In this episode, I sit down with the founder of Boston Dynamics, a robotics company that makes a bipedal robot named Spot. We talk about the importance of human-robot interaction and how we can improve our understanding of the problem of human and robot interaction, and why it's important to have a distance between a human and a robot in order to avoid accidentally hurting them accidentally. We also talk about what it's like to work at a company like Boston Dynamics and why they have zero interest in touching a robot. And, of course, there's a little bit of robot trivia at the end of the episode. If you're not a robot nerd, you're in for a treat. This episode is for you if you're interested in learning more about what's going on in the world of robotics and artificial intelligence, and what it means to be a robot engineer. I hope you enjoy this episode and that it inspires you to get out there and explore all the amazing engineering feats that are going on around the world. Tweet me and let me know what you think! Timestamps: 0:00 - What do you think of this episode? 5:30 - What is your favorite robot movie? 6:40 - Why are you excited about the future of robotics & AI? 7:10 - What are you looking forward to working with Boston Dynamics? 8:15 - How do you feel about the Boston Dynamics robot? 9:20 - Why do you want to work with them? 10:00 11:00 | What do they have a problem? 12:30 | Why do they don t have a business model? 13:30 14:40 | What's your biggest pet peeve? 15:20 | What kind of robot would you like to see me touch? 16:10 | How do they get nervous about touching? 17:40 17, what do they're nervous about me? 18, what would you want me touch you? 19, what are you would you do with a robot that's not nervous? 22, what's your favorite thing? 21, what s your biggest challenge? 20, what is your biggest piece of advice you would like me to do? 23, do you have a robot you're working on? 26, what type of robot do you're looking for? 25, who are you working on right now?
00:01:21.000So, very specifically, I'm interested in the problem of human-robot interaction, where there's this beautiful dance between a human and a robot.
00:01:31.000The same way you have a dog that you love playing with.
00:01:36.000There's an excitement when Marshall looks at you and looks away and then looks at you again.
00:01:41.000And just that excitement, I want to understand how we can engineer that into our AI systems.
00:01:46.000So that's called human-robot interaction.
00:01:49.000From a perspective of Boston Dynamics, they want a machine that doesn't have anything to do with humans.
00:01:54.000They want a machine that patrols a factory looking for anything dangerous, or does surveillance on a factory floor, or helps in dangerous environments where it's too dangerous for humans, so you want a robot to do the work.
00:02:10.000You want always there to be a distance between a human and a robot.
00:02:14.000For me, I'm interested in exploring When human and robot close together.
00:02:19.000And I think that's actually really important to understand for safety as well.
00:02:23.000Robots should be able to detect and predict the movement of humans really well in order to avoid hurting them accidentally.
00:02:33.000You know, it's predicting the movement of pedestrians, predicting the movement of humans, whether it's the human body or the human hand on the factory floor.
00:02:42.000You have to understand the mind of humans.
00:04:11.000I want to inspire and educate the world.
00:04:13.000But they're like, is there some evil thing he's going to do?
00:04:16.000What do they think you're going to do?
00:04:17.000Well, it's like they only have stuff to lose.
00:04:21.000From my perspective, I love Boston Dynamics.
00:04:25.000I want to show off some awesome stuff with probably one of the greatest engineering feats in the space of robotics ever, which is both Atlas, the bipedal robot, and the Spot, the legged robots.
00:08:51.000But again, you're not going to recreate that artificially.
00:08:56.000It has to actually genuinely, naturally, organically be that guy, and that's who he is.
00:09:02.000But you have to allow people like that to rise to the top in all spaces of leadership.
00:09:06.000I see in politics, I don't know, Andrew Yang, somebody like that.
00:09:10.000Somebody who doesn't look like the past.
00:09:13.000And Elon Musk certainly doesn't look like the past in terms of CEOs.
00:09:16.000By the way, I know you're not a huge fan of Autopilot, or don't use it very often, but they have, because I want to squeeze in AI a little bit, they have Autonomy Day in a few days, Tesla does, and they're going to, they've been doing,
00:09:32.000I don't know if you've been paying attention, but they've been doing a lot of interesting stuff on the semi-autonomous, autonomous driving side.
00:09:40.000So one of the crazy things they're doing that I never thought would be possible is to use vision only for their FSD, for their autopilot, meaning cameras only.
00:09:54.000Talking about breaking with the ways of the past.
00:09:57.000So in the past, you always have radar.
00:09:59.000You have more, quote unquote, reliable sensors for emergency situations.
00:10:08.000So here, Tesla is using only cameras, so only vision.
00:10:12.000The logic there is our roads are all designed for human eyes, therefore you should be able to drive with only visual information.
00:10:20.000The problem is with rain, with fog, with all those conditions, with night, how are you going to be able to do it?
00:10:26.000The fact that they're doing so much more successful than I would expect is quite incredible from an NAI perspective.
00:10:35.000And they're just going full steam ahead there with something called Dojo, which is...
00:10:41.000I don't know if you know how this whole process works, but...
00:10:45.000They're basically deploying a version of autopilot software to a fleet of vehicles.
00:10:51.000Those cars are driving, sometimes by humans, sometimes by AI. And then whenever AI runs into trouble, that's a little data point that they send back to the mothership.
00:11:02.000And then it retrains the system, and the system gets smarter and smarter, and then redeploys a smarter version.
00:11:11.000This loop, it sounds maybe trivial, but it's one of the first large-scale implementation of an AI system in the world that does this kind of loop.
00:11:22.000oftentimes when you deploy these kinds of systems, you deploy them, and the time between versions is like years.
00:11:29.000You have to basically buy a new smartphone or something like that.
00:11:31.000Here, the time between new versions is every week.
00:11:35.000I think every Friday they're releasing a new version, something like that, which is a, you know, it's a revolutionary idea.
00:11:43.000It sounds ridiculously simple, but it's revolutionary in that as opposed to deploying a perfect system, you deploy a system that's not perfect, and then it improves over time and converges towards something that's safer than human drivers.
00:11:58.000And then the Dojo computer is they're building their own huge system that's doing the training.
00:12:03.000So to train neural networks or AI systems, you have to have specialized hardware.
00:12:09.000So, Elon, this is another really interesting lesson for companies, especially car companies.
00:12:14.000As opposed to outsourcing the work to other companies, you do it all in-house.
00:12:19.000So if you look at the history of Tesla, at first it was distributed across other suppliers and so on, but they're doing more and more and more in-house.
00:12:29.000I think that the dream is you have a single factory, like here, Giga in Austin, Texas, where the input is raw materials and the output is a finished car.
00:12:39.000And they're doing the same thing with the AI. They don't want to use GPUs and computers from somebody else.
00:13:41.000Andrew Huberman is coming to town and he's doing this thing that like, I don't know, it's like Stephen King style thing where he's just locking himself in a room and writing.
00:13:52.000He has to finish his, he's working on a book, some like science related book.
00:15:51.000But I know guys who write on a typewriter because they don't want to fuck with anything electronic where they have this potential for distraction.
00:16:03.000I know guys who write longhand for that reason, too.
00:16:05.000They just have a notebook and they write it out on notepaper.
00:16:08.000But then again, what if you lose your notebook?
00:17:35.000Like Man's Search for Meaning with Viktor Frankl is the Holocaust and is the story of a man in a concentration camp finding meaning and beauty in a moment of suffering.
00:18:24.000Just put it in perspective, like what's going on over there now.
00:18:28.000And it's, you know, I mean, books are amazing for putting things into perspective, but there's something about a documentary, especially a boots-on-the-ground documentary by a journalist like Sebastian Junger in Afghanistan while Afghanistan is falling to the Taliban.
00:18:55.000First of all, I forgot, like I think you have a sense of what they mean when they talk about these mountainous areas, this mountainous terrain that's impossible really to control because it's very difficult to traverse,
00:19:13.000I don't think you really understand it until you watch that film, until you really see the mountains and you're like, oh god, like how is anybody ever going to control this area?
00:20:06.000Like, even things that seem relevant to...
00:20:10.000Did you watch the videos today of people trying to climb aboard planes and falling to their deaths?
00:20:15.000The planes are taking off, these guys are hanging on to the landing gear, and as the landing gear pulls up, they're falling to their death.
00:20:32.000I actually have not been paying attention to what's happening.
00:20:34.000Jamie, show him some of the videos because it's heartbreaking.
00:20:41.000Yeah, these are people just literally climbing all over these ladders, doing whatever they can, trying to force themselves onto these planes.
00:20:49.000But the really fucked one is, look, these guys hanging on the landing gear.
00:21:25.000Could they have designed a better withdrawal plan that scaled over time, where they gave particularly the people that helped the American military over there,
00:21:41.000that they're very vulnerable right now.
00:23:08.000Obviously, the old-school way is military, or also maybe economic pressures.
00:23:15.000But then it becomes difficult, because you've taken on that project, and then you get the thing that you get in Afghanistan.
00:23:24.000And, you know, it's a project that takes 10 years, it takes 20 years, and then ultimately it's not successful.
00:23:29.000The Afghanistan situation is so crazy because, you know, Biden was on television just a little while ago talking about how there's 300,000 armed Afghanistan soldiers that were trained by the United States and there's only 75,000 Taliban.
00:23:45.000There's no way that they're going to fall.
00:23:52.000You know, it's like the whole situation is very confusing to someone who doesn't understand it.
00:23:57.000If you're a guy who fought over there, too, it's got to be insanely frustrating.
00:24:03.000People spilled blood over there, people lost limbs over there, and then they're seeing how quickly we just pulled out in an abandoned ship.
00:25:35.000I mean, I do find the libertarian argument here the most sophisticated and convincing is we should stay out of other people's business until we have a really clear good plan.
00:25:51.000The majority of Americans, given a transparent communication of what is going on and what we're going to do, the majority of Americans are behind this plan.
00:26:03.000When you have something like Nazi Germany, where there's obvious atrocities happening, where there's an obvious war on the horizon, then that's different.
00:26:17.000Well, if that's the case, then why aren't we invading North Korea?
00:26:21.000If Wynome Park and all these different people that have escaped from North Korea are telling the truth, there's a Holocaust going on there right now.
00:26:28.000I mean, they're literally starving their people.
00:26:30.000They're putting their people in concentration camps.
00:26:32.000They're having children born in concentration camps for the crimes of their grandparents.
00:26:37.000And their children will also be born in these camps, in these prison camps.
00:28:30.000It's so fucked because I'm trying to be kind here.
00:28:36.000Misfits need love too and and misfits need a purpose and That is what I got on that documentary at least the first two episodes I mean free speech also, you know the family that runs 8chan in the Philippines Like their commitment to free speech and to let people just do whatever the fuck they want to do like In many ways,
00:28:59.000I agree and see their point but the not even but What I'm seeing in the documentary though, these people that are into QAnon, the people that were following the drops,
00:29:16.000the people that were deeply invested in believing that this was some person who, I don't know, maybe they'd resolve this later on in the series, I don't know, after two.
00:30:33.000Yeah, he was interesting because he said, I think it was in the first episode, he says something like, you know, he is disabled and, you know, like people were generally in public nice to him.
00:30:46.000But then when he went in anonymous forums, people were basically just cruel to him.
00:31:32.000The cool thing about that documentary to me, I always had a hunch, but that documentary makes it clear to me that one person can be Q. So the documentary from the very beginning, I don't think they'll resolve it.
00:31:48.000But it's the guy that's currently running it.
00:33:07.000I knew from the very beginning that Q... If it's controlled by a government agency, like in Russia or something like that, it's because they acquired a single person who was good at this.
00:33:21.000It's pretty easy for a single person to control anonymous forums in this way.
00:33:26.000With some combination of bots and just individuals.
00:33:42.000You're telling beautiful stories, like some mystery, some painting a picture of evil that you get to fight, painting a picture of a better world if you defeat the evil.
00:33:53.000All those things you can do pretty effectively through technology by a single person.
00:33:59.000I thought it was clearly manipulative from the start because if you look at the way Q is writing, like everything is a mystery and a puzzle.
00:34:07.000If you're trying to release information and you're doing so anonymously, why wouldn't you be clear and succinct?
00:34:14.000Because they're playing games with misfits.
00:34:34.000He tapes his fucking glasses, the little thing in the corner.
00:34:37.000That could have been done for the movie, too, because I'm looking at other pictures of him and there are no pictures of taped up glasses, but I had to find that one.
00:34:43.000Well, maybe he broke his glasses right before, but I'm suspicious.
00:34:47.000I'm suspicious of the taped up glasses.
00:36:01.000No, I thought it was probably some wackadoo who works with Trump who is enjoying the fact that he has access and he's playing games with people.
00:36:16.000The way they're communicating with like puzzles and then all these QAnon dorks, all these people that are like these misfits that they follow in this documentary that are really obsessed with it.
00:36:27.000They have to like try to piece the puzzle together.
00:36:49.000You don't have to reveal your identity, but reveal the information very clearly.
00:36:53.000The way he speaks in these broken sentences, and the fact that it's coded, this is someone who's fucking with people.
00:37:02.000But the thing is, what I got out of this documentary so far, is that, look, if you get a hundred people in the room, You're gonna have a misfit.
00:37:14.000One person in that room is gonna be an outcast, they're not gonna fit in, and they're gonna be searching for meaning and longing, and this is just, they don't have like a very clear place where they fit into the puzzle.
00:37:30.000So if you get a hundred people and one of them is like that, well you have 330 million people in this country.
00:37:38.000So you have fucking millions and millions of misfits.
00:37:42.000See, I think the number, I mean, you're just giving an example.
00:37:46.000I think the number of people who are searching and are a bit lost and are deeply lonely is much closer to 100% than to 1%.
00:37:57.000Yeah, there's a depth of loneliness in all of us and we're searching for meaning.
00:38:00.000I really honestly think that if you look at the spread of the people in the world, I'm not saying 100%, but I'm saying there's a population of 60-70% that, I mean, they're not radicalized, but they're searching.
00:38:14.000And we're searching for stories to unite over.
00:38:31.000They're doing it with false narratives and they're rising up against, I would say, the wrong kind of power centers.
00:38:37.000But the fact that people can do that, I think, starting from a single person is exciting to me and is promising to me because I ultimately believe in the positive aspects of human nature.
00:38:50.000But I also do believe people are searching and we're hungry.
00:38:54.000So what we're calling misfits, you're a misfit.
00:38:58.000You're just like, you're a busy misfit that runs on a treadmill.
00:39:03.000So you don't have time to check forums.
00:39:05.000Well, I'm not interested in it either.
00:39:08.000I see what they're doing, this longing for community.
00:39:13.000And I get my community in different ways.
00:39:16.000But if I didn't have stand-up comedy, if I didn't have jiu-jitsu, if I didn't have podcasting, I would try to find community in some way.
00:39:25.000And I think when I say misfits, a lot of these folks...
00:39:30.000They're just social outcasts, right, in a lot of ways.
00:39:33.000And it's not just that they're misfits.
00:39:35.000They're kind of disconnected to, you know, like the lady who's missing her front tooth and the husband telling the kid, build that wall, build that wall.
00:39:48.000These are goofy people that they don't have, like, I don't think they have many conversations with objective, intelligent people that are well-informed.
00:39:58.000So when they're having these conversations, I think they lack the experience of critical thinking skills, and so they'll believe all kinds of stupid shit.
00:40:07.000You know, like the guy who got super excited that he thinks that Trump was pointing at him.
00:42:36.000I have Watchtower documents heavily redacted by the agency.
00:42:39.000I was personally exposed to CIA operations and recruited by CIA personnel who attempted to recruit me in the late 70s to become involved in protecting agency drug operations in this country.
00:42:51.000I have been trying to get this out for 18 years and I have the evidence.
00:42:54.000My question for you is very specific, sir.
00:42:57.000If in the course of the IG's investigations, and Fred Hitz's work, you come across evidence of severely criminal activity, and it's classified, will you use that classification to hide the criminal activity, or will you tell the American people the truth?
00:43:17.000I think we missed the beginning of it where he said that he personally witnessed the CIA selling drugs.
00:43:23.000This is 1996 allegations of CIA involvement in drug trafficking.
00:43:32.000I mean, this is how Freeway Ricky Ross, the original real Rick Ross, made millions and millions and millions of dollars.
00:43:39.000He thought he was just an awesome drug dealer.
00:43:42.000Well, he was an awesome drug dealer that was working with the CIA, unbeknownst to him.
00:43:45.000Like, they were allowing him to sell drugs so they could profit off of it, so they could funnel the money into the war with the Contras and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.
00:43:54.000And this was when Clinton was president?
00:43:57.000No, it was when Reagan was president that it was all going down, but this was when Clinton was president, that he was on television talking about it.
00:44:04.000By the way, there's not often, I'm a big fan of JRE, there's not often when I do a podcast interview, I was talking to Roger Reeves, and I'm thinking, I wish I wasn't doing this interview, and I wish I was listening to this on your show.
00:45:27.000Well, it also touches my heart because it's like, go to see about a girl.
00:45:34.000He's been with his wife through that whole thing.
00:45:37.000She was with him through all the crazy times, and when he was in prison for many, many years, she stayed with him, and now they're back together, and there's I got to hang out with them, and they're in love.
00:47:49.000But, you know, since actually doing that interview, a bunch of people have written me, like, they weren't in jail with him, in prison with him.
00:47:57.000Like, everybody speaks really highly of him.
00:49:28.000You know, and it's infuriating for adults, for grown adults.
00:49:33.000They should be able to make informed decisions.
00:49:34.000And if they just had pure cocaine, which they would be able to get if it was legal, instead of the stepped-on bullshit that people are getting, it'd probably be a lot better for you.
00:49:42.000When you talk to Dr. Karl Hart, have you ever had him on your show?
00:50:34.000So that might not be right for everyone, but we should at least do really good science on who is it right for, what are the protocols, how to do it in a healthy way, all that kind of stuff.
00:50:43.000Do you know how many people are on OxyContin right now?
00:50:45.000How many people are on Oxycodone and how many people have back pains and their doctors prescribe some opiates and they take them on a regular basis?
00:50:55.000How many people in the United States regularly take prescribed opiates?
00:51:00.000Because there's very little difference between opiates prescribed in pill form and heroin.
00:51:07.000The difference is, again, with heroin, you're getting it from some fucking crazy sources and you don't know what's in it.
00:51:13.000If you get oxycodone and oxycontin and the various pills that you get opiates in, you're getting it, at least you're getting a pharmaceutical grade version of it.
00:51:23.000And then Jordan Peterson went through hell because of...
00:51:57.000Okay, let's just go to 2019 because it drops quite a bit.
00:52:00.000But still, because they tightened down the regulations and there's a lot of documentaries about the abuse of it, but In 2019, it's quite a bit less, but it's still 153,260,450 prescriptions.
00:53:53.000There's a lot of shady shit that happened in the past few decades that I've not kind of tuned my mind to.
00:54:00.000Well, they were aware that billions and billions of dollars were being made.
00:54:05.000And so rogue elements of government agencies participated in the trafficking of this and they funneled that money into black operations, you know, like they did with the Sandinistas and the Contras versus the Contras.
00:55:22.000Do we really need laws for substances that could potentially cause you to commit crimes?
00:55:29.000Because if you get drunk and you are friendly drunk like you are in real life and you just laugh and we have a good time, then that's fine.
00:55:35.000But if you get drunk and you go out there and you want to fight the security guards and you want to go across the street to 7-Eleven and kick somebody's ass, the problem is the actions.
00:55:44.000The problem is not the substance itself.
00:55:46.000The problem is what are you doing when you're on these substances?
00:55:49.000Well, we already have laws to stop you from doing those things.
00:55:51.000Are we saying that if you drink alcohol that it's impossible for you to control your violent urges?
00:55:57.000Well, you have a problem with violent urges.
00:55:59.000It has nothing really to do with alcohol.
00:56:42.000Yeah, he is, and he's brilliant at it.
00:56:44.000He's also just like one of the most well-read, one of the most brilliant people I've ever talked to, which is hilarious because he has all of these, sometimes literally, masks that he can put on and take off.
00:56:56.000It's like the most masterful troll I've ever encountered in my life.
00:57:00.000He spent a lot of time on the internet.
00:57:43.000I always wonder, like Elon Musk, I wonder in each industry there's like a rare moment when there's like this weird shooting star, this glimmering weird thing that happens.
00:57:58.000I've been obsessed watching soccer lately, football.
00:58:33.000He's made millions and millions of dollars, and he's also been given millions and millions of dollars by all sorts of very, very rich Muslim people who love him, and they gifted him money.
01:00:01.000Now, I'm biased a little bit, but I think Russian is a language that is more effective at communicating, feeling, Emotion, suffering.
01:00:15.000The way the language has evolved, because it went through the 20th century, through the wars, through the atrocities, through all of that, I think there's something to that, where the language carries the burden of the people, the suffering of the people with it.
01:00:30.000The American experiment has a different trajectory that results in a different language, and I would say American language is much more simplistic.
01:00:40.000So you can't fuck with the words as much.
01:00:46.000The way the Russian language works, you can adjust the words to completely change the meaning.
01:00:52.000Plus, swearing is an art form in Russia.
01:01:12.000So what you find when people suffer, when you go through the war, when you go through poverty, more people become comedians because humor is a way to escape pain.
01:01:25.000We're not talking about professional comedians.
01:01:28.000You get some vodka, you get a guitar, and you're just shooting the shit.
01:01:32.000There's much more of that energy because there's nothing else to do.
01:01:36.000And then the laughter is one of the only ways to deal with the absurdity of the government taking everything away from you, all those kinds of things.
01:01:44.000And so there's a natural humor to the language, there's a natural ability to like between the lines to communicate pain.
01:01:53.000That's why you have all the poets, there's Dostoevsky, even shooting way farther back Tolstoy.
01:02:01.000So there's a history of literature being used to communicate that pain.
01:02:05.000I think Russian language is better at doing that.
01:02:10.000But there's also kind of a, culturally speaking, there's an inclination to romanticize things, like to be kind of philosophical.
01:02:19.000I think that has to do with the early education system in Russia, under the Soviet Union especially, was such that everybody was forced to read really heavy literature early on, like way early on, and also do some Like math.
01:02:37.000The level of education in Russia in the first five years, the first eight years, leading up to ten, is just an order of magnitude more intense than it is in America.
01:02:51.000Where America catches up is the college.
01:02:54.000America dominates the world in university education.
01:02:57.000But in terms of high school, middle school, elementary school, American education is very soft.
01:04:20.000There's philosophy in the way people spoke.
01:04:23.000And I think that's connected to the language, but I'm not sure it's like the chicken or the egg.
01:04:28.000I don't know if just the language is being used in this way or the language enables that kind of communication.
01:04:34.000That does make me wonder, because I know English and Russian, how much I'm losing that I can't speak Chinese or Japanese or Portuguese.
01:04:45.000Like, how much of the culture am I missing that I'll never get a chance to truly deeply experience?
01:04:50.000Yeah, I would imagine that if you could understand Mandarin, if you could speak Mandarin and Get an understanding of how the government communicates with the people, how the government controls people in China,
01:05:06.000what they allow, what kind of conversations they allow.
01:05:10.000I'm sure you saw the John Cena video where he was apologizing to China.
01:05:16.000I would love to hear these billionaires that are apologizing to China, like Jack Ma.
01:05:23.000They disappeared him for four months and then he came back and he was happy to be alive.
01:05:29.000They took billions of dollars from his company, devalued it, did a lot of weird shit, right?
01:06:40.000And when they have their tentacles into all these servers and into everyone's phone and into everyone's computer, The consequences of communicating openly are very real.
01:06:55.000Yeah, but first of all, the surveillance is not perfect.
01:06:58.000But second of all, even without electronics, what surveillance used to look like is what is currently in North Korea is you don't know who to trust.
01:07:09.000You feel like everybody, your parents, your sister, your brother, your kids are all watching you.
01:07:14.000Well, they all report on each other in North Korea.
01:07:32.000That's kind of what I'm saying is I wish I was able to connect to that literature being written right now in China.
01:07:41.000That probably is circulating and a lot of people know, but we just don't have a connection because China is a good example, at least from the way I understand, of there being a very big gap culturally and language-wise between America and China.
01:07:56.000Even bigger than I would say between America and Russia.
01:08:00.000So it really is a leap of language, a leap of culture required to truly understand the people.
01:08:40.000You're not allowed to sing and karaoke.
01:08:42.000I mean, the overwhelming censorship that they have and the overwhelming control that they have over the population is very different than what we tolerate currently.
01:08:51.000My concern over here is that we're moving towards some sort of social credit score.
01:08:57.000And I think that's one of the big concerns that people have with vaccine passports and things along those lines.
01:09:36.000Yeah, it's terrifying because people, for the most part, are losing trust in our institutions and governments and being able to use something like vaccine passport data to help us as opposed to limit our freedoms.
01:09:53.000And that's really disappointing because things like vaccine passports might be effective if it was done by competent institutions.
01:10:03.000But right now, I would definitely be against something like that.
01:10:07.000Well, the problem with it is you can still transmit it and you can still catch it.
01:10:10.000So if it was a vaccine passport for polio, okay.
01:10:46.000That's the discussion with ivermectin.
01:10:48.000It's like, what do we know about the long-term?
01:10:51.000It's been used for a long time, but we still don't have a good understanding of long-term positive or negative effects of ivermectin.
01:10:58.000We don't have a good understanding of positive and negative long-term effects of mRNA vaccines.
01:11:04.000But they have other things for therapeutics like Regeneron, the monoclonal antibodies that show incredible effectiveness.
01:11:10.000There's other things that they do that, you know, help people when they have the disease.
01:11:15.000But as far as I understand, I mean the data on vaccines, it's like you have a set of solutions and the question is which one has the best ratio of benefits to risks.
01:11:28.000It seems to me that the vaccine has the best benefit to risk ratio.
01:11:36.000It's very confusing to me that we're not opening schools and still behaving in certain parts of the United States like we're on lockdown.
01:11:46.000So that's really confusing to me because from my understanding, taking the vaccine significantly lowers your risk of death or ending up in a hospital.
01:11:56.000So if anyone who wants to take the vaccine or is at risk or wants to lower their risk of dying will take the vaccine.
01:12:05.000Everyone else accepts the risk of dying.
01:12:31.000Certain companies want to force people to be vaccinated and then there's the issues of side effects of vaccines and whether or not they're fully understood and particularly long term and whether or not they've been fully reported.
01:12:46.000And then also there's a lack of responsibility.
01:12:50.000The vaccine manufacturers don't have any responsibility in terms of what does or does not happen to someone once they can't be sued.
01:13:00.000So the problem is the source of information for the effectiveness of vaccines and the risks are coming from centralized institutions that have completely lost trust of the public.
01:13:16.000Well, have you ever Googled, like, the lawsuits that are involved in the judgments against the various companies that have built these vaccines?
01:13:25.000It's some stunning corruption in the past and some horrible cases where they've shown to withhold evidence and studies.
01:13:40.000People don't trust pharmaceutical companies and they haven't for a long time.
01:13:44.000And now there's a lot of money to be made to get people vaccinated and to make that public policy.
01:14:16.000You don't have just the fact that people don't trust him.
01:14:20.000You have the mainstream media ignoring all the things that he's done that would lead people to distrust him, particularly financing EcoHealth Alliance, which was responsible for gain-of-function research in Wuhan, which is responsible, perhaps,
01:14:35.000for the leak of this fucking virus in the first place.
01:14:38.000Which, by the way, if he was completely transparent about that, he was able to just talk about it normally, like a human being.
01:14:47.000There was a lot of interesting arguments about gain-of-function research for a long time.
01:14:52.000It's very difficult to understand whether it should be funded.
01:14:54.000I think it definitely should not be funded.
01:14:58.000We should not be doing gain-of-function research.
01:15:00.000Well, if they are doing it, it should be done with responsible labs.
01:15:02.000And they know that that lab in Wuhan was cited in 2018 for safety violations.
01:15:07.000But the problem to me with Fauci isn't the actions he did, it's the lack of transparency and just basic human, authentic communication.
01:15:15.000It's the same problem as with Bill Gates.
01:15:17.000I think Bill Gates is a brilliant person, I like him, but there's something shady about the way he communicates about stuff.
01:15:23.000Whenever he buys a lot of land, he's not very clear about communicating why he bought that land.
01:15:28.000And so immediately, conspiracy theories spring up that spread effectively through our Q friend, And others like him.
01:15:37.000And the final result that hurts my heart deeply is the mistrust in science.
01:15:44.000So like mistrust in scientific institutions lead to mistrust in science.
01:15:48.000And then there's like this kind of sense that science sucks.
01:15:51.000No, science and technology enables the high quality of life that you currently have.
01:15:56.000It gives you the freedom to be able to tweet and the freedom period to choose the path in life for most of the people in the United States.
01:16:14.000The best aspect of life that you can think of are presented by science today.
01:16:21.000So there's a lot of great stuff being done by science.
01:16:23.000Don't let shady, greedy assholes at the very kind of top that are communicating science as part of our government be somehow connected to what is the essence of science.
01:16:37.000So that to me hurts me in this conversation about vaccines is that somehow it's somehow leading to a mistrust in all the amazing things that science has brought us.
01:16:51.000There's also a problem with people like him where they say things, they say these statements, these statements that you're led to believe that they have an understanding of the situation, and they clearly can tell you where it's going and what's possible and where we're at with the virus.
01:17:13.000But then it turns out they're 100% wrong.
01:17:15.000But then they come up with a new statement, and you're supposed to believe that.
01:17:19.000Remember, like, in the beginning, he was saying that masks are ineffective.
01:17:22.000He was saying there's no asymptomatic transmission of the virus.
01:17:25.000There's all these different statements.
01:18:11.000And ego is the thing that destroys all awesome things.
01:18:14.000If you let ego get in the way, that's always going to destroy things.
01:18:18.000So I'm sure Fauci was an excellent scientist for most of his life.
01:18:22.000The higher and higher you get in a position, especially administrative positions, that power starts getting to you.
01:18:29.000Well, he's used to communicating for most of his career without the internet.
01:18:35.000You gotta think, he was the guy who was the head of the United States response to the AIDS crisis.
01:18:42.000And he was the guy who was responsible, I don't know what his exact role was, in prescribing AZT for people who had AIDS, which turned out to be disastrous.
01:18:57.000Okay, so, you know, I don't know the actual decisions.
01:19:01.000I'm sure he might have, there have been a lot of things we're not saying that made him a great scientist.
01:19:05.000The point is, he's not a great communicator of science, or certainly a great leader.
01:19:10.000And what we need now is a great leader to communicate the current data available in the vaccines, as far as I understand.
01:19:20.000Like, from everything I see, and that's why, like, Brett Weinstein stands on his own with, like, an army of mainstream media against them, sort of communicating what are the different options out there, like Ivermectin, one of them.
01:19:37.000I tend to think the effectiveness of ivermectin will not be as high as he predicts.
01:19:45.000I think the effectiveness of ivermectin has only been really proven in terms of prophylactic.
01:19:52.000As a prophylactic, I think it has a high level of effectiveness according to some of the studies that they've done like out of Argentina and a few other places where they did it with frontline workers.
01:20:03.000I think the studies and some of them have been shown to be not great studies.
01:20:38.000There's the ability to collect really good data on the vaccine, but the way it's being collected is very shady in terms of breakthrough cases and not being measured well.
01:20:48.000And on the flip side, the reporting of when the use of the vaccine leads to side effects is not done well.
01:21:26.000If someone decided to misinform people purposely and then talk about, you know, the under-reporting of side effects and what's really going on and how, you know, the long-term effects have been demonstrated but they're holding that information from you and then people start leaking that.
01:21:43.000And the final result is nobody trusts anything, so you don't know what to do.
01:21:48.000And then how are you supposed to proceed forward?
01:21:52.000And then government kind of continues wanting to gain more and more power by sort of doing actions like lockdowns and enforcing vaccinations and all those kinds of things because that allows you to grow government.
01:22:10.000It feels like it's not heading towards a solution.
01:22:13.000To me, there's a few obvious solutions from the very beginning.
01:22:17.000There should have been the world's largest infrastructure project for testing.
01:22:21.000There should be at-home testing every single day from May of 2020. It's super cheap, less than a dollar to manufacture tests taken every single day.
01:22:36.000It gives you complete knowledge and freedom to make your own decisions whether to go out or not.
01:22:41.000Well, there's the other problem, is that as soon as there's a crisis, then the government changes its position from working for the people, people that are elected to work for you, to try to make life better and more organized, to someone who controls people and tells them what to do because of the safety of the masses.
01:26:59.000It's very uncomfortable to be in the middle of this.
01:27:03.000And it's also, it's one of those things where people have a position and then they get very emotional and very angry supporting their position, defending their position, and attacking the other position.
01:27:16.000Well, you're either attacking my family's health or you're attacking my freedom.
01:27:51.000This guy has some very strong opinions about it and said he would have resigned if he was working there when they were releasing the vaccines.
01:28:02.000People have super strong opinions about this.
01:28:06.000And I think over time we're going to find out what side was correct.
01:28:35.000There'll be documents and data released who was right on this, whether masks were an effective solution, whether vaccines were effective solutions.
01:30:18.000I would hope, and this is one thing that I'm kind of disappointed, that there would be some sort of a push for health.
01:30:25.000There'd be a push for people to change their diet and start a rigorous exercise routine.
01:30:32.000One of the things that we are absolutely sure of is that the people that get hit the hardest are the people that are in poor shape.
01:30:39.000People that are obese, people that have underlying health conditions, a lot of them that could be mitigated by exercise and diet and a loss of weight.
01:30:48.000There's so many people that have all sorts of health problems that could be mitigated by becoming healthy and losing weight.
01:31:18.000Well, there's probably some room in the middle where someone should say, this is probably going to be exacerbated by the fact that you're obese.
01:31:29.000So if you lost weight and you got healthier, you'd have a way better time of it if you caught it, and you're going to have a way better life, period.
01:31:39.000And wouldn't this be a good time to do this now, now that we realize that we're in a health crisis?
01:33:55.000Find out that study that they did with Wim Hof and what university it was at.
01:33:59.000But, you know, he was trying to explain that you can regulate your immune system with breathing exercises, these crazy deep breathing exercises.
01:34:12.000And, you know, most people hear that and they go, what kind of fucking nonsense is that?
01:35:22.000Studies show that by using his method, Wim was able to voluntarily influence his autonomic nervous system, something which until then was thought impossible.
01:35:30.000This groundbreaking finding published in PNAS and Nature established credibility, quite literally rewrote biology textbooks, and piqued scientist's curiosity.
01:35:40.000What does it say though that they did though?
01:35:45.000There's actually some papers that showed Yeah, there it is.
01:35:51.000Voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous system attenuation of the innate immune response in humans.
01:35:59.000So this is the study, this is the very same study?
01:37:03.000This endotoxin was obtained from the Pharmaceutical Development Section of the National Institutes of Health, supplied as a lyophilized...
01:37:21.000Lyophilized powder and was reconstituted in five milliliters of saline at 0.9% for the injection and vortex mixed for at least 20 minutes after reconstitution.
01:37:32.000The LPS solution was administered as an IV bolus injection at a dose of two nanograms per kilogram body weight in one...
01:37:44.000Placed in an anticubital vein to permit infusion of 0.9 NACI solution.
01:38:02.000This is like in extreme scientific terms.
01:38:07.000Yeah, I like the details of exactly what they did.
01:38:09.000Yeah, continuous monitoring of blood pressure and blood sampling, heart rate, blood pressure, respiratory rate, oxygen saturation data were recorded from a Philips MP50 patient monitor every 30 seconds by a custom in-house developed data recording system starting at one hour before administration of LPS until discharge from the intensive care unit eight hours after LPS administration.
01:39:17.000When you're around Wim Hof and he's talking to you about breathing, you get a sense that there's this energy that this guy has, this power that this guy has.
01:39:27.000And so when you think about that in terms of what he's able to do with this study, you go, okay, well, how much of this is applicable to a regular person?
01:39:41.000Like, if you show a white belt an arm bar, I take some guy and go, hey, I'm going to show you how to do an arm bar, and then you're going to put me in your guard, and then you're going to try to do an arm bar.
01:40:08.000How much time does it take to have that kind of control of your body?
01:40:13.000See, I tend to believe, I'm with Donahar on this, I tend to believe basically almost anybody can become that.
01:40:18.000I mean, there's a few ingredients, but with the right coaching, with the right sort of focus, I think maybe not the greatest ever, but you can become pretty damn good.
01:40:31.000Well, you have to have physical resiliency in jujitsu, meaning that your body has to hold up through the training.
01:40:38.000That's the difference between jujitsu and, say, breathing exercises.
01:40:42.000The breathing exercises, the risk of injury isn't there.
01:40:46.000The thing about jujitsu is there's constant strain on the discs and the joints.
01:40:51.000There's guys that just aren't going to make it, you know?
01:42:29.000His lymph nodes were leaking into the side of his body and he got to the point where it was like a water balloon.
01:42:35.000He could touch his body and he was in bed for like 10 or 11 days after the vaccine.
01:42:40.000So he's the first person that made me kind of think twice about the vaccine because he's obviously one of the best, a person who is in one of the greatest shapes possible, right?
01:47:57.000Derek Lewis, who's a legit one-punch knockout threat, and the technical acumen that he showed, the skill, the technique, the footwork, the movement, the understanding of distance, the ability to control everything that happened inside the octagon was spectacular.
01:49:52.000It's just like the UFC and Ngannou were at some sort of a weird impasse, so they decided to make an interim title, which brings up all sorts of ethical discussions about what is an interim title, when is it If the organization could just decide,
01:50:11.000oh, the negotiations aren't going so well, we're just going to have an interim title.
01:50:45.000You know, like, how much time do you give a guy before, you know, he defends his title?
01:50:49.000The difference in boxing is so different.
01:50:51.000Like, boxers go the long stretch, and boxers enter into negotiations and negotiate.
01:50:57.000Like, Caleb Plant and Canelo Alvarez, they've been Dancing back and forth as to whether or not they're supposed to fight and the negotiations fall apart and they come back together again and now they're supposedly in negotiations again for November.
01:51:20.000A star in and of itself, like the organization is a star and to be the UFC heavyweight champion is a huge thing, but ultimately you're a champion in the UFC, which is huge.
01:53:10.000Cyril Ghosn is the best moving heavyweight I've ever seen.
01:53:13.000I've never seen a heavyweight move like him.
01:53:15.000It's just his fucking understanding of distance and his use of feints and every time Derek tried to swing at him, he was nowhere to be found.
01:53:24.000He was whoop, just slid out and then he's right back in on him.
01:53:29.000Like he would get back out and then go right back in his face.
01:53:32.000That's like my favorite, probably my favorite part of mixed martial arts is people that move in interesting ways, move well in interesting ways.
01:53:39.000I was thinking, you know who Lionel Messi is by any chance?
01:53:43.000So the soccer player, he's my favorite.
01:53:47.000Talking about things that divide the populace with the vaccines, it's probably Messi versus Cristiano Ronaldo, who's the greatest player of all time or currently playing.
01:55:24.000The reasons why until like a month ago, people still said Messi might not be the greatest ever is because he's never taken his national team, Argentina, to a major, like a World Cup win or the Copa America, like the major international win.
01:55:40.000He's always, he's taken him to the final a bunch of times, but never won.
01:55:43.000And so that has to, that's like LeBron questions.
01:55:47.000How many times, if ever, did you take your team, especially when the team is not great, did you make them step up to win the championship?
01:55:55.000And until, so he won the South American Championship, which is a huge championship for the first time with Argentina last month, which solidified him as the greatest.
01:56:38.000Nah, well Anderson Silva was fantastic in his prime, no doubt about it.
01:56:43.000But Mighty Mouse, the only problem with Mighty Mouse is that he's in a weight class that's very small.
01:56:48.000There's not a lot of guys that weigh 125 pounds, so there's not the same talent pool that Anderson Silva dealt with.
01:56:54.000Anderson Silva dealt with much more danger in terms of one-punch strikers.
01:57:01.000But, you know, the argument could be made that Anderson Silva, when he was at the top, is the greatest of all time.
01:57:07.000And then the argument could be made that Mighty Mouse is the greatest of all time.
01:57:11.000Mighty Mouse just destroyed people and destroyed people in a way like they looked overwhelmed and confused, like they couldn't touch him.
01:57:19.000His movement and his ability to mix the wrestling and the striking and the submissions together flawlessly and seamlessly was incredible.
01:57:31.000I feel like fighters have these bursts of time that may last three years, five years, seven years, whatever it is, when they're able to maintain the championship-level RPMs.
01:57:45.000And you got to judge them inside that time.
01:57:47.000And it's very subjective, obviously, whether it's Anderson or whether it's Jon Jones or whether it's Khabib Nurmagomedov is a very, very good candidate because, in my opinion, Khabib is probably the best candidate because Khabib, not only did he not lose a fight,
01:58:39.000But Khabib ultimately won that fight and destroyed him.
01:58:41.000I mean, was pounding on him, was telling him, quit now, quit now, you know I deserve title shot, beating the shit out of him, and then put him in a Kimura and tapped him.
01:58:49.000But it's arguable that Khabib's the greatest of all time.
01:59:49.000It has to be in motion for you to be a Conor McGregor and for you to be a Conor McGregor that has the kind of balls to tear up Jose Aldo's picture and steal his belt and go on this press conference tour with him where you're going all over the world and you're talking crazy shit and climbing inside of Aldo's head to the point where the one moment where they close the octagon door and like,
02:02:22.000Did you see that thing with Ronaldo where they put a Coca-Cola in front of him and he pushed it aside and he picked up a bottle of water and said, Agua.
02:07:15.000I remember reading an article about it.
02:07:19.000They're planning on making sports betting legal in New York.
02:07:24.000When I type it in, it says the sports betting legal in New York.
02:07:26.000The only way to legally place a sports wager in New York is to go to one of the four full-service commercial upstate casinos operated by an upstate Indian nation and place an in-person bet.
02:09:46.000I think he was thinking about coming back.
02:09:48.000He's still got, oh sorry, which I should mention, so he has two years of NCAA, so Gable has a choice now, because I think he's interested in W, like he's interested into that.
02:10:02.000WWE? WWE. Yeah, he's also interested in the UFC. In the UFC, but then he can also go back to college and wait for the Olympics again, which is in only three years.
02:10:13.000So he can go back to school, dominate NCAA, get a couple titles if he can.
02:11:28.000If you want to be pure, let's be pure all the way.
02:11:31.000No advertisement, let's keep the whole thing pure, and make it so that NBC and whoever the fuck airs the Olympics, they're only doing it for the purity of the experience of competition.
02:11:42.000We will not make any money off the proceeds of any of this.
02:11:47.000And whatever money is generated at all, we'll donate to charity.
02:11:50.000So first of all, I came on the Joe Rogan Experience to pitch communism to the people.
02:13:04.000Scoring points, this is a discussion that I've had with people before.
02:13:08.000That style of karate, it's a very useful tool to know.
02:13:14.000There's guys like Raymond Daniels who've used that really effectively in kickboxing.
02:13:19.000There's guys like Michael Venom Page who uses it really effectively in MMA. There's an ability To leap in and catch you with things that most guys do not have.
02:13:31.000When you've got a guy who's elite at that, but then learns the other things, that's a giant bridge to cross that a lot of folks can't...
02:13:39.000They don't know what to do with a person like that.
02:13:42.000But if you had to choose, would you take, like, Sadulayev, the Russian tank, The gold medalist in freestyle wrestling or the gold medalist in karate?
02:13:53.000I've always said that wrestling is the cornerstone of mixed martial arts.
02:17:21.000And that's an interesting choice there.
02:17:23.000They all just won all of the world championships between the two of them.
02:17:28.000And Olympics, Kyle was in a different weight class, a higher weight class in the previous Olympics.
02:17:34.000So they both won gold in the previous one.
02:17:36.000It's so interesting, but they're both choosing to stay in wrestling.
02:17:39.000And it's like you could tell both of them that they went to MMA, they would just destroy.
02:17:44.000Well, Jordan Burrows is another example, right?
02:17:46.000He chose to stay in wrestling, and he's actually made a very good living in wrestling.
02:17:50.000You know, and one of the things is through Flow Grappling and through a lot of these other kind of streaming organizations, guys can make money.
02:18:34.000I mean, that's the reason I really came here.
02:18:37.000I mean, you're part of people that are creating an incredible place in Austin, but also the fact that Elon really believes that this will be the Silicon Valley.
02:18:46.000All the sort of pursuit of excellence without the...
02:19:42.000The wild people, the crazies, the dreamers, the people that really want to...
02:19:48.000Pursue excellence and in the full diversity of what that means, real diversity, the full spectrum of diversity, and chase big ideas, big dreams, change the world.
02:19:59.000Those are the people that are moving here, so it's super exciting.
02:20:01.000Well, the thing about Austin as opposed to New York City or Los Angeles is that an individual like Elon Musk can move there and then moving there after he does will be considered like following him.
02:20:49.000Maybe they have a little bit of jealousy towards a guy like Elon, or maybe they have some weird animosity towards him, or they don't like...
02:21:23.000He's got a lot of wild shit that he's doing simultaneously.
02:21:26.000So if you're a person who has a big ego and you fancy yourself as like a tech innovator of the highest order and a real wonder kind, and then you see Elon and he moved to Austin, you're like, well, fuck that, I'm staying here.
02:21:40.000Stay there with the needles in the human shape.
02:21:57.000And I'm not going to, just because the internet, like, it's the jealousy thing.
02:22:01.000People criticize you for being a fan, and there's a pressure to sort of be, like, not celebrate others, because that seems like a beta thing or something.
02:24:55.000And when you throw the water on the rocks, the fucking steam and the heat in there, it's much more uncomfortable.
02:25:02.000It's like physically, like tangibly hotter in this little barrel sauna, which makes sense because my other sauna is big and it takes a long time to heat up.
02:25:11.000This motherfucker heats up like full blast, gets to 185 degrees in 20 minutes.
02:26:20.000Actually, somebody who was talking about wrestling, somebody texted me, because I mentioned going on the show, and they said, make sure you push back and talk shit to Joe.
02:28:23.000But it was really interesting, the exchange between the two of you on the topic of walking away, doing one more movie and then walking away.
02:31:12.000The thing is, it's not just that he's coming out of the closet, I celebrate the fact that he's able to be his authentic self, but it's also the music is fun.
02:32:21.000I don't want to speak out of turn too much, but as far as I think, isn't there a bit of a problem with homophobia in the rap slash African American community that he's also fighting against?
02:32:33.000A little bit, but he does like duets with guys like Nas, OGs, like Nas and Lil Nas X did a duet.
02:33:37.000But I always wonder whether you'd be disappointed if you actually sit down with some of the great actors and talk to them for two hours, three hours, like if they were in the Joe Rogan experience.
02:41:23.000And still, at least from the Jordan Peterson experience, it seems like there's not good, well-understood signs of how to get off them properly.
02:42:28.000Not a lot of scientific thing, but just there's someone offering this and even says here that you have to keep taking the benzo through your Ibogaine treatment.
02:43:32.000But he said from all of us looking into it, let's put Jordan aside, that the most effective way to get off of benzos is unfortunately the...
02:44:51.000He's an important human being, so I hope he's with us.
02:44:54.000He's one of the most misrepresented people I've ever seen.
02:44:57.000When I see people represent him in a way that is completely inaccurate and caricature of who he really is, I've been stunned at people's representations of who he is.
02:45:39.000If you push back against the woke orthodoxy, the kickback is tremendous.
02:45:49.000But not many people are willing to stand, like, walk through the fire of that.
02:45:56.000It's the same thing with vaccines, the same with all these kind of things where there's the mainline story and to be a legitimate sort of...
02:46:04.000So he's a well-published psychologist, like, with a career to be able to be willing to stand in that fire.
02:46:16.000Especially when he was less known that takes a lot like most people are not willing to not brave enough to do that yeah major props to him no I'm a big fan of him as a human being you know not just as a public person a public intellectual a public person espousing ideas that are controversial but just him as a person like my time spent with him with no cameras on I like him a lot he's a really nice guy Yeah.
02:47:00.000It was just one more layer of oppression that they bestowed upon him.
02:47:07.000People want to say, you know, they'll see me and see, like, I talk kind of slow and look like I may be at least slightly mentally challenged.
02:47:29.000I still, one of the questions I have, because I'm scaling up training, like, I want to, in September, scale up the training like hard with Craig Jones, with Donahard Gordon, like five, six times a week, and if you're doing a little experiment, and then compete a lot in like October.
02:49:35.000There's like maybe something to be said for that.
02:49:38.000But there's also something to be said for pure obsession, like pure focus where your whole life is about this one thing that you're doing, you know?
02:49:58.000I mean, I don't want to psychoanalyze.
02:50:00.000No, I don't have any insider information about Donahar.
02:50:04.000But they were in New York and then Puerto Rico.
02:50:06.000When you have that singular obsession when you're in New York, there's still a release valve in the city.
02:50:13.000When you're all just alone together, there's a few camps in Jiu Jitsu and martial arts that have been like that where you're just in the middle of nowhere.
02:51:00.000Yeah, if you're listening to your body, if you're doing it correctly.
02:51:03.000If you don't, the thing about Jiu-Jitsu is your body will let you know if you don't, and you'll fall apart.
02:51:09.000One of the things that's heartbreaking about communicating with Hickson, because of course Hickson, if you don't know, you know, Hickson was on my podcast a week ago.
02:51:18.000And Hickson Gracie is widely considered the greatest Gracie of all time, one of the greatest jiu-jitsu practitioners who has ever lived, if not the greatest, and most certainly the champion of the most important family in the history of martial arts.
02:52:42.000I can do most of the things I want to do.
02:52:44.000I can train pretty hard, but I'm also 54. And there's a reality of the body.
02:52:49.000It's like there's only so much you can do.
02:52:51.000When I see Hickson, I see the future of most jiu-jitsu practitioners, you know?
02:52:57.000What do you, psychologically, how do you deal with that 54?
02:53:01.000Like, thinking about your future in Jiu Jitsu, given how much you love Jiu Jitsu, how much you love getting on the mat and training.
02:53:08.000Do you see yourself, like when you're 70, when you're 80, do you see yourself still getting on the mat, maybe playing around with some stuff?
02:53:37.000Jean-Jacques Machado is one of the things that I brought up in my conversation with Hickson.
02:53:40.000It's really amazing that Jean-Jacques, who is one of the greatest jiu-jitsu practitioners of all time, still rolls to this day because he's so smart.
02:53:54.000And Jean-Jacques is probably close to 50, if not 50. But he's very fit, very healthy, very flexible and loose.
02:54:23.000When you're in competition a lot, and you're in competition to tap younger guys and to dominate real explosive individuals, you run the risk of these injuries.
02:54:36.000And the big injuries are the spinal injuries, because all the other injuries you can fix.
02:54:41.000If you've got a joint injury, those can be fixed.
02:54:45.000Meniscus is bad, but the real bad shit is discs.
02:56:19.000I love that shit, but, like, sometimes they just want to know not the big principles of, like, of the system, but more, like, specific techniques.
02:56:27.000But I think having principles is, like, that's essential to understand.
02:56:33.000And Gordon's really good at explaining, I watched one with guard passing, his explanation of, like, just the, like, what is guard passing?
02:58:22.000What John has done and what Gordon and Nicky and Gary Tonin and Nicky Rod have done, they've created an amazing level where they're all feeding off each other, which is really weird that they're separating right now.
02:58:55.000Well, that's what we were talking about with fighters, like MMA fighters, that they can only maintain those RPMs for a certain number of years.
02:59:02.000The thing about what Gordon is doing right now is that Gordon is only 26. 25, 26?
02:59:49.000But they have put him on a protocol, and there's some ways to deal with his particular stomach ailment, to deal with biologics, BBC 157 and stem cells.
03:00:01.000There's some treatments that are effective, and he has had a big reaction to it.
03:00:08.000He's not 100%, but he's quite a bit better.
03:00:14.000Gordon was the best grappler in the world, the best grappler of all time, and he was dealing with a stomach issue that kept him from eating food, which is just fucking crazy.
03:01:44.000No, it's phenomenal for jiu-jitsu because bodyweight exercises in high repetition really mimic the kind of conditioning that you need for jiu-jitsu.
03:02:21.000It builds this muscle at the top of the quadriceps, like, where the knee hits.
03:02:26.000And I talked to a bunch of people about that, and they think that it's, like, one of the best exercises for stabilizing the knee.
03:02:34.000It's very similar to that knee over toes guy's idea.
03:02:38.000Like, the knee does go over the toes when you do Hindu squats.
03:02:43.000And I think this kind of movement feels like it makes you more functional for everyday life, like for going up the stairs, for doing stupid shit.
03:02:52.000I remember getting injured when I was lifting real heavy in my early 20s, like power, like real heavy weight.
03:02:59.000I remember getting really hurt just opening the window.
03:04:17.000But why do you say it as if there's some sort of repercussions?
03:04:21.000So, right now, I kind of decided, like, I'm not a professional musician, obviously, but, so, like, I have in my repertoire, I'm able to play a lot of Hendrix.
03:04:34.000So I've always wanted to play Hendrix here, but it always felt difficult.
03:05:51.000But to perform it, like, loose and fully in it, that requires, like, you have to first go actually play it live in front of people, like, relax.
03:06:02.000I mean, it's like performing jokes or something.
03:08:33.000There's certain liberties that he would take with notes.
03:08:38.000To me, Voodoo Child, to me, is like, if I'm tired and I play that song, like if I'm on a stair mill or something like that and I play that song, it's like fuel for the body.
03:09:32.000It's like you're always going to, everyone's going to know that even if you take it further, you took it further because the other guy had the baton first and he handed it to you.
03:15:04.000I feel like greatness is created at that edge.
03:15:06.000When you haven't quite figured it out, you're kind of too stupid to know better.
03:15:11.000Which is why Elon Musk is fascinating.
03:15:14.000He's getting up there and he's still doing stupid shit.
03:15:17.000He's still taking big risks and all that kind of stuff.
03:15:20.000Yeah, artists, particularly musical artists in general, they get to a certain point in time and they lose whatever, like rock and roll people, they lose whatever it means to be this creative force.
03:15:36.000In general, and it's not universal, but in general, musicians stop really creating great music as they get older.
03:15:45.000They might be able to recreate the great music of the past.
03:15:48.000If you go see the Beach Boys, they're not busting out new songs.
03:16:16.000Yeah, he still makes a lot of new stuff, but there's not a lot of iconic rock stars that people want and get excited about their new releases.
03:16:29.000In general, they're nostalgic for the stuff that they busted out.
03:17:40.000But you have a good sense of humility and the significance of humility.
03:17:47.000Humility is very, very important because it's the only thing that will save you when your ego gets overwhelmed.
03:17:54.000It's the saddest thing in the world when you see someone overwhelmed by their ego to the point where they want and expect a certain type of treatment of other people.
03:18:07.000I've tried as I've gotten more and more famous to be more appreciative and more humble.
03:19:06.000You're one of my favorite people to listen to and your podcast is excellent.
03:19:10.000You're one of the very best at removing yourself from a situation and interviewing people and trying to extract the most out of them and it's not easy.
03:20:13.000Even discussing self-imposed suffering and the fact that I do it is a little bit of an ego boost, because I'll let you know that I torture myself in a way, like physically torture myself.
03:20:25.000You know, like, oh, what are you, working out hard?
03:20:36.000And I think if you live a life without challenges, you're going to become a tyrant.
03:20:42.000Yeah, that's one of the reasons I really admire David Goggins is there's an element to his suffering that the fact that the camera is sometimes turned on is an accident.
03:21:38.000A little bit through the inklings of information that he just runs nonstop.
03:21:43.000Well, I see it because he's one of my best friends.
03:21:46.000But, you know, I wrote the foreword to his book, and one of the things that I wrote is that he's doing an art form.
03:21:55.000And it's an art form that very few people can participate in, and very few people are going to appreciate unless you participate in it.
03:22:03.000And it's the art form of the maximized life.
03:22:06.000It's the art form of the grind for the grind's sake.
03:22:11.000And if you can gaze into it and just...
03:22:17.000Separate yourself from your – that's one of the things that people want to do when they see a person like a Goggins or a Jocko or a Cam Haynes.
03:22:24.000They want to compare themselves and oftentimes they come up short.
03:22:30.000They're unfavorably comparing their life to this person and they realize that this person is more disciplined than me.
03:22:35.000This person is—they're doing things that I just—I'll fall short some days, and they don't fall short.
03:22:47.000I think it's like a—it's a wild— Form of art because it's the it's a conquest over the mind the conquest over laziness and procrastination and and That little that little voice in your head.
03:23:01.000It's like you don't have to get up today You don't have to do it today Not one of my favorite things that Goggins says you sometimes I stare at my shoes for a half hour before I put on those motherfuckers But I always do I think you've recently been posting about that.
03:23:21.000Very much that's the battle with that voice.
03:23:24.000I think he posted something about not even having a conversation with that voice.