In this episode, the guys talk about how to get jacked in your 40s, The Liver King, and the controversial question of if ab implants are real or not. Also, we discuss the controversial topic of whether or not the liver king is a natural jacker or if he's on steroids. We also talk about the recent video of the Liver King that went viral and the controversy surrounding his claims that he's a "natural" jacker. We finish up the episode with a quick Q&A from the guys on the topic of ab implants and etching. Stay tuned for Part 2 of this episode coming soon! Cheers, The Guys - The Jerks - Derek Videll Don t forget to SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review! If you like what you hear, please give us a review and a review on iTunes and tell a friend about what you think of the podcast! We'll be looking out for you in the next episode! - Cheers! - Derek and the Jerks! Don't Tell a Friend About This Podcast! Timestamps: 4:00 - How to Get Jacked in Your 40s? 5:15 - What is a Natural Jacked? 6:30 - Is it possible to get bigger? 7:00 8:20 - Is there a difference between natural vs. Synthetic abs? 9:00- Is there any truth behind the hype? 11:30- Is it's possible? 16: Is it real or fake? 17:00 Is it natural? 18:40 - Can you get fat? 19:40- Does it really matter? 21:10 - Is he a natural or artificial? 22:00 Can he be fake or not? 25:00 Does he really have abs like that? 27:00 Do you have a problem? 26:10- Is he fake or is it fake or real? 29:00 Should I do it? 30:00 What does he really need them? 32:00 Are they fake or really? 33:00 Would you like to know? 35:00 How does he have a core? 36:00 Could he be on steroids? 37:10 39:00 Did he have an ab implant? 40:30 41:40
00:01:01.000There's a guy, if you don't know who the Liver King is, there's a guy who calls himself the Liver King, and he's this guy who walks around everywhere with no shirt on.
00:01:10.000I've seen him in Vegas with no shirt on.
00:03:55.000I mean, I guess it's possible if you're on that much juice that your ab muscles grow that big too.
00:04:01.000Because the kind of stuff he does is, you know, very core specific.
00:04:08.000Like he's doing a lot of stuff where he's like cleaning and pressing kettlebells and walking with them over his head and all that stuff really does ignite your core.
00:04:18.000And if he's doing that all the time, I would imagine it's possible that those are real abs.
00:05:06.000That's where the question of whether or not that's real or whether or not they're implants.
00:05:10.000That's what I was leaning to is just, like, I feel like his overall body composition is pretty consistently represented.
00:05:16.000I don't think he has, like, I get that his...
00:05:19.000Yeah, like, look at him walking there.
00:05:22.000The argument is they don't change in, like, when he sits down or anything, the density of them and, like, the separation is so dramatic that it's got to be something.
00:06:56.000Like he likes to believe that you could...
00:06:58.000And again, because the problem with this too is a lot of people will extrapolate this out and then think everyone with a jacked physique must be doing something, which is problematic because then it sort of creates this narrative around, you know, everyone's lying or anyone with a good physique.
00:07:13.000It's impossible to get there without doping your fucking face off kind of thing, which is not the case.
00:08:45.000Because I lied and I misled a lot of people.
00:08:50.000I've stated that this is a complicated as fuck topic, at least to me it is, because before social media I was rich and anonymous and after social media I'm still rich but no longer anonymous and I never expected this kind of exposure in the public eye.
00:09:23.000And yes, I'm on steroids, and I'm already managed by a trained hormone clinician.
00:09:30.000Liver King, the public figure, was an experiment to spread the message, to bring awareness to the 4,000 people a day who kill themselves.
00:09:38.000The 80,000 people a day that try to kill themselves are people who are hurting at record rates with depression, autoimmune, anxiety, infertility, low ambition in life.
00:11:30.000Alright, let's play some more of this nonsense.
00:11:32.000While spreading the message, I've been on several podcasts, and when asked if I've ever taken steroids, I've always said, no, I don't touch the stuff, not gonna touch the stuff, never touch the stuff.
00:13:03.000Like, that was so theatrical and so corny.
00:13:05.000I don't know how, like, what kind of thought process went into it.
00:13:09.000There was some sort of ROI calculation on if I lie, like, what is the probability I get outed versus how viral can I go if I lie from the get-go versus, like, I just don't know how his team, especially with the information out there,
00:13:24.000thought that it was going to be a net win where it's probably never going to come out.
00:14:28.000Like, I don't even see how bad it would have been if, from the get-go, he was like, I, you know, it's not the healthiest.
00:14:35.000Yeah, but, like, I understand the not wanting to talk about the other shit, because he was on Winstrel, Deca, high amounts of GH, etc., which is not ancestrally consistent, but neither is HRT, because it's like, well, if your diet was so dialed...
00:14:50.000Like, why is it that you don't have, like, adequate testicular function or adequate hormone output or this or that?
00:14:56.000And it's just like, I guess I kind of just, like, spit in the face of his message too much that he couldn't wrap his head around justifying coming out and saying, I'm on HRT, but do this other stuff.
00:15:05.000Well, he kind of had, I mean, one of the parts of your video that was really good was that you inserted this guy who gives a definition of charlatans.
00:15:21.000Because, you know, when you're talking about fitness and physiques and you're talking about bodybuilding and just getting jacked, there are so many, like, really educated, really jacked-looking people that are online that tell you how they do it.
00:15:50.000Everyone's giving a very similar message.
00:15:52.000Some people have different approaches.
00:15:54.000Some people, you know, they're doing, you know, different kinds of exercises, but it's pretty consistent.
00:16:00.000And one of the things that Zach talked about in that video that you inserted into your video, which is really good, was that when someone comes along and they have a secret...
00:16:20.000Like he looks like he belonged to the nine ancestral tenants.
00:16:23.000Like you're gonna meet him in a cave somewhere and he's gonna explain to you and give you a magic staff.
00:16:27.000Yeah, it's like he needs – I felt – he feels it justified to be a larger-than-life character to represent the polar extreme of ancestral living and even if it's at the detriment of having to take a bunch of drugs to do it.
00:16:39.000Because men are killing themselves, Derek.
00:17:40.000Yeah, I feel like he puts out pretty goddamn informative content that still represents his, even if he has a polar extreme, potentially narrow view of what the optimal diet is.
00:17:50.000It's very much reinforced by information, thought process, not necessarily his...
00:17:57.000He shows up shirtless on camera, and I'm sure some of that was inspired by the Liver King to some extent, because he didn't used to do that.
00:19:01.000Like, again, it's very much leaning into certain extrapolations he's made that support his hypothesis, I feel like, which I feel like could be a stretch in many scenarios where it's just like, this equals bad, not moderate quantities equals potentially cumulatively beneficial for some people.
00:19:20.000I did a podcast with him not that long ago, and I felt like I gave...
00:19:45.000He's open to the idea that there's some minor benefit potentially to having the hormetic stress of a vegetable in some circumstance, but then in his content that's bite-sized, it very much comes across like...
00:21:04.000I had my doubts that he was free of PEDs like so many of you.
00:21:08.000But on multiple occasions when I challenged him with this, I was told that the answer is no, that he was not on any performance-enhancing drugs.
00:21:18.000We live thousands of miles apart from each other, but I had no knowledge of his PEG use, though I did have my concerns, as I said.
00:21:25.000I will take full responsibility for my lack of ability to challenge him with those concerns sooner.
00:21:33.000When he began getting traction on social media, I should have brought my concerns about the truthfulness, the veracity of his statements, of his claims that he was not using PEDs to him sooner.
00:21:44.000And like I said, I will take full responsibility for that.
00:22:17.000What Paul was trying to do was he was trying to promote supplements that he believed would enhance people's diet.
00:22:27.000That, you know, if you can't eat enough liver, if you can't get heart and kidney, You know, we could use desiccated forms of it.
00:22:34.000Yeah, and I think that's a noble way to market it, too, where it's like, I have a, let's say I have a micronutrient deficiency of, I don't know, vitamin A or copper or whatever it is, or choline, for example, like liver is very dense in choline.
00:22:47.000That sort of thing, using, if you don't like the taste of liver, is it reasonable to have a supplement in capsule format to get the exact same thing in, but without having to eat something you deem to be gross?
00:23:01.000But it's the whole, you know, the other angle.
00:23:04.000Yeah, but imagine being in business with this guy, and then all of a sudden the guy starts being shirtless, walking around with a chain around his neck.
00:25:07.000Maybe if he was on HRT and maybe he was surrounding himself with guys who were really super jacked, maybe he would be more entrenched in that world.
00:25:17.000But it seems like the kind of exercises that he does, he does a lot of bodyweight stuff and he does a lot of sprints on the beach and surfing.
00:25:54.000He has implied it pretty heavily, but he also doesn't end up in scenarios where he gets ass point blank, whereas Liver King goes out of his way to fucking lean into it and use it as like a marketing spiel.
00:26:23.000As big as The Rock is, at 50. What was wild is he came out, okay, and I get this is like, coincides with the message he would want to push too, and I don't think it's like disingenuous necessarily, but it's like, he was on a men's health interview and he talks about how his number one priority is longevity now.
00:26:40.000Yeah, and I'm like, dude, like, everything you're doing is, like, the hyper-opposite of that, like, in terms of a diet, a lifestyle, potentially.
00:26:49.000But, like, the drug exposure to maintain the physique to then do the superhero roles, to do the whatever at his age, like, it's clearly not longevity-focused.
00:26:59.000It's very much like, how much can I milk this right now with my brand sort of thing.
00:27:03.000Well, when you're looking at a physique, let's look at a physique of the rock, like a full jacked rock.
00:27:09.000Find the rock at his most jackety-jacked.
00:27:12.000He's pretty fucking peaked in terms of the last few years, he's definitely turned it up a notch.
00:27:39.000No, he's so massive and he's so different than he was when he was 30. Yeah, when you're in your 20s and obviously mindful of your image and, you know, you're still working out like a maniac, you're like a top tier.
00:28:00.000So to have all of a sudden 30 years later, like you're in better form than you were in your 20s, like it's just fucking obvious, obviously.
00:29:02.000What do you think an A-list actor should do if they were ass point blank in an interview on like a movie?
00:29:07.000Like they're promoting a movie that they just did where they just piqued their physique and it's clear to the person who can discern what's going on.
00:29:43.000There's definitely an argument to be made that when you have such an impressionable and massive audience that if you say, this is what it took to get here...
00:29:50.000It very much could influence the trajectory of certain younger men who are trying to aspire to be like you.
00:29:57.000So I see both sides of the coin for sure.
00:30:00.000So it's kind of an interesting scenario for some of the actors because I think just unspokenly some of these interviewers know to not ask the question.
00:30:19.000There was a guy who got really jacked for a superhero role, and he did a friend of mine's podcast, and he said to him before the podcast, I'll talk about anything, but do not ask me about drugs.
00:30:29.000Just please don't talk to me about steroids or drugs.
00:30:32.000It was the number one thing he did not want to talk about.
00:30:37.000I think Studios and the, you know, the massive amount of money that's involved in a film, like the one thing they don't want is to jeopardize any of the potential income, right?
00:30:52.000And if you come out and say, you know, the only way I got this way for the Hulk is I had to take massive amounts of steroids and this is just how it is, people are going to get upset.
00:32:40.000That Paul Sklar guy is built like that.
00:32:41.000It's just in the condensed time frame and the unique circumstances imposed on these individuals who go into the prep not looking like anything, that's where it gets unrealistic, and they're just...
00:32:54.000Completely transforming in a matter of, like, 12 weeks.
00:35:32.000He said in one instance that when he was 18, him and his friends took something, and it gave him gynecomastia, and then he never touched it again, or something like that.
00:35:50.000The most prevalence I've seen of gyno development is in individuals who, like, without enough information, went into haphazard use of, like, a pro-hormone or, like, an oral steroid without understanding, like, the pharmacology around it and then fucked themselves up.
00:37:03.000Even for such a little, something that's just barely protruding cosmetically, just at an objective look, when you actually look at what came out, it's like, damn, that's a fuck ton of tissue.
00:39:32.000Again, it's, like, there's a reason why I feel that your body naturally down-regulates a lot of processes, too, potentially to, like, conserve, like, stay alive longer.
00:39:42.000Because the bigger of a human you are, the faster you're going to die in general.
00:39:46.000Like, I don't see many, like, seven-foot guys walking around at 80-plus years old, personally.
00:40:00.000Yeah, but in general, even bodybuilders, again, they're subjecting themselves to absurd amounts of drugs, but at the same time, the sheer body weight and the stress it imposes on all organ systems and the longevity of everything internally, not just...
00:40:37.000And it seems like he's been like pretty fucking dialed about maintaining it like year over year now.
00:40:41.000Yeah, he's never really gotten thin or fat or never shrunk down then built back up.
00:40:47.000There's definitely something about once you've built the tissue you can retain it with like a very modest amount or at least to some extent like it's still going to typically be something outside of what would be normally achievable in terms of your hormone production because if you went totally natural you would just fucking melt away.
00:41:29.000It's not, it wouldn't be unthinkable that, or unfathomable, whatever the terminology would be, that he would use a shit ton or like a decent amount, blast, got to where he is, and then he could sustain it with what he deems to be not healthy, but like healthy enough that he can sort of just like cruise on it and like hold his shape for whatever,
00:41:48.000the foreseeable future of him doing these kind of roles.
00:41:50.000So what kind of stuff do you think someone would take to achieve that sort of physique?
00:41:55.000I don't think it's very dissimilar from what, like, Liver King, everything he's doing is pharmacy-derived and prescribed.
00:42:02.000Like, there was a reason why the compounds he chose, some of them are...
00:42:06.000Like, for example, Winstrel, not something that has a clinical application generally, but, like, there are certain medications that are only available through a pharmacy legally.
00:42:15.000You can get prescribed by a doctor and get overseen by a doctor.
00:42:46.000And like impeding the actual function of the cardiovascular system in general, kidney stress, depending on if you're using oral steroids or not, liver toxicity, neurodegeneration is going to be accelerated from high doses of androgens.
00:42:59.000Like across the board, it's just like broad spectrum, terrible for you.
00:43:05.000So it is that interesting moral dilemma.
00:43:09.000Like what do those people say when they're confronted if they do want to be this...
00:43:16.000You know, they're trying to be this character that is a superhero, and it's something that people are going to look up to.
00:43:24.000And, you know, they're a role model for young men.
00:43:27.000Look at this fit, healthy guy who's in the gym pushing it every day, the hardest worker in the room, like that kind of deal.
00:43:55.000And to answer your question earlier, like, what you would do to get that, like, I imagine he was probably, he's probably prescribed, like, a base amount of testosterone that he, like, titrates up and down based on whatever he needs to do for his roles.
00:44:06.000I imagine he's on, like, a base of growth hormone, and then he probably intertwines in things like DECA here and there, like, I imagine for joint support, but also, like, additional fullness, anabolism, etc.
00:44:16.000And then maybe like Anivar is like a hardening agent when he's preparing for roles that need to get like more dry and grainy looking.
00:44:22.000But in general, it's going to be stuff that is prescribable by his overseeing whoever it is that's overseeing his care.
00:44:29.000These can be pharmaceutical grade compounds that you can have actual medical oversight.
00:44:35.000Like no doctor is going to recommend you take like a Trenbolone, for example.
00:44:50.000If these guys are doing media events and they're going on these talk shows and they're being interviewed for interviews and stuff, and they're not telling the truth about that, are they even being questioned?
00:45:06.000I mean, is anybody questioning The Rock or questioning Hemsworth?
00:45:08.000I think they kind of know it's not going to turn out well if they ask.
00:45:12.000They probably get fired, I imagine, if they actually ask that question to them.
00:45:19.000No, and it just gets swept under the rug because it's like – it's nothing about answering the question other than getting the breaking story as conducive to that reporter's, like, longevity of their career.
00:45:30.000It's really unfortunate that that – that even HRT has gotten such a weird – It's in this very bizarre category of things that people avoid discussing.
00:45:44.000I know guys that are sheepishly asking questions and trying to get on it now that are friends of mine that, like, 10 years ago used to mock me for it.
00:45:56.000They're like, why are you taking that stuff?
00:45:59.000You know, like, what's wrong with you?
00:46:00.000No, even the celebrities that are honest, with the exception of maybe, like, Mickey Rourke or something, are, like, pretty careful and calculated about how they even represent their HRT, which could be, like, a therapeutic amount.
00:46:13.000Like, there was one interview, it was, like, I think it was Kumail Nanjiani talking with...
00:48:19.000No, he could be, but I think, uh, I forget who it was, but, like, somebody had a list of, some steroid dealer that had, like, a list of customers and leaked it, and he was, like, on the list.
00:48:31.000And then he was questioned by a reporter, and he just, like, was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
00:48:45.000Who is very well-versed and really understands it.
00:48:48.000And your show, by the way, for people who don't know, it's called More Plates, More Dates, and it's on YouTube, and it's a goofy name, but it's a great show.
00:48:55.000I'd love to ask you about that direction, by the way, because I've been thinking about, should I change it?
00:49:40.000Well, the thing is, like, everyone knows that name right now, and the problem is, like, if you did change it, there would be at least a period of time where people were just like, where is he?
00:50:09.000Sometimes when I see channels like PewDiePie or some of these channel names that are just objectively kind of, I don't know, silly or whatever, I'm like, oh, well, they did fine, so who am I to think I should do differently or something, but...
00:50:23.000I think you're fine, because everybody knows...
00:51:38.000I don't think you need to change that.
00:51:40.000But people like you in the world that you live in, where you're constantly examining the efficacy of supplements and of modalities and strategies for fitness and health and longevity and all these different things,
00:51:57.000For you, when you see people talking about being natural, they're clearly not natural.
00:52:15.000The thing that rubbed me the wrong way the most about it and is kind of like what compelled me to even make a video was because he was seeking coaching without the...
00:52:27.000Disclosure of what the plan was to do with that help.
00:52:30.000So it's like, I am going to enhance myself, and I'm already, you know, enhanced as is, in order to blow up by this exact date, but I'm not going to tell you, even the guy who I'm trying to seek help from potentially, like, this is what I'm doing with it.
00:52:46.000So it's like you're almost, like, aiding in the fraudulent activity a little bit.
00:52:58.000And it's just bad when people are very high profile and they're super duper jacked and they're trying to say they just get it from eating kidneys.
00:53:34.000And it's a very long and comprehensive video that goes over the entire saga, how it began, who he is, what he's done, all the statements that he's made about being natural on multiple occasions.
00:53:47.000It illuminates people to the realities of physiques and of this dilemma that we're talking about with role models and superheroes and these actors.
00:53:59.000Actors are in the most insulated world.
00:54:02.000It's very brave when an actor just comes out and says their opinions about controversial subjects or expresses some...
00:54:12.000Opinion that's not mainstream, because that's dangerous for your career.
00:54:17.000If you want to make it in show business in Hollywood, what Mark Wahlberg has done is brilliant.
00:55:01.000That's why I got so confused that he didn't think that the Liver King was full of shit.
00:55:05.000And that's why, I don't know, like, I don't know if he just really likes him as a human or what his, like, if he didn't want to call him out to his face or what.
00:55:14.000But it's like, it was, uh, I'm having a hard time grasping that he didn't think that was the case.
00:55:21.000But I know he thinks other people he's friends with or is aware of are Natural who looked even more insane than Liver King.
00:56:30.000But, like, there was this one guy, Matt Does Fitness.
00:56:33.000He's seen as, like, this fake natty in the fitness industry because he looks amazing at, you know, his body composition, and he was just sick of it.
00:56:42.000So he contacted me to facilitate, like, actual drug testing.
00:56:46.000Like, as if I was a USADA entity or something.
00:56:49.000And he put up a budget of money in the thousands of dollars range to get randomly drug tested with urine and concurrent blood testing.
00:56:58.000And like, I carried, chose all the tests he was getting to be as bulletproof as possible.
00:57:03.000And we would have a guy literally just show up when he's fucking lifting, at home, wherever.
00:57:08.000Pull his blood and get his urine and then test it to prove.
00:57:11.000And he's been doing it for like half a year now and concurrently showing that his lifts are not going down.
00:57:18.000So not only is his body composition staying the same, but his lifts have not changed.
00:57:22.000And he's passing the drug tests, which are like bulletproof tests facilitated by somebody who's not himself because he's not walking into the lab on his own accord whenever he wants sort of thing.
00:57:33.000I'm not saying that everyone should go do that because that was a hard thing to coordinate, but that would be like...
00:58:42.000No, the Mike O'Hearn example is it's wild that he leans.
00:58:45.000He doesn't go as hard as Liver King, I guess, in that he's like...
00:58:51.000But it's weird because he definitely likes to poke fun at it, even though he will not go out of his way to show any blood testing or do anything to reinforce his natural status other than, oh, look at me at like 15 years old.
00:59:13.000Because there's a lot of people that if they took testosterone or they took a bunch of different steroids, they still would look like shit.
00:59:57.000Like, he said duck eggs were, like, far superior to normal eggs, which, I don't know, like, I haven't even looked into the micronutrient, like, proportions of it to see if that to be true.
01:00:24.000It was like one of those things where it's like, oh, you know, like even in cosmetics, they'll like take a peptide, some obscure name, and like extract it and be like, oh, we put it into this face serum and this thing that came from some natural source.
01:00:34.000It's like the secret for, you know, eternal youth sort of thing.
01:00:51.000I mean, it's one thing if you're actually using those products and you believe in them and this is why you're selling them, but when you're just doing it for a money grab and also you're on the sauce.
01:01:31.000Like, either hyper-respond sometimes in a positive way, also in the side effect aspect.
01:01:36.000Like, usually there will be, if you push the envelope and go into, like, super physiological dosage territory, typically one thing will at least go wrong for you.
01:01:45.000You will probably have some sort of...
01:01:48.000I'm not saying this to be always the case because there are more responsible ways to go about it to minimize the risk of this happening or potentially avoid it altogether to some extent, but like hair loss, gynecomastia, acne, etc.
01:01:59.000And this guy, he just had brutal acne breakout after.
01:02:03.000What's the name of the video so we can take a look at it?
01:02:05.000It's tough to say because I've done a couple of acne videos.
01:02:08.000If you just type in acne, you'd see at least a few examples on my channel.
01:03:44.000He gets a lot of heat because he shows his aftermath, but he used to actually bodybuild pretty intensely and he had a, you know, a respectable physique.
01:03:56.000Does he still have that fucked up back, though?
01:03:58.000It's getting a lot better, because he took Accutane, he came off the gear, etc.
01:04:02.000He claims his source was a highly vetted, pure source, so it's tough to say if it was actually just the gear, or if it was just shit gear plus response to the gear, or what.
01:04:19.000Oh, he's still got those fucked up scars all over him.
01:04:22.000Yeah, I kind of feel for the guy because he does put out, like, information to try and make people aware of what happened to him, but now because he's natural, people will very much take that and be like, why would you even take gear to look like this?
01:04:37.000And it's like, that's not what he looked like when he was on gear.
01:04:42.000Like, he had aspirations to be a competitive bodybuilder and do certain things that, you know, it just wasn't in the cards for him genetically, obviously.
01:05:38.000No, and it's wild because it's like the fitness industry you would think is, you know, the epitome of health and fitness is the whole point.
01:05:47.000So it's just so paradoxical where you have this like industry built off of portraying a healthy lifestyle, but then you're also doing like the most paradoxical unhealthy thing to your body simultaneously.
01:06:00.000But then somehow the visual cosmetic representation of the unhealthy drug use portrays a more healthy and vibrant vitality look to people.
01:06:10.000It's just like, oh, this jack guy must be the result of the fitness lifestyle.
01:06:13.000Yeah, the strange thing is like when they're in peak form, they're literally on death's door.
01:06:18.000Oh yeah, their kidneys are like about to fucking peter out and they're just like, you know, ready to fucking pass out essentially.
01:06:25.000Yeah, for people that don't know, when you see a bodybuilder on stage and they're fully shredded and ripped and flexing, they are so dehydrated.
01:06:34.000There's definitely safer ways to do it, but ultimately, going down to deathly low body fat levels, cutting water, doing all these things, there's nothing healthy about it.
01:06:44.000Your body was never meant to get there, fucking ever.
01:06:47.000Not only that, your body never naturally would keep that amount of mass while you have such low body fat.
01:06:53.000No, you're fighting all mechanisms of biology until you get there.
01:06:58.000Your body is like, what are you doing to me?
01:07:00.000Isn't it interesting, though, that that, to people, represents the ultimate physique?
01:07:06.000Looking like you're dying, that's the ultimate physique.
01:07:08.000I have a friend that got so lean, he couldn't even walk around because his feet, the padding on the bottom was essentially gone because he had no fat anywhere.
01:07:18.000So it was, like, painful for him to walk and to sit.
01:07:21.000Like, his ass bones would be, like, sticking out.
01:07:23.000And he couldn't even, like, sit on a chair without, like, padding and stuff.
01:07:29.000But wouldn't you also imagine that's, like, massive inflammation in all of his joints and, like, that everything is just, like, on high alert?
01:07:55.000Was just a normal guy with like a regular job and he decided to enter into a bodybuilding competition.
01:08:01.000And he got like really low body fat and, you know, did the whole deal, did the competition, and then afterwards experienced organ failure and died.
01:08:25.000Like, your prize money will be nothingness unless you're, like, at the top of the sport.
01:08:31.000And even then, it's like, in general, like, I know guys who make more money in the fitness industry as just, like, influencer bros than the most top-tier bodybuilders because the bodybuilders are so...
01:09:20.000They get so, like, when you are around those guys, like, the worst thing anybody could ever say to one of them, like, hey man, do you lose weight?
01:10:22.000I'm just saying I do believe he would not just be on therapeutic HRT. Even if it wasn't for the message, I think he very much enjoys progressing and getting a good physique and looking the way he does.
01:10:34.000Right, yeah, you might be right about that.
01:10:35.000Which is what a lot of bodybuilders ultimately, when they get into this, typically it's not for like, oh, I just want to win Mr. Olympia.
01:10:43.000For some of them, very few, potentially that is the end goal, but it often stems from an insecurity of your...
01:10:50.000You know, whatever it is from your youth or you feel your physique is inadequate, whatever it is, and then you compensate aggressively by going like hardcore into the, you know, chemical enhancement realm, even at the detriment of your own health in order to look a certain way.
01:11:04.000Yeah, and that's where that whole thing about him being a charlatan from your video comes into play.
01:11:09.000Because he's selling this ancestral line of supplements where it's all...
01:11:14.000And also, I have a friend who is very knowledgeable about this stuff, and he expressed some concern.
01:11:21.000And I actually reached out to Paul about this, Paul Saladino.
01:11:24.000And Paul says that it's very, very little concern.
01:11:27.000But he was saying that when you're dealing with organ meat and, you know, you're...
01:11:33.000Like, there's possibilities of getting prions involved, and this was where mad cow disease came to play.
01:11:40.000You're talking about, like, cow brains and all these different things.
01:12:16.000Now, my friend, by the way, my friend is not involved in the organ supplement business, so maybe he doesn't understand how it's run.
01:12:23.000But he's like, when you deal with organs, you're opening up the door for, like, you don't know if you don't absolutely know the source of these organs.
01:12:39.000Heart and kidney and particularly liver, so good for you.
01:12:44.000And that's what's hopefully the outcome isn't at the detriment of that message too because it's like I hope people don't just take The Liver King debacle as everything he said was nonsense because he had a lot of good information, like a lot of stuff that was motivating,
01:13:01.000stuff that could have been implemented to improve your quality of life, health, vitality, etc.
01:13:05.000It's just unfortunate the way he went about doing it.
01:13:26.000And one thing I think Paul would be on board with, but is like...
01:13:30.000Just because it's not ancestrally consistent to be on exogenous synthetic TRT, it's not like you should live in a suboptimal state or quality of life because you're trying to be ancestrally consistent.
01:13:58.000I feel like our podcast, it's the thumbnails on the bottom right there.
01:14:02.000But I grilled him pretty hard on, like, in a respectful way, I felt, of, like, a lot of the...
01:14:08.000Incongruencies or concerns about, you know, the diet model and, like, you know, micronutrient shortcomings.
01:14:14.000Like, there are certain more difficult things to get in through, like, a nose-to-tail diet, like magnesium, and, like, we touched on a lot of that stuff.
01:14:21.000Does he recommend supplementation with magnesium to compensate for that, or how does he handle that?
01:14:26.000He thinks that the RDAs for them, like many other vitamins and minerals, are potentially off because he does a lot of Blood chemistry to see where he's at and he's like quite hyper aware of his like biofeedback and kind of knows what's going on and he's never been deficient from what he can tell so he believes that like if warranted I'm sure he would recommend it but he thinks that he gets enough from his diet but he's not opposed to supplementation when warranted.
01:14:52.000There are certain individuals who might benefit from I don't know, extra choline.
01:14:56.000If your diet too is, even if it's nose to tail, if you're trying to lose weight or something and you're in a little bit of a deficit or whatever, maybe you might be a little bit deficient in one micronutrient and then it's justified to take a supplement with it.
01:15:11.000Like, I'm sure he would be on board with that, and that is the whole premise of, you know, the supplements to begin with, is if you don't want to eat like a fucking heart, like, here's heart.
01:15:43.000Yeah, like for me, I use a magnesium bisglycinate supplement personally just because I use this thing called Cronometer, and I plug my diet in, and then it shows a full breakdown of my micronutrient proportions in terms of minerals as well as micronutrients, like all the vitamins.
01:15:56.000And for me, it's even difficult to get my magnesium in.
01:15:59.000So it's like, if I need to backfill that with a supplement, I feel it justified.
01:16:38.000I mean, I don't know if it's enough and how often you'd have to do it, but I know that a lot of people get a benefit from Epsom salts baths.
01:16:46.000It's supposed to be very good for the muscles.
01:16:52.000While relaxing in a hot bath may help soothe aching muscles, there's no evidence that people absorb bathwater magnesium through their skin.
01:19:02.000What kind of biohacks do you do nowadays besides the...
01:19:06.000The big one that I've been doing that I actually just started doing all this week is cold plunge first thing in the morning.
01:19:14.000I had read this thing about this guy, and then I read some subsequent articles, then I talked to Huberman about it, about there's a great benefit to cold plunge before exercise.
01:19:25.000And so there's a negative association between cold plunge and hypertrophy.
01:19:31.000So what that means is that if you lift weights, And you just climb right into the cold plunge right afterwards, you actually have less of a benefit from lifting weights because the cold and the anti-inflammation properties actually stop the hypertrophy.
01:19:46.000So the recommendation was always lift weights and then wait multiple hours before you get into the cold plunge.
01:19:54.000I really like the cold plunge after cardio.
01:21:42.000I did something I didn't want to do, which I think is...
01:21:44.000For someone like me, it, like, deals with a lot of pressure and stress and anxiety from, you know, just being in the public eye and all that stuff.
01:21:53.000I firmly believe that you need something way worse to counter that, that you voluntarily subject yourself to.
01:22:00.000Has it always been, like, when did that really...
01:22:03.000Has it ramped up more in recent years, or have you kind of, like, perpetually dealt with that since being...
01:22:07.000I don't know, like, you've been a public-facing...
01:22:15.000It's like slowly ramped up and it's almost like snake venom.
01:22:19.000I've got a little more bitten enough so that I can tolerate it.
01:22:23.000Because I've seen people that are really young that get really famous quickly and it just wrecks them.
01:22:29.000It wrecks them psychologically and And also they don't understand how to manage the input, right?
01:22:36.000So they're like reading comments about them.
01:22:38.000They're like tweeting and then responding to tweets and going back and forth with people in Instagram comments like, dude, dude, dude, dude, stop!
01:23:04.000You know, and I think that's very important because you're dealing with, you know, with my case on my Instagram, I think it's like 15 million people.
01:24:17.000I mean, I feel like you're supposed to...
01:24:20.000You know, look, there's people that live in war-torn parts of the world.
01:24:24.000There's people that were born in dirt floors and, you know, they're dealing with rebels and they hear gunfire in the middle of the night and their children get killed or their family members get killed.
01:25:07.000If you have backstabby people or gossipy people or mean people or resentful people or you're constantly dealing with somebody who's like...
01:25:17.000You know, always fucking falling off the wagon.
01:25:33.000I think, you know, obviously you should be there for your friends if something goes wrong, but you gotta recognize when this is an unstoppable pattern.
01:25:40.000You know, and I'm not just talking about addiction.
01:25:49.000Some people just sabotage their lives.
01:25:53.000And if you're around that person, they're always sabotaging their life and they always expect you to come in and fix it for them.
01:25:59.000They can absorb a significant amount of your resources.
01:26:04.000On the other hand, if you have friends that are positive and healthy and thankful and appreciative and they're fun to be around and those people can enhance your life, you enhance their life and everybody grows together and everybody has a good time together.
01:26:40.000In the martial arts world, you need training partners.
01:26:43.000And without training partners, you never get better.
01:26:46.000You want elite people around you so that you have to hold yourself up to the standards of their technique and their abilities, and it's the only way you get better.
01:26:54.000You get better by being in an environment with a bunch of killers.
01:28:08.000I wanted to treat it like I'm supportive.
01:28:12.000And in the weird world of television and comedy, It was a scarcity and a famine mentality because there was only so many jobs, right?
01:28:24.000So if you wanted to be on a sitcom, if you and I say we're in the audition room and we're both playing Tom the fucking security guy on a sitcom, if I knew that you're my friend and you're reading, I might fucking derail you.
01:28:37.000I might say, Lou, you look like shit, Derek.
01:29:49.000It's an organic network of people who are just friends, who support each other.
01:29:54.000And we just get together and have a good time.
01:29:56.000Is there any path, like, as you got to comedy, like, obviously you've done a bunch of different trajectories, like you did the reality show thing, you're an actor, you did, like, a bunch of different stuff.
01:30:05.000Is there any path that you, in hindsight, wish you leaned into harder or, like, fleshed out more?
01:31:06.000Obviously, I'm just speaking objectively from what I see, but some of the most hyper-successful individuals like yourself, it's being hyper-talented, but then also fortuitous timing in a lot of different scenarios, potentially, and there is some luck involved.
01:31:23.000There's so much pressure on social media now for young guys, especially at younger and younger ages, to be this crazy successful entrepreneurial individual, even when they're fucking teenagers or something.
01:31:35.000If you were to go back and be a teenager or a young 20s guy now, and you're starting from scratch, How would you approach it?
01:31:45.000Because when you're under the public eye of social media, and even if you just have a small account with like 500 followers, you still are under the public eye.
01:31:54.000Because something you say can go viral, and then either you blow up or you're fucked.
01:31:59.000Either one of those scenarios is possible.
01:32:03.000Managing your life today is so much more problematic.
01:32:17.000How about that guy who was a football player who got denied a scholarship because he was singing along to the lyrics in a rap video And he said the N-word.
01:32:27.000So there's a video of him singing along to a song he likes.
01:32:31.000And they kicked him out of the college.
01:34:00.000Most of my bombings, like, all my bombings, really, were just in these weird fucking nights and weird places, and you get over it, and then you move on, and you just go, ugh.
01:35:30.000High school's a big one, man, because it's like you're changing from a kid to an adult.
01:35:35.000Like, in that process, so many mistakes are made.
01:35:40.000See, the wild thing is how, even at your level of success, you trying to wrap your head around what you would do as, like, a young guy, you can't even fucking fathom it.
01:35:48.000So, like, imagine how overwhelmed some clueless 18-year-old kid is.
01:36:20.000Maybe it's one of those things where The way I've described it in the past is like I grew up in the Northeast and I wouldn't trade I wouldn't trade that for the world Because there's something about growing up in a place where it fucking snows Where it's cold as shit and the winter comes and you're fucked and when your car breaks down You got to walk five miles and you know negative ten degrees That builds a resistance or a resilience rather in a person that is
01:36:54.000I mean you certainly could develop discipline and you could certainly develop resilience if you live somewhere else, especially if you have a hard childhood.
01:37:02.000Those people develop a lot of resistance and a lot of resilience.
01:37:05.000But there's something about Growing up in harsh climates that develops a specific type of character character a person that values hard work and you get shit done and it's like a very common to People that live in like the Northeast in Boston.
01:37:22.000I wonder if like kids growing up today are it's like a technological winter They are developing a resilience, like a psychological resilience, if they survive it.
01:37:35.000They don't fucking commit suicide, which a lot of kids do today.
01:37:38.000Suicide and self-harm is up quite a bit.
01:37:43.000It's called The Coddling of the American Mind.
01:37:45.000And in it, that's one of the things they discuss, is that, particularly with girls, suicide and self-harm ramps up considerably around the time of social media's invention, around the time of the iPhone.
01:37:59.000So maybe these kids today that are growing up are growing up with like the wintertime equivalent of resilience, but through the internet, you know?
01:38:11.000Yeah, some of these, like, I've been more, as I've become more successful, I've been exposed to more successful people, those who are self-made, but also those who aren't and have been, like, trust fund babies or whatever.
01:38:22.000And there's definitely a huge differentiation between the mindset or the mentality of those who have gone through adversity or hard times versus those who have been, like, silver platter to them, essentially.
01:38:33.000And it definitely does fuck them up, I think.
01:38:35.000Like, even the ones who were successful but didn't have to go through the, you know, the hard upbringing or make it through challenges that otherwise, you know, have been, they've just, like, coasted through essentially because they've never been imposed, it's never been imposed on their lives at all.
01:38:59.000But the reality is there's a giant difference between growing up poor and then eventually becoming rich versus growing up super wealthy and then being given money and working hard to sustain that money.
01:39:17.000And you don't really know if you could have done it on your own.
01:39:19.000And I'm sure you can attest to the fact that like there definitely is like a neurological component to like it's called the hedonic treadmill and it's like your new set point becomes just what your baseline expectation is of Yeah.
01:40:02.000I don't know, like, adapting to that and being able to go from, like, zero to my hero, but just, like, the step-by-step is, like, what gives you the reward, gives you the mental progress and achievement that I think makes, like, a cumulatively just, like, a well-rounded human as opposed to the guys who are just,
01:40:19.000like, here you go, like, you're already up here from get-go sort of thing.
01:40:23.000Yeah, and you also can remember when you were poor, which is very valuable.
01:45:10.000So here he's training, so maybe he's getting ready to work out again, or maybe getting ready to fight again, preparing for Runderboy.
01:45:18.000But the thing is, it's like there's a big difference between training and really being confident enough in the shin to test it, like getting kicked.
01:45:44.000Even if your leg was to have the structural integrity to sustain an actual fight, what is the implications of walking around with a plate in it?
01:46:00.000Watch Chris Weidman test out his leg after brutal injury.
01:46:04.000I had David Goggins on the podcast yesterday, and Goggins, he's such a fucking freak of discipline, and his ability to tolerate pain is like no one I've ever talked to.
01:46:20.000He had bone on bone on his knees to the point where it distorted the shape of his bone, where his bones were like distorting to deal with the fact that there was no meniscus there and it was like growing off in a weird way.
01:46:36.000So the way they mitigated that is they had to cut a wedge out of his shin and then they lowered that bone down to make it parallel and flat with the tibia.
01:46:51.000And you see these screws that are in there, and he's got this plate and these screws, and he said every step he takes, he feels that plate.
01:47:43.000The guy runs 240 mile races with those knees.
01:47:47.000See, the wild thing to me about him, too, and it's like perhaps he's fully elucidated this in his book or in a podcast, and I just haven't seen it.
01:47:57.000But, like, he used to be out of shape, and then all of a sudden, like, switch flips, and he's just the most hyper-disciplined individual of all time, essentially.
01:48:06.000Like, what was the catalyst for that, like, mindset shift?
01:48:09.000Like, has he discussed that in detail?
01:48:51.000And those demons like propel him every day and now He's in this place where he's known as like literally the hardest motherfucker that's ever lived like that's that's who he is He's this guy that will run like you know 20 fucking ultra marathons in a month just to show people that it's possible and that Is,
01:49:14.000Because now you're constantly attached to this thing where you have to push it to the end, and then you see his body is falling apart.
01:49:22.000It's crazy how some of the most successful people seem to have, like, chips on their shoulder that they use to, like, propel them mentally.
01:49:30.000And it's like, I don't know if that's...
01:51:21.000David exists in this world where he is out there pushing himself beyond the limitations of the average human being, way beyond, in terms of his tolerance for pain.
01:51:34.000And he believes he's extracting lessons from that.
01:51:37.000Like, he likes the suffering because he learns about himself in that suffering.
01:51:43.000And he continues to grow through that suffering.
01:51:46.000Like, that's what he does, like, all day long, man.
01:51:48.000So he doesn't get stressed about the comments or anything.
01:51:50.000He just goes and, like, procures the best shitty ones.
01:55:50.000HGH, peptides, androgens are very restorative.
01:55:56.000They'll reinforce bone mineral density.
01:55:59.000It's not just muscle tissue for anabolics, too.
01:56:02.000There's certain stuff that's going to stay in his system for a long time he could never use, but on the bioidentical side, anything that is pro bone integrity, infrastructure enforcing, he is going to be...
01:56:17.000I would be highly incentivized if I was him and I knew I wasn't being tested.
01:56:23.000Yeah, if you took time off, say if it was you and you were a UFC fighter and you broke your leg and you found out about this, you saw a loophole.
01:56:32.000So you would take peptides, you would take growth.
01:56:35.000What are the things you were saying that you wouldn't take because they would stay in your system for too long?
01:56:39.000Oh, like any synthetic androgen, like you would not be touching in general.
01:56:44.000Like anything that could be detected for, like, I don't know, DECA. Like anything of that nature, I'm sure, is not even on his radar.
01:56:50.000It would be more like bioidentical compounds.
01:56:52.000How long does that stuff stay in your system?
01:57:01.000So, him taking testosterone, but wouldn't that fuck with his endogenous production of testosterone then when he gets off of it?
01:57:08.000Yeah, he could, but I'm saying the most logical thing would be the growth factor side of things.
01:57:14.000So that would be GH and then accompanying peptides like the BPCs, the TB500. There's other peptides that are not even tested for that I'm sure he's probably already using.
01:57:24.000But, yeah, like, I imagine his main priority is injury-proofing himself more so than getting, like, juicy as fuck.
01:57:36.000You know, when your bones get snapped and it's a weight-bearing bone, he says, I crushed a metatarsal bone in my foot three weeks before the Khabib fight and still made the walk.
01:58:08.000Like, there's something called pentasand polysulfate, I'm sure he might be trying, BPC-157 you've heard of, and something like the thymosin beta.
01:58:17.000Like, some of these are kind of, like, commonly known, would be expected, but I imagine it's very much from the acceleration of recovery, like you said, and then also just trying to make sure this shit never happens again.
01:58:28.000And he's actually confident going into the ring, and...
01:58:32.000Yeah, like for him it's kind of a unique loophole for sure and I don't know like how Right.
01:59:05.000IGF-1, too, forgot to mention, would also be something that would make sense.
01:59:10.000But yeah, and there's other compounds, but I would think the growth factor side of things would make the most sense.
01:59:15.000When a guy breaks a leg like that, how long is it before that thing is 100%?
01:59:22.000Like, it seems like I would, as far as, like, injury recovery goes for something that significant, like, I wouldn't know personally off the top of my head, but it seemed like there were certain individuals that took I forgot what Anthony Smith's injury was, but it was not as severe.
01:59:36.000And there was other individuals who had significant bone-related injuries that took way fucking longer to come back.
01:59:47.000But it was some sort of a significant, I think it was a ligament injury or something like that, which is why it was so unstable that he thought it was cracked.
02:02:17.000You know, getting the tibia and the fibula snap, and then you have to re-establish blood flow, and everything has to heal back up.
02:02:25.000And then also, you're fucking kicking knees and elbows and shit.
02:02:29.000I mean, how confident is he going to be throwing that leg?
02:02:32.000Yeah, I guess he's one of the premier shit-talkers, but it's wild how aggressive he is with it still, even though he's kind of in this, I don't know, losing streak position.
02:02:46.000His last big win was Donald Cerrone, which was a significant win, but then, you know, I wonder, you know, it could be just inactivity, too.
02:02:57.000The inactivity is probably one of the bigger factors in his demise.
02:03:02.000Maybe even more so than just the silk sheets.
02:03:07.000He said that after the Dustin Poirier fight.
02:03:09.000When Dustin Poirier knocked him out, he's like, I just feel like inactivity is a real problem.
02:03:13.000I just need to get back in here and be active.
02:03:16.000Because there's a lot going on in a fight, and if you're not accustomed to fighting at a high level, the stress of that moment is so overwhelming.
02:03:26.000Very, very difficult for guys to just take years off and jump back in and be at 100%.
02:03:30.000Yeah, like even the guys who were on a hot streak like Costa and just melting under pressure, some of them, it's, you know, definitely seems like even at the highest level with the most confident of individuals, they might just fucking...
02:04:10.000He could be a hyper outlier individual for sure.
02:04:14.000And I wouldn't want to ever say a definitive statement, but I think if there was ever a person, maybe not if there was ever a person, but I think it's highly probable that he's done certain things, for sure.
02:04:27.000Even when he went into the Ultimate Fighter, what is the show called again?
02:04:32.000Yeah, he went in as a self-proclaimed bodybuilder from Brazil, and his physique very much represented what you would expect.
02:04:43.000Obviously, he was more of a newbie back then, but even outside of myself, highly respected individuals like Farras Zahabi also believes he's on gear or has done certain things.
02:04:55.000Yeah, it's, you know, you can never say for certain if they're passing tests, obviously, but a lot of finicky shit sometimes goes into when they're testing out of the country, you know, politics, corruption, etc.
02:05:08.000I didn't know how, I wouldn't say there's a lack of comprehension in the, comprehensiveness in the USADA tests, but they're not bulletproof.
02:05:21.000Yeah, it's not that they're not trying.
02:05:57.000Yeah, like some of the most premier suspect guys were tested like single digit times, and this other guy somehow has like half of USADA's fucking budget allocated to him.
02:06:07.000Like, I get that he was new in the actual sport, like he was coming from, I forget where he came from exactly, but Well, he was not new in MMA. No, no, no.
02:06:19.000So the idea that some people have put out is they needed to establish more of a comprehensive passport on him quicker so that he had more elaborate testing off the jump than...
02:06:53.000It just very much brought into question, like, were they hoping he'd have more leeway in order to not give him the opportunity to actually have a good...
02:07:25.000You know, you can't really get insight onto what their decision-making process is.
02:07:29.000Like, even when asked about Connor, they were very, very vague in their answer.
02:07:33.000It was very much just like, this is what the rule set is for getting in and out of the pool and the testing window that you need to be subject to in order to be qualified to fight again, and that's it.
02:07:43.000We're not going to speak on any individual fighter, what has happened with them or not happened with them, etc.
02:08:24.000Like, you couldn't be like, oh, for fucking sure, but, like, it's pretty hard to refute, like, what has been put in front of our face with the positive test results and all the other background context.
02:09:11.000The question is, that's a lot of time off.
02:09:14.000But if Francis Ngannou versus Jon Jones is the big fight, well, Francis has had to take a lot of time off as well because Francis had a torn MCL and ACL, had to get surgery, reconstructed his leg, rehabilitated it, out for over a year.
02:10:00.000And him stepping up from light heavyweight, relinquishing the title, voluntarily saying, I'm done with this.
02:10:06.000I'm going to move up to heavyweight and be the heavyweight champ and then building himself legitimately into a heavyweight and then documenting it all.
02:10:14.000Showing all the deadlifts, showing all the squats, showing, put on size and put on some body fat.
02:10:22.000What do you foresee as, if it happened, what would be your prediction?
02:10:28.000Well, the grappling of Jon Jones is very difficult to deal with.
02:10:31.000I mean, for a guy like Francis Ngannou, who was primarily a striker and was taken down on multiple occasions by Stipe Miocic, And really dominated in their first fight.
02:10:43.000The question is, has Francis gotten better at grappling?
02:10:47.000Well, he definitely has, because he beat Cyril Ghosn with grappling.
02:10:50.000That was the fight that he fought with his blown-out leg.
02:10:53.000And he fought Cyril Ghosn, who is a fucking phenomenal striker.
02:10:58.000I don't know if you saw Cyril Ghosn versus Tai Tuivasa.
02:14:02.000Yeah, it's wild when you see guys, like, grind through five rounds and they still get caught at the end with, like, one shot and it's just, that's all it takes.
02:14:23.000I mean, how much have you looked into the science of weight cutting?
02:14:28.000Yeah, there are certain drugs you can use that I believe aren't banned that you can do pretty hyper-aggressive fat loss in short, condensed time frames.
02:14:44.000It was used in explosives in World War I, and then they found out that after the workers were creating the bombs, they were overheating and dying, and they figured out it was because it was being absorbed transdermally and increasing their metabolism so much that they were internally overheating.
02:14:59.000Yeah, and they marketed it as a fat loss agent for however many years in like the, I don't know, like decades ago, like almost a fucking hundred years ago at this point.
02:15:08.000And people started dying because it's very easy to miscalculate your dose or use...
02:15:14.000Like, the lethal dose is not that far from the effective dose.
02:15:18.000And people are overheating and dying, and they took it off the mark, and it's become illegal.
02:15:21.000But as far as I know, I don't think they actually test for it in USADA. Like, if you put in, like, their drug database, 2,4-dinitrophenol, I don't think they test for it.
02:15:30.000And there are certain other things too, but there are a lot of loopholes.
02:15:35.000I don't even think they test for stimulants outside of competition either, like amphetamines and whatnot.
02:15:40.000Yeah, so there are a lot of things you could do to nuke your appetite, increase energy expenditure significantly, drop water weight potentially more aggressively, and cut harder than would otherwise be naturally possible potentially.
02:15:56.000So, I don't necessarily think that he's doing all these things, but when you see a guy lose, like, fucking 60 pounds or something, you can only imagine he's looking for any loophole that...
02:16:09.000Is that legal in USADA? You could check easily.
02:16:12.000It's like UFC DRO and you type in the database any drug name and it'll say in competition, out of competition, allowed or not.
02:16:19.000I imagine GLP-1 agonists are not restricted because it's like used to treat type 2 diabetes or obesity at the higher dosages and super effective.
02:18:39.000Do you think that using semaglutide, though, would affect physical performance?
02:18:44.000Because of the diminished appetite, is there any other sort of feedback loop that would let you, like, maybe you wouldn't take in the nutrients that are necessary to have a good workout?
02:19:07.000Health space, health and wellness, and actual scientific community.
02:19:11.000Semaglutide has been known about for a long time because it was used to manage type 2 diabetes, but only more recently has it started to pick up steam and popularity for its effects on obesity because all these crazy headlines started coming out about people losing 30, 40 plus pounds who otherwise couldn't.
02:19:27.000And as far as how it would affect a fighter's ability to assimilate nutrients, stuff like that, Yeah, it slows gastric emptying significantly.
02:19:33.000It can cause pretty intense GI issues, make you nauseous.
02:19:39.000Maybe you don't even want to eat the food that you need to eat.
02:19:41.000It kind of depends on what situation you're imposing on yourself.
02:19:46.000But yeah, it's not a side effect-free drug by any means.
02:21:18.000There are different increments of dosage from the company that makes it and the lower dosage, like the drug is semaglutide and I think the lower one is called Ozempic and it's for diabetes management but it's basically just like a pen that's like in one milligram increments and that's the diabetes management dose.
02:21:37.000There's other smaller increments too but 2.4 milligrams is like the max well-tolerated dose where for obesity management it's like significantly more effective.
02:21:47.000I would think that for a fighter, if that really does have all those gastrointestinal issues and...
02:22:10.000It's like the value of willpower is very underappreciated, but I get it.
02:22:16.000And especially when someone is – they're used to consuming a lot of carbohydrates.
02:22:20.000It's very difficult to cut that down to a place where you're actually going to be in a deficit.
02:22:26.000Yeah, it's like some of the neurochemical changes that happen when you're accustomed to like the Western diet with processed foods and stuff, you're kind of, some of these individuals I think are imposing a situation on themselves where their brain is so sugar addicted or processed food addicted where they then need pharmacology to stick to a reasonable calorie intake so they can eat their like shitty foods too.
02:22:47.000Where I think a lot of this, not always, but some of this appetite feedback regulating stuff could happen naturally if you just had Like a high-quality diet, high-quality sleep.
02:22:57.000Like a lot of these things are massively impacted by sleep quality, duration, diet quality, exercise regimen.
02:23:04.000And it sort of self-regulates itself like a normal healthy body would.
02:23:08.000And some of this stuff could be band-aids for certain individuals who are getting shit sleep, doing whatever.
02:23:15.000When I did the carnivore diet, I was pretty shocked at how easily satisfied I was.
02:23:21.000And if I had done the carnivore diet and someone put a plate of spaghetti in front of me while I was doing that, I would be done eating fine with the carnivore diet.
02:23:30.000But the spaghetti would be like, I want that now.
02:24:21.000And that's one thing when people, they think they're eating clean and they don't realize these little things that you do throughout the day.
02:24:28.000If you just put them all in a bowl and then you measure the calories in that bowl, you're like, oh, that's 1,500 calories.
02:24:34.000Yeah, what was wild is there was this university in Canada that removed all of the nutritional information, apparently, from the foods that the students are getting on their meal plans because it was, like, too triggering to show the calories.
02:25:05.000If you've gotten to the point where you've educated yourself enough about what your body actually needs, when to stop eating, and you've established healthy practices that have become cemented as your foundational infrastructure, but to then have a guy who doesn't even know how to diet and be like,
02:25:25.000If I ate until I felt good, I would be a fat fuck.
02:25:28.000There was a viral video that went around that was a woman who was—God, I don't think she was a professor somewhere—who was talking about avoiding certain foods is just fatphobic, and it's not based in science,
02:25:43.000and you shouldn't deny yourself donuts, and— That it's all, you know, to call some food junk food is incorrect.
02:25:51.000And it's like, how are you ever speaking publicly on this?
02:26:31.000It is your problem if you're triggered by it.
02:26:33.000What they're doing, they're raising the anti-David Gogginses.
02:26:37.000They're raising the most non-resilient people possibly known to man, where every single microaggression, every single thing that could trigger you, all those are removed.
02:26:59.000Yeah, it's wild how the shift to like comfort mentality has very much become commonplace and it's just like I feel like this is partially why men's testosterone levels are dropping, too.
02:27:13.000Like, just, like, the lifestyle and encouragement to be, like, a sedentary piece of shit who's offended and insulted by literally everything.
02:27:20.000Like, none of it is conducive to masculinity.
02:27:23.000I don't know when it gives them promotion, but that's where I came from.
02:27:25.000Two fat professors fighting fatphobia with education, community building, and a lot of sass.
02:28:24.000They're not going to look at their gut in the mirror and go, Jesus, what am I doing with this?
02:28:28.000They're never going to make that, okay, tomorrow we stop this and we start that and now we get going in a positive direction.
02:28:35.000That's one of the good things about Goggins, though, too, is he showed that even him, who's the most incredibly disciplined and hard individual out there, He even at one point was not in the best shape.
02:28:59.000This is like the problem with this fitness and one of the things I really admire about you is your openness and your also...
02:29:07.000You are so educated on so many different subjects when it comes to supplementation and training modalities and all these different things.
02:29:14.000And you just talk about stuff from a place of actual knowledge.
02:29:19.000There's so much bullshit in that world.
02:29:22.000It's like so many people are just full of crap.
02:29:25.000Yeah, no, it's wild how much misinformation is in this industry and, like, misleading, I don't know, just, like, information designed to make you buy into whatever it is that they're trying to promote that is, like, this is the only way, there's no other alternative,
02:29:41.000and I think more transparency in the industry overall is just...
02:29:45.000You know, always a net benefit for the individuals watching trying to educate themselves.
02:29:53.000It's such an overwhelming amount of information now, too, across social media.
02:29:56.000It's like, who do you even trust or listen to half the time?
02:30:00.000Well, I know they can trust and listen to you.
02:30:02.000It's one of the things I appreciate about you.
02:30:03.000And one of the things that happens when a guy like the Liver King gets so massive Is that he develops this incredible following that really is unjustified given the fact that he's lied about stuff.
02:30:16.000But then that will come towards you now.
02:30:18.000And a lot of that will come towards you because people realize, like, who's this guy who's exposed this?
02:30:31.000And then they'll go to your other videos and they'll say, oh, there's like a real good benefit to this.
02:30:35.000And you talk about stuff without any worry about the moral quandary involved.
02:30:38.000You know, you're just like, this is what's effective, and this is what works, and this is a...
02:30:43.000And, you know, that's how it should be.
02:30:45.000Like, it should be up to the person who's taking it to make your own decisions in terms of what you should and shouldn't do with your body.
02:30:51.000But you also show, look at this guy's fucking back and the acne.
02:30:57.000No, I'm sure that's why I... As much as I do, too, appreciate the stuff you do.
02:31:01.000It's very, very transparent into what you do, what's effective, why you do it, what you feel is a waste of time, why, how you've learned things, how you've educated yourself over the years.
02:31:11.000You always have people on, regardless of how big or small their social media following is, too.
02:33:31.000That's been the most amazing part about it is to be able to talk to so many intelligent people that have so much information on so many different subjects and be able to quiz them.
02:33:39.000Like I had Neil deGrasse Tyson on the other day.
02:33:45.000So it's like you get this free seminar with this fucking genius who gets to sit down and explain to you how they can shoot a telescope a million miles into space and take photos of the cosmos.
02:35:12.000There's a lot of like weird interactions with hormones and real-world events.
02:35:18.000No, I forget the study, but it was like comparing somebody who like won versus lost a competition or something, and it was like the winner would get a boost in tea, loser would lose tea.
02:35:54.000I wonder, like for you, obviously, I think you're in your early 50s now?
02:35:59.000Yeah, 55. So, would you, if it was possible, if it even came out and, like, I don't know, David Sinclair came out with some, like, crazy longevity thing, you could just live forever, would you want to, like, maintain that in perpetuity?
02:36:14.000And what do you think about just, like, the way...
02:36:17.000I don't really know how to perceive if this is a good thing, the way things are going, just trying to turn people into robots and this whole shift towards maintaining the species in perpetuity.
02:36:29.000There's one way to look at it is, would you want to live forever?
02:36:32.000But the other way to look at it is, do you want to deteriorate?
02:36:35.000Yeah, I don't even know how to adequately frame the question, but it's a very odd scenario where people are striving for this, I don't know.
02:36:46.000Yeah, I mean, Ray Kurzweil genuinely wants immortality.
02:36:49.000He wants you to download consciousness into some sort of supercomputer, and then you will exist in this new realm.
02:36:56.000Yeah, because I'm trying to imagine, like, what the future is of people just, like, have this fucking chip in their head, and they're just sitting there, like, brain-dead on a couch, like, just, like, simulating sex all day, essentially, and just, like, hammering the dopamine button, and that's pretty much it.
02:37:30.000Like, how aligned some of, like, the old movies is sort of becoming.
02:37:34.000Well, the metaverse is kind of failing, right?
02:37:36.000Like, Zuckerberg pumped so much money into the metaverse, and now people are calling him a fool, and, you know, and they're, you know, how much money did...
02:37:46.000Meta-loos on the metaverse, banking on the metaverse.
02:38:39.000They probably have like multiple people that did it.
02:38:41.000And then there's all these actual human beings that are walking around the Louvre and you walk in between them and can go like walk right up to this painting and check it out.
02:39:05.000You could experience things that are unavailable to you.
02:39:08.000Like, say, if you're living in some inner city and you're a young kid, you can get a wealth of, like, physical experiences through virtual reality.
02:39:35.000I mean, if they could accurately represent what the lifestyle of those people was like back then, I would really want ancient Egypt.
02:39:45.000That's the big one to me, but they just don't know enough.
02:39:48.000I'm just trying to imagine the utility above and beyond a cost-effective way to do tourism or experience things that would otherwise be unaffordable.
02:40:25.000No, not realistic, but not necessarily realistic, but enough so that it makes it exciting.
02:40:32.000So like when you put the headphones on and then you're standing in front of this guy and he throws punches, if you move your head, the punches miss you.
02:40:40.000And if you hit him, you see his head snaps back.
02:40:43.000And when he hits you, you see a flash of light.
02:41:44.000Makes me wonder if it's just going to be like essentially...
02:41:48.000You're replicating what you could otherwise, if you were trying to achieve something in real life and then trying to replicate a virtual version of it, and then you're just going to be competing against other people virtually for virtual belongings and virtual success and virtual this, but everyone in reality is just sitting in their apartment fucking...
02:42:10.000I think that's some version of that is probably inevitable at this point.
02:42:16.000What is going to be weirder is if we integrate with technology to the point where you're not wearing something, but it's a part of your body, like a Neuralink.
02:42:25.000The thing that's going to be crazy about that is then you're no longer interfacing with some virtual reality headset and playing a game with some other people that are on the cyber world.
02:42:37.000Now your mind is connected to the cyber world permanently.
02:42:42.000I don't think humans have the willpower to not just smash the dopamine button.
02:42:49.000Like, any of these, like, rat studies that look at what happens when they present them with an opportunity to just, like, press a button and then it hits them with dopamine and they have, like, an orgasm or something.
02:43:04.000And when they have virtual sex, when they really do develop some sort of either a haptic feedback suit or some sort of a neural implant that can...
02:43:15.000You can hijack all of your sensitivity cells and all the skin cells and all the things that are designed to detect, feel, and touch and warmth.
02:43:28.000They can hijack those and you could feel a woman wrap her legs around you.
02:43:49.000And if it's going to be so good that you cannot detect whether or not it's a simulation.
02:43:56.000Like, this is one of the weirder things that Elon believes.
02:43:59.000He believes there's a high likelihood that we are currently in a simulation.
02:44:03.000And when I said to him, I said, well, with probability theory, and you think about all the planets that there are, and all the potential for advanced civilizations, the potential for advanced life, one day they will create a technology that's unrecognizable from reality.
02:44:20.000You will develop some sort of a virtual environment that you can't discern whether or not this is physically real or whether or not this is just so super advanced technology that recreates life.
02:45:39.000I don't necessarily think it's good, but whatever it is, it is.
02:45:42.000Yeah, I don't even know what to make of it, because it's like, I don't know, for the people who very much value achievements in real life and chasing success or doing things that are rewarding, it kind of like shits on that.
02:45:55.000I think we're the last of the Mohicans, bro.
02:46:00.000I think David Goggins never finished...