In this episode, Dr. Randall Carlson returns from a trip to the Landscapes of Catastrophe with Graham Hancock to talk about his new book, Fingerprints of the Gods: The Lost Civilization of Pre-Human Origins . Dr. Carl Sagan has long believed that there was a lost civilization that had existed in pre-history, but where is the evidence of it? And why did it disappear? And how did it happen? And what role did it play in the evolution of our modern world? In this episode Dr. Carlson and Dr. Hancock discuss the evidence that supports this theory, and explore the implications for our understanding of the origins of human civilization. This is an [Expert] level episode, which means some parts of the conversation may not make sense unless you ve listened to the entire thing. So if you haven t checked that out, you ll have to wait until next week for the next episode of the podcast! Enjoy this one! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe, Like, and Share, and Subscribe to our new podcast on whatever you're listening to! It helps spread the word to the rest of the universe! Thank you for listening and share it around! Peace, Blessings, Cheers, EJ and Cheers! - EJ & Joe - Randall and Joe - The Energetic - Caitlyn Hopkins and Chew Chew - Ed & Joe xx ( ) "The Energet it on Podchaser" (p. (Astro_tweet ) (Podcasts) (YouTube) . (R.S. , :D) (PODCAST & PODCAST_ (TODAY'S EPISODES is a podcast about the future of space travel and other stuff that's going to be out there? (COMING SOONER than you'll get a chance to listen to it? ) (?) (HAPPY EVERYTHING! (PRODCAST WITH ME AND OTHER THAN YOU'LL GET A PRODUCED IN AVAILABLE ON THE NEXT EPISODE!) (CHECK OUT THE FIRST AND OTHER LINKS THAT'S COMING SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT'LL SEE US NEXT WEEK?!)
00:00:52.000After the first time I met you, we had that long conversation in Atlanta.
00:00:57.000I knew once you sat down for three hours on a podcast and opened up about that stuff, it was really going to uncork a lot of people's domes.
00:01:06.000Well, you know, ironically, there's an upside to the whole thing.
00:01:09.000Maybe we'll have time to get into that a little bit today.
00:01:12.000So tell me, you just returned from a long excursion with Graham Hancock.
00:01:32.000I was taking Graham on a tour, showing him some landscapes.
00:01:38.000I could call him the Landscapes of Catastrophe.
00:01:42.000Because he's doing his sequel to Fingerprints of the Gods.
00:01:46.000And you know, when he came out with that book in 1995, he was theorizing that there had been this lost civilization in prehistoric times.
00:01:54.000And you know, the critics, the gist of most of what the critics were attacking him on, and there were considerable attacks on him as a result of some of the things he put forward in that book, was that Well, if there was this great civilization that had existed somewhere back in prehistory,
00:02:19.000Where is the infrastructure that would have existed?
00:02:24.000And, you know, I don't know if he really had an answer for that other than the fact that, you know, there had been cataclysmic events that had intervened between then and now.
00:02:34.000But he wasn't really specific about what the nature of those catastrophes actually were.
00:02:40.000And a lot of additional research has come out since 1995 that basically opens the window onto those events that basically separates our modern history which you know the recorded history goes back five or six thousand years you know when we look at at the emergence of modern civilization we would basically trace it back to nine or ten thousand years ago with the emergence of of you know agriculture the
00:03:10.000dispersion of languages the first cities and so forth when we go beyond that a few thousand years We're in a completely different world and I mean so completely different that it's almost unrecognizable from our modern world.
00:03:26.000If we started recreating maps going backwards like taking snapshots of the planet every millennium going back what we would see is that going back to seven or eight thousand years ago the basic configuration of our planet would not change much.
00:03:43.000Once we get 11, 12, 13 thousand years ago, the changes become profoundly dramatic.
00:03:49.000We start seeing sea levels going down hundreds of feet.
00:03:52.000We see massive ice sheets covering North America and Europe and lots of other enormous changes.
00:04:00.000Beyond that is what I consider to be deep history.
00:04:04.000Because, as we may have talked about in our last interview, you know, we modern humans have been on this planet for 150,000 to 200,000 years, at least.
00:04:14.000You know, if we go back, say, I think the oldest modern human skeleton ever found was named Homo adultu, and he dates to about 180,000 years, roughly.
00:04:27.000If we think of a generation of humans as 25 years, that's 7,000 generations of humans, right?
00:04:34.000Now, so, the question is, what were we doing for all those thousands of generations until somebody finally realized, hey, you know what, we can plant crops, we can, you know, we can build cities, we can form communities,
00:04:51.000you know, we can invent language, etc., etc.
00:04:54.000Well, my contention is, and I think the evidence that's accumulating supports this interpretation, that what we're really seeing Seven, eight, nine thousand years ago is not the origins of civilization, but the rebooting of civilization.
00:05:11.000And when we go back and we realize that Modern history is separated from deep history by this extraordinary series of events that transpired between about 11 and 13 or 14 thousand years ago.
00:05:26.000Once we begin to recognize how extreme these events were in remodeling our planet, totally remodeling our planet, it then becomes obvious to us why there is not a lot of hard evidence for whatever went on prior to these events.
00:05:45.000And there's been some things that they've found since then that have really sort of made Graham Hancock's theories become more and more palatable to even mainstream scientists, like Gobekli Tepe.
00:06:49.000I question Graham on that because I wanted to know if it was...
00:06:52.000Because the first thing I thought to myself was it could be natural because I have seen so many sedimentary deposits caused by great floods.
00:07:01.000Graham assured me that it was human, that it was deliberate.
00:07:07.000Because if it had been buried by floods or water, there should be internal stratification.
00:07:14.000I've been giving it some thought, and you know what occurred to me was this, and I ran this by Graham, but I haven't gotten a response from him on this, but I started thinking, if it was deliberately buried, why would they bury it?
00:07:29.000Then I began thinking what we talked about last time when we were talking about the Tunguska event in Siberia, when you had this massive aerial detonation, you know, that was about a 15 megaton explosion.
00:07:40.000Okay, now that's equivalent to our biggest hydrogen bombs that used to be in the American arsenal.
00:07:46.000And it's just because of an asteroid that blew up in our atmosphere.
00:07:49.000Yeah, about a 150-foot diameter asteroid, which is not that big, really, relative in the cosmic scale of things.
00:07:57.000The point, though, is that it was moving really, really fast.
00:08:01.000A rifle bullet, let's say, on average is about 1,000 feet per second.
00:08:06.000An asteroid coming into the atmosphere is going to be 20 or 30 times that velocity.
00:08:12.000So it carries an enormous kinetic punch when it hits the atmosphere.
00:08:17.000It explodes because of the fact that the Earth is not actually absorbing a lot of that energy.
00:08:24.000It's dispersed widely through the atmosphere.
00:08:29.000Particularly during the height of the Cold War, in order to protect our missile silos, our super hardened command and control centers, what did we do with them?
00:09:11.000I think that what we see at the very beginnings of recorded history is an obsession with the sky.
00:09:17.000You know, and that's one of the points that Graham brings out in his work, you know, is that humans, our ancestors of 10, 12, 13,000, even, you know, much sooner than that, had just an obsessive concern with events in the sky.
00:09:31.000And, you know, all of these ancient structures, whether we're talking about Stonehenge, and I'm sure it's going to be the same case with Gobekli Tepe, When we look at this infrastructure from the Mesolithic period through the Neolithic period from six,
00:09:47.000five, four thousand years ago, three thousand years ago, what we see is that there's this concern with astronomy.
00:09:54.000The astronomical alignments that are built into these structures actually allow some pretty sophisticated observations of events happening in the sky.
00:10:04.000And we can maybe pull up some stuff here that I've brought today to look at that.
00:10:08.000But yeah, I think that it's highly plausible that people back then could have.
00:10:13.000Because think about this again, to try to put this in context.
00:10:17.000How many generations ago was the primary mode of human transportation horseback?
00:10:28.000Are you going to tell me that in all of that time, all of those generations of humans that have the same, presumably, intelligence as our own because they've got the same brain size, that they're not going to be able to come up with some kind of a transmitted tradition,
00:10:46.000some type of You know, the idea of somehow, of culture, of civilization, of language, of, you know, that's my point, is that there was so much that has been lost.
00:10:57.000Once we understand How dynamic this planet really is, it'll become clear to us why we don't have the hard physical record of things going on 20,000 or 30,000 years ago.
00:11:10.000To put it in perspective for people who have never studied ancient Egypt, Cleopatra, the pyramids, if you look at the date of the pyramids, Cleopatra is closer to us.
00:12:03.000You know, I'm not going to proclaim unequivocally, it's airplanes, but at the same time, we've got to keep an open mind about it.
00:12:11.000And the point I'm trying to make is that, yeah, there was so much time that transpired All kinds of things could have happened that have basically been erased.
00:12:19.000And hopefully by the end of today's interview, you'll have a better clear idea of specifically what some of those things really were.
00:12:28.000So we're talking about a potential civilization of maybe tens of thousands of years of growth.
00:12:33.000And if we're looking at what we have from the beginning of The dawn of civilization, we believe Mesopotamia, somewhere around 7,000 years ago.
00:12:41.000From that till today, we're talking about maybe double or triple that was lost in these gigantic cataclysmic events.
00:12:50.000Maybe 15, 20,000, 30,000 years of human beings inventing things, people building upon the inventions of others, expanding.
00:13:15.000Today, as we sit here in 2015, it's not nearly so easy to dismiss that anymore, particularly what we now know about the history of this planet and how truly dynamic it has been.
00:13:24.000And that we have, in effect, been sort of blessed the last 6,000 to 10,000 years with a relatively stable climate.
00:13:31.000And I'm going to show you some graphs here that really will blow your mind, that really will underscore how significant some of these changes have been, how profound some of them have been.
00:13:42.000And once we know that and begin to incorporate that into our thinking, we realize we're going to have to kind of reevaluate our models of prehistory.
00:13:52.000So with the TriCaster, we're going to allow Randall to take control of the situation here.
00:13:56.000If you're just listening to this, this might be one of those podcasts where if you're one of those people that listens to it on a commute, you might want to go back and check out the, well, Vimeo or YouTube or those are the ones that Ustream is going to give you HD now too,
00:14:22.000What we're looking at here, this goes back to the early 90s when, you know, glaciologists and paleoclimatologists, guys who study ancient climate, Extracted these ice cores from the summit of Greenland and the reason they went to the summit was because they were looking for the most undistorted ice core record that they could find.
00:14:40.000Previous ice core extractions had been near the perimeter of the ice sheets and there the ice flow is much more dynamic so there was more distortion in the record.
00:14:51.000So what they did was they went to the very center.
00:14:53.000There was a European team and an American team.
00:14:55.000And without getting into the background, basically the ice sheet there was almost two miles thick.
00:15:00.000It took them five years to drill through.
00:16:56.000Now, to put this into context, the concern, you know, we got into this somewhat last time, the whole issue of global warming, and I know that in some of the feedback we got, some of the most critical comments came from people who didn't like me undermining this whole concept of global warming induced catastrophe,
00:17:17.000What we see here though is clearly that the climate, this is the 10,000 years that we're talking about here is called the Holocene by geologists.
00:17:25.000It's oscillating back and forth 2 to 4 degrees centigrade every 10, 20, 30 years, right?
00:17:32.000So we're talking about a degree that has changed basically in the last century to a century and a half.
00:17:39.000right which which really almost wouldn't even show up here you see but we're going down as we go down we'll see if you go to the right that means temperatures warming you go to the left it means it's cooling right and so as we go back down this is through the Holocene we're going through here and if you look there's some interesting stuff going on right here at about eight thousand two hundred years ago there's a really there's a spike of cooling right there and that was very very significant cooling I mean that was probably It caused the glaciers
00:18:10.000worldwide to start growing again for a couple of centuries after they had basically disappeared at the end of the Ice Age.
00:18:17.000So this was a very significant event right here.
00:18:21.000And then as we get down right here at 10,000, you see it starts deviating to the left, it starts deviating to the cooler.
00:18:26.000I'm going to go to the next slide where we take this graph and we turn it on its side.
00:18:32.000And what I've done here is, you see, this is the present right here.
00:18:36.000And this is basically 10,000 years ago over here on the right side.
00:18:40.000And I've drawn a level, there's a level green line in here to kind of give you a comparison.
00:18:51.000And then as we're going along here, you'll notice something that the general amplitude of these oscillations starts increasing as we get closer to the present.
00:19:07.000So in the last 10,000 years, we went from a period of considerable warmth in the immediate post-glacial era, And then it began to cool off around 6,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, and as it began to cool off, the temperature oscillations began to increase in magnitude,
00:19:27.000Which actually contradicts the computer models that are saying the amplitude of the oscillations is going to increase as the climate gets warmer.
00:19:35.000What we actually see from the Greenland ice cores is the opposite of that, and it's right here in this graph.
00:19:41.000But what's really significant about this is when we go Back beyond 10,000 years ago.
00:20:21.000You can see right around 15,000 years ago, the climate is actually, if we took this thing out of here, you can see there's almost a trend upwards that gets interrupted right here.
00:20:38.000And in fact, what has happened is if you go back through the literature of climate change and you read the estimates of how long it took for the planet to shift modes from full glacial to the interglacial like we're in now, 50,
00:20:54.00075 years ago, it was a thousand or more years, thousands of years.
00:20:59.000When radiocarbon dating came along in the 50s, it began to compress.
00:21:03.000And what happened is that if you look in the 80s, they're talking about perhaps a century, several centuries.
00:21:10.000Now comes the Greenland ice cores and other ice cores and other proxies, deep sea cores and so forth, and the correlation of all of this evidence.
00:21:18.000And it goes from centuries to decades.
00:21:21.000Well, as the ability to perceive these changes with ever greater precision and ever greater resolution has evolved, it's gotten to now where the change, the climate change that took us from glacial to interglacial happened in less than five years.
00:21:38.000And that's what we're seeing right here in this graph.
00:22:07.000And if the temperature is, you know, 31 degrees, it's not going to melt.
00:22:12.000If you turn the temperature up to 70 degrees, right, we could turn the temperature up in a matter, and it could warm up the room in a matter of hours or minutes, but it's going to take a while for that ice sculpture to melt.
00:22:30.000But in that period, in this interim, what we're seeing right here, There was an extraordinary, right here, I think if I go to the next slide, I think, you know, let's go to the next one.
00:22:43.000Yeah, I'm gonna zoom in here so you can see this.
00:22:47.000There were two massive warming spikes.
00:22:50.000One right here, you can see that we're down here in full glacial mode right there.
00:22:54.000And then boom, right there, there's huge spike of warming.
00:22:58.000Now what does that represent when it comes to like temperatures?
00:23:01.000That could be on the order of, well, that would be about 10 to 12 degrees centigrade, which would be about 18 degrees Fahrenheit, average temperature.
00:23:47.000I think what people are saying when they're saying that the debate on climate change is over, though, is whether or not human beings have had an impact on it in current times.
00:24:58.000And we could do an hour-long discussion on that, and I don't really think we want to get into that today.
00:25:04.000But I really feel like I should write an analysis of the source of that 97% so-called consensus so that people can really see where it came from.
00:25:14.000In a nutshell, basically, it goes to three or four pieces of research, some surveys that went out that were slanted right from the beginning, such as, do you feel that humans have had an impact on climate?
00:25:37.000Is there any climate scientists anywhere on the spectrum that denies that the climate changes or that denies that humans have had an influence on the climate?
00:26:06.000They're absolutely not climate change deniers.
00:26:09.000And when you look at stuff like this, you know, a lot of these guys who had questioned the so-called anthropogenic climate change consensus are guys who've done this work.
00:27:18.000That was based upon Actual empirical observations of ice glaciers receding as a result of the modern warming.
00:27:29.000Because you have to understand, Up until about the middle of the 19th century, we were in the middle of what has commonly been referred to as the Little Ice Age.
00:27:38.000And this is another thing that's important to put into context.
00:27:56.000During that time, the glaciers worldwide began to grow.
00:27:59.000And most of the evidence today suggests that during the Little Ice Age, glaciers were bigger than they had been in 10,000 years.
00:28:07.000So around the middle of the 19th century, around 1850, give or take a decade or two, The climate began to warm out of the Little Ice Age, and glaciers began to recede, right?
00:28:19.000Now, if we look at glacier recession that's going on right now, and it's been going on for the last 10 or 20 years, what we see is it's basically a continuation of the recession that's been going on for 160 or 170 years.
00:28:34.000So it's important to establish what's our baseline.
00:28:38.000When we're comparing modern recession of glaciers, bear in mind that our baseline is we're starting from the glaciers being bigger than they had been in 10,000 years.
00:28:49.000So I think then we have to understand that that little ice age, in fact, had some pretty serious consequences for civilization.
00:28:59.000We can see that there were two periods, in the last 2,000 years, there were two periods of global cooling.
00:29:05.000One of them occurred in the 6th century.
00:29:07.000It actually now can be accurately dated to occurring between 536 and 544 AD. Which is a very interesting time.
00:29:17.000This was basically the time that historians have for decades said this was the onset of the Dark Ages.
00:29:24.000It's also the time during which all of the Arthurian myths and the Grailquest stories are placed.
00:29:31.000You know, Arthur's death is traditionally placed at the Battle of Kamlan, which is usually dated about 540 A.D., which basically culminated this quest for the Grail, right?
00:29:46.000Now, the Grail stories themselves were set down in writing between about 1180 and 1230 A.D., In this really interesting time during the Middle Ages, at the same time that the great cathedrals were being built,
00:30:02.000when the Cathar movement was at its strongest, when the Knights of the Temple were at their strongest, when Kabbalism schools were flourishing in Spain, when the troubadours were making their circuits around Europe, you know,
00:30:18.000spreading news and entertainment, but really probably carrying Esoteric information to the initiates that had the key to the secret language that they used.
00:30:59.000Not only restored the wasteland, it restored the king.
00:31:03.000Because remember, the king, whether it was King Arthur or Bronn or Anfortas or the Fisher King, there were different names and different stories.
00:31:19.000And the only way to restore him was to find the grail, bring the grail back, Allow them to drink from the grail, but the grail was also the means of restoring the wasteland to fertility and fecundity.
00:31:32.000Now, here's where it gets interesting, is that the dendrochronologists who study tree rings have been looking at that period, exactly in that period that the tradition places the grail quest, and have discovered that for about eight or ten years,
00:31:50.000forest growth in the northern hemisphere almost came to a screeching halt.
00:31:54.000And this has now been well documented.
00:31:55.000Mike Bailey has done most of this work.
00:31:59.000Basically showing that there was a serious global cooling that took place during those years.
00:32:06.000And the historical record of that seems to confirm, because there's multiple descriptions, you know, from Irish monks and so on, describing how for weeks at a time the sun is not visible, that, you know, that its darkness has come over the land, that there were reports of these mysterious fogs,
00:32:23.000and then there are multiple collapses of agriculture.
00:32:28.000Okay, so as a result of these multi-year collapses of agriculture, because of the cold and the dark and the damp, people got malnourished, and then you had famine.
00:32:39.000As a result of famine, people, their immune systems became weakened, and then in 542 AD, you had the onset of the Justinian Plague, which wiped out maybe a third of the population of Europe.
00:32:53.000Whole villages disappeared as a consequence.
00:32:56.000Now these events Pretty much followed in sequence.
00:33:00.000You see, the cold brought about the collapse of agriculture, the collapse of agriculture brought about famine, famine brought about weakness, and as a result, boom, you have plague.
00:33:12.000Now, it took European civilization nearly three centuries to recover from that.
00:33:17.000Now, what brought about the recovery was the return of warmth to the world, what is called the medieval warm period.
00:33:25.000And this began really to occur in about 900 A.D. The sea ice began to retract back well inside the Arctic Circle, which opened up the sea lanes between Northern Europe, Iceland, and Greenland.
00:33:39.000And so it was this period of time that the Vikings were able to sail to Iceland and then sail to Greenland and actually establish colonies on the west coast of Greenland and farm where now the ground is perennially frozen.
00:34:00.000And what happened was, if you look back now at the studies from that medieval warm period, you see that agriculture rebounded.
00:34:07.000So many people had lots of food to eat.
00:34:10.000Actually studies of skeletons show that the stature of humans during this period of time increased by four or five inches on average from what it had been during the Dark Ages.
00:34:21.000And now Europe started becoming wealthy again, because the basis of all wealth, basically, was agriculture, was food, right?
00:34:28.000Without that, you don't have anything else.
00:34:31.000Population began to expand enormously.
00:34:39.000All of this stuff has been well documented in a whole variety of studies.
00:34:43.000Well, after about a century and a half of this warmth with the concomitant wealth that came along, European society was wealthy enough to undertake this extraordinary cathedral building phase, you see,
00:34:58.000where you had literally hundreds of thousands of highly trained, highly skilled craftspeople working on these things.
00:35:06.000Essentially, when you begin to look at the cathedral building phenomena, It required basically the mobilization of the whole of European society behind this enterprise because you had to quarry huge amounts of stone.
00:35:23.000You look at the statuary, the stained glass, which is...
00:35:27.000Exceptional in its refractive properties that really have still not been mimicked to this day, the way the stained glass was able to refract light, so that it gives the appearance of not the light coming, shining through the glass, but emanating from within the glass.
00:35:46.000The carpentry skill, the engineering skill, the astronomy that went into these structures, all of this combined basically shows up Basically in a historical instant.
00:35:58.000And what's interesting is the scarcity of evidence showing What preceded this?
00:36:13.000There are references to this in history, but really, there's no explicit, detailed discussion where we can go and trace and say, okay, this is how it happened.
00:36:26.000It's important to realize that this was a consequence of the expansion of wealth in European society that was able to allow this to happen.
00:36:39.000And that's as a consequence of the warmth of the earth.
00:36:42.000And what we see is that the cathedral building era comes to a sudden termination in the early 1300s.
00:36:51.000And if you go and you travel around the cathedrals, you'll find that there's in many cases, you know, the record suggests that it's almost as if in the middle of their work, the workmen laid down their tools and left in some cases.
00:37:02.000This is why there were so many cathedrals of the great ones that weren't finished, okay?
00:37:08.000But what you see Is that exactly concurring with the cessation of cathedral building, within a few decades anyway, was the onset to the Little Ice Age and the return of the cold.
00:37:22.000And this first phase of the Little Ice Age, again, brought about agricultural collapses, it brought about famine, and then you had the Black Plague that showed up, I think, around, what was it, 1330, 1340, right in there.
00:37:35.000Again, decimated the civilization of Europe.
00:37:39.000So you can see, I mean, if we look at the historical record, what we see is the times of global warming have actually been times of advancement in civilization.
00:37:51.000Now, of course, that would have its limit.
00:37:54.000I mean, we could get to, you know, at some point where we would get too warm.
00:38:38.000Well, I think we're ignoring it because climate change has become a political agenda rather than a scientific question.
00:38:48.000Because there are political factions that are lined up behind it, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is now looked at as being the ultimate source for data on the climate.
00:39:03.000And bear in mind, they were created by the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and given the mandate of go out there and demonstrate that humans are causing climate change.
00:39:11.000So right from the very start, that was their mission.
00:39:13.000And they were not told, go and look for natural causes of natural climate variability.
00:39:21.000I mean, I'm not at all saying it's not important for us to study our own effects on climate.
00:39:27.000But it's going to be dangerous, I think, if we neglect, you know, what we're seeing right here on this graph that I'm showing you, because that's clearly not carbon dioxide.
00:39:37.000See, if we're told, and we have been repeatedly told, that carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere held relatively steady at about 280 parts per million, Prior to the Industrial Revolution, and only subsequent to the Industrial Revolution,
00:39:55.000Well, if we assume, just for the sake of argument, that that's correct, well look at this graph.
00:40:01.000What we're saying is that if carbon dioxide held steady at 280 parts per million, going back hundreds of thousands of years, as Al Gore has actually stated, and as many others have stated, It's not carbon dioxide driving those climate changes, is it?
00:40:27.000Now, the alternative is, okay, are we saying if carbon dioxide is the dominant driver of climate change, And that's what we're seeing here.
00:40:38.000Then what that basically says is that there's some gigantic unknown reservoirs of CO2 that have outgassed into the atmosphere, which again undermines the so-called consensus view, because so far the consensus view states that CO2 has only increased because of burning fossil fuel.
00:40:58.000So this graph is the real inconvenient truth.
00:42:41.000And the instantaneous nature of those is what you focus on when you start talking about asteroid impacts and things along those lines, that that is something That we can explain.
00:43:25.000Well, I'm not sure about the West Coast, but I know on the East Coast, there were, you know, swarms of icebergs stranding like off the coasts of South Carolina, for example.
00:43:35.000You know, there was no Great Lakes because the Great Lakes were under thousands of feet of ice.
00:43:41.000You know, New York, Boston, Detroit, Seattle, Portland, or not Portland, but Seattle, Twin Cities, Chicago, all of these areas were under thousands of feet of ice.
00:44:32.000That they're starting to correspond now with actual climate data and an understanding of what the sea levels actually were at that time.
00:44:37.000These are stories that are supposedly 10,000 years old, passed through oral traditions.
00:44:42.000These traditions, to me, are just beyond valuable.
00:44:47.000You know, up until very recently, They have been considered basically just, you know, interesting in the anthropological or psychological sense, but had no real hard scientific credibility to them.
00:45:03.000Now I think we're beginning to re-evaluate them.
00:45:06.000There's an archaeologist by the name of Bruce Massey who's been doing some very interesting work for the last 20 years analyzing many of these ancient myths and realizing and putting out there the argument that these myths and these legends and these epic tales encode really hard scientific information that we can extract from them.
00:45:32.000Talking about global changes and astronomical events and so forth.
00:45:36.000And I've been a believer in that for a long time.
00:45:41.000And this is one of the premises of Graham's work, is that the myths and the legends actually have a great deal to teach us beyond just the psychological orientation of our ignorant pre-scientific ancestors.
00:45:55.000But yeah, a good point you make there.
00:45:59.000When we look at this graph basically what we're seeing here is that coming out of the ice age you can kind of see that we're coming up here and then we have this first massive spike of warming and then it seesaws back down into this full glacial cold.
00:46:13.000This is called this period between these two green arrows is called the Younger Dryas.
00:46:19.000Which is named after a polar wildflower that had disappeared in northern Europe and then suddenly came back again.
00:46:25.000It only grows in polar environments, Dryas octopetala.
00:46:29.000So the younger Dryas compared, because there was an older Dryas too, but it lasted.
00:46:35.000Now the dates are placing it from roughly 12,900 years ago, give or take a few decades, to 11,600 years ago.
00:46:44.000This spike of warming right here is 11,600 years.
00:46:48.000If we look at the next one here, this graph basically goes to a different realm of evidence.
00:46:56.000What this shows is the rate of sea level rise.
00:47:04.000Now, oceanographers and marine geologists have been studying.
00:47:07.000There's a number of different ways they can correlate this information.
00:47:10.000They can look at actual evidence of submerged shorelines, right?
00:47:14.000They can look at changes in the flora and the fauna that have lived in the oceans.
00:47:22.000There's a lot of different things that they can pull together to see how rapidly sea levels rose at the end of the last ice age.
00:47:30.000And again, a generation or two ago, the assumption was that there was a smooth continuum of rise that took tens of thousands of years, right, to get us from minus 400 feet up to what we are now at the present level.
00:47:44.000What this graph shows is that there were two massive spikes of meltwater introduced into the oceans, into the global oceans at the end of the last ice age.
00:47:53.000And you can see the first spike called Meltwater Pulse 1A is the biggest, followed by another one, Meltwater Pulse 1B. If we go back to this graph right here, Those two spikes of glacial meltwater and sea level rise coincide with this warming spike and that warming spike.
00:48:13.000And you can see how this warming spike seems to be the most intense, followed by this one.
00:48:18.000And we see that meltwater pulse 1A is the biggest.
00:48:22.000So what this is showing is that the rise in sea level was not as smooth.
00:48:27.000It was like Whomp, and then whomp again.
00:48:30.000So there was something that caused all those glaciers to melt within just a very short amount of time, relatively speaking.
00:49:10.000And basically, what this graph is showing us here is that you probably can't read this here, so I'll interpret it for you.
00:49:17.000If you go back to here, the left side represents 50,000 years ago.
00:49:22.000And here where the cursor is, that's 40,000 years, 30,000, 20,000.
00:49:29.000And you see that as we're going along here, each one of these squares represents the finding of a fossil of an extinct mammal in the fossil record.
00:49:39.000What we see from this graph is that when we get to between 11 and 13,000 years ago, there's a massive spike of mortality.
00:49:57.000Now, what we're dealing with is that for 50 years the dominant theory is called Overkill or Blitzkrieg.
00:50:06.000And this theory basically states that bands of Paleo-Indian hunters came across the Bering Land Bridge, slaughtering every animal that they encountered along the way, and somehow within less than a thousand years swept from Siberia down to Tierra del Fuego and killed off every mammoth in the world,
00:50:28.000And presumably every other of the extinct mammals, and that has been the dominant theory, that humans caused this mass extinction.
00:50:36.000And personally, I think that's just absurd.
00:50:40.000You know, because for one thing, based upon anthropological studies, there were possibly more woolly mammoths in the world than there were people for a while.
00:50:49.000You know, you have to assume that the Blitzkrieg was so instantaneous and so all-encompassing that there was no time even for the mammoths to reproduce.
00:50:58.000Of course, the overkill hypothesis basically addresses itself only to mammoths.
00:51:05.000Woolly mammoths were one species of four different species of mammoths.
00:51:08.000But what about the other roughly 120 species?
00:51:11.000What about the giant armadillos and the giant beavers and the American Pleistocene lion that was as big as a horse?
00:51:18.000You know, the list goes on and on and on and on.
00:51:21.000And these animals all basically disappeared during this spike that you see right here.
00:51:25.000And that spike falls exactly between these two warming spikes and between the two sea level rises.
00:51:31.000So all the data all points to the same time period?
00:51:38.000And so what I'm saying, and this is basically consistent with what Graham's saying in his book, is that this, what we're seeing here, this episode basically represents a curtain that has come down and obscured 150,000 or more years of deep human history,
00:51:56.000and basically has lost that history to modern perception.
00:52:00.000But now, once we understand that, yeah, you know what, the uniformitarians were wrong to reject all ideas of catastrophism, you know, because in the original, in the early days of geology, the founding fathers of geology were catastrophists.
00:52:17.000They went out in the field unencumbered by dogmas and doctrines and so forth.
00:52:25.000They looked at the evidence in the field and concluded that there had been catastrophic episodes.
00:52:30.000And this is, you know, Barron von Cuvier, Sedgwick, Murchison, if you go back and all of these guys who basically are considered the godfathers of modern geology.
00:52:55.000Very powerful working idea is that we can look at stuff that's going on today, extrapolate backwards and try to figure out things that happened in the past when we don't have an eyewitness account, right?
00:53:10.000But what happened was it became so entrenched as dogma that anybody who invoked catastrophes was considered basically fringe.
00:53:20.000Because in the early days, some of these guys, like Sedgwick, for example, he was a theologian.
00:53:25.000He was a traveling minister who went around and in his travels to convert the people to Christianity, he would see the stuff.
00:53:35.000And he would, you know, Place it within the context perhaps of being Noah's Flood, right?
00:53:41.000And they would place it in a, some of them, not all of them, some of them would place it in a biblical context, right?
00:53:47.000So when they were attacked, basically the substance of the attack was, well, you guys are trying to bring us back to the days of biblical literalism, and science has moved beyond that.
00:54:00.000We're not here, we don't want to talk about catastrophes or great floods, deluges, we're through talking about all of that.
00:54:08.000And what you see is between the early 1800s, with the beginning of geology, earth science, to about the 19th century, what you see is a steady decline You know, some of the older guys die off, they're replaced by the new guys who have now basically taken control of the university curriculums,
00:54:25.000and they've been indoctrinated into this idea of a strict gradualism, and that any deviation from that strict gradualism is heresy, basically.
00:54:35.000So by the time we get to the 20th century, you had this reigning uniformity, reigning gradualist dogma that had been imposed upon all Earth science.
00:54:45.000And anybody who deviated from that was immediately kicked out of the club.
00:54:49.000And this is why when J. Harlan Bretz came along in the 1920s and proposed that there had been these gigantic floods in the Pacific Northwest, You know, the geological community basically said, ah, get out of here.
00:55:44.000He lived to be, I think, 98. So I think when he was 96, he was given the Penrose Medal, which is the highest honor of geology.
00:55:52.000He said he was very grateful, but the only thing he was unhappy about was the fact that all of his critics had died off, so he didn't get to gloat over them.
00:56:04.000But so what happened was you had the younger geologists come in who were more open to that.
00:56:09.000And what you see is between the 1950s and 1960s, you have a transition going on where they're beginning to accept that these great floods had happened.
00:56:19.000But what they did was they took a modern example, which is glacial outburst floods, which We've witnessed dozens and dozens, probably hundreds of such cases in Iceland, particularly Alaska,
00:56:34.000British Columbia, the Himalayas, where you have, particularly going back to the Little Ice Age, when the glaciers began to recede in the mid-19th century, you had a lot of what are called pro-glacial lakes formed.
00:56:46.000Or lakes, bodies of water held in by the melting ice.
00:56:51.000And then eventually the ice gave way and the water rushed out in the form of a flood.
00:57:15.000All of this water gushed out over Idaho and southeastern Washington, down the Columbia Gorge to the Pacific Ocean, and caused all of this amazing erosion and sedimentation that Harlan Bretz was documenting.
00:57:30.000Never mind that we have to extrapolate up three orders of magnitude from modern examples, right?
00:57:36.000Never mind that the modern examples are utterly minuscule compared to what Bretz was looking at.
00:57:42.000That has become the dogma to explain these floods.
00:57:45.000And it's still the entrenched dogma as we speak now.
00:57:52.000I want to show that these floods were something much grander than they have even imagined, and that the source of them was not actually a big glacial lake, but was what Bretz originally theorized was that there was something that caused a rapid melting of the ice.
00:58:11.000But then his critics said, well, there's nothing that could melt the ice as fast as you're requiring for your floods.
00:58:20.000And they were on an enormous, inconceivably vast scale.
00:58:25.000And this is what I was taking Graham out to see firsthand.
00:58:28.000Because I felt like for him to really have a handle on this This information and this insight into the catastrophes that basically would have terminated his mother civilization, as he called it, that he should see this stuff in the field for himself.
00:58:46.000Because, you know, as they say, a picture's worth a thousand words.
00:58:50.000Well, going out in the field and experiencing this directly is worth a thousand pictures.
00:58:55.000And so he's going to incorporate that into his book.
00:58:59.000And I would like to say about that book that based upon what I know and what he's shown me a bit of what's going into the book, I'll proclaim without any equivocation that I think it's probably going to be the most important book that's come out in the 21st century.
00:59:15.000Because it's opening a window onto this story like no other single source of information, credible information.
00:59:24.000This whole thing is so mind-blowing and as mind-blowing as your first appearance, this chart especially is really freaking me out.
00:59:32.000Like looking at the mortality of all the animals, the mass extinction event that must have taken place.
00:59:36.000One of the things that always bothered me about that idea that human beings killed off the woolly mammoths is that they found these vast fields of uneaten mammoths where there was thousands of them that had died almost instantaneously.
01:00:05.000This is one of the many mammoth cemeteries.
01:00:09.000And what happens is that you can see here that, you can see from the shoreline, see that there was a flood.
01:00:14.000The river rose up to this level, and then when it rose down, it left this in its wake.
01:00:21.000And what you see here, like this is bone counting at the Baralek Mammoth Cemetery in northern Yakutia, Siberia.
01:00:28.000Identical deposits are found throughout the Tamar Peninsula.
01:00:31.000And what we see here is these massive bone deposits that have been showing up for the last couple of hundred years.
01:00:38.000Every time that there's, you know, a thawing or a flood or these things are washed up on the shore of the Arctic Ocean, you know, what we see is that there were huge, huge herds of woolly mammoths grazing.
01:00:51.000We're now The plant material is only two inches high.
01:00:56.000So clearly, it was a completely different climate there.
01:01:00.000What's interesting is that you had in Siberia able to support herds of woolly mammoths at the same time that half of North America is buried under two miles or more of ice.
01:01:16.000I have some ideas, but until I can test these ideas a little further, I'm So without ice core samples, is it impossible to figure out what the temperature was in Siberia at that time?
01:02:53.000Trains and high-powered rifles, right?
01:02:57.000It was a technological, major technological advancement that was able to bring about the near extermination of the American bison.
01:03:04.000There's actually a guy that I'm going to bring on the podcast soon to discuss that.
01:03:08.000His name is Dan Flores, who is a big chunk of his intellectual career studying this.
01:03:15.000And what he believes is that the bison had a massive population jump that was directly correlating to smallpox epidemic on the Native American people and that when the United States when we look at the United States history and the big stacks of woolly mammoth or excuse me the big stacks of bison skulls we always look to like that was a very unusual population of bison that existed because the plains Indians
01:03:45.000had experienced this massive extinction event and then when they had incorporated the horse Like the horse and apparently the American Indians, Native Americans rather, were on their way to extirpating the bison even before we came along.
01:04:00.000But then they died off in this massive death scenario with the smallpox and all the different diseases that the Europeans had brought over here.
01:04:11.000And then the mammoth population, or excuse me, the bison population had grown Almost unnaturally.
01:04:18.000It had been much larger than it had ever been in the past.
01:04:20.000And that's when the United States was established, and that's when all the Western European immigrants had come along and started killing off all these bisons.
01:04:31.000It's really a very interesting subject.
01:04:56.000Well, because I haven't looked into it yet.
01:04:58.000But, you know, one of the things I have seen is that the assumption there is predicated upon that the Europeans arrived and brought the diseases that Native Americans had no defenses for.
01:05:08.000But the thing is, is that, you know, there's so much evidence now showing that, you know, there were lots of explorers and immigrants to the New World prior to the arrival of the Europeans.
01:05:22.000You know, with the Chinese, the Phoenicians, and I'm not necessarily saying that's credible, none of it's been proven, but there's some interesting data out there that suggests, and there are a number of books written that, again, I haven't accessed it, so I'm not going to pretend that I'm an authority on that,
01:05:39.000But if some of that turns out to be credible, it would suggest that there was a lot more interaction between the Native American population and other groups around the world.
01:05:48.000Which, if true, To me, kind of somewhat undermines this idea that they were completely susceptible to the introduction of these foreign diseases.
01:07:07.000Now, let's go back to that photo that you have on your desktop that you were going to explain to me, but we decided not to talk about it before the podcast because it's so incredible that you said all this incredible change that we're looking at,
01:07:37.000This is a satellite photograph taken from about 500 miles up.
01:07:43.000And what you see here, this is southeastern Washington, and what you're looking at here is part of what's called the Columbia Basalt Plateau.
01:07:52.000This is part of the terrain that we crossed when I was with Graham.
01:07:57.000What you see here is that you have an area of, if you look here you can see the Differentiate between the pixels and the actual squares that like you see this red area down here is area that's actually being farmed and it's in it because this is an infrared photograph and so what happens is is that the areas that are being cultivated will show up warmer than the surrounding areas.
01:08:22.000This is this whole plateau is covered in this stuff called Loess L O E S S and it's a type of very fertile soil That has a rather mysterious and controversial origin.
01:08:34.000We won't get into that right now, but in some places this lust layer is hundreds of feet thick over a dark basalt bedrock that is a result of these massive outflows of basaltic lava that came out, that extruded between about 6 million and 16 million years ago,
01:09:34.000And you can see that very clearly here, that the water came off of this river, which is the Columbia River up here, and flowed over the landscape and washed away the basalt and left these gigantic channels in its wake.
01:09:49.000And there's more over here to the east, there's more over here to the west.
01:09:55.000And if we look at, actually this, let me go to a different program here.
01:10:01.000I think it'll actually have some, that actually I think has the picture in it that you are seeing.
01:10:10.000Now, what we're looking at here is what's been called the Missoula Flood, right?
01:10:14.000Named after the town of Missoula, Montana.
01:10:17.000Missoula is in a basin that was part of this hypothesized giant lake that presumably caused this flood, right?
01:10:40.000While that's coming up, we'll look at this slide right here because this will kind of give you a picture of the Earth as it was during the height of the Ice Age.
01:11:09.000And, you know, the ice, part of it is, you know, in the Midwest now, the farming belt of America is basically, you know, growing out of the fertile soil that the ice scraped off of Canada and dumped in.
01:11:24.000You know, down in Minnesota and Iowa and Wisconsin and so on.
01:11:27.000So, you know, someday they may want that back.
01:11:31.000But we're not going to let them have it.
01:11:34.000It's fascinating when you look at that, that there was this big ice cap, but then the areas around it, no ice.
01:12:04.000Sporadic glaciers, but nothing like what we see in northwestern Europe over here.
01:12:08.000This was called the Phenoscandian Ice Sheet.
01:12:11.000And the ice sheet over North America actually consisted of two ice sheets.
01:12:15.000The Laurentide, which was centered over Hudson Bay, and the Cordilleran, which was centered over the Canadian Rockies.
01:12:22.000And in this particular slide, you can see...
01:12:27.000You can see here, this was the Cordilleran over here, over the Canadian Rockies, and this was the Laurentide was much bigger, see?
01:12:35.000And then there was an area between the two, right here.
01:12:39.000Which has been theorized as at one point having been a corridor called the Ice Free Corridor and migrants from Paleo-Indian migrants from Siberia would have come across Alaska and down through this corridor here to the lower United States and ultimately down here to South America.
01:13:00.000And it was these groups of bands of paleo-Indian hunters that according to the overkill or blitzkrieg hypothesis wiped out the mega-mammals as they passed by.
01:13:23.000Okay, so here this kind of will show The coastlines of the of the world during the during the ice age and Let me just Escape out of this so that we can Zoom in a little bit and look at it closer okay,
01:15:54.000Now here is Indonesia, and you know, where stories, which I don't know how credible they are, but you know there are stories like Lemuria and the Pacific and all of that.
01:16:04.000Again, I don't know how credible those are.
01:16:06.000I think the Atlantis story actually has a little more credibility.
01:16:08.000We talked about that last time somewhat.
01:16:10.000But here's the modern, and you can see the light blue is the coastal shelf area.
01:16:37.000At the mouths of rivers, on the coastlines.
01:16:39.000And during the Ice Age, where would have been the most obvious prime habitable real estate?
01:16:45.000You know, down close to sea level, right?
01:16:47.000So if there were cities built, you know, if there were thriving communities during the Ice Age, they're now 400 feet under the water.
01:16:55.000It's so amazing that all of these stories of floods, the epic of Gilgamesh, Noah's Ark, that all of these stories seem to really correlate with all this data.
01:17:48.000The list goes on and on of these culture heroes that somehow had foreknowledge of this impending disaster and were able to take steps to preserve themselves, their family, some diverse cross-section of species.
01:18:29.000On the other hand, we have stories and myths and legends repeatedly.
01:18:33.000It's probably the most ubiquitous of all the stories that we've inherited from the past, is the story of this gigantic, world-destroying flood that occurred, right?
01:18:44.000Now, on the one hand, we have the hard geological record, which shows there were giant floods.
01:18:49.000Then we have these epic tales and myths from all over the world about giant floods.
01:18:55.000Do we now dismiss those stories out of hand and say, oh, that's just superstitious, preliterate, you know, pseudoscientific nonsense?
01:19:05.000I think we'd be making a big mistake to do that.
01:19:08.000Now, If we accept that those flood stories, and maybe they have been altered through the time and through the telling, represent something real, what about the other elements of the story?
01:19:22.000The fact that in so many cases there was somebody that had foreknowledge.
01:19:28.000Do we dismiss that out of hand as well?
01:19:30.000You know, or where does that come from?
01:19:32.000That there was one group of people, small group of people, that saw this thing coming and prepared for it, And others who basically paid no attention.
01:20:01.000See, that's what I was saying earlier when we started talking.
01:20:03.000I mean, the world of 15,000 years ago was so dramatically different than our modern world that, you know, it's almost difficult to conceive until you start looking at things like this.
01:20:37.000You know, it says in Genesis 7.19,"...the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth and all the high hills were covered." I want you to take a look, because you can see many mountains in western United States, if you know what you're looking at, that have this on them.
01:20:53.000You know what those are, those horizontal lines?
01:21:55.000Now, here's what you've got a picture, Joe.
01:21:59.000Picture you've got this nice gentle valley with a nice river, very pastoral scene, you know, trees and stuff, probably, you know, mammoths and herds of these animals grazing along the side of this peaceful river with gentle valley slopes.
01:22:15.000Here comes this massive flood, and we're talking about perhaps a flood wave 800 to 1000 feet high.
01:22:23.000As it comes through, it's ripping up everything in its path.
01:22:27.000And what it does is it now changes the profile of this valley from this gentle profile to down cutting 800, 1,000, 1,200 feet or more into the bedrock, right?
01:22:40.000So now, prior to the passage of this giant flood, you had streams and nice little rivers flowing into the main river, which in this case was the Columbia.
01:22:49.000What happens is after the passage of this flood wave, it's sheared off the sides of the channel.
01:22:55.000So now, rather than a gentle slope, you've got sheer cliffs four, five, six hundred feet high.
01:23:00.000These pre-flood streams and rivers come up and they're now waterfalls.
01:23:04.000And that's what we're looking at right here in this picture, if that makes sense to you.
01:23:09.000And you notice how you've got this undercutting here.
01:23:13.000That undercutting only occurs when you have enormous intense turbulence in the water doing this.
01:23:21.000You see, the water doing this will undercut.
01:23:26.000See, this modern waterfall here had nothing to do with the creation of this cliff.
01:23:33.000This cliff Was cut, again, probably in a matter of days to weeks by the passage of these giant floods.
01:23:40.000And there's dozens of these waterfalls that are left.
01:23:46.000They can be produced by glaciers, but they can also be produced by enormous, intense flood waves.
01:23:54.000This is your typical, no, wait a minute, not typical.
01:23:57.000This is called, this is a bar, a gravel bar, but in this case it's a boulder bar.
01:24:04.000Now if you've ever done any walking along a river or a creek or along the beach and you've seen ripples in the sand and they're typically, you know, if you've got water that's a foot or two feet deep you'll have ripples that are maybe an inch or two high.
01:24:20.000What we're looking at here is a flood bar that's three miles long.
01:24:25.000It's up to 250 feet above the Modern River and the ripples that you can see here are up to 50 feet in height and 350 feet in wavelength.
01:24:41.000This was produced, again, by gigantic flood flows.
01:24:46.000And if we look right over here, that's a three-story building you see right there for scale.
01:25:27.000I don't claim to have the final, final word on this, but you know, here's the thing.
01:25:31.000I've interacted with a lot of geologists that are studying this, professional geologists that are studying this.
01:25:38.000What I can tell you is that in most cases, the geologists that are studying this, it's basically something they're doing in their spare time.
01:25:46.000I think that the geological community is moving much closer to a scenario like I'm describing.
01:26:05.000And right now there's actually a controversy because you know some of the the older guard is wanting to defend this idea of the Yolkalaus, this giant lake draining out.
01:26:16.000There are a group of Canadian geologists though who are challenging that under a leadership of a man who may now be retired named John Shaw who goes back to the 1980s and began A reinterpretation of a very ubiquitous glacial feature called drumlins.
01:26:36.000I can show you some pictures of them here after a bit.
01:26:44.000They're always associated with the locations of the glaciers and the ice sheets.
01:26:50.000So it was therefore assumed that they were somehow created by the glaciers themselves.
01:26:54.000But glaciers tend to grind things that they're moving over and level things off and scratch them and leave striations and all of this, abrasion.
01:27:06.000These drumlins are smooth, streamlined features.
01:27:09.000What Shaw first proposed back in the late 80s was that they had actually been produced by water, flowing massive amounts of water, flowing under the glaciers.
01:28:23.000Yeah, and I think I've got a pretty good idea, but it's going to take some field research, and next summer I'm planning to do some more field research.
01:28:58.000Hypothetically, it hasn't been proven yet because, again, some of these more recent craters of the last 10,000 years, some of these that have been hypothesized are actually on the bottom of the ocean.
01:29:09.000The Burkle crater that I think we talked about on the bottom of the Indian Ocean, it's under two miles of seawater.
01:29:15.000So until we can actually get back there and do more in-depth sampling and examination, it'll be impossible to prove it.
01:29:23.000I think that the evidence is strongly supportive of that possibility that maybe 5,000 years ago there was a significant impact into the Indian Ocean that could have caused enormous tsunami waves.
01:29:35.000Now, I actually posted one of the, somebody called into question some of the things I had said in the last interview about tsunamis.
01:29:46.000And that the things I was saying weren't really tsunamis.
01:29:50.000So I actually wrote an elaborate response to that, which is posted on the Sacred Geometry website, where I've gone into great detail, showing that the evidence really, in the end, I think does support the idea that there had been enormous tsunamis,
01:30:07.000possibly hundreds of feet high, sweeping over the coastlines of the Indian Ocean, probably around 5,000 years ago.
01:30:14.000That could have been the origin of some of the flood myths.
01:30:18.000And your timeline, where this mass extinction event occurred, where the massive warming occurred, all that also coincides with the discovery of this nuclear glass all over Asia and Europe, which is somewhere in the,
01:30:36.000when they do the core samples, of around the same area, right?
01:30:47.000You can see this is very typical, the mysterious onset of the Younger Dryas.
01:30:54.000Now, this has been kind of the consensus view, is that, OK, we don't have an explanation.
01:30:59.000The Younger Dryas, remember, is that's that interval between those two spikes, right, where you had the warming, then the snap back to glacial cold, and then the warming again.
01:31:09.000So that interval in between is the Younger Dryas.
01:31:12.000So here they're saying the mysterious onset of the Younger Dryas, the 1300 year long Younger Dryas cold reversal.
01:31:18.000And you notice the dates, 12,900 to 11,600.
01:31:22.000That means calendar years before present.
01:31:25.000So what they've done is they've calibrated this from radiocarbon dating, which is not necessarily going to be the same as the actual calendar years.
01:31:46.000I mean, he says that Atlantis subsided.
01:31:49.000Anybody can read this if they want to pick up Timaeus and Critias, the two dialogues that he describes Atlantis in.
01:31:56.000He gives that date, 9,000 years before this exile of Solon in Egypt, which took place in 600 BC, roughly.
01:32:05.000So, 600 BC, Roughly as 2,600 years ago.
01:32:09.000Add that to the 9,000 years and there's your 11,600.
01:32:13.000So now what has happened is 2,500 years ago, Plato gave a date, which would seem to suggest that something immense happened in the Atlantic Ocean and you had an island complex that sank.
01:32:28.000Now, 2,500 years later, here's modern science coming up with the exact date showing, hey, there was a massive meltwater pulse into the ocean at that date.
01:32:38.000Now, at this point, nobody within mainstream science is going, oh, well, see, he doesn't mention here, oh, that's the date given by Plato.
01:32:45.000They don't say that, but it is the case.
01:32:57.000Solon handed it down, let's see if I can remember this, through Drapidus, Drapidus to Critias the Elder, Critias the Elder to Critias the Younger, then Critias the Younger, I guess to Socrates.
01:33:09.000Actually at the forum where Plato would have heard it would have been the Socratic forum where it was told.
01:33:14.000So I think there was like three generations between Solon and Plato.
01:33:19.000The wise men of the time, or the people that were in charge of disseminating knowledge back then, it was such a critical job.
01:33:28.000And the whole thing was that the whole emphasis was on the oral transmission had to take place without not one iota of change.
01:33:39.000It had to be transmitted from mouth to ear, Unbroken, without change, without alteration.
01:33:46.000Which has always been the issue with human beings, hence that telephone game.
01:33:50.000You know, you tell someone something, they tell you something.
01:33:54.000But if you start out, and you know, it's going to be the same with Native Americans.
01:33:58.000And the Native American storytellers have to go through a very long, arduous term of initiation to show that when they tell the story, it's going to be exactly like they heard it.
01:34:09.000That's one of the basis of modern Freemasonry too.
01:34:12.000We need to get that with today's modern gossip.
01:34:47.000Since 2007. This is probably around 2011. There was something that was released very recently about micro-diamonds and micro-diamonds corresponding.
01:37:14.000And some of the guys that are out there doing it are not doing it with academic rigor.
01:37:20.000You know, they're bringing in all kinds of weird stuff, which makes it easy for the critics to attack them and dismiss them as being fringe science.
01:37:27.000They're throwing some woo into the mix.
01:37:29.000They're throwing some woo into the mix, yeah.
01:37:31.000In fact, one of the rational wiki entry on me says something about Randall Carlson and his woo.
01:37:44.000You know, so I took that as sort of a compliment.
01:37:47.000Well, people love to be able to dismiss anything that's not mainstream, right?
01:37:51.000Yeah, because there's this cult of authority.
01:37:54.000You know, that's why you hear somebody says, well, what does a real scientist say about this?
01:37:58.000What does a real scientist say about this flood?
01:38:00.000And I'm like, well, which real scientist?
01:38:03.000You know, Vic Baker, Richard Waite, you know, Roy Breckenridge, you know, I've read or talked to almost every scientist that's done work on the Missoula Flood.
01:38:14.000You know, so I know what they're saying and what they're thinking, you know, and what they've written.
01:38:19.000So, you know, when you say, well, what do the real scientists say?
01:38:22.000Well, okay, let's get a little more specific.
01:39:06.000You know, I've got in my archives here, I've got, you know, not only the research that supports the idea of a cosmic impact back during the Younger Dryas, but the criticisms of it as well.
01:39:18.000You know, and I go, okay, how can we explain those criticisms?
01:39:21.000And in the give and take of science, that's part of the process.
01:40:01.000I mean, all the various things, the micro diamonds, the nuclear glass, the mass extinction events, the evidence of the warming, the flooding.
01:40:49.000But when these guys, Richard Firestone and James West and James Kennett, these other scientists that are working on this Younger Dryas impact hypothesis, said to their colleagues, check out the Younger Dryas boundary layer 12,900 years ago and see if there's anything that shows up there.
01:41:05.000They did and what do you suppose they found?
01:41:10.000So there it is showing up in the ice sheets.
01:41:13.000Here's new evidence from a black math site in the Northern Andes supporting a cosmic impact 12,800 years ago.
01:41:22.000Very high temperature impact melt products as evidence for cosmic air bursts impacts 12,900.
01:41:29.000So they're getting closer and closer to refining the date, but it's coming in 12,800 to 12,900 years ago.
01:41:40.000Wildlife, wildfire, and abrupt ecosystem disruption on California's Northern Channel Islands at the Alorod-Younger Dryas boundary at basically 12,900.
01:42:37.000And what's gratifying to me As I theorized this 25 years ago.
01:42:43.000And to see now the hard evidence coming in, supporting a scenario I had pieced together from all of these different realms of knowledge, is very gratifying to me.
01:43:29.000In the beautiful summer day, early summer, 12,900 years ago, 1969. It's on a field next to a little airport just out southwest of the Twin Cities,
01:43:46.000Minnesota, which is near where I grew up.
01:43:49.000The Minnesota River flows through there.
01:43:52.000Minnesota River flows into the Mississippi.
01:43:57.000I think I'll have some slides coming up here I can maybe even show you.
01:44:01.000So what we have here is that in the middle of this thing, between bands or whatever, I wandered off from the main area where the crowd was gathered to listen to the music and I walked over to these 200 foot high bluffs.
01:44:17.000Overlooking the valley of the Minnesota River.
01:44:21.000Now, the Minnesota River currently flows in a little channel at the bottom of this valley.
01:44:27.000And I'm standing up on this hill and I'm looking down at this Minnesota River, you know, hundreds of feet below me in this channel.
01:44:37.000And three miles, four miles across, I see another set of bluffs matching the ones that I'm standing on.
01:44:45.000And I had this, all I can say is it was kind of a revelation that I'm looking down here at this little river flowing in a channel, and then I'm seeing just a gigantic version of that same channel, but it's three and four miles wide.
01:45:00.000And I just looked at that, and it was almost as if For a short period of time, I got transplanted out of time or something.
01:45:33.000There was not a whole lot on catastrophism available in the 70s.
01:45:37.000There was, you know, Emmanuel Velikovsky, one of the forerunners.
01:45:41.000But, you know, he came up with some really wild ideas that made it very easy for mainstream science to dismiss him.
01:45:49.000But he came up with some really solid ideas, too.
01:45:51.000His book, Earth and Upheaval, basically was just a documentation of all of this geological evidence for great catastrophes in the history of the Earth.
01:45:59.000I think he misinterpreted the cause of those catastrophes, but nonetheless, When you look at the criticism, you've heard of Immanuel Velikovsky, right?
01:46:26.000Although Velikovsky's work I don't think was anywhere near as credible as Graham's.
01:46:30.000Graham is very assiduous in his referencing and his detailing.
01:46:37.000Velikovsky went way off into this really weird astrophysics to explain His theories of geological catastrophe, which again, allowed the critics to basically dismiss everything he had done.
01:46:48.000But his book, Earth and Upheaval, I think has upheld the test of time.
01:46:52.000Basically, in the 1950s, he was accumulating all of this evidence suggesting that there had been catastrophes in Earth history.
01:47:00.000And it was, like I said, a bestseller, but the mainstream scientific community was very dismissive of it.
01:47:07.000Okay, and then after that you had a book by Charles Hapgood called The Path of the Pole.
01:47:15.000I think it came out in 76. And he and Neer theorized that there had been a sudden pole shift that had brought about, you know, the quick freezing of the mammoths and the end of the Ice Age and so forth.
01:47:27.000So, you know, I was familiar with that stuff, and I would read that stuff just out of curiosity, you know, because that was some of the stuff that was out there.
01:47:35.000And, you know, somebody would say, hey, did you read Velikovsky?
01:47:39.000And so as I was reading this stuff, I would keep thinking back to this image I'd had of this.
01:47:45.000And then, in the early 80s, I was talking to somebody, I actually gave one of my very early lectures on this stuff, and there was somebody who had a degree in geology who stood up and he said, no, no, no, no, that valley that you're talking about was created over millions of years.
01:48:11.000I went and I found every single thing that had been written on it and discovered that there's actually mainstream geologists that have said, yeah, That river channel, that giant river channel, was actually created by a huge meltwater flood.
01:48:24.000And they estimated that its volume, they called it River Warren.
01:48:28.000And they estimated that its volume might have been 4,000 times greater than the modern Minnesota River that's flowing in there.
01:49:12.000The first time I'd traveled down to Columbia Gorge, and as I did, I had this overwhelming sense that there was something in the landscape that was That was waiting to be revealed.
01:49:26.000You know, I would look at these features in the Columbia Gorge when I showed you that huge, that waterfall with the basalt over, that's in the Columbia Gorge.
01:49:33.000So that was the area I had traveled through in 1970. And I came away with that with this sense that, boy, there's something that that landscape is trying to tell me.
01:49:45.000And I just, you know, I got very interested in this stuff because I'm interested in science and I love the outdoors.
01:49:52.000So, you know, I love a good mystery, you know, and I love, you know, ancient traditions.
01:49:57.000So all this sort of came together over a period of, you know, a couple of decades.
01:50:03.000So I began really, I would say, obsessively really going into this in the early 80s, you know, where it went from just more or less casual reading into, you know, spending hours in university libraries, digging up these things,
01:50:20.000going back to the early geologists to see what were they saying, why did they believe That the history of the Earth had been catastrophic.
01:50:49.000With our minds living in this very small window of life, you know, if we're lucky we get a hundred years and then of course, you know, we have the history which goes back to about seven plus thousand years.
01:51:00.000It's just not enough to really represent what we're looking at when we look at the moon.
01:51:06.000When we look at the moon that's covered with craters, we're looking at potentially billions of years of impacts.
01:51:13.000Yes, and the assumption that those impacts Ceased hundreds of millions or billions of years ago is clearly not correct.
01:51:22.000Well, there's no evidence that it ceased or why it would cease.
01:51:48.000We've got geologists who are looking at the crust of the Earth and discovering that, yeah, if we strip away the biosphere and the oceans and account for plate tectonics, the Earth is going to look like the moon.
01:52:01.000There are now hundreds of identified craters.
01:52:04.000At the same time, astronomers are looking out into the near-Earth neighborhood of space and discovering, wait a second, we assumed that we were pretty much isolated, that there was nothing else going on.
01:52:17.000We're now realizing that near-Earth space is densely populated.
01:52:21.000The inner solar system is densely populated with cosmic debris.
01:52:26.000And this stuff is whizzing by us all the time.
01:52:29.000And now, at the same time, you've got paleontologists who are looking at the record of life and realizing that the record of life is not a smooth curve.
01:53:02.000Okay, human species on planet Earth, it's time for you to grow up and start paying attention to the bigger picture.
01:53:09.000Because whether you like it or not, you're a part of the bigger picture.
01:53:12.000And if we finally accept the fact that maybe our predecessors have undergone, in a sense, cultural mass extinctions, You know, it suddenly implies that we can't take our own unending future for granted.
01:53:27.000That we have to incorporate this bigger picture into our thinking.
01:53:32.000And you know, the evidence continues to Yes, like here.
01:53:39.000This was just from 2011. Multiple lines of evidence for possible human population decline, settlement, reorganization during the early Younger Dryas.
01:53:50.000In the three years, four years since this was published, more evidence has emerged that yes, the events that caused the mass extinction of half the great mega mammals on Earth Did not leave the rest of the mammals, the rest of the animals unscathed,
01:54:07.000And there's now emerging evidence, hard scientific evidence, that the human population crashed during the Younger Dryas.
01:54:14.000So this would completely coincide with Graham Hancock's ideas about the Sphinx.
01:54:22.000The Sphinx showing very clear, according to Robert Schock, Boston University geologist, John Anthony West, that there is clear evidence of water erosion in the Sphinx, which would indicate thousands of years of rainfall,
01:54:38.000where there hasn't been rainfall in the Nile Valley since I believe it was 9000 BC. So that's 11,000 years ago.
01:55:15.000In the book of Matthew, there's an interesting quote, and I'm not thumping the Bible here, but the Bible is full of, just like all the traditions of ages are gone, the Bible is full of some very powerful, interesting stuff.
01:55:28.000There's a part in here where one of the disciples asked Jesus about, when are we going to know about the end of days?
01:55:35.000And he says, well, as it was in the days of Noah...
01:55:38.000When the people were eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage, so will it be again in the days, the end of days, when the flood comes, and the people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the flood came and swept them away,
01:55:55.000so will it be again at the end of days.
01:55:58.000So what that seems to indicate to me is that we just get comfortable and relaxed and do well.
01:56:05.000And when we do well, that's when we get hit by a big rock.
01:56:07.000It's not saying that the everyday stuff, the stuff of everyday life, there's anything wrong.
01:56:13.000It's just saying if we get so preoccupied with the minutia and the trivia of everyday life to the exclusion of the bigger picture, that's when we open ourselves up.
01:56:24.000I've had these weird conversations with people about asteroidal impacts over the years because before I even met you, I've been obsessed with this stuff.
01:56:32.000Not nearly as much as when I met you in Atlanta and we started talking, then I got really into it.
01:56:37.000But what they would talk about The asteroids that killed the dinosaurs.
01:57:02.000But see, what happened on February 15th of 2014, when that little meteor came in and exploded over Chelyabinsk, Siberia, injured 1,500 people.
01:57:13.000Now, you know, it damaged thousands of buildings.
01:57:22.000If it had been a little bigger, a little denser, if its angle of approach had been a little steeper, if its velocity had been a little bit greater, we might have been looking at thousands of deaths rather than just injuries.
01:57:35.000And Tunguska, as you said, only a 150-foot-wide object.
01:57:59.000If I was to throw it at you even as hard as I could, it might sting a little bit, but it wouldn't do any damage.
01:58:04.000But if it came out of a gun with a muzzle velocity of 1,000 feet per second, think about that little thing and what the damage it would do to you.
01:58:32.000So if there's a moral to all of this, it's simply this.
01:58:36.000Look, we are the one species that could prevent the type of mass extinctions that have dominated the biosphere of this planet for a couple of hundred million years.
01:58:46.000Or we could keep putting our resources to fracking.
01:58:50.000Well, I still haven't made up my mind about fracking yet.
01:58:54.000But, you know, I do believe that what we need to do is be thinking of if we're going to extract the resources of this planet, Let's do so in such a way that what we're doing is implementing the transcendence of human culture into the cosmos itself.
01:59:11.000Because I ultimately believe that is the destiny of terrestrial life, is that terrestrial life wants to become cosmic.
01:59:18.000It knows on some level that as long as life is confined to the surface of a planet, it's vulnerable.
01:59:26.000And, you know, without getting into all of this, there's growing evidence, you know, that life originally came to this planet from space, right?
01:59:34.000Was seeded here probably through comets that carry organic material.
01:59:44.000You know, if you're an environmentalist and rightfully critical of some of the things that humans are doing to disrupt the environment, you've got to though place in context the fact that nature itself has done things to the environment that so far exceed anything we have done yet.
02:00:02.000What I showed you with that slide showing the ice sheets over Canada, think about this.
02:00:07.000Suppose some logging company got a contract from the government, U.S. and Canadian governments, to clear cut every forest from like the 47th parallel up to the Arctic Circle from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
02:01:24.000It's not to justify that we can ransack nature willy-nilly, but it's to say we have to have a realistic context for thinking about this.
02:01:34.000And bear in mind, the environmental movement was born during an era of total gradualistic dominance in the 50s and 60s.
02:01:43.000If you go back then, Again, only the fringe, you know, the fringe science people like Velikovsky and others were talking about catastrophes.
02:01:54.000The assumption was that all global change occurred one grain of sand or one drop of water at a time, right?
02:02:01.000Well, we've come 180 degrees from that model of Earth history.
02:02:06.000But our thinking has not really evolved to incorporate such a dynamic planet You know, at this point.
02:02:14.000Now see, so when the environmental movement was born, it was easy to think that if all change had happened at this imperceptibly slow rate, that yeah, obviously, then humans have accelerated that pace of change, and humans are now contributing to, you know, more global change than we've seen in millions of years.
02:02:32.000If that uniformitarian or gradualistic model was correct, but it's not.
02:02:39.000And I'm afraid that there's a large faction of the environmental movement that's still locked into that thinking of a gradual evolution of the planet, one grain of water, one drop of water, one grain of sand at a time, and that it has not suffered any kind of disruption until we bad humans came along and started,
02:03:00.000you know, With our factories and our oil wells and our SUVs and everything else.
02:03:07.000But, you know, clearly, we have to come to terms with the fact that we live on one hell of a dynamic planet.
02:03:12.000And one hell of a dynamic solar system.
02:03:37.000See, Jupiter can act as the bouncer that kicks a lot of those guys back out, you know, back out into the Kuiper disk or wherever they came from.
02:03:47.000But it can also hurdle stuff in towards us.
02:03:53.000Sacred Geometry is a subject that I wanted to talk to you about because we could go on about cataclysmic impacts forever, but it's one of the things that you mentioned at the end of our last podcast that you wanted to talk about on this one.
02:04:15.000I could find some stuff here to show you about that.
02:04:17.000And it dovetails because, remember, we're talking here a lot about geology, geometry, right?
02:04:24.000They both are sciences that have evolved out of the study of the Earth.
02:04:29.000And, you know, one of the things that I've done is, you know, in geology, we have this thing called scale and variance, which is that if you look at a geological picture, you're always going to see somebody.
02:04:40.000You're going to see like a rock pic set in the picture.
02:04:43.000You're going to see a person standing there because oftentimes you don't have a sense of the scale of what you're looking at, right?
02:04:51.000And in geometry, we have the same phenomena.
02:04:54.000It's also kind of the modern term for it is fractalization, where the part looks, the smaller part looks like the bigger hole.
02:05:01.000And that's one of the basic working ideas of sacred geometry.
02:05:05.000And it's the same idea of what I was describing standing there looking into the Minnesota River Valley.
02:05:11.000This was an example of scale invariance.
02:05:15.000The big channel was just a much, much larger version of this small channel.
02:05:20.000If you didn't have a scale of reference, you couldn't tell really what you're looking at, how big or how small it is.
02:05:28.000So, in the study of sacred geometry, one of the fundamental ideas is this idea of scale and variance.
02:05:34.000So, when I first was interested in geometry, because geometry, I think, is one of the keys to deciphering many of the ancient traditions.
02:05:42.000Like, you know, I became a, somebody wanted me to talk about Freemasonry, and I, you know, can talk about that up to a certain extent, you know.
02:05:51.000One of the things that I learned, actually I think I learned it before I was actually initiated into the Masonic fraternity in 1978, was that at the core of all the Masonic symbolism was geometry.
02:06:03.000If you wanted to understand the message of the great cathedrals, you had to have geometry.
02:06:08.000If you wanted to understand this amazing plethora of symbolism of which Masons are the custodians, you had to study geometry.
02:06:20.000And secondarily, you had to study astronomy.
02:06:22.000So that sort of confirmed some of the ideas I had already been thinking at the time that I went in, in the late 70s.
02:06:47.000So I was always interested in the built environment.
02:06:50.000And somewhere along the line, I just began to realize that there was a whole lot more to the built environment of ancient times that In modern times, you look at architecture and that architecture is not necessarily symbolical, except on a very abstract sense.
02:07:06.000I became aware of the fact that the ancient architecture, the ancient structures, whether it's the pyramids of Giza or Stonehenge or Angkor Wat or the Mayan temples, they're all profoundly symbolic.
02:07:19.000They're not just built because, hey, it looks good.
02:08:07.000I can send you some places that, I don't know about your kids, but I could easily have been eight years old and been totally blown away by it.
02:08:47.000But when you say, like, I'm a Mason, people would automatically, you know, especially ignorant people, would automatically assume that you're a part of some sort of society that's victimizing the general population and you're involved with the people that put the eyeball on top of the pyramid that's on the dollar bill.
02:09:51.000During the Middle Ages, when the Church was persecuting anybody who was branded a heretic, which could have meant anything that they wanted to be, Freemasonry had to go underground.
02:10:02.000And that's the primary reason for the secrecy, is because it was a survival strategy.
02:10:09.000And it only re-emerged in the early 1700s with the consolidation of four lodges in Britain to become the modern institution Freemason.
02:10:19.000And, you know, to anybody who comes up with that, I would just challenge them, show me the hard evidence.
02:10:23.000Show me that, you know, I like to say that, well, yeah, I'll admit, you know, 14 of the American presidents have been Freemasons, but 22 of them were Episcopalians.
02:10:31.000So clearly that implies to me that it's the Episcopalians who are the puppet masters ruling the world, right?
02:10:41.000Like, what's the benefits of being a Freemason?
02:10:43.000Well, for one thing, what you're doing is you're aligning yourself with probably the oldest institution that still exists on the planet, that goes back.
02:10:52.000Now we can historically trace it back to the Middle Ages.
02:10:55.000But if you go back further than that, while the historical continuity We can go back and we can talk about the Comachines in Italy.
02:12:05.000They're one of the largest charitable organizations on the planet in terms of the money that they raise.
02:12:10.000You know, again, Jesus said, by their works, ye shall know them, you know.
02:12:17.000You know, you can twist that around, perversely twist that around and say that's some kind of nefarious strategy to, you know, whatever, get control.
02:12:24.000The other side of the equation is that they're also custodians of this body of ancient symbolism, where all of these things that we have been talking about basically are encoded.
02:12:37.000And I could pull up some interesting stuff here that you, you know, that you could look at to see What we're actually talking about there.
02:12:46.000But yeah, they have this amazing body of symbolism.
02:13:27.000It's a Masonic symbol for rebirth, regeneration, rejuvenation.
02:13:31.000So the idea here is that in that ark is preserved all of the seeds, the biological diversity of the world that is now being erased from the planet by the waters of the flood.
02:13:42.000The acacia, is it related to the acacia tree or the acacia bush?
02:13:47.000You know, that's the same bush that they believe is responsible for Moses having the visions of God.
02:13:55.000Giving him the Ten Commandments because the acacia bush is rich in dimethyltryptamine.
02:14:01.000The flaming bush being symbolic of somehow or another extracting the DMT from that, smoking it, or lighting it on fire.
02:14:11.000And that being the transmission method for the dimethyltryptamine, which of course is one of the most profound psychedelic experiences and gives people this feeling of being in contact with the divine.
02:14:23.000Now, do you think it's any coincidence that the Freemasons have venerated the acacia for hundreds of years?
02:14:42.000Which is another thing that's slowly being exonerated today.
02:14:46.000Those ideas are being vindicated today in a way that before, you know, you would say just a few decades ago that somehow or another Moses was on drugs.
02:15:12.000There's no question that in the Ellisonian mysteries they were imbibing some type of a consciousness altering substance.
02:15:18.000I think that there's no question during the Mithraic mysteries also they were.
02:15:23.000They don't know what that was though, right?
02:15:24.000Not exactly, unless you, you know, I think, who was it, maybe Albert Hoffman and a couple others, they wrote a book in the 70s on the Ellicinian mysteries where they were talking about that, and I read it so long ago I've kind of forgotten What their final conclusion was,
02:15:41.000but it was definitely that they were doing some type of a psychedelic potion.
02:15:45.000Well, even Soma, when you go back to the ancient Hindus, the Soma being some sort of a mystery concoction.
02:15:52.000They don't know what it was, but it most likely had some sort of psychedelic properties to it.
02:16:00.000Which is amazing when you consider the fact that this stuff was so profound and so important to them, and now we don't even know what was in it.
02:16:08.000Most likely some concoction probably included psychedelic mushrooms.
02:16:13.000Yeah, well I'm convinced that one of the great boons to humankind is psychedelics and it was a profound mistake to criminalize it when we should have venerated it as ancient cultures did and provided a context in which people could do it With wisdom,
02:16:31.000you know, and propriety rather than driving it underground, you know, turning it into a criminal enterprise.
02:16:36.000That has been, I think, enormously, had enormous destructive consequences for our society by criminalizing this for the last half century.
02:16:44.000Yeah, well most certainly, and you can see the difference in the art of the 1960s, especially when it comes to music, the difference between the 60s and the 70s.
02:16:52.000The shallow nature of a lot of the music that came out of the 70s and the disco and all that stuff.
02:16:57.000And then look at what was going on in the 60s with Hendrix and Jim Morrison, most likely psychedelic-related.
02:17:06.000Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, the profound change in the music of The Beatles once they discovered LSD. Oh, it inspired an enormous burst of creativity.
02:17:16.000What's really interesting that what we're seeing now is huge benefits in psychedelic therapy for people with post-traumatic stress disorders.
02:17:24.000And it's out of war that we're finding these therapies for people that went to war.
02:17:31.000And these therapies, the best ones, are psychedelics.
02:17:36.000Well, you know, in my own case, you know, I basically went from essentially being a juvenile delinquent to the quest for God in one weekend after my first.
02:17:52.000A lot of people have had the same story.
02:17:54.000I mean, Terence McKenna spoke of one of his trips to the jungle being that he was this sort of ne'er-do-well, just couldn't get it together, and then he came out of it this psychedelic shaman who had this intense desire to spread the word.
02:19:07.000Once people figured out a way to perturb their normal states of consciousness and the benefits of that, whether it's alcohol or psychedelics or whatever it's been, even yoga and meditation, you're essentially, you're stimulating endogenous drugs.
02:19:25.000It might have been somebody like Richard Alpert or something back in the day.
02:19:28.000Saying that, you know, you can embark on a quest for spiritual enlightenment and mystical at-one-ment, right, through this arduous program of yoga and meditation and all of that, and it'll take you years.
02:19:43.000But who's going to embark upon such a program not really knowing that the end of it is this ecstatic mystical union with the Godhead, right?
02:19:54.000Well, they said that basically nature's provided shortcuts so that, you know, we could actually see what the goal of it was and know that, yeah, at the end of this process that might take you ten years or five years or whatever, depending on your dedication,
02:20:10.000there is this experience of your consciousness expanding into these ecstatic states.
02:20:16.000Agents of evolution as it were and that's the thing that people I think universally feel from psychedelic experiences is that it allows you to get over a lot of these sort of built-in instincts that we have from our thousands of years of evolution and The time that we were essentially living like wild animals.
02:20:43.000And we have all these ideas of paranoia and fear and ego and jealousy and all these different things that allowed us to be ultra-competitive, which allowed us to innovate at a faster rate, which allowed us to get to where we are in 2015. But those things are kind of hampering us because we're outgrowing the monkey body.
02:21:05.000It's like, you know, if we're going to travel to...
02:21:12.000You can go drive from here to the East Coast, but once you get to the coastline, you have to get out of the car and get into a different vehicle, right?
02:21:19.000Because if you keep driving in the same car, you're going to go into the ocean and you're going to drown, right?
02:21:24.000We're kind of like that in the sense that, you know, see, I think that war was perhaps inevitable, you know, because it's embedded in our consciousness.
02:21:33.000You see, I just showed you here evidence that the human population crashed coming out of the Younger Dryas.
02:21:39.000Well, what's ironic is that after the Ice Age was over, for about three or four thousand years, from six thousand to about nine thousand, nine thousand five hundred years ago, what we had was a period known as the climatic optimum by the scientists who've looked at it,
02:21:56.000in which some of the estimates are that global average climate might have been two to four degrees warmer than now.
02:22:02.000What that meant was that you had a much longer growing season.
02:22:07.000And anybody who doubts this, please do your own research or I can post all kinds of stuff online that anybody who's not immediately, you know, can't handle this kind of information, anybody who's open-minded can actually go and do their homework and see that the climatic optimum is well documented.
02:22:26.000And for about three to four thousand years, Basically, we were living in an almost quasi-paradisial state, almost a Garden of Eden-like.
02:22:36.000It was almost like after the traumatic birth of this modern age, the Holocene that we're in, it's like nature just sort of was this...
02:22:47.000Nurturing environment, it was during this period that humans were worshipping the earth in the form of this corpulent, pregnant goddess, right?
02:22:56.000It's been called the goddess civilization by Maria Gimbutas, who was the archaeologist who did all of this work.
02:23:02.000And what was interesting, if you look into her work, is that during this period of the early Neolithic, in the archaeological terminology, there's no evidence of any warfare.
02:23:13.000There's no evidence that people, you know, looking at the carvings that people did, the artwork that people did, looking at the communities, there were not stockades like there were later.
02:23:25.000There was no evidence in the archaeological record of, you know, weaponization.
02:23:32.000It makes sense because in the aftermath of this extreme event that ended the Ice Age, what you had was huge areas of the planet that were depopulated.
02:23:43.000Nature quickly begins to reclaim and what you now have is you have this sort of this benign warmth where growing seasons are months longer than now.
02:23:56.000You know farming you know 14-15 hundred feet higher in the mountains than is now possible.
02:24:03.000You know You know, longer growing seasons and rapid expansion of population during this era.
02:24:10.000This would have been the era, you know, think about what was the biblical injunction that Yahweh gave to Adam and Eve.
02:24:35.000In the context of those times, it would have been very important for people to have lots of sex to quickly re-establish the viability of the human species because we were literally, it now appears, hovering on the brink of extinction as were so many of the other large mammals of the planet,
02:25:27.000The growing, the elevation of viable agriculture came down.
02:25:32.000Okay, now if you've got settled human communities that have become well-established And living in the context of that environment, and now suddenly that environment changes, right?
02:25:46.000Exactly coincident with those environmental changes around six thousand years ago is when we see the first appearance of human conflict.
02:25:53.000Because now with this change in climate you've got this disruption, this major disruption in human communities that have been well established and proliferating for three or four thousand years.
02:26:03.000Think about, you know, if you're living in a community and you're farming at 10,000 feet above sea level, a smaller example, a micro example, would be the freezing out of the Greenland colonists with the onset of the Little Ice Age, right?
02:26:18.000For 500 years, they were able to farm on the west coast of Greenland.
02:26:23.000And then the Little Ice Age came on and they were frozen out.
02:26:26.000And they tried to hang on as long as they could, but it kept getting harder and harder to grow crops.
02:26:33.000And then the climate declined further and the sea ice began to move south.
02:26:37.000And the ones who waited too long lost their opportunity because once the sea ice had moved south, it cut off the sea lanes so that they could actually evacuate.
02:26:46.000The Greenland colonies completely went extinct.
02:26:49.000Iceland itself was almost completely depopulated during this.
02:26:53.000If we take that scenario, expand it, and go back 6,000 years ago, we essentially see a very similar parallel phenomena going on.
02:27:02.000And so, when you figure, during that Civilization Age of the Goddess, this time that people were worshiping the Earth in the form of this corpulent, pregnant goddess, this benign, motherly, nurturing goddess, there was no reason for conflict, because human populations were small,
02:27:19.000they were isolated, resource base was enormous, And then, with the climate change, what happened?
02:27:26.000Suddenly now, human communities and populations are disrupted, migrations began happening, one group conflicts with another group, and now we see the implements and the evidence of warfare.
02:27:39.000If we go back to 10,000, 12,000 years ago, clearly, whatever happened then, Must have been profoundly traumatic to the survivors.
02:27:49.000If you were the survivor of an event that basically erased modern civilization and you were living in a small isolated band of survivors with no way to communicate with the rest of the world and no knowledge of whether there was even other survivors anywhere on the earth,
02:28:05.000it could profoundly affect your consciousness.
02:28:09.000And that could be so profound That the imprint of those events could be so profound that it could be passed on, you know, for generations and be lodged in our subconscious, this idea of human conflict necessary for human survival and the traumas that have been visited upon our species by nature itself.
02:28:31.000So I think that once we come to terms with the possibly origins of human, only until we come to terms with the origin of human conflict, are we going to be able to purge it once and for all and realize that the modern analog for that scenario was that coming out of that catastrophe,
02:28:53.000a Abundant resources, abundant habitat, abundant space, no conflict for territory or resources because the human population was limited.
02:29:03.000What I suggest is that if people want to understand the viable future of the human species, go out on a crystal clear night and look at the sky.
02:29:15.000There's our potential future because the scenarios that have been around since the 1970s show that everything that we're extracting now from the earth, the minerals, the precious metals, the hydrocarbons, It's all out there in infinite abundance and it's basically just outside of our doorstep.
02:29:34.000And we are as close now to being able to harvest the resources of the cosmic environment as we were from setting foot on the moon in 1960. Do you think we've been visited before by something from other planets?
02:29:49.000I think perhaps long, long ago, maybe.
02:29:53.000But there's another scenario there that has been overlooked in all of the discussions about UFOs and aliens and at some point we'll talk about that.
02:30:26.000In what we were talking about at the very beginning of this interview, and talking about 7,000 generations of people and the fact that in four or five generations we went from horseback to rocket ships, how many times in the last 7,000 years do you suppose that we could have done that?
02:30:45.000To me it's not implausible that we could have achieved flight, even interplanetary flight, more than once.
02:30:55.000We have achieved interplanetary flight, even though only manned expeditions to nearer space, but we're sending our satellites out beyond the solar system.
02:31:10.000My grandfather, when he was a kid, you know, it was horses.
02:31:14.000And a big point is that if we died off now, if there's some sort of mass extinction event, there'd be very little evidence of this space travel.
02:31:29.000Now let's just consider, as a wild, outrageous working hypothesis, The humans have been able to offload from the planet prior to the modern space age.
02:31:43.000So at one point in time we went to Mars?
02:31:45.000There's probably somewhere a little closer than that that would have made sense.
02:32:13.000If we consider the fact that our civilization, if all your theories are true, which they most certainly appear to be, our civilization has been rebooted as of 12,000 years ago.
02:32:24.000Modern civilization emerges somewhere around 7,000 years ago.
02:32:28.000And 4.6 billion years of life on Earth, or excuse me, of the life of the Earth, the Earth existing, and then life on Earth being in our form...
02:32:38.000What, a few hundred thousand years, right?
02:32:41.000And a hundred thousand years is a long time.
02:33:10.000But conservatively, we can say 180,000 years.
02:33:13.000That Greenland ice core graph that I showed you goes back 250. So the Rig Veda stories of the Vamanas and the flying crafts and all that could actually have been based on real live objects, real live spaceships.
02:34:12.000Well, but what's fascinating is there's so much that they absolutely understood that's really confusing.
02:34:19.000Like they understood they had an accurate depiction of our solar system which included Pluto, which included all the planets in all the orbit in the correct, you know, relatively correct sizes on these clay tablets that they made 9,000,
02:34:38.0007,000, who knows how many thousand years ago.
02:34:42.000Yeah, I guess I'm, you know, I read some Sitchin stuff years and years ago and at the time took it with a grain of salt and subsequent to that, you know, after I've seen some of the critiques of him, you know, I'm kind of in that category myself of thinking his,
02:34:58.000you know, some of his translations are dubious.
02:35:03.000But what they did discover, what they have discovered...
02:35:06.000It's so fascinating to me when you look at the caduceus, which very clearly resembles the double helix of DNA and how it's closely associated with some of these images of larger beings holding little smaller people with tails.
02:35:23.000Like, this idea of genetic engineering, of taking lower primates and introducing...
02:35:29.000Human or alien DNA into these lower primates to create modern humans?
02:35:35.000I don't know what to think about that.
02:35:36.000It sounds ridiculous, but if we found a planet like let's say we exist in this state right now and And we evolve without getting hit in the head by a big rock from space for another thousand years or another 10,000 years.
02:35:55.000Just imagine how far we could come if we don't blow ourselves up, Yellowstone doesn't explode, we live another 10,000 years and we jet off into the cosmos and find some planet with a bunch of dumb monkeys on it.
02:36:08.000You don't think we would splice our DNA into those dumb monkeys just to say, listen, I think you guys could do better.
02:36:28.000Well, from our superior perspective, we know that you guys down there are living on a vulnerable planet that's going to have its ass kicked every so often.
02:36:36.000So we're going to do something to accelerate your evolution a bit so that perhaps you can become a little bit more intelligent and figure this out.
02:36:44.000We're going to leave some clues behind for you, and then we're going to leave it in your hands to basically redeem the planet.
02:36:54.000It's amazing how often people just will completely dismiss any ideas like that, but yet...
02:37:01.000We're very advanced compared to life on Earth, but clearly we're advancing into the solar system at the very least with robots.
02:37:12.000We haven't really been doing manned space trips anymore, but we're sending a lot of fucking robots.
02:37:46.000I don't even want to hear such ridiculous talk.
02:37:49.000But like you just said, considering the pace of change over the last century, you know, given as a century ago, there was no airline industry.
02:37:58.000Of course, the thing was, if you had the government bureaucracies like you have now back then, Orville and Wilbur would have never been able to test their flights because some government bureaucrat would have been out there saying, you don't have the proper permits to do this.
02:38:12.000And right now, one of the big obstacles is that we've got these top-heavy political systems that are really, I think, really encumbering the creative process, the evolutionary process.
02:38:24.000That's why I'm such a big supporter of, basically, freedom.
02:38:29.000Getting back to the idea of individual liberty, because I think the upside of people being free Yeah, of course there's a cost to freedom, and there's going to be a downside to it.
02:38:39.000But the upside, I think, again, is so much greater than the downside that lets you do it.
02:38:44.000Well, that's what the Internet is showing.
02:38:45.000The Internet represents freedom, the ability to freely distribute information.
02:38:51.000This show itself would have never existed.
02:38:55.000This podcast could not have existed without something like the internet.
02:38:58.000No one would have ever given me a show.
02:39:00.000No one would ever, like, said, yeah, go talk to this guy from Georgia for three hours about asteroid impacts.
02:39:35.000In my own personal sphere, like I'm building a project right now in Atlanta, It took me six months and nine trips down to City Hall to get permission from the bureaucrats to do a small project, which 20 years ago, I could have gotten that permission in an hour or two.
02:39:53.00020 years before that, I would not have even needed permission from anybody.
02:39:58.000You know, oh, you've got your own house.
02:40:07.000Multiply that by millions across the board.
02:40:09.000You know, it's like, you know, it's going to get to the point where, you know, can we, do we dare breathe out without a permit because we're exhaling carbon dioxide?
02:40:54.000You know, and that might be one of the things that we're experiencing with this new culture that's emerging from the internet.
02:41:01.000It's kind of emerging in response to the resistance that we received from, I mean, going back to psychedelics, from the 60s to the 70s, the 70s into the 80s, and then the 90s, the internet emerges.
02:41:12.000And the internet is causing this big pushback on all the archaic ideas that are being promoted during those dark decades.
02:42:09.000The Jewish Kabbalists have a term for that, which I can't remember, but it translates as the bread of shame.
02:42:14.000And it's like the bread of shame is the bread you get that you didn't really have to work for, you didn't have to struggle, you didn't have to put forward any effort, it's just given to you.
02:42:24.000And it's like one of the stories that kind of goes along with presenting that is the man who builds up this great business empire and then he's getting ready to retire and he wants to pass it on to his son and he says,
02:42:41.000you know, come in I'm going to make you CEO of my business empire and you're going to be able to run the whole thing and the son says, no thanks I don't want it.
02:42:50.000It says, well, let me start at the bottom and work my way up and earn that position.
02:42:55.000And it's going to mean a whole lot more to me, and I'm going to be a hell of a lot more effective in that position than if it's just dumped in my lap.
02:43:01.000It's just so rare that anybody has that mentality, though.
02:43:04.000Most people would take the easy road every single time.
02:43:07.000Well, and that is to the consternation, I think, of our ancestors who didn't look at it that way.
02:43:12.000You know, the people that came across the ocean, you know, at great hardship, didn't look at it that way.
02:43:18.000And I think that they would be pretty much rolling in their graves if they could see, you know, what's basically, oh, well, we'll just let the government take care of us.
02:44:05.000The sacred geometry name, why did you choose that as the name for your website?
02:44:11.000Well because at the time I was looking at there was so much interest and because I saw it as a venue for putting information out there about that and showing some of the amazing correlations and linkages you know between the subject of geometry and so many of these other things like I said you know the Mayan temples Egyptian yeah and helping using that as a key to decipher or decode these messages that have been have been Embodied
02:44:54.000Actually, I can show you now studies that have shown that the exact architecture of the solar system, if you change it even a little bit, None of this could happen, you know, because as it is now, you have this great reservoir of comets outside the orbit of Neptune called the Kuiper disk,
02:45:12.000At the inside of that, on the inner perimeter of that disk of comets, comets are in a quasi-stable condition.
02:45:20.000In other words, it doesn't take much to perturb them from that position, but at the same time, there isn't much there to perturb them.
02:45:27.000So they generally are just slowly orbiting the Sun.
02:45:31.000Well, what happens is conjunctions of the great outer planets, Uranus and Neptune primarily, the combined gravitational forces exerted on the inner part of the Kuiper disk are enough to dislodge comets and send them either.
02:45:44.000The gravity effect, think of this, If you've got a gravity effect pulling on something from behind and it's moving this way, it's going to act as a braking mechanism.
02:45:53.000If it's a head and drawing on it, it's going to act as an accelerating mechanism.
02:45:58.000So if you accelerate one of these objects, it moves out further from the sun.
02:46:03.000If you decelerate it, it moves in closer to the sun.
02:46:07.000What happens is that the conjunctions of the outer planets can move these comets inside, become within the sphere of influence of the planets.
02:46:17.000And it just so happens, and astrophysicists have worked out the mathematics of it, that the masses and the spacing of the four great outer planets, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune, are exactly what they need to be To transport comets from the Kuiper disk to the inner solar system.
02:46:35.000And if you change that, even a little bit, you would lose this, they refer to it as the bucket mechanism, or like a bucket handoff.
02:46:46.000Each planet will hand off the comet to the next one.
02:46:49.000And then when it gets to Jupiter, the big one, like you said earlier, Jupiter is either going to accelerate it and throw it back out, Or it's going to decelerate it and send it in towards the sun where it becomes an earth crosser where it begins to disaggregate and in the process fertilize the earth with its constituents,
02:47:07.000which we now know are all kinds of interesting and exotic materials.
02:47:13.000So, if it turns out, and it almost certainly will, in terms of the panspermia idea, that life was originated onto Earth by comets, that you had to have an environment that was conducive, you had to have this matrix of environmental conditions, that if were altered slightly,
02:47:29.000would not allow the proliferation of higher life, you now have the introduction of cometary material into that.
02:47:36.000Well, if the architecture of the outer solar system was not exactly lined up in the geometry that it is, Then, you would never have that delivery of the organics and the volatiles from the comet.
02:47:47.000In fact, it's likely that the oceans, that the hydrosphere originated from space.
02:47:52.000Without the oceans, where would life on Earth be, you see?
02:47:56.000Now, here's where it gets interesting.
02:47:58.000The architecture of the solar system is what's condensed and embodied within the sacred architecture of old.
02:48:06.000So they've taken those proportions, however that got there, whether they knew it directly or on some subconscious level, and incorporated that into the designs and the proportions of the ancient sacred structures, it's there.
02:48:20.000Basically, the model of the Holy City, the New Jerusalem that's described in the Book of Revelations, is basically a model of the solar system architecture.
02:48:44.000And that law being that the size and mass of a planet allows you to extrapolate and find out how big and far away the next planet would be?
02:49:13.000And also, Earth-1 and Earth-2, they know that Earth was, at one point in time, different and it was impacted and that's also what created the Moon, right?
02:50:22.000And again, when I show this to people, I usually rely on a lot of graphs and images and in reproductions, geometric diagrams and so on.
02:50:31.000But basically, it's describing the city lieth four square, the length, the height and the breadth of it are equal 12,000 furlongs, and there's a wall great and high 144 cubits, according to the measure of a man that is of the angel.
02:50:43.000And then it goes on to describe other things.
02:50:45.000But when you begin to do the analysis of these numbers, you discover it opens up this whole world of numerical symbolism.
02:50:55.000The 12,000 furlongs, you know how much a furlong is?
02:51:12.000Now, if you were to take the Earth, right?
02:51:15.000The Earth, you know, is an oblate spheroid.
02:51:17.000It spins on its axis, so it bulges towards the equator, shrinks towards the polar axis, so the difference is about 7,900 miles at the polar axis, about 7,926 miles at the equatorial axis.
02:51:30.000But if you were to take a perfect sphere with the same surface area as the Earth actually has, that sphere would be 7,920 miles in diameter.
02:51:41.000Now, that number, 7920, is a very interesting number because, for one thing, if we look at a furlong, a furlong is 660 feet.
02:51:53.000So, I'm putting 660. Why don't you take that calculator there?
02:52:25.000And that's actually the diameter of the Earth.
02:52:28.000If you took a line from the Tropic of Cancer, 23.5 degrees north, through the Earth to the Tropic of Capricorn, you would discover that that diameter is about 7,920 miles.
02:52:39.000That's the number which I'm theorizing and I'm thinking with a lot of Evidence to back up that ancient peoples used to symbolize the Earth, 7920. But what you've just seen here is that this ancient unit of measurement called the furlong,
02:52:55.000which is 660 feet, is to the inch exactly as the Earth is to the mile.
02:53:42.000So if you were to go out and walk off a thousand paces, say counting, every time your right foot hit the ground, and you did that a thousand times, you're going to have a mile, more or less, depending on your size.
02:53:55.000You know, I'm six foot one, so I'm going to have a slightly longer pace than somebody who's five foot five, right?
02:54:02.000But that's where the origin of the mile comes from, from a thousand paces.
02:54:07.000And that's standardized, but it's very ancient, see?
02:54:13.000The outer circle of Stonehenge, the Sarson Stone Circle, if you were to encompass it in a circle that's just tangent to the outer faces of the stone, the radius of that circle has been measured and it's almost exactly 52.8 feet,
02:54:48.000It suggests that the mile was being used by those who built Stonehenge 5,000 years ago.
02:54:55.000But you see this number 5.28 is a universal relationship.
02:55:02.000For one thing, it says the average human pace Related to the foot, which again, remember Protagoras said, man is the measure of all things, right?
02:55:46.000From the human yardstick or the earth itself.
02:55:50.000So now, if you take the average human pace, divide it by the average human foot, it's 5.28.
02:55:58.000Multiply that by a thousand and you have the mile of 5,280 feet.
02:56:03.000I'm suggesting that that unit of measurement was actually incorporated into the design of Stonehenge.
02:56:11.000Now, what we have just seen is that the description of the New Jerusalem in the Book of Revelations describes it as being 12,000 furlongs, which again is an ancient British unit of measurement, but probably used way beyond Britain.
02:56:27.000and when we look at the ratio of the furlong if we took out in the parking lot here and laid out a furlong 660 feet and then marked off one inch on it That furlong to that inch would be exactly the same as the diameter of the earth to the mile.
02:56:44.000Now, in the book of Revelations, what it says is that the New Jerusalem is 12,000 of these furlongs.
02:56:52.000So if you take 660, which I put in there, times 12,000, look at the number that comes up again.
02:57:33.000Now, if you take that number, and I'm going to go to the earth itself, 7920, and divide it by the New Jerusalem, divide by 1500, there's the ratio we get.
02:58:13.000Now, I think it's going to be beyond our ability today to really get into that.
02:58:18.000But this is the kind of thing, when you begin to peel back these layers, you begin to discover that there are these ratios built into this.
02:59:20.000A lot of this information that I've been talking about here is on our DVD. That you can get online, Cosmic Patterns and Cycles of Catastrophe, where you get all of the images and a lot of the background and the stuff that we went into.
02:59:34.000So if you go to the Sacred Geometry International website, you'll be able to find a link and find out all about it.