In this week's episode, the boys are joined by lawyer and multi-level marketing guru, Jim Rogan. They talk about how he went from being a lawyer to running a computer company, and how he got started in multi level marketing. They also talk about the invention of the hair care product, aloe vera, and what it's like to be a lawyer in the late 80s and early 90s. And, of course, there's a lot more. Thanks to our sponsor, LegalZoom, for sponsoring this episode! If you like what you hear here, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and other podcasting platforms! You can also join our FB group, and join the conversation by using the hashtag on the Apple App Store or Google Play, and find us on Insta or wherever else you re listening. Thanks for listening and share the podcast with your friends and family! Timestamps: 5:00 - How to become a lawyer 6:30 - What is a lawyer? 7:15 - How much money does it take to run a multi- level marketing company 9:00 10:00s - What's it take? 11:40 - How do you make? 12:30s - How does it feel like a pyramid scheme? 15:00 s 16:20 - What kind of lawyer do you are? 17: What are you looking for? 18:40s 19:20s 21:30 s 22:30 What s a day? 26: What do you want? 27:40 29:30 is it a good day 32:40 s 35:40 is it possible to make money? 33:40 What s your favorite thing to do with your face? 36:00 Is it better than a facelift? 35 + 35:00 + 36:30? 37:40 Is it possible? 39:00 is it better? 40:40 Does it get better than that? 41: What does it work for you? 45: What s it all up? 44:00? 47:00 Does it work better than you can get more than one of those things? 42:30 Is it a problem?
00:00:14.000Well, at least you don't have a 30 or 60 minute show that you have to put your commercials in the middle and everything.
00:00:19.000By the way, I'll give a plug for LegalZoom.
00:00:22.000When I first came to California, it took me two days in a law library to get up to speed so I could write my will.
00:00:28.000And I was glad to see that there's still a discount with Rogan because that's my project this month is to redo my will.
00:00:34.000And, you know, I've known about LegalZoom for a long time and it's a really good group.
00:00:38.000That's another thing that I think the internet sort of made a lot easier, finding out what your rights are, finding out how the law applies.
00:00:46.000Lawyers mainly know how to use the library and have their secretaries type up all these things, you know, because they've got go-bys.
00:00:53.000And so LegalZoom can take care of probably 95% of all your stuff.
00:00:57.000How did you go from being a lawyer to running a computer company?
00:01:00.000Well, I was practicing law in Houston, and we had primarily a business law.
00:01:07.000My partner and I owned a title insurance company, and it was in the heyday in Houston when the savings and loan thing was going on.
00:01:14.000But one day, our main client came in, and he had a big construction company, and he wanted to sue one of his subcontractors.
00:01:39.000And that was when I just, it had been building up to that because I'd been doing stuff that, I didn't become a lawyer to hurt people and do stuff like that.
00:01:47.000And So I just walked away from it and I got involved in multi-level marketing.
00:02:21.000We'd do a meeting and a bunch of people would be there, and you'd paint half their face with this stuff and leave it on for like 30 minutes and take it off.
00:05:30.000We'd go back after the thing would be over, we'd get off stage, and, oh, gee, my wife is leaving me, and I'm broke, and, you know, all these things.
00:05:38.000We had more problems than our audience combined, probably.
00:05:41.000That's hilarious, but you had some good ideas.
00:05:43.000You just had to figure out how to use them yourself.
00:05:44.000They were all, you know, from 100 years ago, you know.
00:05:54.000He's super successful at that, but what else has he done?
00:05:56.000I mean, has he had a successful real business?
00:05:59.000You know, when he first came on the scene, I just started kicking myself because I said, gosh, I was doing that and I'm better than him, you know?
00:07:45.000When I was going to law school in Houston, the only celebrity I saw that wasn't a celebrity then was Glenn Campbell was singing for tips in this bar I used to go to.
00:07:55.000But I used to hang out in Lightning Hopkins' bar.
00:08:47.000They had that whole Houston annex down back in then.
00:08:51.000They had like a real creative group of young up-and-coming comedians and they, you know, they started this thing, the Houston Comedy Outlaws.
00:08:57.000And it was Hicks and Kinison and a bunch of other guys.
00:09:07.000Well, because of Kinison, they all had this unique style, this very aggressive, in-your-face, thoughtful style of comedy, breaking things down in a very logical way, but making good points, but also being really bold about it.
00:09:24.000I heard you and I think it was Mark Maron talking about Kinnison.
00:09:28.000Boy, that really gave me a whole new...
00:09:30.000Maron has some amazing Kinnison stories.
00:09:33.000When he was on this podcast, he was talking about doing coke with Kinnison and how he was hearing voices for like a year.
00:09:40.000And he was a young kid then when he was with him.
00:11:00.000People would travel from far and wide to go to Kelly's.
00:11:03.000So we were driving back from that, and there was...
00:11:05.000This people behind us, people beside us in this car were doing coke, and there was a girl in the backseat, and they had the light, the dome light on, and she was doing coke, and she looks over and sees us looking at her, and she goes like this, fuck you!
00:11:18.000She's, like, as they're driving by, just looks at me, and I'm like, anger and craziness in her eyes, fuck you!
00:11:26.000I view coke is like, that lady, I was looking at her, you're doing coke, you have the dome light on, and I'm looking at you and you're mad at me?
00:11:39.000It's another one of those things that your body connects to chemicals and it becomes a massive part of your life for some really strange reason.
00:13:29.000I was like, what's going on with my brain?
00:13:31.000I didn't know about 5-HTP. I didn't know about supplementing afterwards to try to re-kickstart your brain's ability to produce serotonin and dopamine.
00:13:44.000I enjoyed the experience as far as what I got out of it, but I also thought this would be very dangerous because that reality of the loving, warm, ecstasy feeling when you're locked into it is very appealing.
00:14:29.000Well, I don't know if the story ever really got out, but this guy, he went by the name Thomas Crown.
00:14:35.000He was really the mainstay, although there's a guy that, I'll think of his name in a minute, everybody thought was the number one guy in Dallas.
00:14:45.000He was a good friend of Tim Leary, and he's out here in LA, and Tim Leary says, here, try this.
00:16:04.000And I still have these two 90-minute cassette tapes that I filled up talking that whole time.
00:16:09.000I've never had the courage to listen to them again.
00:16:12.000But from that time, for another seven years, I tried MDMA about five years ago, not long after nothing happened, five years after nothing happened.
00:16:21.000About seven years after, I finally got MDMA to work again.
00:18:30.000It certainly is, but for PTSD, there's nothing like MDMA. No, MDMA. But see, that would be used with a doctor who knows his supply and stuff like that.
00:18:40.000Now, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with dancing.
00:19:14.000And yet there's these illegal ones that are just floating around out there, and they're in commerce, they're in connection, money's being exchanged back and forth, people are taking them.
00:19:23.000There's no way you can ever regulate that unless you make it legal.
00:19:53.000Like if they would go to the truck stop.
00:19:55.000You know, I really don't ever give much thought to those kind of things because, you know, I'm not an activist in drug policy or stuff like that.
00:20:01.000And so, you know, mushrooms you can grow at home now.
00:20:04.000There's a new method to grow them in hydrogen peroxide so you don't have to worry about all this, you know, sanitation stuff.
00:20:23.000I'll tell you another thing not to try, not that it's not dangerous, but when I first moved to Florida, a little after that, several years after I moved there, and I'd lost all my connections and stuff.
00:20:35.000The word on the street was that nutmeg was very similar to MDMA, and you could take some nutmeg.
00:20:43.000So I got one of those little McCormick tins of nutmeg, and I capped it all.
00:20:48.000And I took, you know, not the big tin, but the...
00:22:42.000Well, to find out more about, you know, a new drug will hit the streets, and that's one of the first places they'll go to find out what it's about.
00:23:47.000You know, in the original hearing for cannabis when they were going to make it illegal in 1937, The only medical testimony was from the AMA, and that was in favor of cannabis, and they cut the guy off and threw him out of the hearing.
00:24:56.000After all these years, people are finally starting to catch on.
00:25:00.000Yeah, I've turned on people in their 60s that were very anti-drug, but they are all of a sudden in all this pain or they're going through cancer treatments or something.
00:25:55.000Have you ever had any experience when you were on any sort of a psychedelic that you felt was like...
00:26:04.000Some sort of a paranormal experience, like a UFO experience, or like being in contact with something or seeing something that you experienced where it felt like it was a real thing?
00:26:19.000Mainly on ayahuasca, but there was this one time that still is just crystal clear to me where there was this, we were sitting in darkness, you know, and It appeared like there was a black curtain in front of me with just a really bright light coming out from the bottom.
00:26:37.000And from back behind me, this female kind of entity is just very dark and shadowy.
00:27:08.000And some of my friends said, I can't believe you didn't let her pick it up.
00:27:12.000But it was like a message, like, you are this bright, shining spirit behind this thing.
00:27:18.000To me, that was a real entity encounter of some kind.
00:27:22.000So you think that that was like an interdimensional thing that you were communicating with?
00:27:26.000It could have been or it could have been a figment of my imagination.
00:27:28.000You know, I not tried to distinguish between it because the emotional impact of what went on and what I was thinking and saying and afraid to look at my own core was kind of fascinating, you know?
00:27:40.000Well, it's also what is the source of the imagination and why is the imagination so obviously affected by different chemicals?
00:27:48.000And where does the imagination come from?
00:27:50.000Well, the imagination is clearly affected by cannabis, clearly also affected by caffeine, clearly also affected by alcohol, definitely affected by psilocybin, definitely affected by many, many, many other things.
00:28:02.000You have ideas that are different than the ideas that you have if you're in a baseline sober consciousness.
00:28:07.000And the real question then becomes, what exactly is imagination?
00:28:12.000Is imagination just a series of chemicals interacting with neurons, interacting with thoughts and ideas and learned experiences?
00:28:19.000Because out of the imagination comes everything that everyone ever used on Earth.
00:28:25.000The thing that wasn't here already, anything we made, whether it's a phone or a television set or a curtain, that all came out of the imagination.
00:28:34.000So the imagination isn't just some thing where you think things up and they, well, you know, maybe I just imagined it.
00:29:01.000Without the human imagination, the world would look radically different.
00:29:06.000It would be 100% natural and we'd be animals.
00:29:09.000The imagination is the one step that takes us from animal Into animal that changes its environment radically and starts to transcend itself, starts to symbiotically attach itself to its own creations, which coincidentally came out of the imagination.
00:29:25.000The imagination created technology that, like the glasses you're wearing, or the watch I'm wearing, or any of the things we're talking through, these microphones, all of that is technology created through the imagination.
00:29:59.000And recently, a podcast I put out, McKenna says something to the effect of, what makes us think that the entire cosmos can be understood using the neural network of a primate?
00:30:10.000He says, we're here to observe and appreciate.
00:30:48.000And there's a lot of theories about that, but one of the more fascinating ones to me is that they are absolutely convinced that whether or not they can survive it or not, cell phone signals are damaging bees.
00:31:13.000The real super high-frequency power lines, yeah, there have been.
00:31:17.000In fact, I know somebody who died of cancer quite young.
00:31:21.000Who lived under those for a long time.
00:31:23.000Now, that was anecdotal, but I think there have been some studies now showing, because people in certain neighborhoods have sued and things like that.
00:31:32.000I've been around them before where you feel them.
00:33:36.000But as soon as you start developing, like, you have a standard amount of money you have to make every month, you're just saying that people never improve.
00:33:45.000You're just saying that people will never get better at following the law, never get better at being safer.
00:33:50.000And just the fact that you bank on that, you have a quota, that's disgusting.
00:33:54.000There were known speed traps in Texas, you know, that you wouldn't go through this town because it was 15 miles an hour and 16 and get you a ticket.
00:34:30.000And now when Jamie put up a picture just a moment ago, but now in Colorado, they're developing this new technology to tell if someone's smoking pot enough.
00:35:00.000Those are the 40% that didn't vote for it.
00:35:02.000It may be that, or it may just be the fact that people are just fucking out of control, and there's just weeds blowing everywhere, like tumbleweed.
00:35:10.000You know, like the smell of weed just wafting through entire communities, and people are catching contact ties, and they've had enough.
00:35:15.000Well, you know, it used to be you'd put your pot in coffee.
00:35:18.000And the dogs couldn't smell it for the coffee.
00:35:21.000Now they've trained the dogs to look for the coffee as well.
00:35:23.000I don't know if this is true, but a friend of mine told me that what he's been doing is buying bear piss.
00:35:30.000And wolf piss and sprinkling it around his tires and in his trunk because, as he says, when a drug dog smells it, they go crazy.
00:35:38.000They forget about drugs totally and they want to go attack a bear, you know?
00:38:18.000Apparently seal oil is very important for them because it's very high in calories and the cold you deal with.
00:38:23.000Apparently that's one of the worst losses of calories is your body burning off calories to keep itself warm.
00:38:34.000It's like one of the best ways they say to lose weight is to actually to walk around with like less jacket or less coats than you would feel comfortable with because your body in order to keep warm is actually burning off energy.
00:38:59.000There's a guy who's got a farm that's overrun with deer, and he brings in people to hunt them, to manage them every year, because the reality is, as you said, especially in Wisconsin, a lot of them are going to die by predators, a lot of them are going to get hit by cars, a lot of them are going to freeze to death, and in order to keep the herd healthy and manage them,
00:39:32.000I think if you're going to be a meat eater, you know, to know the exact source of your meat.
00:39:37.000I think it's probably the best, the most ethical and sort of sane way to do it.
00:39:42.000The disconnect between us and our food, I love growing food in a garden and then cooking and eating the vegetables that you grow.
00:39:49.000I mean, I think it's a beautiful thing.
00:39:51.000It's an interesting connection that you have between where your food actually comes from.
00:39:55.000I have chickens now and I get fresh eggs from the chickens.
00:39:58.000And I'm trying to get closer and closer to my food, if that makes any sense.
00:40:02.000Well, we eat mainly organic, or almost all organic, but mainly vegetables.
00:40:06.000We eat chicken maybe twice a month, and we have a friend that slaughters his pig once a year, and we know how it's grown and raised and everything.
00:40:14.000But mainly vegetarians, but all of our food, most of it comes within 25 to 40 miles of our house, you know?
00:40:38.000But the idea of getting together, everybody buying in on a plot of land, and then hiring someone to run that plot of land and produce food for this group of people.
00:40:48.000Like, say, get 20 people together and say, well, this is our grocery bill for the year.
00:40:52.000If we can manage a plot of land and buy a plot of land together, everybody pay for 1 20th of it or whatever, and then hire someone to take care of everything and hire a few people, rather.
00:41:31.000But that way, we don't have to get our own group together.
00:41:33.000Now, we've gotten a bunch of people involved in this, and some people don't like Like pomegranates or persimmons or whatever comes sometimes in the basket.
00:41:41.000And so we swap around with each other and stuff.
00:41:43.000And so we usually eat everything so I get all the throwaways from everything.
00:43:19.000I told this one of my grandchildren, I said, you know, if I'm not around when some young man breaks your heart, I will come back and haunt him.
00:43:30.000The guy, why is it his fault he doesn't want to be around her anymore?
00:43:34.000Well, see, I have five grandchildren, four girls.
00:43:38.000If it wasn't for that, I'd have a little problem with women, but I have a new sensitivity to women.
00:43:43.000Well, I have a very good sensitivity to women, too, and I have three daughters.
00:43:46.000But my point is that a lot of heartbreak comes from the fact that people just decide they don't want to be with you anymore, and it doesn't work out right.
00:43:52.000And people think that when someone leaves them that they're taking something away from them, and they feel this deep sense of loss, and they're connected to the idea.
00:43:59.000Part of growing as a person is realizing you're going to be okay.
00:44:02.000And here's where MDMA would be really cool if it was legal.
00:44:06.000Because when you and your partner get to the point and say, If it's bad for one person, it's going to be bad for both of them, even if you're not talking about it.
00:44:13.000So if you sat down, got together one evening, just the two of you, did MDMA, and talked it out.
00:44:18.000Now, I know from personal experience that my marriage, my previous marriage, was really getting rocky when I found MDMA. And we stayed together another six, seven years.
00:44:47.000It was a rocky period for a while, but we've worked ourselves through that to where we both respect each other and we realize that it was not a one-way street.
00:44:55.000But I think that MDMA would be great for couples therapy of people when they hit that seven-year mark or whatever it is.
00:45:05.000Well, I think there's a lot of things that people hold in and they repress in relationships and don't communicate about.
00:45:10.000And then sometimes a psychedelic journey together can open those ideas up and you start talking about things and you find out that there's been a misunderstanding all along or that it could have been a lack of communication, that you could have worked things out much better, much easier a long time ago, or that you're both feeling the same way, that you both want to move on.
00:45:26.000You know, I've had one experience where I... It went on for months, something was building up, and finally, you know, I got it out, and she said, huh, that's no big deal, you know?
00:45:36.000And it's something that had been a big deal to me for a long time, and it turned out, if I'd just been talking about it, I would have had a month of bliss instead of hell, you know?
00:45:44.000So, communication is the key, and there are some things that help you communicate.
00:45:57.000Now, I wouldn't want to not have any of my heartbreaks and stuff like that.
00:46:01.000You just don't want to see your grandchildren.
00:46:02.000I just don't want to see it happen to somebody else.
00:46:03.000I understand, and I agree to a certain extent, but I think it's very important that everybody goes through a certain amount of it, just to understand what it's about.
00:46:13.000Look, I've had friends that have gone through it where I know they became better people because of it.
00:46:18.000I have a friend who went through a devastating breakup, and now he laughs about the idea of being stuck with that woman.
00:46:24.000You know, back then he thought there was no way he could live without her.
00:46:28.000It doesn't matter what happens to you, how big the tragedy is, that after enough time passes, Eventually, that becomes one of your funniest stories.
00:46:49.000But, you know, if you think about some things that happened, seemed to be a tragedy at the time, and usually they're not between people, you know, cars.
00:47:43.000Yeah, the idea, especially when you're an older person and you've experienced so much pain and hardship and you see the innocence of children is how beautiful it is.
00:48:04.000They don't know the rebellion against taxing and all the different aspects of society that bring people to this hysterical freakout point where you're like, this fucking thing is, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.
00:51:43.000What is that like when you're up in a basket near space?
00:51:46.000It's just awesome because, now it gets loud when you burn, but then when you're not burning, you're just floating, it's quiet, and you can hear the sound, you know, there's no obstruction, so you can hear people talking on the ground.
00:51:57.000In Dallas, there was this one track that we would take on Sunday morning because there was a A woman who would lay out in her backyard by the lake.
00:52:04.000And so we would come in, we'd burn, and then we'd come up high so that we'd coast down in low and come over the lake and just, and then we'd say, good morning.
00:54:51.000I had one guy wanted to pay me to take him up in a parachute, and he wanted to jump out, but I didn't want to do it because once the guy jumps out, you get so much lighter, and if you shoot up too fast, you'll collapse the envelope.
00:55:03.000That doesn't happen very often, but they're really safe.
00:55:15.000And you have a line that goes through it, a rope.
00:55:17.000And you pull it and bleed air out of the top and let it go.
00:55:20.000And then when you're actually landing, the top is held in by Velcro.
00:55:24.000And so, except for the little flap that's open, when you're just ready to land, you rip that, it's called pull the top out.
00:55:31.000You pull the top out, and then it'll deflate and land down.
00:55:33.000Sometimes your landings are a little rough.
00:55:35.000You know, I've had landings where I dragged for 50 or 100 yards, where I bounced up and all.
00:55:40.000You know, that conditions sometimes make it tough.
00:55:44.000In North Texas at the time, you had to be really...
00:55:47.000You know, you're allowed to land anywhere when you're landing.
00:55:50.000You know, the FAA lets you because if you're out of fuel.
00:55:54.000And there was this one farm up in North Texas, up by Cisco, I think it was.
00:55:59.000And whenever the balloons would come and landing, you could see dust coming on these gravel roads from two directions.
00:56:04.000One would be this farmer with his pickup and his shotgun, and the other would be the sheriff to come to protect you because the farmer hated you landing on their lawn.
00:56:11.000You know, when ballooning started in France...
00:56:14.000They would carry a bottle of champagne to give to the farmer when they landed as, hey, thank you for letting us land here.
00:57:57.000My friend Willie has a KLPJ. The radio station had a guy come in that's a...
00:58:07.000That had a jetpack guy come in and he launched a jetpack in the parking lot and flew through the air for like 10 seconds.
00:58:12.000You can only do it for like 10 seconds.
00:58:14.000And it was like within X amount of years we're going to be able to do five minutes and then X amount of years after that they think they're going to figure out some sort of power source that's going to be able to make it a viable mode of transportation.
00:58:26.000But it was very complicated as far as like the controlling.
00:58:45.000You have to learn about procedures with the FAA because you have to call the FAA in the morning, get a weather report and all, and you tell them where you're going to launch so they know some balloons are going to be in the area.
00:58:53.000How much different is that than a blimp?
01:00:32.000And they landed, and it delayed the fight for, like, a half an hour while they had to arrest this guy and bring in police, and they beat the guy up and everything like that.
01:00:39.000And then it sort of changed the atmosphere of the fight because there was a big break in the middle of the fight and everybody cooled off and then had to go at it again.
01:00:48.000I used to walk in the bluffs down by Del Mar, which are up maybe 30 feet or something.
01:00:53.000And one day, a guy came by in one of those.
01:00:55.000He was a parachute, had a big fan on the back, and he was at eye level with me.
01:02:32.000They used to have them in an Indian casino in California back when mixed martial arts was illegal in California.
01:02:39.000So they would hold them in this outside casino, and one time it started raining.
01:02:43.000It was pouring rain out, and so they decided to let the fights continue in the pouring rain.
01:02:48.000So these people are fighting, and they're slipping, and they're trying to throw kicks, and they're falling on their ass, and people are climbing on top, and they're soaking wet.
01:02:56.000It was like the craziest, and they released it as a DVD. I think it's called King of the Cage Wet and Wild, but it's a really insane series of fights where people are trying to fight in a torrential rainstorm.
01:03:28.000And when he'd come out in the ring in the beginning, his hair would be up, and he'd take bobby pins out of his hair and throw them out to the audience.
01:03:36.000I was so disappointed I didn't catch one.
01:04:10.000I don't think you realize what you're doing, but you're filling in a role here for a lot of young people that, you know, you don't know how smart you are.
01:04:19.000Maybe you do, but you're extremely well-read.
01:04:23.000You're talking to Graham Hancock about stuff.
01:04:25.000I read the headlines, and you know all these terms about the skull and stuff like that.
01:04:30.000But what you're doing is you're taking a really high-level intellectual product to the masses and to especially young people that maybe hadn't had the advantage to go to college or something, and they find out, hey, they're as smart as anybody that went to college.
01:04:43.000And you're really doing a really good service with these podcasts.
01:04:54.000Well, I read a lot of things, but, you know, I mean, what is education if not reading, but as far as, like, formal education?
01:04:59.000And also as far as, like, I don't, you know, I just like what I like.
01:05:04.000I'm interested in certain things, and I find that there's a lot of things out there that are fascinating that people just aren't paying attention to.
01:05:10.000And I think what I see and what we talk about on the podcast is really reflected by what I see on Twitter and what I see on the internet, when I go to the various websites that I visit for information.
01:05:21.000I see just a massive new upsurge in curiosity.
01:05:27.000I think that people are way more curious than they ever have been before just by virtue of the fact they're getting more information than they've ever gotten before.
01:05:35.000So I think what this podcast is, we came along in the right place at the right time, and it was the right type of person in me that kind of can bridge a few different worlds together.
01:05:51.000We might look different, but there's prejudice against people who engage in martial arts and exercise, just like there's prejudice against people who smoke pot.
01:06:00.000And some of it's justified, and some of it's not.
01:06:02.000Yeah, there's assholes in every group.
01:07:51.000My job is to get the, you know, I'm a carnival barker.
01:07:53.000And all of the masters, copies are going to Arrowwood of all the masters, and then the real master tapes and all are going to go back to Finn McKenna.
01:09:23.000And they can go to LorenzoHaggerty.com and it has links to a little 15-minute video of my life and then the MDMA story in Dallas is there and all the links are LorenzoHaggerty.com.