In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, I sit down with my good friend and fellow archery coach, Joel Rogan. Joel is a world-renowned archer, coach, and mentor to many, including his son, Bodie Rogan, who is currently the number 1 ranked indoor archer in the world. In this episode, we talk about the importance of focusing on the shot, how to stay in the moment, and how to deal with anxiety-filled situations in archery. Joel and I talk about how the anxiety of the shot is the key to success, and why it's so important to have a system in place that allows you to stay focused and not panic in a moment of anxiety. I hope you enjoy this episode and find some value in it. -Joe Rogan and If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts! or wherever you get your podcasts. I'll be looking to add a new episode every Tuesday morning. Thanks for listening and Good Luck Out There! Cheers, Cheers! -Jon & Rory Check it out! -Jon Rogan Podcast by day, Train By Night, by night, All Day, All Night, By Night! - Rory McElroy "The Joe Rogans Experience" by Night, All-Day Podcast by Day, by Night - All Day Podcasts by Day - By Night All Day All Day by Night by Day Jon Rogan Interviews by Night Jon Rogans Podcast by Night's Podcast by Day by Day Jon talks about his new book "The Shot IQ by Day: The Shot IQ Podcast by Night Podcast by Rory talks about how he's going to be training his son Bodie's new bow and how he'll be training for the big indoor archery competition? Learn more about his Dad's new season of "Bodie's Dad's New Year's Day's Day, "The Shoot IQ" by Day and what he's training for his upcoming competition day, and what his plans are going to do to get ready for the upcoming competition, and more! , and so much more, and much more. . Listen to the full episode, check it out on the podcast, and learn more about what's to come in the next episode, and be sure to stay tuned for the next round of the Shoot IQ Series by Day's Shoot IQ!
00:00:17.000I'm very happy to talk to you because, you know, I think that what you teach applies to not just archery, but it applies to life, it applies to anxiety-filled situations, and you have figured out this one element Of archery that so many people can't seem to put their finger on.
00:01:40.000And they can't keep their shit together.
00:01:42.000You have figured out a way to make a system where you have very clear, defined guidelines that people can follow where they could stay in the moment and not lose their fucking mind at this moment of anticipation.
00:02:54.000And they're just letting things happen.
00:02:56.000And with Bodie, he's just like, this is going in.
00:02:59.000It was so funny because he just won Lancaster, the Lancaster Classic, which is another huge indoor archery shoot.
00:03:05.000And when you shoot Lancaster, you're in the practice range.
00:03:09.000And he came in first seed because he shot the second ever—well, there's been, I think, five people now in history that have shot— Well, four people that have shot a 660 qualification round.
00:04:18.000And, uh, When you start, you come in first seed, the person that's in front of you that maybe came in fourth, fifth, sixth, whatever, they get to shoot out on the stage against somebody.
00:04:29.000So they actually get to zero their bow because the lighting's different and it's huge.
00:04:33.000I mean, you're trying to hit this penny.
00:04:34.000And then they have a 12 ring that's the size of their arrow.
00:04:38.000Basically, it's like 27 diameter, 27 64th diameter.
00:05:47.000And Bodie's sitting there listening to the guy.
00:05:49.000And Bodie's got his stabilizer, because everybody usually steps, there's a red button on the stage.
00:05:53.000If you hit that red button, you then, you know, then it's a 12. Then you've got to shoot for the 12. So he hits the red button, but he hits it with a stabilizer.
00:06:01.000So the guy's explaining the shoot-off, and Bodie's just hovering his stabilizer over, just looking at the guy, right?
00:06:08.000And finally just dunk, and he hits that red button with a stabilizer, and then just shoots a 12. And the other guy missed the 12, so it was pretty cool.
00:07:18.000So now I know that that's the core problem in shooting, right?
00:07:21.000Your mind will not allow you to cause your body impact as a surprise.
00:07:26.000And it took me a lifetime to figure out what the true problem was.
00:07:30.000And that's where everybody's kind of skipped around it.
00:07:32.000So there I am at five years old shooting this 30-30.
00:07:35.000Oh, I pressed the trigger perfectly one time.
00:07:37.000And as soon as I felt that recoil the second time, when I racked that lever and I shot it the second time, I guarantee you, I closed my eyes, clenched my body as I pressed the trigger.
00:07:51.000It's smoke, fire, noise, all kinds of negative things that happen, right?
00:07:55.000And I was experiencing the same thing in archery.
00:07:58.000I started shooting a bow when I was seven.
00:08:00.000And by the age of eight, I'm locked completely off a target, meaning I would draw the bow back and the targets level with me and I'm aiming at the floor, right?
00:08:11.000And then you would jump that thing up as we see many archers do now.
00:08:16.000They jump up and let the string go at the same time.
00:08:18.000It all gets linked together so that your body can brace you for impact.
00:08:22.000And people don't see archery as an explosion.
00:08:24.000They see it as, well, it's just shooting a bow, right?
00:08:28.000Shot anticipation or shot control is a lot easier with a firearm because the explosion happens in the apparatus.
00:08:35.000It imparts recoil on you, but it's not actually—the explosion is in the apparatus, whereas in archery, the explosion is in your body, right?
00:08:44.000It's that sudden release of energy that happens, so shot anticipation with archery is a hundredfold what it is with a firearm.
00:08:50.000It's also the amount of movement changes so much where the arrow goes because it's not going as fast and it's subject to all your little tweaks.
00:10:22.000So that would cause that anxiety, that rush, and you would rush the shot.
00:10:27.000So there I was, then I decided to become a cop.
00:10:30.000My older brother was a cop, my mom was in law enforcement, so I decided to be a cop.
00:10:34.000And at the range, I knew that, you know, when I turned 21, first thing I did was bought my concealed weapons permit in Washington, bought a pistol.
00:10:45.000And for some reason that pistol always shot low and left.
00:10:48.000I'm like, what is the deal with these sights?
00:10:52.000So I get in the academy and I bought a different pistol.
00:10:56.000I bought a 1911 that's got a much shorter trigger stroke on it.
00:11:00.000And I basically fixed a mental problem with mechanical means at that point because I got through the academy starting to realize what I needed to do to control a shot.
00:11:11.000And my buddy was so bad in the academy with his Glock that he had to then—he bought my pistol from me because that's the only thing that got him through the academy was buying my pistol from me.
00:11:22.000I bought another one, so we both fixed our mental problem with mechanical means.
00:11:26.000And I ended up taking first in firearms in my academy class, not knowing how I did it.
00:11:33.000But that's where I started to feel this love for instruction because I got to help some people with it.
00:11:42.000Two years in law enforcement, then I got a firearms instructor because I had this interest in firearms and kind of figuring things out.
00:11:50.000And then I got on the SWAT team, same time, 2003. So that's, you know, I spent 18 plus years on the SWAT team and ended up being the sniper team leader and then eventually the team leader for the team.
00:12:27.000It was just totally by accident because I'd heard all the normal stuff in firearms instruction.
00:12:31.000Front sight, front sight, front sight.
00:12:33.000You know, you stare at your front sight hard enough and things are just going to work out for you.
00:12:37.000Well, that just doesn't happen because in most gunfights, most people will tell you they never even see their sights.
00:12:42.000So, I had this recruit that we call, we had one in every class, we call him Nervous Nelly, right?
00:12:49.000I mean, this guy was just super anxious, and you can tell the different personalities that people have.
00:12:54.000Just when you put a gun in their hand, they're nervous, and this cat, all these movements were super fast, and he was just a jittery dude, right?
00:14:12.000So then the next time, he shoots again, and I changed my cadence of speech, which changed his cadence of movement, and that's when the light bulb went off for me.
00:14:21.000I'm like, okay, we've got to figure this out.
00:14:23.000I had complete control of this kid's mind at this time, but I had to get him to do that.
00:14:29.000And that's where this whole thing started into neuro-linguistic programming and all the sciences that we went down the rabbit holes on to really figure this stuff out.
00:14:38.000And so what did you learn from neuro-linguistic programming that applied?
00:14:50.000I didn't know what that was, and so I have lots of very smart friends, and so one of the doctors that was on a sniper crew for a neighboring agency, he was their ER doc, because most SWAT teams have an ER doc that's assigned to the team.
00:15:09.000And so I'm training him in some of this stuff, and he's like, oh, that's neuro-linguistic programming.
00:15:19.000So I started looking into that, and it was mostly like Tony Robbins, self-help, get yourself out of addiction, you know, get yourself out of the gutter type stuff.
00:15:29.000But what I took it as is it was the route to concentration.
00:15:32.000Because what you say is what you think.
00:15:35.000And I needed people to think and to concentrate on a specific movement.
00:15:41.000What I'm asking people to do is just shy of impossible.
00:15:48.000I'm asking you to override your own central nervous system with concentration.
00:15:52.000That is just shy of impossible, but it's not impossible if you know exactly how to do it.
00:15:58.000But when I ask that question of all the people that I train, it's like, how do you concentrate?
00:17:43.000You may learn it in steps and it's very choppy and you have to think about each specific motor program that you're doing, but then you eventually put that into a package through practice, right?
00:17:54.000So we go from the cognitive stage of learning to practice stage with the goal of becoming automatic.
00:18:00.000And that's where people, they do the same thing with shooting, but in shooting, the only thing you're getting more efficient at is bracing you for recoil.
00:18:58.000But open loop is your brain sends a motor program to the effector.
00:19:03.000The effector is just the muscle group that receives it.
00:19:06.000So in that, the motor program is usually too fast for you to gain feedback in it, like shooting a basketball, swinging a golf club, right?
00:19:16.000Those are all movements that have to be smooth to keep the totality of the movement going.
00:19:22.000But in shooting, if you use open loop for the trigger, it's too fast, and you're not doing anything to mitigate all the other muscle contractions that are coming in to brace you for impact, right?
00:19:43.000If you don't think about something, you're going open loop.
00:19:46.000Like when people black out and stuff, they go super efficient on the trigger.
00:19:49.000They don't remember what happened because it was a negative event and it was all subconsciously driven.
00:19:54.000Now, closed loop is a movement that's slow enough you could stop it anywhere within it, right?
00:20:01.000There's a certain speed at which you can gain the feedback that you need to, say like in the signature test or if you're pressing a trigger, right?
00:20:08.000Or if you're working your hinge, you're working that thing slow enough and you're concentrating on the movement and you're working it slow enough, you could stop it anywhere within it.
00:20:23.000That's where people try to jump over the problem because you have to decide.
00:20:29.000If you're doing a movement that's going to cause an explosion and you're trying to do it slow enough you could stop it, That will never just find you.
00:20:38.000You have to concentrate on that movement.
00:20:40.000So you got to know how do you concentrate, right?
00:20:43.000Well, you got to talk yourself through it.
00:20:45.000And you got to know what decisions you need to make at what moments in the shot because there are moments in the shot when autopilot is going to try to take it, right?
00:20:54.000And that's what happened to me for 13 years in my bow hunting career.
00:20:57.000From 14 to 27, I was going completely automatic, right?
00:21:02.000I was so engulfed in trying to kill that critter or aiming good or whatever it may be.
00:21:10.000My mind was never in the movement that it needed to be.
00:21:14.000So that's the difference between open and closed loop.
00:21:17.000And when that guy told me what you're doing works but it's not right, he taught me about open and closed loop control systems.
00:21:24.000But what he never taught me and what I noticed from all the textbooks and all the stuff that we did, it had never really been put into shooting.
00:21:33.000It had never truly been put into shooting.
00:21:35.000So he kept asking me, what's this decision you keep talking about?
00:22:58.000Now getting yourself to concentrate, and martial arts has used mantras for thousands of years, right?
00:23:05.000This sound means this, this sound increases power, whatever it does.
00:23:08.000So you're talking yourself through it, but when it comes to the actual application of the action like you're talking, you can't get conscious with it.
00:23:17.000You have to keep your conscious mind out of it.
00:25:57.000It was just another yay me moment, right?
00:26:00.000So 2011, 12, 13, and 14 come along, and I killed a bunch of critters in that time frame, but I wasn't controlling my shot still.
00:26:11.000But I was at least present enough to be aiming and all those things, but I still wasn't getting through my shot, essentially punching the trigger.
00:26:18.000So December 14, 2014 was my big, that was, I shot a big black-tailed buck, and I didn't control my shot.
00:26:27.000I shot him at 8 yards, shot him right in the heart, and it was raining, and it was right before dark, and I'm like, I was happy that I shot the buck good, but...
00:26:38.000I was pissed because I didn't control my shot again and realized that by this time I'd been a SWAT sniper since 2003, right?
00:26:48.000Scared to death on how it was going to go because all that time between 2003 and 2014, thank God I didn't get in any tactical situations where I had to actually press a trigger because it would have been just like a coyote.
00:27:03.000I guarantee you it would have been just like a coyote and that's where a lot of cops are these days.
00:27:07.000They don't know what's coming and they don't know how to control themselves at this moment of truth.
00:27:13.000So I've got this sounding board of bow hunting where I'm still, some are good, some are not good.
00:27:20.000It's still a mystery to me because I never blueprinted it, right?
00:27:23.000So December 14, 2014, I shot that buck and I was pissed and I sat in my tree stand.
00:27:58.000Because I remember on the hog in 2008, I drew back and I had the same anxiety and all the craziness going on.
00:28:06.000It was the same feeling of weakness that I wasn't going to perform well, but I was at full draw.
00:28:11.000Now I'm locked off target, which hadn't happened in a long time.
00:28:14.000But I was so conscious in that shot, for some reason, I don't know if I was pissed off or what it was, but I went, I ain't doing this again.
00:31:29.000So when you shoot that perfect shot, Question number one, what was I thinking about after Here I Go?
00:31:36.000Because all the stuff up to Here I Go is pretty much the setup of the shot.
00:31:39.000You've got your aim, you've got tensions, maybe you roll to the click in your hinge.
00:31:44.000What am I thinking about after Here I Go?
00:31:46.000And what you need to be thinking about is nothing other than that shot activation movement.
00:31:50.000What is the movement that's going to cause this explosion?
00:31:54.000Where do I need to put my concentration?
00:31:55.000It's got to be in nothing other than the movement.
00:31:58.000But you'll find in archery and shooting, most shooting sports, people leave their thought process in the aim where it does you no good, right?
00:32:05.000So question number one, what was I thinking about after here I go?
00:32:09.000Question number two, what was I saying after here I go?
00:32:12.000What words or sounds did you use to guide your concentration?
00:32:16.000So you now know what you need to be thinking.
00:32:18.000You know exactly what you need to be saying or what sound you're using, if it's a hum or an audible exhale or whatever it may be.
00:32:26.000Question number three, could I have stopped it?
00:32:29.000Were you so keenly concentrated on your shot activation movement that you could have stopped it anywhere within it?
00:32:35.000And if you can say yes to that, that's a big ask, right?
00:32:38.000But if you can say yes, I could have stopped it, that means that you were truly in a closed loop control system.
00:32:44.000And the only way to get into that is by having enough determination to make a decision so that you're present, so that you can concentrate.
00:32:52.000So those are the fundamentals of precision shooting, right?
00:32:56.000So what am I thinking after here I go?
00:33:25.000Well, this is why I think this is important and this applies to so many things in life because so many movements and things and actions in life are...
00:33:49.000Whereas what you're doing and what you're teaching with archery and what I've learned from you is that if I say to myself while I'm shooting, if I'm talking to myself and I go through this whole list,
00:34:05.000center the bubble, center the site, You know, relax the shoulder, draw, pull, pull, pull, release.
00:34:15.000And when it releases, I'm in control of the whole thing from top.
00:34:19.000And there's all these anxiety-driven thoughts that just, get it out!
00:34:29.000But if you stay in your own thought process and talk to yourself, so like when I'm at full draw on an animal, I'm like pull, pull, pull, plop.
00:34:40.000All I'm thinking of is these mechanics of making that shot release instead of all that other shit.
00:34:46.000By forcing myself to say pull, pull, pull at the final things I eliminate.
00:34:53.000Any possibility of shit going wrong, because all I'm thinking of is those words.
00:34:57.000All I'm thinking of is that movement and those words, and it's magic.
00:35:02.000And so many people in the world of bow hunting don't know this.
00:35:08.000More people know this now because of you, but I remember when I first found your stuff online, I was like, Okay, this makes sense, because I knew it was a mindfuck, and I was shocked at how mindfucky it is, because I'm a martial artist,
00:35:24.000so I'm used to just reacting to things.
00:35:26.000I'm used to relying on training and just moving automatically, but you cannot do that with archery.
00:35:34.000It requires stillness And calmness and being centered and in the moment in a very unusual way.
00:36:02.000It might be a giant animal that's a screaming bull and you're shooting through a window of two trees that's 12 inches wide and 50 yards away.
00:36:23.000Have this thought process in your head, going through your pre-shot routine perfectly, pulling back on the bow, centering your bubble, centering your pee, pull, pull, pull, swap!
00:37:53.000But when you look at some of the texts that are associated with that, it's this blank-mindedness and all this stuff.
00:37:59.000However, most of those cultures use what's called a mechanoreceptive trigger.
00:38:07.000And people never knew about it, right?
00:38:08.000Why is it in keto archery that the tip of the arrow is so much bigger than the arrow, than the arrow shaft itself?
00:38:15.000And in those old texts, the arrow is not ready to be loosed until the point touches the knuckle, right?
00:38:22.000So mechanoreceptors, I'm sure you know this, but they're sensory receptors in your skin cells that give stimulus.
00:38:29.000So like if you and I are sitting here, BS, and I put my hand down on a hot stove, The mechanoreceptors and the skin cells of my hand send this to my brain.
00:38:37.000My brain then sends the motor program that gets my hand off the stove.
00:38:40.000It's how Olympic archers shoot with a clicker, right?
00:38:43.000So they draw their arrow back and they've got it underneath the clicker, and then as they pull the tip of the arrow out from underneath the clicker, it clicks against the side of their bow.
00:38:52.000That sound wave is picked up by the hair cell, the mechanoreceptors and the hair cells of the ear.
00:40:04.000So I have this bow that has set up a Garmin sight, which I love.
00:40:11.000And what a Garmin sight is, it's a range-finding bow sight that uses a dot.
00:40:17.000So instead of having a pin, so just explain it to people at home.
00:40:21.000The way you sight an archery bow, a bow for bow hunting or bow for archery, is there's a program that you run the arrow weight through, the speed of the arrow, you shoot your arrow through a chronograph, the weight of the arrow,
00:40:38.000the draw length, and all these different components go into a program called Archery Advantage.
00:40:44.000And that program will give you a sight tape.
00:40:47.000You put that sight tape on your bow, and it's calculated to the weight of the arrow, the speed of the arrow, and it shows how much drop the arrow's going to have over 20 yards, 40 yards, 50 yards.
00:41:00.000And it'll show you exactly where that pin has to be.
00:41:03.000So you would have to range with a laser range finder.
00:42:09.000It hits this animal quartering away, broadside, punches straight through the animal, and the arrow goes 30 yards away.
00:42:16.000But the Neil guy runs like nothing's wrong with it.
00:42:20.000In a full sprint, when the arrow hits it, I'm like, oh no.
00:42:24.000I'm like, how am I even going to find this thing?
00:42:26.000130 yards it went until it died, but we didn't know where it went.
00:42:30.000You know, it's heavy brush in South Texas.
00:42:32.000And I'm talking to the guide and he's like, when we shoot them with rifles, we have the client who has a round in his rifle and then the guide also has a round.
00:42:44.000So the client shoots the Neil guy and then the guide will do a follow-up shot because that's how tough they are.
00:42:51.000I'm like, maybe you should have fucking told me that before.
00:43:28.000If you shoot an elk at 52 yards, when you go to the spot where it hit, you're going to find drops of blood, and you're going to be able to do a blood trail, and you'll be able to find your animal.
00:44:10.000You know, that sound that you hear when it hits the vitals, when it goes through the ribs, through the body, and it went out the front shoulder.
00:44:36.000So the difference is that you're a very determined person, and that's the missing ingredient in most people, is they're not determined enough to actually make the decision.
00:44:48.000And they shoot their bow and they're punching the trigger, maybe just a little bit, right, in practice.
00:44:53.000So they're literally practicing their own failure in a high-stress event, right?
00:44:58.000So they're punching it a little bit, a little bit, and their mind's just making them a little bit more efficient, more efficient, and they're practicing this efficiency.
00:45:05.000They're practicing their open-loop trigger work.
00:45:08.000And then it comes to a high-stress event, and then they go ultra-efficient, and none of that stuff that you're talking about is in their head.
00:45:16.000They're only thinking, holy shit, I don't have a pin.
00:45:20.000We'll just make things happen, and your autopilot will take it away from you like that.
00:45:25.000But you, because you practice making decisions, you practice finding determination.
00:45:32.000These are strange things to practice, but we're just using archery.
00:45:37.000We're shooting firearms or whatever it is.
00:45:39.000We're using those as the medium for practice of these very mental things.
00:45:43.000You use your bow to practice your concentration, right?
00:45:47.000You saying pull, pull, pull doesn't just happen.
00:46:18.000And the shoot-off, and Bodhi's going to shoot his process no matter what, right?
00:46:23.000So it's really cool to see that and to know, like, you put Bodhi on a critter, it is done for.
00:46:30.000Because Bodhi is a—he's stone cold, man.
00:46:33.000Well, the fact that you've trained him since he was a young boy at this, and this has been the way he's learned archery— Like, with his age, at your understanding of it, it all came about really at the perfect time.
00:48:54.000But now it's just, you know what's happening in Bodhi's mind, and you can see it in his eyes, and you see that squint, you know the concentration is there.
00:49:01.000And the only advice that I ever give him is keep it moving.
00:49:04.000Because I know that if he keeps his release moving, I know that his conscious mind is in his release, and it's not in the aim.
00:49:11.000People, they are so infatuated with the aim.
00:51:01.000It's not actually there anymore, though.
00:51:03.000By the time you process that, and that's why people super weight their bows.
00:51:07.000Like you'll see a lot of pros have like 50 ounces of weight on their bow.
00:51:12.000Because, and that's strictly for their human psyche, that is to calm themselves down because they see that slow pin movement.
00:51:18.000But what we're trying to get is a surprise break, right?
00:51:21.000You're trying to get it, concentrate on this movement so you don't know when your bow is going off, so you can't, your mind can't put the pre-ignition movements in there.
00:51:28.000But then you couple that with a super slow pin movement.
00:51:31.000Well, now it's in the 9 ring, and if you keep going, you have the surprise break.
00:51:35.000If it breaks in the 9, and it is a 9, like on a Vegas face target, if it breaks in the 9 and it is a 9, it lands in the 9, then your bow is obviously too heavy.
00:51:45.000You've slowed the rate of return down too much.
00:51:48.000It's just like, you know, you have to be able to break a shot in the 9, and it still hits a 10, if not an X. And that's how we tune Bodie's bows Everybody's like, oh, Bode's so steady.
00:52:01.000People think that because they don't see his stabilizers moving very much, but he keeps them light so that his pin can break anywhere in the gold and it'll hit an X. That's how we do that, right?
00:52:13.000We're not trying to catch it because that's open loop trigger work.
00:52:20.000There's some guys like Tim Gillingham and Kyle Douglas who are like elite, world-class archers who hold their bow steady, they put the pin right there, and then they pop, they hit it.
00:52:46.000So they superweight their bow and they're able to process that and they get it there.
00:52:51.000But it bites them in the butt every now and again, right?
00:52:55.000So, and you can't stop that because you don't know what pre-ignition movement's coming.
00:52:59.000And you see that in the shoot-offs where, you know, they shoot amazing to get to the shoot-off, but then there's one in there that they didn't catch, right, that they went open loop on.
00:53:09.000Well, they go open loop on all of them, but there's one that they got a little too efficient with it, right?
00:53:14.000And this is nothing against those guys.
00:54:52.000They would have to probably lighten their bows up and become friends with the movement because if you have that super – like their pin moves really slow.
00:55:00.000So if they have it moving slow and they continue with that movement, if it breaks in the 9, it's going to be a 9 because it can't get back to the middle fast enough with how they have it weighted.
00:55:09.000They have to have the pin movement so slow that it comes into the middle and there's enough time for them to recognize, okay, it's in the middle, send the signal to the release, right?
00:55:20.000And this is all happening in thousands of a second, but it's only there for a microsecond.
00:55:56.000Archery is such a proving ground for mental control, and it's one of the things that I love about it.
00:56:02.000One of the things that I love about it is archery doesn't give a fuck how many people like you, whether your friends text you back, whether your wife is upset with you.
00:56:40.000And what I'm obsessed with is this ability to recreate the movements and the mindset that you need in order to do it efficiently and accurately and then do it again and again and again.
00:56:57.000You also have to avoid this thing where I like to sometimes, I'll make a shot, it's a perfect shot, and I'm like, good, I'm dialed in, and then I don't do all those things when I'm drawing back.
00:57:08.000I just draw back, I center my peep, and I just fire another arrow.
00:57:12.000And it doesn't matter if it went in there.
00:57:14.000I'm like, don't do it that way because you're not doing it the way you're going to have to do it if you're on a big bull in the woods.
00:57:22.000If you see a big bull in the woods and it's, you know, the 16 yard gap in between two trees and that's where his vitals are.
00:57:29.000You gotta have all your I's dotted and your T's crossed.
00:57:33.000You can't just rely on the fact that you've already shot 50 arrows in a row, because you haven't.
01:00:17.000When I zoom in on something with a rifle, when I'm looking down that scope and I've got that crosshairs on it, I know all I have to do is just pull, pull, pull, pull, pull.
01:00:39.000And that the difficulty of archery, it enhances and educates all these different aspects of your life when it comes to dealing with stressful, high pressure situations.
01:01:57.000It applies to so many high-pressure situations, is that the mind gets away from you.
01:02:04.000You see it in traffic accidents where people panic and they hit the gas instead of the brakes, or they just fucking don't know what to do.
01:02:11.000They freak out because they can't stay calm in the movement, in the moment, and just concentrate on what they're supposed to be doing rather than the desired result they want to achieve.
01:02:23.000And that's why I think archery is one of the ultimate proving grounds for mental control.
01:02:28.000Like I said, they may have done it before.
01:02:48.000When it comes down to like life or death stuff, that's where, you know, you're a very determined person, just in the way you live your life.
01:02:56.000It's Cam, very determined person, right?
01:02:59.000So that's how you get to where you get to.
01:03:02.000It's the first ingredient in this whole control factor is having enough determination to do that.
01:03:23.000But it is the mindset of most cops because they don't have a why.
01:03:27.000You know, if a cop's never been in a gunfight or a shooting, their why is artificial, right?
01:03:34.000And it's scary the first time that you do that.
01:03:38.000You know, having that why and seeing, like, I was in an HR where I, you know, had to use lethal force on a person that was, I had to put a round this far from another human being's face, right?
01:04:46.000I get there, and it was weird because on the brief, I walked up to the house, and the SWAT commander briefed me at the At the head of the garage there, and it was light-colored concrete.
01:04:59.000You know, we didn't have a bunch of lights on because the operation is active in that house right there, but the room was in kind of the back of the house.
01:05:05.000And I remember he's talking to me, telling me the situation, and I'm looking on the ground and I'm like, what is all that stuff on the ground, right?
01:05:15.000And I'm looking at these dark patches on the ground.
01:05:17.000So I turn my flashlight on and it's blood.
01:05:20.000There's blood all over the place on the walkway down from the garage.
01:05:41.000And I got to be, I'm up on a ladder over a wood fence, and we're about, I'm only like 15 yards from the window, but we can't see anything in the window.
01:05:50.000And the negotiator's on the phone with this guy, and he's not really making a lot of sense.
01:05:56.000He wants to talk to his girlfriend, blah, blah, blah.
01:05:58.000He's got his daughter in there with him, and we can hear her through the wall, right?
01:07:25.000When we rip the blinds out, there's the dude again.
01:07:27.000I can't see him because I can only see like half the room.
01:07:32.000And he's in the right corner of the room, and I'm over this fence.
01:07:38.000And The window guys are yelling at him to drop the girl, drop the knife, you know, to get him all the commands, and he's kind of working his way along the wall.
01:07:47.000He's got her around the waist, so he would hold her up above, you know, so they can't get a shot.
01:07:53.000And so he's moving his way across the wall, and then he moves his way across this wall and ends up in this corner.
01:08:00.000Sits down and pulls her up over the top of him.
01:08:04.000And so the window's on the same wall as this corner, and I can't see any of this stuff.
01:08:09.000I'm the sniper team leader, so I work my way around, and I get to this gate.
01:08:15.000I'm like, they called fire priority to the window team.
01:09:01.000There was another officer that had basically his face planted against the window so that he could just barely see through the sliver because it was on the same wall.
01:09:11.000And he wasn't shooting, and I'm like, why are you not shooting?
01:09:17.000And so we actually ended up having to remove him off the ladder because I don't know what he was thinking.
01:09:29.000It was a gas-operated.308, and lowest power on the scope was 4.5.
01:09:35.000And I told the admin years ago, I'm like, I need lower power because it's going to be close probably when it does happen, and sure enough, it was.
01:09:43.000So I get up on this ladder, and I put my face against the wall, and I can just see through the sliver.
01:09:48.000I can see him sitting, and I can see her sitting in his lap, basically, and he's got his arm around her.
01:09:57.000And the team keeps giving them commands, and I'm looking at this shot, and I'm evaluating what's going on, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm going to have to shoot him left-handed.
01:10:07.000And I'm thinking, lowest power is four and a half.
01:10:10.000So I do an optic check on the wall, and I'm like, that ain't going to work.
01:10:13.000So I'm thinking to myself, I'm going to have to shoot him with my pistol.
01:10:16.000When you say optic check, it's because it's moving too much?
01:10:19.000No, because it's too much magnification?
01:11:10.000So we swap rifles, and he says HK416. And the reason he said that was because on an HK416, if you flip to safety twice, you go to full auto, right?
01:11:21.000So don't want to do that in a precision environment, right?
01:12:45.000So just like you're thinking your thing didn't turn on when you're looking at this Neil guy, I'm looking at this red sun in a dimly lit room and I'm like, this ain't gonna work.
01:12:55.000So I pulled the rifle back out of the window.
01:12:58.000And now I've got to work on the buttons on this site.
01:13:02.000So now I've got to find the button that dims the red dot.
01:13:06.000So I mess around with this thing, and the whole team is outside, and they're watching this, right?
01:13:11.000Because they're going to go on my shot.
01:13:12.000Now, this dude had the door barricaded with a TV and a TV stand and all that stuff, so they were going to have to hit the door hard.
01:13:19.000But they were going to get a running start at it, but I moved them out because they were right on the other side of the door, but I didn't know if my round was going to go through the wall or not, so I moved them out.
01:13:54.000I don't know, because he was, I mean, who knows what kind of mental state he was in, and I was trying not to be too, that's why I didn't turn on any lights or anything.
01:14:05.000So I come around the corner again, and I look in there, I'm like, okay, I got the right brightness, but it's too close, right?
01:14:11.000Like her head was like an inch, because what I'm looking at is this.
01:19:39.000Now, if we take that and we refine that and put it into the actual movement that we want to happen, that's when you get to that higher level, right?
01:19:47.000It's so fascinating how the mind is geared to survival, geared to react quickly to high stress panic situations, the adrenaline pumps, but you don't have an operator's manual.
01:20:02.000On how to navigate the various stages of anxiety and these states that only occur rarely under very high-pressure situations, and you don't have a lot of experience with them.
01:20:17.000You see that in street fights, where people who don't have training, they have no idea what to do, and you see the walls just I'll never forget this.
01:20:27.000I mean, this is a clearly untrained person.
01:20:30.000We were at the comedy store, and the comedy store is on Sunset in Hollywood, and there was a fight that was taking place across the street.
01:20:40.000And there was all these cars that were passing by while watching these guys yell at each other and push each other.
01:20:47.000And then I see this one guy whose eyes are squinting and he's decided to engage in this guy.
01:21:05.000Literally like closed eyes like squinting head up in the air and he's swinging like with open hands and then a bus goes in between Him and I and the guys fighting and then when the bus passes he's out cold He's out cold and the other guy walks off and I'm like wow like watching that guy panic and watching that guy in a situation where He'd probably never been before,
01:21:30.000didn't know what to do, had talked himself into this terrible situation where he's an untrained fighter, an untrained guy who's fighting with another person.
01:21:58.000Those the heart beating the adrenaline pumping and all that it's like those moments Overwhelm people where they can't stay in the moment.
01:22:08.000Yeah, and I think what you've done with your shot IQ course is You've given people not just the tools to be effective at archery, but the tools to understand how to control your mind and During high pressure situations and stay in the moment and do the thing that's difficult to do under those high pressure situations.
01:22:33.000And not just want it to be over with quick.
01:23:14.000I get the opportunity to talk to psychologists, and I just had one at the house that came for a clinic.
01:23:23.000It's funny when you talk to these people because it's hard to find a psychologist that has been there and done the things that we're talking about.
01:26:18.000Yeah, and once we figured that out, now we can start to attack.
01:26:21.000What sciences do I need to figure out that deal with this stuff?
01:26:24.000And I was lucky to have the right people in the right places to figure this stuff out, but it's putting it in that package so that you can define your job, and then how do you attack it, right?
01:26:45.000I think there's so many people that go out into the woods to hunt archery, and they don't know what's going to happen when they pull that trigger the first time.
01:26:57.000So the first time they ever do it, it's like, whoa!
01:27:02.000If they knew what you're teaching, I really think that the rate of success would go up exponentially and the rate of bad shots taken would go up as well.
01:28:35.000What's amazing that there's all these different people that come up with all these different methods to try to beat target panic.
01:28:42.000And one of the things they do, they work on the mechanics by blind bailing.
01:28:46.000And what blind bailing is, for the people who don't understand archery, is you literally stand in front of a large target like a bale, like a bale of hay, and you stand close to it.
01:28:56.000And all you're doing, you're not even thinking about where you're going to hit.
01:28:58.000A lot of times you close your eyes and you're just going through the mechanics of the shot.
01:29:03.000So the mechanics of the shot Get programmed into your system, which gives you a little more confidence that you know how to do the mechanics, but it doesn't stop you from freaking out at the moment.
01:29:16.000And so all these people that have all these different methods, it's really like someone who doesn't understand what's really going on trying to explain it to someone who also doesn't understand what's really going on.
01:29:29.000Is that good for defining and refining your movements as an archer?
01:29:36.000You should teach someone how to blind bail when you're first learning archery because you want them to be able to understand how the shot should break.
01:29:44.000But without the knowledge that you're presenting of what's going on in that high pressure situation, they're going to spaz out and they're going to go open loop.
01:29:57.000But in the instruction for decades, that's been it, right?
01:30:00.000And people spend months, like, you should blind bail for six months, or maybe you start with a close target and then you move it out slightly, slightly, slightly.
01:30:09.000All that is trying to get you to do is separate from the aim.
01:30:14.000Don't waste six months of your life shooting a blind bail.
01:30:17.000Let's shoot a good shot, blueprint it, understand exactly how you do it, and then you have to test it on a target.
01:30:25.000And, you know, some people are like, well, as soon as I, and this is even in my course, and I have to take this out because I filmed that course in 2015 and 16, and since then, the online course, I've got lots of updates to it, but there's one portion of it that I need to take out because in there I say,
01:30:43.000and this is how it was when I first started, when it was in its infancy, if you detect an error, let the shot down, right?
01:30:52.000I don't say that anymore because now every time you detect an error, like let's say that you draw back and you're like, oh man, I'm really shaky.
01:31:01.000Oh wait, I'm not supposed to be thinking about my aim.
01:31:48.000And people are like, oh, the archery instructors are going to lose their mind when they hear, like, oh my god, Turner's telling people not to let down.
01:31:54.000I let down in tournaments if I have a shot that went stale because I wasn't thinking about the right movement.
01:32:02.000You'll see Bodie do that every now and again.
01:32:04.000There's a certain point of pressure in the bow where you're not going to hit the X. There's too much pressure built up, right?
01:32:12.000You're just not going to hit the X. So if you have time to on the clock, you let it down.
01:32:16.000But recognize, what was the problem there?
01:32:18.000Ah, I wasn't thinking about the movement.
01:32:20.000I was thinking about my aim or whatever.
01:32:22.000Very interesting when you look at Bodie's interview from Lancaster in 21, or 22, actually, when he shot that 660. Because they interview him right after that shot, and he let it down before he actually shot his 60th arrow for the 660. And he tells you exactly what's going through his head.
01:32:42.000He says, oh man, my pin was jumping from red to red.
01:32:47.000And he left it at that, and I'm like, well, that's why it went stale, because you're thinking about your pin shaking on a target, so you're not thinking about moving the release.
01:32:55.000And then they ask him about the next shot.
01:32:57.000Well, it was good enough, so I just kept my release moving.
01:33:06.000It is, but it's just the way it works, right?
01:33:09.000And so just cutting to the chase and cutting out all the crap and giving people a specific blueprint to To eliminate the mystery in your shot, right?
01:33:20.000Or in your whatever you're doing, right?
01:33:22.000Whatever a precision professional needs to concentrate, this is how you do it in a tangible way.
01:33:27.000And I feel like there's a way to translate this to many other things.
01:33:32.000I don't feel like this is just limited to archery.
01:37:41.000It's a mechanical fix to a mental problem.
01:37:44.000The problem is that it's so based on preload, how much you're pulling when you let that safety off, That there's no professional archer out there that shoots attention-activated release.
01:38:21.000The only thing we're teaching you is what work needs to be done and how to do the work.
01:38:25.000But when you take this tension active release, if they just won't stop punching whatever other release they're doing, I'll take that tension active release and I'll screw that sucker down where it won't go off, right?
01:41:35.000I should be able to fill this table with releases and go, there you go, Joe.
01:41:39.000And just, you know, index finger trigger, thumb button, hinge, tension activated, pick it up, understand how the trigger works, And control it, no matter what.
01:41:48.000And is that possible even with an index trigger if you're just pulling the trigger?
01:41:52.000So even an index trigger, a full draw, if you're just like pull, pull, pull, pull, pull, bink, with the finger?
01:41:59.000So what we do is we teach people to open their whole hand and just wrap their finger around the trigger and then pull their hand through the strap.
01:42:09.000They're not moving their finger at all, they're just pulling their hand through the strap.
01:42:11.000It's easier to control this bigger movement, right?
01:42:13.000So when they do that, that, I mean, that's plenty of motion to be able to do that.
01:42:38.000Because when you control that one and you understand how you did it, the world is yours, right?
01:42:43.000And then you get into selecting a release, like, okay, this release, I can go closed loop on this easier.
01:42:48.000I can evaluate the movement, the pressure increase, without a bunch of travel.
01:42:52.000So now, once you have this knowledge, you can actually pick a release that you can evaluate best, right?
01:42:58.000And it's, you know, it may be a thumb button, it may be a hinge, it may be an index finger trigger, there's all kinds of releases out there.
01:43:04.000But the whole archery industry Is built around target panic.
01:43:54.000If you are a stone-cold killer and you have a system on how you do it, that's awesome.
01:44:01.000But it's when you try to put it to somebody else, right?
01:44:05.000Like, I didn't grow up being a good shot.
01:44:07.000I grew up being a horrible shot, but just loving shooting so much that I wanted to figure it out.
01:44:12.000And then I had these sounding boards of, you know, my determination well was deep with the sniper stuff, but I had this sounding board of bowhunting where I was constantly failing, right?
01:44:22.000If you have a system and you know how you do it, if you know exactly how you're going to shoot your next shot, then you don't need to change a thing.
01:44:30.000But if you don't know, if there's any mystery in that, then that's a problem.
01:44:36.000I mean, do you want to be the person that, you know, somebody calls you in a big old bowl or whatever and you botch a super easy shot that you certainly should have made?
01:45:23.000Well, you can do things to control your breathing, and you can do things to control your heart rate.
01:45:29.000So that breathing, and I don't know if it was on your podcast, but Huberman was talking about that you inhale through your nose.
01:45:37.000And then you give it an extra inhale, so you inhale to the top, and then you do it again, which inflates different stuff in your lungs.
01:45:45.000We always did combat breathing, right?
01:45:48.000In through the nose for four, hold for four, out through the mouth for four, hold for four.
01:45:53.000That was what we always did in tactical stuff, and that's the only breathing techniques I've learned.
01:45:58.000I listened to Huberman's thing and I used it at Vegas this year because Vegas, indoor archery, is strange because it's just a yellow line on the floor.
01:46:10.000It's the only thing that makes me nervous.
01:46:13.000I shake like a dog crapping tax when I'm on that yellow line and say, this is your first scoring end and everybody knows what that means.
01:46:21.000I mean, it is a thing in indoor archery because your target is so small, right?
01:46:25.000And if Bodie misses the 10 ring when he's shooting for his 900 in Vegas just to get to the shoot-off, if you miss one time, your weekend is done, right?
01:48:08.000I watched it right before I was on the line in Vegas.
01:48:12.000So what is the specific thing that you do?
01:48:13.000So you breathe in through your nose to the top.
01:48:18.000And then you give it an extra, and you'll feel the tension, right?
01:48:21.000And then it's a long exhale through the mouth, and I'm sure it does the same thing that combat breathing does, that box breathing, but it worked better.
01:48:51.000We're talking about who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people are involved in competitive archery and bow hunting.
01:48:59.000Are you surprised that the amount of time that people have been doing this and the amount of time that people have been dealing with it, as you said, There's like an entire industry that's built around target panic, but that no one has ever gotten to the root cause of what this is and recognize that not only is this applicable to archery,
01:49:18.000it's applicable to all high-pressure situations where you have to physically perform.
01:50:35.000And he's like, it's just so amazing that, you know, a person who, and I think it's very important that you experience so much failure, because you had to come up with a method.
01:50:59.000So it's really kind of an amazing thing that sometimes you'll have these complex problems in these industries that are overwhelmed with people.
01:51:09.000It's not like there's a tiny amount of people doing it.
01:51:11.000But one person finds this doorway like, hey guys, there's a way out of this.
01:51:29.000Because I think it applies to so many things in life.
01:51:33.000The ability to stay in the moment and not lose your shit and have in your mind the very specific task you're trying to do and think about that only.
01:51:47.000Do so in your mind with words, so even though your fucking heart is racing, anxiety's at an all-time high, there's all this adrenaline, you still can execute.
01:51:58.000You still can do the thing that you want to do.
01:55:01.000Like I said, I had a surgeon come to me and he said he completely changed how he instructs Surgery after the signature test and after learning, he already knew open and closed loop control systems, but doctors seem to learn that stuff very early on and it's not used that much in medical fields.
01:55:25.000So they don't really, it was something they just kind of stored away and they don't think about it anymore.
01:55:29.000But now when they have to teach somebody how to do something and they see the right movement, they gotta, how do I keep that person in that movement?
01:55:38.000You've got to know how to translate this.
01:55:40.000And it comes, you know, guides use it especially, right?
01:56:29.000That you could expand this to many different things and that you could come in and explain, almost through archery, you could explain this to people and they could apply it to other things in their life.
01:56:40.000Because I find myself using it in other things where I'm in high pressure situations where I just talk myself through it.
01:56:47.000And I stay in my words and in my conscious mind and it makes a big difference.
01:58:11.000It's a very effective weapon in my hands.
01:58:14.000But a lot of people pick it up for the wrong reasons.
01:58:18.000They pick it up because they want the simplicity, they want the tradition, they want all that stuff, but then they lose any skill level that they have in their shot.
01:58:26.000And it's, you know, I originally started shooting barebow years and years ago with no sights because I could never put a pin on the target.
01:58:35.000Were you shooting a compound bow instinctively?
01:59:36.000He only shot with a recurve bow because he wanted to show everybody that he could be just as effective as hunters are with compound bows and high-tech equipment.
02:00:01.000I can hold for about 30 seconds and shoot a controlled shot.
02:00:06.000But I'm shaking like a dog, crapping tax.
02:00:08.000What people need to understand is that a compound bow is very difficult to pull back in the beginning, but the nature of the cam system and the mechanics involved in it, it has a very high let-off.
02:00:21.000So a lot of bows have like an 80% let-off, which means, for the people just listening, it's 80% less hard to hold it than it is to pull it.
02:00:31.000So when you're at full draw, I can hold a full draw for a minute and a half, two minutes, and stay there.
02:00:37.000As long as I'm not completely trying to be absolutely steady and aiming, I can hold a full draw and just relax my arm and then lift it up and then go through my shot process and I'm not compromised.
02:00:49.000But you can't do that with a free curve.
02:01:24.000Like I've come up with some new triggerless ways to shoot triggerless that are really cool where we incorporate like a safety system, but it's very difficult to shoot a stick bow just by allowing your subconscious to tell itself when to let go.
02:01:39.000You are constantly dealing with pre-ignition movements.
02:01:42.000Yeah, that's what I don't understand, because I would think that with you, when you want this surprise shot, when you're shooting traditionally, and I know you were using a thumb ring for a while, like the Mongols do.
02:01:55.000There's something to that, too, right?
02:02:48.000When that pops, this thing releases to the point where the subconscious can't get in the middle.
02:02:54.000Why did the Mongols choose to shoot bows that way?
02:02:59.000So it was all based on mounted archery.
02:03:01.000So when you shoot, I mean, their arrow's on the other side of the bow.
02:03:05.000So when you're riding your horse with no hands, right, you've got your bow in one hand, you've got your arrow in the other, and those come together.
02:03:22.000Arrow comes in this way, so then they grab onto the arrow.
02:03:25.000Remember, they're riding their horse, right?
02:03:27.000So they're bouncing up and down, and then they grab onto it, and they push the arrow forward, and they knock it, and they put their thumb around it, and it's the pressure.
02:03:35.000Of their finger against the knock that holds it against the bow.
02:03:39.000So if they're shooting right-handed, is their arrow on the right side of the bow?
02:03:47.000And it's the pressure of your finger that holds it against there so that when they're riding, they shoot.
02:03:52.000But why can't you do that with, like, nutritional finger tabs?
02:03:57.000Because when you grab on with your fingers, it's...
02:04:02.000You're not able to push it and not put enough pressure on it to hold it in there.
02:04:06.000And it has to do with arrow paradox and it's all kinds of weird stuff.
02:04:10.000So when you'll see a horse-mounted archer, when they shoot, they'll actually flip their bow because those bows aren't cut to center.
02:04:17.000So the arrow's pointed way to the right.
02:04:20.000Like a right-handed shooter, their arrow is pointed way to the right, because that bow, if you notice, it's not narrowed at all.
02:04:26.000Or it's very narrow, I mean, just a little bit.
02:04:28.000Right, so the width of the bow forces the arrow off the side.
02:04:31.000So that arrow is pointed way out to the right, so you have to actually flip it so that the string comes behind the arrow so it shoots straight where you're looking.
02:06:21.000There's been so many different holds on a string, and it was all based on basically wartime, and did they have to shoot off a horse or not?
02:06:30.000There was different ways of holding a bow upside down.
02:06:32.000There was I don't know specifically what the Comanches did, but all kinds of different ways of holding the string, and it was all based on necessity, or the length of the bow, you know, particular length of the bow, so it could be over a horse, shoot it mounted, shoot it, you know, like what we do now, we have blinds that are too short for stick bows,
02:06:51.000so we shoot shorter recurves, you know?
02:06:54.000So it's always fashioned to what the game is.
02:06:58.000The Mongols would shoot while the horse was in the air.
02:07:01.000They would time the shot so that as the horse was leaping in the air, there was less impact.
02:07:09.000That's when they would release the bow.
02:07:13.000It's all a feeling that comes up and you feel that impact and it becomes a timing thing.
02:07:18.000Your subconscious can put so many things together, but when you take that style of archery and you put it into precision, it's pretty difficult.
02:09:09.000It's really the sight picture that you get when your arrow's on the other side of the bow, and when you have a modern bow that's cut to center, you don't have to do the katra thing.
02:09:17.000So when I draw back, like, so when I hunt with my thumb, I don't have to judge range because I'm looking at the arrow from the side, right?
02:09:25.000Like, my eye is not 12 o'clock on the arrow.
02:10:24.000Yeah, your mind picks up the trajectory path very quickly.
02:10:26.000And then the control is the same, right?
02:10:29.000You have to talk yourself through specific moments, but the anxiety is higher because your body is under more tension.
02:10:36.000Yeah, it's the ultimate in concentration practice as far as I know.
02:10:40.000Well, a lot of people use it as a method of meditation.
02:10:45.000It is a martial art, but for a lot of people, there's something about, and I think this with a compound bow as well, there's something about The concentration that's required to shoot a great shot that clears your mind of everything else.
02:11:33.000It's such a fascinating thing where you take difficult tasks and use them as a vehicle for developing your concentration, your potential at other things.
02:12:13.000And one of the things that bothers me is, you know, there's celebrities out there that will take instruction from somebody, and I watch them shoot, and they punch the trigger their first time they're doing it.
02:12:45.000But the thing is, it's very difficult for those people, if you have an elite bow hunter, to explain that to this beginner they're giving a bow to.
02:12:55.000They just want them to feel good about hitting the target.
02:13:05.000It's just this thing where you know that this is going to lead down a very particular path that you've been and I've been and so many other people have been.
02:13:14.000You don't know what you're getting into here, you know?
02:13:48.000Do you think that someone can be a trigger puncher, meaning command that trigger, but do so along with these principles where you're like drawing back and aiming, setting it in,
02:14:04.000and just pull, pull, pull, pull, pull with your finger and have it go off?
02:14:09.000Yeah, but you wouldn't be punching it.
02:14:12.000So if you can work an archery release, index finger trigger, like you would a fine rifle trigger, then more power to you.
02:14:20.000It takes massive mental fortitude to do that.
02:14:23.000So we usually start people with the pulling where you hook in and then you pull your hand through the strap.
02:14:28.000And then once they gain control of that and they blueprint it, then we move them on to what we call the power squeeze, which is you link a couple of motor programs.
02:14:36.000So you actually, you're increasing expansion and you're moving your finger.
02:16:07.000Not so much, because when I explain it to them, they're like, because I'm talking about exactly what they do, and I know what's going through their head.
02:16:16.000And if they are, I know where their success is.
02:16:20.000Is it very high level, like there's no question that you're going to do it, or is there still some mystery in your shot?
02:16:27.000And it's easy for me to explain because of where I've come from.
02:16:35.000I don't think there are any natural-born shooters.
02:16:38.000I think there are natural-born decision-makers.
02:16:41.000And that's where you get these determined people that make decisions, and they can be successful in whatever their field is, especially if it's shooting or whatever.
02:16:52.000If you don't have enough determination, and that's where young people fall off because they don't, I mean, they haven't seen the adversity, right?
02:17:01.000They don't have the determination to actually override their own central nervous system.
02:17:06.000So you see lots of little kids that start out punching the trigger and their parents don't know what to do with them and the kids just get frustrated and then they leave, right?
02:17:46.000I think archery in general, but concentrating on a specific thing that's difficult to do is so valuable for life.
02:17:56.000Because if you can do that, it makes other things that seemed to be difficult before you encounter the extreme difficulty of archery, makes them seem easier.
02:18:06.000I think that's the key to life, is to do difficult things.
02:18:09.000Because if you do really difficult things, it makes other things less difficult.
02:18:14.000Now you see it on the internet everywhere, right?
02:19:20.000How long did it take you to blueprint the ShotIQ system?
02:19:23.000Because it's a very comprehensive system.
02:19:26.000For people that don't know, if you go to Joel's website, ShotIQ.com, there's a whole series of Things that you have to go through and steps.
02:19:37.000And I'm going to be honest, I didn't go through most of them.
02:19:39.000I went through some of them and I kind of got the gist of it.
02:19:42.000But then talking to you when you made me do the handwriting thing, I'm like, okay, now I understand what he's saying.
02:19:48.000You have to be very specific about each individual fine motor skill that's involved in this.
02:20:19.000How did you go about mapping it out and writing this program?
02:20:22.000Because your program is so comprehensive.
02:20:24.000It seems like there was a lot of refining involved in this.
02:20:28.000It basically, I mean, I shot those, it all comes back to those two shots because I'm like, okay, I said this at this moment, I said this at this moment, and I said this at this moment.
02:20:40.000And that was the mapping of the decisions.
02:20:43.000And then once you do that, then you just, how do you put this, you know, where do you need to put the concentration?
02:20:48.000You need to put it in shot activation movement.
02:26:59.000You practice your concentration, right?
02:27:01.000And you practice the true skills of precision shooting.
02:27:05.000You don't just practice your shooting, you're practicing your concentration through shooting.
02:27:10.000Well, I want to thank you for being here and I want to tell you that what you've done has been very, it's been very helpful to me and many, many other people and I really do believe that it translates to other things in life.
02:27:23.000It's so important to understand what's going on in your mind and how your mind is trying to fuck you over.
02:27:32.000Just years of evolution and just anxiety is all trying to fuck you over, but you can avert that and you can bypass it.