The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #662

00:00:00.000 Alright, we're live.

00:00:01.000 Alright, ladies and gentlemen, Vinnie Shorman.

00:00:02.000 How are you, buddy?

00:00:03.000 Hello, I'm fine.

00:00:04.000 How are you?

00:00:04.000 Good, good.

00:00:05.000 Pull that mic up.

00:00:07.000 Get it right up there.

00:00:07.000 Okay.

00:00:10.000 We just did a hypno-session.

00:00:13.000 How would you call it?

00:00:14.000 Hypnotic session?

00:00:15.000 No, just say it's a session, really.

00:00:16.000 Hypnosis?

00:00:16.000 Yeah.

00:00:16.000 Just a session?

00:00:17.000 Stuff.

00:00:18.000 Mind stuff.

00:00:18.000 Mental training, mind stuff.

00:00:21.000 Vinny is the man that Joe Schilling had experienced some fantastic results doing this with you.

00:00:29.000 Joe Schilling, who's the...

00:00:31.000 World champion kickboxer, Bellator fighter, a guy who's been in here before.

00:00:36.000 And he told me about you, and you and I went back and forth on Twitter and email, and then we finally got together today and did a hypnosis session.

00:00:44.000 And I'm here to tell you, hypnosis is real.

00:00:48.000 You definitely go under.

00:00:50.000 If something happens, you go to some weird dream state la-la land.

00:00:53.000 How long was I under for?

00:00:55.000 Four and a half days.

00:00:58.000 To be honest about I'd say 20 minutes 20 minutes maybe 20 minutes 30 minutes Yeah, okay.

00:01:05.000 I kind of get lost in it too.

00:01:06.000 You know it seems like it seemed like five No, it was longer than that.

00:01:10.000 Yeah It was like I remember the beginning part and then all sudden it was over I was like whoa and there was some weird Dream state stuff going on in the middle where you were talking about some things, but I was thinking about other shit But when I was thinking about shit,

00:01:26.000 I was like, wow, I'm in a weird state of mind right now while I'm thinking about these other things.

00:01:30.000 I better get back on track about what Vinny's talking about.

00:01:33.000 You know, I think it's funny because everything that I do with my clients and you've experienced, I've experienced, and you put it right, it is weird.

00:01:42.000 But it's weird because it works.

00:01:44.000 It definitely works.

00:01:45.000 Well, there's different states that the brain operates in.

00:01:50.000 We all know that.

00:01:50.000 There's states when you're stressed out.

00:01:52.000 There's states when you're super happy.

00:01:54.000 There's states when you're very focused.

00:01:55.000 There's states when you're in danger.

00:01:57.000 There's states when you're in love.

00:01:58.000 And we all know that these are weird places that your brain can go to.

00:02:03.000 Weird frequencies or weird vibrations or whatever you would call it.

00:02:08.000 To be able to manipulate it like that, to be able to put someone into a state like that, or help them, assist them getting into a state like that, that's a very unique skill.

00:02:21.000 Yeah, I mean, all hypnosis is self-hypnosis anyway.

00:02:24.000 So, you do it.

00:02:26.000 I just guide you into it, you know, and give you ways of just going into...

00:02:32.000 Hypnosis is a natural state.

00:02:33.000 Like we said, I was talking earlier, like, you know, you're driving and all of a sudden you end up there and you think, shit, how did I get there?

00:02:40.000 I don't do that because I'm rubbish at driving.

00:02:42.000 But, you know, other things where you just...

00:02:44.000 It just seems...

00:02:45.000 Televisions, hypnosis, music's hypnosis.

00:02:49.000 They're all different states and we're all in...

00:02:50.000 At different states all the time.

00:02:52.000 So, like a movie that just captures you and you don't even realise you're watching it.

00:02:57.000 You're just totally captivated.

00:02:59.000 You're inside.

00:03:00.000 You're completely absorbed in the film.

00:03:04.000 That's almost like a hypnotic state.

00:03:05.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:03:06.000 I mean, you know, clapping for Superman, for instance.

00:03:09.000 We know Superman doesn't exist, unfortunately.

00:03:12.000 Sorry to break anyone's hearts out there that loves Superman.

00:03:15.000 But, you know, it's just a part and parcel of using your imagination to get you to a place where you want to change.

00:03:23.000 But that state that you achieve when you hypnotize someone, when you put someone in this really relaxed place and you have them focus on very specific things and you get them to this weird state where your mind drifts off into that dreamland,

00:03:42.000 that's very different than a movie or very different than driving home in your car.

00:03:46.000 It's pretty intense.

00:03:49.000 Yeah, it is.

00:03:51.000 They're all imaginative processes, anyway, you know?

00:03:54.000 They're all imaginative processes.

00:03:55.000 But with hypnosis, you're focusing on a specific problem, normally.

00:04:01.000 You know, you're focusing on a specific problem, so it's the leading to it.

00:04:05.000 It depends how the client is.

00:04:08.000 I don't always use hypnosis.

00:04:10.000 I am a mind coach.

00:04:11.000 I don't class myself as a hypnotist, although hypnotherapy is part and parcel of what I do.

00:04:15.000 I class myself as a mind coach because there's different facets to it, there's different ways of leading people into various things and considerations about what they say, especially using language, when it's out of sync sort of thing, doesn't make sense.

00:04:29.000 And then you might have to make sense of it and then unconsciously, your unconscious mind deciphers it and gets you the best results really.

00:04:37.000 Well, it's fascinating to me because for the longest time, mind coaches were sort of unheard of in combat sports.

00:04:44.000 It was almost like it was a scarlet letter or a mark against you because you were so weak that you needed someone to figure out how to hypnotize you or how to talk you into being strong.

00:05:01.000 You should just be a fucking man and get out there and do it.

00:05:04.000 That was the attitude that a lot of people had.

00:05:07.000 Yeah, in England, they say, don't be so fucking soft.

00:05:09.000 They say that in America, too.

00:05:12.000 Yeah.

00:05:12.000 But they don't say it with that same...

00:05:14.000 Yeah, they say it with the same cockney tone.

00:05:15.000 I don't know why they did a cockney tone there from the north.

00:05:17.000 Yeah, I mean, it was...

00:05:19.000 Yeah, it's all macho.

00:05:21.000 You know, don't, you know, get on with it, blah, blah, blah.

00:05:23.000 I've seen more people...

00:05:25.000 Who are very very skilled get beat by their own self You've seen that you know their own minds and then it's it can be a very It can be very hard for people well the reason why I was gonna bring that up because I think that fighting in particular is probably the most difficult of all Chosen endeavors.

00:05:47.000 Outside of being a soldier, it's the most difficult of all chosen endeavors as far as chosen goals that you're trying to accomplish.

00:05:58.000 What you're trying to accomplish is you're trying to use your body, use your bones and your muscle to defeat other people who are also using their bones and muscle.

00:06:08.000 And the techniques are all readily available.

00:06:11.000 There's no secrets anymore.

00:06:12.000 I mean, there's a few...

00:06:13.000 Secrets, if you have really good coaches, you can get some tips, but essentially everybody knows how to punch, everybody knows how to kick, and you're just trying to figure out how to maximize your possibilities, maximize your potential for victory.

00:06:29.000 How to not get in your own way not how to not trip over your own fears and anxiety and That's where this mind coach thing comes into play and that's where I think it's applicable not just For fighting but also for just life in general because I think that for a lot of people their success or failure of A big part of it is predicated on how they view life and how they view themselves and how they approach each

00:07:00.000 thing, each obstacle, each goal, each endeavor that they're attempting to solve or to give their own expression to.

00:07:14.000 If it works on fighting, it'll probably work on anything.

00:07:18.000 And if you can get someone to a better place mentally, where they can become a more effective fighter and stay out of their own way, in terms of their anxiety and their fears...

00:07:32.000 Yeah, I mean...

00:07:51.000 It's part and parcel of everything.

00:07:53.000 It's not just about fighters.

00:07:56.000 I do work with fighters because I come from a Muay Thai background.

00:07:59.000 I've been involved in it a long time.

00:08:00.000 30 years now.

00:08:03.000 It's...

00:08:05.000 You have to, fighting's hard as you know, of course, but fighting yourself as well as an opponent, as well as trying to listen to your corner, as well as hearing people scream your name or other people screaming for the other person to kick your ass, it's difficult.

00:08:19.000 You have to kind of go within, you know, and control everything that you're doing and try and impose what you've got to do on the other person.

00:08:28.000 Yeah, doubts and fear, they're extra weights that you carry into the ring.

00:08:33.000 Yeah.

00:08:34.000 Or into the cage.

00:08:35.000 And in life, I mean, and again, it's analogous to life.

00:08:39.000 Doubts and fears on top of the reality of the difficulty of what you're trying to do, whatever you're trying to do.

00:08:45.000 Those doubts and fears, they're like, it's like a heavy weight vest that you're carrying on top of the burden of whatever you're trying to accomplish in the first place.

00:08:54.000 And for fighters, it can be just smothering.

00:08:57.000 I mean, we've had many instances of guys backstage that either didn't fight or almost didn't fight because they were having anxiety attacks, because they were freaking out, because the moment was finally there.

00:09:10.000 And their mind was just running away from them.

00:09:14.000 Their mind was trying to figure out a way out of this.

00:09:16.000 Like, we can figure out a way out of this.

00:09:18.000 All we have to do is just go crazy here, and the doctor will come over, and how about you have a few heart palpitations and fall down, you can't breathe, and then the doctor's going to rescue you.

00:09:27.000 Yeah, or you're ill.

00:09:27.000 No more fighting.

00:09:28.000 Yeah, you're ill.

00:09:29.000 I hope the doctor finds something wrong with me because I'm ill.

00:09:32.000 Everyone's considered that.

00:09:32.000 I mean, I did the same.

00:09:34.000 I thought, you know, if he sees that I'm ill, I've got a cough.

00:09:40.000 We're good to go.

00:09:58.000 And that's a problem.

00:10:00.000 Getting yourself lit up as bad as you could, as you would, if you didn't do anything about it.

00:10:05.000 You know?

00:10:06.000 Maybe.

00:10:07.000 You know, there's only so much.

00:10:09.000 Yeah, there is.

00:10:10.000 Yeah, there is.

00:10:10.000 I mean, not everyone's going to be a champion.

00:10:12.000 Right.

00:10:12.000 That's a fact.

00:10:13.000 That is a fact.

00:10:14.000 You know, they don't throw these belts around, do they?

00:10:16.000 The UFC and the WBC boxing.

00:10:18.000 They don't just give you a belt.

00:10:19.000 You know, and there's always...

00:10:21.000 But from my point of view, I like seeing people conquer shit.

00:10:26.000 Yes.

00:10:26.000 That really debilitate them.

00:10:28.000 Whether they win, lose or draw, sometimes it's irrespective.

00:10:32.000 It's the experience of them saying, I did a lot better than I thought I would do and all that sort of stuff.

00:10:38.000 And they can live with it.

00:10:39.000 Some people lose and they just never forget it.

00:10:42.000 And it can haunt them for eternity, really.

00:10:46.000 Yeah, they define themselves.

00:10:48.000 That's a real issue with human beings.

00:10:50.000 They define themselves by their past failures.

00:10:52.000 Even though they've learned from those mistakes, they always look at themselves as like, God, I'm the guy who did this.

00:10:59.000 I'm the guy who shit his pants.

00:11:01.000 I'm the guy who, you know, got in that car accident.

00:11:03.000 I'm the guy who showed up late and got fired from my job.

00:11:07.000 And you become, instead of a human being who has a lifelong, just a giant string of experiences, a lot of them that you've learned from and that you're better because of, instead you have the sting, like the emotional sting of those failures that just haunt people.

00:11:27.000 And that's very common with people.

00:11:29.000 They get haunted.

00:11:30.000 That's why some people are haunted by high school, by grammar school and high school bullies.

00:11:35.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:11:36.000 Being bullied, like, defined them during their formative state.

00:11:40.000 And, you know, I've known a lot of fighters who, they've carried chips on their shoulders deep into their 40s from being bullied when they were in high school.

00:11:49.000 A funny story, when I lived in a place in England called Macclesfield, and it's on a big hill where I used to live, and I seen the guy who used to live next door to me, his mum used to live next door to me, he used to live there as well, he was 60, something like that, and I seen him at the top of the road, and he was stood at the top of the road, and he was looking down the bottom of the road like this,

00:12:06.000 and he was looking again, and he was just stood there, and I said, what are you doing?

00:12:10.000 And he went, there's two guys down there, they used to bully me at school and waiting for them to go, 60!

00:12:16.000 60 years of age still.

00:12:18.000 He said, I'm waiting for them to leave.

00:12:19.000 Yeah, he was waiting for them to go, Billy's name is, and he was just stood there and waiting for them to go.

00:12:22.000 That...

00:12:24.000 I like to change, and I would love to change.

00:12:27.000 It's sad.

00:12:28.000 Think about it.

00:12:28.000 It's a long time, you know, for him to, you know, and it's a small town, Macclesfield, where he used to live, so he's probably bumped into them.

00:12:34.000 He's probably avoided them in the store or shops or whatever.

00:12:37.000 So for 42, 43 years, this guy's been haunted.

00:12:40.000 Maybe more.

00:12:41.000 Maybe more, because before then, in dream school.

00:12:43.000 And I hate that.

00:12:44.000 I just, you know, it's sad.

00:12:46.000 It's real sad.

00:12:48.000 It is sad, but it also seems to be bizarrely and cruelly a part of human nature, a part of animal nature.

00:12:54.000 So if the animals fuck with other animals, they try to find the pecking order.

00:12:58.000 And it motivates the weak ones to be strong.

00:13:02.000 It motivates people to stand up for themselves.

00:13:05.000 And that's where, I mean, the bullying is a horrible thing, but bullying is also the reason why a lot of great fighters exist.

00:13:11.000 Guys like George St. Pierre, I mean, he's pretty open about it.

00:13:14.000 Like, the reason why he became a great fighter, because he was tired of people fucking with him.

00:13:18.000 And he might not have ever become the guy who he became if it wasn't for that pressure.

00:13:24.000 If it wasn't for those obstacles that were thrown in front of his face, you know, and that's...

00:13:31.000 It's unfortunate that it happens, but objectively, if you step back and look at just life itself, it seems to be an inexorable part of our existence on this planet.

00:13:43.000 There's a pull and a push, and if there's no one pushing, there's no pulling.

00:13:47.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:13:49.000 If there's no negative, oftentimes the positive doesn't reach the same heights.

00:13:55.000 No, it doesn't.

00:13:57.000 In a lot of cases.

00:13:59.000 But if you can chip away at it, or at least change some perspective on it for a person.

00:14:06.000 This is why someone said to me once when they wanted to be a mind coach that I'm only going to work with athletes.

00:14:12.000 I'm not going to do therapy.

00:14:14.000 It's all therapy.

00:14:15.000 It's all therapy.

00:14:16.000 Regardless of fighters, it's not always about them being nervous about fighting.

00:14:20.000 The fight doesn't scare her.

00:14:21.000 It might be something to do with the girlfriend, a loss of a family member, whatever.

00:14:24.000 You know, it goes way back.

00:14:27.000 It's all part of people's journeys.

00:14:29.000 It's all part of people being who they are.

00:14:32.000 Therapy has a negative connotation in a lot of people's minds because they connect it to self-indulgence.

00:14:37.000 Like, are you going to go to therapy every day and just whine and bitch about your life?

00:14:42.000 And we've all met people that are doing that.

00:14:45.000 We've all met people that are just locked.

00:14:47.000 So for them, it's sort of more about having the opportunity to use someone to talk about themselves.

00:14:54.000 It's an ego trip.

00:14:55.000 In a lot of ways.

00:14:57.000 Instead of trying to solve whatever influences that have control over them.

00:15:05.000 As a therapist, you get to know.

00:15:06.000 As a mind coach, you get to know who will carry on doing that behavior.

00:15:11.000 It's secondary gain.

00:15:12.000 Some people do the behavior just for a gain, just to, you know, get themselves where they want to get to, to get where they want to get.

00:15:19.000 You kind of decipher from that.

00:15:21.000 I don't really, I don't play that game.

00:15:25.000 I just give them, you know, well, really?

00:15:26.000 You know, and I just, I'm kind of, they can be kind of tough with it, but, you know, if you want them to change, if they don't want to change, nothing you can do.

00:15:33.000 Right.

00:15:34.000 You know, I don't want to, I don't have these dragged out long, you know, therapy sessions of, and then this, and this, and this happened, and that happened.

00:15:43.000 I try and get right to it, right to the core of it.

00:15:48.000 That's because of the way I was trained.

00:15:49.000 I was trained by a guy called Colin Mackay, who's absolutely like Yoda, you know, my teacher.

00:15:54.000 And I was trained that way, and he has good success.

00:15:59.000 And how did you get involved with him?

00:16:02.000 I got involved with Colin.

00:16:04.000 I started, I went to a seminar many years ago by a guy called Keith Meyer.

00:16:10.000 And I was at a bad time of my life, being a bit of an idiot, drinking, snorting, dancing powder, etc.

00:16:17.000 I wasn't being the best I could be.

00:16:19.000 And I went to a seminar, Keith Meyer, loved it, felt great, didn't know why, just really started reading books, everything, Dr. Wayne Dyer and all sorts of things like that.

00:16:28.000 And then I got hold of, wanted to do a course with a company, and the company was good.

00:16:36.000 But I found out about Colin, and that was it.

00:16:40.000 Since then, he's become my friend, and we're like, he's just smart.

00:16:45.000 Super smart.

00:16:46.000 Well, it's interesting because your main pursuit with this or your main focus with this is fighters.

00:16:53.000 So you're dealing with a very concentrated version of this kind of problem solving because of the fact that the existence is so intense.

00:17:02.000 It's so difficult psychologically.

00:17:04.000 It's so difficult emotionally.

00:17:05.000 And it's very difficult physically as well.

00:17:07.000 There's so many discipline.

00:17:09.000 There's so many factors involved in being a successful fighter.

00:17:14.000 And you are involved in probably like the most concentrated form of dealing with anxiety and problem solving and the ability to see results.

00:17:26.000 Yeah.

00:17:27.000 To be honest, I never thought of it like that.

00:17:29.000 I didn't, because I've been around it so long.

00:17:32.000 I never really thought of it like that.

00:17:33.000 I just do what I do.

00:17:35.000 Well, if you think about it, like a person, like, say, if a guy was a banker or, you know, an insurance salesman or something like that, and they had a bunch of issues that are keeping them back from being successful at their chosen endeavor, you know, their failure, pro or con,

00:17:51.000 is only financial, you know?

00:17:53.000 But it's relative to them, isn't it?

00:17:54.000 It is relative to them.

00:17:55.000 Relative to them.

00:17:56.000 But the intensity of it.

00:17:57.000 Yeah.

00:17:57.000 Like the intensity of a guy going into battle like yourself, about to go and trying to find coughs and reasons why someone's going to step in and rescue you from what is ultimately your entire focus for the last six to eight weeks.

00:18:09.000 You've been ready for this one moment and the moment's here and you're ready to get the fuck out of there.

00:18:13.000 Right?

00:18:13.000 There's nothing like that in the world of being a banker.

00:18:16.000 No, I suppose there's not.

00:18:17.000 Because I've been around it so long.

00:18:19.000 You know, 30 years I've been around it.

00:18:21.000 Muay Thai.

00:18:22.000 I've seen so many really good fighters in the gym.

00:18:26.000 Like, awesome.

00:18:27.000 Kicking pads, sharp, clinched, everything was sweet.

00:18:30.000 Sparring was on point.

00:18:31.000 And then just to see this different...

00:18:33.000 I think of it like this, like making a really nice wedding cake, and then when you're going to show it to the people that are going to the wedding, just fucking squash it.

00:18:42.000 That's always felt like to me, just like, just destroyed their own...

00:18:46.000 Creation, all the stuff that they've done in the gym.

00:18:48.000 Maybe a better analogy is you wheel that wedding cake out and it melts instantly under the hot lights of the stage.

00:18:54.000 Yeah.

00:18:55.000 Which is really what it is.

00:18:56.000 Yeah, it does.

00:18:56.000 Because when you have it in a regular room, the lights aren't that hot.

00:18:59.000 Yeah.

00:18:59.000 And when you have someone in the gym, I mean, there's a lot of pressure sparring in the gym, of course.

00:19:04.000 You know, there's a lot of great fighters.

00:19:07.000 You're working out with people who are very dangerous.

00:19:09.000 There's a lot of expectations and anxiety, but it's nothing compared to an actual fight itself.

00:19:14.000 That's when everything's ramped up.

00:19:16.000 Yeah, I mean, especially like you said, there's people who have been bullied as well.

00:19:20.000 And you have to consider who you are.

00:19:22.000 You have to consider everything about yourself, you know, going on that stage, going into that lion's den, so to speak, and, you know, the gladiatorial sort of archetype of it all.

00:19:32.000 But it is difficult, but there is techniques that work really, really well.

00:19:38.000 Techniques that work really well to get the person out of these negative states of mind these negative patterns to get them to get them because what can happen is you can go away with the train of thought so it magnifies and goes on and on gets bigger and bigger and bigger and the self-taught gets really intense so it trips you up completely and then can overthrow you to make you but you know a minimum of what you can actually achieve you know what I mean And you've recently started working with my friend Ian McCall as well.

00:20:07.000 Yeah, I have.

00:20:07.000 Who's another great UFC fighter.

00:20:10.000 He's very excited about the results.

00:20:13.000 Very happy about the results.

00:20:14.000 Alright, good.

00:20:15.000 I'm glad about that.

00:20:15.000 He loves it.

00:20:16.000 Yeah, we were talking about it and he was like, I'm 100% sold.

00:20:19.000 He said when he first started doing it, he was like, eh, we'll see.

00:20:24.000 But then, you know, once he really experienced it, he was like, okay, I'm going to be doing this from now on.

00:20:30.000 Yeah, I really like Ian McCall.

00:20:32.000 He's a real nice guy.

00:20:33.000 We've not done that much, really.

00:20:35.000 Did you work with him after his last fight?

00:20:37.000 Did you work with him after the...

00:20:39.000 No.

00:20:39.000 I've only been...

00:20:40.000 I actually don't know, because, you know, no disrespect, I haven't followed UFC that much.

00:20:45.000 How dare you.

00:20:45.000 I know, I'm sorry.

00:20:46.000 I'll leave now.

00:20:47.000 No, it's okay.

00:20:48.000 But, um...

00:20:48.000 I've finished my coffee first.

00:20:50.000 But, um...

00:20:51.000 Polite, I'm English.

00:20:52.000 But it's like, you know, um...

00:20:54.000 I think it was after his last loss.

00:20:56.000 He said he was feeling certain things.

00:20:58.000 John Lineker?

00:20:58.000 Yeah.

00:20:58.000 Was that the guy, the little stocky guy that just wind shots him?

00:21:02.000 Yeah, I did see that.

00:21:04.000 And since working with him, it's just about finding out who they are.

00:21:10.000 Everyone's different, and that's why I like to work with people once.

00:21:13.000 I want to do seminars.

00:21:14.000 I'm over here doing seminars at the moment.

00:21:16.000 But I like to work with people to find out what makes them tick.

00:21:19.000 To find out what stimulates them and what doesn't, you know?

00:21:22.000 And what holds them up?

00:21:24.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:21:25.000 But Ian McCall's a lovely guy.

00:21:27.000 I really like him.

00:21:28.000 I like him as well.

00:21:29.000 And Joe...

00:21:30.000 Same thing.

00:21:30.000 Yeah, same deal.

00:21:31.000 Great people.

00:21:32.000 Same deal, yeah.

00:21:33.000 Yeah, and you work with Ross Pearson as well, who's another great guy.

00:21:36.000 I have done.

00:21:36.000 I work with Ross Pearson.

00:21:37.000 I did some stand-up.

00:21:39.000 I used to teach Muay Thai.

00:21:40.000 I was at a gym called Salford Muay Thai.

00:21:42.000 And just holding pads and that.

00:21:44.000 So I kind of fell out of love with it, really teaching, etc.

00:21:47.000 Because mind coaching took over it.

00:21:49.000 But yeah, I worked with Ross as well.

00:21:50.000 He's another super guy.

00:21:51.000 So you're not doing Muay Thai training anymore?

00:21:54.000 No.

00:21:54.000 You're basically doing all mind coach stuff now?

00:21:56.000 Yes, sir.

00:21:56.000 Wow.

00:21:56.000 And commentary for Yoko and M-Fusion.

00:21:59.000 Yeah, and for folks who don't know, Vinny used to do commentary for It's Showtime, which is one of the bigger kickboxing events in the world before it was bought out by Glory.

00:22:08.000 And now Glory is struggling a bit in the United States, unfortunately.

00:22:14.000 I don't know why.

00:22:15.000 It's just, to me...

00:22:16.000 I'm such a huge fan of it.

00:22:18.000 I think, you know, you watch a fight like Simon Marcus versus Arton Levin.

00:22:24.000 It's a fucking great fight.

00:22:25.000 I was watching it this morning again in the gym.

00:22:27.000 It was an amazing, amazing fight.

00:22:28.000 Five rounds, went to a draw.

00:22:30.000 I mean, it's just a fucking war between two of the very best guys in the world.

00:22:34.000 So exciting, high-level stuff.

00:22:35.000 I've never seen anyone train.

00:22:37.000 I was at Muay Thai in America last year with my friend Brian Dobler from Fontana.

00:22:42.000 He was training there.

00:22:44.000 Simon was training at his gym.

00:22:45.000 I've never seen anyone train like him.

00:22:47.000 He is a machine.

00:22:49.000 Really?

00:22:49.000 Well, he looks like a machine.

00:22:50.000 Ridiculous.

00:22:51.000 Yeah, he does.

00:22:52.000 Yeah, and his fight with Joe Schilling.

00:22:53.000 Holy shit, what a fight that was.

00:22:55.000 What a fight.

00:22:56.000 Yeah.

00:22:57.000 And Joe wound up knocking him out in the fourth round.

00:23:00.000 They went three rounds.

00:23:01.000 It was a draw after three rounds and Joe knocked him out in the fourth.

00:23:03.000 It was a fucking crazy fight.

00:23:04.000 Joe Schilling gets up.

00:23:05.000 Joe Schilling is like the guy out of Halloween, Michael Myers.

00:23:08.000 You knock him down, he's getting back up.

00:23:10.000 Yeah.

00:23:10.000 And he's special.

00:23:13.000 And you were working with him before that fight.

00:23:14.000 Yeah, I was.

00:23:15.000 I worked with him before the first glory, when he won it.

00:23:18.000 When he beat Artem Levin.

00:23:19.000 Yeah.

00:23:20.000 I asked him.

00:23:22.000 I asked him, I met Joe, it was kind of, I don't know, I'll be honest with you, Joe had a bit of a chip on his shoulder, he was a bit angry and stuff, you know what I mean?

00:23:32.000 He won't mind me telling you this because he said I can, so he beat me up.

00:23:36.000 And he, yeah, he was a bit like that and I seen him at K1 because I did K1 in Los Angeles a while ago.

00:23:43.000 I was talking to him and I said, you're miles better than what you come across on the internet.

00:23:47.000 You're a much better person than what you act.

00:23:50.000 And I kind of stuck home with him.

00:23:52.000 He made me a friend on Facebook.

00:23:53.000 And then I contacted him and said, you know, do you want me to work with you?

00:23:56.000 And he went, yeah, sure, cool.

00:23:57.000 And then we got on.

00:23:59.000 He's so smart.

00:24:00.000 He picks things up so quickly.

00:24:01.000 He's so open to stuff.

00:24:04.000 We've done some really, really cool stuff that's I can experiment on Joe, if that makes sense.

00:24:10.000 You know, some things I want to try, and I do them, and he seems to work really well on him.

00:24:16.000 Like, can you give us an example?

00:24:17.000 Like, what do you mean, like, things that you want to experiment with?

00:24:19.000 Right, it's really strange, but it's like...

00:24:22.000 I had to think about, because, I'm English, Sir Galahad, the knight of Sir Galahad, you know, the knights of the round table.

00:24:30.000 Yes.

00:24:30.000 You know, King Arthur.

00:24:32.000 And Joe didn't want to get injured because he was going to fight, I think it was Robert something or other he was fought on glory, and then he was going to fight on Bellator against Melvin Manhoff.

00:24:40.000 Okay.

00:24:41.000 And he wanted to come out unscathed, so we persuaded his unconscious mind to have armour like Sir Galahad.

00:24:49.000 So I talked in hypnosis about the archetype of knights, of the knights of the round table, and he was Sir Galahad.

00:24:59.000 Not literally, obviously.

00:25:00.000 But, you know, so he had armour, so he didn't come out uninjured.

00:25:04.000 Right.

00:25:04.000 You know, and it worked.

00:25:06.000 I'm not saying it's going to work for everything, you know, like, oh, good, you know, it's like your bullets and stuff like that, you know what I mean?

00:25:10.000 But it was just, it was that, getting his mindset into that, into that sort of, the way of thinking.

00:25:16.000 So do you think...

00:25:17.000 Because he was so worried about getting injured.

00:25:18.000 Right, so is that why it was effective?

00:25:21.000 Because it mitigated the stress that he had of worried about getting injured?

00:25:25.000 Because that can fuck you, right?

00:25:27.000 Of course.

00:25:27.000 If you're like, God, I don't get hurt.

00:25:29.000 God, I don't get hurt.

00:25:29.000 That getting hurt is in the back of your mind replaying over and over and over again.

00:25:33.000 Yeah.

00:25:34.000 Indeed.

00:25:34.000 There was one instance, Liam Harrison was fighting a tie called Anuak-Kyal-Samlit, and he'd fought him before and got stopped in Jamaica when John Wayne Parr fought against Borkau-Paw-Pamuk.

00:25:45.000 And Liam had been stopped in, I think it was a fourth round with low kicks.

00:25:49.000 So we did a hypnosis to make him called...

00:25:54.000 Hypnosis and the trigger word was Warrior.

00:25:56.000 You know, he kept this word, because Liam's...

00:25:58.000 Have you ever seen Liam Harrison fight?

00:25:59.000 He's an incredible fighter.

00:26:01.000 I know, along with Jordan Watson and Andy House and all them from Bad Company in England.

00:26:04.000 And what we did was, we did this hypnosis, and when I was commentating on the show, because he was fighting Aniwat, in round four, and this just freaked me out, really, to be honest, he looked at me, and he looked me straight in the eye, and he went, warrior.

00:26:17.000 And then beat shit out of Aniwat.

00:26:20.000 Went on points.

00:26:21.000 And yet afterwards I said, do you remember saying warrior?

00:26:24.000 And he went, no.

00:26:24.000 Didn't remember it.

00:26:25.000 So it was that stuck in his head.

00:26:27.000 Well, in all fairness, he probably got hit in the head a bunch of times during the fight too.

00:26:32.000 Do you remember where you live?

00:26:33.000 No.

00:26:35.000 I have no fucking idea.

00:26:37.000 Did I win?

00:26:38.000 Yeah, who am I? I mean, how many times has a fighter won a fight and then asked what happened?

00:26:43.000 Yeah.

00:26:43.000 That does happen.

00:26:44.000 Because I feel that it's a state as well.

00:26:47.000 It's both, right?

00:26:48.000 Yeah.

00:26:49.000 That flow state, that hypnotic state.

00:26:52.000 It's a satirite, isn't it, in the Japanese martial arts?

00:26:55.000 I think it's a state.

00:26:57.000 Didn't Muhammad Ali talk about it when Muhammad Ali fought Cleveland Williams?

00:27:00.000 He was in that kind of state.

00:27:02.000 That's my favorite Ali fight.

00:27:04.000 I'm so glad you brought that up.

00:27:05.000 Wasn't he breathtaking?

00:27:07.000 I've played that fight on this podcast at least three times.

00:27:09.000 He was in a state.

00:27:10.000 He was in this flow.

00:27:11.000 And that's before he went away for three years, before they took away his ability to fight because he wouldn't fight in the Vietnam War.

00:27:18.000 And then he came back and he was never the same again.

00:27:21.000 That Cleveland Williams fight to me is like quintessential Ali.

00:27:23.000 Breathtaking.

00:27:23.000 People should watch that.

00:27:24.000 That just showed his full potential.

00:27:26.000 But yeah, he was in that sort of flow state.

00:27:28.000 Pennell Whittaker the same.

00:27:31.000 There's one fight where he fought Harold Brazier when he moved up to Light Welterweight, do you remember?

00:27:36.000 And he slipped, I'm trying to do it, I can't do it by the way, but he slipped, slipped and he just stepped around him and patted him on the arse and I'm like, come on now.

00:27:43.000 That's ridiculous skill.

00:27:45.000 Yeah.

00:27:46.000 Well, Whitaker is one of those guys that people kind of forget about.

00:27:50.000 Everyone wants to talk about Julio Cesar Chavez and some great fighters from that era.

00:27:54.000 He beat Chavez.

00:27:55.000 He beat Chavez that fight.

00:27:56.000 I think he won as well.

00:27:58.000 Of course he did.

00:27:58.000 But he was one of those guys that, for whatever reason, people have kind of forgotten about him.

00:28:04.000 Meldrick Taylor, a lot of people have forgotten about Meldrick Taylor.

00:28:06.000 Meldrick Taylor, when Meldrick Taylor, I shouldn't say this, when Meldrick Taylor lost to Crisano Espana in, I think he fought in Ireland or somewhere, oh no, it was on the Razor Ruddock and Lennox Lewis bill.

00:28:17.000 I cried.

00:28:18.000 I loved Meldrick Taylor.

00:28:20.000 He was like my everything.

00:28:22.000 I shouldn't say that, should I? It's come out the closet, no!

00:28:26.000 No, but he was just...

00:28:28.000 I loved watching him.

00:28:29.000 His fight with Chavez was just an outside classic.

00:28:32.000 Yeah, well, Chavez changed him.

00:28:33.000 He was never the same after that fight.

00:28:35.000 No.

00:28:35.000 After he got stopped in the 12th, you know, with like seconds to go.

00:28:39.000 Two parts of his own blood or something, wasn't it?

00:28:42.000 Oh, yeah.

00:28:42.000 He was swallowing his own blood from the mouth.

00:28:44.000 It cuts.

00:28:45.000 But it was just, it was heartbreaking because after that he was just literally never the same.

00:28:50.000 And Terry Norris destroyed him.

00:28:52.000 Exactly, I was just going to bring that up.

00:28:53.000 Yeah, and Terry Norris was bouncing on his feet.

00:28:55.000 And then Terry, I mean you see Terry now, he's fucked out too.

00:28:59.000 Has he got Parkinson's?

00:28:59.000 They're both fucked.

00:29:00.000 Is this trainer training, he's training Glovkin, isn't he?

00:29:04.000 Who?

00:29:04.000 His trainer?

00:29:05.000 Yeah, Abel Sanchez.

00:29:06.000 He's now training Golovkin.

00:29:07.000 Yes, he is.

00:29:08.000 He's training him up in Big Bear.

00:29:09.000 Who I love.

00:29:10.000 Love Golovkin.

00:29:11.000 If you watch Golovkin explain how he fights, he always talks about how he feels.

00:29:17.000 He talks about emotion.

00:29:18.000 He talks about how he feels.

00:29:19.000 And everything you see him, even when he's hitting the back, You see him feeling the shot, you know?

00:29:25.000 He can see him, every single part of him, considering everything that he does, and apparently he even beats people up.

00:29:32.000 I think I heard that Kovalev had left that gym because of Gennady Golovkin.

00:29:37.000 Rumor has it.

00:29:38.000 Really?

00:29:38.000 And he drops him with a body shot.

00:29:39.000 Yeah, he's a monster.

00:29:41.000 Kovalev, who fights 15 pounds heavier, too.

00:29:44.000 That's the rumor.

00:29:45.000 I'm not saying it's that.

00:29:46.000 I love rumors.

00:29:46.000 Spread it up.

00:29:47.000 Spread it up.

00:29:49.000 I don't live in England anymore.

00:29:50.000 In Liverpool, I've moved.

00:29:53.000 You know what I mean?

00:29:54.000 Kovalev knocking on me doors.

00:29:55.000 It was Joe Rogan's fault.

00:29:56.000 He made me say it.

00:29:58.000 Kovalev is a monster, too, man.

00:29:59.000 He's incredible.

00:30:00.000 And look what he did to Bernard Hopkins.

00:30:01.000 Yeah, that was pretty shocking.

00:30:03.000 Pretty shocking.

00:30:04.000 You know, to see Bernard Hopkins in fully defensive survival mode.

00:30:07.000 Yeah.

00:30:07.000 Especially in round 12. I thought it looked like he let him off a bit in round 12, I thought.

00:30:12.000 Did you think so?

00:30:13.000 I didn't think so.

00:30:13.000 I thought...

00:30:14.000 I don't know.

00:30:14.000 I thought he was chasing him down.

00:30:16.000 I don't know.

00:30:16.000 He's very brutal.

00:30:17.000 He's on my friend's Facebook.

00:30:19.000 Very exciting.

00:30:21.000 Yeah, with dropping names.

00:30:22.000 But he...

00:30:23.000 It's before he was famous.

00:30:24.000 But he seems to like violent stuff, you know?

00:30:28.000 He's a scary guy.

00:30:29.000 He's a very, very scary guy.

00:30:31.000 Well, he killed a guy in the ring.

00:30:32.000 A guy died in one of his fights and it didn't seem to affect him at all.

00:30:36.000 You know, a lot of times, like with Ray Mancini or Emile Griffith, there's a lot of fighters, they'll kill somebody.

00:30:43.000 Yeah, Byron McGuigan did as well, didn't he?

00:30:45.000 Did he?

00:30:45.000 Yeah, Byron McGuigan killed somebody as well.

00:30:47.000 I didn't remember that.

00:30:48.000 Yeah, but something happens to them after that where they're never quite the same.

00:30:53.000 Yeah, Nigel Benn.

00:30:54.000 Yeah, Nigel Benn was the same.

00:30:56.000 Well, I met Nigel.

00:30:57.000 It's interesting, again.

00:30:58.000 The Joe McClellan fight?

00:30:59.000 Yeah, if you listen to that at the end of it, they said, Nigel Benn says, the first person I'd like to thank is Paul McKenna for hypnotizing me and making me believe in myself.

00:31:07.000 And I met Nigel Benn about two months ago.

00:31:10.000 He said that after the McClellan fight?

00:31:11.000 Yes, you watch it.

00:31:12.000 Wow.

00:31:13.000 The first thing he said, I'd like to thank Paul McKenna for hypnotising me and letting him believe myself.

00:31:16.000 Because he apparently had a separation of his wife and his girlfriend.

00:31:20.000 That fucks people up, you know.

00:31:22.000 So there's a grief attached to it, isn't there, you know?

00:31:25.000 And I mentioned that to Nigel Banks, a massive fan.

00:31:28.000 And I mentioned that.

00:31:29.000 I said I got into mind coaching because, partly, it's because of how, you know...

00:31:33.000 He got knocked out of the ring, didn't he?

00:31:37.000 McClellan was just a monster now.

00:31:39.000 McClellan was in his prime and a destroyer back then.

00:31:43.000 Everyone was talking about McClellan eventually fighting Roy Jones Jr. That was the big super fight that was on the horizon.

00:31:50.000 People are anticipating all the different fights right now for Golovkin.

00:31:54.000 They're anticipating possibly Cotto.

00:31:57.000 If not Cotto, maybe one day...

00:31:59.000 Canelo.

00:32:01.000 Canelo Avrez.

00:32:02.000 Yeah, that's a possibility.

00:32:03.000 That's how they were looking at him until the Nigel Benn fight.

00:32:06.000 And it looked like he was just gonna kill Nigel Benn.

00:32:09.000 Just beating the fuck out of him.

00:32:12.000 Two things.

00:32:12.000 One, the weight cut issue.

00:32:14.000 That was a big issue because Gerald McLevin was huge and he was cutting a lot of weight to get down to that weight class and that was back when, you know, people weren't doing it well.

00:32:23.000 They weren't rehydrating with IVs and particularly in boxing, the weight cutting mentality in wrestling is a totally different mentality because you could wrestle dehydrated and although your performance will probably suffer, You are not as concerned about head trauma and the head trauma that these guys get when they're dehydrated is very very dangerous because the bleeding on the brain is just way more devastating.

00:32:48.000 Apparently all the deaths that have ever occurred or almost all the deaths that ever occurred in boxing have occurred outside of the heavyweight division.

00:32:55.000 And the reason being that those are the guys that are cutting the weight.

00:32:59.000 And the heavyweights aren't.

00:33:00.000 But there's this one guy that got really fucked up on HBO, like I want to say a year or two ago.

00:33:06.000 He fought that Cuban kid.

00:33:08.000 Was it Eric Perez that he fought?

00:33:10.000 Is that the guy's name he fought?

00:33:11.000 I don't remember.

00:33:12.000 I'm not doing a good job of remembering it.

00:33:13.000 But it was a rare instance of a heavyweight being like really badly concussed in a fight and having bleeding on the brain and having to get an operation.

00:33:23.000 He was a Russian guy.

00:33:25.000 Anyway, point being, that McClellan fight was pretty crazy.

00:33:29.000 When they did a documentary on Gerald McClellan, because I was a fan of Gerald McClellan who knocked out Julian Jackson.

00:33:38.000 He knocked out Julian Jackson, I think it was like seven rounds, maybe knocked him out in like one or whatever.

00:33:43.000 But he said on the second fight in the interview afterwards, when I fought you the first time, I had a headache for three weeks.

00:33:49.000 I had a headache for three weeks after fighting you.

00:33:52.000 That isn't a good sign.

00:33:53.000 Yeah.

00:33:54.000 You know, that isn't a good sign.

00:33:55.000 And all of the documentaries have missed that out because I watched it and I thought, I remember because I just, you know, something sticks in your head.

00:34:03.000 I just thought, he's not mentioned that.

00:34:05.000 They never mentioned how he was, and probably they sparred really hard and all that.

00:34:09.000 It was from Cronk.

00:34:10.000 Yeah.

00:34:10.000 They don't play.

00:34:11.000 No.

00:34:12.000 They don't play.

00:34:12.000 Not only do they not play, they used to crank the temperature up.

00:34:15.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:34:16.000 Emanuel Stewart would crank it up like 100 degrees in that place.

00:34:19.000 It was like a sauna.

00:34:20.000 Yeah, they couldn't have no rap music, any swearing as well.

00:34:22.000 And he believed in, like, when Lennox Lewis fought Oliver McCall, he made Oliver McCall wear white boxing boots because he thought that he made him move quicker.

00:34:31.000 Hmm.

00:34:34.000 Strange.

00:34:34.000 Strange, but if it adds to stuff.

00:34:37.000 Yeah.

00:34:39.000 Emmanuel Stewart is an interesting guy because he's so nice.

00:34:42.000 He's so personable.

00:34:43.000 He was nice.

00:34:44.000 He was dead.

00:34:45.000 Sadly.

00:34:46.000 Yeah, but he was such a nice guy.

00:34:48.000 And when a trainer is such a nice guy like that, oftentimes it seems like the fighters want to fight harder for them.

00:34:55.000 Yeah.

00:34:55.000 Like they want to win more.

00:34:57.000 Like they have this more of like, there's nothing worse than a fighter that has a contentious relationship with their trainer.

00:35:02.000 Yeah.

00:35:02.000 And then there's some sort of animosity between the two of them.

00:35:06.000 They leave, they come back, and you see a lot of that, and it really trips a lot of fighters up, those contentious relationships they have with their trainers.

00:35:13.000 I think a lot of the times, though, with fighters, sometimes it may take the position of a father figure, you know, or an elder brother, or, you know, especially a father figure, because a lot of, like, have come for him.

00:35:25.000 You know, not the best start in life, you know what I mean?

00:35:28.000 A lot of them come from a place with no father.

00:35:30.000 Yeah, indeed.

00:35:31.000 Big percentage.

00:35:32.000 Yeah, indeed.

00:35:32.000 You know, so, you know, I always, my trainers, I looked up to them and wanted to please them as well.

00:35:38.000 Right.

00:35:38.000 I just think it's part and parcel of it, really.

00:35:41.000 It is, and I think that's why a guy like Emmanuel Stewart was so successful.

00:35:45.000 Not just because of his deep knowledge of boxing and his understanding of technique, which all were certainly there, but also just because he was such a great guy.

00:35:52.000 Yeah.

00:35:53.000 When Thomas Hearns fought Sugar Ray Leonard, I remember reading that Emanuel Stewart and Tommy Hearns locked themselves away for two weeks and just cried.

00:36:02.000 Wow.

00:36:02.000 That's passion.

00:36:03.000 Jesus Christ.

00:36:05.000 That's passion.

00:36:06.000 Get out of the house.

00:36:07.000 Yeah.

00:36:07.000 I know.

00:36:08.000 Ring me.

00:36:09.000 Yeah.

00:36:10.000 Rewind time and ring me.

00:36:12.000 And I was only 11 then.

00:36:13.000 Were there any, back then, did anybody use a mental coach back then?

00:36:18.000 Do you know of anything?

00:36:19.000 When did it start in combat sports?

00:36:21.000 I don't know.

00:36:23.000 I'm the only one in the world and that's it.

00:36:26.000 That's not true.

00:36:28.000 No, I don't know.

00:36:29.000 I just, I actually, I've never heard of anyone that does it.

00:36:34.000 I know these scenes have seen sports psychologists and stuff.

00:36:38.000 I know that Steve Collins, before he fought Chris Huber, sorry you're going about boxing.

00:36:41.000 I love boxing.

00:36:42.000 Keep going.

00:36:42.000 When Steve Collins fought Chris Eubank, he came in with earphones in and knelt in the ring.

00:36:48.000 And it played with Eubank's head because Nigel Benn had used a hypnotherapist, Paul McKenna, to go through all that to beat Gerald McClellan.

00:36:55.000 And then Eubank, because he'd injured Michael Watson so badly...

00:37:00.000 That he had this in his head that if Steve Collins is like this, he won't know when he's hurt because he'll get in such a state, he won't know when he's beat.

00:37:07.000 You know what I mean?

00:37:07.000 So he was worried that Collins was going to take too much punishment.

00:37:11.000 Yeah, or whatever the game was, but it worked for Collins because Collins beat Chris Eubank twice.

00:37:16.000 We might have beat him anyway.

00:37:18.000 Might have beat him anyway, but it's two shenanigans, isn't it?

00:37:23.000 It's mind games.

00:37:24.000 Yeah, it's like the fragile psyche of a person that's about to go into unarmed combat like that.

00:37:32.000 It's really interesting because most people would think of them as fearless.

00:37:35.000 They're just the toughest motherfuckers on the planet about to step in between those ropes and duke it out.

00:37:40.000 But meanwhile, they're balancing back and forth and there's doubt and fear and all these different things that are playing on their mind.

00:37:50.000 You've seen the Mike Tyson movie, right?

00:37:52.000 Yes.

00:37:53.000 The documentary?

00:37:54.000 Yes.

00:37:54.000 That one thing that he did, that speech where he described what it was like to walk into the ring and what he felt like and how he had all these doubts until he got into the ring.

00:38:04.000 And then when he got into the ring, he was a god.

00:38:07.000 Yeah.

00:38:07.000 Well, he used hypnotherapy, didn't he?

00:38:09.000 Did he?

00:38:10.000 Custom art always takes hypnotherapy.

00:38:11.000 I hate it on your show because I didn't know.

00:38:13.000 And I heard one of your guys said, I don't know who he was speaking to you, I apologize.

00:38:17.000 I wish I could remember everything.

00:38:18.000 I know, I wish I could remember.

00:38:18.000 I could remember where my feet were sometimes.

00:38:21.000 But yeah, he was talking, he said that Custom Auto used it.

00:38:25.000 Well, Custom Auto was certainly one of the first and most prominent To talk about psychology to a fighter.

00:38:33.000 And it was a main point of focus in interviews about Tyson, where he would talk about the things that D'Amato told him.

00:38:41.000 And D'Amato, in the footage that they have of him, there's many, many different speeches that he gave to Tyson that were on recordings.

00:38:51.000 Yeah.

00:38:52.000 And, you know, the one about fire being, you know...

00:38:55.000 Fear being your friend.

00:38:56.000 Yeah.

00:38:57.000 It feels like fire.

00:38:58.000 I'll tell you what else does.

00:38:58.000 I'll tell you what I really like.

00:39:00.000 I like Freddie Roach, of course.

00:39:01.000 Freddie's great.

00:39:02.000 We're going to see him soon.

00:39:03.000 I really like him.

00:39:04.000 I really like having my pictures up with him.

00:39:05.000 It was over the moon.

00:39:06.000 It's like a little kid on the scene.

00:39:07.000 He was like, well, it's Freddie Roach.

00:39:08.000 He's a very nice guy, too.

00:39:09.000 He is very nice.

00:39:10.000 Very, very accommodating.

00:39:13.000 Well, Virgil Hunter.

00:39:14.000 If you listen to what Virgil Hunter says...

00:39:16.000 He's got metaphors, which are learning stories.

00:39:20.000 He says a lot of cool things about life.

00:39:23.000 I think if you've got experience of life and you can convey it in such a way that it helps, that's more power to you, I think.

00:39:33.000 Yeah.

00:39:33.000 I mean, and Anne Wolfe, too, you know, from the female side, the way she trained Kirkland.

00:39:39.000 Yeah.

00:39:39.000 You know, there's probably very few trainers as ferocious in the world as that woman.

00:39:44.000 Yeah.

00:39:45.000 Some of the training that she used to have that guy do.

00:39:47.000 You see the one that not that...

00:39:52.000 One punch knockout.

00:39:53.000 She could fucking bang.

00:39:56.000 That was a chick that Christy Martin avoided like she was on fire.

00:40:00.000 Get away from me.

00:40:01.000 She didn't have nothing to do with Ann Wolfe.

00:40:03.000 And there's a great video of Ann Wolfe driving a truck.

00:40:07.000 And she's got a harness on the front of it with a heavy bag hanging from it.

00:40:11.000 And Kirkland's backing up, doing his heavy bag work, backing up.

00:40:14.000 It's fucking fantastic.

00:40:16.000 But then when he fought Canelo...

00:40:17.000 Didn't have her in the corner.

00:40:18.000 But that shot Canelo hit him with that.

00:40:21.000 Well, he didn't train with her.

00:40:23.000 And he didn't have her in his corner.

00:40:25.000 And, you know, she was actually still managing him, too.

00:40:28.000 It was just the whole thing was a mess.

00:40:29.000 That's unfortunate.

00:40:30.000 But you know what?

00:40:31.000 Canelo might have done that to him anyway.

00:40:33.000 Yeah, I mean- Kennell's a motherfucker.

00:40:35.000 I'm telling you, he's dangerous, isn't he?

00:40:36.000 There is all that, but it's like...

00:40:39.000 You know, I think it's...

00:40:40.000 Prince Nazeem Hamed was amazing.

00:40:43.000 Back in his day, when he left Blend and Ingle, they had a really close relationship from Severn and, you know, an old Irish guy, and he's got loads of stories and, you know, metaphors and blah, blah, blah.

00:40:52.000 And when he left Winkerbank, which is in Sheffield, it's not far from me, really, he wasn't the same.

00:40:58.000 Right.

00:40:58.000 He wasn't the same.

00:40:59.000 It's like Tyson and Kevin Rooney.

00:41:00.000 Right.

00:41:01.000 They just seem to have a gel, they seem to know and have a system that works.

00:41:05.000 Well, look, Tyson was incredible, I thought, with Kevin Rooney.

00:41:08.000 Right.

00:41:08.000 Well, Kevin Rooney was still a part of the Customato legacy.

00:41:12.000 He had trained under D'Amato as well, and they kind of carried over.

00:41:16.000 But he didn't have the same relationship with Kevin Rooney that he had with Customato, where he wanted Customato's happiness.

00:41:24.000 He wanted Customato's love.

00:41:26.000 He wanted Customato to really appreciate.

00:41:28.000 Father figure again, isn't it?

00:41:28.000 Father figure again.

00:41:30.000 I mean, D'Amato really literally was.

00:41:31.000 I mean, he took him in.

00:41:33.000 But again, it comes back to what you do and what your focus is, where it is really about mental states.

00:41:39.000 That mental state of wanting to please the father, wanting to please this mentor, wanting to this person that you love and care so much about their opinion and their idea of you, that it becomes a significant motivating factor.

00:41:55.000 And that tapping into these factors, tapping into whatever it is that allows you to achieve that amazing state of success.

00:42:04.000 That's why I like to get my clients.

00:42:05.000 I like to get to know my clients.

00:42:08.000 In every way.

00:42:09.000 Because then you get the best from them then.

00:42:11.000 There's a saying that's less than 100% support is sabotage.

00:42:15.000 So if you're not getting 100% with them, And they're not giving you 100% back.

00:42:19.000 You're never going to get what you can really achieve.

00:42:22.000 But it's like, I like to really get to know them, to understand them.

00:42:25.000 Once you're a client, you're always going to be a client forever.

00:42:28.000 You know, I've got a support system where, again, I was saying, learnt not off.

00:42:32.000 Colin is like, you know, they get back to you on a regular basis.

00:42:35.000 And I never keep out of touch with them because I always want them to, you know, if they need me.

00:42:40.000 You know, because I'm not needy.

00:42:42.000 I don't need to be needed.

00:42:44.000 But I like staying in contact with him.

00:42:46.000 Right.

00:42:46.000 I like success.

00:42:47.000 I love it.

00:42:48.000 Well, you also develop...

00:42:49.000 It's a project.

00:42:51.000 You develop a relationship with this person, and that person becomes a project.

00:42:54.000 Yeah.

00:42:54.000 And so you seem to get a great thrill out of other people becoming successful.

00:43:00.000 Yeah.

00:43:01.000 Which is a great quality, and that's the exact quality that you need in order to be a mentor, in order to be a coach.

00:43:09.000 The best coaches are clearly the coach that gets personal enjoyment and has a real deep investment in the student getting better.

00:43:22.000 I have a lot of, I get a lot of praise off coaches.

00:43:26.000 Mark, I think his name is Mark Kamura, who's Joe's coach.

00:43:30.000 I was talking to Joe on FaceTime and then Mark says, you've done a really good job.

00:43:34.000 I really like that.

00:43:38.000 I don't know, my sound may come across a bit, I don't know, gushy, but I just love it.

00:43:43.000 I really love it.

00:43:44.000 I just love the way, I love fighters.

00:43:47.000 I like people achieving.

00:43:48.000 I like people getting out of darkness.

00:43:50.000 I know what it's like to be there, you know what I mean?

00:43:52.000 And it's nothing more of a relief than not being there, you know what I'm saying?

00:43:56.000 Just point in the right direction, see people just glow, and they think, you know, and they get that eureka moment, the light bulb moment, where they've done something wicked, or they've done something they didn't think they could do.

00:44:06.000 That, for me, is priceless.

00:44:07.000 I didn't get paid for it, of course, as a job, but it's priceless to me.

00:44:11.000 Priceless.

00:44:11.000 Well, that's probably why you're drawn to it.

00:44:14.000 That's why you're good at it.

00:44:16.000 Thank you.

00:44:16.000 You kind of have to be that, right?

00:44:18.000 In order to be good at that job.

00:44:20.000 Yeah.

00:44:21.000 The worst thing you could ever be as a mentor is to be jealous of the success of your student.

00:44:26.000 Yeah.

00:44:27.000 Or to hope that your student doesn't do as well.

00:44:30.000 But we've all seen that.

00:44:31.000 We've all seen that from coaches.

00:44:32.000 We've seen that.

00:44:33.000 I mean, everyone's seen sabotage from coaches.

00:44:36.000 That's dark shit.

00:44:37.000 Yeah.

00:44:38.000 Yeah, it is.

00:44:39.000 There is an element of jealousy and envy or whatever, sabotaging in people.

00:44:46.000 And oftentimes it's like former competitors.

00:44:48.000 Yeah.

00:44:48.000 You know?

00:44:49.000 You know, I think, I don't know if you agree with this, but I think when a coach has been a fighter, there's a transition from him being still a fighter to a coach, you know?

00:44:59.000 I've got a friend called Frankie Hudders who's got a really good gym in Withenshaw, in Manchester, and I see that with him.

00:45:04.000 He was a fighter, a very good one.

00:45:05.000 And I can see the transition now of how he is being a coach.

00:45:09.000 He's like, got all these kids that look up to him and, you know, like Jordan Watson's coach, Richard Smith.

00:45:14.000 It's the same.

00:45:16.000 You can see the transition because they were fighters and then they become mentors and coaches.

00:45:21.000 I like watching that.

00:45:23.000 That's interesting.

00:45:24.000 It's an interesting metamorphosis.

00:45:28.000 Yeah, it is.

00:45:29.000 And it is an important metamorphosis too because if you always identify with being a fighter, you're never going to be a great coach.

00:45:35.000 You have to accept this new stage of your life And embrace it the same way you embrace being a fighter.

00:45:42.000 To do it with 100% of your ability and your focus.

00:45:45.000 It's hard for some people because then it becomes not about them.

00:45:48.000 It becomes about them helping other people.

00:45:50.000 And some personalities are not really suited for that.

00:45:53.000 Well, fighters are about them.

00:45:55.000 I mean, you know, certain, not all of them, but certain amounts of it has to be about them because they're the ones that's taking the risk.

00:46:03.000 They're the ones that are going to get in the beats, aren't they?

00:46:05.000 Right.

00:46:05.000 That go in the ring and take the shots and take the pain.

00:46:09.000 You know what I mean?

00:46:10.000 So it is difficult for a person to transition, but that's with the change of values.

00:46:15.000 As you get older, your values change and you start to shift from value to value.

00:46:20.000 Do you, like, do you have long-term goals as far as, like, what you're trying to do with mental coaching?

00:46:29.000 Yeah, I mean, I would like to get into coaching people to be mind coaches.

00:46:36.000 But I want elite people.

00:46:38.000 I don't want...

00:46:41.000 I don't want that.

00:46:42.000 I want people as passionate as me.

00:46:44.000 So, you know, we're going to be doing that in 2016. Colin's got a thing now, so if anyone wants to know about it, they can get me on my website, VinnieShulman.com, or Facebook or whatever, the hypnosis page.

00:46:57.000 And we can tell them about it's got a new sort of...

00:47:01.000 A series of videos where you can go step by step to learn to be a mind coach.

00:47:05.000 My long-term goal is just to keep improving, keep getting better myself, because I love it, reading all the time.

00:47:12.000 I'm quite boring, really, going on about it to people.

00:47:16.000 My long-term goal is, well, look how well Mike Dolce has done.

00:47:20.000 With his diet, you know, and I'd like to be that.

00:47:23.000 I'd like to get that to be the man to go to, the go-to guy.

00:47:29.000 And I have other people that have the same passion, you know, regardless of if it's fighting or not.

00:47:34.000 Just people that just want to achieve or at least get something a little bit further, if not really far.

00:47:41.000 How many people do you work with that are not fighters?

00:47:45.000 Quite a lot.

00:47:46.000 Yeah?

00:47:47.000 Yeah, quite a lot.

00:47:48.000 What's a common thing that they come to you with?

00:47:50.000 Confidence.

00:47:51.000 Everything is confidence.

00:47:52.000 99.9% of stuff is confidence.

00:47:56.000 And just, yeah, confidence.

00:47:57.000 And people come to me, it's always the same thing.

00:48:00.000 They come in, because I work from home.

00:48:03.000 I want to work on Skype or FaceTime, and they always talk about what they don't want.

00:48:07.000 That's the first thing out of everyone's mouth, to talk about what they don't want.

00:48:10.000 And when you ask them what they do want, they still talk about what they don't want.

00:48:13.000 So you have to change the direction of the thought pattern because they're just so focused on, say, it's that rock, and the rock, the rock, the rock, and you have to just move them to where they want to go, and then say, now what do you want?

00:48:24.000 Instead of focusing on that, now where do you want to go?

00:48:26.000 Now what are you doing?

00:48:28.000 Okay, we deal with that in various ways.

00:48:31.000 Timeline therapy, hypnosis, whatever.

00:48:33.000 And then we move them towards where they want to go to.

00:48:37.000 So when you're dealing with someone and their issue is confidence, what are the factors?

00:48:44.000 What are the things that are holding people back?

00:48:47.000 Are there common factors that you find over and over again with people that keep them from being confident?

00:48:54.000 No.

00:48:54.000 This is the Sherlock syndrome, I call it.

00:48:57.000 This is where you have to be like Sherlock.

00:48:59.000 You have to like think, ah, Sherlock Holmes.

00:49:02.000 Sherlock Holmes.

00:49:03.000 And he has to think about it and think, oh, what really is going on in there?

00:49:07.000 That's why it's so cool.

00:49:09.000 That's why it's so exciting because everyone's different and they have this sort of, you know, this thing that keeps them back or whatever.

00:49:16.000 It's strange.

00:49:16.000 Everyone's different.

00:49:17.000 Whether it be a past relationship, whether it be, like you said, bullying, whether it be parents, whatever.

00:49:24.000 Or a current relationship.

00:49:25.000 Or a current relationship, yeah, that's toxic and they shouldn't be in it.

00:49:29.000 I don't tell them not to be because ecologically it's not right.

00:49:33.000 Ecologically?

00:49:35.000 Psychologically?

00:49:35.000 Yeah, psychologically it's not right.

00:49:37.000 Like it's not good for the environment?

00:49:38.000 Yeah, it's not good for the environment.

00:49:40.000 It's bad for the ocean.

00:49:41.000 Toxic, violent language, screaming and fighting with your missus.

00:49:44.000 But no, I just think that They have to figure that out for themselves.

00:49:48.000 They have to figure it out for themselves.

00:49:49.000 And you kind of know anyway.

00:49:50.000 We've met people that you think, you shouldn't be with us.

00:49:53.000 He's bananas or whatever.

00:49:56.000 Yeah, when I was young, I used to try to help those people.

00:49:59.000 I used to try to tell them, hey man, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

00:50:03.000 You don't get no thanks for it.

00:50:04.000 You gotta figure that shit out for yourself.

00:50:05.000 Yeah, you don't get no thanks for it.

00:50:07.000 No, everyone's gonna be mad at you.

00:50:08.000 Her, him, everybody.

00:50:10.000 Yeah.

00:50:11.000 So it is about the environment, the environment around them.

00:50:15.000 Yes, it is ecological, sort of, in some ways.

00:50:18.000 Yeah, and it's also, many times, whatever's holding them back is also what led them to be in that relationship, that toxic relationship in the first place.

00:50:28.000 Yeah, unfortunately, yeah.

00:50:30.000 Yeah, I've met people that their relationships is really essentially like a carryover of their mother.

00:50:36.000 And that's always so odd.

00:50:37.000 It's like I have friends who can't do anything unless they check in with their wife.

00:50:42.000 They have to ask their wife for every purchase.

00:50:44.000 They have to ask their wife for any decision, anything they want to do.

00:50:48.000 They can't say, hey, I want to go to the game with Mike.

00:50:51.000 You know, you can't say that.

00:50:52.000 You have to go and ask permission and see if it's okay and would it be all right.

00:50:58.000 I mean, these are people that aren't even married.

00:51:01.000 But because you travel, and I travel, because I commentate on Infusion and Yokau and stuff, if you had a girlfriend, mine soon's going to be my wife getting married in August, if you had that sort of where you're going, who you're with, blah, blah, blah, you're never going to,

00:51:16.000 it can't work.

00:51:17.000 I've had those before.

00:51:19.000 So have I. They're brutal.

00:51:20.000 It's horrible.

00:51:20.000 Yeah.

00:51:21.000 It's horrible.

00:51:21.000 On both sides.

00:51:22.000 Yeah.

00:51:23.000 You know, it's brutal for the man, it's brutal for the woman, it's brutal for the woman that's asking the man, where you going, what are you doing?

00:51:30.000 It's a terrible mind state for her to be in, too.

00:51:34.000 It's more about them than it is about, you know, it's more about them, what they're going through, their insecurities.

00:51:40.000 I've done that myself.

00:51:41.000 I have done that myself.

00:51:42.000 You feel that.

00:51:43.000 Well, this is very difficult, too, to grow inside of a relationship.

00:51:48.000 Because it seems like you have to have your own shit together before you can attract someone with their shit together.

00:51:53.000 So, if you don't have your shit together, you usually wind up with someone who also doesn't have their shit together.

00:51:59.000 And it's very difficult for the two of you together to work it out.

00:52:03.000 Yeah, like attracts like.

00:52:04.000 Yes.

00:52:05.000 So oftentimes people, like, they really do have to break up in order to get on with their own life.

00:52:10.000 The trouble is to carry it to the next one.

00:52:12.000 They say, oh, that was shit.

00:52:14.000 That didn't work.

00:52:14.000 Let's bring it to the next one.

00:52:16.000 And then it becomes a cyclic behavior.

00:52:18.000 Right.

00:52:18.000 You know, and then it's difficult.

00:52:20.000 Well, that's the weirdest one when you get involved with someone and then somewhere early in the relationship they are screaming at you.

00:52:26.000 You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what the fuck is going on here?

00:52:28.000 What is this?

00:52:29.000 Is this what you do?

00:52:30.000 It's boundaries, isn't it?

00:52:31.000 It's where your boundaries are.

00:52:33.000 Sure.

00:52:33.000 You know, if you've not, you know, you let someone overstep the boundary and go further back and then you end up not being you.

00:52:40.000 It is, and it's also patterns that people fall into because life is very confusing and because life is very stressful and there's a lot going on.

00:52:50.000 So they fall into these patterns of making these same mistakes over and over again from one relationship to the next because there's comfort in those patterns.

00:52:58.000 And you recognize it early on because there aren't any real issues.

00:53:03.000 We've only known each other for a short amount of time.

00:53:05.000 You already fucking screaming at me for nothing?

00:53:07.000 Why are you screaming at me?

00:53:08.000 You're screaming at me because of some other shit that you've got that's trapped.

00:53:12.000 It's not been dealt with.

00:53:13.000 It's an unconscious behavior.

00:53:15.000 It's an unconscious reaction to a situation that's not been resolved.

00:53:19.000 And they think it's normal.

00:53:20.000 It's normal to scream.

00:53:21.000 Yeah.

00:53:21.000 Because maybe they grew up with people screaming at each other or hitting each other or whatever.

00:53:24.000 It's like this.

00:53:25.000 Yes.

00:53:27.000 And then you tolerate it and then increasingly it gets worse.

00:53:31.000 Yeah, and it's interesting how those sort of relationships can become, you can drown in them.

00:53:39.000 Yeah.

00:53:39.000 You know, both parties can drown, because you just can't get out of them, and you're constantly involved in conflict, or the worst is conflict and resolution, conflict and resolution, conflict and resolution, and they get trapped in this high of making up,

00:53:55.000 of fighting and then making up, fighting and making up.

00:53:57.000 Meanwhile, your life's going.

00:53:59.000 Yeah.

00:54:00.000 You're losing days.

00:54:02.000 Oh yeah, you're fucked.

00:54:03.000 Because time is something you're just not going to get back.

00:54:06.000 Ever.

00:54:07.000 You know, regardless how rich you are.

00:54:09.000 I went to a seminar by a lady called Dolores Askoff Nowieski, who's part of the thing called the Servants of Light, which is an esoterical belief school.

00:54:19.000 Servants of Light?

00:54:20.000 Yeah.

00:54:21.000 I hate it already.

00:54:22.000 I know.

00:54:24.000 It's an esoterical thing.

00:54:25.000 It's nothing to do with me.

00:54:26.000 I didn't name it that.

00:54:27.000 Don't blame me.

00:54:28.000 Thank God you didn't.

00:54:28.000 But some of the things that she said, you know, some of the things in the seminar she said are very relevant.

00:54:33.000 You know, she was talking about, tell a story about time, saying that when she was in, she lived in Jersey, which is just at the top of England.

00:54:41.000 And when in 1940-something or other, the Germans were coming to invade and she had to evacuate.

00:54:48.000 So my dad said, well, look, you know, you're not going to...

00:54:50.000 I'm not going to be able to buy anything for your birthday.

00:54:52.000 We're going to have to use all the money to be evacuated because it's going to go and live in Heswall, which is near me in Liverpool.

00:54:57.000 And he said, well, what I'll do is I'll give you a...

00:55:00.000 A book with paper, and I'll give you time.

00:55:01.000 So every time you write a cheque, you want to be with me in that time.

00:55:06.000 And he honoured that time all the time.

00:55:07.000 So it made me think about how important time is.

00:55:09.000 We just don't get a lot of it.

00:55:12.000 You know, I'm 45 now.

00:55:13.000 I was 21 yesterday.

00:55:15.000 You know, in my eyes, you know, my mum died in, when was it?

00:55:20.000 February, now August last year, boom, you know, your mom's there, all of a sudden they're gone.

00:55:24.000 It's very important what you do with your time.

00:55:26.000 I think anyway.

00:55:28.000 It's everything.

00:55:29.000 Yeah, 100%.

00:55:29.000 It's everything.

00:55:30.000 It's also very difficult to stop and take account of what's going on in your life and try to figure out whether or not it's serving you to the best of its ability.

00:55:41.000 If time is serving you, or if you are serving your own life, if your focus and what you're doing, your actions are serving Your own existence to the best of your ability or whether or not you're trapped in momentum.

00:55:53.000 Because that's often the case of people.

00:55:55.000 Being trapped in momentum could rob you of your life and you won't even realize it until it's too late.

00:56:01.000 It ruts, isn't it?

00:56:02.000 And then you're that 60-year-old guy on the hill looking down at the guy's bullying.

00:56:05.000 And you're looking out the window with your blanket going, bastard.

00:56:08.000 Can I go again?

00:56:09.000 No, you can't.

00:56:10.000 There's no second throw of the dices that you know.

00:56:13.000 No.

00:56:13.000 Yeah, it's just the way it is.

00:56:15.000 But it's also really hard to figure out if you're trapped in an environment where the people around you haven't figured it out and they're stuck in some patterns, maybe alcoholism and cigarettes and all the bullshit that's involved with whatever they've got going on in their life.

00:56:29.000 Crime or drama or whatever the fuck it is.

00:56:31.000 It's environment as well, isn't it?

00:56:33.000 It's the environment that you're in.

00:56:34.000 Sure, in the patterns that you develop.

00:56:36.000 That's really hard for people, to break out of the patterns that they grew up in.

00:56:41.000 Yeah, it is.

00:56:42.000 It is, but it's part and parcel of the job that I do.

00:56:45.000 You can't say any more part and parcel.

00:56:47.000 Did I say that loads of times?

00:56:49.000 Five, I think.

00:56:49.000 I did a podcast the other week, and I kept saying, um, all the time.

00:56:53.000 Um.

00:56:54.000 Yeah, that like is one that drives me crazy.

00:56:57.000 Like, if I catch myself saying like, like, if you like, I don't know, like, there's maybe like a way to like, oh, shut the fuck up.

00:57:05.000 You know, if I catch myself over liking or overing you knowing, you know, there's like, you know, it's like, the worst is, you know what I'm saying?

00:57:15.000 Like, that's a rapper thing.

00:57:17.000 Yeah, well, we don't get any rappers in England.

00:57:19.000 You don't get rappers?

00:57:20.000 You have rappers over there.

00:57:21.000 We don't have proper rappers, though, do we?

00:57:23.000 We don't have proper ones.

00:57:24.000 You've got Scroobius Pip over there.

00:57:26.000 Do we?

00:57:27.000 How dare you?

00:57:27.000 That's how in touch I am with hip-hop.

00:57:29.000 You should get in touch.

00:57:29.000 I remember Dougie Fresh.

00:57:31.000 Oh, my goodness.

00:57:32.000 Dougie Fresh.

00:57:33.000 I remember Dougie Fresh.

00:57:34.000 And that's it.

00:57:35.000 What about Biggie?

00:57:36.000 Roxanne.

00:57:36.000 I remember Roxanne.

00:57:37.000 What about Biggie?

00:57:38.000 Oh, Biggie was good.

00:57:39.000 Come on, son.

00:57:39.000 Good.

00:57:40.000 Good?

00:57:41.000 Eh.

00:57:42.000 Well, you know.

00:57:42.000 The greatest?

00:57:43.000 Alright, the greatest then.

00:57:44.000 Without a doubt.

00:57:45.000 The best ever.

00:57:46.000 The best that ever did it.

00:57:47.000 He was indeed, wasn't he?

00:57:48.000 He's the motherfucker right there.

00:57:49.000 What did he sing?

00:57:50.000 What did he sing?

00:57:51.000 Put one of his records on for me.

00:57:53.000 How dare you?

00:57:55.000 Biggie, Biggie, Biggie, can't you see?

00:57:56.000 Sometimes the words hypnotize me.

00:57:58.000 I just listen to classical music.

00:58:00.000 Biggie, dun-dun-dun.

00:58:02.000 Kick in the door, wave in the four-four.

00:58:05.000 All you heard was, Papa, don't hit me no more.

00:58:07.000 You have missed your way.

00:58:08.000 You think I should have been a rapper?

00:58:10.000 I think you should.

00:58:10.000 I think you're a shitty mind coach, if you really believe that.

00:58:15.000 Maybe.

00:58:16.000 Maybe we should swap.

00:58:17.000 Have you ever told someone that they should be doing something different?

00:58:19.000 Have you ever told someone, hey man, you need to fucking quit your job and become a rock and roll star or anything?

00:58:25.000 No.

00:58:26.000 No?

00:58:26.000 No.

00:58:27.000 I've told people they shouldn't fight.

00:58:29.000 Really?

00:58:29.000 Yeah.

00:58:30.000 Because they're not good at it or because they take too much damage?

00:58:33.000 Because the coach is a shit.

00:58:34.000 Oh, okay.

00:58:36.000 We know that.

00:58:36.000 You've seen fucking...

00:58:38.000 Why, oh, I've fought, I've only had one fight, and I'm fighting B-class.

00:58:44.000 In B-class in England, you can kneel to the head.

00:58:46.000 Oh, I'm fighting B-class.

00:58:47.000 I'm like, it's not the best idea in the world.

00:58:51.000 You say it nicely.

00:58:52.000 So you told them they shouldn't fight because their coaches were shit.

00:58:56.000 No, not coaches.

00:58:58.000 It's a risk.

00:59:00.000 You know, it's an early risk.

00:59:02.000 Well, why would you tell them that instead of telling them to get a better coach?

00:59:06.000 Yeah, you do.

00:59:06.000 You do?

00:59:07.000 Invertently.

00:59:08.000 You just push them in the right direction.

00:59:11.000 And some people just, I don't know, some people shouldn't fight and never really put it together.

00:59:18.000 Well, you did what I do for the UFC, for It's Showtime, for many other kickboxing fights.

00:59:24.000 And when you do that, you do see people that kind of don't have a chance.

00:59:28.000 Yeah.

00:59:29.000 You see a bunch of issues.

00:59:32.000 Yeah.

00:59:33.000 You know, like, whatever it is.

00:59:35.000 They're so far off where they need to be.

00:59:38.000 Yeah.

00:59:39.000 It's car crash, isn't it?

00:59:40.000 It's car crash TV sometimes.

00:59:42.000 Yeah.

00:59:43.000 It is.

00:59:44.000 It's car crash TV, but, like, it's...

00:59:47.000 It's just part and parcel of what they do, isn't it?

00:59:48.000 You did it again?

00:59:49.000 You part and parcel of it again?

00:59:50.000 I just did it again, you son of a bitch.

00:59:51.000 I am sorry.

00:59:52.000 But like, um, like mismatches trouble me more than almost anything.

00:59:56.000 And it's one of the things that I really like about MMA as opposed to boxing, is boxing, guys will get tune-up fights.

01:00:01.000 Well, what's that catchweight thing about?

01:00:03.000 I don't get the catch weight thing.

01:00:05.000 Catch weight for MMA, it's usually because someone got a last-minute fight, or short-notice fight, and they don't want to cut all the weight.

01:00:14.000 Like, say if a guy fights at 155, like a Gleason Tebow, he fights at 155, but he really walks around about 185, and he cuts a lot of fucking weight, and so he has a process to cut that weight, and it's pretty scientific.

01:00:27.000 They've got to kind of stay with that process, and if they don't, Like Benson Henderson when he fought Brendan Thatch.

01:00:33.000 Benson Henderson, former UFC lightweight champion, took a fight at 170 because it was a short-notice fight.

01:00:38.000 Stepped in and fought at 170. And the reason why he fought at 170 is because this way he wouldn't have to cut the weight and he really wouldn't be able to take a short-notice fight at 155. It's just too hard to lose the weight.

01:00:50.000 They have to do it over a long period of time, otherwise they're significantly weakened.

01:00:55.000 You know, they get down to a certain, you know, 10, 15 pounds away, and then they dehydrate themselves down.

01:01:00.000 I didn't get why, you know, when Cotto fought Daniel Geel a couple of weeks ago?

01:01:05.000 Yes.

01:01:05.000 Why they made Daniel Geel way lighter, yet Cotto's got the middleweight title of 160. I didn't get that.

01:01:12.000 I don't know what they agreed to.

01:01:15.000 Yeah, they agreed to.

01:01:16.000 It was 154, right?

01:01:17.000 Yeah, something like that.

01:01:18.000 And I just thought, eh?

01:01:19.000 I didn't get it.

01:01:20.000 Maybe strategy?

01:01:22.000 Yeah, I understand it's strategy and it's a business.

01:01:25.000 But when was the days where that's what you weigh?

01:01:28.000 That's what he weighs.

01:01:29.000 He's the champion at that.

01:01:30.000 What did Gil weigh?

01:01:31.000 Is he walking around a lighter weight?

01:01:33.000 Is he a lighter guy?

01:01:34.000 No, he is a middleweight.

01:01:35.000 Right.

01:01:35.000 I don't know if he's a big middleweight.

01:01:37.000 Well, maybe Cotto's thinking about fighting Floyd.

01:01:39.000 And so he's working on fighting lighter and being lighter guys.

01:01:43.000 Yeah, but still he's...

01:01:45.000 That's the big payday, right?

01:01:46.000 Indeed.

01:01:47.000 But it's like 160. Yeah.

01:01:49.000 I mean, he is the champ at 160. And also there's the Golovkin fight, which is 160, that he might be next in line for Golovkin.

01:01:56.000 Have they decided, is it going to be Cotto versus Canelo?

01:01:59.000 I think the big fight The big fight.

01:02:02.000 Do you think that Cotto and Mayweather will sell?

01:02:05.000 I don't think so.

01:02:07.000 No.

01:02:07.000 But I think Canelo and Cotto is...

01:02:10.000 Canelo and Cotto is a big fight.

01:02:12.000 It's Puerto Rican versus Mexican.

01:02:13.000 It's always big, isn't it?

01:02:14.000 They don't like each other for some strange reason.

01:02:16.000 They don't.

01:02:17.000 So that would be good.

01:02:19.000 They speak the same language.

01:02:20.000 I don't get it.

01:02:20.000 Yeah, they do.

01:02:21.000 I don't know.

01:02:22.000 Who do you think would win?

01:02:24.000 Canelo or Cotto?

01:02:28.000 It's hard to tell.

01:02:30.000 Koto certainly has taken more beatings.

01:02:34.000 I think Canelo's just got more weapons.

01:02:36.000 Yeah, well, he hits a lot harder.

01:02:37.000 He's a scary fuck.

01:02:38.000 There he is.

01:02:39.000 The Margarito fight, I think, took a lot out of Koto.

01:02:43.000 That was a fucked up fight when you find out his history of loading up his wraps with plaster.

01:02:48.000 That Judo fight was hard.

01:02:50.000 Yes.

01:02:50.000 The Mosley fight wasn't easy.

01:02:52.000 No, it wasn't.

01:02:52.000 He's had some real hard fights.

01:02:54.000 But the Margarito fight was fucked.

01:02:57.000 When you find out that he most likely loaded up his gloves with plaster.

01:03:01.000 What does this say?

01:03:03.000 Cotto Canelo, winner to fight Golovkin.

01:03:05.000 It's supposed to be in November right now.

01:03:06.000 They haven't officially booked it.

01:03:08.000 Ooh, I'll see that.

01:03:09.000 Fuck yeah.

01:03:10.000 Cotto Canelo would be a great fighter and the winner fighting Golovkin would be giant.

01:03:15.000 But nobody wants to fight Golovkin.

01:03:17.000 Because only boxing fans know who Golovkin is.

01:03:19.000 Every Mexican on the planet knows who Canelo is.

01:03:21.000 Yeah.

01:03:22.000 You know, a lot of Spanish fans and boxing fans know who Canelo is.

01:03:25.000 We see him knock out Rubio with that left hook.

01:03:27.000 Mm-hmm.

01:03:28.000 He's a motherfucker, dude.

01:03:29.000 Boom.

01:03:30.000 Yeah, he's a motherfucker.

01:03:30.000 He hits very hard.

01:03:32.000 But really, for me, it highlights my appreciation for Mayweather's technique.

01:03:36.000 I mean, say what you want about him as a human being.

01:03:38.000 He seems to be, you know, a less than favorable human being.

01:03:42.000 Yeah.

01:03:42.000 But goddamn, as a boxer, he's magnificent.

01:03:44.000 You can't but admire his talent.

01:03:46.000 He's magnificent.

01:03:48.000 He's magnificent.

01:03:49.000 I mean, he's the best ever, in my opinion.

01:03:52.000 I don't think he's the most exciting ever.

01:03:54.000 I don't think he's the most fan favorite, but it's the art of hitting and not getting hit.

01:03:59.000 Who the fuck is better?

01:04:00.000 You know, I had this conversation with Max Kellerman about it.

01:04:03.000 He was like, Sugar Ray Robinson is so much better than him.

01:04:05.000 I'm like, Sugar Ray Robinson lost to Jake LaMotta.

01:04:07.000 You're telling me that Floyd Mayweather would lose to Jake LaMotta?

01:04:10.000 I tell you you're out of your fucking mind.

01:04:12.000 I don't think Jake LaMotta would lay a glove on him.

01:04:14.000 I think Floyd would be all over the fucking place.

01:04:16.000 He'd be slipping to the left and slipping to the right and popping that jab and lead right hands and tying him up.

01:04:22.000 I just can't see him staying.

01:04:23.000 It's always going to be the way, though, isn't it?

01:04:26.000 If he fought him, he'd be blah, blah, blah.

01:04:28.000 People are always going to love that.

01:04:28.000 They always do that.

01:04:29.000 They always do that.

01:04:30.000 But I just think Sugar Ray took a lot of...

01:04:33.000 He was an amazing fighter.

01:04:34.000 But it was a different era, different mentality, different style of fighting back then, different knowledge database.

01:04:42.000 People knew more about the effects of fighting now.

01:04:45.000 And sport evolves, doesn't it?

01:04:46.000 Yes.

01:04:46.000 Technique evolves.

01:04:47.000 Always will.

01:04:49.000 That's one of the most exciting things about MMA today is that you're seeing these guys like these Yair Rodriguez's, these young kids that are coming up 23 years of age that have so many fucking tools!

01:05:00.000 It's like you compare them to young people coming up 10-15 years ago.

01:05:04.000 There's no comparison.

01:05:06.000 In MMA it's a much larger jump than boxing.

01:05:10.000 We've got, on Infusion Live, we've got a couple of kids called Ilyas Belide and Mohamed Jaroya, two Moroccans who train.

01:05:19.000 A lot of tough Moroccans, huh?

01:05:21.000 They can fight.

01:05:22.000 They're Moroccan magic, I call it.

01:05:24.000 They are just...

01:05:26.000 Badr Hari.

01:05:27.000 Oh, badass.

01:05:28.000 Badr is such a fucking psycho.

01:05:30.000 I've commentated on him loads and loads of times.

01:05:32.000 If that guy could just stay out of jail and stop breaking people's legs and shit.

01:05:36.000 Yeah.

01:05:36.000 You know, he could just behave himself and stop being naughty.

01:05:39.000 Well, it's the reason why he's so good, though, is he's a fucking psycho.

01:05:42.000 It's part of the reason why he's so good.

01:05:44.000 He's mean.

01:05:45.000 I'm not going to say anything derogatory about him because he might find me.

01:05:48.000 Well, the derogatory things that I'm saying are all positive.

01:05:52.000 The psycho stuff is the reason why he's so fucking good, you know?

01:05:55.000 Yeah, he's the most exciting kickboxer in the world.

01:05:58.000 But he's so aggressive.

01:05:59.000 Have a look at Geroya and Ilyas Belize, you can see them.

01:06:03.000 Kickboxing, is kickboxing at a higher level now than it was 20 years ago?

01:06:07.000 Yeah.

01:06:08.000 Much higher?

01:06:08.000 Yeah.

01:06:09.000 I'd say they're miles.

01:06:10.000 Giroya's 19. You know, Ilyas is...

01:06:14.000 Giroya's 19. No, Ilyas is 18. Giroya's...

01:06:18.000 18, sorry.

01:06:19.000 Ilyas is 19. Only young kids.

01:06:22.000 Wow.

01:06:22.000 But, like, they've had 110 fights.

01:06:24.000 That's insane.

01:06:25.000 They fought, like, you know, amateur and...

01:06:27.000 That's insane.

01:06:28.000 19, 100 fights.

01:06:30.000 Honestly, Joe, they're so nice kids.

01:06:31.000 They're so nice.

01:06:33.000 But getting in them rings and they just fight like...

01:06:37.000 And then when they get out, they're treats like, hey, look, I had hamburgers and fries.

01:06:41.000 I'm very happy.

01:06:42.000 And you're like, you know, our other people are like celebrating and getting drunk and all that.

01:06:46.000 They're just, oh, look, chips.

01:06:48.000 Wow.

01:06:49.000 Wow, hooray.

01:06:50.000 Just keep them away from pussy.

01:06:51.000 Yeah, well, yeah.

01:06:53.000 That's how it starts.

01:06:56.000 Yeah, so he's just like, yeah.

01:07:00.000 They are the superb, really, really good kids, you know, just so fast and sharp and technique and everything.

01:07:07.000 Well, that's one of the things that perturbs me the most, or disturbs me the most about Glory.

01:07:12.000 It's like, I just, I see it, I see the level, like the Nikki Holtzkins and, you know, the high-level fighter.

01:07:18.000 Nikki Holtzkins got into boxing now, I think.

01:07:20.000 I don't know if he's doing it as well or he's going into it, but I know he's boxed a few times now.

01:07:25.000 Really?

01:07:26.000 Yeah.

01:07:26.000 So he might become a boxer instead?

01:07:28.000 Maybe.

01:07:28.000 I know he's doing it though.

01:07:30.000 And it's not really common for a Dutch fighter to go into boxing.

01:07:32.000 I think Tyron's dabbling with it, is he?

01:07:35.000 Yeah.

01:07:35.000 I think so as well.

01:07:36.000 It's not really...

01:07:37.000 Holland has not really got many boxers.

01:07:41.000 Well, Tyrone fought his last fight because it was recovering from his broken leg that he got from Gokan Saki, which was devastating.

01:07:48.000 It's really rare, too, that you see a high-level kickboxer break his leg like that.

01:07:52.000 That was unusual.

01:07:53.000 Yeah.

01:07:54.000 But I remember him saying to me years ago at Showtime in Brussels, he said that he wanted to fight David Hay.

01:08:01.000 He said, I want to fight David Hay.

01:08:03.000 I want to do boxing.

01:08:04.000 I want to fight David Hay.

01:08:05.000 And he said that to me.

01:08:06.000 David Hayes seems to me to be a really good fighter, but a little too small to beat a guy like Vladimir.

01:08:13.000 Like the Klitschkos, they're just fucking these giant guys.

01:08:16.000 He can't really reach them, you know?

01:08:19.000 No, he's fighting, I think Vladimir's next fight will be against Tyron Fiori.

01:08:23.000 Tyson Fiori from England.

01:08:25.000 Who's the funniest guy ever.

01:08:27.000 His tweets are funny.

01:08:28.000 Yeah, he seems hilarious.

01:08:30.000 Does he have a chance?

01:08:32.000 Do you think he has a chance?

01:08:34.000 I hope so.

01:08:35.000 You hope so.

01:08:36.000 I don't know.

01:08:37.000 I don't know.

01:08:37.000 What I thought was interesting about Vladimir Klitschko's last fight is that the referee was admonishing him for holding.

01:08:43.000 He was saying he was going to take a point away from him for holding.

01:08:45.000 That fucked his whole game up.

01:08:47.000 Because his whole game was like, pop that jab, pop that right hand, tie you up, wrestle you.

01:08:51.000 So you fight Povetkin?

01:08:52.000 Yes.

01:08:52.000 And that was like bop, bop, jab and grab and pushing him down and stuff.

01:08:55.000 That's his whole game.

01:08:56.000 And as soon as that goes away, then he's forced to stand with guys and trade and exchange.

01:09:02.000 And, you know, he's been knocked out a few times.

01:09:04.000 Will he do that against Fury?

01:09:06.000 Because Fury's bigger than him.

01:09:08.000 Fiori's actually bigger than...

01:09:10.000 I hope Fiori wins.

01:09:13.000 He's from Manchester.

01:09:13.000 He's from the same area as me.

01:09:15.000 Right, but that's just nationalism.

01:09:16.000 If you take away that objectively...

01:09:18.000 It's not easy.

01:09:20.000 Objectively, do you think you could beat him?

01:09:21.000 It's not easy.

01:09:22.000 Not easy.

01:09:23.000 So that's a no.

01:09:23.000 I'll say no.

01:09:25.000 But he could.

01:09:25.000 He could.

01:09:26.000 Also, Vladimir is...

01:09:28.000 He could, because Vladimir's...

01:09:28.000 Who was the last person to knock him out?

01:09:30.000 Was it Corey Sanders?

01:09:32.000 No.

01:09:32.000 Someone knocked him out after Corey Sanders, right?

01:09:34.000 What was his name?

01:09:36.000 I don't know.

01:09:36.000 I remember it at 4 o'clock in the morning for no reason.

01:09:40.000 Black guy, American.

01:09:42.000 Yeah.

01:09:43.000 Lamont Brewster.

01:09:44.000 Yes, thank you.

01:09:45.000 He knocked him out after Corey, right?

01:09:48.000 Yeah.

01:09:48.000 So it was like two knockout losses in a row, wasn't it?

01:09:51.000 They're just on it, aren't they?

01:09:53.000 They're just consummate professionals.

01:09:55.000 Well, that's another Emanuel Stewart success story.

01:09:58.000 Emanuel Stewart figured out how to get him to box right, and probably engineered that whole style that he's developed, too, this just pop-and-grab style.

01:10:07.000 Well, none of Manuel's stewards were left hookers, were they?

01:10:11.000 They were all long jab, right hands, you know, like Hearns.

01:10:14.000 They wasn't really, like, big left hookers.

01:10:16.000 What about McCallum?

01:10:17.000 Didn't McCallum fight under Emmanuel?

01:10:19.000 Mike McCallum, the body snatcher?

01:10:20.000 Maybe.

01:10:21.000 Famous left hook to Donald Curry, left to the body and left upstairs.

01:10:24.000 Maybe, but was he with Hearns then?

01:10:26.000 Was he with Andrew Stewart then?

01:10:28.000 I believe he was a cronk guy.

01:10:29.000 I believe McCallum.

01:10:31.000 Yeah, you're right, because there's a video of him sparring with McClellan.

01:10:36.000 Oh, with McClellan?

01:10:38.000 That's just, that is classic.

01:10:39.000 That's just, it was so amazing to watch.

01:10:43.000 It's art, isn't it?

01:10:44.000 It's real art.

01:10:45.000 It really is an art, but it's also an art with a very short amount of Time you could pursue it and a very limited number of times you can get hit.

01:10:56.000 It is a short existence.

01:11:00.000 That's one thing that used to disturb me most about MMA gyms, maybe say 10, 15 years ago.

01:11:05.000 These guys really didn't have, I shouldn't say these guys, some gyms really didn't have the best, most technical striking coaches that had a deep knowledge and understanding of striking.

01:11:17.000 So these guys would be beating the fuck out of each other.

01:11:20.000 Just like throwing bombs at each other in the gym.

01:11:24.000 You would watch it and they weren't Working on technique they weren't working.

01:11:28.000 They weren't sparring to get better at the art of hitting and not getting hit They were just wailing on each other and you know that was toughening them up in quotes air quotes and then they would go into the gym and or go into the ring and fight and they were carrying all the damage that they were accumulating in these sparring sessions and a lot of these guys now are kind of speaking up like Jamie Varner who's a former WEC champion and Top lightweight contender in the UFC just recently retired and he's talking about the amount of sparring

01:11:58.000 that he did and how fucked up it was.

01:12:00.000 Also, he was sparring with much larger guys.

01:12:02.000 He was sparring with Ryan Bader, who fights at 205, and he's fighting at 55. And Ryan Bader's world class at 205, so he's fighting a guy 50 fucking pounds heavier than him.

01:12:11.000 He's sparring him in the gym.

01:12:12.000 It's madness.

01:12:13.000 It still takes its wear and tear, doesn't it?

01:12:15.000 Fuck yeah.

01:12:16.000 The kid just had his debut the last UFC that I... I think he was in Brazil, was it?

01:12:21.000 I know, anyway.

01:12:22.000 Darren Till.

01:12:24.000 He's from just the same...

01:12:26.000 He lives on the same road as me.

01:12:28.000 He lives in Brazil now.

01:12:29.000 Darren Till, he's good, man.

01:12:31.000 He's South By.

01:12:32.000 He's a very, very good kid.

01:12:33.000 Watch out for him.

01:12:34.000 There's a lot of good talent now.

01:12:36.000 This is an amazing time for MMA. It's such a young and blossoming sport.

01:12:43.000 The level of striking is slowly and steadily getting faster and faster and better and better.

01:12:49.000 It's really an amazing thing to watch.

01:12:51.000 The jiu-jitsu is getting better.

01:12:52.000 Everything is getting better.

01:12:53.000 There's no comparison whatsoever.

01:12:55.000 I mean, I don't know what the difference between 1993 kickboxing was.

01:12:58.000 I mean, I know if you watch like...

01:13:01.000 Andy Hoog or Mike Bernardo, they were very good, but they're probably not as good as Badr Hari, right?

01:13:07.000 But the difference between, say, fighters from UFC 1 and fighters of today, I mean, you're talking about a massive evolution, like generations of evolution, like a thousand years of growth.

01:13:18.000 It's amazing.

01:13:19.000 There's no comparison whatsoever.

01:13:22.000 It's all learning very quickly from mistakes or what people have done before.

01:13:26.000 Learning very quickly and also accumulating the techniques from other disciplines.

01:13:32.000 Because a lot of the guys that started out, they're really only good at one thing.

01:13:35.000 Either they're really good at striking or they're really good at grappling.

01:13:38.000 That was basically it.

01:13:39.000 But you're getting these guys today that are great at everything.

01:13:42.000 And that's just...

01:13:44.000 It's more complete, isn't it?

01:13:45.000 It's a complete art.

01:13:47.000 It was fragmented, wasn't it?

01:13:48.000 When the first UFC started, it was fragmented with people doing jiu-jitsu.

01:13:52.000 It kicked me off.

01:13:53.000 Pat Smith was it?

01:13:53.000 Was he?

01:13:54.000 Pat Smith?

01:13:54.000 Yeah, one of the first ones.

01:13:56.000 Yeah, he was devastating.

01:13:57.000 What's his name?

01:13:58.000 The other one, the Dutch guy.

01:13:59.000 Which guy?

01:14:01.000 Orlando Witt.

01:14:02.000 Orlando Witt, yeah, the Thai boxer.

01:14:03.000 I've seen him fight Thai boxing.

01:14:04.000 I've seen him live twice.

01:14:05.000 He was tough.

01:14:07.000 Just unorthodox.

01:14:09.000 Yeah, he was dangerous.

01:14:11.000 Yeah, same trainer as Ramon Decker.

01:14:12.000 Oh, yeah?

01:14:13.000 Cole Hammers, who's with Glory now.

01:14:15.000 He's the matchmaker for Glory.

01:14:16.000 He trained him, yeah.

01:14:18.000 Yeah, he was an interesting guy early on in the beginning.

01:14:22.000 Very, very good Thai boxer, but a good example of a guy who didn't know how to grapple.

01:14:26.000 And he would get taken down to the ground and just smashed.

01:14:28.000 Yeah, and he got beat by a Dutch kid, wasn't it?

01:14:31.000 Mm-hmm.

01:14:31.000 Like the elbow, wasn't it?

01:14:32.000 Yeah.

01:14:34.000 Goddammit, what was his name?

01:14:35.000 Remco Pardue or something?

01:14:36.000 Remco Pardue.

01:14:37.000 That was it, yeah.

01:14:37.000 Yeah, Remco got him in a headlock and took him to the ground and just blasted his brains out with elbows.

01:14:43.000 I mean, he elbowed him like four or five times while he was unconscious.

01:14:47.000 That was an important fight for people to realize that ninjutsu's bullshit.

01:14:54.000 A lot of people really believed they were going to do karate chops on people.

01:15:04.000 That's also one of the reasons why performance enhancing drugs are so prevalent in MMA is because there's so many different things you have to work on.

01:15:11.000 Like, if you're a boxer, okay, what do you have to do?

01:15:13.000 Well, if you do your road work, and then you're going to do your boxing work.

01:15:17.000 You know, you do your sparring or your pad work.

01:15:19.000 I mean, that's what you do.

01:15:20.000 You spar X amount of days per week.

01:15:22.000 The other days, you're hitting pads and working the bag and doing your combinations.

01:15:25.000 But you're only working on one skill.

01:15:27.000 In MMA, you're not even just working on boxing when it comes to striking.

01:15:31.000 You've got to train elbows.

01:15:33.000 You've got to train kicks.

01:15:34.000 You've got to train knees.

01:15:35.000 You've got to train...

01:15:37.000 A different stance because you're worried about being taken down, so you have to work on your sprawl, you have to work on your takedown defense, underhooks, wizards, step away from the cage, how to get back up, then you have to work on your jujitsu, you have to work on sweeps, you have to work on actual submissions, and you have to figure out,

01:15:53.000 like, how much can I do?

01:15:54.000 Yeah, and you have to get fit as well.

01:15:56.000 Exactly.

01:15:57.000 We see a guy like Cain Velasquez, you never see that guy attempt a submission.

01:16:01.000 Never attempted a submission in all of his UFC fights.

01:16:04.000 Because it's only so much shit you can do.

01:16:06.000 So he takes guys down, he just beats them up.

01:16:08.000 You know, instead of trying to learn all the chokes and all the...

01:16:13.000 I mean, I'm sure he probably knows them, but applying them in an actual fight situation, it's almost like there's too much to learn.

01:16:20.000 When I went to UFC, when Ross Pearson fought Cole Miller, And then I realised how dangerous these guys are.

01:16:31.000 You know, I thought, shit, they can just kick, they can get you on the floor and break your neck.

01:16:36.000 You know, and that, tapping out, is don't kill me.

01:16:38.000 Yes.

01:16:39.000 Basically, don't break my arm, don't break my leg, don't kill me.

01:16:43.000 Yeah.

01:16:43.000 That's, it's very, it's reality, isn't it?

01:16:48.000 It's real.

01:16:48.000 It's real combat, isn't it?

01:16:50.000 It certainly is.

01:16:51.000 Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why MMA has become so popular is because it's so difficult to go from that to like Floyd Mayweather versus Pacquiao, where it's like not much happens.

01:17:02.000 There's like a lot of movement, which I loved.

01:17:04.000 I loved that fight.

01:17:05.000 But the reality of the variables, like the different variables that exist in MMA, where a guy can take you down, a guy can kick your legs, a guy can do so many different things to you.

01:17:14.000 You can't just stand in front of him and shoulder roll and box and then clinch.

01:17:17.000 There's just so much more going on.

01:17:19.000 The clinch is just the beginning.

01:17:21.000 They're going to press you up against the cage.

01:17:23.000 They're going to pull your ankles out from under you.

01:17:24.000 They're going to mount you.

01:17:25.000 Elbow you to the face.

01:17:26.000 They're going to cut you open.

01:17:27.000 There's going to be a lot going on.

01:17:28.000 It's not nearly as simple to defend yourself as it is in a boxing ring.

01:17:33.000 It's true because, I mean, it's just like looking at them, they deserve the belt.

01:17:38.000 To get that belt, the UFC belt, they must deserve it because of the stuff they have to go through.

01:17:43.000 To get there, to get where they want to get to, to get where they want to get is...

01:17:48.000 Well, there's just a beat the fucking murderer's row that you have to go through to get to any shot at a title.

01:17:55.000 It's like the guys you have to go through today.

01:17:58.000 Anybody that's fighting for a title today, like, fuck, man, you gotta earn that.

01:18:02.000 There's a goddamn massive group of contenders in every weight class that are dangerous as shit.

01:18:10.000 That's why you got to have the right mindset.

01:18:11.000 Yeah.

01:18:12.000 You've got to have the right mindset.

01:18:14.000 Do you anticipate that this mental training thing is going to be a part of every fighter's camp in the future?

01:18:26.000 I think it should be.

01:18:27.000 I think it should be, yeah.

01:18:28.000 I think it should be.

01:18:28.000 Because you can get, you know, they can be in shape, they can, you know, the strength and conditioning, the right diet, and then if their heads are not right, their body doesn't perform.

01:18:38.000 Now, what about applying that to kids?

01:18:41.000 What about applying that to kids in school?

01:18:43.000 Not fighters, just people in school.

01:18:45.000 I mean, especially in high school or in college where you're about to go out into the world and so much of your success or failure is predicated on your attitude, your mindset, and how your brain is organized.

01:19:00.000 Yeah, processing information.

01:19:01.000 Yeah.

01:19:02.000 Yeah, I think a lot of it is just...

01:19:05.000 It's not really...

01:19:06.000 It should be...

01:19:08.000 There's so much stuff that you can do that can help people learn and take in information differently than just the cliché, read that, that's what you've got to do, you know what I mean?

01:19:22.000 That's why it's so interesting, because there's so many different types of people, ways of thinking.

01:19:28.000 You know, like we did earlier, we did the hackle, I always remember, where we...

01:19:31.000 Yeah, why don't you explain what that is?

01:19:33.000 Hakala is a slight self-induced, all hypnosis is self-induced.

01:19:38.000 Hakala is a self-induced hypnosis thing where you basically find a spot on the wall that's higher than your eye line.

01:19:46.000 So you imagine that you're looking through the middle of your eyebrows and what you do is you focus on a spot on the wall.

01:19:53.000 And you just allow yourself to just imagine that you can see all the way to the left and all the way to the right.

01:19:59.000 You can imagine that you can see really high above yourself and below yourself.

01:20:03.000 And then you can imagine that you can see 360 degrees.

01:20:06.000 And what it does is it opens your periphery, opens your peripheral vision.

01:20:10.000 So it gives you a slight hypnotic state and a slight, well, a more feeling of wellness in a way, you know, a relaxing feeling.

01:20:19.000 And what we did was you were telling me to concentrate on that spot and then visualize magnets.

01:20:28.000 Yeah, that was different.

01:20:29.000 What we did was we did hackalow first to kind of lead you into a hypnotic state.

01:20:36.000 You see these things on these rapid inductions and I went on a course of rapid inductions where What is that?

01:20:45.000 Rapid inductions, they call it snap inductions, what they do is, it's like you put, it's like a shock, so you shock the cysts, you shock them, and then you go sleep, or whatever, and it puts them under very quickly.

01:20:58.000 You see it, you can see it on YouTube and all sorts, so I don't, I can do them.

01:21:03.000 They're very showy techniques as well, but I don't really dig them.

01:21:08.000 How does it work?

01:21:09.000 Like shock induction?

01:21:11.000 Because your mind needs information.

01:21:13.000 Your mind needs, your unconscious needs information.

01:21:16.000 So you can, like, there's one where you shake hands with someone.

01:21:21.000 So when they go to shake your hand, you break the pattern and make them look at their own hand.

01:21:27.000 And then you say, look at me, look at that.

01:21:29.000 Focus on that.

01:21:29.000 It's a confusion technique.

01:21:31.000 And then you say, just focus on your hand and then push your hands together and head sleep.

01:21:34.000 And they go under.

01:21:36.000 Just like that?

01:21:37.000 Yes, sir.

01:21:39.000 Well, why do they go under?

01:21:40.000 Why don't they go, what the fuck are you doing with my hand, man?

01:21:42.000 Well, there's always that possibility.

01:21:45.000 Hence, I've seen it done.

01:21:47.000 I have done it with people.

01:21:49.000 But it's all...

01:21:50.000 I've done it when I've been in therapy with the client already because I'm talking hypnotic language and do various things and stuff and just maneuver them into that state.

01:22:00.000 So I don't really...

01:22:01.000 You see people walking up on the street and these treat hypnosis and all that, which is...

01:22:05.000 Street hypnosis?

01:22:06.000 Yeah, there's a few guys that do street hypnosis that are very good.

01:22:10.000 Vince Lynch.

01:22:10.000 He's very good.

01:22:12.000 Did he do it, like, as a show?

01:22:14.000 Was on television or something?

01:22:15.000 No, he was doing it in the street in Vegas.

01:22:17.000 He was making people's hands stick to walls and...

01:22:20.000 What?

01:22:21.000 Really?

01:22:21.000 Yeah.

01:22:22.000 But I don't see...

01:22:23.000 It's good, and it's...

01:22:25.000 Have you never seen it?

01:22:26.000 No.

01:22:26.000 Oh, yeah, they do it.

01:22:27.000 Yeah.

01:22:28.000 Street hypnosis.

01:22:29.000 I've seen street magic.

01:22:30.000 It's not street hypnosis.

01:22:32.000 Huh.

01:22:32.000 Yeah, so they make people forget their names or, you know, count...

01:22:36.000 Remove the number four, so they go one, two, three, five, six, seven, eight, nine, seven, eleven.

01:22:42.000 But it's fun to watch, but I... It doesn't...

01:22:46.000 Well, that doesn't interest you because what you're trying to do is improve people or help them improve their lives.

01:22:52.000 Not, oh, he looks stupid.

01:22:55.000 Well, when I was a kid, when I was first starting out doing stand-up, there was a guy in Rhode Island named Frank Santos.

01:23:01.000 And he was an R-rated hypnotist.

01:23:03.000 And up until that point, I thought hypnosis was bullshit.

01:23:06.000 Until I saw this guy over and over again.

01:23:08.000 Many, many, many, many, many times.

01:23:10.000 He had a night once a week at Stitch's Comedy Club in Boston.

01:23:13.000 So I saw him...

01:23:15.000 Dozens and dozens of times and he would hypnotize giant and he knew when people were under and when they were bullshitting He would get guys who would look at them and you go.

01:23:22.000 No, you're not.

01:23:23.000 This is not working You're faking it come on and he would take them off the stage He knew when people were under he knew when they weren't but he could get a whole group of people and Maybe, like, bring ten people on stage and by the time he's done hypnotizing them, six or seven of them would be totally under.

01:23:38.000 And he'd have them doing all kinds of ridiculous things, like they thought they were having sex, they'd cum in their pants.

01:23:44.000 Like, really...

01:23:45.000 Amazing.

01:23:46.000 I mean, I know for you, you're thinking, like, this isn't helping anyone.

01:23:51.000 He wasn't trying to do that.

01:23:52.000 He was trying to put on a show.

01:23:54.000 It was, you know, people paid to see it.

01:23:56.000 It was fun.

01:23:56.000 Yeah, and if people paid to see it and they want to go on stage, free will.

01:24:00.000 No problem.

01:24:00.000 Right.

01:24:01.000 I've done it before.

01:24:02.000 Part and parcel of when we were...

01:24:04.000 Part and parcel.

01:24:05.000 I said it again!

01:24:05.000 Son of a bitch.

01:24:06.000 Is that coffee?

01:24:07.000 Blame the coffee.

01:24:08.000 Blame the coffee.

01:24:09.000 Well, anyway, sorry.

01:24:11.000 Sorry about that, viewers.

01:24:14.000 I don't dig that.

01:24:16.000 It just doesn't do anything for me.

01:24:19.000 But how are they doing that?

01:24:21.000 Um, because it's, they, if you go to a hypnotherapist and they say, uh, you can't hypnotise me, then fuck off.

01:24:31.000 What did you come for?

01:24:32.000 You know, what's the point?

01:24:34.000 You know, you've got a pizza to buy a pizza, you know, what comes the hypnotherapist?

01:24:37.000 You come to get hypnotised, you know?

01:24:39.000 So you half go along with it anyway, you know, and it helps if the client's got an issue, they want to change, then they're more likely to change if they want to change with you, you know?

01:24:50.000 Um...

01:24:51.000 But the people that do on the stage, they just...

01:24:54.000 They want it to happen to them.

01:24:56.000 They don't mind looking daft, so that's cool.

01:24:58.000 But what I did with you is we did the magnet as well, which was just...

01:25:06.000 I just stood away because we did the peripheral vision and we just imagined that there was a magnet that could take negative energy from your body.

01:25:13.000 And what that does is you use your own imagination to take the negative energy out.

01:25:17.000 You do move.

01:25:18.000 There's loads of weird stuff.

01:25:19.000 But what is happening there really?

01:25:21.000 Because obviously there's no magnet and your mind thinking that negative energy is being pulled out of your body, is that just an adjustment of your attitude or an adjustment of your perceptions?

01:25:31.000 Who knows?

01:25:33.000 Who knows?

01:25:34.000 But all I know is it works very, very well.

01:25:36.000 And it's relaxing.

01:25:38.000 Is that related at all to what Frank Santos used to do by getting an entire group of people to think that they were doing wacky shit in front of an audience?

01:25:46.000 Because it's the installation of what?

01:25:49.000 It's the installation that's different.

01:25:52.000 You know, there was no magnet, as you said.

01:25:54.000 They're not having sex.

01:25:55.000 It's an installation.

01:25:57.000 Right, but I didn't really think that there was a magnet.

01:26:00.000 I know, of course.

01:26:01.000 They don't...

01:26:04.000 They go on there for that experience, don't they?

01:26:06.000 They go on there for that experience.

01:26:08.000 But, you know, it's irrespective whether you believe there's a magnet or not.

01:26:11.000 It's the end result if you feel more relaxed.

01:26:13.000 Right.

01:26:13.000 It's almost like a placebo effect.

01:26:15.000 Indeed.

01:26:16.000 Right.

01:26:16.000 Yeah.

01:26:17.000 So, the placebo effect or the mind perceiving this change and then adjusting your attitude accordingly, that's what it is.

01:26:27.000 It's about just redirection of thought, redirection of focus.

01:26:33.000 But that was different than the hypnosis part, because the hypnosis part, when you hypnotized me, like, I was definitely hypnotized.

01:26:39.000 Like, I definitely could listen to your voice, and I knew that I was hearing your voice, but I was in this weird sort of dream state.

01:26:45.000 Yeah.

01:26:46.000 I was aware of it, but not aware of it.

01:26:48.000 Yeah.

01:26:48.000 Like, if you took my pants off, we'd have a problem.

01:26:50.000 Yeah.

01:26:50.000 I would have woke up and go, what the fuck is this guy trying to pull?

01:26:53.000 But you know what I'm saying?

01:26:54.000 Obviously he's trying to pull you.

01:26:55.000 I wasn't trying to...

01:26:56.000 But I wasn't...

01:26:58.000 It's a weird state because you're not totally there, but you're kind of there.

01:27:06.000 Yeah.

01:27:06.000 Is that a good way of describing it?

01:27:07.000 Yeah.

01:27:08.000 Yeah.

01:27:09.000 You're still there.

01:27:10.000 You're not going to do anything that's against your values anyway, really.

01:27:13.000 You're not going to do anything.

01:27:14.000 Well, we wouldn't anyway, because I'm not like that.

01:27:16.000 I'm not like that as a hypnotherapist or as a mind coach.

01:27:19.000 And what we did with you is we got you to focus on your thumb, that thumb.

01:27:27.000 So we didn't say your thumb, that thumb.

01:27:29.000 So you disassociate yourself.

01:27:30.000 Instead of saying your thumb, we said that thumb.

01:27:33.000 We focused on that thumb.

01:27:34.000 And then you just get your focus on that.

01:27:36.000 And then there was a structure of like, as you want to free yourself for it's good to do that.

01:27:42.000 One, two, three, four.

01:27:44.000 You know, so you're just like counting down as well.

01:27:47.000 No, do you?

01:27:48.000 Counting up, but using numbers, you know.

01:27:50.000 Right.

01:27:51.000 So it's a cause of sort of, you're focusing on that.

01:27:54.000 If you're focusing on that, then your unconscious mind, so you're focusing on that.

01:27:58.000 And I'm talking to you with language that your unconscious mind recognizes to be relaxing.

01:28:03.000 Are you aware at all, rather, of the concept of a Manchurian candidate?

01:28:10.000 What do you think about that?

01:28:12.000 Have you ever watched Derren Brown?

01:28:14.000 Derren Brown, a hypnotist, right?

01:28:16.000 Derren Brown, yeah, he's a hypnotist, he's an entertainer, he's a magician as well.

01:28:20.000 He's fantastic.

01:28:21.000 And he did one called The Experiments.

01:28:23.000 I think you can watch them on YouTube.

01:28:24.000 And he did one where they shot Stephen Fry.

01:28:29.000 Stephen Fry is like an English...

01:28:33.000 Comedian guy, and he's very posh, very, very, very intelligent guy, member of Mensa, but super smart.

01:28:40.000 And they, he got this certain guy, they did a lot of elimination techniques, you know, to see he was more susceptible, and they used a certain guy to go and shoot Stephen Fry, you know, not with a real gun, obviously, but just whether, I don't know.

01:28:56.000 I don't know.

01:28:57.000 It's interesting.

01:28:58.000 I don't know.

01:28:58.000 There is a case where I watched when he assassinated someone and he said, definitely, I was under hypnosis.

01:29:05.000 And everybody's just saying that while he's in prison.

01:29:08.000 So do you think it's possible?

01:29:12.000 You would know, right?

01:29:14.000 Probably more than 99% of the people on the planet.

01:29:18.000 I think if it's against your deep level value, you won't do it.

01:29:22.000 But what if you're fairly shady, but innocent?

01:29:25.000 What's darkness, Jews?

01:29:27.000 That's very dark.

01:29:28.000 Right?

01:29:28.000 I mean, if you find a guy who's not, maybe never killed anybody, but maybe he's done a few fucked up things, and you can talk that guy into doing something like that through hypnosis.

01:29:39.000 Yeah, possibly.

01:29:41.000 Maybe.

01:29:42.000 Because you're essentially steering someone towards a crime that they ordinarily would have avoided.

01:29:47.000 Well, did you see the, again on YouTube, an Italian hypnotist and took money off the cashier.

01:29:56.000 She just took money out of the register.

01:29:58.000 No.

01:29:59.000 Yeah, they've done that.

01:30:00.000 And Derren Brown played...

01:30:01.000 Did it on television?

01:30:02.000 No, he did it.

01:30:03.000 It was captured on CCTV. Oh, so he was a thief.

01:30:06.000 Yes, and there was one where Derren Brown paid with paper.

01:30:09.000 So what he did is he gets paper, which is the same as dollar bills, just blank paper.

01:30:15.000 And there's a confusion technique, so he said, don't quote me on the script, but he said, I've just moved into the town, or I've just got off the train, and I don't know whether to go that way or that way, because my friend said, yeah, I have to get the terrain, but I don't know whether to go that way or that way, or that way.

01:30:30.000 But do you know where the station is?

01:30:32.000 But he said, get the train, he says, take it, it's fine.

01:30:34.000 And then when he's, when he's, he said, he said, well, just take it, it's fine.

01:30:37.000 So that confuses the people, say, that way or that way?

01:30:40.000 So it's mixed directing your thoughts, so he's moving his hands everywhere.

01:30:42.000 So he's thinking, what's this guy on about?

01:30:44.000 Then he's saying, take it, it's fine.

01:30:46.000 Mm-hmm.

01:30:47.000 So when he's giving the money, he's like, look, he said, oh, can I buy that?

01:30:50.000 And he just gives them paper.

01:30:51.000 And that's still confused.

01:30:53.000 Not for long, because they soon come round and go, fuck you, dude.

01:30:56.000 But he confuses them by saying, take it, it's fine.

01:30:58.000 Take it, it's fine.

01:30:59.000 So they...

01:31:01.000 I've worked at an ice cream place when I was a kid.

01:31:05.000 They serve ice cream and hamburgers.

01:31:07.000 It was a place called Newport Creamery.

01:31:09.000 And I remember they had someone came in that they called a flim-flam artist.

01:31:14.000 Where someone would come in and they would give you $20 and they'd say, can you give me...

01:31:21.000 A ten, a five, and five ones.

01:31:24.000 And then they would say, okay, okay, actually, can you give me a ten, five, five ones, and four quarters?

01:31:29.000 No, you know what?

01:31:30.000 Give me two tens, and then they would start two tens of five and four quarters.

01:31:35.000 And then all of a sudden, you'd have more than $20 that you'd be giving them for their money.

01:31:40.000 And the manager closed the register.

01:31:44.000 They went, hold on a second.

01:31:45.000 What is going on here?

01:31:46.000 And they shut the register, and they had, like, this...

01:31:49.000 Sort of weird eye-to-eye moment with this guy who was trying to hustle this kid that was working the cash register.

01:31:57.000 It was really fascinating.

01:31:58.000 It was like a guy who was a con man.

01:32:01.000 And I remember I was near it.

01:32:03.000 I wasn't involved in it.

01:32:04.000 I wasn't working on the cash register, but I was close to it.

01:32:07.000 I forget what I was doing.

01:32:08.000 But I remember watching this going, what's going on?

01:32:10.000 Is something happening here?

01:32:12.000 And then they had like a little meeting.

01:32:13.000 They explained when you're working the cash register, you have to be careful of people that start asking you for weird things.

01:32:20.000 Asking you to, you know, because they start twisting your brain and confusing you and your memory gets all fucked up and you're trying to memorize what they're asking for.

01:32:28.000 And before you know it, you've given someone $30 for $20.

01:32:32.000 Yeah, someone did that.

01:32:34.000 I worked at a health club quite a few years ago.

01:32:37.000 And a guy came in and he went, is Frank in?

01:32:40.000 He was the owner.

01:32:41.000 I said, no.

01:32:42.000 He said, oh, I've brought his chain for his wife.

01:32:44.000 I mentioned his wife's name.

01:32:47.000 It's 20 quid.

01:32:48.000 So I went, oh, right, give him 20 quid.

01:32:50.000 That was it.

01:32:51.000 And when he walked out and then Frank come back and I said, you know, I've paid for that, the repair of that, you know, bracelet.

01:32:59.000 And what he'd done is he'd come in, he'd talk to someone at the back.

01:33:01.000 Who owns?

01:33:02.000 Who works?

01:33:02.000 Who's the manager?

01:33:03.000 Frank.

01:33:04.000 I'm sure I know Frank.

01:33:06.000 What's his wife's name?

01:33:07.000 Whatever her name was.

01:33:09.000 And then Muppet at the reception.

01:33:12.000 Hey, okay.

01:33:13.000 Here's the money.

01:33:13.000 Anything else?

01:33:14.000 You know, it was done to me.

01:33:16.000 So he gave you like a shitty chain.

01:33:18.000 Yeah, but I just went...

01:33:19.000 And you gave him 20. You know?

01:33:21.000 Yeah, that's a weird hustle, that hustle of trying to confuse people.

01:33:26.000 But there must be patterns that they try to tap into in the way people recognize money or the way people count things that they try to disrupt and cause confusion.

01:33:38.000 Numbers, words, especially words, you can confuse people and send them off guard.

01:33:45.000 We did a thing when we did the masters with neuro-linguistic programming, we did a thing called quantum linguistics, which is really interesting, it's really cool, makes you laugh, it just doesn't make no sense.

01:33:55.000 One of the best language patterns I was saying, I always, when I was younger, I was always self-sabotaging, I said, I always self-sabotage, and a guy called Chris Bannocks, who I did my masters with, And I said, imagine there's a wasp's nest and I've got a stick.

01:34:12.000 Don't go near it because you'll get stung.

01:34:14.000 But because I was young, I always thought, fuck it anyway, I'll get stung and just see what happens.

01:34:18.000 I'll fight these wasps, stupid.

01:34:19.000 You're younger, you're daft, aren't you?

01:34:21.000 And he said, what wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it?

01:34:25.000 So when he said, what wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it?

01:34:29.000 And I was like, what?

01:34:31.000 And it doesn't make sense.

01:34:33.000 No.

01:34:33.000 But it sends your mind in a, especially when you're in that sort of that, you know.

01:34:37.000 Right.

01:34:37.000 What wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it.

01:34:41.000 So if you pretend not to do it, but still do it.

01:34:44.000 So if you're pretending not to do it, you're doing it.

01:34:46.000 Yeah, but what wouldn't happen?

01:34:46.000 So what wouldn't happen?

01:34:47.000 Well, you wouldn't get stung.

01:34:49.000 What wouldn't happen is you wouldn't get stung.

01:34:51.000 Yeah, but what wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it?

01:34:54.000 That's the sort of stone thing in it.

01:34:56.000 It's like, what wouldn't happen?

01:34:57.000 I'd be like, you need to learn how to talk better, motherfucker.

01:35:00.000 You're talking crazy.

01:35:01.000 But it's like, in that situation where it's not like dropped on you, you know, you don't knock on top on the shoulder and say, hey, we'll never pretend to do it.

01:35:08.000 In the cliche therapy thing, and the paratherapy situation, when it's glided in with language, it works so smoothly.

01:35:17.000 Do you pay attention at all to cults?

01:35:20.000 Do you pay attention at all?

01:35:21.000 Because I'm fascinated by people's ability to control other people's minds and behavior.

01:35:29.000 And I've always wondered whether or not, like, have you seen the Scientology documentary, Going Clear?

01:35:35.000 I've started watching it.

01:35:37.000 I started watching it.

01:35:39.000 Oh, it's fucking fascinating, man.

01:35:41.000 I've watched it three times.

01:35:42.000 I can't look away.

01:35:43.000 I might watch it again.

01:35:46.000 I'll have to watch it.

01:35:47.000 It's fucking crazy.

01:35:48.000 I'll have to watch it.

01:35:48.000 Well, I had experience.

01:35:50.000 I've known several people that were Scientologists, but one of them was one of my neighbors.

01:35:55.000 And...

01:35:56.000 You know, he and I had some weird exchange about his wife was going clear, so he needed $50,000.

01:36:01.000 I was like, what?

01:36:03.000 50 fucking grand?

01:36:04.000 Like, whoa, what's going on?

01:36:05.000 He was like, they're going to do some ceremony and his wife will no longer be influenced by outside pressure or, you know, outside thoughts or anybody's criticisms or negativity.

01:36:18.000 She no longer, they would no longer affect her.

01:36:20.000 And they needed 50 grand for that.

01:36:23.000 What the fuck?

01:36:24.000 But he fucking, looking at his eye, he was telling me, like, oranges have vitamin C in them.

01:36:29.000 You know, like, for him, it was, like, pretty straightforward.

01:36:32.000 Obviously.

01:36:33.000 And I've always been fascinated, like, what the fuck is going on with a cult?

01:36:37.000 My friend, my friend named Aidan Pears, he was into Scientology.

01:36:41.000 I don't know if he still is.

01:36:42.000 I don't think he is.

01:36:43.000 But he went to Flag, which is the base where the Scientologists have the main place, what they have.

01:36:49.000 And Tom Cruise's sister is named Aidan.

01:36:53.000 Sorry.

01:36:54.000 Tom Cruise's sister's child is named Aidan after him.

01:36:58.000 Whoa.

01:36:59.000 So he was into it.

01:37:00.000 I went to it.

01:37:02.000 I went to it a couple of times, years and years ago, and it creeped me out a bit.

01:37:08.000 But I'm not so I don't know if it whatever floats your boat if it's not causing you any but I haven't seen that going clear so I will do so I don't know about anything I say I agree with that as well if it's not hurting you and what do I give a fuck I agree with that as well until you start watching these documentaries you go well clearly it's hurting some people it's definitely hurting people it's breaking up families it's it's really fucked up the way they attack some people that That dissent or that leave or...

01:37:35.000 I mean, if the people that are on the show, the documentary that are telling...

01:37:40.000 If they're telling the truth, and that's debatable, you know, only they know and the people that they're talking about know.

01:37:45.000 There's some mind control going on there.

01:37:47.000 There's some absolute definite mind control going on there.

01:37:51.000 And I wonder, is that related in any way to hypnosis?

01:37:55.000 The ability that these people have to manipulate these folks into...

01:37:59.000 Look at Hitler's speech.

01:38:00.000 Mein Kampf.

01:38:01.000 Look what Hitler did.

01:38:03.000 You know, so people maybe are searching for something to be influenced.

01:38:07.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:38:08.000 So it's always going to be a lot easier, you know?

01:38:12.000 So it's always going to be susceptible people.

01:38:16.000 There is always going to be susceptible people.

01:38:18.000 But is cult, like when you see a Jim Jones speech, or when someone is giving some sort of a cultish speech, is that similar in some ways to hypnosis?

01:38:30.000 It has to resonate, doesn't it?

01:38:31.000 Right.

01:38:31.000 It has to resonate with the person, with the people.

01:38:36.000 I won't say it's hypnosis, but I just say it has to resonate with what they believe in.

01:38:40.000 You know, and what they...

01:38:41.000 it floats the boat, I guess.

01:38:44.000 You know what I mean?

01:38:45.000 They can latch onto.

01:38:46.000 It's like cold reading, isn't it?

01:38:48.000 Like what?

01:38:49.000 Cold reading.

01:38:50.000 Cold reading?

01:38:51.000 What's that?

01:38:52.000 Psychics.

01:38:52.000 Oh, okay.

01:38:53.000 You say stuff like...

01:38:54.000 Cold reading and acting, by the way?

01:38:57.000 No, no.

01:38:57.000 Cold reading is a different thing.

01:38:59.000 It means you get a script.

01:38:59.000 Yeah, no, it's different.

01:39:00.000 Because I was trying to think...

01:39:01.000 What is he talking about?

01:39:02.000 No, it's different.

01:39:02.000 Cold reading is different.

01:39:04.000 I went to Malta a couple of years ago.

01:39:06.000 Was it Malta?

01:39:07.000 No, it was roads in Greece.

01:39:09.000 Anyway, I digress.

01:39:10.000 And we went over and we got stung by the timeshare people and the...

01:39:16.000 Anyway, the woman was going on and on to me and she said, what do you do in English?

01:39:20.000 I said, I'm a psychic.

01:39:21.000 She went, really?

01:39:22.000 I went, yeah, I'm a psychic.

01:39:23.000 She went, oh, right.

01:39:24.000 I said, you had an accident near water, a scare maybe, before you was 10. I'm getting 10 for some reason.

01:39:32.000 Before you was 10 and she went, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right.

01:39:35.000 Yeah, you did.

01:39:36.000 Have you got a scar on one of your knees?

01:39:38.000 Yeah, I've got a scar on my left knee.

01:39:40.000 Yeah, I thought you did.

01:39:41.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:39:42.000 And, you know, you've been really...

01:39:44.000 You've had some...

01:39:45.000 You know, you've had some limelight, but you don't mind other people, and you've had a lot of close friends.

01:39:51.000 You've got a lot of friends, but you've only got a certain amount of close ones.

01:39:54.000 So everyone resonates with that.

01:39:56.000 I like horoscopes.

01:39:56.000 Everyone sort of, like, clings onto that, and...

01:39:59.000 You know, there's all sorts of, you know, psychics and people say, oh, wow, they knew this.

01:40:04.000 Fuck, that stuff drives me crazy.

01:40:05.000 I have a friend who believes that shit.

01:40:07.000 He went to somebody, he's like, man, they told me all about my grandmother.

01:40:10.000 I'm like, bitch, don't you know about your grandmother?

01:40:13.000 They're telling you some shit you already know?

01:40:15.000 What kind of psychic is that?

01:40:17.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:40:19.000 And I never understood it until we had this guy.

01:40:22.000 Do you know who Banachek is?

01:40:24.000 Yes.

01:40:24.000 I had Banachek on the sci-fi show that I did.

01:40:27.000 Joe Rogan questions everything.

01:40:28.000 He was brilliant and stunning and scary.

01:40:32.000 Scary how good he is at it.

01:40:34.000 Also, super honest.

01:40:35.000 He's like, I'll tell you right now, I'm not a psychic.

01:40:37.000 I don't have any psychic ability at all.

01:40:40.000 This is all bullshit.

01:40:41.000 And I hate when people steal from people and rob them.

01:40:45.000 What I'm doing is entertainment and it's a show.

01:40:47.000 And I have very specific techniques that I use to achieve this.

01:40:50.000 Yeah, that's why I don't I can't think of anything else.

01:40:52.000 That's why I don't fuck around when I do hypnosis and do this.

01:40:57.000 Right.

01:40:58.000 No.

01:41:00.000 It's just not the game, is it?

01:41:01.000 He wasn't doing hypnosis.

01:41:03.000 He was just pretending to be able to read your mind and be able to put...

01:41:07.000 But he was really...

01:41:09.000 Really clear about it saying these are just techniques.

01:41:12.000 I am not really Seeing anything that other people can't see.

01:41:16.000 I don't have any special ability But the people that do claim that like I don't know how it is in England But in California in particular you'll drive down the street and you'll see four or five of these fucking psychic readings Chiropractors and that.

01:41:30.000 There's loads of chiropractors as well.

01:41:32.000 There's loads in America.

01:41:33.000 Is chiropractic bullshit?

01:41:34.000 Is that what you're saying?

01:41:34.000 No, I'm not saying it is.

01:41:35.000 There's loads of chiropractors.

01:41:36.000 You see that, Tarot, you're driving on the street and chiropractors, you don't see that many in England.

01:41:41.000 A lot of people think chiropractors are bullshit too.

01:41:43.000 It's like a lot of reputable people think it's bullshit.

01:41:46.000 They're just moving your neck around.

01:41:48.000 Click.

01:41:48.000 Click and click.

01:41:49.000 I'm killed.

01:41:50.000 Yeah.

01:41:51.000 Yeah.

01:41:51.000 Yeah, but it costs a lot of money, too.

01:41:52.000 You go 150 bucks and they're just...

01:41:55.000 Twisted around.

01:41:56.000 Pop in your back.

01:41:57.000 Right.

01:41:57.000 But then some people say, like, there's certain things that chiropractors do that really are beneficial.

01:42:02.000 So, who the fuck do you believe?

01:42:03.000 Yeah, the ones I've been to a couple of times, they've been here.

01:42:07.000 They've been good.

01:42:09.000 I felt all right afterwards, so...

01:42:11.000 Well, there's this one guy that used to work with a lot of fighters and he was what they call a zone healer.

01:42:15.000 And his idea was that he was like sort of tricking your body into healing because he was sort of using the placebo effect telling you that he was healing you by popping your neck or moving your body in a certain way.

01:42:27.000 But he really wasn't doing anything other than shit a normal chiropractor does.

01:42:31.000 Is he still working?

01:42:31.000 I don't know.

01:42:32.000 Try not to pay attention to that shit.

01:42:34.000 That stuff drives me nuts.

01:42:36.000 Because it's deception.

01:42:37.000 And whether or not it's effective or not is debatable because deception can be effective, right?

01:42:41.000 And isn't that sort of part of what the placebo effect is?

01:42:46.000 Exactly.

01:42:46.000 This is what I'm against in the hypnosis thing, really.

01:42:50.000 The point I was trying to make is I don't fuck around with people.

01:42:54.000 Right.

01:42:55.000 You know, they come to you for help.

01:42:57.000 They genuinely want your help.

01:42:58.000 They genuinely want to get where they want to get to.

01:43:00.000 And you can't.

01:43:01.000 Fuck around with people.

01:43:03.000 Right.

01:43:03.000 It's not fair.

01:43:04.000 They pay you, and they're looking for you to help them out.

01:43:07.000 I buzz off it, because then you achieve something together.

01:43:10.000 You know, it's good.

01:43:10.000 I like that.

01:43:11.000 But, yeah, there's a lot of...

01:43:13.000 There's a lot of shit in everything, though, isn't there?

01:43:15.000 There is.

01:43:16.000 There's a lot of crap.

01:43:17.000 There's more shocking chefs than good ones, you know what I mean?

01:43:20.000 And isn't that...

01:43:22.000 There's also a lot, there's a lot of manipulation and a lot of charlatans in almost every line of work, right?

01:43:30.000 Yeah.

01:43:30.000 But isn't that, it's sort of, it's relative to what we're talking about.

01:43:35.000 It's like, what is your focus?

01:43:37.000 Like, what are you trying to achieve?

01:43:38.000 What are you trying to achieve as a coach?

01:43:40.000 As a coach, you're trying to help people and make them better.

01:43:43.000 What are you trying to achieve as whatever you're doing, as a salesperson?

01:43:46.000 Are you trying to sell people something that's an actual great product, like a really nice car?

01:43:50.000 Like, this is a car, if you enjoy cars, you will enjoy this car.

01:43:53.000 It's great.

01:43:54.000 Or are you selling them a fucking shitbox that's been taped together and it's going to fall apart the moment they get it out of the driveway?

01:44:01.000 You know, what is your ultimate goal?

01:44:03.000 Are you trying to help people?

01:44:05.000 Are you trying to have a beneficial, mutually agreeable relationship?

01:44:09.000 Or are you trying to read their palm and get money out of them?

01:44:13.000 Are you fucking with them?

01:44:14.000 Or aren't I amazing, Cynthia?

01:44:16.000 I'm fucking amazing.

01:44:17.000 I never, you know, like the success that Joe's had, and the success that many of my clients have had, I don't go, it was me.

01:44:27.000 You know, because it's all about the client.

01:44:29.000 They do it.

01:44:30.000 I like winning, and of course, there's some sort of pat on the back for myself by me, but I don't run around and go, are I amazing?

01:44:37.000 But is it a pat on the back, or is it just an appreciation for the method?

01:44:42.000 Appreciation of the method, and appreciate, you know, it doesn't stop shocking me how well it works at times, you know?

01:44:49.000 Well, 99.9% of the time, it's just a shock.

01:44:53.000 Even now, even now that I've been involved in it, eight years now, it's just, I don't know, it's just, I don't know, I buzz off it.

01:45:00.000 You can tell I buzz off it and stop jumping around about it.

01:45:03.000 How many years have you been doing it full-time?

01:45:05.000 Eight.

01:45:06.000 Full-time, eight?

01:45:07.000 No, I'm half and half.

01:45:09.000 But training as well, training fighters?

01:45:11.000 I was, and then I was training fighters.

01:45:13.000 I got kind of bored of it.

01:45:14.000 I'd achieved what I wanted to.

01:45:16.000 My fighters had reached a level.

01:45:18.000 I was getting bored, and I wasn't giving them the attention I should do.

01:45:22.000 So I decided to stop that, and then I had a regular job anyway.

01:45:26.000 And then I just started to get mind coaching and word of mouth, like you got to know me through word of mouth and then it's just spread from there and it continues to do so.

01:45:37.000 So now that's full time?

01:45:38.000 I still commentate as well.

01:45:40.000 I commentate from Fusion and from Yoko, Muay Thai shows and Smash Muay Thai as well.

01:45:45.000 It's in England, which is good shows.

01:45:47.000 And I still do that.

01:45:48.000 You know, I've done GFC and, you know, different things like that.

01:45:52.000 But I still commentate a lot for Yoko and Infusion and Smash Muay Thai.

01:45:56.000 And just do that as well.

01:45:58.000 But I just, I've got a lot of clients from America now.

01:46:01.000 At least I'm up at stupid o'clock in the morning.

01:46:02.000 You know, doing it on Skype.

01:46:04.000 But it's great.

01:46:05.000 Yeah, was there an eight hour or ten hour difference between us?

01:46:08.000 Something like that.

01:46:08.000 I don't mind.

01:46:09.000 I buzz off it.

01:46:10.000 I genuinely buzz off it.

01:46:12.000 I love the...

01:46:13.000 I like it.

01:46:14.000 Well, that's great.

01:46:15.000 I mean, that's really what life is all about, finding something that you really enjoy, that you get that buzz off of, and pursuing that, and if you can make a living with that.

01:46:21.000 Well, you're the same, aren't you?

01:46:22.000 You can tell you're animated by what you do.

01:46:25.000 Yeah, well, I'm just super lucky that I found a bunch of different things that I really enjoy doing.

01:46:29.000 Like just this.

01:46:30.000 And that you're good at as well.

01:46:31.000 Well, how about this?

01:46:32.000 I mean, the ability or the opportunity, rather, to have a conversation like this with a guy like you, sit down for hours, totally uninterrupted.

01:46:40.000 It's very rare to get this.

01:46:42.000 It's almost like the only way to get these kind of conversations is to have this kind of conversation where you know it's being broadcast.

01:46:49.000 Because otherwise we'd be checking our phone, we'd be talking, you know, do you want a beer?

01:46:53.000 Do you want this and that?

01:46:54.000 Oh, this fucking guy is annoying and this thing is happening to me.

01:46:58.000 Keep saying pop and pop.

01:46:59.000 You wouldn't.

01:47:00.000 You probably wouldn't do that.

01:47:03.000 But you know what I mean?

01:47:03.000 The only way you have these intense one-on-one conversations is in a podcast form.

01:47:09.000 So in a lot of ways, this podcast has been incredibly educational.

01:47:13.000 It's been almost like a very varied university course on a bunch of different disciplines and interests.

01:47:22.000 I appreciate it.

01:47:23.000 You said about Mike McCollum and the left hook, and I like that.

01:47:27.000 You know, and I went, oh yeah, I forgot about him.

01:47:29.000 I'm not egotistical enough to think I know everything.

01:47:34.000 There's a lot of them.

01:47:36.000 I've seen, like I said, a rapid induction course, and the guy was just like, he was doing this hypnosis gun, and he was going to sleep, and this other guy was going...

01:47:44.000 Right, but isn't that similar like that fucking, those bullshit kung fu guys?

01:47:48.000 They're like, ha!

01:47:50.000 And their students fall to the ground.

01:47:52.000 I can do that.

01:47:52.000 Don't you think that's, is that hypnosis too?

01:47:54.000 What is going on with that?

01:47:56.000 It's bullshit.

01:47:56.000 It is bullshit, right?

01:47:57.000 It's just idiots.

01:47:59.000 But what's happening with the students?

01:48:01.000 Because they're pricks.

01:48:02.000 The students, though, they're falling to the ground, they're twitching.

01:48:05.000 Yeah, but they're just daft, aren't they?

01:48:07.000 Are they, or are they under the hypnosis power of suggestion?

01:48:11.000 No, I don't think it's nothing to do with it.

01:48:12.000 Yeah, maybe it's a suggestion, or maybe it's just that they're not all there.

01:48:19.000 There is a lot of weird people about it, Joe.

01:48:22.000 You know that.

01:48:22.000 You were going to say idiots and you went with weird.

01:48:24.000 I like it.

01:48:25.000 I kind of switched it in the middle, changed the trajectory of the rocket that would have got me in trouble.

01:48:30.000 That is the problem, right?

01:48:31.000 Like some people have big noses and some people are idiots.

01:48:34.000 Some people have got grey eyes, some people haven't.

01:48:36.000 Yeah, it's like the genetics vary.

01:48:38.000 Not everybody could be Einstein.

01:48:40.000 No.

01:48:41.000 No.

01:48:41.000 And some people you go, ha, and they fall to the ground.

01:48:45.000 It'd be good though, wouldn't it?

01:48:46.000 I've seen some videos of fake kung fu, and it's fucking amazing.

01:48:50.000 Like, there's this one dude, and he was teaching this class, and he had this girl, and he was moving her back and forth and back and forth, like a comedy.

01:49:01.000 Like, it was a comedy, but it was real.

01:49:04.000 And he'd make her dance and shock her, and then she would fall to the ground, and she was...

01:49:10.000 Have you seen the recent one there that guy gets his student, he's like a big bellied guy with his gi on, and then she does this, and he goes, give him an Oscar, that was a right performance.

01:49:22.000 He just like flops on the deck and his arm flew in the air, that was proper funny.

01:49:26.000 I mean, because I'm here at the moment in America with Jordan Watson, who's like a superstar in Muay Thai, and we were watching it, we were pissing ourselves off, and it was funny.

01:49:34.000 Well, there's a lot of that out there, man.

01:49:36.000 There's a lot of that fake kung fu stuff out there.

01:49:38.000 Less and less now than there was in 1993 when the UFC came along.

01:49:43.000 That's one of the things that the UFC has done that's amazing is eradicate a lot of the bullshit martial arts.

01:49:48.000 There's a lot of fake practitioners out there.

01:49:52.000 And, you know, Eddie Bravo has this hilarious story of this fake...

01:49:55.000 Kung Fu teacher that he was taking lessons under.

01:49:58.000 You know, he was a young kid.

01:49:59.000 He didn't know any better.

01:50:00.000 And the guy was going to China to study under his master.

01:50:04.000 And Eddie ran into him at the supermarket when the guy was supposed to be in China.

01:50:08.000 He's like, what the fuck is going on?

01:50:09.000 And then he realized, this guy isn't taking Kung Fu.

01:50:11.000 He's just making shit up.

01:50:13.000 Everything he was doing was just totally made up.

01:50:16.000 He was karate chopping people on the top of the head and saying you'd kill them if you hit them correctly.

01:50:23.000 But it's that sort of McDojo-type fake martial arts stuff was really, really, really prevalent a few decades ago.

01:50:33.000 Yeah, but I grew up with Drunken Master.

01:50:35.000 Drunken Master and all them.

01:50:37.000 Oh, yeah.

01:50:37.000 All the Run Run Shore movies, you know, Golden Harvest.

01:50:41.000 Well, those are fun to watch, to pretend.

01:50:43.000 You know, you watch an old Jackie Chan movie and he's fucking...

01:50:46.000 All that crazy shit, but...

01:50:50.000 Drunken Master's the one.

01:50:51.000 Yeah.

01:50:52.000 He's beating him up with a tea towel.

01:50:54.000 Sam Seed.

01:50:55.000 Well, it's a comedy, though.

01:50:57.000 It seems funny.

01:50:58.000 Yeah, but it's still there.

01:51:00.000 And I tell you, I really like Police Story with Jackie Chan, the first one.

01:51:04.000 That was good.

01:51:05.000 That was wicked, though.

01:51:06.000 He's mad, Jackie Shannon.

01:51:07.000 But a lot of those movies had people believing that there were people out there that had chi and death touch and...

01:51:13.000 You know?

01:51:15.000 When you want...

01:51:16.000 I just...

01:51:17.000 I mean, to bring it back to what you do, do you think there's any of that that's hypnosis?

01:51:23.000 Is there anything that's similar to what I said Frank Santos used to be able to do?

01:51:27.000 Um...

01:51:29.000 I don't know.

01:51:30.000 Is it...

01:51:30.000 Honestly, I don't know.

01:51:32.000 Devotion that they have towards their sensei or their...

01:51:36.000 Yeah, they're bananas, aren't they?

01:51:38.000 They're just fucking crazy.

01:51:40.000 Yeah, they believe what he says, so they're just like, oh yeah, he can do this.

01:51:43.000 But how is that different than a guy who thinks, like, I watched a guy who thought he was having sex with Madonna and he came in his pants, because Frank Santos put that in his head and he did that.

01:51:51.000 I watched it, and the guy was like, he didn't know.

01:51:55.000 He came in his pants.

01:51:55.000 I mean, this guy wasn't that good of an actor.

01:51:57.000 He just wasn't.

01:51:58.000 He was embarrassed, he didn't know what to do, and he kind of slunked over and sat in the corner.

01:52:03.000 If he was a ham, he would have spent...

01:52:06.000 You could tell this guy really believed that.

01:52:10.000 At that particular time, where he was in that particular place, yeah, he did believe it.

01:52:15.000 I mean, you've seen people with needles.

01:52:19.000 They have a needle through the hand and they don't feel the pain.

01:52:23.000 You can do that.

01:52:27.000 There's an interesting one called Pain Paradigm, which I'll talk to you about another time.

01:52:31.000 Ooh, anticipation.

01:52:32.000 There you go, next week, viewers.

01:52:37.000 There's all sorts of things.

01:52:40.000 Who knows what the mind's capable of?

01:52:44.000 I'm only a postman of information, really.

01:52:47.000 What really can we do?

01:52:49.000 What will we develop?

01:52:50.000 That's an interesting way to describe it, a postman of information.

01:52:53.000 That's what Keith Mayer, my first teacher said, just postman of information.

01:52:56.000 I like that.

01:52:58.000 I'm really fascinated by the full spectrum, for lack of a better term, of possibilities of suggestion that you can go from, you know, fake psychics and fake healers and like...

01:53:17.000 My friend Brian and I were at the Comedy Store last night.

01:53:19.000 Were you there when you saw the woman was trying to do the Reiki healing on us?

01:53:23.000 It was hilarious because I knew I was going to talk to you today and I knew she was full of shit.

01:53:28.000 Or she probably thinks it's real.

01:53:30.000 But she was like, can you feel the energy?

01:53:33.000 Like she said, put your left hand out because left hands are more sensitive, more susceptible.

01:53:38.000 Okay.

01:53:39.000 So I have my hand out.

01:53:40.000 And she is like running her hand over the top and the bottom, like not touching my hand, but getting close to it.

01:53:47.000 Like, do you feel it?

01:53:48.000 Do you feel anything?

01:53:49.000 And I'm like...

01:53:50.000 No, I'm trying to be open-minded, but I don't feel anything.

01:53:54.000 But some people would be like, yes, I do feel it.

01:53:56.000 I think it's what you want to believe.

01:53:58.000 And I think my beliefs, like people that are psychics, and you go to see these tarot card readers, etc.

01:54:04.000 If they give people comfort, and make some people feel better, Right.

01:54:09.000 Got more power to them.

01:54:11.000 Right, more power to them.

01:54:12.000 You know, if they believe it, half the time, if they believe that there is Reiki, I don't know.

01:54:16.000 And then if they believe it and it works and people are happy doing it, we might go, but it's, you know.

01:54:23.000 But where's the line drawn?

01:54:24.000 Is the line drawn when you're taking money from them?

01:54:27.000 There is piss takers in the world, isn't there?

01:54:29.000 Piss take?

01:54:30.000 Piss takers.

01:54:31.000 What is it?

01:54:33.000 You know, taking the piss.

01:54:34.000 Okay, you guys are fucking with somebody.

01:54:36.000 Yeah, fucking with someone, yeah, taking the piss.

01:54:39.000 Yeah, but more so than that, someone who, like, is pretending to be healing, but they're stealing money from you.

01:54:48.000 They're not really healing you.

01:54:49.000 Yeah.

01:54:50.000 Well, it's like anyone that sells, I don't know, a vitamin that have this.

01:54:55.000 Right, a snake oil.

01:54:56.000 Snake oil, yeah, of course.

01:54:57.000 A snake oil.

01:54:58.000 Oh, take this and you'll definitely change.

01:55:00.000 But what about fucking the real placebo effect?

01:55:03.000 That's where it gets really weird because there are some placebos that they have introduced to people and they've told them it's a placebo.

01:55:11.000 But the act of doing something, the act of taking something actually has a more beneficial effect than not doing anything.

01:55:21.000 Again, the power of the mind, like the placebo effect is a real effect.

01:55:24.000 You give someone something, you tell them this is medicine.

01:55:28.000 This is going to fix whatever ails you.

01:55:30.000 And it actually does work on a certain percentage, a statistically significant percentage of the people that actually works.

01:55:37.000 Amulets work the same, don't they?

01:55:37.000 Amulets, right.

01:55:38.000 Like crystals and shit.

01:55:39.000 Yeah, amulets work the same, like a lot of Thai people believe in.

01:55:42.000 They put a Buddha on.

01:55:43.000 Or even good luck, right?

01:55:44.000 A good luck coin.

01:55:45.000 I got my lucky quarter.

01:55:47.000 Oh, Dumbo, isn't it?

01:55:48.000 You know, with the feather, lucky feather.

01:55:51.000 Right.

01:55:51.000 You know, when he believes he can fly with the lucky feather, it comes out and all that, you know, the rest.

01:55:57.000 Yeah, so I think it's all down to you, isn't it?

01:55:59.000 It's all down to what you put into your intention and what you want to believe for yourself, you know?

01:56:03.000 Isn't it weird that we have these minds that have such amazing potential, but there's no fucking real good guidebook that anybody's handed, and you're sort of supposed to figure it out on your own, or based on, if you're lucky, you have parents that have their shit together,

01:56:19.000 and they sort of give you a rough...

01:56:21.000 Outline of how you should live your life or live by example.

01:56:24.000 But we're not talking about like goldfish or swans or anything fucking simple.

01:56:30.000 We're talking about human beings with complex languages and mathematics and culture and society and laws and money and all the weirdness that comes with being a person.

01:56:40.000 Good, isn't it?

01:56:41.000 Yes!

01:56:41.000 It's good, though.

01:56:43.000 It is.

01:56:43.000 That's why it's so exciting.

01:56:44.000 Well, that is so exciting.

01:56:45.000 You know?

01:56:45.000 I'm from a bloodline of Merlin and Sherlock.

01:56:49.000 Yes.

01:56:49.000 A million homes.

01:56:50.000 Sounds like real estate.

01:56:52.000 But that's, I just like that.

01:56:54.000 I just, I like that.

01:56:55.000 I like the mystery.

01:56:56.000 I do too.

01:56:57.000 I like that.

01:56:58.000 I like that.

01:57:02.000 It's interesting.

01:57:03.000 And that's what keeps you going in life.

01:57:05.000 I think when you find something interesting and you're trying to, you know, it's always better to be interested instead of interesting.

01:57:13.000 For sure.

01:57:14.000 I mean, that's one of the things that I appreciate most about being able to do this podcast is that I'm constantly and consistently inspired and curious.

01:57:22.000 I'm always learning.

01:57:23.000 You can't know everything.

01:57:26.000 It is not possible.

01:57:27.000 There is too much going on.

01:57:28.000 And once you accept that, then you're just looking for stuff that you find stimulating.

01:57:33.000 And then find more and more things that you find fascinating.

01:57:37.000 And this podcast has given me this really unique opportunity to talk to people like you or...

01:57:42.000 You know, anybody who has some information that I'm not really aware of.

01:57:46.000 I'm massively honored to be on air because, you know, I'm from, I'm just from Liverpool.

01:57:51.000 I'm from Newton.

01:57:52.000 Yeah, I know, but, you know, I'm just like, you know, but nobody's coming in here and then Joe says so nice things, Ian McCall says nice things, and I get to do seminars and get to meet people, and I love it.

01:58:02.000 I'm just...

01:58:04.000 But that's what life is all about really is finding something like that that you really enjoy doing and then pursuing it and then if you can God if you can make a living doing that what a what a great way to be, you know, yeah, I like people are like No, I like people like I don't take everyone on as a client because some people just think no,

01:58:22.000 right?

01:58:23.000 No Have you had like people that are like shitty or just not as appreciative kind of suss them out quickly?

01:58:32.000 Do you try to explain to them why you're not doing this and maybe give them some help for the future?

01:58:39.000 Yeah, I just...

01:58:40.000 Yeah, I just say, well, I can't or I'm busy or just the normal stuff and, you know, or...

01:58:48.000 Depends on what it is.

01:58:49.000 It's not often, I'll be honest with you, it's not often that happens.

01:58:53.000 But, yeah, it does happen.

01:58:55.000 I just kind of deter them.

01:58:59.000 There's one guy saying, there was one guy recently, he's like, yeah, everyone in my team thinks I'm rubbish, I can't fight, and I can't talk to you now, my wife's in bed, and just like, yeah, all right.

01:59:10.000 You know, just loads of things in this way.

01:59:11.000 I just thought, no.

01:59:12.000 That's too much work.

01:59:13.000 Like, if you can't, yeah.

01:59:15.000 Too much hassle.

01:59:16.000 No sovereignty.

01:59:17.000 It's too much hassle.

01:59:19.000 Yeah.

01:59:19.000 I like underdogs triumphing.

01:59:20.000 I like that.

01:59:22.000 Even when I had a gym, I had people that didn't win fights under all gyms and they won under me.

01:59:27.000 I like that.

01:59:28.000 It's good to, I don't know, just give them that buzz and you feel good about yourself and think, yes.

01:59:35.000 I've achieved something that other people didn't.

01:59:36.000 I like that.

01:59:37.000 Right.

01:59:38.000 Yeah, the ability to help people and the satisfaction that comes from other people benefiting from your effort is a very nice thing.

01:59:47.000 Yeah, I had a lady, an equestrian lady called Donna Tainter at the minute.

01:59:53.000 She's, I forgot where she is, somewhere in the States.

01:59:56.000 And she's doing really well.

01:59:57.000 A transformation has been incredible.

02:00:00.000 And all her students are so much better.

02:00:02.000 Her sponsors are like really wonderful.

02:00:03.000 Warming to her, she's riding better and stuff like that.

02:00:06.000 It's just moving things out of people's way.

02:00:08.000 It's kicking it out.

02:00:09.000 Alright, so if people want to get a hold of you, what is the best way?

02:00:13.000 Your Twitter handle is Vinnie Shorman.

02:00:16.000 What is it?

02:00:17.000 Vinnie Showtime69.

02:00:18.000 The reason why it's called Showtime, it's not perverted and 69. Showtime is, I used to be a commentator for it.

02:00:24.000 And 69 was the hero's born, so...

02:00:27.000 Oh, yeah.

02:00:28.000 Nothing perverted there.

02:00:29.000 That's a problem, right, isn't it?

02:00:30.000 That number, 69. Yeah, I'm going to have to change that, I think.

02:00:32.000 Well, it's a lot of great cars, 1969. We'll get it that way.

02:00:36.000 And it's when they landed on the moon.

02:00:38.000 And you can get me on vinyshawman.com.

02:00:42.000 And also you can get me on Facebook.

02:00:44.000 There's a Facebook of mine coaching page where there's techniques and videos, withdrawal techniques and all sorts of stuff.

02:00:51.000 Beautiful.

02:00:52.000 It was a pleasure.

02:00:52.000 I really appreciate this, man.

02:00:53.000 Thank you, John.

02:00:54.000 Let's do this again sometime.

02:00:55.000 How often are you in California?

02:00:57.000 I'll be back very soon because Liam Harrison's fighting, Malai Pet and Andy Housen's fighting, Romy Adams, and I'm coming over with them.

02:01:03.000 When is that?

02:01:05.000 July the 31st, the fight is, so I'll be over before.

02:01:07.000 Where's that taking place?

02:01:09.000 I'm not too sure.

02:01:10.000 It's in California?

02:01:11.000 It's somewhere in Cali, yeah.

02:01:12.000 Really?

02:01:12.000 Okay, maybe I'll go to the fights.

02:01:14.000 I'd like to see that.

02:01:14.000 That sounds awesome.

02:01:15.000 That'd be great.

02:01:16.000 Beautiful.

02:01:16.000 Thank you, Vinny.

02:01:17.000 We really appreciate it.

02:01:18.000 Thank you very much.

02:01:18.000 All right, friends.

02:01:20.000 We'll be back next week.

02:01:21.000 Lots of great and entertaining guests.

02:01:24.000 Not as entertaining as this motherfucker, but we'll try.

02:01:28.000 See you soon.

02:01:46.000 Thank you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - June 18, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #662 - Vinny Shoreman

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