The Joe Rogan Experience - July 14, 2021


Joe Rogan Experience #1683 - Andrew Huberman


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 59 minutes

Words per Minute

193.9152

Word Count

34,769

Sentence Count

3,135

Misogynist Sentences

94


Summary

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, we talk about CBD, sleep, and how to get a good night's rest. We also talk about melatonin and why it's not a good sleep aid at all. Joe and Matt talk about the science of sleep and the benefits of CBD and other sleep aids, and why they don't work as well as you think they do and why you should try to get some sleep if you want to improve your overall quality of life. We also discuss the benefits and drawbacks of melatonin, and whether or not you should be taking it at all, and what you should do if you don't need to take it to help you fall asleep. If you like what you hear here, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and other podcasting platforms! We're listening to your favorite podcaster on Podcoin! Please rate, review, and subscribe to our other podcams, and tell us what you thought of this episode and what your favorite part of the pod is the most important thing you've listened to this week's episode so far! Cheers, and Happy Listening! XOXO, Joe and Mikey! xoxo, Caitlyn and Matt Thanks for listening and supporting the pod, Caitie & Mikey, and for supporting the podcast, and we'll see you next week with a new episode of the Joe Rogans Experience Podcast! Caitie and Jonny's podcast, on Tuesday Morning Podcast, by day, by night, by Monday, by Tuesday, by Wednesday, by Saturday, by day by night by day. xo, by week, by evening, by weekend, and by night by night. , by night all day, all day all day by day Thank you, are we rolling, are rolling. bye, bye, love, love you, love ya, bye. - - Joe and Jon, bye bye, Mikey and Jon xoe -- , bye, good night, bye Bye Bye, bye Love, - Mikey & Jon - P. -- - Mikey - Rachael . - Emily :) Jon & Rory ( ) Caitlyn & Joe John )


Transcript

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:05.000 Train by day.
00:00:07.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night.
00:00:08.000 All day.
00:00:14.000 Are we rolling?
00:00:15.000 Oh, we're rolling now.
00:00:17.000 Yeah, anyway, I'm just a giant fan of CBD. I use it constantly.
00:00:21.000 I use it for, like, I use the roll-ons for muscle aches, and I use gummies, and CBDMD is one of my sponsors, but this Kill Cliff Company, this is actually a drink that I designed.
00:00:35.000 It tastes really good.
00:00:36.000 Thank you.
00:00:37.000 Yeah, so many of the questions I get are about anxiety.
00:00:37.000 I like it.
00:00:40.000 People How do I control my anxiety?
00:00:42.000 People are stressed.
00:00:43.000 So the CBD is supposed to help with that.
00:00:45.000 It's supposed to help with that, and I think it does a little bit.
00:00:47.000 One of the things that I've found is CBD with THC, it alleviates even more.
00:00:54.000 I can imagine.
00:00:55.000 Add a little THC to it.
00:00:56.000 The THC probably takes the edge off.
00:00:56.000 Yeah, I can imagine.
00:00:58.000 But it's also a balancing act.
00:01:00.000 You know, the problem, like, I used to get CBD with THC from a local company in LA, and they were so inconsistent in that, like, I'd take, like, I had a thing.
00:01:10.000 I'd do, like, three droplets.
00:01:12.000 I'm like, okay, I got three droppers full, and then one day I did three droppers, and I was on the fucking moon.
00:01:17.000 I was like, what have you people done?
00:01:20.000 Street-side chemistry.
00:01:21.000 Yeah, they're all bathtub chemists.
00:01:23.000 Well, that's the thing.
00:01:25.000 I think with supplements, they're so poorly regulated.
00:01:28.000 I'm not pushing for regulation.
00:01:30.000 The last thing we need is regulation on it, but it's like melatonin.
00:01:32.000 I was talking to Matt Walker about this, my friend Matt, amazing sleep scientist.
00:01:37.000 And it turns out that the amount of melatonin, if it's listed like three milligrams or six milligrams, it can vary anywhere from being 15% of what's actually listed on the bottle to 85% more.
00:01:51.000 And if you look at how much melatonin is actually made by the pineal gland, It's a tiny fraction of the three milligrams it's supposed to be.
00:01:58.000 So melatonin, it's all over the place.
00:02:01.000 Does that mess you up if you take melatonin?
00:02:04.000 Does your body say, well, I don't need any melatonin.
00:02:07.000 I don't need to make it?
00:02:08.000 It might.
00:02:10.000 I never suggest melatonin for sleep for a couple reasons.
00:02:13.000 One is the reason kids don't go into puberty until a certain age is because they have chronically high melatonin.
00:02:19.000 Really?
00:02:20.000 Melatonin suppresses puberty.
00:02:22.000 So does it suppress your endocrine system?
00:02:25.000 So in humans, it's probably not as dramatic as it is in animals that are seasonal breeders.
00:02:29.000 But long ago, when I was a graduate student at Berkeley, we would do these experiments on these little, what are called Siberian hamsters, these little hamsters.
00:02:37.000 And these hamsters only breed in long days because light, Basically suppresses melatonin, okay?
00:02:44.000 So in short days, long nights, seasonal breeding animals shut down breeding, right?
00:02:49.000 Humans can breed all year long, of course.
00:02:52.000 But if you give melatonin to a male Siberian hamster, its testes go from the size of standard marbles to the size of a grain of rice within a week.
00:03:02.000 And the females, their ovaries involute.
00:03:02.000 Wow!
00:03:05.000 They basically turn into like little shriveled, not even raisins, but little specks.
00:03:08.000 So when I hear about people taking a lot of melatonin and you've got this whole issue with falling testosterone, dysregulated estrogen in men and women, I just think it's not the best sleep aid.
00:03:18.000 The other thing, and Matt and I have talked about this a lot recently, just we've been hanging out and Chatting about science, or as he would say, splashing around in the science of sleep.
00:03:27.000 He's a Brit after all.
00:03:30.000 The problem with melatonin is it will help you fall asleep, but it won't help you stay asleep.
00:03:34.000 And so some people have this problem.
00:03:35.000 They take melatonin, they fall asleep, and then they wake up three or four hours later.
00:03:38.000 So it wears off?
00:03:39.000 Yeah, there are much better things for sleep.
00:03:41.000 What do you choose for sleep?
00:04:00.000 Those two things work really well to, they essentially shut down the forebrain thinking, anticipating part of your brain, allow you to drift off into sleep really well.
00:04:08.000 Oh, I need that all day then if you shut that down.
00:04:11.000 Well, and then theanine is also the third thing in the cocktail.
00:04:15.000 And theanine, that is also a nootropic.
00:04:18.000 So theanine also turns on what's called the GABA system.
00:04:21.000 It's like an inhibitory neurotransmitter and it helps suppress anxiety and kind of turn off thinking.
00:04:26.000 It helps you make the transition into sleep.
00:04:27.000 Yeah, so it's magnesium threonate.
00:04:29.000 Let me write all this stuff down because I think I do need this.
00:04:32.000 Yeah, and sleep is obviously...
00:04:34.000 I sleep pretty good, but it's always...
00:04:35.000 These are a game changer.
00:04:37.000 I'll be amazed if it doesn't help.
00:04:39.000 So it's magnesium threonate, T-H-R-E-O-N-A-T-E. And that's important because there are a lot of T-H-R-E-O-N-A-T-E. E-O-N-A. Three and eight.
00:04:53.000 He's got it right there.
00:04:54.000 There it is.
00:04:54.000 Young Jamie on the ball, as always.
00:04:56.000 And basically, you know, people will probably want to know about Source.
00:05:01.000 In this case, you just go for price, right?
00:05:03.000 I mean, if you have a favorite brand, go for that, but go for price.
00:05:06.000 You know, so...
00:05:08.000 Magnesium three and eight can cross the blood brain barrier.
00:05:10.000 Cause when you take magnesium, it goes into your gut.
00:05:12.000 It doesn't necessarily get into your brain.
00:05:14.000 You've got a barrier around your brain That prevents certain things from getting in because this tissue doesn't regenerate.
00:05:19.000 So the threonate form gets brought across the blood brain barrier by a transporter.
00:05:28.000 Other forms like magnesium malate, magnesium citrate, those are good for other things.
00:05:32.000 Magnesium malate is great for muscle soreness.
00:05:34.000 Magnesium citrate is a great laxative, but magnesium threonate is going to be the one that's going to allow you to drift into sleep You know, it's interesting that you're saying this because one of the things that I've found that relaxes me more than anything is Epsom salts.
00:05:47.000 You know, I'm a big proponent of the isolation tank and the sensory deprivation tank is all filled with magnesium.
00:05:55.000 It's all filled with Epsom salts.
00:05:57.000 And it can go transdermal.
00:05:58.000 Yeah.
00:05:59.000 So that's a really unusual situation where if you, you know, you get, and there are some magnesium creams and things like that.
00:06:04.000 But you're not going to get it in the kind of volume that you get it when you lie in it like that.
00:06:08.000 And when you're doing that, what magnesium is that?
00:06:11.000 So that's usually magnesium biglycinate, which is another one of these forms of magnesium that can get transported into the brain really easily.
00:06:20.000 And most people actually are magnesium deficient.
00:06:23.000 I think most people would do well by increasing their magnesium intake.
00:06:27.000 I supplement, but I think I supplement with citrate.
00:06:30.000 Yeah, so citrate has its value.
00:06:33.000 Malate, again, it's good for muscle soreness, but three and eight, what you want to take is about 300 to 400 milligrams.
00:06:39.000 But what you'll notice is on the bottle, it'll say elemental magnesium and then magnesium will be 300 to 400. And then it'll say equals 1000 milligrams.
00:06:47.000 Basically just go for 300 to 400 milligrams and you're good.
00:06:51.000 And then the other thing is apigenin, A-P-I-G-E-N-I-N. And this stuff is terrific.
00:06:59.000 It basically, that's the only source I'm aware of.
00:07:01.000 Oh, this is like a cocktail.
00:07:02.000 Yeah, and I should be very clear that, maybe because I've been blabbing about this.
00:07:06.000 How is this cocktail put together?
00:07:08.000 Did you just put this together?
00:07:09.000 No, so I want to be really clear.
00:07:10.000 I have no relationship to these brands or anything there.
00:07:14.000 I've been blabbing about this on my podcast.
00:07:16.000 Oh, that's why.
00:07:17.000 And so someone is clearly making money out of the Amazon partnership thing or whatever.
00:07:22.000 That's why they put it.
00:07:23.000 But those are the three things.
00:07:24.000 Well, I bet a bunch of people just started buying it together because this is just frequently bought together.
00:07:28.000 So those are the three that I recommend.
00:07:28.000 Right.
00:07:31.000 And then L3. And so for Apigenin, it's 50 milligrams.
00:07:34.000 Women see the prostate health thing and they freak out.
00:07:36.000 50?
00:07:37.000 Oh, women see prostate health thing and they freak out?
00:07:39.000 Well, they think, oh, is it testosterone in a bottle?
00:07:42.000 Oh, for guys.
00:07:42.000 Yeah, whereas all the gym rats are like testosterone in a bottle.
00:07:45.000 Yeah, fuck it up, bro.
00:07:47.000 So apigenin turns on a chloride channel.
00:07:50.000 The way neurons work is you got stuff going in and out of them, and the chloride channel tends to turn off neurons a little bit in a good way and creates a...
00:07:59.000 Kind of a little sedative role.
00:08:01.000 It kind of helps you drift off into sleep.
00:08:04.000 And it's the same stuff that's in chamomile tea.
00:08:06.000 So this has no negative side effects for women?
00:08:09.000 Not that I'm aware of.
00:08:10.000 I hate that term.
00:08:10.000 Uh-oh.
00:08:11.000 Well, you know, okay.
00:08:13.000 So I know a number of people, including women, that use it.
00:08:16.000 And are fine, are still fertile.
00:08:19.000 I don't know.
00:08:20.000 I mean, I haven't tested their fertility personally.
00:08:22.000 What is the idea of the benefits for prostate health?
00:08:26.000 So it does seem to have a small amount of estrogen antagonism.
00:08:31.000 It can block estrogen receptors a little bit, but it's a very weak affinity.
00:08:35.000 Maybe calm some ladies down.
00:08:38.000 I said that.
00:08:39.000 Not Mr. Huberman.
00:08:40.000 Thank you.
00:08:41.000 Just a joke, ladies.
00:08:42.000 Stop screaming.
00:08:43.000 Years ago, I worked on hormones and development.
00:08:46.000 We could go there, hormone effects on the brain.
00:08:48.000 That was my master's thesis.
00:08:51.000 But theanine, T-H-E-A-I-N-E, also has a little bit of an anxiolytic, an anti-anxiety effect.
00:09:00.000 And there is something to think about with theanine.
00:09:02.000 People now put theanine in energy drinks so that people will drink more energy drinks and not get the jitters.
00:09:08.000 And so it's showing up.
00:09:08.000 Interesting.
00:09:10.000 I recommend taking these 30 to 60 minutes before sleep.
00:09:13.000 And what do you recommend for a dose for theanine?
00:09:16.000 For theanine, it's going to be 100 to 400 milligrams.
00:09:19.000 However, if you're a sleepwalker or you have what are called night terrors where you have really disturbing dreams, leave the theanine out because the dreams on theanine are intense.
00:09:29.000 I like them, but it's intense.
00:09:29.000 Really?
00:09:31.000 But I'm into dreaming.
00:09:32.000 I think dreaming is a really interesting green stick.
00:09:34.000 I think theanine is in that NeuroGum, isn't it?
00:09:38.000 Young Jamie?
00:09:41.000 I think it's in there.
00:09:42.000 They're putting it in everything now.
00:09:44.000 The one thing about magnesium threenate I should mention is that there are some data, not a ton, that it's also neuroprotective.
00:09:51.000 So there's at least one study, peer-reviewed, independent, you know, not a company paying for the study, but done by a laboratory with no bias, that shows that magnesium threenate can offset some forms of atrial cognitive decline.
00:10:04.000 So that's another reason.
00:10:06.000 So the cocktail of the three of them, the reason for putting the three of them together?
00:10:12.000 There seems to be some sort of synergistic effect because some people, of course, will take something for a long period of time and then it'll stop working.
00:10:20.000 You can take these, they're not habit-forming.
00:10:22.000 I mean, I've taken them consistently and then taken breaks and then go back on them.
00:10:26.000 And they really, in most cases, I mean, I guess if someone had a heart condition, a serious heart condition, anytime you mess with magnesium, because you have neurons in your heart, magnesium is involved in neuron function, obviously the usual things, check with your doctor, you know, and obviously I'm not a doctor,
00:10:41.000 I'm a professor, so I profess things, I'm not prescribing anything.
00:10:48.000 Yeah.
00:11:00.000 Yeah.
00:11:04.000 Yeah.
00:11:09.000 First of all, that was an important podcast.
00:11:11.000 It wasn't just a brilliant podcast.
00:11:14.000 It was important because people were ignoring sleep.
00:11:16.000 We heard go hard driving, hard driving, hard driving.
00:11:18.000 And it's very important that people understand that the fundamental layer of health, mental health and physical health is regular quality sleep.
00:11:26.000 So he scared people appropriately, I think.
00:11:28.000 And now he's shifting to how can you get better at sleeping?
00:11:32.000 And we're joining forces in that mission.
00:11:34.000 But I want to be really clear.
00:11:35.000 He's doing it on his own, too.
00:11:37.000 I don't want to give away what he's got planned, but basically he, so Matt, David Sinclair, me, you know, Lex, all the nerds were kind of like, we're trying to get out there with the scientific information and help people.
00:11:48.000 And so Matt's got some really terrific sleep science and actionable sleep tool plans for the world.
00:11:53.000 Well, when is he going to do that?
00:11:55.000 I'd love to have him back on when he's ready to launch that.
00:11:57.000 Okay, Matt, I'm going to out you now.
00:11:59.000 So, yeah, so he and I had a discussion recently.
00:12:03.000 He is talking about doing a brief weekly podcast on sleep health, launching sometime in August or September, which I just think is going to help so many people.
00:12:14.000 Sure, and brief would make it nice because it's easy to digest.
00:12:17.000 Yeah, I still haven't learned the brief thing.
00:12:19.000 I'm not well known for being concise.
00:12:21.000 Well, you're talking to me, man.
00:12:23.000 I can't shut the fuck up.
00:12:24.000 Well, I would say I have kind of a scientific Tourette's.
00:12:27.000 It's like some people with Tourette's, they shout out like explicatives like I'm shouting out scientific information.
00:12:33.000 Well, that's great.
00:12:33.000 I can't help it.
00:12:34.000 It just means you love what you do.
00:12:36.000 I can't help myself.
00:12:36.000 I do.
00:12:37.000 Now, using theanine to help sleep seems so strange to me that it would also be a nootropic, that it would also be something that enhances brain function.
00:12:47.000 Because it kind of...
00:12:48.000 I take...
00:12:50.000 AlphaBrain just released it today, AlphaBrain Black Label, the strongest version of AlphaBrain, which I've been testing over the last six months.
00:13:01.000 Actually, more.
00:13:02.000 Is it AlphaGPC at high dose?
00:13:04.000 No, I'll tell you what exactly.
00:13:05.000 We had our original AlphaBrain from Onnit, and then there's an ad for it that they just put out today.
00:13:12.000 There's a new version of AlphaBrain that's been really beneficial to me.
00:13:18.000 For me, we did some double-blind placebo-controlled studies at the Boston Center for Memory when we first released AlphaBrain.
00:13:25.000 So what do you think about this stuff here?
00:13:27.000 So it's got theanine in it.
00:13:28.000 Yep.
00:13:29.000 So the theanine is going to take down some of the stimulant effect of the caffeine and kind of, you know, the best way to work, the best nootropic is something that's going to put you in alert but calm.
00:13:39.000 Right.
00:13:39.000 You don't want to be super jazzed.
00:13:41.000 You don't want to be on amphetamines.
00:13:42.000 I mean, if you're on them, you think you want to be on them.
00:13:42.000 No.
00:13:45.000 You don't want to be on them.
00:13:47.000 So the theanine is going to take the edge off.
00:13:50.000 The caffeine anhydrous is the right form of caffeine.
00:13:52.000 You guys have good people working on this.
00:13:56.000 The phosphatidylsteine is going to actually be a little bit of a reduction of cortisol.
00:14:02.000 Which is good.
00:14:03.000 Most people are riding high on cortisol and not a good way.
00:14:05.000 You want cortisol each day, and we can talk about how to time it, but you want to time that peak in the right way.
00:14:11.000 Acetylcholine is going to increase acetylcholine, which is involved in the brain's ability to focus, to create that tunnel of attention, which is critical, right?
00:14:20.000 I mean, you can't be all over the place.
00:14:22.000 And the Ludimax 2020, I don't know.
00:14:24.000 That looks like a proprietary blend.
00:14:26.000 Let's see.
00:14:27.000 Marigold carotenoids.
00:14:29.000 Oh, lutein.
00:14:29.000 That's going to be good for vision.
00:14:31.000 Those are going to be good for eye health.
00:14:33.000 And actually, I looked into it based on our last discussion.
00:14:35.000 So for moderate to advanced macular degeneration, the data on lutein are good.
00:14:40.000 It supports healthier vision.
00:14:42.000 Yeah, I take lutein every day now.
00:14:44.000 I spoke to my chairman of ophthalmology at Stanford, asked him, what's the story on lutein?
00:14:48.000 He said, for moderate to severe macular degeneration, there seems to be a positive effect there.
00:14:54.000 For people that have mild or early forms of macular degeneration, the data aren't there yet.
00:14:59.000 And I said, But is it reasonable to consider taking it as a preventative?
00:15:03.000 Yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing.
00:15:05.000 Whatever has happened with me over the last year or so, my vision has stopped deteriorating.
00:15:13.000 Yeah.
00:15:13.000 That's great.
00:15:13.000 I have another theory, which is you're living in Texas now.
00:15:17.000 No joke.
00:15:17.000 And because this isn't a joke...
00:15:20.000 Because you're living in Texas, you're actually getting longer vista views.
00:15:24.000 You're looking at things at a distance more often.
00:15:26.000 I'm guessing.
00:15:27.000 I don't know your home environment or your lifestyle terribly much, at all really.
00:15:31.000 But we know that long distance viewing and getting outside into sunlight can offset macular degeneration and myopia, nearsightedness.
00:15:40.000 There's a huge, meaning thousands of subjects.
00:15:43.000 Study that was done in the US, also overseas, so the multiple site clinical trial, showing that if children get outside for two hours a day, even if they're on their phones, I hate to say it, but even if they're on their phones and they're reading and doing their thing, they don't develop nearsightedness.
00:15:59.000 And just being outside in natural light seems to help Offset vision loss.
00:16:05.000 And the reason is that when you look at things up close, the eyeball actually lengthens.
00:16:10.000 And because there's a lens there, the light gets focused in front of the retina, not on the retina, which is what you need in order to pass that information to the brain.
00:16:18.000 So that when you put on eyeglasses, you're basically giving it another lens to focus at the right place.
00:16:22.000 When you look at things at a distance, you use the musculature of the eye in a process called accommodation.
00:16:28.000 People can look it up.
00:16:29.000 We don't have to get into the details.
00:16:30.000 That lens becomes and remains bendy.
00:16:34.000 The lens in your eye bends.
00:16:35.000 It actually squishes and bends.
00:16:37.000 It's not like a standard rigid lens.
00:16:39.000 And so looking at things in the distance, getting natural light, actually blue light is good for us in the sense during the daytime, improves eye health.
00:16:47.000 It reduces myopia nearsightedness and can offset the progression of age-related macular degeneration.
00:16:53.000 Now, people shouldn't be blasting themselves with bright light because that can cause other issues.
00:16:57.000 But as long as the light isn't painful to look at, you're in safe territory.
00:17:02.000 So if someone is experiencing the beginning of macular degeneration, do you recommend going somewhere where you can see long distances and just concentrate on just how often should you do something like that?
00:17:13.000 For every 30 minutes of looking at a screen or a phone, you should look off into the distance for about five minutes.
00:17:18.000 Now that doesn't mean you have to do the thousand mile stair.
00:17:21.000 Just get outside.
00:17:23.000 I hate that we weren't designed because I wasn't consulted at the design phase and no one I know was either.
00:17:28.000 But we evolved from lifestyles of looking at things up close and far away.
00:17:34.000 And we're just spending a ton of time now looking at things up close.
00:17:37.000 And the visual system and the brain will adapt to that.
00:17:38.000 So kids that grow up only looking at computers and screens and don't go outside, they require like Coke bottle thick glasses.
00:17:45.000 The nerd thing, like that nerds wear glasses, part of that is because nerds spend a lot of time reading.
00:17:50.000 So it's a real thing.
00:17:53.000 Yeah, it's not just that they have glasses so that they become nerds because people pick on them.
00:17:58.000 Self-imposed nerdiness, or I guess you'd call it.
00:18:01.000 And you mentioned last time, I think, maybe it was offline, that you have a friend who's a hunter.
00:18:05.000 Yeah.
00:18:06.000 Who's got great vision into his later years.
00:18:08.000 Yeah, that's my friend Cam Haynes.
00:18:10.000 This motherfucker.
00:18:11.000 Oh, the runner?
00:18:11.000 Yeah.
00:18:12.000 He sees perfectly.
00:18:13.000 Yeah.
00:18:14.000 It's ridiculous.
00:18:15.000 Yeah.
00:18:15.000 How old is he?
00:18:15.000 He's my age, that fuck.
00:18:17.000 I see his running videos.
00:18:20.000 He's a freak.
00:18:20.000 It's impressive.
00:18:21.000 Well, he and David running and the whole thing.
00:18:23.000 Yeah, they're both mutants.
00:18:24.000 Yeah, that's right.
00:18:25.000 They're mutants.
00:18:25.000 Yeah, like legitimate mutants.
00:18:26.000 Yeah, they're mutants.
00:18:27.000 Yeah.
00:18:27.000 Absolutely.
00:18:28.000 I don't understand how his joints are holding up.
00:18:30.000 That's what's driving me crazy.
00:18:31.000 Like my knees, I'm getting stem cells shot into them.
00:18:34.000 You do the PRP the whole thing.
00:18:35.000 I do all kinds of shit.
00:18:36.000 I'm just trying to keep them active.
00:18:38.000 I think running, I guess, has got to be different than kicking things.
00:18:42.000 Kicking things and jujitsu are very hard in the knees.
00:18:46.000 It's very hard.
00:18:47.000 I think it was because maybe Jamie mentioned it or you mentioned the knees over toes guy.
00:18:51.000 Yes.
00:18:52.000 Yeah.
00:18:52.000 I'll tell you why I love this guy.
00:18:53.000 He's amazing.
00:18:54.000 I don't know him, but I'll tell you why I love him.
00:18:56.000 I've always had an anterior tib machine in my gym.
00:18:59.000 Ah.
00:19:00.000 Because, and I didn't know why I needed this thing, but I knew I needed it.
00:19:03.000 I would get hip problems and like a sciatica on one side.
00:19:07.000 Because I like lifting.
00:19:08.000 I've been lifting since I was younger and it just makes me happier, saner human being.
00:19:14.000 I noticed I would get this tweak on my right side, and then I started using the anterior tib machine and it went away.
00:19:20.000 Now he could probably tell me why, it's gotta be some ankle up to hip alignment.
00:19:23.000 So I bought one of those, and people always laugh, like in my home gym I got a tib machine, a glute ham raise.
00:19:28.000 I got one of these Louie Simmons reverse hybrids.
00:19:31.000 Oh, those are the best!
00:19:32.000 Because of last time you gave me the tutorial.
00:19:34.000 How great is that machine?
00:19:35.000 Amazing.
00:19:36.000 My posture is better.
00:19:37.000 It's still not perfect.
00:19:38.000 I still, you know, I'm kind of...
00:19:39.000 That thing saved my back.
00:19:40.000 It really has.
00:19:42.000 It's amazing.
00:19:42.000 Because I'm still doing stupid shit with my body, you know, at 54, almost.
00:19:46.000 54 next month.
00:19:47.000 You seem very healthy.
00:19:47.000 Beating it up, though.
00:19:49.000 And the reverse hyper has kept it strong enough so that I can be really active and still do things like jujitsu and kickboxing and...
00:19:57.000 When you look at measures of longevity, and of course, Sinclair is the ninja on all this, but how fast people are able to stand up.
00:20:06.000 You know, some people say, okay, let's go, and they...
00:20:08.000 It's like a slow, low-gear movement that takes half an hour, you know?
00:20:12.000 And other people, they just pop up.
00:20:14.000 The ability to jump, they're very well correlated with health and well-being and the ability to, I think, as Sinclair says, hip fractures are a big cause of early death.
00:20:23.000 It sounds weird, you think it's a hip fracture, Then you're sedentary.
00:20:27.000 Circulation slows down.
00:20:28.000 Everything gets messed up.
00:20:29.000 But knees over toes, guys, I love his stuff because he's really pointing to the fact that this muscle on the shin, right, is so vital for knee health.
00:20:39.000 And for me, it's really helped with the lower back thing.
00:20:42.000 And it's an odd thing to sit there and kind of point your toes like ballerina exercises, but you feel stable when you run.
00:20:49.000 So strong feet, strong shins.
00:20:52.000 It's really interesting when you realize how many of these things are connected to each other.
00:20:56.000 Like one of the things that I've found is that stretching your quadriceps also stretches your lower back.
00:21:03.000 You know that stretch where you sit down on your heels and then you lean all the way back?
00:21:08.000 Oh, yeah.
00:21:09.000 You know, he's amazing, the knees over toes back.
00:21:11.000 Oh, yeah.
00:21:11.000 The stuff he does is...
00:21:12.000 He goes all the way back and with no hands comes up.
00:21:14.000 I can't really do that.
00:21:15.000 I can't go flat on my back and come back up, but I can go flat on my back.
00:21:18.000 And when I do that, I feel a deep stretch in my lower back.
00:21:22.000 And it makes me realize like, oh, like there's some tension in my thighs that's fucking with my lower back.
00:21:29.000 Like for me, stretching is so imperative.
00:21:32.000 It's so important.
00:21:34.000 Stretching and massage.
00:21:36.000 And I went without...
00:21:37.000 Well, I've kind of always stretched at least a little bit.
00:21:40.000 You know, like maybe at least 10 minutes after training.
00:21:43.000 But I've been doing a lot more.
00:21:45.000 I've been giving myself a full 35 minutes after training just to stretch.
00:21:48.000 But then massage every week.
00:21:50.000 I've been doing that every week for the last month or so.
00:21:52.000 Is it that deep tissue?
00:21:53.000 Oh my god, it's so painful.
00:21:55.000 These ladies beat the shit out of me.
00:21:56.000 The roll thing?
00:21:57.000 The roll thing?
00:21:57.000 It's just deep tissue.
00:21:59.000 It's just horrific, deep tissue, painful massage.
00:22:02.000 Like when they do my thighs, I don't know what it is about.
00:22:04.000 That guy.
00:22:04.000 That guy's a freak.
00:22:06.000 This guy.
00:22:06.000 That's a freak.
00:22:07.000 He's a freak.
00:22:07.000 I think he's up in Sacramento or something.
00:22:09.000 I don't know him.
00:22:10.000 One of the things that I really love about this guy is that he gives away all this information for free.
00:22:15.000 Yes.
00:22:15.000 Like all this stuff that he puts on his Instagram, this can benefit so many people.
00:22:19.000 And his program is very intensive.
00:22:22.000 If you go to his, I think it's called the Athletic Truth Group.
00:22:26.000 Is that what it is?
00:22:28.000 But just go to knees over toes guy on Instagram.
00:22:30.000 He shows all these different exercises.
00:22:33.000 That shit that he's doing in that one, that is so hard to do.
00:22:36.000 Yeah, I think that's like a Jefferson dent.
00:22:37.000 Oh, with the toes.
00:22:38.000 Yes!
00:22:39.000 With the toes up at that angle like that, to be able to do that with a box and to drop a kettlebell down, he's going way below his toes.
00:22:48.000 That's incredible flexibility.
00:22:50.000 I think as somebody who is big on putting information out on the internet free.
00:22:56.000 Free public education.
00:22:57.000 I love what he's doing.
00:22:59.000 I also think that he's also can do all the things he's talking about doing.
00:23:02.000 He's dunking basketball.
00:23:03.000 Yes.
00:23:04.000 And he's had multiple knee surgeries, too.
00:23:06.000 Oh, yeah.
00:23:07.000 Yeah, multiple knee surgeries.
00:23:08.000 I believe he's actually had a cadaver meniscus graft.
00:23:13.000 Oh, wow.
00:23:13.000 Which is crazy.
00:23:14.000 That means his knees are fucked.
00:23:16.000 He's got dead people in here.
00:23:16.000 Yeah.
00:23:17.000 I've got dead people in one of my knees.
00:23:19.000 Do you?
00:23:19.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:23:20.000 This knee, I got a cadaver ACL. It's actually not an ACL. They take the Achilles tendon, which is thicker and stronger, so it's 150% stronger than the original ACL, and then they replace it.
00:23:30.000 And then the other one, I have a patella tendon graft ACL. Wow.
00:23:34.000 Yeah, I mean, I agree completely with your statement.
00:23:37.000 It's all connected.
00:23:39.000 These days, I'm still a neuroscientist, obviously, thinking about the brain a lot, but the connections between the brain and body and all the stuff going on in the body, we now know impacts the brain.
00:23:48.000 I mean, it's a whole system.
00:23:49.000 And I think that maybe he was on here a few years ago, Kelly Starrett?
00:23:53.000 Yes.
00:23:54.000 Yeah, he's awesome.
00:23:55.000 Great guy.
00:23:56.000 And he always says, you know, if you injure a joint, you want to work things above and below that joint.
00:24:02.000 You know, and for years he's been telling me, you know, I've got like a shoulder that sits and the sciatica thing.
00:24:07.000 And he's like, well, train your neck, train your ankles, train your, you know, it seems crazy.
00:24:11.000 Why would I train my neck if my hip is off?
00:24:14.000 You know, Kelly just replaced his knee.
00:24:16.000 Did he really?
00:24:17.000 Yeah.
00:24:17.000 He had a bad ski accident a couple years ago and really just mangled the inside of his knee.
00:24:22.000 And he was doing his best to try to repair it and try to keep it healthy.
00:24:27.000 And it just wasn't working anymore.
00:24:28.000 Couldn't squat.
00:24:29.000 Couldn't do a lot of things.
00:24:30.000 He's a big guy.
00:24:31.000 He's a big guy.
00:24:31.000 And he just had a knee replacement.
00:24:33.000 Wow.
00:24:34.000 Yeah, it resurfaced his knees.
00:24:35.000 But if you go to his page...
00:24:38.000 What do they call it?
00:24:39.000 Ready State?
00:24:40.000 Yeah, the Ready State.
00:24:41.000 The Ready State on Instagram.
00:24:44.000 He had the knee resurfacing multiple months ago.
00:24:48.000 I think it was like five or six months ago.
00:24:51.000 And he's already deadlifting, doing all kinds of crazy stuff.
00:24:55.000 And apparently the way they do it now, if you go to a really good doctor, you know, there's obviously, you want to be real careful with something like this because this is something that It's not necessarily really permanent.
00:25:07.000 You know, if you beat it up, because they're using different surfaces, different people using different plastics and ceramics and different things to resurface the knee.
00:25:16.000 But, you know, he's able to do all kinds of wild shit that he couldn't do anymore.
00:25:23.000 So for him, it was one of those choices that it's an unfortunate choice, but he had to make it.
00:25:29.000 Michael Bisping, former UFC middleweight champion, He actually just got both of his knees resurfaced.
00:25:34.000 Wow.
00:25:35.000 Yeah, because he's too fucking tough for his own good.
00:25:37.000 He was running while his knees were just mangled.
00:25:40.000 So the inside of his knees, the cartilage was all shot and the meniscus was shot.
00:25:45.000 Because all the years of wrestling and kickboxing and all the fights that he's had.
00:25:48.000 So he just got both of them resurfaced and he's running again.
00:25:51.000 Wow.
00:25:52.000 Yeah, martial arts seems really hard on the knees.
00:25:54.000 I grew up skateboarding.
00:25:56.000 I wasn't real close with him, but Danny Wei, the guy that jumped the Great Wall of China and all that, he's had his knees replaced so many times.
00:26:01.000 Really?
00:26:02.000 Oh, and recently he's been posting some stuff.
00:26:05.000 He's had his knees replaced more than once?
00:26:06.000 Multiple times.
00:26:07.000 And Danny, he put videos up on Instagram of them suctioning all the stuff out of the knee.
00:26:12.000 And he was doing some of this no anesthesia.
00:26:15.000 What?
00:26:16.000 Why?
00:26:17.000 Because he's Evil Knievel.
00:26:19.000 But why is he doing that?
00:26:21.000 I think to put it...
00:26:22.000 I don't know.
00:26:22.000 I don't know why he's doing it.
00:26:24.000 Why is he doing no anesthesia?
00:26:24.000 I mean, when we were kids, he was like that too.
00:26:27.000 Is this Rampage?
00:26:28.000 He's with Rampage, I think, at the doctor's office.
00:26:31.000 Oh my god.
00:26:31.000 So they need wheelchair assistance.
00:26:33.000 Yeah, so they went down to Columbia, I think it was.
00:26:36.000 Oh, this is the bioaccelerator place.
00:26:38.000 Yeah, and burring inside of the knee joint.
00:26:43.000 But Danny's my age, right?
00:26:46.000 So what's interesting, recently there's a lot of discussion about broken ankles.
00:26:51.000 So when Danny Wei jumped the Great Wall of China, I think it was 16 years ago recently, it was in July, when he did that, That's one of those...
00:27:00.000 When he jumped the Great Wall of China, he broke his ankle, legitimate break of the ankle, the day before, and then jumped it three times.
00:27:10.000 On a broken ankle.
00:27:11.000 And I have validation on this because the photographer for my podcast is a guy named Mike Blayback.
00:27:16.000 He's the DC photographer.
00:27:17.000 And he shot all this.
00:27:18.000 They got all of this on film.
00:27:19.000 So the ankle was like this big.
00:27:22.000 So the other night when I saw that fight, I don't know much about UFC, but I'm still learning from friends.
00:27:27.000 And I saw that ankle break.
00:27:29.000 My first thought was, well, you know, Danny might just wrap it up and keep going.
00:27:34.000 That wasn't an ankle break.
00:27:35.000 He broke his tibia.
00:27:36.000 His tibia and his fibula.
00:27:38.000 Yeah, it looked higher than the ankle.
00:27:39.000 Yeah, it was higher.
00:27:40.000 It was an injury that they had sustained, that he had sustained in training.
00:27:44.000 He got it scanned.
00:27:46.000 If you go to Laura Senko's page, she's, uh, is this him?
00:27:50.000 This is on a broken ankle.
00:27:51.000 This is him getting practice.
00:27:52.000 Yeah, so...
00:27:53.000 Oh my god.
00:27:55.000 So, a week...
00:27:56.000 Oh my god.
00:27:57.000 What's wild is a week before this, Next day with a fractured ankle.
00:28:02.000 A guy on a mountain bike died doing this a week before.
00:28:05.000 Really?
00:28:05.000 Yep.
00:28:06.000 On a mountain bike?
00:28:07.000 Yeah.
00:28:07.000 On the same ramp?
00:28:08.000 This is on a broken ankle.
00:28:09.000 Look at this motherfucker.
00:28:10.000 Oh my god.
00:28:12.000 Yeah, when we were kids...
00:28:13.000 What a bad motherfucker he is.
00:28:15.000 Jesus Christ, that is so wild.
00:28:17.000 The amount of air he's getting is insane.
00:28:21.000 Wow, that's incredible.
00:28:23.000 Look at him walking like that with a broken ankle, like it ain't shit.
00:28:26.000 When we were kids, we'd go to these what are called lock-ins, they'd lock up the skate park at night, you could skate all night, but if you left, you couldn't come back in.
00:28:32.000 And Danny and his buddy Colin McKay, they were this little gang, they called themselves the Red Dragons, and they would just, for every time, it's like one run when you drop in and take a run, Danny would get 20 runs to everyone's run.
00:28:44.000 He'd just start, I mean, he's always had that.
00:28:47.000 Listen to Slayer, like, just, that's him.
00:28:50.000 Wow.
00:28:51.000 And, well, that's, you know, that's that.
00:28:54.000 So John Cavanaugh, who's Conor McGregor's coach, That's Laura.
00:29:00.000 Laura Sanko is one of the UFC commentators, and she did an excellent interview with Kavanaugh, and they went over all the things that happened, and one of the things that happened in training camp was they think it probably cracked in training camp,
00:29:16.000 and he got it scanned, and they said there might have been something there, but it's hard to tell.
00:29:22.000 It's probably some sort of a hairline fracture.
00:29:24.000 And they did their best to just stay healthy until they get into the fight.
00:29:28.000 But if you go to Laura's interview, it's really excellent.
00:29:30.000 And Kavanaugh explains that.
00:29:33.000 And it looks like John Wayne Parr picked up something too.
00:29:37.000 It looked like the shin was compromised on one of the leg kicks too.
00:29:41.000 Not the one that Dustin thought.
00:29:43.000 Dustin thought that it was probably damaged more than once.
00:29:48.000 Because Dustin checked one of the kicks and then pointed to Conor's shin.
00:29:53.000 Like, I know that hurt you.
00:29:56.000 But this one, this is from John Wayne Parr's page.
00:29:58.000 He throws his kick.
00:29:59.000 If you watch Conor's shin, see, look, it kind of buckles right there.
00:30:04.000 See that?
00:30:06.000 That ain't good.
00:30:07.000 Now right after it buckles there, this is what John put up.
00:30:11.000 Right afterwards, Connor then throws a front kick, and that's right there, and that front kick hits the knee.
00:30:17.000 Now as it puts it down, his shin is shot now.
00:30:22.000 Now he goes to throw a punch.
00:30:23.000 He throws a punch, and then as he steps back...
00:30:27.000 No, he doesn't have it on his.
00:30:29.000 If you go to mine, you'll see that.
00:30:31.000 If you go to mine, go to my Instagram and you'll see I reposted it from Eric Nixick from Extreme Couture.
00:30:43.000 So he throws this front kick, and as he throws the front kick, it hits the elbow at the point.
00:30:51.000 So he's throwing it up.
00:30:52.000 See that?
00:30:53.000 And bam!
00:30:53.000 It catches it, and then it goes down.
00:30:56.000 And right now, he's standing on that fractured.
00:30:58.000 So he puts it behind him.
00:30:59.000 Watch.
00:31:00.000 He puts it behind him, and then he throws the punch.
00:31:03.000 And then when he goes to throw the punch, he picks the foot off the ground...
00:31:07.000 Right, here's the left hand.
00:31:09.000 That almost looked like it bent back.
00:31:10.000 But watch this.
00:31:10.000 It did bend back, but watch this.
00:31:12.000 Bang!
00:31:12.000 Then it just gives out completely.
00:31:14.000 See, it folds over.
00:31:16.000 So it was snapped above the ankle.
00:31:20.000 It wasn't actually the ankle.
00:31:21.000 It was above the ankle.
00:31:22.000 Here's what's really crazy.
00:31:24.000 There's been so many fights in the UFC, and to have all these breaks in a row, there's been Jacques-Roy Sousa got his arm broken, Chris Weidman got his leg broken.
00:31:38.000 There's been a ton of breaks over and over and over again.
00:31:41.000 There's something going on.
00:31:42.000 Just people are getting good at breaking people's bones.
00:31:45.000 That's really what it is.
00:31:47.000 And the Chris Weidman one's a freak accident.
00:31:49.000 The craziest thing is, Chris Weidman, there's only been, I think, one, two, three, four.
00:31:56.000 There's been four leg breaks like that in the UFC, in the history of the UFC. Chris Weidman's been involved in two of them.
00:32:04.000 The odds are insane.
00:32:05.000 Insane.
00:32:06.000 Anderson Silva threw a kick.
00:32:07.000 He checked it.
00:32:08.000 Anderson broke his knee.
00:32:09.000 He threw a kick.
00:32:10.000 Uriah Hall checked it.
00:32:12.000 Or Anderson broke his leg, rather.
00:32:13.000 He threw it.
00:32:14.000 Uriah Hall checked it.
00:32:15.000 He broke his leg.
00:32:16.000 Crazy.
00:32:17.000 That is crazy.
00:32:17.000 The odds of these things happening, like in this number, are nuts.
00:32:23.000 That is crazy.
00:32:24.000 Yeah.
00:32:24.000 Brutal sport.
00:32:25.000 Like I said, I'm only recently exposed to it.
00:32:28.000 I do not understand the ground game, because as an outsider, there's just no way to comprehend.
00:32:32.000 I can't tell.
00:32:34.000 Who's in control, basically?
00:32:36.000 Yeah, it's complicated.
00:32:37.000 It's like watching chess if you don't understand the rules.
00:32:40.000 Like, why is he allowed to move like that with that piece?
00:32:43.000 It's a real problem for judging, because a lot of the judges don't understand the ground game either.
00:32:50.000 It's getting better.
00:32:51.000 The ones in Nevada are getting really good, and that's the gold standard.
00:32:54.000 But the problem is, in other states, we'll go to these different states, and the MMA commissions are very new, so they're using boxing judges.
00:33:04.000 And the boxing judges don't understand some boxing judges, don't understand these submission techniques.
00:33:11.000 If they've trained, that's ideal.
00:33:13.000 Ideal, you really should be at least a blue belt or above as a judge, rather.
00:33:20.000 It seems right.
00:33:21.000 In science, we don't let people review papers unless they have been in the game a long time.
00:33:25.000 Yeah.
00:33:26.000 It's...
00:33:26.000 Careers are on the line.
00:33:27.000 Ground game's complicated.
00:33:29.000 I mean, I've been training since 1996, and there's still some shit that I don't understand.
00:33:32.000 There's some moves, like when I... There's a local Austin internet streaming jiu-jitsu competition that happens every month.
00:33:40.000 It's called Who's Number One?
00:33:41.000 It's the elite of the elite.
00:33:43.000 It's really amazing, because we get to go see it at the Marriott here.
00:33:46.000 We'll go live and watch it.
00:33:48.000 And sometimes there's techniques that these guys are doing that I'm like, what is it?
00:33:54.000 Oh, the ankles?
00:33:54.000 Oh, Okay, see?
00:33:55.000 Oh, I see.
00:33:56.000 Oh, how did he do that?
00:33:58.000 And then I'll have to go watch a video and go, oh, he sets it up with a wrist.
00:34:02.000 And you see, like, these weird ankle locks or some new foot lock or some new way to set up a heel hook or some new kind of, like, a choke.
00:34:11.000 And you're like, this...
00:34:11.000 It's wild.
00:34:12.000 Like, jujitsu is...
00:34:14.000 You know, there's two arms and two legs and a neck, right?
00:34:17.000 These are basically the things that you're trying to submit.
00:34:20.000 But the combinations and the variables, when you add them all together, there's just so many possibilities of things that you can do to someone and things that you can do to counter someone when they're trying to do something to you.
00:34:32.000 Sounds super scientific.
00:34:34.000 I keep asking Lex Friedman to give me a tutorial.
00:34:37.000 He'd be perfect for it.
00:34:38.000 Yeah, he'd be great.
00:34:39.000 Break it down like a scientist, like nerd to nerd.
00:34:41.000 Just tell us how it works.
00:34:42.000 And he's a legit black belt.
00:34:44.000 So, yeah, you would enjoy it, I think.
00:34:46.000 I think you'd enjoy it, especially because you're such a physical guy.
00:34:49.000 I mean, I like physical effort.
00:34:52.000 Yeah.
00:34:53.000 It's a serious time commitment, right?
00:34:55.000 I mean, you're not going to do 45 minutes in and out.
00:34:58.000 You're there for a couple hours.
00:34:59.000 You're there for a 90-minute class, yeah.
00:35:01.000 And you recommend if someone were going to start, they maybe two, three times a week?
00:35:05.000 Or is it a daily commitment?
00:35:07.000 No, you don't have to do it every day.
00:35:09.000 I mean, if you did, you'd get better, but you'd also get injured.
00:35:11.000 So I think in the beginning, two times a week is really good.
00:35:17.000 And then build up to more if you enjoy it.
00:35:19.000 I think you'd probably enjoy it.
00:35:22.000 But I've seen people get pretty damn good inside of six months, especially someone like you who's very physical and already in shape.
00:35:29.000 Maybe we'll give it a shot.
00:35:30.000 It'd be fun, man.
00:35:31.000 Lex, go easy on me.
00:35:32.000 There's a lot of places where you're at, out near the Bay Area, but there's a lot of places here, too.
00:35:41.000 John Donaher is actually moving here now.
00:35:44.000 And he's moving.
00:35:45.000 That's literally the best jiu-jitsu team on earth.
00:35:47.000 I think I saw your podcast with him and Lexus.
00:35:50.000 Is he a New Zealander guy?
00:35:52.000 Yes.
00:35:52.000 He was a philosophy professor at Columbia.
00:35:55.000 That's wild.
00:35:55.000 And fell in love with jiu-jitsu.
00:35:57.000 That's wild.
00:35:57.000 And now he's...
00:35:58.000 I mean, his dedication to it is obscene.
00:36:02.000 It's so...
00:36:03.000 I mean, he's seven days a week.
00:36:04.000 He teaches a class seven days a week.
00:36:06.000 And he never takes days off, including holidays.
00:36:09.000 He takes no days off.
00:36:10.000 He has no family.
00:36:11.000 He has no girlfriend.
00:36:13.000 Just jiu-jitsu.
00:36:14.000 Just jiu-jitsu.
00:36:15.000 And when he's not doing classes, he's studying tape.
00:36:19.000 Sounds like a scientist.
00:36:21.000 Well, he's literally, you couldn't ask for a better coach because he's so obsessed.
00:36:26.000 And because of that obsession, it's almost impossible to get a better coach.
00:36:31.000 No, it's impossible to get a better coach.
00:36:33.000 Literally impossible.
00:36:34.000 You get a really good coach.
00:36:36.000 There's great coaches.
00:36:37.000 You cannot get a better coach.
00:36:38.000 It's not possible.
00:36:40.000 There's guys that are probably as good as John.
00:36:42.000 I never met him.
00:36:43.000 But there's guys that are really good.
00:36:45.000 You know, Eddie Bravo is really fucking good.
00:36:46.000 I mean, he might be as good as John as a coach.
00:36:49.000 But to get a better coach is not humanly possible.
00:36:52.000 And to get a more dedicated coach, they don't exist.
00:36:55.000 You're not going to find someone that can teach the way that guy does seven days a week and also afterwards study tape all day.
00:37:04.000 So something will happen in class where someone will catch someone with some sort of a technique and then they'll say, okay, what is the counter to this?
00:37:13.000 How does someone get out of this?
00:37:15.000 Let's start in that position and let's analyze it.
00:37:17.000 So they'll do that and he'll go home and he'll find incidences of this technique being used in MMA, this technique being used in wrestling, and he'll analyze it and he'll break it down in slow motion and then he'll take notes and then he'll come back to class the next day with some new strategies.
00:37:33.000 I love it.
00:37:34.000 It's wild, man, because it really is a science.
00:37:36.000 Jiu-jitsu is a science.
00:37:37.000 Yeah, the way you describe it is the way a scientist gets obsessed with a problem and goes into the literature and then starts tinkering around in the lab, and it's a process.
00:37:45.000 It's an amazing art.
00:37:47.000 It really is.
00:37:48.000 It's just too bad the human body breaks so easy.
00:37:51.000 Well, there are things.
00:37:53.000 I mean, I think that the...
00:37:55.000 You know, we hear a lot about age longevity, you know, living a long time.
00:37:58.000 But there's the other one, which is performance longevity.
00:38:01.000 Yes.
00:38:01.000 And I'm very interested in that.
00:38:03.000 And Stanford has a whole growing interest in human performance.
00:38:06.000 And I've had an interest in this for a long time.
00:38:08.000 I mean, you know, there are all the things that we talk about for normal health and well-being for the general public, all the stuff that before 2020 no one thought about.
00:38:15.000 And now people are saying, oh, maybe I should take some responsibility for my mental and physical health sleep.
00:38:21.000 Yes.
00:38:21.000 Hydration, physical exercise, all the things that you talk about and that I certainly believe in wholeheartedly people should do.
00:38:27.000 In the world of high performance, Those same things, it's gonna be light, temperature, hormone.
00:38:35.000 The hormone augmentation thing is always a little bit of a complicated discussion, but there's so much that's happening there right now that's really interesting.
00:38:41.000 Like what?
00:38:42.000 Well, for instance, sort of back to the topic of supplements, I always say, look, their behaviors are the fundamental layer.
00:38:49.000 You have to do the right things for anything, for sleep, for learning, for sports performance, but then there's nutrition, supplementation, Prescription drugs and then off-label stuff, right?
00:39:00.000 And so we always think about when you hear hormones in sports, you always think just the raw conversation about anabolics, all the band stuff.
00:39:07.000 We can talk about that stuff and how it works.
00:39:08.000 Years ago, I used to work on androgens, testosterone and its derivatives and how it impacts brain development and body function, fear and also mental states.
00:39:17.000 But there's a category of supplements that are very interesting That for most people who aren't exploring testosterone augmentation for sport, work very well to increase testosterone by about 100 to 200 points.
00:39:30.000 Not, you know, 300, you know, not a tripling or anything like that.
00:39:33.000 And the main ones are two substances.
00:39:35.000 One is called Tongat Ali.
00:39:37.000 Oh, yeah.
00:39:37.000 That stuff's real, huh?
00:39:39.000 Oh, yeah.
00:39:39.000 Because what happens is the testosterone molecule...
00:39:43.000 It's basically carried in a cargo.
00:39:45.000 So it can be in its free form, unbound form, free testosterone.
00:39:48.000 And everyone says, oh, I want more free testosterone.
00:39:50.000 You want more, but these what are called sex hormone binding globulins.
00:39:54.000 So there's something called sex hormone binding globulin and albumin, They carry the testosterone molecule to the different tissues of the body.
00:40:02.000 So you don't want all your testosterone free.
00:40:04.000 You want some of it bound up so that it can be delivered to the different tissues, including your brain.
00:40:08.000 But if you have too much sex hormone binding globulin, the testosterone can't really do its things, okay?
00:40:15.000 So Tonga Ali, about 400 milligrams per day, has the effect of raising free testosterone and overall testosterone by about 100 to 200 points.
00:40:25.000 And so we're not talking about full TRT or blasting or now that I'm always amused on YouTube.
00:40:30.000 They now call it sports TRT. That's when you get above 200 milligrams per week.
00:40:34.000 Sports?
00:40:35.000 This is basically, you know, you've got TRT, which is typically about 200 milligrams per week.
00:40:40.000 And when you say 200 milligrams, when you're looking at a syringe, what is that?
00:40:44.000 Is that a thousand milligrams?
00:40:46.000 So the typical dose of testosterone replacement therapy is 200 milligrams given once every week to two weeks.
00:40:55.000 But when you look at a full syringe, what is that?
00:40:56.000 So for one cc, one mil, that's 200 milligrams, typically, of cipionate, which is sold on the state.
00:41:02.000 One cc?
00:41:02.000 A full cc?
00:41:03.000 One cc is not going to be that much.
00:41:06.000 So it depends.
00:41:07.000 If you have a little narrow syringe...
00:41:08.000 Right, but if you have a syringe that goes up to 10, what is that?
00:41:12.000 That's 10 cc's.
00:41:14.000 That's a lot.
00:41:14.000 That's 10 cc's.
00:41:15.000 Yeah, that's 1,000.
00:41:16.000 Okay, that makes sense.
00:41:17.000 So it would be two on that, and that's 200 milligrams.
00:41:20.000 That's right.
00:41:21.000 So, well, okay, so as long as we're going down this path- I thought you were saying like two full syringes.
00:41:25.000 Yeah.
00:41:26.000 I mean, I actually think that a lot of people who think they need TRT, when I hear about guys in their 20s and 30s, Look, I'm in my mid 40s and I can tell you that you can get and maintain very healthy testosterone levels without TRT if you do the right things, the behaviors, the nutrition,
00:41:41.000 all the other stuff early on.
00:41:43.000 There's sometimes people have hypogonadal syndromes and things like that.
00:41:45.000 There's a lot of issues with guys with head injuries.
00:41:47.000 And with head injuries.
00:41:49.000 And absolutely.
00:41:50.000 And it'd be an interesting conversation to talk about the role of testosterone in neural repair.
00:41:54.000 It's very interesting.
00:41:55.000 But when you look at TRT, I mean, the way that the clinics and the doctors typically do it is to give 200 milligrams and then send people out for two weeks and then they come back because they can charge them to come back repeatedly.
00:42:08.000 It's clear that without any TRT, the testes normally make anywhere from seven to 15 milligrams of testosterone per day.
00:42:15.000 So taking this massive dose and then waiting two weeks is absolutely foolish.
00:42:20.000 It's amazing to me that the medical profession does this because it doesn't match anything about the normal patterns of endocrinology.
00:42:26.000 It's just not how the body works.
00:42:28.000 The way it's been described to me to do it is to do it with an insulin syringe and to do a tiny amount every three days.
00:42:37.000 Right.
00:42:37.000 That's correct.
00:42:38.000 So 0.2 mil, so maybe 20 to 60 milligrams every few days, every third day or so.
00:42:46.000 That much more closely matches.
00:42:48.000 The normal pattern of release and avoids these estrogenic crashes.
00:42:52.000 And a lot of problems that are layered onto estrogen are actually problems with prolactin, which is a molecule that's involved in milk letdown and lactating women, but it actually shuts down the sexual desire and aggression.
00:43:06.000 This is interesting about prolactin.
00:43:08.000 So this happens in brooding birds and it happens in humans.
00:43:12.000 They've done this, a study published in the journal Nature, which is our kind of apex journal.
00:43:16.000 Showed that when the husbands of pregnant women, because of something, maybe a pheromone, maybe some odor of the pregnant woman, actually increases the man's prolactin when they're pregnant, puts body weight on the guy, starts laying down body fat, presumably to prepare The father for the long sleepless nights ahead because humans have always co-parented.
00:43:37.000 Wow.
00:43:38.000 I'm mostly co-parented.
00:43:39.000 We all know women do far more, but it's true.
00:43:42.000 Dudes out there who get fat don't feel bad.
00:43:44.000 Yeah.
00:43:44.000 That's what's going on.
00:43:45.000 The dad bod is in part due to an increase in prolactin.
00:43:49.000 Oh.
00:43:49.000 And testosterone and prolactin are kind of working in opposite fashion.
00:43:52.000 So it's a very interesting thing, but the way you describe it is correct.
00:43:56.000 Now, for people that aren't getting prescribed TRT but want the increase in testosterone, there are these plant compounds like Tonga Ali and another one which is very interesting.
00:44:04.000 It's a Nigerian shrub called Fadojia agrestis, And it mimics luteinizing hormone, which is the hormone that comes out of the hypothalamus that stimulates the testes if you got those and the ovaries if you've got those to make more testosterone or estrogen.
00:44:19.000 And so those two herbal supplements together can give a significant boost in free and active testosterone.
00:44:26.000 So you said Tonga Ali can give you 100 to 200?
00:44:29.000 Yeah, about that.
00:44:30.000 What does the other one give you?
00:44:31.000 Fadoja is usually taken at about 600 milligrams.
00:44:35.000 And that can mean the most dramatic effect I've ever seen was somebody who had his testosterone down in the low twos, or I think it was like low twos.
00:44:43.000 And he got it up to the 700 range, which but that's it.
00:44:46.000 But that's an outlier, right?
00:44:48.000 Most people are going to see about a three to 400 point increase.
00:44:50.000 And that's what the two of them synergistically working on?
00:44:53.000 Fidogia will actually make the testes grow.
00:44:55.000 It's a noticeable difference.
00:44:56.000 Everybody wants that.
00:44:58.000 Well, the reason I know about this stuff, people are probably thinking like, you know, Huberman's running gear out of the back of his cars.
00:45:04.000 And that's not what this is about, is that I do a certain amount of work with military and I do a certain amount of work with professional athletes who cannot take androgen compounds out of a syringe because they'll lose their job.
00:45:16.000 Right.
00:45:17.000 Or they've been doing that and they want to come off.
00:45:19.000 Although, and I'm not going to out the organization, but there is one major professional sports organization where, let's just say if somebody gets injured, they have permission to take up to 200 milligrams a week of testosterone.
00:45:30.000 Soccer.
00:45:31.000 No.
00:45:32.000 No?
00:45:32.000 Shit.
00:45:33.000 No.
00:45:33.000 But good guess.
00:45:35.000 You almost got me there.
00:45:37.000 Because I almost countered with the actual thing that it is.
00:45:39.000 Hockey?
00:45:40.000 No.
00:45:41.000 Although those guys have the head injuries.
00:45:44.000 So actually, the head injury thing is a serious problem, obviously.
00:45:48.000 So, testosterone has the effects we're all aware of, like deepening the voice, facial hair, muscle growth, recovery, etc.
00:45:55.000 Mostly because testosterone increases protein synthesis.
00:45:57.000 You look at a young male in puberty, it's a protein synthesis machine.
00:46:01.000 They eat, they eat, and they just grow and grow and grow, and they're putting on muscles and they're lean.
00:46:06.000 So most often they're lean, but in any case, testosterone has some very interesting effects on the brain.
00:46:14.000 The major mental effect of testosterone is it makes effort feel good.
00:46:20.000 Oh, that makes sense.
00:46:22.000 And the reason it does it is that the amygdala, this fear center in the brain, this anxiety center in the brain has androgen receptors.
00:46:29.000 It has testosterone receptors.
00:46:30.000 And so the way this works in animals and in humans as well is that for most species, the males of that species never get a chance to mate.
00:46:42.000 I'll probably pick an example where you'll know the exception because I know you know a lot about natural animals and animals that are hunted.
00:46:47.000 But if you think about animals with antlers, like rams, there's been a lot of research, believe it or not, on rams.
00:46:52.000 It'd be fun.
00:46:52.000 I'd love to work on rams.
00:46:53.000 You know, rams have enormous balls.
00:46:56.000 And they have to fight for the right to mate.
00:46:59.000 And the fighting is a choice, right?
00:47:02.000 And the decision to walk away is a choice usually.
00:47:04.000 They usually don't kill each other, although I know some of the injuries can lead to death.
00:47:08.000 So testosterone, these surges in testosterone that happens seasonally in certain species like rams or even these little hamsters, the males will rip each other's testicles off in order to fight for the right to mate.
00:47:20.000 So males of a given species have to actually overcome the fear of pain and punishment.
00:47:25.000 And the surge in testosterone is what causes the shift to the willingness to engage in battle.
00:47:32.000 And so when humans are taking low doses or reasonable doses of testosterone or they're increasing their testosterone or they're going through puberty, Effort and leaning into pain and challenge actually has the effect of making the body feel soothed and good.
00:47:47.000 It's a drive, just like sex is a drive or drinking water when you're thirsty is a drive.
00:47:51.000 This stuff is all anchored deep within the hypothalamus.
00:47:54.000 This isn't the cognitive thing.
00:47:56.000 That makes sense why young men in particular are really driven to hard exercise and sports that are very difficult that require extreme effort.
00:48:07.000 Completely makes sense.
00:48:08.000 Yeah.
00:48:08.000 And why when people are testosterone depleted, they feel depressed.
00:48:12.000 And when people have a surge of testosterone, they feel relief and anxiety, provided it's in the appropriate range.
00:48:18.000 My friend Steve Rinella has a podcast called Meat Eater and he had a squirrel expert on.
00:48:24.000 And they were talking about squirrels and squirrel estrus.
00:48:27.000 So when the female is in estrus, the males only have a small window.
00:48:33.000 They have like a six hour window and it doesn't happen very often.
00:48:37.000 And so when you see squirrels chasing each other around, screaming...
00:48:41.000 Going nutty.
00:48:41.000 That's generally what's going on.
00:48:43.000 And they throw each other out of trees.
00:48:45.000 It's like the last call at a bar.
00:48:46.000 It's a lot worse than that.
00:48:48.000 It's a last call at a barbarian compound.
00:48:50.000 Because when the male will be breeding with the female, another male will come along and pull him off and throw him off the tree.
00:48:58.000 So these squirrels will fall like 60, 70 feet and bounce off the ground and run right back up the tree.
00:49:05.000 They actually can survive falls.
00:49:08.000 That's amazing.
00:49:08.000 It's nuts.
00:49:09.000 But they were saying that, you know, these squirrels, they're only in estrus for a short amount of time.
00:49:13.000 So when the males recognize that she's ready to go, they just start chasing her and then all the other ones come around.
00:49:19.000 They start fighting.
00:49:20.000 Animal aggression is amazing.
00:49:22.000 I saw this nature show.
00:49:23.000 I forget which one of the Attenborough ones it was, but it was a lion that was getting attacked by these hyenas.
00:49:28.000 Oh, yeah.
00:49:28.000 And the hyenas know to go after the testicles and they know to go after the hindquarters.
00:49:32.000 They're just innately.
00:49:33.000 Maybe they learn it.
00:49:34.000 Like wolves.
00:49:35.000 Like wolves.
00:49:35.000 Wolves do that as well.
00:49:36.000 But what's interesting is another male lion comes along in this particular segment.
00:49:40.000 Normally these two male lions would fight, but this other male lion comes in and essentially saves the other one, runs off the hyenas.
00:49:46.000 And if you think about that behavior, it's incredible because this is an animal whose natural innate drive is to kill the other competition within his species, kill the other lion, and instead puts his own life on the line To try and rescue the other member of his species.
00:50:02.000 And lions don't sit around and think like, oh, I'm going to post this later on Instagram, or this is the right thing to do for my species.
00:50:08.000 It's a switch in the brain.
00:50:09.000 And those switches reside in the hypothalamus.
00:50:12.000 This kind of core area of our brain right above the roof of our mouth.
00:50:15.000 This is where all the fundamental drives are managed and regulated.
00:50:19.000 And there are chock-a-block full of testosterone receptors and estrogen receptors.
00:50:24.000 On the female side, it's also really interesting.
00:50:27.000 So in...
00:50:28.000 Species where there's pair bonding.
00:50:30.000 Humans are a really good example of that, but also other animal species where there's strong elements of pair bonding.
00:50:37.000 There is female-female competition.
00:50:39.000 Hmm.
00:50:41.000 Female animals of a given species start being nasty to one another in different ways.
00:50:45.000 Sometimes it's actual physical aggression.
00:50:47.000 Sometimes it's resource allocation.
00:50:49.000 They start blocking other females from getting access to the sires, the males that are desirable.
00:50:56.000 So they're playing this game around DNA. But they're not conscious of it, obviously.
00:51:01.000 And humans do this, too.
00:51:02.000 When, you know, female-female competition, when there's a male, desirable male in the equation, can be brutal.
00:51:09.000 I mean, you know, remember, I think there was this astronaut lady who, like, drove in diapers down to kill somebody Yeah, she was having an affair with this guy, and she...
00:51:20.000 It was either the guy's girlfriend or the guy's wife, but she drove for a full day to go to meet the lady, maest her, tried to get her to open up the door.
00:51:30.000 The girl wouldn't open up the door, she maest her, and she had worn a diaper so that she didn't have to stop to go to the bathroom, so she just...
00:51:37.000 Fucking nutty.
00:51:38.000 It's a nutty story.
00:51:39.000 It's crazy.
00:51:39.000 Yeah.
00:51:40.000 Yeah, it's really wild.
00:51:41.000 And you know, there are all sorts of interesting facts around how hormones regulate brain development.
00:51:45.000 One of the ones that always makes usually men kind of go wide-eyed is that during development, the testes give off testosterone, no surprise there.
00:51:56.000 But the actual masculinization of traits within the brain, and there are certain traits that anatomically you can see, The masculinization of the brain is not by testosterone.
00:52:07.000 It's by testosterone that's aromatized, converted into estrogen.
00:52:12.000 So estrogen is actually what masculinizes the male brain.
00:52:16.000 What?
00:52:17.000 Absolutely.
00:52:18.000 Wow.
00:52:21.000 And so going back to the sort of the TRT discussion and the testosterone discussion, these days there's a lot of discussion around, oh, you know, if your testosterone's too high, then, you know, it converts to estrogen and that creates these effects like, you know, gynecomastia, growth of the male breast tissue, reduction in libido,
00:52:37.000 all these things.
00:52:37.000 Most of those effects are not actually caused by estrogen.
00:52:40.000 This is a common misconception.
00:52:42.000 Those effects are created by excessive levels of prolactin.
00:52:45.000 And the more common medical practice now is to not include estrogen blockers when people are doing testosterone replacement.
00:52:53.000 No anastrozole, none of those things, because they actually have very bad effects on the vasculature of the brain.
00:52:59.000 Is that clomiphene as well?
00:53:00.000 I'm not familiar with clomiphene.
00:53:02.000 If it's an estrogen antagonist or an aromatase inhibitor, then...
00:53:07.000 You want estrogen.
00:53:08.000 You don't want a ton of it, but for longevity of the brain and health of the brain and for repair of the brain, you need ample levels of estrogen.
00:53:16.000 So prolactin is what's causing that growth of breast tissue.
00:53:20.000 Because I went down a rabbit hole the other day and I watched a bunch of YouTube videos of guys having their, what they call bitch tits, have them removed.
00:53:29.000 And gynecomastia is, it's a mass.
00:53:34.000 It looks like it's fluid.
00:53:36.000 And it's vascularized.
00:53:37.000 I've spent some time with cadavers.
00:53:39.000 I teach neuroanatomy and I, years ago we used to do, I would do the labs also, now I don't do the lab part.
00:53:44.000 You occasionally see this.
00:53:45.000 I have a colleague, he's a physician, he always says, you know, the male breast tissue, it's one of those things that it's there, it's just not very interesting.
00:53:52.000 It just happens to be there and it's very small.
00:53:55.000 But if there's a big increase in prolactin, then you will see that.
00:53:59.000 People who take opioids, Like with the opioid crisis or heroin users, the reason why they get breast development is because dopamine inhibits prolactin.
00:54:09.000 So dopamine and testosterone are close cousins.
00:54:12.000 And this will immediately be familiar to you or anyone else that has had that experience of really being in the zone and hard driving and you're getting wins.
00:54:20.000 And we know that testosterone goes up as you're succeeding.
00:54:24.000 We know this.
00:54:25.000 I mean, I didn't do the blood serum analysis, but you can bet that in the Poirier-McGregor fight, if you did blood draws before, I don't know whose testosterone would be higher, doesn't really matter.
00:54:34.000 But afterward, you're going to see a significant decrease in the loser.
00:54:39.000 And you're going to see a significant increase in the winner.
00:54:41.000 You see this in day traders, you see this in school teachers.
00:54:43.000 Day traders?
00:54:44.000 Yeah.
00:54:44.000 Because testosterone feeds back on the brain and releases more dopamine because the brain is trying to learn what was the behavior that led to the win.
00:54:52.000 Is this a similar thing that happens with women when women succeed?
00:54:57.000 Yeah, so women have some testosterone.
00:54:59.000 They mostly make it from their adrenal glands, these little glands that ride atop the kidneys and the lower back.
00:55:03.000 And at the core of the adrenals, they can release these androgens.
00:55:08.000 Occasionally, and just as a kind of a side note, occasionally a female child is born with a very enlarged clitoris.
00:55:16.000 Oftentimes you'll find a tumor on the adrenals in the pregnant mother.
00:55:21.000 It's not entirely uncommon.
00:55:22.000 There could be other reasons for that, but it's from elevated levels of androgens, testosterone.
00:55:26.000 And when females have a given species, You know, humans included.
00:55:31.000 When they have a win, they succeed, you know, get a degree or something good happens to them, whatever that is, they will release more dopamine and testosterone will go up a little bit.
00:55:39.000 And testosterone is responsible, a little increase in testosterone each month during the menstrual cycle is responsible for an increase in libido about 10 to 14 days before ovulation that kicks in right around ovulation for the purpose of trying to fertilize the egg.
00:55:55.000 Wow.
00:55:56.000 Can you measure the difference between the way a man's increases versus a woman's increases?
00:56:05.000 This gets into an interesting area because there aren't a lot of good studies on exactly what you're asking.
00:56:14.000 There's another androgen, another testosterone-related molecule, which is called DHT, dihydrotestosterone.
00:56:20.000 That's what causes you to go bald.
00:56:21.000 It's what causes you to grow bald and it's what causes beard growth.
00:56:24.000 It has an inverse effect on the hair follicles of the face and on the hair follicles on the head.
00:56:28.000 And how many DHT receptors you have is very strongly genetically determined.
00:56:34.000 You go to some areas of the world, like Chile, and the men are all bald with like serious beards, legit beards, not like mine, like which is an attempt at a beard, right?
00:56:42.000 They have real beards or in Afghanistan, serious beards, that's genetic, okay?
00:56:47.000 So DHT has 600 times the affinity for the testosterone receptor than actual testosterone.
00:56:56.000 And nandrolone, deca, that the bodybuilders take to give that really hard look and the females in particular, female bodybuilders like, that gives that really hard kind of crisp grainy look.
00:57:08.000 Deca has, it's basically It's anabolic, but it's not androgenic.
00:57:13.000 It causes a lot of the muscle growth, the muscle repair without creating the deepening of the voice.
00:57:17.000 Actually, an Olympic runner was eliminated, sadly, because she was a phenomenal runner for, you know, urinalysis that was positive for DECA recently.
00:57:28.000 She blamed it on a pork burrito that she ate from a taco truck or something a couple nights before.
00:57:32.000 And my mind on this is, I hope she did Decca, only because if she lost her career from a pork burrito, that's tragic.
00:57:41.000 But if she took Decca and lost her career, well then, you know...
00:57:45.000 The odds are she took Decca, right?
00:57:48.000 It would be very unusual for a meat to maintain that, especially if the meat was cooked.
00:57:55.000 So no one asked me, but a few people reached out, and I have some relationship to some Olympic committees, not the ones that drug test, but Olympic teams, I should say, to be specific.
00:58:05.000 If that pork was cooked, the deck is destroyed.
00:58:09.000 And you can't really eat pork that's not cooked.
00:58:12.000 Yeah, it just seems very unlikely.
00:58:14.000 Yeah.
00:58:15.000 It seems extremely unlikely.
00:58:16.000 Didn't Canelo Alvarez use that as an excuse for why he had testosterone, some sort of steroid in the system?
00:58:22.000 So he, as you can tell, I'm fascinated by this topic.
00:58:25.000 I'm fascinated by the relationship between hormones, bodily changes, but also brain changes.
00:58:31.000 He, I believe, got popped for clenbuterol.
00:58:34.000 Yes.
00:58:35.000 Which is a beta-3 agonist.
00:58:36.000 So you've got receptors on your heart and on your blood vessels that dilate or constrict them.
00:58:41.000 And there's a drug, Climbuterol, that creates a lot of increase in core body temperature, helps you burn fat, but it also has this effect of maintaining muscle.
00:58:52.000 So it's not really a steroid, it's not working on hormones, it's working on the so-called autonomic nervous system, heating and cooling of the body.
00:58:58.000 And this is, I believe, because he cuts a lot of weight.
00:59:02.000 I don't know that.
00:59:03.000 Yeah, because when guys cut weight, one of the things that happens during these, I mean, it's not just starvation, but it's also massive dehydration, and you have a lot of decreased bodily function that's directly related to that.
00:59:18.000 Yeah, the kidneys don't like dehydration.
00:59:21.000 No, it's terrible.
00:59:21.000 And salt balance is so key.
00:59:23.000 I mean, gosh, I always say this, people who think they have low blood sugar, please try putting a little bit of salt in a glass of water and drinking it first.
00:59:31.000 My sister used to think she had labile blood sugar, would like pass out, all this stuff.
00:59:35.000 She's a bit of a hypochondriac anyway.
00:59:37.000 But anyway, there's a genetic thing there.
00:59:41.000 I said, look, just consume a small teaspoon of salt in your water.
00:59:45.000 Completely transformed everything.
00:59:46.000 And especially if you're on a low carbohydrate diet, you're gonna be excreting sodium.
00:59:51.000 Neurons require sodium to generate what's called the action potential, the firing of neurons.
00:59:55.000 So if you're doing keto and trying to lose weight, drink a glass of water with a little salt in it.
01:00:00.000 And if you're drinking distilled water.
01:00:01.000 You're pissing out all your electrolytes.
01:00:03.000 That's why fighters do that.
01:00:05.000 You're getting dizzy.
01:00:05.000 They don't do that anymore, by the way.
01:00:08.000 They're getting educated.
01:00:09.000 Fighters used to drink a lot of distilled water, but there were some disastrous weight cuts.
01:00:14.000 One in Brazil that I'm aware of where a guy died.
01:00:17.000 Yeah, I think some bodybuilders died from clenbuterol.
01:00:20.000 So could he have gotten clenbuterol from bad meat?
01:00:25.000 Very unlikely.
01:00:25.000 If you think about the cattle industry and what they want to do, they want to make bigger, heavier cows, but they don't want to make big, heavy, super lean cows.
01:00:33.000 They want marbling in there and all that stuff.
01:00:36.000 Again, I didn't look at the blood analysis.
01:00:39.000 If he got popped for clembuterol and he didn't take it, that's tragic.
01:00:42.000 If he got popped for clembuterol and he did take it, it doesn't seem to be harming his career anyway.
01:00:49.000 I don't know what he's doing, but I do know that he is...
01:00:55.000 He's one of those guys that's maintained his power as he's gone up in weight, which is really rare.
01:01:01.000 It's rare that you can knock a guy out at 175 pounds who used to be a world champion when you were a 154 pound champion.
01:01:08.000 It's very rare.
01:01:09.000 It doesn't mean it's unheard of.
01:01:10.000 Some guys just carry that kind of punching power.
01:01:12.000 Manny Pacquiao won world titles in eight different weight classes, which is insanity.
01:01:19.000 It's insanity.
01:01:19.000 But there's also always been talk of him being elevated.
01:01:25.000 Well, they have great knowledge of these plant compounds and how they affect the hormone system overseas.
01:01:31.000 You know, over here we are, you know, I'm a serious patriot, so it hurts me to say this, but we are miles behind what other countries are doing in terms of hormone augmentation and sports performance.
01:01:43.000 In the realm of hormones, but also temperature modulation, there are incredible plant compounds out there.
01:01:49.000 Like there's this thing that's now kind of going wild on the internet.
01:01:53.000 I've never tried it, but it's called Turkesterone.
01:01:56.000 Turkesterone.
01:01:56.000 Yeah, they call it Turk.
01:01:57.000 And this is basically, and I actually reviewed, I did one episode of my podcast all about hormones, and I went deep into this literature, and Turkesterone, side by side with Deca or another testosterone derivative, it essentially acts the same way.
01:02:11.000 It increases testosterone and performance and recovery.
01:02:13.000 How much does it increase it by?
01:02:16.000 Equivalent.
01:02:17.000 Really?
01:02:17.000 So this plant compound is equivalent to Deka?
01:02:21.000 Essentially.
01:02:22.000 Wow.
01:02:22.000 Where do you get this stuff?
01:02:24.000 People buy it on the internet.
01:02:25.000 How do you spell it?
01:02:28.000 Turkesterone.
01:02:29.000 T-U-R-K-E-Sterone.
01:02:32.000 And I want to be clear, I'm not recommending people cowboy their endocrinology.
01:02:36.000 Too late.
01:02:39.000 Turkesterone on Amazon.
01:02:40.000 That's probably not real.
01:02:42.000 It's not?
01:02:43.000 No, because...
01:02:44.000 See, this is the problem.
01:02:45.000 If you're not getting a prescription from a doctor, how do you know what you're getting?
01:02:49.000 Oh, so the stuff that they're selling on Amazon is fake?
01:02:53.000 Yeah, so this actually...
01:02:56.000 I thought it came from Turkey and that's why.
01:02:57.000 So these ectosterones, where it says ectosterone, ectosterones are actually known to, they are insect hormones.
01:03:06.000 That doesn't mean people are ingesting insects, but in insects, they have hormone systems that are similar to ours, but different, and they get their hormones often from plants.
01:03:15.000 You might appreciate this one.
01:03:17.000 There's a very interesting relationship between the marijuana plant and estrogen and testosterone.
01:03:22.000 And I want to say this is a very controversial area.
01:03:25.000 And when I say this, a lot of pot smokers get upset.
01:03:28.000 For some people, not all, marijuana and certain components of the plant, including the seeds, do you remember that rumor way back when, when I was in college, they'd say, you know, the seeds will make you sterile?
01:03:38.000 Turns out that certain elements of the marijuana plant increase aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen.
01:03:46.000 And in talking to some of my colleagues who are plant biologists, they said, yeah, I'm not surprised at all.
01:03:50.000 There's an active component of plant to animal warfare where in order to control the populations of animals that eat a plant, a plant will make certain hormones that will sterilize the males of that species.
01:04:04.000 So I'm not saying smoking pot will make you sterile.
01:04:07.000 There's one study that shows that it increases testosterone and several studies that show that it decreases it.
01:04:12.000 So the literature all over the place.
01:04:14.000 And this is consumed in what way?
01:04:17.000 Edible or smoking?
01:04:18.000 They had people smoke marijuana in the two out of the three studies.
01:04:22.000 The other one, it was edible.
01:04:24.000 But I have to say, the studies that I was able to find are not what we call published in blue ribbon journals.
01:04:30.000 They're okay.
01:04:31.000 But it is interesting.
01:04:32.000 So some people who will smoke pot during puberty will get the gynecomastia, the growth of the male breast tissue.
01:04:37.000 Really?
01:04:38.000 And that means that they probably have a genetic predisposition towards high levels of aromatase.
01:04:43.000 So it's all over the place.
01:04:44.000 Just like some people do real well on the carnivore diet, other people do well on a vegan diet, and some people like me are omnivores and we're happy that way.
01:04:51.000 There are going to be people that just don't do well hormonally on marijuana, and there are going to be other people that do.
01:05:00.000 It's highly individual.
01:05:02.000 It is highly individual and it's so interesting when it comes to whether it's diet or when it comes to consuming something controversial like marijuana that everybody wants this one size fits all approach and it's not realistic.
01:05:17.000 It's not realistic.
01:05:18.000 For diet, it's not realistic.
01:05:19.000 It's not realistic for exercise.
01:05:20.000 It's not realistic for anything.
01:05:21.000 Yeah.
01:05:22.000 You have to try certain things.
01:05:23.000 Like for me, I know that fasting in the early part of the day, I'm more focused and I'm a little bit high strong early in the day.
01:05:30.000 And so I train then and then I dig into work and then I eat low carb throughout the day.
01:05:34.000 So I'm effectively low carbohydrate because when you're low carbohydrate, because carbohydrates trigger the release of serotonin, they have a calming effect.
01:05:41.000 We know this.
01:05:42.000 You have a big plate of pasta, it kind of mellows you out.
01:05:44.000 It soothes you.
01:05:45.000 It blunts cortisol.
01:05:48.000 Whereas if you don't eat carbohydrates, you tend to have a little bit of adrenaline in your system and it's go, go, go, go, go.
01:05:53.000 And then in the evening I eat pasta and rice and less protein so that I can get to sleep easily.
01:05:58.000 And I repack all the glycogen that I burned throughout the day, training and doing a bunch of things like that.
01:06:02.000 So this idea that you have to be low carb Every day, all day, or you have to be high-carb.
01:06:07.000 That's crazy.
01:06:08.000 I mean, I think, I do know people who've done well on the carnivore diet.
01:06:11.000 I only learned about it through your podcast and through, I forget his name, the guy with- Paul Saladino?
01:06:17.000 Which is weird because he has salad in his name.
01:06:20.000 Someone pointed that out to me.
01:06:21.000 I was like, you're right.
01:06:22.000 That's so true.
01:06:22.000 That's right.
01:06:23.000 Well, he used to be a vegan.
01:06:24.000 Oh, yeah?
01:06:25.000 Yeah.
01:06:25.000 So that always is reassuring to me when someone's done it both ways.
01:06:28.000 Yeah.
01:06:29.000 But, you know, Rich Roll, I know Rich well, and, you know, he thrives on a vegan diet.
01:06:33.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:06:34.000 And, you know, and guys got, you know, calves this big and he's, you know, runs like a machine.
01:06:39.000 He runs the ultra marathons.
01:06:40.000 And he's a strong, you know, he functions well.
01:06:43.000 Yes.
01:06:44.000 So I do think that people should try it.
01:06:46.000 They should be scientists for themselves.
01:06:48.000 They should just be a scientist, run the control experiment, be a vegan for a month, be a carnivore for a month, try it.
01:06:54.000 When I eat any kind of high-carbohydrate meal, I crash.
01:06:59.000 I just want to go to sleep.
01:07:01.000 And that's great if it's late in the day and you want to go to sleep.
01:07:03.000 It's terrible if it's lunch and you've got to do a three-hour podcast four times a week.
01:07:07.000 If I have sushi, like a lot of sushi with a lot of rice, I just want to nod off.
01:07:16.000 Immediately, my eyes get heavy and I start talking slowly.
01:07:21.000 Yeah, it's a sedative.
01:07:22.000 Yeah.
01:07:23.000 But most days, if you're not doing that, do you sleep okay?
01:07:26.000 Could you transition to sleep?
01:07:27.000 I sleep pretty good.
01:07:28.000 Yeah.
01:07:29.000 I sleep like a brick.
01:07:30.000 But I'm always so tired.
01:07:32.000 By the end of the day, I'm so exhausted.
01:07:33.000 I shove so much shit into my day.
01:07:36.000 What time are you up?
01:07:37.000 Are you up early?
01:07:38.000 Seven.
01:07:38.000 Yeah, that's right.
01:07:39.000 Yeah.
01:07:39.000 And I'm almost, like, every day there's some kind of heavy exercise going on, pretty much, except for Sundays.
01:07:46.000 And sometimes Saturdays I take off too, but unless there's something crazy going on where I can't work out during the day on a weekday, most weekdays there's a pretty brutal workout session in there.
01:07:58.000 And so by the time the end of the day comes with podcasts, then I'm doing stand-up at night a lot of these nights, I'm tired.
01:08:05.000 So I can crash.
01:08:07.000 That's probably because you're training early in the day.
01:08:10.000 First thing, always.
01:08:11.000 So one of the reasons you wake up is this increase in body temperature.
01:08:15.000 And that's going to increase throughout the day.
01:08:16.000 And once your temperature starts dropping in the late afternoon evening, you're headed for sleep.
01:08:20.000 I wanted to ask you about this.
01:08:22.000 There's quite a few of these companies now that are doing...
01:08:25.000 I had one for a while.
01:08:27.000 I forget the one that I had.
01:08:28.000 It was one of our sponsors, Jamie.
01:08:30.000 There was a cooling pad that puts over the bed.
01:08:33.000 But Jamie uses one called...
01:08:35.000 What is it?
01:08:35.000 Eight something?
01:08:36.000 Eight Sleep.
01:08:37.000 Eight Sleep?
01:08:37.000 Oh, yeah.
01:08:37.000 Lex is big into Eight Sleep.
01:08:39.000 Do you use any of those?
01:08:40.000 Like...
01:08:41.000 I don't, but, so there's a really interesting thing around temperature.
01:08:45.000 We hear so much about light, hormones, nutrition.
01:08:47.000 To me, temperature is the untapped power tool.
01:08:52.000 It's just amazing what you can do with temperature.
01:08:55.000 So when you wake up in the morning, your temperature is increasing.
01:08:59.000 If you exercise early in the day, your temperature will undergo a further increase.
01:09:03.000 And then what you effectively do by exercising early in the day, especially viewing light and exercising early in the day, is you time the onset of that melatonin pulse to come on 16 hours later, which is going to put you to sleep.
01:09:16.000 But in order to get into sleep and stay asleep, your temperature's got to drop.
01:09:21.000 And that starts for most people around 4 or 5 o'clock in the afternoon, although it depends on when you're waking up.
01:09:26.000 As that temperature drops, it's going to be much easier to get into sleep.
01:09:29.000 So there are a couple ways to accelerate that transition.
01:09:31.000 One is to get into a sauna, which sounds counterproductive, or take a hot bath or a hot shower.
01:09:36.000 But when you do that, the body actively cools.
01:09:39.000 And when you get out, your body is dumping heat like crazy.
01:09:42.000 And then you have that kind of almost coma-like feel where you get into sleep.
01:09:46.000 That's interesting because that's something I also do.
01:09:47.000 I get into sauna almost every night.
01:09:50.000 Oh, that's magic.
01:09:51.000 Yeah, before I go to bed.
01:09:52.000 Well, there you also get something really powerful.
01:09:54.000 I know Rhonda Patrick has talked a lot about this and knows more about this than I do, but in researching some of the literature, if you do 20 minutes of sauna or so in the evening and you crank it up, you're getting up to the 200, 210 zone or 190 to 210. And that has this huge effect on growth hormone release,
01:10:11.000 16-fold increase in growth hormone release.
01:10:14.000 If you do it regularly, you kind of adapt to it.
01:10:16.000 And you might say, well, how does that work?
01:10:18.000 Well, temperature.
01:10:19.000 One of the ways to coordinate the systems of the body is by changing core body temperature.
01:10:24.000 And it sounds so obvious when you hear it, but we don't often think about that.
01:10:28.000 So when you wake up early in the day and you view sunlight, you're creating an increase in body temperature by the signals that go through the eye to the hypothalamus and to the systems of the body.
01:10:36.000 And then that exercise in the day also sets you up for a lot of energy during the day and then a kind of a crash into sleep later that night.
01:10:43.000 The other thing is they say to keep the room cool at night while you're sleeping, or if you need it, one of these eight sleep things, or chili pad, I think is the other one.
01:10:51.000 I don't have any relationship to either one.
01:10:53.000 I asked my colleague, Craig Heller at Stanford, who's a world expert in thermal regulation, temperature regulation.
01:10:59.000 I said, why keep the room cold?
01:11:02.000 And he said, well, that's interesting because it turns out that most of your heat dumping occurs through three locations on your body.
01:11:09.000 It's called a glabrous skin.
01:11:10.000 It's very interesting.
01:11:11.000 It's the hairless skin, which is on the upper part of the face, the palms of the hands and the bottoms of your feet.
01:11:18.000 Now you can dump heat through those, they're like portals where you dump heat and you actually can pass cool and heat into the body too, but this is a separate conversation.
01:11:26.000 So you're asleep in the middle of the night and if you start heating up, what you'll notice is you start putting a foot out or a handout and what you're doing is you're dumping heat in order to stay asleep.
01:11:36.000 You just do this subconsciously.
01:11:37.000 Whereas if the room is too hot, What are you going to do?
01:11:40.000 You're going to put your hand in an ice bucket?
01:11:41.000 You'd need to have some cooling device in the room.
01:11:44.000 So this is why it's good to drop the temperature in the room at night.
01:11:47.000 And these surfaces are super interesting.
01:11:50.000 They have what are called AVAs, arteriovenous astimoses.
01:11:55.000 It's a fascinating aspect of how we're built and how animals are built.
01:11:59.000 Normally blood goes from the heart through arteries, then goes through the little capillaries, which are like the little fine ones and then to veins and then back to the heart.
01:12:06.000 There's some exceptions that that's basically how it works.
01:12:09.000 In the palms of our hands, in the bottoms of our feet, and in our upper face, it goes direct from arteries to veins, these AVAs.
01:12:17.000 And animals and humans where there's, it's because there's no hair follicles there.
01:12:21.000 Even if you're not really hairy, you have hair, little tiny hair follicles everywhere except these three locations.
01:12:27.000 And we dump heat very readily from the body through them.
01:12:31.000 And so this is why I was going to say, you know, in the hot months, it's actually really hot here in Texas.
01:12:35.000 If you're overheating, people will put like a cold ice bucket or a blanket or something around their neck.
01:12:40.000 It's terrible.
01:12:41.000 It cools the blood going to the brain.
01:12:44.000 The brain thinks that you're cooling off and the hypothalamus starts to heat up the body.
01:12:48.000 This is how people cook their organs.
01:12:50.000 The best way, and they do this now with firefighters, have done some work and we're starting to do some work, Craig and I, with military and with the UFC guys, with Duncan French, we've got something planned here.
01:12:59.000 It's spinning up now.
01:13:00.000 You want to get the palms or the bottoms of the feet into cool water.
01:13:04.000 And that has the effect of cooling off the core of the body much, much faster.
01:13:09.000 And this has profound effects on athletic performance and job performance.
01:13:13.000 We always think about the athlete stuff, but there are a lot of guys working construction sites, they're out in the desert, you know, sitting around like shooting bad guys and doing all sorts of stuff.
01:13:21.000 And hyperthermia is dreadful.
01:13:23.000 So you can cool the body by effectively taking something like this.
01:13:28.000 There's a device that Craig has, there's this company called Cool Mitt.
01:13:32.000 It's only available now to athletes and to military, but it should be available to consumers soon, where you can cool the core of the body simply by holding Something of the appropriate cold temperature.
01:13:44.000 Now, if it's too cold, it'll constrict the vessels and it just shuts down the system.
01:13:48.000 Not good.
01:13:49.000 So this is amazing.
01:13:50.000 They've done some experiments in Craig's lab with the guys from the 49ers who could come in, they give them 10 sets of dips.
01:13:56.000 This is wild, but it's published peer-reviewed data, 10 sets of dips.
01:13:59.000 One of their athletes, I forget, because he's a pro athlete, did 40 dips on the first set, and then it kind of drops 10, 10, with three minutes rest in between.
01:14:06.000 Comes back in a few days, and now they have him in between sets for three minutes.
01:14:11.000 I think it was three, maybe two minutes.
01:14:12.000 Hold on to the appropriate temperature cooling device.
01:14:16.000 Now he punches out six-fold more dips.
01:14:21.000 He can just go set after set after set.
01:14:23.000 He's increasing volume and repetitions.
01:14:25.000 So he's not getting stronger, he can do more.
01:14:28.000 I know it's crazy, but the way it works is very well understood.
01:14:32.000 Do you have, when your muscle works, like let's say you're doing curls on, yeah.
01:14:36.000 This is cool, man.
01:14:37.000 So this is at work in a lot of Special Forces guys, 49ers.
01:14:42.000 We're watching a video for the folks that are just listening.
01:14:44.000 And it also, okay.
01:14:47.000 That's it?
01:14:48.000 So it's on his knee?
01:14:49.000 Well, he's got his hand in it.
01:14:51.000 Oh, I'm sorry.
01:14:52.000 His hand's in there.
01:14:53.000 On a cold pad.
01:14:54.000 And it's only one hand.
01:14:55.000 It's only one hand because you're passing, you can't really pass cool into the body, but you're cooling off the heat of the body.
01:15:01.000 And we don't often think about the relationship between heat and performance, but it's very straightforward.
01:15:08.000 So when you, let's say you're doing a set of curls, curls always seem to be the example, but you're doing a set of curls, the bicep is heating up and eventually you hit failure.
01:15:17.000 The reason you hit failure is not because you don't have the strength to do it.
01:15:21.000 You just did a rep with that.
01:15:22.000 It's because muscle contraction is dependent on an enzyme called pyruvate kinase.
01:15:28.000 And as the muscle heats up, pyruvate kinase can't work and you can't convert energy into ATP in the muscle.
01:15:33.000 That's failure.
01:15:35.000 Is the heating of the actual muscle tissue.
01:15:37.000 So when you cool the body at its core, pyruvate kinase can continue to convert ATP into energy and the muscle keeps contracting.
01:15:45.000 And they've done this with endurance also.
01:15:47.000 It's a really interesting area.
01:15:50.000 And this literature actually goes back about 10 years, but no one had ever devised this.
01:15:54.000 So they could do this to fighters in between rounds?
01:15:56.000 So what we're planning with UFC is we're going to get, so there is to have people cool between rounds properly, not by putting ice on the back of the neck, which just feels good or by dampening the, but by actually cooling the core of the body.
01:16:09.000 And we think this is going to have important effects, not the hypothesis is it will have important effects, not just for performance, but also a lot of the brain injury that occurs, you know, part of it is the head hit, but part of it is the hyperthermia, the dehydration.
01:16:24.000 You know, if you look at the history of fights where guys died in boxing, when they went from 15 rounds to 12, fewer people were dying.
01:16:31.000 And it could be more head hits, but the idea that we're going to test Duncan and the folks out at the UFC and the folks at Stanford is that we know it improves performance, but that it will also help with recovery and hopefully that it'll help with some of the brain injury issues.
01:16:45.000 I think one of the things that happens with boxers in particular, with deaths, is most of them, like the vast majority in the lighter weight classes, which indicates that these guys are, again, they're dehydrating themselves, they're cutting weight, which is...
01:17:01.000 One thing that I've been really vocal about that I've tried to get people to listen to, but right now it falls on deaf ears, except for fans and athletes who agree, is to cut weight cutting out.
01:17:10.000 And I think there's got to be a way to do it.
01:17:12.000 My position is that it's legalized cheating.
01:17:14.000 I think when you look at what weight cutting is, weight cutting is essentially you're pretending you're lighter than you are.
01:17:21.000 And then they usually eat afterwards, right?
01:17:23.000 They're coming back up.
01:17:24.000 Oh, way up.
01:17:26.000 How long between the weigh-in and the actual walking in?
01:17:29.000 More than 24 hours.
01:17:30.000 It used to be around 24 hours.
01:17:32.000 They used to have to weigh in at 4 p.m.
01:17:36.000 in the afternoon or whenever it was, depending upon the local commission.
01:17:42.000 And then they would fight the next day.
01:17:44.000 The fights would start somewhere roughly in that same range.
01:17:48.000 Now they start early in the morning.
01:17:50.000 And what we do is what's called a ceremonial weigh-in.
01:17:52.000 So I'll host the weigh-in, but they've already weighed in.
01:17:55.000 So I say when they step on the scale, it's kind of stupid, really.
01:18:00.000 They're on a scale for no reason.
01:18:03.000 We already know what they weigh.
01:18:04.000 It's kind of some weird fucking game we're playing.
01:18:07.000 People like to see the weigh-in.
01:18:09.000 I guess, but you say official weight.
01:18:12.000 So now I say, you know, Jamie Vernon, official weight, 190 pounds, and Jamie flexes, and then he gets off the scale.
01:18:20.000 So the thing is, that person is probably, when they get on that scale for the official weigh-in, anywhere in the range of 10 pounds heavier.
01:18:31.000 And then as the day goes on, they'll continue to slowly rehydrate.
01:18:35.000 They have it down to a science.
01:18:36.000 You know, there's people that are very, very good at it.
01:18:39.000 And they know exactly how to dehydrate these athletes and to get them to this...
01:18:46.000 Literally, death door.
01:18:47.000 I mean, you see guys shuffling to the scale.
01:18:50.000 Neurons need salt.
01:18:51.000 Sometimes black out.
01:18:52.000 Yeah, neurons need salt, potassium and magnesium, the electrolytes, to fire.
01:18:56.000 You take away those, you piss out more water, but you also, the brain's ability of function goes off.
01:19:01.000 Imagine you're doing this 24 hours before you engage in a cage fight.
01:19:05.000 It's the dumbest fucking thing we do.
01:19:08.000 It is literally the dumbest thing we do in the sport.
01:19:10.000 And I would love it if they instituted some sort of a radical change where they...
01:19:17.000 There's a company called One FC. I don't know how they do it.
01:19:21.000 They're out of Singapore and they have some sort of a hydration test that they use on athletes.
01:19:26.000 I know they also have this in wrestling.
01:19:28.000 They have hydration tests that they use, particularly, I believe, in high school and college wrestling.
01:19:32.000 They want to make sure that these guys aren't, because in those days, they're making weight the day of the event.
01:19:39.000 At least the UFC athletes have ample time to rehydrate, but it's still, it's a ridiculous stressor on the body to make someone dehydrate to the tone of, so for some guys, it's 30 pounds.
01:19:50.000 That's crazy.
01:19:51.000 Well, what I don't understand is it seems like You know, one of the reasons athletes take steroids is because they want to break records and crowds love it when athletes break records.
01:19:58.000 No one wants to see everyone run progressively slower in the Olympics every year.
01:20:03.000 So, you know, now you don't let them take anabolics just ad libitum because otherwise that would just be a mess.
01:20:09.000 Although they do it anyway, let's be honest.
01:20:11.000 There are so many ways around these tests.
01:20:14.000 In terms of dehydration and weight cutting, you would think in the UFC that the fans would love it because they would see better performances.
01:20:20.000 I think you would see better performances.
01:20:22.000 I think you'd see longer careers because there's some guys that...
01:20:26.000 I think there's quite a few issues.
01:20:29.000 And some of them are just related to the organization itself.
01:20:32.000 I believe we need more weight classes.
01:20:34.000 There's not enough weight classes and there's large gaps in between these weight classes which encourages this dehydration.
01:20:41.000 Especially when you get to the heavier weight classes.
01:20:43.000 There's a gap between middleweight and light heavyweight.
01:20:45.000 It's 20 pounds.
01:20:47.000 That's an enormous gap.
01:20:48.000 85 and 205. It's just enormous.
01:20:51.000 And if you're a guy who's walking around at 195 or whatever and you decide to fight at 85 pounds, you're cutting 10 pounds, you might have a guy who's 215 pounds and decides to get down to 85 pounds.
01:21:05.000 Wow.
01:21:05.000 And when he gets down to 185, what he's going to do is try to grab ahold of you.
01:21:10.000 A lot of these guys, or they'll have more punching power, or they take a shot better because they're just larger human beings.
01:21:17.000 And again, there's bad weight cuts where it doesn't work out well, and the guys have poor performances, and they blame it on a bad weight cut, and it's true.
01:21:24.000 I would like all that to be factored out, and I think it's 100% possible.
01:21:30.000 And I've spoken to the UFC about it multiple times, but I'm like, alright, no one's listening to me.
01:21:35.000 It's like, it should be too big of a change.
01:21:38.000 But I think it would be very important for the health of the athletes, the longevity of the athletes, and then also the integrity of the sport.
01:21:48.000 You're pretending, like, I'll give you an example.
01:21:52.000 Like...
01:21:54.000 Take a guy like Kamaru Usman.
01:21:56.000 He's the UFC welterweight champion.
01:21:58.000 One of the best to ever do it.
01:22:00.000 He weighs in at 170 for about...
01:22:04.000 Fucking an hour he's 170, if he's that.
01:22:07.000 And then he gets up to around 200 pounds.
01:22:10.000 He's fucking big.
01:22:11.000 You stand next to him.
01:22:12.000 That's a 30-pound dumbbell.
01:22:13.000 You stand next to him and you go, how is that guy 170?
01:22:16.000 Well, he's not.
01:22:17.000 He's 170 at the weigh-ins.
01:22:19.000 And he's not even the most egregious.
01:22:20.000 There's been guys that have cut way more weight than that.
01:22:23.000 Maybe I'm wrong.
01:22:24.000 Maybe on fight day he's 190. Maybe.
01:22:27.000 But he's a big guy.
01:22:29.000 There's no way he's 170. He's not even close to 170. And he's the 170-pound champion.
01:22:34.000 And this is not a knock on him, because I'm a giant fan of him, because everybody does it.
01:22:38.000 You go down to 155, the champion, Charles Oliveira, used to fight at 145. And he was killing himself to make 145, and he kept losing.
01:22:48.000 It just wasn't sustainable.
01:22:50.000 And you could see he missed weight a couple of times, and then he goes up to 155, and then he becomes the champion.
01:22:56.000 But even then, he's really not 155, he's probably 170. You know, he's probably walking around at 170 and then he dehydrates himself down to 55 and then weighs in and then rehydrates himself up again.
01:23:09.000 It's just bad for you.
01:23:10.000 It's just bad for you and it's a terrible thing to do a day before you're about to do the most difficult thing in all of sports.
01:23:17.000 Yeah, where your life is essentially at risk.
01:23:20.000 Yeah, that's the big difference between these fighting sports and other sports.
01:23:22.000 Like if someone misses an Olympic lift, sure, they can get hurt, but someone else isn't trying to put them to sleep.
01:23:27.000 Exactly.
01:23:27.000 Someone is trying to get you.
01:23:29.000 And so because someone's trying to get you, you want to get every advantage you possibly can.
01:23:33.000 And a lot of these guys, they just want to be as big as they can be.
01:23:36.000 And that's...
01:23:38.000 Totally understandable, but it should be illegal.
01:23:41.000 And the only way to really make it so that it makes any sense is you've got to give these guys more options in terms of weight classes to compete at.
01:23:49.000 I think at the bare minimum, there should be a weight class every 10 pounds.
01:23:52.000 And in boxing, it's a lot more than that.
01:23:55.000 In boxing, you have 147, which is welterweight, but then you have junior middleweight, which is 154. That's nothing.
01:24:01.000 That's 7 pounds.
01:24:03.000 That's nothing.
01:24:04.000 And then you have 6 pounds more than that is middleweight.
01:24:06.000 That's nothing.
01:24:07.000 Yeah, it's one pork burrito.
01:24:08.000 Exactly.
01:24:09.000 With or without.
01:24:09.000 And then eight pounds over that is super middleweight.
01:24:12.000 And then seven pounds over that is light heavyweight.
01:24:16.000 175 is light heavyweight.
01:24:18.000 So it's like boxing has a better system, in my opinion.
01:24:21.000 I think there's more weight classes.
01:24:24.000 And I think it's more exciting.
01:24:27.000 I think one thing that people have a problem with is there's too many champions in boxing.
01:24:31.000 But that's because there's four massive...
01:24:34.000 Governing bodies that are the organ you have the WBC WBA all these belts.
01:24:39.000 Yeah, totally confused.
01:24:40.000 There's too many belts That's why when you get a rare the very very rare undisputed champion of the world You know where the guy owns all the weight classes.
01:24:49.000 It's so rare and box the last person to have that good question Somebody probably has it today.
01:24:54.000 I don't know.
01:24:55.000 I think Tyson Fury had the opportunity if he fought Anthony Joshua or, you know, either one.
01:25:01.000 Those guys are so big.
01:25:02.000 I'll tell you, when I saw the heavyweight fights the other night, this UFC fight, this Australian guy.
01:25:06.000 Yeah.
01:25:06.000 Australians that want to fight just scare me anyway.
01:25:08.000 I've been to Australia.
01:25:09.000 People fight for fun in Australia.
01:25:10.000 Well, he's the most scary because he drinks out of people's shoes.
01:25:13.000 Oh, yeah.
01:25:13.000 What was that?
01:25:14.000 He drinks beer out of people.
01:25:15.000 He calls it a shooey.
01:25:16.000 They all call, I guess they call it, maybe it's a rugby thing or something.
01:25:18.000 Who's shoe is that?
01:25:19.000 Just some random?
01:25:19.000 Random dudes.
01:25:20.000 Random dudes would give him a shoe and he'll pour a beer in it and drink the beer.
01:25:23.000 I love Australians.
01:25:24.000 Ty's an animal.
01:25:25.000 He's an animal.
01:25:25.000 He's a crazy person.
01:25:27.000 Tried to drink a beer out of my shoe one day when I was interviewing him.
01:25:29.000 I go, get the fuck out of here.
01:25:31.000 Amazing.
01:25:32.000 Australians are amazing.
01:25:33.000 This is like David Sinclair.
01:25:34.000 Every once in a while, he'll say something.
01:25:35.000 He's hilarious.
01:25:36.000 He's brilliant, and he's hilarious.
01:25:38.000 And he's Australian, so he's very irreverent.
01:25:41.000 They think outside the box.
01:25:43.000 I don't know what it is down there that makes them think.
01:25:45.000 They don't worry too much what people think about them.
01:25:48.000 Well, it used to be a prison colony.
01:25:50.000 True.
01:25:51.000 What a dumb move England did.
01:25:53.000 They sent all their prisoners to a way more beautiful place.
01:25:55.000 It is beautiful there.
01:25:56.000 It's an amazing place.
01:25:57.000 It's incredible.
01:25:58.000 I mean, it's definitely filled with a lot of shit that can kill you.
01:26:01.000 There's a lot of spiders and snakes and crocodiles and sharks and a lot of stuff that can kill you, but it's also beautiful.
01:26:09.000 Yeah, they're really comfortable with it.
01:26:10.000 Years ago, I was down in Australia for a meeting called Vision Down Under, and it rained the whole time.
01:26:16.000 We were on this little island called Fraser Island.
01:26:17.000 And on the last day, we were boarding the boat, and it was beautiful.
01:26:20.000 And I said to the guy who was riding the boat, I was like, oh, man, I wish I had...
01:26:24.000 Gone swimming here.
01:26:24.000 I wish the weather had been nice.
01:26:25.000 And he said, you know, you can't swim here.
01:26:27.000 This place is loaded with tiger sharks and these jellyfish that will kill you.
01:26:32.000 I said, but there are no signs.
01:26:33.000 You know, in the U.S., like they got a sign for everything.
01:26:35.000 And he goes, oh, yeah, well, everybody knows that.
01:26:37.000 And I thought, oh, my goodness, like basically the bad weather saved my life because I would have just gone during one of the breaks or probably during one of the sessions.
01:26:43.000 The jellyfish will fuck you up.
01:26:45.000 Those things scare me.
01:26:46.000 Because I've been around the little ones that can't hurt you, and you think you can just push them away, but they're everywhere.
01:26:51.000 They're in your shorts.
01:26:52.000 They're everywhere.
01:26:53.000 It's bad.
01:26:54.000 Yeah, one of my kids got zapped by a jellyfish, the smallest of jellyfish.
01:26:59.000 Some little tentacles touched her in Costa Rica, and she was in agony.
01:27:05.000 Oh, yeah.
01:27:05.000 And it wasn't even that bad.
01:27:07.000 It wasn't like a poisonous one.
01:27:09.000 I mean, it was poisonous, but it wasn't something that can kill you.
01:27:11.000 And they have buckets of vinegar on it.
01:27:14.000 On the beach.
01:27:15.000 And so you would grab vinegar and pour it onto the wound.
01:27:19.000 That makes sense.
01:27:19.000 The acid will kill it.
01:27:20.000 You know, in the laboratory we have all these toxins.
01:27:22.000 Fugu toxin from the Puffervish TTX. We've got alpha-latra toxin, which is from Black widow spiders.
01:27:29.000 You have alpha bungro toxin from the pit vipers.
01:27:31.000 These are research tools that are used to block transmitters, what, you know, the chemicals that neurons use to communicate with one another.
01:27:37.000 And they were all derived and discovered from these animals.
01:27:41.000 And the animal actually that can kill you the fastest is one of these cone fish, Or it's a cone snail, excuse me, it's like a snail that sits on the bottom of the ocean and it shoots this little tentacle up into the body of the fish.
01:27:54.000 And it puts in these neurotoxins that their potency, they work at what we call, you know, sort of picomolar concentration, which for the non-scientists out there just means very, very tiny concentrations.
01:28:03.000 And so in the lab, you know, you have a tiny vialis that could kill, you know, 40, 50 people.
01:28:07.000 They're all regulated, of course, because these are bio-warfare.
01:28:11.000 They're actually botulinum neurotoxin, you know, from cans.
01:28:15.000 Remember, cans could have botulinum that would cause freeze-up of the muscles.
01:28:19.000 That's how it kills you.
01:28:20.000 That's also how chicks get Botox.
01:28:22.000 That's Botox.
01:28:22.000 And some strange guys.
01:28:25.000 It blocks the...
01:28:26.000 It seems like more and more nowadays.
01:28:28.000 It's so odd when you're talking to a man and he can't move his forehead.
01:28:32.000 That's pretty bizarre.
01:28:32.000 Like, hey, man, is this worth it?
01:28:34.000 Exactly.
01:28:35.000 It looks it's progressively worse and worse.
01:28:37.000 There's this runaway effect of the Botox.
01:28:39.000 Yeah, well they get shiny and for some reason it's it doesn't move and why is it shiny like I'm shiny, but I swear to God I don't have Botox.
01:28:46.000 I'm guessing it's because the so the sweat gland As interesting, we were talking about temperature.
01:28:52.000 The sweat gland is actually controlled by the same receptor, the acetylcholine receptor, as is the muscles that contract.
01:28:59.000 When you move a muscle of any kind, it's because you have acetylcholine receptors.
01:29:03.000 Botox blocks acetylcholine receptors.
01:29:05.000 It's alpha-bungarotoxin from the pit viper.
01:29:08.000 They're injecting it there.
01:29:09.000 So there's acetylcholine's release and the muscle can't contract.
01:29:11.000 It just sits there flaccid.
01:29:12.000 So it's this like flaccid paralysis.
01:29:16.000 There are all these things that can kill you that you have in the laboratory that uses a research tool.
01:29:20.000 You're obviously very careful with them, but it was reported, I don't know if they ever verified it, that before he was killed, Saddam Hussein had botulinum spores.
01:29:30.000 He was growing botulinum.
01:29:33.000 In laboratories over there because all you would have to do is release a small amount of these spores into the air and you could kill an entire city with botulinum easily.
01:29:41.000 Everyone would just asphyxiate.
01:29:42.000 Their lungs wouldn't work.
01:29:43.000 You couldn't move your lungs.
01:29:44.000 You couldn't breathe.
01:29:45.000 Jesus Christ.
01:29:46.000 So bioterrorism is something that we don't hear about as much these days because now we hear more about information terrorism and control over information grids and The internet, the viruses and the whole thing, but these toxins work at extremely low concentrations and they all come from the natural kingdom,
01:30:05.000 you know, pit vipers and the black widow's spider one is a, I can imagine be a particularly bad death.
01:30:12.000 Alpha-lateral toxin causes the nerve that releases acetylcholine to vomit all the acetylcholine at once.
01:30:19.000 So if you had A lot of alpha-latra toxin injected in your body.
01:30:22.000 Every muscle would be completely flaccid.
01:30:25.000 Every nerve cell would dump all the acetylcholine and you would just, it's gotta be the most horrible death ever.
01:30:30.000 Is that extremely toxic to the point of death of black widow spiders?
01:30:35.000 Yeah, so it's very low concentration in one black widow spider, but in a vial of alpha-latra toxin, which we use all the time.
01:30:42.000 I've heard of people getting stung by black widows.
01:30:44.000 I used to see them all the time in California.
01:30:47.000 Yeah, I don't like those things.
01:30:49.000 They're everywhere.
01:30:49.000 The wood piles, they love those things.
01:30:50.000 Yeah, well, they were everywhere.
01:30:52.000 I do not.
01:30:52.000 You know, it's weird.
01:30:53.000 I don't really have a problem with spiders, but snakes freak me out.
01:30:56.000 Yeah, I'm not a fan of anything that's cold-blooded.
01:31:00.000 They freak me out.
01:31:01.000 Like, I don't like reptiles.
01:31:03.000 That's how I feel about organ meats.
01:31:04.000 I don't like smooth muscles.
01:31:06.000 Oh, I do.
01:31:06.000 I love organ meats.
01:31:07.000 I only like skeletal muscles.
01:31:08.000 But, uh, I try to buy...
01:31:09.000 It's kind of an asshole thing of me.
01:31:11.000 I try to buy as many alligator products as I can.
01:31:13.000 I fucking hate alligators.
01:31:15.000 When I was a kid, I lived in Gainesville, Florida.
01:31:18.000 And, uh, I remember a lady got her...
01:31:26.000 Oh my goodness.
01:31:40.000 And this lady was walking her dog along the lake, and a fucking alligator just jumped out and snatched up her dog.
01:31:48.000 And then recently in Orlando, a fucking baby got killed at Disney World.
01:31:53.000 Are you serious?
01:31:54.000 A baby got killed at Disney World by a monster.
01:31:58.000 A monster came out of the lake and ate a baby.
01:32:01.000 That's it.
01:32:02.000 So this little toddler is walking around by the water, and this fucking alligator came out, snatched the toddler, and dragged it into the water and ate it.
01:32:09.000 Yeah, I don't like alligators either.
01:32:10.000 I fucking hate those things.
01:32:11.000 So since I was 11 years old, I fucking hated them.
01:32:14.000 And I buy alligator skin as much as I can.
01:32:17.000 Like whenever, if I find out that something's made out of Leveral, I'm like, hmm, I wonder if they make it out of alligator.
01:32:22.000 And I try to find.
01:32:24.000 226 alligators were removed from Disney World since toddler's death five years ago.
01:32:28.000 Imagine!
01:32:29.000 Yeah, let's just hope it's 200. Just imagine that.
01:32:31.000 Let's just hope they started.
01:32:32.000 They seem crawling around the rides all the time.
01:32:33.000 People have caught video.
01:32:34.000 Like, hey, look at that giant lizard.
01:32:36.000 That number is so crazy.
01:32:40.000 226 alligators at the happiest place on earth.
01:32:42.000 They're getting invaded by monsters.
01:32:44.000 I can't say I like allegories.
01:32:45.000 I have this friend, you may know him.
01:32:47.000 I don't know if you've ever crossed paths.
01:32:48.000 His name is Michael Muller.
01:32:49.000 He's a famous kind of celebrity photographer in Hollywood, does all the Marvel stuff, but he also takes pictures of sharks.
01:32:55.000 Oh, that's where he took some of Whitney's early photos because he does a lot of photos.
01:32:59.000 Anyway, I've gone out there with him to Guadalupe and he dived with the Great Whites and he does this thing of cage exiting and the whole thing.
01:33:06.000 He was down in Cuba when they opened up Cuba.
01:33:09.000 And he was getting virtual reality footage.
01:33:12.000 He's doing these incredible underwater movies for sake of conservation.
01:33:16.000 He's got one now, I think it's called Into the Now.
01:33:18.000 It's amazing to see in VR these sharks coming right up close.
01:33:22.000 But then they were swimming with these saltwater crocodiles.
01:33:25.000 And I remember he came back and he said, check this out.
01:33:28.000 Those scare me.
01:33:29.000 The sharks are kind of more reasonable because I've been down there at Guadalupe with Michael.
01:33:32.000 I've actually done the cage exit thing.
01:33:34.000 I don't recommend people do it, but the sharks are busy grabbing tuna, doing their thing.
01:33:38.000 They're not really hunting you.
01:33:39.000 They're kind of checking you out.
01:33:41.000 And if you understand their behavior a little bit, you can maneuver there.
01:33:43.000 But these saltwater crocodiles, they have no soul.
01:33:47.000 I'm with you on this one.
01:33:49.000 They're just a killing machine.
01:33:51.000 They just sleep and kill.
01:33:53.000 So he had the VR camera and he's got this croc, whatever, the salties or whatever the Australians call them.
01:33:58.000 But they're in Cuba and it's coming at him.
01:34:01.000 And after that, I was like, Muller, you have three kids.
01:34:03.000 You've got a loving wife.
01:34:04.000 He's got a great wife and kids.
01:34:06.000 Get out of there, dude.
01:34:07.000 Yeah, get out of there.
01:34:08.000 Yeah, my friend Jim Shockey, he's a famous hunter.
01:34:13.000 He lives in Canada, and they actually hired him to go to, I think it was Zimbabwe.
01:34:20.000 There was some river in Africa where the local people were getting preyed upon by crocodiles at such an alarming rate that everyone in the village had scars.
01:34:30.000 There was guys missing an arm, a lady would miss a leg, people with, like, bites taken out of their thighs.
01:34:36.000 These things would just snap.
01:34:37.000 And while he was there setting up, one of the women who was washing clothes got snatched up from the beach.
01:34:44.000 They're everywhere there.
01:34:45.000 And they're fucking huge.
01:34:47.000 These are enormous, like, 18-foot crocodiles that are just snatching people.
01:34:51.000 It's crazy.
01:34:52.000 And they actively hunt people.
01:34:54.000 And so he was hired to go down there and set up shop and just start whacking them.
01:34:58.000 Oh, man.
01:34:59.000 Just put away as many as you can.
01:35:00.000 But, you know, you're putting a dent in a population of super predators that's probably established itself very deeply, like the roots of those things.
01:35:08.000 There's probably so many of them, you're not really going to do enough to keep these people safe.
01:35:13.000 But they would put these poles in the ground and set up almost like a crude fence around an area where they could gather water and then, you know, and wash their clothes and stuff.
01:35:25.000 And the crocodiles would figure their way through it.
01:35:27.000 Yeah, they're dinosaurs, basically.
01:35:29.000 They've been around for, yeah, in that form.
01:35:31.000 I think they're older, they are dinosaurs, because they're older than the impact, the impact in the Yucatan.
01:35:39.000 So I think they go back more than 100 million years.
01:35:42.000 Yeah, they're primitive.
01:35:43.000 Fucking creeps.
01:35:44.000 They're primitive.
01:35:44.000 I've seen alligator brains.
01:35:45.000 I spent a lot of time, I work for a journal called the Journal of Comparative Neurology, where you compare the eyes and brains to a lot of different species.
01:35:52.000 When you look at the brain of a given species, you get a really good picture about what that species cares about.
01:35:56.000 If you look at the brain of a sent hound, These are scent hounds that went down in veterinary clinics.
01:36:00.000 Never want to kill a dog.
01:36:01.000 Love dogs.
01:36:02.000 But they have huge olfactory bulbs compared to a sight hound, which has small olfactory bulbs.
01:36:07.000 Or a bulldog, which basically has no olfactory bulbs.
01:36:10.000 Because its nose is so smushed up.
01:36:12.000 Yeah, it's not a good breather.
01:36:14.000 But the bulldog's interesting.
01:36:15.000 The bulldog has a tiny amygdala, the fear region.
01:36:18.000 And you always think of the bulldog, they're fearless.
01:36:20.000 I had a bulldog.
01:36:21.000 Unfortunately, I put him down last week.
01:36:24.000 It was terrible.
01:36:24.000 But he got skunked over a hundred times.
01:36:28.000 Because this bastard, you would hear rustling in the bushes, and he would just go in.
01:36:33.000 It's like the marine thing.
01:36:35.000 They just go in.
01:36:36.000 They don't ask questions like, what's there?
01:36:37.000 So he's an English bulldog?
01:36:38.000 He was an English bulldog mastiff.
01:36:40.000 Oh, that's interesting.
01:36:41.000 It's crazy.
01:36:42.000 I don't want to cry because I just put him down.
01:36:43.000 So I don't want to talk about him too long.
01:36:45.000 I had him 11 years ago.
01:36:46.000 His name was Costello, he had a head like this, 22 inch neck.
01:36:49.000 And actually I'll come clean now because maybe the veterinary world will come after me.
01:36:53.000 About eight years into owning him, he had all these health problems.
01:36:56.000 He was putting on weight, he was shedding like crazy, his joints were aching.
01:37:01.000 And a friend of mine said, well, why don't you put him on a little bit of testosterone?
01:37:05.000 I had him clipped when he was younger, neutered him.
01:37:07.000 So I started giving him 10 to 20 milligrams of testosterone a week.
01:37:12.000 Everything changed.
01:37:13.000 His appetite came back.
01:37:14.000 He stopped shedding.
01:37:15.000 He leaned out.
01:37:16.000 And I asked my vet.
01:37:17.000 I said, what's the story here?
01:37:18.000 And she said, there are a lot of things that we could do to make animals' lives better that we don't.
01:37:23.000 For instance, hormone therapy.
01:37:25.000 Give them cough medication.
01:37:26.000 But wait a minute.
01:37:27.000 Why not just take...
01:37:28.000 Not have them clip.
01:37:30.000 Well, I didn't think of that.
01:37:31.000 I was too late and you can't put them- So many doctors are so, they're so eager.
01:37:36.000 Did you clip Marshall?
01:37:37.000 No!
01:37:38.000 Okay, so you're ahead of the curve because- Well, I had a great doctor.
01:37:42.000 I had a great doctor in Los Angeles that told me, he said, there's no reason to do this.
01:37:46.000 He goes, Look, people don't want unwanted puppies.
01:37:49.000 He goes, but you're not letting your dog just run around and breed with things.
01:37:53.000 He's like, there's a risk of prostate cancer.
01:37:55.000 That's the thing.
01:37:55.000 But, you know, dogs kind of get prostate cancer anyway.
01:37:58.000 He goes, there is maybe an association between not being clipped.
01:38:03.000 But that's also with humans.
01:38:04.000 You know, there was a thing that just was published very recently that said there's a direct correlation between castration and life extension.
01:38:13.000 Sure.
01:38:14.000 Would you remember that?
01:38:15.000 I mean, along these lines, I just to your doctor is a good one because whoever that is, because there was an article recently, I think it was Wall Street Journal, maybe it was Washington Post that said that they've been pulling vets and vets are starting to say, yeah, if you really ask me, it's not the right thing to do for their health.
01:38:30.000 Just about the joint pain.
01:38:32.000 I mean, Costello was a 90 pound Bulldog Mastiff.
01:38:35.000 He has to carry that load.
01:38:37.000 And he can't repair his joints.
01:38:39.000 The moment he started getting regular TRT. I'm coming clean.
01:38:42.000 My dog was on TRT. Usada, come after me.
01:38:45.000 He was happier.
01:38:47.000 He slept better.
01:38:49.000 His breathing got better.
01:38:50.000 Everything was better.
01:38:51.000 At the end, like a nerve degeneration thing got him.
01:38:55.000 What we do to these animals is terrible.
01:38:57.000 You can't castrate a male animal unless you have an exceptionally good reason to do it.
01:39:02.000 I think it's actually cruelty to animals to do it.
01:39:04.000 And I confess I did it not knowing better.
01:39:07.000 There's a reason why they give testosterone to help depression in male species.
01:39:11.000 Well, there's a lot of people that are trying to influence people to do it.
01:39:16.000 Like when you go to your vet, like I had a bulldog who, or who's a mastiff rather, who died a few years back.
01:39:23.000 And I brought him to the vet, a different vet.
01:39:26.000 The other vet unfortunately died.
01:39:28.000 And when I brought him to the vet, the lady was pointing at his balls.
01:39:32.000 And she goes, what are those there for?
01:39:35.000 I go, those are his balls.
01:39:37.000 And she goes, why does he still have them?
01:39:39.000 I go, because I want him to.
01:39:41.000 What are you doing?
01:39:43.000 This is not what he's here for.
01:39:45.000 He's here for something else.
01:39:46.000 I think they scare people or something.
01:39:48.000 Well, she was just making it seem like it's a mandatory thing that you have to do to a dog.
01:39:52.000 And I'm like, why?
01:39:54.000 Tell me, because I know, I did it to one of my dogs in the past, and he immediately got lackadaisical.
01:40:00.000 He lost a lot of his enthusiasm.
01:40:01.000 I did it to him as an adult.
01:40:03.000 Yeah, that's rough.
01:40:04.000 Yeah, and he lost all his energy.
01:40:07.000 It was crazy to watch it drain out of him, and I was like, this is fascinating.
01:40:12.000 You know, like, he just stopped having energy, stopped having enthusiasm.
01:40:16.000 It was just like, all of his gas just went out of the system.
01:40:20.000 I gave Costello testosterone end stake to the end, and I'm proud of it.
01:40:23.000 And in female dogs, you know, estrogen prolongs brain health.
01:40:26.000 I mean, you ask any sort of perimenopausal woman how they're feeling, it's generally not they're feeling better than they were before.
01:40:33.000 And estrogen replacement therapy makes people feel better, their brain functions better.
01:40:37.000 I think the same is true for female dogs.
01:40:39.000 I mean, I don't know how this whole thing got started.
01:40:42.000 Somebody who knows the veterinary world better than I will probably...
01:40:45.000 It's unwanted puppies, I'm sure.
01:40:47.000 Yeah, but like you said, they're not running the neighborhood anymore.
01:40:50.000 I agree.
01:40:50.000 I mean, look, with cats, it's a different story.
01:40:52.000 I've had male cats before, and the problem is they piss all over your house.
01:40:56.000 They spray.
01:40:57.000 Yeah, I'm not a big...
01:40:58.000 I mean, I'm not anti-cat, but...
01:41:00.000 I like cats.
01:41:01.000 They're cool, but they kill billions of animals every year.
01:41:07.000 B.I. Billions of birds and mice.
01:41:11.000 And when people let their cats out, you're basically letting a genocidal, homicidal maniac out of your fucking house.
01:41:16.000 They are really good at all.
01:41:17.000 They're ruthless.
01:41:18.000 And I used to have this cat.
01:41:20.000 She was a ragdoll.
01:41:21.000 And her name was Spaz.
01:41:23.000 And she was this little fluffball.
01:41:24.000 You wouldn't imagine that she would want to kill anything.
01:41:27.000 And she would go outside and immediately turn into a fucking assassin and just start stalking things.
01:41:33.000 I had a courtyard in my house.
01:41:35.000 It was a contained courtyard in California.
01:41:37.000 So it wasn't even she was out there in the wild, just in the courtyard.
01:41:40.000 Something fucked up and landed in that courtyard.
01:41:43.000 She would just slowly creep up on it.
01:41:45.000 It was just 100% instincts.
01:41:48.000 Would she do the teeth chatter?
01:41:49.000 Oh, yeah.
01:41:50.000 I had a bit about it in my act.
01:41:52.000 Oh, did you?
01:41:52.000 There's a known mechanism.
01:41:54.000 Do you know about this?
01:41:54.000 Yeah, no.
01:41:55.000 So the forebrain...
01:41:56.000 So basically the forebrain is controlling all the other stuff, all the impulses.
01:42:01.000 So when you want to eat something, you're like, I shouldn't.
01:42:03.000 That's your forebrain.
01:42:04.000 It's what we call no-go.
01:42:06.000 We have go functions and we have no-go.
01:42:09.000 Don't do it.
01:42:09.000 Don't do it.
01:42:09.000 Don't pick up the phone.
01:42:10.000 Don't do it.
01:42:10.000 Don't say this.
01:42:11.000 Don't do it.
01:42:12.000 Okay.
01:42:13.000 When the forebrain is damaged, you know, like that Aaron Hernandez documentary was a really good example.
01:42:18.000 People blame steroids, upbringing.
01:42:20.000 It was probably multiple things.
01:42:21.000 But if you combine...
01:42:23.000 Impulses, young male, probably on androgens.
01:42:26.000 You look at a size change there or not, maybe naturally high androgens.
01:42:29.000 And then you take away the forebrain.
01:42:30.000 You're essentially taking the break off behavior.
01:42:32.000 You want to do something, you're just going to do it.
01:42:34.000 Right.
01:42:34.000 So there's good evidence.
01:42:36.000 That's the thing with fighters with CTE. Yeah.
01:42:37.000 I mean, sociopathic, it's actually technically, it's not sociopathy.
01:42:42.000 It's called antisocial personality disorder, if you look in the psychiatric handbook.
01:42:47.000 Forebrain damage is part of that.
01:42:49.000 I mean, an inability to regulate behavior.
01:42:52.000 Sociopaths are a little bit different because they're very calculating.
01:42:54.000 It's not impulsivity.
01:42:55.000 It's more they're playing long game, kind of terrible stuff.
01:42:58.000 In any event, when your cat shifts into seeing something it wants to eat, complete transformation.
01:43:05.000 And then the stalking is a lot of top-down control, as we call it, the forebrain going, no go, no go, no go.
01:43:11.000 And that teeth chatter is a little bit of behavior sneaking through It's like in that tonic, tonic, as we call it, tonic paralysis, and then bam, it just does the attack.
01:43:19.000 And so it's a beautiful example.
01:43:22.000 Predation is a beautiful example of the brain regulating its own behavior because it gets one shot to bolt out after that mouse or bird or whatever it is.
01:43:30.000 And so that teeth chatter is just a little bit of reflex that is creeping through that, and then it, whoosh, the valve hits.
01:43:38.000 It makes noises, doesn't it?
01:43:39.000 Yeah.
01:43:40.000 I had a bit that I did in my act about...
01:43:44.000 I put a post up on my Instagram.
01:43:47.000 I go, this is some meat from a deer who liked to kick babies and was about to join ISIS. And then I wrote hashtag vegan.
01:43:55.000 And because I wrote hashtag vegan, it got in the hashtag vegan world.
01:43:59.000 So people look for other vegan posts.
01:44:03.000 People who are really into veganism, they look up other vegans and they're all excited about vegan posts.
01:44:10.000 And so for me having this hunk of deer meat and a joke, you know, that it was a deer that liked to kick babies and was about to join ISIS. When I did that all these fucking people came after me in like the most mean Vicious way like what are they do?
01:44:26.000 They said so compassionate these vegans, but one of the things they did was this one lady came at me in this really Ruth when people get really mean one things I always like to do is like to try to see This is before I stopped reading people's comments by the way.
01:44:39.000 This is quite a few years back Lex and I have been talking about that.
01:44:42.000 I want to get very important so I get to the to this lady's page and she's a fucking complete lunatic and And one thing I see in one of her hashtags is hashtag vegan cat.
01:44:52.000 And this is a total true story.
01:44:55.000 A cat is a carnivore.
01:44:55.000 Exactly.
01:44:56.000 It's classified in the biology books as a carnivore.
01:44:59.000 An obligate carnivore.
01:45:00.000 Carnivora.
01:45:01.000 Yeah.
01:45:01.000 The order of carnivores.
01:45:03.000 Yes.
01:45:04.000 So, literally in my bit, I go, fuck, should I click this?
01:45:08.000 Because it was late at night, and I was like, goddammit, this is going to keep me up all night long, because I know I'm going to go down a rabbit hole.
01:45:15.000 And I did, so I went down this rabbit hole.
01:45:16.000 And what I said is, it's a series of photographs of cats that look like they're in a house with a gas leak.
01:45:24.000 Every cat is just like, and it's like vegan cat.
01:45:26.000 My cat loves spinach.
01:45:27.000 This cat's like, where the fuck is the real food?
01:45:30.000 Well, this is a good example.
01:45:31.000 You've taken an animal.
01:45:32.000 I think a lot about animals.
01:45:34.000 And I confess, in my research career, I've worked on animals.
01:45:36.000 I have worked on a lot of animals.
01:45:38.000 Nowadays, I work on humans, which feels much better because they consent.
01:45:42.000 And animal research is important.
01:45:44.000 I mean, you have to be thoughtful about what you do and why, but it is important because you're not going to put experimental stuff into humans, you know.
01:45:51.000 You could, but legally you can't.
01:45:53.000 So when we take these animals and we domesticate them, sometimes It's kind, and we enter this reciprocal, symbiotic relationship with them.
01:46:02.000 But sometimes you're depriving the animal of some basic instincts that's so innate that you're actually torturing the animal.
01:46:09.000 You are torturing a cat if you make that cat eat soybeans.
01:46:12.000 This is why I'm not a hunter.
01:46:14.000 I know you're a hunter, but I've been talking to hunters.
01:46:16.000 Andy Galpin, I learned as a hunter, and I think Andy's terrific.
01:46:20.000 He's awesome.
01:46:20.000 He knows so much.
01:46:21.000 Brilliant.
01:46:22.000 He's been absolutely a critical resource for me.
01:46:25.000 It's a great follow on Instagram, too, and on Twitter as well.
01:46:28.000 He really parses the literature on sports performance physiology.
01:46:32.000 I mean, he does it right down to the muscle microscopy, but he also works with athletes and typical people.
01:46:37.000 He's a real practitioner.
01:46:39.000 I mean, I really have respect for him.
01:46:41.000 I love these people.
01:46:42.000 I guess it sounds like Donaher is his name.
01:46:43.000 People have just really poured themselves into something, but he's a hunter as well.
01:46:47.000 Hunters and ranchers really understand the relationship between animal and human, and they understand that before this thing is your pet, before it's got its name or it's your dog or it's your cat, it's an animal.
01:46:58.000 And if you look at the brain of an animal, you can understand that this brain needs certain things.
01:47:04.000 And if you deprive it of those things, it is a form of animal cruelty.
01:47:07.000 People need to understand about hunting that it's highly regulated, too.
01:47:11.000 The idea is that you're going to kill all these animals.
01:47:14.000 Well, listen, you are not going to kill all these animals.
01:47:19.000 They had a problem in the early 19th century.
01:47:23.000 When there was essentially a mass extinction of wild game animals on this planet because of market hunting.
01:47:32.000 Because it was unrestricted, unregulated market hunting.
01:47:35.000 So people, this is before refrigeration, people would run around and they would shoot as many things as they can and they would sell them at markets.
01:47:42.000 And it led to a massive decrease in deer, elk, bear, everything.
01:47:47.000 Now, they're highly regulated, and there's more deer in America today than when Columbus came here.
01:47:53.000 They're very well regulated.
01:47:55.000 Don't they even have them in Hawaii or something?
01:47:57.000 Yes, that's Axis deer, and that's a real problem.
01:47:59.000 Because those were brought by the King of India, brought them to King Kamehameha, who was the king of Hawaii at the time, and they brought in this incredibly prolific animal with no predators.
01:48:12.000 So, in the island of Lanai, you gotta say it right.
01:48:16.000 I usually say Lanai, but it's Lanai.
01:48:18.000 They have 3,000 people and somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000 deer.
01:48:25.000 Wow.
01:48:25.000 It's nuts.
01:48:26.000 When you're there at night and you drive, like we were there and this lady turned the headlights on for us and turned towards the field, and you see...
01:48:36.000 A fucking thousand eyeballs.
01:48:38.000 You can't believe how many eyeballs you see looking back at you.
01:48:41.000 It's madness.
01:48:42.000 Just seas of axis deer.
01:48:44.000 And they are delicious.
01:48:46.000 Are they?
01:48:47.000 I was going to ask, are they good eating?
01:48:48.000 They're so good.
01:48:49.000 But they evolved around tigers.
01:48:52.000 So they're from India.
01:48:53.000 So they're insanely hard to hunt, unless you're using a rifle.
01:48:57.000 So this is how hard they are to hunt.
01:49:00.000 When I went there, I went there with Cam Haynes, who's probably the best bow hunter on earth, and John Dudley, who's probably neck and neck with him.
01:49:08.000 There's like us and a couple other hunters who are like top of the food chain, like Adam Greentree and Remy Warren.
01:49:15.000 We were all successful in bow hunting these animals.
01:49:19.000 They're very difficult to kill.
01:49:20.000 What makes them hard?
01:49:21.000 So I'm very interested in predator-prey relationship.
01:49:24.000 So these axes here, they hear you from a mile.
01:49:26.000 They hear you from a mile away, they're gone.
01:49:28.000 They smell you, they're gone.
01:49:30.000 And they jump the string.
01:49:31.000 What that means is when you shoot, the sound of your bow going off makes them duck down and leap forward.
01:49:40.000 Because the way they move, the way they get away, is they drop all their body weight down so they load their limbs.
01:49:48.000 They load their muscles and then they sprint.
01:49:51.000 Can they jump high?
01:49:53.000 Oh my god, like gazelles.
01:49:54.000 So they take off, right?
01:49:56.000 And they're insanely fast.
01:49:57.000 So I have a video of this axis deer that I shot at.
01:50:01.000 It was like 80 yards.
01:50:03.000 So I'm like lined up on this thing.
01:50:07.000 The bow goes off.
01:50:09.000 The arrow's going towards him.
01:50:10.000 He hears the arrow going towards him.
01:50:12.000 And maybe 30 yards away, he's gone.
01:50:15.000 He takes off.
01:50:16.000 So we actually figured out that the best time to hunt them is in the afternoon because it's windy.
01:50:21.000 And when it's windy, they can't hear you.
01:50:23.000 But you have to be in the right position.
01:50:25.000 You have to sneak in.
01:50:26.000 You got to get close enough.
01:50:28.000 We were successful.
01:50:30.000 There was 150 hunters after us over the next year.
01:50:35.000 One was successful.
01:50:36.000 Every single one of them gave up on the bow and started to pick up a rifle.
01:50:40.000 They said, listen, this is crazy.
01:50:41.000 And the guys are like, I'm telling you, this is hard.
01:50:44.000 How long?
01:50:45.000 Because I know nothing about this.
01:50:46.000 Maybe you can explain because I'm curious.
01:50:48.000 So you'll set off on one of these hunts.
01:50:50.000 How long are you going to be out for?
01:50:51.000 Well, one of the beautiful things about Lanai is that you're there and there's a Four Seasons there.
01:50:59.000 So you stay in the Four Seasons.
01:51:02.000 Or you could rent a house.
01:51:04.000 One of the guys rented a house and a few of the other hunters stayed there.
01:51:08.000 But there's only a few.
01:51:10.000 It's paradise, essentially.
01:51:12.000 So you're staying at the beach in paradise and then you hang out all day.
01:51:18.000 Lift weights, fuck around, swim in the pool, and then in the late afternoon you go hunting.
01:51:23.000 So you go hunting, you leave at like 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and that's when the wind starts to pick up, and that wind will disguise your sound and your movement, and we found that to be the most effective way.
01:51:33.000 To hunt.
01:51:35.000 We figured out somewhere along the line that we're way more effective in the afternoon than we were in the morning.
01:51:40.000 And because I was there with my family as well, I said, okay, this is what I'll do.
01:51:43.000 I'll just dedicate my entire day to hanging out with my wife and kids, and then in the afternoon we'll get to hunt again.
01:51:48.000 Very primal.
01:51:49.000 Spend time with the family and then go kill.
01:51:51.000 It's also one of the best places to hunt.
01:51:54.000 It's an odd place to hunt because it's kind of unnatural, right?
01:51:57.000 You're in paradise and it's also an invasive species.
01:52:00.000 But it's one of the best places to hunt ethically because they must kill these things because they're very overpopulated.
01:52:08.000 They don't have a disease problem, but it's always a possibility that something could be introduced into the population, whether it's brucellosis or CWD or something that does...
01:52:17.000 Yeah, well, this whole thing, whether or not it was from a lab or it was from an animal, this whole thing with the virus out of China, it was definitely out of China.
01:52:25.000 We know that much.
01:52:26.000 Tells you that the relationship between animals and humans is a very thin veil.
01:52:30.000 It's a very thin veil.
01:52:31.000 And there are little bugs and parasites and intermediate animals that act as what we call vectors, and they will cross the line for us.
01:52:38.000 Are you aware of CWD? No.
01:52:40.000 CWD is a prion disease.
01:52:42.000 Oh, I know what prions are.
01:52:43.000 I have no interest in getting that.
01:52:44.000 It's terrifying.
01:52:45.000 It's essentially the same thing as Jakob Kurzfeld's disease.
01:52:48.000 It's mad cow disease.
01:52:49.000 And it's extensive in deer populations now.
01:52:53.000 If you cook the meat, it's preserved?
01:52:55.000 No, it doesn't jump.
01:52:56.000 It doesn't jump.
01:52:58.000 Yet.
01:52:59.000 But nobody who's sane wants to eat a deer that's been infected with CWD. Have you ever seen what it looks like?
01:53:06.000 Let me see.
01:53:08.000 Jamie, pull up CWD-infected deer.
01:53:11.000 It's a really heavy subject of contention amongst deer hunters because some people are in denial about it.
01:53:18.000 And one of the reasons why they're in denial about it is like many things that are...
01:53:21.000 Look how fucked up that deer is.
01:53:23.000 One of the reasons why they're in denial about it is because, like many things, there's a financial incentive to ignore this disease.
01:53:33.000 And because a lot of, in certain parts of the country, And even right here in Texas, they breed deer.
01:53:41.000 And they have these deer farms.
01:53:44.000 And what they're doing is they're trying to get deer with these giant antlers.
01:53:47.000 And then they'll bring them to an area that has, you know, like a private land area.
01:53:54.000 And they'll let them loose.
01:53:56.000 It's really kind of shifty.
01:53:57.000 And it's really gross.
01:54:00.000 And in the deer hunting world, it's not respected, these animals, because they look like freaks.
01:54:10.000 Like, pull up...
01:54:11.000 How should I phrase this?
01:54:17.000 Farmed deer giant antlers.
01:54:19.000 They give these deer this preposterous concoction of protein-rich pellets, so they feed these deer.
01:54:29.000 And look at those, look at the antlers.
01:54:31.000 Oh, it looks ridiculous.
01:54:32.000 Yeah, what the fuck is that?
01:54:33.000 Yeah, this looks a lot like the Botox people, but the antler version.
01:54:38.000 Way crazier.
01:54:38.000 It's really like a tree.
01:54:39.000 Yeah, it looks like coral or something.
01:54:41.000 Yeah, it's madness.
01:54:42.000 Oh, that's horrible.
01:54:42.000 It's madness.
01:54:43.000 So, to me, that is manipulating biology for sake of whatever financial gain.
01:54:48.000 It's terrible.
01:54:49.000 It is for the sake of financial gain, but it's for the sake of dumb men.
01:54:54.000 It's mostly men, I believe.
01:54:56.000 It may be dumb women, too, but let's just not be sexist.
01:54:59.000 Dumb humans that want massive antlers from a deer.
01:55:03.000 Because here's the thing.
01:55:04.000 That deer might be a year old that has those antlers, too, by the way.
01:55:08.000 That's why it's so fucked up.
01:55:09.000 The whole idea of a large rack And the big animal means that's an animal that has evaded predators.
01:55:17.000 That's an animal that survived like nine years.
01:55:19.000 It's like rings on a tree.
01:55:20.000 Yes.
01:55:21.000 That is a survivor.
01:55:22.000 Like there's a place that I hunt in Utah, and it's a really rare place.
01:55:26.000 It's a beautiful place in the mountains of Utah.
01:55:27.000 And the people that run this enormous ranch, it's like 250,000 acres.
01:55:34.000 The people that run this, it's all like free range, wild animals.
01:55:39.000 But they won't allow anyone to hunt an animal that's less than nine years old.
01:55:43.000 So every animal that you're hunting is an animal that's evolved or evaded, rather, bears and mountain lions and even wolves there.
01:55:53.000 They've started to see some wolves in this one area.
01:55:56.000 So these are wise animals.
01:55:58.000 And that's the idea, is that this animal has bred.
01:56:01.000 They have passed on their genetics, and they have successfully, you know, bred for multiple years.
01:56:08.000 Now, here they are in, you know, when you're around nine years old, an elk, if they're lucky, lives to be like 11 or 12. Oh, that's the full lifespan.
01:56:18.000 I mean, maybe if you have them and you have no predators and you feed them, maybe they can live longer.
01:56:23.000 But the odds are, I mean, if you find a 15-year-old elk in the wild, that's crazy.
01:56:28.000 And usually they're going downhill.
01:56:30.000 Like, usually their antlers are shrinking, their body's shrinking like an old man, and they're deteriorating.
01:56:36.000 So when someone gets an animal with large antlers, it's A, good for conservation, because you're not taking an animal out before it spreads its genetics.
01:56:48.000 In fact, it spreads its genetics from multiple seasons.
01:56:51.000 And then B, it's fair chase.
01:56:54.000 Sure.
01:56:54.000 Because you're getting an animal that's wise, that's seen it all, that's seen mountain lions, that's seen bears, and they've avoided all this.
01:57:02.000 So you're getting a champion.
01:57:04.000 That's the idea.
01:57:04.000 Like, this is the one who's fought off all the other males and been able to breed, because they kill each other all the time.
01:57:10.000 And in this ranch, they'll find, every year, they'll find at least one elk that's been stabbed to death by another elk.
01:57:16.000 Yeah, no, this right to breed is fundamental.
01:57:19.000 Well, that's what the antlers are for.
01:57:20.000 The antlers are for violence.
01:57:22.000 They just fuck each other up.
01:57:25.000 And this idea of taking that and bastardizing it and feeding these animals this insane diet out of feeders.
01:57:35.000 So these animals literally will wander up to the feeder in the afternoon because they know it's about to go off.
01:57:40.000 They're on a timer.
01:57:41.000 And there's...
01:57:42.000 They'll spread these pellets, so they'll hear the noise of the machine go off, and they'll wade towards the pellets like it's dinner time, like a fucking dog.
01:57:51.000 It's no different than large animals in a zoo.
01:57:54.000 It's very similar.
01:57:55.000 I understand zoos play a particular role in breeding programs, conservation.
01:57:59.000 Not all zoos are bad, but I have a particular problem with large carnivores in zoos.
01:58:04.000 Years ago, I used to go to the San Francisco Zoo when I was a postdoc.
01:58:06.000 One night I was at the movies in San Francisco.
01:58:08.000 And someone said, you know, tigers escaped from the San Francisco Zoo and are eating people.
01:58:12.000 And I was like, that's crazy.
01:58:13.000 And this was kind of pre-internet.
01:58:14.000 Oh, I remember that.
01:58:15.000 So these kids actually went to the San Francisco Zoo.
01:58:17.000 The moats were too low.
01:58:18.000 And these kids, it was around Christmas.
01:58:21.000 They were throwing pine cones.
01:58:21.000 Yeah, they were throwing stuff at them.
01:58:22.000 I had a bit about that, too.
01:58:23.000 So this tiger, Tatiana was her name.
01:58:25.000 I knew about her because she had taken the arm of a zookeeper.
01:58:28.000 At the time, I was trying to date this woman who worked at the zoo.
01:58:30.000 So I was like hanging around the zoo.
01:58:32.000 Not to, you know, inappropriate levels.
01:58:34.000 Not in a creepy way.
01:58:35.000 Not in a creepy way.
01:58:36.000 Anyway...
01:58:38.000 Eventually, Tatiana the Tiger...
01:58:41.000 After taking the arm of one of the keepers, climbed out of the moat because they didn't have the glass guards there, got out.
01:58:47.000 Crowds were spreading.
01:58:48.000 This was near closing time.
01:58:50.000 Tatiana wove, this is what's amazing, wove through the crowd and went and killed one of the kids that had been throwing things at her.
01:58:56.000 So it was targeted revenge.
01:58:57.000 It was not random killing off of humans.
01:59:00.000 And then basically slashed up the other kid and then just sat there kind of, you know, sampling the blood or whatever.
01:59:07.000 The police showed up.
01:59:08.000 They shot Tatiana the tiger.
01:59:09.000 This is all documented.
01:59:11.000 And for a couple of years, I didn't know whether or not to rejoin.
01:59:14.000 I joined the zoo.
01:59:15.000 I wasn't like a donor to the zoo.
01:59:16.000 I had no money.
01:59:17.000 I was a postdoc at the time, but I was very conflicted because it was like, it seemed like they gave the animals a good life.
01:59:22.000 And yet clearly large carnivores in the zoos, you're depriving them of something fundamental, which is their need and desire to roam.
01:59:30.000 And the reason I put my dog down is because he needed to roam and smell things and he lost control of his legs.
01:59:34.000 It's not just roam.
01:59:34.000 They have a deep desire to kill.
01:59:36.000 That's part of what they do.
01:59:38.000 There's a reason why they exist.
01:59:40.000 They exist because there's a balance in nature.
01:59:42.000 You have prey population like antelope and these axis deer which are the ones that evolved with tigers.
01:59:48.000 It's why they're so fast.
01:59:50.000 And then you have predators.
01:59:51.000 Like, you know, it's horrific to say, but there was a video of a zoo in, I believe it was Iraq.
02:00:00.000 And right after the war, right after the war, the soldiers filmed the way they would feed the lions.
02:00:10.000 And the way they would feed the lions is they would let a goat out.
02:00:13.000 And the goat would wander.
02:00:15.000 The goat was like, oh, I guess I'm just hanging out out here now.
02:00:17.000 And then the lions knew that once they opened up the cage, the goat would be out there.
02:00:22.000 They were accustomed to it.
02:00:23.000 And so they opened up the cage, and this door opens, and these lions just come pouring out.
02:00:28.000 And they grab this goat and fuck it up, and they start tearing it apart and fighting each other over the pieces, and it's wild shit.
02:00:34.000 But that's what they want.
02:00:36.000 They don't want a cold plate of dead meat.
02:00:39.000 That's not what they want.
02:00:40.000 You know, as you're saying this, my neurobiologist mind goes to this.
02:00:44.000 Yeah, this is the video.
02:00:44.000 This is the video.
02:00:45.000 So these goats are hanging out.
02:00:46.000 Oh, hey, hey, how's everybody doing?
02:00:48.000 And then, boom, all these cats come rolling out.
02:00:51.000 And this is how they fed them.
02:00:52.000 But this is what they want, man.
02:00:54.000 I mean, people would say that's cruel.
02:00:56.000 But listen, you've got to kill the fucking goat to feed these things anyway.
02:00:59.000 Like, why is it cruel if they do it, but it's not cruel if you do it?
02:01:04.000 Because it's going to be more humane because you're going to kill them with a bullet?
02:01:07.000 I just don't think the goat is going to really care one way or another.
02:01:11.000 This is the last day of its fucking life.
02:01:13.000 And this is what a cat is supposed to do.
02:01:15.000 Sure.
02:01:16.000 And they're pretty effective killers.
02:01:18.000 It's not like they're going to torture it like a house cat will.
02:01:20.000 No, this is a circuit.
02:01:21.000 That's what's sick about house cats.
02:01:22.000 There's a really interesting study.
02:01:23.000 There's a guy at Caltech, great university obviously, a guy named David Anderson who studies things like aggression and whatnot.
02:01:29.000 And he's looked at these.
02:01:31.000 The hypothalamus is really interesting.
02:01:32.000 It's like this group of neurons.
02:01:34.000 They're all densely packed together.
02:01:34.000 But with modern methods now, you can really...
02:01:37.000 Turn on and off the different populations of neurons.
02:01:40.000 So they did this study a few years ago, looking at an area of the hypothalamus called the ventromedial hypothalamus.
02:01:45.000 And for years, people were confused about this area because you'd lesion it in an animal and the animals wouldn't fight, but they also wouldn't mate.
02:01:52.000 And what they eventually discovered is they have two populations of neurons in the structure, some that are responsible for mating and some for fighting.
02:01:58.000 So then using modern methods, what the Anderson lab showed is that if you trigger activation of one set of neurons in these In this ventromedial hypothalamus, the animals will just, the males will go and mount the female and mate as a mice.
02:02:11.000 If you at that moment, turn off those neurons and turn on the neurons that are right near them that are responsible for aggression, the male mouse will try and kill the female mouse.
02:02:21.000 But it's so extreme that if you just give a male mouse a glove filled with air or water and you turn on these neurons, The mouse will just go into a rage and try and kill the glove.
02:02:32.000 Wow.
02:02:33.000 Yeah, it's incredible.
02:02:34.000 And just to kind of explain just how strong these switches in the brain are, Last year, that same lab published a really interesting paper.
02:02:43.000 You know, animals mount to mate.
02:02:45.000 They do it from behind, basically.
02:02:47.000 Almost all animals.
02:02:48.000 Some primates don't.
02:02:49.000 Humans, obviously.
02:02:50.000 Switch it up.
02:02:54.000 But basically, what they discovered is there are two sets of neurons in the hypothalamus for mounting.
02:02:59.000 One is for males mounting females to mate, and another set of neurons is for males mounting other males for dominance.
02:03:07.000 Jiu-jitsu.
02:03:09.000 Jiu-jitsu gene.
02:03:11.000 Or the dog park phenomenon, where people always say, if your dog is mounting another dog, they always say, oh, yeah, they're dominating them.
02:03:18.000 And female animals have this circuit too.
02:03:20.000 You'll see a female pit bull.
02:03:21.000 My ex-partner and I, we had a pit bull as well.
02:03:25.000 It was an amazing dog, but you know, she was pretty dominant pit bull.
02:03:27.000 And we'd take her to the dog park and she would sometimes mount another dog.
02:03:31.000 And that isn't sexual mounting, that is dominance mounting.
02:03:34.000 And there's actually a separate circuit in the brain for dominance mounting.
02:03:39.000 And we, you know, people have been puzzled by this for a long time.
02:03:41.000 You know, is it sex?
02:03:42.000 Is the sex the dominant dominance?
02:03:45.000 And of course, this is in humans.
02:03:46.000 This is a very thin line.
02:03:48.000 Yeah, and who knows, right?
02:03:50.000 But let's face it, all of that would not fetishes and mounting and subs and doms and all that stuff would not be as much interest as it was if that circuitry didn't exist.
02:03:58.000 Right.
02:03:58.000 So in mammals, there are circuits for mounting for dominance that is independent of any desire to reproduce.
02:04:06.000 Super interesting, at least to my mind, because what this tells us is that deep within our biology, these drives exist.
02:04:12.000 So when you show the lions attacking a goat, There has to be a circuit in the hypothalamus that says, pursue, kill, and then eat.
02:04:19.000 And if you just give animal meat, you're essentially depriving it of some basic function.
02:04:24.000 Now in humans, it's different because you have to have societies that get along.
02:04:27.000 You can't have people just running their hypothalamus That's why you got the part up front.
02:04:45.000 It is like a door opens up to the past and you get this rush of whatever the endorphin is that I'd never experienced before I did that.
02:04:56.000 And it convinced me on the spot that I was going to be a hunter for the rest of my life.
02:05:01.000 I was like, that day, I can remember that day, my friend Steve Rinell that I talked about earlier took me hunting, we shot a mule deer, and then we're eating its liver, we cooked it over the fire.
02:05:11.000 Is it good?
02:05:12.000 Because no one's gotten me on the organ meat thing yet.
02:05:14.000 It's very good for you.
02:05:15.000 Okay.
02:05:15.000 I don't know, for whatever reason, I've always liked liver.
02:05:17.000 I always liked liver and onions.
02:05:19.000 I eat, like, when you shoot an elk, you get a liver that's about that big.
02:05:23.000 So I eat that liver all year round.
02:05:24.000 I need to try it.
02:05:24.000 I still have some left.
02:05:26.000 I need to try this sometime.
02:05:27.000 I still have some from last season.
02:05:28.000 I love it.
02:05:30.000 But my fucking kids hate it, man.
02:05:31.000 I try to get them to eat it.
02:05:32.000 They're like...
02:05:34.000 What if they didn't know what it was?
02:05:35.000 They would still think it's disgusting.
02:05:37.000 They don't like the taste.
02:05:37.000 But I know how good it is for you, too.
02:05:39.000 That's part of the thing.
02:05:40.000 And I also knew that the Comanche would eat it raw with bile on it.
02:05:44.000 They would squeeze bile from the gallbladder, salty bile on the actual raw liver, and they prized it.
02:05:54.000 That's what they really enjoyed.
02:05:55.000 Hearty people.
02:05:56.000 Well, the gall, you know, I'm fascinated by organ meats because, you know, you hear about gall, like someone has a lot of gall.
02:06:02.000 Yeah.
02:06:02.000 Well, that's because the gallbladder actually contains a number of androgen-like compounds that literally make your mind and your body stronger.
02:06:09.000 The gall of him.
02:06:10.000 Exactly.
02:06:10.000 Or the liver.
02:06:11.000 I actually take liver, but in capsule form because I want what— I do as well.
02:06:15.000 Because heme iron, H-E-M-E, is the most bioavailable source of iron.
02:06:19.000 And so, you know, women, because they menstruate, they lose a lot of iron.
02:06:23.000 And men, if you exercise a lot, you can get away with ingesting more iron.
02:06:27.000 You don't want it to go too high.
02:06:28.000 That's not good.
02:06:31.000 The liver is absolutely the best source of bioavailable.
02:06:34.000 I take Paul Saladino's stuff.
02:06:36.000 He has a series of supplements.
02:06:37.000 It's called Heart and Soil Supplement.
02:06:39.000 It's really good.
02:06:39.000 It's all desiccated liver and heart.
02:06:41.000 They just basically dehydrate it and put it in a pill form.
02:06:44.000 That'll take.
02:06:45.000 I've never tried that one.
02:06:46.000 I forget which brand I take, but I'm a big believer in this.
02:06:49.000 It's high in B12. I learned a lot from you today about hunting, and I think that...
02:06:56.000 It just sounds like such a humane and fundamentally grounded relationship between human and animal.
02:07:02.000 There's nothing humane about going and getting some factory farm meat at the grocery store and eating it.
02:07:07.000 But you can have a good relationship with ethical ranchers.
02:07:10.000 There are really great ethical ranchers where they have these cows that live an amazing life and they have one bad day.
02:07:18.000 And that one bad day, what they do is they lead them down this corridor.
02:07:22.000 They lock them into this thing.
02:07:25.000 They don't even know what's going on.
02:07:26.000 And then, boom, they get a bolt through the brain.
02:07:28.000 It's instantaneous death.
02:07:30.000 Yeah.
02:07:30.000 I have a friend from childhood.
02:07:31.000 Her name is Anya Fernald.
02:07:32.000 She has Belcampo Farms.
02:07:34.000 Oh, yeah.
02:07:34.000 That's a great place.
02:07:35.000 They're great.
02:07:36.000 And they've got the cows up there.
02:07:38.000 I've seen the ranch.
02:07:39.000 That's an excellent example of an ethical farm.
02:07:42.000 And the quality of their meat is incredible, too.
02:07:45.000 Yeah, I've known her since high school.
02:07:46.000 Both her parents actually are Stanford professors.
02:07:49.000 And early on, she was obsessed with animal welfare and like the relationship between animals and humans.
02:07:54.000 And look, it's very hard to do in talking with her.
02:07:56.000 You know, it's it's hard to do that at scale.
02:07:58.000 That's the problem.
02:07:59.000 How do you grow that?
02:08:00.000 And that's the issue.
02:08:01.000 But I think what's what's great is as people start to understand more about how I would say the five pillars essentially of health are like light, temperature, movement, nutrients, and then there's the other stuff like breathing and all the other stuff you do.
02:08:16.000 But in that nutrients category, it's like the quality of what you eat is without question as important as the amount and all that.
02:08:24.000 And I think that a focus on food quality and sourcing is it's such an important conversation.
02:08:29.000 I think that hunters And ranchers, they understand this relationship.
02:08:33.000 Well, that's what I was going to say, because the quality of meat from Wild Game is far superior.
02:08:39.000 It's far richer in protein.
02:08:41.000 But I'll show you, have you ever seen an elk steak, like a raw elk steak?
02:08:44.000 No, I keep hearing about these elk steaks on your podcast.
02:08:46.000 I salivate the Pavlovian response.
02:08:48.000 How long are you around for?
02:08:48.000 How many days a year?
02:08:49.000 A couple days.
02:08:49.000 You're here for a couple days?
02:08:50.000 I'm going to hang out with Lex for a bit, yeah.
02:08:52.000 Man, my fucking schedule is so crazy.
02:08:54.000 I'd like to cook some for you.
02:08:56.000 Let me see if I can figure out how to do this.
02:08:57.000 But it's a dark ruby red.
02:09:00.000 Like, dark.
02:09:01.000 Amazing.
02:09:01.000 It's so dark.
02:09:03.000 It's like a super athlete.
02:09:04.000 That's what an elk is.
02:09:05.000 They run up a mountain like it's nothing.
02:09:08.000 And they live this wild life.
02:09:10.000 And what I'm doing is I'm dipping my toe into their world.
02:09:14.000 I'm entering into their world.
02:09:15.000 I've got to earn it.
02:09:16.000 I've got to go hike these mountains and find them.
02:09:18.000 It sounds like they have the advantage.
02:09:20.000 Oh, they definitely.
02:09:20.000 Eh, sort of.
02:09:21.000 Sort of.
02:09:22.000 I get one every year, you know?
02:09:24.000 Yeah, but the other 150 schmoes didn't get one.
02:09:28.000 Well, there's a lot of...
02:09:29.000 That's different.
02:09:30.000 That's lanai.
02:09:32.000 That's axis deer.
02:09:34.000 I've been really fortunate, but I also have a really good guide that takes me.
02:09:37.000 And I also work out like a fucking animal.
02:09:40.000 That's a big part of it.
02:09:42.000 You have to have the ability to get up to that mountain.
02:09:45.000 You get up to the top of the mountain and you have to chase these things down.
02:09:48.000 What about carrying it out?
02:09:49.000 I've always been curious.
02:09:50.000 Do you clear the guts and all that out there and then carry it out?
02:09:54.000 Yes.
02:09:54.000 Well, I eat the guts.
02:09:56.000 I eat the liver and I eat the heart.
02:09:57.000 So I save those.
02:09:59.000 But you bring game bags.
02:10:02.000 It's heavy.
02:10:04.000 Well, I guess this is why Cameron, you know, I follow his account, I think.
02:10:09.000 Granted, I don't understand the whole thing and what it really means.
02:10:11.000 You should talk to him on your podcast.
02:10:13.000 He'd be great to talk to him.
02:10:14.000 Because he's also a human performance freak.
02:10:17.000 Because, you know, he does ultra marathons.
02:10:20.000 He runs the Moab 240. He runs 240 miles.
02:10:23.000 He runs three days of fucking 24 hours of running.
02:10:25.000 He's a psychopath.
02:10:27.000 It's impressive.
02:10:27.000 Yeah, he's beyond impressive.
02:10:29.000 But he did that.
02:10:30.000 He got into it to be the best bow hunter he could be because it's very difficult.
02:10:35.000 Bow hunting success, general bow hunting success, and a lot of this, you have to factor in public land, which is, I generally hunt private land.
02:10:43.000 A, because I have the financial resources, and B, because I don't want to be around that many people.
02:10:47.000 It's just like public land is, it's kind of, you're hunting two things.
02:10:52.000 You're doing two things that are difficult.
02:10:54.000 You're hunting a wild animal and you're in competition with a bunch of other people that are hunting the wild animal.
02:10:58.000 To me, I understand that there's an access issue that's tied to finances and I understand that for a lot of these people there's a badge of courage to be able to be successful hunting on public land.
02:11:11.000 But these animals are heavily, heavily pressured.
02:11:16.000 And many times what these real hardcore guys do is they'll hike into the backcountry 20 miles so they get away from people that aren't willing to do that.
02:11:27.000 Well now, because of people like Cam Haynes, because of a lot of these like Aaron Snyder and a lot of these crazy backpacking people, other people are doing that now too.
02:11:36.000 You'll go 20 miles in and you'll see a fucking wall tent filled with five guys and you're like, shit!
02:11:42.000 Okay, got another 10 miles.
02:11:44.000 And you're trying to get the fuck away from everybody.
02:11:46.000 I want to be around animals that behave like wild animals.
02:11:51.000 Animals that, if you're lucky, they've never seen a person.
02:11:54.000 Or, you know, maybe they saw someone from a distance riding a horse and they're like, what the fuck is that?
02:11:58.000 And they got out of there.
02:11:59.000 The more undisturbed they can be, the better.
02:12:01.000 And I find that's more likely the case on private land.
02:12:05.000 The issue is an issue of economics.
02:12:08.000 The issue is an issue of access and whether or not these highfalutin fuckheads like me who can afford to go to these private places, whether it's just as much of an accomplishment.
02:12:21.000 It's certainly you have more opportunity because there's more animals and they're more undisturbed.
02:12:28.000 So they're not going to be as jumpy.
02:12:30.000 There's a real problem with that.
02:12:32.000 If you go to a place that's a public land place on opening day, like I was in Wisconsin for opening day of deer season, and it sounds like World War II. Oh, because most people aren't using bow hunting.
02:12:46.000 They're using guns.
02:12:47.000 So at first light, this was my first day, I was with my friend Doug Duren, and he lives in Wisconsin.
02:12:53.000 He takes me out.
02:12:54.000 First light, the sun's starting to rise here.
02:12:57.000 Boom!
02:12:57.000 Boom!
02:12:59.000 Boom!
02:13:01.000 Boom!
02:13:02.000 Boom!
02:13:02.000 And then further back.
02:13:03.000 Boom!
02:13:04.000 Boom!
02:13:05.000 Boom!
02:13:06.000 Like, where's that one coming from?
02:13:08.000 Like, you hear fucking gunshots for like...
02:13:11.000 All day long.
02:13:12.000 Wow.
02:13:13.000 You hear gunshots.
02:13:14.000 It's crazy.
02:13:14.000 Well, and I guess when you're out there, people will eventually sometimes get shot.
02:13:17.000 Did Dick Cheney shoot a guy?
02:13:19.000 In a face!
02:13:20.000 And he apologized.
02:13:21.000 The other guy apologized.
02:13:22.000 I'm sorry, I look like a bird.
02:13:24.000 It's amazing.
02:13:25.000 Hunters are amazing.
02:13:27.000 Well, that's a different kind of hunting.
02:13:29.000 He was doing real canned hunting.
02:13:32.000 What that means is they literally open up a fucking gate and let these birds out.
02:13:37.000 And the birds go fly in the air.
02:13:38.000 That's live skeet shooting.
02:13:38.000 It's wild shit.
02:13:40.000 That's different.
02:13:40.000 That's a creepy kind of hunting.
02:13:42.000 But that's a very common hunting.
02:13:44.000 Where they let pheasants out and these guys just stand there and blow them out of the sky.
02:13:48.000 It's kind of fucked up.
02:13:49.000 Have you gotten into the spearfishing thing?
02:13:51.000 No, I have not.
02:13:52.000 But I do have a friend.
02:13:54.000 Well, Renella's really into that.
02:13:56.000 But Valentine Thomas.
02:13:58.000 She's...
02:13:59.000 Oh, yeah.
02:14:00.000 She's got...
02:14:01.000 Go to her page.
02:14:02.000 She's amazing.
02:14:04.000 And she's one of, like, the premier fisher people that's spreading the word of, like, how fun it is and wild it is.
02:14:13.000 And she used to be...
02:14:14.000 She was a lawyer in Montreal and decided to be a spearfisher person.
02:14:19.000 Very beautiful, as I recall.
02:14:20.000 Yeah, she's beautiful.
02:14:21.000 But look at that.
02:14:22.000 She killed a fucking Marlin.
02:14:23.000 Beauty and Marlin confirmed.
02:14:25.000 I mean, who the hell does that?
02:14:26.000 Who the hell kills a marlin with a spear?
02:14:28.000 But she's just really into the idea of promoting...
02:14:33.000 Oh, that's her and I. Look at that.
02:14:35.000 What is that?
02:14:36.000 Oh, is that one of the Ping Trip ones?
02:14:39.000 There's a guy named Ping Trip, and he takes things from the podcast and takes them and edits them.
02:14:46.000 So it makes it look like he'll take one of this and it'll make it look like you and I are having a conversation.
02:14:50.000 Oh, man.
02:14:51.000 We're like, what the fuck, dude?
02:14:53.000 And then you'll be like, hey, man.
02:14:54.000 And then he makes a little play out of it.
02:14:57.000 It's very funny.
02:14:58.000 Have you seen, there's this kid, Michael, he goes by Guanzhou Sound on Instagram, and he's been doing these song mashups of Lex and Donaher and you and, dare I say, me?
02:15:06.000 They're hilarious.
02:15:07.000 So he does like remixes, like songs of them, and they're pretty funny.
02:15:12.000 You should see.
02:15:12.000 The internet's amazing.
02:15:13.000 You're doing some funny stuff you're not aware of.
02:15:14.000 I'm sure.
02:15:15.000 Well, I wanted to get back to, though, I didn't finish my thought about these animals, these crazy antlers.
02:15:20.000 Yeah.
02:15:20.000 The problem with these animals, the crazy antlers, is not just that it's gross and that they feed these animals and then they release them on these properties and these guys shoot them and make it look like they did a big thing when they really are basically shooting a tamed animal.
02:15:31.000 The problem is they spread CWD. And one of the main ways that CWD gets spread is the captive-servit industry.
02:15:39.000 So there's a whole thing about this where some people that have a vested interest in the captive-servit industry are in denial about CWD and how dangerous it is.
02:15:50.000 And it's spreading.
02:15:52.000 I had a scientist, God, I can't remember his name, Brian, who came on with my friend Doug Duren.
02:15:58.000 My friend Doug, who owns a large farm in Wisconsin, a beautiful place, in the Driftless area, do you know what that means?
02:16:06.000 I don't know.
02:16:11.000 Brian Richards.
02:16:12.000 It was passed by the glaciers.
02:16:15.000 The glaciers didn't hit that area.
02:16:16.000 So it's beautiful, hilly, gorgeous country.
02:16:19.000 I think Wisconsin is just kind of flat.
02:16:21.000 Yes.
02:16:21.000 That's the area where the glaciers flattened it out.
02:16:24.000 This is an area where the glaciers missed.
02:16:26.000 So it's the driftless area of Wisconsin.
02:16:29.000 It's gorgeous.
02:16:30.000 It's called Cazenovia, Wisconsin, is where he's at.
02:16:34.000 And they are finding, like, you know, a large percentage of their deer that have this CWD. And the problem with CWD is when an animal's infected, it starts oozing out of its mouth.
02:16:47.000 Like this...
02:16:48.000 See if you can find pictures of it.
02:16:49.000 It's really gross.
02:16:50.000 They probably lose the...
02:16:52.000 Because prion disease...
02:16:53.000 Stan Prusiner won the Nobel for prions.
02:16:55.000 No one believed him, by the way, that this prion thing existed.
02:16:57.000 What year was this?
02:16:58.000 Oh, this was, gosh...
02:17:01.000 2000s.
02:17:02.000 You know, people usually get the prize a little bit later.
02:17:04.000 It takes a while.
02:17:05.000 But they knew about mad cow before that, right?
02:17:07.000 Yeah, but the Swedes take their time making a decision.
02:17:10.000 The Nobel Prize is never controversial who wins it.
02:17:12.000 It's often controversial who doesn't.
02:17:14.000 But who wins it, it's always, at least in the sciences, it's always an absolute slam dunk.
02:17:20.000 Interesting.
02:17:20.000 The people get ruled out, cry about it for years, you know.
02:17:23.000 But, you know.
02:17:24.000 In any event, Proustiner was talking about prions and basically the neurons degenerate.
02:17:29.000 They kill themselves.
02:17:30.000 So, nasty stuff hunters find on and in their deer, oozing green gunk, huge warts, parasitic insects.
02:17:37.000 The green gunk is what you have to look out for.
02:17:44.000 Those are just ticks and stuff.
02:17:45.000 See if you can find CWD oozing deer.
02:17:53.000 Yeah, that's what it looks like.
02:17:54.000 See that deer?
02:17:54.000 Swollen tongue.
02:17:55.000 Yeah, they start dripping CWD, that's blue tongue, I guess that's a different disease.
02:18:01.000 They start dripping this CWD out of their mouth and nose, and it gets into the tree, see if I can find some other versions of it.
02:18:10.000 It gets into the plants, and when it gets into the plants, it actually, I don't want to fuck this up, but I think it actually gets into the DNA of the plants.
02:18:22.000 And somehow or another, it stays in those plants.
02:18:25.000 Like, it has a really long fucking half-life.
02:18:28.000 And these new animals come along, and they can eat the plant, and then get CWD from it.
02:18:34.000 So, the odds are, and these things, they...
02:18:38.000 Deer travel, right?
02:18:40.000 They travel for miles, and so they're traveling, and they're spraying this oozy shit out of their mouth, and it's getting onto these other plants, and then other deer coming along and getting it and doing the same thing and spreading it, and it's now all through most of the country,
02:18:55.000 and it's jumped from...
02:18:57.000 It's now they found it in mule deer, and I believe they may have found it in elk.
02:19:03.000 I'm pretty sure there's some instances of elk that have CWD as well.
02:19:07.000 Elk are far, they roam far longer distances.
02:19:11.000 I'm so naive.
02:19:12.000 Elk is a much larger animal.
02:19:14.000 Much, much larger.
02:19:15.000 Yeah, it's one of the largest of the deer species.
02:19:17.000 Also good eating.
02:19:18.000 Amazing.
02:19:19.000 Yeah, so deer are good eating.
02:19:20.000 Elk is my favorite.
02:19:21.000 Elk is my all-time favorite.
02:19:23.000 But moose is amazing too.
02:19:25.000 And moose, they're the biggest of the big.
02:19:27.000 And that's also that thing that's directly related to cold weather, right?
02:19:31.000 The cold weather mammals are much larger mammals because they have to maintain body temperature.
02:19:36.000 So deer, like a white-tailed deer from Saskatchewan, where it's really fucking cold, is a huge animal.
02:19:43.000 That could be like 300 pounds.
02:19:45.000 Whereas a white-tailed deer in Texas, they're little tiny guys.
02:19:47.000 If you see them around, like I see them in my neighborhood all the time, they're very small.
02:19:51.000 Like 150 pounds is a big one.
02:19:53.000 Can coyote get a deer out here?
02:19:54.000 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:19:55.000 A little pack of coyotes.
02:19:56.000 Yeah.
02:19:56.000 Yeah, they get them.
02:19:57.000 They bite their legs.
02:19:58.000 They take their legs out from under them.
02:20:00.000 That's the same thing wolves do.
02:20:01.000 They snatch their legs out.
02:20:03.000 Brutal.
02:20:04.000 Yeah, and there's a particularly nasty type of coyote that lives in B.C. that they took out a woman in, I want to say it was like 2007 or something like that, a young singer.
02:20:17.000 She was a very promising singer, and she was apparently really talented, and she went for a walk, and a pack of coyotes ate her.
02:20:25.000 Goodness.
02:20:25.000 I mean, I think the mountain lion thing is common up in Northern California.
02:20:29.000 Yeah.
02:20:29.000 I've spent a lot of time recently in Topanga Canyon.
02:20:31.000 I've been trying to write there, and you see them cruise through every once in a while.
02:20:35.000 Oh, yeah.
02:20:35.000 They're fucking, they're gross.
02:20:37.000 They are.
02:20:37.000 Yeah.
02:20:38.000 They are big animals.
02:20:39.000 I never understood.
02:20:40.000 They're beautiful.
02:20:40.000 They're beautiful.
02:20:41.000 They are beautiful.
02:20:41.000 They just scare the shit out of me because they kill hikers every now and then.
02:20:44.000 Every once in a while a video will come up of a kid where one's tracking him for a long period of time.
02:20:48.000 Yeah, you've seen the one where the mama mountain lion's running at the guy like this?
02:20:53.000 Have you seen that one?
02:20:54.000 Oh, you need to see this one because it'll freak you out.
02:20:57.000 Because apparently the mama was walking with her cubs and this guy was on this trail and she crossed and he's like talking because he filmed it.
02:21:06.000 He's like, whoa, what is this?
02:21:07.000 And then the cat sees him and starts walking towards him.
02:21:11.000 He's like, fuck off, get out of here, get out of here.
02:21:13.000 And she's like...
02:21:13.000 I'm just running out.
02:21:15.000 This is it.
02:21:15.000 Watch this.
02:21:16.000 Give me some volume because it's crazy volume.
02:21:23.000 Yeah, I mean he's backing up too.
02:21:31.000 And it's wild.
02:21:34.000 I don't want that experience.
02:21:36.000 It keeps going too.
02:21:38.000 He's not getting away.
02:21:39.000 Gosh, fuck, where's my gun?
02:21:43.000 Perfect thing to say.
02:21:45.000 I mean, I'm a big fan of mountain lions.
02:21:47.000 I love them.
02:21:48.000 I'm glad they're real.
02:21:49.000 But fuck being around them.
02:21:51.000 Because they will kill people.
02:21:52.000 They killed, I mean, in one year, they killed one guy in Seattle and one guy in Oregon.
02:21:58.000 And it was really, it's really rare.
02:22:01.000 They come down into the suburbs occasionally.
02:22:03.000 I think one person was a hiker and one person maybe was a biker.
02:22:08.000 I think they were mountain biking.
02:22:09.000 I think it's also they're like regular cats where something goes by them fast.
02:22:13.000 They're like, come here, give me that.
02:22:14.000 It's that reflex.
02:22:15.000 It's these ancient circuits.
02:22:18.000 There's not a lot of thought process.
02:22:21.000 A bunch of switches get flipped and in a certain order.
02:22:23.000 It's happening.
02:22:24.000 It's weird that we try to manage that world, you know, to manage the world of animals.
02:22:31.000 And we have this, like, really, these rigid ideas about what should and shouldn't exist and how we should and shouldn't do it.
02:22:38.000 And, you know, we should be able to keep these things alive and put them in a zoo.
02:22:42.000 And we're doing it for their own good.
02:22:43.000 And, like, man, I was driving limos once.
02:22:48.000 I think that was when I was doing something.
02:22:50.000 I was driving home and there was a zoo.
02:22:54.000 It was in Massachusetts.
02:22:55.000 Actually, I probably wasn't driving limos.
02:22:57.000 I was probably just driving.
02:22:58.000 But this was around the same time, because I remember I thought about this for fucking weeks.
02:23:05.000 Still, to this day, I think about it.
02:23:06.000 And I pulled into this shitty little zoo somewhere in Massachusetts, and there was a polar bear.
02:23:10.000 And the polar bear was in a room about as big as this room.
02:23:13.000 And he just wandered, maybe twice as big as this room, I don't want to lie, but it wasn't big.
02:23:17.000 That's torture.
02:23:17.000 And he was just wandering around in circles, just like a crazy person.
02:23:21.000 Like someone who's just completely lost their mind, just pacing, going around in circles.
02:23:25.000 And I'll never forget it.
02:23:25.000 I just stood there.
02:23:26.000 That's the only thing I saw in the whole zoo.
02:23:28.000 I watched that polar bear and I'm like, I'm getting the fuck out of here.
02:23:30.000 I'm not doing this.
02:23:31.000 But watching that polar bear made me think, what the fuck is a zoo?
02:23:37.000 What are we doing?
02:23:38.000 Put that goddamn thing back.
02:23:41.000 Find where that thing belongs.
02:23:43.000 It's probably captive its whole life, unfortunately, right?
02:23:45.000 Probably.
02:23:47.000 Find where the fuck that thing's supposed to be and let it go.
02:23:50.000 Just leave it alone.
02:23:51.000 Yeah, large carnivores in zoos, and even the elephants.
02:23:53.000 To me, it just breaks my heart.
02:23:56.000 It's awful.
02:23:57.000 All of it's awful.
02:23:58.000 All of it's awful.
02:23:58.000 The only thing that I had to joke about this, too.
02:24:00.000 The only thing that does bother me is giraffes.
02:24:02.000 They seem pretty happy.
02:24:04.000 Well, they're herbivores.
02:24:05.000 They just want tall trees to grow.
02:24:06.000 Well, they let little babies feed them.
02:24:08.000 I have all these videos of my kids feeding giraffes at the zoo.
02:24:11.000 The joke was they're like, another day with no lions.
02:24:13.000 And they're just kind of strutting around.
02:24:15.000 That's a happy life.
02:24:16.000 They don't seem to give a shit about the zoo.
02:24:18.000 They have a good time there.
02:24:19.000 But that's it.
02:24:20.000 The zoo should be giraffes.
02:24:22.000 A giraffe has a tiny brain, by the way.
02:24:24.000 Oh, I'm sure.
02:24:24.000 The thing is so small.
02:24:25.000 It's unbelievable.
02:24:26.000 Given its body size, it's just absolutely minuscule.
02:24:30.000 They fight the weirdest way, right?
02:24:32.000 I don't know how they fight.
02:24:33.000 Oh, you don't know?
02:24:34.000 No.
02:24:34.000 Oh, you need to see this.
02:24:35.000 I can't even imagine they do fight.
02:24:36.000 Oh, my God.
02:24:36.000 They fight to the death.
02:24:38.000 They fight to the death using their necks.
02:24:40.000 They whip their neck like a whip.
02:24:42.000 Those little things that they have and those little stupid horns that they have, those little stupid horns are their weapons.
02:24:48.000 Watch this.
02:24:49.000 They whip each other.
02:24:51.000 Wow.
02:24:53.000 Look at that.
02:24:53.000 See?
02:24:54.000 They whip each other and they try to stab each other with those stupid horns on the top of their head.
02:24:58.000 That's what those things are for.
02:24:59.000 They don't look very effective.
02:25:00.000 Oh, it's terrible hunting.
02:25:01.000 But look how they do it.
02:25:02.000 They're like drunk swinging at a bar.
02:25:05.000 But one guy caught that guy right there.
02:25:07.000 They're trying to discourage each other.
02:25:08.000 That's what they're trying to do.
02:25:09.000 And here's another thing.
02:25:10.000 The darker patterns, when the patterns are deeper and darker, that's generally the older, dominant male.
02:25:18.000 Yeah, it looks more like an attempt than a success of any kind.
02:25:21.000 It's stupid.
02:25:22.000 There's a terrible way of One of these giraffes should learn jujitsu.
02:25:26.000 Or leg kicks.
02:25:27.000 They should learn some leg kicks.
02:25:28.000 Just take them out of the legs, man.
02:25:30.000 Just while this guy's trying to hit you with that stupid neck, just karate chop his legs.
02:25:37.000 It is literally one of the dumbest things in all of nature.
02:25:40.000 They're beautiful animals.
02:25:41.000 Their markings are absolutely striking.
02:25:43.000 How do they die?
02:25:44.000 One wins and breaks the neck and they just leave it?
02:25:46.000 Yeah, they definitely do that sometimes.
02:25:47.000 Oh, wow.
02:25:47.000 Oh, someone went down.
02:25:49.000 He fucked up.
02:25:50.000 What happened?
02:25:50.000 I think he just missed.
02:25:51.000 Oh, they're slow-mo.
02:25:52.000 Yeah, he missed.
02:25:52.000 Look at him.
02:25:54.000 That's basically, he broke his legs.
02:25:56.000 Conor McGregor and Dustin Poirier.
02:25:58.000 Yeah, they eat them too.
02:26:00.000 People hunt giraffes and it's one of those weird things where people don't want to be photographed with giraffes because people come after you.
02:26:07.000 Because if you're standing there with a rifle with a giraffe down, oh my god.
02:26:12.000 Yeah, we think of them as very placid.
02:26:13.000 Yes, and they are.
02:26:14.000 Well, this is like the obsession with pandas.
02:26:17.000 I find this amazing.
02:26:19.000 Look, I have nothing against pandas per se, but it gets me a little irritated how we elevate the panda.
02:26:24.000 They are rapists.
02:26:25.000 We elevate the panda as the only animal that we care about.
02:26:29.000 It's conservation.
02:26:30.000 Publicly, that seems to be the case.
02:26:32.000 Everyone loves pandas.
02:26:33.000 But there are all these other incredible animals, as you've pointed out.
02:26:36.000 But the panda gets a disproportionate amount of love and praise.
02:26:39.000 Well, especially if you see their mating habits.
02:26:42.000 They're ruthless little fuckers.
02:26:44.000 You ever see pandas go after each other?
02:26:46.000 Oh my God.
02:26:48.000 I don't know if you could Google panda rape without getting investigated by the FBI, but give it a shot.
02:26:55.000 We're in Texas.
02:26:56.000 They're very aggressive and they're nasty to each other.
02:27:01.000 Like this idea that they're these cute little fluff balls.
02:27:03.000 That's always drove me crazy about bears in general.
02:27:06.000 Like people get mad at people shoot bears.
02:27:08.000 Like don't kill bears.
02:27:10.000 Like listen to me.
02:27:11.000 First of all, if you don't shoot bears, you're going to have bears everywhere because bears don't have any natural predators other than other bears.
02:27:19.000 And if you think you like bears, you're not going to like bears if they eat your family because that's what they'll do because bears have been eating people since the beginning of time.
02:27:27.000 Well, and if there are sufficient numbers, I mean, actually, you might find this interesting.
02:27:30.000 I was researching taste recently, the sense of taste, and there are these five senses, right?
02:27:34.000 Salty, sweet, da-da-da.
02:27:35.000 We have the umami, the savory receptor.
02:27:38.000 That's what gives like that really nice taste of meat.
02:27:40.000 It's actually cueing the brain and the gut of the presence of amino acids, which is one of the most important things to ingest, amino acids.
02:27:47.000 Lions and bears and carnivores have 5,000 times the density of umami receptors in their mouth, but they have, except for the panda bear, Which has 5,000 times more sweet receptors.
02:28:01.000 So your dog actually doesn't have sweet receptors in its mouth.
02:28:05.000 It only has umami receptors.
02:28:06.000 So it can taste salty, it can taste sour, but it has the taste of meat for a bear.
02:28:14.000 This is definitely the other kind of mountain.
02:28:16.000 That's just mating.
02:28:17.000 That seems pretty normal.
02:28:18.000 Honestly, googling what you did, there's a Simpsons scene apparently, and all I'm getting is Homer Simpson and panda stuff.
02:28:24.000 Well, this is just regular old panda sex.
02:28:27.000 A mouth breather.
02:28:27.000 Once a year, with females only able to conceive.
02:28:30.000 That's another interesting thing about animals, is that they have seasons where they breed, right?
02:28:36.000 That's regular.
02:28:37.000 Okay, they're duking it out.
02:28:39.000 Yeah, they're fucking vicious.
02:28:40.000 Here you go.
02:28:41.000 This is a good example.
02:28:42.000 They're ruthless to each other.
02:28:46.000 Two wild pandas fighting for mating rights.
02:28:49.000 Either they're fighting to mate or they're fighting for mating rights.
02:28:52.000 But they're not what we want to think about.
02:28:55.000 They're bears!
02:28:56.000 They're kind of bear.
02:28:57.000 The seasonal breeding thing is interesting.
02:29:01.000 So light turns on this...
02:29:04.000 Testosterone and dopamine system.
02:29:06.000 Dopamine more than a molecule of reward is a molecule of motivation and drive.
02:29:11.000 It makes you want to do more of whatever it is that led to more dopamine.
02:29:13.000 Oh, interesting.
02:29:14.000 So light, viewing sunlight, actually triggers the release of dopamine.
02:29:19.000 So that's why it feels good on a sunny day.
02:29:20.000 That's right.
02:29:21.000 So seasonally breeding, right?
02:29:23.000 So seasonally breeding animals, there's more light, more dopamine, more testosterone, they mate.
02:29:27.000 Days get shorter, less dopamine, less testosterone and estrogen, and they don't mate.
02:29:31.000 But the other thing that's really fascinating is that in animals that during the winter, their coat is white, and in the summer and spring months, their coat is dark.
02:29:40.000 Dopamine has a precursor.
02:29:42.000 It's a molecule called tyrosinase.
02:29:44.000 Anytime you see ASE, that's an enzyme, the tyrosinase molecule is actually what causes pigmentation.
02:29:49.000 So sunlight causes the pellage, the color of the fur to go dark because of dopamine.
02:29:56.000 Wow.
02:29:57.000 Yeah.
02:29:57.000 And so people who are albinos or animals that are albinos, it's because they have a mutation in this tyrosinase.
02:30:03.000 So with the white, red eyes, typically, not always red eyes, but often red eyes, white fur, They can't actually take sunlight and convert it into melanin.
02:30:15.000 Basically it goes sunlight and then there's a bunch of other biochemical steps and melanin.
02:30:18.000 So there's this beautiful relationship between light, dopamine, testosterone, mating, hair color, right?
02:30:25.000 And temperature, because in long days, generally it's warmer than in short days where it's cooler.
02:30:30.000 So light and temperature are kind of pushing on a bunch of physiological mechanisms to make some animals want to breed at particular times of year.
02:30:38.000 And the break on breeding is what we talked about earlier is melatonin.
02:30:42.000 When there's very little light, you get a lot more melatonin and it shuts down dopamine.
02:30:46.000 It shuts down breeding.
02:30:48.000 It shuts.
02:30:49.000 So melatonin, you want it a little bit, but you don't want too much of it.
02:30:53.000 And when you're saying that light makes the brain produce dopamine, I wonder if there's long periods of rain and a lack of light if then once you hit sunlight you have more dopamine.
02:31:08.000 Oh yeah.
02:31:08.000 Is that what it is?
02:31:09.000 This is, I mean, if you go to Scandinavia, I have a relative, my stepmom is Danish.
02:31:14.000 You go to Scandinavia, you go to Denmark in the winter, and everyone is, some people are resilient too, but most people are a little bit, I'm not gonna say clinically depressed, but everything is depressed.
02:31:23.000 It's darker, it's darker.
02:31:25.000 People get their head down.
02:31:26.000 It's cold.
02:31:26.000 Days are extremely short.
02:31:28.000 The spring hits.
02:31:30.000 And literally, people start going, or at least they did when I was in college, you know, like women and men start going topless in the sun, in the parks.
02:31:36.000 People are definitely mating a lot more than they are in the winter months.
02:31:40.000 Even though they're drinking more alcohol in the winter months, for sure, they're mating a lot more.
02:31:44.000 People get spring fever.
02:31:46.000 Spring fever has a biological basis.
02:31:48.000 And near the equator, like the Brazilians, they're like that all year long.
02:31:52.000 I have a lot of Brazilian friends, so I realize they're Yeah, I do as well.
02:31:55.000 I was thinking about this because I went to Prince of Wales Island, which is, I think, the rainiest spot in North America.
02:32:03.000 And we were there for a week.
02:32:05.000 It was crazy how much it rained.
02:32:06.000 It rained every single day, except for a few hours.
02:32:09.000 We were able to start a campfire one day.
02:32:11.000 When I came back, I came back to LA, and of course it was sunny, because it's always sunny in LA, and I called my friend up, I go, dude, I don't know what's going on, I've never been happier in my life.
02:32:19.000 Exactly.
02:32:19.000 That's a dopamine surge.
02:32:21.000 Yeah, it was a surge, like I was on a crazy drug.
02:32:24.000 I'm like, if you could keep this high all the time, like what a wonderful world it would be.
02:32:29.000 Well, there's another hormone that's super cool that people are now abusing, unfortunately, which is called a melanocyte-stimulating hormone.
02:32:37.000 A melanocyte is a kind of cell, basically, that creates pigmentation in the body, makes you go tan.
02:32:43.000 And melanocyte-stimulating hormone is in the pituitary, and when you get sunlight, you release this melanocyte-stimulating hormone.
02:32:50.000 It makes your skin tan from the...
02:32:51.000 It actually causes pigmentation, not by tanning because it burned your skin a little bit, browning you.
02:32:56.000 You're actually, the melanocytes are darkening your skin from the inside.
02:33:00.000 Does it protect you from the sun as well?
02:33:02.000 It does.
02:33:02.000 It does.
02:33:03.000 So you can take this melanocyte, achieve a tan?
02:33:05.000 Well, so melanocyte stimulating hormone does two things.
02:33:08.000 It causes pigmentation and it reduces appetite.
02:33:11.000 So who are the two people?
02:33:12.000 What's the one group on this planet of people that want to be tan and reduce their appetite?
02:33:16.000 Hose.
02:33:17.000 Bodybuilding.
02:33:22.000 That's what I was thinking too, to be honest with you though.
02:33:26.000 Not bodybuilders.
02:33:28.000 Insta-hoes.
02:33:29.000 Come on, man.
02:33:31.000 Bodybuilders take something called, you know, there's this whole world of peptides that we should, you know, maybe that the peptide world is blowing up.
02:33:39.000 I would love to talk to you about peptides.
02:33:40.000 Let's get into that next.
02:33:41.000 So melanocyte stimulating hormone has a name.
02:33:44.000 There's a peptide that's all called melanotan.
02:33:46.000 Melanotan has three major effects, which is why people are now taking it slash abusing it, etc.
02:33:52.000 Which is it makes you tan.
02:33:53.000 You don't have to stay in the sun.
02:33:54.000 It just because it mimics this pathway makes you tan.
02:33:57.000 It reduces your appetite and it gives people almost hair trigger erections that last hours.
02:34:04.000 Cut to me three weeks from now.
02:34:10.000 So you're talking about this effect, or I talked about this effect in Scandinavia, of sunlight comes out, people have dopamine, they have also melanocyte stimulating hormone, they're not as hungry, they wanna have sex a lot, that's MSH, alpha MSH is the molecule.
02:34:24.000 You can buy this stuff?
02:34:25.000 People buy it.
02:34:26.000 Where do they buy it?
02:34:27.000 Well, okay, so now we're getting into...
02:34:29.000 Look at these people.
02:34:30.000 They're taking it?
02:34:31.000 What's going on with her face, though?
02:34:32.000 That's fake tan, bro.
02:34:33.000 She's got chocolate body.
02:34:34.000 I am definitely not suggesting people play around with these things.
02:34:38.000 Well, I am, because I want to hear your stories.
02:34:41.000 So that's what these guys are taking?
02:34:45.000 Sunless tanning.
02:34:46.000 Nasal spray.
02:34:48.000 Wow!
02:34:50.000 So he's probably doing this spray, but yeah, people, it can bypass the blood-brain barrier through the nose.
02:34:54.000 Because, you know, the neurons of your olfactory bulb are part of your brain, they sit right here.
02:34:58.000 And they're just getting crazy boners, too.
02:35:00.000 That's why he's got that piece of paper over his wood.
02:35:01.000 Look at the second picture.
02:35:03.000 He's got the paper forward and right above the crotch.
02:35:06.000 Yeah, I don't want to push people towards any particular sites because I... That's fine, but I will.
02:35:11.000 You tell me what to say.
02:35:12.000 So, I've never...
02:35:14.000 Oh, man.
02:35:20.000 So, peptides are very interesting.
02:35:22.000 Oh, you got off the melanocytes real quick.
02:35:24.000 I see.
02:35:25.000 No, so melanocytes are a peptide.
02:35:26.000 What's the negative side effects of this stuff?
02:35:28.000 I don't know.
02:35:29.000 Nobody really knows.
02:35:30.000 No negative side effects?
02:35:31.000 Well...
02:35:31.000 How about that?
02:35:32.000 One of the smartest people I know says, go for it.
02:35:36.000 So, no side effects, in quotes, Andrew Huberman.
02:35:39.000 No.
02:35:39.000 Next Instagram ad.
02:35:40.000 There's going to be a picture of you with a stethoscope on.
02:35:42.000 You don't even have one.
02:35:43.000 They'll Photoshop your head on a doctor, some scrawny-ass doctor, too.
02:35:46.000 I'm not putting it online, but this might not be real as a potential side effect.
02:35:49.000 It's from Reddit, so I don't know.
02:35:51.000 Reddit user claimed to inject themselves with melanin 2 to get a dark tan.
02:35:55.000 Yes.
02:35:55.000 What?
02:35:56.000 He went too far.
02:35:57.000 Oh my god, is that real?
02:35:59.000 That's part of like, it could just be that guy putting people on Reddit to get...
02:36:02.000 Well, that would be a real problem with some of these crackpots who think they're transracial.
02:36:06.000 Well, they take...
02:36:07.000 Right?
02:36:08.000 Well, they're taking...
02:36:09.000 He's going on something on his lips, too.
02:36:10.000 So no one really knows how much of this stuff to take.
02:36:12.000 That's the issue.
02:36:12.000 It's all worked out by these, you know...
02:36:15.000 Bodybuilding communities.
02:36:16.000 Reddit.
02:36:17.000 Subthreads.
02:36:17.000 Exactly.
02:36:18.000 The internet.
02:36:19.000 So what's incredible is, so Melana Tent, there are sites online where people can just look for peptides and you can buy these things.
02:36:26.000 And it will say, not for use in animals or humans.
02:36:29.000 But people are buying them and they're injecting them.
02:36:31.000 Let's be honest.
02:36:32.000 But what is it used for then?
02:36:33.000 It's not for use in animals or humans.
02:36:35.000 Exactly.
02:36:36.000 And so I've definitely, I've never taken...
02:36:38.000 Whoa!
02:36:39.000 Is that real?
02:36:40.000 White German model claims she's well on her way to becoming a black girl now that she's undergone a series of tanning injections to darken her skin and somehow has convinced an African hairdresser to give her black textured hair.
02:36:54.000 That is crazy!
02:36:55.000 Is that real?
02:36:57.000 Yeah, it also could be a tabloid, but I feel like I saw this a couple years ago.
02:37:01.000 Well, melanotin is darkening the skin from the inside.
02:37:03.000 I have vitiligo, so I have these spots.
02:37:06.000 You can see it on my knuckles.
02:37:07.000 Oh, I didn't notice that.
02:37:08.000 Yeah.
02:37:09.000 Luckily, I'm a white guy for this, because if you're a black person, it's very...
02:37:13.000 Like, if I had really dark skin, you could see it very clearly.
02:37:15.000 When did that start?
02:37:18.000 I really didn't see it until I was in my 20s.
02:37:21.000 And I arrested it.
02:37:24.000 I had it for quite a while and then it stopped advancing because of vitamins initially.
02:37:31.000 That was the big thing.
02:37:32.000 And then I started doing UVB treatments and a bunch of different things.
02:37:37.000 Now, it just doesn't get worse, but it doesn't get any better either.
02:37:40.000 And one thing that actually did help it, which is odd, because I only did it for a month, was the carnivore diet.
02:37:46.000 The carnivore diet, I started noticing some of my white spots were filling in.
02:37:51.000 That could be downstream of dopamine.
02:37:53.000 And not everything leads back to dopamine, but many things do.
02:37:58.000 Because...
02:37:59.000 Things like dopamine are basically a kind of a trigger for a menu of a bunch of other things, of testosterone or estrogen, primarily in females, but also for motivation, for sexual behavior, for drive, for tan, you know, Pigmentation and these kinds of things.
02:38:15.000 It sets off a whole program.
02:38:18.000 You were asking about peptides.
02:38:20.000 But while I'm asking about this, do you think that shit would work with my vitiligo?
02:38:25.000 I've never even heard of that.
02:38:25.000 Well, the issue is that it would make every melanocyte in your body turn on more melanin.
02:38:31.000 So you would get darker everywhere.
02:38:33.000 I don't have melanin.
02:38:34.000 You might not have melanocytes there.
02:38:37.000 I don't know much about vitiligo.
02:38:38.000 It's an autoimmune issue.
02:38:40.000 I can ask a colleague.
02:38:41.000 I mean, we have great people in dermatology at Stanford.
02:38:43.000 They would know.
02:38:44.000 Okay.
02:38:44.000 Please do.
02:38:45.000 I will.
02:38:45.000 We'll talk soon.
02:38:46.000 Yeah.
02:38:47.000 So anyway, more about peptides.
02:38:49.000 Yeah.
02:38:49.000 So peptides are getting a lot of interest now.
02:38:51.000 Yeah.
02:38:51.000 BPC-157 is all the rage.
02:38:53.000 It is.
02:38:54.000 So peptides are just small strings of amino acids.
02:38:57.000 They can act as hormones.
02:38:59.000 So a hormone is a molecule that would release in one point in the body and goes and acts on a bunch of other areas of the body.
02:39:04.000 There's like testosterone doesn't do one thing.
02:39:06.000 It does many, many things.
02:39:07.000 So it acts kind of, as we say, systemically.
02:39:10.000 Peptides can act as hormones, so melanotan obviously changes the skin, changes libido, all sorts of things.
02:39:17.000 There are peptides like GP157, gastric peptide 157. This is a peptide that is naturally made by the body, but people have synthesized and turned into a compound that they take and inject, that does seem to have the ability to repair damaged tissues of various kinds.
02:39:34.000 It mimics some of the downstream effects of growth hormone.
02:39:38.000 So this is actually, I actually trained with him once, although he with far more weight than I, this guy, Ryan Crowley, who tore his pack recently, this very dramatic Instagram video where you see him doing an incline press with like 515 and it rips off the bone.
02:39:52.000 Now I'm not going to say whether or not Ryan's using GP157 or not, but I don't think there's anyone needs to do a Natty or Not video on him.
02:40:00.000 Or maybe they do.
02:40:01.000 Doesn't matter.
02:40:02.000 The point is that things like GP157 definitely do accelerate the healing of an injury.
02:40:10.000 And there's no question about that.
02:40:12.000 That's interesting because I talked to a doctor and he was trying to tell me that it didn't work.
02:40:15.000 And he was saying if you even inject saline into an area, it will alleviate some pain.
02:40:21.000 And I was like, I don't think you're right.
02:40:23.000 Yeah, but this is like the TRT discussion or the steroids conversation 20 years ago where people say, do they really work?
02:40:29.000 This guy was very incredulous.
02:40:31.000 When I was listening to this guy talk about it, I was like, listen, I've used it myself.
02:40:35.000 I had a tendinitis in my elbow that I just could not fix.
02:40:39.000 I started using BPC-157.
02:40:40.000 It was gone in two weeks.
02:40:42.000 A lot of people are using GP-157.
02:40:44.000 What is the difference between BPC-157?
02:40:45.000 BPC and GP157 is the same thing?
02:40:47.000 BPC is a different, I think it's either a different string of amino acids, excuse me, or something related.
02:40:54.000 You know, the gut has a bunch of stuff that it secretes that tells the rest of the body about health status.
02:41:00.000 This is why the gut microbiome is so critical.
02:41:03.000 As a not unrelated aside, I have a colleague upstairs from my lab at Stanford, Justin Sonnenberg, who's shown that the ingestion of two or three servings of fermented food per day It dramatically decreases the levels of interleukin-6, these inflammatory cytokines.
02:41:18.000 Increases levels of interleukin-10.
02:41:20.000 So like kombucha?
02:41:22.000 Kombucha, kimchi.
02:41:23.000 There's actually, it sounds disgusting, I've never tried, but fermented cottage cheese is out there.
02:41:28.000 In Iceland, they eat the fermented shark.
02:41:30.000 Those people are animals.
02:41:30.000 Those people are different.
02:41:33.000 They are different.
02:41:34.000 I've been eating fermented cabbage recently.
02:41:36.000 Perfect.
02:41:36.000 I got it from a grocery store.
02:41:38.000 I was like, this stuff is good.
02:41:38.000 It's weird.
02:41:39.000 The Sonnenberg lab published a paper in Cell, another one of these premier journals, super, super stringent journal, today showing that if you ingest two or three servings of these fermented foods, basically what you do is you create an acidity in the gut that's perfect for the anti-inflammatory environment.
02:41:59.000 Or I shouldn't say it's perfect.
02:42:00.000 It's ideal.
02:42:01.000 It pushes you in the right direction.
02:42:03.000 And GP157 and these other peptides are things that when the gut is happy, the body starts secreting these things that allow you to heal faster.
02:42:10.000 This is why when people are like, when they're sick in a hospital or they can't move, they get sores that turn into massive infections, right?
02:42:17.000 And it's not just because hospitals have a lot of infection.
02:42:20.000 It's because when we're sedentary, the gut suffers.
02:42:23.000 When we're eating the kind of garbage they feed you in most hospitals, the gut suffers.
02:42:27.000 And then the whole system crashes.
02:42:28.000 Which is so crazy that they're doing this in hospitals, right?
02:42:32.000 Hospital cafeterias are among the worst food in the world.
02:42:36.000 Which is makes no sense.
02:42:37.000 It's so crazy It really is so crazy because and also the amount of doctors that dismiss nutrition as a Viable way to stay healthy.
02:42:46.000 Well look at them.
02:42:47.000 Yeah, I mean this is why this is why 2020 to me has changed everything because I look I work alongside many doctors I train and teach medical students and I have great reverence and respect for the field of medicine however It's clear that most places are not updating the training to stay modern.
02:43:04.000 This is a great thing about Stanford.
02:43:06.000 You have people, the scientists and the physicians talk.
02:43:08.000 And so, and there are other places too, but I think that this kind of communication, when that happens, then the physicians learn about all the modern studies.
02:43:16.000 I mean, that's why, God forbid, you have to go to a hospital, try and go to a hospital that's related to a research institution because they hear all the latest.
02:43:23.000 Now with BPC 157 or GP 157, whichever one is most effective, is there one more effective than the other?
02:43:29.000 Not that I'm aware of.
02:43:30.000 GP 157 is the one that I hear more athletes and various other communities who need to repair injuries taking.
02:43:37.000 Now, are they taking it locally, or are they taking it subcutaneously?
02:43:41.000 So, you take it systemically, but people have this thing, just like with testosterone, people, it acts systemically, but people, like, if they want to repair a tissue, they'll inject locally, and there are local effects of these hormones and these peptides.
02:43:53.000 So there's some benefit to injecting it locally?
02:43:56.000 Perhaps.
02:43:57.000 Enough so that it's not going to hurt you because it's also going to be systemic, right?
02:44:01.000 Higher concentrations delivered to a particular area, if it has to be distributed systemically, you have receptors everywhere, putting it locally can definitely enhance the effect.
02:44:11.000 So like similar to the way they treat stem cells, like stem cells, they shoot it locally or you can get an IV. Yeah.
02:44:17.000 And I should say the stem cell therapies are very controversial because the academic community and the clinics that are doing these in various places, they haven't joined forces.
02:44:26.000 I'm all for communication.
02:44:28.000 I'm not like for or against.
02:44:31.000 I'm all for more research and let people talk.
02:44:33.000 Have you ever talked to Dr. Neil Reardon?
02:44:35.000 Dr. Neil Reardon is a guy who, he's written many books on stem cells.
02:44:41.000 He's got peer-reviewed papers on it.
02:44:43.000 And he runs a clinic out of Panama.
02:44:46.000 And, you know, we were doing the BioAccelerator guys.
02:44:49.000 Oh yeah, Danny and those guys were there.
02:44:50.000 He has a similar setup down in Panama.
02:44:54.000 And I actually sent my mom down there.
02:44:55.000 Because my mom had a really badly injured knee and they were trying to have a knee replacement.
02:45:00.000 I sent her down there and nothing for six months.
02:45:03.000 She was like, well, it still hurts.
02:45:04.000 It still hurts.
02:45:05.000 Six months later, all of a sudden the pain went away.
02:45:07.000 Amazing.
02:45:07.000 And then eight months later, she's like, I can walk with no pain.
02:45:10.000 This is crazy.
02:45:11.000 And Mel Gibson sent his dad down there when his dad was 92. When he was 100, he was getting boners, which Mel wanted to tell us about for whatever reason.
02:45:20.000 Melanotin.
02:45:21.000 Maybe.
02:45:21.000 Maybe.
02:45:22.000 But Mel also had them.
02:45:23.000 I had some stem cells in Santa Monica shot into my shoulder, or maybe, no, this was Vegas.
02:45:31.000 And this was Dr. Roddy McGee did some stuff in Vegas, and then we did an MRI eight months later, I believe it was, and I had a full-length tear in my rotator cuff.
02:45:42.000 It was gone.
02:45:43.000 Amazing.
02:45:43.000 The tear just healed up.
02:45:45.000 Yeah.
02:45:45.000 I mean, that kind of experience will shift somebody's view of these things for sure.
02:45:50.000 For mine, because they were telling me that I had to get surgery.
02:45:53.000 I went to a doctor and the doctor was doing all these tests on it.
02:45:56.000 He was like, lift here, press against this, press.
02:45:58.000 And he goes, well, he goes like, you got a lot of stability there because it's pretty strong.
02:46:02.000 You got a lot of muscle around it.
02:46:03.000 He goes, but you're going to have to have surgery.
02:46:05.000 Like you're just putting off the inevitable.
02:46:06.000 I'm like, huh, okay.
02:46:08.000 And so I went to a different doctor.
02:46:11.000 This guy, well, Dr. Davidson out of the UFC sent me to this guy, Dr. Roddy McGee, and he shot me full of stems.
02:46:19.000 And Roddy's been on the podcast before as well.
02:46:20.000 He's very careful.
02:46:21.000 He's a funny podcast guest.
02:46:23.000 Very careful because, you know, I like to get silly and say a lot of wild shit.
02:46:26.000 He's very careful to keep me on track.
02:46:29.000 He's legit.
02:46:30.000 And we did this MRI, like whatever it was, I believe it was eight months later.
02:46:35.000 And he was like, this is...
02:46:37.000 Absolutely insane.
02:46:37.000 Like, I've never seen this before.
02:46:39.000 I've never seen a rotator cuff tear, full-length rotator cuff tear, go away.
02:46:43.000 Well, surgeons like to cut.
02:46:45.000 No problem now.
02:46:46.000 Like, I do everything.
02:46:48.000 I mean, I'm doing kettlebell swings and presses with 70 pounds in each hand, and I have no problem.
02:46:53.000 Like, I'm not in pain.
02:46:55.000 I have full function.
02:46:56.000 I sleep on it.
02:46:58.000 It doesn't bother me.
02:46:59.000 It's crazy.
02:47:00.000 And I also got a series of injections while I was in Texas from this company, Ways to Well.
02:47:07.000 And just, it's remarkable.
02:47:09.000 Stem cells are remarkable.
02:47:10.000 And I just think there was such a scare in this country because people thought they were coming from Yeah, there was the embryonic thing.
02:47:19.000 During the Bush administration, there was all this fear of it.
02:47:22.000 But they're using umbilical cords.
02:47:25.000 So a young woman gives birth, she can sell her umbilical cord.
02:47:31.000 And they take that umbilical cord and they convert it into stem cells.
02:47:35.000 It has radical healing properties when it's utilized correctly.
02:47:38.000 But in Panama, they can get away with a lot of shit.
02:47:41.000 And the same thing in Colombia.
02:47:42.000 There's a reason why Danny and Rampage are going down to Colombia is because they can do a lot of things there.
02:47:48.000 They can give you fucking trillions of cells.
02:47:50.000 They can...
02:47:51.000 Well, there have been, I agree with everything you're saying.
02:47:55.000 In fairness, there was a case in Florida of an eye clinic treating macular degeneration with stem cells, injected these people to try and save their vision.
02:48:05.000 They were early stage and they all went blind.
02:48:08.000 Yeah, that was scary.
02:48:08.000 The FDA shut them down.
02:48:09.000 So I do think when you talk about the brain and the eyes, which as we talked about last time I was on here, are two pieces of brain hanging out outside the crying, you know, vault.
02:48:18.000 There you have to be very, very careful.
02:48:20.000 A brain or an eye is not a knee.
02:48:23.000 What I understand, that was a very unethical application.
02:48:26.000 This clinic was making claims about curing blindness, Alzheimer's, all this stuff.
02:48:30.000 They're shut down now.
02:48:31.000 But so also when that happens, it sets back the field of stem cell therapies in this country 10 years or more.
02:48:37.000 So it's a slippery slope.
02:48:39.000 And I think this is why I think people need to approach this with caution.
02:48:43.000 It's one of the reasons why people are looking to peptides because like, for instance, you have what are called secretagogues, sounds like synagogue, but secretagogue, which is basically a hormone stimulating hormone.
02:48:54.000 So growth hormone, as we know, various people use AIDS and growth hormone really causes metabolism and repair.
02:49:01.000 That's really what it controls.
02:49:03.000 It makes organs grow, but it also increases metabolism, burns fat, et cetera.
02:49:06.000 You heal faster.
02:49:07.000 But there's growth hormone-releasing hormone, and those go under the names like ipamoralin, tesamoralin, things of that sort.
02:49:17.000 And now there are a lot of people who are taking those peptides in order to stimulate their more growth hormone, as opposed to taking growth hormone directly.
02:49:24.000 So now there's this whole class of peptides that are not hormones per se, but that they stimulate more hormones.
02:49:31.000 Are those effective?
02:49:32.000 Well, they absolutely work.
02:49:34.000 Whoa, the way you said that is scary.
02:49:36.000 Wasn't it scary?
02:49:37.000 They absolutely work.
02:49:40.000 Things like tesamoralin, ipamoralin, absolutely.
02:49:43.000 They'll cause you to release more growth hormone, you burn fat, you recover quicker, all the stuff.
02:49:49.000 This year's Olympics, you're gonna see some amazing record breaking in people that are not taking the banned substances.
02:49:56.000 Because they can take that stuff?
02:49:57.000 Because they can take certain peptides because every time something's on a banned substance list, all you have to do is get right outside the list and take something that is chemically similar enough They don't ban pathways.
02:50:10.000 They ban particular molecules.
02:50:13.000 So you can't take clenbuterol.
02:50:14.000 You can't test.
02:50:14.000 You can't take DECA. You can't do other stuff.
02:50:16.000 But people will take hormones, stimulating hormones.
02:50:18.000 You could take this ipamoral and stuff and compete in the Olympics?
02:50:21.000 I don't know if it's on the USADA list, but...
02:50:23.000 I mean, let's just say there is lots and lots of peptide use in order to get into these pathways.
02:50:30.000 So there's some stuff that is effective that is not on the list because they haven't discovered it yet?
02:50:36.000 They haven't banned it yet?
02:50:37.000 Right.
02:50:37.000 And things like sermorelin, which is another growth hormone secreting peptide.
02:50:43.000 There are 10 or 20 of these things that can promote the release of these different hormones.
02:50:48.000 And so the peptides are an area that is considered gray market.
02:50:51.000 They're not illegal.
02:50:52.000 They're not legal.
02:50:53.000 They're not prescribed by doctors, except Sermoralin is actually prescribed by MDs for growth hormone deficiency.
02:50:59.000 And it's actually was a popular diet a few years ago where people were given Sermoralin and told to go on very low calorie diets and because of the way growth hormone can preserve muscle and kill appetite.
02:51:09.000 People were losing weight.
02:51:10.000 And so in Hollywood, peptides are really big because unlike steroids, unlike hormones, peptides don't scare the category of people in Hollywood who don't want to put on muscle.
02:51:22.000 Let's just say it's big with the ladies.
02:51:24.000 They're big because it keeps your appetite down.
02:51:27.000 You burn fat.
02:51:27.000 But some of those people I've spoken to And they've said they're getting joint pain.
02:51:32.000 Well, if you take growth hormone-secreting peptides, you're going to start making more collagen.
02:51:38.000 Your skin will look more youthful, but you'll also start building more cartilage in your wrists.
02:51:42.000 And, you know, the skeleton has to contend with that.
02:51:44.000 And so everything grows.
02:51:46.000 What if you have cartilage problems like with your knees?
02:51:48.000 Would that help heal them?
02:51:49.000 It likely would.
02:51:51.000 Really?
02:51:51.000 Absolutely.
02:51:52.000 Yeah.
02:51:53.000 Oh.
02:51:55.000 What about meniscus?
02:51:58.000 Because meniscus is a real issue.
02:52:00.000 Like meniscus tears, one of the problems with it is there's not a lot of blood supply.
02:52:05.000 Right.
02:52:05.000 So Danny, those guys, I don't know how to find the videos.
02:52:08.000 I don't know if they're still up there.
02:52:10.000 Maybe they were in the stories.
02:52:11.000 But when they would go in for meniscus tears, they're going to burrow away a lot of the bone and other hard scar tissue that's in there.
02:52:17.000 And they're putting stem cells in there from what I could see in these videos.
02:52:21.000 And then they're also going to locally treat it with some of these peptides like GP157 and other things like that.
02:52:27.000 So you're creating an environment of well-being and health and mobility for a joint that's battered.
02:52:32.000 What they do at Ways to Well is they combine stem cells with BPC-157 as well.
02:52:38.000 So that's a common thing.
02:52:40.000 Yeah.
02:52:40.000 And so when you say, you know, do these things work, they absolutely work.
02:52:43.000 What are the risks?
02:52:44.000 Well, you're tickling cells in the pituitary to secrete more hormone.
02:52:48.000 So you're going to get some balancing out of other hormones.
02:52:51.000 If guys want to run out and just increase growth hormone, you'll increase testosterone and you'll also increase estrogen in parallel.
02:52:59.000 So people have different sensitivities and so this is why it's an experimental science and this is why Most MDs are not going to prescribe any of this stuff because an individual has to really be able to think intelligently and know, they have to understand their system.
02:53:12.000 It's clear you know your system, you know when you're feeling good and you know when you're not feeling good.
02:53:16.000 But when you see all these crazy videos on the web of guys getting ridiculous gyno and like tanning to the point where they look like a different human being, it's because people just have this more is better mentality.
02:53:27.000 Well, also, people, you know, they're doing it for Instagram likes.
02:53:33.000 Right.
02:53:33.000 There's part of what they're doing is, like, there's a giant group of people online that just experiment for YouTube views.
02:53:40.000 I mean, they're willing to try all kinds of crazy shit for YouTube views.
02:53:44.000 It's crazy.
02:53:44.000 Yeah, it's a wild world out there.
02:53:46.000 We're living in strange times.
02:54:14.000 Big ups in government, in the national institutes of whatever, and et cetera, well-intentioned, very educated people.
02:54:21.000 We're not coming out with public statements that were clear about how people should manage their stress, how they should manage their children's stress, how they should stay on a sleep schedule.
02:54:28.000 And so that's why I essentially just stepped up.
02:54:30.000 I think, well, I got a mouth and I know the literature.
02:54:33.000 And where I don't know the literature, I can communicate with these amazing colleagues that I have.
02:54:38.000 I can ask four of the best MDs on gut health.
02:54:41.000 I can talk to Matt Walker, the Stanford Sleep Clinic and find out what are the three things everyone should do to optimize their sleep.
02:54:47.000 And so from pulling from these various sources and communities, you can put it out there.
02:54:51.000 So I feel like social media has this very dark and kind of strange side.
02:54:54.000 And then it also is the opportunity to just put information out there for free.
02:54:57.000 And I think, you know, all the stuff about peptides and hormones, et cetera, that's kind of the more niche, but for most people, they're just struggling to figure out, like get oriented, like what is happening in the world with viruses and should I take vitamin D3? It's so hard to get good information.
02:55:14.000 Yeah, it really is.
02:55:15.000 And that's one of the more rewarding things about this podcast is that I can have people like you on and Matthew Walker and David Sinclair and all these people that are experts in health and wellness and they understand all these things and you can...
02:55:29.000 I mean, it's just an amazing resource, and it's free, and people can get educated about this stuff and understand that you can take some control over your own destiny in a small way by actually a pretty large way.
02:55:44.000 Oh, absolutely.
02:55:45.000 By benefiting your health.
02:55:46.000 I mean, the peptides and all these various things, they have a cost, but the basic things of viewing light in the morning, controlling your breathing as a way to modulate yourself.
02:55:55.000 It's great if you have a sauna, but you can also take a hot shower.
02:55:57.000 Most people have access to that.
02:55:58.000 Not everybody, of course, but most people.
02:56:01.000 Fasting for some portion of the day, trying to make better food choices.
02:56:04.000 These things don't just have a small effect on health and wellbeing.
02:56:07.000 They have a huge outsized effect and no one is going to provide it in pill form.
02:56:12.000 It's never going to be delivered by the government.
02:56:14.000 It's never going to be delivered in schools, although I would hope it would be someday.
02:56:17.000 But basically what we're trying to do, those of us that are interested in public science and health education, is provide a kind of a user manual for all this stuff, this technology that's been built into us.
02:56:28.000 I mean, we always think about a device technology, but the eyes, there's dopamine, the gut.
02:56:33.000 I mean, everyone's equipped with this stuff, but we never actually learn how to use it.
02:56:36.000 And so that's what, like you said, David and Matt and Rhonda Patrick, who I don't know, but has done great, you know, I think is doing great work.
02:56:42.000 She's amazing.
02:56:43.000 You guys would get along great.
02:56:45.000 Yeah, I think it's I think we're entering a new era now where people are feeling comfortable to do it.
02:56:49.000 And I, you know, and I'm grateful to you because I think this podcast, it's actually I'm absolutely clear that this podcast has promoted more health information than any other Media venue, clear directives or opportunities to explore.
02:57:05.000 You know, I know a few months back things got a little crazy around stuff and even Fauci was commenting back, but that just told me that this podcast is actually a primary source of public health information and for people to go ferret out The people, the resources, the papers enter the discussion.
02:57:21.000 And I think that is fundamentally important.
02:57:24.000 Without that, we are never going to make it.
02:57:27.000 And because we have that, I think I speak for many people, I'm extremely grateful.
02:57:32.000 Not just for this opportunity to come on here and speak, but for the opportunity for people to learn about choices, basically.
02:57:38.000 Well, I'm extremely grateful for people like you that come on here and are willing to share all your information and help educate people about this stuff because it's super important.
02:57:49.000 So tell me, we hit three hours, believe it or not, just flew by.
02:57:53.000 It's four o'clock.
02:57:54.000 Tell people when this podcast, you're doing a podcast right now.
02:57:59.000 And it is called...
02:58:01.000 Huberman Lab.
02:58:02.000 Huberman Lab.
02:58:02.000 And how long have you been doing it now?
02:58:03.000 Since January.
02:58:04.000 Since January.
02:58:05.000 Once a week.
02:58:06.000 Every Monday we have an episode.
02:58:07.000 It's not just about my lab's work.
02:58:09.000 In fact, it's mostly about other people's work.
02:58:12.000 And basically...
02:58:12.000 There it is.
02:58:13.000 Oh, thank you.
02:58:14.000 Yeah.
02:58:14.000 So every episode is about 90 minutes or two hours.
02:58:17.000 And we do the deep dive on some topics.
02:58:19.000 But we cluster them.
02:58:21.000 So like the month one was all about sleep and how to get better at sleeping.
02:58:24.000 What dreams mean.
02:58:26.000 If you're a jet lag or shift worker.
02:58:27.000 I care a lot about the...
02:58:28.000 The firemen and firefighters and police officers and military, they have shift work.
02:58:33.000 They can't do the perfect schedule.
02:58:35.000 So we did an episode about that, then we spent a month on hormones, growth hormone, peptides, and we spent a month on sleep and eye health and just basically everything.
02:58:43.000 So it's kind of a class that you can go and watch or listen to.
02:58:46.000 And then I also teach on Instagram, just Huberman Lab.
02:58:49.000 Yeah, I was about to bring that up.
02:58:51.000 Your Instagram posts are fantastic.
02:58:53.000 Oh, thank you.
02:58:53.000 They're really good.
02:58:53.000 Everything you do is awesome.
02:58:54.000 But all this stuff, is it available on all platforms?
02:58:58.000 All platforms.
02:58:58.000 It's available on everything?
02:58:59.000 Yeah, Spotify, Apple, YouTube, and all the other various places you can find podcasts.
02:59:03.000 And the Instagram, obviously on Instagram.
02:59:05.000 I'm on Twitter a bit.
02:59:05.000 What is your Instagram?
02:59:06.000 Huberman Lab.
02:59:07.000 Huberman Lab.
02:59:08.000 And Twitter as well?
02:59:10.000 Huberman Lab.
02:59:10.000 You use that?
02:59:11.000 Yeah.
02:59:11.000 Okay.
02:59:12.000 Yeah.
02:59:13.000 Thank you.
02:59:13.000 It was awesome, as always.
02:59:14.000 Thank you.
02:59:14.000 I appreciate you very much.
02:59:15.000 I appreciate you.
02:59:16.000 You're awesome, dude.
02:59:16.000 Thank you.
02:59:17.000 All right.
02:59:18.000 That's it.
02:59:18.000 Bye, everybody.