The Joe Rogan Experience - August 11, 2015


Joe Rogan Experience #681 - Gad Saad


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 47 minutes

Words per Minute

175.80322

Word Count

29,365

Sentence Count

2,432

Misogynist Sentences

71


Summary

The Godfather is back, and he's got a new segment called "Trigger Warning" in which he talks about the increasing use of "trigger warnings" as a tool to keep people safe from certain ideas and ideas that might upset them. He also talks about a new study that shows that the ratio of Democrats to Republicans in the U.S. is higher than it has ever been, and why this is a problem. And, of course, the Godfather talks about why you shouldn't have to be a conservative in college and why you should be exposed to multiple viewpoints in order to make sense of the world around you. Also, he's going to talk about how to deal with people who don't agree with you, and how you should deal with them in a way that makes sense to you, not only in the classroom, but in the real world. And he'll talk about why it's a good thing you're not allowed to be conservative in a university, because you'll get a better idea of what's going on in the world and what you should and shouldn't be allowed to think about in it. And, he'll also talk about a study that proves that the Democrats are more likely to believe evolution is a bad thing than the Republicans, and that evolution is better than you think it is, in fact, because it's better than the other way around. Enjoy! - The Godfather is a podcast that doesn't have it all, and it's not even close to being good enough, but it's good enough for you to know that it's actually good enough to make you feel good about it, so you should listen to it and think about it and reflect on it and write about it in your notes and write it and send it to someone who does it well enough so you don't have enough of it and make it better than it is good enough that you can do it in a thoughtful, thoughtful enough to actually care about it. You're not going to want to miss it, are you listening to it? Thank you for listening to this one, brother? - Tom and I hope you enjoy it, and don't forget about it? - Tom is back. -Tom and I love you, Tom is a good one, too. Tom's back, Tom's Back, too, Tomahawk Tom is Back! - and we'll see you next week, right, Tom?


Transcript

00:00:03.000 What's up, brother?
00:00:04.000 Welcome back.
00:00:05.000 Hey, so good to see you.
00:00:06.000 The Godfather.
00:00:07.000 I'm back.
00:00:09.000 You're one of the few college professors that has a sense of humor about yourself.
00:00:13.000 Like that, where you can joke around about that.
00:00:15.000 Exactly.
00:00:19.000 Yeah.
00:00:36.000 It's been on a lot of people's minds that work in academia because it's very confusing and it's very frustrating.
00:00:44.000 But there's severe limitations on the words that you can use and the thoughts even that you can have.
00:00:53.000 And this article is all about trigger warnings and that in one case...
00:01:02.000 Professors, listen to this.
00:01:03.000 Law students were asking fellow professors at Harvard not to teach rape law.
00:01:09.000 And in one case, even used the word violate, as in that violates the law.
00:01:17.000 Lest it cause distress.
00:01:19.000 The article is called The Coddling of the American Mind.
00:01:23.000 It's in the newest version of TheAtlantic.com.
00:01:26.000 It's just a couple of days old.
00:01:28.000 And it's fucking crazy what's going on with kids today.
00:01:33.000 And this article gets into it, and one of them was about something that there was a professor protecting himself with a pseudonym, and he wrote an essay for Vox.
00:01:47.000 Called, I'm a liberal professor and my liberal students terrify me.
00:01:51.000 Right.
00:01:52.000 What the fuck is going on?
00:01:54.000 Like, what is going on where people are getting in trouble for words like violate?
00:02:00.000 Right.
00:02:00.000 Well, by the way, one of the authors of that article is a good friend of mine who is the director of FIRE. I can't remember what the acronym stands for.
00:02:09.000 But he basically goes around, his organization goes around trying to protect freedom of speech.
00:02:15.000 First Amendment at campuses, precisely because of the unbelievable chilling effect of these types of, you know, lunacy movements.
00:02:23.000 It's very strange.
00:02:25.000 And you know what else is strange?
00:02:26.000 It seems like you're not allowed to be conservative in a university.
00:02:31.000 And by conservative, I don't mean restrictive of other people's liberties, like anti-gay rights or anti-choice or anti...
00:02:39.000 I'm talking about fiscally conservative.
00:02:41.000 I'm talking about, you know, being a person who...
00:02:44.000 It has the ideas that some in the Republican Party espouse.
00:02:49.000 You're not allowed to.
00:02:50.000 I'm not sure if we discussed this before, but even if we did, it's worth repeating.
00:02:54.000 I talked about an article that was done by some colleagues of mine, I don't know them well, but some academics, where they looked at the political affiliation of professors at top, I think it was Californian schools, whether they identified it or whether they actually had Democratic affiliation or Republican.
00:03:13.000 And as you might imagine, it was extraordinarily skewed towards Democrats.
00:03:18.000 But then depending on the field of study, so for example, in sociology and in the humanities and in women's studies, women with a Y, by the way, please don't write women with an E. That would be sexist.
00:03:28.000 Really?
00:03:29.000 Is that real?
00:03:35.000 They think that to have men as part of the word women is itself a form of aggression, so they've altered the spelling to women.
00:03:43.000 Oh no, that's not real.
00:03:45.000 See, your audience already has the price of admission covered with that story.
00:03:50.000 But it's still the word women.
00:03:53.000 It's still the same word.
00:03:54.000 Why do you have to change the letters?
00:03:57.000 So in sociology...
00:03:58.000 Do you change the word trigger because it sounds like the n-word?
00:04:03.000 Uh-oh.
00:04:05.000 Seriously?
00:04:06.000 You're getting triggered.
00:04:07.000 I'm triggered.
00:04:08.000 I'm triggered.
00:04:08.000 Well, I'm fucking triggered.
00:04:10.000 And if I was black, I'd be super triggered.
00:04:12.000 Well, I don't know if you notice some of my tweets now.
00:04:14.000 Whenever I tweet anything, I put trigger warning, trigger warning.
00:04:18.000 It's now become part of the vernacular to make it satirical.
00:04:21.000 It's too close to the N-word.
00:04:22.000 Way too close.
00:04:23.000 I'm triggered.
00:04:24.000 But anyways.
00:04:25.000 To finish the point about that study, 44 to 1, the ratio in sociology.
00:04:32.000 So imagine if you are a student doing an undergrad in sociology, right?
00:04:36.000 It's not a very good thing to have almost all of the professors that you will ever come across be of one particular persuasion.
00:04:43.000 Now, some people will write to me and say, but what do you mean?
00:04:45.000 The Democrats have everything right.
00:04:47.000 They have truth on their side, and the Republicans are a bunch of hacks.
00:04:50.000 Now, when it comes to evolution...
00:04:52.000 Evolution, that's true, right?
00:04:54.000 If on average, Republicans are more likely to deny evolution, then that point is well taken.
00:04:59.000 But when it comes to issues, is the death penalty right or wrong?
00:05:03.000 What kind of fiscal policy should you have?
00:05:05.000 What type of foreign policy should you have?
00:05:06.000 This is not a one plus one scientific equation.
00:05:10.000 So you should be exposed to multiple viewpoints.
00:05:14.000 But of course, you shouldn't be because you should only interact with people who are similar to you.
00:05:18.000 Well, that is a problem with a lot of people that go to college, graduate, get their PhD, get their doctorate, and then start teaching and never enter the real world.
00:05:28.000 Right.
00:05:28.000 They stay in this sort of insulated world of academia, and then they espouse these same ideas, they promote these same ideas, they promote the same way of thinking as if this is the real world, because this is the only world they know.
00:05:42.000 True.
00:05:43.000 You know one of the things about comedians is a lot of them are like really crazy and fucked up and they do a lot of drugs and they're just out of control and nuts and they kind of forget that other people aren't like that and sometimes I'll bring like one of my regular friends around like the Comedy Store and they're around some of my comedian friends that are fucking crazy and they go Jesus Christ these guys just talk about ridiculous shit that they did like it's no big deal and And I'm like,
00:06:11.000 well, in their world, it isn't a big deal.
00:06:14.000 In their world, this is the normal world.
00:06:15.000 And everyone else is a civilian.
00:06:17.000 That's how they look at it.
00:06:19.000 That's how, you know, the quote-unquote hardcore comedians look at it.
00:06:22.000 I think in academia, you have a similar sort of a situation where they really do believe in microaggressions.
00:06:29.000 They think that microaggressions are real.
00:06:31.000 There was a fucking...
00:06:32.000 This is one of the parts of the article that was really hilarious.
00:06:35.000 There was...
00:06:38.000 They were trying to raise awareness about microaggressions, but in doing so and raising awareness for microaggressions, they had to give examples of these microaggressions, which triggered people!
00:06:51.000 It's an infinite loop of victimology.
00:06:55.000 So this guy had to apologize.
00:06:58.000 He had to apologize for triggering people with his microaggression examples.
00:07:05.000 And some of them were like, aren't you all supposed to be good at math to Asians?
00:07:11.000 Like, that is a microaggression.
00:07:14.000 I mean, is it a microaggression to say good things?
00:07:16.000 This is what confuses me.
00:07:18.000 Because, like...
00:07:19.000 If you said to a black guy, you guys all have big dicks, right?
00:07:24.000 Is that a microaggression?
00:07:25.000 Well, it's perpetuating racial stereotypes.
00:07:29.000 Right, it is.
00:07:29.000 But isn't it a good stereotype?
00:07:31.000 Everybody wants a big dick, allegedly.
00:07:36.000 Here's another microaggression that I thought was hilarious.
00:07:39.000 I'm colorblind.
00:07:40.000 I don't see race.
00:07:41.000 Right.
00:07:41.000 That's a microaggression.
00:07:43.000 You should see race.
00:07:44.000 Yes, you should see race.
00:07:46.000 So Stephen Colbert, when he says he doesn't see race, he is engaging in microaggressions.
00:07:50.000 It's a microaggression.
00:07:51.000 There you go.
00:07:51.000 American, the word American, by the way, is an aggression.
00:07:55.000 American's an aggression?
00:07:56.000 Yeah.
00:07:57.000 How's that?
00:07:57.000 Well, because you're usurping all of the Americas to imply that it's only the United States of America.
00:08:03.000 So by saying that it's America, it's as if the rest of the countries don't exist.
00:08:06.000 Pshew!
00:08:08.000 Wow.
00:08:09.000 One of them is, America is the land of opportunity.
00:08:12.000 That is a microaggression.
00:08:14.000 Why is that one offensive?
00:08:16.000 It doesn't make any sense.
00:08:18.000 Or here's another microaggression.
00:08:20.000 I believe the most qualified person should get the job.
00:08:24.000 Oh, that's elitist.
00:08:25.000 That's a meritocracy.
00:08:26.000 That's bad.
00:08:30.000 How is that possible?
00:08:31.000 How could it be bad for the most qualified person to get a job?
00:08:34.000 Isn't that the whole idea of job applications?
00:08:37.000 You're so elitist.
00:08:38.000 How dare you?
00:08:39.000 We have a sponsor for this podcast called ZipRecruiter.
00:08:43.000 And one of ZipRecruiter's things is if they're trying to fill out a job, it allows you to post to 100 plus job sites with one click.
00:08:50.000 And the idea is to find the most qualified candidate, which would in turn get you the best person for the job, which is a microaggression.
00:08:59.000 Right.
00:08:59.000 So ZipRecruiter is a micro-aggression company.
00:09:03.000 God, how horrible.
00:09:05.000 It's lunacy.
00:09:06.000 I mean, you wonder if at some point there'll be some sort of auto-correction of all this.
00:09:11.000 I would hope so.
00:09:13.000 I think that that is what's going on with a lot of our culture.
00:09:17.000 I think what a lot of our culture is, is an auto-correction for the ignorance and hypocrisy of like the 60s and the 70s and the 80s.
00:09:26.000 And so we're going way the other way.
00:09:28.000 Right.
00:09:29.000 You know, with like, did you see Bernie Sanders' speech get interrupted for Black Lives Matter?
00:09:34.000 Like, who doesn't think Black Lives Matter?
00:09:37.000 I mean, I want someone who doesn't think Black Lives Matter to speak.
00:09:42.000 Because all I've heard is people who agree, Black Lives Matter.
00:09:46.000 I mean, everybody agrees.
00:09:47.000 I don't know anybody who doesn't think that these shootings, the police shootings are horrific.
00:09:53.000 But to interrupt a guy who is easily the most liberal...
00:09:57.000 That's what I was going to say, exactly.
00:09:58.000 Out of all the candidates for president, a guy who is the most diverse, a guy who marched with Martin Luther fucking King.
00:10:05.000 He marched in the civil rights movement.
00:10:07.000 He's been a civil rights advocate since the 1960s, and they interrupt his presidential speeches.
00:10:16.000 You know, I have a theory that a lot of these folks, you know, are the Che Guevara wearing t-shirt wearing guys, right?
00:10:23.000 They want to feel part of a greater cause.
00:10:26.000 Yes.
00:10:27.000 So even though many of those battles have passed them by, they've been won.
00:10:31.000 I mean, civil rights.
00:10:32.000 I mean, of course, there's still racism.
00:10:34.000 But in terms of institutionalized endemic racism, we certainly are much better than we were 50 years ago.
00:10:39.000 But yet, you know, they're young kids, they're revolutionary, they're wearing Che Guevara, you know, viva la revolution, and they have to engage in this kind of behavior.
00:10:47.000 30 years from now, they'll watch that YouTube clip and they'll think they're a bunch of buffoons.
00:10:51.000 I think that's a very valid possibility.
00:10:54.000 I think another possibility is that when you look at people and they're trying to find, like, causes to support, I think there's a lot of people out there that are just fucking assholes.
00:11:09.000 And what they're doing is trying to find something that allows them to get out that asshole aggression and be justified.
00:11:17.000 You know, something that allows them to be righteous.
00:11:20.000 Black Lives Matter, you fucking piece of shit!
00:11:22.000 And they're screaming at someone who believes Black Lives Matter.
00:11:25.000 Screaming at someone who's not even remotely racist.
00:11:27.000 But they will yell it in your face the way they did at this Bernie Sanders thing in order to just get their rocks off.
00:11:36.000 Whatever personal frustrations, whatever psychological failures that they have...
00:11:54.000 It's not that this Demands attention at this moment in order to solve a problem because there's a fucking fire We have to put this fire out right now or people are gonna die.
00:12:08.000 No, this that has nothing to do with that It gives them the opportunity to grandstand to take a moral high ground and to scream out and beg for attention Right and to be good because nobody could you can't say it like racism fucking sucks Nobody can say hey,
00:12:23.000 it's not that bad.
00:12:24.000 You know he can't say that So you could be like super aggressive and really shitty and confrontational and insulting about a cause you believe in.
00:12:34.000 And that is one of the problems that I have with this whole social justice warrior movement.
00:12:39.000 Because I find a lot of these people that are involved in it to be asshole human beings.
00:12:45.000 And even though I agree with a lot of what they support, I think they suck.
00:12:51.000 And when I go to their Twitter pages, and I look at what their interactions are, all their interactions are insulting people, and getting angry at people, and it's all negative.
00:13:02.000 Please.
00:13:03.000 Yeah, if I can interject.
00:13:05.000 I think they don't have an ability to accept that people might have differing opinions, right?
00:13:11.000 You and I can debate many issues, and yet we can leave here both being respectful of one another.
00:13:16.000 And so I think the discourse is, I'm right.
00:13:19.000 If you think otherwise, you must be an asshole, and I will shut you down.
00:13:23.000 And so they really don't have this capacity, this critical capacity, to engage in reasoned dialogue.
00:13:29.000 I saw it, I mean...
00:13:30.000 I'm lucky in that I don't really get many of these social justice warrior trolls.
00:13:35.000 I mean, 99% of the people that interact with me are very nice and very sweet.
00:13:38.000 But that small 1% to 5% group that, as you mentioned, are real assholes, it's almost impenetrable to try to speak to them, right?
00:13:46.000 I mean, I engage them in a very dispassionate manner, you know, hopefully providing them with facts, trying to be polite.
00:13:52.000 But I am an asshole simply for disagreeing with them.
00:13:56.000 And so most of the people that I've blocked, there aren't that many, but the ones that I've blocked, it's because I try to engage them.
00:14:03.000 And the only way they can engage in return is to insult.
00:14:07.000 And so it's a real breakdown of civil discourse.
00:14:11.000 And also, insult when it's just a matter of opinion about things that are debatable.
00:14:17.000 Exactly.
00:14:17.000 Like, here's one.
00:14:18.000 You know the story about Occidental University, or Occidental College?
00:14:22.000 College.
00:14:23.000 Occidental College, where there was two students that got drunk, and a boy and a girl, they texted each other, and the boy and the girl had sex, and the boy got accused of rape and kicked out of the school where the girl stayed.
00:14:37.000 And I was like, well, that's crazy.
00:14:39.000 Like, first of all, You're changing the rules of human behavior, because people have been getting drunk and having sex since the beginning of time.
00:14:47.000 And so to call it rape now, after all these years, just on a whim, especially when two people are consenting adults.
00:14:55.000 They're consenting adults.
00:14:56.000 They can go to war.
00:14:57.000 I mean, they can't really vote yet.
00:14:58.000 They're 18, right?
00:14:59.000 Can you vote at 18?
00:15:00.000 Yeah, you can't drink.
00:15:01.000 They can't drink yet.
00:15:03.000 You can in Montreal.
00:15:04.000 You can in Montreal, and you're a crazy country.
00:15:06.000 But the idea that the boy is responsible and the girl's not, to me, seems ridiculous.
00:15:12.000 And it seems contradictory to the whole idea of feminism in the first place is that we're equal.
00:15:17.000 Now, if we are equal, why are we not equal in terms of our ability to take...
00:15:23.000 Responsibility for being under the influence.
00:15:26.000 I mean, if you were responsible for being under the influence when you're driving, if you're responsible for being under the influence if you commit violence, why are you not responsible for being under the influence when you have sex if you're a girl?
00:15:38.000 That's crazy.
00:15:39.000 Well, when I said this, oh my God, the amount of people that called me a misogynist...
00:15:45.000 Rape and a lot.
00:15:46.000 A rape enabler, an enablist, an ableist, a piece of shit.
00:15:50.000 But it was all insulting.
00:15:52.000 It's like, how can it be insulting when this is a debatable point?
00:15:54.000 This is a clearly rational, debatable point.
00:15:58.000 You're talking about two human beings that are adults that got drunk, but the male is the rapist.
00:16:03.000 That's ridiculous.
00:16:05.000 I don't know the exact details, but there are now, on some university campuses, you actually have a consent form where you sort of go through the iterative steps as you're starting to engage in sex.
00:16:17.000 So we are now in the foreplay stage.
00:16:19.000 Do you hereby consent?
00:16:21.000 And we both sign.
00:16:22.000 Oh my God.
00:16:23.000 I think putting on Barry White music might be a bit more mood-inducing than signing an iterative legal document.
00:16:29.000 Well, Barry White music is rape-enabling because what you're doing is you're coercing.
00:16:33.000 You're making the women aroused, hence they don't have all their faculties.
00:16:37.000 Exactly.
00:16:37.000 Therefore, Barry White is a genocidal rapist.
00:16:39.000 I see it.
00:16:41.000 That's the language that they're using, is I was unable to consent.
00:16:45.000 Right.
00:16:46.000 Which, obviously, there's a scale, right?
00:16:49.000 We can all agree that there is a level where people are at.
00:16:53.000 You're breathing deeply into that mic, sir.
00:16:56.000 We had an issue with it the other day.
00:16:58.000 Is this better?
00:16:58.000 Because, yeah, my friend Barry Crimmins was here, and he got a little hammered, and he was breathing into the mic.
00:17:03.000 I got like a hundred stop people from breathing into the mic tweets.
00:17:06.000 What is this, Jamie?
00:17:08.000 Uh, Is this real?
00:17:09.000 Jake was drunk.
00:17:11.000 Josie was drunk.
00:17:11.000 Oh, that's right.
00:17:12.000 I've seen this.
00:17:13.000 Jake and Josie hooked up.
00:17:14.000 Josie could not consent.
00:17:15.000 The next day, Jake was charged with rape.
00:17:17.000 There you go.
00:17:18.000 What the fuck is that?
00:17:19.000 That's a real poster?
00:17:20.000 I tweeted that.
00:17:22.000 I remember this.
00:17:23.000 You know, for example, if a high-status male seduces a lower-status woman, that itself could be construed as a form of rape, precisely because his power is so intoxicating.
00:17:36.000 Right.
00:17:36.000 Right.
00:17:36.000 Like a professor and a student, perhaps.
00:17:38.000 But in that sense, I mean, you have ethical boundaries, right?
00:17:41.000 Right.
00:17:41.000 But I mean, forget it.
00:17:42.000 I mean, just a guy who meets a girl at a bar and he happens to be a professor.
00:17:45.000 So a rich man and a poor woman.
00:17:47.000 Right.
00:17:48.000 By virtue of the difference in hierarchy, that itself could be construed as coercive because she wasn't able to control herself in the face of this overpowering man.
00:17:59.000 Not physically, just because of his high status.
00:18:01.000 Well, the reality of being a male is if an attractive woman comes on to a man, she's raping him.
00:18:08.000 Because you have no control.
00:18:10.000 Like, if a beautiful woman comes on to a guy like Jamie at a bar, that poor kid's fucked.
00:18:14.000 Look at him.
00:18:14.000 This is Jamie?
00:18:15.000 That's Jamie.
00:18:16.000 Look at him over there.
00:18:16.000 He's fucked.
00:18:17.000 If some Tracy Lords in her prime-looking chick comes up to Jamie...
00:18:20.000 Wow, that's a reference from the 19th?
00:18:22.000 Wow!
00:18:23.000 Yeah, I met her.
00:18:24.000 She's hot.
00:18:24.000 Still.
00:18:26.000 Wasn't she a porn star at 15?
00:18:27.000 Easy, easy.
00:18:29.000 Stop wrecking the party.
00:18:31.000 Yeah, I believe she was.
00:18:33.000 By the way, since we're on porn references, can I tell you maybe the greatest, I receive a lot of comments on my stuff, maybe the greatest one I've ever received, somebody wrote, I hope I'm getting the exact quote, in reference to me, he wrote, this guy is the Ron Jeremy of evolutionary psychology.
00:18:52.000 I said, I could drop the mic and just, you know, retire.
00:18:56.000 Well, that means you're disgusting but effective.
00:19:00.000 I'm fat and sweaty and hairy.
00:19:03.000 That's what you're saying?
00:19:04.000 Well, the whole thing about Ron Jeremy was Ron Jeremy existed in an era where the guys were supposed to be gross because people watching porn were all guys.
00:19:13.000 So you wanted like a guy who was disgusting to be getting laid.
00:19:17.000 So you're like, I got a chance.
00:19:19.000 This could happen.
00:19:20.000 Look how hot she is.
00:19:21.000 And she fucks Ron Jeremy.
00:19:22.000 Oh, yeah.
00:19:24.000 Nowadays, the men are equally unattainable as well, and the idea is that the women watch it with men, allegedly.
00:19:32.000 I don't know anything about that.
00:19:33.000 I'm sure porn is raping their culture anyway.
00:19:36.000 By the way, I was contacted once by a former porn star who had already had, I think, an MBA. And he wanted to pursue his PhD with me.
00:19:49.000 He actually came up to Montreal, spent a few days with me, visited my lab, and then ended up not going on for a PhD.
00:19:58.000 So that's the closest I've come to a porn star, a guy who almost became my doctoral student.
00:20:03.000 That's interesting.
00:20:04.000 Maybe I could even say his name.
00:20:05.000 I think a man who does that has a bit more freedom to move around.
00:20:11.000 If a woman does that, she's sort of labeled by our culture in some sort of a weird way.
00:20:16.000 Maybe less so in Canada.
00:20:18.000 Less so in Canada, you think?
00:20:20.000 In terms of...
00:20:21.000 You guys are a little bit more loose, actually.
00:20:23.000 Well, you've been to Montreal.
00:20:25.000 You were there recently.
00:20:26.000 You see that every second store is a strip bar.
00:20:29.000 Yeah, you guys have a lot of strip bars up there, but it's also just the way people talk and act about sex.
00:20:36.000 It just doesn't seem shameful.
00:20:38.000 Less puritanical.
00:20:39.000 Yeah.
00:20:39.000 We're so fucking poisoned.
00:20:42.000 Quebec is even more so what you're saying.
00:20:44.000 Because it's French.
00:20:45.000 Exactly.
00:20:46.000 So it's got that European vibe.
00:20:47.000 So in the context of Canada, some of the Anglo-Saxon provinces historically might be closer to Americans.
00:20:55.000 But Quebec, it's a free-for-all.
00:20:58.000 Yeah, Quebec is crazy.
00:20:59.000 So, like, the more conservative spots where there's very few people and everyone's scared and you believe in Jesus more.
00:21:08.000 Don't go to Saskatchewan if you want to get lucky.
00:21:10.000 Oh, really?
00:21:11.000 I'm joking, Saskatchewan.
00:21:13.000 Saskatchewan right now, they're fucking warming up their fingers for hate mail.
00:21:18.000 But that's how it is in America, too.
00:21:21.000 It's like the spots that are, like, really...
00:21:22.000 There's not a lot of people.
00:21:23.000 They're in the middle of nowhere.
00:21:25.000 There's fucking churches everywhere in those spots.
00:21:27.000 Yeah.
00:21:28.000 I found that in Latin America, too, or Central America.
00:21:31.000 I was in Costa Rica recently, and the poor of the neighborhood, the prevalence of churches was like through the roof.
00:21:36.000 It was crazy.
00:21:37.000 We were driving to the cloud forest, and as we're driving up there, you pass through all these really small, rural communities, and God, you see a lot of churches.
00:21:45.000 Yeah.
00:21:46.000 You know, people, I guess they need hope in those spots that are kind of...
00:21:50.000 Solves the biggest existential angst of all, mortality.
00:21:53.000 By the way, speaking of mortality, let me do the segue.
00:21:57.000 It is your birthday.
00:21:58.000 It is my birthday.
00:21:59.000 Officially, the Godfather is hereby wishing you a happy birthday.
00:22:03.000 I feel blessed.
00:22:04.000 What can I get Joe as a gift?
00:22:06.000 By the way, I owe you a copy of one of my books signed.
00:22:09.000 Forgive me, I didn't send it.
00:22:10.000 All right.
00:22:11.000 This guy's got fame.
00:22:13.000 He's got the looks.
00:22:14.000 He's got charisma.
00:22:14.000 He's got money.
00:22:16.000 Keep going.
00:22:16.000 I can't get him anything.
00:22:18.000 Good.
00:22:18.000 Except I can get him.
00:22:20.000 You.
00:22:20.000 Godfather.
00:22:21.000 There you go.
00:22:21.000 August 11th.
00:22:23.000 Yeah, I don't want anything.
00:22:25.000 People keep giving...
00:22:25.000 Jamie gave me something cool, though.
00:22:26.000 But, you know, I think that the existential angst of death being solved by religion, for a lot of people, is like a nice little scaffolding to just sort of like carry your way through life.
00:22:39.000 You know, people have gotten angry at me for suggesting that.
00:22:41.000 I'm not suggesting it for you or for anybody.
00:22:44.000 I mean, I'm not suggesting...
00:22:47.000 There's a lot of things that people do that I wouldn't want to do that they do to kind of get by in this life, whether it's take Xanax or drink every night after work in order to keep from kicking their dog.
00:22:58.000 I don't know what the fuck is going on in your head, but for a lot of people in these bad rural-type situations, it seems to be a common theme.
00:23:10.000 And if you really look at everything as being natural, which is what I try to do, that term nature, Everybody wants to look at that as like wildlife outside of cities.
00:23:22.000 I kind of look at everything as nature.
00:23:24.000 And I look at human behavior patterns and how much they repeat themselves as being pretty natural.
00:23:31.000 And these weird little spots where there's not a lot of people seems to attract a lot of churches.
00:23:36.000 You know, I wrote an article on that point, I think maybe a year or two ago.
00:23:42.000 It was somebody else's research that I was summarizing, looking at the content of prayers.
00:23:47.000 So what is it that people pray about?
00:23:49.000 Money.
00:23:50.000 No, but as a function of their income status, their socioeconomic status.
00:23:55.000 And as you might predict, the content of what I pray to God about drastically changes as a function of where I fit in that hierarchy.
00:24:03.000 What do people that are really rich pray about?
00:24:06.000 Maybe health.
00:24:07.000 Must be, right?
00:24:08.000 Health and family and stuff like that.
00:24:14.000 It's one of those things where I reluctantly not just accept it, but I almost support it.
00:24:25.000 You mean religiosity?
00:24:26.000 Yeah.
00:24:26.000 For people that are in bad places and bad situations, I see that it helps.
00:24:32.000 Well, so chapter eight of one of my books, I titled it very provocatively, perhaps, Marketing Hope by Selling Lies.
00:24:39.000 And I give different examples of hope peddlers, medical quacks, self-help gurus, And, of course, I argue that the greatest peddler of hope is, of course, religion.
00:24:50.000 And so you're exactly right.
00:24:52.000 I think it takes almost a maladaptive honesty to not believe because it is so much more comforting to believe.
00:24:59.000 And also the people that decide not to believe, it's almost like they have to try so hard in those areas to not believe that they become angry about it.
00:25:09.000 They become angry about their disbelief.
00:25:12.000 Right.
00:25:12.000 Well, I'm a non-believer.
00:25:14.000 I'm not angry.
00:25:15.000 I'm very jovial.
00:25:16.000 Well, you're a very intelligent man.
00:25:17.000 You can recognize these patterns and not succumb.
00:25:21.000 But for a lot of folks also, you're dealing with so many people in your community.
00:25:26.000 They're also part of that.
00:25:28.000 And then the church becomes like a sort of a community center by proxy.
00:25:32.000 Well, David Sloan Wilson, who's an evolutionary biologist, a good friend of mine, very famous biologist, he looks at the evolutionary roots of religion.
00:25:41.000 And he actually argues, a great book, I'm doing this plugging for him now, I think he wrote in 2002, Darwin's Cathedral, where he actually demonstrated or argued that groups that are religious actually out-survive those that are not, using an argument of communality,
00:25:58.000 right?
00:25:58.000 Groups that are religious are more cohesive, band together, are more communal, therefore they should be able to out-survive other groups.
00:26:07.000 Now his theories are a bit contentious because many evolutionary psychologists And evolutionary biologists reject the idea that evolution can happen at the group level.
00:26:16.000 They argue that evolution should happen at the individual, at the gene level.
00:26:20.000 And this is a fight that he's been having for many years now.
00:26:22.000 But that's one example where you could actually study religion, not only from a scientific perspective, but from an evolutionary perspective.
00:26:29.000 I have a friend who lives in a, they're married, the male and female are married in a sort of a rural area.
00:26:38.000 And a long time ago I was having this conversation with them where the wife was just sort of explaining how if it wasn't for religion, her and the husband wouldn't be together.
00:26:51.000 And the way she was saying it was kind of like her husband was dumb and like he needs something to keep him like on this good path and pattern and they'd been married for like at the time I think like 15 or 20 years and she was like do you think that we would have still been together if it wasn't for our belief in God and the Lord and whether or not and then she goes whether or not it's real Wow.
00:27:14.000 And I was like, whoa, this is some heavy shit.
00:27:16.000 It's almost like she's giving her husband some sort of placebo to keep this guy from drinking and fucking getting on a train like a hobo or whatever the hell she thinks he would do.
00:27:26.000 You know, like God kind of kept them together and kept the family together.
00:27:30.000 But she was looking at it in a very pragmatic way.
00:27:33.000 And I was like, wow, this is deep.
00:27:35.000 You know, in the Middle East, and I've seen it in my own family, there is this incredible fatalism that comes with religiosity.
00:27:42.000 So I have a family member.
00:27:44.000 I won't mention who it is.
00:27:46.000 Ariel Helwani?
00:27:47.000 Not Ariel Helwani.
00:27:48.000 By the way, shout out to my nephew and to all the Twitters out there.
00:27:54.000 He really is my nephew.
00:27:56.000 He's my sister's son.
00:27:59.000 But anyways, so this male member, not Ariel.
00:28:04.000 Shout out to Ariel.
00:28:05.000 He views everybody.
00:28:07.000 He views everything through the lens of it's God's will.
00:28:10.000 So if he opens up a store and the store doesn't do well, well, it's not that he might have made some bad, poor business decisions.
00:28:18.000 It must be God's will.
00:28:20.000 Had God wanted it to be differently, then things would have turned out differently.
00:28:25.000 And that type of fatalism is actually quite...
00:28:29.000 Depressing in that it doesn't allow for a feedback loop, right?
00:28:32.000 I mean, you don't get feedback from the environment that says, change course of action.
00:28:35.000 If everything that happens, happens because it's God's will, then you're really just an empty vessel that's just executing God's will.
00:28:43.000 And you see that a lot in the Middle East, if God wants inshallah, if God this, if God that, if it was meant to be.
00:28:50.000 It's really part of the parlance of Arabic language.
00:28:53.000 Yeah, practice and feedback loops are what it's all about.
00:28:57.000 I mean, that's what life is.
00:28:58.000 And when you're opening a business or doing a sport or, you know, whatever the fuck it is, it's practice, reviewing data, feedback loop, making possible corrections, objectivity.
00:29:11.000 All those things are what makes people improve.
00:29:14.000 As a matter of fact, I read an article recently about music.
00:29:17.000 They were discussing music, that the inherent qualities of someone's music are really just a lot of what makes a great musician is practice and feedback loops.
00:29:29.000 I mean, that's really what it is.
00:29:31.000 It's not God's will.
00:29:31.000 But if you believe that...
00:29:35.000 It's limiting and empowering at the same time.
00:29:37.000 Right, exactly.
00:29:38.000 Because if you also are involved in this practice feedback loop, but you really think God's on your side because you play a fucking mean axe.
00:29:45.000 There's actually a psychological trait that maps onto what we're talking about.
00:29:49.000 It's a locus of control.
00:29:51.000 Are you familiar with this term?
00:29:52.000 Do you know it?
00:29:53.000 No, I'm not.
00:29:54.000 So locus of control is basically the idea, some of us are internally Driven in terms of our locus of control, meaning that we attribute things that happen to us to us.
00:30:03.000 I did well on the exam because I studied hard, because I'm intelligent.
00:30:08.000 Versus external locus of control, as you attribute it to environmental factors.
00:30:12.000 I did poorly on the exam, not because I didn't study, but because the professor is an asshole.
00:30:16.000 He's an idiot, right?
00:30:17.000 And so people who score high on external locus of control, then you can predict certain other behaviors.
00:30:25.000 For example, they're much more likely to be gamblers.
00:30:28.000 Precisely because it's fatalism, right?
00:30:30.000 I mean, my turn will come.
00:30:32.000 It's written in the skies.
00:30:34.000 The black, it should be up soon, right?
00:30:36.000 If you're internally locus of control, then you know that all that stuff is random.
00:30:41.000 And the red and black, they come or go, depending on how that ball drops.
00:30:45.000 Exactly.
00:30:46.000 Yeah, that's a lot of people do really firmly believe in that.
00:30:50.000 And that's how they get through this life.
00:30:54.000 And it's very much a blinder.
00:30:57.000 It puts them in a very narrow channel that's very difficult to escape.
00:31:02.000 Once you have that firm belief, You know, that these patterns are sort of clearly established.
00:31:10.000 It's going to be my time.
00:31:11.000 My time's coming.
00:31:12.000 My time.
00:31:13.000 Going back to the gambling, casinos actually are, or operators are very smart.
00:31:17.000 They play on that cognitive illusion.
00:31:20.000 Because what they do is they give you this card where you keep track of how many times it's come on red and how many times the number 13 has come.
00:31:30.000 It's a complete illusion, right?
00:31:32.000 They give you a card?
00:31:33.000 You could take a card.
00:31:34.000 It's when you play roulette?
00:31:35.000 Exactly.
00:31:35.000 So if you go to the Montreal casino, you can get those cards.
00:31:38.000 Oh, look, 13 has come up 14 times, but I think 37 is up, should be up soon, right?
00:31:44.000 What it's doing, basically, is it's giving you a sense of control over otherwise completely random events, right?
00:32:02.000 How rude.
00:32:11.000 But what's crazy is when luck is on their side, it seems real.
00:32:16.000 Like when you get a hot hand, like I don't play craps, but I've seen people play craps, and they get a hot hand, they start rolling dice, and yes!
00:32:23.000 And they feel like they can't lose, and they'll go on a hot streak.
00:32:26.000 They'll go on a hot streak with blackjack as well.
00:32:29.000 They get the right cards and poker.
00:32:31.000 And it feels like it's happening.
00:32:33.000 But because that hot streak is itself a random pattern.
00:32:37.000 I'll tell you a great story.
00:32:39.000 And I'll actually mention who it is.
00:32:41.000 I hope he won't be upset if I mention it.
00:32:42.000 It's my father, who's an avid 649 player.
00:32:45.000 I bet your dad doesn't listen to this shit.
00:32:47.000 Probably not.
00:32:49.000 649 basically is a lottery game played in Quebec.
00:32:52.000 You choose six numbers out of 49. Your chances of getting it are infinitesimally small.
00:32:58.000 And so one day he had called me at the office, at my university office.
00:33:03.000 He said, hey son, I'm playing some cards.
00:33:07.000 Give me six numbers.
00:33:08.000 I said, oh dad, I have some students in my office.
00:33:10.000 Can I call you back?
00:33:10.000 He goes, just give me six numbers.
00:33:12.000 So I said, all right, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. So then he goes, well, if you're not going to take the damn game seriously, why am I calling you, right?
00:33:18.000 Now, why did he do that?
00:33:19.000 Because he actually was convinced that the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and I bet some of your listeners will also think that, that the numbers 1 through 6...
00:33:28.000 It's less likely of a combination to come up than any other combination of six numbers, simply because it has the illusion of looking ordered.
00:33:37.000 But it isn't.
00:33:38.000 It is just one of the 14 million possible combinations.
00:33:42.000 I think it's one out of 14 million.
00:33:43.000 So again, these biases, these cognitive traps are so alluring, and it's so easy for people to succumb to them.
00:33:49.000 Is it single-digit numbers?
00:33:51.000 Can it be double-digit numbers?
00:33:51.000 No, it goes up to 49. 49 digits?
00:33:54.000 No, no, no.
00:33:54.000 49 numbers.
00:33:56.000 1 to 49, you pick your 6. Oh, I see.
00:33:58.000 So you can pick 12, 18, 39, 42. Oh, I see.
00:34:01.000 And so I just picked 1 through 6, and he was absolutely convinced that that combination of 6 numbers is simply...
00:34:08.000 It's ridiculous.
00:34:08.000 Yeah.
00:34:09.000 You're a fool.
00:34:10.000 I'm an idiot.
00:34:11.000 Yeah.
00:34:13.000 The lottery itself is such a trap.
00:34:15.000 My grandmother used to only talk about the lottery.
00:34:17.000 She'd talk about the lottery and dead people that were talking to her.
00:34:21.000 My grandmother was like, she was crazy.
00:34:23.000 And she firmly believed that she had some psychic ability.
00:34:27.000 Right.
00:34:28.000 And she's always like, I knew that number was going to come up.
00:34:32.000 She would always tell you, I was gonna bet, and she would talk about what number she was gonna bet, and I was gonna bet nine, and I didn't put it in.
00:34:39.000 You know, nine came through.
00:34:41.000 Six, two, five, you know, she'd rattle off whatever the fuck the number was.
00:34:44.000 And this was back in the day in New Jersey, where they would play the numbers, which is like this local, created sort of lottery that the mob ran.
00:34:55.000 It was this weird thing, and my grandmother was a part of it.
00:34:58.000 She would, like, help run the numbers.
00:35:00.000 Nice.
00:35:01.000 Yeah, she, I don't know what her function was, but she was a part of it to the point where she got arrested and did six months in jail.
00:35:10.000 For running the numbers?
00:35:12.000 Yeah, because she wouldn't rat anybody out.
00:35:14.000 So, you know, my grandmother would like knit Like little scarves and shit for the guards and do all kinds of weird shit.
00:35:22.000 I didn't find out about this until later.
00:35:24.000 When I was a kid, we just thought Grandma was just fucking busy traveling or something.
00:35:27.000 We had no idea where the hell she was.
00:35:29.000 We'd go visit, you know, Grandpa.
00:35:30.000 Where's Grandma?
00:35:31.000 We couldn't find her.
00:35:33.000 She was, oh, she's visiting your Aunt Mary.
00:35:35.000 It was always like something, but she was in the pokey.
00:35:38.000 Right.
00:35:39.000 Doing a hard time for numbers.
00:35:42.000 Speaking of kind of kooky family members, I have a paternal aunt.
00:35:48.000 And I've actually written about this.
00:35:49.000 Do you know what tassiography is?
00:35:50.000 It's a fancy term for something that you might otherwise know.
00:35:52.000 Is that term?
00:35:53.000 No.
00:35:54.000 So tassiography is the reading of your fate, since we're talking about these issues, through...
00:36:00.000 In the Middle East, we do it with...
00:36:02.000 Tea leaves or some shit?
00:36:04.000 You could do it with tea leaves, or you could do it with the residue that's what you flip over the coffee mug, the Turkish, right?
00:36:10.000 So the residue that's left, that's what you read.
00:36:12.000 So this lady would come over to our house, and I was, you know, maybe a seven, eight, nine-year-old boy, and I already knew that the jig was up on this thing.
00:36:20.000 And when she would come over, it would be like the Pope is visiting, right?
00:36:24.000 And Laura is coming over to tell us about our future.
00:36:28.000 So then she would start, you know, she'd look at these random patterns and the things that she would say are, you know, I see happiness in your future.
00:36:36.000 Well, I could have a good bowel movement later and that's happiness.
00:36:40.000 The Dallas Cowboys could win and that's happiness.
00:36:42.000 My wife and I can have sex tonight and that's happiness.
00:36:45.000 So there is no way to falsify her profoundly general prediction, right?
00:36:50.000 She never looked at the...
00:36:52.000 At the residue and said, you will be getting a 13.7% increase in your income, right?
00:36:59.000 Specificity is the enemy of these fortune tellers, right?
00:37:02.000 So they give you these vague predictions, which you could then fill into your life in any infinite number of possible ways.
00:37:09.000 Yeah, we had this guy on the sci-fi show that I did.
00:37:13.000 His name is Banachek and he's a master at what he calls, they call it mentalism or something like that.
00:37:18.000 He's a mentalist.
00:37:20.000 And he is one of those guys that will tell you absolutely straightforward, this is bullshit.
00:37:27.000 I am using tricks, and I won't tell you what the tricks are, but I will tell you right now, I am not a psychic.
00:37:34.000 This is not magic.
00:37:35.000 Magic is not real.
00:37:37.000 He actually gets angry at people that pretend that they could...
00:37:40.000 Like, you remember there was a whole series of those shows that they've since pulled off the air, but where there were psychics and, you know, there was like the Long Island medium.
00:37:49.000 Oh, right.
00:37:50.000 You remember when they were talking to people's dead relatives and all this stuff?
00:37:53.000 They have something to do with dead animals.
00:37:56.000 Was there one of those?
00:37:57.000 I think there's one.
00:37:58.000 So there is a cross-species psychic.
00:38:01.000 Can you imagine your fucking dog doesn't say jack shit to you when he's alive, but when he's dead, he starts talking to psychics.
00:38:07.000 That's right.
00:38:08.000 Yeah, man.
00:38:09.000 I didn't like the way you pet me, bro.
00:38:10.000 Pet the back of my head like I'm an asshole.
00:38:14.000 Right.
00:38:15.000 Well, this idea that someone can actually read into your past and pull this information...
00:38:22.000 Is so appealing to people that they mistake the way the person's questioning them and the clues and the little bits of information that they give and how this person is really just good at forming puzzles based on pattern chunking.
00:38:39.000 Exactly.
00:38:39.000 They just know how to...
00:38:41.000 They've done this so many times.
00:38:42.000 They know how to get it.
00:38:44.000 But this guy, even though he told me what he was doing, we had some people in the audience.
00:38:49.000 We had a small audience and we had him perform...
00:38:52.000 These tasks on these folks, have them come up, and he would ask them questions.
00:38:56.000 It was amazing.
00:38:57.000 I mean, he's just really, really fucking good at it.
00:38:58.000 So despite the fact that you knew all the tricks, it was easy to sort of succumb to the illusion.
00:39:02.000 Here's the thing, though.
00:39:03.000 I don't know the tricks.
00:39:04.000 I just know they are tricks.
00:39:06.000 Oh, okay.
00:39:06.000 I see.
00:39:06.000 He wouldn't tell us what the tricks were, but he said, like, I'm telling you, I am not a psychic by any stretch of the imagination.
00:39:13.000 And he did a bunch of other cool stuff, like he bent spoons and stuff like that with his mind.
00:39:17.000 Right.
00:39:18.000 It's bullshit.
00:39:18.000 He's like, it's all bullshit.
00:39:19.000 I'm using trickery.
00:39:21.000 He goes, but I won't tell you how I do it, but I'm not magic.
00:39:24.000 Which would be really rude if he actually was magic.
00:39:27.000 And he's just like, his shtick is calling out all these other people who are also actually magic.
00:39:33.000 Imagine that?
00:39:34.000 It was like a sellout for all the real magic people.
00:39:36.000 Right.
00:39:37.000 My sister was in high school.
00:39:39.000 She went to one of her friends, hired a psychic, and they all sat around, and the psychic would slowly but surely read them.
00:39:47.000 I was always very skeptical of stuff like that, from the time I was little, because I knew my grandmother was fucking crazy, and she always claimed to be psychic.
00:39:55.000 But listen to my sister come back, she would tell me all this stuff.
00:39:59.000 She knew all about this, and she knew all about that, and she knew about the time I did that.
00:40:03.000 I'm like, didn't you know about all that stuff?
00:40:06.000 She's not telling you anything you don't already know.
00:40:08.000 She's telling you stuff you already know.
00:40:10.000 Yeah, I'm telling you, it was amazing, though.
00:40:12.000 I was like, how is it amazing that she tells you shit that you already know?
00:40:16.000 Like, that's not amazing.
00:40:18.000 There's a study.
00:40:19.000 I can't remember the exact reference.
00:40:20.000 You could take the astrological predictions, you know, the 12, and you give it to people randomly.
00:40:27.000 And anyone that I give you, you'd be able to argue that it perfectly fits you.
00:40:32.000 Right?
00:40:33.000 Of course.
00:40:34.000 Precisely because it is so vague that you could infuse your life into any one of these sort of vague descriptors.
00:40:40.000 Yeah, they're ultra vague.
00:40:42.000 But those are stupid.
00:40:43.000 Like those, today will be an amazing day for business.
00:40:46.000 Like, what the fuck?
00:40:48.000 You know, you want to know specifics, right?
00:40:50.000 But I had a friend who ran into someone in Venice Beach.
00:40:54.000 And the guy was like one of those Save the Rainforest type dudes.
00:40:57.000 He had like some little stand set up.
00:40:59.000 And he said, if I guess your birthday, will you listen to me?
00:41:03.000 And my friend was like, go ahead.
00:41:04.000 And he guessed his birthday on the day.
00:41:07.000 And then he goes, how the fuck did you do that?
00:41:10.000 He goes, will you listen to my story now about the rainforest?
00:41:13.000 And he goes, do that to my friend.
00:41:14.000 He brought his friend over.
00:41:15.000 And he guessed his friend's birthday too.
00:41:18.000 Yeah.
00:41:18.000 I don't know, man.
00:41:21.000 That's what I'm saying.
00:41:22.000 I'm reserving judgment on that story.
00:41:24.000 Me too.
00:41:25.000 No, it's a true story.
00:41:26.000 My friend definitely didn't lie.
00:41:27.000 Because he's baffled by it.
00:41:29.000 Here's where I told Penn Jillette, obviously.
00:41:32.000 He's a magician, rather, and a good friend of mine.
00:41:35.000 And so I said, how does this guy do that?
00:41:36.000 He goes, there's techniques you can do that.
00:41:38.000 How the fuck are you doing it, man?
00:41:39.000 Guy shows up and he says to you...
00:41:43.000 You know, I can guess your birthday.
00:41:46.000 He doesn't know you.
00:41:47.000 You don't know him.
00:41:48.000 How the fuck is that possible?
00:41:50.000 He told me there's techniques.
00:41:51.000 I'm like, what?
00:41:52.000 What the fuck, man?
00:41:54.000 There's 365 days in a year.
00:41:56.000 How is a guy going to guess that?
00:41:57.000 I'm stumped.
00:41:59.000 And it's not even one in 365, right?
00:42:01.000 The odds of you nailing it is probably higher than one in 365, right?
00:42:05.000 Isn't that how math works?
00:42:06.000 There are interesting probabilities where, for example, if you were to say, how likely are two people in a room to have the same birthday?
00:42:16.000 That number, and I don't remember how to do it.
00:42:18.000 I've seen that.
00:42:19.000 A lot higher than you think.
00:42:20.000 It's a lot higher than you think.
00:42:21.000 Exactly right.
00:42:22.000 A lot higher than you think.
00:42:23.000 And I remember when I took Probability and Stats as a math undergrad, that's one of the classic examples that you study precisely because it is so counterintuitive.
00:42:33.000 Yeah, there was a show where someone did that and they went into...
00:42:37.000 It was like one of these con men dudes went into...
00:42:41.000 He bet people and he went into a restaurant and he had the day.
00:42:47.000 To find two people.
00:42:49.000 He had a certain amount of time to find two people that shared the same birthday that worked there.
00:42:53.000 Or that were customers there.
00:42:56.000 And he nailed it in like an hour.
00:42:58.000 Yeah.
00:42:59.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:43:00.000 Cool.
00:43:01.000 Just a bunch of people coming in.
00:43:02.000 You get like a May 12th or whatever the fuck it would be.
00:43:05.000 Right.
00:43:05.000 Yeah, but the idea that someone could just point at you, gadfather, I believe...
00:43:10.000 Your Bostonian accent came out there, huh?
00:43:12.000 Gad.
00:43:13.000 Gadfather.
00:43:15.000 Father.
00:43:17.000 You know, I don't know how anybody does that, but according to Penn Jillette, I gotta listen to him, though, because he's a fucking magician, and those guys are all tricksters.
00:43:25.000 They know how to do shit.
00:43:26.000 Like, One of the cool things about Penn and Teller, if you ever go to watch them, is that they'll tell you it's bullshit while they're doing it.
00:43:32.000 Right.
00:43:32.000 And you have no idea what the fuck they just did, how they did it.
00:43:35.000 Incredible.
00:43:35.000 Yeah.
00:43:36.000 That's all really sneaky stuff.
00:43:39.000 It's just managing illusions, basically, right?
00:43:41.000 I mean, that's what they're doing.
00:43:42.000 Yeah, and that's what was really cool about the Banachek character was that he was like really adamant about that stuff and very angry about people steal money from folks by claiming to be mediums and talking to their relatives.
00:43:54.000 And he's like, I just think that anyone who would try to give someone hope that perhaps their dead relative is talking from the grave and telling them important things they need to know, but meanwhile they're just making it up.
00:44:06.000 It's just a foul, disgusting human being.
00:44:10.000 I'm with you.
00:44:10.000 My grandmother would have bought it.
00:44:12.000 Hook, line, and sinker.
00:44:14.000 She believed it, man.
00:44:16.000 We had a dude die in my grandmother's house.
00:44:19.000 There was a guy who, during, I think it was like the 50s or the 60s, they were pretty poor, and there was this guy in the neighborhood who needed a place to live, and he would pay them to rent a room in their house.
00:44:35.000 It was pretty common back in those days.
00:44:37.000 And, you know, sometimes you'd eat dinner with them and what have you.
00:44:40.000 And he died in his room one day.
00:44:42.000 And they believed that this guy was talking to them.
00:44:46.000 They believed this guy was in the house and that she would go up into the attic sometimes and he would be up there and she would see him and talk to him.
00:44:53.000 That would freak me the fuck out, man.
00:44:55.000 It's very creepy.
00:44:56.000 Did you ever hear, I'm not sure if I'm going to get her name right, I think it's Emily Rosa, does that name?
00:45:01.000 No.
00:45:02.000 Youngest woman or girl to ever publish, it's going to relate to some of this Hocus Pocus stuff that we're talking about.
00:45:08.000 Youngest girl to ever publish a paper in JAMA, Journal of the American Medical Association, a very prestigious journal.
00:45:16.000 I think she was maybe 9 or 10 or 11. I discussed this in one of my books.
00:45:21.000 And basically as a grade 4 or 5 science project, she wanted to explore touch therapy.
00:45:29.000 Are you familiar with what that is?
00:45:31.000 So touch therapy is one of those quackery things.
00:45:34.000 But I'm triggered right now by you saying touch.
00:45:36.000 Right, right.
00:45:37.000 You just triggered me.
00:45:38.000 Right, right.
00:45:39.000 So basically...
00:45:42.000 The touch healer has some sort of energy in his or her hands that they can sort of levitate around your pain area.
00:45:50.000 Like Reiki?
00:45:53.000 Yeah, right.
00:45:54.000 And so she wanted to test whether those claims were true.
00:45:57.000 So she set up an extraordinarily simple experiment to test their abilities.
00:46:04.000 And so what basically she did is she would put out her hand And then they had to determine whether it's her right hand.
00:46:12.000 In other words, there's a barrier where they can't see which of her hands is out.
00:46:20.000 And if they have the ability of touch, they should be able to predict whether on the right or left is where her hand is.
00:46:26.000 And of course, they ended up doing worse than random.
00:46:29.000 In other words, less than 50, I mean, you have one in two chance of just guessing randomly whether it's the right or left, right?
00:46:35.000 And she demonstrated that these touch healers, who supposedly are able to cure cancer by levitating their hand over areas, are not even able to predict whether the hand that's out is on the right or left.
00:46:49.000 I mean, so imagine what an elegant experiment that is and it was published in that journal.
00:46:53.000 Now, what do you think those touch healers came back with as a rebuttal?
00:46:58.000 Can you think of anything?
00:47:00.000 Fuck you!
00:47:01.000 Other than that, they basically said that when you set up these types of experiments in a laboratory, That ends up, wait for it, affecting the energy fields.
00:47:14.000 And therefore, by testing our abilities, you are ultimately removing our abilities.
00:47:23.000 Therefore, it's an unfalsifiable position.
00:47:26.000 Hence, it's not science.
00:47:28.000 I have heard that expression.
00:47:31.000 I've heard that thought when people were talking about people who don't believe in psychics.
00:47:37.000 Right.
00:47:37.000 And that if you talk to a psychic but you don't believe in them, your negative energy interferes with their gift.
00:47:44.000 Exactly right.
00:47:45.000 So how could you ever test it, right?
00:47:47.000 That's why all of these sort of quackery movements are part of the sort of non-science epistemology, right?
00:47:56.000 Destiny, right?
00:47:57.000 The idea of destiny.
00:47:58.000 If I walk out of my house now and I get hit by a car, that was my destiny.
00:48:04.000 If I walk out of my house and I don't get hit by a truck, that was my destiny.
00:48:08.000 So what state of the world would have to happen for me to be able to test the destiny or non-destiny?
00:48:15.000 I can't.
00:48:15.000 Anything that happens is my destiny.
00:48:17.000 So it's unfalsifiable.
00:48:19.000 You know, I have a little piece of Hocus Pocus that I don't necessarily believe, but I entertain it from time to time, and that is synchronicity.
00:48:31.000 Okay.
00:48:32.000 Like, when you're discussing an object, then something will come up, whether it's on television or the news, that just, like, perfectly fits into what you're talking about.
00:48:40.000 And you're like, well, how goddamn convenient is this?
00:48:43.000 Right.
00:48:43.000 Like, I was having a text conversation with a friend of mine this morning, and he lives on the East Coast, and I live on the West Coast.
00:48:52.000 We're going back and forth, and he's having health issues, and he's going to talk to a doctor about probiotics.
00:48:59.000 And while we're having this conversation, I go downstairs, and I'm about to work out, and I turn on the television, and Good Morning America is having an expert discuss probiotics and how gut health can affect all sorts of various things,
00:49:16.000 including your mood, all sorts of various illnesses, and, like, literally at the same moment I'm having this text conversation with my friend, it's on, so I take a photo of the television, And I said, I send it to him.
00:49:29.000 I'm like, how crazy is this?
00:49:30.000 Like, we're talking about this and bam, it's on TV like that.
00:49:33.000 Can I demystify that story?
00:49:34.000 Why would you want to fuck it up for me, man?
00:49:38.000 With dual apologies.
00:49:39.000 This is actually called the cell A bias.
00:49:41.000 So for example, if you say, you know, every time I get in the shower, the phone rings.
00:49:47.000 Mmm.
00:49:47.000 Right?
00:49:48.000 Right.
00:49:48.000 Happens to me.
00:49:49.000 Right?
00:49:50.000 Now, what are the events that you're not coding in your brain?
00:49:54.000 Oh, the other times the phone rang?
00:49:55.000 No, well, so the phone can ring or cannot ring, and you can get into the shower or not get into the shower.
00:50:00.000 So it's a two-by-two matrix.
00:50:02.000 Your brain is only coding the instances, the cell A bias, one of the biases, where the two events happen.
00:50:08.000 The phone rings and I get in the shower.
00:50:10.000 The three other events, your brain never codes because they're non-events.
00:50:15.000 Therefore, you end up overestimating the likelihood of that event.
00:50:20.000 My God, every time the phone rings, I'm in the shower.
00:50:22.000 So this is what's happening with that probiotic story, right?
00:50:25.000 There's a million other times that you spoke to him about something else.
00:50:28.000 And then you turned on the TV, but there wasn't, to use your term, synchronicity.
00:50:32.000 But that one time where it happened, you quote it as something magical, mystical.
00:50:38.000 No?
00:50:38.000 You don't seem very convinced.
00:50:40.000 I'm not buying your fucking bullshit at all, mister.
00:50:44.000 So you're sticking with your magical thinking.
00:50:47.000 Yes!
00:50:47.000 Listen, the universe is all working together to sort this out, man.
00:50:52.000 That science stuff is overrated, I hear you.
00:50:54.000 A lot of it's bullshit, bro.
00:50:56.000 That's what I hear.
00:50:56.000 A lot of it is guesswork.
00:50:58.000 They don't know what they're doing.
00:51:00.000 I just think that it was a beautiful coincidence.
00:51:03.000 Yes.
00:51:03.000 That's how I look at it.
00:51:04.000 Yes.
00:51:04.000 And there's a series of these beautiful coincidences that happen all the time when you're tuned in to the vibe of the universe, man.
00:51:12.000 Wow.
00:51:17.000 I need to recover from that spirituality.
00:51:19.000 A lot of people believe that, right?
00:51:21.000 That's a big one, isn't it?
00:51:22.000 Yeah.
00:51:23.000 The vibe of the universe.
00:51:24.000 Moving away from spirituality, do you want to talk about some real science or do you want to keep doing the...
00:51:29.000 No, absolutely, yeah.
00:51:31.000 I don't really believe...
00:51:32.000 I think it's fun for people listening.
00:51:35.000 Serious?
00:51:35.000 No.
00:51:36.000 We're joking around, but it is weird when stuff like that happens.
00:51:41.000 And you do wonder.
00:51:42.000 Are you familiar, I'm sure you are, with simulation theory?
00:51:45.000 Tell me a bit about it to see what you mean.
00:51:47.000 Simulation theory is the idea, and this is not just being banded about by comedians, but by actual physicists who contemplate the...
00:51:55.000 When you extrapolate the nature of technology and where we're at now and what's possible today with Oculus Rift and all these...
00:52:02.000 Virtual reality programs they're developing that are extraordinarily effective.
00:52:07.000 I mean, I haven't seen the newest version of Oculus Rift, but apparently it's in 4K. These are what, immersive games?
00:52:14.000 No, it's not games.
00:52:16.000 Oculus Rift, they're going to apply it to games, but with Oculus Rift, it's like a ski goggle thing that you put on that is a virtual reality program that runs while this is happening.
00:52:28.000 And a lot of...
00:52:30.000 What they're doing when they're running these is they're recording these incredible scenarios where apparently they put cameras all over a person's body and they have them go through these rooms and then they take all of the data from all of that and then put it into this program so that when you're wearing these goggles you can look around up and down and there is data.
00:52:53.000 That's what it looks like.
00:52:55.000 There's data for every single aspect of the room every single area of the rooms as you look left and right all that's been covered and it's all computing so as computational power and Video cards and all these different things that can compute the visual images as they improve and get better and better It's gotten to the point now where it's 4k 4k is what?
00:53:18.000 This television right here is, which is the latest, greatest version of HD. It's very high resolution, beautiful images.
00:53:25.000 And my friend Duncan put it on, tried it out at one of these developer conferences and called me just screaming and raving.
00:53:33.000 He's like, this is bigger than the internet.
00:53:35.000 This is bigger than the wheel.
00:53:36.000 This is the biggest thing.
00:53:37.000 He's like, this is going to fucking change everything.
00:53:41.000 He walked into a room in this virtual reality demonstration and there was a man playing the piano.
00:53:46.000 Pianto?
00:53:47.000 What is that?
00:53:48.000 Man playing the piano.
00:53:50.000 He said the piano sounded more realistic.
00:53:54.000 As he got closer to it, it got louder.
00:53:57.000 He could see the man playing it.
00:53:59.000 He would step to the side and see the man playing it.
00:54:01.000 Look over the top of the piano, see the man playing it.
00:54:04.000 Go underneath the piano and see the man playing it.
00:54:06.000 It's like this is fucking crazy and it really looks like there's a guy in front of you playing the piano, but nothing's happening.
00:54:13.000 The idea being that if that technology exists today in 2015, there is going to come a time, whether that time is a hundred years from now or a thousand years from now, where there will be an artificial reality that is indecipherable from the reality that we live in right now,
00:54:30.000 from this touch, feel, hear, see reality that we just all accept as real.
00:54:39.000 That there is going to be something that is artificially created, but is indistinguishable from what we're experiencing.
00:54:47.000 And if that is true, how do we not know that we haven't already been in it?
00:54:52.000 How do we not know?
00:54:53.000 Because we're not talking about voodoo.
00:54:56.000 We're talking about technology.
00:54:57.000 And we're talking about...
00:54:58.000 Pretty trackable stuff.
00:55:00.000 Like, if you follow Moore's Law, if you follow any of the technological laws of extrapolation from the point that we're at now to the point that they're projecting just within 5, 10, 15, 20 years, they're talking about incredible stuff.
00:55:14.000 Have you seen Magic Leap?
00:55:15.000 Have you seen that?
00:55:15.000 No.
00:55:16.000 I was going to say, I haven't seen The Matrix either, but it sounds like that's sort of the scene, isn't it?
00:55:20.000 Well, it's similar along those lines.
00:55:21.000 But I'm not familiar with that scene.
00:55:22.000 Well, The Matrix seemed like a total horseshit just when it came out.
00:55:25.000 It seemed like, wow, this is a cool science fiction movie about some shit that's not real and never could be real.
00:55:31.000 But now, The Matrix looks closer and closer to reality with every passing day.
00:55:37.000 With every passing year, it looks like, wow, it's inevitable.
00:55:41.000 Whether it's 100 years from now or whatever...
00:55:43.000 They're going to be able to give you an experience that is indistinguishable from this experience that we think is real.
00:55:50.000 You know, my only sort of jumping point from what you're talking about, when I was a student in computer science and math, I took artificial intelligence.
00:55:58.000 But now this is going back to, not to date myself, you know.
00:56:02.000 The 20s?
00:56:03.000 Thank you.
00:56:04.000 See what I did there?
00:56:06.000 1985, about, 1984, 85. And at the time, one of the things that we had learned in this course was, so you know about how now there are computers that can easily match the grandmasters in chess?
00:56:20.000 Yes.
00:56:20.000 So at the time when I was in school, some of the early versions of those computers were just about at the level of the grandmasters.
00:56:31.000 And so one of the assignments that we had to do in that course was to develop an algorithm.
00:56:37.000 So if you look at the chess decision tree, the number of nodes that it has is something like, I can't Pull it out.
00:56:45.000 Something like 10 to the 100 possibilities.
00:56:48.000 And so it would take you more than the age of the universe if you wanted to exhaustively search through every possible option.
00:56:56.000 So rather, what you have to do is use some sort of search algorithm to prune out, to weed out huge parts of the decision tree.
00:57:04.000 You see what I'm saying?
00:57:05.000 So that way, this huge decision tree, you only go through the parts that seem promising.
00:57:12.000 And so we didn't do it for chess.
00:57:13.000 We did it for another game.
00:57:14.000 But at that time, I already had found it almost mystical, the type of stuff that we were learning in AI to try to sort of model this artificial intelligence that could mimic the capacities of a human grandmaster player.
00:57:27.000 And what you're talking about, of course, is many generations ahead of that.
00:57:30.000 So incredible stuff.
00:57:31.000 Many generations ahead of that, and again, you're talking about 30 years.
00:57:36.000 It's not that long.
00:57:37.000 It's not that long, yeah.
00:57:37.000 It's really not.
00:57:38.000 In terms of culture, it's like, if you went by, if 30 years went by in the 1200s, nothing would change.
00:57:45.000 Right, true.
00:57:46.000 Nothing.
00:57:47.000 And 30 years today is almost an eternity when it comes to technology.
00:57:51.000 Well, actually, yesterday we were sitting at the beach in Laguna, my wife and I and the kids.
00:57:55.000 And I asked her, and I wonder if you have an answer to this.
00:57:58.000 I'm sure we could pull it out.
00:57:59.000 How many people do they still use non-smartphones?
00:58:03.000 Ari Shafir.
00:58:06.000 So probably, you think, what, like 5%?
00:58:09.000 If I had a guess, I'd bet it's less than that.
00:58:11.000 Yeah, incredible.
00:58:12.000 I bet it's about 10. Or I'd bet it's rather...
00:58:17.000 1%.
00:58:18.000 No, I was going to say 3. But I would say, I would bet that...
00:58:24.000 Out of all the people that use cell phones on a regular basis, yeah, I would say it's less than 5%.
00:58:30.000 I would say it's probably around 3 or something like that.
00:58:33.000 Less than 10 for sure.
00:58:34.000 What do you think, Jamie?
00:58:35.000 What would you guess?
00:58:37.000 3?
00:58:38.000 Like 3%?
00:58:39.000 If you see people that are walking around...
00:58:42.000 I'm trying to think.
00:58:45.000 I can't remember the last time that I saw somebody sort of flipping a phone.
00:58:50.000 I think my mom has one still.
00:58:52.000 Right.
00:58:53.000 She texts me.
00:58:54.000 It's pretty obvious.
00:58:54.000 Still, like, letter U. She uses U. If you have an iPhone and you use U instead of Y-O-U, you're a lazy bitch.
00:59:03.000 Just write Y-O-U, right?
00:59:05.000 Jesus Christ.
00:59:05.000 I'm not going to agree with that sentiment to your mother.
00:59:08.000 No, not my mom.
00:59:09.000 Oh, okay.
00:59:10.000 My mom has a smartphone.
00:59:11.000 She doesn't have a smartphone.
00:59:11.000 Right.
00:59:12.000 At least I don't think she does.
00:59:15.000 What is the percentage, Jamie?
00:59:17.000 It's a percentage of people that don't use smartphones.
00:59:19.000 All I can find is it's just two-thirds of American adults have a smartphone, so I guess it'd be that one-third don't.
00:59:25.000 I don't know if that's a fit.
00:59:27.000 Yeah, what does that mean, though?
00:59:29.000 Do they have any kind of phone?
00:59:31.000 That's right.
00:59:31.000 A lot of them may not have any phones.
00:59:33.000 They're fucking animals.
00:59:34.000 If you're living in 2015, you don't have a cell phone, you're some fucking barbarian creature.
00:59:40.000 That doesn't make any sense.
00:59:41.000 I've got a good jumping point because we're talking about innovations.
00:59:44.000 You ready for this?
00:59:46.000 Birth order and innovations.
00:59:48.000 Birth order?
00:59:49.000 Yeah, birth order.
00:59:50.000 As far as like where you were born?
00:59:52.000 Right, so you ready for this?
00:59:53.000 Yes.
00:59:53.000 So first I'll give you the background to that story, and then I'll tell you about some research that we did in a consumer context.
00:59:59.000 So there's this gentleman by the name of Frank Soloway.
01:00:01.000 He's a historian of science and a huge Darwin supporter.
01:00:04.000 He wrote a book in 1996, highly recommended, called Born to Rebel, where he looked at the 28 most radical scientific innovations in the history of human thought.
01:00:16.000 The reason for 28, there's nothing magical about number 28. There was some criterion by which something got into that list or not.
01:00:22.000 So he looked at the 28 most radical scientific theory of evolution would be one, right?
01:00:28.000 Something that really changed our understanding of the world.
01:00:31.000 And then he looked at the birth order, through historical records, of either the people who espoused the theory, Or those who were the staunchest detractors, opponents to the theory.
01:00:44.000 And what he found is that the later borns were much more likely to be the ones to espouse the radical scientific innovations.
01:00:53.000 Wow.
01:00:54.000 And I'll explain in a second why.
01:00:56.000 So he argued basically that when a child is born...
01:01:00.000 The first sort of adaptive problem that he has to solve is how to maximize parental investment to himself or herself.
01:01:10.000 And the way you do that is by occupying a unique niche in the eyes of your parents.
01:01:15.000 So if you're first born, there are no other niches that have been occupied.
01:01:20.000 So for example, a niche would be, I want to be a good boy.
01:01:22.000 I want to be a rebel would be another niche, right?
01:01:25.000 He called this Darwinian partitioning niche hypothesis, right?
01:01:29.000 So it's a positioning.
01:01:31.000 Proposition, right?
01:01:32.000 How do I position myself to be maximally different from all the other children?
01:01:36.000 So the first born has nobody, all the niches are available.
01:01:41.000 As you go down the sip ship, there are fewer and fewer niches that are available.
01:01:46.000 This forces later borns to be more out-of-the-box thinkers, to be more malleable, to be less rigid, to be less conforming.
01:01:54.000 And the data was actually quite astonishing.
01:01:57.000 So for 23 out of the 28 radical scientific innovations, that's exactly what he found.
01:02:01.000 Incidentally, do you want to guess what the godfather's birth order is?
01:02:05.000 Last!
01:02:06.000 Thank you.
01:02:08.000 Fourth of four.
01:02:09.000 That's why I always said, expect great things from the Godfather.
01:02:12.000 It's meant to be.
01:02:13.000 But anyways, so we took this idea and we applied it to, since we were talking about adoption of phones and smartphones, we applied it to the context of, are you a product innovator?
01:02:26.000 Do you adopt something early or late and so on?
01:02:29.000 And we exactly replicated Soloway's findings.
01:02:32.000 First borns were much more conforming.
01:02:34.000 Later borns were much more innovative and That actually makes a ton of sense.
01:02:44.000 Another thing I think could possibly be a consideration is that when you're younger, you get fucked with by your older brothers and sisters.
01:02:54.000 Because they can.
01:02:55.000 Because they're tired of taking shit from the parents.
01:02:57.000 And you're forced to think outside the box because you gotta work around these fuckers.
01:03:01.000 That's right.
01:03:02.000 Constantly trying to mess your game up at every point in turn.
01:03:06.000 They cheat.
01:03:06.000 They make up rules.
01:03:08.000 They tell you what mom said when mom didn't really say anything yet.
01:03:12.000 You get in trouble.
01:03:12.000 Are you last born?
01:03:13.000 No.
01:03:13.000 First.
01:03:14.000 Oh, okay.
01:03:14.000 I know.
01:03:15.000 I'm devious.
01:03:15.000 I don't do that.
01:03:16.000 You're not supposed to have all these tattoos as a firstborn.
01:03:18.000 Really?
01:03:19.000 No, well.
01:03:20.000 Is that true?
01:03:20.000 Only in the conforming sense.
01:03:22.000 Hmm.
01:03:23.000 On the other hand, you could argue that maybe within your social milieu, this is conforming, right?
01:03:27.000 Could be, yeah.
01:03:29.000 Or you just like tattoos.
01:03:30.000 Or you just like tattoos.
01:03:31.000 And you're not scared of pain.
01:03:32.000 Right.
01:03:33.000 I think that's more likely.
01:03:36.000 Yeah, I think it's fascinating when you look at what causes someone to be innovative and what causes someone...
01:03:43.000 I mean, it's one of the things that I've thought of as a parent, and many of my friends have the same issue, it's...
01:03:50.000 All my interesting friends came from fucked up childhoods.
01:03:54.000 All my interesting friends had parents that were a mess, and childhood was chaos, and it forced them to develop a unique character.
01:04:03.000 All of them.
01:04:04.000 And I'm trying my best to make my children's lives as easy and comfortable as possible, but in doing so, am I hampering them?
01:04:13.000 Am I hampering their development in some sort of a way?
01:04:15.000 Maybe like a random smack on the head once in a while, just to keep it...
01:04:20.000 Push them, get out of my way!
01:04:22.000 I think that there's other ways, and this is my theory, there's other ways to encourage innovation or creativity or to pursue your passion and dreams.
01:04:32.000 And one of the things I'm also quite shocked at with having children, It is how absolutely unique they are right out of the box.
01:04:43.000 Yes.
01:04:43.000 In a happy environment with no stress, no financial issues, no, you know, there's no arguing and screaming from the parents.
01:04:52.000 Like, what is it about kids that, right out of the vagina, are just a totally different person, like from day one?
01:04:59.000 You mean from each other?
01:05:00.000 Yes.
01:05:01.000 Yes.
01:05:01.000 So different.
01:05:02.000 Well, so different.
01:05:03.000 That speaks to the fact that there are innate elements to our personhood, right?
01:05:08.000 Or astrology.
01:05:11.000 Or astrology, yes.
01:05:12.000 Maybe that's real.
01:05:13.000 Maybe you need to just come over to the mystical side a little bit, Mr. Scientist.
01:05:17.000 I think I need to do that.
01:05:19.000 Have you ever talked to someone who can read those charts?
01:05:22.000 My paternal aunt.
01:05:24.000 Oh, really?
01:05:24.000 You already forgot what we spoke about.
01:05:26.000 No, but can she read those charts?
01:05:28.000 No, she could read the coffee stains.
01:05:32.000 No, but that's nonsense.
01:05:33.000 I'm talking about astrological charts.
01:05:35.000 Okay, the real stuff.
01:05:36.000 Yeah, you know those people that can read those things where Mercury's in retrograde and they know where Pluto is, the time your dad came and your mom?
01:05:44.000 They can figure that stuff out.
01:05:46.000 I don't hang around in those circles, so unfortunately not, no.
01:05:50.000 Apparently there are people that are absolutely consumed by the uber complex aspects of astrology.
01:05:58.000 Yes.
01:05:58.000 Like real astrology.
01:05:59.000 Not like the stuff that you get in your Sunday paper.
01:06:02.000 Oh, I'm a Leo, so today's a good day to take a shit.
01:06:05.000 Whatever the hell it would be, right?
01:06:07.000 All those really random...
01:06:08.000 But apparently, there's just volumes of books written on constellations and the alignment of these constellations and where the stars are at any particular time, and it's dependent upon what time of year, what time of day.
01:06:24.000 Do you buy into that in any way, shape, or form?
01:06:28.000 Because there are a lot of people that believe that Leos have a very distinct personality and have distinct personality traits that are trackable.
01:06:36.000 I don't care about Leos.
01:06:37.000 I'm Libra.
01:06:37.000 Tell me about Libra.
01:06:38.000 Okay, I don't know about Libras.
01:06:39.000 I'm a Leo.
01:06:40.000 I don't even understand.
01:06:41.000 Libras are extremely good-looking, very charismatic, very brilliant.
01:06:44.000 What happened to you?
01:06:45.000 I know.
01:06:46.000 Weird.
01:06:47.000 I'm the outlier.
01:06:48.000 Outlier.
01:06:49.000 I'm the black sheep.
01:06:50.000 Wait a minute.
01:06:51.000 Black sheep.
01:06:52.000 That's triggering.
01:06:53.000 That's racist.
01:06:54.000 You triggered me.
01:06:54.000 Yes.
01:06:54.000 Black sheep.
01:06:55.000 And you said trigger, which is even more of a trigger.
01:06:58.000 Right.
01:06:59.000 Oh, my God.
01:06:59.000 I'm so triggered.
01:07:00.000 I don't even know what to do.
01:07:01.000 Here was another one that I wanted to bring up with you about that trigger shit because it was something that you were helping about.
01:07:07.000 Yes, I sent you.
01:07:08.000 You sent me and I tweeted it.
01:07:09.000 I went wild with that one.
01:07:11.000 Oh my god, it was about- I was so angry.
01:07:13.000 The woman who was a professor- Laura Kipnis.
01:07:16.000 Yes, but explain the story because I'm searching for it.
01:07:19.000 So basically the idea is that there's all these movements about how horrifyingly violent campuses are in terms of sexual violence, which is of course not true.
01:07:29.000 And she had written an article where she was criticizing that position, sort of the lunacy, the hysteria involved with that narrative, right?
01:07:37.000 One out of every five women will be raped on campus, which is complete nonsense.
01:07:41.000 Is it nonsense?
01:07:42.000 It is.
01:07:43.000 What are the actual numbers?
01:07:44.000 So I haven't studied it carefully, but...
01:07:46.000 I thought that was true.
01:07:47.000 Well, because it depends how you defined, right?
01:07:50.000 I think if you look at them...
01:07:52.000 Exactly.
01:07:54.000 The male gaze is a form of visual rape.
01:07:57.000 That's why, by the way, I've written an article about this.
01:08:01.000 You should check it out.
01:08:03.000 The bikini is patriarchal oppression, while the burqa is liberating.
01:08:09.000 This is Western feminists who argue this, and they argue this because, exactly using the argument of the male gaze, since the burqa liberates women from the male gaze, and the bikini draws the male gaze, the bikini's bad, the burqa's good.
01:08:25.000 What is the grape smuggler?
01:08:26.000 What's the grape smuggler?
01:08:27.000 That's where men wear those little tiny little Jean-Claude Van Damme underwear things that people wear like in France and stuff.
01:08:34.000 You know, those little bikini boots for men.
01:08:36.000 That reference went over my head.
01:08:37.000 Oh, you mean like the little Speedos?
01:08:39.000 Yeah, Speedos.
01:08:40.000 But, well, women don't respond to the visual stimuli the way that men do to women, right?
01:08:45.000 Oh, you say that.
01:08:46.000 I mean, evolutionary psychology, come on.
01:08:48.000 Listen, when girls see Channing Tatum doing that magic mic shit, dancing around on stage, you tell me they're not responding to visual stimuli?
01:08:56.000 Get the fuck out of here.
01:08:57.000 That's a bunch of convenient bullshit by guys who have shitty bodies, who don't want to think that their girlfriend's drooling at Channing Tatum.
01:09:04.000 With his little fucking Daisy Dukes on or whatever, how he's wearing his construction boots.
01:09:08.000 So you actually think that men and women are indistinguishable in the manner by which they respond to...
01:09:14.000 Didn't say that.
01:09:15.000 I didn't say that, but they absolutely respond visually.
01:09:19.000 They respond, of course.
01:09:20.000 That's why men want to have six-packs.
01:09:22.000 Why?
01:09:22.000 Yes.
01:09:22.000 Because girls get excited by it.
01:09:24.000 It's very simple.
01:09:25.000 I just don't think it's the same sort of...
01:09:26.000 I think there's pursuit stimuli, where a guy will see a girl who's got a hot body in a bikini and go, Oh, Jesus.
01:09:34.000 And they literally go running up to them to try to talk to them.
01:09:37.000 Yes.
01:09:37.000 I don't think that same thing happens with females to males as much.
01:09:42.000 But I think that's also...
01:09:45.000 Just gender roles, has to deal with testosterone, has to deal with many, many things, culture, normal behavior as far as male, female behavior.
01:09:55.000 I think both sexes, when they look at each other, are looking for important cues that are relevant to the mating market.
01:10:03.000 So you're absolutely right that women are looking.
01:10:05.000 For example, they like tight buttocks because that sends an important signal.
01:10:09.000 The guy's in shape.
01:10:10.000 The guy's in shape.
01:10:11.000 Good sperm.
01:10:12.000 The 0.9 waist to hip ratio on a man, sort of the male swimmer's build, is very attractive.
01:10:18.000 Wide shoulders, thin waist.
01:10:19.000 So I'm not suggesting that women don't respond to visual cues, but they certainly don't respond nearly as much as men.
01:10:26.000 I think they respond probably with an equal intensity, but not act in an equal intensity, and certainly not act in a threatening way.
01:10:37.000 And that's where the male gaze comes in.
01:10:39.000 So why aren't there a million male stripper shops targeting heterosexual women?
01:10:44.000 You should get into that market.
01:10:45.000 You make a lot of money.
01:10:46.000 There's a lot of male strip shows and in fact in Vegas those are the things that they advertise the airport when you go there the Thunder Down Under and all this jazz bunch of guys with their shirts off sweaty but women don't feel comfortable going into those environments the way men feel comfortable so they go in these Packs of wild,
01:11:05.000 estrogen-oozing creatures, and they scream and yell.
01:11:11.000 I used to have a bit about it, that it's a totally, that Ladies' Night Out, it's a totally different kind of experience.
01:11:16.000 When they go, they scream and cheer and yell, where guys sit there and don't say much of anything.
01:11:23.000 They just kind of stare.
01:11:25.000 But that speaks to the sex difference, right?
01:11:27.000 Exactly.
01:11:28.000 There's definitely a difference.
01:11:29.000 It's sisterhood of the ya-ya pants or whatever that is.
01:11:32.000 They're banding together, right?
01:11:33.000 But I just think that women don't have the correct outlet, which is why when a book like Fifty Shades of Grey comes out, they all go fucking bananas.
01:11:40.000 Like, finally, we've got a channel to funnel all of our sex urges through.
01:11:45.000 Right.
01:11:46.000 You see them, they're reading porn on planes.
01:11:49.000 You're passing by on planes, they're reading gag porn.
01:11:52.000 Well, by the way, if you want to understand male versus female sexuality...
01:11:56.000 I don't.
01:11:57.000 You do.
01:11:58.000 But please carry on.
01:11:58.000 If you want to understand male sexuality...
01:12:01.000 Then you do a content analysis of pornography.
01:12:03.000 If you want to understand female sexuality, you do a content analysis of romance novels.
01:12:09.000 So if you look at the archetype of the male hero in romance novels, irrespective of which culture the romance novel is written in, it could be Romania or Egypt or Newport Beach, He's always the same guy.
01:12:25.000 He's a tall guy.
01:12:26.000 He's got a six-pack.
01:12:28.000 He's a count, meaning a prey, right?
01:12:30.000 He's also a neurosurgeon.
01:12:31.000 He wrestles alligators on his six-pack.
01:12:34.000 He's reckless.
01:12:35.000 He's risky, but only to be tamed by the love of that one good woman, right?
01:12:39.000 So I've already told you about every single archetype that you've...
01:12:43.000 I mean, the same archetype in every romance novel.
01:12:46.000 The reason why the archetype is there is because it exactly caters to women's evolved fantasies.
01:12:52.000 Sometimes he's like half a chick.
01:12:54.000 Like he's got long hair and he has like very chick-like behavior.
01:12:59.000 He wears like flowing, very sheer shirts, which no guy in their right mind would ever wear.
01:13:05.000 And if you did wear in public, women would mock you.
01:13:08.000 Right.
01:13:08.000 Right?
01:13:08.000 If you had long flowing Fabio hair and you had like a blouse on and you went out to a nightclub, people go, what the fuck is wrong with that guy?
01:13:17.000 But in a romance novel, you're on the cover, baby.
01:13:19.000 Well, because you have to also send out some cues of sensitivity, right?
01:13:23.000 Is that what that is?
01:13:24.000 The blouse?
01:13:25.000 It's a bit artistic.
01:13:26.000 It's a bit sensitive.
01:13:27.000 I think it's just not a real person.
01:13:30.000 Just like the vampires.
01:13:31.000 There's a reason why women fell in love with those fucking stupid vampires.
01:13:35.000 Why is that?
01:13:37.000 Vampires that don't even burn up in the sun.
01:13:39.000 They sparkle.
01:13:40.000 What was all that about?
01:13:41.000 I don't know those narratives.
01:13:42.000 How dare you?
01:13:43.000 Twilight, goddammit.
01:13:45.000 I don't watch that stuff.
01:13:45.000 You knew.
01:13:46.000 I'm too busy watching Lionel Messi.
01:13:49.000 Right.
01:13:50.000 Well, those books sold fucking millions of copies.
01:13:54.000 The vampire ones?
01:13:54.000 Yes, millions and millions of copies.
01:13:56.000 And they were essentially a form of romance, porn, vampire bullshit for chicks.
01:14:03.000 And again, these men in these books, these vampires, they didn't exist.
01:14:08.000 Not only did they not exist, they didn't make sense.
01:14:11.000 Like the main one, that one that, you know, there's Kristen, whatever the hell her name was, and Ed, whatever the fuck his name is, Rob, whatever the fuck his name is.
01:14:18.000 I don't know any of those references, but carry on.
01:14:20.000 The guy was supposed to be like 90 years old or something like that.
01:14:25.000 He got like in the Spanish plague is when he died.
01:14:29.000 And that's when he became a vampire.
01:14:31.000 But he has to still go to high school because when he became a vampire he was like 17. So he has to show up and go to high school with all normal people.
01:14:38.000 But he goes to high school in the Pacific Northwest because it's never sunny out.
01:14:42.000 So he doesn't glitter.
01:14:43.000 It's one of the dumbest fucking books of all time.
01:14:46.000 Why did you watch that stuff?
01:14:47.000 Well, I didn't.
01:14:48.000 Oh, okay.
01:14:48.000 But you know a lot about it.
01:14:49.000 I know a lot about it.
01:14:50.000 I watched little moments of it before I panicked and shut it off.
01:14:54.000 Actually, I did watch one of them.
01:14:56.000 I think I watched the second one.
01:14:57.000 Anyway, point being, I watched the one where they became werewolves.
01:15:00.000 It was fucking so stupid.
01:15:01.000 It made me mad.
01:15:03.000 But, point being, like, this guy is 90 fucking years old and he's hanging around with a 17-year-old.
01:15:08.000 That guy's an asshole, right?
01:15:10.000 He's pretending to be 17. He falls in love with a 17-year-old and even has sex with her eventually.
01:15:14.000 Which is pedophilia.
01:15:16.000 Right.
01:15:16.000 Not just pedophilia, but like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
01:15:20.000 What do you have in common?
01:15:21.000 You've been around for 90 years and you've got something in common with this girl who's 17 years old.
01:15:26.000 It's fucking ridiculous.
01:15:28.000 More than 90 years, really.
01:15:29.000 Because in the 1920s or whatever the hell it was, We're assuming that he was, you know, 17 years old then.
01:15:35.000 So he's more than 100 years old.
01:15:37.000 It's the dumbest fucking book of all time.
01:15:39.000 But it was huge.
01:15:41.000 Women loved it.
01:15:42.000 And it didn't represent a real person.
01:15:44.000 It represented the exact opposite of a real person.
01:15:46.000 Like, what guys like actually exists.
01:15:50.000 Guys like sluts, okay?
01:15:52.000 And those are real.
01:15:53.000 And when I say sluts, it's with all due respect.
01:15:55.000 I'm not slut-shaming, which is, by the way, another trigger.
01:15:58.000 Don't slut-shame.
01:15:59.000 Because then you're mocking girls for their ability to choose their sexual partners, and that's part of the patriarchy.
01:16:05.000 Yes, yes.
01:16:05.000 It is, right?
01:16:07.000 Yes, yes.
01:16:09.000 I'm strongly against the patriarchy.
01:16:11.000 Are you going to get in trouble for this podcast in any way?
01:16:13.000 Not at all.
01:16:13.000 Last time you didn't?
01:16:14.000 No.
01:16:14.000 No one said anything?
01:16:15.000 I mean, some trolls.
01:16:17.000 Did they?
01:16:17.000 Usually it was the Jew, the Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew.
01:16:21.000 They got mad at you for being Jewish?
01:16:23.000 Jew, he's a Zionist shill, Jew.
01:16:26.000 That's usually the extent of the negative stuff.
01:16:29.000 Goddamn Zionist shills.
01:16:31.000 Let's go back to your friend, Laura Kipnis.
01:16:33.000 How do you say her name?
01:16:34.000 Kipnis.
01:16:35.000 Kipnis.
01:16:36.000 Laura Kipnis.
01:16:36.000 She's a professor at Northwestern University.
01:16:38.000 So she wrote this essay, A Chronicle of Higher Education.
01:16:42.000 Yes.
01:16:42.000 And in the article in The Atlantic, it brings it up.
01:16:44.000 Describing a new campus politics of sexual paranoia.
01:16:47.000 And she was then subject to a long investigation after students who were offended by the article.
01:16:53.000 Yes.
01:16:54.000 And by a tweet that she sent, filed a Chapter 9 complaint against her.
01:16:59.000 Now what does that mean?
01:17:00.000 I think it's that women should have equal access to education and so on and be in a safe...
01:17:06.000 So she was somehow suppressing that?
01:17:08.000 Well, because by her making light of the endemic sexual violence on campus, in quotes, she was condoning it.
01:17:19.000 And therefore, she was making all these women feel unsafe and unwelcome and threatened on campus.
01:17:26.000 And so two students...
01:17:41.000 I'm not a constitutional lawyer.
01:17:50.000 Rallying up the forces and you were kind enough to tweet it and just, you know, your tweet got me something like a hundred thousand views.
01:17:56.000 And then I communicated with her because I wanted to send her a signal that, you know, there are some of us that still have testicular fortitude that are willing to, I mean, in academia.
01:18:04.000 You shouldn't even say testicular fortitude.
01:18:06.000 What about your women, YN, counterparts, compatriots?
01:18:12.000 And so, you know, I just wanted to tell her that some of us were supporting her.
01:18:18.000 Yeah, I read it and I thought it was really disturbing.
01:18:21.000 I thought it was really disturbing because it seems so common.
01:18:25.000 That's the most disturbing aspect of it.
01:18:26.000 It's not some unusual occurrence where kids are freaking out about nothing and overreacting where you'd look at it like, what is this?
01:18:33.000 It's like, oh, this again.
01:18:36.000 And that's what bugs me the most about it.
01:18:37.000 It's this again.
01:18:38.000 It's the idea that looking at data and looking at the realities of the climate of free speech on these campuses and how it's suppressed and it's not free speech.
01:18:48.000 You are free to think as they do.
01:18:50.000 And if you don't think as they do, you are not free.
01:18:53.000 That's right.
01:18:55.000 This issue of how cowardly most academics have become, and I say this realizing that I'm going to piss off many of my colleagues, I'm astonished how academics who are in the business of engaging in public discourse are so tepid because they've been silenced into fear.
01:19:13.000 And I mean, I see it in many, many different ways, but I'll just share one example, which I think I shared in another show recently.
01:19:19.000 So I put up a clip on Facebook of an Iraqi astronomer who was arguing that in the Quran it says that the Earth is flat and it's clear that the Earth is flat.
01:19:32.000 So I shared that clip to demonstrate sort of the lunacy that religious dogma can have on an otherwise supposedly intelligent person.
01:19:41.000 I mean an Iraqi astronomer.
01:19:43.000 Now, what do you think the reaction was?
01:19:47.000 Islamophobia, Zionist, asshole.
01:19:50.000 He's allowed to have those thoughts.
01:19:52.000 He's part of a suppressed culture.
01:19:54.000 Right.
01:19:54.000 So she didn't have the courage to tackle me that way, but she wrote publicly, not privately.
01:20:00.000 This was an academic white woman from California who's writhen with guilt.
01:20:05.000 I hate her already.
01:20:07.000 She wrote to me saying, you know, don't you think that, you know, it's bad of you to be sharing this?
01:20:12.000 Don't you think it's bad that you're sort of stigmatizing them?
01:20:15.000 So step for a second and think about what this means, right?
01:20:17.000 This scientist colleague of mine was not offended that a fellow scientist would actually hold such a astonishingly false position, right?
01:20:27.000 He's a member of the Flat Earth Society.
01:20:29.000 Rather, she was offended that I would point to his lunacy.
01:20:33.000 So I think that small anecdote really captures the culture of fear that you see on campuses.
01:20:41.000 And in a sense, if I can sort of toot my own horn, I'm really a very rare breed, sort of the guy who walks around not caring, saying it as it is, because that's my personality.
01:20:52.000 I can't be anything else.
01:20:53.000 But you also are a very open-minded guy.
01:20:57.000 And so when it comes down to the core values that these people promote, whether it is lack of racial insensitivity or racial stereotyping, gender issues, whether it's sexism or homophobia,
01:21:14.000 you're on the liberal side of all that stuff.
01:21:17.000 Absolutely.
01:21:17.000 So you're essentially a liberal, right?
01:21:21.000 If I can say I'm a true liberal, not the liberals that exist today.
01:21:25.000 Because the liberals of today, as our common friend Sam Harris and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have said, have a huge blind spot when it comes to certain issues where they fall really on the wrong side of the issue.
01:21:37.000 So a true liberal is one who doesn't mince word, who doesn't fall prey to cultural and moral relativism, who doesn't say, well, who are we to judge the cutting off of clitorises of women?
01:21:48.000 That's their culture, right?
01:21:49.000 So that's a true liberal.
01:21:50.000 So I'm a true liberal.
01:21:52.000 They're not.
01:21:52.000 They're fake liberals.
01:21:53.000 Well, I think what they're doing is they're subscribing to the current trend of discourse.
01:22:00.000 Right.
01:22:00.000 And the current trend of discourse is anything Islamic, leave it alone.
01:22:04.000 Yes.
01:22:04.000 And I think a lot of that's being a pussy.
01:22:07.000 Yes.
01:22:07.000 I really do.
01:22:08.000 I think a lot of that is cowardice.
01:22:09.000 They're afraid of backlash.
01:22:10.000 They're afraid of the label Islamophobia.
01:22:13.000 It's a very strange label because there's no Christianophobia.
01:22:17.000 Yes.
01:22:17.000 And even anti-Semitic, you know...
01:22:21.000 There's a certain amount of anti-Semitic logic and thinking that is promoted in certain Islamic cultures that's ignored as well.
01:22:31.000 So you can get away with that in certain ways.
01:22:34.000 Like, did you see that video of the guy that was walking through Paris dressed in a very Jewish way?
01:22:39.000 Yes.
01:22:39.000 Whoa, was that fucking disturbing.
01:22:41.000 If you haven't seen it, it's just showing how openly...
01:22:49.000 In the most sickening way, openly anti-Jewish so many people are in Paris.
01:22:58.000 And by the way, I should make it clear, and of course now there will be the hate comments, it's not anti-Israel, right?
01:23:04.000 It's anti-Jewish.
01:23:05.000 Yes, it's anti-Jewish.
01:23:07.000 It's anti-Semitic, 100%.
01:23:08.000 I don't like the term Semitic because Semitic is like Semitic people.
01:23:12.000 It represents a lot of people that aren't Jewish.
01:23:16.000 It's anti-Jewish, right?
01:23:18.000 I mean, although the term is understood typically, anti-Semitic means it's synonymous, but your point is well taken.
01:23:24.000 Why is it anti-Semitic?
01:23:26.000 Because there's a lot of Semitic cultures that aren't Jewish.
01:23:28.000 Right.
01:23:29.000 I don't know the original historical context for why that term...
01:23:33.000 But when you want to appear to be smart, you say anti-Semitic.
01:23:35.000 You don't say anti-Jewish.
01:23:36.000 That's right.
01:23:37.000 It sounds a bit more...
01:23:38.000 More educated.
01:23:40.000 More educated.
01:23:40.000 Since I'm a confirmed dummy, I can go with anti-Jewish.
01:23:43.000 I think I'm doing the right thing.
01:23:45.000 You can't be a dummy and a good comic, which you are, because as I think we might have discussed before, or maybe we didn't, there is a correlation between being funny and being highly intelligent.
01:23:56.000 But you probably have, there's a type of intelligence.
01:23:58.000 Like, mathematically, I'm basically retarded.
01:24:01.000 I'm really bad.
01:24:02.000 But you probably have good social intelligence, right?
01:24:03.000 Because how else are you able to come up with those anecdotes, right?
01:24:07.000 Yeah.
01:24:08.000 You have acuity to see patterns in terms of social interactions.
01:24:11.000 Otherwise, what would be funny about the show?
01:24:13.000 I'm not much for patting myself on the back, so I'll let you do that real quick, and then we'll move on.
01:24:18.000 I'm overwhelmed by your charisma, Joe.
01:24:21.000 Thank you very much, sir.
01:24:23.000 But getting back to this video, I didn't see anyone freaking out over it, but anything that maybe Sam Harris, our friend, would say...
01:24:33.000 Overblown and blown out of proportion to the extreme because it's a target.
01:24:38.000 Because that label, Islamophobia, is so easy.
01:24:41.000 Like, when Ben Affleck, that fucking dumbass, when he went after him on the Bill Maher show and just really, like...
01:24:48.000 It was such an obvious ploy to fit into that idea.
01:24:53.000 It wasn't like a well thought out, well examined point of view.
01:24:58.000 It was like, I can't believe what you're saying.
01:25:00.000 What you're saying is so racist.
01:25:01.000 He's arrogant in his ignorance.
01:25:03.000 Yes.
01:25:04.000 Arrogant in the fact that he felt like this was an easy thing to pull off.
01:25:09.000 That's what I think.
01:25:10.000 And he'd get the applause from the audience.
01:25:11.000 Yes, exactly.
01:25:12.000 He was searching for social brownie points, surfing social brownie points.
01:25:16.000 But going back to the anti-Jewish stuff, I mean, I grew up in Lebanon, as you know, and I'm Jewish.
01:25:23.000 I mean, I'm an atheist, but I'm Jewish.
01:25:24.000 Tough action.
01:25:25.000 Yeah.
01:25:25.000 By the way, for anybody who's going to write and say, but how could he be Jewish and an atheist?
01:25:29.000 You can be both.
01:25:30.000 Some of the most famous Jews were all atheists.
01:25:33.000 Judaism is more than just adherence to a set of religious narratives, right?
01:25:38.000 There's There's a cultural element.
01:25:39.000 There is a historical element.
01:25:41.000 There are all sorts of facets to being Jewish that don't necessarily mean you have to believe in bugabuga stuff, right?
01:25:46.000 Booga booga!
01:25:48.000 Now I'm going to get hate mail from the rabbis.
01:25:50.000 You're going to get hate from the booga boogas, too.
01:25:52.000 But anyways, so I grew up in Lebanon.
01:25:55.000 Now you might say, oh, but Lebanon was such a progressive, tolerant, wonderful place where everybody got along.
01:26:00.000 I wouldn't say that.
01:26:01.000 I used to date a Lebanese girl.
01:26:02.000 And what did she say?
01:26:03.000 She told me it was fucking craziness.
01:26:05.000 Was it?
01:26:05.000 But she was...
01:26:06.000 Well, she grew up in America, but her family was from Lebanon.
01:26:10.000 Well, the typical sort of narrative that you hear is that Lebanon was, of all countries in the Middle East, was the most progressive one.
01:26:18.000 And to some extent, that was true.
01:26:19.000 But what they don't understand is that progressive in the context of the Middle East is very, very different than progressive in the West, right?
01:26:26.000 So if you were Jewish, you were, quote, tolerated.
01:26:30.000 That means that we'll tolerate you until we no longer tolerate you.
01:26:34.000 And hence, that's why we left Lebanon, because we were going to be executed, right?
01:26:37.000 So I grew up sort of with a dark secret.
01:26:41.000 I'm Jewish.
01:26:41.000 I mean, right?
01:26:42.000 You didn't wear a Star of David.
01:26:43.000 Now, if people wanted to find out if you were Jewish, they could easily do that.
01:26:46.000 They could go to synagogue on Saturday.
01:26:48.000 So it's not as though it was absolutely hidden.
01:26:51.000 But you certainly, you know, know your place amongst the greater crowd.
01:26:56.000 You're a minority and we tolerate you.
01:26:58.000 You live, if you like, I don't know if you know the term.
01:27:01.000 Do you know the term dimmi?
01:27:02.000 No.
01:27:03.000 Dimmi is a second, third-class citizen as enshrined in the Islamic texts for people of the book, meaning Christians and Jews, meaning monotheists, right?
01:27:15.000 Not the pagans, not the polytheists, not the Hindus, not the Buddhists, not the atheists, but Jews and Christians.
01:27:22.000 Under Islamic law could be afforded protection as long as they pay the jizya.
01:27:27.000 That means they pay sort of a pull tax to be protected by their Muslim overlords.
01:27:32.000 That's called to live as a dhimmi.
01:27:35.000 So in Lebanon, you didn't officially have to pay that pull tax, but what you did is you knew your place.
01:27:42.000 So for example, my brother David, who was a...
01:27:44.000 You would like this because you're a fighter guy, MMA guy.
01:27:48.000 He used to be in the Olympics in judo in 1976. Well, in the early 70s, he had won several Lebanese championships.
01:27:56.000 And then one day, he was visited by some guys who told him that, you know, Jew boy, it's time to sort of stop winning, so it's time to retire, or else you might end up at the bottom of a river.
01:28:07.000 Then he left to pursue his career in Judo in France.
01:28:10.000 This was before the Civil War started.
01:28:13.000 When we escaped Lebanon, I mean, literally, we're escaping execution.
01:28:19.000 This is the first time that anybody hears this particular story.
01:28:21.000 So that's your birthday gift.
01:28:23.000 Thank you.
01:28:24.000 So as the captain said that we were out of Lebanese airspace, this is when we're leaving Lebanon to emigrate to Canada.
01:28:34.000 And he says, we're out of Lebanese.
01:28:36.000 My mother takes out a Star of David, puts it around my neck and says, now you don't have to hide who you are.
01:28:42.000 Now this is in progressive Lebanon, pluralistic Lebanon.
01:28:45.000 So now watch what's going to happen now.
01:28:48.000 I'm going to receive comments of people saying, what a hate monger he is.
01:28:52.000 He's just trying to make those other folks look bad.
01:28:55.000 So my whole personal history is somehow negated.
01:28:59.000 I'm either making it up Or, why am I talking about this?
01:29:03.000 So I'm the hateful guy for mentioning that I escaped execution of others.
01:29:08.000 Well, I don't think you should pay those people any mind.
01:29:11.000 Certainly not address them when they're not even communicating with you.
01:29:13.000 You're sort of artificially bringing up their voices and then responding to their voices.
01:29:18.000 There's no need for that, Godfather.
01:29:20.000 Let's move on.
01:29:22.000 But this, it disturbed me that this video wasn't, this video of this guy walking through Paris.
01:29:31.000 Was he, he was a Jewish gentleman who was dressed very obviously Jewish?
01:29:34.000 I don't know if he was Jewish or not, but he was, exactly.
01:29:37.000 It was like that girl that walked through Manhattan and got all the cat calls.
01:29:40.000 Cat calls, exactly.
01:29:41.000 That was exactly.
01:29:42.000 The idea behind it was to sort of let everybody know.
01:29:44.000 There's a similar, there's almost the identical clip Yeah.
01:30:10.000 Yes.
01:30:10.000 Things along those lines.
01:30:12.000 Charlie Hebdo, if you don't know the story, it's a magazine in Paris.
01:30:15.000 They would draw these cartoons of Muhammad, and all the cartoonists were killed by gunmen, Muslim gunmen.
01:30:23.000 So what does it say right here?
01:30:24.000 Scroll down up to the top, please, Jamie.
01:30:26.000 Watch the abuse the Jewish man gets as he walks through Paris, and this is from time.com.
01:30:32.000 And it's just fucking crazy.
01:30:35.000 The team filmed for 10 hours to get 90 seconds of material that they had to go to the roughest parts of Paris to get.
01:30:41.000 Oh, so they're saying, okay, so this is very similar.
01:30:46.000 So what they're saying, I guess, is that they really kind of blew it out of proportion because they edited it down from this 10 hours to get 90 seconds?
01:30:59.000 Is that what they're saying, Jamie?
01:31:00.000 Is that 90 seconds?
01:31:01.000 Yeah.
01:31:02.000 Okay, you don't need to watch this YouTube clip.
01:31:04.000 I just have to tell you about my personal history in Lebanon.
01:31:07.000 Do you want to hear some more stuff?
01:31:08.000 Sure, please.
01:31:09.000 I'd love to.
01:31:10.000 I'm maybe nine years old, maybe equivalent of grade four here, grade three or four.
01:31:15.000 Teacher says, okay, everybody, here's the exercise for the next, whatever, half an hour.
01:31:20.000 Get up and tell the class what you want to be when you grow up.
01:31:23.000 So, hi, my name...
01:31:25.000 I want to be a soccer player.
01:31:26.000 I want to be a policeman.
01:31:27.000 I want to be this.
01:31:28.000 Hisham gets up.
01:31:30.000 I remember his name.
01:31:31.000 I actually can even recognize his face in the old photos.
01:31:34.000 He says, when I grow up, teacher, I want to be a Jew killer.
01:31:38.000 Jew killer, Jew killer.
01:31:39.000 Everybody breaks out into applause.
01:31:42.000 Now, does that mean that everybody in Lebanon was this rabid anti-Semite?
01:31:47.000 Of course not.
01:31:47.000 But are those feelings pervasive throughout every social fabric, whether it be on TV, in political speeches, in dramas, in soap operas?
01:32:00.000 It's everywhere.
01:32:01.000 It's endemic to every single DNA of those societies.
01:32:07.000 And so that's why you have these types of problems.
01:32:09.000 I'll give you another quick example.
01:32:11.000 Let's go over that one real quick, if you don't mind.
01:32:14.000 Now we're getting into some serious stuff.
01:32:17.000 9, 8, 10, I'm not sure.
01:32:19.000 Whatever it was in that area.
01:32:21.000 And what was going through your mind?
01:32:23.000 And this is a time where you kind of, as you said, you knew your place, so you didn't openly talk about your Judaism?
01:32:32.000 Yeah, I mean, you just, you know...
01:32:34.000 Did people know you were Jewish?
01:32:34.000 People could know you're Jewish.
01:32:36.000 Did you think your students did?
01:32:38.000 No, I was a student.
01:32:40.000 But do you think the students, I mean, just your students, your fellow students.
01:32:42.000 Oh, my fellow students, my cohorts.
01:32:44.000 I think many of them probably didn't know that I was Jewish.
01:32:46.000 Yeah.
01:32:47.000 I'm almost certain.
01:32:48.000 I mean, I don't know.
01:32:48.000 I didn't sit there and talk about these issues.
01:32:50.000 So when this kid said, Jew killer, what the fuck, man?
01:32:53.000 What did that feel like?
01:32:55.000 Well, it feels like you're different.
01:32:58.000 It feels like you're in a precarious situation always.
01:33:01.000 It feels like You know, in French there's an expression, sois belle et taitois, which means be pretty and sit quietly, right?
01:33:10.000 That's what it is, know your place, okay?
01:33:13.000 So that's what it means to be tolerant, right?
01:33:16.000 To be tolerated.
01:33:17.000 It's not that you're equal, right?
01:33:19.000 You're never equal.
01:33:20.000 You can't be Prime Minister of Lebanon as a Jew.
01:33:25.000 I'll give you another quick story.
01:33:28.000 Do you know all Egyptian politics from, say, the 70s?
01:33:32.000 Abdel Nasser was a famous pan-Arabist who brought together the Arab world.
01:33:37.000 He was an Egyptian president who was viewed as the hero because he was going to sort of unite the Arab world against the colonial powers and so on.
01:33:48.000 And so he was this kind of larger-than-life superhero of the Arab world.
01:33:52.000 When he died in 1970, As often happens in the Middle East, there are all these incredibly sort of violent demonstrations on the streets.
01:34:00.000 And I was sitting in my house.
01:34:01.000 I was maybe five years old, almost six.
01:34:04.000 And as this mass of people passed by, all you hear, death to Jews, death to Jews.
01:34:10.000 What did the Jews have to do with this politician?
01:34:14.000 Passing away in Egypt.
01:34:15.000 But that's just the reflex, right?
01:34:17.000 I mean, it must be some Zionist conspiracy.
01:34:19.000 So I'm sitting there sort of hiding in my balcony as these people are passing, and it's etched in my memory the chants of death to Jews.
01:34:29.000 And there are all these sort of Arabic chants that I could repeat now, but people wouldn't understand them.
01:34:33.000 That's just part of how things were.
01:34:36.000 Now, does that mean that on every single day of my life there I was being persecuted?
01:34:42.000 Of course not, right?
01:34:43.000 I mean, I lived a normal life until I was going to be executed.
01:34:47.000 So that's the reality of the Middle East.
01:34:49.000 And that's why today you almost have no religious minorities to speak of anywhere in the Middle East, right?
01:34:55.000 I mean, the remaining bastions of Christianity in the Middle East are now either being clobbered or they're forced to leave, right?
01:35:03.000 In Iraq.
01:35:04.000 In the Copts in Egypt.
01:35:07.000 To some extent, now we're seeing it also in Nigeria.
01:35:11.000 And so, you know, this idea that we all kind of coexist in the Middle East is baloney.
01:35:16.000 It's not true.
01:35:17.000 You're tolerated at best.
01:35:19.000 What was the percentage of people that were Jews in Lebanon when you were there?
01:35:22.000 Right.
01:35:23.000 So we were part of the last remaining Jews in Lebanon.
01:35:27.000 At one point, I think, I could be off on the numbers, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, later maybe in the descriptor.
01:35:34.000 Maybe 15,000 at most, 15, 20,000 out of a population of about maybe 3 million at the zenith of, right?
01:35:41.000 So a very small minority.
01:35:43.000 Now, when Israel came along in 1948, it made it that much more difficult to be Jewish in Arab countries.
01:35:51.000 Now, this is not to give cover to anti-Semitism, which is independent of Israel, right?
01:35:56.000 Anti-Semitism has existed for 1,400 years in those parts of the world.
01:35:59.000 Independently of Israel.
01:36:01.000 But once Israel came about in 1948, it just made it that much more precarious for Jews to live in Libya and in Iraq and in Egypt and in Syria and in Lebanon.
01:36:09.000 And so there'd be these mass exoduses of Jews from Arab lands, sometimes forced, other times by choice because it just became untenable for Jews to be there.
01:36:20.000 We were part of the last wave of remaining Jews because we were very entrenched within, you know, Lebanese society.
01:36:28.000 But then once the Civil War started, it just wasn't possible to be there.
01:36:32.000 In Lebanon, you had these internal ID cards that you carried around, like a passport, but internally, that stated your religion on it.
01:36:41.000 So in the context of the Lebanese Civil War, where they would set up these roadblocks, these militia would set up roadblocks, if you get to a roadblock and somebody says, in Arabic, you say, give me your ID card.
01:36:53.000 Well, that ID card has your religion on it.
01:36:57.000 If you're the wrong religion, it's goodbye.
01:36:59.000 Well, that was what's going on with the Sunni and the Shia in Iraq.
01:37:03.000 Exactly.
01:37:04.000 Fucking roadblocks.
01:37:06.000 Roadblocks to kill people.
01:37:07.000 Well, the problem in the Middle East is that you have endless Abrahamic religions.
01:37:12.000 And again, it's not just the Muslims.
01:37:13.000 And I'm not trying to be relativists here.
01:37:15.000 But all the Abrahamic religions sort of have a narrative of uniqueness.
01:37:21.000 And it's very, very hard to coexist when, you know, each of us is the chosen people.
01:37:26.000 I have my theory about the Middle East.
01:37:28.000 And my theory is that they're the townies of the world.
01:37:32.000 What does that mean?
01:37:33.000 Townies are the people that never left their neighborhood.
01:37:35.000 Oh, right.
01:37:37.000 And if you look at the cradle of civilization, it's Babylon.
01:37:41.000 It's Sumer.
01:37:43.000 That's the oldest written language, oldest mathematics.
01:37:46.000 That's where Iraq is.
01:37:47.000 Right.
01:37:47.000 And that area is a clusterfuck today.
01:37:49.000 Right.
01:37:50.000 And everybody moved out of there.
01:37:52.000 Everybody moved out of Africa.
01:37:53.000 Africa's chaos, right?
01:37:54.000 We all know that.
01:37:55.000 I think that much like small towns you grow up in, if you go back to it, you go, Jesus, these fucking assholes are still hanging around the high school, you know, being annoying at the gas station.
01:38:06.000 They're the same people.
01:38:07.000 They're stuck in the same ways.
01:38:09.000 Yes.
01:38:09.000 They have not evolved.
01:38:10.000 They have not moved past like the rest of the world has.
01:38:13.000 And it seems like with a lot of these religions...
01:38:16.000 They're so rigid in their ideology and the standards of their behavior and the classifications of the individuals that are involved in it that it's almost inescapable.
01:38:25.000 These rigid ideologies seem like it's...
01:38:29.000 Any idea of progressive thinking or progressive thought, it's almost...
01:38:35.000 They're almost mutually exclusive.
01:38:36.000 You can't have that and exist in that form.
01:38:41.000 You know, coalitional thinking is an endemic part of human psychology, right?
01:38:46.000 The idea of us versus them is part of human nature.
01:38:51.000 And what these Abrahamic religions do is they take this and they put it on steroids, right?
01:38:57.000 There's a great study, I can't remember who it is, or I might botch it up a bit, but it goes something like this.
01:39:02.000 You bring in people into the lab, And you make them wait in a waiting area.
01:39:06.000 And you just put a sticker, either blue or red, on them.
01:39:09.000 And then you say, oh, you know, I'm going to come back in a few minutes.
01:39:11.000 I'm going to go off to do something else.
01:39:13.000 I'll be back in a few minutes.
01:39:14.000 The real point of the experiment is to see what people end up doing during that time that you're out.
01:39:20.000 What do you think happens?
01:39:21.000 The people who have the red stickers start speaking to each other.
01:39:27.000 So you're taking a completely random cue And you're forcing people to now assort along that queue, right?
01:39:34.000 Now it no longer matters what my sexual orientation is or whether I'm Muslim or Christian or Jewish.
01:39:39.000 It's red people band together versus blue people.
01:39:42.000 There are various versions of this experiment that have been done in classic social psychology.
01:39:47.000 But what that speaks to is this This inescapable trap of coalitional psychology.
01:39:55.000 And that's what happens in the Middle East.
01:39:57.000 Everything is viewed through the prism of my faith, and anybody who's not my faith is the other.
01:40:03.000 And the other is not to be trusted, is to be hated, is to be scorned out.
01:40:08.000 Now, that doesn't mean that every single person subscribes to that, but it certainly means that the narrative, the religious narrative, certainly condones that.
01:40:16.000 Yeah, with rigid ideologies and tribal behavior, and then add that to a very harsh environment, physical environment, where it's just unforgiving, it's real hard to move past that.
01:40:27.000 It's real hard to find forgiveness and enlightenment and see.
01:40:31.000 As a matter of fact, that was one of the things, it's another issue that I believe it was Michael Shermer who wrote an article about the difference between Islam and some of the other religions, is that they never went through the enlightenment.
01:40:42.000 Right.
01:40:43.000 Well, I think one of the problems, one of the...
01:40:45.000 You now see many vociferous public intellectuals that are coming out to call for an Islamic reformation.
01:40:54.000 But that's actually been happening for 1,400 years.
01:40:56.000 The problem is, it's easy to call for a reformation if you assume that there's something to be reformed.
01:41:02.000 If you think it's perfect, there's nothing to be reformed.
01:41:04.000 You're an apostate for even considering that.
01:41:06.000 But if you're going to reform it, how do you go about doing that?
01:41:09.000 When one of the tenets, the starting tenets, is that in Arabic you say...
01:41:15.000 meaning every single letter of the Quran is immutable, is eternal, and is perfect.
01:41:23.000 Well, how can you have an exegesis, how could you, exegesis, like, I'm not pronouncing it right, but like, how could you interpret text or reinterpret text when in reality you doing that becomes a form of apostasy, sacrilegious,
01:41:39.000 right?
01:41:39.000 So that's the problem.
01:41:40.000 In the context of the other Abrahamic religions, There was the capacity for the light of reformation to squeeze its way into those little holes so there could be new interpretations and so on.
01:41:52.000 In Islam, it's a bit more of a challenge.
01:41:54.000 So what about people that are Islamic reformers, who are the members of the people?
01:42:01.000 There are people today that consider themselves Muslim, but also are atheists.
01:42:06.000 There are people that consider themselves Muslims, like you consider yourself a Jew, but you're an atheist.
01:42:11.000 What about those people that aren't so ideologically rigid?
01:42:15.000 They all moved, right?
01:42:16.000 They all moved out of the Middle East.
01:42:17.000 They certainly never openly stated their non-belief in the Middle East.
01:42:22.000 Did they eat during Ramadan?
01:42:23.000 That would not be good.
01:42:24.000 That would not be good.
01:42:26.000 They'll fuck you up if you eat during Ramadan, right?
01:42:28.000 Well, and certainly ISIS now has killed many people who violated Ramadan rules.
01:42:35.000 Now, of course, then you'll hear back that they're not really, they're not Islamic, right?
01:42:39.000 I do hear that.
01:42:40.000 Listen, I've engaged people in various forms where we start chatting and then I'll quote something from, say, do you know who Yusuf Al-Qaradawi is?
01:42:48.000 He's the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, one of the foremost leaders of the Sunni sect as a religious scholar, right?
01:42:59.000 I mean, all the perfect right pedigree from an Islamic scholar's perspective.
01:43:05.000 So I'll quote something by him.
01:43:07.000 What do you think the rebuttal will be?
01:43:09.000 What?
01:43:09.000 He's not a real Muslim.
01:43:11.000 Then I'll quote something from al-Baghdadi, the so-called caliph of ISIS, who has a PhD in Islamic studies.
01:43:21.000 What do you think they'll answer?
01:43:22.000 He's not a real Muslim.
01:43:25.000 So it's play hide the ball, right?
01:43:29.000 So if you have so much duplicity in your discourse that guys who by definition are leaders and experts of Islam who are then being, you pretend that they're not Muslim because they say something that you find objectionable,
01:43:44.000 then how can we have an open and honest discourse?
01:43:47.000 You can't.
01:43:47.000 So how do we fix that?
01:43:49.000 That's my running theme, by the way, in this podcast.
01:43:53.000 How do we fix this?
01:43:53.000 I think we fix it by having people who have the courage, as some of your guests have, and maybe I can include myself in this group, who are open, who are honest, who are reasonable, who are not filled with hate, who are dispassionate.
01:44:09.000 Also, they moved.
01:44:11.000 All of them moved.
01:44:12.000 Moved out of the Middle Eastern.
01:44:13.000 So you're saying that they can't implement these changes on the ground?
01:44:17.000 I'm not saying that, but I'm like, how do you?
01:44:20.000 I'm not sure.
01:44:21.000 I think if I've got the answer, then I would be getting the Nobel Prize.
01:44:24.000 Who was the writer, something Roy, that was hacked to death with a machete recently?
01:44:29.000 Oh, the Bangladeshi.
01:44:30.000 Yeah.
01:44:30.000 There's been four of them so far.
01:44:32.000 Yeah.
01:44:32.000 He was somewhere else doing some sort of a speech on his book.
01:44:39.000 And then he went back to Bangladesh and he was hacked, yeah.
01:44:41.000 Yeah, hacked to death by machetes on the street in front of him.
01:44:44.000 His wife was hacked up, too.
01:44:46.000 It was horrible.
01:44:47.000 You know what the response is when I've challenged people on that?
01:44:49.000 What?
01:44:50.000 What they did was not Islamic.
01:44:53.000 Look, let me give you an example.
01:44:55.000 There was a recent Orthodox Jew in a gay pride parade in Tel Aviv.
01:45:02.000 Did you hear about this?
01:45:03.000 Yeah, I did hear about this.
01:45:04.000 He was stabbing people.
01:45:05.000 Stabbing people, right?
01:45:06.000 Yeah.
01:45:06.000 I mean, he didn't do this because he was alienated.
01:45:10.000 He didn't do this as a response to the financial crisis of 2007-2008.
01:45:16.000 I'm using examples, by the way, from Russell Brand's The comedian Russell Brand?
01:45:33.000 Oh, yeah.
01:45:33.000 The luminary Russell Brand?
01:45:36.000 Sarcastically, yes.
01:45:37.000 He basically was arguing that he came up with every single possible cause that you could think of other than religious fervor to explain why people move 4,000 miles away to join ISIS. It was due.
01:45:53.000 So let me give you a few.
01:45:54.000 There were about maybe seven or eight I covered on my YouTube clip, but I'll try to come up with three or four.
01:45:59.000 They were alienated.
01:46:00.000 They felt that they weren't part of the political process.
01:46:04.000 Want to say it the way he says it?
01:46:05.000 I can't.
01:46:06.000 They were alienated?
01:46:08.000 They didn't feel like they were part of the political process?
01:46:11.000 Yeah, I can't do it as well as you can.
01:46:14.000 They were upset about the financial meltdown in 2007, 2008. Financial meltdown?
01:46:21.000 Exactly.
01:46:21.000 They hated greedy, rampant, evil capitalism.
01:46:25.000 Greedy, rampant capitalism!
01:46:29.000 Right.
01:46:29.000 Am I saying all the right words?
01:46:30.000 Very good.
01:46:31.000 So, I mean, really?
01:46:34.000 That's the reason why people join...
01:46:35.000 It has nothing to do with religion.
01:46:37.000 Absolutely nothing to do with it.
01:46:38.000 So how could we have an honest discourse when this is the kind of nonsense that you keep hearing?
01:46:43.000 But you're talking to comedians.
01:46:44.000 And again, you're talking to a comedian right now.
01:46:46.000 So don't expect any logic out of this either.
01:46:48.000 No, but some people actually challenge me and say, well, why do you even take the time...
01:46:53.000 To counter this guy's views.
01:46:55.000 Well, and my answer is, he's got a lot bigger platform than I do.
01:47:00.000 He has much more power to influence minds than I do.
01:47:04.000 It doesn't matter that I might be better equipped than him.
01:47:06.000 As does Ben Affleck.
01:47:07.000 As does Ben Affleck.
01:47:08.000 And it's the same sort of thing, right?
01:47:10.000 Exactly.
01:47:11.000 And it seems like they're both kind of fishing for social brownie points.
01:47:14.000 Right.
01:47:26.000 Would seek out to murder people that don't agree with those thoughts any rational person would go.
01:47:31.000 Well, that's crazy That's these people are fucked like this is bad We can't tolerate this but once you start calling it anything whether you call it Islam or just fill in the blank make up your own name for it and then that becomes an oppressed segment of our civilization and Or at least thought of as an oppressed or boxed into that political sort of segment where you're not supposed to shit on it because it's thought to be marginalized already.
01:48:01.000 And you're just piling on.
01:48:03.000 I want to go back in a second to the Jewish guy.
01:48:06.000 Please do.
01:48:07.000 But let me answer this last point you made.
01:48:09.000 Do you think that in the 57 countries that are a member of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, the OIC, Muslims are marginalized?
01:48:17.000 No, right?
01:48:17.000 In most of those 57 countries, they constitute an extraordinary majority, if not complete majority, right?
01:48:23.000 So this narrative that Muslims are marginalized is really laughable because if you think about Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and on and on and on.
01:48:35.000 They're not marginalized.
01:48:37.000 They constitute 99% to 100% of the population, right?
01:48:40.000 If anything, it's the religious minorities that are no longer existent there that have been marginalized, right?
01:48:46.000 Or eliminated.
01:48:47.000 Or eliminated or genocidally removed.
01:48:51.000 So it's an informational war.
01:48:54.000 Yes.
01:48:55.000 That's the most important part.
01:48:57.000 It's an informational war and that information and ideology.
01:49:01.000 It's these things.
01:49:03.000 These are thoughts and patterns.
01:49:05.000 Instead of calling them religion, instead of calling this cherished tradition or cultural...
01:49:14.000 Ancient thing that you're supposed to worship, instead of calling it that, it's ideas.
01:49:21.000 These are ideas.
01:49:22.000 Right.
01:49:22.000 These ideas that this ancient script is directly handed down from God, that every word is perfect, if that's not preposterous, you tell me what the fuck is.
01:49:31.000 Exactly.
01:49:31.000 Because I get real confused when people who grew up without any science, I mean, they literally knew almost nothing when they wrote this in comparison to what we know today.
01:49:42.000 Obviously back then they were scholars, but In comparison, it's laughable to think that anybody had all the answers in 1200. What year was the Quran written, supposedly?
01:49:52.000 In terms of the revelations?
01:49:54.000 Yeah.
01:49:54.000 So 600-something.
01:49:56.000 600. So 600 AD. Yep.
01:49:59.000 About 1400 years ago.
01:50:00.000 Try reading any fucking textbook from 1400 years ago and finding correct information.
01:50:06.000 Right.
01:50:07.000 What year was Galileo prosecuted?
01:50:09.000 15-something?
01:50:11.000 Going back to the Jewish guy, I tweeted about it and I shared it.
01:50:17.000 And of course, he undoubtedly got his ideas from, I think, reading Leviticus, where, you know, if you lay with another man, you should be killed and so on, right?
01:50:27.000 So if I make that claim, right, which is an absolutely correct claim, that for this guy who took his Old Testament very seriously and then went around knifing people, It's an absolutely appropriate claim to make.
01:50:40.000 I didn't get attacked as anti-Semitic, right?
01:50:43.000 I mean, everybody says, yeah, no kidding.
01:50:44.000 An Orthodox Jew, which is very rare for an Orthodox Jew to go around killing people.
01:50:48.000 But the fact that I could make that link, there was no blowback.
01:50:53.000 But unfortunately, the West has now been convinced that if you ever make that link for one particular religion, then you are hateful.
01:51:01.000 That's a profoundly dangerous situation to be in.
01:51:05.000 It seems to be legal in this game, you can shit all over Christians.
01:51:12.000 Yes.
01:51:13.000 As a matter of fact, if you do that, you're really progressive.
01:51:17.000 Yes.
01:51:17.000 Amongst my academic friends, if you repeatedly demonstrate what a bunch of buffoons these Christian hicks are, then that garners you brownie points.
01:51:27.000 Yeah, why are Christian hicks any less profound Because Islam wrongly is associated with brown people.
01:51:40.000 And you don't mess with that.
01:51:42.000 Yeah, but a lot of Baptists are black.
01:51:45.000 True, true.
01:51:46.000 Do people mock Southern Baptists as much as they mock like...
01:51:50.000 That's an open empirical question.
01:51:51.000 It's a good question, right?
01:51:53.000 Yeah, that's a good question.
01:51:54.000 I bet they kind of leave that alone.
01:51:55.000 They start singing and chanting.
01:51:56.000 It's beautiful.
01:51:57.000 It's folksy.
01:51:58.000 That's right.
01:51:58.000 It's soulful.
01:51:58.000 There's a lot of black people involved.
01:51:59.000 Yes.
01:52:00.000 Soulful.
01:52:01.000 They're singing.
01:52:02.000 It's apostolic.
01:52:02.000 It's like an apostle.
01:52:04.000 It's ridiculous.
01:52:05.000 It's funny.
01:52:06.000 So it's tough dealing with all this stuff on a daily basis on Twitter and so on.
01:52:11.000 Well, people don't want to be judged in a negative way, and especially in this society, in this culture, in this easy-to-act culture, because it's really easy to make a tweet about someone or write a Facebook post about someone or a blog entry about someone attacking them.
01:52:28.000 Yes.
01:52:28.000 And then once you've done that, boy, you have opened up the floodgates.
01:52:32.000 And they will just experience all sorts of pylons from all these other people that either agree or support or don't want to be labeled such themselves.
01:52:40.000 So they'll attack you to make sure everyone knows that they're not like you.
01:52:45.000 Right.
01:52:46.000 It's interesting that you say this because some of the biggest blowback I've gotten on my public Facebook page has been whenever I've called out Russell Brand on something.
01:52:55.000 Apparently, some of my fans are also Russell Brand fans, which I don't know how these two worldviews can coexist.
01:53:04.000 But they got really upset that, you know, I was being elitist.
01:53:07.000 You know, he's doing a lot of social good.
01:53:10.000 Yes, some of his stuff is quackery, but he's a good guy.
01:53:12.000 His heart is in the right place.
01:53:14.000 And I'm being an asshole for criticizing him.
01:53:16.000 And I really, really vitriol for some of these folks.
01:53:20.000 But you don't know.
01:53:21.000 You've never lived in the middle.
01:53:22.000 Oh, wait.
01:53:25.000 You've never heard anybody yell, kill the...
01:53:27.000 Oh, you did.
01:53:28.000 Now, incidentally, I should mention that my first exposure to Russell Brand, before I knew about all his political stuff...
01:53:34.000 Funny movies.
01:53:35.000 Well, exactly.
01:53:36.000 And one in particular...
01:53:37.000 Did some great movies.
01:53:37.000 One in particular, which I must have seen about 10 times, Forgetting Sarah Marshall.
01:53:42.000 Great movie.
01:53:43.000 And so I've sat there and laughed and thought he was a very funny guy.
01:53:47.000 And then I came across his political rants, and I no longer thought he was such a cool guy.
01:53:51.000 Well, as I've said on Twitter, I believe that he is neck deep in hippie pussy right now and really has no idea what's going on.
01:53:57.000 I think it cuts off his circulation.
01:53:59.000 When there's that much hippie pussy coming at you, I think the circulation to your brain, it's very hard for the heart to pump it through all the kisses that he receives on his neck.
01:54:08.000 Right.
01:54:09.000 That's the going theory?
01:54:10.000 Okay.
01:54:10.000 That's my theory.
01:54:11.000 I think it's a pretty good one.
01:54:12.000 Oh, dude, they throw themselves at that poor guy.
01:54:14.000 Really?
01:54:15.000 Oh, yeah, I'm sure.
01:54:15.000 Look at him.
01:54:16.000 He's beautiful.
01:54:17.000 Okay.
01:54:17.000 Used to date Katy Perry.
01:54:19.000 Ooh.
01:54:19.000 Did he?
01:54:19.000 Yeah.
01:54:20.000 Married to her.
01:54:21.000 Ah.
01:54:22.000 Shazam, son.
01:54:23.000 So what happened to that blissful union?
01:54:25.000 He had to save the world, bro.
01:54:26.000 Oh, that's true.
01:54:27.000 Come out of time for pop stars.
01:54:28.000 That's true.
01:54:29.000 California girl.
01:54:30.000 All that frivolous shit.
01:54:31.000 Yeah.
01:54:32.000 By the way, she was very religious.
01:54:33.000 She was?
01:54:34.000 Yeah.
01:54:35.000 I mean, I don't know her exact story, but apparently...
01:54:37.000 She was very, very religious and her original sort of foray into the music industry was all that sort of religious music.
01:54:45.000 And then when that sort of didn't stick, then she became, you know, kind of deviated from that and became a pop star.
01:54:51.000 But her roots are very much, you know, Christian based.
01:54:55.000 Well, you know, I think that a lot of these folks, that they're trying to do good, like Russell, I probably get along with him great if I sat down and talked to him.
01:55:07.000 And I think when I hear him talk and I hear the things that he's saying, I feel like he is doing a lot of good.
01:55:13.000 I think he is opening up a lot of people's eyes because he is a very public figure, and he is saying a lot of things that make a lot of sense about the financial world, about...
01:55:24.000 About war and about the nature of controlling natural resources.
01:55:29.000 There's a lot of things that he says that I agree with.
01:55:31.000 But I think that when you get caught up in that world, there are some very clear sort of behavior patterns that you have to subscribe to.
01:55:39.000 And this Islamophobia label is one you want to avoid at all fucking costs.
01:55:44.000 If you get hit with that one, that's a heavy one today.
01:55:47.000 It's a heavy one in this politically charged world.
01:55:49.000 You know, I made this point on a show recently that in the West, the Islam narrative doesn't yet have the power to literally behead people.
01:56:01.000 I mean, if you say some really nasty stuff against Islam in the Middle East, well, we can solve that problem easily.
01:56:07.000 We get rid of you.
01:56:08.000 But in the West, what you could do is you could behead somebody's reputation, right?
01:56:12.000 I mean, a metaphorical beheading.
01:56:14.000 And that's what happens to guys like Sam Harris and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
01:56:18.000 I mean, fortunately, you know, I've never really faced this kind of blowback.
01:56:25.000 Maybe because I'm somewhat more measured in how I speak.
01:56:27.000 I'm not exactly sure why.
01:56:28.000 Well, you're also talking about your personal experiences in Lebanon.
01:56:31.000 Exactly.
01:56:32.000 Which gives you more authenticity, whereas Sam is viewed as some white guy who's speaking from his...
01:56:37.000 Fucking cracker.
01:56:38.000 Exactly.
01:56:39.000 But, I mean, that's really what you see.
01:56:41.000 There are all these guys, and I don't know if you know about them, I won't even mention them, so I don't give them any airplay, that go around pretty much blaming everything on so-called new atheists.
01:56:51.000 So, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris are these sort of evil patriarchs.
01:56:57.000 And Hitchens before he died.
01:56:58.000 And Hitchens before he died.
01:57:00.000 Who's the fourth Daniel Dennett.
01:57:02.000 I don't know that dude.
01:57:05.000 Are you joking or are you being serious?
01:57:07.000 I don't know.
01:57:07.000 He's a philosopher at some school in Boston, actually.
01:57:12.000 Maybe Brandeis?
01:57:13.000 I'm not exactly sure.
01:57:14.000 One of those schools.
01:57:15.000 But anyways, they go around.
01:57:18.000 Just smearing these guys, right?
01:57:20.000 They're hate mongers, they're evil.
01:57:23.000 There's a lot of gravity attached to that.
01:57:24.000 Exactly.
01:57:25.000 And now people who want to come into the discussion have to really think hard whether they want to be exposed to this kind of blowback.
01:57:34.000 And so you get self-censorship, right?
01:57:37.000 Yes.
01:57:37.000 I mean, I've had, and I don't think I've shared this story ever again, so double happy birthday.
01:57:42.000 I can't believe this.
01:57:43.000 So amazing.
01:57:44.000 I've had my wife, so I open up my laptop and I start typing something.
01:57:49.000 And she'll come around nervously looking at what I'm typing.
01:57:52.000 I say, why are you hovering over me?
01:57:54.000 And she said, and this should give chills to anybody listening to this, she'll say, remember, we have two children.
01:58:01.000 Oh God.
01:58:02.000 Right?
01:58:02.000 Now I'm thinking, in the 21st century, a professor in Canada, now even if my wife were paranoid, even if she's overestimating the threat of the risk, the fact that she has the reflex, the intuition, to actually engage in that behavior,
01:58:20.000 to have those thought patterns, as you said, is really demonstrating that the canary is singing in the proverbial coal mine, and it's not pretty, right?
01:58:29.000 And now I have two choices at that point.
01:58:31.000 I could either tweet whatever it is I was tweeting, right?
01:58:34.000 Or I could say, yeah, you know, she might be right.
01:58:36.000 Let me engage in self-censorship.
01:58:38.000 And every time that someone who otherwise would be weighing in on the conversation engages in self-censorship, the other side wins.
01:58:47.000 And that's where we're at now.
01:58:48.000 So to answer your question, how do we resolve this issue?
01:58:51.000 Hopefully people grow a pair and start weighing in on the matter.
01:58:56.000 Well, wasn't that one of the arguments about publishing the images from Charlie Hebdo that no one wanted to do?
01:59:02.000 Exactly.
01:59:03.000 I mean, isn't that astonishing?
01:59:04.000 These people lost their lives in the fight of a fundamental, right?
01:59:10.000 The foundational bedrock of all our freedoms is freedom of speech.
01:59:14.000 They lost their lives defending that, and every single Western media cowered and decided not to show it.
01:59:22.000 Every single one?
01:59:23.000 I mean, pretty much every single one.
01:59:24.000 Yeah, every single magazine's...
01:59:26.000 I mean, New York Times didn't.
01:59:27.000 Wall Street Journal didn't.
01:59:29.000 Time didn't.
01:59:29.000 I mean, nobody did.
01:59:30.000 As a matter of fact, there's one guy, Ezra Levant, in Canada, who published the original in 2006, and he was taken to a hate speech tribunal in Canada.
01:59:43.000 I mean, think about it.
01:59:44.000 How Orwellian is that?
01:59:45.000 A guy could be taken to a hate speech tribunal for publishing these cartoons.
01:59:51.000 It's astonishing.
01:59:53.000 Well, supposedly the cartoons are offensive.
01:59:55.000 I've seen some of the cartoons and I just thought they were kind of stupid.
01:59:59.000 You know, they seem a little on the racist side, some of them, but the idea that these could get you fucking killed.
02:00:06.000 Do you want me to show you the cartoons that are published every day in the Middle East media about Jews?
02:00:11.000 Oh, I couldn't imagine.
02:00:12.000 Okay, so you know what I mean?
02:00:13.000 Now, the reality is we should all try to get along.
02:00:16.000 We should all be respectful of one another.
02:00:18.000 You shouldn't go out of your way to harm other people's feelings.
02:00:23.000 But when it comes to testing the boundaries of freedom of speech, there should be no boundaries that can't be crossed.
02:00:30.000 Yeah, there should be.
02:00:31.000 There should be?
02:00:32.000 There should be no boundaries.
02:00:34.000 I mean, I agree with you, but when these things come up where your life is at stake, like your wife hanging over your shoulder saying, remember we have children, and these people that have Time Magazine, that own New York Times,
02:00:49.000 Los Angeles Times, they think about publishing these things and they just back off.
02:00:54.000 They back off.
02:00:55.000 They have families.
02:00:56.000 They have lives.
02:00:57.000 They don't want to be the sacrificial lamb.
02:00:58.000 They have to put a name to those articles and they publish them.
02:01:01.000 And they know that the editor knows, the publisher knows.
02:01:04.000 They all know that someone's going to find out who they are.
02:01:07.000 And that's crazy.
02:01:08.000 Right.
02:01:09.000 Look, I understand the pragmatism, but we all have to weigh in in some form or another.
02:01:14.000 Yeah, they failed.
02:01:15.000 They failed.
02:01:16.000 They failed.
02:01:17.000 Free speech took a big blow.
02:01:19.000 Now, I don't know if you know this.
02:01:21.000 Now, here's the kicker.
02:01:21.000 You want to talk about chutzpah, right?
02:01:23.000 You know what chutzpah is.
02:01:24.000 Sure.
02:01:25.000 So, I can't remember the organization.
02:01:28.000 One of the sort of Islamic organizations in the U.S., Gave an Islamophobia award to the slain Charlie Hebdo folks.
02:01:40.000 So not only did those people die for drawing cartoons, they were smeared post-mortem.
02:01:49.000 I mean, it's a level of diabolical grotesqueness that's unimaginable, right?
02:01:55.000 I mean, let them at least die in peace, right?
02:02:00.000 So this is a real big battle of ideas, and we all have to weigh in on it.
02:02:05.000 And I think that there's a lot of folks that do not want to die like that, and they also don't want to be confused with those folks that were drawing these cartoons.
02:02:14.000 They don't want to be lumped in in any way, shape, or form.
02:02:17.000 So they will come out against it a la Ben Affleck in a very strong fashion.
02:02:23.000 They will let everyone know that they are not on that team.
02:02:27.000 They do think it's racist, without any consideration whatsoever for the overall effect of those words, of calling something like that Islamophobic, or what is Islamophobic?
02:02:41.000 A fear of an ideology that is so rigid they'll kill you for a cartoon.
02:02:47.000 If that doesn't scare you, if you're not phobic of that, it seems to me, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be Muslim, you should be whatever the fuck you want, but as soon as it comes down to killing people over cartoons, we have a very weird problem on our hands.
02:03:00.000 And when we're dealing with an entire chunk of the Western world that thinks that that's okay, That should be overlooked, but you can shit all over Christians or shit all over Mormons or shit all over anybody else.
02:03:13.000 It's safe and it's okay.
02:03:15.000 Well, Book of Mormons, right?
02:03:16.000 Think about the play.
02:03:17.000 Sure, yeah.
02:03:17.000 I mean, people pay money to go and watch, you know, actors making fun openly about a religion.
02:03:25.000 Yeah.
02:03:25.000 Try to do that with one particular religion.
02:03:28.000 Yeah, try to do the Book of Quran.
02:03:29.000 Try that out.
02:03:30.000 So, I mean, I don't know if you've heard the term bigotry of lowered expectations, or there are different versions of bigotry of softened expectations.
02:03:38.000 The idea is that somehow, you know, Islam should not be held to the same standard as every other ideology, because, you know, they'll go crazy.
02:03:48.000 That itself is racist, right?
02:03:50.000 So when I gave you earlier the example of the Iraqi scientist who said that the earth is flat, and the lady writes to me, well, why are you criticizing this guy?
02:03:59.000 She's actually racist, right?
02:04:01.000 Because she's saying that somehow this guy doesn't have the capacity to be criticized.
02:04:06.000 Whereas when I criticized the rabbi that I went to visit, this is a true story.
02:04:11.000 I was invited to a rabbi's house for Shabbat dinner, Sabbath dinner.
02:04:15.000 And as I enter the house, he introduces me to everybody.
02:04:18.000 He says, well, this is a professor, blah, blah, blah.
02:04:20.000 He studies evolution, but everybody knows that evolution has been falsified, so I'm not sure what he studies.
02:04:26.000 Well, that guy was being an idiot, right?
02:04:28.000 Now, how come when I criticize this rabbi, it's perfectly fair game?
02:04:33.000 How come when I criticize the Republican senator who denies evolution because of his Christian faith, because he's a young earth creationist, That's perfectly fair.
02:04:42.000 But if I criticize the Iraqi astronomer because he believes that the Earth is flat, that's racist?
02:04:49.000 Well, it's human folly.
02:04:51.000 Exactly.
02:04:52.000 It's what it is.
02:04:53.000 I mean, we're in a very weird predicament with this one very large segment of our population on this planet.
02:05:00.000 I mean, we're talking about a billion people, right?
02:05:03.000 1.6.
02:05:03.000 1.6?
02:05:04.000 1.6.
02:05:05.000 That's a large chunk.
02:05:06.000 Goddamn, that's a lot of fucking people.
02:05:09.000 Now, how do you see the trajectory?
02:05:12.000 Do you see this ever, the pendulum swinging the other way?
02:05:17.000 What do you think would be the catalyst to redress some of this grand folly?
02:05:23.000 Go ahead.
02:05:24.000 Psychedelic drugs.
02:05:26.000 For real.
02:05:26.000 I think it's the only thing that's going to work.
02:05:28.000 They need to talk to the real God.
02:05:29.000 Have a real conversation with homeboy.
02:05:31.000 Right.
02:05:32.000 And the only way to get to him is through psychedelic drugs?
02:05:35.000 I think that's the best way.
02:05:36.000 Okay.
02:05:37.000 So I'm an atheist because I've never taken psychiatric drugs.
02:05:41.000 Not psychiatric.
02:05:43.000 Psychedelic.
02:05:43.000 You've never taken psychedelic drugs?
02:05:45.000 You want to hear something?
02:05:46.000 I've never taken any drugs.
02:05:48.000 I've never smoked a single cigarette in my life.
02:05:50.000 Wow.
02:05:51.000 You get drunk?
02:05:53.000 Very, very rarely.
02:05:54.000 As a matter of fact, the first time I ever drank, I used to be a very competitive soccer player.
02:05:59.000 I was maybe 22. I had very long hair.
02:06:02.000 Very proud of my Samsonian hair.
02:06:05.000 A bunch of soccer players on my team held me down, brought scissors, and they said, you either drink today or the hair is off.
02:06:14.000 That was the first time I ever drank.
02:06:15.000 I must have been 21, 22. Wow.
02:06:19.000 So my only vice has been maybe my dietary choices.
02:06:23.000 But you still drink occasionally, right?
02:06:25.000 Occasionally.
02:06:25.000 Well, that's a drug, right?
02:06:26.000 You know that.
02:06:26.000 Yeah, sure.
02:06:27.000 So how can you say you don't do drugs?
02:06:29.000 You know what I mean.
02:06:30.000 But I don't.
02:06:31.000 Come on.
02:06:32.000 That's just as much of a blinder as religion is.
02:06:35.000 The idea that you don't perturb your consciousness through a very distinct method.
02:06:40.000 Right.
02:06:41.000 I have a glass of wine.
02:06:43.000 You get fucked up.
02:06:44.000 I don't.
02:06:44.000 You throw them back.
02:06:45.000 You get crazy.
02:06:47.000 You smash glasses inside the chimney.
02:06:49.000 If my wife is watching right now, she does have a photo of me drunk on...
02:06:55.000 Absinthe.
02:06:56.000 No, no.
02:06:57.000 We were at Club Med, and I had drank too much, and I'm totally sloshed.
02:07:02.000 So that photo exists somewhere.
02:07:05.000 Club Med, huh?
02:07:06.000 Club Med.
02:07:06.000 You fucking dangerous bastard.
02:07:08.000 Maybe write to her.
02:07:09.000 Maybe she'll release it on Twitter.
02:07:12.000 I think there's certain psychedelic drugs that could help people alter their perceptions of this world and give you a reset, and that's what they do.
02:07:21.000 I mean, I think this is a very long conversation that I've had many, many times on this podcast, and we could have it some other time maybe if you would like to, off air or whatever, but there are...
02:07:32.000 There are psychedelic drugs that are most likely the root of all religious experiences.
02:07:36.000 In fact, there's a scholar out of Jerusalem, a pretty famous guy, I forgot the argument, but what he's essentially saying is that the burning bush that Moses described was most likely the acacia tree, or the acacia bush,
02:07:52.000 which is very rich in dimethyltryptamine, which is the most potent psychedelic drug known to man.
02:07:58.000 And I've experienced this particular drug.
02:08:00.000 And this particular drug gives you a very intense feeling of joining with the mother, with communicating with God, with getting in contact with some intelligent power, some intelligent mind,
02:08:17.000 something that is above and beyond what exists in our normal dimension that we exist in.
02:08:24.000 It's filled with complex geometric patterns that communicate with you telepathically.
02:08:30.000 It is a very, very crazy experience.
02:08:33.000 And one of the things that happens in these DMT trips is that they give you...
02:08:40.000 Like lessons of how to live life and the lessons all seem to...
02:08:44.000 You never have like these psychedelic DMT trips where they tell you what you need to do is rape more and beat the fuck out of people and steal as much shit as you can.
02:08:52.000 It's more like love.
02:08:54.000 Like love people.
02:08:55.000 Love you.
02:08:56.000 Love yourself.
02:08:57.000 Love everyone around you.
02:08:59.000 Be kind.
02:09:00.000 Don't worry about all the bullshit.
02:09:01.000 Just be nice to each other.
02:09:02.000 Just have fun.
02:09:03.000 Just enjoy it.
02:09:05.000 Spread it.
02:09:06.000 Don't lie.
02:09:07.000 Don't lie.
02:09:08.000 Don't deceive.
02:09:09.000 Don't deceive yourself.
02:09:10.000 Don't deceive anyone else and don't lose perspective.
02:09:14.000 You're gonna be here and then you're gonna be there and you're gonna be here and you're gonna be there and it's gonna go on and on and on.
02:09:19.000 It's this perpetual cycle that continues from birth to death.
02:09:24.000 Through infinity.
02:09:25.000 And you're an infinitesimal part of an endless cycle.
02:09:28.000 And this is the experience in a nutshell.
02:09:32.000 This is what you get out of it.
02:09:33.000 And very similar to the idea that you would come out of this experience with a set of tenets.
02:09:39.000 A set of rules, like Moses' commandments.
02:09:42.000 It totally makes sense that Moses could be this guy who is into smoking DMT and telling people, look, we're fucking up.
02:09:49.000 We're having all these sword fights and shooting arrows at each other and poisoning our neighbors.
02:09:53.000 You're going to get death threats from Jewish extremists now.
02:09:55.000 I doubt it, because this guy in Israel...
02:09:58.000 I'm being facetious.
02:09:58.000 I know you are.
02:09:59.000 But this guy in Israel...
02:10:00.000 See if you find it, Jamie.
02:10:02.000 See if you find that article.
02:10:03.000 But it was a pretty interesting paper, because this is a real academic who's basing this on years of research.
02:10:10.000 Well, isn't it the case that many...
02:10:16.000 Right.
02:10:17.000 Right.
02:10:31.000 And also, I think the only version in Aramaic, it was found in these clay pots in Qumran in like 1940-something.
02:10:41.000 It took forever for them to decipher these things.
02:10:43.000 And this guy, John Marco Allegro, worked on them for 14-plus years, and he was the only agnostic on the committee that was assigned to decipher it.
02:10:53.000 He was originally an ordained minister.
02:10:55.000 And over time, he became disenchanted with the idea of religion when he found all these contradictions in religion and these comparisons to other texts, and he realized that a lot of this is probably bullshit.
02:11:06.000 And so he wrote a book called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.
02:11:10.000 And after 14 years of deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls, it was his interpretation that the entire Christian religion was a massive misunderstanding, that what it was originally about Was the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms and fertility rituals.
02:11:25.000 Wow.
02:11:25.000 And that it was a fertility cult.
02:11:27.000 Because back then, it wasn't about birth control.
02:11:29.000 It was about, get pregnant, because there's not many of us.
02:11:33.000 We need more.
02:11:34.000 And the Romans might be coming, and they might fucking kill everybody.
02:11:36.000 We're going to need warriors.
02:11:37.000 We're going to need a large group of us.
02:11:39.000 And we can't let them know about these mushrooms.
02:11:42.000 I think?
02:12:02.000 Like a cosmic money shot.
02:12:05.000 Cosmic money shot.
02:12:06.000 And that these mushrooms would grow out of the ground.
02:12:10.000 You know how it is when you have a rain and then you go outside.
02:12:13.000 In the morning you see mushrooms that are already grown.
02:12:15.000 They weren't even there last night and now they're there.
02:12:17.000 They grow so quickly.
02:12:19.000 You would find these and they would eat these and have these intense psychedelic experiences, of course.
02:12:26.000 And so if you...
02:12:28.000 Okay, hold on a second.
02:12:29.000 But leave it up.
02:12:30.000 Leave it up.
02:12:31.000 So that these people that would experience these would have these intense transformative trips and without any science, without any knowledge of what the components of these mushrooms are, which is very similar, by the way, to human neurochemistry.
02:12:46.000 Right.
02:12:47.000 DMT is NN-dimethyltryptamine and that exists in the human brain.
02:12:52.000 It's produced by the liver and the lungs and They now have proven, due to this guy, Dr. Rick Strassman's work, he wrote this great book called DMT, The Spirit Molecule.
02:13:01.000 He's a professor of the University of New Mexico and got DEA approved clinical tests on subjects using DMT. And this Cottonwood Research Foundation that he helped start has proven that it's produced in the pineal gland of live rats.
02:13:17.000 And what the pineal gland is, the third eye.
02:13:20.000 In reptiles, it actually has a retina and a lens.
02:13:23.000 I mean, it literally is in the center of the brain where the third eye is in Eastern mysticism.
02:13:28.000 It's producing this intense psychedelic drug.
02:13:31.000 And that's what this Hebrew University researcher Moses was tripping at Mount Sinai.
02:13:37.000 I mean, is he...
02:13:38.000 I obviously don't know this literature.
02:13:40.000 Is he viewed as a sort of outlier quack?
02:13:43.000 You would have to, like, research it and find out more about it, because I did a cursory examination, because I'm so familiar with the drug, it only makes sense to me.
02:13:52.000 This is, he visited the Amazon and drank ayahuasca, and he has this idea that that is what this was probably all about, because ayahuasca has been, they believe, it's very difficult to find out what, when the Amazonian indigenous people were drinking this brew,
02:14:10.000 but ayahuasca is a form of DMT. And much like the acacia bush is very rich in DMT, thousands of plants are rich in DMT. DMT exists in plants.
02:14:20.000 Sorry.
02:14:21.000 But what they're doing with this ayahuasca is an orally active version of DMT because it has one plant that has DMT and another plant that has something called an MAO inhibitor because DMT is broken down in the gut by something called monoamine oxidase.
02:14:37.000 Cool.
02:14:38.000 Do you know this ritual at one of the Amazonian tribes?
02:14:42.000 I discussed this in one of my books with the bullet ants.
02:14:45.000 Are you familiar with this?
02:14:46.000 Yeah, incredible.
02:14:47.000 Let me just mention briefly for your viewers who might not know it.
02:14:50.000 Because I think they drink some psychotropic mixture.
02:14:54.000 Yeah, I think they do.
02:14:55.000 I think it might be Hachuma or one of those.
02:14:57.000 There's a bunch of different crazy psychedelic drugs they take down there.
02:15:00.000 But apparently, so they basically have to, they sedate these bullet ants.
02:15:06.000 And then they wear these gloves.
02:15:09.000 With smoke, right?
02:15:09.000 With smoke.
02:15:10.000 And then they wear these gloves where they then sort of weave the ants into the glove.
02:15:15.000 As the ants come out of their stupor, they start biting the wearer.
02:15:23.000 Now, one bite from that ad, I mean, it's called bullet ad because the pain is greater than if you were hit by a bullet.
02:15:29.000 Apparently, it's the highest pain-inducing thing in nature.
02:15:34.000 And they have to do it 20 times.
02:15:39.000 On 20 different occasions before they're sort of accepted into manhood or whatever the individual is.
02:15:44.000 But I mean, the point, the link to your story is that I think they're under some psychotropic...
02:15:51.000 Yeah, there it is.
02:15:52.000 Those are the myths.
02:15:53.000 My friend Steve was bitten by a bullet ant.
02:15:55.000 Really?
02:15:55.000 In Bolivia.
02:15:56.000 Yeah, he got bitten on his heel.
02:15:57.000 He said it was unbelievably painful.
02:15:59.000 Really, huh?
02:15:59.000 He said it lasted for hours, too.
02:16:01.000 But he said when it was over, it was really weird.
02:16:03.000 It was so painful that he was delusional, and he couldn't even remember which heel got bit after it was over.
02:16:09.000 Because once it subsided, it was like he woke up from a trance or something like that.
02:16:13.000 He said it was really, really painful and really difficult.
02:16:17.000 Difficult to concentrate on anything like that.
02:16:18.000 On a slightly less spiritual...
02:16:21.000 Can we segue from the money shots to an actual study on money shots?
02:16:25.000 On sperm?
02:16:26.000 Yes.
02:16:26.000 Yes.
02:16:27.000 And the reason why I thought about this is because I know that in your...
02:16:29.000 Someone's got a fucking one-track mind.
02:16:32.000 No, because I know that...
02:16:33.000 By the way, thank you very much for inviting me to your show in Montreal and to the UFC. That was really fun.
02:16:40.000 Oh, I'm glad you had a good time.
02:16:41.000 Yeah.
02:16:41.000 And so when I was at your show with my wife, I think you had a little bit on sperm.
02:16:45.000 I can't remember what it was.
02:16:46.000 I'm sure I did.
02:16:47.000 Yeah.
02:16:47.000 Anyways, and I think I might have sent you a direct message that kind of spoke to some of the issues that you raised.
02:16:53.000 So here we go.
02:16:54.000 Let's talk about the science of sperm and porn.
02:16:58.000 You ready?
02:16:58.000 Yes.
02:16:59.000 Okay.
02:16:59.000 So this was a study done a few years ago by some colleagues of mine, where they wanted to look at the content of porno movies.
02:17:08.000 So if you think of the typical male fantasy, a man wants to have sex with many women, right?
02:17:13.000 So most societies are polygynous, meaning one man with multiple women, right?
02:17:18.000 That's how it should be.
02:17:20.000 Goddammit.
02:17:20.000 That's most societies?
02:17:22.000 Most societies.
02:17:22.000 85% of societies have historically condoned polygyny.
02:17:27.000 Well, what the fuck?
02:17:28.000 By the way, people wrongly say polygamy.
02:17:30.000 Polygamy just means one with many.
02:17:34.000 Polygyny is one man with many women.
02:17:36.000 Polyandry is one woman with many men.
02:17:40.000 So stay with me.
02:17:41.000 Well, that's horseshit.
02:17:42.000 You don't want that.
02:17:43.000 Actually, there are very few societies that have that.
02:17:46.000 Exactly!
02:17:47.000 I've been telling everybody this, Jamie.
02:17:49.000 Because of paternity uncertainty, by the way.
02:17:50.000 Oh, of course, right.
02:17:51.000 So here it goes.
02:17:53.000 So polygyny is what men want.
02:17:56.000 Basically, harem building, one man with many women.
02:17:58.000 Yet, if you do a content analysis of porn movies, what you find...
02:18:02.000 That study has been done by a guy by the name, aptly Nicholas Pound.
02:18:10.000 That's a shout-out to this guy.
02:18:12.000 He owes me now.
02:18:12.000 Okay.
02:18:13.000 So, he did a content analysis where he showed that polyandrous depictions are much more common in porn movies, meaning one woman with multiple men, right?
02:18:24.000 Okay.
02:18:24.000 And he argued basically that the reason for that is because it's an excitatory cue for sperm competition.
02:18:32.000 So watch this now.
02:18:35.000 So then these other researchers came along and said, well, how can we test this?
02:18:38.000 So what they did is basically they asked men to take one of two images home, either with women having sex or one woman with multiple guys, polyandry.
02:18:50.000 And then masturbate to those images, and then bring back their sperm to the lab to be evaluated, or as I like to say, the fruits of their manual labor.
02:19:00.000 And guess what they found?
02:19:02.000 That the sperm that originated from the masturbations to polyandrous images had greater motility.
02:19:12.000 In other words, they were more vigorous, they moved a lot more, which supported the idea of sperm competition.
02:19:17.000 And this is exactly what you get in animal husbandry, right?
02:19:20.000 When you want your stud to be riled up to have sex, you often will show another male having sex with a female, and then this will get the rise out of him.
02:19:30.000 So this explains, if you like, the disconnect between how come men are so desirous to have sex with many women at once, and yet that's what you would think would be depicted in porn movies, and that's not what you get.
02:19:42.000 You get a lot more of two, three guys on one woman.
02:19:45.000 So now I have elucidated the mysteries of porn for you.
02:19:49.000 That makes sense on a biological level because the more promiscuous the females are around men, the larger their testicles are because their testicles grow, right?
02:20:01.000 The testicles grow and they produce more sperm because of the competition.
02:20:04.000 As a matter of fact, so that, let me jump on that.
02:20:06.000 So if you look across primates at the size of the testicle of the males of that species, As a function of female promiscuity in that species, you see a perfect correlation.
02:20:19.000 So mountain gorillas...
02:20:20.000 Little tiny balls, little tiny dick.
02:20:22.000 Very good, right?
02:20:23.000 They're hugely impressive, but they have a complete sexual territoriality.
02:20:28.000 Yeah, they fucked up.
02:20:29.000 They became too powerful.
02:20:31.000 Right.
02:20:31.000 Chimps, on the other hand, massive testicles.
02:20:34.000 They're walking testicles, basically, right?
02:20:36.000 Precisely because it's an adaptation to female promiscuity within that species.
02:20:40.000 Humans are closer to the chimp end of the scale.
02:20:44.000 Now, speaking about the thought police and all this BS stuff that you see on campuses, when I describe those particular studies, the feminists in the crowd will be very, very pleased because then I'm demonstrating that women can be promiscuous.
02:21:01.000 That fits the narrative of feminism.
02:21:03.000 If on the other hand, I might five minutes later say, yeah, but when it comes to sexual variety, men have a slightly greater penchant for sexual variety than women, then I suddenly become Dr. Mengele, the Nazi doctor.
02:21:18.000 So basically, the evolutionary finding that I discuss Is either liberating to the feminist if it fits with the narrative, or it is a form of patriarchal sexist BS if it doesn't fit there.
02:21:32.000 And that, again, is the problem with what you see on campuses, right?
02:21:35.000 Rather than an open, honest discourse about the veracity of scientific findings, we judge these findings as a function of our pet ideology.
02:21:44.000 The pet ideology when it comes to gender identification and gender identities.
02:21:49.000 I think that there's a real interesting point to be made with that when it comes to science, too, because one of the things that's always being touted about is diversity in science and gender diversity in science, but when it comes to what people actually want to do...
02:22:04.000 There's been studies.
02:22:05.000 You give a boy a certain toy or a girl a certain toy, they're going to gravitate towards things that are more in line with their gender.
02:22:13.000 That fucks people up.
02:22:14.000 They don't want to hear that.
02:22:15.000 Some boys like trucks and some girls like dolls.
02:22:18.000 But what it should be is, what do they like?
02:22:21.000 And guess what?
02:22:22.000 If the girl likes trucks or the boys like dolls, who gives a fuck?
02:22:26.000 But let's let the data speak for itself.
02:22:28.000 Let's try to understand.
02:22:29.000 I'm so happy you mentioned toy preferences because that's one of my favorite examples to demonstrate the lunacy of the whole social constructivist stuff.
02:22:36.000 So here we go.
02:22:37.000 Okay.
02:22:47.000 Of how gender role socialization happens, right?
02:22:50.000 Johnny is taught to play rough with G.I. Joe.
02:22:53.000 Linda is taught to play nurturing with the pink doll.
02:22:55.000 And that starts the cascade of arbitrary sexist gender role socialization.
02:23:00.000 So I decided that I wanted to take that premise on and I wanted to bring data from a very, very broad range of fields to completely dismantle this bullshit.
02:23:08.000 Okay?
02:23:08.000 So here we go.
02:23:09.000 So if you take children who are in the pre-socialization stage of their cognitive development, I think?
02:23:35.000 If you take other species, you take vervet monkeys and rhesus monkeys, and you take infants of those species, it replicates the sex specificity of toy preferences of human infants.
02:23:46.000 Let's go on.
02:23:47.000 If you take little girls who suffer from something called an endocrinological disorder called congenital adrenal hyperplasia, This is a disorder that masculinizes little girls.
02:24:00.000 It masculinizes their morphology, their physical traits, but it also masculinizes their behaviors.
02:24:06.000 Guess what happens to their toy preferences?
02:24:08.000 They become more like little boys.
02:24:11.000 If you go to Sweden, which is the...
02:24:15.000 The most gender-neutral country in the world.
02:24:18.000 Actually, it's been studied.
02:24:19.000 Really?
02:24:20.000 Gender-neutral household?
02:24:21.000 So, in other words, basically what happens in Sweden is that the government has systematically tried to completely eradicate, as a big social experiment, any gender markers.
02:24:32.000 You remove the gender pronouns.
02:24:35.000 Gender pronouns are being removed?
02:24:37.000 Gender pronouns are being removed?
02:24:39.000 You don't say he or she in Sweden?
02:24:40.000 That's right.
02:24:41.000 I mean, I don't speak Swedish, but that's what I hear.
02:24:44.000 And there's a scale that's developed by a gentleman called Hofstede, where he ranks the countries from around the world on this gender score, and Sweden is off the chart on its femininity.
02:24:57.000 It's just outrageous.
02:24:58.000 And so if you now go to that country and study, it's a perfect field experiment, right?
02:25:04.000 Because they've spent 40 years trying to eradicate arbitrary sexist gender stereotypes, and therefore you should see that maybe the toy preferences would now be no longer like everywhere else.
02:25:15.000 Guess what you find in those countries?
02:25:17.000 It's exactly the same as anywhere else.
02:25:20.000 If you go to 3,000 years ago to funerary arts, like on funerary monuments where little children are depicted in ancient Greece, and you study how the children are depicted, the little boys are shown with wheels and trucks and so on.
02:25:35.000 Not trucks, but like wheelbarrow stuff.
02:25:38.000 And the girls are shown with dolls.
02:25:40.000 You could study cultures in various areas of Africa, indigenous cultures, as has been done by a French anthropologist, and the exact same behaviors manifest themselves.
02:25:50.000 That just shows you how long we've been under the oppressive thumb of the patriarchy.
02:25:54.000 It's very good.
02:25:55.000 Prehistorical.
02:25:56.000 Very good.
02:25:56.000 That's what it is.
02:25:57.000 The patriarchy, exactly.
02:25:58.000 The mass media has been around even before then.
02:26:01.000 How do we explain this?
02:26:02.000 It's written in clay tablets.
02:26:03.000 They were bullshitting even back then.
02:26:05.000 Men are assholes.
02:26:05.000 By the way, you know what the 2D, 4D digit ratio is?
02:26:10.000 Are you familiar with that?
02:26:10.000 Yes, yes.
02:26:12.000 So please explain.
02:26:12.000 So the 2D, 4D is the length of the ratio of your index finger to your ring finger.
02:26:18.000 And it is a sexually dimorphic trait, meaning that men have much longer ring fingers than index fingers, whereas women, the two fingers are roughly the same length.
02:26:28.000 Why is this important to this discussion?
02:26:30.000 Because that morphological feature is actually shaped in utero as a function of how much testosterone you've been exposed to in utero.
02:26:39.000 Okay?
02:26:40.000 Therefore, what some researchers have done is they've looked at the digit ratio of little boys and then linked that to their play pattern behaviors.
02:26:50.000 And again, what do you find?
02:26:52.000 Little boys who have more masculinized digit ratios have more masculinized toy preferences.
02:26:58.000 Same thing has been done, by the way, with actually circulating testosterone.
02:27:02.000 You take seven-day-old children, and until six months old, you measure their testosterone, and testosterone level predicts toy preferences.
02:27:12.000 So look how many different...
02:27:22.000 It's very uncomfortable for me that people want to ignore that and put this all on cultural ideas and stereotypes that people subscribe to because they don't want their child to be ostracized by the community.
02:27:36.000 It's very uncomfortable for me.
02:27:38.000 It drives me nuts because I think it fucks people's heads up too.
02:27:42.000 Because then they feel like there's something wrong with them for liking masculine things.
02:27:45.000 Right.
02:27:46.000 And being masculine or liking masculine things seems less and less of a favorable pursuit in 2015 than it's kind of ever been before.
02:27:55.000 It's like men get kind of shit on in this society because we get blamed for a lot of things.
02:28:00.000 And I'm not saying poor men, you know, because I think being a man is pretty fucking badass.
02:28:04.000 I like it.
02:28:05.000 I enjoy it.
02:28:06.000 But I just also don't think that we're necessarily evil, either.
02:28:09.000 I mean, if some men do evil shit, it doesn't mean that men are evil.
02:28:13.000 And if boys like trucks or girls like dolls, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with either one of them.
02:28:20.000 But it is wrong when we try to ascribe or prescribe...
02:28:25.000 When we try to put that into some sort of an ideological box, and we dismiss it or we categorize it as being a part of the problem with our culture, when it's so clearly a natural thing.
02:28:39.000 Well, I think it stems, this lunacy, and I'm not sure if we discussed it last time I was on the show, but this lunacy, I think, comes from a good place.
02:28:49.000 An idiotic place, but a good place.
02:28:51.000 The idea of a brain being empty slate.
02:29:07.000 How is biological determinism nonsense?
02:29:09.000 How so?
02:29:09.000 Because almost everything is an inextricable mix of your biology and environmental inputs.
02:29:16.000 Almost nothing that you could think of doesn't incorporate some environmental input into whoever you become.
02:29:22.000 So the idea of it being completely independent of any...
02:29:25.000 Exactly.
02:29:26.000 So the idea of nature versus nurture is really a silly moot dichotomy.
02:29:30.000 Because it's a big, broad spectrum of inputs.
02:29:32.000 Exactly.
02:29:33.000 And the example that I love to give to drive that point home, some of your viewers might have heard me say it before, it's the cake metaphor.
02:29:40.000 So if you take a cake, you take all the ingredients of the cake.
02:29:43.000 Here's the baking soda, here's the flour, here's the eggs, here's the sugar.
02:29:48.000 It's a vegan cake.
02:29:51.000 Once you put it all together, you're unable to then point.
02:29:55.000 Once the cake is made, you can't point, show me where the eggs are.
02:29:59.000 It's an inextricable mix.
02:30:01.000 That's the idea of nature versus nurture.
02:30:03.000 It makes no sense.
02:30:04.000 We're this big melange.
02:30:06.000 We're this cake.
02:30:08.000 So I think it comes from the idea that biology is scary because it somehow doesn't carry with it degrees of freedom.
02:30:17.000 You know, if boys are supposed to be this and girls are supposed to be that, then we're doomed to those biological imperatives.
02:30:24.000 And again, that's not true.
02:30:29.000 I mean, some people are more this way, some people are more that way.
02:30:33.000 So there's nothing really deterministic.
02:30:35.000 Also, just another point, for example, men have an evolved desire to seek status.
02:30:43.000 That's the biological imperative because women desire status in men.
02:30:47.000 But now the way Joe and Gad go about instantiating that evolutionary imperative is completely different as a function of their idiosyncratic talents.
02:30:57.000 That shows you that it's not determined, right?
02:30:59.000 It's not that we both have to become comics and that's the only way to gain status.
02:31:05.000 What is common to both of us is we both aspire to To ascend the social hierarchy.
02:31:11.000 That's the common biological imperative.
02:31:13.000 How we go about it is completely determined based on your unique personhood.
02:31:17.000 So again, there's nothing deterministic about it.
02:31:20.000 What do you think it is about the current climate where people want to ignore all these biological markers like you were talking about with children and gravitating towards certain toys and testosterone versus estrogen in babies?
02:31:35.000 What do you think it is about people that want to avoid these things, ignore this data?
02:31:41.000 Well, it's exactly that.
02:31:42.000 It's the fact that it's very, very hopeful, or the narrative is very hopeful, to assume that we all start with equal potentiality, with an app that makes us completely indistinguishable.
02:31:55.000 That's a very hopeful message because it basically says that we are infinitely malleable, right?
02:32:00.000 You know, had Joe had a different upbringing, maybe he would have been Michael Jordan.
02:32:04.000 No, you wouldn't have been.
02:32:06.000 Could have been a black guy?
02:32:08.000 I was just saying about how good a basketball player could be.
02:32:11.000 There are unique realities about the random combination of genes that made Lionel Messi that makes it such that, notwithstanding the fact that he trains a lot, much harder than most other people, He is endowed with unique talents that not every other kid would have been privy to those talents.
02:32:31.000 I always bring that point up when I talk about Jon Jones.
02:32:35.000 Who's that?
02:32:36.000 Jon, how dare you?
02:32:37.000 Uh-oh, sorry.
02:32:38.000 Former UFC light heavyweight champion.
02:32:40.000 He was one of the most talented fighters that's ever lived.
02:32:43.000 Really tall, long-reached, spectacular athletic ability, and he was the youngest ever UFC champion.
02:32:50.000 Right.
02:32:51.000 And just dominates people.
02:32:52.000 Which era?
02:32:53.000 This era.
02:32:54.000 He beat Mauricio Shogun Hua for the title and just destroyed him in his first title fight.
02:33:02.000 Shogun is a famous world-class MMA fighter who has fought the best of the best throughout history.
02:33:08.000 I always say, no matter how hard you train, if you're just a regular dude, you're never going to beat that guy.
02:33:14.000 If he trains just as hard, you're fucked.
02:33:17.000 He's just very talented, very physically talented.
02:33:21.000 Yeah, there you go.
02:33:23.000 We're not created equal.
02:33:24.000 We're just not.
02:33:25.000 Just not.
02:33:26.000 I mean, Einstein...
02:33:27.000 You've seen Ron Jeremy's dick.
02:33:28.000 I have indeed.
02:33:29.000 I have.
02:33:30.000 You have?
02:33:30.000 I have.
02:33:31.000 Not in person, but I've seen it in person.
02:33:32.000 There you go.
02:33:33.000 As a 13 or 14-year-old trying to sneak into...
02:33:35.000 And you go, good lord.
02:33:36.000 That is impressive.
02:33:37.000 Yes.
02:33:37.000 Can I also mention that he's Jewish?
02:33:39.000 Just to...
02:33:39.000 There you go.
02:33:40.000 Look at that.
02:33:41.000 By the way, if you look at...
02:33:44.000 There's this world atlas of penis sizes that came out...
02:33:51.000 And I wish to engage in modesty, but you might want to check the scores of the Lebanese men just for fun.
02:33:56.000 Really?
02:33:57.000 Giant dick, huh?
02:33:58.000 I'm just saying.
02:33:58.000 Congratulations.
02:34:00.000 Congratulations on your people.
02:34:01.000 Second place to black folks, though, right?
02:34:03.000 They were up there, I think.
02:34:07.000 They were up there.
02:34:09.000 No.
02:34:09.000 Everyone starts out...
02:34:10.000 It's just patriarchy that's making...
02:34:12.000 Women have bigger dicks than men.
02:34:13.000 Right.
02:34:14.000 Right.
02:34:14.000 It's the patriarchy that makes their clitorises smaller than penises.
02:34:17.000 Do you think that there's going to become a time in our lifetimes at all...
02:34:28.000 I find that question so fascinating because it's hard for me to predict what the trajectory would be.
02:34:34.000 On the one hand, on my pessimistic day, I think that all great empires implode from within.
02:34:42.000 You've heard that, right?
02:34:43.000 It's not that there's sort of this horde of other folks that come in.
02:34:46.000 It's the empire that It becomes cancerous within itself and it implodes.
02:34:50.000 I think on my pessimistic days, I say, no, we're screwed.
02:34:54.000 This is just going to go on further and further until the whole West collapses in this grand lunacy that we're engaged in.
02:35:02.000 But it's not the whole West.
02:35:04.000 It's not everyone.
02:35:05.000 There's a lot of people out there that aren't represented by this ideology.
02:35:09.000 But not the intelligentsia who control information, right?
02:35:12.000 But they don't really control information anymore, is my point.
02:35:15.000 The internet controls information.
02:35:17.000 That's true.
02:35:17.000 And it's not even the intelligentsia that's doing this.
02:35:20.000 It's children.
02:35:21.000 It's students that are scaring the fuck out of teachers.
02:35:24.000 Right.
02:35:25.000 Right?
02:35:25.000 I mean, that's really what it is.
02:35:26.000 It's like Tumblr and Facebook and these people that form these insulated groups where they're echo chambers.
02:35:33.000 And they, you know, they believe that this is reality.
02:35:36.000 And they want to yell it at Bernie Sanders, Black Lives Matter.
02:35:41.000 And then they get the fucking mic, which is even crazier.
02:35:44.000 They let those kids who screamed and yelled, they let them talk.
02:35:47.000 Yeah, incredible.
02:35:48.000 Just like, that's the worst fucking message to send, by the way.
02:35:51.000 We will let you have the mic, we will let you have the mic.
02:35:54.000 And they're fucking screaming at them.
02:35:56.000 So are you more optimistic?
02:35:58.000 Do you think there will be...
02:35:59.000 Yes.
02:36:00.000 Yes, I am.
02:36:01.000 How would it work?
02:36:02.000 Because kids today are growing up listening to conversations like this and realizing how retarded these 20-year-olds are.
02:36:07.000 And they're going, I want to be that when I get older.
02:36:09.000 I want to look at things for what they really are.
02:36:11.000 And I think that as they get to that position, this new crop will have grown up and come out of this dark hole that is the clan that grew up with social media.
02:36:22.000 Right.
02:36:22.000 Right.
02:36:25.000 Right.
02:36:27.000 Right.
02:36:45.000 The reach that you have, just in terms of how people have responded to my work, right?
02:36:50.000 I mean, most scientists will toil in their respective disciplines.
02:36:53.000 I mean, hopefully they do good stuff.
02:36:55.000 But the number of people that they ultimately are communicating with is a very restrained small number, right?
02:37:00.000 But by coming on these types of shows, that's why I think we were talking earlier about coming out of your shell, engaging in the public discourse, weighing in on these issues.
02:37:09.000 I always debate some of my colleagues, many of whom are very much in the ivory tower, right?
02:37:16.000 We only communicate with other members of the clergy, right?
02:37:21.000 With other members of our restricted class of highbrow.
02:37:25.000 And I think that that's not really what the job of a professor is.
02:37:28.000 I mean, that's part of the job.
02:37:29.000 We have to create knowledge and communicate it to other academics.
02:37:32.000 But if we're good academics, if we're good men of ideas, we also have to be engaging the public, right?
02:37:38.000 I mean, ultimately, the public also pays for my salary through taxes.
02:37:42.000 It's also, that's how information really gets spread.
02:37:44.000 It doesn't get spread by bouncing it around amongst each other like a little beach ball at a concert.
02:37:49.000 Exactly.
02:37:50.000 It gets spread by getting it out there into the great channel of the Internet.
02:37:54.000 Exactly.
02:37:54.000 So the number of people...
02:37:56.000 That have heard of my evolutionary psychology work as applied to consumer behavior and so on.
02:38:01.000 Through just having been on your show, it will probably take me 10 careers before I could reach as many people through some other forum.
02:38:09.000 And so I agree with you in that sense that these types of forums are profoundly important.
02:38:14.000 I only wish that more academics would actually have the courage to start coming on these types of social knowledge.
02:38:19.000 Well, it's very dangerous for them, unless they're financially independent in these environments that we have today.
02:38:24.000 I mean, you could cherry pick a million things that I've said in this show and take them out of context and paint me out to be some sort of a monster.
02:38:31.000 True.
02:38:31.000 That's just the nature of having a conversation with someone where you're joking around, whereas if you take it and put it in quotes in print, It's more controlled.
02:38:42.000 You take something out of the context of the conversation and put it in print, and you can infer all sorts of different ways that this person's trying to communicate that could be construed as being offensive.
02:38:55.000 And then it gets gross.
02:38:57.000 The difference between back then and now is now you could always just go on a podcast and talk about You could always write a Facebook blog and explain yourself in great detail with no editorial input whatsoever.
02:39:10.000 No one can come along and take away from it.
02:39:12.000 You know, I've talked to many people that have written things and then had those things, even published in online magazines, had those things heavily edited.
02:39:20.000 And chopped up and even had words put in their mouth.
02:39:23.000 I had a dispute with this journalist and we were talking about something.
02:39:25.000 I'm going, why did you say that?
02:39:27.000 And she goes, I didn't say that.
02:39:29.000 The editor put that in there.
02:39:31.000 I go, you're kidding me.
02:39:32.000 They can do that?
02:39:33.000 And she goes, yeah, they add things to it.
02:39:35.000 That's fucking insane.
02:39:37.000 I've experienced something similar to that on several occasions.
02:39:40.000 So one time a guy called me when my trade book came out.
02:39:42.000 The book has pornography in its title, The Consumer Instinct, in its subtitle.
02:39:46.000 And he really, I mean, the key point he wanted to get to was that Professor Saad argues that there is a gene for porn, which, of course, I'm not at all arguing that.
02:39:57.000 So I kept repeatedly explaining to him that to explain the evolutionary basis of why men might enjoy porn doesn't suggest that there is a set of genes in your genome that code for porn preferences.
02:40:12.000 I explained, I said, please don't, next day, you know, exactly what he wanted to write.
02:40:17.000 Of course.
02:40:17.000 Right?
02:40:18.000 But you just learned that that's part of the beast.
02:40:20.000 They don't care.
02:40:21.000 They're not trying to be honest.
02:40:23.000 Yeah.
02:40:23.000 It's not intellectual honesty.
02:40:24.000 What it is, is they're trying to get clicks.
02:40:27.000 Right.
02:40:27.000 They're trying to get people to pay attention to it, and that's what they do.
02:40:30.000 And they can do it for now, but this is a transitionary time, between this time that we're at now, where there is still this, a bit of cloudiness.
02:40:37.000 Right.
02:40:37.000 There's a bit of fog in the air of information.
02:40:40.000 Sometimes it's hard to find out exactly what the fuck is going on.
02:40:44.000 But that fog is very, very close to being lifted, and sheer intent, I think, will be displayed.
02:40:49.000 It'll be a part of discourse in a way that I don't think has existed before in the near future.
02:40:55.000 I think you're going to be able to know a lot more about what someone's trying to portray just in the next decade or so than we've ever known in the past.
02:41:04.000 And also the transparency.
02:41:06.000 That you have, the transparency, not just in your words and how you are able to communicate and describe things, but also in how you're able to defend those things if something comes up.
02:41:19.000 That just didn't exist before.
02:41:21.000 You had no recourse.
02:41:23.000 If somebody misquoted you, and I've had that happen before, A long time ago in like 99, this woman wrote an article about my show or one of my CDs.
02:41:33.000 She did a review of my CD and not just took me out of context, but completely misquoted me and changed the words of my bits to make them horrible.
02:41:44.000 And I had a conversation on the phone with her with my publicist.
02:41:47.000 I'm like, why did you do that?
02:41:48.000 And she's like, well, that's what I heard when I heard your work.
02:41:51.000 I go, that's what you heard.
02:41:52.000 That's what you heard.
02:41:54.000 I go, well, that's not what I wrote.
02:41:56.000 That's not what I said.
02:41:57.000 It's not what I wrote.
02:41:58.000 And so you lied.
02:41:59.000 I go, you're a fucking liar.
02:42:01.000 I go, you're not a journalist.
02:42:02.000 You're a liar.
02:42:03.000 And she thought I left the phone.
02:42:06.000 She thought I left and hung up because I just, I go, well, we're done talking then.
02:42:10.000 Great.
02:42:11.000 And so she goes, there was a pause, and so she says to the publishers, your client is losing it.
02:42:17.000 And I go, I'm not losing it.
02:42:19.000 You're a fucking liar.
02:42:20.000 Do you not understand what happened here?
02:42:22.000 So I wrote a story about her in my blog.
02:42:28.000 I called it Yellow Journalism, I think was the title of it, about how ridiculous she was.
02:42:33.000 And it was the first time that anybody could ever do something like that.
02:42:35.000 In the old days, you would have to get it printed somewhere.
02:42:38.000 You'd have to get it printed in a magazine.
02:42:39.000 Good luck writing an article about how you wanted to love someone because they were so full of shit.
02:42:48.000 I forget what I said.
02:42:50.000 I was just trying to be ridiculous.
02:42:51.000 I was trying to upset her.
02:42:53.000 That used to be what they could do.
02:42:55.000 You know, that some guy could listen to you talk about genes and pornography and how, you know, men could be more attracted to pornography and go, oh, I know how to make this fucking salacious.
02:43:05.000 I know how to make that guy look like an asshole.
02:43:08.000 I'm just going to say, this professor thinks there's a gene for pornography.
02:43:12.000 There.
02:43:13.000 Print, send, done.
02:43:15.000 What can he do?
02:43:16.000 Well, what can he do?
02:43:16.000 What's his name?
02:43:17.000 What's that guy's name?
02:43:18.000 Oh, I don't remember.
02:43:19.000 Well, fuckhead, whoever you are.
02:43:20.000 I could probably find it out.
02:43:21.000 Whoever you are, fuckhead, we know what you did.
02:43:23.000 That's right.
02:43:24.000 You know what you did, too, you cunt.
02:43:26.000 You know, but, I mean, you've had a platform because of being in entertainment, but I'm amazed by guys who start YouTube channels.
02:43:34.000 I recently appeared on a YouTube channel.
02:43:36.000 This guy, he calls himself Sargon of Akkad.
02:43:39.000 I mean, he's a nobody in the sense of not having come from, you know, an acting world or not being a public figure.
02:43:45.000 But this guy is brilliant.
02:43:46.000 He now has over 150,000 YouTube subscribers, maybe 25, 30 million viewers.
02:43:53.000 Beautiful.
02:43:53.000 That's how it should be, based on merit.
02:43:55.000 Exactly.
02:43:56.000 This guy would never have had a voice.
02:43:59.000 Exactly.
02:43:59.000 We're not for the mediums that are now afforded to us.
02:44:04.000 And so that's why I feel like a kid in a candy store to appear on all these shows because it offers me a voice to spread memes, right?
02:44:11.000 I mean, I consider my job as a meme creator, meme propagator.
02:44:16.000 And so any way that I can do that, including coming on this brilliant podcast...
02:44:20.000 I consider myself unbelievably fortunate, and I don't see why other academics don't see the value in that.
02:44:25.000 Well, I think they will eventually, and some do.
02:44:27.000 I mean, I've had quite a few on now, but I think that what we're dealing with is a new thing.
02:44:32.000 What we're dealing with is this completely new pathway for information to travel.
02:44:37.000 And it has to be kind of recognized and accepted, and it's slowly being done so.
02:44:41.000 Like, there's a sign in front of the comedy store in one of the hotels, like, you know, they paint the sign, like a billboard on the entire side of the hotel, and it's a YouTube channel that has millions of subscribers.
02:44:51.000 So this woman's YouTube channel, I've never heard of her before, but she's got millions of subscribers.
02:44:55.000 And there's a few of those that YouTube has put up all around the city, and...
02:44:59.000 What they're getting for each individual video that they put out is very similar to what a hit cable show gets.
02:45:05.000 Right.
02:45:05.000 And that's reality.
02:45:06.000 Incredible.
02:45:06.000 And you can't fuck with that.
02:45:07.000 Those are real numbers and real people that are the same kind of people that watch television.
02:45:11.000 And it's just a new pathway for information.
02:45:14.000 It just makes it harder for people to lie and bullshit.
02:45:17.000 And like that guy who wrote that article, he's just lazy.
02:45:20.000 He's lazy and his work sucks and his mind's weak.
02:45:23.000 And so he wants to come up with some way that he can turn something into some click-baity bullshit article.
02:45:29.000 So that's what he does.
02:45:30.000 He distorts reality to fit his own agenda and for his own game.
02:45:34.000 And he does so in a way that he doesn't care if it damages you because he has power over you.
02:45:39.000 Right.
02:45:40.000 But he doesn't have any power over you anymore.
02:45:41.000 No one does.
02:45:42.000 No one has any power over anyone.
02:45:43.000 And this whatever of Akhmard or whatever the fuck the guy's name.
02:45:46.000 What's his name?
02:45:46.000 Sargon of Akhmard.
02:45:47.000 Yeah.
02:45:48.000 Now he's going to get millions of you.
02:45:50.000 Good for him.
02:45:51.000 Good for him.
02:45:51.000 That's true.
02:45:51.000 Good for him.
02:45:51.000 But this guy, he got there based on merit.
02:45:54.000 Yes.
02:45:55.000 And there's a lot of those guys out there now.
02:45:57.000 And they cover a wide variety of topics, too, whether it's sports, there's martial arts There's commentators that have done that.
02:46:05.000 There's people that do that about technology.
02:46:07.000 It's just, we live in a beautiful time for information.
02:46:09.000 My nephew has 274,000 followers.
02:46:13.000 I mean, I know it's nothing compared to your numbers.
02:46:15.000 It's a lot!
02:46:15.000 But that's, I mean, that's astonishing.
02:46:16.000 Well, Ariel's on television, though.
02:46:18.000 He's on Fox all the time.
02:46:19.000 And he's a legit journalist for MMA. But yeah, it's beautiful.
02:46:23.000 But he started on the internet as well.
02:46:24.000 Exactly.
02:46:25.000 We live in a beautiful time.
02:46:26.000 We do.
02:46:27.000 And speaking of time, gotta wrap this bitch up.
02:46:29.000 Oh, nice.
02:46:30.000 Do we do any promotional stuff?
02:46:31.000 Do you want to?
02:46:32.000 What do you want to do?
02:46:33.000 They can follow me on Twitter at Gadsad.
02:46:36.000 G-A-D-S-A-A-D. They could go to my YouTube channel, which is Gadsad again.
02:46:42.000 And you have a great YouTube channel, by the way, where you sit down and you talk about a lot of things and you speak unedited in front of the camera and express yourself.
02:46:51.000 It's a wonderful way to...
02:46:51.000 So subscribe to that and they can follow me on my public page.
02:46:54.000 Glorious.
02:46:55.000 Let's do this again.
02:46:55.000 Anytime.
02:46:56.000 Thank you, sir.
02:46:57.000 Thanks for being here on my birthday, too.
02:46:58.000 Thank you, sir.
02:46:59.000 All right, ladies and gentlemen, we'll be back tomorrow.
02:47:01.000 Until then, enjoy your life.
02:47:02.000 Bye-bye.