The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #631

00:00:03.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:05.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:07.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Yee-haw, ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:14.000 International man of leisure and the first ever, the youngest ever, UFC heavyweight champion, Josh Barnett, ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:21.000 I highly stress leisure.

00:00:23.000 They can't take that from you.

00:00:24.000 No, they can't.

00:00:25.000 Because I'm laying on top of it right now with a bag of Oreos and my feet propped up on a lovely lady.

00:00:33.000 Unless some Mike Tyson-type character comes around and wins it at 20. You got that shit locked up.

00:00:39.000 I don't really see that happening.

00:00:40.000 It's weird, isn't it?

00:00:41.000 The heavyweight division is weird.

00:00:42.000 Well, ever since a lot of that drug testing came into play, you're not going to see an 18-year-old roll up into the UFC at over 200 and some odd pounds and just start laying into people.

00:00:54.000 Isn't it possible, though, like one of those freak athletes that would normally make it into the NFL? Maybe he's got a dad that's been a martial arts instructor his whole life, that kind of thing?

00:01:04.000 Sure.

00:01:05.000 I could see it, but then again, The pull is, if you could make it into the NFL, you're almost, okay, I'm going to take all that money now and play in the NFL, and then if I feel like being a fighter, I'll do that.

00:01:20.000 Right.

00:01:21.000 Like Herschel Walker did.

00:01:22.000 Like Herschel Walker did.

00:01:24.000 Although, I mean, he is a freak of freak of freaks.

00:01:26.000 I mean, when you look at Herschel...

00:01:28.000 He shouldn't be in the kind of shape he is at his age.

00:01:31.000 Yeah, and he says he eats like a bowl of soup and a salad every day.

00:01:34.000 And a Snickers bar or something, yeah.

00:01:36.000 He's got some weird thing going on too, though.

00:01:38.000 He has multiple personality disorder that's trauma-induced.

00:01:42.000 Maybe one of those personalities eats while the other one doesn't know about it.

00:01:47.000 The other one's working out all the time.

00:01:48.000 And so you're getting all your caloric needs from one guy, and the other guy's doing all the working out.

00:01:53.000 The other dude jerks you off.

00:01:55.000 Then you have the one dude that does your taxes.

00:01:58.000 Right.

00:01:58.000 It could be a useful thing.

00:02:00.000 It would definitely be a useful thing for your mind.

00:02:02.000 If you compartmentalize like that, you could really pretend you don't jerk off and really pretend that you don't eat and you just have a bowl of salad and a soup and you're fucking Superman.

00:02:10.000 I barely even lift weights.

00:02:12.000 Meanwhile, you got fucking white powder all over your hand from chalk, from Olympic lifting, your fucking calluses.

00:02:19.000 Where are you getting those calluses from, man?

00:02:20.000 I don't know what you're talking about, man.

00:02:22.000 That ain't me.

00:02:23.000 That's Mike.

00:02:23.000 A bunch of engine blocks out in the front yard all overturned.

00:02:26.000 Mike lives.

00:02:27.000 This part of my brain, back here.

00:02:29.000 Mark did it.

00:02:30.000 Yeah, he was like 48 or 49 in his last fight in Strikeforce, and he just looks like a fucking Greek god.

00:02:37.000 Yeah, that's the kind of guy that I don't even think science could be that well.

00:02:41.000 You know what I mean?

00:02:41.000 There are guys out there that...

00:02:43.000 Like, I have a buddy, Mike O'Hearn, right?

00:02:46.000 He's 40, I don't know, 46?

00:02:48.000 Something like that?

00:02:49.000 And he's a family friend from way back in the day.

00:02:51.000 He's from Juanita, Redmond, Washington, originally.

00:02:55.000 He's friends with my brother-in-law.

00:02:58.000 Everybody, we all know him.

00:03:00.000 We've known him for a long time.

00:03:02.000 Ridiculous shape.

00:03:03.000 He can get up to, I don't know, 285, still fairly lean, pull 700 pounds off the floor, 800 pounds, just ridiculous amount of strength.

00:03:12.000 Then he can go ahead and shred down to 244 or something because of 242 to do some photo shoot.

00:03:19.000 Mr. Olympia, a little, here I'm here for this supplement company or that supplement company or guest thing here.

00:03:27.000 And still in training do, I don't know, 600 for reps squatting.

00:03:33.000 And you're just looking at him going, you know, his whole thing is being a natural bodybuilder his whole life.

00:03:39.000 But there's nothing you could say that could ever diminish his...

00:03:46.000 What he's done because there's nobody else out there.

00:03:51.000 I don't care what you shoved in him or what you didn't shove in him.

00:03:53.000 You can't be that guy.

00:03:55.000 Right.

00:03:55.000 He's just that sick, strong, and he still looks like he's like 30. So you're just like, you won the genetic lottery.

00:04:02.000 Unless you have some sort of crazy, radical genetic engineering down the pipe, which probably is going to happen within a lifetime, maybe.

00:04:08.000 But yeah, there's some dudes, no matter how much steroids they take, you're never going to compete with some ridiculous freak athlete.

00:04:16.000 No, Mike is one of the most genetically gifted and hardworking, of course, too, people I have ever seen.

00:04:25.000 He also has a world record for running through plate glass windows.

00:04:30.000 Yeah, no shit he does, right?

00:04:32.000 How many people were competing in that race?

00:04:34.000 Football gear and a helmet, and they line up these plate glass windows in this huge, long line, like a two-line or three-line deal.

00:04:45.000 Like dominoes?

00:04:46.000 No, no, no.

00:04:47.000 Each one is individually set up, and he smashes through the first, the second, and he keeps going, you know?

00:04:52.000 And sometimes you run into him, it bounces you back, and you just got to keep driving.

00:04:55.000 Oh, my God.

00:04:56.000 He's also got a black belt in judo.

00:04:58.000 Jesus Christ.

00:04:59.000 He was on the American Gladiators.

00:05:00.000 He was on Battledome.

00:05:04.000 Battledome?

00:05:04.000 Battledome.

00:05:05.000 I kind of remember that.

00:05:07.000 Who was Battledome again?

00:05:09.000 I think lower rent American Gladiators.

00:05:11.000 It was meaner and people got hurt more.

00:05:13.000 Oh, that's right.

00:05:14.000 Everybody had a very...

00:05:17.000 Obnoxious or ostentatious, very gregarious character, very over the top.

00:05:21.000 And so he was Mike Odell, like the perfect Greek god.

00:05:24.000 Although Odell, come on, that's not very Greek.

00:05:27.000 But then, you know, who else was on there was...

00:05:32.000 God, I can't remember his name.

00:05:32.000 He played in the NFL. He's incredibly funny.

00:05:36.000 Terry Crews.

00:05:37.000 Terry Crews.

00:05:38.000 Terry Crews is on Battledome.

00:05:39.000 Was he really?

00:05:40.000 Yeah, he was.

00:05:40.000 I don't remember.

00:05:41.000 And then there was another guy.

00:05:43.000 You know, Eric Paulson used to train them.

00:05:44.000 And Eric even did the psycho guy gimmick, the Hannibal Lecter deal.

00:05:48.000 And they had an event on there where you'd have to get a guy off this platform over the lines.

00:05:57.000 And Eric used to just murder everybody in that event.

00:06:01.000 And then one of our guys who is one of our CSW dudes, he actually went on to Battle Dome at one point, Jay Martinez, way back in the day.

00:06:10.000 And he wrecked all the dudes that he saw who got onto the platform, the push-out one.

00:06:16.000 He just fucked them all up.

00:06:18.000 And they hated him so bad.

00:06:21.000 Because there was another event where it was football-esque.

00:06:25.000 You know, Terry Crews and Mike would just practically take people's heads completely off their body.

00:06:30.000 It was really bad.

00:06:31.000 I'm surprised that when they redid that, they redid not this one, but the other one, Gladiators.

00:06:37.000 Why didn't that take off?

00:06:38.000 It seems like that would take off.

00:06:39.000 They had Hulk Hogan, Leila Ali, Gina Carano was one of the ass kickers.

00:06:44.000 What channel was that, though?

00:06:45.000 NBC, I think it was.

00:06:46.000 It was during the writer's strike.

00:06:48.000 Was it during the writer's strike?

00:06:50.000 That's right.

00:06:50.000 Yeah, writer's strike.

00:06:51.000 Yeah, but it's still a reality show.

00:06:53.000 That seems like it would be an easy one to do.

00:06:57.000 That Wipeout is kind of similar, but no one kicks your ass.

00:07:00.000 Right.

00:07:01.000 People love that kind of shit.

00:07:02.000 American Ninja Warrior.

00:07:03.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:07:03.000 That's another one.

00:07:04.000 I don't know why it didn't actually continue as well.

00:07:06.000 I figured, well, it has a little bit of distance in it.

00:07:09.000 Two seasons and that shit was done.

00:07:12.000 Whenever you have people that you have hired, like you hire a Josh Barnett and you have to smash some dude who's competing, it gets kind of weird.

00:07:23.000 You're not competing against another person, you're competing against a hired guy.

00:07:29.000 If the guy gets hurt, if someone gets hurt and you hurt him, it could be pretty easy to sue the company that makes that show.

00:07:39.000 Like you're an employee.

00:07:40.000 If some dude makes a run at you and you fucking clothesline him and he's paralyzed.

00:07:44.000 Yeah, but waivers, man, they fight those things.

00:07:47.000 And when you fight them, if a lawsuit is strong enough, it's got enough power behind it, enough legal power behind it.

00:07:54.000 I wonder if that was it.

00:07:55.000 Probably not.

00:07:56.000 It's probably just ratings.

00:07:57.000 I think it was just ratings.

00:07:58.000 Yeah.

00:07:59.000 I think it was just ratings.

00:08:00.000 It's interesting when you think about what guys are capable of, like, physically, with maximizing your genetic potential.

00:08:08.000 Like, there's a certain level that you can't get past.

00:08:12.000 And it's one of the reasons, like, when everyone talks about, like, steroids and performance-enhancing drugs and what's fair and what's not fair, one thing that's 100% not fair is nature.

00:08:24.000 That's true.

00:08:25.000 It's not fair at all.

00:08:26.000 Nature's a bitch.

00:08:26.000 Nature will murder you, will drown you, will set you on fire, and will also just let you show up, you know, the proverbial gene pool that's been pissed in, you know, get born with stubby fingers or half a leg or, like, Down syndrome.

00:08:42.000 Like, well...

00:08:43.000 Good luck!

00:08:43.000 See how that works.

00:08:45.000 Yeah, and if you're an athlete, no matter what you do, like there's certain guys, you know, the Herschel Walkers, there's certain types of dudes that just are always going to have that giant advantage, no matter what you do.

00:08:56.000 And yet, Herschel was a fan, he was a really...

00:08:59.000 Well-versed.

00:09:01.000 He had a good career in the NFL, but he never was the guy more than anyone else.

00:09:08.000 He had some years, and you always knew he was solid, but he never was the top dude.

00:09:16.000 Really?

00:09:16.000 I didn't know that.

00:09:17.000 No, he was never the number one guy.

00:09:18.000 And often, later on in his career, he was usually the backup guy or the dude who got brought in for all the all-purpose yardage.

00:09:26.000 Because Herschel could run and catch.

00:09:28.000 I bet if you threw the ball to him, he could throw a pass downfield.

00:09:33.000 He could probably play defensive end.

00:09:35.000 And then they would do those NFL... Off-season competition things, right?

00:09:41.000 Where they'd take all these different players on NBC or something, and they would all compete against each other in little events.

00:09:48.000 Throwing the football through hoops and through tires and sumo and the beach sand.

00:09:55.000 All this different stuff, right?

00:09:57.000 Battle of the Network Stars, right?

00:09:58.000 It was like that kind of thing, but just for NFL players.

00:10:01.000 The NFL would do it.

00:10:02.000 And Herschel Walker won every single one of them.

00:10:05.000 Really?

00:10:06.000 Every time.

00:10:07.000 But he was not the best running back in the NFL during his entire career.

00:10:13.000 He was not the best fullback.

00:10:15.000 But he could play fullback, running back, quarterback.

00:10:18.000 He didn't get fucked up either.

00:10:21.000 Bo Jackson's out there crushing everybody, just eating yards up.

00:10:26.000 Boom, his hip goes out.

00:10:29.000 Or Steve Itman taking interceptions and running him back 90-some yards as a defensive tackle at the end.

00:10:36.000 And boom, his knee gets blown out.

00:10:38.000 Stuff like that.

00:10:39.000 Not Hershel Walker.

00:10:41.000 He doesn't get hurt.

00:10:42.000 Yeah, it's weird, right?

00:10:43.000 Yeah, he's a specimen.

00:10:45.000 But he never was, like I said, he was never the number one guy.

00:10:48.000 Right.

00:10:48.000 Did you see that thing recently about Jeremy Horn?

00:10:51.000 Jeremy Horn...

00:10:51.000 He said zero injuries?

00:10:53.000 Zero injuries.

00:10:53.000 Over 117 fights or something?

00:10:56.000 That's...

00:10:56.000 Insane.

00:10:57.000 I have no idea.

00:10:58.000 He must be made out of fucking flubber or rubbermaid or whatever.

00:11:01.000 You know, he just bounces back out.

00:11:03.000 Yeah, they call him Gumby.

00:11:04.000 That's always been his nickname.

00:11:05.000 Right.

00:11:06.000 You know, he just says it's just he focuses only on technique and he's never a strong guy.

00:11:10.000 Well, he he's got a point and it's something that I've stressed a lot when we talk about fighting and that is so many guys have Learn how to be stronger and faster with or without drugs and learn how to defend certain positions and hit hard,

00:11:27.000 but they don't have a full, well-rounded skill set.

00:11:30.000 They've all got these plan A's and their plan B sucks.

00:11:34.000 And their plan C isn't even a thing.

00:11:36.000 And then when they slow down a step, they lose a little bit.

00:11:40.000 They come up across a guy who's either stronger and faster or just a little better striker or too good at something that will derail their plan A. They start losing.

00:11:52.000 When they start losing, they just nosedive.

00:11:54.000 They lose four fights, five fights.

00:11:56.000 These guys that would go out there and mop these dudes up.

00:11:58.000 Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

00:12:00.000 Turns a corner.

00:12:00.000 Pfft.

00:12:02.000 They can't sustain a career because they have no technique.

00:12:04.000 They do not have the finesse, the touch, the feel.

00:12:09.000 They don't own it.

00:12:10.000 They never developed it.

00:12:12.000 They just became really strong, really fast, hit hard, overwhelmed, out-athlete their opponent.

00:12:17.000 Would you call a front-runner?

00:12:19.000 Yes, for the most part.

00:12:21.000 And watch, you know, you watch these fights and how, oh man, this fight's going to be so good!

00:12:25.000 And then it's...

00:12:26.000 Whoever skits out first, oh, that guy wins.

00:12:31.000 Whoever's plan A starts first, wins the fight.

00:12:34.000 It's interesting.

00:12:35.000 When you look at MMA, too, it's so few guys are what you would call durable.

00:12:40.000 You know, it's very difficult to, like, you see, like, Stipe Miocic versus Junior Dos Santos.

00:12:46.000 One of those crazy fucking five-round wars.

00:12:50.000 There's so few guys that can engage in those kind of wars.

00:12:54.000 And...

00:12:56.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:12:58.000 And honestly, especially as a heavyweight, with all that power and strength...

00:13:04.000 You go through that, what's your next fight going to be like?

00:13:07.000 And your next one, and your next one, and how many of those do you really want to get involved in?

00:13:11.000 Yeah, like when you see a guy like Junior, and you see those wars that he had with Kane, and, you know, you knowing your...

00:13:17.000 I mean, you've had a long career, man.

00:13:19.000 You knowing, like, the toll that a fight like that takes on your body.

00:13:22.000 Do you see him diminished at all?

00:13:24.000 Do you see him slowed down?

00:13:25.000 Yes, he's a step.

00:13:26.000 He's a step slower.

00:13:28.000 Junior is a step slower.

00:13:29.000 He's not quite as durable.

00:13:30.000 He doesn't react the same way to getting hit as he used to.

00:13:34.000 Uh...

00:13:36.000 And here's the thing, someone might get on Twitter after this and go, oh, Josh Barnett says that you're not as good as you used to be, Junior.

00:13:44.000 Nah, that's not an insult.

00:13:47.000 What it's saying is that What you have been through, what you have done through to yourself in training, and what your body is and isn't willing to accept or isn't willing to or is able to do just by the natural string of how things went in terms of your career to this point,

00:14:04.000 this is what it is.

00:14:07.000 Take what you have now and adapt it.

00:14:11.000 In the end, it's up to you to decide whether or not what you're going to do is going to be successful.

00:14:18.000 If you're so set in your mind that it can only be done one way, then when that way is no longer what is best for you to do as an athlete, prepare to have the shit kicked out of you.

00:14:30.000 If you're willing to adapt, reapply the things that you've already done well, add some new things in, just do them a little differently, make small changes, well then now you can go ahead and you can have 19 years of career instead of 7, 6, whatever.

00:14:44.000 You know what I mean?

00:14:46.000 If you could run out there and double leg everybody in the beginning, but now you can't do that anymore, but instead you were able to set your double leg up...

00:14:53.000 It makes people react, hit them on the way up, or hit them and then get a body lock and finish that way.

00:14:59.000 How is that any fucking worse than what you were doing before?

00:15:02.000 Just because you didn't do it how you used to, but you're still getting to where you want to be?

00:15:07.000 To me, it's still success.

00:15:09.000 It's an interesting situation where you see there's some guys that still have a single-minded pursuit.

00:15:15.000 They have a single-minded skill set.

00:15:17.000 They just want to wrestle and box.

00:15:18.000 That's it.

00:15:19.000 They never throw leg kicks.

00:15:20.000 And those guys are going to get their fucking shit pushed in once they come over that imaginary line.

00:15:26.000 You don't know when that's going to be, but it's going to happen.

00:15:29.000 And then they're going to fucking nosedive.

00:15:31.000 They're going to be washed-up has-beens.

00:15:33.000 So it seems like in this day and age, especially, you kind of like, okay, like it's certain divisions.

00:15:39.000 Like there's certain divisions.

00:15:40.000 Like say if you want to fight flyweight, you better be able to do everything.

00:15:43.000 You know, Mighty Mouse is just so goddamn good.

00:15:45.000 You want to fight that guy, you better be able to do everything.

00:15:47.000 And he's a rarity.

00:15:48.000 Most guys are not going to be him.

00:15:49.000 Right.

00:15:50.000 And I've known DJ since he was...

00:15:54.000 Just this kid up at the gym who was too small to really get any fights in a weight class that he really belongs in.

00:16:00.000 And he trained diligently.

00:16:04.000 Even when he knew he wasn't going to get fights, he was in the gym day after day, training and training and training.

00:16:10.000 Training hard, training easy, training fast, training slow, training.

00:16:14.000 And doing what Matt told him that he needed to do.

00:16:18.000 And that's why he is the way he is now.

00:16:21.000 When I trained under Matt, I did the same thing.

00:16:24.000 I trained constantly.

00:16:25.000 I trained when Matt wasn't around.

00:16:27.000 When it was my own free time, I spent that going over what was working, what wasn't working.

00:16:32.000 Why was this working?

00:16:33.000 Why wasn't this working?

00:16:34.000 How can I make these better?

00:16:37.000 Shadowboxing, figuring things out, altering, and the things that Matt would say, well, I need you to do this.

00:16:44.000 I don't really understand why or what.

00:16:47.000 Can you explain it to me?

00:16:48.000 Well, because I need you to do this so that you can do this.

00:16:52.000 Create, elicit this reaction, whatever.

00:16:55.000 Well, I still don't get it, but I know what you want, where this is supposed to lead to.

00:17:00.000 I'll figure it out.

00:17:01.000 I will play with it and play with it and play with it and play with it.

00:17:05.000 Not talking about my cock.

00:17:08.000 But in addition to that, I will keep playing with it until it makes sense to me.

00:17:13.000 And then I can come back and now I can ask a question that has purpose to it.

00:17:18.000 Instead of just, I don't get it.

00:17:20.000 Of course you don't get it.

00:17:22.000 You're not going to get it.

00:17:23.000 Lots of things you're just not going to get the first time until you live in it.

00:17:27.000 Until you wrap it around you like a skin and understand it.

00:17:32.000 And then you might even make a decision to go...

00:17:35.000 What you want me to accomplish with this, it isn't that effective for me to do it this way, but if I just make a little change to it because of the way I'm built, because of my own natural tendencies, what have you.

00:17:50.000 We're good to go.

00:18:09.000 It's just not my move.

00:18:10.000 I'm not really built for it.

00:18:12.000 He was built for it.

00:18:13.000 He made it work better.

00:18:14.000 And the same was with Paulson, you know, just sitting there and taking all this information in and understanding.

00:18:21.000 And Paulson's background is even more varied than Matt's.

00:18:23.000 So he'll come at me and go, okay, hey, do this.

00:18:25.000 I'm like, that's really from left field.

00:18:29.000 Okay.

00:18:30.000 But there's a reason.

00:18:32.000 I'll figure it out.

00:18:33.000 I'll figure that out.

00:18:34.000 Is that one of the more frustrating things about being an MMA fighter when you try to talk to people that don't know fighting?

00:18:41.000 There's so much complexity and so much technique involved.

00:18:45.000 And the person on the outside, it seems to be like a brute sport involving strength and weight.

00:18:50.000 And it does involve those things.

00:18:55.000 What's that?

00:18:56.000 Aliens.

00:18:57.000 But it's not.

00:19:00.000 We've had alarm issues in this fucking building.

00:19:03.000 I saw them all trying to get in.

00:19:05.000 I had to fight my way to the front door.

00:19:07.000 Glad you made it through, dude.

00:19:08.000 A lot of people don't understand how many different techniques are involved and how many variables are involved in training.

00:19:15.000 I can't be too angry at the ignorance of the casual fan.

00:19:21.000 It's not their job to be that first.

00:19:26.000 The fan that does go that extra mile and learn about the history, learn about why this technique would work and who these people are and where they come from and what this is and what that is, that's awesome and amazing and I really appreciate that.

00:19:40.000 I don't begrudge the person that doesn't.

00:19:45.000 I don't like it when they say really ignorant, mean-spirited stuff.

00:19:49.000 You know what I mean?

00:19:49.000 But that's a different thing altogether.

00:19:51.000 That's somebody trying to be a dick on purpose to try and cut somebody else down.

00:19:55.000 That's a whole different animal.

00:19:56.000 But just not understanding, it's okay.

00:20:00.000 Personally, when I get into something, I do want to fully understand it.

00:20:03.000 But that's just the kind of person that I am.

00:20:04.000 I don't even mean people that are into it.

00:20:06.000 I mean the casual person that is not aware of MMA. It's a fascinating thing that so many people...

00:20:12.000 Yeah, that person is...

00:20:15.000 You know what?

00:20:16.000 It could be anything.

00:20:18.000 And fighting is something that is available and exists within every human being.

00:20:23.000 The ability to fight.

00:20:24.000 Everybody has the ability to fight.

00:20:26.000 You've never seen Brian fight, obviously.

00:20:28.000 I didn't say fight well.

00:20:30.000 He doesn't even have the ability.

00:20:33.000 He just starts falling down.

00:20:35.000 I'll just try to kiss you or something.

00:20:37.000 Yeah, just make it really awkward.

00:20:39.000 Make it awkward so you just want to leave.

00:20:41.000 Just put his mouth open so you don't want to punch his tongue.

00:20:43.000 Just hold on to your belt loops and just...

00:20:49.000 Offer his shoes up to you.

00:20:51.000 You would look really good in these.

00:20:52.000 What's been the biggest change over your career?

00:20:54.000 I mean, because you've been around for, you know, I think the first time I saw you fight was 96 or 97. Something along those lines.

00:21:04.000 What year was Super Brawl when you were fighting Super Brawl?

00:21:07.000 99. 99. That's what it was?

00:21:09.000 Yeah, 99 was the tournament.

00:21:12.000 2000 was Dan Severin.

00:21:13.000 And then 2001 was my first UFC fight.

00:21:16.000 So what was your first MMA fight?

00:21:18.000 Your first ever MMA fight?

00:21:19.000 My first ever MMA fight was probably...

00:21:22.000 It was 1997 of January.

00:21:26.000 I was on winter vacation from the University of Montana.

00:21:29.000 And I got a call from an old wrestling coach.

00:21:32.000 Because he knew I was training.

00:21:34.000 He knew I was into it.

00:21:35.000 And at the time, he was actually doing Matt Hume's website.

00:21:38.000 And so he goes, hey...

00:21:42.000 Would you be interested in fighting?

00:21:44.000 Uh, sure.

00:21:46.000 I go, alright, who?

00:21:47.000 Chris Charnos.

00:21:48.000 Oh, that guy's fighting Superball, right?

00:21:50.000 He's like, yeah.

00:21:52.000 Okay.

00:21:53.000 Uh, when?

00:21:54.000 He's like in 11 days.

00:21:56.000 Okay.

00:21:57.000 What do I need?

00:21:57.000 When do I need to be there?

00:22:00.000 And I just...

00:22:00.000 I trained with an old training partner of mine, this guy Edwin Romorosa.

00:22:05.000 We used to do Kali and some Thai boxing and self-defense stuff, knife fighting, all kinds of shit, right?

00:22:10.000 But we're all neophytes at the time.

00:22:13.000 But we did the best we could.

00:22:15.000 I would run up the hill from Ballard to Finney Ridge.

00:22:18.000 I would meet him.

00:22:20.000 We would either go to the park and he would have me do stuff like...

00:22:25.000 Yeah.

00:22:45.000 He'd blindfold me and just fucking jump on me.

00:22:48.000 He'd blindfold you and jump on you?

00:22:50.000 He'd just jump on me and I'd have to figure my way out of whatever was going on.

00:22:54.000 I had to feel it.

00:22:54.000 I couldn't...

00:22:56.000 Tab A, slot B, I had to figure out what was going on and get to where I needed to be and then finish.

00:23:03.000 It's like some Pink Panther type shit.

00:23:04.000 Kind of.

00:23:05.000 Kendo would just jump out at him.

00:23:07.000 Yeah, just come out of the closet with a fucking Kendo stick and take me out.

00:23:11.000 I mean, it wasn't far from it.

00:23:12.000 But...

00:23:14.000 In the end, it was about sharpening the mental aspect of it and just being like, all right, you're going to go out there and you're going to destroy this guy no matter what.

00:23:23.000 And I choked him unconscious in two minutes.

00:23:25.000 Well, it was about sort of like making up the training as you go along, trying to figure it out, being creative.

00:23:32.000 Real MMA gloves.

00:23:33.000 We had to make them out of Harbinger bag gloves.

00:23:36.000 We had to cut the bar out of the palm and cut something else off.

00:23:39.000 And there you go.

00:23:40.000 There's an MMA glove.

00:23:41.000 And then we didn't have real trunks.

00:23:43.000 We didn't have...

00:23:44.000 We didn't have anything.

00:23:45.000 I mean, there was no MMA gear that you could just...

00:23:47.000 I went to a sporting goods store to get some of my other equipment.

00:23:51.000 And they're like, what do you need this for?

00:23:53.000 Fighting.

00:23:54.000 Huh?

00:23:56.000 What are you talking about?

00:23:57.000 And even most of the time...

00:23:58.000 So my first fight was 97. Then I would fight guys...

00:24:02.000 Whenever I could.

00:24:04.000 On mats, here, there, whatever.

00:24:05.000 It wasn't like I was dojo storming.

00:24:07.000 Back in college, I would just, hey, I see you're doing martial arts.

00:24:11.000 That's pretty cool.

00:24:12.000 You trained a while?

00:24:13.000 Yeah.

00:24:14.000 Oh, I did American Kempo.

00:24:16.000 Oh, that's great.

00:24:17.000 What do you think of the UFC? You ever watch that?

00:24:19.000 Oh, it's fucking badass, man.

00:24:21.000 I love it.

00:24:21.000 It's cool.

00:24:22.000 Awesome.

00:24:23.000 Want to fight?

00:24:24.000 What?

00:24:25.000 We'll just negotiate the rules and we'll just fight right here.

00:24:32.000 Okay.

00:24:34.000 And I just back off, you know, no gloves, no nothing.

00:24:38.000 Like, let's go.

00:24:39.000 Boom.

00:24:40.000 I remember picking up this dude from the East Coast and shooting in on a double, picking him up, skying him, boom, slamming the shit out of him.

00:24:47.000 And we had this big cargo net hung down because there was all these full courts.

00:24:53.000 There was like three or four full court basketball courts that went...

00:24:58.000 Perpendicular to this whole thing.

00:25:00.000 So you're running up and down on the other side, cargo nets to keep balls from flying over onto the matted area.

00:25:05.000 And also there was a rock climbing wall and some other little stuff.

00:25:09.000 So to keep the basketball stuff in the basketball area.

00:25:11.000 And then there was like a little room that they had built for a women's workout room.

00:25:16.000 So there was little cardio machines with little windows that they could look out across the mats and onto the basketball courts.

00:25:23.000 People would stop playing basketball and hang on the cargo net thing and just cheer and talk shit and whatever.

00:25:32.000 That's Mad Max shit.

00:25:33.000 That's Beyond Thunderdome.

00:25:34.000 Two men enter, one man leave.

00:25:36.000 It wasn't a lot of people, but I remember I skied this big old dude, slammed him, wham!

00:25:40.000 He turns over, and I throw my hooks in, I splat him face first on the mat, and I'm just 12 to 6 elbowing him in the back until he quits.

00:25:48.000 You know, just stuff like that.

00:25:49.000 And...

00:25:50.000 The best was always you'd see a guy talking to his buddies about how tough he is, hitting a heavy bag downstairs, and that would be the dude I'd always like, oh, hey, man, I see you've got some experience.

00:25:59.000 You ever fought before?

00:26:00.000 And he's like, oh, yeah, sure, whatever.

00:26:03.000 Want to fight?

00:26:04.000 Uh, okay.

00:26:06.000 Palau, just starting.

00:26:08.000 So that's how you got your training in?

00:26:10.000 Yeah, because I had that first fight, and Matt goes, that was really cool.

00:26:14.000 We want you to come back and fight again in the summer.

00:26:17.000 And at this point, I was just the dipshit who had showed up and was like, who the fuck is this guy?

00:26:23.000 And how old were you back then?

00:26:24.000 19. 19. In fact, this dude in line is talking to me, just making conversation, because I'm this new face around.

00:26:29.000 And Chardos trains at AMC, and he's already a pro, and...

00:26:34.000 He'd been known.

00:26:35.000 So I'm just this kid from Montana in their highs, even though I'm from Ballard.

00:26:40.000 And he's just asking me, oh, where do you train?

00:26:43.000 I go, well, you know, I used to train, you know, church basement with this other dude and whatever.

00:26:48.000 And I train at Jim Harrison's Bushido Kakarate in Missoula.

00:26:56.000 And I was like, oh.

00:26:58.000 Okay, well, cool.

00:27:00.000 Because everybody thinks I'm going to get murdered.

00:27:03.000 Fucking trains in church basements?

00:27:05.000 What fucking idiot is this guy?

00:27:07.000 Where'd they find this moron?

00:27:08.000 He's going to get murdered.

00:27:10.000 I can't believe, even the guy sitting next to my mom filming it is cheering for Chris.

00:27:16.000 Kick his ass back to Montana.

00:27:18.000 My mom's like, oh, come on.

00:27:20.000 It's my son right now.

00:27:20.000 He's like, oh, I know.

00:27:22.000 I'm just playing around.

00:27:24.000 Chris won't hurt him.

00:27:27.000 What was your motivation back then?

00:27:29.000 Did you think that this was going to be a career, or were you just enjoying yourself?

00:27:32.000 No, I intended fully to...

00:27:35.000 This was a point.

00:27:36.000 I told the people that I trained with back at Jim Harrison's place, which is, by the way, that is a put up or shut up.

00:27:45.000 No bullshit.

00:27:46.000 If you come in trying to be a big shot, you will get your fucking...

00:27:52.000 Teeth knocked out.

00:27:53.000 And that's not the place to try and be a tough guy.

00:27:57.000 And Jim Harrison is about as tough and as mean as they come.

00:28:00.000 He was a big help towards me developing who I am as a fighter.

00:28:05.000 He was the first U.S. light heavyweight kickboxing champion.

00:28:08.000 He was a judo champion.

00:28:09.000 He fought the bare-knuckle karate back in the day with Chuck Norris and all of them.

00:28:14.000 He was Superfoot Wallace's trainer.

00:28:16.000 This dude is...

00:28:18.000 Legit.

00:28:19.000 And so we'd get guys that come in the gym and they'd start doing all this stuff and acting pretty cocky and we'd just take turns like, hey, who's going to kick the shit out of this guy tonight?

00:28:28.000 So I'm out there training and I said to the junior instructor there, I said, well, you know, hey, my goal is by the time I'm 24, I want to be in the UFC. And the dude just kind of chuckled and he goes, by the time you're 24,

00:28:45.000 you're going to win the UFC. There you go.

00:28:49.000 Fuck, yeah.

00:28:50.000 You were correct.

00:28:51.000 So you thought there was a career in this from the very beginning.

00:28:53.000 Yeah, I watched the tapes in Japan.

00:28:54.000 I saw the U.S. I just thought, with this, I don't know what kind of a living one would make.

00:29:00.000 I imagine you could probably sustain yourself.

00:29:02.000 But I knew that I would get a chance to see the world and beat up its people.

00:29:09.000 So that was your actual approach.

00:29:11.000 From the very beginning, beating up these guys in a basketball court, you were thinking, well, this is just training towards my ultimate goal.

00:29:18.000 I need to fight.

00:29:19.000 All these guys are showing up with 250 and 0 records and all this crazy shit, and I'm like, I don't have 250. I better get to...

00:29:26.000 I'm way behind.

00:29:27.000 I better start fighting people.

00:29:30.000 What am I going to do when I fight the guy that's got at least 95 fights?

00:29:35.000 You should really write a book about all this shit.

00:29:38.000 If you really think about it, you were one of the real pioneers.

00:29:42.000 You were around just a few years after the beginning of the UFC, and you won the UFC title, what was that, like five years after you first started fighting?

00:29:52.000 From 97 to 04. Was it 04 that you won?

00:29:56.000 Yeah.

00:29:58.000 Hmm.

00:29:58.000 Wow, why did I think it was over?

00:30:00.000 Nope, sorry.

00:30:00.000 2002. Yeah, 2002. So five years.

00:30:03.000 Because I wasn't working for the UFC when you won.

00:30:05.000 Five or six years of training with three years of wrestling, two years of judo.

00:30:12.000 That's pretty crazy, man.

00:30:14.000 I mean, if you really stop and think about it, that is a really crazy path.

00:30:17.000 You really should write a book, man, because to go through that and to be around today...

00:30:20.000 I'd like to, but I worry about all the people that would get thrown under the bus.

00:30:23.000 Not on purpose, just, man, I've seen some shit.

00:30:27.000 I've heard some shit.

00:30:28.000 I've been around some shit.

00:30:29.000 I prefer to keep that on the DL. Well, that brings us to one of the things we were supposed to talk about on this show that we need to talk about.

00:30:37.000 John Wayne Parr was on the show, and John Wayne Parr, who is a great guy, I love him to death, I really enjoyed talking to him, but he had one particular story that pissed you off.

00:30:46.000 And it was a story about training with you.

00:30:49.000 It was before you fought Minotauro in the New Year show.

00:30:52.000 Yeah.

00:30:53.000 And, well, let's just play it, and we'll get you a reaction to it, because I know you really want to talk about this.

00:30:58.000 Right.

00:30:58.000 He's got all that catch-wrestling.

00:31:00.000 It's a few-hour drive.

00:31:02.000 Do you want to hear a funny story?

00:31:04.000 Sure.

00:31:04.000 Should I tell this one?

00:31:05.000 I was going to say it.

00:31:07.000 So I meet Cub Swanson, and Cub Swanson's a cool dude, and we're hanging out.

00:31:12.000 And then my first day at Eric Paulson's gym, it's Muay Thai day, okay?

00:31:18.000 And I'm the new guy.

00:31:20.000 I know nothing.

00:31:20.000 No one knows who I am.

00:31:22.000 And then Eric Poulsen's like, okay, Muay Thai guys, put your gear on guys.

00:31:26.000 Okay, so Josh Barnett, you spy this way.

00:31:30.000 He points to me.

00:31:32.000 So we start, and I'm moving around.

00:31:35.000 Inside kick, jab, and then...

00:31:37.000 Josh throws something, I'm like out, and then I'm in, boom, boom, boom, and I'm going again.

00:31:41.000 He throws a kick, whoa, air.

00:31:44.000 I like the sounds.

00:31:46.000 He's a big dude.

00:31:47.000 He's quite a big dude.

00:31:48.000 I'm in and out, in and out, fearing for my life, just tapping away.

00:31:52.000 And then we do two rounds.

00:31:54.000 After two rounds, he takes his glove off, and he throws it across the room.

00:31:58.000 He takes his shin pad off, throws it across the room.

00:32:01.000 He packs his bag, he storms out.

00:32:04.000 And then they're going to Tokyo the next day to fight on the New Year's Eve Pride tournament.

00:32:09.000 I forget who it was against.

00:32:12.000 And then about a week passes.

00:32:14.000 Josh loses his fight.

00:32:16.000 I get a phone call from Eric Paulson about three or four days later, once I get back.

00:32:21.000 I said, oh, hey, this is Eric.

00:32:23.000 How are you going?

00:32:24.000 I just want to let you know that we blame you on Josh's loss because he was...

00:32:30.000 Fine.

00:32:31.000 Right up until he spired you and then some kid that he'd never seen before owned him in the sparring and took away all his confidence.

00:32:37.000 So when he got to Japan, he was a mess.

00:32:39.000 No way.

00:32:40.000 This is a true story.

00:32:41.000 I kid you not.

00:32:42.000 Well, first of all, how ridiculous are they to take a guy like you where they don't, you know...

00:32:48.000 I was just that new guy in the gym.

00:32:50.000 It's like, oh, yeah, you spy him.

00:32:51.000 You can cut it off there.

00:32:53.000 So...

00:32:54.000 The fight that you fought in Japan for the New Year's show was the Minotauru-Noguera fight, right?

00:33:01.000 Yeah.

00:33:01.000 That was a very close fight, and you actually had a leg lock locked down.

00:33:06.000 No, no, that was the second time I fought him that year.

00:33:09.000 I had a nasty front choke on him, then he managed to just barely escape.

00:33:14.000 I picked him up and slammed him on his head.

00:33:16.000 I whacked on him a bit up top and down below.

00:33:20.000 But he pretty much stalled me out.

00:33:22.000 He tried to hold me down most of the fight.

00:33:25.000 And in the end, they gave him the decision.

00:33:27.000 In my opinion, what they wanted was a trilogy.

00:33:29.000 So I think it was a bullshit decision.

00:33:31.000 But if I don't finish a guy and that the judges make a shitty call, oh well, that's my fault still, not the judges.

00:33:37.000 But that's neither here nor there.

00:33:39.000 Right.

00:33:39.000 This story really pissed you off, so express yourself.

00:33:41.000 Well, first of all...

00:33:44.000 You could say, oh, if this guy came in, and I even made sure to go back through my mental Rolodex about this, because I'll be honest, I had a pretty vivid memory about training with John Wayne Parr, because I knew absolutely who he was when he showed up.

00:34:01.000 I know he was not unknown to all these people at the gym.

00:34:05.000 And not to mention, Eric Paulson will make sure to introduce, if somebody of notoriety came in, if you showed up right now, Joe, if people have been living in a cave, he would talk, he would say, this is Joe Rogan, he did taekwondo, he did this, and now you may know him.

00:34:19.000 He always makes sure that everybody who shows up gets their due respect and is introduced properly to everybody.

00:34:25.000 Yeah.

00:34:26.000 John Wayne Parr, I watched him fight at the Sands before he came and trained with us.

00:34:31.000 I watched him fight Muay Thai.

00:34:32.000 I'd seen him fight Muay Thai before.

00:34:33.000 I knew who his wife was, Angie Rivera.

00:34:36.000 I'd seen her fight before.

00:34:38.000 I knew all about John Wayne Parr before he'd ever gotten to our gym.

00:34:42.000 And he shows up.

00:34:43.000 And I'm going, oh fuck, that's so fucking cool.

00:34:46.000 And I made a point to come up to John and tell him, I watched you fight at the Sands.

00:34:52.000 I was there.

00:34:53.000 I've seen you fight.

00:34:53.000 I know all about you.

00:34:55.000 And I deliberately spent time training with John as much as I could.

00:35:03.000 As much as I could.

00:35:05.000 So, here's the thing.

00:35:07.000 John had a MMA fight coming up against Tony Bonello.

00:35:15.000 So, he's at our gym to try and figure out this whole MMA game.

00:35:22.000 I even put extra time into John trying to help him out, trying to teach him about defending the takedown and try to be more defensive as a grappler.

00:35:31.000 Everybody there was really kind and helpful to him, especially myself.

00:35:36.000 And I tried to spar with him as many times as possible while I was at the gym, because he is such a good fighter, but at the same time, he's a lot smaller than me.

00:35:46.000 So I'm not trying to win.

00:35:48.000 I'm just trying to learn.

00:35:50.000 I'm not trying to take 250 pounds and kick him and hurt him and bust him up and make this a competition about who's better.

00:35:58.000 If anything, I would just play, play, play, play, play.

00:36:01.000 You know, his striking is so unorthodox.

00:36:21.000 We played a lot.

00:36:25.000 But there was never any ass-kicking on my part.

00:36:29.000 I never chucked my gloves across the room because this new guy just showed up and beat me up.

00:36:34.000 It's like, that's all fucking bullshit.

00:36:36.000 Why do you think he would say that?

00:36:38.000 Maybe he's been punched in the head too many times.

00:36:40.000 Maybe he sees that as his opportunity to get some sort of fame.

00:36:43.000 I guess he's got a documentary out, which, you know, I don't know what he's lying about in that.

00:36:48.000 But clearly, this guy is delusional.

00:36:51.000 Yeah.

00:36:52.000 And even still, there's like that unwritten rule about training, right?

00:36:55.000 You don't talk about it.

00:36:56.000 And, you know, that being said, when we did spar, there was at least, there was one time where I put him on the floor by accident, just timed a right middle kick against his right hand and it just clunked him right in the right spot, down to the floor he goes.

00:37:13.000 And we laughed.

00:37:15.000 Because we thought, huh.

00:37:17.000 I go, I didn't throw that hard.

00:37:18.000 He goes, man, that was just a hellacious, that was really well placed.

00:37:22.000 And we just, what did we do?

00:37:23.000 We figured out how to repeat it.

00:37:24.000 Because we thought, huh, if one could land that kick just right, It'd be a great thing to have in one's arsenal.

00:37:32.000 Especially if you're not even trying to hurt someone, they get hurt so bad they drop down.

00:37:35.000 Well, and you know, I got a big, big heavy leg, you know, so I don't fault him for that.

00:37:40.000 It's not like we're trying to win.

00:37:42.000 How many times do you think you sparred him?

00:37:44.000 Fuck.

00:37:45.000 Six, seven, eight times, whatever.

00:37:47.000 I mean, he was there for a good bit, and then he disappeared, which I guess he took off to Thomas Denny's.

00:37:53.000 I don't know why, but...

00:37:56.000 It's not like he was having to pay to be at CSW at the time.

00:37:59.000 But when it came to MMA, he got murdered on the feet and on the ground.

00:38:05.000 And not because he's a bad striker, it's because he didn't have the rhythm yet.

00:38:11.000 The rhythm of stopping takedowns.

00:38:13.000 Being able to pay attention of the takedown distance, the clinch distance, which doesn't end.

00:38:21.000 All kinds of little things that change the way you pattern your shots, the way you would angle, the way you would footwork.

00:38:28.000 So, you know, just in a straight Thai boxing scenario, of course he's very relaxed, but with MMA, with everything that comes with it, he's not so relaxed, which is no fault of his.

00:38:39.000 Yeah, he talked about not pursuing MMA because he was such an expert in Muay Thai and he didn't like the fact that, like, when he would do jiu-jitsu or wrestling or anything, he just was so out of his element.

00:38:50.000 He didn't like being a beginner again.

00:38:52.000 What is that?

00:38:53.000 Well, you know, but that's...

00:38:55.000 That's quitting.

00:38:56.000 That's what that is.

00:38:58.000 He wasn't fucking good at Muay Thai to begin with either, I promise you.

00:39:01.000 Right, but he was by the time he started, and that's hard for people to start over.

00:39:05.000 It's like taking a guy who's...

00:39:06.000 Here's the thing.

00:39:08.000 By the time he started MMA, he was already good at one thing.

00:39:11.000 He got so used to being good at one thing, he couldn't stand to be a white belt again.

00:39:16.000 Well, then it definitely wasn't for you.

00:39:18.000 Right.

00:39:19.000 And I guess you don't like potentially learning new languages or reading new books.

00:39:25.000 That's fine.

00:39:26.000 You could stay in your little hole.

00:39:28.000 And clearly, MMA wasn't for him.

00:39:30.000 Some people, though, they get a little bit of success.

00:39:32.000 I mean, not a little bit.

00:39:33.000 Obviously, he got a large amount of success.

00:39:36.000 Which money do you think he made Thai boxing?

00:39:38.000 Very little.

00:39:39.000 Very little.

00:39:40.000 He probably thought MMA was going to be a way to get more notoriety, more money, more whatever.

00:39:46.000 And then when he realized it wasn't going to happen the way he thought it was, he quit.

00:39:50.000 Well, you see guys that have really decorated Muay Thai careers and they struggle to make it in MMA. Sure.

00:39:56.000 Cyril Diabate is a good example.

00:39:58.000 And he's a guy who's pretty successful in MMA, too.

00:40:00.000 He was pretty successful.

00:40:01.000 But really good at Muay Thai.

00:40:03.000 Yes.

00:40:03.000 You know, I mean, a world champion at Muay Thai.

00:40:05.000 And that transition is...

00:40:08.000 It ain't easy.

00:40:09.000 If it was easy, everybody would do it, right?

00:40:10.000 That's true.

00:40:12.000 But as far as kicking my ass, that man's never kicked my ass in his entire life.

00:40:17.000 That's weird.

00:40:18.000 You know what's even so weird is I was a John Wayne Parr fan.

00:40:22.000 I meet the guy at my gym and make a point to not only help him, but to train with him, to learn from him, to have that experience, to be there.

00:40:34.000 They'll be like, oh, when am I going to get a chance to train with John Wayne Parr again?

00:40:37.000 I want to have the both of you on a podcast next.

00:40:40.000 It's going to be so fucking weird.

00:40:42.000 All that could happen is that he's just going to go, well, no, it happened this way.

00:40:45.000 And I'm just like, shut the fuck up.

00:40:47.000 All right?

00:40:48.000 You know what I mean?

00:40:49.000 Knock me out right now, then.

00:40:50.000 If that's what you want to go on with.

00:40:52.000 But it's just dumb.

00:40:53.000 And then recently someone dug up the whole Hector Lombard stuff again.

00:40:57.000 I'm like, oh, why?

00:40:58.000 Why?

00:40:58.000 And I thought that was done because we have a mutual friend through the gym and he says, oh, you know, Hector, he's sorry.

00:41:04.000 He apologized for all the crap before.

00:41:06.000 And I'm like, that's cool.

00:41:07.000 You know, we never had a problem with Hector at CSW, really.

00:41:11.000 And even the night that Hector called me out at Bellator...

00:41:16.000 The day before weigh-ins, I'm, Hector, how you doing, man?

00:41:19.000 I think you're going to do really great.

00:41:21.000 Still, backing him up.

00:41:23.000 And then only to have him say, oh, I want to fight this guy.

00:41:25.000 I'm like, what the fuck, man?

00:41:27.000 He said that at the weigh-in?

00:41:28.000 When did he say that?

00:41:29.000 After he won his fight at Bellator.

00:41:32.000 And this is when he was the middleweight champion at Bellator?

00:41:34.000 Yeah.

00:41:34.000 Who do you want to fight next?

00:41:35.000 He's like, I want to fight Josh Barnett.

00:41:37.000 I'm like, what?

00:41:38.000 What do you want to fight me for?

00:41:39.000 What the fuck, dude?

00:41:40.000 Josh, you ruffling people the wrong way?

00:41:42.000 You ruffling feathers?

00:41:43.000 What are you doing, man?

00:41:44.000 You know what?

00:41:44.000 Maybe.

00:41:45.000 I will accept that I ruffle feathers.

00:41:48.000 I rub people the wrong way.

00:41:49.000 You're a feather-ruffling motherfucker from way back.

00:41:51.000 I will ruffle feathers, especially in the case that I will call things like I see it.

00:41:55.000 I don't let bullshit slide.

00:41:56.000 And I have absolutely no...

00:41:59.000 I do not suffer fools.

00:42:01.000 So if you come at me with a bunch of just ignorant, stupid, whatever, if you've built your whole life this whole construct around who you are and what you do based on a lie, based on something false, something bullshit, I'm not going to accept that and I'm not going to respect you.

00:42:16.000 If you don't have to be the best, you could be the worst.

00:42:20.000 But if you're an honest person, you're a real person, then I don't give a shit.

00:42:24.000 I'm not really impressed by people that can try to portray being something that they aren't or make themselves into something that they aren't.

00:42:31.000 I'm more interested in people who are exactly who they are.

00:42:34.000 And that's fine.

00:42:35.000 And understanding that they have weaknesses and strengths and being able to grow and be a person of integrity and being a person that is true to who they are and true to me.

00:42:44.000 So...

00:42:45.000 That will cause a lot of issues with folks.

00:42:47.000 Especially the fact that I deal in entertainment.

00:42:50.000 Whether it be fighting or acting or anything that I do.

00:42:53.000 There's a lot of false bravado.

00:42:55.000 A lot of made up...

00:43:01.000 Machismo.

00:43:01.000 Posturing.

00:43:02.000 Right.

00:43:03.000 So Hector, the first time...

00:43:04.000 So he says the reason that we had beef was because he broke my nose the first day of sparring and I hated him ever since then.

00:43:14.000 And that's not fucking true either.

00:43:16.000 The first day he ever showed up at CSW, he had come up from Team Quest.

00:43:20.000 He wasn't going to train there anymore.

00:43:22.000 And...

00:43:23.000 I think he still hates Dan Henderson.

00:43:25.000 Why does he hate Dan Henderson?

00:43:27.000 I don't know.

00:43:28.000 Whatever.

00:43:28.000 I never asked.

00:43:30.000 I just, oh, he sucks man.

00:43:32.000 He's a jerky.

00:43:33.000 Whatever.

00:43:34.000 I didn't get into it.

00:43:36.000 But the first thing he came and sparred was actually one of the best days we ever had with sparring because he got in the ring.

00:43:42.000 He wasn't trying to murder everybody.

00:43:44.000 And I fucking hit victor rolls on him and took his knee.

00:43:47.000 And he's just like, Holy shit, that's crazy.

00:43:49.000 We're all having a good time, but I'm tapping them out and taking them down.

00:43:52.000 Whatever.

00:43:53.000 But there's no animosity.

00:43:55.000 Everybody's training and training and training, and he's always amping it up now.

00:43:58.000 And then at some point, I show up at practice late, and everyone's on the floor.

00:44:02.000 Hector doesn't have a partner, so I just threw my shit on real quick.

00:44:05.000 No hand wraps, no nothing.

00:44:06.000 No one's going hard.

00:44:07.000 I'm like, I'm just going to jump in and start warming up.

00:44:09.000 All right.

00:44:10.000 Touch, touch, tap, tap.

00:44:12.000 He throws the biggest fucking punch he's got and tries to knock me out.

00:44:16.000 Starts my nose bleeding.

00:44:17.000 I'm just going, what the fuck?

00:44:19.000 So then it's on for like 20 minutes, and I put a giant egg on the side of his head and shit, and Paulson's just letting it go.

00:44:26.000 So you basically had a fight.

00:44:27.000 Yeah, we just brawled it out.

00:44:28.000 And with, you know, boxing, kickboxing.

00:44:31.000 And Paul's finally called an end to it.

00:44:33.000 That's fine.

00:44:34.000 And then, later on, at some point, he's sparring Mighty Mo, and Mighty Mo drops him.

00:44:37.000 Boink!

00:44:38.000 And Paul's like, alright, alright, alright.

00:44:40.000 So, you know, lighten it up, lighten it up.

00:44:42.000 Fuck, man, I ain't scared of him.

00:44:44.000 I ain't scared.

00:44:44.000 And Mighty Mo's like, man, fuck you.

00:44:46.000 What?

00:44:47.000 I don't need this.

00:44:48.000 I'm here to help you out.

00:44:50.000 I already got...

00:44:51.000 X amount of cars, two houses, whatever.

00:44:53.000 You know what?

00:44:54.000 I don't need this shit.

00:44:55.000 I've already made money.

00:44:57.000 You're the one who's down here trying to crawl up the ranks.

00:45:00.000 What are you going to get out of this?

00:45:02.000 And so then things started getting a little worse.

00:45:06.000 He started beating up on civilians, which is what I call people that are not pros, and And we would still spar and things like that here and there, but I always knew that with Hector, he was always going to go hard.

00:45:16.000 He never had a light.

00:45:18.000 Not because he couldn't, but he wouldn't.

00:45:20.000 And you guys, after you'd gone hard for 20 minutes, you basically fought it out for 20 minutes.

00:45:24.000 I was done with it.

00:45:25.000 I wasn't mad at him.

00:45:26.000 So you were perfectly fine with sparring him after that?

00:45:29.000 He made it clear who he was going to be in the gym.

00:45:33.000 Oh, that's fine.

00:45:34.000 I mean, one time we had a grappling tournament.

00:45:37.000 I drove him out with me so we could all hang out.

00:45:40.000 Everyone could be together.

00:45:41.000 He came out to this fight out in Palm Desert where we had some guys fighting.

00:45:46.000 He was a part of everything, part of the team.

00:45:50.000 But we knew that he was...

00:45:53.000 But we knew what to expect.

00:45:56.000 Babalu beat up on him one time in the gym.

00:45:58.000 He didn't like him at all because Hector would take liberties with people.

00:46:04.000 Babalu felt like, well, you shouldn't do that.

00:46:07.000 But then the last time we sparred, I get on top of him and I'm working him over pretty good, but I'm not trying to kill the guy.

00:46:17.000 And he freaks out and he's like...

00:46:19.000 I'm good.

00:46:20.000 I'm good.

00:46:20.000 You know, I'm tired, man.

00:46:21.000 It's like, what do you mean you're tired?

00:46:23.000 Every day you go hard and try to kill people.

00:46:26.000 And the one day, you don't want to go hard.

00:46:28.000 You don't say anything, but everybody just expects that's what it's going to be.

00:46:31.000 Right.

00:46:32.000 And so he says, oh, and this one day I got on top of him and beat him near within an inch of his life.

00:46:36.000 And I'm like, I didn't do that.

00:46:37.000 I know I didn't do that.

00:46:38.000 Yeah, I did.

00:46:39.000 I pinned him and, you know, I was leathering him, but not hurting the guy.

00:46:44.000 And, you know, he thought he was going to die or something.

00:46:46.000 I'm like, I'm not going to I'm not going to do that to you.

00:46:48.000 It's just training.

00:46:50.000 And now it's like this thing again.

00:46:53.000 It's like, you know, you didn't beat my ass in the gym.

00:46:56.000 You're an incredible fighter.

00:46:58.000 In fact, you're a better fighter than you even understand.

00:47:00.000 Hector Lombard, if his head was right, would be untouchable.

00:47:06.000 He is one of the most gifted, strong, fast...

00:47:10.000 Throw aside the fact that he just got popped for steroids.

00:47:14.000 Even with it...

00:47:17.000 You could find his fucking peers and give them all the same shit or different shit.

00:47:24.000 Doesn't matter.

00:47:25.000 They're not going to move, have the strength and the speed like Hector is.

00:47:29.000 Hector's unreal.

00:47:31.000 Hector should be undefeated.

00:47:32.000 But Hector's a head case.

00:47:33.000 And that's why he'll never fully ascend to the top of the throne.

00:47:38.000 Or really keep it if he can get there.

00:47:41.000 Because he doesn't understand what it is that he has and how to use it best.

00:47:46.000 But he is amazing.

00:47:47.000 Don't get me wrong.

00:47:48.000 That dude?

00:47:49.000 Gnarly.

00:47:50.000 Yeah, he's a super athlete.

00:47:51.000 There's no doubt about that.

00:47:52.000 I've never seen anybody ragdoll Jake Shields like that.

00:47:54.000 He could do that to anybody in his weight division.

00:48:01.000 Could somebody have a counter for something?

00:48:03.000 Yeah, I'm not saying he's invincible, but I'm saying that what he possesses in athleticism and skill sets.

00:48:11.000 He's actually a good leg locker, too.

00:48:13.000 You won't see him necessarily go for it, but he is a good leg locker.

00:48:16.000 Yeah, there's a video of him in a grappling tournament.

00:48:19.000 Oh, he breaks that guy's leg, yeah.

00:48:20.000 It's loud, too.

00:48:21.000 Carrot.

00:48:22.000 He's got even more skills than he displays.

00:48:25.000 But, again, you know, you've got to be able to put it together.

00:48:28.000 But isn't that part of the beauty of MMA, is that it is this weird thing that you can't just be a super athlete, because there's other super athletes, too.

00:48:37.000 You can't just be a technical guy, because there's other guys that are technical, too.

00:48:43.000 There's so many variables.

00:48:44.000 That's true.

00:48:45.000 And you could be the best athlete out there.

00:48:48.000 I know I fought people that were bigger and stronger than me and faster, and I've beaten them before.

00:48:53.000 And it wasn't because I went and I fought their speed with my speed or used my strength against their strength.

00:48:59.000 It was I found a way to bypass those things or to put them in such a way that they wouldn't even apply...

00:49:06.000 Strength or speed where they should.

00:49:09.000 They don't even understand that it's still available to them.

00:49:12.000 It's just that they don't understand the position.

00:49:15.000 They don't understand what's going on.

00:49:16.000 They don't even realize What opportunities are there for them?

00:49:20.000 Well, isn't it almost impossible, unless you spend decades in martial arts, it's almost impossible to have all the skills and all the knowledge at your disposal?

00:49:29.000 Of course.

00:49:29.000 It's such a deep pool of information to draw from.

00:49:32.000 It is.

00:49:33.000 But, you know, if you want to have the biggest toolbox out there, then you have to spend the time to do it.

00:49:42.000 When the coaches are done coaching you, and you've left practice, how do you spend your time?

00:49:48.000 Are you watching video?

00:49:49.000 Not just on your opponent, but just watching video on things for fun or to take a look at something and break it down and make it yours in a very highly technical aspect?

00:50:00.000 Or are you shadowboxing to make sure to work on keeping that jab inside?

00:50:05.000 Or are you thinking about the things that you've been working on?

00:50:08.000 Are you thinking about mentally drilling, like Gable says?

00:50:11.000 Are you sitting there going through shot after shot after shot, set up after set up after set up in your head?

00:50:18.000 Are you having a garbage truck come through in the signal right now?

00:50:24.000 Do they have Wi-Fi in garbage trucks right now?

00:50:27.000 Is that what's popping in the hood?

00:50:29.000 Most people can't even hear that.

00:50:30.000 They're up there like, I got a fucking hot spot, motherfucker.

00:50:33.000 Bring me your trash and your recyclables and check your email.

00:50:37.000 If you were going to start someone...

00:50:39.000 That's where spam goes.

00:50:40.000 I know you train with a bunch of young fighters now.

00:50:44.000 You train a bunch of young fighters right now.

00:50:45.000 Jessamyn Duke, Marina Shafir, Victor Henry, Shohei Yamamoto, Colleen Schneider, Shayna.

00:50:53.000 And if you wanted to start, say if you were going to start from scratch, if you were going to develop a program and take athletes that had never fought before, never had any martial arts experience whatsoever, and turn them into professional mixed martial arts fighters, if you had a curriculum,

00:51:10.000 as it were, how would you start that off?

00:51:13.000 First things first.

00:51:15.000 What do you possess up top?

00:51:16.000 Your brain.

00:51:17.000 Exactly.

00:51:18.000 If you don't have the type of mind that can be that dedicated, that obsessive, that can be easy going and you need to be easy going and be completely unmovable when you need to be.

00:51:30.000 That unshaking and unfettered confidence.

00:51:33.000 And how would you develop that in a person?

00:51:36.000 Is that something you either have or you don't have or is it something that you could develop?

00:51:39.000 You can develop it, but I truly believe that for the most part it's something that you are born with, the ability to do.

00:51:46.000 You give them adversity right off the bat.

00:51:49.000 You give them struggles.

00:51:50.000 You give them things that will confuse them on purpose.

00:51:54.000 And you see how do they deal with that.

00:51:57.000 Do they quit?

00:51:58.000 Do they fold it in?

00:51:59.000 Do they throw a fit about it?

00:52:00.000 Do they throw a temper tantrum?

00:52:04.000 Because what you have to do to get to the end goal is really irrelevant.

00:52:09.000 Getting to the end goal is what's important.

00:52:11.000 So if you had to fucking do coffee runs for two weeks in a row, if that was all...

00:52:20.000 I mean, come on, what is that?

00:52:21.000 In the length of what your career would be, in the length of what your training would be...

00:52:25.000 Coffee runs, what do you mean?

00:52:26.000 Like someone said, hey, Josh wants you to go get him coffee.

00:52:29.000 How the fuck is that going to help anybody?

00:52:31.000 I just made it up because I've been drinking coffee.

00:52:34.000 But if that was it, just to see them be like, I want to go train, I want to...

00:52:39.000 See what they do.

00:52:40.000 Well, don't you think, though, in that case, you're dealing with people like, okay, some people will come to the table with a certain amount of mental toughness, a certain amount of discipline, a certain amount of the ability to overcome adversity, and some people won't.

00:52:53.000 And you're only going to take the ones that will.

00:52:55.000 Is it possible to take someone who's almost essentially a blank slate athletically and turn them into someone who could understand what's going on in their mind?

00:53:07.000 Do you believe in mental training?

00:53:09.000 Yes.

00:53:09.000 It is possible.

00:53:11.000 But again, they would have to exhibit those characteristics, not through an athletic window per se, but just through a determination standpoint.

00:53:19.000 Just through...

00:53:21.000 You know, it's like the reason why pro wrestling gyms back in the day, or even currently, in Japan especially, and the Lions then, and they had tryouts.

00:53:33.000 I had to go through a tryout.

00:53:34.000 I beat two pro fighters my first two fights, and I still had to go through a tryout.

00:53:42.000 I still had sparring.

00:53:44.000 I had to have a meeting with the coaches before I could join AMC's fight team.

00:53:49.000 Because just winning, just even being a good fighter wasn't enough.

00:53:53.000 They needed to see, what is this guy made of?

00:53:55.000 Is he coachable?

00:53:57.000 Does he have the mental capacity to be in this environment and excel?

00:54:06.000 Can he be one of those people that what we instill in him will stick?

00:54:11.000 Well, that was what I was kind of getting to.

00:54:13.000 Is there a way you could develop a mental curriculum?

00:54:16.000 Because it seems like that is one of the biggest parts of competing, one of the biggest parts of succeeding, and of not tripping over your own dick, which a lot of people do in all sorts of things in life.

00:54:27.000 You see it with stand-up comedians, you see it with musicians, you see it with authors.

00:54:32.000 There's people that just don't fucking do the work, or they fuck up, or they don't follow through, or they take too much time off, or what, you know...

00:54:40.000 The mental aspect of success, the idea of finding a goal, figuring out how to get to that goal, and then avoiding anything that trips you up along the way.

00:54:50.000 Yeah.

00:54:51.000 I don't know about building a curriculum that's one size fits all, because everybody's a little different.

00:54:57.000 But of the...

00:54:59.000 Difficulties that you named.

00:55:03.000 Failing or, you know, not doing the work.

00:55:06.000 Distractions.

00:55:07.000 Some of these...

00:55:07.000 Pussy.

00:55:08.000 Yeah.

00:55:09.000 Pussy.

00:55:10.000 Pussy.

00:55:10.000 That's a big one.

00:55:11.000 But sometimes it is.

00:55:13.000 Sometimes it's very tight and small.

00:55:15.000 Sometimes you just never know where you're getting.

00:55:16.000 That's not what I meant.

00:55:16.000 I meant like what Mickey said in Rocky.

00:55:19.000 Yeah.

00:55:19.000 Well, here's the thing.

00:55:23.000 Some of those things are okay.

00:55:25.000 Failing is okay.

00:55:27.000 As long as you learn from it.

00:55:29.000 It's one of the best motivators ever.

00:55:31.000 What's not okay is distractions, not doing the work.

00:55:35.000 There's a difference between not being successful Because it just isn't learned yet.

00:55:43.000 You haven't developed the capability yet.

00:55:46.000 Maybe you're just not quite strong enough, quite fast.

00:55:48.000 Things like that.

00:55:49.000 Things that in time can be learned and understood and grown from.

00:55:56.000 And then there's shitting the bed by not putting the work in, by having the wrong attitude, by showing up trying to win all the time, letting your ego get in the way, things like that.

00:56:07.000 And that's what you want as a coach.

00:56:09.000 Okay, not even just as a coach.

00:56:11.000 Let's take the coaching aspect out of it because this applies to life.

00:56:15.000 As someone that's going to have somebody else apprentice under them.

00:56:18.000 As somebody that has the ability to instill knowledge and understanding towards something that somebody else wants to work towards that person Who needs to learn this stuff has to have the right head.

00:56:33.000 My old coach, Billy Robinson, said you need to learn how to learn.

00:56:36.000 And that's a fucking fact.

00:56:38.000 And so one of the mentor's jobs is to try and help guide this person to teach them how to learn.

00:56:45.000 Because once they learn, it's the stupid old analogy of give a man a fish, he'll eat today.

00:56:50.000 Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime.

00:56:52.000 It is fucking that simple when broken down to its smallest pieces.

00:56:57.000 You have to learn how to fish.

00:56:59.000 And you learn how to fish, it doesn't matter if I tell you, okay, well I want you to use your jab to score on this guy's chin.

00:57:06.000 You will figure out the way you need to use your jab to score on that guy's chin.

00:57:11.000 You will make the jab that you possessed the most effective jab you have ever known.

00:57:18.000 Because you understand.

00:57:20.000 You know how to fish.

00:57:22.000 You're not sitting there getting pissed off because you don't like the fact that you didn't hit him every time.

00:57:27.000 You're focusing on the wrong thing.

00:57:30.000 You're too busy trying to win instead of trying to learn.

00:57:33.000 Once you learn, you'll win.

00:57:35.000 If you try to win all the time, you're going to fail eventually.

00:57:38.000 That's a big problem in Jiu Jitsu.

00:57:40.000 Marcelo Garcia talks about that a lot.

00:57:42.000 He says that you have to open yourself up in training and you can't worry about being tapped.

00:57:47.000 Nope.

00:57:47.000 Being tapped is a part of the game.

00:57:49.000 Get tapped and just move on.

00:57:51.000 Don't worry about it.

00:57:52.000 That's right.

00:57:52.000 What's most important is that you open up your game and instead of being super defensive and never taking any Always trying to win.

00:57:59.000 You don't learn.

00:58:00.000 Because you don't get tapped, but you don't learn jack shit.

00:58:02.000 And there's always those guys.

00:58:04.000 Every gym has that guy that's almost impossible to tap, but doesn't fucking tap anybody.

00:58:08.000 Right.

00:58:09.000 That's true.

00:58:09.000 And that's another thing that as a mentor, as a coach, or whatever you want to call it...

00:58:17.000 That you have to look for is not the person...

00:58:19.000 There's always the person that's just fresh off the boat.

00:58:22.000 You know, they just fell off the turnip truck, whatever.

00:58:24.000 Just getting into it.

00:58:25.000 Turnip trucks?

00:58:26.000 Turnip trucks.

00:58:27.000 That's that old one.

00:58:28.000 That's old-schooly.

00:58:29.000 Well, no, I mean, there's turnip trucks that go through Los Feliz all the time.

00:58:33.000 Really?

00:58:33.000 Oh, they're all about turnips over there.

00:58:34.000 How many people are buying turnips?

00:58:35.000 Turnip trucks and beet trucks.

00:58:37.000 Is there one turnip truck for the whole entire state of California?

00:58:40.000 Well, it's organic.

00:58:41.000 It is organic.

00:58:42.000 Probably two turnip trucks.

00:58:43.000 It's gluten-free.

00:58:44.000 Gluten-free turnips?

00:58:45.000 Yeah.

00:58:46.000 I'm not worried about gluten anymore.

00:58:48.000 No?

00:58:48.000 Me neither.

00:58:49.000 Back on board.

00:58:50.000 Sugar.

00:58:50.000 You know, yeah.

00:58:51.000 Sugar is worse than gluten.

00:58:52.000 But that's what the gluten issue is.

00:58:54.000 It's not a...

00:58:55.000 Like, the real issue, I believe, with gluten is that gluten is all sugar.

00:59:01.000 Like, when you're...

00:59:01.000 Not gluten, but gluten-containing products.

00:59:04.000 If you have a lot of bread, if you have a lot of pasta...

00:59:06.000 There's a lot of sugar in it.

00:59:06.000 The real issue is sugar.

00:59:07.000 High glycemic carbs.

00:59:08.000 That's the real issue.

00:59:09.000 It seems to be, and I've talked to nutritionists about it, and they're like, well, some people are more sensitive, and some people aren't.

00:59:14.000 The people that are most sensitive, it's usually because their patchouli is interacting with...

00:59:19.000 Ah.

00:59:20.000 Their karma.

00:59:21.000 Their chakras.

00:59:22.000 It's a...

00:59:23.000 You know, crystals and gluten, they are the ones where the intolerance is within that combination, not the person themselves.

00:59:30.000 I get it.

00:59:31.000 Yeah, the body is okay with gluten, but if you have crystals on at the same time, depending on what harmonies they're vibrating at, that gluten could be an issue.

00:59:38.000 Harmonies, very important.

00:59:40.000 I knew a girl named Harmony.

00:59:42.000 Boy, was she annoying.

00:59:43.000 Oh my goodness.

00:59:45.000 What color was her aura?

00:59:46.000 It was kind of a purple-ish.

00:59:48.000 But that whole thing, that gluten thing, there's something to it.

00:59:52.000 You're not really supposed to be eating bread all the time.

00:59:54.000 You're not really supposed to be eating pasta all the time.

00:59:57.000 Obviously, some people have a harder time processing all kinds of different foods.

01:00:01.000 Everybody's diet's going to be different to the person.

01:00:03.000 But the one thing that will help everybody, everybody listening to this, if you hear all this gluten frat, cut the fucking sugar out.

01:00:10.000 Just cut it way back.

01:00:13.000 Eat fruit.

01:00:13.000 If you want some sugar, have a peach.

01:00:15.000 Have a pear.

01:00:16.000 It'll make a giant difference.

01:00:18.000 We're totally getting off top.

01:00:19.000 We're digressing.

01:00:20.000 But we're not, because we're talking about learning.

01:00:21.000 Right.

01:00:22.000 Learning, true.

01:00:22.000 And one of the things even about the whole concept of this gluten stuff, right?

01:00:26.000 And bread and pasta.

01:00:27.000 How refined is the shit you're eating, too?

01:00:29.000 Like, if you had bread that was almost as least refined as possible...

01:00:33.000 I mean, it's going to be refined to some degree because you made it into fucking bread.

01:00:36.000 But the least refined as possible...

01:00:38.000 Like sprouted grains.

01:00:39.000 ...is way different from cheeseball, white bread...

01:00:43.000 Wonder bread type shit.

01:00:44.000 It's all sugar.

01:00:45.000 Yeah.

01:00:46.000 I'm cheeseball white bread, and I've been known to be unhealthy to people.

01:00:49.000 You're a little cheesy, but it's amusing.

01:00:51.000 Yeah.

01:00:53.000 I love sprouted bread.

01:00:54.000 I like Ezekiel bread and stuff like that.

01:00:56.000 My body doesn't seem to react to that bad at all.

01:00:59.000 Well, it does tend to burn a little bit on initial touch for me, but that's because I'm just so unholy and satanic.

01:01:06.000 That's the problem.

01:01:07.000 Oh, the Ezekiel bread.

01:01:08.000 Yeah, no, it just starts glowing hot.

01:01:10.000 I didn't know you were unholy and satanic.

01:01:13.000 Yeah, all of the above.

01:01:14.000 Wow.

01:01:15.000 How long have you been unholy?

01:01:16.000 I think since the day I was born.

01:01:18.000 Are you born on a bad sign?

01:01:21.000 I've been down since I began to crawl.

01:01:25.000 On the night I was born, I heard the moon turn a fire red.

01:01:29.000 So you get these new guys with their sprouted grain bread and their beets.

01:01:34.000 And you get them to a certain point, right?

01:01:37.000 And then here's the real trouble.

01:01:39.000 They experience some success.

01:01:41.000 They get to some point of understanding and they feel like they know what their game is and they know where they can win.

01:01:48.000 Getting that motherfucker out of that hole, out of that shell, that's hard.

01:01:53.000 And that's unfortunately where a lot of times you just got to turn to a guy and be like, alright, I'm done with you.

01:01:57.000 That's it.

01:01:57.000 You have set your own limitation at this point.

01:02:00.000 You have created your own roadblocks and you don't even understand it.

01:02:04.000 Sort of like what you were talking about with John Wayne Parr.

01:02:06.000 Like John Wayne Parr not wanting to learn how to grapple because he was so good at Muay Thai.

01:02:11.000 He'd already crossed the gulf and become an expert and didn't want to become a beginner again.

01:02:15.000 Exactly.

01:02:15.000 John Wayne Parr decided he was going to be a failure in terms of grappling and MMA. He decided that.

01:02:21.000 It wasn't a matter of whether he could be successful or he could be mildly successful, greatly successful.

01:02:28.000 Who knows?

01:02:29.000 But he decided that he was going to not be good.

01:02:32.000 I had this conversation.

01:02:34.000 I had this conversation with a guy once about this guy who's an MMA fighter.

01:02:37.000 I don't know if to name his name, but he's a really good kickboxer who got into MMA and kept getting tapped out.

01:02:42.000 And this guy said, well, he just doesn't have any talent for jujitsu.

01:02:45.000 And I said, that's crazy.

01:02:47.000 I go, it's not that he doesn't have any talent for jujitsu.

01:02:49.000 I go, I'll tell you exactly what happens because I know those guys.

01:02:51.000 They are so good at kickboxing, they don't want to do jiu-jitsu.

01:02:55.000 Because if they do jiu-jitsu or submission wrestling or whatever the fuck it is, they're going to get tapped out.

01:02:59.000 And they don't like getting tapped out.

01:03:00.000 So they spend as little time doing that as possible and as much time hitting the pads, hitting the bag, working on their strengths, not working on their weaknesses.

01:03:07.000 No one likes to feel like they're failing.

01:03:10.000 It's a hard thing for people to do, to go back to sucking again in some way.

01:03:15.000 And I just started training Kyokushin Karate in LA. One of my students, Shohei Yamamoto, is a junior world champion Kyokushin.

01:03:27.000 He's taken third and fourth in the weight category world championships.

01:03:32.000 He is also the youngest guy.

01:03:47.000 Wow.

01:03:51.000 Fucking kid.

01:03:54.000 I know karate has a lot to offer.

01:03:56.000 I know all martial arts have something to offer.

01:03:58.000 And I've always thought that Kyokushin was a badass art and would be fun to do.

01:04:02.000 And so what I do, I show up.

01:04:04.000 Guess what?

01:04:04.000 I got a white belt.

01:04:05.000 I had to go buy a karate gi.

01:04:07.000 I have to sit there and sit in the back of the line with everybody else and be nobody.

01:04:11.000 And that's okay.

01:04:12.000 Because...

01:04:13.000 People go, I don't understand.

01:04:15.000 How come you're here with a white belt, training karate, doing forms?

01:04:21.000 Because I like being a white belt.

01:04:23.000 I like learning.

01:04:24.000 And in a way, it's kind of like my yoga because I can throw a sidekick, but if you make me do sidekick from that with the heels, it's just a different way of doing it.

01:04:33.000 I don't know these forms.

01:04:34.000 I don't know...

01:04:35.000 Some of these positions to do these sort of things.

01:04:38.000 So it makes my body stretch and adapt.

01:04:40.000 And all I'm doing is getting better, learning more.

01:04:42.000 It doesn't mean that I have to go out there and sanchin with my knees in and whatever and give somebody a karate chop to the neck.

01:04:49.000 You're just learning new movements.

01:04:50.000 Yes.

01:04:51.000 It's always good to learn new movements.

01:04:52.000 You were here once and you were saying that after you left here, you were going to go train Savat.

01:04:56.000 Yep.

01:04:56.000 Yeah, I've trained Savat for about a couple years, too.

01:04:59.000 Well, I've never done any Savat training.

01:05:01.000 You would love it.

01:05:02.000 Would I love it?

01:05:02.000 Okay, here's the simplest way I can describe Savat.

01:05:07.000 Think of Savat as like the Western boxing equivalent of kickboxing.

01:05:13.000 You're more Floyd Mayweather than you are...

01:05:16.000 You know, Mike Zambidis.

01:05:18.000 Hitting and getting hit.

01:05:20.000 The idea of Savat is to touch and not get touched.

01:05:22.000 Lots of footwork, using your lead, leg, lead, hand.

01:05:27.000 Tons of footwork.

01:05:28.000 So just not a lot of emphasis on power?

01:05:30.000 No, I mean, you develop power and you have your kill shot opportunities, but really it's about being scoring, off-balancing, angling.

01:05:39.000 There's a great fight.

01:05:40.000 Raymond Deckers versus Panacchio.

01:05:42.000 This Italian Savat guy.

01:05:45.000 It's a good fight?

01:05:46.000 Yeah, a fight with low kicks.

01:05:47.000 Pull that shit up, Jamie.

01:05:48.000 Jesus Christ.

01:05:48.000 And Panacchio beats Deckers.

01:05:49.000 What are we waiting for?

01:05:50.000 Get the fuck out of here.

01:05:51.000 And you're watching it.

01:05:52.000 Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

01:05:53.000 This dude beat Ramon Deckers?

01:05:54.000 A savant guy beat Ramon Deckers?

01:05:56.000 Yep.

01:05:57.000 How old was Deckers like five?

01:05:59.000 No, he was...

01:06:00.000 A little kid?

01:06:01.000 No, he was at least seven and a half.

01:06:04.000 I think John Wayne Parr had just beat him up really bad in practice and his confidence was shot.

01:06:11.000 So, uh, Pinocchio beats Deckers, but how he does it is by scoring more, by being elusive, and you watch the two fighters, and you can see it.

01:06:19.000 Absolute difference.

01:06:20.000 Oh, here we go.

01:06:20.000 Look at this.

01:06:21.000 Pinocchio's a real boy.

01:06:23.000 It's Pinocchio, bro.

01:06:24.000 It's not Pinocchio.

01:06:26.000 You don't even know.

01:06:26.000 You watch Deckers, and Deckers is full of power.

01:06:30.000 Tons of power.

01:06:31.000 And when he kicks, you can see this just bone-shattering type stuff.

01:06:35.000 What year was this?

01:06:36.000 Uh, early 90s?

01:06:39.000 So this is why Ramon was still in his prime.

01:06:41.000 Oh yeah, Ramon was still knocking out ties over in Thailand.

01:06:44.000 But the thing is, Pinocchio is almost never there to get hit.

01:06:47.000 The other thing is, when he's taking these shots, he slides and moves with them.

01:06:50.000 He always takes the power out of it.

01:06:52.000 And there's quite a few times he kicks Decker's legs out from underneath him while he's trying to wind up on him.

01:06:58.000 Really?

01:06:59.000 And tags him with a lot of shots, up top with the hands.

01:07:03.000 This is very interesting.

01:07:04.000 And it's not that Deckers is a worse fighter than Panacchio.

01:07:08.000 Don't turn it into that kind of thing, listeners.

01:07:11.000 It's about style right here.

01:07:13.000 This is what it came down to.

01:07:14.000 It was a guy using a different tactic against...

01:07:17.000 He's not going to match power with this dude.

01:07:19.000 Who could?

01:07:20.000 Raymond Deckers was...

01:07:22.000 Just a destroyer.

01:07:23.000 Too much power.

01:07:25.000 Kicked in the dick right there.

01:07:27.000 Now, they're wearing those shoes.

01:07:29.000 Why are they wearing the kickboxing shoes?

01:07:31.000 Some sort of fucking, whatever, European League's thing about, you know what I mean?

01:07:36.000 This is back in the day when kickboxing was different everywhere you went.

01:07:38.000 And this is kickboxing.

01:07:40.000 There's no clinch, there's no elbows, no knees.

01:07:42.000 No clinch, no elbows, no knees.

01:07:43.000 What do you think about that?

01:07:44.000 Like, the glory rules as opposed to full Muay Thai.

01:07:49.000 Muay Thai has a tendency to get boring as shit when they get in the clinch, and they're just throwing side knee after side knee, and no one's really landing anything, and they're hanging on each other.

01:07:57.000 I understand why they want people to be at that mid-range or long-range just tagging each other, because it looks more exciting to the casual fans.

01:08:09.000 I kind of get it from that perspective, but I don't like it as far as a...

01:08:15.000 Well, he just axe kicked in my face.

01:08:16.000 Do you see that?

01:08:16.000 No, yeah.

01:08:16.000 Lead leg hook kick and then evaded his return low kick at the same time.

01:08:20.000 It was barely...

01:08:21.000 It was more like an axe kick.

01:08:23.000 It looked like a slap, like a foot slap.

01:08:25.000 Inside low, high again.

01:08:27.000 He's just moving a lot.

01:08:28.000 Constantly.

01:08:29.000 And look, he's spinning off of his kick.

01:08:31.000 Sliding away as he's kicking, yeah.

01:08:33.000 Panacchio also beat...

01:08:34.000 Or...

01:08:36.000 Yoan Vos fought in some matches too and lost.

01:08:41.000 Wow.

01:08:42.000 So, I mean, it's just...

01:08:44.000 Yeah, hook kick to the face.

01:08:46.000 I love the distancing, the speed.

01:08:49.000 You know, one of the things I like to use, if at all possible, and teach to people is that, you know what, how much do you think your leg weighs?

01:08:57.000 Oh, like 30, 40 pounds.

01:08:59.000 If you just got it up there as fast and as quick and to the point as possible, if you score as clean as possible and as quick...

01:09:06.000 I don't need to throw hard.

01:09:08.000 I mean, force is mass times velocity squared.

01:09:12.000 So let's work on the velocity squared and not trying to generate more strength into that movement, but just speed.

01:09:22.000 Right, so more Kyokushin style than Muay Thai style.

01:09:26.000 Well, Kyokushin has a tendency to try to really...

01:09:29.000 You know, kick the baseball bats apart, too, at times.

01:09:32.000 But with Savat, I mean, if you can even watch some of the old American kickboxing stuff back in the day, and those guys were so adept at going from foot to hand to hand to foot and foot to hand.

01:09:41.000 Obviously, it was tailored to the game.

01:09:43.000 But if you thought, you know, just watch Guy Mezger, what's his, Arona.

01:09:49.000 They're out there, and there's just a nice little kick, lead leg, high kick, and just whack, and all of a sudden, Arona's on roller skates.

01:09:55.000 And it didn't even look like much.

01:09:57.000 Yeah, you're seeing that sometimes today.

01:10:00.000 You're seeing more of a karate style, like Machida is a perfect example.

01:10:04.000 There's no wind-up, there's no step before he throws the back round kick.

01:10:08.000 He just throws it right from there.

01:10:09.000 Pettis does that as well.

01:10:11.000 Yeah.

01:10:11.000 You're seeing a lot of guys that are doing that.

01:10:12.000 Front kicks taking people out as if that was never a legit technique, you know what I mean?

01:10:16.000 And there's a bazillion ways to throw front kicks.

01:10:18.000 You can throw a Thai style push kick.

01:10:19.000 You can throw the Taekwondo one where you, like Victor Webster has one of the nastiest push kicks ever.

01:10:25.000 And he'll fucking...

01:10:26.000 He's out here and he steps in.

01:10:28.000 He rides into it.

01:10:29.000 And then he hits you right in the hip and makes you sit on the floor.

01:10:33.000 It's like, fuck, dude.

01:10:34.000 That sucks.

01:10:35.000 And he just stomps right through your hip.

01:10:37.000 And then you've got karate style.

01:10:39.000 We pick it up and fold it and then punt, as Jim Harrison would say, with the ball of the foot.

01:10:43.000 And you get him right in the chin, the solar plexus, diaphragm area.

01:10:48.000 You could turn it over like Savat likes to do.

01:10:50.000 Or even Kyokshin has it, too.

01:10:52.000 That's...

01:10:55.000 Kikuno's kick, the Mikazuki-geri, and punt it right into the liver.

01:10:59.000 And it's, you know, ball of the foot.

01:11:01.000 How much surface area is that?

01:11:02.000 It's just the end of the hammer.

01:11:04.000 The head of the hammer hitting right into the point.

01:11:06.000 Yeah, there was a lot of old-school Taekwondo guys that would throw round kicks, but they would throw it and land the ball of the foot like a front kick.

01:11:13.000 Sure.

01:11:13.000 That was a big thing they used to do back in the day.

01:11:16.000 Eric Paulson always holds this camp every year.

01:11:20.000 It's a big, full-on, there will be multiple instructors teaching all this stuff, and all these people come from all over his affiliate gyms, and they pile into our gym during our training time.

01:11:28.000 So he just integrates everyone together.

01:11:30.000 And I always just tell Paulson, I go, don't stick the newbie fucking goofballs in there with me.

01:11:35.000 If I've got a fight coming up and these dudes are in here, they're going to get wrecked.

01:11:38.000 This is not my job to help this dude have a good time at camp.

01:11:42.000 I'm getting ready.

01:11:43.000 Please just don't do it.

01:11:44.000 Right.

01:11:44.000 No, no, you can just take it easy.

01:11:46.000 I'm like, no, they're not going to go easy on me, for one, because I'm me.

01:11:49.000 And they want to, either they're excited, scared, or want to prove something.

01:11:53.000 So I don't want it.

01:11:55.000 I don't even want to deal with it.

01:11:56.000 But if I have to, I'm burying them.

01:11:59.000 So that's just the way it is.

01:12:00.000 So anyways, we're in there, we're kickboxing with this kid, and fuck, he turns it up.

01:12:04.000 I'm like, goddammit.

01:12:05.000 So what do I do?

01:12:06.000 I step up, throw a left high kick off the lead leg, but I turn it over and I hit with the ball of the foot.

01:12:11.000 I just stabbed him right in the jaw with it.

01:12:14.000 He stuns, puts his hand up, quits for the whole day.

01:12:18.000 He's done.

01:12:19.000 I'm done.

01:12:21.000 Forget it.

01:12:22.000 That's probably a good idea, isn't it?

01:12:24.000 Probably was a good idea.

01:12:25.000 Probably got a concussion.

01:12:27.000 Whenever you're stunned, whenever you're like...

01:12:29.000 That's my problem with tournaments.

01:12:31.000 Like, especially those kickboxing tournaments they're doing.

01:12:34.000 A lot of these guys, they're getting essentially knocked out in their first fight.

01:12:37.000 They recover.

01:12:37.000 You know, they get dropped or stunned or fucked up.

01:12:41.000 And then they have, like, you know, 20, 30 minutes for everything to cool down and really hurt.

01:12:45.000 And then they get back in there and do it again.

01:12:47.000 Yeah, I hear you.

01:12:48.000 And I was just having this conversation with somebody the other day about...

01:12:52.000 I was with a referee, actually.

01:12:54.000 And I go, you know...

01:12:56.000 We need tournaments back in MMA. You think so?

01:12:58.000 And they go, well, we can run tournaments.

01:13:00.000 I go, no.

01:13:01.000 I know the fucking stupid ruling where they say, oh, as long as you don't exceed a five-minute round in a night.

01:13:07.000 If I'm fighting pro boxing, I'm out there for 36 minutes.

01:13:12.000 You're telling me that an MMA fighter can't go 36 minutes?

01:13:15.000 If you gave me 36 minutes, then you could go two fives and three fives in a final.

01:13:21.000 And he's like, well, there's guys that can barely get through one five now.

01:13:24.000 I go, well, fuck, good.

01:13:26.000 Hopefully they get the shit kicked out of them and they fucking figure out either A, how to be able to go past a five, or B, this ain't the sport for you.

01:13:33.000 I mean, we're not supposed to make it.

01:13:35.000 So when you're a professional, everybody doesn't need to be able to compete.

01:13:38.000 When you're an amateur, I have some understanding everyone should be able to get in the ring with a modest amount of training to go out there and do it, but not pros.

01:13:47.000 Why do you think that they should bring back tournaments?

01:13:49.000 Every combat sport in the world has tournaments.

01:13:53.000 Kumite.

01:13:54.000 Everything.

01:13:54.000 Hmm.

01:13:55.000 And we love it.

01:13:56.000 We love the shit out of tournaments.

01:13:58.000 Japan loves everything fighting and going to tournaments so much they'll have a TV show and it's battle and there's a piece of celery versus a yam.

01:14:07.000 I don't even know how you compare those two or how you make them fight.

01:14:11.000 They didn't even give them little knives or anything.

01:14:13.000 But for a shield and a trident...

01:14:16.000 A lot of pro fighters don't want to do tournaments because they feel like, say if there's a four-man tournament, you have a fight in the first round, and you win in ten seconds by a knockout, and then they go two rounds, and there's a draw, so they go to a third round,

01:14:31.000 and it's brutal, they're all banged the fuck up, and then they have to fight you in the finals, and you went through ten seconds of fighting, and they got the fuck beat out of them, and they're all banged up.

01:14:42.000 It's not fair.

01:14:43.000 They should've been a better fighter, I guess.

01:14:44.000 Is that really what it is?

01:14:45.000 What if the draw is?

01:14:46.000 What if you got Fedor, and your opponent got Willy the Wimp?

01:14:50.000 Willy the Wimp in his Cadillac coffin, and Willy the Wimp got KO'd in the first round, and then you went three hard rounds.

01:14:59.000 And then the other guy gets Vanderlei, and he's Krokop.

01:15:04.000 Yeah, well, you did do that.

01:15:05.000 So what?

01:15:06.000 Fuck it.

01:15:06.000 You know what I did?

01:15:07.000 I laid in the back.

01:15:08.000 I had IVs.

01:15:09.000 I had ice on me.

01:15:10.000 And honestly, the biggest problem wasn't even the fighting.

01:15:12.000 It was getting heat exhaustion before I even showed up for the tournament because dead summer of Orange County and we had no air conditioning whatsoever, no breezeways in that old gym.

01:15:22.000 And I started off doing 10-minute rounds just going through...

01:15:26.000 Name pro fighters, owning them.

01:15:28.000 And then all of a sudden, eight minutes.

01:15:30.000 Then six minutes.

01:15:31.000 Then four.

01:15:31.000 Then I can barely get a two-minute round off without falling apart.

01:15:34.000 And I'm just going, what the fuck is wrong with me?

01:15:36.000 And then people start packing me with ice bags in between rounds and in between sessions.

01:15:41.000 And all of a sudden, my energy would start to come back some.

01:15:44.000 I just go, oh, well, this is fucked.

01:15:46.000 But oh well, let's get over there and do it.

01:15:48.000 So you were training, and as you were training, you had no air conditioning in the gym, and you were getting heat exhaustion.

01:15:53.000 Yeah.

01:15:53.000 It was fucking 100 degrees outside of time.

01:15:55.000 And that fucked with your conditioning when you actually went to fight because you never were able to push.

01:15:59.000 By the time.

01:16:00.000 I could push, but I mean there were things like when Noguera mounted me, right?

01:16:04.000 I gave him my arm on purpose because I couldn't get him off a mount because I couldn't expend that kind of energy.

01:16:10.000 It just wasn't there.

01:16:11.000 So I know if he goes to try and armbar me, that shit ain't gonna happen.

01:16:15.000 So this is just because of all the time that you spent in the gym under heat exhaustion.

01:16:20.000 Yes.

01:16:20.000 So you were never able to do those 10-minute rounds, those long rounds in the gym, because it just got too hot.

01:16:26.000 Why didn't you guys put fucking air conditioning in your gym?

01:16:28.000 Not my gym.

01:16:29.000 Not my decision.

01:16:30.000 God damn it, Eric Paulson.

01:16:31.000 Is it his gym?

01:16:32.000 Yeah, it's his gym.

01:16:34.000 Cheap fuck.

01:16:35.000 Just kidding.

01:16:36.000 I love Eric Paulson.

01:16:36.000 I struggled to get back.

01:16:40.000 It took me about until next year before I really finally fucking felt better again.

01:16:44.000 When I fought Nastula, I was still just...

01:16:47.000 Struggling.

01:16:47.000 My CNS was shot.

01:16:50.000 Central nervous system.

01:16:51.000 Really?

01:16:51.000 All just from the heat exhaustion?

01:16:53.000 Oh, dude, it was so bad.

01:16:54.000 Wow.

01:16:55.000 What about Cronk Gym in fucking Detroit?

01:16:57.000 They would crank up the heat and everybody would box up.

01:16:59.000 I hate that shit.

01:17:00.000 120 degrees.

01:17:01.000 And everybody is...

01:17:01.000 I'm more susceptible to it, I think, than others.

01:17:05.000 Because I'm so white, Viking-like, that if, you know, a little bit of cold probably would have done me some good.

01:17:12.000 Right, if you had some African dude in there sparring with you, he'd have an advantage.

01:17:16.000 But some people don't take the heat as well as others, and some people do.

01:17:21.000 You know, it's just a matter of fact.

01:17:22.000 And here's the thing.

01:17:24.000 I got over there.

01:17:25.000 I fought my ass off.

01:17:26.000 I was exhausted.

01:17:28.000 I could have been bowed out and been like, oh no, Krokop is just going to walk over into the finals and everybody was going to be like, oh, he had a really tough fight with Noguera.

01:17:36.000 That's acceptable.

01:17:37.000 We'll give him a pass on that.

01:17:38.000 But I wouldn't give me a pass.

01:17:39.000 Fuck that.

01:17:40.000 So what did I do?

01:17:42.000 They put ice bags on anything.

01:17:43.000 It was banged up.

01:17:44.000 Doctors came back, gave me an IV and some vitamins, and hung it off the locker door.

01:17:50.000 And I just laid on the ground.

01:17:51.000 And I had Megumi Fuji with me and my ex-girlfriend at the time and Eric and Hiro Yukiabe, my friends with me.

01:17:58.000 And I just was there with them.

01:18:00.000 And the officials come back and go, so are you going to fight the last fight?

01:18:05.000 I'm like, yes, I am.

01:18:07.000 Damn right I am.

01:18:08.000 Because that's what a man does.

01:18:12.000 I fought.

01:18:13.000 That's what a man does is in a tournament.

01:18:15.000 That's what a man does is in a tournament.

01:18:16.000 Let's get the fuck out of here.

01:18:17.000 But, you know, I didn't show up to take second place.

01:18:22.000 I showed up to take first or die trying.

01:18:25.000 And fuck it, you know?

01:18:28.000 But why do you think that that's better to have a tournament?

01:18:30.000 Like, what is it about it?

01:18:31.000 Just because the public anticipates having those fights, watching how it plays out?

01:18:35.000 It's so interesting to see.

01:18:37.000 I mean, come on, look at March Madness.

01:18:39.000 It's one of the biggest things ever.

01:18:40.000 And if it wasn't a tournament, people would not be as excited.

01:18:43.000 Right, but that's a tournament over a long period of time.

01:18:45.000 They're not playing a bunch of games in a night.

01:18:46.000 That's actually a perfect example why it doesn't apply.

01:18:49.000 But, I just mean the concept of tournaments.

01:18:51.000 And even doing tournaments over time is still great too, but the one night tournament is...

01:18:58.000 Let's see who comes out on top.

01:18:59.000 Plus, it's a great way to try and re-establish orders.

01:19:05.000 So, let's say you have a whole bunch, a pool, you got a handful of all these guys and you don't know who really fits where.

01:19:11.000 Boom.

01:19:12.000 They go through this one-night tournament.

01:19:13.000 Bah, there's a winner.

01:19:14.000 Someone was able to gut it out and come out on top and come out with all that, dealing with all that adversity.

01:19:20.000 And then you look down the line, like, who did what?

01:19:24.000 And then even the guy who did the worst in the tournament, let's say all of a sudden, non-tournament style, they start racking up the wins, and it's like, oh, wow, you know, look at that story.

01:19:32.000 That person's coming back from what we would consider to be a disaster, and now they're Phoenix rising from the ashes.

01:19:38.000 You know, it gives such an opportunity to...

01:19:41.000 To show human spirit.

01:19:43.000 To show overcoming adversity.

01:19:45.000 And it's an instant trade-off.

01:19:48.000 I think it's a great idea for grappling.

01:19:51.000 Eddie Bravo had the Eddie Bravo Invitational, the EBI, last week.

01:19:55.000 And it was a tournament.

01:19:56.000 And it was really exciting to watch.

01:19:57.000 Watch guys make it to the finals.

01:19:59.000 And watch guys, you know, you see the brackets play out.

01:20:02.000 I think it's great for grappling.

01:20:03.000 What I worry about it is with head injuries.

01:20:05.000 I worry about guys fighting the first round.

01:20:08.000 Getting their bell rang.

01:20:09.000 Having some internal bleeding, perhaps.

01:20:12.000 I don't think that the medical observations should be overlooked.

01:20:18.000 I think that's important.

01:20:20.000 But I really think tournaments would help bring some excitement back to MMA. But then, here's the other thing.

01:20:26.000 I think five-minute rounds are not long enough.

01:20:28.000 I think we need ten-minute rounds at the very least.

01:20:30.000 Brian, you agree?

01:20:31.000 Yes, I do.

01:20:32.000 I see you nodding your head over there frantically.

01:20:34.000 Let's not even talk about how the 10-point must system doesn't belong in MMA at all.

01:20:39.000 Terrible.

01:20:41.000 And I understood why they use the 10-point, because it's to try and keep people honest.

01:20:46.000 Oh, you can see that they scored the round.

01:20:48.000 No one's sitting.

01:20:50.000 That hasn't been explained to me.

01:20:53.000 Well, they just borrowed it from boxing.

01:20:54.000 It doesn't need it.

01:20:56.000 I liked it in Japan where they just look, okay.

01:20:59.000 In Pancras, it used to be two judges on the outside and the ref.

01:21:03.000 Their judgments at the end.

01:21:05.000 If they decide, all three of them convene, he won.

01:21:09.000 See, I disagree with that, using the ref, because I think a referee should...

01:21:13.000 I think that's a very singular job, and I think the referee's job should be making sure that...

01:21:19.000 I can see the argument there.

01:21:21.000 I'm just saying how it used to be.

01:21:22.000 But even still, no matter what the idea was, and back in Pride, you had your criteria.

01:21:27.000 Matt would sit ringside with a piece of paper, one name and then another name, and a line down the middle for each side.

01:21:33.000 And he would sit there and he would put hash marks in each box.

01:21:36.000 And those hash marks meant something along those criteria that were...

01:21:41.000 That were important.

01:21:42.000 That he could look back and it would help him remember how this fight went.

01:21:46.000 Well, Matt's an excellent referee.

01:21:48.000 And this is just him as a judge, too.

01:21:51.000 So, I agree.

01:21:53.000 I'm more towards that side.

01:21:54.000 But even still, now you see guys just gaming a five-minute round.

01:21:58.000 Stifling, doing this, doing that, and then petering off to the fucking stool, coming back out and just trying to run the same thing or win two out of three.

01:22:07.000 And then they walk out, look at me.

01:22:09.000 It's like, well, you didn't even really try to kick that guy's ass.

01:22:12.000 Well, I won.

01:22:13.000 Have fun with that.

01:22:15.000 What do you think about stand-ups?

01:22:16.000 Do you think that stand-ups should be a part of MMA? Yes.

01:22:19.000 You do.

01:22:20.000 But that has to be with...

01:22:21.000 The other thing with MMA is it needs to be more...

01:22:24.000 Attention to stalling.

01:22:26.000 If you're not trying to finish your opponent and damage them, take them out, you're stalling.

01:22:32.000 What do you think about if they do have rounds?

01:22:35.000 Like, say if you go a 10-minute round.

01:22:37.000 At the end of 10 minutes, you're on top of the guy mounting him.

01:22:40.000 Start right back with the mount on the second round.

01:22:42.000 That's an interesting concept, but I like standing him back up on the feet again.

01:22:46.000 But why?

01:22:47.000 That gives a striker a big advantage.

01:22:49.000 You need to be a well-rounded fighter.

01:22:51.000 Right, but if you work so hard to get a guy to the ground, he didn't earn getting back up to his feet.

01:22:55.000 Why should he be able to get back up to his feet?

01:22:56.000 Well, that's the whole concept of rounds, is the restart of the contest.

01:23:00.000 Right.

01:23:01.000 Restart of you getting a chance to get back up.

01:23:03.000 That's true, too.

01:23:04.000 Yeah.

01:23:05.000 So if he can survive the round, what does that mean?

01:23:06.000 If it is that dire to you, that you cannot...

01:23:10.000 Afford to have that guy ever get back to his feet, either by the round ending, or by him escaping, or the referee standing you up for inactivity.

01:23:18.000 Well, one, you're fucked as a fighter anyways.

01:23:21.000 You have a huge deficit.

01:23:23.000 Number two, you better finish him.

01:23:25.000 Right.

01:23:25.000 You better finish him.

01:23:26.000 That also goes to so, hey, if you're the greatest grappler submission guy in the world and you have no takedowns, enjoy getting your ass kicked.

01:23:32.000 Well, there's a few fighters that are really good at holding guys down.

01:23:35.000 Yeah.

01:23:36.000 And I don't think there's anything wrong with that because I think it's important to know that a guy can hold you down.

01:23:40.000 Like, Ben Askren's my perfect example.

01:23:42.000 Ben Askren is such a good fucking wrestler that he gets a hold of guys and he puts them on their back and they can't get back up.

01:23:49.000 And if that's the case, like, standing a guy, giving a guy a free shot to stand back up because...

01:23:54.000 Ben Askren may or may not be as active as he would like, but still, the guy who's on the bottom wants to get up, but can't.

01:24:02.000 Right.

01:24:02.000 But, you know, you've got ten minutes to work, I see.

01:24:05.000 And I think, honestly, with ten minutes, I don't think Askren would have as many decisions as he does, because while Askren has kept a lot of people on their back, I've seen him work a lot, too, looking for submissions, punching.

01:24:17.000 He's not a power puncher.

01:24:18.000 He's a pillow puncher.

01:24:20.000 But 1FC allows him to do knees to the head on the ground.

01:24:23.000 That's another thing I would change.

01:24:25.000 I think knees to the head, soccer kick, stomps.

01:24:27.000 I'm all for all that.

01:24:28.000 But at the very least, knees to the head change things.

01:24:30.000 And a lot.

01:24:32.000 Especially even for the grappler.

01:24:34.000 But with 10 minutes, you want to call Ben Askren boring, I think in 10 minutes he's got finishes.

01:24:41.000 Yeah.

01:24:41.000 I think that a lot of guys would have finishes, but the other thing that changes that is when a ref is standing over the top going, action, action, action.

01:24:49.000 Okay, get up.

01:24:51.000 You're stalling.

01:24:52.000 You know when a guy is stalling, you know when a guy is not.

01:24:54.000 Yeah, but I think a guy who's stalling, if you can't get that guy off you, fuck you.

01:24:59.000 Well, that's a different fight then.

01:25:01.000 Is it though?

01:25:02.000 Because the guy, you're on the bottom, you're still fighting.

01:25:05.000 No, no, I hear you that way, but we're talking about prize fighting, entertainment.

01:25:11.000 If it's the fight that you're talking about, that's not for entertainment.

01:25:15.000 No one wants to pay to see that.

01:25:17.000 You know what that is?

01:25:18.000 That's catch wrestling in the 1800s.

01:25:21.000 That's pro wrestling in the 1900s where three hours plus of guys trying to get an advantage and can't.

01:25:28.000 Because they're so well versed of each other.

01:25:30.000 They're so tough.

01:25:31.000 They're so skilled.

01:25:32.000 One guy getting stuck on the bottom.

01:25:33.000 He can't get up.

01:25:34.000 There's no restarts.

01:25:35.000 There's no nothing.

01:25:36.000 There's no...

01:25:37.000 There it goes.

01:25:38.000 Let's see when that first fall comes.

01:25:39.000 But that died out.

01:25:40.000 It didn't work.

01:25:41.000 If you look at what they were doing with Elite XC, that's the worst case example of trying to make it entertaining.

01:25:46.000 Sure.

01:25:47.000 Sure, sure.

01:25:48.000 And I'm not suggesting that you just...

01:25:50.000 Well, explain what they used to do.

01:25:51.000 They used to stand people up for like 15 seconds.

01:25:54.000 15 seconds on the ground, they'd stand you back up.

01:25:56.000 They stood up big country.

01:25:57.000 He was on top of Orlovsky, inside control, working at Kimura, or what you would call a double wristlet.

01:26:04.000 I don't know if he was ever going to get it, but he was in an advantageous position.

01:26:08.000 He was working for a finish.

01:26:09.000 He should not have been stood up.

01:26:11.000 And he's an expert in that particular style of fighting.

01:26:14.000 He's a submission expert.

01:26:15.000 He's a ground guy.

01:26:16.000 And he wasn't just laying on him.

01:26:17.000 He was trying to submit Arlovsky.

01:26:20.000 And, of course, with anything, even as the sport sits now, we need better referees.

01:26:26.000 And we need better judges.

01:26:28.000 Yeah.

01:26:29.000 That stoppage last week.

01:26:31.000 Oh, that was awful.

01:26:32.000 They reversed that.

01:26:33.000 Oh, did they?

01:26:33.000 They reversed it.

01:26:34.000 Yeah, it's a no contest now.

01:26:35.000 Or, you know, even when Faber is down there getting walloped on his shoulder, and it's like, show me something.

01:26:41.000 Yeah.

01:26:42.000 One, you couldn't see his thumbs up, I got it.

01:26:45.000 But on the second hand...

01:26:48.000 You can tell he's not getting his ass kicked right now.

01:26:50.000 Right.

01:26:50.000 Let it go.

01:26:51.000 Yeah.

01:26:51.000 Let it fucking go.

01:26:52.000 When a guy's turtling and the guy's just hitting your gloves and arms and then the fight gets stopped, that is very frustrating.

01:26:58.000 It is.

01:26:58.000 I have a problem with that.

01:26:59.000 I watched all these fights back in the day.

01:27:01.000 I'd seen dudes getting shell-shocked on top.

01:27:04.000 Just artillery dropped on them and surviving it.

01:27:08.000 Then reversing the fight, dudes all totally, totally petered out.

01:27:12.000 Brock Lesnar, Shane Carwin.

01:27:14.000 And just kicking the shit out of them.

01:27:15.000 Yeah, it happens.

01:27:16.000 And Brock Lesnar and Carwin, that's a good example, too.

01:27:18.000 But no one wants to let that happen anymore.

01:27:20.000 Oh, that's too brutal.

01:27:21.000 Well, we're fighting.

01:27:22.000 We're not doing patty cake.

01:27:23.000 Well, there's always that thing about trying to make it more appealing to the mainstream.

01:27:29.000 It'll be better for everybody.

01:27:31.000 And yet, it's not better for the people that are actually doing it.

01:27:34.000 No.

01:27:35.000 It's definitely not better for someone who gets stuck in a position and they, you know, intelligently defend yourself.

01:27:41.000 Well, guess what?

01:27:42.000 There's some positions where when a guy's wailing on you, it's intelligent to just cover up.

01:27:46.000 Sure.

01:27:47.000 Remember Tank and Severn?

01:27:49.000 Severn kept palm striking him and just throwing all these shots, and Severn wasn't palm striking him because he didn't know how to punch.

01:27:54.000 It's because he didn't want to break his hand.

01:27:56.000 Right.

01:27:56.000 No gloves, no wraps.

01:27:58.000 So he's smacking Tank, but Tank, he tries to get up, but he can't.

01:28:03.000 Now...

01:28:04.000 One of these modern refs will probably stop that fight.

01:28:06.000 Oh, you're not intelligently defending yourself.

01:28:08.000 He's not going to go out.

01:28:10.000 He's not getting his bell rung.

01:28:12.000 He's not getting the shit kicked out of him.

01:28:14.000 He just can't get up right now.

01:28:15.000 You hear what Frank talked about?

01:28:17.000 Oh, when Tank talked about it?

01:28:18.000 Uh-uh.

01:28:19.000 He said, I have nightmares getting molested by Freddie Mercury.

01:28:22.000 Yeah.

01:28:24.000 And if Tank tried to get up, he was just getting controlled.

01:28:28.000 He couldn't get up, but Severin didn't have the ability to really finish him either.

01:28:32.000 It is what it is.

01:28:33.000 That's what it is.

01:28:34.000 The fight needed to keep going.

01:28:35.000 But I don't think that should be stood up.

01:28:37.000 No, not in that case, because Severin was incredibly active.

01:28:40.000 He was trying, he just didn't really have the skill.

01:28:45.000 Submission ability.

01:28:46.000 Yeah, and here's another one.

01:28:48.000 Ruan Potts getting punched in the ribs and them stopping it because he's stuck there.

01:28:52.000 Anthony Hamilton, yeah.

01:28:53.000 Do you see him tapping?

01:28:54.000 No.

01:28:54.000 Do you see him saying, I want out?

01:28:56.000 No.

01:28:57.000 Yeah, I didn't agree with that either.

01:28:58.000 I don't care how much he's getting punched in the fucking ribs.

01:29:00.000 Let him get punched in the ribs.

01:29:01.000 They stopped that fight just to rescue everybody from how boring it was because he was just on top of them punching them in the same spot.

01:29:06.000 Everybody's like, we've seen enough.

01:29:08.000 Ooh, look at that bruise.

01:29:09.000 So what?

01:29:09.000 It is bruised.

01:29:10.000 This is a bruise.

01:29:11.000 It's a very bad bruise.

01:29:12.000 He's going to be so sore tomorrow.

01:29:14.000 He's going to have a black and blue spot.

01:29:16.000 Yes!

01:29:17.000 A real black and blue spot.

01:29:18.000 Oh my god, I might even turn yellow and purple at some point.

01:29:20.000 It could very well turn like an orangey-greeny kind of a thing.

01:29:24.000 Oh god, we can't allow that.

01:29:26.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:29:26.000 What if...

01:29:27.000 Stand them up.

01:29:28.000 Yeah.

01:29:29.000 Or stop the fight altogether.

01:29:31.000 That's not intelligent defense.

01:29:32.000 You're not an intelligent ref.

01:29:34.000 There's certain guys that fight in the UFC where you gotta go, man, who the fuck let you fight in the UFC? Well, they need a lot of fighters.

01:29:40.000 They have so many events.

01:29:41.000 So, so, so many events.

01:29:43.000 They gotta fill them up.

01:29:45.000 Do you think there's too many?

01:29:47.000 Yes, there are.

01:29:49.000 They have a plan for what they're trying to accomplish, and this is what they see as the path to doing so.

01:29:56.000 You know what I think there should be?

01:29:57.000 I think there should be an A-League and a B-League.

01:29:59.000 I agree.

01:29:59.000 I think there should be a UFC and a Strikeforce.

01:30:01.000 I agree.

01:30:02.000 If Tuesday Night Fights should have one headliner-type dude or one main-card-type guy and the rest are just up-and-comers.

01:30:08.000 Yeah, why not?

01:30:09.000 I mean, and then those guys will graduate to become, you know...

01:30:13.000 Right.

01:30:13.000 Well, can you imagine, even this, what if they kept Strikeforce and UFC, and let's say Strikeforce went Pride style, and UFC was UFC, and then they had a Super Bowl match every year, and each year it would switch.

01:30:28.000 This year it's Pride rules.

01:30:31.000 This year it's UFC rules.

01:30:33.000 Oh, God, I can hear it now!

01:30:35.000 Oh, but the difference in that...

01:30:36.000 If you can't fight...

01:30:39.000 And one or the other, if it is that dire to you, as an athlete, that you can only be successful in one arena, you're just not that good.

01:30:48.000 Well, you're not that well-rounded.

01:30:49.000 Well, for sure.

01:30:50.000 But, I mean, anything you can do in one, you can do in the other, really.

01:30:53.000 Right, but we did see big differences between guys fighting in the cage and guys fighting in the ring.

01:30:57.000 That didn't have anything to do with it, no.

01:30:59.000 You don't think Crow Cop was talking about how big of a difference it was?

01:31:02.000 Elbows on the ground was a big difference, too, as well.

01:31:04.000 That definitely changes some things, but no, I don't think that was it.

01:31:07.000 So you think it's just a lack of preparation?

01:31:08.000 Proper preparation?

01:31:09.000 I personally don't have a perfect answer for that, but I don't believe it was that.

01:31:14.000 Well, obviously he did much better after that.

01:31:16.000 Yes, he did.

01:31:17.000 He got better at figuring out the cage and the elbows on the ground and the defense.

01:31:20.000 Yes.

01:31:21.000 So it's probably just a lack of the proper preparation.

01:31:24.000 Maybe.

01:31:24.000 There's only a few places.

01:31:26.000 If you really looked at young athletes today that want to compete in MMA, is there a dozen places in this country that you could go and get a proper education as far as being a real professional MMA fighter?

01:31:38.000 Is there even a dozen?

01:31:39.000 You know, I can't say I've done all the research to say...

01:31:44.000 Conclusively, one way or the other.

01:31:45.000 I know that AMC, CSW... One of the best.

01:31:49.000 AMC is...

01:31:50.000 I mean, Matt Hume is about as knowledgeable as anybody who's ever lived.

01:31:53.000 Well, and look, Matt Hume and Eric Paulson are kind of cut from the same cloth in that their lineage comes down from Carl Gotch, from Sayama and Funaki, and well-rounded, full-meal-deal dudes.

01:32:07.000 They could do everything.

01:32:08.000 Yep.

01:32:09.000 And...

01:32:11.000 So, there's that.

01:32:12.000 But, I mean, I don't know.

01:32:15.000 I mean, I imagine Greg Jackson's could probably make you a...

01:32:18.000 For us, a hobby.

01:32:19.000 Yeah, maybe.

01:32:21.000 I mean, I've never trained under these people.

01:32:22.000 I knew that I was very...

01:32:25.000 When I moved from Matt's gym to go train somewhere else...

01:32:32.000 It was really hard for me to find.

01:32:34.000 There wasn't very many people back then that I felt like I could go there and learn, where I wouldn't be the one dictating all the training all the time.

01:32:46.000 I would be somewhere where I could learn and be trained.

01:32:50.000 What made you decide to go from Seattle and then live in Southern California?

01:32:53.000 How come you don't stay up there and train with Matt?

01:32:56.000 At the time, it just wasn't really feasible.

01:32:59.000 I didn't have the sparring partners, and Matt wasn't really around that much, so I was ending up having to do a lot of my own training.

01:33:05.000 Because he was going to Pride to He had a lot of stuff on his plate, and especially, like I said, I had no sparring partners.

01:33:13.000 I had nothing.

01:33:15.000 Reese Andy was my main dude, and we would do a lot of training together.

01:33:20.000 Somewhat Jeff Munson, but a lot of the time I'd end up teaching Jeff, and even teaching Reese, and they were great guys, and I learned a lot from them.

01:33:27.000 They were very, very, very helpful, but I didn't have sparring partners.

01:33:31.000 And then I just thought, well, this isn't the place to be.

01:33:38.000 Barnon's favorite place in the U.S. One of my favorite places in the whole world.

01:33:41.000 I think it's an amazing city.

01:33:42.000 Do you like clouds?

01:33:43.000 I like clouds.

01:33:44.000 I like flannels.

01:33:45.000 Depression?

01:33:45.000 Suicide?

01:33:45.000 I'm into depression and heroin altogether.

01:33:48.000 Coffee?

01:33:49.000 Yep.

01:33:49.000 Stinky pussy.

01:33:50.000 Lost.

01:33:50.000 Hey!

01:33:51.000 Hey!

01:33:51.000 Where'd you come up with that?

01:33:52.000 Yeah, what the hell?

01:33:54.000 Why do you have some Seattle stinky pussy stories or what?

01:33:56.000 Yeah, what are you talking about?

01:33:57.000 They just never clean it.

01:33:58.000 They're just all in bed, sleeping, crying and shit.

01:34:01.000 That's not true at all.

01:34:02.000 No way.

01:34:04.000 First of all, you're not really supposed to clean your pussy.

01:34:06.000 Yeah, it's okay.

01:34:08.000 It's a self-cleaning organ.

01:34:09.000 They have a lot of probiotic stuff up there, like yogurts and kimchi that they made from the farmer's market.

01:34:16.000 They're good.

01:34:16.000 It's actually important for women to not do that.

01:34:19.000 Like douching and stuff, that's like super bad for you.

01:34:21.000 Super bad.

01:34:21.000 Yeah.

01:34:22.000 Isn't that amazing?

01:34:23.000 We used to promote that all the time.

01:34:24.000 Girls thought they had to do it.

01:34:25.000 My mom did it all the time.

01:34:26.000 How do you know this?

01:34:27.000 Because when I was a kid, when I was a kid, I used one of the- Ma!

01:34:30.000 What's that vacuum noise?

01:34:34.000 Who opened up the Hoover Dam?

01:34:37.000 The gates of hell.

01:34:39.000 When I was a kid, I saw one of those empty bottles in the trash can, and I used it to drink Kool-Aid out of, because I thought it was a cool bottle, because it had that cool straw thing.

01:34:47.000 I believe every minute of this.

01:34:47.000 And my mom caught me, and she never told me what it was until years later.

01:34:51.000 And then when he found out, he thought it was even cooler.

01:34:53.000 Yeah, you were walking around the house, sucking on your mom's douche bag.

01:34:56.000 I swear to God.

01:34:57.000 And she was like, go ahead, Brian, play outside.

01:35:00.000 See those power lines?

01:35:01.000 Go climb them.

01:35:03.000 Here, have this lead paint sandwich right now.

01:35:06.000 It's a true story.

01:35:07.000 All that douching has now reversed.

01:35:13.000 It's come full frontal where people wear it now with all the dragons and fucking fleur-de-lis and velour on their shirts.

01:35:22.000 How's that douching?

01:35:23.000 Oh, they're outside douching.

01:35:24.000 I get it.

01:35:25.000 External douche.

01:35:26.000 External douche.

01:35:28.000 You know, I wanted to go somewhere where, one, I knew there would be no issues in trying to find people to work out with.

01:35:37.000 And SoCal is still, in my opinion, the mecca of MMA. And jiu-jitsu.

01:35:43.000 You need big guys, right?

01:35:45.000 For a guy like you, it's important to have heavy guys to train.

01:35:47.000 Heavy guys, quality guys, you need a whole lot of different kinds of guys.

01:35:52.000 Yeah, you need both, right?

01:35:53.000 Guys that shave, guys that don't shave.

01:35:55.000 Really?

01:35:55.000 Sure.

01:35:56.000 Why not?

01:35:57.000 But for you, it really is important to have heavy good guys, right?

01:36:01.000 For a guy like you, say if you were working out with a bunch of really good middleweights, it's not good enough, right?

01:36:07.000 Depends on what I'm trying to work on.

01:36:09.000 If I'm just going against a guy, just working on passing somebody's guard or something like that, sure, fine.

01:36:14.000 Or just catching a leg, fine.

01:36:16.000 But if I need to have someone to push me, I need someone to be able to match me with strength and weight, all that kind of stuff.

01:36:24.000 And then Eric was down here.

01:36:26.000 Also, everything...

01:36:27.000 Anything else that you could jump off from fighting as an entertainment commodity into anything else.

01:36:35.000 Acting.

01:36:36.000 That's why you keep bringing that up.

01:36:37.000 Is that what you're trying to do now?

01:36:39.000 You're a smart dude.

01:36:40.000 You think about your athletic career.

01:36:42.000 You know you can't do this forever.

01:36:44.000 Everybody's athletic window is a very small portion of their life.

01:36:48.000 It's important, but you need to not just be the best athlete.

01:36:52.000 You need to grow as a person, and you need to be able to.

01:36:55.000 It's not about setting up plan B. It's about evolving as a person.

01:37:01.000 It's about opening new doors and doing new things and growing and having new opportunities.

01:37:06.000 And so I've been acting.

01:37:08.000 I've done commentary.

01:37:09.000 I'm doing commentary on New Japan Pro Wrestling on Axis right now.

01:37:13.000 And that's not new to me.

01:37:15.000 I've never done pro wrestling commentary.

01:37:17.000 But I've done tons of fight commentary.

01:37:19.000 I did commentary for Pride.

01:37:20.000 I did commentary for some other events from Pancras.

01:37:24.000 And...

01:37:25.000 It was like, cool, I can do this, and that's no problem, even though...

01:37:29.000 And people keep hitting me up.

01:37:30.000 Why don't you do UFC events?

01:37:31.000 Why don't you do this?

01:37:32.000 Well, no one...

01:37:33.000 They're not hiring me.

01:37:34.000 So that's why I'm not doing commentary there.

01:37:36.000 And then I got the Steven Seagal movie coming out, Absolution.

01:37:40.000 It should be out relatively soon.

01:37:41.000 Do you have to spar with Steven Seagal in this movie?

01:37:43.000 I did not have to spar with Steven Seagal.

01:37:44.000 My balls are perfectly intact.

01:37:47.000 I didn't have any fight scenes with him.

01:37:49.000 Did you have scenes with him?

01:37:51.000 Acting scenes?

01:37:51.000 Not really.

01:37:53.000 He was in a scene where I'm in the background.

01:37:56.000 I just end up getting into a fight with his sidekick guy anyways.

01:37:59.000 So I give that dude his hero moment.

01:38:02.000 Byron Mann, who did a great job.

01:38:04.000 And I've got another movie that should be coming out sometime this year called Chuck Hank and the San Diego Twins.

01:38:09.000 It's an indie film.

01:38:10.000 It's fucking completely insane.

01:38:12.000 So how do you balance that between training?

01:38:14.000 Are you leaning more towards that area now?

01:38:17.000 You haven't fought since the Travis Brown fight, right?

01:38:19.000 Right.

01:38:19.000 How long ago was that?

01:38:21.000 Last year, 2014, December.

01:38:24.000 Do you have anything on your plate right now?

01:38:27.000 I'm hoping, at some point, to get a word on whether or not I'm fighting Roy Nelson.

01:38:32.000 Someone brought up the idea of Roy and me doing Matamoros.

01:38:36.000 Yeah, that's what I had for you, too.

01:38:38.000 And I was like, oh, okay, really?

01:38:39.000 And then Roy said, nah, that sounds cool, but we fight first.

01:38:43.000 It pays better.

01:38:44.000 And I went, well, if you're willing, I'm willing.

01:38:47.000 And he said, good, let's make it happen.

01:38:49.000 I said, well, I guess that's that.

01:38:51.000 If we say we're willing to fight and we're ready to step up and go, then you know it's legit.

01:38:55.000 And have there been any conversations with Joe Silva or the UFC? I imagine my manager's dealing with all of that.

01:39:01.000 Oh, so you haven't?

01:39:02.000 No.

01:39:02.000 So your manager was informed of all this stuff and, hey, go deal with that.

01:39:06.000 Yeah, pretty much.

01:39:07.000 I gotta act.

01:39:08.000 Pretty much.

01:39:09.000 I gotta hit acting class.

01:39:11.000 Now, you wouldn't be opposed to doing a Metamorris with him, though.

01:39:15.000 No, I'm not opposed to doing a Metamorris with anybody.

01:39:19.000 I don't think I'll ever get a chance to finish the rubber match with Noguera.

01:39:24.000 But I could at least probably get him on the mat in Metamorris.

01:39:27.000 Do you think so?

01:39:28.000 I think so.

01:39:29.000 I mean, I don't see why he wouldn't want to do it and why people wouldn't want to see that.

01:39:33.000 But I've already got Abreu Cyborg coming up May 9th for Metamorris 6. That's very interesting.

01:39:40.000 That's very interesting, especially after you just submitted Dean Lister.

01:39:43.000 That's very huge, dude.

01:39:45.000 Submitting Dean Lister is a gigantic accomplishment.

01:39:48.000 Hadn't been done in 16 years.

01:39:50.000 That's amazing.

01:39:50.000 Not since the Clinton administration had anybody tapped Dean Lister.

01:39:53.000 And the way you got him with that choke, I mean, that is some old-school shit.

01:39:59.000 That's high school wrestling, practically.

01:40:01.000 Yeah, and with wrestling shoes on and old-school spandex.

01:40:21.000 Mm-hmm.

01:40:24.000 Absolutely.

01:40:25.000 It's an homage to my trainers, Billy Robinson, Carl Gotch, and also to Eric, because that's from his roots, and Matt Hume, but from my training, my roots, my heritage, my catch wrestling training, and to Antonio Inoki,

01:40:40.000 who is one of my trainers for professional wrestling.

01:40:43.000 So...

01:40:44.000 I had the towel around my neck, the robe, even the way I took the robe off.

01:40:48.000 All that, the black boots, it's all black.

01:40:51.000 It's all in homage and respect to my catch wrestling roots and my trainers.

01:40:56.000 Well, I think it's important to highlight those roots, too, for just the lineage of MMA. Because a lot of folks that are on the outside are not aware that there were several different branches of submission fighting.

01:41:10.000 You know, not just Judo, not just Jiu-Jitsu, not just Samba.

01:41:13.000 But Catch Wrestling had some really legit submissions that are still used today and a lot of really great grapplers, but Catch Wrestling eventually sort of morphed into professional wrestling and a lot of folks are not aware of the original aspect of Catch Wrestling,

01:41:31.000 which we're talking about these three-hour matches and guys that would go to, they would do carnival matches where they would roll into town and wrestle anybody in the house.

01:41:41.000 Do you know who owned a big ol' carnival in Brazil?

01:41:43.000 Who?

01:41:43.000 The head of the Gracie family at the time.

01:41:46.000 Gustavo.

01:41:47.000 Really?

01:41:47.000 He owned a carnival, and he had professional wrestling, catch wrestling matches at his carnival.

01:41:52.000 Who should happen to come and perform in one of these catch wrestling matches but the Count Koma, Mitsuo Maeda.

01:42:01.000 He stayed in Brazil.

01:42:03.000 Carlos Gracie started training under him in judo and catch.

01:42:09.000 That is where now all of a sudden you have Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

01:42:13.000 So it's sort of branched off from a bunch of different sources, not just from judo, but from catch wrestling as well.

01:42:19.000 Right, because Maeda had been traveling the world, competing in catch matches and all that.

01:42:23.000 Kimura competed in catch matches as well.

01:42:26.000 So even the Americana arm lock...

01:42:29.000 Came from American wrestlers.

01:42:31.000 Catch.

01:42:32.000 The lute de libre background comes from Catch.

01:42:36.000 Tattoo, Euclides Hatem, he was a Catch wrestler.

01:42:40.000 He was trained to do show matches, but at the same time, he trained, even back then, even if you did works, you trained as a shooter.

01:42:48.000 You trained to do that shit for real.

01:42:49.000 Look at this beautiful outfit.

01:42:51.000 Look at this motherfucker.

01:42:52.000 Uh, comes out with a robe on.

01:42:55.000 This is so old school of you.

01:42:58.000 Look at this.

01:42:58.000 To do this in Metamorris, you almost had to feel like you're kind of wearing, like, a costume.

01:43:05.000 Yeah, I knew that people would be unfamiliar.

01:43:07.000 They wouldn't understand it.

01:43:08.000 Well, a lot of people did understand it, though.

01:43:10.000 A lot of people on the underground, especially, were like, look at this shit.

01:43:12.000 And those socks are for reference to all my time spent in Japan and, you know, the people I've trained over there.

01:43:21.000 But they...

01:43:25.000 You know, they laughed when I said I was going to wear shoes.

01:43:28.000 They're like, oh my god, you're going to wear shoes against Dean Lister?

01:43:31.000 Oh, I don't think you should do that.

01:43:33.000 Dean Lister is a leg lock specialist.

01:43:35.000 Shoes provide a lot of extra traction for holding on the leg locks.

01:43:37.000 All this stuff about, oh, I can't believe you're going to wear shoes.

01:43:40.000 Are you still going to do it up until the day of the event?

01:43:41.000 You're really going to wear shoes?

01:43:42.000 Yes.

01:43:44.000 I go out there, I tap him.

01:43:45.000 Oh, those shoes, that gave him such an advantage.

01:43:48.000 Oh, fuck, are you kidding me?

01:43:50.000 Now the shoes are not my detriment, they're my disadvantage.

01:43:53.000 Oh, and then it was, you weighed so much more than Dean.

01:43:56.000 Dean was like 240. I don't know, I was like 255, so I had 15 pounds on him.

01:44:01.000 I gave Dean a hug the day of the weigh-ins.

01:44:04.000 Well, we didn't actually weigh in, but I gave him a hug, and my fingers, I had to catch fingers and roll my grip into it to actually get all the way around him.

01:44:14.000 He's a big fucker.

01:44:14.000 He was so fucking thick.

01:44:15.000 He's a big fucker.

01:44:16.000 Thick and veiny.

01:44:17.000 Purple.

01:44:18.000 Whoa, easy.

01:44:19.000 Slow down.

01:44:20.000 I got nervous.

01:44:20.000 You want to help me on my ground game?

01:44:22.000 Yeah, sure, sure.

01:44:24.000 Don't worry about it.

01:44:26.000 He was a big, massive guy.

01:44:28.000 When he fought Babalu, I was really shocked that he was, like, allowing almost Babalu to lock up Darces on him.

01:44:35.000 Like, Babalu's a really good submission guy.

01:44:38.000 Yeah, he is.

01:44:39.000 He's excellent.

01:44:40.000 But Dean's just so wily at getting out of all that stuff.

01:44:43.000 Yeah, I was shocked.

01:44:44.000 I was shocked that he was allowing that.

01:44:46.000 But it also looked like he didn't have the gas to go a full 20. Hmm.

01:44:49.000 Like, you know, Babalu at the end of the match was in way better shape than Dean was.

01:44:54.000 I agree.

01:44:54.000 He's carrying around all that muscle, all that mass that he carries.

01:44:57.000 You're a bigger guy.

01:44:58.000 Like, he might be 240, but a lot of that is Mexican supplements.

01:45:02.000 There's a big difference between your 240 and his 240. You know what I'm saying?

01:45:07.000 I don't know.

01:45:07.000 I mean, I think avocado hot sauce, you know, that stuff has done wonders for endurance.

01:45:13.000 I am speaking of different supplements, sir.

01:45:18.000 Love the green sauce.

01:45:19.000 He's so skilled and talented, too.

01:45:22.000 I mean, it's not just all the extra muscles.

01:45:24.000 He was strong as shit when I wrestled him, and apparently his guys and him, Dean said he wrestled a lot of big dudes.

01:45:30.000 He wrestled against guys for pressure from top, and it's just that I was able to apply it that much better.

01:45:36.000 Did you think that you were going to be able to catch him with that choke?

01:45:38.000 Was that something specifically that you had saw before?

01:45:40.000 Did you game plan?

01:45:41.000 Well, yeah.

01:45:42.000 Well, Rico Rodriguez was the last guy to tap him.

01:45:44.000 Before that.

01:45:45.000 And how would he tap him with?

01:45:46.000 Same choke.

01:45:47.000 Exactly.

01:45:48.000 Oh, shit.

01:45:48.000 You know who taught Rico the choke, by the way?

01:45:49.000 Who?

01:45:50.000 Eric Paulson.

01:45:50.000 Get the fuck out of here.

01:45:51.000 Boxing works in Redondo Beach.

01:45:53.000 Yes.

01:45:53.000 Goddamn, man.

01:45:55.000 Yeah.

01:45:55.000 Goddamn.

01:45:56.000 You know, I remember first hearing about catch wrestling.

01:45:59.000 Was it Frank Gotch?

01:46:00.000 Was he the one that would drop?

01:46:02.000 No.

01:46:02.000 Who was the guy that would drop down?

01:46:04.000 It was a small dude.

01:46:05.000 What the fuck was his name?

01:46:06.000 God damn it.

01:46:07.000 I'm so out of the catch wrestling loop.

01:46:09.000 Frank Gotch is an American catch wrestler.

01:46:10.000 Was that who the guy was that used to do hangman's drops?

01:46:14.000 Oh, that is Farmer Burns.

01:46:16.000 Martin Farmer Burns.

01:46:18.000 Farmer Burns.

01:46:18.000 Who was Frank Gotch's coach.

01:46:19.000 I knew there was an F in there somewhere.

01:46:20.000 It's Farmer.

01:46:21.000 Yeah, he can hang himself and not go out and not break his neck.

01:46:25.000 Yeah, there's pictures of it.

01:46:27.000 Look up Farmer Burns' catch wrestling image.

01:46:30.000 See if you find an image of this guy fucking hanging himself.

01:46:32.000 It's morbid.

01:46:34.000 Yeah, look at that.

01:46:34.000 Look at that!

01:46:35.000 Look at that fucking picture!

01:46:36.000 The guy hung himself.

01:46:38.000 That's how strong his fucking neck was.

01:46:41.000 He would hang his whole- probably really good for decompression of the spine.

01:46:46.000 I actually do a thing in my house where I put- No, I wear a wetsuit.

01:46:52.000 There's a black dildo.

01:46:54.000 I have this thing that I bought, a spinal decompression setup that hangs from a door.

01:46:59.000 You put it on a bathroom door.

01:47:02.000 It's like this bolt.

01:47:02.000 It screws in place.

01:47:03.000 It has an arm, and then you ratchet it.

01:47:06.000 Click, click, and it decompresses your spine.

01:47:08.000 It's like a nice little stretch.

01:47:11.000 David Carradine did, too.

01:47:13.000 I don't think that's the same.

01:47:15.000 I think what he did was different.

01:47:16.000 How does that not just rip your door off the hinges?

01:47:19.000 Because you're not really putting your whole weight on it.

01:47:20.000 You're sitting down, first of all.

01:47:21.000 You do it in a chair.

01:47:22.000 Like, say this thing, it's Velcroing to your head.

01:47:25.000 Here, like, um...

01:47:26.000 I know what you're talking about.

01:47:27.000 You know what I'm talking about?

01:47:28.000 I do know what you're talking about.

01:47:29.000 And it's, uh...

01:47:30.000 I think if you can use it properly, uh...

01:47:33.000 It's a good thing.

01:47:35.000 Having spinal decompression is important.

01:47:37.000 Uh...

01:47:39.000 But what he was doing was not that.

01:47:41.000 No, no, exactly.

01:47:42.000 It's insane.

01:47:43.000 And, you know, catch wrestlers train fucking hard as shit.

01:47:47.000 This is what it's like, Brian.

01:47:49.000 No, that's not it, Jamie.

01:47:50.000 Fuck.

01:47:51.000 See this?

01:47:52.000 Oh, wow.

01:47:53.000 See this thing?

01:47:54.000 Yeah, that's craziness.

01:47:55.000 That's exactly what I use.

01:47:57.000 His face looks just like that when he does it, too.

01:47:59.000 Yeah, it stretches your neck a little bit.

01:48:01.000 You've got a jock strap wrapped around your jaw.

01:48:03.000 That's not what it looks like.

01:48:05.000 It's more like a bra.

01:48:07.000 It's more like a bra.

01:48:08.000 Oh, God.

01:48:09.000 I've pissed off so many women when I've said, oh, hey, whatever, blah, blah, blah, don't forget your training bra.

01:48:16.000 Training, training, like, training being athletic.

01:48:19.000 Yeah, nah, I didn't mean...

01:48:20.000 Yeah, you can't say that.

01:48:21.000 I just get the evil look.

01:48:22.000 I don't mean...

01:48:23.000 Like you have new tits.

01:48:25.000 Yeah, I meant the bra when you train.

01:48:29.000 What do they call one of those?

01:48:30.000 Sports bra.

01:48:31.000 Not a training bra.

01:48:33.000 You gotta be real specific.

01:48:34.000 It is a bra!

01:48:34.000 That you train in, but it's not a training bra.

01:48:38.000 It's a very different animal.

01:48:39.000 No, it will get you all kinds of heat.

01:48:41.000 But dudes wouldn't get upset if you said, pick up your training underwear.

01:48:45.000 Well, if you said, go get your training bra, he's like, what?

01:48:49.000 Yeah, but if you told the guy, go pick up your training cup, What do you think, like, oh, my dick's growing?

01:48:56.000 What are you trying to say?

01:48:57.000 Getting used to wearing a cup?

01:48:58.000 You need support in all the right places.

01:49:01.000 You know, this is a very random question, or it's very specific, I should say.

01:49:04.000 What do you think about Thai steel cups for grappling competitions?

01:49:08.000 Oh, yeah, sure.

01:49:09.000 They're getting outlawed in a lot of grappling competitions because they provide that extra leverage.

01:49:13.000 They're like a fulcrum point, like a leverage point.

01:49:16.000 Okay, then everybody's got a free ball.

01:49:20.000 You know, you just gotta use that third hook, wrap your dingus around there.

01:49:26.000 See, bring Brian on these podcasts.

01:49:28.000 Everything goes in the fucking 12-year-olds.

01:49:30.000 Well, here's the thing.

01:49:30.000 No, I mean, I'm here.

01:49:32.000 I'm barely 11 and a half.

01:49:33.000 So, I usually don't train with a cup.

01:49:37.000 You don't?

01:49:38.000 No, because my legs are so big that it puts bruising in the inside of my thighs.

01:49:46.000 Mm.

01:49:47.000 I personally, I have a thing I like to call combat cock.

01:49:50.000 Where everything just pulls in.

01:49:52.000 Sucks in.

01:49:52.000 Yeah.

01:49:53.000 Do you remember those guys?

01:49:54.000 It knows better than to get fucking hanging out there.

01:49:56.000 Hey, how you doing?

01:49:57.000 What's up?

01:49:57.000 High five with your foot.

01:49:58.000 Oh, your dick is educated.

01:49:59.000 My dick is smart.

01:50:00.000 Just like the Shaolin monks.

01:50:01.000 I've known guys that have lost a ball from that.

01:50:03.000 Yeah, not me.

01:50:04.000 Yeah, there was Brian Foster, is that who it was?

01:50:06.000 Brian Foster?

01:50:06.000 He was fighting for the UFC. He is in training and he got kicked in the balls and lost one of those balls.

01:50:11.000 Yeah.

01:50:12.000 Did you ever find it?

01:50:13.000 I got stupid dick.

01:50:13.000 You got stupid dick?

01:50:14.000 Yeah, your dick's retarded.

01:50:15.000 Yeah, his dick makes terrible decisions.

01:50:17.000 Hey, what's going on?

01:50:18.000 How you doing?

01:50:19.000 Yeah, his dick is always like, what are you doing going in there?

01:50:21.000 Wait, have you seen where his dick has been?

01:50:23.000 Can you imagine?

01:50:24.000 His dick's lucky to be alive.

01:50:25.000 Have you?

01:50:26.000 Have you?

01:50:27.000 Yes, I have.

01:50:28.000 I've seen, like, pictures.

01:50:30.000 Oh, you've been in the room.

01:50:31.000 Come on.

01:50:32.000 Fuck.

01:50:32.000 This is not the same room.

01:50:35.000 You just want to take a whole bottle of paint thinner and be like, you need to just dip in this real quick.

01:50:40.000 Did you guys see that thing?

01:50:42.000 There was a fucking guy who is a scientist for Monsanto and was trying to say that...

01:50:48.000 Pull it off of my...

01:50:50.000 My Twitter feed.

01:50:52.000 This is hilarious.

01:50:53.000 I retweeted it.

01:50:54.000 This fucking Monsanto scientist was trying to say that this pesticide was totally safe to drink.

01:51:02.000 The stuff that's in Roundup, and you could drink it and nothing would go wrong.

01:51:05.000 Neonicotinoids or whatever?

01:51:07.000 What a fucking idiot.

01:51:08.000 And so he's talking to this journalist, and the journalist goes, really?

01:51:12.000 You would drink it?

01:51:13.000 He goes, sure, I would drink it.

01:51:15.000 He goes, okay, we're going to get your glass, and you drink it.

01:51:17.000 Like, watch this.

01:51:19.000 GMO Advocate says Monsanto herbicide is safe to drink.

01:51:24.000 This is great.

01:51:27.000 That's it.

01:51:30.000 Glyphosate.

01:51:31.000 Glyphosate.

01:51:32.000 Watch this shit.

01:51:37.000 A quart?

01:51:51.000 You drink a whole quart of it and it won't hurt you.

01:51:54.000 You want to drink some?

01:51:55.000 We have some here.

01:51:56.000 I'd be happy to, actually.

01:51:58.000 Not really, but I know it wouldn't hurt me.

01:52:01.000 That's when the interviewer asked Moore to put his money where his mouth was and drink the weed killer.

01:52:06.000 Okay, then it's finished.

01:52:07.000 Then the interview is finished.

01:52:08.000 That's a good way to solve things.

01:52:13.000 He's a complete jerk?

01:52:15.000 Did you hear that?

01:52:16.000 Apparently it was more to it.

01:52:18.000 A complete jerk and French is Cunard.

01:52:20.000 Is this the one that was on my Twitter feed?

01:52:23.000 Maybe I watched more than one version of this, but the conversation lasted a little longer than that.

01:52:28.000 What a fucking dickless asshole.

01:52:30.000 Lying piece of shit.

01:52:31.000 Isn't that amazing?

01:52:32.000 It's like I would drink it.

01:52:33.000 Okay, you want to drink it?

01:52:35.000 No.

01:52:35.000 You're a complete jerk.

01:52:37.000 Complete jerk.

01:52:38.000 Cunard.

01:52:39.000 Cunard.

01:52:40.000 That guy's a doctor.

01:52:41.000 How fucking stupid can you be when you go to school, you're a doctor, you get a degree, and then you're smart enough where you get hired by Monsanto, you're smart enough where you do interviews and you're expected to be an expert, but you're so fucking stupid, you say something like,

01:52:56.000 oh, you could drink it, I would drink it.

01:52:58.000 You would drink it?

01:52:59.000 We have some.

01:52:59.000 I'll drink it.

01:53:00.000 Do you think that's stupid, or do you think he's just being a piece of shit and trying to lie for Monsanto?

01:53:04.000 I think both.

01:53:04.000 Did they go into it and go, like, we broke down the chemicals in this, it would actually be safe?

01:53:09.000 Like, did they expand that at all?

01:53:12.000 No, because a lot of those things, like, the real issue is prolonged exposure.

01:53:15.000 Like, I know a dude who has bone cancer, and he got bone cancer because his family lived near a golf course, and the golf course used a lot of pesticides, and it infected the well water.

01:53:26.000 And all the kids in the neighborhood got cancer, too.

01:53:28.000 Like, his next-door neighbor got cancer, the dude who lived across the street got cancer.

01:53:32.000 It was so important to keep that grass nice and lush, right?

01:53:35.000 I don't think they knew.

01:53:36.000 I think there's a lot of carcinogens that they knew.

01:53:38.000 I'll give them that.

01:53:39.000 Back in the day, they didn't understand how potentially hazardous long-term effects versus short-term could be.

01:53:47.000 They didn't really know how bad cigarettes were entirely at a point, but then it came a point that they did know.

01:53:53.000 I mean, cigarettes still blow me away.

01:53:55.000 Why do you add the shit in, all the poisons and stuff?

01:53:58.000 It's okay, you're inhaling smoke, which we all know is bad.

01:54:01.000 You can die from smoke inhalations, carcinogens are in there.

01:54:04.000 Fine, we got it.

01:54:05.000 Do you have to add all the other crap that's in it?

01:54:08.000 They add all the other shit.

01:54:10.000 Arsenic and all this garbage.

01:54:11.000 Just to get you more addicted.

01:54:12.000 Why don't you just give them the fucking...

01:54:14.000 Leaf.

01:54:15.000 Be it weed or be it fucking tobacco.

01:54:17.000 Just let them smoke it and let them know what's going to happen.

01:54:19.000 But you don't have to help them.

01:54:21.000 You don't have to fucking add rat poison to it.

01:54:23.000 Try American Spirits compared to a Marlboro Light.

01:54:26.000 There's a huge difference in taste and everything.

01:54:30.000 But yeah, they shouldn't do it.

01:54:32.000 Okay, so explain to us.

01:54:33.000 So you say the American Spirits taste like shit and the Marlboros taste better.

01:54:37.000 American Spirits last forever.

01:54:39.000 I mean, you can have one cigarette, it takes like 15 minutes instead of like two.

01:54:44.000 It's a harsher thing.

01:54:45.000 You wake up the next day, you're like spitting up goobers and it's really bad for you feeling body-wise.

01:54:53.000 Where at Marlboro, you can smoke a whole pack and be fine.

01:54:55.000 What about pipe smokers?

01:54:56.000 I mean, I've known...

01:54:57.000 I mean, one, that shit usually smells good around here.

01:55:00.000 Yeah, it does smell good, right?

01:55:00.000 And two, they don't...

01:55:03.000 Yeah, well Bertrand Russell, didn't he live to be like fucking 90-something?

01:55:06.000 He smoked cigarettes every day?

01:55:08.000 Or smoked a pipe every day?

01:55:11.000 You'll find people...

01:55:14.000 Anywhere, willing to, for the right amount of money, to just fucking railroad humanity.

01:55:20.000 They just will do it.

01:55:21.000 I mean, what about all these climate change fucking assholes, climate change deniers?

01:55:25.000 Yeah.

01:55:25.000 Well, it's someone to find out when they're getting paid.

01:55:27.000 It's just so shocking.

01:55:28.000 And you know what's funny is there's actually, you can go online and find all the senators and And all the congressmen that are all climate change deniers.

01:55:35.000 You can find them all.

01:55:36.000 They've listed all their names.

01:55:38.000 Well, it's not just that.

01:55:39.000 How about the different doctors that are testifying against marijuana?

01:55:42.000 You find out they're being paid by pharmaceutical companies.

01:55:45.000 This time and time again, experts have been co-opted by money.

01:55:48.000 But when you see it so clear that like this fucking guy, you could drink a whole quart of it and you'd be fine.

01:55:52.000 Okay, you want to drink it?

01:55:53.000 No, you're a complete jerk.

01:55:56.000 I wouldn't drink a whole quart of fucking Splenda.

01:56:00.000 Yeah.

01:56:01.000 And they say that's safe, right?

01:56:02.000 Which, I don't know, but I'm not going to drink a quart of it.

01:56:05.000 Yeah.

01:56:06.000 Fuck that.

01:56:07.000 If you did, you would want to throw up.

01:56:09.000 I'm sure you would.

01:56:10.000 Yeah, I mean, a quart of...

01:56:11.000 First of all, it's a powder.

01:56:13.000 You couldn't really drink a quart of it.

01:56:14.000 You could pour a quart...

01:56:16.000 The amount of liquid you would have to have to drink a quart of Splenda...

01:56:21.000 Or how about just a quart of water with an appropriately dissolved solid of Splenda within it?

01:56:30.000 I'll do it.

01:56:33.000 It would only help him.

01:56:34.000 I know.

01:56:35.000 I know.

01:56:36.000 Because, look, if you've survived all the horrible encounters you've had in your life up to this point, Brian, what's that going to do, right?

01:56:44.000 I mean, you've stared syphilis right dead in the eyes and told it to go fucking fuck off, you know?

01:56:49.000 Yeah, it's gonna kill the AIDS inside of his body.

01:56:51.000 Kill it.

01:56:52.000 Just fucking, I can't deal with this.

01:56:54.000 This is one level too far.

01:56:57.000 Yeah, I wonder if there's gonna come a time in our future where these kind of guys, these guys who are obviously bought and paid, just don't exist anymore.

01:57:06.000 How do you do that, though?

01:57:07.000 You have to make people accountable, and we don't want to seem to do that.

01:57:09.000 And then the people you would expect would make them accountable, right?

01:57:13.000 These checks and balances get put together to, well, this is to police that.

01:57:18.000 They're all fucked up, right?

01:57:20.000 I mean, how do you let the banks just rob you blind?

01:57:25.000 There's that whole LIBOR scandal where they're just fudging, fixing numbers.

01:57:28.000 And they go to Chase, and they go, well, we're going to...

01:57:31.000 We're going to fine you $12 billion.

01:57:35.000 Chase makes $45 billion a year.

01:57:38.000 It doesn't fucking matter.

01:57:39.000 You know, what they did in Vietnam was they went and they grabbed all the people, all the bankers and all the officials that fucked everybody over in terms of the banking system, and they stuck them life in prison and killed them.

01:57:53.000 Now, you have one extreme to the other.

01:57:57.000 But, nonetheless, I mean, what is worse?

01:58:02.000 Well, yeah.

01:58:02.000 I mean, there's been many bankers that have been caught that are doing things like they're laundering money for drug cartels.

01:58:09.000 I mean, that was one of the big ones that was recently exposed, that these guys were laundering money for Mexican drug cartels.

01:58:16.000 They just got a big fat fine.

01:58:19.000 Meanwhile, if it was you, like if Brian was busted laundering money for drugs, you'd be in jail for the rest of your fucking life, 100%.

01:58:26.000 They'd take all of his fucking dryers and all his whirlpools.

01:58:31.000 They'd get it, because you know he would actually...

01:58:33.000 Laundering.

01:58:33.000 No, no, he would really launder it.

01:58:35.000 Come on.

01:58:36.000 You know if Brian's like, I can do that.

01:58:38.000 He'd have an iron, ironing board.

01:58:40.000 I'll turn it to super.

01:58:41.000 I can get more money out of super.

01:58:44.000 Are you trying to say that Brian is a child?

01:58:46.000 What are you talking about?

01:58:47.000 I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, man.

01:58:49.000 I just like fucking with him because he's here.

01:58:50.000 And he never...

01:58:51.000 Every time I've been on your podcast, Brian's off in the corner doing I don't even know...

01:58:56.000 I don't want to know what...

01:58:57.000 That's why he's right next to you so he can't hide anymore.

01:58:59.000 And last time I saw him, it was at our buddy Ryan's birthday.

01:59:03.000 Or was it at the Laugh Factory or Comedy Store?

01:59:07.000 Comedy Store.

01:59:07.000 It was at the Comedy Store, but yeah.

01:59:08.000 So...

01:59:10.000 I'm always like, why don't you ever fucking...

01:59:12.000 You know me.

01:59:14.000 Why don't you hang out?

01:59:15.000 Yeah, why don't you come and hang out?

01:59:16.000 Say something.

01:59:16.000 Because he's nervous around you.

01:59:17.000 Because you're a man.

01:59:18.000 I am a man.

01:59:19.000 I need you to help me with the kind of pheromones that make other men quiver.

01:59:23.000 I need you to help me with my ground game.

01:59:25.000 And my ground game is hopscotch.

01:59:27.000 Oh, easily.

01:59:28.000 We'll go from that to fucking rubber band jump rope.

01:59:32.000 And we'll do four square after that.

01:59:35.000 That's right.

01:59:36.000 I got all the kids' games down.

01:59:37.000 Do you?

01:59:38.000 Oh yeah.

01:59:38.000 How am I supposed to meet anybody in this terrible world?

01:59:42.000 I mean, come on, online dating?

01:59:44.000 You don't online game?

01:59:47.000 I go out to the four square courts.

01:59:48.000 Online gaming seems like a better way.

01:59:50.000 That's when you find the athletes.

01:59:53.000 This fucking thing is done.

01:59:54.000 This podcast is over.

01:59:55.000 Do you want to do five minutes?

01:59:57.000 I've just listened to a lot of Jethro Tull Aqualung.

02:00:02.000 You want to do five minutes?

02:00:03.000 Do you ever want to do stand-up comedy?

02:00:05.000 I do, and here's why.

02:00:08.000 It terrifies me, Joe and Brian.

02:00:11.000 It terrifies me.

02:00:13.000 What?

02:00:14.000 You're so...

02:00:16.000 Raw and exposed up there.

02:00:19.000 When I go and I fight, I can fight for myself.

02:00:22.000 I can do it all.

02:00:24.000 My success is measured upon my end.

02:00:29.000 Did I get my hand raised or did I not get my hand raised?

02:00:31.000 When you go out on that stage, people are okay.

02:00:36.000 Make me laugh, fucker.

02:00:37.000 You're supposed to be funny, aren't you?

02:00:39.000 So, alright.

02:00:40.000 Here I am.

02:00:41.000 Or, they're like this.

02:00:43.000 I don't give a shit.

02:00:43.000 I'm talking to Brian or having a drink, whatever.

02:00:45.000 Some fucking noise off to my left.

02:00:47.000 I gotta be interesting.

02:00:50.000 I gotta do something that's going to draw their attention.

02:00:53.000 And once I've drawn it, I need to keep it.

02:00:55.000 Okay, you got me.

02:00:57.000 What?

02:00:59.000 Why should I pay attention?

02:01:00.000 And so there's this necessity to be able to get a response for them, which I understand from professional wrestling because I've been out in the ring and I listen to the crowd and I see what works and what doesn't work.

02:01:11.000 And so I have an understanding, I feel, and from being around yourself and other, you know, I've...

02:01:17.000 Not like I talk about it a lot, but I've hung out with quite a few comedians and been there backstage for their shows and fucking around warming up and doing all this stuff.

02:01:25.000 But I look at it and I go, this is not just cracking jokes and making people laugh.

02:01:30.000 And it is okay to bomb because you're going to.

02:01:32.000 You're always going to fail.

02:01:34.000 But it's just such a raw...

02:01:38.000 My personal experience to a degree, to me, is just frightening.

02:01:42.000 Utterly frightening.

02:01:43.000 Yeah, you should definitely do it then.

02:01:45.000 Do it tonight.

02:01:45.000 It's not that hard.

02:01:46.000 No, don't listen to him.

02:01:48.000 If you're going to do it, you should plan it out.

02:01:50.000 I agree.

02:01:51.000 You should definitely think about it and write some stuff down.

02:01:53.000 I listen to things that you've said before about being a comedian, from documentary stuff and things that I've seen of you, and I have...

02:02:10.000 Why don't you do it?

02:02:11.000 Go to an open mic night.

02:02:12.000 Don't do it at a regular show.

02:02:13.000 He's trying to get you to do one of his shows.

02:02:15.000 Don't do it.

02:02:17.000 Don't do it.

02:02:18.000 No, you should go to a regular open mic night, like whether at the Comedy Store or wherever.

02:02:23.000 You know, just do five minutes or whatever.

02:02:26.000 What do they give you, three minutes at the store?

02:02:27.000 Three minutes, or you can do one minute on Kill Tony and we can help you out.

02:02:30.000 Don't do it.

02:02:30.000 I don't know about that.

02:02:31.000 Don't do it.

02:02:32.000 They'll put it on the internet.

02:02:33.000 And sometimes, I'll be honest, Joe, the shit that I want to say, probably not good for the rest of what I'm trying to accomplish.

02:02:45.000 Nah.

02:02:45.000 I disagree.

02:02:46.000 I don't know.

02:02:47.000 In what way?

02:02:48.000 How would it hurt you?

02:02:49.000 I just...

02:02:50.000 Really dark, weird, fucked up shit comes out of my mouth.

02:02:54.000 Like, give me an example.

02:02:56.000 No?

02:02:57.000 No.

02:02:58.000 Okay.

02:02:58.000 No, but you can ask...

02:03:01.000 So I did this thing before MMA Roasted was anything, right?

02:03:05.000 They wanted to shoot a sizzle, send it off to Spike.

02:03:09.000 They wanted to make a show.

02:03:11.000 An actual show where you do a panel and all this stuff.

02:03:14.000 So Adam and...

02:03:20.000 Oh my god, why am I forgetting everybody's name right now?

02:03:24.000 God damn it.

02:03:25.000 T-Rex.

02:03:25.000 So T-Rex hits me up and goes, come on out.

02:03:26.000 Come out and do this thing.

02:03:28.000 All right.

02:03:29.000 What is it?

02:03:30.000 Okay.

02:03:30.000 I'll come sit around and you guys are going to probably try and talk shit to me and talk about my past and fuck with me and say steroids and whatever, but I don't give a fuck.

02:03:37.000 So I come out.

02:03:39.000 And they have this green screen thing set up in this deal, and Adam does some monologue spots, and then he gets to the panel, we talk about whatever's going on in MMA, and then we can fucking step off in any direction we want and have fun.

02:03:53.000 And then he'll do a one-on-one.

02:03:56.000 Where he and whoever the guest is of the week will sit there and Adam's just basically gonna fuck with you the whole time.

02:04:03.000 So I come in, I sit down on this panel thing and they're filming all of this.

02:04:08.000 So it's T-Rex is to my left, me, this female comedian who I don't really know, and Adam.

02:04:14.000 And then we just sit there and we start talking and I just start saying shit.

02:04:17.000 One, the female comedian immediately gets really upset.

02:04:20.000 What were you saying?

02:04:22.000 T-Rex can't stop laughing, neither can Adam.

02:04:24.000 And then I keep picking on fucking T-Rex the whole time about his clothing line at every point available.

02:04:31.000 Then we go and we do the sit-down with me and Adam, and then I take it from him, and then I just start making him laugh and saying really weird shit and completely throwing him for a loop.

02:04:42.000 And I just said to him at the end of the day, I go, that was a lot of fun.

02:04:46.000 This has never seen the light of day, right?

02:04:48.000 Yeah.

02:04:48.000 No, no, no.

02:04:49.000 It's just good.

02:04:50.000 Well, what were you saying?

02:04:52.000 Nah.

02:04:53.000 You didn't want to talk about it.

02:04:54.000 No.

02:04:55.000 But it was funny.

02:04:56.000 Well, they thought it was funny at the time.

02:04:58.000 I thought it was funny.

02:04:58.000 But I've said a lot of fucked up things.

02:05:00.000 You can say those things because there's an accepted...

02:05:05.000 You're Joe Rogan, the comedian.

02:05:06.000 You're Joe Rogan, who talks about DMT, talks about marijuana and aliens and all kinds of stuff, and we accept that, and you're an established person within the fan base that you have, and you're a known commodity.

02:05:25.000 Fear Factor.

02:05:30.000 Fear Factor.

02:05:36.000 All these other things where people will see, hey, Joe Rogan, he's a comedian, maybe we've seen some of his stand-up, maybe not, but we know him as a personality on television.

02:05:44.000 So you know him fucking around, whereas with you they might just think you're a psychopath.

02:05:48.000 No, and I'm an athlete, and I'm supposed to be this and I'm supposed to be that.

02:05:51.000 And so if I make off-color jokes that are...

02:05:56.000 It's like, oh, that's too far.

02:05:58.000 But what happens when you retire from fighting?

02:05:59.000 How many more years?

02:06:00.000 How old are you now?

02:06:01.000 36?

02:06:02.000 37. 37. How many more years do you think you'll be competing?

02:06:04.000 Ah, until I'm done.

02:06:05.000 Until you're done.

02:06:06.000 Until I'm done.

02:06:07.000 Because, like I said before about that athletic window, so...

02:06:12.000 Joe Rogan has, you know, this whole part of his whole career is stand-up.

02:06:16.000 Very stand-up oriented and specific.

02:06:19.000 And then, boom, he moves into movies.

02:06:20.000 And then maybe he goes from there into politics.

02:06:23.000 I mean, the thing is that you can enter any kind of line you want, but those things are not incumbent on your physicality.

02:06:30.000 What they are, it's your mind, it's your ability to use.

02:06:33.000 Fighting, physicality, anything athletic-wise, you have so long to do it.

02:06:38.000 And that's it.

02:06:39.000 When that opportunity is passed, you cannot do it anymore.

02:06:43.000 Now maybe, you know, you could say, okay, well, Joe went for the U.S. national team for Taekwondo to go to win that and then go win the world team trials and go to the Olympics.

02:06:54.000 Going to the Olympics is a short time.

02:06:57.000 Opportunity in life.

02:06:58.000 Once you get past that point to where you can be competitive at that, that doesn't mean you can't do Taekwondo anymore, it wouldn't mean that you couldn't do other tournaments, but trying to be the Olympic champion in Taekwondo, it's like, well, that one's gone.

02:07:12.000 That opportunity has passed me.

02:07:13.000 For me, when that opportunity for me to be a successful high-level fighter is gone, it's gone.

02:07:20.000 It's just, that's it.

02:07:21.000 It's over with.

02:07:22.000 So you just have to personally assess when you feel like your body's not performing the way you expect it to.

02:07:27.000 Exactly.

02:07:28.000 But right now you're cool with it.

02:07:29.000 Right now I'm cool.

02:07:29.000 Right now I know I can do a lot better than my last fight for sure.

02:07:34.000 Why did you decide to take so much time off between your last fight and now?

02:07:37.000 I wasn't into my last fight, to be honest.

02:07:39.000 I didn't care.

02:07:40.000 I just wasn't up for it.

02:07:42.000 I trained and I got to a point where I'm just like, I'm over this.

02:07:46.000 You're over it.

02:07:47.000 Burned out?

02:07:48.000 Who's this guy?

02:07:49.000 Who's Travis Brown, really?

02:07:50.000 Yeah, but it's just like, okay, if I beat him, what does that do?

02:07:53.000 Well, he's a top five fighter.

02:07:55.000 So what?

02:07:55.000 Then I get to fight another guy and fight another guy and fight another guy until it's like, well, where am I going with this?

02:08:01.000 I'm in the grind.

02:08:03.000 I'm not going to climb this fucking ladder to prove that I deserve to fight for a title.

02:08:07.000 I can fight for a title against anyone in any league, anywhere, anytime.

02:08:12.000 I'm a championship, world champion level guy.

02:08:15.000 I don't need to prove that I belong here.

02:08:18.000 I've fought Travis Brown's all my career.

02:08:21.000 They just had a different name at a different point in life.

02:08:23.000 They had the same type of skill set.

02:08:25.000 They're basically the same guy.

02:08:26.000 There'll be another Travis Brown when Travis Brown is done being Travis Brown.

02:08:31.000 So, what are you trying to say?

02:08:32.000 That the only thing that would get you up is to fight for a title?

02:08:36.000 Not necessarily, but just, I gotta fight when it makes sense to me.

02:08:39.000 I gotta fight when I'm motivated to do so.

02:08:41.000 I'm not looking to try and say, alright, throw me in there with all these other fucking...

02:08:48.000 Goofballs and let us just beat each other's heads in until we try to prove that we belong here.

02:08:53.000 Does that just signify the final chapter of your athletic career then?

02:08:56.000 Because a guy like Travis Brown, if you were coming up, you would relish the opportunity to fight a top five guy.

02:09:03.000 Sure.

02:09:03.000 So is it because you're just very established, you've been around a long time?

02:09:06.000 I've learned that I don't need to prove myself in that way.

02:09:13.000 I've been a top ten fighter for over a decade.

02:09:16.000 I've been top five for over a decade most of the time.

02:09:18.000 So whether or not someone ranks me wherever they rank me, it doesn't really matter.

02:09:23.000 I can step in there and do the job.

02:09:27.000 This next fight might be against Roy, which is fine.

02:09:29.000 But if the next fight is, we want you to fight Kane, or Vudum, or whoever, like, let's go.

02:09:34.000 I'm fucking ready to do it.

02:09:35.000 But did you feel that when you fought Frank Mir?

02:09:37.000 Yes.

02:09:38.000 When I fought Frank Mir, I was fucking pumped.

02:09:41.000 Because, for one, I've been told...

02:09:44.000 Oh, I'd hear all these people, we think it's going to be such a tough fight, and Frank Mir, he's the best submission guy.

02:09:51.000 Or back when I was in the UFC, and Frank was just coming up, they're like, oh, this guy's the future, he's the best, he's going to be the greatest.

02:09:59.000 And always hearing all this stuff about how Frank Mir is my equal or better.

02:10:03.000 And I'm just like, this shit is over with.

02:10:07.000 This is not, I'm going to show you the difference between us.

02:10:10.000 Between him and me.

02:10:11.000 So you were excited about him.

02:10:13.000 That was a very important fight for you.

02:10:14.000 Yes.

02:10:15.000 Travis Brown wasn't.

02:10:16.000 Didn't care.

02:10:17.000 Wow, that's kind of crazy.

02:10:18.000 Yeah.

02:10:19.000 But I guess that's a personal thing, right?

02:10:21.000 Your own personal motivation.

02:10:23.000 Like, the only person who could decide what fights you're up for and what fights you're not are you.

02:10:28.000 That's true.

02:10:28.000 Would you be up for a rematch?

02:10:30.000 Like, if they offered you a rematch with Travis?

02:10:32.000 But here's the difference.

02:10:33.000 If I fight Travis now, I'm going to want to fucking take his head off.

02:10:36.000 Because he disrespected me in the ring after the match.

02:10:39.000 He did all this fucking shit.

02:10:41.000 What did he do?

02:10:42.000 He fucking cut his throat.

02:10:43.000 He did all this stuff.

02:10:44.000 But don't you do that too?

02:10:45.000 You do that all the time after you win.

02:10:47.000 That's my thing.

02:10:47.000 He did it to mock me for winning.

02:10:49.000 And I'm just like, dude, I've been nice to you and respectful to you from day one.

02:10:54.000 And then you go ahead and you go and you get a win on me?

02:10:56.000 Great.

02:10:58.000 This is your moment to say what you want to say and what you want to do is to try and fucking put me down after you win.

02:11:04.000 So you feel like by him doing the thumb across the neck thing...

02:11:07.000 Yeah, and apparently he was very dismissive of me in interviews and all that shit.

02:11:11.000 And I'm like, wow, that's cool.

02:11:12.000 Pre or post fight?

02:11:13.000 Post.

02:11:14.000 All post.

02:11:15.000 Everything is post.

02:11:16.000 Everything was post.

02:11:17.000 And I didn't find out about this shit until way after the fact.

02:11:19.000 I actually saw him backstage and come up and shook his hand and said, all right, you know, hey, this was your night.

02:11:24.000 Me, I don't have any reason to be a fucking prick, especially after I win.

02:11:28.000 But, you know what?

02:11:29.000 A guy wins.

02:11:30.000 He feels like he's on top of the world.

02:11:32.000 You know what?

02:11:33.000 That's when you're going to say some shit like that.

02:11:35.000 That's when you're going to act out.

02:11:36.000 And then, fuck, I'm just like, alright, cool.

02:11:40.000 If that's the way it's going to be, awesome.

02:11:42.000 If we rematch, it's not going to be the same dude you fought that night.

02:11:45.000 You have no idea.

02:11:46.000 You really don't get it.

02:11:48.000 You will get your ass handed to you.

02:11:51.000 Because now you gave me a reason to want to kick your ass.

02:11:53.000 And what would be the difference between the way you would perform in this fight and the way you performed in the first fight?

02:11:58.000 Look, for one, I would make him pay for all the big mistakes he makes all the time.

02:12:03.000 Like what big mistakes?

02:12:04.000 He's constantly whiffing, throwing the biggest shots.

02:12:07.000 That kid has no stamina because he will always go for the kill in everything he does.

02:12:12.000 Now, that makes him very dangerous to a heavyweight especially because he's athletic and he's got some power.

02:12:18.000 But that's why Verdom took him out.

02:12:20.000 Because he's missing with all this big shit and he's getting picked apart and picked apart and picked apart and hung on and hung on and grabbed and separated and picked apart and picked apart.

02:12:28.000 I mean, why is Verdun beating you on the feet?

02:12:32.000 Well, he broke his hand early in the first round, too.

02:12:35.000 That's one of the reasons why.

02:12:36.000 Well, it's also because he's trying to swing for the fences constantly.

02:12:42.000 That's why he's gassed in every one of his big fights.

02:12:45.000 Any fight that's got any kind of distance to it, he's gassed.

02:12:48.000 Why?

02:12:49.000 Because that's the type of fighter he is.

02:12:51.000 Does that make him a bad fighter?

02:12:53.000 Not necessarily.

02:12:54.000 I would say it doesn't.

02:12:55.000 It's just, that's who he is.

02:12:56.000 He's a fucking wild man.

02:12:58.000 But that's also why I think he will never be a UFC champion.

02:13:02.000 Because there's a finesse that he doesn't possess.

02:13:05.000 But don't you think that's something you can learn?

02:13:07.000 I mean, he's a guy who's still sort of evolving as a fighter.

02:13:10.000 Has he?

02:13:11.000 Well, he came into MMA fairly late.

02:13:13.000 He was a basketball player.

02:13:15.000 Well, I mean, time will tell.

02:13:16.000 It's up to him, really.

02:13:18.000 You've got a personal thing with him.

02:13:19.000 Well, but here, I'm being objective.

02:13:21.000 And that is, it's up to him.

02:13:24.000 If he wants to make those decisions, if he wants to change his game, if he wants to add different aspects to it, I mean, all fighters are the true architects of their own design.

02:13:35.000 The coaches can help.

02:13:37.000 Edmund can help him in one way and show him how to strike...

02:13:58.000 I like what he has to teach.

02:14:01.000 I also don't believe that at Greggs that there was any lack of striking, quality striking training.

02:14:09.000 I'm not going to say that Edmonds' striking training is going to be better than whatever was Jackson's.

02:14:13.000 I'm going to say it's different.

02:14:15.000 I'm sure, and I know it's good, but I'm pretty sure that Jackson's was good too.

02:14:19.000 And to make that change, I mean, only he knows specifically why he decided to change camps.

02:14:25.000 But...

02:14:26.000 In my opinion, it's not about being here or there.

02:14:30.000 It's about what he does to affect his game.

02:14:34.000 It's what changes he decides to make in his own head, the way he approaches his training, and how he tries to take what he's learning and apply it to what he does already.

02:14:44.000 And apply it in different ways.

02:14:46.000 That's what it comes down to.

02:14:48.000 I think Edmund has given him more individualized attention and really focusing on him as an athlete because he only has a small, stable of fighters.

02:14:56.000 Maybe.

02:14:57.000 But in the end, coaches lay the foundation.

02:15:02.000 They point you in the right direction.

02:15:04.000 But athletes take that information and they make the most of it.

02:15:10.000 How much time in a day can you spend with that coach?

02:15:13.000 Only so much.

02:15:14.000 It's the time that you're not spending with them that really makes a big difference.

02:15:18.000 How do you take what they gave you?

02:15:21.000 How are you working on that when you're not in the gym?

02:15:23.000 How are you thinking about it?

02:15:24.000 How are you breaking down your strengths and your weaknesses and dealing with those?

02:15:28.000 How are you then coming back to the gym?

02:15:33.000 With that knowledge.

02:15:34.000 And then training the next day.

02:15:36.000 How are you setting your mind for training that day?

02:15:40.000 You know, you could have the worst day in the world, but if your jab got better, so what?

02:15:44.000 Right.

02:15:44.000 It's a success.

02:15:45.000 Does it bug you, that fight, like, if you, you know, you look back and the fact that you didn't get up for it and you had that result?

02:15:53.000 Yes, of course it bugs me.

02:15:55.000 Just as Travis is bugged from losing his fight versus Verdum.

02:16:00.000 Because he had an opportunity to fight for the title after that, I'm sure, is the way he saw it.

02:16:05.000 And he lost his opportunity.

02:16:06.000 He may feel it was because of his hand or when he got kicked in the rib or whatever.

02:16:11.000 It doesn't really matter what it was.

02:16:13.000 We lost.

02:16:14.000 We lost in these moments.

02:16:16.000 And as a fighter, you always should...

02:16:19.000 That's something...

02:16:21.000 That I know when I don't care if I lost or not, that's when I should stop fighting.

02:16:26.000 I cared.

02:16:28.000 I cared that I lost.

02:16:29.000 I cared a lot more when I got disrespected over it, which I felt was completely unnecessary.

02:16:35.000 That just sucked.

02:16:36.000 That was like, wow, wow, why?

02:16:38.000 Why did you have to do that?

02:16:40.000 So if you have a hard time getting up for Travis, why do you not have a hard time getting up for Roy Nelson?

02:16:45.000 Because...

02:16:47.000 For one, I've had some time to just do other stuff and get that fire wanting to get back in the ring.

02:16:54.000 Two, I'm looking at fighting Roy as fighting Roy.

02:16:57.000 I'm not looking at fighting Roy as I'm fighting Roy so that I can prove that I can fight Joe Smith next so that I can fight whoever and then get a title shot.

02:17:07.000 I'm not doing that.

02:17:08.000 I'm fighting Roy because I'm fighting Roy.

02:17:10.000 Me and Roy are going to fight.

02:17:12.000 So you have a different mindset than you had before the Travis fight.

02:17:15.000 Absolutely.

02:17:15.000 And...

02:17:17.000 With Roy, he's been around a very long time himself, and so I've heard things here and there.

02:17:23.000 You know, Roy one time was on a big rant online on Twitter about people being ranked over him, and why is that?

02:17:31.000 So he's arguing with all these MMA journalists.

02:17:33.000 And then he starts adding my name into it, like literally putting my handle, and I'm just like, Why do you give a fuck about and my only response was you know fine He wants to talk about how he thinks he's better than me or whatever who cares My only response was who gives a shit what other people think about you?

02:17:49.000 Why are you even including me in this?

02:17:51.000 It doesn't matter with anything He's just trying to drum up fight and whatever it doesn't matter looks at the list of potential opponents feels he matches up well with you throw your name into the mix use your your at Josh L Barnett and you know at the time I don't even think I was in the UFC so it's not like we could have fought anyways Well,

02:18:07.000 he probably knew you were coming over from Strikeforce, right?

02:18:10.000 Who knows?

02:18:11.000 I mean, everybody thought you were coming over if you could work out the deal.

02:18:13.000 I mean, you were always a top-level guy.

02:18:15.000 Right.

02:18:16.000 Someone that a lot of different fighters wanted to have as a potential high-marquee name.

02:18:23.000 It wasn't that long ago that anybody ever started actually calling me out.

02:18:27.000 Like, most of my career, no one's ever said, I want to fight that guy.

02:18:32.000 So what do you attribute it to?

02:18:33.000 Oh, I'm older.

02:18:35.000 I had a bad loss my last match.

02:18:36.000 You know, maybe they think that they see it's more worthwhile to do that.

02:18:40.000 But even guys that had gotten wins over me went through fucking hell to do it.

02:18:44.000 So they're just like, yeah, doesn't make sense.

02:18:48.000 I don't blame him.

02:18:49.000 I mean, if I see a guy, if I have a fighter and I can avoid having a fight that's winnable but it's going to be fucking really tough, I would try not to make that fight happen.

02:19:00.000 I would try to get him a fight where it may be...

02:19:05.000 A more dangerous fight, but much more skews in the way of once you get going, you can put him away, but you gotta watch out because this guy can put you away versus this guy's gonna make you fight and scratch and claw for every inch of every second of this fucking match,

02:19:22.000 whether he's winning or he's losing.

02:19:23.000 He'll just never fucking quit.

02:19:25.000 And that's you.

02:19:26.000 Yeah.

02:19:26.000 And that's you.

02:19:27.000 I break my hand in 23 seconds fighting Cormier, and I still hit him with it.

02:19:32.000 You know what I mean?

02:19:34.000 And this is the type of fight that you think would be that kind of dogfight, you and Roy.

02:19:39.000 Yeah.

02:19:39.000 Well, he's hard to put away.

02:19:41.000 He is hard to put away.

02:19:42.000 I'm a finisher.

02:19:42.000 Jesus Christ, his fight with Alistair over him was crazy to watch.

02:19:46.000 I didn't see it, but I heard this.

02:19:48.000 He'd eat those kicks to the body.

02:19:50.000 Saw walk!

02:19:51.000 Saw walk!

02:19:52.000 You know, Alistair was just laying into him.

02:19:54.000 He head kicked him.

02:19:56.000 He kicked the shit out of his legs, and Roy just keeps coming forward.

02:20:00.000 Alistair says it was like the Incredible Hulk.

02:20:02.000 He's got angrier and angrier.

02:20:03.000 He's got angrier and angrier.

02:20:03.000 You see his eyes get crazy.

02:20:06.000 He's a wild motherfucker, Roy.

02:20:07.000 Yeah.

02:20:08.000 Hard to believe that he didn't even start striking training until 2009. That's when he started striking training.

02:20:12.000 That's not true.

02:20:13.000 That's what he said.

02:20:14.000 Well, he had a kung fu background, too.

02:20:17.000 Did he really?

02:20:18.000 Yes.

02:20:19.000 I mean, but what is that?

02:20:21.000 Look, he knew about throwing a punch.

02:20:23.000 Like this?

02:20:24.000 I saw him overhand right a guy and knock him out in Costa Rica.

02:20:28.000 Really?

02:20:29.000 Oh, yeah.

02:20:29.000 Costa Rica?

02:20:30.000 Yep.

02:20:30.000 You guys drunk?

02:20:34.000 What happened?

02:20:34.000 Well, we were hired to go down there to provide protection for somebody.

02:20:39.000 No, I'm just kidding.

02:20:40.000 Well, what was it?

02:20:41.000 Bodog.

02:20:41.000 Oh, Bodog.

02:20:42.000 It was Bodog, and he was fighting, oh, 2007, 8?

02:20:48.000 Bodog was a fucking interesting little scenario, wasn't it?

02:20:51.000 I actually really liked watching it because their production, in terms of...

02:20:58.000 Setting up each individual fight.

02:21:00.000 By the way, which is funny because my buddy Clint Dahl did this We're good to go.

02:21:29.000 And then they're going to prepackage it to go sell it elsewhere.

02:21:33.000 He set up roving cams, hard cams.

02:21:36.000 He set up all this stuff.

02:21:37.000 He had all these people just show up as extras to just stand around, which I guess you were there hanging out too.

02:21:43.000 They ordered pizzas for people to eat at one point.

02:21:46.000 And they called this thing a production, you know, in terms of...

02:21:50.000 It's a film.

02:21:51.000 Yeah, it's a film.

02:21:51.000 It's a movie.

02:21:52.000 Yep.

02:21:52.000 So they had these people fight, pretending that it was like acting.

02:21:55.000 Yeah.

02:21:56.000 Meanwhile, they were fighting.

02:21:57.000 For real.

02:21:58.000 Yeah, but they just had it...

02:21:59.000 Well, it's acting.

02:22:01.000 They're sparring as actors or something.

02:22:03.000 Yeah.

02:22:04.000 They tried some wacky loophole.

02:22:06.000 And it worked.

02:22:07.000 And so...

02:22:07.000 Didn't they get in trouble, though?

02:22:09.000 I don't think so.

02:22:09.000 It's just that it never went anywhere.

02:22:11.000 To my understanding, Sally was supposed to get it to the Fox people...

02:22:15.000 And I don't know what happened there.

02:22:18.000 It never took off.

02:22:19.000 Either way, one, a lot of people got their start there.

02:22:23.000 And nobody even knows it.

02:22:25.000 And two, what they did is the way they filmed all the fighters.

02:22:29.000 They had all of their bios, these backstories.

02:22:32.000 They had Mike, what's his face, Mike Seal from New Mexico, who was a bank robber in Mexico.

02:22:39.000 And he got in trouble for that.

02:22:41.000 So there's all these stories about these guys.

02:22:43.000 And so how Bodog got a hold, they used the same format partially because one of the dudes that was producing Bodog had Venom from way back in the day and basically just took the whole concept of how they would produce it and used it for Bodog.

02:23:00.000 Well, Bodog, they would put on fights on the beach in Costa Rica with all these hot chicks around.

02:23:05.000 Yep.

02:23:05.000 Best ring girls just about ever.

02:23:06.000 Oh, my God.

02:23:07.000 It was amazing.

02:23:07.000 Was that pay-per-view?

02:23:08.000 I can't remember.

02:23:09.000 I remember watching.

02:23:10.000 It was on TV. They were on TV. It was on TV. So they shot it as a TV product.

02:23:14.000 They would shoot all these fights over four days, and then they would chop it up into TV episodes.

02:23:21.000 It looked really fucking cool.

02:23:23.000 Did they just run out of money?

02:23:25.000 Basically, there was a lot of people involved in Bodog that were basically just robbing the coffers while the king sleeps.

02:23:31.000 They were just running it dry, thinking it was just going to be a failure.

02:23:34.000 Just get all you can while you can and just fuck it over, and they did.

02:23:39.000 They used to do those billboards.

02:23:41.000 Calvin Iyer presents Bodog.

02:23:43.000 Bodog fights on a throne.

02:23:45.000 It'd be him with a beautiful suit on, his face.

02:23:49.000 Nobody's Buying the fights to look at you?

02:23:51.000 It didn't make any sense.

02:23:52.000 It was such a vanity project.

02:23:54.000 It was definitely retarded in that way.

02:23:56.000 But Roy was down there.

02:23:58.000 He fought Mario Rinaldi.

02:24:00.000 Knocked him out with an overhand right?

02:24:02.000 Well, he always could punch.

02:24:03.000 I just don't think he was training it.

02:24:05.000 Well, according to him.

02:24:06.000 I don't buy that.

02:24:08.000 He also used to weigh like...

02:24:11.000 220, 215, and he beat Frank Mir in a grappling contest.

02:24:14.000 Remember that?

02:24:15.000 Yeah, what happened with him?

02:24:16.000 Mir was all over him like fucking white on rice.

02:24:19.000 Got tired.

02:24:19.000 Got tired, and then Roy just outscored him.

02:24:22.000 But what happened?

02:24:22.000 What did Roy do that made him gain all that weight and keep it on while he's getting in shape?

02:24:28.000 That's what I understand.

02:24:29.000 I don't think it's not what he did.

02:24:30.000 It's what he never stopped doing, you know?

02:24:32.000 I don't...

02:24:33.000 I just don't know how you could be in good enough shape where you can go three hard five minute rounds and not lose that gut.

02:24:41.000 I don't know.

02:24:42.000 You gotta fuel that gut.

02:24:43.000 That gut has gotta be...

02:24:44.000 He's working on that thing.

02:24:46.000 Maybe there's a little fusion engine inside that.

02:24:51.000 It just keeps them going.

02:24:52.000 Well, there's a lot of padding, I'll tell you that.

02:24:53.000 Because he ate those fucking Alistair Overeem body kicks.

02:24:55.000 I don't even think that padding can make that big.

02:24:58.000 That's just being strong and tough.

02:25:01.000 Tough as shit.

02:25:02.000 Yeah.

02:25:03.000 Well, that would be a good fight, man.

02:25:04.000 I would like to see that fight.

02:25:05.000 I think so, too.

02:25:06.000 I think it'll be entertaining.

02:25:07.000 If it'll actually happen yet.

02:25:09.000 I think it will, but yeah, we'll have to see once we have paperwork and we have wet ink.

02:25:13.000 Wet ink.

02:25:14.000 Wet ink.

02:25:15.000 Wet works.

02:25:16.000 All right, we gotta get the fuck out of here.

02:25:18.000 Josh L. Barnett on Twitter.

02:25:21.000 Anything else you want to tell the fine people about before we get the fuck out about this bitch?

02:25:26.000 Check me out on Axis for New Japan Pro Wrestling.

02:25:27.000 Are you still doing your podcast?

02:25:29.000 No, I am not.

02:25:31.000 Couldn't do it the way I wanted to do it, so I said, if that's not capable, then I'm just not going to do it.

02:25:36.000 Let's just do it on your own.

02:25:37.000 Do it the way you want to do it.

02:25:38.000 It's a lot of fucking work, dude.

02:25:40.000 You should know.

02:25:40.000 Listen, man, this is all you need.

02:25:42.000 Get a phone.

02:25:43.000 Start talking into it.

02:25:44.000 Talk shit.

02:25:46.000 Upload it online.

02:25:47.000 Call it the Josh Barnett Podcast.

02:25:48.000 Take it from there.

02:25:49.000 Yeah, you know, I did some good things on it, but it wasn't...

02:25:53.000 There was a lot of stuff that just wasn't allowing it to really be what it could be.

02:25:57.000 All things in their own time, my friend.

02:26:00.000 All things in their own time.

02:26:02.000 Josh L. Barnett, motherfuckers.

02:26:05.000 Watch him.

02:26:06.000 Metamorris.

02:26:06.000 It'll be May 9th.

02:26:08.000 May 9th.

02:26:09.000 Really interesting.

02:26:10.000 Against Cyborg.

02:26:11.000 How do you say his last name?

02:26:12.000 Abreu.

02:26:13.000 I've only seen it written.

02:26:14.000 I've never actually said it.

02:26:15.000 Abreu.

02:26:16.000 I've heard it that way.

02:26:17.000 Either way, he's an amazing jiu-jitsu fighter.

02:26:19.000 It'll be a fantastic match.

02:26:20.000 Josh Barnett, ladies and gentlemen.

02:26:22.000 Anything going on you got?

02:26:23.000 420 Vancouver just went on sale today.

02:26:25.000 And Secret Show next week with Tom Segura, Christina Pajiski, and Steve Agee and a bunch of people at the Comedy Store.

02:26:30.000 And you've got something in San Francisco and Sacramento coming up.

02:26:34.000 San Francisco, Sacramento, next month or May.

02:26:37.000 All these tickets.

02:26:38.000 Is it called Sticky Icky or Purple Nurple?

02:26:41.000 Nah.

02:26:41.000 It's called Suck It, Bitch.

02:26:43.000 But we're going to be at the punchline, me and Tony.

02:26:44.000 Oh, and I am at the Ka Theater at Mandalay Bay, or at the MGM, rather.

02:26:51.000 That is...

02:26:52.000 Is that May?

02:26:53.000 When the fuck is that?

02:26:54.000 Yes, it is.

02:26:55.000 It's May...

02:26:57.000 20...

02:26:59.000 shit.

02:26:59.000 What date is that?

02:27:00.000 May 22nd?

02:27:01.000 May 22nd.

02:27:03.000 It's my anniversary.

02:27:03.000 Tom Segura.

02:27:04.000 May 22nd, MGM, the Ka Theater with Tom Segura and Tony Hinchcliffe.

02:27:09.000 Holla!

02:27:10.000 All right, my friends.

02:27:11.000 That's it for this week.

02:27:12.000 See you soon.

02:27:13.000 Bye-bye.

02:27:13.000 Big kiss.

02:27:14.000 Thank you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 27, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #631 - Josh Barnett

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