In this episode of the podcast, Joe talks about the National Cattlemen's Beef Association and the fact that their numbers about how much water it takes to make a cheeseburger are a little off, and why.
00:00:02.000This episode of the podcast so appropriately is brought to you by Blue Apron When you find out what this podcast is about you're gonna be like what the fuck Joe?
00:00:18.000Um let me say before I even do these ads because I just did the podcast with the gentleman that made the documentary Cowspiracy and enjoy it.
00:00:37.000I think they're very cool guys but I did not have an opposing point of view that was represented on the show.
00:00:47.000Now some people from the National Cattleman's Beef Association contacted me and they sent me an email saying that these guys their statistics are wrong.
00:03:40.000Butternut squatch and poblano chili with toasted papitas and charred lime.
00:03:46.000If you're into meat, buffalo chicken sandwiches with end dive and blue cheese salad, seared salmon and salsa verde with orange spinach and faro salad.
00:03:56.000The point being, these are really interesting dishes.
00:03:59.000They're delicious and it's a great way to cook meals.
00:04:04.000I mean, if you're a busy person, you don't have the time to go to the grocery store with a list of stuff and get the exact right ingredients.
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00:07:29.000I think it is my responsibility whenever interviewing people like this, and this is something that has sort of been forced upon me over the last few years of having controversial guests, is to try to at least play devil's advocate when I can, although I'm not that qualified to do that in this regard, but I try to do it a little bit.
00:07:50.000But I think what's really important, there's a lot of undeniable stuff that they brought up that I think affects all of us.
00:07:58.000And I think in that regard, regardless of the arguments, pro and con and a lot of the things that these people are saying they got wrong and whether or not they did, there's some undeniable shit involved in our connection with food.
00:08:13.000And I am fascinated by that as a person.
00:08:17.000And as a person who has a podcast where I can spread information, I'm fascinated by it.
00:11:02.000I was getting ready to go to bed, which is not a good idea to plan the fucking rest of your life, think about the future of the world after you see a documentary like yours.
00:11:11.000And I'm sitting there going, well, there's nothing, there's not much you can say.
00:11:15.000Like when you look at the devastation that's being done with livestock in this country, when you like soberly look at it, you soberly look at the numbers, you soberly look at the amount of land they need to graze, you soberly look at the amount of people that we smush into these little areas where we don't grow shit and we call them cities.
00:11:38.000When you soberly look at the amount of methane that's being produced by cow shit and cow farts, and then the reaction that you guys got when you tried to bring up that aspect of it.
00:11:50.000That was the weirdest part of your documentary.
00:11:53.000I expected going in that the documentary would sort of highlight some issues that people have already with factory farming and show you, you know, what effect it had on the environment.
00:12:06.000I didn't anticipate it would be that much of an effect, and I didn't anticipate that you would get the kind of resistance that you got from activists, activists that are scared of that industry.
00:12:19.000What was it like making that documentary?
00:12:21.000That was actually more of the motivation was that these environmental groups, the Green Pieces, Rainforest Action Network, Sierra Club, that they didn't address this issue was more of inspiration to make the film and pissed us off to the point of making the film more than actual facts themselves.
00:12:39.000The facts are so overwhelming when I found them out.
00:12:41.000But the fact that they didn't talk about this, I felt betrayed.
00:12:46.000And then once I started calling them, it became really kind of pissed off.
00:12:50.000This is Kip Anderson talking, by the way, and Keegan Kuhn is the other gentleman to his right.
00:13:15.000I meant the environmental groups are taking money from that industry.
00:13:18.000And also, too, imagine the American Lung Association and you're sitting around board of director meetings, you're all smoking cigarettes, and then you're telling somebody not to smoke cigarettes.
00:13:26.000We walked in a couple organizations' groups during lunch, and here they're in front of a slaughterhouse eating their lunch, and they're discussing how to save the rainforest.
00:13:39.000They're eating burgers and shit, talking about the rainforest.
00:13:43.000You know, another thing that really disturbed me about your documentary was when that gentleman who was a former cattle rancher was talking about his being sued and how the industry sued him and he got in some real deep legal trouble, cost him a ton of money.
00:13:58.000But how now, today, with the Patriot Act, he would have never won the case because it doesn't matter if you're correct now.
00:14:06.000Now, if you have an action, like you make a documentary, you do something that adversely affects that industry or any industry where they can prove they're losing money by the Patriot Act, you're legally complicit, or you're legally guilty, right?
00:14:22.000Yeah, well, so there was a law created called the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, and it was focused on just animal rights activists and environmental rights activists.
00:14:28.000And the law says anyone who disrupts a business of an animal enterprise is committing an act of terrorism.
00:14:54.000It's so wrong and so dangerous when you let an industry just dictate just by sheer money what people can and can't protest things that people find morally reprehensible.
00:15:05.000There's a reason why there's these ag gag laws.
00:15:08.000What ag gag laws, if you're not aware, if you listen to this, there's laws against taking film footage of those pigs that are shoved into those cages and chickens shoved into cages and cruelty to animals.
00:15:18.000Have you ever watched any of those disturbing videos that PETA puts up where they'll show like a guy like shearing wool and kicking the shit out of the lamb?
00:15:28.000It's fucking, it's hard to watch, man.
00:15:50.000Obviously, I don't know if it's just one time that they filmed this and it's just one asshole.
00:15:54.000But there's laws against filming those things now.
00:15:57.000So the only way that ever stops, the only way people ever go, hey man, I'm only going to eat free range this or grass-fed that, the only way that happens ever is you have to know what the consequences of not doing that are.
00:16:09.000You have to know if you're buying this factory raised meat, this is how it lives.
00:16:17.000So instead of fixing it and making it better, they make it illegal to report all this unethical, fucked up, dark shit they're doing to animals.
00:16:26.000That is, that's so fucking anti-American at every level.
00:16:32.000Yeah, but I mean, that shows how powerful this industry is.
00:16:34.000It literally can dictate to the government what they want the laws to be.
00:16:36.000Because, you know, the AGAC laws don't benefit consumers in any way.
00:16:39.000They're completely written by the industry themselves.
00:16:42.000Those motherfuckers need to take mushrooms.
00:16:45.000All those people that are involved in those chicken farms, those pig farms, just grow some.
00:17:12.000If like Michael Vick got in trouble because he was shooting his dogs and killing them, how is that really different than the way they treat pigs?
00:17:19.000As I say, you know, at least the dogs had a chance.
00:17:22.000You know, these animals had no chance at all.
00:17:41.000Anyway, that doesn't, beside the point.
00:17:43.000The point is this industry has so much fucking money that they're able to do something that I think pretty much everybody would disagree with, and that's stop you from letting people be aware of the consequences of their purchase power.
00:18:10.000Thing is, too, it's not only, you know, even if you have organic or the free range or, you know, all these other, more than anything, the marketing terms, they don't let you into these places as well.
00:19:46.000How the fuck did human beings get to this position where, I mean, I think it's wonderful in terms of our ability to innovate, create technology, educate each other.
00:19:56.000You know, I mean, wow, what a gigantic relief it's been to remove the daily necessity of gathering food.
00:20:04.000It's been a gigantic relief, and it's caused the human race to accelerate, to technologically innovate at a before, never seen pace.
00:20:14.000I mean, what we've been able to do over the last hundred years has been nothing short of insane.
00:20:20.000But the consequences seem to be not thought out and not planned for and no solution in place to mitigate it.
00:20:30.000Yeah, and that's the thing is that when we talk about population in the film, you know, and was it 1800 is 1 billion?
00:20:37.0001900, 1.5, 2000, 2012, 7 billion just exploded.
00:20:44.000And then not only that, the necessity to the meat consumption and dairy consumption and just in the last 50 years.
00:20:51.000So a lot of these people have this notion of, you know, even the grass-fed, that's what we get into, and the organic, but they're living in a time where it's 50 years ago, 100 years ago.
00:21:45.000Well, that's one thing that's looked at in the film is that, yeah, how do you feed 7.2 billion people?
00:21:50.000And the only way you're really going to do it is to eat as ecologically as possible, and that's a plant-based diet, or getting as close to a plant-based diet as you can.
00:21:57.000Yeah, it seems like, like, what I like to do, I grow a lot of my own vegetables, and I've been, the last few years, I've been hunting, and this year, eating, trying to at least, exclusively stuff that I've killed myself.
00:22:34.000There's more white-tailed deer right now than there have ever been ever in the history of this continent, just by management, by wildlife protection agencies and fish and game departments, making sure that these animals have adequate habitat and they only take a certain amount per year and things along those lines.
00:22:51.000So there's more white-tailed deer than there have ever been in North America, but not enough to feed everybody.
00:23:01.000Yeah, I mean, hunting really, because people have brought that up.
00:23:03.000They say, well, what about sustainable hunting?
00:23:05.000And the truth is that we've replaced most of the wild animals on the planet with our domesticated animals, and we've taken the wild animals' land, and we've, you know, used it to grow, feed, to feed livestock or to graze livestock.
00:23:18.000And so, yeah, just as you said, I mean, we've literally replaced 90% of wildlife with our own species.
00:23:23.000Like, what wildlife isn't there anymore that was, besides obvious ones, like buffalo?
00:23:28.000Yeah, I mean, there's obviously like megafauna, but it's also, I mean, you'll have to look at timberwolves, eastern timberwolves were basically wiped out primarily for fur trade and because they preyed on cattle.
00:23:40.000And so then you have other species that move in.
00:23:42.000And so you see an explosion of, for example, yeah, white-tailed deer, but that's because we've eliminated all the other species around them.
00:23:48.000We've eliminated all the predators because the predators are a threat to the livestock.
00:23:53.000And so once you eliminate the predators, now you have all these deer running around and multiplying, and then that's where wildlife management comes in, which is complete bullshit because true wildlife management is getting rid of the cows and getting rid of all the other wildlife.
00:24:14.000So basically what's happening, just one year ago, what was the stats on how many?
00:24:19.000Oh, I mean, the Department of Agriculture has a wildlife services program, and they eliminate wild animals who prey on the livestock industry.
00:24:29.000So they killed the mountain lions, coyotes.
00:24:32.000I mean, it's like 60,000 coyotes last year were killed by the U.S. government because they're perceived as a threat to this industry.
00:24:51.000You know, because elk population has been decimated, but then they've also attacked some livestock in British Columbia, where my friend Mike lives, his neighbor's cow was taken out by a wolf.
00:25:02.000Like they were all sitting around from the fucking bedroom window watching a pack of monsters tear a cow apart, like right in this little pen.
00:25:12.000I mean, but still, I mean, wolf populations aren't anywhere close to what they were a century ago.
00:25:17.000That's true, but in some states, they have exceeded the number that they intended to let them get to.
00:25:22.000Right, and so that's what happened is that, I mean, because that's going back to these environmental organizations, Sarah Club's got a big campaign about save the wolves and all these organizations, save the wolves, save the wolves, but they're not talking about why wolves are on the verge of collapse again.
00:25:33.000It's like we got these species off the endangered species list, and now they've opened it up to hunting in Idaho and, you know, the states that the population bloomed again.
00:25:41.000And it's because of the cattle industry.
00:25:43.000It's not that the wolves have exceeded the ecological capacity or carrying capacity of the ecosystem.
00:25:48.000It's the fact that they're competing with livestock.
00:25:54.000They've passed a number where the scientists, the biologists, wildlife biologists deemed they would be a healthy, sustainable Population and not be a problem.
00:26:02.000And when they get to, you know, what we call a problem, of course, it's when they interfere with agriculture, it's when they start eating livestock and people's dogs and occasionally joggers.
00:26:12.000You know, shit goes wrong with wolves, man.
00:26:15.000You really, the issue is management, right?
00:26:21.000To some people, it means like leave nature alone, let nature sort it out.
00:26:25.000But to people in indigenous areas like Native Americans and people in Canada, like a lot of them rely on moose and deer to feed themselves.
00:26:37.000Like this is where they get their meat from.
00:26:39.000And they have to keep wolf populations down.
00:26:41.000If they don't keep wolf populations down, the wolf, they already, as it is, wolves and bears kill something like 50% of all calves and the fawns that come out of deer and moose.
00:26:51.000So they do, since there's nothing that kills wolves, like you have to kill them, otherwise they get to the point where, have you ever been to like upstate New York and drive through those areas where there's so many deer you have to drive like 20 miles an hour?
00:27:05.000Because at nighttime, they're just darting in front of your car.
00:27:24.000And that's what we've seen with ecology around the world.
00:27:27.000Indigenous communities have found, I mean, it's like hunter-gatherer communities around the world have shown that you can live in balance with nature.
00:27:34.000But that's not what we're living today.
00:27:36.000Wildlife biologists, though, do believe that the way to balance that out is you have to keep populations of predators down.
00:27:42.000And that's why if you go back to history, all the fairy tales, the big bad wolf, Little Red Riding Hood, all that stuff, Three Little Pigs, were all wolves.
00:27:54.000In terms of recent history, in World War I, the Russians and the Germans had a ceasefire because they were trying to kill each other and wolves kept killing them.
00:28:04.000They were getting so many soldiers killed by wolves, they literally had a ceasefire and just went on a wolf-killing rampage.
00:28:12.000They can stop armies from killing each other.
00:28:14.000So I think we all, as compassionate people who love nature, we have some beautiful ideas of what nature is and some beautiful ideas of how North American populations of animals should be managed.
00:28:27.000But wildlife biologists look at this with a very sober eye.
00:28:32.000And the reason why they're opening up hunting for wolves in Idaho and some other areas is not just to protect agriculture.
00:28:42.000It's also to keep these motherfuckers from getting out of control.
00:29:42.000If human beings come in and start jacking and killing people, that's what's called war.
00:29:46.000And that's why we have armies, to protect against human beings when human beings do get out of control.
00:29:51.000But if wolves were cool and they were hanging around like squirrels and they never killed your dog and they never threatened your children, yeah, it would be a totally different experience.
00:30:04.000I mean, look, not that many people are wandering through the woods by themselves, and wolves are usually aware that when they see human beings, they're either in cars or they have rifles.
00:30:13.000But I've had friends that were stalked by wolves.
00:30:15.000I've had friends that were on bow hunting expeditions where they thought they were going to die because they were stalked by wolves.
00:30:20.000Because wolves, if they can get away with it, they will fucking kill you.
00:30:24.000Well, they had bows in their hands too.
00:30:26.000Listen, man, you ain't going to kill them all.
00:30:29.000You might get one wolf if you're lucky.
00:30:32.000But a compound bow when a wolf's running at you, good fucking luck.
00:30:50.000If you remove all those fences, all those millions of miles in fences, millions of acres, and you let the wolves have that land again, and then you let the other predators come back in, then you have a balance going on.
00:31:02.000But it's the fences, and that's the, you know, you talk about the wildlife management.
00:31:07.000It's bullshit because just by killing some wolves and not addressing the cows and the fences, that's the problem.
00:31:13.000Well, there is certainly a lot of cows in Idaho, but there's also a lot of wild game.
00:31:17.000There's a lot of, like, deer hunting in Idaho is famous.
00:31:20.000Like, elk hunting in Idaho is like one of the best places to go in the world.
00:31:58.000But we still, we don't have that perspective of that 200 years ago, the biodiversity and the amount of animals was that much more.
00:32:05.000And 500 years ago, it was even that much more.
00:32:07.000I mean, living in the Bay, and we talked about the indigenous people literally didn't go more than 10 miles from where their village was because there's so many animals, there's so much food.
00:33:14.000They hear things you're never going to hear.
00:33:16.000And if you start coming through the woods, they're just going to not be there.
00:33:19.000It's not like there's this overwhelming idea that we have to go out and decimate all of the coyotes and all of the bears and all of the wolves and all of the cougars.
00:34:01.000Yeah, the reason, though, is that we've gotten to that place.
00:34:03.000We've decimated the populations to such a low point that now they have to put in these mandates and controls to try and keep the species alive.
00:34:12.000The reason why they did it, though, was like when they started killing all these wolves back in the day, when they started poisoning them, they did it because they were dangerous.
00:34:20.000Like they had gotten to high numbers and they had realized that as soon as people start stockpiling livestock, that this is an easy place to hit.
00:34:29.000And so they would just keep coming back to them.
00:34:31.000I'm sure you've heard of the Russian super PACs of wolves that they've had in issues with in Siberia, where these guys, they can't do a damn thing about it because there's 100 wolves tearing apart a horse.
00:34:57.000But I think we have to be real careful when it comes to just letting wildlife be wild.
00:35:02.000I think there's a certain amount of predators that you can have before things get dangerous.
00:35:08.000The big one, you know, that the film addresses is the livestock.
00:35:12.000That's what's got out of control, and that's what's literally destroying and taking over the wildlife.
00:35:17.000So if you're really concerned about wildlife, if you're a real wildlife person, the last thing you do was not only consume, say, factory farm, but that's the whole thing about our film.
00:35:31.000We talk about the organic grass-fed milk.
00:35:37.000And that's what's killing the wildlife.
00:35:39.000And that's the whole point of what we jump past the factory farm because ironically, for wildlife, if you care truly about wildlife, and that's what they discussed when we talked to the Animal Agriculture Alliance, they say, they say, people think we're living somewhere 50 years ago, 100 years ago.
00:35:55.000We're living in a place with 7 billion people.
00:36:22.000So that's the last thing you would want to eat is grass-fed beef.
00:36:25.000The last thing you'd want to be fed with beating is these organic dairy farms that is destroying all our water resources, polluting the rivers, and destroying all these predators and these other wildlife that you talk about.
00:36:38.000Right, but the argument would be that when you have a grass-fed cow and it's eating on 50 acres, that's where it's getting its food from.
00:36:45.000Whereas if you have a factory-raised animal, it's getting corn, that corn is raised independently on some other large area.
00:36:53.000Yeah, because you can grow corn so much per acre.
00:36:56.000And grass-fed, it needs 50 acres that no other horse, no other bear, no other cougar, no other, all these animals that you're talking about.
00:37:03.000No other animal can live on that area.
00:37:05.000Is that during the life of the animal?
00:37:18.000So that's the last thing you want to be eating is grass-fed beef if you really care about the environment, if you really care about wildlife.
00:37:25.000You need to say, either I fuck the cow, screw the cow, the cow lives a miserable life, but you know, I care a lot about more like, you know, about the elk and the moose and the wolves.
00:37:35.000I care more about wildlife than I do about this cow.
00:37:38.000You got to choose one or the other if you're going to do it.
00:37:40.000And if you really care about wildlife, you got to say screw the cow and let's go with Factory Farm.
00:37:45.000And that's the whole irony of this whole grass-fed myth that's happening.
00:37:50.000And that's what's kind of ironic about the film, and people don't expect that.
00:37:55.000If human beings right now stopped growing, like if the population of the United States stayed at 300 million, can we feed ourselves right now with how we're doing it?
00:40:01.000Another part of it is topsoil erosion.
00:40:03.000Leading cause of topsoil erosion is from hooved animals grazing on land that never had hooved animals.
00:40:08.000It's how we till soils to grow corn and soy and alfalfa.
00:40:13.000Yeah, that's an issue, right, that you guys also addressed that maybe some people aren't aware of is that you can't just keep pulling the same plants over and over again from soil.
00:40:24.000When you do that, you deplete these farmlands.
00:40:26.000And there's a guy named Dr. Joel Wallach.
00:40:29.000I don't know if you've ever heard of him.
00:40:30.000A controversial character, but he had this fascinating book called Dead Doctors Don't Lie.
00:40:34.000It's all about mineral deficiencies and about these farmlands in the United States have been minerally deficient since like the 1930s.
00:40:52.000The kind of vegetables that you get from those places, they're not the healthiest.
00:40:57.000I mean, some soil scientists are saying that we won't have livable topsoils in the next 50 years in the United States because how do we farm?
00:41:06.000And then what ends up happening to all that topsoil runs off into streams and rivers and gets flushed out to the oceans.
00:41:11.000We have these massive dead zones that are completely devoid of life, all from the primary cause is because of raising animals.
00:41:17.000And then we have the greenhouse gases, and then when 50% is cleared away, imagine 50% of that land reverts back to actual wildlife, to actual fauna growing back.
00:41:56.000Like, it's one of the things that I realized as an adult, and I used to have a bit about this, is there's just no grown-ups.
00:42:01.000There's just a bunch of people that got older.
00:42:03.000Like when you're a little kid, you think that one day there's going to be a grown-up and you're going to be grown up as well and it's going to make sense.
00:42:10.000Like, oh, one day I'll be all grown up.
00:42:13.000But no, you get grown up and then you realize, oh, nobody knows what the fuck is going on.
00:42:19.000And somehow or another, the momentum of these greedy cunts has created this environment where you can't even talk about what they're doing to animals.
00:42:30.000And you can't talk about how far gone we are.
00:43:24.000I mean, intellectually, not that I'm ever, but if I was intellectual, I would say that ultimately this whole thing is happening.
00:43:34.000Life is taking place and it's moving at this very strange and bizarre pace.
00:43:38.000I think that ethically, though, one of the bigger issues, maybe perhaps the biggest issue, is how did we allow laws in place like laws where you can go to jail for filming cruelty?
00:43:52.000As Americans, as human beings, as people that are living in the age of information of 2016, to deny information, shouldn't you know if you buy a pair of pants that that pair of pants is made by fucking slaves?
00:44:05.000Shouldn't you know if you went to the pair of pants factory and you saw a guy whipping the people that were making the pair of pants, wouldn't you want to be aware of that?
00:44:51.000But really, what's going to come down to is that as long as this industry has money and has money to funnel into the government, things are going to continue.
00:44:59.000And so I think it's undermining the baseline of that.
00:45:02.000And the little thing, too, is when we tour around with the film, people talk, the politicians are the bad ones, or the animal culture groups are the bad ones, the government.
00:45:11.000And once again, it goes back to those environmental groups.
00:45:35.000So how about hold people accountable to step up what they're doing and hold themselves accountable whilst rather than saying, Screw you, screw you, screw you, say, you know what, look in the mirror and what can I do?
00:45:47.000And what can I do with these environmental groups that are actually palpable?
00:45:50.000And just from the making the film, they're actually now starting to address it.
00:45:54.000So, it's pretty cool they're finally doing it.
00:45:56.000Well, it's interesting because if you look at the agriculture business, if you look at factory farming business, like as a business, you look at just the raising of livestock in this country, there's a gigantic diffusion of responsibility aspect to it all because each person is one part of this enormous industry.
00:46:13.000And this industry has existed before they came along.
00:46:16.000So, you grow up and it seems normal because everybody's buying steak at the butcher shop and everybody's getting their cows from this fucking guy and their milk from this store.
00:46:32.000So, you take on a job that already exists and it's acceptable.
00:46:37.000It's a normal part of your community and your culture.
00:46:39.000And then, you know, you run into some problems and you need some loans.
00:46:43.000So you get a loan and you expand your business and then you get involved with lobbyists.
00:46:47.000And then the lobbyists come by and they say, hey, listen, we've passed a new law that makes it illegal for people to film you while you're beating the fuck out of your pigs.
00:47:05.000You're not dealing with individuals that are evil.
00:47:09.000You're dealing with almost like an evil concept.
00:47:11.000And the evil concept is to be able to take life and to turn it into something that's profitable.
00:47:18.000Like to take life and to smash it into the small space possible, feed it the most fattening shit possible, pump it full of whatever chemicals we have that make it grow quicker, and then chop it up.
00:47:32.000And I think that we, in the film, we don't demonize people who are involved in this industry because they're all trying to pay their bills, feed their families.
00:47:55.000Having that put into, like, this one thing, if you have people that are fucking, I've seen people that interrupt restaurants and they, you know, you've seen videos of those people.
00:48:02.000They get in and they just fucking start screaming about meat is murder.
00:48:06.000And like, this is not the place for it.
00:49:16.000And when you ever met somebody who just started fucking doing something, like, you know, just started, you know, playing tennis, and all they want to do is talk about fucking tennis?
00:49:26.000Like, Jesus Christ, man, enough about fucking tennis.
00:49:28.000That's how a lot of people are with everything, including becoming a vegan.
00:49:32.000You know, I'm guilty of it with things that I get into because when I get into things, that's all I want to talk about.
00:49:37.000And when people find that moral high ground in particular, they tend to fucking plant a flag and blow trumpets.
00:49:45.000And so when you say to someone, hey, you know, it's not because I'm paying taxes on your burger, they're like, oh, dude, fuck off.
00:49:50.000You know, this is not the way to talk to people because they don't want to hear it.
00:49:53.000Even if you're making sense with your facts and your statistics, most people, first of all, if they haven't seen your documentary or many other documentaries, whether it's Food Inc.
00:50:03.000or whether it's King Corn or whether there's a series of them that you can watch that sort of give you this complicated, multifaceted picture of what's going on with food in this country.
00:50:31.000It's just following my journey, what I personally went through about six years ago.
00:50:35.000So it's all about providing information.
00:50:37.000Yeah, and even that, just providing information about the taxes.
00:50:40.000It's like, you know, this is the truth.
00:50:43.000Just know the information and then make your own choices.
00:50:45.000Well, yeah, you don't really have to put a spin on it.
00:50:48.000You know, when you break down the actual numbers as far as like how, well, that was the other thing that was incredible, when you show how much area you need to grow plants versus how much area you need to grow livestock to feed the same amount of people.
00:52:55.000But so again, this is, and what's going on right now in Oregon, same sort of thing is that they believe that this land is for them to use because no one else is up there and so they can graze their cattle.
00:53:04.000And it's like, well, right now they're cutting down fences and wildlife refuges to graze cattle.
00:53:09.000It's like, I mean, it's just the, it doesn't benefit ecology in any way.
00:53:58.000And that's, again, because of the cattle industry.
00:54:01.000Now, this federal land, when you say that their animals can graze on it for a fraction of the cost, a fraction of the cost of doing it on private land.
00:54:19.000Like if you want to, like you could use that land to go camping, to hike, to do, because it's all, this is where Theodore Roosevelt, when he was in office, he was very controversial because one of the things that he did is he wanted to protect gigantic chunks of land in this country and make them public land and make it so that people will always have the great outdoors.
00:54:44.000He had a very amazing foresight in that regard.
00:54:48.000He really saw the future in a lot of ways.
00:54:50.000And man, they've been trying to fucking sell that shit off forever.
00:54:53.000And as recently as one of those guys running for president, Ryan, Paul Ryan, is that his name?
00:55:01.000I believe he was one of the guys that was ahead of this idea to sell that land to pay off the debt that the United States allegedly has to some fucking invisible man.
00:55:11.000I don't even understand the debt that we have, like to who?
00:55:29.000So you can go down a rabbit hole, my point.
00:55:32.000But if you do go down that rabbit hole, like shouldn't those people, like, shouldn't you, if you have chickens, shouldn't you allow your chickens to fucking run around on public land?
00:55:41.000The difference is profiting off of it.
00:55:43.000So if they're having, you know, they're private industry making money on public lands.
00:56:19.000Which apparently they can't survive without that.
00:56:22.000I mean, the hog industry in North Carolina, you know, we've read a report that said they wouldn't be able to survive if it wasn't for better subsidies.
00:56:47.000Well, you look at the, I mean, what happened in the Arab Spring, that was mostly because of food prices.
00:56:52.000At least a lot of economists are saying that, yeah.
00:56:55.000But so we want to keep food affordable in the U.S. So when industry is struggling, the government steps in and said, hey, we'll help you out.
00:57:29.000And that's to make sure the food supply stays adequate.
00:57:32.000Because, I mean, right now, chicken in the United States is cheaper, like, you know, astronomically cheaper than it was 50 years ago, even including inflation.
00:58:12.000So that's, you know, again, that's just one aspect of it is that we, because people will say that, they'll be like, well, you know, it's really expensive to eat plant-based food.
00:58:20.000And so, you know, I've traveled around the world.
00:58:56.000And we interviewed Lauren and Ellis from Food Empowerment Project, and that's one of the things they talk about is that we look at food deserts that are happening around urban areas.
00:59:06.000People can't afford food, and it's because we don't have a living wage.
00:59:08.000It's like you want to solve food deserts.
01:00:33.000Yeah, well, really, it came from war, World War I and World War II as they started producing chemical nitrogen for mustard gas and for chemical weapons.
01:00:41.000And they realized, whoa, you can grow plants with this stuff.
01:00:48.000That guy became a fucking war criminal.
01:00:50.000The guy who invented the nitrogen that's responsible for like 50% of the fucking nitrogen in your body right now has come from the Hopper method where they take, say, So instead of using fertilizer, they figured out how to get nitrogen out of the fucking air.
01:01:11.000This same guy came up with the idea of gassing people.
01:01:14.000He gassed the Allied troops in World War I and then created Zyklon B, that fucking gas that they, well, they use Zyklon A and Zyklon B. And he came out with Zyklon A and he figured out a way to make it so it has a very strong smell so you would know it was a pesticide.
01:01:33.000So that you would know that you, if you smelled it, get the fuck away from it.
01:01:36.000And then the Nazis turned into Zyklon B. So they just took out whatever element that gave it a horrible smell.
01:03:42.000But that's the whole thing is that you look at populations whose birth rates are going down.
01:03:46.000It's when they started educating girls and they stopped segregating where only boys were going to school.
01:03:51.000That's one correlation, though, but also populations go down in places that are more advanced and places that are high population areas with more affluent people.
01:04:34.000You know, they fuck and they make people.
01:04:36.000It's just ridiculous that at this point in time, sex is the only way to make people.
01:04:40.000Like, you know, you should figure out a way better and more obvious way to make people than do something that your body's urging you to do all the time.
01:05:22.000Well, you know, that's at least something that's addressed and people talk about.
01:05:27.000The thing that I think I find the most disturbing about all this is how few people are aware of the reality of factory farming.
01:05:35.000It sort of seems like a ghost that's whispered in the woods, you know, oh, factory farming, yeah, it's fucking terrible.
01:05:42.000You know, no one really thinks about it too much because it's not really in our face enough.
01:05:46.000And the idea that that now is covered by the Patriot Act, if you do put it in people's faces, that you, I mean, it's essentially like by way of creating a law like that, they've made it so that you'll never make it better.
01:07:26.000I want to live as sustainably as possible.
01:07:28.000And then as far as feeding people, you know, one of the scientists on our film, they said, if everyone did just eat plants, you know, that would happen is that you could feed around 14, 15 billion people.
01:09:36.000That's always fucked up when you have a ridiculous idea that you don't think anyone's ever going to do and they go, oh, they're already doing it.
01:09:44.000Well, they have that YU fucking cow thing going on, which I never understand why people want to pay all that money for a cow that's basically like a job of the hut cow.
01:12:06.000Yeah, but the assassinations and everything that they're having in Brazil, it's all people that are trying to stop the deforestation of the rainforest, which is unbelievably devastating to the tune of, what was it, one acre?
01:12:48.000And that's the thing too, you look at the environmental organizations, you would think this would be their forefront issue.
01:12:53.000Right now you go to any rainforest action organization, they're going to be talking about palm oil and pulp in timber and dams and fossil fuels when still today the leading cause of rainforest destruction around the world is animal agriculture.
01:13:18.000You know, when it was kind of the turn of all talking to all these groups and then finally it was this big long drawn out thing where she was kind of stumbling, stumbling, stumbling.
01:13:30.000This is screwed up and this is the reason why we're not talking about it.
01:13:34.000And then these interviews are two hours long and sometimes we go to these screenings and you have someone from Greenpeace or Sierra Club and they say, oh, you guys manipulated the editing of the film.
01:13:43.000It's like, you know, you watch the full edits of the film.
01:13:50.000Who was accusing of manipulating the data?
01:13:53.000Oh, all the time when we go on tour, some will stand up and they'll say the edits of our interviews, you know, the most bizarre part and the most funniest part.
01:14:02.000They say you manipulated the edits to make it the most funny or the most cover-up and say, no, if you see the longer edits of that, it's worse than it appears.
01:14:11.000Why don't you guys just put the long edits up on YouTube?
01:14:15.000We've been doing that, but we've been working on other stuff.
01:14:22.000It's very disconcerting to think that these animal rights are these Greenpeace activists and these environmental activists and all these different people that are involved in this campaign to save the rainforest are also maybe even taking money from animal agriculture.
01:15:52.000You know, it's like the reason why we have a, I think a big part of why we have an environmental movement in the United States is because of Greenpeace.
01:15:58.000And they've opened doors to be able to talk about things.
01:18:01.000Well, the most bizarre thing was how many, you know, there's a guy named Dan Flores that wrote a thing about bison ecology.
01:18:07.000It's really fascinating, and I've got to get him on the podcast.
01:18:10.000But his assertation is that the Native Americans, just with the introduction of firearms and horses, they would have probably wiped the buffalo out even like, you know, without the Americans or without the Europeans landing and becoming a part of this buffalo.
01:18:30.000It wouldn't have happened as quick because the overall slaughter was fueled by money.
01:18:34.000You know, the hide slaughter, I mean, the amount of buffalo hides they were getting.
01:19:12.000Yeah, but I mean, Guns, Germs, and Steel, that's an awesome book, similar sort of thing where it talks about that.
01:19:17.000Yeah, introduce technology to a population and see what happens.
01:19:21.000Well, his flores is backs historical recollections of different people who had come before the decline in Native American populations, and they really didn't discuss bison herds.
01:19:32.000They'd never seen these million herds of bison like they described in the 1700s.
01:19:38.000People had gotten there and been like, what in the fuck?
01:21:09.000When I lived in Alaska, you'd see tourists all the time going up to bull moose.
01:21:13.000Just think they're going to get a picture.
01:21:14.000I mean, literally, they've seen people walk up to black bears just like they're in a zoo.
01:21:19.000People don't really understand the fact that animals, and that's really kind of all animals, are potentially very dangerous, particularly wild animals.
01:21:41.000When a new bear comes into town, there's a fucking war going on.
01:21:44.000It's chaos, just like it used to be with people.
01:21:47.000So that's the world that a fucking moose is living in.
01:21:50.000You just can't walk up on that moose, dude.
01:21:51.000That moose is fighting off bears all the time.
01:21:54.000I mean, imagine being a moose in Alaska, and you have to deal with some potentially 10, 11 foot tall, gigantic, furry monster that just eats everything it can.
01:24:11.000Yeah, it's very strange when you see the diversity of wildlife, and you have to think that all of this stuff...
01:24:22.000All this stuff came from single-celled organisms that eventually evolved and changed and mutated and adapted and Random mutation, pressure from the environment, and then they became what they are now.
01:24:39.000And I think that that's also a big part of what's wrong with factory farming and what's wrong with our disconnection from our food is that we're very rarely around animals.
01:24:50.000And to the point where I think most human beings think of it as like people and animals.
01:25:12.000But when you're around wildlife, like if you've ever been in the woods, seen like, you know, a population of fox walk by and you see like the mama bear or and a couple cubs and you see these kind of animals like in in the wild and you realize like these fuckers are here they're they've been here they're staying they breed here this is normal they've been this way since lewis and clark like hundreds of years ago they were just like this and they're just like this right now we just never go into that world so we forget that world's even
01:25:42.000I think we have a huge disconnect, you know, as you said, from our food and from the natural world.
01:25:47.000It's like we live in concrete boxes and we drive in cars and it's like we forget that we are part of this whole system.
01:25:53.000And that's, I think, a big part of what Cowspiracy does too, is that remind people that you're part of this system, you know, whether you want to or not, it's like you're part of the system.
01:26:01.000You're dependent upon the atmosphere for your air.
01:26:02.000You're dependent upon the ground for your water.
01:26:05.000It's like you're dependent on the soil for your food.
01:26:10.000Well, this is the first time I think our generation, or I'm older than you guys, I think, the generations of the last 20 years, the people that are alive today, let's just call it the people that are awake and alive and paying attention today, this is really probably unprecedented amount of understanding of the consequences of the way we're living.
01:26:30.000I really don't think it's ever been like this before, where so many people are so aware of what has been set up in this system that we're born into, this system that we just, you know, we went to school and we got out of school and we got jobs and we became a part of it.
01:26:45.000And then as adults, we start looking around and going, who fucking designed the Democrats and the Republicans?
01:26:53.000These fucking two people, the only people?
01:26:55.000And their idea, what is this fucking, where'd this meat sandwich come from?
01:27:00.000How can I just go through this spot and I can reach my hand out my metal box with rubber tires and hand this guy paper and he gives me a ground meat sandwich and I just drive off?
01:27:12.000The film ends as a real inspiring way is that people are turning on now, you know?
01:27:17.000So something just in the past couple of years, you can just kind of feel it, like this transformation of just information passes so fast, you can't hide things from people.
01:27:24.000Well, do you think that, do you worry at all that something like that Patriot Act thing could be somehow or another applied to people who make documentaries that expose realities like that?
01:27:35.000When we made the film, it was kind of how it went down, you know?
01:28:02.000You know, the fear of not doing something has to supersede the fear of one individual doing something.
01:28:08.000You know, we have to step up and all do something because if not, what are we going to live in?
01:28:12.000In a world full of cows, you know, and that's in a monoculture of cows and destruction and we're not going to be around anyway.
01:28:18.000So it was scary, but now at the point, it's been, you know, a year and a half since we released it and we're already on to our, uh, you know, our new, new project coming along right now too.
01:28:27.000So you haven't had any blowback at all?
01:29:13.000Well, a lot of people don't get threats.
01:29:15.000from the cattle industry like what kind of what kind of threats are you getting oh i mean it's you know you guys should fucking die um you know i hope somebody fucking shoots you guys you know that sort of stuff whoa i hope somebody shoots you guys boys for in the yalka y'all Qaeda Ya Al Qaeda So why do they say why?
01:29:33.000I mean, the film shows and exposes the atrocities of this industry, and that's a threat to a lot of people's livelihood.
01:29:41.000And so, of course, there's going to be pushback.
01:29:42.000Someone's saying that you should die because you showed facts.
01:29:59.000And, you know, one of the most emotional screenings, we went to Idaho because my dad's from Idaho, and, you know, he's a rancher.
01:30:04.000My grandfather's a rancher, both of them.
01:30:06.000And so I'm very sympathetic to what they're going through and what we're, you know, their next level of switch that has to happen or we're screwed.
01:30:57.000We just feel like, hey, we're protected by all the people who back us up, who supported the film.
01:31:03.000and then leonardo caprio saw the film and got super excited about it they caught in touch with us and they his one of his producers, Jennifer Davidson, said, Hey, Leo saw your film, loves it, wants to be executive producer, wants to take it to Netflix.
01:31:19.000Actually, he took it to Netflix already, and they're interested in taking the film on.
01:31:55.000Like, hey, once a huge name and this hits totally mainstream went on Netflix back in September and it's just blown up.
01:32:02.000Are we going to get even more pushback?
01:32:03.000And so far, I think the industry, if the industry's smart, which is questionable, they'll continue to ignore us as best they can because it's only going to draw more attention if they come after us.
01:32:18.000Well, that's the awesome thing is that Silk Soy Milk is owned by one of the largest dairy companies in the U.S. because they looked at it and they said, hey, look, we're losing part of the market to plant-based milks.
01:32:38.000So it's like when people switch over to more sustainable foods, that's where they see the money and they're just going to follow the money.
01:32:43.000So that's one of the real hopefuls for me.
01:32:45.000That was another dark part of the movie.
01:32:56.000Kind of like when you said you visited your buddy's farm, we thought it was going to be nice and like, wow, this is going to be kind of a weird part of the film because you can see these beautiful cows and it's just one of those, they know their kids are up on the hill, face the other way, and they hang out by them, kind of stare at them, and just this, this, you know, a thousand cows, the visceral, the feeling you can feel in the air of just sadness.
01:34:01.000And actually, maybe that's a good point for...
01:34:11.000Super stoked that we are making our new film and it's called What the Health, that the exact same thing is happening to the health industry.
01:34:18.000The leading cause of diseases, heart disease, diabetes, cancer is from eating animal products and the same thing is happening.
01:34:25.000The American Cancer Society, the American Diabetic Society, all these organizations are not telling the information that's coming out of all these facts.
01:34:33.000That's, you know, countless medical studies of what's really killing us and causing diseases.
01:34:41.000So what are the facts as far as what's causing cancer and how has that been proven?
01:34:45.000So there's been a couple studies that show, I mean, there's the obvious ones like the World Health Organization just announced that the processed meat is linked to colon rectal cancer.
01:34:52.000Okay, so processed meat being meat with chemical preservatives.
01:34:56.000But it included bacon, ham, you know, all processed meat.
01:34:59.000Processed with chemical preservatives.
01:35:00.000And they put it in the same category as arsenic.
01:35:18.000And then now all these other organizations, they're slowly, you know, kind of putting it in the back of their website, maybe mentioning it, maybe not.
01:35:24.000So we're doing the same thing in this film is that we're interviewing these organizations and uncovering, and it's so crazy how it's like the exact same thing as cowspiracy.
01:35:34.000But there have also been studies linking grass-fed beef to healthy fats and that it's actually healthy for you to eat grass-fed animals.
01:35:42.000So I think what you're talking about is just preservatives.
01:35:45.000So you're talking about chemically processed animals?
01:35:47.000Unfortunately, no, because the World Health Organization showed that red meat, unprocessed, just raw red meat, is a type 2 carcinogen.
01:35:54.000And how are they making that distinction?
01:35:57.000Are they following people that ate a healthy diet, healthy vegetables along with red meat?
01:36:03.000They'll do these huge, like the EPIC Health Study, which has followed 250,000 people for over the last 40 years.
01:36:10.000And so there's these massive population studies.
01:36:14.000But the studies, and that's something we go into in the film, because you can look at it and be like, hey, red meat causes heart disease.
01:36:21.000And then you'll have another study that says, no, no, these meats are actually good for you.
01:36:25.000And then you just look at the funding.
01:36:40.000It's probably crazier in a way than Cal Spiracy.
01:36:42.000Because we also add in the link that we didn't have to deal with in the first issue.
01:36:46.000You're talking about like fear and stuff.
01:36:47.000The pharmaceutical company, how they're tied into this trinity.
01:36:51.000You have the animal agriculture industry, you have the lobby group, you have the government, you have the health organizations, then you have the pharmaceutical companies that profit off people getting sick from eating their products.
01:37:04.000So you're saying the pharmaceutical companies that profit off of people getting sick from eating meat support meat because they are aware, willingfully are aware that people are getting sick from them and they want to make sure that they have unhealthy people to treat.
01:37:18.000I mean, look, you have a $2 trillion stint industry.
01:37:23.000You have literally trillion-dollar industries who make drugs and who make surgeries.
01:37:42.000It's not wanting keeping people healthy.
01:37:45.000Again, you look to these health organizations, that's what you look to to tell us the truth.
01:37:50.000You look at the environmental groups, they're suppressing this information of the thousands of thousands of studies upon studies that have this information over and over, yet it's not being told to us.
01:38:00.000Right, but the pharmaceutical companies, do they even have to suppress information?
01:38:04.000Most people willfully ignore information.
01:38:07.000So why would they go out of their way to suppress information when it doesn't seem like there's any sort of pressure or trend for people to get healthier?
01:39:20.000Then they took just animal products out.
01:39:22.000They left them have their total shitty diets, just totally processed, crappy sugar food.
01:39:28.000They monitor these people or they let these people report their diets?
01:39:31.000There's a couple, there's at least five studies that have done similar sort of things, and I think some of them have been straight monitored.
01:39:37.000And how many people were talking about in these studies?
01:40:25.000When they start giving them high-fat diets, they're finding that low-carbohydrate, high-fat diets that introduce a state of ketosis is actually very good at preventing symptoms of epilepsy in children.
01:40:37.000My partner, she works with a young girl with epilepsy and she's on the ketogenic.
01:40:40.000But she's actually, she's raw vegan too, even, and still ketogenic.
01:40:58.000What about all the different factors that come into play with keeping a person's body healthy?
01:41:03.000Like, I've heard that one of the primary factors in cardiovascular disease is sedentary lifestyle, is the fact that your body atrophies.
01:41:10.000As much as your muscles atrophy and your back deteriorates, your heart does as well.
01:41:15.000And that a lot of that could be mitigated with exercise.
01:41:17.000And then one of the correlations that people are ignoring when they study diet and the diet in relationship to people's health is what are they doing with their body?
01:41:26.000What is the physical daily activity level of their body?
01:42:03.000But when you have clogged arteries, it comes to a point where it can be dangerous.
01:42:08.000And if you just do a clean diet for even, you know, try 30 days or something, all that flushing out of you when you're sitting on the toilet for four or five times a day, or 10 times a day, it's just flushing all the shit inside of you.
01:42:20.000And even if your ex starts exercising every time a day, that's trying to process this food that you're putting into it that it can't do just through exercise.
01:42:35.000That whole idea that every man has six pounds of undigested meat, you're dead if that's the case, by the way.
01:42:41.000But you do have plaque building up in your eyes.
01:42:43.000There's definitely plaque, but again, that speaks to a person's level of physical activity.
01:42:47.000There's different nutritional demands for someone that has a rigorous physical activity schedule than someone who doesn't.
01:42:53.000And when you give your body the same amount of food as someone who's like, say, a fucking sprinter or something like that, or a marathon runner, someone who's constantly burning off fuel, if you give your body, if you have a sedentary lifestyle in front of a computer sitting in a cubicle all day, and you give your body the same amount of food that the person who's a jogger consumes, you're going to get fat and fucked up because you're taking in too many calories and that's a contributor, a massive contributor to heart disease.
01:43:17.000That has to be considered always when you're talking about what's going on with a person's body.
01:43:50.000And they showed that having a being active versus the difference between someone who exercises all the time, who's overweight, and someone who's skinny, who's sedentary.
01:44:06.000You're less likely to die from being sedentary and skinny than being overweight and active.
01:44:15.000I mean, well, also, you're dealing with someone whose body has gotten to a point where it's deteriorated so poorly that the actual stress of exercise can be detrimental.
01:44:24.000Like, there's some people that they actually say, like, look, before you engage in any sort of exercise, you're going to have to lose weight.
01:44:30.000You're going to have to change your diet and give your body a lot of nutrients.
01:44:34.000Like, you have a really nutrient-deficient diet.
01:44:37.000But, of course, osteoporosis, there's a lot of different diseases that people get from having nutrient-deficient diets.
01:44:46.000That's why when women have osteoporosis, they give them calcium.
01:44:49.000So one of the things that mitigates it.
01:44:51.000Yeah, well, I mean, so this new film goes into huge depth about it.
01:44:56.000Similar to Cowspiracy, it's just packed full of information.
01:44:58.000But my point about this disease thing, like saying that it causes cancer and all these things, it's not just trying to be skeptical just for no reason.
01:45:06.000It's that what is stopping these people from eating nutrient-rich vegetables and really a broad variety of nutrient-rich foods as well as meat?
01:45:23.000And if you did that, would that be bad for you?
01:45:25.000If you had a rigorous exercise schedule and you took care of your body, drank a lot of water, and you ate nutrient-dense foods as well as meat, what kind of cancer are you getting there?
01:45:35.000Because that's really how people are supposed to live.
01:45:38.000Like, it's not necessarily that the only problem is that they're eating meat.
01:45:42.000That may be a problem, but it may not be.
01:45:44.000It may be a problem just because your body's just shit because you're not doing anything with it.
01:46:30.000We've been editing non-stop, so it's like running on three hours of sleep that I want to share about how just eating once a week when you already have cancer, was it diabetes, how just like once a week, how it raised a certain percentage of coming back again, just one time a week.
01:46:45.000What do you mean by eating once a week a day?
01:46:46.000So for example, like eating, if you have a woman who has had breast cancer, by eating one serving of whole dairy a day increases her chance of dying from breast cancer.
01:47:19.000When we went into doing cowspiracy, we went in, you know, just looking, looking at the information and just presenting it all and just finding out where's these studies coming from, what are their sources.
01:47:29.000then we're doing the same thing with this film.
01:47:30.000It's really shaping up to be, It's scary.
01:47:36.000It's got comic aspects the same way cowspiracy does.
01:48:04.000Raw milk is better than homogenized or pasteurized milk, but it's not the best shit for you.
01:48:11.000But my point being, how can you isolate that it is the consumption of meat that causes cancer and not the lack of nutrients from nutrient-dense foods along with meat?
01:48:22.000And is it an imbalance in the diet or is it meat causing cancer?
01:48:26.000Well, it's kind of, that's what they do.
01:48:35.000You see these other studies that you'll hear of, you know, the butter fat is good for you, the cholesterol is good for the brain, the brain, grain brain.
01:48:42.000And then you see who it's funded and you look deep into it.
01:48:46.000Is that where these studies come from and what the, you know, there's a movie out.
01:48:59.000Explain that movie if you want, because people might not have seen it, and it's really an important movie.
01:49:03.000Yeah, so it basically explores, and that's a big part of this film.
01:49:06.000It's happened in the tobacco industry.
01:49:07.000You don't have to prove that cigarette smoking is going to kill it.
01:49:11.000You just have to just put a little bit of doubt, just a little bit of doubt, and just like, remember when butter was on the cover of Time, and then everybody, oh my God, butter.
01:49:20.000Or, you know, just recently about how lettuce or bacon was more, lettuce was more unsustainable than bacon.
01:49:27.000And it's like, oh, God, thank God now I can eat bacon.
01:50:28.000And then now it's the meat and dairy industry.
01:50:29.000It's kind of like the last to fall of these.
01:50:32.000And then that's when it comes down to, you know, where AWRC's getting funded and where that merchant of doubt, where are those guys working now?
01:50:39.000Where's this industry where they're putting their specialties of marketing?
01:50:44.000Well, a lot of it's going to one of the most, if not the most powerful industry in the entire planet, meat and dairy.
01:50:50.000Well, I think we could all agree that as human beings, what we need for sure is access to information about things that affect us.
01:50:59.000When it comes to health, and when it comes to diet, when it comes to, when you find out that studies, like I used to do this joke about, I'm sure you're aware that the partnership for a drug-free America was funded by alcohol and tobacco companies and pharmaceutical companies.
01:51:11.000That's where they got all their money from.
01:51:12.000And they would do these commercials against pot.
01:51:14.000And I said, that's like hookers doing commercials against strippers.
01:51:16.000It's the most ridiculous fucking shit ever.
01:51:19.000But if you ever watch those preposterous commercials, like the girl with the talking dog, she comes home from school and her dog's telling her to stop getting high.
01:51:26.000Like, that's funded by pill companies.
01:51:29.000And the idea behind that, that that could be legal, that you can do that, and then you could put that commercial on television and not say, hey, the pill company, partnership for a drug-free America.
01:51:45.000And we need information, and we need it to be really clear.
01:51:49.000And if you are trying to stop information, like that stupid fucking part of the Patriot Act, if you're trying to stop information from getting to people, that is un-American, okay?
01:52:31.000We're seeing people making massive lifestyle changes and political changes based off of our first film, Cal Spiracy.
01:52:38.000And, you know, the potential, again, is there for any film to do that.
01:52:41.000It's just give the information, unbiased, let people decide for themselves.
01:52:45.000And that's where I'm super excited about the new film for that reason, that it's another chapter.
01:52:50.000It's another window into a world that we haven't really gotten to see before.
01:52:54.000Well, wherever there's money, right, you're going to have someone who's trying to make more of it and trying to stop any information that gets out that's going to prevent them from making more of it.
01:53:04.000And money just sort of finds holes and cracks and leaks through.
01:53:08.000And that's sort of, you know, like a river or something, you know, like streams of water.
01:53:16.000That's what's so cool, like at the end of the film, where we show that it was so dark in the making of the food, of actually making it.
01:53:22.000We said, you know, let's look if there's a glimmer of hope.
01:53:24.000And then we saw these, you know, these plant, what's it, Beyond Meat and the Beyond Egg.
01:53:29.000And then we found out Bill Gates and the guys from Twitter, they're putting their money into these new plant-based foods because they see this as the future.
01:53:39.000You know, these billionaires look five years, ten years down the road, and that's where they're putting their money.
01:53:43.000So now the money is going there, not ethically, not even for the environment.
01:53:46.000They're doing it because they see it's making money.
01:53:48.000Now there's only a few plants that have a full amino acid profile, right?
01:53:53.000There's only a few plants that are complete proteins.
01:53:55.000It's like quinoa, hemp, and there's a few other ones.
01:53:58.000Well, they all have complete, they all have all the amino acids.
01:54:01.000It's just they have them at different levels.
01:54:03.000So it's like, you know, you have your 23 amino acids, and they'll be high in six and low in, you know, the others.
01:54:09.000But they don't all have the same amino acids that meat does.
01:54:21.000And so what it is, because there used to be that belief that you had to combine foods, and so it's like you had to eat brown rice and broccoli.
01:54:26.000But the truth is that just eat a very diet and you get the exact levels that you need.
01:54:32.000The belief in like that eating meat has the amino acids that are closest to our own proteins, well then logically we should eat human beings.
01:54:42.000That would be the healthiest food to eat.
01:54:43.000But that's not really the healthiest food for people.
01:54:49.000Meat, that's where the amino acids are.
01:54:51.000Right, but no one's arguing that, right?
01:54:53.000What they're saying is that you should eat what we've eaten up until now.
01:54:57.000Like all the thousands of years of human development we've developed specifically for certain diets.
01:55:02.000That's why biodiversity, when you talk to people from different parts of the world, they might require different nutrients because their genetics have adapted to the nutrients that are in their environment.
01:55:12.000So no one's saying that you should eat people.
01:55:14.000That's kind of a disingenuous argument, right?
01:55:16.000Well, yeah, but I mean, but to say that we have to eat meat, because that's often the argument, is that, well, we have to eat these foods.
01:55:22.000Well, they're saying, I think what they're trying to, sorry to interrupt you, but I think they're saying to optimize, to optimize your performance, your health, your vitality, that animal-based proteins are more efficient.
01:55:34.000And that's the part our film goes into, like efficiency, efficiency in long-endurance athletes.
01:55:40.000So you're talking about Scott Jurek, the biggest, longest, the most healthiest, long-endurance athlete right now, Scott Jurek, he's strictly on a plant-based diet because it's the most efficient form of converting.
01:55:55.000Right, but you're talking about endurance athletes.
01:55:57.000You're talking about skinny guys that run a long time.
01:55:59.000You're not talking about explosive athletes.
01:56:03.000If you looked at like mixed martial artists, for example, or boxers or explosive athletes that have to optimize the physical capacity of their body, there's very, very, very, very, very few that have vegan diets.
01:56:14.000And few have tried it and they felt weak.
01:57:11.000right, but out of elite athletes, what percentage of elite athletes are vegans?
01:57:14.000We're actually looking into that because, you know, depending on what you're looking into, long endurance, like when Carl Lewis, when he was at his peak, he said he was completely vegan when he was at his peak.
01:57:28.000I mean, you know, he was caught with something.
01:57:30.000He was caught with some sort of a stimulant.
01:57:31.000It was at the same time that Glenn Johnson was caught, or Ben Johnson rather.
01:57:35.000You know, when Ben Johnson was caught with steroids, Carl Lewis was caught with something too.
01:57:39.000And Carlos had been caught with other things before.
01:57:41.000Like, you know, when I had Victor Conte in here, it was with the Balco guy, and he sort of explained all the different modalities and methods that these.
01:57:50.000He's like, every track and field athlete's dirty.
01:58:00.000So when you say, these guys are doing amazing, they're on a plant-based diet, and EPO, and testosterone, and HGH, and blood doping, and everyone else's, too.
01:59:35.000I think the problem is with the name paleo.
01:59:37.000But the idea of people eating things that are easily digestible, that's normal food, like lettuces and grasses and vegetables and meats and chicken and fish.
01:59:56.000Because, you know, people always complain that I have these one-sided conversations with people like you guys, and I don't bring anybody in to, and then I'm stuck trying to do it myself, and I'm ill-equipped.
02:00:49.000And I think I hope that, you know, as I said, that I think information is the most important thing.
02:00:54.000And when people are trying to deny information or restrict information based on the worry that they're going to lose money because they're doing something unethical, that should be a fucking crime.
02:01:04.000It shouldn't be a crime that you film that.
02:01:08.000It shouldn't be a crime that you show someone kicking a fucking cow or beating it over the head with a sledgehammer like we have seen if you watch those videos.
02:01:49.000Again, it has all the stats and statistics, has a link to where you can watch the film on Netflix.
02:01:54.000We had a book that just came out called The Sustainability Secret that covers even more statistics and information and behind-the-scenes stuff that happened in the film.
02:02:02.000You can get that through our website as well.
02:02:04.000And then check out our new film, What the Health.
02:02:06.000You can find that through our website, cowspiracy.com.