Dana White and Joe Rogan react to Holly Holm's upset win over Ronda Rousey at UFC 207 in the main event of UFC Fight Night: The Ultimate Fighter 28 Finale in Las Vegas. They also discuss the aftermath of the fight and the reaction to the post-fight press conference. Dana and Joe also talk about the future of the UFC and what the future could look like in the future. They also give their thoughts on the recent events in the world of politics and the current state of the NFL and the upcoming Super Bowl. Joe also gives his thoughts on what the UFC should do in the wake of the massive upset and what they should do after the fight. Dana also talks about what he's going to do next and what he thinks about the UFC's future in the UFC. They wrap up the show with a quick Q&A from the press conference and a look ahead to UFC 220. Thanks to everyone for all the support, stay tuned for more UFC! -Joe Rogan & The Joe Rogans Experience. -Jon Sorrentino -Your Hosts: Dana White & Tony Haysgood -JOSH MILLER -Ronna Rousey -Khalil Gibbons -Shawn Mendez -Holly Holm vs. Ronda Rousey -Rory Mcgregor -Stephanie Smoluck -Cris Judd -Syracuse -Manny Pacquiao -And much more - and much more! -and much more!! Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the pod and all the love, love, support, support and support, love and respect, love & appreciation, bye bye, bye - Cheers, bye Bye bye. -Your support, bye. Cheers. Love ya, bye! -Your continued support, your support, Bye Bye, bye, Bye bye, MURCHES! -JORDY! -Jon & Rory - EJ & RYAN - MURPHY <3 - - OJ & JOSH & JOSEPH - THE JOE XO Love, -AYOJ & KEVY -PSYCHE -PODCAST - RICKY & RODA - SONGS - PODCASTING
00:00:51.000I think Buster Douglas might have been a bigger upset because Buster Douglas was kind of a fuck-up.
00:00:57.000He was kind of a guy who didn't really train hard, didn't take care of himself.
00:01:03.000And he was a 42-1 underdog when he knocked out Mike Tyson.
00:01:06.000Holly Holm was only a 12-1 underdog when she knocked out Ronda.
00:01:10.000And Holly was, you know, very respected in the combat sports world.
00:01:14.000Multiple time boxing and world kickboxing champion.
00:01:17.000But still, on Twitter, when I was hyping this fight up and I was telling people about this fight, so many people were saying, you're trying to sell us bullshit.
00:02:43.000There was like a brief moment in the past where Christy Martin got big.
00:02:48.000Remember the coal miner's daughter and she used to box on TV and she would have these kind of fights but one of the things about watching women fight was they didn't really knock each other out.
00:02:57.000They'd sort of beat each other and they'd punch each other but When Holly head-kicked Ronda last night, it wasn't just that she beat her.
00:03:06.000It was just that Ronda was such a superstar.
00:03:09.000When such a superstar gets beaten like that, the whole world has to go, what?
00:03:14.000It's like when Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson.
00:03:31.000Ronda Rousey runs out, grabs girls, throws them on their head, arm bars them, or she knees them in the stomach, punches them in the face, takes them out.
00:03:39.000To see that happen, the way it happened, to see Holly Holm fight the perfect fight.
00:04:01.000It's almost the same feeling, not the same feeling, but almost the same feeling that I got on 9-11, watching those giant trade centers come down.
00:04:12.000When the Trade Centers got hit by planes, we were like, holy fuck.
00:04:16.000But when you watched them actually come down, you're like, there's no way something that solid and that stabilized and strong and powerful is coming down right now.
00:04:24.000And that's how I felt when the leg kick happened.
00:04:27.000I felt like there was a delayed reaction from everybody.
00:04:30.000People were like, oh yeah, she just got head kicked and she went down, but it's not over.
00:04:36.000And until the ref, until I heard Dean waved that hand, I still think it took 10, 20, 30 seconds before people really realized what was happening there.
00:05:02.000I'm talking about movement and distance and Holly Holm's striking credentials.
00:05:08.000I'm like, this is a complicated fight for Ronda.
00:05:12.000And it really sunk in with me when I saw her at the weigh-ins.
00:05:17.000You could tell that she realized, even though Holly wasn't doing anything disrespectful, she wanted to get this emotional.
00:05:24.000She wanted to turn this into something very, very personal.
00:05:27.000Yeah, and she, you know, I don't know what was going on, but Rhonda was, you know, when you do that at the day of the weigh-ins, you're trying to get in her head, you're trying to rattle her, shake her up, and Holly was not rattled or shaken one bit at all, at all.
00:05:42.000What's the other thing that we were talking about during the broadcast?
00:05:45.000We were saying, like, this is a girl who's...
00:05:47.000She's faced intense pressure before, world championship pressure, in boxing and kickboxing.
00:06:09.000You know, experience and this just calm feeling, even though she's going in against Ronda Rousey, and Ronda is, you know, I guess now you could say she was really the female Tyson for the sport because of the way everybody's reacting to her loss.
00:06:25.000But this girl has a lot of experience, man.
00:06:40.000Is that she didn't come into her own in the UFC until this fight.
00:06:44.000Like, even though she looked great in other organizations and she knocked people out, when she fought in the UFC, the few fights she had in the UFC, she was still trying to find her footing.
00:06:55.000She looked good, but she didn't look like a world beater.
00:06:58.000It's like, we talk about this all the time, but being in the UFC is such an overwhelming experience for fighters that it takes them several fights.
00:07:10.000Like, Kyle Noak has had, what, 10 fights in the UFC? I don't even know how many fights he's had in the UFC. But last night, came into his own.
00:07:17.000Last night, when Kyle Noak fought Sabata, he came into his own.
00:07:22.000He landed that, he looked fantastic, landed that front kick to body, and said to himself, When I was interviewing him, he's finally believing in himself.
00:07:30.000It takes a while to get comfortable in there.
00:07:33.000The other thing too, this sport, in this sport, it's so different.
00:08:03.000Is that in this sport, and we say this all the time, there's so many different ways to win and lose and it's so hard to be perfect all the time in this sport.
00:08:13.000To go undefeated and go on these long runs for 10 years like Jose Aldo or as long as Anderson Silva did or as long as Ronda Rousey did.
00:08:50.000And then you take all the things about physically not being perfect, then add the pressure and the workload that gets put on you when you become a UFC champion.
00:08:58.000Ronda Rousey did it better than anybody's ever done it.
00:09:37.000He's got his Beats headphones blaring.
00:09:39.000But when you see all these things, I tune into them and I see them, but I don't think of how many she's doing that I'm aware of them.
00:09:49.000If you're aware of someone on The Tonight Show, if you're aware of someone in a Rolling Stone article, think about how many things they're doing that you're not aware of.
00:09:58.000Think of how much shit Rhonda is doing all day long, constantly her phone's blowing up, media requests, constantly people asking her to do things.
00:10:06.000And you know, as well, you know, most people don't realize, they look at somebody and go, oh, big deal, you gotta do interviews, you gotta do this.
00:11:25.000You know, I remember when BJ Penn beat Matt Hughes and I was interviewing Matt in the Octagon and Matt was very candid and very honest and I really admire the way he approached it because no one's ever...
00:11:36.000I never interviewed anybody before and they talked about it like that.
00:11:39.000He said, honestly, losing is a relief.
00:11:41.000He said it was just a tremendous amount of pressure being the champ and having all these people coming after me.
00:12:15.000Now, when you look at the fight stylistically, that's one of the crazy things about fights.
00:12:20.000You can get a guy like Floyd Mayweather that figures out how to box people and get to a 49-0 record.
00:12:26.000But to figure out how to beat every different style of martial artist...
00:12:31.000When you're talking about takedowns, leg kicks, all these different things, we talked about the one thing that we hadn't seen Ronda deal with was someone who knows how to kick.
00:15:00.000She like completely whiffed and Holly just ducked under and was out of the way.
00:15:05.000And she turned around and she had a look on her face like, who am I going against right now?
00:15:10.000It's exactly what her face said and she was wearing it and I think that was a huge turning point.
00:15:17.000I also think, you know, I went crazy when...
00:15:21.000Holly Holm took her down because they were clinched up and it looked like Rondo was trying to get that toss in.
00:15:26.000All of a sudden Holly lifted and sort of just did like a standing double leg sort of and got her down.
00:15:33.000It was I think psychologically a huge turning point.
00:15:36.000They got into a clinch there at one point and they ended up going down on the ground and Rondo was trying to get an armbar on her and then Holly pulled out of it.
00:15:54.000And I said to Bruce in the truck, I was like, let's do the whole fight again.
00:15:57.000Let's do the whole fight and comment on it.
00:15:59.000And, you know, with the knowledge of what had happened.
00:16:02.000Because we're only dealing with, you know...
00:16:04.000Seven minutes let's let's do this whole thing again, but we wound up playing the second round again and Rhonda came out for that second round already Flustered already she was so tired going back to that first round like her legs were wobbly she was breathing heavy and I like Edmund.
00:19:45.000And not only do I have to, when I'm interviewing someone inside the Octagon, I am trying my best to get them to express themselves.
00:19:54.000I want Holly to say, I mean, this is the new bantamweight champion of the world, Holly Holm.
00:20:02.000And she's got tears in her eyes, and her dad's there, and her husband's there, and Winkle John's there, and everybody's there, and it's this intense, intense moment, and I just want to get that out of her.
00:20:12.000And while that was all happening, I was thinking to myself, what a good person she is.
00:20:55.000And Holly Holm and her father, her husband, and all the crew that was around her could not have been better people, could not have handled the whole situation.
00:24:54.000So, Donald Trump apparently was pissed because he came out and said that Ronda was endorsing him for president, and then Ronda came out and said she was not.
00:25:04.000Well, she said she was endorsing Bernie Sanders, didn't she?
00:25:07.000Which is ridiculous, because she's rich, you know?
00:25:10.000Ronda, Ronda, I love you, but Bernie Sanders is a lunatic socialist, man.
00:26:06.000We just took off at 12.30 in the afternoon on Monday in Australia, and Holly Holm was still trending worldwide, number one, and the NFL is going on right now.
00:26:15.000And there were crazy games like Green Bay lost again.
00:26:19.000The Patriots barely beat the Giants with his last-second field goal with six seconds left, and Brady drove down the field with a minute left.
00:26:28.000Holly Holm is still number one trending worldwide.
00:26:32.000Because you've seen football a million times.
00:26:35.000When the ball goes across the line, everybody gets crazy.
00:26:38.000But to see someone like Ronda Rousey, a movie star, you know, transcending the world of mixed martial arts, get fucking head kicked like that, and flatlined, and blood, and the hammer fist, like...
00:26:55.000And when I think about Lady Gaga and Donald Trump, the first thing that I was thinking when we were talking about this was, you and I have been friends for a long time, and one of the first UFCs that I came to when we became friends was...
00:27:09.000Right after September 11th in 2001, when Tito Ortiz fought Vladimir Matyushenko, and you guys went over the pay-per-view.
00:27:17.000So what happened was there was a cut-off, a three-hour cut-off, and when the cut-off hit, the fight was still going on.
00:28:27.000But to go from that to, here we are in 2015, and a fucking guy who's running for president, Donald Trump, is tweeting about the results of the fight in a catty way.
00:28:40.000Like, I'm glad she's not a good person.
00:28:42.000Not only is he running, he's basically the frontrunner right now.
00:28:45.000I think Ben Carson is for the Republican Party.
00:29:00.000I think Jeb Bush is probably the more likely candidate.
00:29:03.000It's like, wait for the dust to settle.
00:29:05.000But just the fact that a guy running for president is addressing mixed martial arts, which, you know, you and I have both talked about that when we first got involved in it.
00:29:15.000It was like talking about being involved in porn.
00:29:26.000And all the people that were tweeting about the fight before the fight.
00:29:33.000Ronda brings in this crowd of people that don't normally watch UFC. Yeah, definitely.
00:29:40.000Well, John Wayne Parr, who is a 10-time world Muay Thai champion, he's a good buddy of mine, he was at the fight yesterday, and he brought his daughter.
00:29:47.000His daughter's a huge Ronda Rousey fan, and his daughter was so conflicted after that fight was over because she's a kickboxer herself.
00:29:56.000She loves kickboxing, so on one hand...
00:31:23.000And one of the things Holly said that was cool at the press conference last night, one of the guys said, did you ever doubt that you could do this?
00:31:33.000She goes, there were days at the gym when I had a bad day and I'd just walk out and go in my car and cry for 15, 20 minutes thinking I can't do this.
00:31:43.000If this is the way I'm going to fight, I'm not gonna win.
00:31:46.000She goes, then I'd go home, I'd eat, I'd relax, and I'd go back at six and work on everything that I wasn't good at two hours earlier, until I got it right, you know?
00:31:56.000And that goes with exactly what you're saying.
00:31:58.000You could tell physically when she went into the Arctic, she was shredded.
00:32:02.000She had a six-pack like I've never seen her have before.
00:32:05.000I mean, she looked in incredible shape.
00:32:21.000I was watching her during Ronda's entire entrance, which is, you know, sitting that close is something that you don't really get to see on TV. But I had my camera, my eyes, focused directly on Holly the entire time Rhonda was coming out, and she was.
00:32:36.000She was doing five steps, bounce, go the other way, five steps, bounce.
00:32:40.000When she was getting her mouthpiece put in, when Rhonda was stepping in the octagon, Holly was nothing but focused.
00:32:54.000It was a different kind of focus because it was a girl who's experienced that kind of intense pressure situation before, that world title pressure.
00:33:03.000Like, when Betch Cohea was in Brazil and she was facing Ronda, she had this look on her face before that fight like she was about to go fight a werewolf with a butter knife.
00:33:12.000You know, she was just like, oh, put on a brave face.
00:33:14.000She almost knew she was going to get fucked up.
00:33:17.000It was almost like the enormity of the moment was just like, ooh!
00:35:10.000How many times have you guys had to deal with people saying, oh, these fucking cards are watered down, and I'm tired of this fucking bullshit, and how is this guy still fighting?
00:35:22.000You have to, you know, especially in this new world we're living, you have to be able to tune that shit out, man.
00:36:11.000He was saying that now that women are fighting in the UFC, I must be really desperate.
00:36:17.000Like we're going out of business and I must be really desperate.
00:36:20.000What's funny is, these people on social media, he says to me, you know, he's obviously ripping on the UFC, so I hit him back and I say, where have you been living under a rock?
00:40:12.000You know, to use an analogy, it's sort of like UFC fighters.
00:40:15.000Like, some people are good at some things, and sometimes the audience wants those certain things.
00:40:20.000And you gotta know which muscle to use against your opponent if your opponent's that audience, that venue, whether it's in Australia or Sweden or LA, you know?
00:40:28.000Yeah, when it comes to the roasting thing, I enjoy watching it.
00:40:33.000There's a thing called Roast Battle that they do at the Comedy Store.
00:42:21.000Dude, I can't tell you how many guys get mad at me where I point out situations that they're not necessarily the best at or skills that they may need to look into to get mad at me.
00:42:47.000I think if they're from a different country, I bet Brazilians probably wouldn't want to get made fun of that much, just throwing it out there.
00:42:54.000I think it all depends on the culture.
00:43:26.000She's the only person that cuts weight by chopping off her dick.
00:43:32.000Yeah, there'd be a lot of different angles if you could approach that.
00:43:36.000I think it would be tough for a fighter to do a Rosh.
00:43:38.000So, back to the Ronda Rousey, Holly Holm thing.
00:43:43.000Obviously, you can't talk to Ronda right now because it's too soon, it's too intense, she's probably just in agony right now.
00:43:52.000But how long do you wait before you think about scheduling a rematch?
00:43:59.000Well, normally when fighters come off a fight like the Ronda fight, the Lawler-McDonald fight, you know, you don't even talk to them about fighting for the last Cormier fight with,
00:46:23.000You're a promoter in a very weird way.
00:46:25.000Because you're a promoter, but you're also the main personality behind the UFC. When I checked into the hotel yesterday, they called me Mr. White.
00:46:33.000I'm like, we're both bald, but I'm not Mr. White.
00:47:08.000We have employees, you know, In a weird way, we're more like a media company, yet we promote fights.
00:47:16.000It's really morphed into this weird thing, but a lot of the stuff, a lot of the things, and the growing pains of building this business, the relationships that you have to have with a lot of these guys, you know?
00:47:33.000There's some guys on the undercards that I've never even met before, and then there's people that I'm really, really close to, and you were saying it earlier.
00:48:18.000And then there's times when I'm like, you know, it's the complete opposite, too.
00:48:21.000I mean, let's be honest, where I don't have a great relationship with a guy, you know?
00:48:27.000You know, there's a parallel between you and me, too, in that there really wasn't a you before you, and there really wasn't that many people doing commentary before me.
00:48:39.000Like, you're not like a normal promoter in the sense that...
00:48:44.000I mean, you have Don King, who's like, only in America, but it's all...
00:48:48.000You know, it's mostly showmanship and bullshit and...
00:48:53.000You just somehow or another figured out how to just be Dana White.
00:48:59.000Do you remember some sort of a conscious decision to not put on some sort of fake professional attitude?
00:49:21.000I don't know man, I don't know really how to explain it, but I just go in there and we put on fights and we, you know, we try to put on the best fights.
00:49:35.000That are available with the best talent that we have.
00:49:37.000For instance, I believed that the Ronda Rousey-Holly Holm fight was the fight.
00:49:42.000But you get all these fucking conspiracy weirdos that start talking about...
00:49:48.000All anybody wants to say is, Oh, I want to see Dana White's face after Holly Holm beat her.
00:49:58.000Somebody's going to win and somebody's going to lose.
00:50:01.000I mean, anybody that's stupid enough to fucking think that I think, you know, somebody could win forever or somebody else couldn't win is ridiculous.
00:50:10.000Or that Rhonda hasn't fought the best competition available.
00:50:14.000Rhonda's fought all the best girls in the world at 135 pounds.
00:50:46.000The opportunity has been there for Cyborg this whole time.
00:50:50.000Gurren Tito got out there and said all that crazy shit that they said and she'd die if she made weight and all that stuff that was going on.
00:50:56.000What, was Ronda supposed to go to 145 or fight her at a catch weight?
00:53:09.000Well, I didn't think that Holly was going to get destroyed, but I thought that Amanda Nunez was a more dangerous fight based on her performance against Sarah McMahon.
00:53:17.000Because she smashed Sarah McMahon, knocked her down, beat her up.
00:53:19.000And I know she had beaten up Kat Zingano in the first round, although she got stopped later in the round.
00:53:24.000I think Kat Zingano is still dangerous as fuck.
00:53:29.000She just charged, got caught in a scramble, and, you know, Ronda is so nasty at catching those arm bars.
00:53:36.000And even in this fight, she had been tagged with all those fucking straight lefts, she had been rocked, and she still, when they went to the ground, she was immediately threatening with an arm bar.
00:53:46.000She still has the best arm bar technique in MMA. There was one part for a second where she caught her arm standing and grabbed it like a crocodile.
00:53:55.000I don't know what she was going to do with it, but she fucking had it.
00:53:58.000Well, she tried to take her down with it.
00:54:19.000What got her to that position is being a great fighter.
00:54:24.000And there's a balance there somewhere.
00:54:26.000And you gotta find out where's the balance.
00:54:28.000Is the balance spending all this time working on movies and all this other shit?
00:54:33.000Or is the balance going back to fucking Rocky IV? Going to that cabin in the woods and going running up the hills of the snow and focusing on just fighting.
00:58:26.000Because you can't have a doctor do that kind of shit, because if you have a doctor do it, all he cares about is getting the fucking ear back on, not how it looks.
00:58:34.000But cosmetically, it's like a doctor will come in and stitch Rhonda's lip, but then Rhonda's lip is gonna look weird.
00:58:40.000So when we do fights in Vegas, There's a doctor named Dr. Hsu.
00:58:45.000I don't know if you've ever met Dr. Hsu.
00:58:52.000He sews up these cuts because, as you know, in fighting, cuts are a big problem.
00:58:58.000They have to be sewn up the right way, not only cosmetically, but if you're going to continue to fight, you have to sew them up so that they don't rip open all the time and get a lot of...
00:59:07.000Scar tissue under there and things like that.
00:59:09.000So we're very, very careful and stuff like that.
00:59:12.000But if anything traumatic ever happens to your kids or your wife, you're looking for a plastic surgeon, not a doctor.
01:02:55.000And it might not even work because there's going to be all that scar tissue and healing from the first sutures and you'd have to cut that out maybe.
01:03:47.000We're pretty big on the medical side with the fighters.
01:03:50.000Yeah, I mean, it's got to be an incredibly difficult job to do to stitch up a cut like that and make sure that it heals in a nice, thin, clean line like that.
01:04:03.000You know, my friend John Wayne Parr, he was at the fights last night.
01:04:07.000He's a 10-time world Muay Thai champion.
01:05:00.000It's really incredible though, like what you do, it's amazing.
01:05:05.000I grew up, and Joe's about to kill me, I grew up a huge pro wrestling fan, and there's something about what Vince McMahon has been able to accomplish with the crazy circus that he's running and turn it into a huge company with tons of fans that watch every week.
01:05:39.000But it's amazing to me that you have been able to accomplish that with reality.
01:05:47.000Everything he did, he wrote it out himself and wrote scripts.
01:05:52.000They have 20, 30 writers that he pays six figures a year, big time, more than six regular, middle six figures a year they all get paid to write that stuff every week.
01:06:06.000And you have been able to grow this thing And I guess that's really like, it's mind-blowing.
01:09:13.000Some people had set off the fire extinguishers and it filled the room up with that smoke, you know, that fog that those fire extinguishers create.
01:09:57.000It was dangerous to the point where I was ready to start a fucking stampede.
01:09:59.000I was like, like, why are you fuckers not running?
01:10:03.000Like, there's an alarm going off, an announcement saying the building's on fire, and you people are strolling down the stairs, and half of them look like zombies.
01:10:13.000I've had some friends that have done some shit when they were on sleeping pills, like Kevin James.
01:10:18.000Kevin James takes sleeping pills to cook himself dinner and doesn't realize he cooked dinner and wake up in the morning like, what the fuck is this?
01:10:24.000And then someone has to tell him that he cooked it.
01:11:14.000I don't do sleeping pills either, but if I need to fall asleep on this flight, I might go a couple rows back and have Holly Holm kick me in the neck as hard as she can.
01:11:29.000She was supposed to stay a couple more days, and then she changed her mind and wanted to leave today, so I don't know if she got out or not.
01:11:34.000Do you schedule fighters to leave a couple days after so they can recover?
01:11:38.000Yeah, you give the fighters on the card a couple days.
01:11:43.000You'll see fighters getting on all banged up.
01:11:47.000I just always think after you've had a fight, you should rest a couple days.
01:12:11.000Don't really understand or appreciate how fucking tough these human beings really are that compete in the UFC. Man, these guys are so tough.
01:12:19.000And girls, it's pretty fucking spectacular how tough these people are.
01:12:23.000Well, you were talking about the Robbie Lawler-Rory McDonald fight.
01:12:27.000And after that fight, Robbie, Rory rather, tweeted a photo of his face like the next day.
01:12:33.000And his eyes were closed, shut, and his nose was fucked up.
01:12:37.000And what's crazy about it, he said that it was the greatest That's how you know you're supposed to be a fighter.
01:13:12.000They're very special, and I think that's why, as human beings, we're so in awe of professional fighters, you know?
01:13:18.000I always say that, that, you know, fighting's in our fucking DNA, and we just, we look at fighters and we're like, holy shit, that fucking guy is the toughest dude in the world, or that girl is the toughest girl in the world, and why we...
01:13:31.000Put them on such a big pedestal, they deserve to be.
01:13:34.000But, at the same time, the craziest, loneliest fucking, you know, Ronda Rousey loses one fight and everybody turns on her and starts shitting her.
01:14:30.000When I went on Instagram last night and Twitter and I was reading all that mean shit that people were typing about Rhonda, I knew what the fuck that is.
01:14:37.000That's the weakest aspects of humanity.
01:14:40.000If we could pluck those people out of our culture, the world would be a way better place.
01:14:45.000And if the people listening to this, if you're one of those people, you need to fucking go for a walk.
01:15:14.000Because if you do know shit, you would just look at it and you would recognize the sacrifice And the drama of it all and the danger of it all, and you would have respect for them.
01:15:28.000And these special individuals who walk this fucking earth and go out and fight in front of millions of people and lay it all on the line, you know?
01:15:37.000I've seen guys walk in with the fucking belt and an entourage, go home in a fucking ambulance and by themselves.
01:18:20.000You know, you talk all that crazy shit, that's where you get all the money.
01:18:23.000The money comes from what Conor McGregor's doing.
01:18:26.000Oh, I don't like what Conor McGregor's doing.
01:18:28.000Mixed martial arts is supposed to be about respect.
01:18:31.000Look, you got maybe ten years if you're lucky.
01:18:34.000But realistically, the great fighters, you look at the great fighters, they have like an eight-year period that they can operate at this incredibly high RPM. And then your body starts giving out.
01:20:05.000As weird as it is, and the fact that it's not real and this and that, you know, that's definitely something that, you know, they built their entire MO off of, you know?
01:21:43.000Where they get super defensive and crazy is if you say that they're not real athletes.
01:21:49.000Because they do every night, you know what I mean?
01:21:52.000They do a different arena every night.
01:21:54.000On Mondays it's filmed, and then they do pay-per-views on Sundays.
01:21:57.000So the only thing that really ruckuses up the fans, if you say that those guys aren't real athletes, Well, it is a tough job.
01:22:05.000Those guys put in some fucking serious numbers.
01:22:08.000I mean, how many days a year do they go on the road?
01:22:10.000That was one of the reasons why Brock Lesnar decided that fighting in the fucking UFC at the highest level of the game with one, one previous MMA fight was easier than doing pro wrestling.
01:22:23.000That goes to show you how hard that entertainment business is.
01:22:45.000The people over at the WWE are fans of UFC, and anytime I've ever had any type of interaction with a WWE star, they're always really good people.
01:22:56.000Really good people, really nice, totally respectful, just like the best people to deal with.
01:23:02.000So I have nothing against wrestling at all.
01:23:05.000Do you think CM Punk is ever going to actually fight?
01:23:58.000Tell me what he's talking about, the collagen thing.
01:24:01.000Yeah, so they're working on this thing over there where, you know how testosterone replacement therapy works?
01:24:07.000You know, as we get older, our testosterone levels drop, and then they can, you know, give you an injection and put this testosterone back into your body, make you feel younger, sex life, all these other things.
01:24:46.000Right now, I guess this shit's ready to go.
01:24:47.000They're just building up the infrastructure over there because when this thing comes out and when they announce this, it's going to be a trillion dollar business.
01:25:04.000I can't give you the scientific explanation of it, but they basically came up with this thing where you get these injections and it makes you younger again.
01:25:13.000It's almost like replacing the collagen in your body.
01:25:18.000They go away and your face looks like your face looked when you were younger.
01:25:22.000So ladies out there that are banging your faces all up with all this crazy shit that they're doing, plastic surgery and all this stuff, I'd lay off it and wait for this stuff to come out.
01:25:31.000We're a fucking year away from this happening.
01:25:41.000One of the controversies in MMA over the last few years was that, for a while, the Nevada State Athletic Commission was allowing testosterone use exemptions.
01:25:53.000Vitor, maybe unfairly, takes the brunt of the criticism for that.
01:25:57.000Because his results on testosterone were so fucking spectacular.
01:26:01.000When you get an old guy like Vitor, who has all that experience and all that knowledge, and you give him testosterone, and his body performs like a young guy's body, but with all that knowledge and all that experience, you get what happened in the Henderson fight, the Bisping fight,
01:26:17.000and the Rockhold fight, where he just looks fucking sensational.
01:26:46.000Out of all the fucking people, he's a guy that actually medically has to take it, and not because of his age, because he has some type of pituitary or something like that.
01:26:55.000To where his pituitary gland causes gigantism, which stops his body's production of a lot of hormones.
01:30:11.000I think harder than Ronda's ever went for anybody.
01:30:13.000Even her last fight when the lady said about her dad's suicide, you know, don't kill yourself or whatever, she seemed more mad than At Holly Holm, for what?
01:30:23.000For drinking her drink and moving her hand towards her a little bit?
01:30:26.000Like, she bum-rushed her during the weigh-in.
01:30:29.000And she did exactly at that weigh-in, exactly what she did in the octagon.
01:30:33.000But didn't you say that the weigh-in changed the betting line?
01:30:52.000It's the day that you get to see who's on weight, how do they stare down, does either guy flinch, does either one of them budge, does somebody trying to get the mental edge.
01:31:02.000It's the fucking greatest day of the week except for Saturday.
01:31:06.000To break it down even more, I've watched the last four weigh-ins of Johanna Janjacek, and this was the first time that Valerie Letourneau was the first person that also put her head down and matched up with Johanna.
01:31:24.000Yeah, and it's basically saying, let's fucking go.
01:31:27.000I'm telling you, dude, you're dead on fucking right now.
01:31:32.000When we were in whatever, I fucking loved.
01:31:36.000When they squared off, a lot of the time my job is to make sure they don't touch each other.
01:31:41.000Because when they touch each other, then people start feeling disrespected and whatever.
01:31:45.000Valley Returnal laid her fucking head right on top of Joanna's at the on sale.
01:31:52.000When we came out here for the on sale.
01:31:54.000And they smooshed their fucking nose to nose.
01:31:58.000I have to kind of gauge what's going on there so that shit doesn't happen.
01:32:01.000And I felt that they were both, and I was like, God damn, this is badass.
01:32:06.000I just let it happen because they both just did it, you know?
01:32:09.000But you got to be careful because you let guys do that and you get the Cormier Jones situation, you know what I mean?
01:32:15.000It's real tricky, but you're dead on with what you're saying.
01:32:17.000And that was the day I said, Letourneau is here to fucking fuck.
01:32:20.000And not only that, but a little bit more icing on that cake.
01:32:24.000When Johanna and Letourneau were forehead to forehead, Johanna was talking and you asked her what she said, but if you watch that again, Valerie's talking too and they're just talking over each other.
01:33:18.000It's like the highest level of MMA in the women's division is comparable to the highest level of men's MMA. I mean, absolutely.
01:33:28.000I put Ioana striking up with anybody on the fucking planet that fights in MMA. Six-time world Muay Thai champion, clean striking.
01:33:36.000I mean, she's obviously 115 pounds, so she's not dropping people dead like Rumble Johnson is, but she is fucking nasty and skillful.
01:33:46.000The first time I saw her, I've said she's my favorite fighter.
01:33:49.000And I make jokes about wanting to marry her and this and that.
01:33:52.000Truth is, I have a girlfriend who hates all this Johanna mumble jumble when she reads it on my Twitter and is searching what people are saying about me.
01:34:44.000I mean, there was nothing amateurish about it, nothing clumsy or sloppy.
01:34:48.000That was as skillful as you could ever hope for in a professional mixed martial arts fight.
01:34:54.000And the way she took advantage of Ronda at the end of that, the exchange in the second round when Ronda was tired and she slipped and she caught her with that punch and then head kicked her, I mean, that's...
01:35:31.000Juliana Pena, it's nice to have her back too.
01:35:34.000Those four, those four women, you know, in any, mix and match that any way you want.
01:35:40.000Well, you know, the perception was that Ronda was at the top of the heap and everybody else was just underskilled, but man, that My perception's been blown wide open by Holly Holm now.
01:36:05.000And you know the thing about having someone like a Ronda Rousey or like a Joanna is that greatness beckons greatness.
01:36:14.000When you have one person at the top that is just fantastic and spectacular and has these incredible results, All these people that are coming up, they have this insanely high level to aspire to, and that's what makes martial arts so great in 2015. It's not a coincidence that if you go back to 1993,
01:36:33.000and you look at the level of the fighters, and then you look at it in 2015, Head and shoulders above everybody.
01:36:42.000And the reason being is that slowly but surely everybody aspired to the people who were at the top and the people coming up got better and better and better and better and that's how we have the level that we have today.
01:36:53.000And you're seeing that mirrored now in the women's divisions.
01:36:56.000And that's one of the most exciting things about the sport.
01:36:59.000And it's That way, not only for the UFC, but for life, you know what I mean?
01:37:02.000Like, sometimes I forget until, you know, I'll go once in a while, a month or two without working with you, or, you know, but like, there's only a few people left that I watch.
01:37:13.000I do stand-up comedy every night, and I work really hard for the last nine years, basically training every night to get as good as I can get.
01:37:20.000But when I see you, Joey Diaz, and Bill Burr, which are the only three people left that I'll even watch, It's a straight shot of adrenaline inspiration.
01:37:29.000All of a sudden, I'm riding harder the next day.
01:37:48.000One of the most important aspects of MMA is competition.
01:37:54.000These are not people that evolve in a vacuum.
01:37:57.000They evolve looking at each other, mirroring each other.
01:37:59.000And also now, one of the things that we've said many times is that martial arts have evolved more since 1993 when the UFC was founded than they have in the past 10,000 years.
01:38:16.000I remember when I was a kid, in 1986, I went to watch the World Cup in Colorado Springs, in Taekwondo, and I flew out there, and it was a giant turning point in my Taekwondo career, because I was really good, I was winning like, Good level tournaments,
01:38:34.000and I was doing well, but in 86 when I went to watch the best guys on the planet, I came back 20, 30, 40% better.
01:38:45.000I saw the top of the mountain, and I think when you get people that are sitting in the crowd You know, you get these young contenders that are sitting there and they watch someone like Holly Holm dismantle Ronda Rousey.
01:38:56.000They watch someone like Chris Weidman knock out Anderson Silva.
01:40:02.000It seemed like she just thought she was gonna out.
01:40:06.000I think it was more desperation than ego, but I think you're right in some ways, but I think really, instead of ego, I think pressure is a better thing to concentrate on.
01:40:18.000Because I think both with Ronda and with Anderson, Anderson had the pressure of everybody saying he was the pound for pound greatest fighter of all time.
01:40:26.000And he had all these murderers coming up through the ranks like Weidman, Yoel Romero, all these, Jacare, all these guys waiting in line to get a shot at him.
01:40:35.000And the pressure of that is just overwhelming.
01:40:38.000But unlike Anderson, or unlike Ronda rather, Anderson didn't have all these movie offers.
01:40:43.000He's not constantly doing television shows.
01:40:46.000I mean, he had some media obligations, especially particularly in Brazil where he's idolized, but Ron is on a totally different level.
01:42:24.000The problem with the last time, though, was there was two WADA tests that had him below the threshold, which are much more comprehensive tests.
01:42:41.000And that's why he's going to do well in that deal.
01:42:45.000Well, they're so out of control that they would fucking ban him for five years when they do that.
01:42:51.000I mean, it's one thing to find a guy or to figure out some sort of a compromise, community service, whatever the fuck you've got to do, but you're taking away the guy's career.
01:43:00.000Five years when you're 20 is a long time.
01:43:03.000Five years when you're 32 is a death sentence.
01:43:27.000I mean, I don't know whether or not the Nevada State Athletic Commission is going to repeal it, but I know that they did throw out his lifetime ban.
01:43:37.000I mean, it's not like he can go back to work right now, but if they just...
01:43:42.000Banned him or gave him a suspension that was the same amount of time that you would have gotten if you tested positive for steroids, especially Vandele, who had never tested positive before.
01:43:53.000You know, and look, Vandele's no saint.
01:43:56.000Who knows what the fuck he had done when he was in pride.
01:43:58.000But the point is, when they were testing him, he followed the guidelines, at least as far as when they tested him.
01:44:51.000It's not good for PR. It's not good for how everybody...
01:44:55.000I know they were mad at me because I tweeted the phone number for the Nevada State Athletic Commission after they banned Nick Diaz for five years.
01:45:20.000They'll just change their number or whatever.
01:45:22.000But the point being is that they didn't take into consideration the two WADA tests, which is fucked up, and they banned him for five years and fined him $160,000.
01:46:19.000I mean, you know, they say that smoking pot's one of those things where, like, if you're in college and you study for a test high, that you should take the test high, and, you know.
01:46:52.000What I do do is I work out a lot of my material.
01:46:55.000When I'm doing, like, a late-night spot at the comedy store, I purposefully get high.
01:47:01.000You know, it's like working out with ankle weights on, and then you do that stuff sober, you'll fucking slay a theater.
01:47:06.000Oh, my God, your timing and beats are just impeccable.
01:47:09.000So I don't know, maybe he trains high, so he feels like he has to fight high.
01:47:14.000Well, there's been arguments like that when it comes to testosterone replacement and even some performance enhancers, that if the two fighters had made an agreement that they would both allow the other person to do whatever amount of whatever,
01:47:30.000that that should be ethical and allowed.
01:47:33.000And then instead of saying, you know, oh, you're cheating, it's just like saying you allow someone to, I mean, we allow people to take multivitamins, we allow them to take creatine, we allow them to use, you know, cryotherapy chambers, and all these things that have shown to have a pretty significant impact on recovery.
01:47:49.000Why not allow them, you know, to make an agreement?
01:48:17.000But the difference is it's not striking.
01:48:20.000I know I'm better at eating and watching movies when I'm high.
01:48:26.000I wonder what's going to happen, Dana, when you're talking about things like Dr. Welling coming out with this collagen stuff.
01:48:33.000When they start coming out with gene therapy and all these different ways to make your body young again, and you get a guy like Vitor, who is an old guy with all this experience and all this knowledge, but that's the trade-off in life, is that as you get older, your body doesn't work as well.
01:48:48.000So you might be a crafty old veteran, but you've got to conserve your energy more because your body's just not capable of the same kind of output.
01:48:55.000But if you get a guy like Vitor and then you bring him to that doctor and he does some wanky shit to his body and all of a sudden he's got both.
01:49:03.000He's got the knowledge and he's got the youthful body.
01:49:06.000The whole sport gets very different and very strange.
01:49:10.000And that'll change all of sports, not just fighting.
01:49:12.000But the difference between basketball and MMA is that in basketball you don't have a finish like you had last night with Holly Holm head kicking Ronda Rousey.
01:49:23.000That's like the, you know, that's the equivalent.
01:49:27.000You know, someone shooting a three-pointer in your face.
01:49:29.000But like you said, you have a guy who's really talented, has the knowledge, and how much longer could Jordan have played if this would have been around when he was here?
01:49:55.000So all these people that have these chronic ailments and injuries, they're going to be able to get those things fixed, and all the detrimental effects of constant competition, they're slowly but surely going to be able to chip away at that stuff.
01:50:16.000You know, all the inflammation in your body that's going on.
01:50:20.000It's going to be fascinating to see how this Yeah, and it's going to be fascinating to see what kind of regulations, if any, are they going to be able to establish to keep up with that stuff.
01:50:34.000How would you even know if a guy was doing that?
01:50:36.000Well, Nowitzki was telling me when he did my podcast that there's an issue that they're having now with they have testosterone that they've developed through animals.
01:50:46.000The way they make Artificial testosterone or synthetic testosterone is they use wild yams.
01:50:53.000I don't understand the process, but they use yams.
01:50:56.000So when they use a carbon isotope test, they can tell that the testosterone that's in your body is not endogenous.
01:51:04.000But with this animal shit, they can't tell.
01:51:08.000So the testosterone they're getting from like, I don't know, wild boars or what the fuck they're using for the testosterone, it's the same as the testosterone that's being cooked up right now in little Tony's nuts.
01:51:26.000He was telling me that there's this thing right now that, you know those strips that you put on your tongue like mouthwash and you know what I'm talking about?
01:51:34.000There's actually, they have these strips that they're putting on their tongue and it gives you all the effects of You know, like a growth hormone or testosterone injections or whatever it is,
01:51:49.000and it's out of your system in 12 hours.
01:51:52.000So if you take that before you go on a workout and you do your whole workout and everything, you get all the benefits of it, and then it's out of your system in 12 hours.
01:52:04.000But these guys, they're really playing Russian roulette with the testing because they're just hoping they don't get nabbed inside that 12-hour period.
01:52:21.000It's really interesting times because it's been pretty clearly established that at least the early days of the UFC and the early days of Pride, period, there was a lot of performance enhancing drug use.
01:52:34.000Off the record, I've talked to guys who did it, who were in Pride, who told me that everybody was doing it, and on the record, Ensign Inouye told me when he was on my podcast that they had, in the fucking contract they gave him, it said, we will not test for steroids.
01:52:59.000It's going to be interesting to see the culture of the sport transition to, you know, as clean as you can get it.
01:53:06.000And, you know, you guys have to take...
01:53:08.000You guys have to be given credit for that because you stepped up and you did something that was very dangerous, very dangerous for the product, very dangerous for the reputation of the sport because as more of these people keep getting popped, and you're spending fucking millions of dollars to do this,
01:53:24.000and these guys are getting popped where you could just do what the NFL does, the NBA does, kind of turn a blind eye.
01:53:31.000No one's begging you to do this or forcing you to do this.
01:53:35.000I'm not sure if it's the NFL or Major League Baseball or one of them, they get warned that they're going to get tested.
01:53:57.000When you look at what we're doing right now to clean the sport up, You know, we have contracts in place, how many fights we have to deliver, not just to television, but pay-per-view and, you know, all these things that we have.
01:54:08.000We have contracts, we have obligations.
01:54:10.000Yeah, we're going to spend $5 million a year in testing.
01:54:14.000And in testing, it could completely cripple the entire business, but it's the right thing to do.
01:54:21.000Yeah, I definitely don't think it's going to cripple the business.
01:54:24.000But I think it's definitely going to weed out...
01:54:26.000If a guy gets tested, you get a big star, and he's on something, he's gone.
01:54:33.000Isn't that a big problem, too, with camps?
01:54:35.000It's not like the NFL, where they have this giant infrastructure set up for...
01:54:41.000They know, like, I mean, there's some variables when it comes to strength and conditioning training in many professional sports, but they have protocols that are pretty clearly established.
01:54:51.000Whereas in MMA, there's a bunch of different ways to do it, and these guys that compete at a very high level that have really wacky camp environments, where you're like, you know, this is not really the most professional, they're hanging out with, like that fucking guy that Anderson hangs around with, the guy from Black House,
01:55:06.000a 60-year-old guy who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger, You know what I mean?
01:55:10.000I mean, like, what do you think that guy does?
01:56:11.000Basically, we're building new offices and building a state-of-the-art rehabilitation center for fighters.
01:56:20.000And it's like the New England Patriots, right?
01:56:24.000If something happens to Brady, they don't tell Brady, see you later, come back, go do your surgery and all your stuff and come back and let us know when you're ready to play again.
01:58:37.000And like movement specific, like different guys who are strikers working on certain things, different guys who are grapplers working on certain things?
01:58:45.000I don't think we're going to get into the striking and grappling.
01:58:50.000They can pick their own coaches and who they'll work with on that.
01:58:52.000But I mean as far as like strength and conditioning aspects of that.
01:58:56.000Body balance, you know, the proper strength, conditioning, stretch, you know, all the things that they're definitely not learning at their gyms.
01:59:35.000And everybody does things differently.
01:59:36.000For every guy like GSP that thinks you have to use gymnastics, there's certain guys like Fedor gave up on all weights and any strength and conditioning later in his career and just did fight training, you know?
01:59:47.000And then you look at Jon Jones right now who's totally getting into all this powerlifting stuff.
02:00:14.000He's just an incredible athlete, and what he's been able to do to top-level fighters really early on in his career is nothing short of amazing.
02:00:22.000If he has a wake-up call from all this and just cuts the bullshit and focuses on just taking advantage of the prime, because he's in his prime.