In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, we talk to archaeologist Randall Carlson about the Younger Dryas impact theory, which is a theory about the disappearance of the ice sheets that covered much of North America in the late ice age. It s a theory that has been debated for a long time, and is still debated to this day. In this episode, we discuss the impact theory and what it means for our understanding of the end of the Ice Age and the impact it had on life on Earth. We also talk about some of the sites that have evidence of the impact, including Hall's Cave and the Canyon Lake Gorge, and how the impact may have changed the course of human history and the fate of the dinosaurs that lived there before the ice ages. Joe and Randall talk about the impact and how it may have affected the evolution of life on the planet. This episode is brought to you by the National Park Service and the National Museum of American Indians and the Natural History Museum of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Resources Mentioned in this episode: Joe's book, "The Ice Age: A Brief History of the Late Ice Age" The Ice Age, written by Randall Carlson, PhD Dr. Carl S. Carlson's book "The Younger Dryas Impact Theory," which is out now in paperback and available for pre-order on Amazon Prime and Blu-ray on Amazon, or you can get a free copy of it here. The book is available for purchase for only $99.99.00, plus shipping, shipping included shipping and handling, and shipping, and handling fees, plus a free of course, to be delivered to your local Best Fiends and your local bookshop. and your delivery man will be getting a copy of the book, too! by the mail! and you'll get an ad-free version of the podcast on the podcast, and it'll get all the features mentioned in the book on the show! in the podcast will also be available on the day of the show, plus all the usual goodies, including the book and e-mail address you get in the day after the podcast is available in the next week or your first week of the day, shipping address, and your first sign that you decide to subscribe to the podcast! Thank you for listening to Joe's blog post, and more! Thanks for listening and supporting the podcast and subscribe to it!
00:01:47.000So Hall's Cave was a repository, and we were going to go in it.
00:01:52.000It belongs to an elderly couple that's on private property, but then when the COVID hit, they got worried about letting people in there, so it's been postponed.
00:02:01.000Thomas Stafford was the lead archaeologist on the job, on the project, and he had agreed to set it up for us, but then they got, like I said, the elderly couple that owns the cave, they got cold feet, so...
00:02:14.000So is this because of the recent strains of COVID? Is this like...
00:02:24.000We were planning to go a year ago last summer.
00:02:28.000So it's been on hold, and I suspect that at some point we'll get to do it.
00:02:33.000But while I'm out here, we are going to check out a few things.
00:02:36.000Canyon Lake Gorge, which is down towards San Antonio, is a site that in 2002, there was a Heavy, heavy rain and Canyon Lake is a reservoir.
00:02:47.000It overflowed and it cut this canyon and reproduced all these features like recessional cataracts and plunge pools and all these kind of things that geologists assumed were kind of slow To form,
00:03:05.000but are very similar to some of the things that are on a much grander scale that we'll look at here today.
00:03:13.000But what it is, it's kind of almost forced a revision in thinking because basically they're seeing this duplication of these forms, although on a smaller scale, but formed in two days and not thousands of years.
00:03:24.000So for people that are not familiar with your work, I think we should probably give them a real quick refresher.
00:03:30.000When you're referring to the Younger Dryas, you're referring to the Younger Dryas impact theory.
00:03:35.000And this impact theory, you believe, probably ended the Ice Age, caused the extinction of many mammals and many species of life all over the Earth.
00:03:56.000The dating of it, the Younger Dryas itself is about a 1,300-year interval.
00:04:01.000So to put this in perspective, go back 16,000 to 20,000 years ago, we're in the middle of the late glacial maximum.
00:04:09.000When more than doubled the amount of glacial ice on the planet now.
00:04:13.000We had North America, half of North America is buried under an ice sheet bigger than the one that now covers the South Pole.
00:04:19.000So all of Canada, up to the Arctic Circle, northern United States, you know, New York, Detroit, Philadelphia, Twin Cities, Seattle, all of that area was completely buried under this massive ice sheet.
00:04:33.000Around 15,000 years ago, 14,500 to 15,000 years ago, the climate began to warm.
00:04:38.000And this is probably because the changing geometries between the Earth and the Sun has this, it's called the Milankovitch cycles, and it basically is just the geometric relation between the Earth and the Sun.
00:04:50.000The orbit, the tilt of the Earth's axis, and so on, brings about gradual warming and gradual cooling.
00:04:56.000So what has been documented now is that the gradual warming began between 14,500 and 15,000 years ago.
00:05:04.000And so the great ice sheets began to shrink back, and they lost maybe 10 to 15 percent of their maximum mass.
00:05:12.000And this is when that ice-free corridor opened up.
00:05:16.000Between the two, you had two big ice sheets that were covering North America.
00:05:36.000Ideas that North America was exclusively populated by the Clovis people coming across the Bering Land Bridge, which was exposed because of lowered sea levels, migrating down through Alaska and through that ice-free corridor down into un-glaciated North America,
00:05:53.000and then eventually all the way down to Tierra del Fuego within a thousand years.
00:06:01.000Now, at about 12,850 to 12,900 years ago, that process is suddenly interrupted by this massive spasm of cold, right, that basically undoes 2,500 years of warming,
00:06:19.000And now the planet is plunged back into full glacial cold, and it takes like 1,300 years for the planet to resume its upward arc of warming.
00:06:29.000So at the beginning of that is when the spike of mass extinctions took place, and that's also when the COVID culture in North America that had been very prolific— You mean Clovis?
00:07:27.000Now what's interesting about the Younger Dryas period is that it's almost bookmarked with two catastrophes.
00:07:36.000The catastrophe at 11,600 years ago is still kind of undefined.
00:07:41.000There's been no, to my knowledge, evidence of any kind of extraterrestrial impact.
00:07:46.000However, there was a massive pulse of melting that occurred.
00:07:51.000And so it's referred to as Meltwater Pulse 1B. Now there was a Meltwater Pulse 1A that is now dated at 14,600.
00:08:00.000And there's evidence now emerging that there was also a major melting event At the beginning of the Younger Dryas, but it was so quick before the planet jumped back into full glacial cold, it has kind of been overlooked.
00:08:14.000So anyways, what's interesting about Meltwater Pulse 1b, that's 11,600 years ago.
00:08:19.000Now that is now given as the definition between the Pleistocene, which was two and a half million years, which was differentiated from the previous Pliocene, because in the Pleistocene epoch,
00:08:35.000What characterizes this epoch is the planet started lurching back and forth between the glacial and interglacial ages, right?
00:08:44.000So at the end of the Pleistocene, we get into the Holocene.
00:08:48.000Holocene is now the onset of the Holocene as dated 11,600 years ago.
00:08:53.000And shortly within a millennia to two millennia after that is when we begin to see The rise of what eventually led to modern civilization.
00:09:34.000The first ChatalhöyĂ¼k and Jericho and other cities like that are showing up between 8,000 and 9,000 years ago.
00:09:41.000So basically, all the accoutrements of civilization that eventually led to, you know, what we think of as modern history, 4,500 to 5,000 years ago, all sort of got launched in this post- Younger Dryas epoch,
00:10:26.000So one of the mysteries that actually began to be noticed in the early 70s was what is called the energy paradox.
00:10:34.000Now, with the advent of radiocarbon dating in the 1950s, what happened is you accumulated a couple of decades of radiocarbon dating.
00:10:44.000After a couple of decades, the geologists and the climatologists and so on, they're looking at that data and they're going, wait a second, our old models of glacial, the onset of a glaciation, glacial period, the termination of glacial period,
00:11:00.000were tens of thousands of years, 50, 60, 70,000 years.
00:11:05.000Radiocarbon dating is now showing it happened way, way faster than that.
00:11:08.000For example, radiocarbon dating showed that In central area of Canada, where it was assumed that there had been a mile, a mile and a half of ice, forests were growing like 30,000, 35,000 years ago.
00:11:22.000Well, clearly there was no ice there when the forests are growing there, right?
00:11:25.000The other thing was The rapidity with which the whole thing came to an end.
00:11:30.000Rather than 15, 20, 25,000 years, it was more like 3, 4, 5,000 years.
00:11:36.000So this is what introduced the concept of the energy paradox.
00:11:39.000Like, where the hell did all the energy come from to melt that much ice?
00:11:43.000And so there was a group of scientists that held a conference in 1973. Didn't resolve it.
00:11:50.000Held another conference in 1975. Still didn't resolve it.
00:11:54.000What they were looking at, they go, okay, well, what is the greatest concentration of available thermal energy on the planet today to melt ice?
00:12:03.000So they said, well, it looks like it's equatorial regions over equatorial oceans.
00:12:09.000Okay, so if we applied that much thermal energy to these ice sheets, how long would it take to melt?
00:12:15.00020,000 to 25,000 years to completely melt away.
00:12:18.000So that was the energy paradox and it really has not been resolved to this day.
00:12:24.000And see, the assumption was that the energy would have applied in a uniform manner from the beginning of the start of the deglaciation to the end of the deglaciation.
00:12:57.000And of course then I encountered that, I mean I guess, you know, going way back in the late 70s, early 80s when I first got obsessed with the catastrophic history of this planet and geology and all of that.
00:13:19.000You know, there's no intrinsic source of that much heat to melt the ice that quick.
00:13:23.000So I was very gratified when in 2007 the paper came out proposing that there had been an impact at the Younger Dryas, triggering the Younger Dryas.
00:13:33.000You know, we talked about that with Graham on here.
00:13:36.000And that's actually what inspired Graham to come back To his original idea that he had proposed in Fingerprints of the Gods back in 95 or 96 was the two things, the discovery of Gobekli Tepe, which, you know, is back 11,500 years old,
00:13:53.000And the evidence that there had been this cometary impact.
00:13:57.000So in his Fingerprints of the Gods, he was still thinking—he had documented a tremendous amount of evidence for catastrophe.
00:14:08.000But what he didn't really – wasn't thinking, he was thinking more in terms of the scenario or the models of Charles Hapgood who was thinking in terms of pole shift.
00:14:16.000Well, that idea kind of fell by the wayside because it wasn't making sense from the geophysical standpoint and a lot of reasons.
00:14:24.000But then when 2007 came along and this paper came out, Graham was pretty much electrified when he saw that and said, well, there's the catastrophe.
00:14:34.000It was an impact and why didn't I think of that?
00:15:40.000You'll have microspherals, which form, when you have a hypervelocity impact, you know, you've got to think you're, you know, an object coming in closing velocity at 10 to 20 times the muzzle velocity of a high-powered rifle.
00:15:55.000It's coming in, it slams into the earth, It has a whole suite of consequences, one of which a lot of the material that's directly in the epicenter gets vaporized.
00:16:06.000That vapor goes up into the stratosphere, it begins to circulate, as it cools it drops back to Earth, and it will form both microspherals and microtectites.
00:16:17.000And microtectites are small little aerodynamically shaped forms.
00:16:23.000They're called microtectites because you really only see them under a microscope.
00:16:47.000Other platinum group metals now associated with the Younger Dryas, they found iridium spikes, osmium spikes, and platinum spikes, which are all part of the platinum group metals, all of which are pretty much abundant in cosmic things like asteroids, right?
00:17:02.000So you had the finding of that, you know, I think in the Greenland ice cores, platinum showed up in iridium.
00:17:33.000So, you know, the critics came out, savaged it.
00:17:37.000You know, the first group, I think, was 17 scientists that signed off on that paper, 2007. Actually, they formed a group called the Comet Research Team, organized by George Howard, who runs the Cosmic Tusk website.
00:18:03.000So he does the Cosmic Tusk website and he helped to organize this Comet Research Team.
00:18:08.000Now the Comet Research Team has grown to over 50 members since 2007. And I have been out in the field a couple of times with some members of the group, Chris Moore for example, who originally was one of the skeptics.
00:18:25.000So we were out, we can circle back to this too, the Carolina Bays, which are these Unique elliptical features on the southeastern coastal plain of the United States.
00:18:54.000So Chris Moore, you know, I had a chance to have extensive conversations with him, and he basically said, well, yeah, I originally came on as a skeptic.
00:19:02.000I was going to debunk this, and then I began seeing the evidence, and now I'm a believer.
00:19:11.000It seems like it's the thing that makes the most sense when you look at all the physical evidence, when you look at how quickly things changed.
00:19:19.000I did not know that the amount of melting would have taken that long, though.
00:19:36.000Fall comes, things get cold again, melting stops, and then you have more ice accumulation because it's now snowing during the winter.
00:19:44.000So really, if you say 20,000 years or 15,000 years to melt, you've got to actually cut that in half or less because you're only going to have really, especially in the northern latitudes, you're going to only have probably three or four months out of each year where actually the ice diminishes in mass.
00:20:03.000So that's one reason why it'll – it's not like a continuous process.
00:20:08.000But yeah, I think I've got – let's see if I've got it right here.
00:20:14.000But yeah, so that was the thing when I discovered that in the late 70s is when I started thinking, okay, so something unusual happened that we don't really have an explanation for.
00:20:26.000Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Didn't you come up with the idea why you were on acid?
00:21:57.000So this is the first thing they noticed, that the rate of recession, you would assume that it's going to be faster at the southern margin, right, and much slower, because the northern margin is up by the Arctic Circle, right?
00:22:11.000What they saw, that it varied little between the northwest and southern margins.
00:22:18.000So then the second thing was of primary concern is the energy balance at the margin of the ice sheet required to promote the rapid late Wisconsin retreat.
00:22:31.000The growth and development of the Laurentide Ice Sheet Complex is still an enigma.
00:22:35.000That was in 73. It's still an enigma in 2002, which is why I find it so interesting, is because there are mysteries out there, and I love a good mystery.
00:22:48.000Unexplained is the growth of the ice cap and its gathering grounds of Baffin Island.
00:22:52.000So they're saying we don't even know how it started.
00:22:54.000When you said 2002, did you mean 2022?
00:23:15.000The average annual rate of marginal retreat of the Laurentide Ice Sheet calculated from the reduction area was 260 meters per year, which is 853 feet.
00:23:24.000So that means over the whole period of disappearance of the ice, it's on average 853 feet.
00:23:29.000Every year, the ice is receding, right?
00:23:33.000And this high figure immediately raises the question of what energy sources are available to cause such a rapid retreat.
00:23:40.000A significant aspect of the Laurentide deglacial history is the high energy inputs required.
00:23:45.000Which, you know, that was what came up in the 1970s.
00:23:48.000They still haven't, yeah, the high energy inputs.
00:24:16.000When it comes down to rates of ice retreat in meters per year for the northwest, southwest, south, and northeast sectors of the Laurentide Ice Sheet, and what they discovered was the rate of retreat up on the northern section was just as fast as the southern.
00:24:46.000Other than I've seen several attempts to try to explain it through gradualistic processes, but I think that it's been one of those things that has – it's so bizarre that almost like Let's just stay away from that for the time being.
00:24:59.000It's interesting that there's resistance to it because we know that there are asteroid impacts and comet impacts.
00:25:23.000And, you know, Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe, they theorized way back, I think, in the 70s that there was an extraterrestrial cause to ice ages, that the planet might get dusted with extraterrestrial, fine, including nanodiamonds that are so small.
00:25:44.000That maybe was not accepted back in the 70s just because it's pretty much outside.
00:25:50.000See, they were still looking for what the Milankovitch, what I was mentioning earlier, the changing geometry of the Earth to the Sun.
00:25:57.000The problem with that, though, is the rates.
00:25:59.000You know, those are slow, long, very gradualistic.
00:26:04.000What we're seeing now is stuff is like happening like that.
00:26:07.000How quick are we talking about when talking about this recession of the ice caps from the time where there's a mile-high sheet of ice to what we see?
00:26:18.000But within there, see, you can say 5,000 years and you might think of a uniform process.
00:26:23.000It's diminishing in mass uniformly each year, but that's not how it happened.
00:26:29.000Because even during the Younger Dryas, now the evidence suggests that that More or less gradualistic shrinking was interrupted, and then you had a regrowth of the ice sheet.
00:27:11.000In fact, in one of our conversations we had, it was...
00:27:16.000William Napier, who's a British astronomer, commented that we had—he was pleased that we had talked about it.
00:27:23.000And I mentioned that Victor Klube and William Napier and several of these others that were sort of—called them neo-catastrophists, if you will.
00:27:32.000And they really began proposing in the late 70s and early 80s things like, I say, you know, impacts may be responsible for a lot of things.
00:27:42.000They may be responsible for increased amounts of volcanic eruptions because, you know, hypervelocity impact can be very damaging.
00:27:51.000You know, the analogy that I like to use if you have like a.38 caliber bullet, right?
00:27:57.000And I was to throw that at you even as hard as I could and it hit you.
00:28:12.000Now, you take a half-mile space rock, Accelerate it by a factor of 10 beyond that and slam it into the earth, yeah, it's going to have consequences that could take, you know, thousands of years actually to play out.
00:28:25.000Is there an estimate of how many impacts there were?
00:28:32.000I think there was probably in the range of about 10 impacts.
00:28:35.000So 10 over the course of a few thousand years?
00:28:38.000Yes, although they were probably concentrated.
00:28:40.000I think that you had a concentrated series of impacts right around the beginning of the Younger Dryas because that's where the proxies are found.
00:28:48.000We still don't have an explanation for the end of the Younger Dryas.
00:28:54.000Something interesting though, it's one of these coincidences that I should bring up.
00:29:01.000Maybe the first meeting we had, we talked about Plato and the story of Atlantis.
00:29:08.000And a lot of – I noticed some of the negative comments were like, oh, I heard them mention Atlantis.
00:29:14.000So I just immediately turned it off because that's BS, you know.
00:29:19.000Whether Atlantis really existed or not, that's a whole other interesting question.
00:29:24.000And as a matter of fact, I just a few weeks ago did a part one of a six-part series, a live stream, where I'm like line by line dissecting what Plato actually said, going through four or five different translations,
00:29:40.000going back to some of the original Greek language that he used.
00:29:43.000But the thing that really initially—I wasn't that interested in the Atlantis thing.
00:29:48.000Until I realized that he's—if you go into his dialogue, Timaeus, just before he begins the story of Atlantis, he prefaces it by referencing the myth of Phaeton.
00:30:05.000And Phaeton being the son of Helios who tried to drive his father's chariot in the path of the sun and completely failed.
00:30:12.000And the chariot deviated off the path of the sun and it declined or deviated down to the earth and it set the world on fire.
00:30:21.000Now, in the story Of Atlantis, Solon, is hearing this story from these elderly Egyptian priests who say that they have preserved that story in their sacred registers for 9,000 years.
00:31:24.000You get around the time of the Younger Dryas impacts.
00:31:25.000The end of the Younger Dryas, Meltwater Pulse 1B. So you have a rapid rise, what John Shaw, Canadian geologist, the late John Shaw, called CRE, which is Catastrophic Rise Event.
00:31:42.000So there was a catastrophic rise event at 11,600 years ago.
00:31:47.000Plato gives that date based on the chronology from Solon down through Drapidus, through Critias the Elder, through Critias the Younger, then finally to Socrates and Plato.
00:32:03.000I'm not quite so ready to dismiss things like that as coincidence, because it's pretty amazing that he puts the demise of Atlantis, that it subsides beneath the ocean as a result of an earthquake and a rapid rise of sea level,
00:32:20.000and there's Meltwater Pulse 1b, Right there.
00:33:09.000I first discovered that maybe 20 years ago because it was – when it was first discovered because of NASA photography, they were looking at it and thinking this might be a multi-ringed impact structure.
00:33:22.000So I thought, oh, add this to the ever-growing list of impact structures.
00:33:26.000However, subsequent research showed that it was pretty much natural and I think Yeah, here we go right here.
00:33:38.000So this is, since you brought it up and asked about it, you can see here there's a magma body beneath the structure.
00:33:55.000Yeah, an external basaltic ring dike is displaced by a north-northeast-south-southwest fault system in the northeastern part of the structure and is cross-cut by carbon-type dikes.
00:34:07.000So you can see there's this whole magma chamber beneath the thing.
00:34:15.000And so what that would indicate was that this is probably the remnants of a volcanic eruption, like some sort of a caldera, like the same way that we have Yellowstone when they found that from space?
00:34:26.000It was probably pressure from below causing an up-doming, right?
00:34:30.000Now, you've got multiple layers Like this.
00:34:34.000Now you picture you've got a circular up-doming.
00:38:48.000And she went on and did a—she does these, like, 20-minute, 30-minute little vignettes of things that she's really interested in, having to do a lot with, you know, ancient cultures, all the kind of things that, you know, Graham Hancock is—you know,
00:40:17.000Let's look at the geography, the oceanography, the astronomy, and see if it lines up, if it matches up.
00:40:24.000And so I think there's one place that pretty much is not all the details, but when you look at all of the areas around the planet that have been proposed for Atlantis, I think there's one place that fits the majority of his details, and that's the sunken Azores Plateau.
00:40:41.000And I say sunken because we know it's sunken, and it's right along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
00:40:46.000In fact, since we're on this subject, and I wasn't even thinking we'd get on this subject, there's the Azores Plateau right there.
00:40:54.000It straddles a triple plate junction, which you have the European plate, the African plate, and the North American plate here.
00:41:01.000Trevor Burrus It's up near Nova Scotia?
00:41:38.000I was afraid you were going to ask that, but we can look very quickly, I guess, like give you the five-minute version, which is that There is evidence that there was a massive subsidence along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
00:41:54.000We actually talked about this a little bit and I think in our very first discussion we had, which was what?
00:42:09.000Geophysics shows that there's horizontal movement, lateral movement of the Earth's crust Because of continental drift, but there's also vertical movement.
00:42:20.000And that is the result of isostatic compensation.
00:42:25.000That's called, isostasy is the vertical movement of the Earth's crust.
00:42:28.000I can show you, I should have a slide right here that will help to really illustrate what it is.
00:43:53.000Now, you look, the thinnest crust on the Earth is the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
00:43:57.000And if you look at it, you'll see that there are transform faults, which should show up.
00:44:07.000Right here, the transform faults are these vertical fault lines That you would say orthogonal or right angles to the ridge itself.
00:44:18.000Here you can see very clearly the triple plate junction and how the Azores plateau.
00:44:24.000Okay, well, since the 1940s, the first expedition in 1948, when they started doing dredge samples from the floor of the Atlantic Ocean, which coincidentally, the name of the ship was the Atlantis.
00:44:40.000They dredge core samples, and they pull up the core samples from two miles down, a mile to two miles down, and they look at those core samples, and what you had was, for example, shallow water creatures living.
00:45:50.000When you see glacial eustatic, That means the rise and fall of the sea level as a result of glacier growth or melting.
00:45:59.000And it says here, sea level fluctuations have received only minor attention in connection with such problems as ocean floor spreading.
00:46:07.000The purpose of this report is to point out that late Pleistocene sea level data suggests that the ocean basins have responded isostatically and by a significant amount, particularly concentrated along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
00:46:26.000So, I mean, I've got so much here, I'm just going to grab a couple of these things here.
00:46:31.000So they dug up these cobbles, which are – the cobbles are So a cobble is basically a stone or anything that's lithified that's roughly between a pebble and a boulder.
00:46:49.000A boulder, when you get I think to 11 inches about the size of a volleyball, now you're in the realm of boulders.
00:46:55.000A cobble is in between pebbles and boulders.
00:47:04.000So they say here, the Atlantis cruiser and Great Meteor sea mounts rise from a broad ridge or plateau which extends from the mid-Atlantic ridge, blah, blah, blah.
00:47:13.000So about a ton of flat pteropod limestone cobbles was dredged from the summit area of one of these sunken, what they're calling the sea mounts.
00:47:24.000And a sea mount is like a flat-topped mountain.
00:47:37.000One of the cobbles gave an apparent radiocarbon age of 12,000 years, plus or minus 900 years.
00:47:44.000The state of lithification, how much it is turned into rock, of the limestone suggests that it may have been lithified under sub-aerial conditions.
00:48:17.000But yeah, basically—now this doesn't prove that there was any civilization there, but we can make a very strong case that a large section of the Azores Plateau was above sea level during the late glacial maximum.
00:48:31.000Does it coincide with Plato's account of trade and of travel and of the way— Well, we have no way of knowing.
00:48:39.000See, now there we have to make a leap of faith, which is this.
00:48:43.000If—and if we look right here, you'll see— You can see it very clearly, and you can see the Straits of Gibraltar here, which was anciently known as the Pillars of Heracles.
00:48:55.000And you come here to a group of islands, and then you get to the Azores Plateau.
00:49:03.000And here, these down here are those seamounts, those truncated seamounts.
00:49:07.000So, really, all you have to do—here's the leap of faith you have to make.
00:49:12.000You have to go—now, we don't I don't get into anything like flying spaceships or crystal ray guns or anything like that.
00:49:23.000What he's describing is a maritime culture that had navigational abilities, something along the lines of the Minoan or the Phoenician culture maybe.
00:49:33.000So now, all we have to do, really, is assume this, which to me is not so pseudoscientific that we couldn't even consider it, which is that somebody, some group in the Ice Age had enough navigational skills to sail from Europe to islands right here.
00:49:52.000And what would be the reason why they would go there?
00:49:55.000Like, what was so exceptional, supposedly, about Atlantis?
00:50:18.000This is, if you go right here, let's see, the position of the Gulf Stream during Quaternary Glaciations.
00:50:24.000In the present-day North Atlantic Ocean, the boundary between the subtropical and subpolar gyres runs southwest to northeast, from Hatteras to the Northern Sea.
00:50:36.000In contrast, during the last glacial maximum approximately 18,000 years ago, the gyre boundary and associated currents were more zonal and located further to the south.
00:50:45.000So, here's a map showing Basically what you would have had.
00:50:49.000So this is the Gulf Stream, so it's bringing up the warm equatorial waters and wrapping it right around the Azores.
00:50:57.000So if you were going to try to, you know, theorize or hypothesize an ideal climate during the Ice Age, there it is right there.
00:52:17.000And is there any sort of plan to do an excavation or some sort of an expedition where they go underwater and look at some of that stuff and try to find some physical elements?
00:52:29.000Not yet, but I was thinking, Joe, that you and I would see what...
00:53:12.000And a lot of what I'm documenting here is how catastrophic some of these events were.
00:53:18.000I mean you would have had massive tsunamis that would have affected everything.
00:53:24.000And like Plato says, Atlantis subsided beneath the waves because of a great earthquake.
00:53:32.000And we can actually show now that That there has evidence of massive traumatic seismic events along the mid-Atlantic ridge coincident with the rapid rise of sea level.
00:54:00.000My guess is that whether it's to be taken literally or not, … Plato's description of the infrastructure.
00:54:08.000I would think that the infrastructure, the multi-ringed, if that was real and not just metaphorical, that that's kind of what you would look for.
00:54:18.000In other words, I mean we do know that these ancient peoples You know, just from historical times where—and this is what Graham documents from all over the world.
00:54:27.000These people had extraordinary engineering skill.
00:54:30.000The ability to, you know, organize on a huge scale, you know, quarry 50, 100, 200 ton and larger stones, move them around with impunity.
00:55:13.000And, hey, does it make sense that you've got these kinds of undertakings, you know, By people that were just a generation or two before subsistence farmers or hunter-gatherers?
00:55:34.000It's also interesting how some parts of the world were so sophisticated in relationship to other parts of the world.
00:55:42.000Whereas some parts of Europe weren't that sophisticated at all, Egypt was thriving in making construction on a scale that boggles the mind today.
00:55:53.000Trevor Burrus And we've seen even in recent times advanced technological cultures living side by side with basically Stone Age cultures.
00:56:00.000And if this planet was to be subjected to some of the kinds of events like the Younger Dryas event, There would be really no trace in 10,000 years of our presence here other than the Stone Age material.
00:57:41.000Tambora, plus several other unknown volcanoes erupted within about a five-year span.
00:57:48.000Tambora was the big one, Indonesia, and it It disgorged huge amounts of ash and fine sediment into the atmosphere, which circled the globe and basically the summer of 18—this was in 1815—the following summer,
00:58:18.000And this has been referred to as the last great subsistence crisis of Western civilization because there was famine because you had agricultural failures.
00:58:30.000So you have this thing that you can begin to track now.
00:58:35.000Where you have primarily cold that's brought about by, I think, primarily volcanism is going to be the main instigator of this, but also I think hypervelocity impacts will also do.
00:58:50.000And we'll pull up some data here shortly that shows that hypervelocity impacts are way, way more common than was even assumed a decade, two decades, certainly a generation ago.
00:59:03.000That these things are—we've actually been rather lucky in the last few centuries that we've not had Any major impacts.
00:59:10.000Tunguska of 1908 is considered the most recent great impact, and we can talk about that in a minute.
00:59:27.000That was one that erroneously they associated with Tesla for some reason.
00:59:31.000They thought that Tesla was doing something wacky.
00:59:34.000Yeah, well, that's the tinfoil hat brigade.
00:59:36.000The evidence to me suggests very strongly that it was a piece of the torrid meteor stream, which was a byproduct of disintegration of comet Anki, which was in turn—and this gets us back to the British neocatastrophists.
00:59:50.000Is Anki named after the Sumerian Anki?
01:00:01.000E-N-C-K-E as opposed to E-N-K-I. But coincidence though, Anki.
01:00:08.000Anyways, so Comet Anki was probably part of a much bigger system and it was probably Earth's encounter with the tarred meteor stream that triggered the Younger Dryas impacts.
01:00:21.000That's kind of a lot of the pieces are sort of fitting together now.
01:00:24.000And the Torrid Meteor Stream was a much more prolific meteor stream in the past than it is now.
01:00:30.000The Earth crosses the Torrid Meteor Stream twice each year.
01:00:35.000Peaks late October, early November when the stream, if you got a picture, I actually have a graphic I can pull up in a minute, but you picture this stream circling the Sun and going out to Jupiter and then Circling back,
01:00:51.000coming around the Sun, and it's laying into the plane of the ecliptic, Earth's orbit crosses that stream twice.
01:00:58.000So it crosses the stream when the stuff is coming in from out by Jupiter, and that's around Halloween.
01:01:06.000In fact, they've been called the Halloween meteors.
01:01:09.000Circle around the Sun, and the second time the Earth crosses each year is late June, early July.
01:01:16.000But now, that stream is coming right from the direction of the sun.
01:01:20.000So that makes it largely invisible, right?
01:01:23.000Because you're looking right almost into the sun, see?
01:01:26.000Now, when you look at the Tunguska event, It was June 30th, peak of the torrid meteor stream.
01:01:32.000If you look at its position in the sky, where it came from, it was perfectly positioned to be part of that torrid meteor stream.
01:01:41.000So it was probably, most likely, nobody's proven it, but the circumstantial case is very strong that it was a part of that torrid meteor stream.
01:01:50.000And the torrid meteor stream right now, the radium, the place in space where that The meteors appear to be emanating.
01:01:58.000It's almost targeted right on the Pleiades, which is the shoulder of the bull, the constellation of the bull, Taurus.
01:02:06.000And there's a whole bunch of really interesting mythology associated with that that we could dive into.
01:02:14.000Particularly like, for example, have you ever heard of Mithraism?
01:02:18.000Mithraism was the, like, first century AD, was the primary competitor to Christianity throughout the whole Roman Empire.
01:02:26.000And Christianity won out for a variety of reasons, but Mithraism was loaded with some really potent symbolism.
01:02:33.000And one of the things is that during the Mithraic ceremonies or rituals was called the toroctony, the slaying of the celestial bull.
01:02:43.000And when you look at these images, they would go underground, and they would have a vault-shaped, like, temple with stars painted on the ceiling.
01:02:53.000And at the end of that, they would have this carving of Mithras stabbing his sword into the—slaying the bull, the celestial bull—stabbing his sword into the shoulder of the bull, and the blood flowing out And if you superimpose the constellation of the Taurus in the classical sense,
01:03:18.000the shoulder of the bull is the Pleiades.
01:03:21.000I look at that and I go, I think what they're trying to symbolize here is that On a yearly basis, they would see this meteor stream pouring out of the shoulder of the bull.
01:03:33.000And I could certainly pull up some stuff like that to look at.
01:03:37.000I thought really quickly, since before we leave the Atlantis thing, A couple of the things there is.
01:03:45.000So now Solon is in Egypt, Sias, Egypt.
01:03:48.000He's talking to the ancient priests, right?
01:03:51.000And he says, thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said, O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are but children.
01:03:59.000And there is never an old man who is a Hellene.
01:04:01.000Solon, hearing this, said, what do you mean?
01:04:31.000There is a story which even you, even you Helenes who don't know shit, you know, you're like children with your knowledge, there's a story which even you have preserved, that once upon a time, Phaeton, the son of Helios, yoked to steeds of his father's chariot because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father,
01:04:50.000burned up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt.
01:05:00.000But really signifies a declination of the bodies moving around the earth and in the heavens, and a great conflagration of things, all things upon the earth recurring at long intervals of time.
01:05:13.000So he's saying right there, he's saying, okay, this has a form of a myth, but it's not really a myth.
01:05:18.000Behind the myth is something real, and it's The bodies circulating in the heavens, they decline or they descend to earth and they set the earth on fire.
01:05:26.000So he's describing right there, you see, this whole phenomenon and making it clear that there's more dimensions to what we think of as myths than just some mere fanciful superstitious, you know, concoction to try to explain the unknown,
01:05:43.000that there really is something going on behind there.
01:05:49.000It's really fascinating, too, when he's talking about how there's no old science and that everyone is young.
01:05:56.000It's really interesting when you think about someone from that long ago trying to make an account of what had happened to the Earth with a relatively simplistic view,
01:06:12.000a relatively simplistic understanding of the sky, of asteroids, of Volcanoes, of all these different things.
01:06:58.000She was the one who coined the term geomythology and said, you know what, we really need to be taking a closer look at some of the myths of old because they actually may contain really valid information about things that happened in the past.
01:07:14.000And, of course, since then, yeah, it's emerged into like a whole discipline in itself, looking at stories like the one we just looked at, Phaeton.
01:07:22.000It's a story about a great meteor or comet or asteroid something, you know, causing destruction on the earth.
01:07:30.000And Plato was saying, this is not just a myth.
01:07:40.000And then he goes on to say, if any action which is noble or great or in any other way remarkable has taken place, all that has been written down of old and is preserved in our temples.
01:07:51.000Whereas you and other nations are just being provided with letters and other requisites of civilized life, and then, at the usual period, the stream from heaven descends like a pestilence.
01:08:04.000And I find the use of that term stream is interesting because we're talking about a meteor stream.
01:08:31.000But the ideas, the models that have evolved are not just a single event.
01:08:36.000But multiple events, almost like, again, back to the British neocatastrophists, the idea of sort of an impact epoch, which has to do with meteor streams will precess.
01:09:53.000Think of a meteor stream and in that meteor stream there are pockets where the material is denser and other places where it's spread out much finer.
01:10:03.000And there will be times of the year or times within, say, a millennia Where you may have the Earth intersecting that meteor stream in a much more denser part than other centuries.
01:10:17.000During that period, you're going to have an increased probability of something happening.
01:10:22.000And I think this is the model that's emerging now.
01:10:26.000That we're realizing that the structure of space in Earth's vicinity is a whole lot more complex than we I'd previously even imagined a generation ago.
01:10:36.000It completely makes sense, but it is horrific to think that the history of the human race and its survival is dependent upon, in a lot of ways, luck.
01:12:11.000Earth will just pass Earth at a distance of a half a million miles.
01:12:14.000So that's twice the distance to the moon.
01:12:16.000Had it been on a collision course, it would have created one of the worst disasters in human history, said Steven Pravdo, the NEAT project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
01:12:32.000You know, an asteroid large enough to have flattened the city, buzzed Earth earlier this month, and was not seen until after it flew harmlessly by.
01:13:02.000And then the same year, June 14th, asteroid 2002 MN gives Earth its closest shave in years.
01:13:09.000An asteroid the size of a football pitch, well, that would be, you know, 100 yards in diameter, which is quite a bit bigger than the Tunguska.
01:14:37.000So you can see, I'll just keep going here.
01:14:41.000Well, for folks that are just listening, he's highlighting article after article after article, headline after headline, asteroid just buzzed Earth, came closer to the moon, and then here we go in 2013. Yeah.
01:15:42.000And now we're just looking at when we could record it, when they can track it and measure it, which is within the last hundred years or so.
01:15:52.000So with this taken into consideration, and then you go back, you know, 11,000, 12,000 plus years, the amount of times that this has happened has probably been just off the charts.
01:17:22.000Oh, there's no doubt something is headed our way right now.
01:17:26.000I mean, yeah, because, see, these things, you've got to bear in mind, these things are on orbits.
01:17:31.000And those orbits, you can track those orbits.
01:17:35.000And anything that's going to hit us in the future is on a trajectory right now that if we could discover it, track it, we'd go, okay, this thing's going to hit us in 2029, or whatever the case may be.
01:17:56.0002,000 feet wide whiz past our planet tomorrow and this is 2019. Yeah.
01:18:03.000NASA admits, we're not going to know when a space rock flies at Earth.
01:18:09.000There's a problem also with the gravity of the sun, correct?
01:18:13.000Like, they don't quite see things that are headed our way just because of the mass of the sun, the way it affects?
01:18:18.000Yeah, and what we're talking about with the Tunguska is that, you know, if stuff is coming, what you would call the perihelion passage, where it's passed closest to the sun, and now it's coming from around the sun, yeah, you'd have to basically look into the sun to see it.
01:19:26.000January 11th, an asteroid estimated to be a kilometer wide will pass Earth on January 18th.
01:19:34.000It will pass within 1.2 million miles of our planet.
01:19:38.000Which is far enough that we're completely safe.
01:19:41.000But see, in aggregate of all of this, what we're seeing is that unlike our conceptions of near-Earth space a couple of generations ago, we realize that there's all kinds of cosmic beasts that live in the space that we inhabit.
01:19:56.000Yeah, because that 1.2 million miles is far, but it's not if you think about how vast space is.
01:20:14.000And then you look at the difference between 1980, where we had very little understanding of this, and 2022. Well, this goes to 2020, I guess?
01:21:01.000And there's companies already forming around this idea.
01:21:05.000I wouldn't be surprised if Elon is thinking along these lines.
01:21:09.000When you're thinking about something that's going 60,000 miles an hour and it's as big as, you know, multiple football fields, how prepared are we to even deflect something like that?
01:21:52.000So, you know, if we had a dusting, a cosmic winter, a volcanic winter, I mean, that shut down agriculture for a year or two, half the population of the earth is going to be dead within the next year.
01:22:27.000Megafauna is over 44 kilograms body weight, or about 100 pounds, right?
01:22:34.000The planet lost about half of all megafaunal species during that Younger Dryas.
01:22:41.000Now there was already animals disappearing leading up to it because I think it could be attributed to whatever happened at 14,600 years ago where I talked about earlier Meltwater Pulse 1A, right?
01:22:54.000That's when the shit really started to seem like it started coming down.
01:22:59.000And then it peaked Younger Dryas, 12,850.
01:23:04.000And then we had the impact winter for 1300 years and at the end of that, it wasn't a gradual warming, it was a catastrophic warming.
01:23:12.000And by that time, I think whatever species had managed to survive some of the earlier events may have succumbed at that point.
01:23:21.000You know, the controversy has come down to, was it nature?
01:23:25.000I think it was all of that, but I think hunters was probably a minor contributor to it, because for one thing, it now appears that the human population took a major crash at the same time.
01:23:38.000Like, we see that there's evidence that the Clovis culture in North America pretty much completely disappeared right at that boundary.
01:23:45.000Well, they weren't the only ones around the planet.
01:23:48.000Now, if you go and you look at some of the archaeological evidence, one of the things you see over and over again is, well, there was this cultural group in Japan or wherever, I just read a paper on that recently, and apparently there was some kind of social disruption and they got up and they migrated and moved away.
01:24:08.000Well, maybe they did, but maybe they didn't move away.
01:24:13.000And there was a tendency to think, well, you have this evidence of cultural habitation of this area for centuries or millennium, and then suddenly you don't.
01:24:22.000Well, people must have picked up and moved.
01:24:27.000Maybe it's more a case of they got wiped out.
01:24:30.000And one of the things you pointed out before is the evidence of there's certain mammals that appear to have died instantaneously, particularly mammoths.
01:25:23.000I think 1901 was a particularly warm year that year in Siberia.
01:25:27.000And there was a collapse of the ground that exposed this mammoth, right?
01:25:32.000And he was sitting on his haunches and both of his...
01:25:36.000Hips were broken, and he had food in his mouth and in his stomach.
01:25:41.000He'd been eating flowering plants, but now he was six tons in weight, and even the contents of his stomach had not putrefied, which meant that it got frozen.
01:25:52.000And a scientific study suggested that the entire carcass would have had to have been frozen within about 10 hours to prevent putrefaction of the material in the stomach.
01:26:01.000So how do you freeze a six-ton mammoth in 10 hours?
01:26:05.000That's That's where it gets, that's the conundrum.
01:26:08.000And a six-ton mammoth that had just been eating flowering plants.
01:26:44.000There's a lot of those conundrums that are not readily explained through gradualistic conundrums.
01:26:50.000Trevor Burrus Have you had a conversation with someone who's a blitzkrieg hypothesis who is of the opinion that the vast number of these Native American animals, North American animals, rather?
01:27:01.000I have not, but I'm pretty much familiar with most of the papers that they've written.
01:27:05.000And obviously, I think, like I said, I think that perhaps in the aftermath, there was a role for humans.
01:27:12.000However, when you see the assumption is Again, see, what we know now about the lifeways of those late Ice Age peoples was that they hunted small game, they fished, they foraged.
01:27:29.000Mammoths would have been the largest, most dangerous animal to hunt.
01:27:34.000And when you think about the fact that if you look at the estimates for total global population back during the late Pleistocene, it ranged from 5 to 10 million.
01:27:46.000The estimates that I've seen for the number of mammoths inhabiting the Earth was about 12 million.
01:27:54.000So you've got at least one mammoth for every man, woman, and child, at least one of the conventional interpretations, on Earth.
01:28:03.000Now, how do you exterminate not only the woolly mammoths, but the woolly rhinos, the mastodons, the ground sloths, the horses, the saber-toothed cats, the giant short-faced bear, the cave bear,
01:28:28.000It's based upon the fact that there have been a few sites that were assumed to be kill sites.
01:28:33.000Like, for example, at the Blackwater Draw, Clovis, New Mexico, they found a mammoth skeleton with a Clovis point between the ribs, in the rib cage.
01:28:43.000Then they did this major extrapolation from that, and this goes back to Paul Martin back in the 60s.
01:28:51.000They did a major extrapolation from that and said, well, oh, they were hunting.
01:28:59.000So they came across in this blitzkrieg, like we were talking about earlier, across the Bering Land Bridge connecting Alaska to Siberia, came down through that ice-free corridor, slaughtering basically all these animals in their pathway as they went.
01:29:13.000Never mind that no indigenous group culture that we've ever known in history has done that.
01:29:21.000They were able to slaughter, and I mean we're talking about even the megafauna of South America underwent as great a mass extinction as those in North America.
01:29:30.000So within a thousand years from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, every Megafaunal species was wiped out, or half of all megafaunal species in North America was three-quarters, roughly the same in South America, were wiped out so completely that they couldn't even viably replenish their species.
01:29:51.000I think that that's really implausible.
01:29:54.000And now basically with the evidence that there was catastrophic events that coincided precisely, With the major mass extinction episodes and the fact that human populations seem to have crashed at the same time, well,
01:30:09.000what that tells us is that, you know, probably, you know, you don't have a catastrophe that's going to wipe out 12 million woolly mammoths and then leave humans completely unscathed.
01:30:20.000We see the Clovis culture basically disappearing at the Younger Dryas boundary.
01:30:26.000So where were the people that were able to affect this great extermination event?
01:30:31.000If we have this estimate of TOBA, of getting people down to a few thousand people, what's the estimate of the Young Dryas impact?
01:30:38.000I have not seen estimates, but I would speculate this.
01:30:42.000One reason it's escaped our attention, particularly, is because there wasn't a genetic bottleneck the same as Toba, because basically that indicates to me—and this, again, I think the empirical data is consistent with this—the stories that we've inherited would suggest that there were dispersed survivors all over the Earth.
01:31:01.000And so if you have dispersed survivors, we could miss a genetic bottleneck entirely.
01:31:12.000So, dispersed survivors would mean that you have people that do stay alive if they have some sort of access to resources.
01:31:23.000There's something that they could survive off of, whereas people that had been subsisting off of these animals that had gone extinct and, you know, also the climate had changed radically.
01:31:34.000It's definitely going to be based upon that, your access to resources.
01:31:41.000And the habitat destruction is not going to be uniform.
01:31:45.000So there's going to be some places where, you know, the damage is less severe.
01:31:50.000And there are going to be, you know, in ecology, when you have a major environmental destruction situation, Oh, a few years ago I went to Mount St. Helens to study how the nature was recovering in the aftermath because you had a couple hundred square miles in the aftermath of Mount St. Helens back in May of 1980 that was just basically turned into a completely decimated lunar landscape.
01:32:17.000But even within that, There were little pockets of ferns that survived.
01:32:23.000And from those ferns, you see life gradually beginning to proliferate outwards.
01:32:30.000And then with an increasing pace as the years go by.
01:32:33.000And so now maybe a third of the area that was devastated is being reclaimed.
01:32:54.000Certainly by half a millennium, I think you're going to be seeing forests completely recovering on the mountain.
01:33:01.000It's such a fascinating subject because I feel like we're so underprepared and under-informed.
01:33:08.000I feel so few people are even conscious.
01:33:12.000of like just that closing counter slide that you showed and so many different asteroids have whizzed past us so closely and how we're so accustomed to our supply chain, we're so accustomed to supermarkets and this is the most vulnerable the species has ever been in terms of our ability to subsist.
01:33:31.000We're almost completely dependent upon these large structures We're completely dependent on supermarkets and supply chains that are coming in on trucks and boats and airplanes.
01:33:47.000I think part of the problem is that What we've been looking at here has been kind of pushed off the radar screen because the whole emphasis for the last couple of decades now is, you know, what?
01:33:59.000That, you know, we're responsible for catastrophic climate change and What you don't want to really be talking about too much is that there has been repeated episodes, too many to count, episodes of catastrophic climate change that we had nothing to do with.
01:34:40.000And is there anything that we could have done differently to prepare ourselves for impacts?
01:34:45.000Like if we – say if this knowledge that you're talking about right here, if this had been widely distributed say two decades ago, could there have been some methods put into place or something?
01:34:57.000Well, if we had kept up the momentum of our space program from the 60s, We could be there now.
01:35:02.000You think they would be able to have something that could knock these things off course?
01:35:07.000The DART, the mission that was just launched that's going to rendezvous with an asteroid, is to test the possibility of – see, here's the thing.
01:35:17.000If we can find an asteroid in orbit, right?
01:35:21.000We can trace its pathway into the future.
01:35:24.000We know, okay, we got 10 years, 20 years, that asteroid is going to be crossing Earth's orbit at the precise moment the Earth is there.
01:35:31.000This is how they were able to predict, remember 1994, July, Shoemaker leaving 9?
01:35:38.00021 objects slammed into Jupiter in July of 1994. That was predicted over a year in advance, right?
01:35:48.000It took from the discovery to the point where its trajectory could be What could be predicted was about three or four months of observations.
01:35:59.000Over those three or four months of observations, the scientists, the astronomers were able to go, okay, it's tracing this arc of an ellipse at this velocity.
01:36:11.000Well, we can project that into the future and we can recreate the entire ellipse And we can, by using gravitational perturbation theory and all of that, we can predict that, you know, 15 or a year from now, this was after three months of observation, a year from now,
01:36:26.000it's going to be back out and it's going to be crossing the orbit of Jupiter.
01:36:49.000The technologies would be the simplest thing, I think, and the one that makes the most sense to me, is that if you catch it early enough, A direct hit, a little nudge, could turn a direct hit into a wide miss.
01:37:05.000And how difficult is it to calculate whether or not it's going to hit us from distance?
01:37:11.000If you've got enough observations, it's not that difficult.
01:37:17.000It's not that—just like it was pretty much straightforward, you have what are called the orbital elements.
01:37:22.000And you can do some mathematical equations on those orbital elements and that will tell you when and where it's going to be.
01:37:30.000And so then they would just shoot some sort of rocket at it and knock it off course.
01:37:33.000Probably the best thing would be you actually just go and – and I think that what the DART mission is looking at is actually attaching an object with booster rockets on it.
01:37:52.000And is it the same thing like you would think about with a ship, that if two ships are going in a parallel line, if you just knock one of them slightly off course over time, it's far...
01:41:01.000We went and had dinner together or something.
01:41:04.000He wanted to know if I would be willing, if he organized all the base commanders, if I would be willing to come and address them and talk to them about planetary defense.
01:42:00.000Being someone in the military that has to make pragmatic decisions and decisions, life or death decisions, that are often very uncomfortable.
01:42:09.000And you need some hard-nosed, realistic individuals implementing these.
01:42:16.000You can't do that under the guise of wokenism.
01:42:47.000So that was the only person that's ever contacted you about doing something about this, about putting something in play.
01:42:54.000Yes, but that would, see, what he told me was that a lot of the younger base commanders were really interested in this idea of planetary defense.
01:43:04.000And he said this was not our primary mission.
01:43:07.000However, I think, and he believed that it was critically important.
01:43:10.000In fact, His connection may have been you and me.
01:44:13.000I mean, we make all these grand plans for the future of our cities and we're worried about political problems and which party is going to control the House.
01:44:24.000I got to say, though, I suspect I would not be a bit surprised if Matt got reinstated once the political climate changes.
01:44:33.000The other thing is, you know, The US government has dropped the ball for the most part, and what we see now is the private space program stepping into the void.
01:44:44.000So I'm very much a proponent and an advocate of that.
01:44:49.000I believe that it's our destiny to move into space, and I think that if we don't, We're going to go the way of the dinosaurs eventually, and maybe our species won't get extinct.
01:45:01.000But the point is, and I think you're seeing this, and the point of what we're talking about is that our civilization is actually way more vulnerable than we've assumed.
01:45:12.000Well, I think this pandemic alerted people to that, because something that had a very high survival rate Still completely disrupted the world economy, completely disrupted us in most ways.
01:45:26.000Yeah, so imagine a Tunguska-type event times a hundred.
01:47:38.000It's covered by 1 to 200 feet of soil called LUS. It's a type of unique, very fertile soil that is accumulated on top of the basalt rock.
01:47:50.000Okay, so at the end of the last ice age, there were a series of meltwater pulses that discharged off the ice sheet and it washed away the topsoil and exposed this dark basalt underneath.
01:48:36.000Now terminal moraine, if you picture this, Joe, you've got a glacier tongue coming down, and as it's coming down, oversimplified, but it gives the idea, it's bulldozing up material.
01:48:47.000It's pulverizing the ground underneath, It's pulling up and then, so this moraine here is basically exactly defines the end or the edge of this glacier lobe that reached all the way back up into here over the Canadian Rockies.
01:49:09.000Well, sometime between 12, say, and 14,000 years ago, there was a series of massive meltwater pulses that discharged off the ice sheet.
01:49:20.000And this thing here, for example, is called Moses Coulee.
01:49:24.000And Moses Coulee is basically a giant scar in the earth that was cut within a matter of probably A week or two.
01:49:34.000It's 800 to 1,000 feet deep and up to a mile to two miles wide, right?
01:49:40.000So I've been exploring this- That was a week?
01:49:48.000It's mostly the studies because we know the peak discharges.
01:49:52.000And we're talking here, both Moses Cooley right here and Grand Cooley up here had peak discharges of about 300 to 400 million cubic feet per second.
01:50:04.000Well, you can't even begin to wrap your head around what 300 million cubic feet per second means.
01:50:09.000But if you were to take every single river on Earth, every river, you know, Mississippi, the Columbia, the Mackenzie, the Yukon, the Orinaco, the Amazon, the Congo, the Nile,
01:50:25.000the Po, the Yellow River of China, all the rivers of Earth, add them all together, You'd still have to multiply that by at least 10 to 20 to get a peak discharge of 300 to 400 million cubic feet per second.
01:51:20.000We started at Portland and ended in Minneapolis.
01:51:23.000And what we did was we followed the margin of the great ice sheets.
01:51:27.000So I basically was showing them all of this evidence for these catastrophic meltwater discharges.
01:51:33.000If you get the book, Magicians of the Gods, I think two or three chapters he talks about our journey together.
01:51:39.000So the Netflix episode we're going to do is we're going to be going, we're going to go to Grand Coulee.
01:51:46.000We're going to go Right here to this feature, and this is a giant extinct cataract feature, like a gigantic version of Niagara Falls, but many, many times larger.
01:52:02.000And there's no flowing water here now because it was a temporary giant discharge of meltwater when that meltwater finally passed over the landscape, drained off into the Pacific Ocean.
01:52:15.000It left these giant fossil features here.
01:52:17.000And you can see, I mean, here's a highway right here, right?
01:52:22.000This building here, the Dry Falls Visitor Center, is this building right here.
01:52:27.000And there's a picture of Graham and I. We're standing...
01:53:10.000The conventional reason is that Over here in western Montana there was a giant lake and that lake was held in by an ice dam right in the area of Lake Pend Oreille and the water backed up 2,100 feet deep behind the ice dam.
01:53:26.000The ice dam gave way and all this water spilled out and then spilled across the basalt plateau.
01:53:35.000I have strong issues about that explanation for multiple reasons.
01:53:41.000The main reason being is that ice is very unstable.
01:53:45.000And if we look at modern ice dam lakes that we've seen in the last, say, 100 years, their peak discharges and their peak volumes are typically like only one-thousandth or less.
01:53:59.000Even the big ones are only about one-thousandth the volume of this.
01:54:04.000I believe, and others I think are starting to believe, that we're actually looking at some kind of an accelerated melting.
01:54:13.000Because for one thing, the conventional explanations for this giant lake do not ever explain how that lake got there.
01:54:21.000Let me just go back to here and I'll show you, let's see, Cataclysmus 1, this should give it to us right here.
01:54:31.000And you'll see the configuration of...
01:55:25.000So here, this would have been Lake Missoula, and this would have been all of the area that we were just looking at where it's eroded.
01:55:31.000All that water would have come down, flowed through the Columbia Gorge here.
01:55:36.000This Portland is right here, would have turned north and right here at Astoria would have drained into the Pacific Ocean.
01:55:43.000There was so much water coming down here that it backed all the way up through Willamette Valley and formed a temporary body of water 400 feet deep, where Portland now is, which would have completely submerged Portland, right?
01:55:56.000So this is basically the configuration.
01:55:59.000Now, there you can see this would have been the ice dam.
01:56:32.000Because he was talking about giant floods back in the 1920s and 30s, but of course he was proven right and ended up being the recipient of the Penrose Medal in his 90s.
01:56:48.000Where did he see the evidence for some sort of a flooding?
01:56:53.000He was doing research along the Columbia River and he kept seeing evidence like these gigantic gravel bars and boulders and things that seemed out of place.
01:57:04.000And he actually, in fact in 1910 is when he got interested in this and he saw, in fact I'll pull this up, I'll go back to Google Maps and There was a newly released map that came out that was this feature right here.
01:57:28.000And in a minute I'll show you some drone footage of this feature.
01:57:34.000This new topographic map came out, 1910, and he was regularly getting maps.
01:58:13.000When the water gets so turbulent that it's doing this, like a tornado, and it literally can drill into the rock in a matter of days, it can drill.
01:58:24.000And what you see here is the evidence of gigantic Turbulence.
01:58:30.000And this is called a recessional cataract.
01:58:33.000So as the water pours over this, picture you've got the rock.
01:58:38.000Okay, so the water is pouring over it.
01:58:41.000And as it does, as it pours over, it's eroding the wall of the cataract back.
01:59:25.000And yeah, I mean, we can see turbulence in modern water flows.
01:59:29.000But the thing is, to do something like this, you have to have extremely deep, extremely fast-moving turbulent water and sustained for, maybe in this case, a few weeks.
02:00:49.000This is a ridge separating this basin area here from the Columbia River.
02:00:55.000Another spillover point was right here.
02:01:00.000It also has two alcoves with a rock blade.
02:01:03.000If we go back to Dry Falls Cataract, which is up here, you will see two alcoves, a rock blade, and you'll see that there's now a separation here.
02:01:18.000Because what's happening is this rock blade is being washed away.
02:01:23.000And again, had the water flow continued for another week or two, this rock blade would have been gone.
02:01:29.000Now, is there a conventional explanation for these features?
02:01:32.000Do they try to come up with some other alternative explanation?
02:02:18.000I'm thinking that there was at least maybe three episodes of catastrophic flooding imprinted in this landscape.
02:02:26.000The first one I would speculate was at 14,600.
02:02:30.000Second one would have been Younger Dryas, and the third one would have been 11,600.
02:02:36.000Now, I know that they've found evidence of human beings in North America that predate 11,000 years.
02:02:44.000Is there an understanding of if this impact theory is correct and if it did greatly diminish the population of people that are living in North America?
02:05:56.000You don't really comprehend it though until you've been across those landscapes and experienced them firsthand knowing what the story is.
02:06:07.000You come away – I mean it's like a – it's almost like an acid drip in a way.
02:06:11.000It's so mind stretching when you begin to see this stuff firsthand that you really realize, oh my god, there have been forces unleashed on this planet that utterly dwarf anything that we humans have yet been able to do.
02:06:26.000So is there any estimation at all about what size the comet was that impacted the ice caps or how many of them?
02:06:36.000See, this is such a new idea and it's still at this point very controversial.
02:06:42.000But I think, you know, some of the comet research group is looking at that.
02:06:47.000And see, this is a whole area of research that has been looked at by paleohydrologists who have not been astronomers, right?
02:06:56.000Now you've got astronomers who are looking at...
02:07:37.000Yeah, that's one of the things that freaks me out about humanity is that there's occasionally these figures, and if they didn't exist, everything's different.
02:07:45.000Well, you know, I've had this obsessive hobby for years.
02:08:25.000That's when we met, because he was there as well.
02:08:27.000That that was the first year of the podcast.
02:08:30.000I mean it might not have even started or it might have just started.
02:08:34.000So you, in that one conversation that we had at the comedy club, you sparked this interest in my mind.
02:08:39.000But I remember talking to you thoroughly blown away and then leaving that club with a completely different thought process when it comes to like the history of life on North America and the world in general and this whole impact theory that you've been working on for so long.
02:08:57.000So I successfully corrupted you at that point.
02:09:19.000Because Graham was one of my first guests.
02:09:22.000Graham was Duncan Trussell and I and Graham and that was early early on in the podcast because I had Read fingerprints of the gods I had read You know his whole idea of this restarting of civilization and this concept that we are a civilization with amnesia yeah,
02:09:42.000and that something had happened and It's really cool To see him, because I remember back in the day, I'd bring that book up, and people would call me, you know, crazy, fringe, conspiracy-loving moron.
02:09:58.000Most of the people that hadn't read the book.
02:09:59.000But once Gobekli Tepe emerged, and then Dr. Robert Schock from Boston University, who started examining the water erosion of the Temple of the Sphinx, and All of these different pieces came into play where you have undeniable evidence of an advanced civilization that's making massive complex stone structures,
02:10:19.000concentric circles, all these different structures like 11,000 plus years ago at a time where they thought people were just primarily hunters and gatherers.
02:10:27.000And then watching them try to take this...
02:10:30.000Hunter gather a theory and apply it to these incredible stone structures.
02:10:41.000It gave me an understanding of science and scientists in an unflattering way.
02:10:49.000Not that they're all like this, but There is a problem when someone proclaims a very specific thing.
02:10:59.000They have a thing that they've been teaching, they have a thing that they learned, and they have a thing that they subscribe to in terms of a timeline, and then any new evidence does not get treated like evidence.
02:11:18.000And you watch them argue it with, like, I remember when Graham Hancock was there with Zawi Hawass and there was another man who was an Egyptologist and mocking this idea that there was an advanced civilization 9,000 years ago.
02:11:35.000Well, now, of course, we know that's true.
02:11:40.000So then you have to re-look at the old style, old kingdom construction of Egypt and how different it was in the later years and the fact that it was all under sand and that they had to excavate this stuff and that you have two completely different styles of construction.
02:13:06.000And then you go all these other places like Graham has documented.
02:13:10.000And this is kind of where Graham and I, where our work kind of complemented, and I think how he and I first connected was I'm not sure how he—I'm not sure about the first connection, but in any case, what he kind of focused on was the evidence for something in terms of civilization.
02:13:32.000And he was theorizing that there was a catastrophe, right?
02:13:36.000I was focusing, on the other hand, on the evidence for catastrophic events.
02:13:40.000So his research and my research sort of complemented each other.
02:13:57.000You know, with Graham's – and it also – it helped Graham's work so much because it gave a real, like, context to, like, why this would have taken place.
02:14:17.000But it was not justified because mainstream academia has gotten locked into these models of history and they don't want to let go for many reasons.
02:14:29.000And I think one of the reasons gets actually into politics.
02:14:33.000It has to do with our conception of who we are, where we're at now.
02:14:38.000We're supposedly in the midst of the sixth great mass extinction right now that we're causing and Like you said earlier, to recognize that there have been these gigantic catastrophes and mass extinction events in Earth's history is not in any way to say, well, we just should have a free hand in doing anything or whatever.
02:14:56.000Not at all, although some people will interpret it that way, you know.
02:15:01.000But the thing is that we now have to recognize the reality that these events have happened and we have not been the perpetrators of them.
02:15:11.000We have not been the perpetrators of these Previous mass extinction events, we've been the victims, right?
02:15:18.000And so right now, though, the whole thing, and it gets back to the global warming thing and all of that, is that, you know, and I don't really know if we want to get into that whole discussion because it's worthy of several hours in itself,
02:15:35.000but, you know, it's control, you know.
02:15:40.000And what we see now is with the whole COVID thing and Global warming.
02:15:45.000We're seeing proponents of global warming saying that, oh, well, hey, if we lock people down into their homes, they're not going to be driving cars.
02:15:54.000If they're not driving cars, they're not putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
02:16:00.000I mean, when you look at the net zero scenarios, I mean, I don't even want to get into that right now.
02:16:08.000But if you get into it and you begin to look at it, you realize, well, basically what they're going to do is they're going to Essentially render us impotent.
02:16:16.000They're going to render modern civilization impotent.
02:16:24.000Would it be a climate scientist or someone who would theorize that the way to do it is to make sure that people don't go anywhere, that way they don't emit any carbon?
02:17:10.000Again, I've written and actually lectured on this quite extensively.
02:17:14.000Warming periods are usually periods of prosperity because you have an extension of the growing season.
02:17:20.000You have Periods like if you go back to the medieval warming period, which was roughly from 1000 A.D. to 1300 A.D. This was the period where – and when you get to Europe and you go particularly to France,
02:17:37.000take a tour and spend a week going and seeing some of the magnificent cathedrals.
02:17:41.000And realizing when you're looking at these unbelievably complex structures that would have taken – for the whole phenomena, you would have had to have hundreds of thousands of trained people working because you had stone cutters, you had stone carvers,
02:17:57.000you had sculptors, you had glaziers, you had carpenters, you had astronomers, you had engineers.
02:18:03.000They all had to be fed and housed and clothed.
02:18:05.000Well, you couldn't do that without – That surplus, we can now demonstrate, and this is something that's pretty much for the most part pushed off the radar screen, that the medieval warm period was a degree or two warmer than now.
02:18:21.000And what you had was you had agricultural surpluses that made that period of prosperity possible.
02:18:29.000It was preceded by what is called the Dark Ages Cold Period.
02:18:33.000During this time, it was very difficult because you had agricultural failures.
02:18:39.000You had cold spells that would cause the—they say that 536 to 540 A.D. was the coldest four or five years of the last 2,000 years.
02:18:51.000And you had population decline, you had increase of infant mortality, you had decrease in lifespan.
02:19:01.000When the warmth came back into the world, the sea ice retreated north.
02:19:05.000Now the Vikings were able to sail across the northern seas.
02:19:10.000Iceland became populated, became colonized.
02:19:14.000Vikings came to Greenland and were able to farm on the west coast of Greenland where it's now permafrost, right?
02:19:21.000In Europe, you had agricultural surpluses, so you had a huge increase in population between 1000 A.D. and about 1130. You had this ability to undertake this tremendous enterprise of this magnificent,
02:19:37.000glorious enterprise of cathedral building.
02:19:40.000The climate of the medieval warm period lasted until the late 1200s, early 1300s, and then it began to shift and became cold, and it was the first onset of what's called the Little Ice Age.
02:19:53.000And between about 13, right in there, and about 1340, you had a succession of agricultural failures, which led to famine, right?
02:20:06.000That famine led to people being malnourished, Which made their immune systems weak, and they now became susceptible to infectious diseases.
02:20:16.000And it was around 1340 that the bubonic plague swept over Europe because it was a result of the cold.
02:20:24.000And of course, right at that point, you see that between 1300 and 1340, that was the end of the cathedral building era.
02:20:30.000You can find the same thing happened in the aftermath, like I said, 536 to 540 AD. So the bubonic plague was a result of cold?
02:20:38.000It was a result of the fact that people were weak.
02:21:51.000However, I – I'm a bit skeptical because I won't pull it up now, but I could pull up and show you probably 500 articles on the importance of the sun in warming and cooling that have been mostly ignored in the IPCC's models and projections of climate change.
02:22:13.000And if we go into another solar minimum, like the Maunder minimum or the Spore minimum, Yeah, we're in for decades of cold weather.
02:22:25.000And we're going to see ice growing again.
02:22:38.000See, when these global warming models were first being developed in the late 80s and early 90s, we were just at the very beginning of deploying solar-observing satellites.
02:23:04.000However, we now have like 30 years of in-hand evidence that the Sun is way more variable than was assumed 30 and 40 years ago.
02:23:14.000That being the case, yeah, the Sun would now have a much more important role to play.
02:23:19.000Because, you know, in the last 30 years, we've had massive amounts of new data from solar satellites that have been observing the Sun.
02:23:28.000And so when the computer models were first being devised in the early 90s and stuff, the assumption was that the sun was not playing a role and so we don't need to look at the sun.
02:23:40.000You eliminate all the natural variables until only carbon dioxide is left.
02:23:45.000And that's pretty much where we're still at, because by the time you get into the 2000s and it was becoming apparent that the sun was actually a much more important factor in climate change and had been acknowledged, by that point, the whole scenario had already become entrenched.
02:24:02.000And you now had huge amounts of money being poured in to that whole scenario.
02:24:07.000I was reading about how vulnerable we are to solar flares.
02:25:22.000In September 1859, a solar storm known as the Carrington Event, named for astronomer Richard Carrington, who observed the corresponding solar flare the day before, struck Earth, causing widespread technological havoc.
02:26:02.000Interestingly, some telegraph operators reported being able to send messages without the batteries attached using only the currents in the air.
02:26:11.000If a storm of that magnitude were to strike today, the impact to technology could be catastrophic.
02:26:17.000Power lines could receive energy from the storm and spread it out.
02:26:21.000Because our power grid is interconnected, a spike in one region could impact areas which might otherwise be less affected, according to a NASA-funded National Academy of Sciences report from NASA. In 2008, transformers would be damaged and the power outages would occur around the world.
02:26:36.000Radio and satellite communications could be knocked out resulting in a massive blackout without the benefit of being able to talk to one another.
02:26:43.000Now that would be pretty catastrophic.
02:27:10.000So what we're interested in is the conclusion down here.
02:27:14.000With our present knowledge, we cannot specify the cause of this event.
02:27:18.000However, we can say that an extremely energetic event occurred around our space environment in AD 775. In the future, other high-resolution records, such as beryllium-10 and nitrate data, together with careful research of historical documentation around AD 75 and further surveys of undetected supernova remnants This was probably a solar event.
02:27:46.000Causes, so we get into another article here, causes of the AD 774-775 carbon-14 increase, talking about the Carrington event.
02:27:55.000Such an event would cause great damage to modern technology, and in view of recent confirmation of super flares on solar-type stars, this issue merits attention.
02:28:09.000A Carrington-level event would be disastrous for electromagnetic technology, causing widespread damage to satellites and transformers linking the power grid.
02:28:19.000No assessment has been made of the technological effects of an event 20 times stronger.
02:28:35.000I think this is going to be more likely, but yes.
02:28:38.000So what we're realizing, again, this is my point, is we've learned a whole lot about the Sun.
02:28:43.000And that the Sun is not necessarily the invariable star that it was assumed to be.
02:28:48.000Now, we just talked about the effects of a Carrington-level event.
02:28:52.000Now, he's asking the question, no assessment has been made of the technological effects of an event 20 times stronger.
02:28:59.000You know, it's so funny because we talk about Plato and you talk about Plato's description of what Atlantis must have been like and also this idea that they were trying to make sense of the catastrophic forces of nature and comet impacts and all these different things.
02:29:17.000And we look back on their limited understanding of the universe and the world and all the natural forces.
02:29:24.000But we're kind of in a similar boat in comparison to the way people are going to look back at us.
02:29:29.000We just don't think about it because we're wrapped up in this timeline.
02:29:32.000And we do have all this amazing technology, like we talked about, your ability to zoom in with your laptop and show the topographic features of the landscape that indicates that it's been hit with all this water damage.
02:29:54.000And this is why I think it's so important that we actually look at our own past and realize that our ancestors weren't these primitive ignorant savages that we've assumed they were, and that their legacy that's been handed down to us may turn out to be extremely valuable in trying to understand the big picture.
02:30:10.000It also makes sense when you think about Graham's research, Graham Hancock's work, when it makes sense that these people were very advanced in terms of their ability to grasp concepts and thoughts, but they weren't as technologically advanced because they were the remnants of a civilization that had to start over from scratch or close to it.
02:30:30.000So really intelligent people that had to go without all of the knowledge and all of the creations of people from the past because most things had been wiped out.
02:30:40.000And this is what I think of as the real great reset, that when these kind of events happen and civilization basically has to start over.
02:30:48.000Trevor Burrus, Jr.: How many times do you think this has happened with human beings?
02:30:51.000Well, I think if we look into Holocene, it's probably happened half a dozen to ten times.
02:30:55.000If we look at, you know, the Bronze Age collapse, what's the cause there?
02:31:00.000It may have been volcanic and Extraterrestrial.
02:31:06.000Exogenic means from the outside, endogenic means from within.
02:31:10.000And I think there's times the perfect storm is when you get the simultaneous effects of both.
02:31:18.000There's some evidence now that would be suggesting that ET events, exogenic events, might actually be triggers for a terrestrial response.
02:31:28.000If you have an impact, like we know, for example, That there was enormous amounts of volcanism associated with the whole deglaciation phase, right?
02:31:36.000There was also very large earthquakes as the ice masses being transferred from the land back into the oceans.
02:31:46.000You've got this tremendous mass transfer over the surface of the earth.
02:31:50.000That leads to a significant terrestrial response, which could be volcanism and earthquakes.
02:31:59.000It completely makes sense, and there's empirical evidence to support that.
02:32:02.000I mean, just imagine what you're talking about, any of those enormous asteroids that are flying by Earth, if they slammed right into Yellowstone.
02:32:11.000In fact, David Ault who is a geologist theorized like at least 20 some years ago that about 17 million years ago the magma plume that's under Yellowstone may have been caused by an impact of an iron asteroid.
02:32:28.000Punching through the crust and causing an upwelling.
02:32:33.000That as long as you got this overlying cap, but if you remove it, like in the case of a hypervelocity impact, it allows the upwelling.
02:32:41.000And in fact, the whole Columbia basalt plateau that we were just looking at, that is the outflow, the basalt outflow from the magma plume that's now under Yellowstone.
02:32:54.000The Deccan traps in India correlate in age with the Cretaceous-Tertiary impact of 66 million years ago that caused the extermination of the dinosaurs.
02:33:05.000The Siberian traps are associated with the Permian-Triassic event of 245 million, which may or may not have been caused by an impact.
02:34:32.000In fact, I think our species evolved out of the natural order of terrestrial life because we're the one species that can be sitting here having this conversation.
02:34:44.000Yeah, but we could easily get wiped out and start from scratch and then a new species has to pick up the slack, some lizard people, you know, 45 million years from now.
02:34:54.000But you see, I guess my optimism comes from the fact that you and I are sitting here having this conversation.
02:35:32.000And I want to see us get back to being, you know, I'm of the mind, I like the adventurous entrepreneurial spirit.
02:35:41.000I can't abide by this, oh, we're going to get all offended because we're using the wrong pronouns or we're going to get triggered or whatever.
02:35:48.000Look, We've got some huge things in front of us that we're going to have to contend with if we're going to have any kind of sustainable existence on this planet for generations to come.
02:35:58.000And I think it's going to probably take a wake-up call.
02:36:01.000But it's also the pressure that you're getting from these nonproductive people that are trying to enforce like woke talk and things along those lines.
02:36:10.000They've chosen to try to control the thinking and behavior of other people.
02:36:15.000Rather than controlling their own personal creative output or their own personal success and their own personal progress.
02:36:26.000It's like, it's what you concentrate on.
02:36:28.000If you're concentrating constantly on trying to diminish other people's ability to express themselves and to try to control the way they express themselves, like, it's just a...
02:36:39.000It's a poor management of resources and a lack of understanding about your own issues with discipline and self-reflection.
02:36:47.000And we're in the middle of that now because it's easy to do because of social media.
02:36:51.000Because you can express yourself so readily and easily through social media, it's very tempting for people.
02:36:57.000Then they get wrapped up in these kind of social media exchanges with folks and it becomes an addictive part of your day and it leads you to be even less productive.
02:37:08.000Yeah, I mean, just, you know, you've been around long enough.
02:37:11.000I've been around long enough to see how things have changed, you know, since I was a kid growing up.
02:37:17.000You know, my upbringing was rural Minnesota.
02:38:44.000They would build a fire, have a kettle, and they would put the nails in the kettle and heat up the nails so that then when they're handling the nails, the nails were hot and would keep their hands from freezing.
02:38:54.000Now, you know, where are the men like that?
02:38:57.000I mean, they're still around but I think that, you know, that kind of an attitude towards things seems to be diminishing.
02:39:10.000Well, I don't know if it's gotten too easy, but it's gotten easy enough so that the path of least resistance becomes even more tempting to folks.
02:39:20.000And by the path of least resistance, the problem is you create resistance all around you.
02:39:25.000You know, and you create resistance for people that are trying to do their own thing and you want to like control the way people view the world and define the world and the language that they use and the way they behave and think.
02:40:05.000Our best hope is that we can educate people on the value of discipline and creativity and hard work and The satisfaction that comes with accomplishing goals and projects.
02:40:17.000And also that social media communication is terrible for real-world communication.
02:42:40.000I was mostly mathematical-based and science.
02:42:43.000So like one year, for example, I had three boys.
02:42:47.000We were doing a Had a science class, and we decided we wanted to do something really cool, so we entered a science fair, a national science fair contest against, I think, over 3,000 teams.
02:43:00.000There was something like 13,000 students in this science fair.
02:44:03.000We built a model, me and three of him and two other boys, entered the science fair contest and we won second place nationally.
02:44:12.000So I had students that I took from very beginning level geometry up through the lower levels of calculus who then went on to do excellent academic achievement,
02:44:28.000have become Doctors, scientists, you know, I just in fact ran into one of them just a few days ago while I was in Atlanta.
02:44:37.000Little boy had been in my class like 20 years ago.
02:44:41.000And now he's launched, he's an entrepreneur of a tech company that he's just launched, right?
02:44:47.000Anyways, out of this, I realized that, you know, the way, the thing that I came to believe was that Modern education has got so many things wrong with it.
02:45:01.000One, the stratification of modern education.
02:45:07.000You know, if you look at traditional societies, when a kid, particularly I can speak from the boy's point of view, when a boy got to adolescent, at that point you were thought of as a young man and you start, you were integrated now into adult society and you were expected to start behaving as an adult,
02:45:25.000Well, You know, we don't really do that anymore.
02:45:28.000It's like what we see so much coming now, I think, out of even the college-age kids is this, like, extended infantilism.
02:45:37.000You know, they come out and they're still, you know, look, you're supposed to go to college and be exposed to challenging ideas, exposed to different points of view.
02:45:46.000Instead, they're coming out and they're like, we don't want whoever to come onto campus.
02:45:52.000We don't want Jordan Peterson to come onto campus because he's going to expose us to ideas that we're scared of.
02:46:01.000I think we need to, one of the first things we need to do is like move away from that.
02:46:05.000So what I would do is I would get a class, like let's say we're going to have a class in geometry.
02:46:11.000I would take kids out to the building site and I would show them here's how we're using geometry to lay out this building, this house.
02:46:19.000And the exact things we just learned in the classroom, look at how we're applying those.
02:46:27.000I would take them out to the job site and I would say, look, here's how we're using trigonometry to design this complicated roof.
02:46:33.000We would go back to the classroom and I would have the kids as a problem, as an exercise, figuring out What are the angles of the cuts?
02:46:42.000What are the compound miters we need to cut from the lumber so it all can fit together like pieces of a puzzle?
02:46:49.000And then we'd go back out to the job site and they would see how it's all going together, right?
02:46:54.000I would take, in fact, And, you know, one of the other things that's happened is that, you know, at the early 20th century, 80% of the American population was agricultural and rural.
02:48:09.000Over 120 kids tutored in classes over the next 15 years.
02:48:12.000It is critically important to develop alternatives to the authoritarian, hierarchical, monopolistic system of indoctrination that now usurps the function of authentic education.
02:48:41.000I had probably a hundred kids that I took out on these kinds of field trips.
02:48:46.000Like it says here, getting students out of the classroom into the real world of nature is vitally important to any system of education and promotes the psychological well-being of students.
02:49:29.000And so it was just, you know, that was something...
02:49:32.000When I went into this, I did not expect that that was going to be an element, that I was going to get close to these kids and then grieve over their passing.
02:49:45.000He was 9 when he actually came up with the idea.
02:49:48.000And then a couple of years later, we began to actually, hey, let's take that idea and You know, see if we can develop, enter a science fair contest and we did.
02:50:00.000Like it says, we got second place nationally.
02:50:03.000And then so scientists discover a major lasting benefit of growing up outside the city.
02:50:11.000You can actually see that for kids exposed to nature, it actually affects structural changes in their brain.
02:50:18.000That kids that are growing up in a strictly urban environment now are being deprived of that.
02:50:23.000And studies are now showing that kids that are exposed regularly to nature grow up with far less psychological problems, lower levels of divorce, suicide, drug addiction, etc., etc.
02:50:37.000And so I think that this is the direction we have to move to start healing what has gone wrong with our society.
02:50:43.000Do you think that maybe we've overlooked a component of development for human beings that it's not just a choice whether or not you're around nature, but it's actually a necessity?
02:51:33.000And I think, God, more kids, young people need to have that kind of an experience growing up.
02:51:39.000So this whole thing that we're doing with this group of very incredible people that I've been working with for some now five to ten years, some of them longer than that, are coming together around these ideas.
02:51:54.000And I don't know if you know Chris Martinson or Does Peak Prosperity.
02:52:03.000He'd be a good—yeah, I mean some great people that are intimately involved in this and going to help raise money for the first prototype.
02:52:14.000We're looking at land in eastern Tennessee as one place.
02:52:21.000I've got some people out there that I've been working with who are very much about trying to make something like this happen, to create a prototype.
02:52:34.000And see, another thing that I believe is that, and I did this in my classes, I said, okay, you pay for your tuition for your kid As long as there's room, I encouraged parents to come in and participate because I really believe that this whole artificial stratification by age is detrimental.
02:52:54.000And you need to like – this horizontal stratification to me again is debilitating and we need to have like a vertical integration.
02:53:03.000So that I found this in my homeschool classes that I would sometimes have kids from the range from 10 to say 15 or 16. And I noticed there was a natural dynamic that emerged.
02:53:14.000The older kids would naturally become mentors to the younger kids, you see?
02:53:20.000And we'd have adults in there and pretty soon it was almost like this, you know, my generation when we came of age was the generation gap.
02:53:39.000What brought that about was the The way that American education evolved because prior to World War II, most schools in America were the one-room schoolhouse.
02:53:53.000Coming out of World War II is when you begin to have these large institutionalized consolidation of schools.
02:54:02.000Like it really accelerated in the 50s.
02:54:06.000My father was in a one-room schoolhouse until he got to high school, like in 1944, I think it was, 43. At that point, they had just built a brand-new high school that had like 800 kids, which was exceptional at that point.
02:54:19.000But when you go back and you look at it, what you see is the schools got bigger and bigger and bigger.
02:54:24.000And the bigger they got, the more impersonal they got.
02:54:27.000Now, when I started homeschooling, I was working with some of the teachers in the Waldorf system.
02:54:34.000The Waldorf kids come in at the kindergarten age and they'll have a teacher who stays with them all the way up until through middle school.
02:54:42.000Now, you have a small class of 10 or 15 kids.
02:54:47.000Think about the dynamic in the relationship.
02:54:51.000That teacher's going to know those kids.
02:54:53.000I found that when I was teaching courses in math and I would have six, seven, eight kids, if one of them wasn't getting it, I knew instantly.
02:55:03.000And I never left anybody behind because we didn't have to.
02:55:06.000And I also found that, oh, if this child was not getting it, this student over here was more than eager to show, to jump in there and say, oh, and help them.
02:55:17.000I found that that was also something very important.
02:55:20.000And my memory, and you've probably had the same experience, my memory was, you know, when I was particularly middle school, bullyism was rampant.
02:55:29.000You know, I got my first year in middle school, I got bullied mercilessly.
02:55:33.000And then eighth grade, when I went to eighth grade, I finally—I had gone through adolescence, and I had also spent that summer between seventh and eighth grade working on the farm.
02:55:42.000So what we did on the farm was hauling in hay bales.
02:55:49.000It would get cut in hay bales back in those days.
02:55:53.000And so you'd go out there, and you'd have to lift the hay bales up onto the wagon, and then the wagon— One of the other boys would drive the wagon.
02:56:02.000Sometimes one of the girls on the farm girls would be driving the tractor.
02:56:05.000Go back to the barn, unload that, and then you go back out.
02:57:00.000But yeah, so you know, but bullyism was very endemic to that whole stratification because what I observed was the bullies were always the kids The boys, primarily, that have been held back, right?
02:57:15.000So particularly in middle school, there's a big difference.
02:57:18.000Yeah, you're a year older, two years older, you're bigger, but you've also got this insecurity about this feeling of inferiority, because now you're Been placed in your, you know, your peers are these younger kids.
02:57:33.000It's just almost like an open invitation to become a bully.
02:57:37.000It's also they're probably psychologically damaged, which is why they're not excelling in school in the first place.
02:57:44.000But see, I particularly like with math, I found that everybody, for math particularly, you got to...
02:57:51.000See, people, I don't know how many times I heard, like a parent would come to me and say, well, you know, Little Mark thinks he's no good at math.
02:57:59.000He's been in public school and, you know, he's fallen way behind.
02:58:04.000And I said, yeah, that's what happens.
02:58:06.000That's what happened to me in eighth grade.
02:58:08.000I fell way behind and I got behind a year, right?
02:58:34.000And the reason is because you go back to square one and you explain something and you take it step by step.
02:58:41.000And what happens with math, particularly, you get left behind.
02:58:45.000You know, you go to public school, they've got, here's what the teacher's got, this, here's what we've got to cover, this, this, this, and this.
02:59:30.000And I think one thing that's solely lacking is Sorely lacking in school is the concept that there's jobs that are available outside of what we think of as mainstream occupations.
02:59:52.000I'm not encouraging kids to become social media influencers.
02:59:56.000I'm not encouraging kids to become TikTokers or YouTubers, but you know how much money those fucking people make?
03:00:02.000If you're encouraging people to become lawyers, at what point in time do you encourage them to play video games professionally?
03:00:08.000Because there's a lot of fucking money in playing video games, and I'm not saying they should do that, but I'm saying there's a disdain for even becoming a stand-up comedian.
03:00:20.000Like, I remember when I was thinking about being a comedian, no one encouraged me.
03:01:51.000I had an English teacher that was really fun, and she gave you perspectives and thoughts on life itself that was just different than the way most—and everybody would talk about her.
03:02:00.000Like, you got to get—I forget her name.
03:02:48.000And then, of course, I just got into geometry just as a Area of interest itself.
03:02:53.000And that's when I discovered things like sacred geometry and, you know, when we talk about the pyramids and things like that, you know, and how geometry was used through the ages.
03:04:02.000But to let people know if they want to get more into your research or read any of this stuff or watch any of those videos, particularly the videos that we were talking about earlier on Atlantis, where's the best place?