The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1692

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day!

00:00:12.000 Well, it's a pleasure to meet you.

00:00:13.000 Oh, it's an honor to meet you.

00:00:14.000 Honored to meet you, too.

00:00:15.000 You know, I've paid attention to your videos, and I follow you on Instagram, and so many times I've watched your videos and said, that's an authentic guy.

00:00:26.000 Like, I want to meet that guy.

00:00:27.000 I want to talk to him.

00:00:28.000 So I was really excited that you were willing to do this.

00:00:30.000 Oh, man, I was honored.

00:00:32.000 Let me turn this, I guess.

00:00:33.000 I was really honored.

00:00:35.000 When I reached out to you on Instagram, I was surprised that you were following me.

00:00:39.000 I was blown away, man.

00:00:41.000 I just said, man, you know, I've been watching you for a while.

00:00:43.000 And I was just, you know, when you offered for me to come here, man, I was just ecstatic.

00:00:48.000 So thanks, man.

00:00:49.000 It's an honor to be here.

00:00:49.000 Oh, my pleasure.

00:00:50.000 You know, I think one thing that young boys and men as well need in this world is guidance and mentorship.

00:00:59.000 And to get that from martial arts is one of the best ways and one of the most fulfilling and satisfying ways.

00:01:07.000 So I found you from a video that a bunch of people sent me of you working with a young boy who was having a hard time dealing with The pain of like punching through a board you know the video and just the way you were communicating with him and letting him know that it's okay to cry and that you know just express yourself and it was refreshing and it was authentic but it was also like you could tell like that kid is gonna get a lot out of that exchange and I was like I want to meet that guy.

00:01:36.000 Well yeah man I mean that video opened my mind up to really what men were dealing with inside because when that video went viral Our offices at our non-profit had to shut down.

00:01:47.000 Really?

00:01:47.000 Okay, so the Cave of Adullam, the martial arts program you're speaking of, is under the umbrella of our non-profit, The Union.

00:01:54.000 And so when this video went viral, my wife calls me, who was our executive director.

00:01:58.000 She says, Jason, is there a video that's going viral?

00:02:01.000 And I'm like, what do you mean?

00:02:03.000 2016?

00:02:03.000 I didn't really understand the terminology.

00:02:06.000 And sure enough, this video started racking up a lot of views.

00:02:09.000 Shortly thereafter, our phones wouldn't stop ringing.

00:02:13.000 And it was men from all over the world crying to our staff, calling and crying saying, I want to be free.

00:02:19.000 I'm tired of holding all of this in.

00:02:21.000 I wish my coach would have talked to me that way when I was going through a lot.

00:02:25.000 Yeah, there it is right there.

00:02:26.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:02:28.000 Well, it's hard to find a good mentor, and I think every man needs a mentor.

00:02:36.000 And, you know, one of the things that martial arts does that I think is really important is it gives you these goals to work towards.

00:02:43.000 As you move through a belt system or whatever kind of system that each martial art that's different has, as you develop your skills and you get more proficient and you improve, You have like tangible progress and you can see it.

00:03:01.000 And I think there's a lot of people that go through life not exactly sure where they stand, where they're at.

00:03:07.000 And I think martial arts provides you with real feedback in one of the most, I think one of the most emotionally and physically difficult things that a person can do.

00:03:17.000 Yes, and so many people don't realize the young boy in that video, Bruce, he actually had a fear of failure.

00:03:23.000 He had broke that board easily the week prior, but because of this test and the pressure and everyone watching, he just froze on his non-dominant hand, and he couldn't break through.

00:03:34.000 So he broke down crying, and I welcomed his tears and said, look, we cry as men, you know, let this go.

00:03:40.000 And men, and I love about martial arts, more than sports, It makes you face your fears.

00:03:46.000 And nothing like if a punch is coming at you, a kick, or if you're grappling and you're concerned that someone's going to take your back and choke you.

00:03:52.000 I apply all these principles in life as well.

00:03:55.000 And so when you give a man or a male a safe space to really be emotional and let go of the anxiety that he feels every day, the father wound, his fear of failure, his lack of confidence, where he can have a moment, we call it a moment on the mat, where you can stop the training and you can express what's overwhelming you in that moment.

00:04:14.000 They transform instantly, man.

00:04:15.000 And it's a great thing to see.

00:04:17.000 And I've never seen anything work like the arts.

00:04:21.000 Even with my son, he's 13 years old.

00:04:23.000 You saw him, you know, six, one and a half.

00:04:26.000 Everyone says, you're going to play basketball.

00:04:28.000 And it's like, no, it's other things that I want to do.

00:04:30.000 And so even with sports, I say, son, it'll give you some confidence.

00:04:33.000 But when we spar, we're training, the anxiety he feels, the voices, oh man, Chris hit you again.

00:04:41.000 What are you going to do about that?

00:04:42.000 How are you going to maneuver?

00:04:43.000 How are you going to respond?

00:04:44.000 And I allow him to break down in that moment.

00:04:47.000 I say, okay, cool.

00:04:47.000 Now it's time to recover.

00:04:49.000 Reflect on it.

00:04:50.000 What's the lie?

00:04:51.000 What's the truth?

00:04:52.000 Do you think this man is not supposed to hit you?

00:04:54.000 He's a skilled fighter.

00:04:56.000 The goal is not for you to be the best, the goal is for you to learn.

00:05:00.000 So when I give them that freedom to feel, to feel the fear, now they don't succumb to it when it really happens in real life.

00:05:08.000 And so that's why I love the arts, especially the grappling arts, which I hate I didn't discover until later in my training because nothing likes someone invading your space.

00:05:19.000 You know, we can keep distance striking and we're comfortable here.

00:05:23.000 But when someone invades your space or when a problem happens in your life where it's so close and personal that you can't just shake it.

00:05:30.000 You have to learn how to buy your time and maneuver and don't let it come around you or you can get tapped out by the stress of that situation.

00:05:39.000 The arts is just amazing if it's taught in a way that men can apply it to life.

00:05:43.000 I couldn't agree more and I think one of the beautiful things about jujitsu in particular is there's so much failure and You could call it failure or you could just it is what it is I mean there's one person gets tapped the other person taps the person out you one person submits the other person applies a submission it's just and it's constant if you're training with really good people and You're experiencing loss on a regular basis,

00:06:10.000 and so you understand how to process that.

00:06:14.000 For some people, when they've failed in life or when something didn't go their way, they fall apart.

00:06:22.000 It's devastating.

00:06:23.000 They judge themselves as a whole based on one moment.

00:06:28.000 Whether it's a moment at work or whether it's something in their personal life or whatever it is where they haven't achieved success the way they envisioned it should happen or they wanted it to happen.

00:06:39.000 It's devastating.

00:06:40.000 It kills their confidence and they don't know how to handle it.

00:06:43.000 One of the beautiful things about jujitsu is you achieve failure all the time.

00:06:49.000 If you train with good people, you're constantly getting strangled and armbarred and leg-locked.

00:06:53.000 It's just what it is.

00:06:55.000 I started with Shaolin Kempo.

00:06:59.000 Actually, I started with what they called a combat jiu-jitsu in Detroit.

00:07:02.000 It was more of an urban-type training.

00:07:05.000 We didn't even have mats, man, because the instructor at the time said, there's no mats outside.

00:07:10.000 He was training us to do security.

00:07:12.000 These guys were so serious, they would shut down crack houses.

00:07:14.000 And so imagine coming from that and then going to more of like a Shaolin Kenpo system.

00:07:21.000 Even my instructor then was a very serious Vietnam veteran.

00:07:25.000 It wasn't this touch magical stuff where you fall out.

00:07:28.000 But still, That type of training, going from Aikibu Jutsu as well, and then going to Jiu Jitsu.

00:07:35.000 Jiu Jitsu there was never a day off.

00:07:38.000 I hurt every time after training.

00:07:41.000 And I want to thank you real quick.

00:07:43.000 I was about to dive into Aikido.

00:07:46.000 And this is when I first heard of you, okay?

00:07:48.000 And so I'm Googling, you know, you're trying to make sure this is something you want to do, because I only study the arts, not necessarily to learn how to defend myself, because in my community, people carry guns, okay?

00:07:59.000 So that's the eliminator of all of that.

00:08:02.000 And so I would use it to help men and boys to navigate through their emotions so that they don't succumb to the negative ones.

00:08:09.000 You had a show with an Aikidoka, someone who practices Aikido, and you said you think this would work against a D1 wrestler.

00:08:16.000 And you showed the video and the D1 wrestler just overwhelmed this person in Aikido.

00:08:23.000 Joe, I always felt that way when I started training.

00:08:25.000 It was called Yoshinkan.

00:08:27.000 It was the real stiff...

00:08:29.000 I said, this won't work for real.

00:08:32.000 And although I appreciated the principles, but it was that show that you had that really said, look, go on to something else.

00:08:39.000 Then I tried Aikibu Jutsu, which is like samurai wrestling techniques more.

00:08:43.000 It was like a hybrid, a mix of Jujutsu, Judo, and then some Aikido.

00:08:48.000 But nothing was like Jujutsu, man, because it made me face my self-doubt.

00:08:55.000 When you think you're the greatest, you're humbled really quick.

00:08:58.000 Yeah.

00:08:59.000 And then I had to overcome what I call false humility.

00:09:02.000 You know, sometimes I would be bigger, majority of times, bigger than the person I would roll with.

00:09:07.000 And as a teacher by heart, I would catch myself, Joe, teaching the person I'm rolling with how to beat me and what they're doing wrong instead of just dominating him.

00:09:17.000 So then one of my coaches, Xander Heinen, who's a Marcelo Garcia black belt, he says, you're supposed to dominate.

00:09:24.000 Don't worry about teaching them.

00:09:25.000 They'll learn on the mat.

00:09:26.000 And that was something I had to work through as a teacher because I saw men when I was rolling with them when they were really tight.

00:09:33.000 My training and other arts allowed me to be soft and let that energy go past me so that I can control them.

00:09:39.000 But I wanted to help the man because I knew inside what he was dealing with personally and that's why he was rolling with me so aggressive.

00:09:47.000 And so I had to make myself tap out, do my best to tap out everyone on that mat that day, which you know is a very hard thing to do in a good school.

00:09:57.000 But God was telling me, you got to get past this because I need you to go to a certain space in life where you won't be fearful of being dominant.

00:10:05.000 And so many good men shrink back and become passive, and jujitsu makes you say, you have to face this.

00:10:13.000 You have to be strong.

00:10:15.000 You can't avoid the difficult conversation you need to have with your wife.

00:10:18.000 You can't avoid speaking up for yourself when someone took a position from you at work.

00:10:23.000 And the arts, again, if taught correctly, it allows a man that pathway to really develop holistically.

00:10:30.000 That's interesting, a fear of being dominant.

00:10:33.000 I see what you're saying, though.

00:10:36.000 You're worried about almost being a bully or something.

00:10:41.000 Or just being just the best.

00:10:43.000 I had a situation, my cousin, and this is where it started from trauma, because there's a cause and effect for everything that we do.

00:10:49.000 I remember the Sony Watchmen TVs, the little portable TVs.

00:10:53.000 He had let one of the gang members in our area use it, and he never gave it back.

00:10:57.000 And so I was so upset.

00:10:59.000 Before I knew it, I hit him on the side of where his temple was, and he went deaf temporarily and dropped in my kitchen floor.

00:11:07.000 That scared me because I loved him.

00:11:09.000 And ever since then, for a period of my time in my life, I refused to be dominant, and that scared me in that moment.

00:11:16.000 But one of my instructors...

00:11:18.000 So you just hit him just because you were upset at him?

00:11:19.000 I was angry, man.

00:11:20.000 I mean, as a male, I thought I got punked.

00:11:24.000 We're not taught to really reason or reconcile.

00:11:28.000 You disrespect me, you got to pay for that.

00:11:31.000 And here's someone I loved in front of me.

00:11:33.000 I couldn't say, man, that hurt me that you sold something that meant a lot to me because then I would come off as weak.

00:11:39.000 So before I knew it, Joe, I hit him and dropped him in my kitchen.

00:11:43.000 And he couldn't hear for a while, and that scared me.

00:11:46.000 And that carried on in my life where I would pull back from just being dominant until one of my instructors, Kajana, we were sparring.

00:11:54.000 He's maybe 5'2", and he says, you're not trying to hit me.

00:11:59.000 I said, yes, I am.

00:12:00.000 He says, let's go again.

00:12:02.000 So we start sparring.

00:12:03.000 He puts his face in front of my fists, and I move my fists subconsciously.

00:12:09.000 And I said, whoa, what was that?

00:12:11.000 He says, your fear being dominant.

00:12:15.000 He says, you have me outweighed.

00:12:17.000 You're stronger in everything, but you think it's your fault.

00:12:21.000 And so I see this play out even in kids in school or grown men who are big.

00:12:26.000 And they tend to shrink down.

00:12:28.000 That's why if you see a tall person they tend to slouch down a lot.

00:12:31.000 And I tell all of my young boys, even the girls, raise your chin.

00:12:34.000 It's not your fault that you're taller than everyone.

00:12:37.000 And so I had to learn in that moment it's not my problem.

00:12:42.000 That I'm dominant in this situation.

00:12:44.000 That's the person I'm facing.

00:12:46.000 That is an interesting thing.

00:12:47.000 You see sometimes with really big guys, you see them get bullied and pushed around.

00:12:51.000 And so you think that's what it is?

00:12:52.000 That they have a fear?

00:12:53.000 That's what it is.

00:12:53.000 They know they could be dominant.

00:12:55.000 I remember one scene in one of the Avengers movies, Black Widow was talking to Bruce Banner.

00:12:59.000 She says, I hang around fighters, but here it is I meet a man who can win but doesn't want to.

00:13:06.000 Something like that.

00:13:07.000 And that struck a chord with me because I saw myself in that.

00:13:10.000 He knew he could turn green and dominate, but that's why he always says, I don't want to do that.

00:13:16.000 But as I talk about even in my book, I share with me because so many men go passive when they need to be vigilant, when they need to be assertive.

00:13:23.000 And there was another scene where this building was collapsing on Bruce Banner and the Black Widow.

00:13:29.000 And she says, you're not going to turn green.

00:13:31.000 He says, I don't feel there's a time for that or something like that right now.

00:13:34.000 So she kisses him.

00:13:36.000 She says, basically, I admire this sweetheart.

00:13:39.000 But I need the other guy and pushes him off this cliff.

00:13:42.000 Then here he comes out of the cliff, down like the Hulk, and grabs her and leaps her to safety.

00:13:49.000 As men, we have to learn how to become all things.

00:13:52.000 Be anything, we have to be at any given moment.

00:13:54.000 And so, so often the big men learn to be passive because they're always told, especially in martial arts, whether they say in the traditional ones, don't use strength.

00:14:03.000 Use technique and all this other stuff.

00:14:05.000 But jujitsu lets you know strength at the right time is a very powerful tool.

00:14:10.000 And so, so many of these big guys have been muzzled.

00:14:14.000 And so when they get in life and a situation come a little guy that's tough, he's used to going passive instead of being assertive.

00:14:21.000 And so in our academy, we teach assertiveness over aggression because aggression, we say, is power out of control.

00:14:27.000 You see it in boxing where a guy's just swinging.

00:14:30.000 Then assertive is a calculated action.

00:14:32.000 I know if I need to knock you out or break your jaw, I'm hitting you right here.

00:14:35.000 All right?

00:14:36.000 And so that's the difference.

00:14:37.000 So we say, be assertive, not aggressive.

00:14:39.000 Aggressive, you can't really see what's going on.

00:14:41.000 You're reacting to your emotions instead of responding to the threat.

00:14:46.000 And that's what I believe the majority of big men struggle with.

00:14:50.000 A friend of mine, Xander, he doesn't mind.

00:14:52.000 He's a Marcelo Garcia black belt.

00:14:54.000 Six, seven.

00:14:55.000 And I will always joke, he is...

00:14:58.000 The Hulk before he turns green.

00:14:59.000 So he's Bruce Banner right in the middle.

00:15:01.000 That's how big he is.

00:15:02.000 And he's like 270 pounds.

00:15:05.000 He literally can roll with you and lay on you and you probably couldn't breathe because he knows how to put the pressure on you.

00:15:12.000 But we would talk like, man, you know, why do we shrink back?

00:15:17.000 You know, we think, well, man, the only reason you won is because you're bigger.

00:15:20.000 And so what if I'm bigger?

00:15:22.000 Your job is to beat me.

00:15:24.000 I remember I was rolling with one guy.

00:15:26.000 He says, well, how much do you weigh?

00:15:27.000 You outweigh me by 50 pounds.

00:15:29.000 But yet Fabio Lima, who's another instructor in Detroit, he's half my size and taps me.

00:15:36.000 Mm-hmm.

00:15:36.000 You understand?

00:15:37.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:15:38.000 Yeah, you see it in jiu-jitsu all the time.

00:15:40.000 But big guys, it's like you're supposed to win when you're big.

00:15:43.000 So when you lose, it's twice as worse, you know?

00:15:47.000 Well, it is important for big guys to learn what it's like to face other big guys as well.

00:15:51.000 If you're a big guy in an academy that only has small people, you can get a very false sense of security.

00:15:57.000 Absolutely, yeah.

00:15:58.000 And then all of a sudden, someone comes along and ragdolls you, and you're like, you're not accustomed to that.

00:16:03.000 I mean, like I said, that happened.

00:16:04.000 My first...

00:16:05.000 Like, experience with jiu-jitsu, the guy was my size.

00:16:08.000 So I'm coming, thinking I can do certain locks, armbar, because, again, at the time, I wasn't used to applying it against real resistance.

00:16:14.000 So you look sweet if everyone is a rag doll.

00:16:17.000 I can go through techniques and demos, and you look really great.

00:16:20.000 Right, if no one's resistant.

00:16:21.000 Yeah, but what happens when they're trying to stop you?

00:16:23.000 Yeah, that's a problem with a lot of those sort of...

00:16:26.000 Combinatory martial arts where they take a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and then they do drills.

00:16:31.000 It's like you learn the movements of the drills, but you don't learn when someone's actually resisting against you.

00:16:36.000 And that's Aikido in a lot of ways.

00:16:38.000 It is, it is.

00:16:39.000 And Osensei, the founder of the Creator, A lot of the techniques that are still done in Aikido are from his era.

00:16:47.000 It's like, why hasn't it evolved?

00:16:48.000 And that's another thing I loved about jiu-jitsu.

00:16:51.000 It constantly evolves.

00:16:52.000 And you'll see even blue belts make techniques, and it's praised amongst the entire community.

00:16:57.000 And I'm just like...

00:16:58.000 Man, I wish I would have found this art a lot sooner.

00:17:03.000 But that's what you see.

00:17:05.000 And even in a cave, man, you can drill.

00:17:07.000 Even with our students, let them go through techniques so they can get the form, understand speed and pressure.

00:17:13.000 But let's see what it looks like if he's trying to stop you.

00:17:16.000 So we make sure after each class that that happens.

00:17:18.000 And then the principle in life is you're going to face resistance.

00:17:22.000 How do you counter it?

00:17:24.000 How do you move?

00:17:24.000 Do you stay up in front of it and try to block it?

00:17:27.000 Or do you move and counter it so that you can win?

00:17:30.000 How many years have you been mentoring young boys?

00:17:34.000 I would say almost 16, 17 years now.

00:17:37.000 And how did it get started?

00:17:40.000 Well, I founded our non-profit in 2003. And from there, my father wasn't actively in my life.

00:17:47.000 You know, he was around but wasn't there.

00:17:49.000 And I had what's called a father wound.

00:17:51.000 And basically just an absence of a male figure in my life, specifically my father.

00:17:56.000 He was verbally abusive.

00:17:57.000 You know, if I knocked this cup over, I would get cursed out, you know, things like that.

00:18:02.000 So I had to overcome a lot of that.

00:18:04.000 So in Detroit, I saw a great need for black boys to be mentored.

00:18:09.000 And so at first I started the Cave of Adullen with just martial arts.

00:18:13.000 But then I quickly discovered after these boot camp programs kept failing over and over again and scare straight programs, Was that our boys didn't need more discipline.

00:18:23.000 They needed more love.

00:18:24.000 So then I made the Cave of Adela more comprehensive.

00:18:27.000 So I still use the arts, focus on what works, but also give boys a safe space to release the trauma they're dealing with in their lives, the emotional pain, the lack of confidence, all these other things that they're dealing with, and give them this space where they can release it and become strong.

00:18:42.000 So that started, I had my first pilot in 2008. And then after that, 2013, I was awarded a grant for just developing the cave.

00:18:53.000 And that's when we just started going full time in our own location.

00:18:57.000 And we haven't looked back then.

00:18:59.000 We have almost 500 boys on our waiting list.

00:19:02.000 Wow.

00:19:02.000 Yeah.

00:19:03.000 And, you know, what's interesting, Joe, I thought it was just a black thing, you know, because, again, if that's all you're around, you think that's the only youth that are dealing with these issues.

00:19:14.000 I had a group one time.

00:19:15.000 It was multicultural, which was great.

00:19:17.000 It was my first time.

00:19:18.000 And I saw white kids, you know, that I cared about, were struggling so much and weren't used to releasing what they felt.

00:19:26.000 And one of them direct messaged me, a 16-year-old.

00:19:30.000 He says, Mr. Wilson, please don't ever forget about us because he was concerned because there was a lot of school shootings at the time.

00:19:39.000 He says, a lot of times we're abused and we don't know how to process this emotion, then we'll grab a gun and it's the only way we know how to express ourselves.

00:19:48.000 It's no different from a man who is volatile and abusive to his wife.

00:19:52.000 You know, I used to hit things in my home, Joe.

00:19:56.000 I'm not, you know, proud of saying it.

00:19:57.000 You know, my wife would say things that would trigger me, and I would knock holes in the wall just in anger because I didn't know how to express hurt or sadness or just feeling dismissed and passively dismissed for how I felt.

00:20:10.000 And as a result, I became a very unstable man mentally, emotionally, and I was just what I call just a masculine male.

00:20:20.000 I wasn't comprehensive at the time.

00:20:22.000 And so I saw a direct correlation when I allow a male that freedom to feel.

00:20:29.000 To be angry when you're upset, but then teach you how to reset from that anger.

00:20:34.000 How to use that anger for good because anger isn't bad.

00:20:36.000 It's only bad when you allow it to make you do bad things.

00:20:41.000 The greatest statistic I love in our academy is that over 78% of our recruits improve their grade point average by one letter grade without tutoring.

00:20:50.000 That's because we allow them to be who they are inside.

00:20:53.000 Allow them to live from the good in their heart.

00:20:55.000 Allow them to talk about the things they're experiencing at home, the things they're experiencing at school.

00:21:01.000 We don't just go into training in martial arts because then they could be great that day in training physically, but leave there still mentally.

00:21:09.000 Traumatized or emotionally damaged.

00:21:12.000 And so the CAVE is just that it's an institute or an academy where we allow boys to feel.

00:21:20.000 You know, our mission is to teach, train, and transform boys into comprehensive men, men who are physically conscious, mentally astute, but spiritually strong enough to navigate through the pressures of this world without succumbing to their negative emotions.

00:21:35.000 So when you're doing this, you're learning yourself and you're also teaching these kids.

00:21:41.000 So how much of a process was it to develop the curriculum, to develop this program, and to figure out what is the best way to address these boys and their insecurities and their issues and how to give them strength and give them love,

00:21:58.000 but also give them discipline, also teach them how to How to work through pain, work through emotions.

00:22:06.000 It must have been a lot of trial and error.

00:22:08.000 It was a lot of trial and error.

00:22:12.000 More so, Joe, I had to become transparent.

00:22:16.000 In that moment, when that video went viral, none of my recruits really ever seen me cry.

00:22:21.000 You know, I was still just tough, man.

00:22:24.000 And at the time, my mother was going through dementia.

00:22:28.000 So I'm still trying to develop this curriculum.

00:22:30.000 I'm saying, okay, it's coming along, but it's still missing something.

00:22:34.000 And what it was missing was giving men the freedom to be vulnerable at any given moment and for them to feel that liberating power.

00:22:43.000 When my mother developed dementia, Joe, she was like my sensei, man.

00:22:49.000 Meaning the emotions that I could hide in martial arts training because where I came up, you couldn't express that.

00:22:56.000 You know, they would, you know, once school I was at, they would just rush you.

00:22:59.000 The instructor would say, everyone on Jason.

00:23:02.000 And, you know, we would shake going into this school.

00:23:04.000 Our hands would shake because it wasn't just grappling.

00:23:06.000 We dealt with real knives.

00:23:08.000 You're getting kicked.

00:23:09.000 No pads.

00:23:10.000 None of that, man.

00:23:12.000 You dealt with real knives?

00:23:13.000 Yeah.

00:23:13.000 So you're doing like knife retention.

00:23:15.000 Yeah, because this whole thing is like everything.

00:23:17.000 He's a masterful teacher.

00:23:20.000 A lot of this stuff is choreography.

00:23:22.000 Okay, you see some of the gun defenses and things like that.

00:23:24.000 It's like, come on, man, that wouldn't work.

00:23:26.000 The way he taught us is like, if someone has a knife, if you can get away, go.

00:23:31.000 I think Jaco said the same thing.

00:23:33.000 If someone has a knife, go the other direction.

00:23:35.000 But if you have to defend yourself, first thing you need to realize is that they should cut you.

00:23:40.000 If it's just your uncle drunk at a barbecue, they should cut you.

00:23:44.000 Can you deal with that pain and that emotion of seeing your own blood run down your arm and still eliminate the threat?

00:23:51.000 So these things we would practice with knives because he says if it's plastic in your head, what happens when a real one comes?

00:23:58.000 But I couldn't express really what was going on inside of me that would make me feel the fear.

00:24:05.000 The cave needed that element.

00:24:07.000 It needed to say, why are you pulling back?

00:24:10.000 Why aren't you applying that armbar?

00:24:11.000 Why are you scared to get thrown when your partner needs you to practice his own?

00:24:15.000 And we tie the throws, especially judo throws, to a fear of failure.

00:24:21.000 Because as you know, in judo, if you're not relaxed when you take that fall, it hurts significantly more.

00:24:27.000 In life, if you don't just go with it and allow yourself the freedom to make a mistake or freedom to fall or freedom to fail, when you hit that ground, when you fail to hit that wall, it hurts that much more.

00:24:39.000 And so what I had to do was first allow my students to see what hurts me.

00:24:44.000 My mother had a stroke one day and my wife comes in and says, hey, you need to leave immediately.

00:24:50.000 Your mom had to get rushed to the hospital.

00:24:53.000 I start breaking down.

00:24:55.000 And all of my kids, imagine all of them in the fathers there, surround you, hug you, and pray with you, just hugging me.

00:25:03.000 And at that moment, I said, this is what they need.

00:25:07.000 They need to see a comprehensive man, someone who's strong but sensitive, someone who's courageous but compassionate, someone who freely lives from the good in their heart and doesn't allow their fears to stop them from living.

00:25:21.000 When that happened, Joel, These boys became not only greater at martial arts, but greater sons, greater community servants, greater students, able to deal with bullies.

00:25:36.000 One of my students, a beautiful kid, Josiah, short, curly hair, beautiful personality.

00:25:42.000 He was getting bullied at school, but he thought it wasn't Christ-like, you know, or the Christian thing to do is to defend yourself.

00:25:50.000 You know, you're supposed to take it.

00:25:51.000 I'm like, I don't know where you got that from.

00:25:53.000 I said, if someone is trying to harm you, defend yourself.

00:25:56.000 So the bully grabs him one day.

00:25:58.000 Ogoshi, he grabs him from behind, he throws him, kick the legs out, and slam the bully down to the ground.

00:26:04.000 You would think he would celebrate just defending himself, but what made Josiah the proudest was that before the bully hit the ground, he pulled up on his hoodie to stop his head from hitting the cement.

00:26:17.000 Hmm.

00:26:18.000 Wow.

00:26:18.000 That's when I knew, I said, this is it.

00:26:22.000 Where the good kids, the gentlemen, the kids who are bullied and overlooked can defend themselves, turn on the lion, but reset back to the lamb.

00:26:32.000 No one wants to be prowling all around, defending and looking rough all the time, having to hit and being just in that fight or flight mode 24-7.

00:26:42.000 Someone tries to harm you, you defend yourself demonstrably, but you reset.

00:26:47.000 You don't ever allow your kind spirit to conform to something that's callous.

00:26:52.000 And so that's the main principle that we teach is do not live from your fears.

00:26:59.000 Live from the good that's inside of you.

00:27:01.000 And so that's how it all had to come about.

00:27:06.000 And when my mom started getting worse and worse, I never had to wash her hair.

00:27:14.000 I never had to do her nails.

00:27:16.000 I never had to change her sometimes.

00:27:19.000 As a masculine male, you know, we allow masculinity to define us.

00:27:24.000 And it's just an adjective with a few attributes.

00:27:28.000 But it hindered me from loving my mother.

00:27:31.000 And so by faith, I prayed.

00:27:34.000 I said, I can't deal with this.

00:27:35.000 It's too stressful for me.

00:27:37.000 You know, I'm used to just dealing with the bills or checking the pharmaceutical companies when they're trying to overcharge mom or things like that.

00:27:43.000 That's masculine.

00:27:44.000 I can handle this.

00:27:45.000 That's a safe space for me.

00:27:47.000 But he's like, no.

00:27:48.000 He says, in order for you to give your mother the care that you need, the most I was like, you're going to have to become comprehensive.

00:27:55.000 You're going to have to run towards what you don't want to feel.

00:27:58.000 And that's why I tell all of my men, you have someone in your life that needs you, but you avoid it because it makes you feel emotions that aren't masculine.

00:28:09.000 And I said, find that person and run towards that.

00:28:12.000 And then you can start finding yourself healing from what got you to that place.

00:28:17.000 And so with my mom, I got free, Joe.

00:28:21.000 You know, I became comprehensive.

00:28:23.000 I was proud to be a nurturer of my son.

00:28:26.000 You know, you met him.

00:28:27.000 He knows I'm a protector, but he also knows I'm a nurturer.

00:28:31.000 And this world not only needs us to be masculine as men, but they need us to be comprehensive.

00:28:37.000 They need our wives, our women, society needs to see how powerful the love looks like coming from a man.

00:28:48.000 That's why I'm here, man.

00:28:50.000 When I get contacted by even people from the UFC, you know, fighters and other actors and people you would never expect who would say, hey man, I want to break free from this.

00:29:03.000 It's just an honor to be used to just share a message that I know can liberate so many men where we become better for ourselves, better leaders, better husbands.

00:29:13.000 And, you know, the suicide rate amongst men, what is it, three to four times we die by suicide than women.

00:29:20.000 You know, how often I take pictures every time I'm out, Joe, I see an elderly couple and the man can barely walk and the wife is peppy.

00:29:32.000 We allow ourselves to be identified by what we do instead of who we really are.

00:29:37.000 And so for me, you know, I had no faith growing up, man.

00:29:43.000 Like, you know, I was, you would call me an atheist.

00:29:47.000 Okay.

00:29:48.000 And until I started having significant trauma after trauma, two of my brothers were murdered.

00:29:55.000 My best friend dropped dead of a heart attack on the job with us, just sweeping, drops dead on the floor.

00:30:00.000 Several friends of mine get shot and die.

00:30:03.000 And my best friend at the time of high school gets shot in the head.

00:30:06.000 All of this stuff had...

00:30:09.000 Shaped my mind in a way where I didn't really expect anything good to happen.

00:30:15.000 And so because of that, being only a masculine male for me was perfect because I could stay in fight or flight.

00:30:25.000 I can guard myself.

00:30:26.000 I didn't have to show any weakness.

00:30:29.000 But when I allowed myself to feel, when I allowed myself to To really be what I didn't see?

00:30:41.000 So you say, how did I develop the curriculum of the cave?

00:30:44.000 All I am to these boys, all I am to men like yourself, I became what I desired.

00:30:50.000 I always wanted a male in my life that I can look up to, trust, and be a mentor, or be a mentor to me.

00:30:56.000 Someone that I can confide in who wouldn't condemn me when I fail.

00:31:00.000 That's all I am, Joe.

00:31:01.000 And then Things I couldn't deny, like I hated the church, like with a passion, Jehovah's Witnesses would come to my door.

00:31:10.000 I would study the Bible just to dog them, just to put them in check.

00:31:15.000 Then I studied Egyptology, Hinduism, everything.

00:31:18.000 I said, okay, cool.

00:31:19.000 I said, God, if you're real, show me.

00:31:25.000 A friend of mine who's in the NBA, well, he's retired now.

00:31:28.000 We were going to the studio.

00:31:30.000 I used to produce music as well.

00:31:32.000 And he says, I can't drive, but you can take the car to the studio.

00:31:36.000 I drive the truck.

00:31:38.000 Going on the freeway, a car stalls in front of me.

00:31:41.000 So I swerved to get out of the way.

00:31:43.000 It was a four-runner, which was top-heavy at the time.

00:31:46.000 The car truck flips over two times and lands back on all four.

00:31:50.000 They rush me to the hospital.

00:31:52.000 Here he comes.

00:31:53.000 He's the number one draft pick at the time.

00:31:54.000 He comes in the hospital screaming and crying like, where's Jason?

00:31:58.000 He comes to me.

00:31:59.000 I says, dude, am I right?

00:32:01.000 Trust me, it's cool.

00:32:02.000 He was like, no, you don't understand.

00:32:04.000 My mother told me this was going to happen.

00:32:06.000 That's why I didn't drive the car.

00:32:09.000 I said, okay, cool.

00:32:10.000 Wouldn't it be nice if he told you?

00:32:11.000 Yeah, exactly, dude.

00:32:14.000 And so that's a whole other conversation.

00:32:17.000 That's another conversation.

00:32:18.000 I don't know if he believed it either.

00:32:20.000 Oh, that's funny.

00:32:20.000 But for his sake, like, I don't want to take chances, but you can go.

00:32:25.000 I asked his mother, I said, is that true?

00:32:28.000 She was like, yeah.

00:32:29.000 That still wasn't enough for me.

00:32:31.000 That was just a coincidence.

00:32:33.000 I got so many stories, but the one that really transformed my life, I'm working at Coca-Cola.

00:32:38.000 12-hour days, I'm angry.

00:32:40.000 And my wife calls me and says, don't lose the faith.

00:32:43.000 I said, if God is real, why am I in here all these hours and I have all of this talent and I'm just driving a forklift?

00:32:51.000 I said, he's fake.

00:32:52.000 And I studied Egyptology.

00:32:53.000 I said, the only sun that's coming through the clouds is the sun.

00:32:57.000 And we, in Egyptology, that was Ra.

00:32:59.000 The sun god.

00:33:01.000 And I hung up.

00:33:02.000 Within 10 minutes, I go to unload the pallets off of this truck, and the driver didn't chalk his brakes.

00:33:09.000 The weight of the high-low pushed the truck bed away, and I dropped with the high-low to the ground, two herniated discs in my back.

00:33:16.000 I fall to the ground.

00:33:17.000 I look up to the sky.

00:33:19.000 I say, okay, you got my attention.

00:33:21.000 I'll never go against you again.

00:33:25.000 My son, you see in that lobby, my wife had five miscarriages after our daughter.

00:33:32.000 And after my father died in 2007, I was in the shower and heard the Lord say to me, he says, hey, after you there is no more.

00:33:45.000 I said, okay, what does that mean?

00:33:49.000 I took me to Abraham, rich, no children, so when he died, all of his wealth goes to a servant.

00:33:56.000 I get out the shower, I look to my wife, I said, Nicole, do you pray for a child, specifically a boy?

00:34:04.000 She says, yeah, and I get angry because my wife almost died from, she got pregnant before little Jay, and she has a bicornery uterus, I hope I'm saying it correctly, where the egg went into a uterus that wasn't productive.

00:34:20.000 So if the child would have been born, my wife would have died and the baby.

00:34:25.000 So they were able to catch it.

00:34:27.000 So she had to have another miscarriage.

00:34:30.000 They had to stitch up this bicornuate uterus, but she could get pregnant.

00:34:33.000 But again, she could deal with the same issue of dying because she only has half of her uterus.

00:34:41.000 So I prayed with her.

00:34:43.000 Two weeks later, she gets pregnant.

00:34:46.000 At the five-month mark, Joe, I'm getting her something to eat.

00:34:49.000 She calls me, screaming and crying.

00:34:51.000 I said, what's going on?

00:34:53.000 Sharp pains in her stomach.

00:34:55.000 I said, we're about to lose another child.

00:34:57.000 I knew we shouldn't have got pregnant.

00:35:00.000 I go home.

00:35:01.000 As I'm going home, a car pulls up to me.

00:35:04.000 It's an older white woman.

00:35:05.000 She looks at me.

00:35:07.000 She says, hey, do you know where such and such is?

00:35:10.000 I can't remember.

00:35:11.000 And I told her.

00:35:12.000 She says, oh, by the way, don't lose the faith.

00:35:15.000 I said, what?

00:35:16.000 She says, don't lose faith.

00:35:18.000 It's going to be okay.

00:35:19.000 Just randomly.

00:35:20.000 Straight up, man.

00:35:21.000 You know, so those things I couldn't question.

00:35:24.000 We go to the hospital.

00:35:26.000 It's her appendix that ruptured.

00:35:29.000 The doctor said the timing was so perfect it was scary.

00:35:34.000 Only at that time in her pregnancy could he take my son out, then remove her appendix and put him back.

00:35:42.000 He took him out and put him back?

00:35:43.000 Yes, yes, man.

00:35:44.000 And so I'm like, so imagine now my son is in her.

00:35:48.000 We don't, all these drugs going in my wife for pain and we like, God.

00:35:52.000 Right.

00:35:52.000 When he was born, I didn't want to name him Jason because the name Jason means Hiller.

00:35:58.000 And if you're a Hiller, yeah.

00:36:00.000 Oh, yeah.

00:36:00.000 And I know being a Hiller, it comes with great pain.

00:36:04.000 So you have to be able to identify with people.

00:36:07.000 So I said, I'm not naming him Jason.

00:36:09.000 I'm gonna name him Jace.

00:36:11.000 When I saw his face and he was crying, I cried so much at the side of him, the nurses and the doctor were crying.

00:36:19.000 And I heard Mosai say, his name is Jason.

00:36:22.000 It's going to be tough, but that's his name.

00:36:27.000 So it brings me to this place in my life where...

00:36:33.000 I run into people that are hurting.

00:36:36.000 Last night, I'm at a restaurant here.

00:36:39.000 My waitress is smiling the entire time, and I'm like, wow, she's a happy person.

00:36:45.000 But me dealing with people, I know she's smiling because she's hurting.

00:36:51.000 Within seconds of our conversation, her eyes start watering.

00:36:55.000 I said, what's going on?

00:36:56.000 I said, you're hurting, aren't you?

00:36:59.000 Her mother died of cancer, was her best friend.

00:37:01.000 Her father had cancer.

00:37:03.000 Her siblings are all falling out because of that.

00:37:06.000 She's running from job to job, going from state to state to state.

00:37:11.000 She's running from her trauma.

00:37:13.000 And I says, you're going to have to let go and face it.

00:37:16.000 And I told her, I says, don't allow your trauma to time travel.

00:37:20.000 That's what we do.

00:37:21.000 We allow the things in the past to visit our present.

00:37:24.000 And so it affects us from living free in the moment.

00:37:28.000 And I hugged her.

00:37:30.000 And she really appreciated that I didn't just eat my dinner and walk out.

00:37:36.000 She says, no one stopped me to say that.

00:37:39.000 And she thanked me.

00:37:41.000 So those things, my man, I just, all of that culminated into me creating the cave.

00:37:48.000 I basically, I try to be a healer for boys and men to help you work through what's hurting, to get you past this facade of just always being strong.

00:38:01.000 You know some of the greatest fighters in the world.

00:38:03.000 No one can be strong all the time.

00:38:06.000 You know, we'll say to each other, stay strong, bro.

00:38:09.000 We're subconsciously telling each other that when you feel weak, something's wrong with you.

00:38:14.000 Yeah, the facade thing I think is very important for people to hear and talk about because men do like to put up that facade that they're never vulnerable.

00:38:23.000 There's never anything wrong.

00:38:25.000 And everyone knows it's bullshit.

00:38:28.000 Other men know it's not true.

00:38:29.000 So you're not tricking anybody.

00:38:32.000 You're just posturing.

00:38:33.000 And when you're posturing, it's really a weakness.

00:38:36.000 There's more strength in just being who you are.

00:38:39.000 And just because you have vulnerable moments or just because you're emotional or just because you're sad, it doesn't mean you're weak.

00:38:48.000 The way you overcome situations shows your strength.

00:38:53.000 But situations are going to happen.

00:38:55.000 You're going to have bad moments in your life.

00:38:56.000 And if you're not a robot, you're going to have extreme emotions.

00:39:00.000 You're going to have loss.

00:39:01.000 You're going to have love.

00:39:02.000 You're going to have all those things.

00:39:03.000 You can't be afraid of them.

00:39:05.000 And a lot of men are afraid of them because they think they should just be this stone-cold killer 24-7, all day long.

00:39:12.000 I mean, that's like, you know, I guess we get that from movies.

00:39:15.000 We get that from my fathers, our family.

00:39:17.000 Yeah, we get that from, yeah.

00:39:18.000 Yeah, and that's why I love when I see, I think it was Usman, he had fought.

00:39:23.000 I can't think of the guy's name.

00:39:25.000 I think it was not his last fight.

00:39:26.000 It was...

00:39:28.000 It was his training part, and I can't think of the guy's name from Brazil.

00:39:32.000 Gilbert Burns?

00:39:32.000 Yes.

00:39:33.000 And Gilbert was crying.

00:39:35.000 Yes.

00:39:35.000 And Usman dropped to his knees in respect.

00:39:38.000 Blew me.

00:39:38.000 I love that.

00:39:40.000 Yes.

00:39:40.000 Because it's showing comprehensive manhood.

00:39:42.000 Yes.

00:39:43.000 And, you know, how many men, you know, I'm guilty of.

00:39:46.000 When my wife come home, if I'm taking a nap, I jump up and start doing something.

00:39:51.000 I mean, seriously, it's like we're not supposed to rest.

00:39:53.000 Pretend you weren't napping?

00:39:54.000 I'm serious.

00:39:55.000 I know, I know that feeling.

00:39:56.000 Okay, and so when I shared that with her, she was like, is that what you do?

00:40:01.000 I'm like, yeah.

00:40:02.000 She says, I want you to rest.

00:40:04.000 But we, again, we identify ourselves with what we can do.

00:40:09.000 Like, I couldn't imagine what it takes to run a podcast like this.

00:40:14.000 How many hours you have to put in, plus your comedy shows and then the UFC commentary.

00:40:19.000 It's a lot of work.

00:40:21.000 And then if we're not careful, our whole identity gets wrapped up in that.

00:40:26.000 So when one of those things are too shut down, now we don't know how we can live.

00:40:32.000 Who are we really?

00:40:34.000 Who do they really love?

00:40:35.000 Right, who are you really?

00:40:37.000 A lot of people think that they are their accomplishments.

00:40:40.000 Your accomplishments just allow you to learn about yourself.

00:40:44.000 That's a good way to put that.

00:40:45.000 I like that.

00:40:46.000 Yeah, any difficult thing that you're doing in your life, and that's one of the things that I love most about martial arts, is that you're struggling in silence.

00:40:54.000 No one knows.

00:40:56.000 Your training partners know, but that's it.

00:40:58.000 There's a few people in a room who know, and they all know each other, and everybody's going through their own little struggles.

00:41:06.000 But the struggles, the self-imposed struggles, one of the beautiful things about martial arts Those self-imposed struggles make regular struggles easier.

00:41:14.000 They should.

00:41:15.000 I mean, but you probably know several black belts in a gym who are white belts in life.

00:41:21.000 There's a few of those out there.

00:41:23.000 So for me, I was always baffled by that, man.

00:41:26.000 I got friends who could choke you out in a matter of seconds or guys who can kick cups off your head.

00:41:32.000 But their relationships are a mess.

00:41:33.000 Thank you.

00:41:34.000 And I'm like, this is all for naught.

00:41:36.000 And that's why I love the samurai you have out there.

00:41:38.000 Oh, yeah.

00:41:39.000 Yeah.

00:41:39.000 I took pictures and stared at it for a while.

00:41:41.000 That's a real samurai.

00:41:44.000 That's a real armor from the 1800s.

00:41:47.000 You know, I want one.

00:41:48.000 That was a beautiful one.

00:41:49.000 I was like, so I thought about, because I talk about that in my book, Battle Cry, just waging this war within how the samurais love flowers.

00:41:58.000 Yes.

00:41:58.000 And the art of ikebana, floor arranging art.

00:42:02.000 Mm-hmm.

00:42:02.000 They loved it, but their masculinity or their manhood was never really challenged.

00:42:08.000 It was okay for them to be fond of these beautiful flowers because they had a short span.

00:42:15.000 And the samurai's life was short as well because of their profession, I guess, as their being a servant to whomever they served.

00:42:23.000 And then they're fighting and they possibly could die a lot faster than someone who wasn't a samurai.

00:42:28.000 They had an admiration for, I think it was called the sakura or the cherry blossom.

00:42:35.000 But at the same time, it was okay for them to like flowers.

00:42:39.000 Like myself, I would only buy flowers, Joe, for my wife or my mom.

00:42:46.000 But when I studied the psychological benefits of the colors of flowers in your home, I started buying them for myself.

00:42:54.000 And so here I am picking out flowers, and all these women in the store, like, are those for you?

00:43:00.000 I'm like, yeah, they're trying to flirt, but I'm married.

00:43:02.000 But they said, whoa, what is this?

00:43:04.000 I've never seen this before.

00:43:06.000 Right, you're buying flowers for yourself.

00:43:07.000 Yeah, and so my wife at first, she was like, oh, thanks for the flowers.

00:43:10.000 I'm like, oh, I said, no, these are mine.

00:43:13.000 So she got kind of offended, like, oh, okay, you know.

00:43:17.000 But those are the things.

00:43:19.000 So when I saw the samurai, and could you imagine that armor on one of those warriors?

00:43:24.000 And how fierce they look and how fierce they were.

00:43:28.000 But yet they still were.

00:43:29.000 The name samurai is just servant.

00:43:32.000 And even I studied the art for a short time, Yaido, the Japanese sword art.

00:43:38.000 The teacher was telling us how it was even a dishonor to butcher your opponent if you were fighting someone.

00:43:45.000 It was honorable that your cup would be as clean as possible so that they can die with mercy.

00:43:53.000 So even in that, there was some kindness.

00:43:57.000 And so I'm like, wow, this is missing so much from so many of the schools that I've trained in, you know, today.

00:44:04.000 And then you wonder why so many of us as men who are practitioners in the arts or whatever, even like sports, like football...

00:44:13.000 You're trained to let your anger out on the field, to hit things, to release anger.

00:44:17.000 No wonder domestic violence is high in the NFL. I never, to release anger or frustration, I don't use the arts for that.

00:44:27.000 I sit still and meditate and release and breathe.

00:44:31.000 Because, you know, especially in art, like a jujitsu, you can hurt someone really bad if you're not training and you're hurting and cranking an armbar too hard or whatever, you know.

00:44:41.000 So I've learned to release it in healthy ways.

00:44:45.000 And as men, man, we don't...

00:44:49.000 We don't release, you know, the anger and the frustration in a healthy way.

00:44:53.000 And then, unfortunately, when we come home, the people who love us and don't deserve it, they end up getting that into the stick.

00:45:00.000 And, you know, me and I talk to allow someone to slay sly remarks to them in public, and they won't say anything.

00:45:09.000 Then they come home, and their wife just asks a simple question about, just say anything, and they snap.

00:45:17.000 And so many good men feel it's wrong to check someone in the midst of a conversation in a respectful way.

00:45:25.000 One thing I had to learn, Joe, I love fine dining and my wife, we both love going out and enjoying each other's company.

00:45:32.000 The worst thing that can happen is to have a waiter or a waitress who is not good or just having a bad day.

00:45:40.000 I typically, prior to now, I would leave.

00:45:43.000 You know, we would have a bad experience.

00:45:45.000 And on the way home, I would be angry in the car that I allowed that to happen.

00:45:50.000 So now when I see a waitress who appears to be having a bad day, or a waiter, I say, excuse me, I say, it seems like, you know, you're not having a good day today, so can you please...

00:46:00.000 Usually switch us with someone else because me and my wife are paying for a great experience.

00:46:05.000 Almost always.

00:46:07.000 They say, I'm sorry sir, can I try again?

00:46:11.000 I say, sure, but can you tell me what's going on?

00:46:14.000 It's amazing, man, with the stories you hear, the weight that they carry, just being a waiter or a waitress, and they have to put all of that aside just to make us have a great experience.

00:46:25.000 And so I give them the freedom to talk and share with me.

00:46:28.000 One guy asked me to pray, and I said, well, I don't want to be disrespectful of this establishment.

00:46:33.000 So me and my wife grabbed our menus, and we were acting like we were ordering.

00:46:37.000 And I was praying for this young kid because he was stressed because he didn't think he could get into college.

00:46:42.000 And so he couldn't perform his job well.

00:46:46.000 But what if these people, especially men, knew it's okay for me to feel this way, but I need to release it before these thoughts make me toxic?

00:46:54.000 But just to have the tools to deal with adverse moments in your life, and have the tools to deal with emotions.

00:47:01.000 You know, the thing that you were talking about with the samurais, Have you ever read Miyamoto Musashi's writings?

00:47:10.000 The Book of Five Rings?

00:47:11.000 Yeah.

00:47:11.000 Absolutely.

00:47:12.000 One of the beautiful things about it is this is probably one of the greatest assassins the world's ever known.

00:47:19.000 I mean, he was a man who killed more than 60 men in one-on-one sword fights.

00:47:25.000 But his whole approach to everything was balance.

00:47:30.000 That you must have balance.

00:47:32.000 There cannot be these moments where you are overwhelmed with emotion.

00:47:37.000 Because that's how you die.

00:47:39.000 That's how you make mistakes.

00:47:41.000 And you cannot make mistakes in sword fighting.

00:47:43.000 In every other situation, if you make a mistake in jiu-jitsu, perhaps you could use good defense, you can get out of a bad situation.

00:47:50.000 You know, you maybe get caught and someone takes your back, like, oh, I know what I did there.

00:47:53.000 I muscled it, I rushed it.

00:47:55.000 You cannot do that in sword fighting.

00:47:57.000 And so because of that, he developed this incredibly balanced perspective that many samurai shared, that he studied calligraphy, he studied poetry, he would...

00:48:10.000 Tea.

00:48:11.000 That's an art.

00:48:12.000 That all these things, the discipline to be delicate, the discipline to understand beauty in nature and beauty in prose, and that this was what made him bounce, that he was not a brute,

00:48:28.000 that he was in control of all aspects of his life.

00:48:35.000 And that he approached them all with equal focus and discipline.

00:48:39.000 You know, once you understand the way broadly, you can see it in all things.

00:48:43.000 That was one of the great Miyamoto Musashi quotes.

00:48:46.000 And the idea that I got out of that is that like, what he learned, whether it's through Sword fighting or through any of the other disciplines that they were almost interchangeable that the the amount of focus that you put into each one of these things let you understand that there's there's a significant aspect of all things that are difficult That's similar and what that is is that they become better you become

00:49:16.000 better at them with full concentration and a full understanding of what they are and the best way is For him, and the way he described it in his writings, was that he had the same discipline, the same love, and the same passion for all these things that he did.

00:49:32.000 Whether it was carpentry, or whether it was flower arrangement.

00:49:38.000 That is how he maintained this balance.

00:49:43.000 But it was not an easy thing.

00:49:45.000 It's a discipline.

00:49:46.000 And he talks about...

00:49:48.000 How you have to focus and how you have to approach these various aspects of your life.

00:49:54.000 But he's talking about it from the perspective of a man who's teaching you how to be a great killer, which is really kind of amazing.

00:50:03.000 And for a lot of people, it seems counterintuitive.

00:50:07.000 It doesn't seem to make sense.

00:50:08.000 But what he's saying is, to be at your best You have to be in control of all these things.

00:50:15.000 He talked about, I think it was the principle of just being empty and being in a space where nothingness, that's what he called it.

00:50:24.000 And so we train in that as well.

00:50:27.000 Basically, if I'm fighting you, we call it combat communication.

00:50:31.000 I'm going to download your tendencies so I can use it against you.

00:50:35.000 But I also need to be in this space where We're good to go.

00:50:54.000 They say, Sharath, which just means servant in Hebrew, says, I'm tired.

00:50:58.000 I say, what does that have to do with right now?

00:51:00.000 Can that emotion help you right now in this moment?

00:51:03.000 They say, no, sir.

00:51:04.000 I say, when is the best time to be tired?

00:51:07.000 They say, when I'm at home sleep.

00:51:10.000 It's the same thing in fighting.

00:51:11.000 When you're dealing with the emotions and all these other things that's coming and telling you what you shouldn't do or who you are or you lost or he got a blow in or he got your back, It's hard for you to really be in a space where you can respond.

00:51:23.000 Now you're in a place where you're just reacting to everything.

00:51:26.000 In life, it's the same thing.

00:51:28.000 I try to walk around in a meditative state.

00:51:31.000 So meditation, if I only can sit still and meditate, it's useless for me.

00:51:38.000 I need to know how to use that if someone's trying to rob me.

00:51:41.000 A situation I had at our building with my son, a guy, I'm coming out of our building.

00:51:47.000 We just purchased this 15,000 square foot building for a non-profit.

00:51:50.000 At the time it had basketball rims before we built the cave gym for the martial arts.

00:51:56.000 I come out the door and I'm oblivious to my surroundings because I got comfortable.

00:52:01.000 I hear a voice say, they're trying to kill me.

00:52:05.000 I turn around, there's a guy on the cell phone, a younger guy, maybe in his 20s.

00:52:10.000 And I see my son.

00:52:11.000 I said, who is trying to kill you?

00:52:13.000 He says, they're coming around the corner.

00:52:16.000 So I draw my firearm.

00:52:18.000 I said, you're going to bring them around here to my son?

00:52:22.000 Joe, so this Suburban is coming.

00:52:24.000 Three guys in there.

00:52:25.000 I see him clearly.

00:52:27.000 And I'm keeping this guy in my peripheral.

00:52:29.000 So at this entire time, I had to steal my soul so I could have self-control.

00:52:34.000 And I can't have any emotions right now.

00:52:38.000 The lock, we hadn't changed it, man.

00:52:40.000 And for me, you know those tricky locks where you have to pull it out a little bit to turn it?

00:52:44.000 Imagine a car coming.

00:52:45.000 You don't know if they have guns or not.

00:52:48.000 And it's circling around.

00:52:50.000 And your son, your beloved son, is next to you.

00:52:52.000 And you need to get him in this building.

00:52:54.000 But you have to steal your nerves enough where you can get that key out just a centimeter and turn that lock.

00:53:01.000 I got him in, and to see my son's eyes look at me, he's scared.

00:53:05.000 I said, lock the door, go to the back of the building, I'll see you in a minute.

00:53:11.000 I didn't know if that was going to be my last time seeing him, but I couldn't entertain that emotion at that moment.

00:53:18.000 I got in the weaver's stance when that truck came around, and I used my truck as a barrier just in case they did start shooting.

00:53:27.000 They turned around again and went the other way.

00:53:30.000 So the guy on the phone, man, starts running across the street in their direction.

00:53:35.000 I said, so you're going to run in the same direction they're going in?

00:53:39.000 He said, well, I just got to get away.

00:53:42.000 I said, yeah, right.

00:53:44.000 I realized at that moment they were trying to steal my truck out front.

00:53:47.000 I was new to the neighborhood, but until I drew my firearm, that's when their plans changed.

00:53:54.000 But if I had been emotional, Say if I could have shot the guy and shot before they shot, whatever.

00:54:00.000 You see it all the time.

00:54:02.000 We make so many emotional decisions.

00:54:04.000 Now we're doing life in prison or a situation in Michigan where two road ragers get into an argument with their families, man.

00:54:12.000 They both were licensed to carry.

00:54:13.000 They pull over into a car wash and they get out and shoot and kill each other.

00:54:20.000 And so I wrote about that because I asked men, how would you feel in that moment?

00:54:27.000 You're dying in your own blood.

00:54:29.000 You're laying there.

00:54:31.000 What would you think?

00:54:33.000 Would you say, was it really worth it?

00:54:35.000 Was my ego worth protecting?

00:54:38.000 And these two men died, unfortunately.

00:54:41.000 It was a tragic story.

00:54:43.000 But I wish there was a way, as men, we could learn how to just de-escalate a situation.

00:54:49.000 And so, to your point about being in an empty space, And not allowing the emotions to rule you.

00:54:57.000 That moment was just a defining moment for me even as a teacher that I practiced what I taught.

00:55:04.000 Then when I went home, my wife says, seems like you're not cool.

00:55:08.000 I says, I'm not.

00:55:09.000 I need to release all that I just went through.

00:55:13.000 I was cool in that moment, but now I'm really overwhelmed emotionally.

00:55:18.000 So now I'm starting to feel, man, my life was in danger.

00:55:21.000 My son, I could have lost my son.

00:55:22.000 All these emotions started arising.

00:55:24.000 But I allow myself to release or reflect on what happened so that I can release and then reset, man.

00:55:31.000 As men, when we allow ourselves that time to do that process, We can respond to what's coming next.

00:55:39.000 But as long as we suppress and keep suppressing, keep suppressing, next thing you know we're depressed or we're anxious, we're angry when we shouldn't be.

00:55:47.000 So when our capacity is here, you know, someone could blow the horn at us, now we're cursing them out.

00:55:53.000 What do you do to reset if you're in a situation like that where you just had a life or death situation and now you're kind of overwhelmed?

00:56:01.000 Are you using meditation?

00:56:03.000 Yes.

00:56:04.000 So I meditate.

00:56:05.000 I breathe.

00:56:06.000 I allow myself just to release what I experience.

00:56:09.000 So basically, if I could hold on to it, I'd say, Omar, I'm cool, baby.

00:56:13.000 It wasn't nothing.

00:56:13.000 You know, I'm used to that.

00:56:15.000 I have to release it, maybe even cry if I need to in some situations.

00:56:19.000 I sit alone and cry.

00:56:20.000 I pray, of course.

00:56:22.000 I ask God's Spirit to move in me, His Holy Spirit to purge away all the trauma I've experienced because it has helped me to get this far.

00:56:32.000 And then to, again, have the freedom to feel in that moment.

00:56:38.000 Breathing is essential, okay?

00:56:41.000 So when I inhale, in my mind I'm thinking of everything that's happening.

00:56:48.000 Inhale through my abdomen and then exhale.

00:56:51.000 I'm exhaling everything that's negative that's really affecting me in a bad way.

00:56:56.000 But I'm very careful doing that process, Joe, because some of these things I need to keep.

00:57:02.000 So it's a process we call casting and keeping.

00:57:06.000 And it's called shalak meditation.

00:57:08.000 The word shalak literally means in Hebrew just to cast away.

00:57:11.000 So the things that are heavy, like a death of a loved one or pressure on my job or marital discord, what it may be, In a moment, I may need to cast some things away, but I may need to keep some things.

00:57:24.000 So say if I was a-hole to my wife or insensitive to her at a moment during the day, I don't need to just dismiss that because I need to be happy.

00:57:34.000 I need to think on that.

00:57:35.000 Why were you impatient with her?

00:57:37.000 Why did you talk to her that way?

00:57:39.000 Let's stay here for a moment, Jason, and let's dig a little deeper.

00:57:43.000 I was disrespectful because I remember how my father, I saw the way he would talk to my mom.

00:57:48.000 Or I can go recently, I don't think my wife trusts me and something she said offended me and I'm holding it against her.

00:57:55.000 When I release that, I release the negative to that, keep what I need to deal with and reconcile.

00:58:02.000 I go to my wife, Nicole, and say, hey, I'm sorry for talking to you that way.

00:58:07.000 Please forgive me.

00:58:08.000 You know my intention is not to hurt you.

00:58:11.000 My day is completely better, man.

00:58:14.000 Like with my wife, I can't...

00:58:17.000 I used to go days, man, arguing or just not speaking.

00:58:22.000 Then I saw it as something children would do.

00:58:25.000 Why would I go longer than some hours not talking to my wife?

00:58:29.000 That's what children do.

00:58:31.000 But as men, when we're not used to becoming verbal processors, we don't really know how to express what we're thinking in a way that doesn't come off combative.

00:58:40.000 Right, right.

00:58:41.000 And a lot of men do feel like it is weak to express those emotions and to admit fault.

00:58:46.000 Yeah, or, you know, I was telling the nurse out there—she was really cool, by the way—it's hard for me to hold my wife's hand to this day in public because of the way I grew up, you know?

00:58:57.000 Oh, I see what you're saying.

00:58:58.000 Yeah, so guys will rush you and test you.

00:59:00.000 What you doing with her?

00:59:00.000 She's too good.

00:59:01.000 She's too good for you.

00:59:03.000 That affected me.

00:59:04.000 That affected me, man.

00:59:05.000 And I'm like—and my wife is hilarious.

00:59:08.000 I say, look, when I'm out in public, I say, can you remind me to hold your hand?

00:59:13.000 She said, what good is that?

00:59:15.000 I mean, it's not sincere, but I have to remind you.

00:59:17.000 I said, Nicole, I'm asking you because I need help.

00:59:22.000 I need you to say, Jay, you told me that when we're out in public to remind you to hold my hand.

00:59:29.000 Here's an opportunity.

00:59:31.000 It's literally a war going on inside of me, Joe.

00:59:34.000 Don't hold her hand, man.

00:59:35.000 You'll be weak.

00:59:36.000 Remember what your brothers taught you growing up.

00:59:38.000 She'll use it against you.

00:59:39.000 And then the other side of me, it's like the cartoon you see, the good and bad angel on the shoulder.

00:59:44.000 But the good in me says, love her.

00:59:46.000 Love her from your heart.

00:59:47.000 Caress her.

00:59:48.000 Be romantic.

00:59:50.000 It's like going back and forth.

00:59:52.000 And eventually I'm like, okay, let's go.

00:59:57.000 I mean, seriously, that's what it is for me.

00:59:59.000 That's funny.

00:59:59.000 Because you're dealing with just old thoughts.

01:00:01.000 I let my trauma time travel, and I had to stop that.

01:00:06.000 And it's a process.

01:00:07.000 Men say, well, man, how did you get here?

01:00:09.000 I said, man, I'm a work in progress, man.

01:00:12.000 That's why I stay transparent on social media.

01:00:15.000 All of us are, right?

01:00:16.000 Yeah, I'm trying to grow.

01:00:17.000 I don't want you to look at me like I've got it.

01:00:19.000 I don't.

01:00:20.000 I'm aiming for that.

01:00:22.000 It's a constant, continuous process of growing, learning, and keep growing.

01:00:29.000 And when men see that, and I'm really encouraged.

01:00:33.000 When I get stopped, I was just in Santa Monica, California with my wife, and I hear someone say, man, I love your videos.

01:00:41.000 And I said, Nicole, did you hear that?

01:00:43.000 And she was like, yeah.

01:00:44.000 I said, I wonder if they're talking to me, but we kept driving.

01:00:46.000 It was a police officer on the bike.

01:00:48.000 He rides a Hispanic brother.

01:00:50.000 He says, hey, I love what you're doing.

01:00:52.000 Thank you.

01:00:52.000 It helps me make it through my day.

01:00:55.000 Before I pull off, Joe, A group of white young kids pull up next to me.

01:00:59.000 It had to be like 21 max.

01:01:01.000 I love what you're doing.

01:01:03.000 Thank you.

01:01:04.000 I said, all right, cool.

01:01:06.000 Thank you for stopping because it encourages me to not give up.

01:01:10.000 So people don't understand with me, and I'll be transparent with you.

01:01:13.000 What I do with boys, what I do desiring to help men and families, I love it, but it's a heavy weight.

01:01:24.000 My desire was never to be here on your show or anything, viral videos or anything.

01:01:30.000 I just wanted to shine my light in such a way that those who are in darkness can find their way out.

01:01:36.000 What's heavy about it when you say it's a heavy weight?

01:01:38.000 The compassion fatigue, man, meaning that's what nurses experience or doctors at war.

01:01:44.000 When you're constantly taking in trauma or people who are heartbroken, like the waitress last night, my heart, man, it breaks for people.

01:01:53.000 So when you really care or you love hard, like I do, you get worn out.

01:01:59.000 Yeah.

01:02:00.000 And then, you know, I'm not religious, man.

01:02:03.000 I'm not...

01:02:04.000 That tradition, all that stuff, I'm experiential with Yahushua, or Yahshua, Jesus, who they call Jesus.

01:02:12.000 I live it.

01:02:13.000 You know my faith by what I do, not by what I say.

01:02:18.000 And so, because I do it, I take on a lot, man.

01:02:24.000 And my wife...

01:02:26.000 Thank God I have her.

01:02:28.000 She prays for me.

01:02:30.000 She covers me.

01:02:31.000 I can cry to her.

01:02:32.000 She caresses my scalp because she knows I'm constantly under attack spiritually.

01:02:38.000 I could build a rocket ship out of wood, no gas, and I have no difficulty in doing it.

01:02:44.000 But let me try to teach, train, and transform boys.

01:02:47.000 Let me try to stop a man from divorcing his wife or abusing his wife.

01:02:53.000 Let me try to help men express themselves in good ways where they're no longer toxic to society.

01:03:04.000 I catch it every day.

01:03:06.000 What do you do to try to mitigate that?

01:03:09.000 What do you do to try to relax when you are dealing with the compassion fatigue?

01:03:16.000 Obviously you're on a path and that path resonates.

01:03:19.000 It's why I reached out to you.

01:03:21.000 I watch your videos and I see your sincerity and I see that you're really accomplishing something.

01:03:28.000 You're really reaching people.

01:03:29.000 So what do you do to sort of like relieve some of the pressure on yourself and to relax?

01:03:35.000 I love the guitar, you know.

01:03:37.000 Okay.

01:03:38.000 Yeah, I want to really be proficient in it.

01:03:40.000 It relaxes me.

01:03:42.000 Man, I can sit out in my driveway and I just play just a certain melody over and over again.

01:03:47.000 And then when the birds chirp, it's just I love just nature.

01:03:52.000 The beginning of, was it Gladiator?

01:03:55.000 Mm-hmm.

01:03:55.000 Yeah, when he was walking through the fields.

01:03:58.000 And so I had never seen the movie until a friend of mine says, that's you.

01:04:02.000 I said, what do you mean?

01:04:04.000 You're in a constant war, but your desire is to be at peace in this environment.

01:04:11.000 And so you saw him just running through the fields, just rubbing his hand through, what was it, like wheat?

01:04:16.000 Wheat, yes.

01:04:17.000 Yeah.

01:04:18.000 That's me, Joe.

01:04:19.000 I want that simple life.

01:04:22.000 Like, if I could just work at a hardware store.

01:04:24.000 I used to own a construction company.

01:04:25.000 I love building.

01:04:27.000 I could just work at a hardware store, get off work, go home and love my family.

01:04:31.000 I'm happy.

01:04:33.000 But I know I'm called to something much deeper.

01:04:36.000 And it chokes me up now.

01:04:40.000 Because it's not easy doing what you don't want to do because you want His will done through you.

01:04:51.000 I never chased anything, man.

01:04:53.000 We got a documentary coming out on my life.

01:04:55.000 I signed with Lawrence Fishburne's Film Company.

01:04:58.000 When the video went viral, a producer named Roy Bank reached out.

01:05:02.000 It was like, man, the world needs to see this.

01:05:06.000 I don't want all that attention, man.

01:05:09.000 It's going to be on one of the major platforms early next year.

01:05:12.000 I don't want that.

01:05:13.000 Are you worried about the extra pressure that that's going to bring?

01:05:18.000 The greatest pressure I was telling my wife is not necessarily me being canceled by the culture.

01:05:26.000 Because I don't...

01:05:27.000 Cancel me, it'd be a blessing.

01:05:29.000 I can go back to where I came and live my normal life, working with boys and loving my family.

01:05:34.000 The pressure, Joe, in a society where we're all in fight or flight, where no one seems to have integrity...

01:05:40.000 It's when I, as soon as I say, I represent the most high, everyone's looking at you like, uh-oh, I heard that before.

01:05:48.000 I seen that before.

01:05:51.000 I don't want to fail.

01:05:52.000 I don't want to give him another black eye.

01:05:55.000 You know, I had a bad experience growing up with religious people.

01:06:01.000 And it could be some of the most judgmental people in the world.

01:06:05.000 And the savior they talk about didn't die for religion.

01:06:10.000 He died for relationship.

01:06:12.000 And he tells us to love one another so that the world would know that he is real.

01:06:17.000 I've never seen anyone run from love.

01:06:22.000 And I know when you love hard, you're gonna get hurt.

01:06:28.000 I don't like getting hurt.

01:06:32.000 I just want my life just like everyone else.

01:06:34.000 I want to live my best life now.

01:06:38.000 My best life is simplicity.

01:06:41.000 But it's much bigger than me.

01:06:44.000 Men are in such dire need for someone to model it in a way where they're not judged, they're not condemned, where even their wives can say, look at them different.

01:06:58.000 Say, baby, come to me.

01:07:00.000 I'm here for you.

01:07:02.000 As men, when our mothers leave us when they pass away or when we get married, it was never intended for us not to have a nurturer.

01:07:11.000 Our wives are supposed to be that to us, and they desire it, but we won't let them in because, like you say, the culture and how we've been, I guess, conditioned.

01:07:21.000 And when my mother died and left me, even though I did a great job, I left it all on the floor with her, I still felt like I lost something.

01:07:32.000 And I allowed my wife to fill that void of being a nurturer and love me.

01:07:38.000 But even in that, the pressure you talk about, the stuff you have to deal with, man.

01:07:43.000 You know, I look at the media on Twitter and it's just like everyone is just aiming to hurt each other.

01:07:50.000 I'm telling you, man, it's like the culture and world is in fight or flight.

01:07:54.000 Where wisdom, reason is no longer even at the table anymore.

01:07:59.000 You know, when you're stuck in that mindset, love will always look like conflict.

01:08:04.000 And so, I don't want it, man.

01:08:09.000 I just want to do what I do.

01:08:12.000 But I know the world needs to see and hear I guess the message I have to bring, and it came from a lot of pain.

01:08:23.000 The reason I can be transparent is because I've been broken.

01:08:27.000 I prayed for it because I was in this way.

01:08:30.000 I didn't want to do this stuff, man.

01:08:31.000 I ran.

01:08:34.000 I always thought selling drugs could be an option for me.

01:08:37.000 You know what I mean?

01:08:38.000 Because if I didn't make it in music, I could do that.

01:08:41.000 I didn't want to do this, man.

01:08:42.000 It's a lot.

01:08:45.000 But you realize the impact it has on people.

01:08:47.000 When that cop pulls up next to you on the bicycle, when those kids are walking across the street and they're talking to you.

01:08:53.000 And I'm sure that's a normal occurrence for you.

01:08:55.000 Yeah, so that's why when I see, especially a man, for a man to come up to you and say, hey, can I just talk to you for a minute?

01:09:02.000 Thank you so much.

01:09:04.000 They don't know that keeps me going.

01:09:07.000 It keeps me going because...

01:09:11.000 It's hard, man.

01:09:12.000 It's like nights crying and then you get tons of messages from men who are suicidal.

01:09:20.000 I'm just at a track, man, and a doctor recognizes me.

01:09:23.000 Very successful.

01:09:25.000 Was going to kill himself.

01:09:28.000 And I said, well, you know, have you talked to anyone?

01:09:31.000 He says, yeah, but when I talk to him, they always say, well, think about your family.

01:09:36.000 Think about this.

01:09:37.000 He was like, well, what about me?

01:09:40.000 I said, you're right.

01:09:41.000 You're worth living.

01:09:44.000 Yes, we want to be here for our families.

01:09:46.000 We got to deal with ourselves first.

01:09:48.000 And as men, we feel we're so worthless.

01:09:52.000 Again, it's the point we were talking about earlier.

01:09:54.000 If we base our lives around what we do instead of who we really are, we'll never live fulfilled lives, man.

01:10:02.000 And so to have men crying in front of you, strong men.

01:10:08.000 I remember I was at a conference at this church.

01:10:10.000 There was a thousand men there.

01:10:12.000 And so again, I'm thinking this is just a black thing.

01:10:15.000 It was only three brothers, black men there.

01:10:18.000 The rest was my white brothers.

01:10:20.000 So we have a moment to talk outside after my discussion.

01:10:24.000 Men lined up, crying.

01:10:27.000 And these brothers wasn't no joke.

01:10:29.000 You can tell they were serious.

01:10:31.000 One guy asked me, he says, man, my son, I'm training him in MMA. He was a fighter.

01:10:37.000 And he says, but it seems like he's getting hard towards me.

01:10:41.000 Like, I can't.

01:10:42.000 I went to hug him the other day and he just kept his arm down.

01:10:47.000 I looked at him and I can tell, you know, you're a serious dude.

01:10:51.000 I said, I was going to buy a dog called a Connor Corso, or some people call him Kane Corsos.

01:10:57.000 And the breeder told me since I had kids, he said, listen, I need you, whenever this dog puppy drinks water, I want you to cradle him and feed him through a bottle.

01:11:06.000 I'm like...

01:11:07.000 What are you talking about?

01:11:08.000 I never heard of doing that.

01:11:09.000 He said, what you have to understand about this breed, he's already wired to protect you.

01:11:15.000 I need him to feel his other side.

01:11:18.000 He needs to be a nurturer as well because you have children.

01:11:20.000 I told that man that because I said, right now, you're only bestowing upon your son masculinity.

01:11:28.000 He needs to experience a father's love.

01:11:32.000 He needs to experience a father's nurturing.

01:11:34.000 He needs to experience a father's Patience.

01:11:39.000 Guidance.

01:11:40.000 This man broke down in front of me.

01:11:42.000 So when I see that, Joe, I take that in.

01:11:46.000 Yeah.

01:11:47.000 And another guy did another guy did another guy.

01:11:51.000 Yeah.

01:11:52.000 But when you go home, I grab my guitar and play.

01:11:57.000 And I just say, I can't wait till, you know, it's my time.

01:12:07.000 In this day of negative shit online, particularly like social media, I think it's one of the reasons why your videos resonate so much, because they are positive.

01:12:16.000 And you are trying to help kids.

01:12:19.000 You are trying to spread a good message for men.

01:12:21.000 You really are.

01:12:22.000 And that's why it resonates so much, because there's not a lot of that out there.

01:12:26.000 A lot of what you're seeing online is either people being really negative about things or trying to show you how great they got it.

01:12:34.000 Those are the two things you see a lot of on social media.

01:12:37.000 And I think it feels very empty to people.

01:12:40.000 So when they see something like that video, you helping that young boy get over his overwhelming emotions.

01:12:46.000 Or many of your other videos you have online.

01:12:49.000 I mean, you have tons of videos that are all about you reflecting about your path, reflecting about the meaning of these lessons and what you're getting out of things.

01:13:02.000 It's very important for people because...

01:13:06.000 That superficial shit and negative things in life, it's so easy to get sucked up in them.

01:13:11.000 It's so easy to get wrapped up in gossip and negativity and insults and all the stuff that you see constantly online, arguments, but they feel empty and hollow for people.

01:13:24.000 Whereas things that you're doing, those kind of videos, they feel nourishing.

01:13:28.000 They feel like some people are getting something out of them and it inspires them to want to be a better person.

01:13:34.000 One of the best things that a person can do for others is inspire those people to try to be a better version of themselves.

01:13:41.000 And for you, being transparent is so important too because you're not pretending to be some perfect person who's always been this way.

01:13:49.000 You're explaining your own battles, your own struggles with your emotions, with life, with stress, with pressure.

01:13:57.000 But honesty like that is very, very important.

01:14:01.000 It's very significant for people.

01:14:05.000 When they take that in, it really can improve them.

01:14:08.000 Thank you.

01:14:08.000 I appreciate you saying that.

01:14:10.000 I know, to their defense, I was telling one of the producers of the documentary, I saw a piece of it.

01:14:20.000 I said, wow, this is going to move so many people.

01:14:25.000 And I posted a video on TikTok.

01:14:29.000 Of just me and my son, I'm benching, and I'm teaching him how to spot me in the gym and in life.

01:14:34.000 This video has almost 4 million views.

01:14:38.000 And I looked through the comments, and it was so many millennials and Gen Z just saying, I wish I had a dad.

01:14:45.000 I wish my father was patient with me and teach me things.

01:14:50.000 And I called the producer.

01:14:51.000 I said, I get it now.

01:14:54.000 As a society, we've forgotten what love feels like and looks like.

01:15:01.000 And I get why I'm in this place and position and why I can't run from it.

01:15:08.000 And I'm not.

01:15:12.000 But, you know, it gets hard.

01:15:13.000 But that's what I'm saying.

01:15:14.000 So things like this is something that encouraged me to keep going.

01:15:17.000 When men stop me and say, hey, man, you know, I was going to get divorced, man.

01:15:21.000 And I saw this video and I wanted to.

01:15:25.000 Well, I bought your book.

01:15:25.000 I learned how to cry and I want to wage and win the war within.

01:15:29.000 How do I do these things?

01:15:32.000 It's just gas in my tank.

01:15:34.000 Keep going.

01:15:34.000 I know it's hard.

01:15:35.000 Keep going.

01:15:36.000 The training, so much has been taken away from me, Joe.

01:15:40.000 My mother, my friends, my brothers.

01:15:44.000 I love martial arts.

01:15:47.000 Torn meniscus.

01:15:48.000 My fibula head is unstable.

01:15:51.000 It pops out when I'm in a kneeling position.

01:15:54.000 The pain.

01:15:55.000 It's like, my God.

01:15:56.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:15:57.000 It's like, these things I love.

01:16:01.000 And it's like, focus on what you can do.

01:16:04.000 Your fibular head is unstable?

01:16:06.000 Yes.

01:16:06.000 And what happens?

01:16:08.000 So, when I get to a low position, just say if you're grappling or if you're just in a kneeling position, as soon as I stand up, man, it just pops out of socket.

01:16:17.000 And then it pops back in.

01:16:20.000 When you look at the structure of the knee, where's the damage at?

01:16:23.000 It's right on the side.

01:16:25.000 You know where the...

01:16:28.000 It's just right on the side of the knee, the fibula head, it's right there.

01:16:31.000 But the meniscus is torn, but that there, it makes it worse.

01:16:35.000 And then I have, I forgot, a Baker cyst as well, which one therapist believes that is causing a lot.

01:16:41.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

01:16:43.000 So the cyst is bleeding inside.

01:16:45.000 A lot of that happens from a meniscus tear.

01:16:48.000 So you can get that drained.

01:16:49.000 I've had cysts drained.

01:16:51.000 I've had my right knee drained like 15 times.

01:16:55.000 I tore my meniscus a couple years ago on my right knee and I had it drained a bunch of times.

01:16:59.000 It doesn't happen anymore.

01:17:02.000 It's sort of stopped.

01:17:03.000 I had a bunch of stem cell shots in there.

01:17:05.000 But you can do some things to strengthen the knee that'll keep it from being so unstable.

01:17:11.000 There's a...

01:17:12.000 I'm bringing this guy up again.

01:17:14.000 I bring him up all the time.

01:17:16.000 Knees over toes guy on Instagram has an amazing workout.

01:17:20.000 You ever seen him?

01:17:21.000 I got that from you.

01:17:22.000 Yeah, there you go.

01:17:24.000 It's amazing.

01:17:25.000 I did that today.

01:17:25.000 I did his workout this morning, actually.

01:17:28.000 And it works, man.

01:17:29.000 Oh, yeah, it works.

01:17:30.000 It makes perfect sense because...

01:17:31.000 It really does.

01:17:32.000 I was...

01:17:32.000 During the CrossFit era, I tried that, and the whole thing was to shift your hips back and knees stay behind the toes.

01:17:40.000 Yes.

01:17:41.000 But it's not a functional movement for us especially.

01:17:45.000 Or for basketball players and that's where he learned it from.

01:17:48.000 He developed it because he loves basketball and he was constantly dealing with injuries and he had multiple surgeries on his knees.

01:17:56.000 And through trying to figure out what's the best way to strengthen his knees and figure out where the problems lie, he realized that there are people who teach a different method of strengthening the knee and he went all in on that and learned it and now he has more than how many thousand success stories?

01:18:18.000 He's got an incredible amount of success stories with knee rehabilitation and recuperation, but he's helped me tremendously.

01:18:24.000 His workouts have helped me tremendously.

01:18:27.000 And he does it very slowly.

01:18:29.000 2,200 knee success stories.

01:18:32.000 His name's Ben Patrick.

01:18:34.000 It's Knees Over Toes Guy on Instagram.

01:18:36.000 And here's what I really love about this guy.

01:18:39.000 He gives away all these coaching tips on Instagram for free.

01:18:43.000 And he said the reason why he does that is because he would want them to be available to him when he was 10 years old, and so he thinks about it the same way.

01:18:53.000 So the guy is incredibly fit, and he performs all these amazing physical feats.

01:19:03.000 The guy can dunk, he can do this wild shit where he can jump up in the air and drop all the way down to his knees.

01:19:11.000 This is just his high jump, but he shows this incredible dexterity and flexibility and strengthening.

01:19:19.000 This is what I love the best.

01:19:21.000 He drops all the way down like this and then all the way back up.

01:19:25.000 That's very difficult to do.

01:19:27.000 He's got this program where you start very slow, so he's not pushing you in a way that you're going to injure yourself.

01:19:33.000 You start very slow, and he has steps and stages, and you work your way up to what he calls dense strength in the knees and all the stabilizing muscles around the knees.

01:19:45.000 It's helped me.

01:19:47.000 Coleon, Coleon Noir, he does that program.

01:19:49.000 I know a lot of people that do his program.

01:19:52.000 I know, it's incredible.

01:19:53.000 And again, here's a guy that's had many, many knee surgeries.

01:19:57.000 So he's like, it says there, the human knee extension enters the equation in my third program and provides a scalable route with four levels of getting stronger Strong in the deepest knee bend, which follows the clues of magic revealed by strength through length.

01:20:14.000 And his whole thing is about range of motion and strengthening your knee through the entire range of motion.

01:20:21.000 And he also, he and I have been talking about shoulder.

01:20:23.000 Look at that, it's me and him talking about it.

01:20:25.000 Corey Sanhagen.

01:20:27.000 I'm a big fan of the guy.

01:20:28.000 A big fan of his philosophy of giving away all this information and letting people know that there's a way out of this.

01:20:38.000 The traditional methods of strengthening the legs are great, but they don't stabilize the knee as well as they could, and his methods are far better.

01:20:47.000 So I can just go to his Instagram and learn about his programs?

01:20:51.000 Yeah, a ton of his stuff is available for free online on his Instagram.

01:20:55.000 And he talks about it in depth and he explains why these individual exercises are good for strengthening different aspects of your knee.

01:21:03.000 And there's a few real simple tools that you could get to work with.

01:21:10.000 One of them is this thing called, well he has a slant board which is huge.

01:21:15.000 And this slant board, it's just a small board that's at an angle so that your toes are pointed downward so that when you bend forward, your knees are really over your toes and it really aids you in strengthening that.

01:21:26.000 Another thing he has, there's a product that he uses all the time called That's the Tib Bar.

01:21:31.000 That thing's fantastic too.

01:21:32.000 And it forces you to...

01:21:35.000 You're doing like these curls using your feet.

01:21:38.000 And you're strengthening all those muscles that are on your shins and beside your shins.

01:21:43.000 That also stabilizes your knee.

01:21:46.000 And then he's got this other thing that they use a lot called a monkey foot.

01:21:50.000 And what a monkey foot is, it's like...

01:21:52.000 It's a thing that straps onto your sneaker and it allows you to put a dumbbell inside of it and from there you can do leg lifts, you do leg raises, you do leg extensions and curls.

01:22:03.000 So it's like it allows you to grab a dumbbell the same way you would grab one with your arm Where you could do like tricep extensions or curls and strengthen your biceps and triceps.

01:22:12.000 But this allows you to do it with your leg.

01:22:14.000 So it clamps on to the bottom of your foot, straps in place, and then you could use that for individual leg curls, leg extensions, leg lifts, which strengthens all of your hip flexor muscles.

01:22:27.000 Amazing stuff.

01:22:28.000 What is that called?

01:22:28.000 It's called a monkey foot.

01:22:29.000 What is it?

01:22:30.000 Athletic Truth Group?

01:22:31.000 Who has that?

01:22:32.000 Yeah, it's his thing, but...

01:22:33.000 What is the company that has...

01:22:35.000 TTG is right.

01:22:37.000 Right, but what is the company that sells the monkey foot?

01:22:41.000 And it's not expensive.

01:22:43.000 Yeah.

01:22:43.000 Yeah, Animal House Fit.

01:22:44.000 That's what it is.

01:22:45.000 Creators of Monkey Feet.

01:22:47.000 And if you see that, scroll down there, James, so you can see what it looks like.

01:22:50.000 That's what it looks like right there.

01:22:52.000 I love that thing.

01:22:53.000 Yeah, show if there's a video there.

01:22:56.000 There's probably a video there.

01:22:58.000 Yeah, see, there you go.

01:22:59.000 So seriously, this woman doing leg lifts.

01:23:02.000 So she's standing on a platform.

01:23:04.000 It looks like she's standing on a bench.

01:23:05.000 And she's lifting up.

01:23:07.000 And that is tremendous for kicking strength and for the hip flexor muscles.

01:23:14.000 It's also great for running.

01:23:16.000 It improves your speed for running.

01:23:18.000 Yeah, yeah, leg extensions.

01:23:21.000 It's an amazing tool, and it's cheap.

01:23:23.000 You know, not expensive at all, but really well engineered, well designed, and the best thing that I've ever found for strengthening the leg, you know, as an individual unit, the way you would do your arms.

01:23:33.000 Look at how he's doing these leg curls.

01:23:35.000 It's amazing.

01:23:36.000 Amazing for strengthening.

01:23:37.000 And you can go through a full range of motion.

01:23:39.000 Like, look how he's dropping down for a squat and then up with the knee.

01:23:43.000 So many different exercises you could do.

01:23:45.000 It's one of the best tools that I've ever found just for strengthening your legs.

01:23:50.000 He's doing it with the bridge right there.

01:23:52.000 Yeah.

01:23:53.000 Tremendous.

01:23:54.000 Thanks, man.

01:23:54.000 Should I get two or just one?

01:23:57.000 I just have one.

01:23:57.000 I just use one at a time.

01:23:59.000 But all his programs could really help you with your knee.

01:24:03.000 I need that, man.

01:24:04.000 And then, you know, we get a little leery of going in certain positions, and I'm thankful.

01:24:09.000 I got a great coach.

01:24:10.000 He's 20 year or more black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Tyrone Gooden.

01:24:15.000 And he really helps me out a lot.

01:24:17.000 And he's a great teacher of principle.

01:24:19.000 And so that's what I love when I do privates with him.

01:24:21.000 He helps coaches me through a lot of that.

01:24:24.000 But I do need to do what you're doing because, you know, again, I'm leery.

01:24:29.000 It's like, man, I don't want to be in a situation that need pop out again.

01:24:33.000 And I need it.

01:24:35.000 I got to go to work still.

01:24:36.000 I believe you.

01:24:37.000 I get it, man.

01:24:38.000 I've had three new surgeries.

01:24:40.000 I've had both my ACLs reconstructed.

01:24:44.000 I had a meniscus surgery on my left knee.

01:24:46.000 Did that help?

01:24:47.000 The meniscus surgery?

01:24:48.000 Yeah, I needed it at the time because I had what's called a bucket handle tear where it tore and flipped over and kind of locked in place.

01:24:55.000 They tried to repair it at one point in time, stitch it together, but it just kept tearing.

01:24:59.000 So they eventually took a piece of the meniscus out.

01:25:02.000 Not too much.

01:25:03.000 But then stem cells and platelet-rich plasma and a bunch of things helped heal it up.

01:25:09.000 But I've had no problems with it.

01:25:11.000 Oh yeah.

01:25:11.000 It was pretty bad.

01:25:12.000 But my right knee, I didn't do that.

01:25:15.000 It's not as bad a tear.

01:25:17.000 My right knee, the tear, it's still there, but I have full function.

01:25:21.000 So even with grappling, you're fine?

01:25:23.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:25:23.000 No problem.

01:25:25.000 I have to warm up.

01:25:27.000 That's a big part of it.

01:25:29.000 I have to warm up.

01:25:31.000 A lot of injuries you get.

01:25:33.000 I tore my meniscus in a kicking contest with my friend.

01:25:37.000 I had this machine at the old studio where you kick it and it registers how hard.

01:25:43.000 That video is everywhere, man.

01:25:46.000 I fucked my meniscus up in that video.

01:25:48.000 I'm wearing jeans like an idiot.

01:25:51.000 52 years old, throwing power kicks without warming up.

01:25:54.000 So I'm 51, and I threw my back out on this trip to California recently.

01:26:00.000 I'm just trying to stay in shape, you know, so I'm running up hills in Malibu.

01:26:04.000 Okay.

01:26:06.000 Again, getting overhyped.

01:26:07.000 Instead of walking down, I run down.

01:26:10.000 Oh, that's a lot of pounding.

01:26:12.000 Yeah.

01:26:13.000 Man, the next day, I couldn't hardly move.

01:26:15.000 Thankfully, I found a good chiropractor in Beverly Hills who helped me greatly.

01:26:20.000 But man, the age piece is really big.

01:26:23.000 And then it's like, man, how much longer do I have for being hands-on in the cave training these boys?

01:26:30.000 And so I have other young men, my assistant Chris, who's been with me since 2011. The fighting piece, learning how the techniques, we don't do a lot because, again, our goal is not to create martial artists, but men with martial hearts.

01:26:45.000 Basically, men who allow themselves to feel and will fight everything that will prevent them from expressing how they truly feel.

01:26:53.000 But yet still you want them to be able to defend themselves against bullying, against a threat, whatever.

01:26:58.000 So we got to make sure what we do teach them is solid and really works.

01:27:02.000 So you have to be active.

01:27:04.000 You have to be able to get out there and do it.

01:27:05.000 And I have to do it.

01:27:06.000 And then the principles.

01:27:07.000 How, you know, at any moment, you know, I got to take advantage of teachable moments.

01:27:12.000 Like, you know, one video, one of my recruits, Elijah, we were training and I was teaching them just how to fall.

01:27:19.000 With the kids, we bring them down gently and teach them how to break fall.

01:27:24.000 And he kept saying...

01:27:25.000 No, he stopped.

01:27:26.000 He said, I'm hurt, sir.

01:27:27.000 I said, where are you hurting at?

01:27:29.000 And he says...

01:27:30.000 He looks at me, and I look at him.

01:27:32.000 I did like this.

01:27:33.000 He says, I'm nervous, sir.

01:27:35.000 So at that moment, I say, okay, good.

01:27:38.000 I say, now, as men, it's messed up that we can't just say we're nervous.

01:27:42.000 We have to, like you say, put on the facade that everything is cool.

01:27:45.000 I said, I want you to go back.

01:27:47.000 So I said, go back to your corner.

01:27:48.000 Now rush at me.

01:27:50.000 He grabbed me.

01:27:51.000 I said, say I'm nervous.

01:27:52.000 He says, I'm nervous.

01:27:53.000 I said, yell it.

01:27:54.000 I'm nervous.

01:27:55.000 So I kept trying to sling him.

01:27:56.000 Now his grips were stronger than ever and he wouldn't fall.

01:28:01.000 And I said, you see the difference?

01:28:02.000 He says, yes.

01:28:03.000 I said, always release it or not it's going to control you.

01:28:07.000 Don't hang on to it.

01:28:09.000 I don't want to miss those moments.

01:28:11.000 But then, I like Henna Gracie said it really good, talked about the older guys in his school, how they have to pass the guard or something when you have to know when a certain season is over.

01:28:22.000 And so for me, our academy is like, I got a great assistant.

01:28:27.000 And you know, sometimes as a leader, you can stay too long.

01:28:31.000 And I don't want to do that.

01:28:33.000 And I have to allow him to step into my space because I know I'll be 51 this year.

01:28:38.000 And it's like, My body, things have to change.

01:28:42.000 I'm right there with you, man.

01:28:43.000 Yeah, man.

01:28:44.000 You can do a lot, though.

01:28:45.000 You can do a lot as long as you do it smart and as long as you strengthen all of the areas where they're vulnerable, like your back.

01:28:53.000 One of the things that I do, I do a lot of core exercises.

01:28:57.000 I do a lot of back extensions.

01:28:59.000 I use a machine called the Reverse Hyper.

01:29:02.000 I have a machine from, well, I have one from Rogue at my old studio, and then I have one at my house.

01:29:08.000 It's from Sorenx.

01:29:10.000 It's called, he calls it like a Frankenhyper.

01:29:12.000 So it's like you can do chin-ups and leg extension, chin-up and back extensions this way, and then the other way it works.

01:29:19.000 Do you know what a reverse hyper is?

01:29:20.000 Oh, yes.

01:29:21.000 So the beautiful thing about the reverse hyper is it allows your body to use weight to actively decompress your spine while strengthening the muscles around it.

01:29:32.000 And it was created by Louie Simmons from Westside Barbell because Louie, who's a mad scientist, a genius with power lifting and stuff, he had a bulging disc in his back and they wanted to operate on him and fuse his discs.

01:29:45.000 And so him thinking about things like, okay, something's compressing it, and that's what's causing this disc to bulge.

01:29:51.000 I need to figure out how to lengthen it.

01:29:54.000 I need to figure out how to decompress it and then strengthen all the surrounding tissue to make sure that it stays in place.

01:30:00.000 So he developed this machine called the Reverse Hyper.

01:30:03.000 Since I've been using that, I have had no back problems.

01:30:06.000 Or if I do have a back problem, it's very minor and it goes away quickly.

01:30:10.000 So I thought you were talking about just a regular hyperextension.

01:30:13.000 No, this is, well, this is, he's using it here with, this is with his upper body.

01:30:18.000 But find out, is this the Sorenx one?

01:30:20.000 Yeah.

01:30:20.000 So that's the back extensions, right?

01:30:23.000 You can use it that way, but then you use it as a reverse hyper where you're facing the other, see if you can find it where he's using it the right way.

01:30:32.000 Nope.

01:30:33.000 Nope.

01:30:34.000 He's just got a bunch of different exercises.

01:30:36.000 Pull the Louie Simmons one.

01:30:38.000 There it goes.

01:30:39.000 Well, that's the Rogue Donkey, which is like their same sort of thing.

01:30:42.000 It's like a reverse hyper with more shit on it.

01:30:44.000 Oh, Rogue has one as well?

01:30:46.000 Just find a reverse hyper.

01:30:47.000 Just put in reverse hyper.

01:30:49.000 So this machine that Louis...

01:30:51.000 That's it right there.

01:30:52.000 So this machine that Louis created, that's Mark Bell.

01:30:57.000 Shout out to Mark Bell.

01:30:59.000 So he's going to get on and show how it works.

01:31:01.000 So during the descending, your back is actually decompressing.

01:31:06.000 And then in the ascending, as you're lifting up, it's strengthening all those lower back muscles.

01:31:12.000 And then as you're dropping down, it's actually pulling on your back and separating it.

01:31:18.000 And so, really good at strengthening all the back muscles, but also decompressing the entire spinal column.

01:31:26.000 I love it.

01:31:27.000 You don't have an inversion table at home.

01:31:29.000 That's great, too.

01:31:30.000 Yeah.

01:31:31.000 I've never seen that, man.

01:31:32.000 Yeah, that is the shit.

01:31:34.000 That thing's huge.

01:31:35.000 It's really important, because it's the only way you could actually add weight And decompress naturally, and then on the ascending, as you're lifting your legs up, you're strengthening all those muscles.

01:31:47.000 So on the descending, it's really pulling and stretching, but it's also strengthening.

01:31:53.000 Amazing.

01:31:54.000 Amazing piece of equipment.

01:31:56.000 That's a thing I have at home, too.

01:31:58.000 That's called a DEX inversion.

01:32:00.000 Well, you could definitely do back extensions with that, too, but that thing is tremendous.

01:32:05.000 That's also by Teeter, the same company that makes those inversion tables.

01:32:09.000 I'm a giant fan of that company, but this is my favorite machine.

01:32:12.000 I have one of these at home.

01:32:14.000 You can do all kinds of things from it, but the hanging part, like this, is the best.

01:32:20.000 So you put your legs like that, like a leg curl, and you lean forward, and it hangs you right from your hips.

01:32:26.000 It just really decompresses the spine.

01:32:29.000 Like when I get in there, I hear it go like pop, pop, pop.

01:32:32.000 Like it's all just relaxing and loosening up.

01:32:35.000 Tremendous, tremendous piece of equipment.

01:32:37.000 I may need to replace my inversion table because I get the same benefit, but it's more compact.

01:32:42.000 Right.

01:32:43.000 It's more compact, and you can do other things, like you can do back extensions and exercises with it.

01:32:48.000 I prefer that.

01:32:48.000 I have an inversion table as well, but I prefer that DEX over the inversion table.

01:32:53.000 What is that called?

01:32:53.000 The DEX2, is that what it is?

01:32:55.000 Yeah, the DEX2. It's from the same company, TETER, D-E-X-2, Inversion Core Training System.

01:33:02.000 I'm a giant fan of that.

01:33:04.000 And what I also like about that is it allows you to completely relax, whereas when I hang from my ankles, although it's very beneficial, I feel like my legs are tightening up to try to support me, and it's more difficult to completely relax my back and let it stretch out.

01:33:19.000 With that, you're hinging from the hips, And so as you hinge from the hips, your weight is really on your upper thighs.

01:33:26.000 And so from your hip forward, you can go completely loose.

01:33:31.000 And you really feel it, like stretch out your back and relax everything.

01:33:36.000 Thanks, man.

01:33:37.000 I love it.

01:33:37.000 I got a lot here, man.

01:33:38.000 Yeah, but that's what old guys like us have to do, man.

01:33:41.000 We have to keep everything strong.

01:33:43.000 Do you still float?

01:33:44.000 Do you still float?

01:33:45.000 Yeah, floating is giant.

01:33:46.000 I haven't done that in a while because I don't have a tank out here, but there's a few places that you could do where you could rent space out here.

01:33:52.000 And they're actually putting one in right down the street.

01:33:54.000 Well, it's a place in Michigan called Inception.

01:33:57.000 It's the first mental health gym.

01:33:59.000 And that's when I first got hip to it.

01:34:01.000 And he's a big fan of yours, David McCullough.

01:34:04.000 Shout out to David.

01:34:05.000 Yeah, I was in the tank and it's amazing how my entire body was able to relax.

01:34:10.000 I never experienced anything like it.

01:34:13.000 And then he couples it with brain training, neurofeedback.

01:34:17.000 So now I'm able to let my mind release a lot and so I'm thankful to NeuroOptimal.

01:34:22.000 They gave me a brain training unit for free because of the work I do with boys in Detroit.

01:34:28.000 And it allows me to reset.

01:34:31.000 It's like a mirror for your brain to see what's going on and it allows your brain to reset.

01:34:36.000 And those things, that's what I also do besides playing the guitar that helps me reset as well.

01:34:42.000 Floating the brain training and the guitar.

01:34:45.000 But the key thing is, and I don't know if you experienced this, is, again, I'm not perfect, you know, where I'm at.

01:34:51.000 I'm striving to become better each day.

01:34:54.000 I catch myself, again, fighting to pull out of this work is my identity mold, you know?

01:35:02.000 And then next thing you know, I only give myself two minutes to play, three minutes to play the guitar.

01:35:07.000 Because you got to get back to work.

01:35:08.000 There you go.

01:35:08.000 And it's like, man, Jay, you know better than this.

01:35:11.000 Stop it and do better.

01:35:14.000 That work is my identity thing is a real trap, right?

01:35:16.000 It is.

01:35:17.000 It's major, man.

01:35:18.000 I mean, I used to work for a non-profit like 16-hour days, man.

01:35:22.000 And it's like, you're killing yourself.

01:35:24.000 You know, it's just too much, you know.

01:35:27.000 And so...

01:35:27.000 Think of all the men that don't have a platform to share this and what they're going through.

01:35:33.000 And some men have two jobs, three jobs, just trying to make ends meet.

01:35:36.000 Or men who run companies.

01:35:38.000 You know, being entrepreneurs, a lot of work.

01:35:41.000 And scared the business is going to fail and how that will make them look and so they don't rest.

01:35:46.000 Yeah, that's a big factor and that's why they die of heart attacks in their 50s.

01:35:51.000 And I often say, like, I don't know if you notice, a statistic says that, what is it, people who live over 100, 9 out of 10 are women.

01:36:04.000 So even if you're on social media, I've seen, especially on Facebook, you'll see grandma celebrating 101, you know, birthday and things like that.

01:36:14.000 When have you seen an old man, a hundred and anything?

01:36:17.000 Super rare.

01:36:18.000 Yeah.

01:36:18.000 And that's because we work ourselves to death, man.

01:36:22.000 I talk about rest now or rest in peace.

01:36:26.000 And so we don't do it a lot.

01:36:29.000 And so people say, I want to wage the war within.

01:36:32.000 And when?

01:36:33.000 I'm like, well, you got to rest.

01:36:35.000 Yeah.

01:36:35.000 You know, you got to recuperate.

01:36:36.000 You wouldn't, if you had, who was the best, I don't know, basketball player, I don't, let's just say LeBron right now, or Giannis, and they're injured.

01:36:45.000 You wouldn't throw them back on the courts, they were injured.

01:36:48.000 Right.

01:36:48.000 But we as men feel that we can keep going and keep going, and it's not healthy for our brains.

01:36:54.000 That's one of the biggest problems with jiu-jitsu guys, is they'll train injured.

01:36:57.000 They love jujitsu so much that they got something wrong with their shoulder or something wrong with their knee and they just wrap it up and try to train light or try to train around it.

01:37:08.000 There's times where you have to back off of sparring and just use that time to rest.

01:37:14.000 You gotta relax.

01:37:15.000 You gotta heal.

01:37:16.000 Again, I do it for my mind more so than my body a lot of times.

01:37:20.000 And then taking naps, man, a power nap does me great benefits because 15 minutes or 20 minutes, I feel like I slept for three hours, and I'm invigorated, you know, I'm more focused, and I tell my brothers, just take a little nap,

01:37:36.000 go in your car, take 15 minutes, but again, it's like kryptonite for us, you know, it's like, well, no one can see me taking a nap because they think I'm weak, you know, and so...

01:37:46.000 Well, the tank for me is way more beneficial than even just a nap.

01:37:50.000 If I can get in a tank for an hour, I feel like I slept for eight hours, like...

01:37:54.000 And there's also the Epsom salts aspect of it.

01:37:57.000 Because of the salt that's in the tank, your body gets all this magnesium that absorbs through the skin.

01:38:02.000 And so everything just feels loose and comfortable.

01:38:05.000 That's amazing.

01:38:05.000 Isn't one hour equivalent to four hours of deep sleep?

01:38:09.000 Supposedly.

01:38:09.000 I mean, but I don't know how they're doing those.

01:38:11.000 I got you out of here.

01:38:12.000 They might be just saying that to sell tanks.

01:38:15.000 So you have your own?

01:38:16.000 Yeah, yeah, I have my own.

01:38:17.000 That's awesome, man.

01:38:18.000 Yeah, I love it.

01:38:20.000 But again, like, you know, I'm one of their ambassadors, you know, because of the work I do.

01:38:24.000 I can go at any time.

01:38:26.000 That's great.

01:38:26.000 But I don't.

01:38:27.000 You should.

01:38:28.000 I'm just being transparent.

01:38:29.000 Yeah, I know.

01:38:29.000 I get it.

01:38:30.000 So, but again, we all deal with this, like, it's out my way.

01:38:34.000 It's another 20 minutes, and then I got another hour there.

01:38:37.000 But I'm worth it.

01:38:38.000 Right.

01:38:39.000 You see?

01:38:40.000 Yeah, you just gotta schedule it.

01:38:41.000 You know, make it like once or twice a week.

01:38:44.000 Just make it a thing that you have to do it.

01:38:46.000 Put it on the schedule.

01:38:47.000 I have to fight myself.

01:38:49.000 Yeah.

01:38:50.000 I'm serious.

01:38:50.000 It's like, you know, the time.

01:38:54.000 And then with the cave, it's just so big, man.

01:38:56.000 I just be like...

01:38:57.000 So you have 500 kids that are on the waiting list, huh?

01:39:00.000 Yeah, almost five.

01:39:01.000 Yeah, pretty much.

01:39:02.000 Yeah.

01:39:02.000 How do you...

01:39:04.000 Deal with that.

01:39:05.000 It seems like for a guy like you that would probably really eat at you that there's 500 kids you can't reach.

01:39:10.000 So think about we purchased a building to open it up so we can bring more kids in.

01:39:15.000 Then COVID happened.

01:39:17.000 So that's why it kept growing.

01:39:21.000 So I'm hoping that things don't go crazy again and we can do in person because they need that interaction.

01:39:30.000 So that was a big deal.

01:39:33.000 So yeah, of course you get the emails from parents.

01:39:35.000 I've been on the waiting list for four years, things like that.

01:39:39.000 So it was imperative that we created a 24-week curriculum so that the kids can come in, get the training, and then we can bring more kids in.

01:39:47.000 So once COVID relaxes, you think you'll be able to accommodate all those kids on that waiting list at the new facility?

01:39:53.000 We can start the process, absolutely.

01:39:55.000 And again, the kids now, they were fortunate.

01:39:58.000 They were there in the beginning.

01:39:59.000 So I have kids that's been there since 2013 that don't want to leave.

01:40:03.000 But the goal is for you to reach a certain age.

01:40:06.000 We said manhood at 12 when you turn 13. And now we need you to take this training and apply it to life.

01:40:13.000 Anyone can be great on a mat, but can you apply this in life?

01:40:17.000 Can you become a better son?

01:40:19.000 Can you keep a job?

01:40:21.000 Can you excel at that job?

01:40:22.000 We teach dining etiquette as well.

01:40:24.000 How do you dine at a table?

01:40:26.000 What belongs on the right?

01:40:28.000 What belongs on the left?

01:40:30.000 We have job training skills.

01:40:32.000 We do teach them how to make drones.

01:40:34.000 So the CAVE is just a foundation where we can send these boys out into other fields.

01:40:39.000 If you want to be an intern, we have lawyers say, look, I take one of your boys because I know I don't have to worry about them being disciplined.

01:40:46.000 That's excellent.

01:40:47.000 That's really amazing.

01:40:48.000 That's such a great service to provide for the community and so important for young men.

01:40:55.000 And the martial arts aspect of it is so critical.

01:40:59.000 You know, I was very fortunate when I was younger that I found a very good martial arts school.

01:41:04.000 And I was at the Jaehyun Kim Taekwondo Institute in Boston.

01:41:07.000 And one of the things that they had on their tenants of the school when they were explaining it, they said that martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.

01:41:17.000 And that through the difficulty of martial arts, you'll find out what you can do in life.

01:41:22.000 That's the truth.

01:41:23.000 That's the truth.

01:41:24.000 I'm living proof.

01:41:26.000 And it's amazing, you know, the benefits, especially in Taekwondo, because there's a lot of katas, how it helps kids with ADHD symptoms.

01:41:33.000 Focus.

01:41:33.000 Yeah, you have to remember it.

01:41:34.000 I think a thing that's not good in the martial arts community is how we label certain martial arts.

01:41:42.000 Right.

01:41:44.000 I don't dismiss anything because every art, every system has a benefit.

01:41:51.000 Again, I've seen kids with severe ADHD symptoms take up Taekwondo and it's amazing how their focus improves.

01:42:00.000 Even martial arts that people think are useless, they have some application if you understand the other martial arts.

01:42:07.000 There's a lot of people that talk shit about Wing Chun and they think that it's not an effective martial art.

01:42:13.000 But there are moments where Wing Chun would be effective.

01:42:17.000 You just need to learn takedown defense and leg kicks.

01:42:21.000 You need to learn all the other aspects of martial arts.

01:42:24.000 But there are times where linear punching like that and the ability to block Wing Chun and then block and counter...

01:42:31.000 There's a guy, a top-flight guy in the UFC, Tony Ferguson, he uses Wing Chun a lot.

01:42:36.000 I saw that, yeah.

01:42:37.000 All the time.

01:42:38.000 Like, you see some of his fights, he'll use techniques that you will drill on a Wing Chun dummy, and he'll use those in fights.

01:42:45.000 Trapping hands and delivering punches at the same time.

01:42:48.000 It works.

01:42:48.000 It does work.

01:42:48.000 It can work.

01:42:49.000 And even, what is the saying, the shortest distance between two destinations is a straight line?

01:42:54.000 Yes.

01:42:54.000 And that's one thing, one of my instructors in Kempo, the Shaolin Kempo I had studied, We would do round blows, but he was saying that straight blow, that thrusting punch straight ahead is so fast and it gets to you.

01:43:08.000 And it's devastating because the directional flow of that blow, everything is aligned if you can get it to happen.

01:43:15.000 Sure, sure.

01:43:16.000 Straight jab.

01:43:17.000 Straight jab is one of the most effective things.

01:43:20.000 But the issue is a lot of the schools or the teachers, it's the pride that don't want to let go of the tradition to bring other styles in.

01:43:28.000 I think that's unfair to the child as well or the man who's learning it because you want to know takedowns and submissions and throws.

01:43:37.000 You just want to be...

01:43:39.000 Well-rounded as a fighter.

01:43:40.000 It's just unfortunate that they want to pretend that the art is effective on its own against a skilled fighter who knows other disciplines.

01:43:48.000 Because it's not.

01:43:49.000 But if you're a guy like Tony Ferguson that knows all the other things, like he's a great wrestler, he's great submissions, he's a great striker...

01:43:56.000 Then you can apply those techniques.

01:43:59.000 It's the same thing with Taekwondo.

01:44:00.000 Taekwondo, in and of itself, is not a good martial art for mixed martial arts.

01:44:06.000 But it's good if you know the other things.

01:44:08.000 If you know takedown defense and jiu-jitsu and you know leg kicks, then Taekwondo can be very effective.

01:44:15.000 Definitely.

01:44:16.000 Anthony Pettis, who's a great fighter, is a Taekwondo practitioner.

01:44:18.000 Or even, you see them guys take your head off with the kicks.

01:44:21.000 And for you to be able to do that like this, But if you don't, again, I've seen it, great fighters, if you don't understand how to deal with someone coming in, all of that is nullified.

01:44:32.000 I've seen it in clubs everywhere.

01:44:34.000 It's like, man, it's amazing.

01:44:36.000 You can be a great striker.

01:44:37.000 And I've seen some guys put people down who just have their hands like a boxer.

01:44:42.000 Yeah.

01:44:42.000 But when you deal with someone who knows jiu-jitsu and can come in, it's a problem if you don't know what to do.

01:44:48.000 Yeah, once you get grabbed, if you don't know how to defend, if you don't know how to grapple, you're really helpless.

01:44:54.000 You're done.

01:44:54.000 You're helpless.

01:44:55.000 And I remember the first classes I took, you know, I thought I was a good martial artist.

01:45:00.000 I had done some kickboxing, you know, I fought a lot of Taekwondo tournaments, and I was like, I know how to fight.

01:45:06.000 And I remember just getting mauled.

01:45:08.000 And by people my size.

01:45:10.000 They weren't bigger than me.

01:45:10.000 I couldn't, like Fabio, he teaches at 313 Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Detroit.

01:45:17.000 I think 5-3 maybe?

01:45:20.000 Don't be mad at me, Fabio.

01:45:21.000 I don't know, but the fact that he controlled me when I first came to their school.

01:45:28.000 Yeah, it's humbling.

01:45:29.000 Yeah, and so, of course, you say in your head, well, I'm not punching.

01:45:32.000 Right.

01:45:33.000 And so, of course, that brings a different dynamic, you know, which I like about, you know, Tyrone Gooden is that you put the gloves on, you're grappling, and you can get hit, too, as well.

01:45:42.000 Mm-hmm.

01:45:44.000 If you're grapple only and you don't know how to take a punch, you may be shaken in a real situation.

01:45:50.000 You also might not know where you're vulnerable in grappling scenarios where someone could punch you.

01:45:54.000 And so you have a false sense of security.

01:45:56.000 That's very good.

01:45:57.000 You know, I mean, the body shots.

01:45:59.000 And then, you know, in Detroit, you deal with weapons, you know.

01:46:02.000 And so I tell my recruits, act like the mat is 400 degrees high.

01:46:06.000 We learn how to fight on the ground, not to stay on it, but how to get up.

01:46:11.000 Because a friend may come with a champagne bottle if you're at a party.

01:46:15.000 Another guy may have a gun because I haven't seen a fight in over a decade in my city.

01:46:23.000 Everyone pulls guns.

01:46:25.000 And so if you think about the best self-defense being a handgun and you go grab someone, so the no-no is you put two hands on someone who has two hands free.

01:46:35.000 Right.

01:46:35.000 So I'm always cautious of that if I ever have to engage like that.

01:46:39.000 I have to remember, like, wait a minute, both of my hands are on him.

01:46:43.000 Right.

01:46:44.000 And so he has his hands free.

01:46:47.000 Majority of people, I go to the gun range, it's amazing how many people carry guns now, in my city especially.

01:46:53.000 So that's why it's imperative that I train boys how to fight before the fight, before the fist is formed, before the bullets are fired.

01:47:01.000 Because if not, you never know where that can take you.

01:47:04.000 Say you choke someone out one day.

01:47:06.000 He's coming back.

01:47:08.000 Exactly.

01:47:08.000 And that's the thing that I keep telling people.

01:47:10.000 People that think that you can just get in fights.

01:47:12.000 Like, listen, man, unless you kill that guy, he's going to remember.

01:47:15.000 And if you do kill him, his friends are going to remember.

01:47:20.000 So it's a lose-lose.

01:47:21.000 If you can avoid fighting, avoid it every single time.

01:47:25.000 When I did security, the majority of the time it was psychology.

01:47:29.000 A guy was getting hostile and I knew I couldn't embarrass him, man.

01:47:35.000 Right, right.

01:47:35.000 So I go over and say, hey my man, always keep my hands up.

01:47:38.000 If you see any of my recruits, their hands are like this.

01:47:42.000 Because psychologically, it's telling your brain, I'm not in danger.

01:47:45.000 So once you clench that fist, it's sending signals that you have to defend yourself.

01:47:49.000 Also, it's nice to have your hands here in case some shit goes down.

01:47:52.000 You can at least get up to block.

01:47:55.000 Yeah, so it's better for me to have a hand open just in case you rush me.

01:47:59.000 I can grapple.

01:48:00.000 Yes.

01:48:00.000 Or I can close my fist to strike.

01:48:01.000 Pretty quick.

01:48:02.000 Yeah.

01:48:02.000 But also, we have to look out for cameras.

01:48:05.000 Right.

01:48:05.000 So if you had your fist up and my hands were like this, and the camera saw that in court, it looks like I'm not the aggressor.

01:48:13.000 Isn't that a fucked up thing you have to think about?

01:48:15.000 Yeah, but it's true.

01:48:17.000 It's true, yeah.

01:48:18.000 And so, you know, I tell the guy, I say, hey, look, man, I don't want to be embarrassed.

01:48:23.000 And I don't want to do anything to you to make you look embarrassed, but I got to keep my job.

01:48:27.000 I said, let's just walk out here.

01:48:29.000 You can stay mad, yelling, you know, save your face.

01:48:31.000 I said, but you do have to exit this area right now.

01:48:35.000 Always.

01:48:36.000 Because I approach them with respect.

01:48:38.000 Right, right.

01:48:39.000 We walk out.

01:48:40.000 Yeah, it's amazing how the wrong person can force a situation to escalate, but the right person can smooth things out and calm things down.

01:48:50.000 Man, I was at a school in Detroit.

01:48:51.000 They brought me in, a charter school.

01:48:53.000 Beautiful.

01:48:55.000 And the first, I think, three months or something was 17 fights.

01:49:00.000 And they said, could you come in?

01:49:01.000 I said, well, I don't want to just do security.

01:49:03.000 They said, well, look, you can come do mentoring as well.

01:49:05.000 So this is when our nonprofit was just getting off the ground.

01:49:08.000 I created a term called relational security.

01:49:12.000 Man, within a matter of weeks, I had students there close to me, like I'm their dad.

01:49:17.000 They would actually call my phone or text me and say, Mr. Wilson, a fight is about to happen over here.

01:49:24.000 And because they trusted me, I would come and these two kids are ready to fight.

01:49:29.000 And I say, neither of you really want to fight.

01:49:32.000 You're doing this to save your face, your ego.

01:49:35.000 And we keep talking.

01:49:36.000 Eventually, the hands drop and fall to their sides because I gave them a way out.

01:49:43.000 The majority of times when we're in a situation, if we're out to eat and we're two different mentalities, just wild, and we're with our girls, we're not going to back down from each other.

01:49:52.000 But when you allow a person to escape or to have an option to get out of a situation besides just striking or using a weapon in high school has helped me really become great at what I do in helping kids de-escalate a situation without resorting to violence,

01:50:08.000 man.

01:50:09.000 That's so important.

01:50:10.000 And also that they respect you.

01:50:11.000 So they don't want to disappoint you.

01:50:13.000 They don't want you being upset at them.

01:50:15.000 And if you can communicate with them in that sort of calm voice that you have, that's an amazing way to de-escalate things, too.

01:50:22.000 And also, like yelling.

01:50:23.000 You know, people say, well, how do you get the boys to move and respond so much without you having to yell all the time?

01:50:29.000 I say, well, yelling is a great tool because you'll see coaches use it.

01:50:32.000 I said, but it only works if they know you love them.

01:50:35.000 It only works if they know you got their best interest at heart.

01:50:39.000 It was a gym packed of kids.

01:50:40.000 The teachers couldn't get the boys to leave because lunch was over.

01:50:43.000 I simply walk in and say, hey, it's time to get back to class.

01:50:47.000 They drop the balls, just so Mr. Wilson walk out.

01:50:51.000 Because I care about him.

01:50:52.000 I won't humiliate him.

01:50:53.000 If it was a six-year-old boy, I'm not going to yell at him.

01:50:56.000 I'm not going to demean him.

01:50:57.000 I wouldn't do that to you or any man.

01:50:59.000 So why would I treat a young boy?

01:51:01.000 Yeah, but we talk to our kids in such a demeaning way.

01:51:04.000 It's like, no, I talk to a young kid like he's a grown man.

01:51:09.000 Right.

01:51:09.000 And it's just the respect level.

01:51:11.000 He starts believing in himself and he improves.

01:51:15.000 That is an amazing thing to talk to a young child like they're a grown man, to treat him with respect instead of like, you have to listen to me.

01:51:23.000 Or shut up, you know.

01:51:25.000 Shut up, little man.

01:51:26.000 I was in a school.

01:51:27.000 A teacher slapped the kid's Cheetos out of his hand in front of everyone.

01:51:32.000 And he was losing.

01:51:33.000 She started yelling at him.

01:51:34.000 The principal comes out the office, looks at me, and I'm not working there.

01:51:39.000 I had a meeting with the principal.

01:51:40.000 He said, can you please handle this?

01:51:42.000 Because he was meeting with someone in the higher-ups.

01:51:45.000 I said, come on, young man.

01:51:46.000 Let's go.

01:51:46.000 Let's talk.

01:51:47.000 I said, she shouldn't have talked to you that way.

01:51:49.000 That was wrong.

01:51:50.000 I said, I know that embarrassed you.

01:51:52.000 And so he was hitting the walls in the bathroom.

01:51:55.000 I say, I understand.

01:51:56.000 Let it go.

01:51:56.000 I say, but you need to reset.

01:51:58.000 I say, understand the way you feel is legitimate.

01:52:02.000 I gave him permission.

01:52:05.000 When you understand, when you allow a young man the freedom, not only to express himself, but don't dismiss how he's feeling, Not to say, you know, hey, you should have never responded that way.

01:52:16.000 Like this woman literally just embarrassed him and slapped his food out on the floor because he didn't respond in a timely manner.

01:52:23.000 That was unacceptable for an adult to treat him that way.

01:52:27.000 And because of that, he calmed down and we were able to reset and get him back in class.

01:52:31.000 But unfortunately, because many of us as adults, we don't know how to process our emotions either.

01:52:37.000 And then you may have a class of so many kids and our teachers are overwhelmed, which is why I feel sorry for many of them.

01:52:45.000 In many cases, you have good teachers who care, but you have one person trying to teach 38. That's a lot.

01:52:51.000 And so then they bring their own stuff to the classroom and they're hurting.

01:52:55.000 And then if you don't know how to release it, What's going to happen?

01:52:58.000 Yeah.

01:52:59.000 And that's why our kids, you know, both sides are really suffering.

01:53:02.000 But I've learned when you talk respectfully to a young man, I don't care if he's 5 or 15, they respond accordingly.

01:53:12.000 And so that's what really helped me a lot in my journey working with boys, especially men.

01:53:17.000 People are not individuals that are not, they're uninfluenced by others.

01:53:22.000 You know, people are influenced by the people they're talking to.

01:53:25.000 If you're talking to someone who respects you, it immediately lowers all of your tension and relaxes you and you go, okay, this guy respects me.

01:53:35.000 He's treating me in a nice way.

01:53:38.000 I'm going to calm down and I'm going to try to treat him in a nice way too.

01:53:41.000 And you can de-escalate so many situations, whereas someone who comes in and just barks and demands respect without any thought whatsoever about how the other person's receiving them.

01:53:52.000 And it's a common thing.

01:53:54.000 I've done it.

01:53:55.000 We've all done it.

01:53:56.000 We've all been in a situation where you yell at someone, and you're not even thinking, how is this person receiving what I'm saying?

01:54:02.000 You're thinking, I don't like what this guy's doing, so I'm just going to yell.

01:54:06.000 I'm going to get angry.

01:54:07.000 But you're not thinking at all about how is this person receiving my words.

01:54:12.000 And it's such a common thing with us.

01:54:14.000 We want a person to either stop behaving a certain way or we want them to behave a certain way.

01:54:20.000 And we think we're going to do that by escalating, by being angry and loud and Most times that's the wrong way to handle things.

01:54:28.000 It is.

01:54:28.000 And even with my own son, you know, I had to learn that the hard way.

01:54:32.000 Like, maybe two years ago, my wife, I love Amish grilled Amish wings.

01:54:37.000 But they're small, but they're healthy.

01:54:39.000 What are Amish wings?

01:54:40.000 Amish, made by the Amish, the Amish chicken wings.

01:54:43.000 Oh, what do they do?

01:54:45.000 What's the difference?

01:54:46.000 They're supposed to be organic and not shopped with a lot of steroids and things like that.

01:54:50.000 I thought they're cooking them in a certain way.

01:54:52.000 No, it's just they're manufactured in a way where it doesn't have a lot of steroids and things like that.

01:54:58.000 They're small, though.

01:54:59.000 They're very small.

01:55:00.000 My son, I come home.

01:55:02.000 I couldn't eat dinner with him and my wife, and so she had my plate fixed to the side.

01:55:06.000 My son's washing dishes, and I noticed one of my wings were gone, and he was eating it.

01:55:13.000 And I said, dude, and so I had to check him.

01:55:16.000 You know, you can't, because that's disrespectful.

01:55:18.000 You don't pay a bill in this house or anything, and you just ate dinner, but you want to take one of my wings.

01:55:24.000 Instead of me yelling, I messed up with my daughter, man.

01:55:27.000 You know, I would yell at everything, and it scarred her greatly.

01:55:33.000 I learned not to do that with my son.

01:55:35.000 So while I was checking him or putting him in his place or explaining to him why that action was wrong, I was forgiving him at the same time.

01:55:44.000 So as soon as I finished speaking, he apologized.

01:55:47.000 We reset and started watching the game and laughing again.

01:55:51.000 And that's the whole thing of staying calm and not getting led by your emotions.

01:55:55.000 It hurt me and it angered me that you took one of my wings and you just ate and I'm hungry.

01:56:01.000 However, I need to teach you how that is wrong in a way where you can receive it and grow from it.

01:56:07.000 With my daughter, it was yelling, don't do this, don't do that.

01:56:11.000 Man, I had to do so much work just to get us back where we're close now.

01:56:15.000 Because as a father, especially I was young then, I was hyper-masking.

01:56:20.000 And then I was wounded and always angry and holding on to so much.

01:56:25.000 Every little thing, man.

01:56:26.000 I regret it so much.

01:56:28.000 Like, if her room was dirty, why isn't this clean?

01:56:31.000 Make sure this is done this way.

01:56:32.000 This is that.

01:56:33.000 Instead of looking, why is her room always junky?

01:56:36.000 Why are things this orderly?

01:56:38.000 That's a sign to me that something else is going on because typically we keep our house in order, but maybe there's some pressure she's experiencing that I'm not engaging with her own.

01:56:49.000 And I blew that, man.

01:56:51.000 And so, you know, with my son, I'm very gracious to him, you know.

01:56:57.000 Of course, I have to get at him sometime, you know.

01:57:00.000 Sometimes I raise my voice sometimes, like, hey man, you know, that's not right.

01:57:04.000 You shouldn't have done that.

01:57:05.000 Or if I catch him say something to his mom that I don't feel is, like, she's the queen in the house.

01:57:10.000 So it's like, look, none of that.

01:57:13.000 You're going to, your tone, everything needs to be correct with her, you know?

01:57:18.000 But he knows I love him.

01:57:21.000 I'm able to share with him, man, it hurts me, son.

01:57:25.000 I wanted to take you go-kart racing, but because you didn't perform in school, now it's ruining my day as well.

01:57:32.000 Instead of saying, man, I was stupid.

01:57:34.000 I pay all this money for the school you're supposed to do.

01:57:37.000 You handle your business.

01:57:37.000 No more games.

01:57:38.000 No more this.

01:57:39.000 No more that.

01:57:41.000 Now he's internalizing everything, and then at his age, the brain doesn't fully mature until you're 26. So he's a great interpreter, but he doesn't know how to process.

01:57:50.000 So my actions are sending him so many signals that aren't even true, and then it affects him in a negative way.

01:57:57.000 So I say, look here, son, it hurts me.

01:58:00.000 Because it does.

01:58:01.000 That's the honest emotion behind what I'm feeling.

01:58:03.000 And it's actually a good tool for the men who are listening or watching.

01:58:08.000 It's called the feeling wheel, and you can Google it.

01:58:11.000 And it's a three-tier wheel where it has in the center the core emotions.

01:58:15.000 Then it goes off into the next tier where it shows the other emotions that are rooted underneath those.

01:58:21.000 And then the outer tier is probably what you're really feeling but you fear really expressing.

01:58:27.000 Because I tell my son it hurts him, it opens him up to another emotion of feeling bad and sorrowful for not doing his best of doing what he should.

01:58:36.000 And he recovers so much faster than me just being irate or disciplined dad only.

01:58:42.000 And he doesn't feel the love or the disappointment.

01:58:47.000 The reason as parents we're upset and angry is because it hurts us.

01:58:50.000 We want the best for our children, but we respond the way our parents, you know, in most cases how they taught us.

01:58:59.000 And even with my wife, it's funny, we're a joke, like my daughter, I don't believe in my kids struggling.

01:59:06.000 Life in and of itself will challenge anyone.

01:59:10.000 The last thing I need to do is add another challenge to it.

01:59:13.000 And so I'm not going to enable you, but I'm going to support you.

01:59:17.000 My wife is funny.

01:59:18.000 She'd be like, look, she'll make it and do this and that.

01:59:21.000 I'm like, no.

01:59:22.000 When I talk to her mother and dad, it's interesting.

01:59:26.000 My wife and them didn't have a lot growing up, but that wasn't her parents' desire.

01:59:31.000 If they were where they were now, all of them would have everything that they needed to get the support and love.

01:59:37.000 But they had the love, but just the additional things that they could have.

01:59:40.000 So as parents, we're taught that this tough love works.

01:59:45.000 I've seen it damage more than it helps.

01:59:47.000 And so, of course, I want my daughter or son to be responsible with what I give them, but I'm not going to have my daughter or son struggling somewhere, and I have the means to make it a little easier.

02:00:01.000 And I learned that and I felt real convicted one time.

02:00:04.000 I'm like, man, if she did or he did everything the way I laid out, I would give them the world.

02:00:11.000 And I asked, I did a survey with other fathers.

02:00:13.000 They said, yeah, that's true.

02:00:14.000 If he followed what I say, I give him everything that he needs.

02:00:18.000 I said, okay, cool.

02:00:19.000 I said, well, what if what they were created to do is not in line with what you're telling them?

02:00:24.000 Would you still give them everything they need?

02:00:27.000 And they just got quiet and was really like, man, you're right, I didn't think about that.

02:00:32.000 And so as parents, you know, our children are like our hearts walking outside of our bodies.

02:00:38.000 And we're guarded, we want to protect them.

02:00:40.000 But at the same time, the millennials that I talk to, when they feel abandoned, when a parent says, go ahead, you do it on your own, you got it, you know, and just dismiss them.

02:00:52.000 It's nothing like having a parent there to support you.

02:00:55.000 Now, if you can't, you know, it's tight.

02:00:57.000 What you can't do, you can't.

02:00:59.000 But when you can and you don't, it sends a very hurtful signal or it's telling the child that they're really not worth that sacrifice.

02:01:10.000 And it's hurtful.

02:01:11.000 I get messages from kids on TikTok and they say the same thing.

02:01:14.000 Mr. Wilson, I wish you were my dad.

02:01:16.000 Because I really would like for them just to understand and listen to me more, you know?

02:01:21.000 And so that is a major turning point in my parenting was when I stopped yelling and processed the real reason why I felt the way I did instead of just saying, you pissed me off, you know?

02:01:35.000 Same thing with me.

02:01:36.000 And if me and you get close and good friends and we have some conflict, I won't say, Joe, man, you pissed me off.

02:01:44.000 You shouldn't have did that.

02:01:44.000 I say, man, that hurt me, Joe, because you know I love you, bro.

02:01:48.000 And now it's a different conversation.

02:01:52.000 Yes, it made me upset, but the root cause of that was you hurt me because as your brother, I give you anything that I can give you.

02:02:00.000 And so when we learn how to articulate our emotions that way without fear of being admonished or condemned or embarrassed, man, you'll see this whole society change.

02:02:10.000 For real.

02:02:11.000 Yeah, that's a very, very important point.

02:02:13.000 I think it's awesome, too, that you're describing your journey as a parent and being honest about your mistakes that we've all made and that learning from these mistakes is a part of the process.

02:02:25.000 It's a part of the thing.

02:02:26.000 A lot of people can gain a lot of understanding of their own process through listening to you talk about your mistakes.

02:02:34.000 Yeah, our children, they come with manuals, man.

02:02:36.000 They didn't come with manuals, so we're going to mess up.

02:02:40.000 And so the key thing as a parent...

02:02:42.000 Don't condemn yourself.

02:02:43.000 Right.

02:02:44.000 Just continue to do the best that you can, man.

02:02:47.000 And for me, you know, I don't hit the bullseye a lot of times, but I'm right in that whatever the next color is.

02:02:54.000 You know, I'm always trying to be right there with my son.

02:02:57.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:02:59.000 But that's the goal.

02:03:00.000 And then if you don't get healed, you're going to end up hurting your child more.

02:03:05.000 Yes.

02:03:06.000 Okay, and so now they're going to need therapy to get over what you did to them.

02:03:10.000 Right.

02:03:10.000 And so as parents, all of us have experienced some trauma at some point in time.

02:03:14.000 Could you imagine if all of us just took a moment just to get some therapy, just to talk to someone, to release something that causes us to parent in a way that we don't desire?

02:03:25.000 You know, especially a lot of single mothers...

02:03:28.000 Man, my mom was the best to do it as a single mother in my eyes, and I couldn't imagine...

02:03:35.000 We're good to go.

02:04:05.000 That woman should be honored to the fullest.

02:04:09.000 And I always tell them, I say, if she died, who would take care of you?

02:04:14.000 They'd get quiet.

02:04:16.000 I don't care what ethnicity.

02:04:17.000 It's just because they never really have opportunity to really someone talk to them in that way.

02:04:22.000 Like, hey, I want you to really reflect on how important this woman is in your life.

02:04:26.000 Then you have the fathers, on the other hand, who want to be there.

02:04:31.000 But because of the conflict with the mother or other things going on inside of them, the majority of fathers I know are great dads.

02:04:39.000 But because of the hurt and pain or don't even believe that they're good men, they're hurting because of all the years of being condemned and told they're a failure, they don't even feel that they can really be great for their own sons.

02:04:52.000 And so in our academy, I've never really seen a father that doesn't care about his children.

02:05:01.000 When I see a man not active in his child's life, as soon as I talk to him, I see trauma.

02:05:09.000 As soon as I talk to him, I see the cause and effect of that relationship and why it's there.

02:05:15.000 So as men, you know, it's time out for just brushing that aside.

02:05:20.000 Like, you should just do better.

02:05:22.000 Trust me, he wants to do better.

02:05:25.000 But can he have someone that he can confide in, that actually care about him doing better?

02:05:30.000 You know, it's cool to command someone.

02:05:31.000 That's why I don't, you'll never hear me say, I challenge you men.

02:05:35.000 If I speak, I never, because the last thing we need as men is another challenge.

02:05:39.000 I try to encourage my brothers to become stronger and better and to break free from what I call misconstrued masculinity or a misunderstanding of what masculinity truly is.

02:05:49.000 We are more than masculine.

02:05:52.000 When Kobe Bryant died, we started seeing the hashtag Girl Dad go viral all over the world, and fathers started showing pictures of themselves being nurturers with their daughters.

02:06:04.000 We're all nurturers as men, and our children need us to be nurturers, and they also need us to be, what, protectors.

02:06:11.000 But as men, we have to have and get past this just suppressing everything, man, because it's not only destroying us, it's It's destroying what we love the most, and that's our families.

02:06:23.000 I think, man, we also need positive examples to mirror.

02:06:27.000 And I think there's many men that don't know anyone in their personal life that's a positive person that they can mirror.

02:06:34.000 They can look to that person to aspire to be like them.

02:06:37.000 So that's where a person like you is super valuable.

02:06:40.000 You come into play and they see what is possible.

02:06:45.000 Like, I don't know anyone like him, but here he is.

02:06:48.000 And he exists and he's doing his best and he's being open and transparent about both the good aspects of his behavior and the things that he wish he had done differently in the past.

02:07:00.000 That's everything.

02:07:01.000 And I'm thankful to play that part, play my part in encouraging men and especially boys.

02:07:09.000 And, you know, it's, you know, again, we believe what we see.

02:07:17.000 And that's why social media, I look at it as, it's actually sometimes like my journal, and it's a cyber journal where I allow myself to just process it publicly because I know someone else is dealing with it.

02:07:32.000 And it gives me hope, like, okay, cool.

02:07:34.000 I see him with a beautiful wife.

02:07:35.000 He has a great family and kids.

02:07:37.000 He's successful.

02:07:38.000 But I also see the struggle.

02:07:41.000 Because when you only look at people's highlight reels, because that's all you see on social media, you don't see the struggles, the having to do it over and over again, the times when I wasn't loving to my wife.

02:07:53.000 You know, we were about to get separated in 2015, man.

02:07:57.000 You know, I yelled at her so demonstrably in the kitchen, I saw my wife literally like shrink before my eyes, Joe.

02:08:05.000 And here it is, I'm her protector.

02:08:11.000 And she's scared of me.

02:08:13.000 Well, not scared, but the way I talked to her just tore this beautiful woman down.

02:08:22.000 When I saw her, I said, this can't happen again.

02:08:28.000 God was like, you don't know how to deal with your emotions, man.

02:08:33.000 You got to learn how to deal with yourself.

02:08:36.000 Something so precious that I've blessed you with, just because you're feeling a certain way doesn't mean that you speak to her that way.

02:08:46.000 I got help from a psychotherapist, you know, Dr. Tim Breaux.

02:08:51.000 We're good to go.

02:09:09.000 And as a father, a man, they hear that.

02:09:10.000 I try to be a good husband, man.

02:09:13.000 And they hear that the woman that you love feels that she's just...

02:09:17.000 So he had her get into a cardboard box on the couch and close her in.

02:09:22.000 Wow.

02:09:23.000 And before she did that, he laid out a map on the floor so that she could understand why I was reacting the way I was.

02:09:31.000 At the time, I was under tremendous stress with my mother passing before my eyes.

02:09:37.000 And he had a skull, was on this little map, and it was some other things.

02:09:42.000 So each piece I got to, he said, tell me what this means.

02:09:45.000 What does this represent?

02:09:46.000 When I got to the skull, he says, what does this represent?

02:09:49.000 I said, my mom is dying.

02:09:52.000 And I broke down crying.

02:09:54.000 So my wife didn't see that, because as a man, I was still, she would only see the protection.

02:09:59.000 Right.

02:10:00.000 She didn't know really what I was really dealing with.

02:10:03.000 Yeah, she didn't know because I hid it from her.

02:10:07.000 And so my anger from that transferred to her as you're doing something wrong again.

02:10:15.000 That conversation, Joe, she literally was just telling me, I said, I desire, I need to spend more time with little J. This is what she said that triggered that response.

02:10:25.000 She says, I wish you would desire to spend time with me too.

02:10:29.000 Like that.

02:10:30.000 She wanted me to have that type of desire.

02:10:34.000 Right.

02:10:35.000 I heard something I'm not doing right again.

02:10:38.000 Right.

02:10:39.000 I heard, you know, put me, spend more time with me than your son, but I didn't hear her heart.

02:10:45.000 She was, this is a woman saying, man, I long for you to long for me that way as well.

02:10:50.000 Nothing was wrong with that.

02:10:52.000 Right.

02:10:52.000 But I exploded because I was hurt.

02:10:56.000 If I was just says, man, Cole, I'm hearing it as I'm doing something wrong.

02:11:01.000 Are you saying that me spending more time with little J isn't good?

02:11:05.000 That whole conversation would have been different.

02:11:07.000 That whole situation wouldn't have happened.

02:11:10.000 Anyway, make a long story short, after we went through that in his office, so she's in a box, closed up, man.

02:11:17.000 On the couch.

02:11:18.000 Yeah.

02:11:18.000 He says, go rescue your wife.

02:11:23.000 Something happened in me, in my mind at that moment when I went to get her out that box and I hugged her.

02:11:29.000 The session, man, was seven hours.

02:11:32.000 Whoa.

02:11:33.000 And it didn't feel like it, but that's how thorough this guy is, him and his wife.

02:11:38.000 But when I hugged her, I said, never again will this happen.

02:11:45.000 And it doesn't happen now.

02:11:47.000 We reconcile immediately.

02:11:49.000 Like the arguments and stuff, if we have a disagreement, I apologize immediately.

02:11:54.000 I say to myself, I can't live without you.

02:11:57.000 And then when we figured out this is what helped us in a major way, I knew and she knew that our intent for each other wasn't to hurt each other.

02:12:06.000 When you know that, when things happen that are offensive, you say, okay, cool, maybe...

02:12:12.000 You talk it through.

02:12:12.000 Yeah.

02:12:13.000 So now those long arguments, the stints of just not talking for two days, no longer happen because we reflect, release, and reset in our home.

02:12:25.000 And because of that, we finally can experience peace, man.

02:12:29.000 You know, real peace where it's not based on an environment, but what's inside of us, man.

02:12:35.000 And so that's what keeps me going to help my brothers.

02:12:39.000 And it's just...

02:12:41.000 I want men to be free, man, like we're emotionally incarcerated.

02:12:45.000 And I want us to break free from that so that we can really live full lives, man, and stop living from the fear, you know, how you're going to be perceived.

02:12:56.000 Live from the good in your heart, man, and watch the world around you change.

02:13:02.000 That's worth the compassion fatigue.

02:13:04.000 That's worth the tears.

02:13:06.000 That's worth me saying, I'm tired, I'm ready to go with my father.

02:13:10.000 It's worth all of that because it's my first time meeting you.

02:13:15.000 But I care about you, who you are outside of Joe Rogan.

02:13:20.000 It doesn't, this doesn't mean, I mean, I walked in, I'm like, wow, this is cool.

02:13:25.000 But as I talk with you, I care about Joe.

02:13:29.000 All of this stuff here could go tomorrow.

02:13:32.000 Don't mean anything to me.

02:13:34.000 I meet people who are millionaires, even a billionaire.

02:13:38.000 Once you take away the money and everything and you talk, It's a common ground.

02:13:42.000 They're just people.

02:13:43.000 And we're hurting.

02:13:45.000 And people just want to be accepted for who they really are.

02:13:48.000 Now that doesn't mean that we accept the bad.

02:13:51.000 Like, I can't just say, I just want to be who I am.

02:13:53.000 And some of that is some bad things, things that aren't good.

02:13:57.000 I need to change that.

02:13:58.000 But the good in me...

02:14:00.000 I want to let that shine stronger.

02:14:03.000 I don't want that to be hindered anymore.

02:14:06.000 That's a beautiful message.

02:14:07.000 Thanks, brother.

02:14:07.000 It really is.

02:14:08.000 It's a beautiful message and it's so honest.

02:14:10.000 And that's going to help a lot of people.

02:14:13.000 It really does.

02:14:13.000 Thank you, brother.

02:14:14.000 The way you express it, too.

02:14:17.000 Again, like what I said about all your videos, they resonate.

02:14:20.000 They really do.

02:14:21.000 What was the process like in writing this book?

02:14:25.000 And what did you want to accomplish with it?

02:14:28.000 Well, Battle Cry, so my first book, Cry Like a Man, was to teach me how to break free from emotional incarceration and attain the freedom they desire.

02:14:37.000 Battle Cry is to teach you how to fight to keep it.

02:14:40.000 And so everyone kept saying, man, I love your memoir.

02:14:43.000 It's great, but how do I do this in real life?

02:14:47.000 That's what Battle Cry is.

02:14:48.000 It's teaching you, I'm giving you everything, all the weapons that I've used in my own inner war daily to help me win this war within me.

02:14:56.000 And your process of writing this, did you think about it for a long time before, like Cry Like a Man, before you wrote that, before you wrote Battle Cry?

02:15:05.000 Is this something that you had in you, like you knew you had to write a book or a couple books now?

02:15:11.000 Well, yeah, so Cry Like a Man, I knew I had a story to be told.

02:15:15.000 And so that was a draining process because I had to revisit so much trauma in my life.

02:15:21.000 And that just, it drained me just emotionally and mentally.

02:15:25.000 Battle Cry I wrote during COVID. And I said, no other time in history will ever have this much time to really flush out of me all the tools that I can give to my brothers out here who are losing the wars within.

02:15:40.000 That's how that book came to be.

02:15:43.000 And then just the areas in life.

02:15:44.000 I did a survey online.

02:15:46.000 I asked men, list the things that you struggle with, like the emotions, lust, fear, anxiety, abandonment.

02:15:53.000 And so I took that list from all the men and I wrote around that as well.

02:15:59.000 And I didn't want to just write a self-help book.

02:16:02.000 A friend of mine who's a pastor, he says, look, you see this shelf here?

02:16:06.000 He had tons of books.

02:16:08.000 He says, all of those are men's self-help books.

02:16:10.000 He said, if it worked, he says, I will only need one.

02:16:13.000 Yeah.

02:16:14.000 He says, what's going to help you get this message out to the men in need is your story.

02:16:20.000 From your story, you be vulnerable and transparent and share with men how you had the test, how you failed, but how you triumphed.

02:16:30.000 And then make it very applicable and simple to where you can apply it.

02:16:34.000 And so that's what I do throughout the book, is help men in each stage how to navigate through what they're dealing with, their failures, their fears, Even our, you know, misogynistic behavior.

02:16:46.000 You know, I have a chapter called Sexual Self-Control.

02:16:49.000 When I was in eighth grade, man, when the bell would ring, me and my friends would go to the back of the classroom and just grope the girls.

02:16:57.000 You know, I was ashamed to even write about it, but again, I wanted to be transparent.

02:17:01.000 And the girls would get offended and angry, and they would yell, and we would say, don't say nothing to the teacher.

02:17:09.000 And so I wrote down how many women today are in that same situation where a guy offends them in that way and says, please don't say nothing.

02:17:18.000 And here it is now, our sisters, our mothers, our daughters are being assaulted and they can't even say anything.

02:17:26.000 And so as men, I don't believe that subject is talked about enough because we treat them as objects.

02:17:36.000 And that's what I used to do.

02:17:38.000 You know, I struggled with masturbation growing up.

02:17:41.000 And so I had this, I could have any girl at any given moment, any way that I want her.

02:17:47.000 Eventually I started treating women like that, like they were nothing but objects.

02:17:52.000 And then I would have the nerve to get upset when a man would treat my mother that way.

02:17:59.000 And I quickly saw like, wait a minute, this isn't right.

02:18:05.000 I went to prom with one girl, beautiful spirit, everything.

02:18:11.000 And my goal was to have sex with her, you know.

02:18:14.000 And I promised her father, you know, I wouldn't touch her.

02:18:17.000 And what's crazy, her dad, this is how crazy this is, man.

02:18:22.000 Before I was leaving Joe, his house, he says to me, tell your dad I say hello.

02:18:28.000 I said, oh, okay.

02:18:30.000 I'm like, why did you wait till now to tell me you knew my father?

02:18:33.000 I get back to the barbershop because my father was a barber.

02:18:37.000 He said, oh yeah, I know who you talking about.

02:18:39.000 He had the nerve to leave me at home alone with his wife while he went to play the lottery.

02:18:45.000 And basically he had sex with his wife.

02:18:47.000 And this was his friend.

02:18:48.000 And they joked about it in the barbershop.

02:18:51.000 My father was offended that his friend let him stay alone with his wife like he was a punk.

02:18:56.000 That's literally what he told me.

02:18:58.000 Like, I'm a punk.

02:18:59.000 Like, I won't F her.

02:19:01.000 And that's what he did.

02:19:03.000 When I heard that story, man, I was so conflicted.

02:19:05.000 Not only is it a violation of friendship, but it's adultery.

02:19:11.000 I said, I'm not going to treat this girl that way.

02:19:14.000 I didn't want a relationship with her.

02:19:16.000 I just wanted to have sex with her.

02:19:18.000 I left my condoms at home, picked her up, escorted her to the car, treated her like she deserved to be treated that day.

02:19:26.000 And my life changed from that point on.

02:19:29.000 And I started seeing women differently.

02:19:31.000 When I pursued music, man, I was in Atlanta.

02:19:34.000 A friend of mine had a gentleman's party.

02:19:36.000 These guys have money and the girls come over.

02:19:38.000 You do whatever you want.

02:19:40.000 I'm in the studio.

02:19:41.000 I didn't want to be around that because I was dating Nicole, my wife now.

02:19:45.000 My door knock, girl comes in, stripper, beautiful.

02:19:50.000 I said, I'm straight.

02:19:51.000 I don't want a dilap dance.

02:19:54.000 I don't want no sex.

02:19:55.000 She was like, I ain't in here for that.

02:19:57.000 And she just sat down.

02:19:59.000 She wanted to escape what was going on.

02:20:02.000 So I'm making beats.

02:20:03.000 I didn't give you permission to sit here on my bed to talk to me.

02:20:07.000 But she was heavy hearted.

02:20:09.000 And so I stopped doing what I was doing.

02:20:11.000 And I said, what's going on?

02:20:14.000 She got caught up in the dark arts trying to make money for a business venture.

02:20:19.000 And she couldn't get out.

02:20:21.000 Instead of me taking advantage of her, I just helped her create just some small steps to get out of it.

02:20:28.000 You know, she left the party right after we talked.

02:20:32.000 Because I treated her like a sister and not an object.

02:20:38.000 And as men, you know, that mindset comes from low self-esteem.

02:20:42.000 You know, I speak for myself.

02:20:45.000 You know, it was a power.

02:20:47.000 I had control over them, you know?

02:20:48.000 And when I really found love, when I found real love like I have in my wife, I realized all of that fornication was just feckless attempts at attaining the affirmation I really wanted the right way.

02:21:08.000 And once I got that, prior to that, but when I got with Nicole, It was just, it was special.

02:21:18.000 This woman affirms me so much, man, that it's nothing a woman could say to me that I haven't heard.

02:21:25.000 I see women that are attractive, you know, and they try to, you know, flirt.

02:21:30.000 It's nothing you can say to me.

02:21:32.000 My wife has already told me everything that I need to hear.

02:21:36.000 And as a man, that's what we desire.

02:21:38.000 But as long as we treat our sisters as objects, We would never really receive what we really long for, man.

02:21:47.000 And so that chapter took a lot out of me in Battle Cry, but it was one I had to wage and win because I wouldn't be faithful to my wife now.

02:21:57.000 And are you writing, when you write, are you writing longhand?

02:22:01.000 Are you writing on a computer?

02:22:02.000 Are you writing by yourself?

02:22:03.000 A computer by myself and a computer.

02:22:05.000 I had a great editor, which I needed to, again, I'm not trained, I'm not a professional writer, okay?

02:22:12.000 So I, grammatically, a proofreader, I needed that.

02:22:15.000 And a great editor I had, Alice Kreider, she was amazing.

02:22:20.000 But the process, my agent, Chris, she was like, These men, Jason, don't write a book, talk, and write what you're saying on paper or on the computer.

02:22:33.000 That allowed me to write in a way where a man has me personally as a coach with him.

02:22:41.000 So are you—but this is my question—do you record things out and then write it out, or are you just— I just type.

02:22:47.000 I pray.

02:22:48.000 I pray.

02:22:49.000 When I feel anxious, I say, you know, Father, you've got to speak through me because, again— I know I'm just a vessel, man.

02:22:55.000 I know I'm not.

02:22:56.000 I don't want nobody looking up to me like I'm all that.

02:22:58.000 Look, I struggle just like you.

02:23:00.000 I just win a lot more than I lose.

02:23:02.000 Period.

02:23:02.000 Okay?

02:23:03.000 I say, please speak through me what you want heard to these men.

02:23:07.000 Because I don't, you know, I know my story, but what exactly can help these men of different backgrounds across this world?

02:23:14.000 I let go of the anxiety, and it just was flowing, Joe, and just flowing, coming out of me.

02:23:19.000 Then I remember the story to tie in so that I can teach the principle to the lesson.

02:23:24.000 And that's how it all came out.

02:23:27.000 It's an incredibly time-consuming process.

02:23:30.000 Major, man, yeah.

02:23:31.000 Because I know you're so busy already.

02:23:33.000 I mean, you're saying you barely have time to get into a float tank.

02:23:36.000 Yeah.

02:23:37.000 How do you have the time to sit down and write these books?

02:23:40.000 Again, understanding, like you were talking about, my purpose.

02:23:44.000 Okay, why I'm here, what's important.

02:23:47.000 So you had a calling to write these books.

02:23:49.000 Oh, ain't no question.

02:23:50.000 So especially this second one, in the midst of COVID, I lost a lot of friends.

02:23:54.000 And so imagine not being able to go out.

02:23:57.000 We all experienced it.

02:23:59.000 And to...

02:24:01.000 Have to pour out more, seven, eight hours a day writing.

02:24:05.000 But I didn't have to go into the office.

02:24:06.000 The cave was shut down.

02:24:08.000 It was only virtual.

02:24:09.000 So I had this time.

02:24:11.000 But I knew I did not want to sit on my gift and waste this time.

02:24:17.000 And so I took advantage of it.

02:24:20.000 And I actually recorded an audio book, which I didn't want to do because Hearing yourself back speaking and then you write books to be read, not necessarily heard.

02:24:30.000 Right.

02:24:30.000 So you can have it in front of you and you're reading it and you start inserting words that aren't there because you're speaking it like you're speaking.

02:24:38.000 Right, right.

02:24:39.000 Man, it was a challenge.

02:24:41.000 But when I finished it and I sent some samples to my friends and posted some on social media, they were like...

02:24:48.000 I have to get this because I need to hear you.

02:24:51.000 Right.

02:24:52.000 Especially with your message.

02:24:54.000 Could you imagine being a pocket coach for a man who's just going through a tough time in his life where he can just push play and listen to me as if he has a session with me?

02:25:06.000 As if you were in the car with him while he's driving or you were at the gym in his headphones.

02:25:11.000 I couldn't pass up that opportunity.

02:25:13.000 That's gigantic.

02:25:14.000 And also, you would not want another author or an actor, a word actor, doing that for you.

02:25:20.000 One voiceover actor.

02:25:21.000 You gotta have it in your own words.

02:25:23.000 Cry Like a Man, we had a different guy.

02:25:25.000 And it was cool because it was my story.

02:25:27.000 But you're absolutely right.

02:25:28.000 When you're teaching someone...

02:25:30.000 Can you go back and redo it?

02:25:32.000 I guess I could if the publisher...

02:25:33.000 You think I should?

02:25:34.000 Yeah, fuck yeah.

02:25:36.000 I may consider it, but yeah, but Battle Cry was cool, man, because I didn't want to speak monotone.

02:25:42.000 I wanted to be like we are now, animated in everything.

02:25:46.000 And I'm thankful that I had a great engineer and he coached me through everything.

02:25:51.000 And I'm really hoping and praying that this book really inspires men to start taking that journey.

02:25:58.000 The hardest thing for us to do as men is to go with them.

02:26:01.000 Yeah.

02:26:02.000 Someone come up to you.

02:26:03.000 I've seen the leg kicks.

02:26:04.000 I know your experience in martial arts and jujitsu.

02:26:07.000 You can handle yourself very well.

02:26:09.000 Majority of us men can defend ourselves.

02:26:12.000 But when we have to go within and deal with the pain, go introspective, what's really warring inside of us, we don't want a part of that.

02:26:20.000 We go get something to drink or have sex with someone or whatever we have to do to avoid that.

02:26:26.000 I tell men to run to it like firemen.

02:26:29.000 They run towards the fire to put it out.

02:26:31.000 And unfortunately, you know, When we go towards that fight, we start feeling emotions again that aren't just masculine.

02:26:44.000 So if you had abuse by your mother or whatever happened to you that's traumatic and you want to cry, Let me get something to drink.

02:26:55.000 Dr. William Frey, he's a biochemist, he discovered that tears not only contain 98% water, but actually stress hormones that get excreted from our bodies when we cry.

02:27:07.000 So when we tell a man don't cry, look what we're doing to his body.

02:27:13.000 That's why typically after we cry we feel a little better.

02:27:17.000 And so he discovered that we release stress hormones through tears.

02:27:22.000 So, look how many men are suffering mentally.

02:27:25.000 That's interesting.

02:27:26.000 I never heard that before, but it makes sense.

02:27:29.000 And so, I'm like, dude, you gotta run towards it.

02:27:34.000 I wish I could be here for a lot of men.

02:27:38.000 I wish there was a way.

02:27:42.000 I could talk to men, you know, where they could say, you know, this week, you know, we could talk about this because so many men are alone, man.

02:27:50.000 And let me rephrase that.

02:27:54.000 So many men think they are alone, but they're not.

02:28:00.000 But when you have a platform or something where men can say, whoa, he just said what I'm dealing with.

02:28:06.000 Then they just said, and this survey says this, now it doesn't seem so daunting.

02:28:11.000 It seems like a war you can actually win.

02:28:14.000 So when men, when we can come together like that, in a room where race has no place and we're just brothers, and we can really talk about what's really going on, Man, I've seen it.

02:28:27.000 You know, men you think would never cry, break down.

02:28:31.000 Yeah.

02:28:32.000 Because they're carrying the world, man.

02:28:34.000 It's like you can't be strong all the time.

02:28:38.000 It's impossible.

02:28:39.000 It is impossible.

02:28:40.000 It's impossible and to have a guy like you express that gives them the license to access those emotions.

02:28:48.000 That's why I think your audiobook is going to be so important because so many people, that's how they take in books these days.

02:28:57.000 If you're driving, normal driving is like you're just sitting in your car either listening to music or you're not getting anything done.

02:29:05.000 But if you can listen to a book, a book on tape, you can actually learn something and you can actually enhance your perspective on things while you're driving your car.

02:29:14.000 You're right.

02:29:14.000 I didn't realize how popular audiobooks are.

02:29:17.000 I like reading.

02:29:19.000 But my friends were like, you're doing an audiobook?

02:29:22.000 And then I posted a little clip of it.

02:29:23.000 They were like, this is great.

02:29:26.000 And then I'm like, wait a minute.

02:29:28.000 I bought one recently and I listened to it while I was doing cardio.

02:29:31.000 I'm like, I see why this is the way to go.

02:29:34.000 Why people like this now.

02:29:35.000 It's great for cardio.

02:29:37.000 A real good, involving book.

02:29:39.000 It's great for cardio because you just zone out into the book and you just get your work done.

02:29:44.000 I saw you recently on the Stairmaster.

02:29:47.000 Yeah.

02:29:47.000 I can't stand that machine.

02:29:48.000 I hate that fucking machine.

02:29:49.000 That's why I clicked like.

02:29:51.000 I know exactly what you're talking about.

02:29:53.000 It's rough.

02:29:54.000 Yeah.

02:29:55.000 Oh yeah, man.

02:29:55.000 You're talking about...

02:29:56.000 That's a good way...

02:29:57.000 You said you deal with your inner be.

02:29:59.000 Yeah.

02:30:00.000 Yeah.

02:30:00.000 It's the same way.

02:30:01.000 I just use everything to wean my soul, man.

02:30:04.000 Yeah.

02:30:05.000 And just so that I can stay in control, man.

02:30:07.000 I can't be led by my emotions every time I do.

02:30:11.000 Right.

02:30:11.000 I mess up, man.

02:30:13.000 Yeah, being led by the emotions and also being led by the seeking of comfort, like the desire to seek comfort, the desire to relax.

02:30:24.000 I'm not fond of that.

02:30:27.000 I'm not fond of that at all.

02:30:28.000 I hate that feeling.

02:30:28.000 What do you mean?

02:30:29.000 Well, when you were lazy, when you don't want to work out, there's that feeling that everybody deals with.

02:30:36.000 I don't have to go to the gym today.

02:30:38.000 Maybe I'll just take a day off.

02:30:40.000 Maybe I'll just have a cup of coffee and watch the news.

02:30:42.000 I should watch the news.

02:30:43.000 Who knows what's going on in the world?

02:30:45.000 Maybe some crazy stuff that I need to be aware of.

02:30:47.000 But I know what's going on.

02:30:49.000 That's real.

02:30:50.000 The general in my brain is like, shut up, stupid.

02:30:53.000 I got what you're saying.

02:30:55.000 Let's go.

02:30:55.000 Let's get it in.

02:30:56.000 And then once you get it in, you feel so much better.

02:31:00.000 The feeling that I've, and I have blown off workouts before, when I probably should have worked out and then I do not appreciate myself afterwards.

02:31:08.000 But when I put the workout in and I get it over with and I'm done, then I can relax.

02:31:14.000 Man, that's so true.

02:31:15.000 My wife will tell you, I beat myself up when I don't stay consistent.

02:31:18.000 Yeah, we all do, I think.

02:31:20.000 Yeah, that's deep.

02:31:21.000 And it's just like, man, let me get at least 30 minutes, you know?

02:31:25.000 And that's a very good point.

02:31:27.000 You're absolutely right about that, man.

02:31:29.000 I feel accomplished when I leave the gym.

02:31:32.000 And then it gives you momentum.

02:31:34.000 That's the other thing.

02:31:35.000 The more you can do that, the more that's what you do.

02:31:38.000 Like, your brain knows your habits.

02:31:40.000 Right.

02:31:41.000 Your mind knows your habits.

02:31:42.000 This is what I do.

02:31:43.000 Like, I might complain, but I'm gonna go.

02:31:46.000 I'm gonna go, and I'm like, oh, I don't want to do this.

02:31:48.000 But I'm gonna...

02:31:49.000 And then after it's over, I'm like, yup, because this is what we do.

02:31:52.000 We get into work.

02:31:53.000 I remember I was...

02:31:54.000 Go ahead, what you were saying.

02:31:55.000 No, I was going to say you forced yourself.

02:31:57.000 Exactly.

02:31:57.000 I was with little Jay, you know, and we were curling.

02:32:00.000 So he's just starting to work out.

02:32:01.000 He's tall, but he's just 13. And it starts burning, and it's funny.

02:32:06.000 He was like, Dad, it's burning like something's wrong.

02:32:09.000 I said, that's what you need.

02:32:11.000 Keep going.

02:32:12.000 So he's so stoic, man.

02:32:13.000 I'm just like, what can I do to get this boy to sweat?

02:32:16.000 I want to hear that, you know?

02:32:19.000 He's just...

02:32:20.000 I said, this cat is a machine.

02:32:22.000 So I had to explain to him the purpose of that burn and the fibers breaking down.

02:32:27.000 It gets bigger and bigger.

02:32:28.000 And so I was curling one day and I said, you were talking about that inner voice saying, I want to do this today.

02:32:36.000 So you know you need to hit a certain rep and you stop too shy like that's good enough.

02:32:41.000 One day that happened, I said, just because of that, we're doing 20 more.

02:32:46.000 I said, son, that's what you apply even in life.

02:32:49.000 When you need to study and you're tempted to play that PlayStation 5, when you feel that, check your emotions and say, you know what, because of that, we can't play the whole day today.

02:32:58.000 And the good thing about that is when you do force yourself and you do develop that sort of a relationship with your body, if something is wrong, like honestly wrong, like if you're fighting off a cold, you'll know.

02:33:10.000 You'll be putting in the effort like, okay, this is not laziness.

02:33:14.000 This is something's going on with my body.

02:33:16.000 That's a great point.

02:33:17.000 And if you don't have that relationship, there's a lot of folks that don't exercise, and they don't know when a cold's coming on.

02:33:24.000 They really don't know.

02:33:25.000 They just feel lackadaisical.

02:33:27.000 They feel tired.

02:33:28.000 But you don't know how your body is really feeling unless you're used to exertion.

02:33:34.000 When you're used to hard exertion on a regular basis, and then you show up and you're looking for that full gas tank, and your body's like, not today, man.

02:33:44.000 Something's up.

02:33:45.000 And then you go, all right, today, you know what?

02:33:47.000 I'm just going to break a light sweat here today and maybe stretch out because something's legitimately wrong.

02:33:52.000 This is not laziness.

02:33:54.000 This is something wrong.

02:33:55.000 And you can avoid colds that way because a lot of people, one of the ways they get colds if they work out all the time is by not listening.

02:34:03.000 You know, you hear your body's tired and you're like, no, no, no, we're going to push through this.

02:34:07.000 We're going to push through this.

02:34:08.000 That's a good way to get sick.

02:34:09.000 That's a good, you know, I would get sick often in the gym and you're hitting it on the head typically when I overexert myself.

02:34:16.000 You feel it and you're like, no, no, no, I'm going to push through.

02:34:18.000 But you can't push through when your body is already doing work.

02:34:22.000 Your body's doing work because your immune system is trying to fight something off.

02:34:25.000 Yeah, isn't it called when you're in a catabolic state, basically, your body releases cortisol, and it's like the stress hormone, I believe.

02:34:35.000 And actually, a friend of mine, you see guys in the gym who lift constantly over and over again, putting their bodies through stress.

02:34:40.000 And you never see any improvement.

02:34:42.000 Right.

02:34:43.000 So one of my trainers was telling me many of those guys are in a catabolic state.

02:34:47.000 Basically where your muscles, your body starts feeding off of your muscles because you're not allowing your body to rest.

02:34:53.000 And I hope I'm saying it correctly.

02:34:54.000 I don't know what catabolic state means.

02:34:56.000 Yeah.

02:34:57.000 Want to Google that?

02:34:57.000 Yeah.

02:34:59.000 That's correct?

02:35:00.000 Yeah.

02:35:00.000 Okay, great.

02:35:00.000 Yeah.

02:35:01.000 That's a good word to use though.

02:35:03.000 Makes you sound very smart.

02:35:05.000 Glad we got confirmation here.

02:35:08.000 Catabolic state.

02:35:09.000 Yeah.

02:35:09.000 There it is.

02:35:10.000 Catabolic response to sepsis.

02:35:12.000 Severe injury and burn is characterized by whole body protein loss, mainly reflecting increased breakdown of muscle proteins, in particular myofibrillar proteins.

02:35:25.000 Oh, try to say that word.

02:35:27.000 I'm not.

02:35:30.000 Glucocorticoids.

02:35:31.000 And various pro-inflammatory cytokines are important regulators of muscle proteolysis in stressed patients.

02:35:44.000 Overtraining.

02:35:46.000 Yeah, there's a lot of people that do that.

02:35:48.000 And again, you've got to know when to rest.

02:35:49.000 Yeah, that's very good.

02:35:50.000 Go ahead.

02:35:51.000 I was going to say, but knowing your body is so beneficial to understanding when your body is actually fighting something off.

02:35:59.000 And people that don't know their body and don't push themselves, they really don't know, and then all of a sudden, bam, it hits them like a brick shithouse.

02:36:06.000 All of a sudden, they're sick, and they didn't see it coming at all.

02:36:09.000 Man, that's a great point.

02:36:10.000 I mean, if you don't work out, you're not used to your body being in a certain shape, you don't really...

02:36:14.000 That's a very good point.

02:36:15.000 You don't really know when it's not performing the way it should.

02:36:19.000 You don't know your vehicle.

02:36:20.000 Yeah, that's very good.

02:36:21.000 I lost my best friend, Daryl.

02:36:23.000 He was like a super strong guy, could bench press the 200-pound dumbbells in each hand for reps.

02:36:30.000 And I didn't know he had a massive heart attack on the job with us.

02:36:33.000 I think I mentioned that earlier.

02:36:36.000 I didn't know until the doctor told me that, you know, when you're lifting weights, it's stress, but it's positive stress.

02:36:43.000 So with Darrell, he had stress in the gym because he always lived heavy.

02:36:47.000 But when he left the gym, He has stress in real life.

02:36:50.000 And so it was compounded when he left the gym.

02:36:53.000 And so I said, so what do you do?

02:36:56.000 He says, when you're in those moments where you're so stressed, he says, I prefer that you just do cardio.

02:37:02.000 Don't lift heavy.

02:37:04.000 Just do cardio.

02:37:05.000 It's better for your body and your heart.

02:37:07.000 And I didn't think of it, but it is stress.

02:37:09.000 You're basically taxing your body if you're lifting heavy.

02:37:12.000 And so Darryl, what was happening to him, it was just compounding over and over every day.

02:37:18.000 And his heart broke down one day and I lost a very good friend of mine.

02:37:24.000 It's very important that we know our bodies and know what our bodies can take and what they can do.

02:37:31.000 And like you said, the best way to do that is, of course, creating a habit.

02:37:35.000 If you can just do something daily, which we all should with our bodies, we feel so much better.

02:37:40.000 And then we know proactively, you know, I need to pull back right now.

02:37:45.000 Yeah.

02:37:45.000 You'll have an understanding of how it works.

02:37:47.000 Yeah.

02:37:47.000 You know your body well, and you can tell.

02:37:50.000 You can tell when there's an issue.

02:37:52.000 That's good, yeah.

02:37:54.000 It helps me a lot, man, when I'm feeling compassion fatigue or stressed.

02:37:59.000 I don't lift.

02:38:00.000 When I do cardio, I feel amazing.

02:38:02.000 But I noticed when I was lifting heavy, I really wasn't as strong as I typically am or my joints were hurt a lot.

02:38:11.000 But when I just say, let me just do cardio today or some functional strength training, Man, I would feel amazing.

02:38:18.000 Yeah, cardio is fantastic for stress relief.

02:38:21.000 You know, just get on an exercise bike or elliptical machine or stair climber or something or treadmill.

02:38:26.000 Just go.

02:38:27.000 Just go and then, you know, really push yourself.

02:38:30.000 And then when you're done, it's like the stress of pushing yourself through a difficult cardio workout is so much harder Because you really can only do it for a short amount of time.

02:38:39.000 You only do it for an hour or so, right?

02:38:41.000 Whereas you could handle stress for a long-ass time.

02:38:44.000 But if you can just get that really difficult cardio out, it alleviates the pressure of whatever the other thing is.

02:38:52.000 Because it can't be as bad as what I just went through.

02:38:54.000 Yeah, for sure.

02:38:55.000 That's good.

02:38:56.000 That's good, man.

02:38:57.000 Yeah.

02:38:58.000 That's a great way to look at it, actually.

02:39:00.000 Yeah, man.

02:39:01.000 Because, you know, you're pushing yourself, especially if I do, like, the wind sprints on the treadmill, you know.

02:39:06.000 When you leave there, man, you just feel like you can take on the world, man.

02:39:10.000 It's so difficult.

02:39:11.000 Yeah.

02:39:12.000 And for me, personally, it's like I didn't neglect myself again helping someone else.

02:39:17.000 Right.

02:39:17.000 You know, so it's like, okay, cool.

02:39:19.000 Jason, today you are important.

02:39:21.000 Yeah.

02:39:22.000 And you matter in this, what you do.

02:39:24.000 So take this moment to take care of yourself and That cardio, to spend an hour, I have a lateral elliptical at home.

02:39:31.000 I love it, man.

02:39:33.000 No impact.

02:39:35.000 Yeah, and I feel great afterwards, man.

02:39:38.000 Sometimes I have a pump, man, even though I haven't lifted any weights, man.

02:39:43.000 It's amazing how the cardio provides stress relief versus just lifting weights.

02:39:51.000 They say that lifting weights, though, is really good for anxiety.

02:39:54.000 Really?

02:39:54.000 Yeah.

02:39:56.000 For some people, they get a good anxiety relief from lifting weights.

02:40:03.000 And I think some people, what their anxiety is, I think there's a lot of, obviously there's a lot of sources of anxiety, but for some people, it's actually a lack of exertion that's causing anxiety.

02:40:15.000 Because some people, they just live the sedentary lifestyle And in these sedentary lifestyles, I think you're trapped in this situation where your body wants to do something, but it's never happening.

02:40:29.000 And you create tension, you create stress, and sometimes people get anxious from that and they get anxiety.

02:40:35.000 And they say that lifting weights, because lifting weights is just a...

02:40:40.000 It's like a real, real force of exertion that...

02:40:44.000 That alone is great for anxiety.

02:40:47.000 I think there's different kinds of stress, different kinds of stressors, whether it's emotional stress or just existential angst, like just some weird feeling that you need to just go out.

02:40:59.000 So I don't think that lifting weights is necessarily a bad tool for alleviating stress, but it's not the only tool in the box.

02:41:08.000 Yeah, I guess what the doctor was saying is if you're really stressed—and again, it's no one-size-fits-all, and I've learned that as well as I've gotten older.

02:41:17.000 I used to tell guys, take this type of protein, this amino, this and that, and you'll be pumped.

02:41:22.000 I don't do that anymore because everyone's body is different.

02:41:25.000 And so I guess he was just trying to advise to me, like, look, man, if you're very stressed, let me just tell you what happens when you're lifting that heavy weight and what it's doing.

02:41:34.000 It's actually adding more stress to your body.

02:41:37.000 But in the case you're speaking of, people dealing with a certain type of anxiety, for them it may be different and they may release anxiety and need that weight to get them to exert an energy that they don't typically do.

02:41:50.000 And so that's, again, being in a space where you don't know it all and being cool with that.

02:41:56.000 It's like I just learned something else in this moment because I'm open to learn.

02:42:02.000 That one size fits all, even when I work with boys in a cave, I don't teach off a template model.

02:42:08.000 I teach each boy individually because everyone is dealing with things differently.

02:42:13.000 So I won't just have a blanket.

02:42:15.000 I have a plan, don't get me wrong.

02:42:17.000 But when a certain student is dealing with something, our whole class shifts to them.

02:42:22.000 In another kid, it shifts to them.

02:42:23.000 It shifts.

02:42:24.000 And so, I mean, you're right about that, man.

02:42:27.000 It's like, because you imagine if I was a doctor, I said, well, look here, you know, for you, I know that stress does this and that.

02:42:33.000 And now that person can't release the anxiety that they need to, that that weightlifting would do for them.

02:42:38.000 And so...

02:42:39.000 And I'd imagine that with you and teaching all these different boys and talking and mentoring all these different boys, you see different scenarios.

02:42:48.000 So that's probably very educational for yourself as well, just to get a broader perspective on what different people are going through.

02:42:55.000 You know, glad you brought that up.

02:42:57.000 A friend of mine, his son has autism.

02:43:00.000 And one day I'm tired leaving the cave and I get a call.

02:43:04.000 You know, I'm like, hey, what's up, Greg?

02:43:06.000 He's like, hey man, I need to see you immediately.

02:43:09.000 Such and such, he won't do his homework and I'm stressed.

02:43:13.000 And it goes back to when you asked me, like, you know, how do you keep doing it?

02:43:16.000 Because I know my calling.

02:43:18.000 I'm tired.

02:43:19.000 I want to go home and eat dinner.

02:43:21.000 But I said, no, let me help my friend and more so let me help his son.

02:43:24.000 I said, come on.

02:43:25.000 So he comes.

02:43:28.000 I had no idea what kids who are autistic have to deal with.

02:43:32.000 One day I went to a conference and they had a virtual reality headset.

02:43:36.000 And it was of kids who have autism.

02:43:41.000 And when I put it on, man, it was like the slightest sound was and the sound, the lights and everything, it was like chaotic almost.

02:43:51.000 And when I took him off, I'm like, I asked the professor, I said, this is what an autistic kid has to deal with?

02:43:57.000 He says, not all of them, but the majority of them, their senses are heightened to this level.

02:44:06.000 Joe, you know, as humans, we can be so insensitive and impatient.

02:44:13.000 I learned this with my mother with dementia.

02:44:16.000 I had to learn how to become one with what she felt and not dismiss what she felt.

02:44:23.000 If she forgot something, I used to say when we first started taking a journey, Mom, you just said that.

02:44:29.000 I heard you.

02:44:30.000 I learned eventually to say, I would just answer the question, even if it was a hundred times.

02:44:36.000 When I have a term in the book, Battle Cry, I talk about don't get on the emotional rollercoaster.

02:44:41.000 So my mom emotions would go up and down.

02:44:43.000 Every time I would get on that emotional rollercoaster with her, so would I. Now we're yelling, she's cursing me out, everything.

02:44:50.000 Now, when she would get on it, well, when she was here, I would allow her to ride the ride, but I was a caring parent, I would walk.

02:44:58.000 Watching her till she gets to the end of it and then grab her hand gently and walk her off till she gets her mental balance back.

02:45:06.000 I say this about the kid my friend bought.

02:45:09.000 When I saw that, He admitted that, like, man, he's different now, now that I love him in a different way.

02:45:18.000 Because as a parent of an autistic child, and I have one of my close friends who has his son that's autistic, it can wear you down.

02:45:27.000 And it does.

02:45:28.000 And so for me to support him was a blessing to him.

02:45:32.000 And then for me to have empathy for his son, because he was just scared.

02:45:37.000 And so what I did, Joel, he was looking at me like you are.

02:45:40.000 I go to his side.

02:45:42.000 I said, hey, what do you see?

02:45:45.000 And he just started talking.

02:45:47.000 I said, wow, man, that must be scary.

02:45:49.000 Really?

02:45:50.000 No way, dude.

02:45:51.000 How do you deal with that?

02:45:53.000 Man, you're strong.

02:45:55.000 Well, let's practice right now of just releasing what you're feeling.

02:45:59.000 So I grabbed two staffs, and actually before I gave him one, I said, I'm going to bring this staff to your head.

02:46:06.000 I want you to move at the same pace that I'm swinging it at you.

02:46:12.000 At first, when I was going slow, he would just jump down fast because he was scared.

02:46:17.000 I said, no, let's just go slow.

02:46:19.000 Match my timing.

02:46:21.000 Man, he starts slowing his thoughts down.

02:46:23.000 It was amazing.

02:46:25.000 And my friend just videoed it.

02:46:26.000 I said, stay in the moment, son.

02:46:28.000 Stay here.

02:46:29.000 Stay calm.

02:46:30.000 Whatever you're seeing is real, because it's real to them.

02:46:33.000 You never want to dismiss what they're seeing or what they're feeling.

02:46:36.000 That's what we air.

02:46:37.000 That's what everyone, man.

02:46:38.000 You know, if a friend of mine had a fear of balloons...

02:46:41.000 I'm going to look at it like it's rattler snakes or bats or whatever.

02:46:45.000 You know, I want to support you through that process.

02:46:48.000 When that happened, Joe, I was like, wow, it's the empathy.

02:46:53.000 It's the understanding.

02:46:55.000 It's like, and I'm going to be patient with you through this process.

02:46:59.000 Man, it changed him.

02:47:03.000 And then to see my friend, again, everyone has their own battles, but to see my friend grow as a father and then as a man and to become more patient, it's just a great thing to see and to say, man, you should feel this way,

02:47:18.000 okay?

02:47:19.000 You should be a little scared right now.

02:47:22.000 A lot of this stuff doesn't seem like it's playing out the way you want it.

02:47:25.000 And to see my friend walk in that and love his son, love his wife, his daughter, Through his anxieties.

02:47:35.000 And then to be there for him, it's amazing, man.

02:47:38.000 But it all starts when we are empathetic toward each other.

02:47:41.000 Never dismiss...

02:47:43.000 I don't dismiss anyone what they're feeling, man.

02:47:46.000 It's just...

02:47:47.000 It makes it much worse from my experience.

02:47:51.000 Yeah, I don't think there's any benefit in dismissing someone's individual experience.

02:47:57.000 When it comes to autism, one of the things that obviously everyone's case is different and different people have different symptoms and different ways it expresses itself.

02:48:08.000 A lot of times kids can find a thing, like autistic kids in particular, can find a thing and dedicate themselves to it and be extremely good at it.

02:48:19.000 Like I know a few kids that are on the spectrum that are into jiu-jitsu, and they are assassins.

02:48:26.000 Wow.

02:48:26.000 They're so good because it gave them purpose and it gave them something to focus on where they can just think about that.

02:48:37.000 The world of jujitsu, although it's very complex and it requires a lot of intellectual capacity as well as physical capacity, it's still contained in the world of two bodies interacting with each other with submissions.

02:48:55.000 And so for some autistic kids, the fact that it only exists on that mat, that it's contained there, and then they have all these complex interactions to go over, they can really focus on that.

02:49:09.000 And I just know several kids who are autistic who excel at martial arts because of that very reason.

02:49:18.000 Interesting.

02:49:19.000 Particularly jujitsu.

02:49:20.000 Wow.

02:49:21.000 I have one kid who's on the spectrum.

02:49:23.000 And we would just practice a steel drill.

02:49:25.000 That's what we call them.

02:49:26.000 We would just sit in front of each other, legs crossed, like an Indian pose, and just stare into each other's eyes.

02:49:33.000 And we would just sit there.

02:49:35.000 Eventually he was able to start, because at first he would just move.

02:49:39.000 Every time we're in session, he couldn't sit still.

02:49:43.000 And gradually he started just calming down and being okay with being in the moment.

02:49:48.000 But then when we were able to talk about, like, hey, how are you feeling?

02:49:52.000 You know, what are you thinking?

02:49:54.000 And then to find out what was really going on in his mind and then not to dismiss it.

02:50:00.000 I've seen it work, man.

02:50:01.000 It changes our kids.

02:50:03.000 It just does.

02:50:06.000 I just keep praying for patience with these boys.

02:50:13.000 It's a great responsibility that I have when I have someone so young in front of me that trusts me.

02:50:19.000 And wants me to help them.

02:50:21.000 And it's my job and responsibility to, you know, take my time.

02:50:27.000 And I want to feel what they feel so that I can help them overcome it.

02:50:32.000 You know, same thing with kids with ADHD symptoms, you know, being hyperactive and losing focus.

02:50:40.000 You know, we have a drill.

02:50:42.000 We put balls on top of both staffs, shorter ones.

02:50:45.000 And they have to sit there and look at the ball and not move.

02:50:49.000 And it's amazing.

02:50:50.000 I have a video of a kid couldn't sit still.

02:50:52.000 Just me teaching him my breathing techniques, he was able to sit still after just two minutes.

02:50:58.000 Because I said, I'm going to try something, and I'm going to be patient with you through the process.

02:51:03.000 And they feel that you have hope in them.

02:51:06.000 Like, you can do better, I got you.

02:51:08.000 And when you say, man, what you feeling, you can't tell a kid who's autistic or not autistic what they're feeling isn't real.

02:51:16.000 Because you're not in them.

02:51:17.000 You don't know.

02:51:18.000 That's the worst thing you can tell a kid.

02:51:19.000 You're wrong about that, the way you feel.

02:51:22.000 Of course, we can guide them down a path about what's right and wrong, but if that's what he feels or she feels, help them work through it.

02:51:31.000 I speak for myself prior to my son, Jason.

02:51:36.000 I didn't have patience.

02:51:37.000 You know, my mind, I'm too busy thinking of other things instead of what was the most important thing was my daughter in front of me.

02:51:44.000 And so I've learned that in the fathers in the academy.

02:51:47.000 I'm humbled when they come to me and ask me, you know, what can I do to be closer to my son or my daughter?

02:51:54.000 Am I yelling too much?

02:51:56.000 Am I too tough on them?

02:51:57.000 You know?

02:51:59.000 And I told one father, great man, I mean, beautiful brother, and he says, my son says, I'm too tough on him.

02:52:06.000 I said, well, I don't think you're too tough because you want him to be successful and you've got to help him with his discipline and everything else.

02:52:15.000 I said, but you're imbalanced.

02:52:17.000 And he said, what do you mean?

02:52:18.000 I said, well, typically when I say balanced, I kind of don't really believe in the concept.

02:52:24.000 What I mean is that if I had my family and my, I just say my family in one side of the scale and the other side is my job, what I do for a living and everything else, I will always want this scale to tip in favor of my family.

02:52:39.000 So I really want that unbalanced.

02:52:41.000 I don't want ever my family, the responsibility of caring for them to be equal with my profession.

02:52:49.000 That skill should always be here.

02:52:52.000 And so after I explained that to him, I said, now what I mean for balance for you is that you don't nurture him.

02:52:59.000 He was like, because he's been through some significant trauma.

02:53:03.000 And I don't want to share because I didn't ask permission, but he and his son and family.

02:53:07.000 I said, so now when you go, they was going to play a game somewhere.

02:53:12.000 I said, all right, when you go, don't teach them.

02:53:14.000 Just have fun.

02:53:16.000 And he laughed.

02:53:17.000 He says, thanks for telling me that.

02:53:19.000 Because he would have went teacher mode because why he wants his son to be successful.

02:53:23.000 But his son just needs dad.

02:53:25.000 Right.

02:53:26.000 And so many good men struggle with that.

02:53:28.000 I struggle with it, you know.

02:53:30.000 Everything is in a teachable moment with your son.

02:53:32.000 I don't have to teach a principal about the condensation on this water in front of us.

02:53:36.000 You can just enjoy your time together.

02:53:37.000 There you go.

02:53:38.000 Yeah.

02:53:38.000 Yeah, and so that's what I learned, my man, and to see men take hold of that.

02:53:44.000 And it's humbling when a man listens to me.

02:53:49.000 It's like the most humbling feeling ever because I look in the mirror daily.

02:53:56.000 But for a man to say thank you, it means the world to me, man, because someone just trusted me.

02:54:03.000 And then what I gave them would help them.

02:54:05.000 It just means the world, man.

02:54:07.000 It means a lot, you know.

02:54:09.000 And to know that I'm just like you, man, just a little more experienced in a different area gives them the confidence and they don't condemn themselves like they're just messing up.

02:54:18.000 I said, have someone ever told you to do this before?

02:54:22.000 He says, no.

02:54:23.000 Stop beating yourself up then.

02:54:25.000 If you've never been told this advice and this is new to you, run with it.

02:54:30.000 Now you know.

02:54:31.000 Yeah, that's it.

02:54:32.000 Don't say, man, I should've did this.

02:54:33.000 No, no, no, no.

02:54:34.000 Run with it.

02:54:36.000 And that's what we have to do.

02:54:38.000 Yep.

02:54:39.000 Jason, I'm glad you're out there.

02:54:40.000 I really am.

02:54:41.000 I really appreciate you.

02:54:42.000 I appreciate you coming here and sharing your time with me.

02:54:46.000 And I really appreciate your message that you put out on social media.

02:54:50.000 And you're doing a great service.

02:54:51.000 Thank you.

02:54:52.000 And not just with the cave, but also with everything else you do with your books and just the way that you can express yourself here today.

02:54:59.000 I really, really appreciate it.

02:55:00.000 I really appreciate you, you know, even offering an invite, man.

02:55:04.000 I'm humbled, you know, and when I walked in, I'm like, wow, this is really cool, man.

02:55:09.000 And thank you for, you know, all that you do.

02:55:11.000 I appreciate that you're, you know, a free thinker.

02:55:14.000 You know, you may get some flack here and there for that.

02:55:17.000 But man, you know, I admire your stance and what you believe in.

02:55:22.000 You know, for so long, I would be a people pleaser.

02:55:26.000 And it made me the most miserable person in my life.

02:55:29.000 And when I learned to really walk bold in my convictions, not condemn people, but just walk in my convictions without hurting people or whatever, just standing bold in what I believe in, I started finding some peace.

02:55:47.000 I became able to really walk out in what I believe and started helping more people.

02:55:53.000 Then the video went viral, and now I'm here.

02:55:56.000 And so I'm hoping that, you know, that continues.

02:56:00.000 This is just the beginning, my friend.

02:56:02.000 All right, I'm going to be calling you, man.

02:56:04.000 Thank you very much.

02:56:05.000 Thank you, Joe.

02:56:06.000 I appreciate it, man.

02:56:07.000 My pleasure.

02:56:07.000 Thank you, man.

02:56:08.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 05, 2021

Joe Rogan Experience #1692 - Jason Wilson

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