The Joe Rogan Experience - August 26, 2014


Joe Rogan Experience #540 - Steven Rinella


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 58 minutes

Words per Minute

185.56613

Word Count

33,105

Sentence Count

2,920

Misogynist Sentences

70

Hate Speech Sentences

38


Summary

In this episode, I talk about the benefits of Blue Apron and how you can get your first two meals for free by using the code ROGAN for 20% off your first order before September 1st. Plus, I give you some tips on how to keep your balls clean for 7 years, and why you should get a real pair of underwear that actually works. And I also talk about how you should never go back to wearing the same thing you were wearing 7 years ago, because it's just not as comfortable anymore. Subscribe to my new podcast, "Rogan's Booty Call," wherever you get your stuff, and don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and tell a friend about this podcast so they can also get 20% on their first order of meals, too! Thanks to our sponsor, MeUndies! Subscribe, rate, and review to stay up to date with what's going on in the world of food and culture! Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Music by Ian Dorsch and the rest of the crew at The Good Mythical Crew. This episode was produced by Riley Bray, and edited by Alex Blumberg, and our theme music is by Bobby Lord, and additional music was made by Mark Phillips, and mixed by Matthew Bolland, and the mixing and mastering by Haley Shaw, and Bobby Lord. , and our mixing and mixing by Haley, and Rachel Ward, and music production by Matthew Kuchta, and Alex, and all other mixing and editing by Matthew, and alyssa, and finally weeding, and so much more. . , , we hope you enjoy this episode. Thank you so much for all the love and support and support us with your feedback, and your feedback is so much love and appreciation and support is so appreciated. Thank you for all your support and your support, we really appreciate it, it really means so much so much, it means we can help us make this podcast more than just a little bit more than that we can be a little more than halfway through the world can feel like that can do it. - thank you, thank you. -- Thank you, you're amazing, you really do it, you'll get a chance to help us out, we can do more of it, and we appreciate you, more than you can do that.


Transcript

00:00:21.000 We're good to go.
00:00:32.000 For excellent meals, along with detailed instructions, recipe instructions, with photographs.
00:00:38.000 So it's like totally idiot-proof.
00:00:41.000 I've cooked a bunch of different stuff now.
00:00:44.000 I made these awesome chicken skewers the other day, and these stuffed peppers.
00:00:49.000 And they were like a spicy pepper, too.
00:00:51.000 It was like this bell pepper, but it was kind of spicy.
00:00:54.000 Really good, like, interesting Mexican ingredients in it.
00:00:57.000 So what I'm getting at is...
00:00:59.000 It's not bland food.
00:01:01.000 It's healthy.
00:01:02.000 They range between 500 and 700 calories per serving.
00:01:05.000 But you would not guess that.
00:01:07.000 You would think that it would probably be more than that.
00:01:09.000 They're really well designed and they're done by excellent chefs and really nutritionally sound too.
00:01:16.000 Very healthy, and shipping is free, and I'm a big fan of this.
00:01:22.000 I really love it.
00:01:22.000 Short rib burgers on pretzel buns, Kung Pao chicken tacos.
00:01:26.000 You can try it out, your first two meals for free, by going to blueapron.com slash rogan.
00:01:33.000 That's blueapron.com slash rogan for your first two meals for free.
00:01:39.000 Like, I'm going to give you some examples.
00:01:42.000 Mexican-style turkey burgers.
00:01:44.000 Cod with pickled grapes and summer succotash.
00:01:48.000 Shaking beef with jasmine lime rice.
00:01:51.000 I don't know what shaking beef is, but I bet it's fucking delicious.
00:01:55.000 Chicken with candied pistachios and snow pea radish saute.
00:02:00.000 Really good stuff, like interesting stuff.
00:02:03.000 Indian-style salmon with tomato chutney and cranberry bean stew.
00:02:08.000 Almost like something Steve Rinella might cook on Meat Eater, ladies and gentlemen.
00:02:13.000 It's great stuff.
00:02:14.000 And like I said, first two meals for free.
00:02:16.000 Give it a shot.
00:02:17.000 Blueapron.com slash Rogan.
00:02:18.000 I stand by them.
00:02:19.000 I use it every week.
00:02:20.000 I actually got, they gave me a phone call today that I got one that's at my box today.
00:02:27.000 So I'll be eating some Blue Apron tonight.
00:02:31.000 So give it a shot.
00:02:32.000 BlueApron.com and use the code word BlueApron.com slash Rogan.
00:02:39.000 That's what you have to do to get your first two meals for free.
00:02:44.000 So that's BlueApron.com slash Rogan.
00:02:48.000 And enjoy.
00:02:49.000 We're also brought to you by MeUndies.
00:02:52.000 Now, I'm a guy that I usually get underwear.
00:02:52.000 MeUndies.
00:02:55.000 I just buy underwear.
00:02:56.000 I would buy them online in bulk.
00:02:58.000 I'd buy 24 packs of underwear from Amazon.com or something like that.
00:03:02.000 And they're always cheap underwear.
00:03:04.000 But MeUndies started sending me these underwear that they make a couple weeks ago.
00:03:08.000 And they're way better.
00:03:10.000 They just feel better.
00:03:11.000 They're looser and more comfortable.
00:03:13.000 I don't like shopping.
00:03:14.000 I don't like to go places and...
00:03:17.000 I don't have any fucking time, man.
00:03:19.000 I don't have the time to go and pick out underwear.
00:03:21.000 So if I was shopping and I was passing the underwear thing, I would just reach and grab one and throw it in there.
00:03:27.000 I wouldn't think at all about it.
00:03:28.000 But with me undies, you can get really good underwear delivered to you.
00:03:34.000 Now, this is where it's fucked up.
00:03:35.000 A recent survey showed that men kept their underwear for an average of seven years.
00:03:42.000 Just think...
00:03:43.000 I mean, I don't know about you, but when I'm alone, I do not hold back on any farts, okay?
00:03:48.000 I'm not scared of my own farts.
00:03:49.000 I cut them loose.
00:03:50.000 So, seven years of filtering farts.
00:03:52.000 I just do not trust any washing machine to really do a good job enough to comfortably set my balls after seven years and that kind of a filter.
00:04:04.000 So get rid of your fucking underwear and get some real underwear.
00:04:07.000 That's my point.
00:04:08.000 Go to MeUndies.com.
00:04:10.000 They have excellent underwear that feel great and they even pull moisture away from your body.
00:04:16.000 So keep your balls nice and smooth and cool.
00:04:21.000 MeUndies has the most comfortable underwear you have ever tried.
00:04:24.000 They fit perfectly.
00:04:25.000 They don't ride up on you.
00:04:27.000 And again, they literally pull moisture away from your skin so you're cool all day long.
00:04:31.000 Now that I've worn these underwear, I just got a new box in.
00:04:34.000 They just sent them to me too.
00:04:36.000 Now that I've worn them, I'll never go back.
00:04:38.000 MeUndies is my favorite underwear for sure.
00:04:40.000 And if you go to MeUndies.com Forward slash Rogan.
00:04:43.000 Before September 1st, you can get 20% off your first order.
00:04:47.000 That's MeUndies.com forward slash Rogan for 20% off your first order if you go there before September 1st.
00:04:56.000 I guarantee you're going to be happy with them.
00:04:57.000 They guarantee you're going to be happy with them.
00:04:59.000 Trust me, once you feel MeUndies, feel the difference between a real good pair of underwear.
00:05:04.000 Just invest.
00:05:06.000 Invest in the covers of your balls and your dick, ladies and gentlemen.
00:05:09.000 That ad works so good, I'm on their website right now.
00:05:11.000 Are you?
00:05:12.000 You are!
00:05:13.000 He literally is!
00:05:14.000 That phone is pretty dope, isn't it?
00:05:16.000 I just haven't done...
00:05:17.000 I haven't really made...
00:05:18.000 I've been neglecting...
00:05:20.000 Not that I don't buy new underwear, but I haven't had a technological jump in underwear for so long.
00:05:27.000 Yeah, I haven't either.
00:05:28.000 You know, one of the things I learned from you, from hanging out with you, is the power of wool.
00:05:32.000 And I've been trying to find...
00:05:34.000 Yeah, I've been trying to find good wool socks, like athletic socks.
00:05:34.000 Merino wool.
00:05:38.000 Do they have them?
00:05:39.000 They do.
00:05:40.000 They have Merino blend.
00:05:41.000 You make it like a thinner Merino blend sock.
00:05:43.000 Yeah.
00:05:43.000 They have them.
00:05:44.000 Like athletic socks.
00:05:46.000 Well, I don't know...
00:05:47.000 I don't know if they qualify them as athletic.
00:05:50.000 I've never seen one that's meant for going to the gym.
00:05:53.000 They're always kind of meant for, they'll call them light hiking.
00:05:55.000 Right, okay.
00:05:55.000 That's what I need, some light hiking wool.
00:05:57.000 It seems like that's what you should have, right?
00:06:00.000 It would seem.
00:06:01.000 I mean, that's all I wear now.
00:06:02.000 It's the best for hunting.
00:06:04.000 But I'm still stuck in the ice ages, or what do you call it, the stone ages on undies, man.
00:06:08.000 But First Light, they make a merino wool boxer that people love.
00:06:14.000 Yeah, I would imagine.
00:06:15.000 First Light's great.
00:06:17.000 That's L-I-T-E? Is it L-I-T-E? L-I-T-E, yeah.
00:06:19.000 Firstlight.com.
00:06:20.000 Yeah, the merino wool boxer.
00:06:21.000 But for reasons I don't, I could tell you about them.
00:06:25.000 I need something that's nice, and I wear a nice, tight-fitting pair of underwear.
00:06:29.000 Me too.
00:06:30.000 Yeah, I don't want my balls bouncing around.
00:06:31.000 Especially when it's hot and humid.
00:06:32.000 Mm-hmm.
00:06:33.000 That's what I'm saying.
00:06:34.000 And last but not least, we're brought to you by Ting.
00:06:37.000 If you go to rogan.ting.com, you can understand what Ting is all about.
00:06:41.000 Ting is a cell phone company that uses a Sprint backbone.
00:06:44.000 And they sell phones.
00:06:45.000 You don't lease a phone from them.
00:06:47.000 So if you cancel, you're done.
00:06:50.000 If you decide to, you know, you no longer want to use Ting, you own that phone.
00:06:55.000 That's yours.
00:06:56.000 And they have no termination fees, no contracts.
00:06:59.000 All the bullshit that's usually connected to cell phones, they don't have any of that with Ting.
00:07:03.000 What Ting does is they decided to...
00:07:06.000 Rent time on the Sprint backbone, so you're using Sprint service, but they do it their way.
00:07:11.000 And their way is definitely going to save you money.
00:07:13.000 98% of people would save money with Ting.
00:07:16.000 I use Ting.
00:07:17.000 Ting is the official cell phone of this podcast.
00:07:21.000 I just got my newest one recently, and I fucking love it.
00:07:25.000 It's the Samsung Galaxy S4. It's a little smaller than the one you got, this one right here.
00:07:31.000 Yep.
00:07:32.000 What do you got, the Note?
00:07:33.000 Yeah, and my new MeUndies look good on there, man.
00:07:36.000 The Note is pretty dope.
00:07:37.000 But what I like about this, it has a built-in heart monitor right there.
00:07:42.000 It's a pulse detector.
00:07:44.000 It finds out what your heart rate is.
00:07:46.000 Is that right?
00:07:46.000 You just put your finger on it?
00:07:47.000 Yeah, put your finger on it, and it has apps that go along with it.
00:07:50.000 And it's also waterproof.
00:07:51.000 That's one of the reasons why I got it.
00:07:53.000 Or water-resistant, I should say.
00:07:55.000 See this little tab?
00:07:56.000 This tab shuts down, and boom.
00:07:58.000 And that was sent to me by Ting.
00:07:59.000 This is the official cell phone of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast.
00:08:03.000 What they do is, this is one of the reasons why you save money, is a lot of companies, like if you...
00:08:09.000 If you get a plan, like get 100 minutes a month, if you use 80 of those minutes, you don't get any credit for those 20 minutes.
00:08:15.000 If you use 120 minutes, they charge you extra.
00:08:17.000 You get like an overage fee.
00:08:19.000 Ting has none of that.
00:08:20.000 You only use what you pay for.
00:08:22.000 And 98% of people would save money with Ting.
00:08:25.000 That's a real figure.
00:08:26.000 I have had no one who's used Ting that has not told me it's a way better service as far as saving money.
00:08:32.000 And again, you're using Sprint, so it's not like some rinky-dink cell phone service where you're not going to get good coverage.
00:08:37.000 $21 is the average monthly bill per device for Ting customers.
00:08:43.000 And they have, if you go to the shop at rogan.ting.com, There are all sorts of different cell phones to choose from.
00:08:50.000 From the really cheap, you can get like a wonky-ass little tiny smartphone like the HTC Evo 4G. It's $49.
00:08:58.000 You can even get a flip phone.
00:09:00.000 They still sell flip phones.
00:09:01.000 Samsung M400. $72.
00:09:04.000 Little flip phone.
00:09:05.000 Or you can get an Apple iPhone.
00:09:08.000 And they have the full range.
00:09:09.000 You can get like an iPhone 4. If you're like, I want an iPhone, but I don't need the latest shit.
00:09:13.000 Just give me something cheap.
00:09:14.000 You get that for $95.
00:09:16.000 Or you can go all the way up and get the latest and greatest, like the Samsung Galaxy S4 or S5, the Galaxy Note, which is the Note 3. They have that for sale as well.
00:09:29.000 They have all the latest and greatest Android devices.
00:09:31.000 So go to rogan.ting.com and you'll save $25 off of those.
00:09:35.000 Alright, we're done with commercials!
00:09:38.000 Steve Rinella is here, ladies and gentlemen.
00:09:39.000 We're going to get down to business.
00:09:41.000 We're going to talk.
00:09:42.000 Not even business.
00:09:43.000 More like bullshit.
00:09:44.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:09:47.000 Train by day.
00:09:48.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night.
00:09:49.000 All day.
00:09:53.000 Brian Cowan was going to try to make it here today.
00:09:56.000 Oh, really?
00:09:56.000 But he had some podcasts he scheduled in advance.
00:09:59.000 I tried to get him to cancel, but he couldn't.
00:10:00.000 Oh, that's too bad.
00:10:01.000 But he's very excited to come with us to Alaska, and that should be a nice, silly trip.
00:10:04.000 Man, I'm excited about that trip.
00:10:07.000 It really is.
00:10:08.000 When you get up into that, when I say that, when you get up into the alpine zone, like above Timberline in southeast Alaska, it really, like, you know...
00:10:20.000 It's cooler looking than the Ewok forest.
00:10:24.000 It's just amazing.
00:10:25.000 You go from old growth stuff where the three of us could all stand around It joined hand to hand, and you couldn't reach around these trees, you know?
00:10:34.000 And you climb a little higher, and it's like, boom!
00:10:34.000 Wow.
00:10:36.000 It's just like wide open, and there's really nothing like it.
00:10:41.000 I mean, you can't fathom the beauty of it, you know?
00:10:44.000 Well, I've seen it on your show.
00:10:45.000 This is the same place where you went hunting blacktail deer, where you land on a float plane, and then you go up into the upper regions.
00:10:53.000 That was where the fog rolled in, and you had that nice deer in your scope, and you had weight.
00:10:58.000 That time when I was up there, there was a windstorm.
00:11:01.000 The wind was so bad, it made the front page news in town.
00:11:05.000 They kept saying 70-some mile an hour winds, blew down a bunch of foam poles.
00:11:09.000 The next day, a pilot came up to fly over to see if we were still alive and everything.
00:11:15.000 He just cruised around to check.
00:11:17.000 That's the thing is the weather.
00:11:19.000 So when we go on this trip, we could either just get...
00:11:21.000 We could either have the worst time or the best time, depending.
00:11:25.000 I mean, just depending on the weather.
00:11:26.000 It can be so just uncomfortable and miserable.
00:11:29.000 Or it can be just beautiful.
00:11:32.000 And there's places back in there.
00:11:34.000 Prince Wells Island is huge.
00:11:37.000 I think by some definitions, either the second or...
00:11:41.000 It's either the third or fourth biggest island we have.
00:11:43.000 What's interesting about it, that island is it has, you know, I think it's half the surface area as Hawaii, the big island in Hawaii.
00:11:52.000 Wow.
00:11:52.000 But it has like three times the coastline.
00:11:54.000 Whoa.
00:11:55.000 It's just, you know, it's just a crazy like fjords and inlets and bays.
00:11:58.000 But there are places in this island that you can't really, there's no road system in a lot of it.
00:12:07.000 And there's places you can't fly to because there's no lakes to land.
00:12:11.000 And it's really hard to walk there.
00:12:13.000 So sometimes you're looking at, there's mountains there.
00:12:16.000 And you're like, I guarantee that no one, you know, you can't guarantee.
00:12:20.000 But I mean, like for a hundred years, it's probably no one has stepped foot on that thing.
00:12:23.000 Because you really had, we would have to get to one place and you'd have to get a boat and carry it through and go across to another place and then climb up.
00:12:30.000 Well, it'd be mostly just climbing.
00:12:32.000 Like you just, when you, if you fly over some of those mountaintops and you look around them, there's just no way...
00:12:38.000 I just know that no one's been there.
00:12:40.000 Unless you can land up there on a lake.
00:12:42.000 We'll land in a spot, and I want to just walk from there.
00:12:47.000 And I think we will walk up into stuff that people haven't walked there.
00:12:53.000 I mean, there's always some crazy thing you didn't know about, but we're going to walk into some stuff where people just have not walked.
00:12:58.000 You can stand around places there and say...
00:13:04.000 I feel very certain that I'm definitely the first guy to ever have his feet sitting right here.
00:13:10.000 I can't discount something that happened hundreds and hundreds of years ago, but there's just some wild stuff in there.
00:13:17.000 Right now, I got mixed feelings about it too, but the Forest Service up there just announced they're going to be opening up a cut up there, 6,000 acres of old growth.
00:13:28.000 Whoa.
00:13:29.000 For clear cuts, yeah.
00:13:30.000 Wow, that's kind of fucked up.
00:13:31.000 Dude, I understand every single argument.
00:13:35.000 For and against.
00:13:36.000 I understand every single argument.
00:13:37.000 What's for?
00:13:38.000 What's the good aspect of it?
00:13:40.000 Economics.
00:13:41.000 That's it.
00:13:42.000 You used to have a thriving logging industry based around Tongass, you know, Tongass National Forest.
00:13:47.000 And it's just atrophied, right?
00:13:49.000 So it's a job creation thing.
00:13:51.000 I mean, that's the four.
00:13:53.000 The four is just people that live there having access to a good-paying job.
00:13:58.000 The downside is we have just a minuscule fraction of old growth left.
00:14:05.000 Yeah, I don't see why anybody would allow that.
00:14:08.000 I mean, I understand the economic thing, but I always feel like there's got to be another way to make money.
00:14:12.000 What's weird, too, is Tong has just said recently that over the next decade, they're looking to phase out old growth logging.
00:14:21.000 At the same time that they are announcing and pushing forward with plans to do a big 6,000 acre clear cut.
00:14:29.000 So they're sort of acknowledging on one hand that they want to get out of it or need to get out of it or can see into the future they need to get out of it.
00:14:35.000 And on the other hand being like, but we'll have one last hoorah, I guess.
00:14:39.000 One last party.
00:14:40.000 And you're dealing with how old you think these trees are.
00:14:44.000 I can't speak specifically to that particular area, but there's dog furs that are much older than the birth of this nation out there in cedars.
00:14:54.000 Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years old.
00:14:56.000 That just seems fucked up to chop them down and make what?
00:15:00.000 It's sad, man.
00:15:01.000 Paper?
00:15:02.000 Everything gets so weirdly...
00:15:04.000 We've talked about this before on the show, how things get so convoluted.
00:15:07.000 One of the big, just to bring it back to us going on a hunt for sick of black-tailed deer, those sick of black-tailed deer, when we're going to look for them, we're going to be looking for them up in the Alpine, which they'll be leaving.
00:15:21.000 They'll be leaving around the time we're going there.
00:15:24.000 That stuff still has snow.
00:15:26.000 Where we're going to be looking for deer will still have snow in June.
00:15:29.000 Then it melts off, and there's long days, and it turns beautiful, and it gets very vibrant and green, and there's all kinds of succulents, and deer come up out of the timber to feed around in there.
00:15:39.000 Then in October, it snows, so you have a couple snow-free months.
00:15:42.000 In October, it snows, and those deer will all split.
00:15:45.000 Traditionally, what those deer want to do is they want to go down and spend the winter down in old growth because the old growth canopy allows for kind of a snow-free, sheltered understory where they're down on the ground and they'll hang out in that old growth timber.
00:16:02.000 So an argument against...
00:16:05.000 The cut would be that we need it for deer.
00:16:09.000 And a further argument would be the reason we need to protect deer habitat is because we need to protect the wolves out there.
00:16:16.000 And some people right now are trying to make a push to say that the wolves in the Alexander Archipelago, of which Prince of Wales Island is a part, that those wolves are genetically extinct and they therefore deserve...
00:16:33.000 We're good to go.
00:16:50.000 Might wind up also be angling for protecting wolves out there from hunting and trapping.
00:16:56.000 And then you're left to be like, well, I'm not really comfortable with the timber sale, but I'm not really comfortable with you using biological lumping and splitting in order to close down certain sorts of hunting season.
00:17:07.000 So it winds up being that...
00:17:11.000 The enemies of your enemies aren't necessarily your friends.
00:17:15.000 Wow.
00:17:16.000 Wildlife management is very complicated.
00:17:19.000 So anyways, we're going into that area and we're going to hunt some black-tailed deer.
00:17:24.000 There's a good healthy population.
00:17:26.000 It's still good.
00:17:28.000 Even a non-resident, you're allowed two bucks.
00:17:30.000 Do they have bear up there?
00:17:33.000 Is it black bear?
00:17:34.000 Yeah, but the thing about the bear is you'll see some bear droppings or bear scatter, bear shit here and there.
00:17:40.000 But those bears out there are so tuned in on the salmon runs that they really don't spend a lot of time feeding in those areas because they're down 2,000 feet.
00:17:54.000 Timberline there is like 1,800, 2,000 feet.
00:17:56.000 They're down 2,000 feet lower In the river miles feeding on salmon.
00:18:01.000 And we like to have that image of the bear grabbing a salmon out and he's all silver and shiny and healthy and floppy.
00:18:09.000 But long after the runs are kind of done, they're down there just feeding on rotten fish.
00:18:15.000 Laying around.
00:18:16.000 I've watched wolves there eating dead salmon.
00:18:19.000 I watched five wolves one time eating dead salmon that were the consistency of pudding.
00:18:24.000 Whoa.
00:18:25.000 Just mopping it up.
00:18:27.000 They must have unbelievable stomach bacteria.
00:18:29.000 Oh, man.
00:18:30.000 You can't imagine.
00:18:31.000 So...
00:18:33.000 There's not a lot of bears up there.
00:18:35.000 You see some berries around, but I think that so many of the bears are focused on that stuff.
00:18:40.000 One thing you find, some people say, in those islands in southeast Alaska, they tend to be either a black bear island or a grizzly island.
00:18:48.000 And it changes.
00:18:49.000 So you'd be on one island and it's black bears.
00:18:51.000 Another island's grizzlies.
00:18:52.000 And it's sort of this weird phenomenon that they don't readily mix.
00:18:56.000 You get in interior areas on the mainland where you have grizzlies and black bears coexist.
00:19:02.000 Oftentimes, the grizzlies will dominate the salmon streams, and you'll have more black bears up high.
00:19:09.000 So you could be standing on a mountain a couple thousand feet above sea level, and it's just black bears everywhere on top of the mountain feeding on blueberries, and you're looking down at primo salmon streams, but just big brown bears, big grizzlies down there.
00:19:22.000 And they kind of hoard the spot and the black bears don't get in there.
00:19:26.000 They just can't.
00:19:28.000 They're kind of enemies, yeah.
00:19:30.000 They'll eat them too, right?
00:19:31.000 The grizzlies.
00:19:31.000 They'll eat them.
00:19:32.000 The place that I was up in Alberta when we went bear hunting, they take carcasses after they cut the back straps off and the hams.
00:19:41.000 They'll take the body cavity and they leave it in certain areas where they know grizzlies are to keep the grizzlies coming to that area.
00:19:47.000 Oh, is that right?
00:19:47.000 Yeah, because they don't want the grizzlies coming to the...
00:19:51.000 The other baits, the baits they have out for the black bear, because if they do, they have to abandon that bait, because it's just too sketchy.
00:19:57.000 They have some photos, some camera trap photos of these fucking enormous grizzlies wandering in.
00:20:02.000 Just feeding up on black bears.
00:20:03.000 Yeah.
00:20:04.000 I got a buddy who saw one time, he witnessed a grizzly kill a black bear.
00:20:09.000 Disembowel it and eat its liver.
00:20:11.000 Whoa.
00:20:11.000 Yeah.
00:20:12.000 And there's a very well-regarded hunting guy in Alaska who's written some good hunting books about Alaska named Tony Russ.
00:20:18.000 And I was reading his book on hunting Kodiak.
00:20:21.000 He's got a book on hunting brown bears and grizzlies in Alaska.
00:20:24.000 And a lot of his experiences are on Kodiak and the Alaska Peninsula.
00:20:28.000 And he was saying he's never seen...
00:20:29.000 And just to back up for a minute, on Kodiak, if you map out a bear's diet, okay...
00:20:36.000 A bear, a boar bear, a male brown bear, grizzly, you know, brown bear, on Kodiak, if you map out his annual diet, what he's tuned into in the spring are brown bear cubs.
00:20:48.000 Yeah.
00:20:49.000 He's like, he wakes up, and he's hunting brown bear cubs.
00:20:53.000 He's not fucked up.
00:20:54.000 It's a sniffing part of his diet.
00:20:56.000 But what Tony Russ has said in all of his years of guiding, he's never seen where, when you kill a big, mature, boar brown bear...
00:21:05.000 He's never seen where another brown bear will come and scavenge that carcass.
00:21:09.000 Wow.
00:21:11.000 Even with the thing skinned out and butchered, they recognize through smell or whatever, they will not mess with that thing.
00:21:18.000 That's weird.
00:21:19.000 Black bears do.
00:21:19.000 That's what he says.
00:21:20.000 And this guy's seen a lot.
00:21:23.000 But he was saying nothing will touch those big boars, the body on them.
00:21:26.000 Is he too scared of them?
00:21:27.000 I don't know.
00:21:28.000 Even with something about them, the smell or something, they just know that they don't want anything to do with it.
00:21:32.000 Wow.
00:21:33.000 Wow.
00:21:33.000 When we were in Alberta, one of the guys shot a bear late at night, and they didn't want to retrieve it because there was too many bears in the area.
00:21:40.000 It was just getting sketchy.
00:21:42.000 They shot the bear right at the moment where it was getting dark out, and the bear ran off, and they said, we'll come back in the morning.
00:21:49.000 So they came back in the morning, and a big boar was eating the other black bear.
00:21:53.000 Oh, really?
00:21:54.000 So they were taking selfies, like smiling, while there was a bear behind them eating a bear carcass.
00:22:00.000 That happened to a buddy of mine where he got one and he shot one with his bow and tracked it in the morning and it was just gone.
00:22:08.000 It had been consumed.
00:22:09.000 So crazy.
00:22:10.000 Yeah.
00:22:11.000 Yeah, that's the wild, man.
00:22:13.000 When we were up there, one of the bears, one of the boars, had attacked a sow, killed its cub, and left half the cub's body, and then the sow came back and finished it off.
00:22:23.000 She ate her own baby.
00:22:25.000 Really?
00:22:25.000 Yeah.
00:22:26.000 She ate her own baby in front of them while they were in the stand.
00:22:28.000 I've heard competing theories about that, that on one hand, the boar just is doing it because he wants to eat.
00:22:36.000 But there seems to be this upside where...
00:22:38.000 An additional upside besides caloric intake.
00:22:41.000 That a boar will kill a sow's cubs and she'll come back into estrus.
00:22:49.000 Yeah.
00:22:50.000 A sow's gonna...
00:22:50.000 So when a sow...
00:22:52.000 She'll have her cubs in the den in February or March.
00:22:57.000 Okay?
00:22:57.000 They're just little hairless.
00:22:58.000 She don't even know if she had them probably.
00:23:00.000 Just these hairless little things.
00:23:01.000 And she'll take care of them.
00:23:03.000 She'll emerge from her den with these little fur balls.
00:23:06.000 She'll stay with them all summer long.
00:23:09.000 She'll den with them again.
00:23:11.000 She'll come out again and usually at some point that summer she might get rid of them.
00:23:17.000 And so she's going to be off.
00:23:19.000 Like she won't cycle again.
00:23:22.000 Potentially for two years.
00:23:23.000 So if a boar has in his area he hangs out, he's got a half dozen Females.
00:23:50.000 Or whatever kind of calculation.
00:23:53.000 Obviously he's not making that calculation.
00:23:55.000 He's probably just going like, I'm hungry.
00:23:57.000 But an added benefit of it is apparently he might double back around and make love to the woman whose children he consumed.
00:24:08.000 Well, dolphins actually have a strategy against that, because one of the things that a lot of people are not aware, we think of dolphins as being really sweet and kind, and they're nice to people, but dolphins, they eat their own babies.
00:24:21.000 I didn't know that.
00:24:33.000 Yeah, because they put a huge investment, apparently.
00:24:47.000 The strategy for female dolphins is they are sluts and they fuck as many dolphins as they can.
00:24:53.000 So that when the male comes around and he sees her with the baby, he's like, that might be my fucking kid.
00:24:57.000 All right, I'm not going to kill that kid.
00:24:59.000 Because that's what keeps them from killing the female babies.
00:25:04.000 Because they're thinking.
00:25:05.000 I mean, they're really intelligent animals.
00:25:07.000 They have a cerebral cortex that's 40% larger than a human being's.
00:25:10.000 As a matter of fact, anybody who's listening to this, check out Radiolab.
00:25:14.000 Radiolab has an amazing podcast.
00:25:16.000 The one that's out this week is called Hello, and it's all about John Lilly and John Lilly's work with interspecies communication.
00:25:24.000 Oh, okay.
00:25:25.000 You know who John Lilly was?
00:25:26.000 No, no, I don't know that name.
00:25:28.000 Crazy man.
00:25:28.000 Maniac.
00:25:30.000 And these other scientists that worked with him actually wound up taking his research and bringing it to some new place.
00:25:35.000 Because Lily, he was also the inventor of the isolation tank.
00:25:39.000 He created a sensory deprivation tank because he was a pioneer.
00:25:42.000 Which you're a fan of, right?
00:25:43.000 Yeah, a huge fan.
00:25:45.000 Lily would take acid and set up a tank next to the dolphins.
00:25:51.000 And he would take acid, go in the isolation tank, and try to communicate with the dolphins.
00:25:57.000 So while the dolphins were like...
00:25:59.000 Make all these weird noises.
00:26:00.000 He would try to decipher those while he was on acid in his tank.
00:26:04.000 And he eventually went off the deep end with really getting heavily into ketamine and all these weird tranquilizers and drugs and became actually addicted to ketamine.
00:26:16.000 And that's when he lost all his funding.
00:26:18.000 Nobody wanted to have anything to do with him when it came to this dolphin research anymore because they knew that he was doing that.
00:26:22.000 And one of the women that he had hired to live with a dolphin, they had an apartment set up where it was underwater.
00:26:29.000 It was essentially, to her, it was waist high in water.
00:26:32.000 And she had a dolphin that she lived with for, like, six months in this.
00:26:36.000 And she wound up, like, jerking the dolphin off.
00:26:39.000 Is that right?
00:26:39.000 Because the dolphin would, like, hump her leg all the time and it'd be really distracting because he was a young dolphin.
00:26:44.000 So she says, look, I'm going to just take care of that for you.
00:26:45.000 And she would just jerk this dolphin off.
00:26:47.000 And then, you know, to her, it was like, look, he's got an issue and it's getting in the way of work, so I'll just take care of that.
00:26:53.000 But everybody else is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:26:55.000 You're doing scientific research by jerking off dolphins?
00:26:58.000 Like, okay.
00:26:59.000 Yeah, I can see that.
00:27:00.000 Yeah.
00:27:01.000 She might need a couple minutes to explain herself, man.
00:27:04.000 But the podcast sort of focuses on dolphin communication and the difficulty that they have.
00:27:13.000 Like, they know that the dolphins want to communicate with them, but they have that blowhole, and that's how they make their noise.
00:27:18.000 So it's really hard for them to make noises that mimic human noises, because they don't really have the ability to make M's and T's and all these different kinds of things.
00:27:28.000 Yeah, it's a completely different apparatus, man.
00:27:31.000 So in the podcast, you hear her talking to the dolphin and the dolphin trying to imitate what she's saying.
00:27:38.000 It's crazy.
00:27:39.000 Is that right?
00:27:40.000 It's amazing.
00:27:41.000 When you get into animal communication, so much of it becomes semantical or an argument of semantics where you'd say, well, we're the only thing with language.
00:27:52.000 And people would be like, well, you know, actually, X, Y, and Z has something.
00:27:56.000 Okay, well, I mean, we're the only thing with complex language.
00:27:59.000 Well, some animals are actually able to convey fairly complex things, like there's a predator above us.
00:28:06.000 And they're like, well, what I mean is they don't have syntax.
00:28:11.000 And you kind of wind up running out.
00:28:14.000 It's like the verdict's still out, man.
00:28:16.000 Animals do convey some complicated stuff.
00:28:19.000 My two brothers are ecologists, PhD scientists, and they kind of hate the conversation because...
00:28:28.000 Not resistant to, but they have a hard time with trying to use our terminology and use our language to describe what animals are up to.
00:28:36.000 For you to say that the dolphin doesn't want to eat the baby because it might be his baby, someone might argue that that animal probably has no comprehension of that.
00:28:50.000 Or even that they are not able to equate Sex with reproduction.
00:28:58.000 They're so intelligent, though.
00:29:00.000 I don't know how they wouldn't be able to equate that.
00:29:02.000 I don't either.
00:29:03.000 I struggle with this all the time.
00:29:04.000 I really should have said killed.
00:29:06.000 I don't think they eat them.
00:29:06.000 They kill them.
00:29:08.000 They might.
00:29:09.000 They really hurt, but they kill them.
00:29:11.000 They bite them.
00:29:12.000 You know, I struggle with this stuff all the time because, you know, as a hunter...
00:29:20.000 I'm always weighing out, what are the things that we're after and what are their capabilities?
00:29:25.000 I don't want to fall into some trap where I just act like, oh, it's just like corn with legs.
00:29:30.000 So I am curious all the time about the capabilities of animals.
00:29:35.000 And I tend to be open to the idea that there's different sets of experiences that different animals have.
00:29:43.000 That some have perhaps more of an awareness than others.
00:29:48.000 Yeah.
00:29:48.000 There's a hierarchy, if you will.
00:29:51.000 And I think that the consensus is that dolphins are pretty high on that hierarchy.
00:29:56.000 Yeah, dolphins and orcas, of course.
00:29:58.000 Orcas are very high up on that.
00:29:59.000 And they eat dolphins.
00:30:01.000 That's what's really fucked up.
00:30:02.000 You know, I've been going through this with my kid, man.
00:30:04.000 He...
00:30:05.000 We just moved to the Pacific Northwest, and so I keep talking to my kid about everything's got a killer whale on it, you know, like stores, grocery stores, whatever, just like a common motif.
00:30:14.000 And I kept telling them it's a killer whale, it's a killer whale.
00:30:18.000 And I know that a lot of people like to call them orcas, you know.
00:30:22.000 And orca is some Greek word I think just means, cetitian just means whale.
00:30:26.000 It's a pretty generic term.
00:30:28.000 And some people say that killer whales used to be called whale killers.
00:30:32.000 And whale killer became killer whale.
00:30:34.000 So I'm always telling my kid, oh, it's a killer whale.
00:30:36.000 And one day my kid comes home, and he's just mad in hell because he learned that it's not a killer whale, it's an orca.
00:30:43.000 And I'm like, listen, man, I know what the person who told you that is trying to tell you, and I already know that, but I told you killer whale not because I wasn't aware, because I was trying to circumvent I was trying to come back around against what you would inevitably learn about its PC name.
00:31:03.000 Oh, I see.
00:31:05.000 You know?
00:31:06.000 You were, like, planting in advance, planting the seed.
00:31:09.000 I was like, dude, it wasn't that I didn't know.
00:31:10.000 I was just trying to fill you up with, just to open you to the idea that the animals get new names all the time, and it's just a PC. It's like a, what do you call it?
00:31:20.000 It's like a marketing term.
00:31:21.000 Orca's a marketing term for a killer whale.
00:31:23.000 I mean, it's not a whale.
00:31:25.000 It's a tooth whale.
00:31:26.000 Is it?
00:31:26.000 Yeah.
00:31:27.000 But a dolphin's a tooth whale, too, because it's a cousin of a dolphin.
00:31:29.000 Oh, I see what you say.
00:31:30.000 I thought...
00:31:31.000 Pardon me, I thought you were saying it wasn't a mammal or something.
00:31:34.000 Oh, no.
00:31:34.000 It's a cousin of a dolphin, right?
00:31:37.000 Like, taxonomically, where is it at?
00:31:37.000 You know, I don't know.
00:31:39.000 I'd be curious.
00:31:41.000 I'm pretty sure.
00:31:42.000 I'd be curious to know.
00:31:42.000 Yeah, because I'm pretty sure there's a crazy video of one.
00:31:46.000 They're killing a whale while it's alive.
00:31:48.000 These killer whales are biting...
00:31:50.000 That's how most killing happens.
00:31:51.000 Yeah, but I mean, I should say they're eating it while it's alive.
00:31:55.000 They're biting chunks of its face off, and it's just so hard to watch.
00:31:59.000 Because we think of these whales as being these beautiful creatures, and we think of...
00:32:02.000 I don't know why we have this weird idea of killer whales as being these really noble creatures.
00:32:09.000 Because I always think of killer whales as being the friend of man, and that's why when one does freak out at SeaWorld, it makes SeaWorld look so horrible.
00:32:16.000 Because in the wild, there's almost no evidence whatsoever that whales have ever killed anybody.
00:32:21.000 Yeah, but he's probably after a while, he's like, what am I supposed to kill then?
00:32:24.000 I'm a killer.
00:32:25.000 Exactly.
00:32:26.000 Whale.
00:32:27.000 And the instincts that they have.
00:32:29.000 The way I always equate it, one of the things I have a problem with zoos in general is that they don't allow animals to do their natural thing.
00:32:36.000 I really think that what zoos should be is get all those motherfuckers together.
00:32:40.000 You should have a giant piece of land if you're going to fence it in.
00:32:42.000 Let them in there and let them run wild.
00:32:45.000 And if people really want to see animals, what they should see is jaguars killing monkeys and the whole gamut.
00:32:51.000 And it sounds fucked up, but that's really what the wild is.
00:32:54.000 Because what we're doing by taking these animals and putting them in these weird cages, We're creating these closed-in ecosystems where these animals never have to compete, their food is given to them, and we're ruining their genetics.
00:33:07.000 I mean, those animals that are in zoos, they're completely incapable of ever being reintroduced into the wild, unless you take them, and it would have to be some really exhausting effort to try to reintroduce them to the idea of hunting their own food or gathering their own food.
00:33:23.000 But those fucking dummies that you have in the zoo, you've created these welfare monkeys.
00:33:28.000 Yeah.
00:33:28.000 You know, these monkeys that just...
00:33:29.000 I shouldn't say welfare.
00:33:30.000 I should say, like, they're pets.
00:33:33.000 They're like dogs.
00:33:34.000 It's like expecting your dog to figure out how to go hunting when he's just sitting there wagging his tail waiting for you to open up a can of Alpo.
00:33:40.000 They don't know any better.
00:33:41.000 But what zoos use in their defense...
00:33:44.000 And, you know, some people...
00:33:46.000 We've kind of gotten away from...
00:33:48.000 A lot of people have gotten away from aesthetically, so like the bear in the cage kind of display.
00:33:52.000 But what zoos are always able to use in their defense is...
00:33:55.000 With cases like the panda, Florida panther, they're a genetic reserve.
00:34:00.000 So maybe they're not ensuring behavior.
00:34:07.000 They're not protecting behavior, but they're at least protecting the genetic reserve.
00:34:12.000 So they should hit the fan for some species, you have that.
00:34:16.000 And there's many, many examples of wild populations that have been supplemented through the zoo stuff.
00:34:24.000 But I know what you're saying.
00:34:27.000 When I take my kid to a zoo, I remember we were sitting there looking at this pathetic example of a grizzly bear.
00:34:36.000 I remember just kind of wanting to look at my son and be like, listen, dude, you're getting the wrong idea.
00:34:40.000 These things are badass, normally, you know?
00:34:42.000 Yeah.
00:34:43.000 It's just kind of sad.
00:34:44.000 Have you seen that show, The Hunt, that I told you about?
00:34:47.000 No, no, I didn't see it, but I remember you talking about it.
00:34:49.000 Pretty interesting.
00:34:50.000 I don't think it's on anymore.
00:34:50.000 I read about it after you told me about it, because the guy from Metallica was narrating it, and then he got...
00:34:57.000 Their band got punished and weren't allowed to play at a music festival.
00:35:00.000 Well, they were trying to ban him from the music festival.
00:35:02.000 So that never happened.
00:35:03.000 I don't think it...
00:35:04.000 What the fuck is his name?
00:35:05.000 Because he narrated a show.
00:35:06.000 Hetfield, right?
00:35:07.000 Yeah, James Hetfield.
00:35:07.000 Hetfield, yeah.
00:35:08.000 He's a good narrator.
00:35:09.000 It's interesting.
00:35:10.000 He's a hunter.
00:35:10.000 He hunts a lot.
00:35:12.000 And there's a photo of him with this fucking giant bear.
00:35:16.000 Holy shit.
00:35:16.000 I mean, it's a perspective shot.
00:35:18.000 You know, they always put the bear in front of the person.
00:35:19.000 Yeah, where you get way back, yeah.
00:35:20.000 But this fucking bear is huge.
00:35:22.000 I mean, it's like a nine-foot bear.
00:35:23.000 It's enormous.
00:35:24.000 It's just the shoulders on this fucking thing and the head on this thing.
00:35:29.000 And he's standing in front of them.
00:35:30.000 People are like, oh my god, disgusting, evil.
00:35:33.000 What they don't understand is if you truly love bears, you've got to kill that bear.
00:35:37.000 Because if you don't kill that bear, that bear, those big giant bears, are responsible for decimating the population of cubs.
00:35:43.000 That's what they do.
00:35:44.000 And if you don't trim the big ones, if you don't kill some of the big ones, there's a photo of him with the bear.
00:35:50.000 I mean, that is a fucking big bear.
00:35:51.000 Oh, that's a giant, yeah.
00:35:53.000 Was that Kodiak?
00:35:53.000 Where was that?
00:35:54.000 That's Kodiak.
00:35:55.000 Yeah, he shot one up there while he was doing that show, apparently.
00:35:58.000 I mean, they are enormous.
00:36:01.000 Yeah, you're not...
00:36:01.000 You might see...
00:36:03.000 Like, someone might see that you killed a big male bear and be upset by it, but you're really not impacting the bear population.
00:36:13.000 You know, you're impacting that individual bear, but you're not having any kind of...
00:36:17.000 We're good to go.
00:36:29.000 I think as a non-guided non-resident...
00:36:31.000 So if you want to go with a guide, you can go to Kodiak and hunt.
00:36:34.000 You can just go book a trip and go.
00:36:36.000 So you just have to pay them and they have a certain amount of tax?
00:36:38.000 Yeah, I don't know what it is.
00:36:40.000 You might pay $25,000, $30,000 for the hunt.
00:36:42.000 It's interesting watching it.
00:36:43.000 But a non-guided non-resident...
00:36:45.000 There's a very limited number of tags for non-guided non-resident, which means that I would have to go...
00:36:53.000 In lieu of a guide, because my brother's a resident of Alaska, I don't need to use a guide when hunting animals that you normally need to guide to hunt.
00:37:02.000 So I can go with him and hunt there.
00:37:04.000 And so every other year, they do a thing where you can apply for the spring hunt.
00:37:09.000 I always put in for that hunt.
00:37:11.000 And then when you told me about that show, I was bummed because I was like, now the odds of drawing that tag are probably going to for a long time go way, way, way down because there's probably going to be a ton of dudes putting in for the permit now.
00:37:22.000 Yeah.
00:37:23.000 I could be wrong.
00:37:24.000 Probably.
00:37:24.000 But I feel like it's going to increase interest and now I'm like trying to think of a new place to start putting in.
00:37:29.000 I've never killed a grizzly bear.
00:37:30.000 I want to.
00:37:32.000 I really want to one time.
00:37:33.000 Well, you also have a weird thing where you want a grizzly bear to scratch your chest and leave scars.
00:37:38.000 Yes.
00:37:41.000 Why would you say...
00:37:41.000 It meant a lot more to me when I was single.
00:37:45.000 That just seems like one of the worst requests ever.
00:37:49.000 Like, a fucking giant bear.
00:37:51.000 I mean, what is a full-grown grizzly whey?
00:37:54.000 What's the weight?
00:37:55.000 I mean, there's a magical number that gets thrown around a lot.
00:37:57.000 It's like...
00:37:58.000 When people want to say that a bear was huge, they say, it was a thousand pounds.
00:38:04.000 Right.
00:38:05.000 But those, I guess, are...
00:38:07.000 If you put a lot of 1,000 pound bears on a scale, they're 800 pounds.
00:38:12.000 They're 750 pounds, 800 pounds.
00:38:14.000 Again, that Tony Russ guy that wrote those books I was talking about, he's had an immense amount of experience and he kind of has a passage in there where he talks about the 1,000 pound bear and there just aren't a lot of them out there.
00:38:27.000 As much as you read people getting 10 foot 1,000 pound bears.
00:38:31.000 You and I laughed about this before because everyone that sees a mountain lion in the wild We're good to go.
00:39:00.000 And then I noticed it had this big bouncy tail.
00:39:02.000 It was in Santa Barbara.
00:39:04.000 I was in Montecito driving through a residential neighborhood.
00:39:07.000 And we're like, my wife said it.
00:39:08.000 I saw it first.
00:39:09.000 And I go, oh shit, look at its tail.
00:39:09.000 She goes, coyote.
00:39:11.000 And we're like, that's a mountain lion.
00:39:12.000 It was like, in that time, we saw it in the headlights.
00:39:16.000 Couldn't have been more than 70 pounds.
00:39:17.000 Yeah, you're a discerning individual to not have seen a 200-pound tom.
00:39:21.000 So there's the 1,000-pound bear.
00:39:22.000 But that bear we're just looking at is a huge bear.
00:39:25.000 I don't know what he weighs.
00:39:26.000 Well, did you see that video that's been going around lately of a bear that was walking around on two legs?
00:39:32.000 And people were saying, is this Bigfoot?
00:39:34.000 Is this what people are seeing?
00:39:35.000 Because it's absolutely a black bear.
00:39:37.000 And this bear, just for whatever reason, decides...
00:39:39.000 That's how he likes to get around.
00:39:40.000 He walked like a long distance on two legs.
00:39:43.000 Like, it's a crazy video.
00:39:44.000 No, I haven't seen that.
00:39:45.000 Pull that video up, Jamie, because it's...
00:39:47.000 The one in the neighborhood, right?
00:39:48.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:49.000 It's like walking in this suburban neighborhood, and this fucking bear is on two legs like a dude in a bear outfit, like Yogi.
00:39:56.000 Really?
00:39:57.000 Yeah, and I mean, he walks 30, 40 yards like this.
00:40:00.000 So if you were in the woods and you saw this bear doing that, you'd be like, I saw a fucking Sasquatch.
00:40:05.000 I know what I saw.
00:40:06.000 Especially if it was like dusk.
00:40:08.000 You know, look at this bear.
00:40:09.000 Look at him.
00:40:09.000 You gotta be kidding me.
00:40:10.000 No, check him out, man.
00:40:12.000 Pull it from the beginning so we can see the whole thing.
00:40:14.000 Do it from the beginning.
00:40:16.000 Look at this!
00:40:20.000 Oh yeah, man.
00:40:21.000 I mean, if you didn't know any better, especially if it was thick woods and you saw that thing, you would fucking swear that that's a Bigfoot.
00:40:27.000 Because you know what?
00:40:28.000 The shots you're looking at right there are often about as long as you see a bear.
00:40:33.000 Yeah, look at him.
00:40:34.000 I mean, look at that.
00:40:35.000 That is fucking crazy.
00:40:35.000 Look at that.
00:40:36.000 That's pretty wild that he likes to get around like that.
00:40:38.000 You would assume that that is a monkey.
00:40:41.000 That's an ape.
00:40:42.000 That's a fucking bear.
00:40:43.000 Look at that thing.
00:40:45.000 Now, does he have a normal gait when he does get down on all fours or is he screwed up somehow?
00:40:49.000 No, he was running.
00:40:50.000 Oh, he was?
00:40:51.000 You saw him run on all fours?
00:40:52.000 It says his paws are injured.
00:40:53.000 Oh, his paws are injured.
00:40:56.000 Oh, he might have got caught in a trap.
00:40:58.000 No?
00:40:58.000 No.
00:40:59.000 No.
00:41:00.000 Not both paws.
00:41:01.000 Well, it looks like his right paw.
00:41:02.000 It looks like his right paw is missing.
00:41:04.000 What state is he in?
00:41:05.000 I think?
00:41:06.000 New Jersey.
00:41:07.000 I mean, if he got caught in a trap, it's because someone illegally set.
00:41:07.000 Yeah.
00:41:10.000 I don't think that's the cause.
00:41:11.000 I mean, you can't trap bears in New Jersey.
00:41:14.000 But just the fact that a bear has that ability.
00:41:17.000 Can you trap at all in New Jersey?
00:41:20.000 I don't know what...
00:41:21.000 Yeah, there's some fur trapping there, but I don't know to what extent.
00:41:23.000 But there's no bear trapping there.
00:41:24.000 But isn't it possible that he got caught in another animal's trap and that's how he's still alive?
00:41:28.000 Because he only hurt his paw?
00:41:30.000 There's no trap...
00:41:32.000 That would be used for fur-bearing animals now that would cripple that thing to the point where he would do that.
00:41:37.000 If he got caught in a foot hold trap or leg hold trap, he would pop his foot out of there.
00:41:42.000 Really?
00:41:43.000 I mean, I can't rule out everything.
00:41:46.000 If that's what happened to that bear, and I have no reason to think that it is, If someone came down and said, absolutely, that's what happened to that bear, I'd be like, then someone was doing an illegal trapping activity, because that's not something that would happen.
00:42:01.000 Is it much more likely, because we're looking at a residential area that stood on something?
00:42:05.000 When I used to trap, I used to do this all the time, is I can snap my hand in most traps.
00:42:11.000 Really?
00:42:12.000 Yeah.
00:42:13.000 Because the trap has more of a function of, I mean, this is going to get all, you're going to probably hear from all kinds of your listeners, but It has a holding function.
00:42:21.000 So it starves them to death?
00:42:23.000 No, not if you're...
00:42:25.000 No, because you have to check your traps.
00:42:28.000 Oh, so you go there and it's still alive and then you have to kill it.
00:42:30.000 Yeah.
00:42:30.000 So when I used to fur trap, I would check my traps every 24 hours, usually in the morning.
00:42:36.000 But anyways, what the trap largely serves to do is hold something.
00:42:41.000 And the way when you rig them...
00:42:44.000 If you do things right, you rig them with a lot of swivels and things, and so what you're trying to do is really limit any kind of damage to the animal.
00:42:55.000 And this isn't altruistic.
00:42:56.000 The reason you want to limit damage to the animal is the animal's less likely to fight the trap.
00:43:01.000 If you have a trap that causes nerve damage, bone damage, numbing, it's all the more chances that that thing is going to be working harder to get away.
00:43:13.000 In the ideal case, you're just trying to hold it with a foothold trap.
00:43:18.000 So it would try to chew its way out?
00:43:21.000 Yeah, people always say chew, but what they will do, and I've seen it happen, particularly with muskrats, which have very, very thin bones.
00:43:29.000 There's one that only has one paw.
00:43:31.000 I wonder what happened to him.
00:43:32.000 Where's that?
00:43:33.000 I have no idea.
00:43:35.000 I just typed in bear trap.
00:43:36.000 National Park Service.
00:43:37.000 What do you think happened there?
00:43:38.000 Well, that's too high on his leg.
00:43:41.000 To be a trap?
00:43:42.000 Yeah.
00:43:43.000 So maybe that's a shot?
00:43:45.000 A gunshot or something like that?
00:43:46.000 Could've been.
00:43:46.000 He could've got shot.
00:43:47.000 He could've got shot.
00:43:48.000 He could've got hit by a car.
00:43:50.000 I mean, things meet such weird ends and injuries.
00:43:57.000 I've seen bears and I'm fairly convinced.
00:44:00.000 On Prince of Wales Island, I've seen bears that I'm fairly convinced had been shot just because of the sort of like wear on the shoulder it happened, you know?
00:44:07.000 Right, like it looked like someone just kind of hit its vitals.
00:44:08.000 Yeah, it just looked like.
00:44:09.000 I could just be like, I could picture how that would happen.
00:44:11.000 I can't say that that didn't happen there, but that's not a trap thing.
00:44:14.000 What I have seen with muskrats anyways, muskrats have very, very, very thin bones.
00:44:18.000 And you'll see where you'd get muskrats that would, in trapper parlance, they'll say it would ring out, so it would just twist.
00:44:27.000 And get away.
00:44:28.000 Oh, okay.
00:44:28.000 So it just keeps spinning until it gets out of there.
00:44:30.000 So people say like a chew-out, but it's weird because people defending trapping will like to clarify that it's not actually a chew-off, it's a ring-off.
00:44:40.000 But they're still cutting their own arm off by spinning around until the tissue breaks off.
00:44:45.000 I never saw it on muskrats.
00:44:51.000 I never saw it on larger animals.
00:44:54.000 I'm not saying that it doesn't happen.
00:44:56.000 But again, like everything, there's good practices.
00:45:03.000 I don't trap anymore.
00:45:06.000 When I tell you what I'm telling you, I'm just telling you this from being a guy who likes to be clear about factual matters.
00:45:13.000 I don't have a real dog in the race on this, so to speak, right now.
00:45:17.000 But if you follow good practices on trapping, It's in your best interest to not have these sorts of things happen.
00:45:28.000 That you would set in a way that you don't have incidental catches.
00:45:32.000 Or bycatch.
00:45:33.000 You check your traps on a very tight schedule.
00:45:37.000 You rig them in such a way that you don't cause damage.
00:45:40.000 That if you did get something else into your trap, you would be able to release that thing unharmed.
00:45:45.000 But there are people who, for lack of caring, and there are people who, just for lack of technical expertise, screw these things up.
00:45:54.000 And oftentimes, you could get violations like what would be like a trapping-based violation from someone who wouldn't self-identify as a fur trapper, but who just got mad about some bear or whatever getting into his dumpster, and then he takes matters into his own hands completely outside of the law and decides to fix that bear and inexperately set a trap for it.
00:46:15.000 Now, there are bear traps, right?
00:46:16.000 Those big traps you see in those movies that catch the bad guy in his leg and he's screaming, ah!
00:46:21.000 Those are real.
00:46:22.000 There used to be a lot of black bear trapping.
00:46:26.000 People used to trap black bears all the time.
00:46:28.000 There used to be some grizzly trapping at a time.
00:46:31.000 People would trap them to sell fur.
00:46:33.000 They'd trap them to get them for scientific purposes.
00:46:37.000 They'd trap them to just catch them for pets.
00:46:40.000 They'd trap them to mitigate livestock risk.
00:46:43.000 There's a lot of trapping going on.
00:46:45.000 Right now, bear trapping...
00:46:50.000 Isn't a thing that goes on.
00:46:52.000 There's a bear trap right there?
00:46:53.000 Yeah.
00:46:54.000 And what's funny now is there used to be a lot of bear traps, antique bear traps on the market, but people still manufacture...
00:47:03.000 What would be a bear trap in order to sell it as a piece of false memorabilia?
00:47:09.000 Oh, like a flintlock gun?
00:47:11.000 So there's a lot of guys that make reproductions of old bear traps.
00:47:11.000 Exactly.
00:47:17.000 No one's intending that they're going to go set it for a bear, but people want to have a lodge.
00:47:22.000 You've got your cabin and you want to have a big bear trap hanging up in it.
00:47:25.000 So there's a lot of bear traps...
00:47:27.000 And you'll see where a dude will think he has something awesome, you know, and he's trying to sell it for a thousand bucks, and you look at it and be like, you can go buy those all day long.
00:47:35.000 For $150.
00:47:36.000 It's just, like, it's not old.
00:47:37.000 There's a comedy club in town called The Improv, and the front of the comedy club, at one time, they've abandoned it, but it was a barbecue place.
00:47:44.000 And the barbecue place, they tried to make it, like, with old tools in the wall, like an old saw, like, you know, those wooden handle on each side.
00:47:53.000 And you could look at it, and you're like, I know that shit is two years old.
00:47:58.000 I'm looking up.
00:47:59.000 It's all rusty and everything, but I know this is not a fucking antique.
00:48:02.000 They had one of those sickles that, you know, like the death dealer that, what do they call it?
00:48:07.000 Grim Reaper.
00:48:08.000 Grim Reaper.
00:48:08.000 Grim Reaper was always supposed to have.
00:48:09.000 That was on the wall, too.
00:48:11.000 Like, trying to make it like some farm house.
00:48:13.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:48:14.000 Old-timey.
00:48:15.000 Old-timey wood walls, like a stained, you know, they made it look like it's old and weathered, you know, the wood.
00:48:21.000 Which some of me, this is actually from a hundred-year-old farmhouse, the wood that we have here.
00:48:25.000 This is reclaimed oak.
00:48:27.000 This is nice.
00:48:28.000 Yeah, I specifically went out of the way to get old wood because I felt like it'd be kind of cool, you know, because it's...
00:48:36.000 This is probably some weird energy and some old farm wood.
00:48:39.000 This is like real old thick wood.
00:48:42.000 Oh, yeah.
00:48:42.000 No, I like it.
00:48:44.000 Me and my old man cut down.
00:48:45.000 He's dead now, but when I was in high school, he was building a pole barn.
00:48:50.000 And we cut down an oak on this piece of property we owned across the road from our house.
00:48:57.000 This is a little corner lot.
00:48:58.000 And we cut down an oak.
00:48:59.000 He built the barn.
00:49:01.000 And I took that oak, the logs, and I took them down and put them on a flatbed trailer and had them milled in the lumber.
00:49:07.000 Oh, wow.
00:49:08.000 And took all that lumber, and years later...
00:49:10.000 He's been dead since, I think, 2002, 2003. I still haven't finished this.
00:49:14.000 But then I laminated all those pieces together into what looks like chunks of a bowling lane.
00:49:19.000 Ah.
00:49:20.000 And I'm still trying to make a damn desk out of these things.
00:49:22.000 Oh, wow.
00:49:23.000 It's like...
00:49:24.000 And I'm actively engaged right now in trying to move one of these slabs from Miles City out to Washington now so I can continue my now 12-year-long project of trying to turn me and the old man's tree.
00:49:35.000 So anyways, I'm a sentimentalist when it comes to wood, just like yourself.
00:49:38.000 Oh, that's cool.
00:49:39.000 So you're going to make it like a writing desk, like where you do your writing?
00:49:41.000 I think so.
00:49:42.000 I think I'm going to make a wraparound desk, yeah.
00:49:44.000 That's a great idea, yeah.
00:49:46.000 But all the pieces I have together aren't as big as this desk we're sitting at, but it's still a nice, you know, big chunk.
00:49:51.000 I have a desk that I bought in 1993. It's a writing desk, and it's got two levels.
00:49:56.000 Like, one level, it's a very, it's old, it's oak, you know, but it's like, there was a place called the Writer's Store, and it was a store in Hollywood that was just all writing stuff.
00:50:05.000 It used to have, like, script programs for old-school Macs, like, you know, the oldest computer.
00:50:10.000 It means it's 1994 that I got this fucking thing.
00:50:12.000 And I've written everything I've ever written on this one desk.
00:50:14.000 Still now?
00:50:15.000 Yeah.
00:50:15.000 I won't ever get rid of it.
00:50:17.000 My wife's like, let's get rid of this piece of shit.
00:50:18.000 I'm like, get the fuck out of here.
00:50:20.000 This desk is going nowhere.
00:50:21.000 It's solid as a rock.
00:50:22.000 It's all oak.
00:50:23.000 But it's just, there's stains on it.
00:50:26.000 It's got like coffee.
00:50:26.000 She said, it's disgusting.
00:50:27.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:28.000 This shit's perfect.
00:50:29.000 As long as it's in my office, you fucking leave it here.
00:50:32.000 It's got the patina of your sweat and labor on it.
00:50:34.000 Everything good I've ever written is all from that desk.
00:50:38.000 This is one desk I've had, and I'm never getting rid of it.
00:50:42.000 I just got this one oak desk that I've had from the beginning of my time here in LA, and I'll never get rid of that fucking desk.
00:50:48.000 So when you say that you've written...
00:50:50.000 Do you sit down and write?
00:50:52.000 Yes.
00:50:52.000 Stand-up?
00:50:53.000 Well, I sit down and write.
00:50:55.000 This is what I do.
00:50:56.000 Most of the time, I write.
00:50:57.000 I used to keep an active blog on my website.
00:51:01.000 But when I started writing a book, I got a book deal a few years back.
00:51:05.000 And I started writing a book.
00:51:06.000 I stopped writing the blog.
00:51:07.000 And then when the publishers were just fucking trying to...
00:51:12.000 They were essentially trying to get me to write it like stand-up.
00:51:14.000 I remember you talking about this, yeah.
00:51:16.000 So I gave them their money back.
00:51:17.000 Which you felt like doesn't work for a book.
00:51:18.000 Well, I don't like it.
00:51:20.000 I've read George Carlin's book, which is essentially just his stand-up in book form, and Jerry Seinfeld did a similar thing.
00:51:27.000 I don't like that.
00:51:29.000 If I want George Carlin's writing like that, I want to see it.
00:51:32.000 I want to see George Carlin do his stuff.
00:51:34.000 I don't want to read it.
00:51:35.000 Yeah, I'm with you.
00:51:36.000 There's some benefit, I guess, in reading it.
00:51:38.000 It's good.
00:51:39.000 It's better than nothing.
00:51:40.000 But it's not as good as...
00:51:42.000 When I write, I'm writing stuff because I know people are going to read it.
00:51:46.000 So the descriptives are very different.
00:51:48.000 The way it's spaced out is very different.
00:51:50.000 The way I set things up is different.
00:51:52.000 And so what I do now is I write as if I was going to write a book or a blog entry.
00:51:58.000 And then I go over it.
00:52:00.000 And then I extract ideas that come out of that.
00:52:03.000 Because I feel like...
00:52:05.000 I do both.
00:52:06.000 Like, I'll write down specifically.
00:52:07.000 I'll try to write as a joke, like thinking I'm standing on stage and, you know, set up punchline or beginning premise and then add in the jokes.
00:52:16.000 But more often, I just write.
00:52:18.000 Like, I'll write about something.
00:52:20.000 And then along the way, usually I'm baked, so I get silly.
00:52:23.000 Like, as I'm writing, like, these new ideas will come in.
00:52:25.000 You don't mean writing with characters and stuff.
00:52:28.000 No, no, no, no.
00:52:28.000 Just writing as you're talking.
00:52:30.000 But I do that sometimes, too.
00:52:30.000 But you write as you're talking.
00:52:32.000 Yeah, I write not even as me talking.
00:52:35.000 I just write.
00:52:36.000 I'll write like...
00:52:38.000 I'll pick a subject.
00:52:44.000 Whatever.
00:52:46.000 Amphetamines.
00:52:47.000 Speed.
00:52:48.000 Adderall.
00:52:49.000 And I'll start writing about Adderall.
00:52:51.000 And then along the way, I'll have a really funny thing will come up in the writing.
00:52:58.000 I'm laughing as I'm writing it.
00:53:00.000 Because it just came out of nowhere.
00:53:01.000 Don't you feel like...
00:53:02.000 You're a really good writer, man, by the way.
00:53:04.000 I really love Meteor.
00:53:05.000 It's a really good book.
00:53:06.000 Oh, thanks, man.
00:53:08.000 I mean, I knew you're a smart dude, and you're obviously very articulate, but the writing is very descriptive.
00:53:16.000 It's very interesting.
00:53:17.000 It's very fun to follow.
00:53:20.000 When you write stuff like that, don't you feel like sometimes, as you're writing, it's almost like it's not even you that's writing?
00:53:30.000 These ideas just sort of pop into your head out of nowhere, and then you're putting them down?
00:53:37.000 No, for me, I'm so aware of the process that there's no surprising thing to me.
00:53:46.000 One of my mentors, what I regard as one of the best American non-fiction writers out there alive now, is a writer named Ian Frazier.
00:53:56.000 What's his work?
00:53:58.000 He's got several books.
00:54:00.000 One of the books I hold up is just like one of the, in my opinion, one of the finest books ever written is his book Great Plains, which is about the Great Plains.
00:54:10.000 But he's a stylist, you know?
00:54:13.000 He was a humor writer for The New Yorker for a long time.
00:54:16.000 I had great fortune to...
00:54:18.000 I don't know if he would use this term.
00:54:21.000 I think he mentored me in some way.
00:54:23.000 I read his stuff and had the opportunity to hang out with him a handful of times.
00:54:27.000 He was saying that when he was growing up and he wanted to be a writer, he pictured that writers would be that you're sitting at a desk kind of chuckling to yourself as you You know, have all these fantastic ideas.
00:54:40.000 But when I write, I get so few words written every day, and every sentence that I write takes...
00:54:48.000 I have to write it and rewrite it and rewrite it so many times that there's never a thing where I feel like...
00:54:53.000 There's never a thing where I feel like, holy smokes, I nailed it.
00:54:59.000 Because it's so...
00:55:02.000 I almost look at it like if you're building a house.
00:55:04.000 Maybe when you get all done with the house, you can stand outside and be like, wow, there it is.
00:55:08.000 I did it.
00:55:09.000 But there's never a shocking moment because every nail and every board.
00:55:15.000 There's never a chance where something jumps ahead radically really quickly in a way that can startle you.
00:55:22.000 Now, the other night, I wrote...
00:55:24.000 My brother's getting married this weekend.
00:55:25.000 My older brother.
00:55:26.000 And I sat down to make some notes about my best man speech.
00:55:35.000 After I wrote my best man speech...
00:55:37.000 It's funny because this just happened to me last night.
00:55:40.000 After I did my best man speech...
00:55:42.000 I felt like, why can't I feel, like, I had it where I got, I was, like, talking about some funny stuff in my head and kind of writing down notes, and I thought of some way to actually, like, you're supposed to do in a best man speech, you're supposed to make it, like, hit right, like, hit the right note, right?
00:55:55.000 It's funny and you're dogging on them, and then all of a sudden you turn it, you know, and it's sweet and nice, okay?
00:56:02.000 And I found that turn, To make it sweet and nice.
00:56:05.000 And it just struck me as being perfect.
00:56:09.000 I was like, why can't the regular writing I do feel that way?
00:56:12.000 That's interesting.
00:56:13.000 Where I'm like, ha!
00:56:14.000 And I kind of want to pump my fist in the air.
00:56:17.000 Do other people that you know that are writers have those moments?
00:56:19.000 Those moments that I'm talking about where things just pop to you?
00:56:24.000 I feel like they do.
00:56:26.000 One of the things I follow on Twitter is this thing, John Winokur.
00:56:30.000 And it's just, I don't know how he does it, but six or seven times a day he's got quotes from great writers about writing.
00:56:36.000 How do you spell his name?
00:56:37.000 J-O-H-N? I think it's W-I-N, oh, John Winokur.
00:56:43.000 It's like writers on writing.
00:56:46.000 And I learned more about writing and writers from reading this thing because it's just like really cool writers talking about the writing process.
00:56:54.000 I'm sure he's probably hit one just within minutes.
00:56:56.000 Oh, at advice to writers.
00:56:59.000 Advice to writers.
00:57:00.000 Like here right now, just a couple minutes ago.
00:57:03.000 Or a couple hours ago.
00:57:04.000 When I write, I don't think of the audience.
00:57:06.000 After the fact, I think, well, I hope they like it.
00:57:10.000 So that's like a writer talking about...
00:57:12.000 Writing.
00:57:13.000 Right.
00:57:14.000 And this Twitter feed hits these quotes all day long.
00:57:16.000 So I learn more about writers, even though I went to writing school and everything, I learn more about writers following that guy's Twitter account.
00:57:23.000 And I do gather that some writers are blown away and have fun writing.
00:57:27.000 To me, it's agonizing.
00:57:28.000 I can't stand it.
00:57:29.000 That's the weird thing about doing TV, is I love having written, you know?
00:57:36.000 When I write a book, I'm so...
00:57:39.000 It's just like a deep, deep satisfaction.
00:57:42.000 I love having done it.
00:57:44.000 When I die, if they chisel writer into my tombstone, I'd be very happy.
00:57:50.000 But I hate the act of writing.
00:57:53.000 Making TV is so fun.
00:57:55.000 Just in the moment, it's very fun.
00:57:57.000 I love going out and doing it.
00:57:59.000 But when it's said and done, I don't get that feeling like I slayed a dragon.
00:58:07.000 Like I would get from writing a book.
00:58:09.000 I know exactly what you're talking about.
00:58:11.000 When you're doing a television show, also, it's very different than most TV in that you're out there doing something that you enjoy anyway.
00:58:18.000 Exactly.
00:58:19.000 And there's a lot of people coming in on it.
00:58:21.000 So, writing is like me.
00:58:23.000 I mean, sure, I don't mean to in any way discount the role of an editor.
00:58:27.000 And I don't know if you do something similar with your stand-up if you show other comedians and stuff.
00:58:30.000 But you have a role of an editor.
00:58:32.000 So, I don't want to act like, oh, it's just all out of your head.
00:58:34.000 You know, my agent...
00:58:36.000 I work closely with, he influences things I do, my editor.
00:58:40.000 But in the end, it's like, kind of it's your thing, right?
00:58:43.000 TV's a whole bunch of people.
00:58:44.000 So you could go out and have a great thing, and then you turn it in, and the editor nails it.
00:58:48.000 So I can't go like, I made this amazing TV show, because it's like, there's the guy that produced it, the guys that shot it, the guys that edited it, right?
00:58:57.000 All that kind of stuff.
00:58:58.000 And so your sense of ownership becomes a little bit different.
00:59:00.000 You're like a stakeholder.
00:59:02.000 And not like the dude that owns the thing.
00:59:05.000 Yeah, there's so much going on.
00:59:07.000 There's music.
00:59:08.000 There's the way it's edited.
00:59:09.000 Oh, yeah.
00:59:10.000 Extremely.
00:59:10.000 It really has a massive impact on how it comes off as a piece.
00:59:15.000 Yeah, I think as a host, you know...
00:59:17.000 As a host and as a person who has a lot of sway in the kind of things we go do, I still feel like I'm kicking in 10 or 20%.
00:59:26.000 That's interesting.
00:59:27.000 And 80-90% is a handful of other people who are throwing in on it.
00:59:33.000 Nobody works harder than people who work on your show.
00:59:36.000 Like those camera dudes, like Dodie and Moe and all those guys who have to fucking sleep in tents in the back of that fucking van where the llamas piss and...
00:59:48.000 I really kind of love it.
00:59:50.000 I love those guys.
00:59:51.000 We just had this guy.
00:59:52.000 We wound up liking him.
00:59:54.000 We had a camera guy come out with us for the first time and he was just getting beat up.
01:00:00.000 He admitted it.
01:00:03.000 It kind of became the joke where he's saying to Doherty, he's like, man, you guys got to do a better job of explaining what this is.
01:00:12.000 Dan's like, I feel like I said it's like rigorous hiking.
01:00:15.000 He's like, yeah, but that's not this.
01:00:19.000 I thought like walking on a trail or something.
01:00:22.000 But there's no language to explain it.
01:00:24.000 I don't know why those guys...
01:00:26.000 I do know why.
01:00:27.000 I think one could look and be like, I don't understand why those guys would subject themselves to that level of treatment.
01:00:35.000 Because I've had the opportunity to work very briefly in what would be like network television, mainstream television.
01:00:41.000 And I'm telling you what, it's not typical.
01:00:45.000 What those guys do and the hours they do it is not typical.
01:00:45.000 What you do.
01:00:50.000 Not at all.
01:00:51.000 No.
01:00:51.000 I was shocked to hear like one time some guy was coming out with this and I knew it was going to be trouble because he's coming out and he's asking about what the hours are.
01:00:59.000 I'm like, I don't know.
01:01:00.000 We'll sleep at night.
01:01:03.000 24 hours a day are the hours.
01:01:05.000 When you're sleeping on the ground in Montana and it's zero degrees outside and you're fucking huddled up in your tent, you're kind of working still.
01:01:14.000 Oh, yeah.
01:01:15.000 Because you would never be there unless they were paying you to be there.
01:01:18.000 Even though you're off...
01:01:20.000 Still, you're subjecting yourself to sleeping on the ground in Montana in a tent.
01:01:24.000 You're freezing your dick off.
01:01:26.000 You have to flex and squeeze under your sleeping bag to generate some warmth before you can pass out.
01:01:32.000 You're kind of working.
01:01:33.000 Yeah, like Doty, Giannis, Moe, they just...
01:01:41.000 They like to be in some way tortured a little bit, I think.
01:01:43.000 And they also just like to be working.
01:01:46.000 I don't think that they...
01:01:47.000 The other thing is, I don't think they really...
01:01:50.000 They're at work, but I don't know how much they think about it being at work.
01:01:54.000 I see what you're saying.
01:01:56.000 I think they just think of it as existing.
01:01:58.000 Whoa.
01:02:00.000 I don't think they go like, oh now I'm going to work.
01:02:02.000 I think that they think of their lives more, their lives don't seem to, I don't think they think of their lives as having like, it's like, now I'm at work, now I'm at home, now I'm at work, now I'm at home.
01:02:09.000 I think like at home they're thinking about work stuff.
01:02:12.000 Oh, okay.
01:02:13.000 Do you know what I mean?
01:02:14.000 I feel like more that they don't look at it like, you know, punching the old clock.
01:02:18.000 It's my guess.
01:02:19.000 Well, it was funny because Mo and I had a conversation once about another show that he was working on and one of the guys that was on the other show.
01:02:25.000 And he was taking great pride in describing what a coward this guy was.
01:02:31.000 And it was not even great pride, but he was enjoying it.
01:02:34.000 He's like, he's yellow.
01:02:36.000 He was talking about it, but it was like, here's a guy.
01:02:41.000 That's been working on your show for several seasons and he's fucking undergone some horrendous locations and climbing to the top of fucking mountains while carrying a 50 pound camera and the whole deal.
01:02:52.000 I mean, these fucking cameras are no joke.
01:02:53.000 And hiking, just carrying a gun hiking is difficult.
01:02:56.000 Yeah.
01:02:57.000 There's all this sliding of the ground underneath you, and you're constantly going up, up, up, and you're, you know, essentially, like, you're doing, like, little mini squats all day long, and it's exhausting, and these guys are doing it with one arm holding a fucking camera.
01:03:10.000 Backwards.
01:03:11.000 Backwards.
01:03:11.000 It's like that old joke about Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, you know, like, she did everything Fred Astaire did backwards or something.
01:03:17.000 And heels or whatever it was.
01:03:17.000 Yeah, right.
01:03:19.000 Right, right.
01:03:20.000 Yeah.
01:03:20.000 You know, Moe's too good, though, man, like, We can't...
01:03:24.000 Mo's too good.
01:03:25.000 He's off doing other stuff.
01:03:27.000 It was like a treat to have him, but we're always trying to, but he's just in such demand.
01:03:34.000 He's nominated for all these Emmys all the time.
01:03:36.000 He won an Emmy.
01:03:38.000 He's nominated for an Emmy this year.
01:03:40.000 Well, your show stands out.
01:03:42.000 There's hunting shows, and then there's your show.
01:03:45.000 The only show that I've seen recently that does that as well, have you seen Uncharted, the Jim Shockey show?
01:03:51.000 No, but I know a lot of...
01:03:53.000 I know his stuff, I haven't seen that, but I know that...
01:03:57.000 That show is a highly respected show.
01:03:59.000 It's really good.
01:04:01.000 I've heard Doherty was telling me he said it's phenomenal.
01:04:03.000 I watched it the other day for the first time.
01:04:05.000 He was off in Pakistan.
01:04:06.000 And it was really intense because one of the guys that goes with him all the time, his wife didn't want him going to Pakistan.
01:04:12.000 I mean, she was like really scared.
01:04:13.000 And she was like, you know, it's so dangerous there.
01:04:16.000 He's got a wife and kids.
01:04:16.000 Please don't go.
01:04:18.000 And so he stayed back.
01:04:20.000 And, you know, Jim Shockey went by himself.
01:04:21.000 And they followed the guy who stayed back going on this trip.
01:04:25.000 To hunt deer.
01:04:27.000 And when he went on this trip at home in Texas to hunt deer, he was talking about his dad and a real scene.
01:04:35.000 Is that right?
01:04:36.000 Crying.
01:04:37.000 And it was really intense.
01:04:39.000 It was very, very, very intense.
01:04:39.000 That's great.
01:04:41.000 But in a way that a lot of those shows are so fucking bad.
01:04:45.000 Long before I got involved in...
01:04:48.000 TV and outdoor TV. It was like a thing you would always hear is friends of mine, guys I respected, would kind of be sort of dismissing outdoor television as a genre.
01:04:59.000 But the thing was always like, but Shockey's legit.
01:05:02.000 Or some such thing.
01:05:04.000 I mean, he's been around for so long.
01:05:06.000 But he's a highly respected figure.
01:05:08.000 There's this annual thing called Shot Show, and I see him.
01:05:11.000 You can't miss him.
01:05:11.000 I mean, the guy's huge.
01:05:12.000 Yeah.
01:05:13.000 He's kind of like the last great white hunter, you know?
01:05:16.000 Cowboy hat all the time.
01:05:17.000 Yeah, I see him and I always think I'm going to go up and say something to him.
01:05:21.000 You never have?
01:05:21.000 I never have.
01:05:22.000 Really?
01:05:22.000 No, no, no.
01:05:23.000 Oh, I would force myself to.
01:05:24.000 No, I never have.
01:05:25.000 I want to meet that guy.
01:05:26.000 And there's an amazing thing.
01:05:28.000 I mean, there's just some good clips of stuff he's done.
01:05:31.000 He's an articulate guy and goes to some cool places.
01:05:35.000 And you can tell his heart's in the right place, man.
01:05:37.000 I think he has an honest...
01:05:40.000 He has an honest affection for wildlife and wild places, for sure.
01:05:45.000 Yeah, for sure.
01:05:46.000 He also enjoys the roughing it aspect of it.
01:05:48.000 Like, he enjoys going to these ridiculous remote locations and hunting these very odd animals, very exotic animals.
01:05:57.000 He did something when they flew into Russia and they took these fucking weird SUV things.
01:06:03.000 I mean, I shouldn't even say SUV. These weird...
01:06:07.000 All-terrain vehicles that look like these military vehicles, deep, deep, deep in the mountains, like a 12-hour drive.
01:06:13.000 Yeah, he's been to some wild places.
01:06:15.000 To get some fucking weird ram, you know?
01:06:18.000 It was really intense.
01:06:20.000 It was unexpected.
01:06:22.000 I just was flipping through the channels, and it came on, and I'd seen his other show before.
01:06:26.000 And so this Uncharted thing, I'd seen all these ads for it, but...
01:06:29.000 Man, they were in Pakistan, and they had armed guards with them everywhere they went.
01:06:33.000 Guys with AK-47s, and it was pretty intense, because it's a fucking dangerous, dangerous place.
01:06:33.000 Was that right?
01:06:39.000 And he's out there wearing the traditional Muslim garb.
01:06:42.000 He wears the clothes that those people wear.
01:06:44.000 Oh, no kid, really?
01:06:45.000 You don't want to stand out.
01:06:46.000 You don't want to stand out as being a Westerner.
01:06:48.000 Guys like the Green Berets, man.
01:06:49.000 Yeah.
01:06:50.000 So he's wearing their outfits as he's hunting.
01:06:53.000 It's really intense.
01:06:54.000 And they're off in the fucking middle of, I mean, deep in the middle of nowhere, hunting some ram.
01:06:59.000 That's great.
01:07:00.000 I'm glad you liked that show because it's good to hear something out there that caught your eye.
01:07:05.000 It's really well done.
01:07:06.000 It's really well done.
01:07:07.000 But there's that show, your show, and then the rest of them.
01:07:10.000 There's some of them that look like they're made with a home movie camera and it's like a guy who's never even thought about making a show.
01:07:17.000 Sometimes that's true, man.
01:07:18.000 There's a guy I was talking to who makes the hunting show and one day we were talking and I was shocked to hear that he's a registered nurse who has a full-time job at a hospital.
01:07:30.000 And he makes a hunting show.
01:07:30.000 Whoa.
01:07:33.000 Yeah, he just burns it up, man.
01:07:34.000 Wow.
01:07:35.000 It's just something he wants to do and he just finds a way to make it happen.
01:07:38.000 Yeah, it's fucking hard.
01:07:40.000 Some of them, too, it's like there's some of them that are the same show always, which is so bizarre.
01:07:46.000 Yeah, that's the thing we have a conversation about is I wanted to go back and film next spring and I have a black bear permit for this regulatory year, which extends into next spring, for Prince of Wales.
01:08:01.000 I wanted to go back, and Doty was saying, we did a show out there on Prince of Wales last spring.
01:08:12.000 And went and found a lot of bears.
01:08:14.000 And in the end, I could have shot a bear.
01:08:17.000 I didn't because I just have this strange feeling sometimes.
01:08:21.000 Not strange.
01:08:21.000 Sometimes I just want to watch bears rather than shoot at them.
01:08:24.000 So we did a show about that.
01:08:26.000 And I wanted to go back this spring.
01:08:30.000 And Doherty was like, I just feel like anything we could have done out there, we've done.
01:08:34.000 And on one hand, I'm like, yeah, that's right.
01:08:35.000 We probably shouldn't go and do a show, an episode in the same place doing the same thing.
01:08:40.000 But on the other hand, I'm like, Bahamut, because some shows all it is, they don't do anything but hunt some lease they have for white-tailed deer.
01:08:49.000 Every single time.
01:08:50.000 Yeah.
01:08:51.000 The whole show is looking at camera photos from camera traps and them talking about the different stands that they have set up and then them up in the stand with a bow and arrow waiting for a fucking deer to come by.
01:09:04.000 I mean, that is every goddamn show.
01:09:06.000 It's always whitetail.
01:09:07.000 It's always in a tree stand.
01:09:08.000 It's always in the same sort of farmland on the edges of these cornfields.
01:09:12.000 And it's the same show every goddamn week.
01:09:14.000 And I guess people just like watching people hunt deer.
01:09:17.000 Do you enjoy it?
01:09:18.000 I watch them every now and then.
01:09:21.000 I like thinking, like, ooh, I wish I saw that deer when I was that close.
01:09:24.000 I'll shoot the shit out of that deer.
01:09:26.000 I have to feel like you'd learn a bunch of stuff eventually watching it.
01:09:29.000 Yeah, you definitely learn stuff.
01:09:31.000 You learn stuff about wind and placement and trails they walk and their behavior, like how they can kind of anticipate where they're coming through and how to pay attention to their trails.
01:09:41.000 One of them was interesting.
01:09:44.000 It was how to recognize the difference between the doe trails and the buck trails.
01:09:50.000 The doe trails were going straight across this riverbed area where there was a lot of mud.
01:09:55.000 You could see these does, large populations of animals going this way, and you see these animals that are crisscrossing.
01:10:01.000 Those are bucks.
01:10:02.000 Oh, is that right?
01:10:03.000 They're catching the scent.
01:10:04.000 They're catching the scent of these does.
01:10:07.000 I hadn't heard that.
01:10:08.000 No, it's interesting.
01:10:08.000 Oh, really?
01:10:09.000 That was solo hunting.
01:10:10.000 I don't know a ton about whitetails.
01:10:11.000 I mean, I grew up hunting whitetails, but we grew up hunting whitetails not probably using our heads as much as we might have.
01:10:18.000 You know?
01:10:18.000 Yeah.
01:10:20.000 We didn't need to, I guess.
01:10:22.000 We got deer.
01:10:23.000 Yeah, the time we went at Doug's Farm in Wisconsin, man, there's so many fucking deer.
01:10:28.000 It's crazy.
01:10:28.000 They're everywhere.
01:10:29.000 And there you're not playing...
01:10:30.000 This is the distinction I always make in hunting is...
01:10:33.000 I try to find those places where you're mostly thinking about animals.
01:10:40.000 And not so much thinking about hunters.
01:10:43.000 Well, you focused on that on your show, too, though.
01:10:45.000 The difference.
01:10:46.000 Like, the one time that you went and you were elk hunting in Montana and, you know, you were on your way after an elk and you see another fucking hunter that's doing the same thing.
01:10:54.000 Multiple times.
01:10:55.000 They're everywhere.
01:10:55.000 Yeah.
01:10:56.000 So you spend most of your time wondering about what other guys are doing and trying to capitalize on that or trying to anticipate the response of animals to that pressure, you know?
01:11:06.000 I so much rather...
01:11:09.000 Just be like in a one-on-one thing.
01:11:10.000 Next week we're going up to hunt moose up in the Brooks Range, you know, and it's one of the, you know, absolutely the most, one of the most remotest places, the most remote place in North America.
01:11:20.000 And up there it's like, there's really no, you don't have to factor in effects of other individuals.
01:11:28.000 You're just thinking about the animals, which is fun.
01:11:31.000 It's very rewarding, but it's just not what most people are up against.
01:11:35.000 When I was a kid and we were hunting whitetails, we really planned on people.
01:11:41.000 It was very important about where other guys were, what other guys' hunting schedules was like.
01:11:48.000 There's a guy we knew that would always say, if I see your guy's truck...
01:11:56.000 Coming down the driveway to the farm, I always go over to such and such place because I know that the way you guys move into your blinds, you're likely to bump a deer down such and such fence line.
01:12:07.000 So this guy's thinking about deer, sure, but he's thinking about it through the context of human activities.
01:12:13.000 So deer being scared by you into an area.
01:12:15.000 Yeah, he's like, you guys got that blind down in that area, and I know every time you go in there, you don't realize it because you're a dumbass, but when you go in there, you're bumping deer and they're going down that fence line.
01:12:23.000 So if I see your truck coming, I'm going to run over there.
01:12:26.000 Wow, that's interesting.
01:12:27.000 Which is a kind of thing.
01:12:28.000 And like elk, when I lived in Montana, our opening day plan was generally find out where elk are, where they've been for a couple weeks, and so the people will know they're there.
01:12:42.000 How are they going to leave that area within three minutes of legal shooting light on opening day?
01:12:48.000 And what saddle are they going to use when they pass out of that valley?
01:12:53.000 And you would pretty much plan that would be your thing.
01:12:56.000 I know where they're at.
01:12:57.000 I know that they're going to get bumped probably before legal light.
01:13:00.000 And where are they going to go after that?
01:13:02.000 I got a friend who has for the last 20 years been killing elk by.
01:13:10.000 He knows the spot that elk move into when they get pressured.
01:13:14.000 And he knows that some people can find these elk with spotting scopes.
01:13:18.000 And they'll find these elk on this mountainside.
01:13:20.000 He knows that there's no way to approach these elk on this mountainside without spooking them.
01:13:25.000 When he sees the elk have moved into this area, he'll watch them with his spotting scope, waiting to see someone else try to climb up and put a move on these elk.
01:13:36.000 When they start climbing up, when that guy sees them, he's going to go try to put a move on them.
01:13:41.000 He'll go down and ambush those elk three miles away from there.
01:13:45.000 Wow.
01:13:46.000 And he waits until someone sees them because he knows where they're going to go.
01:13:49.000 Because he knows the path they always take when they get scared.
01:13:52.000 And he calls it the laundry chute.
01:13:53.000 Because he said they come spilling through their laundry chute.
01:13:56.000 He's been doing it for 20 years.
01:13:58.000 Wow.
01:13:59.000 I really enjoyed that episode that you did this year in Kentucky.
01:14:02.000 Yeah.
01:14:03.000 Yeah, that was cool.
01:14:03.000 We went elk hunting in Kentucky because the situation is very unique in that they've reintroduced, successfully reintroduced elk into Kentucky and instead of like what you're looking at a western hunt where you look at these great wide open spaces and timber and you can see them in the distance,
01:14:19.000 instead you're looking at incredibly dense like We're good to go.
01:14:46.000 And there's like the eastern forests, there's sort of like the cacophony of noise in an eastern forest that you lack in the west.
01:14:55.000 Bugs and frogs.
01:14:56.000 Yeah, I mean the biodiversity is so much higher.
01:14:58.000 Not on large mammals, but the biodiversity of just stuff.
01:15:02.000 Is that because of moisture?
01:15:04.000 I don't know.
01:15:05.000 Quality of soil, moisture.
01:15:07.000 Yeah, I would guess moisture as a huge part of it.
01:15:10.000 And probably the fertility of the landscape.
01:15:12.000 Like the...
01:15:13.000 You know, how nutrient rich the soil is at some base level probably is what's at play.
01:15:18.000 Because the Pacific Northwest doesn't have those sounds.
01:15:21.000 And it's very moist.
01:15:23.000 That's why I was confusing.
01:15:23.000 Yeah, you're right.
01:15:25.000 I know guys that would be able to answer that.
01:15:27.000 I don't know.
01:15:28.000 I know that, for instance, I keep coming back around.
01:15:31.000 You can tell I'm so excited about our hunt on Prince of Wales Island.
01:15:33.000 I know my brother, who is an ecologist up there, that elevation band where Prince of Wales Island is, is sort of the richest marine environment.
01:15:46.000 Of anywhere.
01:15:47.000 Really?
01:15:48.000 Yeah, so that latitude band is an extremely rich marine environment there.
01:15:52.000 So the fishing there must be incredible.
01:15:54.000 Yeah, I mean, it's just everything.
01:15:56.000 It's just abuzz with life.
01:15:58.000 Are we going to fish there when we're there, too?
01:16:00.000 No.
01:16:01.000 No?
01:16:01.000 No.
01:16:03.000 There's a possibility, but probably not.
01:16:06.000 It gets a little bit late.
01:16:07.000 Like, fishing peaks, like July, August, is phenomenal.
01:16:10.000 It just kind of...
01:16:11.000 Halibut?
01:16:12.000 Yeah, but they...
01:16:13.000 Halibut's so much better in July and August.
01:16:15.000 I mean, we were just up there for my brother's bachelor party and did phenomenally well on halibut.
01:16:19.000 Yeah, Doug was sending me pictures.
01:16:20.000 Yeah, we got some doozies.
01:16:22.000 Enormous.
01:16:22.000 Yeah, some nice ones.
01:16:23.000 They're like tables.
01:16:24.000 So, in the beginning of that episode, just kind of standing there and...
01:16:30.000 And to hear that noise of the eastern forest, you know, and then to have it be that you're looking for elk is so...
01:16:36.000 It just feels weird for anyone familiar with that animal.
01:16:39.000 Yeah, Jamie pulled up a clip.
01:16:41.000 Pull up a clip so people can hear it, because it's pretty cool.
01:16:43.000 It's you in the forest, like, on your show, where you were explaining it and talking about it.
01:16:50.000 To distinguish the smell of where elk used to be and the smell of where elk are right now.
01:16:58.000 The smell of elk right now.
01:17:01.000 Seems to have like a warmth to it.
01:17:04.000 It's hard to explain, but you just kind of get a sense.
01:17:06.000 You'll smell it and you'll be like, that's elk.
01:17:09.000 That's not.
01:17:10.000 We're an elk word.
01:17:11.000 It's where elk are.
01:17:14.000 Here's a spot where Game's been bedded.
01:17:17.000 Little beds all over here.
01:17:21.000 It just makes sense.
01:17:21.000 It's hot.
01:17:29.000 Yeah, those things are cool looking.
01:17:30.000 It's like a ghost in the forest just shows up.
01:17:32.000 There they are, man.
01:17:33.000 It's so different.
01:17:34.000 It's so enormous, too.
01:17:35.000 So those things got wiped out of that area by 1820. You know, like Daniel Boone used to cross over.
01:17:45.000 To get down into the Kentucky hunting grounds, he would cross over to Cumberland Gap, which is very near there.
01:17:51.000 And then he would go to what we call the Bluegrass Hills.
01:17:56.000 And that was a more open environment and had a lot of elk.
01:18:00.000 And he would hunt the Bluegrass Hills for elk.
01:18:02.000 They'd hunt for deer and hunt for black bear, selling the meat and hides.
01:18:06.000 By the 1820, or thereabouts, the elk was just gone.
01:18:10.000 Okay, the buffalo got shot out.
01:18:12.000 Elk got shot out.
01:18:14.000 Deer remained.
01:18:15.000 Black bears remained.
01:18:16.000 Mountain lions were shot out.
01:18:18.000 Wolves were shot out.
01:18:20.000 And then they were gone for over 100 years.
01:18:23.000 And then they did all that mountaintop coal mining in Kentucky.
01:18:29.000 And after the reclamation process, they had chopped down, in the construction of these mines, they destroyed a lot of hardwood forests.
01:18:39.000 Deciduous hardwood forests.
01:18:40.000 Hickory, beach, oak, all kinds of stuff.
01:18:42.000 But when they reclaimed it, they left all these flat mountaintop areas that they just did in...
01:18:48.000 You know, grasses and other stabilizing vegetation, not timber.
01:18:51.000 And it created sort of this open savanna-like environment.
01:19:00.000 People recognized it would be a good place to put elk, and there wasn't a lot of resistance.
01:19:04.000 If you went into an agricultural area and decided, you know, we've got a great idea.
01:19:08.000 We're going to bring in thousands of seven, eight hundred pound herbivores and cut them loose out here, you would get a ton of resistance.
01:19:18.000 But the area is rural enough, and in the reclaimed coal country, there just wasn't a huge...
01:19:25.000 Interest in not putting them there.
01:19:27.000 So now they've got the biggest elk herd east of the Mississippi.
01:19:32.000 There's 10,000 plus elk running around in Kentucky.
01:19:35.000 But even still, elk are like 90% not recovered.
01:19:41.000 I mean, they were everywhere.
01:19:43.000 They were everywhere.
01:19:45.000 The weird thing about it is we could totally bring back way more than we have now, but you have a handful of interests that don't like that.
01:19:55.000 Auto insurers generally don't like it.
01:19:57.000 Agricultural interests don't like it.
01:19:58.000 But it's one of those things that we could fix, like that and the buffalo.
01:20:01.000 The only thing standing between us and restoring buffalo to more of their native range...
01:20:07.000 is popular conception, you know, popular perception of the issue.
01:20:12.000 The only thing standing between us and reintroducing elk to more and more of their native range is just selling it to the public.
01:20:18.000 Other problems we have You know, you look at something like acidification of the oceans, people are like, geez, I have no idea.
01:20:24.000 I don't know what...
01:20:25.000 There's no way, right?
01:20:27.000 It's impossible to fix this.
01:20:29.000 It's too expensive.
01:20:29.000 Whatever.
01:20:29.000 We don't know the science.
01:20:31.000 We don't understand the science of it.
01:20:32.000 But some stuff, like, when it comes to bringing big animals back, oftentimes it's just a matter of do we want to or not.
01:20:37.000 And in Kentucky, there was enough people that wanted to where they made it happen.
01:20:41.000 And now it's a thriving herd.
01:20:43.000 They're even using that herd.
01:20:44.000 They pulled animals.
01:20:45.000 The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation spearheaded this thing and provided much of the money and labor for it.
01:20:51.000 They pulled animals from...
01:20:53.000 I can't remember if it was 17 or 20 source sites, moved them into Kentucky.
01:20:57.000 Now Kentucky's a source site for other reintroductions.
01:20:59.000 So they're pulling animals out of Kentucky now and using them to reintroduce herds and other places where they were extirpated from.
01:21:05.000 What other places are they planting it now?
01:21:07.000 They've got some going into, I know in Virginia, they're bringing some in.
01:21:14.000 I'm not sure if they brought some into North Carolina, but North Carolina had native herds.
01:21:18.000 It's just an amazing animal.
01:21:20.000 The meat is so incredibly healthy.
01:21:22.000 It's really like a breast, a pound of chicken and a pound of elk.
01:21:28.000 The elk will have less cholesterol.
01:21:29.000 It's healthier for you, less fat, more protein.
01:21:32.000 It's the best meat out there, man.
01:21:34.000 As far as eating?
01:21:35.000 The taste of it?
01:21:37.000 There's no bad elk.
01:21:39.000 They're just good.
01:21:40.000 Even the big giant ones.
01:21:42.000 Yeah, they're just good, man.
01:21:43.000 My brother killed one one time.
01:21:44.000 He had a really hard...
01:21:45.000 It was just tough.
01:21:46.000 He hadn't aged it, but you need a nice facility.
01:21:51.000 To be able to consistently age stuff, because if the weather's against you, you can't age it.
01:21:56.000 Most people don't have a walk-in cooler where they can go hang 400, 500 pounds of meat.
01:22:01.000 And that is what an elk is.
01:22:02.000 So if you get one and it's hot, oftentimes you've got to get it into a freezer, and it'll age a little bit in the freezer.
01:22:07.000 But anyways, he killed one.
01:22:08.000 The flavor was great, but it was just a tough, tough, tough bull to chew on.
01:22:13.000 Just a big, muscular animal.
01:22:15.000 And it's just tough.
01:22:16.000 And it was funny, because he...
01:22:18.000 He started, the only vegetable he was interested in eating, I'm going to tell you this, was boiled cabbage.
01:22:24.000 Because he's like, I only have so much muscle power in my jaw, and I can't waste any of my jaw muscle power on anything but chewing my elk up.
01:22:38.000 So he would eat boiled cabbage and his elk.
01:22:41.000 Until he got done with it.
01:22:43.000 Let me tell you a funny story about this guy too.
01:22:46.000 His aversion to waste.
01:22:49.000 A buddy of ours got married one time and his bride's Neighbors were out of town during the wedding ceremonies.
01:22:59.000 The bride's neighbor says, well, I'll open my house up if you got some out-of-town guests who need a place to stay because I'm on vacation anyways.
01:23:08.000 So they give this house where it's just for the groomsmen to hang out.
01:23:14.000 Me and my brothers were the groomsmen and some other guys, and so we get to stay in this house.
01:23:19.000 During our stay, he has occasion, my brother Matt, has occasion to peek in the guy's freezer and sees in his freezer that he's got an elk he killed four years ago.
01:23:31.000 It's dated from four years ago.
01:23:34.000 And he has a moral crisis where he's like, is it worse to steal or is it worse to allow such a beautiful animal's flesh to go to waste when this guy inevitably...
01:23:49.000 We'll declare this freezer burned and throw it away.
01:23:51.000 Like if he was going to eat it, he would have ate it.
01:23:53.000 Right.
01:23:54.000 Three years ago.
01:23:54.000 Three and a half years ago.
01:23:56.000 So when we left, he had a bunch of that in his duffel bag and went home and ate it because he couldn't stomach the thought of that animal going to waste.
01:24:05.000 Like his reverence for it is so high that he can't allow someone else to trifle with it.
01:24:13.000 How many years is an animal good in a freezer?
01:24:15.000 I'm telling you what, man.
01:24:17.000 It depends on the animal.
01:24:18.000 Lean stuff like elk.
01:24:20.000 If you trim away...
01:24:21.000 Okay, lean stuff like hooved animals, hooved game animals.
01:24:26.000 If you trim away the fat, which we don't call fat, we call tallow, it's waxy.
01:24:30.000 If you trim that stuff away and you either seal it with a vacuum sealer and then don't mess with the bag, like don't poke any holes in the bag so that the seal stays good and treat it very gently so that the seal stays intact.
01:24:48.000 Or you wrap it in saran wrap and then wrap it in wax freezer paper.
01:24:54.000 You could not Pepsi challenge that stuff if it was a year old against stuff that was a month old.
01:24:59.000 What about two years, three years, four years?
01:25:01.000 I've done it at two.
01:25:02.000 Two is, for me personally, the longest out I've gone is two.
01:25:07.000 I've heard of people going more.
01:25:08.000 And at two...
01:25:11.000 When you thaw it and you look at it, you can tell something happened to it, but you can trim it up and have it be.
01:25:17.000 And I've served old stuff like that to my wife.
01:25:19.000 The only time it happens to me is if I wind up having something get kind of lost in my freezer.
01:25:24.000 If you don't practice good freezer management.
01:25:26.000 Like I try to do what would be last in first out, right?
01:25:30.000 But now and then just something happens and you lose track of something and you find some old thing.
01:25:34.000 I've served stuff to my wife that was two years old and she didn't flag it.
01:25:39.000 While eating it.
01:25:40.000 Do you use her as an experiment?
01:25:42.000 No, just do it.
01:25:43.000 She'll call me out.
01:25:45.000 She eats more wild game meat than most people.
01:25:48.000 She eats wild game meat every night.
01:25:50.000 That's all you have in your house, right?
01:25:51.000 When we're at home, we just eat game meat.
01:25:52.000 Lately, we've been eating salmon and halibut, which you can't really complain about.
01:25:56.000 She's eaten tons of it.
01:25:58.000 Recently, I'm trying to get this overturned, but right now there's a moratorium on bear meat.
01:26:07.000 In your house?
01:26:08.000 Yeah.
01:26:08.000 Because you got tricking those.
01:26:09.000 Yeah, so her and my kids, she said that you will not serve bear meat to my kids.
01:26:15.000 Oh, wow, because of you getting that illness.
01:26:17.000 Because I got the worm.
01:26:18.000 I got worms.
01:26:18.000 But you only get that illness if you undercook it.
01:26:20.000 It's like 150 degrees, right?
01:26:22.000 Isn't that what it is?
01:26:22.000 Yep.
01:26:23.000 And I tried to explain that.
01:26:25.000 So, this spring we hunted black bears.
01:26:31.000 We hunted black bears in the Alaska range.
01:26:33.000 I took a guy hunting who you should have on this show at some point.
01:26:36.000 A guy named Rourke Denver.
01:26:38.000 He's a He's just leaving the service now.
01:26:42.000 He's a Navy SEAL commander.
01:26:45.000 He wrote a book called Damn Few, Making the Modern SEAL Warrior.
01:26:48.000 You remember a few years ago when that movie Active Valor came out and it was all active duty SEALs?
01:26:52.000 He's one of the stars in that movie.
01:26:55.000 Took him out bear hunting.
01:26:57.000 He grew up fishing and liked to fish a lot.
01:26:59.000 Hadn't done any hunting, but definitely grew up in the out of doors.
01:27:03.000 Obviously, over the last 13-14 years, they've been just...
01:27:07.000 He's been just consumed by training and being deployed again and again and again to Iraq and Afghanistan.
01:27:14.000 So he hasn't messed around outside, even though it was very important to him growing up.
01:27:18.000 He just, like I say, he's leaving the service now.
01:27:20.000 I took him out on a hunt, and we went up black bear hunting.
01:27:25.000 And in the end, we got on this big black bear and called him with a predator call, and he killed the bear, and we walked him.
01:27:32.000 It's a big boar.
01:27:33.000 It's like a six and a half foot boar.
01:27:36.000 And I said, and we're cutting it up, and I'm saying to him on camera, I'm like, I'm telling you what, man, if a bear is going to have trichinosis, it's going to be him.
01:27:43.000 And what I'm talking about was, Montana used to do free, they used to do free testing for trichinosis.
01:27:52.000 So you could send in a, they asked for specifically a golf ball sized piece of the tongue.
01:27:58.000 And you could send it into the MSU, and an MSU would send you the results on your bear.
01:28:03.000 The first bear I ever sent in for testing was from a 17-year-old black bear.
01:28:10.000 Whoa!
01:28:11.000 And that bear meat came back positive.
01:28:12.000 Besides steaks and roasts, I had 83 pounds of ground meat off that black bear.
01:28:17.000 It was a big bear.
01:28:20.000 So I send the thing and it comes back and it's positive.
01:28:22.000 And once it's positive, you are excused from wanton waste laws.
01:28:26.000 So it's illegal to waste game meat.
01:28:30.000 They spell out in great detail what you're obligated to retain on an animal and use.
01:28:35.000 There's some areas in Alaska, for instance, where if you kill a moose, you have to bring the liver home.
01:28:41.000 It's specified.
01:28:42.000 Legally, you're obligated to salvage the liver.
01:28:44.000 So they sent a thing saying, we're not going to give you a new bear tag, but you're excusing if you want to discard the meat, you can discard the meat.
01:28:51.000 And I was like, there's no way I'm going to do that.
01:28:53.000 The only thing worse to me than getting trigonosis was throwing away this bear meat.
01:28:58.000 So I just got a meat thermometer, a nice one, and ate the whole bear.
01:29:04.000 I never got another bear tested.
01:29:07.000 And they told me, I read this thing, they did this study in Montana where these two counties in northwest Montana that have really high bear populations.
01:29:15.000 It's Lincoln County and Sanders County.
01:29:17.000 And they said that they've never tested a bear from those counties that was over six years of age that didn't have trichinosis.
01:29:24.000 So trichinosis is just something like you're not born with it, right?
01:29:26.000 You eat infected meat and...
01:29:31.000 You can track the disease, and then you wind up having those little cysts, the larvae in your muscle tissue, and it just is passed along through consumption.
01:29:39.000 It's the reason you're supposed to cook pork to well done, and now it's not really that way anymore because they've gotten it out of domestic pork so much because when they stop feeding pigs restaurant slop, they really cut trichinosis out because what they realize is when they're feeding pigs restaurant slop,
01:29:57.000 you're inadvertently giving them rats and mice I think?
01:30:31.000 I'm explaining all this to Rourke.
01:30:36.000 And the next day...
01:30:40.000 I'm explaining another interesting thing about black bear meat, how there's a lot of variability in black bear meat.
01:30:44.000 Some are great, some are not so great.
01:30:46.000 So I'm talking about when I kill a bear, I'm always really interested to get a taste of it to see if we're dealing with, if we got gold or bronze, right?
01:30:55.000 And we start a fire and it's raining.
01:30:58.000 And we start a little fire and skewer up just some pieces just to sample it.
01:31:01.000 And it's raining and we're feeding it the firewood and everything's wet and it's just a pain in the ass trying to get it cooked.
01:31:06.000 And eventually I kind of peel this piece apart in my hands.
01:31:11.000 I'm like, yeah, you know, we're cool.
01:31:13.000 We're cool.
01:31:14.000 So there's six of us.
01:31:17.000 We eat it.
01:31:18.000 I never think another thing about it, right?
01:31:20.000 So, the next day we cook some shanks, but we cook the piss out of these shanks.
01:31:25.000 Like, we make asabuco braised shanks and cook them for five or six hours, right?
01:31:29.000 We eat a whole bunch of that, eat some grayling, eat some rainbow trout, go home, a month goes by, and I get, the shit's real bad.
01:31:38.000 So, and it's like a weird kind of the shits.
01:31:41.000 So I sent a text message to the guys I work with saying, does anybody have like a weird kind of the shits?
01:31:47.000 Because I'm worried that we got Giardi or something or Cryptosporidia from water contamination.
01:31:53.000 And one of the guys writes back and he says, no, but man, do I got some bizarre muscle aches, you know?
01:32:01.000 Now, yeah, well, never mind that.
01:32:02.000 I'm worried about my shits.
01:32:03.000 You know, I'm not worried about your problem.
01:32:04.000 So a couple of days later, I remember I'm like crossing the street and I'm like, God, that's a weird feeling in my back, you know, and it just got worse and worse and worse.
01:32:12.000 And I eventually texted this guy and I'm like, what were you saying about muscle aches, dude?
01:32:18.000 And it wound up four of us.
01:32:20.000 All had it.
01:32:21.000 And when we started putting it together, it was like, we all have the same weird thing.
01:32:25.000 Intense muscle pain in our calves.
01:32:28.000 Intense muscle pain in our necks.
01:32:30.000 Fevers.
01:32:31.000 And we haven't seen each other for a month.
01:32:33.000 And we all got sick on July 5. So it was like, this isn't the common cold.
01:32:40.000 So there's an incubation period.
01:32:42.000 A month.
01:32:43.000 What happens is you eat...
01:32:44.000 The only thing that can liberate those larvae from their cysts is stomach acid.
01:32:51.000 So when you consume the meat, your stomach acid dissolves the thing and liberates the larva.
01:32:59.000 And you got boys and girls in there.
01:33:01.000 And it takes them forever.
01:33:02.000 It takes them weeks.
01:33:03.000 They build up their numbers, you know, they get kicking ass.
01:33:05.000 Then they get into your bloodstream, the larva do.
01:33:08.000 And then about a month into it, the larva start burrowing out of your vascular system.
01:33:14.000 And getting into your muscle tissue.
01:33:17.000 Whoa!
01:33:17.000 When they start setting up shop.
01:33:19.000 Oh my god!
01:33:20.000 So, the CDC gets involved in this.
01:33:26.000 I was now in Kings County, okay?
01:33:28.000 They sent me a thing recently where no one in Kings County has had...
01:33:33.000 Well, like, last year in the whole country, there was like 11 or 12 cases of trichinosis in the whole country.
01:33:39.000 No one in Kings County had it in four or five years.
01:33:41.000 The last guy that had it, I think a guy in...
01:33:45.000 I think a guy in 2007 or 2011. I can't remember which.
01:33:48.000 Where's Kings County?
01:33:49.000 Seattle area.
01:33:51.000 He had it from making homemade mountain lion jerky.
01:33:55.000 Like the only guy.
01:33:57.000 So they're all excited.
01:33:58.000 And they want me to give them a piece of the meat.
01:34:01.000 And I give them a piece of that meat.
01:34:03.000 They come in the car and I go down and hand them a shank off this bear.
01:34:07.000 And I told her, I said, if you eat that, cook it.
01:34:09.000 And she tests it and they get back to me a while later.
01:34:12.000 And that thing had 868 larvae per gram.
01:34:17.000 Which is something like 460,000 larvae per pound.
01:34:20.000 Oh my god.
01:34:21.000 There's these blown up images of it.
01:34:23.000 And it's just like...
01:34:25.000 It's just larva.
01:34:27.000 So the whole meat is just infested.
01:34:28.000 It's just infested with larva.
01:34:30.000 That bear must be in misery all the time.
01:34:32.000 I don't know what he's thinking.
01:34:34.000 But I'm fine now.
01:34:36.000 So out of the four of us that get sick, I go down and they say in severe cases, if it attacks your pulmonary system, if the larva attack your heart, there's a medication you take.
01:34:52.000 I say, well, I'm just going to take the medication.
01:34:54.000 And they're like, well, you know, you might not need to.
01:34:56.000 I said, well, I want to go take it.
01:34:57.000 I go down, and that medication is $2,400.
01:35:00.000 Even with health insurance, it's $1,100 to buy the medication.
01:35:03.000 So the other guys are like, well, I'll just wait and see what happens to you.
01:35:07.000 We all get better at the same time.
01:35:09.000 And that medication only kills them in your stomach, right?
01:35:13.000 So for 6 to 10 years, depending on your source, if you were to eat me, So I don't know if that means I have 868 larvae per gram.
01:35:27.000 I just have a hard time fathoming that.
01:35:30.000 But we're all positive.
01:35:31.000 We're positive carriers.
01:35:34.000 Wow.
01:35:35.000 So you, right now, have those things in your muscle tissue.
01:35:39.000 That's my understanding.
01:35:40.000 I read a lot about this, as you can imagine.
01:35:43.000 I was very curious about it.
01:35:45.000 I always thought when you got trichinosis, you died.
01:35:48.000 Kind of.
01:35:49.000 I didn't know.
01:35:50.000 I don't know what I thought.
01:35:51.000 I've been writing about this and talking about this on TV for 10 years.
01:35:57.000 Telling people, and by the way, make sure to...
01:35:59.000 But you know, they say familiarity breeds complacency.
01:36:02.000 I thought it was contempt.
01:36:04.000 Is that what it is?
01:36:05.000 Yeah.
01:36:05.000 No, well then that's my new saying.
01:36:09.000 Because I felt like...
01:36:10.000 I don't know why.
01:36:12.000 I can sit here right now and picture the piece of meat that I'm sure got me sick.
01:36:16.000 Wow.
01:36:17.000 So...
01:36:18.000 I don't know what I was thinking, man.
01:36:19.000 So that's all in your body?
01:36:20.000 My wife's like, it's so embarrassing.
01:36:22.000 She's like, you're supposed to be like the meat eater.
01:36:23.000 I'm like, you know what, though?
01:36:26.000 And I was embarrassed.
01:36:27.000 And it's embarrassing, right?
01:36:28.000 But at the same time, I'm like, you know what?
01:36:29.000 Where do all the mountaineers die?
01:36:31.000 They die on the mountain.
01:36:33.000 Yeah.
01:36:34.000 So it's not like, oh, you should be the last guy to die in the mountain.
01:36:36.000 You claim to be this big mountaineer.
01:36:38.000 It's like, well, you know what?
01:36:39.000 Exposure.
01:36:40.000 I don't know.
01:36:41.000 That's just my way of hiding the fact that it was really stupid.
01:36:44.000 It was a stupid thing to do.
01:36:45.000 And I remember Doherty saying, are you sure you want people to know that this happened to you?
01:36:49.000 Because isn't it kind of embarrassing to you?
01:36:50.000 And I'm like, yeah, it's embarrassing to me, but I'm just going to talk about it.
01:36:53.000 Cookie bear meat.
01:36:54.000 So, yeah, my wife's like, no way.
01:36:57.000 We're just done with the bear meat thing.
01:36:59.000 And at my brother's wedding, at his rehearsal dinner, we're doing all wild game for his rehearsal dinner.
01:37:04.000 So I had smoked up a ham off this bear that I'm going to serve at his rehearsal dinner.
01:37:10.000 He says, don't tell anybody about the worm deal because it'll turn him off to the whole damn meal.
01:37:19.000 And I said, well, I feel now like I'll have to say this has been cooked, but FYI, I got trichinosis from eating this bear uncooked.
01:37:29.000 And he thinks that, he's just like, I'd rather you not serve it than serve it and bring it up.
01:37:36.000 Whoa.
01:37:36.000 Because I think you should serve it.
01:37:38.000 And in the end, I decided not to serve it at his wedding.
01:37:40.000 I would have eaten it, as long as it's cooked to 150 degrees, especially smoked.
01:37:44.000 I know, but people aren't like that, man.
01:37:48.000 People aren't like that.
01:37:49.000 I smoked that ham from that pig that we shot, and I did it in your method with the brine.
01:37:56.000 Oh, my God.
01:37:56.000 It was some of the best-tasting meat I've ever had.
01:37:59.000 It was unbelievable.
01:37:59.000 I'm telling you, man.
01:38:00.000 And that son of a bitch probably has...
01:38:01.000 I mean, not probably, but there's a very good chance he's got it.
01:38:04.000 They eat meat.
01:38:05.000 Yeah.
01:38:05.000 Yeah.
01:38:05.000 Yeah, it was so tender and delicious, but I've cooked a bunch of it, just put it on the grill, just seasoned it and put it on the grill, and it's amazing how tough it is.
01:38:15.000 Yeah, it can be tough.
01:38:16.000 You gotta chew through that shit, but it tastes good.
01:38:18.000 Did you get a grinder?
01:38:19.000 Yeah, I got a grinder.
01:38:20.000 Yeah.
01:38:20.000 I got a grinder for the venison after Wisconsin.
01:38:23.000 Callan and I, we made buckets of hamburger meat.
01:38:26.000 That's good.
01:38:27.000 Oh, it's so good.
01:38:28.000 And you can grind up that wild pork, too.
01:38:30.000 Yeah.
01:38:31.000 I'd be curious just to take a piece of that wild pork and send it in and see if it has trichinosis or not.
01:38:37.000 Do you want me to?
01:38:38.000 I'll send it in.
01:38:39.000 I don't know.
01:38:39.000 I mean, what is that?
01:38:40.000 I don't know.
01:38:41.000 What would you do with the information if you knew?
01:38:43.000 Make sure I did what I'm already doing, I guess.
01:38:46.000 Exactly.
01:38:46.000 Yeah, I mean, when I cooked it, I cooked it, the smoked ham, I cooked for like fucking 10 hours or something crazy.
01:38:53.000 It took forever.
01:38:54.000 And you get it up to the right temperature.
01:38:55.000 Some people even say...
01:38:59.000 Like, Harold McGee's Science and Lore of the Kitchen, or Science and Lore of Cooking, whatever it is.
01:39:03.000 It's a great...
01:39:03.000 It's like the science of food and food cooking and ingredients.
01:39:07.000 It's a phenomenal reference book.
01:39:09.000 In there, he says it seems to be...
01:39:11.000 I think it was in his book.
01:39:13.000 He says it seems that there's evidence to suggest that freezing kills it.
01:39:18.000 Though the USDA still sticks to that guideline of cooking temperature.
01:39:22.000 But that, like, prolonged freezing kills it.
01:39:24.000 But...
01:39:25.000 A couple years ago, a couple guys got trichinoluses from walrus meat in Alaska.
01:39:30.000 Fucking walrus.
01:39:31.000 Yeah.
01:39:31.000 So, however that son of a bitch got it, but the walrus had it.
01:39:36.000 And they think that there might be...
01:39:38.000 This worm is Trichinella spiralis, I think is his name.
01:39:42.000 I got pictures of the thing on my phone, what the worm looks like.
01:39:44.000 So, they think there might be some northern varieties...
01:39:52.000 In walrus and polar bear that are less susceptible to freezing.
01:39:57.000 Hmm.
01:39:58.000 And that perhaps that freezing is not to be relied on when killing these worms.
01:40:03.000 That it's a different northern variety that's just got more tolerance?
01:40:07.000 And again, man, this is just something I read.
01:40:09.000 Who the fuck is eating polar bear and walrus?
01:40:11.000 Wow, people like walrus.
01:40:13.000 Really?
01:40:14.000 There's a guy, you know, it's funny, I've never had it, but I've been arranging to have some because I drew a muskox tag for Nunavac Island this winter.
01:40:23.000 And when you hunt Nunavac Island, if you draw that tag, you have to hire what's called a transporter.
01:40:28.000 Because the only place to land is a Mikoruk on Nunavac, and it's a native village.
01:40:34.000 It's an Inuit or Eskimo village.
01:40:36.000 And your transporter can't do guide services.
01:40:41.000 He can't tell you where an animal is, but he provides transportation.
01:40:44.000 So you rent snow machines.
01:40:47.000 Or however you're getting around.
01:40:48.000 And he'll give you a place to stay when you're on the island.
01:40:50.000 It's called a transporter.
01:40:52.000 The transporter that I'm using is a walrus hunter.
01:40:55.000 So they're protected by the Marine Mammal Protection Act.
01:40:59.000 So white guys don't go hunt walrus.
01:41:02.000 But natives who aren't We're good to go.
01:41:13.000 We're good to go.
01:41:17.000 We're good to go.
01:41:32.000 Goes on the walrus hunts.
01:41:34.000 So I've been encouraging him to make sure to have some, because I'd like to eat it when I come out, and I'd like to do a thing about that and hang out with this guy and eat walrus meat.
01:41:43.000 And he says he's going to make sure to have some on hand.
01:41:45.000 And are walruses, like when you hunt a walrus, you're allowed to eat the meat, but you're not allowed to hunt it.
01:41:53.000 But if someone could give it to you, could you bring it back?
01:41:57.000 I don't know about...
01:41:57.000 You can't bring the ivory back.
01:41:59.000 I don't know about transporting the meat.
01:42:00.000 That's a good question.
01:42:01.000 But yeah, I could go into his home.
01:42:03.000 And I don't even know the extent of it.
01:42:04.000 But I can go into his home and he can serve me a meal.
01:42:07.000 Just like people might go up to Nome or whatever and sample muck tuck from whale.
01:42:12.000 But no, I'm fairly certain that he could not give me the ivory.
01:42:19.000 Because there's the ivory band, so ivory has to have a cultural marking on it.
01:42:24.000 You're supposed to turn to artwork.
01:42:26.000 So a lot of times, sea otters were nearly extirpated.
01:42:30.000 In some places, regionally extirpated by the fur trade, particularly when the Russians had a strong presence in Alaska.
01:42:37.000 And now sea otter numbers are really recovered in a lot of areas.
01:42:41.000 But still, for natives that are allowed to trap sea otters, they can't just sell the pelt as a pelt.
01:42:48.000 They have to do something to it to make it a cultural item, at which point they can exchange it for money.
01:42:54.000 So if a native hunter kills a walrus, he can do scrimshaw on that tusk.
01:43:02.000 And that puts that tusk in a different legal framework than it would what they call raw ivory.
01:43:08.000 Hmm, that's fascinating.
01:43:10.000 So I know, but yeah, he can serve me a piece of walrus meat, but I don't know what laws govern me walking away with some, I have no idea.
01:43:18.000 Now, seals, they eat seals as well, and they're allowed to hunt and eat seals, the natives and the Inuits.
01:43:25.000 Again, it's self-governed.
01:43:27.000 I watched Bourdain's show, and he was with this Inuit family, and they were eating a seal, and they butchered the whole thing.
01:43:34.000 Yeah, that was in northern Canada, right?
01:43:36.000 There's like an autonomous zone there.
01:43:39.000 The name escapes you right now, but yeah, I know what you're talking about.
01:43:42.000 And they were eating it raw.
01:43:43.000 Yeah.
01:43:44.000 That doesn't have trichinosis.
01:43:45.000 I have no idea.
01:43:47.000 I don't know if people were surprised to hear that walruses had trichinosis.
01:43:50.000 What does a walrus eat?
01:43:52.000 Well, they eat a lot of, you know, clams, crabs.
01:43:57.000 I just don't know enough.
01:43:59.000 I don't know enough about how that thing got it.
01:44:01.000 I don't know enough about what kind of sea animals have that stuff.
01:44:05.000 I mean, was he eating a chunk of polar bear that he found frozen?
01:44:08.000 I have no idea.
01:44:09.000 I would love to know.
01:44:10.000 When I had Lyme disease, I did tons of...
01:44:13.000 I could have gotten an honorary PhD in Lyme disease after having Lyme disease, and then when I got trigonosis, I started reading everything I could find about trigonosis, but that just got better one day.
01:44:22.000 That's wild.
01:44:23.000 I quit reading about it.
01:44:25.000 You just felt better?
01:44:26.000 How long did it take?
01:44:27.000 Six, seven days.
01:44:29.000 One of the guys that had it, he was running 103.9 degree fever for six days, and they're checking him for dengue fever, West Nile virus.
01:44:37.000 He had no idea he'd even bring this up.
01:44:39.000 One of the dude's girlfriends is a doctor, and she says, finally, I think you boys got trichinosis.
01:44:45.000 I go into a doctor, and I'm like, here's what I think I got.
01:44:48.000 And they didn't know what the hell I was talking about.
01:44:52.000 Well, you said 12 cases a year in the entire country?
01:44:54.000 Yeah, they never see it.
01:44:55.000 And there's four of you.
01:44:55.000 One of them asked me how to spell it.
01:44:57.000 One thought I was talking about a venereal disease called trichomoniasis.
01:45:03.000 But I eventually convinced them, man.
01:45:05.000 Just like when I had Lyme disease, I walked around having to convince people that I had that.
01:45:09.000 Well, Lyme disease is really common, though.
01:45:11.000 Super common.
01:45:11.000 That I don't understand.
01:45:12.000 But it just depends on what that particular, I'll use the term, what that particular healthcare provider has run into.
01:45:19.000 And you go in and say, like, oh, I'm not feeling so hot, you know, and this and that.
01:45:22.000 I think I got Lyme disease.
01:45:24.000 It's just like not, you know, yeah, I think if you're in Hudson Valley, New York, you're going to walk in, they're going to be like, hell yeah, you got Lyme disease.
01:45:30.000 But in some places, they're going to be like, eh, I don't know.
01:45:32.000 I don't know what you got.
01:45:33.000 Is it weird when you talk to some...
01:45:35.000 I mean, doctors are dismissive of things, like real dismissive, and then it turns out that you were right.
01:45:40.000 That's got to be infuriating, isn't it?
01:45:44.000 That's what I ran into, and I've told this story a thousand times, but when my boy...
01:45:50.000 Thank God he didn't get trichinosis.
01:45:51.000 He got Lyme disease.
01:45:52.000 He and I got Lyme disease at the same time fishing bluegills.
01:45:56.000 I was at my mom's in Michigan.
01:46:00.000 My mom comes up.
01:46:01.000 She was swimming with the boy.
01:46:02.000 My mom lives on the same lake I grew up on.
01:46:03.000 She was swimming with the boy down on the lake.
01:46:06.000 She comes up and says, why is his belly button all red like this?
01:46:10.000 I can't tell what happened there.
01:46:12.000 It turned into one of those bullseye rashes.
01:46:15.000 My wife, I send my wife a text image, like a text message picture of this thing.
01:46:21.000 And my wife right away is like, I wonder if he's got Lyme disease.
01:46:23.000 It looks like one of those bullseye rashes.
01:46:24.000 They talk about Lyme disease.
01:46:26.000 So she tells me to send it to his pediatrician.
01:46:29.000 Because I had him at my mom's.
01:46:31.000 You know, she wasn't there.
01:46:31.000 She's like, send it to his pediatrician.
01:46:32.000 I sent it to his pediatrician and be like, we're worried about what he's got Lyme.
01:46:35.000 She's like, well, just keep an eye on it.
01:46:37.000 But you don't keep an eye on those things because those things just go away.
01:46:39.000 They don't last forever.
01:46:41.000 So all of a sudden, then it's gone.
01:46:42.000 But clearly, he had it.
01:46:45.000 And so then we wind up going down there because then he gets another one somewhere else.
01:46:50.000 And we go down and we're like, we're really concerned he's got Lyme because he gets this bullseye rash.
01:46:54.000 And they're like, well, where is it?
01:46:55.000 I'm like, well, it's not there now, but it was there.
01:46:57.000 And he keeps talking about this and that and the other thing, different symptoms he's having.
01:47:03.000 We take him in three times, each time bringing up, I fear that this is what's going on with him.
01:47:08.000 When we pull him out of the bathtub for whatever reason in the hot water, he's got these damn circles all over him, but they kind of go away.
01:47:16.000 Eventually he's got Bell's palsy.
01:47:19.000 He'd take a sip of milk and his milk would run out the corner of his mouth.
01:47:22.000 And we'd go in there like, holy shit, he's got Lyme disease.
01:47:26.000 At this point, it's been going on for weeks, you know?
01:47:28.000 And what's funny is, this place, his pediatrician has a newsletter, and they had a newsletter article that was about Lyme hysteria, about how everyone's so hysterical about Lyme, being like, don't really need to worry about it,
01:47:44.000 you know, everybody's getting hysterical about Lyme, like it's the new bogeyman, you know?
01:47:49.000 So in this altercation we have with the pediatrician, I'm like, I feel that your Lyme hysteria thinking and your Lyme hysteria article kind of colored your impression of what I'm telling you when we're coming and you're telling you, and we had to self-diagnose our child.
01:48:03.000 At which point they said, I want to have someone else in the room during this discussion.
01:48:07.000 They said that?
01:48:08.000 Yeah, because we were pissed.
01:48:10.000 Well, you easily could have sued the shit out of them if you were so inclined.
01:48:14.000 Listen, and I don't worry about thinking that stuff, but I mean, I... I entertained all kinds of ideas if he didn't get better.
01:48:20.000 But he responded so quickly to medication.
01:48:24.000 But it was unbelievable.
01:48:25.000 And meanwhile, I had all the same stuff.
01:48:27.000 And I thought it was psychosomatic.
01:48:28.000 I wound up having to do the...
01:48:31.000 Intravenous stuff.
01:48:31.000 You know, Dougherty, he was in the hospital with Lyme meningitis.
01:48:35.000 Well, when I ran into you last time we went hunting together, you were really skinny, and I was like, dude, you look like you lost a lot of weight.
01:48:41.000 I lost a ton of weight during all that.
01:48:42.000 You told me the whole story behind it.
01:48:44.000 I was even trying to drink milkshakes and stuff.
01:48:47.000 I was down at GNC trying to do stuff.
01:48:49.000 Weight gainer, all that stuff?
01:48:50.000 Yeah, I had some wilderness athletes send me.
01:48:54.000 I was just trying to do anything I could do to put on weight.
01:48:56.000 Wow.
01:48:57.000 It knocked my dick in the dirt bad, man.
01:48:59.000 I bet.
01:49:00.000 I've heard nothing but horror stories about people getting Lyme disease.
01:49:03.000 Nothing but horror stories.
01:49:05.000 And then not only that, your body doesn't really ever get rid of it, right?
01:49:09.000 No, it's unclear.
01:49:13.000 The established scholarly consensus on Lyme, I think, is still this.
01:49:19.000 That there's no such thing as chronic Lyme, is what they'll say.
01:49:22.000 When I say they, I mean the medical establishment will say that Chronic Lyme doesn't exist.
01:49:29.000 There's Lyme disease.
01:49:31.000 When you go through treatment, like when I did the 28-day intravenous deal, they put a line that goes in your arm, up to your heart, and you inject these syringes in it.
01:49:38.000 When you get done with that, you do not have those bacteria in your body anymore.
01:49:42.000 If you go to a Lyme specialist and you tell a Lyme specialist, I have chronic Lyme, I met one.
01:49:48.000 I tried to get in to see one of these Lyme specialists, and she said, I don't see chronic Lyme patients.
01:49:56.000 I see acute Lyme patients.
01:49:58.000 And I had already done one round of antibiotics and I got worse during the round of oral.
01:50:03.000 And she's like, oh, you're chronic Lyme, meaning like, oh, it's all in your head.
01:50:06.000 What?
01:50:07.000 So I go to another infectious disease person.
01:50:09.000 I was talking to them and they said, well, it's like, it just seems kind of, it's an urban, chronic Lyme's an urban legend.
01:50:15.000 My finding wound up in some way burying out what she said would happen where I finished the stuff.
01:50:20.000 I think I got done with it sometime in September.
01:50:22.000 And by November, my symptoms were gone.
01:50:25.000 That's me.
01:50:26.000 My boy got better.
01:50:27.000 But I've since then met other people who are very credible individuals, who are not hysterical people, who've been through various rounds of treatment, and they're not getting better.
01:50:40.000 The arthritic stuff.
01:50:42.000 And Lyme's such a weird thing.
01:50:43.000 With my kid, you can't argue with Bell's palsy.
01:50:46.000 It's just right there.
01:50:48.000 But other stuff like- For folks who don't know what that means, if it's paralysis of the skin.
01:50:50.000 Yeah, facial paralysis.
01:50:51.000 I mean, he had bad facial paralysis.
01:50:54.000 So you can't argue with it, right?
01:50:55.000 It's just glaring.
01:50:56.000 And that's one of the key.
01:50:57.000 That's one of the bullseye rash, Bell's palsy.
01:50:59.000 But there's all these other things like arthritic pain, fatigue.
01:51:05.000 A lot of people think that all the time they were diagnosing chronic fatigue syndrome was people with Lyme's.
01:51:11.000 Wow.
01:51:12.000 People with Lyme disease.
01:51:13.000 My friend's dad got it from getting vaccinated.
01:51:18.000 They used to have a vaccination against Lyme disease.
01:51:22.000 But the problem with it, a small percentage of people that got that vaccination would have some genetic marker that would make them predisposed to getting fucking Lyme disease from this vaccine.
01:51:33.000 So this guy was terrified of getting Lyme disease, gets a vaccination against Lyme disease, got Lyme disease from the vaccination, and then they stopped making the Lyme disease vaccination.
01:51:42.000 So this poor guy has fucking Lyme disease.
01:51:45.000 And he's still fucked up.
01:51:46.000 He's an old guy.
01:51:46.000 It's her dad.
01:51:47.000 And he's, you know, he's jacked from this fucking vaccination.
01:51:51.000 I haven't checked this from multiple sources.
01:51:53.000 I just heard this or read this.
01:51:55.000 A couple of interesting facts about Lyme is when my son and I both got it, I remember being like, what are the odds?
01:52:02.000 Because you'd read that one or two percent of ticks carry Lyme.
01:52:05.000 So I'm like, we would have had to have been covered in hundreds of ticks for both of us.
01:52:11.000 To have, you know, statistically for both of us to have gotten it without even seeing any ticks.
01:52:15.000 Like, how could this be?
01:52:17.000 I later read that in that area, in New York, in that area in Hudson Valley, they've done some stuff where 60 or 70% of the ticks have Lyme.
01:52:25.000 And they used to chronicle 30,000 confirmed cases, you know, every year.
01:52:32.000 I think last summer they were close to 300,000.
01:52:35.000 It's just blown up.
01:52:36.000 And it's not so much that it's blown up in new places, it's just that it's becoming much more common in other places.
01:52:43.000 And isn't there a direct correlation between overpopulation of deer and these ticks?
01:52:47.000 Some people say that because it's like in that thing's lifespan, you know, it gets on deer.
01:52:52.000 But I've heard other things that even just like rodents, you know, so like smaller furred animals.
01:52:57.000 I'm not really clear on that, man.
01:52:59.000 I don't really know.
01:52:59.000 I know that when you look at places that have it, you look at places that have a lot of deer, but I don't know if you had a third as many deer if you'd have higher or lower, if you'd have necessarily lower infection rates.
01:53:11.000 I can't answer that.
01:53:11.000 But Doug Duren, who you know, I think last summer, twice he got put on the immediate antibiotics.
01:53:17.000 Because now, when you find one of those ticks buried in you, if you go into a doctor, and if you're not weird about medication, the doctor's just going to give you a super heavy dose of antibiotics that kills it before it gets a hold of you.
01:53:30.000 If you wait like I did, it gets into your nervous system.
01:53:34.000 So I even had, for a day, I had amnesia.
01:53:39.000 Whew!
01:53:39.000 Where I'm sitting at my desk and I get up to do something and I sit back down and I didn't know who wrote what's on my computer.
01:53:48.000 Whoa!
01:53:50.000 I started...
01:53:51.000 I knew I had to write about a subject because I knew that before the amnesia kicked out.
01:53:54.000 I lost the whole day.
01:53:55.000 I lost like eight hours of time.
01:53:57.000 And I knew that I was supposed to write about a subject.
01:53:59.000 And here was a thing on my computer about that subject.
01:54:03.000 I started taking sentences...
01:54:07.000 First, I took a big block, like a paragraph of text, and put it into Google to try to find how I cut and paste, how I managed to cut and paste an article on the subject I was supposed to be writing about into a Word document.
01:54:25.000 But there's no match.
01:54:26.000 Then I just started taking little blocks of words in quotes, and there's no match.
01:54:32.000 I'm like, this is not from online.
01:54:35.000 Then I start thinking that one of the guys I work with, I thought this guy, Jared Andrew Kanis, who was near there, who works at ZPZ. I start thinking that he somehow is playing some joke on me where he came and wrote about what I was supposed to write about.
01:54:48.000 On my desk, I also have a book, one of my favorite hunting books, called Hunt High by Duncan Gilchrist.
01:54:53.000 And on it, I had written Mark Boardman, Vortex Optics.
01:54:58.000 I look at the book, I know the book.
01:55:01.000 I know who Mark Borman is, but I can't imagine why Mark Borman's name would be on a sticky note on that book.
01:55:08.000 And I look at my other hand, and on my hand I have LOP written.
01:55:12.000 And LOP is a term length of pull.
01:55:14.000 It's a firearm term.
01:55:16.000 And a guy wanted a length of pull off a firearm.
01:55:18.000 And I wrote LOP on my hand.
01:55:20.000 I looked at my hand like I didn't know who put that there, how long it had been there, what it meant.
01:55:25.000 And I tried to get home and couldn't get home.
01:55:28.000 You couldn't figure it out?
01:55:28.000 I got on the wrong train, got off at the wrong spot.
01:55:31.000 We were living in Brooklyn.
01:55:32.000 Got off at the wrong spot.
01:55:34.000 Came up, recognized a sport, recognized like a sporting goods, like a sports place called, I can't remember, it doesn't matter what it's called, like a sporting goods place.
01:55:43.000 And called my wife and told her that's where I was.
01:55:46.000 And then all of a sudden things started making more and more and more and more sense.
01:55:51.000 Dude, it was wild, man.
01:55:53.000 That's scary shit.
01:55:54.000 I thought I was dying.
01:55:56.000 We did an episode of that Joe Rogan Questions Everything show on Morgellons.
01:56:02.000 Morgellons is this disease that most doctors dismiss.
01:56:05.000 They think that the people that are saying they have this, that there's something wrong with them psychologically, that they have some sort of a psychosomatic issue, and that what they're really doing is scratching themselves until they create these abscesses.
01:56:18.000 Gotcha.
01:56:18.000 And then sometimes even putting things in their skin and then claiming that these things have been growing out of their skin because they found like carpet fibers and stuff in their skin that these people sent in.
01:56:30.000 But then when we went to these conferences where these people would meet that have this Morgellons issue, you realize you're also talking about some seriously educated people and some of them that are doctors.
01:56:40.000 And one of the doctors that we talked to said there is a direct correlation between Morgellons disease and people who have Lyme disease.
01:56:47.000 Oh, is that right?
01:56:47.000 And what he said is...
01:56:49.000 Very intelligent guy.
01:56:50.000 He wasn't a nutter.
01:56:52.000 What he said is that he believes that there's a neurotoxic effect that you get from Lyme disease, from some strains of Lyme disease.
01:57:01.000 Because the way he said was...
01:57:02.000 If you look at Lyme disease, he goes, you're not looking at, like, if a tick infects you, you're not looking at just Lyme disease.
01:57:09.000 But it's possible you might have gotten 10 different things from that tick.
01:57:11.000 Oh yeah, man.
01:57:12.000 I learned about a lot of that stuff.
01:57:13.000 Yeah.
01:57:14.000 And that one of those 10 different things is causing this neurotoxic effect that literally is making you go crazy.
01:57:21.000 Yeah.
01:57:21.000 So when these doctors are examining these people and they say, oh, they're crazy, they think that carpet fibers are growing out of their skin.
01:57:28.000 No, they have Lyme disease, and the Lyme disease, along with all this other shit, is causing this neurotoxic effect, and that is what's making them think that there's something wrong out of their skin.
01:57:38.000 So it's not that they're just crazy, it's that they have a disease that's making them go crazy.
01:57:43.000 And that was pretty illuminating, because this guy was talking about seeing things, seeing worms underneath his skin of his eyes when he was looking in the mirror, and he goes, and I knew it wasn't there, but I'm seeing it anyway.
01:57:55.000 And he goes, I could feel it moving across my eye, but then there was nothing there.
01:57:59.000 And he's like, and it was pretty clear to me as a doctor that there was something going on with my mind that had a direct correlation between this disease.
01:58:08.000 So all these people that have this Morgellons, they also have this Lyme disease.
01:58:12.000 You know, I don't know if Dan Doty told me about this, but he all of a sudden has this excruciating neck pain.
01:58:19.000 And he goes down to an emergency room.
01:58:21.000 This is the same time this is going on with me.
01:58:23.000 He goes down to an emergency room.
01:58:24.000 They give him some muscle relaxers or something.
01:58:27.000 And he comes back home and it gets worse and weirder.
01:58:30.000 He goes down to another place.
01:58:32.000 And they tell him the same thing.
01:58:33.000 He got a pinched nerve.
01:58:35.000 And we're text messaging about...
01:58:37.000 I was like, hey, what's going on?
01:58:38.000 How are you feeling?
01:58:39.000 And I remember that when I was finally talking to a person who knew about Lyme, they kept telling me to move my neck and see if it hurt.
01:58:47.000 And I told Dodie, I said, you know what?
01:58:49.000 When I was down there, they kept asking me to move my head and does my neck feel weird?
01:58:52.000 Go down to that place.
01:58:54.000 So he just leaves his one doctor, takes a cab down to this place where I had gone, and they admit him.
01:59:02.000 And he had meningitis.
01:59:03.000 Spent, I don't know how, you know, four, five, six days in the hospital.
01:59:06.000 Wound up with the PICC line.
01:59:08.000 And meningitis from Lyme disease?
01:59:10.000 Lyme meningitis.
01:59:11.000 Whoa!
01:59:11.000 Because in your, you know, like an infection is in your spinal fluid.
01:59:14.000 I have a friend who died from that.
01:59:15.000 Died from meningitis.
01:59:16.000 He went to the hospital, went into the emergency room, and he was a comic.
01:59:20.000 And he was one of these, he was real busy.
01:59:23.000 He was like, fuck this place.
01:59:24.000 They're making me wait too long.
01:59:25.000 I'm leaving.
01:59:25.000 And he got out of there, got on a plane, flew to Hawaii.
01:59:28.000 When he got to Hawaii, he was dying.
01:59:30.000 Is that right?
01:59:30.000 By the time he got there, it was too late.
01:59:32.000 Yeah, I was scared because I remember, but I guess there's different forms, but anyway, it's his.
01:59:37.000 They did a spinal tap and he was all messed up.
01:59:41.000 Meningitis is some scary shit.
01:59:43.000 I've had some of the weird, in the last three or four years...
01:59:48.000 I've had just some of the weirdest, like, freaky health things.
01:59:51.000 But they're parasites.
01:59:52.000 Yeah, man.
01:59:52.000 Almost everything that you've had.
01:59:53.000 Giardia or something.
01:59:54.000 I got a colon infection.
01:59:56.000 From water.
01:59:57.000 And that was from the other show, right?
01:59:58.000 That was from, like...
01:59:59.000 The Wild Within?
02:00:00.000 No, I was doing Meat Eater.
02:00:02.000 So I had, like, I got really bad poison oak and was on steroids for that, but also got some kind of waterborne parasite.
02:00:10.000 And then the steroids combat your ability to fight infection.
02:00:14.000 I went up in the hospital, went up, like, shitting my own couch.
02:00:18.000 My wife's like, my wife's like, listen, you know, there's nothing now.
02:00:22.000 She's like, I felt bad about having you be there when I was having babies.
02:00:25.000 She's like, you got nothing on me now, man.
02:00:27.000 That's hilarious.
02:00:28.000 Just shit your own couch.
02:00:31.000 So, I couldn't even tell when it was happening, you know.
02:00:36.000 Wow.
02:00:36.000 I thought, oh man, again, I thought I was going to die.
02:00:38.000 So anyways, I just had like, just the weirdest stuff.
02:00:42.000 Dodie, I keep bringing up Dodie, but Dodie's like, you need to go to a shaman.
02:00:46.000 Because he thinks that there's some thing, like, I need to have, like, there's some sin I committed against the universe or something, and it's like, he thinks I need to go to a shaman to get right.
02:00:56.000 Doty did too much DMT. He did too much DMT. Trust me, you can do too much.
02:01:02.000 You gotta be careful with that fucking ayahuasca.
02:01:05.000 Yeah, that's hilarious.
02:01:07.000 That whole shaman thing is a real trip.
02:01:11.000 You know, the whole going to the jungle and taking that medication and having these spiritual experiences, it'll get you convinced that everything's all tied together and that somehow or another you've committed some sort of a sin against the universe.
02:01:23.000 I gotta let you talk to him.
02:01:25.000 I don't want to speak for the boy.
02:01:26.000 I'm already talking about him too much.
02:01:28.000 Dodie?
02:01:28.000 Yeah.
02:01:29.000 Well, Dodie and I had a long, extensive conversation about his ayahuasca experiences.
02:01:33.000 And I've never done ayahuasca, but I've done DMT many times.
02:01:36.000 I did it again recently.
02:01:37.000 I did it last weekend.
02:01:38.000 And the DMT experience is essentially what ayahuasca is is an orally active version of DMT. Because the Amazon shaman and the people- What is derived?
02:01:49.000 It's from two different plants.
02:01:51.000 Okay.
02:01:51.000 I don't know the first thing about this stuff.
02:01:53.000 DMT is dimethyltryptamine and it exists in thousands of different plants.
02:01:57.000 And the reason why you don't get it, like you don't get high when you eat it, is because your stomach produces monoamine oxidase.
02:02:04.000 So monoamine oxidase, what you need to do is take an inhibitor so that you could get it in an orally active form.
02:02:12.000 So most of the time, when most people get DMT, what they're getting is a synthesized version where they've taken Cochia viridis or all these different plants, they've extracted it down to the DMT and then you smoke it.
02:02:26.000 And what they do in the Amazon...
02:02:28.000 It's regulated in the U.S. or not?
02:02:29.000 It's illegal.
02:02:30.000 Schedule 1. The issue with it being a drug, though, is that it exists in so many different forms, you would have to make grass illegal.
02:02:39.000 I got you.
02:02:39.000 If you had Phalaris grass growing in your front lawn, you essentially have a schedule-run drug growing on your lawn in massive quantities.
02:02:48.000 So it can't be enforced.
02:02:50.000 But if they find the powder, if they find it synthesized and turned into a powder that you could smoke and freebase, then it's illegal, and then it's a Schedule I drug.
02:02:59.000 But it exists in your own human neurochemistry.
02:03:01.000 It's like making saliva illegal.
02:03:03.000 Yeah, now I'm with you.
02:03:04.000 It's literally that ridiculous.
02:03:06.000 The Amazon shaman have figured out a way to take the vine of one plant and the leaves of another, and they boil them together.
02:03:15.000 So essentially, they use harming, which is a natural MAO inhibitor, and they combine it with this plant, and they boil it into this potion, and that's what ayahuasca is.
02:03:23.000 So it's DMT and an MAO inhibitor together in this elixir.
02:03:27.000 You drink it, and you have...
02:03:29.000 What's close to the smoked DMT experience as you can get, but not quite as potent.
02:03:35.000 But there's not a synthetic version.
02:03:39.000 Of ayahuasca?
02:03:40.000 No, no.
02:03:41.000 It's all extracted from plants.
02:03:43.000 DMT, they don't produce it in labs.
02:03:46.000 I think you can produce it in a lab.
02:03:48.000 I think you can, but the precursors of it are very tightly controlled by the DEA. Yeah.
02:03:54.000 Like if they found out that you were buying a certain amount of this chemical that you would use to make the synthetic version of it, they would flag you.
02:04:01.000 Gotcha.
02:04:01.000 But the plants are legal.
02:04:03.000 So you could go online.
02:04:05.000 There was a guy that got arrested and they took all of his money and locked him up in jail.
02:04:09.000 I think it was called Happy Frog or something like that.
02:04:13.000 The name of his company.
02:04:15.000 I don't remember the name of his company, but he sold all these legal plants.
02:04:19.000 But the plants were all totally legal, but he sold them with the pretense that you could take these plants and extract DMT from them, and then he was arrested for that.
02:04:28.000 Because he was putting A and B together for you.
02:04:30.000 Yeah.
02:04:30.000 Well, he was allowing you to find the source to do it yourself.
02:04:34.000 Yeah.
02:04:35.000 But even though what he was selling was legal, I think he got off.
02:04:38.000 I'm kind of speaking out of school here, because it was a few years back, and I didn't totally pay too much attention to it, but it is in so many different sources.
02:04:48.000 And it's a hallucinogenic.
02:04:50.000 Yes.
02:04:51.000 Well, it's a human neurotransmitter and an incredibly potent drug that's also the most transient drug ever exists or one of the most transient drugs ever observed.
02:05:01.000 So if you get, like if say if you smoke DMT, like I did it, like I said last week, you're blasted to the center of the universe for about 15 minutes and then you're back to baseline.
02:05:12.000 Like you're completely sober in 15 minutes.
02:05:14.000 Are you serious?
02:05:16.000 Yeah.
02:05:16.000 Your body knows exactly what to do with it because it's such a normal part of your chemistry that your body can bring it back to baseline within minutes.
02:05:26.000 It's weird.
02:05:27.000 It's the weirdest shit ever.
02:05:29.000 And the weirdest aspect of it is while you're blown out, like blown out in this intense psychedelic state, you immediately think, I'm here all the time.
02:05:39.000 I've been here before.
02:05:40.000 I know what this is.
02:05:41.000 It's not unfamiliar.
02:05:42.000 It's completely alien but yet familiar at the same time.
02:05:46.000 So Doty, in all those ayahuasca experiences that he had when he was talking about all these flashbacks, all this craziness, what happens is you open up this...
02:05:55.000 It's a weird effect where if you do DMT and you have these powerful experiences, you open up this door.
02:06:01.000 And I don't know what the chemical effect of it is or what the mechanism is, but something happens when you open up that door where you can open up that door again, even in a dream.
02:06:14.000 And so the speculation is that what happens when people have, like, near-death experiences, when people have alien abduction experiences, when people have these crazy things they say happen to them, most likely what it is is some sort of a weird endogenous dump of DMT. Like,
02:06:31.000 you know how something can happen to you when you get this crazy adrenaline rush?
02:06:35.000 They believe it's possible that something can happen to you when you get a crazy DMT rush.
02:06:40.000 That it's very difficult to access, but that it's a function of the brain.
02:06:45.000 And it's causing you to, for lack of a better word, it's causing you to trip.
02:06:48.000 Yes.
02:06:50.000 But you might perceive it as a memory.
02:06:52.000 You could perceive it at, well, it feels as real, if not more real, than reality itself.
02:06:57.000 Because it's intensely colored and brightly lit.
02:07:01.000 And there's no borders to things, but yet there are.
02:07:04.000 It's very, very, very difficult to describe.
02:07:06.000 I'm doing a terrible job of describing it.
02:07:09.000 And all around you, it's alive with entities.
02:07:12.000 And these entities are communicating with you, both with sound and with visual cues.
02:07:17.000 It's a very, very, very weird trip.
02:07:19.000 If you think in a negative way, or if you try to control it, they'll, like, literally shake their finger at you and go, no, [...
02:07:27.000 But then if you get it right, it calms down.
02:07:30.000 Like, it's like a lesson in how to think.
02:07:33.000 It's a very, very bizarre, bizarre trip.
02:07:36.000 The most bizarre out of all the psychedelics by far.
02:07:39.000 The way I describe it is mushrooms times a million plus aliens.
02:07:43.000 Yeah.
02:07:44.000 It's the mandala.
02:07:45.000 It's the center of the mandala of all...
02:07:48.000 This is how McKenna described it.
02:07:49.000 The mandala of all the different psychedelic experiences, the center of it, literally the fucking point zero, the event horizon of that is DMT. So do you feel like...
02:08:03.000 To do it, do you feel like you're being recreational or constructive?
02:08:07.000 Constructive.
02:08:08.000 I try not to do anything recreationally.
02:08:10.000 I smoke a little weed recreationally, have a drink recreationally.
02:08:13.000 But I think psychedelic experiences, they're so beneficial.
02:08:17.000 I've gotten so much benefit out of them that I don't...
02:08:20.000 I feel like it'd be a waste.
02:08:23.000 Do you mean personally or as a performer?
02:08:26.000 Personally.
02:08:27.000 Well, as a performer, eventually.
02:08:30.000 Personally first, and as a performer, I benefit from whatever I get out of it personally.
02:08:36.000 Because it's all tied together.
02:08:38.000 I'm with you.
02:08:39.000 But you don't think of funny jokes or something.
02:08:41.000 No.
02:08:41.000 The people don't tell you funny jokes that you can put into your act.
02:08:44.000 Nope, nope, nope.
02:08:46.000 No, it's all about correcting your bullshit.
02:08:49.000 It's almost like, alright, you haven't been here in a while.
02:08:51.000 Come on in, we gotta say it.
02:08:51.000 It's like going to the dentist.
02:08:53.000 Have you ever been to the dentist in like two years?
02:08:54.000 You're one of those fucking guys?
02:08:55.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:08:57.000 Sit down.
02:08:57.000 Sit down.
02:08:57.000 Let me see what the fuck you got going on here.
02:08:59.000 Oh, you got this.
02:09:00.000 Why are you thinking about this?
02:09:01.000 Da-da [...]-da.
02:09:02.000 Don't think about that.
02:09:03.000 That's just stupid.
02:09:04.000 You're wasting your time thinking.
02:09:04.000 It's like they sort of explain to you the wasted paths that you're taking with your thinking and your mind and then even with your actions.
02:09:13.000 So how long do the 15 minutes feel like?
02:09:16.000 Well, I did several in a day.
02:09:18.000 So I did three or four 15-minute ones in a row.
02:09:25.000 So, you know, like, just blast off, come back to baseline, hit it again.
02:09:30.000 But would you be like, man, that was just 15 minutes, or would it feel like you were gone, like, days?
02:09:35.000 No, it doesn't feel like days.
02:09:37.000 It feels like...
02:09:39.000 When you're in the state itself, it almost feels like time doesn't exist.
02:09:45.000 Unless you think about it too much.
02:09:48.000 Sometimes I'm thinking about, I don't want this to end so quick.
02:09:51.000 And then they're like, stop thinking all this stupid shit.
02:09:53.000 You're wasting all your time.
02:09:56.000 Imagine enjoying a great movie and being like, man, this movie's going to end soon.
02:10:00.000 Shit.
02:10:00.000 This movie's only 10 minutes in and I know it's only got an hour and 50 minutes to go.
02:10:05.000 Shit, I wish it could go on forever.
02:10:07.000 That's a wasted thought.
02:10:08.000 Like, why not just be in the moment and enjoy it?
02:10:11.000 So it's, you know, that expression, be in the moment, is like so overdone and hippie and fucking yoga.
02:10:18.000 Like, so many people say things like that and it just makes you moan.
02:10:21.000 Like, oh, you shut the fuck up.
02:10:22.000 Because it's like...
02:10:23.000 It's so cliched and annoying when they say it, but there's wisdom in it, unfortunately.
02:10:28.000 There's just so many of these fucking fake spiritual people that clog up all these words and they ruin some of these definitions because, you know, oh, just be in the moment, find your center.
02:10:41.000 Oh, fuck you.
02:10:42.000 Okay, I'm not listening to your...
02:10:43.000 Like, I used to take yoga from this guy that was a total bullshit artist.
02:10:46.000 He was a good yoga instructor but he was intoxicated by the fact that he was teaching yoga and that all these people came to him and his ego would feed off of this yoga class to the point where he would say all these things and you would see people roll their eyes like my wife used to hate him because he was so cheesy.
02:11:06.000 And he would kind of hit on the ladies that would be there, and he wound up fucking some dude's wife, and it was like a disaster.
02:11:12.000 Left his wife, and she left her husband, and now they're miserable together.
02:11:16.000 He was like a fake spiritual guy.
02:11:18.000 And these fake spiritual people, they have this way of ruining a lot of really wise notions.
02:11:27.000 And one of them is living in the mind.
02:11:28.000 Because they're using it as a tool.
02:11:30.000 Well, you know, it's like...
02:11:32.000 Or they're claiming to be enlightened when really they're just a student on the path and maybe they have some good ideas along the way to enlightenment, but they're not quite there.
02:11:41.000 Yeah.
02:11:41.000 You know, there's a lot of that, man.
02:11:43.000 It's like...
02:11:44.000 There's a lot of people searching, like these new age type people that are searching for some sort of a meaning.
02:11:50.000 And if you find the wrong shaman, you find the wrong yogi, you find the wrong guru, you could go down a bad path.
02:11:57.000 I mean, the guy who's the head of Bikram Yoga...
02:11:59.000 He's got all these rape allegations and sexual assault allegations.
02:12:03.000 He drives a fucking Bentley everywhere.
02:12:05.000 He's loaded.
02:12:06.000 He's got fucking gold-crusted Rolexes.
02:12:09.000 He's clearly not a spiritual, enlightened guy, but he's the head of this whole Bikram movement, which is filled with all these pseudo-spiritual people.
02:12:20.000 You know, I was sitting there one day reading a book, reading Al Sharpton's most recent book.
02:12:27.000 Why would you do that?
02:12:28.000 It's a long story.
02:12:29.000 Is it written in crayon?
02:12:30.000 No, my agent, my literary agent, represented Al Sharpton and did a book with Al Sharpton.
02:12:38.000 So I'm reading an Al Sharpton book.
02:12:39.000 And I'm sitting there and a guy's coming down the road walking a dog.
02:12:45.000 And he looks like he's like a yachtsman.
02:12:47.000 The guy walking dog is clearly a yachtsman.
02:12:50.000 That's his world.
02:12:51.000 And he comes up and says to me, you know, I had a meeting with him one time.
02:12:58.000 And he came up in a chauffeured car.
02:13:01.000 And he had a Rolex watch on.
02:13:05.000 And he proceeded to tell me how he lives on a $23,000 a year salary.
02:13:12.000 Wow.
02:13:13.000 I don't know how old that story was.
02:13:15.000 I don't know how true that story was.
02:13:16.000 But it was kind of like he was sort of like pointing out the, you know.
02:13:20.000 Well, there was a guy once.
02:13:22.000 Like an apparent discrepancy.
02:13:24.000 Oh, there's a massive discrepancy.
02:13:25.000 There was a guy once that was on this radio show that I was listening to that was the head of a corporation that was approached by Jesse Jackson.
02:13:32.000 Because something had gone on, something where racial insensitivity, they had been accused of something that was racially insensitive.
02:13:43.000 So Jesse Jackson came on, and essentially the pitch was, you are going to hire my company to give seminars on racial sensitivity, and it's going to cost you a quarter million dollars a year, and if you do not, we are going to protest you,
02:13:59.000 we're going to make it miserable, we're going to cost you far more than you would spend to have my company come in, the Rainbow Coalition, or whatever the fuck it was.
02:14:08.000 But isn't that extortion?
02:14:10.000 Is that illegal?
02:14:11.000 It's not illegal.
02:14:12.000 It is and it isn't.
02:14:13.000 I mean, it is illegal if you call it extortion.
02:14:15.000 But what he is essentially saying is it's within your best interest to align yourself with my corporation.
02:14:22.000 It's an out-of-court settlement.
02:14:23.000 Yeah, exactly.
02:14:24.000 An out-of-court settlement that they profit from in an incredible way.
02:14:27.000 But he had all these crazy demands.
02:14:28.000 Like, he wanted to have shrimp cocktail.
02:14:31.000 Like, Jesse Jackson had all these very specific demands as far as the kind of food, the amount of food that he was to be given, what was supposed to go on, what kind of car he was supposed to be picked up in.
02:14:43.000 And, you know, you look at Reverend Jesse Jackson.
02:14:46.000 He's a religious man.
02:14:47.000 Well, where's he getting all this fucking money?
02:14:49.000 He is a wealthy, wealthy guy.
02:14:52.000 And he's wealthy by being what they call a race pimp.
02:14:55.000 And that's how this guy was describing it.
02:14:57.000 He's like, he's a race pimp.
02:14:58.000 This guy finds these scenarios where something goes wrong, moves in, and then extracts money from the situation.
02:15:07.000 I should send you my Al Sharpton book.
02:15:09.000 I won't read it.
02:15:10.000 You won't read it?
02:15:10.000 No.
02:15:10.000 Because there's a really good chapter.
02:15:12.000 There's one really good chapter in that book where he talks about how people's positions on things evolve over the years.
02:15:21.000 And I thought that was good.
02:15:22.000 Then there's a really horrible chapter where he talks about how his role in comforting Michael Jackson's family upon Michael Jackson's death, where he sort of presents himself as the great hero.
02:15:37.000 He's a fool.
02:15:39.000 I think my agent was like, you're the last guy in the world I would expect to read a Sharpton book.
02:15:46.000 But I told myself, well, here's the thing.
02:15:47.000 That's probably why I'm reading it.
02:15:49.000 Because all my life I've heard about this guy, I really don't understand who he is or what he does.
02:15:54.000 Well, he's to me...
02:15:54.000 It's just one of these names.
02:15:56.000 You know, it's like, almost like he's almost got a name like PETA. Yes.
02:15:59.000 Where people hear it and they roll their eyes.
02:16:01.000 Do you know what I mean?
02:16:02.000 It's almost become like...
02:16:04.000 He'd cringe to hear someone say this, but it's almost become like he's almost a punchline.
02:16:09.000 Yes, he is a punchline.
02:16:10.000 For so many people.
02:16:11.000 So many pundits and commentators.
02:16:14.000 I realized that I was kind of a victim of that.
02:16:17.000 Or not victim mode, I was like, doing that.
02:16:19.000 I couldn't tell you what the guy did.
02:16:21.000 I couldn't tell you what he stood for.
02:16:22.000 But you thought of him as a punchline.
02:16:23.000 Yeah, I just knew that of him, you know?
02:16:25.000 Well, you know the Tawana Brawley, the case that got him famous?
02:16:29.000 Yeah, he talks about that.
02:16:31.000 Yeah, which is hilarious.
02:16:32.000 I mean, he represented a woman who made up a fake allegation of being raped by white people and wrote things on her body, and it turns out none of it happened.
02:16:40.000 She just made it all up, and he was demanding...
02:16:43.000 You know, justice and all this crazy shit.
02:16:45.000 And he was, you know, on every television show and all throughout, you know, the news cases and all this different shit.
02:16:53.000 And it turned out that what he was doing was just based on nothing.
02:16:57.000 It was based on all lies.
02:16:58.000 It was based...
02:16:59.000 The entire scenario jetted him into the public eye.
02:17:04.000 It was a fake scene.
02:17:06.000 Yeah, I can't tell you whether I read that in this book or whether one of the many people who saw me reading the book and had to come up and give me their two cents on the subject told me that.
02:17:14.000 Well, it's amazing that the guy became famous for demanding justice for something that never took place.
02:17:19.000 But it's a perfect analogy.
02:17:21.000 Where it's a perfect representation of who he is.
02:17:24.000 And also how bizarre our sensitivities are to race.
02:17:29.000 That this fucking clown is on MSNBC or CNBC or whatever the fuck he is giving his opinions on all these different things and his opinions are brutally dumb.
02:17:38.000 When he has to communicate, when he has to debate people who are intelligent or have nuanced opinions on these subjects, his clear and obvious bias and his cookie-cutter idea of racism in America.
02:17:53.000 Racism is a real issue, without a doubt.
02:17:55.000 But having a guy like that represent the black community almost fosters racism.
02:18:01.000 It's almost like if I was a racist and I wanted to make sure that people had a negative opinion of black people, I would take the most clownish cartoon versions of black leaders and feature them prominently on television in order to reinforce...
02:18:14.000 Reinforce these ideas of these cartoonish figures being, this is what represents the black community.
02:18:19.000 Isn't the black community silly?
02:18:21.000 And that's what happens.
02:18:22.000 Instead of getting a Neil deGrasse Tyson, a Cornel West, instead of getting these super intelligent, very articulate people with broad perspectives, you get this goofball with fucking conked hair and a stapled stomach.
02:18:36.000 He's a goofball.
02:18:37.000 Yeah.
02:18:37.000 And his many thousand dollar suits on television demanding, you know, reparations for slavery.
02:18:44.000 It's like, come on, man.
02:18:45.000 It's almost a setup.
02:18:47.000 It's almost like to engineer racism.
02:18:51.000 Jesse Jackson barely can speak English.
02:18:55.000 I mean, he's obviously an educated guy.
02:18:56.000 He obviously is articulate.
02:18:57.000 But if you're a professional speaker, which essentially he is, his ability to enunciate words is so sloppy and so confusing.
02:19:10.000 It's like, do you know how you sound?
02:19:12.000 Yeah.
02:19:13.000 Like, you almost sound like you're doing this on purpose.
02:19:15.000 Yeah.
02:19:16.000 You know, when you talk, you listen to him talk.
02:19:20.000 It's almost like he's too lazy to say the words in a way that everyone can understand.
02:19:25.000 He likes the cadence of it in some way.
02:19:28.000 Yeah, they used to do...
02:19:28.000 Does Neil deGrasse Tyson ever speak on...
02:19:30.000 Have you ever heard him speak on race?
02:19:32.000 Talk about race?
02:19:33.000 I never have heard him.
02:19:35.000 I mean, I only hear him talk about what he talks about professionally.
02:19:38.000 Yeah, he's talked about some other science-based things, not just astrophysics.
02:19:43.000 I've heard him speak on genetically modified foods and some misconceptions.
02:19:46.000 Oh, have you really?
02:19:47.000 Yeah, I've heard him speak on some other things that people have some misconceptions of.
02:19:51.000 You know, just sort of science-based stuff, but I haven't heard him speak on race.
02:19:56.000 He's an interesting guy.
02:19:57.000 He's a fun dude, man.
02:19:58.000 Yeah, there's that thing, the Incomprehensible Universe, that series.
02:20:03.000 It's an amazing series.
02:20:04.000 I think it's what it's called.
02:20:06.000 Have you seen The Cosmos?
02:20:07.000 The new version of it?
02:20:09.000 No, I haven't.
02:20:09.000 It's great.
02:20:10.000 It's great.
02:20:11.000 Because also, he made it very accessible.
02:20:13.000 This version, the story of Giordano Bruno, I think that's his name, the guy who was burned at the stake for suggesting that the universe is infinite.
02:20:22.000 And they were like, what?
02:20:23.000 You fucking crazy bitch.
02:20:24.000 We're going to light you on fire unless you repent.
02:20:27.000 That there's a brick wall.
02:20:28.000 There's a brick wall out there.
02:20:30.000 There's a ceiling out there.
02:20:31.000 And behind there is a door and God's out there.
02:20:33.000 And he was convinced that it wasn't the case.
02:20:36.000 But he did the whole Giordano Bruno thing.
02:20:39.000 He did it in animated form.
02:20:40.000 He made an animation of it, which is fantastic.
02:20:43.000 He also made an animation form, which you'd be interested in, showing how wolves became dogs.
02:20:49.000 And over the course of human civilization evolving, how these wolves who had become friendly with people had eventually gotten to the point where the people were feeding them and the wolves stayed close and then those wolves had slowly but surely morphed into dogs.
02:21:05.000 That's on Cosmos?
02:21:06.000 Yes.
02:21:07.000 Yeah.
02:21:07.000 Amazing.
02:21:08.000 There's so much wild stuff coming out of...
02:21:10.000 You know about those Russians that were taking foxes and doing selective breeding on them?
02:21:16.000 Just how fast you can change stuff, man.
02:21:18.000 Yeah.
02:21:19.000 Yeah.
02:21:20.000 Amazing.
02:21:21.000 You can, yeah.
02:21:22.000 I mean, all you need to do is look at what they've done with dogs.
02:21:26.000 You know, the time that human beings have been, I mean, what is, the established timeline for agricultural civilization is, what is it, 10,000 years or something like that?
02:21:37.000 Yeah, 10, 11,000 years.
02:21:38.000 Anatomically modern, like, pick your number, but 100,000.
02:21:43.000 Yeah, so in that time, which is a blink of the eye, you've made a fucking poodle out of a wolf.
02:21:50.000 Yeah, man.
02:21:50.000 You've made a chihuahua.
02:21:52.000 When Americans first passed into North America, there weren't, like, breeds of dogs.
02:21:57.000 It was just, like, the dog they had.
02:22:00.000 That's crazy.
02:22:00.000 You know, they didn't have, like...
02:22:02.000 That's 1,400?
02:22:03.000 1,400?
02:22:04.000 1,500?
02:22:05.000 No, no, no.
02:22:06.000 1,600?
02:22:07.000 Probably some...
02:22:07.000 I mean, it's a hotly debated number, but sometime between, like...
02:22:12.000 Our oldest sites are 14,000 years.
02:22:15.000 But people think there has to be sites we haven't found or will never find that are older.
02:22:19.000 Maybe 20,000 years.
02:22:20.000 But say when Daniel Boone came across America.
02:22:25.000 Oh, no, they had breeds.
02:22:26.000 They had breeds.
02:22:27.000 Oh, yeah.
02:22:27.000 When did they start having, like, when is it established?
02:22:29.000 I have no idea.
02:22:30.000 I have no idea.
02:22:31.000 That's so fascinating.
02:22:32.000 There's probably, like, I'm sure there's great stuff written about it.
02:22:35.000 But, you know, like, they had, so when the first Americans migrated into North America, they were traveling with a domestic version, you know, something that had been domesticated for quite some time, a domestic version of the Eurasian wolf.
02:22:53.000 And then they came down and here you had a number of wild canines, you know, wolves, which the animal they were traveling with could breed with wolves.
02:23:04.000 You now find that in certain cases, wolves and coyotes, they don't, I don't think they...
02:23:13.000 We're good to go.
02:23:28.000 It created Lord Knows What All.
02:23:30.000 Because by the time Lewis and Clark...
02:23:32.000 When Lewis and Clark were out and they were eating dogs with Plains tribes, those dogs weren't showing...
02:23:39.000 There hadn't been dogs that came from Europe, from colonists, hadn't put dog blood into the dog blood, and they came and they had a dog that looked like...
02:23:51.000 What they now call in Vietnam like a meat dog.
02:23:53.000 Just like a mutt dog.
02:23:57.000 With multiple colors on them.
02:23:59.000 There was a recent thing where they've done a genetic study on certain hybrids where they've found a hybrid that's part coyote, part wolf, and part domestic dog.
02:24:09.000 Is that right?
02:24:09.000 Yeah.
02:24:10.000 It's really recent.
02:24:11.000 Really recent.
02:24:11.000 That kind of is surprising because one of the things people look at is why are...
02:24:16.000 Coyotes in the East are just different.
02:24:19.000 They're bigger.
02:24:20.000 They feel that there was hybridization events of wolves and coyotes that gave you a bigger coyote in the East and you have smaller coyotes in the West.
02:24:29.000 Yeah, this is from the Washington Post.
02:24:33.000 Coyote-wolf hybrids are prowling Rock Creek Park in D.C. suburbs.
02:24:37.000 What the fuck, man?
02:24:39.000 Really?
02:24:39.000 Yeah, this is a coyote-wolf hybrid in the Washington, D.C. suburbs.
02:24:45.000 Isn't that nuts?
02:24:47.000 Koi wolves.
02:24:48.000 And they've recently established that wolves have returned to California.
02:24:54.000 The first known wolf, you know, within X amount of years.
02:24:58.000 Coming out of where?
02:24:59.000 I'll find out right now.
02:25:01.000 Is it like the red wolves coming out of Arizona, New Mexico?
02:25:06.000 I'll tell you right now, because it's a totally new thing that they've proven.
02:25:13.000 It's from where they've established it.
02:25:21.000 The wolf's controversy will return to California.
02:25:23.000 It's on Popular Science Magazine.
02:25:26.000 Popular opinion is divided on how to manage the gray wolf.
02:25:29.000 So it's a gray wolf.
02:25:31.000 2011, a male gray wolf called OR7 left his pack in Oregon and traversed 1,200 miles.
02:25:48.000 No kidding.
02:25:49.000 Yeah.
02:25:50.000 Had he been collared in Oregon?
02:25:52.000 He must have been.
02:25:53.000 It's a good question.
02:25:54.000 It must have, right?
02:25:55.000 If they figured out where he is.
02:25:57.000 You know, a guy in Missouri one time killed one outside of his chicken coop.
02:26:00.000 He thought it was a coyote.
02:26:01.000 That thing had come from Michigan's Upper Peninsula.
02:26:03.000 Well, there was a guy...
02:26:04.000 Across the Mississippi.
02:26:05.000 They killed a mountain lion in Connecticut that turned out to be from South Dakota.
02:26:10.000 Yeah.
02:26:11.000 You hear about that fucking thing?
02:26:12.000 I'm telling you, I don't mean to say I was on this story long ago, but my entire life...
02:26:19.000 This debate about where mountain lions that turn up in the east, or where wolves that turn up in weird places, my entire life has been this battle between people who be like, oh, it's escape pets.
02:26:31.000 It's escape pets.
02:26:35.000 And now it's becoming clear in so many of these cases.
02:26:39.000 It's not.
02:26:40.000 Things just leave now and then, and they have a very clear sense of purpose, and they travel tremendous distances.
02:26:49.000 Yeah, this is OR7. They actually got a trail cam photo of this thing in California.
02:26:53.000 Yeah.
02:26:53.000 And every time someone saw something like that, people would be like, oh, you didn't see it, or you saw an escaped pet.
02:27:00.000 And you'd think that every household had a mountain lion pet.
02:27:02.000 Yeah.
02:27:03.000 To account for all the lions, the guys would be like, it was a damn lion.
02:27:07.000 Like, I found where something had killed a deer.
02:27:10.000 I went back the next day, and there was a lion sitting there.
02:27:11.000 I'd be like, it's an escape pet.
02:27:13.000 This is pretty proficient.
02:27:17.000 My whole life has been going on, and now, finally, I mean, the guys that have been pushing for this forever finally got to feel a lot better.
02:27:23.000 Now that through tracking devices, we're able to go like, yeah, a wolf decided one day, You know, to leave there and go down.
02:27:30.000 There's a grizzly that one day decided to mosey out of the Rockies and made it out into eastern Montana.
02:27:35.000 You know, there's an elk that did a...
02:27:37.000 Usually it's, you know, usually these wide-ranging predators.
02:27:40.000 They got wolverines that...
02:27:42.000 I was just reading a thing about...
02:27:44.000 They had a wolverine.
02:27:45.000 Back up a little bit because this one's being interesting.
02:27:47.000 They were doing a radio collar study in Alaska about a road.
02:27:50.000 Think about putting a road in into the Juneau area.
02:27:55.000 So they've been doing a study on animal movements in that area to try to anticipate how this road might impact wildlife.
02:28:01.000 Just to see about their migration patterns and movement patterns, they went in and collared a bunch of stuff.
02:28:06.000 They had a radio collared Moose, fall into a crevasse in a glacier, and then a radio-collared bear tried to go in there and get him out,
02:28:24.000 and fell in and died.
02:28:27.000 And I think that was then scavenged by a radio-collared wolverine.
02:28:33.000 They also had a wolverine-collared bear get caught by a trapper 250 miles away in B.C., 250 miles it walked.
02:28:44.000 Wolverines are really rare to find, right?
02:28:47.000 They're rare to find.
02:28:48.000 I'm telling you, that's one of the last things of large North American fauna.
02:28:57.000 That's one of the last things I'm looking for.
02:28:59.000 You're looking for a wolverine?
02:29:00.000 I have not laid eyes on one.
02:29:01.000 My friends at...
02:29:04.000 I saw one caribou hunting.
02:29:05.000 My brother Danny was hunting spring bears one time and saw wolverines digging through the debris field at the base of an avalanche looking for critters that got swept up in the avalanche.
02:29:15.000 I've got a handful of friends that have seen one.
02:29:16.000 I haven't seen one yet.
02:29:18.000 Just badgers and wolverines, those types of animals are so bizarre.
02:29:23.000 Dude, I was driving down the Hall Road, the Trans-Alaska Pipeline Road.
02:29:29.000 And, you know, if you're on that road, like the road that parallels the Alaska Pipeline, Dalton Highway, if you're on that road and you go west, you're not going to, you know, depending on your line of travel, you won't hit another road until you're in We're good to go.
02:29:50.000 We're good to go.
02:30:03.000 Whoa.
02:30:07.000 Whoa.
02:30:24.000 I can't say this for sure, but more than other animals, you feel that he had never seen that before.
02:30:29.000 Never seen a person.
02:30:30.000 It's just like, usually you'll see an animal, he cuts out on the road, right?
02:30:35.000 And he sees a car, and he gets that like, oh shit, this ain't good.
02:30:39.000 Based on whatever experiences he's had or responses that he's witnessed from his mother.
02:30:45.000 Or some sort of, they kind of get tense.
02:30:49.000 They're gauging risk.
02:30:51.000 But just this thing steps in the road and just looks kind of like this look on his face.
02:30:55.000 And I'm anthropomorphizing here, but look on his face is like, now what in the hell is that?
02:31:00.000 Followed by utter lack of interest and just like left.
02:31:04.000 He's like, he looked, I don't know what that is.
02:31:07.000 I can't see this bringing anything good to me.
02:31:10.000 And then wandered off and it was one of the weird, like that's the only one I've seen.
02:31:13.000 Look at that thing.
02:31:14.000 They don't even look real.
02:31:15.000 No, man.
02:31:16.000 I'm telling you what.
02:31:17.000 It's so freaky looking.
02:31:18.000 They are so tall.
02:31:20.000 Like how tall?
02:31:22.000 This thing is like this high, man.
02:31:24.000 So like two feet high?
02:31:25.000 Yeah, leggy though.
02:31:26.000 Huge feet.
02:31:27.000 Just a weird look.
02:31:28.000 You know, they're like snowshoe hair specialists, man.
02:31:30.000 They like to hunt snowshoe hair.
02:31:31.000 So it has big feet so they can get through the snow.
02:31:33.000 Walk on the snow.
02:31:34.000 Quiet hunters.
02:31:35.000 Yeah, they're snowshoe hair specialists.
02:31:36.000 Cameron Haynes was telling me about bears that come out of hibernation.
02:31:41.000 And as they come out of hibernation, it's the same time where the moose are stuck in the snow.
02:31:47.000 Oh, that wet, sloppy snow.
02:31:49.000 And so the moose are like...
02:31:50.000 Plotting and these bears come out and they haven't eaten anything in months because they've just been hibernating but they see these moose and they can't help but kill them.
02:31:59.000 So they just go on these rampages killing every moose they find and just leaving their carcasses because they can't really handle meat yet.
02:32:06.000 Yeah, but they like to have the opportunity at it.
02:32:09.000 Their instincts.
02:32:11.000 Because when they do come out, they'll come out and eat grass for a while, eat vegetation, but they do spend a lot of time following that.
02:32:19.000 They spend a lot of time looking for what we call winter kill, just scavenging carcasses they can find.
02:32:26.000 And then they hammer, hammer fawns.
02:32:30.000 And that's something people used to not realize about Black bears is the high rates of fawn mortality you get from black bears on elk, moose, deer.
02:32:41.000 It doesn't seem like they really go after the healthy adults under normal circumstances, but they really find out that black bears just turn up and hit animals.
02:32:50.000 Calves and fawns in a way that no one ever thought before.
02:32:53.000 They smell that placenta.
02:32:54.000 It's like a dinner bowl.
02:32:54.000 Yeah, we used to have this idea of them as being kind of like the kinder, gentler bear, you know?
02:32:58.000 But they know these spots.
02:33:01.000 They turn up in these spots before things turn up there to drop fawns.
02:33:07.000 The second mountain line or third mountain line I ever saw, I saw cutting through a bunch of elk calves in a calving area.
02:33:14.000 You can just imagine how much a thing like that can clean house.
02:33:17.000 Yeah.
02:33:18.000 God damn.
02:33:18.000 When we were bear hunting, I got to watch bears fight.
02:33:22.000 We watched a fucking no-holds-barred brawl between this female bear with her two cubs and this male who had come into the bait.
02:33:30.000 She fucking went to war, man.
02:33:32.000 The babies climbed up the trees.
02:33:34.000 They were way the fuck up the trees, to the point where we were worried.
02:33:38.000 One of them got real squirrely.
02:33:40.000 He was kind of upside down on the tree.
02:33:43.000 He was way up there.
02:33:44.000 And they're really young.
02:33:45.000 And the adults can't climb because they get too heavy.
02:33:48.000 And this big male had come in.
02:33:51.000 And it was a big female.
02:33:52.000 And first, the babies ran up the tree.
02:33:54.000 And the female took off.
02:33:56.000 She left.
02:33:56.000 And then she just thought about it.
02:33:58.000 So, you know what?
02:33:59.000 Fuck that.
02:34:00.000 And she turned around and attacked him.
02:34:02.000 Turned around and challenged him.
02:34:04.000 And they both went up on their back legs.
02:34:06.000 And they were just going at it.
02:34:07.000 Just...
02:34:09.000 And we were sitting there on the ground, because Cameron's fucking nuts.
02:34:12.000 He likes to hunt on the ground.
02:34:13.000 He likes to bow hunt.
02:34:14.000 No tree stand.
02:34:16.000 So we're just, there's like a tree that's fallen, and we're set up behind this tree, and we're watching these fucking, you know, six, seven-foot brown bears going to war right in front of us.
02:34:26.000 I mean, no more than 30, 40 yards away.
02:34:29.000 They were duking it out.
02:34:29.000 Yeah, and you gotta be wondering, like, in the middle of this fight, all of a sudden he comes rolling over and there's your ass sitting there.
02:34:34.000 Yeah.
02:34:34.000 Well, I was knocked up, man.
02:34:36.000 I had an arrow knocked.
02:34:38.000 I remember being such a little kid, one of my earliest memories, not earliest memories, but I remember being a little kid, and my dad got a phone call one night.
02:34:45.000 One of his hunting buddies was sitting on a bear bait with his bow.
02:34:50.000 And a sow came in with cubs and smelled them and shooed her cubs up a tree, but they went up past him in the tree, and then they started squealing and balling up there, and she came up and mauled his legs.
02:35:04.000 Whoa!
02:35:04.000 Yeah, he wound up in the hospital.
02:35:07.000 Fuck.
02:35:08.000 So she was small enough that she could make it up the tree.
02:35:11.000 Well, she's up enough to get at his boots.
02:35:14.000 But I mean, most of them, I don't know...
02:35:18.000 I've heard that some black bears get too big to climb.
02:35:22.000 I mean, they can climb pretty good.
02:35:24.000 And I don't know to what extent, but your typical black bear can get itself up a tree.
02:35:30.000 She went up a tree, the one that we saw, she went up a tree a little bit, but only maybe 5 or 6 feet where her kids went like, shit, they were 50 feet up.
02:35:39.000 Yeah, I'm sure it depends a lot on the circumference of the tree and whatnot, but for sure.
02:35:42.000 But grizzlies don't.
02:35:43.000 When they're young, but when they get older, they can't get up that tree.
02:35:46.000 Yeah, that's what they were saying.
02:35:47.000 Because they had tree stands there, but he likes to hunt on the ground.
02:35:50.000 But he said, if you see a grizzly, then we go up the tree stand for sure.
02:35:54.000 Yeah, there's a bunch right there.
02:35:57.000 It was kind of like that.
02:35:58.000 That's cute.
02:35:58.000 But it was crazy to watch them duke it out, like right there in front of us.
02:36:02.000 I mean, it went on for a while.
02:36:04.000 And then he would come back and she would chase him off again.
02:36:07.000 And then finally he gave up.
02:36:08.000 But then as it got darker, she took off, and then a bunch of bears came in.
02:36:13.000 When it's dark, that's when it's really crazy.
02:36:16.000 Alberta's flooded with bears, man.
02:36:19.000 They said that there's between, depending on who you ask, between three and eight per acre.
02:36:24.000 And they're dealing with 8,000 acres.
02:36:26.000 No, not acre.
02:36:27.000 Per square mile would be super high.
02:36:29.000 Not acre.
02:36:29.000 Per square mile.
02:36:30.000 That's what I meant.
02:36:30.000 And they're dealing with 8,000 square miles.
02:36:32.000 So he said, there's just bears everywhere.
02:36:35.000 And so the first time I got there, we sat down and we waited.
02:36:39.000 I'm like, where are all these fucking bears?
02:36:40.000 If there's so many bears, you'd think you would see one.
02:36:43.000 And then when you see one, and then you see another, and you don't hear them...
02:36:47.000 That's what's crazy because the ground is thick with leaves and pine needles and stuff.
02:36:51.000 So literally, all of a sudden, he's there looking at you from 70, 80 feet away.
02:36:59.000 You didn't even see him coming.
02:37:00.000 All of a sudden he appears because it's so dense.
02:37:03.000 There's so many trees up there.
02:37:04.000 I was calling turkeys one time and had a bear come behind me.
02:37:10.000 You know, like predators, when you're calling turkeys in the spring, you're making hen noises to track males, track the toms, but predators will come to that noise.
02:37:20.000 And I had a bear come in behind me that I never heard until I heard it breathe.
02:37:28.000 Whoa!
02:37:30.000 It sounded like a dude.
02:37:31.000 And you're on the ground sitting, right?
02:37:33.000 No, I'm sitting on the ground and I hear...
02:37:35.000 I mean, this thing was right there.
02:37:39.000 Like five feet?
02:37:40.000 I heard it breathe over my shoulder.
02:37:41.000 How many feet?
02:37:42.000 Yeah, like from, I don't know, five, six feet.
02:37:45.000 I'm just there.
02:37:46.000 But when I turned, I was scared, but that thing was more scary when I turned.
02:37:50.000 He like turned himself inside out, man.
02:37:53.000 Just took off?
02:37:54.000 Oh, yeah, it was amazing.
02:37:55.000 Wow.
02:37:55.000 You know, it's funny, we're talking about like bears climbing trees, black bears and grizzly bears.
02:38:00.000 I wrote about this at some point, but...
02:38:02.000 My brother and I were laying on this ridge one time hunting elk, and during the midday when it's warm, nothing happens.
02:38:07.000 We'll just go sleep somewhere and wait for the elk to come back out, because they go into black timber just to bed down.
02:38:13.000 So there's really no sense, and there's nothing you can do.
02:38:16.000 You just sleep.
02:38:17.000 And at one point I wake up, because I hear a noise, and I wake up and there's a black bear standing there, and he goes off down this ridge line.
02:38:25.000 I'm sorry, it just goes down off the ridge down toward the valley floor.
02:38:29.000 That night, we headed out to go hunt elk, and we happened to go in the direction that the bear went.
02:38:37.000 And my brother still had a bear tag.
02:38:39.000 I had filled my bear tag, but he still had a bear tag.
02:38:41.000 And as we're walking, I hear the noise of its claws on the bark.
02:38:47.000 Like a real loud, you know, like barks falling and scratching.
02:38:50.000 You can imagine what a cat would sound like or something, scratching up something.
02:38:55.000 I'm like, that must be that black bear.
02:38:57.000 So we go hauling ass up the tree thinking that we'll maybe get the bear up the tree and be able to check it out.
02:39:05.000 But we run up there and it's not a black bear.
02:39:07.000 It's a sow grizzly standing there and she's got two cubs that are about four or five feet up this tree and she's standing there at the base of the tree and she woofs at us like a dog.
02:39:17.000 Like a woof.
02:39:19.000 Barking.
02:39:20.000 And those cubs come down the tree and we're just standing right there, man.
02:39:24.000 You can never say it was close to getting scratched unless you got scratched because you don't know what's in the animal's head.
02:39:30.000 But reviewing it in my head, that was a very sketchy moment.
02:39:36.000 The last thing you're supposed to do is mess with their cubs.
02:39:39.000 And here we are just running up on there.
02:39:41.000 And when she got those cubs down out of the tree and they started going up the hill away from us, she was taking her paw and moving the cubs with her paw.
02:39:51.000 Wow.
02:39:52.000 Pushing them ahead of her.
02:39:54.000 Wow.
02:39:55.000 The same way when you're trying to get your kids to go where you want, your eyes have got your hand on their head or you're somehow trying to guide them.
02:40:02.000 Wow.
02:40:02.000 Yeah, she's like, get going, get going.
02:40:04.000 Wow.
02:40:05.000 That was wild, man.
02:40:06.000 But she could have spun around and just scratched us back.
02:40:08.000 Well, they say that's the big reason why a lot of people, hikers, get attacked, right?
02:40:12.000 It's a female with their cuffs.
02:40:13.000 You're just coming across something.
02:40:15.000 Yeah.
02:40:16.000 This blew my mind.
02:40:18.000 I just read that not a single bowhunter has been killed by a grizzly bear You know, while bowhunting, even though bowhunters get scratched up all the time, like every year there's some guy getting scratched up.
02:40:28.000 Not a single bowhunter's been killed by a grizzly bear in at least 20 years.
02:40:31.000 Wow.
02:40:32.000 You know, last year there was like three grizzly bear fatalities in Montana, Wyoming.
02:40:36.000 Well, that was one of the things you saw on that hunt show, was how difficult it is to bowhunt for grizzlies, because...
02:40:42.000 First of all, Kodiak Island was very windy.
02:40:46.000 These guys were taking shots and the arrow would just take off and miss the bear.
02:40:51.000 Windy and just miserable and wet.
02:40:53.000 You've got to get so close with a bow, man.
02:40:56.000 It's one thing being a stand and waiting for a whitetail to walk underneath you, but to creep up on a fucking giant 9-foot bear that's outside...
02:41:06.000 You've got to get within 30-40 yards of this thing to get an accurate shot on it.
02:41:10.000 And it's windy and everything there, but...
02:41:12.000 Now, in that show, when they're doing that, this happens a lot, but I know that shows don't show it, and outdoor writers don't write about it.
02:41:24.000 But oftentimes, very often, I can't say it's the majority of the time, but a very common practice when a guy's bowhunting brown bears is the minute that arrow makes contact with that bear, the guy's lighting it up with a 375 H&H. So they'll shoot it with a gun right after the- The minute that arrow hits.
02:41:45.000 Yeah, that's probably smart.
02:41:47.000 I mean, I saw that on a show, it was a bow hunting show, where this guy shot a fucking elephant with a bow, and the elephant turned, and he was like, fuck you, and the elephant starts running him, and boom, they shot him in the head with a rifle.
02:42:01.000 And he's going to call that, I hunted an elephant with a bow.
02:42:04.000 Like, the fuck you did?
02:42:05.000 All you did was piss an elephant off, and it charged you, and these guides shot the elephant in the head.
02:42:11.000 They killed the elephant.
02:42:12.000 Yeah, I'm not diminishing the balls it takes to get in there.
02:42:16.000 I watched a thing where Tom Miranda kills a big grizzly with his bow, and by any means, it was like...
02:42:26.000 He got a great hit on that bear.
02:42:28.000 That bear ran and fell over.
02:42:28.000 I'm not saying that's what happened.
02:42:29.000 I'm saying you hear about it so often.
02:42:32.000 You talk to guides so often.
02:42:33.000 And they even do it with rifles.
02:42:35.000 Even if a guy hits it with a rifle, he's going to start pumping lead.
02:42:39.000 Because it's so hard to anchor them.
02:42:40.000 And then they go in those alders and you don't want to lose them.
02:42:43.000 You don't want to go in there after them.
02:42:44.000 So as long as you take the initial shot, they consider you shot that bear, and then everybody else shoots it afterwards.
02:42:49.000 And the guide, you know, or whoever can do a follow.
02:42:51.000 I really didn't like watching them shoot the elephant.
02:42:53.000 There's something to me about shooting some animals where it's like, I don't get it.
02:42:58.000 Like, I don't know why you would travel all the way to Africa to shoot an elephant with a bow while these people behind you rifle it, and you're calling that bow hunting.
02:43:08.000 I couldn't shoot an elephant just because I don't have a context with the animal.
02:43:15.000 A cultural context.
02:43:16.000 Do you know what I'm saying?
02:43:17.000 With North American animals, I find that generally when I go hunt something, I like to have experience with it and understand it.
02:43:27.000 For African hunting, for me to enjoy hunting in Africa, I would probably want to go there just to have a look around.
02:43:37.000 We're good to go.
02:44:00.000 This year we're going down to Bolivia and we'll go out hunting with Amerindians or go along on a hunt with Amerindians.
02:44:10.000 They go out and do meat hunts for capybara, paca, they bow fish for fish a lot.
02:44:15.000 One of the things they like to hunt is they like to hunt spider monkeys.
02:44:19.000 And I've always vowed I'll never eat a monkey.
02:44:22.000 I used to always say that.
02:44:24.000 I'll never eat a monkey.
02:44:24.000 But now I'm going to be down there and these guys, presumably, they're going to get a monkey.
02:44:29.000 They're going to cook it.
02:44:30.000 And you're going to try it?
02:44:31.000 I can't decide, man.
02:44:32.000 Yeah, I'm not into eating primates.
02:44:34.000 I just feel like...
02:44:37.000 I can't decide what I'll do when I'm sitting there.
02:44:39.000 I'd have to be starving.
02:44:41.000 I ate dogs and didn't like it at all.
02:44:43.000 Well, you ate a coyote, which is crazy.
02:44:45.000 That didn't bother me in an emotional way, but I'm saying I tripped out emotionally about eating a dog.
02:44:51.000 So I can't imagine what I might suffer.
02:44:56.000 To be chewing up a primate.
02:44:59.000 I'm not into it.
02:45:00.000 I remember reading one time, and this explained this to my brother the other day when I was talking about this conundrum I'm in, where I was reading about a guy who was describing the hunt for monkeys.
02:45:12.000 And a dude hit a...
02:45:13.000 He was observing South American tribal hunters or Amerindians.
02:45:20.000 He was observing them hunting monkeys.
02:45:21.000 And a monkey got shot in the back.
02:45:24.000 And the monkey with a dart.
02:45:26.000 And the monkey reached around and grabbed the dart.
02:45:30.000 Whoa.
02:45:30.000 So, that image is so burnt in my head.
02:45:37.000 I don't know what I'll do, man.
02:45:38.000 I'll be curious if the guys I work with, if they want to eat the monkey or not.
02:45:43.000 Yeah.
02:45:43.000 But there's so many weird things.
02:45:44.000 You go like this, though.
02:45:45.000 These guys are indigenous hunters.
02:45:47.000 They hunt.
02:45:48.000 They make their own bows.
02:45:49.000 They live in the jungle.
02:45:50.000 Any kind of thing.
02:45:51.000 If you went out and surveyed 100 Americans, 100 would say, by all means, if anyone...
02:45:58.000 Can justify hunting to be these boys, right?
02:46:02.000 They're hunting whether you're with them or not.
02:46:05.000 So it's kind of like you look at, well, the monkey's dead now.
02:46:09.000 Yeah, I guess I could see that.
02:46:10.000 What I couldn't see is going there with a purpose to go shoot a monkey.
02:46:14.000 I guess if I was there experiencing what it is like for them, and also if they offered me a monkey, like if it was part of like, you're taken into their home and they're cooking you a meal and they ask you, you know, they serve you what they eat, maybe then I would eat it.
02:46:30.000 Yeah, no, there's no way I'd shoot a monkey.
02:46:32.000 Yeah.
02:46:33.000 And by saying that, I don't think that one shouldn't be allowed and whatever, you know, it just depends on the consensus of biologists in whatever area, whether they can warrant it or not, but no, I wouldn't.
02:46:43.000 It's just like, I couldn't.
02:46:45.000 Yeah, I couldn't either, but I know that they have issues with baboons and people.
02:46:50.000 Dude, in Africa, it's just like, I guess, I can't get it, but in Africa, you get the sense that people view baboons almost like how you might, like, I hate to say it, but you might look at raccoons and opossums that are getting into your dumpster.
02:47:07.000 Yes, but they'll kill a baby.
02:47:10.000 They'll kill a human baby.
02:47:11.000 Is that right?
02:47:11.000 They're stolen human babies.
02:47:12.000 I don't know the first thing about them.
02:47:13.000 Yeah, Cameron Haynes, who just got back from Africa, he shot a fucking baboon over there.
02:47:17.000 Shot a baboon with a bow and arrow.
02:47:19.000 And I'm like, why don't you shoot a baboon?
02:47:20.000 And he's like, they actually encourage you to shoot as many baboons as possible because they're overpopulated and they're really dangerous.
02:47:25.000 That's what friends of mine told me, man.
02:47:27.000 Do the guys in Africa eat the baboons?
02:47:30.000 No.
02:47:30.000 No.
02:47:30.000 They don't eat the baboons, and they don't eat the hyenas.
02:47:32.000 They don't like the hyenas?
02:47:34.000 No.
02:47:34.000 They kill them.
02:47:35.000 They kill them whenever they can because they're so overpopulated, but they don't eat them.
02:47:38.000 But he ate a kudu.
02:47:39.000 He shot a kudu over there and ate that.
02:47:41.000 He said it was amazing.
02:47:42.000 Yeah.
02:47:42.000 He said kudu is similar, I guess, in a lot of ways to deer, elk, in the way it tastes.
02:47:48.000 The word overpopulated is such a weird word, and it's such an abused word.
02:47:52.000 Whenever I hear that, I always get like, according to whose perspective?
02:47:55.000 Right, right.
02:47:55.000 Good point.
02:47:55.000 Because again and again, we're told, like, deer are overpopulated.
02:47:58.000 Like, yeah, I mean...
02:47:59.000 We're good to go.
02:48:20.000 If I lived in some areas, there's some areas of western Massachusetts that are so flooded with deer, I would definitely have one of those crazy bumpers on my truck.
02:48:29.000 You know, they have those crazy big steel bumpers.
02:48:31.000 Brush guards, man.
02:48:32.000 Well, they make them specifically for deer, too.
02:48:34.000 To withstand a deer hit.
02:48:35.000 Yeah, there was one of them that we were pulling up photos of the other day of 18-wheelers that they have these giant ones they put over the front of their trucks because deer are so common in a lot of these areas where they're transporting stuff, and they had one where this deer had just...
02:48:49.000 It hit it, and the guard did its job, but the fucking entire truck was just painted with blood, you know, because it was going 65 miles an hour, and you hit an animal.
02:48:59.000 It's basically a bag of blood.
02:49:00.000 It vaporizes in such a disturbing way.
02:49:03.000 I recently wrote a thing about this on the meat-eater show.
02:49:07.000 Show website where I was talking about these recent controversies where someone will go and kill an African animal, kill a lion, pull a picture of a lion.
02:49:16.000 By the way, tell people where they can get that because I loved your perspective on it and I loved one of the things you pointed out about you've seen all these things where people are getting pissed off, these pretty girls that are going over there and shooting these animals.
02:49:28.000 A lot of it is sexism.
02:49:29.000 Oh yeah, man.
02:49:31.000 For a girl to go to Africa and hunt, pisses off people way more than for a dude to.
02:49:35.000 And also, for a wealthy person to hunt in Africa, pisses off way more people than a middle class person hunting in Africa.
02:49:41.000 Which is just weird.
02:49:43.000 It's so beyond the biology.
02:49:45.000 It's just weird...
02:49:47.000 You know, sexual stuff.
02:49:49.000 It's weird.
02:49:51.000 Envy.
02:49:51.000 Class envy.
02:49:52.000 However you want to think.
02:49:53.000 Like, whatever you want to determine about the legitimacy of hunting in Africa should really have nothing to do with the gender of the hunter.
02:50:01.000 Yeah.
02:50:02.000 But this thing...
02:50:03.000 Like, one point I tried to make in that thing that I wrote...
02:50:05.000 You could find it if you just go...
02:50:07.000 You could probably even type in, like...
02:50:10.000 Stephen Rinella, African hunting controversy.
02:50:13.000 Go to themeater.com, you'll find the article.
02:50:16.000 But the point I make is, when people look at someone posing with an African animal, like a lion, I think people look at it and they feel like they see a dead movie star.
02:50:29.000 Because they don't know...
02:50:31.000 Like, all you know of that animal is sort of wildlife documentaries and then cartoon versions and The Lion King.
02:50:40.000 It's like, you feel like you're looking at that.
02:50:42.000 But in America, we drive down the road and we see just like contorted...
02:50:49.000 Pulverized deer carcasses.
02:50:51.000 Yeah.
02:50:51.000 You can't escape it.
02:50:53.000 Yes.
02:50:53.000 Yeah.
02:50:54.000 And so I feel like it's never going to be as offensive.
02:50:57.000 When someone sees a dead deer, it's not as shocking to them as being like, it's the animal from the movies!
02:51:03.000 Right, right, right.
02:51:03.000 And they killed it!
02:51:04.000 Yeah, the anthropomorphizing of an animal is a real issue when it comes to that.
02:51:07.000 It really feels to people more like...
02:51:09.000 I remember a friend of mine who worked in the environmental movement, or I shouldn't say that because that's...
02:51:14.000 She was a conservationist.
02:51:15.000 She worked in the conservation movement.
02:51:17.000 And she complained about, half-jokingly, about charismatic megafauna.
02:51:24.000 So much mental energy of Americans gets tied up in the preservation of charismatic megafauna.
02:51:34.000 And those things become such money sinks that we miss...
02:51:41.000 Opportunities to understand this vast suite of other creatures out there that doesn't make it onto calendars.
02:51:48.000 If I remember, I think she was speaking of the amount of research dollars and public interest and things that go into wolves.
02:51:57.000 Like understanding wolves.
02:51:59.000 And there's all the other animals that she calls non-charismatic megafauna.
02:52:03.000 You just can't get someone...
02:52:06.000 To, like, care about them.
02:52:07.000 Yeah.
02:52:08.000 You know?
02:52:08.000 And I think that's one, as far as conservation goes, I think that's one thing that conservation organizations that are based off of specific animals will always tell you is that they're looking at, like, apex or keystone, cornerstone species.
02:52:22.000 So, like, a group like the National Wild Turkey Federation or the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, they'll point out, they'll be like, yeah, this is about elk.
02:52:29.000 We have elk on our symbol.
02:52:31.000 You might think that we fetishize elk, but I can tell you this, what's good for elk is good for everybody.
02:52:36.000 Yeah.
02:52:37.000 It's one of the most demanding, least tolerant things.
02:52:39.000 And so if you preserve elk wintering habitat, you're also, at the same time, preserving the habitats of so many other species.
02:52:48.000 And you might not say the same thing about if you went and preserved the habitat of some animal with a more restricted home range or something.
02:52:58.000 It might not blossom outward to offer protection for all these other things.
02:53:02.000 Yeah.
02:53:02.000 So that's one way in which the charismatic megafauna thing winds up playing out is people go like, yeah, but by helping him, I'm helping everybody.
02:53:10.000 So I'd like to have something for my calendar.
02:53:12.000 People have that aversion to trophy hunting.
02:53:15.000 That's one of the other things that drives people nuts about Africa is that people are going over there for bloodlust.
02:53:21.000 They're going over there just to kill.
02:53:22.000 They want to stuff it and put on their wall this beautiful animal that should just be observed and appreciated for what it is.
02:53:28.000 Yeah.
02:53:28.000 Yeah.
02:53:31.000 That's something I struggled with.
02:53:32.000 And earlier I made a term about something being like a semantics thing.
02:53:36.000 Because if you go and hunt and you keep something, like you have right here in your studio, you have a deer antler.
02:53:45.000 You got like a deer skull, right?
02:53:48.000 By really any definition, you'd be like, well, that's a hunting trophy.
02:53:51.000 Does that make you then a trophy hunter?
02:53:54.000 Even though you ate the deer.
02:53:57.000 To be a non-trophy hunter, would that mean that you should have thrown that deer head in the garbage in order to be more pure?
02:54:02.000 Or is it more pure that you'd maintain that emblem and pay respect to the animal in perpetuity by having its head here?
02:54:11.000 It's like you kept a trophy.
02:54:13.000 You kept the meat and kept the trophy.
02:54:15.000 But when people hear trophy hunter, I think what that means in our culture is that someone just hunts for that purpose.
02:54:21.000 He just wants to go kill that thing.
02:54:22.000 And this is coming from a guy who's never hunted in Africa.
02:54:25.000 But so much of the controversy about Africa is that people are going there and killing animals just for the head and bringing them home.
02:54:35.000 In that way, you're probably trivializing the experience, but you're also not really looking at the broad picture of how game gets managed there and the importance that the commodification of wildlife plays in Africa, where here we have publicly owned wildlife.
02:54:52.000 And we have a really stringent system where we can legally protect stuff.
02:54:57.000 But in Africa, there's a great argument to be made for if it wasn't for the value of those animals to Westerners, if it wasn't for the hunting industry, those animals wouldn't be in those places where they are.
02:55:09.000 They literally didn't have those animals there before.
02:55:12.000 There's way too many forces and factors that would have led to those being ravaged ecosystems, hunting from people who are starving or who are wanting to graze livestock in those areas.
02:55:26.000 And the fact that you bring in a currency...
02:55:29.000 And you monetize them, enables people to preserve these large tracts of land and have animals on there.
02:55:35.000 So you can look at, like, what is Joe Blow's motivation?
02:55:39.000 Joe Blow's motivation might be he thinks it'd be sweet to have a zebra hide on his floor.
02:55:45.000 And you can condemn Joe Blow for thinking that.
02:55:48.000 But you really, to be fair, you have to look at the impact of That money that he spent to get it has on the broader economy and on the wildlife politics of that place.
02:56:01.000 So it's way more complicated than what any one individual's motivations were.
02:56:06.000 And it's just...
02:56:09.000 I just caution people...
02:56:10.000 And I'll tell you what, I've had my share of looking at...
02:56:14.000 Pictures of guys hunting in Africa and being like, dude, you just went out and paid someone and he showed you that.
02:56:18.000 And you're like, well, that's what one of those is and shot it.
02:56:21.000 I've felt that a thousand times looking at those pictures.
02:56:23.000 But it's one of those things that the more I've learned about it and spoke to people who've gone there and read about it, the more I've come to admit that, you know what, what's going on in Africa is vastly more complicated than what you're going to get From reading about internet controversies,
02:56:39.000 people posting pictures.
02:56:40.000 You really need to study up on that stuff before you condemn it, because I think you'll be kind of shocked by some of the stuff you learn.
02:56:46.000 If anybody's interested in it further, we're just about out of time, but Louis Theroux has a documentary.
02:56:51.000 Theroux?
02:56:52.000 How do you say his name?
02:56:52.000 Theroux.
02:56:53.000 Louis Theroux has a documentary about African hunting camps where he kind of goes into great detail with these guys that run these camps about how these animals...
02:57:01.000 They essentially wouldn't be there if it wasn't.
02:57:04.000 They would be extinct.
02:57:05.000 We're out of time, right?
02:57:06.000 Okay.
02:57:07.000 All right, dude.
02:57:08.000 Your book.
02:57:09.000 The Buffalo book's published.
02:57:11.000 Oh, no.
02:57:11.000 You know, my first book...
02:57:15.000 Which never had a chance in the real world, Scavenger's Guide to Oat Cuisine.
02:57:18.000 It came out a long time ago, but I got the rights to it back.
02:57:21.000 Right.
02:57:22.000 And I published it digitally as the Scavenger's Guide.
02:57:26.000 I hope people go read it.
02:57:28.000 It never got read when it came out, not like my other books did, man.
02:57:30.000 And like I said, they just gave me my rights back.
02:57:33.000 How can they get it?
02:57:33.000 How can someone get it?
02:57:34.000 Oh, it's on every place you can buy digital books.
02:57:36.000 Okay, we'll put a link up to it after the show.
02:57:40.000 And I also put a link up to the Daniel Boone thing that you did, the animated thing.
02:57:43.000 Oh, sweet, man.
02:57:44.000 That's great.
02:57:44.000 That was just up.
02:57:46.000 Dude, time flew.
02:57:47.000 It's over.
02:57:48.000 Hey, thank you for having me on.
02:57:49.000 Anytime, man.
02:57:50.000 Anytime.
02:57:50.000 Wish you lived closer.
02:57:51.000 We do it all the time.
02:57:52.000 Well, you are kind of closer now.
02:57:53.000 And we're going to be real close when we're sharing the same tent.
02:57:56.000 Pretty close.
02:57:57.000 Alright, folks.
02:57:58.000 Thanks to our sponsor.
02:57:59.000 Thanks to Blue Apron.
02:58:00.000 Go to blueapron.com slash rogan and get two meals for free.
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02:58:19.000 Alright, you fucks.
02:58:20.000 We'll be back soon.
02:58:22.000 Tomorrow, in fact.
02:58:23.000 See you soon.
02:58:24.000 Bye.