It's been a minute and a half since we've been on the pod, but we're back. We're joined by our good friends, Edmund and Rhonda, to talk about how they met, what it's like being in the UFC, and how they ended up in this humble abode. Also, we talk about what it was like growing up in the streets of Yerevan, Armenia, and what it means to be an Armenian-American living in America. It's a very special episode and we hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoyed making it. We'll see you next week! Cheers, EJ & JP! (featuring: Edmund & Rhonda) (Music by Zapsplat) Music by Jeff Kaale (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 56, 57, 58, etc., etc. etc. We hope you enjoyed this episode. We'll be back next week with a new episode with more stories from our lives, more stories, more laughs, more memories, more fun, more laughter, more love, more lightheartedness, more realness. We love ya'll! -Eugene. -Jon Sorrentino Thank you for listening, Jon & Rana Jon and Rana. Jon & Jon <3 -Ronna & Ronna - Jon & Jamie - Ronna's music is by Jon and Jon's music by Ronna s music is also by Rana's music video . Jon's new album is out on Soundcloud Rana is out now! Jon has a new album out on the airwaves! and is available on SoundCloud! Jamie's new book is out in the worksheets! Ronna & Jon's book is available for purchase on Amazon Prime and Vaynerchuk is available in paperback and will be available on Audible can be pre-order on the App Store and Vimeo!
00:02:18.000Well, it used to be that I had this car, the Fonda was my Honda, and it had one working window and no air conditioning, so I would just sweat all the way home.
00:02:27.000So I would just put on my same, like, my clothes I came in with, no shower.
00:02:32.000I would just throw it on, still sweating, and jump in my car, because I would just sweat all the way home, that's the point.
00:02:35.000And Edmund's first word of advice was he made me shower before I got in the car.
00:02:40.000Even if I would sweat all the way home and have to shower again, that was like, you're like, I know you're a very good girl and all these things.
00:02:54.000I graduated high school, yeah, but during the classes, Armenian kids have to grow up.
00:02:59.000The parents loved it because they go to school, speak English, and the parents would bring them to the gym after school programs and they would They want their kids to speak Armenian so they won't forget where they're from.
00:03:10.000Teaching for 10 years, every day, 4 to 10, I was only speaking Armenian.
00:03:21.000He was the one, too, after I won a couple fights, he was like, maybe you should wear, get a little pretty sometime, put some makeup on, you know?
00:04:44.000You have to find these contouring things where it starts with a girl with her face plain and they do all this contour stuff to them and they're an entirely different person by the end of it.
00:04:55.000I saw this one thing, I don't know, it was on Instagram, so who knows if it was even true, that some guy sued his wife after they were married because he never saw her without makeup.
00:05:05.000And she was totally busted without it.
00:07:35.000It's not in your DNA, and so, like, your children are going to have to deal with the same issues.
00:07:39.000Like, whatever weird jaw structure thing, nose structure thing that you're going to get fixed with a doctor, are you going to get your kids snipped, too?
00:08:38.000I think that there's like a line, like, you know, if you have like a cleft lip or something like wrong with you, you know, like go, you know, go for it.
00:08:44.000But like if you're just self-conscious, you know, about something and then, you know, maybe you should just accept it that that's how you look, you know?
00:08:53.000I think the stars, if they're on TV all the time, they look pretty.
00:08:57.000Already people get used to that look, so they shouldn't be that worried about it.
00:09:00.000Also, if you're on television, that's your currency.
00:09:07.000Relinquishing any aspect of that, they think the whole reason they got there is because of their looks.
00:09:13.000There's a lot of people that believe that.
00:09:15.000Yeah, but when you're a kid, when you're in high school, you're a teenager, you're going to hate everything pretty much about yourself for a while.
00:09:22.000You know, you're like, oh God, you know, you're suddenly super self-conscious about all that.
00:09:26.000And if it's like so calm and easily accessible, people are going to end up getting so much work done when they're kids and they're just being going through that stage when, you know, you should at least wait till you're...
00:09:35.000Like, past 30 and you're like, you know, you've had a good three decades of not being happy with how that looks, then okay, fine, go for it.
00:09:41.000But if you're a teenager and you're like, oh my god, my friend Allison has big boobs and I want to get implants, like, no, don't do it.
00:11:46.000I think your happiness is supposed to be a byproduct of actually living a fulfilling life.
00:11:49.000You know, instead of just trying to, you know, if I tried to get drunk and party every day and get as happy as I possibly could every day, you know, I'm going to live a really unfulfilling life and die unhappy.
00:12:00.000But is that where happiness comes from?
00:12:02.000The reality of happiness is happiness comes, at least in my feeling, it comes from achieving goals and conquering whatever weird shit you don't like about yourself.
00:12:13.000Like whatever weird discipline issues you might have or behavior issues you might have and accomplishing goals.
00:12:20.000Like there's something about setting goals, working hard on something and accomplishing those things that creates a real happiness.
00:12:26.000The other kind of happiness comes from family and friends and loved ones.
00:12:32.000Well, I mean, I think it's also about not being selfish and thinking about your kids, too, because we could all be as happy as possible.
00:12:39.000You know, this generation, burn every resource we have, and all of our kids are going to starve, you know, in some post-apocalyptic world because everybody before him was just trying to be happy, you know?
00:12:49.000Like, that's not really a good way to live, either.
00:12:53.000You know, I want to know that my kids are going to be all right, and they're growing up in a better world than I did.
00:12:58.000That's going to make me happier than knowing that I had a great time.
00:13:42.000Just talking to her, you go, this is a powerful woman.
00:13:45.000I used to think I was so laid back and chill, and my mom was just really intense, and then I realized just in comparison to her, I was really laid back and chill, and I'm actually pretty intense.
00:14:04.000Hang out with my mom and be like, whoa.
00:14:05.000I'm like, I don't know how you are as chill as you are.
00:14:08.000The standards were set so high in your house that just being, like, what you thought was chill in your house, everybody else was like, whoa!
00:14:14.000Yeah, I mean, like, I was, like, the black sheep loser in my house for, like, a long time.
00:14:42.000Yeah, yeah, when you were a kid, but you know what?
00:14:45.000Now I'm happy for it, because now I'm in high-pressure situations all the time, and I can totally deal with it.
00:14:49.000I mean, now I'm live on the Joe Rogan Experience, and I'm sure my heart rate is perfectly fine.
00:14:53.000Well, this is a very low-pressure situation compared to Brazil.
00:14:56.000Well, I'm sure some people listening right now, if they got on, you know, they'd have a hard time relaxing.
00:15:01.000Like, my first time that I came on your show, I was a little bit, like, amped up, because I would watch it all the time, and I was a fan.
00:15:06.000Like, I would go to training, I would come home, and I would make, you know, I got to the point where I could afford Trader Joe's at that point.
00:15:11.000So I was like, made myself a little sandwich at Trader Joe's and I would like sit and eat my sandwich and listen to you every day.
00:15:17.000Well, if I remember correctly, we might have been medicated at the time as well.
00:15:21.000There might have been some plant burning going on.
00:15:26.000Speaking of Brazil, that experience, to me, that was one of the strangest experiences of all my years of calling fights.
00:15:35.000It was one of the strangest experiences because it had sort of transcended just fighting.
00:15:40.000It had gotten into this weird cultural place.
00:15:44.000First of all, when we went there, it was the first time I sat in the audience for a weigh-in.
00:15:49.000I never sat in the audience for a weigh-in before.
00:15:51.000But when we got there, they had some dude that was a Brazilian guy that was going to do the weigh-ins because they wanted it to be in Portuguese.
00:15:58.000So I sat down in the front row and I got to watch.
00:16:01.000And one of the freakiest things about it was it was the first time ever, out of all the fights that I've ever called in Brazil, where the Brazilian got booed and the American got cheered.
00:16:11.000And I was like, we've hit some weird tipping point here.
00:17:26.000So then we get there and he's like wearing like these pink shirts and he was outside and we were leaving the bus and being like, you know, fuck you!
00:19:59.000When you walked around the cage after you knocked her out, it was one of...
00:20:05.000I've seen guys win before, I've seen women win before, I've seen people win before, but I never saw anybody soak it all in the way you did when you walked around.
00:20:14.000When she face-planted, you said, don't cry, and then you walked around like you strutted.
00:20:36.000Because usually it's just like, okay, I beat the person and then I have to not say anything stupid and then I have to drug test and do my medicals and then I have to do press conference and don't say anything stupid again.
00:20:43.000And then I can eat something and relax.
00:20:45.000And that was the first time I took, like, a moment to just, like, look at it.
00:20:49.000I think she was probably thinking, I wish I fucked her up one more time right now.
00:21:20.000There was so much emotion attached to that because the shit that she had said about suicide and connecting to your father and all that shit.
00:21:28.000And, you know, and knowing you as long as I've had and having daughters and...
00:22:30.000The whole thing was such a strange moment.
00:22:34.000There was a feeling in the air, and there was a recognition of what was happening that was very different for me than any other fight that I've ever called before.
00:22:43.000I think people just are starting to recognize how solid she is as a human being, Ronda.
00:22:49.000Every opponent she's faced, she keeps it very real, very intelligent, very professional, how an athlete should carry themselves, a person should carry themselves.
00:23:31.000She said that she put her forehead on our first weigh-in and I pushed her back and she said the commission should fine me for head-butting her.
00:23:48.000And every opponent, how respectful she was against Kat, you know, even on the floor when the submitter said, you know, I'll give you another chance.
00:24:01.000Everybody I think now after 10 fights, you know, 12 fights, 13 fights, they're starting to realize that.
00:24:07.000Well, I don't think we're really, like, I don't even think I'm going to really know what is going on right now or realize what is going on right now until afterward, you know, until it's all done.
00:24:18.000And I can just try to do the best that I can in the moment, but I don't really think that any of us really comprehend what's going on right now until we're looking at it in hindsight.
00:24:27.000And that's the kind of thing I think is kind of funny.
00:24:30.000There's so many people that just live to hate me, but when I'm gone, they're going to miss me.
00:26:00.000Disingenuous gesture for her to offer a handshake, because she never would have offered a handshake if she wasn't being watched by millions of people.
00:26:07.000And I wouldn't have shook her hand if we were alone in the room or we had millions of people watching.
00:26:12.000And the fact that I'm not going to play to the crowd, it would have been so easy to shake her hand and have everybody cheer, but I felt like it would have been dishonest and, you know, Honesty pays,
00:26:28.000but it pays very slowly, and it doesn't pay very consistently.
00:26:32.000Do you think that she was being honest when she shook her hand?
00:26:35.000Is it possible that she was being honest when she went to shake your hand?
00:26:38.000Is it possible that all the anxiety and all the animosity that she had went away when you guys fought?
00:28:00.000There's no way that that was a coincidence.
00:28:02.000So he was signed with another promoter?
00:28:05.000I think he had a contract, but he hadn't fought in so long.
00:28:10.000The contract was supposed to default if they hadn't had him fight within that amount of time, so he was out of it.
00:28:15.000But it was some sort of messy contract situation or whatever.
00:28:18.000But he mentioned it to the other kids and It got back to their team and they called and set this up so that they would call right at the exact time he's about to go out and try to get Chris Beale pulled out.
00:28:34.000Or at least mess with him enough to like have him not be fresh when he went in.
00:28:38.000And so you're pretty sure that that was Misha's doing?
00:28:56.000And just not keeping it real, you know, we had Dana come in and say, just leave, you know, promise me that everything will be normal and you guys won't be acting up anymore, this and that.
00:29:24.000And the thing is, I could give them my number, they could always see me anywhere in the street, you know, and I told them that, you know, there's too many cameras.
00:29:32.000Don't act like a little bitch in front of cameras.
00:29:34.000You know, you guys could do that because, you know, Ronda doesn't want me to step out of line and kick your fucking ass right there.
00:29:39.000They're going to take me out of there and, you know, I got to do this for all those kids, you know.
00:29:44.000They don't understand shit like that so when a person doesn't sometimes you can't fucking That's the thing like if someone is like been purposely like trying to like Backhand and work against you do really really shady shit and then try to like play sweetheart to everybody else And then they try to play sweetheart again.
00:29:59.000I'm not gonna trust you at all Why would you expect that and why it would be insults all the people that I love that you Insulted to shake your hand without an apology to them anyway Did you like doing that show because it seemed like you hated it?
00:30:12.000It was one of the worst experiences I've ever, like, had to deal with.
00:30:34.000The fact that I needed to be there for these kids so they would treat us however they wanted and I just felt like I'd never felt like that disrespected in my whole life and I had to sit and take it every day and I had to watch people that I really love and care about get disrespected every day and that was really hard that they were like putting up with it every day because of me and I just felt really really responsible for for everything but um I'm not even supposed to go on about it anymore.
00:31:03.000I get in trouble every time that I talk shit about the Ultimate Fighter.
00:31:53.000Prioritize my perception and image above everything and everyone and every moral that I have, or I could try and do the right thing and be honest and have people hate me for it sometimes.
00:32:11.000But then whenever you have cameras and sometimes you show something and don't show the other, then they might, you know, people might think, what the hell just happened?
00:32:19.000Like my situation with Dennis Holman, that guy's looking at me in the parking lot He's looking at me.
00:32:41.000I don't even want to talk about it anymore.
00:32:42.000Yeah, and then he comes, and then when I go at him, because he fucking gets on my nerves, and then there's the cameras, all kinds of bullshit.
00:32:48.000Well, those reality shows are very problematic when they edit things, and they also like to edit things out of context, so they'll take the reaction to something else and put it onto one thing.
00:33:16.000And all the different interactions you have, they just do their best to make it entertaining.
00:33:20.000But there's this one moment where you guys, one of the coach's challenges, where you beat her and you're hanging from a rope and you go, fuck you!
00:33:29.000And I was like, God damn, that girl's fire burns hot.
00:33:48.000And the fact that she didn't give a shit that that money would have meant a lot to her kids and they all lost it because she didn't, you know?
00:33:54.000Like, the fact that it didn't affect her at all, I was like, you don't give a fuck about them.
00:34:54.000That's what they used to say about her.
00:34:57.000Like, her old teammates tell me, like, yeah, she would walk onto the mat, and she'd be pissed off, and she'd throw the curl, and she'd beat the crowd at the armbar, and then walk off still pissed off.
00:36:11.000But Jennifer did end up, she said she'd never come to a fight again, but she came to Brazil because I was like, I'll take you guys all resorting after if you come.
00:36:17.000I kind of like baited them into it, you know?
00:37:17.000Even your perspective, like what you said about you don't even know what the fuck's going on while it's happening because it's going to take until it's over for you to look back and kind of understand it.
00:37:29.000That's a very uniquely honest and perceptive view of what you're going through.
00:37:35.000Well, I mean, I noticed a lot of these girls, like, they would like to win a UFC belt and have that respect, but they're not about that life.
00:37:54.000They want one thing without the other, but it all comes together.
00:37:58.000And that's, I think, one thing that's kind of working against them is when they actually come in to fight me, they get a taste, like a small taste of what that life is going to be like when they're a contender.
00:38:09.000Because it is like way more attention, way more this, way more that, way more that.
00:38:12.000And once you win the belt, it's just doubled every single time.
00:38:41.000The media obligations alone, which is something nobody considers.
00:38:44.000But if you go on YouTube or you go on the internet and look at all the different interviews that you do up to a fight, or any of the world champions do up to a fight, it's fucking staggering.
00:38:55.000I mean, you guys are constantly on the radio, constantly sitting down and doing TV interviews, constantly.
00:39:02.000There's articles in Rolling Stone and in fucking all these different magazines.
00:39:06.000Even scheduling today was kind of a clusterfuck.
00:39:54.000He actually forced me to relax after this last camp, because usually I'm, like, back in the gym, like, two days after, because I just don't know what to do with myself.
00:40:01.000And he, like, forced me to have 20 days off this time.
00:41:57.000It's easy to trust him because he's told you a couple of times before the fight, remember with McMahon, he said it was going to be a lever shot.
00:42:05.000And with Davis, he's like, it's going to be an overhand right.
00:43:09.000We can't talk about that, how high level it is.
00:43:13.000Boxing, you know, she doesn't have any amateur boxing fights or amateur kickboxing fights, anything like that.
00:43:18.000So to get it, I would get great sparring partners for her in the gym.
00:43:22.000And in the gym, when I get the great sparring partners, I see Rhonda Knocking out people from the liver shot, maybe 20-30 people for training camp.
00:43:32.000Those girls are hired sparring partners, they get paid so, you know, or some of them are her sparring partners in the gym where I, you know, help them and I train them and I, you know, she knows, never charge them.
00:43:43.000I work with them, you know, so I could build them, give them what they need to be a champion and she drops all those people in the gym.
00:43:52.000Of course she's going to do it during the fight.
00:44:33.000I remember these pictures of like, yeah, me, you, and Manny were all at the gym at like 1 o'clock in the morning because we all went to dinner and we were so like amped up talking about fighting.
00:44:41.000We were like, fuck it, let's go right now!
00:45:28.000What the fuck is going on in your gym?
00:45:31.000Because your striking has accelerated in these giant jumps.
00:45:36.000Like every three or four months when I watch like you hit mitts, I'm like, what the fuck are they doing?
00:45:43.000You don't see that kind of results from other fighters.
00:45:47.000There's these giant leaps from the, if you go back to like, I saw you guys hitting mitts before the Liz Karmouche fight, and you go back to before the Betch-Cohea fight, you're like, fucking, they're so different.
00:46:02.000You're only talking about a few years, but there's a difference between like, Someone who's like, you know, got a decent understanding of how to throw punches to someone who looks like a fucking world champion kickboxer.
00:46:17.000Right now, you know, there's a few females out there, you know, no disrespect, that are in the Olympic Games, that won Olympic gold medal I even told Rhonda about.
00:47:14.000I've seen the work you've done with Ellenberger and with Travis.
00:47:17.000In Ellenberger, there was a big difference between the way he was throwing punches and the way he was moving after he started working with you.
00:47:24.000I could tell the way you coach her and the way you coach fighters.
00:47:51.000I think it's a mix between how I was raised and never winning the Olympics.
00:47:57.000That's like the best thing that's ever happened to me because now it's unlimited motivation forever because it's never going to be satiated.
00:48:16.000That was like my obsession, you know, and I went when I was 17 and It didn't go my way and then when I was 21 like I was so unhappy doing judo that I felt like that was like my last shot.
00:48:35.000because just It got to a point where it's very old school kind of training where it's drilled into your head that you have to make yourself absolutely miserable in order to deserve to win.
00:48:47.000And so it was just like I was miserable all the time.
00:48:50.000Why do you have to make yourself miserable?
00:48:59.000I've recovered so much since coming to MMA. I was about to retire just because my knee was so bad in Judo.
00:49:07.000Because I could barely walk some days.
00:49:09.000I would wake up in the morning and it would take me 20 minutes to maneuver my knee enough so I could bend it again because it would lock in place in the middle of the night.
00:49:22.000There was some of them that were cool, but mostly I had no control over who I lived with or who I was around all day long.
00:49:30.000And so if you're around people that you don't really like constantly, you know, it's just kind of like you're always watching what you say and always looking over your shoulder.
00:49:47.000And like from when I was a kid, from I think from I don't know, 2003 to 2006, 2002 to 2006, I cried every single practice and would lock myself in the locker room and cry for another half hour afterward.
00:50:06.000And it was only like when I got older that I was able to shake myself from not crying during training because if it didn't go exactly my way, like if I had, if I got thrown once, you know, by someone who was 50 pounds heavier than me with five years more experience, I would still cry about it.
00:50:21.000And like I wouldn't, then I'd be embarrassed that I was crying and I would cry because I was embarrassed because I couldn't stop myself from crying and like it would just keep going.
00:50:33.000That's how Manny and all of them knew me when I was a kid.
00:50:36.000My mom would bring me in there just to get beat up because they were really tough guys.
00:50:40.000She would bring me to four or five different gyms a week to get all the different styles.
00:50:45.000They would beat up on me and I would get thrown once.
00:50:47.000First time I get thrown, immediately start crying, then get embarrassed, cry more.
00:54:01.000At the National Training Center there, where they couldn't coach me, but I was beating their girls, so they were like, yeah, well, come here, and they'll get used to you, and whatever, so I was just kind of like a body for them.
00:54:11.000And I was pretty much on my own, training on my own, with no direction and no coaching, and I was like...
00:54:15.000They couldn't coach you because you were a United States citizen?
00:54:22.000I was just like so stubborn and not getting enough respect that I felt like I was gonna go win with nobody's help and then ended up getting asked back to one of the gyms I was kicked out of when I was a kid.
00:55:14.000But my elbow, like, dislocated right away.
00:55:15.000So this 18-year-old little me, my brain is going, and I'm like, well, I was about to turn 18. I was like, yeah, almost there.
00:55:22.000I'm like, well, my elbow's already out, you know, so I might as well just try to get out, right?
00:55:27.000And so I try to get out, and my elbow goes back in, and then she pops out again, and I'm thinking, like, well, she already popped it out twice.
00:55:36.000I ended up getting out and ran the clock out and I won the match.
00:55:39.000But then immediately right after, I fought this chick, Lucy DeCasse, who was a world Olympic champion from France, and I couldn't even lift my arm from my side.
00:55:50.000I had to pick my hand up to pull it up to my side to fight.
00:55:55.000And then I lost to her, and then I fought this German girl next, and I still couldn't even lift my hand up.
00:56:01.000And I would, like, bring my hand up, and I ended up winning that fight against a German girl.
00:56:03.000And then I ended up fighting Erske Zolnir, who's a World Olympic bronze medalist.
00:56:07.000And it was a closer fight, but I lost.
00:56:12.000And I was talking to my, like, first boyfriend at the time, which was, like...
00:56:19.000You know, I never had a date, never had a partner, nothing in high school, right?
00:56:22.000And so, like, I'm a 17-year-old girl about to be 18, and this guy in his 20s that's, like, on the national team, like, has a thing for me, you know what I mean?
00:56:31.000Like, I thought, like, I was so cool because, like, I was talking to this guy, and of course, you know, my mom and my coaches were totally against it, and they were like, you're not allowed to talk to him, da-da-da-da, and, you know, of course I would talk to him anyway.
00:56:43.000And so we were seeing each other for a while.
00:56:46.000I ended up seeing this guy for, like, two years, actually.
00:56:50.000But I went back to the hotel and was like, screw this, I hate you!
00:56:54.000And then, so I went back and I was hanging out with him.
00:56:58.000And then my coach went down to the lobby, got the key from my room, and came up and walked into the room with me and this guy.
00:57:05.000Freaked out, lost his mind, says, you're out, you're gone, I'm done with you, you're out of the gym, you're out of everything.
00:57:11.000I'll never want to see your face again, all that stuff.
00:57:13.000Just because you're having fun with a guy?
00:58:16.000And then I went home and my mom's like, you know, you're not going to do judo for a year and you better forget the name of whatever his name was and you're going to work and you're going to support yourself and you're going to pay me this amount of money to live in my house.
00:58:28.000And I'm thinking, I'm like, well, I want to do judo and if I want to work...
00:58:31.000I'm going to go pay for my rent wherever I want.
00:58:57.000Yeah, and like in the middle of the night, like I secretly packed my bags and all this stuff and like I waited until like 2 o'clock in the morning or whatever to like walk several blocks away from the house and then call the taxi several blocks away from the house and then took the taxi to the airport.
01:01:00.000This wooden kind of training in Japan or like in the winter where they'd open all the windows and there'd be frost on the mats and they would purposely make you freezing cold while you train, which is terrible for you.
01:01:09.000But it would be like, you know, old school mentality, mental toughness, you know, that kind of stuff.
01:01:13.000And they would always do like more is more for them.
01:01:38.000I used to get weight every Tuesday, and then I would not drink any water after Monday practice, and I wouldn't eat dinner to try and be lighter, and I would still be too heavy.
01:01:48.000And then, you know, then I would eat all the Tuesday.
01:01:51.000That's got to fuck with you and give you body image issues when you're young and someone's telling you you're too heavy and they're yelling at you about that.
01:02:16.000That's why, like, I'm so big into, like, doing, like, body image stuff and, like, the Do Nothing Bitch, like, shirts, they all went to D.D. Hirsch, which is, um, it's, like, free, like, mental, like, mental health clinic that's, like, 52 different schools around L.A. that helps girls with, you know, body image and eating disorders and suicidal,
01:02:32.000like, all these different things to, like, to give, like, those kids treatment because I didn't have anyone to talk to.
01:02:38.000I didn't even really know that I had that much of a problem.
01:03:22.000I think when you're in a developmental phase, it's a good thing to be overtrained a little bit and be made uncomfortable and, you know, to have to run laps when your foot's broken.
01:03:32.000Yeah, but when you're at a professional level and this is the time you need to perform, whatever personality you've developed is already developed by now, then it's time to train professionally.
01:03:44.000Like we've had situations and sparring sessions like if one of my guys or anybody gets caught with a punch you know they take a knee I relax you know there's always another day you don't need that extra punishment to the head it's not healthy for you right some people don't understand that they push their fighters They get dropped and it's happened to,
01:04:02.000you know, even with Champ, her opponent gets dropped and they keep on pushing.
01:04:10.000You know, you have to know where to push, how to push.
01:04:13.000But she's absolutely right about young age.
01:04:15.000Sometimes you want to create that personality, not giving up.
01:04:17.000And the only way to do it is you got to Be a little bit old-school and hard on them, you know, and she's had that but now it's she has that you do it more professional more structured better, you know Sparring is the right way sparring partners.
01:04:32.000Everything is done for her and she loves it.
01:04:34.000That's why she loves it That's why she says she didn't like that and now she loves this.
01:04:37.000Yeah that grind the Determination that you developed from that grind is like irreplaceable.
01:04:42.000Yeah But once you have it, for you is it a matter of just like keeping the sword sharp?
01:04:47.000What keeps your motivation high at this point?
01:04:52.000Well, I don't know, it just seems like unfinished.
01:05:41.000I'll probably go a little longer waiting for her, but if she showed up sooner rather than later, I don't know how much longer I would go after that.
01:05:50.000Well, she seems to want you to fight her at a heavier weight, which is very fascinating to me.
01:05:56.000Because, you know, she knows that you're the 135-pound champ, and she wants, and she knows you fought at 145 before, so she wants you to fight where she is.
01:06:07.000The thing is, someone who uses steroids and those kind of things, they need that to mentally think that they have an advantage that they didn't earn.
01:06:56.000Like, if you can make weight and be on steroids, even if it's a relatively making weight-friendly steroid, you're still, like, Without it, you're capable of moving down.
01:07:08.000You see what happens to people when they get off of steroids.
01:07:22.000It's a fascinating time when you see these guys that were on TRT or the people that were involved in the urine testing, which was like they would say is basically an intelligence test.
01:07:33.000If you test after your fight and you're on steroids, you're a fucking idiot.
01:10:50.000And to see, I mean, men can put that kind of size on through power lifting and hard weight, but to see a woman put that kind of size on, that kind of thickness.
01:14:19.000They've used it in cycling for years, where you take your blood out, your body replenishes the blood, and you put that blood back in right before you fight.
01:14:25.000I know that people have done that before.
01:14:27.000What's shocking to me is that the UFC and Nevada State Athletic Commission, just a few years ago, wasn't even testing for EPO. It wasn't that long ago.
01:16:31.000This is an issue that people get when they have IVs for some reason.
01:16:36.000Your body just reacts in some sort of a strange way with the water.
01:16:41.000I don't know but I just remember I got chills like I couldn't stop myself from shivering and like I was really really slow and sluggish and I absolutely hated it.
01:19:26.000I think there should be a 225 for sure.
01:19:29.000What you're saying is it's too much of a difference when they go down so low, then they want to gain it.
01:19:33.000The only way is to stick an IV in there so you can gain that weight quicker.
01:19:38.000But I think 24 hours is enough for you.
01:19:40.000If you could raise your hand and drink water, I think IV is for people that when they're sick and, you know, they're throwing up and they can't, like, move, they're exhausted, you, you know, stick a needle in there so they could recover.
01:19:57.000But if you're having a terrible weight cut and you're really worried about this fight, it really helps put your mind at ease if you think, oh, no, no, it's fine.
01:20:05.000I'll have an IV and it's like the magical cure and it's like this bad weight cut never happened.
01:20:10.000Well, they do think that it's the better way to replenish the fluid in the brain.
01:20:15.000But it still takes 70-something hours to fully replenish it.
01:20:19.000And then the guys that use it, what I notice is when they're warming up in the locker room, like I see them during training, right?
01:20:24.000So I know how there's people that sweat more than the others, so you know the athlete.
01:20:29.000But the guys that use it, right in the locker room when they're starting to warm up, they're sweating.
01:20:33.000You see that the body is not crisp and sharp.
01:21:13.000It does it that way because it's best for it, not because, you know, it's suddenly just, you know, while it was evolving, it was like, eh, this is the best I could do.
01:21:20.000Well, your body doesn't understand dehydrating and then 24 hours later going into a hand-to-hand combat situation.
01:21:26.000No, but it understands that, like, you know, you're living in Africa and there's not that much water and, you know, there could only be one day of rain and, you know, it could all dry up the next day and you need to drink as much as possible and then you're shit out of luck out of water for a while.
01:21:40.000You know, these kind of situations happen for many, many, many years and why do we only rehydrate as fast as we do?
01:21:48.000Nature never developed an IV, that's why.
01:22:09.000You know, Weidman's well over 200 pounds, gets down to 185. I think during the training, if they do the training right and they see where he's sharp at, how they could deal with it, you know, if you're mentally tough, you could gradually just drink throughout the day.
01:25:10.000You need to know what you're doing at what time.
01:25:12.000To play devil's advocate, though, Rafael Dos Anjos in his last fight against Anthony Pettis, he pushed them all in the most ferocious paces I've ever seen for a five-round fight.
01:25:22.000And he went through an extensive strength and conditioning program with Nick Kurson, one of the guys who was a disciple of Marv Marinovich.
01:25:29.000And I had Kurson on the podcast explaining to me all the different stuff they had to do, a lot of plyos, a lot of explosive drills.
01:25:34.000That's different than lifting, though.
01:25:40.000Yeah, a lot of people think that lifting, in fact, slows you down and provides you with an unnatural workload on your muscles, which fucks you up in training.
01:25:50.000Because, like, if you do bench press all the time, like, your chest is all fucked up and sore, so that way when you're training, you're going to have this issue.
01:26:05.000Dos Anjos did an absolutely great job.
01:26:07.000He was physically amazingly fit, and I know the guy you're talking about.
01:26:11.000He did a hell of a job, but it's the training also.
01:26:14.000Rafael Cordero did an amazing job with his tactical approach to it.
01:26:18.000There is all of it combined, but he knew that he needs to win that fight, not only with the tactical aspect of it, with the physical ability, with the conditioning.
01:27:52.000Pretty much the lightest that I could get without, you know.
01:27:55.000I can't lose any more fat when I'm at like 43. And then like the last like eight pounds has to be water because that's just you know I just can't get any smaller than that.
01:28:05.000That's when you get like super lean like right before the weigh-ins and If you have you ever Consider I mean, what do you think about the idea of fighters not cutting any weight at all?
01:28:16.000I mean it seems to be Almost unnecessary evil at this stage of the game, but I really wish it weren't.
01:28:23.000And I really would like to see fighters just fight at whatever is the healthiest weight for them.
01:28:28.000I feel like I'm actually in my best shape and the best fighter that I possibly can be if I make 35 and then go back up to like 47, 48 the next day.
01:28:39.000Why would that be better than if you fought at 148?
01:28:42.000If you just felt like you just didn't cut any weight at all?
01:28:44.000Because I have to be so much more disciplined.
01:29:40.000After all that work and all that perfect food and perfect training and perfect peaking and it's all done and it's all been fine-tuned so I could be the best that is physically possible for a human form to be for this 24-hour period that I have.
01:30:41.000What was it like when you guys first started working together?
01:30:45.000I mean she was describing it like you knew that she was a judo player and she was getting into MMA like what was like the first couple of training sessions like?
01:30:55.000When she came in I didn't want to train her because I had my hands full and I had you know I was working with all of them and I was like, what is this girl doing?
01:31:07.000You know, what is she going to do with this?
01:31:12.000I like to wait until it's the right time.
01:31:14.000Timing, I feel like for me, is the most important thing that I've learned throughout my career.
01:31:18.000You know, I opened up a gym when I was 16 years old.
01:31:22.000And doing all this I learned that patience sometimes and timing is very important because in my life I went through a lot of hard days because I was a kid myself didn't understand what I'm getting into and I've been through a lot of tough days so I like to stay patient and just watch and see figure out what the person wants to do with their life and then I could guide them if I can I will if I can't I'll give them A pointer you know you could do it better with this person or you do it this way and some listen and some don't we know that.
01:31:51.000I figured that out right away because within the three four months she was in my gym I would tell her go stay on the bag and she would go hit the bag and really hit the bag until I paid attention to her again.
01:32:01.000She would have a lot of patience and she would be understanding and she would work very hard but after like three four months being in the gym I gave her maybe a few pointers and then When they called me, they called me literally the day that they got her an amateur fight.
01:32:17.000So the manager called me and was like, hey, we got a fight for Ronda.
01:32:54.000And then I was like, You know, she's gonna kick you, doesn't matter, kick, punch, whatever comes, just keep your hands up high and let's just step forward right away, you know, break the distance and get inside a clinch and do what you're best at.
01:33:05.000And right when I told her that, her focus, the way she looked at me and, you know, I knew that she was a fighter, but I was like, let her get in there first, you know, let me, till I see this girl, yeah, so I could see it.
01:33:18.000Speed, power, explosiveness, without even having that top level of training.
01:33:25.000The way she did it, I knew she was a real athlete, real fighter.
01:33:27.000So I was coming back and I text the manager, I was like, give me the name and last name of this girl, spell it out for me.
01:34:34.000Because right away I knew that, hey, USA Judo, you know, it's amazing what Anna Marie did with Ronda Rousey.
01:34:40.000It's phenomenal being in this country with judo not being such a strong sport in the United States and all the gyms she took her to and all that guidance made her into something special.
01:34:54.000But I said it could be done, you know, boxing and in U.S. boxing is huge and I said if we train With that concept and keeper judo, this girl is going to be unreal.
01:35:34.000Even though, yeah, we already had her blow up and he was spending, oh my god, I would go home every night.
01:35:40.000I would go home every night and I would be like, he's still, you know, I'm there and I ask him and he's just like, you know, I don't know, he's paying hard to get or like, what is this?
01:35:50.000He's like paying all attention to all these other people almost intentionally just rubbing my face and he's not paying attention to me and like, oh my god.
01:36:45.000It was like 8.30 to 10. They had a workout.
01:36:48.000But I left early at 9.30 so that I could get to the gym in time at 10 to be able to be there to bug Edmund into holding events for me because he wouldn't.
01:36:57.000He still hadn't at that point, but every day I would ask, can he hold it to me?
01:39:35.000Yeah, if I, like, had to go anywhere, you know, like, in the evening, I wasn't gonna let her, like, die of heat stroke or anything.
01:39:40.000If it was, like, the weather was fine, she would come with me everywhere.
01:39:42.000And then, like, I had a basket system in my car where I had, like, I would just bring my basket of, like, clean clothes and put it next to an empty basket.
01:39:49.000And then after training, I would put all the other clothes and all the dirty clothes in one basket.
01:39:53.000And then when the clean clothes basket was empty, I would wash the other one and, like, had this rotating basket thing.
01:39:59.000My dog is just obsessed with the smell of my vagina.
01:40:04.000I don't know why, but she would just go through all of it.
01:40:07.000Whenever she was in the back, she would rip all of the dirty clothes out, put them all over the chair, just rub my old sweaty underwear that had been sitting there all over her face.
01:40:16.000It was her favorite thing in the world.
01:40:19.000Just sweaty pants and underwear and bras everywhere and dog hair and all that stuff.
01:42:06.000Like, she sees a lot of athletes come right now to my gym even.
01:42:09.000I try to help them, guide them, you know.
01:42:11.000I never think about, she knows about finances or will they become something special.
01:42:16.000I want to help all of them out, you know, but...
01:42:19.000At a point in life, you know, you have to make sacrifices and understand what you're doing.
01:42:24.000It's a very fascinating position to be a coach because a coach relies a hundred percent on having a quality student.
01:42:32.000If you're a great coach and you're around people that don't give a fuck and don't train hard, don't care, your knowledge is like, it doesn't ever get to them.
01:42:42.000It doesn't ever get out there, and no one can ever see what you're truly good at.
01:42:45.000You and I had this conversation once after a fight, and you were saying that all my years of training fighters, who would have ever thought that it would be this woman that would be, like, the greatest student?
01:43:28.000You're the striking coach then, but you're her overall coach?
01:43:32.000Yes, I give the whole program, and I say when we're grappling, when we're using her judo, Know when to use the judo, like speed week, when to bring in those sparring partners, what kind of sparring partners, how many days a week she does her strength and conditioning or sparrings,
01:44:16.000I know her mentally, what she needs to do to be dominant, you know?
01:44:20.000So sometimes people that don't have so much experience, they will work on certain things during certain time of the training camp that it's unnecessary to work on that.
01:44:30.000You know, because you could do that at times that when she's off, she doesn't have a training camp.
01:45:25.000You know, if you watch Liz's fight, short, stocky girl throwing hard short shots, the way she maneuvers and uses that jab, gets under that elbow, it's beautiful.
01:45:37.000For you, was it a difficult transition becoming an MMA coach, like being in a situation where...
01:45:43.000No, because I was, people don't know, I did, I have like 40 professional Muay Thai fights.
01:45:48.000You know, after doing Muay Thai, I did shoot boxing.
01:45:53.000I did Taekwondo matches, all those international, Jimmy Keem, all those fights.
01:45:58.000So I have experience in all kinds of martial arts, but then fell in love with boxing, you know, polished my hands and, you know, trained with the best.
01:46:06.000And putting it all together, it's not.
01:47:57.000Because there has been choices she's made or said, hey, coach, you know, we should go work with Henner and Hiron, you know, because just to understand their tactical approach to fighting where they're on their back, I will never lie down on my back.
01:48:13.000Because in the beginning it was like he did all the striking and I was all of the grappling.
01:48:19.000So I didn't have a jiu-jitsu or wrestling or judo coach for years.
01:48:25.000And then I brought Martin Berberian, which is an Olympic, three-time Olympian, bronze medalist.
01:48:30.000So we added, like I added one, she added Henra and Hirona and she was like just for me to understand the approach.
01:48:39.000And then now, when we go, she understands that when they're on their back and being passive, judokai is not going to lie down on their back.
01:48:53.000Let's go to them, and we'll do it once a week, twice a week, so you could understand their approach to grappling, and then we'll know how to take advantage of that.
01:49:16.000The leg lock game in grappling has changed so much over the last few years.
01:49:21.000Everybody's attacking with leg locks, using leg locks for sweeps, using leg locks to establish other transitions.
01:49:27.000Yeah, but leg locks, when you bring striking into it, It's very different because it's very risky in that when you go for a leg lock, if it doesn't work out, you lose position.
01:49:36.000And I may have to think a lot more about risk.
01:49:39.000And that's why I feel like arm bars work so well is because if it doesn't work out, I'm still on top.
01:50:22.000He just competed in Abu Dhabi and he was talking about...
01:50:26.000Bringing leg locks to MMA and that you are seeing many more leg locks in MMA now because guys are learning the like at the highest level that the transitions it's like a lot of times we have these looks at things we go well that's not gonna work because of this and people might have said that about all sorts of different aspects of MMA before someone came along and figured out a way to do it successfully I'm not discounting like leg locks at all I'm just saying they're risky and then again it's the ability of the fighter What ability do you have?
01:50:57.000Like when she does with Henor and Hiron, you know, during training camp, she's not gonna, one month before the fight, lie down on her back and try to do triangles.
01:51:08.000So we need to be dominant in certain areas.
01:51:10.000Do you train those things, like, do you learn, like, specific skills outside of a training camp?
01:51:16.000So, like, when the training camp's over, you know, you knock out Betch-Cohea and you go, ah, I'd like to learn how to do this, or I'd like to add a little bit of that to my game.
01:51:25.000Yeah, yeah, you just do, you learn stuff without a particular direction when you're outside of camp, and camp is what directs it towards something specific.
01:51:33.000But is it crazy because MMA, there's so many skills, there's so many things you can adhere to, or so many styles you can...
01:51:39.000It's like you kind of figure out where to focus your thing.
01:51:42.000And you're focusing your thing on boxing, your judo, and your armbar.
01:51:47.000And because of that, you've been so successful.
01:51:50.000Because everything is just razor sharp.
01:52:11.000But if she does that right now, when we're just starting off and quick explosive throws, her body is not ready, like you were saying about strength and conditioning.
01:52:19.000People do that so they could prevent injuries, right?
01:52:21.000For you not to have your joints hurting, this and that.
01:52:29.000When you're fighting, you have to do what's...
01:52:31.000The best of your ability to get the W. It's about the W. People make the mistake of trying to memorize certain things, like separate things that are completely disjointed and not related, as opposed to memorizing concepts.
01:52:46.000When I'm grappling, I probably make up 15 different moves a night that I've never done before, just off the top of my head because it makes sense right there.
01:52:55.000Because you know the concept and now that you're in an unusual position, you just apply the concept to that position.
01:53:08.000I'm not gonna memorize a leg lock and then memorize a spinning back elbow and then memorize a push kick and memorize, you know, something else that's completely a Superman punch.
01:53:20.000Like, they're completely all over the place and they have nothing to do with each other.
01:53:24.000Why am I spending so many hours of my day on all these different things that they're not connected to each other?
01:53:29.000And so I spend a lot of my time Connecting things as opposed to trying to learn individual things that don't have anything to do with the other.
01:53:49.000She's controlling you and she's building that framework in her mind of always knowing what to do.
01:53:54.000It's the most important thing in boxing and fighting in general.
01:53:57.000You can't be in the middle of the octagon, walk 10 steps and hit your back on the cage and then expect to learn a superman punch and become something special.
01:54:08.000You've got to learn ring generalship first.
01:54:12.000People just, you know, know it, have an idea, and there's coaches out there that think, oh, they could show a fancy jumping kick or a punch or whatever it is, or a throw, and become something special with that.
01:54:24.000Positioning is so critical in grappling, but it's just as critical in striking.
01:54:28.000It's just as critical in movement, just as critical in being in a position where the person literally doesn't have the leverage to hit you correctly.
01:55:54.000So I knew I could do whatever kind of bullshit throw in the world.
01:55:57.000Even if I could be on the bottom, it's still going to work right then because she's not there.
01:56:01.000And the idea in that fight, the structure of the fight that he put out is you're going to break her first standing, and then the submission will be easier because they're going to be so focused on the submission You have to get their minds somewhere else before you go for it.
01:56:13.000And so at that point, I knew that she wasn't there because you have to have a feel for the other person and know them very well.
01:56:23.000You know that if they're breathing differently, you know where their mind is at.
01:56:26.000And that's the time I can do the shittiest sumigaiishi that you've ever seen and be straight on the bottom and know that I'm going to finish her from there because she's not defensively there at all.
01:56:35.000When you're looking at your future right now, are you planning when you're going to bail out of this and what your life is going to be like after?
01:56:46.000Because you've hit this crazy peak in your life right now.
01:56:51.000It's likely never going to be replicated by anyone else that comes after you.
01:56:56.000You're in this weird crazy position and it can't last.
01:57:00.000You can't fight like this when you're 80. It just can't be done.
01:57:46.000I don't look at all these separate, disjointed things.
01:57:49.000Like, I'm not gonna go in there and I'm not gonna try this thing and then try this thing and try that thing and then hope something works out.
01:57:54.000It's like I follow a path train of thought while I'm in there and while I'm doing everything else.
01:58:01.000So it's just like, this is what I want to do right now, and these are the possible reactions, these are the possible things that could happen.
01:58:08.000And we're going with option three, okay.
01:58:46.000I know I'm going to retire at some point.
01:58:49.000But still, I'm still so far away that I can't say exactly how.
01:58:54.000I'm still following the path and the train of thought to get there.
01:58:57.000And we know when she wins, you know, so quick, no injuries, training healthy, happy, smart, intelligent, back-to-back wins, she could fight three fights a year, you know?
02:00:08.000It's not only that, but I still keep on saying it.
02:00:10.000It's because she had the movies, right?
02:00:13.000So first time going to a big movie of her career and dealing with all those big actors and she kept her weight very low and I wasn't there because I had Nonitos and Vic's fight.
02:01:04.000I think it was like nine stitches or something like that from the Lexus Davis fight?
02:01:09.000That is an injury from that Misha fight because I lost my calluses while I was filming.
02:01:18.000When I came back all the skin came off my hands right away like bare like my knuckles were gone.
02:01:25.000So while you were filming you didn't do any training at all?
02:01:27.000No, I trained a lot, but I couldn't do any impact on my hands because I punched too hard for my hands.
02:01:31.000I have the smallest hands in the UFC. I have tiny fragile little hands like the even like my thumb bone like is like abnormally small.
02:01:39.000Yeah, and So I can't hit unless he he professionally wraps my hands with gauze and tape every single training session and I can't hit any other way.
02:01:48.000My hands will like explode pretty much.
02:01:52.000I was running up mountains and I was wrestling and I was, you know, doing all these things and everything that I could, but I wasn't having any impact on my hands.
02:02:40.000Like a crater in my hand and it keeps falling off and the whole thing falls off and it gets bigger every time.
02:02:46.000Every time it falls off it's bigger and it's deeper and I start to see like the little like the fat like beads because it's like that like deep.
02:02:54.000Like I would look at it sideways and there would be a dent.
02:02:56.000Inside and then it would heal and then there'd be a huge lump and then they would, whatever it was inside would burst.
02:03:01.000I was getting a ganglion cyst on my knuckle.
02:03:05.000And so I finally like healed up enough where I could fight, you know, like, but I had to like not punch on it really at all or else it would rip right off.
02:03:17.000And I remember right before the fight, I told Edmund, I was like, this knuckle on my right hand, I'm like, I'm going to plant it right on her face, I promise you.
02:03:25.000I ended up actually knocking her out with the straight right.
02:03:28.000But then I couldn't get anything done about it.
02:03:31.000Because then I had to go straight to McMahon.
02:03:33.000And then with McMahon I did two camps back to back.
02:03:35.000Now my knee is fucking up because I'm doing two camps back to back and I can't take that much punishment all the time.
02:03:39.000And my knuckle is still super fucked up.
02:04:35.000Yeah, so I wanted to fight in the meantime, so I was like, okay, I can't get surgery, and I can't get all these things worked on now.
02:04:40.000I'm going to go do this fight, and then I'll do it afterward.
02:04:42.000And so then I went and did the Lexus fight, and I remember just looking at this thing in my knuckle, and I was like, I feel like I could pull it out.
02:04:47.000I feel like whatever the fuck is in there, I could get it out.
02:04:51.000And there were times I was trying to do surgery on it, and pull things out, and I was pulling things out of my hand.
02:04:55.000What were you pulling out of there, furniture?
02:04:57.000Like little beads, like little balls of things.
02:05:22.000And then, yeah, the first overhand right I ever threw in a fight, I threw it right on Alexis' head and the whole thing exploded, like, down to the bone, like, from the inside of my knuckle all the way out.
02:05:33.000They never got good footage of it because I didn't want my mom to see it because she was, like, all, you know, really nervous and worried for me when I'm doing MMA. And so there's like this tiny bit of footage that Elliot got where I'm like holding my hand away from my mother and he's like looking around the corner.
02:06:09.000And then I realized a couple days later I broke my thumb and I was walking around with my hand out and I ended up having to have a pin put in and all that stuff.
02:06:36.000And then I hurt my pinky during the Budweiser commercial.
02:06:39.000I didn't hurt anything else during the camp at all.
02:06:42.000I got hurt doing like the two commercials right beforehand.
02:06:45.000It's one of the big problems that people don't think about when they watch fights, if they're casual observers, is what fighters are going into camp with, kind of nagging injuries.
02:06:54.000You know, like we do it, but she punches.