The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #725 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

00:00:00.000 I have been looking forward to this podcast for a long time, gentlemen.

00:00:05.000 This is about as cool a podcast.

00:00:07.000 For me, as a fan, this is like one of my favorite ones because Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock together and your new book, Magicians of the Gods, is it out officially everywhere now?

00:00:18.000 Yeah, it's published on the 10th of November.

00:00:21.000 Fantastic.

00:00:21.000 All over the U.S. All over the U.S. And Randall, you guys together is so exciting to me because I know you guys spent a lot of time together and you were working together on just this current project.

00:00:34.000 We did a fantastic research trip across the Channel Scablands of Washington State, which Randall has been walking the walk on for decades.

00:00:41.000 And he just showed me the absolute irrefutable evidence of cataclysmic flooding in that area.

00:00:48.000 And it plays a very important part in the book.

00:00:51.000 North America was the epicenter of a global cataclysm between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago.

00:00:57.000 And when you see it through Randall's eyes, you get it immediately.

00:01:01.000 This whole subject, you know, since you've been on my podcast and you've been on the podcast, is something that comes up.

00:01:09.000 I mean, I'm not kidding.

00:01:10.000 Four or five times a week, someone will grab me and ask me, when is Graham coming back on again?

00:01:15.000 When's Randall coming back?

00:01:16.000 And when I tell people that you guys are coming on together, People will start freaking out.

00:01:20.000 So, you know, we've been saying before this that people are taking time off work.

00:01:23.000 They're having little viewing parties.

00:01:26.000 So to you people out there, we're just as excited as you are.

00:01:30.000 So tell me what's been going on.

00:01:33.000 So tell me the Washington State thing.

00:01:35.000 Tell me what you guys saw and what picture evidence and what was revealed.

00:01:41.000 I'm gonna pass that one to Randall first off.

00:01:46.000 Well, we were basically traveling.

00:01:48.000 What we did was we traveled from Portland to the Twin Cities.

00:01:52.000 And what we did was essentially followed the southern margin of the Great Ice Sheet.

00:01:57.000 For the most part.

00:01:58.000 And what we were looking at was this evidence that the whole ice sheet had undergone this massive catastrophic sudden meltdown.

00:02:06.000 And basically what we saw in the landscape was evidence that was oceanic level currents flowing off the ice sheets.

00:02:16.000 In fact, the geologists that have been looking at this use a term called Sverdrup, Which was originally contrived to, and it's a million cubic meters per second.

00:02:31.000 And they originally came up with it to talk about ocean currents, like the Gulf Stream and so on.

00:02:37.000 Not realizing that down the road it was actually going to be applied to currents that were flowing over the land.

00:02:44.000 But that's what we were looking at.

00:02:46.000 Spell that word?

00:02:47.000 It's named after the scientists that first came up with the concept.

00:02:54.000 It's S-V-E-R-D-R-U-P, Sverdrup.

00:02:58.000 It's a million cubic meters per second.

00:03:05.000 Whoa.

00:03:06.000 Which is very difficult to even envision.

00:03:09.000 But when you see it on the landscape, I mean, for example, there's a place called the Camas Prairie that Randall took me to, where you see these kind of ripples in the ground, and they look a little bit like current ripples on the beach, you know?

00:03:21.000 But actually, they are current ripples, but they're 50 feet high and hundreds and hundreds of feet long, and they're That receding flood left those ripples on that landscape.

00:03:31.000 Then, above the town of Wenatchee, there's a gigantic boulder which didn't come from Wenatchee.

00:03:36.000 It weighs 18,000 tons, and it got there in an iceberg the size of an oil tanker.

00:03:42.000 I think?

00:04:02.000 18,000 tons.

00:04:05.000 You just threw out some giant numbers.

00:04:08.000 The meters per second and the 18,000 tons.

00:04:12.000 A ton is 2,000, so 18,000 tons is 18,000 two-thousands.

00:04:16.000 So it's 36 million?

00:04:18.000 Yeah, if you want, I can pull up some images.

00:04:20.000 Is that what that is?

00:04:21.000 Yeah, something of that order.

00:04:22.000 Let's just say, really fucking big.

00:04:25.000 I mean, an enormous thing.

00:04:27.000 And the fact is, if there was just one, it would be spectacular.

00:04:29.000 But there's thousands of them.

00:04:31.000 They're all just washed away by this water.

00:04:33.000 So when the ice caps suddenly melted down, and we know now that that happened because of the impact of several fragments of a giant comet back 12,800 years ago.

00:04:42.000 It released a huge flood of meltwater, and that meltwater carried, it was jostling with icebergs, huge icebergs.

00:04:47.000 And many of these icebergs had rocks enchained within them.

00:04:51.000 As glacial ice moves, it snatches up and enchains rock and keeps it inside.

00:04:57.000 There's a name for them.

00:04:57.000 They're called glacial erratics.

00:04:59.000 And so they're in these icebergs and the icebergs are jostling against each other and the flood is ripped up whole forests by its roots and there's mud and there's rubble and it's rumbling and it's...

00:05:08.000 And you see it all on the landscape up there.

00:05:10.000 And this is all carbon dated to this time period?

00:05:13.000 The dating is very secure.

00:05:15.000 Very secure.

00:05:15.000 Wow.

00:05:16.000 Oh my god.

00:05:17.000 If we look here at the image, now this is not from the catastrophic flood we're talking about here.

00:05:23.000 Obviously.

00:05:24.000 But interestingly enough, this was a 100-year flood that happened in Georgia back in 2004. And what we had was a floodplain that got overtopped for the first time in decades, and it left these current ripples here.

00:05:37.000 And I use this slide to show what we're used to on the scale of phenomena that we would normally see, this kind of phenomena.

00:05:45.000 Right.

00:05:45.000 So this is a normal, very large, major storm that makes sense.

00:05:50.000 This was Hurricane Ivan when it came through in 2004. They referred to it as a 100-year flood.

00:05:57.000 Right.

00:05:57.000 So this is a massive storm, but it's nothing out of the ordinary, really.

00:06:01.000 Right.

00:06:02.000 It's rare, but huge.

00:06:03.000 Yeah, it's rare.

00:06:04.000 What you'll see here is, you know, I've got a measuring tape here.

00:06:07.000 You're going to see the wavelength is about three inches.

00:06:09.000 The amplitude, the vertical height of these things is about three-quarters of an inch.

00:06:14.000 And so these are all, what we're looking at is all dried dirt that has sand.

00:06:19.000 It's been rippled.

00:06:20.000 It's been carried along, swept along in this water that was over this floodplain, which was two feet deep.

00:06:27.000 Carried along, and as the water declined, it deposited this sand and then rippled it as the final stages.

00:06:35.000 And we're looking at this at what year?

00:06:36.000 How long after the storm was this?

00:06:38.000 This was...

00:06:39.000 A week or two after the storm, because within a month this was all obscured by wind and everything.

00:06:46.000 So now you've got this by comparison.

00:06:49.000 We'll go to this.

00:06:50.000 This is what Graham was just talking about, Camas Prairie.

00:06:53.000 And what you see here is there's ranches out there, and you've got this 10 mile long field of these gigantic ripples.

00:07:03.000 And if you look up in the upper left hand corner of the screen, you can see some of these ripples.

00:07:08.000 They're, like Graham said, they're 100 to 300 feet in wavelength and they're up to 50 feet in amplitude.

00:07:17.000 And the water that flowed through here that deposited this was over a thousand feet deep.

00:07:23.000 So this is fractal.

00:07:24.000 This is fractal.

00:07:25.000 You get it in the small scale, in the first image Randall showed, the same phenomenon there with a flood just two feet deep, and then we come to this humongous testimony to what happened 12,800 years ago.

00:07:38.000 And it's easy to drive through it and not really figure what you're driving through, but once you look at it and realize what happened, it really dilates the imagination.

00:07:47.000 So this must have been just an absolutely enormous event when it happened, and Really sudden.

00:07:54.000 Unimaginable.

00:07:55.000 Unimaginable.

00:07:56.000 And human beings lived through that and it changed everything.

00:08:00.000 These, they're called extinction-level events.

00:08:03.000 These global cataclysms wipe the slate clean.

00:08:07.000 They change everything and they set a new order in motion.

00:08:10.000 A new order follows that.

00:08:12.000 So the classic example is the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.

00:08:15.000 That turned dinosaurs into chickens, you know.

00:08:19.000 They were gone and it opened the way for mammals.

00:08:21.000 And our distant ancestor is a sort of 65-million-year-old shrew, which was going nowhere until the dinosaurs were wiped by a cosmic impact.

00:08:31.000 And then they began to evolve, and here we are.

00:08:34.000 So dinosaurs became chickens and shrews became human beings.

00:08:37.000 That's almost harder for me to imagine than this.

00:08:40.000 This is very hard for me to wrap my head around, but that we came from a shrew 65 million years ago is almost harder.

00:08:46.000 That's the story of evolution.

00:08:49.000 One can buy into it or not.

00:08:50.000 But certainly mammals were going nowhere before the dinosaurs were swept out of the way.

00:08:55.000 And the point I'm making is that these events, which are called extinction-level events, they reset the clock.

00:09:02.000 They make everything start again.

00:09:04.000 And this is why what happened in North America 12,800 years ago is so important.

00:09:34.000 It's very intriguing new information, but we cannot any longer Trust the established model of the origins of civilization since it does not take into account an extinction-level event right in the foundations.

00:09:46.000 And that's why I say the House of History appears to be built on foundations of sand.

00:09:50.000 Now, this hasn't been adopted yet, but is it resisted?

00:09:55.000 Has the mainstream...

00:09:56.000 Yes.

00:09:57.000 It is.

00:09:57.000 It's being resisted.

00:09:58.000 Whenever you propose a cataclysm, Of any kind.

00:10:03.000 It's a curious thing.

00:10:04.000 I don't know whether it's psychological or something more sinister than that.

00:10:07.000 But whenever you propose that and present evidence for it, you can be sure that you will be descended upon by a furious crowd of critics.

00:10:15.000 And the group of scientists, more than 30 of them, very significant mainstream scientists who've been presenting the evidence for the comet impact, have had a fight on their hands.

00:10:24.000 Since 2007. But I can say with confidence, and I detail it at length in the book, that they have won that fight.

00:10:31.000 Every criticism that's been made of their work, they have refuted.

00:10:34.000 And they've come back with new evidence, sometimes three or four papers a year.

00:10:38.000 And it's a compelling case, and we can't ignore it, Tony.

00:10:40.000 Well, it seems to me as a casual observer, probably more into it than the average person, but not even close to you guys, that as this evidence piles up, like the nuclear glass that they keep finding, it's about 12,000.

00:10:56.000 That's one of what they call the impact proxies.

00:10:58.000 See, what we've got to consider is that we are looking at objects which might be a mile wide that are coming into the atmosphere at 70,000 miles an hour, and they are hot.

00:11:09.000 Some people will remember Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 that hit Jupiter back in 1994. That was a small comet, just two kilometers wide, broke into about 20 fragments.

00:11:19.000 The explosive power of those impacts on Jupiter was 300 gigatons.

00:11:25.000 Now, let me put that into perspective.

00:11:27.000 The entire world's nuclear arsenal, were it to go off at once, would be 6.4 gigatons.

00:11:33.000 So you're looking at something beyond imagination.

00:11:37.000 The power of these impacts is absolutely colossal.

00:11:41.000 Numbers don't do it.

00:11:42.000 Just imagine a world on fire, a world that changed forever.

00:11:45.000 The explosion that hit Jupiter was about the size of the Earth, too, right?

00:11:49.000 No, no, no.

00:11:50.000 This was a comet.

00:11:51.000 I mean, the plume itself.

00:11:55.000 It was like the size of the Earth.

00:11:57.000 Absolutely.

00:11:58.000 So we're looking at something that, when it happened, What's the timeline around, the calculations around somewhere around 11,000 years ago?

00:12:08.000 Well, there's actually a period.

00:12:09.000 This is an episode rather than a single incident, and that's part of the mystery.

00:12:14.000 First off, there are the impacts 12,800 years ago.

00:12:18.000 That causes this cataclysm centered on North America, but global.

00:12:22.000 And global temperature plummets.

00:12:24.000 I mean, people who talk about global warming today, the change in temperature 12,800 years ago was just stunning.

00:12:31.000 And this is undeniable.

00:12:32.000 Randall's detailed this in depth the last time he was here with mainstream scientific data that's irrefutable.

00:12:39.000 Absolutely.

00:12:40.000 Core samples, ice core samples, things along those lines.

00:12:43.000 I'll just call it the Younger Dry Ass, and it's a 1,200-year period.

00:12:47.000 Temperatures plunge at the beginning, massive animal extinctions, and then 1,200 years later, equally suddenly, temperatures shoot up again, dramatically.

00:12:58.000 And there's another series of floods.

00:13:00.000 So the period is 12,800 to 11,600 years ago.

00:13:04.000 And I think, I don't know if Randall agrees, we're sure that the comet...

00:13:08.000 Was the cause of the first event, 12,800 years ago.

00:13:12.000 I think other bits of the comet were responsible for the second event as well.

00:13:15.000 I think there was an impact in ocean, which threw water vapor up into the upper atmosphere, caused a greenhouse effect, and created that sudden spike in warming and that huge flood.

00:13:25.000 Those two warming spikes show up very dramatically in the Greenland ice cores.

00:13:29.000 And I pulled these up, I think, in the last meeting, but it would be good to reference it again.

00:13:34.000 And basically what you see here is...

00:13:37.000 Warming spike number one is here and warming spike number two is here and these were extreme.

00:13:47.000 You know we're talking about 10 degrees centigrade roughly in perhaps a year or two and this translates into about 17 or 18 degrees Fahrenheit.

00:13:58.000 So we're talking many times greater than the the warming of the last century or two.

00:14:05.000 Instantly basically just like that and this this is this this what we see here brackets this this whole episode of this this period of transition from the glacial age to this nice warm Holocene interglacial age that we're in now and You know Graham brought up about how this sits right at the very foundation of our modern history and if you look at Whether it's the dispersion of languages,

00:14:31.000 the beginning of agriculture, the first cities, the domestication of animals, what you see over and over again is the same dates showing up, you know, eight, nine, ten thousand years ago.

00:14:40.000 And in this model that we're describing here, we're not really seeing the genesis of civilization, we're seeing the rebooting.

00:14:53.000 It's the only thing that makes sense.

00:14:55.000 We have now the data that makes sense of what previously has been very mysterious and unexplained evidence.

00:15:07.000 To me, this is so fascinating because I've been a fan of your book since, God, more than a decade, right?

00:15:14.000 When did it come out?

00:15:15.000 In the 90s?

00:15:15.000 Well, Fingerprints of the Gods was published in 1995, which is 20 years ago.

00:15:20.000 And Magicians of the Gods, the new book, is the sequel to Fingerprints.

00:15:23.000 And I've written it because there's just this massive new information that changes the whole picture completely.

00:15:29.000 Fingerprints of the Gods, I started reading sometime in the late 90s and just became...

00:15:34.000 We're engrossed in it and fascinated by this concept that civilization, and as you put it, that we are a species that has amnesia, and that we just forgot what our past was.

00:15:46.000 But the two of you together is what's so fascinating, because it puts this puzzle together.

00:15:51.000 Your obsession with asteroidal impacts and these massive extinction events And your knowledge of this ancient architecture that doesn't make any sense, and these ancient construction methods that seem to differ, and the timelines,

00:16:07.000 and for people who aren't aware of the whole story behind it, the erosion, the enclosure of the Sphinx, where they made the Sphinx, has thousands of years of rainfall erosion.

00:16:19.000 That doesn't make any sense, because the last time there was rain in the Nile Valley was like 9000 BC, which is Yes.

00:16:27.000 Really, the climate of Egypt has been as dry as it is today for about the last 5,000 years.

00:16:34.000 So you actually have to go back to this period, to this Younger Dryas period, to get those heavy rainfalls that could have eroded the Sphinx in the way it is.

00:16:42.000 And I want to pay tribute to the work of John Anthony West and Robert Shock from Boston University because they broke this story way back in 1992. And at the time, the Egyptological establishment, of course, were furious that anybody dared to suggest that the Sphinx might be 12,000 years old.

00:16:59.000 The Egyptologists said, we know the Sphinx dates from 2500 BC. Actually, one of the things I've done in this book is look at what the Egyptological case rests on.

00:17:08.000 And it's a fairy tale.

00:17:09.000 It rests on nothing.

00:17:10.000 It's kind of ideology.

00:17:12.000 It's their idea of how things should be, rather than any real factual evidence that puts the Sphinx at 2500 BC. And the geology puts the Sphinx much, much older.

00:17:23.000 Now, the argument of the archaeologists at the time was, and anyway, the Sphinx couldn't possibly be 12,000 years old, because if that was the work of some unknown culture 12,000 years ago, we're going to find lots of other monuments around the world that are 12,000 years old,

00:17:38.000 and we don't find any.

00:17:39.000 Well, that was 1992. But now we're in 2015, and the site of Göbekli Tepe in Turkey has been discovered with its Gigantic megaliths, a deliberately buried time capsule, buried more than 10,000 years ago and created 11,500 years ago.

00:17:58.000 And if you can make Gobekli Tepe, you can make the Sphinx.

00:18:01.000 We are finding the fingerprints of this lost civilization popping up all around the world.

00:18:06.000 Indeed, on any archaeological site where you can be absolutely sure of the dating.

00:18:12.000 The dating proves to be much older than we have been taught by archaeologists.

00:18:16.000 They recently discovered a huge megalithic site 40 meters underwater in the Sicily Channel.

00:18:22.000 It's been underwater for the best part of 10,000 years, which means that megalithic site is at least that old and maybe much older.

00:18:29.000 And we can be sure about the dating because it's underwater.

00:18:33.000 Likewise, we can be sure of the dating of Gobekli Tepe because whoever made it, deliberately buried it, sealed it, and no later organic material...

00:18:40.000 Got in to contaminate the carbon dating record and give falsely young deaths.

00:18:44.000 And if they didn't bury it, someone else during that time period buried it.

00:18:48.000 Somebody buried it.

00:18:49.000 We don't know when it was built, but we know it's buried at least 10,000 plus years ago.

00:18:54.000 Well, the dates that are coming out of it now, the earliest dates.

00:18:56.000 Now, it's important to be clear that there's much more of Gobekli Tepe under the ground.

00:19:01.000 There's actually about 50 times as much as has already been excavated.

00:19:07.000 Which is under the ground still and not been dug up yet.

00:19:09.000 They know it's there because they've been over the whole site with ground-penetrating radar.

00:19:13.000 And what they're seeing is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these huge 20 to 50-ton T-shaped megalithic pillars buried under the ground.

00:19:22.000 Somebody, just as somebody...

00:19:33.000 And that whole pot-bellied hill that covers this site was artificially put there by human beings, teams of men and women with buckets filled with rubble and stones, filling it in and covering it up.

00:19:45.000 So strange.

00:19:46.000 And there's no guesses or theories as to why they did this?

00:19:52.000 Really not.

00:19:53.000 There's not.

00:19:54.000 It's just a fact that it happened because archaeologists and geologists can tell from the nature of the material that covers these pillars that it isn't a natural sedimentation, that they were deliberately covered up.

00:20:05.000 What's got to be satisfying to you guys, two obsessed crazy men come together and your theories lock in like puzzle pieces and ha-ha!

00:20:13.000 Well, you've got the right word there because this is...

00:20:16.000 Obsessed crazy men.

00:20:17.000 Yes, definitely.

00:20:18.000 I'm glad you're obsessed crazy men.

00:20:20.000 I say that with all love and respect.

00:20:21.000 I put my hat up to that.

00:20:24.000 Absolutely.

00:20:24.000 You've got to be a bit obsessed to stick with something like this.

00:20:27.000 You know, I came in for an enormous amount of criticism and flack when I published I'm human.

00:20:33.000 It hurts when people say really bad things about me.

00:20:36.000 But what I've learned is you just have to persist.

00:20:39.000 You just have to keep going.

00:20:41.000 Even if your ideas are shouted down by the established holders of knowledge in our society, if you feel strongly enough about those ideas, you've got to hang with them.

00:20:51.000 And I've hung with these ideas for more than 20 years now.

00:20:54.000 What we're seeing is just a mass of new evidence that basically vindicates the notion of a lost civilization.

00:21:02.000 See, if I may say, Gobekli Tepe, the earliest dates they've pulled out of the ground now, which they think is the foundation of the site, is 11,600 years ago.

00:21:12.000 And that is really significant because 11,600 years ago was the second episode of cataclysm at the end of the Younger Dryas.

00:21:19.000 And we know it was accompanied by massive global flooding.

00:21:23.000 Is it possible that this was covered up then?

00:21:26.000 That it wasn't covered up intentionally by people?

00:21:29.000 That it was covered up as a part of that cataclysm?

00:21:31.000 No.

00:21:31.000 It was made after the cataclysm was over.

00:21:34.000 And archaeologists have a problem with this because the site is very sophisticated.

00:21:38.000 It contains the world's first perfectly north-south aligned structure.

00:21:42.000 And you can't do that without precise astronomy.

00:21:45.000 In fact, there are huge astronomical implications to the Gobekli Tepe site.

00:21:50.000 The architecture is Is massive.

00:21:52.000 And you see, the problem archaeology has is that up till now, they've been teaching us that megalithic sites like this, astronomically and megalithic sites like this, are a maximum of five to five and a half thousand years old.

00:22:04.000 And suddenly we're looking at a site which is far bigger than any other megalithic site known in the world, which is at least six thousand years older than any other known site.

00:22:13.000 So how do they explain this?

00:22:15.000 Our ancestors are supposed to have been just hunter-gatherers at that time, nomads, following the game.

00:22:20.000 Not with...

00:22:21.000 A sophisticated societal organization that would have specialists who had these knowledge, who had these skills, who could put this work together.

00:22:28.000 So the fairy tale archaeologists are now telling about Gobekli Tepe is that one morning a group of hunter-gatherers woke up somehow divinely inspired with the complete knowledge of megalithic architecture and how to organize a workforce and how to bring them to a site, which, by the way,

00:22:43.000 there's no water on that site, and to put this whole proposition together.

00:22:48.000 And at the same time, Exactly at the same moment, 11,600 years ago, we suddenly get evidence of agriculture spreading all over Turkey.

00:22:55.000 It's like Göbekli Tepe is a center of innovation and associated with it is the birth of agriculture in Turkey.

00:23:02.000 And to me, this looks like a transfer of technology.

00:23:07.000 It does not look to me like a group of hunter-gatherers woke up one morning magically equipped with the ability to invent agriculture and create a megalithic site like this.

00:23:15.000 It looks to me like people who already have that knowledge.

00:23:18.000 We're good to go.

00:23:35.000 is the date that Plato gives us for the destruction and submergence by flood of the lost civilization of Atlantis and up till now archaeologists have dismissed the whole Atlantis story and they regard it as kind of pseudoscience although it comes from Plato but Plato said very clearly that this happened 9,000 years before the time of Solon and Solon lived in 600 BC so Plato is telling us Atlantis went down 9,600 BC,

00:24:02.000 11,600 years ago.

00:24:05.000 Exactly the date of the second spike of the Younger Dryas Cataclysm.

00:24:08.000 If you look here at this graph, we see...

00:24:10.000 Randall, pull this sucker up close to you so that you get a little bit more...

00:24:13.000 We can see here, these are studies of sea level rise at the end of the Ice Age.

00:24:19.000 And rather than it being a smooth curve, which was the old model, which you can see represented by the dashed line, It's two enormous spikes.

00:24:28.000 And that second spike, you see MWP-1B, that's Meltwater Pulse 1B. And you've got Meltwater Pulse 1A. Meltwater Pulse 1B is dated precisely to 11,600 years ago.

00:24:43.000 This is crazy.

00:24:44.000 It's like everything aligns.

00:24:46.000 Everything aligns.

00:24:47.000 The nuclear glass that they're finding and the core samples, that's all around the same time period.

00:24:53.000 This was the point I wanted to make.

00:24:55.000 When we talk about these objects coming in at 70,000 miles an hour, they are packing an enormous amount of kinetic energy and heat, and when they hit the ground...

00:25:04.000 There are distinct products left in the soil and those include nanodiamonds.

00:25:10.000 They're created by the shock and the impact.

00:25:12.000 You can only see them under a microscope.

00:25:14.000 They're tiny, tiny, tiny things.

00:25:16.000 And carbon spherules and the melt glass, which is just basically identical to trinitite, which is the melt glass that you get from nuclear explosions.

00:25:24.000 They're called impact proxies and there's a distinct layer of the soil all around the world.

00:25:29.000 Dated to 12,800 years ago, which contains this stuff and also contains the evidence of continental wildfires burning.

00:25:38.000 And I think Randall might want to address that issue of continental wildfires and why they happened.

00:25:42.000 All these images are beautiful, but let's note that most people are just listening to this.

00:25:47.000 So if you're just listening to this, those images that Randall put up on the screen show these enormous straight up and down spikes of the water level rising, which...

00:26:00.000 Ocean level rising, which has to be caused by something extremely dramatic.

00:26:06.000 Just looking at that, like, wow, what happened there?

00:26:09.000 That's nuts.

00:26:11.000 That's the melting of the ice sheets.

00:26:13.000 The sudden, rapid, catastrophic meltdown of the ice sheets.

00:26:17.000 Dumping millions of cubic...

00:26:22.000 We're good to go.

00:26:40.000 The earliest version of it is the spike you see on the right.

00:26:43.000 The latest version, as you see, is on the left.

00:26:45.000 And it varies between about 14,000 and 13,000 years for the first spike.

00:26:50.000 The second spike is dating now to about, like I said, about 11,600.

00:26:55.000 The numbers across the bottom are KYR means thousands of years before present.

00:27:01.000 So you can see 9, 10, that would be 10,000 years ago.

00:27:05.000 So essentially it seems like our Earth went through like a thousand years of horror.

00:27:10.000 A thousand years of hell.

00:27:12.000 It's really impossible to imagine what the world was like then for the people who lived in it.

00:27:18.000 And I think it makes sense.

00:27:20.000 of why all around the world we have a story of a global flood.

00:27:24.000 This is not something confined to the story of Noah in the Bible.

00:27:28.000 This is a universal story of a cataclysm that changed the world and wiped away a former golden age and left us with the present order of things.

00:27:37.000 All around the world, and secondly all around the world, and this is intriguing, there is a universal fear of comets.

00:27:43.000 Now why should we be afraid of comets?

00:27:45.000 We see comets up in the sky, they whiz through, they have this nice tail, they look pretty.

00:27:49.000 Why should we be scared of them?

00:27:50.000 But every culture in the world has myths and traditions that...

00:27:54.000 Associate comets with disaster.

00:27:57.000 And I think it's pretty obvious why.

00:27:59.000 Because this comet impact 12,800 years ago was remembered by the survivors.

00:28:04.000 And they passed that memory down to their children and their children's children.

00:28:08.000 And it's still with us today.

00:28:10.000 And it's now we know based on something very real.

00:28:13.000 Well, it seems like to me, as a layperson, with all this evidence, and all this evidence that correlates, it's all corresponding, it all seems to fit together, it would seem that this would be something that a lot of mainstream scientists and archaeologists would be extremely interested in.

00:28:28.000 Like, why would they try to ignore something like this?

00:28:31.000 The first thing they've tried to do is to get rid of it.

00:28:34.000 This is often the case where new information emerges that contradicts established theories.

00:28:41.000 And it's a strange phenomenon in science because we like to think of scientists as rational and reasonable people.

00:28:48.000 But the fact is that when you get very committed to a particular model, to a particular idea, I think you start to connect your own personality to it.

00:28:55.000 And any attack on that idea becomes an existential attack on you yourself.

00:28:59.000 How sad.

00:29:00.000 And it is sad because again and again what we see is the new facts Being dismissed because they don't fit the existing theory, where in fact what we should be doing is modifying the existing theory to explain the newly discovered facts.

00:29:15.000 And this is a problem in the whole history of science.

00:29:18.000 Well, I remember when I first became aware of that problem when I watched the documentary on the Mysteries of the Sphinx where Dr. Robert Schock met with some archaeologist in Egypt.

00:29:30.000 It wasn't Zawi Hawass, it was a Western guy.

00:29:33.000 And he met with this guy, and they were explaining their theory about the erosions of the Sphinx, and he was laughing at it, but openly mocking it.

00:29:43.000 Like, what evidence?

00:29:44.000 Where is this evidence?

00:29:45.000 But it was the way he did it was just so riddled with ego.

00:29:49.000 I was like, how could you?

00:29:50.000 First of all, the concept of 11,000 years ago, when you start thinking about 11,000, that's a long time.

00:29:57.000 You bet.

00:29:58.000 And what evidence really would be there other than stone?

00:30:01.000 It seems to me that it would be very little.

00:30:04.000 I mean, whatever fragments of pottery you'd be lucky to find.

00:30:08.000 We're lucky to find it.

00:30:09.000 But looking for some massive evidence that clearly shows, beyond any shadow of an hour, here it is.

00:30:15.000 I go, boy, you're asking for a lot from 11,000 years ago.

00:30:19.000 And you have something pretty substantial right in front of you.

00:30:22.000 And he's mocking it.

00:30:23.000 Exactly.

00:30:24.000 This is why...

00:30:25.000 I've come to view archaeology and history as a kind of more ideology, really, than science.

00:30:32.000 There's an ideological view about how civilization developed, that we have this long, slow, gradual, politically correct rise from the Upper Paleolithic, from the hunter-gatherers, through the Neolithic, into the first cities.

00:30:48.000 We go on and on, and then we develop technologies, and here we are, the apex and the pinnacle of this whole story.

00:30:54.000 And gosh, we're so proud of ourselves and our achievements, and we think we're wonderful, and we praise and value our technology.

00:31:01.000 I've got nothing against technology, but there's a hint of arrogance in this.

00:31:05.000 There's a hint of pride that it was all about us.

00:31:09.000 And I think that once you start introducing this new view of history, that there may have been an earlier civilization, A high civilization which was utterly wiped out by a global cataclysm.

00:31:22.000 Why, it contradicts that ideological position.

00:31:24.000 And you find yourself in ideological struggle with archaeologists.

00:31:27.000 And that's why, you know, so for example, if my book is handed over to any archaeologist to review, they're just going to piss all over it.

00:31:33.000 They're not even probably going to read it.

00:31:35.000 They're just going to say, Hancock, they say again and again, Hancock is a pseudoscientist.

00:31:38.000 Nobody should listen to him.

00:31:40.000 That's their system of attack, is to first of all devalue you.

00:31:44.000 So much that nobody will ever listen to you and that's why I appreciate the support of just real down-to-earth people out there who are looking at this information and finding that actually, yeah, the story of history we've been taught doesn't make sense and this new information does make sense of it.

00:31:59.000 Well, this new information in my eyes, it seems it's so substantial and there's so much of it, so much of it fits together.

00:32:07.000 It's incredibly difficult to ignore and much more so than when that documentary in the Sphinx was created.

00:32:14.000 That was quite a while ago.

00:32:16.000 Charlton Heston was the narrator of it.

00:32:19.000 And, you know, at that time, we were sticking our necks out, putting that information forward.

00:32:25.000 I was in that documentary as well.

00:32:27.000 But today, things have changed.

00:32:29.000 And what I see is the archaeological mainstream in a state of denial about this information.

00:32:35.000 They just don't want to recognize it and absorb it.

00:32:37.000 But they're going to have to recognize it.

00:32:39.000 It's going to be forced upon them, whether they like it or not.

00:32:42.000 It's so sad because you count on these people to distribute the information, but their egos get involved in things, and if you've been teaching something for a long time, then it turns out you gave out master's degrees on things that were completely incorrect.

00:32:57.000 Absolutely.

00:32:58.000 It's got to be very hard.

00:33:00.000 And something else, although this sounds a bit conspiratorial, I think the existing view of history Is part of a mind control system in our society.

00:33:09.000 It's something that we're presented with, that we take in with our mother's milk, and we're never supposed to question.

00:33:15.000 I think if you control the past, you do actually control the present and the future as well.

00:33:20.000 But you mean if you have an absolutely established narrative that you're teaching and you're unwilling to look at any possible variations to that, you're saying, like, almost from an authority position, we know what happened and we know where we're going.

00:33:35.000 Yeah.

00:33:35.000 But if you say, shit, we don't know what happened, then who are you to tell us where we're going?

00:33:41.000 Exactly.

00:33:41.000 And it starts to raise questions over everything, actually.

00:33:44.000 Right.

00:33:44.000 And we're kind of in this mode now where there's a very large, growing political agenda around the idea that humans are the sole cause of global change.

00:33:57.000 And that we're the dominant force within this whole process.

00:34:00.000 Now here we come along and we're saying, well, no, there's actually been forces unleashed on this planet that really utterly dwarf anything we've done yet.

00:34:09.000 What does that do to that paradigm?

00:34:12.000 You see, that's what I think we're coming down here to.

00:34:15.000 Part of the The scenario now is that humans are engaged in causing the sixth great mass extinction, as we talked about in one of the previous.

00:34:25.000 And now we're coming along and saying, well wait a second, here's something from outer space that has come in and caused the last great mass extinction on Earth.

00:34:33.000 And what's interesting, I found, is that quite a number of the The scientists that have been in the opposition to the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis have been in the forefront of pushing this scenario of human-caused mass extinction and blaming the extinction of the great megafauna that died out 12,000 years ago on human hunters.

00:34:57.000 Which again, we talked about that and I consider that ludicrous that paleo-Indian hunters using spears are going to It caused the extermination of 10 million woolly mammoths before they could even reproduce, along with 120 other species of megafauna.

00:35:13.000 Well, 65% of all mammals in North America were wiped out somewhere around that time.

00:35:18.000 Wiped out.

00:35:19.000 Mega mammals.

00:35:20.000 Mega mammals.

00:35:20.000 Which is over 100 pounds in body weight, essentially.

00:35:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:24.000 Actually more, like 75%.

00:35:26.000 It was almost instantaneous, right?

00:35:29.000 I mean, it was over a course of a very short period of time.

00:35:31.000 Very short period of time.

00:35:33.000 The scientists who have been diligently working away in this field since they've published their first paper in 2007 have just brought out a new paper, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

00:35:57.000 We're looking at something that happened effectively in a single afternoon across 50 million square kilometers of the Earth's surface.

00:36:09.000 Ooh, that gives me goosebumps.

00:36:11.000 A single afternoon all over the world, everything changes forever.

00:36:17.000 Changes forever.

00:36:17.000 And it's fucked for a thousand years.

00:36:19.000 Absolutely.

00:36:20.000 Absolutely.

00:36:21.000 And then I'd like, Randall, to address this issue of continent-wide wildfires, because we do see this in the stratum, that when you get this superheated ejector coming down on ancient primal forests, consider the effect.

00:36:32.000 This is Murray Springs.

00:36:35.000 One of the Clovis sites, and this is what is known as the black matte layer.

00:36:39.000 Where is Murray Springs?

00:36:40.000 It's in Arizona.

00:36:42.000 And it's southern Arizona.

00:36:44.000 And it's near the Clovis site, which is New Mexico.

00:36:49.000 That's the Clovis impact site?

00:36:51.000 Well, no.

00:36:52.000 The Clovis site was one of the first places in North America where human remains were found in association with extinct mega mammals, such as woolly mammoths.

00:37:02.000 And it's just outside of Clovis, New Mexico.

00:37:05.000 They refer to them as the Clovis culture.

00:37:07.000 And because that culture was one of the casualties of this comet impact, the comet impact is often referred to as the Clovis comet.

00:37:14.000 Yes.

00:37:15.000 And many of these Clovis sites, and there's been over 50 of them around now documented over North America, I think about two-thirds of them have this black matte layer which shows up very clearly in this image.

00:37:26.000 Now that black matte layer is black because of the considerable amount of carbon So in other words, right there, that's the evidence of your wildfires, is that this blanket of soot over the continent that left this black matte layer.

00:37:43.000 And below that black matte layer, you'll find extinct Mega mammals, like here, you see the yellow arrow there points to the black matte layer.

00:37:53.000 Now if you look up, you'll see how it's more buff colored.

00:37:56.000 That was the color of all of this, but the soot that was in that black matte layer has dispersed and colored the other adjacent layers.

00:38:05.000 But you'll notice the bones below are the bones of extinct mammals.

00:38:09.000 The bones found above it are extant, or still existing mammals.

00:38:13.000 And that layer separates These two domains of extinct mammals and extant mammals.

00:38:23.000 Just a very clear line.

00:38:24.000 Yeah, and you can see it.

00:38:26.000 It shows up so clearly right...

00:38:28.000 To people who are listening to this, when we're looking at the original image that Randall showed, it's almost like an Oreo cookie.

00:38:34.000 Like, there's just a clean line, and then there's the white filling underneath.

00:38:38.000 I mean, it is as clear as day.

00:38:41.000 What are we talking about?

00:38:42.000 Like, how much fire and for how long creates this area?

00:38:47.000 Well, you're basically talking about burning up a considerable portion of the biomass of North America, in un-glaciated North America, to do this.

00:38:57.000 So you have the ice cap north of roughly Minnesota, and south of it you have a heavily vegetated area covered with primal forests, and that's what goes on fire.

00:39:07.000 And the reason it goes on fire is because when these impactors come in, they generate a huge amount of heat, and what is called ejector, superheated ejector, is thrown up into the upper atmosphere, and it falls down all over the continent, and it sets the world on fire.

00:39:21.000 Oh, God!

00:39:23.000 This perspective is so difficult in this.

00:39:26.000 It's a difficult perspective.

00:39:27.000 Because there's numbers that you guys are throwing around and there's concepts that you're throwing around that I just have to pause.

00:39:34.000 I go, wait a minute.

00:39:35.000 I've got to try to fit this in somewhere.

00:39:37.000 But it's the whole world on fire.

00:39:40.000 Yeah.

00:39:41.000 This is why I've written this book, because it's mind-boggling.

00:39:44.000 It's mind-boggling material.

00:39:46.000 And up till now, most of the information has been confined to the really rarefied scientific journals.

00:39:53.000 Very little of it has got out into the public domain.

00:39:56.000 So one of the things I've tried to do is to put this together into a form that's very accessible to the general public, because we all need to know about this.

00:40:03.000 This is our yesterday.

00:40:04.000 This is our background.

00:40:06.000 This is where we come from.

00:40:08.000 The present order of the world Has descended from that moment.

00:40:12.000 And what is the mainstream explanation for what we're looking at here?

00:40:16.000 Like, how do they describe this?

00:40:18.000 Well, the mainstream, I mean, the mainstream, to me now, is Firestone and West and Kennedy.

00:40:22.000 Yeah, and when Ronald says Firestone and West and Kennedy, he's talking about some of the lead scientists who have presented the evidence for the Younger Dryas impact because they have triumphed.

00:40:31.000 Although they were attacked, and sometimes viciously, and frankly speaking, sometimes dishonestly, they were attacked.

00:40:38.000 But they defended themselves so well, and they kept on bringing in new data and new information that actually now we should be regarding their view as the mainstream.

00:40:46.000 There are a few critics still hanging in there who would like human beings to have been responsible for the extinction of all the mega mammals and who just are in denial about the climate change at that time.

00:40:58.000 They're no longer the mainstream, in my view.

00:41:00.000 Well, one of the problems with that theory is what you showed the last time you were here, the evidence of these woolly mammoths that died instantaneously, and the massive fields of them, that something had to happen, and ones with, like, their legs broken, just bent over from the impact...

00:41:16.000 Like, it's pretty clear something went down.

00:41:19.000 And all of these pieces point together, and including looking at this, which is just, this is blowing my mind, this idea of the world on fire.

00:41:29.000 Well, there were some places that apparently got spared.

00:41:32.000 Like Australia or something?

00:41:34.000 Well, Australia actually suffered a major mass extinction, but earlier.

00:41:39.000 Probably from some previous event, maybe 30,000 years ago.

00:41:45.000 Just trying to figure out where to go if it happens again.

00:41:47.000 East Central Africa seems to have been one of the places of refuge.

00:41:51.000 Because if we look at the distribution of mega mammals in the world today, where do we find the greatest concentration?

00:41:57.000 In Africa, right?

00:41:59.000 Well, Africa has retained 90% of its mega mammals from the Pleistocene.

00:42:05.000 Whereas North America lost 75%.

00:42:08.000 If you go back to North America during the ice age there was as many mega mammals if not more species than there is in Africa today.

00:42:15.000 But what we see is that extinction relates directly to habitat loss and basically Not much survived in either North or South America.

00:42:27.000 North and South America were both severely affected by these events and lost 75% of their mega mammals.

00:42:35.000 Eurasia lost between, depending on where you go, between 30 and 50%.

00:42:40.000 Africa only lost about 10% of them.

00:42:43.000 And that's why you see so many big animals still in Africa today.

00:42:46.000 Ah.

00:42:47.000 And a lot of them, I think, probably dispersed from the area around the Great Rift Zone.

00:42:52.000 It seems like in a lot of the areas actually where we're finding early hominids is in that same area that seems like for whatever reason it was spared somewhat of the extreme severity that the rest of the planet suffered.

00:43:05.000 It's an interesting situation because...

00:43:08.000 When we look at the arguments of history and archaeology, very little of the story is told in North America as it's taught in schools and universities today.

00:43:19.000 They look at places like Sumer in Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt.

00:43:24.000 Further down in South America, some of the great cultures of the Andes.

00:43:29.000 But it's like North America is missing from the map.

00:43:32.000 They talk about hunter-gatherers coming in here across the Bering Strait.

00:43:36.000 And there's still a dogged faction of archaeology that wants to maintain that that just happened about 13,000 years ago.

00:43:43.000 And that there was no human beings in the Americas before that, although the mass of contradictory evidence is overwhelming that dogma as well.

00:43:51.000 It's obvious that the Americas were populated long before that, and those populations did not only come in across the Bering Strait.

00:43:57.000 They came in other ways as well.

00:44:00.000 And then there just seems to be nothing for a very long time.

00:44:04.000 And North America is kind of left out of the story of civilization.

00:44:07.000 Well, now I think we know why.

00:44:09.000 Because North America was at the heart of this disaster.

00:44:12.000 It was at the absolute epicenter.

00:44:14.000 And the slate was completely wiped clean here.

00:44:18.000 And that's what archaeologists are looking at.

00:44:20.000 They're seeing a wiped clean slate and they think they're seeing the beginning of something.

00:44:24.000 Actually, they're not.

00:44:25.000 They're seeing the movement on of something after a horrendous disaster.

00:44:30.000 It's so hard to wrap my mind around this idea that for literally a thousand years, the Earth was just riddled with asteroid impacts and fire and nuclear winter because of the dust and mass extinction.

00:44:48.000 It's so hard.

00:44:50.000 The numbers that you're throwing around, the ideas behind it, it's very difficult.

00:44:56.000 Can I put something in there that brings it home in a way?

00:45:01.000 See, this event 12,800 years ago, we know now it was caused by fragments of a very large comet.

00:45:09.000 And the work suggests that that comet may have been more than 100 kilometers in diameter originally.

00:45:15.000 When it entered the inner solar system.

00:45:17.000 That's like 62 miles, right?

00:45:19.000 A big old comet.

00:45:21.000 These comets, they come in from deep space.

00:45:24.000 How big was the one that killed the dinosaurs?

00:45:25.000 Like five miles?

00:45:26.000 Well, that's thought to be ten kilometers wide.

00:45:29.000 Six miles.

00:45:30.000 Six miles wide.

00:45:33.000 Ten times that big?

00:45:34.000 Yeah.

00:45:35.000 These things come in from deep space.

00:45:37.000 There are reservoirs of comets.

00:45:39.000 There's a place that they call the Oort Cloud, which is just so far away that it's almost impossible to imagine it.

00:45:45.000 But it contains trillions of comets.

00:45:47.000 And often they're in stable orbits.

00:45:49.000 They're not coming into the inner solar system.

00:45:52.000 But as the solar system orbits around the center of the galaxy, our galaxy is the Milky Way, and we are in orbit around the center of the galaxy.

00:46:01.000 Our Sun, our solar system, everything is in orbit around the center of the galaxy.

00:46:04.000 And that orbit is not only in the plane of the galaxy.

00:46:08.000 Imagine a dolphin diving up and down, coming out of the surface of the sea, Descending below, rising up again.

00:46:16.000 That's what the solar system is doing, and those passages through the galactic plane disturb the Oort cloud, and they send comets winging in to the inner solar system.

00:46:26.000 Thank God for Jupiter.

00:46:28.000 Jupiter, with its huge gravity, is the great protector of the Earth.

00:46:32.000 We should all wake up every day and say, thank you, Jupiter.

00:46:36.000 Thank you, Jupiter.

00:46:37.000 This doesn't happen too often, but every now and then a comet gets past Jupiter's guard.

00:46:42.000 And comes in and enters the inner solar system and the calculations show this happened about 20,000 years ago and that comet went into an orbit that crosses the orbit of the Earth twice a year.

00:46:53.000 We are still crossing the orbit of that comet twice a year and there is still a very disturbing amount of debris.

00:47:02.000 Within it, it's called the Taurid Meteor Stream.

00:47:05.000 We've actually just finished our latest passage through the Taurid Meteor Stream.

00:47:09.000 The Earth passes through the Taurid Meteor Stream twice a year.

00:47:12.000 It takes 12 days to pass through it because the Taurid Meteor Stream, more numbers, is 30 million kilometers wide, and we orbit at the rate of 2.5 million kilometers a day.

00:47:22.000 So 12 days to pass through it.

00:47:25.000 And in the last 11,000 or so years, we've been lucky.

00:47:30.000 We've been passing through this 30 million mile wide stream.

00:47:33.000 We've been passing through bits where there are just filaments of small debris.

00:47:36.000 But the evidence is that it is actually full of large rocky debris, including one object that may be as much as 30 kilometers in diameter sitting in that torrid meteor stream.

00:47:47.000 So it's like I compare it to like strapping on a blindfold and crossing a six lane highway and just hoping that you don't get hit by a truck.

00:47:55.000 You know, that's what it comes down to.

00:47:57.000 And we've been lucky so far.

00:47:59.000 Actually, the most recent definite impact from the Taurid meteor stream was in 1908. And that was in Russia, in Siberia.

00:48:08.000 It's called the Tunguska event.

00:48:09.000 As I said, there's two passages through the stream, one in June, end of June, early July, and one in November.

00:48:15.000 And this was at the end of June, an object, not very big, about 100 meters in diameter, came out of the torrid meteor stream, entered the atmosphere of the Earth, and actually blew up in the sky.

00:48:25.000 It was an air burst about 5 kilometers above the ground.

00:48:28.000 It flattened 80 million trees across 2,000 square kilometers.

00:48:33.000 I'm sorry, I keep using kilometers.

00:48:35.000 That's fine.

00:48:35.000 2,000 square kilometers of the Earth's surface.

00:48:37.000 That's an area about the size of the city of London.

00:48:40.000 If that impact had happened over an inhabited area, hundreds of thousands of people would be killed.

00:48:45.000 And we would all be paying much more attention to the Taurid meteor stream today than we are presently doing.

00:48:51.000 We should be paying attention to it.

00:48:53.000 So we just got super lucky that it hit in a very lightly populated area.

00:48:57.000 Correct.

00:48:58.000 And it didn't even hit.

00:48:59.000 It blew up in the sky above it.

00:49:00.000 Pull up, see if you can find some image of Tunguska, because it's pretty staggering.

00:49:05.000 It's staggering.

00:49:06.000 And it literally looks like...

00:49:09.000 There was like a matchstick forest that someone pushed over, like a series of dominoes or something.

00:49:17.000 Jamie pulled that one up.

00:49:18.000 Jamie's a wizard.

00:49:20.000 Kid's on the ball.

00:49:21.000 We'll get him over there.

00:49:22.000 So here's the thing.

00:49:25.000 We are still interacting with the debris of this comet that changed the world 12,800 years ago.

00:49:33.000 It's not something remote and distant.

00:49:35.000 It's part of our daily lives.

00:49:38.000 And it is something we should be paying attention to.

00:49:41.000 And a number of astronomers are very concerned about the Taurid meteor stream.

00:49:45.000 Now, I don't want to be the one who goes around the world, you know, wearing the sandwich board, saying that doom is nigh.

00:49:51.000 Literally, the sky is falling.

00:49:52.000 Yeah.

00:49:52.000 I don't want to be that.

00:49:54.000 I don't want to manifest that.

00:49:55.000 I don't want to bring that down.

00:49:56.000 I actually want to say that there's something positive to say about this.

00:49:59.000 We are almost certainly the first civilization that's ever existed on this planet that has the capacity to intervene in our cosmic environment, should we choose to do so.

00:50:10.000 We can make sure that we are not the next lost civilization.

00:50:15.000 We can make sure that life and light continue on this planet and that our story continues.

00:50:20.000 But we need to pay attention to our cosmic environment.

00:50:23.000 And a number of scientists are now saying the same thing, that it's irresponsible of us To pretend that impacts like this may, they just happen every hundred million years, we don't need to worry about them.

00:50:35.000 We are intimately connected with a force that can change life on earth and we have the power to do something about it.

00:50:42.000 So I would suggest Instead of wasting, you know, trillions of dollars globally creating weapons of mass destruction to destroy one another and to manifest the hatred and fear and suspicion that are just whizzing around the world right now, we should be looking at a grand human project,

00:50:59.000 a cooperative effort.

00:51:15.000 About the same as the cost to run one McDonald's restaurant for a year.

00:51:23.000 Is what we're spending on studying the cosmic environment in terms of threats.

00:51:28.000 That's a hilarious comparison.

00:51:31.000 What a resourceful little freaky animal people are.

00:51:34.000 If you really stop and think about it.

00:51:36.000 Almost wiped off the face of the planet.

00:51:39.000 You know, 10,000, 12,000 years ago.

00:51:41.000 And then we reach a point where here we are in 2015 and through all these inventions, we're starting to rediscover what our history truly is.

00:51:50.000 And rediscover the history of the Earth and its interplay with all these cosmic forces.

00:51:57.000 You know, modern humans have now, what, 190,000?

00:52:00.000 Yeah, the earliest definite anatomically modern human skeletal remains date back about 196,000 years.

00:52:08.000 There's some other plausible ones at about 210,000 years.

00:52:12.000 Nothing before that.

00:52:13.000 It doesn't mean that we were not anatomically modern before that.

00:52:17.000 It may just mean that archaeologists haven't found the data yet.

00:52:20.000 But we can be sure...

00:52:22.000 That people like you and me have been around for about 200,000 years with the anatomically modern form and the anatomically modern brain.

00:52:30.000 So there's a mystery right there.

00:52:32.000 Why did we wait 190,000 years to establish the first civilizations?

00:52:38.000 It raises the possibility that we could have done so much earlier and that the slate has been wiped clean.

00:52:44.000 Think about it this way, Joe.

00:52:46.000 My grandfather was born in 1895. The main mode of transportation, aside from railroads at that time, was horseback, right?

00:52:54.000 His grandfather, you know, would have been born pre-Civil War.

00:52:57.000 So in five generations we've gone from The very first railroads, the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, to where we are now, in five generations.

00:53:07.000 Now if you go back 200,000 years, say 196,000, and we divide that by 25. I love when Randall breaks out the couch later.

00:53:17.000 We're looking at almost 8,000 generations of humans.

00:53:21.000 Wow.

00:53:22.000 Now think about that.

00:53:23.000 Within five generations, we've gone from 90% dominant agriculturally-based subsistence farming, right, feudal system, to where we are now.

00:53:34.000 But now we've got 8,000 generations of humans on this planet.

00:53:40.000 Who knows what we may have accomplished in the past?

00:53:43.000 But once you put this perspective, and you've got to understand that the catastrophe we're talking about 12,000 years ago, while all the evidence suggests it was the most severe, probably at least within 5 million years, because the last time we can find a species loss equivalent to the terminal Pleistocene species loss was 5 million years ago,

00:54:06.000 the Hempillion event, it's called.

00:54:08.000 Which then I would then consider that again as a measuring stick for habitat loss, which would in turn be a measure of the severity of whatever happened.

00:54:18.000 But the point is that in the time that we humans have been around, There have been multiple catastrophes of a global scale, not as severe as the one we're talking about here, but certainly the framework of this planet has been shaken numerous times.

00:54:34.000 And in 200,000 years, we've had probably four great glacial cycles that have come and gone.

00:54:41.000 Now just a glacial cycle alone, I mean think about that, what the ice will do to the landscape, and dropping sea levels 400 feet.

00:54:50.000 And now during an ice age, you've got to bear in mind that probably the most habitable place to be on the planet is going to be on coastlines, along the mouths of rivers and so forth.

00:55:00.000 What happens when all that ice melts and sea level comes up 300 or 400 feet?

00:55:04.000 And it's going to pretty much erase most of the evidence of human habitation.

00:55:10.000 Although, and I think I talked about this last time, and you would probably concur with this, the importance of marine archaeology.

00:55:18.000 It's extremely important.

00:55:19.000 Yes.

00:55:20.000 But again, unfortunately, marine archaeology has its eye off the ball.

00:55:24.000 Most of the resources in marine archaeology go into shipwrecks, looking for shipwrecks.

00:55:29.000 Right.

00:55:29.000 And I get that.

00:55:31.000 It's really interesting to look at shipwrecks.

00:55:33.000 But there is a prejudice in archaeology which says there could have been no interesting civilization before 12,000 years ago.

00:55:39.000 So since those lands that were submerged by rising sea levels have been underwater for 10,000 or 12,000 years, we're not really interested in human habitations there.

00:55:48.000 And this is the problem.

00:55:50.000 A very focused effort needs to be made to look at these lost lands.

00:55:54.000 I can put that in miles, 10 million square miles of the Earth's surface, roughly Europe and China added together.

00:56:02.000 Jesus Christ.

00:56:05.000 Jesus Christ.

00:56:26.000 A mile high of ice.

00:56:28.000 Even more than that in some cases.

00:56:30.000 Over central Canada, it might have been as much as two miles.

00:56:33.000 Two miles of ice.

00:56:35.000 Just pushing across the ground like an eraser.

00:56:38.000 Exactly.

00:56:39.000 And crushing the surface of the ground down.

00:56:42.000 I think in our discussions of Atlantis, we covered that a little bit.

00:56:45.000 Crushing the surface of the land down by perhaps a couple of thousand feet.

00:56:50.000 Isostatic depression.

00:56:51.000 Remember the geology lesson I gave you last time?

00:56:54.000 Yes.

00:56:54.000 About...

00:56:55.000 Isostatic depression and we discussed how at this very moment your ass is demonstrating an important geological phenomena of isostatic depression sitting on that cushion that you're sitting on.

00:57:07.000 And if you were to stand up, what happens when you stand up?

00:57:10.000 The cushion comes back up, doesn't it?

00:57:12.000 It's exactly what happens and you can almost picture the planet breathing in effect.

00:57:16.000 The ice is released from the continental surface, the continental surface begins to rebound, the weight is transferred back into the ocean basins, and there has to be what's called rheology, which is the study of the distribution of the inner mass of the earth, requires That there be compensation.

00:57:34.000 So if in one area of the surface the land is rising, somewhere else it has to be subsiding.

00:57:41.000 And the obvious place would be that as you transfer the weight from the continent back into the ocean basins, that the ocean basins are going to subside.

00:57:50.000 And this brings us, you know, to the whole question of the scientific veracity of a sunken land mass.

00:57:58.000 I think you have an interesting point on the egg ores in this sense because there you have this massive – it's like a seesaw.

00:58:04.000 There you have this massive weight pressing down on the North American continent and suddenly it's lifted.

00:58:10.000 That massive weight pushed down North America but it lifted up other areas, the other end of the seesaw.

00:58:16.000 Then the weight comes off.

00:58:18.000 This end goes up and the other end goes down.

00:58:20.000 And suddenly you get the possibility of the submergence of a landmass.

00:58:24.000 It just falls under the sea.

00:58:26.000 Wow.

00:58:26.000 And there is actually considerable empirical evidence suggesting that there was massive post-glacial subsidence along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

00:58:35.000 Which is where the Azores are.

00:58:37.000 Yeah.

00:58:37.000 And which is pretty much where Plato...

00:58:39.000 Said Atlantis was.

00:58:41.000 Yeah.

00:58:41.000 Wasn't there some discovery of some concentric circles that were submerged somewhere near Spain that they considered to be a possibility of Atlantis?

00:58:49.000 Yeah, that's off Cadiz.

00:58:51.000 Is that near Spain?

00:58:52.000 Yeah.

00:58:53.000 I think it's much more recent.

00:58:55.000 Much more recent than the information we're looking at.

00:58:58.000 So it's just another...

00:59:00.000 Yeah.

00:59:00.000 Port that was submerged.

00:59:02.000 That was submerged.

00:59:02.000 There could be a lot of reasons why this happens.

00:59:05.000 Actually, it's happening in the UK, where I'm from, because the ice sheets in the UK were on the north of the UK over Scotland, and they were pressing Scotland down, and they caused the southern part of England to rise up.

00:59:17.000 Then when you take those ice sheets off, the southern part starts to go down.

00:59:21.000 So that's places like the Isle of Wight in the English Channel.

00:59:23.000 They're sinking beneath the sea because of this.

00:59:25.000 Still, the effect of that rebound is happening today.

00:59:27.000 That's called the Glacial Forebulge, where outside the glaciers the land is pushed up.

00:59:34.000 You know, this speaks to how people have a hard time accepting some of this new information.

00:59:40.000 I have a friend who's a scientist, and the last time you were on, she said to me, did you have a climate denier on your show?

00:59:48.000 A climate change denier?

00:59:50.000 And I said, he's definitely not denying it.

00:59:52.000 No.

00:59:53.000 But some people, that's all they hear.

00:59:56.000 When you bring forth a non-mainstream point of view or a controversial perspective, instead of considering the possibility, it almost immediately gets dismissed to see.

01:00:09.000 Well, this climate change thing is another ideological struggle.

01:00:12.000 Yeah, sure, climate change is taking place, but what are the causes for this?

01:00:15.000 Are we so sure that it's all caused by human beings?

01:00:18.000 I would say there's very good reason for humanity to clean up our act in lots of ways, regardless of the issue of climate change.

01:00:25.000 We're abusing Mother Earth.

01:00:28.000 We're living upon this planet like parasites and destroying it.

01:00:32.000 We thoughtlessly create gigantic pools of pollution.

01:00:36.000 We're crazy enough, insane enough to actually invent nuclear weapons and, you know...

01:00:42.000 Detonate the bloody things.

01:00:45.000 There are lots about our behavior that we need to fix because it's right to fix it.

01:00:50.000 Philosophically right.

01:00:51.000 We should not behave that way.

01:00:52.000 We should not behave that way to one another.

01:00:54.000 We should not behave that way to planet Earth.

01:00:56.000 But to say that we need to fix our behavior because of global warming, that's an ideological argument.

01:01:01.000 And that argument remains to be properly tested.

01:01:05.000 Yes, global warming is occurring, but are we the cause of it or is something else, some grander scale cosmic effect involved in this?

01:01:11.000 We talked about that considerably, and I noticed in a lot of the comments from our last discussion, most of the critical comments were people, you know, not liking the idea that I had questioned the dogma of global warming.

01:01:26.000 But there are some facts that you can't escape.

01:01:29.000 The global warming began 200 years ago, and we see that the glaciers from the Little Ice Age began to shrink back in the early 19th century.

01:01:37.000 Before there was, you know, a century before there was any significant human contribution of CO2 to the atmosphere.

01:01:44.000 So something was driving that warming that began.

01:01:47.000 And it's important to realize that the Little Ice Age was probably the coldest period since the end of the Great Ice Age.

01:01:56.000 In fact, the data overwhelmingly supports that and that the glaciers grew to their largest extent around the planet in 10,000 years.

01:02:04.000 So when we're talking about glacier recession, it's important to understand what the baseline is.

01:02:09.000 Our baseline in this case is the biggest the glaciers have been in 10,000 years.

01:02:13.000 And what's interesting, and this is going on right now, as the glaciers have been receding, Geologists and biologists and glaciologists and so forth have been studying the landscapes that are being revealed as the ice shrinks back.

01:02:28.000 And you know what they're finding is the remains of forests that had been overrun by the Little Ice Age glaciers and peat bogs and things that would suggest that prior to the onset of the Little Ice Age, those valleys that were filled with ice from roughly 1400 to 1800 We're actually forested because the ice came down and overran these forests and now it's receding back and revealing that there were forests there.

01:02:58.000 So that tells you that, you know, at some point, probably going back to the medieval warm period, those areas that were, that have been glaciated during the early part of the 20th century were actually free of ice.

01:03:10.000 And so, you know, the climate has been extremely dynamic.

01:03:14.000 That's the thing we have to emphasize, all by itself, without any help from humans.

01:03:18.000 And this is what I've been saying, is that we have to look at that and realize that, yeah, humans are a factor.

01:03:25.000 You know, somebody I did post and said all the other factors I had mentioned as, you know, ocean currents and wind currents and geomagnetic field and cosmic rays and volcanism and all that had all been investigated and dismissed and the only thing left was the human contribution.

01:03:41.000 But, you know, to me that's really, we're putting all our eggs in that basket and that could turn out to be very dangerous because we're so focused now on our own contribution that we might be overlooking the fact that there have been natural factors driving climate change over and over and over again.

01:03:58.000 I mean, because I still have not heard any consensus.

01:04:02.000 On what has caused the planet to first go into an ice age and come back out of an ice age.

01:04:08.000 And I think that what Graham and I are talking about actually presents a possible solution to what could have brought this planet out of the ice age, something on a grand cosmic scale.

01:04:19.000 And the other point I think I'd like to make is that we have to, really to understand our planet as a system, we have to realize that it's part of a cosmic ecosystem.

01:04:29.000 And the cosmos has been a much bigger player in what's been going on down here than has been previously understood or appreciated.

01:04:37.000 And I think our ancestors probably did understand that.

01:04:41.000 I think they did understand it.

01:04:42.000 The focus on the skies, if you go back into ancient times, is so strong.

01:04:47.000 This notion of as above, so below, that we are connected to the cosmos.

01:04:51.000 This is something that we're tending to forget in the modern world.

01:04:54.000 Again, because we're so puffed up with pride.

01:04:56.000 Anyway, we can't see the sky if we live in cities.

01:04:58.000 That's, I think, a big issue.

01:04:59.000 Yeah, light pollution.

01:05:00.000 It's just like a haze up there.

01:05:01.000 We don't see anything.

01:05:03.000 So we're...

01:05:04.000 We actually cut off from the cosmos psychologically.

01:05:08.000 And that's a mistake because we are part of this giant cosmic environment and it affects us.

01:05:12.000 And one of the ways it affects us is the way that comets come into the inner solar system from time to time from deep space.

01:05:18.000 I was camping in Montana recently.

01:05:20.000 And, you know, when you're out at night and you look at that night sky and there's no light pollution.

01:05:26.000 It's just a totally different perspective.

01:05:29.000 Isn't it?

01:05:29.000 And it gives you a different sense of where you are in the universe because we're so...

01:05:34.000 And it's not necessarily our fault.

01:05:37.000 It's almost like we've put up a curtain over the heavens and we can't see through the curtain because we've decided that we like light and we like traffic lights and building lights and all this jazz.

01:05:48.000 And we don't realize until we're out in the woods or in the wild Until you're in the wilderness and there's no light pollution, you really don't realize what we're missing and what we're sacrificing in order to have these lights.

01:05:59.000 The view of the heavens, it's psychedelic in a way.

01:06:04.000 Because it makes you feel like, oh my god, we're really flying through space.

01:06:08.000 And nice that Mother Nature has provided us with those plants that really help us to appreciate it from time to time.

01:06:14.000 I try to go every year to the Keck Observatory on the Big Island.

01:06:17.000 I try to schedule my holidays as much as possible around the time where there's no moon.

01:06:23.000 Because it is unbelievable.

01:06:26.000 Because the Keck Observatory is more than 9,000 feet above sea level.

01:06:30.000 There's the visitor center, and then there's the observatories above.

01:06:33.000 But you really don't even know how to go past the visitor center.

01:06:36.000 But...

01:06:37.000 The way they have it set up, they have these special street lights all throughout the Big Island with diffused lighting so it doesn't interfere.

01:06:46.000 It doesn't give you light pollution.

01:06:47.000 And when you're up there, you go through the clouds and the view is insane.

01:06:53.000 I've never been.

01:06:54.000 I'd love to go.

01:06:55.000 It doesn't even look real.

01:06:56.000 It doesn't even look real.

01:06:57.000 You see all the stars.

01:06:58.000 You're like, this can't be real.

01:06:59.000 How could this be up there every day and we don't see it?

01:07:03.000 But...

01:07:04.000 What we've done is create all this incredible stuff, these streets and buildings and laptops and cell phones, and in doing so, we've robbed ourselves of a perspective.

01:07:16.000 Yeah, and it's weird, because we have this technology that enables us to go around the whole world and even go out into outer space, but actually, in a way, it's narrowed our focus.

01:07:26.000 We focus in on the technology and its products, and we forget about the majestic Cosmic and Earth environment in which we live, how sacred it is, how beautiful it is, how meaningful it is to all of us.

01:07:39.000 And that was the image that our ancestors always had.

01:07:42.000 And that's probably why they concentrated on it so much.

01:07:45.000 And the things that happened up there were evident to them.

01:07:48.000 I mean, because these days, how many people see meteors?

01:07:52.000 Living in an urban environment, you never see that hardly, unless it's really spectacular.

01:07:58.000 But you go out, like you said, in Montana, one of my favorite places to go out in the high desert country.

01:08:03.000 And there you really, with the stars, almost you can reach out and touch them, you know.

01:08:08.000 I think that one of the most important things that we could do for future generations as part of our educational curriculum for young people is get them out of the cities, into nature, into the Tremendous, you know, where they can actually see the sky.

01:08:24.000 Because, I mean, living in Atlanta, I'll talk to people, even grown-up people, that have no clue.

01:08:30.000 Have no clue.

01:08:31.000 You know, they couldn't find the North Star.

01:08:34.000 They couldn't find the plane of the ecliptic if their life depended on it.

01:08:38.000 You know, we've become cut off from that level.

01:08:41.000 And I think that that's...

01:08:43.000 It's important for us to keep that because our consciousness is linked to this greater domain and we have segregated ourselves from that.

01:08:52.000 And I think that there's something, you know, amazingly it's a grounding experience when you get out and you begin to see the sky and you can actually, you know, begin to figure out and identify the constellations.

01:09:08.000 You know, to know where the planets are, to look in the sky.

01:09:13.000 It's really good mental exercise.

01:09:14.000 It is.

01:09:14.000 It's something worth anybody doing.

01:09:16.000 Get to grips with all that up there, as the ancients did.

01:09:19.000 It gets your mind working, and it may even have been used deliberately for that purpose in ancient times, a kind of initiation system.

01:09:25.000 If you can get this, then you move on to the next level, you know.

01:09:29.000 That's the kind of ideal.

01:09:31.000 It was a critical part of education where it's very rarely even discussed today.

01:09:36.000 And look again at the ideology.

01:09:39.000 So, for example, if you talk about astrology to any, most any mainstream scientists, they're going to laugh in your face.

01:09:46.000 They're going to say pseudoscience because they're so locked into this earth-centered perspective, which It convinces them that the cosmos does have no effect on us.

01:09:57.000 So how can changing patterns of the stars, which zodiacal constellation is sitting behind the sun at a particular time, how can that affect us?

01:10:04.000 How can when we were born affect us?

01:10:06.000 I don't think we should throw that baby out with the bathwater too fast.

01:10:10.000 I think we're looking at an ancient science with astrology, and I think it's been heavily diluted and prostituted in the modern world.

01:10:21.000 I think we're good to go.

01:10:49.000 Archaeologists throw around words like pseudo-archaeologist or pseudo-scientist.

01:10:54.000 That's meant to be an instant dismissal, just like climate denier.

01:10:58.000 You call somebody a climate denier today, that's like saying, don't listen to anything that guy has to say.

01:11:03.000 Never listen to it again.

01:11:04.000 These are ideological tools which are being used to straightjacket the human mind and to stop us thinking outside the box.

01:11:11.000 And if there's ever a time where we needed to think outside the box, I would say that time is right now.

01:11:15.000 Isn't it ironic that in this time, more information available to the average person than ever before, that this also has coincided with our lack of appreciation for what's above us?

01:11:27.000 It's very strange.

01:11:28.000 It's a very curious phenomenon.

01:11:30.000 And here's an interesting perspective.

01:11:32.000 You know, as we're talking about how dynamic the planet is and how it's changed and how dramatically different, which it is, I mean, if we go back to the end of the Ice Age, you know, you go east of here out of the Mojave Desert, that was lush grasslands and forests.

01:11:46.000 You go out here to the Santa Rosa Islands, you know, out here, they were all forested with oak trees and beech trees and Mammothus exilus, which was the pygmy mammoth, you know.

01:11:58.000 I mean, everything down here changes dramatically.

01:12:00.000 But when we go out and we look at the sky, we're basically seeing the same sky that our ancestors of 20,000 years ago were looking at.

01:12:09.000 And that's something to keep in mind, because there's something, there's a backdrop to all of this drama and change here below that's pretty much, for the most part, remained consistent.

01:12:19.000 But within that backdrop of consistency, every once in a while, something shifts.

01:12:24.000 And when it shifts out there, I think our ancestors knew that there was a direct consequence here below.

01:12:30.000 And that's one of the reasons they were so obsessed with being able to track motion.

01:12:36.000 You know, all of these ancient observatories from Stonehenge on down the line to, you know, the mound structures here in North America.

01:12:44.000 And let's not forget Gobekli Tepe, a profoundly astronomical site.

01:12:47.000 Gobekli Tepe, yes.

01:12:48.000 These were astronomical observatories using the horizon essentially as a telescope by which very intimate and intricate movements within that backdrop of fixed stars could actually be observed, possibly for predictive capabilities.

01:13:05.000 And how are the calculations, man?

01:13:07.000 Like, when an archaeologist finds a site like Gobekli Tepe, how do they correlate the construction of the site with the constellations?

01:13:16.000 Well, first off, most archaeologists don't do that at all.

01:13:19.000 Because they just don't do astronomy.

01:13:20.000 They don't get it.

01:13:21.000 Their eyes are on the ground at their feet.

01:13:23.000 Right, two different disciplines.

01:13:24.000 Because astronomy is not relevant to them, they project that onto the past and imagine that it was not relevant to the past.

01:13:30.000 And that's one of the big mistakes, I think, that archaeology makes.

01:13:32.000 There are people called archaeoastronomers.

01:13:34.000 Who are looking at the astronomy of ancient cultures and some of them have done very good work.

01:13:40.000 But really there are certain key indicators.

01:13:43.000 The alignment of the site.

01:13:45.000 What's it pointing out?

01:13:46.000 And does that alignment change down the ages?

01:13:49.000 You can sometimes establish that a particular axis of a particular temple in Egypt, for example, was shifted.

01:13:55.000 Over a period of 2,000 or 3,000 years, several times.

01:13:59.000 And why?

01:13:59.000 Because they were tracking the changing rising point of the star Sirius, which they connected in their system of ideas to the goddess Isis.

01:14:08.000 They were tracking that...

01:14:10.000 Rising point, which changes because of changes in the sky.

01:14:14.000 I mean, long story short, the Earth wobbles on its axis.

01:14:17.000 And that, since the Earth is our viewing platform from which we observe the stars, changes of orientation of the Earth in space do change the rising times of particular stars at particular times of year.

01:14:28.000 And this was clearly tracked by the ancients.

01:14:32.000 So you can say that.

01:14:32.000 If you find anywhere a monument that is perfectly aligned to true north, south, east, and west, you can be absolutely sure that astronomers were involved.

01:14:40.000 If it's tracking the rising sun on the spring equinox or on the winter or summer solstice, astronomers were there.

01:14:46.000 They were right there when they made that monument.

01:14:49.000 Well, that's one of the scariest, or not the scariest, but most astounding things when you consider the ancients, that they had an understanding of the precession of the equinoxes.

01:14:57.000 Yes, exactly.

01:14:57.000 Which is what, it was a 26,000 year cycle?

01:15:00.000 26,000 year cycle.

01:15:01.000 25,920 years.

01:15:03.000 How did they...

01:15:05.000 Very long, very precise observations and the motive to make those observations.

01:15:11.000 That this was important to them and they sought to pass down that importance to us.

01:15:17.000 Very important work by two historians of science called Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Deschend.

01:15:24.000 Back in the 60s, they wrote a book called Hamlet's Mill, which tracks this ancient knowledge of procession.

01:15:29.000 And they trace it back, and this was very politically incorrect at that time, because Giorgio de Santillana was the professor of the history of science at MIT. They trace it back to what they call some almost unbelievable civilization of prehistoric antiquity.

01:15:45.000 That made this up.

01:15:46.000 They found the data encoded in myths and traditions all around the world.

01:15:51.000 And I do go into this in Magicians of the Gods.

01:15:53.000 They found it encoded as though the data were so important that it had to be passed down to the future.

01:15:59.000 So the numbers that relate to procession of the equinoxes, and they're all based on the number 72. And multiples of that number.

01:16:06.000 Why?

01:16:07.000 Because it takes 72 years for one degree of processional change to unfold.

01:16:12.000 And that's like holding your finger up to the horizon.

01:16:15.000 That one degree is just that one finger width of change on the horizon.

01:16:18.000 Very precise observations are needed to do it.

01:16:21.000 It's encoded in myths and traditions and it looks like somebody at some point decided this information is so important we must make sure that it stays permanently in human culture.

01:16:32.000 So what we're going to do is we're going to encode it in great stories and those stories can then be passed on by storytellers who will have an ethic that they must tell the story true.

01:16:43.000 It doesn't matter whether they understand the scientific information in the story or not.

01:16:47.000 All that matters is that they pass it on.

01:16:49.000 And so in the oldest myths and traditions of mankind, we have compelling evidence for scientific knowledge of the phenomenon that we call the procession of the equinoxes today.

01:16:58.000 Which has been referred to in Hamlet's Mill as the Great Year.

01:17:02.000 The Great Year.

01:17:03.000 The Great Year.

01:17:04.000 Which is the full cycle, 25,920 years, a great circle in the heavens.

01:17:10.000 It's very evident, if you've got thousands of years to watch the sky, it's very evident at the pole.

01:17:15.000 Our pole star presently is Polaris, and that's just simply because the extended North Pole of the Earth points most directly at that particular star in the sky.

01:17:26.000 But it hasn't always pointed at Polaris because of the wobble on the axis of the Earth, and it won't always point at Polaris in the future.

01:17:33.000 The Polestar changes, but you need to observe the skies for very long periods of time, keep detailed records to get to grips with this phenomenon.

01:17:41.000 This therefore testifies to the fact That some ancient culture was doing this in a very systematic way.

01:17:47.000 It's like a ghostly fingerprint of an advanced scientific knowledge impressed upon the oldest myths and traditions of our planet.

01:17:56.000 Has it been accepted that things like the Mayan temples were built to mirror the constellations?

01:18:03.000 Is that accepted by mainstream archaeologists?

01:18:04.000 It's been accepted, yeah.

01:18:05.000 It is accepted because we know that the Maya were an astronomical culture.

01:18:10.000 And it is accepted that they were building their They're temples in connection to the sky.

01:18:16.000 And the whole phenomenon of the Mayan calendar, which we all heard a lot about in 2012, is another factor to take into account.

01:18:25.000 The Mayan calendar, in my view, is another artifact of a lost civilization.

01:18:29.000 This was handed down from a former people, perhaps to the Olmecs and then to the Maya who succeeded them.

01:18:37.000 It's accepted, but the implications of it are not taken properly into account.

01:18:43.000 Remember 21st of December 2012, there was all that fuss and nonsense about the end of the world happening then, and it didn't.

01:18:52.000 But the Maya never said that.

01:18:54.000 They said that the end of a great cycle happened then, which would ultimately transform the world.

01:19:00.000 But what it was actually locked into, and I need to pay tribute to another researcher here, and his name is John Major Jenkins.

01:19:05.000 John Major Jenkins has done fantastic work on the Mayan calendar.

01:19:10.000 Decade before 2012, he was telling people, look, this is not talking about the end of the world on a specific day, on the 21st of December 2012. There's a calculation behind this, and what he showed in that calculation is that it is the position of the winter solstice sun against the background of the constellations.

01:19:28.000 And what has been happening for the last 5,000 years because of precession is that the winter solstice sun 21st of December, against the background of the constellations, has been gradually shifting towards alignment with the center of the galaxy.

01:19:43.000 And that alignment happened on the 21st of December 2012, but it's not an instant.

01:19:50.000 It's a window.

01:19:51.000 And that window is about 80 years wide, roughly from 1960 to 2040. That was what was focused on in the Mayan calendar, a calendar that can predict eclipses of the moon, 200,000 years into the future or 200,000 years into the past.

01:20:08.000 Incredible, stunning accuracy.

01:20:10.000 A better estimate of the length of the solar year than we use today in our modern calculations.

01:20:16.000 Really?

01:20:17.000 Yeah.

01:20:17.000 Wow!

01:20:18.000 High science encoded in that calendar.

01:20:21.000 Why don't we just adopt the Mayan calendar, right?

01:20:23.000 If it's better than what we have, I don't...

01:20:26.000 Yeah, we're now living in the fifth age of the world, according to the Mayan calendar.

01:20:29.000 For day-to-day use.

01:20:31.000 Yeah.

01:20:31.000 It may not have been that correct.

01:20:32.000 It's probably not good for your iPhone.

01:20:34.000 It wouldn't make a good app.

01:20:35.000 I bet they have a Mayan calendar app.

01:20:36.000 I bet they have a Mayan calendar app.

01:20:38.000 I'm sure they do.

01:20:39.000 You can think of one half of a degree...

01:20:42.000 Graham said one degree every 72 years, right?

01:20:45.000 One degree within the great year is like one day out of the great year, right?

01:20:51.000 So you could think of 72 years as basically being a human life.

01:20:54.000 So an average human life is roughly like a day of the great year.

01:20:59.000 That's one way, one perspective.

01:21:01.000 That's interesting.

01:21:01.000 Yeah.

01:21:02.000 Yeah.

01:21:03.000 Now, what he said about the window is because, you know, you can't define the center of the galaxy with an exact precise point.

01:21:10.000 There's a diffuse area there.

01:21:12.000 And every 72 years, the spring point is moving one degree, which is twice the diameter of a full moon.

01:21:23.000 Full moon is a half a degree, right?

01:21:25.000 And I think that possibly one of the importances of monitoring, because you can't really, you know, you can't go out and look at the sun, you know, and say, okay, here's the sun relative to this backdrop of this constellation.

01:21:38.000 However, you can look at a full lunar eclipse, and then you will know that the sun is 180 degrees around.

01:21:48.000 So by monitoring lunar eclipses, you can actually Position the Sun quite precisely and know where it is in the sky because obviously you can't go out and look at the Sun and see what stars it's related to.

01:22:04.000 But during a lunar eclipse, it's 180 degrees almost precisely on the other side of the Earth.

01:22:12.000 From the sun.

01:22:15.000 Can I just jump in for a second?

01:22:17.000 Because I have an image here.

01:22:19.000 I don't know if we can get it on.

01:22:20.000 And it's this image on this side.

01:22:23.000 It's a pillar, richly carved, showing a...

01:22:26.000 Is that Pillar 14?

01:22:27.000 Pillar 43 in enclosure D. Now, I'm not going to go into it in detail now.

01:22:33.000 I've seen that online.

01:22:34.000 Jamie will find images online.

01:22:35.000 I just want to make the point, and I go into this in this book, Magicians of the Gods, that that appears to be a diagram of the sky.

01:22:46.000 At the winter solstice in our epoch.

01:22:49.000 The round dot above the vulture's wing, the round circle, represents the sun.

01:22:55.000 And what we're looking at is an ancient constellation diagram.

01:22:59.000 The constellations that we call Sagittarius and Scorpio Stand on either side of the galactic center, of the dark rift at the heart of the Milky Way, which the Maya saw as the womb of cosmic rebirth.

01:23:13.000 And it's precisely that image that is depicted there.

01:23:16.000 I back it up chapter and verse in the book.

01:23:17.000 You'll just have to take my word for it at the moment.

01:23:18.000 Is that why we see the scorpion below?

01:23:20.000 Yeah.

01:23:21.000 There's an ancient memory that there should be a scorpion in that area of the sky, and it's impressed here on this pillar.

01:23:27.000 And what are the other constellation clues?

01:23:31.000 Well, up on the right, you'll see, first of all, see the vulture with its wings outstretched and the sun over the wing.

01:23:38.000 Then go right up there, you'll see a bird.

01:23:40.000 That small bird is actually the head of our constellation of Scorpio.

01:23:44.000 The tail of our constellation of Scorpio overlaps the scorpion underneath the pillar.

01:23:49.000 But go above the small bird and you'll see a serpent there, a snake, and beside it another bird.

01:23:56.000 That looks like a penis.

01:24:00.000 We call those constellations today Ophiuchus, the serpent holder, which is represented by the bird there.

01:24:08.000 And we call the serpent constellation serpents.

01:24:12.000 Other constellations are also involved.

01:24:15.000 This is spooky and eerie because it appears there's overwhelming evidence that the people who made Gobekli Tepe had a profound knowledge of procession.

01:24:25.000 And it appears that they deliberately sent forward into time In this time capsule, a picture of the sky in our age.

01:24:33.000 And that is a staggering possibility that I investigate here.

01:24:39.000 I don't understand how it's in our age.

01:24:40.000 Well, it's only at the winter solstice in our age that the Sun sits over the center of the galaxy.

01:24:49.000 The winter solstice in the area that the ancient Maya It's called the cosmic womb.

01:24:55.000 There's a dark rift in the Milky Way at that point.

01:24:59.000 And they saw that as the cosmic womb.

01:25:01.000 So it symbolizes a moment of rebirth.

01:25:03.000 And the evidence is that they've been tracking the movement of the sun on the winter solstice, which is also the end of the year and the rebirth of the new year.

01:25:11.000 They've been tracking it to the point where they could project forward and they could envisage the sky in our epoch today.

01:25:18.000 The Maya could do that.

01:25:19.000 And what I'm suggesting is that's done at Gobekli Tepe as well.

01:25:22.000 It's very hard for me to interpret this.

01:25:24.000 I'm seeing the vulture playing basketball, trying to get away from the scorpion, and there's a penis trying to attack him.

01:25:31.000 And I'm not exactly sure.

01:25:33.000 No, the photograph alone, that's just the heart of the mystery.

01:25:37.000 You have to get into the logic of it and compare it with the existing constellations, and I've tried to do that in the past.

01:25:42.000 Well, it's also fascinating that all of these images were carved in 3D relief.

01:25:47.000 So instead of being...

01:25:48.000 What that means is instead of being drawn into...

01:25:51.000 People think about wet cement.

01:25:53.000 You can draw your name in wet cement.

01:25:55.000 Instead of that, what they've done is they've removed everything around...

01:26:01.000 This is what's called high relief.

01:26:06.000 Interestingly, you can see at the top of the pillar, there are three things that look like handbags.

01:26:10.000 That symbol crops up all over the world.

01:26:13.000 It crops up in Mexico, it crops up in Mesopotamia, it crops up in India, everywhere.

01:26:18.000 And again, I think we're looking at symbolism that goes back to a very remote period, which we know is at least as old as 11,000.

01:26:25.000 Maybe what they're trying to say is that shopping will be the end of us all.

01:26:29.000 I think those bags held their stash.

01:26:32.000 Really?

01:26:33.000 And I'm half serious because this is another issue that is ignored by the mainstream is the use of psychedelics in ancient civilizations was fundamental to the quality of those civilizations.

01:26:45.000 And this is another area we're in ideological denial about because the powers that be in our society don't like psychedelics.

01:26:52.000 They don't want ancient cultures to have liked them either.

01:26:54.000 And they just ignore the evidence for that.

01:26:57.000 I think it's one of the main points of view that when you don't consider them, it makes me really reluctant to listen to a lot of the other things you have to say because...

01:27:10.000 It's undeniable the impact those things have on human consciousness.

01:27:13.000 Undeniable.

01:27:14.000 And it's also undeniable that many, many, many civilizations use them as a part of their spiritual rituals.

01:27:21.000 And the fact that this is not thought of as an important aspect of our history, all it means to me is the people that are talking about it haven't experienced them.

01:27:30.000 Exactly.

01:27:31.000 That's the problem.

01:27:32.000 The archaeologists who are entrusted with interpreting our past to us, unfortunately, most of them have never taken a psychedelic in their life.

01:27:41.000 You just want to grab them and go, look, I just need 15 minutes of your time.

01:27:45.000 One DM teacher, 15 minutes, and the whole thing will be so much clearer.

01:27:50.000 So much clearer.

01:27:51.000 Exactly.

01:27:52.000 I think it's an important experience for archaeologists to have because it was a universal experience in the ancient world.

01:27:59.000 We demonize psychedelics today and we pretend that they are just totally negative things.

01:28:05.000 But in the ancient world they were revered and enshrined.

01:28:08.000 They were at the heart of the ancient mysteries.

01:28:10.000 The Eleusinian mysteries in ancient Greece used a potion related to LSD which brought about a revelation.

01:28:39.000 Ideological blinders keep us from looking at possibilities.

01:28:44.000 I don't know whether or not that's stash or whether it's just chicks' handbags.

01:28:48.000 It's saying shopping.

01:28:49.000 It's malls.

01:28:50.000 Malls will ruin us all.

01:28:51.000 That's what I'm getting at.

01:28:52.000 But the weird thing is that this symbolism is all over the world.

01:28:56.000 What if Gobekli Tepe was a mall?

01:28:59.000 Now you may have something there.

01:29:01.000 The symbolism of these purses?

01:29:03.000 Yeah.

01:29:04.000 It's found all over the world.

01:29:05.000 For example, we'd have to find an image, but there's the earliest image of the figure known as Quetzalcoatl in Mexico.

01:29:41.000 Really?

01:29:43.000 Yeah.

01:29:44.000 The Sumerian fish man.

01:29:46.000 The Oanis, the Oanadapa, the originator of civilization in Sumer, ancient Sumer, according to their mythology.

01:29:54.000 He's always depicted holding one of these bags as well.

01:29:57.000 So I find myself wondering, are we looking at the symbolism of some ancient brotherhood, you know, who passed...

01:30:05.000 around the world seeding civilizations and that this was the equivalent of their, I don't know, their Masonic handshake or something.

01:30:12.000 This was their badge of recognition, this bag that they carried.

01:30:14.000 Well, it's just speculation, right?

01:30:16.000 It's pure speculation.

01:30:18.000 It's pure speculation.

01:30:19.000 So, because of the fact that they've accepted that the Mayan temples are aligned with the constellations, have they decided to look at other archaeological discoveries in the same light, or is this something that's being resisted?

01:30:36.000 Well, as I say, there is a specialized subdivision of archaeology, which is called archaeoastronomers.

01:30:41.000 An accepted subdivision.

01:30:42.000 Except in subdivision, these are archaeologists who've been trained in astronomy, but they've also been trained in the fundamental dogmas of the discipline of archaeology, which is that there can be no lost civilization, that archaeology has already told pretty much the full story of humanity,

01:30:59.000 and all that awaits is to fill in the details.

01:31:02.000 This is the dogma of archaeology that is taken in.

01:31:07.000 From the moment that somebody decides to become an archaeologist, part of the training.

01:31:10.000 And actually, if you try and go against that dogma as a mainstream archaeologist, you can kiss goodbye to your career.

01:31:16.000 Any archaeologist who entertains the possibility of an advanced lost civilization around the world more than 12,000 years ago will have no future as an archaeologist.

01:31:25.000 That right there will write him off for the rest of his career.

01:31:29.000 That's so disturbing.

01:31:30.000 It's so disturbing.

01:31:31.000 If that's true, it's so mind-numbing.

01:31:35.000 Because why would you ever believe that we've got it all figured out, where every day they find some new stuff?

01:31:41.000 Did you see the discovery they found recently of a large tooth that's a cousin of human beings?

01:31:48.000 Denisovan.

01:31:48.000 Yeah, but really recently, over the last few days.

01:31:51.000 Very, very recently.

01:31:52.000 Well, this is the thing, you see.

01:31:54.000 Our story is much more complex than we've been taught.

01:31:57.000 And...

01:31:58.000 Gradually, bit by bit, the evidence is coming out of the woodwork.

01:32:01.000 But the idea that we have all the data of history is just so crazy.

01:32:05.000 It's just not true.

01:32:06.000 And arrogant.

01:32:07.000 It's absolutely foolish.

01:32:09.000 Yeah, it's a very foolish idea and it shuts us down to the possibilities.

01:32:13.000 I mean, the universe gifted us with these giant brains and this incredible imagination and intuitive faculties as well.

01:32:21.000 We're not only rational creatures, we're intuitive creatures.

01:32:24.000 And all of these faculties should be applied to understanding the mystery of who and what we are.

01:32:31.000 And I think that's one of the mistakes of modern science is this just chopped out one bit, the kind of alert problem-solving bit, the rational reason, the use of reason and logic, and it's chopped out all the rest.

01:32:42.000 The capacity of humanity to dream, to learn information in dream, to learn true knowledge in dream was revered in the ancient world and just ridiculed today.

01:32:51.000 You want to insult somebody?

01:32:52.000 Call him a dreamer, you know.

01:32:54.000 Things have changed so much.

01:32:56.000 Well, it seems like back then there was so much less information and now there's so much information.

01:33:01.000 To call someone a dreamer means that you're thinking of nonsense when you should be trying to acquire all the information that we've already discovered, that we've already accumulated.

01:33:11.000 Exactly.

01:33:11.000 That's exactly what it's about.

01:33:12.000 And again, it's ideology.

01:33:14.000 It's saying that there is nothing of value in dreams.

01:33:16.000 How do we know that?

01:33:18.000 Ancient world felt that there was useful knowledge to be got from dreams, not all dreams.

01:33:22.000 It's in Homer, actually, that he speaks of the gate of ivory and the gate of horn.

01:33:27.000 Some dreams come through the gate of ivory.

01:33:29.000 They're just pleasant fictions or maybe unpleasant ones, nightmares.

01:33:33.000 Ignore them.

01:33:34.000 They're not important, but others are true tellings, and they come through the gate of horn.

01:33:38.000 And this was a recognized factor in the ancient world.

01:33:42.000 We've dismissed it today.

01:33:43.000 It's regarded as pseudoscience.

01:33:45.000 It's regarded as nonsense.

01:33:46.000 Again, that label is constantly applied to anything archaeologists don't like.

01:33:51.000 Pseudoscience.

01:33:52.000 Right there with the label, they just dismiss everything.

01:33:55.000 They always call me a pseudoscientist, which means a false scientist.

01:33:59.000 And I find that bizarre because I'm not a scientist at all.

01:34:02.000 I've never claimed to be a scientist.

01:34:04.000 I don't want to be a scientist.

01:34:05.000 I'm a writer.

01:34:06.000 I'm a journalist.

01:34:07.000 I synthesize material across a broad range of disciplines.

01:34:10.000 So how can I be a false scientist since I've never claimed to be one?

01:34:14.000 But the word is used as a bludgeon or a club to beat an enemy over the head and ensure that nobody listens to what that enemy says.

01:34:21.000 Yeah, it's sort of a bulletproof pejorative.

01:34:23.000 You throw that out there and you're immediately dismissed.

01:34:26.000 Yeah.

01:34:27.000 But it's got to be satisfying to you going from that original book, which I became absolutely fascinated by, Fingerprints of the Gods, to slowly but surely, over time, more and more evidence being discovered in mainstream science and archaeology that affirms all these suspicions.

01:34:44.000 And then attached to what Randall has been studying his whole life, it really, the whole thing just sort of unfolds in front of your eyes.

01:34:52.000 There's a kind of perfect moment in human knowledge unfolding right now.

01:34:58.000 We now have the knowledge of this giant cataclysm that happened 12,800 years ago, which has just not been taken into account at all up to now.

01:35:08.000 And at the same time, and it's almost eerie, archaeological sites are popping up all around the world that cannot be explained by the previous model of history.

01:35:17.000 Now, with all this information that you've shown so far, the layer that shows the massive burning of the forest, the impact craters that we found, the nuclear glass, the micro diamonds,

01:35:33.000 all this evidence that the immediate shift of the climate, the mass extinction of a huge percentage of the large mammals, is the impact Period.

01:35:46.000 That period.

01:35:47.000 Is that considered in mainstream science?

01:35:50.000 Not yet.

01:35:51.000 It's considered in mainstream science because it's mainstream scientists who've presented the evidence.

01:35:56.000 All the data that you've accumulated in correspondence.

01:35:58.000 It all comes from mainstream science, published in the absolute leading scientific journals.

01:36:03.000 But you're stitching it together.

01:36:05.000 What nobody has done yet, I think I'm...

01:36:08.000 Probably the first person to do it is to take that evidence and consider its implications for the stories we tell ourselves about the origins of civilization.

01:36:17.000 Very important story.

01:36:19.000 Where did civilization come from?

01:36:20.000 What is it?

01:36:21.000 And that information has not been taken into account at all by archaeologists yet.

01:36:26.000 I hope they will do so in the future.

01:36:28.000 They need to play a very fast game of catch-up to catch up with the science on this and take it into account.

01:36:34.000 But right now, it's not being taken into account at all.

01:36:36.000 You will not find a single Archaeological document which takes account of the cataclysm that happened between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago.

01:36:45.000 A big part of the problem is specialization in science, I think.

01:36:49.000 So you've got, you know, paleontologists looking at the extinction events.

01:36:53.000 You've got, you know, marine geologists looking at sea level rise.

01:36:57.000 You've got glaciologists looking at how the glaciers disappeared.

01:37:02.000 And we're in a position now where we need to begin synthesizing all of this.

01:37:06.000 You know, what's interesting to me, though, is that it really, it almost falls on the shoulders of the mavericks, you know, the synthesizers.

01:37:12.000 And that's kind of really, right now, there's so much specialization in science that the next phase of it, I think, is beginning to integrate it, to create a coherent model of our past.

01:37:25.000 Because a lot of, like Graham was saying, a lot of the mainstream scientists have this information, right?

01:37:31.000 If we look at this graph right here, and you see how this compares with the graphs we just saw of the climate changes and the ocean level rise, this is, as it says, a late place to see mortality graph.

01:37:46.000 And this is basically looking at radiocarbon dated Fossilized remains of the extinct mammals.

01:37:53.000 And if you look carefully, you'll see that within the range that we're talking about right in here, here's your 13,000-year spike right here.

01:38:02.000 It's exactly the same time period and exactly the same as the changing of the temperature, the rising of the sea levels, massive extinction event.

01:38:13.000 Right.

01:38:13.000 And there it is right there.

01:38:14.000 Every one of these squares represents a fossilized remain.

01:38:17.000 I think 360 or 70 specimens that have been dated.

01:38:23.000 It seems insanely unlikely to me that this didn't correspond with an impact on human civilization.

01:38:30.000 Of course.

01:38:31.000 It's very clear that it did.

01:38:32.000 It seems insane that it's not, like, mainstream and...

01:38:37.000 If this is all fact, and obviously it is, How is this so glaring?

01:38:44.000 First of all, it raises a horrible possibility for archaeology that they have been completely wrong about the origins of civilization.

01:38:53.000 I mean, not just slightly wrong, but completely wrong.

01:38:57.000 Because they didn't take account of this.

01:38:59.000 That's a horrible possibility.

01:39:01.000 And it's much better to just try and get rid of the data.

01:39:04.000 I'm not saying that it's a conspiracy by archaeologists.

01:39:07.000 I'm saying it's human nature.

01:39:08.000 If you're invested in a system of ideas, so powerfully invested in it that your own personality is connected to it, you just can't accept it.

01:39:17.000 It's really hard to accept.

01:39:18.000 Almost your generation has to die off before a new generation comes that will be prepared to do it just with old age.

01:39:23.000 I'm not threatening.

01:39:24.000 No, no, I know what you mean.

01:39:24.000 I'm not threatening an assault on the world of archism.

01:39:27.000 No, you're not.

01:39:27.000 I said ooh because it impacts.

01:39:29.000 I think you're right.

01:39:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:39:31.000 And I think that's the problem, why it's not been taken.

01:39:34.000 And Randall's right.

01:39:35.000 The other problem is the intense specialization of our society.

01:39:38.000 That's one of the strengths of our society.

01:39:40.000 There's also one of the weaknesses of our society, that everybody's really good at one particular thing.

01:39:45.000 That's the only way it all works out because no one could possibly get all this work done.

01:39:49.000 And we're all interdependent upon one another, but there's not enough comparing notes across the disciplines.

01:39:56.000 And I guess that's where my skills, such as they are, come in.

01:40:00.000 I've spent my whole life synthesizing data from many different fields, and that's what I'm doing here.

01:40:06.000 And also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like part of the issue is there's no consequence to not considering this stuff.

01:40:12.000 There's no consequence to just ignoring it.

01:40:15.000 They ignore it, they teach what they've taught mainstream, and they still come out smelling like a rose and everything looks great.

01:40:20.000 Exactly.

01:40:21.000 And they all keep their jobs.

01:40:23.000 Yes.

01:40:24.000 They don't annoy their colleagues.

01:40:25.000 It's almost the opposite of that.

01:40:27.000 Because to go here, they're actually threatening their position.

01:40:33.000 They're putting their position in danger.

01:40:36.000 But I don't understand why they would be, because to me it seems like you would want to say, we have some exciting new data.

01:40:42.000 Exciting new data.

01:40:42.000 So now we have to reconsider what we already know.

01:40:46.000 We already know about this part of the world.

01:40:51.000 We already know about the Pleistocene era.

01:40:53.000 We already know about all these different eras.

01:40:55.000 But now we have this new data to consider and here all it is.

01:40:59.000 They should be excited about it.

01:41:01.000 They should be joyous that there's something here which really could change the whole picture.

01:41:06.000 But that's not the case.

01:41:08.000 It's radically opposed.

01:41:10.000 Well, it just makes your education look like shit.

01:41:13.000 Yeah, I'm afraid it does.

01:41:13.000 I mean, it's really unfortunate, but it really does.

01:41:15.000 You see, this is an area that Randall and I happen to know a lot about.

01:41:19.000 What I wonder is in other areas that I don't know about is this same phenomenon at work.

01:41:24.000 Right.

01:41:24.000 The kind of knowledge filter, which is just shutting us off.

01:41:27.000 What discipline would that be?

01:41:29.000 Are you just speculating?

01:41:30.000 Social sciences.

01:41:31.000 Any area of science.

01:41:33.000 Medicine.

01:41:33.000 How things are to be done with medicine.

01:41:35.000 How tumors are to be handled and dealt with.

01:41:39.000 We have a dogma right now that it's chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

01:41:44.000 And every other system is regarded as, what?

01:41:47.000 Pseudoscience, generally.

01:41:49.000 But maybe that's a mistake.

01:41:51.000 Maybe we should be considering the possibility of these alternative therapies.

01:41:54.000 Maybe they're better than blasting somebody with highly radioactive material.

01:41:59.000 Well, I certainly think there's some things that we don't know about the impact of nutrition and overall health and meditation and just the impact of stress and well-being and how it plays on health factors.

01:42:15.000 And I think we're going to learn all that.

01:42:17.000 I mean, I think there's probably more discussion and more focus on that than there is on stuff like this.

01:42:24.000 Sure there is.

01:42:24.000 Our personal health is important to all of us.

01:42:27.000 This is kind of a part of our personal health, too.

01:42:29.000 You bet it is, yeah.

01:42:31.000 It's a part of our understanding of the very environment that we exist in.

01:42:35.000 Where we came from, yeah, absolutely.

01:42:37.000 Now, how long did you guys road trip together?

01:42:40.000 It was about two weeks, wasn't it, Randall?

01:42:42.000 A little shy of two weeks.

01:42:43.000 And what did it entail?

01:42:45.000 Did you guys make a video of it or anything?

01:42:46.000 There was a lot of video shot.

01:42:48.000 Beautiful.

01:42:48.000 And one of Randall's colleagues, Brad, who was with us, shot video along the way.

01:42:54.000 And my wife, Santa, took photographs.

01:42:55.000 And, you know, we've documented all of this very, very, very thoroughly.

01:42:59.000 But it was an amazing road trip for me.

01:43:02.000 It was the first time, actually, I've driven a great distance across the continental United States.

01:43:07.000 I've always been in this city or that city and picking up an airplane and going here and there.

01:43:10.000 But I actually drive across this incredible, majestic area It was an enormous experience for me, and it filled me with a sense of just how huge America is.

01:43:22.000 I live in this tiny island, you know, Britain.

01:43:26.000 This giant, the open skies country that they call it in there.

01:43:29.000 It was a great initiation into a beautiful part of North America and a mysterious part of North America.

01:43:36.000 And it was great to do it with Randall because he's been walking the walk in this area for decades and he knows that landscape like the back of his hand.

01:43:44.000 Yeah, and for people that are listening to this podcast right now, and this is your first introduction to Randall and Graham, you gotta go pause right now and go back to the first one Graham was on, the first one Randall was on.

01:43:55.000 Just do a binge.

01:43:56.000 Just binge listen or binge watch.

01:43:59.000 What are we looking at here?

01:44:00.000 Well, this is Graham trespassing.

01:44:03.000 How dare you?

01:44:06.000 I'm like...

01:44:07.000 I'm watching in all directions first.

01:44:09.000 You're not supposed to be there?

01:44:10.000 No.

01:44:10.000 Well, since the first time I was there, this is, Graham actually referred to this erratic earlier.

01:44:17.000 This was one of those...

01:44:18.000 This is that 18,000 ton boulder sitting above Wenatchee.

01:44:20.000 So that was the boulder that was pushed by the waters?

01:44:22.000 No, it was carried aboard an iceberg.

01:44:26.000 An iceberg.

01:44:27.000 An iceberg.

01:44:30.000 This massive rush of water had giant rocks embedded in the iceberg.

01:44:35.000 And to float that, you need an iceberg about the size of an oil tanker.

01:44:40.000 And this is sitting 400 feet above the modern-day Columbia.

01:44:44.000 So we know that the water was at least this high.

01:44:47.000 Well, actually it had to have been higher than this because 90% of the iceberg is under the surface of the water.

01:44:53.000 And how do we know that this rock just wasn't there?

01:44:56.000 How do we know that it was carried by this...

01:44:58.000 Well, because it's not part of the bedrock.

01:45:00.000 It's sitting on top of the land surface.

01:45:03.000 Like all of these, if we look here, we've got some other...

01:45:07.000 Do we know where it came from?

01:45:08.000 Do we know how far away it originated?

01:45:10.000 Yeah, it's probably come from about 50 miles to 75 miles north of here.

01:45:16.000 The type of basalt it is has been identified.

01:45:19.000 I don't remember specifically, but when you travel over this land, you see these giant boulders just strewn about.

01:45:27.000 There's a place called Boulder Park.

01:45:29.000 It's a tourist attraction now.

01:45:30.000 You can go see it.

01:45:32.000 And you can see there, I mean, the size of that.

01:45:35.000 Let's see.

01:45:36.000 Oh my god.

01:45:37.000 So they just stand out, like, out of nowhere.

01:45:40.000 Yeah, and we know this had to have been transported aboard an iceberg for the simple reason that if it was carried within the glacier mass like a typical glacier erratic, you wouldn't have those sharp square corners like that.

01:45:53.000 A glacier radic gets ground off.

01:45:56.000 And oftentimes, this thing was transported almost 200 miles from, its likely origin was Mount Robeson.

01:46:02.000 And we didn't get to this one.

01:46:04.000 But this is evidence that the flooding was much more extensive than just the Missoula flooding.

01:46:10.000 Because this is, the Missoula flooding that we were looking at was on the west side of the I think I should just jump in there and say that it isn't any longer controversial that there was gigantic flooding in the Pacific Northwest and indeed across the whole range just south of the ice camp.

01:46:30.000 That is accepted now.

01:46:31.000 But the very idea that there was flooding at all was hotly opposed for decades.

01:46:37.000 There was a great American geologist called Jay Harlan Bretz who was the first to document the fact that there had been colossal flooding in that area.

01:46:44.000 And he lived in the 1900s, 1920s, and because he suggested that there had been a cataclysm, of course, he was exiled by his colleagues.

01:46:54.000 Eventually, his data prevailed, and he was awarded the Penrose Medal, the highest award of the geology in America, in 1976, when he was like 96 years old.

01:47:05.000 That must have sucked for him.

01:47:06.000 And he said then, he said, all my enemies are dead, so I have no one left to gloat over.

01:47:12.000 That's what he said?

01:47:13.000 Yes.

01:47:14.000 But it's so disturbing to me that it works like that.

01:47:17.000 It works like that.

01:47:18.000 They're demonized.

01:47:19.000 But what happened, you see, was Harlan Bretz was convinced from the beginning that he was dealing, and this is a very experienced field geologist, that he was dealing with a single humongous flood, which had risen and fallen within perhaps two weeks.

01:47:33.000 That was his evidence on the ground.

01:47:34.000 And he was attacked because people kept saying, well, where did the water come from?

01:47:38.000 You know, what's the source of this water?

01:47:40.000 And he said, that's not my problem.

01:47:42.000 I am showing you the clear, unmistakable evidence of flooding on the ground.

01:47:47.000 Flooding happened.

01:47:48.000 Somebody else go work out where the water came from.

01:48:03.000 I think we're good to go.

01:48:12.000 Which completely contradicts Haaland-Bretz's view that it was a two-week flood, one single event.

01:48:18.000 But the compromise was accepted that the cause of the flooding was Glacial Lake, Missoula.

01:48:23.000 That is now going to have to be reviewed because of the comet evidence.

01:48:27.000 If Haaland-Bretz, if J. Haaland-Bretz had had the information we have today, he would have known instantly what caused that single humongous flood.

01:48:36.000 And that was the liquidizing of a huge area of the North American ice cap.

01:48:42.000 It's so fascinating that the obsessions of a few people come together like this, and you can kind of piece these things together on a podcast.

01:48:50.000 Randall, what is this crazy image you're showing us here?

01:48:51.000 Well, this is actually out of a 19th century text when catastrophism, before catastrophism, had been completely exorcised from mainstream geology.

01:49:00.000 And this was...

01:49:03.000 Louis Figuer, I think was his name, who speculated that the ice sheets over northwestern Europe had catastrophically melted down.

01:49:12.000 And he had an illustration in his geology text which perfectly captures how these large erratics are actually being transported aboard these icebergs.

01:49:23.000 And you can see the scale of the thing.

01:49:25.000 And this is the kind of, you see whole forests are about to be washed away here.

01:49:29.000 And this image, the first time I saw it, I thought, well, here it is.

01:49:33.000 This depicts the kind of field evidence that we've been looking at here.

01:49:39.000 So that's why I've included this here, because it helps to visualize what we're talking about.

01:49:45.000 This was a place that Graham and I visited here, which really spectacularly embodies this whole phenomenon.

01:49:52.000 This is known as Dry Falls Cataract.

01:49:55.000 And it's about five miles wide, and I'm going to show you ground photographs and a couple of aerial photographs of it, so you can kind of get the scale of the thing.

01:50:04.000 And the great thing is, anybody can go there.

01:50:05.000 This is on the land.

01:50:07.000 It's ours to look at.

01:50:08.000 We can all go and see this.

01:50:09.000 It's an amazing trip to see it.

01:50:11.000 You could go there, Joe.

01:50:12.000 They would let you in there to see this.

01:50:15.000 Where were you trespassing?

01:50:17.000 Oh, on that particular shot, that huge 18,000 ton boulder is surrounded by notices which say, no trespassing.

01:50:24.000 They weren't there when I was there a few years ago.

01:50:26.000 Don't step on it.

01:50:26.000 So, I trespassed.

01:50:28.000 I mean, the thing is made a basalt and my footstep is not going to do it any harm.

01:50:32.000 Yeah, I bet you nobody even noticed that Graham had been up there.

01:50:36.000 So it's not like a private property issue?

01:50:38.000 It's like they're just trying to keep people from...

01:50:40.000 I think it is actually a private property issue.

01:50:41.000 Probably is.

01:50:42.000 Because I have noticed from the first time I went there, which was, gosh, I don't know, 98, I think...

01:50:47.000 There was no houses on that hillside.

01:50:49.000 Now the houses are moving up the hillside.

01:50:52.000 There's been development and so forth.

01:50:53.000 Of course.

01:50:54.000 There was houses pretty much right around it.

01:50:56.000 Yeah, we're going to overrun it and there'll be no evidence.

01:50:58.000 You guys got to accumulate your evidence while you can before condos go up there.

01:51:02.000 That's also true.

01:51:03.000 Now, you'll notice that there's a series of these alcoves here that, you know, these horseshoe-shaped...

01:51:09.000 We're back on the image of Dry Falls.

01:51:10.000 Yeah, back on the image of Dry Falls, exactly.

01:51:13.000 And at some point, somebody's going to be able to see these images, right?

01:51:16.000 Yeah, well, people can go and Google them online, but they'll see them right now on YouTube if they watch the YouTube version of the show.

01:51:22.000 If they see the YouTube, okay.

01:51:23.000 So here's a typical Horseshoe Falls of Niagara, which is a modern cataract, receding cataract.

01:51:31.000 And this horseshoe shape is very typical of the way water will erode bedrock.

01:51:36.000 Because water flows faster in the middle of the stream, therefore it erodes faster in the middle and not so much as you get towards the margins.

01:51:44.000 And so it creates this classic horseshoe-shaped profile.

01:51:48.000 And that's what we're seeing here at Dry Falls.

01:51:51.000 Now this is just one of the alcoves of about half a dozen of the alcoves that we saw in the map of it.

01:51:57.000 In other words, this is a monstrously big waterfall.

01:52:01.000 Yes.

01:52:02.000 Dry today.

01:52:03.000 Just off to the left of the picture is where, actually, there's a photograph in Graham's book taken from, let's go back, we skipped over it.

01:52:15.000 There it is.

01:52:15.000 This is the viewpoint, and this is Horseshoe Falls of Niagara superimposed on Dry Falls, so you can get a sense of the scale.

01:52:21.000 So Niagara Falls is a tiny, tiny little thing.

01:52:24.000 Yeah.

01:52:24.000 By comparison with this ancient fossilized waterfall, which dates back 12,800 years.

01:52:30.000 Niagara Falls is the result of 12,000 or more years of work of the river.

01:52:34.000 Dry Falls between Upper and Lower Grand Coulee in Washington State is the result of two weeks of flooding.

01:52:40.000 What?

01:52:41.000 Yeah.

01:52:42.000 Try to explain this for people that are listening, because it's probably 10 times bigger plus.

01:52:48.000 More than that.

01:52:49.000 How many times bigger?

01:52:50.000 It's two and a half times as high.

01:52:52.000 And well, figure this.

01:52:53.000 The discharge over of the Niagara River, over the falls, is a couple hundred thousand cubic feet per second, maximum.

01:53:01.000 The discharge over Grand Coulee was somewhere between 300 and 400 million cubic feet per second, or in other words, somewhere between 10 and 20 times the combined flow of every river on Earth flowing all at once.

01:53:15.000 And the height of this scarp face here, this cliff, is about 400 feet.

01:53:20.000 The water coming over was about 400 feet deep.

01:53:25.000 So if you were here witnessing this at the peak of the flood, you wouldn't in fact even see a waterfall.

01:53:32.000 What you would see is this massive 10 mile wide turgid river Choked with icebergs and debris and whole forests that had been ripped up.

01:53:41.000 And that river is rattle flowing at what, 60, 70 miles an hour?

01:53:43.000 60, 70 miles an hour.

01:53:45.000 What you would have seen here was just a bump in this flood.

01:53:49.000 And then only at the latter stages of it would it actually have been a waterfall.

01:53:54.000 As the water source was dissipating and as the water was declining, you would have the final stage of it being a waterfall, then eventually the waterfall stopped And what you have today is this fossilized feature of this massive—and this is only one of about a half a dozen comparable-sized cataracts.

01:54:13.000 We didn't get to see potholes or Frenchman Coulee next time, perhaps.

01:54:17.000 So many others.

01:54:18.000 I'd urge anybody listening to this, if you can do so, get up to Washington State and go visit Upper and Lower Grand Coulee.

01:54:25.000 It's a stunning landscape.

01:54:27.000 It's a great trip to make, and you can see the evidence on the ground.

01:54:31.000 And, you know, people don't know about it.

01:54:33.000 Like here, this is Utah.

01:54:35.000 And what you see here is once you begin to understand cataract formation, and you understand the morphology of a cataract, you look at something like this, and what you're looking at is cataracts.

01:54:46.000 Extinct cataracts out in Canyonlands, Utah.

01:54:49.000 And they're massively scaled.

01:54:51.000 But no geologists...

01:54:53.000 See, here's the problem.

01:54:54.000 Geologists haven't been focused on catastrophism.

01:54:57.000 What they've been doing, they work for the government, they work for the oil companies.

01:55:01.000 They're more interested in what's down below.

01:55:03.000 The natural gas, the oil and stuff.

01:55:06.000 That's who the money is.

01:55:06.000 There's another point I'd like to add to that, Randall, as to why geologists are not focused on catastrophes.

01:55:14.000 Geology is a science, and science in effect defined itself as being different from religious superstition.

01:55:23.000 So the notion of the great flood that we find in the Bible became a very discredited notion in science.

01:55:30.000 And by association with that, any suggestion of a great cataclysm in the past was seen as superstitious behavior to be shunned completely by the squeaky clean shiny new sciences who must never take that into account.

01:55:48.000 So any geologist Who dares to propose a cataclysmic episode is up against that right away.

01:55:54.000 That his colleagues don't want to go there because they're afraid that they're going to be accused of buying into Noah's flood or whatever.

01:56:01.000 That's so unfortunate.

01:56:03.000 But it's true.

01:56:03.000 And this is the problem.

01:56:05.000 So there's catastrophism and uniformitarianism.

01:56:08.000 And the prevailing dogma in geology is the uniformitarian dogma, which is basically to say the way we see things in the world today, that's how it's always been.

01:56:17.000 It's never been any change.

01:56:19.000 So, Randall, what is the mainstream understanding of those formations?

01:56:25.000 Like, when they look at those...

01:56:27.000 The Utah ones, for example.

01:56:28.000 Gigantic Utah...

01:56:29.000 I have searched and searched and I find nothing.

01:56:33.000 They just don't explain it.

01:56:34.000 They don't explain it.

01:56:35.000 They just go, oh, look how pretty.

01:56:36.000 Do you think the flooding went as far south as Utah?

01:56:38.000 Not directly glacial.

01:56:40.000 I think what we're looking at has to be torrential rain.

01:56:42.000 Right.

01:56:43.000 Which is another association of this impact.

01:56:46.000 Yes.

01:56:46.000 Picture this huge impact on the ice cap.

01:56:50.000 An enormous amount of watery material is thrown up into the atmosphere.

01:56:55.000 Not only water, but also mud.

01:56:57.000 And you get this rain out, which comes down for a long period after that.

01:57:03.000 And I'm not necessarily saying that all of that was stripped in one event because the Pleistocene is basically two and a half million years.

01:57:12.000 I think 2.6 million is the latest dating of it.

01:57:15.000 And there's been probably a dozen or two dozen ice ages that have come and gone.

01:57:22.000 To me, the evidence I'm seeing suggests that the transition from glacial to interglacial and back again is not a smooth process.

01:57:29.000 In fact, it's probably highly catastrophic.

01:57:33.000 Not necessarily as catastrophic as the event we're talking about 12,800 years ago, but certainly catastrophic enough that were an event of equivalent magnitude to happen today, we could maybe not cause a mass extinction, but we could certainly pull the plug on modern civilization.

01:57:50.000 And so...

01:57:52.000 This picture is interesting because what it does is it shows that you travel over this landscape.

01:57:59.000 Explain what this picture is and where is it?

01:58:01.000 Okay, you know, now this is in western Montana, and this is a place called Dry Creek.

01:58:10.000 And what this is is just a gravel pit.

01:58:12.000 But what you see here is deposits caused by surging floodwaters moving up tributary valleys, loaded with sediment.

01:58:21.000 And one of the things that a stratigrapher or sedimentologist looks at is, you notice how they're tilted.

01:58:28.000 You see how the layers are tilted?

01:58:30.000 Okay, that's an indication of which direction the water is moving.

01:58:34.000 The tilting goes down in the direction that the water is flowing.

01:58:39.000 So what we see here is massive, turbulent, sediment-laden floodwaters back flooding up a valley, surging, leaving deposits, and then flowing back out, followed by another wave, followed by another wave,

01:58:55.000 For now, for 13,000 years, 12,000 years, this material has been laying there, and you see that there's forests growing over it.

01:59:04.000 Okay, people traveling over this landscape don't see what's under their feet.

01:59:10.000 You see?

01:59:11.000 But once you get an outcrop like this, and you understand and you can read what you're seeing here, then suddenly it becomes apparent that the very hills and landscape that we live on, that we've built our cities on, and our highways, and that we're playing out all these dramas right under our feet.

01:59:29.000 Is the evidence of previous worlds.

01:59:31.000 You have to understand that what you're looking at there is the debris of a former world that was pulverized by these floods, carried in and deposited, and now a new world has emerged out of that and on top of this wreckage.

01:59:47.000 And in that former world.

01:59:49.000 Existed, I believe, an advanced civilization that is memorized in myths and traditions all around the world, that has been ridiculed by archaeologists, but it is insistent and the evidence keeps on coming forward.

02:00:03.000 Well, it all makes sense.

02:00:05.000 It really does.

02:00:06.000 It's all shocking and stunning and fantastic, but it all makes sense.

02:00:11.000 I think it does make sense.

02:00:13.000 And I think it's something – it's part of the human heritage.

02:00:16.000 It's something that we all have to get to grips with.

02:00:18.000 Again, this is one of the things I find encouraging about – One of the developments in the world today is that more and more people do appear to be thinking for themselves.

02:00:30.000 There was a time when we took the word of specialists.

02:00:35.000 Dr. X or Professor Y said this.

02:00:38.000 It had to be true.

02:00:39.000 That was so actually when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods in 1995. That was the first argument, was the argument from authority.

02:00:46.000 The authorities say this cannot be so, therefore it is not so, and a lot of people just bought that.

02:00:51.000 What's changed, I think, in the last 20 years is that that subservience to authority has gone away.

02:00:59.000 It hasn't gone away completely, but we don't trust authority anymore, rightly and properly, because we've been lied to by authority figures, and we know they lied to us, and we saw the evidence, whether it's politicians or Big corporations or the big religions.

02:01:14.000 There's an uprising against this and an assertion of individual will and of individual intellect to inquire into the past.

02:01:22.000 And I think that that's why this information now is coming at a time where it's falling on fertile ground.

02:01:29.000 There will still be a lot of resistance to it.

02:01:31.000 We can expect that resistance to be fierce and to go on.

02:01:35.000 But things are shifting in the world.

02:01:37.000 Just as our picture of the past is shifting, so our picture of who we are and what we're meant to be doing here is shifting as well.

02:01:44.000 Have you guys thought about coming together and doing a documentary?

02:01:47.000 I'd love to do a documentary around it.

02:01:49.000 You guys together, it's a must-do.

02:01:51.000 I mean, it just seems like the book is, I'm sure, going to be fantastic, but there's going to be people that are just not going to read a book.

02:01:58.000 Documentaries are so easy.

02:01:59.000 All you just do is open your stupid mouth, lay down, you know, turn on Netflix, and bam!

02:02:05.000 You know, you can absorb it.

02:02:07.000 It might happen.

02:02:08.000 People are lazy.

02:02:08.000 It's highly visual material.

02:02:10.000 So visual.

02:02:11.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

02:02:12.000 It's so visual in the two of you together.

02:02:14.000 We need to crowdfund something.

02:02:16.000 Can I make an appeal?

02:02:17.000 It's the first time I've ever done this.

02:02:18.000 It's a kind of little pitch.

02:02:19.000 It's a little pitch.

02:02:20.000 Okay, I've never asked for this before.

02:02:22.000 What I'm asking to those who value and appreciate my work and feel that I'm doing something useful in the world.

02:02:50.000 I'm asking that now of people who value my work.

02:02:53.000 People are huge, huge fans of your appearances here and huge, huge fans of your work.

02:02:59.000 If this is the latest and greatest, I'm sure people are going to go out and buy it in droves.

02:03:04.000 So, Magicians of the Gods, you can get it on Amazon, you can get it on your website, you can get it pretty much everywhere, right?

02:03:09.000 Yeah, go to my website and all the links and the whole background on the book is there.

02:03:15.000 I hugely appreciate, deeply appreciate the support that my readers have given me.

02:03:22.000 I would be Nothing without my readers.

02:03:25.000 That's why every time I do an event, I sit there for two to three hours afterwards talking to people and signing books because the readers are the most important people in my universe and they're who give me strength.

02:03:38.000 Without my readers, I'm literally nothing and I value and appreciate them.

02:03:43.000 And I'm on a journey across...

02:03:44.000 America now and I'm speaking in many many different cities and the whole program is up on my website on the talks and events page.

02:03:51.000 We'll make sure we tweet that stuff and get that information out and I'll get that information out for the entirety of the time you're here.

02:03:58.000 Just let me know where you're gonna be and I'll let everybody know when you're gonna be there.

02:04:02.000 Since we're plugging, I'd like to plug.

02:04:04.000 I've got this.

02:04:05.000 What is that?

02:04:06.000 Well, it's about a four and a half hour presentation.

02:04:09.000 Of course it is.

02:04:11.000 Of graphics.

02:04:13.000 Video clips, animations...

02:04:16.000 And it's all you?

02:04:17.000 Yeah.

02:04:18.000 And what is it called?

02:04:19.000 Cosmic Patterns and Cycles of Catastrophe.

02:04:22.000 We can go to the Sacred Geometry International website.

02:04:26.000 I think Cameron Wiltshire, who you know, who introduced us, I think he's doing a special on it now.

02:04:35.000 Okay.

02:04:36.000 33% off or something.

02:04:37.000 So what is the actual URL of the website?

02:04:40.000 Well, it would be sacredgeometryinternational.com.

02:04:44.000 There it is.

02:04:45.000 Jamie's pulled it up right there.

02:04:46.000 So cosmic patterns and cycles of catastrophe.

02:04:49.000 Yes.

02:04:50.000 33.33% off.

02:04:52.000 What is that all about?

02:04:54.000 You'll have to ask Cameron about that.

02:04:56.000 There's some hidden numerology in there somewhere?

02:04:59.000 Apparently.

02:04:59.000 And you'll notice coupon code, MAGICIANS. Ah, there you go.

02:05:03.000 Magicians of the Gods.

02:05:04.000 That must be a reference.

02:05:05.000 I think it probably corresponds.

02:05:09.000 So I really think that you guys have to do one of these things together as a documentary.

02:05:13.000 I mean, I think it's just...

02:05:14.000 I think someone out there, someone's listening to this, probably some kooks that we don't want doing this documentary, but there's got to be somebody out there that's legit.

02:05:23.000 We just need to find them and put it together.

02:05:25.000 Yeah.

02:05:25.000 I want to pay tribute to Randall's work.

02:05:28.000 Randall is a really important figure in this field and he's very modest and he's been standing back and he's not been out there enough.

02:05:37.000 It's time that people understood the fantastic knowledge that this man has and the ground experience.

02:05:42.000 You can't beat that.

02:05:43.000 Well, I met Randall in...

02:05:45.000 God, it was the early 2000s, right?

02:05:48.000 Well, when you were at the Punchline.

02:05:50.000 Yeah, in Atlanta.

02:05:51.000 Yeah.

02:05:52.000 Which doesn't even exist anymore.

02:05:53.000 It's gone now.

02:05:54.000 Close to 10 years ago, I think.

02:05:55.000 It was quite a while ago.

02:05:56.000 And we had this conversation after my show, and he's...

02:06:00.000 We're just sitting down.

02:06:02.000 He was talking to me about the Holocene and all these different impacts.

02:06:06.000 And I remember walking away from...

02:06:08.000 We talked for quite a while after the show.

02:06:11.000 But I remember going, that might be the craziest fucking post-show conversation I've ever had.

02:06:15.000 Because usually, after a comedy show, you have a conversation with people.

02:06:19.000 Hey, where's a good place to eat?

02:06:21.000 Do you like Atlanta?

02:06:23.000 Normal stuff.

02:06:24.000 And he's just...

02:06:26.000 Flooding me with information.

02:06:28.000 I'm like, who is this guy?

02:06:30.000 Well, I remember walking away from it going, wow!

02:06:32.000 I had no idea that Joe Rogan really related to all this stuff, you know?

02:06:37.000 Oh, I was fascinated.

02:06:38.000 I was surprised.

02:06:39.000 Can I add something there?

02:06:40.000 Which is, I'd like to say something about you, Joe.

02:06:43.000 It's a phenomenon.

02:06:45.000 I travel all around the world and I give presentations in just countries everywhere.

02:06:50.000 And everywhere I go, people come up to me and they said, Joe Rogan sent us to you.

02:06:55.000 We know about your work because of Joe Rogan.

02:06:57.000 And I see that what you're doing is exploring many, many controversial areas in your show.

02:07:02.000 You're in a position of power.

02:07:04.000 And your listeners, just as my readers are my strength, your listeners are your strength.

02:07:09.000 They've put you in a position of power.

02:07:11.000 But you're a person who's using that power for something really good.

02:07:15.000 There are so many people who are powerful in the world of the media who just wasted away on trivia and nothing.

02:07:21.000 You are bringing new information to people all around the world.

02:07:24.000 And I can tell you because I meet them every time I give an event, you are enormously appreciated.

02:07:29.000 Well, I appreciate them very much.

02:07:30.000 And I appreciate you guys and I appreciate this show because this whole thing came about without any planning.

02:07:36.000 This show just sort of became itself.

02:07:39.000 It's almost like I just happened to be there to germinate it or something.

02:07:45.000 Try to get out of my own way as much as possible and follow my curiosity.

02:07:50.000 And the beautiful thing about people like you guys is without you, take away you and fingerprints of the gods, take away you and what are we looking at?

02:08:00.000 I mean, it's very rare when you have two human beings that, without them, an entire field of study would be barren of a great deal of its information.

02:08:11.000 I mean, you have John Anthony West and Robert Schock, and you were obviously a part of all that, and John Anthony West, who's absolutely fascinating.

02:08:18.000 Fascinating, fascinating.

02:08:19.000 Fascinating guy.

02:08:20.000 And another guy, widely maligned, a guy who's ignored.

02:08:23.000 But Magical Egypt is one of the greatest DVD series to this day that I've ever seen in my life.

02:08:30.000 And if you've got the time and the attention span to sit down and watch all of them, it is amazing.

02:08:36.000 Amazing.

02:08:36.000 John Anthony West is one of my favorite people on the planet.

02:08:39.000 He's incredible.

02:08:40.000 Absolutely brilliant researcher.

02:08:41.000 John more than anybody else who opened my mind to the mysteries of ancient Egypt.

02:08:46.000 Fantastic work.

02:08:47.000 He's a world treasure.

02:08:48.000 He is a world treasure.

02:08:49.000 He's a great, great, great man.

02:08:50.000 And I think that DVD series is just one petal, one unfolding of the great flower of information that you guys are presenting.

02:09:02.000 And another name I'll drop in there, which is Robert Boval, the originator of the Orion Coronation Theory.

02:09:07.000 He's done so much to bring back attention to the importance of the skies in the ancient world and what it means for our understanding of our past.

02:09:14.000 And again, His evidence also points back to this period of 12,800 years ago.

02:09:19.000 And while we're at it, Robert Schock really stuck his neck out from Boston University, really one of the first mainstream scholars that went out on a limb and said, we are absolutely looking at water erosion.

02:09:30.000 Robert Schock is a key figure in this field.

02:09:33.000 He's very courageous to be a mainstream academic, to be a professor of geology at Boston.

02:09:38.000 It was John West who introduced Robert Schock to the notion that the Sphinx might be much older, that the weathering on it...

02:09:44.000 Thank you.

02:10:03.000 Satisfying object of curiosity from for me at least when when I start thinking about these things It's almost like little things start firing off in my brain.

02:10:11.000 It's so it's so exciting I mean it's horrific to think about the poor people that lived back then that got hit by these massive impacts and the The aftermath of it all must have been insane but to think about now In 2015,

02:10:27.000 the slow unveiling of all this data and information, and as it all gets into focus and you try to get a clearer and clearer view of what could have possibly happened in the past, I find it so incredibly enriching and fascinating.

02:10:43.000 To me, one of the most exciting aspects of the potential of archaeology.

02:10:49.000 Just to be able to discover, like, oh, that's what happened.

02:10:53.000 Mm-hmm.

02:10:53.000 Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

02:10:55.000 It's a kind of aha moment.

02:10:57.000 Suddenly the pieces fall into place and we understand what we've forgotten.

02:11:01.000 And again, it cements that statement that you made that resonated with me, that we are a civilization with amnesia.

02:11:08.000 Yeah.

02:11:08.000 Yeah, we got knocked on the head and we lost a lot.

02:11:12.000 We lost a lot.

02:11:13.000 And there is that haunting sense of incompleteness within so many of us that comes from that lost memory, I feel.

02:11:18.000 It's like any amnesiac has a sense of something missing.

02:11:21.000 A whole species has that.

02:11:23.000 I think what makes this really so potent is the fact that there are considerable implications for our own future.

02:11:29.000 Oh, absolutely.

02:11:31.000 And I think that, you know, how Graham wraps up the book really is about our future.

02:11:35.000 You know, and once now that we've integrated this information into our worldview, you know, what does it imply in terms of where we go from here?

02:11:46.000 Because one of the things that I track, and if you could throw this up on the screen for just a second, I'm going to speed through something really quick here so that you can kind of get the impression.

02:11:57.000 1989. Let me just...

02:12:03.000 Giant asteroid makes close call by Earth.

02:12:06.000 While Randall's fixing that, let's also remind that we had a relatively close pass with a half kilometer wide, actually bit of a comet, just over Halloween.

02:12:16.000 And the interesting thing is that NASA only found that object...

02:12:21.000 On the 10th of October.

02:12:22.000 Right.

02:12:23.000 Okay, it missed us.

02:12:24.000 It passed about the distance of the moon from the Earth.

02:12:26.000 That's not that far.

02:12:27.000 That's not that far.

02:12:28.000 But the key thing is that they only found it a few days before it passed.

02:12:34.000 Oh, God.

02:12:35.000 And how many other objects are out there?

02:12:36.000 And half a kilometer wide?

02:12:38.000 Half a kilometer wide, yeah.

02:12:39.000 So the one that hit Tunguska was?

02:12:41.000 100 meters.

02:12:43.000 Oh!

02:12:43.000 Jesus Christ, it's freaking me out.

02:12:46.000 This is a minimum.

02:12:47.000 A minimum.

02:12:49.000 Yeah.

02:12:49.000 Of 150 to 200 times the volume of Tungusi.

02:12:53.000 And when you look at the universe and just look at our galaxy, the size of our galaxy, look at our solar system, the size of our solar system, that is literally like getting grazed by a bullet.

02:13:05.000 It's like getting grazed.

02:13:06.000 Absolutely.

02:13:07.000 And it's so close.

02:13:08.000 That's a good analogy.

02:13:09.000 It's a really good analogy.

02:13:11.000 When you think about it, you know, you say, well, a half a kilometer Compared to the Earth, that's not big.

02:13:17.000 But like when, you know, you think of a slug from a 32, right?

02:13:23.000 If I threw it at you and hit you with it, it wouldn't do much.

02:13:26.000 But if I accelerate it to a thousand feet per second, it's going to cause extreme trauma, right?

02:13:32.000 But now we're looking at these asteroids flying in comet debris, and they're 10 times, 20 times the speed of a rifle bullet when they hit our atmosphere.

02:13:41.000 Like, you know, 50, 60, 70,000 miles per hour.

02:13:44.000 And the kinetic punch of something like that is inconceivable.

02:13:50.000 It's like Graham said, I mean, to talk about it, you'd have to take our entire nuclear arsenal, Of the peak of the Cold War detonated all at once, and even that would only be a fraction of the forces unleashed.

02:14:04.000 Now watch this.

02:14:05.000 I'm going to go through this real quick here, and you'll get the idea, I think.

02:14:11.000 That where we're at, because astronomers are looking out into our cosmic environment, and this is what they're seeing.

02:14:18.000 Look at this.

02:14:19.000 Let's explain this, because most of us are listening, not watching.

02:14:23.000 Nine objects have come close to the Earth since 1991. Read that.

02:14:30.000 Asteroid estimates are too low.

02:14:33.000 This was October of 2000. Current predictions for the number of potentially dangerous asteroids have been underestimated by at least 20%, say, astronomers.

02:14:43.000 According to recent calculations, there are between 750 and 900 asteroids circling the Earth.

02:15:07.000 Too late.

02:15:11.000 I'm saying this because we have the capacity to do something about it.

02:15:15.000 It takes goodwill on the part of the human race to stop wasting money on stupid, stupid pursuits, particularly warfare, and to apply that resource, those resources, to sweeping clean our cosmic environment.

02:15:29.000 The technology already exists.

02:15:31.000 It's going to cause...

02:15:32.000 I mean, it's going to have to...

02:15:35.000 There's going to have to be a massive shift in our attention.

02:15:39.000 There has to almost be an event that takes place that makes people wake up.

02:15:44.000 Right.

02:15:44.000 We have World Asteroid Day right now.

02:15:46.000 Some prominent figures are behind it, like Brian May.

02:15:48.000 I think he was one of the guitarists with Queen, if I remember correctly.

02:15:52.000 There is publicity around so-called World Asteroid Day, but nobody's taking it seriously.

02:15:57.000 Well, we don't take anything seriously unless it smacks us.

02:16:00.000 People don't quit cigarettes until they get cancer.

02:16:02.000 There's something about human beings that we don't consider the possible.

02:16:06.000 We have this idea in our head that we're eternal and we're going to live forever and everything's going to be fine.

02:16:11.000 I just need a new Lexus.

02:16:13.000 You know what I mean?

02:16:13.000 We have this wacky, I just need this watch that I have out of my eye on or this laptop that I want to buy.

02:16:19.000 If something happened, if a massive collision hit China and wiped out several million people and then caused the entire Earth to go into nuclear winter and crops died and we experienced global famine, then,

02:16:34.000 something like that, then we would wake up and go, all right, Russia, let's talk.

02:16:40.000 Let's get together.

02:16:41.000 I'm hoping that it doesn't take anything quite that extreme.

02:16:44.000 Me too.

02:16:45.000 Of Tunguska in 1908, I think that would be enough to do it.

02:16:49.000 That would be nice.

02:16:50.000 But would it be?

02:16:51.000 Because there was this incident in Russia that was last year that was caught on all those dashboard cameras.

02:16:56.000 What's the wonderful thing about Russia is apparently there's so much...

02:16:59.000 Like insurance crime and so many collisions with each other that a lot of people over in Russia have dash cams.

02:17:06.000 Okay, right.

02:17:06.000 I was wondering why.

02:17:07.000 So because of those dash cams, that's how we have all this footage of these meteors that blew up in the atmosphere and didn't even land.

02:17:18.000 But we have some from inside schools where people were watching this thing happen and go down.

02:17:25.000 And that was nothing.

02:17:26.000 Yeah, that was a fraction of the size of the Tunguska event.

02:17:29.000 But nobody was killed, you see.

02:17:32.000 If that object had been a little bigger, or a little denser, its angle of approach had been a little steeper, you might have been looking at 1,500 deaths rather than just 1,500 injuries.

02:17:45.000 I think that would have been a wake-up call, perhaps.

02:17:48.000 Maybe not enough to reorient civilization.

02:17:52.000 But I guarantee you, a Tunguska event over a major Inhabited area of the globe, wiping out a million people?

02:18:01.000 I can't imagine that that wouldn't have some kind of effect on our attitude towards our vulnerability in the cosmos and make people think maybe there's something bigger we need to be paying attention to here rather than, you know, Kardashian's butt.

02:18:17.000 We've got to realize we're not invulnerable.

02:18:19.000 This is the illusion created by modern technology.

02:18:22.000 We need to make a war on asteroids like we have a war on terror.

02:18:26.000 Well, you know, Congress just passed.

02:18:30.000 At least that would be a useful project, is to actually do something that could benefit and serve the human race instead of multiplying fear and hatred.

02:18:38.000 Well, see, that's the thing.

02:18:39.000 These asteroids are actually extraordinary sources of resources, natural resources, platinum-group metals and hydrocarbons and water and precious metals.

02:18:49.000 All of these things that we're mining from the Earth now exist in those asteroids that are threatening the planet.

02:18:56.000 And we're not...

02:18:58.000 That far away from being able to develop the technologies and the industries to actually go and rendezvous with an asteroid.

02:19:06.000 Of course, it's a matter of, like Graham was saying, I mean, this last Halloween asteroid, they didn't find it but a couple of weeks before it passed by the Earth.

02:19:14.000 So we need a lot more capabilities of seeing what's out there.

02:19:20.000 Yeah.

02:19:22.000 And we're developing that, but at a very slow pace.

02:19:24.000 So there are practical suggestions that come out of all of this.

02:19:28.000 This isn't just about the past, as Randall said.

02:19:30.000 This is also about the future of the human race and what we do and how we live on this gorgeous planet that the universe gave us and how we pay back.

02:19:39.000 For being given that opportunity.

02:19:41.000 And so the current ideas are to somehow or another nudge these asteroids out of the way?

02:19:48.000 There's about 10 different technologies to do it.

02:19:51.000 What you don't really want to do is to blow it up with a nuclear bomb.

02:19:54.000 Because then you get buckshot.

02:19:56.000 Instead of a single bullet.

02:19:58.000 And buckshot can do a lot of harm as well.

02:20:01.000 And it may even push it into a more catastrophic orbit.

02:20:04.000 So you don't want to do that.

02:20:05.000 But what you can do, for example, is to change the reflectivity of one side of the asteroid or comet fragment.

02:20:12.000 You can alter that, effectively paint it, and that affects the sun's radiation upon it, and that would be enough to shift it slightly out of its course.

02:20:20.000 There are a lot of techniques and suggestions, or nudges.

02:20:24.000 You put your finger on exactly the right word.

02:20:27.000 This is another of the technologies.

02:20:28.000 You just nudge these things.

02:20:29.000 You just don't need to do much, and you put them into a safe place instead of a dangerous place.

02:20:35.000 It's such a bizarre idea that there's hundreds of thousands of killers out there.

02:20:39.000 You just have to, excuse me, just run over there, please.

02:20:42.000 A little bit of this.

02:20:43.000 And then also we have to look out for all of them.

02:20:46.000 The ones that are coming from down there, the ones that are coming from up here.

02:20:49.000 Three-dimensional space.

02:20:51.000 That's what we really have to think of, because when we look at the sky, oh, I hope an asteroid's not coming our way.

02:20:56.000 From where, fucker?

02:20:58.000 This thing is crazy.

02:21:00.000 And is it coming from the direction of the sun so that we can't see it except with very special cameras?

02:21:03.000 And that was the case with Tunguska.

02:21:05.000 In fact, if you read the eyewitness accounts, they describe how it looks like it was being disgorged from the sun or being expelled from the sun or was like a second sun in the sky.

02:21:14.000 And that was because that summertime torrid stream is coming from behind the sun.

02:21:22.000 And so, yeah, you can't see them.

02:21:25.000 Well, because of the gravity of the Sun, the mass of the Sun, doesn't that affect how we see things behind it anyway?

02:21:31.000 Yeah, it should do.

02:21:32.000 It warps our vision.

02:21:35.000 So, like, something could be coming from behind the Sun, and we literally would not even see it because of the mass and gravity of the Sun if it was in the right area.

02:21:44.000 Yeah, Tunguska was not seen really until it came into the atmosphere.

02:21:50.000 It came into the atmosphere.

02:21:51.000 But that was obviously a long time ago and there was not nearly as much observation in the skies as there are today, right?

02:21:57.000 These are the steps that we need to take.

02:22:01.000 We need to grow up as a species.

02:22:03.000 We need to leave our childhood behind.

02:22:07.000 It's interesting to speculate what would happen if we had impacts on the scale that happened 12,800 years ago.

02:22:16.000 And I'm pretty sure that it would mean, if it were allowed to happen, that it would mean the end of our civilization.

02:22:24.000 This civilization would go down.

02:22:26.000 This is a very intensely specialized civilization.

02:22:30.000 I think the just-in-time principle is that we have two-day or three-day food supply in our cities.

02:22:36.000 You interrupt that and you have a kind of walking dead scenario within a week, you know.

02:22:41.000 It's that bad.

02:22:42.000 This civilization appears to be very strong but in fact it's very fragile and it could easily fall apart.

02:22:50.000 And so many of us in the Western technological world actually have no survival skills whatsoever.

02:22:57.000 We don't know how to survive because we depend for our survival upon the complex network of society.

02:23:03.000 I think?

02:23:28.000 And I just want to make sure, if I can, if I can play some part in this, I just want to make sure that the descendants of those hunter-gatherers, 10,000 years in the future, are not remembering faintly and vaguely a great lost civilization,

02:23:45.000 a magical civilization which had the ability to...

02:23:48.000 Go to the moon, which had the ability to one person could speak to another person on the other side of the planet.

02:23:54.000 Magical, magical powers, which was destroyed because of its own arrogance and cruelty.

02:23:59.000 And that lost civilization, of course, would be us.

02:24:03.000 Well, one of the things that's been disturbing me as I got older is the idea of print about books.

02:24:11.000 It's sort of going away.

02:24:12.000 And everything is becoming digital.

02:24:14.000 And digital to the form that you can only read with an operating system and a computer and a CPU and all that jazz.

02:24:20.000 Without all that, it's nothing.

02:24:22.000 You look at a hard drive, there's nothing there.

02:24:24.000 It's just electrons.

02:24:25.000 Take away the software and it'll never be read again.

02:24:30.000 What evidence would there be a thousand years from now of us if something were to happen?

02:24:36.000 There might be some...

02:24:37.000 We'd know they were computer disks, but the descendants of that time would have no idea what they were.

02:24:42.000 And even if they did, they'd have no way of accessing it.

02:24:44.000 And a thousand years from now, they would deteriorate to nothing anyway.

02:24:47.000 To nothing.

02:24:47.000 All the plastic would be gone.

02:24:49.000 Everything would just be a complete mess.

02:24:51.000 Well, that's why I look at...

02:24:53.000 Megalithic stone architecture as being a textbook.

02:24:56.000 That's how you might preserve things.

02:24:58.000 And another way you might preserve things, if you developed a mythology around this whole scenario, and then you projected it onto the night sky, so that generations later they would tell these tales based upon the mythological figures juxtaposed on the night sky,

02:25:16.000 and there would be the story.

02:25:18.000 Because it's there.

02:25:20.000 The whole mythos, western mythology, has been juxtaposed onto the fixed stars.

02:25:25.000 And so that's one way, perhaps, of preserving information.

02:25:30.000 And the other way, I think, is massive stone architecture.

02:25:34.000 So it's clearly not an accident that the Great Pyramid encodes the dimensions of our planet.

02:25:39.000 Yes, correct.

02:25:40.000 You measure the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid and multiply it by 43,200.

02:25:47.000 And you get the equatorial circumference of the earth.

02:25:50.000 Why that number though?

02:25:51.000 Well that's the key thing and I'll come to that in a second if I may.

02:25:54.000 You take the height of the Great Pyramid, multiply that by 43,200 and you get the polar radius of the earth.

02:26:00.000 Actually Egyptologists know this but they say it's a complete coincidence because what's the significance of the number 43,200 but actually it's a highly significant number.

02:26:09.000 It's a number that is found embedded in mythology all around the world and it is a multiple of the number 72. It's actually 600 times 72 and 72 is the heartbeat of the processional cycle.

02:26:22.000 One degree of change every 72 years.

02:26:24.000 So what they've actually done is they've given us the dimensions of our planet On a scale defined by emotion of the planet itself.

02:26:34.000 And that in my view is incredibly clever way to pass information down to the future.

02:26:38.000 That way they could be sure that any astronomically literate society could work this out.

02:26:43.000 The information would be there.

02:26:45.000 So in all those dark ages when we had no knowledge that we even lived on a planet or what its dimensions were, those dimensions were encoded Into the enduring structure of the Great Pyramid, a monument, as the Arabs say, that time itself would fear.

02:27:00.000 The Great Pyramids themselves, the Great Pyramid of Giza in particular, is so spectacular that it almost makes you go, well, man, there had to be something going on.

02:27:11.000 We must be missing part of this picture, because you're talking about something that would be...

02:27:15.000 I've heard people say, we could reproduce it today.

02:27:17.000 Of course we could.

02:27:19.000 Of course we could.

02:27:20.000 Can you make a stone that's the size of one of the stones in the Great Pyramid?

02:27:24.000 Yes.

02:27:25.000 Well, then we can make the pyramid.

02:27:27.000 How long would it take?

02:27:28.000 How hard would it be?

02:27:30.000 And where would be the will?

02:27:31.000 And you'd have to be perfect.

02:27:32.000 In order to get it to line up at the top the way it sets right now, you can't be off by a fraction of an inch.

02:27:39.000 Otherwise you have a corkscrew instead of a pyramid.

02:27:42.000 That's the whole problem.

02:27:45.000 No, it's an amazing device, a multifunctional device in my view, encoding knowledge but also working on human consciousness.

02:27:54.000 I've had the privilege to be alone inside the Great Pyramid, not surrounded by hundreds of others.

02:28:00.000 And as the silence descends, this sense of intelligence seems to come out from the walls.

02:28:06.000 Something is speaking to you there.

02:28:08.000 And I think that partly what it was designed to do was to affect human consciousness.

02:28:12.000 And in a weird way, it's still doing so.

02:28:14.000 It's still beckoning people.

02:28:16.000 Majestic structure just being so magnificent and incredible that you just go, whoa!

02:28:21.000 But also the sensory deprivation element, you know, that you're inside the so-called king's chamber, which had nothing to do with any king.

02:28:28.000 This amazing granite geometrical room 300 feet above the ground in the heart of the Great Pyramid.

02:28:33.000 As that silence descends, you feel this monument begin to speak to you.

02:28:38.000 It's almost like it's shy.

02:28:40.000 Put 50 people in there and the dialogue goes away.

02:28:43.000 Be in there alone.

02:28:44.000 Listen to the silence and it starts to speak.

02:28:46.000 Wow.

02:28:47.000 Wow, that's amazing.

02:28:49.000 It's such a special thing that we have, this area where you can see these ancient structures and causes your mind to wander and think about these things and these possibilities.

02:29:01.000 And when you add that to all the information that you guys have accumulated over the course of your study and your research, it's a Just an amazing, amazing thing to consider.

02:29:10.000 I should mention another site, which we've not talked about today, which is Gunung Padang in Indonesia.

02:29:16.000 And again, I have a couple of chapters on this in the new book.

02:29:19.000 Gunung Padang is a man-made pyramid.

02:29:23.000 And it's been found about 30...

02:29:26.000 About three hours' drive west of Bandung on the island of Java.

02:29:30.000 And for a long time it was thought to be a relatively young megalithic site.

02:29:35.000 There is a megalithic site on top of what was thought to be a natural hill.

02:29:38.000 But now an amazing Indonesian geologist called Danny Hillman Natawajaja has been over it with his team.

02:29:46.000 They've done ground-penetrating radar and seismic tomography on the whole structure.

02:29:50.000 And they've also put drill cores down into it.

02:29:53.000 And they have pulled up...

02:29:54.000 Remnants of man-made material associated with dateable organic material that goes back 20,000 years.

02:30:01.000 It goes back right into the last ice age.

02:30:03.000 This is a 20,000-year-old pyramid that's sitting in Indonesia, and it's one of the most exciting breaking stories in archaeology.

02:30:10.000 And typically, because the discovery work has been done by a geologist, Indonesian archaeologists are wanting the whole work stopped.

02:30:19.000 So this is it right here?

02:30:21.000 That's not Gurung Padang.

02:30:22.000 No.

02:30:23.000 It says it is.

02:30:24.000 But those are Gurung Padang.

02:30:27.000 So, for example, third from the right.

02:30:30.000 Third from the left, I mean.

02:30:31.000 That one, yeah.

02:30:32.000 That's the known megalithic site on top of what is now understood to be a completely man-made site.

02:30:38.000 So this is accepted only by geologists, not by archaeologists?

02:30:43.000 Yeah.

02:30:44.000 The archaeologists say, oh, we know that site.

02:30:45.000 It's 2,500 years old.

02:30:47.000 There's nothing of interest there.

02:30:48.000 We would like the resources that are being spent on this to be spent on our projects instead.

02:30:52.000 And in fact, they've lobbied with the Indonesian government and the excavations have been temporarily halted.

02:30:57.000 I think that it will go ahead again.

02:30:59.000 What is the evidence that shows?

02:31:01.000 What's the geological evidence that shows that this is?

02:31:03.000 First of all, the ground penetrating radar, the picture of what is inside this, shows us that it is a man-made hill, not a natural hill.

02:31:12.000 Secondly, that it contains three large chambers within it.

02:31:17.000 One of them at least as large as the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid.

02:31:21.000 Huge cavities regular in shape which have not yet been excavated.

02:31:26.000 And thirdly, that the date of this site...

02:31:29.000 It puts us back to 20,000 years, right to the last glacial maximum, when Indonesia didn't look at all the way it looks today.

02:31:36.000 Indonesia, 20,000 years ago, was part of a giant continent that geologists called Sunda, Sundaland, the Sunda Shelf.

02:31:44.000 It wasn't a peninsular, the Malaysian peninsula and the thousand islands of Indonesia.

02:31:48.000 It was a massive land mass.

02:31:50.000 And that landmass was submerged predominantly between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago.

02:31:56.000 This site sits in an area of high land which was never submerged.

02:32:01.000 And it looks to me...

02:32:03.000 Again, I'm speculating because the excavation has been stopped, but it looks to me, as does Gobekli Tepe, like a time capsule, something that takes us back to that earlier period.

02:32:14.000 And in fact, when we're looking for a lost civilisation...

02:32:18.000 I think we should be looking all over the world.

02:32:20.000 Plato made it clear that Atlantis wasn't just the island.

02:32:24.000 It had projected its power all around the world.

02:32:27.000 Indonesia is a very fruitful area for further investigation and I did a huge research trip in Indonesia and I saw megaliths that are just unaccounted for.

02:32:36.000 The archaeology has never been done.

02:32:37.000 There's a giant megalithic culture in that island.

02:32:41.000 Very cool.

02:32:42.000 Some cultures on Indonesia are still making megaliths today.

02:32:45.000 They're still doing it.

02:32:47.000 It continues this ancient tradition.

02:32:49.000 So when we're looking at this, what are you guys seeing?

02:32:52.000 I'm seeing a hill.

02:32:53.000 I'm seeing a bunch of rocks.

02:32:55.000 Yeah.

02:32:55.000 That bunch of rocks is the known megalithic site, which has correctly been dated to 2,500 years ago.

02:33:21.000 What do you say megalithic site?

02:33:21.000 It's a very useful building material.

02:33:23.000 It can be broken up into blocks, and when you see them laid out horizontally like this, you know absolutely that human beings have been involved and that they have made this site.

02:33:32.000 But what's really interesting is what's underneath what we're seeing there, what's been revealed by the ground-penetrating radar and the drill cores.

02:33:40.000 That is really fascinating because that has not been taken into account by archaeology at all, and that's where we need to do this work.

02:33:48.000 If we're going to recover our lost past, Indonesia is one of the places we need to be doing it.

02:33:53.000 So to someone like me that's looking at this, I'm just seeing a bunch of stones.

02:33:56.000 Yeah, that's what you're seeing.

02:33:58.000 2,500-year-old site.

02:34:00.000 But it appears to be the case that that site was put there because there was an ancient memory that this was a sacred site.

02:34:09.000 The name Gunung Padang in the Indonesian language doesn't seem to mean very much.

02:34:15.000 It means mountain field.

02:34:21.000 Wow.

02:34:29.000 Wow.

02:34:39.000 So this sort of parallels some of the ideas about the old kingdom in Egypt and the ancient structures where the new structures are built on top of them.

02:34:46.000 And as they dig deeper into the sand, they find different construction methods that represent an older time.

02:34:52.000 Exactly.

02:34:54.000 So this is 20,000 years old underneath this?

02:34:58.000 Yeah, that's right.

02:34:59.000 Wow.

02:35:00.000 And is there any images that we could look at or is there anything that we could see other than this?

02:35:05.000 Well, I have a lot in the book.

02:35:06.000 What is that image above it?

02:35:08.000 That's an artist's rendition?

02:35:09.000 What it used to look like?

02:35:11.000 That's an absolute artist's rendition, which I don't value.

02:35:14.000 That almost takes the form of misinformation.

02:35:17.000 We need to be looking at the real thing.

02:35:19.000 Now there, that painting, you have your cursor just on it, just click on that.

02:35:24.000 That is an artist's interpretation of what Gunung Padang would have looked like in its original form before it became overgrown.

02:35:32.000 20,000 years ago.

02:35:32.000 But that is the mind blower then.

02:35:34.000 If this 20,000 years ago, if this actually existed, this gigantic megalithic structure that was created by human beings, advanced civilization beyond a shadow of a doubt 20,000 years ago, that's a deal breaker.

02:35:45.000 And in an area that was devastated by the global floods of 12,800 years ago and that became completely different from how it was before that.

02:35:55.000 What was the area that had that gigantic super volcano detonation 70,000 years ago?

02:36:02.000 Matoba.

02:36:02.000 That's another Indonesian story.

02:36:03.000 That is Indonesia.

02:36:05.000 And that is literally where...

02:36:08.000 A massive amount of the population of the Earth of human beings was wiped out 70,000 years ago.

02:36:13.000 It may have been that the human population went down to just 2,000 individuals.

02:36:17.000 Jesus Christ.

02:36:18.000 That's like a good comedy show for me, like a theater.

02:36:21.000 Imagine that.

02:36:23.000 Everyone in my show has to repopulate the fucking Earth.

02:36:27.000 Sometimes our species hangs by a thread.

02:36:31.000 Sometimes we hang by a thread.

02:36:32.000 That's crazy!

02:36:34.000 That is crazy!

02:36:35.000 The idea that just the Earth can have a hiccup.

02:36:39.000 And that's not even an asteroid.

02:36:41.000 That's the Earth itself.

02:36:42.000 It spits up, belches, destroys the environment to the point where it creates nuclear winter, kills all the crops, most of the animals die, and 2,000 people scratch and claw their way of the existence.

02:36:56.000 Wow.

02:36:57.000 And only 70,000 years ago, so 50,000 years before this.

02:37:00.000 So there's been a series of these.

02:37:04.000 Yes, there have been a series of these, and we as a species have kind of danced in and out of them.

02:37:10.000 And from time to time, they have radically changed our story.

02:37:13.000 Our hubris in creating hard drives, hard drives and flash drives and computers and phones and no one remembers anything.

02:37:21.000 I maybe know four phone numbers, you know?

02:37:25.000 Yeah, we don't use the power of memory anymore.

02:37:28.000 And we don't write anything down and anything that's going to survive any sort of a disaster.

02:37:34.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:37:36.000 That's where the, you know, systems like Freemasonry come in.

02:37:41.000 Because here you have a body of symbolism that's been handed down at least since the Middle Ages and you have a lot of You know, currently active Masons who, in order to become Master Masons, have to memorize a tremendous amount of information.

02:37:59.000 Most of them don't have a clue as to what it means, though.

02:38:02.000 Even though they're told right into ritual, if you want to understand this, you have to understand astronomy, first of all.

02:38:08.000 You have to understand geometry and a number of other things.

02:38:11.000 But a tremendous amount of memory work is involved.

02:38:16.000 And this is the ancient system.

02:38:18.000 The oral traditions involved memory on a massive scale.

02:38:23.000 Being able to recite verbatim things that might take you hours to recite.

02:38:29.000 And like you guys have just discussed, we're losing that ability.

02:38:34.000 And this is, you know, to me it's regrettable that Freemasonry has gotten such a bad rep with all of these silly conspiratorial things in the age of the internet.

02:38:45.000 I can't tell you how many times on Facebook or the internet somebody, and they express it as an accusation, Graham Hancock is a Freemason.

02:38:53.000 Yeah.

02:38:53.000 Well, first off, I'm not a Freemason.

02:38:56.000 I've never been a Freemason, and I never will be a Freemason because I'm not a joiner.

02:39:00.000 I don't join clubs.

02:39:01.000 My job is to write books, and if I join a particular club, that's going to compromise my ability to do that.

02:39:08.000 I have given lectures in Masonic lodges.

02:39:10.000 I've been invited to give lectures there, and I'm very interested to talk to Masons.

02:39:14.000 But, you know, I'm not a Mason myself.

02:39:17.000 And it is strange that there is this idea that Freemasonry is connected to some kind of global conspiracy.

02:39:23.000 I think it's much more complicated and much more interesting than that.

02:39:26.000 Well, it's an ancient, like, as you said, an ancient way of sort of storing and passing down knowledge and ideas.

02:39:35.000 I mean, I'm sure there's a bunch of wacky people that are involved in it, too.

02:39:38.000 Most of them are in it for the beer, frankly.

02:39:40.000 The beer?

02:39:40.000 Yeah.

02:39:41.000 But Freemasonry is largely a male drinking club.

02:39:43.000 Maybe I'm in, then.

02:39:44.000 Maybe I need to find these people.

02:39:47.000 Actually, maybe that's in the UK. In the US, there's no drinking in the lodges.

02:39:52.000 Not in the lodges.

02:39:53.000 Not in the lodge itself, but afterwards.

02:39:56.000 Okay, I'm out.

02:39:56.000 There's a lot of alcohol goes down.

02:39:58.000 I was in and now I'm out.

02:40:01.000 Well, yeah, drinking does mess with your memory, though, so I see your point.

02:40:05.000 But there is a tremendous body of symbolism in there, which I think is critical to understanding a lot of these ancient mysteries.

02:40:13.000 It has ancient origins.

02:40:14.000 Well, it's one of the things that's so confusing about our money, right?

02:40:16.000 And so conspiratorially...

02:40:19.000 Constantly debated about the the origins of the symbolism on our money you know the pyramid with the eyeball on top of it and there's so many theories as to what this means and that means and oh look at the way they structured from Washington DC where the Pentagon is and where all these different buildings are all this is all Mason stuff and they want to take over the world and yeah I don't know,

02:40:40.000 but it's fascinating.

02:40:41.000 Who knows really?

02:40:42.000 I think what's important about it is that it's a system of ideas that definitely has very ancient origins.

02:40:47.000 We're seeing a modern manifestation of it now, but it tracks back a long way into the past.

02:40:53.000 And this shows that ideas can be passed down below the radar and can survive and can continue.

02:41:00.000 Well, the eyeball on top of the pyramid, man, I would love to go back to the dude who created the dollar bill and go, what are you doing here?

02:41:06.000 Yeah, what the fuck is that, actually?

02:41:08.000 How come you just don't say one dollar, you know, and have the dude's face and we're good, right?

02:41:14.000 Why do you have to have a pyramid with an eyeball?

02:41:16.000 Like, what does that mean?

02:41:17.000 I wonder what it meant to them.

02:41:19.000 What is it supposed to symbolize?

02:41:20.000 Well, I think it means the same thing that it meant to the ancient Egyptians.

02:41:22.000 We find the eye of Horus or, you know...

02:41:27.000 Doesn't the eye of Horus represent the pineal gland?

02:41:30.000 That's a good argument.

02:41:31.000 It actually looks like the pineal gland.

02:41:33.000 From a side profile, it looks exactly like it.

02:41:36.000 It absolutely looks like it.

02:41:37.000 And we know that DMT was available in ancient Egypt.

02:41:41.000 The ancient Egyptian tree of life is Acacia nilotica, which is rich in DMT in its bark.

02:41:48.000 Well, that's also the tree that they're considering, that modern Jerusalem scholars have attached to Moses and the burning bush.

02:41:56.000 Exactly.

02:41:56.000 The burning bush being the source of divinity, the source of God, of divine knowledge, God being a burning bush, and that bush being the acacia tree.

02:42:05.000 The acacia tree being rich in DMT. I mean, it only makes sense if you try to break it down and translate it.

02:42:10.000 If anybody who's done DMT knows what a profound and life-changing experience it can be and how...

02:42:17.000 There is this feeling when you do it that you are connecting to some sort of divine entity.

02:42:22.000 In that, we have to look at this image.

02:42:25.000 Okay, sure.

02:42:25.000 What do you got?

02:42:26.000 Jamie, put it up there.

02:42:27.000 Well, it's a typical, you find this in all kinds of Masonic symbolism.

02:42:30.000 That's spooky.

02:42:31.000 It's a dude giving a check a haircut.

02:42:34.000 Well, you see, what you have here is a juxtaposition of different symbols, and they all have an interpretation, right?

02:42:42.000 You see the old man, Father Time, but he holds the sickle.

02:42:46.000 Father Time also has wings.

02:42:47.000 How do you get wings?

02:42:50.000 Well...

02:42:50.000 Time flies?

02:42:51.000 What?

02:42:52.000 Time flies?

02:42:53.000 Time flies, yeah.

02:42:54.000 How dare you.

02:42:55.000 You notice the hourglass, right?

02:43:00.000 Okay, the hourglass by the sickle, I see.

02:43:02.000 Okay, and the sickle is a symbol for the comet.

02:43:05.000 I'm going to go ahead and spill some...

02:43:07.000 A comet?

02:43:07.000 Yes, and I can show you how that works.

02:43:10.000 You know, the word comet comes from the Latin cometa, or cometa, which means what?

02:43:17.000 Long hair, right?

02:43:19.000 You've got the hair, Rattle.

02:43:20.000 Long hair star.

02:43:22.000 Rattle actually looks a bit like a comet.

02:43:25.000 So as you're looking at the star in the sky and you see the tail, they think of that as the hair of the comet?

02:43:30.000 Yes, exactly.

02:43:31.000 So what you have there is the long hair.

02:43:34.000 Right there, that's a signal.

02:43:36.000 Right there, that's a reference.

02:43:38.000 And I can show you a couple of other things.

02:43:39.000 Father Time is going bald.

02:43:41.000 What's all that about?

02:43:42.000 Male pattern boldness.

02:43:45.000 Making for it with his beard.

02:43:46.000 With his whiskers, yeah.

02:43:47.000 But you'll notice what she holds in her right hand, the sprig of acacia.

02:43:52.000 And so in the Masonic symbolism, acacia represents resurrection, represents restoration.

02:44:02.000 In the Masonic allegory, you have the death of the master builder and the raising of the master builder.

02:44:10.000 And the symbolism for this, whether it ultimately, I think, goes back to the death and resurrection of Osiris and the death and resurrection of all of these God figures in history, which could be taken as a metaphor really for The god standing in for the human species,

02:44:28.000 for human civilization.

02:44:30.000 And she's actually weeping.

02:44:32.000 She's holding in her left hand a cyborium, which was a symbol from alchemy.

02:44:37.000 And in the Masonic sense, it's in that container that she's holding that the alchemy takes place, which you might speculate is maybe the extraction of the DMT from the acacias.

02:44:49.000 That's what I was going to say.

02:44:50.000 It looks almost like one of those incense holders.

02:44:53.000 You know, you get an incense cone, you put it in, you put the lid on that, and the incense comes through that.

02:44:57.000 Right.

02:44:58.000 And she's looking at a book.

02:45:00.000 And she's looking at a book, right, and then the book is sitting on a broken column.

02:45:04.000 The broken column, actually, what that represents is very well depicted in this next image here.

02:45:13.000 Which was basically the destruction of the lost civilization.

02:45:17.000 And that's what she's weeping over.

02:45:18.000 She's holding the acacia because that's the symbol of resurrection.

02:45:23.000 How civilization is then renewed, phoenix-like, out of the ashes of the previous one.

02:45:28.000 Out of drugs.

02:45:31.000 Maybe assistant.

02:45:32.000 Maybe with some assistance there.

02:45:33.000 A little help.

02:45:34.000 A little help.

02:45:34.000 Yeah.

02:45:35.000 So you see there, and then when you go back to this, see it's all there.

02:45:38.000 And once you begin to understand the symbolism of this, you can begin to read it just like a book or a manuscript almost, you see.

02:45:47.000 And there we see the 19th century depiction of Of, you know, the destruction of civilization by...

02:45:54.000 By a comet.

02:45:55.000 By a comet, yes.

02:45:56.000 Wow.

02:45:57.000 Yes.

02:45:58.000 Absolutely fascinating.

02:46:00.000 Yeah, it's interesting stuff.

02:46:03.000 Boy, there's a lot of work in that.

02:46:06.000 You know, is this a universal description, like the way or interpretation of what you're saying?

02:46:11.000 Does everyone agree on this?

02:46:12.000 No.

02:46:13.000 No.

02:46:15.000 Basically, most of them will look at it and really not really understand it.

02:46:18.000 They'll go, oh, that's pretty.

02:46:19.000 But in many different cultures, the comet is the long-haired star.

02:46:22.000 And sometimes it's the cosmic serpent.

02:46:25.000 Sometimes it's a serpent or a snake.

02:46:27.000 Sometimes it's a serpent.

02:46:28.000 It looks like an old dude that's creeping on a young girl who's trying to read.

02:46:34.000 Like, you know, she's trying to read, he's trying to give her a back massage, he's kind of being creepy.

02:46:40.000 That's what it looks like.

02:46:41.000 That's kind of what it looks like, dude.

02:46:42.000 Well, here we have, this is a 19th century Masonic carpet.

02:46:46.000 Now you'll notice several things on here.

02:46:50.000 What do you see up on the right?

02:46:51.000 A comet.

02:46:52.000 A comet, yes.

02:46:53.000 And immediately to the left of the comet, you have a lunar crescent, and then you have the seven stars.

02:46:58.000 And what does the seven stars usually depict?

02:47:01.000 The Pleiades.

02:47:02.000 Pleiades, yeah.

02:47:02.000 Which are part of the Taurus constellation.

02:47:05.000 Exactly!

02:47:05.000 And if you superimpose the radiant of the torrid meteor shower, it almost bullseyes right on the Pleiades.

02:47:12.000 Right on the Pleiades.

02:47:12.000 And you find the Pleiades playing an important part in not only the Masonic ritual, but in many traditions.

02:47:19.000 Many, many traditions.

02:47:20.000 They're even clearly depicted in the Hall of Bulls in Lascaux in France 17,000 years ago, a depiction of the constellation of Taurus with the Pleiades clearly marked on the shoulder of the bull.

02:47:31.000 So anybody who argues that there was no ancient knowledge of the zodiacal constellations, go to Lascaux, and you'll realize there was.

02:47:39.000 And you'll notice down here, there's the ark, which of course is symbolizing the great flood.

02:47:44.000 And you've got a lot of things going on here.

02:47:47.000 You've got the coffin with the acacia growing out of it, which again is symbolizing this resurrection after the death.

02:47:54.000 So that one plant plays an important role over and over and over.

02:47:58.000 It's a very important role.

02:47:58.000 It can't be coincidental that that's a plant.

02:48:01.000 The role of DMT in human culture has been radically underestimated and misunderstood by our scholars.

02:48:08.000 Is there any depictions in the ancient world of utilization of DMT, of smoking it?

02:48:14.000 There's many depictions of the ancient Egyptian, an ancient Egyptian figure holding some kind of pipe.

02:48:21.000 And now that we know that Acacia nilotica is a DMT-rich tree, and that ancient Egyptians certainly had the chemical knowledge to extract the DMT from that bark, the very word chemistry actually comes from the name of ancient Egypt, which was Kemet.

02:48:36.000 The black land.

02:48:37.000 That's where we get the word chemistry from.

02:48:39.000 We can be pretty sure what they were smoking.

02:48:41.000 There is a particular scene, by the way, where we see another visionary agent, the Datura plant.

02:48:49.000 Rays in the form of Datura flowers are descending into the brow, into the third eye of the initiate in that image.

02:48:57.000 The imagery is all there.

02:48:59.000 You just have to dig it out and look for it.

02:49:01.000 In fact, look for it with eyes that are willing to see.

02:49:04.000 That's the crucial thing.

02:49:05.000 I've never seen the Egyptian hieroglyphs of them holding a pipe.

02:49:09.000 Oh yeah, there's many.

02:49:10.000 See if you can find any, Jamie.

02:49:12.000 Do you see any?

02:49:15.000 Wow.

02:49:15.000 So what are we looking at here, Randall?

02:49:17.000 Oh, just another version of these old Masonic carpets.

02:49:21.000 But the thing that you'd want to look at here...

02:49:24.000 The beehive thing in the lower left-hand corner there?

02:49:27.000 Yeah.

02:49:27.000 That seems to be over and over again.

02:49:29.000 Over and over again, yeah.

02:49:30.000 Why a beehive?

02:49:31.000 Is it a beehive?

02:49:32.000 It's a beehive, yeah.

02:49:33.000 It is.

02:49:34.000 So is it supposed to represent beekeeping and is it a form of...

02:49:39.000 I will...

02:49:40.000 Agriculture?

02:49:40.000 I'll fill you in on that someday.

02:49:42.000 Bees were a symbol of royalty in ancient Egypt.

02:49:44.000 Oh.

02:49:44.000 You find them all over the Temple of Karnak, for example.

02:49:47.000 In the Masonic context, it has a very interesting connotation, which would be probably beyond what we could get into today.

02:49:53.000 It's another show.

02:49:54.000 It's another show.

02:49:55.000 A whole other show on bees?

02:50:01.000 When you look at what's one of the main concerns that we have today is that our cell phone signals and a lot of the pesticides that we're using are killing off bees.

02:50:12.000 The cell phone signals are apparently like really confusing bees and messing them up and the Wi-Fi and all the waves, radio waves and different things in the atmosphere interfere with their communication.

02:50:22.000 But then on top of that, the pesticides we're putting on crops and all these things.

02:50:26.000 And then there's diseases that bees are getting.

02:50:28.000 We have a serious problem with the honeybee population.

02:50:31.000 I know, absolutely.

02:50:32.000 And to have that as a big part of their culture, to have bees as a big part of their culture.

02:50:37.000 Says something, yeah.

02:50:39.000 Well, you know, what you're superficially told in the Masonic ritual is that bees are a symbol of industry.

02:50:46.000 But when you begin to look into it, the beehive itself is interesting architecturally.

02:50:50.000 Right.

02:50:51.000 You know, because what it does, it has the maximum volume to weight ratio virtually of any structure.

02:50:57.000 But there's other considerations there as well, which again is another show.

02:51:02.000 But if you look carefully, right up in here, you'll notice there's a twin comet.

02:51:08.000 Twin stars.

02:51:09.000 You see the tails?

02:51:11.000 And you'll notice that, you know that comets, their tails are always pointing away from the sun.

02:51:16.000 They're not like trails, like the wake of a boat.

02:51:21.000 They're pointing away from the sun, you see?

02:51:24.000 And if you look at this, you see you've got the sun right here, and you've got these moving away.

02:51:29.000 The heart is a symbol for the Earth.

02:51:32.000 The sword is another symbol for the comet.

02:51:38.000 So all of this mystery surrounds us, and all of it takes us back to a time that we've forgotten.

02:51:47.000 And we need to know about that time.

02:51:50.000 We need to recover our memory.

02:51:53.000 The human species is in a kind of broken state right now.

02:51:57.000 Psychologically.

02:51:58.000 You can see it in the world.

02:51:59.000 There's this miasma of hatred and fear and suspicion that are just enveloping the whole world.

02:52:06.000 And we are being divided artificially from one another when truly we are all brothers and sisters.

02:52:11.000 And we need to recover that knowledge if we're to move forward to the future.

02:52:16.000 And on that note, I also want to thank you for another thing, Joe, which is for smoking me up last September.

02:52:23.000 LAUGHTER Reintroducing marijuana into your life?

02:52:26.000 Yeah, I had three years of abstinence from marijuana, and that abstinence ended when we sat down for our last chats, September 2014. Well, you seem so healthy.

02:52:37.000 I don't think pot's the problem.

02:52:39.000 No, it's not the problem.

02:52:40.000 What's happened is I've completely changed my relationship to that beautiful and magical herb.

02:52:44.000 It's not a dependent relationship anymore.

02:52:47.000 It's not an obsessional relationship.

02:52:49.000 If I have it, I enjoy it.

02:52:50.000 If I don't have it, I enjoy my life anyway.

02:52:52.000 That's beautiful.

02:52:53.000 Yeah.

02:52:53.000 I have a friend who's a drug counselor, and last night he was telling me a story.

02:52:57.000 He's also a comedian.

02:52:58.000 And last night he was telling me a story.

02:53:00.000 Court McGowan, great guy.

02:53:01.000 And he was telling me a story about this kid that he's trying to help.

02:53:06.000 He said, I had never met a marijuana addict before.

02:53:10.000 And he met this kid, and this kid was smoking just massive, massive amounts of marijuana.

02:53:14.000 He was trying to help him.

02:53:15.000 This clinic.

02:53:16.000 And he realized along the way, it has nothing to do with the marijuana.

02:53:20.000 He's got some crazy psychological issue that's going on, and the marijuana just happens to be the thing he's using to try to fill up...

02:53:29.000 To medicate them.

02:53:29.000 Yeah, it's not that he has this physical addiction that's impossible to...

02:53:34.000 There is no physical addiction.

02:53:35.000 No.

02:53:36.000 If the marijuana wasn't there, he'd find something else.

02:53:38.000 Yes, that's what it is.

02:53:39.000 And then when he dug deep into it, this poor kid has just a devastating childhood, and there's all sorts of issues psychologically.

02:53:46.000 Always the case with addiction.

02:53:47.000 Yes.

02:53:47.000 It's the pain in the individual that's the source of it, not the substance that's being...

02:53:52.000 Well, we can all...

02:53:53.000 I think we can all relate to a certain amount of madness, and I know I certainly can, because I think we're all capable of going down spirals and paths, and then, you know, the concept of hitting rock bottom.

02:54:05.000 Like, sometimes you have to, like...

02:54:06.000 Hit something where you can't continue your momentum, and you must regroup.

02:54:10.000 And in that regrouping, you reassess or reevaluate.

02:54:13.000 And it's one of the reasons why I'm so addicted to sensory deprivation tanks, because that's my regrouping.

02:54:20.000 It's an amazing place to regroup, and thank you for introducing me to that as well.

02:54:26.000 I am so grateful that there's people out there that have continued that tradition of building those things from the Samadhi tanks from the early 60s, from John Lilly to today, Crash and the Float Lab and the Zero Gravity in Austin.

02:54:39.000 I mean, they've done some amazing work in making sure these things are up-to-date and the most modern technology as far as filtration systems and insulation.

02:54:50.000 Now they're magical.

02:54:52.000 Absolutely.

02:54:53.000 You went to I went to crash, right?

02:54:54.000 I went to crash, and I had a fantastic, fantastic experience there.

02:54:58.000 And I have to say, I'm really thinking about putting one of those in my house.

02:55:01.000 Do it!

02:55:01.000 Everybody should, if you, I mean, God, man, you know, I think it's so important.

02:55:04.000 And as you say, with some edibles, that's the way to enjoy the experience to the maximum, to get the maximum benefit out of the experience.

02:55:13.000 It's intensely, intensely psychedelic with edibles.

02:55:17.000 Exactly.

02:55:18.000 I'm really encouraged by what's happening in America, that we are seeing the legalization of cannabis, that the American people, state by state, are just putting their finger up to the federal authority and saying, we are adults.

02:55:30.000 We have a right to decide what we do with our own bodies and our own consciousness.

02:55:34.000 And there is that air of freedom now in Washington state, in Oregon.

02:55:39.000 We're good to go.

02:55:46.000 We're good to go.

02:56:07.000 What they had in terms of their expectations for how much money they were going to make out of this in terms of tax revenue, it's gone through the roof.

02:56:14.000 This is the first time ever they make more money from taxes and marijuana than alcohol, which is fucking crazy.

02:56:21.000 If you look around Colorado, you see how many bars there are, how many liquor stores, how many restaurants are serving booze.

02:56:27.000 They make more money in taxes from marijuana than they do from all of that.

02:56:30.000 Let's face it.

02:56:31.000 Marijuana is a far superior substance to alcohol.

02:56:33.000 But they're still selling booze.

02:56:35.000 It's not hurting the booze business.

02:56:36.000 It's not hurting the booze business.

02:56:37.000 Violent crime is down.

02:56:38.000 Drunk driving is to the lowest level it's been in decades.

02:56:41.000 Amazing.

02:56:42.000 I mean, the whole thing is incredible.

02:56:43.000 It's a very positive story.

02:56:45.000 Real estate's gone up.

02:56:46.000 Everything's incredible.

02:56:46.000 And what Colorado is proving to the world is that the emperor of the war on drugs wears no clothes.

02:56:53.000 The war on drugs is bullshit from beginning to end, and it's a grotesque abuse of the right of adults to make decisions about their own bodies and their own consciousness.

02:57:02.000 So right on with Colorado and the American people who are making this happen.

02:57:07.000 Only in America could this breakthrough take place.

02:57:09.000 It's true that America as a state entity has been a dark force behind the war on drugs, but the American people state by state are unraveling.

02:57:18.000 That horror and replacing it with something new.

02:57:20.000 This could never happen in Britain.

02:57:22.000 I mean, we have counties in Britain like Yorkshire or Northumberland.

02:57:26.000 I can't envision a situation ever where Yorkshire would make marijuana legal when London says no.

02:57:33.000 But in America, you can do it.

02:57:34.000 And this is going to change the world.

02:57:36.000 It's not because of marijuana itself.

02:57:39.000 That's not the point.

02:57:39.000 It's not about getting high.

02:57:41.000 It's about respecting the right of adults to make decisions about their own bodies, their own health, and their own consciousness.

02:57:47.000 That is a fundamental human right.

02:57:49.000 And we're beginning to realize that that's exactly what's been taken away from us by the war on drugs.

02:57:53.000 I think it's also about making decisions based on data.

02:57:55.000 And I think in a way that parallels what you guys are up to.

02:57:58.000 Because I think people are understanding now that we've been sold a bill of goods by these so-called experts about marijuana.

02:58:05.000 Lies.

02:58:05.000 They've sold us so many lies.

02:58:07.000 Nonsense.

02:58:07.000 And not only that, the politicians have hired experts to review the data and then buried it when it didn't meet their expectations.

02:58:15.000 Exactly.

02:58:16.000 Well, I have to confess that all of this with me started back in the old days when I was camping in these canyon lands in the western states and altering my consciousness and looking at the landscape and going, something is going on here.

02:58:30.000 There's a story here that is...

02:58:34.000 Wanting to come out and, you know, I think that we have the potential literally to almost time travel with some of these substances and peer into the past and see it in ways that we would have never seen otherwise.

02:58:49.000 And not literally, but like get a sense in your mind, a new perspective, a fresh view.

02:58:54.000 You were talking about it the last time you were here, that you were on acid, right?

02:58:58.000 Is that what it was?

02:58:59.000 Acid and peyote mostly.

02:59:01.000 A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

02:59:04.000 But yeah, spending a lot of time out hiking and camping from Minnesota to the Pacific Ocean and all those northwestern states, I spent months out there just Hanging in the landscape, you know, living in tents up on mountaintops and thinking about what was I seeing,

02:59:24.000 you know.

02:59:25.000 And that's really where it started for me.

02:59:28.000 And I think that combining, combining, you know, this immersion into the landscape, you're talking about the sensory deprivation, which is...

02:59:36.000 A way to powerfully go in, at the same time you can have the counterpart of that which is powerfully going out and seeing the night sky in this altered state, seeing the landscapes around you and realizing that a hill isn't just a hill.

02:59:50.000 There's a story there.

02:59:52.000 There's some process that we have to come to reckon with in order to understand this planet we're living on.

02:59:59.000 I think there's an interesting point here.

03:00:13.000 I think?

03:00:22.000 What the psychedelics are, are nature's way of speaking to us.

03:00:27.000 When we've closed our minds and shut ourselves down, when we've taken the soul out of the universe and just turned it into a huge machine, the psychedelics are coming back and saying, hang on, you monkeys don't know everything.

03:00:42.000 Listen to us.

03:00:43.000 We've got something to teach.

03:00:44.000 And with that, we just ran through three hours.

03:00:46.000 Yeah.

03:00:47.000 That's it?

03:00:48.000 How crazy is that?

03:00:49.000 That was three hours.

03:00:50.000 It seems like it was 20 minutes.

03:00:51.000 It was probably more than three hours, right?

03:00:52.000 We over time?

03:00:53.000 We're over.

03:00:55.000 Listen, thank you so much.

03:00:56.000 Graham Hancock, Magicians of the Gods.

03:00:58.000 You can get it right now on Amazon.

03:00:59.000 What is your website again?

03:01:00.000 GrahamHancock.com.

03:01:01.000 GrahamHancock.com.

03:01:03.000 Sacred Geometry International.

03:01:05.000 Sacred Geometry INT, I believe, is your Twitter handle.

03:01:08.000 Is that what it is?

03:01:09.000 I think that's right.

03:01:10.000 I'll check right now, real quick.

03:01:12.000 Yes, Sacred Geometry.

03:01:13.000 Sacred Geo.

03:01:14.000 Sacred Geo INT. Okay.

03:01:16.000 Randall, thank you so much.

03:01:17.000 Mine has got an annoying double underscore between the Graham and the Hancock.

03:01:21.000 Well, you can find it, folks, if you go to my Twitter page.

03:01:24.000 It'll be on my Twitter page.

03:01:26.000 You can find both of their Twitter handles on the post that we made about this.

03:01:31.000 Let's do this again.

03:01:31.000 Can we do this again?

03:01:32.000 Absolutely.

03:01:32.000 I'm up for it.

03:01:33.000 Let's do it again in a couple months.

03:01:34.000 Fantastic.

03:01:35.000 All right, ladies and gentlemen.

03:01:36.000 Thank you very much.

03:01:37.000 See you soon.

03:01:38.000 Joe, I would like to get you out.

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 19, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #725 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

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