The Joe Rogan Experience - September 08, 2014


Joe Rogan Experience #546 - Mike Dolce


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 59 minutes

Words per Minute

193.59213

Word Count

34,824

Sentence Count

3,108

Misogynist Sentences

60

Hate Speech Sentences

28


Summary

On this week's episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, we're joined by the snack company, NatureBox, to talk about their new line of healthy snack boxes, and why they're the best snack options out there. Plus, we talk about how to get a deal with the Better Business Bureau and why you shouldn't be breaking the law to do it. Also, we have a new segment called "Drunk on Heroin" and it's about how you can get a free shot of heroin if you're drunk enough to be doing drugs and get caught doing it in your own home, and how to stop yourself from getting caught doing the same thing. And, of course, we finish the episode with a quiz from our listeners about whether or not you can be drunk and still do it legally, and if you can do it at the same time, and what you should do about it. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, LegalZoom, and NatureBox. We're also getting a 50% discount on our first box from NatureBox! Subscribe to the show to get 50% off your first box! Want to sponsor the show? Subscribe, rate, and review it? Just go to gimlet.fm/TheJoeRoganExperience and enter the code "JOERogan" at checkout to get 10% off the entire show! and get 20% off for the rest of the show, plus free shipping on all future episodes, plus a free shipping, plus an ad-free version of the entire year, shipping included in the first month, shipping free, shipping, and free shipping throughout the entire month of the year, and a FREE shipping offer, plus shipping on the second month, and an additional $10/month, and no additional shipping on future orders, and shipping on a second year of the next year, free shipping available in the second year, plus all other options available to you get a year of your choice, plus you get an extra $10,000 in the show gets a maximum of $50,000 shipping and a $150, plus FREE shipping, you get $5,000, plus the choice of your first year, you can choose a maximum, and you get it all that you choose, you'll get $10% off, and they'll get a $25,000 Shipping, plus they'll also get a discount on your first month and a lifetime of the whole thing.


Transcript

00:00:07.000 Go.
00:00:07.000 It's on?
00:00:07.000 Yes.
00:00:08.000 Oh, Jesus fucking Christ.
00:00:09.000 Sorry.
00:00:10.000 This episode of the podcast is brought to you by your mother's vagina.
00:00:13.000 That's how you got here.
00:00:14.000 Whoa.
00:00:15.000 So everything's brought to you from that.
00:00:17.000 To you, personally.
00:00:18.000 Not me.
00:00:19.000 I don't know your mother.
00:00:20.000 What a terrible way to start a show.
00:00:23.000 This episode is brought to you by Squarespace.
00:00:25.000 Squarespace is the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website.
00:00:31.000 And I really do mean professional.
00:00:32.000 They make fucking amazing websites.
00:00:35.000 If you go to devsquad.tv and check out the website that Brian has created, along with the online store that he's created, he did it in about fucking ten minutes.
00:00:42.000 It's incredible how easy it is.
00:00:44.000 Drag-and-drop interface.
00:00:46.000 24-7 support.
00:00:47.000 And it works great on everything.
00:00:50.000 On Android, iPhone, Unix, Linux.
00:00:53.000 Work on whatever you want.
00:00:54.000 Windows, Mac, PC. Very easy to use.
00:00:59.000 Plan start at $8 a month.
00:01:00.000 That includes a free domain name if you sign up for a year.
00:01:04.000 Responsive design.
00:01:05.000 And your design will look awesome on any device.
00:01:08.000 Online commerce.
00:01:09.000 Very easy to set up.
00:01:11.000 Easy as peasy.
00:01:12.000 I don't even think that's a real thing to say.
00:01:14.000 Easy peasy?
00:01:15.000 It's awesome.
00:01:16.000 That's what I'm trying to tell you.
00:01:17.000 Every site comes with an online store.
00:01:19.000 Really, really easy to do.
00:01:21.000 Squarespace has a logo creator.
00:01:23.000 We can create a clean, simple design for yourself in minutes.
00:01:27.000 And every design automatically includes a unique mobile experience that matches the overall style of your website.
00:01:33.000 So your content will look great on everything all the time.
00:01:37.000 For a free trial and 10% off your first purchase, go to squarespace.com and enter the code word Joe.
00:01:44.000 Squarespace, a better web, starts with your website.
00:01:50.000 We're also brought to you by Naturebox, the official snack provider for the podcast, the Joe Rogan Experience podcast.
00:01:56.000 That's this one.
00:01:57.000 It's the one you're listening to.
00:01:59.000 Naturebox, I'm eating some of that shit right now.
00:02:00.000 If you hear me going, that's because I have Santa Fe corn stick stuck in my teeth.
00:02:06.000 I'm a fan.
00:02:07.000 I'm a fan of all this shit.
00:02:08.000 Nature Box is a way where you can get healthy snacks.
00:02:11.000 Well, we'll run this shit by Mike Dolce.
00:02:13.000 You'll see how healthy it really is.
00:02:15.000 Chocolate quinoa granola.
00:02:17.000 How are you going to fuck with that, Mike Dolce?
00:02:18.000 That sounds pretty good.
00:02:19.000 That's good shit, dude.
00:02:21.000 Nature Box has zero trans fats.
00:02:24.000 Zero high fructose corn syrup.
00:02:26.000 You can find snacks that are low in sugar, non-GMO. If you want it gluten-free, you can get that.
00:02:33.000 And they ship for free.
00:02:35.000 I know a lot of you folks work in offices and, you know, sometimes you get hungry and you can't leave the office and you're stuck.
00:02:41.000 You're stuck with that stupid vending machine where probably if you're lucky, if you're lucky, there's peanuts in there.
00:02:47.000 Most likely it's just bullshit though.
00:02:50.000 Chips and chocolate bars and all that shit.
00:02:52.000 You can get NatureBox shipped We're good to go.
00:03:17.000 Those blueberry almonds, ooh, those are awesome.
00:03:19.000 The dark cocoa almonds, those are fucking pretty fantastic, too.
00:03:22.000 There's a lot of great choices with NatureBox.
00:03:25.000 Hopefully, they'll figure out a better supplier for their fucking sriracha cashews.
00:03:29.000 They're too good.
00:03:30.000 They're that good.
00:03:31.000 I'm not bullshitting.
00:03:33.000 I've had so many people tweet me going, dude, you were fucking right.
00:03:35.000 I thought you were exaggerating.
00:03:37.000 They're real.
00:03:38.000 They're legit.
00:03:39.000 Go to naturebox.com right now.
00:03:42.000 For a 50% savings off your first box, free shipping, go to naturebox.com forward slash Rogan.
00:03:51.000 That's naturebox.com forward slash Rogan.
00:03:55.000 And last, but certainly not least, we're brought to you by LegalZoom.
00:04:00.000 And LegalZoom is a way that you can handle a lot of legal bullshit from the comforts of your own home.
00:04:07.000 Naked and on heroin.
00:04:09.000 You can do all sorts of legal stuff and no one can fucking stop you.
00:04:13.000 You could be drunk.
00:04:14.000 You could be masturbating.
00:04:16.000 They can't do a goddamn thing about it.
00:04:18.000 Breaking the law.
00:04:19.000 Breaking the law.
00:04:19.000 But you're not breaking the law.
00:04:20.000 That's the thing.
00:04:21.000 You're doing it legally.
00:04:22.000 What NatureBox...
00:04:24.000 LegalZoom is a way that you can get snacks delivered to you.
00:04:30.000 LegalZoom is a way that you don't have to leave your fucking house.
00:04:33.000 You can just stay put and deal with...
00:04:35.000 You can get a power of attorney.
00:04:36.000 You get a personalized will.
00:04:38.000 You get a living trust.
00:04:39.000 LegalZoom has an A-plus from the Better Business Bureau.
00:04:43.000 That's a weird word.
00:04:45.000 I need a better word for bureau.
00:04:46.000 It's a weird word.
00:04:47.000 It's like some fucking 1800s shit.
00:04:49.000 Better Business Bureau.
00:04:50.000 Furniture.
00:04:51.000 Yeah.
00:04:52.000 It's fucking sort of dressing.
00:04:54.000 It's ridiculous.
00:04:55.000 But, point is, whatever that thing is, the BB whatever, Better Business BBB, LegalZoom has gotten A-plus from them.
00:05:07.000 LegalZoom has, for over 10 years, they've helped protect people's assets with LLCs, S-corporations, trademarks, real estate documents, and more.
00:05:16.000 They're services developed by some of the best legal minds in the country, and they make it painless for you to get legal protection that you need.
00:05:22.000 If you call or visit LegalZoom, they will take care of you from start to finish.
00:05:27.000 And for special savings, please make sure to enter the code word ROGAN in the referral box at checkout.
00:05:34.000 LegalZoom was developed by top attorneys to provide self-help services at your specific direction, but they are not a law firm.
00:05:42.000 They can, however, connect you with a third-party attorney.
00:05:45.000 Like if you're one of those panicky fuckers and you can't handle it.
00:05:49.000 So, if you freak out, they can connect you with someone that tells you, don't freak out.
00:05:55.000 You're going to be okay.
00:05:55.000 It's easy to do though, folks.
00:05:57.000 It's very easy, step by step.
00:05:58.000 They'll take care of you from start to finish.
00:06:01.000 And it all can be done, like so much can be done for a fraction of what it would cost you.
00:06:06.000 To pay an attorney to do these things.
00:06:08.000 Not to mention the fact that you don't have to drive to an office.
00:06:12.000 You don't have to make an appointment.
00:06:13.000 You don't have to park.
00:06:14.000 None of that nonsense.
00:06:15.000 You could do 99% of all that stuff at LegalZoom.com.
00:06:20.000 LegalZoom.com.
00:06:21.000 Make sure you enter the code word ROGAN in the referral box at checkout.
00:06:25.000 And save yourself some cash.
00:06:29.000 Alright, without further ado, I try to keep these things in the minimum, ladies and gentlemen.
00:06:33.000 I know people say, Tim Rogan, your fucking commercials take so much time.
00:06:37.000 They don't necessarily have to take so much time.
00:06:40.000 They take time only because I bullshit during the commercials, and also because I really do try to only have things on the podcast that we use.
00:06:50.000 LegalZoom was used by us to start on it.
00:06:53.000 The deskwad.tv, LegalZoom was used by Brian to start that.
00:06:59.000 Bring things on the podcast as a sponsor that I believe in.
00:07:02.000 I used LegalZoom to get Dolce Diet registered years ago.
00:07:05.000 Mike Dolce uses LegalZoom, you fucks.
00:07:07.000 Come on now.
00:07:08.000 Come on now.
00:07:08.000 All right, that's it.
00:07:09.000 Boom, shall lock, lock, boom.
00:07:11.000 Cue the music.
00:07:12.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:07:14.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:07:20.000 Fitness guru to the stars, Mike Dolce, my friend.
00:07:24.000 What's up, brother?
00:07:24.000 Good to see you, brother.
00:07:25.000 Likewise.
00:07:25.000 Thanks for coming back here.
00:07:26.000 Cheers to you.
00:07:27.000 Thanks, Jim.
00:07:28.000 Thanks for coming on, man.
00:07:29.000 I got a lot of questions.
00:07:31.000 Got a lot of questions.
00:07:32.000 Diet questions.
00:07:33.000 Nature Box questions.
00:07:35.000 Granola, quinoa, chocolate granola.
00:07:36.000 Let me check that out, please.
00:07:37.000 Yeah, please do.
00:07:38.000 See what's up with Nature Box.
00:07:39.000 There we go.
00:07:40.000 It's yummy.
00:07:40.000 I'll tell you that.
00:07:41.000 It's yummy as fuck.
00:07:42.000 You don't have to check that out.
00:07:43.000 But I want to talk to you about a lot of people who don't understand mixed martial arts or maybe they're casual fans.
00:07:51.000 They don't know that there's a lot going on in MMA. And one of the things that's going on besides the fact that it's a very dangerous, very...
00:08:00.000 It's a highly charged sport with a lot on the line for the competitors.
00:08:05.000 But one of the things that's on the line that a lot of people aren't aware of is a thing that we call weight cutting.
00:08:10.000 And so I can fill people in that may just not know much about MMA. If a fighter is going to fight at, say, 145 pounds.
00:08:18.000 That's one of our weight classes.
00:08:20.000 They probably don't really weigh 145 pounds.
00:08:23.000 It's very rare that you get a guy like Frankie Edgar, who was the lightweight champion, who lightweight in the UFC is 155 pounds.
00:08:31.000 That's what he actually used to weigh.
00:08:33.000 He was really fit, and he walked around at 155. He didn't cut any weight to weigh in for the weight class, and he was always smaller than almost anyone in his division.
00:08:43.000 He still won and beat some of the best guys in the planet just because he's really tough and very highly skilled, but that's the rarity.
00:08:51.000 The only division where that doesn't take place is in the heavyweight division, which guys don't have to cut any weight at all, generally speaking.
00:08:57.000 There was a few exceptions, like Tim Sylvia in his heyday used to be a little bit bigger, or Brock Lesnar might have cut a little, or...
00:09:03.000 Alistair Overeem, when he first fought in the UFC, cut a little.
00:09:05.000 But for the most part, those guys get to eat whatever the fuck they want.
00:09:08.000 For everybody else, essentially there's two different events going on.
00:09:12.000 There's the event where there's a fight, where you're training to compete against the best mixed martial arts fighters in the world, but then there's also the weigh-in.
00:09:21.000 And the weigh-in is an event in and of itself.
00:09:23.000 It is a huge thing, because you get guys like, a perfect example of extreme examples is Gleason Tebow, which I don't think Gleason's missed weight.
00:09:33.000 Has he ever missed weight?
00:09:34.000 Not that I know of.
00:09:35.000 He figures out a way to do it.
00:09:36.000 They get it done.
00:09:37.000 But Gleason is fucking enormous.
00:09:40.000 He fights at 155. I weigh in the high 190s and he's bigger than me.
00:09:46.000 So I don't know how the fuck he does it.
00:09:48.000 I really don't know how the guy does it.
00:09:50.000 He suffers.
00:09:50.000 He suffers.
00:09:51.000 And he gets down to 155 for a very brief window of time and then rehydrates the shit out of himself.
00:09:57.000 Yeah, and that's the goal.
00:09:58.000 Ultimately, what we're trying to do is trying to be on weight for the shortest time possible to minimize the ill effects of being at that weight.
00:10:05.000 A guy like Nick Lentz, 145 pounder, you brought up 45s.
00:10:08.000 So Nick Lentz, he does most of his training camp around 175 now.
00:10:11.000 Whoa!
00:10:12.000 That's so crazy!
00:10:14.000 Massive!
00:10:14.000 And we want to touch down at 45 and be there for really under an hour.
00:10:18.000 I want my athletes still kind of dripping that last sweat when they step on the scale so they can just graze the contract weight and immediately we hydrate them right back up again.
00:10:28.000 And when you say Nick Lentz walks around at 175 pounds, for folks that are listening to this, you go, oh, he gets fat.
00:10:33.000 No, he does not.
00:10:34.000 No, at 10% body fat.
00:10:36.000 Okay, that is so crazy.
00:10:38.000 How is it possible that a guy can be 175 at 10% body fat?
00:10:42.000 By the way, I'm a fat fuck.
00:10:43.000 I'm about 17% body fat.
00:10:46.000 You look leaner than that.
00:10:47.000 I don't know.
00:10:47.000 Maybe a little self-deprecating.
00:10:49.000 Maybe 15. Let's be nice.
00:10:51.000 Say I'm 15% body fat.
00:10:52.000 So this guy is 5% less body fat than me, and he's going to cut 30 fucking pounds.
00:10:58.000 How does a guy do that?
00:10:59.000 It's through...
00:11:01.000 There's a multi-stage process.
00:11:03.000 So when I back up, when I talk to an athlete or when I talk about weight cutting, I say, number one, it's not the best case scenario.
00:11:08.000 Weight cutting is something that unfortunately has to be done by a lot of athletes in order to minimize advantage as opposed to gaining an advantage.
00:11:17.000 But the weight cut should start 52 weeks before competition, which means this should be a lifestyle.
00:11:22.000 These athletes, and this is what they need to understand, and hopefully we can spread this message, is they need to be training and living and eating and breathing like professional athletes 365 days out of the year so they can minimize the downside of the weight cutting practice.
00:11:36.000 They need to be eating the proper foods.
00:11:38.000 Training intelligently, resting completely, so their body is able to endure the grueling practice of cutting weight.
00:11:46.000 So with Nick Lentz, he's fresh in the mind right now.
00:11:47.000 I was just with him in Connecticut last week.
00:11:49.000 He made weight 146, Charles Oliveira, his opponent.
00:11:52.000 He missed weight by four pounds, which was absolutely ridiculous, unprofessional.
00:11:56.000 But there's a saying that the first fight is with the scale.
00:12:00.000 So the athletes, when they get to the fight week or when they get to the location, they're focused on the scale.
00:12:07.000 They don't even think about the fight for the most part.
00:12:08.000 Is that a good thing?
00:12:10.000 Does it keep them from getting distracted about the fight?
00:12:12.000 Yeah, and that's actually one of the positive benefits of it is that they're not focused on the fight.
00:12:19.000 They're not burning all that nervous energy thinking about the fight.
00:12:22.000 But that sets in pretty quick as soon as they step off the scale and they have that first face-off.
00:12:26.000 In that case, maybe every fighter should have just a really fucking crazy girlfriend that demands all their time and only hook up with her the week of the fight so that she just demands all your, you know, all you fucking care about is what you eat!
00:12:38.000 You don't even care about me!
00:12:39.000 I'm not even the most important thing to you!
00:12:40.000 And just have like the most crazy, narcissistic, psychotic relationship.
00:12:45.000 And girls should have ridiculous guys.
00:12:47.000 Let me check your phone!
00:12:48.000 Let me check your phone!
00:12:49.000 Who's fucking texting you?
00:12:50.000 Your fucking trainer's too comfortable with you!
00:12:54.000 That actually happens.
00:12:55.000 I'm sure it does.
00:12:56.000 I'm sure it does.
00:12:58.000 For men and for women, right?
00:12:59.000 Now that we have a lot of women in the UFC, I bet it happens for them more.
00:13:03.000 Sure.
00:13:04.000 I bet guys are more psycho with their popular star women girlfriends.
00:13:09.000 Those fucking weird guys that are in the background that aren't famous and they have famous girlfriends.
00:13:14.000 Ew.
00:13:14.000 Ew.
00:13:14.000 Mean Mug and all the coaches, all the training partners, all the reporters.
00:13:18.000 Creepers.
00:13:18.000 Creepers, each and every one of them.
00:13:20.000 Not really.
00:13:21.000 I don't give a fuck.
00:13:22.000 Do whatever you want to do.
00:13:23.000 Okay.
00:13:23.000 But the point is that this is a genuine issue.
00:13:28.000 Absolutely.
00:13:28.000 And it's a genuine physical issue as well as a genuine psychological issue.
00:13:32.000 Yeah.
00:13:32.000 An amazing training camp.
00:13:33.000 Eight-week, 12-week training camp can be blown during fight week or in the 24, 48 hours before they step in the octagon or in the competition.
00:13:43.000 Because they blew their weight cut.
00:13:44.000 And then even if they do make weight, typically most athletes, a large majority, even at the high level, they blow their rehydration.
00:13:50.000 They step on weight.
00:13:51.000 They think, oh my God, I made it.
00:13:52.000 And they grab a sandwich from the deli or they go and get pasta, fettuccine Alfredo from the local Italian restaurant.
00:13:59.000 And they eat food that they haven't eaten in weeks or months before.
00:14:02.000 They totally screw up their digestive system.
00:14:04.000 Body goes to shit.
00:14:05.000 And they're a shadow of their former self.
00:14:08.000 Well, I know Chris Lieben talked pretty openly about how he did that.
00:14:11.000 In one of his weight cuts, he ate a bunch of gummy bears.
00:14:14.000 Yeah.
00:14:14.000 And he went into shock.
00:14:16.000 Yeah.
00:14:16.000 Like, his body literally went into some sort of a sugar shock because he just couldn't help himself.
00:14:21.000 Yeah, Lieben.
00:14:22.000 I've known Lieben since 2004 when I started working up at Team Quest in Oregon.
00:14:25.000 So I was his coach for a long time.
00:14:27.000 Worked with him for a few fights, not many of the fights recently.
00:14:30.000 The Vanderlei Silva fight was the most recent fight I worked with him.
00:14:33.000 That was one of his most spectacular victories of all time.
00:14:35.000 It was.
00:14:36.000 And that's when he was so motivated.
00:14:37.000 And that's the Chris I would have loved to have seen in all of his fights.
00:14:40.000 Because he was lean.
00:14:42.000 He was sharp.
00:14:42.000 He was ready.
00:14:43.000 He was confident.
00:14:44.000 He chased away a lot of the demons.
00:14:46.000 And quick Lieben story.
00:14:48.000 So we back up to a fight previous, years before that.
00:14:52.000 And I lost contact with him.
00:14:53.000 Hadn't seen him in a while.
00:14:54.000 And I see him.
00:14:55.000 I'm with another athlete in the casino.
00:14:56.000 I see Lieben.
00:14:58.000 And he's, you know, he's partying.
00:15:00.000 And this is right before the fight.
00:15:01.000 I'm like, bro, what are you...
00:15:02.000 How many hours before the fight?
00:15:04.000 It's like the day before.
00:15:05.000 So he's drinking?
00:15:06.000 He's, well, he's reeking of it, you know.
00:15:09.000 Yeah, I'm partying in whatever, whatever, you know...
00:15:12.000 Who is he going to fight?
00:15:14.000 God, I don't know.
00:15:15.000 And hopefully by the end of the show, I'll remember who it was.
00:15:17.000 And I think he actually won the fight, which is insane.
00:15:20.000 I mean, I got multiple leaving stories.
00:15:22.000 But I was like, Chris, what are you doing?
00:15:24.000 And he's like, Dolce, sometimes you just gotta dance with the girl you came with.
00:15:30.000 And I was like, motherfucker.
00:15:32.000 Alright, alright, Chris.
00:15:33.000 High five, good luck.
00:15:34.000 And I'm pretty positive he did go out there and win that fight.
00:15:37.000 I would imagine he did.
00:15:39.000 He's a wild motherfucker.
00:15:41.000 For real.
00:15:41.000 That's a great quote from Lieben, because that is literally how he got there.
00:15:45.000 He got there being a wild man.
00:15:51.000 We're good to go.
00:16:05.000 You know, I think...
00:16:06.000 I'm a huge Forrest Griffin fan.
00:16:08.000 I love Forrest, just as a person, and I'm a huge fan of his as a fighter.
00:16:13.000 But I think that one of the best and worst things that ever happened to him was that fight with...
00:16:19.000 I would say it's one of the greatest, most important fights in MMA. But the fight with Stefan Bonner in the finals of the Ultimate Fighter, the first season, which was such a crazy fight...
00:16:33.000 We're good to go.
00:16:55.000 In the finals, Stefan Bonner and Forrest Griffin went at it so hard that the ratings went through the roof.
00:17:03.000 They can monitor the ratings while the fight's going on.
00:17:06.000 And it went from a million people watching it when it first started to 10 million people at its peak, which is insane.
00:17:13.000 Absolutely.
00:17:14.000 Which they can track is directly related to people calling each other up and going, dude, you gotta fucking see this.
00:17:20.000 Turn on channel 248. These motherfuckers are throwing down.
00:17:23.000 And then people started calling each other and then they see through the fight.
00:17:27.000 It was a wild fight.
00:17:29.000 It was because you got two guys who knew each other super well, trained together for the six weeks they were in the house, and then went to war.
00:17:36.000 And they were so evenly matched that there was no winner in that fight.
00:17:41.000 At the end, Forrest Griffin won.
00:17:43.000 He got the decision, but it was so close that we actually talked about it inside the cage.
00:17:48.000 I said, why don't you give both these guys a fucking contract?
00:17:51.000 And they talked about it, and Lorenzo and Daniel were like, let's give both these guys a fucking contract.
00:17:55.000 And then, boom, they both got this big six-figure contract with the UFC. But...
00:18:01.000 That kind of style was so rewarded that it became how Stefan Bonner fought.
00:18:06.000 And I think he still kind of fights like that.
00:18:11.000 But Forrest Griffin, I think that it turned out to be his downfall in a lot of ways.
00:18:16.000 Like this face-forward, charging, aggressive style.
00:18:19.000 And that's how he lost to Keith Jardine.
00:18:22.000 I believe the more strategic Forrest Griffin was the one who beat Shogun.
00:18:28.000 He made some calculations.
00:18:30.000 He made some adjustments in his career.
00:18:32.000 But that style, he learned how to be this wild, reckless motherfucker because that was so rewarding.
00:18:40.000 And it's hard for an athlete sometimes to change their natural instinct.
00:18:46.000 I think.
00:18:47.000 And you see that in the gym where an athlete, either they're very tentative and calculating when they first get into the gym and they kind of have to bring out that monster a little bit and learn to be a finisher.
00:18:56.000 And they tend to look a little bit boring and maybe like an underachiever.
00:19:00.000 Or you get a guy like Forrest or Lieben that goes out there and they just go balls to the wall throwing big shots and sometimes they get knocked out and sometimes they get their hand raised.
00:19:08.000 Yeah.
00:19:27.000 Young kids coming in now that are better equipped and better skilled than the champions of 10 years ago.
00:19:33.000 And they're not even contenders yet.
00:19:35.000 They're outside the top 20, right?
00:19:37.000 Yeah, there's guys that are just coming up that are 21 years old that have a better skill set than world champions of 10 years ago.
00:19:44.000 It's amazing.
00:19:45.000 It's insanity.
00:19:46.000 It is amazing.
00:19:47.000 One of the issues when it comes to weight cutting and rehydration or dehydration rather is head trauma.
00:19:54.000 Yeah.
00:19:54.000 And it's one of the reasons why rehydrating with an IV is so critical.
00:19:59.000 Yeah.
00:19:59.000 Because if you look at boxing, the majority of the instances of men suffering in-fight brain damage, Gerald McClellan, Duck Ku Kim, like there's a lot of these cases and almost all of them involve someone weight cutting.
00:20:16.000 Yeah.
00:20:16.000 And because of that, boxing and now MMA has adjusted its schedule where the fighters weigh in the day before, where they used to weigh in the day of the match.
00:20:25.000 Old school boxing matches, you would see them weigh in the day of the match, and they would still cut weight, and then they would try to rehydrate, and they didn't know what the fuck they were doing back then.
00:20:33.000 And guys had dry brains.
00:20:35.000 I mean, literally.
00:20:36.000 And because of that, it made them more susceptible to cerebral hemorrhages and brain damage and all sorts of different things.
00:20:43.000 Very few heavyweight fighters suffered from brain damage in an actual fight.
00:20:48.000 It was usually years and years of repeated head trauma that got them, but not like one event like a Gerald McClellan event.
00:20:56.000 Sure.
00:20:57.000 And for folks who don't know what Gerald McClellan was, he was one of the great light heavyweights of...
00:21:03.000 Well, he was a light heavyweight and he was a super middleweight as well, wasn't he?
00:21:09.000 I believe so.
00:21:09.000 And he was one of the guys who was eventually going to fight Roy Jones Jr., fought Nigel Benn in an epic contest, had Benn really badly hurt.
00:21:19.000 They collided heads and he was all fucked up and he went back to his corner and he took a knee and wound up bowing out of the fight and then immediately went into a coma and had some horrible brain injuries because of that.
00:21:34.000 And that was a fight that changed a lot of people's ideas about weight cutting and about the dangers of head trauma because before that fight, Gerald McClellan was thought to be like an invincible destroyer.
00:21:47.000 I mean, people had seen him.
00:21:48.000 He was just knocking everybody out.
00:21:49.000 He was one of the Kronk stars.
00:21:52.000 Kronk boxing being Emanuel Stewart's team that produced Tommy Hearns.
00:21:56.000 You know, so many great, great fighters came out of that gym and they all were just assassins and he was one of the best.
00:22:02.000 Gerald McClellan was a fucking vicious, vicious killer.
00:22:05.000 And everybody had to watch that.
00:22:07.000 And, you know, and he's still alive to this day.
00:22:10.000 He's blind and he's all fucked up and sad shit.
00:22:14.000 Directly related to dehydration, right?
00:22:16.000 Dehydration.
00:22:16.000 I would say so.
00:22:18.000 I mean, it certainly contributed, right?
00:22:19.000 It assisted in the damage.
00:22:21.000 And that's something that I pound my soapbox when I talk to athletes, when I talk to anybody, is about health.
00:22:30.000 You've got to be healthy.
00:22:31.000 If you're not healthy, you can't perform.
00:22:32.000 You can't compete.
00:22:33.000 If your body is healthy, then you can do absolutely anything.
00:22:35.000 It'll do anything you ask of it if you maintain its health for a long period of time.
00:22:40.000 Not just fight week, not just start eating organic and green fight week when you start cutting weight or two, three weeks beforehand.
00:22:45.000 It has to be before training camp even starts.
00:22:47.000 You have to be eating a lot of food, the proper food at the right times consistently.
00:22:52.000 Get your body weight down to a, you know, your body mass down to a solid ratio.
00:22:59.000 Somewhere around that 10% range if you're a male mixed martial artist.
00:23:02.000 For females, anywhere between 18-20%, let's say.
00:23:04.000 What if guys dip below 10%, is that dangerous?
00:23:07.000 It's not, but that's really for competition time because with Lentz and all my male athletes, I try and keep them right around 10%.
00:23:13.000 The bigger guys, maybe we get a little closer to 12%.
00:23:16.000 The littler guys, the leaner guys, maybe between 8 and 10, but right around 10 is the sweet spot.
00:23:21.000 So we keep them around 10. That means they have weight to work off because they need that for the first few phases.
00:23:26.000 When I work with training camps and such, we break the training camp down into multiple three-week phases.
00:23:30.000 So we can actually go through the proper training protocols and then peak towards the very end.
00:23:35.000 So we can deal with the rigors of the training, the bumps, the bruises, the bangs, the slams.
00:23:40.000 We have the extra body fat to kind of insulate us so we can keep our joints and ligaments strong and pliable.
00:23:46.000 So extra body fat actually does that?
00:23:48.000 It does.
00:23:49.000 Absolutely.
00:23:49.000 It does.
00:23:49.000 It's just another layer of insulation when you're constantly grinding on guys and being wrenched against the wall and picked up and slammed 50 times because you're drilling whatever move.
00:23:58.000 You need that little bit of insulation.
00:24:00.000 The leaner you get, the drier your joints get, the more susceptible to injury you become.
00:24:04.000 Is that a scientific fact?
00:24:06.000 Like your joints get drier when you're leaner?
00:24:08.000 When you're leaner, absolutely.
00:24:09.000 Absolutely.
00:24:09.000 How does that work?
00:24:11.000 Is there fat in between your joints?
00:24:14.000 I don't think I can speak intelligently enough to break down the true science of it, but it's something that certainly remains.
00:24:22.000 I know when I was a power lifter, we would increase our body fat in order to increase the leverage points within our joints.
00:24:29.000 When I was a power lifter, I would intentionally increase my body fat to 15-18%.
00:24:35.000 And my numbers would absolutely go through the roof.
00:24:38.000 I would get less joint pain, less injuries.
00:24:40.000 So call it, you know, bro science if some people like to throw that term around there.
00:24:44.000 But you just feel better, feel stronger.
00:24:46.000 And the leaner you get, specifically when you start heading into the peaking phase, which is now mild dehydration as we get closer to fight week sets in, the entire body becomes drier.
00:24:55.000 So there's less elasticity within the muscles.
00:24:58.000 You're more susceptible to those...
00:25:01.000 Injuries, overuse injuries and such.
00:25:03.000 Bro science is a very tricky word, right?
00:25:06.000 Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:07.000 It's fucking...
00:25:08.000 It's very limiting.
00:25:10.000 Like, they hit you with that bro science and they gotcha.
00:25:13.000 As if it's an accusation, but I don't...
00:25:15.000 It's almost a...
00:25:16.000 It means experience.
00:25:18.000 Unless you're just throwing shit at the wall.
00:25:20.000 But there's a lot of throwing shit at the wall, too.
00:25:22.000 I think more than experience...
00:25:24.000 There's certain things that you would say maybe would be bro science that turned out to be legit.
00:25:31.000 Things along the lines like...
00:25:33.000 We want to talk about experience.
00:25:34.000 Things like...
00:25:35.000 Ancient training methods that have turned out to be the right way to do it.
00:25:38.000 Like all those old-school Rocky methods.
00:25:41.000 Remember when Rocky was training in Siberia and he was running through the snow and dragging logs?
00:25:45.000 A lot of times people would, if it wasn't for all the data that we have now, people would consider that kind of bro science.
00:25:51.000 Because that's like, you know, you don't fucking have to chop logs, you dummy.
00:25:55.000 Actually, it's a really good way to exercise.
00:25:58.000 Absolutely.
00:25:58.000 You know, but for the longest time, most people thought, no, you had to use a Nautilus machine and you had to fucking, you know, do everything.
00:26:05.000 You have to be Drago.
00:26:05.000 Drago with the fucking heart monitors and all that stuff.
00:26:08.000 The computer's hooked up to him.
00:26:09.000 But bro science is a nice way they can shut you down and make you look stupid.
00:26:13.000 I know!
00:26:13.000 And it fucking pisses me off because I get this shit all the time.
00:26:16.000 You know?
00:26:17.000 Because you're a bro.
00:26:18.000 I'm a bro.
00:26:19.000 Even a bro.
00:26:20.000 Like, you could call someone a bro and you limit their...
00:26:23.000 Anything that they have to say, anything they have to say about culture, anything they have to say about society, any opinions, any thoughts, any philosophies they might have, you're a bro.
00:26:34.000 You're a bro.
00:26:35.000 And that's, I will wear that proudly, but it's, we're evidence-based.
00:26:39.000 So we can say evidence-based bro science that, you know, we don't do anything unless it's been proven.
00:26:45.000 If we have a concept or idea, and I, you know, obviously in my office, I have a team that works with me.
00:26:50.000 So it's not just me in the black and gold shirt running around.
00:26:52.000 I have a team.
00:26:53.000 I have, you know, employees that have, um, degrees, masters in exercise physiology.
00:26:57.000 I've registered dietitians on staff.
00:26:59.000 So it's a complete team within the Dolce diet.
00:27:02.000 That puts this information out there and looks after the athletes.
00:27:05.000 So it's not just me running around and I stop watching my clipboard handing people bottles of water.
00:27:09.000 So it truly is a scientific process, but it's also based upon the experience.
00:27:14.000 And I've been doing this for 25 years, you know, since 93, professionally getting paid to do this.
00:27:21.000 And I have tremendous amounts of data.
00:27:23.000 I have almost all the data I've ever had collected on athletes and students and clients that I've worked with.
00:27:28.000 Anecdotal data as well.
00:27:30.000 Athletes telling you how good they feel after, what makes them feel bad.
00:27:34.000 Yep.
00:27:34.000 What did they eat today?
00:27:35.000 What were their bowel movements?
00:27:37.000 What was their training systems like?
00:27:38.000 When did they get sick?
00:27:39.000 What's their sense of humor like?
00:27:40.000 I mean, I speak with the wives.
00:27:41.000 I speak with the husbands.
00:27:42.000 I speak with the coaches.
00:27:43.000 I speak with the training partners.
00:27:44.000 I know everything about the athlete, the time they wake up, the time they have that bowel movement all the way through the day.
00:27:51.000 I know the intensity of the training.
00:27:52.000 I know the volume of the training.
00:27:53.000 I know the amount of rounds that they put in.
00:27:55.000 I know their caloric breakdown.
00:27:57.000 I know their lean mass ratios.
00:27:58.000 Oftentimes, I know what their blood work looks like.
00:28:01.000 We have a lot of data, and based upon this data is how we come up with our methodology and how we continue to evolve.
00:28:07.000 Because every time, I mean, it's like every week, you see me at the UFC quite often...
00:28:12.000 I'm not throwing shit at the wall.
00:28:14.000 I'm taking what I did on Friday, Saturday of that week, and on Sunday, I'm looking at the numbers and I'm retooling it because Monday I'm going to another fight week somewhere, and we're continuing to evolve this process as we move forward.
00:28:25.000 It's evidence-based scientific principles.
00:28:29.000 That's also battle-tested and proven viable with experience.
00:28:34.000 Because there's a lot of science out there that, you know, the guys in the suits and the lab coats, they're going to point to and say, that's the way to do it.
00:28:40.000 But they've never actually done it in the human element.
00:28:43.000 They've never actually seen it work.
00:28:45.000 They just sit in the classroom and they talk about it and they pontificate on it.
00:28:47.000 But it's never truly been proven in the real world.
00:28:51.000 And that's what we do also.
00:28:52.000 So we have the benefit of that.
00:28:53.000 Plus we have the benefit of all the scientific...
00:28:56.000 Evidence that's out there also.
00:28:58.000 And that's kind of what we roll into this.
00:29:00.000 Also, the stakes in MMA are so much higher than the stakes in any other sport when it comes to proven concepts in the real world, in quotes.
00:29:08.000 Because the real world in MMA, your fucking consciousness is on the line.
00:29:11.000 Your health is on the line.
00:29:13.000 Your body is going to get hit by...
00:29:15.000 Things that would ordinarily, like if you were in any sort of a real-life situation and someone kicked you in the head, that person would go to jail.
00:29:24.000 Absolutely.
00:29:24.000 Meanwhile, in this scenario, they're rewarded for being able to kick you in the head.
00:29:27.000 They get a bonus.
00:29:28.000 They get a fucking head kick bonus, yeah.
00:29:30.000 They get a KO of the night.
00:29:32.000 Well, it's performance of the night now.
00:29:34.000 Do you think, and this is a really touchy subject, but I think it's an important one to bring up.
00:29:39.000 Do you think that a lot of our ideas about what's physically possible when it comes to training and when it comes to fighting are distorted because of performance-enhancing drugs?
00:29:51.000 Absolutely.
00:29:52.000 Absolutely.
00:29:52.000 I think performance-enhancing drugs have set the bar in all sports in a culture, whether it's looking at the movies, looking at the magazine cover.
00:30:02.000 Track and field.
00:30:03.000 Track and field.
00:30:04.000 Everywhere.
00:30:05.000 Golf, NASCAR. Anywhere you look that there's money on the line, where you get rewarded...
00:30:09.000 For performance, there's some sort of ancillary good or commodity being used or purchased or consumed to improve your performance.
00:30:19.000 It's very evident in the world of mixed martial arts because these guys and girls are getting punched and kicked in the head and they're losing consciousness and they're breaking bones and getting limbs torn off.
00:30:29.000 So now you have these advanced superhumans Out there able to, you know, rip joints and punch brains and do all these other things.
00:30:37.000 So it does, I think the odds are much greater, you know, for the risk is certainly much greater for anybody who competes.
00:30:46.000 Yeah, that's where I took exception to a lot of people saying, like, who cares if someone juices, you know, I don't give a fuck, I'm gonna kick their ass anyway.
00:30:54.000 You know, like Chris Weidman said that about Vitor Belfort, and I appreciate the fact that he thinks that way, because he's a champion, and that's how a champion feels.
00:31:02.000 But, the reality is, there are punches that can be landed when you are on EPO and test and jacked to the fucking gills and whatever the fuck else you're doing, that you wouldn't have the energy to land in a normal scenario.
00:31:17.000 It's very rare that a guy can do like what TJ Dillashaw does and go balls to the walls for five fucking rounds.
00:31:24.000 TJ can do it as a natural athlete because he's got a fucking tireless work ethic, he's unbelievably dedicated and focused, and he's 145 pounds.
00:31:34.000 That's another big factor.
00:31:36.000 The difference between that and a guy like Overeem, who Alistair Overeem came into the UFC against Brock Lesnar, he was 265, shredded to the tits, looked like a fucking superhero out of a comic book, pissed hot, and has never been the same guy again.
00:31:52.000 And the reality is now he's being tested, he's shrunk, he lost body mass.
00:31:58.000 It just seems to affect a guy's chin as well.
00:32:01.000 The thing about taking performance-enhancing drugs is that it doesn't just seem to affect your cardio, but it seems to also affect your ability to take a shot.
00:32:11.000 We saw that in Mark Hunt vs.
00:32:13.000 Bigfoot.
00:32:14.000 Bigfoot, Silva, and Mark Hunt had one of the greatest heavyweight fights ever.
00:32:19.000 As far as like from a fan's perspective, like watching an entertaining fight, what a fucking war.
00:32:24.000 These guys went to war and Bigfoot absorbed everything that Mark Hunt hit him with.
00:32:29.000 One of the greatest knockout artists in the history of kickboxing and in MMA. Mark Hunt's awesome.
00:32:34.000 He's a monster.
00:32:35.000 Bigfoot absorbed it.
00:32:36.000 They tested him after the fight and He had apparently, he tested before the fight, thought that was it.
00:32:42.000 I don't have to worry about this anymore.
00:32:44.000 And they jacked him with a fucking giant hit.
00:32:46.000 Like they took a fucking big gulp full of tests and just shoved it right in his ass.
00:32:51.000 And he was just fucking, just completely juiced up when he fought.
00:32:56.000 His levels were through the roof after the fight.
00:32:59.000 And because of that, he was able to absorb.
00:33:02.000 I mean, I'm speculating as to why he was able to absorb those shots.
00:33:05.000 But I've got to think that it has something to do with it.
00:33:08.000 It definitely increases aggression.
00:33:09.000 It increases tenacity.
00:33:11.000 It brings out that killer instinct and maybe an athlete in that state, they can walk through punches more because they have more of that primal urge and instinct and those elevated hormones pumping through their body because that's really what testosterone does and God knows what else is out there.
00:33:27.000 I mean, I don't even think we're aware In this room of all the drugs and performance enhancers that are truly out there and these, you know, evil geniuses around the world are creating and sticking into the athletes and putting them back out there to see what the effect is.
00:33:41.000 No, and Bigfoot got popped on a simple urine test, which is quite fascinating because the UFC has taken a lot of flack about their stance on performance enhancing drugs and people's like, oh, it's just lip service.
00:33:55.000 UFC doesn't give a shit.
00:33:57.000 This is how much the UFC gives a shit.
00:33:59.000 They've tested all of their best athletes with blood tests in a way that has fucked up a lot of performances.
00:34:06.000 They have stepped in and it costs more than $40,000 every time they do this.
00:34:10.000 So every single athlete, they're doing this outside of the jurisdiction of the athletic commissions.
00:34:16.000 So the athletic commissions has their own specific protocol for how they test a fighter.
00:34:20.000 Then the UFC steps in and brings in Like, the highest, most stringent Olympic testing that they can find.
00:34:28.000 They bring in the best guys.
00:34:30.000 Not only that, they have a chain of command.
00:34:32.000 They have a chain of evidence, rather, of possession.
00:34:37.000 Where, like, say, if Mike Dolce comes to the gym and you test Jamie, you fucking carry that shit on a plane to wherever the lab is.
00:34:45.000 Yep.
00:34:45.000 Like, you have it in your possession.
00:34:47.000 It never leaves you.
00:34:47.000 When you take a shit, that fucking suitcase sits right in front of you.
00:34:50.000 Nobody can come into your hotel room, grab it.
00:34:53.000 No.
00:34:53.000 It goes directly from your hands to the lab.
00:34:57.000 Yep.
00:35:00.000 The reason being is because there's no shenanigans with these blood tests.
00:35:03.000 And because of that, a guy like Chael Sonnen got popped for EPO, elevated levels of test, human growth hormone.
00:35:10.000 He's been popped for a bunch of different things.
00:35:13.000 Actually, the elevated test was the urine thing.
00:35:15.000 But when they got him with the blood, they got him with some thing that they use for fertility.
00:35:23.000 He was on Clomid, which is what you take when they take you off Of human growth hormone or testosterone to try to restart your body's system.
00:35:35.000 Everyone's a fucking chemical factory.
00:35:36.000 It's crazy.
00:35:37.000 It's crazy.
00:35:38.000 It's not everyone.
00:35:39.000 Obviously, it's some.
00:35:40.000 It's some.
00:35:40.000 And I think it's a smaller percentage than a lot of the articles and interviews come out with.
00:35:46.000 You know, a lot of athletes say, oh, there's 90% of the guys.
00:35:49.000 Well, Vitor Belfort says everybody uses.
00:35:50.000 That's one of his famous statements after he got caught.
00:35:54.000 He's like, everyone's using in camp.
00:35:55.000 Everyone.
00:35:56.000 It depends on which camp he's talking about.
00:35:59.000 I know that there's a ton of great athletes out there.
00:36:02.000 Ronda Rousey is one of them, a lifelong drug-free athlete.
00:36:04.000 Johnny Hendricks is one of them.
00:36:05.000 Nick Lentz is one of them.
00:36:06.000 BJ Penn.
00:36:07.000 BJ Penn is one of them.
00:36:09.000 John Fitch.
00:36:10.000 John Fitch is one of them.
00:36:11.000 There's a huge list of top-tier athletes that are clean and lifelong clean, and we have no reason to suspect otherwise.
00:36:18.000 And they beat the piss out of a lot of the PED users.
00:36:22.000 But, you know, so the guys and girls that are using PEDs, maybe they wouldn't be a top 5, top 10, top 20 even.
00:36:27.000 Maybe they wouldn't even make it into the UFC, if not for some sort of enhancement.
00:36:31.000 I would love to go back to Pride, the Pride days.
00:36:34.000 I'm a huge Pride fan.
00:36:36.000 Don't get me wrong.
00:36:37.000 Some of my greatest moments as a fan, as an MMA fan, watching just the best fights of Pride.
00:36:45.000 Fedor versus Krokop, where he's just absorbing every shot Krokop hits him with and plowing forward and blasting him.
00:36:51.000 Fedor beat Krokop in a fucking kickboxing bout.
00:36:54.000 That's what a lot of people don't realize.
00:36:55.000 And Fedor was the first guy that ever made me want to be fat.
00:36:59.000 He made fat sexy, didn't he?
00:37:00.000 That bald bastard.
00:37:02.000 He's beating the fuck out of everybody with this floppy gut.
00:37:04.000 And I'm like, this motherfucker.
00:37:06.000 He was kicking everybody's ass, and he looks like he just stepped out of his fucking station wagon and waddled onto the beach to play volleyball with some friends.
00:37:16.000 He was much bigger, actually, early in his career.
00:37:19.000 And then as he got older...
00:37:21.000 He lost a lot of body mass, a lot of muscle mass.
00:37:24.000 But, man, I would love to see what those guys were actually doing.
00:37:27.000 And in Pride, I mean, that's almost a gentleman's agreement that you're agreeing to compete on drugs because that was in the contracts.
00:37:34.000 Yes.
00:37:35.000 You know, when we saw that pretty recently, and I had known some guys back in the day that had said that's in the contract.
00:37:40.000 I'm like, are you fucking kidding me?
00:37:41.000 Well, Ensign came on the podcast.
00:37:43.000 He read it off to us.
00:37:45.000 Insanity.
00:37:46.000 But in that case, if you're going to sign that contract and then you're loaded up to the gills, I'm not going to sit here and judge morally because you're agreeing to those rules.
00:37:55.000 It's like kicks to the face on the ground if you're going to agree to it.
00:37:58.000 But in the UFC here where there's unified rules, it's a whole other ballgame.
00:38:03.000 Well, when Jason Chambers was training at 10th Planet, he went over.
00:38:07.000 He was fighting in Japan.
00:38:08.000 I won't even say the organization.
00:38:09.000 But they wanted him to fight at 185. And Jason's like, I walk around at like 170. Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
00:38:16.000 Like, I want to fight 155. Like, no, no, no, no, no.
00:38:19.000 You're going to get on steroids.
00:38:21.000 Much larger.
00:38:22.000 Oh, wow.
00:38:23.000 They wanted him to get on roids.
00:38:25.000 They literally told him to get on roids.
00:38:27.000 And is that legal over there?
00:38:29.000 I mean, is that just culturally, it's not an issue?
00:38:31.000 I don't think they give a fuck about that.
00:38:33.000 They just looked at him, you know, Jason's a handsome bastard, and they said, like, this fucking beautiful bastard, we need some muscles on this motherfucker to sell.
00:38:40.000 There you go.
00:38:40.000 Sell, sell, sell.
00:38:41.000 Sell, sell, sell.
00:38:41.000 You know, you can't have a guy looking like Nick Diaz, kicking everybody's ass with a normal athlete-looking body.
00:38:46.000 You want a Kevin Randleman-looking fucking Jason Chambers with Kevin Randleman's muscles.
00:38:51.000 Jesus Christ, how much can we sell that?
00:38:53.000 Put that guy on a fucking cover, put a banana where his dick is, stuff it in his underwear.
00:38:59.000 Super athlete!
00:39:01.000 Super!
00:39:02.000 Yeah, but they literally told him, I mean, from his voice to my ears, they told him, and we were friends.
00:39:08.000 We still are friends.
00:39:09.000 They told him to do steroids.
00:39:12.000 Holy shit.
00:39:12.000 So they do.
00:39:13.000 I mean, and there was always speculation, like we would look at Vanderlei and we'd go, how?
00:39:18.000 How are you built like that?
00:39:21.000 How can a guy be built like that and go to war for 10 minutes?
00:39:24.000 A 10 minute round and just never get tired?
00:39:27.000 How is that possible?
00:39:28.000 It's not, right?
00:39:30.000 It's very rare.
00:39:32.000 Those are the outliers that are able to look like that and compete like that.
00:39:35.000 I've spent some time with Brian Stan and he was telling a story about how when he went to Japan or China and fought Vanderlei.
00:39:42.000 He's like, I'm flying on a flight.
00:39:43.000 I'm sucked out.
00:39:44.000 I'm dehydrated.
00:39:45.000 I'm cutting weight.
00:39:46.000 I show up and I see Vanderlei.
00:39:48.000 And he is just fucking jacked and veiny and like smiling and just spitting piss and vinegar.
00:39:55.000 And he's like, that's when I knew.
00:39:56.000 I knew he was fucking gassed up.
00:39:59.000 And then you go out there and the fight goes how it is.
00:40:01.000 They got fight at performance at night, fight at night, whatever.
00:40:04.000 And Vanderlei had a very good chin on that night because Stan hit him with big shots and back and forth it went.
00:40:10.000 And unfortunately Stan was the guy to fall down first.
00:40:13.000 Yeah, it is that thing.
00:40:14.000 Your ability to absorb punishment actually changes depending upon what you're on.
00:40:20.000 It seems to be.
00:40:21.000 It seems to be.
00:40:22.000 I mean, we're talking, we're kind of speculating, obviously, we don't have the evidence in front of us.
00:40:26.000 Bro science.
00:40:26.000 Yeah, we're bro science-ing the shit out of this.
00:40:30.000 Well, Stan recently accused Kung Lee of being on performance-enhancing drugs after he fought Michael Bisping.
00:40:37.000 Yeah, and that's...
00:40:39.000 No evidence.
00:40:39.000 No evidence other than a photo, but that photo was pretty fucking interesting.
00:40:45.000 Well, it's interesting because Kung Lee is 40, but in Kung's defense, he said that he had had a series of aggravating injuries, and this was the first camp where he had had surgeries, he had fixed up all those injuries, and he went on a pretty rigorous strength and conditioning regime.
00:41:03.000 Sure.
00:41:03.000 For that training camp.
00:41:05.000 Like, you can't definitely say that he was on something.
00:41:07.000 And he didn't piss hot.
00:41:09.000 And that's it.
00:41:09.000 So, I mean, I don't know.
00:41:11.000 And it's a tough call because we're just kind of being haters.
00:41:15.000 Like, oh, look at that dude.
00:41:16.000 He looks fucking great at 40. And like...
00:41:18.000 Well, I don't look that good, so he must be on Juice.
00:41:21.000 And there's that human element to it.
00:41:22.000 But if he doesn't piss hot, I mean, how can we accuse and blame him of doing something wrong when he didn't?
00:41:29.000 And it didn't affect his performance in a positive manner anyway, because Bisping went out there and...
00:41:34.000 Beat his ass.
00:41:35.000 Beat his ass, right?
00:41:36.000 Goddamn Bisping looked good in that fight.
00:41:38.000 That was the best version of Bisping we've ever seen.
00:41:40.000 Bisping's a tenacious motherfucker.
00:41:42.000 He's a mean motherfucker.
00:41:43.000 He's just tenacious as shit, man.
00:41:45.000 He's just still in the mix.
00:41:47.000 Still, you know, still believing that one day he's going to be the champion.
00:41:52.000 Absolutely.
00:41:52.000 He's just going to keep fucking chipping away.
00:41:54.000 He gets beat.
00:41:55.000 He comes back.
00:41:56.000 You know, in his defense, everyone that's beaten him has essentially been popped for steroids.
00:42:03.000 Yeah.
00:42:04.000 Dan Henderson, who knocked him out, wasn't popped for steroids, but he was on a legal version of testosterone replacement therapy before they outlawed that stuff, which I think is a good thing to outlaw.
00:42:13.000 And this is coming from a person who takes testosterone.
00:42:17.000 I'm 47 years old.
00:42:18.000 I take testosterone every week.
00:42:20.000 I used to take a cream.
00:42:21.000 Now I take a shot.
00:42:22.000 It seems to last longer.
00:42:23.000 It seems to work better.
00:42:24.000 But why do I do it?
00:42:26.000 First of all, because I'm not competing against anybody, and it makes me feel better.
00:42:30.000 My body works better when I take it.
00:42:33.000 That's what testosterone replacement is all about.
00:42:36.000 But when it comes to professional athletes doing it, man, it's very tricky.
00:42:41.000 Because on one side, an athlete can take it and it can make them feel better and they can perform better when their career would be over.
00:42:51.000 Like you take a guy like a Roger Clemens.
00:42:53.000 And I don't know whether or not Roger Clemens did anything, but most people believe he did.
00:42:56.000 And he's a baseball player, and then deep into his 40s, all of a sudden the motherfuckers, he's still throwing 95 mile an hour fastballs, and he looks fantastic, and he's built like a brick shithouse.
00:43:08.000 What's going on there?
00:43:09.000 Well, most likely he got on hormone replacement.
00:43:12.000 So the idea being that when you're getting older, you're getting wiser, and you have accumulated all this experience and all this knowledge, but...
00:43:23.000 Your body does not perform the way it did when you were younger.
00:43:26.000 It just doesn't.
00:43:27.000 The hormones, they go away.
00:43:29.000 Your body's preparing for death.
00:43:30.000 Essentially, that's what's going on.
00:43:32.000 But it isn't bullshit because it's kind of the way the world works.
00:43:35.000 Sure.
00:43:36.000 You know, I mean, we're only here for a short amount of time.
00:43:39.000 Otherwise, fucking Aristotle would be sitting right there.
00:43:41.000 You know, he'd still be around.
00:43:43.000 Love to hear him on this show.
00:43:44.000 He'd probably be a boring bastard.
00:43:46.000 I don't understand his language either.
00:43:47.000 Yeah, no, I'd love to hear him.
00:43:49.000 Just kidding.
00:43:49.000 But, you know what I'm saying?
00:43:50.000 It's like everyone has their time.
00:43:52.000 And this is obviously hypocritical coming from me because I just admitted that I did take testosterone.
00:43:56.000 But when you're a fighter, there's the guys that they've gone through all this experience, their bodies started to fade off, and then they get on it, and then boom, all of a sudden, they're world beaters.
00:44:09.000 The best example is Vitor.
00:44:11.000 Vitor Belfort, I maintain that TRT Vitor was one of the most spectacular fighters in the history of fighting.
00:44:18.000 His knockout of Luke Rockhold, his knockout of Bisping, his knockout of Dan Henderson, he was a fucking destroyer when he was on test.
00:44:29.000 He would show up with muscles on his fucking eyebrows, I mean, literally.
00:44:34.000 He had muscles on his gums.
00:44:36.000 His whole body looked like a muscle.
00:44:38.000 It was insane.
00:44:38.000 And he was so aggressive and so confident.
00:44:43.000 It was a completely different Vitor than the Vitor that fought like Sakuraba when he fought in Pride, which was a decade earlier.
00:44:50.000 I mean, it's crazy to see something like that happen.
00:44:54.000 And on one hand, I love it.
00:44:56.000 On one hand, I want to see Vitor fight like that.
00:44:58.000 I want to see a destroyer.
00:44:59.000 I'm a guy who likes watching entertaining fights.
00:45:02.000 I like watching spectacular performances.
00:45:04.000 But on another hand, I want to see someone fighting someone Where it's just will and determination and discipline and focus and you work towards something and then you achieve it and you do it just by hard work.
00:45:22.000 Sure.
00:45:22.000 I don't want it to be a goddamn pharmacy competition.
00:45:26.000 Yeah.
00:45:26.000 You know?
00:45:27.000 And that's high-level sports.
00:45:29.000 It is quite that.
00:45:30.000 And kind of a moral conversation.
00:45:32.000 Let's skew this a little bit.
00:45:34.000 So you look at, like, stem cell research.
00:45:38.000 Now, is that a performance enhancer?
00:45:39.000 Yeah.
00:45:40.000 Yeah, it's going to be.
00:45:42.000 Reattaching an ACL from somebody else, is that a performance enhancer?
00:45:46.000 Sure, it can be, right?
00:45:47.000 I mean, well, it certainly can fix a bad body, and that will enhance the performance of that person.
00:45:53.000 It can be.
00:45:54.000 It's an interesting, and I've heard Vitor say this before.
00:45:57.000 And I'm not defending.
00:45:59.000 Did he say that?
00:45:59.000 Yeah.
00:46:00.000 Surgeries, performance enhancing?
00:46:02.000 Is that what he's saying?
00:46:02.000 I think he was making a reference to Weidman, who had gone over to Germany, I believe, and had some sort of...
00:46:08.000 Regenachine?
00:46:09.000 I don't know the exact...
00:46:10.000 Well, I've had that.
00:46:11.000 He's wrong.
00:46:12.000 That doesn't enhance your performance.
00:46:14.000 It just makes your inflammation go down.
00:46:16.000 Okay.
00:46:16.000 I mean, Weidman has mangled knees.
00:46:19.000 I mean, he's had arthritis in his knees so bad that he can't even get his foot to touch his butt.
00:46:23.000 Like, lift his heel up like this, like I'm doing sitting right here.
00:46:26.000 He can't do that.
00:46:28.000 He couldn't get his heel to touch his ass.
00:46:29.000 His knees are so arthritic, and yet he still beat Anderson Silva twice.
00:46:33.000 Like that.
00:46:34.000 With those knees?
00:46:35.000 With those knees.
00:46:35.000 Yeah, because he's a fucking monster.
00:46:37.000 Yeah, he's a beast.
00:46:37.000 He's a monster.
00:46:39.000 He's not even 30. Yeah.
00:46:40.000 He's a monster.
00:46:42.000 But what he did was not...
00:46:44.000 It's not going to make him...
00:46:45.000 It'll make his knees work better, but there'll be normal knees.
00:46:49.000 It's not like he's going to get to a point where he has...
00:46:53.000 When you saw Vitor's muscles, that shit wasn't normal, son.
00:46:57.000 Yeah.
00:46:57.000 That was above average.
00:46:58.000 Yeah, like an average 16-year-old kid who works out once or twice a week has better knees than the middleweight champion of the world.
00:47:06.000 That's the point.
00:47:07.000 It's the actual pliability of his joints itself.
00:47:09.000 I mean, does that increase a mechanical advantage when the knees work better?
00:47:13.000 Yeah, but it only makes it like a normal person.
00:47:15.000 It's not like what you can get if you're tested up to the gills.
00:47:20.000 So I don't see how you can make that comparison ethically.
00:47:23.000 And where's the line on medical intervention?
00:47:26.000 Mm-hmm.
00:47:27.000 To performance enhancement or supplementation.
00:47:30.000 Supplementation's a good one.
00:47:31.000 Because that's...
00:47:32.000 Yeah.
00:47:33.000 Creatine.
00:47:33.000 Well, I remember BJ... It's something that simple.
00:47:35.000 BJ was shitting on...
00:47:37.000 And I'm a huge BJ Penn fan.
00:47:39.000 Will be to the day I die.
00:47:40.000 But BJ was shitting all over GSP. You know, hey, you're taking a test.
00:47:44.000 You know, you're taking GH. Tell the truth.
00:47:46.000 What's going on?
00:47:47.000 And meanwhile, you watch BJ working out.
00:47:49.000 And he had a fucking...
00:47:50.000 He had a counter filled with these different supplements.
00:47:54.000 Yeah.
00:47:54.000 There's a bunch of shit that they would give him after every meal.
00:47:58.000 It was all legal.
00:47:59.000 It was all glutamine and things along those lines and fish oil and all these different various supplements.
00:48:06.000 But those various supplements, that's not food.
00:48:10.000 That's food that has been broken down and they've isolated very specific components that they've shown to enhance performance.
00:48:16.000 So you're taking performance-enhancing supplements when you're taking anything.
00:48:21.000 The reason why you take multi-minerals and multi-vitamins is you want to enhance the performance of your body, period.
00:48:28.000 That is what's going on.
00:48:29.000 It's just going on at an edge level, as opposed to a jump.
00:48:35.000 When you're tested up, Vitor tested.
00:48:39.000 They caught him before.
00:48:40.000 This is what made them cancel testosterone replacement in Nevada.
00:48:45.000 I mean, they had already had issues with it, but they started testing guys off, like, just randomly.
00:48:51.000 Like, come here.
00:48:52.000 Like, pee in that cup.
00:48:53.000 That's how they got Overeem.
00:48:55.000 Vitor tested, an average person, it's like an average male, 300 to like 800 is like a high level.
00:49:02.000 Vitor was 1,475.
00:49:04.000 That's insane.
00:49:05.000 It doesn't exist in nature.
00:49:07.000 It just doesn't exist in nature.
00:49:08.000 And that was one of the reasons why they were like, okay.
00:49:11.000 And this is not idle speculation coming from me, by the way.
00:49:14.000 This is me talking to people that are in the know, people that were actually there.
00:49:18.000 The whole conversation that went down, I was...
00:49:20.000 Privy to a lot of it.
00:49:22.000 And it was very tricky because you have to find out what's ethical.
00:49:26.000 I mean, they allowed it in the first place because doctors were saying, my client has low testosterone and he has an issue, gonadism or whatever, hypergonadism.
00:49:36.000 Whatever the issue is.
00:49:37.000 My client has low testosterone.
00:49:39.000 I, as a doctor, believe that he has a medical issue that needs to be addressed.
00:49:43.000 We're going to supplement his testosterone.
00:49:44.000 So the athletic commissions allowed this, but they didn't totally understand what they were allowing.
00:49:50.000 Because they didn't know that you could take testosterone.
00:49:53.000 And if you took testosterone and then got off testosterone, your natural levels crash.
00:49:58.000 So then you show up at the doctor and you say, Hey man, test me.
00:50:01.000 I feel pretty weak.
00:50:02.000 And the doctor says, You have low testosterone.
00:50:04.000 I'm going to write you a prescription for testosterone.
00:50:06.000 Then you bring that to the Athletic Commission.
00:50:07.000 My doctors allowed me to take testosterone.
00:50:10.000 Here's my blood work.
00:50:11.000 And they go, all right, it seems pretty good.
00:50:13.000 Go ahead, take it.
00:50:14.000 I mean, that was going on.
00:50:16.000 That's what happened with Nate Marquardt.
00:50:18.000 That's what happened with a lot of people.
00:50:20.000 That was the issue with when Nate Marquardt was pulled out of his fight with Rick Story at the very last minute is because the Pennsylvania Athletic Commission tested him and he was jacked through the roof.
00:50:31.000 And they were like, what were you doing is dangerous?
00:50:34.000 What was his number?
00:50:35.000 Do you remember?
00:50:36.000 I don't remember, so I won't say it.
00:50:37.000 But it was Vitor-esque.
00:50:39.000 It was astronomical.
00:50:40.000 It was very high.
00:50:41.000 It was not a number that exists in nature.
00:50:43.000 And that's the issue.
00:50:44.000 Same as Mark Hunt.
00:50:47.000 It was not a number that exists in nature.
00:50:48.000 These guys were taking hyper levels of testosterone.
00:50:52.000 When they give you testosterone...
00:50:55.000 Unless you are going to the doctor, and that doctor is the only one who administers testosterone, and they do it right in front of you, you can put as much in as you want.
00:51:04.000 Sure.
00:51:05.000 You know, if Mike Dolce gets a prescription for testosterone, and you go to your doctor, your doctor's going to give you a fucking month's supply, and you could say, I want to put the whole month in right now.
00:51:14.000 Let's see what's up!
00:51:15.000 Boom!
00:51:15.000 Look out!
00:51:16.000 And then you're just fucking running through walls, like the thing from the Fantastic Four, just...
00:51:23.000 It's very weird.
00:51:26.000 If you're on anything else, if you're on any other kind of medication, you take two pills in the morning, you take two pills at night, and here's your pills.
00:51:36.000 Take those pills.
00:51:38.000 But you could just decide to throw the whole bottle down your throat if you're fucking nuts.
00:51:42.000 The only way you could prevent that with testosterone is by restricting access and making that access only through that medical provider that does it right there.
00:51:53.000 Everyone knows.
00:51:55.000 And so they decided to just stop the testosterone replacement.
00:51:58.000 There was no way they could regulate it.
00:51:59.000 There was too many ethical concerns.
00:52:01.000 There was too many concerns with...
00:52:03.000 But the thing is, they started it, and they let these people get on it, and then they got them off of it.
00:52:09.000 And when you get people off of it, their whole endocrine system just crashes.
00:52:14.000 And there was no transition period?
00:52:16.000 None.
00:52:16.000 You need a long transition period.
00:52:18.000 This Vitor-Weidman fight is going to be spectacularly interesting from that perspective.
00:52:25.000 Sure.
00:52:27.000 Vitor's previous performances have been some of the best performances I've ever seen in all my years of watching MMA. He just looked fantastic.
00:52:35.000 And if there was no concern whatsoever, if there was no issue with testosterone, if he wasn't on anything, he was just fucking training like a wild man and putting in, you know, if he was younger and this was all going on, if he didn't have like a noticeable I think?
00:53:09.000 Maybe you should look it up, Jamie.
00:53:10.000 Find out what Chris Weidman over Vitor Belfort is.
00:53:12.000 If you look at how Vitor destroyed Dan Henderson, you look at how he destroyed Luke Rockhold, you look at how he destroyed Bisping, you would say, how could anybody be a favorite over this guy?
00:53:25.000 And the reason is, is because of the testosterone.
00:53:28.000 Sure.
00:53:28.000 It's 100%.
00:53:29.000 No one wants to bring it up.
00:53:30.000 I mean, the UFC's probably upset that I'm talking about it right now.
00:53:33.000 You know, because they don't like bringing it up.
00:53:35.000 Like when I do those countdown shows, we don't talk about testosterone.
00:53:37.000 Sure.
00:53:37.000 I would like to.
00:53:38.000 I would like to talk about it.
00:53:40.000 I would like to bring in experts.
00:53:41.000 I would like to talk to a guy like you.
00:53:43.000 I'd like to talk to an endocrinologist.
00:53:45.000 I'd like to say, what is the recovery process?
00:53:49.000 How can a man bring his natural levels back up to where Vitor was?
00:53:54.000 You know, is it possible?
00:53:56.000 That's gonna be difficult.
00:53:57.000 Not knowing what his blood work or how bad off he was, you know, going into the TRT program, he's gonna come out worse off.
00:54:04.000 He said he was at 180. That was what he said, which is really low.
00:54:09.000 And I would believe that knowing a lot of the Brazilians, a lot of those kids get on in their early teens because it's a social medicine over there.
00:54:16.000 You walk into a gym and that's what the coach hands them.
00:54:18.000 And I've heard this story from dozens of Brazilians and it's nothing against the culture.
00:54:23.000 It's just something that's normal.
00:54:25.000 Well, it's legal there.
00:54:26.000 It's legal.
00:54:26.000 It's like walking into a GNC and getting some protein powder.
00:54:28.000 Yeah.
00:54:29.000 It's not like it is over here.
00:54:30.000 When it's over here, you've got to get your, you know, if you're going to go to a gym and become a bodybuilder and you want to get testosterone or steroids, you're going to have to do dealings with some shady people.
00:54:41.000 Yeah.
00:54:41.000 In Brazil, you go to the pharmacy.
00:54:42.000 You go in and you get it done properly, but unfortunately...
00:54:46.000 You open up four to one, that's almost five to one now.
00:54:48.000 5-1.
00:54:49.000 That's big.
00:54:50.000 Over Vitor.
00:54:50.000 The Vitor that destroyed Dan Henderson in the first round.
00:54:53.000 The Vitor that wheel-kicked Luke Rockhold into oblivion.
00:54:56.000 And someone's a 5-1 favorite over him.
00:54:58.000 That's incredible.
00:54:58.000 And that's because of that.
00:55:00.000 Yeah, it's amazing.
00:55:02.000 Everyone remembers Vitor when he fought Randy, when he was 240 pounds and looked like a lion.
00:55:07.000 Absolutely.
00:55:08.000 And those are the days, I think, that have caught up with him and caused the issue.
00:55:12.000 Well, that was back when he was training with his friend Curtis, who was his bodybuilder friend, who's dead now.
00:55:18.000 Guy died from steroids.
00:55:20.000 Oh, that's right.
00:55:21.000 I remember that.
00:55:22.000 We used to call him garden hoses.
00:55:24.000 Because we would work out with this guy, he would be at the gym, and he had garden hoses for veins.
00:55:29.000 I mean, he would stand there like this, and they were just garden hoses all over his body.
00:55:33.000 He was so big.
00:55:34.000 He was so big you couldn't believe that he was a human being.
00:55:37.000 It's...
00:55:38.000 Guys like that from the 90s era bodybuilding days, they're all fucking dying now.
00:55:43.000 Yeah.
00:55:43.000 I've been seeing that.
00:55:44.000 Mike Matarazzo just died.
00:55:45.000 Just died, yeah.
00:55:46.000 Crazy.
00:55:47.000 Nassar, that big guy.
00:55:49.000 Nassar Elson body.
00:55:50.000 He's dead.
00:55:50.000 He died.
00:55:51.000 Those guys were just redlining the body.
00:55:55.000 Redlining the capabilities.
00:55:57.000 So when the sports, so we think of bodybuilding, like the golden era is like...
00:56:03.000 We're good to go.
00:56:17.000 Five-six.
00:56:18.000 Five-six.
00:56:19.000 Yeah.
00:56:19.000 Fucking insanely crazy, ripped 3% body fat, garden hoses running everywhere.
00:56:25.000 And it wasn't as much from what I understand.
00:56:28.000 I've been working on a mass building, strength building book now, so I've been researching more of the bodybuilding side.
00:56:33.000 And I'm coming across all this information where they're talking now about insulin and IGF-1 and growth hormone.
00:56:40.000 When those things came into play in those early 90s, that's when the bodies changed.
00:56:45.000 But now you see what's happening.
00:56:47.000 15, 20 years later, these guys in their 40s and 50s are dropping dead of terrible, terrible conditions.
00:56:55.000 Almost directly related to that, where you see guys like Arnold and Franco, you know, still walking around, knocking on the door of 70s.
00:57:01.000 Arnold's back on the spike.
00:57:02.000 You've seen those muscles?
00:57:03.000 He's pretty fucking big now.
00:57:05.000 Get that Hollywood money, man.
00:57:06.000 Come on now, right?
00:57:07.000 Maria took everything.
00:57:09.000 I have to get bigger.
00:57:11.000 There you go.
00:57:12.000 Yeah, but he is...
00:57:15.000 But, you know, Dorian, in all fairness, is fine, too.
00:57:18.000 Right now.
00:57:19.000 Yeah, right now.
00:57:20.000 And that's the thing.
00:57:21.000 He seems like a smarter guy, just knowing a little bit.
00:57:24.000 Actually, when we were in Birmingham, I swung by Temple Jim.
00:57:26.000 I didn't get a chance to meet him.
00:57:27.000 It was historic.
00:57:28.000 Yeah, I want to meet that guy.
00:57:30.000 Fucking crazy, but we'll see.
00:57:32.000 And hopefully, you don't want to see anything bad happen to anybody, but those guys are on death watch to a degree.
00:57:37.000 What fails...
00:57:40.000 When they do that?
00:57:41.000 What fails in their body?
00:57:43.000 Yeah, what fails?
00:57:44.000 All these guys, it seems to be heart-related.
00:57:46.000 Their hearts are just exploding on them.
00:57:48.000 They're enlarged, for starters, and then they're just some sort of shutdown, breakdown, and they're just exploding, for lack of a more technical term.
00:57:56.000 But it's almost all cardiac-related.
00:57:58.000 Like, that's what Matarazzo, he was waiting for a heart transplant.
00:58:00.000 Oh my God.
00:58:00.000 He wasn't even 50 years old yet.
00:58:02.000 Wow.
00:58:03.000 You know?
00:58:03.000 He's a Boston guy, right?
00:58:05.000 Yeah.
00:58:06.000 Yeah.
00:58:06.000 Yeah.
00:58:06.000 I remember when I was just a kid at that time, and I was watching these guys like, you know, that's what I wanted to be.
00:58:13.000 And I was like, well, maybe a couple of them.
00:58:15.000 So naive.
00:58:16.000 Take steroids.
00:58:17.000 But like, no, he's using muscle tech, and he's using EAS creatine.
00:58:21.000 And that's, I believe, that never Flex Wheeler, and Flex had a fucking kidney transplant.
00:58:25.000 Yeah.
00:58:25.000 He did?
00:58:26.000 Yes.
00:58:27.000 Don't quote me on the kidney transplant, but he had kidney failure, and that's what took him out of bodybuilding at his absolute prime.
00:58:32.000 I'm 90% sure it was a transplant.
00:58:34.000 But isn't that the kidney thing due to cutting weight?
00:58:37.000 They would dehydrate the shit out of themselves, right?
00:58:39.000 Massive prescription diuretics.
00:58:41.000 So cutting weight is one thing, using a very powerful pharmaceutical diuretic.
00:58:47.000 That's like water and fucking, you know, rubbing alcohol.
00:58:53.000 As far as, you know, putting that into your body.
00:58:56.000 And that's what, like, Mohammed Benaziza and I think Andres Muncer, some of these famous older bodybuilders, were just huge into those prescription diuretics.
00:59:05.000 And they just fucking blow their body up from the inside out.
00:59:08.000 Look amazing on the outside.
00:59:09.000 And then guys like Paul DeLette, you know, I'm kind of really, you know, going back 20 years of my remembrances of bodybuilding.
00:59:15.000 I remember these guys collapsing And just thinking like, oh, you know, they look like such specimens.
00:59:21.000 Why are they so unhealthy?
00:59:22.000 And that's really, I think, what turned me into what I am today.
00:59:25.000 I saw that, you know, and take my story back even farther.
00:59:28.000 I touched on it, you know, years ago, where I saw my father collapse, massive stroke.
00:59:33.000 I was an eight-year-old kid, and I was like, He was really in shape.
00:59:36.000 He was a thoroughbred horse trainer.
00:59:38.000 He just fucking had a massive stroke.
00:59:40.000 And I was like, how the fuck?
00:59:41.000 Like, spun.
00:59:42.000 How is this even possible?
00:59:43.000 And then all the doctor's visits and all this shit for years.
00:59:46.000 Well, he was burning his candle at both ends.
00:59:48.000 Fucking drinking coffee in the morning, not eating until late at night.
00:59:51.000 Working like 16, 20-hour days.
00:59:53.000 Really hard, hard-working days.
00:59:55.000 Sitting back, kicking some beers and whatnot.
00:59:57.000 Burnt his body out from the inside.
00:59:58.000 Family history of heart disease.
01:00:00.000 Hypertension.
01:00:01.000 Didn't take care of himself.
01:00:02.000 Boom.
01:00:03.000 Fast forward, I see this bodybuilding shit, and it really fascinated me.
01:00:07.000 I was fascinated as a boy all the way up through.
01:00:09.000 I was fascinated.
01:00:10.000 And as I continued, and I was a 280-pound powerlifter at some point.
01:00:13.000 Brought my body weight all the way up in my mid-20s, 280 pounds.
01:00:16.000 And one day I go to the doctor for a basic health test, wellness test.
01:00:23.000 High cholesterol, high blood pressure, hypertension, sleep apnea.
01:00:27.000 Get hooked up to a halter monitor.
01:00:29.000 Had heart palpitations.
01:00:30.000 Doctor's like...
01:00:31.000 What are you doing?
01:00:32.000 I'm like, I don't fucking know.
01:00:34.000 I'm trying to be big.
01:00:34.000 I'm trying to be Arnold Schwarzenegger over here.
01:00:36.000 And she's like, yeah, this has got to change.
01:00:38.000 And that's when my mind spun.
01:00:39.000 I just saw it for what it is.
01:00:40.000 I pictured my father.
01:00:41.000 I was like, I've got to fucking change this immediately.
01:00:44.000 And that's when I was performance science-based.
01:00:46.000 Lots of supplements and lots of micronutrients and protein ratios and all that bullshit, that bodybuilding bullshit.
01:00:53.000 And then spun it.
01:00:53.000 And that's when I became this fucking organic, like, pseudo-hippie health longevity dude.
01:00:58.000 And when I focused on that, I lost 110 pounds, you know, through my own personal experience.
01:01:03.000 But I was always working with athletes.
01:01:05.000 You know, like, since I was 17 years old, first of all, my training business, I was always working with athletes.
01:01:10.000 And I took that performance side, and I went to the longevity side.
01:01:13.000 And what I saw is once we all started focusing on longevity protocols as opposed to performance protocols, everybody's performance went through the roof.
01:01:22.000 So when you say longevity protocols, what do you mean specifically?
01:01:26.000 I mean real food, getting rid of all the supplements, getting rid of all the pseudoscience, getting back to what's most natural.
01:01:32.000 I use the term earth-grown nutrients because I used to say Whole Foods and people thought that meant go shopping at the supermarket.
01:01:37.000 No.
01:01:38.000 Eating food from the planet.
01:01:39.000 That was like really the first step for me.
01:01:42.000 And I don't care as much about micronutrient ratios and weighing because I used to weigh my food and I used to sit there and I would spend a half hour every night and program all my meals and come up with all these different training cycles.
01:01:52.000 And I was that dude, that insane dude about making these performance enhancements.
01:01:57.000 This is fucking ridiculous.
01:01:59.000 You just need to focus on eating real food, extremely nutrient-dense foods from the planet as fresh as possible, as live as possible.
01:02:06.000 And all the science that's out there shows that that's the healthier way.
01:02:09.000 And all these different cultures that eat like that tend to be much healthier, perform at a higher level for a much longer period of time, longer lifespan, and a high utility.
01:02:20.000 And that's really the difference.
01:02:21.000 Not only do they live longer, they have a very high utility while they're Living longer.
01:02:26.000 50, 60, 80, 90, 100 plus years old where they're still able to go out, fish, swim, do all these different things.
01:02:33.000 That's what really turned my mind and this is back 15, probably 15 years ago now.
01:02:40.000 And then I started implementing that with my athletes, whether it's the powerlifters, the wrestlers, or the grapplers.
01:02:44.000 And then early 2000s, it was with the NHB athletes before MMA. That's kind of how I got the start into the MMA world was through Team Henzo Gracie on the East Coast.
01:02:53.000 Guys like Kurt Pellegrino and Dante Rivera, when they were fighting for that ring of combat, NHB titles and whatnot, focused on those guys.
01:03:01.000 And it was all real foods.
01:03:03.000 Everyone was like, what do you mean?
01:03:05.000 I don't have to take my cytosport and my protein powder and pop all these fucking pills?
01:03:09.000 I was like, no.
01:03:10.000 It was almost like a leap of faith for a while for a lot of athletes to buy into, you mean I have to eat salads and fruit and make a smoothie?
01:03:21.000 Now that we talk about it and the culture is a little more advanced, I think the science is out there and it's been proven for a decade plus.
01:03:28.000 That people realize, well, that's the better way to go now.
01:03:30.000 But going back, you know, 10, 15 years ago, that was like, everybody was living out of fucking jugs.
01:03:35.000 You know, protein powders and GNCs and all that shit.
01:03:37.000 That was the big rage in the late 90s all the way into the early 2000s and such.
01:03:41.000 So, spun that, switched it, focused on the real foods, and that's what we've been doing with the athletes since.
01:03:47.000 So, going back to the longevity, when I work with an athlete, like a Tiago Alves or a Ronda Rousey or whoever else, My goal is not for them to win a world title.
01:03:55.000 My goal is not about their weigh-ins.
01:03:56.000 My goal is not about really anything sport-related within the next five years.
01:04:00.000 My goal is for them to be 120 years old.
01:04:03.000 Healthy, fresh, vibrant.
01:04:04.000 Showing their great, great grandkids photos of back when they won the UFC world title and all these great times that they have.
01:04:10.000 You think that's possible?
01:04:11.000 120 years old?
01:04:12.000 Has that ever been done?
01:04:14.000 It's possible now.
01:04:16.000 If we focus on it now, because we're talking, that's 80 years from now, and with the medical advancements that are happening, with the way science is continuing to evolve, it's possible if we don't fuck it up early.
01:04:28.000 And this is where I talk to the athletes about the weight cutting starts 52 weeks beforehand.
01:04:32.000 If we don't fuck everything up now, science is going to advance to the point to keep us healthier, longer, offset some of these issues at a later stage of life, instead of having a Mike Matarazzo.
01:04:43.000 You need a fucking heart transplant when you're 40 instead of, well, maybe when you're 80, it slowly starts to give out because you've eaten fucking great, highly nutrient-dense foods your entire life.
01:04:54.000 You've been resting your body completely, not burning your nervous system out.
01:04:57.000 You're training intelligently, enough to stimulate progress, but not enough to shut anything down and break anything down.
01:05:03.000 You're living a rewarding, happy life surrounding yourself with positive people, and that's something that you talk about here all the time, and that's almost the most important aspect.
01:05:12.000 Is being a very well-adjusted, happy, positive individual.
01:05:15.000 And this is something that when I work with athletes, a lot of people think, oh, this is just this fucking diet dude, or I'm just making eggs for you or handing my athletes water.
01:05:23.000 I think that's the least of what I do.
01:05:25.000 The most of what I do is I try and get inside the athlete's head and help them focus on their life and what they want out of their life.
01:05:34.000 Setting up goals and helping them develop action steps and eliminating this negative energy around them so they can truly realize their full potential.
01:05:41.000 And that's, you know, I call it, we put a bubble of positivity around the athlete, especially as we get closer to competition, because that's when it's most important.
01:05:48.000 But it's really, we will try and keep that around them their entire life, give them the tools, teach them the lessons now that they can carry on.
01:05:55.000 So, will we all live to 120?
01:05:57.000 I don't know, but I've read scientific research that assumes or believes that there's humans being born right now, on the planet right now, that will exceed 200 years old.
01:06:06.000 Now, will that happen?
01:06:08.000 Who fucking knows?
01:06:08.000 Jamie, look at him.
01:06:10.000 It could be.
01:06:10.000 It actually could be.
01:06:11.000 He's fucked.
01:06:12.000 Maybe he's fucked.
01:06:12.000 He's gone.
01:06:13.000 He's got to get more pussy.
01:06:14.000 Oh, that?
01:06:15.000 There you go.
01:06:19.000 Yeah, but you bring up some really important points about stress and about surrounding yourself with positive things and positive energy.
01:06:28.000 You can tell the difference.
01:06:29.000 If you have some bad shit in your life, you have some conflict, you'll feel bad about that conflict.
01:06:35.000 The key is to resolve that stuff as much as possible and then figure out a way to make peace with the rest of it and move on with your life.
01:06:43.000 The less you put out battling it, the better you'll feel about it.
01:06:50.000 When I was younger, I would argue with people about everything.
01:06:52.000 I was constantly involved in conflict.
01:06:54.000 And then I realized as I got older, the less conflict I have, the better I feel.
01:06:57.000 And the more I resolve conflict and not get in it, it's better for everybody.
01:07:01.000 It's better for that person, it's better for me.
01:07:03.000 There's certain shit that's unavoidable, but all these people that are running around suing people all the time, those are the motherfuckers that die of heart attacks.
01:07:10.000 Absolutely.
01:07:10.000 Those are the motherfuckers that have stress, because they're constantly involved in battle.
01:07:14.000 And not the right kind of battle, either.
01:07:16.000 Not like a competition, you know, but just trying to lash out and...
01:07:36.000 It eats you alive.
01:07:38.000 Think of it.
01:07:38.000 You don't think of that as being a stress.
01:07:41.000 They think of stress as being bills.
01:07:44.000 They think of stress as being traffic.
01:07:46.000 No, stress is every...
01:07:47.000 All those things are stress.
01:07:49.000 Relationships, friendships, work, conflict.
01:07:51.000 When you're at work all day and you hate your job, that's stress.
01:07:55.000 That is stress.
01:07:56.000 That grinds on you.
01:07:57.000 That feeling.
01:07:58.000 When you get out of work at the end of the day and you have that...
01:08:02.000 Weight lifting off your shoulders, that means you're in a bad job.
01:08:05.000 You gotta figure out a way where you don't have that.
01:08:07.000 If it's possible, if it's possible, find that way.
01:08:11.000 That was me 10 years ago.
01:08:15.000 I was a municipal tax assessor in the state of New Jersey.
01:08:19.000 Just saying all those things together makes me want to fucking jump off a roof.
01:08:22.000 Dude, on Friday, I would literally get depressed on Friday because I knew Monday was coming.
01:08:27.000 Yeah, I know that feeling.
01:08:29.000 It was goddamn hell, but I was making a shitload of money.
01:08:32.000 My mom was so proud of me.
01:08:33.000 I had the 401k and the six weeks off vacation.
01:08:35.000 I was living, quote, the American dream.
01:08:37.000 I fucking hated myself.
01:08:39.000 God.
01:08:39.000 I sat around.
01:08:40.000 I remember this was the turning point for me.
01:08:41.000 I sat around a boardroom table and I was a lot younger than my closest peer and I'm looking at all these older dudes and we're all sitting there in suits and like, we're so fucking important, you know, being those dickheads.
01:08:50.000 And they're all overweight.
01:08:53.000 They all have red faces and they're all talking about how they're going to fucking, you know, sneak off to the bar before they go home because they don't want to deal with the fucking family and the kids and all the fucking bullshit.
01:09:03.000 I gotta get the fuck out of here.
01:09:04.000 I have to get the fuck out of here or I'm gonna fucking die like this.
01:09:08.000 I gotta change my life and that's what we did and I kind of threw that away, resigned from the position, took the job as the strength coach at Team Quest up in Portland, Oregon, moved across the country for fucking minimum wage to clean toilets and left that job behind and I fucking loved it.
01:09:23.000 I loved scrubbing disgusting shitty gym mats at 5 o'clock in the morning and not sitting in a beautiful corner office for X amount of dollars per year Because I was doing what I loved and I gave myself the opportunity and a chance to do something with my life and get rid of the stress.
01:09:40.000 I think that's why I'm kind of veering off.
01:09:41.000 That's what it was talking about.
01:09:42.000 I was so stressed out.
01:09:43.000 I was riding my bike.
01:09:44.000 I remember it was freezing cold fucking raining and I'm riding my fucking stupid bike because we had one vehicle.
01:09:50.000 My wife had to go fucking work.
01:09:51.000 I'm riding my fucking bike six miles to the gym and I fucking loved it.
01:09:54.000 It was such a pure, crisp, cold morning and I was just so alive in life.
01:09:59.000 Everything was brand new again.
01:10:00.000 I was in my mid-twenties at that point.
01:10:02.000 Mid-later-twenties at that point.
01:10:03.000 Fucking cool shit, man.
01:10:07.000 Yeah, man.
01:10:08.000 Taking chances and branching out on your own when it works out and rewards you, it lets you know that the universe rewards risk.
01:10:15.000 It rewards calculated risk and passion.
01:10:18.000 It really does.
01:10:18.000 And if you don't live your life like that, you're living your life afraid of risk, you're not going to get any reward either.
01:10:27.000 You're just going to be stuck.
01:10:29.000 You're going to be stuck in this bland, boring-ass, grinding existence.
01:10:36.000 And then it's over.
01:10:37.000 Then it's over.
01:10:38.000 Yeah, it's not like it lasts forever.
01:10:39.000 That's the number one thing.
01:10:40.000 Everybody wants to stay safe and comfortable.
01:10:43.000 Shit, this doesn't last.
01:10:45.000 This is not going to last.
01:10:46.000 You've got to be uncomfortable.
01:10:47.000 I'm uncomfortable all the fucking time.
01:10:50.000 I don't like 90% of what I do I don't like in some ways, you know, whether it's the exercise or writing or even performing or just...
01:11:00.000 I hate editing my...
01:11:02.000 I just had to edit my comedy special today.
01:11:04.000 I fucking hate staring at myself.
01:11:05.000 I don't like it.
01:11:06.000 It's uncomfortable.
01:11:07.000 You gotta do shit that's uncomfortable.
01:11:09.000 You get over it and then you get...
01:11:11.000 But you don't like certain aspects about it.
01:11:13.000 You gotta figure out, what don't I like about it?
01:11:15.000 What's not good?
01:11:16.000 What can I make better?
01:11:17.000 And then you make it better.
01:11:18.000 And you keep pushing and working and...
01:11:19.000 The more you do that, the more exciting it is.
01:11:22.000 The more you get a little bit of a reward, a little bit of juice out of accomplishing something, then you're on to the next thing.
01:11:28.000 But your life is constantly fun, filled with exciting shit, things going on all the time.
01:11:34.000 You've got to assess and move on and move forward.
01:11:37.000 If you don't do that, you're just stagnant.
01:11:40.000 Your pond water that you can't drink.
01:11:43.000 You know, you're fucked, man.
01:11:44.000 Festering.
01:11:44.000 That's it.
01:11:45.000 Wait and die.
01:11:46.000 And what drives you?
01:11:47.000 Have you ever kind of analyzed, like, what drives you to get your ass out of bed, make yourself uncomfortable yet again on another day that you can just fucking put your feet up and lay by the pool and enjoy the sunshine?
01:11:57.000 Mental illness.
01:11:58.000 That's what drives me.
01:11:59.000 And there you go.
01:12:00.000 Something's wrong with me.
01:12:01.000 There you go.
01:12:02.000 But I don't feel like I ever deserve breaks.
01:12:05.000 The only time I ever feel like I have to have a fucking brutal day where I can enjoy television.
01:12:10.000 But if my day's brutal enough, I'm like, alright, bitch, you can sit down and watch a little TV. That's the only way I'll allow myself.
01:12:29.000 I think a lot of people are giving themselves rewards all the time, but there's no risk.
01:12:36.000 And then there's also, there's no, like, sacrifice that led up to that reward.
01:12:40.000 And you gotta enjoy the sacrifice.
01:12:43.000 You gotta enjoy the grind.
01:12:44.000 You know, when I say that 90% of the shit I do I don't enjoy, I don't, but I enjoy that I can do it.
01:12:50.000 You know, like, who the fuck wants to lift weights?
01:12:52.000 No, you want the reward of the lifting weights.
01:12:55.000 And the only way you get a strong body is if you do shit you don't want to do.
01:12:59.000 When you get to that third rep, you're like, I'm good.
01:13:01.000 But you're not good, stupid.
01:13:02.000 You got seven more to go.
01:13:04.000 And if you don't do those seven more, you're going to feel like a fucking loser when you put those weights down.
01:13:08.000 You're like, I'm a bitch.
01:13:09.000 I should have fucking kept going and I stopped.
01:13:11.000 If you stop, you're missing out on the whole point...
01:13:15.000 That is the grind.
01:13:17.000 That is the keeping going.
01:13:19.000 The good kind of grind.
01:13:20.000 The working towards something grind.
01:13:22.000 People ask me, they're like, Dolce, do you cheat?
01:13:25.000 Or can I cheat?
01:13:26.000 Or do you have a cheat day?
01:13:27.000 And I always retort, why are you going to cheat?
01:13:32.000 Have you earned it?
01:13:33.000 And that's what we use.
01:13:35.000 It's an earned meal.
01:13:35.000 It's not a fucking cheat meal.
01:13:36.000 It's not a cheat day.
01:13:37.000 It's an earned meal.
01:13:38.000 Have you earned it?
01:13:39.000 And they're like, well, I don't know.
01:13:40.000 Well, then you have it.
01:13:41.000 Like you.
01:13:42.000 When you fucking kick your own ass, you're totally spent.
01:13:46.000 That's when you...
01:13:47.000 Reward yourself with your earned TV time or whatever it is, your cocktail.
01:13:50.000 Same thing when it comes to health and fitness, and this goes to the accountability side.
01:13:54.000 If you want to be successful, you want to set yourself up to succeed, well, you have to be accountable.
01:13:58.000 I can't fucking do it.
01:14:00.000 I can't do it for you.
01:14:01.000 I wish I could.
01:14:02.000 There's 7 billion people on the planet.
01:14:03.000 I can't do it.
01:14:08.000 We're good to go.
01:14:25.000 They go to the gym.
01:14:26.000 They do their little thing.
01:14:26.000 They eat their chicken and rice.
01:14:27.000 You know, Monday through Friday, maybe.
01:14:29.000 They're kind of okay.
01:14:29.000 They cheat just a little bit here and there.
01:14:31.000 They go off-menu, let's say.
01:14:32.000 And then Saturday's my cheat day, or Sunday's my cheat day, and football's on.
01:14:35.000 And what happens Monday?
01:14:36.000 They look fucking exactly the same.
01:14:38.000 And then they do the same basic workout for the same basic reps and they do that, you know, the same.
01:14:42.000 It's just the fucking same and they're on that rat wheel.
01:14:44.000 So if you really, you know, talking to people out there, if you really want to break out, you really want to be spectacular, you really want to start to fulfill your potential, you have to make yourself uncomfortable, you have to challenge yourself, and then you have to earn it.
01:14:56.000 So with my athletes, with myself, our earned meals are maybe once or twice a month.
01:15:00.000 And what is an earned meal?
01:15:01.000 I don't know, maybe it's my wife's birthday, maybe, you know, just...
01:15:05.000 Going to see a fucking movie or something is coming out.
01:15:07.000 And then what is my earned meal?
01:15:09.000 My earned meal is typically a little bit more food that I normally fucking love anyway because our recipes are fucking delicious.
01:15:15.000 I'm not going to eat some shit burger outside when I can make a kick-ass grass-fed fucking burger with baked sweet potato fries.
01:15:21.000 I'm going to eat four of those motherfuckers instead of just eating my traditional six or eight ounce one.
01:15:26.000 So that would be a basic earned meal.
01:15:27.000 No Krispy Kreme donuts.
01:15:28.000 Oh, God.
01:15:29.000 I would love to.
01:15:30.000 And the former Dolce...
01:15:32.000 Would.
01:15:33.000 I would, fuck, I was...
01:15:33.000 Former Dulce.
01:15:34.000 Former dude.
01:15:35.000 282 pounds.
01:15:36.000 You know, once upon a time, I was the dude that would, I'd get a whole pizza and I'd put a half a pound of provolone cheese on top, eat that whole motherfucker.
01:15:45.000 Half gallon of ice cream, big king-sized Snickers bar, and something colored to finish it down.
01:15:50.000 Colored beverages only.
01:15:51.000 Like high C? What high C, fucking crush, Hawaiian punch.
01:15:55.000 If it was colored, it had more calories than I was fucking drinking it.
01:15:59.000 Yeah.
01:15:59.000 Oh, hell yeah, grape soda.
01:16:00.000 Root beer in the summer.
01:16:01.000 And was that a cheat day or was that all the time?
01:16:03.000 That was performance science.
01:16:06.000 That was me trying to hit 10,000 calories a day so I could squat 700, 800 plus pounds and deadlift 600, 700 pounds.
01:16:13.000 That was when I was only goal-oriented, performance-oriented.
01:16:16.000 Tons of fucking protein powders, weight gainers, creatine, ZMA. What's in those weight gainers?
01:16:22.000 Like you see those tubs.
01:16:23.000 Is that just calories and sugar?
01:16:25.000 Garbage.
01:16:25.000 It's all fucking garbage, man.
01:16:28.000 Unfortunately, it's all preservatives, it's all chemicals, it's all coloring, it's all additives, and it's very little of the nutrition you're actually purchasing it for.
01:16:37.000 It's such watered-down components of what is on the front label, just enough so they can legally put it in there and not get fucking sued, and it's a shitload of everything else.
01:16:46.000 So your journey to becoming this MMA fitness diet guru, you've kind of like changed your own life in the process.
01:16:55.000 You've sort of figured out what makes you happy, what makes you consistently perform well.
01:17:01.000 And in the process, you've sort of become this guy by trial and error and education and application.
01:17:07.000 And now here you are in this position where, I mean, fucking 90% of the guys that I see That are doing well in MMA. I see guys with these Dolce Diet shirts on.
01:17:18.000 I mean, you have so many athletes that follow your protocols, and whenever someone is in trouble, and they have a hard time cutting weight, they come to you.
01:17:28.000 How did all this start?
01:17:29.000 How did you become this guy?
01:17:31.000 Was it through, like what you said, Kurt Pellegrino, and then Kurt told other people, and that kind of shit?
01:17:36.000 That was like 2002, 2003. I was working with guys on Team Henzo Gracie.
01:17:41.000 I started training under Henzo, and I'd been a powerlifter for years before that, and I was an amateur wrestler for years before that.
01:17:47.000 So I've been cutting weight since I was 13 years old.
01:17:49.000 I was a varsity captain as a freshman, so a four-year varsity letterman, captain of the team, and I was just, since I was eight years old, fathered fucking massive stroke.
01:17:59.000 I dove into bodybuilding and weightlifting at that age, and I was just attuned to it.
01:18:04.000 I was in honors, sciences, biology, mathematics, and I just had that type of analytical brain, and I would analyze everything and all this shit.
01:18:12.000 So, you know, I won't get too deep into that.
01:18:13.000 As I went through, I was always cutting weight, always trying to get bigger, always trying to get stronger.
01:18:18.000 I was rather short, had no money, family was broke, wanted to go to college.
01:18:22.000 How the fuck am I going to go?
01:18:23.000 Poor kid from fucking New Jersey.
01:18:24.000 How am I going to go to college?
01:18:26.000 Only way I could do it was through a scholarship.
01:18:28.000 We're good to go.
01:18:50.000 We're great dudes, but they didn't have the high-level experience.
01:18:52.000 None of my teammates did.
01:18:53.000 How am I going to advance?
01:18:55.000 It's not through technique.
01:18:56.000 It's not through experience.
01:18:57.000 It's not through grinding steel on steel.
01:18:59.000 It's just being in better shape than everybody.
01:19:01.000 I had to be that guy, and that's the guy that I actually became.
01:19:04.000 And that's what really started more of this focus on the strength and conditioning.
01:19:08.000 Do you work with guys on strength and conditioning as well as working with them with diet?
01:19:13.000 How do you balance that out?
01:19:14.000 Because I talked to Steve Maxwell about this, and Maxwell, who's a really well-respected guy and a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to strength and conditioning and athletics.
01:19:27.000 He believes that you should do all of your strength workouts and your conditioning workouts kind of building up to a camp.
01:19:36.000 And then when you're in camp, the majority of your work should be spent doing the actual sport itself.
01:19:41.000 Without knowing his entire protocol, I agree on principle.
01:19:45.000 And what I do and how I work best is not just overseeing the nutrition, the diet, and the weight cut.
01:19:51.000 I call it the peaking program, and I bake it out into the traditional...
01:19:55.000 I think?
01:20:14.000 Rebuild, regenerate, and continue building him all the way through until he's 35 when he plans to retire and the specific goals that we have set.
01:20:21.000 So a guy like Nick Lentz, I took over five or six fights ago when he was a 55-pounder.
01:20:27.000 It'll be a little long-winded, but to kind of help explain your answer to the question here.
01:20:32.000 Took him over and he was doing a lot of the wrong things.
01:20:34.000 Training really hard.
01:20:34.000 Totally over-trained.
01:20:35.000 Over-reaching syndrome constantly.
01:20:37.000 Malnourished.
01:20:37.000 Couldn't understand why his body wasn't losing weight.
01:20:39.000 He was walking around in the mid-160s.
01:20:41.000 Could barely make fucking 55 without damn near dying.
01:20:44.000 Said, will I work with him?
01:20:45.000 I said, yes, but only at 145. And he's like, are you fucking crazy?
01:20:48.000 I told you I can't make 55. I said, you'll be a world champion at 145. I do believe that.
01:20:54.000 You're an undersized 155 pounder.
01:20:56.000 And you're not training properly.
01:20:57.000 What I want to do with you is I want to add 10 to 12 pounds of muscle and grow you into the 145-pound class.
01:21:03.000 Blew his mind.
01:21:04.000 It didn't make any sense to him, but to his credit, he said, okay, and just gave me the reins.
01:21:08.000 So from that point on, I looked at multi-month cycles, three-week cycles, three-month cycles, and then a 12-month cycle.
01:21:16.000 To put on lean mass.
01:21:17.000 And what we did, we took him from 163 pounds to 175 pounds.
01:21:20.000 We dropped his body fat from probably 13 to 14 down to right about 10%.
01:21:24.000 And then he's able to make 145 consistently now easily.
01:21:28.000 So using Steve's methodology in the off season, it's much more volume.
01:21:33.000 It's more strength building.
01:21:34.000 It's more muscle work.
01:21:35.000 Not exactly hypertrophy because I don't really believe in that, but we're always staying anabolic.
01:21:40.000 That's the goal.
01:21:40.000 We always want the body constantly regenerating, regenerating, regenerating.
01:21:44.000 Because once we stop regenerating, then we're breaking down.
01:21:47.000 Once we start breaking down, everything goes to shit.
01:21:49.000 So, with Nick, using him as the example again, build him up in the off-season, and that's where I start to break down these three-week mini-cycles.
01:21:56.000 Three weeks before the fight, that's the peaking phase.
01:21:58.000 That's when everything, the volume drops dramatically, the intensity goes up, but it's safe intensity.
01:22:03.000 You're not sparring your fucking hardest those last three weeks.
01:22:06.000 You're sparring your most intense and most precise We're good to go.
01:22:32.000 Your mind meaning you just you resolve like mental toughness I mean we see guys unfortunately that they get into the octagon They get put a bad spot that they haven't been in before and they fold because they haven't been there You have to go to those spots unfortunately, but you have to do it in a very calculated fashion Because you go there too often you'll break in training and you'll give up in the fight you don't go there enough and You'll break in the fight,
01:22:56.000 and again, it's going to be the same result.
01:22:58.000 So you have to touch it just enough, and this is where that periodization comes in.
01:23:01.000 So I help oversee the overall training program.
01:23:04.000 I help the athlete.
01:23:05.000 Usually it's spar less.
01:23:07.000 I try and pull them back because a lot of these athletes are sparring two and three times a week, and I try and only have them spar.
01:23:12.000 Once a week, really from six weeks out, one good hard spar, proper spar, and one tech spar is really the methodology that I push.
01:23:19.000 Save the brain, save the body, let's get more precise.
01:23:21.000 And then hit the other hard drilling in certain phases.
01:23:24.000 And then as we get farther out, it's more skill building.
01:23:26.000 We're looking to just add tools and see what tools fit the overall game.
01:23:30.000 You know, throw ten different techniques on the ground and see what fits.
01:23:33.000 And as we get a little closer, we take the ten, we put it to five.
01:23:35.000 As we get a little closer, maybe the athlete's only going to keep one or two usable techniques that will actually show up come fight day.
01:23:42.000 We're not trying to add new techniques six weeks out, three weeks out for sure.
01:23:45.000 At that point, it's just fine-tuning and perfecting, but that also comes into their physical preparation.
01:23:50.000 What's their body weight like?
01:23:52.000 What's the health?
01:23:52.000 Again, health is everything.
01:23:54.000 It's mental health.
01:23:54.000 It's physical health.
01:23:55.000 That's what allows them to perform at their ultimate.
01:23:58.000 So long-winded way of saying I agree with Steve quite a bit.
01:24:03.000 Strength building, that's off-season stuff.
01:24:05.000 We want to keep that type of strength, that explosive strength, that absolute or maximal strength that we build in the off-season.
01:24:11.000 We want to keep that, but now we want to turn it into a different type of strength, like a strength speed or speed endurance, as we get into this specific competition.
01:24:19.000 And that changes depending on what the sport is.
01:24:22.000 What happened with Charles Oliveira?
01:24:25.000 Charles Oliveira and Nick Lentz were supposed to fight this past weekend.
01:24:29.000 They did not fight because Oliveira showed up heavy, and then the day of the fight, they pulled him.
01:24:33.000 They said he was sick, apparently.
01:24:35.000 Normally, I don't really pull back the veil, but I think because this is such a public situation, and Oliveira and his team, they've already spoken on it.
01:24:43.000 Unfortunately, what they said was incorrect from what we saw.
01:24:46.000 So Nick and I, this fight's on Friday.
01:24:47.000 Nick and I, we get there on Monday, and we're already...
01:24:50.000 Nick gets to town at 164 pounds.
01:24:53.000 He's fighting at 146. That's the official weighing weight.
01:24:55.000 And that's actually lighter than Nick normally is.
01:24:57.000 But we tightened up his diet just a little bit for Charles specifically.
01:25:01.000 We knew Nick was going to overpower him.
01:25:03.000 We wanted Nick to be just a little bit lighter, a little bit leaner, a little bit faster for this fight in better condition in case it was a three-round dogfight.
01:25:11.000 Charles called Nick out, by the way.
01:25:12.000 So Charles asked for this fight after they had had a no contest years before.
01:25:16.000 So, Monday, Nick and I, we start doing our thing, cutting weight.
01:25:19.000 Now, my athletes don't work out.
01:25:21.000 I strongly suggest Fight Week.
01:25:22.000 They do not work out.
01:25:24.000 And a lot of, you know, coaches...
01:25:25.000 At all?
01:25:26.000 At all.
01:25:26.000 What do you mean?
01:25:27.000 At all.
01:25:27.000 No, we don't put on the fucking gloves.
01:25:29.000 We don't grapple.
01:25:30.000 We don't hit mitts because we're now...
01:25:32.000 Oh, that work's done.
01:25:33.000 We're preparing for competition.
01:25:35.000 We're pulling the weight at this point.
01:25:36.000 And I want to feed the athlete as much as possible, hydrate them as much as possible, keep them as strong and healthy as possible so they can endure the process of cutting weight, whereas I like to frame it positively as purification.
01:25:49.000 We're purifying the body as we go through this Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Step on the Scale Friday phase where the body is completely clean, pure, and we can just put the best possible nutrients back in When you say no working out, you mean nothing?
01:26:03.000 I mean nothing.
01:26:03.000 I mean the most that we'll do, and I talk about that in three weeks to shred it, what I do with Tiago Alves.
01:26:07.000 This is a great...
01:26:08.000 Maybe we should talk about this next.
01:26:10.000 Tiago's last fight, he weighed in at 171 the night before weigh-ins using this new protocol that we're using because they're fucking healthy.
01:26:18.000 We're not tearing them down during fight week.
01:26:21.000 Actually, I build my athletes to this scale.
01:26:24.000 Everybody else tears themselves down to this scale.
01:26:26.000 I build my athletes to this scale.
01:26:28.000 And it sounds counterintuitive, and a lot of people think I'm...
01:26:31.000 Fucking lying or whatever, you know, bro-sciencing out.
01:26:33.000 But no, this is the real fucking shit.
01:26:36.000 So with Nick, what we doing, we don't work out.
01:26:39.000 We're going downstairs to the hot tub and we're just hanging out.
01:26:42.000 He's playing his fucking, you know, whatever video games because he's a tech head.
01:26:46.000 He's playing his fucking games.
01:26:47.000 We're fucking chilling out to music.
01:26:48.000 We're just shooting the shit like you would do with your boys.
01:26:50.000 Just hanging out in the hot tub for a little bit.
01:26:52.000 Comozzi's coming down and hanging out with Ben Rothbro a little bit.
01:26:55.000 We're just shooting the shit down there.
01:26:56.000 Charles and his coach are in the fucking sauna on Monday in plastic fucking suits and sweatpants all goddamn day long.
01:27:04.000 Nick and I were in the hot tub for a half hour just to break a sweat, drinking water the whole time, eat beforehand, stay hydrated during, go upstairs and eat again.
01:27:12.000 This is what we do and that's what we did typically twice a day during fight week.
01:27:15.000 Every time we went downstairs to the spa, which was beautiful at this hotel, Foxwoods, Charles was in the fucking sauna.
01:27:21.000 Plastics on, in the sauna, and they would pick him up, carry him out, and just fucking let him lay on the floor, and then they'd cover him with towels.
01:27:28.000 So archaic, and this is what a lot of athletes do.
01:27:31.000 Charles was an extreme example.
01:27:33.000 They're doing this on Monday?
01:27:35.000 They're doing this on Monday, man.
01:27:36.000 Fucking Monday.
01:27:37.000 If you're doing that...
01:27:39.000 Maybe, maybe I can see athletes doing that like the night before in the morning of.
01:27:43.000 They're doing it fucking Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday.
01:27:47.000 Now, we waited on Thursday.
01:27:48.000 On Wednesday, and this is fun, so we're watching him just break this fucking kid.
01:27:51.000 He's laying there in the sauna, I mean, just not moving, you know, and he'd get up and, you know, he'd do and he'd kind of like give us a thumbs up.
01:27:57.000 He was a nice kid.
01:27:58.000 Nothing bad to say about Charles.
01:27:59.000 Nothing bad to say about his coach, but what they did was wrong.
01:28:02.000 They broke him in the fucking sauna.
01:28:04.000 Nick and I saw it and we're like...
01:28:07.000 You know, high five.
01:28:08.000 I mean, it makes our job a hell of a lot easier because Nick's fucking great.
01:28:11.000 And, you know, Nick's there.
01:28:12.000 At one point, Charles comes in, sits in the hot tub at the very end, and he's looking at Nick, and Nick's just sitting there drinking water, you know, shooting the shit.
01:28:19.000 Charles is over there, dry mouth, just sucked out, big dark bags under his eyes after being in the fucking sauna for God knows how long.
01:28:26.000 And just kind of laid out on the wall.
01:28:28.000 So Wednesday comes in.
01:28:29.000 This is actually funny.
01:28:30.000 Wednesday comes, middle of the day.
01:28:32.000 Charles' coach, they drag him out of the fucking sauna.
01:28:34.000 They're just sitting there.
01:28:35.000 I took a photo of it.
01:28:36.000 I was going to tweet it like what not to do.
01:28:38.000 And I was like, ah, that's, you know, fucking bad.
01:28:40.000 Maybe I shouldn't do that.
01:28:41.000 Maybe I should have.
01:28:41.000 I don't know.
01:28:42.000 He comes over and he's like, hey, guys.
01:28:45.000 I want to have a proposition for you.
01:28:46.000 And I think, oh, this fucker's not going to make weight.
01:28:48.000 They want to catch weight.
01:28:49.000 I have a proposition for you.
01:28:51.000 What's up?
01:28:51.000 He's like, what you're doing right now, this is not going to work.
01:28:55.000 He's like, you're not going to lose weight like this.
01:28:57.000 In the back, I have salt and I have alcohol.
01:29:00.000 And I want to pour it in the tub for you.
01:29:02.000 So that in 30 minutes, you'll lose the same amount as you'll lose in three hours doing what you're doing right now.
01:29:10.000 I'm thinking, are you fucking kidding me?
01:29:12.000 Salt and alcohol in the water?
01:29:14.000 And I'm assuming he means Epsom salt and rubbing alcohol, which a lot of athletes use, and I have the data on that.
01:29:20.000 There's not a discernible difference, and there's actually negative effects from doing that.
01:29:24.000 I can touch on that in a...
01:29:26.000 In a second.
01:29:27.000 So, I say to him, I'm like, no, we're good.
01:29:30.000 I mean, Nick's losing a pound every 15 minutes and we're replacing it the whole time because, again, I'm a data head and I track all my athletes.
01:29:37.000 I know Johnny Hendricks, you know, between 195 and 185 pounds.
01:29:41.000 He'd lose 1.2 pounds of fluid every 15 minutes.
01:29:44.000 I know Nick Lentz loses a pound on the dot.
01:29:46.000 Okay, hold on.
01:29:46.000 I'm going to stop you right there.
01:29:47.000 Sorry.
01:29:47.000 I'm confused as fuck.
01:29:48.000 You make him lose weight and then you put it back on.
01:29:52.000 No, what we're doing is we're just training the body.
01:29:55.000 To sweat.
01:29:56.000 To sweat.
01:29:56.000 To just have the water purifying.
01:29:58.000 We're purifying, pushing out the toxins.
01:30:00.000 Are you giving them...
01:30:01.000 Is it distilled water?
01:30:03.000 Is it regular water?
01:30:04.000 No, it's regular, purified water.
01:30:05.000 Do they ever drink distilled water?
01:30:07.000 No.
01:30:07.000 There's some sort of a theory behind that, right?
01:30:09.000 That you drink a lot of distilled water and it forces your body to release all of its electrolytes or something?
01:30:14.000 And it leaches your body of all these healthy minerals, electrolytes and such, the distilled water.
01:30:18.000 We don't do that because we're trying to preserve health.
01:30:21.000 Again, we're not trying...
01:30:22.000 So how do you get them to lose 30 fucking pounds?
01:30:24.000 Speed up their metabolism through proper eating, proper meal size.
01:30:27.000 They eat small and often.
01:30:29.000 Usually it's...
01:30:30.000 We're good to go.
01:30:51.000 It's all on fight week.
01:30:52.000 We keep sodium in the diet for the most part, most of fight week.
01:30:55.000 We elevate and then lower, but we never drop completely.
01:30:58.000 A lot of people, they just pull the carbs, and they pull the salt, and then they just fucking drink the distilled water.
01:31:03.000 So how do you get Nick?
01:31:04.000 He weighs in.
01:31:05.000 The week he shows up, he's 164. He's got to get down to 145, 146. How do you get him to lose that amount of weight in a week?
01:31:12.000 We speed up his metabolism, which matters quite a bit.
01:31:15.000 So he gets to town at 164. So you change his diet the week of?
01:31:19.000 We change.
01:31:20.000 Usually it's 10 days out.
01:31:21.000 What we do is 10 days out, we increase sodium, but not a dramatic amount.
01:31:24.000 What I tell the athletes is add more salt to your foods, but not so much that it tastes bad.
01:31:29.000 Just add more than you normally do.
01:31:31.000 So let's say you're taking it the week beforehand.
01:31:34.000 So 10 days out typically should be your hardest training session.
01:31:38.000 Okay, because any more than 10 days out, now we're too close to the competition time, you might not be fully recovered and you're not going to perform at your best.
01:31:45.000 So right about 10 days out, usually the Tuesday before the fight or the following week, that should be the hardest day.
01:31:50.000 And then everything else we start to pull way back.
01:31:52.000 Light and medium workouts, much shorter intensities.
01:31:54.000 Start to increase your sodium just a little bit.
01:31:57.000 So you can taste it, but it's nothing that you don't like.
01:32:00.000 Never too much that it's not good.
01:32:02.000 Add a little bit more to your water.
01:32:03.000 We add pink Himalayan sea salt.
01:32:04.000 Love the Onnit brand, actually, for that.
01:32:06.000 That's the one I use almost primarily.
01:32:08.000 To the water, while they're training, just add a little bit more.
01:32:10.000 So we increase their sodium content just a little bit.
01:32:13.000 And then usually, depending on the athlete, Saturday or Sunday, sometimes even Monday morning, we pull that back.
01:32:18.000 We don't add any more.
01:32:19.000 We don't add additional salt.
01:32:21.000 So we rise the sodium up, then we pull it back down to normal levels, probably anywhere between 1,000 to 2,000 milligrams, depending on the athlete, depending on their lifestyle, and we really focus on feeding them a similar caloric content, but more often.
01:32:33.000 So it's basically the same, let's say, 2,000 calories a day, but instead of 5 to 6 meals, now we're eating 8 to 10 smaller meals all day long.
01:32:43.000 The metabolism speeds up.
01:32:44.000 We're also focusing on more fiber, cleaning out their digestive tract.
01:32:48.000 A lot of times, athletes will step on the scale with impacted food matter still sitting inside of them.
01:32:52.000 Two, four, six pounds, who knows?
01:32:54.000 Is that real?
01:32:55.000 That's real, absolutely.
01:32:56.000 Four to six pounds, that's a lot of steaks.
01:32:59.000 If you looked at six steaks, slap six steaks down, like boom, boom, boom, six T-bones, 16-ounce T-bone steaks, that's a lot of fucking weight.
01:33:08.000 And the fluid that food absorbs as it comes out.
01:33:11.000 Is that much in a person's bowels?
01:33:13.000 Where does it all fit?
01:33:14.000 I would estimate, they say John Wayne had like 20 some odd pounds.
01:33:17.000 That's all bullshit.
01:33:17.000 True or not.
01:33:18.000 That's not true.
01:33:19.000 True or not, I don't know.
01:33:20.000 But I estimate somewhere up to 3 pounds.
01:33:23.000 Of impacted food matter depending on when your last meals were or when you're high protein, you're harder to digest meals were.
01:33:29.000 I had heard that that's bullshit.
01:33:32.000 It's like one of those common myths.
01:33:34.000 The amount of impacted food the average American male has in their gut when they die.
01:33:40.000 Have you ever read that shit?
01:33:42.000 There's like a Snopes thing on that.
01:33:43.000 Hold on, I'm going to pull that up.
01:33:44.000 But please, keep going.
01:33:45.000 So we speed up their metabolism.
01:33:47.000 We increase their digestive efficiency.
01:33:49.000 We make sure they are completely clean.
01:33:52.000 And then what we focus on is these small sweats.
01:33:54.000 We keep the body sweating.
01:33:56.000 We allow them to be used to sweating, but we keep rehydrating them.
01:33:59.000 So it's easier for them to keep sweating.
01:34:02.000 And these athletes sweat a shitload during this time.
01:34:05.000 The only time is when we stop adding water is usually the night before, the day before.
01:34:10.000 Wayne's are on Thursday.
01:34:11.000 We stop somewhere midday Friday.
01:34:13.000 We pull the water out.
01:34:14.000 And then we'll use what I call the step method.
01:34:16.000 Where it's a very simple way to not break the athlete.
01:34:20.000 To keep them sweating properly.
01:34:22.000 And the weight again comes off.
01:34:24.000 And it's all through hot tub.
01:34:26.000 Hot bath.
01:34:27.000 It's never in the sauna.
01:34:28.000 So we don't train fight week.
01:34:29.000 We ain't going to the fucking sauna.
01:34:31.000 We don't put on plastics unless it's like that last minute.
01:34:34.000 It's freezing outside.
01:34:34.000 We need to pull off another few ounces on the way to the venue.
01:34:38.000 Then we'll throw some plastics on.
01:34:39.000 Um...
01:34:41.000 And how much actual dehydration is it?
01:34:44.000 The day of, when he wakes up on Friday morning, if it's a Saturday fight, what does Nick Lentz weigh when he wakes up?
01:34:51.000 Nick cut three and a half pounds on the day of weigh-ins.
01:34:54.000 That's it?
01:34:54.000 Yeah, that's it.
01:34:54.000 He woke up the day before, 12 pounds over.
01:34:57.000 We ate three meals that day.
01:34:59.000 I think he drank almost a gallon of water that morning.
01:35:02.000 And just by drinking the water so frequently, it pushes the water out.
01:35:05.000 And then we cut...
01:35:07.000 So he woke up at 158 the day before.
01:35:13.000 He floated two pounds off by the time we got to the tub later on that night.
01:35:17.000 He went to bed at 150. So we lost about six pounds, and that's usually half.
01:35:21.000 And that's a good estimate.
01:35:23.000 The day before, we want to lose about half the night before.
01:35:25.000 You're going to float one to three pounds typically while you sleep, and then the next morning is usually two to four pounds.
01:35:32.000 So it's very small, controlled, you know, elimination of weight and it's water weight and he's still eating.
01:35:40.000 He's never not eating.
01:35:41.000 He's still picking.
01:35:42.000 He's not having these big meals, but we go from meals to, you know, kind of snack size to now it's handfuls just to keep his metabolism moving, keep his body processing the food, keep pulling the nutrients, keep his blood sugar stable, keep his brain on, keep his mood elevated so he doesn't feel like shit.
01:36:00.000 Hmm.
01:36:00.000 According to Snopes, John Wayne did not have that much impacted in his body, but Elvis apparently had a lot because he was taking drugs.
01:36:10.000 He was impacted.
01:36:11.000 He couldn't constipate it from the painkillers, right?
01:36:13.000 But I've heard that, too.
01:36:14.000 That's why I wanted to look that up.
01:36:17.000 Apparently, you would be in such incredible pain if you had that much food impacted in your bowels, which makes sense.
01:36:25.000 So if you were to eat, you know...
01:36:27.000 How many pounds of food do you think the average person, dude, eats in a given day?
01:36:31.000 200 pound guy.
01:36:32.000 6 pounds, 8 pounds, maybe 10 pounds of food.
01:36:35.000 You wake up at 190, you go to bed at 198 or so.
01:36:38.000 There's fluid in there, but you've pissed and shit out some.
01:36:41.000 Do you account at all for biological variability?
01:36:45.000 Does Nick Lentz have a different diet than, say, Tiago Alves?
01:36:48.000 Yes.
01:36:49.000 Does he?
01:36:49.000 And how do you know what to do for each individual guy?
01:36:54.000 So we stick with the principles never change, and that's really the scientific base.
01:36:58.000 The principles never change, but the individual application almost always does.
01:37:02.000 And it changes with the same athlete from fight to fight, because the athlete is never the same.
01:37:07.000 No matter what we're doing in this camp, three months, six months from now, it's a different athlete.
01:37:12.000 It's a different physiology.
01:37:13.000 It's a different training pattern.
01:37:14.000 It's a different mood.
01:37:15.000 It's a different lifestyle.
01:37:16.000 How so?
01:37:17.000 Give me an example, like Tiago Alves.
01:37:19.000 So with Tiago, what we did in the beginning, you know, he missed weight with John Fitch in 2010. I started working with him two days later, brought him down, fought John Fitch, John Howard, and His weight issue was gone.
01:37:30.000 And then he had some injuries.
01:37:31.000 He had his knees fixed.
01:37:32.000 He had his shoulders and arms fixed.
01:37:33.000 He was on the shelf for two years.
01:37:34.000 25 months actually.
01:37:36.000 We came back and he fought in Orlando in April.
01:37:39.000 And the new and improved Tiago had been on the meal plan almost the entire time.
01:37:44.000 Was eating properly those 52 weeks out of the year.
01:37:46.000 And he does his Sunday Funday and he has...
01:37:50.000 We're good to go.
01:38:11.000 And he fucking looked awesome.
01:38:13.000 Slowly but surely, I tightened up his diet, I tightened the wheels and the switches just a little bit, really made sure he was getting enough food to fuel, but not enough to spill over.
01:38:23.000 And we were able to slowly bring his weight down to the lower 90s.
01:38:26.000 So if he's 8% body fat, and you're lowering his body weight, are you causing atrophy?
01:38:33.000 What are you doing?
01:38:33.000 To a degree.
01:38:35.000 With him, we're trying to eliminate a little bit of muscle or reduce some of the muscle volume that he has.
01:38:41.000 And it's all water weight.
01:38:42.000 Because you can tell that he definitely looked slimmer when he fought Seth Pazinski.
01:38:46.000 He looked great.
01:38:47.000 He looked awesome.
01:38:48.000 Fought great.
01:38:49.000 He had a great gas tank.
01:38:50.000 I mean, he looked really good in that fight.
01:38:52.000 But I found it fascinating that he weighed so little the day before the fight.
01:38:57.000 When he entered into the cage, what did he weigh?
01:38:59.000 194. So how are you doing that?
01:39:03.000 Pulling him down.
01:39:04.000 The same exact principle, different foods for Tiago than what Lentz ate.
01:39:07.000 Tiago is much more of a protein and fat metabolizer.
01:39:13.000 Nick Lentz is much more of a vegetable and produce metabolizer.
01:39:17.000 They perform better or their analytics are much better when they have those type of foods and that just comes through experience working with these guys.
01:39:23.000 So Tiago was more heavy.
01:39:24.000 It was chicken and steak and eggs, avocados, different types of oils and seeds.
01:39:30.000 To really bring him down.
01:39:31.000 Anytime he has the heavier carbs outside of the breakfast bowl, oats and such, berries first thing in the morning, he tends to bloat up and really hold on to that water.
01:39:38.000 So we slowly eliminate that.
01:39:40.000 So no pastas for him or things along those lines?
01:39:43.000 I think we did pasta probably...
01:39:46.000 Two weeks out where we do a refeed.
01:39:50.000 Once a week we'll do a refeed where we go really high carbohydrate, but we'll stage that with a lower carbohydrate either before or right after.
01:39:57.000 So we'll do the refeed definitely once a week, sometimes twice a week, depending on how close we are.
01:40:02.000 And what's the benefits of a refeed?
01:40:03.000 It's to refill the body of lost glycogen to make sure that usable energy is available.
01:40:09.000 And it's also a mood elevator because a lot of times the athlete starts to get a little, you know, shitty if they're not getting more carbohydrates.
01:40:16.000 And the brain runs on carbohydrates also.
01:40:18.000 So you can see the mood kind of decrease just a little bit.
01:40:22.000 And also performance.
01:40:23.000 I'm working with Manny Gamburian right now to drop him from 45 to 135. Got him on the first program, the initial program.
01:40:30.000 And it was just a little bit too low carbohydrate.
01:40:33.000 And he's like, oh, his mood was down just a little bit.
01:40:35.000 He didn't feel that snap in practice.
01:40:37.000 And we really just brought him up about 100 extra carbohydrates per day.
01:40:40.000 And he fucking felt amazing.
01:40:42.000 So it was really trying to find the line that is exactly what they need without spilling over.
01:40:48.000 And once we got that, we got him feeling good for 10 days.
01:40:50.000 We're able to stage it down just a little bit and he feels even better.
01:40:54.000 So now we're slowly into that last three-week phase, the peaking phase, and he's now 148 pounds yesterday, which his last fight for him to get under 155, he felt like he was going to die.
01:41:05.000 So now he's training at 140. It feels fucking amazing.
01:41:08.000 Fully fed, six-plus meals a day, but everything's kind of perfectly controlled.
01:41:13.000 Wow.
01:41:13.000 So this protocol that you make, you make a specific one for each fighter, and you sort of work with them.
01:41:19.000 Same principles.
01:41:20.000 What happened with BJ Penn?
01:41:21.000 Because BJ Penn was upset with you after his fight and said a lot of shit in the press and just really wasn't happy with it.
01:41:29.000 His exact quote was, without the IV, you're nothing.
01:41:34.000 He wanted to not use intravenous fluid retention.
01:41:40.000 He didn't want to get an IV to rehydrate.
01:41:43.000 Yeah.
01:41:44.000 The IV was available and ready, and the doctor was on call, and he didn't want the IV. Why didn't he want an IV? He didn't say...
01:41:51.000 Well, no, that's not true.
01:41:52.000 Days before, he had said he'd never used one before.
01:41:54.000 He was worried about how he would feel.
01:41:56.000 He said he would play it by ear if he did feel like he needed one.
01:42:00.000 But he didn't cut any weight.
01:42:02.000 And that's why I didn't disagree with him.
01:42:04.000 Now, he runs the show.
01:42:06.000 He's the boss of the camp.
01:42:09.000 Period.
01:42:09.000 The end of story.
01:42:10.000 And that was very clear.
01:42:12.000 He didn't want the IV and I didn't disagree with him because he didn't cut an ounce.
01:42:16.000 He was eating and drinking on weigh-in day walking over to weigh-ins.
01:42:21.000 This is not an athlete that was dehydrated.
01:42:24.000 It was not an athlete that was suffering.
01:42:25.000 It was an athlete that looked amazing, was bouncing around talking to everybody full of energy.
01:42:31.000 Did he need an IV? I'm not a doctor, but he didn't want the doctor to come to administer it.
01:42:37.000 I have to rely on the athlete.
01:42:39.000 It's his body.
01:42:40.000 It's his choice.
01:42:41.000 He said he'd never used one before.
01:42:42.000 He didn't want one.
01:42:43.000 He felt great is what he had said.
01:42:46.000 Perfect.
01:42:47.000 Well, here's a shitload of house full of food and fluid and everything that you need.
01:42:53.000 To consume.
01:42:54.000 So enjoy.
01:42:55.000 Now, that same fight card, I worked with Ronda Rousey.
01:42:58.000 Ronda Rousey didn't use an IV either, and she cut over 10 pounds.
01:43:02.000 She never IVs.
01:43:03.000 She had never used one before.
01:43:04.000 A little nervous to use it.
01:43:05.000 Chose not to use it.
01:43:06.000 Didn't use it.
01:43:07.000 And went out there and looked like Ronda always looks because she's just never had it before.
01:43:13.000 Now, if she had used one, maybe she would have looked even better.
01:43:16.000 Or maybe it would have thrown her off.
01:43:17.000 Well, in all fairness, her fight lasted 10 seconds.
01:43:19.000 I know.
01:43:20.000 When she fought Misha Tate, her fight lasted into the third round, and Misha's a very well-conditioned athlete, one of the better-conditioned female athletes in the game, and Ronda looked amazing, and that was a scrap.
01:43:30.000 Yes, it was.
01:43:30.000 Not at one point did Ronda look like she was at a loss.
01:43:33.000 And she had no IV in that fight.
01:43:34.000 No IV in that fight.
01:43:35.000 And how much did she cut in that fight?
01:43:36.000 She cuts about 10 pounds.
01:43:37.000 She...
01:43:38.000 She fights at 35. Usually she'll get down into the lower 40s just that day before.
01:43:43.000 She gets in the fight week usually between 48 and 50. And she does most of her training in the low 50s.
01:43:48.000 How did BJ get down to 145 pounds?
01:43:51.000 BJ's a guy who fought at 170 because he didn't like making 155. So all of a sudden we see BJ training and getting ready and he looks so thin.
01:44:01.000 What did he do?
01:44:03.000 Back when we filmed The Ultimate Fighter, he was 162 pounds.
01:44:06.000 He was in the low 160s back then.
01:44:08.000 And then they broke off communication with me.
01:44:12.000 After the ultimate fight was over, I didn't hear from anybody from their team, their camp, until the very end of May, which is just a few weeks before fight week, and they were in a bit of crisis mode.
01:44:23.000 Now, I didn't get to...
01:44:27.000 Hawaii to first actually, you know, be a part of the camp and the team until June the 9th, which is less than a month before the fight.
01:44:34.000 When I got there, BJ had said he weighs, I said, wait, what do you weigh, champ?
01:44:39.000 157 pounds, but I went out last night with Dominic Cruz and we had some pizza.
01:44:43.000 I weighed 157 today.
01:44:45.000 And I'm thinking, fuck, why do you need me to be here?
01:44:50.000 You know, the fucking, you know, Dolce Diet dude.
01:44:53.000 If you're 157 pounds, I mean, you're 10 pounds over what the weight class is after eating some bad shit.
01:45:00.000 You're probably closer to 55-54, I'm assuming.
01:45:04.000 So it was kind of, it was an anomaly.
01:45:06.000 It was really an odd situation.
01:45:07.000 How did he lose the weight?
01:45:09.000 You know, just eating a little more, he's paid more attention to his food as he got closer to the fight those last couple weeks I was there.
01:45:16.000 I didn't prepare any meals for him.
01:45:17.000 I stayed in a completely different location.
01:45:19.000 He stayed in one area.
01:45:20.000 I stayed a few miles away in another area.
01:45:22.000 It was a weird situation.
01:45:24.000 It was one of the oddest training camps I had ever been a part of, and I was there for less than two weeks physically in Hawaii and had very little experience.
01:45:32.000 Influence, unfortunately.
01:45:33.000 And I made some very strong suggestions and I made, you know, very strong observations to members of the team of what I saw and what I am accustomed to and what I think would really benefit.
01:45:42.000 What did you have issue with?
01:45:44.000 It was the training, you know, frequency and just the...
01:45:47.000 Training frequency?
01:45:48.000 Yeah, I don't believe it was enough.
01:45:50.000 It wasn't training enough that for all the other athletes that I work with, train much more often.
01:45:55.000 How often was BJ training?
01:45:57.000 Once a day, but not quite every day.
01:46:01.000 And the type of training was less.
01:46:03.000 There was no...
01:46:04.000 And we'll just compare it to Frankie Edgar's team.
01:46:07.000 Now Frankie Edgar has Mark Henry there, who's a world-class striking coach.
01:46:10.000 He has Steve Rivera there, who's one of the top wrestling coaches in the country.
01:46:14.000 And then he has Carlo Mader there, who's one of the top Brazilian jiu-jitsu coaches, practitioners in the world.
01:46:19.000 And then Frankie's got a shitload of UFC-level guys that he's training with on a daily basis.
01:46:25.000 And BJ had none of that.
01:46:27.000 He had a coach who was a nice man who, from what I understand, has no experience in boxing or Coaching, you know, professional athletes, certainly not the world-class UFC MMA level.
01:46:39.000 There was no wrestling coach there.
01:46:41.000 And, you know, the only, the top-level jiu-jitsu guys, of course, BJ, who's very accoladed, but his brothers were there, and it didn't seem like they had any influence as far as technical proficiency or strategy or, you know, game plan or training.
01:46:54.000 And it was, you know, minimal.
01:46:56.000 The only training camps there of, you know, training partners there of value were the two guys I brought in at the last minute, which was Nick Lent and Mursad Bektik.
01:47:04.000 Now Lentz left very, you know, he got there and he left because he didn't want to be there.
01:47:08.000 He didn't feel like it was going to be a good training environment for him.
01:47:11.000 So he left early.
01:47:12.000 And then Mursad stayed, but Mursad's, you know, a young, tough kid.
01:47:16.000 Mursad was actually a great training partner for BJ and really tried to do his best to mimic what Frankie was going to do.
01:47:22.000 It was a tough situation.
01:47:23.000 Is it one of those situations where, in all fairness, BJ, who's a great champion, who's a real MMA legend, is almost too strong of a personality to be coached because he's been so successful and because he's been such a destroyer at points in his career that he has something in his head and who the fuck are you to tell BJ Penn what to do?
01:47:43.000 That could be.
01:47:44.000 That could be.
01:47:45.000 It was very, you know, I don't know why there was no coaches there that were able to truly make influence.
01:47:53.000 The suggestions that I made were, and I made them officially, and they were accepted but not responded or reacted to.
01:48:00.000 And it was just a matter of, you know, this is, that's the direction he's choosing to go, and he's either going to win and look like a fucking genius, or he's going to not win and he's going to make the odd makers look like a genius.
01:48:11.000 In all fairness, there's other issues besides diet.
01:48:15.000 There was also his upright boxing style that confused the shit out of a lot of people.
01:48:19.000 No one understood.
01:48:21.000 He had this narrow stance and he stood completely straight up.
01:48:26.000 It was very odd.
01:48:28.000 And when he was asked about it, he said that it was very effective for him in training and that they came up with it to, somehow or another, reserve energy.
01:48:42.000 So by not lowering his body weight, meaning by not lowering his stance and pushing off of his legs more, by standing up straight, he would extend less energy.
01:48:53.000 It would be less difficult for him to do.
01:48:55.000 I found that incredibly bizarre.
01:48:58.000 And the last thing you should ever be thinking about if you're about to fight Frankie fucking Edgar is conserving energy.
01:49:05.000 I mean, goddamn, you better be ready to go balls to the wall for five fucking rounds because Frankie is going to.
01:49:12.000 Frankie's going to.
01:49:13.000 When we were on the Ultimate Fighter set in October, Frankie was training...
01:49:17.000 He was training twice a day himself, and then he was training twice with the athletes on the show.
01:49:22.000 Frankie was seen at every gym in Las Vegas, training with their best and top guys, and he was surrounded by his coaches the entire time.
01:49:29.000 I mean, that's who Frankie is, and that's who I knew BJ was going to be competing against.
01:49:34.000 BJ was at his best when he was at the, sorry to interrupt you, but was with the Marinovichs.
01:49:38.000 Agreed.
01:49:38.000 Agreed.
01:49:39.000 Murnovich is and Jason Perlow was working on his striking, who was a Bisbank striking coach.
01:49:44.000 And they were able to really put together great performances.
01:49:47.000 Sean Shirk and Diego and Joe Stevenson.
01:49:50.000 That was amazing.
01:49:53.000 I don't know why there was the dramatic shift and change in training protocols and style.
01:49:59.000 To see what he wanted to do, I guess.
01:50:01.000 And that's, he's the boss.
01:50:03.000 Yeah, it's just, it's so hard when you're a fan of a guy like that, where you almost want to just be able to, like, get inside of his head and just, you know, man, if you had, like, a Matt Hume-type coach, someone that you could completely listen to.
01:50:20.000 Yeah.
01:50:20.000 Someone that you trusted and respected enough to run your entire camp.
01:50:23.000 This is the guy who's gonna tell you what your strength and conditioning protocol is.
01:50:27.000 This is the guy who's gonna tell you what kind of sparring you're gonna do.
01:50:30.000 This is the kind of drilling you're gonna do.
01:50:33.000 You're gonna do all this stuff that this guy says.
01:50:35.000 A guy like BJ Penn would almost be unstoppable.
01:50:37.000 Absolutely.
01:50:39.000 It's hard, man.
01:50:40.000 It's really a fascinating sport in that this sport has evolved before our eyes and we've seen the training change and move and adjust.
01:50:52.000 It's one of the reasons why I brought up the idea of whether or not people have unreal expectations because of performance-enhancing drugs because it's very confusing in a lot of ways.
01:51:03.000 Everyone's sort of imitating the successful behavior that they see around them.
01:51:07.000 You know, this guy uses ropes.
01:51:09.000 He swings ropes around.
01:51:10.000 I gotta get some ropes.
01:51:10.000 You know, this guy likes to fucking use a tire and a sledgehammer.
01:51:14.000 Fuck, I need a tire.
01:51:15.000 You know, it's...
01:51:16.000 They're everywhere.
01:51:17.000 Yeah, I mean, that's what we see.
01:51:18.000 We see everyone sort of imitating what's successful and what people have done successfully before them.
01:51:24.000 And then there's guys like Fedor that confuse the shit out of everybody because he's throwing rocks and fucking, you know, throwing punches with little hand weights, and that's basically all you ever see from them.
01:51:33.000 Yeah.
01:51:34.000 You know, it's weird.
01:51:36.000 It's a weird sport.
01:51:37.000 And then it's not like pro football, where, you know, you go back to the Jim Brown era and you change to today.
01:51:44.000 You know, you've seen 50 years of evolution, and it's all sort of culminated in the last couple of decades, and you see science and nutrition.
01:51:52.000 Strength and conditioning protocols have all sort of adjusted, but with MMA, it's not just running.
01:51:58.000 It's not just moving left and moving right.
01:52:01.000 At the same time, you're learning the thousand-plus possibilities of any jujitsu match.
01:52:08.000 You're learning the 500-plus possibilities of any combinations in kickboxing.
01:52:13.000 You know, you're learning so many skills that The combination of wrestling and judo.
01:52:19.000 The combination of jujitsu, sambo, catch wrestling.
01:52:24.000 The combination of...
01:52:24.000 I mean, there's just so many variables.
01:52:26.000 There's so much shit to learn on top of all the strength and conditioning.
01:52:31.000 So it's not as simple as, this guy needs to learn how to squat 500 pounds and fucking push that sled.
01:52:36.000 No, there's a lot of other shit you have to do too, and if you do too much of one and not enough of the other, you won't be at your best.
01:52:43.000 It's this combination of the strength and conditioning and of being a guy who understands all the variables of mixed martial arts as well.
01:52:53.000 Absolutely.
01:52:54.000 It's almost like no one really knows how to do it yet.
01:52:56.000 It's still young.
01:52:58.000 I mean, we're still evolving.
01:52:59.000 You know, as a sport, though people have been fighting for years, never like this, never at this level, never with so much on the line, you know, multi-millions of dollars available now for the top dog.
01:53:09.000 So there's a race, and that's obviously what brings in the PEDs, but it's also what pushes athletes like Ronda Rousey forward to constantly evolve and work on her striking more and find new ways to diet and do her strength and conditioning better and use her mental visualization approaches to really make sure she can be at the top of that cresting wave.
01:53:29.000 So she's not getting stuck behind it.
01:53:31.000 She's really at the forefront.
01:53:33.000 And athletes like that.
01:53:34.000 It's a crazy time when it comes to these things.
01:53:37.000 It really is a crazy time.
01:53:39.000 And the thing about the performance-enhancing drugs, I mean, they exist in all sports, of course, but in MMA, it's almost like there's not enough time in the day to do everything.
01:53:51.000 There's so many different things that you have to be on top of that an athlete almost doesn't have the time or the physical resources.
01:53:58.000 Like, their body can't do all the work that's required.
01:54:01.000 And that's where periodization comes in.
01:54:02.000 That way, you're able to What we're going to be working on for this three-week phase and then we're going to work on something different but synergistic on the next three-week phase and we're slowly going to be the best possible version of ourself at that time when we step into the octagon or step into the competition circle and then it all starts over again and we look to add more tools.
01:54:22.000 One of the other things that BJ's camp said was that you kind of restricted the amount of food that he ate the day of the fight.
01:54:27.000 That's not true.
01:54:28.000 A lot of the things, unfortunately, that said were factually incorrect and I chose not to...
01:54:34.000 This is the first time I'm even commenting about it.
01:54:37.000 I go on the underground every day, and a lot of the people on the underground seemed to have a pretty good take on what the reality of the situation was, and I didn't feel the need to personally comment.
01:54:46.000 What I'm going to say is that he had a house full of food.
01:54:51.000 I personally brought over tons of amazing food that was available.
01:54:56.000 He was two minutes from a Whole Foods that was right down the street from him.
01:55:02.000 You know, there's his house that, you know, shit, 10 gallons of water in it, and a gallon of coconut water, and a running faucet, and there's sea salt everywhere, and, you know, just, you know, a big, I brought a huge vat of the power pasta with grass-fed beef, and, you know...
01:55:17.000 What is that?
01:55:19.000 Power pasta?
01:55:20.000 It's a brown rice pasta, so it's a higher carbohydrate content food.
01:55:25.000 I made two 16-ounce boxes of it, which would basically feed a family of four really fucking big dudes or a family of six or so.
01:55:34.000 Two pounds of grass-fed ground beef was mixed up in there and just I think like two peppers and two red peppers and two green and two red onions and just really high quality nutrients.
01:55:43.000 And a full fucking smoothie, massive handful of kale, handful of spinach, handful of red grapes, handful of blueberries, handful of strawberries.
01:55:51.000 So you don't restrict their calories at all the day of the fight?
01:55:54.000 I don't restrict anything.
01:55:56.000 And again, I had very little...
01:55:59.000 Very little influence.
01:56:01.000 And that's clear.
01:56:02.000 I was more like a chef.
01:56:04.000 I would bring some really delicious food and some things would get eaten and some things wouldn't.
01:56:09.000 It was nothing.
01:56:10.000 I was saying, don't eat this or don't do that.
01:56:12.000 And everything was available.
01:56:13.000 So who was saying that you had restricted his food?
01:56:15.000 Because that was one of the big things that was going around.
01:56:17.000 I know.
01:56:18.000 A lot of it's just internet hearsay and somebody hears things and they create a thread.
01:56:21.000 There was people in his camp.
01:56:22.000 Wasn't it?
01:56:22.000 It wasn't anybody in his camp.
01:56:24.000 It was people that seemed like people from his area or information was fed to them by somebody.
01:56:31.000 And I'm not really going to speculate because it's not worth my time to comment and I don't want to turn into anything bigger.
01:56:38.000 But it was factually completely false and incorrect.
01:56:41.000 And I spoke with very high-ranking members of his team and we've had the factual conversations.
01:56:46.000 We're all in alignment.
01:56:48.000 As to exactly what happens, which is a really nice thing, but it's kind of the public conversation that just continues on, and it's just not correct.
01:56:56.000 So do you think that what happens is after a fighter loses, there's an interesting thing that happened with Travis Brown.
01:57:03.000 Travis Brown did this interview, and I really love Travis.
01:57:06.000 I think he's an awesome guy.
01:57:07.000 I think he's a great fighter, but he's also super honest, which I thought was really cool.
01:57:11.000 And he said that after he lost to Fabrizio Verdum, he goes, I went through the whole process.
01:57:17.000 I blamed myself.
01:57:19.000 I blamed everybody around me.
01:57:21.000 I took turns blaming people.
01:57:23.000 He goes, I fucking cried.
01:57:25.000 I did the whole deal.
01:57:26.000 And then I figured out, all right, what do I need to work on?
01:57:29.000 What do I need to change?
01:57:30.000 What do I need to adjust?
01:57:32.000 He's working with Edmund, Rhonda's trainer, on his striking and trying to tone things up and change some things and learn some new skills and learn some new variables that he could add to his fight game.
01:57:43.000 But what I love about the fact that he was honest about how after the fight there's this instinct to sort of blame.
01:57:51.000 Blame himself, blame others, rotate, you know, no, fuck it, it was everybody else's fault.
01:57:56.000 It wasn't me.
01:57:57.000 And after the BJ fight, I kept hearing all this shit about, you know, blaming Mike Dolce.
01:58:04.000 I'm like, man, how much fucking impact can a guy who's telling you what to eat have on how you fight?
01:58:10.000 Because what I saw in that cage was a guy getting overwhelmed by a guy with a fucking incredible gas tank with a better strategy.
01:58:19.000 By the number two guy in the world who has two wins over him previously.
01:58:25.000 So, you know, there's just bad matchups.
01:58:27.000 Right.
01:58:28.000 And maybe that was one of it.
01:58:29.000 Frankie's been more active.
01:58:30.000 He was the number two guy in the world at the time.
01:58:32.000 BJ was coming off of a massive layoff.
01:58:34.000 And we knew it was a very uphill battle.
01:58:36.000 I was as shocked...
01:58:38.000 I mean, I was really hurt when I heard the first comment and I saw...
01:58:42.000 We're good to go.
01:59:00.000 And it was just uncalled for.
01:59:02.000 It was unfair.
01:59:03.000 And I kept my mouth shut because I wanted to be a professional.
01:59:06.000 And I didn't want to say anything because BJ's got a lot of fans.
01:59:09.000 I'm a fucking huge fan of the kid.
01:59:10.000 I still am a huge fan of the kid.
01:59:12.000 And I understand because I've fought before.
01:59:13.000 I've lost before.
01:59:14.000 And I've been hurt before.
01:59:15.000 And I've wanted to blame.
01:59:16.000 And I still could blame.
01:59:17.000 But what is that going to get?
01:59:20.000 And with my, you know, defend myself here for a second...
01:59:23.000 I know what I did, and I think I was probably one of the only bright positives with true world-class experience that was around him.
01:59:33.000 I didn't have to be a part of that camp.
01:59:35.000 Is that a part of, just because he's isolated, he's on Hilo, you know, on Big Island?
01:59:39.000 It was very difficult, man.
01:59:40.000 It was very, very difficult.
01:59:41.000 When you're the most famous fucking person, and you've got people showing up at your house, knocking on your door to get an autograph...
01:59:47.000 It was difficult.
01:59:49.000 It was a very hard situation.
01:59:52.000 He has people knocking on his door?
01:59:53.000 Yeah.
01:59:54.000 Trying to get autographs?
01:59:55.000 Yeah.
01:59:55.000 I mean, I feel bad for the guy that's, you know?
01:59:58.000 Luckily, there's not that many people.
01:59:59.000 After a couple hours, you're done.
02:00:01.000 You're done.
02:00:01.000 You get the whole town.
02:00:02.000 Anywhere he goes, people are honking the horns at him.
02:00:05.000 He's a superstar.
02:00:07.000 Here he's a superstar.
02:00:08.000 There, he's like the king over there.
02:00:11.000 And it was hard for a lot of different reasons.
02:00:14.000 But to see the things said and basically the way that they were, man, you look at the fight, you look at what happened.
02:00:21.000 That had nothing to do with food.
02:00:23.000 It had nothing to do with body weight.
02:00:24.000 We posted a video of him two days before Wayne's.
02:00:26.000 He woke up at 148, fully fed, fully hydrated, saying it's the best he fucking felt in his entire life.
02:00:33.000 I understand what you're saying.
02:00:35.000 I found it incredibly fascinating that you said the athletes don't work out at all the week of.
02:00:41.000 And one of the reasons why is because I happened to be at Uriah Faber's gym this past weekend when TJ fought and when Danny Castillo fought.
02:00:53.000 And when I got there, Danny Castillo was working out the day of the fight.
02:00:58.000 He was hitting mitts with Dwayne.
02:01:00.000 And, you know, they put in, like, a good fucking 20-minute workout.
02:01:04.000 I mean, he was hitting mitts, man.
02:01:07.000 I mean, he wasn't just, he wasn't going, like, 10% speed, like, just moving his body around.
02:01:13.000 He was working out.
02:01:14.000 Footwork drills, you know, combination.
02:01:16.000 He looked great.
02:01:17.000 Yeah.
02:01:18.000 And I was kind of shocked, and I asked him why, and he said, well, when he rehydrated, he felt a little bloated, but he always does that.
02:01:24.000 He always gets in a workout.
02:01:26.000 This was after weigh-ins when he rehydrated?
02:01:28.000 Yeah, after weigh-ins, rehydrated, then the day of the fight.
02:01:32.000 He worked out the day of the fight.
02:01:34.000 And I do agree with something along those lines.
02:01:37.000 Day of the fight, to get the fluids moving, every athlete's a little bit different.
02:01:40.000 We do that with Nick Lentz, and he's the one who gave me the fucking black eye on Friday before Charles canceled the fight.
02:01:46.000 We put him through usually, you know, abbreviated three rounds just to get him moving and make him feel good again.
02:01:53.000 I approach, and a lot of the athletes I work with, we approach fight day like another fucking day.
02:01:59.000 It's like a hard sparring day.
02:02:01.000 So, oh, I see what you're saying.
02:02:03.000 So you treat it like as if he's just going to do some hard sparring that day.
02:02:07.000 So when you have him work out to get the fluids moving, as it were, what's the idea behind that?
02:02:13.000 Is that like the rehydration process, the IV and everything like that?
02:02:17.000 You want everything moving through the body?
02:02:19.000 We have to make sure everything's working properly so there's no surprises, but we're not overworking the athlete.
02:02:24.000 We're warming them up and then we're just cooling them right back down again, making them...
02:02:28.000 A big part of it is also building confidence because they go through the weight cut process and sometimes you feel a little shitty and you're like, fuck, do I still have it?
02:02:36.000 I felt like, you know, shit yesterday.
02:02:37.000 I felt weak yesterday.
02:02:38.000 God, he looked so big yesterday.
02:02:39.000 And you get in there and they feel, you know, obviously Nick weighs in at 46 and he was probably 46, closer to, you know, 65 the very next morning and felt like a fucking machine.
02:02:50.000 And he left that room with a smile on his face like, I'm going to fucking kill this dude.
02:02:54.000 What do you do when it comes to guys like heavyweights?
02:02:58.000 Most heavyweights, in my opinion, I'm not saying that they should cut weight, but they should all be fighting somewhere between 10 and 12% body fat.
02:03:05.000 The chubby heavyweights with the fat belly, that's a lazy athlete.
02:03:08.000 What about Fedor?
02:03:10.000 Fedor could have been better, I believe.
02:03:12.000 What?
02:03:12.000 He could have been.
02:03:13.000 God forbid he could have been better.
02:03:15.000 What about Kane?
02:03:16.000 Kane looks a little fat.
02:03:17.000 I know.
02:03:17.000 But he's a monster.
02:03:18.000 Look at Daniel Cormier.
02:03:21.000 These guys, just because you compete in an unlimited weight class or nearly unlimited weight class, doesn't mean you can have an unlimited body weight.
02:03:28.000 What's the proper body weight for performance?
02:03:31.000 For most athletes, it's somewhere between 8 to 12 percent.
02:03:34.000 Is there a proper body weight for a heavyweight as far as like when you get too heavy, you're dealing with gravity, you're dealing with mass that needs to have blood pumped through it?
02:03:42.000 Because isn't the one variable that's not very different in people the size of your actual heart?
02:03:49.000 That the heart tends to be similar in size, slight variables, more similar in size.
02:03:54.000 So like a guy like Bigfoot Silva, or Brock Lesnar is a better example, because Bigfoot actually has gigantism, he has a real issue.
02:04:01.000 But Brock Lesnar, an enormous giant, and then a guy like, say, Chris Cariasso, who's fighting for the flyweight title.
02:04:08.000 Their heart is probably way more similar in size than any other part of their body.
02:04:13.000 I would agree with that.
02:04:14.000 So maybe the cock.
02:04:14.000 I don't know about that.
02:04:15.000 I'd just throw that out there for some reason.
02:04:16.000 Or Chris is bigger, probably.
02:04:17.000 Maybe he's got a giant hog.
02:04:19.000 Kid's got balls.
02:04:20.000 I'll tell you that.
02:04:23.000 Tough guy, Chris Cariasso.
02:04:24.000 Interesting fight coming up.
02:04:26.000 But my point being, is there a number where a heavyweight shouldn't...
02:04:31.000 A lot of people think the most effective weight is somewhere around 240. For a heavyweight?
02:04:36.000 And...
02:04:37.000 I agree.
02:04:38.000 I think they think that because that's what Kane is.
02:04:40.000 That's what Kane is, but Kane eating properly, and he's the fucking dominant champion of the world, so I'm not saying he should do anything, but there's no reason why any professional athlete should be walking around with excess non-functional weight.
02:04:55.000 And a lot of what's floating around Kane's midsection are athletes like Kane, and he's one of the better conditioned, but without that 8, 10, 12, 16 additional pounds, how much faster would he be?
02:05:07.000 Force production would probably be very similar, unless he really sits down on a single punch or one single blast, but he'd probably be faster, he'd probably be more agile, he'd be more capable of scrambling, he'd be able to do a few more things with no loss in strength.
02:05:23.000 So you think if he got down to about 230 and lowered his body fat to about 10%, he'd be even better than the best heavyweight ever?
02:05:29.000 I believe so.
02:05:29.000 I mean, I don't know if Kane's the best heavyweight ever, but in my opinion, it's between him and Fedor.
02:05:34.000 There's two best heavyweights of all time, in my mind, and they're Kane and Fedor.
02:05:38.000 Look at Tyson.
02:05:39.000 Add 20 pounds of fat to Tyson.
02:05:41.000 What happens to Mike Tyson?
02:05:42.000 We're good to go.
02:06:03.000 Everybody looks like a fucking monster, you know, in boxing.
02:06:05.000 We're first five minutes in MMA, first round.
02:06:08.000 Everybody can move really quick.
02:06:09.000 But then as time goes on, that weight starts, gravity starts to pull on you.
02:06:13.000 But okay, in response to that, the two guys that we were talking about, both Kane and Fedor, are both guys that had high body fat who are known for their high output and their long fights with incredible endurance.
02:06:26.000 And they could have been better.
02:06:27.000 Is that really true, though?
02:06:28.000 I believe so.
02:06:29.000 Is it possible that carrying around a certain amount of fat aids your endurance?
02:06:34.000 Is that possible?
02:06:35.000 Absolutely.
02:06:36.000 But what would that line be?
02:06:38.000 Just me, visually, I'm not in their camps, I don't know, so we're just kind of throwing shit at the wall right now.
02:06:43.000 I say, and all the athletes just experience, we're going to throw some bro science out there right now, 8-12% body fat.
02:06:49.000 For the heavyweights, closer to 12%, not down to 8%.
02:06:52.000 For the lighter guys, 8% or so.
02:06:55.000 Makes more sense.
02:06:56.000 When Fedor was at his prime, what do you think his body fat was?
02:07:00.000 He held a lot of fat in his belly, but there's some fights where you could see veins running through his shoulders and arms.
02:07:05.000 He had rather skinny legs, so he was kind of ass-heavy and stomach-oblique heavy, and that's where he was carrying a lot of the weight.
02:07:13.000 What was it?
02:07:14.000 Probably 14 to 16. Did you ever talk to him?
02:07:19.000 Did you ever find out what his diet was or anything?
02:07:20.000 No, I would love to.
02:07:21.000 I'd fly to fucking Russia to find out what's going on with that guy.
02:07:25.000 I think he's just a tough prick.
02:07:27.000 Well, certainly the skill involved.
02:07:29.000 I mean, he had tremendous judo, sambo skills.
02:07:32.000 Yeah, I know what you're saying.
02:07:33.000 I mean, without a doubt, he had incredible mental toughness, and his ability to perform under pressure was fantastic.
02:07:42.000 There was a lot going on there.
02:07:43.000 But I would also like to know what his actual training protocol was.
02:07:47.000 You got to see those highlights when he did Strikeforce of him working out and stuff.
02:07:52.000 But you don't know what the fuck that is.
02:07:54.000 A lot of times guys would just tell you, alright, hit the bag for our promo.
02:07:58.000 And you'd have them fucking throw casting punches at the bag.
02:08:01.000 You don't really know.
02:08:02.000 What is he actually doing?
02:08:03.000 What's his actual training?
02:08:05.000 And most of that stuff on TV, it's mostly fake.
02:08:07.000 Most of the athletes, they don't run with the fucking parachutes.
02:08:10.000 They don't do a lot of that type of training.
02:08:14.000 I call it sexy training.
02:08:14.000 It looks awesome on TV, but that's not really what they're doing on the daily.
02:08:18.000 And the higher level athletes really train very basics.
02:08:22.000 They focus on the basics.
02:08:23.000 They get really good at the fucking basics and they start adding some higher level technique.
02:08:27.000 Same thing on the strength and conditioning side.
02:08:29.000 Well, Matt Brown does a lot of really wild shit, man.
02:08:31.000 He does a lot of really wild strength and conditioning shit.
02:08:34.000 Do you work with him at all?
02:08:35.000 The Immortal Brown?
02:08:35.000 Yeah.
02:08:36.000 No, I don't, unfortunately.
02:08:37.000 We've played with it, and we were cast members on The Ultimate Fighter years ago.
02:08:40.000 We're still buddies, but I haven't worked with him specifically.
02:08:42.000 I'd love to down the road, though.
02:08:43.000 I think that'd be a fun part of my career.
02:08:44.000 Yeah, he's a guy who I've seen some of his workouts.
02:08:47.000 They're fucking brutal.
02:08:48.000 He does a lot of really unorthodox stuff.
02:08:50.000 A lot of crazy lifts, deadlifts, and all kinds of things.
02:08:53.000 Obviously, a very thin guy, but obviously very physically strong.
02:08:58.000 We've trained together, you know, even after the show.
02:09:00.000 Matt's strong as hell.
02:09:01.000 He's a lot stronger than he looks.
02:09:04.000 He looks like that thin, lean guy.
02:09:05.000 He's fucking strong.
02:09:07.000 When he gets his hands on you, he's like, granted.
02:09:09.000 Yeah.
02:09:10.000 Yeah, I mean, as we're talking about this and talking about different styles and different people's training, it is interesting that there's no one answer.
02:09:20.000 Like, this is what you have to do.
02:09:22.000 In order to do X, you have to start out with Y and put in W. There's no answer, right?
02:09:30.000 It's like everybody has to figure out what works well for them.
02:09:32.000 And when you see guys like readjust and rebound and try to reassess their career, like Overeem is a perfect example.
02:09:42.000 Overeem is now at Jackson's and he just fought against Ben Rothwell and got knocked out in the first round.
02:09:48.000 Looked great for a little bit until he got clipped.
02:09:50.000 Yeah.
02:09:51.000 But, you know, he was doing things a lot differently.
02:09:53.000 Throwing those oblique kicks to the knee, which a lot of people don't like.
02:09:58.000 They're upset about that.
02:09:59.000 I don't like those either.
02:10:00.000 Yeah.
02:10:01.000 It's a weird technique.
02:10:02.000 Because you're not supposed to attack the knee itself, right?
02:10:05.000 Isn't that the story?
02:10:06.000 That's what the rule is.
02:10:07.000 I think it's like within an inch or two of the knee, depending.
02:10:09.000 I forget the exact rule now.
02:10:11.000 But nobody calls you on it.
02:10:12.000 I haven't seen it.
02:10:13.000 If you throw an oblique kick an inch over the knee, no one's going to say, hey, don't attack the knee.
02:10:17.000 Nope.
02:10:17.000 Especially when you're lying on your back and you're throwing up kicks.
02:10:20.000 People throw them right at the knees and no one says a word.
02:10:24.000 Like when Funaki and Hicks and Gracie fought.
02:10:28.000 Remember that?
02:10:29.000 Hicks and fucking blasted them right in the knees off of his back.
02:10:33.000 It's interesting, man.
02:10:35.000 You look at Eddie's style of jiu-jitsu versus the Gracie style, or bang Muay Thai versus Duke Rufus.
02:10:44.000 It's like different philosophies, different approaches, but they all fucking work really well.
02:10:50.000 And if you speak with Dwayne, he's going to say, no, this is the system.
02:10:54.000 And you're going to say, well, he's got it.
02:10:56.000 And then you watch Pettis fight, and you're like, No, Duke Rufus has got his own system.
02:11:00.000 He's got his own, and that shit fucking works out.
02:11:02.000 Fucking works real good.
02:11:03.000 Strength and conditioning, I think, is very similar, and it's...
02:11:06.000 The athlete is really going to gravitate towards what suits them, but it's all...
02:11:12.000 You know, like I said, the athlete changes, which is why my...
02:11:14.000 We have the principles, so the principles don't change.
02:11:17.000 You know, Dwayne, let's say, throw a punch with your right hand, left hand has to be blocking.
02:11:20.000 I think Duke would say the same thing.
02:11:22.000 But the individual application, that's where it changes on...
02:11:26.000 The individual basis per athlete, per time they compete, or on different athletes.
02:11:31.000 So the principles are always the same, but we always have to evolve the application.
02:11:34.000 I'm sure just like Eddie's doing every night he goes in the gym, he's like, oh shit, I saw this fucking white belt do something that just totally killed the black belt's move, what?
02:11:42.000 Let me fucking try that.
02:11:43.000 Yeah, there's variables in jiu-jitsu that don't exist in striking, but there's also striking variables that don't exist in jiu-jitsu.
02:11:49.000 Like the idea of throwing things at like a 50 or 60% output instead of 100% with each technique.
02:11:56.000 Yeah.
02:11:56.000 Whereas some guys, like Jeremy Stevens, perfect example.
02:11:59.000 Jeremy Stevens is a fucking murderer.
02:12:01.000 He throws everything designed to knock your face into the dirt.
02:12:04.000 I mean, everything he throws is 100% on it.
02:12:06.000 And he just works hard to be able to do that.
02:12:08.000 But his volume is much lower than, say, a guy like Nick Diaz.
02:12:12.000 Yeah.
02:12:12.000 Nick Diaz will come at you and he'll throw many punches at 50-60% and put it on you and then throw some hundreds in there.
02:12:20.000 Dig to the body with a hundred.
02:12:22.000 Go upstairs with a hundred and then more.
02:12:24.000 50-50-50-50.
02:12:25.000 And he just puts volume on you.
02:12:27.000 So you don't see that in jiu-jitsu.
02:12:29.000 You very rarely see guys hit moves at less than 100%.
02:12:33.000 When you're trying to guillotine someone, you don't try to guillotine them at 50%.
02:12:37.000 You lock that bitch up, you're squeezing with everything you've got.
02:12:40.000 So it's a fascinating thing, the different approaches for different body styles, because some guys also, they don't have...
02:12:48.000 Like Dominic Cruz, great fighter, great athlete, great champion, does not have that sort of one-punch Jeremy Stevens power.
02:12:56.000 He just doesn't possess it.
02:12:57.000 He doesn't have the body for it.
02:12:58.000 This is what the universe has given him.
02:13:02.000 He's a high-volume, high-output, high-discipline...
02:13:05.000 Excellent condition.
02:13:06.000 That's important.
02:13:08.000 It's imperative for him to be able to put on the kind of performances that he puts on.
02:13:12.000 Whereas some guys just go out there and try to Paul Daly it.
02:13:15.000 Excellent technique, but everything's designed to murder you.
02:13:18.000 Absolutely.
02:13:20.000 It's an interesting growth and evolution.
02:13:31.000 We're good to go.
02:13:42.000 But a little slower, let's say, you know, two, three years from now, there's some fucking kid in the middle of nowhere that's going to come out.
02:13:48.000 I can't imagine that, but I know you're right.
02:13:50.000 It's going to happen, right?
02:13:50.000 Remember when GSP came out?
02:13:51.000 And we were all like, God damn, this dude is like an Olympic gymnast.
02:13:54.000 Look at what he's doing.
02:13:55.000 Yeah.
02:13:56.000 And then, you know, you have a guy like Dillashaw coming out, moving the way he does, putting his wrestling together, all the feints that he's doing, hitting with power, you know, kind of like what you were saying about Diaz, where they're able to off-speed their punches and their strikes and really change angles.
02:14:10.000 That's fantastic.
02:14:10.000 Awesome stuff.
02:14:11.000 Yeah, and you've seen the level of the wrestlers and athletes are just coming in.
02:14:15.000 They're just off the chain, too.
02:14:16.000 Like, guys like Hendrix.
02:14:18.000 Yeah.
02:14:18.000 You know, guys like Cormier.
02:14:19.000 Just like when Cormier fought Henderson.
02:14:22.000 You're like, what the fuck?
02:14:23.000 That's insane.
02:14:23.000 Who the hell's ever done that to Dan Henderson?
02:14:25.000 Yeah.
02:14:25.000 Cormier's got him flying through the air.
02:14:27.000 He's hitting him with trips as he's moving back.
02:14:29.000 He's doing, like, a lot of crazy shit that you very rarely see.
02:14:31.000 That's when...
02:14:33.000 I think I realized how high-level Cormier really is.
02:14:37.000 Like you said, no one's ever done that to Dan.
02:14:40.000 Dan's lost a couple fights, but no one's ever been able to do that to Dan fucking Anderson before.
02:14:44.000 That's also, interestingly enough, Dan off testosterone replacement.
02:14:48.000 He's one of the first guys that we've seen compete on and now off.
02:14:52.000 And he had competed off before against Rashad Evans, lost a decision against Rashad Evans, a very close fight, right?
02:15:00.000 And that was because they were fighting in Winnipeg, and Winnipeg's Athletic Commission didn't...
02:15:04.000 That's right.
02:15:05.000 But I believe Dan when he says that he takes very little.
02:15:08.000 I believe him.
02:15:09.000 I believe Dan too.
02:15:10.000 Yeah, I mean, who's on it?
02:15:11.000 But a lot of these guys also, one of the reasons why they test low is because they're overtraining.
02:15:17.000 Absolutely.
02:15:18.000 And that's something that people need to take into consideration when they discuss training protocols is that what's happening with a lot of fighters is they're going through the same sort of thing that they went through in wrestling practice.
02:15:30.000 And what wrestling practice is fantastic for is developing mental toughness.
02:15:35.000 I believe there are no tougher athletes in the world than someone who goes through high-level wrestling camps.
02:15:41.000 Someone who goes through Purdue, like a John Fitch.
02:15:44.000 When you go through these fucking camps, you go through Iowa, you go through these high-level wrestling camps, amateur wrestling, college wrestling camps, those people are fucking animals.
02:15:54.000 Yes, sir.
02:15:55.000 They have a level of mental toughness that if you don't understand it, they're going to wake up 15 minutes earlier than anybody else because they know that no one else is awake.
02:16:03.000 They're going to run an extra mile because they know no one else is going to run it.
02:16:07.000 They're going to do all these different things because they pride themselves in being uncomfortable and in grinding it out.
02:16:13.000 And there's good in that, but there's also bad in it.
02:16:16.000 And the bad in it is the physiological reality of the body's ability to recuperate.
02:16:21.000 And that if you tested any of these high-level professional wrestlers, or amateur wrestlers rather, at their highest level, when they're going through camps, I guarantee you a lot of them are going to have low testosterone.
02:16:32.000 Absolutely, I would agree.
02:16:33.000 And it's just because their body's being broken down and it's just the sheer dogged determination of their own mind that allows them to get up every morning and keep doing it.
02:16:42.000 Yeah, look at Hendrix.
02:16:44.000 He, when he fought Robbie, fractured shin, torn bicep.
02:16:48.000 He had a fractured shin too?
02:16:50.000 Fractured shin.
02:16:51.000 During the fight or from the fight?
02:16:53.000 From training.
02:16:55.000 In training, he was fractured chin, torn by his, partially torn by his, that would tore all the way during the fight, and didn't even blink.
02:17:04.000 Didn't complain one time.
02:17:06.000 The only way I found out was just kind of like in passing.
02:17:09.000 He was just joking about it.
02:17:11.000 Any other athlete, most of the other athletes, they're canceling that fight.
02:17:15.000 They're pushing it back three months, six months.
02:17:17.000 And then Johnny goes out there and is able to get a win.
02:17:21.000 Because of that mental toughness.
02:17:23.000 And that's one of the things that makes Johnny so fucking great.
02:17:25.000 Is that physically, I mean, he's a really strong dude, but he's not tall.
02:17:30.000 He's not long.
02:17:31.000 He's got fast hands.
02:17:33.000 You know, he is fast.
02:17:33.000 But his feet aren't very fast.
02:17:35.000 He doesn't cut angles or move his head movement too well.
02:17:38.000 It's his brain.
02:17:39.000 It's his mentality.
02:17:40.000 He's got that championship mindset that's just been ground into him through a whole lifetime of wrestling.
02:17:46.000 Also, his dad's a fucking psycho.
02:17:48.000 His dad's fucking awesome.
02:17:49.000 You know, it's funny.
02:17:51.000 Well, he had two options, or three options.
02:17:54.000 Wrestling, wrestling, or wrestling.
02:17:58.000 That's awesome.
02:17:59.000 Well, you could wrestle, or you could wrestle, or you could wrestle.
02:18:02.000 And, you know, like how he made him do, you know, push-ups and sit-ups and chin-ups and shit when he was a little boy.
02:18:08.000 He was doing fucking 500 push-ups.
02:18:10.000 I mean, he just had that kid as a youngster with a very high tolerance to work and just this drive.
02:18:18.000 He pushed him so that everything else would be easy.
02:18:20.000 I mean, he made it so everything at home, all the training he did, all the wrestling practices were so fucking hard that everything else would be easy.
02:18:27.000 Yeah.
02:18:27.000 And look at him.
02:18:28.000 UFC fucking middle welterweight champion.
02:18:31.000 And should have been the first time he fought GSP. Agreed.
02:18:34.000 In my opinion.
02:18:35.000 I mean, he got the title with the Robbie Lawler fight, but I thought he beat GSP. And the only people that disagree that I've talked to were people that were in that Henzo Gracie camp that were a little bit biased and thought that George won round one, which I didn't understand.
02:18:50.000 I think damage is more important than anything, and I think Johnny, without a doubt, did more damage in that fight.
02:18:56.000 They pointed to the guillotine attempt in the first round, but I didn't think that was a successful attempt.
02:19:02.000 I thought it was never close.
02:19:04.000 Did you see Scoggins vs.
02:19:07.000 John Moraga this last fight?
02:19:09.000 The first guillotine was very close.
02:19:11.000 The second guillotine locked it up.
02:19:13.000 George never had a guillotine like that.
02:19:15.000 You know what I'm saying?
02:19:16.000 It wasn't like one of those where it was like Scoggins barely got out of that first guillotine where Moraga locked it up.
02:19:22.000 But he was in deep shit.
02:19:24.000 And then he caught him with the second one.
02:19:26.000 That's not the kind of guillotine that Hendricks was caught in in that first round.
02:19:30.000 So I didn't understand anybody saying that they thought that GSP won.
02:19:33.000 A little biased, I think.
02:19:34.000 Sure.
02:19:35.000 But I'm biased towards Hendricks, and I'll admit that.
02:19:37.000 But watching and trying to be impartial, I think Hendricks clearly won.
02:19:41.000 And I believe George and some of his team, I think they know.
02:19:44.000 Because the two athletes, when they walk out...
02:19:46.000 You know, if you kind of won or lost.
02:19:48.000 And I think that won, and it felt their mood, their energy, and just the way that they, you know, we interacted afterwards.
02:19:54.000 Very professional, respectful.
02:19:56.000 But I think they knew that Johnny had won that fight, truly.
02:19:59.000 How do you tell a fighter to stop?
02:20:03.000 Is there a time where a fighter should be told to stop?
02:20:07.000 Because if George was my friend...
02:20:09.000 I would tell George to stop.
02:20:11.000 And the reason why I would tell George to stop is because we did some sort of a fight metric thing where we calculated all the times he'd been hit inside the octagon.
02:20:18.000 And he had been hit in the head 880-something times over the course of his UFC career.
02:20:23.000 And I'm like, what's the number where a guy can walk?
02:20:27.000 Because if you talk to George now, he's lucid.
02:20:29.000 He speaks well.
02:20:30.000 But I know that he was having migraines.
02:20:33.000 I know that he was having memory issues.
02:20:39.000 And I think there's only a certain amount of times a guy can fight.
02:20:43.000 There's only a certain amount of blows a guy can take.
02:20:45.000 And George, if he stopped now, could he have another fight?
02:20:48.000 Yeah.
02:20:49.000 Yeah, he definitely could.
02:20:50.000 Could he come back and be great?
02:20:52.000 Very possibly, but could he come back and take some damage that five years from now we're gonna see a much compromised George and that's possible as well, right?
02:21:01.000 Probably and I've had this conversation with athletes before and it's it's difficult and it's emotional and And it's, you know, it's in their best interest and sometimes, you know, they've gotten mad, but they know it's out of love and care and concern.
02:21:17.000 And it's, there's a risk to reward.
02:21:19.000 And, you know, anytime an athlete, whether you're an amateur or you're making millions of dollars, there's a risk.
02:21:23.000 And what is the reward?
02:21:24.000 Is it some sort of personal challenge?
02:21:26.000 Are you trying to scare away a demon?
02:21:27.000 Are you trying to provide a college education for your daughter?
02:21:31.000 These are things that they get put on the scale and they become intellectual conversations to have.
02:21:35.000 And then you say, all right, is this worth the risk?
02:21:37.000 But a guy like GSPE, I mean, he's proven everything.
02:21:41.000 He's a legend.
02:21:42.000 Yeah, yeah, without a doubt.
02:21:44.000 He really has proven everything he can prove.
02:21:46.000 I mean, he can come back and beat other fighters, but is he ever going to elevate the status of his legend?
02:21:51.000 He's one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest welterweight of all.
02:21:55.000 It's him and Matt Hughes.
02:21:56.000 Those are the two greatest welterweights of all time.
02:21:59.000 And, you know, Matt is from a slightly different era.
02:22:01.000 Their eras overlap, but, you know, in my opinion, Matt, it was a game changer.
02:22:07.000 So I think he still goes down as possibly, you know, it's in the debate for who's the greatest.
02:22:11.000 Sure.
02:22:12.000 But George, he's not going to ever elevate where he's at.
02:22:16.000 Where he's at is a fucking all-time legend.
02:22:19.000 Yeah.
02:22:20.000 He's more of an all-time legend.
02:22:21.000 I'll have one more fight, he'll be another all-time legend.
02:22:23.000 No, he's an all-time legend.
02:22:24.000 There you go.
02:22:25.000 I mean, as far as I know, he's very wealthy.
02:22:28.000 I know he had to give a lot of money up to his fucking former manager, though.
02:22:31.000 Ouch.
02:22:31.000 Yeah.
02:22:31.000 And there's a lot of grossness involved in that, man.
02:22:34.000 Yeah.
02:22:34.000 I've spoken about managers recently and it kind of got spun the wrong way.
02:22:39.000 I don't know if you heard anything.
02:22:39.000 No.
02:22:40.000 What'd you say?
02:22:41.000 I'm talking to Ariel.
02:22:42.000 I said, and the quote, so I hope nobody out there is going to quote this out of context, was athletes need to get rid of their, need to fire their managers and hire attorneys.
02:22:52.000 And it wasn't meant to be that every athlete needs to get rid of the manager because I said there's some great managers out there.
02:22:57.000 But there's some managers out there that they have their hand too deep inside the athlete's pocket where the athlete can't, We're good to go.
02:23:10.000 We're good to go.
02:23:27.000 We're good to go.
02:23:37.000 We're good to go.
02:23:52.000 Right.
02:24:19.000 And he hires an attorney to come in and do the contract review and such on a per hour basis or a per contract basis.
02:24:24.000 He speaks very openly about this.
02:24:26.000 He's one of the guys who's in the UFC and he's one of the higher paid athletes out there doing it.
02:24:30.000 Well, you know, obviously, I love the UFC. Obviously, it's a huge...
02:24:38.000 It's a huge honor for me to call the fights and to be a part of the organization, but I think the only way that the UFC is ever going to satisfy the athletes, I mean, the only way the athletes are ever going to be in a situation where they're completely,
02:24:57.000 totally happy with what they get paid is if they're at the top of the heap.
02:25:01.000 Yeah.
02:25:01.000 I mean, when people compare it to Floyd Mayweather, like, Floyd Mayweather made X amount of money.
02:25:05.000 Do you know how many fucking people are Floyd Mayweather?
02:25:08.000 One.
02:25:08.000 It's Floyd Mayweather.
02:25:10.000 Period.
02:25:10.000 And everybody else who fights him, they take a drastically reduced purse and they're super lucky that they get that.
02:25:15.000 Yeah.
02:25:15.000 Like whatever Maidana got for that first fight, a million bucks or something like that.
02:25:18.000 Biggest payday of his career.
02:25:19.000 Yeah.
02:25:20.000 And by the way, that's not what GSP get for fights.
02:25:22.000 GSP got a lot more money than that.
02:25:24.000 Yeah.
02:25:25.000 And GSP, as big as he was, is never the draw that Floyd Mayweather is.
02:25:30.000 Floyd Mayweather is a draw, like, internationally, nationally.
02:25:34.000 He's gigantic.
02:25:35.000 Yeah.
02:25:36.000 And he's also the promoter.
02:25:38.000 I mean, he's got a lot of shit going on.
02:25:40.000 Unless a fighter becomes a part of a promotion, I mean, it's just not the same thing.
02:25:46.000 You know, if the UFC, like when Oscar De La Hoya was Golden Boy Productions and when he was fighting as well and making insane amounts of money in that, again, there's only one Oscar De La Hoya.
02:25:58.000 And there's also, the UFC, like it or not, and I love it, they're essentially the number one game in town.
02:26:06.000 And it's not like there's a close number two.
02:26:09.000 Whereas, Bob Arum, Golden Boy, you know, there's all these different promotions.
02:26:14.000 The money team, there's a lot of different promotions when it comes to promoting fights.
02:26:20.000 Whereas the UFC is like, there's Bellator.
02:26:23.000 You know, Bellator's not bad.
02:26:25.000 They're on Spike TV. They're doing real good.
02:26:27.000 You know, I'm a big fan of Scott Coker.
02:26:29.000 I'm a big fan of Spike TV. But the reality is there's a goddamn huge...
02:26:33.000 Who the fuck is the UFC heavyweight champion?
02:26:35.000 Cain Velasquez.
02:26:36.000 Who's the Bellator heavyweight champion?
02:26:38.000 I don't even know who he is.
02:26:40.000 I don't even know either, yeah.
02:26:40.000 I don't know who it is.
02:26:41.000 I know...
02:26:42.000 Was it used to be Cole Conrad?
02:26:44.000 Was he...
02:26:44.000 No, maybe not even, was he?
02:26:45.000 He was, but he retired because there was no money.
02:26:47.000 Ben Askren used to be the welterweight champion.
02:26:49.000 Who's the welterweight champion now?
02:26:52.000 No idea.
02:26:53.000 Is it Lima?
02:26:54.000 Is it Douglas Lima?
02:26:55.000 I couldn't tell you, man.
02:26:56.000 He's world-class.
02:26:57.000 I think he won on leg kicks, right?
02:26:58.000 Was he the one?
02:26:59.000 Maybe he did.
02:27:00.000 I mean, I know he wins a lot.
02:27:01.000 He's world-class.
02:27:02.000 Lima could compete, in my opinion, and everyone else in the world.
02:27:05.000 But Ben Askren kind of ragdolled him.
02:27:08.000 And Ben Askren now is fighting for 1FC. So it's like, the difference...
02:27:12.000 Okay, there's Schlamenko.
02:27:13.000 He's the middleweight champion.
02:27:14.000 But someone from his fucking camp talked him into fighting Tito Ortiz.
02:27:19.000 Hope he got paid for that.
02:27:20.000 That was like, I mean, it's like a grown man fighting a guy who is in high school.
02:27:26.000 That's what it looked like.
02:27:27.000 I mean, Tito was fucking enormous in that fight.
02:27:30.000 Flamenco's probably truly a welterweight inside the UFC, right?
02:27:33.000 Yeah, in my opinion.
02:27:35.000 And somehow or another, he's fighting Tito.
02:27:36.000 When Tito got on top of him, I'm like, this dude is not getting off the bottom.
02:27:40.000 Tito has very underrated submission skills as well.
02:27:42.000 He's good.
02:27:43.000 Yeah, he can knock him, but huge disparity.
02:27:46.000 Yeah, just giant.
02:27:47.000 I mean, that's your middleweight champion.
02:27:49.000 You just saw your middleweight champion get choked to sleep.
02:27:51.000 Not good for anybody.
02:27:52.000 By a guy who could fight at heavyweight.
02:27:53.000 Yeah.
02:27:54.000 What the fuck are you guys doing?
02:27:56.000 And they did that just to sell a pay-per-view.
02:27:58.000 And the whole thing was just preposterous.
02:28:00.000 And I think that, you know, unless that changes, the amount of money fighters get, it's not going to be the level that you're going to get in boxing.
02:28:14.000 Yeah.
02:28:14.000 Until boxing in the UFC, I mean, maybe it'll be one of the new champions.
02:28:21.000 Maybe it'll be Ronda Rousey that gets her first $50 million.
02:28:24.000 Because she kind of has that transcendent appeal.
02:28:28.000 I mean, she really is sort of transcending the sport.
02:28:30.000 She's the biggest star right now in MMA. Sure.
02:28:33.000 And it's because of...
02:28:35.000 What she does outside of the octagon as much as she does what she does inside.
02:28:40.000 And that's something I try and talk to athletes about, the athletes that I have the ability to influence.
02:28:45.000 And that's what I see other athletes do, a guy like Alan Belcher.
02:28:47.000 Alan Belcher makes far more money running his gyms and online training business than he does when competing as a professional athlete inside the UFC. And he makes a good payday inside the UFC. And the athletes, they need to understand that they're as big or as good as they want to be,
02:29:05.000 and they can certainly build their brand in areas like yourself.
02:29:09.000 You find areas that you enjoy and that you're good at, or you're not good at yet, but you want to be good at, so you bust your ass to push your way into that field and that niche.
02:29:19.000 And athletes, they have more than enough time to do that, whether it's flipping real estate like Bristol Marundi's doing right now.
02:29:25.000 Who's Bristol Mirondi?
02:29:26.000 Bristol Mirondi fought in UFC a couple times, fought for Strikeforce.
02:29:29.000 He was on The Ultimate Fighter a couple seasons back.
02:29:32.000 He's flipping real estate in Las Vegas.
02:29:34.000 An article came out about him recently.
02:29:36.000 He makes a shitload more money doing that than he does fighting.
02:29:39.000 And he's fighting because he enjoys fighting.
02:29:41.000 You know, Alan Belcher, what he's doing, what Ronda's doing, priming Ronda's outside the octagon money is going to eclipse what she makes inside the octagon.
02:29:48.000 She's such an anomaly, though.
02:29:49.000 I mean, how many hot chicks can beat the fuck out of dudes?
02:29:51.000 I know.
02:29:52.000 But she's going with what she has, and there's a lot of athletes out there that can go with what they have.
02:29:57.000 They all have something.
02:29:58.000 Look at what Ludwig did.
02:29:59.000 He went from being a high-level fighter.
02:30:01.000 At the end of his career, he transitioned into a coach, and he'll be a much more successful financially and business-wise as a coach coach.
02:30:09.000 We're good to go.
02:30:14.000 We're good to go.
02:30:21.000 We're good to go.
02:30:35.000 And it's not sitting back waiting for sponsors to just hand them a check to put on a t-shirt or to hold up, you know, an energy drink.
02:30:41.000 There's other ways to go out there and take care of it.
02:30:43.000 Yeah, it's tricky for fighters to find that and sort of explore that while they're also trying to improve their skill set, improve their conditioning, and also to have the energy to do it.
02:30:55.000 People are fucking exhausted after they're done training.
02:30:58.000 You know, at the end of the day, they're just like, oh, Christ.
02:31:01.000 Absolutely.
02:31:02.000 It's hard to think of, I mean, I don't know how fuck Ronda does it, but that chick never runs out of energy.
02:31:06.000 I mean, she's just a dynamo.
02:31:08.000 Yeah.
02:31:08.000 And that's also one of the reasons why she's so damn successful.
02:31:12.000 Not just outside the UFC, but as a fighter, you know?
02:31:15.000 Absolutely.
02:31:15.000 Because she has that fucking rah!
02:31:17.000 Whatever it is inside, I don't know why I did that.
02:31:19.000 Rah!
02:31:20.000 She's got that rah!
02:31:21.000 It's more like...
02:31:22.000 Whatever it is, it's a monster.
02:31:24.000 There's a monster inside her that comes out, like legitimately.
02:31:27.000 She just happens to be hot.
02:31:29.000 But it's all those other things that make her who she is.
02:31:34.000 And it's hard for people to find that.
02:31:36.000 She also has that sort of personality that...
02:31:39.000 Polemic, you know, sort of like...
02:31:41.000 She's a controversial figure.
02:31:44.000 Absolutely.
02:31:44.000 She's, you know, naturally.
02:31:46.000 You know, she's naturally a fuck you bitch.
02:31:48.000 Like, that's her.
02:31:49.000 Like, all that shit she did with Misha Tate on the show.
02:31:51.000 People are like, she's fucking crazy.
02:31:53.000 Yeah!
02:31:54.000 Yeah, guess what?
02:31:55.000 Everyone's great.
02:31:56.000 It's crazy.
02:31:57.000 They're all crazy.
02:31:58.000 When Jon Jones and Cormier, when they had their mics hot and they didn't know it and they recorded that, it's like, hey pussy, you still there?
02:32:06.000 Like, that's the...
02:32:06.000 You...
02:32:08.000 Guess what?
02:32:09.000 That's what you get.
02:32:10.000 You want a guy who's a fucking destroyer like Jon Jones?
02:32:14.000 You're going to get that guy.
02:32:15.000 That's what you get.
02:32:16.000 Those are the type of guys that win world titles.
02:32:19.000 Those are the type of guys that become the youngest ever UFC champion.
02:32:23.000 Those Jon Jones type characters.
02:32:26.000 They're naturally controversial.
02:32:28.000 Absolutely.
02:32:29.000 They're not like the rest of us.
02:32:30.000 Fortunately or not, that's what makes them special.
02:32:32.000 I agree.
02:32:33.000 But I don't know why John is not more loved or popular than he is.
02:32:40.000 I don't understand it.
02:32:41.000 Because in my opinion, I will never miss a fucking John Jones pay-per-view.
02:32:45.000 Hell yeah.
02:32:45.000 And I would think that anybody who, like, I've heard people say, oh, he's cocky, oh, he's this, and I wonder what the fuck is going on with that.
02:32:53.000 And I'm going to throw this out there.
02:32:55.000 I'm just going to say it.
02:32:56.000 I wonder how much of it is racism.
02:32:58.000 Oh, wow.
02:32:59.000 I really do.
02:33:00.000 You went there.
02:33:00.000 I did.
02:33:01.000 I did.
02:33:02.000 You know why?
02:33:03.000 Because I think they look at him as this cocky black guy.
02:33:07.000 And I think a lot of people have an issue with that.
02:33:10.000 And I think that if he was a white guy and he was doing the same thing, a la Chael Sonnen, I think he'd be way more popular.
02:33:16.000 And Chael was never the successful athlete that John is.
02:33:20.000 But I think that Chael was way more successful as a promoter than John is.
02:33:25.000 And John has not been nearly as cocky or outwardly braggadocious as Chael was.
02:33:32.000 But somehow or another, when Chael did it, first of all, Chael was very entertaining, very articulate, best shit talker, bar none, in my opinion, combat sports has ever seen.
02:33:42.000 Absolutely.
02:33:43.000 I've said he's better than Muhammad Ali.
02:33:44.000 And people are like, you're crazy.
02:33:45.000 I'm like, I'm not crazy.
02:33:46.000 I'm telling you the truth.
02:33:47.000 I think he is a better shit talker.
02:33:50.000 As a fighter, no.
02:33:52.000 No, not the best fighter.
02:33:53.000 But as a shit talker, I think he's one of the most articulate, funniest shit talkers ever.
02:33:58.000 I mean, I really do believe that.
02:34:00.000 Do you think people, Chael resonated with the public because we all knew or felt in the back of our mind that he wasn't Yeah, maybe.
02:34:33.000 I want to see the next, you know, chapter two, or the second act of Jon Jones, and then the third act.
02:34:39.000 I'm really excited as just a fan of this sport to follow his career, follow his arc, and, you know, I'm friends, you know, with Cormier, of course, also, so I'm not going to pick a horse in that one, but it'd be really interesting to see how Jon goes.
02:34:50.000 It is, without a doubt.
02:34:52.000 I always found it odd when everybody would get upset at him and say that they didn't like that he's cocky.
02:34:59.000 He's 25 and he's the UFC light heavyweight champion.
02:35:05.000 He's the youngest ever UFC champion.
02:35:08.000 He destroyed Shogun to win the title.
02:35:12.000 And I mean destroyed.
02:35:13.000 He threw a flying knee and hit Shogun on the chin five seconds into their fight.
02:35:18.000 I mean, Jon Jones is a motherfucker.
02:35:21.000 Period.
02:35:22.000 He's a motherfucker.
02:35:23.000 But for whatever reason, people have had an issue with that.
02:35:27.000 I know I'm going to get a bunch of hate tweets.
02:35:29.000 Fuck you, you fucking bullshit.
02:35:30.000 You fucking...
02:35:31.000 What, you got white guilt?
02:35:33.000 Calling out racism?
02:35:35.000 That's okay.
02:35:36.000 I'm still reeling from the fucking pro wrestling fans mad at me for the last episode.
02:35:40.000 Not really, folks.
02:35:41.000 It doesn't bother me.
02:35:42.000 Pro wrestling fans are really mad at me because my friend Tony Hinchcliffe was on.
02:35:46.000 I was mocking him.
02:35:47.000 And joking around about pro wrestling.
02:35:49.000 I really don't, just for the record, I don't hate pro wrestling at all.
02:35:53.000 And I loved it when I was in high school.
02:35:55.000 When I was in high school, I was a fucking huge pro wrestling fan.
02:35:58.000 Me and my friend Steven Arruino, we would get together and fucking, we were on a wrestling team together.
02:36:03.000 We'd always...
02:36:03.000 Joke around about being super fly off the ropes.
02:36:06.000 I was a huge wrestling fan, but I was 14. Do I watch it today?
02:36:10.000 No.
02:36:11.000 But I understand and appreciate it.
02:36:12.000 I was busting my friend Tony's balls because it made for a fun podcast, but the fucking wave of misspelled hate tweets that have come my way.
02:36:22.000 Holy shit, folks.
02:36:23.000 Relax.
02:36:24.000 There's other things to be upset about, okay?
02:36:27.000 I'm not really mad at you.
02:36:30.000 Settle down.
02:36:32.000 But I'm probably going to get an equal amount from the Aryan race.
02:36:36.000 There you go.
02:36:37.000 Mad at me for defending Jon Jones, the cocky negro.
02:36:42.000 I really think there's something to that.
02:36:45.000 I think people want a guy who is so physically gifted and young and brash and black and rich.
02:36:50.000 They want him to have more humility or fake humility, as it were.
02:36:55.000 And I think John's trying that a little bit.
02:36:57.000 That's one of the reasons why Cormier was like, you are so fake.
02:37:00.000 Like, you're so fake.
02:37:01.000 Cormier was saying that to him because they think he's trying to counteract how people feel about him.
02:37:07.000 It's got to be hard to be that young and successful and still emotionally developing.
02:37:12.000 I don't want to say immature, but he's still learning to be a man in his own skin.
02:37:17.000 And to have that type of success.
02:37:19.000 So he just...
02:37:20.000 He deserves to be fucking cocky for what he's accomplished.
02:37:22.000 No doubt.
02:37:24.000 It's inevitable that he's cocky.
02:37:26.000 It's almost impossible not to be at that age and at that level of accomplishment.
02:37:32.000 I think everyone is evolving.
02:37:35.000 You evolve till you die.
02:37:37.000 You change and grow and learn.
02:37:39.000 If you're not, you're stagnant and you're rotting away.
02:37:42.000 Because I think I'm a better, whatever I'm better at now, I'm better than I was a year ago.
02:37:48.000 And if I wasn't, I'd be disappointed.
02:37:50.000 And I'm 47. I mean, when I'm 48, I guarantee you I'll be looking back saying, whatever I do, whether it's podcasting or comedy, I'll be better at 48 than I am at 47. And when I'm not, that means I'm fucking dying.
02:38:02.000 It means the gears stop turning.
02:38:04.000 The nootropics stop working.
02:38:06.000 The testosterone replacement's failing.
02:38:08.000 There's going to come a wall.
02:38:10.000 You're going to hit that wall.
02:38:11.000 I haven't hit it yet.
02:38:11.000 When I hit it, I'll know I hit it.
02:38:13.000 But I think that when a guy like John Jones is 30 and looks back at who he was when he was 25, yeah, he'll have said some things that he didn't think he should have said.
02:38:21.000 But the trials and tribulations of being that guy are almost unimaginable.
02:38:26.000 Just the stress and the pressures and all that jazz.
02:38:32.000 Absolutely.
02:38:32.000 Absolutely.
02:38:34.000 With now the scrutiny that's on a guy like that with all the social media available, all the cameras in his face, just the attention at a 25-year-old.
02:38:43.000 All of us, everybody listening at 25, we're all fucking idiots.
02:38:46.000 And if you're 25 right now, you're going to look back 10 years and be like, Jesus, I was an idiot.
02:38:49.000 Yeah.
02:38:50.000 You know, so it's fun to watch, you know, what John's going through, and I would love to see him just go straight heel, fuck you all, you know, double fingers up in the air, I'm the best in the fucking world, fuck you, and not try and play, not pander to the comments anymore,
02:39:05.000 not try and be the Christian dude, not try and, you know, make people happy.
02:39:09.000 I think that's real, though.
02:39:10.000 I think there's a part of him...
02:39:11.000 Look, he has the fucking biblical tattoo on his chest.
02:39:15.000 I don't think he put that there for a show.
02:39:16.000 I think there's part of him that really feels like that, but there's also the part of him that's this remorseless warrior.
02:39:23.000 Sure.
02:39:23.000 There's both.
02:39:24.000 There's both of those things.
02:39:26.000 It's a constant conflict going on.
02:39:28.000 I mean, I think he definitely tries to be a good person.
02:39:30.000 I think he definitely tries to be a good father.
02:39:31.000 I think there's definitely...
02:39:32.000 But he also is the guy who choked Lyoto Machida to sleep.
02:39:37.000 He's also the guy that submitted Vitor Belfort.
02:39:41.000 He's a real destroyer.
02:39:43.000 So when Chael was fighting him, I was helping Chael for that one, and John wouldn't look at Chael, and there's a photo, and I made a comment on the photo, like, you know, Jones must be scared.
02:39:52.000 He's not even looking at Chael.
02:39:53.000 Just, you know, some hype in the fight.
02:39:55.000 And John saw me backstage, and he's like, man, he's like...
02:39:58.000 What the fuck?
02:39:59.000 He's like, why are you saying that?
02:39:59.000 I'm not scared of him.
02:40:00.000 Like, was, you know, in my face a little bit.
02:40:01.000 I'm like, god damn, champ.
02:40:02.000 Like, you know.
02:40:04.000 Just hyping shit.
02:40:04.000 Just hyping the fight, bro.
02:40:06.000 Right.
02:40:06.000 And then, you know, I see him like, you know, a week or two later and he was just such a sweet guy and he's like, man, I'm sorry about that.
02:40:11.000 He was like, I was hyped up at the fight.
02:40:12.000 I know you're just kidding around.
02:40:13.000 He's like, I was just in that zone.
02:40:15.000 So, the dichotomy of character, you know, in my face, like, you know, fuck you.
02:40:19.000 And then, remorseful afterwards, not far after.
02:40:22.000 He's like, man, I feel really bad about that, Dolce.
02:40:23.000 You're a good dude.
02:40:24.000 Like, blah, blah, blah, blah.
02:40:26.000 So, Yeah, and I think that's real.
02:40:28.000 I don't think he was just doing, like, some sort of PR. No, we were alone.
02:40:33.000 There was nobody around, nobody watching both times.
02:40:35.000 Yeah, I don't think it's damage control.
02:40:37.000 I think, you know, it's a...
02:40:38.000 Look, the unimaginable pressure of being that guy.
02:40:43.000 Yeah.
02:40:43.000 You know, and knowing there's Rumble Johnsons out there that are rising up, putting people to sleep.
02:40:49.000 You know, Rumble Johnson.
02:40:50.000 That's a scary dude, man.
02:40:51.000 Woo!
02:40:51.000 Woo!
02:40:52.000 He's the scariest, in my opinion.
02:40:54.000 He can do things to you that other guys can't do.
02:40:56.000 Absolutely.
02:40:57.000 That fucking fight with him and Phil Davis opened a lot of people's eyes.
02:41:00.000 That was terrifying, to watch Phil Davis just in this full defensive mode that we've never seen him in before.
02:41:07.000 Phil didn't get him down once, did he?
02:41:09.000 No!
02:41:09.000 No.
02:41:10.000 He didn't even come close.
02:41:11.000 That's a scary man right there.
02:41:13.000 Yeah, and Rumble connects on anybody.
02:41:15.000 It's nighty-night.
02:41:16.000 What he did to fucking Little Nog, man...
02:41:19.000 I mean, people have beaten Little Nog, but they haven't beaten the fuck out of him like that.
02:41:23.000 He beat the fuck out of Little Nog and put him to sleep.
02:41:26.000 I mean, that was terrifying.
02:41:28.000 He's a terrifying guy.
02:41:30.000 Absolutely.
02:41:31.000 It'd be fun to see.
02:41:32.000 He's a perfect weight-cutting example.
02:41:35.000 He started out fighting as a fucking welterweight, weighing 230 pounds, dropping down to 170. Insanity.
02:41:43.000 And we spoke multiple times about the possibility of working, and I told him, no.
02:41:48.000 No.
02:41:48.000 I don't think it's good, and I think you should move up.
02:41:52.000 He's a good guy.
02:41:53.000 For anybody that doesn't know, you just know the persona of Anthony Johnson.
02:41:55.000 He's a really good, smart guy.
02:41:57.000 And he felt committed to 170 for whatever reason at that time.
02:42:01.000 But going to 185, 205, and he's had success in heavyweight also, right?
02:42:06.000 Yeah.
02:42:07.000 Success in heavyweight.
02:42:08.000 205, I think that's where he's just a killer.
02:42:11.000 You know, obviously couldn't make 85 against Belfort back in the day.
02:42:14.000 205 is just a nasty weight class for that dude.
02:42:16.000 And he's not a young, he's not an old guy either.
02:42:17.000 No, he's 30. Yeah, he's 30. And he's also emotionally very mature now.
02:42:22.000 He's a different guy.
02:42:23.000 And he's not, you know, he would get overwhelmed in fights like the Koscheck fight or some of the high-pressure fights that he had before.
02:42:29.000 But I think also having the failure...
02:42:33.000 The losing his position in the UFC, leaving, going somewhere else, and then deciding to fight all the way up at heavyweight.
02:42:39.000 Yeah.
02:42:40.000 Fought Andrei Olovsky and fucked him up as a heavyweight.
02:42:43.000 He's a monster, man.
02:42:44.000 He's a fucking monster.
02:42:45.000 Rumble Johnson.
02:42:46.000 And it's, again, he's gone through the journey, and he's become a better man because of that journey.
02:42:51.000 And talks openly about it.
02:42:52.000 I mean, after he fought Little Nog, and I interviewed him, he thanked the UFC for cutting him.
02:42:57.000 That's awesome.
02:42:58.000 It's like it's one of the best things that ever happened to him that made him wake up and realize what he was doing wrong.
02:43:02.000 Yeah.
02:43:02.000 And he was saying, yeah, and I said about the weight cutting thing, he's like, yeah, don't cut so much weight.
02:43:07.000 I agree.
02:43:08.000 He's a fucking big guy, man.
02:43:11.000 He's a fucking big dude.
02:43:11.000 He's a big guy.
02:43:13.000 I would see him in between fights.
02:43:15.000 It was unimaginable that guy can make 170. Yeah, he said he would go in the sauna for an hour just to lose a pound.
02:43:21.000 Like back when he was making 70. Oh my God.
02:43:23.000 Just killing, killing, killing his body to get it done.
02:43:26.000 His body failed.
02:43:28.000 One of the fights, Vitor, or one of the fights where he didn't make weight, his body failed.
02:43:32.000 Like, his legs stopped working.
02:43:34.000 Like, he couldn't walk.
02:43:36.000 You know, I mean, he was on death's door.
02:43:38.000 Literally.
02:43:39.000 Yeah, literally.
02:43:40.000 That's fucking...
02:43:41.000 How about Baral?
02:43:42.000 We were almost out of time here, but that's a perfect example of a guy who's fucking up, cutting weight.
02:43:47.000 The day of the weigh-ins, they change opponents.
02:43:51.000 He gets pulled out of a fucking title fight because he can't make weight, and he falls asleep.
02:43:56.000 He blacks out, getting out of the tub and bonked his head.
02:43:59.000 It's a comedy of errors right there, not to point fingers.
02:44:03.000 I think the whole team has to accept responsibility for that.
02:44:06.000 Taking the fight way too soon.
02:44:07.000 Pushing for the fight, taking the fight.
02:44:09.000 The kid was concussed in the first fight against Dillashaw.
02:44:12.000 He's fighting three months later.
02:44:13.000 He should have been out for six months before they even thought about scheduling a fight.
02:44:18.000 We all know that.
02:44:18.000 I agree 100%.
02:44:19.000 And then to have to cut all the way back down again, there's no way we can expect his body to respond.
02:44:24.000 I'm not sure how they cut weight, but I know those guys, they don't cut weight In the healthiest manner, they really struggle and sacrifice to get down.
02:44:31.000 We see them all the time.
02:44:32.000 So they just tortured this poor fucking kid.
02:44:35.000 And then you don't let an athlete, just from experience, you don't let an athlete stand up.
02:44:39.000 Athletes, if you're in the bathtub, you roll out of the bathtub onto the floor and you slowly stand up.
02:44:44.000 You use hand grips.
02:44:45.000 You have two people in there to help you stand.
02:44:47.000 Never should a coach's hand be off you and whatever cream allegedly they put on him.
02:44:51.000 That stuff, Albaline and stuff, doesn't work.
02:44:53.000 I have the analytics to show it.
02:44:55.000 I'm not bashing any companies.
02:44:56.000 Well, Albaline is not designed No, it's not.
02:44:59.000 It's a moisturizer.
02:45:01.000 It's a moisturizer.
02:45:01.000 And it's a lot of these old wives tales.
02:45:04.000 That's the Epsom salt and alcohol, rubbing alcohol, like I was talking the story before about aloe vera.
02:45:09.000 So you put alcohol in the tub and what that does, those fumes, they create respiratory distress, tons of headaches.
02:45:15.000 Chris Camozzi was like, what the fuck, man?
02:45:17.000 They came in, they put alcohol in the tub.
02:45:19.000 He's like, now I got a headache.
02:45:21.000 Because of what Olivera's team did downstairs in the spa at the fucking hotel.
02:45:25.000 They poured it in the spa at the hotel where everybody else got in there and had to deal with that?
02:45:29.000 Yeah.
02:45:30.000 Oh my god.
02:45:31.000 Just like insanity.
02:45:32.000 What world is this?
02:45:33.000 Come on, you're professional.
02:45:33.000 Well, Epsom salts is good for you.
02:45:35.000 It's a natural source of magnesium.
02:45:36.000 It's good to take Epsom salt baths.
02:45:38.000 It's one of the best ways for your body to absorb magnesium.
02:45:40.000 It's one of the added benefits of sensory deprivation tanks because the salinated water is Epsom salts.
02:45:46.000 Your body actually absorbs magnesium.
02:45:48.000 It's a great way to get it through your skin.
02:45:50.000 Excellent.
02:45:50.000 It's not going to make you lose additional weight.
02:45:53.000 And that's something, and we can argue back and forth with people listening, or I do that all the time.
02:45:58.000 Try to do the same tub with the same temperature in the same physical state with and without the Epsom salts and watch what you lose.
02:46:03.000 It's going to be almost identical.
02:46:04.000 And you have all this documented?
02:46:06.000 I do.
02:46:06.000 Okay.
02:46:06.000 I do.
02:46:07.000 Well, that's the difference is you, a lot of these guys that are, you know, these weight cutting guys and these people that people get brought in is the amount of documentation that you have and the amount of just raw data just from dealing with various athletes.
02:46:19.000 Yeah, it's all, everything we do is data-based.
02:46:21.000 It's data-based, it's experience-based, it's research-based.
02:46:24.000 I mean, it's proven, and then it's never perfected, but it's always evolving.
02:46:29.000 What worked last time against, you know, with everybody, well, that's what we're sticking with, and if something was an anomaly, well, we consider it, and we look into it, we research it, but we don't add it to new protocol.
02:46:39.000 Is there any failure that you've had?
02:46:42.000 Like, is there any one fighter that you worked with, you're like, man, I wish I could go do that one again?
02:46:48.000 I've never had an athlete miss weight other than myself freshman year of high school in the state wrestling tournament.
02:46:54.000 I don't think that counts.
02:46:55.000 I'm not going to take you back to freshman year of high school wrestling.
02:46:57.000 No athlete under my watch has ever missed weight, but the one I would like the redo, I mean the Hendricks one in Dallas, I would have loved to have made weight on the first time with that one, but there was a whole comedy of errors.
02:47:07.000 Well also you've got to stop to think about the fact that he's pretty seriously injured.
02:47:11.000 Yeah.
02:47:11.000 Torn bicep, cracked shin, pretty fucking crazy in the first place.
02:47:15.000 Absolutely.
02:47:15.000 Absolutely.
02:47:15.000 Medical checks in the middle of the day.
02:47:17.000 We had to stop cutting and then start cutting again.
02:47:19.000 We left the scale.
02:47:20.000 This is our fault for leaving the scale in an open gym with a bunch of knuckleheads jumping on his scale.
02:47:26.000 So there was quite a few things in looking back that we could have done better.
02:47:30.000 I would have loved to have rewound that one.
02:47:32.000 I should have had another commissioner come over and check the scale again when the first commissioner called him at 171.5.
02:47:41.000 Which he wasn't 71 and a half, he was 70 and a half, and he had his underwear on.
02:47:44.000 There was quite a few guys who had issues with that scale, in all fairness.
02:47:48.000 There was a backstage scale that weighed very different than the onstage scale, which can happen occasionally, and it's a real issue.
02:47:54.000 People were calling for calibration, for recalibration, and they're like, we can't recalibrate.
02:47:59.000 That does happen in certain commissions and time to time.
02:48:03.000 It's tricky.
02:48:04.000 It varies with commission.
02:48:06.000 A lot of folks don't realize that.
02:48:08.000 When you see a few fighters miss weight, oftentimes it's because the backstage scale is different.
02:48:14.000 They thought they were fine and they get on the onstage scale and it's a different weight.
02:48:19.000 Absolutely.
02:48:20.000 I've been at events, and I won't say the promotion, where the scale got dropped, and then you get on the scale at the early day pre-weigh-ins, the scale got dropped somehow between the venue and the hotel, and now all of a sudden it's got a crazy reading like you're saying right now.
02:48:36.000 The last minute the scale gets switched because it goes to the wrong place where it doesn't get through.
02:48:41.000 So I've seen almost every odd issue I've been at.
02:48:43.000 I don't even know how many weigh-ins now.
02:48:45.000 And it's not as easy to weigh in properly when you're trying to keep the athlete as healthy as possible.
02:48:51.000 You're not just trying to get the athlete to 170 pounds and just leave them there for four hours.
02:48:55.000 You're trying to minimize that period as much as possible and really just skim the top of the weight and let them bounce right back up because we're trying to preserve their health, which is going to increase their ability to perform to the best of their ability.
02:49:06.000 So, you know, like with Hendrix and the weight, it was a matter of get him out of here, get him calm again, because he's freezing cold.
02:49:14.000 It was so cold in that place.
02:49:15.000 He's freezing cold, shaking.
02:49:17.000 On the scale, the chaos begins.
02:49:18.000 Tidal fight on the line.
02:49:19.000 Let's get him out of here.
02:49:20.000 Let's calm him down.
02:49:21.000 And then let's get the weight off of him.
02:49:23.000 Let's keep him healthy.
02:49:24.000 Let's keep him confident.
02:49:25.000 Let's keep him happy.
02:49:26.000 And get him back on.
02:49:27.000 So that's what I would like to redo.
02:49:29.000 When you got a guy like Hendrix that has a torn bicep and a crack shin, how close were they to not taking that fight?
02:49:35.000 There wasn't even a consideration.
02:49:37.000 Even if the arm was completely useless, was he going to just fight with his left?
02:49:41.000 He was going to go and fight with one hand.
02:49:43.000 Fuck.
02:49:43.000 That's fucking Johnny Hendrix.
02:49:44.000 That's why I love the kid.
02:49:46.000 There's no quit in him, no matter what.
02:49:48.000 There's just no quit in him.
02:49:49.000 But that seems ridiculous.
02:49:51.000 If you have a torn ACL and you can't move, you fight anyway?
02:49:54.000 If it were up to me...
02:49:56.000 I wouldn't let my athlete fight in that one, and that's either good or bad.
02:50:00.000 We can debate that also.
02:50:01.000 I'm not going to put an injured athlete out there to get his bicep torn off and possibly lose his only opportunity to fight for a world title.
02:50:08.000 Let's say Robbie went out there and won that last round, or Johnny had to default because he tore the bicep and couldn't lift his arm.
02:50:14.000 Ref saw that, judge saw that, medical doctors saw that, called the fight on the stool.
02:50:19.000 Crazy things happen, and then he loses his bit.
02:50:21.000 And now he goes to the back of the line.
02:50:23.000 He's got to fight three, four fights against its stacked division.
02:50:25.000 Maybe he never gets there again.
02:50:26.000 So that would be one consideration.
02:50:28.000 But a guy like Johnny, man, two-time NCAA Division I national champion, he goes out there and he knows how to get it done.
02:50:34.000 And ultimately, he's the boss.
02:50:36.000 That's the mental toughness that comes with that amateur wrestling background that we were talking about.
02:50:39.000 It's a real thing.
02:50:41.000 It's real.
02:50:42.000 They are all of them.
02:50:44.000 All amateur wrestling champions are fucking mentally strong.
02:50:49.000 They're a special breed of human.
02:50:51.000 Absolutely.
02:50:51.000 And it's crazy, because we're talking about how you should rest, and you should train smart, and you shouldn't overtrain, but it's like the overtraining is what made them so mentally strong, and that becomes one of their biggest weapons.
02:51:04.000 So it's such a catch-22.
02:51:07.000 Yeah, I think the genetic superiors rise in that area.
02:51:12.000 I mean, not many guys actually make it to the top of that podium, and the genetic...
02:51:18.000 Superiors make it to the top where they're able to be the anomaly, the outlier, where the rest of us were just not able to.
02:51:25.000 We break somewhere along the way due to whatever reason.
02:51:28.000 But it's not in their best...
02:51:30.000 I don't think it's part of the proper longevity protocol.
02:51:34.000 You see a lot of wrestlers in their 50s and 60s and they're kind of...
02:51:37.000 Fucked up.
02:51:37.000 Fucked up.
02:51:38.000 Dan Gable's fucked up.
02:51:40.000 Fucked up.
02:51:40.000 But they got Olympic gold medals, and they have some things that some of us will never have, so it's the risk-reward.
02:51:45.000 Well, Mark Coleman's like, what, 48, 49?
02:51:47.000 He has a hip replacement already.
02:51:49.000 Yeah.
02:51:49.000 It's crazy.
02:51:50.000 Yeah, it's crazy.
02:51:50.000 Still wrestling with it.
02:51:52.000 He's a crazy son of a bitch, right?
02:51:54.000 He's an animal.
02:51:55.000 And it's the same thing, what we were talking about.
02:51:57.000 The tough motherfuckers.
02:52:00.000 I don't know if this is real or not.
02:52:02.000 I have a question.
02:52:04.000 Is there...
02:52:05.000 Is, like, a piece of protein, like, say, like, 10 ounces of fish versus 10 ounces of lamb or elk or game meat, is there...
02:52:17.000 A higher quality protein?
02:52:20.000 Is some protein more effective to some animals?
02:52:23.000 Do they have more energy?
02:52:25.000 Is there more energy in a grass-fed piece of beef versus a corn-fed piece of beef?
02:52:31.000 Yes, and this is now my opinion based upon a lot of scientific research.
02:52:35.000 There's other research that says the opposite, so now we're just going to throw it up in the air.
02:52:39.000 So my philosophy, the Dolce Diet Principles, number one is earth-grown nutrients, and that's eating real food from its natural source and its natural habitat, raised and bred in the natural way.
02:52:50.000 You cannot beat that when it comes to nutrient quality, nutrient density.
02:52:54.000 And that's what we always go after.
02:52:56.000 So I want line-caught fish.
02:52:58.000 Salmon primarily.
02:52:59.000 That's one of my top choices.
02:53:01.000 Line-caught salmon.
02:53:02.000 Excellent.
02:53:02.000 Grass-fed beef.
02:53:04.000 And when I say grass-fed beef or meat, I want that roaming in, you know, the trees somewhere.
02:53:09.000 And I want to, you know...
02:53:11.000 Take it out myself with a bow or with a bullet where it doesn't even know any humans within 100 miles.
02:53:16.000 That's the best possible.
02:53:17.000 So there's no anxiety.
02:53:18.000 There's no cortisol.
02:53:19.000 There's no stress state.
02:53:21.000 It's eating the exact food it's supposed to be.
02:53:23.000 It has no illness, no injuries, no disease, no chemicals.
02:53:27.000 Same thing, really anything.
02:53:29.000 With your vegetables, with your spinach, with your blueberries, the most natural cannot be beet.
02:53:34.000 And that's...
02:53:38.000 That's the number one principle.
02:53:39.000 If you're only eating earth-grown nutrients, real food, and you don't pay attention to the time of day, you don't pay attention to the quantity, you're going to be much better off than most of the other people.
02:53:47.000 But is there more energy in, say, a piece of elk than there is in line-caught salmon?
02:53:53.000 Is there more energy in grass-fed beef than there is in lamb?
02:53:57.000 Is that quantifiable?
02:53:58.000 I don't believe so.
02:53:59.000 And what we do is we eat as much of it in moderation as we can.
02:54:05.000 So I want the elk.
02:54:06.000 I want the salmon.
02:54:07.000 I want the lamb.
02:54:09.000 I want the chicken.
02:54:09.000 I want the turkey.
02:54:10.000 I want all of it.
02:54:12.000 I don't want to have just the beef every day and just the eggs every day.
02:54:15.000 So you like mixing it up?
02:54:16.000 You have to mix everything because each one has a different nutrient profile.
02:54:20.000 And I want all of those nutrients to cycle through my body.
02:54:23.000 Not just one type because you can build up some sort of allergy.
02:54:27.000 Or you can create a deficiency.
02:54:30.000 So as much of everything as possible.
02:54:32.000 Whatever is local is best.
02:54:33.000 Whatever is in season is best because that again has a higher nutrient quantity.
02:54:37.000 So whatever is seasonal, that's what we typically cycle through.
02:54:40.000 Have you ever had to work with someone like a Jake Shields who tries to fight as a vegan?
02:54:44.000 He's sort of vegan.
02:54:45.000 He eats eggs.
02:54:46.000 Yeah, I speak with Jake.
02:54:48.000 We've toyed with it a little bit, never worked together officially.
02:54:51.000 Do I work with any specific vegans?
02:54:54.000 No, I do.
02:54:55.000 I mean, not professional athletes, but in our normal business that we do, we have some vegans, and that's pretty easy.
02:55:00.000 A lot of my recipes are vegan-centric, which is easy to do.
02:55:04.000 But if you're a combat athlete, it's really hard to excel.
02:55:07.000 It's possible if you're an outlier.
02:55:09.000 But it's very hard to excel without that animal protein.
02:55:13.000 And most vegans agree with that.
02:55:15.000 It's very difficult unless you're dogmatic about your sourcing of nutrition.
02:55:20.000 It becomes a full-time plus job in order to eat the right foods at the right time and you have to go to the market and you always have to have that supply.
02:55:27.000 You can't miss meals because your body is just constantly breaking down.
02:55:31.000 Is it harder for them also to get high enough calories from their proteins and things like that?
02:55:36.000 Yeah, it's harder for them to get.
02:55:37.000 They have to have what's called complementary proteins.
02:55:39.000 You have to get multiple nutrient sources in order to get all the amino acids.
02:55:43.000 Like pea protein and hemp protein and rice protein and all these different powders and stuff that they mix in.
02:55:50.000 Yes, so vegans need a very diverse diet in order to make sure they're getting all the proper nutrients.
02:55:55.000 It just becomes a lot of work and Jake has said that.
02:55:58.000 Just a lot of work.
02:55:59.000 And even then, is it 100% what you would get if you were eating elk and steak and chicken?
02:56:07.000 I don't believe so.
02:56:08.000 I personally, and I've never lived a 12-month, I've lived for three months as a vegan, and it was very difficult.
02:56:14.000 I leaned out, I lost a lot of weight, I lost a lot of power output.
02:56:18.000 My endurance went up.
02:56:19.000 I mean, my blood panel looked awesome.
02:56:21.000 So it was definitely a give and take.
02:56:23.000 I didn't do it for a full 12 months, which I think I would really have to go through all four seasons to truly understand and feel it.
02:56:33.000 I know Fitch tried it for a while, but then he went back to meat.
02:56:36.000 He said he feels much stronger, much better.
02:56:39.000 So many vegans were tweeting Fitch.
02:56:41.000 They were loving it that he was vegan.
02:56:44.000 Love that you're a vegan, man.
02:56:45.000 It's amazing.
02:56:46.000 And then afterwards, he's like, fuck, this sucked.
02:56:49.000 It's hard to do.
02:56:50.000 I lost weight.
02:56:51.000 I'm not as strong.
02:56:51.000 I'm not as aggressive.
02:56:52.000 I don't have as much energy.
02:56:53.000 He goes, and now I feel much better now that I'm eating meat again.
02:56:56.000 They're like, mm, sad face.
02:56:58.000 Sad face.
02:56:59.000 Vegans get bummed out if you're not a vegan anymore.
02:57:01.000 When they lose one of theirs, they get fucking bummed.
02:57:04.000 They love when they get one, but when they lose one, man, it hits them hard.
02:57:07.000 It's tough.
02:57:08.000 It's tough.
02:57:09.000 And I do believe that there's a life force also that comes from certain foods.
02:57:14.000 I do believe that.
02:57:15.000 Maybe it's a placebo effect.
02:57:17.000 I think it's true.
02:57:18.000 I've had this philosophy, which is total bro science on my part, but my philosophy is that things that run quicker are better for you.
02:57:25.000 Because that's why there's a reward for getting them.
02:57:28.000 That's why before people figured out nets and hooks and lines, it was really hard to catch a fish.
02:57:32.000 And if you caught a fish, fucking strong protein.
02:57:34.000 You catch a salmon, that's very high in protein.
02:57:36.000 High protein, high in essential fats.
02:57:38.000 I mean, a piece of elk has less cholesterol and more protein than the same piece of chicken that weighs the same amount.
02:57:45.000 You can catch easily enough.
02:57:47.000 Yeah.
02:57:48.000 Yeah, I agree with that.
02:57:49.000 And bro science, absolutely.
02:57:52.000 Maybe, probably.
02:57:52.000 But, you know, until science...
02:57:54.000 Maybe cheetah's the best shit for you.
02:57:55.000 Maybe we should start eating cheetahs.
02:57:56.000 Could be.
02:57:57.000 It could be.
02:57:59.000 Maybe.
02:58:00.000 Well, I know they eat mountain lion.
02:58:02.000 Everybody thinks that hunters that kill mountain lions are assholes.
02:58:06.000 But first of all, you need to control the mountain lion population.
02:58:08.000 Otherwise, they kill all the deer.
02:58:10.000 They kill all the pigs.
02:58:10.000 They kill everything.
02:58:11.000 Mountain lions are motherfuckers.
02:58:12.000 But also, people eat it.
02:58:14.000 They eat mountain lions.
02:58:15.000 It's supposed to be really delicious.
02:58:16.000 Huh.
02:58:16.000 I never had it.
02:58:17.000 Never had it either.
02:58:17.000 Is that a Colorado thing?
02:58:19.000 No, it's, you know, places, Colorado for sure, Utah, places where they hunt it on a regular basis.
02:58:23.000 They choose mountain lion over pig in a lot of places.
02:58:27.000 They really like it.
02:58:28.000 Yeah, it's supposed to, like, the back straps, the loin from mountain lion, it's supposed to be delicious.
02:58:33.000 We ran out of time, my friend.
02:58:34.000 If people want to get a hold of you, how do they get a hold of you on Twitter?
02:58:37.000 That's TheDolceDiet.com, The Dolce Diet on Twitter and Facebook and all the places that you normally go.
02:58:42.000 And is that your book that you have there?
02:58:44.000 That is for you, my friend.
02:58:46.000 It's Three Weeks to Shredded, our new book that's out right now.
02:58:48.000 It details the Tiago Alves weight cut and also the one I had done previous, so it's the original and the expanded version.
02:58:54.000 Dude, we could do about 15 more of these, I'm sure.
02:58:56.000 And when more things come up and more issues nutritionally or exercise-wise, let's do it.
02:59:02.000 Absolutely, brother Joe.
02:59:03.000 Thank you very much, my friend.
02:59:03.000 Really appreciate it.
02:59:04.000 Mike Dolce, ladies and gentlemen.
02:59:06.000 Thank you, sir.
02:59:08.000 You know how to get a hold of him.
02:59:09.000 Thanks to our sponsors.
02:59:10.000 Thanks to Squarespace.
02:59:11.000 Go to squarespace.com and enter the code word Joe.
02:59:15.000 Squarespace.com.
02:59:16.000 We're good to go.
02:59:40.000 Okay, we will be back, my friends.
02:59:42.000 Many, many podcasts this week.
02:59:44.000 Tim Burnett from Solo Hunters is here on Thursday.
02:59:47.000 Joe DeRosa will be here on Wednesday.
02:59:49.000 Until then, big kiss.
02:59:52.000 Have fun.
02:59:52.000 Take care.
02:59:53.000 See ya.