In this episode, we talk about what it's like to be an anarchist in the 21st century, what it means to be a "counterpuncher," and why Joe Rogan is one of the most fun people I've ever met. We also talk about the idea of the "The White Pill" and why it's one of our favorite things to talk about, and why we should all be anti-police and anti-colonialist. And of course, we discuss why we don't need a California. This episode was produced by Alex Blumberg and edited by Annie-Rose Strasser. Our theme song is Come Alone by Suneaters, courtesy of Lotuspool Records. Music by PSOVOD and tyops. Art: Mackenzie Moore Music: Hayden Coplen Editor: Will Witwer Thanks to our sponsor, Vevolution, for the logo design and production. Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Theme by Mavus White. Music by Jeff Kaale and Mark Phillips. Our ad music is by Haley Shaw, and additional selections from Fugue Records, and our ad music was done by Mark Phillips, and the rest of our patrons, and edited and mixed by Bobby Lord. We're working on a new song written and produced by Ian Dorsch, and we did our own mixing and mastering by Matthew Boll, and Alex Blanchard. Thank you for all your support and production assistance, and thank you for making this episode so much love and support, and support us with your feedback, and your support is so much appreciated, we really appreciate it. - thank you so much, thank you, so much of you're amazing, it really means a lot, it means so much to us, we can't help it, it's a lot of it's so much more than we can do it, we're making it, you're beautiful, we appreciate you, we'll get back to you, and it's good, we've got it back, we love it, thanks you're good, thanks back, and you're great, we won't even have it, so we're back again, we need it, more than that, we mean it, and they're back, more of you'll get more of it, Thank you back, thanks, you'll really got it, good, more thanks, more, more and more, thanks again, more gratitude, more love, and more than you'll see you, again, and again, bye, bye.
00:00:26.000But the problem is my fucking shirt was at the cleaners.
00:00:29.000So then I tried to use, um, I have some other white shirts that are like these really stretchy shirts that you can wear them if they're open, but if I'm trying to put a tie on, they literally don't fit around my neck.
00:00:41.000So I'm doing this and I'm killing myself.
00:00:43.000And then I'm like, well, maybe I'll leave it open.
00:02:23.000It feels like he's just somebody who's juggling with different ideas and having fun with it, not taking anything seriously.
00:02:28.000And that's really refreshing, because in the best light, that's a fearless way to see the world.
00:02:35.000And also, he's working on this concept of, I think he calls it the white pill, you know, like red pill and blue pill.
00:02:42.000The white pill is basically, you know, I think he's highlighting that for red-pilled folks that there's sometimes a cynicism about the future of the world, and the white pill is seeing the truth of the world but being optimistic about it and thinking like we can actually make things better.
00:03:35.000I'm not sure I've quite understood them, but because ultimately he's a counterpuncher, which is, you know, government, all government is bad.
00:03:46.000So that's the idea of anarchism, is that you're supposed to, in this emergent way, You know, form groups and agree together how those groups should operate.
00:04:34.000I mean, if rebelling against that form of government, draconian measures they've put in with the lockdowns and then allowing people to camp everywhere...
00:04:42.000Yeah, but he also says, I think, that we're in a state of anarchy between different nations, because you can choose to immigrate to a different nation, and then they operate, there's no, I think there's, you know, the UN and so on, there's agreements between nations, but they operate as independent entities.
00:05:20.000The step back from the anarchist view is, you know, we should get government out of most things, but the violence thing, we should let government protect us from.
00:05:31.000So, the military, the police, you know, and things like firefighters and all those kinds of things.
00:05:38.000I mean, that forms the fabric of society that can be stable and operate well, and we could do all of the amazing things in terms of...
00:05:49.000Building new businesses, doing science, doing all the kinds of entrepreneurship, just everything that makes this capitalist United States of America possible, like all the freedoms we enjoy.
00:06:02.000At least to me, it feels like the violence thing has to be removed off the table.
00:06:48.000But I feel like, and Tim Dillon does this really well as well, is there's like a humor to it where you're almost taking down the powerful by...
00:07:50.000He was driving up Highland Avenue in Hollywood and was just saying, like, he wasn't showing the whole video during it, but he was, like, at a stoplight and, like, there was tents the whole way up here.
00:07:59.000And he was extremely, like, this is also a really nice tent.
00:08:54.000You know, you didn't get to see the real homeless situation, but Bridget Phetasy sent me a video when she was driving by Venice, and it's a minute and a half long of just straight tents as she's driving down the road.
00:10:06.000And the concern is that when you are too lenient on the homeless folks and just allow them to camp wherever they want, shit wherever they want, they just do it.
00:10:18.000And if you don't put up rules, if you try to be progressive and open-minded, it's like they have new words for them, like the unhoused and shit like that.
00:10:50.000But see, just like you said, that problem is tied up with the fact that a lot of people are struggling financially because of COVID. It feels like trying to solve the homelessness problem is in direct tension with trying to take care of people who are struggling.
00:11:08.000Well, I think it shows that there's a problem with people losing a place to live and that the solution is not necessarily let them camp out anywhere they want.
00:11:17.000I think there should be some sort of a step that the government takes, whether it's to develop housing or to build something for them, but when you let them just camp and shit everywhere, then you ruin all the other spaces.
00:11:30.000Like, the best way to keep the city intact And to try to help these people is to implement some sort of a program where you provide housing for them.
00:11:39.000Letting them just camp on the street, that's chaos.
00:11:42.000Like, now you've fucked up everything.
00:11:45.000So this particular state government just seems incompetent at solving this particular problem, but it also seems to be not very good at solving some other problems, right, in terms of encouraging businesses to stay there?
00:12:31.000You can't just keep doing this forever.
00:12:34.000And some places are starting to wake up.
00:12:36.000My hope is that a lot of this is political, as gross as that sounds, and that now that Biden and Harris are in, that they'll open things back up.
00:12:45.000And the mayor of Chicago has said this.
00:12:48.000The mayor of New York has said we have to open things back up.
00:12:50.000And I'm hoping that they take this chance.
00:12:54.000It could go the other way as well, though.
00:12:58.000The other way is now that there is a Democrat in office that they could see there's a path to pass further regulations and push this closed economy, go into lockdown further.
00:14:16.000But the Michael Malice devil argument is that, you know, that's one way for the government to gain more control or the populace is to fear mongers say that there's a big problem and that magnify the...
00:14:31.000The sort of the narrative around how big that problem is.
00:14:35.000And unfortunately, from my perspective, as a scientist, to use scientists to say, look, scientists are saying there's a huge problem, sort of use science as a tool of fear mongering, and then gain further and further control of the populace.
00:14:52.000You have to have an incentive to do that.
00:14:54.000Why would they want that kind of control while also devastating the economy?
00:14:58.000They need the economy because they need tax revenue.
00:15:01.000If they're not getting tax revenue, how are they going to feed the military industrial complex?
00:15:05.000How are they going to feed all their businesses?
00:15:06.000How are they going to feed the pharmaceutical industry?
00:15:09.000All these people that finance their campaigns and all these banks that pay for them to speak after they get out of office, where's the money coming from now if there's no economy?
00:15:20.000I think that's like one of them doom and gloom QAnon type deals where people are thinking, like, they want to kill half the population and, you know...
00:15:29.000Everything you said incentive-wise, it makes sense.
00:15:32.000I was really confused why we haven't done, for example, mass-scale testing of everybody, which seemed like, you know, the antigen tests, which can be under a dollar to manufacture, manufacture hundreds of millions of them, At home testing of everybody.
00:15:59.000And then everybody starts getting tested.
00:16:01.000At the individual level, you know, the accuracy is not perfect.
00:16:05.000But at the societal level, that's one way.
00:16:08.000If you get a positive test, you definitely have COVID. And so, based on that, trusting the individuals, not tracking them, but trusting the individuals when they get a positive test, that they will stay home.
00:16:22.000And through that process, we would have been able to open up the economy in the summer.
00:16:27.000Like, Michael Minna, I think, from Harvard, people should go follow him on Twitter or wherever.
00:18:32.000Everybody inside Silicon Valley, all my friends that work there, all the great entrepreneurs, all the people that work at big companies, Google, and so on, say, do not move here.
00:18:41.000You know, here's childlike, naive me, like, texting, oh, what are the cool places to live?
00:20:11.000Well, the question is, if you want to build, in the tech space, if you want to build a company to do something cool, I don't care if with that little app or change the world, it's some large-scale thing, where do you go?
00:20:43.000So he's been, he's kind of the reason that's making me think, like, it's very possible that this becomes, in the good sense, where the crazy, the wild entrepreneurs move.
00:20:56.000So the tech, the cool Silicon Valley moves.
00:22:56.000There's a lot of those tech guys that review things are Android guys because you're constantly taking your SIM card out of one phone and putting it in another.
00:23:03.000I got an iPhone 12 and I tried to get it registered at Verizon.
00:24:58.000Well, but the point is, it's a symbol of all my failures in life because I've gotten, it's been sitting in a box just looking at me, just like that brick of a phone, just saying, this is why you're a failure because you can't take three or four hours to read a fucking manual or tutorial or learn how to actually use this.
00:25:21.000It gets you in a way it's both exciting, inspiring, and depressing because they're so good and they make it look so easy.
00:25:29.000Like, look, you can just tap a beat and you can start But when you actually start to learn how to use it, like Ableton Live the software, you realize there's all these buttons.
00:25:40.000There's all these things you have to learn.
00:25:42.000How do I even record just the basic, just even our conversation, how do I record that?
00:25:46.000And then you have to realize there's shortcuts you have to learn.
00:25:54.000Embrace the learning curve of saying, okay, on Monday, I'm going to read this tutorial and I'm going to get it done and learn something new.
00:26:05.000And doing that alone is really difficult when nobody's really pushing you.
00:26:43.000Okay, so this is why, you've told me before not to read comments, but I do write comments on Instagram, and he put a story out, I think yesterday, saying that he's doing the 48 mile challenge again,
00:26:59.0004x4x48, where you run 4 miles every 4 hours, and like a fucking idiot.
00:28:25.000Make sure that you have You know, like logistics set up.
00:28:29.000There's going to be times at night when you're running at 4 o'clock, you know, in the morning, midnight, different times, you know, the fucking boogeyman comes out at nighttime.
00:28:38.000So make sure that you have, you know, safety parameters in place.
00:31:35.000I think it was because of the wrestling background, I've always approached everything in training with the following thought.
00:31:44.000Like, how can I train really hard, like, twice a day?
00:31:46.000How can I put in a three-hour, four-hour session of training with killers without getting injured?
00:31:51.000So don't, you know, make sure there's a strong frames, like just working on all the stabilizers, making sure to not want to, the ego, it's like silence in the ego.
00:32:01.000Just, you know, if somebody is being rough in a way, or somebody is much better than me in a way that puts me in compromising positions, Not in terms of being submitted, but in terms of just putting pressure on some body parts that's going to break me.
00:35:59.000And because of that breakdancing, he has incredible body control.
00:36:03.000You know, breakdancers, people that think of breakdancers, they don't necessarily equate it with these incredibly athletic people, but my god, the breakdancers of today.
00:38:46.000What's that style called where you're doing like a robot style like pop lock type situation where you're it's not it's not breakdancing it's like I think it's called pop locking no no like where you're deforming your body in different ways that it's kind of like a robot dance but on steroids you know what I'm talking about yes it's like you're making your body flow in all different kinds of I don't want to miss I'd say it's hyphy,
00:39:10.000but I think it's called hyphy and Stylebender does...
00:40:32.000Well, the problem is we picked a bunch of dates and Dave does some dates with like music and he's like, you know, which dates you want to do?
00:40:41.000So I picked these dates and I didn't even recognize that I picked the 23rd, which is the day of the fight.
00:43:31.000Matt, I don't know if you were paying attention to this.
00:43:34.000He's talking like a businessman, but a businessman not like talking about like tequila or like new clothing line or maybe doing a podcast or something like that.
00:43:48.000He's talking about actually building farms and honoring the culture of his people in the kind of way, the businesses that they build, honoring the dreams that his father had and his mom has.
00:44:55.000Well, his English is so, like, developed around, like, talking a little bit of trash in MMA. I don't know how good his English is developed in terms of being, like, philosophical for three hours in a podcast or, like, thoughtful about life.
00:52:40.000His mindset, he's basically David Goggins before David Goggins, which is just this mindset.
00:52:46.000I remember he said that I've always wanted to train so hard that they would have to carry me off, you know, like be near death.
00:52:54.000They would have to carry me off the mat and he's never succeeded.
00:52:57.000And he was proud of his daughter because she's a swimmer and she passed out during a swim meet in the pool and he was proud of her that she succeeded where her father failed.
00:54:38.000There's both a love in that family atmosphere and a love within the focus that they've had.
00:54:45.000For so many years, this is one of the magical things I experienced that made me even further believe that family can be beneficial for success is that they're all in on this effort that Dan had to win the Olympic gold,
00:55:17.000We sat down on the couch and just watched these, like, documentaries about people being badasses, like mountain climbing, just overcoming shit.
00:55:27.000As a family thing, as a family, all together.
00:56:25.000I don't think it's true, and I think it's too simplistic, and I think it's...
00:56:30.000There's a lot of people that don't like a lot of what Democrats are pushing, whether it is, you know, whatever the variables are, whatever the things are that they don't like about the Democrats.
00:56:50.000And that Trump equals you're supporting racism, you support Biden, it means you're the future, you're progressive.
00:56:59.000It's a weird narrative that is very polarizing to all the people that voted for Trump that aren't racist.
00:57:05.000They don't like a lot of the things that Joe Biden stands for in terms of his politics and the way he was with the Obama administration, the way the Democrats have been throughout the election.
00:57:21.000They're allowed to have their opinions, and I think we run a real dangerous risk in this country of separating people, like good versus evil, and not just respecting people's differences and differences of opinions.
00:57:36.000It's a different kind of discrimination.
00:58:01.000Like with the violence in the Capitol.
00:58:04.000You somehow equate that some of the people that stormed the Capitol are somehow equivalent to the 70 million or whatever that voted for Trump.
01:00:33.000The music, the art, the poetry, the writing, the science that came from the World War that impacted Russia way more than it did the United States.
01:00:44.000The World War II. I mean, tens of millions of people died.
01:00:51.000They had to for a century struggle with the biggest existential questions of good and evil, of losing most of your family to unjust slaughter or starvation in Ukraine in the 1930s.
01:01:06.000Like I mentioned before, my grandmother survived the Something that people don't talk about.
01:01:13.000They say that Hitler is evil and so on.
01:01:15.000They don't often highlight the evil of Stalin.
01:01:18.000There's not enough talk about just the fact that he imposed just things on the people without any consideration of the suffering that that causes.
01:01:31.000So millions of people died from starvation.
01:01:34.000Starvation, cannibalism, people eating their children.
01:01:51.000And you, he's been, he's like, I don't know, I don't know what's a good metaphor, but he released an episode now like once every year, and it's always like an exciting, it's like Christmas or whatever, as a duo.
01:02:48.000That was a little bit, I think, critical of Trump, but not between the lines, not directly, but he got shit for that before the election, was like steering into the iceberg.
01:05:46.000I feel like Hitler is a really interesting person to study, in the context of Stalin as well, of communism, fascism, the economic systems, how depression in the United States leads eventually to conflict and violence,
01:06:04.000how a charismatic leader can take control of a populace.
01:06:08.000There's so much about human nature that you can learn from there that feels more directly relevant to us now than maybe even like Alexander the Great.
01:06:15.000It just feels like there's a lot of lessons.
01:06:18.000What was the criticism about the Trump episode?
01:06:21.000The Trump episode, so Steering Into the Iceberg, I think the episode is called, I think the nature of the criticism was that Trump Magnify the division,
01:06:39.000which ultimately shut down the ability of people of having nuanced conversations and to be able to reason.
01:06:46.000And whenever you destroy reason, you're not able to do what...
01:06:52.000You're not able to make the decisions that kind of keep this country great.
01:06:58.000You're not able to think clearly, like grounded in...
01:07:05.000In a deep, real, humble understanding of reality, you're more focused on the division.
01:07:12.000So you construct sort of narratives about the other side, that they're evil somehow, and you go into this battle.
01:07:20.000And so his argument was that this kind of process, once it gets going, you're going to have a charismatic leader that takes over, like Trump or somebody else, that then is going to make it worse and worse and worse.
01:07:31.000There's too much incentive to make it worse.
01:07:33.000And that's going to ultimately lead us to destroy this nation.
01:07:38.000It's a different kind of mania than what grabbed Germany when Hitler took over.
01:07:46.000It's a different kind of mania because of social media and because there's too much information and there's too many competing ideas for it to be the same sort of situation.
01:08:00.000But I think people were really worried because that...
01:08:04.000What happened with Hitler in World War II is...
01:08:09.000We would like to think that's outside of what's possible today.
01:08:15.000But I don't think we really believe that.
01:08:17.000I think deep down in our hearts we know that a charismatic leader with all of the wrong intentions, with all of the right things lining up in terms of the economy falling apart...
01:08:32.000In terms of the lack of patriotism in general or a feeling of insecurity by the nation and then all of a sudden they get exhumed.
01:08:52.000They get risen from the dead by some charismatic person who...
01:09:27.000Because he said something along the lines of, you can't be weak, you have to be strong, you have to show, they need to show a force or something like that.
01:09:36.000Yeah, that's a really good point, because I have to read his words exactly.
01:09:39.000Because every time I read his words, they don't, on paper, they don't sound as dramatic as I think they're being reported on.
01:10:08.000There's a really good book on the drugs that fueled the Nazi regime.
01:10:13.000I feel like, damn it, I wish I remembered the title, but it's a book entirely about all the drugs that they loved that fueled that entire war, the entire regime.
01:10:24.000And it's probably, you know, we don't talk about it often, you could probably attribute most of the Nazi regime to just really good drugs.
01:10:33.000You could, a lot of it, like legitimately.
01:10:35.000Like one of the thoughts, there was apparently, there was, God I wish I remember who told me this, but there was a moment where Hitler was supposed to meet Mussolini and he was apparently just like broken down.
01:11:39.000But there were kind of buds, and he was able to convince him.
01:11:43.000So that's an interesting set of conversations that people should look at.
01:11:46.000The really interesting set of conversations is between Hitler, Chamberlain, so between Hitler, Britain, and France.
01:11:56.000And my favorite part is when it was France, Britain, and Czechoslovakia, so in the very early days.
01:12:02.000And Hitler was just, it's clear to me, there's an element of like Jeffrey Epstein style smoothness and charisma, that in the room he was able to convince people that he ultimately wants peace.
01:12:17.000And at the same time, there's this moment that really is so dark.
01:13:39.000I'm talking about a lot of these scientists.
01:13:40.000A lot of these scientists, that is their kryptonite.
01:13:44.000It's not a coincidence that this guy allegedly involved a huge part of the scientific community.
01:13:56.000In this crazy thing where he's got a fucking island and he ships off these brilliant minds over there, allegedly, and introduces them to a lot of these ladies.
01:15:00.000Do you know that when he was arrested, the initial arrest and when he was given a very lenient sentence, one of the guys who was involved in that case said it was above my pay grade and that I was told he was a part of the intelligence community.
01:15:14.000Now, the word had always been that he was either a Mossad agent or someone along those lines.
01:15:20.000Now, if you have some of the most brilliant minds in the world and you want to compromise them and you want to somehow or another get them entangled in your world, there's two great steps.
01:15:31.000I think you need some more of that, little fella.
01:15:33.000I was going to say, do you want to be...
01:15:57.000Because I tried to talk you into moving to Texas.
01:16:00.000There's two ways you would compromise the scientific community, one of them being money, right?
01:16:05.000So he gives them money, funding, helps them, millions of dollars, right?
01:16:09.000Donated millions of dollars to various projects, various things they're working on, to women.
01:16:15.000Bring all these scientists together, bring these brilliant guys together with the promise of money for all their projects they're working on, and then you bring them to an island.
01:16:26.000And they say, hey, everything's fine here.
01:16:40.000If they don't know what he's doing, and they're innocent, right, then they haven't done anything wrong, and he's giving them money and taking pictures with them, just simply by taking pictures with them.
01:16:54.000Okay, I thought you meant like, say there's a beautiful young lady here and then she was tasked with escorting me around to show how wonderful Texas is.
01:17:03.000All you have to do is have photographs with you and this beautiful young lady.
01:18:12.000If Epstein is that, like why, so there was, I guess actually Eric makes this argument, is like the whole thing that Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile was actually a negative in that sense for the, if he is a part of like the intelligent community.
01:19:33.000I've actually been attacked in the past for who is your funding source because I've been supportive of some of the things that Tesla has done.
01:19:41.000Anytime you're supportive of anything, they ask, like, what's your funding source?
01:20:26.000But do you think that the argument for that would be, if autonomous vehicle driving is ultimately one day far safer, and most people believe it will be, don't you believe it will be far safer than just manual human operations of vehicles?
01:23:34.000The reason I bring it up, people in the scientific community, and I can see that argument, and I felt that argument, and I partially agree to it, which is this is the safe way to proceed.
01:25:56.000For the people in the beta program, the FSD beta program, it's able to take left turns, right turns, stop at the light, actually take you from point A to point B fully autonomously.
01:26:11.000Except, the liability is still with you.
01:26:14.000You're supposed to always pay attention.
01:26:15.000And this is another public, what is it?
01:29:06.000Not trying to make any money off of Signal.
01:29:08.000And he said that when Elon was telling people to use Signal, something happened, and Signal literally gained the amount of users of a small country in a couple of days.
01:30:11.000I'd love to hear your opinions actually on Parler.
01:30:13.000There are a lot of people that move to Signal as a place to try to communicate with each other when all the platforms are banning just a bunch of different accounts.
01:30:22.000It's really unfortunate, man, because I see both sides.
01:30:33.000I don't think that most people are doing this because they want to support some sort of gigantic government overreach a la NSA, Edward Snowden exposed stuff.
01:30:45.000I think most people do worry that these kind of things will escalate.
01:30:49.000Now what we saw, the attack of Capitol Hill, we keep going.
01:31:00.000Millions flock to Telegram and Signal as fears grow over big tech.
01:31:04.000But go back to what Glenn said, because Glenn had a really good point.
01:31:08.000He said, three journalistic units most devoted to demanding online censorship are CNN's media reporters, NBC's disinformation team, and New York Times tech reporters.
01:31:19.000Here's the letter laying the groundwork for making encrypted apps Signal and Telegram the next targets.
01:31:26.000And scroll down to his next tweet, please.
01:31:29.000He said, when the internet and encryption proliferated in the 1990s, the Clinton administration seized the Oklahoma City bombing to demand backdoor access to all encryption.
01:31:39.000Bush and Obama used 9-11 to radically expand internet surveillance.
01:31:43.000Now it's CNN, NBC, New York Times journalists who take the lead.
01:32:38.000I... I wasn't, I don't know what to think you're right.
01:32:43.000I'm personally torn about the whole banning of all these different accounts of social media.
01:32:47.000The one that really hit me was Amazon, I don't know if you're paying attention to this, but Amazon removing Parler from AWS. Yeah.
01:32:58.000It feels like that created a worse world, a more dangerous world.
01:33:02.000Because there's a difference to me than banning accounts on Twitter, which is also very complicated.
01:33:09.000But it's like the difference between banning the ability to make a phone call, the ability of banning your number, blocking your number, versus banning your ability to make a phone call at all.
01:33:22.000When the actual infrastructure based on which your apps operate is now putting its finger on the scale of who succeed and not, now that starts affecting capitalism.
01:33:33.000That means Twitter can't have a competitor that has the conspiracy theorists, that has the people that are allowed to say crazy shit about Jeffrey Epstein not killing himself or something.
01:34:53.000Fucking everybody who does something like that now is a QAnon follower.
01:34:57.000It's the greatest way to dismiss people ever.
01:34:59.000Because you were talking, Jamie and I were talking before the podcast about these hilarious threads of these QAnon followers realizing they've been had and saying, you know, I can't believe Biden's the president.
01:35:12.000And then there's some really dumb ones who think Biden is in on the QAnon conspiracy and he's helping.
01:39:06.000This thing that people have where they want to believe in Q, or they want to believe in aliens, or they want to believe in Bigfoot, they want to find these secrets.
01:39:14.000I think this is ultimately the reaching for the branch.
01:39:23.000And I think, ultimately, that's what we're trying to develop as human beings.
01:39:27.000And I think it's taking many, many, many generations.
01:39:30.000And I think the evolution of human communication through grunts and gestures, all the way up to sounds, all the way up to complicated computer code and various languages,
01:39:46.000I think that what we are doing is trying to evolve human communication, whether it's through biology or whether it's through technology, to the point where there are no secrets.
01:40:30.000We're gonna realize that we're in this massive conflict between lies and truth and encryption and disinformation and propaganda and these fucking...
01:40:44.000Crazy conspiracy theorists and all these people that are alt-right and white supremacists.
01:40:51.000Are the Proud Boys evil or was it all just a joke?
01:40:58.000Because the fucking mainstream media does not have a vested interest in telling you the truth.
01:41:02.000They have a vested interest in telling you whatever the fuck they should tell you that's going to make the most people around them happy and sell the most clicks and get them the most views.
01:42:30.000Well, I think I love the picture you paint of reaching for branches and everyone's reaching for different branches.
01:42:37.000I think on the path to reading each other's minds, there's going to be a lot of technologies that allow you to read each other's minds in more subtle ways before it's like full-on waterfall, Neuralink, just...
01:42:52.000I think that's what social media does.
01:42:56.000I mean, we're all struggling with this.
01:42:58.000And I think despite the media and all that, everybody is just like the alien folks are reaching for the different branches and underlying that is ultimately like a curiosity and an optimism.
01:43:13.000And that's how we got to where we are today.
01:43:16.000It's just like chimps being, you know, the sons of apes, but it starts with bacteria.
01:43:21.000It's just like reaching, always reaching for the next branch, like hopeful.
01:43:47.000But because of that kind of reaching, a hundred years from now, several hundred years from now, it'll be ridiculous to think that obviously we would not be colonizing this solar system and even other solar systems.
01:43:59.000And that kind of thinking, then that moves to robots.
01:45:13.000That's how Mike Tyson fucked his neck up.
01:45:15.000Bridges, the problem with bridges is you're putting all this weight on those discs.
01:45:19.000The thing about the iron neck is when you have this halo on and this bungee cord, Mike Jolly, the guy who invented it, was a fucking gigantic NFL player.
01:47:42.000There's a fine line between this idea of 40%, like people quit at 40%, pushing past that, but also having irreparable physical damage to your body.
01:51:16.000When you see Cam Haynes, you see a guy who's like this fitness endurance athlete, but that's deceiving.
01:51:23.000Because although he is those things, he is those things to be the best bowhunter on earth.
01:51:29.000And there's a real argument that he's the greatest bowhunter of all time.
01:51:34.000Like, if you ask me, I love him to death, but if I wasn't his friend, and I was on the outside looking at him, and I'm like, who's the greatest bowhunter of all time?
01:52:22.000But he fucking strong arms them into making him a 90 pound bow.
01:52:27.000So all these other bow companies, or all these other bow hunters rather, a few of them that are kind of butthurt and jealous, are mad that he is telling people he has a 90 pound bow.
01:52:39.000My question is, do you think you are as strong as him?
01:52:44.000And if you don't, what do you give a fuck if he's pulling 90 pounds and you're pulling 70 pounds?
01:52:50.000Are we trying to pretend that we're all the same strength?
01:52:55.000Because that seems silly to me, because I know a lot of really fucking strong people that are way stronger than me.
01:53:00.000I don't want to pretend that I'm the same strength as them.
01:53:02.000And if I found out there was a guy out there that pulls a 150-pound bow, but he's built like The Undertaker, and he weighs 300 pounds, I'd go, oh, okay, that makes sense.
01:53:10.000That's like me pulling a 90-pound bow or a 100-pound bow.
01:53:32.000So there's this weird ego thing in the bow hunting world where they get upset at him because he's a legitimate psycho.
01:53:39.000Because he literally does get up at 4 o'clock in the morning, run in the rain in the dark, puts in a half a marathon before work, goes to work, puts in another 10 miles during lunchtime.
01:55:21.000That is the most just like there's a romantic element of just like this is what I have to live with but I also love this man from her perspective and also there's this picture of like Goggins who's like I don't give a fuck I'm getting these push-ups in um and he's he didn't really plan it he's just he's just there in the corner he's like almost like why are you filming me right now just let me deal with this guy right here I'm surprised he has a bed He's
01:55:57.000shaking his arms out while he's doing these fucking push-ups.
01:56:01.000And like with that time limit, I know what that feels like.
01:56:04.000My wife and I had dinner with him and his wife.
01:56:06.000And a couple other folks after UFC. The Vegas one.
01:56:10.000Yeah, pre-pandemic, before all the shit went down.
01:56:14.000And she was like, he's nice, he's normal, he eats bread.
01:56:58.000He pushes his mind to do things that the body does not want to do.
01:57:05.000So he almost, in some ways, behaves like a robot, but one of the values in Dave, multiple values in Dave, one of the values is that he lets you know that he's not a robot.
01:57:17.000He lets you know that he's got that little bitch inside of him talking to him.
01:58:54.000If you like to work out and you want to get fired up, that scene at the Russian bathhouse at the Red Circle bar where he kills everybody, that fucking movie is so good.
02:01:45.000I'm probably, like, right now, like $1.99-ish, somewhere around there.
02:01:48.000But the problem is with carnivore, at least for me, is it makes me feel so good and lean and focused and just energetic that when I go off the path, it hits me way harder.
02:02:03.000And that almost enforces you to be almost too stoic to where you can't have fun.
02:02:41.000The real criticism is coming from people who are either, you know, there's some people that are very educated about nutrition and they have a problem with the carnivore diet.
02:02:54.000They don't like, you know, there's some evidence that points to the idea that it's unhealthy.
02:03:00.000The anecdotal evidence, though, from individuals that find great benefit in it is very compelling.
02:06:01.000If someone comes along, whether it's me shooting it with an arrow or whether it's an ethical, humane farmer, like one of the ones that ButcherBox employs or some of these other ranchers,
02:07:02.000When they harvest those crops, it's devastating to the wildlife, it's devastating to small mammals, and devastating to insects, devastating to birds.
02:08:26.000This isn't me like being a social justice warrior or signaling or something.
02:08:30.000It feels like this would be one of those things that in a hundred years we'll look back and say this was a really fucked up thing that we did as a society.
02:08:40.000Because what are we going to do to control the population of these animals?
02:08:45.000Once we've established herds of cows and sheep and chickens and all these different animals that we consider livestock, how are we going to stop them from breeding?
02:08:58.000Are we going to separate them from each other?
02:10:15.000Like a fascinating way to explore the mind, scientifically as well.
02:10:19.000But he's the first person, I might be ignorant, made me realize you could actually do it as part of like, like multi-million dollar funded studies.
02:11:04.000One of the things that really excite me about what he's doing is he went from...
02:11:12.000Sort of using psychedelics or psilocybin or any of the other psychedelic drugs to explore how you can treat different mental disorders, diseases, addictions, and so on, to now pushing it towards how can it help?
02:11:28.000A person who, what he calls a creative, somebody like you, a comedian, or somebody like Elon, an engineer like me, engineer, scientist, all that kind of stuff.
02:11:41.000How can it help the mind when you're not trying to treat some kind of...
02:11:46.000Explicit disorder, but actually trying to expand your thinking about the world.
02:12:36.000It was a little tedious in the beginning because we were talking about politics and it was post-Capital Hill and it was like, you know, he was very frustrated.
02:12:44.000But when we got into drugs, then he came alive.
02:13:19.000One of the things about this podcast, I feel like sometimes people come on and they realize that it's this big platform and they have a lot to say.
02:13:25.000And when there's a thing that's happened in the news that was as ridiculous as that...
02:14:21.000It's funny enough, like, so you talk to Avi Loeb, who's, you know, the Amu Amua, somebody who's really open-minded about that, but he's less open-minded about psychedelics and all those kinds of drugs.
02:14:42.000And I think psychedelics is a legitimate, like I haven't actually tried much at all, but it feels like every time I've tried mushrooms, it makes you realize that the mind is capable of so much more than you were cognizant of.
02:15:00.000It makes me think that there's more to reality than we can grasp and that we need to help.
02:15:06.000We need a little doorway that lets us walk through to some other side, whether it's psilocybin or dimethyltryptamine or whatever the method you use.
02:15:18.000We're very crude in our perceptions, our ability to perceive, and I think Our ideas of drugs, our negative ideas of drugs, are a lot of times, they're flavored with the limitations of human personality and human beings interfacing with the world,
02:15:37.000looking for escape rather than looking to explore and looking to give in to Mother Gaia and give in to these magical compounds.
02:15:50.000Also, there's a lot of fucking charlatans, man.
02:15:53.000There's a lot of people that espouse the use of psychedelics because it makes them appear to be spiritual and it boosts their ego.
02:16:02.000I've had more than one conversation with people where they say, you don't seem like a psychedelic guy because you use a lot of...
02:16:11.000Fucked up words and you say a lot of shit you probably shouldn't say.
02:16:16.000At the end of the day, my goal is to...
02:16:19.000Look, I'm also accustomed to being around people that do what I do.
02:16:25.000Sometimes people get taken aback by my crude language or the way I think about things or discuss things, but my culture, my community is...
02:17:18.000You know, there's a sense of humor that fighters have, and there's a sense of humor that comedians have, and I'm sure first responders, firefighters, a lot of soldiers that I'm friends with, they have a different sense of humor too because they've seen a lot of wild shit and a lot of violence.
02:18:19.000Like, hundreds of stitches in his face.
02:18:22.000Yeah, the people that have been through the worst shit that I've had a connection with in my life, they always have a dark sense of humor about it.
02:19:57.000We've been taking ourselves so seriously in this very careful discourse in the public sphere that comedians point out the elephant in the room.
02:20:59.000Because of the fact that everyone's been separated from just normal regular interactions with folks You know, I remember like I would feel like when I was when I first moved to LA I Didn't have any friends and I would feel real weird.
02:21:14.000You know, I would be I had a furnished apartment So it wasn't really it didn't ever felt like mine.
02:21:20.000It felt like a hotel said that they're this place called Oakwood's these Oakwood's apartments in Burbank and I think it was in Burbank.
02:21:58.000We need each other, but we need each other person to person.
02:22:00.000And there was no social media back then, which if there was, I'd probably be just like a lot of these fucking idiots that are online raging about the world and looking for acceptance and looking for social justice brownie points and virtue signaling at any turn, hoping that it gets me some love and likes.
02:22:18.000They think they're doing it because they're trying to correct the world, but they really don't understand that they're contributing to the polarizing aspect of today's culture and climate.
02:23:22.000I was surprised how much they contributed to just pushing back.
02:23:28.000There's a lot to discuss there, but they helped stall the Nazis in the fact that it took them much longer to then, after conquering Crete, they had to go to Russia and they succeeded.
02:23:47.000The Greeks successfully Stalled the Nazis to where most of the war was in the winter pushing towards Stalingrad.
02:24:49.000Where are you getting that sadness thing from?
02:24:51.000I think, so what I heard, maybe a slight romantic thing, you brought up your wife and so on, and there was just a longing for human connection.
02:25:25.000I don't want to say softened up, but there's a sadness in there a little bit.
02:25:31.000Well, I think sometimes I mourn for the death of L.A. I really do.
02:25:37.000And I think when I'm around comics sometimes, particularly comics like Yana, who I met at the Comedy Store, there is a part of me that gets to this part where I'm like, God damn it.
02:26:17.000Why do you think it was when I was talking about my wife?
02:26:20.000Because you don't usually bring up your wife.
02:26:22.000Oh, I think it was because he was talking about his or something like that.
02:26:25.000I know, but hilariously enough, he was talking about something about him becoming famous and trying to plan ahead that if he's going to continue being married...
02:29:25.000One, there's like if a woman commits to a man and she's enhancing his career...
02:29:31.000And she abandons her own to try to help him, and then she doesn't have a career, and then he gets rid of her and cashes her out for a new model, and then she's fucked, and she needs alimony.
02:29:43.000Or, vice versa, like the Tom Arnold situation, where Tom Arnold, that's our guy.
02:29:51.000That's our fucking Michael Jordan when it comes to male alimony.
02:29:55.000He married an incredibly successful woman, Roseanne Barr, and then when he got divorced from her, he got paid, and he got rich and famous from that.
02:30:06.000There's that, and then there's when there's children involved.
02:30:09.000And I think as a guy who grew up without a father, without my real father, I don't know my real father.
02:32:51.000They're fucking yelling at each other.
02:32:52.000And I remember being terrified because I was a little kid and thinking like, God, I don't ever want to be trapped with some fucking person where they don't like each other anymore.
02:33:00.000Or even if they love each other, they've developed these patterns of communication that are so negative and corrosive.
02:33:06.000They just scream at each other all the time.
02:33:09.000And when I was a young man, that's how I thought about relationships.
02:33:13.000And also, I had a bunch of bad ones growing up, especially when I was broke.
02:33:18.000When you're broke, and your future looks pretty fucking sketchy, boy, you learn a lot.
02:36:35.000I don't necessarily think that all divorce settlements are like that.
02:36:41.000But I do think that there is an odd thing when you have an industry that is based around extracting money from people that have it.
02:36:50.000And what that is, is like, Phil Hartman told me once, he was trying to get divorced from his wife, and he was like, I go, just give her half.
02:38:45.000There's a community of people that are focused around the Kardashians and the athletes and the musicians and the this and the that and their whole ideas.
02:38:58.000You know, this obviously sounds hypocritical.
02:39:01.000It's coming from someone who happens to be famous, but I think that it's an empty pursuit.
02:39:38.000Like, are you able to be cognizant of ways in which the fact that this podcast is the biggest podcast in the world and just all of that, how that's changing your mind?
02:39:52.000I mean, I think about that with power, that you might not be cognizant of the way that power is changing you.
02:40:54.000You would hope that some president gets to a position of power not because they crave it, but because they have solutions to problems and they genuinely think that they can help the world.
02:41:49.000Yeah, massive, giant numbers of magnitudes different than anything I've ever done.
02:41:55.000For some reason, your Bernie Sanders conversation popped into mind, because that's my favorite part about the inauguration that happened, is Bernie Sanders sitting there in comfy clothes with mittens.
02:42:34.000I think he's recognizing that it's never going to happen.
02:42:36.000You know, he had this idea that he was going to sort of help the work class.
02:42:42.000I really do believe that guy was legitimate.
02:42:45.000I think he stood for what he really truly believed.
02:42:49.000I think there's a lot of people that felt disappointed that there was, you know, some votes that he wasn't there for that he could have helped and some stands that he could have taken that he didn't and then ultimately that he kind of like gave in to the powers that be and the status quo.
02:43:04.000But I think meeting him and talking to him and I don't know.
02:43:07.000Maybe I'm a romantic, but I really do believe that he had in mind only good intentions.
02:43:14.000And I think he really did want to help working families.
02:43:16.000And I really do think that he wanted to.
02:43:18.000It was one of the reasons why I supported him.
02:43:20.000I think he really did want to alleviate student loan debt.
02:43:23.000He really wanted to make universities free.
02:47:05.000Yeah, it's a story that resonates with anyone that has had a difficult upbringing and recognizes the need that children have for the love of their parents.
02:47:17.000There's a thing that happens to children when they're raised incorrectly.
02:47:31.000So the problem with this book is that she had the opportunity to write a deep psychological study of Donald Trump that's apolitical, and she kept inserting politics into it.
02:47:43.000She kept inserting her obviously liberal point of view, as opposed to studying a fascinating, complicated human being who's obviously achieved a lot of things in this world.
02:47:55.000I bet that's probably what the editors want, and I bet that's probably what a lot of other people wanted, but I agree with you Is that I want to be able to make up my own political ideas and my own political decisions.
02:48:05.000I want to know what you know about this human.
02:48:09.000You know, if Donald Trump might sit down and write a book about her, let me tell you something about this bitch.
02:50:11.000They're bringing up this, it's a stripper room, but they're like, there's this room in the basement that has no windows and weirdly a pole.
02:51:06.000He's very charismatic and witty, intelligent, thoughtful.
02:51:12.000So he's a very different style than Donald Trump, who's more chaotic, comedian-like, just off-the-cuff kind of way.
02:51:19.000And the other thing that Putin is, which a lot of dictators have been throughout history, is that he's really good at his job, actually, of being a manager, of being president.
02:51:48.000You can have critical perspectives on it, you can have positive perspectives on it, but the truth is he's really good at having the meetings with the different people that are responsible for energy, for agriculture, for the way the country runs, actually listening to them.
02:52:04.000Obama was really good at this and listening to the different experts and understanding what they're saying, even though he himself is not an expert in it, asking the right questions, thinking through it.
02:52:15.000Calling you out on your bullshit if you're corrupt.
02:52:17.000He's actually really good at fighting corruption.
02:52:19.000A lot of people argue that he's actually, while he's good at fighting corruption, he's creating an extra, like, another level of corruption by the way, the kind of cronies he gets into government.
02:52:33.000But the fact is, he calls people out on their bullshit.
02:52:37.000When he gives a lot of money to different kinds of region to perform a certain task, he expects that task to be performed.
02:52:44.000Like if a certain kind of infrastructure has to be built, he calls you out on your bullshit if you didn't build that set of roads or whatever the infrastructure is.
02:52:57.000The stuff that's underneath it, the potential hypocrisy or the deeply unethical things for which there's very little proof, but almost like common sense, like Epstein didn't kill himself level of logic,
02:53:13.000it bothers a lot of people, especially in the West.
02:53:17.000But in Russia, I think he still has...
02:54:25.000This country, the United States of America, allows people for whatever weird thing they're into, or amazing thing they're into, to be able to pursue that.
02:54:36.000And build, if it's like engineering, to build that thing.
02:54:45.000Stopped by kind of institutional breaks that slow you down.
02:54:51.000And so like the left defines that as saying, you know, if you're a minority, then there's all these institutions that slow you down in terms of your ability to be free in expressing yourself to your fullest potential.
02:55:05.000And then people on the right are saying, well, there's all these, like, how do you put it nicely?
02:55:13.000But, you know, government overreach in controlling, stifling businesses, stifling conversations, stifling thought, stifling the truth, you know, by sort of saying that this is what, by using terms like white supremacy,
02:55:30.000by using all these kinds of terminology, being with Stifling freedom of speech.
02:55:35.000People on the right are saying that about the left.
02:55:38.000But ultimately the struggle is for freedom of speech.
02:55:41.000And really effectively in Putin's Russia, all of those freedoms are kind of absent, if we're honest.
02:56:45.000I needed to figure out how to communicate with people.
02:56:48.000And I think I'm better today than I was yesterday.
02:56:51.000And I think I'll be better tomorrow than I am today.
02:56:54.000And I think you get better if you care, if you work at it.
02:56:59.000Is that the same thing with someone who runs a government?
02:57:02.000I would imagine there's some similarities and parallels.
02:57:05.000Now, the problem with that is, of course, The best case scenario is you have a benevolent dictator.
02:57:14.000You have a dictator that cares but realizes, like, you fucking idiots, I need to take care of you, but I really do love taking care of you, and I'm going to do it within your best interests, and I'm going to try to do my very best to run this country the right way.
02:57:30.000I don't think anybody thinks that of any of our presidents.
02:57:33.000I think everybody thinks that our presidents are beholden to special interest groups and lobbyists and all the people that got them into positions of power in the first place.
03:02:35.000And it was like very generic positive unity kind of But if you want to do a unity speech, you better bring your best Martin Luther King Jr. You better bring your best Obama.
03:09:46.000It's called Caged Bird by Maya Angelou.
03:09:50.000The free bird leaps on the back of the wind and floats downstream to the current ends and dips his wings in the orange sun rays and dares to claim the sky.
03:10:02.000But a bird that stalks down his narrow cage can seldom see through his bars of rage his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing.
03:10:15.000The caged bird sings with a fearful trill of the things unknown but longed for still, and his tune is heard on the distant hill, for the caged bird sings of freedom.
03:10:30.000The free-birth things of another breeze, and trade wings soft through the sighing trees, and the fat worms waiting on the dawn-bright lawn, and he names the sky his own.
03:10:45.000But a caged bird stands on the graves of dreams.
03:10:49.000His shadow shouts on a nightmare scream.
03:10:52.000His wings are clipped and his feet are tied.