On this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast, Joe and Brian answer a Bigfoot question and talk about how much they love Ting, a cell phone service that gives you credit for unused service and gives you a discount on your bill if you don t use it. Joe also talks about his recent trip to Vancouver, Canada and how much he paid AT&T for the privilege of using their service for 24 hours straight, and why he thinks that's insane. Also, find out how much it cost him to get a new cell phone plan from Ting and why it's one of the best cell phone plans out there. Joe also explains why he doesn't want to go back to the old days when cell phones were $100 a month and had to pay $200 a month to use them. And he talks about how he got a deal on a new plan from Sprint that's a lot cheaper than what he was getting before he went on his trip to Canada. Thanks to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode and Ting for helping us out with the promo code JOE5. You get 10% off your first purchase of a new Ting plan when you enter the offer code Joesocialist and then you get a discount of up to $5 when you purchase your first month's worth of service. The offer code is code: JOE4 and the discount starts at $99. Don't miss it! You'll get $10 off your entire bill, plus an additional $5 off your next month when you sign up! Joe Rogans Experience membership when you place your first order of $35 or more! You won't have to pay more than $35 and get an ad-free version of the podcast! Enjoy! Subscribe to the pod, you'll get 20% off the ad-only version, plus a free shipping, plus I'll get an extra $5 promo code, and I'll send you an extra 15% discount when you use the discount, and you get an additional 15% off my service that starts on my next month! I'll be getting a freebie! and you'll be entered into the contest! FREE PROMO! JOE'S FRIENDS get 15% OFF THE JOE ROGAN EPISODE AND FREE PRICING AND A FREE PRODCAST AND PROGRAM WITH VIP PRODUCING AND VIPIZED TO CHECK OUT THE JOB RATE!
00:02:10.000But if you decide to purchase it, use the offer code, excuse me, use the offer code JOE5, just J-O-E and the number 5, all one word, and then you will save 10% off first purchase new accounts, including monthly and annual plans.
00:02:25.000So that's squarespace.com forward slash Joe, and the offer code is Joe and the number 3, excuse me, 5, Joe and the number 5. Don't use Joe the number three.
00:02:36.000You'll confuse the fuck out of people.
00:02:38.000They'll think, man, someone's just really stuck on those old March podcasts.
00:02:46.000If you have heard of Ting before, if you've heard of us talk about it on a podcast, one of the things that makes me so happy is when I run into people and they tell me that something that we're advertising on the podcast is exactly as promised.
00:03:03.000And that's one thing that I keep hearing about Ting.
00:03:05.000It's a really good cell phone service.
00:03:08.000It uses a Sprint backbone, but it's set up to be a lot cheaper than most cell phone plans, and it's set up in a really cool, ethical way, including if you...
00:03:19.000If you don't use the minutes that you signed up for, they knock you down to the next level and credit you at your next bill.
00:03:25.000They literally give you credit for unused service.
00:04:35.000And it's really fucking stupid of just AT&T even doing that because they know there's people like me that wouldn't...
00:04:40.000Because what they want you to do is they want you to call them, get on an international calling plan or data plan, choose which one you want, and then it would probably be cheaper.
00:04:49.000But what they're doing is like, hey, you didn't call us, so we're just going to fuck you.
00:04:53.000You know, I mean, where Ting's just like, hey, man.
00:06:01.000They have the coolest Android phones including the Samsung Galaxy Note 2. Which is that big giant thing.
00:06:07.000That's the one that you can, I mean, you really read websites on it, take pictures with it, you can watch movies on it, and looking at your photos on it is a completely different experience than a smaller phone.
00:06:15.000You know, the people that try it, it's a pain in the ass for people to get used to, but once they try it and they get used to that giant screen, you don't ever want to go back to a little tiny baby screen.
00:06:48.000We're also brought to you by Onnit.com.
00:06:52.000If you have never been to Onnit.com, the best way to describe it is it's a human performance website.
00:07:00.000And damn am I tired of doing commercials about this.
00:07:03.000It's impossible to think of new things to say about Onnit.
00:07:07.000If you've never heard of it before though, it's a company that we sell like kettlebells and battle ropes and vitamins and it's all like stuff that is designed to help human performance.
00:07:21.000Whether it's your endurance with Shroom Tech Sport or whether it's physical strength with things like battle ropes or maces.
00:07:29.000And I know maces and clubs, they look like weapons, but they're not weapons, okay?
00:07:37.000And it's exercise equipment that mimics the use of weapons because, believe it or not, those dudes who had to swing swords, you have to live in Game of Thrones time, you have to be strong as shit, man, to be able to swing a big giant piece of metal.
00:07:51.000I'm not advocating any sword use, but I'm saying when you use something like that, like a steel mace or a steel club, using these weapon-like pieces of exercise equipment, it actually makes you use your body as one whole unit, and it improves your athletic performance in other areas.
00:09:06.000There's a small handful of people that I would have liked to meet more than you.
00:09:11.000Having you on the podcast the first time was a true honor and a treat.
00:09:15.000And it's just cool to be in contact with you.
00:09:18.000I think you represent a very positive and a very unusual force in the world of art and in the world of consciousness as well.
00:09:29.000Your artwork is so moving and so representative of the psychedelic state that it actually has an effect on people.
00:09:38.000I think your artwork is probably some of the The most accurate psychedelic artwork I've ever seen.
00:09:47.000I can't tell you how many people I've been with that have seen your artwork or seen one of your pieces for the first time and just went, Fuck!
00:09:56.000That's like the usual reaction when they see one of your crazier pieces.
00:10:02.000The one that I always think of when I think of you is these three faces.
00:10:06.000They look like Egyptian sort of pharaoh type faces and they're all three.
00:10:11.000One is facing forward and two on the sides and it just seems like a DMT trip.
00:10:16.000It seems like you're tripping when you're watching it.
00:10:18.000Yeah, it's an attempt to point to the embeddedness that we are in time, the flow of time, and yet that there is always a timeless being that we also are,
00:10:59.000It really is a weird thing though to see it so clearly captured in artwork.
00:11:04.000And it's one of the weirdest things that people point to when they point to either ancient religious art or...
00:11:12.000You know, just various things where it's hard to find evidence of psychedelic use in their art.
00:11:22.000It's hard to find moments where they – like this is one.
00:11:26.000It's hard – there was nothing like this that came out of the old world.
00:11:31.000And it's fascinating to me because if McKenna was right with this idea of the stoned ape theory and that mushrooms probably shaped human culture, it's like clearly there were long periods of time probably where people weren't getting that.
00:11:47.000Yeah, but there was a continual evolution of the ability to express the dimensions of the world and of the imaginal worlds.
00:12:06.000And you can see it from cave art, which they now believe That even the Neanderthal may have had early form of cave art.
00:12:18.000So it wasn't just the Cro-Max, but we may have had ancestors who were also artists.
00:12:56.000Yeah, I only got a chance, I was running out the door when it was on, so I only got a chance to see it for about an hour, but it was fascinating.
00:13:04.000Just the idea that they were painting these incredible things, what was it, 30,000 years ago, 40,000 years ago, something crazy like that.
00:13:23.000When you really stop and think about 40,000 years to go from that to us, from drawing on rocks as being your main form of expression, like drawing buffalo, to 40,000 years later taking pictures of yourself and sending them to people on the other side of the planet.
00:15:42.000They just make it and they look at it and stare at it and they think it's awesome.
00:15:46.000Well, you know, in the back of the dollar bill, they have that somewhat Masonic-looking pyramid with the eye in the triangle floating above.
00:16:11.000And so the aspiration for a higher vision is what distinguishes maybe a sacred art and a psychedelic art that aims at a universal kind of mystical visionary experience and just kind of fantasy art.
00:16:32.000Because I think that with the Widespread use of psychedelics.
00:16:39.000So many people have seen these realms that that's why it causes a bit of a When people see it sometimes, it's because they've seen it inside themselves, but maybe not outside themselves.
00:16:55.000Yeah, it's almost like a familiar image.
00:16:59.000Even though it's so bizarrely outrageous, you're just like, wow, have I seen this goddamn thing before?
00:18:29.000Are you going to sell t-shirts for me?
00:18:32.000People would love to have this t-shirt, I guarantee you.
00:18:35.000Well, you know, there's an Entheon t-shirt that we're going to be working on.
00:18:40.000We should explain to people what Entheon is if they didn't listen to the first podcast.
00:18:47.000Essentially, you've created your own religion.
00:18:50.000Everybody's always said that wouldn't it be amazing if somebody created a religion...
00:18:54.000That actually wasn't based on anything ancient or based on trying to get your money, but based on the true principles of love and the word that you like to use all the time, God.
00:20:37.000And so by the power of that community that connects virtually with each other, The Kickstarter campaign for the building of Entheon has been going strongly and just creeping upward every day and just today broke the 100,000 mark.
00:21:07.000We're going toward 125, and we've got about nine days left.
00:21:13.000So how do they get to this, if people want to contribute to this Kickstarter?
00:21:16.000Well, they can go to kickstarter.com and go Entheon.
00:21:42.000It's kind of fascinating because if a lot of people who believe that psychedelic drugs are at the heart of almost all religions and psychedelic experience and psychedelic imagery in ancient religious artwork where there's things that represent mushrooms and shapes that are mushrooms.
00:22:02.000These incredible buildings that have been built for religion.
00:22:06.000I mean if you really stop and think about some of the greatest architectural achievements, it's been like the most beautiful ones have been the ones that were created for religions.
00:22:14.000It's like they – in whatever part of what they are that is good, wanting to achieve some higher level, they've done it with their art, with their architecture, with You look at some of the ancient Roman architecture that's dedicated to the Catholic Church,
00:24:09.000And so that's the foundation of the understanding is a sense of oneness.
00:24:21.000The idea of the networked self and of a planetary sense of humanity is, I think, wearing away the nationhood and nation-state I deal toward a hopeful and democratic but will struggle for some time with that.
00:24:50.000And I think the internet is what gives me the most hope because I think that it's the first time people have ever had a straight pipe.
00:24:58.000Everybody has a straight pipe to everybody else and information is settling and people are starting to understand, they have a greater understanding of what constitutes a happy life and how to achieve happiness and how to Surround yourself with positive people and how to express yourself in a healthy way.
00:27:02.000I recently read about a Schopenhauer essay where he talks about how almost everyone at a certain age looks back on their life and even events that appeared random during their occurrence appeared to have been fated.
00:27:25.000And took them in a particular direction and that really had become very important for them.
00:27:33.000And so it's curious because, I mean, it was like that with meeting Allison.
00:27:41.000It was like that with taking LSD. It was, you know, there...
00:27:49.000Momentous and life-changing kind of occurrences and they can turn you from a sour And suicidal person to a person that has a love for life and a commitment to trying to leave the most...
00:28:15.000the gift that you've been sort of requested to perform.
00:28:27.000You know, the service you've been asked to perform.
00:28:32.000Well, Entheon is a sanctuary of visionary art and that's always been our aspiration is to provide a more, on a more permanent basis,
00:28:48.000of course that's still an aspiration at this point, but That we did acquire the land of 40-acre property and we do have permission now after over a couple of years of negotiation and preparation of site plan and getting site plan approval from the town.
00:29:11.000We now have the permission to build Entheon and it is And the Kickstarter has been a way of connecting with this net of beings that have also taken on the imagining of it with us and the financing of it.
00:30:56.000It's very interesting because it makes a statement and I see it as within a lineage of the development of different kinds of sacred architecture and just one other little bud on that tree.
00:31:13.000But it's attempting to point to the underlying Unity of the quest for wisdom and compassion and all the different religious quests and that they have, they share also in common the angel of creative expression which is the imagination and all World religions were born in the creative imagination
00:31:44.000with the visionary mystical experience.
00:31:48.000There was the founding of Islam on the journey of Muhammad to the seventh heaven, and he encounters many visionary kinds of dimensions on the way.
00:32:12.000And, you know, you have Mary receiving an angel.
00:32:18.000You know, you have Moses talking to a burning bush.
00:32:23.000All of these are visionary mystical experiences and they're the foundations of many of the world religions.
00:32:31.000Mara is dispelled in the visionary experience with the Buddha.
00:32:38.000The soldiers, the Buddha turns the arrows into flowers.
00:32:43.000These are all kinds of visionary, mystical contact with an infinite, intermediate realm between the physical, material world and the transcendental world.
00:32:58.000And all the really mystical traditions have them.
00:33:07.000We've just kind of lost track of them, except now we've recovered them through psychedelics.
00:33:13.000Do you think that that was the heart of – you feel like that was the heart of all organized religion?
00:33:19.000That originally it was some sort of a psychedelic experience?
00:34:15.000One of the weird things about psychedelics is people always, even if it was one of the most profound experiences ever and one of the most amazing experiences ever, people will tell you, yeah, but it was just your mind playing tricks on you.
00:34:31.000And you can go, okay, but whether I really did travel to another dimension and communicate with infinite beings that were made out of love and understanding, who told me the secret to life is positive energy and positive...
00:34:45.000Even if it was just my imagination, I still experienced it.
00:36:41.000Well, I think that that's the other thing that the visionary experience with psychedelics does is it convinces people of the existence of the realms.
00:36:55.000And if they, you know, suddenly find themselves in a DMT space, you know, it's like very unsettling, perhaps.
00:37:04.000But then at least you can see that there is a there there.
00:37:13.000And so this inner consciousness experience that the The one self is having through us is something I'm just fascinated by.
00:37:31.000I'm fascinated by how the mystics get at the one.
00:37:34.000Do you think, and this has always been a very strange one amongst the mushroom connoisseurs of the world, some believe that in consuming that life form Which is really closer to animal than it is to plant,
00:37:56.000And then these visions that you're getting, this information that you're getting, just almost downloaded to you in a way that you can't understand or even comprehend most of it.
00:38:04.000I always describe trying to remember what you're learning on mushrooms like trying to grab fish in a river.
00:38:37.000And then a few are just life-altering.
00:38:43.000And the thing that really welded Allison and I together, because it was my first acid trip in her apartment that opened me up to the world of light and the world of a higher possibility.
00:39:02.000Beyond suicide and nihilism and all that.
00:39:05.000Was that how you were approaching life?
00:39:33.000We had a steady diet of kind of nihilist and existentialist authors and it reinforced the sense of absurdity because I thought that was what sophisticated artists would want to put into their work was a healthy dose of nihilism and cynicism and sarcasm and all that and yet that also felt very wrong.
00:42:08.000The people that I liked was the kind of philosophical tradition that was there.
00:42:14.000I loved Emerson for instance and Thoreau and William James there at Harvard and then later Tim Leary and Ram Dass and those guys.
00:42:25.000And so there was a tradition of a kind of altered states and they did a lot of the experimentation, the original experiments with Walter Pankey when he did the Good Friday experiment.
00:42:39.000It's an amazing city as far as like education goes.
00:42:42.000I think it has more colleges per capita than anywhere else in the world or in the country rather.
00:42:47.000And I also think if you think about like Harvard and MIT both in the same city.
00:42:52.000I mean it's Cambridge but what are the odds of that?
00:43:20.000No, well, for sure, trust me, there's a lot of luck involved.
00:43:24.000But, you know, growing up with people in Boston, like, it really definitely, when that fucking winter comes, man, you gotta be prepared.
00:43:33.000See, I love California, but there's something about it, like, I even look at my kids and I'm like, you know what, it'd do you good to freeze your ass off every now and then.
00:43:42.000It could do you good to realize that you got to get in the house because it's cold outside, you know, to know that that shit's out there.
00:43:48.000I think there's a humility that comes with having to deal with weather.
00:43:52.000And unfortunately, as we're saying this podcast, a bunch of people died in Oklahoma with a horrible tornado.
00:43:59.000So, you know, we have to acknowledge how sad that is and how fucking crazy it is that there's a part of the world where The sky becomes an angry machine, monster, you know, spinning wind that picks up semi-trailers and sends them flying through the air.
00:45:00.000The government should absolutely focus on situations like that.
00:45:06.000The idea that we shouldn't intervene in places where it's gotten so out of hand that half the people can't read.
00:45:11.000That should be thought of as an epidemic.
00:45:13.000Because all of those people that can't read are going to give birth to children that probably can't read either.
00:45:18.000And you have thousands, if not millions of people who can't read, and then they're going to enter into the world unprepared, unprepared to communicate, to exchange information, to be able to find things out for themselves.
00:45:29.000I have to take a bunch of people's words for things because you can't read things.
00:45:32.000I mean there's so much involved in being illiterate.
00:45:34.000The fact that there's like millions of potential crazy people that are going to go through life completely illiterate in 2013 and no one is up in arms about that.
00:46:00.000And when we're looking at human beings that are being raised in really terrible conditions, it should be one of the first things the whole world concentrates on.
00:46:12.000Before you concentrate on—I mean, it sounds so hippie, but it seems like if you really want to have a happy life, you've got to be doing more good than you are harm.
00:46:20.000And there's got to be a way to do that first.
00:46:25.000There's got to be a way to say, look, there's X amount of people in the world that are starving.
00:46:29.000Let's all globally chip in to try to stop that from happening so that these starving people don't have starving children who never get a chance to get some momentum in life and be comfortable and happy.
00:47:22.000Yeah, like he said that we, you know, I forget how it goes.
00:47:25.000It's something about, yeah, we sent, we came over here with your food and it occurred to us that you wouldn't need food if you people would move where the food is.
00:48:56.000Because what he was saying about the Bush administration, the first Bush administration, by the way, that was when he was railing against a machine.
00:49:06.000It's just like you could just take it and substitute the words and it works today.
00:49:10.000It worked with George W. It works with Obama.
00:49:16.000Just substitute this guy for that guy and it's still relevant.
00:49:20.000He gave birth to a whole completely different style of comedian.
00:49:25.000The style of comedian that came after him was like they wanted to educate you.
00:49:30.000Which is really weird because some of them were idiots.
00:49:32.000So there was on the wall of the back, the green room at the Dallas, no, the Atlanta punchline, there's a big sign that says, don't stop trying to be hicks.
00:49:51.000Yeah, it was just so amazing to watch that he like, I mean, Dr. Amit Goswami, he's a physicist, one of those particle guys, had a funny thing to say about people that were sort of faking it.
00:50:35.000Why should he be able to, like, listen, bitch, you know you don't know what you're talking about.
00:50:43.000Hicks made a lot of people aware of psychedelics, too.
00:50:46.000There was a lot of people that did not know anything about heroic doses or any of that shit.
00:50:51.000Hicks was the first stand-up comedian to ever talk about things that way.
00:50:55.000The other ones that would talk about mushrooms, they would be like, hey, we did mushrooms, and we got all goofy, and Bobby thought he was a horse.
00:51:33.000Because we resonate with the authenticity and the rawness that he projected and with a psychedelic perspective that allowed him a kind of brutal honesty and yet There was something remarkably magnetic because he was like a laser about the truth it seemed.
00:51:59.000That was what he wanted to be about even at the – and to reveal a kind of underlying darkness was something that he was an expert at.
00:52:48.000Once you start listening to those McKenna MP3s that are available online, you want to talk about something that will just crack your consciousness.
00:52:55.000Those McKenna MP3s of some of those lectures that he gave, he just...
00:52:59.000That guy had a very strange way of thinking.
00:54:00.000And we talked very specifically about the actual science behind the possibility of psychedelics creating language, particularly psilocybin.
00:54:10.000And he was explaining how it would make sense that language was created through the use of psilocybin by Virtue of the effect that psilocybin has in a very scientific way that I can't recreate.
00:54:48.000Why do you think that is that people would dismiss that?
00:54:51.000Why do you think it is that people would ridicule that?
00:54:56.000Like someone saying that you actually learned something from a psychedelic experience.
00:55:00.000You say that to the average person and they'll look at you with ridicule.
00:55:05.000Like how did that happen do you think?
00:55:07.000Well, I – I'd like the listeners to help us think of a word to place that in the same context as homophobia or misogyny or Something like racism.
00:55:32.000Why do people who alter their consciousness or who speak of it inspire the hysteria in people that don't take them?
00:57:25.000I think people have a lot of bad ideas and they don't necessarily think it's their responsibility to be right about something that they haven't experienced themselves.
00:57:35.000And that is – in society, it's sort of – it's looked down upon.
00:57:39.000It's looked down upon to alter your consciousness like that, that if you do it, you're probably looking to escape reality.
00:57:52.000So if you look at the foundations of all world religions as we've just gone through it, we can see that they were based on this visionary mystical experience.
00:58:02.000Which is what we're saying is of value for everyone.
00:58:06.000Yeah, but Alex, that was thousands of years ago.
00:58:10.000If Jesus came around today, no one would believe him.
00:58:13.000If there was some dude that was claiming that he was the son of God, he was giving wisdom to everybody, they'd probably put him in Guantanamo Bay.
00:58:20.000There's no way they would let that guy just run around running shit.
00:59:15.000And the second coming, through a kind of idiosyncratic In this tradition that is coming out of South America,
00:59:34.000a lot of ayahuasca churches all over the world are drinking and contacting this higher dimension through the ayahuasca.
00:59:50.000In no demeaning way, I call it the green Jesus.
00:59:55.000And Green Mary, really, because it's revealing the divinity of nature.
01:00:03.000And there's nothing more important right now than recognizing the divinity and the sacredness of nature and saving the life-web in whatever ways we can.
01:00:18.000Somehow turning our ship around from a self-destructive species.
01:00:23.000You know, this is the tight place we're heading into.
01:00:26.000It is, but hasn't it always been like this?
01:00:28.000Isn't this the yin and the yang that makes people human?
01:00:42.000We're adolescent species and wildly destructive.
01:00:46.000And we only exist through the grace of the kind of spirits that are tolerant because we're so creative, I think, that they hope that we will work on this together with the intelligence that's That's seeding today.
01:01:06.000And we've also been born in a super lucky spot.
01:01:09.000As far as the history of humanity, we didn't have to go through the people trying to make it across the west with wagon trains.
01:01:15.000We didn't have to go through any of that.
01:01:29.000Do you feel you have a responsibility?
01:01:35.000The fact that you have this voice and you're looked at as this sort of psychedelic visionary guy, do you feel like you have a responsibility to try to get information out, things that you've learned, things that you think possibly could help people?
01:01:50.000Because you obviously have a vision of things and you obviously have a very well thought out view of humanity and of consciousness.
01:01:59.000Do you feel that you have an obligation to express these thoughts?
01:02:02.000I think that anyone who experiences the deeper realms Maybe has a turnabout in their conscience.
01:02:13.000It's not just about higher consciousness, but there's a sense that if you're connected with everyone and with everything, then what's your moral responsibility or your ethical response to your interconnectedness?
01:02:33.000There's a bunch of hippies who just took their pants off right now.
01:03:42.000This is what I say is that a really profound psychedelic experience is like control-alt-delete for your consciousness where your brain… It reboots with a fresh operating system.
01:03:52.000And there's only one folder on the desktop.
01:03:54.000And the desktop folder says, my old bullshit.
01:03:57.000And you can either open it up and go right back into these predetermined patterns of behavior once the psychedelic experience has faded.
01:04:05.000Because it'll be more comfortable that way than sort of reassessing the way you've been living your life.
01:04:09.000Or, you know, you can hit delete and try to keep going and do DMT again.
01:04:16.000Try to get right back there, right when it stops being fresh.
01:04:23.000There's an evolutionary toehold that you can shine a light toward your future that you're headed toward rather than depend on the effects of past behavior.
01:04:41.000You know what's been really tripping me out is how many people that I know that are starting to have semi, at least, psychedelic experiences from doing yoga.
01:04:51.000I've had maybe one time in my life where I did yoga and I felt like I was high.
01:05:00.000Whatever it is, that switch that you can hit when you do the right poses for the right amount of time, with the right amount of energy, there's a weird switch that you hit at the end where I was literally high.
01:05:11.000But that's as far as I've ever taken it.
01:05:13.000I've never had a hallucination or I've never astrally projected.
01:05:17.000But I have heard some of the fucking craziest things from people that practice kundalini yoga, that if I didn't know them really well, and the way they were telling it to me is so matter-of-factly, I would say, this guy's crazy.
01:05:50.000And I was like, if that's possible, I've never really continually practiced Kundalini, but the people who really get into pranayamas and all that, they say that there's a wavelength that you can hit where you tap into that whatever it is, the pineal gland,
01:06:06.000whatever it is, the DMT factory, and you just boom!
01:06:09.000Open up the doorway and punch right through.
01:06:17.000Yes, and there are different kinds of like the idea for Entheon.
01:06:23.000The idea for Entheon really came about first of all through Allison and I had a routine of yoga and then meditation and during that period basically Instead of,
01:06:39.000like, kind of forcing myself to imagine something, I was saying, well, God, what do you want?
01:06:46.000You know, what would you like me to put on there?
01:06:51.000And so it showed this, the interconnected kind of Godhead type thing.
01:08:05.000Well, what I've found is that by doing something like a podcast, having conversations with people like you and my friends that come on, you're putting out the kind of conversations that we're having right now.
01:08:22.000You're putting these out to people that I think we're good to go.
01:08:43.000These people like Chris Ryan or Daniele Bolelli or all these interesting people that I get to talk to on a regular basis.
01:08:48.000To me, that's a beautiful little situation that I've stumbled into.
01:08:54.000And for me, I feel very fortunate just to be able to have all these conversations with people.
01:09:01.000Now there's a sense of obligation because I know that people enjoy these conversations and I don't want to ever have them think that I'm not going to do it anymore.
01:09:10.000We're going to keep this going like it's fun.
01:09:22.000We've created this group of people that listen to the podcast and maybe they've never had really introspective conversations with people.
01:09:35.000Maybe they've never really thought about Living in another part of the world or maybe they've never thought about expanding the life that they live outside of this one realm of consciousness that they've inhabited their whole life, one way of looking at the world,
01:09:51.000whether it's racist or gluttonous or whether they've just been abusing their body or whether they've just been lazy about getting things done.
01:10:01.000And when you hear a podcast Where you get a chance to see all these different people's takes on things.
01:10:10.000From Everlast, the singer, to my friend Joey Diaz.
01:10:14.000And all these different people's takes on things.
01:11:14.000One of the happiest things that I've gotten from this podcast is people coming up to me telling me that it changed the way they think about things.
01:11:57.000When do a group of supportive listeners become a community?
01:12:02.000And it's kind of like we see that today people would like to gather in a lot of different places and to coalesce for a few hours and have a temporary community.
01:12:23.000Well, I think we'd like to have a full community, but we don't trust people to not get fucking kooky.
01:12:36.000I'd really like to just watch TV. I don't want you coming over my house.
01:12:38.000So there's a certain boundary that we all have to set up.
01:12:41.000That's why the church model of the, you know, there's a time when you devote some time to this other thing, too, that's going on that's more of a community thing.
01:12:53.000That's why I ask about it, because it's something that we've been thinking about a lot.
01:13:04.000I told you, all the fringe people from all over the planet are coming to you, my friend.
01:13:09.000They're going to zoom in on you, along with some cops, probably.
01:13:12.000You're going to get some undercover cops that are going to try to pretend to be your friends and try to get deep into the organization and find out you're for real.
01:13:19.000And then eventually they'll admit it to you.
01:13:25.000We don't give anything to anyone or really advocate that much.
01:13:33.000We do tell the truth about what happened to us.
01:13:36.000And I'm of the belief that the The discovery of LSD 70 years ago this year is quite a miraculous occurrence and probably of a religious importance to humanity in the great scheme of things.
01:14:01.000And I think 70 years after the crucifixion, basically, it wasn't going so well for the Christians, you know.
01:14:11.000And so there's a time, you know, and that's why I was trying to think of, oh, this is kind of like a civil rights issue that is pointing toward a higher freedom of consciousness and special places.
01:14:40.000Potentially dangerous substances and in the wrong hands at the wrong time and things like that can be a terrible weapon even.
01:14:49.000So they're definitely things that shouldn't be toyed with and some people should stay very clear of them.
01:14:58.000They happen to be something that gave us tremendous insight and I think many other people as well, not because I said so, but because people naturally have It's just a weird thing that we have once we write things down on paper.
01:16:30.000It was the best thing that ever happened to you.
01:16:32.000I mean, Johns Hopkins University is now starting a public study saying that just one mushroom trip 20 years ago has a profound effect on personality and improved people's outlook and their level of happiness.
01:16:51.000How many people are like, well, I just needed that reset, and with a loving person that I meet, I have a great time, and then all of a sudden, boom, I'm off to the races on a totally different track.
01:17:01.000How many people have to say that before...
01:17:04.000We, as a culture, go, well, this Alex Gray is way cooler.
01:18:41.000They're one of the best ways to affect those.
01:18:44.000And like we said, it doesn't have to be a drug.
01:18:46.000You can get psychedelic experiences through meditation.
01:18:49.000If you've practiced it enough, allegedly, he says he's done it.
01:18:53.000I've never got there other than getting high.
01:18:55.000Like you're saying, doing yoga and then meditation, even not for a long time.
01:19:01.000There are many different approaches to meditation, from the simplest kind of watching your breath to a kind of, Alison talks about an aesthetic kind of reception of considering each moment for the beautiful,
01:19:24.000You know, we listen with an ear of appreciation and things like that.
01:19:29.000If we had an aesthetic scrutiny and could see the beauty of Of our cosmic situation, you know, that we evolved to this point where we can talk to each other through a network of intelligence and light and share potential connection,
01:19:48.000community, even of a new wave of consciousness that's spread throughout the world.
01:19:56.000I feel like these podcasts and things like that are the mushroom fruit Of a mycelial body of underground intelligences that interweave and then they pop out on these special occasions.
01:20:15.000It's a door to open people up to people like you, to new possibilities, new ways of thinking.
01:20:21.000And sometimes that's all you need is just one unique idea that's put in your head by someone that you don't even know.
01:20:27.000Just listening to them talk to somebody else And that thought sends you off in a different direction.
01:21:34.000And that's why you're always choosing a supportive and safe setting, if possible, and under ideal conditions, even those that you don't have to worry about anything about it,
01:21:50.000that you can relax totally and that you're supported by loving friends, so that you feel that you can go as deep and as high as possible.
01:22:02.000And with those conditions and your favorite music, we like to use a kind of spiritually uplifting Bach and stuff like that.
01:22:12.000Kind of heavy for some people, but I love that stuff.
01:22:14.000I thought you were going to say Christian rock.
01:22:18.000But I like, you know, like we used to listen to musical offering all the time and it's so eerie, but it favored the tripping mind with all the fugues and things like that.
01:22:29.000The infinitizing is really there in Bach.
01:22:33.000I forgot to tweet people and tell them that we're live.
01:25:19.000And the place that we inhabit, it used to be called Deer Hill.
01:25:26.000And Deer Hill was a United Church of Christ congregation and also an interfaith kind of camp.
01:25:36.000So they had a very trans-denominational or interfaith kind of approach to spirituality.
01:25:45.000And they had it on the market for like seven years and finally when we found each other we felt like we had a lot in common.
01:25:53.000That our message was an attempt at a universal message of spirituality and interconnectedness and using nature as a setting for this kind of soul renewing kind of surrounding in a creative environment.
01:26:14.000So we do all kinds of creativity classes there from dancing and movement and yoga and meditation and things like that.
01:26:28.000The inside is done, it's just the outside needs to be completed with the artwork?
01:26:34.000With Entheon, what we have is an old carriage house.
01:26:43.000And it's been structurally reinforced and we've actually put quite a bit into it already in sealing and shoring it up.
01:26:52.000But then we have to take the roof off and we have to establish new steel foundations in all the corners.
01:27:00.000And we're building the heads 16 feet away from the entry to the brick building.
01:27:11.000So what you'll have is a large atrium in front of the brick building when you walk into Entheon.
01:27:19.000And with this, there will be the reception, there will be the bathroom and coat closet and things like that, but there will also be a fountainhead there that will mount against the wall of this old carriage house.
01:27:33.000So you'll see this dramatic kind of 75 by 23 foot high wall of brick.
01:29:06.000And then I showed it to Ryan Tottle, who's an amazing digital sculptor and visionary artist.
01:29:16.000And he works at Disney, actually, during the day.
01:29:18.000And so he took this into three dimensions and made the actual 3D model that's sized perfectly to the building.
01:29:30.000So this will be printed out in sections and will have basically a foam printout That then will be corrected and things like that and then a mold will be taken from that.
01:29:45.000Then in that mold we shoot this concrete, thin, kind of inch thick stuff.
01:29:53.000It's got pins on the back that attach to a steel armature and that armature attaches to the building.
01:30:21.000I mean you're like, hey, they've always Well, I mean, this is tiny, tiny little expression compared to magnificent temples that are all over the world and things, you know.
01:30:33.000Well, there's no Pope behind you with horse carriages filled with gold to pay for the construction.
01:30:40.000But there's people who are pledging 10 bucks and 30 bucks and 50 bucks.
01:30:43.000And I should tell them that they get something from that.
01:30:46.000You have a bunch of different tiers set up of different things that you get, whether it's artwork or How many different levels do you have of possibilities?
01:31:59.000It would be the cop that pretended to be one of you guys that would freak out and pull his gun so that the real cops could come in and lock you guys down because you were violent and you had guns.
01:32:10.000That would be what I would do if I was a cop and I was trying to shut you hippies down.
01:32:13.000Well, we actually have made friends with the local police because we're grateful for their service.
01:32:32.000We absolutely depend on them as a community.
01:32:36.000And there's a lot of good ones, you know, and the people don't want to address that.
01:32:41.000There's a lot of cops out there that are nice, despite all the shit they see every day.
01:32:45.000We have friends who are sort of high up in that in the local region, and they're just some of the nicest people and most compassionate, actually, because they're They go to people who are in trouble.
01:33:07.000We're just saying there's a need for it and a lot of them are good.
01:33:10.000And if you're in a community that's accepting you guys and Did you have a little weird thing where they didn't want you guys to be non-taxed?
01:37:58.000Well, when my problem child wanted to come out in English, Albert Hoffman wanted someone who was responsible to his word and to his meaning would translate his words for him.
01:38:14.000I'm so ignorant I wasn't aware that Albert Hoffman didn't speak English.
01:38:34.000So Ott played and Jonathan Singer, who's a – I call him a light slinger and VJ Extraordinaire.
01:38:42.000had made a printout of the Entheon kind of altar DJ booth or I guess electronic musician station and so these wonderful musicians played behind something,
01:39:00.000a console that looked a lot like the Entheon thing.
01:39:03.000So it printed it out and Ryan had made this model for the booth And it was like a proof of concept of this is how we're going to print out the building.
01:39:29.000And you're going to have a positive effect on a lot of people who come through those doors.
01:39:35.000That's everything you would ever want out of a religion, a center where people can meet, a community, and the ability to push something positive out those doors.
01:39:52.000And so that's ultimately why it's there.
01:39:57.000We also see that in a dozen years or 2020, if possible, if we're able to sort of pay back some of our loans and various things over time,
01:40:14.000we look to build the actual chapel of sacred mirrors in the meadow, if possible.
01:40:21.000And that if we're able to do that, that we would move our art out of the Entheon and have it as a sanctuary for visionary art from artists from around the world, many of whom have already come and done presentations there,
01:40:38.000and actually some of them are in the collection already and stuff.
01:40:43.000So it will be an active center for the promotion of this I think you need your own podcast.
01:42:33.000It's about, as I said, holding up a sacred mirror for people.
01:42:41.000And if there's an element of inspiration for their own creative lives, whatever it is, then we can see that that's a spirituality that works for you,
01:42:59.000because you have a creative life that has meaning for you.
01:43:03.000So you're seeking to inspire other people to be more creative as well.
01:43:09.000It's about transformation of the consciousness so that we can regard nature as a sacred ally.
01:43:20.000That we need to learn from and to stop abusing and that we can save what we can of the life web and have a humanity that lives for hundreds of thousands of years instead of snuffs itself out in a stupid Oops,
01:44:30.000But people in general, I think, feel that and they start to feel like the, oh, Wow, how can we turn it around?
01:44:41.000That's why I think that people like Paul Stamets and other visionary thinkers who understand more about the intricacies and intelligence of Say the fungus,
01:44:58.000that we have a lot to be hopeful about.
01:45:04.000And if we put to use the technology and the intelligence that is already available.
01:47:56.000But it's one of those concepts where you start talking about the God is the one and the one is the Lord and people go, what is this crazy fuck going on about your wife?
01:48:05.000But geez, okay, you take it from a scientific perspective.
01:48:09.000Most are still on the Big Bang that 13.7 billion years ago there was nothing and then kablam, 13.7 billion years ago we're talking about it.
01:48:55.000Because despite all the crazy shit that's in the world, the million nuclear weapons that could destroy every single thing, we haven't done it yet.
01:49:43.000And the consciousness that was born during the 60s, the civil rights era, the feminism really came on strong, even eco-consciousness, all of these elements and gay rights.
01:50:04.000The equality That element started to come to the surface, so a sense of conscience about accepting more diversity and living up to our idea about we the people,
01:50:23.000And I think that the re-enfranchisement of people, like just by saying, okay, gay marriages, that's okay, you know, so then other nations say, okay, that's okay.
01:50:34.000You know, so suddenly a stigma And a prohibition on a group of people has been lifted and they're re-enfranchised into the society, at no harm to the society, even benefit to it.
01:50:50.000Likewise, the cannabis user eventually, I believe, should be reintegrated into society and the world.
01:50:58.000This will show also an evolutionary step.
01:51:05.000Because this is the recognition of the divinity of nature.
01:51:11.000I think there's every reason to be optimistic and although there are some really bad things about the world today.
01:51:17.000The financial system is crazy and corrupt.
01:51:20.000It's too easy to manipulate and everybody knows it's rigged and we still have to use it and it's still the thing that pays off lobbyists and moves decisions that favor corporations instead of the general public.
01:51:34.000We still know that there's a lot wrong with the world.
01:51:38.000We're learning more about humans, about behavior, about just information itself, about technology, about our place in the universe.
01:52:00.000I don't think it's possible to avoid all that.
01:52:02.000Without some gigantic monstrous catastrophe, I think if you were looking at a graph and you look at the headspace of the average American person from 1960 and look at the headspace in 2013,
01:52:18.000you're dealing with a completely different Educated individual.
01:52:24.000You're dealing with a level of understanding about the way the world works that's very different from at any other time.
01:52:31.000Because almost any question that you've ever had can be answered on your phone within a matter of seconds.
01:52:37.000And although that seems so normal, that changed the whole world.
01:52:47.000We just got so used to watching movies on our phone that we don't even think it's weird that it's just coming through the air into this little thin wafer thing that's made out of glass and metal in your pocket that you get to watch movies flying through the air.
01:53:23.000In order to get the highest clearance and things.
01:53:27.000As part of his interview, he said that he still believed that it was one of the most important events in his life and his psychedelic experiences.
01:53:43.000And many of the people that they worked with, of course, They wondered how many times they had tripped and things, and how far out are you?
01:53:54.000And was part of the openness to new ways of thinking that it allowed.
01:54:02.000Just as you were saying that after a psychedelic experience you have this folder that's called my old bullshit and then you have this possibility wide open in front of you.
01:54:15.000My goodness, a full new possibility there.
01:54:19.000You can jump back in the bag that you already know or you can forge ahead into a new territory.
01:54:50.000And it's almost that biologically we can't keep up with all the technological evolution, although it's not the correct term to use, technological evolution.
01:55:59.000It's a little chip with GPS in there, and there's a kill switch.
01:56:03.000It's not a fucking electrocution bolt into your brain if you say anything bad about the government.
01:56:08.000There's some movies being sort of made with that hypothesis, I think, and I always imagine the The interconnection of everyone being the ability to control the net and the vision.
01:56:30.000Do you think at all about the technological singularity?
01:56:34.000Do you follow Kurzweil and all that singularity stuff?
01:57:58.000Well, just the idea that there will be a time when this will be a problem, you know, that you cannot distinguish between a human being and a robot.
01:58:21.000I'm naïve to think that it isn't, but I have this feeling just like people have a gaydar or know who's Jewish and who's not and things like that.
01:58:38.000That's pretty subtle and intangible things.
01:58:42.000To say that all body armor and fact of your mechanicalness and inability to generate a subtle field even perhaps that's a heartbeat and things,
01:59:02.000these things are probably part of our unconscious Awareness of a human being.
01:59:10.000So I'll see as this – as it develops, artificial intelligence and robotics and things, I'm sure they'll – part of it will evolve toward that.
01:59:23.000I really feel like we're not giving technology the credit it deserves in that I think it might be alive.
01:59:30.000And I know that sounds completely ridiculous because we're so sure that life is like us.
01:59:36.000We're so sure that life has cells and has blood and it either consumes oxygen or it could be plant-based life.
01:59:44.000But we know what life is and that's not life.
01:59:47.000But no, because eventually when you turn it on, If it eventually gets to the point where it can reproduce on its own and think for itself and defends itself or knows how to stay alive or has instincts or knows how to repair itself, then what exactly is that?
02:00:01.000How come it's not life-wide because it doesn't have what?
02:00:07.000If it's reproducing and thinking and altering its environment and then moving forward and creating new energy sources and figuring out how to better use resources, if it becomes intelligent life and some crazy asshole says and programs in, hey, defend yourself and reproduce as soon as you can,
02:00:31.000And it's going to get to the point, if this woman is recreating her wife, It's going to get to a point where that's going to be indistinguishable.
02:00:40.000There's going to be an artificial you.
02:00:43.000It might even be an artificial you that's exactly you.
02:00:47.000It's your consciousness in another body.
02:00:49.000You might be able to live several lives at once.
02:00:51.000Just in case you fuck one of them up, you got a bunch of other good lives going on simultaneously.
02:00:56.000Well, if you do the right Tibetan Buddhist practices, I think you can do that anyway.
02:01:07.000The other element of the virtual heaven that I love that Martine and Bina have talked about and the TerraSem movement that they've been putting forward is that we can program as much of the information about our lives and about You know,
02:01:37.000by filling out basically an elaborate questionnaire.
02:01:41.000And this also records our voice, telling stories and things like that, and the way that we inflect and things.
02:01:49.000So these modulations and things become part of what could be a virtual being.
02:01:58.000It can be, for the virtual heaven, just a facsimile, a 3D model, That's based on the sort of 3D mapping of the head and maybe the chest or something like that.
02:02:17.000So you have a sense of the person and you might ask a virtual grandma or grandpa who passed on several decades ago But the great-grandkids can now access them via this virtual grandma that can say,
02:02:36.000Yes, when I was growing up, blah, blah, blah.
02:02:38.000You know, and share a story or something.
02:03:16.000It seems to me that a Blade Runner type scenario is inevitable, though, where they have a life that...
02:03:23.000Is artificial but acts so much like us that it itself doesn't even know it's artificial.
02:03:28.000Because if you're going to program a robot correctly to be an artificial person that acts like a person, you don't tell them it's artificial.
02:03:36.000You want them thinking they're real, right?
02:07:21.000But if you look at the earliest kind of human-animal hybrid cave art, you have something that looks oddly like a Sasquatch-type thing, because it's just a marriage of the stag and the human,
02:07:40.000and so it's got characteristics of the animal and the human together.
02:07:44.000They did a lot of that stuff really early on.
02:08:58.000It's embodying a kind of Dr. Seuss-like zany truth about the world of creatures that we're...
02:09:12.000And it's acknowledging that we're part of an almost interdimensional web of creatures.
02:09:23.000And I think that the early stuff, the Egyptian and all the cave art and things like that, really did come out of a place of higher awareness, that that was the kind of Well,
02:09:38.000like a lot of psychedelic drugs have animal ideas embedded in them.
02:09:59.000And there could have been many different psychedelic compounds we don't even know about anymore that these people had found and that put them together with these ideas of combining animals and human into one form.
02:10:16.000And the thing that I found refreshing in the Egyptian temples and things was How easy it was to transpose a head and stuff of one creature and another onto a human body and how they were considered the gods.
02:10:36.000Now, if your job is to sacralize the nature field, to give a sense of the place that we live in is a gift of a divine creator, then if your gods actually are different animals or they have animal characteristics,
02:10:59.000you're more apt to treat the animal with some respect or As being an aspect of that divinity.
02:11:08.000And so the translation of the archetypal symbol of a particular animal spirit and a divine human form is to acknowledge our oneness with that kind of the field of the animal spirits.
02:11:29.000And it's a very shamanic Kind of thing to do.
02:11:33.000And it was part of many of the Mesopotamian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian, the Greek Sphinxes and things like that.
02:11:44.000There's this fusion from the very earliest cave art all the way through the great religious kinds of things.
02:14:16.000You know, that's like Catholics would never take that.
02:14:18.000If you had a sleeping pill that was called the sacrament, the Jesus sacrament, they'd be like, hey, fuckhead, you can't call it that.
02:14:24.000But people are like, Soma, yeah, that's in another country, and we're America, and we're just going to call it Soma because we like the name.
02:14:39.000And it put the person who imbibed it into a state of connectedness with the divine.
02:14:48.000And Soma was also recognized as the source of many things, including clothing and stuff like that.
02:14:56.000As an artist, why do you think that you were the first person to really encapsulate the tryptamine experience?
02:15:04.000Because all these other people that didn't have these amazing works of art The only people that came close to capturing the tryptamine experience to me were the ancient Egyptians.
02:15:14.000There's a lot of ancient Egyptian stuff like just Tutankhamen's headdress and the gold.
02:15:32.000You can almost hear music, like some kind of tryptamine music when you're watching these hieroglyphs and you're seeing these images.
02:15:42.000The symbols, even if you don't understand what they mean, when you're looking at these symbols run together, your mind starts to try to form patterns.
02:15:49.000And you start to try to think the way these people were thinking and see these incredibly complex geometric shapes that they had turned into buildings.
02:16:19.000idea to the land of Kazim and have been, you know, the idea of these, the Neturu, the family of gods in Egypt, has really made a strong imprint on me.
02:16:40.000When we went over there, Alison and I have been back a couple of times.
02:17:22.000And out tumbled the rest of the brothers and sisters including Thoth and Isis and Osiris and Nephthys, his sister.
02:17:33.000So basically Isis and Osiris got together and they were the football hero and the cheerleader match made in heaven and all that.
02:17:44.000And they were just like Celebrated and stuff, and Set was kind of barren, you know, and he was kind of, you know, just probably a little jealous of his brother,
02:18:00.000And Nephthys wanted a child, and so, anyway, she fooled Osiris into an affair, perhaps Anubis, the dog-headed,
02:18:17.000The embalmer of the netherworlds was the result of that.
02:18:22.000Well, of course, Set was extremely disturbed and decided that he was going to find a way to kill Osiris, which eventually happened and he cut him up and threw him all over the Nile.
02:18:35.000And so Isis was extremely distraught and she went around finding or remembering parts of the dismembered god.
02:18:47.000And each place where she found a hand or a foot or something like that, a temple was built.
02:18:54.000And so you would go down the Nile and remember the god.
02:19:06.000Now, I think that, of course, it's the goddess that's been lost, that's been dismembered, the Mother Earth.
02:19:17.000And so the idea is to – we have different stations on the land where there will be a foot, there will be hand and different things like that.
02:19:26.000They'll represent different elements of the dismembered mother.
02:20:54.000Yeah, people are freaking out like, what the fuck did you do?
02:20:59.000Well, you know, there's different feelings in the different societies about these things.
02:21:06.000You know, the Taliban just destroyed a huge Buddhist sculpture which was a heritage type site that It had been there for thousands of years.
02:21:17.000Probably the CIA pretending to be the Taliban.
02:21:44.000We were talking about the Boston bombings.
02:21:47.000We were like, you can't do that without ideology.
02:21:50.000Like, no one is able to do something like that without ideology because you have to have something that allows you to think that that's the correct thing to do.
02:22:57.000That somehow the soul and the ego is always in a kind of holy war with each other, that we desire the one true spirit to win out and to have love save the day and all these things,
02:24:46.000It's a new form of intelligence that we're living amongst.
02:24:49.000Are you going to download your consciousness into a computer when the time comes?
02:24:53.000We'll have to see what's available, you know.
02:24:57.000I love Martine's response because I was saying, whoa, hey, you know, I don't know about a soul and a robot and stuff like that, but she was saying like, Well, who's to say that a soul, if there were a disembodied spirit, wouldn't like hanging around a robot of itself for a while?
02:25:17.000Or who's to say you're not going to create a zombie in the next dimension because a person is going to be born without a soul because you put it in somebody's fucking computer.
02:25:23.000And so then all of a sudden the next dimension is like the dawn of the dead.
02:25:26.000You've got a bunch of zombies running around.
02:26:44.000Well, there's something timeless within that.
02:26:47.000Maybe he downloaded himself into a computer right before he kicked off.
02:26:53.000I think into all of our consciousness.
02:26:55.000And the computers are just the external storage devices.
02:27:01.000What's really the cool thing is that we're connected with all of it, just consciousness-wise.
02:27:06.000What do you think the next stage of consciousness is going to be?
02:27:08.000Do you think it's going to be some sort of an ability to read each other's minds, to integrate with each other, to exchange information freely through the air, like a Wi-Fi signal?
02:27:22.000I think that it's an inevitable evolutionary development.
02:27:28.000However, some of it's going to take training and some of it's going to take an orientation toward it and an opening up the ideas of a I have a completely uneducated faith in the fact that people far smarter than me are going to continue to do awesome work.
02:28:00.000I'm convinced that they're going to continue to come out of school and figure new things out.