Paul Stanley joins me to talk about his life in KISS, the band he played in with Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, and the band that defined rock and roll in the 80s and early 90s. We talk about the band's early days, the early days of KISS as a band, and what it was like to be in a rock band in the 70s and 80s, and how the band went from being a pop rock band to being a rock and heavy metal band. We also talk about Paul Stanley's time in the band and how he and Gene split up, and why it was so difficult to reunite after the band split up. Finally, we talk about KISS s reunion with Ace and Paul and the fallout from the reunion and how it affected the band as a whole, and Paul's role in the new KISS album "Sonic the Hedgehog" and his thoughts on KISS's new album "Voodoo Glowsticks." We finish up the show with a Q&A segment with Joe Rogan. Enjoy! Logo by Courtney DeKorte. Theme by Mavus White. Music by PSOVOD and tyops. Cover art by Ian Dorsch. Artwork by Jeff Kaale. Thank you for all the support and shout out to my good friend, Kevin McLeod for coming up with the intro and outro music for this episode. and the intro music for the intro song "I Do What I Do" by my new song "We're Live & Outro music by my band, "I Don't Know What We're Doin' It's My Mind" by My Girl" by Suneaters from my band SONGSound. Please rate and review us on iTunes. Thank you so much for all your support and spread the word out there! XOXO! -- I'll be looking out for your support. -- My goal is to have a live show next week! and I'll see you next week with a new album out next Wednesday! Love you all! -- Thank you, Joe Rogans, Joe Rogan -- Thankyou, Paul Stanley -- and you'll have a good day! -- -- Love, Gotta Get it out here! -- The KISS Podcast -- Gotta get it out there. -- Thank You, My God Bless Ya'll! -- Love Ya'll.
00:00:51.000Like, I was a tiny little kid when I first found out about KISS. So to have you here in my podcast, I've been to many of your shows, both pre-when you wore makeup, then when you got off of makeup, and then when you got back on makeup again.
00:01:04.000So I've been through the full spectrum.
00:01:58.000I mean, we had a fox and an Egyptian warrior.
00:02:02.000Next we would have Turtle Boy and the Frogman.
00:02:05.000So I think once we brought Ace and Peter back for the reunion tour, Which I hoped would go on forever.
00:02:14.000In other words, I hoped that everybody would get back together, everybody would see the error in their ways, and we would move forward and stay together forever.
00:02:25.000But when that wasn't to be, I thought, you know, we really built these four images.
00:02:31.000Arguably, you can go anywhere in the world and people know who KISS is, regardless of whether they know who those people are.
00:02:38.000To give up that because we found that those guys were no longer either capable or wanted to give it 100%, well, who loses out?
00:02:52.000Those images are the images that will continue when I'm not here either.
00:02:58.000Yeah, that's gotta be a strange place to be where you and Gene are both these super-focused, healthy, non-drug-using guys, and then you have these two guys in your band that are integral parts of the band.
00:03:13.000You know, I mean, Beth was a huge hit.
00:03:15.000It was, and look, this whole show could turn into denigrating the former members, but I don't want to do that, but honestly...
00:03:26.000That song was the product of a great producer who had a big hand in writing it and a co-writer who Peter used on a lot of things that he supposedly wrote.
00:03:40.000But they were integral members of the band, and it's very difficult to move forward when two of the people are like...
00:03:52.000At times, like flat tires, you're trying to move forward.
00:03:58.000It becomes more of a problem when their reason for being is to foil and to throw off track what you're trying to do.
00:04:12.000So, at some point, it really became more about trying to disrupt what we were trying to do With no regard to whether or not what they want to do was right or wrong.
00:04:24.000They just wanted, let's screw Gene and Paul.
00:05:16.000Look, I never wanted or expected anybody in the band to do necessarily the same amount of work that I did, but I expected them to give 100%.
00:05:27.000I was all for splitting things evenly in the original lineup of the band up until those guys departed the first time.
00:06:52.000One of the things that I always equate to is when you see people smoking cigarettes and they throw their cigarette on the ground and don't think anything of it.
00:08:08.000But when people reach a point of saying, well, I want an equal amount of songs, well, do we leave off Strutter so we can put your song on, or do we leave off Detroit Rock City?
00:08:38.000Is that the most difficult thing about being in a band, is just managing all the egos and managing, you know, everybody has their own point of view where they're not getting appreciated or looked at with the proper respect?
00:08:51.000That's often the situation in bands, and thankfully that's not the situation in our band.
00:08:57.000Eric's been in and out of the band for 20 years, I think, at this point.
00:09:01.000And Tommy's been around the band and been in the band, I think, over 10 at this point.
00:09:07.000The key to a great band or any great situation is doing what's best for the situation, not what's best for you.
00:09:18.000I just want to see the right thing happen.
00:09:20.000So if you're more tied up in the ego gratification or in the control factor, I honestly don't need to control anything.
00:09:31.000But I do have a point of view, and I guess I've earned my place at this juncture.
00:09:37.000Everybody gets a chance to stake their views, and hopefully they're always with the best intentions.
00:09:44.000And I think that's the way the band works now.
00:09:48.000We have a drummer who doesn't like to take a solo, and this guy could play a better solo with one hand than most drummers could play with every limb of their body.
00:09:56.000So, everybody really, it's all for one and one for all.
00:10:01.000You guys were one of the first bands that got really big doing live shows.
00:10:08.000Like, your live shows were so spectacular that when you put a live album out, when you put out Kiss Alive and then Kiss Alive 2, Those albums were so big, like, I mean, and it's, obviously we're dating ourselves here, but just the albums,
00:10:23.000when you'd open up Kiss Alive 2, that big, silver, dynamic record, I mean, it was awesome!
00:10:30.000And the performances were so intense, you know, it was so much fun to listen to that it really boosted you guys up.
00:10:38.000And when I was a kid, it would really drive me fucking crazy that I didn't hear your songs enough on the radio.
00:10:44.000And when I did hear one of your songs, I got super excited.
00:11:14.000Look, it took 14 years for us to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
00:11:18.000Not that necessarily I lost any sleep over it, but...
00:11:23.000Validation from critics and people like that has been something that's been a long time coming, but it's never been an issue because our success was based upon people, real fans, the people who buy tickets,
00:11:58.000Was it something that you came to get over, but did it bother you at all that you guys weren't getting the record play, or the radio play, rather, that you should have deserved?
00:12:05.000Yeah, I was shocked in the beginning that some of the critics who made us their darlings when we were a nobody band in New York City, once we became successful, even in the earliest days,
00:13:07.000Well, you know, it's not unusual in certain circles that certain people want to outdo each other by knowing something more obscure than the...
00:16:19.000A lot of times your perception of what something will be like in your life turns out to be completely false.
00:16:26.000What we expect aging to be or what we expect certain people to be like, it's all based on preconceived notions that have no basis in reality.
00:16:36.000Yeah, and this is the first generation, really, that's seeing rock stars deep into their 60s.
00:16:52.000When rock and roll first started, With the exception of certain artists, it really was a factory for record companies to create talent.
00:17:07.000When you got tired of Fabian, they gave you Frankie Avalon.
00:17:11.000When you got tired of Frankie Avalon, they gave you Jimmy Clanton.
00:17:15.000They had all these teen idols and they just spoon-fed you and spoon-fed them songs.
00:17:21.000Once you got tired of them, there was somebody else who came along.
00:17:25.000Once bands started writing their own material, they got the chance to reflect their point of view, and as long as it reflected the fans' point of view, they could get older.
00:17:35.000Rock and roll now has become much more like the blues, because you're constantly writing about your life, and as long as people can relate to it, you know, the day I start writing about...
00:17:47.000You know, the butler didn't show up today or something like that.
00:17:58.000Yeah, I'm sure the whole audience is going, yeah, we got one of those too.
00:18:02.000Yeah, I guess they forced him to not do stand-up while he was doing Home Improvement because he had sort of a risque act and that was like a very family-friendly show.
00:18:10.000And then when he stopped doing it, he came back.
00:18:12.000And when he came back, you know, he's...
00:19:23.000I mean, he's essentially what you were talking about before.
00:19:25.000The people that the studios create, they write the songs for them, they put these artists, they prop them up, they put them into position.
00:19:31.000But now here he is, this 20-year-old boy trying to manage essentially unmanageable fame.
00:19:38.000Yeah, but it starts with your family and it starts with your parents.
00:19:42.000And if your parents aren't there to give you a foundation and to be there to tell you when you're going off the rails, then you're in a lot of trouble.
00:19:51.000So I really, when I see a kid in trouble, I look at the parents.
00:20:05.000When you see a young guy like that, like a young 20-year-old guy who's just ridiculously famous, and you think about your life and your career, you guys did it in a very unusual way.
00:20:18.000And one of the things that was very unusual is that you wore makeup.
00:21:18.000Now, did you ever, during this time where you're sort of craving recognition, when you guys were massively successful on the cover of all these magazines, did you ever want to just put the Starchild outfit on and just walk around with no makeup on and go, hey, look at this magazine.
00:22:39.000You're going to know who the fuck that guy is.
00:22:41.000His friends are going to go, dude, your mouth looks a lot like Batman's mouth.
00:22:44.000That's the beauty of fantasy and comic books.
00:22:47.000Yes, the beauty of fantasy and comic books.
00:22:49.000Well, you guys kind of merged those worlds.
00:22:51.000Yeah, and we really have created these iconic figures and these personalities that exist with us and without us and will continue to exist, whether it's comic books or merchandise.
00:26:09.000It's probably the difference between what it was like to be president 50, 60, 70 years ago and today.
00:26:19.000And the kind of scandals that Clinton or some of the other politicians have had, all that stuff was still going on back, you know, in the time of FDR or Kennedy.
00:26:30.000But it was just – it wasn't public knowledge.
00:26:35.000It wasn't – You didn't see somebody, somebody didn't walk out of a hotel bedroom with somebody else and have their picture taken, and all of a sudden it was all over the media.
00:27:04.000It depends on how much bad stuff you're doing.
00:27:07.000Well, I don't even know if you could say bad or good, but it seems like there's a lot of people that embrace it and exploit it.
00:27:14.000Like, do you remember for a long time, it was like for a year or so, women were getting accidentally photographed with no panties on getting out of cars.
00:27:23.000And it was pretty obvious by just the angle of the photograph.
00:27:27.000Like, how the fuck do you not know there's a camera down there?
00:28:58.000The idea that somebody is taking songs or music off the internet and taking it for free and calling it file sharing is like me saying transportation borrowing and I steal your car.
00:29:22.000And when people create art with the...
00:29:26.000Hope of being not only accepted, but also being rewarded so that they can pay their rent and send their kids to school and things like that.
00:29:40.000But the person who steals on the internet somehow doesn't feel the same as going into a store and stealing a cassette, which don't even exist anymore.
00:29:52.000But if you go into a store, if you go into Barnes& Noble or someplace and steal a book, that's blatantly and very clearly illegal.
00:30:03.000Downloading something somehow skirts the ethical and moral question of taking something that doesn't belong to you and not paying the person for it.
00:30:14.000Look, for me, it's a question more about morality in my case.
00:30:21.000But it sure bothers me that somebody is taking what they don't own, and it bothers me that somebody who's trying to succeed now and starting off doesn't have a chance in hell, more than likely, of success.
00:30:38.000Ever getting that pot of gold, you know?
00:30:40.000But they get the pot of gold in a different way.
00:30:42.000They get it through live performances.
00:30:44.000They're not getting it through album sales.
00:30:46.000Yeah, but that shouldn't be dictated to by the circumstances.
00:31:03.000I completely see your point, and I agree with you in a lot of ways, but I think that the reality of the times we're living in, like the digital world that we're living in, property is just, it's a very, it's a weird term when you talk about like digital property, like digital properties,
00:31:58.000I mean, he was thought of as persona non grata.
00:32:02.000I mean, people went after that guy with a vengeance.
00:32:05.000A lot of artists sat back and waited to see how the dust settled on that.
00:32:10.000Well, a lot of artists are wondering where their royalties are now.
00:32:15.000You can't put milk back in a bottle, spilled milk, and unfortunately, things transpired that there's really no getting around at this point.
00:32:34.000It has nothing to do with whether he's wealthy or not.
00:32:36.000Who are you to dictate that he has enough?
00:32:40.000I agree with you, but I think the way people were looking at it that didn't have a vested interest in it, the way they were looking at it is, it's very obvious that the reality of the world that we're living in is changing radically, as far as access to information and songs.
00:33:01.000I'm not diminishing it in any way, shape, or form, but that art becomes information when it becomes ones and zeros.
00:33:07.000And once ones and zeros go online, they go online.
00:33:10.000I mean, it's almost impossible to stem the tide.
00:33:14.000And when you see a guy like Lars Ulrich stepping out there in the early days, When people maybe thought that there was a way to put a stop to this, when people didn't...
00:33:34.000Is there a way to sort of meet in the middle?
00:33:37.000Like, I've always had this attitude where if someone sends me something or, you know, someone sends me a YouTube link to a song, if I like it, I immediately buy the album.
00:34:06.000You're listening to it on an iPhone or on a laptop or something like that?
00:34:12.000Look, there's a can of worms open here, and I really don't know what the answer is, but I do know that technology does not take the place of morality.
00:34:24.000I'm saying, is it possible to incorporate the both of them?
00:34:26.000Well, you were saying, is it possible to meet in the middle?
00:34:29.000And I would say, why do I have to meet you in the middle?
00:34:32.000Why do I have to compromise because of circumstance?
00:34:35.000You should respect my integrity and you should respect my art instead of me going, all right, well, you got me, so I'll take 50 cents on the dollar instead of you giving me the dollar?
00:34:52.000I see what you're saying, but if someone sends you a link and says, hey, Paul, there's this fantastic band, you've got to listen to this, and it's a YouTube link, do you just not click it?
00:35:23.000I would say that whenever money is changing hands, the artist should be a part of that.
00:35:29.000So, if commercials are being showed on YouTube, and revenue is being, if there's a revenue stream, then the artist should be sharing in that.
00:35:43.000It's an interesting question because if I saw a band on television, hopefully I would see somebody and go, gee, I want to go buy their album.
00:36:00.000either first hand or second hand and there's an artist involved the artist should be compensated unquestionably but do you feel like there's a difference between someone who's selling like pirate copies like I used to always feel real uncomfortable with that when I'd be in New York And they would sell these pirate copies of VHS tapes.
00:38:31.000But do you see a possible point of view, and I'm playing devil's advocate here, you see a possible point of view for a young, poor kid who doesn't have any money, who's a huge Kiss fan, who just, you know, wants to be able to listen to your music and just can't afford it, can't afford to buy it,
00:39:42.000But if you weren't going to buy it anyway, and someone just gives it to you, is it possible?
00:39:46.000I mean, that's one of the points of view that people have today, is If I wasn't going to buy a particular album, we're going back to records or cassettes, and you gave it to me, you already paid for it.
00:39:56.000So, if you pay for something and then give it to me, okay, maybe there's a point there, but the idea that you took something for free and gave it to me, no.
00:40:07.000Well, if I took something and I paid for it and made a copy of it, though.
00:40:16.000But I completely respect your opinion, and I completely respect your point of view.
00:40:21.000And mind you, it doesn't change my life one bit.
00:40:24.000I think it's ethically and morally wrong, but my concern more is for somebody who's up and coming, or somebody who says, you know, I'm just doing this for the art of it.
00:41:21.000The great thing about having money and success, I found, is that you stop putting the onus on things that have no relevance ultimately to your happiness or your state of mind.
00:41:35.000In other words, the idea, I'm not unhappy because the I don't have money to pay the bills.
00:41:40.000I can pay the bills now, and I'm still unhappy.
00:41:44.000So I think the great thing about becoming successful, hopefully, and sometimes it's people's downfall, and that's why people wind up with a shotgun in their mouth or a needle in their arm, is because they think that success is going to buy them happiness, and they wind up miserable.
00:42:02.000And then you have to, you know, you have your come to Jesus moment when you decide, okay, what now?
00:42:08.000You either spend a whole lot of money on psychiatry or therapy, or you start numbing yourself.
00:42:16.000What I found is the moment I started making money, what happened was all of a sudden I felt a weight lifted off of me.
00:42:22.000Where most of my life I was day to day, bill to bill, worrying about how I'm going to pay this, how am I going to pay my rent, put gas in my car.
00:42:30.000And then when I started making money, all of a sudden that went away.
00:42:33.000You know, I wasn't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I knew that I could pay my bills.
00:42:37.000I was like, whoa, that's a huge relief that most people really never get to experience in their life.
00:42:44.000People tend to go, if I had this, I would be happy.
00:42:47.000The great thing about having that is finding out whether or not you truly are happy.
00:42:54.000In my case, I was still pretty miserable, and that That's really what my book is about.
00:43:02.000I had a New York Times number two bestseller, and the book is now in Swedish, Japanese, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, and on and on.
00:43:17.000And really, I was born deaf on one side, without a right ear, and in a family that wasn't very supportive.
00:43:53.000Look, it takes a person with a plethora, a vast amount of insecurity to be comfortable in front of a crowd.
00:44:06.000The fact that you want to get up in front of a crowd and get approval from a mass of people only says I mean, it speaks volumes about your lack of self-confidence.
00:44:19.000So just the fact that you want to be an entertainer, a comedian, whatever it is, and be in the limelight, means that you're seeking approval that you innately don't have.
00:44:29.000A disproportionate amount of need when it comes to attention, when it comes to love, usually corresponds to a lack of that in childhood.
00:45:27.000The fact that there's all these people who drop like flies from all kinds of addictions is just proof that people can be famous and miserable and it doesn't really satiate what's wrong inside you.
00:45:45.000Fame gives you an amazing opportunity to go out there and seek help.
00:45:50.000And, you know, when I was in my teens, I walked into Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, went into the psychiatry division and went, I need some help.
00:46:07.000I've always been a survivor and somebody who wanted to...
00:46:12.000Not only succeed, not only survive, but thrive.
00:46:15.000So I found myself realizing that if I kept on the path that my parents were the role model for, I was going to be in a whole lot of trouble.
00:47:56.000You know, being born with any kind of difference, any kind of facial difference, deformity or whatever, makes you incredibly not only vulnerable, but you're exposed to a point of...
00:49:29.000I've had more great times than anybody could ever imagine.
00:49:34.000They were transitory, but they were spectacular.
00:49:39.000But happiness ultimately comes from the most simple things.
00:49:44.000Interaction with people, great friends, family, and inner contentment.
00:49:50.000When you step off the stage, you leave that crowd.
00:49:54.000Look, I did shows at Madison Square Garden, and you may have been at one of them.
00:49:58.000Where I would walk off stage after 18,000 people went crazy and I went to a deli by myself and went, nobody would fucking believe I'm here by myself and I just stepped off this stage.
00:50:11.000So there's a huge chasm between who you are in the public and who you are off stage.
00:50:20.000And the person off stage is the person you have to live with.
00:50:24.000And managing that bizarre dichotomy, the sensory input, must be very strange, too.
00:51:11.000Well, I think better than advice, what you've done is, in your book, explaining with extreme honesty how you felt about those situations, how you felt as a young man growing up with this situation with your ear.
00:51:25.000You give people insight into someone who, you know, a lot of people who look at you and they go, this guy's never had a hard day in his life.
00:52:11.000I make the analogy, you know, you can live your life like that.
00:52:15.000Sure, it protects you, but you get nothing.
00:52:20.000You know, you can hit people and push them away, but it's not until you're willing to open up your hand.
00:52:26.000Giving becomes its own reward, whether you're giving to people with support or inspiration or you're giving people monetarily.
00:52:35.000Charity or a charitable spirit is ultimately the most rewarding, you know, one of the most rewarding things I've ever been able to experience is giving and helping others.
00:52:56.000And quite honestly, when it was explained to me, it seemed ridiculous.
00:53:02.000But when you stop judging other people and you accept, look, it's very easy to look at some guy panhandling on the street and say, why don't you go get a job?
00:53:13.000You have no idea what that person is living or what nightmare he goes through or she goes through every day.
00:53:21.000Would giving them some money or giving them some food really change your life any?
00:53:31.000It should feel good to do that instead of kicking somebody who's down.
00:53:35.000It's a small person who tries to make someone else feel smaller.
00:53:39.000Well, you've done a great job in your book of...
00:53:43.000Being vulnerable and very open and in a way that a lot of people fail when it comes to autobiographies.
00:53:51.000Autobiographies are very tricky animals.
00:53:53.000George Orwell said that the autobiography is the most outrageous form of fiction.
00:53:58.000And that's probably why I never wanted to write one, because to just bolster yourself up or to have bragging rights about something that may not have even happened is pointless.
00:54:11.000For me, the epiphany came when I realized that I could write a book that my children would benefit from when they were old enough.
00:54:20.000I have a 20-year-old and a 3-year-old.
00:54:23.000So, my 20 year olds read it and I think it's important for when you're successful for your children to know what it took for you to become successful and that it perhaps wasn't as easy and that the road wasn't as smooth.
00:54:39.000So, my whole reason to write My story started there, but then it started to snowball in the sense that I began to realize that there's a lot of people out there who could use some inspiration and also some insight because we all tend to think of ourselves as singular and nobody's like us.
00:55:02.000Boy, I'm fucked up and nobody else, you know, goes through this.
00:55:05.000And when somebody else says, hey, I'm afraid of this or I'm afraid of that.
00:57:11.000They don't want to go home because they have nothing.
00:57:14.000They either don't have family or they don't have something that satisfies them and makes them feel whole.
00:57:21.000And I think what we all owe ourselves, I certainly think so, is to go out and find what you need to feel contentment without the approval of the masses.
00:57:34.000I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I think that a lot of rock stars, a lot of actors, they want to portray an image, and that image is very valuable to them.
00:57:44.000They want to, what they call, protect their brand.
00:57:46.000And by divulging any past insecurities, or by showing any chinks in their armor emotionally, they feel like, you know, somehow or another this will be either used against them, or it'll diminish the publication.
00:58:17.000To accomplish what you set out for and have the public perceive you to be something amazing and still you feel like crap.
00:58:30.000I recommend figure out what you need to feel good about yourself because you're going to need that constant fix of people telling you you're great and the moment it stops, you ain't great.
00:58:44.000I've never had a problem with depression but I've had a lot of friends who have and so I've always wondered what is the cause, whether it's circumstantial, whether it's the experiences that they have in their life, whether it's genetic, whether it's a combination of both.
00:59:00.000For you, when you started to get over this, like when you're 19, how old were you when you went to the Sea of Sinai?
00:59:07.000I started therapy when I was probably 16. 16. So you're 16, you go into this doctor's office.
00:59:51.000I needed a lifeline, and that's what therapy was for me.
00:59:55.000I don't know that it changed my life initially, but it changed...
00:59:58.000Look, if you go work out, when you first start working out, you don't see results immediately, but you have the hope, and the hope is what drives you, is the desire in knowing that if I do this...
01:00:18.000Therapy, like everything else, it's not an immediate gratification or immediate solution, but it gives you the knowledge that you're on a path.
01:01:52.000I was thinking, this is a recipe for disaster.
01:01:57.000It's amazing that you had that kind of insight as a young man, experiencing fame, especially with your background, your childhood, being bullied and feeling insecure, and then all of a sudden it's all coming at you and you're like, whoa, I don't think my fucking surfboard can handle this wave.
01:03:00.000That's something that's great for me because once I started sharing my issues and the struggles that I had, I could see that I was lightening the load for somebody else.
01:03:13.000It's very easy for parents to say, oh, you're just like everybody else.
01:03:17.000I think most of that comes out of guilt.
01:03:19.000I think most of that comes out of, you want to believe that because you feel terrible for your child, but your child doesn't need to hear that.
01:03:25.000Your child needs to hear Yeah, life is tougher for you.
01:03:31.000I'll sit down with a kid and say, I don't know what you've heard, but life is tougher for you.
01:04:12.000Satisfaction of being able to go out there and give something back.
01:04:19.000It's really one of the greatest gifts of my life, is being at a point now where I can give back and feel like I'm doing something other than making people happy with music.
01:04:33.000And make an impact not just one-on-one, but you could reach millions.
01:04:38.000Obviously, this book, Face the Music, seems to have resonated with people because it's not being looked at as another one of those rock and roll autobiographies, which honestly really should be on a roll of tissue paper,
01:04:54.000so you could use it for something more appropriate.
01:04:58.000But, you know, it seems to resonate with people, and the word I hear from people is that they're inspired by it.
01:05:04.000And, you know, my journey is not that different than somebody else's, and maybe it makes it easier knowing that somebody who you look up to is on the same path.
01:06:33.000So how does a psychiatrist or a psychologist, whichever one it is, how does someone help a guy like you?
01:06:40.000Because I would think that you would have to have some sort of perspective.
01:06:43.000Like if a person is, if I come to a psychiatrist and say, hey man, I'm an insurance salesman, and I don't know what it is, but I'm miserable, I can't find any happiness in my life, and this is what I'm doing, I'm self-sabotaging, this is what I'm doing wrong.
01:06:55.000But when someone comes to a psychiatrist or a psychologist and says, Hey, I'm the lead singer of one of the biggest fucking bands in the world.
01:07:30.000Honestly, I think the truth is always the truth and the foundation for an insurance salesman is no different than the foundation for any rock star or what have you.
01:07:42.000I think having a strong sense of self and having a good sense of what the world is and isn't.
01:07:53.000I think a lot of times Part of what makes us feel so in doubt is our misconceptions of what other people are thinking or what other people are going through.
01:08:04.000Again, it goes back to, I'm not normal.
01:08:07.000I have all these fears and doubts, and they don't.
01:08:11.000So a lot of times I think we need to have our perspective integrated so that we understand that we're not that different than other people and also whatever issues we have, we get to talk about and somebody kind of helps us reflect and points us in the right direction.
01:08:33.000Look, I first walked into a therapist thinking they were going to say, okay, here's what you do and you'll be fine.
01:09:15.000And I think that, if anything, it should make you aware that maybe there's someone out there or something out there that can take you the next step.
01:09:41.000So when you were 16 and you first started going to this guy or gal, whoever it was, and you sat down and you start going over your life, how do they sort of mold you into a happier person or give you the tools to mold yourself into a happier person?
01:10:38.000In talking, just the process of going over these ideas with someone who gives you a different perspective or gives you...
01:10:46.000We show up every week and it's kind of like, what did you do this week?
01:10:49.000And you can talk about things and talk about relationships or what somebody you're going out with said and how you responded or what you think.
01:10:59.000And somebody could pose a question or ask you, what do you think?
01:11:04.000It's really just a great conversation where somebody is leading you, perhaps, to look at things a little differently.
01:11:54.000It may deal with what is going on in the present, but ultimately it's got to get to the core because you can't change things unless you change the wiring.
01:12:09.000The most simplistic wiring is what's responsible for what comes later.
01:12:20.000It's very rare that someone ever gets a chance to hear a guy like you discuss this stuff so openly and bravely and honestly.
01:12:28.000Interestingly, I don't think it's brave.
01:12:34.000I don't think it's brave because the people who don't talk about it I haven't come to terms with it and maybe haven't rewired,
01:12:49.000fixed themselves, come to grips with things in their life.
01:12:52.000To me, it's just, it's reality and there's no vulnerability attached to it.
01:12:59.000I think when you're still in the midst of it, you don't want to divulge certain things because it's not only inappropriate, but it can come back to be used against you.
01:13:09.000Once you start sharing your vulnerabilities and you're still vulnerable, then people can use them.
01:13:41.000I'm talking about a journey that got me to this place in my life now, which is a great place.
01:13:50.000And I always felt that if somebody uses them against you, if you share something with someone that uses it against you, then you know what kind of person that is.
01:13:56.000Right, but that's a tough lesson to learn, and why put yourself in that position?
01:16:34.000But there are certainly a lot of people in the performance field who love the spotlight and tolerate you speaking so that they get their chance.
01:16:48.000Yeah, going from musicians to actors looking for depth is like going from a pool to the ocean looking for wetter water.
01:17:28.000And, you know, it's like I wanted to have an umbrella.
01:17:32.000I wanted an umbrella because it seemed to be raining in this place.
01:17:34.000But I know certainly there are a lot of people in different fields of the art who feel that their creativity is based on their being unhappy or their, you know, discontent.
01:17:54.000We've experienced the same thing with stand-up comedians.
01:17:57.000A lot of stand-up comedians almost believe that you have to be miserable outside of being on stage in order to create, and that your reward for being miserable is that when you're killing, when you're on stage and everybody's dying laughing, this is what you get to experience that other people don't, so that when you're not doing this,
01:18:26.000People are becoming more aware of the fact that there's no individual singular path to any creative endeavor, whether it's music or whether it's painting.
01:18:36.000There's a lot of different ways to do it, and you could be really good at it without being miserable.
01:18:41.000Yeah, there are people, and I certainly experience people who are afraid to be happy because it will affect their creativity.
01:18:48.000And I gotta tell you, you know, happiness is probably the best additive to creativity.
01:18:58.000When I was young, this is how stupid I was, when I first started doing stand-up comedy, I actually stopped meditating because I was worried.
01:19:05.000I was like, if I become too calm and if I achieve any sort of enlightenment, this will fuck up my subject matter.
01:19:12.000Because part of being a stand-up comedian is about kind of being rude or at least being shocking in a way.
01:19:24.000Yeah, but that sharpness and peace of mind and contentment that can come from yoga therapy, a happy home life, whatever, is something that can really enhance whatever your creative outlet is.
01:19:39.000And it's just always interesting to see people who are afraid to be happy.
01:19:45.000Yeah, there's many engines of motivation.
01:19:49.000They don't always necessarily have to be negative.
01:19:51.000And that's why I was curious about your approach, because you were coming from this place of negativity, but you figured out how to channel it into a positive perspective.
01:23:15.000Yeah, I've always found issues with people that choose this monastic lifestyle, seeing that that's like the most simple path.
01:23:23.000But you're missing out on some of the most beautiful joys of life because you believe that you can't handle relationships or you can't handle being a father or you can't handle the pursuit of art or whatever you're doing.
01:23:36.000Well, you know, to take the other side of the coin, maybe they're right.
01:24:07.000So if the Dalai Lama or anybody else is happy, you know, leading some sort of monastic life or being celibate or whatever, He thinks he's happy.
01:24:18.000He's never been one of them Paul Stanley orgies, like on those album covers, one of those gigantic heart-shaped beds, and you've got 50 tens swarming you.
01:24:25.000He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
01:24:30.000He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
01:24:31.000Yeah, I've always been very conscious about not projecting that to other people when it comes to how much...
01:24:38.000Children has changed me that you need to do it because I used to resent that when I was single and people talk to me about oh You need to get married and have kids but get the fuck out of here like no man kids change I'm better because of kids.
01:24:49.000Yeah, you need to have kids in your life You need to fuck off.
01:24:52.000Yeah, you know like I hate proselytizing so when people would do that I'm very conscious.
01:24:57.000There's nothing worse than a reformed hooker, right?
01:25:05.000Go about your life and understand and realize that everybody has their own path and that what worked for you and is working for you may have absolutely no relevance to their life whatsoever.
01:25:16.000You know, somebody a couple of days ago was saying to me, you know, again, so-and-so, when I see people that don't have kids, I really think they're missing out.
01:25:24.000I go, they may be missing out on nothing because they're not equipped to have kids or they wouldn't get what you're getting out of it or what you're getting out of your relationship or your marriage.
01:25:33.000Some people, you know, everybody just needs to find their own contentment, whether it's in an orange robe or underneath an orange robe with a blonde.
01:25:44.000I just think it's hard for some folks to balance that perspective, to say, you know, they think of how much they love their children, how much they love their family, and they couldn't imagine being without it.
01:25:53.000So they see someone, they say, well, you can't possibly be happy because you're not living my life.
01:26:31.000No, but it's so easy to – in relationships, you'll hear somebody say something, and you just take for granted, oh, they can mean something totally different.
01:26:43.000It's always important to say to somebody, what do you mean?
01:27:54.000The greatest advances often come from the lowest lows, like to realize, like, okay, this is a complete failure.
01:28:03.000Let's put the pieces back together again and figure out why I failed and then move forward.
01:28:08.000You can't really relate to that because you became a rock star when you were 21. The person who succeeds is the one who continued after they failed.
01:28:36.000And perhaps if I had known how long it would take to see those adjustments come to some sort of fruition, maybe I would have thought twice about it.
01:28:48.000It goes back to, you can't kid yourself.
01:28:50.000You can kid everybody else around you, and you can say, I'm okay, and you can convince people that you're great or whatever you want, but you know the truth.
01:29:03.000You're obviously a very content, very happy person now.
01:29:06.000How long did it take while this rockstar rollercoaster ride was going on before you really felt comfortable with it all?
01:29:18.000Well, I was married before, and perhaps what marriage, like a bad marriage, can teach you, like anything else in life, it can teach you what you don't want, you know?
01:29:28.000And I needed to go through a marriage that wasn't great and got a great son out of it and just continued on the path.
01:29:41.000It's kind of like getting off the wrong exit, you know?
01:29:45.000I saw some very interesting scenery and then I got back on the freeway.
01:29:53.000It's been an ongoing path and I'd say the last 15-20 years have been like just better and better and better.
01:31:20.000The rollercoaster ride of doing, you know, being in a rock and roll band and being some international superstar has got to make it very difficult to keep a relationship, too, because you're always focused on so many different things.
01:31:32.000You've got the songs putting together, you're dealing with the inner complications of being in the band, you're touring, you're putting on albums, a lot of pressure and stress as well, right?
01:32:03.000Isn't that the thing that always happens in bands?
01:32:05.000A girl gets in there, whether it's a lead singer or a lead guitarist, has a wife who all of a sudden steps into the picture and she starts telling the other guys they have to shape up or do this.
01:36:05.000In a sense, yeah, because you pale next to kissing makeup.
01:36:12.000But it got us through, let's see, it was probably 13 years probably without makeup.
01:36:22.000And, you know, we honed our skills and also readdressed and recommitted ourselves to what we once were and worked our way back and sold a lot of albums.
01:36:36.000But understandably, people think of them as the lean years.
01:36:40.000Those lean years would make most bands fat.
01:36:43.000Yeah, well, Lick It Up is still one of my all-time favorites.
01:36:46.000But when you guys took the makeup off, what was that transition like?
01:36:50.000To go from being a famous person who has almost a non-famous face to being a famous person that now everybody's like, oh!
01:37:47.000I wanted that album without makeup, and we kind of...
01:37:50.000Understandably, Gene was much more reluctant than I was, so Lick It Up was when we took it off.
01:37:57.000And we were more in touch with ourselves.
01:38:01.000So after 13 years, I remember thinking, if we're going to get back together with the other guys who I swore I would never do again, now's the time because I don't know if these guys are going to live that much longer.
01:39:59.000There was a car wash, and one of the guys says to me, boy, I loved the farewell tour.
01:40:05.000When are you doing the 35th anniversary tour?
01:40:07.000And I went, you don't want us to be gone?
01:40:10.000And I realized that really what the farewell tour was, was saying farewell to those guys again.
01:40:15.000And I would never give up the makeup again, and I would never give up the band.
01:40:21.000The stance of the band has always been that the band is bigger than the individuals.
01:40:26.000And to suddenly have people who were sabotaging and compromising the band and the fans suddenly in charge to say the band was over was just not going to happen.
01:40:40.000So since then it's been, you know, just really just pretty amazing.
01:40:47.000What's the difference between going back and putting the makeup on once people already know what your face looks like and, you know, not?
01:40:55.000It's a different time in my life, a different person, and really terrific to be able to experience that kind of phenomenal success at a different point in my life where I appreciate it in a different way.
01:41:08.000Most people don't get to do that, you know, to regain the championship and smell the roses or whatever when you're a little bit more equipped to appreciate it in a different way.
01:41:23.000To real Kiss fans when you guys made that reunion tour and you got back together with Peter Criss and Ace Frehley.
01:41:30.000Kevin James, you know Kevin James from King of Queens?
01:42:25.000I just found myself in a position where there was no choice except to change things.
01:42:32.000But look, all I can tell you is the band has never been better, never sounded better, never been more the band that I wanted to be because there are four people now who Truly love and respect the band and want to do what's best for the band and not what's best for them as individuals.
01:42:51.000Everybody in the band will swallow their ego and their pride, me included, to do what's best for the band.
01:42:58.000And that's a great, you know, we built something great on, once again, it goes back to foundation.
01:43:05.000You can't build anything without a great foundation, whether it's your personality and your life or a band.
01:43:11.000So we've got a great foundation, but what we've built on it is pretty terrific, pretty tremendous.
01:43:18.000It's probably much more difficult to take something for granted when you came into the band as a fan of the band.
01:43:30.000Yeah, and honestly, they are tremendous contributors and great to be around, and we all socialize, which is something terrific.
01:43:42.000The combustibility of that original band was perhaps what made it in the beginning, but made it inevitable that it would...
01:43:50.000Combust you know it was it was so volatile.
01:43:53.000I really hoped when we did the reunion that we could move forward and take the band and see it to the you know happily ever after but you know the Wizard of Oz it's just it's not it's not it's not that it's just not that way.
01:44:14.000Well, even, you know, as you describe your own life, the change of your perception of the world was a slow, gradual thing with a conscious effort.
01:44:23.000Without that conscious effort, change is virtually impossible.
01:44:26.000And these guys just getting this second chance probably gave them a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of, you know, I'll never do it again, because they recognize, like, wow, holy shit, I'm in Kiss again.
01:44:41.000If you're more concerned and driven or ruined by what someone else has rather than what you have, if you're more concerned with me making more money than you, which is just a given because I never left the band once or twice.
01:44:58.000So that became a big issue once you guys...
01:45:00.000Well, it surfaced, and it was only one of, you know, a lot of issues that once again came to the surface, but that was one that was not negotiable.
01:45:11.000And did you think that it could have possibly even helped?
01:45:13.000I mean, if you said, okay, listen, guys, we're back, we're the band, let's go 25% all around.
01:45:20.000That's a movie we already saw and it didn't work.
01:45:23.000We did that the first time around and it didn't work.
01:45:26.000And here we are 13 or 15 years later bringing two guys back in who are virtually broke and have no career into a band that has maintained platinum status.
01:45:41.000And you don't come in as a partner or an equal.
01:45:45.000You come in as someone who is Paid and salaried.
01:45:53.000Now mind you, once again, when rejoining the band is making you a millionaire again, I wouldn't bring out any hankies to wipe my tears away.
01:46:16.000I could see how they could get bitter about it.
01:46:18.000But once again, there was more to it than that.
01:46:21.000And again, drugs and sycophantic relationships and overinflated ideas of who they were and what they could do, it just didn't work.
01:46:37.000Well, it seems like with every band, there's always this ultimate conflict.
01:46:42.000And one of the things that you guys have managed to do is whatever conflicts that you've had with Gene, you guys have managed to stay together.
01:47:08.000Yeah, and we're together because we have a common bond, and we have something that we believe in, and we have a work ethic, and we put other stuff aside.
01:47:18.000I mean, there's been times certainly where we weren't getting along very well at all or not speaking, but we're in the band together.
01:47:26.000So you were not speaking, but yet you were playing together.
01:47:29.000There have been some times of some real resentment and real anger, but so what?
01:47:37.000I mean, we're still here, and we do what's best for the band and always have.
01:49:10.000And not using your work as an escape from your life.
01:49:15.000And a lot of performers, I won't say most, but a lot of performers use their work as an escape to get away from a life that they don't like.
01:49:24.000And is this something that you've figured out over the years through therapy and through thinking and through analyzing and being objective?
01:51:35.000We're really gearing up for something great.
01:51:37.000And at the end of this month, we do the Kiss Cruise, which goes out every year and has about 3,500 fans from 33 countries around the world get on the ship and spend four days traveling.
01:51:49.000Rockin' and Rollin', bring other bands out.
01:52:34.000Yeah, I would think that that would be the one thing that was like, I know Opie and Anthony were gonna do a boat tour, and I was like, man, good luck with all that.
01:52:43.000I have to say, the first year I dreaded, you know, I dreaded the idea of it, and four years into it, I mean, my family comes, it's awesome.
01:52:53.000Well, it's gotta be amazing to have 3,500 fans on a boat with you.
01:52:57.000Well, the beautiful thing about it is that They're from all walks of life.
01:53:02.000I mean, a guy last year was in full gear, all my full gear, and gave me a book.
01:53:08.000He was a doctor, and he wrote a book on forensic science.
01:53:11.000Full gear meaning he's dressed like you?
01:55:53.000Somehow he looked at something and painted it, and it's a very interesting film.
01:55:57.000It's a documentary, but fascinating, and they're the ones behind the film.
01:56:02.000Well, Penn's a very unique thinker, and he's also a guy, no drugs, no alcohol, no nothing, yet he lives in Vegas, works in show business, was a carny at one point in time, you know, is a professional magician, you know, all those things you would think a guy who's Crazy,