Katie is a runner, triathlete, rower, and all-around adventurer. In this episode, we talk about how she got her start in running and triathlon, and how her love of adventure led her to her first marathon at the age of 13. She also talks about her experience running across the Atlantic Ocean and how she went from being an underachiever in high school to running a marathon at 19 years old. Katie also shares her thoughts on the importance of having boundaries and how to keep pushing yourself to see what's possible in life and what you can do to expand them. We hope you enjoy this episode and that it inspires you to continue to push yourself to be the best version of yourself! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review on iTunes! Thanks for listening and Good Luck Out There! xoxo, Caitlyn & Katie - Caitlyn and Katie xo Caitlyn Caitlyn is a freelance writer, photographer, and photographer. Katie is an avid reader, writer, and animal lover. She has a passion for all things wild and wild things and loves to talk about them. She is a little bit of everything in between. She also loves a good time and a lot of good food. Thank you for listening to good vibes! Katie and Caitlyn are always grateful for your support! Caitie is an absolute rockstar! - Thank you, Caitie - Cheers, <3 - Caitie and Katie - Kristy ( ) :) - Katie is a good listen Kristy is an amazing human being. - Cheers . - Elyssa is a very humble girl Thankyou, Katie is and I hope you like it's a little more than that's not too bad? - Kaitie , thank you, Cheeeeee Sarah ~ & ? Thanks, - Emily x Love you, Kristie is : ) - Rachel =) xx Rachel : | Thank you so much, Kristy, Rachel - Rachael + Rachie & so much so much more I m )
00:00:26.000Were you nervous to row across the Atlantic?
00:00:28.000I definitely was nervous, and I think that is a good thing to be able to channel that energy to make sure bad things don't happen, but that was definitely more my comfort zone than doing something like this.
00:00:41.000Is that the craziest thing you've ever done, right?
00:00:46.000Well I think that like the last endurance challenge it was like running 33 hours straight and I think that hit my physical limit more than the row did like after the row I felt like my body could probably continue going but it was just yeah more mentally challenging.
00:01:06.000How did you get started doing these kind of things?
00:01:09.000So I would definitely consider myself more like an accidental adventurer.
00:01:16.000So I had to take a gym class to get my high school diploma.
00:01:23.000And through process of elimination, I wanted to find like the easiest A because at that point I was like a bench warmer and I didn't really excel in those team sports.
00:01:37.000The Easy A was a walking running class, and I signed up just trying to do the bare minimum, and it was during that class where I was like, okay, I'm already forced to be here.
00:01:50.000I might as well try to run, and I set that target of running one mile straight.
00:01:58.000And so when I did run one mile straight, it was probably equivalent to people who run a marathon, you know?
00:02:06.000Just feeling like really elated and that's the seed that planted all the adventures to come.
00:02:13.000It's really just that one mile and realizing that I was limiting myself by what what I thought was possible and one mile turned into two, two into three and that was really how I did my first marathon and every every event was like started from really that place that one mile.
00:02:35.000So you were sort of an athletic underachiever or a not interested in athletics person?
00:02:41.000So, in middle school, I, like most people, did all the sports, all the team sports, and the focus was like, oh, hey, let's hang out, let's make friends.
00:02:51.000And my priority was definitely just hanging out with friends.
00:02:55.000I didn't have that competitive sense about it.
00:02:59.000And once it got too competitive, I kind of checked out because I was like, why are you guys making a big deal about this?
00:03:53.000And I think curiosity is very underrated in that it could really propel you to see what's possible.
00:04:02.000Curiosity time and time and again has like brought me to do things that I never imagined doing.
00:04:09.000Do you still think back to that first mile like completing that first mile and that elation the feeling of elation where you were like oh my god like a new doors opened.
00:04:22.000Like, some of my friends, now that, like, I'm more in ultra running, it's like, we'll hear ourselves.
00:04:30.000I mean, I'm not exempt from this, but saying things like, oh, it's just a mile or just five mile or just a marathon or just whatever you want to adjust it.
00:04:38.000But, like, I still don't feel like I've lost sight of that because, I mean, I know this is kind of harsh, but, like, sometimes I say to my friends, like, well, tell that to someone who can't walk.
00:04:49.000Like, It really is worthy of celebrating every step, every mile.
00:04:55.000And so, I mean, yeah, I think there's like...
00:05:02.000It's just one achievement opens the door to other ones and so yeah I definitely don't feel like I've lost that sense and I think that's important to keep just so I don't know it keeps you in that humble state rather than expecting that just because you did it you can.
00:05:22.000Yeah, it really is interesting how people are limited by their previous experiences and what they've sort of established as their boundaries.
00:05:52.000And if you haven't tried, then you really don't know if that's truthful that you can't run a marathon.
00:05:58.000So, yeah, I think we get in our own ways more than than anything else.
00:06:04.000And I'm not saying like you know there it was my first mile running was very like not graceful it was like basically I was like I want to get this over with as fast as possible so I was completely winded I didn't know how to pace myself and like I don't know the whole like reason behind it but it's like you have that metal mouth you know about that yeah it's like when something I don't do you know the science behind that
00:07:56.000I know about all these things and Then he mentioned his friend rode across the Atlantic, and that was, like, that just stopped me in my tracks.
00:08:17.000I think, like, with endurance, what's so cool about endurance is, like, at a certain point, everyone's body hurts, right?
00:08:26.000So what makes endurance, like, a really cool experience is seeing how the human will and how, like, determination, how a strong mind, like, it's a requirement because everyone, no matter how fast or slow you are, is going through that mental wall.
00:08:44.000And so, yeah, I found out about ocean rowing, and I was really captivated not only by that mental component, because, like, if you do a marathon, you go home, you take your shower, you have people cheering you on,
00:09:01.000but ocean rowing, you're stripped raw of that.
00:09:05.000Was intriguing to me because it's like, okay, how can you dig deep internally when you don't have the, you know, the finish line, you know, whatever party and like the swag and the people and the nice cozy bed.
00:09:23.000And I just kind of I liked that idea of like, being so stripped raw that you have to dig deeper than you ever would, if you didn't have all those other externals.
00:09:34.000So yeah, I found out about it on a bus.
00:09:37.000I went home and went and Googled everything I could about ocean rowing.
00:09:43.000And it was at a time where I did my first ultramarathon.
00:09:48.000So it was like a hundred kilometer run.
00:10:47.000So, like, physical training, like, compared to doing, like, I've trained for, like, Ironmans and then trained for adventures, like, purely physical to, like, these more adventure-type things.
00:11:02.000And, like, training for an Ironman, 90% is, like, what you're doing in the gym.
00:11:08.000For ocean rowing and for the more adventure-type athletic pursuits, I would say that 90% was the logistics.
00:11:19.000You could be the most fit person in the world, but if you don't have a boat, what does it matter?
00:11:24.000So I spent most of my time just sorting out through all the logistics, the sponsorship, getting the gear, training with the gear, but...
00:11:34.000Yeah, like my training priorities for rowing and ocean were injury prevention.
00:11:40.000So I did a lot with like strengthening my core and my lower back.
00:11:45.000And then on the weekends is when I would do like a six to eight hour row, training row, just to get more, to get used to the boat and the equipment more than anything else.
00:15:52.000I mean, in some ways it felt like I was just, like, living this National Geographic experience of, like, you know, I had dolphins come right up to my boat.
00:16:26.000Right at that moment that I was reaching it.
00:16:28.000So yeah, the dolphins and sharks and birds and I even had like Fish following right underneath my boat like because barnacles would grow it was like I on on the side of my boat I would scrub them off but sometimes they would just keep following my boat so every time I I named them Ed Ed and Eddie but I had like three Dorados that would keep following and birds that came on my boat
00:16:58.000and wow yeah I didn't think that there would be that many birds out there but I Yeah, how are they getting out there?
00:18:10.000Yeah, which is crazy because I was doing that journey to raise money for clean water, and yet I had a better source of water than a billion people, so that was just like, yeah.
00:18:24.000So this desalinator, I did not know that they had a portable desalinator that's that small.
00:18:30.000So I had the main desalinator, which works by reverse osmosis, and there were two solar panels that powered all the electronics.
00:18:39.000And I had a handheld one, which fortunately I didn't have to use that, but that would take two hours to pump the water that I'd need.
00:19:07.000So that meant that even if I had big waves that it could flip and it would flip back over again because of the design of the boat.
00:19:14.000And then the ballast water helped with that self-riding capability.
00:19:17.000So your ballast water was fresh water just in case of a chance that you needed water, you can get that and replace it with salt water.
00:19:23.000And then like the last week of my journey, I started just using the ballast water because it was easier and I knew I was about to finish.
00:19:30.000When you say you replace it with salt water, did you have containers that you would take the ballast water out and put it into some sort of a drinkable container?
00:21:12.000Now, when you're getting this from this guy who's done it, did he look at you and go, Katie, don't I think he was so excited to have someone lined up to buy it because there's not many people who want to buy it.
00:23:55.000So there's no way I would have been able to do it without sponsors.
00:23:58.000So there were some Cleveland companies that were able to partner up.
00:24:04.000The purpose behind it, there's definitely a purpose behind why I do what I do, and that's always been water.
00:24:11.000And so there were also some companies that shared the vision and passion that, you know, everyone on our planet should have clean water and there's ways to do that.
00:26:58.000Right now I'm working with an organization called H20 for Life, and they partner with schools here in the United States to help schools get clean water all around the world.
00:27:09.000And what's also really cool about them is they create service learning opportunities for schools here.
00:27:17.000And I think that, you know, sometimes when I'm involved with clean water, it's like, well, what are you doing here?
00:27:24.000And H2O for Life does do things here to help kids feel part of something bigger, to help kids develop empathy and concern and care for other people.
00:27:35.000So I think what they do is pretty unique in that they can both help others outside the United States and both help fill that need for kids here to feel part of something.
00:27:47.000So the row raised $150,000 for water projects.
00:27:52.000And then through all the different adventures, it's been about $400,000.
00:28:34.000It's not this We're putting money into research to figure out if it will work.
00:28:40.000There are wells, boreholes, rainwater harvesting.
00:28:44.000There's so many different solutions tailored to the communities that work.
00:28:52.000So what made it, like when you were thinking about doing this, what made Clean Water, what made that the thing that you chose to have as your main charitable organization?
00:29:02.000So I was living in Australia and they were experiencing a pretty significant drought.
00:29:10.000And Australia is very developed and to see the major headlines, to see the rules like Oh, you can't water your grass right now.
00:29:23.000And just to see that happening and somewhere so developed, it had it in the back of my mind.
00:29:28.000Like, wow, water isn't something that should be taken for granted and it isn't just this unlimited resource.
00:29:35.000And so I was studying environmental science and I remember one of my professors mentioned that the wars of the future would be on water.
00:29:44.000And in some countries it's already the case.
00:29:47.000To me, that was kind of like that one sentence that I couldn't unlearn, I couldn't stop thinking about.
00:29:53.000And it just hit me at a core of like, that is so wrong.
00:30:00.000And I, yeah, I was 19 or 20. And at that point, I felt like I had like a little bit because of traveling, like I had a little bit of a sense of what was going on in the world.
00:30:13.000But to know at that point one in six people didn't have clean water, I was like, wow, I didn't even know about one-sixth of our planet and what their daily struggle is.
00:30:25.000The fact that it's a problem that has a solution and it's something that...
00:30:32.000Like, I don't know what cause could have as big an impact as water because you think, like, okay, what can you live without?
00:30:43.000You can't even survive three days without water.
00:30:50.000And just, like, thinking about health, half of the hospital beds are filled because of unsafe drinking water.
00:30:55.000If you think about environment, if you think about education.
00:30:59.000Half of the hospital beds in the world?
00:31:06.000For children in the world, the greatest killer is diarrheal disease, and that is because of unsafe drinking water.
00:31:18.000There's this documentary that came out within the last year called, I think it's Brave Blue World, and Matt Damon shared something at the beginning about, like, imagine that right now we find the cure for all childhood cancers.
00:31:35.000And then imagine in 50 years from now, these kids are still dying from this very cancer that we have a cure for, and that is what's happening with clean water.
00:31:45.000I mean, if you, it just, I don't know, it still boils my blood just like thinking about like how wrong it is.
00:31:53.000And when you see how wrong it is, I mean, I feel like of course I would want to support that and do something.
00:32:03.000When I first started learning about it, the first water project I was able to fund was in Haiti, and I was learning about how some places they don't even give their kids a name until they're five years old because...
00:32:21.000Okay, so who's affected by the water crisis?
00:32:52.000This is not real people 5,000 years ago.
00:32:54.000And, like, just the idea of not even giving your child a name because of that fear of, like, they might not even live, so you don't even want to get, like...
00:33:03.000My friend Lex, Lex Friedman, he's a scientist that works with artificial intelligence.
00:33:08.000He posted something on his Instagram yesterday.
00:33:12.000It's a crazy statistic about children and infant mortality from, I believe it was 200 years ago.
00:35:31.000Yeah, you could say, like, I raised this much, but truthfully, it's I witnessed the generosity of others who believed in a similar thing that I did.
00:35:41.000When you say that, obviously, children, but why are women more affected by it than men?
00:35:46.000Because it's their responsibility to go and collect the water.
00:35:50.000So on average, it's like four miles every single day that they have to go.
00:35:54.000And it's not just the fact that it's a long walk, but when you're coming back, you're carrying the jerry cans, which could be 40 pounds.
00:36:15.000And also like for females, if there aren't any like latrines, like once they hit puberty and they're having their menstrual cycle, they will just not go to school anymore because they don't have a way to,
00:36:55.000So they have partners in the field building all the different projects and there's been maybe 40 or 50 projects that were funded through all the different adventures and then I have been able to visit some of them in Kenya and South Africa after the fact,
00:37:15.000after the projects were built and yeah.
00:37:19.000How do you get connected with them and how does it work?
00:37:24.000Do your sponsors pay X amount per what happens when you complete this?
00:38:16.000So, Rotary Clubs, you probably have seen their signs like, oh, we're meeting every Tuesday at 8. So it's usually like leaders in the community get together once a week and they do local and global service projects.
00:38:36.000So there's your local one, then there's districts, and then they meet for like global conferences.
00:38:42.000But basically, yeah, their focus is how can we make our community better locally and globally.
00:38:48.000And so we've partnered on different like fundraisers and And then, so there's partnering with schools, partnering with Rotary Clubs, and then part of like whenever I do speaking, I do it in return for donations to the cause.
00:39:04.000And then finally, some corporate sponsors will do like a matching fund challenge.
00:39:10.000So whatever other individuals raise, they'll match that.
00:40:59.000Are you going to do something else crazy?
00:41:01.000Um, I definitely feel called to do like, so with ocean rowing, most people go from like one island to another because you're right within the trade winds.
00:41:16.000So it takes about 100 miles offshore until you're right in those trade winds.
00:41:22.000And so I was very intentional about the row in going mainland to mainland.
00:41:28.000And the reason behind that is just because I've always thought it would be so cool to go around the whole world by human power.
00:41:39.000And when that idea came or whatever, I basically said, okay, so what's the hardest part?
00:41:48.000What's the part you're most likely to fail?
00:41:49.000And if you're going around the whole world...
00:41:52.000The row is the part that you're most likely to fail.
00:43:35.000And so I, yeah, I think the around the world trip certainly would be something I'd love to explore doing.
00:43:42.000I am also aware that like, for endurance, being in my 30s is probably the best for recovery.
00:43:50.000So although I think people could cycle around the world in their 60s and 70s, I think I would enjoy it more now just because of that ability to recover and like sleeping in a tent and dealing with all like the climate and just kind of living wild like that.
00:44:10.000Yeah, that would be one of the challenges that I could see pursuing probably in legs rather than just doing the whole thing because it would be like three years.
00:44:22.000Now when you think about doing something like that, do you get concerned about your safety?
00:44:31.000I don't do these things because I don't have concern.
00:44:37.000I definitely was concerned about the ocean and I think that's why I spent so much time researching it and asking all those questions and looking at what were the backups.
00:44:48.000I definitely took it very seriously and took those risks very seriously, but I don't know, like...
00:44:56.000Did you encounter any hairy moments while you were out there?
00:46:08.000And it's known because it's like the continental shelf.
00:46:11.000So it jumps from being thousands of feet deep to pretty shallow.
00:46:16.000So it's known to have these like waves and winds and it's just known for that kind of thing.
00:46:24.000I had an option of landing there, but I would need a boat to tow me in because I could crash into cliffs or crash into something because it's so impossible to be precise when you have those big waves.
00:48:09.000If you're a woman, like if I was a guy and I was competing in an iron woman championship, I'm like, yeah, I took third place in iron woman.
00:48:15.000They'd be like, why are you in a woman's contest?
00:49:57.000And the longest I've run is 138, and I think that's it.
00:50:01.000Like, I don't think I would like to go any further.
00:50:04.000My buddy Cam, he does a lot of them, Cam Haynes, he's done the Moab 240 and the Bigfoot, whatever it is, Bigfoot 2, it's like 205 or something like that.
00:52:15.000So since you meet all these people that do fit things, who is a person that you've met or a record that you admire or, I don't know, the coolest?
00:52:48.000By yourself, alone in the ocean, for fucking days and days and days and days and days and days with phospholuminescent water and the stars and dolphins are playing with you.
00:56:50.000I mean, like, even in Ironmans, like, of course, there's these people who finish in eight, nine hours, but sometimes the most impressive thing, like, one of the races I did, my friends and I, we stayed until the last person came.
00:57:02.000And this person was out there for 17 hours, like...
00:57:06.000And they made it just within like 20 more seconds to go.
00:57:10.000And like, yeah, it's almost just as inspiring, if not more, to see that person who's just barely made it than the one who's just like, oh, I could do that again.
00:57:24.000But there's not one person that's the most impressive.
00:57:28.000One of the more interesting things about doing a podcast is that you can talk to people from all walks of life.
00:57:37.000And so my understanding of human beings is very broad in a sense that, like, oh, I met someone like her.
00:57:49.000If you just live in the same place and communicate with the same people and you don't get out and you don't travel and you don't meet really unique and interesting people, you have an idea.
00:58:00.000You have a little box that you look to put human beings in.
00:58:06.000So what I think of what's possible with people is enormous.
00:58:10.000So it's made me very, very open-minded in terms of what's possible, in terms of just the different kinds of people, different styles of human being.
00:58:23.000Because that's kind of what it's like.
00:58:24.000There's different styles of human being.
00:59:36.000Yeah, it would be an amateur chess player overestimating their performance in the upcoming chess tournament compared to their competent counterparts.
00:59:45.000Because I thought that it had to do with someone being really good at something else, and that's why the Dunning-Kruger effect takes into position.
00:59:56.000So the way I'm looking at it, I'm looking at the Dunning-Kruger effect based on people that are good at other things.
01:00:08.000Maybe someone is a great mathematician, but they have a kind of funky view about religion.
01:00:15.000Or maybe there's someone who is a brilliant psychologist, but they maybe have a dismissive view of martial arts or people that practice it.
01:00:27.000I know people that are into athletics and they're athletic trainers and they dismiss yoga.
01:00:46.000It's not that they have anything against it.
01:00:48.000It's that they don't understand what they're talking about.
01:00:50.000Because they believe that because they're so good at this one thing, maybe plyometrics, explosive training, that you talk to them about yoga and they'll be dismissive of it.
01:00:58.000I'm like, well, how often are you doing it?
01:03:21.000There's a study that they did out of Finland that showed a 40% decrease in all-cause mortality for people that did sauna.
01:03:29.000I think it's at 170 degrees, 20 minutes, four times a week.
01:03:34.00040% decrease of all-cause mortality, heart attack, stroke, cancer, everything across the board because of the heat shock protein benefit, because of the fact that your body is kind of freaking out because of that heat.
01:03:47.000So it produces those cytokines and that has massive benefits for your health and psychological benefits.
01:03:54.000So, one of the coaches I worked with for Ironman, like, I used to do hot yoga a lot, and his concern for me in doing that on top of Ironman training was just like, okay, so you are already so dehydrated.
01:04:10.000Like, hydration is already so hard with training, whatever, 20 hours of sweating by running and biking and swimming.
01:04:17.000So, that's the only thing that I've heard, like, I don't know, have you heard anything about that, like, You definitely can get dehydrated if you don't plan accordingly.
01:04:26.000But what you really need is an electrolyte supplement.
01:04:28.000So I use liquid IV. I'll do two of those in a day is generally what I do because I work out a lot.
01:04:37.000But when I do the sauna, I do one after the sauna.
01:04:41.000But if I do a hot yoga class, I'll do it before the yoga class.
01:04:44.000So I'll do like an hour before the yoga class, I'll drink 32 ounces of water with liquid IV. The only problem is having to pee.
01:06:38.000And then, yeah, I think I was just monitoring.
01:06:41.000And rapto is your muscles start to break down.
01:06:45.000Yeah, so whenever you're working out, you're ideally breaking down your muscles because that's how they grow stronger.
01:06:53.000So from my understanding, I mean, I'm not like a...
01:06:58.000But from my understanding is that it's like when your muscles are breaking down, it's in your bloodstream, and your kidneys are trying really hard to filter it out, filter out.
01:07:10.000And if there's so much breakdown, it's beyond your kidneys' ability to filter, filter, filter, so it could cause kidney failure.
01:07:17.000So it's clogging your pipes, basically.
01:07:21.000I know that the stuff I do, no doctor would be like, yeah, that sounds great.
01:09:45.000And a lot of people have knee issues, which is because of weak hips.
01:09:49.000And so I think what's really great about rollerblading is it targets the very areas that are often very, like, underdeveloped with running and biking and repetitive...
01:10:04.000And then I think there's the stabilizing muscles.
01:10:08.000And, like, you'll get that with, like, the Pilates and things like, you know, one-legged type drills.
01:10:15.000And I don't necessarily think the stabilizers, like...
01:10:21.000From my experience, if my quads are really strong and I'm trying to run, I'm going to rely on my quads.
01:10:29.000And I'm not going to be like, hamstrings work really hard because I already know my quads are really strong.
01:10:34.000But with rollerblading, I think it gets into all these little stabilizing muscles.
01:10:41.000So the areas that I'm really sore from rollerblading is my low back.
01:10:45.000And that's another area that matters a lot with running because...
01:10:52.000Like, I think running, you could definitely think about, like, your strength and your muscle.
01:10:57.000But what's also, from my understanding, is, like, 30% of your run efficiency happens, like, because of your form.
01:11:05.000And, yeah, low back definitely helps with form and...
01:11:47.000Okay, so I have the three-wheeled rollerblades.
01:11:49.000There's four wheels, which is what most people probably have used, but three wheels are a lot faster, and it's really hard to stop.
01:11:57.000Is the two in the front or in the back?
01:11:59.000no it's it's it's not skating it's like oh yeah like a blade yes oh so i cannot stop very well well that sucks and so i would not want to go across america if i didn't know how to stop why don't you go roller skating is that too easy oh no i don't i i feel like it's for babies oh you want to go fast i mean it does feel like ricky bobby Well,
01:13:31.000I think when you don't think you could ever do a backflip and then all of a sudden you can hit two in a row or do a tuck and do a forward one and you start doing it and then you get better and your form gets better.
01:14:09.000I think it's fascinating when I talk to someone like you that is willing to row across the fucking ocean and you're saying it would take time to do the splits.
01:14:20.000Because my body, yeah, because I trained it to do one thing.
01:17:02.000People have this thing that they do that's really difficult that they don't think is difficult, and then they look at something else, and they'll be like, I can never play piano.
01:23:13.000Even if you do a lot of squats, I can squat and deadlift and put some pretty heavy weight on the rack, but this is like 25 pounds, it's difficult for me to do a leg curl.
01:23:59.000Yeah, so you hook that thing onto your sneaker, and then the barbell, or the dumbbell rather, at the bottom hooks onto this thing, and it's easy to take on and off.
01:24:39.000As I'm doing this thing, there's this guy, he's got a, it's called Knees Over Toes.
01:24:45.000He's got this protocol for strengthening your knees.
01:24:51.000And it's crazy what this guy can accomplish.
01:24:55.000Physically, like what he's capable of, and this is a guy that's had a ton of different surgeries, and one of his key moves, like these kind of moves, where they would always tell you, don't ever have your knees over your toes when you squat.
01:25:09.000And he's like, no, the reason why is because your knees aren't stable.
01:25:12.000Build your way up to that, but then work those muscles, and you get phenomenal strength, what he calls dense strength, in your legs.
01:25:21.000Look what he could do with his hamstrings.
01:29:07.000Endorphins, like, I think, yeah, what's, you know, some...
01:29:13.000Yeah, like, you assume that the farther you go, the harder it is, but sometimes the farther I go, the easier it gets, which is kind of cool to experience.
01:29:23.000That makes sense, I guess, up to a point.
01:31:12.000Yeah, I know a lot of people do those little cheeseburgers and all kinds of stuff while they're running.
01:31:16.000Yeah, I have done that for like Iron Man's, but the more I do it, the more I just kind of treat it like a little science experiment where it's like, okay, what's 30% of what I'm burning and what's like, yeah.
01:31:30.000And if you adjust to the liquid only, I think it ends up being a lot better.
01:32:15.000Now, did you learn how to eat for these things?
01:32:19.000Did you start off, did you have some bad ideas that you had to like flush out?
01:32:23.000Um, one time I did do an Ironman and the coach that I was working with is like, it's like you went to the buffet and just had a little bit of everything and like, because I think I had like, like those,
01:32:39.000not like turkey jerky, but like, Just, like, that kind of thing, and then fruity things, and, um, yeah.
01:32:49.000I think I was so nervous, and I was like, okay, I need to make sure I have sugar and salt and this, and so, um, that definitely, like, it's not that I had to stop, but it just was like, I didn't feel as good and,
01:33:04.000um, Yeah, I've definitely felt nauseous during some of these races, but it doesn't help with Ironman that you're kind of hunched over and it's hard to keep anything down.
01:33:19.000A lot of people can't even keep things down when they're working out at that level.
01:35:46.000Because you're talking about an animal that could be, you know, 1,500 pounds plus, and that's on the hoof, probably like 600 pounds of meat.
01:36:44.000They've done these studies on rats, and with one of those substitute meat burgers, they've shown increasing liver cancer and all these problems these rats are having.
01:36:54.000The other one that's weird is lab-grown meat.
01:36:59.000But sounds like it might be a way better alternative than factory farming if they can get it right.
01:37:05.000But it just seems like, wow, we're moving so close to headless things that you just saw parts off of and they're twitching and trying to get away.
01:37:16.000But it doesn't matter because they don't have a head.
01:40:26.000Poor people having to be dealing with obesity is usually because of the, like, what is the, it's like called a food desert when there's places that they don't even have fresh foods.
01:40:41.000So I think, yeah, like, if you lack financial resources, that's even more reason that you wouldn't be able to access that.
01:40:52.000Not only that, it's a terrible cycle to try to get out of.
01:40:55.000If you grow up in that environment, you live in that environment, and you grow up eating that way, and your family eats that way, and the people around you eat that way, and everyone around you is poor, it's super hard to get out of that.
01:41:20.000It's also, you know, like we were talking about before that I've, from having all these conversations with people, my box, my understanding of human beings is way wider.
01:41:31.000Because I've experienced all these people.
01:41:32.000If you only experience a small number of people, your box would be very small that you put people in.
01:41:38.000Well, if your environment is so important and if your environment is very limiting and if you're only experiencing bad food and shitty people and poverty and being in this weird crime-ridden area, that's your box.
01:41:55.000It's very hard for a person like that to escape.
01:41:58.000It's very hard for a person like that to recalibrate their view of the world.
01:42:03.000And I don't understand why we don't put more effort into trying to expand the box that these people live in.
01:42:12.000The perspective that these people have.
01:42:44.000Well, if you have more people who have better hands, then you have a better, stronger country because you have more competition, you have more opportunity, you have more exceptional people.
01:42:54.000Through that competition, more people are going to rise, more people are going to innovate, more people are going to create businesses and chase their dreams, and it's going to inspire more people, you're going to have less crime.
01:43:12.000Whenever people are running for president, they're never saying, what we gotta do is take these impoverished communities and fucking fix that.
01:43:19.000We need to fix that, because it can be fixed.
01:43:21.000If we can go to Afghanistan and send thousands of troops and nuclear bombs, Tell me we can't fix Chicago.
01:43:27.000Tell me we can't fix South Side of Chicago.
01:43:29.000Tell me we can't fix Detroit or Baltimore.
01:43:32.000Pick your impoverished neighborhood that's been crime ridden for decade after decade after decade with almost no federal emphasis on repair.
01:43:52.000A big one is the way people grow up and the environment they grow up in and the people that grow up without hope and what they're imitating.
01:44:03.000Because people imitate their atmosphere when they're children, they grow up.
01:44:05.000You're seeing people that are constantly going to jail, constantly involved in violence, constantly involved in crime, and you become acclimated to that.
01:44:36.000You don't have all the, you know, so these places, it's just literally a matter of, the universe gave you a shitty roll of the dice, and you were born into a bad neighborhood.
01:44:49.000I guess one of my encouragements in that is like sometimes like when you have, like you said, Boulder, Colorado, everyone's friendly and do like the nice things, right?
01:45:06.000But the nice things, like sometimes there's the diamond in the rough and sometimes under that pressure, something can be born that wouldn't be born without all the chaos and all the...
01:45:29.000I have, you know, I think anyone can identify with, oh, this thing was really hard, but then this beautiful thing came from it.
01:45:38.000So, yes, and I think some of the biggest redemption stories come from places where something is so broken that someone rises to do something about it or, I don't know.
01:46:08.000I think that challenges are very good for people, but I don't necessarily think the kind of challenges that you get if you're born in the south side of Chicago and you're watching people get shot all the time.
01:46:19.000But out of those environments comes a pretty amazing exceptional people because they've risen through all these obstacles and through that adversity they've gained tremendous character.
01:47:41.000And then some people are just made out of Jell-O. Some people, they're little bags, little skinny, fucking thin-walled, like, Ziploc bags of Jell-O. There's no character, no form, and they just don't have any ability to weather the storm.
01:48:12.000I don't want them to have a hard time.
01:48:14.000I want them to be happy and I want them to be loved and I want them to have good friends and I want them to pursue their dreams and have a good time.
01:48:42.000And you develop character through those challenges.
01:48:45.000And I think that's why sports are so important for people.
01:48:47.000Because some of the most fucked up people that I know, in terms of psychologically and their ability to cope and adapt and form relationships, they never competed.
01:49:00.000And they consider, because I think there's something in human beings where competing is an inherent, it's a part of your DNA in some strange way.
01:49:11.000And I think, like, it comes from survival.
01:49:15.000I think it comes from stealing and conquering and taking from one person because you don't have enough.
01:49:21.000And there's this weird sort of thing that humans evolved doing when they were just scratching and scrounging before civilization came along.
01:49:28.000And civilization came along and then it calmed down a little bit because it's like it's less important to do that and more important that everybody stick together and keep the wall strong to keep the invaders from coming in.
01:49:38.000But if you don't know how to lose, if you don't know how to pick yourself back up and try again, you're not going to be good at relationships.
01:49:48.000You're not going to be good at compromise.
01:49:50.000You're not going to be good at understanding defeat.
01:49:53.000You're not going to be good at understanding objective analysis of your own behavior, objective analysis of your skill set.
01:50:00.000The people who can't do that are almost all people that have never had those super uncomfortable moments where you do lose.
01:50:08.000I think those are hugely valuable lessons for people.
01:50:11.000I was listening to a TED talk and it was about like this guy who set out on a quest to fail and like it at the end it was so hard for him to like or be rejected and like yeah it's almost like our society is so like all about success and like just kind of I know that TED talk you're talking about yeah and he had to try to go to the neighbors and he wanted to like plant a shrub in their front yard and they're Like,
01:50:41.000no, but this lady down the street would love it.
01:52:30.000I think martial arts are a great vehicle for that.
01:52:33.000What I always say is, and I learned this from my Taekwondo instructor when I was a kid, that martial arts is a vehicle for developing your human potential.
01:52:42.000What you think you're doing is you're trying to win exchanges and fights and sparring rounds.
01:52:49.000But what you're really trying to do is get better.
01:52:51.000You're trying to get better and the problem is presenting itself in the form of this thinking, intelligent person that also can do all the things you can do.
01:53:02.000So you're not kicking an inanimate object.
01:53:06.000You're trying to kick a person who knows that you're trying to kick them.
01:53:09.000And they know how to kick you and they're trying to kick you.
01:53:11.000And so you're both doing it at the same time.
01:53:13.000And it's this wild exchange of bones and technique.
01:53:18.000And the consequences are terrible if you fuck up.
01:53:22.000Do you have a lot of adrenaline when you go into all these fights?
01:53:25.000Well, I haven't done it in a long time.
01:53:58.000And what's scary for a lot of people that do jujitsu is the idea that you're going to get hurt and you're not going to be able to do it because people get so addicted to it.
01:54:06.000Oh yeah, I feel like the hardest thing is not actually starting, it's stopping.
01:54:12.000And for me, now I'm at a place where it's like, I'm not afraid of going, I'm afraid of going too far.
01:54:20.000Going so far that, I mean, rhabda was the last one.
01:55:04.000You don't get injured all the time, you know?
01:55:07.000It seems like you get more injured than ultra stuff.
01:55:11.000I would imagine you guys get a lot of stress fractures and Goggins sent me some pictures of his fucking knees where he got his knees drained and it was like these three giant tubes of blood that were in his knees.
01:55:23.000I mean giant fucking syringes of blood and pus in his knees.
01:55:29.000Yeah, I've never experienced anything like that.
01:59:58.000And you know how people saw that video and just said, fuck it, I'm going out.
02:00:02.000And they just put the running shoes on, they just start running, or they hit the gym, they started doing chin-ups, they started doing something.
02:00:07.000That guy, he is an engine of motivation.
02:01:07.000I don't even think motivation is that important.
02:01:12.000Like, you don't need to wait to be motivated to do anything.
02:01:15.000You just do it, and then motivation...
02:01:17.000It's kind of like motivation equals movement, and it's easier to move once you kick the ball, and so the ball just keeps moving.
02:01:25.000So even motivation, it's like, yes, of course, it's important, but if you just say, oh, I'm just going to do it, and motivation will eventually show up, it's kind of like you're...
02:02:06.000Sometimes it's just like you make a choice, and whether you feel or don't feel, you've already just made a commitment, and you just understand that sometimes you feel or don't feel, but eh.
02:04:37.000And then once you start doing it, once you're a couple steps in, three, four movements in, you know, you're on your third set, you're on your fifth set, then you're in it.
02:07:05.000I mean, when I was, like, specifically trying to do it, I would definitely be, like, when I was going down, that was when I would try to take as much time versus even going up.
02:08:53.000Shield cast is like, if you had it in your hand like this, like this, if this was the bar, you'd go like this, around, and then you hold it in front, and then you hold it in front like that.
02:09:03.000And it's amazing for shoulder mobility and shoulder strength and endurance, and it's really good stuff.
02:09:53.000He got into running so he could have more endurance for bow hunting because he hunts elk in the mountains.
02:09:58.000He considers that the ultimate challenge.
02:10:02.000Yeah, so all of his endurance and all of his 100-mile races and all that shit, he got into all that, all of his crazy workout routines and lifting weights routines.
02:10:10.000He got into that entirely to be the best bowhunter on Earth, and he arguably is.
02:10:18.000This is a tight argument for who's number one.
02:10:21.000I tend to think he's number one because there's no one else who could do the stuff that he does on top of that, the physical things he does on top of that.
02:10:28.000So he can get to places that other people...
02:10:30.000Sometimes you'll see an elk, they'll cross a ridge, and you have to get to them before they get to a valley where they'll be out in the open.
02:10:38.000He can get there quicker than anybody can.
02:10:40.000And he can get there and not be tired.
02:10:42.000So he could literally run after this animal, and his heart rate will be at a totally manageable level.
02:10:49.000Whereas if I went after it, I'd be fucking dead.
02:12:20.000Since he started doing them, he's been doing it for decades, but they've actually developed these athletic contests that have to do with getting fit just for hunting.
02:12:32.000So there's a bunch of different organizations that provide various workouts specifically designed for mountain hunters.
02:12:46.000Because you're dealing with high altitude, very steep inclines, very difficult terrain.
02:14:27.000I think it's kind of like similar to if you were like jumping on a trampoline or very light and springy as long as you're not locking out your knees.
02:14:35.000Yeah, I say yes, but like I'm also a midfoot runner, so I think that helps.
02:18:29.000Like all the padding, all that jazz, that's kind of non-existent back then.
02:18:34.000Yeah, I mean I know that people do the barefoot stuff and I think that just being on concrete, like the last ultra I did was like running across Maine and it was all concrete and even then I had edema which is like swelling of your ankles and stuff.
02:19:05.000Um, so I, like, the first hundred miler I did, I remember waking up and, like, I had to go to the bathroom and I was like, okay, time to go to the bathroom.
02:19:17.000And I remember, like, telling my legs to move and they didn't.
02:19:33.000Stairs are usually really hard, but usually, like, for a lot of these events, I don't sleep well the first night just because I still have so much, like, adrenaline and so much, like, just really amped up.
02:19:49.000But then, yeah, it's just a matter of, like, sleeping a lot and doing, like, light walks.
02:22:33.000If you have sunburn and just someone touches it and you're just like, ah!
02:22:37.000Do you think it would have maybe relieved some of that pain with the ice bath?
02:22:41.000No, because of, like, chafing and, like, there's a lot of little injuries that happen that you might not be aware of until after the fact and, like, just little things like that.
02:22:55.000So, yeah, really just sleeping and eating as you can tolerate it.
02:23:11.000Usually, I mean, that's what's amazing about our bodies is, like, I don't need to tell it what to do.
02:23:17.000If you give it enough time, we'll figure out how to rebuild and how to, yeah, heal itself.
02:23:25.000So when you think about doing something like this new thing that you can't talk about yet, when you plan—excuse me— When you plan something like this out, do you just say, okay, I need a wacky challenge.
02:23:38.000I need something that really pushes me, something that's going to really get the fires going.
02:23:45.000So sometimes I feel like the bus in Australia.
02:23:48.000I do feel like sometimes these ideas find me when I least expect it.
02:23:53.000I don't really have a bucket list, but I am driven by that curious, insatiable need to find out.
02:24:02.000I don't think I'll run across Maine ever again in my life because I think what's beautiful about adventure is like...
02:24:10.000And I don't think I'll row the Atlantic again because I came...
02:24:25.000Who else ran this or that just because there's something so pure about doing something that hasn't been done before or like off the beaten path because you have no preconceived notion of what you are going to experience.
02:24:39.000So one of the driving factors for me is just like the curiosity to find out.
02:24:46.000And like now that I ran across Maine or did this or that, There's not that, like, ooh, I wonder.
02:24:56.000So I think, yeah, I don't necessarily think I'll be doing the same of anything.
02:25:03.000But with running, there's still, like cycling, I answered a lot of those questions already.
02:25:09.000Swimming, I did like a 325-mile swim, so I feel like I answered those questions.
02:25:14.000But I don't think that the questions have been answered about like the around the world trip because that has more to do with decision making on your feet and dealing with people finding out where to sleep finding out where like I don't know there's different challenges that aren't really as much physical like of course riding your bike 60 80 miles a day there's real physical challenges but For that adventure,
02:25:42.000I'm driven by meeting people and seeing parts of the worlds that you never would and these chance encounters that you would never have had you not been on this road at this time.
02:25:54.000So for running, I do feel like there are those questions of like, I've done, like, one really long run, but I'm curious to see how my body responds to doing one after another,
02:26:11.000and, like, I think what I didn't experience in Maine is running on, like, fatigue the next day, and so that's kind of where, like, cycling across America, I've done that a couple times, and I've got to learn what that feels like,
02:26:28.000and also doing, like, 200 mile bike rides at one go.
02:27:16.000So I from what I've heard is like the training happens almost during like your body adapts and you need kind of a basic level of fitness but um and will yeah oh yeah definitely yeah but yeah that's what you saw with Eddie Izzard in that documentary that there was no real serious fitness level yeah in the beginning yeah I mean like which is kind of crazy It is.
02:27:47.000But, yeah, I definitely, like, after doing marathons and stuff, you see all walks of life.
02:27:54.000And even myself, people would be like, I think in triathlon, if you're over 140 pounds for some of those races, you're considered Athena and, like, plus size.
02:30:51.000She's also experienced that thing you were talking about, like blurred vision, to the point where she had, I think it was corneal edema, I think it's called, where her eyes were bleeding, so she couldn't see.
02:31:05.000And she tripped and fell and smashed her head on a rock, so blood was pouring down her head.
02:31:48.000you know i think it's really cool also in ultra running you'll see it more that women are holding their own and like compared to men like one she fucking won she beat the first guy the the the guy who came in second place by 10 hours wow 10 hours imagine imagine you train so hard you're like i'm a beast i'm just going out there and kick ass yeah like well i came in first for men oh you came in first for men Oh,
02:33:08.000They say something about how females have a really high pain tolerance, so that's why it helps in ultras because of having babies and being able to handle that.
02:33:22.000Yeah, most men do not have a high pain tolerance.
02:33:26.000But I think women, they probably experience pain differently because of the whole childbirth thing, right?
02:33:33.000If there was like a way where you could experience, like a microchip, experience what it's like to be a guy for a day, they could plug into a guy's brain, be a guy for a day, would you do it?
02:33:45.000Why wouldn't I? That'd be interesting.
02:35:15.000But I don't know what else I would be interested in doing.
02:35:17.000I think it would be interesting to feel the difference in the hips.
02:35:21.000Like men and women have a totally different hip structure, you know?
02:35:24.000And that's one of the reasons why women have more ACL injuries and it's also more difficult for them to generate force, like kicking.
02:35:33.000Like if you watch a really elite woman kick, even though you're carrying your body weight around versus a really elite man kick, there's a big difference in the amount of power that the men can generate.
02:35:45.000And I'm sure a lot of that has to do with testosterone.
02:35:48.000I'm sure there's a lot of variabilities.
02:35:50.000But when I talked to a kinesiologist, he was explaining to me that it's also...
02:36:27.000And, like, the one thing that was being joked about is, like, the hair is the same, but now that I'm a woman, it's like $100 to cut my hair when it was only $10.
02:38:14.000Every time I hug them, every time I talk to them, part of me is going, I can't believe you're real.
02:38:19.000You didn't exist, and now you exist, and now you're 10, and you and I are having a conversation about life, and we're talking about things.
02:40:21.000I mean, I definitely, like, am attached to my body, like, and what it can do.
02:40:29.000And I think that, I mean, I have a lot of friends that are athletes and have had kids, and I've seen how they have been able to, like, balance that, like, kind of regaining their body and being able to incorporate fitness.
02:40:46.000But I mean, yeah, I guess that would be one of my fears about it, is just, like, having to let go of what my body is capable of.
02:40:56.000But by saying that, I also think that there might be an even greater appreciation for my body because it's a human, not an Iron Man.
02:41:05.000Like, I'm pretty sure a human is a little bit more, like, but, yeah, from where I stand now, it's like, boop.
02:41:20.000I mean, right now I am very aware that things change and I am very cause and charity and that is also a huge focus for me.
02:41:34.000But, yeah, a big part of my identity is these challenges, and a big part of where I get joy and excitement is around my body's ability to do these things.
02:41:48.000But, I mean, I have had injuries enough to know that I am more than just running or biking.
02:41:55.000Do you have an idea of when you want to stop?
02:42:04.000I mean, I've been doing challenges for a decade now.
02:42:09.000I think that, like, I've reached a limit in certain...
02:42:16.000And I think what might be exciting to go back to is trying to get more speed.
02:42:21.000Like, I've definitely lost speed and traded it for endurance.
02:42:25.000And so, um, after doing a few more, I think it would be fun to kind of develop what I've put off because like training last year, I didn't do any speed work.
02:43:38.000I mean, I'm not, I can talk, everything, but still, like, I've been doing that pace so much that it's really hard to do seven and eights anymore, and it'd be nice to feel that again by doing less.
02:43:52.000You seem like a person that will never find your limits.
02:44:18.000Sometimes I can tell when people are kind of squirming a little bit and they got a look on their face and they're like, hmm, maybe not yet.