In this episode of "You Dirty Freaks" Joe and Crash talk about the history of sensory deprivation tanks and how they came about. Joe talks about how he got into the audio business and how he built one of the first sensory deprivation chambers. Crash talks about what it was like growing up in a drug and alcohol-infused household and how it all led him to the audio industry. Joe also talks about the early days of his recording career and what it took for him to break out of his addictions to drugs and get into audio work and how that led him into the recording business and eventually into the sensory deprivation tank business. Joe also shares some of the stories of how he became a sensory deprivation chamber maker and how the idea for the first one came to life. Joe is a long time friend of mine and has been with me for over 20 years and I'm so grateful to have him on the show. I hope you enjoy this episode and that you enjoy listening to it! You dirty freaks! -Joe and Crash Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Music by PSOVOD and JP Morton. If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts and subscribe to the podcast! I'll be listening to your favorite streaming service and sharing it on Anchor.fm and other podcasting platforms. Thank you! in the comments! Cheers, Joe, Joe and Joe, Love, Joe" -Joe, Joe "The Dirty Freakz" & Crash "The Clean Freak" and Joe "Dirty Freakz "Chad" & Joe "Charts" "The Crew" and "Joe, the Clean Freakz Podcast, The Dirty Freak" Podcast. - & "The Dope Freaks Podcast . Joe, the podcasting Crew - Joe "Joe" & the Crew, the podcast, Joe "Astro Boy" - the podcast The Crew, the DJ, the host of the Dirty Freak Out Crew, and the crew, the crew at the Crew and the Crew at the Dirty Freakz, the Crew. and The Crew at The Dirty Fr Freakz, . . , the Crew is , Joe & The Crew and the Freaks, the Owners Club, , and is the Crew Out, etc.
00:01:55.000So I was finally done with that, and I kicked the dope and went on out there to Vegas from Hollywood, left my buildings in I built a recording studio.
00:02:04.000I got a ranch out there 10 miles south of town.
00:03:12.000And at that moment, I was relieved of all my previous, you know, like I had a, you know, you think back and say, oh, I used to have this, I used to have that.
00:03:19.000I'd built empires and then collapse them over the years.
00:03:22.000You know, I'd worked, worked, worked really hard.
00:03:24.000And then because of too much fun, wrecked it every time, you know.
00:04:32.000If it's a town that has a sensory deprivation tank, I get these offers to come stop by and check them out and people say, hey, we started doing it because we heard about it on the podcast.
00:05:04.000I'm pretty well sure of it at this point.
00:05:06.000Because I have a realistic vision of the situation.
00:05:11.000And I'm convinced at this point that indeed it is going to work.
00:05:17.000And I don't know how it all is going to turn out, of course, but I think that we're having a chance now.
00:05:24.000And that's why this situation is so important to me, this disinfection and this electrical and all these features that have to do with health and safety.
00:05:33.000So this can become a safe, healthy, and...
00:05:38.000Just like restaurants, just like anything else that involves cleanliness.
00:05:44.000And then for you, what's important is that it protects the benefits of this service where all of the negative aspects of it are eliminated with foresight.
00:05:53.000And I think that's super important, and I really commend you on that.
00:05:57.000And you also have these really fascinating ideas about how to go about that.
00:06:02.000I mean, your systems, the cleanliness and all of the ozone, the filters, and the sensitivity of the filters, it's all incredible stuff, incredibly detailed stuff.
00:06:12.000Yeah, we've spent a lot of time keeping getting better.
00:06:15.000We're just now finishing up with a whole other bunch of stuff, too, that...
00:07:06.000Yeah, so essentially these parts and components did not exist until you came along and designed these new devices for chambers to keep them clean.
00:07:14.000And then figured out how to get them all to work together.
00:07:44.000We could put one of our devices anywhere and the authorities will allow it because it's done to code.
00:07:51.000That's why when these places, they're trying to get through this trouble, they're looking for an exemption or a, was the other word they got?
00:08:00.000Variants, these different things they try to get.
00:08:04.000Also, it's not a swimming pool, so you don't have to have any code or whatever.
00:08:27.000You read through this, and this is the reality of the direction that the industry is going in, that the authorities are aware, and they're not stupid.
00:08:42.000And they can't turn a blind eye on this anymore because it's been brought to their attention now.
00:08:46.000Well, it's also been brought to their attention that there's a lot going on right now where people are being investigated for things like the Dr. Oz stuff, where he's got all this weight loss shit that's out there, and all this self-help industry, like things along the lines of isolation tanks.
00:09:01.000It could be incredibly damaging if these things become as popular as you and I think they will be, and the filtration systems aren't good, and people have nightmare stories.
00:09:16.000These things were not capable of dealing with an AIDS. Even these parasites, like the cryptosporidium, that'll take 10 days in chlorine to deactivate.
00:09:45.000Like, when you go into a chlorinated pool, and you go into, like, a public pool, especially, that's heavily chlorinated, it hurts your eyes.
00:09:55.000And when it's breaking down in action with these other materials, these methanes, like I say, it's creating a plethora of toxic byproducts then that need to be eradicated.
00:10:20.000Today, you're going to take $800 of your money and throw it down a drain, but yesterday, it was just fine to charge somebody to come in here and stew around in that stuff.
00:12:03.000You know, the issue is with us, though, is that people, they're going to take that system that we said is for your home, and they're going to put it into a commercial space.
00:12:14.000But once that these laws and all of these standards are put into place, then certainly then we might be interested in saying, okay, now here's how it could be done.
00:12:25.000That would be less effective, say, than the commercial version.
00:12:31.000But first, we're very diligent about is to establish these guidelines in the beginning.
00:12:46.000It's perfect as it is now, but the rest of it is like, okay, we could do that, but it wouldn't be what it is that we've taken so much time and effort to get right.
00:12:59.000Now, we know all the other components, the less expensive ones, let's say.
00:13:05.000Right, but what I'm saying is the only reason why you need all those expensive components is because you're dealing with more than one human being, right?
00:13:12.000If it's me that's the one human being, I'm completely okay with taking super clean actions on it.
00:14:01.000And do you think that perhaps some of these other designs are made from people that do not have a long-term history, a long-time history in this sort of a business?
00:14:11.000Like, they don't understand what's involved.
00:14:13.000I remember the thing about the dude who worked for Samadhi.
00:14:17.000He had encountered all the bullshit before.
00:14:49.000The ones that I'm aware of, some of these guys, I don't know them because I try not to get involved with these people because we're on our own page.
00:17:13.000That spinabout kick where that guy kicks him in the chin.
00:17:16.000I watched you walk out on a little clip, and you're walking out on, this is a long time ago, And as you're walking, you don't even stop walking, and you jump around and kick the guy.
00:17:26.000I think you kick him in the chest or something, and he goes out immediately.
00:19:57.000So if someone decides to hit you and you don't see it coming, it can be very dangerous.
00:20:00.000And when someone keeps invading your space and they're not listening, they're violent, they're angry, they're spitting your face, they're screaming, if you just let a guy hit you, you know, the first punch is one of the most important aspects of any sort of an altercation.
00:20:14.000You get hit, you get hurt, you get damaged, and then someone can fuck you up.
00:20:18.000You've got to be really careful about that.
00:21:49.000People, cooler heads prevail, people relax, they calm down.
00:21:52.000They calm down and get over a situation that could have resulted in a murder.
00:21:55.000I mean, that happens all the time, where it's just like, people escalate, and they get to this point, and they make irrational decisions, and they're super violent, and then they go and do something really dumb.
00:22:29.000They don't have a release for their aggression.
00:22:30.000They don't have a release for their frustration.
00:22:32.000They don't have a release for the energy that their body continues to make.
00:22:36.000They have all this food they're taking in their body.
00:22:38.000Their body's getting fat because they're not exercising it.
00:22:41.000So there's all these imbalances and everybody's uncomfortable and people are agitated.
00:22:46.000They're agitated and easily irritated and it's all about personal maintenance and it's all an issue of personal maintenance.
00:22:54.000Whether it's by taking yoga classes or what you and I like to do by getting into the tank or what some folks like to do, they just like to go for an evening jog.
00:23:01.000I know a lot of people that say that they go for a jog, like Jamie's a big jogger.
00:23:06.000You go for a run and it clears your mind.
00:23:08.000When it's over, things that seemed so important 20 minutes ago, they don't seem that important anymore.
00:23:13.000An hour ago, you were sweating all these different things, and now you're like, in a greater perspective, everything's going to be okay.
00:23:19.000I was just caught up in a wave of momentum, of emotions, and anxiety, and oftentimes, you can alleviate a big chunk of those just with physical exercise.
00:23:29.000They say that physical exercise is as effective as antidepressants when it comes to making people feel better.
00:25:04.000I think that allows the mind to release a little bit or at least come down perhaps when it's The physical situation is requiring more of you, and then your mind is freed up from creating problems to evaluate.
00:25:22.000Yeah, it's the battery thing we were talking about earlier, too.
00:25:24.000Your body stores up all this energy, and you don't have a release.
00:25:28.000Some folks never have any sort of an explosive release, like months, weeks, days.
00:27:41.000But if it's set up correctly, it's an amazing thing, and it should be something that...
00:27:48.000Everyone, at least at one point in your life, recognizes or experiences because I think that it's an alien environment that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.
00:27:59.000If you could take a pill that could give you the experience that you get when you're full blown in the tank, you know that feeling that you get when you're fully relaxed?
00:28:08.000When you've completely let go, like an hour in or something like that, where everything is just so chill, and your mind is in this incredible place, and you're essentially just breathing and floating.
00:28:18.000When you hit that moment, man, if you could get a pill that could put people in that state, it would be like ecstasy.
00:28:24.000People would be trading it in the black market.
00:29:25.000People get addicted to fighting with their spouse.
00:29:27.000There's a lot of people that just can't help it.
00:29:29.000They have these seesaw battles in their relationships where they get mad and yell at each other, and then they recover, and they love each other so much better because of the fact they've gone through this almost...
00:30:24.000In order to just unplug, not answer the phone, or not have anything going on at all, it's so very complex to get yourself...
00:30:35.000Somewhere where you almost have to leave and go on a vacation or something.
00:30:40.000But in there, you could just get in there and close the door and then take yourself out of whatever it was that was where you wanted to leave from.
00:30:52.000Come back later better prepared to deal with the situation that it might have been, you know?
00:32:34.000Somebody that really has a lot in him to contribute.
00:32:36.000Fascinating, honest, inquisitive, willing to take chances.
00:32:40.000And even if he's incorrect occasionally with some of these ideas, the ones that he's been correct about, it's pretty mind-blowing some of the implications of some of the things that he's discovered.
00:32:50.000And with things, we were talking about this on the car ride up here, that Gobekli Tepe situation, where they've discovered this incredible stone ruins from 14,000 years ago, and this is something that they just didn't even know existed before.
00:33:03.000They didn't know there was a culture 14,000 years ago that was capable of building something like this.
00:33:08.000And because of the fact that it was covered up 14,000 years ago, they're pretty sure that it was built at least that long ago, perhaps even longer.
00:33:16.000Didn't they seem to have thought that it was covered up on purpose?
00:33:25.000This is, I mean, pretty much completely agreed upon by all these different scientists.
00:33:30.000That at some point, around 12,000 years ago, they covered all of these stone structures.
00:33:36.000And it's an enormous stone structure complex of these concentric circles and these weird three-dimensional carvings that are into these stone columns.
00:33:46.000They're very intricate, very difficult to do, especially back then when they thought that people were essentially just hunters and gatherers, which is, you know, they didn't think that people had built cities back then.
00:33:56.000So 14,000 years ago, someone, or 12,000 plus years ago, I think?
00:34:39.000Well, it's just mainstream television, mainstream media, a lot of it's a business, and it's based on the base humans, the amount of numbers.
00:34:49.000Look, I've talked to a lot of people that work for paparazzis, that work for TMZ, that work for these people, and they're just regular people.
00:34:57.000That are a part of this system that they get some money out of.
00:34:59.000And the get some money out of the system exists because people are curious as to what Britney Spears is up to.
00:35:04.000They're curious as to how Kanye West is going to deal with Jimmy Kimmel making fun of him.
00:35:10.000People just get super obsessed by this stuff and there's a business in feeding that obsession.
00:35:15.000So all these people that don't take themselves away from the television and don't get into an isolation tank and don't take a yoga...
00:35:49.000Maybe if people continue to, you know, get smarter along the course that we looked at earlier in the podcast, not the courtship of Eddie's father, but of Leave it to Beaver.
00:36:01.000We look at Leave it to Beaver and then look at things that we see on television today and the sophistication level of the media that we produce, the artwork that we produce is pretty intense.
00:37:16.000Yeah, and know what those reasons are.
00:37:18.000And that's one of the things about meditation, whether it's TM or whether it's yoga, whether it's going into a tank.
00:37:24.000When you're alone with your thoughts, you get an idea of what your thoughts actually are.
00:37:29.000If you live your life just acting constantly on the momentum of other people's expectations, of you wanting to be liked by these other people, you can run into a trap.
00:37:43.000You're trapped in this situation where you have a mortgage, you've got credit card bills, you've got student loans you have to pay, you have a bunch of shit going on that you have to continue to feed.
00:37:52.000And especially if you have a family and you have to feed them, oh my goodness.
00:38:36.000The system will set out the ideas of retirement, the ideas of the golden years, providing you benefits, providing you a healthy work environment.
00:39:04.000To see all the problems that could potentially lay in front of you and calculate your future.
00:39:10.000And then also look around at all the people that didn't do it and look at the misery that they're in and learn that you don't want to be like them.
00:39:16.000And then look at the people that have kind of taken chances and navigated their way.
00:39:22.000What objectivity do they have that maybe you lack?
00:39:24.000What insight into their own mistakes are they willing to delve into that you're not, that you step back and go, you know, I just don't want to look at myself that closely.
00:39:34.000But the person who's able to look at themselves the closest is going to get the more rational results.
00:39:40.000Well put, you know, because you're your own architect, you know what I mean?
00:40:25.000I'm talking about completely consciously.
00:40:27.000Isn't that the idea behind, like, the secret?
00:40:29.000Did you get, like, when that whole the secret thing was going on, and what the bleep do we know, and people started really getting into the idea of manifesting your own reality with your imagination, did you get a lot more people coming into the tank centers looking for a place to do it?
00:40:42.000I think that was probably, like, kind of in the...
00:41:45.000Yeah, but those are the ones you've got to listen to, man, because all these other people, they're seeing ghosts and shit.
00:41:50.000You know, the problem is the scientists are the ones that are analyzing shit and looking for actual results, whereas the people that are really into spirituality and channelers, they're looking to find a very specific result.
00:42:03.000They're not looking to just measure these things.
00:42:06.000You ever done that thing with the muscle testing?
00:42:08.000And they push on your arm, and they put the little medallion on you, the Tesla medallion or whatever, and they say, oh, you know, this is a Tesla technology.
00:43:02.000And when I came back then, all the tests were off.
00:43:05.000The guy had not a clue how to manipulate the test.
00:43:08.000So he didn't know if you had it on you, so then he started doing all his carny tricks and he couldn't commit to them because it didn't work?
00:46:35.000Well, if you have an initial investment and you build an X amount of tanks and then you have a place where it makes sense as far as the amount of rent and then you just have them filled all day long, it can be profitable.
00:46:46.000I mean, you're not going to be Rockefeller, but you're not trying to do that.
00:46:50.000You're just trying to spread this shit.
00:46:51.000We're trying to accommodate the people in general, not a specific group of people.
00:46:56.000I remember when I saw the clubs, I always have the jello shooters for a dollar.
00:47:19.000Like, the people that come to you, like, I never hear anybody, I've never once heard anybody go to your thing and go, you know what, Crash was rude, the place sucked, the tanks were expensive.
00:49:28.000But that chamber, though, is in primo shape.
00:49:30.000We have it all fixed up, and one day we'll figure out what we're going to do, because we're going to be talking more about this venue in Westwood.
00:49:39.000Yeah, so you're going to open up a place in Westwood.
00:49:40.000When is it going to be open for the public?
00:50:47.000You and him and other people, mostly it's just you and him.
00:50:51.000I don't know who else has really been...
00:50:53.000Well, that was his first jaunt, his first real run in the tank.
00:50:57.000But his whole thing, that pharmacopoeia show that he does, really was fascinating.
00:51:04.000He had a lot of really fascinating episodes, really cool, well-produced episodes where they covered a lot of different kinds of psychedelics, a lot of different kinds of subjects.
00:51:13.000This subject, this whole thing where people are getting curious about altered states of consciousness is increasing and growing.
00:51:22.000And even more so, this idea that you could do it in something like the tank where it's totally natural and safe and healthy.
00:53:20.000It's super, super important to have a balance and also to find things in your life that stimulate you.
00:53:26.000The more things that I do that excite me and stimulate me, the more things that I do where I'm learning new stuff...
00:53:32.000I get into things and those things that I get into wind up enriching my life.
00:53:37.000The enthusiasm that I get from pursuing some new subject that I'm interested in.
00:53:41.000Learning is cool when you're learning what you want to learn about.
00:53:45.000Which is why I wanted to talk to you about these Crazy screens that you're trying to hook up these tanks with.
00:53:50.000This is the thing that Crash was going off about forever, was these screens that would suspend above the tank and emit the lowest amount of light possible so that you only saw the image.
00:54:01.000You didn't see the actual screen itself or the border itself.
00:54:05.000You just saw the image in front of you and in that sensory deprivation state where the only input that was coming in was what you were catching off the screen and what you were hearing from the program.
00:54:14.000That your mind would be way more easily, way more able to absorb the information.
00:54:46.000And as soon as the screen changes around, you're convinced that you're standing on your feet and looking forward on your feet at the screen.
00:56:22.000So if you're in a dome now, and you're laying back on your dome, and those tiles are underneath you, so the bottom is waterproof, of course, but you use the lights on the bottom, a projector, or whatever, on the bottom, and you're in a dome, you're laying on your back,
00:56:37.000and the dome then is all filled in with screens and stuff, and the bottom.
00:56:42.000So now you're laying in this thing, and you're flying through space in a dome, the upside, everywhere you look, and then it flips you over, so you think you're flying like this.
01:00:03.000They haven't built it for me yet, but I've discussed it with them, and they understand that they can do it based on some testing they've done in a bathtub somewhere.
01:00:10.000These sensors then, you see as they're connected to you, You input information.
01:00:15.000See, that's the other thing, the sensory of what's going out and what's going into you, and then monitoring what occurs based on this input.
01:00:25.000But, you know, I don't want to get too deep into it because it's kind of like in the future right now.
01:00:29.000So your idea is to combine sound with images to essentially tune your body to a different frequency, and that could potentially change the way your body produces cells?
01:01:28.000The resources now to complete that in some sort of period of time once we focus back to it.
01:01:33.000We've been trying to get this other stuff done so then we can get back to this stuff, but that technology that we have built and patented as well, It's extraordinary.
01:01:42.000And that takes this thing to another level.
01:01:44.000I mean, this is what it is, and that's why it's so important as well.
01:01:47.000These vehicles that we're producing now, not only will they be used for this stuff that we've been talking about here in regards to relaxation and so forth else, it will eventually in the future be used also for other health benefits and learning and A whole array of various Positive features that this thing...
01:03:29.000They changed around the information somehow.
01:03:32.000And it comes out there and then you think it's out there when it's somehow back in here being interpreted?
01:03:36.000Well, what we were talking about earlier was meditation.
01:03:38.000There's a study, if you Google how meditation changes your brain, a neuroscientist explains.
01:03:46.000There was a group of Harvard neuroscientists led by this woman, Sarah Lazar, Who's a PhD, and they were interested in mindfulness meditation, and they reported that the brain structures, they monitored brain structures, change after only eight weeks of meditation practice.
01:04:02.000Eight weeks of meditation practice, and your brain starts branching out in a different way.
01:04:27.000And if you can expand your mind, believe me, all these people that are trying this, if they tried it in a tank, it would be oh so much more effective.
01:05:05.000These are 20 years in the side of a mountain meditating.
01:05:08.000Or you could go jump in a chamber and get yourself sorted out much faster.
01:05:14.000Well, yeah, I mean, I would like to see what those kundalini masters see when they hit that highest level, because I do believe that they can achieve psychedelic states.
01:05:47.000He also, the freeing aspect of chanting and just the harmonizing and saying all those things, you just sort of get into this state of mind.
01:09:58.000Very appropriate to offer these servicemen and women that come back and have troubles dealing with the framework of their situation when they get back here.
01:10:15.000If they had the opportunity to go in there and investigate the Because it's already done.
01:10:20.000You can't go in there and erase whatever it was that's bothering you.
01:10:23.000But you could go in there and come to terms with whatever it was, realizing it is, it's done, it is what it was, just like any other problem that people go back to.
01:10:34.000I mean, at some point, it's up to you to release yourself from that obligation to get upset or feel bad about Something that didn't go right in the past, you know?
01:10:45.000That's a huge point, because people define themselves by the past.
01:10:49.000Instead of thinking about who they are now, they still look back at a mistake they made, and don't just get past that mistake.
01:11:00.000I met some guys in a band, he's a singer.
01:11:03.000I've only met him twice, two different times, years later.
01:11:06.000Both times he started telling me about this story about what happened to him when he was in this...
01:11:10.000And you're thinking, this poor guy has gone on all these years and he's still focused on the worst situation that he ever had to live through.
01:12:59.000Because somewhere along the line, they didn't face enough of the adversity to realize that there's some times where you just got to get up and get shit done.
01:13:06.000There's some times where you have to fucking pull yourself up and you have to push forward even if you want to stay in bed.
01:13:12.000And if you don't do that and you just keep calling on your daddy and your daddy keeps rescuing you, you never develop those tools.
01:13:18.000You never develop that ability to recognize what you're doing wrong with your life.
01:14:54.000Every time things go wrong, every time things feel terrible, you have an opportunity to learn from whatever makes you feel terrible and never allow it to happen again.
01:15:22.000And I think that you can really get something out of that.
01:15:26.000With those sort of ideas in your mind about constant, consistent improvement, and the only thing that you'll allow from yourself is to maintain a certain standard, then consistently try to improve.
01:17:22.000We both let people understand what the benefits of these things are, and we both benefit from them as well and are generous with those ideas and spread those ideas to other people.
01:17:33.000Just to let them know, man, I'm not making this up.