of people escaping the life.
02:17:48.000They want to keep you connected in some way, shape, or form to crime.
02:17:53.000They never want to think, well, here's this inspirational person that not only has escaped, but maybe will offer a beacon of light to other young dudes who are in that life who want to escape.
02:18:06.000A man who has become extremely successful.
02:19:03.000That high powers recognize thinkers, people that know how to think, you know, like those that came before me, you know, Martin Luther King, all the people they destroyed because they saw a movement taking place that they didn't like.
02:19:19.000I know I had a movement taking place, and it's evidence that I had that movement taking place today, you know, because the South are who they are because of the foundation I laid.
02:19:30.000And, you know, I had artists, I mean, CEOs like Cash Money, like Master P, Tony Draper, you know, Swisher House, Jay-Z, all of them watching my movement at Ground Zero, which inspired them.
02:19:46.000To, you know, to come to fruition with their movements.
02:19:50.000So I think these guys saw that being bred in them.
02:19:57.000The people in power know when they see the truth at work.
02:20:01.000And a lot of times they assign people to destroy that before it come to fruition.
02:20:08.000And I think that was their assignment where I was concerned.
02:20:12.000It is interesting, though, that over the test of time, your true character has emerged and that people understand who you actually are and that the young cops, they actually like you now.
02:21:05.000That was one of my relief podiums where, you know, during the Ghetto Boys, I would get on the intros and put the spotlight on all the things they was doing to us because I knew it was happening all around the world and ghettos all around the world.
02:21:22.000And the people loved me for, you know, expressing the pain that we all was feeling and what they were doing to all of us where the laws were being broken.
02:21:33.000And to this day, you know, they love me for that.
02:21:37.000Well, I think your message is very important.
02:21:40.000I think your message of discipline and of character and of how you've succeeded and how you've succeeded by following those principles is so important for people.
02:21:53.000And I think it's one of the most important things for someone who's stuck In poverty, wanting to figure out a way to be a person like you, to see that you've laid out these ground rules that you follow,
02:22:08.000to see that you've laid out these steps that you've taken, and to see that you've done it all in a book.
02:22:15.000And encourage people to not just read this book, but read the books that inspired you to get to the position that you're at.
02:22:43.000That's my goal to leave that with them.
02:22:46.000I know when I'm, you know, when I cross over in heaven, you know, this book will still be here.
02:22:53.000The blueprint, you know, the blueprint of, you know, my business life and my personal life on how I was able to, you know, conquer, you know, the odds and different things that were set up against me.
02:25:56.000But not giving us a chance and, you know, playing New York music and acting as if we not in part, you know, our people not special, you know, we can't have that.
02:26:08.000Well, the Ghetto Boys sound was so aggressive and so good, and it put Fifth Ward on the map.
02:26:13.000I mean, people started talking about Fifth Ward after the Ghetto Boys came out.
02:26:18.000And when, like, we can't be stopped and do it like a G.O. Like, there were songs that were undeniable.
02:26:36.000Being undeniable at the end of the day, and I think that's also what's happened with you, with the young cops that appreciate and respect you now.
02:28:04.000I'm very proud of where the South stand today.
02:28:08.000You know, one of my favorite quotes a lot of times is, You kind of get under the skin of my East Coast and West Coast homies, but I tell them the East Coast is a piece of bread, the West Coast is a piece of bread, and down South we the meat.
02:28:23.000Y'all can't have a sandwich without us.
02:28:36.000You know, it never happened with sports.
02:28:38.000I mean, it did a little bit with sports in some teams, but the big thing with rap music was always East Coast versus West Coast until you guys came around.
02:28:56.000How me and Puffy had a meeting and they wanted me to mediate a meeting where him and Suge was concerned.
02:29:07.000That was after Tupac and all of these people had got killed.
02:29:15.000It was something that I wanted to do, but I couldn't really get, you know, between it because, you know, things just didn't add up properly.
02:29:24.000And I don't believe in stepping in between something when I don't have all the information.
02:30:03.000And I turned it around just to go and have a conversation with Biggie and Puffy to alert them that they were in a place that I didn't feel that they should have been in.
02:30:14.000And you know, I went there and had a conversation with both of them just to kind of put them on notice that, you know, this ain't the place to be right now.
02:30:34.000You know, sometimes, and I know Puffy meant well, and I know Biggie meant well, sometimes a lot of individuals are what I call surface deep, where the streets are concerned, which simply means you understand them to a certain depth.
02:32:40.000The world gets less weird when someone like you has made through all the hoops and ladders and gotten to a point where you can kind of let people know what you've been through.
02:33:11.000Beginning with my community, you know what I mean?
02:33:15.000I'm a person that stayed in contact with where my community is concerned.
02:33:22.000That's why I built the recreation center, the boxing gym, a school, because I never wanted to be one of those people that disowned where I was from.
02:33:33.000And that's what law enforcement was trying to get me to do.
02:33:38.000Have conversations with them guys when they would stop me and pull me over.
02:34:54.000There's no way I'm gonna allow you to change if I can help it.
02:34:57.000That's an anti-human sentiment that a person can't change.
02:35:02.000That's one of the worst things you could say to a person because all of us are inspired by people who do change.
02:35:09.000Yeah, and what's even worse is locking a man up so long where you don't give him an opportunity to change because it's a lot of brothers That evolve behind walls.
02:35:41.000You know, our brother Larry Hoover right now, for example, you know, he's a brother that I know has changed inside, but whether they want to give him the opportunity to, you know, be free and execute,
02:35:56.000you know, the wisdom and the change that has taken place in him and a lot of other political prisoners, you know, I think the system is just, it's crazy that it's so unforgiving.
02:36:55.000The real effort to rehabilitate people is non-existent.
02:36:59.000There's some people that get rehabilitated through prison, whether it's through the negative reinforcement of they never want to be locked up in a cage again, or through other people that they meet inside the jail, or through books they read inside the jail.
02:37:33.000When you're young, hopefully, the foolish shit that you do when you're 10, you're not going to do when you're 20. The dumb shit you do when you're 20, you're not going to do when you're 30. You're going to learn from every step of the way.
02:38:02.000To me, that's the mechanism of the system right now.
02:38:07.000You know, the inmates, a lot of them, are concerned.
02:38:11.000Of course, you know, there are some that, you know, may deserve different things, but this thing where drugs is concerned, this whole nonviolet situation that they got going on is as racist as it gets.
02:40:46.000By the time these people get into any position of power, they're so compromised that they got to kind of follow the steps that are laid out for them.
02:40:55.000No one really ever says, hey, look at this.
02:40:59.000Let's look at this and let's lay it out because this is a terrible, terrible place.
02:41:04.000This is a terrible scenario we have with criminal justice.
02:41:54.000And they have this cynical perspective.
02:41:56.000Instead of having that perspective like, that guy, we should have him talk to other kids.
02:42:03.000We should let everybody know, like, this is possible.
02:42:06.000Everybody who is down on their luck, who's not doing well, who's in a bad situation, you can look to the people that escaped and then profited and then thrived and then became incredibly successful.