In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast, I talk about a certain piece of technology that's been around for a long time, and then I get into a heated debate about whether or not it's a good or bad thing. I also talk about the fact that I don't think I've ever read a book that was written about cannabis, and I think that's pretty cool. And then I go on a little rant about how I'm not a fan of the Green Goddess, but I think she's a wonderful human being and I love her for being a woman, so why not have her write a book about it? Also, if you use the code "JRE" at checkout, you'll get 10% off your entire purchase with code "Rogan" and I'll give you a discount on Onnit, too. Onnit is a human performance website that sells stuff you can use to improve your health and performance. I think you're going to love it. I'm also going to like Onnit and I can't wait to try Onnit's stuff, so let me know what you think! Tweet me if you like it and what you thought of it! Timestamps: 3:00 - What do you think of Onnit? 4:30 - Is it a good thing or bad? 5:15 - What are you think? 6:00- What's your favorite cannabis strains? 7:30- Is it better than cannabis? 8:20 - What is your favorite plant? 9: What are your favorite type of cannabis strain? 10:00: What kind of plant you like to grow? 11: Which one do you like? 12:15- How do you use it the most? 13:00 16:40 - How powerful are you? 15:40- Are you a mystery ally? 17:10 - Are you in a good mood? 18:20- How powerful? 19:00 | How powerful is your cupcake? 21:10 | How much do you need to grow your own pot? 22:40 | What's a mystery bench? 23:30 | Which plant you're a mystery? 26:30 27:20 | How are you better than me? 25:00 + 22:00 & 27:10 28:20 // 27:40
00:01:51.000Hover is a domain name company that's owned by the same people that own Ting, and you know how much we love them.
00:01:57.000Hover has the same sort of principles.
00:02:00.000Hover is a really easy website to use, very intuitive.
00:02:04.000I actually have domains that I have personally registered So I have actual experience doing it, and if a monkey like me can pull it off with no hitches, you can too.
00:02:15.000They also offer good stuff like, they give you free things like, who is domain name identity guard, or your anonymity.
00:02:24.000So you don't have to, the actual word is privacy, who is domain name privacy.
00:02:30.000So if you have some freaky website And you don't want people to know where you live, which is probably a good idea.
00:02:37.000They will do that for free, whereas other companies, who is domain name privacy is actually something you have to pay for, which is kind of silly.
00:02:45.000If you go to hover.com forward slash Rogan, you will save 10% off your domain name registrations.
00:02:55.000And we're also brought to you by Onnit.com, as always.
00:02:58.000I've always searched for a way to describe what Onnit's supposed to be, and it's like a human performance website.
00:03:06.000What we sell is all stuff that we find to be beneficial, whether it's for Fitness, like kettlebells and battle ropes and weight vests and medicine balls and chin-up bars and all sorts of things that I think are very beneficial for fitness to get your body in shape to do things.
00:03:24.000Foods like hemp protein powder, walnut, almond, cashew, butter.
00:03:30.000We try to just sell you a bunch of healthy shit.
00:03:33.000Whatever hemp protein bars, which are really delicious and nutrient-dense, And I think the idea behind the company is just sell shit that you would use.
00:03:44.000Sell shit that you would buy and you would use.
00:06:20.000But then, when I started writing Fingerprints of the Gods, which was the biggest book I've ever done, a five million copy bestseller all around the world, when I started writing that, I thought I'll experiment.
00:06:33.000Let's see if I can be stoned and write.
00:06:41.000And I like being stoned so much that, in a way, It urged me to just write all the time because then I had this incredibly good reason to be stoned all the time.
00:06:53.000I took away all the physical boredom of sitting there in my chair in front of my computer screen.
00:07:00.000Just everything went away and I drifted into this space where I could explore ideas and manifest those ideas down on the page.
00:07:10.000That's when I began What was to become, ultimately, an abusive relationship with cannabis.
00:07:16.000That I would fire up, in those days, my joint or my pipe at 9 or 10 in the morning, and I'm a hard worker.
00:07:25.000I work 16 hours a day very often when I'm writing, so come 2 o'clock the next morning, I'd still be there smoking away.
00:07:32.000And as the years went by, this became a permanent daily pattern for me.
00:07:39.000Whether I was writing or not, I would be stoned From the moment I got up until the moment I went to bed.
00:07:45.000And most people who came by my house or talked to me on the phone, they would have had absolutely no idea because I was completely in control.
00:08:01.000And this is how it went on for many years.
00:08:03.000And later on, around about 2005, actually, I think, perhaps a little earlier, one of my kids told me that, you know, this stuff, this smoke is You don't need to have combustion products.
00:08:42.000And this is one thing that I would say.
00:08:44.000If we lived in a regime, an irrational regime, where there was no attempt by the government to police our states of consciousness, we could have much more choice in the kind of cannabis we get hold of.
00:08:54.000For example, I would have liked to have cannabis with much more CBD and maybe less THC. But the varieties I was smoking were very, very THC loaded.
00:09:09.000I mean, it depends how much you buy into the research on this, but a lot of good science has been done and the suggestion is that THC can promote or reveal...
00:09:21.000I don't want to blame the herd for anything.
00:09:24.000It can reveal certain psychotic tendencies in oneself.
00:09:28.000And this is the well-known paranoia which many people associate with smoking cannabis.
00:09:38.000So the natural herb is balanced with CBD and THC. And it looks after you very well.
00:09:44.000But where we go into intensive breeding of the herb, focusing on the element that makes you really high, which is the THC, then we get a herb that is somewhat unbalanced as a result of the interference of humanity.
00:09:58.000But you get more bang for your buck, you know.
00:10:02.000And I began to like a particular variety called cheese.
00:10:07.000I think it's called cheese because it smells like old socks or like a blue cheese.
00:10:15.000I found a grower who lived local to me who just had amazing green fingers and I would buy from him and I would sometimes have five or six ounces of the herb in my house because I was blazing through this stuff at a tremendous rate.
00:10:32.000That's enough to you where you could get in trouble for dealing.
00:10:35.000So that's where the paranoia starts to become legitimate, you know, because actually they can break down your door and they can confiscate your home and take away your liberty and fuck you up forever.
00:10:58.000Did you get paranoid when you were high?
00:11:00.000Well, this is one of the reasons why...
00:11:02.000Look, what happened to me was that around about 2003, I started, for reasons of research initially, working with ayahuasca, the vine of souls.
00:11:18.000This is the powerful psychedelic brew which has been consumed by shamanistic cultures in the Amazon for thousands and thousands of years.
00:11:26.000And it's not called the vine of souls for nothing.
00:11:30.000It's an extraordinary portal into other realms, and in some ways those realms are associated with death and perhaps what waits for us after death.
00:11:40.000Nobody knows the answer to that, but in ayahuasca you have certain experiences relating to that.
00:11:45.000And right from the beginning when I started to drink ayahuasca, I mean, this sounds nuts to anybody who hasn't done DMT or who hasn't drunk ayahuasca, but you do meet intelligent entities.
00:11:56.000And more and more around the world, people drinking ayahuasca are meeting this goddess figure.
00:12:03.000She might appear as some kind of panther or jaguar.
00:12:06.000A very powerful, tough love kind of lady who reveals to you the truth about yourself and just says, you know, you fucking deal with it because that's how you are.
00:12:18.000And the truth that was revealed to me from quite early on was my relationship with cannabis had got out of balance and I needed to get it back into balance.
00:12:25.000And of course, I ignored those messages completely because I was so...
00:12:30.000I was so much in love with my cannabis relationship.
00:12:33.000In fact, my wife said that really it was like I had a mistress, you know, who I spent all my time with was the cannabis rather than her.
00:12:40.000And this went on for many, many years.
00:12:42.000Now, the paranoia aspect, okay, I'm going to bare my heart here, and, you know, I believe in being honest.
00:12:50.000The paranoia aspect began to affect my relationship with my beloved partner, Santa, who I just love from the bottom of my heart, and she is the The best, the most pure-hearted, generous-spirited, loving lady it's possible to imagine.
00:13:05.000I started to develop all kinds of suspicions about her, which were completely groundless.
00:13:11.000I started to imagine all sorts of stuff were going on, and then I started to act towards her as though those suspicions were real.
00:13:18.000And all of this was also Related to my consumption of cannabis.
00:13:23.000It was not caused by my consumption of cannabis.
00:13:25.000I think this is a latent aspect of my own personality.
00:13:42.000And she was patiently putting up with this, but she was suffering.
00:13:45.000And we went down to Brazil in October 2011. And if I had been told when we got on that plane and went down to Brazil that when I came back two weeks later, I would probably never smoke cannabis again, I would have laughed in the face of the person who told me that.
00:14:00.000But the encounters that I had with the spirit of ayahuasca, whatever that is, I'm willing to accept that there is no spirit of ayahuasca, that it's all something we generate out of our brains.
00:14:10.000But for me, she manifests like a goddess.
00:14:13.000And the encounters I had with that, and I do think she's real.
00:14:16.000That's just my personal belief system.
00:14:18.000And those encounters that I had were incredibly powerful.
00:14:21.000And she took me to a place that was something like hell.
00:14:24.000And she took me to a place that was something like the judgment scene.
00:14:29.000Now, the judgment scene is a place where your heart is weighed in the scales against the feather of truth and harmony and cosmic justice.
00:14:38.000And you do not want your heart to be heavy in those scales.
00:14:41.000You want to be able to look back on your life and say, I did good.
00:14:45.000I did not add to the misery in the world.
00:14:47.000I did something worthwhile with this incredible gift of life that the universe gave me.
00:14:52.000And everything you've done, every second, every minute of your life is completely transparent.
00:14:57.000Every thought, every action, everything you did from the moment you became conscious until the moment of your death is laid out before you and there's no hiding from it.
00:15:07.000We're great at creating illusions about our own behavior and persuading ourselves that we're behaving just fine.
00:15:14.000In the Judgment Hall of Osiris, which is also called the Hall of Mart, where the scene takes place, all of that's stripped away, and you confront the truth.
00:15:20.000And I was put there, and I confronted the truth about myself, and I saw the way that I was behaving towards my partner, and I was shown that this had to stop.
00:15:30.000Otherwise I was going to pay a huge price for it.
00:15:35.000I had a series of terrifying, terrifying experiences which my partner Sanseth shared with me because we were drinking ayahuasca together and at a certain point entities came to her and she had the experience of her heart being pulled out of her chest and the entity said to her and she thought she was going to die and the entity said to her We're going to do this to you to teach Graham a lesson,
00:15:59.000and Santa communicated that to me, and I would rank that as probably the single most terrifying night of my entire life, and I've had some terrifying nights.
00:16:09.000That was just absolutely Scared, rigid.
00:16:14.000And I came out of that with a feeling, a very clear feeling.
00:16:21.000The next day after you've drunk the brew, you share with the rest of the group who you've drunk with, the experiences you had the night before, as much as you want to share.
00:16:28.000And what I shared, because I still didn't believe that I could stop smoking cannabis, what I shared was that I was going to change my relationship with cannabis and to get to a place where cannabis was serving me again rather than me Serving her.
00:17:49.000It's a terrible thing to do, but for me it was the right thing to do.
00:17:52.00024 years, non-stop relationship with cannabis, definitely abusing the herb.
00:17:57.000I had got to the point where the only rational course of action was what I was shown in Ayahuasca, which was to stop.
00:18:03.000And I don't know whether it was because There was way too much THC and not enough CBD, or whether it was just me not being responsible for my own behavior.
00:18:12.000I go around saying that I believe in adult responsibility, and I do, but I don't think I was being responsible.
00:18:18.000I don't think I was using the herb in a responsible way.
00:18:20.000I don't think I was using it in a respectful way, and I paid a price for that.
00:18:24.000Well, that's very honest and forthcoming of you to talk about it.
00:18:28.000And it's very uncomfortable for people to discuss mistakes they've made or paths they've gone down that they didn't, for whatever reason, they got caught up in the momentum.
00:18:37.000They didn't see where it was headed until they hit the wall.
00:18:42.000It sounds like you have a legitimate chemical reaction to it.
00:19:52.000It gives you like, to me, like, it gets rid of the excess and balances things out.
00:19:58.000Like, you can, the reason why people have road rage and they're reacting so strongly to nothing, what a guy got in front of you and it's going to take you three extra seconds to get where you're going.
00:21:32.000It's a bit like an epidural that women get when they're giving birth.
00:21:36.000It's slightly different, but that's basically what it is.
00:21:39.000And that freezes the lower half of your body.
00:21:41.000You use the use of your legs, you're paralyzed, and there's no pain whatsoever.
00:21:46.000But then, because they regard the surgery as a kind of scary procedure, They then give you a massive dose of sedatives, and you kind of go off into dreamland.
00:21:59.000They put some kind of curtain device between my face and my hip, but I heard the sawing, and then I heard the hammering, and I felt like a piece of furniture on a carpenter's bench.
00:22:16.000But then very nice to come out of it, be fully awake afterwards and gradually the feeling comes back to your legs and I spent four days in hospital and initially I thought it was going to be very tough and I thought I'd be on sticks for a long time but I did the physio and I just carried on working at it and I'm okay.
00:22:33.000I stayed awake for my first knee surgery.
00:22:41.000And he was, you know, he was just a guy that was like tired of being a doctor.
00:22:46.000Like really wasn't into people or whatever it was.
00:22:49.000I mean, if he fixed my knee, it still fixes day.
00:22:51.000It's a patella tendon graft where they take a slice of your patella and they open you up and take a piece of bone out of your shin and a piece of bone in your kneecap and they use that to replace your anterior cruciate ligament.
00:23:11.000I don't know if he just forgot I was awake or thought I wouldn't remember, but I remember him moving around like, well, better than it was.
00:23:31.000And I remember visiting him to get it looked at, like, after, you know, he would, like, want a check-up to see how it was, like, months later.
00:23:39.000Like, the guy just didn't like people.
00:25:05.000And then the socket, in my case, there were cysts in the socket, which were hollow spaces that had come in there because the ball joint was out of kilter and it was rubbing in the wrong way.
00:25:16.000I was in severe pain for a year before this happened.
00:25:22.000What they do is they put in a titanium unit there where the socket is, and they put a titanium shaft that they hammer down into the bone.
00:25:32.000But then on the top of the titanium is ceramic, so the actual bearings, both the titanium socket is lined with ceramic and the bearing that That moves around in it that sits on top of the titanium shaft, that's also ceramic.
00:25:46.000So there's no metal rubbing against metal, which has caused problems in the past.
00:25:50.000People get fragments of metal into their bloodstream and so on.
00:26:13.000We are already getting bionic bodies, and this is one of the good things which medical science has done some terrible things, but one of the good things it's done is, I mean, if this had happened 50 years ago, I would have been crippled at the age of 62. I couldn't have gone on with my life.
00:26:27.000That's what eventually did in Hunter Thompson.
00:28:22.000Plus, I mean, since we're in the business of revelations here, the other thing that they have to do when you have the surgery for the 24 hours after the surgery is you have to have a catheter through the penis and into the bladder because for those first 24 hours you cannot get up out of bed and you can't lift up to use a bedpan.
00:30:01.000I mean, we all think we're young, but I feel young.
00:30:05.000I'm 62, and I don't know why I was afflicted with this at an age.
00:30:10.000Most people who go for hip replacement, they're into their 70s, so I don't know why it hit me so hard.
00:30:16.000I like the line from Creators of the Lost Ark, you know, where Indiana Jones is all beat up, sitting in the ship's cabin, in some cabin, and the lady with him comments on his appearance, you know, and he says, it's not the years, it's the mileage.
00:30:31.000And I think I put on some mileage over the years.
00:30:34.000Well, I know a lot of martial artists that get hip replacements.
00:30:37.000Mark Coleman, the former UFC heavyweight champion, just tweeted that he's going in for a hip replacement.
00:32:09.000I have to say that I did wonder, and I still do wonder, whether the fact that I quit cannabis in October 2011 And started feeling severe hip pain just three months later in the early part of 2012,
00:32:28.000whether there's some connection or whether the cannabis was either in some way protecting me from the onset of severe osteoarthritis or whether at least it was reducing my sensitivity to the pain of the osteoarthritis.
00:32:43.000Because that's when I started noticing it.
00:32:44.000So your body was just out of alignment?
00:32:46.000The hip was out of socket or something?
00:33:00.000When you talked about the ayahuasca experience and you talked about the goddess coming to you and that you choose to believe that it's real, My thoughts on this whole what is real and what is not real thing,
00:33:17.000what I've been thinking lately is that it doesn't really even matter.
00:33:21.000Because what it is, is it's about the experience itself.
00:33:26.000And the best parts of psychedelic experiences are the learning parts.
00:33:31.000It sounds like so boring to people because they think like, oh no, I thought I was going to see amazing things and I was going to watch elephants fly and it was going to be mad hallucinations, which, yeah, does occur sometimes, but that's not what it's really about.
00:33:47.000What it's really about is about a learning experience.
00:33:51.000Massive leaps in development of your personality and your psyche, your worldview, your personal view, and these massive leaps that happen through psychedelics, they happen exactly the same way if you really do encounter a goddess or if this goddess is just conjured up by your imagination in incredibly vivid detail.
00:34:14.000Either one is the same experience to you personally.
00:34:19.000It's a very important point because, yes, it might be a hallucination, but it is immensely beneficial.
00:34:25.000Or it might not be a hallucination, and we might not have a full account of what the fuck goes on in the human consciousness, especially during altered states.
00:34:33.000And to go one way or the other, I think, is absurd.
00:34:41.000Here is an incredibly valuable experience, which is available to us, and which, let's not forget, that humanity has had a long relationship with these plants.
00:34:52.000This is, I think, one of the problems, again, caused by the war on drugs, which is that it sought to intervene in that relationship and demonize and make it It's dangerous to use them because you might get sent to prison.
00:35:08.000You can get sent to prison for a very long time.
00:35:22.000If you're feeling threatened in your head at a particular time, if you're in a space that is uncomfortable or difficult for you, chances are the psychedelic experience will also be uncomfortable and difficult.
00:35:34.000The more that you can control the space, the more that you can be surrounded by others who love you and have your best interests at heart, the more likely you are to have a very beneficial experience from that.
00:35:45.000And those beneficial experiences can and frequently do include painful moments when you come to realization of actually who you are and what you are.
00:35:56.000And this is absolutely fundamental with ayahuasca, is what I call the life review, where you You see the impact of your behavior on others, which previously you had insulated yourself from.
00:36:10.000And when you see the pain you'd caused, you might have felt perfectly justified at the time.
00:36:15.000When you see it, and you see it with that clarity, it makes you strongly motivated not to do that again.
00:36:21.000So it's a very important learning experience.
00:36:32.000I would say it's a core factor of all psychedelics.
00:36:34.000And I've always felt like it's really ironic that law enforcement works against psychedelics because nothing would benefit law enforcement more than psychedelics.
00:36:45.000If psychedelics were legal, there'd be so many less crimes.
00:36:49.000First of all, the drug crimes be out the door, and then it would be a matter of how many people around Mushrooms are going to rob your house.
00:37:03.000We have this incredible ally that our culture, our society, we have this amazing plant thing that we've discovered in several different forms.
00:37:13.000And we've made all of them outside of our reach.
00:37:17.000We put all of them outside legal reach, which is insane.
00:38:00.000But the best way to do that is through psychedelics.
00:38:02.000And the people who are involved in the running of things most likely are ignorant to the experience.
00:38:09.000And so what you're dealing with is someone who is 50, 60 years into a lifelong Closed-off ego trip of death and destruction, and they're the ones that are running the world.
00:38:21.000Unfortunately, they're the ones that are running the world.
00:38:25.000We're not so fucked because humans are evil, and when you look around at all the nice people that you meet, you get really confused as to how the world can be so fucked up.
00:39:10.000You have random qualifications as far as education, as far as your background.
00:39:14.000Not some power-hungry egomaniac who wants to push you around, which is unfortunately the case.
00:39:18.000And the old boy network, the thing that comes into place when these guys, they're cronies and they all help each other out and hook each other up and communicate with each other.
00:39:27.000And then there's lobbyists and special interest groups.
00:39:29.000And they all want to make sure that this keeps going so they make sure that the laws continue to stay on the books, that allow them to do all the stupidity, especially when, like, Congress can't be guilty of insider trading.
00:40:20.000Congress believes they're immune to insider trading laws, and there are legal professors that are debating them.
00:40:30.000And the legal analysis by law professor Donna Nagley of the Indiana University suggests that members of Congress may not be immune We're good to
00:41:30.000So I thought, and I've made this proposal several times, that what I would like to see is anybody running for high office, first right off, they've got to do 10 ayahuasca sessions.
00:43:23.000If everybody was doing ayahuasca, we could pull this world together with rapid quickness.
00:43:29.000If they just broke out ayahuasca ceremonies all over the globe, if it became the next big thing, sort of like cell phones.
00:43:36.000Everybody's got ayahuasca ceremonies on every corner.
00:43:38.000You could change the whole world within our lifetime in an astounding, loving way where people would abandon so many of their ideas about business and so many of their ideas about controlling resources and killing people.
00:43:54.000You know, the amazing thing is that it is actually happening.
00:43:57.000It is actually happening, admittedly on a small scale, but for me this is one of the mysteries of ayahuasca at a time when the Amazon jungle is under such terrible threat, that out of the jungle emerge these two plants, one of which is a vine, which then begins to spread her tentacles all around the planet and to call out to people.
00:44:55.000And again, a number of times I stand up and I'm giving a presentation somewhere and I'm talking about ayahuasca.
00:45:02.000And then somebody stands up in the audience and says, don't you realize that by promoting ayahuasca you're leading to the depletion of the rainforest?
00:45:31.000It's really a fascinating subject, the fact that something does exist to give you that experience.
00:45:36.000I've always said about the DMT experience that if you could just show someone what you see, without taking it, if you could just show someone, they would want to do it.
00:45:46.000They would want to go, wait a minute, and it doesn't hurt you?
00:45:57.000Yeah, if we lived in that ideal world where we as adults had the right to make sovereign decisions about our own consciousness, I think most people wouldn't choose to do it.
00:46:07.000Well, if you look at how it is in Holland, where marijuana is essentially legal, and nobody, you know, they look down upon people that get high all the time, and they also look down upon hard drugs.
00:46:18.000Because of the fact that you can get most things, they understand with great clarity what's dangerous and what's not dangerous.
00:46:24.000And people are always going to make bad mistakes.
00:46:28.000And you have to understand that some people will make mistakes and there will be problems, but that should not be an obstacle to what has to be a fundamental freedom.
00:46:39.000But what about allowing people into your community that sell them?
00:46:43.000Allowing people in your community of friends and neighbors that profit off of the addiction of others?
00:46:48.000Because there's certain drugs like meth.
00:46:51.000I'm not saying that meth should be illegal.
00:46:53.000I don't know whether or not I don't know whether or not there's a way to handle it where you get the maximum benefit.
00:47:00.000I don't know whether it's making it illegal, decriminalizing it, making it so that people can't get prosecuted for using but they can get prosecuted for selling.
00:47:09.000Some of these substances are very harmful.
00:47:13.000Personally, I don't want to smoke meth.
00:47:14.000But if you were next door to a meth guy, you would not want that guy in your communities profiting off of enslaving people, chemically enslaving people.
00:47:22.000So this is an area where more work has to be done.
00:47:26.000But I think if we approach the problem from a spirit of love and from a spirit of respect for the sovereignty of other adults, it'll be a whole lot better than the way we're approaching the problem right now.
00:47:36.000And as we know, making these Toxic substances, illegal, doesn't prevent their use.
00:47:42.000It absolutely does not prevent their use.
00:47:44.000The use has gone up and up and up and up and up over the decades.
00:47:47.000And it's kind of unique, one of the properties of psychedelics, whether it's, like, for some folks, Ibogaine has a great...
00:47:59.000It's a great result for curing addictions, and ayahuasca has a great result.
00:48:04.000And the people that are doing these very things and selling these very drugs, both, participating in both sides, selling and dealing, could both benefit from ayahuasca.
00:48:13.000Like, if you're a meth dealer, you're an asshole.
00:48:35.000And he came there in a state, he was just so wired.
00:48:40.000And it came out, as we were discussing, as we were talking, it came out that he had a rival in love.
00:48:46.000And he'd gone out and got a gun, and just before he left LA, the best decision he ever made was to leave LA and come down to Brazil and drink ayahuasca.
00:48:55.000He was getting close to the point of murdering a fellow human being.
00:49:00.000Two weeks in Brazil, five ayahuasca sessions, completely turned him around, completely turned him around, and he revolutionized his life.
00:49:48.000And they will use ayahuasca to gain power over others.
00:49:54.000And there have been one or two horrendous cases that occur with this.
00:49:57.000So I do think the intention of the individuals who are involved is also an important part of this.
00:50:04.000And psychedelics I agree with you that the single one-stop shop to transform our society and make it a better place, a far better place than it can be today, is the correct use of psychedelics.
00:50:19.000But I would be wrong to say that psychedelics are a magic potion, because they're not.
00:50:25.000And there have been societies which have Misused psychedelics profoundly.
00:50:30.000I would say that the Aztecs in Mexico were one of those.
00:50:35.000Well, they used psilocybin, but they did not use it for gentle consciousness exploration.
00:50:42.000The Aztecs used psilocybin preparatory to rituals of human sacrifice.
00:50:47.000The Aztecs used psilocybin as a vehicle to communicate with their deities, and those deities included characters like Huitzilopochtli, who was the war god, who spoke to – Montezuma was the last Aztec emperor,
00:51:03.000and that's 1519 when Cortes appears in Mexico.
00:51:08.000And Montezuma was in daily communication with the war god by means of psilocybin mushrooms.
00:51:15.000And what the war god was telling him to do, you know, there's demons out there as well as angels.
00:51:20.000What the war god was telling him to do was to kill people and to stretch them over a stone and cut out their hearts.
00:51:27.000And there was a horrendous situation in Tenochtitlan, which was the capital city, which is now Mexico City as a matter of fact, when they inaugurated the Great Pyramid.
00:51:56.000Are these entities that we encounter projections of our own minds?
00:51:59.000Or is there some other realm or level of existence where non-physical entities that communicate with us at the level of consciousness exist?
00:52:09.000Whichever it is, whether it's a projection of our own minds, as you rightly say, or whether those entities are real, is less important than the effects on our behavior.
00:52:17.000But if what is being projected from our own mind is very dark and negative and wicked, or if those entities also include evil angels as well as good guys, then you can get cultures misled down this path.
00:52:32.000And I do believe that's what happened with the Aztecs.
00:52:35.000There's also recently, and again, I think truth is really important.
00:52:42.000There have been some tragic cases with ayahuasca, most recently in Chile, which actually involved a human sacrifice, which actually involved the burning to death of a baby on the instructions of the so-called guru or shaman.
00:52:57.000He formed a kind of death cult, but their sacrament was ayahuasca.
00:53:02.000This is very rare, but it does happen.
00:53:04.000And I think people should be aware when they enter ayahuasca space that one of the things ayahuasca does is it makes you more suggestible.
00:53:12.000If a powerful, strong, negative personality comes along and says to you, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this, you might just do it.
00:53:26.000And if you're not going into this with good intent, then bad things also can happen.
00:53:32.000Well, I was also wondering what would it be like to introduce psychedelics into the insane warlike environment of Aztec Mexico in the 1500s?
00:53:43.000I mean, what would it have been like, this living back then, and what would it take to become A person of royalty, an emperor, a king.
00:53:54.000In those days, it was insane bloodshed.
00:53:59.000They were a very dark and demonic culture, and unfortunately, that demonic aspect of Aztec culture was Without any shadow of a doubt, mediated by psilocybin mushrooms.
00:54:11.000And they called them Teonanactyl, which means the flesh of the gods.
00:54:14.000And they were used for communication with demonic entities.
00:54:18.000And we cannot pretend that that was not so.
00:54:24.000And indeed, if the Aztecs had not been those people, I mean, if you imagine a society which was run by serial killers and in the interests of serial killers,
00:54:39.000that's roughly Aztec society in 1519. So they would have neighboring tribes who they would prey on.
00:54:46.000They could easily have completely defeated them, but they preferred not to completely defeat them.
00:54:49.000They preferred to use them for warfare every year, make war on them, take captives, bring the captives back to Tenochtitlan, and cut out their hearts.
00:55:15.000And they were looking for liberation from that horror that was being inflicted on them.
00:55:19.000Well, isn't that a better – I shouldn't say a better, but isn't a possibility that what you're dealing with is A bunch of sociopaths and a bunch of crazy people, and if you introduce psilocybin into their system in this insane warlike world,
00:55:40.000that what you're conjuring up is their imagination.
00:55:43.000It is the desire to manifest these things that would ask them to do horrible things.
00:55:52.000This is a core behavior pattern in human beings when they get in control of armies.
00:57:14.000It's as though the body functions as a filter, and it removes certain impurities, which then allow the good stuff to remain, and that comes through in urine.
00:57:23.000Apparently, you can pass it through seven human bodies.
00:58:53.000If you're gonna do that, you might as well have some Amanita Muscaria in there.
00:58:56.000Yeah, you might as well, and even then, yeah.
00:58:59.000I wonder if when a person goes completely psycho, when you're living in war, and one of the things about the Mexicans, the Aztecs, rather, is I don't even think they had horses yet.
00:59:13.000This is one of the reasons, again, why a relatively small force of Spaniards were able to defeat them was because the horse had been extinct in the Americas for 12,000 years from the end of the last ice age.
00:59:27.000And so when the Spanish turned up with actually only 16 horses, 16 heavy hunters that were trained for warfare, European armies had had thousands of years to develop strategies to deal with men on horseback.
00:59:42.000And there were definite, specific tactics and responses that you used when you were charged.
00:59:48.000But the Maya and the Aztecs, they had no idea what they were looking at.
00:59:52.000They actually, if you look at their accounts, which I've done, you'll find that they initially thought that they were dealing with supernatural beings, which were part deer, actually, because that was the nearest animal that they could relate to a horse, part deer and part human.
01:00:06.000And they didn't know how to handle these things.
01:00:10.000And they're coming down at you at 25 or 30 miles an hour.
01:00:13.000They're covered in armor, the horse and the man.
01:00:16.000And it's a pretty terrifying prospect.
01:00:19.000And they broke armies of tens of thousands of men, were just fled in terror at the sight of these entities charging down on them.
01:00:29.000And there's a famous case that one of the Tribes in Mexico that fought most vigorously against Montezuma were a people called the Tlaxcalans.
01:00:56.000And he saw what Spain would eventually do to Mexico.
01:01:00.000And so initially, and very hard, he fought the Spanish tooth and nail.
01:01:05.000For over a long campaign that lasted about six weeks.
01:01:08.000And during that campaign, on one occasion, one of his warriors actually took the head off a horse with a single blow of their weapon, which was a bit like a sword.
01:01:21.000It was called a, and it had flakes of obsidian lined along the edges of the blade.
01:01:26.000And that horse was not wearing armor that day, and a horse was beheaded, shocked the Spanish.
01:01:30.000It was the first time suddenly there was proof For the people in front of them that these animals were not supernatural, that they could be killed.
01:01:39.000But eventually, Cortes was a terrorist.
01:01:42.000He went around massacring whole villages.
01:02:10.000And I have to say, although I really detest a lot of the things that the Spanish did, I have to say, those 490 men, they had balls of steel.
01:02:23.000I mean, to turn up on this distant coast with no resources, no reserves, nothing to fall back on, And to know that you're confronting an enemy that is a militaristic power, that has hundreds of thousands of men under arms, that sacrifices you if it catches you,
01:02:38.000and still to go for it, that takes tremendous courage.
01:02:41.000Cortes actually scuttled all his ships so that his men could not flee.
01:03:04.000So it's been interesting for me, because my latest writing effort has been a novel about the Spanish conquest of Mexico.
01:03:10.000These days I do novels as well as non-fiction.
01:03:13.000It's been interesting for me to get inside the head of a man like Cortez, to get inside the head of a man like Montezuma, and to figure out what drove them and what made these characters what they were.
01:03:25.000And I have a witch in the story, a young Aztec witch, and I have a famous woman called Malinal, who became Cortez's lover, who had a grudge against Montezuma.
01:04:35.000When I was researching Fingerprints of the Gods back in The early 90s.
01:04:43.000I traveled extensively and widely in Mexico as part of my research because Mexico is a fascinating place from the point of view of a lost civilization.
01:05:21.000So I was wondering, are these the remnants of some lost civilization?
01:05:25.000Because history does not explain how individuals with that appearance ever turned up in Mexico.
01:05:31.000And I inadvertently, as I was researching Fingerprints of the Gods in Mexico, I inadvertently traveled the route of Cortez.
01:05:40.000And I found myself again and again crossing the path that Cortes had taken from the Gulf of Mexico up to what is now Mexico City.
01:05:50.000And I began to realize there was a fascinating story to tell here and a story that had never been properly told.
01:05:56.000And I used the accounts of some of the conquistadors, men like Bernard Diaz, who give us eyewitness accounts of Aztec society.
01:06:04.000This helped me to – because the Aztecs They were latecomers in the civilization of Mexico, but they'd only existed as an empire for 200 years before Cortes came.
01:06:16.000But they revered earlier cultures, and particularly the amazing pyramid site of Teotihuacan, 30 miles north of Mexico City, which means the place where men became gods.
01:06:29.000So I was investigating the possibility of a lost civilization, but I was kind of imbibing The story of Cortes and of the Aztecs at the same time.
01:06:39.000And I felt this kind of pall of sadness that hangs over Mexico, this feeling that something terrible happened there.
01:06:48.000And what's at the heart of my story, without giving too much of it away, is this notion of demonic influence that Montezuma, and I accept it could be projection of the individual's mind because he's just a particularly wicked, evil individual, or it could be that there are real demons out there.
01:07:04.000So Montezuma is communicated with and advised by Huitzilopochtli, the war god, and Cortes is well known, believed he had a special relationship with St. Peter.
01:07:13.000And he, in dreams, encountered St. Peter, and St. Peter advised him to carry out some of the most horrific acts of genocide that have been ever recorded in the history of the Americas.
01:07:27.000The speculation of the novel is that both The entity that appeared to Moctezuma as the war god and the entity that appeared to Cortes as Saint Peter were actually one and the same demonic entity seeking to multiply human misery because that's what demons do.
01:07:43.000And if we think it was bad under the Aztecs, let's be honest and accept that it was a thousand times worse after the Spanish took over.
01:07:52.000The population of Mexico It was calculated to be 30 million in 1519. Within 40 years, it was 1 million.
01:09:28.000I wanted to ask you about this because there's a guy on my message board, his name is Frodo Swaggins, and he sent me a cool link to this new thing that's been found under Teotihuacan.
01:09:40.000They found a jade mask from an earlier era and some building, some work underneath there that they're investigating now that they believe was Olmec.
01:09:53.000I think we're going to find that Teotihuacan actually goes way back, not just to the beginnings of the historical epoch, but far deep into prehistory.
01:10:02.000And the Olmec, the so-called Olmecs of Central America may go back 10, 12,000 years.
01:10:07.000They may not be – I don't think we should just limit them to the last 3,500 years.
01:10:11.000So this is the case with many of these sites.
01:10:14.000It's the same, by the way, if you go to Chichen Itza.
01:10:16.000If you can get inside the pyramid of Cucucan, Chichen Itza, and Cucucan is just another name for Quetzalcoatl, you'll find that it's built on top of another pyramid, which is inside it, an older pyramid, and preserved completely inside it, and you can even get inside that older pyramid.
01:10:32.000And I think it's the case all over the world that sites have been built on top of older sites, reincarnated in a way.
01:10:38.000So there was an ancient sacred place, and later cultures came along and honored it and built new Monuments on top of it, but the mistake the archaeologists make is that the origins of the site are the later culture, and they don't take account of the earlier culture.
01:10:51.000Well, that was one of the things that John Anthony West was suggesting about Egypt when you show the very different construction methods that coincidentally are below the ground.
01:11:01.000Like you have to dig out the sand to pull these things up and, oh, lo and behold, they look different.
01:11:05.000Yeah, and that's like the Osirion in Abydos in Upper Egypt, which is 50 or 60 feet lower than the Temple of Seti I and was actually covered with 50 feet of sedimentation.
01:11:16.000Until archaeologists dug it out, but they still insist on giving it to Seti I. It's a fascinating thing, the denialism that's involved in Egyptology.
01:11:49.000His main thing was that he was closely associated with the Mubarak family, particularly with Susan Mubarak, the wife of the deposed president Hosni Mubarak.
01:11:59.000And they protected him so he could do whatever he liked while Mubarak was running Egypt.
01:12:04.000And therefore he was one of the closest to Mubarak in the Egyptian regime.
01:12:09.000So when Mubarak fell and a whole new system came into play in Egypt, Zahir was one of the first to go.
01:13:20.000It bears very characteristic erosion marks, both on its body and on the trench dug around it, and that those are the marks of precipitation-induced weathering, of exposure to thousands of years of heavy rainfall.
01:13:31.000Cut a long story short, no such rainfall in Egypt in the last 5,000 years.
01:13:35.000You have to go back 10,000, 12,000 years, end of the last ice age, to get that kind of climate.
01:13:40.000And then you have to have thousands of years of those conditions to create that kind of erosion.
01:13:46.000So when John Anthony West and Robert Shock dropped this bombshell on Egyptology in roughly 1992, that the Sphinx actually might be thousands of years older than the Egyptologists imagine, there was a huge outcry.
01:14:00.000And Egyptologists became very, very angry about it because they were threatened in the core of their being.
01:14:06.000And one of the arguments they made, which they thought was the killer argument, was, look, you're saying this monument is 12,000 years old.
01:14:13.000But there are no other large monuments anywhere in the world which are 12,000 years old.
01:14:18.000Well, unfortunately for the Egyptologists, that's no longer true because just the most amazing site has been discovered in Turkey called Gobekli Tepe.
01:14:27.000Yeah, we talked about that the last time you were on.
01:14:39.000And that means that no later culture has tramped over it to confuse the dating record.
01:14:45.000And therefore, we have a pristine site.
01:14:47.000And when a site is pristine and it's approached by a mainstream...
01:14:52.000Archaeologists such as Klaus Schmidt from the German Archaeological Institute, who's the excavator, he has to honestly put his hand on his heart and say, this site is 12,000 years old.
01:14:59.000And if Gobekli Tepe is 12,000 years old, then there's no reason on earth why the Sphinx shouldn't be 12,000 years old.
01:15:04.000And if the Sphinx and Gobekli Tepe are 12,000 years old, then I'm sorry, we have to rewrite the history books.
01:15:13.000Whatever documentary it was that showed Robert Schock presenting his findings, because he's an academic, and he's the only one that they would allow to present.
01:15:22.000Professor of Geology at Boston University.
01:15:23.000And John Anthony West is not an academic.
01:15:27.000He's a guy who's immersed himself in Egypt his whole life, but I don't know what his formal education is, but the fact that that guy hasn't been given some sort of, at least someone test him, And give the guy a fucking degree.
01:15:39.000Because, like, who the hell knows more about ancient Egypt than John Anthony West?
01:15:43.000Nobody knows more about ancient Egypt.
01:15:44.000And it should, obviously, his credentials should be examined.
01:16:04.000I think he's a pretty astounding person when it comes to his knowledge of Egypt.
01:16:07.000I think John is an astounding person, and I think that he's brought a unique insight to ancient Egypt, and he's done far more for the exploration of the past than any...
01:16:17.000So now that Gobekli Tepe has been clearly established at least 10,000 years old.
01:16:22.00012,000 years old because the best stuff is the oldest.
01:16:25.00010,000 years ago, like a time capsule, they bury it.
01:16:29.000And by the way, it's only 5% of it has been excavated.
01:16:32.000A huge, vast area remaining to be excavated.
01:16:34.000So who knows what the hell they're going to find under there, whether they're going to find artifacts or what have you.
01:16:56.000And therefore, we're looking at a culture that 12,000 years ago was already capable of doing that.
01:17:02.000We can't say that they just made that up overnight.
01:17:05.000There has to be a long background to that that got them to the point where they could do that.
01:17:09.000That is why Gobekli Tepe is the single most important archaeological site in the world because It could not have appeared by magic.
01:17:18.000It had to be the result of a culture which had figured out how to work with large and heavy blocks of stone and to quarry them and carve them and move them around.
01:17:26.000And our ancestors are supposed to have been hunter-gatherers, you know, living in small groups without any large-scale organization.
01:17:35.000And Gobekli Tepe gives the lie to that.
01:17:37.000And there's a very sophisticated carving method employed on these beams, a three-dimensional carving method, where instead of carving the image into the stone itself, which is the easy way to draw something, they actually left the piece of stone, like if they drew a lizard,
01:17:53.000they would cut away everything else and leave the lizard to stand out.
01:18:45.000I was watching that and the other thing was the other academic who he was communicating with, whatever that guy's name is, no need to even say it, such a cunty human being.
01:19:32.000Archaeology is one of those areas of study which is very territorial and where scholars have staked their reputation on a particular view of the past and they get very angry when anybody Threatens that.
01:19:46.000And they're very, very, very obnoxious to one another as well as to outsiders.
01:19:51.000And they've told this story and given degrees based on what they've taught for decades.
01:20:07.000And in saying these negative things about Egyptology, I also do want to say that they also do great work.
01:20:15.000There's a fantastic work that's been done by Egyptology, and I don't think that I could have written any of my books if I hadn't been able to draw on the huge amount of data that Egyptology has provided, but sometimes I put a different interpretation on it from the one that they put on it.
01:20:30.000So I don't want to put them down completely.
01:20:32.000They've done great work, but they're narrowly focused on a particular reference frame, a particular idea of how human history evolved, and they should let the evidence speak for itself rather than impose that And we should point out that there is a small group of people,
01:20:49.000not a small group, I shouldn't even say, I shouldn't quantify them.
01:20:53.000Some people believe that the water erosion feature, it was actually wind and sand.
01:20:59.000I've seen that argument, and I'm not a geologist, obviously, but when I saw Robert Schock deal with that argument, it doesn't seem to hold water.
01:21:32.000Well, that's why Schoch has made a marvelous contribution to this whole field because he is a credentialed academic, he is a geologist, and he's been prepared to put his reputation on the line and say, I'm sorry, I think the Sphinx is really, really old.
01:23:04.000I don't know whether the new authorities...
01:23:06.000Right now, Egypt is just so busy surviving.
01:23:08.000And so busy trying to figure out where it goes next.
01:23:12.000And they've had a major political change.
01:23:17.000But many of the old guard are still in place in many, many ways.
01:23:21.000And there is this popular uprising in Egypt, but it's disorganized and unplanned.
01:23:27.000Right now, the last thing that most Egyptians are thinking about is ancient history.
01:23:32.000My take on that part of the world, as a comedian, is that if that's the birthplace of civilization, that's the cradle of civilization, that those people, right now, that's the townies of the world.
01:24:08.000They're structurally very closely related to the ancient Egyptian language, and they are the direct inheritors of the ancient Egyptian tradition.
01:24:16.000So when ancient Egyptians were converted to Christianity around about 300 or 400 years after Christ, that was the beginning of the Coptic Church in ancient Egypt, and the Coptic people are the true inheritors of the lost wisdom.
01:24:51.000Yeah, but out of 60 million and in an area which is involved with Islamic fundamentalism, very much it's difficult to be a minority in that situation.
01:25:00.000So what you're saying is it's better to be a Christian in that area?
01:25:04.000I think that all three of the world's monotheistic faiths, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, have been responsible for just a vast amount of misery in the world.
01:25:16.000And I think we're not going to move on as a human race unless we actually move on from that time where we don't accept that something is true just because our parents or some guy with a beard tells us that it's true, you know, where we look for direct experience.
01:25:32.000This is the problem with all of those big religions.
01:25:33.000I don't care whether they call themselves Christians, Muslims, or Jews, you know, is that they're hierarchies, they're bureaucracies, they're power structures, and they do not offer a direct experience.
01:25:44.000That's why all of them persecute the use of psychedelics.
01:25:47.000They don't want people to have direct contact with the divine.
01:25:50.000Are you hopeful about things when you see like Arab Spring, people rising up and trying to remove dictators and what happened in Egypt, getting rid of Mubarak?
01:25:59.000I am hopeful and I think it is happening all over the world and I think the internet has played a part with it and it's happening in America.
01:26:21.000You know, it's a huge paradox because on the world stage, America is a very dark and malignant force, which does tremendous harm consistently and has done for a long time.
01:26:35.000But at the individual level, there's a tremendous spirit of awakening in America.
01:26:40.000Look just what's happening with cannabis laws in America.
01:26:50.000Because we don't have this spirit of independence.
01:26:52.000We don't have the structure where individual states can make decisions on key issues like that.
01:26:58.000And of course, in America, there's a conflict between state law and federal law.
01:27:02.000The federal government is not always respecting state laws and is seeking to persecute people who are using cannabis.
01:27:09.000I think that that in itself, the fact that a number of states have decriminalized or even legalized cannabis, is a sign of a sea change that is underway at the moment.
01:27:20.000And what it reflects is an awakening of the American people.
01:27:23.000So even though huge negative forces are still at work, And are still sitting in the seat of power.
01:27:32.000I think there's a tremendous hope for the future in America, and that comes from the awakening to consciousness of the American people.
01:27:40.000And maybe it's small right now, but it's growing.
01:27:42.000And in that sense, far more than any other, I believe America is leading the world, that there is this possibility for awakening here.
01:27:51.000And maybe it goes back to the founding fathers and the frontier days and just the sense that That people should be able to make decisions about their own lives without government telling them what to do.
01:29:04.000So there's this whole ethic that our lives are supposed to be about production and consumption and nothing else, that we define ourselves in terms of what we own.
01:29:12.000We're prepared to go into huge debt to own a shiny car or a better house.
01:29:18.000And that's supposed to be right and proper.
01:29:21.000And then we're supposed to define ourselves in terms of our consumption.
01:31:00.000Yeah, they're selling Tide or Toyota trucks or whatever the hell they're selling.
01:31:03.000And, you know, they're just putting on this thing because it's a machine that they can press and it's like an automatic program that runs and extracts money.
01:31:11.000It's not really necessarily a work of art.
01:31:13.000It's just, you know, you've made a hack.
01:32:18.000And I find when you put that to people, even to arch-Republicans, they get it.
01:32:25.000They suddenly realize that actually legalizing psychedelics is a Republican issue.
01:32:31.000I'll tell you what the problem is, Graham Hancock, is the children.
01:32:34.000What you're ignoring is you're endorsing drug use to children.
01:32:37.000And I think that's incredibly irresponsible.
01:32:40.000That's exactly what Ted said when they banned my talk.
01:32:43.000In one of their statements they said that we can't allow this talk to be on the air because some young man might go off to South America and drink ayahuasca.
01:33:14.000There's a lot of beautiful things that come out of TED, a lot of incredible, but it seems like any organization, once people get into power and once people have the ability to tell other people what's cool and what's not cool,
01:33:29.000it starts getting weird and you start telling Eddie Wong that he has to attend all these different things and meet all these donors and Like some kind of freaky cult.
01:33:47.000You had an exchange with one of the guys on TED. I read the comments, and you presented all the things that he had said and said, please show your example of when I said this, I never said this.
01:33:58.000What was the thing that he accused you of, and what was the response?
01:34:01.000There were two of us who got our talks deleted Rupert Sheldrake as well.
01:34:14.000It was as though Ted felt that these talks must automatically be wrong.
01:34:18.000And that they had some kind of preconception about what we were saying.
01:34:21.000So they didn't even bother to sit down and listen to the actual 18-minute talk.
01:34:24.000It's not that much to listen to, you know, before deleting it from their YouTube channel.
01:34:28.000They just said, this is pseudoscience.
01:34:31.000And they listed a series of false statements that we'd supposedly made.
01:34:35.000But the problem was neither I nor Rupert had made those statements.
01:34:38.000So they never even bothered to look at it.
01:34:39.000They just read complaints and then responded on those complaints.
01:34:42.000They read complaints and responded on the basis of those.
01:34:43.000So when we challenged them, okay, please go through, in my case, go through my talk and find where I say that ayahuasca allows you to communicate with an ancient mother culture.
01:35:38.000Because I was giving my personal story of, you know, why I gave up cannabis.
01:35:45.000I changed that title because a lot of people pointed out to me that that's deeply disrespectful of cannabis and that for many people cannabis is a green goddess.
01:35:52.000And cannabis was a green goddess for me and I accepted that.
01:35:55.000Well, to those people I'd say, fucking relax.
01:35:58.000Okay, because I love cannabis too, but it didn't bother me.
01:36:42.000We invest, you know, multi-billion dollar alcohol industry.
01:36:45.000People don't primarily drink alcohol because of the taste.
01:36:48.000They drink it because it alters their consciousness in a way that they like.
01:36:51.000And so we don't object to altering consciousness in principle, but we object to altering consciousness in certain kinds of ways which threaten the status quo.
01:37:01.000They alter consciousness in ways that lead people to ask profound questions about the nature of the society they live in.
01:37:08.000And that appears to be the line that I crossed.
01:37:10.000So Ted tried to dress it up as pseudoscience, and when I called them on that, in the end, because they realized, I think, that they'd got themselves into some kind of danger, And it's still there on the webpage.
01:37:22.000Rupert and I call it their naughty corner.
01:37:24.000They created a naughty corner of the TED website where our talks were put back online.
01:37:29.000And with all their reasons why they'd taken them off.
01:37:31.000So first thing they did was they crossed out all their reasons.
01:37:34.000So you can find that everything they said has actually been crossed out.
01:37:57.000And they published our rebuttals in full.
01:37:58.000But it wasn't a complete victory because what they didn't do, which is all we wanted, was for our talks to be reinstated on the TEDx YouTube channel.
01:38:05.000Not only that, but you can't put your talk online yourself.
01:38:50.000Apparently, I think it was Barbara Streisand tried to stop some public statement that had been made about her, and it ended up multiplying the statement.
01:38:59.000This is the great thing about the Internet.
01:39:01.000When you try to suppress something, It grows.
01:41:09.000I think that I was exploring an interesting area of inquiry.
01:41:12.000And it's true since I published on that in 2005 that some new work has been done on so-called junk DNA, and it is found to have an important biophysical function.
01:41:23.000But what I reported, and this was in my book Supernatural in 2005, There was a study published in the magazine Science by Eugene Stanley, which looked at the language-like structure of junk DNA. The junk DNA has a structure very similar to all human languages.
01:41:45.000There are certain patterns that repeat in languages that appear also in junk DNA. I simply wanted to speculate on this.
01:41:53.000Is it possible that junk DNA is some kind of archive?
01:41:58.000When I wrote Supernatural, I was looking at this connection with entities that people have in altered states of consciousness.
01:42:06.000And I was saying that the kind of place I would bet on is that in some weird way these entities may be real.
01:42:13.000That is, in itself, a very annoying statement to make to any materialist scientist.
01:42:18.000But then I said, but maybe there's another possibility.
01:42:21.000Maybe there's an archive of information stored on all our DNA all around the world, and maybe in altered states of consciousness we gain access to the archive, and that's maybe why people from all different cultures at different periods of history see the same thing.
01:42:36.000And I cited The work of Francis Crick, who was the discoverer of the double helix form of DNA, in a book that he wrote called Life Itself, where Crick speculates that DNA did not evolve on this planet.
01:42:52.000This is the Nobel Prize winner Francis Crick.
01:42:55.000This is not Graham Hancock who's making this statement.
01:42:57.000Crick suggests a phenomenon called directed panspermia, that the reason that life exploded so rapidly And amazingly, on this planet, within a hundred million years of the planet being cool enough to support life, roughly four billion years ago,
01:43:13.000the reason that it exploded so suddenly was that it came here from elsewhere.
01:43:16.000And he suggested that there had been some advanced alien culture on the other side of the galaxy that faced annihilation.
01:43:24.000Perhaps a supernova was going to go off in their vicinity.
01:43:27.000And they looked desperately for some way to preserve life.
01:43:30.000And their first thought was, could they get themselves off the planet?
01:43:33.000And they realized that, yes, they could, but that they could not travel through interstellar space for thousands or millions of years to reach other possibly habitable planets.
01:43:43.000So in the end what they did was they sent bacteria out into the universe on spaceships and they genetically engineered those bacteria to make them incredibly hardy.
01:43:52.000This was Crick's suggestion, not mine.
01:43:56.000The only thing I added to it was if his theory were right and that life spiraled up on this planet because one of those spaceships hit the ancient earth and spilled out its cargo of genetically engineered bacteria, Well, maybe they wrote a message on the DNA of those bacteria,
01:44:13.000and maybe that message has been preserved, highly preserved, and there are certain strands of DNA that are preserved for hundreds of millions or billions of years and passed down into modern human beings, and maybe it's a message for us about that lost ancestor culture that made the DNA that Or rather didn't make it,
01:44:34.000but engineered the DNA and the bacteria that started life on Earth and that eventually evolved into us.
01:44:39.000And it was just an interesting inquiry.
01:44:41.000By the way, this lends credence to the idea that Francis Crick did a lot of acid.
01:45:30.000I think the other reason it annoys scientists is because I don't mean to pat myself on the back, but I'm not particularly lunatic on a day-to-day basis.
01:47:51.000And so many, many great individuals have suffered most painful experiences as a result of this, but have ended up later to be proved to be right.
01:48:02.000There's plenty of quacks out there too, and they need to be exposed.
01:48:06.000I'm doing this new show on the Sci-Fi Channel, it's called Joe Rogan Questions Everything, and eventually I would like to get to the mysteries of ancient civilizations, whether or not there were Agreed.
01:48:42.000They won't let go of these fucking kooky ideas.
01:48:45.000And no matter how many experts you bring in there that are true experts on whatever subject is at hand, if that person has a kooky idea that they've clung to, they are not letting that fucking thing go.
01:49:19.000But we should, I think, be open to the view that there are other modes of inquiry into the nature of reality which should be Also considered.
01:49:43.000With psychedelics, we retune the receiver wavelength of the brain, hypothesis mind you, and gain access to other levels of reality, parallel universes if you like, which are inhabited by intelligent beings.
01:49:54.000Okay, let's explore that hypothesis scientifically.
01:49:59.000Psychedelics, the very best way, put people into deeply altered states of consciousness on cue, you know, and then get them to compare notes, get them to ask questions of those entities, see if any new information, any novel information comes back that couldn't possibly have been known.
01:50:14.000It's being done, interestingly, with near-death research.
01:50:18.000That's another area where most materialist mainstream scientists will say, nonsense, there's no possibility of any kind of survival of death.
01:50:27.000But people report these astonishing near-death experiences, and they report seeing things that they should not have been able to see.
01:50:34.000So now in operating theaters, in emergency rooms, in a number of hospitals in London, But also, I believe, in the United States as well, they have created shelves up at a high level where they have placed certain images, and they are recording the data right now.
01:50:51.000When people have a near-death experience and they have had the sense of leaving their bodies and being up around the ceiling, have they seen these images?
01:50:57.000If they've seen those images and it can be documented scientifically, then we have to think again about consciousness.
01:51:04.000So they're putting the images up there specifically to catch people looking?
01:51:09.000So when the guy comes back, when he flatlines and he's considered to be brain dead and they bring him back to life, this is happening more and more with advanced resuscitation techniques, many of them report having experiences out of their body.
01:51:22.000Well, now here's a scientific way to test that.
01:51:25.000Is that imagination or is there something real going on?
01:51:30.000There's some quite compelling data but there's an elusive nature to the phenomenon Which is that very often when somebody has a near-death experience, they've had it in the one theater that didn't have the images on view.
01:51:49.000They're looking for a way around this, which might involve using, like, iPad devices, which can be moved around very rapidly and placed in certain spots.
01:53:38.000And when – They do like to throw that label.
01:53:41.000As a matter of fact – Pseudoscience.
01:53:43.000As a matter of fact, it's one of the reasons, amongst many, why I've started to write fiction as well as non-fiction.
01:53:51.000Because if I explore extraordinary ideas in the realm of fiction, I'm not actually there making a claim that this is fact.
01:54:00.000Nevertheless, the ideas are there to be explored in what I've written.
01:54:06.000So it becomes possible to enter into an inquiry into the nature of reality without having to create this huge superstructure of defense against attacks by scientists.
01:54:22.000And I think it's a very useful way forward, as far as I'm concerned, because I did find that writing nonfiction more and more, because I've become this Target figure for scientists required me to bulletproof my arguments in ways that make them,
01:54:43.000frankly, a bit boring to read, you know.
01:54:45.000And I quite like the liberation of not having to do that.
01:55:08.000That book, Fingerprints of the Gods, got me looking at so many different aspects of our culture and then questioning how we got to this point in the first place, how it is that I get up in the morning, I get in my car and I drive to work.
01:55:19.000As I was doing this after reading your book, I was thinking how strange it is that we live in this society where I was born in 1967. The cities have been here since I was a baby.
01:55:32.000I've assumed that they've always been here.
01:55:34.000But then, when you really stop and think about what a short period of time 2,500 BC is, or what a short period of time even 30,000 BC is, that's nothing, man.
01:55:44.000In the history of the world, it's all a blink.
01:56:13.000As I'm getting on in life, one of the things that makes me feel good is the feedback that I do get from people who've read my books, which I've...
01:56:21.000I've sweated blood in order to write, and I've taken a lot of attacks from doing that.
01:56:30.000I mean, I'm a novice at Facebook, but I've started...
01:56:34.000To interact really quite strongly on my Facebook pages.
01:56:38.000I enjoy the interaction that I get there.
01:56:40.000I enjoy the new ideas that are put to me by others.
01:56:44.000And yeah, frankly, it's really nice when some kid in his 20s writes to me and says he read Fingerprints of the Gods and it changed the way that he looks at the world.
01:56:52.000That makes me feel I've done something right anyway.
01:56:56.000In all the mistakes I may have made, I've done something right.
01:57:13.000Press play, and you will do the dance and captivate with amazing...
01:57:20.000The descriptions and this very entrancing way of communicating.
01:57:26.000I think people like that are really important in culture and most scientists are boring as fuck.
01:57:33.000And even though they're doing amazing work and we wouldn't be communicating if it wasn't for some boring scientist, the reality is you're not going to excite people with that shitty personality of yours.
01:58:06.000Now that I've kind of initiated myself into the internet world and got talking to people on Facebook and so on, and my website, you know, all of these things are...
01:58:14.000And the one thing I haven't done, I do have a YouTube channel, but what I don't have is a podcast, and it might be something I... Massively important.
01:58:22.000It's the best way to communicate with people because even in writing, sometimes things are lost in tone, in the way...
01:58:30.000You could be sarcastic and just joking around.
01:58:32.000You actually have to write it just kidding.
01:58:41.000Even though most of the people listen to this podcast, we like to have an iTunes version so you can see sometimes we're making silly faces.
01:59:25.000Well, he's saying that science is locked in what we call a materialist reference frame, which is that it seeks to reduce everything to matter.
01:59:35.000So therefore, the idea of telepathy, for example, is an impossible idea as far as mainstream science is concerned.
01:59:45.000Your consciousness is simply something that's generated by your brain.
01:59:48.000How can you then pick up the thoughts of somebody else across a continent or on the other side of the world?
02:00:18.000Well, there's also the ones that don't believe that and haven't clearly defined what consciousness is, but say, if psychic abilities do exist, Show them.
02:02:04.000One is, this is an odd thing to ask because I've been very successful as a non-fiction author.
02:02:11.000But I am hoping that people will pay attention to my fiction and that people will listen to my fiction.
02:02:19.000It's very, very difficult for me to be published as a novelist.
02:02:23.000The publishing industry want me to stay in my box as a successful non-fiction author, and they don't want me to explore the fictional side of things.
02:02:33.000So I've managed to get a British publisher for my novel, which we talked about earlier, War God, about the Spanish conquest of Mexico.
02:02:39.000But so far I don't have an American publisher.
02:02:43.000And I have been helped a lot by my Facebook community, many of whom are Americans, who have gone to Amazon UK and bought the British edition of my book from America.
02:02:56.000And it will be delivered to them here in America in a few days because the book is published on the 30th of May.
02:03:03.000And if anybody's interested in that story, I would appreciate if they'd make the effort to go to Amazon UK and pick up the book because what that does then is it gives the book the possibility of some success in Britain.
02:03:13.000And if it succeeds in Britain, then it will be picked up by an American publisher.
02:03:19.000So it's only the resistance is just that it's nonfiction?
02:03:33.000My first novel vanished without a trace, because that was called Entangled, because it had absolutely no support from the publishers at all.
02:03:41.000It sold a few thousand copies, but really it was completely ignored.
02:03:45.000And the same thing is going to happen with War God as well.
02:03:49.000And what I've done is I've put free-to-read chapters online on my website.
02:07:51.000But he's also been given a gift by the universe to write amazing stories that make you want to keep turning the pages.
02:07:59.000And you're right, his book on writing, for anybody who aspires to become a writer, that is the first place you go, is read Stephen King on writing.
02:08:07.000Yeah, it's a brilliant book, and he's so forthcoming about all of his trials and struggles, and he's amazing.
02:08:14.000And that's my favorite kind of movie is his books, where it's just fantasy.
02:08:21.000I don't need things to be real in my fiction.
02:08:24.000I enjoy fiction, but I don't need to see a really depressing movie where everybody's got cancer, and oh my god, so brilliantly acted.
02:08:46.000Did you throw some supernatural shit in this as well?
02:08:49.000Yeah, the war god is full of the supernatural.
02:08:51.000And I was able to bounce off the facts because the Aztec Society has been rightly described as the last magical civilization.
02:09:00.000They were involved in magic and witchcraft in a huge way.
02:09:04.000But they also persecuted witches, just as European society in the Middle Ages persecuted witches.
02:09:10.000There are strong supernatural elements in this story, and in a way, I think it's only possible to understand what happened between 1519 and 1521 when you take the beliefs in the supernatural into account.
02:09:22.000It sounds like they were – I mean, your description of a nation of serial killers is apt.
02:09:46.000Because they wanted to present them to the god plump and desirable.
02:09:50.000So they would fatten them for months on end.
02:09:52.000And can you imagine living, that's your situation, you've been put in the fattening pen, they're feeding you this high-calorie diet, and at a certain date you're going to be marched up the pyramid and have your heart cut out.
02:10:24.000And the temple was called Teotihuacan?
02:10:26.000Well, no, that's actually 35 miles north of Mexico City.
02:10:29.000That's the Pyramid of the Sun, the Pyramid of the Moon, and the Pyramid of Quetzalcoatl, which the Aztecs revered as the place where men became gods.
02:10:39.000But they didn't know who made Teotihuacan.
02:10:41.000Teotihuacan was already remotely ancient when the Aztecs...
02:10:45.000Came into the Valley of Mexico and encountered it.
02:10:47.000So the Pyramid of the Sun, the completion of that was when they killed 80,000 people?
02:10:55.000Which is why my novel is called War God.
02:10:57.000And that stood in the heart of what is now Mexico City.
02:11:01.000And when the Spanish took that city, the very first thing they did was to take that pyramid apart stone by stone.
02:11:08.000Did you see what happened in Belize recently?
02:11:11.000Yeah, so an ancient Mayan pyramid is used as a construction material by some asshole firm who used diggers to just break down the body of the pyramid and use it to make roads.
02:11:49.000But doesn't that short-sightedness, the pursuit of short-term goals, which might be immediately profitable, even though long-term massively damaging, doesn't that actually completely sum up everything that's wrong with global culture today?
02:12:02.000I mean, if you wanted to take one act which kind of expresses it, that would be it.
02:12:06.000But, you know, we don't think long-term.
02:12:09.000We don't think in terms of the sacred.
02:12:13.000Nobody considers, when it's being exploited as an economic resource, what that means for our planet in the long run, if all of those trees come down.
02:12:22.000Short term, some money might be made out of it.
02:12:24.000Long term, we're losing the lungs of our planet.
02:12:27.000Well, the pattern is, the real issue with human beings is our ability to do things in large numbers that would be horrific if we did singularly.
02:12:35.000The diffusion of responsibility that comes from acting as a corporation or acting as an army or acting where horrific things can be justified because you're only a part of one huge group of people that are doing these things.
02:14:36.000Lately it's been talk about the Nazis and World War II. But when you go back and pay attention to some of the things that happened in history and you see the amazing level of ruthlessness that people exhibited...
02:15:07.000I mean, you know, when a drone flies over a village in Afghanistan or Pakistan and 120 people get slaughtered, it's a bit remote, it's a bit distant.
02:15:16.000We're not getting our hands dirty, but people are still being killed.
02:16:38.000Well, apparently there's been a new scandal where four Americans were killed in a recent drone strike and now Obama is trying to restrict the use of drones and trying to say that they can't be used on Americans.
02:16:55.000Is it because our humanity has not yet caught up to our technological capabilities that we are We've evolved technologically so much in the past several hundred years.
02:17:07.000We've literally changed the world entirely, but yet the tissue, the DNA, the echoes of the past that lie in our language and in our cultures is really not caught up by any stretch of the imagination.
02:18:40.000Yeah, because your choices are yours, and your choices will define you.
02:18:45.000Isn't it funny that that would be one of the single most powerful changing elements in this culture, if all of a sudden ayahuasca centers started opening them up?
02:18:57.000And we started exploring it scientifically.
02:19:00.000We started figuring out what the contents are.
02:19:02.000As long as those centers were run by good-hearted people who had the capacity to love and wanted The betterment of mankind rather than who were seeking personal gain or personal power through it.
02:19:13.000The evil ones in the Peru and where have you, are they taking it as well?
02:19:54.000I think that's a simple shorthand for it, just as there are also I think that the reality is much more complicated than we imagine, that there are huge unseen realms which impact upon us in important ways,
02:20:10.000and we are interacting with them whether we like it or not.
02:20:14.000And in certain states of consciousness, that interaction can become conscious, and we can gain access to those realms.
02:20:22.000And furthermore, I would say, I believe ultimately in the unity of all things, but right now in this particular learning experience that we're undergoing in a human incarnation, I think it's really useful that those choices exist.
02:20:39.000What, after all, if everything was all good and rosy and perfect and that we're not possible to do wrong, what could we learn from this experience of life?
02:20:49.000If we don't have the opportunity to make mistakes, if we are not faced with fundamental choices, what would we benefit from in living this life in a human body?
02:21:00.000You know, that's one of the main arguments for computer simulation theory.
02:21:41.000Lifespan, our 70 or 80 years or however many years we get, you know, a random element in that, we're going to step out and find ourselves in a room where we've been playing this game all along and then we'll be scored on what we did, you know?
02:21:55.000And did we actually fulfill the objectives that we set out at the beginning of the game with?
02:22:02.000There you get, actually, with that idea of a computer simulation, you find yourself coming full circle and meeting very ancient spiritual ideas, like that thing that I called the weighing of the soul in the ancient Egyptian system.
02:22:16.000That's where you get scored on how you performed in the computer game.
02:22:21.000Maybe how you performed was not how much money you made or how much power you had.
02:22:26.000Maybe it was really how much love you gave.
02:22:28.000That was the thing you most needed to do.
02:22:31.000Is it possible that the fractal nature of reality manifests itself in the idea of these demons being that you must reinforce good and you must punish bad and the only way these dumb people ever really completely understand is if they feel a physical manifestation?
02:23:12.000Where it's most terrifying, your common enemies that you have in real life, whether it's predators or enemies, they're a physical manifestation.
02:23:46.000Do they have an independent existence from us or are they part of a teaching program that we need to encounter, as you're suggesting just now?
02:23:52.000I think they're very interesting questions to examine, but I don't know the answer to them.
02:23:56.000I've always had an issue with the possibility of archetypes, too, that people have already established.
02:24:02.000That archetypes that people already have in their head so that when you have an abduction experience, what you think is an abduction experience, you sort of fill in the blanks with whatever these entities are.
02:24:11.000All of a sudden they become these grey guys with big black eyes because that's the cultural archetype that we've sort of subscribed to.
02:24:26.000Well, particularly on the walls of, in fact, on a little alcove and a ceiling inside Peshmerl Cave in France, there's a fantastically recognizable depiction of what we would call a grey today.
02:24:51.000And he is pierced through the body with a number of spears and he has this kind of high-domed forehead and narrow pointed chin and just a hint of large dark eyes.
02:25:01.000Do you think that these things are actually physically visiting or do you think that there's a chemical doorway that's opened through psychedelics or through some technology and that that's how they're appearing?
02:25:15.000I think that we have a hidden doorway inside our minds through which we can project our consciousness into other levels of reality.
02:25:24.000I can't prove that, but that's what I think may be going on.
02:25:29.000That's what it feels to you when you experience you?
02:25:31.000That's what it feels to me like, that I'm entering a seamlessly convincing And again, I want to stress the point that because you've had this experience, these true experiences, if they're just a hallucination, a byproduct of the mind that is impossible to prove,
02:25:46.000you're still having the exact same experience.
02:25:49.000Yeah, you're still having the exact same experience.
02:25:50.000And there you come back to the point we made earlier, that what do you then learn from that experience?
02:25:54.000And if you grow in some way through that experience, it doesn't really matter whether it's Freestanding reality or whether it's something you projected.
02:26:03.000And as we become more interconnected with our ability to communicate and our idea that the human race really is one gigantic superorganism, as we accept that idea more and more, it opens up a lot of other possibilities.
02:26:19.000It opens up a lot of possibilities for just our overall view of things.
02:26:27.000This is the new Copernican revolution that we're poised on the edge of.
02:26:34.000At one time, it was considered that the Sun went around the Earth.
02:26:42.000And that all the stars revolved around the Earth, and the Earth was fixed and still in the center.
02:26:46.000And then some people started having experiences, or if you like, finding data which contradicted that, and eventually a whole world view was thrown away.
02:26:55.000And I think we're at the edge of moving into a whole new revolution about the nature of reality, that it is just much more complicated than we've imagined.
02:27:07.000That's a kind of sketch of the Peshmel figure.
02:27:09.000That's not the original cave painting, and I'm afraid the only UFOs that are actually present are the ones above the individual's head.
02:27:16.000The other two are not there in the painting.
02:27:17.000So let's go see if you can find the original one, Jamie, because that one looks like shit.
02:27:57.000There's no Frank Frazetta on cave walls.
02:27:59.000I mean, the caves, this is one of the great experiences we can have as human beings, is to go into those painted caves and go in in silence and in darkness and just get a sense of the atmosphere.
02:28:50.000They visited them in small numbers, often separated.
02:28:54.000There might be an interval of 2,000 years between when one group went in and when another group went in.
02:28:58.000So our idea of cave art, as the layperson's idea, is cavemen were inside this cave, and at nighttime they would light fires and draw cave art.
02:29:41.000This is the new discovery that some of the very oldest cave art was almost certainly done by Neanderthals.
02:29:45.000So the Neanderthal image is due for a complete rehabilitation very, very, very soon.
02:29:52.000The Neanderthals – the image that we have of Neanderthals is completely wrong.
02:29:57.000But there's a thing I call six million years of boredom, which is from the last common ancestor with the chimpanzee through until well after the emergence of anatomically modern humans, our ancestors were very dull, judging by what they left behind, judging by what they produced.
02:30:17.000They were not – they did not have spiritual concepts or ideas.
02:30:21.000And it's rather like a light is switched on in the human brain all around the world somewhere after 100,000 years ago, really 40,000 years ago, that we get this amazing explosion of symbolic art and suddenly you recognize that the creatures are just like us and that we are dealing with people we could communicate with on a symbolic level.
02:30:47.000And I made this case extensively in my book, Supernatural, that what happened to our ancestors was encounters with psychedelics.
02:30:55.000That's what took us out of the dull and boring zone and put us into the realm of imagination and creativity and spirit.
02:31:04.000Well, it's a fascinating idea, and it's a weird one to dismiss because we know that the impact of psychedelics on the mind is so astonishing.
02:31:12.000It's very poo-pooed and marginalized because it's thought to be frivolous and silly, but that's only by people who haven't done it.
02:31:19.000It's one of the weirdest things where it's persecuted by people who really need it more than anybody.
02:31:26.000I mean, for those who've never had a psychedelic experience, To put down others who have had it and to tell them that that experience is wrong, I mean, that's like a celibate telling somebody not to have sex.
02:31:43.000The celibate has no experience of the thing that they're talking about.
02:31:46.000How dare they make judgments about that?
02:31:52.000But I think that people like you that are brave enough to speak out about this and, in fact, even write books about it, that's the ripples that sends out this information and the universe picks it up.
02:32:02.000And the internet grabs it and duplicates it and throws it up on Twitter and then, boom, we're off to the races.
02:32:08.000And new ideas are introduced into the minds of the young people who I think, that's what gives me hope.
02:32:22.000That grew up with the internet and that are not going to put up with all that shit any longer that comes down from a hierarchical, controlling, dominator culture.
02:36:15.000I think we're dealing with a phenomenon.
02:36:16.000And I think we as a culture or certain members of our culture are jumping to the conclusion that creatures a bit like us, perhaps looking slightly different, In very high-tech craft are crossing interstellar space.
02:36:29.000There's a beautiful picture from Chauvet.
02:36:31.000Are crossing interstellar space and are coming here in technology.
02:36:34.000I personally think, again, I can't prove it, but I think it's more likely we're dealing with interdimensional contexts, that these entities are not high-tech aliens from a planet a bit like ours, but they're coming to us from literally the other side of reality.
02:36:49.000Well, my unfortunate labeling aside, calling them aliens, I meant that archetype that you say repeats itself over and over again.
02:36:56.000Yeah, South Africa, for example, in the Drakensberg Mountains, images just like that.
02:37:01.000What's the best example we could pull up right now?
02:37:03.000I don't think you'd be able to pull this up.
02:37:05.000No, they don't have those images online?
02:37:40.000But then you find similar things from Tassili in Algeria.
02:37:43.000You know, these kind of glowing figures that seem to, it's very easy to construe them as alien visitors from other planets.
02:37:52.000Why do so many drugs, like whether it's ayahuasca or there's other ones that have archetypes that are built in like snakes and jaguars, what do you think that is?
02:38:02.000Do you think that's the experiences of the people that have taken it before you?
02:38:06.000Well, first of all, I don't think it's that we don't know what an archetype is.
02:38:10.000There's this idea that the human brain has all these patterns and shapes just built into it archetypally.
02:38:15.000I think just as possible is that there are other levels of reality in which entities are able to look like that, shape-shifting entities that can take on many different forms.
02:38:28.000For example, everyone who drinks ayahuasca, pretty much everyone, if they persist with it, will encounter serpents.
02:38:36.000And those serpents aren't Like your everyday serpent, you know, they're 500 feet long with mouths the size of cars and richly colored and patterned and intelligent.
02:38:53.000MR. Now, why is it that somebody who drinks ayahuasca in Tokyo and somebody who drinks it in New York and somebody who drinks it in the Amazon, that they all encounter these serpent, intelligent serpent entities?
02:39:04.000MR. Well, I think that there's something out there which chooses to manifest in that form, and I think that it's being witnessed just as if Three different explorers went into the jungle and met the same previously uncontacted tribe and came back and drew us images.
02:39:19.000And I think that there is some reality to it.
02:39:27.000So like Rick Strassman's work with DMT, which I know that you're familiar with because you presented the DMT, the spirit molecule documentary, that a number of his volunteers encounter entities who say to them, we're so glad you've discovered this technology.
02:39:44.000Now we can communicate with you more often.
02:40:39.000Click on the microphone in the upper right-hand corner and use the code word JRE. And thank you also to Onnit.com.
02:40:48.000Go to O-N-N-I-T. Use the code name ROGAN and save yourself 10% off any and all supplements.
02:40:55.000We will be back on Monday with Dave Asprey.
02:41:00.000A lot of people really enjoyed his first talk and he's got a lot of new information.
02:41:05.000I know a lot of folks have questions about the whole Bulletproof Exec.
02:41:09.000Go to BulletproofExec.com if you want to prepare for this and Find out what the fuck Dave Asprey's all about, but he's a brilliant guy, and we look forward to talking to him on Monday.