Carlos Condit and Erwan Leccecaught up with me to talk about what it takes to become a UFC welterweight champion, the importance of movement in MMA, and the best way to get the most out of your training. Carlos and I talk about how he became one of the best fighters in the world, and how he and his coach, Erwan, came together to create the best training environment for him and his opponent, Robbie Lawler. We also talk about the benefits of training with someone who has been in the UFC for so long, and what it means to be a good coach and a good martial artist. I hope you enjoy this episode, and if you do, please leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and we'll get back to you soon with a new episode! -Jon Sorrentino and Jon Rocha Thanks for tuning in, Jon & Jon! -Your support is greatly appreciated! -Evan & Carlos <3 -Jon & Jon "Live" -Jon and Jon - Carlos - Jon's YouTube channel: & Jon's Podcast: . Jon's Socials: , Jon and Jon's socials: . and is a great resource for all things UFC related! Jon & Carlos' social media accounts: ) , . , and . . is John's social media account: & . Thanks Jon's insta-profile : ( ) . , , Jon's ) . (Jon's bio ? ... Can't wait to hear back from you? can't wait for you guys have a question or comment about the next episode? , or a question you'd like us to know what you think of the next one? ? ? , ) , ... or any other thing you guys would like to see us do better? ? ? , etc.. Thank you guys sent in a question about the podcast? (sans or something like that? :) -- Jon's response to this one? --Jon's response? ) -- Thank you, Jon's comment about this one, Jon s response to a question I got back from a fan wrote in the last week's post about this post? ;)
00:00:20.000So, first of all, for folks who are not aware of the situation, what's going on, Carlos, professional MMA fighter, one of the best in the world, just fought for the welterweight title, extremely close fight against Robbie Lawler, and you spent a lot of your time this camp.
00:00:34.000How many camps was it when you trained with Erwan?
00:00:46.000As this sport grows and develops, we're looking at a sport that's really only realistically been around since 1993. That's when it sort of formed.
00:00:56.000Martial arts, of course, have been around forever, but as a sport where people really started picking it apart and trying to figure out what's the best way to pursue this, it's really only been since about 1993 when the UFC first started.
00:01:07.000And the most recent trend is guys trying to improve upon balance, movement, and their ability to close distances and attack And be in a position to constantly be able to do that in between those techniques.
00:01:26.000So instead of concentrating on just hitting pads or just shooting doubles or doing various drills, you're concentrating on the movements that take place in between those techniques.
00:02:01.000Actually, it's one of your comments that you were commanding on one of those UFC events and you talked about the current state of the welterweight division and at some point you talked about Carlos and he was still recovering from his injury and you said that at this point You know, he was 31 or three years old back then and it was a serious injury and that from then on it could only somewhat get slower.
00:02:24.000And that made me react because it was both true and not true.
00:02:41.000Right, and this is actually that comment that made me think, Carlos is right there, I need to reach out to him, I can train him, and I can show that there are some different methods that can bring results, even in seasoned fighters like Carlos.
00:03:00.000Training in the woods a lot when I was a kid.
00:03:02.000Moving in the woods, climbing trees, jumping from rock to rock and being encouraged to do that by my own dad.
00:03:12.000And then later on, I did some extreme trainings, I would say, in Paris with a very small group and we would climb scaffoldings and we would jump off bridges and we would Balance on top of the scaffoldings.
00:03:30.000It was a parallel movement because the founder of parkour, David Bell, was almost my neighbor and practically we're the same age but we didn't know each other back then and I was following an old guy and we would do these These trainings because we wanted to go against the normalcy,
00:03:52.000how heavy the inertia of normalcy, of wanting to know ourselves through movements and exercises and challenges that were completely out of this world.
00:04:07.000What do you mean by heavy, the inertia of normalcy?
00:05:09.000But what we need truly to get out of this is a strategy.
00:05:13.000The perception of oneself that is different, and then the strategy that's in line with that perception of a stronger self, a more free self.
00:05:22.000I know it's very philosophical, but while you ask me about it, I'm just telling you the way I think about it.
00:05:30.000If I had followed the box, the textbooks, the conventions, I would not be in the place I am today.
00:05:38.000I would not have done what I've created.
00:05:41.000So it's a philosophy as much as it's a training modality.
00:05:45.000Because everything in life is philosophy, but you call it philosophy, outlook, perspective, opinion, values, whatever you call it.
00:05:55.000It's something in your mind is a certain perception that makes you see yourself, see the world a certain way and behave accordingly.
00:06:03.000A bodybuilder You may think that's purely physical, but it's not.
00:06:08.000The guy who wants to be big has a perception of himself as being very big, and he's going to train accordingly.
00:06:14.000So it always starts with the perception, and then you behave accordingly.
00:06:19.000So everything in that sense is philosophy.
00:06:22.000Now, when you met this character, what was it?
00:06:27.000Why do all these movement teachers look like Jesus?
00:06:30.000Because that's a question that's been coming up over and over again on the forums and I feel obligated to ask.
00:06:36.000I think they are of the naturalistic persuasion.
00:06:46.000So, first impression of Erwin was that he was very intense.
00:06:51.000You know, we went and we, you know, there's a wooded area there in Albuquerque and we, you know, I thought we were going to go play around, you know, walk on some, you know, walk on some logs and just kick it and immediately it's like...
00:08:17.000I know that guys have said that it doesn't take, but when guys say it doesn't take, I always wonder if they were training too hard, too quick.
00:08:24.000So I have a good friend who's an orthopedic surgeon, and he told me that It's strong initially because they use somebody's Achilles tendon, which is four times thicker than your actual ACL. It's 150% stronger than a regular ACL. But as your body's assimilating it,
00:09:18.000That wasn't my experience, thankfully.
00:09:20.000From what I've talked to doctors, that's exactly how they said it, too, that you feel really good and you start training hard, then you blow it out.
00:10:04.000Because a lot of people, they structure their camps, they're very regimented.
00:10:07.000They have particular days for strength and conditioning, and it's all sort of designed so that they have enough time to recover for their skill work, and especially if you're working at specific techniques for a specific type of fighter.
00:10:19.000And you would have to incorporate all these things, and then this movement training and stuff as well.
00:10:26.000How would you figure out when to put that in?
00:11:10.000My strength and conditioning, the place that I go, we do a lot of different things.
00:11:17.000They use some biofeedback software that's pretty cool.
00:11:24.000You stick some fucking sticky pads on your body and like an EKG thing, and it can actually tell you physiologically what your readiness level is.
00:11:33.000And this has been being used by a ton of different You know, professional teams, collegiate teams and professional teams, and Olympians.
00:11:49.000No, this, what it does is it measures heart rate variability and central nervous system activity and the correlation between the two and whatever their algorithm is that they've come up with to figure out, you know, the, you know, What the correlation means,
00:12:07.000they can, you know, you got a little dumb screen that shows you blue or green, you know, yellow, red.
00:12:13.000As far as your trainability, I can, you know, I can do strength and speed, but my power and strength, you know, level readiness is down.
00:13:11.000And your relationship with Erwan, when you guys first started, how did you work in the movement training with all the other stuff that you were doing?
00:14:27.000Well, first off, Carlos is surrounded by a team of world-class people.
00:14:34.000The person he was talking about, Adrian of Elevate in Albuquerque, is a strength and conditioning coach.
00:14:40.000He works specifically with him on this area of this training, and then there's Brendan Gibson, and then there's Ricky Landell, and then of course there's Greg Jackson and Wayne Conjol.
00:14:50.000So me, I had to address areas of this training that I believed were lacking.
00:14:59.000If I was to find a word to describe what we've been training with him, I would say, Carlos, we've been training your brain.
00:15:06.000Because the number one reason why we have a brain from an evolutionary perspective is for movement.
00:15:12.000It's not to discuss fine wine or the history of art, which is great, but originally it's so that an animal can navigate through complex movement, through complex environments.
00:15:24.000That's the reason why we have a brain.
00:15:27.000Intensity is not necessarily raising the heart rate, you know, going really hard and burning all over.
00:15:35.000Intensity can be in the mindfulness that you apply to intentionally perform movement very specifically with a high level of efficiency.
00:15:47.000That requires a level of focus that challenges, stimulates, and helps the connective functions grow.
00:15:56.000As a matter of fact, movement itself is a major, if not the major secret or reason for helping connective functions.
00:16:11.000It does a whole deal of things, you know, processes in the brain that's going to help it grow.
00:16:22.000And what you acquire through movement transfers to any area of life, but obviously transfers to better movement.
00:16:31.000And better movement is not always just more power or new techniques.
00:16:43.000You are extremely seasoned, extremely experienced.
00:16:46.000And I bet that you've tried diverse modalities of training, but that currently every camp is pretty much the same in terms of preparation, except what's specific to a game plan for a given opponent.
00:17:03.000So I said, you may try to acquire more power.
00:17:08.000It's going to take a lot of energy because you have already a lot of power for your weight category.
00:17:16.000You may try to acquire more endurance, but that's going to be putting a lot of time, a lot of energy to get that.
00:17:24.000You can try to learn more techniques, but you know already so many techniques.
00:17:28.000So one of the things that you can do is to move better.
00:17:33.000So any technique that you already know, we want to perform them Better.
00:17:39.000Okay, so what is involved in movement training?
00:17:42.000Say it's day one, you get a guy and he says, hey, I love this idea, hook me up.
00:17:50.000Well, in the case of Carlos, it had to be something specific to him as a fighter, to what I saw.
00:17:59.000I saw, you know, what are his fortes, his strong points, but I also saw what I believed were Deficiencies.
00:18:07.000And that may seem presumptuous, but when I talked to him about it, what I saw that could be improved, he said, well, that's exactly what I've been told for years by my coaches.
00:18:19.000I thought that his stance was too high.
00:18:22.000He used mostly this particular, you know, typically Thai boxing square stance, you know, with his feet in the L shape.
00:18:32.000And to me that caused a ton of instabilities but also prevented him from being as fast as I believe he could be in moving in and out or sideways.
00:18:42.000So what adjustments did you make as far as the stance?
00:18:48.000The position of his back foot is orientated at a 90 degree angle.
00:18:53.000So we moved it forward more at a 45 degree angle.
00:18:58.000But the problem when we did that is that when we have a square stance, basically your feet are in line.
00:19:04.000So if you move, you are relatively stable only because the back foot is going that way.
00:19:10.000Now when you move it that way, you shrink a bit your base of support.
00:20:03.000I've been training, you know, Muay Thai since I was 15 years old.
00:20:08.000And so, yeah, I mean, these things have been, you know, have been stratified in my freaking, you know, my muscle memory for years.
00:20:20.000So yeah, it took quite a bit of, and I probably, you still see me going back to my old habits.
00:20:26.000You're going to, especially when you're tired or you're stressed or you're in different situations, you're going to revert back to the thing that you've trained the most.
00:20:32.000But when I'm mindful of it, for the most part, I definitely think that the improvements or the adjustments we've made We're major improvements.
00:20:43.000We also worked on, instead of being real, real heavy on my front leg, having more of an upright stance as far as my torso and not being so heavy, being more 50-50 on my legs.
00:20:55.000That allowed me to move in and out faster, not only forward but back.
00:21:01.000That showed big time in the fight against Tiago Alves.
00:21:04.000I think that was the reason I was able to You know get in get inside land with the elbows as effectively as I did and You know and then kind of you know get get the fight rolling we're seeing some I love watching different Sort of patterns that are developing the fighters start following but one of the things that we're seeing There's a lot of people that are standing in more of a karate stance More sideways and wider stance.
00:21:31.000And with that, like sort of Lyoto Machida style, Gunnar Nelson likes to fight like that.
00:21:36.000You can bounce, Conor McGregor, you bounce in and out easier.
00:21:40.000It seems like a lighter footprint sort of stance.
00:21:44.000Yeah, and that's very much what we were aiming at.
00:22:04.000I must say that working with Carlos and he's extremely focused actually.
00:22:11.000When he trained there was like no, it was like a zero fat kind of training like completely entirely focused from the beginning to the end.
00:22:19.000Always really applied himself during the training and I know that he drilled a lot also on his own in between every session to make those adjustments to make them become second nature.
00:22:31.000Because when you change any aspect of your technique, at first it feels unnatural because your brain is, you know, you have something, certain patterns that are ingrained in your neuromuscular memory and they are a little hard to change.
00:22:48.000But Carlos was able to change things really fast, actually, and I was always impressed by how fast he would make those progresses.
00:22:57.000And again, those progresses were not That much physical, you know, in the sense of strength and conditioning, like it would have to work hard.
00:23:15.000What you need is that map in your brain somewhere to really understand, recognize, identify, and assimilate fully that particular pattern.
00:23:27.000You've done so many movements, so much footwork, but that way to do it requires a different wiring between the mind and the body, between the brain and the body.
00:23:42.000That's a big part of it, right, is just patterns and getting those patterns ingrained in your system to the point where they come out automatically.
00:23:50.000Like, you know those movements that happen either in sparring or in competition where all of a sudden you're executing something and you had zero thought.
00:23:59.000It's just completely your training takes over.
00:24:02.000You slip a punch and counter and you don't even...
00:24:11.000Exactly, and that's what stimulated Carlos' brain that much, that he had to take a nap after every training, whereas he's used to really, really hard training.
00:24:22.000But with that training, which is relatively low intensity and The brain is so stimulated that it needs to recover because it needs to process while it is...
00:24:35.000It's like if the movement, the mindful movement is the input that the brain needs to do that re-circuiting differently and to deconstruct old patterns,
00:24:52.000replace them with more efficient patterns.
00:24:55.000And that didn't happen while we were doing it.
00:24:57.000You know, while we were doing it, a lot of the times I was struggling with this stuff.
00:25:01.000But I'd go home and I would rest and I'd go back to my regular training, work a little bit on it, not a whole lot, but then the next time I would come back, it was almost as if my...
00:25:12.000My mind and my body had digested this stuff and assimilated and put it into practical application unconsciously, without me even really working on it too much.
00:25:26.000He says that I would work in the meantime between our sessions.
00:26:34.000And I found that to be really interesting.
00:26:36.000And when I watched what you guys were doing, a lot of this barefoot jumping and leaping and balancing, and it requires some pretty extreme foot stability.
00:26:45.000It's the number one thing we addressed with cars.
00:26:54.000Not that feet have a brain, but there is an extremely strong correlation between the proprioception in the foot and the brain and movement.
00:27:05.000So most of the time when we move we're on our feet and that's the reason why there are so many Sensors, nerve terminations in the feet.
00:28:16.000We talk about the elasticity of the muscles in the feet to be sometimes more bouncy, just simply faster, to be also more endurant, to last longer with that elasticity and speed.
00:28:33.000And we did a lot of that through balancing drills, even like loaded balancing drills, but also specific footwork drills.
00:28:44.000And it was not only the footwork itself, it's also how the level of alertness that you have in relation to an openet and the level of responsiveness that you have in your movement in relation to an openet.
00:28:57.000Because it's not just reinforcing a particular part of your body as if you're made of parts.
00:29:04.000We had to make sure that anything would improve specifically then would be brought back to the whole spectrum, which is movement in a fight and work and actually improve.
00:29:15.000And that's what Carlos did every time when he would go sparring.
00:29:19.000And then he would see by himself and then tell me back, I've improved this, I've improved that, and my coaches see it too.
00:29:27.000So the proof is in the pudding, as Carlos would always say, it works.
00:29:33.000You know, most people would think that if you're a fit guy and you're a strong guy, and you know, like say maybe you do squats or something like that, you'd have strong feet.
00:29:41.000And one of the things that shocked me the most when I started doing yoga is that's what would give out.
00:29:47.000I was like this is so bizarre like I felt like okay if I could stand on one foot like if you made me stand here on one foot with my sneakers on it's not hard I'll stand on one foot you know okay no big deal but when you're balancing my feet would fucking ache you know like you're doing like bow pose or something like that you got one leg up here and your arm is stretched forward and you're balancing my feet would be what was giving out and I started thinking about how little stability You know,
00:30:16.000most people probably have from training with shoes on, lifting weights with shoes on, doing running with like big thick cushy shoes, all those things.
00:30:26.000Even elite athletes and even elite MMA fighters.
00:30:31.000And the reason why, even when they are training barefoot in dojos or in gyms, but you have to think of what's the background of a given person.
00:30:41.000Most people today in modern populations grow up Indoors.
00:31:09.000If you're trying MMA because you're going to do, you know, say, striking, move on your feet, it's going to help.
00:31:16.000Definitely, it's going to help your foot strength, your foot mobility, your foot stability, but not as much as what you're going to gain when you have to balance on...
00:31:29.000On narrow surfaces or in certain positions, in certain transitions, kneeling and sitting and get ups and get down, especially with loads on or at a certain pace, at a certain speed.
00:31:44.000And when you make the feet stronger, then your footwork is stronger.
00:31:48.000When we talk about movement coaching, some people are confused because when they hear movement in relation to fighting, they think footwork.
00:31:57.000And it is footwork, but it's also more than that.
00:32:01.000Do you remember a few years back, it was all the rage, you were hearing about a lot of NFL players were doing ballet.
00:32:21.000In that if they're doing it, but if you think about ballet, the movements are incredibly difficult, and especially if you're a 260-pound fucking stud athlete covered in muscles.
00:32:32.000There was a guy that was in a yoga class recently.
00:32:52.000You have a whole mountain that's built on a very weak foundation.
00:32:57.000So ballet, even for NFL players, was actually a very smart move because when you look at the strength of the cows, I had a Kudzin who was a professional dancer.
00:33:12.000Her calves, her foot strength was completely amazing because, you know, they do this gracious movement.
00:33:18.000People see the grace, but they make extraordinary movement look easy, but they're not.
00:33:23.000Like floor gymnasts too, I would imagine, because they have to stick, like your foot has to have the ability to catch you and then just stay in that position completely locked in.
00:33:51.000I saw you doing, in some of the countdown shows, you were doing a lot of jumping over things and standing and jumping onto what looks like a board and landing on what looks like a 2x4 or something like that and locking in place on that.
00:35:14.000As I was training him, I was constantly adjusting the movement programs, what was in every session, to what I saw was working, what I saw was not working, depending on the level of progress that it was making, we would do something more difficult or at a higher level of intensity.
00:35:32.000It's tailored, it's customized, not random.
00:35:37.000This is very interesting because I would imagine that You would get athletes from a bunch of different sports that would come to you, right?
00:36:21.000However, I do draw from the history of physical education, which I have studied a lot, especially what comes from Europe.
00:36:30.000And in my case, because I'm originally from France, there used to be a method called the natural method by a guy called Georges Baer, Who himself was not...
00:36:41.000He was seen as a pioneer, but himself was, you know, at some point, that long line of people.
00:36:49.000Before him was Amoros and Pestalozzi and Mercurialis, a lot of guys who were working on these different methods.
00:37:23.000Because these are the movements that people needed back then, that they were in the military or firefighters.
00:37:32.000And when you look at it today, if there is a situation that's potentially life-threatening, These are still the movements that you need to do to save your life or to save somebody else's life.
00:37:45.000They're natural, but they are natural also to the point that they are vital.
00:39:07.000Well, you just need to keep the training never too hard, never too easy.
00:39:14.000That was actually also my concern when I started to train Carlos because he was recovering and I was extremely worried that I wouldn't do anything that would...
00:39:24.000Compromise, recover in any way that would actually help him recover even faster.
00:39:29.000So you have a method only when it's scalable and also when it is progressive.
00:39:34.000And because these movements are natural, they belong to all of us.
00:39:39.000It's like, what would be the best way to train a wild tiger?
00:39:45.000Can you imagine that you're going to try to isolate their, you know, their hind legs and then try to have them do another workout for the front legs and then put them on a treadmill for cardio?
00:40:00.000That would be hilarious because to be optimally strong and agile and like a good hunter, a good predator...
00:40:08.000The wild tiger just needs to be and behave and move like a wild tiger in its original environment.
00:40:14.000But I think if you get a tiger on an inverted treadmill and really push that motherfucker, have some good music going, maybe some motivational videos.
00:40:26.000Well, you know, they do that with pit bulls.
00:40:29.000You know, pit bulls, when they train them for fighting, they put them on treadmills.
00:40:34.000They put them on a treadmill that's sort of self-propelled, like the animals propelling the treadmill, and they'll put something in front of it that it wants to get to.
00:41:18.000They're just sitting in offices and cubicles or what have you.
00:41:21.000And the cause of most of their physical ailments is that improper movement behavior, lack of movement or too specialized movement, lack of diversity.
00:41:34.000And the good thing is that the antidote for that is movement also, movement behaviors.
00:41:40.000Movement behavior is the cause and the solution to a lot of physical issues.
00:41:45.000Yeah, so when you think about it, what do we do?
00:41:47.000We fucking stand, we sit, we lay, we bend.
00:44:24.000We go through, we're using various energy systems.
00:44:28.000We go from going aerobic to anaerobic to using an isometric hold all the way back through So many different things involved, because basically we're able to do whatever the fuck we want in there under a very limited amount of rules.
00:44:45.000So training this way just makes sense.
00:44:51.000It's much more along the lines of what we're actually going to do in competition.
00:44:56.000How much of a factor does flexibility play?
00:45:00.000And how often do you train flexibility?
00:45:06.000A lot of flexibility is huge, mobility is huge because the more mobility you can explore, manifest physically a full range of motion, but it also plays a huge role in how relaxed you are and therefore how much power you can generate.
00:45:28.000That's actually one of the main points focused on the second camp that we did for the fight for Robi.
00:46:22.000And so when you try to somewhat force a little your mobility, what creates is instability.
00:46:26.000And it slows down the movement and then you also lose accuracy and power and accuracy.
00:46:32.000So we did tons of stretching, but we did that stretching through natural movement, through a lot of movement on the ground and yeah, through those natural patterns.
00:46:47.000So I think, and tell me if you agree, in MMA as opposed to traditional martial arts, I think we skip over a lot of the intricacies.
00:47:56.000You need to be able to get out there and bite down on your mouthpiece and throw down when the time comes.
00:48:03.000But if you have that, you can always go back and work on that other stuff.
00:48:07.000And that's what I feel like I did quite a bit with Erwin.
00:48:13.000Making these tweaks on these very fundamental things that had been skipped over because...
00:48:20.000You know, I'm, you know, I'm kind of, I'm built to be a, I got, I got the fighter thing here.
00:48:24.000Um, and you put me, you know, against whoever, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fucking go.
00:48:29.000But now let's just refine, let's refine, let's refine and, and, uh, um, Maximize the potential of what I can do.
00:48:39.000Yeah, it seems like almost having that kind of go-go-go mentality, that fighter mentality, it's obviously a huge benefit when you're in a fight, but it almost seems like maybe sometimes it's against your benefit when you're training, because when you're training,
00:48:56.000you almost should be looking at it like a science.
00:48:59.000You almost should be looking at, instead of just trying to be the toughest guy in the room, you should almost be looking at it like you're building a castle.
00:49:07.000You have to make sure the foundation is good.
00:49:09.000And in traditional martial arts, you have your white belt techniques.
00:49:13.000And then, you know, as you develop in the ranks and you get new belts, you move up and you get higher ranks.
00:49:20.000One of the things you say, you get higher techniques or more difficult techniques, but one of the things you see in MMA is there's guys that have mastered, like truly mastered one particular aspect of MMA. Damien Maia is a perfect example.
00:49:34.000He's a legitimate jiu-jitsu master, world champion.
00:49:37.000And because of that, his specialty is so strong that when he gets to that spot, he's just got this massive advantage over almost anybody.
00:49:48.000And you see that when he fights really good guys, like Gunnar Nelson.
00:50:57.000You stand up with pretty much anybody.
00:51:00.000I put your stand-up at a very high level.
00:51:02.000But your submissions are very good too, man.
00:51:06.000If you spent five years and did nothing but jiu-jitsu every day and started competing in the Mundials and Abu Dhabi and Naga and all that shit, and who knows what the fuck your jiu-jitsu would be like.
00:53:16.000You know, you can loosen your legs up a little bit.
00:53:19.000You know, your footwork, your stance takes a different position because you're not squared off, always looking to sprawl and hit underhooks.
00:53:33.000I'm a well-rounded fighter, but I went in there and had a kickboxing fight with Robbie.
00:53:39.000Well, I thought that would actually be to your benefit, because what I said in the pre-fight thing was that issues you've had in the past with guys who've been able to hold on to you and grab you down, like Hendrix, and that that might be a benefit to you in the Robbie Lawler fight,
00:53:54.000because fucking Robbie, he's a gladiator.
00:53:57.000I mean, that dude, he's so rare in that regard.
00:55:09.000All of the scariest aspects of MMA as far as damage and what you guys are doing to each other and all the greatest aspects of MMA as far as display of heart and courage and willpower and just determination because you had to be burning.
00:56:10.000Honestly, I remember at certain points...
00:56:12.000I guess the only thing that I could compare it to was being in the ocean and having waves crashing on you and you're just...
00:56:23.000Getting your head above water just to get enough breath, and then boom, you're getting another one crashing down upon you, and you are out of breath, you're fucking struggling for survival, and you're just doing your best to come up.
00:56:40.000A moment like that and a fight like that has got to be something that fuels you in a way that nothing else can when you're in the gym because you know that those moments can happen.
00:56:50.000Like when you're thinking about slowing down in a strength and conditioning program or when you're doing rounds in the bag and you're thinking about slowing down, that moment's like thinking about that fight.
00:57:25.000How do you quantify that when it comes to a fight camp?
00:57:29.000And one of the things that Nick Kurson was saying when I talked to him about it is, like, he believes that when a fighter comes to him or when a fighter is preparing for a fight, they already have all these skills.
00:57:44.000When it comes down to what a camp is, he believes that the primary focus should be on physical preparation.
00:57:51.000The primary focus should be on getting your body to be able to perform at an extremely high output for a long time and recover quickly.
00:57:59.000And if you can get there, the benefits of that are greater than the benefits of just consistently working on skill training and drilling and all these other things.
00:58:08.000I think there has to be a balance because you can be in phenomenal fucking shape, ready to go five rounds and then step out and get knocked the fuck out in a couple of seconds.
00:59:09.000Yeah, and then you get these other guys, you're like, really?
00:59:12.000He's fighting who in the UFC? And you're seeing him training, you're like, oh man, I don't know how well this, I don't know if I want to watch this, he's a nice guy, he's gonna get worked.
00:59:20.000And then he goes out there and does work and rises to the occasion and accomplishes something that maybe you and maybe not even he realized that he could do.
00:59:33.000Yeah, it's an interesting thing to try to figure out where the balance, where the focus should be.
00:59:39.000And I think it's different for everybody, man.
01:01:10.000The preparation for one night, like the idea that you're, especially for a guy like you who came off of a knee surgery, you're out for a year, and then you have...
01:01:22.000You were out for more than a year before the Tiago fight, right?
01:01:36.000How difficult is it to just be in the moment when that happens and not be overwhelmed by the fact that so much of your future is riding on this, you're not entirely set for life financially yet.
01:01:52.000You know, there's all these different variables.
01:01:54.000You have a wife, you have a child, you have a family, you have obligations, you have all these things, but yet here you are preparing for this one completely It just slips through your fingers, this moment.
01:02:27.000You know, that night could be the best night of your life or the worst, and you don't know fucking which one.
01:02:33.000And there's an incredible mix of emotions, and I feel happy, I feel sad, I feel fucking nervous, I feel elated to be there, and then fucking scared as shit,
01:02:50.000And I really just have to ride it out and be...
01:02:55.000Trust in my training trust in the preparation that I've done up to that point Because man my mind and my emotions do all sorts of things But I just have to know that I've done what I need to do in preparation For this fight that I'm gonna be alright and that no matter what I know that I will never give anything less than 100%,
01:03:17.000I will never give anything less than what you saw in that fight.
01:03:22.000I may get knocked out, or it may be an early night for me, it may be a terrible night, but that's out of my control.
01:03:30.000I gave everything that I could to each round, each training session, each minute of...
01:03:39.000Of the training camps so that when I step out there, I've done everything in my control to fucking win this fight and to compete to the best of my ability.
01:03:50.000There's also the things that are out of your control.
01:04:52.000Yeah, between 190, 195. If you could be assured that that is just, that's what your opponent's going to weigh, that's what you're going to weigh, you don't have to cut any weight, wouldn't you think that that would be a better way to compete, to just completely eliminate that from the equation?
01:05:06.000Just find out whatever is your natural healthy weight, And compete at that instead of this insane thing that everyone's doing where they're dehydrating themselves.
01:05:16.000A massive percentage of your body weight, sometimes as much as 10% of your body weight, just getting sucked away in water to the point where you could literally only exist in that state for a short period of time.
01:06:58.000But if you can eliminate that and test hydration levels, imagine a guy like Johnny Hendricks who never made it to the fight with Tyron Woodley because of the weight cutting.
01:07:07.000Imagine them getting to a point where they check him and they go, Hey, man, you're fucking dehydrated.
01:07:15.000You're not where you're supposed to be.
01:07:20.000I'm on the side of health for fighters and guys taking care of themselves.
01:07:26.000We're doing this for a very brief period of time in our lives and the repercussions long-term from a lot of the different stuff involved, including weight cutting, this is going to have long-term ramifications.
01:08:06.000I'm used to eating a bunch of bullshit, and now I'm all of a sudden eating greens, which is good for you, but your body's still going to have this reaction to it when you're not used to it.
01:08:17.000So, yeah, I would definitely like to see some change.
01:08:21.000If it benefits the health of fighters, I'm all for it.
01:08:23.000I don't think it could possibly not benefit them.
01:08:26.000I think that would be the biggest thing that we could do, even more so than...
01:08:29.000I think what Jeff Nowitzki and the UFC is trying to do with eliminating performance-enhancing drugs is awesome.
01:08:36.000I love the fact they're catching people.
01:08:38.000I can't believe that they caught Yoel Romero.
01:08:40.000Who would have thought that that guy was taking steroids?
01:09:32.000And you can come off hot down the way, which is, that is cool.
01:09:35.000They're super close to being able to catch you doing anything now, but what they're doing is they're coming up with all these little designer things and peptides, and that's what Yoel Romero got caught for, some designer peptide which artificially increases your body's own production of testosterone.
01:09:51.000So they're doing all this sneaky, weird shit that used to be totally undetectable five, six years ago or what have you.
01:09:59.000Yeah, well, I think that's what they've been doing for a long time, correct?
01:10:02.000It's been like an arms race between the dopers and the anti-dopers.
01:10:09.000That's what I understand with Lance Armstrong.
01:10:50.000And I think what they were, probably what they were taking is different than what fucking, you know, what these big muscled up, you know, prize fighters are taking.
01:10:58.000Well, another important distinction about these bans and about the banning of IV rehydration is now you can't blood dope.
01:12:09.000Well, Nowitzki was telling me that they've now figured out a way to develop testosterone from animals, and it's semi-theoretical at this point.
01:12:18.000They haven't caught anybody who's done it yet, and that may be one of the reasons why they're holding onto this blood for eight years.
01:12:25.000But he said they've figured out a way, because right now, I don't understand the process, but right now the way they develop artificial testosterone is through wild yams.
01:12:53.000So they've figured out a way through these carbon isotope tests to detect that the testosterone in your body was non-endogenous, that it was exogenous, that it somehow or another came from something else.
01:13:06.000But they won't be able to do this, right now at least, with animal testosterone, which is so fucking bizarre.
01:13:16.000It will always be a race between the cheaters and those who control those.
01:13:21.000With the French Tour de France cyclism biking back in the early 20th century, they were doing it already.
01:13:31.000And then today, every Sunday, there's some competition somewhere, like a local short-distance triathlon and those Sunday athletes, and they're dope.
01:13:41.000Yeah, they're saying that executives that want to show off are taking EPO and entering in triathlons and winning them.
01:13:51.000Jack to the tits on EPO, which is really fucking dangerous, apparently.
01:13:55.000I don't understand EPO, but the way it's been described to me was that when you have so much extra blood in your system, there's a high risk of stroke.
01:14:05.000And that you have to mitigate the amount of EPO and the amount of blood in your system by constantly exercising.
01:14:17.000As we talk, millions of people are doing crazy things in their day-to-day life that are going to mess up with their brain, mess up with their whole physiology and hormonal balance and stuff like that.
01:14:28.000And they're not getting paid to do it.
01:14:30.000They just do it out of whatever ignorance or laziness or...
01:14:33.000So why wouldn't these professional athletes, some of them...
01:14:39.000Yeah, I mean, there's one thing, winning a bike race is one thing, but not getting kicked in the head or being able to kick the guy in the head because you have that extra juice of energy.
01:14:48.000You know, when you're tired and you're in that fifth round, but you come out because you're on EPO and you're fucking Dominick Cruz stepping and throwing high kicks and the other dude is gasping for air.
01:15:33.000What's interesting to me though, I'm absolutely anti-doping, but I'm pro the science involved in it because what we're experiencing right now, what I believe, is that we are in a period of time in human history where our understanding and the scientific understanding of the body and its mechanisms and all the things they can do to it is being sort of deciphered and tweaked and poked by all these various scientists Although I believe that that should be outside
01:16:03.000of competitive athletics, we're going to get to a point in, you know, who knows, 10, 20, 30 years, where they're going to be able to genetically re-engineer human beings.
01:16:12.000And this is all going to be out the window.
01:16:14.000I think we're kind of experiencing the last years of natural competition.
01:16:22.000I mean, they have this new thing that they've figured out how to do, where they, because of, there's this really interesting science, it's called CRISPR, is what they've developed, and I'll butcher it if I try to give the scientific definition of it,
01:16:39.000but they can literally add genes and manipulate genes, and they're doing so in small animals and, you know, Small multicellular organisms and they're getting it to a point where they really understand it and they're saying that in China they're starting to do this with human beings and they're starting to fuck with it and test it and you know you might see some Chinese Wolverine type dudes in the next 20 years and you'll know well that that kid's the product of these
01:17:09.000Chinese experiments you know I mean that's what they used to call Corellin they used to call Corellin the experiment Because if you've ever seen Corellin's family, his mother and father are like 5'6".
01:17:54.000He was so scary that guys would try to flatten out to keep from getting thrown by him, because he was so strong, that he would take these men, 280 pound men, and he would just go under them while their belly down, flattened out on the mat, just praying they don't get taken for a ride.
01:18:11.000And he would lift them up and throw them through the air with all his weight and their weight, BOOM! Coming down on them.
01:18:18.000So he's essentially knocking them the fuck out with the mat.
01:18:22.000Where everybody else was wrestling, you know?
01:18:24.000He was wrestling as well, but he was also hitting you with the world, you know?
01:18:29.000It was crazy, and no one knows how he got so fucking big.
01:18:33.000In history of sports, there are always these freaks of nature, these completely exceptional athletes in a given sport, but with what you say and the manipulations they're going to be able to do on On physiology, maybe using nanotechnologies or indeed genetic modifications.
01:18:51.000They might be able to replicate, to clone those freaks of science.
01:21:47.000But my concern is that this kind of new technology is going to be available to millions of people who basically don't give a crap about their body.
01:21:56.000Their body has become completely alien to themselves and they neglect it and they let it deteriorate.
01:22:04.000You could think about it that way, or you could say, you know what, man, it's just technology.
01:22:13.000I mean, cars could be used to get places, or you could be a fat fuck, and they could just wheel you over to your car, and you ooze your way into the car, and they push you in and shut the door, and then the car drives you around because you're too fucking lazy.
01:22:23.000It's the balance, and I think in our society...
01:23:58.000And what is the implication on a societal level, on an overall thing?
01:24:04.000We can look at technology in general in that respect.
01:24:11.000I like to see that as options, as additional benefits to our current society and culture.
01:24:20.000It means that, let's imagine utopia, like a society where every individual would consider their own health and movement ability as somewhat their personal biological benefits.
01:24:33.000So they would really make sure that they stay strong, they stay healthy, they can move, they're in shape, they're sharp physically and mentally.
01:24:41.000And on top of that, whenever needed, they would punctually and wisely use those technologies.
01:24:47.000Then that would be an enhanced lifestyle in society.
01:24:50.000But when you have people, it's just there to support people who have voluntarily disempowered themselves, degenerated themselves.
01:25:00.000I don't like the direction where that would be going.
01:25:02.000Aren't we basing that on the current paradigm, though?
01:25:05.000If we keep moving in the same direction, it's entirely possible that you're not going to need to be in shape or get in shape.
01:25:14.000You're going to have something that they've invented, whether it's some sort of a biotechnology or what have you, where you never get out of shape.
01:27:25.000And the bad shit that comes with it, though.
01:27:28.000So, you know, what, 50 years ago they started, or maybe longer, I don't know, they started making fucking processed foods.
01:27:35.000And that was like the best thing ever.
01:27:37.000Oh my god, we don't have to fucking cook our food anymore.
01:27:39.000We could have it made for us in a factory and we just throw it in the oven and it's done.
01:27:44.000Boom, this is the greatest thing ever, you know?
01:27:47.000Fast forward, you know, 30, 40 years and now we're fat and unhealthy and our, you know, our national GDP, you know, for our healthcare is fucking, you know, our healthcare cost exceeds our fucking gross domestic product for the fucking United States.
01:28:46.000There are thousands and thousands of chemicals in all your hygiene products that you breathe, that go through your pores, that go in your system, that alter your homophysis and stuff like that.
01:28:59.000Maybe you're eating GMO. Maybe everything is altered in your day to life and you see it as something normal.
01:30:45.000Well, that's one of the things that I love about forests and trees is that you can physically feel the difference in the air because trees literally absorb carbon dioxide and express oxygen.
01:30:59.000They produce oxygen and you breathe it in.
01:31:04.000Enhancements when you're living within an environment that is tremendously deteriorated, completely altered.
01:31:10.000Then you're like, oh my god, I need better air and more natural food.
01:31:14.000I need to try to make my house a bit more complex so that it stimulates my movement and things like that.
01:31:22.000That's because you're already out of a universally, I would say, a universally natural environment.
01:31:29.000Comprising not just where you are, but What you eat, how you breathe, the light, and even your own behaviors, how much you sleep, how you think.
01:31:38.000All of that is behavior and environment.
01:31:41.000And all that will impact you positively or not in terms of how you look, how well you perform, how you feel.
01:33:37.000Through my own practice, through my own practical applications of running through these training camps, running through these weight cuts, and absorbing information, going out there and looking at information myself.
01:33:49.000Have kind of figured it out pretty much on my own.
01:33:57.000And so that helps out because I'm cooking for fun, kind of as a cathartic thing after I'm training, but it works well because I'm cooking the nutrient-dense food that I need to perform and to train and to make weight and to be a high-level athlete.
01:34:18.000I saw that you and Erwan were working on bowhunting exercises.
01:38:00.000So with regards to the bow hunting stuff, honestly, the stuff that we were doing wasn't a whole lot different than what we were working on for the training camps.
01:38:09.000We were working foot, ankle, knee, hip stability in complex environments, in walking on logs or navigating different terrain while staying aware of my surroundings.
01:38:23.000If I'm fucking sitting there looking at my feet and stumbling over myself, And worrying so much about being quiet and where I'm standing.
01:38:32.000Fuck, I might miss a goddamn something right there.
01:39:25.000And everybody was all about the minimal footwear.
01:39:29.000But if you go too minimal too fast, you're going to hurt your feet because our feet...
01:39:34.000Our bones, our tendons, our muscles are atrophied from being in basically casts for our entire life.
01:39:43.000And all of a sudden, I'm going to go run a couple miles like I did in these supportive shoes and you're going to get stress fractures, you're going to get all kinds of injuries.
01:39:50.000So I think the military, a couple of the branches banned the five-finger shoes or the five, yeah, that's what they're called.
01:40:42.000There's many more benefits beyond just making your feet tougher.
01:40:47.000It's so fascinating that in the invention of the running shoe, which they thought was an advancement, oh, we're going to put cushioning, it'll save people's bodies, the wear and tear, and it actually wound up fucking people up and getting more injured.
01:42:45.000You start resetting your body in a more natural way through these natural movement patterns and you can do that in indoors environment even wearing some minimal footwear and then you remove the footwear and then you start to expose the body through this natural movement on more challenging more complex environments.
01:43:06.000Ultimately if you want to you can become You can go through these more, say, badass trainings where it's like the real deal.
01:43:45.000So you need to be aware of what's going on, you need to avoid being detected, and you need to look and scan your surroundings and be as light as possible, as silent as possible.
01:43:57.000If you're already in trouble with your movement, if you're already struggling with your movement, how much of your brain activity and awareness is going to be dedicated to the situation itself, which is the hunting part.
01:44:17.000It's not just a matter of, oh, I have some cardio, so I'm good.
01:44:20.000No, well, maybe you have a hard time just kneeling, just getting up and getting down.
01:44:25.000Let alone in a supple, silent, smooth way that is not detectable.
01:44:32.000Bowhunting in particular sort of experienced this, most recently, this fitness movement where a lot of guys are getting in extremely good shape to be able to run the mountains.
01:44:46.000So that they can hike long distances and not be fatigued and so that they can take shots and have some mobility where you can be on your knees.
01:44:56.000And for long periods of time, you might have to be held at full draw while an animal's looking at you.
01:45:02.000After having run up a hill and you're fatigued.
01:45:06.000Yeah, and it's the difference between being successful and not being successful.
01:45:09.000In today's day, you can still go to the supermarket, but ultimately what it means is whether or not you can eat or not eat.
01:45:15.000So you have to be in physical shape to be able to do that kind of hunting, and a lot of it is at high altitude, so you're trudging through the mountains with low oxygen.
01:45:23.000Both the body and mind have to deal with so many diverse variable changing, and again, that's adaptability.
01:45:43.000But they are extremely fit from the standpoint of How much they can run, how much they can endure.
01:45:52.000But I would challenge them with very simple movements, such as some of the movements we've trained together with Carlos, when you're in that split squat position and you reverse your orientation from forward to backward, while maybe holding a stick that represents a rifle or a bow or a camera if you're shooting photos.
01:46:15.000So if you're struggling with a movement, you have imbalances.
01:46:19.000How much, again, of your situational awareness can be dedicated to the situation at hand?
01:46:31.000And then for a split second or maybe for a little longer, you're in trouble.
01:46:35.000So in a cage situation, it's very similar because you need to always keep an eye on your opponent.
01:46:43.000So you need that situational awareness while also not having to think exclusively at how you move.
01:46:49.000So the more comfortable your movement, the more fluid, the more second nature it becomes, then the more attention your brain can dedicate to the situation and to the adaptability, the range, the timing, all of these subtle little adaptations.
01:48:09.000Health conscious and if you're aware of what you're taking in on a regular basis, you're sort of aware of how your body reacts, you'll feel different when you eat wild game.
01:48:25.000See the animal die or you kill the animal.
01:48:27.000There's just a sense of gratitude, I feel like, for this thing giving its life to nourish your body as opposed to buying something in a nice little neat package with fucking saran wrap over it.
01:48:40.000You don't really think that a life was separated to give you to nourish your body, but when you go out and you see it or it's in front of you, you realize that You're a little bit more connected to what you're putting in your body and I think that disconnect is a part of the problem with our food chain.
01:49:05.000I guess a sickness or food culture that we're experiencing these days.
01:49:11.000The gratitude is certainly an aspect of it and also the connection, just an understanding, a real understanding of what happened, how you got there, what this meal is, and it feels better.
01:50:44.000I would get an insulin dump, be tired for a little while, but the next time I went to train, I just felt like I had more fuel, more energy, more sustenance for these training sessions.
01:52:17.000Wow, that's interesting because most people think of weight cuts being that, you know, you severely restrict the amount of calories you have, your body starts to go into ketosis or what have you, starts absorbing fat instead of carbohydrates, you dehydrate yourself then after that,
01:53:49.000And I show up out there, and I'm only, I think I remember, I was only like eight pounds out, and We didn't know what the fuck we were doing with regards to the weight cut at the time.
01:54:00.000I was 19, and so I'm like, oh shit, and I just stopped eating.
01:54:04.000I just didn't eat for about four days.
02:00:51.000Big John was one of the refs back then, which is crazy.
02:00:54.000You remember when, what the fuck is his name, fought that ninja dude, Pat Smith.
02:01:00.000Pat Smith fought some dude who was doing, they had his pre-fight video, and his pre-fight video was doing ninja techniques and fucking all this crazy shit that doesn't really work.
02:01:12.000And then he got in there with Pat Smith, who was a pretty seasoned kickboxer.
02:01:33.000The early days were really fascinating because...
02:01:37.000You were around martial arts before the UFC, so you had seen karate and you'd seen all these different Judo and all this different stuff, and nobody really knew what the best stuff was.
02:01:49.000I always knew that wrestlers could take you down.
02:01:51.000I always knew that was going to be a problem, because I wrestled in high school and I had a good buddy of mine, my friend Steven Arduino, when I was doing Taekwondo and he was wrestling.
02:01:59.000One of the reasons why I got into wrestling is because I didn't think that he could take me down.
02:02:52.000It's interesting because you've been around from the WEC days, which were when you were the WEC champ, it was so small in comparison to what it is now.
02:03:05.000For you to go from that to that last fight against Robbie in Vegas, which was just this massive fucking media event, you're fighting for the world title, you get there, the place is sold out, it's craziness, the roar of the crowd...
02:03:48.000It's been an incredible ride, and it has been the coolest fucking thing ever.
02:03:53.000I wanted to, as a young kid, none of this existed, but I was into the early 90s martial arts movies and the Ninja Turtles, and I wanted to be a ninja.
02:05:13.000Yeah, and there's been a lot of change, you know, like a lot of the original guys have branched off and are kind of doing their own thing, but yeah, the...
02:05:23.000The genesis of MMA and Albuquerque is kind of an interesting story.
02:06:17.000And he cornered me for my fight against GSP. And he's one of the founding members of Jackson's.
02:06:24.000He was going to these different jujitsu, judo, pancreation schools and seeing what they were doing.
02:06:31.000Then he was bringing the information back.
02:06:32.000And then they were, you know, kind of getting into the laboratory and see what was working.
02:06:37.000At the same time, some of these guys were bouncers and police officers and literally using this stuff, you know, on the street in some, you know...
02:06:49.000I had Roadhouse type fucking situations.
02:07:56.000It really came from American catch wrestling, and they started incorporating it into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, along with some wrestling techniques and some sambo.
02:08:04.000He learned a bunch of shit, and he was the guy that really was Hickson's mentor.
02:08:08.000He was the guy that was the head of the family.
02:08:32.000Context that those were the most adaptable most open to change and evolution are those who who survive look sure I remember Eddie Bravo Showing his approach to Rickson grassy Hickson Gracie right?
02:09:08.000He even asked questions, like Hickson was asking questions about different aspects of the positions.
02:09:12.000And coming from the BJJ world, that's unusual actually.
02:09:16.000Hickson is a very unusual guy Hickson was a yogi like he was the first guy to incorporate yoga and he is a legit yogi like have you ever seen the videos of him doing those exercises in Santa Monica where he's Balancing on one leg and he puts his leg up in a full split He has incredible control of his body.
02:09:35.000Yes, and then and hence the the people Legitimately legitimately saying hey Rickson was The first to implement movement in this training.
02:09:50.000To me, I want to pay tribute to all coaches that they are Muay Thai striking coaches, judo coaches, even strength and conditioning coaches.
02:10:01.000They are all movement trainers and movement specialists.
02:13:21.000It's fighting, but the methods to get there and to be proficient.
02:13:27.000It boils down to the methods that you use.
02:13:31.000And with Carlos, there was no resistance when I approached him and started to train.
02:13:39.000He talked to his coaches about it, and they may not understand right away exactly what it was about or what it was going to bring to his game, but they were at least open to it.
02:13:49.000And eventually they saw What together we've been able to to improve and achieve and if it didn't have that attitude then Carlos would have not benefited.
02:14:02.000Did you contact Jackson and Winklejohn before you worked with Erwan or did you try it out first and go hey, I think I'm on to something?
02:14:27.000Yeah, and the ability to move forward and back.
02:14:30.000Me and Greg Jackson sat, and he wanted to watch a couple of my fights, and he wanted to see what we were doing well and what we needed improvement on.
02:15:57.000So, videos, you're going back and forth.
02:15:59.000Yeah, so we're looking at this stuff in slow-mo, frame by frame, where his body position is compared to where mine is, and what's the difference?
02:16:09.000He's moving faster because, boom, he's more upright.
02:16:12.000He doesn't have so much weight on his front foot that he has to load and take another half second before he springs backwards.
02:18:00.000They've been doing this kind of independently.
02:18:03.000One of the guys is a young guy, and they're fighting on amateur and regional levels, but I have a feeling you're going to know their names here in the next couple of years.
02:18:29.000And they are incorporating movement quite a bit.
02:18:34.000So it's not that they haven't sought him out.
02:18:38.000They're kind of very interested in this and doing their own stuff and Finding this stuff online and watching the portal stuff, watching Irwin's stuff, and definitely incorporating a lot of this stuff.
02:21:47.000He was, but I knew what he was going to do.
02:21:52.000I mean, I grew up with dudes like that my whole life.
02:21:58.000So I was kind of used to that, and I knew that I was going to have to be emotionally prepared.
02:22:05.000Yeah, emotionally kind of shut down and just fight a strategic fucking game plan against the guy.
02:22:12.000Yeah, it was interesting to watch that fight because, you know, he was extremely frustrated by that, you know, and he couldn't get you to change, you know, whereas he's been able to, like, fuck with guys' heads.
02:22:26.000Like, the Frank Shamrock fight, like, you could see Frank Shamrock going, I can't fucking believe this is happening to me.
02:22:31.000Like, when Nick was talking shit to him, like, what, bitch, what?
02:22:43.000You know, what's funny is both me and Cowboy fought the Diaz brothers within a few weeks of each other, right?
02:22:51.000Cowboy lost to Nate, and I fought Nick just a few weeks later.
02:22:55.000And in preparation for both of our camps, we were switching roles and both fighting Southpaw and both fighting, you know, like one round I would fight Southpaw and talk a bunch of shit and try...
02:23:08.000And try to emulate the Diaz style, and then the next round he would do the same.
02:23:15.000Did you yell out, Stockton, motherfucker!
02:23:22.000That reminds me of a Buddhist monk drill where they're all in their meditation posture and they partner up and the other guy is like trying to instigate them and talk crap to them to have them get out of their meditation.
02:23:50.000But if you're used to be like, fuck you, I've heard this shit, you know, it becomes normal, you know?
02:23:55.000I mean, I tried to explain that to fighters when they deal with online criticism as well.
02:23:59.000Like, I've talked to guys who would go on, like, the Underground and see, like, some shit that people were talking about and just be fucking devastated and get so upset.
02:24:08.000And I was like, look, man, you got to treat it like snake venom.
02:24:10.000You get a little bit of that shit in your system and you're going to be okay.
02:24:14.000You get a little bit more and you eventually deal with it.
02:25:43.000You know, when Anderson fought Nick and Nick laid down on his back and pretended he was sleeping for a second, I was fucking crying laughing.
02:25:50.000When Conor McGregor talks mad shit to Jose Aldo for months, till he just rents space in his head, to the point where Aldo just, he literally can't fight his fight.
02:26:00.000He has to run at Conor because he's just so overwhelmed with emotion, and then Conor sleeps him.
02:26:06.000I like both, but I prefer, in a perfect world, I prefer martial artists.
02:26:12.000I prefer guys to go out there, treat each other with respect, shake each other's hands, and then just go at it.
02:26:31.000Well, it's also a lot of fighters define themselves by respect, by how much someone respects them and how much...
02:26:38.000Like, to a fighter, when someone's not scared of them, it becomes a very devastating thing.
02:26:43.000Like, I remember when Anderson fought Chris Weidman.
02:26:45.000When Weidman and Anderson were at the weigh-ins, and Anderson's staring at him, looking at him, and Weidman goes, I'm not scared of you, dude.
02:27:22.000When Ronda was yelling at her, you fake bitch, you preacher's daughter, all this stuff and stuff, and she wrote all this stuff on Instagram about her, and Holly's just standing there.
02:27:29.000And then when I interviewed Holly afterwards, she goes, well, I was just trying to get a sip of water.
02:27:32.000And you realize, like, whoa, this girl's so fucking composed.
02:27:38.000And also, she'd been to so many dances.
02:27:41.000She'd fought for so many boxing titles and kickboxing and MMA. She'd been in so many dances that the bright lights weren't an uncomfortable thing to her.
02:29:24.000Dude, dude, but he's just so fucking fat.
02:29:27.000And again, he's a guy who trains with Nick Kurson, and Nick Kurson's gotten doing all these plyometrics and jumps and sprints and foot strengthening stuff.
02:29:36.000You ever seen that stuff where they're lying on their back and their feet are pushing up these bars, and they're kicking up these bars and catching them with their feet and exploding with their feet?
02:29:46.000I saw the video before the Cowboy fight.
02:29:48.000Yeah, it's all based on Marv Marinovich's Training strategies.
02:29:54.000That's the same sort of shit that he used with BJ Penn.
02:35:37.000That's the legacy that I want to leave.
02:35:39.000Well, I think it was martial arts in its best form in a lot of ways.
02:35:43.000It was heart, determination, willpower, technique, the discipline to go through camp to get yourself in the kind of shape that you need To compete for five rounds like that, which is just an insane amount of physical conditioning.
02:35:58.000You guys fucking emptied, and your workload was extremely high in that fight, especially kicks.
02:36:05.000I remember that was one of the things that we commented on, like how many kicks you had thrown.
02:36:08.000I mean, it was really a really fucking crazy, crazy fight.
02:36:25.000The kicks were a big part of the strategy too.
02:36:28.000I think that a lot of people wonder why is it that Lawler was not as aggressive as usual.
02:36:33.000I believe there is a reason because it's not like he was less hungry or less in shape.
02:36:37.000It's because the strategy worked of Higher volume and higher accuracy and with with those cakes to To you know lower his his aggressiveness It worked well sticks are always so dangerous too because it just takes one slip up You know,
02:36:57.000it's they're so much harder than punches and you're taking them on your arms And they fuck your arms up the point where you can't throw punches anymore.
02:37:05.000So you got to be careful what you absorb and Right.
02:37:09.000Statistically, the volume is going to create damage to different divers, part of the body.
02:37:16.000I've heard the debate about the fight metrics.
02:37:25.000And I feel like the kicks and the volume of punches that I was throwing out was the equivalent of, say, putting down cover fire if you're in a firefight.
02:37:54.000You're making the enemy keep their head down in this analogy.
02:37:58.000And you weren't also loading up either.
02:38:00.000You were touching him with a lot of these things and keeping him on his toes.
02:38:03.000And that was something that Dwayne was calling TJ Dillashaw to do in his fight with Dominic Cruz.
02:38:08.000He was like, just go out and then touch him.
02:38:10.000Just keep touching him and then the shots will come.
02:38:12.000But he got so emotional and tied up and trying to knock Dominic out.
02:38:17.000You could see him standing more flat-footed, swinging more single shots, single kicks, single punches.
02:38:22.000Yeah, this guy that had looked just incredibly dynamic with his footwork and looked like Dominic Cruz against other guys and looked really well.
02:38:32.000Dominic Cruz goes out there and makes him look like a very orthodox fighter.
02:38:51.000This shit's going to be, you know, this shit's wild.
02:38:53.000Well, I think that's what a lot of us expected.
02:38:55.000But it's interesting that what Uriah had said about TJ, that he had a feeling that TJ was going to get emotional because TJ's a super competitive guy.
02:39:02.000He'd get really geared up and, you know, that was an interesting fight.
02:39:22.000I've known him since WEC. I listened to his analysis of fights, like when he talks about what mistakes guys make and things guys are doing right and correctly and what they need to do.
02:39:32.000And you realize he's operating on a very, very high level.
02:40:36.000He's not going to let that one second hinder him.
02:40:40.000I agree with Carlos because in the absence of actual movement training due to his injury, it's very likely that he was still visualizing every day his movements and therefore using his brain to keep practicing the movements even though the body could not follow during that time.
02:41:01.000Do you examine guys that are fighting?
02:41:03.000Do you watch different guys' movements?
02:41:05.000It's close to perfection and easy using a particular technique, yes, but also most importantly, it's all about his alertness and responsiveness and timing.
02:41:18.000And that again, it's not how much your body can do it, how much your mind is able to operate your body to achieve that.
02:41:29.000So you need a brain that is extremely sharp.
02:41:33.000Well, I was super impressed with him, but one of the things that I thought of when I watched that fight is, God damn, how good is Mighty Mouse?