This week, we're joined by Cara Santa Maria, a Texas native, to talk about her favorite snack mix, the Lone Star Snack Mix, and how to get started with writing down a morning routine. We're also joined by NatureBox, a new sponsor of the podcast, and Onnit, a human optimization website that helps you optimize your life and career by helping you find the best tools and equipment to help you get the most out of your day-to-day life. Thanks to our sponsor, ZipRecruiter, we can now find quality candidates on all the top job sites, and now you can hire the perfect candidate for the job you re hiring for. We're good to go! XOXO, Caitlyn Caitlyn is a writer, comedian, podcaster, and all-around badass. She's on a mission to help people do the things they need to do to be the best they can to live the best life they can, and she's here to do it. Caitlyn's mission is simple: to help others live the life they want to live in the best way they can. She's got a plan, and it's simple, but it's not complicated. If you want to learn how to live your best life, you can do it by listening to Caitlyn s advice and doing the things you enjoy doing the most you can, so you don't have to do the most important thing you can think of. We hope you enjoy this episode, and don t you do it the most of your life. If you enjoy it the best you can be a little bit better than you could do it, and you relllllll. Enjoy! - Caitlyn xoxo Caitlyn XOXOXO Caitlyn and Caitlyn, Ronna, Sarah, Ronna Cara, Rona, and Rennie, Rennee, Rynn, and Sarah, . Sarah Thanks for listening and supporting the podcast. - Sarah, Sarah, Jazmin, Sarah & Sarah, Caitlin, and Jon, Rene, and Jai, Jai and Jon Jai and Joni Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Caitlin & Joni, Rienee, Joni. Sarah and Jonni Joni is a friend of Sarah's work.
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00:06:22.000Boom, kapowie wowie, Cara Santa Maria is here.
00:07:26.000I'm trying to tell my Facebook followers that I'm on right now, but there's so many different Joe Rogans, and I don't want to click on the wrong one.
00:08:21.000I'm telling you, thank you, by the way, but I'm telling you, when I left your studio the last time I was on, I probably got 300 tweets from people saying, start your podcast, start your podcast, we'll listen.
00:08:50.000You need something like this because, you know, whenever you deal with a lot of producers or, you know, network folk, they mean well, but they all, everyone has their own idea of what should happen.
00:09:05.000And even if they're nice people, it gets in the way.
00:09:36.000Prior to only doing those and the podcast, I was full-time on a show called Take Part Live on Pivot TV. That was daily, 8 to 12 hours a day, every day, hair and makeup for two hours straight.
00:10:04.000And I look back and that is really when the podcast started because I was so, like you said, kind of boxed into speaking only in soundbites and presenting a version of myself that, honestly, I was not comfortable really presenting.
00:10:22.000It was so psychologically freeing for me.
00:10:26.000And now I think it really helps keep me centered and anchored when I do new jobs and new work to really understand how not to let things get out of hand like that.
00:10:34.000Yeah, the best representative of yourself is yourself.
00:11:17.000And we've talked about it many times in the podcast about how you watch Fox News and all those women who like, it's almost like they have it in their contract that they have to uncross and cross their legs like a certain amount of times per minute.
00:11:28.000Because it's like, who the fuck is that uncomfortable that you're constantly shifting and switching your legs back and forth?
00:11:33.000And if a man dressed like that, it would be so insane.
00:11:39.000Because there are, you know, if you watch runway shows ever, you keep up with fashion at all, there are kind of male versions of that sort of ensemble, but nobody actually wears that in real life.
00:11:50.000Like the short, kind of tight, maybe not up to your nutsack, but like halfway down your thigh, these little like plaid shorts.
00:12:46.000Anthony Clark, you know Anthony Clark, the stand-up comedian?
00:12:48.000I'll never forget what he said about vaginas because he's of a different persuasion.
00:12:52.000He goes, first time I saw a vagina, I was like, ew, when's it going to heal?
00:12:59.000But it is a weird thing, I mean, that you're presented as a serious journalist on Fox News or as a neuroscientist, which is what you are, and yet they want you to have your vagina basically just barely protected by a little napkin that they throw over it.
00:14:44.000And it was produced and kind of narrated by Jennifer Siebel Newsom, who's Gavin Newsom's wife.
00:14:50.000And the whole thing is kind of about media representations of women, how women are portrayed, how women, you know, make up X amount of the population, X amount of the jobs in this field, in this field, in this field, and then how they're represented both in fictional television,
00:15:10.000And they talk a little bit about that kind of why are female news readers meant to look so...
00:15:18.000It's always kind of like the crusty old dude and then like his hot niece.
00:15:23.000Like that's what it looks like when you look at a news reading team.
00:15:27.000And they have these great interviews with people like Lisa Ling and Katie Couric and kind of talking about...
00:15:34.000Katie actually is very open and says, I kind of feel guilty, like almost I played into this, like maybe I set this trend in motion.
00:15:41.000And, you know, I was fit, I wore, you know, not ridiculously short skirts, but you could see my legs on TV. And then it seems like that's now the formula that every newsreader has to have.
00:15:52.000And you almost just assume that they're dumb.
00:15:54.000Like, it portrays, I don't think it portrays strength, unfortunately, when you have these, like, girls that are women that look like they're trying so hard to be sexy.
00:16:06.000Then all of a sudden, it puts it in your head, like, oh, she's just reading a script that somebody else wrote for her.
00:16:11.000When sometimes these are really, really bright, really successful women.
00:16:24.000And the truth is, they also in the documentary, they showed all of the major news corporations, which there aren't that many anymore, you know, they've been kind of conglomerating and, and more and more of the property is owned by less and less people.
00:16:36.000And they showed the number of women on the board, on the board of all of these different news organizations.
00:16:42.000And so you look at like Time Warner, or you look at Viacom, and it's like one woman, two women, you As opposed to like 30 men or 15 men.
00:16:54.000The people that are making the shows and the people who have ultimate control over those kinds of decisions historically and to this day are like 99% male.
00:17:03.000I wonder if that's why women like Megyn Kelly, that fox lady, who's not dumb at all.
00:17:08.000She's very sharp, but she's also kind of mean.
00:17:13.000I wonder if it's to let you know, hey, fuckface, just because I've got my tits hanging out and my legs crisscrossed, barely covering my cooter, I'll still put you in your place.
00:17:24.000She's on her heels all the time, always backed up.
00:17:26.000Yeah, I don't think it's an uncommon feeling for women who are just in a position where they're surrounded by men who just are going to assume when they walk in the door that she's just dumb bimbo, she's a weather girl, she's a newsreader, but really she's writing her own copy and doing her own research and is a really strong,
00:19:15.000And you get that thing, too, where even if they don't overtly tell you, it's like you get off air every night.
00:19:20.000And when you're dressed in an outfit that you love, like pants, a shirt, like you feel comfortable, but you feel good about yourself and you look in the mirror and you think your body looks good.
00:19:29.000It's like, whatever, okay, fine show, whatever.
00:19:31.000You wear like the dumbest little short pink skirt or dress that you're totally uncomfortable in and you're not acting like yourself.
00:19:51.000Having someone talk to you, especially if you're in the middle of a conversation and they're saying, get off that or don't say this or bring this back and bring up that or ask this.
00:20:34.000First of all, when you're doing post-fight interviews, you're doing it in real time, off the cuff, completely ad-libbed, and you're asking questions and adjusting based on how the fighter talks to you.
00:20:44.000And that's what they don't understand.
00:20:46.000Like, even a good producer will be like, well, I never talk to you while you're talking.
00:21:17.000Well, that's the beautiful thing about the internet.
00:21:19.000You know, the beautiful thing about the internet and producing your own show and creating your own show is I kind of look at those old shows, the shows that have been around for a long time like that.
00:21:27.000Especially those news type shows where you talked about the uncle and the niece and that kind of weird format where they talk fake and everything's seven minutes cut to commercial.
00:22:59.000Like, they give you a book, and you're supposed to carry it around and write down when you listen to this channel, when you listen to that channel.
00:23:16.000Well, there's that thing that they do on networks as well where they'll, like, if you're on a talk show especially, they have the ratings based on how many people are watching up until a certain point.
00:23:29.000Like, that's why The Tonight Show has a 20-minute first break because 15 minutes in is when they do their first rating.
00:23:34.000So they don't want to cut the commercial because then you'll change the channel and it'll fuck up the ratings.
00:23:48.000They do anything to try to get you to hang in there for 20 minutes and then they'll bring someone on.
00:23:53.000And that's like what the skirts are all about and that's why you have all these people that their sensibility is not based on what's the best way to get Kara's thoughts out?
00:24:02.000What's the best way to get Megan's thoughts out?
00:24:05.000The thing is how do I get someone to watch this chick?
00:24:08.000And also, there is a problem, I think, where people say, okay, well, people in the industry, especially, when you talk to them about this, they go, well, whatever, we just give people what they want.
00:24:16.000So you look at, like, bad reality TV, where there's catfights and humiliation television and all the shit that, you know, the Kardashians, all the shit that we're like, ugh, it breaks my heart that this is so popular in America.
00:25:35.000She dresses, she'll wear slacks, she'll wear, I mean, she's very pretty, but she'll wear, you know, she'll wear something that makes her look hot, if that's what she wants to wear, or she'll wear something different, but she has a weird situation there, too, where she's criticized Russia, like, especially what's going on in the Ukraine,
00:25:51.000and, you know, and they were like, we're going to send you to the Ukraine, and she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, the fuck you are?
00:25:56.000Like, no, you're not sending me to the Ukraine.
00:25:58.000Like, they, like, made a public, a press statement, because she was criticizing Putin's administration and what was going on.
00:26:07.000It was very public on television, she did this thing.
00:26:10.000And so they said, we're going to send her to Crimea so she can see what it's like on the ground.
00:26:16.000She's like, are you out of your fucking mind?
00:26:29.000I'm pretty good friends with Alona Minkowski and Jenny Churchill, who used to work at RT on the Alona show back in the day, and then they went over to HuffPost and were at HuffPost Live, which is where I kind of met them.
00:26:43.000And that's where you were the science editor.
00:26:45.000Yeah, that's where I was their science correspondent.
00:26:47.000There was a science editor in New York.
00:26:48.000I did all their correspondent like on air work.
00:27:36.000Yeah, get something that you can put on television, but then people will make a clip of it and put it on YouTube, and then everybody trades it.
00:27:42.000I mean, look at SNL. Obviously, people still watch it, if you want to believe Nielsen ratings, but that show is not good anymore.
00:27:49.000It hasn't been good in a really long time, but they really reinvented themselves with the digital shorts a few years ago, and as those were getting released, I mean, there was this new kind of resurgence of young people being like, oh, SNL is actually funny.
00:28:05.000Yeah, it's the whole problem with this, and there's a bunch of problems, but trying to do a new show every week and then just doing it live in front of an audience is a terrible idea.
00:28:13.000And they don't have, it's like, make it a half-hour show.
00:28:16.000Like, don't make it an hour, because what ends up happening is they have good ideas for clips, and then they just, every single sketch, they just run it into the ground.
00:28:25.000It's just like, they get the joke, and then they repeat it ten times.
00:28:28.000Well, it's also like a super competitive environment.
00:28:31.000And, you know, Phil Hartman, who is a good friend of mine, We were on news radio together, and he was on Saturday Night Live, and he had nightmare stories.
00:28:40.000Like, after talking to him about what it was like, the backstabbing and all the weird behind-the-scenes shit that goes on, people trying to force their sketches in and other people cock-blocking them, it was just like, ugh.
00:28:52.000The worst thing, the worst way to come up with something creative, like to have this weird competitive environment, like no one's supporting it.
00:28:59.000I mean, I don't know how it is there now, but he told me some nightmare stories.
00:29:02.000Yeah, and I just, I mean, there were times when it was really amazing, but I don't know, it's also kind of not my speed.
00:29:34.000But people have these expectations, and they want to live up to those expectations, and they want to keep up with the ratings, and make enough money, and ugh.
00:29:41.000The old school TV model is, I don't know how much life it has left in it.
00:29:45.000The problem is that's where the money is still.
00:29:48.000It's all of the investors, all of the advertisers, it's how they know how to do their jobs because they've been doing it for so long that they still pump so much money into that machine.
00:30:16.000But the truth is, we're still in this kind of legacy world with old school media.
00:30:22.000And until those large corporations start to understand new media, I think that you're going to see this weird inflated bubble where all the money still stays there, but nobody's even fucking watching anymore.
00:30:34.000It's adjusting slowly, but it's definitely in this transitionary period where more people are kind of realizing, hey, isn't everybody online?
00:30:57.000The only benefit that I could see in networks is things like Game of Thrones, where you need massive budgets to put on these spectacular special effects and film everything in Ireland.
00:31:05.000Yeah, but even you're seeing Netflix starting to do that, you know what I mean?
00:33:20.000When you don't have female physicians and you don't have female researchers because the institutions don't allow them, then you don't have a female research perspective.
00:33:28.000So all of a sudden, all of your research subjects are men because nobody thinks that it matters to research what happens to a woman's body.
00:33:35.000And it took decades for research on female sexual response to catch up to research on male sexual response, which is crazy because females are the child bearers.
00:34:37.000And they probably gave them like early versions of psychiatric medications and they basically let them leave whatever stressful environment they were in.
00:34:44.000Get away from the babies that were making you depressed.
00:35:04.000And then, slowly but surely, things sort of equalized in terms of the more aggressive sex, males paying more attention to the needs of the female.
00:35:14.000But in the old days, when things were much harsher, people lived less, they have a shorter lifespan, the world was a darker place, then it was more sexist.
00:35:25.000The thing was more like men were just like, look, these are tough times, fuck off, bitch.
00:36:36.000I'm not sure of just moving to the future and I'm not sure if it's a function of people having more access to food and goods and services or if it's really a function of women.
00:36:46.000Because what happened was women were mothers and men said, okay, mothers bring life.
00:36:54.000This is something that we should respect and we should honor.
00:36:57.000And this was a historical norm for a very long time.
00:37:01.000And then as, you know, these kind of hunter-gatherer societies moved into more agrarian societies and started to form cultural structures, men realized, I can overpower that bitch.
00:37:12.000Like, I have physical strength, and I can physically...
00:37:18.000And as they realized that there was a power differential between them, that men were physically stronger, I think that's where a lot of patriarchal wisdom comes from, is that men are physically stronger than women.
00:37:29.000Do you think that was realized not until there was agriculture, not until there was cities?
00:37:37.000I think that that was a big part of it.
00:37:39.000Don't you think that that would be a big part of it everywhere?
00:37:43.000Well, if you are a hunter-gatherer type and so you're living in a very small tribe and you're concerned about kinship or the welfare of your children, then I think that there's a certain amount of respect and honor that you are going to pay to your wife if But why does that go away with agriculture?
00:38:24.000People have to depend on one another for goods and services, and they have to say, okay, I'll trade you this for that, and then money comes into play and bartering.
00:38:31.000And all of a sudden, whereas it was a lot more egalitarian before, where everybody kind of had a strong role because they were taking care of themselves or they're very small groups, they're family groups.
00:38:41.000Now, all of a sudden, they have a place in society.
00:38:43.000And that's, I think, where you really start to see subjection of women is because men start to develop power within societies.
00:38:54.000And if you look back historically, there are no known societies that were matriarchal societies, but you do see in smaller kind of tribal communities more matriarchal ideology.
00:39:08.000More kind of honoring and worshiping of mother figures and mother gods.
00:39:12.000But every time there's a society, it becomes patriarchal historically throughout all time.
00:39:19.000There's no such thing as those Amazonian, like, women tribes that, you know, people talk about, like, the Amazonian women— That's just dudes jerk off fantasies.
00:39:31.000So, and I don't know, I can't say that that's a cause of it, but those things are highly correlated.
00:39:36.000But do you think that that evens out once civilization and society becomes more complex and has, see, my point was that scarcity makes people desperate.
00:39:46.000And when people get desperate, they victimize not just women, but they victimize weaker men as well.
00:40:16.000When people are desperate, people know that...
00:40:21.000Think about if you're having an argument with another guy or if something comes to a head, even at work, wherever, and you're having an argument and you can't agree with each other and you start to get more and more frustrated.
00:40:32.000What's the way in every film, in every book, what's the way that it finally gets settled?
00:41:02.000It's counterintuitive, but the best way to avoid that with men is martial arts.
00:41:06.000Get men in a situation where they train and they compete against each other on a regular basis.
00:41:11.000They don't have this need to dominate each other the way.
00:41:15.000It's true, because I do think that it's a bit stupid to just completely ignore the role that things like testosterone play in gender dimorphism, like in female-male differences in humans and other higher-order mammals.
00:41:31.000And testosterone is a chemical that actually is highly linked to things like aggression and feeling tension and having this need to release that in some way.
00:41:48.000And some women are more aggressive and some women are completely passive and are never aggressive that way.
00:41:52.000But there is a significant difference between males and females and testosterone is a big reason for that.
00:41:58.000So being able to get that aggression out, whether it's on a heavy bag or whether it's through martial arts or whatever exercises you use, I think it's irresponsible to think that that's not part of the equation.
00:42:09.000Yeah, it definitely is for a man coming from a male point of view.
00:42:12.000I know that it makes a significant difference with me whether or not I can release it or not.
00:42:16.000But it's also just doing martial arts and being involved in something that gives you an understanding of what physical confrontation is really all about.
00:42:25.000It's not this scary thing that every man has to puff his chest up to avoid happening or you go into it completely ignorantly Thinking it's like a movie.
00:42:37.000Like you're gonna sock some guy and that's gonna be the end of it.
00:42:39.000And meanwhile you throw a punch at him and he moves his head and you're like, oh shit, this guy actually knows how to fight.
00:42:48.000A lot of that I think comes from fear and it comes from ignorance.
00:42:51.000It also comes from other ridiculous, these media depictions of what happens when people hit each other.
00:42:55.000One of the things that drives me fucking crazy, and I really wanted to talk to you about this because I wanted to get into depression, is head trauma.
00:43:02.000Like, there's so many goddamn movies where someone hits someone in the head and they fall down, they get up and they rub their head and they're out cold, and then they go out and they fucking have a crazy fist fight with a hundred people or, you know, they make it like they're back to normal.
00:43:17.000Like, they get shut off and they come back to normal and they're fine.
00:43:19.000Or a guy is like, you know, this like great martial artist is in a fight with like 10 other dudes, right?
00:43:26.000And then he's like punching and he's kicking.
00:43:27.000And then he does that thing where he like headbutts like tons of guys, like cracks his skull against the skull of like multiple people in a row and is like in no way affected by it.
00:43:37.000Well, headbutts, it's really a weird thing, but the way to do it correctly, it actually is effective.
00:43:44.000Because you're using this part of your head, your forehead, which is a really hard part, and you smash someone in the nose, and your nose kind of gives in.
00:43:56.000I wish we had a shot of red band just then.
00:43:59.000Well, there's a great video of a woman knocking a guy out in a bar.
00:44:03.000There was some sort of a bar fight, and this guy was involved in a fight with this woman's boyfriend, and the guy grabs the woman, and the woman grabs the guy's shirts and Slams him in the head.
00:45:23.000But yeah, they're finding that soccer players, just the movement of hitting a ball with your head over and over and over and over and over causes mild concussive injuries.
00:45:35.000So yeah, cracking people in the skulls a lot is probably...
00:45:40.000Well, you know, and me, obviously, I come from this background of not just constantly doing it my whole life, but being around it my whole life.
00:45:48.000I've been around so many guys getting hit in the head, and I've seen them from the beginning of their career, and then I see them at the end of their career, and I see a significant decline.
00:45:57.000And how they communicate and I'm sure how they feel.
00:46:01.000They seem like old men when they're in their 40s.
00:46:06.000And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to bring this up.
00:46:08.000My friend Mark Gordon, Dr. Mark Gordon, who's an expert in traumatic brain injury.
00:46:13.000And he works a lot with soldiers and athletes that have...
00:46:17.000Had significant brain trauma and they have a lot of issues with their hormones afterwards.
00:46:24.000The pituitary gland is extremely sensitive and he wrote a piece connecting Robin Williams with depression, not just based on a lot of factors.
00:46:34.000I mean, Robin had a lot of things going on.
00:46:36.000He obviously had Substance abuse issues.
00:46:39.000He obviously had the Parkinson's issue, which was also taking medication for Parkinson's, which has been connected to depression.
00:46:52.000Dr. Gordon's connection was that Robin Williams, having had this major heart valve replacement, which entails many hours of anesthesia, lowered blood pressure, and the literature speaks of post-cardiac surgery depression in over a hundred publications,
00:47:08.000and that the prolonged surgery with low blood pressure, they believe, precipitates or performs A form of Sheehan syndrome, which is the loss of important brain hormones.
00:47:19.000Additionally, there's an increase in reverse T3 and a decrease in T3, which can cause relative hypothyroidism that's also associated with depression.
00:47:28.000And Mark Gordon wrote this whole piece about it, and he's saying that what people have to consider more is like...
00:47:35.000When you take someone into a situation where you're fixing their heart, you also have to realize that there's going to be some adverse effect.
00:47:43.000The whole body's going to react to this.
00:47:44.000It's not just going to be about, look, your heart's fixed.
00:47:48.000His hormones are fucking completely out of whack now.
00:47:51.000And that could have played a factor in this that was ignored.
00:47:54.000Well, and that's something that I think that we've historically had this really weird approach to medicine, which I think is kind of a secondary effect of thinking scientifically.
00:48:06.000And obviously, my background is in neuroscience.
00:48:09.000I worked as a scientist for many years, and I am very much a scientific thinker, and I'm all about the scientific method.
00:48:17.000But I think that we sometimes are at fault when we're a little bit too reductionistic in our views.
00:48:38.000Completely out of them, solve it, and then put it right back in.
00:48:41.000And it doesn't have any effect on anything else in their bodies.
00:48:44.000I mean, you look at medication, right?
00:49:36.000Isn't that, for a lot of people, they would look at you, especially people that don't have any issues with depression, they look at you, obviously, very intelligent, beautiful, young.
00:49:56.000Because a lot of people don't understand the difference between depression and sadness.
00:49:59.000And they don't understand that depression is a biological illness.
00:50:03.000Yeah, they don't think of it, they also don't think of it in terms of like, People look at it in terms of like, well, you've got all these sums.
00:50:09.000Like, look, you've got all these numbers.
00:50:24.000Then you have this extra layer of guilt.
00:50:28.000You have this extra layer of shame, this extra layer of Why the fuck am I still depressed?
00:50:33.000No matter how much success I get, no matter how much money I make, no matter how much people write me letters and say that they love me and whatever, I can't seem to beat this feeling inside of me, this constellation of symptoms, because it's not coming from that.
00:50:53.000I don't suffer from depression, but I have had many friends who do.
00:50:56.000And I've always wondered, because it seems to be that when you go to a doctor and they start treating it, whether they treat it with medication or they try to adjust your diet and prescribe exercise first, that there's no one simple fix.
00:51:39.000It binds to my serotonin receptors in my brain, and it allows me to dump more serotonin into the synapse, the gap between two brain cells, so that I always have more available.
00:51:52.000It basically tells my brain that I need more serotonin, so I make more serotonin available to myself.
00:52:13.000So it binds to this specific receptor in the brain because it's got a similar shape to that.
00:52:18.000There are other things in your body that are similarly shaped.
00:52:21.000And so what ends up happening is, when you take a drug, The specificity of the drug is only based on whether or not the key fits in a lock somewhere in your body.
00:52:31.000But let's say that you had hundreds of thousands, millions of locks available to you and one key, and you started going through, you'd be able to stick that in a bunch of locks.
00:52:39.000Some of them it might even turn, but it would fit in the lock of multiple locks hanging on that wall.
00:52:46.000So what ends up happening is I take this drug, it binds in my brain, it does what it's supposed to do in my brain, but it also maybe does other shit, like makes me really fucking tired.
00:52:56.000Or it makes it so I don't want to have sex as often.
00:53:56.000You can't go, as a doctor, you can't come to me, stick a needle in my spinal cord, take out my cerebrospinal fluid and measure how much serotonin I have in it.
00:54:06.000I wish I could take some sort of a blood test or I could, you know, pee in a cup and then you could analyze that pee and say, you're low on serotonin.
00:54:15.000You need an SSRI. That would be what works for you.
00:54:17.000Because other people's depression comes from problems with dopamine, comes from problems with norepinephrine or some combination of We're good to go.
00:56:10.000This is a natural phenomenon because mice don't have value judgments.
00:56:13.000They're not thinking about this from a religious perspective.
00:56:16.000They're not saying, I don't know, maybe I should stop doing this coke and maybe exercise a little more and that'll give me the same kind of high.
00:56:54.000It's not the shit that comes in the papers.
00:56:56.000Now, that's what has much more carcinogenic properties, but nicotine itself is highly addictive, and that's the molecule that's studied in research.
00:57:14.000So if you smoke, you won't get Parkinson's?
00:57:17.000Well, I wouldn't say that, but there is some evidence in the lab that animals that were given nicotine It had a lower incidence rate of Parkinson's.
00:57:26.000Is it dangerous in the form that people take it as far as gum or things along those lines?
00:58:10.000Are you happy with what you choose to do with your day?
00:58:13.000I had a friend who was, he was on like some serious SSRIs and they changed his life.
00:58:20.000They got him, he quit his business, he quit his job rather, started his own business, got involved in a relationship.
00:58:26.000And then once he got to a really good place, he slowly weaned himself off the antidepressants and now he's great.
00:58:31.000Yeah, and that happens to a lot of people.
00:58:32.000And so I think that there's different...
00:58:34.000What we have to understand, too, is, of course, all psychiatric disorders are spectrum disorders, right?
00:58:39.000There's really extreme examples, and there's barely any examples.
00:58:42.000And if anybody who's ever taken a psych course or who's studied, you know, if you were a psych major in college, you know that as you studied the DSM-IV, which is like, it's called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual that they use in psychiatry and psychology...
00:58:54.000It's basically the big bible of all the things you can be diagnosed with.
00:58:57.000The more you study it, the more you're like, I have that.
00:59:10.000It's only once it is sufficiently detrimental to your life that it affects your relationships, it affects your ability to work, it affects your health, whatever the case may be.
00:59:19.000And usually within the DSM, there may be like eight things, and it's like you have to have five out of these eight things.
00:59:24.000And so anybody can read it and go, oh, I've felt depression before, but what they don't realize is there is a difference between depression...
00:59:58.000This cascade of awfulness, that's a really common one.
01:00:01.000You know, family member dies, you have a stillborn, or you have an abortion, or you have a baby, a healthy baby.
01:00:08.000Postpartum depression is incredibly common.
01:00:11.000And in that case, that's much more common that people can take meds, they can do all these things, and once they get back to where they were before that horrible life event...
01:00:32.000Is the different reactions that different people have to different medication, is it because their depression has a different source or is it just a biodiversity thing?
01:00:42.000I think it's more of a biodiversity thing than a source thing.
01:00:46.000So depression is both when you think about it.
01:00:49.000Well, brain and mind are the same thing.
01:00:50.000You know, most modern neuroscientists say that brain and mind are two sides of the same coin, that mind is just an emergent property of brain.
01:00:58.000They don't think that you can, like, heal the mind and it has no effect on the brain because it's the same fucking thing.
01:01:04.000So there are, you know, some people's depression comes from the fact that their dopamine levels are not healthy or their norepinephrine levels are not healthy or whatever the fuck.
01:01:14.000But I think the common view of depression now is that there's some sort of biological difference in your brain.
01:01:21.000And oftentimes that's either caused or it develops out of childhood or early life experiences.
01:01:31.000Where, you know, you have some sort of trauma or you have some sort of development, you have some sort of, you know, interaction with family, whatever the case may be.
01:01:39.000And it doesn't have to be, you know, you were molested as a child.
01:01:42.000It can literally just be like you didn't feel loved or whatever the case may be.
01:01:48.000And you've got this brain difference combined with this emotional experience.
01:01:56.000And what ends up happening, because when you're very young, your brain is very plastic.
01:02:00.000So when you're very young, you're learning skills that are going to last you the rest of your life, and you're actually building your brain architecture.
01:02:06.000Certain neurons are connecting and disconnecting and reconnecting and pruning out.
01:02:10.000The tree, the beautiful tree that is all of the cells in your brain, is getting pruned when you're young.
01:02:14.000And if you're depressed when you're young, and you're experiencing those kinds of things when you're young, you're going to prune a tree that's prone to depression as you age because you're going to keep reinforcing those neuronal connections.
01:02:30.000Meds in and of themselves are never going to get you in a place where your depression is really well managed.
01:02:35.000It's going to get you in a place where therapy is going to be working better for you.
01:02:40.000Meds are going to be an immediate and necessary interventional strategy so that you're not crying or you're not trying to kill yourself or you're not whatever your symptoms of depression.
01:02:51.000So you can actually fucking get out of bed to work on yourself.
01:03:33.000Okay, let's try one with lower levels of estrogen or progesterone or let's try the ring or the Depo-Provera shot or maybe you need an IUD drug.
01:03:41.000It took me multiple times to find the right drug.
01:03:43.000And I think it's the same thing with therapy.
01:03:45.000I think it's the same thing with psychiatric medicines.
01:03:47.000We're not monolithic, so the same combination isn't going to work for everybody.
01:03:51.000And the truth is, if that makes you afraid of modern medicine or if it makes you think that psychiatry is woo or something like that, it's the same thing as cancer.
01:04:02.000In many ways, there's so many parallels.
01:04:07.000If I got diagnosed with breast cancer and you got diagnosed with breast cancer and we both went in with our diagnosis the same day, our oncologist would give us different treatments because we would have different genetic markers.
01:04:19.000We would respond differently to different types of chemotherapy.
01:06:27.000Like, that the doctor, the female doctor, would have to deal with, especially if he was an attractive female doctor, would have to deal with the dude.
01:07:12.000I mean, this is a minor story, but when I first came to California, I didn't have any friends, came here from New York, and I wasn't happy.
01:07:20.000I wasn't happy because I didn't enjoy acting, I didn't enjoy being around actors, and I didn't have any friends.
01:07:26.000And I didn't have a girlfriend, didn't have any dates, and I got a hug from this girl on the set.
01:07:32.000And I'll never forget that feeling of that hug because it wasn't like a sexual hug.
01:08:24.000That our sexual needs are much more affiliative and emotional, and there is some physiological basis for female sexual need, don't get me wrong.
01:08:35.000Like, any girl can tell you that she's had this I'm not craving this passionate feeling where she's like, I just need to come or I just need to have sex with somebody.
01:08:46.000But with men, there's literally a backup of fluid that you have to release.
01:08:51.000That's a very different physiological thing than women.
01:08:54.000And again, that goes back to testosterone.
01:08:56.000So the same thing as you were saying, MMA can be really helpful for clearing the mind and for lowering your base levels of aggression.
01:09:42.000We talk about the little head and people, guys thinking with that head or whatever.
01:09:45.000There is a really big neuronal link there.
01:09:48.000There are hormones that affect your dick the same way they affect your brain.
01:09:54.000And so you can't pretend, again, that your cock is somehow completely disconnected from your emotions, from your feelings.
01:10:02.000Well, if you looked at it, and also if you looked at it objectively, if you looked at the human beings on this planet as like a giant mathematical equation, you would say, okay, why are there so fucking many of them?
01:10:13.000Well, because there's this intense need to breed.
01:10:16.000And this intense need to breed was back when it was really difficult to stay alive.
01:10:20.000We are essentially the same organism that used to get cut down by each other, by animals, predators, natural illnesses, disease, injuries.
01:10:29.000We've only been around for 200,000 years in our current form.
01:10:34.000So before 200,000 years ago, we're talking about something that was different enough from us, evolutionarily speaking, to be a different species.
01:11:03.000And again, when you also talk about the biodiversity, there's some folks that are just more fucking primitive today or more animalistic or more kinetic.
01:11:13.000And just the range is so massive when we talk about what is, quote, normal and what is hyper and what is hypo.
01:11:24.000And that's why it's cool to see when people actually...
01:11:29.000Manage to partner up or whatever sexual or emotional partnerships make sense for them, whether they're monogamous or polygamous, whether they're gay, straight, somewhere in between.
01:11:43.000It's so cool when you see people that make it work because they're on the same page when there's so many differences that exist out there.
01:11:51.000When two people go, you're awesome, or three or four, whatever, and they go, you're awesome, I'm into you, we're into the same stuff, we abide by the same rules, we have the same sexual proclivities, and it works?
01:12:25.000It's like, how many people truly have their shit together to the point where anybody would want to be with them?
01:12:30.000And so many people are so goddamn codependent and so fucked up that they can't attract anyone because their own biology, their psychology, the mix that makes them a person is just so chaotic.
01:12:41.000You can't expect to be happy in a relationship because you're not happy alone.
01:12:45.000Yeah, there has to be equity in a relationship.
01:12:47.000You can't be like a vampire in a relationship.
01:12:50.000You have to offer somebody just as much as you get from them.
01:12:53.000And you have to be, like you said, very standalone.
01:12:56.000I mean, that's a common theme for me in therapy is this conversation about If I am in a relationship, feeling very confident and comfortable because I have like an insane fear of commitment.
01:13:09.000Because I'm so used to thinking about a relationship as if it's a prison sentence.
01:13:14.000And I've been really relearning what it means to be in a relationship with my therapist.
01:13:21.000And how the idea of living for now is a healthier way to look at life.
01:13:28.000Like I don't have to think about hardcore future kinds of conversations.
01:13:33.000Like if I'm comfortable with myself right now and I can be comfortable with a partner right now and not have all this like Sense of intense obligation.
01:13:43.000That's where that codependent stuff comes from.
01:13:46.000And that's what I think is so incredibly unhealthy in a relationship.
01:13:50.000It's like, I'm going to bring my best self to the table, and hopefully I'll find a partner that does the same thing, instead of needing a partner, which is a common motivation for people to get in relationships.
01:14:29.000The difference between that and someone who's gone years without a relationship that really worked and you finally have one that works and you fuck it up because you're too goddamn clingy and too crazy.
01:14:41.000Why aren't you texting me back immediately?
01:14:42.000And like that kind of shit is what makes me run out the door.
01:14:45.000That's what I'm talking about when I talk about my quote-unquote fear of commitment.
01:14:48.000What it really is is it's an intense feeling of stress when I feel obligated to somebody else.
01:14:57.000So, in the healthiest relationships I've been in, they're the relationships where there's not a lot of jealousy, not a lot of possession, not a lot of that checking in.
01:18:37.000I was very lucky to have my best friend at the time, Kelly, was still living in Dallas, where I grew up, and kind of worked with her and hooked her up with a job working with Bill.
01:18:48.000She ended up becoming his wardrobe stylist, and she still does that to this day, which is really amazing.
01:18:55.000She always wanted to come to LA, and now she's this incredible celebrity stylist and has this great job in And so I was very lucky when she first came out maybe six months later because we got an apartment together and I finally had somebody, but I just had her.
01:19:08.000And it took probably until just a couple of years ago, so now that's maybe been five years out, before I met this group of friends that we affectionately call each other the Nerd Brigade.
01:20:09.000That's where I did my undergrad and my master's at the University of North Texas.
01:20:12.000And then, yeah, I was in New York City, but I was living in Queens, specifically in Forest Hills, because I would take the bus to Flushing every day to Queens College.
01:20:23.000At the City University of New York Graduate Center, but Queens College was my campus.
01:20:28.000And a lot of my friends live in Pasadena still, which is very much a college town because they were Caltech students and now they're working there or some of them are still taking courses.
01:20:37.000But I saw, I mean, Brian just shook his head.
01:20:40.000Like, LA, it's hard to meet smart people in this city.
01:20:43.000It's so full of fucking vapid people and people who will...
01:23:02.000I didn't have that dynamic personality that all of the reality TV stars have where they're like, I'm going to win this competition because I'm the best.
01:23:10.000I just walked up and I was like, are you ready for me to sing?
01:25:50.000And then it was the same experience that I've heard over and over and over from people where finally they get on the meds that are right for them and they calibrate to their dosage and maybe they've been on it for about two months and they just have this epiphany of like, why the fuck did I wait so long?
01:26:05.000I could have felt like this my whole life.
01:26:52.000And that's just very hard for people to understand.
01:26:55.000And so what you end up doing is carrying around a lot of guilt and shame and a lot of feelings like, I'm not good enough, I can't will myself out of this if I just think more positively.
01:29:06.000I think in some ways it's good when high-functioning people come out and talk about their illnesses, because then people who are actually experiencing things like Loss of employment, loss of a loved one, whatever, or who have had a bad go of it for other reasons or like, even you,
01:29:21.000like you had said before, like even you, but you're pretty or but you're successful, you're whatever.
01:29:27.000Well, if you could have that, then, of course, it's not weird that I have, you know, it's like it's a good thing for people to be able to see that they're not alone like that.
01:29:37.000And it's also there's a bunch of people that attribute other people's depression really irresponsibly to a bunch of different things.
01:29:46.000They'll say like, oh, I had a guy on the podcast last week that was saying that Robin Williams killed himself because his ex-wives took all his money.
01:31:08.000I'll be in treatment the rest of my life.
01:31:10.000Do you believe, as a person who's a neuroscientist, is it possible that they could eventually come up with something that balances your brain out instead of just adding something to your neurochemistry, which sort of enhances your serotonin levels, but rather something where they can get it at a genetic level?
01:31:29.000We're starting to see major improvements in cancer biology with personal genomic medicine.
01:31:36.000My fear with genomic medicine is only, not to put a dark cloud on it because I think that it has amazing prospects, my fear is that it's going to further increase the kind of class divide where you've got people who are sick because sickness strikes rich and poor the same.
01:31:54.000But for some reason, we are a very class-based system and I think that you're going to see that rich people get those kinds of treatments and poor people don't.
01:32:51.000Yes, I do think that time always tells, and that hopefully, eventually, that kind of stuff trickles down.
01:32:58.000But I wish it didn't have to trickle down.
01:32:59.000I wish medication, I wish health and wellness were a more egalitarian enterprise.
01:33:07.000One of the biggest problems, I think, with the structure of American government and being such a capitalist society, which I'm all about capitalism, don't get me wrong.
01:33:15.000I think we need to be a socialist-capitalist blend just like we are.
01:33:19.000We have a lot of socialist systems in our country.
01:33:32.000The argument is obviously that people who work harder, are more ambitious, become better at it, should be rewarded for that, and that's what's going to motivate them to work harder and be the best heart surgeon, to be the best brain doctor, to be the best guy who fixes bones, whatever it is.
01:33:48.000I just feel like by the time you're a brain surgeon and you're a licensed brain surgeon, you're a fucking good brain surgeon.
01:33:53.000You don't get through a 10-year residency.
01:33:56.000You get your surgical degree and then you have a 10-year residency before you become a neurosurgeon.
01:34:01.000You don't get through that and you're a subpar neurosurgeon.
01:34:05.000You're a fucking incredible neurosurgeon.
01:34:07.000But aren't there the best of the best?
01:34:09.000Of course there's the best of the best.
01:34:10.000And if those people want to do private practice on top of it, that's fine.
01:34:14.000Private practice on top of the socialized medicine?
01:34:17.000Yeah, there has to be a National Health Service.
01:34:46.000And a lot of times they say that's what drives prices down, is that you compete and prices get better and then you've, you know, the best, whatever.
01:34:54.000But what ends up happening when you have for-profit healthcare is that illness is incentivized, wellness is not.
01:35:05.000People make more money the sicker you get.
01:35:08.000People make more money the more procedures you have to get.
01:35:12.000People make more money the longer you stay in the hospital.
01:35:15.000I'm not saying there's some grand conspiracy to keep people sick, but if you've got an industry like the insurance and pharmaceutical and for-profit hospital industry where the profit comes from sickness, where is the incentive to get people well?
01:35:34.000I'm not saying that doctors aren't very noble people.
01:36:34.000But people who do the right thing, who motivate themselves to become the best orthopedic surgeon and treat the Lakers and fix all their knee issues and these people rise to the occasion, shouldn't they be rewarded for that?
01:37:10.000So the fact that it even trickles down to the people who took a Hippocratic oath, to the people who we think of as being the most noble of the most noble of citizens in this country, if it even trickles down to them, how is it going to In fact, somebody who's pushing paper at the insurance company,
01:37:26.000where you're just a number on a piece of paper, you're just a statistic, and you're a bottom line.
01:37:32.000So is the answer to cut out that aspect of it, that the insurance company is the issue, and that really socialized medicine would be compensating the doctors?
01:37:41.000And that the doctors would still be potentially able to rise above the others?
01:37:47.000My answer is the same, I think, as any other industrialized Western nation.
01:37:52.000We're the only industrialized Western nation that doesn't have national health care.
01:37:55.000So what ends up happening is you have a public option.
01:37:59.000You have the option to have A healthcare system that is free and available to you.
01:38:06.000And it has basic levels of treatment and care for anything that could go wrong with you.
01:38:11.000And there are doctors you can see and there are hospitals you can go to.
01:38:14.000If you want to go private, it's the same way that we have education in this country.
01:38:51.000Well, it's certainly a problem in how we view and what we think about in terms of where our money should go.
01:38:58.000Like, if we had privatized police force and privatized fire, like every time your house was on fire, you had to pay someone to come and fix the issue and put the fire out.
01:39:13.000Yeah, you can find stories online of people living in regions where they have a privatized fire service, like it's a four-pay fire service, and people's houses have burned down because they can't afford to put it out.
01:39:26.000So this is a weird area, like some rural area.
01:40:15.000Who's obviously going to be subject to much more infection, much more disease because they're living in squalor.
01:40:21.000If they can go to the doctor on a regular basis and get a checkup, they're not going to be then going to the doctor later to get some multi-thousand dollar procedure that Hippocratic Oath, they have to do this.
01:40:33.000If somebody goes into and their fucking arm is hanging off, no doctor is going to be like, I can't reattach your arm, you're just going to die.
01:40:39.000They're going to do it, they're going to bill these people, and they're never going to fucking pay their bills because they can't afford to.
01:40:44.000And then you and I are going to absorb that cost in the money that we're paying for our insurance.
01:40:49.000Well, doesn't that go back when you're talking about people living in squalor?
01:40:52.000That goes back to the mental illness issue as well.
01:41:28.000They were taking these people that were in mental institutions, and they changed the standards of what you needed to keep these people in these facilities, and they would just release them on the streets?
01:42:57.000But I also know that as a nation, we're only as strong as the weakest amongst us.
01:43:01.000And there are certain people to whom those types of standards just can't apply because they're ill.
01:43:09.000Well, it's a spectrum issue, isn't it?
01:43:11.000I mean, there's so many variables that when people like to look at these issues and look at them in a black and white term, I'm a liberal, so I think this.
01:43:35.000You're letting somebody else think for you.
01:43:37.000I get a lot of hate when I come on your podcast, but also when I go on The Young Turks, anytime I talk about GM foods or genetically modified crops in any way.
01:43:45.000Because what ends up happening is people look at me and they go, oh, you're a liberal.
01:44:19.000That genetic modification in and of itself is not only not dangerous, but can also be a huge boon.
01:44:25.000It can be really helpful for health and human safety across, especially in lower income and globalized areas where they're not very industrialized.
01:44:36.000The second problem is that people have a really hard time with the concept of synecdoche, this idea of, you know, that's a literary term for like looking at the part for the whole or the whole for the part.
01:44:53.000That's a company that utilizes GM technology.
01:44:56.000And yes, recently I got offered a branded entertainment job with Monsanto and I had to turn it down.
01:45:01.000And the reason I turned it down was not necessarily because I really disagree with their practices, even though I do fucking disagree with their practices.
01:45:08.000Like, let's be honest, there are a lot of Monsanto things that make me mad.
01:45:14.000But the reason I had to turn down this brand to deal is because I knew that if I ever took a dime from a company like Monsanto, my ability as a journalist to talk about GM crops from a very neutral perspective would be out the window.
01:45:29.000Nobody would ever take me seriously again.
01:45:31.000So it's the same thing with big pharma.
01:45:35.000People go like, oh, big pharma's evil.
01:45:41.000It's like you've got to be able to look at these things in a nuanced way and understand that there are problems and there are evils, but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater and you can't say, oh, all modern medicine is terrible because Pfizer is making money on the backs of poor people.
01:45:57.000It's like, yeah, that's fucked up about Pfizer, but that doesn't mean modern medicine is terrible.
01:46:02.000Those are two totally different conversations.
01:46:04.000It's also people, when they start talking about genetically modified foods, one of the things that they have to take into consideration is that almost everything you eat is genetically modified.
01:46:12.000When you go to the grocery store, if you're getting corn, if you're getting apples, if you're getting tomatoes, stop thinking that just because it's organic that it's not genetically modified.
01:46:21.000The corn that you eat today has no resemblance to the original corn.
01:46:54.000They go into the genome and they go, okay, this corn tends to die readily when the temperature gets above 101. Well, the climate is changing.
01:47:02.000It's getting hotter and hotter where they farm it.
01:47:04.000So we're going to tinker with the genome and we're going to delete a gene or insert a gene or move the genes around in some way so that this corn is now drought resistant.
01:47:14.000Change the genome, produce a new corn crop, and then continue to breed that corn crop.
01:47:19.000And that is really the goal and generally the motivation behind GM crops.
01:47:24.000It's to make them withstand things like droughts or pests or whatever so that they can live hardier and feed more people in that way.
01:47:54.000This is why a lot of scientists get pissed off about all the GM hysteria because they're like, okay, if I were to take this random corn crop and that random corn crop and breed them, I'm shuffling like 30,000 genes.
01:48:08.000If I were to go in targeted and change three genes that only affect the ability for it to withstand a higher temperature, it's a much more specific and targeted way to change this plant.
01:48:54.000You know what, as somebody, as a person who has never studied lab science, to try and make sense of all the bullshit in the media, and to be reading articles that were written by journalists who have never studied lab science, how are you expected to keep things straight?
01:49:12.000That's why I do what I do for a living.
01:49:14.000I'm a science communicator and my job is to look at research that exists and to try and translate that.
01:50:01.000The things that we find salient are the things that raise the hairs on the backs of our necks.
01:50:06.000And what that ends up breeding is It's just a media landscape of fear-mongering and screaming matches and worst-case scenario conversations, which I don't think is very helpful for anybody.
01:50:20.000It's also the reality of the absorption of information, the people's ability to take in.
01:50:25.000How much time do you have Most people work eight-plus hours a day, plus commuting, plus family, plus whatever hobbies you might have.
01:50:32.000And they have to be an expert about whatever they do for a living.
01:50:43.000And if you absorb that information and that is what you preach, that's your mantra now, it's very difficult to be open-minded and then sort of accept other ideas.
01:50:51.000That contradict those original ideas that you've been telling everybody about.
01:50:55.000And the truth is, it's hard to figure out who to trust, especially in a landscape like this.
01:51:02.000I have no intention, as a science communicator, that the work that I do is going to necessarily promote a lot of people to go off and become scientists themselves.
01:51:14.000I mean, hopefully young children or some teens, people who are in that...
01:51:17.000In that age group and who are interested, maybe they'll be influenced a little bit about some of the work that I do.
01:51:22.000But more than that, I want to see a higher level of scientific literacy in this country.
01:51:29.000All that means is that we think more with our brains and less with our emotions and less with that Stephen Colbert truthiness.
01:51:39.000We've got to get away from truthiness.
01:51:41.000Just because something feels right doesn't necessarily mean that it is right.
01:53:11.000And the other thing that you brought up there about political, about financial, all the different motivations, all the different things, the variables, that's also stuff that you have to try to pay attention to and squeeze into your head.
01:53:46.000And I think that this is why we, as the listeners of the Joe Rogan experience, the listeners of Talk Nerdy with Cara Santa Maria, the people who are really involved in the next movement of...
01:54:00.000It is our responsibility to continue to support these kinds of programs and to continue to speak up and become engaged and involved because if we're not happy with the way that traditional media is handling things because they're playing to the ratings and they're playing to the lowest common denominator.
01:55:12.000And we're all on that kind of same team to be that counterculture and to...
01:55:16.000To offer opinions, but also offer facts that are based in evidence, that are based in reason, that aren't based in some sort of corporate interest, or because some producer is in that fucking thing in my ear telling me that I have to do or say or act like somebody that I'm not.
01:55:32.000I would love to talk to you about this to the end of time, and I would love to not tell you that you're already past the time you were supposed to leave.
01:55:38.000You know what's so funny, too, is the reason I have to leave, and I'm so sorry, you guys, is because I have therapy at 3, and I've got to make it all the way across town to see my therapist.
01:56:29.000Yeah, I'm going to have a new style coming out soon and also I'm going to be offering soon handmade mugs from a really amazing potter friend of mine.