The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #743

00:00:00.000 Was the correct pronunciation of your last name?

00:00:02.000 Demers?

00:00:02.000 Demers.

00:00:03.000 Demers.

00:00:03.000 Demers works.

00:00:08.000 Yes!

00:00:09.000 And we're live.

00:00:09.000 Second podcast of 2016, Phil.

00:00:12.000 How do you feel about that?

00:00:13.000 I'm ecstatic, Joe.

00:00:14.000 I can't even begin to thank you for this.

00:00:16.000 Honestly, if it wasn't for my having been on this podcast two years ago and returning now in a very timely manner, I think I'd be a fish dead out of water.

00:00:25.000 What do you mean?

00:00:26.000 Well, in terms of the cause that I sort of represent and all the multiple lawsuits that are levied against all the animal activists that I'm amongst.

00:00:35.000 Well, let's explain to everybody who is unfamiliar.

00:00:38.000 You had a lawsuit with Marine World.

00:00:41.000 You used to work for Marine World.

00:00:42.000 Marine Land.

00:00:43.000 Marine Land, excuse me, which is like SeaWorld for Canada.

00:00:46.000 Something like that.

00:00:47.000 A type of thing.

00:00:48.000 A type of SeaWorld, right?

00:00:49.000 SeaWorld's a day at the spa for animals compared to Marine Land.

00:00:53.000 Really?

00:00:54.000 Oh, yeah.

00:00:54.000 It's that much worse?

00:00:56.000 Significantly worse.

00:00:58.000 So you worked for them.

00:01:01.000 You were released from your job, fired as it were.

00:01:05.000 I quit voluntarily.

00:01:07.000 I quit amidst a...

00:01:09.000 Did they say you were fired?

00:01:10.000 No, no.

00:01:11.000 No, everybody admits you were quit.

00:01:12.000 I never gave them the opportunity to fire me.

00:01:14.000 I made the first move.

00:01:15.000 They were going to fire you?

00:01:16.000 I think that's the inclination I had at the time.

00:01:19.000 But you were a trainer, and I think you opened up a lot of people's eyes to it.

00:01:23.000 This was actually pre-Blackfish, right?

00:01:26.000 This was pre-Blackfish.

00:01:27.000 Yeah.

00:01:28.000 I ate pot candy and was in Hawaii once, like many years ago.

00:01:37.000 And I had an experience with dolphins where these dolphins were...

00:01:42.000 We were fishing and these dolphins were coming by the boat and they were jumping and playing with us.

00:01:46.000 And I remember thinking, they might as well be people.

00:01:51.000 They might as well be water people or something.

00:01:53.000 There's something weird about this.

00:01:56.000 They're enjoying playing with us.

00:01:57.000 As we yell to them, they do more stuff.

00:02:00.000 They came by and they were jumping and they were clearly looking at us when they jumped through the water.

00:02:07.000 I'd never been to SeaWorld before because I had seen some documentaries on dolphins and I knew they were really smart.

00:02:12.000 I'd seen some documentaries on orcas as well.

00:02:14.000 It just always seemed really fucked up to me that they make them stay in these swimming pools.

00:02:19.000 But when you came on the podcast Two years ago and illuminated what it's like behind the scenes, at least at Marine Land.

00:02:27.000 It was horrific, man.

00:02:28.000 And I got a lot of tweets from people and Facebook messages that said they would never go to SeaWorld or Marine Land again.

00:02:36.000 And then they realized really what it was.

00:02:38.000 Then the documentary Blackfish came out and the whole world...

00:02:43.000 I was sort of forced to take a look at this and understand that these animals are super intelligent.

00:02:50.000 Just because they can't manipulate things, just because they can't pick things up and they can't write their name, they can't send you an email.

00:02:56.000 In their environment, that's unnecessary.

00:02:59.000 In their environment, in the natural world, they're moving through 3D space in the water, they have free food and fish, they have a huge community of Fellow orcas and fellow dolphins, and they communicate with each other through a very complex language that we barely understand.

00:03:15.000 They have a fucking language.

00:03:17.000 Not like monkeys go, ooh, ooh, and the other monkey goes, ah, ah, like kind of a language.

00:03:23.000 No, they have a complex language with dialects.

00:03:25.000 They might as well be water people.

00:03:27.000 They've already evolved to be the top predator of the sea, so there's no need for them to learn to email.

00:03:33.000 They have no use for it.

00:03:34.000 So they're already the absolute top predators of the sea.

00:03:38.000 Yeah, that's a way to look at it, right?

00:03:39.000 Like, we have this kind of view of our position being the top, I mean, we're kind of the top predator, but we're only the top predator because of our minds, because we figured out how to manipulate things.

00:03:51.000 They have huge minds, they have incredible brains, and then they're also, they eat everything they want.

00:03:57.000 They don't need to evolve any further.

00:04:00.000 They've sort of mastered their domain.

00:04:02.000 And they're amazingly adaptable.

00:04:04.000 They evolve in every which capacity to be able to adjust to the ever-changing world.

00:04:11.000 Killer Whales Now, I recently watched a documentary, and on account of the melting ice in the Arctic in the summer, the ice flows are receding.

00:04:21.000 They're becoming smaller and smaller every year.

00:04:23.000 So now orcas are now going into territories that they'd never had before.

00:04:26.000 And the Inuit have documented that they've seen orcas actually hunt bow whales, which are 50 ton larger than an orca itself.

00:04:34.000 And what they do is they...

00:04:36.000 They isolate the animal, they bite their fins, they hold them underwater while another orca goes on top of their blowhole to try to drown it.

00:04:43.000 I mean, this is amazing adapting.

00:04:45.000 Wow.

00:04:45.000 Yeah.

00:04:46.000 Jesus Christ.

00:04:47.000 Well, that's where they got their name, killer whales, from killing whales.

00:04:51.000 Exactly.

00:04:51.000 A lot of people think they're a type of whale.

00:04:53.000 They're actually a cousin to a dolphin.

00:04:55.000 That's right.

00:04:55.000 They're dolphins.

00:04:56.000 They're just the largest dolphin in the dolphin family.

00:04:58.000 They eat dolphins too, which is kind of fucked up.

00:05:02.000 Killer whales...

00:05:03.000 Humans eat monkeys.

00:05:05.000 Unbeknownst to most, killer whales are...

00:05:07.000 And you have to sort of disassociate things.

00:05:11.000 You have to sort of draw a line between killer whales being cute and loving and just how, if you want to use the word sadistic, they are.

00:05:18.000 They are evil, evil, evil in the way that they hunt and kill.

00:05:22.000 They are merciless, you know?

00:05:27.000 Yeah.

00:05:41.000 That's how, you know, we kind of feel bad.

00:05:44.000 The way we treat each other, we want to kind of treat other animals that way.

00:05:48.000 Which is why, you know, animal rights organizations and all these people that really, really love and care about animals, that's where they sort of come under fire.

00:05:58.000 Because they want people to treat animals different than animals treat animals.

00:06:02.000 So animals are fucking mean as shit to each other.

00:06:05.000 And that's just the way of the world.

00:06:06.000 One of the videos that stood out for me, and actually was sort of a wake-up call for me, was just how nasty nature is.

00:06:14.000 And it was a video that you actually shared, and it was of a bear taking down a deer.

00:06:18.000 That dude's yard?

00:06:19.000 Yeah, and that guy's backyard.

00:06:20.000 I mean, that's tough to watch, right?

00:06:22.000 It is.

00:06:23.000 It was screaming.

00:06:24.000 The deer was screaming.

00:06:26.000 The bear was just eating it, like, ferociously.

00:06:28.000 Well, that's the thing about bears as opposed to cats.

00:06:31.000 When a cat gets a deer, they go right for the neck and they kill it pretty quick.

00:06:35.000 Because that's all they do.

00:06:37.000 But bears do a lot of things.

00:06:38.000 They eat berries and roots and plants.

00:06:42.000 So they don't always kill things.

00:06:44.000 Matter of fact, they probably eat more plant matter than they do animal matter.

00:06:49.000 So when they kill things, they basically just hold these things down and start eating.

00:06:54.000 It's a question of opportunity, I guess, if it arises.

00:06:56.000 They're hungry.

00:06:58.000 Well, they eat a lot of fawns.

00:06:59.000 That's a big issue in Canada, where you're from, sir.

00:07:02.000 That's right.

00:07:03.000 They eat a lot of moose, like moose calves and deer fawns.

00:07:08.000 They eat them as they're coming out.

00:07:10.000 They actually smell the placenta and all the stuff that surrounds the baby.

00:07:17.000 And they'll find these moose as they're giving birth and just literally pull them right out of their body.

00:07:24.000 Fucked up.

00:07:25.000 You know, I'm an animal rights activist by, I suppose that's the label that I've been given, but I should mention that there are a lot of animal rights activists that owe you a great deal of credit for your sort of, I want to use your sort of advocacy,

00:07:43.000 despite the fact that there are There's a stark line between those who believe in not killing animals and everything else, but then there are also other people that can appreciate how nature operates, predator-prey relationship, and can also appreciate that, at least in what you've said before.

00:08:02.000 You yourself are opposed to the captivity of animals.

00:08:05.000 I mean, the last time we were on, you mentioned of going to a zoo and maybe eating a pot cookie and having a look at the monkeys and being like, you know, you're throwing bows through animals.

00:08:14.000 And I very much respect the fact that the way that you hunt and the way that you eat is the kill what you eat movement or whatever you want to call it.

00:08:21.000 And as an animal rights activist, I can say that that is a far more responsible way than, you know, I want to take a look at the factory farming things and whatnot.

00:08:28.000 But I forget shit, I forget the point I was making.

00:08:32.000 Well, I know what you're saying, that it sort of almost would seem like I'd be against them in some sort of a way because I eat meat.

00:08:39.000 But the reality is a lot of animal rights activists have fucking cats, man.

00:08:43.000 And they feed their cats cat food.

00:08:45.000 And guess what?

00:08:46.000 That shit ain't growing on a cat food tree.

00:08:48.000 You know, there's a reality to the world, and cats are brutal.

00:08:52.000 Cats are vicious little fuckers, and they need protein.

00:08:55.000 And if you have a cat, and I have two of them, I love them.

00:08:57.000 They're awesome.

00:08:57.000 They come cuddle with me while I'm watching TV. On any given day, I've got five cats, three that I claim as my own, two that just sort of come and go at will.

00:09:06.000 Wildcats?

00:09:06.000 Well, one is, one neighbor sort of, I would say that he sort of neglected it in terms of how you care for a domestic cat.

00:09:13.000 And when he moved away, he said, look, you know, you take care of this cat, which I did.

00:09:18.000 On my second level balcony, I built this thing I called the Taj Mahkitty.

00:09:21.000 It was this place where the cat could come live in the winter, right?

00:09:24.000 And it's real cold.

00:09:25.000 And so he said, you know, do you want to keep this cat?

00:09:27.000 Sure.

00:09:27.000 So I got it fixed and whatnot.

00:09:29.000 And he likes to show his gratitude by bringing us...

00:09:33.000 Baby rabbits.

00:09:33.000 If you've ever seen a baby rabbit, the cutest thing in the world.

00:09:36.000 And he maliciously licks them down to the point of just chewing them until the sound stops and leaving them as gifts.

00:09:44.000 And you can't help but love Eugene.

00:09:46.000 I mean, Eugene is an amazing and loving cat.

00:09:49.000 He's also just a cold-blooded killer.

00:09:52.000 That's why they're alive.

00:09:54.000 We don't want to think about it that way, but animals today that are alive today in 2016 are alive because their ancestors, especially predators like cats, were fucking vicious.

00:10:05.000 They were vicious and ruthless and they made sure they killed everything they could because if you don't kill that little baby rabbit, there might not be anything left for you to eat that day and you might starve or you might be too weak to get away from something that wants to kill you.

00:10:20.000 Exactly.

00:10:20.000 You might be too weak to get away from a wolf or you might be, you know...

00:10:24.000 We have a beautiful situation.

00:10:26.000 We go to the store, we buy food that someone else killed for us, and we can get it every time.

00:10:31.000 It's not like a rare thing, like you have to wait for it, or you have to put in a lot of effort to get it.

00:10:36.000 Throughout human history, it's always been difficult to acquire food, until recently.

00:10:41.000 Recently, it's become so ridiculous, you don't even have to get out of your fucking car to eat.

00:10:47.000 You literally pull into a fucking drive-thru.

00:10:50.000 You hand these people paper.

00:10:52.000 Within seconds, they hand you already cooked meat in a sandwich.

00:10:57.000 A ground beef sandwich.

00:10:59.000 You put it on your seat.

00:11:00.000 They give you a glass of liquid sweet shit.

00:11:04.000 You stick that in your little cup holder and you're eating.

00:11:07.000 That's insane!

00:11:08.000 Never before in human history has that happened.

00:11:11.000 And that lack of effort and lack of connection has bred a lot of people that have a really distorted understanding of life itself.

00:11:19.000 A really distorted understanding of what it takes to make a ground beef sandwich.

00:11:25.000 You know, if you want to raise a cow yourself and go through that whole thing, I have a few friends that do it.

00:11:31.000 I have my good friend Doug in Wisconsin.

00:11:34.000 He grows his own cows.

00:11:35.000 They're all grass-fed, and he gave me some meat from it last time I was there.

00:11:40.000 And he does it all himself.

00:11:42.000 He shoots them himself.

00:11:44.000 I mean, he does the whole deed.

00:11:45.000 He butchers them, he hangs them, the whole deed.

00:11:48.000 And that guy understands what it takes to make a ground beef sandwich.

00:11:53.000 But most of us is pulling to that drive-thru.

00:11:55.000 I think it's a privileged perspective.

00:11:56.000 It's people that have never had to do anything like that.

00:11:59.000 Yeah.

00:11:59.000 Put any effort in raising their food.

00:12:01.000 I have friends that are farmers and it's the same story.

00:12:03.000 And they love and respect their animals through and through.

00:12:05.000 But at the end of the day, it becomes a stake.

00:12:06.000 It sounds like a contradiction, right?

00:12:08.000 You know, loving your animal but killing it.

00:12:12.000 I think in defense of anyone that likes to call out hypocrisy is that you have to take a look at the fact that there's hypocrisy in absolutely everything you do.

00:12:19.000 I mean, the fact alone that...

00:12:20.000 And I'm going to use vegans as an example.

00:12:22.000 If you're going to look at what...

00:12:24.000 What an abomination of nature is really the functions of society as a whole.

00:12:27.000 A city, a physical city is an abomination of nature.

00:12:32.000 Yeah.

00:12:33.000 So if you're a vegan and you're, for instance, renting an apartment and driving a car, immediately there's hypocrisy in that.

00:12:38.000 And this is not me calling out the idea of living a compassionate life or propagating that.

00:12:42.000 I think that's fine.

00:12:43.000 I think it's great.

00:12:43.000 I'd encourage that.

00:12:44.000 I think the world needs more compassion.

00:12:46.000 But it's the judgment, right?

00:12:48.000 It's the judgment.

00:12:49.000 I think when you start looking from the perspective of someone who's privileged, then...

00:12:54.000 Yeah.

00:12:55.000 The judgment.

00:12:56.000 But, I mean, the judgment comes, I think, a lot of it comes from a real place.

00:12:59.000 People are like, fuck this factory farming shit.

00:13:02.000 Fuck people who eat meat.

00:13:03.000 You know, they get angry.

00:13:04.000 You know, they love animals.

00:13:06.000 But it's just so hilarious when you have a cat...

00:13:09.000 That's feasting on a multitude of animals that have been...

00:13:12.000 Yeah, raised in captivity.

00:13:14.000 All of them.

00:13:15.000 I mean, the way they raise animals, when you're buying cat food...

00:13:19.000 Man, you're buying the worst treated animals ever.

00:13:24.000 I've never even heard of ethically sourced cat food.

00:13:27.000 I'm sure it exists.

00:13:28.000 I'm sure I haven't heard about it.

00:13:29.000 But even ethically sourced cat food, whatever, man.

00:13:32.000 It's murder.

00:13:33.000 If you feed your cats plants, and there are people who do that, they have organ failure.

00:13:37.000 They fucking get heart attacks.

00:13:39.000 They die.

00:13:39.000 They can't live.

00:13:41.000 But there's a lot of people.

00:13:42.000 I found these people because...

00:13:45.000 I found these people because they're hating on me after my last Comedy Central special where I did this bit about vegans.

00:13:51.000 So whenever people get really mad at me, I like to go to their Twitter page and read what they're into.

00:13:56.000 So I go to these fucking people's Twitter page and I found out that there's a whole vegan cat forum.

00:14:02.000 Vegan cat owners and, you know, hashtag cruelty free and these fuckers, they feed their cats plants and they don't live long.

00:14:11.000 They die.

00:14:13.000 I'd like to have a conversation with those cats.

00:14:14.000 I mean, it would be nice if we could bridge that language barrier.

00:14:17.000 Oh yeah, if you rolled a mouse by one of those cats, they would dive on it like a man in the ocean that just finally got to land.

00:14:25.000 Yeah, it's a feast.

00:14:27.000 Yeah, like if you just...

00:14:29.000 You barely made it to shore.

00:14:30.000 That feeling that you get when you get to land.

00:14:34.000 I think there's a line.

00:14:36.000 There's a line in all advocacy where how far are you willing to go?

00:14:40.000 Really, it's a question of how willing are you to sacrifice?

00:14:43.000 I lived in South Korea for a while, and this is a country that was leveled back in the mid-50s.

00:14:48.000 They had to rebuild from essentially nothing.

00:14:50.000 I saw pig heads being served up on the side of roads, but I can appreciate that these people had suffered so much so that they had to eat everything that was available to them.

00:15:00.000 I don't want to sit here and defend that South Koreans are eating dogs and whatnot.

00:15:04.000 It's symbolic of their history and whatnot, but if you've got nothing left to eat, I'd like to see how quickly your ethics change, right?

00:15:13.000 If you are truly suffering.

00:15:15.000 And a dog...

00:15:16.000 I love dogs.

00:15:18.000 I have two dogs.

00:15:18.000 But let's be honest about what a dog is.

00:15:20.000 A dog is a little captive pet.

00:15:23.000 They're your buddies because you feed them and you take care of them and you have this relationship with them and you have this agreement with them.

00:15:28.000 But if you ran into a wild dog...

00:15:30.000 There was a couple...

00:15:32.000 An elderly couple, I want to say like maybe seven or eight years ago, that was killed by a pack of wild dogs in Georgia.

00:15:38.000 Georgia, United States, Atlanta.

00:15:41.000 You know, that area.

00:15:42.000 Of course.

00:15:42.000 Like, what the fuck, man?

00:15:44.000 Like, dogs will fucking kill you if they don't have any food.

00:15:47.000 If you think that they're like Old Yeller or Lassie or some...

00:15:53.000 No.

00:15:53.000 What they are is exactly how you treat them from birth.

00:15:57.000 If you get a puppy, like my dog Johnny.

00:16:00.000 I have a dog named Johnny Cash.

00:16:01.000 He's the sweetest dog of all time.

00:16:03.000 He is so nice.

00:16:05.000 He's just so gentle.

00:16:06.000 He's a Mastiff.

00:16:07.000 And he's just so friendly.

00:16:09.000 Anybody that comes over, I never worry about him barking at them.

00:16:12.000 If he barks, it's like, hey man, come play with me.

00:16:15.000 And when you go up to him, you're like, what's up, dude?

00:16:17.000 And he's always super happy and super sweet.

00:16:19.000 But it's because I've had him from the time he was a baby.

00:16:22.000 And the guy who bred him, he's always been really ethical about how he breeds these dogs.

00:16:29.000 And they're very smart and kind.

00:16:32.000 But it's because of the relationship that I had with him.

00:16:34.000 He knows I'm the daddy.

00:16:35.000 I give him the food.

00:16:36.000 I give him the love.

00:16:37.000 You know, it's all this agreement.

00:16:39.000 It's part of their evolution.

00:16:40.000 I mean, they're physically cute on account of the fact that we selectively bred them through and through.

00:16:44.000 And they themselves learned that, hey, if I'm like really docile and cute and look with these big puppy dog's eyes, I get more food and I get a better place to live and get a warmer shelter.

00:16:52.000 And I'm not likely to wind up in the backyard in winter, you know?

00:16:55.000 Well, there was actually a Radiolab podcast that was absolutely fascinating on raising foxes, and they raised foxes.

00:17:04.000 Yeah, you say foxes, right?

00:17:06.000 It's not like deer.

00:17:08.000 I think so, right?

00:17:09.000 I'm not going to correct you.

00:17:10.000 Seems goofy.

00:17:12.000 Seems like fishes.

00:17:13.000 Foxes.

00:17:14.000 That's a word.

00:17:15.000 Fishes is an acceptable word, if I'm not mistaken.

00:17:17.000 Yeah, but you can use the word fishes.

00:17:18.000 Really?

00:17:19.000 I thought there was a large debate about this, and this was figured out back in the mid-90s.

00:17:21.000 I swear this is part of my...

00:17:23.000 My recollection.

00:17:24.000 You might be right.

00:17:24.000 I don't know.

00:17:26.000 But anyway, the radio lab about foxes, they selectively bred foxes based on their behavior, based on whether or not they were aggressive, and the ones that were aggressive they killed, and the ones that reacted a certain way.

00:17:36.000 I don't remember the actual parameters that they set, but...

00:17:40.000 Ultimately, what it was, and if you're into this, Google it, because I don't remember the name of the episode, but it was amazing.

00:17:47.000 Within a few generations, like within less than 10 years, they had completely changed what these foxes looked like.

00:17:55.000 Their ears had become droopy.

00:17:57.000 Their jaws had become less pronounced and smaller.

00:18:00.000 Their behavior was markedly different.

00:18:03.000 They literally were almost a different species, and it was within 10 years.

00:18:08.000 Things adapt and change.

00:18:10.000 The reverse to that is, and I think I heard it on your podcast, is that if you were to release a pig, and then it eventually starts growing hair again and maybe protruding some tusks.

00:18:19.000 Within six weeks.

00:18:21.000 Within six weeks.

00:18:23.000 A fucking month of a pig living in the wild, and all of a sudden their hair starts growing thicker and longer, their nose extends, their tusks grow larger, they become a different thing.

00:18:33.000 They literally start to adapt to the physical shape of a wild pig.

00:18:42.000 Have you ever been around wild pigs?

00:18:44.000 No, I've not.

00:18:45.000 They're really interesting.

00:18:46.000 First of all, a lot of them are black.

00:18:49.000 They're like a dark, dark color.

00:18:51.000 I'm not even talking about boars.

00:18:53.000 When we think of boar, a boar is actually the term for a male pig.

00:18:57.000 So when people go to a menu and it says wild boar sausage, is it really?

00:19:03.000 How do you know it's not a wild girl?

00:19:05.000 It might be a sow.

00:19:07.000 It's an ignorant terminology.

00:19:10.000 But then there's these Russian boars.

00:19:12.000 There's a different type of boar that lives in other countries.

00:19:16.000 I don't know exactly what the genus is, what the name is.

00:19:19.000 But the crazy thing is they're all interchangeable.

00:19:21.000 They can all breed with each other.

00:19:23.000 They're all the same thing, ultimately.

00:19:26.000 Sort of the idea of dogs as well.

00:19:28.000 Dogs are crossbred all the time to sort of pull out the...

00:19:32.000 The advantages that we're looking for when we're breeding them.

00:19:35.000 Yes.

00:19:35.000 I know they were breeding, and I don't know, I can't remember where now, but they were selectively breeding this hunter of a dog, and they just made this mammoth machine, but also a docile, docile and trusted creature.

00:19:48.000 I wish I remembered where I read that.

00:19:51.000 Yeah, they're, I mean, it's amazing that dogs are a lot like people in that way.

00:19:56.000 There's a lot of different variations of people, you know?

00:19:59.000 I mean, you've got Shaquille O'Neal, and then you've got, you know, Natasha Leggero, right?

00:20:05.000 Little tiny Natasha, she's a comedian.

00:20:08.000 She's like 100 pounds.

00:20:10.000 You know, people vary almost as much as dogs do in that sense.

00:20:14.000 You know, we're all sorts of different shapes and looks and But my point being, wild animals, like a feral cat.

00:20:22.000 I've had feral cats before.

00:20:23.000 I had a feral cat.

00:20:24.000 And he was fucking nuts.

00:20:26.000 Could you actually get near him?

00:20:27.000 I could.

00:20:28.000 Only me.

00:20:30.000 Like literally only me.

00:20:31.000 No one else could get near him.

00:20:33.000 He would hiss and fucking run away.

00:20:34.000 He would hiss at me half the time.

00:20:36.000 But if I approached him real slow.

00:20:38.000 But once I picked him up, oh my god, he would start purring like crazy.

00:20:42.000 The fact alone that you got close enough to be able to pick him up is pretty rare.

00:20:46.000 Well, what I did was I tamed him in a weird way.

00:20:49.000 My friend Laney, her boyfriend and her lived in this apartment, and they had down below, I went to high school with her, and down below their apartment, they found a cat that had given birth to a litter, a wild, and this is like Santa Monica.

00:21:04.000 So they're like, oh my God, what are we going to do?

00:21:07.000 So they decided to capture these cats and try to get them home.

00:21:10.000 So me, like the asshole that I am, I said, all right, I'll take it.

00:21:12.000 So I took one of them.

00:21:14.000 I brought him home and he was so...

00:21:16.000 I thought, ah, he's a kitten.

00:21:18.000 I'll bring him home and hang out with my cat.

00:21:20.000 Everything will be cool.

00:21:21.000 I had two cats at the time.

00:21:23.000 And he was so fucking different than them.

00:21:27.000 He was like, he'd look at you like...

00:21:29.000 Just hiss and fucking jump up five, six feet in the air.

00:21:33.000 Just fundamentally different, right?

00:21:33.000 Oh my god, he was so scared of everything.

00:21:36.000 He was terrified.

00:21:36.000 Everything was a legitimate life-or-death struggle.

00:21:40.000 So, the internet wasn't around back then, so I was trying to figure out, like, okay, how the fuck do I do this?

00:21:45.000 I gotta get to know this little dude.

00:21:47.000 Food.

00:21:48.000 Yeah, food, and what I did was I... I took this room in my house.

00:21:54.000 I put a bed in there.

00:21:55.000 It was like a guest room.

00:21:56.000 Sorry, I already had a bed in there.

00:21:57.000 But I decided this was going to be my room now.

00:21:59.000 So I closed myself in there, put a litter box in there, brought some books in, and I hung out with this fucking cat for two days.

00:22:06.000 You're a brave dude, man.

00:22:07.000 Just me and this cat.

00:22:08.000 I've seen cats attack humans, and it's violent, man.

00:22:11.000 Yeah, but he was a kitten.

00:22:11.000 It was a baby.

00:22:12.000 Okay.

00:22:13.000 It was a baby.

00:22:13.000 I would've never done this to a full-blown cat.

00:22:15.000 You can't.

00:22:16.000 You can't.

00:22:17.000 A full-blown cat, you can't train him.

00:22:19.000 No, it's over.

00:22:19.000 He was only- he was a little tiny thing.

00:22:21.000 So what I did was, uh, I would- I would pet him, and he'd purr like crazy, and then when I put him down, he would hiss at me and run away.

00:22:28.000 Like, he was so fucked up.

00:22:30.000 And I mean, he would jump- he would- he fucked up my curtains, jumped through the air and grabbed the curtains and like- I was like trying to climb them and shit.

00:22:38.000 It was like- out of control.

00:22:39.000 I was like, dude, I was just petting you a few seconds ago.

00:22:42.000 But the life or death struggle that these things were involved in, even whatever he got from his mom and his dad, like the genes that were passed down, those are genes of wild animals that were really scared of everything and trying to survive.

00:22:55.000 So he thought he was about to get eaten.

00:22:57.000 Yeah.

00:22:58.000 But he became my little buddy.

00:23:00.000 Yeah.

00:23:01.000 Took a while.

00:23:02.000 Was there an element of you that sort of loved the fact that he was badass and scratching your curtains and shit, or were you like, no, I hate it?

00:23:07.000 It was fascinating.

00:23:08.000 It was like, I'm a big fan of just the idea of wildlife.

00:23:15.000 You know, I think we live in cities, and living in cities and...

00:23:20.000 Driving cars and sleeping in nice houses and, you know, having a yard.

00:23:25.000 It's probably as close to a lot of people get to nature on a daily basis as they got a tree and some fucking grass in their yard.

00:23:31.000 When you're out in wild and you see wild nature...

00:23:35.000 One of the most fascinating things about hunting is not just the pursuit of an animal that you're going to eat, but it's also spending a lot of time out there in the real wild.

00:23:45.000 Like the real wild where a fucking elk lives, you know, where a thousand pound animal lives its life with fucking trees growing out of its head and wanders through the forest.

00:23:58.000 Couple weeks a month out of the year gets to fuck and the rest of the time is just running from danger and eating.

00:24:03.000 Fighting.

00:24:04.000 It's massively interesting.

00:24:06.000 Doesn't have the slightest clue of the modern world, you know?

00:24:09.000 Couldn't care less.

00:24:10.000 All it cares about is doing what it naturally does to stay alive.

00:24:14.000 And that's really where animals should be.

00:24:15.000 Yeah.

00:24:16.000 I mean that's the premise of what we're sort of dealing with.

00:24:19.000 But it's just so fascinating when they're there.

00:24:22.000 I encourage everybody.

00:24:24.000 I mean, zoos are bullshit, man.

00:24:25.000 They're bullshit.

00:24:26.000 They give you a stupid idea of what an animal is.

00:24:29.000 It's just a business.

00:24:30.000 They're there to make your money.

00:24:30.000 They're not reintroducing animals into the wild.

00:24:33.000 There's no program.

00:24:33.000 I mean, I don't want to say there's none on there.

00:24:35.000 I'd like to hope that there are some.

00:24:36.000 There are programs where they help animals.

00:24:38.000 You know what it is?

00:24:39.000 It's like there's some animals that are so far gone and need so much help that it actually benefits them to have some of them in captivity just so they can keep a breeding population alive.

00:24:52.000 But ultimately, does that breeding population get reintroduced in the wild in any capacity?

00:24:56.000 Some of them in some cases.

00:24:58.000 They've done it with tigers, I know.

00:25:00.000 They've done it with some animals.

00:25:01.000 It's hard.

00:25:02.000 You know, it's fucking hard.

00:25:03.000 I mean, I'm not slighting in any way people who care about wild animals.

00:25:07.000 I absolutely care about wild animals.

00:25:09.000 I think it's amazing.

00:25:10.000 I mean, people think you don't if you hunt or you eat.

00:25:12.000 And I get it.

00:25:13.000 I understand.

00:25:14.000 I understand where they're coming from.

00:25:15.000 But...

00:25:16.000 This is how I try to look at it.

00:25:18.000 Those animals are going to die no matter what.

00:25:22.000 They're all going to die.

00:25:23.000 They're not going to live forever.

00:25:24.000 I'm not talking about wiping out populations with hunting.

00:25:28.000 I'm not doing that, and I don't think any hunters are trying to do that.

00:25:31.000 What hunters are trying to do, and what they have done, there's more deer in North America today than there were when Columbus landed.

00:25:38.000 And the reason is a bunch of things.

00:25:40.000 But a big part of it is wildlife management.

00:25:43.000 The wildlife agencies, like the Department of Fish and Wildlife in America, Department of Fish and Game, they're very careful about how many deer they allow people to take.

00:25:54.000 And there's consequences for poaching, like stiff consequences.

00:25:56.000 They put you in jail.

00:25:57.000 And because of these rules and enforcing these ethics, they've allowed these animals to grow in massive numbers.

00:26:04.000 And then, of course, there's also agriculture.

00:26:05.000 Agriculture contributes to them a lot.

00:26:07.000 Like the most deer population or the biggest deer population in America is usually around people.

00:26:14.000 It's usually on people and farms.

00:26:15.000 Some of the biggest deer in the world, like Iowa and Kansas, they're known for the biggest deer in at least North America.

00:26:21.000 Canada is actually known for the biggest ones.

00:26:23.000 But that has to do with cold temperatures creating larger-bodied animals because they have to generate more heat to stay alive.

00:26:31.000 But my point is, I'm not a hater of animals just because I kill them and eat them.

00:26:36.000 In fact, I love them.

00:26:37.000 I really do.

00:26:38.000 It sounds...

00:26:39.000 I get it.

00:26:39.000 I know it sounds contradictory.

00:26:41.000 But what you're doing when you're eating an animal is almost like a sacred thing.

00:26:46.000 When you hunt an animal and you kill and you eat it, it sounds like such hippie horseshit or some pseudo-spiritual horseshit.

00:26:54.000 But it is kind of sacred.

00:26:55.000 There's something that happens.

00:26:56.000 When I cook a steak of an elk...

00:27:00.000 That I ate, and I grill that thing, and I eat it.

00:27:02.000 There's a connection that I have to that meat that's crazy.

00:27:06.000 It's incredible.

00:27:06.000 You've earned it on different levels.

00:27:08.000 You've earned it.

00:27:09.000 I don't know if the word earned it is the correct word, but I'm connected to it.

00:27:14.000 Sure.

00:27:14.000 You know, I'm connected to that animal.

00:27:16.000 I'm connected to where this meat comes from.

00:27:18.000 I know that that animal ate from the grass, you know, in the forest, and then I killed it, and now I'm eating it, and this is like this weird, crazy cycle.

00:27:29.000 I grew up on moose meat.

00:27:31.000 My dad was a hunter, avid hunter.

00:27:33.000 He went out there.

00:27:33.000 I mean, I saw a photo recently of a...

00:27:35.000 Get up on that microphone, my friend.

00:27:36.000 I'll pull it towards you.

00:27:37.000 You can pull it towards you.

00:27:37.000 My bad.

00:27:38.000 I saw a photo recently of my dad back.

00:27:40.000 It has to be in the 80s.

00:27:40.000 And he took down a bull moose.

00:27:42.000 I mean, this was a massive animal.

00:27:43.000 The best of my recollection was just eating that animal.

00:27:47.000 So, I mean, even the fact alone that I'm a meat eater...

00:27:50.000 You know, people...

00:27:52.000 Rarely now.

00:27:52.000 Back in 2012, this is a different story, but there's been largely a paradigm shift in how we view animals, especially captive animals.

00:27:59.000 I was called out quite a bit for being a hypocrite.

00:28:01.000 Oh, you eat meat?

00:28:02.000 Oh, you got leather shoes?

00:28:03.000 It's as if my message is worth nothing.

00:28:06.000 It's like, well, you're not paying attention to the core of my message.

00:28:09.000 Stop attacking the messenger.

00:28:11.000 That's the sort of defense I have against people who like to call hypocrisy in everything.

00:28:15.000 Do you eat fast food?

00:28:16.000 Do you eat, like, store-bought food?

00:28:18.000 Yeah, at my weakest moments, and I'm admittedly a weak man.

00:28:21.000 I tried not to, and last time I was on the show, I'd stress that, you know, I tried to get away from pork, and still I tried to make as ethical a decision as possible, but not at three in the morning, you know?

00:28:31.000 It just happens.

00:28:31.000 It was just like last night, we were driving around, we were cruising around, we needed to eat, and we found our food, and we gave them that paper money, and I slept better.

00:28:39.000 Yeah.

00:28:41.000 It's tricky, right?

00:28:42.000 Tricky trying to stay alive.

00:28:44.000 Yeah.

00:28:44.000 And the last time I was on the show, I'd actually mentioned that I had a hard time getting off cheese.

00:28:48.000 And it's interesting because recently I read a study that cheese may very well react to, or your mind may actually react to cheese similarly to crack.

00:28:57.000 Really?

00:28:57.000 Yeah.

00:28:58.000 I wish I could quote it better.

00:29:00.000 Again, I'm not a scientist, but I did read this article and it said that the more processed that a food is, it creates some type of fat that your brain itself becomes addicted to.

00:29:09.000 And they actually referenced an addiction to crack and that it was similar.

00:29:12.000 Look at this.

00:29:13.000 Cheese really is crack.

00:29:15.000 Jamie, you're on the ball.

00:29:16.000 You need a raise.

00:29:17.000 Cheese really is crack.

00:29:19.000 Study reveals cheese is as addictive as drugs.

00:29:22.000 That is fucking insane.

00:29:23.000 Well, you know what?

00:29:24.000 That makes sense.

00:29:24.000 Because I'll tell you what.

00:29:25.000 Anthony Bourdain, that motherfucker loves cheese.

00:29:29.000 And he's had notorious substance abuse problems in the past.

00:29:33.000 But I fucking hung out with him, man.

00:29:36.000 The way he talks about cheese is the way young 22-year-old guys talk about pussy.

00:29:40.000 Okay, now you know.

00:29:41.000 It's like...

00:29:42.000 It's like, oh my god, stinky cheese, the stinkiest of better.

00:29:46.000 Pull that up so I can understand that, Jamie.

00:29:47.000 Let me pull it up so the text could read.

00:29:51.000 This is fucking nuts.

00:29:52.000 For years you've been telling your friends, family, co-workers, what is the title of this?

00:29:55.000 It's from the LA Times Food Daily Dish by Jen Harris.

00:30:02.000 And it says, for years you've been telling your friends, family, co-workers, and anyone who will listen that you're addicted to cheese.

00:30:08.000 It's part of every meal or snack, and you think about it constantly.

00:30:12.000 A few studies suggest that food addiction is a real thing.

00:30:15.000 The study published by the U.S. National Library of Medicine examines why certain foods are more addictive than others.

00:30:21.000 Researchers identified addictive foods from about 500 people who completed in the Yale Food Addiction Scale.

00:30:27.000 Huh.

00:30:28.000 Okay.

00:30:29.000 Cheese happens to be especially addictive because of an ingredient called casein.

00:30:33.000 Okay, it's a protein found in all milk products during digestion.

00:30:37.000 Am I saying that right?

00:30:38.000 C-A-S-E-I-N releases opiates.

00:30:42.000 Whoa!

00:30:44.000 Called casomorphins.

00:30:46.000 Holy shit.

00:30:48.000 Opiates get released when you eat cheese.

00:30:51.000 Really play with the dopamine receptors and trigger that addictive element.

00:30:55.000 Wow.

00:30:56.000 That's amazing.

00:30:57.000 People are going to start putting some Kraft synthetic cheese in syringes.

00:31:00.000 I don't know.

00:31:00.000 You know what I've been eating lately?

00:31:02.000 I've been eating raw cheese.

00:31:04.000 I've been getting raw cheese from the Whole Foods.

00:31:06.000 Whole Foods has the raw cheese.

00:31:08.000 It's made with raw milk.

00:31:09.000 It's fucking great, man.

00:31:10.000 It's really good.

00:31:11.000 Raw milk is great, too.

00:31:12.000 That's the thing I've gotten away from the most.

00:31:14.000 Growing up, I drank a lot of milk.

00:31:16.000 A lot of milk.

00:31:17.000 I would say more than the average person.

00:31:19.000 Now, I can't stomach a glass of milk.

00:31:21.000 Yeah, I just can't.

00:31:22.000 I have no urge for it whatsoever.

00:31:23.000 So, how do you eat cookies?

00:31:26.000 Okay, there's when the hypocrisy comes in, right?

00:31:29.000 I'm the largest hypocrite, I admit it.

00:31:31.000 Yeah, so you're right.

00:31:31.000 So I guess I do have a dip, of course.

00:31:36.000 And I've heard on the podcast before, and I'm going to accept some of the judgment that's going to come from it.

00:31:40.000 But I've made the switch to almond milk.

00:31:43.000 And feel free to rant about how bad almond milk is for...

00:31:47.000 A, the environment, A, for all the almonds that are being wasted and the water use and everything else.

00:31:52.000 I mean, there is a perspective that people like to say, oh, almond milk, that's a healthy alternative.

00:31:55.000 But if you look at it from the other side, the environmental impact and everything else, almond milk's shit.

00:32:00.000 Well, it's not bad.

00:32:02.000 It's just what almond milk...

00:32:03.000 Here's one thing that everybody needs to consider.

00:32:05.000 When you buy almond milk and it tastes good, it's like, oh, this is so sweet.

00:32:09.000 Look at the fucking label, bitches, all right?

00:32:11.000 Because I guarantee you that shit is filled with sugar.

00:32:13.000 Duncan called me up.

00:32:14.000 Dude, I've been drinking almond milk.

00:32:16.000 It's amazing!

00:32:17.000 It's so delicious!

00:32:18.000 I go, okay.

00:32:19.000 What kind are you drinking?

00:32:20.000 He tells me the kind.

00:32:21.000 I go, look at the label and look how much sugar is in it.

00:32:24.000 He goes, holy shit!

00:32:26.000 He's like, 18 grams?

00:32:28.000 I'm like, yeah, every glass is 18 fucking grams of sugar.

00:32:31.000 That's a lot of sugar.

00:32:33.000 I think you're not supposed to have, like, if you're trying to be healthy...

00:32:36.000 I don't believe you're supposed to have more than 25 grams of sugar a day.

00:32:39.000 I think there's like a limit.

00:32:41.000 Well, you hit a limit, and if you go over that, you're like, whoa, you're fucking with your body there.

00:32:46.000 And this dude's getting most of that from a glass of supposedly healthy almond milk.

00:32:51.000 Well, I don't drink a lot of it, admittedly, but it's the alternative.

00:32:54.000 Yeah, I think it does taste good.

00:32:56.000 It's got a nutty flavor.

00:32:57.000 It's got a nice texture.

00:32:58.000 What can I say?

00:32:59.000 It's really bad when you're in a place like California, which is normally experiencing a drought today.

00:33:05.000 It's pouring like fucking crazy.

00:33:06.000 We're in the middle of El Nino.

00:33:08.000 I do not know if you know.

00:33:10.000 This is El Nino and its effects.

00:33:12.000 You want to warm the water?

00:33:14.000 You think that there's no consequences to your actions?

00:33:17.000 Wrong!

00:33:18.000 El Nino is here.

00:33:20.000 It couldn't wait three days for me to...

00:33:22.000 No.

00:33:23.000 No, it's good.

00:33:24.000 It's good.

00:33:24.000 I like it.

00:33:25.000 I like watching all these fucking dummies who have no idea how to drive when it rains out.

00:33:30.000 That's one of the things I loved about when I lived in Colorado for the brief time when it would snow.

00:33:35.000 It's like, ah, yes.

00:33:37.000 I love a little consequences for living on Earth.

00:33:40.000 Nature is a thing that we avoid in California.

00:33:45.000 We've avoided it.

00:33:46.000 It barely exists.

00:33:48.000 We go to the ocean and we're like, whoa, cool, nature.

00:33:51.000 That's the only time.

00:33:52.000 You can go visit it.

00:33:53.000 You can go to the park and visit it.

00:33:54.000 But it doesn't rain.

00:33:56.000 There's no weather.

00:33:57.000 There's no consequences.

00:33:58.000 I feel like water probably in California is, in a way, the glue that's going to keep the ground together because you guys are in a badass drought.

00:34:05.000 I've seen these before and after pictures and I'm like, wow.

00:34:07.000 I remember when I was repeatedly asking you to come back in the show, I'd be like, I've got to get in there before California runs out of water.

00:34:14.000 We're not out of water.

00:34:15.000 We're right next to the fucking ocean.

00:34:17.000 They just need to figure out how to suck that water out of the ocean and get the salt out of it.

00:34:21.000 If we could put people on the moon, how the hell can we not get salt out of the fucking water?

00:34:27.000 Just stop making smaller phones.

00:34:29.000 Stop adding new TV channels to DirecTV.

00:34:33.000 Figure it out, you fucks.

00:34:34.000 Just get in there and suck that water out and let's turn this bitch into a rainforest.

00:34:38.000 Start spraying that shit from the sky.

00:34:40.000 All those chemtrail planes that all those wackos are worried about.

00:34:43.000 Let's have those fuckers for real.

00:34:45.000 Just fill them up with water and just dump it on us.

00:34:48.000 Just get those giant planes filled with water and just dump water on everybody.

00:34:53.000 Surely a million dollar idea.

00:34:55.000 I think it probably costs a little more than that.

00:34:58.000 I was thinking of the earnings, if you can manage to figure out how to extract that.

00:35:01.000 Well, they actually have a desalination plant that they are going online with this year, I believe, in San Diego.

00:35:08.000 Is that this year?

00:35:09.000 Do you know that story, Jamie?

00:35:13.000 Apparently, they do have emerging technologies to extract salt from water.

00:35:18.000 And they've used them in the Middle East where they just have ungodly amounts of money.

00:35:22.000 They just have so much money over there because of the oil.

00:35:25.000 Some of these dudes have tried to use that money to create machines that can suck the salt out of the water and figure out some way to filter it.

00:35:33.000 If Bill Gates can drink water from his own shit, you'd like to think that someone could...

00:35:37.000 Is that what he's doing?

00:35:38.000 He did.

00:35:38.000 Good for him.

00:35:39.000 He invented a machine that extracted water from human shit, and there he was.

00:35:43.000 From actual shit or from sewage?

00:35:45.000 I think it was shit.

00:35:46.000 I think it was shit.

00:35:47.000 We'll use the word sewage just for the sake of making a little more broader spectrum of...

00:35:51.000 Jesus Christ.

00:35:51.000 Yeah.

00:35:52.000 Well, that's what you do when you have $90 billion.

00:35:54.000 It's bold.

00:35:56.000 Everybody's getting Fiji and Evian.

00:35:58.000 I heard Fiji's not even really from Fiji, those fucks.

00:36:02.000 I heard that's bullshit.

00:36:04.000 Yeah, I heard Fiji is just some fucking, just some spring water from the middle of nowhere.

00:36:08.000 That plan opened up December 14th.

00:36:10.000 Oh, it did open up.

00:36:11.000 Okay.

00:36:11.000 So it went online at the end of 2015. That's interesting.

00:36:14.000 That's good.

00:36:15.000 Huge developments.

00:36:15.000 Yeah.

00:36:16.000 That's gonna happen.

00:36:17.000 That's gonna fix the whole fucking problem.

00:36:19.000 We're gonna go, Jesus Christ.

00:36:20.000 We were right next to so much water, you have to fly over it in a fucking plane, and it takes 16 hours to get to the other side.

00:36:27.000 And I'm going to plead ignorant here, but why are we not just showering with saltwater or maybe extinguishing fires with saltwater?

00:36:34.000 Why are we not using the saltwater in different capacities that we're not imposing so much...

00:36:38.000 That's a good question.

00:36:38.000 To process it, the thing about saltwater is it does corrode things really badly.

00:36:44.000 If you're near the ocean...

00:36:46.000 I have a friend who has a beach house.

00:36:49.000 Every time we go to hang out with him at his beach house, everything's all fucked up and corroded.

00:36:54.000 They're constantly dealing with corrosion because of the salt in the air.

00:36:57.000 It's just a constant moisture and salt together.

00:36:59.000 They just corrode the shit out of things.

00:37:01.000 That's why where I used to live in Boston, the cars are always fucked up.

00:37:07.000 Old cars, it's hard to find.

00:37:08.000 If you want to find a 1970 Plymouth or something like that, it's hard to find one that's in good shape because they're all rusted out from the salt that they throw on the ground when it snows out to melt the snow.

00:37:20.000 That's why my cars are all fucked up.

00:37:22.000 So the point being, the problem with almond milk is it uses a lot of water.

00:37:25.000 They use a shitload of water.

00:37:27.000 And a lot of almonds.

00:37:27.000 I guess you're extracting very little of the nutritional value from the almonds per capita, if you will, versus this mass amount.

00:37:33.000 Right, but...

00:37:34.000 Grinding it down or whatever.

00:37:35.000 Fuck almonds.

00:37:36.000 That's what I have to say, dude.

00:37:37.000 Fuck them.

00:37:38.000 Who cares?

00:37:38.000 I'll eat almonds all day and not care about their life.

00:37:41.000 That's the thing about life.

00:37:42.000 We don't really care much about plant life.

00:37:45.000 We want it to be there, but we don't think about it the way we think about animal life.

00:37:50.000 Like, we want animal life to be there, but we don't want anybody to kill it.

00:37:53.000 Like, plant life, the only time people get bummed out about plants is when...

00:37:56.000 Someone chops down an ancient redwood or something like that.

00:37:58.000 Like, oh God, how could you?

00:38:00.000 And again, I've read somewhere where plants can actually hear when they're being eaten.

00:38:05.000 And I've seen some studies, or rather, I read something somewhere, again, where a plant has a similar hunting behavior as animals.

00:38:12.000 Where they're actually, the roots will physically chase or find their nutrients.

00:38:17.000 So, you know, some would argue that plants are just as conscious or conceivably conscious as animals as well.

00:38:24.000 Well, they're different in the same way that humans are different than dolphins.

00:38:27.000 We were talking about the intelligence level of an orca versus the intelligence level of a person.

00:38:33.000 Like, we would like to think that we're smarter than them, but there's no evidence of that.

00:38:37.000 If we lived in the ocean, we would look like fucking idiots.

00:38:40.000 If we were swimming around with them trying to stay alive, they'd be like, look at these dummies with their fingers and their exposed dicks.

00:38:48.000 Their dicks getting eaten by crabs, these fucks.

00:38:51.000 They can't even sleep in the water.

00:38:53.000 They're just going to die.

00:38:54.000 They would think we were retarded, right?

00:38:56.000 So that's sort of how...

00:38:59.000 When we look at their life and what they're doing, they're perfectly adapted to their environment.

00:39:04.000 Well, a tree is perfectly adapted to its environment.

00:39:08.000 And there's been a lot of research done on plant intelligence.

00:39:12.000 And there is a lot of evidence to suggest that these aren't...

00:39:17.000 Inanimate objects like a rock that just happens to get larger every year.

00:39:22.000 No, these are living things.

00:39:24.000 They're living things that do calculations, that somehow or another communicate with each other.

00:39:29.000 They let other plants know when they're being preyed upon.

00:39:32.000 They develop methods in order to discourage predation, and that's where poisonous plants come from.

00:39:39.000 All poisonous plants come from discouraging predation.

00:39:42.000 That's what it's all about.

00:39:45.000 It's funny because one of the cruelest things I'd ever watched, and maybe it's because I have a vivid imagination, is if you've ever seen a Venus flytrap slowly dissolve its prey.

00:39:57.000 Wild shit.

00:39:58.000 Pretty evil, yeah.

00:39:59.000 Well, there's one that eats rats.

00:40:01.000 There's a fucking plant in the Amazon that looks like a giant tulip that eats rats.

00:40:05.000 Pull that up, Jamie.

00:40:07.000 This rat-eating plant.

00:40:10.000 And it's a plant.

00:40:11.000 It has a sickly, sweet smell to it, apparently.

00:40:15.000 And these animals go in it looking for food, and they go...

00:40:20.000 They just close in on them.

00:40:22.000 They don't bite and kill them.

00:40:23.000 They slowly envelop and dissolve them.

00:40:27.000 Just smush them.

00:40:28.000 Just trap them, smush them, and then absorb their nutrients.

00:40:31.000 Break them down to the very molecules and protein and liquids.

00:40:36.000 I'm going to get 250 people with signs on a plant's doorstep, protest them.

00:40:41.000 Well, plants are alive, man.

00:40:43.000 We need to eat living things.

00:40:45.000 Life eats life.

00:40:47.000 Life feeds on life.

00:40:48.000 It just does.

00:40:49.000 And what's going on now with animal rights activism and PETA and the Animal Liberation Organization is people who care.

00:40:58.000 That's what it really is.

00:40:59.000 Whether they're misguided, whether I agree with them.

00:41:01.000 They're people who care, and they're people who feel deeply about these animals.

00:41:06.000 Check this motherfucker out.

00:41:07.000 Watch this shit.

00:41:08.000 That's hunting behavior, for sure.

00:41:10.000 Look at this.

00:41:10.000 That thing may as well be fishing.

00:41:12.000 What happened?

00:41:13.000 We went...

00:41:14.000 There we go.

00:41:15.000 Here we go.

00:41:15.000 So this thing, it has like this open leaf, and these plants...

00:41:22.000 What are we watching here?

00:41:24.000 This is like a fast, speeded-up version of it.

00:41:28.000 So what happens is...

00:41:31.000 Is it growing here?

00:41:31.000 Is that what we're watching?

00:41:33.000 I thought Final Countdown was about to play.

00:41:35.000 I found another video, and it was way too quick.

00:41:37.000 It was just a mouse falling into a plant, so I didn't want to go with that.

00:41:40.000 And this one was a guy in front of one.

00:41:42.000 Okay, but this is, um...

00:41:43.000 We're watching the whole fucker grow.

00:41:45.000 This isn't...

00:41:46.000 So this is what happens.

00:41:47.000 This is where it is.

00:41:48.000 It opens up, and it looks like...

00:41:50.000 Almost like a hamper, where you throw your clothes in or something, or a strange green vagina.

00:41:55.000 That looks like a snake.

00:41:56.000 Like, that's crazy.

00:41:57.000 Yeah.

00:41:57.000 Well, there's a lot of that in the animal world.

00:42:00.000 This is all just growth though.

00:42:02.000 We're watching like high-speed growth.

00:42:03.000 We're not gonna watch it eat anything, Jamie.

00:42:05.000 We're gonna have to find another video.

00:42:07.000 When these things open up, they open up and the rats are attracted to the smell and they climb in that tube and when they climb in that tube, they wind up dying.

00:42:16.000 Show the one that has a...

00:42:19.000 Here it goes.

00:42:19.000 Eats a frog.

00:42:20.000 Here it go.

00:42:20.000 This is perfect.

00:42:21.000 This is the one.

00:42:23.000 This is gonna close right up on it.

00:42:25.000 It already did, Jamie.

00:42:26.000 Just watch this.

00:42:29.000 Just do it from the beginning.

00:42:31.000 Here it goes.

00:42:32.000 Watch this.

00:42:33.000 He's just hanging out like, what's that smell?

00:42:34.000 Let me just chew up.

00:42:35.000 She's just...

00:42:35.000 And then it eats him.

00:42:37.000 It's over.

00:42:38.000 Yeah, it eats...

00:42:38.000 And this is a new plant.

00:42:40.000 They've only discovered this fucker, I think, like five or six years ago.

00:42:44.000 And eats frogs, all sorts of things.

00:42:47.000 Look at this.

00:42:47.000 Watch this.

00:42:48.000 Look at this Venus flytrap.

00:42:49.000 That's a wrap, bitch!

00:42:51.000 That's cold-blooded, man.

00:42:52.000 That is so fucked up.

00:42:53.000 Play that again.

00:42:54.000 Good God.

00:42:56.000 That fucking frog.

00:42:57.000 Look at it.

00:42:57.000 He's like, what's the smell?

00:43:00.000 That is so crazy!

00:43:02.000 So it's one of the, for me anyways, that's one of the toughest things to watch.

00:43:05.000 Look at that!

00:43:06.000 I think it's the hours that poor animal's going to be just laying there incapacitated until ultimately, well, if it's suffocated, then it is what it is.

00:43:13.000 I didn't know a Venus flytrap could do that.

00:43:15.000 I didn't know they ate a frog.

00:43:16.000 Is that a different plant or is that a Venus flytrap?

00:43:18.000 It looks like it.

00:43:19.000 It has the fingers.

00:43:21.000 It's just...

00:43:23.000 That's what those plants have figured out is their method to get ahead.

00:43:28.000 That's their hustle.

00:43:29.000 Their hustle is they trap things and they suck them into their body and they eat them.

00:43:34.000 They survive, they evolve, get bigger, get stronger.

00:43:36.000 Yeah, those are predators, man.

00:43:38.000 These are carnivores.

00:43:39.000 Look at these fucking ants getting killed by this plant.

00:43:42.000 Oh my god.

00:43:44.000 There's so many of them, man.

00:43:45.000 There's so many different weird ones.

00:43:47.000 Look at this!

00:43:48.000 They roll up these ants.

00:43:50.000 Oh, this is so creepy!

00:43:51.000 It looks like a giant green tongue with, like, weird sort of spikes that grow on it.

00:43:58.000 And the spikes lift up and wrap around the ant, or the fly here in this case, and just trap them.

00:44:04.000 And once they have them trapped in there, he's stuck in the stickiness of the...

00:44:09.000 Look at this, with these ants.

00:44:11.000 And then it wraps up and...

00:44:13.000 Rolls them up like a burrito.

00:44:18.000 It's fucked up, man.

00:44:19.000 Yeah, nature's a tough place.

00:44:20.000 Nature doesn't give a fuck.

00:44:22.000 But I think nature is beautiful.

00:44:24.000 I think it's amazing.

00:44:25.000 I think if you really want to see nature, the way to see it is obviously documentaries and DVDs if you want to stay in your home.

00:44:31.000 But to actually see the physical animal, go somewhere.

00:44:35.000 Go somewhere and see them.

00:44:36.000 Go see them in their natural environment.

00:44:37.000 That's where you're going to get real respect for them.

00:44:39.000 Absolutely.

00:44:40.000 I'm taking one of my elk hunting trips this year.

00:44:45.000 I want to take my kids with me.

00:44:48.000 Not when I kill an animal because I don't want to make any noise.

00:44:51.000 I don't want to have to quiet them down because it's a very patient thing and it's something that would be very hard for a five-year-old to do.

00:44:58.000 Would you take issue with them seeing the kill itself?

00:45:00.000 No.

00:45:00.000 They've watched it on TV. Yeah, sure.

00:45:02.000 They've seen the meat.

00:45:03.000 They've seen me butcher meat.

00:45:05.000 They haven't seen me kill the whole animal, but they've seen me chop up a giant elk backstrap and turn it into steaks in the middle of the kitchen, just sitting there with a cutting board, slicing it up, and they ask questions.

00:45:16.000 And there isn't a disconnect between that meat having been a live animal?

00:45:19.000 No, they know.

00:45:21.000 Well, they've seen me on television kill animals on a TV show, so they know that I do it.

00:45:26.000 They know that...

00:45:28.000 I have targets in the yard.

00:45:29.000 I'm always practicing arrows and archery.

00:45:33.000 But what I want to do is not even the hunting aspect of it.

00:45:37.000 I want to take them so they can see the elk.

00:45:40.000 When elk are rutting and they're screaming, it is amazing.

00:45:44.000 It's like you're in Jurassic Park.

00:45:46.000 It's like you're in some Hobbit movie or something.

00:45:49.000 When you're in the hills, what I want to do is I want to plan a week of hunting, and then I want to pay a guide just to call in the elk so we can just watch them.

00:45:58.000 I just want the kids to see what it's like when you make this noise.

00:46:02.000 And then you see this fucking thing.

00:46:04.000 Looks like a giant forest horse that comes up and wants to fuck.

00:46:09.000 And they're screaming.

00:46:11.000 They have this crazy wail.

00:46:14.000 It's amazing to watch.

00:46:15.000 Outside of hunting.

00:46:17.000 Separate that.

00:46:19.000 That's all great and everything.

00:46:20.000 But just being a part of...

00:46:24.000 The environment, like stepping on the ground where these things live wild.

00:46:28.000 And all they're worried about is like mountain lions and bears.

00:46:32.000 And that's what they're doing.

00:46:33.000 They're trying to stay alive.

00:46:34.000 They're trying to get laid.

00:46:35.000 And they're existing in this very bizarre world that we rarely get to see.

00:46:41.000 Yeah, we can't really truly appreciate it because we don't have to worry about it.

00:46:44.000 We don't have to worry about what their concerns are anymore.

00:46:46.000 Well, even, like, look at Africa, man.

00:46:48.000 They have these tourism things they do in Africa, but a good percentage of them are in these high-fence operations where they've sort of fenced in these animals in these giant contained wildlife sanctuaries.

00:47:00.000 And the animals thrive in there, but how do you see...

00:47:04.000 I mean, the way you see them is you get in a jeep and you drive around, and even if the...

00:47:09.000 There's something fucked up about knowing that they can't leave.

00:47:13.000 Even if it's like 10 miles in every direction and there's a fence, and they would never roam 10 miles in the wild.

00:47:19.000 The fact that there's a fence at all, the fact that we've gotten our greasy little hands in their world, it kind of changes it in a way.

00:47:27.000 Well, it's funny because I actually witnessed a rutting deer, a male, of course, Trying to enter the premises of Marineland, and there's a large fence around it.

00:47:37.000 And this thing was so...

00:47:39.000 I mean, a rutting deer is actually a pretty dangerous animal.

00:47:43.000 I mean, their sexual urges are far beyond any type of, like, it just trumps any behavior that they would have.

00:47:50.000 So this thing was smashing.

00:47:52.000 It must have been smelling the females inside the park, but it was repeatedly smashing itself against the fence, trying to get in to the point where it ripped half its face off.

00:47:59.000 Its antlers were getting fucked up.

00:48:00.000 So we actually called a hunter who had been in the back.

00:48:03.000 Who had had the permission by the owner of Marineland to hunt inside some wild deer.

00:48:07.000 And we went and got him.

00:48:08.000 And he came, put the first bow, went directly through the animal, didn't kill it, got a second bow, and then put the animal down and killed it.

00:48:15.000 And then we ate the sausage sometime later, of course.

00:48:18.000 Yeah, they get crazy.

00:48:19.000 Moose are super aggressive when they get horny.

00:48:22.000 They're dangerous.

00:48:23.000 I've been in Algonquin Park at times when the moose are rutting and that is by far the most dangerous animal out there for you.

00:48:30.000 You don't want to get anywhere near a rutting moose.

00:48:33.000 They're so big.

00:48:34.000 Have you ever seen one in the wild?

00:48:35.000 I have, yeah, of course.

00:48:36.000 God!

00:48:37.000 The first time I saw one in the wild was in the middle of British Columbia in the forest.

00:48:43.000 And it was like, the first one I saw was a female.

00:48:46.000 And we saw him in the distance.

00:48:47.000 And I was like, oh my.

00:48:49.000 It was like that scene in Jurassic Park where Jeff Goldblum lifts his head up out of the Jeep.

00:48:53.000 And he's like, what?

00:48:54.000 Like, you can't believe how big they are.

00:48:57.000 They're like, the males get to 1,800 pounds.

00:49:00.000 1,800 pounds.

00:49:01.000 The biggest elk that I killed was around 1,000 pounds.

00:49:05.000 So imagine something fucking twice the size of that.

00:49:07.000 You can drive your car under a moose.

00:49:09.000 Yeah.

00:49:09.000 It's crazy.

00:49:10.000 Yeah.

00:49:10.000 Well, my friend, my friend Mike Hawkridge, who runs Big Country Outfitters up there, he got chased by a female moose.

00:49:19.000 On a horse.

00:49:20.000 He was on his horse.

00:49:21.000 Wow.

00:49:21.000 And the female had the calves with him, which is when they get really fucking dangerous.

00:49:25.000 And they get aggressive.

00:49:26.000 And the horse was running and the fucking moose was gaining on them.

00:49:29.000 And he was like, holy shit.

00:49:31.000 And he realized, like, oh my god, like, this is fucking, this could be it.

00:49:36.000 It's good that the horse kept its cool or kept its footing, at least.

00:49:39.000 That'd be a fucked up scene.

00:49:40.000 Oh, yeah.

00:49:40.000 Well, if the horse slipped and fell.

00:49:42.000 Or if the horse said, fuck this guy on my back.

00:49:44.000 Like, I'm out.

00:49:45.000 I don't think he could.

00:49:46.000 I mean, he had a saddle and everything like that.

00:49:48.000 Yeah.

00:49:48.000 I don't know if the horse is that smart.

00:49:51.000 Point being, I mean, what we're saying is almond milk is bullshit.

00:49:55.000 That's what we're saying.

00:49:56.000 That's the bottom line.

00:49:59.000 Almond milk sucks.

00:50:00.000 It's alright.

00:50:01.000 So what has changed since the two years that you've been here other than there's a lot of public acknowledgement and understanding now that it wasn't available or wasn't it sort of wasn't at the level that it is now.

00:50:14.000 I think people are much more outraged now about SeaWorld and about marine land and just the idea of captive orcas and dolphins and in your case walruses.

00:50:25.000 Well, so the first thing we did was we managed to ban orca captivity in Ontario.

00:50:31.000 That's done now.

00:50:32.000 So Marineland will never, and mark my word, they will never acquire another killer whale, whether it be wild caught or not.

00:50:39.000 So that was a big win for animal activists, if you will, or anyone for that matter who has any invested interest in the well-being of animals.

00:50:45.000 Just as of January 1st, we're 2016 now, there are standards of care, which is what I actually petitioned the government for back in 2012, because when I came out and sort of revealed Marineland for what it actually is behind the scenes,

00:51:01.000 during that time, there were no standards of care.

00:51:03.000 You could literally have dug a hole in your backyard, filled it with whatever you want, and then, you know, plunked yourself some dolphins in there, and that was fine.

00:51:10.000 There were no standards of care.

00:51:11.000 There was no oversight in any capacity.

00:51:14.000 That's changed, albeit the letter of the regulations that we have now, I would say that few people are really satisfied.

00:51:20.000 There's still lots of work to do with them, but the fact alone that they are now legislated, we'll be able to change some of the parameters.

00:51:28.000 One of the biggest things is that there's in fact water quality parameters.

00:51:32.000 In the last eight months of my tenure at Marine Land, I was witness to...

00:51:36.000 Some of the more horrific things that caustic water can do to animals.

00:51:42.000 I witnessed dolphins lose their skin.

00:51:44.000 I mean, the skin was flaking off.

00:51:46.000 Literally flaking off their skin.

00:51:47.000 And we're not talking about just a regular slough.

00:51:50.000 There was some permanent eye damage that was done.

00:51:52.000 What happened was there was a breakdown in a disinfection unit.

00:51:56.000 A water disinfection unit.

00:51:57.000 We used to use ozone in conjunction with chlorine.

00:52:00.000 Ozone mitigated the use of chlorine, so you didn't have to use so much of it.

00:52:02.000 And when that machine broke down, the resolve was just keep pumping more chlorine, keep pumping more chlorine.

00:52:08.000 And because we were in the off-season, the public wasn't seeing this.

00:52:11.000 And this is 2012. I had an old shitty Blackberry, but I was conscious enough of how bad things were that I started snapping photos.

00:52:18.000 Taking videos.

00:52:19.000 And, you know, there was a major complacency for management because, hey, shit, we're not opening again for another eight months or six months, whatever it be.

00:52:25.000 I think the issue started in October and they opened in November.

00:52:28.000 And so there were no parameters.

00:52:31.000 There was no oversight.

00:52:32.000 There was nowhere for me to run to find help.

00:52:35.000 Now there is that.

00:52:36.000 So now Marineland has to adhere to new legislation that will require some capital investment from them, which of course is something that we like to hear.

00:52:48.000 I think?

00:52:55.000 I think?

00:53:12.000 203, I believe.

00:53:13.000 And this bill, once it passes the Senate and ultimately passes into law, is going to ban both the import, the breeding of all whales, porpoises, captivity, or rather, and whales in captivity in Canada.

00:53:27.000 Basically putting a shelf life on marine land in the capacity that they do business now.

00:53:35.000 This is a bill that I'm urging people, look, if you give a shit about animals in captivity, you know, tweet Justin Trudeau, our recently elected Prime Minister, and yeah, we're really trying to, we're looking forward to moving this thing forward.

00:53:50.000 Beyond that, it's always a thing about what I call the paradigm shift.

00:53:55.000 People don't want to visit zoos no more.

00:53:58.000 Attendance at Marine Land is annihilated.

00:54:00.000 Now, this doesn't stop him from exacting a gross revenge on me, but nonetheless, we're still afloat.

00:54:05.000 We're still here three years later amidst all these bullshit lawsuits, as I stressed before, these slap lawsuits, strategic lawsuits against public participation.

00:54:12.000 When I got sued, Well, I had hoped one day we'd be in court.

00:54:16.000 Here we are, well over a thousand days later, and I've spent, well, I say I've spent, but we've publicly raised a lot of money.

00:54:23.000 We've spent collectively, over the three former animal trainers that are turned whistleblowers, we've collectively spent over $100,000 and not had a single day in court.

00:54:32.000 So it's all just trying to drain you legally.

00:54:35.000 Look, Joe, the fact alone that I'm speaking into this microphone is exactly what Marineland doesn't want.

00:54:41.000 I'm dangerous to the anti-captivity, or rather the captivity industry, because I know a lot of things.

00:54:45.000 Of course, SeaWorld was, if you want to use the term, in bed with Marineland.

00:54:50.000 SeaWorld likes to acquire, because in the States you can't acquire wild-caught animals, what SeaWorld would do is they would get the animals that Marineland would import, so Marineland would import wild-caught belugas from Russia, Breed them.

00:55:05.000 And because the calves were bred in captivity, they could now be moved to the States.

00:55:10.000 So this is how SeaWorld in the States was trying to continue to acquire these animals.

00:55:16.000 And this is exactly what this bill is sort of trying to stop.

00:55:19.000 So that's one of the things that SeaWorld was full of shit about.

00:55:22.000 Because SeaWorld was trying to say, we haven't done...

00:55:24.000 One of their commercials was saying that they haven't...

00:55:29.000 They haven't brought in a whale in 35 years.

00:55:31.000 Yeah, they haven't captured a whale from the wild in 35 years.

00:55:34.000 There's a number of examples of that being bullshit.

00:55:35.000 One being a wild-caught orca, or what they deemed rescued orca named Morgan, that was captured off the coast of the Netherlands.

00:55:43.000 It was by itself.

00:55:45.000 It had left its pod or it had lost contact with its pod.

00:55:49.000 And so it's a dolphinarium called Dolphinarium hardevike.

00:55:55.000 They acquired this animal.

00:55:56.000 And then what they did, or they took it and they called it rehabbing.

00:55:59.000 And then they, of course, deem it non-releasable.

00:56:01.000 They sent it to a place, and it's outlined in Blackfish, in fact, because there's a large documentary Blackfish.

00:56:07.000 There's a relationship between SeaWorld and a facility called in Tenerife.

00:56:13.000 It's called Laurel Parque.

00:56:14.000 So what SeaWorld did was they had that animal, Morgan the wild orca, transferred to Laurel Park.

00:56:23.000 And now it's actually part and listed as part of its collection.

00:56:27.000 That's a wild-caught animal.

00:56:29.000 So SeaWorld will sit there and tout this idea, we haven't done this in years, and yet they're...

00:56:34.000 They're importing wild-caught animals that have just recently bred one, the babies from Canada, and then they're basically adding to their stock of animals this other wild-caught animal.

00:56:46.000 But we could talk about the bullshit that SeaWorld spews all day, but the nice thing is most people are now conscious of it.

00:56:52.000 Most people look at it and say, I mean, every time SeaWorld tweets anything, they get a lot of fucking hate because people know now, right?

00:56:57.000 They know.

00:56:58.000 They're essentially a slavery organization.

00:57:00.000 Yeah, I can't disagree.

00:57:01.000 And saying that we haven't captured a slave in 35 years is still disgusting.

00:57:06.000 The idea that that's okay, that they can just say, we haven't participated in slavery.

00:57:15.000 Catching slaves in 35 years.

00:57:16.000 We just keep them here.

00:57:18.000 Locked in a tiny little...

00:57:19.000 Have you ever seen the map?

00:57:20.000 I'm sure you have.

00:57:21.000 Of course.

00:57:21.000 Of the parking lot in juxtaposition to the actual area where the dolphins get to swim?

00:57:26.000 The most heartbreaking one is when that pool is right next to the ocean when you can see it physically right there.

00:57:31.000 There's a lot of facilities where the dolphins are spy hopping and they can see the sea.

00:57:34.000 It's right there.

00:57:35.000 The ocean is right there.

00:57:36.000 It's a question of picking them up and throwing them back in there, right?

00:57:38.000 Fuck.

00:57:39.000 Why can't they make it so that they can go back and forth?

00:57:43.000 Why can't they make it so that they can have, like, set up a facility?

00:57:48.000 This is the way you can make it so these animals can transition back to the wild, and that if they do decide to come and participate in shows, they could do it on their own free will.

00:57:56.000 Have like an open area where it's connected to like a dock, where the pools and the areas where the animals swim, they should be examined by some marine biologists that deem it ethical.

00:58:08.000 This is an enormous place.

00:58:10.000 As long as you don't keep them in here, but they can do their stuff in here and everything will be fine.

00:58:14.000 And have it be actual ocean water.

00:58:16.000 And then have An open portal, so you don't have to worry about them starving to death in the wild.

00:58:21.000 They can always come in and get food anytime they want, and that way you can kind of keep both things happening.

00:58:26.000 Like, they develop a relationship with these animals where it's an actual, real relationship.

00:58:31.000 It's not captivity.

00:58:32.000 They come because they want to get food, sort of like squirrels at the park or something.

00:58:36.000 This is exactly what animal rights people, if you will, and scientists these days are advocating for.

00:58:42.000 They want seaside sanctuaries where which these animals remain in human care and are available for people to watch.

00:58:48.000 Of course, you're going to have to stop the breeding.

00:58:51.000 The breeding's got to stop.

00:58:52.000 Ultimately, you want to phase this out completely.

00:58:54.000 Unless they want to fuck on their own in front of everybody.

00:58:56.000 Well, I'm going to guess that scientists are going to want to try to stop that.

00:59:00.000 That's what people are advocating for, really, is these seaside sanctuaries.

00:59:04.000 But SeaWorld keeps saying that, oh, there's so many pathogens in the water, and it's going to make these animals susceptible.

00:59:09.000 Again, it's all bullshit.

00:59:10.000 What does that mean?

00:59:11.000 Well, it means they think that they're going to become susceptible and be sick, or that the transition itself from captivity into this new environment is going to be too much to stomach.

00:59:18.000 Well, where was that logic when they were plucking them out of the ocean and putting them in these concrete tanks, right?

00:59:22.000 Well, they're going to have to adapt.

00:59:24.000 If they change the laws, And they make it so that that's just the only acceptable solution.

00:59:31.000 Then they'll adapt.

00:59:32.000 It's the only way.

00:59:33.000 There was a law introduced a couple of years ago.

00:59:36.000 His name was Assemblyman Richard Bloom.

00:59:38.000 And it was a bill that ultimately was going to retire all the orcas in San Diego to seaside sanctuaries.

00:59:44.000 The issue that was raised is that there are no seaside sanctuaries yet.

00:59:49.000 And so the bill ultimately died.

00:59:51.000 Well, fucking SeaWorld, use your money, bitch.

00:59:54.000 You have a giant facility.

00:59:55.000 You obviously made money off of those things.

00:59:59.000 How down are they right now?

01:00:01.000 SeaWorld?

01:00:02.000 Yeah.

01:00:02.000 Well, their net worth, or rather their company valuation when they did their initial public offering, was in and around $2 billion.

01:00:11.000 And basically that's down to, at one point it was down to $1.5, so now $1.7.

01:00:17.000 Animal activism, if you will, has really caused them a lot of harm financially.

01:00:21.000 That's pretty small, though.

01:00:23.000 They're still worth a lot of money.

01:00:25.000 Well, of course, they're still worth a lot of money.

01:00:27.000 But for a slave organization to be worth over a billion dollars, that's kind of fucked.

01:00:32.000 And then you could buy stock in the slave organization?

01:00:35.000 Yeah.

01:00:35.000 What the fuck, man?

01:00:36.000 I watch that stock price daily.

01:00:38.000 They're fucking slaves, man.

01:00:40.000 Have they rebounded?

01:00:41.000 Is that what it's showing?

01:00:42.000 It's up today.

01:00:42.000 Depending on where your time is.

01:00:43.000 They're up today.

01:00:44.000 That's because of us.

01:00:45.000 Yeah.

01:00:46.000 Well, look at yesterday.

01:00:47.000 Look at yesterday.

01:00:48.000 These people don't like me.

01:00:49.000 Fuck Joe Rogan.

01:00:51.000 Yeah, I'm going to get a lot of that, too.

01:00:52.000 Pump your money in the sea world.

01:00:53.000 Yeah, there's an investment.

01:00:55.000 Yeah, well, it's not going to be around in 20 or 30 years.

01:00:58.000 No, you're right.

01:00:59.000 It's not.

01:00:59.000 You're right.

01:01:00.000 The more we do research into the language of these things, too, the more scientists...

01:01:07.000 I mean, they've been trying to...

01:01:09.000 You know, John Lilly was trying to get them to speak...

01:01:13.000 Human.

01:01:13.000 He was trying to get them to speak human languages, like way back in, I guess it was like the 60s.

01:01:18.000 Yeah.

01:01:19.000 And he even set up an experiment where a woman lived in sort of this bizarre home where there was water.

01:01:29.000 She spent most of her time like waist deep in water.

01:01:31.000 Yeah, when she wasn't jagging off the dolphin.

01:01:33.000 Yeah, that was the problem.

01:01:34.000 She jacked off the dolphin.

01:01:36.000 Because dolphins get horny.

01:01:37.000 And she was like, well, this is a distraction.

01:01:39.000 Let me just jerk them off real quick.

01:01:40.000 And everybody's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:01:42.000 What the fuck did you just say?

01:01:44.000 Thankfully, we've come a long way since then.

01:01:46.000 Because clearly, that was just a question of the animal mimicking.

01:01:48.000 I mean, the idea that this animal is going to adopt the English language over and above.

01:01:51.000 Yeah.

01:01:51.000 But to be fair, the mimicry itself was pretty impressive.

01:01:55.000 And I've worked with dolphins, and I never actually tried to have the dolphin mimic my own sound, but with what I was watching, I watched the documentary recently as well, it was pretty impressive.

01:02:05.000 But the idea that that was teaching or trying to bridge the communication was pretty...

01:02:11.000 I mean, that's out there.

01:02:12.000 Well, it's all Lilly could come up with back then, at the time.

01:02:15.000 First of all, he was on acid almost every day.

01:02:18.000 I mean, Lilly was a fucking maniac.

01:02:20.000 He'd take ketamine, and he was the guy that invented the isolation tank.

01:02:25.000 I mean, which is one of my favorite things in the world.

01:02:27.000 Yeah, I've yet to do it.

01:02:28.000 I can't wait to, though.

01:02:29.000 How long are you here for?

01:02:31.000 I'm here till I leave Friday morning.

01:02:34.000 I can set it up.

01:02:35.000 Hell yeah, I would love that.

01:02:36.000 We'll set you up with the float lab.

01:02:38.000 There's a new place in Pasadena that just opened up that's the largest place in the world.

01:02:42.000 Yeah, very interested.

01:02:43.000 Yeah, we'll hook it up.

01:02:45.000 Fantastic, appreciate that.

01:02:45.000 What part of town are you staying in while you're here?

01:02:47.000 We're gonna be in Venice Beach.

01:02:48.000 Jesus Christ, that's where the float lab is.

01:02:51.000 Oh, how about that?

01:02:51.000 Dude, that's perfect.

01:02:53.000 We're gonna call them right after this and we're gonna set it up.

01:02:55.000 Oh, I'm ecstatic.

01:02:56.000 Because Crash is the best.

01:02:58.000 I've heard that.

01:02:59.000 He's been on the podcast before.

01:03:00.000 He's a fucking maniac.

01:03:01.000 I love him.

01:03:02.000 And he kept the float business alive with innovation back when no one did.

01:03:08.000 I had a guy who was fixing my tank.

01:03:11.000 And, you know, I had an old Samadhi tank, which was one of the original tanks.

01:03:16.000 And it was starting to deteriorate a little bit, because I'd had it for a while.

01:03:19.000 And this guy told me, like, there's this crazy guy in Venice that's making these tanks.

01:03:24.000 It's just, they're just so much better than anybody else's.

01:03:26.000 Little pods, is it?

01:03:27.000 Or, like, full square rooms?

01:03:28.000 I mean...

01:03:29.000 No, you get into, like, it looks like a small meat locker.

01:03:32.000 That's what it looks like.

01:03:33.000 You open a door and you climb in.

01:03:34.000 He has a bunch of different models.

01:03:36.000 You have some that you've got to kind of bend over when you get in, but mine is, like, seven feet tall and, like, nine feet long.

01:03:44.000 It's huge.

01:03:45.000 I've heard you say that you find it, like, incredibly therapeutic and just clear your mind, take you to places where you can think clearly.

01:03:50.000 I could definitely benefit from some of that.

01:03:52.000 It's great for that.

01:03:53.000 It's great physically for your body, too.

01:03:54.000 My back opens up and relaxes.

01:03:57.000 I feel like I can pop it just by stretching my shoulders up.

01:04:01.000 It just goes pop, pop, pop, because everything's just relaxing.

01:04:04.000 It's a great source of magnesium because there's a thousand pounds of Epsom salts in the water.

01:04:10.000 My older one was like 800 pounds, but the bigger one requires more.

01:04:13.000 So it's a thousand pounds of salt.

01:04:15.000 And that Epsom salt, when your body's floating in that, your skin is absorbing the magnesium.

01:04:20.000 Super healthy for you.

01:04:22.000 You just feel great.

01:04:23.000 You get out of there, you feel great.

01:04:25.000 And if you go in there like I do, you trip your balls off in there.

01:04:29.000 I went on mushrooms on New Year's Eve.

01:04:31.000 Took mushrooms.

01:04:32.000 I was cleaning my office.

01:04:33.000 And I'm like, look what I got here.

01:04:35.000 Do I do this?

01:04:36.000 So I ate the mushrooms.

01:04:37.000 And then I didn't take a big dose, but I took enough where I started to get fucking really weird.

01:04:42.000 I waited about an hour until I couldn't take it anymore.

01:04:45.000 I was like, I can't be around people anymore.

01:04:47.000 I gotta get in the tank.

01:04:48.000 And then I got in the tank.

01:04:48.000 And the tank was good to you?

01:04:50.000 It was wonderful.

01:04:51.000 It was embracing.

01:04:53.000 It just sent me on a voyage.

01:04:55.000 It just sent me on a voyage through my mind and got me in this very positive groove.

01:05:01.000 It was a good trip because it was a New Year's Eve trip.

01:05:06.000 It was like New Year's Eve's bullshit, really, at the end of the day.

01:05:09.000 Who cares?

01:05:10.000 You know, it's just another day, man.

01:05:12.000 But rituals, as I'm getting older and more experienced, I used to reject anything that was established, because my life wasn't so good when I was growing up, and I thought that everything that everybody wanted and everything that everybody's working for was all bullshit.

01:05:28.000 Degrees are bullshit, and rituals are bullshit, and fuck you, I'm a rebel.

01:05:32.000 I can appreciate that perspective.

01:05:33.000 I'm sure you can.

01:05:36.000 But as I get older I recognize the benefit in like a new beginning in your mind like this year I am going to do this this year I'm going to like how many people It's hard for people to I actually retweeted something today from Neil Strauss who's a really brilliant guy and It's an article that he wrote about strategies and systems that you can set up and To make sure you don't fall into the same traps and sabotage yourself.

01:06:02.000 Same cycles.

01:06:03.000 Yeah, which a lot of people do.

01:06:05.000 But you don't have to.

01:06:08.000 The idea...

01:06:10.000 Here it is right there.

01:06:11.000 Why you need a Ulysses strategy for 2016. People have this thing in their mind that this new day and this new time is going to be the start of their new diet.

01:06:25.000 They're going to quit smoking.

01:06:26.000 They're going to start exercising.

01:06:28.000 They're going to get their life in order.

01:06:30.000 And they go at it with these earnest intentions, but very few continue that process.

01:06:36.000 And the problem being We're creatures of habit and we have these comfort zones that we've sort of set up.

01:06:42.000 And when you set up those comfort zones, you set up these established patterns, it's very easy to fall right back into them.

01:06:50.000 It's very easy to be a lazy bitch.

01:06:51.000 Wasn't it John Lilly that was studying the different levels of consciousness?

01:06:54.000 He himself said that there are these cycles that you have to try to make yourself conscious of and try to break these cycles.

01:07:02.000 I know I myself find myself too often sitting in a bathtub feeling...

01:07:08.000 Pretty down on things.

01:07:09.000 I'm like, you know, maybe if I get out of the fucking bathtub, go for a jog or something, I wouldn't feel like this, right?

01:07:14.000 It definitely would help.

01:07:15.000 Going for a jog is one of the best pieces of advice anybody could ever give you.

01:07:19.000 If you ever have something that's fucking with you, just go for a run.

01:07:22.000 Get those endorphins flowing, get that blood pumping, and put things into perspective.

01:07:25.000 Your mind starts to change immediately.

01:07:27.000 The language that your mind beats the shit out of you with changes, and suddenly you start getting resolves and answers to your problems versus dwelling on them.

01:07:36.000 Myself, personally, I have gone for runs, and I don't run that much, and I ride my bike amidst the darker depths of hell, and every time I come back saying, thank God you went and did something, right?

01:07:49.000 Well, I think we associate, as a human being, we associate dilemmas and physical problems, like issues, like bills or...

01:08:01.000 Lawsuits in your case.

01:08:02.000 We associate those things with a physical thing because our bodies are used to any fear or danger from the time we were monkeys.

01:08:13.000 It's always been a physical danger.

01:08:15.000 There's never been like a social issue until recently.

01:08:18.000 I mean, until the last few thousand years when human beings started talking to each other.

01:08:22.000 The real problems that we had, they weren't fucking bills.

01:08:26.000 It's more instinctual.

01:08:27.000 Yeah, it's like there's a physical problem.

01:08:29.000 So when you develop stress and anxiety, you have this physical response to that, like, holy shit, what's going on?

01:08:35.000 And then you don't do anything with that physical response.

01:08:39.000 That physical response never gets fed.

01:08:41.000 You never run, you never exercise, you never exert.

01:08:43.000 And so your body just gets into a deeper and deeper level of funk and stress.

01:08:48.000 And the physical exertion, although that seems like a meathead thing to say, like, yeah, just gotta go to the fucking gym, pussy!

01:08:54.000 Fucking walk it off!

01:08:56.000 But you really do.

01:08:57.000 You really do.

01:08:58.000 And if you do do that, you will feel better.

01:09:00.000 Like some of my favorite people are people that do jujitsu.

01:09:03.000 Because jujitsu is such a life and death struggle on a regular basis with people you love and care about.

01:09:09.000 It's a bizarre thing.

01:09:10.000 Like, you know, when you roll with people that you love, like you're friends with, you slap hands, and they try to fucking kill each other.

01:09:17.000 And you're going to war.

01:09:18.000 I mean, it's exhausting.

01:09:20.000 So when it's over, you're drained.

01:09:22.000 So otherwise, Bullshit of regular bullshit just seems way less significant.

01:09:27.000 You still have to deal with it.

01:09:28.000 You're still a person.

01:09:29.000 You still live in the real world.

01:09:30.000 Still have taxes.

01:09:31.000 Still have problems.

01:09:32.000 Still have lawsuits.

01:09:33.000 Yeah.

01:09:34.000 Your situation is very, very extreme.

01:09:37.000 My situation is extreme.

01:09:38.000 In fact, if you don't mind, I wouldn't mind sort of offering a perspective of just how fucked things are.

01:09:42.000 Yeah, please do.

01:09:43.000 So shortly after I was on the podcast, and I don't know if you recall, you probably don't, you see a lot of tweets, but I tweeted you a video of the owner of Marineland, who's the man that's suing myself and a number of other people to try to stifle our advocacy and essentially punish us.

01:09:58.000 And the video was of him driving past our home.

01:10:02.000 And...

01:10:03.000 You know, I uploaded it to YouTube and whatnot.

01:10:05.000 And then shortly thereafter, there were more videos.

01:10:07.000 And then neighbors started taking photos when I wasn't home.

01:10:10.000 So he drives by and just threatens you?

01:10:12.000 Slows down.

01:10:13.000 Well, I assume it's to intimidate my girlfriend and I. He has a history of doing this.

01:10:17.000 And I want to touch a little bit on that in a moment.

01:10:20.000 But I just want to give my example to begin with.

01:10:24.000 Do you have those videos on YouTube right now?

01:10:25.000 Yeah.

01:10:26.000 Do we see it?

01:10:26.000 Sure.

01:10:27.000 What's your channel?

01:10:28.000 I wouldn't mind showing you a couple of them.

01:10:29.000 Just Google John Holder, J-O-H-N-H-O-L-E-R, and you'll get videos, footage.

01:10:37.000 I mean, there's a pretty elaborate history.

01:10:38.000 We've unearthed a lot about sort of how he operates.

01:10:41.000 I'm getting a little nervous talking about this, Joe, right now, because I know the consequences of which are going to cost.

01:10:45.000 A, a lot of money and cause a lot of anxiety, where I'm going with this story.

01:10:48.000 Well, when does this fucking lawsuit get resolved?

01:10:52.000 Here's the video.

01:10:52.000 We're going to watch the video real quick.

01:10:54.000 So this is you looking out the curtains.

01:10:56.000 So I live at the end of a dead-end street, and across from me is the water.

01:11:00.000 It's a beautiful place.

01:11:01.000 I love it.

01:11:01.000 He's trying to take from me my home, essentially.

01:11:03.000 But I saw him come by, and he stopped in front of my house.

01:11:06.000 I armed myself with my old Blackberry camera.

01:11:08.000 He went down the end of the road, and you see him now coming back.

01:11:10.000 So he speeds up, and right here you'll see it slows right down.

01:11:14.000 And he just wants to intimidate.

01:11:15.000 Of course, he has no idea that I'm there.

01:11:17.000 Of course, I present myself and I'm just like, what you want, bruh?

01:11:20.000 And then, there he goes.

01:11:22.000 So he drives off when you come near?

01:11:24.000 He drives off when we...

01:11:25.000 Oh, what a pussy.

01:11:27.000 Yeah, well, that's the same pussy you like to put a lot of bullets in.

01:11:30.000 Well, he shot those dogs, if you don't recall my telling you.

01:11:33.000 A couple of dogs wandered off to his property.

01:11:35.000 Boom, he filled them with shotgun pellets.

01:11:38.000 Anyways...

01:11:40.000 Do you know for sure that that's his truck?

01:11:42.000 Absolutely.

01:11:42.000 In fact, we got him in his new vehicle as well, license plate, the whole works.

01:11:45.000 The police, in fact, set up a surveillance camera, two of them.

01:11:49.000 They caught him independently, and don't quote me, but I'm going to call it 12 times.

01:11:53.000 The police refused to lay any charges because they said, A, driving past someone's home isn't technically a criminal harassment, despite the fact that we were like, look, the man's suing us.

01:12:02.000 He's dangerous.

01:12:03.000 I mean, I knew the man, at least historically, to have had a shotgun in his vehicle.

01:12:08.000 He's got a lot of reason to not like myself and my girlfriend, who's on any given time alone in my home.

01:12:13.000 So nonetheless, the police wouldn't do anything.

01:12:17.000 We took that information and went to a Justice of the Peace to try to lay what's called a private charge.

01:12:22.000 Not a charge, but we just want him, a summons, to come into the court and explain this behavior.

01:12:27.000 This is normally a 30-day process.

01:12:31.000 Marineland's lawyers managed to get in an appeal to the summons, which is largely unprecedented.

01:12:36.000 I mean, I guess people with money can skirt the law, but nonetheless, it took a year and a half The judge ultimately decided that this issue shouldn't be decided in the criminal court.

01:12:51.000 In fact, it should be dealt with in the civil matters.

01:12:54.000 So he quashed the summons.

01:12:55.000 So the owner didn't have to come and explain himself.

01:12:59.000 And now, I'm waiting any given day now, because the lawyers already informed my other lawyers, they're seeking a cost motion where I'm to pay the legal fees, which they're claiming upwards of $100,000, To try to get this summons against him.

01:13:16.000 His stalking leads to my trying to lay a private charge, if you will, or whatever.

01:13:21.000 Private summons.

01:13:22.000 He gets it quashed, and now he wants to put me on the hook for his legal fees.

01:13:28.000 So he's just trying to drain you financially.

01:13:30.000 It's a war of attrition, and it's like he's just trying to crush anyone that's showing any type of opposition.

01:13:36.000 Now, I know the last time you were on, you had like a GoFundMe or something like that, and people contributed.

01:13:41.000 How do we help you?

01:13:42.000 What does that address?

01:13:45.000 So recently I had to retain a new lawyer.

01:13:47.000 Two of my lawyers have left, and these were ultimately the ones that were working really cost-effectively.

01:13:55.000 They're gone.

01:13:55.000 So I had to retain a new lawyer.

01:13:58.000 I don't ask for a lot of money from people, but I do ask for a lot of people.

01:14:02.000 As long as we've got money and our lawyers can work, this lawsuit has to run its course, and at some point, and the judge has already said, has already criticized Mariland for taking as long as they have.

01:14:11.000 Now, Mariland wants to say, well, this is the behavior of the people, of the defendants.

01:14:15.000 The behavior being that we tried to seek some protection from this man that took a year and a half.

01:14:21.000 The lawyers are trying to allege that it's our behavior that's delaying this process.

01:14:25.000 And yet, here we are, two years after I was here, and not a single day later, of course, significant legal fees, but we recently...

01:14:33.000 We got a very generous contribution from some animal rights organizations that are running little fundraisers for us.

01:14:41.000 We used to have what you would call a benefactor, which was Sam Simon.

01:14:45.000 He's co-creator for The Simpsons.

01:14:46.000 He was giving us a lot of money.

01:14:47.000 Unfortunately, recently he passed away.

01:14:49.000 So that sort of ended.

01:14:50.000 But yeah, largely it's the public support.

01:14:53.000 This is really quite unprecedented to have a litigation funded by crowdfunding.

01:14:59.000 Yeah.

01:14:59.000 It's really unheard of.

01:15:00.000 Well, it's an important one.

01:15:02.000 So what is the address and how do people get...

01:15:04.000 We're going to put the address on YouTube.

01:15:06.000 So if you're listening to this on YouTube, it will be in the description of the podcast.

01:15:12.000 And I'm also going to put it on Twitter.

01:15:14.000 And so we'll have it as available as possible.

01:15:18.000 If we can put it in the iTunes description of the podcast, we'll put it in that too.

01:15:23.000 What is the address and how do people get to it?

01:15:27.000 SaveSmooshy.com.

01:15:27.000 Smooshy being the walrus that I had the anomalous relationship with.

01:15:31.000 So it's S-A-V-E-S-M-O-O-S-H-I.com.

01:15:36.000 So again, I'm not funding just my own lawsuit.

01:15:39.000 I stuck my neck out and said, I'm going to pay for all these lawsuits.

01:15:41.000 Some years ago, and I'd mentioned before, that I won Wipeout Canada.

01:15:45.000 So there was a period where I actually had a good chunk of change in the bank.

01:15:48.000 So when these lawsuits started to fly, I just started cutting checks.

01:15:51.000 Just start cutting checks.

01:15:52.000 Well, that didn't last very long, right?

01:15:53.000 Right.

01:15:54.000 So really, it is the support of the people.

01:15:55.000 But if you don't mind my touching a little more...

01:15:57.000 So here's the page.

01:15:58.000 Oh, cool.

01:15:59.000 So SaveSmooshy...

01:16:00.000 No, that's SaveSmooshy.org.

01:16:02.000 Go to the.com one.

01:16:04.000 Yeah.

01:16:04.000 What's the difference?

01:16:05.000 The difference is that was just a website that I had created for sort of like ongoing fundraising.

01:16:10.000 Why doesn't it not exist?

01:16:13.000 SaveSmooshy...

01:16:13.000 No, put it all together in one word there.

01:16:15.000 SaveSmooshy.com.

01:16:17.000 It did.

01:16:18.000 It didn't work.

01:16:18.000 No, it should.

01:16:19.000 That motherfucker closed down your website.

01:16:22.000 Oh, he's trying to shut down my Twitter.

01:16:23.000 Never mind.

01:16:24.000 Is he?

01:16:24.000 Okay, here we go.

01:16:25.000 SaveSmooshy.com.

01:16:26.000 What is it?

01:16:27.000 It needed a www?

01:16:30.000 Well, it forwards to a GoFundMe.

01:16:33.000 That's probably why it needed a www.

01:16:36.000 Defend Animal Abuse Whistleblowers.

01:16:39.000 So right now, you've got some donations, and there's a donate button.

01:16:44.000 You can share it on Facebook, and...

01:16:47.000 And let's fucking pump this up, folks.

01:16:50.000 Just to stress, that's in Canadian currency, not to scare anyone, because a lot of people go over and are just like, well, what's this C next to the donation button?

01:16:56.000 Why don't you guys just stop using your bullshit money and use ours?

01:16:59.000 Cut it out.

01:17:00.000 It'd be nice.

01:17:00.000 Yeah, that's for damn sure.

01:17:01.000 You're connected to us.

01:17:02.000 Let's cut the shit.

01:17:04.000 God damn it.

01:17:05.000 Mexico, too.

01:17:06.000 Cut the shit with your pesos.

01:17:08.000 If I can just touch on a story that I think it's important in the realm of public opinion or rather consciousness to know of, but this isn't the first time that the owner of Marineland has stalked and intimidated people.

01:17:20.000 In fact, some years ago, a woman named Paula Millard was living in a trailer park that the owner of Marineland actually owned.

01:17:28.000 That was across the street from the park, and he had promised them all that he was not going to move them or displace them, and this was going to be their home for a long time.

01:17:36.000 A lot of retirees there, people put some permanent investment in their properties.

01:17:40.000 Well, ultimately he did elect to kick everyone out.

01:17:43.000 He had the city's support, which is not, again, we're up against a lot of forces, if you will.

01:17:49.000 Well, one woman was having none of that.

01:17:51.000 She was refusing to move, and the owner would repeatedly drive by and intimidate her.

01:17:56.000 And ultimately what she did was she had written on the wall, she had written, John Holer, may you get exactly what you deserve tenfold.

01:18:03.000 And then she thereafter committed suicide.

01:18:06.000 Yeah.

01:18:09.000 I think it's important to tell that story.

01:18:11.000 It's because...

01:18:14.000 It illuminates sort of...

01:18:16.000 Who he is.

01:18:17.000 Who he is.

01:18:18.000 Allegedly.

01:18:18.000 Allegedly, of course.

01:18:19.000 I have to say that.

01:18:20.000 Yeah, me too.

01:18:22.000 Well, we're going to help you, man.

01:18:23.000 We're going to pump this fucker up.

01:18:24.000 Joe, I've said it before and I'll say it again.

01:18:26.000 We're really still in this game because of you.

01:18:28.000 And heartfelt appreciation for having me back on.

01:18:31.000 I can't tell you.

01:18:32.000 And the timing is right because we have a bunch of different motion dates coming up.

01:18:36.000 I appreciate that, but I also appreciate what you're doing.

01:18:40.000 I think that guys like you are super important for this.

01:18:43.000 You, in particular, you're probably one of the most important because this whole thing that we're experiencing right now is essentially our civilization is awakening to the horrors of the past.

01:18:54.000 And we're doing something that's really fucked up and not right.

01:18:58.000 And we've been doing it for a long time, so we think it's okay because we've been doing it for a long time.

01:19:02.000 And this is sort of the same thing that they experienced with slavery.

01:19:06.000 I mean, slavery had existed for a long fucking time, and it took a bunch...

01:19:10.000 I mean, people think, like, you're exaggerating.

01:19:12.000 This is not slavery.

01:19:13.000 These are animals.

01:19:14.000 No, they're insanely intelligent animals.

01:19:17.000 They're so much different than a fucking puppy.

01:19:21.000 They're so much different than a squirrel.

01:19:23.000 They have a cerebral cortex that's 40% larger than human beings.

01:19:27.000 We don't know why.

01:19:28.000 We don't know what they're saying.

01:19:31.000 We know they have an insanely complex language, but we don't know what the meaning behind the sounds are.

01:19:38.000 We don't know.

01:19:39.000 We've recognized dialects.

01:19:41.000 They have different dialects in different areas.

01:19:43.000 We know that they speak differently in different parts of the world.

01:19:47.000 I can personally offer perspective of having had a really strong relationship with an animal.

01:19:51.000 Like my anomalous relationship with Smooshy the walrus, and I'll just do a quick summary of it, is that she at one point believed that I was her mother.

01:19:59.000 I mean, she still does.

01:20:00.000 It's innate now.

01:20:00.000 She thinks that I'm her mother.

01:20:02.000 I'm tattooed on her brain, right?

01:20:03.000 I've imprinted on her.

01:20:05.000 So I got to appreciate...

01:20:07.000 I think?

01:20:24.000 I got to learn what it was like to teach an animal to have a sense of humor, for instance.

01:20:28.000 I mean, this walrus has a sense of humor.

01:20:30.000 This walrus knows me intimately, whether I raise my voice or I lower it.

01:20:33.000 She knows me in a sense that...

01:20:36.000 Like a dog.

01:20:37.000 No, I'm going to say far beyond a dog.

01:20:38.000 I'm going to say far beyond a dog.

01:20:40.000 This is an animal that...

01:20:42.000 Could appreciate when there was real threat against me.

01:20:45.000 We used to joke around, and the way that we discovered that she was so protective of me that people would come really close to me.

01:20:48.000 She would beat the snot out of these people.

01:20:50.000 I mean, she'd come in like a fucking 200-pound bowling ball and displace you.

01:20:52.000 But she knew when I was messing with someone or when someone had grabbed me and it appeared to be a little more violent.

01:20:58.000 I mean, her reaction- Did someone grab you in a violent way?

01:21:00.000 The owner's son, in fact, and, uh, yeah.

01:21:03.000 The owner's son came over one time.

01:21:05.000 He just didn't believe what was going on.

01:21:06.000 And he grabbed me.

01:21:07.000 And he didn't grab me in a smooth and fun way.

01:21:09.000 He grabbed me and shook me.

01:21:10.000 Smushy never forgot his face.

01:21:12.000 There was a gate between us.

01:21:14.000 So she smashed up against those bars really aggressively, harping on them, yelling and everything else.

01:21:18.000 And even in the weeks and months to come...

01:21:21.000 Every time he'd come even remotely close to me or in the room, she was ready to pounce.

01:21:26.000 It was amazing.

01:21:27.000 How fast does a walrus pounce?

01:21:29.000 Can you call it pouncing?

01:21:31.000 I wouldn't call it pouncing.

01:21:32.000 They kind of waddle, right?

01:21:33.000 They're pretty fast.

01:21:34.000 They're a heavy animal.

01:21:35.000 Actually, I can say that I've, and not just myself, and other former trainers, have actually rescued the owner of Marineland from walruses that were about to attack him.

01:21:45.000 There's a video on YouTube, which is actually hilarious, where he's out on stage, obviously...

01:21:51.000 Yelling at a trainer to bring out more animals, everything.

01:21:52.000 And the walrus breaks from him and starts going towards the owner.

01:21:55.000 And he turns around and starts booking.

01:21:57.000 And the walrus stops.

01:21:59.000 And he turns around and he grabs his water and he throws the water.

01:22:01.000 And then the walrus goes and he sort of tucks away behind this sort of safety door.

01:22:04.000 And I'm just like...

01:22:05.000 What a cunt.

01:22:05.000 I couldn't wait for him to get knocked down, man.

01:22:07.000 Oh, it didn't happen.

01:22:08.000 Whatever.

01:22:09.000 Ugh.

01:22:23.000 We're good to go.

01:22:29.000 He's handing leaflets with information.

01:22:30.000 Well, they have a conflict.

01:22:32.000 They have sort of a coming together.

01:22:34.000 And John Holder, in plain English, threatens to stab him and bury him.

01:22:39.000 And of course, the activist, Mike Garrett, he's a fantastic guy, was...

01:22:45.000 I'm assuming he tried to keep some sense and keep things as light as possible, but John just has a conniption.

01:22:51.000 He's yelling his arms and up.

01:22:53.000 I mean, John's a little guy, right?

01:22:54.000 He's got what I call the little big man where he's just...

01:22:57.000 But anyways, he goes off...

01:22:58.000 And this is all because the guy is protesting against Marine Land?

01:23:01.000 Well, we use the word protesting, but more than anything, he's handing information.

01:23:04.000 He's handing a history of Marine Land, but it happens to be at the end of the park on public property, but nonetheless, you know, the city obliged and...

01:23:14.000 Lease the land to them.

01:23:15.000 I mean, it is what it is.

01:23:16.000 Marineland's operated for 53 years above the law.

01:23:20.000 There was no laws.

01:23:21.000 There was nothing.

01:23:22.000 Now there are some, thankfully.

01:23:23.000 Things are turning slowly, but...

01:23:26.000 If you can find that video, if not, that's alright.

01:23:28.000 Joe, while I've got...

01:23:29.000 While we're just here, I'd like to show you this.

01:23:31.000 Oh yeah, let's take a look.

01:23:33.000 So here he's like, oh look, we're hugging, and then here...

01:23:36.000 That little guy's the owner?

01:23:38.000 That little guy's the owner, and that's his hired goon right there.

01:23:42.000 Hold up.

01:23:43.000 All it is is information, that's all.

01:23:45.000 All it is is information, sir.

01:23:47.000 You want to be quick?

01:23:49.000 All right, have a nice day.

01:23:50.000 See, John, all we're doing is asking.

01:23:52.000 People don't have to take it.

01:23:54.000 We're going to take it.

01:23:56.000 You know nothing but an idiot.

01:23:59.000 A whale.

01:24:00.000 An idiot.

01:24:01.000 If you called me a whale earlier, let's stick with the program.

01:24:03.000 Yeah, idiot.

01:24:04.000 I can see John getting a little furious here.

01:24:06.000 Thank God John doesn't have a knife or else he'd bury me right here, as he said.

01:24:12.000 When did he say that, though?

01:24:13.000 Oh, he said it earlier in the video.

01:24:15.000 Oh, let me hear the beginning where you said he'd bury him.

01:24:19.000 This is the closest I've ever been to evil in my life.

01:24:22.000 Like, literally.

01:24:23.000 Come on, he's just doing his job.

01:24:24.000 You're lucky you don't have a knife.

01:24:26.000 I'm lucky you don't have a knife.

01:24:27.000 So you would stab me if you had a knife.

01:24:30.000 Wow.

01:24:31.000 Oh, you'd kill me right here.

01:24:33.000 You would bury me right here.

01:24:34.000 You wouldn't even bother to put me in the mass graves.

01:24:37.000 Come on up, folks.

01:24:38.000 It's just information.

01:24:40.000 That's all it is.

01:24:41.000 Just information.

01:24:43.000 John doesn't want to stab me and bury me here.

01:24:45.000 Just take the leaflets.

01:24:46.000 He's a great guy.

01:24:47.000 Mike's a great guy.

01:24:48.000 I try to support him as well.

01:24:49.000 He's being sued, of course.

01:24:51.000 He's actually having his wages garnished because Marineland, what they do is they use these lawsuits and then they propose all these different motions.

01:24:58.000 So it's like sort of a function inside the lawsuit.

01:25:01.000 Well, what happens during these motions is it can go either way, right?

01:25:04.000 A lawyer can win a motion against another lawyer, whether it be a bullshit lawsuit or not.

01:25:08.000 But what happens is in that process, there becomes a cost award.

01:25:12.000 So unfortunately for Mike, he got a cost award against him and he couldn't afford whatever the price was.

01:25:16.000 Of course, Marineland will say an inflated price to say, well, this cost us $25,000 to have to bring him in here.

01:25:21.000 And so the judge awarded $10,000 or so.

01:25:23.000 Mike's having his wages garnished now.

01:25:25.000 This is not a man who broke the law.

01:25:27.000 This is a man who opposed the policies and the practices of Marineland.

01:25:31.000 And this is because of this right here?

01:25:33.000 Because of that right there.

01:25:35.000 So he's having his wages garnished to the tune of how much?

01:25:38.000 I think he said 30% a month.

01:25:40.000 For how long?

01:25:41.000 How much does he owe?

01:25:42.000 He still owes quite a bit of money.

01:25:44.000 How much does he owe?

01:25:44.000 I think he owes in the range of $6,000 or $7,000 at this point.

01:25:47.000 And he just lost his lawyer.

01:25:48.000 We actually had similar lawyers.

01:25:50.000 He's looking for a lawyer.

01:25:51.000 So this is a public plea.

01:25:52.000 If there are any lawyers in Canada that are looking to make a name for themselves and help ourselves or Mike Garrett, like, yes, please get involved.

01:25:58.000 And if you do help, I'll tweet it out.

01:26:00.000 If you do help, I'll put it up online and I'll let people know that you're doing a good thing.

01:26:04.000 Joe, while you're here, I just want you to take a look at this print we've had made.

01:26:09.000 This is from just an absolute sick graffiti artist named Ewok out of Brooklyn.

01:26:14.000 It says, Save Smooshy Fuck Marineland.

01:26:16.000 Is that that t-shirt here?

01:26:17.000 This is this t-shirt that I'm giving to you, so I'll hold it up.

01:26:19.000 Yeah, this is courtesy of Lofty Towers.

01:26:21.000 This is a place in Niagara Falls that generously printed it for us.

01:26:25.000 And then, of course, Ewok won.

01:26:26.000 You've got to see this guy's work.

01:26:27.000 It's fantastic.

01:26:29.000 And it's basically, if you look at it, You've got the walrus smooshy who's basically giving the finger to what appears to be an old man with a shirt that says, bury me with my money, who's got some shackles around it.

01:26:41.000 It sort of looks like it says, fuck Marieland on the bottom.

01:26:43.000 I don't know if it actually does.

01:26:45.000 So that's the old dude, supposedly?

01:26:47.000 I don't think.

01:26:48.000 I don't know.

01:26:48.000 I have no idea.

01:26:48.000 Doesn't look like him, right?

01:26:50.000 Good.

01:26:50.000 Totally not him.

01:26:51.000 No, can't possibly be him.

01:26:52.000 Definitely not slave.

01:26:54.000 But there's a nice shirt for you to wear when you're doing some gardening or raising your chickens in the back.

01:26:58.000 I'll use that for sure.

01:27:01.000 It's much appreciated.

01:27:02.000 Fuck, man.

01:27:03.000 I hate hearing stories like that.

01:27:04.000 I hate hearing what's ultimately human failure.

01:27:09.000 That's like a civilization failure.

01:27:13.000 A societal, cultural failure.

01:27:15.000 This old, creepy fuck that's getting away with...

01:27:19.000 I mean, you could just tell in that video he's disgusting.

01:27:22.000 This whole thing is disgusting.

01:27:24.000 This guy wants to continue his slave business.

01:27:27.000 He's out there himself getting his own fucking hands dirty.

01:27:30.000 He's worth more money than I can even conceive, and yet all he wants is the power.

01:27:35.000 Well, he's so old, too.

01:27:37.000 Like, if I was worth that much money, does he have a wife?

01:27:39.000 He has a wonderful wife, in fact, yes.

01:27:40.000 Wonderful.

01:27:41.000 Yeah, she's a very nice kind of person.

01:27:43.000 I was gonna say, if I didn't...

01:27:45.000 Costa Rica.

01:27:46.000 Yeah, exactly, right?

01:27:47.000 It would just be all about hookers and coke until the heart stops.

01:27:49.000 If he likes to hunt, you'd think he'd just be out hunting steady.

01:27:51.000 Like, just go do the thing that you like the most.

01:27:53.000 But what he likes the most, what appears to be, is to be a tyrant.

01:27:55.000 You know, I watched that episode of you and Lance Armstrong, and I thought it was really great.

01:27:59.000 It really humanized the situation he was in.

01:28:01.000 But the thing that he expressed the most, the regret, was when he ultimately was...

01:28:07.000 I forget the word he used, but like...

01:28:11.000 Throwing all these lawsuits against people.

01:28:13.000 Yeah, he fucked up.

01:28:13.000 He fucked up.

01:28:15.000 That was a fuck up.

01:28:16.000 But that was some great regret that he expressed.

01:28:17.000 If he hadn't done that, I would be 100% in support of him.

01:28:20.000 That's the, I mean, because, you know, it's like, have you ever seen the Bill Burr bit where he's on Conan where he talked about it?

01:28:25.000 It's hilarious.

01:28:25.000 I haven't, but I'm learning about Bill Burr now, actually, and I find his comedy amazing.

01:28:29.000 It's one of the best ever.

01:28:30.000 That new show that he's got.

01:28:32.000 F is for Family.

01:28:33.000 It's so great.

01:28:34.000 I watched an episode the other night.

01:28:35.000 It's really good.

01:28:36.000 It's on Netflix, folks, if you want to watch it.

01:28:37.000 It's an animated series called F is for Family.

01:28:39.000 And he's just a great guy.

01:28:41.000 He's the real deal.

01:28:42.000 Bill Burr is the real deal.

01:28:44.000 He's just one of the best guys ever.

01:28:46.000 And he had this amazing bit about Lance Armstrong being that, like, you know, basically, his words were, our psychopath beat your psychopath.

01:28:55.000 Like, the whole fucking sports on steroids.

01:28:57.000 They're all on drugs.

01:28:58.000 And it's true.

01:28:59.000 He became the face, unfortunately.

01:29:00.000 He was pegged for being the guy.

01:29:02.000 And I mean, he had all the accolades.

01:29:03.000 He had the image, which also means he had the most to lose.

01:29:06.000 But the thing that he expressed most was he regretted ruining people's lives.

01:29:10.000 I mean, he was trying to keep this whole thing going.

01:29:13.000 This guy, what he's doing is just normal.

01:29:16.000 It's what people do.

01:29:18.000 When people have established power, they try to protect it.

01:29:22.000 He recognizes all the benefits that he's had for that power, and he doesn't want to step down and relinquish it.

01:29:28.000 And also, if he did, he would have to somehow or another admit that what he was doing is wrong.

01:29:32.000 And I assume that Marineland is still making money.

01:29:35.000 It still makes some money, a little bit.

01:29:38.000 Is it down?

01:29:38.000 Attendance is down significantly.

01:29:40.000 And funny because tourism is up in Niagara Falls.

01:29:42.000 But I think if you guys really want to get a good perspective, there was a podcast that I was recently on called Canada Land.

01:29:49.000 And it's a big podcast.

01:29:51.000 It's hosted by an investigative journalist, Jesse Brown.

01:29:54.000 And he's very meticulous and very thorough in his work.

01:29:58.000 And he's detailed this exchange between he and Marineland's marketing.

01:30:02.000 No one put a name on it.

01:30:03.000 It's got to be Marineland's lawyers.

01:30:04.000 I don't know.

01:30:05.000 But nonetheless, if you want to see how they operate and how far they're willing to go to suppress what I say and the information that we provide, do go to the Candleland podcast and check it out.

01:30:16.000 They've threatened to sue him.

01:30:17.000 They've vowed to sue to what they call judgment, and that's a quote.

01:30:22.000 But that's just the way they operate.

01:30:23.000 If you, I mean, you yourself, Joe, and I hate to say it, but it would be a dream if they threatened to sue you.

01:30:27.000 It's not gonna happen, but...

01:30:29.000 Why would they sue me?

01:30:30.000 First of all, I'm a fucking American.

01:30:33.000 You can't sue me with your goofy kangaroo court.

01:30:35.000 He's suing Americans.

01:30:36.000 Because I'll tell you to suck my dick.

01:30:37.000 He's suing Americans right now.

01:30:38.000 I'm trying to threaten him.

01:30:39.000 Look at that.

01:30:40.000 And I'll drive by his house.

01:30:41.000 I'd fuck.

01:30:42.000 How about that?

01:30:43.000 I'll just say nice things to him.

01:30:45.000 I won't even threaten him.

01:30:47.000 Yeah, that Canada Latin podcast really details it all.

01:30:50.000 It was really well done.

01:30:51.000 I just think the whole thing, it's eventually, when you look at it historically, I think my friend Amber Lyon had a great quote when she was talking about when she used to work for CNN. I love this quote.

01:31:06.000 It's being on the wrong side of history.

01:31:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:31:09.000 And that's what this guy is.

01:31:10.000 He's on the wrong side of history.

01:31:11.000 When it all boils down, you're going to look like an ugly monster.

01:31:16.000 Yeah, I don't know what type of legacy he's trying to protect at this point.

01:31:18.000 And the funny thing is, all he's doing is making lawyers rich.

01:31:20.000 He's not making me broke.

01:31:21.000 It's not working.

01:31:22.000 I mean, to a certain extent it is.

01:31:23.000 He's doing what old rich fucks do.

01:31:25.000 They sue you, you know?

01:31:27.000 I mean, that's common practice.

01:31:30.000 That's their avenue of getting back at you for talking.

01:31:33.000 He exists in a different world.

01:31:35.000 He is an old man, and he's born in a world where there was no internet, and he's experiencing the ramifications of this time that we're in, and also the new information that exists now, where we understand that these practices that they've been engaging in for decades are cruel and inhumane and disgusting.

01:31:55.000 They're disgusting.

01:31:56.000 There's no other way to say it.

01:31:57.000 Yeah.

01:31:58.000 Marine captivity of mammals like that is fucking disgusting.

01:32:02.000 Yeah, indeed.

01:32:04.000 Where is it gonna go, man?

01:32:05.000 Like, how long can this guy keep dragging you around the courts?

01:32:09.000 Well, unfortunately, there was some changes to the Law Society's laws.

01:32:15.000 And where it used to be, I believe, three years of inactivity in a lawsuit, you can file a motion to have it thrown out.

01:32:20.000 It had been extended as of, I think it was March of last year, to five years.

01:32:24.000 So we got a lot of things going against us.

01:32:27.000 So you have two more years of inactivity before they could sue you.

01:32:30.000 I mean, I don't know.

01:32:31.000 I'm not a lawyer, but this is my understanding of what was an opportunity before that is no longer there.

01:32:36.000 But the idea is...

01:32:38.000 At some point, he himself has to play by the rules of the courts.

01:32:41.000 He's going to have to be examined.

01:32:42.000 He's the one that's got the information that we want.

01:32:44.000 We want to go get that information.

01:32:46.000 This is information that Marineland is steadfast right now in isolating, or rather insulating, any type of witnesses.

01:32:53.000 I mean, he himself is a witness to all the things that he's alleging against us.

01:32:56.000 He should be the one that is responding to the lawsuit.

01:32:59.000 Instead, they give us this glorified janitor.

01:33:03.000 What the fuck?

01:33:03.000 What does this janitor have to do with our lawsuit?

01:33:05.000 We want to look at your financial files.

01:33:07.000 You're claiming financial losses in the region of- What's the janitor?

01:33:11.000 What are you talking about?

01:33:12.000 So what Marineland does, and this shouldn't surprise anyone, is rather than be like, okay, look, I'm suing you, so you can take a look at my files.

01:33:19.000 I'm going to present to you the net losses, financial losses that I'm claiming, and then you're going to have to defend against this information.

01:33:25.000 Well, instead, they gave me this janitor.

01:33:28.000 Well, what the hell has that got to do with anything?

01:33:30.000 We don't want it.

01:33:30.000 They gave you a janitor for what?

01:33:33.000 He's going to give us the files, apparently, that is going to give context to the lawsuit.

01:33:40.000 It's nonsense, Joe.

01:33:41.000 It's just another means that I have to fight and spend a lot of money to try to get to the root of it all, which is the legitimacy of the lawsuit, which there is none.

01:33:50.000 I'm being sued for plotting to steal a walrus.

01:33:53.000 That's what it's all about?

01:33:55.000 Plotting to steal Smooshy?

01:33:57.000 My lawsuit is plotting to steal Smooshy.

01:33:59.000 My girlfriend's lawsuit is defamation in the sense that she expressed concern for the lone remaining killer whale Kiska, which was bleeding profusely from her tail and her talk with the Toronto Star, which is the newspaper that did the investigation of Marineland.

01:34:16.000 So she's being sued and they had a video and in the video you see the killer whale bleeding like crazy.

01:34:21.000 I don't know how you can call that defamation.

01:34:22.000 And then there's another lawsuit that's going against Jim Hammond.

01:34:27.000 He's a former land animal care supervisor, and he's the one that witnessed John Holder shoot the dogs on his property for no reason.

01:34:35.000 I mean, that can't be defended.

01:34:36.000 It's indefensible.

01:34:37.000 These were golden labs.

01:34:38.000 These are puppy dogs.

01:34:39.000 They're not coyotes.

01:34:40.000 And these were his neighbors.

01:34:42.000 And the neighbors were afraid to press charges because they...

01:34:45.000 Thought that John would sue them.

01:34:46.000 They probably thought, right?

01:34:47.000 I mean, the police themselves said to me, we can't lay this charge on him because he's going to lawyer us.

01:34:52.000 He's going to lawyer up.

01:34:53.000 Oh, God.

01:34:54.000 Yeah, it's really a stonewall they're putting up.

01:34:56.000 So he just, that's just strategy.

01:34:58.000 He just sues.

01:34:59.000 It's a war of attrition.

01:35:00.000 He's going to sue everybody.

01:35:01.000 But I don't understand what he's, I don't understand how the courts are allowing him to sue for this.

01:35:05.000 This doesn't make any sense.

01:35:06.000 Because we've gotten nowhere in terms of trying to prove the legitimacy of it.

01:35:10.000 It's just the process itself, in and of itself, is punishing to people like me.

01:35:16.000 So his idea is not, let's go to court.

01:35:18.000 It's, let's put him through the wringer so that he goes broke.

01:35:21.000 And ultimately, the only way I can get out of this lawsuit is if I sign something and say, I'm not going to talk anymore.

01:35:25.000 Well, fuck that.

01:35:26.000 I'm not going to not talk.

01:35:27.000 I'm going to continue to talk.

01:35:29.000 I'm going to continue to get my ass on these podcasts and spread my word and get a louder and louder voice.

01:35:34.000 I mean, that's my resolve.

01:35:36.000 So you think ultimately this has to somehow or another come to a trial?

01:35:39.000 It absolutely has to.

01:35:40.000 Or he has to drop the charges.

01:35:42.000 And then you get to sue him.

01:35:44.000 I am suing him.

01:35:45.000 He's yet to respond to it.

01:35:46.000 This is something, again, that normally lawsuits have 30 days.

01:35:48.000 This has been three years and they've not responded.

01:35:50.000 Well, how does that work?

01:35:52.000 How come you have to respond, but he doesn't have to respond?

01:35:55.000 What they've done is essentially, or what I believe they've done, Allegedly.

01:35:59.000 They've hijacked the process, is what it's called.

01:36:03.000 Where you just inundate the courts with a bunch of different things.

01:36:06.000 And every time a court date seems to come up...

01:36:09.000 It gets adjourned.

01:36:10.000 Or we do, in fact, I mean, recently I'd lost my lawyer.

01:36:13.000 He's moved away, so I was having to find another one.

01:36:15.000 Marieland pounced.

01:36:16.000 Immediately called for a motion.

01:36:17.000 All of a sudden, okay, so now I'm defending, or rather it happened to my girlfriend that she had to go in, but my court date ultimately did get adjourned because my girlfriend was successful in actually having the motion adjourned, despite the fact that they're continuing with these motions.

01:36:32.000 It's hard to explain.

01:36:32.000 I'm not a lawyer.

01:36:33.000 I can't really get down to the nitty gritty of it all.

01:36:35.000 I can only just offer you the perspective of someone who's being punished unjustly with a process that is inherently abusive.

01:36:46.000 It's an abusive process.

01:36:48.000 It's really discouraging.

01:36:50.000 Welcome to my world, man.

01:36:51.000 And I'm still trying to put food on the table.

01:36:54.000 I mean, I've still got a life to try to live.

01:36:55.000 I mean, here I was 30, 35 when this thing happened.

01:36:59.000 I'm 38 years old.

01:37:00.000 So I get to look forward to resetting my life and try to pursue some personal endeavors at, what, 45?

01:37:05.000 Is that when?

01:37:05.000 Is that when I finally get to be freed of this thing?

01:37:07.000 I mean, I'm an activist.

01:37:08.000 Yes, okay, call me an activist.

01:37:09.000 But, you know, when this is all said and done, I'm also a human being that wants to do stuff in life.

01:37:13.000 What are you doing for work these days?

01:37:15.000 I do some...

01:37:17.000 Actually, recently I was a pallbearer for hire.

01:37:20.000 That was interesting.

01:37:21.000 A lot of people don't have families, so I'd get a call and they'd say, you want to come help carry this casket?

01:37:25.000 Okay, absolutely.

01:37:25.000 Jesus Christ.

01:37:27.000 Carrying dead bodies.

01:37:28.000 That would be great for the book.

01:37:29.000 That's another thing that's the problem.

01:37:30.000 Writing a book?

01:37:31.000 Well, absolutely.

01:37:32.000 That's a problem?

01:37:33.000 Well, it's a problem because getting a publisher is tough right now.

01:37:36.000 I mean, if you're going to publish my words, you're going to be sued.

01:37:39.000 You know, I assume there was a documentary that was in its initial stages.

01:37:44.000 It is gone.

01:37:45.000 There was a big story in Outside Magazine that was coming out.

01:37:49.000 This was the feature piece.

01:37:50.000 It got quashed.

01:37:51.000 A lot of people show fear when it comes to lawsuits.

01:37:54.000 Thankfully, Ontario passed what's called anti-slap legislation.

01:37:56.000 We got the thing.

01:37:57.000 And I mentioned this in the earlier podcast.

01:38:00.000 We were getting anti-slap legislation.

01:38:01.000 The problem is, and there's a major conflict of interest, is that Ontario's premier, she herself, had a slap suit against one of the MPPs during the elections.

01:38:12.000 She launched a lawsuit so that they couldn't talk about this controversial issue, which was this gas plant scandal.

01:38:17.000 And so what she did when she reintroduced the bill Is that she took out the retro clause.

01:38:21.000 This was our home run, dude.

01:38:23.000 We were out.

01:38:24.000 Not only that, Marineland was going to be up against some major punitive damages, as per the letter of the law.

01:38:28.000 They took out it being retro.

01:38:30.000 It's no longer retroactive.

01:38:31.000 It doesn't apply to us.

01:38:33.000 It's insanity, man.

01:38:34.000 Just because of this one woman?

01:38:35.000 Well, she's the Premier of Ontario, of course.

01:38:37.000 Fuck her!

01:38:38.000 I can't say that.

01:38:39.000 That's not gonna help me.

01:38:40.000 What's her name?

01:38:40.000 I appreciate it.

01:38:41.000 Kathleen Wynne.

01:38:42.000 Fuck you, Kathleen.

01:38:43.000 How dare you.

01:38:44.000 Hell yeah, man.

01:38:45.000 How dare you.

01:38:46.000 Remember, I didn't say that.

01:38:47.000 How dare you.

01:38:48.000 Felt it, but I didn't say it.

01:38:49.000 God damn it.

01:38:50.000 Oh, it's cruel, man.

01:38:51.000 What I've come to learn involving yourself in any type of government process and everything else is that it's, A, it's thankless work.

01:38:57.000 I mean, it's fucking brutal.

01:38:59.000 And it rarely to ever actually goes your way.

01:39:01.000 I swear to you, I've had an arrow striking the bullseye and every time it just glances.

01:39:06.000 Every fucking time.

01:39:07.000 But I'm not discouraged.

01:39:08.000 Look, I'm on this fucking show, man.

01:39:09.000 There's a dream come true.

01:39:10.000 It happened again.

01:39:11.000 I cannot fucking believe it.

01:39:12.000 So good things to come.

01:39:14.000 I just got to keep focus.

01:39:15.000 Good things to come.

01:39:16.000 It's just so bizarre that no one from the government recognizes what a horrible thing this is, not just in terms of the injustice that's being done, but also in terms of the PR for their legal system.

01:39:29.000 It is recognized.

01:39:30.000 It's been expressed at Queen's Park in provincial legislature that these are abusive lawsuits.

01:39:36.000 And we had an MPP stand up, Sherry DeNovo, and she's just like, when is this gonna stop?

01:39:41.000 I mean, she's pounding her fist and everything else.

01:39:42.000 And what happens?

01:39:44.000 Well, unfortunately, it was a political issue, and she's not a member of the Liberal Party.

01:39:47.000 She's part of the New Democratic Party, and that's...

01:39:49.000 You guys have a Liberal Party?

01:39:52.000 That's hilarious.

01:39:53.000 We have a Liberal Party that's in power on both the federal and provincial legislature.

01:39:59.000 Your king is a liberal, right?

01:40:01.000 King?

01:40:01.000 The king?

01:40:02.000 You guys have a king, right?

01:40:03.000 Justin Trudeau?

01:40:04.000 Yeah.

01:40:04.000 I like that guy.

01:40:05.000 Hey, he's the one that's gonna legalize marijuana in Canada.

01:40:06.000 He seems like a cool guy.

01:40:08.000 I've seen him talk.

01:40:09.000 I'm like, I wish we had a candidate for the United States president like that.

01:40:12.000 He's the one who we're trying to get attention to see if we can't get support for this bill we're getting to ban the whales and dolphin captivity.

01:40:18.000 Well, he definitely should be a part of that and he definitely should step in and do something about what's happening with you.

01:40:23.000 Have you guys tried to contact him about that?

01:40:25.000 I've not, but this is something that's governed by...

01:40:29.000 Ontario?

01:40:30.000 Provincial.

01:40:30.000 Yeah.

01:40:31.000 So there's nothing he can do about that.

01:40:32.000 But he's the king.

01:40:34.000 He's the king.

01:40:34.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:40:36.000 Heavy is the crown.

01:40:37.000 Yeah, what the fuck?

01:40:38.000 You can't just step in?

01:40:39.000 You'd think you'd tap on the shoulder.

01:40:40.000 Now, granted, I remember touring a lot of public figures during my time at Marine Land, including Jean Chrétien, who was a former prime minister's son, who still goes there.

01:40:52.000 So there's still some government ties to Marine Land.

01:40:55.000 He still goes there like he visits?

01:40:57.000 He brings some people to scuba dive with the beluga whales.

01:41:01.000 People with disadvantages physically and stuff.

01:41:04.000 It's a great program.

01:41:05.000 But that I know of.

01:41:07.000 He was continuing going up until 2012 at least.

01:41:09.000 I don't know that he still goes.

01:41:10.000 I haven't been in the park in that long.

01:41:13.000 It just seems like Canada has so many great things going for it.

01:41:16.000 When I hear lawsuits like this that are so insane, that last for so long, and then that your counter lawsuit doesn't get any traction at all, and that no one's paying attention to it, I just don't understand how they can allow that to happen.

01:41:30.000 It's a good thing there's a lot of people helping us.

01:41:33.000 Right?

01:41:33.000 I mean, because it appears that it's going to be the will of the people versus the will of the government.

01:41:38.000 Fuck, man.

01:41:39.000 Don't discourage me, man.

01:41:40.000 I know how...

01:41:41.000 I'm eye-hole deep in shit, man.

01:41:44.000 I know.

01:41:44.000 Well, it's just...

01:41:45.000 It's so frustrating.

01:41:46.000 It's so frustrating as an observer, as an outsider, looking at this and saying, man, this is just so strange.

01:41:53.000 It's so strange that in this day and age, this can happen.

01:41:57.000 Someone can get away with this.

01:41:58.000 He hasn't gotten away with it yet.

01:42:00.000 I ain't done.

01:42:00.000 But he's getting away with what he's doing so far.

01:42:03.000 So far.

01:42:03.000 Where, I mean, literally, the government should shut him the fuck down.

01:42:07.000 They should have stopped this lawsuit.

01:42:09.000 They should have enforced your lawsuit against him.

01:42:11.000 They should arrest him for stalking.

01:42:13.000 The whole deal.

01:42:14.000 The whole deal.

01:42:15.000 It's all disgusting.

01:42:16.000 I've become quite jaded.

01:42:18.000 And admittedly, I believed, even when we came out, that there would be some type of justice.

01:42:23.000 I mean, that's what we were seeking, of course.

01:42:24.000 Right.

01:42:24.000 Wasn't doing this for shits and giggles.

01:42:26.000 Money is draining that justice.

01:42:29.000 When you speak to power, you can expect some serious consequences.

01:42:32.000 It's as simple as that.

01:42:33.000 But it's so insane that the charge is attempting to kidnap a walrus.

01:42:38.000 Correct.

01:42:38.000 And trespassing.

01:42:39.000 And oh, here's the challenge, and I offer this to all your millions of viewers and listeners.

01:42:43.000 You find a single video of the last day, I can't remember shit, I think it was April, I think, I believe it was, uh...

01:42:50.000 Oh shit, why do I not know the date of this?

01:42:52.000 Let's call it October 17th, I believe, 2012. Marineland alleges that I broke into the park with these legions of animal rights activists, which actually did happen.

01:43:01.000 I wasn't there.

01:43:02.000 I was on public property.

01:43:04.000 I did not go into the park.

01:43:05.000 But, you know, hundreds did actually storm the gates.

01:43:07.000 And what Marineland alleges is that I trespassed in there.

01:43:09.000 And there's tons of videos.

01:43:11.000 I mean, you can get 15 different vantage points.

01:43:13.000 Any single person finds me in that video...

01:43:16.000 I will personally cut you a check for $1.5 million.

01:43:19.000 If that doesn't get you going.

01:43:20.000 You don't have $1.5 million.

01:43:21.000 How about you offer a blow?

01:43:21.000 Well, I don't have $1.5 million.

01:43:23.000 Offer a blow.

01:43:23.000 Okay, I'll blow you.

01:43:24.000 I'll blow you.

01:43:25.000 Well, it's not going to happen, right?

01:43:26.000 It's not going to happen.

01:43:26.000 So don't worry about it.

01:43:27.000 There's no video of it.

01:43:28.000 They're going to Photoshop you in there just for a blowjob.

01:43:30.000 Fuck.

01:43:30.000 Someone's going to use that CGI shit they did with Avatar.

01:43:33.000 I think I can negotiate my way out of it.

01:43:34.000 I'll give them $1.5.

01:43:36.000 Just give them a handjob.

01:43:36.000 I mean, look, Marieland thinks they're getting $1.5 out of me.

01:43:39.000 That's what they want?

01:43:39.000 $1.5 million?

01:43:41.000 Yeah.

01:43:41.000 Out of the guy who essentially is, put it this way.

01:43:44.000 That's what they're trying to sue you for?

01:43:45.000 $1.5 million?

01:43:47.000 Yeah, that's the damages they're claiming.

01:43:48.000 What's that in real money?

01:43:49.000 In terms of?

01:43:51.000 Like outside of Canada.

01:43:52.000 Like America.

01:43:53.000 Where it counts.

01:43:54.000 Oh, let's call it a million bones.

01:43:55.000 It's a million bones.

01:43:58.000 Your money's worth more, isn't it, right now?

01:43:59.000 It's worth significantly less.

01:44:01.000 That's why I'm drinking all the free beers I can while I'm here.

01:44:03.000 Well, we'll send you some.

01:44:05.000 Thanks, man.

01:44:05.000 I don't think it's legal.

01:44:06.000 Can you send beer across the border?

01:44:07.000 Probably not.

01:44:07.000 It's probably a drug.

01:44:09.000 It is a drug, right?

01:44:10.000 Well, we'll see what Justin Trudeau can do about that.

01:44:13.000 Man.

01:44:14.000 So, have you gotten any traction on any other shows?

01:44:18.000 Like, anybody else reached out to you?

01:44:20.000 Well, that Canada Land podcast was timely and big, and it was great.

01:44:23.000 Did they get a lot of downloads?

01:44:25.000 Yeah, and it's still going.

01:44:27.000 It only was published two weeks ago.

01:44:29.000 Okay, and is Canada Land is what it's called?

01:44:31.000 Yeah.

01:44:32.000 And do you know what episode it is?

01:44:33.000 It's called Everyone Loves Marine Land.

01:44:34.000 Okay, Everyone Loves Marine Land.

01:44:36.000 It's their second most recent...

01:44:38.000 Send people to that.

01:44:39.000 What about American podcasts?

01:44:42.000 Abby Martin, thankfully, has had me on a number of times.

01:44:45.000 And through the show, I've received quite a bit of support from what I would call some real badass, awesome people.

01:44:50.000 So I'm most appreciative.

01:44:51.000 But beyond that, no, there's really quite a bit of fear of my speaking.

01:44:55.000 Mostly in Canada, right?

01:44:57.000 Mostly in Canada.

01:44:59.000 Outside Magazine, they quashed that story.

01:45:02.000 I mean, this was going to be a big feature.

01:45:03.000 How did that happen?

01:45:04.000 Do you know?

01:45:05.000 Do you know what the mechanism is?

01:45:06.000 Yeah.

01:45:06.000 So the writer was staying at our place, and at the time, I believe, we had...

01:45:12.000 There were...

01:45:15.000 I think?

01:45:37.000 And sure as shit, Marieland named him by name, the author, and that was it.

01:45:43.000 So he tried to get the article to run, but outside ultimately said, like, we're not interested in being sued.

01:45:51.000 Now it's a different time.

01:45:52.000 There's anti-slut legislation now, so outside if you're listening.

01:45:55.000 Well, why didn't they just shut their fucking mouth until they published it?

01:46:01.000 How did they find out about it?

01:46:02.000 He was asking current and former employees to see if anyone would speak, and then obviously there was someone I went to.

01:46:08.000 When you worked in an oppressive sort of regime, if you will, you're quick to try to score bonus points.

01:46:15.000 I assume a former trainer or someone probably said, hey, this guy's calling around looking for something.

01:46:19.000 What other businesses does that guy have?

01:46:21.000 They're all in-house businesses, but yeah, he owns a lot of property.

01:46:24.000 He owes no one any money.

01:46:25.000 There's no outside financial interest whatsoever.

01:46:28.000 He has the sole controlling mind.

01:46:29.000 It seems like a guy like that needs to come to Jesus moment where he just realizes, like, what am I doing?

01:46:34.000 My life is...

01:46:35.000 I mean, he's at the later stages of his life and he's living like this, suing people.

01:46:39.000 It's all anger and evil.

01:46:41.000 I hate to mention it, but a couple years ago, a few years ago, and this was my greatest ally.

01:46:45.000 His son actually passed away.

01:46:47.000 And this was the guy who actually allowed me into the park when, unbeknownst to me, I was no longer allowed there.

01:46:52.000 He let me in.

01:46:53.000 And that's when I saw, you know, Smushy and the condition that she was in that ultimately inspired me to sort of speak out.

01:46:59.000 And not be anonymous.

01:47:01.000 And he shortly thereafter actually passed away, and he was my age.

01:47:04.000 How did he die?

01:47:06.000 I'm afraid to say, but I'll say that it was...

01:47:08.000 I believe it was avoidable.

01:47:12.000 I think that when you live under an oppressive and difficult situation, especially with regards to your relationship with your father, that maybe you resort to methods to ease that pain, maybe.

01:47:25.000 To sort of...

01:47:28.000 I don't know.

01:47:28.000 Maybe forget your woes?

01:47:30.000 So something drug-related?

01:47:32.000 I don't know.

01:47:33.000 You don't know.

01:47:34.000 Okay.

01:47:34.000 I understand what you're doing.

01:47:35.000 Yeah, cheers.

01:47:36.000 It's cool.

01:47:36.000 Thanks.

01:47:37.000 So what's the next step?

01:47:40.000 What happens now other than tell everybody to go to SaveSmooshy.com, throw some money around?

01:47:46.000 The next step would be nice if maybe PETA would step up.

01:47:49.000 I mean, you know, in terms of hypocrisy, PETA likes to use our headlines.

01:47:54.000 And to raise money for themselves on their websites and they'll donate here.

01:47:57.000 Look, how do you save marine lands animals?

01:47:59.000 Donate here.

01:48:00.000 We've not received an iota of help.

01:48:01.000 In fact, I asked them, look, can I just get a tweet out of you guys?

01:48:03.000 And they said, oh, it's a non-profit.

01:48:04.000 We've learned that that doesn't help.

01:48:06.000 Wait a minute.

01:48:06.000 Hold on.

01:48:07.000 So they say donate here to them to help you and the money goes to them?

01:48:12.000 No, no, no.

01:48:12.000 To help them.

01:48:13.000 They don't ever say to help you.

01:48:14.000 To help you.

01:48:15.000 It's just that they use the stories.

01:48:16.000 They'll be like, oh, mass graves found at Marineland.

01:48:18.000 And then, you know, there's the article.

01:48:20.000 And it's, oh, it's horrifying.

01:48:21.000 Fildemers says...

01:48:21.000 Donate here and then donate to PETA. And at the bottom, here's the donate to PETA. Ooh.

01:48:27.000 Yeah, it's tough, man.

01:48:28.000 Well, they're too busy killing cats and dogs.

01:48:30.000 And tweeting you on Orca Day.

01:48:32.000 Yeah.

01:48:32.000 I mean, tweeting Joe Rogan, the guy who's throwing arrows into every animal that, you know.

01:48:37.000 And they're asking you for retweets.

01:48:39.000 I actually thought that was brilliant.

01:48:40.000 I'm like, wow.

01:48:41.000 PETA's, like, really...

01:48:42.000 They're sort of showing their true colors, but...

01:48:44.000 Well, they know that I do love orcas.

01:48:47.000 Yeah, fair enough.

01:48:47.000 I also just love to eat deer.

01:48:51.000 Fair enough.

01:48:52.000 I don't throw ours into everything, man.

01:48:53.000 No, that's fair.

01:48:54.000 Only edible stuff.

01:48:56.000 But, I mean, they've retweeted things that I've posted up about orcas, and particularly about my loathing of orca captivity.

01:49:09.000 And I think there's new laws that have been passed in California, right?

01:49:12.000 So recently, SeaWorld, so what happened with SeaWorld, they had to ask permission from the California Coastal Commission for a $100 million expansion.

01:49:21.000 Of their pools, of the existing pools.

01:49:23.000 What they've said is, we're going to eliminate the show.

01:49:25.000 Which is not true.

01:49:26.000 It's not true in any capacity.

01:49:28.000 What they're going to do is create a new environment, a larger one, which is good.

01:49:32.000 But they're still going to have a presentation of sorts that's going to rely on animals performing more natural behaviors.

01:49:39.000 But still, there's going to be food deprivation in the train.

01:49:42.000 It's the same thing.

01:49:44.000 It's presented differently.

01:49:46.000 So what the California Coastal Commission said was, look, we'll grant you permission to make this large expanse.

01:49:52.000 You can't breed orcas anymore.

01:49:55.000 So what SeaWorld basically said was, okay, well, A, they've considered not doing it altogether.

01:50:00.000 B, now they're suing the California Coastal Commission, alleging that they've overstepped their boundaries.

01:50:05.000 But what's really- So they want to keep breeding them.

01:50:07.000 Exactly.

01:50:08.000 Doesn't that tell you everything?

01:50:09.000 All of a sudden, they're not going to create this large habitat for the existing animals that they supposedly care so much for.

01:50:16.000 But if there's that clause for breeding, no, they're not going to do it.

01:50:19.000 I mean, that says it all.

01:50:20.000 Really, it does.

01:50:21.000 Wow.

01:50:21.000 So they're not going to create the new larger environment just because they're not allowed to breed them?

01:50:26.000 Because they've got this clause.

01:50:27.000 Well, they're going to sue, I assume, to try to have that overturned, which I hope the California Coastal Commission would reconsider their approval of.

01:50:32.000 They should step it up and just make the whole fucking thing illegal.

01:50:35.000 Jerry Brown.

01:50:35.000 Come on, Jerry Brown.

01:50:36.000 You're a hippie.

01:50:37.000 There is a recently tabled bill, which is a federal ban across the states for orca captivity.

01:50:43.000 They should.

01:50:44.000 They should.

01:50:44.000 It's 100%.

01:50:45.000 I mean, I wish there was a way that they could hook up a fucking machine to a pond or a pool where an orca is and have that orca communicate and have it broken down to English.

01:50:56.000 You know, we have Google Translate for Russian and Spanish.

01:51:00.000 How about an orca translate?

01:51:01.000 If they figured out a way to scientifically, without debate, analyze the sounds and break them down into an English language that we could read and understand Yeah, people would be mortified.

01:51:14.000 Oh my god, what if orcas just start saying really racist shit?

01:51:18.000 They just hate Chinese people.

01:51:22.000 Well, maybe not the orcas, but dolphins and whatnot have reason to hate the people of Taiji, Japan, who are just repeatedly hacking them up.

01:51:31.000 And then, of course, in the Faroe Islands, and I watched a documentary on what's called The Grind, is when they do these drive fisheries.

01:51:39.000 They drive the animals.

01:51:40.000 They're sonic animals, so you pound the bottom of the ocean floor or these metal rods into other steel structures, and then it herds the animals onto the land.

01:51:48.000 Well, what they do here in the Faroe Islands is they grab these hooks, And they embed it in the fucking blowhole of the pilot whales, for instance, and there's a long rope and then the people drag these things up and then they go up and hack their throat, right?

01:52:01.000 They want to call it subsistence hunting, but it's hard to call that subsistence hunting.

01:52:05.000 Maybe historically it has been, but it's pretty brutal.

01:52:08.000 So they eat the pilot whales?

01:52:09.000 Is that what it is?

01:52:10.000 They eat the pilot whales, yeah.

01:52:13.000 But I'm of the opinion that it's a cultural thing and they're on the wrong side of history now.

01:52:19.000 You've done it.

01:52:20.000 It's done.

01:52:20.000 It's documented.

01:52:21.000 You got the photos, if you will.

01:52:22.000 The history's there.

01:52:23.000 Let it be there.

01:52:24.000 Keep it in the history books.

01:52:25.000 Well, it's one of those things where if you look at the environments where they eat whales, there's people starving.

01:52:33.000 It's desperation.

01:52:34.000 In those places, I'm not going to argue.

01:52:37.000 Subsistence eating and hunting is important.

01:52:39.000 I don't doubt that.

01:52:39.000 But in the Faroe Islands, across from where they're doing the grind, is a vast, beautiful cityscape.

01:52:45.000 Like, you can't tell me you can't just go grab a couple eggs and make yourself an omelet.

01:52:48.000 I don't know.

01:52:49.000 Yeah, I know what you're saying.

01:52:51.000 The dolphin thing in the movie The Cove, which is what you talked about about Japan, they were killing them because they were eating the tuna, right?

01:53:00.000 Isn't that the idea behind it?

01:53:01.000 They will use anything to defend the culture of killing these dolphins, but really it's fueled by the captivity industry.

01:53:07.000 Those dolphins are invaluable, and places like And I'm not going to say SeaWorld now because it's been a number of years, but they have historically acquired animals from these dry fisheries, but they buy these animals.

01:53:17.000 And these hunters are driving around fucking Porsches and shit.

01:53:19.000 It's not because they're chopping the dolphins up for meat.

01:53:22.000 That's not the thriving industry.

01:53:24.000 It's the captivity industry.

01:53:26.000 They're selling them.

01:53:26.000 When they're killing all those, why would they kill them if they could sell them?

01:53:30.000 Well, because they're not aesthetically pleasing.

01:53:31.000 They take so many of the animals, they take the more aesthetically pleasing ones, they sell them for the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then they chop up the dolphins, and then they, whatever, I guess they give them the supermarkets and whatnot.

01:53:44.000 They give them the supermarkets?

01:53:45.000 Well, they are sold, yeah.

01:53:47.000 I've never eaten dolphin.

01:53:48.000 I've been in Japan.

01:53:48.000 I never ate dolphins.

01:53:49.000 In Japan, they eat dolphin?

01:53:51.000 They have.

01:53:52.000 I think that that's something that's going away.

01:53:54.000 I think the new sort of...

01:53:57.000 Generations of kids.

01:53:58.000 I didn't watch the Cove because I didn't want to see it because I've seen enough YouTube videos of it.

01:54:02.000 It's just it's horrific.

01:54:03.000 I can't watch.

01:54:04.000 It's murder.

01:54:05.000 I didn't know that they ate him.

01:54:07.000 Yeah.

01:54:08.000 Well, and what we're coming to learn is that there's high levels of mercury in the dolphin meat, so it's actually poisoning people.

01:54:14.000 So people are really getting away from that.

01:54:16.000 But more than not, I think it's front to keep the captivity industry going and to keep that money there.

01:54:21.000 Because they sell them to places in China, they sell them to places in, you know, wherever, in Japan itself.

01:54:26.000 And there's a lot of money that's being exchanged between the facilities and the hunters.

01:54:31.000 So outside of Canada and the United States, there's a bunch of places in the world that still have those sort of marine-type shows.

01:54:38.000 China, especially right now.

01:54:39.000 China is really starting to...

01:54:41.000 It's like a burgeoning environment for the captivity industry.

01:54:43.000 So they're ramping it up.

01:54:44.000 They're plucking elephants out of Thailand and stuff.

01:54:49.000 I mean, wild-caught, wild-born baby elephants, they're stripping them from their mothers and they're shipping them to these places in China now, these zoos.

01:54:56.000 I mean, this is another thing that has to stop now, right?

01:55:00.000 China.

01:55:01.000 Damn.

01:55:03.000 That dog festival's rough.

01:55:05.000 Yeah, the Yulin Dog Festival.

01:55:08.000 I watched that the other day on TV. There was some sort of a special.

01:55:12.000 This woman goes over there.

01:55:14.000 It was interesting, though, the way the Chinese people looked at it.

01:55:17.000 And it's hard to argue.

01:55:19.000 They're looking at it the same way we look at bacon.

01:55:22.000 It offers great perspective for the people that are, for instance, saying, I will never fucking eat this dog.

01:55:27.000 Well, guess what?

01:55:28.000 It's not any different.

01:55:29.000 It's no less a conscious being than your pigs, who are arguably significantly more intelligent than dogs, or your cows, or your whatever.

01:55:37.000 I mean, it is what it is.

01:55:38.000 But it does offer a glimpse into the hypocrisy of loving one animal and eating the next.

01:55:41.000 So I appreciate that this thing offers that context.

01:55:44.000 It's bizarre how we have these ideas, these hierarchies of animals.

01:55:50.000 This one, it's okay to kill and eat them.

01:55:52.000 This one, it's not.

01:55:53.000 It seems more novelty-based, really.

01:55:55.000 Yeah, it was a lot.

01:55:55.000 You can make a hell of a pet out of a pig, but what, it's less cute?

01:55:59.000 Well, there was a guy who had a pig the other day.

01:56:01.000 Where the fuck were we?

01:56:04.000 Um, somewhere here in California, a guy had a pig on a leash.

01:56:08.000 Awesome.

01:56:08.000 Yeah, with a dog.

01:56:09.000 He has a dog and a pig, and he had the pig on a leash.

01:56:11.000 Like, well, okay.

01:56:12.000 Don't quote me, but the intelligence of a pig is, from what I believe, I remember...

01:56:17.000 They're very smart.

01:56:17.000 A ten-year-old or something?

01:56:19.000 A human?

01:56:19.000 Eh, not my kid.

01:56:22.000 Because it's so much smarter.

01:56:24.000 Exactly!

01:56:25.000 My fucking kid!

01:56:27.000 No, they're supposed to be intelligent.

01:56:28.000 I don't know if they're like a ten-year-old, but they're supposed to be quite intelligent.

01:56:32.000 It's hard to quantify, you know, like octopus.

01:56:35.000 Of course.

01:56:35.000 They're just starting to realize how intelligent octopus are.

01:56:38.000 Of course.

01:56:38.000 I eat the fuck out of some octopus.

01:56:40.000 Fish?

01:56:40.000 Tuna?

01:56:40.000 Yeah.

01:56:41.000 Tuna intelligent?

01:56:42.000 Apparently brilliant, yeah.

01:56:43.000 Really?

01:56:44.000 Yeah.

01:56:44.000 Well, to some...

01:56:45.000 Not smart enough to stay out of the cans.

01:56:48.000 Cans of tuna, you know what I'm saying?

01:56:50.000 The ocean's fisheries are decimated.

01:56:53.000 I think we've got basically an expiry date of, I think they said 2040. I watched a documentary called End of the Line recently, and they basically said that 90% of the ocean's fisheries are decimated.

01:57:04.000 Fucking gone.

01:57:05.000 And tuna, especially, is really susceptible to extinction.

01:57:07.000 And it's just because we just overfish.

01:57:10.000 Overfish, and it's the methods that we do it.

01:57:12.000 I mean, you got these trawlers that are setting up nets that are the size of football fields, and they're just grinding the ocean floor, and it's just decimating the ocean.

01:57:22.000 Yeah, it ruins the beds.

01:57:23.000 The ecology as a whole.

01:57:24.000 It fucks up coral reefs, everything.

01:57:27.000 And what could be done about that?

01:57:29.000 I mean, they've got to leave it alone and let these things grow back.

01:57:32.000 It all comes down to what you can do with your wallet if you don't, if you're not spending the money to go to, you know, Nobu and get that piece of tofu, or rather that tofu shit.

01:57:45.000 That piece of tuna, then you assume that in some way, shape, or form that that's going to curb this behavior.

01:57:51.000 The problem is also that the ocean is not like...

01:57:55.000 If you're in a country and the country establishes bag limits on animals, they can keep the populations very healthy.

01:58:02.000 You can't really do that with an ocean.

01:58:05.000 No one's governing the oceans very aggressively.

01:58:07.000 Well, if they were, this whole thing in China or Japan wouldn't be taking place with the dolphins.

01:58:12.000 The only people that are doing it is Sea Shepherd, and unfortunately, Paul Watson is considered a terrorist in a lot of countries and can't actually set foot on firm land.

01:58:24.000 Right, in some countries.

01:58:25.000 It's funny, he's the one that's being demonized for really trying to save the fucking planet.

01:58:30.000 Well, one of the things they've done in Japan, where they've sort of skirted around this whale-killing thing, is they say that they're doing it for scientific research, but then they take these animals on board, and they butcher them, and they sell the meat.

01:58:44.000 But it's so fucked up, all they have to do is, like, pretend to run a few tests, and they've documented this.

01:58:50.000 Sea Shepherd has done that.

01:58:51.000 They've documented these whalers.

01:58:53.000 And they're doing it in whale sanctuaries.

01:58:55.000 They're doing it in places where it shouldn't be done, but it's not monitored by anyone except for Sea Shepherd, right?

01:59:00.000 End of the world, brother.

01:59:01.000 Fuck it.

01:59:01.000 It's not, though.

01:59:02.000 No, you're right.

01:59:03.000 It's not.

01:59:03.000 Because this is the first time ever where people are widely aware of this kind of activity.

01:59:07.000 And this is where I credit this show.

01:59:09.000 I'm telling you, I'm sitting here before you as a fan, first and foremost.

01:59:12.000 You've illuminated so many issues and broadened the spectrum of my consciousness so much.

01:59:20.000 I am now, I can tell you, I am in the seat of your millions of listeners.

01:59:25.000 I am that person right now who's saying to himself, damn, I wish I could be on that fucking show.

01:59:30.000 I just happen to do something that, you know, my life circumstances just ultimately led me here, but I am that guy.

01:59:35.000 And I have to extend another, you know, a big thank you for ultimately shaping...

01:59:40.000 A paradigm that is shifting so goddamn fast on so many different levels and so many different topics out there.

01:59:45.000 And largely, what you did started, what, six years ago, I believe it was, when you started the podcast.

01:59:50.000 You know, you're the guy who did this.

01:59:53.000 Well, I couldn't have done it if it wasn't for people like you being on the show.

01:59:57.000 All I'm doing is having conversations with cool people.

02:00:00.000 This whole thing has made itself.

02:00:01.000 It's very bizarre.

02:00:03.000 I love that my ass is, in some way, making physical contact with some awesome asses that have sat here, man.

02:00:10.000 That's an interesting way of looking at it.

02:00:12.000 Oh, I love it.

02:00:12.000 I love him rubbing up against this going, oh, Neil deGrasse here?

02:00:15.000 Yeah, right on.

02:00:16.000 He wasn't in that one.

02:00:17.000 Those old seats.

02:00:19.000 Oh, right.

02:00:19.000 I should mention, these are pretty comfortable.

02:00:21.000 These are dope, right?

02:00:22.000 Yeah, they are.

02:00:22.000 Thanks to Ergo Depot for...

02:00:25.000 Providing me with these.

02:00:26.000 These are called Capisco chairs because people constantly ask me on Twitter.

02:00:30.000 They're super comfortable.

02:00:32.000 They're ergonomic chairs.

02:00:33.000 And they move well, too.

02:00:34.000 Well, they move well, but here's the most important thing.

02:00:36.000 These are the only chairs I have ever sat in that are comfortable that I can sit for a three-hour podcast and my back doesn't hurt.

02:00:41.000 It's got the lumbar support, eh?

02:00:42.000 Yeah, well, when I leave, well, it's just, it forces you to sit in a way where you're erect, which is how we're supposed to sit.

02:00:48.000 And when I would sit in, like, a standard office chair, by the end of the day, my back's all fucked up from jiu-jitsu.

02:00:54.000 So, like, the middle of my back would be hurting like hell.

02:00:56.000 I'd be like, ah!

02:00:57.000 Like I'd leave podcasts and I'd be all stiff.

02:01:00.000 I leave these like I feel right now like I just sat down.

02:01:05.000 Like it doesn't bother me at all.

02:01:06.000 Yeah, full disclosure.

02:01:07.000 I was moving in my seat because I'm just fidgety guy.

02:01:09.000 Not because I wasn't uncomfortable.

02:01:10.000 These ergonomic chairs, man, they are the future.

02:01:12.000 They are the present.

02:01:14.000 They're so much better than a regular office chair.

02:01:17.000 Regular office chairs cause you to sit in sort of a weird way.

02:01:20.000 Unless you consciously...

02:01:22.000 Like, I need to get these fucking things to the UFC. Because when I sit and watch the UFC for six hours, I sit like a hot chick on Instagram.

02:01:31.000 Like, when they stick their ass out.

02:01:33.000 That's how I sit.

02:01:34.000 I purposely force myself to sit in this unnatural way.

02:01:38.000 Whereas if I had chairs like this, I would just...

02:01:41.000 So, Ergo Depot, holler at me.

02:01:43.000 We'll send these bitches over to the UFC and...

02:01:46.000 You know, that's actually like the UFC has, you know, they use the chairs that are there at the Mandalay Bay or MGM or whatever.

02:01:52.000 But my point is these are the shit.

02:01:54.000 Yeah, they're great.

02:01:56.000 Anything else before we wrap this thing up?

02:01:58.000 Everything else.

02:01:58.000 I could talk for hours, man.

02:01:59.000 Wrap it up and let me...

02:02:00.000 Is there anything else important that we left off the table?

02:02:02.000 Oh, shit.

02:02:04.000 I know you got a whole notebook there, dude.

02:02:06.000 You're like a comedian.

02:02:07.000 You have, like, notes.

02:02:08.000 That's my process.

02:02:09.000 Oh, ag gag laws.

02:02:10.000 You're familiar with ag gag laws?

02:02:11.000 This is the agriculture laws that...

02:02:13.000 Yes.

02:02:14.000 Factory farming.

02:02:14.000 That's a perfect example of sort of what we're going through.

02:02:16.000 This is a microcosm of what we're dealing with.

02:02:18.000 You know, Marine Land sort of gets creative in sort of creating their own little ag gag sort of procedures with existing laws.

02:02:24.000 But, yeah, these ag gag laws are just an absolute...

02:02:28.000 Just a fucking horrible thing.

02:02:30.000 I mean, to be able to prosecute and punish people that are trying to expose the truth of farming and agriculture practices?

02:02:40.000 This is absurd.

02:02:40.000 This is fucking crazy, right?

02:02:42.000 Yeah.

02:02:42.000 Well, what they're doing is if people have a video, like a cell phone video or something like that, and you film a Pigs in captivity or chickens or anything in agriculture where they have factory farming, you can get sued.

02:02:58.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:02:58.000 And you can go to jail.

02:02:59.000 Yeah.

02:03:00.000 Like, you can go to jail for exposing something that makes people sick and a reality of a business.

02:03:04.000 If you're buying something, I feel like if I'm buying a chicken and then I find out, oh...

02:03:11.000 I can no longer be detached from this process because now I know exactly how this chicken lived and I feel horrible about it.

02:03:17.000 I've been educated.

02:03:18.000 And so that company needs to change its practices because I don't want to buy chickens from them anymore.

02:03:23.000 And if some people do, that's fine with them.

02:03:25.000 But to stop people from filming that and showing you, you're trying to keep people in the dark.

02:03:31.000 You're misleading people.

02:03:32.000 You're hiding facts.

02:03:34.000 You're hiding truth.

02:03:36.000 That's not cool.

02:03:38.000 This is exactly what we're dealing with in reality, right?

02:03:41.000 Is this the same fucking thing?

02:03:42.000 Yeah, it is.

02:03:43.000 It is.

02:03:43.000 It is exactly the same thing.

02:03:45.000 Hiding truth, hiding reality, and trying to keep people from being aware of what's essentially torture.

02:03:54.000 You know, I buy as little meat as possible and no eggs.

02:03:59.000 I don't buy any eggs from anywhere, unless I'm in a restaurant or something like that.

02:04:02.000 You have your own chickens.

02:04:03.000 I have my own chickens and I have a good feeling.

02:04:08.000 My chickens like me.

02:04:10.000 They come to me.

02:04:11.000 I come out to them, and I bring food, and I'm like, what's up, kids?

02:04:14.000 Hey, girls.

02:04:15.000 And I put the plate down.

02:04:16.000 They're not scared of me.

02:04:17.000 They run over, and they lay eggs, and I take the eggs.

02:04:20.000 Sometimes they peck at me when I try to steal their eggs, but I reach under them to take them.

02:04:25.000 Barely.

02:04:26.000 They don't know me that good.

02:04:28.000 You could take them.

02:04:28.000 But my point is, it's like I enjoy that relationship, and I know that not everybody can have that sort of a relationship, but...

02:04:35.000 That is what you want if you want eggs.

02:04:38.000 Like PETA has these really ridiculous campaigns against chickens and against eggs where they call it a chicken period and they have a frying pan on their website with a pair of panties that has like a fucking bloody spot on the panties and you're frying the period.

02:04:55.000 It's so bizarre.

02:04:56.000 Have you ever seen it, Jamie?

02:04:57.000 Pull it up.

02:04:58.000 If periods tasted as good as eggs, I don't think there'd be an issue.

02:05:01.000 Periods don't taste that good.

02:05:02.000 Ew, Jesus, come on.

02:05:05.000 How dare you?

02:05:05.000 It tastes like a penny.

02:05:06.000 What's the problem?

02:05:07.000 Ew, how dare you keep going?

02:05:11.000 The problem is captivity.

02:05:12.000 It's not eggs.

02:05:13.000 Joel Salatin, who is a really fascinating guy, I had him on my podcast, and he's an advocate of...

02:05:19.000 What you would call natural farming.

02:05:20.000 When he has pigs, what he does is he puts this enormous electrical fence up, and the pigs, they don't want to go near the fence.

02:05:29.000 It doesn't hurt them, but it zaps them so they don't pass it.

02:05:33.000 And then they move the fence, so they continue to graze in new property.

02:05:37.000 So they're eating acorns and roots and all natural things that pigs eat.

02:05:41.000 And that's what he does with these pigs.

02:05:43.000 With chickens, the same thing.

02:05:44.000 He has these enormous chicken houses and they roll them to new environments.

02:05:49.000 And so on his farm, this chicken house, the hen house, has rollers on it.

02:05:55.000 And they'll move it to a new area.

02:05:56.000 And the chickens, my chickens, I open the gates and my chickens run around my yard.

02:06:00.000 And then they go back in the hen house at night.

02:06:03.000 It's what they do.

02:06:04.000 It's also stimulating for them because they get a new environment all the time.

02:06:06.000 Yes, and they're free.

02:06:08.000 They're literally free.

02:06:08.000 And when you get eggs from those kind of chickens, they're a dark orange, like a really dark, deep orange.

02:06:14.000 And that's because it's much healthier.

02:06:17.000 When you see something that says vegetarian-fed chickens, guess what?

02:06:22.000 Chickens aren't vegetarians.

02:06:23.000 They're fucking dinosaurs.

02:06:25.000 I fed my chickens a mouse once, and here's another example of the hierarchy of animals we love and animals we don't love.

02:06:31.000 It's really interesting how this happened in my house.

02:06:35.000 My kids found a hawk.

02:06:37.000 The hawk slammed into, I think, a window or something.

02:06:41.000 I'm not sure.

02:06:42.000 We weren't there, but we found this wounded hawk.

02:06:44.000 So my kids...

02:06:46.000 Decided that what we're going to do is we're going to take this hawk and get it to a wildlife rescue organization.

02:06:52.000 So they had to feed it because it was over the weekend and the rescue organization wasn't open.

02:06:57.000 So they went to the pet store and they got, they're called pinkies, which are these little tiny mice.

02:07:02.000 Yeah.

02:07:02.000 To the people listening, they're mice that haven't, they're baby mice.

02:07:06.000 And they use them to feed snakes and stuff like that.

02:07:08.000 And so they fed the hawk.

02:07:10.000 These pinkies.

02:07:11.000 And there was one pinky left.

02:07:13.000 And they got the hawk to the Wildlife Rescue Organization.

02:07:16.000 The hawk was taken care of and everything, and hopefully it was released into the wild.

02:07:20.000 But we had one pinky left over, and my daughter wanted to raise it.

02:07:23.000 And I said, sweetie, this is going to die.

02:07:26.000 It has to eat milk.

02:07:28.000 It's only been alive for a few days.

02:07:29.000 It's just not going to last.

02:07:30.000 I'm amazed it's still alive.

02:07:32.000 And she was crying.

02:07:33.000 And I said, but we just fed them to the hawks.

02:07:35.000 Do you understand this?

02:07:36.000 I go, there's one of two things we should do.

02:07:39.000 I go, we should either bring it back to the pet store.

02:07:42.000 No!

02:07:43.000 I go, listen, if we don't bring it back to the pet store, it's going to die.

02:07:47.000 We bring it back to the pet store.

02:07:48.000 The pet store, I don't know if the mouse will accept it now that we've got our scent on it.

02:07:54.000 I don't know how that works, but they're going to feed it to a snake.

02:07:57.000 They're just going to resell it.

02:07:58.000 Someone's going to buy it or it might die because it hasn't eaten in 24 hours.

02:08:02.000 I don't know.

02:08:03.000 And our other option is we give it to the chickens.

02:08:06.000 And there's a sauce crying and this and that.

02:08:08.000 At this point, had you known that the chicken was likely to eat this thing?

02:08:11.000 I knew it.

02:08:11.000 I've seen them eat a mouse before.

02:08:13.000 Oh, really?

02:08:13.000 They're fucking ruthless, dude.

02:08:15.000 They're ruthless.

02:08:17.000 Like, I put that mouse down.

02:08:19.000 It was not down on the ground for a fucking half a second when one chicken slammed it.

02:08:26.000 Got it in his beak and the other chickens were chasing this chicken around the hen house.

02:08:31.000 Like this chicken couldn't pause to try to eat this because all the other chickens knew what it had and they were running around.

02:08:37.000 It couldn't stop.

02:08:38.000 It was running and it's trying to eat it and the other chickens are running with it and I should have filmed it.

02:08:43.000 I had no idea.

02:08:44.000 Dude, they're monsters.

02:08:46.000 I heard they're pretty ruthless with each other and they like to peck the shit out of each other.

02:08:49.000 They peck everything.

02:08:50.000 Here's what's fucked up, man.

02:08:51.000 They pecked my daughter a couple of times.

02:08:53.000 And one time I almost killed one of them because it pecked her face.

02:08:56.000 And my wife is like, it doesn't, no.

02:08:59.000 I go, listen, listen.

02:09:00.000 It's trying to eat her.

02:09:02.000 It just can't.

02:09:03.000 You need to get this in your head.

02:09:04.000 It's not that it doesn't know.

02:09:06.000 It knows she's alive and it's trying to fucking eat her.

02:09:08.000 And if we held her down, those chickens would eat her.

02:09:11.000 She's like, you just, you get crazy with this.

02:09:13.000 I go, I'm telling you right now, they are fucking dinosaurs.

02:09:16.000 They're cold-blooded.

02:09:17.000 They have the fucking brain of a pencil eraser, okay?

02:09:21.000 Little tiny on the tip of your pencil.

02:09:23.000 That's how big their fucking brain is.

02:09:25.000 Walk, fuck, fight, eat.

02:09:26.000 Exactly.

02:09:27.000 They'll eat everything.

02:09:28.000 They follow my wife around like she'll lift up rocks, and they dive under the rocks to try to get worms and anything that's there.

02:09:33.000 They're little predators, man.

02:09:35.000 They're straight-up predators.

02:09:36.000 So when you see, like, vegetarian-fed, those aren't good eggs.

02:09:41.000 You're not doing any service to that egg.

02:09:42.000 They're omnivores.

02:09:43.000 They're omnivores and they would eat meat all day long above grass if you gave it to them.

02:09:48.000 They like that more.

02:09:49.000 Like my lawn is filled with grass and they peck at the grass and they eat all kinds of other stuff too.

02:09:54.000 And they eat the chicken food that we bought.

02:09:55.000 We try to buy the most nutritious chicken food available.

02:09:58.000 There's some brands that are like more diverse in the food and the nutrients that are in them.

02:10:04.000 But the bottom line is they abandon all that shit when they see something live.

02:10:08.000 They try to eat living things.

02:10:10.000 That's what they want to do.

02:10:10.000 So that's the thing we got to be scared of most is...

02:10:12.000 Chickens that are going to get big.

02:10:13.000 Which is lucky they're little.

02:10:14.000 Yeah.

02:10:15.000 Well, you ever heard of terror birds?

02:10:16.000 I like to tell people that all the time.

02:10:17.000 It's just like, if you don't think that that cat wouldn't fucking eat you if it was just a significantly larger, believe me, you'd have a different respect for...

02:10:22.000 Oh, fuck yeah.

02:10:23.000 For, A, the animal and the idea that, you know, eating meat is...

02:10:25.000 Fuck yeah, dude.

02:10:27.000 Fuck yeah.

02:10:27.000 Like a largemouth bass.

02:10:28.000 If you're swimming in a pool big enough for a largemouth bass to eat you, you're done.

02:10:31.000 Like a grouper.

02:10:32.000 Have you ever seen those giant groupers in Florida?

02:10:34.000 It's crazy.

02:10:34.000 They would eat a baby.

02:10:35.000 100%.

02:10:36.000 Guaranteed.

02:10:36.000 The baby was floating around, a grouper would come up.

02:10:38.000 There was a nutty video of a grouper eating a shark.

02:10:41.000 I saw it.

02:10:41.000 Isn't that crazy?

02:10:42.000 It's fucking crazy.

02:10:43.000 The shark was like three feet long?

02:10:45.000 Yeah, swallowed it.

02:10:45.000 Just put it right in his mouth.

02:10:46.000 Such a mammoth fucking animal.

02:10:49.000 It's like a giant largemouth bass from a Hobbit movie.

02:10:52.000 It's crazy.

02:10:53.000 They don't even seem real.

02:10:54.000 Yeah.

02:10:54.000 I don't know how big they get, but I think it's hundreds and hundreds of pounds.

02:10:57.000 What about that massive...

02:10:57.000 Look at this.

02:10:58.000 Here it is.

02:10:58.000 These people, they caught a shark, and they put the camera in the water to film this grouper that's coming up to the shark.

02:11:06.000 So they have a small shark on the hook, and as they're reeling it in...

02:11:11.000 And they're bringing it in.

02:11:12.000 This video could use some editing.

02:11:14.000 And as they're reeling it in, they've got this shark.

02:11:16.000 It's not a small shark.

02:11:18.000 It's about three feet long, maybe even more.

02:11:20.000 It might even be four feet.

02:11:21.000 And this grouper comes along and smashes it as they're trying to get it out of the water.

02:11:27.000 Look at this.

02:11:28.000 Boom!

02:11:29.000 Jesus Christ.

02:11:30.000 I mean, that grouper's got to be two, three hundred pounds.

02:11:33.000 I don't know how big they get, but I would assume they get to be like 300 or 400 pounds.

02:11:37.000 How big are groupers, Jeremy?

02:11:39.000 I don't know.

02:11:40.000 Let's end this with groupers.

02:11:42.000 They taste good, though.

02:11:44.000 You ever have a grouper sandwich?

02:11:45.000 No, I haven't.

02:11:45.000 I don't know if you would want to eat an old one like that.

02:11:48.000 Probably not.

02:11:49.000 Yeah, they get a little...

02:11:50.000 I don't know.

02:11:50.000 I don't know if that's the case with fish.

02:11:52.000 Oh, it's definitely the case with fish.

02:11:54.000 Is it?

02:11:54.000 I go fishing.

02:11:55.000 You don't want to keep your 11-pound walleye.

02:11:56.000 You want to eat between three and really three-pound ones.

02:12:01.000 I went walleye fishing for the first time last year.

02:12:05.000 Good eating, huh?

02:12:06.000 Oh, yeah.

02:12:06.000 Perch and walleye.

02:12:07.000 Yeah, and Alberta, man.

02:12:08.000 How big they get?

02:12:09.000 2.5 meters.

02:12:10.000 Eight feet!

02:12:11.000 Oh my god!

02:12:13.000 They can weigh as much as 790 pounds!

02:12:16.000 Holy fucking shit!

02:12:19.000 Wow!

02:12:20.000 That is insane!

02:12:22.000 I had no idea!

02:12:23.000 Eight feet!

02:12:25.000 That could eat you.

02:12:26.000 700 fucking pounds!

02:12:28.000 That is so crazy.

02:12:30.000 Wow, I did not know they got that big.

02:12:33.000 Oh my god, eight feet.

02:12:35.000 Can you imagine Shaquille O'Neal, a foot bigger than him, is a grouper?

02:12:39.000 That's insane.

02:12:40.000 Look at the size of that thing!

02:12:42.000 There's one with a dude.

02:12:43.000 Oh my god.

02:12:45.000 This thing is bigger than the guy.

02:12:46.000 Look at the little fish that's staying on the other side of the guy going like, fuck, no, I'm not coming around.

02:12:50.000 I'll stay gonna hide behind you.

02:12:51.000 It's hoping that the grouper takes chunks out of that guy and leaves a little for him.

02:12:56.000 God, the ocean is awesome.

02:12:57.000 Yeah, it is.

02:12:58.000 The ocean is so amazing.

02:12:59.000 The deep ocean, the more you learn about it.

02:13:00.000 I mean, did you see in Japan that massive squid?

02:13:03.000 Squid, yeah.

02:13:04.000 That's crazy.

02:13:04.000 They're swimming with it.

02:13:05.000 I don't want to swim anywhere near that fucking thing.

02:13:07.000 Now, that's an evil predator right there.

02:13:09.000 You do not want to get stuck in those tentacles.

02:13:11.000 Oh yeah, they are really evil, and they're so big.

02:13:14.000 What's really nuts is that giant squid were just a myth a couple of decades ago.

02:13:18.000 They had no idea if they were real.

02:13:20.000 Like, they had never caught one of these things on camera.

02:13:23.000 Now they have one, it looked like it was in a bay somewhere.

02:13:26.000 Look, it was really close to boats.

02:13:27.000 It was crazy to look, to watch.

02:13:29.000 It was allowing people to swim with it.

02:13:30.000 Like, they never had caught one before.

02:13:32.000 Like, they didn't know if they were real.

02:13:34.000 Then they started catching them.

02:13:35.000 I wouldn't swim with that thing.

02:13:37.000 I wonder how they're catching them.

02:13:38.000 Because they're catching them much more frequently now.

02:13:41.000 Like, look at it.

02:13:41.000 Look at the video of it.

02:13:42.000 My god, what an amazing, amazing creature.

02:13:45.000 The entire body flexible.

02:13:48.000 Nothing but a beak.

02:13:50.000 It's the only thing that's hard.

02:13:52.000 Do you know they found evidence really recently of gigantic, some sort of octopus type species that would be like a kraken.

02:14:02.000 They're thinking by the size of the tentacles this thing would be 100 feet long.

02:14:06.000 And they found these enormous tentacles that were like, you know, dinner plates.

02:14:09.000 Yeah.

02:14:10.000 And they're saying, okay, well this is what the myths of the kraken have always been.

02:14:14.000 The kraken was always this gigantic tentacled monster that would eat anything.

02:14:19.000 Look at that fucking thing.

02:14:20.000 Well, it's hard to perspective.

02:14:21.000 When you see it with a person, you get a real good idea of how enormous it is.

02:14:25.000 But I think that thing is like 18 feet long or something crazy.

02:14:28.000 But these Krakens, there's nothing left of them when they die.

02:14:33.000 So what they found is the fossilized remains of the tentacles had died.

02:14:38.000 When it had died, the tentacles had left an imprint on the ground on the bottom of the ocean.

02:14:43.000 Oh, cool.

02:14:43.000 And so they got the fossilized remains of these tentacles.

02:14:46.000 They're like, holy shit.

02:14:48.000 And they realize, well, okay, this is where these myths come from.

02:14:51.000 This was a real creature.

02:14:53.000 It's amazing how little we know in terms of what the deep ocean has available to it in terms of animal life.

02:15:01.000 It's crazy.

02:15:01.000 We're discovering stuff every day.

02:15:03.000 Yeah, they say we know more about the moon than we know about the ocean.

02:15:06.000 Well, it's, what is it, 70% of the Earth or something like that?

02:15:10.000 I don't know.

02:15:11.000 Some giant percentage of the Earth is water, and the ocean floor, I think they've only examined like 5% of it, which is amazing.

02:15:18.000 So 95% of this incredible, essentially wild world, I mean, it is a wild world.

02:15:26.000 And it ultimately comes from the ocean.

02:15:28.000 I mean, the ocean is what gives us life.

02:15:30.000 That's where we have to respect it.

02:15:31.000 Supposedly, it all came from, right?

02:15:33.000 We all started off somehow or another as some little fucking fish thing.

02:15:36.000 I gotta watch more Cosmos.

02:15:37.000 That's another thing I can't get enough of.

02:15:39.000 Yeah, I know, right?

02:15:40.000 Yeah.

02:15:40.000 I'm so glad they brought that back, especially with Neil deGrasse Tyson.

02:15:43.000 He has a great podcast, too.

02:15:45.000 It's called StarTalk.

02:15:46.000 It's awesome.

02:15:47.000 It's really good.

02:15:48.000 Definitely check that out.

02:15:49.000 And it's all about a bunch of different subjects, too.

02:15:51.000 Like, he had a really cool one with David Byrne from The Talking Heads about creativity, and he's just a really interesting, curious guy, Neil deGrasse Tyson.

02:16:00.000 Yeah.

02:16:00.000 He's got a great demeanor.

02:16:02.000 And I like the way they do the Cosmos with the imagination and the animation.

02:16:10.000 It's great.

02:16:11.000 It's very engaging.

02:16:13.000 So we're good.

02:16:15.000 Anything else?

02:16:15.000 Yeah, solid.

02:16:16.000 Safesmooshy.com.

02:16:17.000 Follow me.

02:16:17.000 You never know when that Periscope broadcast is going to happen.

02:16:21.000 You have Periscope broadcast?

02:16:22.000 What do you do?

02:16:23.000 We say you never know.

02:16:25.000 You never know when that Periscope broadcast is going to happen.

02:16:28.000 So we should follow you on Twitter, WalrusWhisperer on Twitter.

02:16:32.000 Hit me up on Facebook and then Periscope.

02:16:34.000 That's how I keep my voice alive, man.

02:16:36.000 Well, we're going to help you, man.

02:16:37.000 We're going to help you keep your voice alive, for sure.

02:16:39.000 Can't thank you enough.

02:16:40.000 Thank you, brother.

02:16:40.000 Appreciate it.

02:16:41.000 All right, fuckers.

02:16:43.000 We'll be back tomorrow with the great Tom Segura.

02:16:45.000 Until then, much love.

02:16:46.000 Bye-bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 05, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #743 - Phil Demers

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