On this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, we have a special guest on the show, Mike Cirelli. Mike is a former Marine Corps sniper and served with the elite United States Navy SEALs for twenty-five years. He talks about how he got his start in the military, how he became a sniper, and what it's like to be part of a SEAL team. We also talk about his dip problem, and why he thinks it's a good idea to get your teeth sucked out of your mouth. Also, we get into a little bit about Andy Stumpf and how he thinks he should be a SEAL Team 3 commander. Joe and Mike talk about how they first met each other and how they ended up on the same team, and how much they got wrong about each other. We also get into how they got their nicknames and what they do to keep up with the SEALs. And we get to hear a story about how one of the guys got grafted after 19 years in the Marine Corps. Thanks to our sponsor, Ajinomoto! Joe Rogans Experience! Check it out! Subscribe, Rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a review and tell a friend about what you think of the show! It helps us out there! Cheers, Joe and the boys! - The Rogans Podcast! Timestamps: 3:00 - - What's your favorite thing you like about the show? 5:30 - Do you like it? 6:00 | What do you don't like it more? 7:30 | How do you think it's funny? 8:00 9:40 | What's the worst thing you've ever heard of someone else's job? 11:30 12:40 - Is it better than it's better than yours? 15:40 16: What's it better? 17:10 | What are you looking forward to doing it more than someone else? 18:00 & 15:00 / 16:00 // 15: What do they think it s a good thing? 19:00/16: What would you want to do more than that? 21:40 // 17:00 + 17:20 22:10 22 :00 27:00 Is it a good day?
00:02:49.000Mike Cirelli, born in California as well, enlisted in the Marine Corps, was a recon Marine and a scout sniper, and eventually crossed over to the SEAL teams as an officer and retired after 20 years like Andy.
00:03:00.000We served at the same place, but I've got to tell you about the first time I met Andy.
00:03:06.000Because people ask me, like, what's Andy Stumpf like?
00:03:08.000Because I meet people that are like, oh, Andy Stumpf.
00:04:27.000So I forget the subject, but two of us left the room and I can't remember if I looked at him or he looked at me and he's like, Was that guy a dick?
00:04:37.000And I'm like, yeah, he was a major dick.
00:05:44.000Two combat deployments at a conventional SEAL team is four years.
00:05:48.000Because you got to do an 18 month workup, six month appointment, maybe they'll push you out to 12, depending on what's going on operationally.
00:05:55.000The deployments that I came back with was like three and a half years worth.
00:06:00.000So the velocity that I was getting the experience Was just crazy different in the compressed nature of it because it would be overseas for 90, back for 180. Overseas for 90, back for 180. And just constantly going and going and going and going.
00:06:14.000So about the same amount of time, but four times the amount of experience.
00:06:20.000I will say, the guys, I left SEAL Team 3 and I went to where he was coming from when I called back because they were on deployment in Afghanistan.
00:07:23.000How do the teams balance out that with camaraderie?
00:07:27.000Competitive with each other, but also camaraderie?
00:07:29.000How do you avoid the internal conflict?
00:07:33.000I think there's a line you don't go beyond.
00:07:39.000The civilian populace, one of the things that they totally lack is something called shared adversity that we have in spades.
00:07:45.000And with guys you rolled with for years, you could not see them for 10 years.
00:07:49.000You see them all of a sudden, it's like you saw each other last week.
00:07:52.000When you go through BUDS or you go through the hard training, because BUDS is not the end of the hard training, there's this homecoming belonging, this relationship esprit de corps built.
00:08:45.000But, you know, I might be on his back and he's trusting me.
00:08:48.000So if he's got knowledge, he's going to transfer that knowledge to me in training before we go to war to make sure that I'm the very best to cover his six.
00:08:55.000The thing about things like, whether it's SEALs or any high-level military operation group, whenever you're dealing with people that have done something that's extraordinarily difficult, there's like a rite of passage you guys have gone through that a lot of people think is missing from particularly young men in our society and culture.
00:09:18.000There's no real moment where you recognize that you've done something incredibly difficult and you've actually become a man.
00:09:26.000It almost seems like society is pushing it the other direction where that shouldn't exist or it should be avoided.
00:09:31.000Even with the teams, one of the things I hear is this narrative that it's too difficult.
00:09:36.000I think you got to consider the source on that one.
00:09:39.000You know, like the most recent thing that came out, I'm sure you saw this, Mike, was there was a video of training that occurred.
00:09:46.000I'm pretty sure it was on San Clemente Island because that's where they CS gassed us.
00:09:50.000And there's guys who are outside and they're getting exposure to CS gas.
00:09:55.000Which I remember before I joined the military, if you look at any movie, probably up to and including like Full Metal Jacket, or if you even went into a recruiting office, exposure to CS gas is something that you do in basic training.
00:10:07.000Except, I don't know if the Air Force does it.
00:10:21.000You go into a room, you have a gas mask on, and they make you take it off and they make you either do something or say something or talk so you can't hold your breath.
00:10:31.000Of students that are outside, which, one, is actually a huge advantage because it dissipates quickly, especially if there's any kind of wind, and they're getting gassed.
00:10:38.000And there's already issues with the story that I'm telling because, one, who the fuck is filming this?
00:10:42.000Just the fact that there was somebody there who was filming this thing and it made it onto the internet in any way, shape, and form is a mistake in and of itself.
00:10:50.000So it couldn't have been someone who was in the program.
00:11:00.000And you get a very basic indoctrination into small unit tactics, rifle, weaponry, explosives, you throw some grenades, you do some underwater demo, but you're out there for like the last tight four weeks of training.
00:11:16.000The students, I mean, I don't even remember having a cell phone when I went through actually in 97. I'd be shocked if they're allowed to have cell phones on there.
00:13:23.000Navy launches investigation into SEAL tear gas video.
00:13:27.000Newly surfaced video showing Navy SEAL recruits being tear gassed is adding to scrutiny, adding to scrutiny over elite military units training practices.
00:13:38.000I mean, you can speak to this, please.
00:13:40.000Because you have to have brutal training.
00:14:34.000Horrendous to lose your son in any way, shape, or form.
00:14:36.000I don't want to take anything away from that.
00:14:38.000But from that incident, this is like another layer on top of the onion on something that people were already talking about, which you combine the two and it just seems like, for one, I wish SEALs could get the fuck out of the news in general.
00:14:51.000But since it starts, you know, they're layering on top of each other, it can seem to be a bigger deal than it is.
00:17:22.000The branch in San Diego was never held accountable for, let's just say, bad practices that they implemented while trying to bring Eddie down.
00:17:37.000And they're looking to make a name for themselves as well.
00:17:39.000And in fact, I was investigated the day I retired by the same crew of people from NCIS San Diego, only six months previous to when the whole Eddie Gallagher thing sort of came on.
00:17:53.000But, I mean, they tapped or they put a bug into Eddie's lawyers' emails so that they could read all the documents coming into that lawyer.
00:19:13.000What I'll say is this as somebody who was a BUDS instructor, There is an evolution sheet and matrix for every single thing that happens in training, to include remediating the students.
00:19:23.000When they fall short of a standard, there are limits to how long you can remediate them for.
00:19:29.000There's limits to the exercises that you can use.
00:19:32.000There is an oversight matrix of who's in charge of the evolution, what's the ratio going to be student to instructor.
00:19:39.000There is somewhere a matrix and evolution sheet for exposure to CS gas in BUDS. There is absolutely no way that those instructors are like, hey Mike, you doing anything tomorrow too?
00:20:25.000My answer when people ask me about students who have died in BUDS, and I think there have been 10 in the history of BUDS since the 50s, is that it needs to continue to happen.
00:20:34.000I don't want anybody to lose their life.
00:20:36.000But if the training becomes so exceedingly safe that that's not a potential, then we're not serving people in that training and we're not preparing them for what the battlefield is going to expect.
00:21:19.000And we're going the opposite direction.
00:21:21.000There is a diversity, equity, and inclusion chief at the Pentagon now who wrote a book that basically called the first responders menaces and basically painted them as white supremacists.
00:22:07.000Is that just people who are blissfully unaware because they're on the outside?
00:22:11.000How does that ever get in to the point where you're considering things like elite groups like the SEALs having to deal with this sort of politically correct nonsense?
00:22:24.000Personally, I think the policy of transparency that was made or popularized by President Obama, and I'm not attacking President Obama.
00:22:33.000He was aggressive on the war on terror.
00:22:35.000He made a lot of aggressive decisions, but there are certain communities where transparency, like the CIA special operations, is not the best policy, is they should remain in the shadows, and there should be Just public trust that we are doing the right things.
00:22:52.000We don't want anyone to pass away in training.
00:22:58.000But we also don't want to advertise our capabilities or our training or capacities to potential military peers like China or Russia.
00:23:09.000So, the transparency for me, propaganda, do it with the regular military, keep special operations out of the bubble.
00:23:16.000But even doing it with the regular military, like, why?
00:23:19.000I don't have an answer for how it started infiltrating other than it seems to be the groundswell.
00:23:25.000I mean, the military is just a group of people from normal societies, so I don't think it's uncommon to see things that our society is dealing with working their way into the military, but I do hope that there is a backstop against it.
00:23:38.000And in my mind, everything needs to be worked in a reverse direction.
00:23:42.000What is it we're asking these people to do in the real world execution of their job?
00:23:46.000Now let's work our training pipeline to prepare those people for that.
00:23:49.000I don't know where the progressive ideology falls into that or how it infects that.
00:24:37.000But if you take a team of 50 people, you're going to have your bottom 10%, and you're going to have your top 10% and everybody else in between.
00:25:01.000Inside of the SEAL community, people think, oh, it's only people who lean to the right.
00:25:04.000And I would say there are more people who lean to the right, but there are plenty who lean to the left.
00:25:08.000And we're talking – I mean I remember team room conversations about religion, about politics, about sexuality.
00:25:14.000And there was never like, yep, that's it, and we all slapped the table.
00:25:18.000Let me say, well, to this point, I wrote a book about this called The Talent War, how special operations and great organizations went on talent.
00:25:24.000It was about performance and about building high-performing teams and how the special operations goes about it.
00:25:28.000Because when you think about it, in the private sector, people hire you based on how much industry experience you usually have.
00:25:35.000Well, in our profession, I can't go to a high school or a college and say, who here has special operations experience?
00:25:43.000So by nature, the assessment and selection process, which we're talking about, basic underwater demolition school, is hire for character, train for skill.
00:25:51.000And that's why we push these men and women to their limits, their mental and physical limits, because that's where true character emerges.
00:26:07.000You know, one of the former commandants in the Marine Corps just wrote an article and basically was arguing, keep your hands off the military.
00:26:15.000The military runs off a different set of ideologies.
00:26:19.000Those ideologies are conformity to a degree, which conformity is not always a bad thing.
00:26:24.000You know, if you have a baseball team, you want some conformity to SOPs, standard operating procedures.
00:26:32.000So in this training, we break people down in their individual selves and we build them up as a team player, where the public sector sort of Let's say they trend towards individuality, which is not bad either.
00:27:53.000But the most lethal warriors I knew who no one will ever know in the public We're kind, empathetic, respectful, and they loved their fellow man.
00:29:07.000I think it's harder to tell the full story when you have a time compressed medium to tell that story in.
00:29:14.000If you want to have people put their butts into seats and it's the last 20 plus years of sustained combat operation, you're probably going to make a movie about things exploding, bullets flying over your head.
00:29:26.000You might dive into a little bit of the storyline on some people's lives, but it's an easier Unfortunately, story and narrative to tell than to truly unpack what it takes to live in that world for that long.
00:29:40.000That's probably the only exposure, other than things like this, like a podcast where people actually get to sit down and talk, that the only exposure these people ever have, if they don't know anyone that was in the SEALs or anyone that was Green Beret or Ranger or what have you, they don't know.
00:29:55.000So, you know, maybe they read an article in the Times like, oh, these people are assholes.
00:30:03.000We need to dial this back like I have to do at the office.
00:30:06.000Like, they don't have a comprehension of, like, what is necessary to get the job done or what you guys have to do.
00:30:12.000Yeah, if I could rewind the clock back to 2010, my last deployment, and you take somebody who says that the training that we were talking about is unnecessary.
00:30:21.000Like, why don't you just get in my hip pocket for tonight?
00:30:23.000Why don't you just come with me on target and at the end of this we're gonna do a debrief and you let me know how difficult you think the training should be so you can perform at this level in an environment that might take your life and they're gonna go okay well I don't know what they would say but I would assume they would say yeah you guys need to make this as really as hard as possible and I'm totally good with you gassing people and maybe you should gas them for longer many more times and you should do this it would blow their fucking mind what is actually required to be able to perform in that environment And I can't fault them for not understanding that because
00:31:06.000And you've heard the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to stand by and do nothing.
00:31:14.000I mean, we saw ISIS throwing gay men from seven-story roofs with the people in the town watching.
00:31:24.000There is evil, and unfortunately, sometimes you've got to go to hell to send somebody to hell.
00:31:37.000I watched an interview where you said war leaves a fingerprint.
00:31:41.000It leaves a fingerprint and that fingerprint will always be a part of our DNA. And I question some of the things we did and the outcomes of the war.
00:31:51.000And I even went back as a BUDS instructor.
00:31:54.000I was the junior officer training course director for the SEALs at graduated BUDS. And my job in one month was to turn them into ground force commanders, GFCs as we call it.
00:32:26.000When you go back and actually, because you go through it the first time and it's so abstract because it's just day after day after day.
00:32:32.000And you go back as an instructor and there's not enough instructors to, in just first phase, which is where Hell Week occurs, they augment from all the other phases because it's a 24-hour training pipeline from a Sunday till about Friday afternoon.
00:32:45.000And you watch people who are on the verge of death.
00:33:40.000And I, even going through it because I was a prior recon Marine, so I thought I knew what they were looking for, made a judgment on some of the kids that were going through Buds with me.
00:33:48.000One of them was a little Asian kid who was sort of passive and unassuming.
00:35:35.000You're constantly being told to do things.
00:35:37.000I mean, the main tools that you have at BUDS is the beach, so you have sand, which is obviously an amazing abrasive, and the cold water.
00:35:44.000And the main tools at BUDS are telephone poles, which are super low-tech, these IBSs, inflatable boats small, which is an air-filled rubber boat carried by three on each side and an officer in the back, generally, because As Mike knows from his career, they're just generally doing less than the enlisted.
00:36:20.000I would describe, and this is my description, not anything that I think the Navy would agree with, but I would describe Bud's training as an ability to look at who somebody really is.
00:36:32.000When you're at the lowest point you ever thought you've been at.
00:37:04.000And you can think somebody as hard as hell, you know, at the beginning stages of BUDS, and then everything changes in that one week.
00:37:12.000And, you know, what we found, personally, this is my anecdotal sort of learning, is that people who faced a lot of obstacles early in life before getting to SEAL training...
00:37:23.000Usually have the scar tissue of resilience, and they do pretty damn well.
00:37:28.000And the thing about Buds is you don't know anyone's story.
00:37:31.000You know when no one's—I mean, yeah, you may know that Andy's from the Santa Cruz area and Mike's from Palo Alto area, but you don't know their background.
00:37:42.000You know, I know Johnny for 15 years and then we finally hear on the Jocko podcast where he sort of goes into his background that his dad was killed by police and he was sort of, you know, he's the one that called the police on that day.
00:37:56.000His dad had a standoff and he blames himself.
00:38:01.000But had I known that before making an assessment of Johnny, I would have realized that that kid at the time had been through a lot more in life than I had.
00:38:15.000How else could you know what someone's capable of?
00:38:19.000I mean, unless you really test them like that, it doesn't seem like there's another way.
00:38:24.000Otherwise, like you were saying, you don't know who they are until they're under that kind of stress.
00:38:30.000And for clarity, the selection process is not perfect.
00:38:33.000There are still people that make their way through.
00:38:35.000I have seen people who have been fully made it through the multi-year training pipeline, who have been awarded their Trident, maybe even done a combat deployment.
00:39:22.000It's a long entrance exam, and it's the longest behavioral interview probably in the world.
00:39:28.000And to Andy's point, we still get it wrong, but that's the entrance exam.
00:39:33.000And then the next part of your career, the next, you know, potential five years, 20 years, 30 years, it then sort of transforms into performance.
00:39:44.000Can you do the tactical and technical side?
00:39:46.000We already know you have the mental toughness, the resilience, but there's a lot of guys that graduate BUDS that just, quite frankly, to his point, this talent distribution, this normal distribution, this bell curve.
00:39:57.000I mean, we've got our top 2%, and they're completely in a different realm.
00:40:01.000And then you've got the 98%, and you can split that into multiple tranches of the high performers, middle-of-the-road performers, and then we call it the bottom of the barrel.
00:40:12.000And when you get out of BUDS, what is the process, like once you graduate, once you're out of BUDS, what's the process from there out?
00:40:35.000It changed it to a 5326 for an enlisted person, which means you're a SEAL. When you show up on, like, you're now officially a SEAL. When I went through, it was BUDS, it was Static Line Jump School out at Fort Banning.
00:40:48.000We checked into our team and they put us through another six months to a year of training and then you went around all of the departments and you tested in front of your peers and you were doing calculations for a demo.
00:40:58.000You were planning a dive with currents.
00:41:14.000I didn't understand the words that were even on the page.
00:41:17.000So each team kind of did their own thing.
00:41:19.000And, you know, post 9-11, a lot of things got course corrected, and I think this is one of them.
00:41:24.000They realized it's not a good idea to have SEAL Team 5, which is literally a nine-iron golf shot away from SEAL Team 3, doing different training.
00:41:31.000Probably better if we all get the same product at the end of the day.
00:41:34.000So now when you graduate BUDS, you go to a program called, it's SQT, SEAL Qualification Training, which is going to be like another maybe two years, depending on when you time it, and you go through cold weather training.
00:41:47.000Jungle training, desert training, everything, comms, all of that stuff.
00:41:53.000And at the end of that, they graduate as a class, they're all awarded their trident, so they all have the same baseline level of training, and then you go to your SEAL team.
00:42:00.000So you're two years into a pipeline before you show up for your first day on the job at a SEAL team.
00:42:16.000Is it difficult to get people to – is it like – do you have the same amount of people that are trying to become SEALs now as there was in the past or is it – I would say so.
00:42:44.000There is something to say for Hollywood.
00:42:47.000And, you know, the Paramount Plus show, you know, SEAL team, they are a funnel filler for recruitment, for high-performing kids coming out of high school or college that want to give it a shot to see if they have what it takes to become a SEAL, an Army Special Forces Green Beret,
00:43:08.000The whole point is we hope the next generation coming behind us is better, faster, stronger than we were.
00:43:15.000It's interesting you ask that, though, because in one of those articles, and I believe it was around, I read it in an article, it was around the young man's death.
00:43:22.000It was talking about the attrition rate, you know, the number of people that are making it through.
00:43:26.000And it would appear that the attrition rate, or the number of people making it through, is decreasing, which gives you an opportunity to look at that in two different directions.
00:43:36.000I know I have my take on it, and then there seemed to be a more popular take that was being talked about.
00:43:40.000And the more popular take was, well, this training is too hard.
00:43:45.000The way I look at it is, let's assume that the training has actually been the same largely since its inception.
00:43:51.000I think it was in like the 40s or 50s when they switched from being the UDT into the SEAL teams.
00:43:57.000If the training has actually stayed the same and we're using the same fucking telephone pole logs, I wouldn't be shocked if we were still using some of the actual same telephone pole logs from back in the day.
00:44:07.000Then what is it that is actually changing?
00:44:10.000And the answer is the people who are attempting the training.
00:44:13.000So instead of vilifying the training, maybe we ought to take a hard look at our society, and maybe the curriculum is doing just fine.
00:44:19.000But as a society, we're getting softer and softer and softer with less resilience.
00:44:25.000And that to me explains a lot more the differences in attrition than the actual curriculum itself.
00:44:31.000It's hard to argue that that's not the case in terms of the people that you see today.
00:44:36.000It seems like today people demand more.
00:44:42.000They feel like they're entitled to more.
00:44:44.000And they feel like they want to work less.
00:44:46.000I mean that's a narrative that you see pushed over and over and over again, which is the exact opposite you want.
00:44:51.000For any kind of extraordinary achievement.
00:44:54.000That attitude is going to keep you from ever being extraordinary at anything.
00:44:59.000If you think that the world owes you something, you think that you're entitled to something, you think that you're working too hard.
00:45:04.000The people that excel in any endeavor in life are the people that are willing to work the smartest, the hardest, and the people that are able to get out of their own fucking way and realize that they're task-oriented.
00:45:18.000They get the job done, whatever the fuck it is.
00:45:20.000People that concentrate on, and this is something that's enforced in our society, people that concentrate on the negative aspects of things.
00:45:29.000Like that, you know, why is it so hard?
00:47:18.000And then they end up going to a mat and actually objectively working it out, and then they generally high-five afterwards, and they fucking move on.
00:47:43.000I think what I was told is that he essentially told someone that they should go kill themselves.
00:47:47.000Which, again, that was told to me second or third hand, but that would fall into, like, the bullying policy.
00:47:54.000Did he tell another elite jiu-jitsu fighter that they should kill themselves?
00:47:57.000I would be shocked if it wasn't another elite jiu-jitsu fighter.
00:48:00.000And I'm not even positive that's what happened, but to me, in my head, I'm like, okay, that would probably make sense if they were to take that action.
00:48:06.000How many times did we tell that to each other when you do something embarrassing?
00:48:09.000I told that to you when we were out there.
00:48:53.000The people that he's doing this to are also people like that.
00:48:57.000Now, you could be that person who wants every martial artist to behave like a noble warrior who's out there testing their skills with respect and dignity.
00:49:07.000Or you could be the guy that fucking fills up arenas because people want to come to see him.
00:49:15.000Like the elite of the elite who talk a ton of shit and there's a psychological warfare aspect that I don't think, I think non-competitors don't understand that.
00:50:06.000Or if you do like it, and you're like me, and you don't have a problem with it at all, and you think it's funny, you know, you should follow him.
00:50:13.000I mean, this is not a terrible person.
00:50:32.000It worries me, though, that, you know, obviously, Zuckerberg maybe replaced him with somebody else, because that guy literally could probably throw the switches at these companies.
00:50:43.000But what does it matter whether or not I like the way he conducts himself online?
00:50:47.000Like, I'm super appreciative of the rights that we have in this country, but I've yet to come one that says you have the right not to be offended at any point in your life.
00:50:55.000You should be offended at some things.
00:52:18.000That's fucking funny, man, because that fucks with a guy.
00:52:21.000When the guy's getting up in the morning and eating oats and drinking distilled water and fucking jogging up hills and this dude's doing blow.
00:52:27.000Looking in the mirror as you're brushing her teeth like, fuck!
00:53:36.000These variables need to be taken into consideration when you apply tactics and strategy and how you choose to, you know, obviously he has a different amount of force in each shot and that is also the case too.
00:53:47.000I talked to Max Holloway about that once.
00:53:50.000We were talking about Jose Aldo, and I was asking him, like, he knew that Aldo was fading after, like, one or two rounds, and he said, it's power.
00:53:59.000He goes, those guys have more power than me.
00:54:01.000He goes, they're hitting harder, you know, and that shit takes up a lot of energy.
00:57:50.000I could see the merit in having a structure like a union.
00:57:54.000I just don't see fighters going along with it.
00:57:58.000Because, like, let's say, like, a big fight's coming up, right?
00:58:01.000Like, Alex Pajera is fighting Israel Adesanya.
00:58:06.000If Pajera gets injured, and he can't fight Adesanya, and, you know, there's a bunch of people that are saying, like, I want to fight, and then there's, well, you have to get paid the same amount as Pajera, this is our union dues, and then someone comes along and says, listen, I'll fucking take that shot for half that money,
00:58:22.000because I want to be the fucking champion, and I want that opportunity.
00:58:25.000You're going to get fighters that cross that line.
00:58:27.000And if there's no union, that makes it easier to do.
00:58:30.000Could you conceivably form a union where people would get paid the correct amount?
01:02:46.000He is a giant chimpanzee with a psychotic mind.
01:02:50.000He's a beautiful human being and a great American.
01:02:52.000I was going to say, he's one of the kindest people I've ever met, and he is so ridiculously capable and dangerous.
01:02:58.000When I asked that question, that's exactly who I was thinking of.
01:03:01.000Because when I moved to Austin in 2015, there was a workout going on at Onnit, where they were raising money for some veteran charity.
01:03:08.000And we had a mutual friend who basically had told Tim about me and, hey, he's in the military, and he just comes up and he wraps his arms around me.
01:04:00.000He went to a doctor, because UFC sent him to this doctor.
01:04:04.000After one of his fights, because he had a fractured orbital, and the doctor examines him and then calls the UFC and goes, where did you find this guy?
01:04:15.000And he goes, yeah, he's fucking amazing.
01:04:16.000He goes, no, no, no, no, you don't understand.
01:05:17.000You know, the elite wrestlers get better food, they eat more often, and so it, you know, motivates the people below him who they're training with every day to beat them and get better.
01:06:07.000And it rattled Tim, and Tim to this day said that he made a mental error getting upset and flustered about it, and it really cost him in the fight.
01:06:16.000But also, he fought Yoel Romero, and Tim wound up losing that fight.
01:06:20.000But he's got a legitimate argument that they should have stopped that fight.
01:06:51.000So a gentleman in England who caught, it's not the tip of my tongue, who caught Cassius Clay when he was young with a vicious left hook and dropped him.
01:07:00.000And Angelo Dundee cut his gloves and they had to change his gloves.
01:07:52.000And then finally, I want to say it's a legit 20, 30 seconds later, Yoel gets up, and Yoel eventually catches Tim with that right hand and finishes him.
01:09:37.000I think once, I mean, obviously not everybody trains, but once you start training a little bit, you have an appreciation for how hard it is to actually hold down somebody your size, probably the same skill level.
01:09:49.000Like, the cage work, it can look boring, but again, now they understand what's going on in the fight for the underhook and the head, you're like, oh shit, this is badass.
01:09:56.000You know, there's another argument, too, that I think they should add weapons.
01:10:00.000Like, there's a lot of shit that you can't do on the—not weapons, like knives and shit.
01:10:03.000Hold on, I was going to say, are we talking a golf club?
01:10:05.000What are we talking— I mean knees on the ground, knees to the head, knees to the head on the ground, kicks to the head on the ground.
01:10:13.000They're doing that in one FC and they're doing it in a cage and a lot of people think it shouldn't happen in a cage because there's times where you can't get away and you're trapped and someone could soccer kick you or stomp you.
01:10:27.000If the problem is the cage, I think they should eliminate the cage.
01:10:30.000I don't think they should eliminate those weapons.
01:10:31.000Because there's positions where guys go into where it appears like they're safe.
01:10:36.000Like if a guy's in a turtle position and you've got like a head and arm and you're above him, there's an amazing option to knee someone in the head and stop the fight.
01:11:20.000It's like this is the last bastion of chaos in combat sports.
01:11:25.000And to eliminate certain weapons, I think they eliminated some things initially in the beginning because they felt like those things were too dangerous.
01:11:32.000That's the reason to this day you can't do a 12 to 6 elbow.
01:11:35.000Which makes zero sense, because it's not even the most strong elbow.
01:11:39.000The most powerful elbow is actually an elbow where you drive down, like, to the side.
01:11:43.000The most powerful elbow, I believe, is like this.
01:11:46.000It's not like this, because this is not necessarily the best move, like, kinetically.
01:11:53.000I think kinetically, the shoulder comes back and it's a downward elbow, probably has more force.
01:12:00.000Because this is still illegal in 2022. It's so dumb.
01:12:04.000And the reason why it was illegal, and Big John McCarthy talked about this, Big John, in the early days, you know, he was a martial artist, black belt in jiu-jitsu, and he had to go, and he was the referee.
01:12:14.000He had to go in front of these athletic commissions and talk to them about the sport and try to convince these people to approve it.
01:12:19.000And one of the things these fucking normies, they didn't like the fact that people could break bricks on TV. Like on ESPN, you see the karate demonstration.
01:12:28.000And you're like, well, we can't have that.
01:13:16.000They're buckled into their seat, and they start the fight while they're in a car, and they have to get out of the buckle and beat the shit out of each other.
01:14:17.000In his style of fighting, they incorporate headbutts.
01:14:21.000So he practices headbutts with the mitts.
01:14:24.000So he's like, his combinations involve headbutts.
01:14:27.000It's like crack, one, two, bam, headbutt, elbow, headbutt.
01:14:30.000Like he throws them in, in like technical combinations.
01:14:34.000So that would be good for him in there.
01:14:36.000The headbutts were a big part of Mark Coleman's early career, too, because he would get guys on the ground and he would get into their guard and fucking headbutt him in the face and punch him in the face.
01:15:45.000And especially, you know, actually, Tim Kennedy as well probably was very influential in the military saying, hey, listen.
01:15:52.000This sort of mixed martial arts approach to our job in the military is absolutely applicable even to prisoner handling.
01:16:00.000It would save lives because I've seen situations induced, and I think this happens sometimes with law enforcement as well, where you reach the limit of your tools.
01:16:11.000And you know as well as I do, if you apply too much pressure in certain places, people are going to freak the fuck out.
01:16:18.000And you probably could get compliance with a lot less force if you knew what you were doing.
01:17:19.000But there's also – you have to understand what the government contracting – Each person is selling their system and there's some politics, but it got better and better.
01:17:29.000I mean, where you were at, they were bringing in Rasputin.
01:17:33.000Now there's like a Matt's base dojo full-time coach.
01:18:11.000In the 17 years, one month shy of 17 years that I was in, it was not an emphasis.
01:18:16.000And again, I wish it had been more of an emphasis because I feel I'm so late to the curve finding jiu-jitsu at 40. I see these little kids.
01:18:24.000We were training today and there was a black belt rolling with an actual child.
01:18:29.000And I'm sitting there like, how soon until that little kid can whip my ass?
01:21:33.000I wrote about him in my book, and funny enough, and I know Johnny well, and we, again, came through BUDS, went to SEAL Team 3 together, we're together.
01:22:45.000I'm not great at geography but … Yeah.
01:22:47.000There's exceptional people in this world and the only way to find out if they're exceptional is to go through exceptional difficult scenarios and really tried and true.
01:22:57.000No one's just exceptional for no reason.
01:23:28.000It's not necessarily what I have read in print, because what I have in my own personal experience, Mike, I'd be curious to see your thoughts on this.
01:23:38.000Often times in the print medium, I find that they're coming at it from an angle.
01:23:43.000And they may, I don't know what necessarily their motivation may be.
01:23:47.000Sometimes I would even describe it as they have an axe to grind.
01:23:49.000And I don't know where that motivation comes from, from the axe to grind.
01:23:52.000But I think that transparency from this, like the SEAL community is not perfect.
01:23:58.000And I can only speak to the SEAL community that I served in.
01:24:03.000We could have evolved faster early on in the war.
01:24:07.000It's tough to evolve at the speed of war.
01:24:09.000It's very, very hard and we were behind.
01:24:12.000I don't think that criticism is a bad thing and I don't think that you have to be a SEAL to look at a program and say, hey, maybe you could look at doing something like this to improve it.
01:27:11.000And sometimes the Navy will just let them exit out of the military.
01:27:15.000But, dude, we put a precedence on leadership even then, even though, I mean, the two organizations that wrote the manual on leadership are the Army and the Marine Corps.
01:27:39.000And, you know, the funny part is every kid that comes out of BUDS has the potential to be a great SEAL. You know, the next step is who do they end up under as a mentor?
01:27:51.000Because we sometimes allow bad actors to stay in the community, and guess what they do?
01:27:56.000They impact the young SEALs below them.
01:27:58.000And the young SEALs, whatever they learn from them, believe that that is the standard and that's acceptable within the community.
01:29:02.000What has been asked of people in the military, like the execution of their normal job, and I'll speak only from the special operations perspective.
01:29:10.000You're operating at What I would describe the limits of the gray area, oftentimes, where decisions are going to be made in a super time compressed environment.
01:29:21.000Now I'm talking about like on target, super time compressed environment with extremely limited information and mistakes get made.
01:29:30.000And what I'll say is in every, I've worked with at least every military branch and probably every one of the special operations communities.
01:29:36.000If you spent only your time looking into the shadows, For things that if you were to measure against, are these above the board or below the board, did they meet the standard?
01:29:47.000And you're only looking for things that were below the board that didn't meet the standard.
01:30:33.000It's like this negative – the negative aspect of it, which does exist.
01:30:36.000I'll be the first person to say that not everything is perfect, but it's impossible to balance that with, hey, look at all these things where we did – because it just – you also don't want to share those things.
01:31:41.000But when people discuss that operation publicly, when they give interviews, when they write books about it, what's the general attitude in the teams about that?
01:31:52.000Man, I mean, we were just out doing some training with people that were directly attached to that unit.
01:31:59.000And I'm not going to say that this is the opinion of everybody, but I have some very close friends that were there that night, and it's not positive.
01:33:22.000Like, those guys started to drift apart, or so-and-so didn't like one another, and that story's sort of got embellished or sensationalized.
01:33:32.000And there was probably some animosity amongst those guys as years went on.
01:33:48.000So guys who get out and write books, it used to be those guys were kind of ostracized.
01:33:55.000I think to a degree some of them still are depending on the angle that you take.
01:33:58.000Jack Carr, good example, mutual friend.
01:34:01.000He is like a 98% nonfiction writer, 2% fiction, and it's beautiful because it falls into the fiction category, but it's so precise in so many ways, which I think is what people like about the books.
01:34:37.000But to my knowledge, he hasn't gotten any negative pushback, nor do I think he should because he's not trying to write the book of, hey, no shit, there I was.
01:34:47.000It's truth layered with fiction that tells a fucking fantastic story.
01:34:53.000And again, opinions are going to vary depending on who you talk to when it comes to people who write books.
01:35:40.000I know you got medically discharged, but I'm saying a lot of the guys that write those books, there I was and I single-handedly won the war.
01:35:47.000Usually serve two to three combat deployments, maybe four.
01:35:53.000And Jocko and Leif did a good job with extreme ownership.
01:36:05.000I hate the fact that it's so cliche I wrote a book, but actually the book I wrote was more about the Army Special Forces community and the process they had created.
01:36:14.000But when somebody writes a self-grandizing book about how great they were, that's where it goes wrong.
01:36:23.000And I've got a second book coming out January 10th, The Everyday Warrior, and it's a self-help book.
01:36:27.000But it's not about me, nor was the first book.
01:36:30.000To say guys can't write books that will benefit other people, like Dave Goggins wrote a book.
01:36:37.000Whether you love or hate Dave Goggins, the community is conflicted there too.
01:37:56.000But if somebody was going to threaten one of my brothers or sisters, then, God help me, I was going to step in and do whatever it took to annihilate them.
01:38:03.000But it's the same thing with your kids.
01:38:06.000You know, the highest form of compassion is accountability.
01:38:44.000Do I need to check my kit bag from this last race?
01:38:45.000No, we never served directly together.
01:38:47.000If you haven't stirred somebody's coffee with your dick at least once, I mean, do you really have any friends?
01:38:51.000How hot is this coffee and what's wrong with your dick?
01:38:53.000You can put ice cubes in it, Joe, or maybe you just rub it on the edge just to give it like, you know, it's like the little dusting of, you know, pumpkin spice on the top of the latte.
01:40:35.000And so I got a hip resurfacing, which is basically like a hip replacement for young people.
01:40:39.000And, dude, I was just going through depression sitting on the couch because that is a lot worse, the recovery, than a traditional hip replacement.
01:40:47.000And a buddy of mine, Fred Williams, who runs Complete Parachute Solutions, they basically train a good portion of our special operations in how to parachute, and he's a former SEAL himself.
01:41:40.000Like, I need to do more as a human being.
01:41:43.000And so, I had created sort of this proof of concept called Legacy Expeditions.
01:41:48.000Because I believe, you know, our Fallen, who I will speak volumes about, and in fact, I got a book for you that's coming out in November about Michael Monsoor, who was a SEAL who was awarded posthumously the Medal of Honor for jumping on a grenade and saving two SEALs.
01:42:05.000The SEAL to his right, three feet to his right.
01:42:08.000Is that their legacies die the second we stop telling their stories.
01:42:13.000And additionally, I also raised $200,000 for the kids of Extortion 17. Extortion 17 was the largest loss of life, single incident loss of life in Afghanistan.
01:43:36.000Carrie Mills was, on a Saturday morning, she got a knock on the door.
01:43:40.000And, you know, her son, Cash Mills, was 18 months old, can't remember his father, and all of a sudden, she's on her own with an 18-month-year-old.
01:43:51.000So one of the things beyond honoring their legacy and keeping their stories alive is honor their memory, educate their legacy.
01:43:59.000And we raise, and with this, what we have coming up, uh, triple seven expedition, which has never been done.
01:44:06.000Seven continents, seven skydives, seven days, folds of honor, uh, Educates the spouses and children of disabled and deceased military service members as well as first responders.
01:44:19.000And so we're trying to raise that $7 million to give scholarships to those kids to go to college, to go to trade school, things along those lines.
01:44:27.000But Andy and I... Man, I'm just so bored.
01:44:30.000I have fun with my job, leadership development and executive search, but there is just, you miss that thrill.
01:44:36.000And that's why I called Andy, who had also raised money for the SEAL Foundation on his record attempt.
01:44:45.000It's really hard to figure out what to do with any skill that you learned from our previous job that has any application in the outside world.
01:44:56.000Like the leadership stuff, I totally understand that.
01:46:00.000I have so many of those, but I never chose to wear them that much.
01:46:04.000And those are the names of people left behind.
01:46:07.000And all of the people that we served with and we worked with, it's so easy to look at the guy who's kitted up, who's boarding the helicopter, and think that that's the only person that's impacted with the death, or that person, when they get on target...
01:46:23.000The only reason they're successful is because of the training that they went through.
01:46:27.000And then from my own personal experience, that's not the case.
01:46:29.000It's a support network of your extended family.
01:46:32.000It's a support network if you're married to your significant other who are playing pickup basketball when you are on the other side of the earth in limited communication, doing shit that's really dangerous.
01:46:46.000At least from what I've seen, the military does a good job for a short period of time, but the military's job is to be forward-thinking, not looking in the rearview mirror.
01:46:55.000So eventually, the wheel continues to move on.
01:46:58.000And I can't think of a better way to A, honor the people that we served with, but B, continue to pass their legacy along by...
01:47:06.000Elevating what their kids are capable of doing through education.
01:47:09.000So that's – when he explained that to me, basically what he said was, hey, do you want to go do this jump?
01:47:13.000And then he told me all this other stuff later.
01:47:27.000I mean we're going to fly economy, try to get all over the world in seven days with the skydive in between, going through customs and all this stuff.
01:49:11.000You know where the spiritual part comes in is when I'm surrounded with these guys again, there is like this camaraderie, this homecoming and belonging.
01:49:19.000And whether some of the guys didn't know each other, they start making fun of each other and it's just like you're back with the tribe.
01:49:26.000And then we also want to train veterans who have never jumped, even amputees, the gift of flight, and get them trained up and dedicate a parachute to them so that, you know, whether they live in Omaha, Austin, LA, they can go on their own and they've got an outlet to just,
01:53:18.000Well, there's one thing to do the jumps.
01:53:21.000Which will be cool, but actually capturing everything that goes into it, I think it's way harder.
01:53:25.000The jumping, in my opinion, we haven't done this yet, is the easiest part.
01:53:30.000Like, oh, okay, gravity works, checked it many times, get out over the DZ, land on the DZ, but then everything else that goes in between, weather, aircraft, like, that's actually the hard part.
01:59:54.000It always comes back towards the mountains and most days, depending on the wind, it is going to be going back towards the west and it looks the same, you land the same, the landing pattern is the same.
02:00:05.000There was a group, a large group of people who paid a substantial amount of money to go to Iceland and it was pretty readily apparent that the net, if you will, the safety net that existed Was non-existent or barely there.
02:00:22.000Things, you know, inability to talk to an aircraft, inability to talk to the jumpers once they were on the ground.
02:00:30.000Varying levels of experience from low hundreds, like low 100s jumps up until I think one of the guy there had like 20,000 jumps.
02:00:38.000And I have been around enough people and have done enough jumping and watched people getting hurt that, again, I wasn't worried about my safety and I wasn't worried about Mike's safety because I knew my background.
02:00:50.000But after watching what happened the first day and then somebody getting hurt on the first jump of the second day and then some stuff that transpired in an aircraft and we jumped into a location where the altimeter settings were incorrect based off the information.
02:01:05.000So I got to the ground and my altimeter read negative 750 feet.
02:01:46.000And also, by the way, on the reserve parachute, there's a computer with a small pyrotechnic charge that has essentially a razor blade that cuts your reserve parachute if it senses a barometric pressure, I believe, barometric pressure speed and altitude criteria.
02:02:01.000And these things have, like, hundreds of documented saves.
02:02:04.000Unconscious skydiver, the thing goes off, your reserve comes out, and at least you land under a reserve parachute.
02:02:11.000But if you're going to be jumping into a place, let's say you were supposed to land 750 feet higher, and now all of a sudden you're going to land somewhere that's 300, you know, sea level, which is essentially what we ended up doing, both the computer in your reserve parachute and the altimeter on your wrist are presenting information to you that is incorrect.
02:02:30.000So when I thought I was at, or if somebody thought they were at their normal pole altitude, say, of 3,000 feet, they're actually at 2,250.
02:02:38.000Let's say they have a malfunction and you normally will give yourself a certain amount of time to work through that.
02:02:42.000You could easily burn through the criteria for your reserve to fire and the next thing you know you have dual entanglement with both canopies out and that's how people die.
02:03:13.000I'm glossing over a lot of things to try to be as kind as possible to paint a broad picture though but it had reached for me when we got onto the ground like my safety go no go.
02:03:21.000I was absolutely just done with what was happening and again I was just I didn't want to see anybody else get hurt.
02:03:26.000It's a dangerous enough activity as it is so one of the organizers happened to be there and I had one of my you know about every decade falling short of how I should actually talk to people and yeah let them know exactly how I felt.
02:04:25.000And he jumps, and so I go out after him.
02:04:28.000It begs a point, like, if your mom ever asks, hey, if your friends jump out off a bridge or perfectly good airplane, are you going to do it?
02:04:45.000We'll run every expedition from here forth because we just do it in a way—that's the one thing I love about the military is we just mitigate risk, man.
02:04:52.000We go through the checklist as mundane as that may seem or prescribed as it may be, but that's why we have so, you know, very few fatalities in our operations compared to, let's say, the civilian skydiving world.
02:05:29.000And so to come to find out that there actually should never have been briefed an offset for the DZ, the altimeter should have just been set for zero, it highlighted the lack of structure and communication in the chain of command of that organization.
02:05:42.000Each individual aircraft load was largely operating on their own.
02:05:46.000And there's some inherent danger in that, of having something that is actually set, briefed, this is the standard.
02:05:53.000I mean, the military can get very overkill sometimes with briefing and risk mitigation, but there's a reason for it.
02:05:59.000And the reason is they've hurt people by not doing that.
02:06:04.000Did you talk about day one and how 75% of all the first four loads missed the DZ? Yeah, so we were on the first aircraft.
02:06:12.000The second aircraft, I think the closest jumper, landed three miles from us, to include people landing about five miles away over a river that had a water temperature that was one to two degrees above freezing because it was glacier melt.
02:08:11.000Soup to nuts, an American English idiom that conveys the meaning of from beginning to end, derived from the description of a full course dinner.
02:09:26.000I know too many people and have seen the detritus that's left behind when shit goes south.
02:09:34.000I'd rather make an impact in their life.
02:09:36.000I consider what I personally did overseas to be utterly and meaningly useless in the grand scheme of things, but I think helping those people out has a greater value than I can describe.
02:09:46.000I was just happy to be there with the team and watching these guys display selfless valor on a nightly basis.
02:10:18.000Hopefully it'll show a different side, as we talked about in Hollywood, painting us a certain way.
02:10:23.000It'll show a different side of the military veterans and the special operators we know and who they are, and show the professional side, again, the empathy, the respect.
02:10:33.000That's important to us, that this thing comes out and tells those stories the right way.
02:10:39.000It's something their families could be proud of.
02:10:42.000Alright, so one more time, the website?
02:10:45.000777.givesmart.com And if somebody wants that million dollar seat, contact us at lrobinson at foldsofhonor.com That's lrobinson at foldsofhonor.com And hell,
02:11:01.000we're still taking sponsors to fund this thing, but it's a go.
02:11:07.000And then we have to sit in Antarctica for a little while.
02:11:11.000Before we can get the jump in, and we're still trying to contact American Airlines to get assistance or get FedEx to fly in a plane and pick us up in Antarctica.
02:11:21.000I think I'm having dinner with the CEO on Friday or Thursday.
02:11:24.000If we get that tandem slot, do I have to do the tandem slot?
02:13:33.000And that's why the recovery is a lot longer than a traditional hip replacement where they go through the thigh and they just move the muscles apart.
02:13:54.000So, I can't get into the specifics, but eventually, if he wears that out, and that's lasted, now it's relatively young, a new procedure, only the last few decades, some people have lasted 25 years, but if he's still fighting...
02:15:41.000I mean, you're doing the in-home small movements for about a month and a half, and then you go to physical therapy, but they want you to stay away from any running or major deadlifting or things like that for about four to six months.
02:16:38.000I remember trainers at some point later in our SEAL careers are like, hey guys, get your five mile run in and then that's good for the week.
02:16:46.000Like, focus on higher-level training and save your joints.
02:17:30.000He had an ACL done just about less than a year ago, I want to say.
02:17:36.000Dr. Kirk Parsley, who was a SEAL that became a doctor, and he was the doctor to the West Coast, so the Navy's made him a doctor similar to Johnny Kim.
02:17:44.000He said the average SEAL, and this sounds extremely high to me, throughout a 20-year career goes through 11 surgeries.
02:19:02.000I can tell that there's no end to the journey.
02:19:04.000Nothing that actually happens on the mat matters unless you choose to make it matter and derive your self-worth from that, which I think would probably lead to having pictures like that out there because you're going to take stuff too far.
02:19:17.000You know, the thing is you getting into it when you're in your 40s is better because you have a better understanding of your vulnerability and also your ego.
02:19:29.000It's not about winning each and every interaction.
02:19:31.000And in fact, if you try to win each and every interaction, you probably won't get better because you'll be so defensive and you'll be so focused on trying to protect yourself and win that you'll never learn new skills because you won't open up enough.
02:19:46.000And I want to do it when I'm 60. Yeah, well, pros and cons to picking it up in my 40s.
02:19:55.000I think we talked about this last time.
02:19:56.000So they're opening that camp up to 500 people this year.
02:20:00.000It was 350 last year, and it's the coolest thing ever because you get to see people in their 20s who have been doing jiu-jitsu since they were four, and they laugh at you, and you're just like, motherfuckers.
02:20:12.000So you have an example of both of those things.
02:20:16.000But I think for me, the safest bet to continue forward, and I try to take this approach even when there, because there, you want to talk about unknown looks?
02:20:24.000There's no way you could, well, I guess you could probably roll with everybody who's there, but...
02:20:27.000You would be really, really exhausted.
02:20:30.000You get to see all of those looks, but at the end of the day, none of it actually matters if you're just there to learn.
02:20:36.000And that's the approach that I take to it.
02:20:39.000Spoiler alert, I just turned 45 last week.
02:20:42.000World champion is not going to ever be on my...
02:20:46.000But I'd really like to have a 60-year-old still on the mat and can still be competitive to whatever degree would be expected at a 60-year-old.
02:20:54.000Is the love of the sport, love of the knowledge getting better?
02:20:59.000That, to me, all trumps whether or not you win or lose.
02:21:03.000Because I think the number one way to lose would be sitting at an operating table like that.
02:21:12.000My coach has said, you know, when you get a new belt, one of the best things that you can do, because I can tell you this from personal experience, that imposter syndrome is super real.
02:21:20.000So if you get a belt, go and enter a competition because you're going to have somebody likely at your age, at your weight, at your belt, and you can feel it out with somebody who is not in your position.
02:21:31.000Because you know the game for most people in your gym.
02:21:34.000Imposter syndrome, pretty much my entire SEAL career.
02:21:53.000They're doing a lot of great stuff though with neck and spine now.
02:21:56.000They can go into the actual disc itself and inject stem cells and they're having a fantastic response from that.
02:22:02.000People actually regenerate disc tissue, which is really amazing.
02:22:06.000So it alleviates a lot of impingements and a lot of pinched nerves and a lot of bulging discs and shit like that.
02:22:13.000Yeah, it's a great time now for biologics, for, you know, the intervention of, you know, stem cells, mesenchymal stem cells, injecting them into areas and getting some pretty fantastic healing that just wasn't available in the past.
02:22:26.000You think they'll ever let the stuff that happens down in chips that happen in the U.S.? I fucking hope so.
02:22:43.000I think there's probably pressure from pharmaceutical drug companies that would lose money if people developed methods to treat people where they didn't need painkillers and didn't need anti-inflammatories.
02:22:57.000I mean, it would affect the bottom line.
02:23:00.000I mean, that sounds gross and evil, but I think there's a legitimate concern.
02:23:08.000You know, I mean, the idea that they're doing it to protect people is nonsense because you don't have a lot of people that are doing this overseas and doing it in Colombia and where have you and getting fucked up from it.
02:26:08.000We're going to do, obviously, we'll do as much social stuff as we can do along the way, limited by connectivity.
02:26:13.000But I think there's a plan for that as well, too.
02:26:16.000But hopefully between the combination of the actual event itself, the documentary, and it's just, I mean, it's really just a matter of eyeballs.
02:26:22.000You know, as many eyeballs as you can get on something.
02:26:24.000Okay, and Andy, give out your social media, too.
02:26:28.000It's just my name, Andy Stumpf, the number 212, because some asshole has Andy Stumpf.