In this episode, I chat with Olympic Gold Medalist Jordan Peterson about his career in Mixed Martial Arts and why he decided to make the move to the UFC. We talk about what it's like to be a professional MMA fighter and how it compares to the other sports he grew up watching and growing up in the 80s and 90s. I also talk about how the internet has changed the game in the past and the future of the sport and why it's a great fit for the modern era of athletes. I hope you enjoy this episode and tweet me if you have any thoughts or opinions on anything we talked about in this episode. Timestamps: 1:00 - Jordan Peterson's career in MMA 4:15 - Why he chose MMA over going to the Olympics 6:30 - Why MMA is a different sport than other sports 8:00 - Why it s a better fit for him 11:40 - What it takes to become a UFC fighter 16:00- Why he thinks MMA should be a better sport than wrestling 17:15- What it s like being in the NFL 18:30- Why MMA vs. Wrestling is a good fit for his career 19:30 21:00 Thoughts on the current state of MMA? 22:00 -- Why MMA isn t as good as Wrestling 23:30 -- What is the best sport in the NBA 26:40 -- What's the future in MMA ? 27:10 - What s the best way to make money in the UFC? 28: What s your favorite sport? 29:15 -- What are you looking forward to in MMA and what do you think of MMA right now? 35:00 | What are your favorite part of MMA's biggest challenge? 31:30 | What do you want to see in MMA s biggest advantage? 36:40 | What's your favorite aspect of MMA s greatest competitor? 32:00 // 33:00 Is MMA s role model? 39: What is your favorite thing about MMA s most important to you? 40: Is there a better place to be in MMA & MMA s? 45:00 Can you give me some advice? 47:00 Do you have a question or a question for me or would you like me to send me a question? & so much more! & much more
00:00:31.000When I graduated from college in 2011, University of Nebraska, wrestling was still on the brink of, it was in its infancy of marketing and branding and really making it a professional career.
00:00:43.000So MMA was the new kid on the block and it was growing and expanding and we had a lot of our guys transitioning in.
00:00:50.000Henry Cejudo, Ben Askren, Daniel Cormier.
00:00:55.000I was like, okay, I'm going to wrestle in the Olympics in London 2012, win the gold, and then I'm going to make the transition to MMA. I'll be 25 years old.
00:02:39.000Like, Cornhole is on ESPN more often than wrestling.
00:02:43.000But isn't that just now because there's no crowds and COVID and there's all the weirdness and there's a lot of shit that's on.
00:02:49.000Like if you follow SportsCenter on Instagram, like half the shit they do is like people in their backyard like doing crazy dunks and stuff.
00:02:56.000I think the invention of the internet has definitely changed the game for our sport.
00:03:02.000We are in an epic time where anyone can be famous.
00:03:07.000All you need is an iPhone, cell phone, period.
00:03:09.000If you can film footage and upload it and it's funny, it's inventive, it's disruptive, you have an audience and people are going to follow.
00:03:18.000So people that are going viral now, becoming superstars, aren't even the most particularly talented people.
00:03:24.000In society, they just have a niche and they know how to stay consistent with it.
00:03:28.000Well, sometimes it doesn't even make sense.
00:03:54.000It was a professional wrestling league that they established.
00:03:57.000When people reference what we do, I call it Olympic wrestling.
00:04:01.000Honestly, I don't even call it professional wrestling because that is kind of an ode to the WWE and old-time WWF. So it's a unique thing that we had at this time.
00:04:11.000This is Tommy Rollins, Daniel Cormier, both...
00:05:06.000So we went to the same university, and I got a chance to kind of spend some time with Rulon, but he was out when I was kind of transitioning in.
00:05:12.000And so he's an interesting cat, and he is one of those guys that's, like, shrouded in this mystery, but there's so many, like...
00:05:20.000Epic stories about who he was, what he's done, how much he's eaten.
00:05:49.000One of those rule changes that year in particular, which wasn't, it didn't translate well to the average fan.
00:05:56.000So like the toughest thing about wrestling is that the rules change so often that a non-traditional wrestling fan can't really keep up.
00:06:04.000You watch a football game, you know, listen, you put the ball into the end zone, it's six points, extra point, a point, field goal, three points, right?
00:06:35.000And even if you're within it, sometimes you have to address what the rule set is before you even compete in a tournament.
00:06:41.000There are times where we're meeting with administration and referees before we compete at the Olympics World Championships just so we can stay current on the rule set for that year because it's always evolving.
00:06:53.000Is that something that plays in your head while you're actually competing?
00:06:57.000Do you have to think like, oh wait a minute, what's the rule for this place?
00:07:02.000I think in the heat of the moment, sometimes I imagine you've seen it a lot in MMA, whether it's a guy, you know, hitting someone in the back of the head or, you know, kicking them when they're down on a knee, like all these little things that when you're in the battle, and you're fired up, and you're trying to put this man out, like you don't even think about the ruleset,
00:07:19.000you just, you know, it has to be programmed.
00:07:22.000I think experience, just a Multiple times within this position, there's a certain level of savviness and mental toughness that you have to have to get there.
00:07:31.000They've had a hard time getting people to watch any kind of grappling that don't grapple.
00:07:35.000I think that's a problem with jujitsu.
00:07:38.000And one of the things they did with jujitsu, they've come up with this new thing called combat jujitsu.
00:08:41.000I think he won the whole tournament, because he's got so much experience with strikes and jiu-jitsu as it is, and he's an elite black belt.
00:08:50.000Would that really make you release your locks?
00:08:53.000To have your arm potentially broken is getting slapped in the face.
00:08:57.000Like if I have my hands locked and I'm preventing the arm bar, like with a slap in the face really make me like, ooh, I gotta unlock, protect my face, bam, you're done.
00:09:52.000This dude looks like an absolute monster, but the slapping just reminds me of my sister and I. Back in middle school when my mom and dad were at work and we had a snow day.
00:10:22.000But that would probably be the most realistic.
00:10:25.000But the reason why they use slaps, it actually, there's a history that goes back to the original MMA, like when they were first starting to do MMA tournaments.
00:10:33.000One of the really early ones was called Pancrase.
00:12:39.000And so that's what makes us excited for the postponed Olympic Games, right, this summer, Tokyo 2021, is wrestling is going to be one of the premier sports because of their love for combat sports there.
00:12:51.000So whether it's MMA, kickboxing, boxing itself, wrestling, judo, sumo, they love the sport.
00:12:58.000And so we're really excited about that opportunity.
00:13:06.000So the Japanese Prime Minister made an announcement, public statement, saying, hey, listen, we're going to host the Olympics this summer no matter what.
00:13:12.000One of the interesting things about it is although it's happening in 21, they're still calling it Tokyo 2020. I think.
00:14:18.000How many people are in line at the McDonald's station?
00:14:23.000If you're coming from America, you can go down the street.
00:14:26.000There's a McDonald's within a mile of anybody while you're here stateside.
00:14:30.000But if you're coming from one of these smaller countries, you're coming from Guinea-Bissau, or you're coming from, I don't know, Qatar, you're like, damn, McDonald's sounds pretty good.
00:14:53.000Everyone going to the Olympics isn't expecting to win a medal.
00:14:57.000I say 90%, very large percentage of the competitors at the Olympic Games, it's a long shot for them to get on the podium.
00:15:05.000They're going with the expectation like, hey, listen, I'm representing my home country with pride.
00:15:10.000I am going to a country that I've never been before.
00:15:14.000Hopefully I can be on TV. My family will be watching me back home.
00:15:17.000The opening ceremonies is the best experience for them because they get to be in a full-packed arena around all the athletes that they've seen on TV. But they know that realistically they're not going to win.
00:15:28.000So when that McDonald's is open 24 hours, they're like, let's go, bro.
00:18:00.000And so you go, you show your medal, you tell them about your experience, where you're from, who you are, what you're going to do with all this money and fame that you've just won.
00:18:07.000And then so as soon as you're ushered out of there, you competed at eight o'clock and you don't get out of there to close to midnight.
00:18:13.000So by the time it's midnight in London, really the only thing open is McDonald's, right?
00:20:11.000So we think of our careers like cyclically, where if you're an MMA fighter, you're like, okay, I can get an opportunity to fight for the belt as long as I continue to compete at a high level, keep my brand awareness at a good place.
00:22:58.000So, I wrestle at 74 kilos or 163. And this morning, I weigh 183. So, that kind of gives you perspective as to where we are in terms of what my walking around weight is when I'm just chilling and getting ready for competition or if I'm actually wrestling at my competition weight.
00:23:16.000So, when you were supposed to be wrestling in town, this wrestling match...
00:23:34.000World champion at the weight class above me, 86 kilos or 189 pounds in 2018. So I'm the world champ at 163. He's the world champ at 189. That's a big gap.
00:24:30.000Other sports like wrestling where you only have six weights and a single athlete or a single representative from each country per weight class.
00:27:07.000And one of the things that I've seen, I've seen so many guys that I've trained alongside that have gone on to have immense success in MMA. So that's what always kind of pulls me.
00:27:40.000Just because you're a great wrestler doesn't mean you're going to be a great fighter.
00:27:43.000And just because you're an average wrestler doesn't mean you're going to be an average fighter.
00:27:47.000I've seen guys who I thought were average wrestlers become great fighters and guys who I thought were tremendous wrestlers can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
00:28:57.000He's a converted southpaw, that's right.
00:28:59.000So he was a left-handed fighter, and they had him use his left hand forward, and that way his power hand was his most dominant hand, which was his front hand.
00:29:12.000Well, it's the most important punch in boxing, and so there's a lot, like Bruce Lee believed in that as well.
00:29:17.000There's a lot of people that think that maybe if a wrestler does fight that way with that right leg forward, or wrestle that way rather, they should fight that way as well.
00:31:04.000Why do you think that MMA fighters have a much later prime than pretty much any other sport?
00:31:13.000If you look at the champions in MMA, it's very hard to find someone below the age of 30. Why is that?
00:31:21.000I think it's hard to put everything together.
00:31:23.000Because if you're a specialist in one aspect of MMA, someone generally, the person that's going to figure out a way to beat you, is a person who's a specialist in the thing you're not good at.
00:31:34.000Like say if you're a wrestler, and you're really good at wrestling, and then you'll come into a guy, you come into a fight with a guy who's a really good striker, who's got excellent takedown defense, and then you're kind of fucked.
00:31:45.000Like that happened when Brock Lesnar fought Alistair Overeem.
00:31:49.000Because Brock Lesnar couldn't get Alistair down, and Alistair is a K-1 Grand Prix champion.
00:32:34.000I think wrestling, actually wrestling is, I'm sure wrestling is the only sanctioned sport collegiately of all combat sports.
00:32:43.000So we have a very high level of pedigree in comparison to other places.
00:32:48.000So, you know, I started wrestling at six years old, wrestled through middle school, high school, went to the University of Nebraska, earned my degree there, training twice a day for five years, took the medical red shirt, To get better and then got to this place where I started to continue to sharpen my chops at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.
00:33:06.000If I made that transition, I would be so regimented in what I had done for such a long period of time.
00:33:13.000I don't think that any other sport can compare with that.
00:33:16.000And I don't really follow a ton, so I don't really know the dynamics of what it's like on a scholastic level in, let's say, jujitsu.
00:33:24.000But I have to imagine that wrestling has the strongest...
00:33:27.000Pedigree in the highest level of preparation for MMA because of its ability to be popular within the contents of an actual school, university, that type of thing.
00:35:31.000Some people eat like a little piece of fruit here and there, you know, if you really feel like you need it before a workout, but I'm telling you, man, it's crazy.
00:36:07.000Rafael dos Andres, I think, went on this kind of a diet for his last fight when he fought Paul Felder, and I think that's how he wound up making 155 again.
00:36:16.000But some guys have tried it in MMA. I know it's similar to like a ketogenic diet.
00:36:22.000A lot of ketogenic diets, guys are mostly eating meats and fats and getting their fuel from fat or from glucogenesis, gluconeogenesis, which is like when your body, I think that's how you say it,
00:36:37.000when your body processes protein and turns that protein into glucose, your body can do that.
00:36:42.000But the thing about it is there's no crashing after eating.
00:39:50.000And then they give me kind of the autonomy to figure out what my schedule is going to look like.
00:39:54.000Because I've got three kids at home, a wife.
00:39:57.000My schedule is a little more busy than the average college guy that we're training with.
00:40:00.000So I still train at the University of Nebraska.
00:40:02.000We have an RTC there, which is a regional training center, in conjunction with the college program.
00:40:07.000So I'm wrestling with those guys often in their room out in Lincoln.
00:40:13.000Yeah, so I have my smoothie at usually like 7.30.
00:40:17.000I'm in the wrestling room by 8.30 to train.
00:40:19.000We're usually on the mat in the morning, so we'll get like a light drill in, just get our bodies moving, get feeling good, or we'll lift in the morning.
00:40:27.000So I typically lift three times a week.
00:40:29.000Then in the afternoon, I'll have, depending upon how close I am to my weight cut itself, like if I'm trying to stay light and I'm getting close, like week of, I'll skip lunch, period.
00:40:55.000But you have to shrink your body a little bit because if you want to compete two hours, unlike boxing, MMA, where you have an entire day to rehydrate, replenish your body, and get ready for competition, two hours is a different beast, bro.
00:41:09.000If you step on the scale and you just sat in the sauna for an hour and you've been in a hot tub with a sauna suit and a beanie, You're finished.
00:42:57.000Between each match, you're going to have about an hour.
00:42:59.000So you know that the longer the day goes, the more you win, the more recovery time you get.
00:43:05.000So where you might start the day, I weigh in at 163, and then by the time I compete my first match, let's say I'm 169-ish, 170. Drank maybe a gallon of water, had a smoothie, ate some fruit,
00:43:20.000maybe some honey and some peanut butter.
00:43:22.000And then I'm wrestling about 6-7 pounds over.
00:43:26.000And so then as the day progresses, you're eating a little bit between each match.
00:43:28.000But then you also have to remember, you've got to make scratch weight again for day two.
00:43:55.000So like, for example, this year, World Championships made weight Saturday morning, wrestled four matches.
00:44:02.000After the semifinals, you're like, okay, I gotta make weight tomorrow since I'm a medalist.
00:44:05.000You go step on the scale, I'm seven pounds over.
00:44:08.000So now, I gotta get ready for tomorrow.
00:44:11.000I can't eat dinner after wrestling four matches.
00:44:13.000I've gotta go straight to the gym, get on the bike, get in the sauna, get on the treadmill, get the seven pounds off, and then go to sleep hungry and then weigh in again the next morning.
00:44:29.000So if you do that, say, and then you don't have to wrestle into the evening, you wane in the morning, you don't have to wrestle into the evening, then what do you do?
00:45:32.000Well, I feel like there's guys that are getting away from that now, and a lot of guys are trying to just do what you were just saying, get to about 6 pounds and cut that, and then it's the day before, and they perform better that way.
00:45:43.000The real concern is against elite grapplers, like someone who's really bigger than you and stronger than you and to take you down.
00:45:49.000But I'm just thinking, I can't believe that you have to wrestle all those matches in a day and then train afterwards to cut weight that night.
00:47:41.000So the only weight class I can make is 163. So now, not only are you trying to beat the scale and beat your opponent, but now you're also trying to beat the hydration test.
00:47:49.000It's just another way for people to cheat and then, you know, potentially suspensions.
00:47:54.000Well, fighting has a couple more weight classes, but it's still pretty limited.
00:47:58.000But what they're doing is they're just telling guys, like, if you fight at 170 and you're cutting 10, 15 pounds...
00:48:03.000Just go up to 185. And they're making sure that these guys fight and compete healthy.
00:48:09.000So they're trying to eliminate weight cutting.
00:48:14.000If you tell someone, hey, listen, I know this is a struggle for you, Joe.
00:48:16.000I know you really want to fight at 170. Your BMI says that you can, but you cannot get hydrated and fight at 170. You've got to go up to 185. And you weigh 185. And you're like, I can't compete here.
00:48:29.000But the other guys would be 185 as well.
00:48:31.000They would be doing the same thing as well.
00:48:33.000The whole idea is to eliminate weight cutting across the board.
00:49:53.000You would get a guy, measure his body mass, measure his body fat composition, do a hydration test on him, say, look, at 170, you're sitting here, you have 10% body fat.
00:50:28.000For us, we have an unhealthy relationship with food where we kill ourselves to get down to weight so we can compete at a high level and then we trash our bodies with all the things that we've been missing out on for such a long period of time.
00:50:44.000So if you look at the average fighter...
00:50:46.000Where they are in the off-season is much higher than where they typically are when they're training.
00:50:53.000If you look at a guy with his shirt off when he's getting prepared for a fight, like, damn, that dude looks good.
00:50:56.000You look at him on a beach with his family in the summertime, you're like, damn, that dude looks fat.
00:51:02.000We have to have a better relationship with food where it's more of a lifestyle because at this point, this is why you see most guys after their careers are done, they've gained an excessive amount of weight, they look unhealthy.
00:51:13.000You're like, bro, what did you do to yourself?
00:51:25.000And so it's a very, very different aspect of life that we have never really tapped into because we've been able to make it.
00:51:33.000But just because you're making it doesn't mean it's healthy.
00:51:35.000So, you know, it's almost like one of those things that until we start to register it and track it over a long period of time, we'll never really know the effects mentally, psychologically and physically.
00:51:45.000Well, I think for MMA, one of the solutions is more weight classes.
00:55:53.000Listen, if you want to build your confidence or if you want to get prepared for an event by letting someone throw you a bone, I'm not that guy.
00:56:23.000He's an interesting guy in MMA too because he...
00:56:27.000It's a bummer that he made it to the UFC when he did.
00:56:30.000Because he had really taken a long time off the sport and decided to come back and fight in the UFC. And I just don't think he was the same Ben Askren that was the Bellator champion or when he went over to 1FC. He was...
00:58:19.000He had dwelled here for so long that when he finally got to the UFC, they gave him such a competition that he never really had a chance to even get his feet wet in the UFC. It was like, alright, Lawler.
00:58:57.000He has multiple wrestling clubs back up in Wisconsin and He works for Flow Wrestling down here in Austin, who he dabbles in commentary and is an analyst for our sport.
00:59:10.000He's well respected in the MMA community.
00:59:12.000He's been a champion in 1FC and Bellator and fought in the UFC. He's done well.
01:03:31.000And so I think that you guys have done a really good job with marketing the sport.
01:03:36.000You've brought in brand sponsors and It has gone from this red-headed stepchild to boxing where it's brutal and barbarian to this sport that it's seen as more of an art form.
01:03:48.000And there are a lot of guys that are responsible for that.
01:04:33.000But when fights go to the ground and people start going for submissions, to people that have never grappled, they have no idea what's happening.
01:05:40.000You wear singlets and you just roll around with each other.
01:05:45.000Jiu-jitsu, I feel like you can go to a gym as a 40-year-old man that hasn't competed in 20 years, put on your gi, and roll around with your co-worker, and it can be completely normal.
01:06:29.000I want to have, when I finish up my career, I'm going to make a high-performance training center, and I'm going to invite all the best UFC fighters, all fighters, but I like the UFC's brand, to come train with me and help them sharpen up their skills and preparation for their big fights.
01:07:32.000You know, wrestling takes up so much of my time, and I've got little ones at home, so it's really hard to do, but...
01:07:36.000When I transition out of the sport, which I'm kind of in that phase now, I've got one more Olympic cycle in me.
01:07:42.000And then moving on to, I'd really like to help fighters because I feel like, although I don't strike, and I don't really, I'm not familiar with my striking, it's something I'll pick up later just so I can know kind of how to incorporate your striking into your wrestling offense and defense.
01:07:58.000But I think I can be a really good asset for a lot of fighters is to try to help them make that transition.
01:09:47.000There was a picture I had back in 2012 where In the gold medal match, I beat a guy named Sadia Ghadarzi from the Islamic Republic of Iran.
01:09:56.000And I've got my arm around him on the top of the podium and on the back of our warm-ups said United States of America and Islamic Republic of Iran.
01:10:27.000Because what you see that's personified in the media and what you experience when your boots are on the ground in a particular country like Iran is much different than the perception.
01:10:40.000And so the Iranian people, man, they're the best wrestling fans in the world outside of Iran, right?
01:10:44.000I'm partial because I'm an American, but...
01:11:01.000So when we land on the tarmac, we walk out to the airport, they've got media there, they've got wrestling fans, they're giving us flowers, and they are coming to our hotel room.
01:11:10.000We've got armed guards on the floor of our hotel just to make sure nobody gets to our floor because they are waiting for us in the lobby just to take photos.
01:15:35.000I mean, I remember when Marvis Frazier fought Mike Tyson and Joe Frazier was in the corner and I'm like, imagine growing up with Joe Frazier as your dad and you gotta become a boxer too.
01:16:18.000And I wanted to teach them what I knew best.
01:16:22.000Imagine you being the best in the world at something and you letting your kids escape your home at 18 without you ever telling them or teaching them about what you were the best in the world at.
01:17:36.000So it's like you have to always manage expectations, particularly with kids, because you want them to be so much, but also you have to prepare for normalcy.
01:17:46.000The hardest thing, you have resources, Joe.
01:18:51.000I'm thinking about this from my perspective as a kid.
01:18:54.000The hardest moments that I had were associated with sport.
01:18:58.000It was very rare that I had a difficult time in my life from 1 to 18 that wasn't because I had to train hard or had to wrestle hard or I cried because I got beat or choked out or slammed on my head.
01:20:01.000There's one thing where you teach them things, you know, you show them, you tell them, and you give them advice and talk to them.
01:20:08.000But another thing is they learn just from seeing what you do.
01:20:13.000When you have a dad who does what you do, which, to be an elite wrestler, maybe people don't understand this, it is one of the most physically demanding pursuits in the world.
01:21:06.000They will understand that there's a level of discipline and focus that you have that maybe they're going to see their friends' parents don't have.
01:22:07.000I want steak and lobster every night, carnivore diet.
01:22:11.000But I think, I say this, and I live this, that I think you need to struggle physically in life because it makes life easier.
01:22:20.000Because I think there's a lot of struggles that people go through psychologically, mentally, with work, with just relationships, with civilization.
01:22:28.000I think when you struggle physically, I mean like really struggle physically, I think it makes those things easier.
01:22:35.000Because you're putting yourself through something you don't really have to do.
01:22:55.000When they were young, they also were into martial arts.
01:22:57.000And, you know, I would take them to, when they were younger, they're so young, but I would take them to martial arts gym, and I would even demonstrate some things with the teacher and do some stuff.
01:23:07.000And, you know, they got into jiu-jitsu, they got into a little bit of kickboxing.
01:23:11.000So they got to see that I'm very, I do a lot of shit, you know, and so, and I've reached a high level of proficiency at those things that I do.
01:24:03.000Here's the bulk of a wrestler's income or Olympian's income.
01:24:07.000One for us is we built what we call RTCs, Regional Training Centers, that are in conjunction with collegiate programs.
01:24:12.000We get paid pretty much to train there because they use our name and likeness to kind of elevate their programs to help with recruiting, but also we're in the room with their guys daily, so we kind of teach the college guys.
01:24:24.000We're sharpening them, helping them develop.
01:24:56.000They have what they call the Living the Dream Fund.
01:24:58.000So you get money for World Championship medals, Olympic medals, going to like all these tournaments.
01:25:04.000And then what we're doing Saturday night.
01:25:06.000So if you go to these cards for like Flow Wrestling, it's pretty much like the UFC. Like you have deals where it's like, okay, this guy is this level of opponent.
01:25:15.000It's going to be watched by these many viewers.
01:25:17.000You're going to get this number of subscribers.
01:25:18.000Here's what we feel like we can pay you.
01:25:21.000So yeah, I mean there are numerous ways that you can get paid, but it's definitely changed.
01:25:25.000I was talking to Daniel the other day.
01:25:26.000He said that when he was with Adidas, when he was an Olympian back in 2004 and 2008, he was getting $12,000 a year.
01:26:42.000Daniel's such an unusual human being, because not only does he have two careers, like he had the wrestling career, then an MMA career, but he also has a commentator career, because he's so fun.
01:27:05.000He's done so well in his UFC career, and although he knew me within wrestling, now that he's made this transition, you kind of, you're weary.
01:27:12.000Like, you don't just cold call people and, like, have expectations for what it is that they can provide for you, but I'm like, bro, like...
01:30:21.000The intangibles of being really good at what you do.
01:30:23.000Especially if you're aspiring to be a great wrestler as well.
01:30:28.000And you have these guys all in your head, and you watch matches on YouTube, and you idolize these certain wrestlers, and then all of a sudden you're in front of one of them, and you didn't expect it.
01:30:37.000I mean, you might just babble out something stupid.
01:31:21.000That's a blessing, though, that you have that perspective, because there are a lot of people who don't, and by the time that they realize it, it's too late, and they've already burned so many bridges and had so many bad encounters with the people, that it's just not good for...
01:31:36.000It's not good for PR. It's not good for how people look at you.
01:33:55.000So it's a very different avenue and lane that I'm within.
01:34:00.000So I'm trying to balance these things all together.
01:34:03.000But I really have now transitioned from this young, upstart, Trying to be this hotshot guy, get my name out, to now I'm like this old wise yogi where I'm like, hey, listen, you can be successful at multiple things, my friend.
01:34:16.000And so it's been a really cool transition for me is going from this place where, you know, you're young, you're just trying to get your name out to now you're balancing multiple principles and parts of your life where it's like, okay, can I be a great husband, great father and be driven?
01:34:34.000You know what I think you could do too?
01:35:45.000So, you know, I'm always trying to figure those things out on the fly.
01:35:49.000And so kind of watching you and hearing that you have three kids and you're still moving and shaking and from LA to Austin to, you know, doing the UFC and flying all over the world.
01:35:59.000It's a really interesting perspective.
01:36:01.000How do you manage the things that you have on your plate in regards to being successful in so many different realms and still also having healthy relationships?
01:36:44.000A lot of people could do it if they put the effort into it, but it's just a matter of is it something that you enjoy doing and is it something you look forward to even after all?
01:36:53.000I've been doing this podcast for 11 years now.
01:37:22.000A thing that works for your personality.
01:37:24.000Clearly you've got that with wrestling and I feel like with a guy like you what you have is like this this Incredible vehicle meaning your mind your focus your discipline and all what you've done with wrestling You could do with anything you just have to find a track.
01:37:41.000That's good The thing is like some people don't find a track some people they get really good at fighting or whatever it is and they They become this bad motherfucker, but they that's their identity and And they can't figure out a way to focus that.
01:37:56.000Like Miyamoto Musashi, he's a famous samurai, wrote this book, The Book of Five Rings.
01:38:02.000And he has this great quote that I remember.
01:38:04.000I read this when I was a little kid, when I first got into martial arts.
01:38:08.000It said, once you know the way broadly, you can see it in all things.
01:38:13.000And I think that once you find excellence in something like you have in wrestling, you can be excellent in anything, especially wrestling, because it's so fucking hard to do.
01:38:24.000Or there's a level of excellence that you have to have to kind of weed yourself out, right?
01:38:29.000There's a certain level where you can be successful with just talent and hard work, whatever, but Then there gets to a place where you have to maintain a multifaceted balanced lifestyle.
01:39:38.000And now you have this path that you're going to go through until you're 59 and a half.
01:39:43.000But most athletes, you're phasing out.
01:39:47.000Of what you've done for your entire life at the same time that most people are transitioning into what they're gonna do for the next 30 years.
01:39:54.000So it's a very difficult proposition that we are experiencing where I've wrestled since I was six.
01:41:14.000When I go out of this phase and I'm no longer looked upon as this iconic wrestling guy who is going to beat the hell out of you every time I deem I need to and I'm just a normal human being, how do I make that transition and find what else it is that I am passionate about?
01:41:32.000And so I think now, for a long time, I've been afraid to think of other things because people are like, no, no, no.
01:41:41.000The more you win, the more opportunities you'll have.
01:41:44.000But then that's how you have the guy that won't retire, overstays his welcome, diminishes and tarnishes the legacy that he's built for himself because they just won't leave.
01:41:54.000I don't think you have to worry about that.
01:42:20.000How can you elevate your profile when no one's watching you shoot hoops anymore, fight, play?
01:42:26.000Like Kobe and Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan, all these athletes that have parlayed Their success as athletes into corporate success elsewhere.
01:42:44.000And you can't look too hard right now because right now you have to focus on wrestling and your family and all the other obligations that you have already.
01:43:59.000Trying to kind of step outside of wrestling.
01:44:02.000One of the things that I've always tried to do is transcend sport, or at least transcend wrestling.
01:44:06.000It's how can I broaden our audience and bring it all back to wrestling so everyone wins?
01:44:11.000We all elevate our profiles simultaneously.
01:44:13.000It's a difficult thing to do, but it's almost been a responsibility that was early on just placed upon me because I was just winning.
01:44:20.000And now, like, I've taken on the responsibility because I want to do it.
01:44:25.000But now I'm like, okay, well, I have to also be the first guy to move on and have success outside of the wrestling forum that's not a coach.
01:44:36.000If you look at the college landscape and college wrestling, the head coaches, most of them are Olympic champions.
01:44:42.000Tom Brands, Cale Sanderson, John Smith, you know, you've got all these guys that wrestled at Iowa, wrestled at, you know, some of the best universities in the country and world.
01:44:52.000Most head coaches were either Division I national champions or Olympic and world medalists.
01:44:58.000You were a good wrestler, you go on and coach and take over university and build this program up.
01:45:03.000But very few people want to kind of explore outside of the realm of just coaching itself.
01:45:11.000And so I'm trying to get to a place where I feel comfortable with being countercultural and doing something different that's almost opposed to where I am as a wrestler because most Olympic champions just coach.
01:45:27.000What kind of things are you considering?
01:46:05.000But I feel like they're weeding themselves out.
01:46:07.000The best athletes that have sustained success are...
01:46:10.000Men and women of integrity, at least to some degree.
01:46:14.000You might see some individuals that have a bad rap or are engaged in controversy regularly, but they eventually start to lose whatever zest it was that they had for their sport and they can't win for a long period of time.
01:46:29.000But the best, they're not embroiled on controversy.
01:46:50.000I'm going to teach you how to be accountable.
01:46:53.000I'm going to teach you how to be disciplined.
01:46:55.000And then we're going to learn athletics, how to be great wrestlers afterward.
01:46:59.000Because if I can create men and women of character and integrity, then essentially they'll become champions naturally because the people I respect most weren't the best athletes.
01:47:08.000I've wrestled with hundreds of wrestlers in my lifetime, and the ones that had the best leadership qualities weren't the ones that were the best wrestlers.
01:47:16.000It was the ones that were low maintenance, that did the right things, came to practice on time, they were good teammates, they did well in school, they were good leaders, they were guys that you just trusted.
01:47:26.000All these things you're saying to me, I feel like what I was saying earlier about you doing corporate speaking engagements, I think you would be really good at that.
01:47:39.000And again, I don't want to belabor this, but to become a world champion wrestler, to win four world championships, to win an Olympic gold medal, you have a mindset that very few people will ever be able to understand without hearing it come out of your voice.
01:48:32.000What you've achieved in wrestling is because of all these other things.
01:48:37.000Because of the hard work, because of the discipline, because of the focus and the intelligence and all these other aspects of what makes you you.
01:48:43.000But those things you could teach to people.
01:48:47.000And you teach clearly by example because of your achievements, but also because of the way you're able to express yourself.
01:49:06.000And all these things that we're talking about today, you could structure this in some sort of a plan where you get in front of these people and give them real tools that they can apply to their life that can improve them.
01:50:11.000At the time, that's what we were wearing, Abercrombie& Fitch.
01:50:14.000And we would buy a bunch of clothes and we'd go to the movies and we'd hang out and I would spend all $500 in a single week living life.
01:50:21.000And so I have to see myself as this person that can implement Different levels of advice and ideas to people that aren't necessarily peers.
01:50:51.000So I think that for me, finding that niche into where I'm like, okay, listen, you've done well, you know things, you've experienced them, you've lived them firsthand.
01:51:01.000How can you use all of the knowledge that you've gained on your journey to actually help other people?
01:51:40.000Where I'm like, I'm the guy that I have a hard time with telling people what they need to do or what they should do, what I think will help improve their lives.
01:51:48.000Because that would insinuate that I have a better life and I know more.
01:51:51.000Well, it's also a tricky thing because when you're doing that, the type of person that needs that information, that's really going to use it, they're going to ask you.
01:52:02.000They're going to say, hey, man, I really respect you.
01:52:11.000Because they want to know, because they want to do it.
01:52:18.000If someone doesn't have the desire, if they don't want to seek out the information, you don't want to give it to them.
01:52:25.000Because they're not going to do anything with it anyway.
01:52:27.000You're not going to get into someone's head unless they want to let you in.
01:52:32.000And the people that want to let you in, they're the people that are going to want to ask.
01:52:36.000They're the people who are going to want to listen to you talk on this podcast.
01:52:39.000If you did have some sort of a seminar that you did for corporations or for anybody that wants to be motivated and you can explain what you've done in your life and what led you through discipline, what gave you the focus, how you kept that fire alive.
01:52:56.000Those things are inspirational to people.
01:54:02.000Or raising grateful kids in an entitled world.
01:54:05.000So basically the premise behind the book was how can we provide for our kids a life in which we're creating character but also give them more than we had.
01:54:17.000My kids sometimes they're like just because I exist this should be afforded to me.
01:54:23.000I'm like bro, no that's not how things work here.
01:54:26.000Like First of all, if you treated any one of your friends the way you treat mom and dad and your sister sometime at home, they would beat you up.
01:54:35.000They wouldn't want to spend time with you.
01:55:30.000We're always going to want to please ourselves.
01:55:32.000And so there are so many times where I'm like, bro, listen, if you just give her the bigger piece now, I promise you that you'll be rewarded for it later.
01:55:39.000If you can just treat your mom with character and respect now, I promise you that I will reward you later.
01:55:44.000But it's so hard because in their flesh, they're like, I don't want that.
01:55:50.000Why does she get two Christmas presents and I got one?
01:55:52.000So I'm just always trying to figure out ways in which that I can implement the things that I've learned.
01:55:57.000But it's hard because no one gives you an instruction manual for parenting.
01:56:01.000I had my son at I think I was 25, 26 and I was fresh out of college and I left home at 18 and everything that I learned After 18 was learned in an environment where I was just trying to figure things out on the fly.
01:57:45.000Well, parenthood is more complicated because you're taking a person who is a tiny little baby and you're teaching them about life and you're talking to them and you're explaining things and you're experiencing all the little troubles that they go through and try to talk them through it and try to discipline them and keep them from doing things.
02:00:07.000Becoming successful at a job that's not interesting to you, but everybody's telling you, hey, it's a good job, you should do it, and you wind up doing it, and then you're stuck, and you don't know how to get out of it, and now your life is out of your hands.
02:00:18.000Yeah, but you've got a great wife, and that was a blessing for you because you see firsthand your buddies that are going through struggles and difficulties at home...
02:00:28.000Yeah, and it's not necessarily just because of their wives either.
02:00:35.000But we overburden the women when we should be the lead.
02:00:39.000So it's like, hey, I want to marry you because I promise to change and do better and reflect on the red flags and eliminate them.
02:00:48.000But the women, we put them in a position where there's so much pressure that they can't say no.
02:00:53.000So you're like, we know that this is something that they desire to have.
02:00:57.000So we present it to them and say, here, I'm going to dangle this carrot out in front of you, Joe, because I know this is what you really want.
02:01:06.000So please forget everything that I've done in the past.
02:02:49.000Because I've lost to Russians in some of the biggest matches of my career.
02:02:55.000And I know if I saw that, I would be so pissed off because they have changed my life in terms of being an Olympic champion, winning more world titles, more golds.
02:03:09.000They've taken money out of my pocket, notoriety and fame away from me, and it'll really upset me.
02:04:07.000And Gregory told him exactly what he should take and when he should take it and do this and do that.
02:04:15.000And then he was going to do the same race again the following year but juiced up and see what the difference in performance was.
02:04:22.000Along the way the Sochi Olympics gets exposed that the Russians had cheated and what they had done was it was a super sophisticated Scandal where they cut a hole in the wall and they were like transferring the dirty piss through one hole and and giving them the the clean sample to replace So they had found that there was microscopic scratches in these supposedly impossible to open bottles So the Russians had figured out a way to open these bottles Which,
02:06:24.000He was on some sort of performance-enhancing drug, so we're going to strip him of his medal, and we're going to give the guy that took fifth place the bronze medal instead.
02:06:36.000At that point, it's such a different experience.
02:08:09.000So they've been banned from the Olympic Games, their governing body, Russia itself.
02:08:13.000So all Russian athletes will have to go through a testing process, and then they will be able to compete as independent athletes under a different flag, but not the Russian flag.
02:08:27.000I've seen so many athletes in track and field and weightlifting and wrestling that have seen other athletes get stripped and then have been given their medals years later, and all they get is an Instagram post.
02:09:44.000Here, you got youth sports, and you play games, and you play freeze tag with your buddies at practice, and you do a couple of rope climbs, you're done.
02:09:52.000These guys are training like Olympians at eight years old.
02:09:56.000They're doing backbridge kickovers, and they're learning five-point throws, and they're just technically savvy at a much earlier age because they're bred for this.
02:10:38.000We're the only country in the entire world.
02:10:39.000Every country in the world has the government funding the way that they operate and making sure that they are competing at a high level.
02:10:48.000That's got to be an incredible disgrace for Russia to be eliminated from the 2020 and 2024 Olympics.
02:10:55.000Yeah, well, when you stand on top of the podium, bro, there's a certain amount of pride that comes with seeing your flag raised above all else.
02:11:31.000I mean, if you pop from a few years ago, then maybe, I don't know, maybe they pro-date your suspension and say, okay, let's say if you got suspended on that day for two years post that day, all your results in that period of time will probably be eliminated.
02:11:46.000I've heard that argument, but I've also heard the argument that if you're cheating, you should be eliminated for life.
02:12:25.000That medal count every year at every Olympic Games is something that us in the village as athletes and the presidents of each particular respective country, they're following that.
02:12:41.000Above all else, some people are willing to take some crazy chances to be successful because they know the incentives that will follow them getting their hand raised.
02:12:54.000But some people operate with character and they're like, you know what?
02:12:57.000Win or lose, I'm not doing these things.
02:12:59.000I think though with Russia, and this was pretty clear because of this documentary.
02:14:05.000I probably get a lot of heat for it and Russians probably won't be happy with it.
02:14:09.000But even if he didn't test positive then, the odds of him using steroids up before then or using some sort of performance, whether it's EPO, for training, to get to where he got to physically.
02:14:22.000You keep a lot of the gains, no matter what.
02:16:01.000After all of the conversations that happened after Icarus and after them being suspended and WADA and USADA covering up all these tests and all this crazy, crazy happening in all sorts of sports, I'm like, bro,
02:16:17.000this state-sponsored doping is a real thing.
02:16:20.000They're killing people that are blowing the whistle in Russia.
02:16:45.000It's funny because I know this is going to cause a stir within the Russian wrestling community, so I'm anticipating the backlash that's going to happen immediately after this goes on.
02:16:57.000Well, you are acknowledging their skill, too, though.
02:17:54.000If I'm playing Madden and I got a cheat code and all my guys' stats and attributes are up to 99s, and I'm trying to play you with an average roster, how can you win?
02:19:45.000But I also have seen guys that have been jacked up, and then I've seen them post-career, and they look puny.
02:19:52.000And I'm like, man, how's that possible?
02:19:55.000So I'm trying to navigate the different dynamics of this whole experience without being this jerk that's like, hey, you guys are no good, because they're good wrestlers.
02:20:19.000Particularly when you pay attention to what happened at the Sochi Olympics and pay attention to the fact, what you just said, that in 2020 and 2024 they can't fly the Russian flag.
02:21:02.000So whoever pays WADA there, whoever is taking the test, they either are so fearful or they're just in cahoots and they're getting...
02:21:14.000Well, the IOC and WADA, they switch executives back and forth.
02:21:18.000That was also part of the thing that they discussed.
02:21:20.000It's like people from WADA go to work for the IOC. IOC people go to work for WADA. I've never gotten any breaks here.
02:21:25.000And I've never seen anyone in the wrestling community, at least American wrestling, get any breaks from USADA. They are always at our heads.
02:21:34.000Same with UFC. USADA tests UFC fighters.
02:24:23.000And they're at the crib waiting and no one's home.
02:24:26.000Well, I've talked to fighters that when they had to choose between UFC and Bellator, there was two decisions, two things that led them towards Bellator.
02:25:10.000I slept in our locker room at the university.
02:25:13.000And so I remember waking up the next morning It was a guy from USADA, Dave, like, hey, JB, I'm at your house and you have an hour to get here.
02:28:50.000So when you have all this nationalism, all this national pride from Russia and China and all these different countries, you don't think they're going to do some gene editing?
02:28:59.000You don't think they're going to take...
02:29:00.000Look, let me tell you a story about Yoel Romero.
02:30:58.000And even though the United States is obviously very competitive in the Olympics and does amazing and wins a shitload of gold medals and has amazing athletes, you gotta think that these countries that are using these new tools, if they get ahead of us with this kind of shit, I mean, it could be real weird.
02:31:32.000We're going to fight to the death every single time.
02:31:34.000So no matter how savvy you are, technically skilled, how much access to resources you have, it's always going to be a fight whenever you wrestle an American.
02:31:49.000And if he was, in your head when you lay in bed and you think you lost that guy, and you look at how he looked, and you look at how muscular and vascular he was, maybe he's a Yoel Romero.
02:32:11.000That I can't ever imagine a country being better than us at anything just because we have so much structure, we have such great coaching, and we just have such a melting pot of individuals that are making freakish babies all the time.
02:32:28.000So it's like if you go to Russia, you go to any of these countries, they're not melting pots like we have.
02:32:35.000The athleticism and the genetics have not been broadened so much so because there's just a small pool of small gene pools that have kind of interbreeded with each other for thousands of years.
02:32:49.000But here in America, we have people from everywhere that have interbred and created such amazing athletes.
02:32:58.000The smallest athlete in the world, like Simone Biles, who's considered one of the best athletes in the world, to the biggest, like LeBron James.
02:33:05.000You know, it's amazing what we've been able to create here domestically because no other country has that sort of interracial breeding that we have.
02:33:15.000And we have such a profound focus on sport, too.
02:34:55.000Now everyone has a little phone and it's way more powerful.
02:34:59.000Technology always improves and then eventually trickles down to everybody else.
02:35:04.000The problem is the advantages the people who are the initial early adopters will have will allow them to accumulate so much wealth and so much success that by the time it trickles down, the game will already be rigged.
02:37:24.000So it's like, in relation to what you do, You would consider yourself an athlete.
02:37:32.000I always wonder, what pulls help someone gravitate to a particular sport?
02:37:39.000Am I great at wrestling because I just had the frame for it?
02:37:44.000Or did wrestling for so long help me to establish these certain dynamics of my athleticism that were unleashed and unfolded once I actually committed to the sport of wrestling?
02:37:57.000I think you're great at wrestling because of your mind.
02:39:40.000So I had to develop mentally, and it was just something that through years and years of concerted effort, It was never like this aha moment.
02:40:52.000Well, this guy's a fucking gamer too, but he's been working and you've been slacking.
02:40:57.000You know, you've been doing things you shouldn't have done, you've been partying, you've been doing whatever, and you thought you can get by because you think you're the fucking man.
02:41:03.000Well, he thinks he's a fucking man too, but he's been sleeping, he's been eating right.
02:41:07.000But there's certain prerequisites that you have to possess in order to be great.
02:41:19.000You have a guy who's just a gamer, super talented, doesn't really want to work hard, has moderate success, can become a champion, loses his belt the very next defense.
02:41:28.000And then you have a guy who works significantly hard, but he's not a specimen.
02:43:59.000If you want him to be a leader someday, he can't have this subservient attitude and bow to authority because you've always been at his head for so long.
02:44:11.000You have to allow him to grow up and for him to operate as a man.
02:44:16.000And you have to treat him with respect.
02:44:18.000You can't humiliate him in front of people.
02:44:52.000Sometimes it's hard when you're in the middle, like, you know, I have children, I know what it's like when you're in the middle of raising kids, like there's chaos, and this one wants attention while you're upset with this one, and then there's another one behind you breaking glasses.
02:45:39.000That's the hardest part about this is not only how do I want to present myself to the world, how do I want to present my kids to the world?
02:46:02.000I'm gonna put you in position to be great.
02:46:03.000I promise you, if you listen to your mom and dad, you will have a great life.
02:46:08.000Because I'm going to do my due diligence with my faith, with my reading, with the things that I learned to make sure that I put you in position to be successful.
02:46:15.000All I ask is that you work hard and that you treat people with respect and that you listen to mom and dad.
02:46:21.000You listen to us, your life will be great.
02:46:24.000And so I'm trying to teach him that, but he's still, you know, he's sick.
02:46:27.000So he's combative a little bit and he's trying to figure things out.
02:47:05.000It's like, it's a beautiful thing, man.
02:47:07.000And a lot of people, you know, they're going through it with varying degrees of stress in their life and bad relationships and You and I are both very lucky that we have good relationships.
02:48:54.000Am I going to be able to continue to pursue my career?
02:48:56.000And for a while it was a battle because, you know, she extremely smart, master's degree from Columbia in journalism, wrote for the Buffalo newspaper.
02:49:05.000And she had to make this transition where she had built this reputation for herself to now all of a sudden she leaves her home of Buffalo, New York, comes to live with me in Lincoln, Nebraska, and no one knows her.
02:49:15.000And so there was times where we would conflict and battle because people would be like, man, you're so lucky, like you married JB. And she'd be like, well, I had a life of my own.
02:49:25.000I was an individual that was driven and I had people that recognized me and I've won awards and done tremendous things.
02:49:58.000And whatever dreams it was that they possessed before they married us, a lot of times they lose that because now they're at home with the kids, taking care of them while we're out pursuing our aspirations.
02:50:07.000And so for me, it was important to bring my wife alongside me.
02:50:10.000It was like, this isn't just my thing.
02:50:18.000That's why wherever I go, my family comes with me.
02:50:20.000All competitions, most training camps, because it's easy to have that conflict where When I'm in the wrestling room, I feel like I need to be with my fam.
02:50:28.000When I'm with my fam, I feel like I need to be in the wrestling room training.
02:50:32.000So I think the great thing about having a great wife is she understands that this is what I love to do.
02:50:37.000This is what makes me feel purposeful and passionate.
02:50:40.000And so she allows me to do that because she knows that when I return home, I'm going to give my best effort because I'm whole.
02:50:47.000Because I've been able to do what I love.
02:52:00.000I mean, you watch some of these fights that are so exciting.
02:52:02.000Look, for the majority, they're going to be fine and they'll know when to get out.
02:52:08.000And there's modalities, there's different recovery methods, there's different things you could do to try to help yourself and to achieve a healthy life.
02:52:17.000But there's guys who don't do that, and there's guys who stay in too long, and there's guys who take those extra shots to the head when they shouldn't, and there's guys who they have bad training methods where they slug it out in training.
02:52:46.000And then there's other guys that are training and fighting intelligently, and they have much longer careers.
02:52:51.000That's why I love what Connor's doing right now.
02:52:54.000And I just follow him on social, so I don't really know personally, but it seems like he's very strategic about what he does now.
02:53:03.000Because he's got a lot of money, right?
02:53:04.000When you get money, you start to think about things differently.
02:53:06.000You don't have to grind like you used to.
02:53:08.000But you also can bring a certain level of professionalism around what it is that you do.
02:53:13.000You know, wrestling is kind of a primitive sport where you just get in the room, bang it out for a couple hours, do a bunch of sprints on the bike, and you go home.
02:53:22.000Where I feel like guys like Conor now, they're starting to have a nutritionist or a dietitian.
02:53:28.000They've got wrestling coach, boxing coach, jiu-jitsu coach.
02:53:31.000And then the camp is surrounded around him.
02:53:36.000He's not in a room with 12, 15 other guys that are just rolling around with a single coach.
02:53:43.000He's like, I need one training partner for each discipline and that's it.
02:53:48.000And I think that's how it goes and that's how it should go.
02:54:47.000I'm not sure, but I know that George is aware of it now, and I know that it made George one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time, but not always.
02:57:46.000I mean, Conor has fought at 170. He fought Cowboy at 170, but Cowboy's not really a 170. He fought Nate Diaz at 170, and Nate Diaz is not really a 170 either.
02:57:55.000These guys are capable of making 155. I mean, obviously they weighed 170 when they fought, but But you got a guy like Kamaru Usman.
02:58:02.000You're like, you ain't messing with him.
02:58:42.000That's what I appreciate about Khabib is that he is very intentional and deliberate with his precision, like almost surgical in the ring.
02:58:54.000He just walks you down, punch, psh, alright, I'm good.
02:58:57.000Well, the Gaethje fight really showed what he was made of because Gaethje has been able to chop everyone's legs apart and he was landing shots on Khabib.
02:59:58.000When Henry Cejudo fought Mighty Mouse in the second fight, in the first round, Mighty Mouse kicked him with a low calf kick and Henry's leg went numb.