The Joe Rogan Experience - June 16, 2021


Joe Rogan Experience #1668 - Krystal & Saagar


Episode Stats

Length

3 hours and 27 minutes

Words per Minute

190.62274

Word Count

39,640

Sentence Count

3,367

Misogynist Sentences

47

Hate Speech Sentences

55


Summary

Joe Rogan joins Jemele to discuss his new show, The Joe Rogan Experience, and why he thinks Maxine Waters should be fired from Congress. Plus, why The Hill should shut down the show. And why they should all be fired. And how to deal with a death threat from a member of Congress. Joe also talks about why he decided to go independent from The Hill and why it's a good thing he did. And why he doesn't want to do it anymore. And how much he's going to pay for the new show he's working on. Also, he talks about how much money he's getting from corporate sponsorships and why that's not a bad thing. Plus, he explains why he's leaving The Hill to do what he does best, which is talk about a woman in Congress who he thinks is a monster. Thanks to our sponsor, WFMU. Click here for the ad-free version of the show! Joe Rogans Experience is a podcast about comedy, stand-up, standup, and standup comedy, hosted by a comedian from New York and New York based on the podcast and produced by comedian and podcaster, in New York City. and hosts, , and to talk about what it's like to be a comedian, a writer, and a podcaster and a standup comedian, and what it s like to do standup and talk about comedy. Thank you for listening and supporting the show, and thank you for being a friend of the podcast, and for supporting it. -Joe Rogans - is a good friend of mine and I hope you enjoy the show and hope you do the show you enjoy it, too, and I know you do too, too much of it's good, because it's great, and it's worth it, and so much more, so thank you so much, so please give us a review of it, it's really, really good, and we really appreciate it, we really do, really really, thank you, really, it means it, really does, really well, so much so much. Thank you, Joe and I really appreciate you, and thanks for listening to it, bye, and really much, bye bye, bye. xoxo, bye! -Joes and Sarah and Sarah, Sarah & Sarah Joe and Sarah -p. Sarah


Transcript

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:05.000 Train by day.
00:00:07.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night.
00:00:08.000 All day.
00:00:13.000 We're rolling.
00:00:14.000 So, guys have a new show.
00:00:18.000 Hey Joe, what's up?
00:00:19.000 I just want to say, I told you, I knew it was going to work.
00:00:22.000 Yeah.
00:00:22.000 Never would have happened without you.
00:00:24.000 I knew it was going to work.
00:00:25.000 I was like, why are you trapped?
00:00:27.000 I mean, it really is actually true.
00:00:29.000 We've been thinking about going independent for a while because it's just more consistent with our values.
00:00:34.000 The Hill takes money from all kinds of people that are very contrary to the things that we've been talking about.
00:00:38.000 But You know, it's scary.
00:00:40.000 I got kids, I got bills, health insurance, all this stuff.
00:00:45.000 And so I think especially during COVID when we couldn't actually directly interact with the audience in person, it's hard to know how real it is.
00:00:54.000 So when we talked to you and we were like, oh, we're thinking about it, we're kind of nervous, and you weren't just like, maybe, you were like, yes, do this.
00:01:02.000 It actually really did help us to make the move, so thank you.
00:01:05.000 No question.
00:01:06.000 Terrible person to take advice like that from because I'm always like, jump!
00:01:10.000 Fucking jump!
00:01:11.000 Well, in this case, it was the right call, so broken block or whatever.
00:01:15.000 It's really scary, and it's one of those things where, we were telling you this before, where you're like, you don't know If you're like, am I going to miss this?
00:01:23.000 You have these guys.
00:01:23.000 You have the support.
00:01:24.000 I don't have to deal with all this administrative stuff and set design and upload.
00:01:28.000 But honestly, we love it so much.
00:01:31.000 We wrapped, I think, our second show so we could finally...
00:01:34.000 I texted her.
00:01:36.000 I was like, this is amazing!
00:01:37.000 We're free!
00:01:39.000 We do it the way that we want.
00:01:40.000 We produce it the way that we want.
00:01:42.000 And just having all the, like, big stuff out of your mind in terms of, like, the pressures of corporate media.
00:01:48.000 Because, to be clear, like, The Hill never, like, directly censored us, right?
00:01:52.000 But, and you've talked about this, it's about these outside interests.
00:01:56.000 Like, there's interests that their company has that have nothing to do with us, but could impact their interests based upon what I say.
00:02:04.000 And I've told this story publicly now about what happened, but, like, we were doing a segment.
00:02:09.000 This basic segment.
00:02:10.000 I want to be very charitable.
00:02:11.000 And once again, to be clear, the Hill never said anything.
00:02:13.000 They said, don't say this or whatever.
00:02:15.000 But we're talking about the seniority system for Democrats in Congress.
00:02:19.000 And I was like, this creates really perverse incentives because you have all these really old people who run Congress, like Maxine Waters, who's like 80 years old.
00:02:27.000 Here's all I said.
00:02:28.000 Maxine Waters will be chairwoman of the Financial Services Committee till the day she dies.
00:02:32.000 That's it.
00:02:33.000 So I later find out her fucking press secretary called someone at the Hill and said, Sagar's issuing a death threat against Maxine Waters.
00:02:41.000 Sagar's issuing...
00:02:42.000 What do I want to say?
00:02:45.000 I want to say, go fuck yourself.
00:02:47.000 I'd be like, literally put me on the phone with them.
00:02:49.000 Go fuck yourself.
00:02:50.000 But here's the problem.
00:02:51.000 And once again, The Hill didn't say anything, but I have to know this in the back of my mind.
00:02:54.000 Hill reporters have to go and talk to Maxine Waters.
00:02:58.000 That's literally part of their job.
00:02:59.000 She's chairman of the Financial Services Committee.
00:03:01.000 She has a lot of access.
00:03:03.000 One of the most powerful people in Washington.
00:03:05.000 She does other shit with The Hill.
00:03:07.000 And so in the back of my mind, I'm like, can I say whatever the fuck I want about Maxine Waters?
00:03:11.000 I mean, they didn't tell me to say it.
00:03:13.000 But even if it's the back of my mind, I would be lying if I wasn't saying that That wasn't with me a little bit, right?
00:03:20.000 You're always thinking.
00:03:21.000 You're like, man, they're not going to fuck with me.
00:03:23.000 They're going to try and fuck with your boss.
00:03:25.000 But they're putting it out there in the air, though, so they're making you think about it.
00:03:29.000 Yeah, that's the whole purpose of it.
00:03:30.000 That's exactly right.
00:03:31.000 And there were things, too, like I didn't even want Because the whole ethos of our show is we're independent-minded, right?
00:03:39.000 We're not carrying water for anyone.
00:03:41.000 We have our views.
00:03:42.000 We're very upfront about those views, but we're not doing partisan cheerleading here.
00:03:46.000 We're not carrying water for any corporation or entity or anything like that.
00:03:50.000 And so even the appearance of the Hill's a corporate entity and they're taking money from these various places, that's their right to do.
00:03:57.000 Even the appearance that that would affect our coverage really, really bothered me.
00:04:01.000 And so I'll give you a perfect example.
00:04:03.000 Do you know about this case of Steven Donziger?
00:04:05.000 It's a crazy thing.
00:04:07.000 He's a lawyer.
00:04:09.000 I think?
00:04:28.000 Which is a misdemeanor.
00:04:29.000 Which is nothing.
00:04:30.000 He's been under house arrest for now two years.
00:04:34.000 Completely unprecedented.
00:04:35.000 Show trial.
00:04:36.000 It's an insane situation.
00:04:37.000 And we were working on getting him booked to talk about this.
00:04:40.000 And meanwhile I'm seeing tweets that are saying, Crystal and Sagar aren't covering this because the Hill's taking money from the American Petroleum Institute.
00:04:47.000 Now, that wasn't true at all.
00:04:49.000 We booked it.
00:04:50.000 We talked to him.
00:04:51.000 We talked to other people about the case.
00:04:52.000 We covered the case.
00:04:54.000 But I hated that that was even a legitimate, by the way, question in people's minds.
00:04:59.000 So it was things like that.
00:05:00.000 And I have to say, like Sagar, I was worried there would be things that I really missed about having the corporate structure, like just that support system around.
00:05:08.000 We feel so free.
00:05:10.000 Doing the show is just an absolute pleasure.
00:05:13.000 We feel unencumbered.
00:05:15.000 It's actually even more of a relief and the audience has showed up for us even more than we ever could have expected.
00:05:21.000 It was amazing.
00:05:22.000 I mean, Maxine, you can't control me now.
00:05:28.000 The thing is, what they did by saying that you issued a death threat against them is literally that is everything that's wrong with politics and everything that's right about your show is that you guys are just present and honest and you see things and you talk about those things without biases.
00:05:45.000 And you have perspectives, but you don't have biases.
00:05:48.000 And the problem with these people is it's all bullshit.
00:05:51.000 And so by saying that, they know you didn't really issue a death threat.
00:05:55.000 Of course.
00:05:55.000 He knows.
00:05:56.000 He knows.
00:05:57.000 He knew when he opened his mouth.
00:05:58.000 Everyone knows.
00:05:59.000 Everyone knows.
00:05:59.000 And the crazy thing is- But they're playing a game.
00:06:00.000 This happened twice.
00:06:01.000 So this happened to another time.
00:06:03.000 So I was doing a lot of reporting around TikTok.
00:06:06.000 And I was noticing all of these former Republican lawmaker lobbyists are working now for TikTok because I heard they were paying top dollar rates.
00:06:14.000 So I do some investigation.
00:06:15.000 This is basic Google.
00:06:16.000 I went on Google and I was looking at who TikTok has been hiring.
00:06:19.000 And one of them, I'm not kidding you, is the former head or a part of the Department of Homeland Security Cybersecurity Division, who is now working for TikTok, the Chinese government.
00:06:31.000 Okay?
00:06:31.000 For a Chinese controlled app.
00:06:33.000 All right.
00:06:33.000 So I put that on the show.
00:06:35.000 I did a whole monologue about all these people who work in Washington.
00:06:38.000 You know, I was like, you want to see The Revolving Door?
00:06:40.000 This is it.
00:06:41.000 These people are complete, like, murder for hires.
00:06:44.000 They're mercenaries.
00:06:45.000 They don't give a shit about you.
00:06:46.000 They don't give a shit about America, any of this stuff.
00:06:48.000 The former cybersecurity lady is now working for TikTok.
00:06:51.000 All right.
00:06:52.000 And it's public.
00:06:53.000 And so I put it on the show.
00:06:54.000 What do you think happens?
00:06:55.000 TikTok calls somebody over at the Hill and says, Sagar is threatening the lives of the people at TikTok.
00:07:01.000 And I'm like, yeah, once again, fuck you!
00:07:04.000 Yeah, I'm a dangerous man!
00:07:05.000 I'm a dangerous man!
00:07:07.000 Left and right!
00:07:08.000 You're very brave for inviting him in here today, Joe.
00:07:09.000 Thank you, Joe.
00:07:11.000 I know you're MMA trained, but apparently I'm issuing death threats left and right.
00:07:16.000 But again, now once I have to think about this, I'm like, this is crazy.
00:07:20.000 And here's the other problem.
00:07:22.000 The Hill was taking ad dollars at the time from Huawei.
00:07:24.000 So Huawei, which is a Chinese telecom company, And I was thinking in the back of my mind, man, if TikTok was real smart, they'd buy some advertising at The Hill.
00:07:31.000 Because then I'd really have to be like, no shit.
00:07:33.000 Why was The Hill taking money from what?
00:07:35.000 Was this after the ban?
00:07:37.000 I don't know.
00:07:38.000 Once again, they can do whatever they want.
00:07:39.000 They're not a business.
00:07:39.000 But that is a weird one, right?
00:07:40.000 It's not on us.
00:07:41.000 It's not a weird one?
00:07:42.000 Everyone takes money from Huawei.
00:07:43.000 WAPO, New York Times, all of them.
00:07:45.000 Everybody takes money from whoever they can.
00:07:47.000 I mean, the media business and all...
00:07:49.000 In some ways, it was really brought, you know, back from the dead by Trump because he increased traffic so much and subscriber numbers so much for the New York Times and Washington.
00:07:58.000 I mean, that's the irony of his whole attack on the media was the best thing that ever happened to the media.
00:08:05.000 But the overall model is in freefall and people are revolting.
00:08:10.000 I mean, that's really what with the success of your show with, you know, what what has happened with Breaking Points, our new show that has been totally wild is People don't want this spoon-fed narrative.
00:08:22.000 They don't want to have to think about, like, why is this paper covering these politicians in this incredibly fluffy way?
00:08:30.000 Because they're more interested in maintaining their access and maintaining their social status within that club than they are in actually getting the facts right in a way that can require sometimes courage, that can be uncomfortable sometimes with your social set.
00:08:45.000 And so I really do see it as kind of a watershed moment where some of the old models are dying and people are sick and tired of having their attention monetized.
00:08:55.000 They're sick and tired of being fed whatever the, like, safe mainstream narrative is.
00:09:00.000 And all they want is just someone who, look, may get it wrong sometimes, but is really just trying to figure out what the truth of the matter is.
00:09:09.000 Yeah, it's actually a viable strategy to tell the truth now as far as like a marketing strategy.
00:09:16.000 Do you remember that clip of the Amy Robach and Epstein where the Disney, she works for, and she laid it all out there.
00:09:23.000 She didn't even know, but this is what I'm talking about.
00:09:25.000 She was like, Oh, the palace got involved, and they started calling this, and then Will and Kate's, that's it!
00:09:30.000 That's all, a little peek behind the curtain, and it repeats itself.
00:09:33.000 Isn't it amazing that that lady, her doing that in front of the camera, and not knowing that they were even filming, and then someone takes it and releases it, everybody gets a chance to see.
00:09:42.000 So what do they say not on camera?
00:09:43.000 Well, there's a few of these things that are happening, right?
00:09:46.000 How about the John Cena one?
00:09:47.000 The John Cena one was a wake-up call for America, because all these fucking pro wrestling fans are like, wait a minute!
00:09:53.000 He's speaking Chinese.
00:09:54.000 Like, this is real.
00:09:55.000 This shit is real.
00:09:56.000 John Cena is speaking Mandarin.
00:09:58.000 He's apologizing for calling Taiwan a country.
00:10:00.000 I know.
00:10:01.000 And is he using a filter?
00:10:03.000 Because he looks slightly Asian.
00:10:05.000 Yeah.
00:10:06.000 Right?
00:10:06.000 So we later found out, the man speaks fluent Mandarin.
00:10:09.000 We figured it out.
00:10:11.000 In 2014, Vince taught him or had him take lessons to learn Mandarin so that he could go and appeal to the Chinese market.
00:10:19.000 Wait, Vince McMahon?
00:10:19.000 Yes.
00:10:19.000 What?
00:10:20.000 He's a genius.
00:10:20.000 Vince McMahon's a fucking genius.
00:10:22.000 That guy's a killer when it comes to making money, so I get him.
00:10:24.000 Wow.
00:10:25.000 He wanted to appeal to the Chinese market, so they gave him classes.
00:10:30.000 Look, it's a difficult thing to learn.
00:10:32.000 It's amazing how well he spoke it.
00:10:33.000 It's one of the most difficult languages.
00:10:35.000 A lot of people were like, wait, what is going on here?
00:10:38.000 That movie proves everything about what went wrong with America, with Hollywood, entertainment.
00:10:43.000 Vin Diesel begged to open that movie in China because all of their opening dollars come from China, Fast and Furious 9. First, I did a whole monologue about this, and I was like, do we really need nine?
00:10:54.000 That's like the first question.
00:10:55.000 I didn't even know.
00:10:57.000 Do we need nine?
00:10:58.000 I mean, look, the ones with The Rock, shout out to The Rock, are actually awesome.
00:11:01.000 This one doesn't have The Rock?
00:11:02.000 I don't know, actually.
00:11:05.000 Whatever F6 is where The Rock was in it, I love The Rock.
00:11:08.000 You were fine with the John Cena thing, but you draw the line at No Rock.
00:11:11.000 Yeah, No Rock?
00:11:12.000 How are you going to have Fast and Furious with No Rock?
00:11:14.000 It's a joke.
00:11:15.000 That's outrageous.
00:11:16.000 That's outrageous.
00:11:16.000 F9 makes all of its money in China.
00:11:18.000 And so what happens is that Hollywood...
00:11:21.000 The numbers are crazy.
00:11:21.000 It was $140 million or something like that.
00:11:23.000 This is the difference.
00:11:24.000 It was $160 million opening weekend.
00:11:27.000 134 of it was from China.
00:11:28.000 Exactly.
00:11:29.000 And so Hollywood and these companies know.
00:11:31.000 Universal Pictures, who was owned by NBC, who was owned by Comcast, all have business in China.
00:11:36.000 And Hollywood, Disney, and all the...
00:11:38.000 I mean, the Mulan thing.
00:11:39.000 That was insane.
00:11:40.000 When Mulan, at the end of the live-action Mulan...
00:11:43.000 They thanked the Chinese agency in the credit section, which is responsible for carrying out some of the Uyghur genocide in Xinjiang.
00:11:53.000 They thanked them openly in the credits, and they have never apologized for it.
00:11:56.000 They put it in the end of the credit section.
00:11:58.000 Thank you to the Turpan Security Agency or whatever, who they worked with when they were filming Mulan in China.
00:12:04.000 This is Disney, an American corporation.
00:12:06.000 And it's not just that.
00:12:07.000 It's because they have Disneyland Shanghai.
00:12:10.000 Disney has massive business in China.
00:12:13.000 All of their future outlooks and growth.
00:12:15.000 And look, I get it.
00:12:16.000 Their job is to make money and increase value to this shareholder.
00:12:20.000 And there's a billion people in China that basically maxed out market penetration whenever it comes to the US. But these are American companies.
00:12:27.000 We made these.
00:12:28.000 And Americans need to ask, is it cool that the richest and most powerful people in this country are sold out to China?
00:12:33.000 I mean, but here's the thing.
00:12:35.000 I don't even necessarily, like, obviously John Cena has his own personal agency.
00:12:39.000 I don't blame John.
00:12:40.000 The country's not about anything other than money.
00:12:43.000 I mean, we just abandon every value other than profit maximization and the bottom line.
00:12:49.000 That's what people need to understand about all this woke shit.
00:12:52.000 Yes.
00:12:52.000 It's really not about changing culture.
00:12:55.000 It's about money.
00:12:56.000 It's about power.
00:12:58.000 It's funny.
00:12:59.000 There's a big article in the New York Times today about inside an Amazon warehouse.
00:13:04.000 And Amazon was the first to say Black Lives Matter and put that banner up on their page and everything.
00:13:10.000 And look, I support a lot of goals of that movement.
00:13:13.000 But you read through this article and you find out, first of all, The way they treat their largely black and brown warehouse workers, I mean, it's despicable.
00:13:22.000 They intentionally make sure they cannot move up the ladder.
00:13:26.000 That's part of their business policy is if you're an hourly worker, you're not going to get promoted, and they try to force you out after three years because they think you're getting lazy.
00:13:35.000 So this is the company that can, on the surface level, say Black Lives Matter because they think that's good for their profit maximization and their brand and their shareholder value.
00:13:45.000 At the same time, what they're actually doing in real life, wildly different than that.
00:13:50.000 And they specifically target black and brown people?
00:13:53.000 Well, they target their warehouse workers.
00:13:55.000 So the warehouse workers are 50-some percent black and brown.
00:14:00.000 Management is overwhelmingly white and Asian.
00:14:03.000 I thought the whole thing about Amazon was that you could move up the ladder.
00:14:08.000 Walmart, who I'm also not a fan of, they actually promote from within.
00:14:13.000 So most Walmart managers start out as hourly employees.
00:14:16.000 So at least they have a track up.
00:14:17.000 And again, I'm not a fan of Walmart, okay?
00:14:20.000 Amazon intentionally, and this is what the New York Times revealed, they intentionally have a system because Bezos said he believes that these human beings are lazy and that after, you know, that they're going to do the bare minimum.
00:14:33.000 Was he quoted saying that?
00:14:37.000 I think there's a difference between lazy and having a shitty job.
00:14:43.000 You're treated like a robot and a cog day in and day out.
00:14:47.000 If you are a little bit slow on your task, you might get fired by a freaking app.
00:14:52.000 Well, let's explain to people who don't understand how it works over there.
00:14:57.000 Does anybody want to explain?
00:14:57.000 Yeah, I mean, they work in the warehouse.
00:14:59.000 Right, so they have phones that are on there.
00:15:01.000 Everyone's tracking your movement, steps, bathroom breaks as well.
00:15:04.000 So the warehouses are also very large.
00:15:06.000 So let's say you technically have a 20-minute break.
00:15:08.000 It might take you 10 minutes to actually walk to the break room and back, so you actually have, what, like a two-minute break already.
00:15:17.000 We're good to go.
00:15:38.000 They are basically going to become the employer of choice.
00:15:41.000 Whatever your grocery store or whatever was in your small town, these are the rural working class Americans.
00:15:47.000 This is their only job.
00:15:49.000 So when you have one company which has all of this overwhelming power over rural working Americans and even suburban Americans, because this is Amazon's strategy.
00:15:58.000 Dayton, Ohio is a good example.
00:16:00.000 Alec McGillis, he wrote a great book on Amazon, shout out to him, talked about how Dayton was like this Silicon Valley of America in the 1900s, you know, manufacturing, middle class jobs.
00:16:12.000 Now, Dayton's prized economic value comes from the fact that it's one day's drive from one third of the U.S. population.
00:16:19.000 So it's a great place for cardboard.
00:16:21.000 So everybody there is all just involved in creating cardboard and other Amazon information.
00:16:27.000 So the Amazonification, so to speak, or whatever, of America makes it so that, let's say 30 years ago, you grew up in your town, you may have to go to Walmart, H-E-B, I grew up here in Texas, Kroger as well, McDonald's, something like that.
00:16:41.000 Now, it's basically like McDonald's, Dairy Queen, and Amazon.
00:16:44.000 And when Amazon is the prime market employer, they are the sole determiner of market conditions, increasingly.
00:16:50.000 So it's Walmart and Amazon, which are number two.
00:16:52.000 And we're talking about millions of people.
00:16:55.000 Who are now working at this company.
00:16:57.000 So people are like, why do you guys talk so much about Amazon?
00:16:59.000 Because I can see the trends.
00:17:01.000 This company's not going anywhere.
00:17:03.000 Look, props to them.
00:17:04.000 I love Amazon.
00:17:05.000 I order a lot of stuff on Amazon.
00:17:07.000 But increasingly becoming aware of the price of what it takes to do overnight delivery to your house at 4 a.m.
00:17:13.000 in the morning Right.
00:17:23.000 Right.
00:17:27.000 Right.
00:17:28.000 Right.
00:17:36.000 And they admitted shit in bags.
00:17:38.000 That's where I draw the line.
00:17:39.000 I don't really care if a guy has to pee in a bottle, but if a gal has to pee in a dog bowl, I'm like, this seems wrong.
00:17:48.000 And this happened publicly.
00:17:49.000 I would like to click the button that's like, I'll pay a little bit more if you can promise me no driver had to shit in a bag in order to get this to me tomorrow.
00:17:57.000 We kind of glossed over this thing where you said that Jeff Bezos said that people were lazy.
00:18:01.000 So here's what the New York Times says.
00:18:03.000 Amazon's founder, Jeff Bezos, did not want hourly workers to stick around for long, viewing a large disgruntled workforce as a threat, this other executive recalled, who worked at Amazon but then left.
00:18:14.000 Company data showed that most employers became less eager over time, he said, and Mr. Bezos believed people were inherently lazy.
00:18:21.000 What he would say is that our nature as humans is to expend as little energy as possible to get what we want or need.
00:18:27.000 That was embedded throughout the business, from the ease of instant ordering to the pervasive use of data to get the most out of employees, so guaranteed wage increases stop after three years, and Amazon provided incentives for low-skilled employees to leave.
00:18:39.000 So every year they would offer associates thousands of dollars to resign.
00:18:43.000 They made sure that any position, they gave people sort of the illusion of promotions being available, but then there'd be one promotion available for hundreds of people.
00:18:54.000 And they very seldom Higher or higher management from within their own ranks.
00:19:02.000 It's totally class stratified as basically the bottom line.
00:19:06.000 And of course, lower classes in America are disproportionately black and brown.
00:19:09.000 It's not like they're specifically targeting black and brown people.
00:19:11.000 But you have one class of people that they see as worthy of doing the grunt work and shitting in the bag, and one class of people that they think is worthy of actually having the more intellectual jobs and running the place.
00:19:24.000 It's a really abhorrent way of viewing human beings, essentially.
00:19:28.000 This is part of the kind of, again, rot of America that I also think is reflected with the John Cena thing, etc.
00:19:34.000 It's like, you're certainly more of a capitalist than I am, but you can't have a country where the only frickin' value is money.
00:19:41.000 No.
00:19:45.000 We're good to go.
00:20:02.000 The problem is money's quantifiable, and happiness and love and camaraderie and friendship is not.
00:20:08.000 It's squishy.
00:20:09.000 You can't put it on a scale.
00:20:10.000 Put that quote back up again.
00:20:11.000 This kind of shit drives me nuts, and I can't believe they actually report this.
00:20:15.000 When it says it's been alleged that Bezos has barked out questions like, are you lazy or just incompetent at employees, and referred to the publishing industry as...
00:20:26.000 A sickly gazelle.
00:20:27.000 First of all, how the fuck does that get printed?
00:20:32.000 It's been alleged that he's barked out questions.
00:20:35.000 Unless you have a video of him saying that, shut the fuck up.
00:20:39.000 Because that kind of shit is nonsense.
00:20:43.000 I actually know Brad Stone a little bit.
00:20:45.000 Especially when it's not attributed.
00:20:48.000 This is different.
00:20:49.000 This isn't the New York Times article I was referencing, where they talk to the workers, some of these executives.
00:20:55.000 Who worked with Bezos went on the record, and then you can judge who's telling the truth here.
00:21:00.000 It's just one of those things.
00:21:01.000 Look, I'm most certain that that man values money in a very high and probably disproportionate way.
00:21:09.000 There's no way he doesn't, right?
00:21:11.000 And he's not really known to be very charitable, right?
00:21:13.000 Isn't that one of the knocks on him?
00:21:15.000 He doesn't give away a lot of money, and the ex is just throwing it around like it's a beach ball at a party.
00:21:21.000 I think she just announced another billion.
00:21:22.000 Good for her.
00:21:23.000 I mean, look, she's wearing like $40 billion.
00:21:25.000 She could keep five stashed away.
00:21:28.000 You won't even notice.
00:21:29.000 This is the problem I have, though, because to what Crystal was referencing.
00:21:32.000 And again, look, I'm more capitalist than Crystal, but I look at what's happening with Bezos and with Amazon and this unionization drive, which there was a recent failed unionization drive at one of their warehouses in Bessemer, Alabama.
00:21:45.000 So Bezos reportedly got pissed that politicians were shitting on Amazon.
00:21:51.000 And so I think it was Representative Mark Pocan tweeted out, like, Amazon workers are peeing in bottles.
00:21:56.000 And Amazon's actual Twitter account was like, you don't believe the peeing in bottles story, do you?
00:22:01.000 And he was like, yeah, I do.
00:22:03.000 And then all of these former Amazon employees and current started reporting official, like, company guidance around peeing and shitting in bags.
00:22:15.000 See, you don't really believe in the thing.
00:22:16.000 And then they had to go and correct it.
00:22:18.000 And they were like, actually, it's true.
00:22:21.000 Some of our workers actually do pee in bottles.
00:22:24.000 And a lot of this comes down to this.
00:22:26.000 Jeff Bezos, his wealth increased by $70 billion.
00:22:30.000 And I've heard Scott Galloway say this, who's actually...
00:22:33.000 I've actually heard this, which is that...
00:22:36.000 What is this?
00:22:37.000 Oh, this is incredible.
00:22:37.000 Oh, yeah, this is another good one.
00:22:39.000 So they recruit people to be fake Amazon employees, and anytime someone tweets something like, you know, what we're talking about here, they'll come in and be like, I'm an Amazon employee, and my name's Bob, and I love it.
00:22:50.000 This is my favorite.
00:22:52.000 Dude's perfect.
00:22:55.000 Oh my god.
00:22:55.000 It's fucking Dude Perfect.
00:22:57.000 It's Dude Perfect.
00:22:58.000 Is that a real person?
00:22:59.000 Dude Perfect.
00:23:00.000 He's famous on YouTube.
00:23:00.000 He's one of the biggest YouTubers.
00:23:02.000 He throws shit into footballs and stuff.
00:23:04.000 No, I know who those guys are.
00:23:05.000 That's him?
00:23:05.000 Yeah, and they used his face.
00:23:07.000 Oh my god, they used his face?
00:23:08.000 Yeah, so they didn't even do a good job.
00:23:10.000 OK4AT. With their troll aberrations.
00:23:13.000 Happy Amazon employee!
00:23:14.000 That's so crazy.
00:23:15.000 Oh, it's a mess.
00:23:16.000 Goodbye, Jamie.
00:23:17.000 But hold up.
00:23:18.000 Just to be cynical, how do you not know that this was someone who hates Amazon who does this as an obvious goof?
00:23:25.000 No, but they...
00:23:26.000 But you know what I'm saying?
00:23:26.000 Like, you're playing 3D chess.
00:23:28.000 The documents...
00:23:29.000 Ken Klippenstein, amazing journalist, who one of the reasons why he gets these stories is because he reaches down to the rank and file instead of the execs.
00:23:36.000 He had leaked to him The guidelines and the protocols of how to be an Amazon bot on Twitter, basically.
00:23:44.000 How to set up your handle, the types of things to say, what things not to engage with.
00:23:48.000 Do you remember when Howard Stern got busted doing that?
00:23:50.000 Did he?
00:23:50.000 I didn't know this.
00:23:51.000 Yeah, there was a conference.
00:23:54.000 He had a conference for all of his employees, and there's a video that got leaked.
00:23:58.000 Telling all the employees to make fake accounts and then tweet at celebrities that you want to be on Howard Stern.
00:24:05.000 You don't have your employees do that.
00:24:07.000 I do.
00:24:07.000 That's why I'm covering up right now.
00:24:09.000 I'm throwing him under the bus because I'm guilty of the same thing.
00:24:11.000 I thought that was common protocol.
00:24:12.000 No, I've never even advertised this show.
00:24:14.000 It's one of the things that I'm very happy about.
00:24:16.000 So I do have one more Amazon anecdote for you that Sagar was referencing.
00:24:20.000 So they've started, you know how Wayfair and other companies, they'll do like delivery and they'll assemble your shit for you, your furniture or whatever.
00:24:28.000 So Amazon's trying to compete with them and they're just taking the normal drivers.
00:24:31.000 They're not giving them any training in furniture assembly, like this isn't their specialty or whatever.
00:24:36.000 And they're just like, now do this also.
00:24:40.000 We're good to go.
00:24:53.000 Here's the allotments.
00:24:54.000 Amazon allotted 11 minutes and 15 seconds for two drivers to transport a 59-part ottoman to a customer's room of choice, unpack, and assemble it according to one schedule.
00:25:06.000 And this is like typical of the type of timing.
00:25:09.000 And it's not like there's no consequence if you don't meet that timeline.
00:25:12.000 If you don't meet that timeline routinely, you're fired.
00:25:14.000 So this is the type of demands that they put on workers that are just completely unrealistic.
00:25:20.000 So, I don't even remember what an ottoman is.
00:25:22.000 It's like drawers and stuff?
00:25:23.000 It's like the thing that you put your feet on.
00:25:26.000 Oh, okay.
00:25:26.000 Also, a 59-part ottoman does sound really crazy.
00:25:28.000 It seems like a very elaborate ottoman, but to put it together in 11 minutes and unpack it and deliver it and all that is crazy.
00:25:35.000 How do you put it together?
00:25:37.000 I'm a little confused.
00:25:39.000 I think the guys, what they do is they drop it off and then they unbox it and put it all together for you.
00:25:43.000 Like, you can pay like $60 extra.
00:25:45.000 I've done this before.
00:25:45.000 So just put the legs on it?
00:25:47.000 There was a photo in that one.
00:25:50.000 I'm not sure, Jamie, if you can find it.
00:25:51.000 But when you say 59 pieces, how many of them are screws?
00:25:53.000 I have no idea.
00:25:55.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:25:55.000 Yeah, that's a good question.
00:25:57.000 But still, 11 minutes is ridiculous.
00:25:59.000 Crazy.
00:25:59.000 They had some other examples here, too.
00:26:01.000 11 minutes to deliver and assemble a 234-pound dining table is another example.
00:26:10.000 44 seconds.
00:26:12.000 Three minutes and 44 seconds for drivers to transport.
00:26:16.000 So they have to bring this mattress there, bring it to the customer's room of choice, unpack it and install it.
00:26:22.000 Mattress that weighs 104 pounds.
00:26:24.000 How many minutes you get for that?
00:26:25.000 Three minutes.
00:26:27.000 That's crazy.
00:26:28.000 Crazy!
00:26:29.000 Yeah.
00:26:29.000 What if it's a big house?
00:26:31.000 What if they have stairs?
00:26:32.000 Then you're fucked.
00:26:32.000 Then you're fired.
00:26:33.000 Then you're shitting in a bag so that you can make it to the next one.
00:26:36.000 I mean, seriously, that's what it is.
00:26:37.000 That was the thing that Amazon, what I wanted you to get into is the fact that they get timed.
00:26:40.000 Like, say, if someone orders something, you have to get, like, someone orders a bicycle pump.
00:26:46.000 You have to get to that bicycle pump and put it in a box.
00:26:49.000 That's right.
00:26:49.000 And they track all of your movements.
00:26:52.000 Yeah.
00:26:52.000 All of that is tracked.
00:26:54.000 And if you don't make it, it's not like a human being even bothers to tell you you're fired.
00:26:58.000 You just get a notification on your fucking tracker.
00:27:00.000 Right.
00:27:00.000 So what is the solution to something like that?
00:27:03.000 It seems like when you start putting money as the most important thing above the health and the happiness of the people that work for you, what is the solution?
00:27:11.000 And is the problem...
00:27:14.000 Stockholders.
00:27:15.000 There's a problem in the fact that this is a public company, and so there's a lot of different people that get a chance to...
00:27:21.000 They have a say because the ultimate duty is to make sure that the company continues to make more money every year.
00:27:28.000 No one's happy with just things being flat.
00:27:30.000 No one's satisfied.
00:27:38.000 Yeah.
00:27:52.000 Now, the problem, though, right here with Amazon is Amazon is virulently anti-union.
00:27:57.000 They will basically do anything they possibly...
00:27:59.000 And this is basically an official Bezos policy.
00:28:01.000 Like, we will not negotiate on unions.
00:28:04.000 They threw everything they possibly could at the Bessemer election.
00:28:07.000 And look, I mean, they did win, and that's the reason why they raised their wage to like $15 an hour, or I think it's $17 an hour now.
00:28:14.000 And they're like, we have the best healthcare and all this is because it's basically like, you're gonna get this, but don't you goddamn dare unionize.
00:28:21.000 And it's not just Amazon.
00:28:22.000 Walmart, I think, just recently, they said they're going to give all of their employees a free Samsung phone, but it's like 729,000 employees.
00:28:32.000 And buried within the stuff is that you're going to be tracked when you get that phone.
00:28:36.000 Now the phone is with you, and that's the company phone.
00:28:39.000 And the company phone is going to collect all of this data, exactly as you're talking about.
00:28:43.000 You only have 15 seconds in order to go and get this and place it into the bin, which is the average time.
00:28:49.000 And, oh, you have sciatica?
00:28:50.000 Fuck you.
00:28:51.000 Oh, you have your leg is broken or like you're in a boot or something because you were injured on the job?
00:28:56.000 Fuck you.
00:28:57.000 I once read this Daily Beast story, which was horrific, where it aggregated like a FOIA thing of all of the suicide calls from Amazon warehouses.
00:29:06.000 So it's like, we got another one over here at the plant.
00:29:09.000 They're like, we got another one.
00:29:11.000 They're like, oh, you know, somebody just jumped.
00:29:13.000 They're like, oh, this guy's insane.
00:29:14.000 Now, look, a lot of people work in Amazon plans, so it's not like there's a lot of numbers and stuff here.
00:29:18.000 And I'm not just singling out Amazon because actually, like I was explaining, they're the top of the labor market.
00:29:26.000 The problem with our labor market is that our current workforce does not have enough power to negotiate with the shareholder class.
00:29:32.000 We solved this in the 1920s and 30s.
00:29:36.000 We had a whole fight about this in our politics around unions and worker power and wages.
00:29:41.000 I saw...
00:29:43.000 I saw a politician, I can't even remember who it was, talking about this with relation to Uber, where they're like, well, they can just go and they can leave if they can just leave and go work somewhere else.
00:29:53.000 But in many cases, like I'm explaining with Amazon, if you work in a town where the only thing you can do is work at the warehouse, you don't have a lot of power.
00:30:02.000 Right.
00:30:02.000 We have to go back to a scenario where workers have some power in negotiation.
00:30:08.000 Look, I think shareholder capitalism has grown amok.
00:30:11.000 We have a lot of problems.
00:30:12.000 That being said, there's a lot, obviously, to the engine of why we are the preeminent world economy and the preeminent society.
00:30:18.000 The problem is it's become unchecked.
00:30:20.000 Is that basically 1975, 1980s and so onward, the shareholder march, that's what led us to the China problem.
00:30:28.000 Wall Street and the shareholder class are the ones, they knew that it was going to screw working class jobs here in the US. They're the ones who pushed for more free trade with China.
00:30:40.000 And then the political class are the ones who said, not only is shit going to be cheaper, because that was the trade-off.
00:30:45.000 They're like, shit's going to be cheaper in America.
00:30:47.000 Congratulations, it's all cheaper.
00:30:48.000 We also lost our entire middle class, especially in the industrial Midwest.
00:30:52.000 But China's going to become more liberal and free and open.
00:30:56.000 And that was a total failure.
00:30:57.000 Instead, we have imported Chinese autocracy to our country.
00:31:01.000 Fucking John Cena, LeBron James, and James Harden are on the side of the CCP over their own citizens.
00:31:08.000 Shaq is the only guy who spoke up for Daryl Morey whenever it came to Shaq!
00:31:13.000 He's like the face of America.
00:31:15.000 It's totally crazy.
00:31:17.000 The Chinese understand us better than we do in some ways because they get that money's the weak spot.
00:31:23.000 And so you asked what the answer is.
00:31:24.000 I mean, look, it's not straightforward, but basically there's two pieces.
00:31:29.000 There's a policy piece that Sagar's talking about.
00:31:31.000 Giving workers, rebalancing the scales.
00:31:33.000 There used to be a balance on the scales where workers that had more power within the workplace.
00:31:37.000 You had fewer of these gigantic firms that just control the entire market.
00:31:42.000 So there's a policy piece here that's extraordinarily important.
00:31:46.000 There's also a societal choice.
00:31:48.000 Like, do we want to put We're good to go.
00:32:08.000 The whole structure of society is basically set up to cater to, frankly, people like us who are doing well and we want to have everything at our fingertips as cheap as possible, as soon as possible, every experience, etc., etc.
00:32:20.000 And it's become wildly unbalanced so that...
00:32:23.000 If not a majority, close to a majority of the population, it really is very hard to live.
00:32:29.000 Housing prices are going insanely up.
00:32:33.000 So the idea of a working class family affording a home anywhere in America is just wildly out of reach.
00:32:38.000 That's the one way that you can basically build wealth in America.
00:32:42.000 You have no choice in terms of employers, so if you hate Amazon or they fire you or whatever, you're fucked because there's nothing else in your town because everything else has been sucked out to China.
00:32:51.000 Especially during the coronavirus pandemic.
00:32:53.000 And they're the only ones hiring!
00:32:54.000 It was a disaster!
00:32:55.000 A disaster!
00:32:56.000 So many businesses are gone and so many big corporations have gotten bigger.
00:33:00.000 100%.
00:33:00.000 It's really scary.
00:33:02.000 We all saw this coming at the very beginning.
00:33:06.000 We knew it was going to be a bonanza for the people who already had everything and that's exactly what happened.
00:33:12.000 I don't think it's just us.
00:33:13.000 I think they knew it too.
00:33:15.000 100%.
00:33:15.000 This is one of the reasons why the really skeptical people, the people that are very cynical about things, think that some of the lockdown was on purpose and that what people were trying to do Was trying to accentuate the power that these big corporations had.
00:33:31.000 See, I think it's more of a failure.
00:33:34.000 I dissent in that I think we needed to make sure we got the virus under control and all those things.
00:33:40.000 But at the beginning there was a false choice that was made.
00:33:43.000 There was this false choice where they said, well, you can either have your job or you can have lockdown.
00:33:48.000 Well, we didn't have to do it that way.
00:33:49.000 There was a possibility of just, hey, listen, backstop people's payrolls, keep them attached to their jobs.
00:33:54.000 If we had done that from the beginning, we would have spent so much less money than we ultimately spent.
00:33:58.000 That's part of the problem, but the other problem was essential businesses.
00:34:01.000 Deciding which businesses are essential, deciding that Walmart's essential but a small restaurant is not.
00:34:06.000 That kind of shit is crazy.
00:34:09.000 It's because the Walmarts of the world have power.
00:34:11.000 Exactly, that's what I'm saying.
00:34:12.000 Yeah, that's what it was.
00:34:14.000 Absolutely.
00:34:15.000 They had to know that some of this was going to result in businesses going under, and that was going to result in their market share growing.
00:34:22.000 Absolutely.
00:34:23.000 That's where people are cynical and conspiracy-minded.
00:34:26.000 They look at this and they say, this is almost like a calculated attack.
00:34:30.000 I wish it was calculated.
00:34:31.000 I think it's worse.
00:34:32.000 I think that it was Trump and it was culture war.
00:34:36.000 It became becoming pro lockdown became so we live in D.C. We had like we had the highest mass compliance in the country and our city was crazy.
00:34:45.000 It was until Fauci came out and said that you can't you can wear a mask outside.
00:34:49.000 Don't have to wear a mask outside.
00:34:50.000 Everyone was double masking in my neighborhood.
00:34:53.000 I live in like the heart of white liberal America.
00:34:56.000 And what really has happened is that people's brains rotted under Trump.
00:35:00.000 And so when Trump was anti-lockdown, short circuit, it's over.
00:35:04.000 There's no discussion.
00:35:05.000 That's the Wuhan lab leak.
00:35:06.000 Exactly the same thing.
00:35:09.000 100%.
00:35:09.000 If Trump says it, it's...
00:35:12.000 It must be false.
00:35:13.000 Lockdown?
00:35:13.000 Bullshit.
00:35:13.000 Did you guys see the Jon Stewart rant?
00:35:16.000 We just saw it this morning.
00:35:17.000 It was incredible.
00:35:18.000 Wait, I haven't seen it yet.
00:35:20.000 Fucking play it.
00:35:21.000 Play it.
00:35:22.000 I literally just saw it this morning.
00:35:23.000 Stephen Colbert, right.
00:35:25.000 And Colbert tries to jump in and stop him.
00:35:27.000 Really?
00:35:28.000 And he plows over him.
00:35:29.000 Colbert, who's a Catholic.
00:35:31.000 Oh, Colbert used to be so good.
00:35:33.000 The old show was fucking brilliant.
00:35:34.000 Yeah, because he was a parody.
00:35:35.000 And now he's the real person.
00:35:38.000 He's like this pure Biden lib.
00:35:40.000 I'm like, what happened to you?
00:35:41.000 It's yuck.
00:35:41.000 It makes me really sad.
00:35:42.000 It's yuck.
00:35:42.000 Yes, indeed.
00:35:43.000 But listen, this is a big part of the problem with Hollywood in general, is that you really can't stray outside the ideology.
00:35:49.000 You have one ideology, and that ideology is crippling the entire city of Hollywood.
00:35:55.000 Let's hear this, because when Jon Stewart goes off, it's fucking genius.
00:36:00.000 And he's saying what everyone has been saying, but he did it in a brilliantly comedic fashion.
00:36:07.000 This guy's a genius, Jon Stewart, honestly.
00:36:09.000 He's such a fucking great guy.
00:36:11.000 And because he's...
00:36:13.000 The guy from The Daily Show, because everyone knows he's progressive, and always has been.
00:36:18.000 He's like, he is the perfect guy to get this out.
00:36:21.000 But you know, before we play this, the thing about him is, yes, he's always progressive, but he was always willing to take shots and call out hypocrisy wherever he saw it.
00:36:30.000 So you knew what his ideology was, but he did not pull punches.
00:36:34.000 And that was why people loved him.
00:36:36.000 It also made his points on the right much more valid, because you knew he was taking shots at the left, too.
00:36:42.000 100%.
00:36:42.000 That's what people don't understand at CNN. If you only attack the people that are on the right, no one listens to you.
00:36:49.000 If the moral of every single story is Trump is bad, certainly at some point he did something that was worthy of praise, right?
00:36:58.000 And Fox News is the same thing.
00:37:00.000 The moral of every story is Democrats are destroying the country.
00:37:03.000 It's like...
00:37:04.000 Well, they exist in soundbites.
00:37:06.000 They exist in soundbites, and they don't understand that people view them as a whole.
00:37:09.000 So people view everything that they say, and they don't understand that when you do that over and over again, people get cynical.
00:37:14.000 It's like, we see your game here.
00:37:16.000 This is like the most obvious thing ever.
00:37:17.000 Let's play this, because it's so goddamn good.
00:37:21.000 Scoot a little in there, Jamie.
00:37:22.000 Yeah.
00:37:24.000 But I'm gonna get something.
00:37:28.000 Honestly, these people did not take good care of themselves during the pandemic.
00:37:32.000 Last time, well, actually, the first time we talked during COVID, I was still in South Carolina.
00:37:39.000 That's right.
00:37:40.000 You were locked down.
00:37:41.000 I was locked down down there, and the family, Evie and the kids, were the actual crew.
00:37:46.000 That's right.
00:37:46.000 That's how we were doing it.
00:37:48.000 Scoot up a little.
00:37:49.000 Scoot forward a little bit.
00:37:51.000 It was so cool.
00:37:52.000 So I will say this.
00:37:56.000 And I honestly mean this.
00:37:58.000 I think we owe a great debt of gratitude to science.
00:38:04.000 Science has in many ways helped ease the suffering of this pandemic.
00:38:13.000 Which was more than likely caused by science.
00:38:19.000 Lily Colbert's hitting back.
00:38:21.000 He's like, no, no!
00:38:23.000 And that's kind of...
00:38:25.000 Hold on one second.
00:38:26.000 No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:38:29.000 Is he doing a spit take?
00:38:31.000 It's coffee.
00:38:32.000 I wouldn't do that to you.
00:38:34.000 What do you mean by that?
00:38:36.000 There's a chance that this was created in a lab.
00:38:40.000 There's an investigation.
00:38:40.000 A chance?
00:38:43.000 If there's evidence, I'd love to hear it.
00:38:46.000 There's a novel respiratory coronavirus overtaking Wuhan, China.
00:38:51.000 What do we do?
00:38:52.000 Oh, you know who we could ask?
00:38:53.000 The Wuhan novel respiratory coronavirus lab.
00:38:58.000 The disease is the same name as the lab.
00:39:03.000 That's just a little too weird.
00:39:05.000 Don't you think?
00:39:05.000 And then they ask those scientists, they're like, how did this...
00:39:08.000 So wait a minute.
00:39:09.000 You work at the Wuhan Respiratory Coronavirus Lab.
00:39:12.000 How did this happen?
00:39:13.000 And they're like, a pangolin kissed a turtle.
00:39:17.000 And you're like, no.
00:39:20.000 The name of your lab, if you look at the name...
00:39:23.000 Look at me.
00:39:24.000 Let me see your business card.
00:39:26.000 Show me your business card.
00:39:28.000 Oh, I work at the coronavirus lab in Wuhan.
00:39:34.000 Oh, because there's a coronavirus loose in Wuhan.
00:39:37.000 How did that happen?
00:39:38.000 Maybe a bat flew into the cloaca of a turkey.
00:39:46.000 Then it sneezed into my chili, and now we all have corona.
00:39:51.000 Like, come on.
00:39:51.000 Okay, okay.
00:39:52.000 What about this?
00:39:53.000 What about this?
00:39:54.000 Listen to this.
00:39:55.000 Wait a second.
00:39:56.000 Co-bear, get out of the fucking way.
00:39:57.000 Let him rant.
00:39:58.000 Oh, my God.
00:40:00.000 There's been an outbreak of chocolatey goodness near Hershey, Pennsylvania.
00:40:05.000 What do you think happened?
00:40:07.000 Oh, I don't know.
00:40:08.000 Maybe a steam shovel made it with a cocoa bean.
00:40:12.000 Or it's the...
00:40:14.000 Chocolate Factory!
00:40:16.000 Maybe that's it!
00:40:17.000 That could be.
00:40:20.000 That could be.
00:40:23.000 He's so uncomfortable.
00:40:25.000 That could be.
00:40:27.000 By the way, I gave them all tuberculosis.
00:40:30.000 That could very well be.
00:40:33.000 And Anthony Fauci and Francis Collins and NIH. I don't want to hear that guy.
00:40:37.000 Was he going to cover for Fauci?
00:40:39.000 He's looking into it now.
00:40:41.000 Just stop.
00:40:41.000 Oh, now he's looking into it.
00:40:42.000 Yeah, now he's looking into it.
00:40:43.000 Yeah, but that was the other thing that was crazy, the differences between the way people on the right and the left were looking at those emails, the Fauci emails that got leaked.
00:40:51.000 Yes, that's such a great point.
00:40:52.000 So many people were saying, like, the fact that what hellscape world we live in, where anyone could look at those emails and think that Fauci is a villain, is so insane and shows you where we're at right now.
00:41:06.000 Hold the fuck on!
00:41:07.000 You've got emails where this guy is saying that masks don't work.
00:41:11.000 In February.
00:41:13.000 Yes, while he's been telling everybody you have to mask up.
00:41:16.000 You've got emails where he's saying, hey, is this coming from a lab?
00:41:21.000 He's talking to people.
00:41:22.000 And here's the thing, no one is above reproach.
00:41:27.000 Right?
00:41:27.000 And the minute that you buy into this, like, great man theory, it leads to some fucking ugly places.
00:41:33.000 Fauci just recently went on MSNBC, did you see this?
00:41:37.000 And was like, criticizing me is the same as attacking science.
00:41:43.000 I think he even used the third person.
00:41:47.000 Criticizing Dr. Fauci is the same as criticizing science.
00:41:53.000 The reality, of course, is that as it looks increasingly likely that the lab leak theory was correct, asking those questions isn't harming science.
00:42:04.000 That's bolstering science.
00:42:06.000 That's bolstering the neutral quest for truth.
00:42:10.000 That's all any of us are talking about here.
00:42:11.000 And there was a scientist in the emails that was reaching out to him saying, when you examine this closely, there's aspects of this virus that seem to be engineered.
00:42:20.000 Yes.
00:42:21.000 Inconsistent with evolutionary theory.
00:42:23.000 They communicated, then that same scientist changed his tune publicly.
00:42:28.000 Then, when all the emails came out, deleted his Twitter account, and now he's moving to the And what's even worse, Joe, is he was actually the person who was the ringleader of the Nature magazine piece, I think it was March of 2020, saying that coronavirus definitively did not come from the lab.
00:42:44.000 So in January 31st, 2020, sends Fauci an email saying that the coronavirus genome is not consistent with evolutionary theory.
00:42:51.000 A.K.A. fucking man-made.
00:42:53.000 A.K.A. fucking man-made.
00:42:55.000 I didn't get freaked out until the guy from the WHO would not say Taiwan.
00:43:00.000 Remember that?
00:43:01.000 That was early on.
00:43:03.000 That's when I got freaked out.
00:43:04.000 I was like, what the fuck is going on?
00:43:06.000 Because when you won't even say the name of a country because you're worried about offending China, and we're supposed to believe that these people are completely unbiased, I was like, I got scared.
00:43:17.000 Well, it's just as crazy.
00:43:18.000 We're not getting all the information.
00:43:19.000 There's no way we are.
00:43:20.000 And it's not just China.
00:43:21.000 And this is the theory about the thing about the lab leak and why I actually want to de-culture.
00:43:24.000 You had Josh Rogan on and he did some excellent job with this.
00:43:27.000 That guy's amazing.
00:43:28.000 What he expertly shows is if this is true, the lab leak hypothesis is true, Yes, the Chinese covered it up.
00:43:34.000 Guess what?
00:43:35.000 The Chinese are liars, and they covered up SARS, and they've covered up basically everything that's come out of their country for the last like 30 years.
00:43:40.000 That's not a shocker.
00:43:41.000 The shocker is Dr. Anthony Fauci, 2017, reverses the ban on gain-of-function research, directs this funding to EcoHealth Alliance, Dr. Peter Daszak, who then gives it to the Wuhan Institute of Virology for the study of novel bat coronaviruses.
00:43:57.000 And then when the pandemic turns around, we take Dr. Peter Daszak as the only American To join the World Health Organization's investigation team into whether coronavirus leaked from a lab.
00:44:09.000 And on 60 Minutes, I forget who was interviewing him, she goes, well, wait, so how did you verify it?
00:44:14.000 Did you just ask them?
00:44:15.000 And he goes, well, what else can we do?
00:44:17.000 Because he's also half British.
00:44:18.000 And that's how he goes, well, what else can we do?
00:44:21.000 Oh, we could read emails.
00:44:24.000 We could also see that Peter Daszak, as of two days ago, has been caught lying.
00:44:28.000 He said there were no live bats...
00:44:31.000 Inside of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Sky News Australia just revealed a 2017 video that bats were present inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and the deputy director says, before this, China had no experience in BSL-4,
00:44:46.000 that's the highest level safety for a laboratory, but we have been here, and I... I don't want to misquote him, but he said something along the lines of creating new viruses, synthesizing new viruses.
00:44:59.000 And what Fauci and Dr. Xi, who is the head of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, they're playing fucking games.
00:45:05.000 Fauci and Rand Paul, when Rand Paul was pressing him, he was like, we did not fund gain-of-function research.
00:45:12.000 He's trying to define it as explicitly what is on the record of him funding.
00:45:17.000 Dr. Xi is the same thing.
00:45:19.000 We were not doing gain-of-function research.
00:45:21.000 This is actually, this is amazing.
00:45:24.000 I don't know if you caught.
00:45:25.000 She did an email interview with the New York Times, which was mostly, I mean, it was just, you know, the standard, like, state party line from China.
00:45:32.000 But they asked her about gain-of-function research.
00:45:35.000 And I'm sure your listeners mostly know that gain-of-function research is basically modifying these to see...
00:45:41.000 How can we make these pathogens more dangerous?
00:45:45.000 And it's in and of itself very dangerous because these things do leak from labs relatively routinely.
00:45:51.000 And she says, we were not doing gain-of-function research because what we were doing wasn't making it more virulent or dangerous.
00:45:59.000 It was seeing if it could jump from species to species.
00:46:03.000 I'm sorry, isn't that like the definition of making it more dangerous for us, seeing if you can make it jump into our species?
00:46:10.000 Like, that seems like that's pretty dangerous.
00:46:13.000 So they're trying to play these games saying it's not technically gain-of-function research.
00:46:16.000 How does Fauci get away with standing there under oath and saying...
00:46:20.000 Media, right?
00:46:21.000 It's all media pressure, which is, he's the god.
00:46:23.000 It's the anti-Trump derangement syndrome, right?
00:46:27.000 Fauci was put up as like the anti-Trump guy and he became this liberal icon.
00:46:32.000 I mean, there are these signs in Washington, D.C. of people's yards.
00:46:37.000 I don't know if you have them here, but it's literally his face on a sign and like, thank you, Dr. Fauci.
00:46:43.000 This is what we're dealing with, Joe.
00:46:45.000 This is what we're dealing with.
00:46:46.000 People are terrible.
00:46:47.000 Hero worship, right?
00:46:48.000 And again, no one is above reproach.
00:46:51.000 Every human being is flawed, and especially when you're in that kind of position of power and you have certain incentives, like, you have to ask questions about these things.
00:46:58.000 But there was another element, too.
00:47:00.000 And this was, frankly, an ingenious play by the media and the scientific community, is not only was it, oh, Trump and his band of wackos are the ones that are promoting this theory, but also that this theory is somehow racist.
00:47:14.000 And the moment that the lab leak theory was pegged as racist, that's when it really became toxic for anyone in the mainstream to ask questions about because you don't want to be pegged as like, oh, well, you're just pursuing this racist conspiracy theory.
00:47:27.000 And my thought has always been from the beginning, like, first of all, we just need the answer, like, neutrally to look at what actually happened here.
00:47:36.000 But second of all, if we're playing the which is more racist game, it seemed way worse to me when people were like, oh, Chinese people eat bats and that's disgusting and they're so weird and that's how we all got this pandemic.
00:47:47.000 That seemed to me way more problematic than the idea that a lab that, by the way, the USA is funding, that something leaked accidentally from that lab.
00:47:56.000 So that was really the thing that put this all off the table was this strategic weaponization of, you know, what is a very real problem of alleging racism.
00:48:05.000 It's the scientific community teamed up with them.
00:48:08.000 Well, basically, they got the luckiest fucking break of their lives that Trump was president because they teamed up with the media and they made it so that it was racist to question.
00:48:17.000 Even recently, the lead New York Times reporter on COVID tweeted and then deleted.
00:48:21.000 Are we ever going?
00:48:21.000 Someday we will acknowledge the racist origins of the lab leak theory.
00:48:25.000 New York Times reporter was in charge of COVID. Right.
00:48:28.000 This is still in their brains.
00:48:29.000 They have brain worms because of Trump.
00:48:31.000 And I was telling Crystal, because of Trump, 35% of this popular, you could have smoking gun proof.
00:48:36.000 Their lab leak theory was true.
00:48:37.000 35% of the population, hardcore Democrats who watch MSNBC, they'll never believe it.
00:48:41.000 They'll always say that it's racist.
00:48:43.000 And here's the problem, which this is the same problem with all Trump stuff.
00:48:47.000 If this is true, we should be having a national conversation around gain-of-function research.
00:48:53.000 We should have a Wuhan Commission around gain-of-function research.
00:48:56.000 Instead, they want to do a January 6th commission in order to reconstruct the events of a day where we all fucking know what happened.
00:49:01.000 Okay?
00:49:02.000 It's over.
00:49:02.000 We know.
00:49:03.000 I'm not saying it wasn't terrible.
00:49:04.000 But that is not what the driving conversation—what is it?
00:49:07.000 It's June 15th.
00:49:08.000 Why are we still talking about January 6th?
00:49:11.000 We should be talking right now.
00:49:13.000 Did U.S. government funds explicitly directed towards novel coronavirus research, which led to the worst pandemic in a century and cost the global economy trillions of dollars?
00:49:23.000 And as Josh is the first one to point out, the response from the scientific community has been we need more gain-of-function research, $1.2 billion to the global VIROM project.
00:49:32.000 And so once again, the scientific community wanted all of this covered up.
00:49:37.000 They teamed up with the media to protect their funding resources.
00:49:40.000 Because what people forget, Fauci is actually the king of funding.
00:49:44.000 The National Institute of Infectious Disease, I believe, that's NIAD, that's what he's in charge of.
00:49:49.000 They are the primary funding authority.
00:49:51.000 For huge amounts of the scientific community.
00:49:54.000 We had Dr. Brett Weinstein on our show, and he was explaining this to us, which is that if you're inside of that research system, you need access to those dollars to keep your lab afloat.
00:50:04.000 My dad is a professor at Texas A&M, and so I know a little bit about funding and the way that you keep your tenure positions in a lot of these universities is you have to continually bring funding in.
00:50:15.000 So both my parents are professors there, and so a lot of the professorial game Is getting money from granting institutions.
00:50:21.000 Now, in the science community, it's from the National Science Foundation, it's from the National Institute, or whatever, Fauci is the head of the National Institute of Health.
00:50:29.000 They have to keep the dollars flowing.
00:50:30.000 So if you admit this is gain-of-function research, you start asking questions, the NIH and Fauci can fucking cut you off.
00:50:37.000 Like, this is a whole business.
00:50:38.000 It's a multi-billion dollar.
00:50:40.000 I mean, it's an industry because it's about research.
00:50:43.000 And look, the core theme of our show is like, follow the money, right?
00:50:46.000 So follow the money.
00:50:47.000 Where's the money lead?
00:50:48.000 At least Fauci, Peter Daszak.
00:50:50.000 And it's like, look, I don't want to sound crazy, but this is basically like a global conspiracy in terms of the Chinese government.
00:50:55.000 Yeah, total cover-up.
00:50:56.000 It's a total cover-up of the Chinese government, the US government, the guy who was on the fucking TV, and we were all supposed to trust this entire time, and it turns out he's the guy who reversed the ban in the first place in order to take advantage of the chaos under Trump, and I know it's so complicated,
00:51:13.000 and regular people...
00:51:14.000 This is what bothers me most about the mainstream media.
00:51:17.000 People want to live their lives and they want answers.
00:51:19.000 And increasingly, they know they are being lied to, but they do not have the time because it's our job in order to explain all this about Peter Daszak and the World Health Organization, what is gain-of-function research, how Washington actually works, the global funding structures, etc.
00:51:34.000 People are being lied to.
00:51:35.000 They have been completely lied to on the story.
00:51:38.000 I do think this is the biggest failure since Iraq WMD. I think this is WMD 2.0.
00:51:43.000 Well, and there's a couple things that are really important about it.
00:51:46.000 I mean, number one, just knowing how the pandemic started so we can avoid it in the future.
00:51:50.000 That would be a good thing.
00:51:52.000 But number two, it really does reveal the brokenness of the media and the way that they were complicit here, the way that they actually bought the lies because they were viewing everything through this culture war lens.
00:52:06.000 Rather than just looking for and searching for the facts.
00:52:08.000 So they looked at, okay, I know Dr. Fauci.
00:52:12.000 I've been talking to him for years.
00:52:13.000 I have this relationship with him and I trust him.
00:52:16.000 And on the other side, we have these crazy kooks.
00:52:18.000 So I'm not even going to dig any further.
00:52:20.000 I'm just going to assume that what these people are saying is correct.
00:52:23.000 And again, you layer on the charge of racism and it makes a very potent brew.
00:52:26.000 So it shows the way that these facts Failures and vulnerabilities within the media can lead to wildly misleading the entire population for a year on what, I mean, you'd have to say this was one of the most important questions of the entire year,
00:52:41.000 and they just were absolutely complicit in a total cover-up where you couldn't even talk about it.
00:52:47.000 Well, it's also, there's no Democrats that are questioning Fauci the way that Rand Paul is or Senator Kennedy.
00:52:54.000 No one else is doing that.
00:52:56.000 Because they're in the same boat.
00:52:58.000 They don't want to be branded as racist, and this happened.
00:53:00.000 At this point in time, it's not about Chinese people anymore.
00:53:03.000 It's about Fauci and Daszak.
00:53:06.000 How is it racist to ask them what they knew?
00:53:09.000 But I think it's also because Fauci has achieved such hero status.
00:53:14.000 Among a lot of the Democratic base.
00:53:16.000 But don't you think that that's teetering, almost Cuomo-like right now?
00:53:20.000 I actually don't.
00:53:21.000 I really don't.
00:53:22.000 These people, Cuomo's approval rating amongst Dems in New York is like 65%.
00:53:25.000 You know what I mean?
00:53:28.000 He actually said something logical yesterday.
00:53:30.000 Oh really?
00:53:31.000 What was that?
00:53:32.000 Someone was talking to him about, what do we do about the unvaccinated people?
00:53:35.000 And he goes, I'm vaccinated.
00:53:38.000 Are you vaccinated?
00:53:39.000 If you're vaccinated, don't worry about it.
00:53:42.000 Yeah, thank That's what he said.
00:53:43.000 And everybody's like, wait a minute, what the fuck did he just say?
00:53:45.000 Here, I'll send it to you, Jamie.
00:53:46.000 Because it's pretty funny because he's actually making sense, which is kind of hilarious.
00:53:52.000 What's fascinating, I think, around all of that is because you're seeing the price of the culture war in real time.
00:53:57.000 And you're seeing exactly how much damage it can do to this country whenever you have the media sold out in this way.
00:54:06.000 Donald McNeil, who actually got canceled, he got canceled because he said the N-word on a high school trip as a whole.
00:54:13.000 Yeah, I know that story.
00:54:14.000 Because someone called somebody that, and he said, did this person say that word?
00:54:19.000 And because of that, he got cancelled.
00:54:21.000 Because of talking.
00:54:23.000 Let's hear this, because it's kind of hilarious.
00:54:25.000 Because you have the vaccine.
00:54:27.000 I am vaccinated.
00:54:29.000 You may not be vaccinated, but you don't pose a risk to me because I am vaccinated.
00:54:38.000 So if you are vaccinated, What are you worrying about?
00:54:44.000 Now the only question is the effective rate of the vaccine, which is 80, 90 percent, whatever it is.
00:54:52.000 So if you're concerned about that, get a vaccine.
00:54:56.000 Well, there'll be unvaccinated people.
00:54:59.000 That's their problem.
00:55:00.000 Thank you.
00:55:01.000 This is crazy.
00:55:01.000 This is crazy.
00:55:02.000 He's talking logic.
00:55:04.000 Trump is gone, man.
00:55:05.000 Everything's normal again.
00:55:09.000 This is the thing that I hated around this whole pandemic is like, and Trump definitely made all of this worse with the culture war and like the whole like the anti mask stance and all this.
00:55:19.000 You have people who built up identities around whatever their pandemic era choices were.
00:55:25.000 Yes.
00:55:25.000 And then the media fed this, like, you know, the left media was like, the people who are, if you're having a hard time right now, the people to blame are those, like, crazy right-wing, like, your neighbor, your friend, your uncle down the street who has views that are different from yours.
00:55:38.000 And if you're listening to right-wing media, it's like the real villain are these people that are wearing double masks, et cetera, et cetera.
00:55:43.000 And it just feeds this...
00:55:45.000 This partisan hatred, this sectarian-like hatred between these two camps.
00:55:51.000 And then it makes it impossible to get to the facts of things like lab leak because everybody's just feeding it through these stupid cultural lens.
00:55:59.000 And meanwhile, the people like we were talking about before who profited and benefited off of all of this misery and pain and suffering They don't they face no scrutiny.
00:56:09.000 They get off scot-free because the media is so interested in the political class are so interested in making us all hate each other and blame each other for the things that are going wrong in the country.
00:56:19.000 This is what I was saying to the Donald McNeil thing, because I want people to know this.
00:56:22.000 He admitted after he was fired from The New York Times, he says, I did not believe the lab leak theory because Trump was saying it.
00:56:29.000 And here's what he said.
00:56:30.000 I have been friends with Dr. Fauci and Peter Daszak for a long time.
00:56:33.000 I have known them to never mislead me.
00:56:35.000 So I trusted them whenever it came to the lab leak.
00:56:38.000 He admitted it.
00:56:39.000 This is the former science reporter at the New York Times.
00:56:42.000 He was a star before the whole cancellation.
00:56:44.000 This is what it comes down to.
00:56:46.000 I mean, in a way, like props, Donald.
00:56:48.000 Like, thank you for telling the truth, which is that you were like, I didn't trust Trump when I trusted Peter Daszak and Fauci and them.
00:56:53.000 But it's all out there in the open.
00:56:55.000 And that's the culture.
00:56:56.000 That's the culture of the entire elite media class, which is they hate.
00:57:01.000 There was this poll we covered in, was it January?
00:57:04.000 I think it was post-January 6th, where it's like, what's the top concern for Democrats?
00:57:07.000 It was Trump voters.
00:57:09.000 And amongst, I think, GOP voters, it was illegal immigrants, and then it was Democrats.
00:57:13.000 No, it wasn't the top concern.
00:57:15.000 It was the number one threat to the country.
00:57:19.000 I thought it was white supremacy.
00:57:21.000 That's the same thing.
00:57:23.000 For Democrats, number one was Trump supporters, and I think white supremacy was probably like number two or three.
00:57:29.000 And for Republicans, it was immigration.
00:57:31.000 So again, like those people and liberals, right?
00:57:35.000 So it was...
00:57:37.000 Rather than thinking about the people who actually have power, who got wildly rich off of your suffering this year, it's like the media has conditioned everyone to just hate each other and think that your neighbor, your friend, your mom, whoever in your life that holds different views from you,
00:57:55.000 be they liberal or conservative, that they're the real problem.
00:57:58.000 They're the real threat.
00:57:59.000 Think about that language, the real threat.
00:58:01.000 It's not...
00:58:02.000 War or peace or climate change or anything like, or a natural disaster.
00:58:06.000 It's your neighbor.
00:58:07.000 And that situation cannot persist in America.
00:58:11.000 I mean, that doesn't lead to anywhere good at all if you actually think that that is the scariest thing to your life and, like, the future for your kids.
00:58:21.000 And it allows the political class to just do nothing.
00:58:24.000 All they have to do is point fingers.
00:58:25.000 That's it.
00:58:26.000 And the crazy thing is this is like a self-imposed mass hysteria.
00:58:29.000 You would think that like there's someone manipulating the strings behind the media to try to get us to hate each other, but it's not.
00:58:34.000 Everyone's doing it on their own.
00:58:36.000 It's a profitable strategy.
00:58:38.000 That's what it is.
00:58:39.000 But you're right.
00:58:40.000 It's a confluence of events.
00:58:41.000 It's the confluence of three networks of stratified media, liberal and conservative out there.
00:58:46.000 This is the ethos of our show.
00:58:47.000 When we broke away, they're like, this is what we believe in.
00:58:49.000 We believe in making people hate each other less and hate the corrupt ruling class more.
00:58:52.000 That's what we believe.
00:58:53.000 And we'll see.
00:58:54.000 We can see.
00:58:56.000 Exactly how this manifests itself.
00:58:57.000 I was talking about the January 6th commission because this really bothers me, and it's like I said, I was horrified by January 6th.
00:59:02.000 I think what happened was terrible.
00:59:03.000 I still see, if you are a journalist in Washington, I see these CNN correspondents running up and chasing down senators in the hallways.
00:59:11.000 Senator, what about the January 6th commission?
00:59:12.000 Senator, do you support the January 6th commission?
00:59:14.000 What about subpoena power whenever it comes to the January 6th commission?
00:59:17.000 Meanwhile, and we recently covered this, there is a national reckoning around home prices in America.
00:59:22.000 Okay, but they're not mutually exclusive, right?
00:59:24.000 But the January 6th thing is important.
00:59:26.000 See, it is important, but is it the six months later is it should be the ruling number one conversation of a journalist?
00:59:32.000 I think it's really important.
00:59:33.000 And one of the reasons why I think it's important because it highlights the reasons why a guy like Donald Trump is so fucking dangerous is because a guy can incite a bunch of morons to do something really fucking stupid.
00:59:42.000 And now that he's silenced off of social media and now that, you know, that actually did happen.
00:59:49.000 Yeah.
00:59:49.000 Once it becomes a thing, it could be like mass shootings, right?
00:59:52.000 They didn't exist.
00:59:53.000 Then they did.
00:59:54.000 Now they're a thing.
00:59:56.000 That could be a thing again.
00:59:58.000 If it was a real commission, I would believe you, Joe.
01:00:00.000 But knowing how these things work, I know that this commission would be some sort of bullshit, like the Benghazi report before it or many of these others.
01:00:08.000 The way that the politics works around it, it will dominate the news cycle.
01:00:12.000 And here's the thing, though.
01:00:14.000 Washington actually is a zero-sum game.
01:00:16.000 Like, when I'm talking about mutual exclusivity, it actually is.
01:00:19.000 Senate floor time is the most precious thing in D.C. So whatever the driving conversation of the D.C. is that day, it is actually detracting from somewhere else because these people take vacations literally every other day, the August recess is coming up, all of this.
01:00:32.000 So when we focus on—I mean, look, the presidency— Like, the presidency is really about 100 days, and after that, you're, like, running for the midterms, and after that, you're running for re-election.
01:00:41.000 In terms of the last, what, I think, like, 75, 80 years of the American presidency, the vast majority of major legislation moves in the first couple of months of the administration, and that's it.
01:00:52.000 You're totally dead.
01:00:53.000 And so for the fact that January 6th continues to dominate American politics, I agree with you.
01:00:58.000 It's completely important.
01:00:59.000 And if it was a real commission, yes.
01:01:01.000 But I know that there are these titanic other issues moving within American politics and that are getting zero attention.
01:01:08.000 Lab leak is actually number one.
01:01:09.000 Maybe somebody should go and ask a Democratic senator whether they believe in the lab leak theory or not.
01:01:14.000 This is the mutual exclusivity.
01:01:16.000 Is because the CNN reporter must ask this because he needs to give his bosses something to air on the nightly news that day, which is part of the editorial agenda.
01:01:25.000 The Fox News reporter has to do the same thing.
01:01:28.000 And it comes together to mask all of these incredibly important issues.
01:01:32.000 So it's it really is a tragedy because it's like you said, I don't want to downplay Jan 6. I actually think it was terrible.
01:01:38.000 And it does show like the power of, you know, of a demagogue, like of a charlatan whenever you become president.
01:01:45.000 But Whenever we're focusing on that at the expense of everything else, and maybe we should even ask, why are these people all like, why are you willing to storm the Capitol for Trump?
01:01:56.000 I can help you out with that.
01:01:57.000 Tell me.
01:01:58.000 Because they're idiots.
01:01:59.000 There's a lot of idiots.
01:02:00.000 It's very easy to survive.
01:02:01.000 But I think, here's the thing.
01:02:03.000 But that is what it is.
01:02:04.000 Here's why I really agree with you, is January 6th was like a case study in all that's gone wrong in the country.
01:02:11.000 And you're absolutely right.
01:02:12.000 I think what you said is really profound about this is a thing that happened and now you're very likely to see similar repeats, similar type of, whether it's on the right or the left or whatever.
01:02:23.000 And you just know that the sort of partisan commission that will come out of Washington, we know what the answer will be.
01:02:29.000 The answer will be, number one, Republicans are bad and Donald Trump is bad.
01:02:33.000 They will do, if you were going to really get to the root of what's going on, It would implicate too many Democrats as well who've been happy to play this game of mutual demonization and existential politics that only lead to these sort of horrific outcomes.
01:02:50.000 And again, that doesn't take agency away from any of the people who did this shit, who are morons and deserve whatever punishment is appropriate.
01:02:57.000 The problem is, what this will lead to is, number one, Donald Trump's bad.
01:03:01.000 Okay, we get that.
01:03:02.000 We all know that and we have our feelings about it.
01:03:04.000 Number two, this justifies us taking more surveillance power, creeping into your life more, demonizing the other side, quote unquote, even more.
01:03:17.000 And so, 100%.
01:03:18.000 I mean, actually, you could think about our show and what we do every day.
01:03:22.000 As trying to get to the roots of how you end up in a fucking terrible place like January 6th.
01:03:28.000 Do I think that our political class is going to do it?
01:03:30.000 No, of course not.
01:03:31.000 Of course not, because it implicates too many of them.
01:03:34.000 So they'll just search for the partisan answer.
01:03:36.000 They'll search for the answer that hands them more power and hands the sort of surveillance state and police state more power.
01:03:44.000 We're already seeing that.
01:03:44.000 Joe Biden just made a big announcement about all of that.
01:03:47.000 What was the announcement?
01:03:48.000 So he announced, and I haven't had a chance to read through all the details, but there's a new big initiative to essentially use the powers that we deployed against Islamic terrorists now against the domestic population.
01:04:02.000 So treating sort of domestic extremism in the same way that we treat it.
01:04:06.000 How do you define domestic extremism?
01:04:07.000 Well, that's the question.
01:04:10.000 And that's what January 6th commission is about.
01:04:12.000 That is the question.
01:04:14.000 I fucking hate white supremacists.
01:04:18.000 It's a monstrous ideology.
01:04:20.000 But one day it's that, and the next day, just like we saw with Islam.
01:04:23.000 Some of these people who were arrested for supposedly aiding and abetting terrorism, it was totally set up.
01:04:28.000 They never would have even thought about a plot if the FBI hadn't encouraged them to create a plot.
01:04:34.000 It helps to bolster someone's career because then they can say, look, we went out and got the bad guys and we disrupted this bombing plot, etc., etc.
01:04:41.000 They get elevated in the media.
01:04:43.000 Their career flourishes.
01:04:45.000 You've got people who now have even more surveillance powers into all of our lives.
01:04:49.000 And that question of, okay, now who is a domestic terrorist?
01:04:52.000 That is the question.
01:04:54.000 And that's where this all ends up ultimately becoming very scary.
01:04:58.000 I saw this in the New York Times post-January 6th.
01:05:00.000 They're saying that people are now using encrypted messaging in order to pass potentially dangerous ideas.
01:05:06.000 So what is the implication of that?
01:05:08.000 Dangerous ideas.
01:05:09.000 We need access to Signal because people are having dangerous conversations.
01:05:15.000 Some ex-white supremacists use Signal maybe in order to plan January 6th.
01:05:19.000 Okay, a lot of people use the phone in order to do all kinds of shit.
01:05:23.000 Does that mean that all phone conversations should be tapped all of the time?
01:05:27.000 Or they said the same thing about podcasts.
01:05:30.000 I'm sure you saw that too, right?
01:05:31.000 There was a big New York Times article about how podcasts are this unregulated, unfettered.
01:05:37.000 That's the word they like.
01:05:39.000 Unfettered conversations are happening on these podcasts and we have to shut that down.
01:05:43.000 Well, that's why they're popular.
01:05:44.000 Can't have that, Joe.
01:05:44.000 They're popular because of unfettered conversations.
01:05:46.000 And this is what I want to underscore, is that When you allow this to happen in the hands of these, like, monsters, is that they will use it not to any—what you're talking about is a good-faith effort to be like, this is fucking crazy.
01:06:00.000 And I actually read a profile of one of the guys—I hate to laugh about this, but some of the people who died on January 6th had heart attacks, and it was because it was, like, the most exciting day of their lives, like, while they were storming the Capitol.
01:06:11.000 I read a profile of one of these guys— People were storming the Capitol.
01:06:15.000 They were so excited.
01:06:17.000 There were like four people who had heart attacks.
01:06:18.000 Eating meatball subs all day and clogged arteries.
01:06:22.000 It's hard to find a healthy diet in this country, Joe.
01:06:24.000 I was reading about this man, and this man, he's a former Obama voter who was, I think he's from Alabama.
01:06:30.000 He was an Obama voter?
01:06:32.000 He was an Obama voter.
01:06:32.000 Not that long ago.
01:06:34.000 And the union, I think he was part of a union, and he had a good warehouse job.
01:06:37.000 And a lot of that left in the mid-2000s.
01:06:40.000 And he started blaming the elites, no, of course, right, for taking away that job.
01:06:44.000 And Trump spoke to him in a way that nobody had spoken to him before.
01:06:48.000 This was Trump's power.
01:06:50.000 It was giving cultural power to largely, downwardly mobile Americans.
01:06:54.000 You know, I used to really believe in a lot of the policy issues around why Trump was elected, around trade and all that.
01:07:00.000 But to be honest, it was pure, unadeliterated culture.
01:07:05.000 And that actually made me really sad because I was driving before the election around Reno, Nevada.
01:07:12.000 It was a very rural part of the country.
01:07:14.000 And right on the side of the road, there was this farmer or ranch or something.
01:07:18.000 He had a big house.
01:07:18.000 He had a Massive sign.
01:07:20.000 It was like 20, 30 feet.
01:07:21.000 And it just said, Trump, colon, fuck your feelings.
01:07:24.000 And I really realized, I was like, that was the core appeal, is that Trump gave the power to 75 million people.
01:07:30.000 Remember, he won 10 million more votes than he did last time around, to people who just fucking hate the liberal elite so much.
01:07:37.000 And the mainstream democratic elite, not the same as the progressive ideology.
01:07:41.000 I want to be very clear there.
01:07:42.000 The like woke capitalism, exactly what you're talking about.
01:07:45.000 They feel so dismissed, disgust, like the disgust like emanates from Washington, from New York, from Hollywood, from everywhere, through every organ of our culture, that in Trump, they were able to say, fuck you.
01:08:00.000 That was their one.
01:08:01.000 That's all they have left.
01:08:02.000 They don't have anything else left.
01:08:03.000 And so and I don't want to downplay once again, but like, You have to ask this question, like, how did this Obama guy storm the Capitol and then die of a heart attack because it was one of the most exciting days of his life?
01:08:13.000 Is he an idiot?
01:08:14.000 Yeah, maybe.
01:08:15.000 But, like, this manifests itself all in very dangerous conditions.
01:08:19.000 And so that's when I see all of these games.
01:08:22.000 Like, I remember post-January 6th, we were talking about, we need to do what we did in Iraq here in D.C. I'm like, no!
01:08:28.000 That was terrible!
01:08:30.000 Who's saying that?
01:08:31.000 I think it was Joy Reid who was talking about debathification.
01:08:34.000 And if anybody wants to know, so I don't want to go too deep around a rabbit hole, but the only reason I'm in politics is because of my opposition to the Iraq War.
01:08:41.000 And I grew up not far from here in College Station, which was Very pro-Iraq war, and I thought I was losing my fucking mind as a teenager.
01:08:48.000 De-Bathification was the policy where we basically unemployed in a single day all of the people who used to work for the Saddam regime in Iraq.
01:08:57.000 Oh, they also happened to be the situation where you had to be a Ba'ath Party member if you wanted to take out the trash or the military, the police, all of that.
01:09:05.000 So the country fell to shit in six months, and that's how the insurgency happened.
01:09:09.000 And it was amazing to me watching Joy Reid and many others talking about Iraq and war on terror style policy saying that we need to do that to our own population.
01:09:20.000 That is the ultimate agenda.
01:09:21.000 We see John Brennan and all these CIA guys saying the same thing.
01:09:25.000 Yes, there we go.
01:09:26.000 That we need more counter-terrorism strategies.
01:09:28.000 More dangerous than we've seen in Al-Qaeda.
01:09:30.000 And the urgent, most terrorist...
01:09:31.000 Like, this language?
01:09:33.000 I know what this language means.
01:09:35.000 It means billions more dollars to the CIA, to a new creation of some fake, like, National Domestic Terror Center, which will be a fancy new building in McLean, Virginia, so that people can spy on you.
01:09:46.000 And then once that happens, you think they're gonna give that up?
01:09:49.000 The funding never dries up.
01:09:51.000 It has to keep coming.
01:09:52.000 Or people lose their jobs.
01:09:54.000 And once you work for the federal government, it just continues to like march on and on and on.
01:09:59.000 So we both identified this very soon.
01:10:01.000 I even saw, I don't want to attribute the quote directly to him, but I saw some suggestion somewhere about like, these are the type of people we would drone strike in Iraq, some former military.
01:10:11.000 I'm like, dude!
01:10:12.000 What is happening here?
01:10:14.000 This is crazy!
01:10:16.000 This is totally crazy!
01:10:18.000 And yet, I mean, look, it hasn't happened yet, but, like, there were a lot of discussions about a new domestic war on terror law, and you don't even really need a new war on terror law.
01:10:26.000 All you need to do is to redefine what domestic terrorism means.
01:10:30.000 The FBI can do basically whatever the fuck it wants.
01:10:33.000 Like, I have read...
01:10:34.000 Some of these affidavits of the Islamic terrorism.
01:10:37.000 This shit is scary.
01:10:38.000 They're like, I mean, they can ride up the line of entrapment where they're like, hey, do you want to bomb something?
01:10:43.000 We talked about it the other day on the podcast that there was a guy who was a 19-year-old kid and they gave this kid a fake bomb.
01:10:49.000 They talked him into it.
01:10:50.000 He thought he was in with Al-Qaeda.
01:10:53.000 They gave him a fake bomb.
01:10:54.000 They gave him a phone to detonate it.
01:10:56.000 The moment he pressed the buttons on the phone, they swooped in and arrested them.
01:10:59.000 Material support for terrorism, 25 to life.
01:11:01.000 That's it.
01:11:01.000 Now he's locked down forever.
01:11:04.000 I think it was The Times that did a whole expose on the Herald Square bomber.
01:11:08.000 Do you remember this?
01:11:09.000 I remember when this was a news.
01:11:11.000 I think it was at MSNBC when the news broke.
01:11:13.000 Oh, they've disrupted this plot, etc., etc.
01:11:16.000 You dig into the details of what Where was Harold's from?
01:11:19.000 Harold's in New York.
01:11:20.000 Where Macy's is.
01:11:22.000 Gigantic subway station, tons of people.
01:11:24.000 So you see that and you're like, oh my god, this close call.
01:11:27.000 This was crazy.
01:11:28.000 So number one, the FBI informant radicalized this guy.
01:11:32.000 He was a devout Muslim.
01:11:34.000 They started showing him pictures of Abu Ghraib and all these horrific things.
01:11:38.000 Radicalized him towards the West.
01:11:41.000 Then they're encouraging him to help them with the planning.
01:11:44.000 They get down to it, and he starts to balk and go, I don't really want to be involved with this.
01:11:49.000 And he actually says, I need to talk to my mom about this, OK? This is this sort of horrible terrorist threat.
01:11:56.000 Did not actually, the only thing he agreed to do is he was like, okay, maybe I'll serve as a scout, but I have to ask my mom about it.
01:12:02.000 And that was enough.
01:12:03.000 And again, careers were made off of this.
01:12:06.000 So that's all he said?
01:12:08.000 Maybe I'll serve as a scout?
01:12:10.000 So he was willing, he agreed technically to serve as a scout, but said he wanted to talk to, yep, yep.
01:12:16.000 That's it.
01:12:16.000 Material support for terrorism.
01:12:18.000 They got all these guys to show up at the airport during the whole ISIS thing.
01:12:22.000 The moment you buy an airport ticket, that's material support for terrorism to the Islamic State.
01:12:26.000 And you show up and they can arrest you right at the gate.
01:12:28.000 And so it becomes an industry.
01:12:29.000 And all I'm saying is I don't want to turn that industry on more people that it's already been turned on.
01:12:34.000 How do we stop this?
01:12:36.000 Here's the question.
01:12:37.000 I guess speaking about it's going to help.
01:12:38.000 But how do you stop this whole widespread domestic surveillance system from expanding?
01:12:46.000 Because that's the real concern.
01:12:48.000 Right.
01:12:48.000 And the way to ensure that there's support for expanding is to continue this division amongst people.
01:12:54.000 That's right.
01:12:54.000 That's exactly right.
01:12:55.000 Don't buy into it.
01:12:56.000 Don't buy into the whole, like, fuck the Democrats, fuck the Republicans.
01:12:59.000 The problem is a lot of people live in these worlds where they're very isolated and they don't know anybody outside of their own ideological bubble.
01:13:07.000 Exactly right.
01:13:08.000 And we self-sort, right?
01:13:10.000 I'm going to have a drink.
01:13:11.000 Go ahead.
01:13:13.000 If anybody wants one, let me know.
01:13:15.000 It's a little early in the day for me.
01:13:17.000 Yeah, me too.
01:13:19.000 You're kind of freaking me out.
01:13:21.000 You know, I think the hopeful piece is, like...
01:13:24.000 People are searching out people like you.
01:13:27.000 People are searching out places like Breaking Points.
01:13:29.000 They're searching for—because, you know, most people in their normal lives, they don't experience it as like, oh my god, this person across town is like the real threat to me.
01:13:38.000 They don't experience that isn't the reality of their daily lives.
01:13:41.000 And so I do think that there's an innate hunger for a different way of approaching this.
01:13:47.000 There is.
01:13:47.000 And this is the perfect example of like with the domestic surveillance, you know, when it was the war on terror, you had a lot of progressives who were very like clear about civil libertarian, like they stood up for the principle, they really knew where they stood.
01:14:01.000 And now that we're talking about the domestic terrorism, well, suddenly they've totally flipped.
01:14:08.000 Now they're pro-surveillance state.
01:14:09.000 Can we stop for a second?
01:14:09.000 Pull that article up again.
01:14:11.000 Look at the language that's being used and recognize who's doing this.
01:14:15.000 Right.
01:14:16.000 Recognize what Barr said?
01:14:19.000 It was Baker.
01:14:20.000 Was it Baker?
01:14:21.000 Right.
01:14:22.000 Oh, I'm sorry.
01:14:24.000 Okay.
01:14:25.000 When you find it, put it back up.
01:14:26.000 Because the issue is...
01:14:28.000 Okay, Baker, I'm sorry.
01:14:29.000 Baker argued that the counterterrorism strategy should be reserved for the much more dangerous forms of terrorism we've seen from ISIS and Al-Qaeda.
01:14:40.000 But intelligence officials say the threat to the homeland from Islamic terrorism has greatly diminished.
01:14:45.000 And the Biden administration says domestic terrorism, in quotes, has evolved into the most urgent terrorism threat in the United States faces today.
01:14:55.000 Think about that.
01:14:56.000 What the fuck kind of crazy shit is that?
01:14:58.000 Think about that.
01:14:58.000 How much domestic terrorism are we experiencing?
01:15:01.000 Correct.
01:15:01.000 Are we experiencing domestic terrorism?
01:15:04.000 No!
01:15:04.000 That we had a bunch of yahoos that were living in their mom's basement that did a really fucking stupid thing.
01:15:10.000 And oddly enough, there's a lot of videos of cops opening up gates.
01:15:14.000 What is that about?
01:15:16.000 Are those cops Trump supporters?
01:15:18.000 Is that what that is?
01:15:19.000 That's the allegation.
01:15:21.000 And here's the other piece that you gotta love, right?
01:15:23.000 If you had had, did you read any of the stuff about like the Keystone Cops level failures on that day?
01:15:30.000 Because you're talking about, yeah, this was like a few thousand people.
01:15:32.000 If you'd had it properly manned, As opposed to the way they did it with Black Lives Matter, when Black Lives Matter was near the Capitol.
01:15:38.000 Oh, forget about it.
01:15:39.000 Lockdown!
01:15:40.000 Right.
01:15:40.000 It was a helicopter circling overhead.
01:15:42.000 It's like aliens were coming.
01:15:42.000 Yes!
01:15:43.000 And so, for this...
01:15:44.000 Okay, so they don't have the manpower.
01:15:46.000 They didn't take the...
01:15:47.000 The shields?
01:15:47.000 It's not even intelligence seriously.
01:15:50.000 It was all out there on the...
01:15:51.000 They thought it was just going to be a protest and a bunch of people cheering and they had no preparation.
01:15:56.000 And then their riot shields were like locked on a bus and they didn't have the key so they couldn't get to them.
01:16:03.000 Some of them who did have riot shields they cracked and broke.
01:16:06.000 So this is total, total fear.
01:16:08.000 Failure on the part of the Capitol Hill police and everybody who was involved in making sure and securing that building.
01:16:17.000 And so what is the answer?
01:16:19.000 Rather than being like, you all fucked up and here's how you need to do it differently, they hand them a larger budget.
01:16:24.000 They hand them more money.
01:16:26.000 The problem was not money.
01:16:28.000 The problem is that they didn't take it seriously.
01:16:30.000 They didn't have the manpower.
01:16:31.000 They didn't have just like the basics of their equipment.
01:16:33.000 And so the answer is, we're going to give you more money and more power.
01:16:37.000 I will never forget Election Day in Washington.
01:16:39.000 Sorry, Inauguration Day.
01:16:41.000 It was the Green Zone.
01:16:42.000 So our studio, our old Hill studio, was at 16th and K, which is right across from the White House.
01:16:47.000 We were unable to access it.
01:16:48.000 There were military Humvees that were in the streets.
01:16:51.000 It was a total lockdown.
01:16:53.000 It was literally being in a war zone.
01:16:55.000 And I was looking around.
01:16:56.000 I lived there for 10 years, and I was like, this is the nation's capital.
01:17:00.000 There are armed men in the streets.
01:17:03.000 And here's the thing.
01:17:04.000 Maybe Inauguration Day, even though I thought it was bullshit.
01:17:07.000 They were there for months.
01:17:08.000 They were there.
01:17:10.000 I think in February, it had cost $500 billion.
01:17:13.000 And I used to drive past- Wait, what?
01:17:15.000 Million.
01:17:15.000 Oh, yeah, 500. Oh, yeah, sorry, 500 million.
01:17:18.000 Half a billion.
01:17:19.000 Sorry, sorry, sorry.
01:17:20.000 Half a billion dollars.
01:17:22.000 I was like, wait a minute, someone's stealing money.
01:17:24.000 Pour another drink, Joe.
01:17:25.000 Still $500 million.
01:17:27.000 Spark a joint.
01:17:27.000 But they were there, and the reason they had to stay is because Congress was like, well, there's a QAnon forum where they say maybe real inauguration day is March.
01:17:35.000 So all of these National Guardsmen, yeah, they have to stay until March.
01:17:39.000 And then the permanent fencing was up there for a long time.
01:17:43.000 Even today, you cannot enter the Capitol building, which this is our nation's Capitol.
01:17:47.000 It used to be a very open and free place, which I always thought was amazing.
01:17:50.000 You see these tourists walking through, and I think it's important.
01:17:53.000 It's the people's house.
01:17:54.000 I think?
01:18:09.000 And again, the image of the world that we broadcast from Biden's inauguration was a lockdown city afraid of its own shadow, as you said, over a bunch of yahoos who stormed the Capitol.
01:18:20.000 You have a hundred more cops on that day with riot shields.
01:18:22.000 It looks completely and totally different.
01:18:25.000 And what happened?
01:18:26.000 The National Guard and all those guys, they got billions more in the grants.
01:18:29.000 The Capitol Police, I think a few people were fired, but no real, you know...
01:18:33.000 Reckoning with that, they got millions more dollars, and we're all just supposed to move on.
01:18:37.000 It was the most shameful response that I have seen yet.
01:18:40.000 And then the domestic terrorism thing that you're seeing there.
01:18:43.000 All of this is about money, in my opinion.
01:18:45.000 It's an industry backed up by ideology.
01:18:47.000 That's money and power.
01:18:48.000 It is money and power that concentrates, and then they use the justification of January 6th in order to blow up the budget for billions and billions more.
01:18:57.000 And then they'll use some...
01:18:58.000 And here's the thing.
01:18:59.000 They have to...
01:18:59.000 Not manufacture.
01:19:01.000 I don't want to use my words carefully, but the Herald Square thing is an example, what you were talking about with a 19-year-old, that they're going to go out there on these forums and start grooming kids and saying, hey, do you fucking hate, you know, like, do you hate brown people or something?
01:19:15.000 Well, you should buy this thing and buy a ticket to come to this convention.
01:19:19.000 The moment you buy the ticket, they're going to fucking nail you, right?
01:19:22.000 And what is that going to do?
01:19:23.000 Did that work on Islamic terrorism?
01:19:25.000 Actually, no.
01:19:26.000 Did that keep anyone safer?
01:19:27.000 Yeah.
01:19:28.000 No, you actually radicalized someone who wasn't radicalized before.
01:19:31.000 Congratulations.
01:19:32.000 Spent billions of dollars on it and it has to perpetuate.
01:19:35.000 So it will first, it's here.
01:19:36.000 And it's like you asked a great question at the top of this conversation.
01:19:39.000 What does domestic extremism mean?
01:19:40.000 It means whatever the fuck they want it to mean.
01:19:42.000 So in the height of the pandemic, let's say that Biden was president.
01:19:45.000 Is anti-masking domestic extremism?
01:19:47.000 Are those weirdos who stormed the Michigan Capitol?
01:19:49.000 I'm not endorsing this, but like, you know, the Michigan Capitol thing that was like months ago.
01:19:53.000 Are they domestic extremists?
01:19:54.000 Yeah, maybe.
01:19:55.000 Those are the guys that wanted to kill the governor.
01:19:58.000 No, no, no.
01:19:58.000 That was a plot.
01:19:59.000 At one point, they stormed the Michigan capital.
01:20:02.000 They're like, we're not going to wear masks.
01:20:04.000 Anti-lockdown protesters.
01:20:06.000 It's like a hundred people.
01:20:07.000 Look, and let's be clear.
01:20:09.000 This is one of the bipartisan...
01:20:11.000 No president comes into office and says, I'm going to give some of these powers that I have that I think have gone too far, I'm going to give some of that up.
01:20:17.000 None.
01:20:18.000 None of that do that.
01:20:19.000 Why would you do that if you're president?
01:20:20.000 So today, it's Biden, and it's Democrats in charge, and so the focus is on white supremacists or people on the right.
01:20:30.000 Under Trump, he wanted to make Antifa classified as a domestic terror organization.
01:20:36.000 Now look, if people break the law in Antifa or they're violent or whatever, obviously they should be dealt with.
01:20:41.000 We don't need any new laws to do this.
01:20:44.000 So this isn't like, okay, we're only going to go after the ones on the right or the left.
01:20:48.000 If you're thinking this is going to benefit your political cause, you need to put that aside.
01:20:53.000 This has to be about...
01:20:55.000 You asked what we can do to push back.
01:20:57.000 It really has to be people who have actual principles, who apply them consistently, even when they think it might hurt, quote unquote, their team.
01:21:06.000 And that's where you just, you know, the media and the political class obviously goes in the complete opposite direction, where they flip-flop constantly, depending on what's convenient for them in that day.
01:21:17.000 And we're in a dangerous situation because The quote-unquote liberal outlets have spent the past four years elevating people like former heads of the CIA and former heads of the FBI and all of these people who want nothing more than to get the next surveillance contract, to continue to further the power of themselves and their buddies and the institutions that they always represented.
01:21:35.000 And those people are now seen as like liberal heroes.
01:21:38.000 So it does put us in a very vulnerable and dangerous situation.
01:21:41.000 And there's a very clear strategy.
01:21:43.000 If you're some sort of an outside agency that's trying to fuck with people and you want to get on forums or get on social media and incite people in one direction or the other.
01:21:55.000 And we don't know how many of the people that post on Facebook or how many of the people that post on Twitter are that.
01:22:00.000 That's very, very true.
01:22:02.000 It makes us a more fragile society.
01:22:05.000 And that's why the whole Russian memes thing...
01:22:06.000 I've actually read a lot.
01:22:07.000 I've heard you talk about it too.
01:22:08.000 The internet research...
01:22:10.000 Fascinating.
01:22:11.000 Amazing stuff.
01:22:11.000 There's a 2015 New Yorker profile on the internet research agency and all that stuff too.
01:22:16.000 But you have to have something to manipulate and for it to be real.
01:22:20.000 We're only fucked with because we've allowed our population to basically be ripped apart.
01:22:25.000 We are increasingly seeing this...
01:22:27.000 This is why I focus on the economics as well...
01:22:30.000 We are becoming a completely stratified society.
01:22:32.000 Like people are flocking to mega cities like Los Angeles.
01:22:36.000 Well, not now, but Austin is actually a very good example of a lot.
01:22:40.000 Arizona had a lot of incoming Florida as well, which is that you have the professional managerial class basically concentrating in these mega urban environments.
01:22:50.000 And this sounds crude, but like breeding with each other, having kids.
01:22:54.000 And again, there's nothing wrong with this.
01:22:56.000 People who go to college generally want to marry somebody else who went to college.
01:23:00.000 But then they want to move somewhere where other people also went to college.
01:23:03.000 And then you raise your kids in such a way that you all have the same values.
01:23:07.000 But this has now happened over 40 years or so.
01:23:11.000 And what has happened, Charles Murray, who he shall not be named, actually wrote an entire book about this called Coming Apart.
01:23:16.000 This was based upon 2010 data.
01:23:19.000 And you actually saw that zip codes were completely being ripped apart by education level.
01:23:24.000 And the more that this happens and the trend continues where more educated people marry other educated people and they increasingly become raised away from one another, then you're just going to hate each other.
01:23:34.000 And the people who got the short end of the stick are very normal, average people who are like, hey, I like living 10 miles away from my mom.
01:23:41.000 There's nothing wrong with that.
01:23:42.000 I moved to Washington.
01:23:43.000 I grew up in College Station.
01:23:44.000 You know, I'm very atypical.
01:23:45.000 A lot of people stayed behind.
01:23:47.000 There's nothing wrong with them.
01:23:49.000 I lived 10 miles from my mom.
01:24:18.000 This is the whole suburban phenomenon, which is that the more that people live and raise their kids in a bubble, then they're going to make it so that, like where I live, for example, they don't know.
01:24:29.000 I don't think the people I live around, all the Black Lives Matter, gay pride flags, everything is, you know, all of the flags are in the windows and all of that.
01:24:38.000 I don't think they even know anybody who thinks differently.
01:24:40.000 And when they do, they hate them.
01:24:42.000 And what they don't recognize is that they have an immense cultural power that they are projecting onto the rest of the country.
01:24:49.000 And the rest of the country, they feel your hatred, but a lot of them just want to live their lives.
01:24:54.000 Eventually, though, the feeling of that hatred manifested the hatred back.
01:24:58.000 That was the Trump phenomenon.
01:24:59.000 And so the more that we continue to just be stratified by economic lines, it has all these horrific societal benefits.
01:25:07.000 Of a lot of these intelligence people.
01:25:08.000 Who do you think they are?
01:25:09.000 I know where they all live.
01:25:10.000 They live in the wealthiest suburbs.
01:25:12.000 The four wealthiest counties in America surround Washington, D.C. It's all bureaucrats.
01:25:16.000 It's people who work in defense contracting.
01:25:18.000 It's like Bethesda, Loudoun County, Fairfax, and all these people.
01:25:23.000 It becomes this business of hating one another, and it's just so incredibly profitable.
01:25:29.000 And, I mean, look, we try very, very hard, but we're dropping a bucket.
01:25:33.000 It's a privilege to be here, one of the largest platforms in the world.
01:25:36.000 And if that's what we can get out, the message is we cannot live this way.
01:25:40.000 We cannot live in such a way where you don't even know somebody who thinks differently than you.
01:25:46.000 And then, look, we're tribal people.
01:25:49.000 We're tribal.
01:25:50.000 It's built into our DNA. Hating one another actually is quite natural.
01:25:54.000 And that is why a lot of people exploit that for dangerous purposes.
01:25:59.000 But you can't live in a cohesive country that way, especially if I think?
01:26:07.000 I think?
01:26:19.000 I'm not related to any of these people, but I'm like, this is part of who we were, like Union troops dying and fighting to free slaves.
01:26:26.000 When I think about that, I feel a deep connection with it in our history, but we're losing that because we're increasingly losing any connection to one another.
01:26:35.000 So there was a study that just came out recently that I actually think is incredibly important.
01:26:41.000 I don't know if you know the economist Thomas Piketty, but he's done some of the sort of like seminal work, not just here in the U.S., but across Western European democracies as well on class and income inequality and like the way that these societies are coming apart.
01:26:58.000 And what he found, and, you know, I think this very much is some of the points that you've been making, Joe, is, like, in places where these tribal culture war politics are put at the center, the economics and just, like,
01:27:13.000 trying to get people the basics of a decent life, it completely falls by the wayside.
01:27:17.000 Because you look at the numbers over the past year.
01:27:20.000 You look at the fact that you have these billionaires who got wealthier and wealthier and wealthier.
01:27:25.000 And regular people got so fucked.
01:27:28.000 Either you were forced onto the front lines and your health completely disregarded and getting sick and overwhelming numbers and all of that, or you lost your job completely, right?
01:27:38.000 That was the reality for most working class Americans.
01:27:39.000 So you look at that and you're like, where's the backlash?
01:27:41.000 Where's the political response?
01:27:43.000 Where's the balancing of the scale so that at least you got a fighting shot if you're a working class person in this country?
01:27:49.000 And the answer is, and this is what his research over 21 different Western democracies showed, the answer is, culture war is so good at distracting people and pitting them against each other versus focusing on any of those concerns.
01:28:05.000 That's a bonanza for political class.
01:28:08.000 It's a bonanza for financial elites.
01:28:10.000 That's a bonanza for the Jeff Bezoses and the Walmarts of the world.
01:28:13.000 Because then all you have to do to be on the right side of those culture wars, you know, you throw up a Black Lives Matter banner.
01:28:19.000 Even as you're screwing over your black and brown, it doesn't matter.
01:28:22.000 You said the right words.
01:28:23.000 It means for our political class, Nancy Pelosi, all she has to do is like Neil and Kente Clark.
01:28:27.000 Everyone's like, oh, she's amazing.
01:28:29.000 That was so great.
01:28:29.000 Wonderful.
01:28:30.000 Joe Biden, it was.
01:28:32.000 It was wonderful.
01:28:33.000 It was one of my favorite political moments ever because it was so transparent.
01:28:35.000 It's so perfect.
01:28:37.000 It was like a magician with no sleeves.
01:28:39.000 Or like I loved Elizabeth Warren at the DMC. She put Black Lives Matter, BLM in school blocks behind her.
01:28:46.000 And on the right, it's the same thing.
01:28:49.000 All you have to do is be like, I hate cancel culture, and can you believe what they're doing with Dr. Seuss and Potato Head?
01:28:55.000 That doesn't have any legislation.
01:28:58.000 You're not proposing any legislation.
01:29:00.000 You're not trying to make people's lives better.
01:29:01.000 You just have to say the right words to culturally signal to your base, and it lets you completely off the hook.
01:29:07.000 So that's why there's never any sort of political response or massive backlash To the complete pulling apart of America.
01:29:17.000 Yeah, our cultural wars has hijacked our tribal instincts.
01:29:21.000 Yeah, that's it.
01:29:22.000 And instead of looking at ourselves as one enormous tribe, we've decided that we're separate tribes.
01:29:26.000 That's it.
01:29:26.000 And that we need to get rid of one tribe in order to have peace.
01:29:30.000 But guess what?
01:29:31.000 If they ever did that, like, let's just imagine a world where the left assassinated all the people on the right.
01:29:38.000 They would find people on the left who aren't left enough.
01:29:41.000 Correct.
01:29:41.000 Oh, absolutely.
01:29:42.000 And they would separate, and they would divide and conquer.
01:29:44.000 That's happening.
01:29:55.000 All of this is just it's such a great point.
01:29:59.000 It's just a fucking like it's a sideshow.
01:30:01.000 Like it's a soap opera.
01:30:03.000 It's Kayfabe.
01:30:04.000 That's what it is.
01:30:04.000 It's Kayfabe all the time.
01:30:07.000 We all need mushrooms.
01:30:10.000 This is psychedelic mushroom centers all over the country.
01:30:13.000 She's been doing all these monologues now about psychedelics.
01:30:15.000 Well, it's actually really important.
01:30:18.000 That was one of the things they thought in the 60s and 70s is like, we're going to get everybody LSD and then we're all going to get along.
01:30:24.000 LSD is more tricky.
01:30:25.000 Sue, I haven't done any of these substances.
01:30:28.000 You've done none of them?
01:30:29.000 You've done none of them?
01:30:29.000 No, I am planning.
01:30:33.000 What are you planning?
01:30:36.000 Psilocybin is now decriminalized in D.C. So that's my plan for it.
01:30:41.000 But I feel like I need some time and space to...
01:30:44.000 No, microdose.
01:30:45.000 Really?
01:30:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:30:46.000 Just a little bit.
01:30:47.000 A little bit is nice just to go, oh, I get it.
01:30:50.000 Okay.
01:30:51.000 Am I going to turn it into post balloon?
01:30:52.000 No.
01:30:54.000 But is it worth having?
01:30:55.000 That was one of the best podcasts we ever did.
01:30:57.000 It was a great podcast you did.
01:30:58.000 We were blasted to do a podcast on mushrooms.
01:31:01.000 Shows mushrooms can't be bad.
01:31:02.000 All we talked about was post fighting off a wolf.
01:31:05.000 I think you've talked about Roblox too, which my kids are also totally obsessed with.
01:31:09.000 Oh my god, my daughter's finally abandoned Roblox, it seems like.
01:31:12.000 How old is she?
01:31:13.000 She just turned 11. Okay, my son just turned 8 and he is so addicted.
01:31:17.000 I invested in Roblox because of her son.
01:31:19.000 She has friends back in California and they play Roblox on the iPad online against each other.
01:31:25.000 And so she'll have two iPads going on.
01:31:27.000 One that's FaceTiming.
01:31:28.000 Yes.
01:31:28.000 So she's FaceTiming her friend and the other one they're Robloxing.
01:31:31.000 Yes.
01:31:31.000 So they're playing this game.
01:31:33.000 And then the one thing that is kind of creative is they invent rooms.
01:31:36.000 Right.
01:31:37.000 So they develop, like they actually construct, and she wants to show me these things that she's constructed and it's kind of interesting.
01:31:42.000 So he also has gotten super into, like, then there's YouTubers that play Roblox.
01:31:48.000 Yes.
01:31:48.000 And you watch them.
01:31:49.000 That drives me fucking crazy.
01:31:51.000 He'll be like, Mom, you have to watch this video.
01:31:55.000 It's essential.
01:31:56.000 He'll say something like that.
01:31:57.000 It's like an hour long.
01:31:58.000 I'm like, I'm sorry, Lolo.
01:31:59.000 I love you so much.
01:32:00.000 I am not watching your hour long Roblox video.
01:32:03.000 She was telling me about how much her son's addicted to Roblox.
01:32:05.000 And I saw the Roblox IPO. And I was like, any app that can get this many kids.
01:32:09.000 I was like, it's going to make a lot of money.
01:32:10.000 So I bought some stock.
01:32:11.000 I was like, oh, let's do it.
01:32:12.000 No, there's money that you have to pay during the game.
01:32:16.000 That's right.
01:32:17.000 On my phone, I get these alerts, requests from my daughter wanting more Robux.
01:32:23.000 That's right.
01:32:24.000 What the fuck is this?
01:32:26.000 My son, this is so cute.
01:32:27.000 So he's playing soccer.
01:32:28.000 And at the beginning of the last season, they were all like introducing themselves as part of the team and whatever.
01:32:34.000 And he said something.
01:32:35.000 They were supposed to say something about themselves.
01:32:36.000 And he's like, I'm Lowell and I really like Roblox.
01:32:41.000 And all the other kids were like, oh my god!
01:32:43.000 That's me too!
01:32:44.000 I love Roblox!
01:32:45.000 It was this massive revelation.
01:32:47.000 Wow!
01:32:48.000 We're all just alike!
01:32:50.000 So anyway, Roblox.
01:32:52.000 It's a thing.
01:32:52.000 They're all TikTok and Roblox.
01:32:55.000 Well, maybe that shared communal experience will bring the country back together.
01:33:02.000 See, TikTok's actually the opposite, though.
01:33:03.000 This is where I get, I hate to be this guy, to turn it to something serious.
01:33:06.000 My 13-year-old is the one who's really into TikTok.
01:33:08.000 TikTok is actually a hyper-personalized algorithm, which is that it serves up stuff specifically.
01:33:14.000 I don't use TikTok because of the Chinese factor.
01:33:16.000 Well, can you explain the whole factor?
01:33:18.000 Because it's one of the most pervasive apps that any software engineer has ever back-engineered.
01:33:24.000 You're not on there, are you?
01:33:25.000 No!
01:33:26.000 It's a revolution in social media.
01:33:29.000 No, it's not bad.
01:33:31.000 I would be impressed.
01:33:32.000 You would be impressed if I was?
01:33:33.000 I would be kind of impressed.
01:33:34.000 If I was out there TikTok-ing?
01:33:36.000 Yeah!
01:33:37.000 Well, it's not all dancing.
01:33:37.000 The world needs that, Joe.
01:33:38.000 The world does need that.
01:33:40.000 Jerry clips are very popular on there.
01:33:44.000 There were lots of like Bernie TikTokers.
01:33:46.000 So my 13 year old is very into TikTok.
01:33:49.000 And so she shares.
01:33:50.000 I don't understand how to navigate through the app because I'm too fucking old.
01:33:53.000 But she shares with me some of the content and some of it is genuinely hilarious.
01:33:56.000 I see some of it go viral.
01:33:57.000 Yeah.
01:33:58.000 In terms of the social.
01:33:59.000 The internet is filled with hilarious people.
01:34:00.000 It's very creative.
01:34:01.000 It's very creative.
01:34:02.000 But I mean, from their recommendation algorithm, it basically, as I understand it, which is that they track almost every minute thing that you do within the app, like how fast that you take to swipe up, and they are able to build a hyper-personalized algorithm specifically to you.
01:34:17.000 And the reason why is this takes out all the bullshit from Facebook and Twitter, and it boils it down to what social media's job actually is, keeping you on that app as long as humanly possible.
01:34:27.000 And I saw recently TikTok actually surpassed Instagram.
01:34:30.000 In terms of time on app here in the United States, where we have tens of millions of people who are spending more time there than on Instagram.
01:34:39.000 You're taking money out of Zuckerberg's pocket whenever you do that.
01:34:42.000 And now you're giving it to, I forget his name, the ByteDance CEO. Now you're giving money to the ByteDance guy because that is the best.
01:34:49.000 ByteDance?
01:34:50.000 ByteDance is the parent company of TikTok.
01:34:52.000 They bought TikTok.
01:34:53.000 Well, no, they own TikTok.
01:34:54.000 Or whatever.
01:34:55.000 The creator...
01:34:56.000 In America, it's a different TikTok than China?
01:34:58.000 Well, TikTok USA is a subsidiary of TikTok, which is owned by ByteDance.
01:35:01.000 But everything's owned by China now, right?
01:35:03.000 Correct.
01:35:03.000 So it's like it doesn't matter.
01:35:04.000 Yeah, I mean, it's not like...
01:35:05.000 This one's directly owned by China as opposed to indirectly, like John Cena.
01:35:09.000 How far can this go?
01:35:10.000 What do you mean?
01:35:10.000 In terms of, like, China's influence.
01:35:12.000 This is what's confusing, because a decade...
01:35:13.000 Could go all the way.
01:35:14.000 Right, but that's what I'm saying.
01:35:15.000 A decade ago, there was nothing.
01:35:18.000 Two decades ago, there was nothing.
01:35:19.000 That's a misconception.
01:35:21.000 Two decades ago?
01:35:49.000 Guess what?
01:35:49.000 The Chinese, because they have a state-run economy, come up and they gobble up a huge portion of American manufacturing, of a lot of our companies which were cash-strapped, who needed cash injections.
01:36:01.000 The Chinese are like, oh, here, we're right here.
01:36:02.000 They're fake billionaires who are all propped up by the Chinese government.
01:36:07.000 Around 2010 is when you could see some of this happening.
01:36:10.000 Actually, weirdly enough, Obama produced a very good documentary on this called American Factory, which is on Netflix.
01:36:16.000 Oh, that is actually a great talk.
01:36:18.000 It's fantastic.
01:36:18.000 It's like this GM plant which closed and was bought by this Chinese billionaire.
01:36:23.000 And there was all this like culture clash because the Chinese are like, just work them like 24 hours a day.
01:36:28.000 And they're like, no, like we don't do that.
01:36:30.000 We have a union.
01:36:31.000 We have a union.
01:36:33.000 No, it's crazy.
01:36:35.000 You should watch it.
01:36:35.000 Yeah, it's a really good documentary.
01:36:36.000 I maintain faith in Obama for some strange reason.
01:36:40.000 You still do?
01:36:40.000 He's one of the only politicians that I think, I'm sure he got compromised once he got in there, but he's the only guy that when I hear him talk, I feel, I really genuinely feel you can tell a lot about a person by watching him talk.
01:36:53.000 Interesting.
01:36:54.000 And when I see Clinton talk, I'm like, how many people have you killed?
01:36:59.000 When I see Obama talk, I'm like, I think this is a guy that was an idealistic young man that entered into politics and slowly became intertwined in an unfixable system.
01:37:09.000 Isn't that worse, though?
01:37:10.000 Isn't it worse to see that happen?
01:37:11.000 Maybe, but what do you do?
01:37:12.000 What does a man do?
01:37:13.000 I mean, you see, like, post-presidency, I mean, he just...
01:37:17.000 He's my favorite.
01:37:18.000 Mask off, Joe.
01:37:19.000 Our friend Matt Stoller calls him the Instagram president because his first trip after presidency, he's going hanging out with, like, billionaire Richard Branson, Gotta get paid.
01:37:29.000 No, no, no.
01:37:29.000 That's it.
01:37:30.000 See, isn't that the problem?
01:37:31.000 It's time.
01:37:31.000 Which is that Obama has actually tried to turn himself into this culture, like, becoming his wife's book.
01:37:37.000 That was a fucking stadium tour across the country.
01:37:40.000 That was the best-selling book in this country.
01:37:41.000 Yeah.
01:37:42.000 Right?
01:37:52.000 I saw this recent thing where it was like, Obama implores Chicago business community to go against environmental activists who oppose his new library in Chicago.
01:38:05.000 And look like whatever he can do whatever he wants.
01:38:08.000 But I was just like, man, like, You think about the insurgent campaign of Barack Hussein.
01:38:13.000 I was inspired by Obama when I was a kid.
01:38:15.000 I mean, he had this crazy name and he beat Hillary.
01:38:18.000 I was like, this is fucking crazy.
01:38:19.000 I mean, this guy beat Hillary.
01:38:21.000 And then he got elected with one of the greatest and possibly...
01:38:25.000 We will probably not see a mandate like that in popular vote for a long time because of the culture war today.
01:38:30.000 And what a missed opportunity.
01:38:31.000 What a missed opportunity.
01:38:32.000 I remember I was living abroad, though, and people were so happy.
01:38:36.000 And I was like, dude, we're going to get out of Iraq.
01:38:39.000 We're going to get out of Afghanistan.
01:38:40.000 We're going to come together.
01:38:42.000 We're going to rebuild.
01:38:43.000 And what happened?
01:38:44.000 By 2010, it was all blown to shit.
01:38:46.000 What do you think happened?
01:38:47.000 Well, Obama bought into...
01:38:50.000 I've thought a lot about this.
01:38:51.000 I think we both have, which is that he basically allowed himself to get co-opted by the political system.
01:38:56.000 He did not realize that he actually had transcended above it.
01:39:00.000 And he could have been an FDR-like figure in terms of calling for, frankly, a much more transformative program.
01:39:07.000 But really...
01:39:08.000 What he leaned into was he was trusted the generals, right?
01:39:12.000 I think the greatest mistake that he ever made, 2009, David Petraeus and many of the other generals were like, because he had run on, I'm going to fight the good war.
01:39:19.000 And they were trying to get him to do a surge in Afghanistan, which he eventually agreed to.
01:39:23.000 And he was this new president.
01:39:25.000 And they basically leaked against him about all of his inclinations not to do it.
01:39:30.000 And so he went forward, but then he also put a two-year timeline on it.
01:39:34.000 So it was the worst of all worlds.
01:39:35.000 We had thousands of troops who were killed in Afghanistan for two years, and we had a two-year deadline where we were just going to pull them out.
01:39:40.000 He didn't have the courage in order to actually fulfill the electoral mandate that he ran on.
01:39:46.000 I don't think he ever really...
01:39:47.000 I mean, I think that people projected on him what they wanted to see.
01:39:53.000 That's a good point, too.
01:39:54.000 So I think two things.
01:39:55.000 Number one, look, the obvious answer is...
01:39:58.000 Who brought him to the dance?
01:39:59.000 Who funded?
01:39:59.000 He got more Wall Street money than anyone else.
01:40:02.000 And you can draw a direct line between Obama and then the backlash to Obama is Trump.
01:40:07.000 Why?
01:40:08.000 Because when Wall Street collapsed, they bailed out all these guys.
01:40:12.000 They screwed over.
01:40:13.000 They didn't help regular homeowners.
01:40:15.000 They let the economy go to crap, didn't do what was necessary to make sure regular people were going to be OK. And so, yeah, eight years down the line, you get this huge backlash to that.
01:40:25.000 So I think that's one of the reasons.
01:40:26.000 I think he also just didn't understand the moment that he was living through.
01:40:31.000 I mean, right there, I think that that is truly a pivot point where Barack Obama's inaugurated.
01:40:37.000 You've got a majority in the House.
01:40:39.000 You've got a super majority in the Senate.
01:40:42.000 You've got a neoliberal system, you know, that sort of like Reagan era and Clinton era system that is breaking down here and around the world.
01:40:51.000 And the response to that was, let's do this like terrible health care program that's going to like modestly improve things, but mostly give away the store to the health insurance industry.
01:41:01.000 Let's bail out the banks and have zero accountability and not send a single banker to jail and let homeowners die on the vine.
01:41:08.000 Like, The moment called for a sort of more fundamental rethinking of the direction that we were heading in for the country and shoring up, making sure working class people were going to have a basic life of dignity.
01:41:22.000 And he failed to meet that moment.
01:41:23.000 And so now, you know, when I see him, I think I see a lot of cowardice.
01:41:28.000 Like, he just did an interview with a Jewish publication.
01:41:32.000 First of all, it was an email interview.
01:41:34.000 I always think those are total bullshit, where you can just send in your responses.
01:41:37.000 Someone else can draft him.
01:41:38.000 Okay, if the former president of the United States gave us an email interview, we would take it as well.
01:41:43.000 There were something like 12 questions that were asked.
01:41:46.000 He answered like five of them.
01:41:47.000 Anything that was remotely hot button.
01:41:49.000 They asked about Israel, of course.
01:41:50.000 They asked about Iran, of course.
01:41:52.000 Anything to do with those topics, he just did not respond.
01:41:55.000 And it made me think to myself, like, geez, There are—he may be the most popular politician in America right now, right?
01:42:02.000 A lot of people feel exactly like you do.
01:42:04.000 Like, this is a man who has moral clarity.
01:42:07.000 Like, this is someone who I look to as a leader.
01:42:10.000 And when have we needed that sort of moral leadership more— And instead you're just like building your brand and hanging out with Bruce Springsteen and avoiding anything that might be remotely controversial.
01:42:23.000 What's interesting about the Bruce Springsteen thing is it's not successful.
01:42:25.000 Yeah, it's a shit podcast.
01:42:27.000 Have you listened to it?
01:42:28.000 It's garbage.
01:42:29.000 I talked about it and I said it couldn't possibly be good and then I listened to it and it's worse than I thought.
01:42:34.000 It's horrible.
01:42:35.000 We played some clips on our show.
01:42:36.000 But here's my thought about it.
01:42:38.000 I feel like he could do a good one.
01:42:40.000 Yes, but he's not unchained.
01:42:41.000 What does that mean though?
01:42:43.000 What he needs to stop worrying is like, I'm not going to piss people off.
01:42:46.000 Isn't he worth like a half a billion dollars?
01:42:48.000 And isn't he like one of the most popular people in the world?
01:42:51.000 He's not at a half billion.
01:42:52.000 So what's holding him back?
01:42:53.000 He needs more.
01:42:54.000 He's got 60 million.
01:42:55.000 He's got plenty of money.
01:42:57.000 His daughters are going to be good.
01:42:59.000 But he's okay.
01:43:00.000 And he's also in his 50s, right?
01:43:01.000 So like, where does it go?
01:43:03.000 Exactly.
01:43:03.000 Where do you go with this?
01:43:04.000 And I think about that with so many people who have that kind of cultural power and already wealthy and like everything is these safe moves and they're so fearful of damaging their brand.
01:43:15.000 Well, I can tell you what happens.
01:43:16.000 As you get wealthier and wealthier, you start getting more and more paranoid.
01:43:20.000 Really?
01:43:20.000 You know what I have dreams of?
01:43:21.000 I have dreams of falling.
01:43:22.000 Really?
01:43:23.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:43:24.000 It's real weird.
01:43:25.000 Like falling into a void?
01:43:26.000 No, falling off things.
01:43:27.000 Like falling off mountains, falling out of trees.
01:43:30.000 Yeah, they're weird.
01:43:31.000 Because I realize I've gotten into this weird place where I don't have a lot of people that can relate to me.
01:43:36.000 Ah, that's interesting.
01:43:37.000 And it gets very strange.
01:43:38.000 But also, you never feel like you have enough.
01:43:41.000 There's a real sickness involved in it.
01:43:43.000 And I'm a very introspective, self-critical person.
01:43:48.000 I don't like anything I do.
01:43:50.000 So I am always examining myself.
01:43:53.000 Really?
01:43:53.000 Yeah, there's like two me's.
01:43:54.000 There's this me that can kind of just plow through everything, and then this other me that goes, what the fuck are you doing?
01:44:02.000 I'm talking to me while I'm doing it.
01:44:05.000 Really?
01:44:05.000 Is this your sauna time?
01:44:07.000 Yeah, the last 10 minutes of the sauna gets deep.
01:44:10.000 I'm close to death.
01:44:12.000 It's 200 fucking degrees in there.
01:44:14.000 I can't.
01:44:14.000 It's 10 minutes to go, and I don't want to be in there anymore.
01:44:19.000 So then I start confronting the reality that I can't make it.
01:44:22.000 I can't be in there more than the 10 minutes.
01:44:25.000 Maybe I can get another 20 out of my body before I collapse, but I'm close.
01:44:29.000 It's 200 fucking degrees in there.
01:44:31.000 Do you ever bail?
01:44:32.000 No.
01:44:33.000 Never.
01:44:33.000 There's no bailing.
01:44:35.000 You can't bail.
01:44:36.000 And your brain doesn't just shut off.
01:44:38.000 I was a swimmer, and I always felt like the minute that you just surrender to it, Getting out or stopping or whatever is just not an option is actually the moment when a lot of the suffering stops because your brain is just like sealed the exits.
01:44:54.000 That's not an option.
01:44:55.000 Well, there's still the physical suffering of the sauna.
01:44:58.000 There's no getting around it.
01:44:59.000 There's no avoiding that.
01:45:00.000 But I just do breathing exercises.
01:45:02.000 But I know in the back of my...
01:45:04.000 I play the most fucked up game.
01:45:05.000 Here's the fucked up game.
01:45:06.000 I give myself extra minutes if I think about it.
01:45:11.000 Does that work?
01:45:12.000 Yeah, it works.
01:45:13.000 I feel like that would make me think about it more.
01:45:15.000 It does work.
01:45:16.000 How many extra minutes?
01:45:17.000 I get one extra minute every time I think about it.
01:45:19.000 Wow.
01:45:19.000 Yeah, so if I say, man, I really want to get out of here.
01:45:23.000 Okay, pussy, one more minute.
01:45:25.000 Here you go.
01:45:26.000 Do the audiobooks help?
01:45:28.000 Because I know you listen to audiobooks.
01:45:29.000 Yeah, but the last 10 minutes, there's no books.
01:45:30.000 Because it's too confusing.
01:45:31.000 I can't listen.
01:45:32.000 I can't listen to anything.
01:45:33.000 Yeah, you're just too...
01:45:34.000 The last 10 minutes is just struggle.
01:45:36.000 Yeah.
01:45:37.000 So it makes me examine this very strange position that I'm in, because I see other people.
01:45:43.000 So that's one of the reasons why I'm so curious about Obama, because he's such an immensely popular, but also an immensely wealthy person.
01:45:50.000 And I know he said some things that resonate, like when he was talking about people and judging people, that human beings are very messy.
01:45:56.000 That was a good comment, actually.
01:45:58.000 It shows his wisdom.
01:45:59.000 But he could come forward.
01:46:01.000 Do you know how fucking hard it is to win two presidential elections?
01:46:04.000 His name was Barack Hussein Obama.
01:46:06.000 This is actually what pissed me off about him, which is like he won white working class voters overwhelmingly in 08, and they stuck with him in 2012, then abandoned the Democrats for Trump in 2016. He's a huge part of that story, and yet he never is introspective about it.
01:46:24.000 It's always made me so angry.
01:46:26.000 I remember he did this interview with David Remnick right after Trump won, and he was like, maybe the country just wasn't ready for me.
01:46:30.000 He's like, maybe.
01:46:32.000 And I was like, fuck you, man.
01:46:33.000 That was one of the things that he was saying to Bruce Springsteen that I thought was really odd.
01:46:38.000 They were talking about reparations.
01:46:40.000 And that he was saying, I forget what his exact words were, but something about white people were not willing to accept the idea of having responsibility for reparations.
01:46:53.000 And, you know, it's an interesting subject, right?
01:46:56.000 Because if you really take it back to the corporations that actually did benefit from slavery, they still exist.
01:47:04.000 Some of them exist.
01:47:05.000 And there's certainly deep economic ties that you can track and you can go all the way back to slavery.
01:47:13.000 But then there's people like yourself and people like myself that are children of immigrants.
01:47:18.000 I'm a grandchild of immigrants.
01:47:20.000 You're a child of immigrants.
01:47:21.000 And this is what America really is supposed to be.
01:47:24.000 The most fascinating thing about America to me is that we are all children of immigrants.
01:47:28.000 I look at the problem, the slavery problem and the reparations problem, as a massive failure of the community of America.
01:47:37.000 And I think you look at these impoverished communities, you look at these places like whether it's Baltimore or the South Side of Chicago or these places that have a deep History of poverty and of gangs and crime and violence.
01:47:50.000 And then you look at what happened during the COVID pandemic, where all of a sudden there was these trillions of dollars that were allocated to these major corporations to make sure that they didn't fail.
01:47:59.000 And my perspective is, instead of thinking of corporations, let's think of it as problems.
01:48:06.000 Like what is one of the major problems in this country?
01:48:08.000 Well, one of the major problems in this country is people that are born into communities that are fucked.
01:48:14.000 And they don't have a fair shot.
01:48:17.000 They don't have a fair chance.
01:48:19.000 They're stuck in this situation where everyone around them is involved in some sort of crime, or they're deeply impoverished, or there's gang violence, and maybe there's no family around them, and maybe the only family is the gangs.
01:48:31.000 This is the problem with America, and if we don't address this, we're going to continue to pump out the same disenfranchised, angry people that don't feel like they're represented by the system, and we've done nothing about No, nothing about it.
01:48:45.000 And he oversaw that, too.
01:48:46.000 Yeah, but what is he going to do?
01:48:48.000 Well, he could have, to your point about reparations, black homeownership was at the lowest level under Barack Obama's presidency, because it turns out black people dramatically lost their houses disproportionately.
01:48:58.000 But that was the 2008...
01:49:00.000 But he came aboard when that was happening.
01:49:02.000 Right, but he could have bailed him out, no.
01:49:04.000 Like, that was his whole thing.
01:49:05.000 Like, he was presided over the largest drop in black wealth in modern American history.
01:49:10.000 And he's out here talking about white grievance?
01:49:12.000 Now, look, I'm not saying there isn't white grievance, but Barack Obama was president of the United States with a massive democratic mandate, supermajority in the United States Senate, and then squandered it.
01:49:23.000 And this is what I mean, which is that, like, yes, Obama...
01:49:26.000 He's a smart man, and he does understand culture and all that.
01:49:30.000 But he absolves himself of many discrete choices that he made, which directly led to a lot of the problems that he's bitching about and blaming other people about.
01:49:40.000 Sorry, that's a big pet peeve of mine.
01:49:42.000 What you're talking about, though, I mean, it really it really goes very deep because what you're talking about is it turns the American dream that ideal of like anyone can make it if you just try hard.
01:49:53.000 It turns it into really a cruel joke.
01:49:55.000 So if you're a person like that, sure, you may have one one off Barack Obama, who's just like such a genius that he's able to transcend those circumstances.
01:50:05.000 And then we hold those people up like, look, The system is working.
01:50:08.000 The meritocracy is working, et cetera, et cetera.
01:50:11.000 And so in this country, you have a lot of people who struggle every day, right, just to be able to afford an apartment and start a family, put food on the table, just the basics of life.
01:50:23.000 And they think it's their fault because of the failures of that basic promise, right?
01:50:29.000 Yeah.
01:50:29.000 Where, yeah, it turns into now rather than seeing the larger problems in the country and seeing where the blame really lies, I turn it inward to, oh, it's my fault.
01:50:39.000 I must not have done something.
01:50:40.000 I must not be smart enough.
01:50:41.000 I must not be good enough.
01:50:42.000 And that just compounds the sort of sickness of it.
01:50:59.000 I saw that, yeah.
01:51:03.000 Wow.
01:51:24.000 No fucking chance.
01:51:25.000 Because he's born a small person.
01:51:27.000 Right.
01:51:28.000 There is no ifs, ands, or buts.
01:51:29.000 He's a guy that makes, I mean, he weighs 125 pounds and he's a grown man.
01:51:34.000 I mean, I can't imagine a world where a 125 pound man can beat a man who's a skilled 265 pound man like Francis Ngannou.
01:51:44.000 It's not going to happen.
01:51:45.000 That episode, by the way, was incredible.
01:51:47.000 Francis is incredible.
01:51:48.000 His story is incredible.
01:51:50.000 It's one of the most deeply moving things I've ever done.
01:51:52.000 But Brandon Moreno, this gentleman, there's the two of them together.
01:51:56.000 Incredible.
01:51:56.000 But that man, Brandon Moreno, is fucking fantastic.
01:52:00.000 I mean, he's just an incredible fighter.
01:52:02.000 I mean, an incredible athlete, an incredible example of what a human being can do.
01:52:06.000 He was a huge underdog in the first fight with Davidson Figueredo.
01:52:10.000 It turned out to be a draw.
01:52:11.000 They had a rematch Saturday night, and he won, and he won by finish.
01:52:15.000 He's incredible.
01:52:16.000 I've I love this guy.
01:52:17.000 I love his story.
01:52:18.000 I mean, I'll cry if I start talking about it.
01:52:20.000 Yeah.
01:52:21.000 No, but you're right to point to that.
01:52:23.000 But it is like that.
01:52:24.000 It's not fair.
01:52:25.000 It's just not fair.
01:52:26.000 We make weight classes because it's not fair.
01:52:29.000 Because a guy like that is not going to be able to beat a guy like Francis Ngannou.
01:52:33.000 It's not fair.
01:52:34.000 If you have some kid who's born in poverty-stricken Baltimore and you expect that kid to do as well as someone who lives in Calabasas, California, who goes to private schools, you're out of your fucking mind.
01:52:47.000 It's not fair.
01:52:48.000 And whose parents spend every day cultivating them and tutors and all that stuff.
01:52:53.000 But those assholes will say, well, you've got to work harder.
01:52:57.000 This is the myth of the meritocracy.
01:52:59.000 Another problem that we talk about.
01:53:00.000 And then they'll buy their college admissions, too, by the way.
01:53:03.000 Some of them will.
01:53:05.000 This is the lack of perspective.
01:53:07.000 And if you live inside your own bubble, like we were talking about, you don't know that these other people exist in this realm where this neighborhood, this community, where they can't get out.
01:53:18.000 They can't get out.
01:53:19.000 It's so hard.
01:53:20.000 Or maybe they have different values.
01:53:22.000 It's so hard to get out.
01:53:23.000 Everybody around you is poor, and it's so hard to get out.
01:53:27.000 And the school system is failing.
01:53:28.000 And you don't know anyone who's working in these quote-unquote jobs of the future, and they don't exist in your town.
01:53:33.000 We imitate our atmospheres.
01:53:34.000 Forget about it.
01:53:35.000 If you're around a bunch of hard-working people that are dedicated...
01:53:40.000 We're good to go.
01:53:59.000 Well, and look, you see the same thing, and I lived in Kentucky, and I've done work in West Virginia, and that's where my family's originally from, is West Virginia.
01:54:07.000 I mean, you see the same thing in Appalachia, you know, where you go in some of these towns in southern West Virginia that were coal mining towns, and that's basically gone and dead, and there's just...
01:54:18.000 There's nothing there, and it's not an accident.
01:54:21.000 Deep poverty.
01:54:22.000 It's not an accident.
01:54:23.000 That was the epicenter of the opioid crisis.
01:54:25.000 Like, people are just...
01:54:26.000 They're holding on to whatever helps them get through their day.
01:54:30.000 And that is the lie of the meritocracy, the idea that someone from there has an equal chance, they're going to make it, etc., etc.
01:54:38.000 And, you know, I don't think everyone should have the same, like, I'm not a communist here, but we're a wealthy country.
01:54:45.000 We make a choice to allow people to remain in poverty.
01:54:48.000 But here's the other thing, too.
01:54:49.000 If you're a patriot, if you're a person who believes in exception, exceptional Americans, you believe in this concept that this is a unique place, wouldn't you want less losers?
01:55:01.000 If there's more people that are out there kicking ass, it's better for everybody.
01:55:04.000 They're not patriots, Joe.
01:55:04.000 They're selfish.
01:55:06.000 I don't think they understand what it means.
01:55:09.000 This is why I think everybody needs mushrooms.
01:55:11.000 It makes you more compassionate.
01:55:14.000 It's not just mushrooms.
01:55:15.000 There's a lot of different psychedelics, including MDMA, which is like MAPS. I had Rick Doblin on recently.
01:55:21.000 They're doing a lot of work with soldiers and people with PTSD and trying to unite communities with this stuff.
01:55:27.000 There's something about our deeply ingrained ideas of conflict that are so unnecessary.
01:55:33.000 And if we could figure out a way to allocate money to help these problems in a real way, not to just align bureaucrats' pockets.
01:55:41.000 Like, yesterday on the podcast, we were showing all the salaries of the people that are working on the homeless crisis in Los Angeles.
01:55:46.000 It's like, holy shit!
01:55:48.000 Some of them are making a quarter million dollars plus a year.
01:55:51.000 It's an industrial complex.
01:55:53.000 They're farming homeless people is what they're doing.
01:55:55.000 And there's no incentive whatsoever to fix it and solve it.
01:55:59.000 If we could figure out as a country how to slowly but surely...
01:56:05.000 But there has to be an ethic, instead of looking at it tribally, instead of looking at it as like this culture war, looking at we're one giant fucking community, and what do we share in common?
01:56:16.000 We want our loved ones to be safe and happy.
01:56:18.000 We want everybody to have a good living.
01:56:20.000 We want everybody to be able to find their dream and pursue it, whatever their dream is, whatever their thing is.
01:56:25.000 And that's what we should be doing as a team.
01:56:28.000 If there was only four of us, we would look at it that way.
01:56:31.000 But when there's 400 million of us, we lose sight of things because there's a diffusion of responsibility.
01:56:36.000 And people profit off of making sure that we don't see each other that way.
01:56:40.000 They can't let us see it that way.
01:56:42.000 And this is, again, the structural thing.
01:56:45.000 There's a they there.
01:56:46.000 And I think that...
01:56:46.000 There's a lot of people with a lot of moneyed interests whenever it comes to keeping this system architecture.
01:56:52.000 And again, this was saying about the confluence.
01:56:54.000 It's not intentional.
01:56:55.000 It all just like happens to come about in a certain way.
01:56:59.000 And then coming out of that is very fucking hard.
01:57:02.000 This is the problem where I was saying about the meritocracy, which is that the biggest mistake America made is we convinced our upper class that they earned it.
01:57:12.000 So it used to be that we actually had a pretty deep sense of like noblesse oblige amongst the elite in America.
01:57:17.000 You can look at Teddy Roosevelt, the Roosevelt family.
01:57:20.000 What does that phrase mean?
01:57:21.000 Noblesse oblige, like the obligation of the nobility to give back to the lower class.
01:57:25.000 How dare you know that everybody, think that everybody knows that.
01:57:29.000 Sorry, sorry, sorry.
01:57:30.000 Do you know what he meant?
01:57:32.000 It's like the idea that to those who much is given, much is required.
01:57:36.000 With great power comes great responsibility.
01:57:39.000 So Uncle Ben.
01:57:40.000 And so when you think about what happened is that we convinced everybody that, as you're saying, Calabasas, buying your way into the college, that kid is like, I worked my fucking ass off and I got my ass.
01:57:51.000 And you're like, you're from Calabasas.
01:57:53.000 You don't even know.
01:57:54.000 About all of the things that got you to where you were and I'm not saying you didn't work very hard But there were a lot of structural things in place in order to make and then you move to New York City And you're like I'm working my fucking ass off in New York City and these poor pieces of shit down in West Virginia Why can't they just get a job?
01:58:10.000 Why don't they why doesn't their mom get them a tutor?
01:58:13.000 Why do they don't even know that that's so there are outside of the realm of the lived experience of millions of working people and the more that that happens and And remember, I think where are we at with college?
01:58:23.000 40%?
01:58:24.000 So we have like 25-30% of the population which actually genuinely believes that they, you know, earned their place to where they are.
01:58:33.000 Many cases they did, but with the help of a lot of the structures underneath them, and they feel zero obligation to their fellow American.
01:58:42.000 And not only that, now we have MSNBC, CNN, and Fox turning these two groups against each other.
01:58:48.000 I think?
01:59:10.000 Business is good.
01:59:26.000 So many of their fellow Americans.
01:59:28.000 It's just so stupid.
01:59:30.000 I don't know what you can do with that.
01:59:30.000 You've got to get them on mushrooms.
01:59:32.000 I actually want to ask you more about that.
01:59:34.000 I have more questions than that, Eric.
01:59:37.000 Did you follow any of the studies around UBI? Yes.
01:59:42.000 The Stockton, California mayor, who actually now wants to see, but he was doing this experiment there and they came out with the results of like, I think the people in that town who participated in the trial, it wasn't a lot of money they got.
01:59:54.000 It was like 500 bucks a month.
01:59:56.000 And it was incredible how actually transformative that was for people.
02:00:00.000 It was like, one guy I remember they profiled, and this was extraordinarily moving to me.
02:00:04.000 He had a job he hated.
02:00:06.000 And he was so sort of close to the edge financially and didn't have any sort of like paid leave or whatever.
02:00:13.000 Basically, you miss a day and you either lose a paycheck or lose your job.
02:00:16.000 He was so close to the edge financially, he couldn't even take one day off to go and interview for another position.
02:00:23.000 So with just that $500, it was like, okay, I can buy myself a suit and I can go interview for a different job in an area that he actually had a skill set and he was able to get that job and to be able to move forward.
02:00:35.000 And it just makes you realize, like, the whole thing is dependent on people having zero choice, right, in terms of their employers.
02:00:44.000 They can't opt out.
02:00:45.000 Being so locked into this thing that they have zero breathing room.
02:00:51.000 So, you know, a lot of the critique of UBI is always like, oh, you give people money and they're just going to spend it on like booze or Cheetos or drugs and they'll be lazy, etc., etc.
02:01:00.000 And what the results have found is actually the polar opposite.
02:01:04.000 People are able, they actually get jobs at higher rates because they have the luxury and the flexibility to get the interview closed and get the skills that they need to be able to do that.
02:01:14.000 Or to pick and choose.
02:01:15.000 To pick and choose rather than just having to take this one thing that you might have a little bit of a luxury to wait.
02:01:20.000 And so one of the things that I find fascinating that's happening right now is you've probably seen the statistics about the number of people who are quitting their jobs, the number of jobs that are going unfilled, because people actually had this experience that was forced on them over the course of the pandemic of changing their lives around.
02:01:40.000 And it created an experience of, like, reassessing the values of, okay, number one, you know, if I'm in one of these frontline industries where my health was put at risk for frickin' $7.25, or even less than that if you're working for tips, Do I really like,
02:01:57.000 do I want to go back to that?
02:01:58.000 So you have at the working class, you have massive shifts in terms of the type of work people are doing.
02:02:02.000 You have in the professional class, people moving.
02:02:05.000 You have people saying, listen, I actually liked being able to see my fucking kids during the week and remote working.
02:02:11.000 And if you want me to come back to the office, fuck you, I'm getting a different job.
02:02:13.000 I'm going in a different direction.
02:02:15.000 So you actually were in the midst of a huge worker, uncoordinated worker revolt where Where that leads, I don't think anyone could possibly say.
02:02:25.000 In fact, I think the whole ramifications of this coronavirus and what ultimately happens coming out of the pandemic, I don't think we have any idea.
02:02:31.000 But there are going to be massive ramifications for years and years to come, and we're starting to get a little taste of those reassessments and those value reassessments right now in some of the numbers that are coming out.
02:02:43.000 I see it as revenge, which is that we made a choice at the beginning, which is that Washington decided we had two choices.
02:02:49.000 We could push people into the unemployment system or what they did in Europe and what some politicians here, I think it was Josh Hawley, Bernie Sanders and a few others, put forward a proposal about payroll subsidy, basically making it so that...
02:03:00.000 Businesses could keep people on payroll, even during the lockdown.
02:03:04.000 And that way, when you come out of lockdown, your employees still work for you.
02:03:07.000 Well, we said, no, let them quit, file for unemployment.
02:03:11.000 The state system can distribute that and whatever.
02:03:13.000 So we separated people from their jobs.
02:03:16.000 When we made that choice, we fucked the business and we fucked the employees.
02:03:19.000 And we pushed them.
02:03:21.000 So we shut the business down.
02:03:22.000 We said, fuck you, basically not going to bail you out.
02:03:24.000 There was some success in this paycheck protection program.
02:03:26.000 But And I don't want to minimize that.
02:03:28.000 Some.
02:03:29.000 But not nearly what it should have been.
02:03:32.000 And many people had a lot of problems with unemployment.
02:03:35.000 They got, you know, things opened back up and then closed down.
02:03:37.000 So they were on unemployment, off unemployment, back on unemployment.
02:03:40.000 It was a total fucking mess.
02:03:41.000 And what has happened is now people are like, yeah, you know what?
02:03:44.000 Driving for Uber is kind of shitty.
02:03:46.000 They're like, I haven't done it in a year and maybe I'm not going to go back.
02:03:49.000 Or, actually, that job really kind of sucked.
02:03:52.000 Or, you know, I just don't want to do it anymore.
02:03:54.000 And so this great reassessment of work in America is happening because we were disconnected from it.
02:04:00.000 And in a way, I see the politicians are all freaking out about this right now.
02:04:03.000 This is like the number one conversation in D.C. How so?
02:04:06.000 What do you mean?
02:04:06.000 Oh, well, because the conversation is around unemployment insurance.
02:04:08.000 Because the conversation is, should we continue to have the supplemental $300 a week of unemployment insurance going to people because it's discouraging people from work?
02:04:17.000 So the basic idea is that if unemployment might be higher than a wage at a normal job, then you're basically subsidizing unemployment and you're screwing over the business.
02:04:26.000 Well, it's like, It's like, we gotta make life more miserable so that these people are forced back into the workplace at their shitty jobs for $7.25.
02:04:32.000 And it's always people that don't have shitty jobs that feel this way.
02:04:35.000 Of course!
02:04:35.000 And I actually feel...
02:04:36.000 And we never ask the question, I'm like, why don't we make the wages higher?
02:04:40.000 And I feel bad for the business.
02:04:42.000 And why don't we make the working life better so that people actually want to come back?
02:04:47.000 If you're begrudging them over a measly $300 You also could easily change it.
02:05:12.000 Yeah.
02:05:28.000 Would that though, the hiring bonus, wouldn't the employer be able to hold that over the head of the employee, that if you get fired, you lose your $300 as well?
02:05:36.000 Well, I think you could make it transferable.
02:05:37.000 So right now, it is mutually exclusive.
02:05:39.000 But I worry about companies like Amazon that are doing those kind of weird, shitty practices.
02:05:43.000 Because here's my perspective.
02:05:45.000 Imagine, let's say they didn't go union.
02:05:49.000 And let's say they just had some sort of a meeting where they managed this situation in a much better way where they gave people more time and more money and they relaxed all their standards.
02:06:06.000 They had some sort of mediation where they came to a conclusion like, listen, we want you to feel better about this.
02:06:13.000 And then you looked at the real quantifiable numbers, and you recognized that there's a significant dip in profits.
02:06:20.000 Because part of the way you make the profit is you've got to squeeze blood out of a rock.
02:06:25.000 Every dollar.
02:06:26.000 So every dollar, and it counts up, and then Jeff Bezos just keeps getting more buff, and now he's going to the moon, right?
02:06:33.000 He's flying rockets and shit.
02:06:34.000 I worked out across from him at the gym once, and I was like, is that fucking shit?
02:06:37.000 He goes after it.
02:06:39.000 I want to give it to him.
02:06:39.000 Sure he does.
02:06:40.000 He's a fucking psycho.
02:06:41.000 He absolutely goes after it.
02:06:41.000 He's a fucking psycho.
02:06:43.000 He's probably by himself.
02:06:45.000 No trainer?
02:06:46.000 How long goes this?
02:06:47.000 This was two years ago.
02:06:48.000 Dude, it was right after the sexting scandal.
02:06:50.000 And I really want to be like, have you ever heard of Signal, dude?
02:06:52.000 You know, like Signal, like disappearing messages.
02:06:54.000 Well, his problem was he opens up WhatsApp messages from Saudis.
02:06:59.000 Yes.
02:07:00.000 Did you see The Dissident?
02:07:01.000 Well, yes.
02:07:02.000 Oh, that was a great movie.
02:07:03.000 Thank you for turning me on to that.
02:07:04.000 Brian Fogel's The Dissident.
02:07:06.000 Sensational.
02:07:06.000 He details what happened.
02:07:08.000 The Saudis sent him a signal message.
02:07:12.000 Or, excuse me, a WhatsApp message.
02:07:14.000 And he clicked a link.
02:07:15.000 And that link used Pegasus, which is the Israeli app that allows them to get full access to his phone.
02:07:21.000 Oh, no.
02:07:22.000 They got pictures of him and his lovely lady friend.
02:07:24.000 But by the way, who gives a shit?
02:07:26.000 Yeah.
02:07:26.000 No, I don't care.
02:07:27.000 But I do want to address this because this is actually important.
02:07:30.000 So the Saudis did hack his phone, Joe, but apparently it's his girlfriend's brother who sold those texts to the National Enquirer.
02:07:35.000 How do you know that's true, though?
02:07:37.000 Because he admitted it came out in court.
02:07:39.000 Emails between Michael Sanchez, Lawrence Sanchez's brother, and the National Enquirer.
02:07:44.000 So this all came out in the court of law.
02:07:46.000 And this is a crazy story.
02:07:47.000 I actually did a whole monologue on this because it's how Bezos actually weaponized his ownership of the Washington Post to benefit his bottom line, which is he made it seem like the Saudis targeted him.
02:07:58.000 Right.
02:08:02.000 Right.
02:08:05.000 Right.
02:08:27.000 So what Bezos did, he did this masterful PR campaign where he's like, the Saudis are targeting me because I was Jamal Khashoggi's boss.
02:08:36.000 And he made it into this whole, like, moral fight when it was really like a family squabble.
02:08:41.000 Has this been proven?
02:08:42.000 Yeah, it's all out there.
02:08:44.000 Has the brother admitted it?
02:08:46.000 I don't think he's admitted it, but his emails are public record because of a court case.
02:08:50.000 So his emails exposed the text messages?
02:08:51.000 His emails with the National Enquirer.
02:08:53.000 He's selling the email, selling the text messages.
02:08:56.000 Isn't that gross about his sister?
02:08:59.000 That's the wrong guy to fuck over.
02:09:01.000 Right.
02:09:02.000 Right.
02:09:02.000 Because he's a ruthless guy who works out by himself.
02:09:04.000 Exactly.
02:09:05.000 And he used to be a poor guy selling books out of a garage.
02:09:08.000 And now he wants to be the king of the universe.
02:09:10.000 He is the king of the universe.
02:09:11.000 He looks like Lex Luthor.
02:09:12.000 And we were going to say that mentality of wanting more and more.
02:09:16.000 Do you get that?
02:09:17.000 Oh, I get it.
02:09:18.000 That's the thing I can't comprehend.
02:09:19.000 I'm like, you're the richest man on the planet.
02:09:21.000 I'm telling you.
02:09:24.000 And you would still be richer than you could ever spend the money.
02:09:28.000 Help me understand that.
02:09:29.000 It's a quantifiable thing.
02:09:32.000 Like if you're playing a numbers game, if you're used to 100 and then you get 200, now you're used to 200. If you're used to 200 and you get 300, you're used to 300. If you find out you get 1,000, you get that 1,000.
02:09:43.000 Then you have 1,000 and you're like, you know, I heard there's a guy who has 10,000.
02:09:46.000 Holy shit, how does he get 10,000?
02:09:48.000 Well, he worked extra hard and he fucked his employees with him.
02:09:52.000 Do you think that's a human thing?
02:09:54.000 Yes.
02:09:54.000 It's a number thing.
02:09:56.000 It's a game thing.
02:09:56.000 Do you think that that's just a characteristic of people who become wildly wealthy like him?
02:10:01.000 Do you think that part of the reason that he became wildly wealthy is he was different than other humans and that he had this obsessive thing?
02:10:08.000 There's two factors.
02:10:10.000 There's that, and there's also the factor that what he's doing is trying to be wildly wealthy.
02:10:14.000 So you're trying to tell a guy to not go so fast when you have the fastest car in the world.
02:10:18.000 Right.
02:10:19.000 So you're in a race, but you're like, lay off the gas a little bit, buddy.
02:10:22.000 What a person like that needs is some other extraneous competition that thrills him, whether it's mountain hiking.
02:10:30.000 Oh, now he has space.
02:10:32.000 Yeah, I don't think that's really going to do it because that's part of his brand.
02:10:36.000 It's almost like he needs an actual, like maybe he needs to take up chess.
02:10:40.000 You know what I'm saying?
02:10:41.000 Oh, he's becoming a triathlon runner or something.
02:10:43.000 Yes, something along the, that's probably better, right?
02:10:46.000 Because that's like a real struggle.
02:10:48.000 But there needs to be something in which he's kicking ass.
02:10:51.000 Because he obviously was, no disrespect Jeff, He's a nerdy little guy, right?
02:10:56.000 And now he's a beast, right?
02:10:58.000 If you look at the pictures of what he used to look like versus what he looks like now, he's clearly on testosterone.
02:11:03.000 Like, you know what I can tell you?
02:11:05.000 Because I am, bitch.
02:11:07.000 I know what it does.
02:11:08.000 You know the sign.
02:11:08.000 I know what it does.
02:11:09.000 His traps are huge.
02:11:10.000 He was doing the lat pull.
02:11:11.000 I was like, holy shit.
02:11:12.000 He's a big jack guy.
02:11:13.000 Well, that's a lot.
02:11:15.000 Don't actually work your traps.
02:11:16.000 Traps actually go up.
02:11:17.000 Sorry, everyone.
02:11:18.000 No worries.
02:11:18.000 But you can go this way and get your traps.
02:11:21.000 But anyway, the point is like what he's doing is he is conquering.
02:11:26.000 It is a natural human characteristic.
02:11:28.000 He's conquering and he's figured out a way to conquer and do it where he gets some criticism, but he can kind of justify it.
02:11:38.000 And yet he's still plowing forward with this monolith that he's created.
02:11:41.000 And now this monolith has become virtually unstoppable.
02:11:45.000 It's become this massive thing that you use, I use, we all use.
02:11:49.000 I use Amazon basically every day.
02:11:51.000 I'm a fucking giant customer.
02:11:52.000 It's unavoidable.
02:11:53.000 I don't go to the store for toothpaste when I can just click on the thing and I get that toothpaste sent to my fucking mailbox.
02:11:57.000 My problem is by the time I get to the store, I'm going to forget what I fucking went through.
02:12:00.000 I got shit to do.
02:12:02.000 I'm out here conquering, but I'm not.
02:12:04.000 See, I understand the motivation behind it because it's a natural human characteristic.
02:12:10.000 If you have, you want more, and if all you do is business, because he's a businessman, those guys are the most susceptible to this trait, this characteristic, rather.
02:12:21.000 This thing, this inclination.
02:12:23.000 This inclination is to continue to try to win this game.
02:12:26.000 How have you found ways to step out of that?
02:12:29.000 Or do you think you've fallen susceptible to it in some ways?
02:12:31.000 I'm a comedian.
02:12:31.000 It's a different thing.
02:12:32.000 I've made money accidentally.
02:12:33.000 All my money has been made by doing the same thing.
02:12:36.000 I just...
02:12:36.000 I don't think about...
02:12:38.000 I mean, I'm obviously aware of money, but when I do stuff, I just do...
02:12:43.000 I don't seek out only celebrities or do...
02:12:47.000 One of the things that we're talking about, the Howard Stern thing, and I'm, by the way, giant Howard Stern fan.
02:12:52.000 I think he's the number one reason why I can do what I do.
02:12:56.000 If it wasn't for him, he's the seed.
02:12:58.000 Like, Lenny Bruce is the seed that led to Richard Pryor, that led to Bill Hicks and Sam Kinison, that led to me, and Chris Rock and Chappelle and all these guys.
02:13:09.000 We all owe Lenny Bruce.
02:13:11.000 He was the first.
02:13:12.000 Howard Stern is the first in this genre.
02:13:14.000 He's the first guy that started talking about real shit and taking chances.
02:13:19.000 He got sued by the FCC. It's a totally different thing, what he experienced.
02:13:26.000 And he's not the same guy that he was then because he doesn't have to be because now he's worth a billion dollars.
02:13:32.000 But one of the things that they were doing in this meeting that was leaked He was saying, we've got to get celebrities.
02:13:39.000 We need an A celebrity and a B celebrity.
02:13:42.000 It's all about raise those numbers up, raise those numbers up.
02:13:46.000 I never think of that.
02:13:48.000 I don't care.
02:13:49.000 If I meet a guy at a gas station and he's cool, I'll go, what do you do?
02:13:52.000 And he's like, I make fucking flowers out of metal.
02:13:56.000 And I'll just go, what do you mean?
02:13:58.000 Come over here.
02:13:59.000 Let's talk.
02:14:00.000 And I'll talk to him.
02:14:02.000 I don't...
02:14:03.000 What I started doing, I keep doing.
02:14:06.000 What I started doing was talking to my friends, and then I got a chance to talk to some interesting people, like Graham Hancock was one of the first guests, and I got a chance to talk to these people, and I'm like, oh, now that I get X amount of downloads, I can get these fucking cool people to talk to me.
02:14:21.000 Because I didn't have a way to get them to talk to me before.
02:14:25.000 The idea that I could get a guy like Randall Carlson to sit across from me for three hours with no phones, with no nothing, and talk to me about his theory about how the human race has been reset multiple times.
02:14:38.000 Because of asteroid impacts and explain it because there's a comet that comes into our neighborhood every X amount of thousands of years and it's trackable and it's also trackable by core samples.
02:14:50.000 When they do core samples they find all this nuclear glass that indicates impacts and this impacts coincides with the drop off of civilization.
02:14:57.000 Also the changing of the climate and the ice age is like, holy shit I can get a guy like that?
02:15:02.000 That's what I'm into.
02:15:04.000 I'm not into money.
02:15:06.000 Money's great.
02:15:07.000 I don't want to worry about money.
02:15:08.000 But clearly for the Bezoses or like the Warren Buffets of the world or whatever, like the money was the point.
02:15:12.000 If it wasn't the point, it becomes the point.
02:15:15.000 With Warren Buffet, I think he's an investor.
02:15:18.000 He's in the money.
02:15:18.000 He's a businessman.
02:15:19.000 It is the money.
02:15:19.000 Right.
02:15:20.000 With Bill Gates, it's probably something that came along, right?
02:15:22.000 Because he was a coder.
02:15:23.000 He was interested in computer programs.
02:15:25.000 He was interested in operating systems.
02:15:27.000 And along the way, you start protecting your investments and your assets.
02:15:31.000 And next thing you know, you're balling.
02:15:33.000 And when you're ballin' and you're hangin' out with Jeffy Epstein on Fuck Island, you know, all of it gets crazy, right?
02:15:40.000 That report that came out where he was like, Gates routinely would complain about Melinda to Epstein.
02:15:47.000 I'm like...
02:15:47.000 He was getting relationship advice with Jeffrey Epstein?
02:15:51.000 That's the same as Jeff Bezos saying people are lazy.
02:15:56.000 We don't know if that's real.
02:15:57.000 It probably comes from Melinda's divorce team, props to her.
02:16:03.000 Some of the stuff we're learning here is completely...
02:16:05.000 By the way, that guy fucked.
02:16:06.000 You give that lady whatever the fuck she wants.
02:16:09.000 You're worth $150 billion.
02:16:12.000 Give her what she wants.
02:16:14.000 Why wouldn't you anyway?
02:16:15.000 But it's that mentality.
02:16:17.000 That's what it is.
02:16:19.000 You really want her to go out and talk about Jeffrey Epstein?
02:16:22.000 Just give her whatever she wants.
02:16:23.000 You still have billions.
02:16:24.000 It's all so utterly bizarre.
02:16:27.000 Well, I read about this.
02:16:28.000 This actually came out as a result of the divorce.
02:16:30.000 We talked about it on the show, about his Nobel meeting.
02:16:32.000 So, Gates is obsessed with getting a Nobel Peace Prize.
02:16:36.000 Obsessed.
02:16:37.000 He's like, I want the Nobel Peace Prize.
02:16:38.000 Because now he has billions, he's like, I need the Nobel Peace Prize.
02:16:40.000 That's his new thing, right?
02:16:41.000 I think we're good to go.
02:16:59.000 Bill Gates and Epstein.
02:17:00.000 I think this was in his house in Norway, or maybe it was a meeting in France.
02:17:05.000 But that is part of what, because I keep asking the question.
02:17:07.000 I'm like, what is Leon Black?
02:17:09.000 He's an Apollo billionaire, nine billion.
02:17:11.000 What can he get from Jeffrey Epstein he can't get anywhere else?
02:17:14.000 What's an Apollo billionaire?
02:17:15.000 Apollo Management.
02:17:17.000 It's a private equity fund.
02:17:18.000 He's a Wall Street titan.
02:17:20.000 And so he's the one who came out.
02:17:21.000 He paid Epstein $150 million for fucking tax advice.
02:17:25.000 So a guy worth $9 billion can't get taxes.
02:17:29.000 You can call the head of Goldman Sachs.
02:17:30.000 You call Jamie Dimon.
02:17:32.000 And I'd be like, I need your fucking best tax guy right now.
02:17:34.000 And of course, Jamie Dimon is going to give him his best tax guy.
02:17:36.000 Whomever.
02:17:37.000 So like, what was Jeffrey Epstein offering Leon Black and Bill Gates that they could not get anywhere else?
02:17:42.000 Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world.
02:17:43.000 And you start to see how these networks of power—this was Epstein's superpower—is he was like, oh, I can get you a meeting with the Nobel Committee.
02:17:51.000 He's like, I'm facilitating—and remember, he knew all these scientists.
02:17:54.000 I talked to Lex Friedman about this when I was a little bit on his podcast.
02:17:57.000 I was like, how did this happen?
02:17:59.000 And he's like, well, you know, all these nerds who are like MIT scientists and like he just cared, right?
02:18:03.000 Like he took an interest in them.
02:18:05.000 So he took and facilitated this whole network.
02:18:09.000 And Gates is trying to like use Epstein to get himself the Nobel Peace Prize.
02:18:14.000 I'm like, this is so insane because it reveals the pathology of Gates where it's like being one of the richest men in the world is not enough.
02:18:20.000 I have to have the recognition that I saved lives.
02:18:23.000 Can I offer an alternative theory?
02:18:25.000 Please.
02:18:25.000 What if Epstein realized that Gates' ego is easy to stroke and that he's a nerd that never got laid and that he could maybe bring him around some beautiful young ladies and then say, you know what I can do for you?
02:18:36.000 I can get you the Nobel Prize.
02:18:37.000 Maybe it wasn't Gates' idea at all.
02:18:39.000 Maybe he was corrupted by the lifestyle.
02:18:41.000 Maybe you're right.
02:18:42.000 It repeats itself over and over again.
02:18:45.000 Right, because that was his whole business.
02:18:48.000 We don't know what Epstein's exact affiliation with intelligence communities and Mossad and all that shit was, but let's assume he knew some people that knew how to manipulate folks.
02:19:01.000 If you're looking at a guy like Bill Gates, you ever see him dance?
02:19:04.000 Oh, horrible.
02:19:05.000 Let me show you him dance.
02:19:05.000 Have you seen him dance?
02:19:06.000 No, but I would like to now.
02:19:08.000 Let's see him dance.
02:19:09.000 Pull up Bill Gates dancing.
02:19:11.000 We'd understand something about a human being that dances the way he dances.
02:19:16.000 You know, look at this.
02:19:17.000 Here we go.
02:19:18.000 Oh boy.
02:19:19.000 Watch him dancing.
02:19:19.000 You see that?
02:19:21.000 I'm sorry I asked for this.
02:19:23.000 If I saw that, and I'd be like, I can get Bill to a party and I can talk him into almost anything.
02:19:29.000 If I see that guy, if I could spend some time with him and bring him to a fucking island, filled with hotties, some of them which may or may not be 18. Look at him.
02:19:38.000 Look at him dance around.
02:19:39.000 Look at him.
02:19:40.000 Come on.
02:19:41.000 Listen, this is exactly what we're talking about.
02:19:44.000 I don't hate the guy.
02:19:46.000 I use Microsoft.
02:19:48.000 I type on a Windows laptop.
02:19:50.000 I don't have a problem with him.
02:19:51.000 I don't.
02:19:52.000 I see him as a human being.
02:19:53.000 And I see where he is as a human story.
02:20:00.000 It's an amazingly alien proposition to be a man who is worth $150 billion.
02:20:08.000 It's fucking bananas.
02:20:10.000 And then also to be this guy that has massive amounts of influence and massive amounts of eyes on him.
02:20:17.000 And he's a guy who dances like that.
02:20:18.000 And he dances like that.
02:20:19.000 And that is the power.
02:20:21.000 Bill Gates basically runs global public health.
02:20:25.000 And this has become a major problem in terms of getting vaccines distributed to the rest of the world.
02:20:30.000 And not just with this, also in the AIDS epidemic.
02:20:33.000 He believes very much in monopoly patent power.
02:20:38.000 And so he sides with all the pharmaceutical companies in making sure that their patent monopolies are enforced.
02:20:44.000 You know, whether you like him or not, etc., etc., the idea that you have these few billionaires that have so much control.
02:20:52.000 I mean, Bezos basically controls the U.S. labor market.
02:20:55.000 Bill Gates basically controls public health.
02:20:57.000 And that's not to say that he hasn't done some good things there, but it's a scary thing to just like outsource money.
02:21:03.000 All of what we're doing in a certain sphere to a guy who dances like that.
02:21:07.000 Isn't it a weird thing that's going on right now with the patents and the vaccines?
02:21:11.000 Because the narrative has always been we have to get everyone vaccinated.
02:21:16.000 It's so important to get everyone vaccinated.
02:21:18.000 And now the narrative is we can't give up this intellectual property because it will take these people too long to manufacture these vaccines.
02:21:25.000 And they're like, the fuck it would.
02:21:27.000 They're ready right now.
02:21:28.000 No, the factory owners are like, no, actually, we're ready.
02:21:31.000 We could have been doing hundreds of millions of doses by now.
02:21:34.000 Okay, this is huge.
02:21:36.000 So the pharmaceutical industry will tell you, we're investing in life-saving research, and that's why we need this patent protection, etc., etc.
02:21:46.000 Every one of the new drug molecules developed over the past decade has been funded by public research.
02:21:54.000 What they're good at is taking that public research and bringing a product to market.
02:21:59.000 Okay, mRNA technology used in the vaccine.
02:22:02.000 That wasn't started.
02:22:03.000 That was publicly funded research over decades that now they are profiting off of massively.
02:22:09.000 These vaccines will be some of the most profitable drugs in history, but it's not enough for them.
02:22:13.000 So, yeah, they're full of a pack of lies.
02:22:16.000 And Bill Gates went on TV and said the same thing like, oh, well, these factories aren't really up to snuff and it's not going to work, etc., etc.
02:22:23.000 Just totally carrying water for them because he has an ideological commitment to the shit that they're saying.
02:22:27.000 Meanwhile, the Johnson& Johnson factory just had to get rid of 60 million doses.
02:22:30.000 Right.
02:22:31.000 Yeah.
02:22:32.000 Well, and there were problems there.
02:22:33.000 That was the one in, I think it was outside of Baltimore.
02:22:36.000 And there'd been problems there before.
02:22:38.000 And politicians had just looked the other way with a well-placed campaign contribution, I'm sure.
02:22:44.000 And so, yeah, I mean, the whole thing, the whole, our entire healthcare system is just a total fraud is the bottom line.
02:22:50.000 Well, it's a funded thing for profit.
02:22:54.000 And all things for profit eventually lean towards generating the most amount of profit possible.
02:23:01.000 Yes.
02:23:01.000 But also, socialism doesn't work either.
02:23:04.000 But this is the thing.
02:23:05.000 It's a human thing in that human beings are these weird, messy creatures.
02:23:10.000 And we don't have a clear binary solution.
02:23:14.000 It's not a one or a zero.
02:23:15.000 It's not a black or a white.
02:23:16.000 Medicare is more efficient and has better results in the private healthcare system, though.
02:23:20.000 It does, but does it generate the kind of vaccines that they've been able to pump out?
02:23:26.000 Yeah, that's what I'm just saying.
02:23:27.000 The government funded all this stuff.
02:23:29.000 This was all public research that basically all these vaccines have been built off of.
02:23:32.000 The last decade, every single new drug developed by the public research.
02:23:36.000 So do you think that it's possible that they could do some sort of a non-for-profit government distribution of pharmaceutical products?
02:23:43.000 Yes, I absolutely think that's the case.
02:23:45.000 So do you think that that would be the way to do it, to counteract the fact that there's a for-profit pharmaceutical...
02:23:50.000 Yes, I do.
02:23:51.000 Well, let me just say this, because I think your point is bigger than just the healthcare system, right?
02:23:58.000 When you have it just be about profits, and profits are the only, like, what are you incentivizing?
02:24:03.000 You're not actually incentivizing health.
02:24:06.000 What you're incentivizing is people to have chronic illnesses that require a lot of treatment.
02:24:10.000 Oh, lo and behold, America has a lot of chronic illnesses that require repeated treatment.
02:24:15.000 You're actually incentivizing a system to keep people sick.
02:24:19.000 So it's not a surprise then when that's the result that you ultimately get.
02:24:23.000 And that's where, you know, this country, what I said earlier of like, the only value is money.
02:24:29.000 There are some fields where maybe that makes sense.
02:24:31.000 But in a place like healthcare, where we're talking about people's health, We're in a place like education, where we're talking about people just learning and acquiring knowledge.
02:24:38.000 There's all these fears.
02:24:39.000 When I think about drug legalization, it's the same thing that I'm concerned about.
02:24:43.000 Are these just going to become another quiver in the air of big pharma?
02:24:47.000 There are these areas of life that there should be values other than just profit maximization.
02:24:54.000 This is where I think that the big realignment that's happening is around that.
02:24:58.000 Look, we had a system and we've recognized the power of American capitalism and profit in order to generate extraordinary things.
02:25:04.000 But we can't erase the government role in Operation Warp Speed and bringing the vaccines to bear.
02:25:09.000 And there's actually I forget what the terminology is called.
02:25:12.000 Where whenever so much government subsidy or whatever is involved, the government has the ability in order to waive vaccine IP protection and actually not necessarily seize it or whatever, but they march in right marching rights.
02:25:24.000 Right.
02:25:24.000 So they have the ability to come in and say, no, we're going to distribute it X way and do this, this and this.
02:25:29.000 That is what we've lost, which is that what we have lost is the recognition of the power of the government and the socialized benefits of a lot of this.
02:25:38.000 Infrastructure is another example.
02:25:39.000 Big fight happening right now.
02:25:41.000 The big one is around, how are you going to pay for it?
02:25:44.000 And deficit questions and all of that aside, a huge portion of the senators want user fees.
02:25:51.000 And what does that mean?
02:25:51.000 They want fucking gas taxes.
02:25:53.000 They want to tax regular working class Americans to pay for all these brand new roads.
02:26:00.000 Now, first of all, infrastructure is the one thing you probably should deficit finance, if there is such a thing, because it can explode economic benefits.
02:26:08.000 It's an investment.
02:26:08.000 Exactly.
02:26:09.000 And, you know, all the benefits that come from that are massive.
02:26:12.000 But who is also the beneficiary of so much of this?
02:26:16.000 Amazon.
02:26:17.000 I mean, do you think better roads aren't going to help Amazon delivery times?
02:26:20.000 Should Amazon maybe not pay for some of this?
02:26:22.000 Should Walmart not pay for some of this?
02:26:25.000 Walmart's distribution system is West in class, right?
02:26:28.000 How do you think they fucking get there?
02:26:29.000 The American highway system.
02:26:31.000 But a lot of these senators and the Chamber of Commerce and all these other people are like, no.
02:26:36.000 And that's actually effectively a tax on the South because a lot of people drive here more than up North.
02:26:41.000 So we're talking about user fees, average working people, drivers and others.
02:26:45.000 They're going to pay for the new roads and then Amazon can offer you like three-hour delivery or two-hour delivery.
02:26:51.000 This is the problem that we have, which is that What they want, the current structure, is for people to pay for the stuff that everybody benefits them.
02:27:00.000 And increasingly, as they are benefiting from everything, they want to even continue to push down every single dollar towards people.
02:27:07.000 The gas tax thing, it makes me so angry because, first of all, the politically stupidest thing you can do is raise taxes on gas.
02:27:15.000 Nobody, people are going to freak out.
02:27:17.000 But really what it is, is that that is a tax on the poor.
02:27:20.000 And that is what we want to push down for everything.
02:27:24.000 And I just see this like all across the system.
02:27:26.000 Like we're pushing all of the costs down in the personal financial system and more like late fees and all of this.
02:27:32.000 And I understand like the problems in creating banks and all that.
02:27:36.000 But one of the things that we've discovered is that it's So much more expensive to be poor in America than it is...
02:27:43.000 It's like you get all this free shit apparently when you're rich or whenever you have money in your bank account.
02:27:47.000 Like, oh, then we're going to waive this fee or waive that.
02:27:50.000 But when you're poor, oh, you can't have a real bank.
02:27:53.000 You have to go pay a fee to get a money order or something.
02:27:57.000 All of these things just stack up and they become a structural inability in order for you to move up the ladder.
02:28:04.000 And we see this in everything.
02:28:05.000 Well, and we just found from those leaks of the tax returns of the nations of all these people, they're paying nothing in taxes!
02:28:12.000 Well, the Elon Musk thing was so strange because he gets paid in loans.
02:28:17.000 Right!
02:28:17.000 Yeah, so he doesn't really get money from...
02:28:21.000 Well, because he owns something and he borrows against it.
02:28:24.000 And you know what's interesting is apparently in that very first Supreme Court case that said, like, essentially you can't tax things that you haven't had a cash-out event, there were scholars at the time that predicted exactly...
02:28:37.000 The method that Elon and many others use to avoid.
02:28:40.000 So since he's taking a loan and living off the proceeds of the loan, he's not technically cashing out his shares.
02:28:46.000 And so there isn't a taxable event, quote unquote.
02:28:50.000 What is he supposed to do, though, in that circumstance?
02:28:53.000 In what circumstance?
02:28:54.000 In that circumstance.
02:28:54.000 We were talking about that he gets paid in loans.
02:28:57.000 I didn't understand it, because I'm looking at him like, wait a minute, okay, okay.
02:29:01.000 He's worth $150 billion, right?
02:29:04.000 But once you're worth $150 billion, like, let's imagine you have earned $150 billion.
02:29:09.000 You have that $150 billion in the bank.
02:29:12.000 Do you have to pay taxes on that?
02:29:13.000 No, you don't.
02:29:14.000 You do have to pay property taxes, and you do have to pay whatever...
02:29:17.000 He doesn't own property, right?
02:29:18.000 Right.
02:29:19.000 I was going to get to that.
02:29:20.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:29:21.000 California.
02:29:21.000 So he does have to pay in California because he spends a considerable amount of time in California.
02:29:26.000 So he pays California state taxes.
02:29:28.000 He pays property taxes on this one thing in the Bay Area.
02:29:31.000 But what is he supposed to do?
02:29:33.000 Well, it's less a story about him.
02:29:36.000 I mean, they obviously go to all these elaborate means to avoid any taxable event.
02:29:39.000 But I think what he's doing is not wrong.
02:29:41.000 It's not illegal.
02:29:43.000 It's not illegal.
02:29:44.000 But what should he be doing?
02:29:45.000 The problem isn't necessarily him.
02:29:47.000 The problem is a system that enables the richest among us to pay zero in taxes.
02:29:51.000 That's the issue.
02:29:52.000 But if he's genuinely not making an income, Because he just takes loans off of the money.
02:29:58.000 This is around capital gains.
02:29:59.000 Because I'm sure he's had to sell some stock, as well as Jeff Bezos.
02:30:02.000 Instead of engaging in all the financial engineering, like, let me take out a loan, etc., he could just cash on some of the stock.
02:30:08.000 But then that would be a taxable event.
02:30:10.000 It still would be taxed at less than if a regular wage earner is earning income.
02:30:16.000 He's a unique situation, though, because he looks at money as an attack vector.
02:30:21.000 And I don't...
02:30:22.000 I talk to him about it.
02:30:23.000 I don't understand the perspective.
02:30:25.000 Like, why worry about it?
02:30:26.000 Right.
02:30:26.000 He's like, because people hate on him because he's a billionaire.
02:30:28.000 It's like, being a billionaire is an attack vector.
02:30:31.000 So I'm giving up all my homes.
02:30:33.000 An attack vector?
02:30:33.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:30:34.000 Because people are going to tell, look at you, your fucking big fancy house.
02:30:37.000 Like, I own nothing.
02:30:38.000 So he owns nothing.
02:30:39.000 See, the conversation's actually...
02:30:41.000 This is convoluted around Elon.
02:30:43.000 Well, this is why.
02:30:43.000 Because he's not really concerned with making a shitload of money.
02:30:47.000 He makes a shitload of money.
02:30:49.000 He is a very unique guy.
02:30:51.000 And I can speak to this personally from my personal, no one around...
02:30:56.000 That's not what he's thinking about.
02:30:57.000 He's thinking about putting people on Mars.
02:30:59.000 He's thinking about making the most insane cars to get people to adopt electric cars.
02:31:03.000 He's thinking about drilling holes under the ground to make people go through tunnels so that we don't have any traffic.
02:31:09.000 He's thinking about making solar power with roof tiles so it makes it efficient and easy for people to adopt.
02:31:15.000 He really is thinking about all these things.
02:31:18.000 What I'm thinking about is a system that would have a regular wage earner, like earning 60K a year or whatever, paying higher taxes than someone who's a billionaire.
02:31:28.000 That's what I'm thinking about, which is insane.
02:31:29.000 And you know, really, too, around the billionaire conversation, it always drives me crazy, we think of billionaires in America as Bezos, Elon, and all of those.
02:31:37.000 That's actually not how you become a billionaire.
02:31:38.000 We crunched the numbers for Forbes 2020. The number one predominant way that you become a billionaire in America today is private equity and hedge funds.
02:31:47.000 It's just financial engineering, trading money, making front-running trades in terms of the whole Robin Hood thing, Citadel, Ken Griffin.
02:31:55.000 That's how you make...
02:31:55.000 You don't...
02:31:56.000 Look, if we lived in a country where we made billions with Elon, I would be very, very happy because we're creating shit.
02:32:03.000 Even Bezos.
02:32:04.000 Look, a lot of Bezos hate.
02:32:06.000 Amazon is fucking incredible.
02:32:07.000 You know what's not incredible?
02:32:08.000 Silver Lake Capital Management, where you don't fucking do anything.
02:32:12.000 And you're basically just a leech on the American financial system driving up taxes or driving up the prices of stocks because you're front-running people's trades and you're making it so that you make.0003 dollars more per trade.
02:32:25.000 And if you do that at scale, you become a billionaire.
02:32:28.000 That's how you actually become a billionaire in America today.
02:32:30.000 Let's also not pretend that it's like an accident.
02:32:34.000 Oprah's cool.
02:32:35.000 Shout out to Oprah.
02:32:35.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:32:36.000 Shout out to Oprah.
02:32:37.000 I like Oprah.
02:32:38.000 I've got issues with Oprah, too.
02:32:39.000 Anyway, I mean, so let's not pretend that it's an accident that we have the tax system that we have.
02:32:47.000 Yes.
02:32:47.000 Right?
02:32:47.000 Let's not pretend that.
02:32:48.000 So at the January 5th, the day before the January 6th thing happened, Mm-hmm.
02:33:09.000 So he like writes out, gets zero coverage because the riot happens and understandably people are paying attention to that.
02:33:15.000 But, you know, the hundreds of millions of dollars are spent in Washington over, you know, the past decade just from the private equity industry lobbying forces to make sure I think?
02:33:44.000 This is a bedrock principle of fairness.
02:33:46.000 The sense that everybody's got skin in the game, that this is a more or less, you know, nobody expects anything to be 100% fair, 100%, but that this is more or less fair.
02:33:56.000 And then you look at, like, you know, Elon Musk's Secretary or the person who's like delivering this or security guard or whatever.
02:34:04.000 He's paying a higher tax rate than the billionaire.
02:34:08.000 That's fucked up.
02:34:09.000 And so when you have that realization throughout the public, it really does destroy just sort of the faith in the nation as a whole.
02:34:16.000 In the New York Times story, this made me so angry.
02:34:19.000 They quoted somebody from the IRS. You are three times more likely to be audited if you make less than $25,000 a year than you are if you're one of these private equity people.
02:34:29.000 Three times more likely.
02:34:30.000 They audit people that make less than $25,000 a year?
02:34:33.000 Think about what it means to make $25,000 a year in America.
02:34:36.000 You're fucking poor.
02:34:37.000 You are a blown tire away from bankruptcy.
02:34:40.000 That's so insane.
02:34:41.000 That is bullshit.
02:34:42.000 Is that because they're auditing waitresses?
02:34:45.000 Exactly.
02:34:46.000 It's probably cash tips and bartenders.
02:34:48.000 But you know what?
02:34:49.000 That's bullshit.
02:34:51.000 The IRS's funding has been so stripped over decades that they don't have the resources.
02:34:56.000 Going after the private equity guys is very complex.
02:34:59.000 Millions.
02:35:00.000 It takes millions of dollars to investigate all their fucking legal structures and partnerships.
02:35:04.000 They've got lawyers backing them up and all that.
02:35:05.000 So they go after, because their funding has been so stripped down, they go after the low-hanging fruit.
02:35:09.000 And so you're much, much, much more likely to be audited if you are a working class person than if you're a wealthy person.
02:35:15.000 $25,000.
02:35:15.000 Think about what that means to make $25,000 a year.
02:35:19.000 It's so crazy because who are they saving and how much are they saving?
02:35:23.000 We got an extra thousand dollars, but how much money?
02:35:26.000 Imagine if someone is screwing over their taxes by a thousand bucks.
02:35:31.000 How much money does it cost to find that out?
02:35:34.000 Exactly.
02:35:35.000 But isn't it a business?
02:35:37.000 There's a business of making sure that homelessness doesn't really get resolved because then you'd lose your quarter million dollar a year job.
02:35:43.000 I think it's just necessity.
02:35:45.000 It's just necessity.
02:35:46.000 Humans.
02:35:47.000 Humans are weird.
02:35:49.000 We're not supposed to be doing this.
02:35:50.000 This is a whole new thing we've been plugged into.
02:35:53.000 What do you mean?
02:35:54.000 Capitalism, society, all of it.
02:35:56.000 Money, civilization.
02:35:59.000 And the anonymous nature of it.
02:36:01.000 So disconnected from each other.
02:36:03.000 But at scale.
02:36:03.000 Civilization at scale.
02:36:05.000 Like working with money that's electronic.
02:36:07.000 We're supposed to be trading like, here's two pieces of gold, give me a donkey.
02:36:11.000 You've got a banana.
02:36:12.000 Can I have your orange or whatever?
02:36:15.000 That's true, though.
02:36:16.000 That is really true.
02:36:20.000 I don't know that we're handling that transition very well right now.
02:36:23.000 I don't know we're handling that transition well either.
02:36:25.000 People just feel very adrift.
02:36:28.000 The finances and the misery that comes from not being able to have confidence that you're going to be able to provide for your kids, that's a very real thing.
02:36:37.000 But I think just as real as that is this sense of, What am I even doing here?
02:36:42.000 Well, it goes back to what you were talking about earlier with universal basic income.
02:36:45.000 And this is one of the things that I felt that attracted me to Andrew Yang when we're talking.
02:36:49.000 I'm like, yeah, there's gonna be some people that get lazy.
02:36:53.000 Yeah, there's gonna be.
02:36:54.000 But that's just humans, man.
02:36:56.000 If you gave that to someone with ambition, I don't think they'd be lazy.
02:37:00.000 I don't think it's going to stifle ambition.
02:37:01.000 I think ambition is something that's developed for whatever the root cause of your determination is.
02:37:09.000 Whether it's you were ignored as a child or whether it's your parents worked hard and you recognize that hard work has inherent benefits.
02:37:17.000 Whatever it is, some people learn how to achieve goals or work hard or have dreams.
02:37:23.000 If you give those people a certain amount of money so that their basic needs are cared for.
02:37:28.000 Food and shelter, I think, will have more people that are successful.
02:37:32.000 We'll have more people that pursue their dreams rather than just chase an empty life of labor.
02:37:38.000 And that's what actual freedom looks like.
02:37:41.000 It's not just the technical right to be able to pursue this or that end when you don't really have the means to pursue it.
02:37:49.000 It's the ability to have meaningful choices.
02:37:52.000 And for millions and millions, perhaps a majority of Americans, they have no meaningful choice that they can make.
02:37:59.000 I'm sorry.
02:38:00.000 There's a big debate on the right right now around like, is the culture gone or is it an economic problem?
02:38:07.000 The culture as in?
02:38:08.000 As in like, oh, well, people aren't getting married anymore.
02:38:11.000 Like, are people not for...
02:38:12.000 I've given up on the family.
02:38:13.000 Like, have people given up on...
02:38:15.000 Is that true?
02:38:15.000 Is there a Oh, there's a huge drop-off.
02:38:17.000 2018 was the lowest marriage rate on record.
02:38:20.000 People can't afford to.
02:38:20.000 Exactly.
02:38:21.000 That's what I was going to say.
02:38:21.000 This is always my counter.
02:38:23.000 People like getting married.
02:38:24.000 People want to get married.
02:38:25.000 The number one reason they didn't get married in 2018 was because of money.
02:38:29.000 People want to have kids.
02:38:30.000 This is a big debate as well around the fertility rate.
02:38:33.000 Our fertility rate is below replacement.
02:38:34.000 It's very, very low.
02:38:35.000 It continues to drop.
02:38:36.000 You had that fantastic testosterone book.
02:38:38.000 I'm so glad.
02:38:39.000 Or the sperm count book.
02:38:40.000 I'm glad that you did.
02:38:41.000 All of these confluence of events are making it so that we are really, we are basically failing our civilizational priority, which is replacing itself.
02:38:48.000 And so, again, though, you look at America, and you say, why are people not having kids?
02:38:52.000 Yes, there is some cultural drop-off in the people who don't necessarily want to have kids.
02:38:56.000 But people want to have around 2.2 kids.
02:38:59.000 I think?
02:39:21.000 I forget what average cost is per birth in America for the average incur cost that you will.
02:39:27.000 I can't afford the diapers.
02:39:29.000 I can't afford in order to change my life.
02:39:31.000 Oh, that means I would have to leave my job.
02:39:33.000 That is where I'm saying, look guys, maybe the culture has changed a lot, but...
02:39:38.000 It sounds like money actually can fix a lot of our problems in terms of marriageability.
02:39:42.000 We actually could increase our marriage rate dramatically if we bait it so that people weren't mired in student debt or mired in personal finance or, frankly, just had the ability in order to provide for a basic family based maybe on one income.
02:39:56.000 Same thing whenever we have kids.
02:39:57.000 If you want people to have more kids, they want to.
02:40:00.000 People are crying out, being like, I want to have more children, but I cannot.
02:40:05.000 This is what they tell—I think it was the American Community Survey, which is like a branch of the Commerce Department, which does a lot of the census data.
02:40:12.000 And you can see so clearly, but guess what?
02:40:15.000 And this is my biggest departure from a lot of the Republicans.
02:40:18.000 I'm like, they're not proposing shit.
02:40:20.000 Like, they're not proposing, like, increasing— Quite the contrary.
02:40:23.000 They're the ones voting against it.
02:40:24.000 They're voting against child tax credits.
02:40:26.000 Here's one of the most insanely depressing ideas that I've read about was people that have debt, student loan debt, and they're getting their Social Security docked.
02:40:36.000 Yeah, because they can garnish your wages even when you're dead.
02:40:39.000 So dark.
02:40:41.000 You can't even go bankrupt.
02:40:43.000 This is the thing.
02:40:43.000 Social Security, like, one of the weirdest things about student loan debt is it's the only thing that you carry no matter what.
02:40:51.000 That's right.
02:40:51.000 Even if you go bankrupt, you still owe it.
02:40:53.000 It's horrible.
02:40:53.000 It is a dirty, dirty, dirty game because they've figured out a way to use people as human batteries.
02:40:59.000 That's exactly.
02:40:59.000 When they're 18. Do you know what being 18 is?
02:41:01.000 I mean, look, I remember 18. I do.
02:41:03.000 I was dumb as fuck.
02:41:05.000 A $200,000 loan?
02:41:06.000 I was like, oh, whatever.
02:41:08.000 I mean, thank God.
02:41:09.000 Didn't have to.
02:41:09.000 Shout out to the parents.
02:41:11.000 Listen, I still have a small amount of students that I'm paying off.
02:41:15.000 Listen, don't cry for me.
02:41:17.000 I'll be fine paying it off.
02:41:18.000 But coming out of college and then you are starting negative whatever.
02:41:24.000 And that affects what line of work you go into.
02:41:27.000 Why is it that so many of our best and brightest minds go in and play with money on Wall Street adding absolutely nothing?
02:41:33.000 Part of it is this story.
02:41:34.000 You've got to make the money to pay back your freaking loans.
02:41:36.000 It brings me back to the same thing about trying to figure out how to make less losers.
02:41:41.000 I think that education should be free because I think that our country...
02:41:46.000 If we pay for the roads, we pay for firefighters and all these things that we agree, which are, you know, socialism concepts.
02:41:52.000 Like firefighting is kind of a socialism concept.
02:41:55.000 Public goods.
02:41:56.000 Public goods.
02:41:57.000 Yeah.
02:41:57.000 What the fuck is more public good than education?
02:41:59.000 Than investing in your people.
02:42:01.000 Your community.
02:42:02.000 Your human beings.
02:42:02.000 Yes.
02:42:03.000 And also enlightening people.
02:42:05.000 But also making sure that it's not like the same sort of indoctrination bullshit that's going on in a lot of universities.
02:42:11.000 I just ran into that problem.
02:42:13.000 That's true.
02:42:13.000 Which is that why are a lot of Republican voters not going to support that?
02:42:16.000 Because they're like, fuck the university.
02:42:17.000 They fucking hate us.
02:42:18.000 Well, you read some of the shit that they're saying.
02:42:21.000 It's cult stuff.
02:42:23.000 Yeah, but Republicans still want their kids to be able to go to college.
02:42:26.000 Of course they do.
02:42:27.000 They just don't want their kids to be indoctrinated into Marxist ideology.
02:42:30.000 Exactly.
02:42:32.000 It's this intolerance of dissent.
02:42:34.000 It's really scary.
02:42:35.000 And I think it comes from this sense of like, you know, people feel that things are very chaotic and Trump was a genuinely like terrifying experience for a lot of people.
02:42:44.000 It is pre-Trump.
02:42:45.000 And there's this sense, you know, as someone who is on the left, like throughout history, this was the standard left wing position.
02:42:52.000 I mean, you support free speech and censorship and these like McCarthyism and all this stuff has always targeted the left.
02:42:59.000 Go look at Cohen, Tell Pro, all this stuff.
02:43:02.000 And now you have this really rigid ideology that if you step out on a line even a little bit, you know, everyone's going to come for you and people are afraid to really say what they think.
02:43:12.000 And it really does pervade.
02:43:16.000 It pervades the media.
02:43:18.000 It just leaves people afraid.
02:43:21.000 It has consequences in terms of their career trajectory.
02:43:24.000 And it ultimately leads to things like, you know, ignoring the lab leak theory because someone somewhere was like, oh, it's racist.
02:43:30.000 Everyone's like, oh, we can't say that then.
02:43:32.000 Complete intellectual dishonesty.
02:43:33.000 Yeah, that's it.
02:43:34.000 The biggest change.
02:43:35.000 I was actually recently talking to this guy, Frank DiStefano, on my podcast.
02:43:39.000 Actually, we should talk about that, too.
02:43:40.000 I forgot about that.
02:43:41.000 In terms of what we weren't allowed to mention on The Hill, which was actually our own respective podcast.
02:43:47.000 Crystal's is Crystal, Kyle, and Friends.
02:43:49.000 Crystal, Kyle, and Friends.
02:43:50.000 Go sub on Substack.
02:43:51.000 That's right.
02:43:51.000 And the realignment with Marshall Kossoff.
02:43:53.000 We finally get to have our due and be free and actually talk about...
02:43:56.000 You couldn't talk about it before?
02:43:57.000 No, we weren't.
02:43:58.000 No, Joe.
02:43:58.000 We were not allowed to mention...
02:44:01.000 So I had written into my contract before I even joined The Hill because I had hosted this podcast with Marshall.
02:44:07.000 So he was allowed to come on the show.
02:44:09.000 But Crystal started her podcast with Kyle and he wasn't allowed to come on.
02:44:13.000 She couldn't even acknowledge that we had these outlets.
02:44:15.000 So he couldn't come on as a guest on your show?
02:44:17.000 No.
02:44:18.000 Let me tell you how stupid this is.
02:44:21.000 So Kyle Kalinske obviously has this big following of his own.
02:44:24.000 We start this podcast together.
02:44:26.000 And yeah, they told me I can't have him on as a guest on Rising.
02:44:29.000 Kyle was routinely one of our best guests in terms of traffic.
02:44:33.000 So you're just like, why would you?
02:44:36.000 He just came on Breaking Points.
02:44:37.000 He got 100k views.
02:44:38.000 He just came on Breaking Points.
02:44:39.000 So thank you, Kyle.
02:44:40.000 Shout out to Kyle.
02:44:41.000 So out of nowhere, they just said you have to stop having Kyle on.
02:44:45.000 Yes!
02:44:46.000 Even though he was one of the highest traffic cars.
02:44:47.000 Oh my God.
02:44:48.000 And of course, Kyle's like, okay, whatever.
02:44:50.000 And we're, you know, also like, all right, whatever.
02:44:53.000 LOL. But there They're hurting themselves.
02:44:56.000 That's how stupid it was.
02:44:56.000 This is old media mindset.
02:44:57.000 And you understand this more than anybody.
02:44:59.000 You understand collaboration on the internet, which is that on YouTube, among podcasting and more, you have a scenario where when you go on each other's podcasts, when you do each other's shows and more, everybody collectively rises together and actually the wealth increases,
02:45:14.000 the profile increases and more.
02:45:16.000 This is an old TV mentality because on TV with cable, You have to get locked in, right?
02:45:22.000 Like, if you're watching Fox and you're not watching CNN, CNN is losing.
02:45:26.000 If you're watching CNN, you're not watching MSNBC, MSNBC is losing.
02:45:29.000 That's old media, like, in terms of the scoops.
02:45:32.000 But this new media, independent environment, we have people, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, all these people with, I mean, technically, I guess, competing subscription products, but that's not how it works.
02:45:43.000 Which is maybe somebody who watches our show who doesn't necessarily become a premium member or whatever.
02:45:47.000 They really, really appreciate Glenn and they see them out.
02:45:50.000 And then they go and they subscribe to him.
02:45:52.000 And then maybe it works vice versa.
02:45:54.000 It's a famine mentality.
02:45:56.000 It is.
02:45:56.000 Guys like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi are crucial in this time.
02:46:01.000 Yeah.
02:46:01.000 Because they are the bravest journalists amongst us.
02:46:04.000 Glenn is fucking fearless.
02:46:05.000 Glenn is a fucking monster.
02:46:07.000 He's a monster, and so is Matt.
02:46:09.000 They're monsters in the best way possible because they are not attached to any ideology in terms of what you're supposed to say, and Glenn particularly fights against it tooth and claw the moment he sees it.
02:46:23.000 He's so brave, and it's so important to have people like that out there because if you don't support them, if they go down, the whole thing goes down.
02:46:33.000 Exactly.
02:46:33.000 Well, and I think about Glenn a lot.
02:46:37.000 I mean, both because I consider him a friend.
02:46:39.000 I respect the hell out of him.
02:46:40.000 He obviously was a big part of Rising Success, and he was our very first guest on Breaking Points.
02:46:45.000 But this man literally risked his life and his freedom for his principles.
02:46:49.000 Multiple times.
02:46:50.000 I mean, first with Snowden.
02:46:52.000 He very much thought the U.S. government, very possible that the U.S. government would come after him and take his freedom.
02:46:57.000 And his criticism in Brazil.
02:46:59.000 The fucking president was going after him.
02:47:02.000 They were trying to put him in jail.
02:47:04.000 Yeah, these are like murderous thugs.
02:47:05.000 And I mean, political assassinations have happened there very recently.
02:47:09.000 And yeah, they went after him, tried to put him in jail.
02:47:13.000 Jamie just pulled up that dude that just might have been a part of the Clinton body count.
02:47:20.000 Yeah, and so Glenn has literally put his life...
02:47:24.000 So you think he's going to be afraid if you say some mean thing about him on Twitter or on MSNBC or whatever?
02:47:30.000 He doesn't care?
02:47:31.000 I talked to him about this.
02:47:32.000 He goes back and forth with people on Twitter.
02:47:33.000 I'm like, why do you do that?
02:47:34.000 I don't know how he does it, man.
02:47:35.000 I took your advice.
02:47:36.000 I went way off because of you.
02:47:38.000 Don't you feel better?
02:47:39.000 I can't even describe it.
02:47:40.000 He has that personality, though, where he's in it.
02:47:43.000 He likes the fight.
02:47:45.000 He doesn't give a fuck.
02:47:45.000 He's a little honey badger.
02:47:46.000 Guys like fucking Jim Acosta.
02:47:49.000 My former White House Presbyterian colleague, Jim Acosta, made millions of dollars with his books and his bullshit performances there in the Rose Garden.
02:47:57.000 And it's like he actually is presenting himself and profiting off of gaslighting millions of Americans into thinking that he somehow risked his life by behaving like an asshole while he was in the White House briefing room.
02:48:09.000 And then you have guys like Glenn and you have guys like Matt who wrote this whole thing about the financial power elite and, you know, with Goldman Sachs and then Glenn Greenwald who's literally being pursued by the Brazilian government and they have the audacity.
02:48:23.000 To say that they're misinformation purveyors or they're not real journalists.
02:48:27.000 I mean, that is what makes me so angry because the entire corporate media infrastructure is not about producing actual journalism, especially when the power elite is the Biden administration.
02:48:39.000 I don't know if you saw this.
02:48:40.000 Brian Stelter recently had the White House press secretary on his show on CNN. And he said, what are we getting wrong about the White House?
02:48:47.000 He invited the White House press secretary, the paid propagandist of the United States government, and his first, I think, first question, and I don't want to say too much, but one of his questions to her in his very limited airtime on cable news was, what does the press get wrong about the Biden administration?
02:49:02.000 So he invited her to correct his network and other media's coverage on his cable show.
02:49:10.000 What the fuck is that?
02:49:12.000 That's crazy!
02:49:13.000 It's what you would expect from a guy like that.
02:49:15.000 They love her so much.
02:49:18.000 It's so weird.
02:49:18.000 I'm like, this woman is paid to lie to you.
02:49:23.000 That's nothing against her.
02:49:24.000 That's literally the job description is paid propagandas.
02:49:27.000 It's not really that they love her.
02:49:30.000 It's they don't really have an opinion other than what is the orthodoxy.
02:49:34.000 What are they supposed to say?
02:49:36.000 What we're talking about with Glenn and with Matt and with you guys, one of the things that I love about you guys is that I know that you're telling me, whether you two disagree with each other or whether you agree, I know you're telling me what you really think about things.
02:49:50.000 Yes.
02:49:51.000 And you're not a part of some sort of weird cabal of...
02:49:55.000 Influencers who got together and decided to support some strange ideology that's cast down upon by billionaires.
02:50:05.000 It's so hard to do, though, I can't tell you, for the amount of pushback that we both receive from our respective quote-unquote sides.
02:50:11.000 The amount of shit that you will take.
02:50:13.000 When we called out Stop the Steal, I burned a lot of bridges with a lot of people on the Trump right.
02:50:18.000 And that is why, personally, I barely identify.
02:50:21.000 So when you think of yourself as a right-wing person, do you think of yourself as a fiscally right-wing person?
02:50:27.000 Because I don't see you as a socially right-wing person.
02:50:30.000 Well, see, this is interesting, and I actually think everything is changing.
02:50:33.000 Old social conservatism was about abortion, guns, and gay marriage.
02:50:37.000 Right.
02:50:38.000 The abortion conversation is still 50-50.
02:50:40.000 Gay marriage, I think 70% of Republican voters in the latest Pew Research poll support gay marriage.
02:50:45.000 That's a positive trend.
02:50:47.000 It's very crazy, actually, if you think about where things have moved in 20 years.
02:50:50.000 Obama didn't even run on gay marriage in 2012. How about Hillary Clinton until 2013 didn't support gay marriage?
02:50:56.000 Really?
02:50:56.000 Yeah.
02:50:56.000 So when you think about how crazy that has changed, I think social conservatism today is actually one of the best pieces I read on this.
02:51:04.000 Shout out to Matthew Walther.
02:51:06.000 It's called Rise of the Barstool Conservatives.
02:51:08.000 So if you were to ask me who I think like the most the biggest like right wing social icon in America right now, 25 years ago, I would have said like Franklin Graham or something like that.
02:51:18.000 I think he's Dave Portnoy.
02:51:19.000 I really think it is somebody like Portnoy who is anti-PC. The current social conservatism, or at least the way that I think things are moving forward, is anti-woke, anti-PC. And that is where I think the emerging fights are.
02:51:36.000 So, for example, around abortion or something.
02:51:38.000 It's not that Portnoy or whatever is not personally pro-life.
02:51:41.000 I think he's actually on the record that way.
02:51:42.000 But he's also probably not going to actively be hostile towards people who are pro-life.
02:51:47.000 He's pro-business.
02:51:47.000 Correct.
02:51:48.000 He's very pro-business.
02:51:49.000 This is where my politics change a little bit because I'm extraordinarily anti-PC, very against the anti-woke stuff, but I am much more – I would say, oh, I call myself centrist when it comes to economics because I know what the actual – Populist believes on economics.
02:52:05.000 They're extraordinarily – I mean taxing people who are rich is extraordinarily popular.
02:52:10.000 Florida, which just voted for Trump, why 3.2 percent higher than Barack Obama won that state, also voted overwhelmingly for a $15 minimum wage.
02:52:19.000 So, how the fuck does that happen?
02:52:20.000 Oh, I know why.
02:52:22.000 Because actual voters, whenever you take the culture part of it out, they're actually very much for paying higher wages, taxing the rich, rebalancing our financial system, making it so what I was talking about, people being able to get married and more.
02:52:35.000 It's the culture woke piece of it, which just drives everybody.
02:52:39.000 This is how you know the world is upside down.
02:52:41.000 Florida is the most rational country.
02:52:43.000 It shows you how toxic the Democratic Party brand is.
02:52:47.000 That they're like, we want the stuff that you claim that you want, but we want nothing to do.
02:52:51.000 Well, you see it on the front line.
02:52:53.000 You see Pelosi and Schumer on their knees with African garb on.
02:52:56.000 And you know that's horseshit.
02:52:58.000 And thinking that that's real.
02:53:00.000 Well, thinking that it's going to work because, first of all, they're older, right?
02:53:04.000 So they evolved their ideology before the internet came around.
02:53:07.000 And so they're used to bullshitting people.
02:53:10.000 They're used to bullshitting people with like, they're like a comic that has a 20-year-old act.
02:53:15.000 And they're like, hey, here's my Nixon impression.
02:53:18.000 And people are like, who the fuck is Nixon?
02:53:19.000 I saw a comic like that, actually.
02:53:21.000 It was terrible.
02:53:22.000 He used to be on SNL. I don't want to shit talk.
02:53:25.000 Yeah, I know who you're talking about.
02:53:26.000 Okay.
02:53:27.000 So actually, so one of the things around this, though, is that I personally, at least kind of how I view myself, is like a spokespeople for so many of the completely underrepresented in America.
02:53:39.000 We're in our great state, Texas, like where I'm from.
02:53:41.000 I always think about people.
02:53:43.000 So you saw the large Hispanic swing towards Trump here in South Texas.
02:53:47.000 Yes.
02:53:47.000 So in Laredo, for example, and McAllen just elected a GOP mayor, which is fucking crazy.
02:53:52.000 Yeah.
02:53:53.000 But it's 85 percent Hispanic town.
02:53:55.000 Nobody speaks for somebody who is Latino, maybe third or fourth generation, who's skeptical of mass immigration, but who also is like pro-life, pro-15 dollar minimum wage, pro-Medicare for all, and pro-gun.
02:54:09.000 Nobody speaks for that person in American politics today.
02:54:12.000 And that is where I think the emerging future is.
02:54:15.000 I think that the future of any Republican Party, if they want to survive, given the inability to win the popular vote seven out of eight last presidential elections, is changing their stance on economics and becoming— What it is is embracing this anti-PC against the liberal intelligentsia and elite.
02:54:35.000 Now, this is all easier said than done because what's Crystal immediately going to say?
02:54:38.000 Yeah, because they're owned by the fucking billionaire class and because they're never going to give it up.
02:54:43.000 Tell them the Mitch McConnell thing about this tax leak story.
02:54:46.000 Oh, yeah.
02:54:47.000 This is fucking crazy.
02:54:48.000 Yeah, so we were just talking about the tax returns of the billionaires.
02:54:52.000 Yeah, I heard that.
02:54:53.000 Well, Mitch McConnell's response to that was, we need to lock up everyone who was involved.
02:54:58.000 Hunt them down.
02:54:59.000 Hunt them down and lock them down.
02:55:00.000 Hunt down the people who leaked the tax returns.
02:55:02.000 Your response to the story is that...
02:55:05.000 I loved your response to it.
02:55:06.000 I was like, we need to hunt down the people who made it possible for billionaires.
02:55:10.000 Yes, exactly.
02:55:11.000 Denabay!
02:55:12.000 How about that?
02:55:13.000 Exactly.
02:55:13.000 And not only that, if you were a billionaire, and this is not a slight on my friend Elon, but if you were a billionaire, like if I ever become a billionaire, I want to pay taxes.
02:55:22.000 I don't mind paying taxes.
02:55:23.000 I don't even think about it.
02:55:24.000 I don't care.
02:55:25.000 I mean, I think that you're supposed to pay.
02:55:27.000 If I could pay...
02:55:29.000 If I could pay 50% more and know that my money is going to educating people, you kind of do that with philanthropy, you kind of do that with charitable donations, but it's not the same.
02:55:39.000 Because all that stuff, you don't understand what's the administrative cost, how much is actually getting to people.
02:55:47.000 What's the priority?
02:55:48.000 This is the thing, too.
02:55:49.000 Why did they get to donate their money?
02:55:52.000 For example, with Bill Gates, we've never had this before, that he was funding that project to dim the sun.
02:55:58.000 This is real.
02:56:00.000 Shout out to Wired.
02:56:02.000 Because of the way he dances.
02:56:03.000 Now he doesn't want to dim the sun anymore.
02:56:05.000 They've abandoned that project because of funding constraints.
02:56:08.000 Divorce.
02:56:09.000 But we have not lived in a scenario where one person actually could fucking dim the sun.
02:56:17.000 And he could do it through philanthropic research around carbon or whatever.
02:56:20.000 I don't remember exactly what the justification of it is.
02:56:23.000 I think I want to say, as an American citizen, of like, no, you don't get to dim the sun, Bill Gates.
02:56:30.000 Well, not only that, do you understand that that is one of the premier conspiracy theories about the idea that the global elite wants to reduce the population by half?
02:56:41.000 Oh, yeah.
02:56:41.000 Right.
02:56:42.000 Yeah.
02:56:43.000 He is involved in so many of the conspiracy theories.
02:56:47.000 He's involved in the massive vaccination.
02:56:51.000 All the nutbags are worried about massive vaccinations trying to depopulate the earth.
02:56:57.000 All the nutbags are worried that he's going to spray things into the sky and somehow or another it's going to come down and ruin our water supply and our food.
02:57:06.000 Who the fuck knows if it would?
02:57:08.000 Because it's an unprecedented experiment.
02:57:10.000 But even crazier.
02:57:12.000 All of this goes back to the Sumerian text.
02:57:15.000 And this is where it's really weird.
02:57:17.000 There's a guy named Zechariah Sitchin who wrote some incredibly controversial books.
02:57:21.000 And one of them was, I think it was called The Ninth Planet.
02:57:27.000 What is it called?
02:57:30.000 Anyway, Zachariah Sitchin was a guy who is a linguist and a scholar who took ancient cuneiform tablets from Sumer.
02:57:42.000 And his idea, out of all this stuff, and he wrote all these books about it, Was that there was another planet that's on an elliptical orbit that would come in and out of Earth every 3,600 years and they genetically manipulated lower primates to create human beings and they came here to mine gold because their atmosphere had deteriorated and they wanted to suspend reflective gold particles in their atmosphere and Earth has a very large amount of gold.
02:58:12.000 So they would come here and get gold and they would get people to mine this gold for them and make gold very valuable.
02:58:21.000 So here's the thing, if you're thinking...
02:58:22.000 How does Gates get there?
02:58:25.000 This is a nutty conversation, right?
02:58:27.000 So if you go back to ancient civilization, why the fuck would gold be valuable?
02:58:32.000 When you're talking about people that barely had money for food, imagine giving someone a piece of gold and they give you a cow.
02:58:38.000 Why would you give someone a cow for a piece of gold?
02:58:40.000 Wouldn't you want metal that you could turn into, like, iron?
02:58:44.000 Something you could turn into weapons?
02:58:45.000 Something used for a tool?
02:58:50.000 What Zechariah Sitchin believed, and if you ever follow ancient Sumer, it's a very bizarre civilization.
02:58:57.000 Very bizarre in the fact that they had a detailed map of the solar system 6,000 plus years ago, including Pluto, with all the planets in the correct order, and they had these weird images of really tall, giant, human-like people with little monkey people sitting on their lap,
02:59:13.000 like human beings with tails.
02:59:14.000 Strange shit, right?
02:59:16.000 And he believes, and most people don't agree with There's a whole website by other Sumerian scholars.
02:59:23.000 It's like sitchiniswrong.com.
02:59:25.000 You can go there and they break down and there's a disagreement about all this.
02:59:29.000 But anyway, he was saying that the reason why these aliens would come here Is because they wanted our gold.
02:59:36.000 And they wanted our gold to suspend particles into the atmosphere to protect us against the rays of the sun.
02:59:41.000 And that's what they were doing on their planet.
02:59:43.000 They were coming here to get our gold so they could suspend it into the sky to protect their planet.
02:59:50.000 This is what fucking Bill Gates is talking about.
02:59:52.000 He's literally talking about suspending particles in the sky to protect us against the rays of the sky.
02:59:59.000 But this is how bonkers it is.
03:00:02.000 Zachariah Sitchin wrote this book in the fucking 70s.
03:00:05.000 He wrote this book.
03:00:06.000 What was his book called?
03:00:09.000 Zachariah Sitchin.
03:00:11.000 He's a strange cat.
03:00:14.000 Me and my buddy Eddie Bravo used to get high as fucking read these books.
03:00:19.000 And it's so crazy.
03:00:20.000 Do you buy it?
03:00:22.000 No.
03:00:23.000 No, I don't buy it.
03:00:24.000 I don't.
03:00:25.000 No, no, no, no, no.
03:00:26.000 I don't buy it.
03:00:27.000 But I'm fascinated by how many of the things that when you talk about super elites, right?
03:00:32.000 The crazy conspiracy theories of super elites is always...
03:00:35.000 See, this is the thing.
03:00:35.000 I talk about a lot of things that I don't buy.
03:00:38.000 And some people find that very problematic.
03:00:40.000 Right.
03:00:41.000 They find it uncomfortable.
03:00:42.000 They don't like it.
03:00:43.000 They don't like to even bring some of these things up.
03:00:45.000 Because I'm like, why is that real?
03:00:47.000 Like, why does this one fucking billionaire want to vaccinate everybody?
03:00:50.000 Why does this one billionaire want to suspend reflective particles in the atmosphere?
03:00:54.000 Unfortunately, Bill Gates, I would like it more if he did want to vaccinate everybody.
03:00:57.000 He's been standing in the way of global vaccination is the truth.
03:01:00.000 But he does do weird stuff.
03:01:02.000 Like, in Sudan, they're vaccinating...
03:01:06.000 Bought a bunch of farmland.
03:01:06.000 Oh, yeah.
03:01:07.000 Well, he's like the number one farmland owner in America.
03:01:11.000 And Jamie pulled up some articles that dispute that.
03:01:14.000 But then I've seen so many that confirm it.
03:01:17.000 And Jamie pulled up some to confirm it, too.
03:01:19.000 So he owns a shitload of land in America.
03:01:20.000 I think he provides McDonald's with all their corn or some shit like that.
03:01:24.000 What?
03:01:24.000 Story from yesterday.
03:01:25.000 Or potatoes, excuse me.
03:01:27.000 Private farmland owner in the U.S. accounting for more than 269,000 acres.
03:01:31.000 I think he also...
03:01:33.000 He provides McDonald's with all their potatoes.
03:01:35.000 Really?
03:01:36.000 That one I didn't know.
03:01:37.000 Google that.
03:01:38.000 Google whether or not...
03:01:39.000 Oh, right there.
03:01:40.000 Go back.
03:01:40.000 Go back.
03:01:41.000 Oh yeah, it does say that.
03:01:42.000 Right there.
03:01:42.000 Right there.
03:01:43.000 Potato farmer.
03:01:45.000 Bill Gates is a McDonald's fucking potato farmer!
03:01:48.000 You nailed it.
03:01:48.000 And you can see his farms from space.
03:01:49.000 And then you wonder, and then people in the media are like, why do people believe all these crazy conspiracy theories?
03:01:54.000 Because some of it's fucking true!
03:01:56.000 But just imagine, a guy that is genetically modifying crops, a guy that is spraying, wants to spray the sky, stratosphere-controlled perturbation experiment Scopex.
03:02:06.000 But go to Zechariah Sitchin.
03:02:09.000 Like, Zechariah Sitchin's Sumerian text translation.
03:02:12.000 Yeah, I was trying to dig through that to find out what he specifically said.
03:02:14.000 It's complicated shit.
03:02:16.000 But the thing is, like, he wrote about this.
03:02:18.000 Sitchin wrote about this in the 1970s.
03:02:20.000 It wasn't even proposed as a theory about or a possible solution to global warming until the 2000s.
03:02:30.000 It was somewhere in the 2000s and someone was talking about suspending reflective particles in the atmosphere.
03:02:35.000 But one of the things about gold that's a very unique reflective particle, gold is a crazy, crazy metal in that you can take a very small piece of gold.
03:02:44.000 See this coin?
03:02:45.000 This is a Navy Seal coin.
03:02:47.000 If you could take this coin and put it on this table, a coin of gold can cover the entire table.
03:02:52.000 Oh, if you spread it out.
03:02:55.000 You can get it so thin.
03:02:56.000 You can get it so thin.
03:02:57.000 It's so malleable and so unusual.
03:03:00.000 It's like gold plating.
03:03:02.000 That's why gold plating is so interesting.
03:03:03.000 I guess the counter argument about some of these things, because there are other things like, oh, did this book predict this happen or whatever.
03:03:09.000 With so many books being written in any given year, isn't one of them going to weirdly accurately predict something that happens?
03:03:17.000 Yeah, but this is not fiction.
03:03:18.000 The problem with this book is it's not fiction.
03:03:21.000 This is deciphering the oldest language known to man.
03:03:25.000 Right.
03:03:25.000 But still, the same sort of principle applies.
03:03:28.000 If there's this much body of research on these various times and beings and places, etc., and this much conspiracy writing about it, surely some part of it is going to be like, oh my god, they predicted the thing.
03:03:42.000 Someone sounds like a skeptic.
03:03:43.000 You know what's funny?
03:03:43.000 Someone sounds like she doesn't smoke any weed.
03:03:45.000 Crystal's finally realizing.
03:03:47.000 Wrong on the second count.
03:03:48.000 Crystal's finally realizing where all my...
03:03:50.000 But I do need to do shrooms, so we're gonna have to work on that.
03:03:53.000 She's realizing where all my crazy shit comes, where I'll be like, I was reading this book, but it's got Graham Hancock.
03:03:59.000 And I was like, there's a city, Quebec.
03:04:00.000 And so I get it all.
03:04:01.000 So all my friends who are, they're like, have you been fucking listening to Joe Rogan again?
03:04:06.000 Because I'll be like, I'll be like, listen, there's aliens, we can get there too.
03:04:10.000 But like, and the UFOs, but they're always like, they're like, I show them, I was like, I got these rare meats in my freezer.
03:04:16.000 And they're like, have you been fucking listening to Joe Rogan?
03:04:18.000 I'm like, what?
03:04:19.000 I got a water buffalo steak.
03:04:21.000 Who fucking cares?
03:04:22.000 It's good for you.
03:04:24.000 It is good for you.
03:04:26.000 Yeah, these things are obviously fun, right?
03:04:31.000 And we don't know.
03:04:31.000 I mean, like, I'm not a scientist.
03:04:33.000 The problem is the podcast reaches too many people.
03:04:36.000 So when I talk about this wacky shit, then people are like, you're spreading dangerous conspiracy.
03:04:40.000 I remember Media Matters wrote this whole article about me being a piece of shit because I talked about the lab leak theory.
03:04:46.000 Oh, yeah.
03:04:47.000 Oh, wow.
03:04:48.000 Guess what, fuckers?
03:04:49.000 Oh, guess what?
03:04:50.000 But it was like, it wasn't even me talking about it.
03:04:52.000 It was Brett Weinstein, and he was explaining it from a scientific perspective.
03:04:56.000 Right.
03:04:56.000 He was talking about the actual components of the virus and what we know about it and why.
03:05:00.000 And he was very careful about the way he described it.
03:05:03.000 Yeah.
03:05:03.000 He said it is more probable than not that it came from a lab.
03:05:08.000 I think this is the why I believe so much in your platform and why I'm frankly such a big fan is because I know that you're just bullshitting sometimes, but the power that you have to be able to elevate these types of conversations is incredibly important.
03:05:21.000 Hancock in particular, like you had Hancock on over a decade ago.
03:05:24.000 The archaeology community said he was totally full of shit.
03:05:27.000 Oh, guess what?
03:05:27.000 Half the stuff that he set out has actually turned out to be true.
03:05:30.000 And so your questioning of conventional wisdom has actually played a direct role in influencing our understanding.
03:05:37.000 Lab leak is another one.
03:05:38.000 Frankly, weirdly, the two most important people to UFO disclosure are yourself and Tom DeLonge, right?
03:05:46.000 Tom DeLonge's Fucking Blink-182.
03:05:48.000 Not only that.
03:05:48.000 Todd Gronk broke my heart many years ago.
03:05:50.000 He was the worst guess I've ever had about UFOs.
03:05:54.000 Really?
03:05:54.000 Because he fucking believes everything.
03:05:56.000 That's right.
03:05:56.000 That's the problem.
03:05:56.000 He doesn't have an ability to sort.
03:05:58.000 I was like, something's wrong.
03:06:00.000 There's like two wires and you need to go like this and they're not doing that.
03:06:04.000 They're like this.
03:06:05.000 Well, and that's...
03:06:06.000 That's actually a problem in some of these areas that are pushed down in the mainstream, is the people that stick with it are the ones who will embrace the wildest shit, and then that serves to continue to discard it.
03:06:18.000 It wasn't that.
03:06:19.000 It was something wrong.
03:06:20.000 Well, something that was just literally off.
03:06:22.000 He literally watches things that are obviously fake, and he believes in them.
03:06:26.000 Oh, dude, it was like when you had Les Stroud on.
03:06:28.000 That made me so sad.
03:06:29.000 Oh, the Bigfoot thing?
03:06:30.000 I fucking love that guy.
03:06:31.000 I love Les.
03:06:31.000 But he was obsessed with Bigfoot.
03:06:32.000 Anyway.
03:06:33.000 Well, he has a financial interest in believing that Bigfoot exists.
03:06:37.000 You know, because he was doing that Survivorman Bigfoot show.
03:06:41.000 But when it comes to Yeah, it was amazing.
03:06:43.000 He tarred his own brand by becoming some Bigfoot.
03:06:46.000 Unfortunately, I think you're probably right.
03:06:48.000 But he did believe in it.
03:06:49.000 Meanwhile, here's what's crazy.
03:06:51.000 You know, when I first talked to him about that, I had never been in the woods around bears.
03:06:54.000 So he was talking about these sounds that he heard in the woods.
03:07:01.000 But then I went, I was in Canada, and I saw bears fighting, and they make the exact sound.
03:07:08.000 I mean the exact sound.
03:07:09.000 You can find videos of it.
03:07:11.000 They go like this.
03:07:13.000 They puff their chest up, and they breathe heavy.
03:07:16.000 They make gorilla sounds.
03:07:17.000 See if you can pull up bears fighting sounds, because they don't just go.
03:07:23.000 They go like this.
03:07:25.000 They sound like gorillas.
03:07:26.000 Did you ever watch Grizzly Man?
03:07:27.000 Oh my god, I've watched it a thousand times.
03:07:29.000 I'm excited to judge the accuracy of your bear's fighting impression.
03:07:37.000 Grizzly Man is like the best unintentional comedy ever.
03:07:41.000 Werner Herzog is a fucking brilliant comedian.
03:07:43.000 That guy's a genius.
03:07:43.000 He's a genius.
03:07:44.000 But there's a scene where the sheriff looks at the camera and he's talking about the guy and goes, I thought he was retarded!
03:07:50.000 And it is...
03:07:52.000 I remember being on my couch.
03:07:53.000 I fell down onto the ground going, oh my god.
03:07:57.000 Is this real?
03:07:58.000 Is this documentary real?
03:08:00.000 But it was also sad.
03:08:01.000 There was a lot of sadness in there because that guy who was out there in the woods was basically...
03:08:07.000 I'm hoping this works.
03:08:09.000 Yeah, back it up a little.
03:08:10.000 Back it up a little.
03:08:11.000 They're not doing anything.
03:08:12.000 But they just did it.
03:08:12.000 Back it up a little.
03:08:14.000 They're just walking.
03:08:15.000 But in the beginning they did it.
03:08:16.000 No, they're not doing anything.
03:08:17.000 But just the sound.
03:08:18.000 Just go back to the sound.
03:08:20.000 They weren't doing anything.
03:08:22.000 They're just walking.
03:08:22.000 Jamie, bring it back to the beginning because they said it.
03:08:25.000 You could hear it.
03:08:26.000 They make a noise.
03:08:28.000 They're just walking around right now.
03:08:30.000 Yeah, but there's a noise that they made that you played that I heard.
03:08:34.000 I made an accidental click and there wasn't anything going on.
03:08:37.000 I'm telling you.
03:08:37.000 But where did you click it?
03:08:39.000 It was like right here.
03:08:41.000 Okay.
03:08:41.000 This intense scrap between two brown bears.
03:08:44.000 Well, this is what they do.
03:08:45.000 They're sidelining each other.
03:08:48.000 They're circling each other, kind of.
03:08:53.000 See, if you're in your fucking tent and it's dark at night...
03:08:56.000 Oh, it scared the shit out of me.
03:08:58.000 Hear that?
03:08:58.000 Hear that right there.
03:09:01.000 Back it up a little bit.
03:09:02.000 That, right there.
03:09:03.000 That's it.
03:09:07.000 This.
03:09:08.000 That's it.
03:09:09.000 It's a fucking gorilla noise.
03:09:11.000 I've seen bears with my own eyes fighting, doing this.
03:09:16.000 And it was a male bear that came around, a female bear who had cubs.
03:09:20.000 And the female bear was like, get the fuck out of here.
03:09:23.000 And she got him.
03:09:25.000 Whoa.
03:09:26.000 And the male bear's like...
03:09:27.000 You watched this?
03:09:28.000 I was like 100 yards away or less.
03:09:31.000 Less than 100 yards away, yeah.
03:09:32.000 It was wild.
03:09:34.000 There were black bears, so they're a little bit less scary.
03:09:37.000 Yeah.
03:09:38.000 Still, that'll humble you.
03:09:39.000 But it was fucking sketchy.
03:09:40.000 That'll humble you.
03:09:41.000 Yeah, because they get on their hind legs and you see this fucking eight-foot bear.
03:09:44.000 They're so big.
03:09:45.000 Yeah.
03:09:46.000 Well, and you know they could just do whatever they wanted to do.
03:09:49.000 Oh, yeah.
03:09:50.000 Well, have you ever seen one run fast?
03:09:52.000 They run faster than the fastest sprinter that's ever lived.
03:09:56.000 And they're so big.
03:09:58.000 They just take off and you can't...
03:09:59.000 They look like this lumbering thing.
03:10:02.000 And then all of a sudden they're running really fast.
03:10:03.000 You're like, fuck!
03:10:04.000 We know one show I was obsessed with was Life Below Zero.
03:10:08.000 Oh my god, I love that show.
03:10:09.000 Oh, really?
03:10:09.000 Love that show.
03:10:10.000 Oh, wait, no, you had Glenn Villeneuve on.
03:10:11.000 I listened to that interview.
03:10:12.000 I had two people on it.
03:10:12.000 I had Glenn Villeneuve on, and I had that woman, Susan...
03:10:16.000 Oh, Sue Akins.
03:10:16.000 Yeah, Sue Akins.
03:10:17.000 Dude, I'm obsessed with that show.
03:10:18.000 She's amazing.
03:10:19.000 She's a fucking badass.
03:10:19.000 That gangster, you want to know what that lady did?
03:10:21.000 A bear attacked her, broke her hip.
03:10:24.000 She went to the hospital, right?
03:10:25.000 She had to drag herself away, got to the hospital, got out of the hospital, shot the bear, and ate it.
03:10:32.000 Holy shit.
03:10:33.000 She doesn't give a fuck.
03:10:34.000 Fucking ate it!
03:10:35.000 She chain smokes cigarettes and just fucking kills shit all day.
03:10:38.000 She's my hero.
03:10:39.000 She went back and shot the bear and ate it!
03:10:42.000 Because this coyote killed my chickens in California and I wanted to eat it.
03:10:46.000 And I camped out.
03:10:47.000 I was like, for fucking days, I had a perch on my balcony with my bow.
03:10:51.000 And I even tied one of the dead chickens to a pottery plant, you know, a pot that you pot plants in.
03:10:56.000 And I tied it and I waited.
03:10:58.000 And I had a whole plan.
03:10:59.000 I was going to eat the coyote.
03:11:00.000 I was going to shit into a garbage bag and throw it over my fence so that the other coyotes, after I ate him, would know that I ate their friend.
03:11:09.000 I had a plan.
03:11:10.000 I was so angry.
03:11:11.000 What does coyote taste like?
03:11:13.000 We're going to find out.
03:11:14.000 It's gaming.
03:11:14.000 I was going to find out.
03:11:15.000 You've got to like vivisect it.
03:11:16.000 What was that?
03:11:18.000 Skinwalker Ranch?
03:11:19.000 Did you know about all this?
03:11:20.000 Yeah, I went there.
03:11:22.000 So what was it like?
03:11:23.000 Nonsense.
03:11:23.000 Bunch of meth heads.
03:11:24.000 You know what's weird though?
03:11:25.000 What is it?
03:11:26.000 This is the...
03:11:27.000 Here's the thing.
03:11:28.000 It's a UFO hotspot.
03:11:30.000 It's also a place where a lot of people do meth.
03:11:33.000 The two of them together, you gotta go, huh.
03:11:37.000 Here's the thing.
03:11:38.000 Skinwalker Ranch is the reason that we have the UFO report that's coming right now.
03:11:42.000 Well, Robert Bigelow is.
03:11:43.000 That's right.
03:11:43.000 And Bigelow is on my podcast, and he's a very nice guy, but unfortunately he believes a lot of things that don't make any sense.
03:11:49.000 Like, he heard some noise downstairs, and he believes that it was ghosts.
03:11:54.000 Like, he's got this weird...
03:11:56.000 People, like...
03:11:57.000 They make these connections.
03:11:58.000 And you go, why are you making this connection?
03:12:01.000 And then you ask them and they don't have an answer.
03:12:03.000 And Bigelow's a genuinely very nice guy and a very smart guy and a very successful guy.
03:12:08.000 But he's a fucking true believer.
03:12:10.000 And those true believers, those are the ones you gotta go, man.
03:12:14.000 Mmm, I wish you weren't a true believer.
03:12:16.000 Yeah, right, they need more skepticism.
03:12:18.000 But here's the other thing about Bigelow.
03:12:21.000 He has immense resources, and he might have access to things that he's not willing to discuss, and it's hard to tell.
03:12:29.000 He's obsessed in a way that you almost want to get that guy alone and get his trust and go, come on, man.
03:12:38.000 What have you fucking seen?
03:12:40.000 Isn't that always the case, though?
03:12:41.000 You've had that one guy, Jacques Vallée?
03:12:44.000 Jacques Vallée, right.
03:12:45.000 And he's supposedly in possession of the...
03:12:48.000 And I'm like, release the materials, dude.
03:12:49.000 Like, this is where I get very annoyed by a lot of Cajuns.
03:12:51.000 He knows some things.
03:12:52.000 I know he does.
03:12:52.000 And so just like, just release it.
03:12:54.000 Like, this is part of my frustration.
03:12:56.000 One thing that he discussed that was really fantastic was that there are alloys and there's these samples of metals that if a company was to construct this metal, it would cost billions of dollars to do so.
03:13:10.000 And there is no known version of this alloy that exists on Earth.
03:13:13.000 And there's an actual alloy that they're testing and working on right now.
03:13:17.000 And through Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp and all these leaks and releases from the Pentagon, people are now understanding that not only is this a real phenomenon, but there's actual video footage that cannot be explained of things that show no visual propulsion system,
03:13:33.000 no visible propulsion system, no heat signature.
03:13:36.000 And from the Tic Tac incident off the Nimitz in 2004, They have video of this thing taking off, going thousands of miles an hour in a way that any other known craft that we've ever constructed would just obliterate, just through the G-forces.
03:13:51.000 Well, and just, it really challenges our notion of physics.
03:13:55.000 I mean, even just like the basic laws.
03:13:57.000 And, you know, physics was, my dad's a physicist, Biotrade, he's long retired now.
03:14:03.000 What does he think about it?
03:14:04.000 What does he think about this stuff?
03:14:05.000 You ever talk to him?
03:14:05.000 That's a good question.
03:14:06.000 I haven't talked to him much about it.
03:14:08.000 But, you know, physics, when he's older, he's 86. And so when he was coming up through college, like physics was a hotline of anywhere.
03:14:15.000 There were all kinds of developments there.
03:14:16.000 It was really considered the frontier.
03:14:18.000 Now that profession seems to have gotten kind of stale.
03:14:20.000 And actually, Osweid in a similar way where it's like you have to have this particular ideology and you have to pursue within string theory.
03:14:27.000 And if you're Looking at theories outside of that, then you're not going to progress in your career.
03:14:32.000 And there's this sort of groupthink mentality that's set in.
03:14:34.000 But that's part of why I find it really fascinating is because, like, this is defying what we – the basics of what we understand about how the universe works.
03:14:42.000 So what's going on there?
03:14:43.000 I love the story, too, because, I mean, first of all, there's no bigger question.
03:14:46.000 You and I are both nuts.
03:14:47.000 Dude, I know.
03:14:48.000 We have problems.
03:14:49.000 I'm sorry, everyone.
03:14:49.000 We share things.
03:14:50.000 We text each other.
03:14:52.000 We're both real...
03:14:53.000 I'm like, Joe!
03:14:54.000 We have real problems.
03:14:54.000 But I will say this, which is that it intersects...
03:14:56.000 I was a Pentagon correspondent once upon a time, and so what really pissed me off with this recent New York Times story, I did a big monologue on this, is that Pentagon has this forthcoming report.
03:15:05.000 So they got to pre-leak the report and have their journalists write it the way that they want.
03:15:09.000 And I know how they do it.
03:15:10.000 They do an embargo off the record and they say, here are the findings, which is the findings.
03:15:15.000 This is what the Times headline was, which was that the government finds no evidence of aliens, none.
03:15:22.000 And you're like, oh, shit, that's a crazy story.
03:15:24.000 And you read it in the first paragraph and also no evidence that it's not.
03:15:29.000 So, you read even deeper.
03:15:31.000 First of all, take this with a grain of salt.
03:15:33.000 The government says it's not a secret USA technology.
03:15:36.000 Okay, well, they're not going to admit it, even if it actually was, so I'll cast that one aside.
03:15:39.000 But the most important one to me was the government finds and dismisses the weather balloon theory.
03:15:47.000 Saying that crosswinds or whatever at the time, changing wind directions, dismisses the fact that the objects seen on the FLIR are weather balloons.
03:15:56.000 Weather balloon is the top explanation by the debunkers, by the professional debunkers.
03:16:00.000 So I'm like, wait, so the real headline is that the government has no fucking idea what this was, dismisses the main debunked theory around this.
03:16:11.000 And then this is where the military industrial complex part of this comes in.
03:16:15.000 But they're like, and maybe it's China or Russia, like intelligence officials worry that it's China and Russia.
03:16:21.000 Why?
03:16:21.000 Because they want to put it into a box, which they can explain and try to use it to get Congress maybe to fund like something else.
03:16:29.000 And to be clear, I've dismissed the PSYOP theory that, like, the government is disclosing all this as a PSYOP for funding.
03:16:36.000 Like, this is a coordinated campaign.
03:16:38.000 I think they were dragged kicking and screaming because of Bigelow, because of Harry Reid, Jeremy Corbell, and all the videos.
03:16:45.000 Christopher Mellon.
03:16:45.000 Christopher Mellon, exactly.
03:16:46.000 Yeah, who's also been on.
03:16:47.000 Like I said, Tom DeLonge, because by bringing Lou Elizondo and all that forward in the New York Times is what broke this open.
03:16:54.000 And that is what pisses me off, which is that the government is actually just not admitting the truth and the media is going along with it, which is that we have no fucking idea what's going on.
03:17:04.000 They have no idea.
03:17:05.000 That's okay.
03:17:06.000 We have the most sophisticated tracking equipment that we know of in terms of like what what science can do.
03:17:12.000 And off the Nimitz, they tracked this thing going from 50,000 plus feet above sea level to 50 in less than a second.
03:17:20.000 They have no idea what it is.
03:17:21.000 They have no idea how it did it.
03:17:23.000 And then it went to their cat point.
03:17:25.000 So it disappeared, took off, and went to the very point where they were supposed to meet up later.
03:17:29.000 They had a predetermined point where the jets were supposed to fly to.
03:17:33.000 And this thing went there like, I know where you're going, bitch.
03:17:36.000 I know what you're up to.
03:17:37.000 Yeah, and who the fuck knows what it is or what?
03:17:39.000 I mean, we could speculate all day long, but one of the things that Jeremy released is these things that go into the water.
03:17:43.000 The transmission vehicle.
03:17:44.000 That was crazy, too.
03:17:45.000 We played it on the show.
03:17:46.000 It's fucking crazy.
03:17:47.000 They're filming this with night vision off of an aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean where no drone could ever fly.
03:17:54.000 That's the thing that people talk about drones.
03:17:56.000 Drones don't stay in the sky very long, folks.
03:17:59.000 Thank you.
03:17:59.000 It's like an hour and a half, two hours.
03:18:01.000 Yeah, they can't just fly around forever, so they can't go hundreds of miles.
03:18:06.000 They just can't.
03:18:07.000 They have to be launched somewhere that's close to the area they're traveling to.
03:18:11.000 I was very disappointed.
03:18:12.000 I'm a big fan of Neil deGrasse Tyson, but I was disappointed in kind of that.
03:18:16.000 And Musk does the same thing.
03:18:18.000 He's like, camera resolution.
03:18:19.000 Listen, Musk is a fucking alien.
03:18:21.000 That's why he's dismissed.
03:18:24.000 He's got to distract everyone from the truth.
03:18:26.000 He's also on my show, and I got him in trouble by smoking weed, and he almost lost his Top Secret clearance with NASA. And a stock price drop.
03:18:33.000 Well, it went back up the next day.
03:18:35.000 Yeah, he's fine.
03:18:35.000 But when I talk about aliens, I'm like, no aliens.
03:18:39.000 Well, come on.
03:18:39.000 Get away.
03:18:40.000 I just want to say that.
03:18:41.000 Shoo shoo.
03:18:42.000 Shoo shoo bad ideas.
03:18:43.000 He's protesting too much.
03:18:45.000 Sorry, 14 hours.
03:18:46.000 They can go for a long time.
03:18:47.000 But this is a different thing.
03:18:48.000 This is a Predator drone.
03:18:51.000 This is a completely different kind of thing.
03:18:53.000 This is the size of an aircraft carrier.
03:18:56.000 I know, I know, I know.
03:18:57.000 Just arguable.
03:18:58.000 The thing I've been thinking about is what if someone could put the Tesla technology in a commercial drone?
03:19:05.000 How fast would that fucking thing go?
03:19:07.000 Actually, that would be awesome.
03:19:08.000 Pull that back, Pat.
03:19:10.000 It goes 115 horsepower engine.
03:19:14.000 Okay, so this is a thing that goes slowly because it's got a 115 horsepower engine, which is one of the reasons why it can go so far.
03:19:22.000 Yeah, for so many hours.
03:19:24.000 Can scoot along at 300 miles an hour at a maximum of 50,000 feet.
03:19:29.000 Well, okay.
03:19:30.000 Well, I'm definitely wrong about that then because I'm thinking about drones that are civilian drones.
03:19:34.000 That's what I was thinking about the things that...
03:19:36.000 Well, this goes to the whole...
03:19:37.000 But if that can scoot along at 300 miles an hour, I don't think it can do that for 14 hours, right?
03:19:42.000 I think once it goes...
03:19:43.000 It's like a fighter jet.
03:19:44.000 The thing about fighter jets is when they go really fast, they can't...
03:19:48.000 They burn gas.
03:19:48.000 That's why they all can mid-air refuel.
03:19:50.000 Yeah.
03:19:50.000 They can't go for very long going really fast.
03:19:52.000 That's just the one they're talking about, though.
03:19:54.000 That's that one.
03:19:55.000 They might have some other ones they made that go away.
03:19:57.000 Yeah, that's a good point.
03:19:59.000 Well, here's the real point, right?
03:20:01.000 What if they've developed a nuclear-powered drone?
03:20:05.000 Like a carrier, right?
03:20:06.000 Yeah, because we know that they have submarines.
03:20:08.000 They said that these nuclear-powered aircraft carriers can go for months at a time.
03:20:14.000 Years, I think.
03:20:16.000 Yeah, like years, rather.
03:20:17.000 Just on the power of nuclear energy.
03:20:20.000 Especially the supercarrier.
03:20:21.000 Right.
03:20:21.000 So imagine if someone devised, and it's not outside the realm of possibility, right?
03:20:25.000 They can figure out some way to make a nuclear-powered drone?
03:20:28.000 I found this story, but I couldn't find enough info on it.
03:20:31.000 But there's this picture that exists of crash drones from Iran and Saudi Arabia that are triangular-shaped.
03:20:39.000 Don't know any information about what's in them because they're not telling you.
03:20:42.000 That looks like a jet.
03:20:43.000 It's shaped like a jet, right?
03:20:45.000 The weird one was that the ones were pyramid-shaped because they seemed to be three-dimensional, like literally like flying pyramids.
03:20:52.000 And they were flying in formation.
03:20:53.000 Yeah.
03:20:54.000 But again, if you have nuclear power and you could figure out a way to propel...
03:20:59.000 That's the other thing, though.
03:21:00.000 These things don't have visible propulsion systems.
03:21:03.000 That's exactly right.
03:21:04.000 In terms of all of human flight, you have to put something out in order to go forward.
03:21:09.000 Since the Wright brothers...
03:21:10.000 Actually, this whole UFO thing got me really interested in the history of flight, so that's a whole other conversation.
03:21:14.000 But with Degrassi Tyson and the photo theory, like, why have...
03:21:19.000 Guess what, guys?
03:21:20.000 In the middle of the night, the transmedium vehicle, that was at 11 p.m.
03:21:24.000 in the middle of the fucking ocean.
03:21:25.000 Wait, so is what he's saying basically, like, why aren't there any, like, good, normal...
03:21:30.000 Why aren't there better photos?
03:21:30.000 Like, we all have these cameras on us all the time.
03:21:32.000 Why is there a single, like, high-res?
03:21:34.000 Why isn't there a single photo?
03:21:36.000 And so this is, like, the big...
03:21:37.000 They're like, look, like, if you would think...
03:21:39.000 And here's my thing, which is that...
03:21:41.000 Yeah, the current ones are grainy because actually it's a miracle that we have video at all of something moving at nighttime in the middle of the fucking ocean.
03:21:51.000 Or at how high was Fravor?
03:21:53.000 Like 50,000?
03:21:54.000 I forget how high he was.
03:21:56.000 Whenever Fravor was up.
03:21:57.000 So it's like, okay, or whoever got that video, which I think was the guy who came up after him.
03:22:01.000 It's like, yeah, no shit.
03:22:02.000 It's grainy.
03:22:03.000 No shit.
03:22:04.000 It's like, that's what radar looks like when Whenever you're looking at heat signatures.
03:22:08.000 They're trying to identify things to shoot down out of the sky.
03:22:11.000 They're not looking at things like...
03:22:12.000 They're not trying to get Instagram pictures.
03:22:14.000 Try and zoom in on your camera phone next time at night and see how good your shitty resolution is.
03:22:18.000 How fast?
03:22:19.000 15,000.
03:22:20.000 Well, they have zero understanding of how fast it went because it literally disappeared in front of their eyes.
03:22:26.000 It went so fast it just vanished.
03:22:27.000 Like...
03:22:28.000 Yeah, that would be hard to capture.
03:22:32.000 Thank you, Crystal.
03:22:33.000 Thank you.
03:22:34.000 Imagine being a guy who's a fighter pilot, and you're out there in the middle of the ocean, and you follow this thing.
03:22:41.000 It's a tic-tac-shaped object as big as your airplane, and it just goes...
03:22:46.000 And you're just sitting there going, uh, what the fuck?
03:22:50.000 And multiple people saw it.
03:22:52.000 So there's two different jets and four different people looking at it.
03:22:55.000 And you're like, hey guys.
03:22:55.000 At different angles too.
03:22:56.000 From above, from bottom, and after.
03:22:58.000 What in the fuck?
03:22:59.000 And then you contact the Nimitz and they go, yeah, we've been following these things.
03:23:02.000 Didn't they say in the 60 Minutes thing this was like a regular occurrence?
03:23:05.000 That was Ryan Williams.
03:23:06.000 The pilot, Ryan Williams.
03:23:08.000 He said, I saw these things up there almost every day.
03:23:10.000 The thing that drove me the craziest about Neil deGrasse Tyson was this concept that why would they care about us?
03:23:15.000 I know!
03:23:16.000 God, thank you!
03:23:18.000 It's like he didn't really even think of that.
03:23:20.000 It's like he's got these pre-programmed responses to these things that he brings up and he's like, why would they care about us?
03:23:28.000 He's such a jovial, fun guy.
03:23:30.000 That's a fun thing to plug.
03:23:32.000 It's like a comic with his act.
03:23:33.000 I love that guy, I love Cosmos, but I was disappointed, because it's like, like you said, you were like, man, we're fucking fascinating.
03:23:39.000 I don't think that he, you know, I don't think he strays out of the bounds of, you know, like, what's the orthodoxy.
03:23:46.000 I mean, my theory is, why did everything ramp up after 1947?
03:23:51.000 Which is that we use the atomic bomb in 1945. They're like, hey, fuckheads.
03:23:55.000 Exactly.
03:23:56.000 They're like, wait, these fucking chimps can kill each other now.
03:23:59.000 And not just that, they could kill us.
03:24:00.000 Or they could kill planets.
03:24:02.000 And if you look at sci-fi, and I know I'm getting deep here, which is that the use of nuclear weapons is almost always how you know when humanity went ladder up in civilization.
03:24:13.000 And if you think about how much that changed, I would want to pay attention.
03:24:16.000 Like, if you're just paying attention.
03:24:17.000 And you're like, oh, they're fighting.
03:24:19.000 Well, all the things that Bob Lazar talked about in that Jeremy Corbell documentary, which is, by the way, my favorite documentary ever about UFOs and my absolute favorite conversation I've ever had with anyone who claims to have had an experience.
03:24:31.000 I talked to Travis Walton.
03:24:33.000 That was amazing.
03:24:34.000 But Bob Lazar was by far the most fascinating because...
03:24:37.000 A, he seems insanely sincere.
03:24:40.000 B, he knows so much about science, so much about propulsion.
03:24:43.000 And C, the things that he talked about in the 1980s proved to be true, including element 115. That was just like theoretical, right?
03:24:52.000 Yeah, that is wild.
03:24:53.000 Until the 2000s, and then someone figured it out with a particle collider.
03:24:57.000 But he was talking about this was what they used, and that they had a stable version of this.
03:25:02.000 And you've got to think about what, and this is the other thing that he talked about, like if you brought a nuclear reactor to someone in the 1400s.
03:25:09.000 They would think it was witchcraft.
03:25:10.000 And this is what the kind of technology that whatever these things are, whether they're from the future, whether they're us from the future, or whether they're from another dimension, or whether they're from another planet, whatever the fuck it is, they have technology that is indistinguishable from magic.
03:25:25.000 And Bob Lazar allegedly, according to him, worked on trying and attempting to back-engineer this thing.
03:25:32.000 And when he describes his experience with it, he has been insanely consistent forever, since the 1980s.
03:25:39.000 I do wish he hadn't...
03:25:41.000 Because we had talked about this.
03:25:42.000 Yeah, I listened to that podcast.
03:25:44.000 He was getting those before we even got on the air.
03:25:47.000 Nothing against Bob, but I respect his story.
03:25:50.000 He had an affect where if you were really skeptical...
03:25:54.000 Imagine if that was your introduction to UFOs.
03:25:56.000 For me, I always tell people...
03:25:58.000 I'm like, you start with Fravor, the most unimpeachable person there is.
03:26:02.000 You listen to him on your pod, listen to him on LexPod.
03:26:05.000 You listen to that, you're gonna believe that some shit happened.
03:26:08.000 Now, you can think that the censor went wrong, you can think that maybe, you know, the radar fucked up, or...
03:26:14.000 Mass hallucination.
03:26:15.000 Okay, fine.
03:26:16.000 I mean, I would accept that, but he believes what he's saying.
03:26:19.000 Then, you know, you listen to people like Christopher Mellon.
03:26:22.000 You look at the videos, Jeremy Corbell, George Knapp, and all these guys have put out for a long time.
03:26:26.000 Like, stick within the realm of the respectable that has been vetted by journalists.
03:26:30.000 Then it's time to listen to Bob.
03:26:32.000 Bob is when you're all in.
03:26:34.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:26:34.000 That's when you're ready for it.
03:26:35.000 Yeah.
03:26:36.000 Pops when I push all my chips in.
03:26:38.000 I'm like, I'm all in on this.
03:26:39.000 Well, gravity propulsion, right?
03:26:41.000 Transmedium vehicles.
03:26:42.000 How the fuck?
03:26:43.000 Everyone's like, oh.
03:26:44.000 I saw some idiot online.
03:26:45.000 He was like, how would it even move between air and water?
03:26:47.000 I'm like, oh, wow.
03:26:49.000 Yeah, this was the real break for Sagar with Trump when he failed to release.
03:26:55.000 That's right.
03:26:56.000 That's when he said, fuck this breath.
03:26:59.000 We're more than three hours in.
03:27:01.000 We're going to do your podcast.
03:27:03.000 That's right.
03:27:04.000 Yes.
03:27:04.000 Let's wrap this up.
03:27:05.000 Let me just tell you how happy I am that you two are independent.
03:27:09.000 I think you guys are fantastic.
03:27:10.000 I think your two together in your show is one of the most important things out there because it's a rare thing that's unmolested from the corporate media and from the ideologies on the left and the right.
03:27:22.000 And you have your own opinions on things.
03:27:25.000 You have your own perspectives.
03:27:26.000 But I know I can trust you guys.
03:27:27.000 I know you're honest.
03:27:28.000 We would never I'd never be here without you, so thank you so much.
03:27:31.000 That means so, so much.
03:27:32.000 And we're even, I mean, I think we both feel even more free, if that's possible.
03:27:37.000 Free beyond.
03:27:38.000 We feel light.
03:27:39.000 We feel very light.
03:27:40.000 When you guys, when we had that conversation on the phone, I'm like, fuck them, let's go!
03:27:44.000 You were very definitive, and thank you for being so, because it was the nudge we needed.
03:27:49.000 It really was the nudge we needed, so thank you.
03:27:51.000 I'm so happy you guys exist, so thank you.
03:27:53.000 Bless you, Joe.
03:27:54.000 Thank you.
03:27:55.000 Bless you, bless you.
03:27:56.000 Alright, bye everybody.