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00:09:29.000A sure sign, sir, that we live in a mad, mad world is when a person has sane ideas and he comes across as a revolutionary.
00:09:37.000And I have Joel Salatin, for folks who don't know, he is an American farmer, a lecturer, you're an author.
00:09:44.000And your approach to farming is so natural and so normal and so, in my opinion, non-controversial.
00:09:56.000It's quite fascinating that in this day and age, with this mad, mad world of factory farming and pumping these animals full of hormones and chemicals and antibiotics, that your approach has sort of revolutionized a lot of the ideas that people have about farming.
00:10:17.000I think it's a real sign that there's something wrong with us.
00:10:22.000When I watch your methods and I've seen your videos and I've heard you talk on it, it seems like no nonsense, it seems like it seems normal, it seems like common sense, it seems like old knowledge, but yet you're looked at as some sort of a wild man out there.
00:11:17.000I mean, that's like a fundamental natural pattern.
00:11:21.000And so if you posit, oh, animals are supposed to move?
00:11:25.000Well, then a whole series of things happen, you know, from control mechanisms, shelter, water delivery systems, all sorts of things happen to happen if you just posit something as intuitively simple as, on our farm,
00:12:27.000I mean, so the industrial system is predicated on, you know, we lock all these animals up in a confinement facility, you know, 15,000 chickens in a house, Nine laying hens in a 16 by 22 inch cubicle.
00:12:43.000I mean, there's not enough room even to sit down.
00:14:52.000And so how do we create this disturbance?
00:14:56.000This is a very important ecological principle that living organisms have to be disturbed in order to have succession to another level, whether it's The pain that comes from exercise.
00:15:16.000If you want to be physically fit, you got to disturb your body.
00:15:36.000And so we use high-tech electric fencing to be able to move these pigs around in these forest glens from one little section to another in a kind of rapid rotation so that we have very intense disturbance and then a long period of rest.
00:15:54.000Intense disturbance, and what that does is the pigs then go in and they till, they eat bugs that would affect the trees, they root out starchy, weedy species, things like that, and eat a lot of goodies.
00:16:10.000They get fresh air, they get exercise, sunshine, and are able to fully express their pigness.
00:16:17.000And what you end up with then is an incredibly nutrient-dense product as opposed to a white meat flabby product like out of the industry.
00:16:28.000And the other thing is that you now have a whole new bunch of species that have germinated and sprouted in this disturbed environment, this disturbed soil, and you actually...
00:16:43.000You actually capture more solar energy than you would with just leaves and sterile forest bottom.
00:16:50.000So the actual product, the pig itself, would be more like a wild pig then?
00:16:55.000In fact, we supply about 50 restaurants and we've had chefs do displacement tests where they'll get like industry pork and our pork and using their very Carefully calibrated scales,
00:17:11.000they can make two blocks of meat that are exactly the same weight, put them in a pan of water, measure the displacement, and our pork displaces less water per pound than the industrial pork.
00:19:26.000Yeah, so, you know, my father-in-law, he's in his 80s now, and, you know, they used to raise hogs on their farm.
00:19:32.000And it's interesting, they built there, they had a kind of a shed shelter where the pigs would go in and eat, like, soured milk and whey and leftovers from, they had milked about 20 cows, and so there'd always be leftovers.
00:19:47.000Well, they actually built it with the sill Two feet above the ground so the pigs had to jump up in there and that exercise made their hams taste way better and it increased oxygen flow to their hams so the meat was rose-colored rather than white.
00:20:06.000And that rose color indicates iron, hemoglobin iron.
00:20:11.000So the exercise of jumping in and the extra...
00:20:25.000If you read any old 1910, 1920, 1900 swine book, the first thing it'll say is, exercise, exercise, because the pork responds to that oxygenation.
00:20:41.000Of the blood and makes the meat a deep, rich color, which indicates iron.
00:22:43.000I've never seen a research project that starts with an umbrella supposition Let's define what makes a happy chicken or a happy pig.
00:22:54.000It's all about how do we grow them faster, fatter, bigger, cheaper, as if they're just inanimate piles of protoplasmic structure to be manipulated however cleverly Hubris can imagine to manipulate them.
00:23:08.000And I would suggest that a culture that views its food, its plant, and its animals from that kind of mechanistic, manipulative standpoint That's a very good point.
00:24:07.000Which means that if you or I could click our fingers today and suddenly double the Earth's food production, not a single other person would get a meal.
00:24:20.000People go hungry not because there's not enough food, but because of food.
00:24:26.000Demographic problems, infrastructure problems, there's not a road, cultural issues like in inner cities that have been taken over by drugs, mayhem, and...
00:25:13.000Secondly, there is a tremendous amount of land that's not being used because we have a fundamentally segregated food system, not an integrated food system.
00:25:25.000So we produce the food over here, and we eat it over here, we feed it over here, we have the manure over here.
00:25:34.000The old integrated system is no longer...
00:25:38.000There are 35 million acres of lawn in the U.S. and 36 million acres housing and feeding recreational horses.
00:25:54.000So this food that's going bad, so if we're making twice as much food as people need, is it a matter of the food deteriorating too quickly to get to people or it's never going to get to people?
00:26:21.000One of the reasons, I mean there are numerous reasons.
00:26:23.000There are residue problems, for example, you know, a dairy that accidentally dumps some antibiotic, for example, and then it taints a whole tractor trailer load of milk.
00:28:05.000So that instead of growing one species, if you reduce the production of one species and grow two species on the same area, you get like 120% of your production.
00:28:20.000So for example, we have pastured livestock, so we run the cows across the pasture.
00:28:29.000The egg mobiles have chickens that Scratch through the cow patties and eat now the newly exposed grasshoppers and crickets that the cows exposed by eating the grass.
00:28:40.000And then we run broiler chickens, meat chickens, over that same ground.
00:28:47.000And so all of those animals, they're not on the same square foot at the same time, but they go like...
00:28:58.000Different waves of production across the landscape.
00:29:04.000And so, whereas the normal farm would have only one of those species confined in a little tiny building, we have an acre being used all throughout the year with a lot of different kinds of species going across.
00:29:20.000Suddenly you don't have the pathogens because the pathogens are confused because, you know, The cow pathogen hatches out next to a chicken pathogen and they're toxic to each other.
00:29:35.000So they have a war and they fight and they die.
00:31:11.000Rather than having a stationary structure where we're carrying everything in and carrying everything out and there's a toxicity buildup with the animals being confined to one spot all the time, instead you are actually allowing the animals to move to mimic kind of their migratory pattern on a domestic scale.
00:31:34.000All we're doing is we're cutting out the natural template.
00:31:39.000And laying it down on a domestic production model, say, how can we duplicate this pattern on a domestic model?
00:32:10.000What is it that's beneficial about those factory farms that keeps them from doing something like this?
00:32:16.000Well, what you have to understand is that those factory farms externalize a lot of their costs.
00:32:22.000So there's collateral damage, that collateral damage in terms of water pollution, fecal particulate in the air.
00:32:31.000One of the biggest ones right now is C. diff and MRSA, you know, these antibiotic-resistant high-pass staph infections in hospitals that people are getting.
00:32:47.000And now, of course, we're seeing an exponential growth in autism.
00:32:53.000There's a link there to, for example, genetically modified organisms.
00:34:09.000I mean, there's a huge difference in this food.
00:34:13.000Vegetables the same way, whether they're grown in mineral-dense, biologically active soil compared to hydroponic or just what we call IV soil, where the soil is just inert material to hold up a root,
00:34:29.000and we basically IV chemical fertilizers into that soil to grow a plant.
00:35:28.000All of that collateral damage is deferred expense.
00:35:33.000Whether it's obesity, health care, pollution cleanup, Superfund sites, soil loss, aquifer depletion, desertification,
00:35:50.000these are all deferred damages because in our country we don't have an accounting system to measure Our only accounting system is cash, gross domestic product, today's output.
00:36:06.000We don't have a way to measure these other elements.
00:36:58.000And yet, fundamentally, the mycorrhizae, the earthworms, the azobacter bacteria, the mycelium, the hydra, they actually, this invisible community of beings, Actually supports all of life,
00:37:28.000And now we know they talk to each other.
00:37:31.000So, in a sense, what we're getting with factory farming is one small unit in the environment extracting money at the expense of Of all these other factors and these extraneous costs...
00:37:56.000So if it was done correctly, if it was all done your way, although it would be more expensive, those external expenses wouldn't exist.
00:38:07.000In the big scheme of things, the actual...
00:38:13.000The actual cost of food would actually be cheaper because you wouldn't have the collateral damage.
00:38:20.000I mean, just take one example in our lifetime, mad cow disease.
00:38:25.000I mean, realize for 30 years, the European and the American expert credential, you know, PhD academic community took farmers like me to free steak dinners to teach us this new scientific method of feeding dead cows to cows.
00:38:44.000And our farm was branded barbarian, Luddite, anti-progressive, you know, science haters because we didn't buy into that model.
00:38:56.000The reason we didn't buy into it was not because we were anti-science or anti-innovation or anything like that.
00:39:01.000It's because I looked around the earth and, you know, I couldn't find an herbivore that eats carrion.
00:39:08.000And so we said, well, there must be a reason.
00:39:13.000And here, 30 years later, suddenly there's this big global collective, oops, maybe we shouldn't oughta done that!
00:39:21.000You know, as the whole scientific community realized, you know, what had happened.
00:39:26.000And so I just think that we have to appreciate that we are, in Western culture, you know, we're a product of, you know, Greco-Roman, Western reductionist, compartmentalized, fragmentized, systematized, individualized,
00:39:47.000And there's an equally appropriate mindset from the East, which is we're all connected, we're all relatives, it's about wholes, it's about us, not just me.
00:39:57.000And that brings us an ethical framework as a protection over amoral innovation.
00:40:08.000You know, we're so clever, we can innovate things that we can't spiritually, morally, ethically, or physically metabolize.
00:40:17.000And so what happens is we innovate these things and then spend two generations trying to remediate the collateral damage that our innovations did.
00:40:28.000And if we would just embrace that there should be a moral, ethical, natural pattern...
00:40:38.000That restricts, that constrains our innovation, then our innovation could actually be kept on an earth massaging track instead of an earth conquistador track.
00:40:51.000So you used to literally get courted to feed dead cows to cows?
00:41:38.000Well, the industry still feeds, you know, chicken manure.
00:41:41.000I mean, well, we're still feeding in this country right now as we sit here, we're still feeding chicken feathers, manure, and chicken carcasses to chicken.
00:41:48.000They're doing it, you know, right in our neighborhood.
00:42:09.000So you have a little bit of wiggle room for the rogue prions that create the bovine spongiform encephalopathy.
00:42:16.000And that's the same disease that these cows get and mad cow disease that cannibals get, like in New Guinea, these neurological diseases where they can't move right and start shaking.
00:43:31.000You know, when everything was draft power, you know, mules and horses and oxen, you simply couldn't amalgamate that many things.
00:43:39.000Whether it was animals or shoes or metal, you couldn't amalgamate that much material in that In one place.
00:43:51.000So every manufacturing facility, whether it was a farm or other manufacturing, had to nest within the carrying capacity of its ecological womb, if you will.
00:44:46.000And then finally, in order to keep that many animals alive in one spot, required antibiotics.
00:44:52.000Because the fecal particulate, the The fecal dust cloud, you know, that they live in, that they ingest, is very abrasive to the very tender mucous respiratory membranes.
00:45:05.000All the cilia and those very, you know, you look at them under a microscope and it's like going into a Steven Spielberg set, you know, it's just amazing.
00:45:16.000Well, those very tender mucous membranes It gets sandpapered by this fecal particulate, this abrasive air, and they bleed then.
00:45:29.000And this is how salmonella and some of these things get into the actual tissue, even into the eggs.
00:45:38.000Remember the Wisconsin farm with the salmonella?
00:45:41.000It actually gets into the oviduct because now the body's toxic tissue It's filters, it's strainers, have been overridden by this direct hemorrhaging of the tender mucous membranes that gets right into the bloodstream.
00:46:02.000So that's how it jumps those regular strainers.
00:46:10.000And so the antibiotics were necessary to try to, in order to keep the animals in such an unsterile, unhealthy environment, to keep them alive.
00:46:22.000I don't know whether you've watched just lately what's happened with pigs.
00:46:27.000It's been all over the newspapers and Wall Street Journal even.
00:46:31.000When you see pig futures hit Wall Street Journal, you know something's going on.
00:46:35.000And I think it was in January and part of February, they almost doubled.
00:47:25.000Of course, finding a cure would mean changing their model.
00:47:29.000But of course, they're They're trying to find a technological cure, you know, some more potent concoction, all right, to knock this out in such an unhealthy environment.
00:47:57.000This environment that you're talking about, this pathogen-rich environment where the fetal particulates in the air, completely not natural.
00:48:06.000In nature, they're in wide open fields and the air and the natural environment filters all this.
00:48:13.000This is something that's completely been over the last, you know, less than 100 years.
00:48:20.000It's only in the last You know, 50 to 60 years.
00:48:23.000Our rule of thumb is that good food production, good farming, good food production should be aesthetically and aromatically sensually romantic.
00:48:36.000You know, I mean, look, if you've got to walk through sheep dip and put on a hazmat suit to go visit your food, you might not want to eat it.
00:49:13.000My heart goes out to farmers who have signed on the dotted line and been kind of taken in by this model.
00:49:23.000But the fact is they are so anti-nature that I don't see a retrofit.
00:49:34.000And that's one of the problems when you have capital-intensive infrastructure.
00:49:38.000When you have single-designed or single-use capital-intensive infrastructure, even when it becomes a detriment to society to have that infrastructure, we still have to use it because we're economically and emotionally vested in it.
00:50:48.000Well, I mean, just to give you an example of some things that can be done with a different model, one is, just to give you an example, one is that if you go to a composting bedding, In an operation,
00:51:05.000you can ameliorate a lot of the problems.
00:51:09.000The problem is that that takes a lot of carbon.
00:51:13.000In order to have compost, you have to have a carbon-nitrogen ratio that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 to 35 to 1. All right?
00:52:07.000Well, the problem is that in most factory farming facilities, not only can you not even have any bedding in there, the animals are on slatted floors or virtually concrete.
00:52:26.000There is no life, there is no community of beings, good community of beings.
00:52:34.000In nature, a lot of people don't realize there are a lot more good bacteria than bad bacteria.
00:52:40.000There really aren't that many bad bacteria.
00:52:42.000In nature, if you're keeping score of things, there are actually a lot more good ones than bad ones when you come to this invisible world of little microbial beings.
00:52:54.000And so the default position of nature is health.
00:53:03.000We, in our culture right now, we've got things so out of whack that we just assume that the default position of nature is sickness.
00:53:12.000You know, that nature's broken and I've got to fix it.
00:53:22.000Then that indicates something out of whack.
00:53:25.000There's a protocol that's been violated.
00:53:29.000So, one of the ways to house animals, at least temporarily, in shelter is to have a living blanket.
00:53:44.000I call it a carbonaceous diaper for them to live on that is deep enough and alive enough with all these microbes so that nematodes attack the pathogenic microbes so that in this sphere there's enough community of beings interacting in this war of good bugs and bad bugs.
00:56:06.000There's a lot of people that don't realize that what we're dealing with when you're talking about a lot of the flus and a lot of the diseases that become pandemics that they start with livestock.
00:56:17.000Avian flu, swine flu, some of the most horrific flus that we've experienced in the past hundred years have come as a direct result of this type of farming.
00:56:28.000The concentration of The total unnatural concentration and buildup of toxicity in these places is incredible.
00:56:42.000And so what happens is that the industry uses concoctions from something as benign as chlorine all the way to stiffer stuff to try to sanitize, clean, wash down, all that stuff.
00:56:57.000But all that does is open the door For the survivors, and every time a new concoction is developed, there are survivors.
00:57:11.000And the survivors become more and more virulent so that, for example, when the industry says, oh, look, E. coli, it's been around forever, you know, get over it.
00:57:24.000Well, that's true, but not the virulent strains that we're developing by feeding the Unnatural feeds and the drugs.
00:57:36.000And so where those would normally be fairly benign in our highly acidic digestive system, they become more virulent and they survive in us instead of us killing them.
00:57:51.000I mean, you know, take Arkansas now where their farmers are now budgeting $70 per acre To hand machete superweeds that have morphed as a result of glyphosate,
00:58:10.000Roundup, because of genetically modified organism, corn and soybeans being planted, it's created these survivor superweeds.
00:58:20.000Because whenever we try to sterilize or sanitize, there are survivors.
00:58:29.000And those survivors become tougher and tougher and tougher.
00:58:36.000As a human race, we are just a bunch of silly dummies.
00:58:39.000There's an issue that is a big one with antibiotic soaps.
00:58:45.000A lot of people think it's real smart to wash with antibiotic soaps, but what they don't realize is that antibiotic soaps kill all the good flora on your skin as well.
00:58:54.000And it seems like that's really similar to what's going on here.
00:59:09.000And there's nothing unnatural about it.
00:59:11.000In other words, you don't get virulent survivors.
00:59:14.000They're all on the equal creation playing field, if you will.
00:59:20.000And our responsibility then is simply to create a habitat That allows this battlefield to play out in its natural setting.
00:59:32.000Natural setting is the key because there is sort of a give and take, a place, a jigsaw puzzle piece place for all the various elements of a farm, of an ecosystem.
00:59:44.000And that's what you're addressing when you're...
00:59:46.000That's what I found so incredibly fascinating about the idea of continuing to move these animals.
00:59:51.000And you have these very low voltage electric fences that are just enough so they go, oh, I don't want to go near there.
00:59:57.000No one's getting hurt, but they're like...
00:59:58.000No, it's called a psychological barrier.
01:00:02.000It's essentially a car battery you use, right?
01:00:04.000Well, it's a car battery powering an energizer.
01:00:23.000I mean, there's no energy, but there's a lot of pressure.
01:00:28.000And so these systems, again, these are computer microchip systems.
01:00:33.000So I think as we've talked about how did the factory farm develop, I think perhaps rather than continue, you can go wherever you want to with the questions, but I would like to point out To folks that as bad as that is and depressing and yeah,
01:00:53.000we're a bunch of dummies and all that, my goodness, we have now innovated the most amazing infrastructure to be able for the first time in human history to caress our earth nest,
01:01:11.000our lover if you will, more strategically than And purposefully than we have ever been able to do it before.
01:01:55.000We can make them comfortable Not with stationary barns and, you know, big post and beam, you know, you have to cut down the whole forest to do this, but now with bandsaw technology, instead of, you know,
01:02:10.000the big old circular saws that removed a quarter of an inch per cut, now with a little Honda engine, you know, that just sips fuel and a one-tenth of an inch thick We can now mill tinker toy-like lath structure material to build very lightweight portable barns,
01:02:41.000We have all these portable infrastructures for turkeys, chickens, cows, pigs, so that we can move a shade tree or a barn and Protective shelter with the animals, with a four-wheeler,
01:04:19.000You know, it's related to dopamine and stuff, but it's a calmer.
01:04:26.000I travel so much now that in such an unnatural environment, you know, I was starting a couple years ago, I was starting into a kind of a fight or flight subconscious, fight or flight thing where I would get, I couldn't breathe, you know, on an airplane and stuff because it was, and, you know,
01:04:43.000And I went to a quack, an alternative medical practitioner, that uses the kind of machines they use in Europe.
01:04:52.000When you go in the emergency room in Europe and you grab two probes and a little needle tells you everything that's wrong with you, it costs like pennies.
01:05:01.000That's how they can get along with government health care because they actually are smart about it.
01:05:05.000One of these probes you hold on with your hands and they tell you what's wrong with you?
01:06:06.000Well, I had one malfunctioning valve that was letting, as the bladder filled up with pressure, it was the balloon was pushing the urine back up into the kidney.
01:08:05.000And then somehow or another, because we've made milk so toxic because of these environments that you're describing, that you...
01:08:13.000When you drink raw milk on a normal farm like your farm where the cows are very healthy, you could drink that raw milk and it's actually easily digested.
01:08:23.000Your body digests it far more easy and a lot of people that are even lactose intolerant don't have a problem with the raw milk.
01:08:30.000And the milk from an industrial farm is toxic.
01:08:33.000I mean, it does have a lot of problems.
01:08:35.000A lot of people don't realize that the Mayo Clinic was built.
01:08:39.000I mean, it started back during the early time of the century when cows were eating brewery waste, distiller's grains, because they were without refrigeration.
01:08:53.000They put the breweries and the cows together.
01:08:56.000And in these urban sectors, they didn't understand bacteria and hygiene and sanitation and all that stuff.
01:09:01.000So the cows got brucellosis and all these things, passed it on to people.
01:09:06.000And Mayo Clinic started putting cows back on pasture and feeding raw milk to their patients during the time when people were getting sick from urban, industrial, swill-fed cow milk.
01:09:22.000And that's how Mayo Clinic actually started.
01:10:29.000Put a butt on TV and people will watch.
01:10:31.000So, the point is, though, that people are so paranoid of food and ignorant about food that they fear food today.
01:10:39.000I mean, we have customers call us up...
01:10:42.000If I thaw a chicken in a sink, will it get salmonella?
01:10:45.000I mean, there's a profound ignorance in our culture regarding food because we're disconnected from it.
01:10:53.000And so afraid people ask for security from the government.
01:10:57.000Well, the government says, well, let's see, what should be our protocols?
01:11:01.000They go to the industry for the answers and concoct an orthodoxy.
01:11:07.000That actually shuts out the antidote for the very problems they're trying to solve.
01:11:11.000The idea that the government would have any solutions whatsoever to that is pretty ridiculous in the first place, because who would be the person that would be an expert on this?
01:11:20.000Would it be the industry that creates a lot of these problems?
01:11:24.000What we need is a guy like you working for the government.
01:11:29.000If I got chosen to work for the government, whatever agency I was in charge of, I'd shut it down before Sunday.
01:11:38.000What would you do if, like, let's say there's some catastrophic failure of our government and they just decide to quit, and everybody just decides to go under, and we need to figure out how to regulate farms.
01:11:55.000I mean, you're suggesting that the factory farms, there's no retrofit, they should be destroyed, and you're better off building miniature golf courses over them.
01:12:05.000How would we be able to distribute food to a nation of hungry people?
01:12:10.000Is it possible to use your methods, the methods you use, and how big is your farm in Virginia?
01:12:15.000Well, we own 550 acres, and we lease another nine farms, so we're running 2,000 acres.
01:12:39.000In fact, the thing that's important to realize when you look at a factory farm, when the industry shows this picture of this big chicken house or this big pig factory or cow feed lot or a square mile of Strawberries in California.
01:12:58.000What you have to understand is those systems are not stand-alone islands.
01:13:03.000When they say, look at the efficiency, the small footprint, what they're not showing you are the square miles of subsidized grain or petroleum inputs, the land area that all that takes is To sustain that little footprint and then the land that it takes to assimilate all of the waste stream from that.
01:13:27.000So our system doesn't take one more square yard of production than the factory system.
01:13:39.000The fact that we're Doing, you know, stackable synergistic symbiotic multi-speciated enterprises, it's more productive.
01:13:49.000But when you look at what we're producing, even though, you know, at first glance, the uneducated might say, well, it takes a lot more land to produce them this way.
01:14:24.000So in total, all we're doing is taking all the people that are currently trying to triage the collateral damage of cheap food.
01:14:37.000We're taking all those people and growing the food.
01:14:43.000And all those jobs are coming back to the farm instead of being in...
01:14:50.000In whatever costly remedial programs they are.
01:14:56.000So you are essentially a standalone system, whereas when you're seeing a factory farm, there's a lot of stuff you're not seeing that's required to make that thing run.
01:15:14.000The whole idea is to create a carbon centricity so that we're not shipping this stuff all over the place.
01:15:23.000And when people say, oh, but a locality can't produce it.
01:15:26.000Cornell did a fascinating study several years ago of New York.
01:15:30.000They took every metropolitan city, Ithaca, Syracuse, Buffalo, Albany, New York City, and they took all the cities of New York and said, Could we produce the calories for these urban sectors?
01:15:46.000And what they found was that every urban sector could produce all of its calories within 30 miles.
01:15:54.000So even in New York, it could be stand-alone self-sufficient, except for New York City, which if they went into New Jersey, it became self-sufficient as well, because New York's right on the edge of the state.
01:16:08.000And so a fundamentally integrated system rather than a segregated system becomes far more efficient.
01:16:17.000In the scheme of things, it becomes far more efficient than a segregated system with all this long-distance transportation.
01:16:24.000Because the ships are passing in the night.
01:16:49.000If you want to eat berries and apples and things, that has to be imported from somewhere else because the whole state's in corn and soybeans.
01:16:57.000This genetically modified thing is a real hot topic.
01:17:19.000It's fundamentally overrunning a lot of natural barriers that are there in place to protect happening what is happening, which is a mishmash of genetic material.
01:17:39.000So you have a salmon that's partly a pepper plant, partly a tropical herb, and partly Pig!
01:18:13.000Our internal bacteria, we've got three trillion beings in our insides, and they're not capable of mutating and assimilating material as fast as our human brains can adulterate the food system.
01:18:33.000And so what happens is we're sending down there a bunch of foreign material.
01:20:00.000Not only that, but probably the world expert on this is Jeffrey Smith, who wrote Seeds of Deception and is the premier world GMO expert.
01:20:10.000He points out that when Monsanto was doing feeding trials for FDA on, for example, GMO potatoes, they chose for the feeding trial geriatric rats.
01:20:24.000Well, geriatric rats are already completely formed.
01:20:27.000You're not going to see any big changes in those.
01:20:29.000In Scotland, when the scientists there duplicated those studies with juvenile rats...
01:20:38.000Same feeding trials, same potatoes, same everything.
01:22:28.000What we need is a food emancipation proclamation.
01:22:33.000We need a food emancipation proclamation to free the food system from the enslavement of bureaucratic orthodoxy.
01:22:42.000So that consenting adults, and I'm choosing my words very carefully here, so that consenting adults could make a voluntary choice of food choice, the type that they want, From the source that they want.
01:22:59.000And if we allowed however many in our society, 5%, 10%, 20%, whoever wanted to opt out of government-sanctioned orthodoxy and say,
01:23:16.000hmm, is there something better out here?
01:23:35.000We're talking about the right of private contract.
01:23:38.000If I want to come to your farm voluntarily, no extortion here, voluntarily, look around, smell around, ask around, and I want what you're producing...
01:24:02.000Because a government that can tell you you can't smoke dope can also tell you you can't drink raw milk or refuse to vaccinate your children or go down the line.
01:24:16.000That the orthodoxy is so convoluted now that it's perfectly safe and fine to feed your kids Coca-Cola, Mountain Dew, Count Chocula, Cheerios, and Pop-Tarts, but not homemade charcuterie,
01:24:34.000pickles, raw milk, And backyard butchered chickens.
01:25:08.000And if we would free up those of us in the system that are ready to access our neighbors with quiche and noodles and charcuterie and, you know, name it, to free us up,
01:25:25.000it would completely invert the entire food system in a year.
01:25:33.000The entire food system as you speak of like when you're talking about the genetically modified organisms and you're talking about these companies that provide them like Monsanto there's a backlash against that now because of the information that's been released about the detrimental effects of them and you're seeing like in Brazil they won lawsuits the farmers won massive lawsuits against Monsanto and these Or various GMO products that they've created.
01:26:00.000Say, you're talking about Iowa and the fertility of the land in Iowa.
01:26:09.000Could all these farms that are set up to just specifically grow grains, and a lot of them grains that are specifically grown, just to feed livestock?
01:29:01.000Because, you know, we don't vaccinate, we don't medicate, and we don't, you know, we don't do all the orthodoxy that the industry says you're supposed to do.
01:29:22.000How does he get product liability insurance?
01:29:24.000The insurance company says, well, we won't underwrite you unless you use best agricultural practices.
01:29:31.000Well, the insurance company doesn't know anything about agriculture.
01:29:33.000Where are they going to find out about what's best agricultural practices?
01:29:36.000They ring up the land-grant university, which is the lackey of the industry, and they say, well, you need this protocol of vaccinations, this protocol of medications, this protocol of chlorine, this protocol of fuming.
01:29:49.000And if the farm doesn't do that, it's high-risk.
01:29:53.000And so right now, a lot of farmers like us are unable to get Insurance, because the underwriters won't insure risky farming, which goes against the orthodoxy of the system.
01:30:09.000Because the insurance executives play golf with the industrial ag executives, play golf with the bureaucracy executives.
01:30:27.000And it's incredibly frustrating because you're so transparent about your process and the benefits of your process.
01:30:34.000When you're sitting out there in one of the videos that I watched, you're sitting out there with these pigs These pigs are just hanging out.
01:30:42.000They come up to you like the pig got under your arm and you put your arm on him.
01:30:51.000Anybody that wouldn't see the benefits of that, you have to be either, you have to have a financial vested interest in not seeing it, or you have to be insane.
01:32:48.000That's one of the interesting things about pigs is this huge problem with feral, what we call feral hogs, because they're not a native species to North America, and they don't really have any natural predators.
01:33:00.000I mean other than you know coyotes which have sort of taken them on and mountain lions and all the other animals that we have in North America but The number one invasive species problem we have as far as, like, big animals is pigs.
01:33:12.000Well, there again, there again, the problem, it's a political problem.
01:33:27.000They allow, you know, wild shot animals, deer and pigs, To go into commerce.
01:33:35.000I think the worry about that though is from a sportsman's point of view that you're going to have people out there sniping and poaching deer and all the really precious wild animals and selling them to restaurants and there won't be any there for hunters.
01:33:52.000The thing is nature has a way of balancing it out and when there's an overpopulation they're easy to get and then once they get harder to get Then people get discouraged from hunting because they're too hard to get.
01:34:06.000I would be more in support of that for pigs than the other animals simply because pigs breed all year round.
01:34:12.000They'll have several litters a year of many, whereas a deer will have one fawn.
01:34:17.000You know, and they'll have a fawn or two, and they'll have them once a year.
01:34:21.000Yeah, well, maybe you could control it with licenses.
01:34:23.000Just give people, you know, you can harvest so many a year or whatever.
01:34:27.000I mean, there's a lot of ways to skin the cat.
01:34:30.000The bottom line I'm getting to, though, is that when you prohibit a food source from entering commerce, you automatically have the government...
01:34:44.000Manipulating a supply and demand situation.
01:34:53.000And so, you know, the people that are concerned about, and you go down to some areas, I mean, yeah, the wild pig problem is a real, it's a real land abuse problem.
01:35:03.000Well, they're having them in suburban San Jose.
01:35:06.000San Jose, people are having their lawns chewed up.
01:35:09.000There was a big news story about it the other day where they showed these pigs running across people's lawns in this normal suburban street.
01:35:27.000So if we would allow people to actually practice consenting adult voluntary commerce on some of these things, it would then incentivize innovation,
01:35:43.000entrepreneurship, and the antidote We're good to go.
01:36:06.000And in order to do it, they're going to have to greatly drop the bird size in their houses.
01:36:12.000And I know that there's a lot of research going into building these living compost bedding situations in these houses.
01:38:22.000The edges of the field are the stringers of the ladder.
01:38:28.000And the portable fences are the rungs.
01:38:32.000So the permanents are there all the time, and we simply move the rungs, you know, contract or expand the rungs based on how much grass there is, how many there are in the herd, that sort of thing.
01:38:44.000So it's a very artistic, you know, there's a science, but there's also an art to it.
01:38:49.000As we essentially give them one plateful a day.
01:38:54.000And you alternate animals in these areas.
01:38:57.000Yeah, so the cows go through first, then the egg mobiles come in after them.
01:39:01.000So after the cows are there, then you push the chicken house in there, you fence that in as well.
01:40:16.000Is your design, you just figured out how to stack them in there in this sort of way?
01:40:20.000Well, essentially, it's a chicken house on wheels, is what it is.
01:40:26.000And so, you know, where you would normally make a chicken house, for example, yeah, there you go, where you normally make a chicken house stationary, this is simply mounted on wheels, on an axle, like a trailer.
01:40:39.000And you just hooked up to it with a tractor.
01:44:02.000We've always gotten them from a hatchery.
01:44:04.000But what we've seen, you'd find this fascinating, I'm sure.
01:44:08.000What we've seen is, in my lifetime, and I'm not that old, but I have watched the genetic viability of animals, of domestic livestock, drop.
01:44:20.000Because of the props, the crutches that we use, antibiotics, hot feed, candy bar, I call it candy bar diets, and unnatural feeding regimens.
01:44:33.000And so we have really seen the strength, just the viability of these farm animals plummet.
01:44:46.000So our son, Daniel, when he was eight, started with rabbits.
01:44:51.000These are meat rabbits, not pet rabbits, but they're meat rabbits.
01:44:54.000Some friends had a couple does and a buck, and they couldn't take them to a new apartment where they were moving, so they said, you know, would you like these rabbits?
01:45:02.000Well, he was eight years old is about the time to start an entrepreneur business, you know?
01:45:07.000And so he said, I mean, I started with chickens when I was 10, so I was two years late, but he started with rabbits when he was 8. And so he said, yeah, I'll tell you, I wanted to raise some rabbits.
01:45:18.000And if you read any rabbit-rearing book, it'll say, never give them grass.
01:45:23.000Don't give them that because they'll get diarrhea and die.
01:45:26.000And of course, that's exactly what we found.
01:45:29.000But what he did, he did what's called line breeding, which is kind of a wild breeding.
01:45:34.000And it took him five years to work through a lot of mortality and culling.
01:45:40.000But in five years, the rabbit started really getting strong, vibrant, big litters, healthy.
01:45:47.000Now, 24 years later, they're almost bulletproof.
01:45:52.000And what we've seen in the genetic selection process over that time of not using any crutches and just letting it be kind of a Darwinian selection process has made us now want to...
01:46:11.000We want to duplicate that with our other animals.
01:46:14.000And so we started last year with our chickens taking our oldest, what we call survivor genetics, the oldest hens that are still laying, mating them to the roosters.
01:46:23.000And what we want to do is just keep taking the oldest hens, mating them to the roosters, So we eventually create a survivor genetic.
01:46:33.000In other words, that's the chicken that knew to hide when the hawk came.
01:46:37.000That's the chicken that knew to get under shelter when the rain came.
01:46:40.000That's the chicken that didn't get flu, that didn't get bug, that didn't have a prolapse the first egg she did.
01:46:56.000And we're very excited about what this kind of wild line breeding type of thing can do if you knock out all the crutches.
01:47:09.000The problem is that it puts you crossways of the animal welfare crowd because they can't abide the idea that if I have a sick animal, I'm just going to let it die.
01:47:20.000Oh, you know, I mean, they've been bambi-ited and thumper-ited to death to where, you know, every dog and cat has to have a monogrammed L.L. Bean cushion in an air-conditioned ante-room.
01:47:33.000And that's the only way to care for animals.
01:47:36.000And the problem is that we don't, we're not going to get genetic strength if we don't let nature cull out the weaklings.
01:47:44.000You know, and so we wouldn't have the vibrant rabbits that Daniel has if we had started at the beginning, oh, let's prop these up with antibiotics so the weak ones can survive.
01:47:56.000If everybody walks into the room wearing crutches, You don't know who can stand on their own two feet.
01:48:15.000But these are animals, and this is the natural world, and this is why animals survive.
01:48:20.000And if you don't do that, they won't survive.
01:48:23.000Then you will have the weak ones breed, and they'll develop all sorts of huge issues.
01:48:27.000Which could be argued, essentially, that that's happening with people, but people have a lot of other things to offer.
01:48:32.000Our innovation, our creativity, and our ability to communicate, and our thinking are what makes us uniquely human.
01:48:39.000The animals, it's simply their body, their life, their existence, and the way they interact with nature.
01:48:47.000When you tamper with that, you're essentially pretending you're smarter than nature itself, and that's ridiculous.
01:48:56.000We can show real clearly by what you've said today about factory farming, about the development of these diseases, that we're not smarter than nature.
01:49:16.000We need a lot of other thoughts on this.
01:49:19.000When you start applying the same sort of compassion and That we rightly do to human beings, you start applying them to animals, you actually wind up screwing the animals over.
01:49:31.000Yeah, and you create artificial fragility.
01:49:36.000Sir Albert Howard, who, of course, developed the scientific aerobic composting process, which his book is still kind of the icon of the whole sustainable agriculture community.
01:49:46.000It was written in 1943, an agricultural testament.
01:49:50.000He says in there that when you use artificial manures in the soil, and that's what he called chemical fertilizers, artificial manures, it grows artificial plants, which make artificial animals Which then make artificial people who can only stay alive using artificials.
01:50:22.000We were just, I mean, that was 1943. We were just really beginning to start using chemical fertilizers at that point.
01:50:30.000Now, when they have the issue with large-scale agriculture, when they chew up all the minerals in the ground and they have to add minerals when they go over the topsoil of American farmlands, I mean, there was a paper that was written about it, I can't remember the year,
01:50:45.000but it was a long time ago, I believe it was in the 1940s, about the mineral deficiencies of topsoil.
01:51:12.000It doesn't need a bunch of stuff brought in.
01:51:15.000And the way nature remedies it is with an active decomposition cycle.
01:51:19.000The way it works is when organic matter decomposes in the soil, It gives off, it exudes carbon dioxide.
01:51:27.000When things rot, they give off carbon dioxide.
01:51:31.000And so that carbon dioxide, as it percolates up through the pores in the soil, the aggregates in the soil, if you look at the soil in an electron microscope, it really looks like a marsh.
01:51:44.000There's all these little You know, cavities and aggregates and moisture and all these, you know, slogging, weird-looking, you know, bugs and cow-looking things and, you know, predators and herbivores.
01:51:58.000There are more living beings in a double handful of healthy soil than there are people on the face of the earth.
01:53:06.000So nature, you know, so creation has this wonderful ability.
01:53:11.000If there is carbon decomposing in the soil and moisture, that creates a carbonic acid to break out the minerals that are in the parent rock material in the soil.
01:53:27.000If I went outside the studio here and picked up a rock and brought it in and said...
01:53:33.000Is that rock, does it contain the same minerals?
01:53:36.000I mean, is it the same thing as it was 2,000 years ago?
01:53:47.000And so we have plenty of parent mineral out here.
01:53:53.000The problem is we don't have an active decomposition cycle.
01:53:58.000How do you destroy a decomposition cycle?
01:54:04.000You do it when you don't have a carbon-centric system.
01:54:12.000And everything about modern farming is trying to get rid of carbon.
01:54:18.000This is one of the things that we're looking at, maybe if you've read the book, Wheat Belly.
01:54:25.000What about gluten and those sorts of things is that it used to be when our grandpappies were planting wheat, wheat would grow six feet tall.
01:56:34.000And when I started reading about it, I read that when wheat had been changed, to change the size of it, to make it more hearty, it also became more difficult to digest.
01:58:03.000You know, mills and flour mills and stuff.
01:58:06.000And so, you know, when we buy 25 pounds a week of flour at a time, and you can absolutely get it as bulk, and you can use this gadgetry and grind it up and bake your own bread in a computerized bread maker.
01:58:52.000I'm sure you're familiar with the movie Food, Inc.
01:58:55.000And of course, it's a powerful movie, very profound.
01:58:59.000But there's a real weakness in that movie where that family that goes to Burger King and they buy a Whopper or whatever they get and they buy, it looks like a 200-ounce soft drink, but whatever it is, it's a big one.
02:01:24.000You cannot have an integrity economic sector of anything that When you so profoundly abdicate personal participation in that economic sector.
02:01:35.000But it is more expensive when you go to a supermarket and you buy organic vegetables.
02:02:31.000But that's where all the food was 80 years ago.
02:02:33.000If I came to L.A. and said, where's the food in L.A.? It's not in a warehouse.
02:02:38.000It would be in individual larders in houses.
02:02:41.000And so when you buy in bulk and you buy unprocessed and you put your sweat equity into the Preparing, processing, preserving, and packaging.
02:02:57.000Then you can actually save money over the processed counterpart.
02:05:33.000Is it possible with your methods and the way that you're describing farming and what you've done with your farm, is it possible to feed this entire country that way?
02:05:44.000Not only is it possible, it's actually the only regenerative way to do it.
02:05:50.000Because when you break apart the feed from the animal from the manure...
02:05:58.000And we can even include people in that as well.
02:06:00.000When you break all those that are supposed to be synergistic blessings, when you break them apart, the whole thing floats on a counterfeit.
02:06:20.000And a fragile house of cards that depends on clever pharmaceuticals staying one mutation ahead of the mutating bugs to function.
02:06:34.000So the argument against what you're prescribing and describing is that what you have is...
02:06:41.000Sort of a beautiful, small business model for creating a very ethical farm and raising animals in a very nice way.
02:06:53.000But it's impractical when you're talking about feeding a nation of 300 million people.
02:06:57.000But you're saying that Not just the fact that you factor in when you farm your way the lack of sort of invisible costs that you get with factory farming, the lack of all the other factors that you have to bring in like chemicals and antibiotics and all these different things that are just unnecessary completely,
02:07:41.000We run pigs in the woods, and they eat acorns and bugs and weeds and things like that through the woods.
02:07:49.000And they actually eat the bugs that would attack the trees in the woods, so the trees are healthier.
02:07:54.000The fact is that we have millions and millions of acres of unused land.
02:08:03.000There's not one reason for a single confinement hog facility in the entire country.
02:08:10.000If we used our national forests, our Bureau of Land Management, Pinyon pine in Colorado, if we used mesquite in Texas, you know, Appalachian hardwoods in the Mid-Atlantic and South.
02:08:28.000Every place has millions of acres where these pigs could be run.
02:08:56.000So the factory farm system that we have, the amount of food that they produce, in order to produce that same amount of food, we would have to use more land.
02:09:05.000We would have to use more areas that we're not using now.
02:09:27.000If you're talking about national forests, and you're talking about a private company that grows agriculture or grows farm animals in these natural forests, who would be able to decide who gets to use their animals in this...
02:10:04.000I said, well, Governor, let's have a meeting next week at the Governor's Mansion and iron out a lease arrangement where Polyface can run pigs in the state forests and keep all the trees from dying.
02:10:52.000So they could be disturbed by these pigs.
02:10:54.000And so his understanding of ecology...
02:11:03.000Absolutely mandated that he get his head around this idea.
02:11:08.000But, of course, he grinned and laughed, and we both realized, I mean, can you imagine what the radical environmental groups would do if you said we're going to start leasing some of the state parks so people can grow pigs in them?
02:11:25.000Well, let's just forget about their arguments against environmental groups or PETA or anybody who might have an argument against it.
02:11:31.000If you had a clean slate and if it was your job, you could design the whole agricultural system of this country to feed America based on your principles.
02:12:23.000Productive areas that are now inhospitable to life.
02:12:31.000They are a direct result of overrunning our nest's ability to handle our mechanistic creativity.
02:12:48.000The fact is that in North Carolina, which leads the state in hog production, if you didn't have a hurricane every two years to flush all the manure lagoons out to the ocean, Well, I think.
02:13:26.000Let's talk to the displaced shrimp fishermen in the Gulf of Mexico and talk about displacement.
02:13:35.000When we start talking about the whole land use issue, our system actually...
02:13:47.000Would eliminate all of this dead zone, all of this inhospitable, the desertification, all the collateral damage.
02:13:56.000We would actually have far more productive land than we do today because we're toxifying a very small part and that toxic stream is killing people A bunch of other land.
02:14:19.000Why don't we just be honest and say, let's use it all in a healing fashion And we won't have any dead zones, and it'll all be progressively healing.
02:14:30.000That sounds like a better alternative to me.
02:14:32.000So the only way to have these healthy environments, these healthy growing environments, is to have sort of a symbiotic relationship with all the various different types of animals and the various different types of plants.
02:14:43.000Is it possible to have acres and acres of things like corn and wheat?
02:14:52.000I mean, can you grow a thousand, you know, acres of corn in a healthy way without having animals in that environment?
02:15:05.000Probably the short answer is no, but...
02:15:09.000But that doesn't mean you can't grow grain.
02:15:13.000In Australia, Colin Cease there, who has vented a term called pasture cropping, has developed infrastructure and protocols for where you grow grain in perennial pasture without much tillage.
02:15:34.000You don't till the vegetative blanket Of the soil.
02:15:38.000Instead, you use livestock as a pruder to prepare and even temporarily weaken the perennial grass, plant right into it the annuals, you know,
02:15:53.000barley, wheat, rye, whatever, and it grows, beats out the grass.
02:15:57.000The grass stays subordinated in the shadow so that when the grain dries down, you harvest the grain and you've already got a nice You know, regrowth of green material underneath without ever actually destroying the sod.
02:16:14.000And there are now 2,000 farmers in Australia doing this.
02:16:18.000It's jumping now to the U.S. It's a real hot technology.
02:19:12.000What we do instead is we send our kitchen waste down the disposal or out in the garbage.
02:19:19.000It goes to the landfill and the whole ecosystem is deprived of the biomass that's supposed to compost or digest and feed the next cycle of life.
02:19:32.000The problem is it's really tough to keep two chickens in an apartment.
02:19:36.000They don't take any more room than an aquarium or a gerbil.
02:20:26.000Anyway, that becomes your fertilizer for your house.
02:20:33.000And what you do then is you turn your house, instead of an ecological liability, your house becomes an integrated part of the Well, it seems that in that sense that giant cities like New York where people are stacked on top of each other,
02:20:50.000they essentially are factory farming humans.
02:20:55.000But there are a lot of these cool ways now that we can do that.
02:21:01.000Anyway, if you take the pig and the chicken and you use them as their salvage operation, then you cut even more grain So you take off the herbivore grain, you take off the chicken grain and the pig grain, suddenly you don't have much grain use.
02:21:18.000And when you don't need very much grain, you don't have to plow very much, you don't have to plow very much, then you can go back to a perennially based system and you can go back to the historic rotations where several years of perennials built the fertility for the one or two years of annual extraction.
02:21:56.000A lot of what we have here is sort of the momentum of the past that we have to deal with.
02:22:04.000The momentum of this factory farm establishment that was set up, that's been providing us with food for decades upon decades, almost a century now.
02:22:12.000Yeah, and you have to understand, in context, don't be too hard on the ancestors, because what happened was it got easier to grow grain and feed it.
02:22:27.000That came earlier than electric fence and scientific composting systems.
02:22:35.000So it was the electric fence that allowed us to suddenly...
02:22:44.000Free these animals from supposedly efficient confinement programs and grain feeding programs.
02:22:54.000George Washington at Mount Vernon, he always complained about the pigs.
02:22:58.000He was a very meticulous record keeper.
02:23:00.000And he always complained about the pigs because he could never get them all in at once.
02:23:04.000Because he just ran through the woods, and they had their babies, and you kind of, well, it's hog killing time, it's fall, let's get what we can, and they could never get them all.
02:23:14.000So he never really knew, for a meticulous record keeper, this was a nightmare, right?
02:23:20.000He never could count all of his stock.
02:23:42.000You know, the only fence they had were like ricks of, you know, you've seen them around museums and stuff, little, you know, chestnut rail fences.
02:24:17.000So the idea was that the livestock basically ran free, maybe with a herder or something, or there were some fields, but not that many.
02:24:27.000And then what you did is you protected your garden.
02:24:32.000You protected your berries and your really high-value stuff.
02:24:36.000You protected that physically or with a fence or some sort of a barricade.
02:24:42.000Because you simply couldn't afford to fence all the animals and control them.
02:24:46.000So it became a lot easier to grow animals faster with grain than it did with controlled grazing because you couldn't control the grazing.
02:25:03.000So now the technology of electric fencing and composting has enabled us to bring the perennial pasture-based model onto a par with the grain model.
02:25:23.000And the beauty of that is that the pasture-based non-tillage model is a soil-building engine as opposed to tillage, which is a soil-destroying engine.
02:25:36.000And so all of this, you know, all this has to be viewed in context.
02:25:40.000You have to appreciate—I tell people, you know, don't crucify Grandpa.
02:25:45.000He was trying to do what he did, but there's no excuse today for continuing Grandpa's situation because we don't have— We've got things that Grandpa would have given his eye teeth to have today.
02:25:59.000Yeah, I think as we were saying before, we're on the momentum of this past that was set up that also probably couldn't possibly have anticipated the amount of population growth that we have today.
02:26:24.000I sure do, and I'm a pretty incorrigible optimist overall.
02:26:30.000I don't think though that the changes will be gentle.
02:26:36.000You have to understand, if what I've described in this program became normal, it would completely invert the power, position, prestige, and profit of the entire food and farming industry.
02:27:13.000You basically couldn't use compost to fertilize vegetables.
02:27:18.000We can't have animals and produce on the same farm.
02:27:22.000We're going to outlaw outdoor flocks of 3,000 chickens or more.
02:27:27.000There's a huge pushback from that orthodoxy.
02:27:36.000Generally, if you study collapse or guns and germs or 1493 or whatever, what you find is that major societal change generally doesn't happen.
02:27:49.000People don't just wake up and say, I think I want a different society.
02:28:18.000I'm getting ready to go to the Netherlands and do a week of seminars in the Netherlands.
02:28:23.000I spoke to one of their top ag journalists this week.
02:28:29.000Did an interview by phone, and he said that the previous week he had just interviewed the CEO of Syngenta, which is the European counterpart of Armand Santo.
02:28:39.000And several years ago, they adopted a plan, a target that they would increase productivity in grains, the grains that they were working on, by 20% by 2020. 20% by 2020 has a nice ring to it.
02:28:55.000Well, there's several years into that plan, he said for the last 15 years, it's been totally flat.
02:29:03.000Nothing we can do, nothing we can invent, nothing we can do has been able to change grain production at all for the last 15 years.
02:29:48.000And now with GMOs and there are a lot of people that are really pumped up on their hubris who have bought into this notion that we're going to go into some paradise nirvana only to find out Oops,
02:30:09.000GMOs are causing spontaneous abortions and infertility.
02:30:15.000I mean, where has that been established?
02:30:17.000Don Huber, I mean, have him on your show.
02:30:19.000Don Huber, he's a professor and emeritus from Purdue University.
02:30:22.000And he's showing the direct relationship between, or have Jeffrey Smith on, but the direct relationship between glyphosate, which is Roundup, which is the...
02:30:34.000Which is the herbicide that's now doubled in use since GMOs came out.
02:31:28.000And so what I'm getting at is that the industry has continued to peg the future on this thing and present this kind of argument, this face that all is well.
02:31:45.000Man, we're getting ready to perfect everything.
02:32:51.000I know people on the podcast are listening to you, but I hope people out there in the world of agriculture are listening to you.
02:32:58.000I know there's a lot of blowback against you, but I hope people are taking into consideration all these things you're saying because there's so much logic to your words and there's so much wisdom and so much research done that it's just...
02:33:14.000It's a very puzzling situation for someone like me who knows very little about it other than talking to you and reading and watching documentaries.
02:33:26.000And that's why I encourage people to take their recreation entertainment budget of time and money and start to participate in the food system.
02:33:47.000There is not a community in the country that is devoid of really high quality integrity food.
02:33:57.000Many of them are wanting to farm full-time, and they need like 10 more customers or 20 more customers to tip them over so they don't have to commute to town with their town job to support their farm addiction.
02:34:10.000I implore urban people, you know, go to one less movie.