In this episode, I sit down with Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson to talk about his campaign and why he's running for president in 2020. We talk about why a third party candidate should be in the presidential race and why a Libertarian should be the nominee. I also discuss why I think Gary Johnson has a chance to win the 2020 election and what it means for the future of the Libertarian Party and the country as a whole if he's the nominee next fall. We also talk about what it's like to be a Libertarian and the baggage that comes with the party name and why you should vote for Gary Johnson if you don't already have a presidential candidate on your ballot. Finally, I talk about how I think the two-party system is broken and why it s time for a Third Party Candidate to run for President. If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review on iTunes. I'll be listening to your favorite streaming service so I can keep bringing you quality, high-quality content. Please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to my other shows! and spread the word to your friends about what you're listening to this podcast! Timestamps: 1:00 - Why Gary Johnson is running for President? 2:30 - Why he should be your next presidential candidate? 3:10 - What's the best third party option? 4: What s the best way to win in 2020? 5:15 - How much money you should spend on a campaign? 6: What is a good presidential candidate should you have? 8: Is Gary Johnson s chance of winning the 2020 primary ticket? 9:20 - Who should I vote for president? 11:40 - What s a good third party choice? 13:00 What s your favorite third party person? 14: What's a good chance of getting in the debates? 15:00 Is a good idea? 16:00 17:00 Who s the worst presidential candidate in the most likely to win it? 18:00 How do you think I m going to be the next election? 19:00 Can I win in the next presidential debate? 21: What do I know who s going to win? 22:00 Should I run against Hillary or Trump? 23:30 What s my best chance of being in the polls?
00:00:22.000Yeah, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
00:00:25.000It almost seems like this is the last gasp of the idea of running for president.
00:00:29.000You know, when you just do the mathematics of the fact that Hillary and Donald Trump are arguably the two most polarizing figures in American politics today, That Trump has to go out and get 30% of the far right to get the nomination.
00:00:45.000Hillary has to go out and get 30% of the far left.
00:00:48.000When 50% of Americans right now who are registering to vote are independent, at the end of the day, don't the two major parties represent about 30% of the electorate?
00:01:00.000And so where is – where are the interests?
00:01:04.000Where is the representation for the majority of interest in America?
00:01:14.000And speaking with a broad breaststroke, Libertarian, fiscally conservative, socially liberal.
00:01:19.000Yeah, that seems to be where most people hang their hat, but it's not something that most people identify with when they talk about their actual political persuasion.
00:01:29.000They usually say, you know, they're on the left or they're on the right.
00:01:32.000When someone says they're a libertarian, that's that dude at the office that has guns.
00:02:36.000And it's almost like – Everyone knows that the two-party system is kind of stupid, but everyone seems to think that any other party other than the two-party system is unrealistic, or any other party, like a Libertarian, Green Party, anything independent is unrealistic.
00:03:11.000As people do identify with the two parties, the rigged game of the system is that we're only presented with two choices, and that really starts with just being in the polls.
00:03:21.000Look, right now, if Mickey Mouse were the third name in any poll, Mickey would be polling at 30%, but Mickey's not on the ballot in all 50 states, and if I'm the Libertarian nominee, and I hope to be the Libertarian nominee, that happens next weekend,
00:03:38.000I'm going to be the only other candidate on the ballot in all 50 states.
00:03:43.000So, polling, I just want to be in the polls.
00:03:47.000There is no way a third party wins without being in the presidential debates.
00:03:56.000To get in the presidential debates, you have to be at 15% in the polls.
00:04:00.000Joe, the rigged game is that If you're not in the polls, there's no way that you can poll at 15%, but it has to be a consistent polling starting now.
00:04:14.000I was in the first national poll that I've been in a month ago.
00:04:18.000I haven't been in a national poll since, but a month ago I was at 11% against Hillary and Trump.
00:04:26.000And was this all established back when Ross Perot sort of shook up the political establishment because there was a lower percentage required to get involved in debates before that?
00:04:37.000Well, actually, there was no percentage points prior to Ross Perot.
00:04:42.000That was something that got established after Ross Perot.
00:04:44.000And what is amazing to me is Ross Perot, after having gotten 19% of the general election vote the first time, The second time he ran, they did not allow him in the presidential debates, which is just, I mean,
00:05:02.000The rigged nature of the game is, come this fall, if my name does not appear in another single poll, the Presidential Debate Commission will say, Gary Johnson, he just didn't poll high enough.
00:05:14.000What they won't say is that he wasn't in the polls.
00:05:28.000We think that, not think, it's Democrats and Republicans and they collude with one another to exclude everyone else.
00:05:36.000Bruce Fein is suing the Presidential Debate Commission.
00:05:40.000Bruce Fein's claim to fame is that he brought Nixon down in Watergate.
00:05:44.000But in the next sentence, he will tell you that the biggest thing he's ever done in his life is suing the Presidential Debate Commission because this has the opportunity of changing politics in America.
00:05:53.000I mean, this is really at the heart of this rigged game.
00:05:56.000You can't win the presidency if you're not in the Super Bowl of politics.
00:06:02.000We figure the dollar value alone of being in the presidential debates is several hundred million dollars.
00:06:08.000Just think of the Super Bowl and the ads that sell during the Super Bowl.
00:06:12.000And imagine having the second biggest audience, you know, like 75 million people for 90 minutes, two hours.
00:06:22.000That's a couple hundred million dollars worth of advertising.
00:06:27.000And if you're not in the show, people don't consider your vote.
00:06:31.000Even if you have 50% of these people that are registering and saying they're independent, what they're really saying is they're not committing to a left or a right.
00:06:38.000They're not committing to a Democratic or Republican.
00:06:40.000But are they going to vote independent?
00:06:42.000A lot of people, they have this idea that if you vote independent, you're throwing away your vote.
00:06:48.000That is a stigma that has to be overcome, right?
00:06:52.000But for those people, they do vote, right, and they end up voting on the basis of the lesser of two evils.
00:06:59.000But since they're registering to vote, and they're registering to vote as independent, they end up at the polls, I mean, for the most part.
00:07:06.000Most people don't even go to the polls.
00:07:32.000That does not exist now, but that has to be the future.
00:07:36.000And from a legislative standpoint, meaning, okay, you're president of the United States or governor of New Mexico, you could sign legislation.
00:07:45.000And these are the things that are going to happen.
00:07:47.000It's going to be easier and easier to vote, and that's what should be the case.
00:07:51.000Which should be the case if the system isn't totally right.
00:07:54.000Because the problem is, people like Hillary, the people that are longtime establishment people that have been a part of politics forever, the last thing they want to do is turn over the reins to the internet.
00:08:04.000Because she's had, how much did they say they were spending?
00:08:08.000Spending over a million dollars just to combat online trolls?
00:08:12.000Just to go on Reddit and forums and correct people?
00:08:15.000Yes, and I would be surprised if the number was that low.
00:08:20.000I think they're probably being pretty conservative about that.
00:08:23.000But the idea is that the internet doesn't like the establishment.
00:08:28.000They know that there's a real problem with the system in place as is.
00:08:32.000And the internet, when I say the internet, the broad...
00:08:35.000The stroke that you're painting is obviously young people who are a little bit more aware of how screwy this whole system that they're sort of born into is and that the people that are in charge don't want to change it.
00:08:47.000They want to keep it a two-party system.
00:08:49.000They want to keep this silly white hat, black hat, goofy game going on forever and keep control of the power.
00:09:42.000I think everybody should take the quiz, and whoever you line up with, I think you should knock yourself out supporting that person.
00:09:49.000Well, for me, taking the I side with quiz, amazingly, the next politician that I align with outside of the libertarians that are running for president is Bernie Sanders.
00:10:00.000I align with Bernie Sanders 73% of what he says.
00:10:03.000Now, when it comes to economics, we come to a T in the road.
00:10:07.000When it comes to socialism versus being an entrepreneur, I think?
00:10:32.000I push this website because it should work the other way around.
00:10:37.000Okay, I side with Bernie most of the time, but oh my gosh, the libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson, I side with next in line.
00:10:46.000And I do believe that Bernie is not going to get the nomination.
00:10:54.000Where does 50% of Republicans go that really are, at the end of the day, socially tolerant and fiscally conservative?
00:11:04.000And I think that is the majority of Republican voters, but they've been co-opted by the social conservatives that have an agenda that I think is really a turn-off to most of America.
00:11:16.000And it's okay to be a social conservative.
00:11:18.000There's nothing wrong with being a social conservative, but if you equate...
00:11:23.000If you make that public policy, if you pass laws regarding social conservatism, you end up putting people in jail for personal choices.
00:11:31.000And we do have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world, and I think that starts with the drug war.
00:11:37.000The word conservative is interesting, too, when you apply it to socialists, like social conservatism, because conservatives really want...
00:11:44.000The original conservatives were, stay out of my business, I'll stay out of yours.
00:11:48.000So social conservative really wouldn't apply to, like, things along the lines of gay marriage or same-sex unions or anything along those lines.
00:11:57.000You would say, well, leave those people alone.
00:11:58.000That would be the conservative approach, that government should stay out of those people's lives, right?
00:12:03.000Well, it started out as classical liberal.
00:12:07.000Classical liberal is being fiscally conservative and socially liberal, which got co-opted.
00:12:13.000I mean, that used to be what a conservative was, and that got co-opted.
00:12:38.000Well, and it's so polarizing because those issues at the end of the day, why can't Democrats and Republicans come together on some very common sense issues that would move the country forward?
00:12:53.000Well, decades ago, the term libertarian was very, very rarely used.
00:14:54.000It's such a strange show where one person says something and the other person's standing there shaking their head and not agreeing, and then they interject or they go over their time and the other person jumps in.
00:15:04.000It's one of the worst ways ever to get your point across.
00:15:09.000But, I agree, but if you're not in those debates, you are a non-entity.
00:15:16.000I mean, that's a seal of approval, if you will.
00:15:20.000It's a seal of credibility that you're on the stage in the first place.
00:15:24.000And if you're not on the stage, you don't have a chance.
00:15:26.000So a lot is riding on this Bruce Fine lawsuit, you believe.
00:15:29.000No, actually, what everything is riding on for me is being in the polls.
00:15:36.000If I am in the national polls, I'm back to the Mickey analogy, but Mickey's not on the ballot in all 50 states.
00:15:43.000So the justification of having me in the polls is that I am on the ballot in all 50 states, and I really do think that I represent the majority of Americans.
00:15:52.000I'm offering up proof of that with this iSide website.
00:15:56.000People say to me, why should I vote for you?
00:16:44.000That's the real proof that this is a locked up system.
00:16:47.000Because if you were in those debates with all those people during the same time, most likely a lot of people would be looking at you and go, you know, this Gary Johnson guy makes a lot of sense.
00:16:58.000And what you point out is absolutely correct in that every single Republican on stage was a social conservative.
00:17:06.000And when it comes to the Democrats, look, well, both parties are well-intentioned.
00:17:13.000But when it comes to Democrats, look, they do grow government.
00:17:16.000And I really believe that bigger government, although it's well-intentioned, at the end of the day, it takes tax money out of my pocket.
00:17:25.000That I could be spending on my life as opposed to the government spending that money.
00:17:29.000Ideally, you'd take your money and you'd be able to donate it to just exactly where you wanted that money to be spent, ideally.
00:17:38.000And I realize that that's not practical at all.
00:17:40.000But that's a really good point, the fact that the larger the government gets, the more money it costs to keep that going.
00:17:45.000So the idea that it's going to do better, it's going to do more, because there's more government, there's more people, there's more programs, but they cost more money.
00:17:53.000And then it just becomes a point of diminishing returns.
00:17:56.000And at the end of the day, statistically, it doesn't help.
00:17:59.000And that isn't to say, you know, I'm in the camp that believes that there are those people that are truly in need, but I think we've gone way over the line when it comes to people in need.
00:18:11.000And at the end of the day, if we continue the growth of government and taxation, And printing money, at the end of the day, we're going to suffer from horrible inflation at some point.
00:18:26.000Do we have a fighting chance against what is the worst, most insidious tax of all, which is inflation, which erodes your buying capacity for the money that you earn?
00:21:29.000All the help wanted signs in the state went down because everybody had to go out and get a job.
00:21:33.000Now the legislature sued me immediately on the basis that what I was doing was unconstitutional, that what I was doing needed to be passed by the legislature, that it couldn't be an executive order.
00:21:45.000And after six weeks of implementing this program, the Supreme Court in New Mexico ruled that what I had done was unconstitutional.
00:21:52.000I'm not here to debate that, but we kind of proved that what I was saying was correct.
00:21:59.000They never did back it up with legislation.
00:22:02.000They could have overridden the courts by just codifying what we did in legislation, but they never did that.
00:22:10.000So what you're saying is what you did was effective, but they just ruled it unconstitutional and they never changed any of the rules.
00:23:40.000So I was a Republican governor in New Mexico, state's two-to-one Democrat.
00:23:46.000One of the big surprises I've had, having served as governor, is I really naively thought at the end of the day Democrats and Republicans would come together over issues that were right, meaning do the right thing as opposed to lining up politically.
00:24:01.000So in this case, they lined up politically and never passed the legislation that...
00:24:10.000And six weeks was not, I mean, I say anecdotally, all the help wanted signs went down.
00:24:16.000They did go down, but really not enough time to garner the statistics that could have made that, in fact, a national program, emulated by other states because we would have shown success doing it.
00:25:29.000And to this day, that is still in place.
00:25:33.000That was moving from a fee-for-service, meaning if you were on welfare and you went to the hospital or you went to the emergency room, a bill was sent to the state, Medicaid, and the state paid that bill.
00:25:46.000Three-quarters of that bill got picked up by the federal government.
00:25:49.000One-quarter of it gets picked up by the state, but that's Medicaid.
00:25:54.000And by switching to an insurance model or a managed care model, we saved 20% on the whole bill.
00:26:03.000I mean, it's just common sense to the max.
00:26:11.000Now, when you look at things like Obamacare and the criticism of Obamacare, and you look at what you were trying to implement in your own state, what do you think could have been done differently?
00:26:22.000Well, I think that welfare and Medicare, so health care for those over 65, I think the federal government needs to devolve both of these services to the states.
00:26:35.000Now, currently, of course, health care for those over 65 is completely federal.
00:26:40.000But in my heart of hearts, if the federal government would have block granted New Mexico a fixed amount of money, I think?
00:27:09.000Governor Johnson, you are in charge of healthcare delivery to those that are poor, welfare, and healthcare to those that are over 65. In my heart of hearts, I believe that I could have delivered that or seen over the administration of the delivery.
00:27:27.000So if the federal government did that, and that's the only way to reform Medicaid and Medicare, is devolve it to the states, 50 laboratories of innovation, best practice, there would be some fabulous success that would get emulated.
00:27:42.000There'd be horrible failure that would get avoided.
00:27:45.000But as opposed to one size fits all, the federal government, we'd actually come up with solutions on how to cap And how to contain the costs within the system.
00:28:00.000Talking about Obamacare, what we really need when it comes to health care is just free market solutions to health care.
00:28:11.000Healthcare is as far removed from free market right now as it possibly can be.
00:28:17.000In a free market system for healthcare, we would not have health insurance to cover ourselves for ongoing medical need.
00:28:26.000We would have health insurance to cover ourselves for catastrophic injury and illness.
00:28:31.000And we would pay as you go in a system that would probably cost about one-fifth of what it currently costs.
00:29:36.000Well, why should I buy a hamburger when I have grocery insurance and I can buy fillets?
00:29:41.000Right, but under that logic, what is anyone doing differently because they have health insurance?
00:29:46.000It's not like they're getting extra treatments.
00:29:48.000Well, right now, Chief Justice Roberts, when he said that Obamacare was a tax on people, my personal insurance premiums have quadrupled, and I have not been to see a doctor in three years.
00:30:33.000If you had a free market approach to healthcare, you would have all of that.
00:30:38.000You'd have advertised pricing and you would have...
00:30:42.000Outcomes based on prior patients that had gone in.
00:30:47.000But there is an issue with people that do have injuries, whether it's a catastrophic injury, whether it's some sort of a disease that comes up, where the amount of money that they're going to have to spend for healthcare can be catastrophic.
00:30:59.000And I started out by saying we would not have insurance to cover ourselves for ongoing need, but we would have insurance to cover ourselves for catastrophic injury and illness.
00:31:10.000Right, but how do you define what's catastrophic and what's not?
00:31:15.000Okay, but what about the health consequences of avoiding or not avoiding treatment?
00:31:18.000Because there's going to be a lot of people that don't have the money and are going to just deal with certain issues, like a surgery perhaps that you need, and you're just going to avoid it, knee surgery, things along those lines?
00:32:08.000Here are our outcomes and you can come in and get a meniscus tear surgery for what would end up to be hundreds of dollars as opposed to thousands of dollars.
00:32:17.000So sort of like the way they do Lasix eye surgery today?
00:32:26.000I mean, you're starting to see advertised pricing.
00:32:29.000And as opposed to the $100 aspirin that when you go into the hospital, when you read the fine print, but of course you're not paying for it, so you don't care.
00:32:37.000So in that sense, you would essentially go to a hospital, they would diagnose you, they would tell you, here's the issue, you have to get a gallbladder, and then you'd go to gallbladders or us.
00:32:45.000Well, or just from the very beginning, right.
00:33:03.000This is something that government could really lay the groundwork for.
00:33:08.000But it's, like I say, it's far removed from what I'm talking about.
00:33:13.000Fiscally conservative, when you say fiscally conservative, when you talk about issues like welfare and things along those lines, people get a sense, a lot of people do, that you are perhaps callous or uncaring about poor people.
00:33:53.000It's probably one of the most interesting things about having 50 states is that you can have 50 different experiments.
00:34:01.000And we're seeing that, of course, with legalized marijuana in Colorado bringing in more tax revenue than alcohol for the first time ever.
00:34:09.000I mean, this is a huge thing that's happening right now in Colorado, an experiment in government.
00:34:16.000The federal government tried to block it at one point, and they were very concerned with it, but now they're letting it go, and it's proving to be incredibly financially beneficial to that state.
00:34:24.000Now you're seeing Seattle or Washington State, Washington, D.C., other states are starting to join in, and it's going to probably go nationwide within the next decade or so.
00:34:36.000This is a perfect example, right, of states coming up with an experiment, the experiment proving to be fiscally effective, and then moving forward with it.
00:34:43.000And Colorado probably has done the best job when it comes to the recreational states.
00:34:48.000Washington State has done the worst job, meaning that the taxes are so high in Washington State that the black market is alive and well.
00:34:57.000How high is the taxes in Washington State?
00:35:02.000Yeah, and Washington State, well, Washington State, they'll have an...
00:35:07.000Whatever the rate is, though, it applies four times.
00:35:10.000It applies to growing, it applies to processing, it applies to every single...
00:35:15.000So that at one point, two summers ago, right after Washington State implemented it and that pot went on sale, at one point, Marijuana in Washington State was selling for $26,000 a pound.
00:36:21.000But more significant than the tax revenue is the savings in law enforcement, the courts and the prisons.
00:36:29.000We have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world, and the reason behind that is the war on drugs.
00:36:37.000We've got tens of millions of convicted felons in this country that but for our drug laws would otherwise be taxpaying, law-abiding citizens.
00:37:06.000At the heart of that, at the heart of the militarization of our police forces is breaking down doors in the name of confiscating drugs.
00:37:15.000And a lot of that has been recently revealed, was started off during the Nixon administration as just trying to control the civil rights movement and trying to control the anti-war movement.
00:37:24.000The way they did it, they recognized that these people were using marijuana.
00:38:01.000Like if someone became a president, what could be done to stop this influx of private prisons, this prison industrial complex that we're finding ourselves in this horrible quagmire with?
00:39:55.000So the private prison, Wackenhut in particular, came in and said, And the federal courts were running the prisons in New Mexico.
00:40:04.000So, what I'm about to tell you, if you think that we were going to get away with any less goods or services being delivered to the prison industry, guess again.
00:40:16.000Federal courts are running the prisons in New Mexico.
00:40:19.000On an apples-to-apples, oranges-to-oranges basis, instead of $100 a day, they offered it up for $66 a day.
00:40:29.000If that isn't good government, I don't know what is.
00:40:32.000And in New Mexico, I constantly said, if we would adopt rational drug laws, if we could let people out of prison, it'll be a lot easier to empty the private prisons than it will be the public prisons.
00:40:46.000But I would imagine that something like a private prison, which is a company, and it's a company that...
00:40:52.000Companies tend to aspire towards growth.
00:40:55.000And when you have a private prison that profits off of people being in jail, you would tend to think that they would try to maximize their potential for growth versus the government, right?
00:41:06.000But maybe the component in here that you're missing is, as opposed to growth, just think of it as stepping in and taking over the services that are currently being provided for a lot less money.
00:41:19.000Meaning taking over all the prisons and that would be their growth.
00:41:26.000And assuming, and this is my experience now, and don't get me wrong, I mean, there's just a logic behind, gee, if you're a private prison, then you're in it for the money.
00:42:25.000And this mandatory sentencing, which really starts with the drug laws that we have, I mean, this is the reason why we have this high incarceration rate that we have.
00:42:35.000How is it legal that these prison unions actually do that?
00:43:12.000Just extend that to other things that we see also.
00:43:15.000For example, you see ads on television that say increase the expenditures for education that's being paid for from tax dollars from teachers.
00:43:28.000We see advertisements all the time from public institutions that, in essence, we're paying for for increased funding all the time, every time we turn around.
00:43:41.000Isn't that a manipulation of our brains, you know, in a way that many times just belies the underlying logic that, no, they shouldn't get more money.
00:43:56.000Well, the issue though is this is very different because you're talking about people lobbying to try to lock up other human beings for their own profit.
00:44:16.000If there's a group of people, the massive amount of the general public doesn't believe that people should be in jail for a lot of the drug crimes they're in jail for, especially marijuana.
00:44:25.000If you look at the statistics, you look at the amount of money that's being spent on it, most people would say, this is fucking crazy.
00:46:26.000Now, this perfect example is they say that you have to do A, B, C, and D, use the transgender bathroom as the latest and greatest front page.
00:46:35.000Here's what the federal government is requiring.
00:46:37.000But it costs you as a state 15 cents to deliver on getting the 11 cents.
00:46:43.000It actually is a negative to take federal money.
00:46:46.000So abolishing the Federal Department of Education, which I think people think was established under George Washington when it was established under Jimmy Carter, tell me what really has been value added when it comes to the Federal Department of Education since the 80s,
00:47:07.000Because is there any benefit at all to being open-minded and trying to get people to discriminate against transgender people less?
00:47:16.000Or is this some sort of a political hot topic that the government has latched onto to try to get people to think that they're progressive and they're moving towards the right direction?
00:47:25.000Because, I mean, how many people are we even talking about?
00:48:40.000That is what they're requiring, right?
00:48:42.000But when I think of that bullshit, if you will, over an issue that has never been an issue before, as governor of New Mexico, Joe, I may have vetoed more legislation than the other 49 governors in the country combined.
00:49:19.000And certainly, the federal government shouldn't be stepping in and doing this because North Carolina right now is suffering the wrath, if you will, of the whole country that says we're going to boycott North Carolina, we're going to have nothing to do with North Carolina as a result of them having passed this legislation.
00:49:35.000But again, what they're saying in passing this legislation is not that complicated.
00:49:41.000They're just saying that you have to change your gender and your birth certificate, right?
00:49:44.000I mean, it may be discriminatory at heart, but when you look at the actual paperwork, like what's required in order to use the women's room...
00:49:53.000Like, it's not saying that you have to have an XY chromosome to use the men's room.
00:49:58.000They're saying you have to identify as a male on your birth certificate.
00:50:01.000So if a woman decides to become a man or transition to a man, she decides she's a man at heart, and she changes that on her birth certificate, they don't do a chromosomal test on her.
00:50:09.000So it's just a matter of a paperwork change.
00:50:11.000I'm not really sure how much less you could require of someone to use a different bathroom that corresponds to the gender of their birth.
00:50:21.000Well, I would just disagree that the government has taken a role here that never had to be established in the first place.
00:50:31.000But if you do want to discourage discrimination against transgender people, how would you go about encouraging that?
00:50:39.000Or is that just a social issue that needs to be worked out with people?
00:50:51.000This issue has existed our entire lifetimes, and have there been any reported incidents of anything anywhere?
00:50:58.000I'm not aware of any incidents anywhere.
00:51:00.000Well, I'm sure there's been something, and I'm sure some people feel maligned, but I just don't know if necessarily there's enough demand to require a law change and what all this hullabaloo is about, about this law change.
00:51:13.000When I discuss it with people, and I'm I try to be as open-minded as humanly possible when it comes to people's choices and what they want to do, whether it's regarding gender or sex or whatever you want to do.
00:51:52.000The way to go about it is to boycott the state.
00:51:54.000The way to go about it is boycott the state, just like happened in Arizona when Jan Brewer started to talk about vilifying Mexican immigration and...
00:52:03.000And conventions and the whole country was boycotting Arizona when it came to, you know, traveling there.
00:52:56.000Or at the end of the day, is it just going to add time and money to our lives and not really do anything?
00:53:02.000To play devil's advocate, is there any benefit in having it in the news?
00:53:06.000Is there any benefit in it being debated so that people become more and more aware of it?
00:53:12.000I mean, I think whether or not you look at Caitlyn Jenner as a real issue in this country, I think what the issue is is that people are becoming more aware that there are folks out there that don't necessarily fit with our standard Idea of what gender is.
00:54:01.000It's so confusing in some ways because they're outliers on both sides.
00:54:06.000Like, I have met transgender women who, without a doubt, I would consider them a woman.
00:54:11.000I mean, it looks like a woman, she talks like a woman, has sensibilities like a woman, dresses like a woman, whatever the fuck that means, right?
00:54:16.000But then on the other side, I've seen, I mean, there's this guy that identifies, we were talking about this guy recently, identifies as a woman, has a beard, has a penis, doesn't want to have a sex change, doesn't take hormones, identifies as a woman, wants to use the women's room.
00:55:21.000If you're in the boys' room, though, see, I think it would be less of an issue.
00:55:25.000This is knee-jerk, of course, and it's based on, let's have, instead of having a one-size-fits-all, how about let's work this out at the absolute lowest level we can work it out, and maybe we'll come to some real,
00:56:39.000Because it's so bizarre, and there's no answer.
00:56:41.000I love when something has no answer, when you just sit around going, man, I don't know.
00:56:45.000Because people will take sides, and they'll run with their side and make sure that you think that their side is the only solution whatsoever, when there really isn't an only solution.
00:57:37.000Couple of kids out of thousands of students.
00:57:41.000That's kind of an easy way to look at it.
00:57:43.000And wouldn't it be better for everyone if we just became more open-minded and more friendly and loving and let people do whatever the fuck they want to do.
00:57:51.000Let the man who identifies as a woman, let him use the woman's room if he actually looks like a woman.
00:57:57.000But if you have a beard, maybe we should pull you aside and go, dude, you can use the men's room.
01:00:52.000Well, 13. I had that motorcycle license at 13. Whoa.
01:00:55.000You could drive a motorcycle in New Mexico at 13. Whoa.
01:00:58.000Now, as a person who's governed a state, and you look at what happens when someone gets in office, when Obama gets in office, promises all these things, gets in office, changes almost everything.
01:01:12.000I mean, what are the differences between the hurdles of someone who governs a state versus someone who governs the United States?
01:01:19.000And how much more difficult is it to change things?
01:01:22.000It seems like the United States is like a gigantic ship That takes so much effort to shift even slightly that these presidents get out of office eight years later, exhausted, looking like they've aged 50 years, and very little gets done.
01:01:40.000Well, I think there is a silver bullet to the system, and I hope I'm tying into what you're saying, but I do think there's a silver bullet to the system, and that would be term limits.
01:01:50.000I think that for the most part, politicians, once they get in office, the main concern is to stay in office.
01:03:07.000What are your thoughts on all the other recreational drugs, not just marijuana, but the more controversial ones, like maybe cocaine or psilocybin, LSD, things along those lines?
01:03:18.000Well, so when I was governor of New Mexico, I had a...
01:03:23.000I went to Portland, Oregon, and judges in Portland, Oregon—there were judges that wanted to meet with me in Portland.
01:03:30.000And so I went to meet with these judges, and I didn't know what it was going to be about, but it was six judges, Portland, Oregon, state district judges—I'm sure I'm getting the wrong label— What they said was, hey, Governor Johnson, we're here to tell you we completely agree with everything it is that you're saying,
01:03:48.000but we would like to share with you some stories here that maybe you can pass on to others that will allow others to better understand the drug issue.
01:03:58.000They said that the really horrible drug out there is methamphetamine, that people that use methamphetamine really have their behavior altered and not in a good way.
01:04:07.000So it's really the boogeyman drug out there.
01:04:11.000They said methamphetamine is the best example that we can think of of a prohibition drug.
01:04:17.000It exists because it's cheap and it's easy to make.
01:04:21.000And what they said was that, hey, we're not suggesting the following, but if cocaine were legal...
01:04:28.000These people would be using cocaine instead of methamphetamine without the negative behavioral consequence.
01:04:37.000But if the government were to tell the truth when it comes to cocaine, cocaine puts holes in your heart.
01:04:45.000People that use cocaine their entire lives are stereotypically Whitney Houston that die before they're 50 because they die of a heart attack from using cocaine.
01:04:53.000Now, will there still be people that will use cocaine knowing that they might die of a heart attack?
01:05:00.000I think there'd be less cocaine use if people actually knew the truth and could trust government when it comes to the truth.
01:05:08.000I just maintain that 90% of the drug problem is prohibition-related, not use-related, and that is not to discount the problems with use and abuse, but that should be the focus.
01:05:19.000When you have 8,000 deaths a year in this country—8,000, which is staggeringly low— Welcome to my show!
01:05:56.000I mean, we're living in a culture that has alcohol available at every block all over the world.
01:06:01.000I mean, everywhere you go, there's a restaurant or a bar or somewhere that you can buy enough alcohol to drink yourself to death.
01:06:07.000It's readily available, yet When you consider the amount of people that actually drink alcohol, the low number of deaths is pretty incredible.
01:06:16.000And it's because we're aware of the effects of alcohol and it's pretty, when you get a bottle of Jack Daniels, it is pretty consistent.
01:06:24.000Well, but there are 100,000 deaths a year that get contributed to alcohol consumption.
01:06:32.000And I'm not talking about drinking and driving or violence committed under the- Just alcohol abuse.
01:06:38.000Statistically, no one dies from marijuana, statistically.
01:06:42.000What I was going to get to was that when you look at what's happening in Colorado, one of the more interesting things is the lessing of violent crime and drunk driving.
01:06:51.000Those are two effects that have dropped pretty drastically, noticeably, statistically, because of the legalization of marijuana.
01:07:00.000You would reduce, because of the legalization of a less harmful, more peaceful drug, you'd reduce the effects of what's right now a readily available and incredibly prevalent drug.
01:07:11.000I have always maintained that legalizing marijuana will make for a better planet.
01:07:17.000On the medicinal side of marijuana Marijuana products directly compete with legal prescription drugs, painkillers, antidepressants that statistically kill 100,000 people a year.
01:07:35.000On the recreational side, I've always maintained that legalizing marijuana will lead to less overall substance abuse because people are going to find it as such a safer alternative than everything else that's out there, starting with alcohol.
01:07:50.000The campaign to legalize marijuana in Colorado was a campaign based on marijuana is safer than alcohol.
01:07:58.000And Joe, as you were pointing out, all the statistics that all the naysayers were going to go south have gone better.
01:08:24.000And I think a prime example of how screwy the system gets when people lobby against the legalization of things that don't harm anyone is the fact that hemp is illegal federally.
01:08:37.000And that we're trying to make it legal and trying to make it legal statewide in various states and start production of hemp.
01:09:48.000Yeah, well, that's, I mean, that's all been proven.
01:09:50.000So we're in a strange time that it's 2016, it's still illegal.
01:09:55.000And it's slowly starting to become legal and people starting to...
01:09:58.000I believe in Kentucky and a few other states, they're allowing farmers to profit off of this incredibly vibrant plant that's easy to grow, doesn't require pesticides, has a variety of uses as a textile, as a commodity for food, full amino acid profile.
01:10:40.000I'm still the highest elected official in the United States to call for the legalization of marijuana, although Bernie Sanders apparently rolled out of bed, hit his head, and now he's come to that same epiphany.
01:11:01.000No, not until he's been running for Senate.
01:11:06.000So you think it's like one of those lick your finger, put it up in the air, check where the breeze is going?
01:11:09.000I'm glad that he's joined the big crowd.
01:11:12.000But in 1999, 30% of Americans supported legalizing marijuana.
01:11:18.000In 2016, Sixty percent of Americans now are supporting the legalization of marijuana, and not one politician outside of Bernie Sanders in office is, and when I say elected official, at the congressional,
01:11:34.000senatorial, or gubernatorial level, not one politician in that group outside of Bernie Sanders, myself, have espoused legalizing marijuana.
01:12:25.000So if we woke up today and there was no government at all, would you think that we would possibly create one guy that runs the whole thing?
01:12:34.000We would agree that that would be the best way to run things?
01:12:38.000I have a theory that the best way to run things would be that every 16 years we would have a benevolent dictator take over for two years.
01:12:47.000So what would happen in those other days, the other 14 years?
01:12:51.000Well, the other 16 years, you'd have elected officials.
01:12:54.000And then for two years, you'd have a benevolent dictator step in and right all the wrongs that...
01:13:08.000I'm trying to be funny here, but trying to bring out a point that Actually, if you could have that benevolent dictator step in and right the wrongs that...
01:13:19.000We don't live in a democracy in this country.
01:13:47.000Nazi Germany was a democracy before Hitler took power.
01:13:53.000So what would be the, I mean, besides your 16-year, two-year benevolent dictator thing, what would be the way to fix the current system?
01:14:03.000Like, say, if Gary Johnson gets in office, what would you do?
01:14:06.000What would be one of the first things you did?
01:14:08.000Well, I do think that government is too big, that it tries to accomplish too much.
01:14:13.000If, at a minimum, Gary Johnson were able to just put a cap on spending, the impact of that, when you consider When you consider the ultimate impact of inflation and how that's going to kick in and how that's going to so adversely affect our lives,
01:14:33.000that would right a lot of wrongs because you do have economic growth.
01:14:37.000You tie that with the fact that you just put a...
01:14:39.000I'm trying to put the most minimal bars out there possible that would really have a positive impact going forward from a financial standpoint.
01:14:58.000It's about you making decisions in your own lives.
01:15:01.000It's about the fact that the government, that crony capitalism is alive and well, that there are favors granted to those that have money, as opposed to a level playing field that everybody would actually have an equal shot at the opportunity that That there currently is unavailable because of government and the actual protections that exist for those that do have money as opposed to those that don't.
01:15:29.000So once you get into office, how would you go about minimizing government?
01:15:35.000Well, without any legislation whatsoever, and I am speaking now, having been governor of New Mexico for eight years, I ran all of state government.
01:15:45.000I appointed the heads of all the agencies, and from that standpoint, the idea was just to make things better.
01:16:23.000So going back to what we had discussed earlier, that when government gets too big, you reach a point of diminishing returns, when it becomes so swollen that it requires so much money to stay up, that it just doesn't support itself.
01:16:37.000So say you get into office, and you look at the current system we have right now, you look at all the bureaucracy and the red tape, what do you start to chop away at?
01:16:45.000Well, what I did in New Mexico, and I said I would do this in New Mexico, is that, you know, I wasn't going to fire anybody, but let's just manage attrition.
01:16:54.000Let's just have some common sense here.
01:17:40.000Difference between cheap and frugal, but I'm a pretty frugal cat.
01:17:44.000So what do you do with something that's very controversial and often criticized, like Homeland Security?
01:17:49.000Like, there was an article that came out yesterday about Homeland Security going after, they're using Homeland Security to go after massage parlors for giving sex to people, for, you know, hand jobs or whatever.
01:18:01.000I would have never, in the first place, I would have never established the Department of Homeland Security.
01:18:07.000Now, as president, I either get to sign or veto legislation.
01:18:11.000I would sign legislation that would abolish the Department of Homeland Security, or I would merge it with the FBI. I just think we do have too many agencies.
01:18:21.000And when you hear about a story like Homeland Security going into a massage parlor...
01:18:33.000How does Homeland Security, something that's set up to prevent terrorist attacks, how does it eventually get bastardized and distorted to the point where they're utilizing the legislation that was put in place to protect people from terrorist attacks to stop guys getting hand jobs?
01:19:39.000There's so many things to be aware of.
01:19:41.000Well, as governor of New Mexico, here's something I did as governor of New Mexico, and it's something I would do as president of the United States.
01:19:47.000As governor of New Mexico, I set up this open door after four policy, where the third Thursday of every month, I saw anyone in the state of New Mexico starting at four o'clock in the afternoon until 10 o'clock in the evening on five-minute increments.
01:20:03.000And it was amazing, Joe, the stories of people that came in and what they had to say.
01:20:32.000As President of the United States, I would set up an open door after four policy for atrocities in government, for waste fraud and abuse atrocities.
01:20:42.000Open door after four, but you're talking about 300 million people.
01:21:20.000I'm just saying, I think I can make this mechanism work.
01:21:23.000That as a result of having this mechanism, I'm going to find out in a very short amount of time that the Department of Homeland Security is busting massage parlors.
01:21:32.000Well, you can find that out just as easily through Twitter.
01:22:08.000And in a nutshell, they come up with a completely redesigned helicopter as opposed to the original bid, which was off the shelf.
01:22:15.000That would have been $4 billion, now it's $16 billion and they haven't flown a helicopter.
01:22:21.000Well, if you had a waste, fraud and abuse open door after four, I'd have known about it and I would have stepped right in the middle of it.
01:22:29.000But is that waste, fraud or abuse or is it just innovation and the expenses involved in changing a design?
01:22:36.000But the bid originally was for off-the-shelf helicopters that they were building and that there was going to be bolt-on avionics.
01:22:46.000And the first thing that this military procurement committee said was, we don't want an aluminum frame, we want a steel frame.
01:24:27.000So I'm reading about it, and as governor of New Mexico, I guarantee you that residents from Flint would have been at my open door after four saying, look, I got dirty water.
01:24:41.000I'd like to think, Joe, that I would have gotten into the middle of it immediately.
01:24:47.000If I didn't get into it immediately, I'm guessing my second door, open door after four, instead of having four people show up from Flint, would have 80 people showing up from Flint.
01:25:05.000And there needs to be a mechanism for the President of the United States to stay in touch.
01:25:09.000The imperial presidency, the notion that the president, you know, whenever the president travels, it's tens of millions of dollars every time he travels.
01:25:32.000Why can't the President of the United States come into Los Angeles in a very stealth way and travel without having to block all of traffic in Los Angeles?
01:25:43.000Which you have to have experienced many times.
01:25:53.000Well, or how about one of those corporate aircraft that are in the military that would cost a tenth of what Air Force One cost?
01:26:03.000What are the benefits of Air Force One?
01:26:04.000Does Air Force One have some sort of a pod where the president can parachute to safety if they try to shoot it down or something crazy like that?
01:26:10.000You wonder about that one, but what about an ejection seat?
01:26:38.000Well, also, when you isolate the president and you make them this person, they have to shut down all the city streets and bring in a gigantic parade of stormtroopers that have to stand by his side.
01:28:03.000I mean, maybe that's not the insane part.
01:28:06.000Does it not seem logical that anyone who can mathematically be elected president in 2012, that would have included the Libertarian Party and the Green Party, Does it not seem logical that anyone capable of being mathematically elected president of the United States,
01:28:27.000270 electoral votes, should at a minimum be included in the polls?
01:29:03.000Well, the two-party system is the biggest hurdle right now for...
01:29:09.000I think most people, when you think about the potential of running for president, the biggest hurdle is that you have to be accepted and you have to be the nominee of one of these two parties.
01:29:23.000And right now, because of just how polarizing Hillary and Trump are, that just being in the polls, that that will register enough dissatisfaction with any third party name, in this case, me, that I'd like to think that all the things that we've talked about right now,
01:29:44.000you wouldn't hear out of the mouths of either Hillary or Trump.
01:30:11.000The real problem is a lot of the stuff that he said running versus what he's done in office.
01:30:17.000The hope and change website that talks about whistleblowers and then you look at his actual actions towards whistleblowers and actual actions towards the press.
01:32:42.000He gave all the information to media, saying, I do not in any way have the resources to release this data, because if I release this data, maybe I'm going to put people in harm's way.
01:32:55.000I don't want to put people in harm's way, so I'm giving this up to...
01:33:01.000And I can't remember the institutions that he gave it up to, but he said, they have the resources that they will be able to disseminate this information and not put people...
01:33:15.000It was just an excellent, excellent documentary on what I will say is a real American patriot.
01:33:46.000To play devil's advocate, if you do pardon Snowden, that means that if there was a crime being committed at all, that crime was being committed by the NSA. If you demonize Snowden...
01:33:58.000As soon as they arrest Snowden or they try to arrest Snowden, they say Snowden's a bad guy.
01:34:18.000Well, if he's exonerated, if he's done something that violates the whatever agreement that he had to sign in order to work for the NSA, That means that the crime that he exposed was so significant that it was valid for him to violate whatever agreement he signed with the federal government that right now they're pursuing him as a criminal for.
01:34:40.000Which means someone needs to go to jail for the crime.
01:34:42.000If they're not going to put him in jail...
01:36:41.000This just came to my attention like 10 days ago, that the NSA is an executive order under Truman that the President of the United States could repeal immediately.
01:37:02.000I do not want to downplay on the complexity of what this might entail.
01:37:07.000But at the end of the day, is it possible to turn the satellites away from you and I? Well, that wouldn't be that we would want to get rid of the NSA. What would it want to be is maybe redirect their efforts.
01:37:42.000It's bizarre that they've just randomly decided to get the entire country under surveillance when there's no evidence to point that, you know, you're stopping anything or eliminating anything.
01:37:52.000But you are putting people in a compromised position because if people know that the government has been paying attention to all their emails and voicemails and all that jazz, then People will adjust their behavior.
01:38:04.000They'll be a little bit more cautious.
01:38:05.000They're a little bit more cautious with their criticism.
01:38:08.000And if you are ever in a situation where you are against the government in any way, they will have so much data on you.
01:38:19.000Like, if you're one of those people that decides to Edward Snowden it from here on out, boy, good luck with that.
01:38:25.000I mean, they will instantly be pulling up emails and voicemails and you've got a real problem on your hands.
01:38:32.000Because it's not just metadata, right?
01:38:45.000There are many of them that are in prison for the same.
01:38:49.000Yeah, well, there's a gentleman that was one of the original whistleblowers who was actually one of the coders who was working with the NSA when they first started designing this sort of program, and he resigned and went public with all this.
01:39:58.000Bill Binney is the guy, and I've seen him interviewed several times, and he realized while this was all going on, he's like, you're not looking for criminals.
01:41:27.000Everything he's done in regards to people blowing whistles and revealing government problems, they've prosecuted them.
01:41:35.000They've been worse on freedom of the press than any other president.
01:41:38.000We look at Bush as being this really terrible, draconian guy.
01:41:43.000But the Bush administration was easier on whistleblowers and easier on press and trying to get press to reveal their sources than the Obama administration.
01:41:52.000Back to the reality not matching up at all.
01:42:30.000More, I mean, what do you do about that?
01:42:32.000What do you do about a program that the drone attacks have...
01:42:35.000Resulted in, I believe the numbers, like more than 80% accidental death or more than 80% civilians being killed versus the intended target.
01:42:47.000Well, this is the unintended consequence of our military interventions, that they're making things worse, not better.
01:42:54.000And I am talking about boots on the ground.
01:42:57.000I'm talking about dropping bombs and the fact that drones do fly and kill thousands of innocent people.
01:43:03.000And when I had Mike Baker on, who was a former CIA operative, when he and I were discussing this, he was saying that, look, what you're seeing is lawyers make those decisions.
01:43:13.000These decisions of whether to bomb or not to bomb, they're being done by lawyers.
01:43:17.000They sit down, they go over the possibilities, they go over the risks versus reward, and they make the call.
01:44:04.000Obviously, you need to protect people.
01:44:06.000Obviously, there's threats out there, both...
01:44:09.000Broad and locally, what do you do in terms of minimizing the amount of money that we spend on the military, minimizing the amount of invasion of privacy, the branches of the military, things like the NSA, which I guess you consider the military, some sort of security apparatus for us,
01:45:05.000They've abdicated their responsibility to declare war, for the American people to have a discussion and debate over how the military should proceed.
01:45:17.000They've abdicated that responsibility to the President of the United States, who's doing this on executive order along with the military.
01:45:24.000That's where Iraq got really weird, right?
01:46:07.000So how about the notion of really getting together with China, because this is in China's best interest, to get rid of Kim, unify the Koreas, get American troops out of South Korea.
01:46:22.000If Cuba, look, we didn't put up for a second that Russia was going to occupy or have missiles in Korea.
01:46:33.000In Cuba, do you think China likes the fact that we got 40,000 troops in Korea?
01:46:41.000Well, do we not make the world a lot more secure if we can't come to terms with China on how we can deal with what I will argue the biggest threat in the world right now?
01:46:52.000And China is an ally of North Korea, correct?
01:46:55.000They are, but they're an embarrassment from all that I can glean.
01:47:17.000But to turn that ship around, boy, you want to talk about turning a tough ship around, the North Korea ship, you're talking about an entire brainwashed country.
01:48:24.000Does that say maybe we're spending more than our fair share?
01:48:29.000Well, that's also we're the number one superpower in the world in order to maintain that position and be the benevolent dictators of the world.
01:48:38.000Well, to what end are we maintaining that position?
01:49:42.000And that's what their argument would be.
01:49:43.000Like, if they weren't doing this, that you would have these superpowers develop in these other countries, and it would become a gigantic issue, whether it's Iran, whether it's Russia, whether it's whatever it is.
01:50:31.000So at first I was in support of this treaty and naively, meaning the treaty that we signed with Iran that ended up releasing, however much money it was, $160 billion.
01:50:43.000And by Secretary Kerry's own admission, The question was, will there not be funds that will get directed at terrorism?
01:50:52.000And he said, yes, there will be funds that will be directed at terrorism.
01:50:56.000So how on earth could we have signed that agreement with Iran, given the fact that they are the biggest funder of terrorism in the world?
01:51:07.000What is their motivation to fund terrorism?
01:51:09.000Is their motivation to fund terrorism because they're concerned with the United States continuing to develop power in the Middle East?
01:51:20.000I don't want to discount anything that's being said by anyone, but from our standpoint, this is...
01:51:30.000We're contributing to what will be more terrorism, because terrorism will get funded from some of this money that got freed out.
01:51:40.000Now, when you say that, when you say funding terrorism, specifically, what do you mean?
01:51:44.000Well, at some point, these terrorist groups, and who's to say where the connection, using Brussels as an example, who's to say where those guys were getting their funds from,
01:53:04.000I can't state for you the ABCs of it, but unequivocal.
01:53:10.000Secretary of State Kerry said, Was asked the question, well, isn't some of this money, some of it, going to get directed at funding terrorism?
01:53:21.000And his response was, yeah, yes, some of it unquestionably is going to get directed toward terrorism.
01:53:28.000I don't know how we could have okayed that, given what has been acknowledged.
01:53:35.000What is the benefit of giving the money?
01:53:41.000I think that free trade at the end of the day is a really powerful tool.
01:53:47.000I don't have the answer to this, and I don't want to misstate anything, but this is a conversation that we're having.
01:53:55.000Could we have not opened up free trade with Iran and still kept their assets frozen?
01:54:01.000And by that, assets that now they enter into the world community, that they can sell their oil, and on an ongoing basis, we'll have free trade with Iran.
01:54:15.000They can spend the money as they see fit.
01:54:17.000But with regard to the money that's been frozen, if we believe that any of that's going to be redirected, Or directed at terrorism.
01:54:33.000Well, what has been the response by the administration?
01:54:35.000I mean, has this question been brought up and how have they answered it?
01:54:40.000Well, that was the – this was, gosh, maybe, I don't know, six months ago when Kerry was asked this.
01:54:47.000And, you know, it was very matter-of-factly, yes, some of it's going to get redirected to – you know, you have to – I think it's secondhand or firsthand.
01:54:57.000I mean I'm repeating what I thought I heard him say, which was, yeah, unquestionably some of this is going to go to terrorism.
01:55:16.000I wonder what, if anything, can be done to calm some of the areas down in the world, and how much of what's going on in the world is about controlling resources, and how much of that would change if we had less reliance on fossil fuels?
01:55:35.000Well, we're not getting any of our oil right now from the Middle East.
01:55:51.000Well, our refineries here in the United States, so there's a trade-off.
01:55:56.000We're exporting really clean oil, oil that doesn't need as much refining, and we're importing oil that is dirty, so it's cheaper.
01:56:07.000So there's more of a profit margin to bring in dirty oil, refine it.
01:56:13.000And make more money by exporting cleaner oil that refineries overseas can handle as opposed to the United States.
01:56:21.000So there is that going on, but for the most part we're energy sufficient at the moment because of fracking.
01:56:28.000But when we entered into Iraq, one of the more cynical concerns was that we were doing it because we were trying to control natural resources.
01:56:36.000Yes, and at that time, I think that that, I mean, did that not play a part in the equation?
01:56:42.000Certainly the administration denied that, but everybody, I think, saw that for what it was, too, that that was the case.
01:56:52.000So when you look at the world in terms of threats and imminent danger to the United States, what could be done to try to lessen that?
01:57:01.000Well, first and foremost, and this is where the Obama administration has concentrated on, and I couldn't tell you the status of how effective it is, but it is to cut off funding to terrorism.
01:57:34.000You know, I mean, you're talking about so many different groups.
01:57:38.000The Muslims get extremely offended when you use the term Islamic terrorism, which, looking at it from the outside, it does appear as though there is that constant.
01:57:53.000But Muslims would say that, look, that's not inherent in the Muslim religion, which I more than agree with.
01:58:04.000So this is the political correctness about saying terrorism as opposed to Islamic terrorism.
01:58:56.000At a minimum, you'd try and contain it to where it's at and not allow it to spread.
01:59:01.000And now I'm back to military policy, defense, having an impenetrable national defense.
01:59:10.000The notion of somehow a dirty bomb getting over here into the United States, I mean, that should be a real live concern.
01:59:18.000When I've talked to military operatives, though, they believe that a proactive attack or proactive action is much more likely to stop ISIS or any of these ISIL. Well, and that's been our tact to date.
01:59:36.000Without exception, that every one of those military interventions have had an unintended consequence of, at best, you know, we always deal with atrocity.
01:59:51.000We go in to deal with that atrocity, and at the end of the day, The new dictator, the new despot that we put into place to replace the bad despot at the end of the day is just as bad or in many cases worse.
02:00:03.000We cut off the head of the Hydra and lo and behold, there are more heads.
02:00:10.000I mean, have you ever tried to come up with some sort of a solution or look at some sort of a long-term plan that would somehow or another calm the world or at least allow the United States to make peace?
02:00:22.000One of the reasons that I'm seeking to become President of the United States is I think I do a really good job of presiding over all the intelligence that we do have regarding all of this, and I don't want to present myself as having the answers as much as,
02:00:41.000you know what, give me the intel, let me be part of this discussion, and But I'm going to enter into this discussion as a real skeptic on what we've done to this point and a real skeptic on what appears to be what we're going to do in the future regarding all this.
02:01:02.000And isn't there a more effective way of dealing with this?
02:01:05.000I wouldn't be seeking this job if I didn't think that I could make a difference in it.
02:01:19.000I'm not going to draw lines in the sand.
02:01:21.000If you draw any lines in the sand, you better be prepared to back up what you've said with action.
02:01:27.000And that's also been an issue with Obama.
02:01:30.000How much different do you think perspective changes once you get into office?
02:01:34.000Once you get into office and you sit down with military leaders and you sit down with someone who explains to you the actual landscape you're dealing with?
02:01:42.000I think that perspective can change a lot.
02:01:49.000How about being transparent with the American public?
02:01:53.000How about educating the American public to the intel that does exist?
02:01:59.000But wouldn't they possibly alert the enemy that we have knowledge of some things they may or may not know we have knowledge of and that would put people in danger?
02:02:06.000Well, you certainly wouldn't want to cross over that line in any way whatsoever.
02:02:09.000But if you got elected to office saying that we should not militarily intervene, that military interventions have an unintended consequence, and then the next day you militarily intervene somewhere, you better darn well get up in front of the American public and take the...
02:02:26.000Take the eggs and the tomatoes or worse.
02:02:31.000What was your take when Obama went on television and was talking about how we needed to invade Syria?
02:02:53.000But it was one of the first examples of the United States, like, sort of collectively, the will of the people, like, being openly expressed that the idea of entering Syria was outrageous.
02:03:07.000This gas attack, like, how is this any more horrible than a lot of shit that's going on all over the world all the time?
02:03:12.000What is it about Syria that all of a sudden we have to go and invade Syria, one more intervention in one more country, and the administration backed off?
02:03:37.000What was the motivation for the United States wanting to invade there in the first place?
02:03:41.000Well, wasn't it McCain going over there and beating his chest, along with Lindsey Graham, and let's go over there and support the good guys?
02:03:52.000Well, the good guys are the minority, and the good guys, at the end of the day, look, this is...
02:04:02.000Somehow we're going to determine the outcomes in other countries?
02:04:06.000I mean, that's just, it's preposterous that as individuals we can do that.
02:04:12.000But this seems so contrary to what Obama stood for before he got into office.
02:04:16.000So when he gets on television and talks about intervening, going over to Syria, about, you know, there's gas attacks and all this jazz.
02:04:23.000Like, where's that motivation coming from?
02:04:25.000Like, who's behind him, pushing him into this direction?
02:04:32.000He just sold us a song and danced before he got into office.
02:04:36.000You let off this kind of line of thought by saying, or this is where I thought you were headed, was can you get in and not be co-opted by the system?
02:04:47.000Based on my only experience, having been governor of New Mexico, yeah, meaning that good government was easy, it wasn't hard, that you weren't co-opted.
02:05:01.000There was plenty of co-option that tried to wield itself, but you know what?
02:05:08.000You're the President of the United States.
02:05:13.000Yes, you do have limited powers, but even with those limited powers, you're still the most powerful human being on Earth.
02:05:19.000Don't you think there's a pretty radical difference between being a governor of a state without a military and being the President of the United States dealing not just with the same sort of problems that you dealt with as a governor, but on a much larger scale, plus the problems of the world, plus the military,
02:05:35.000plus the weird stuff like the NSA and the CIA and the FBI? It has to be extremely more complex.
02:06:06.000But really, at the end of the day, doesn't it boil down to telling the truth and fessing up to mistakes and fixing things?
02:06:15.000But it seems to me that the wiring of the office is so complex and there's so much craziness going on that no one gets in office and does what they said they were going to do before they got in office.
02:06:28.000Because it almost seems insurmountable.
02:06:37.000Governors have done what they've pledged.
02:06:39.000Well, so would you rather elect someone who has had the experience of not having been co-opted as opposed to somebody who has been co-opted?
02:08:49.000And with all the other variables that you discussed, terms, term limitations that aren't in place, ideological blockades on the left and the right, supporting your constituents on the left and the right, special interest groups,
02:09:08.000I mean, there's this one area outside of Washington, D.C. that is just all lobbyists, these neighborhoods, and it's one of the wealthiest parts of the area.
02:09:17.000And it's just because people are making insane amounts of money manipulating the system.
02:09:21.000So, I am advocating eliminating income tax and corporate tax, and as a result of that...
02:10:17.000If we had zero corporate tax in this country, I believe tens of millions of jobs would get created.
02:10:24.000If we did not have corporate tax, if we did not have income tax, I believe that pink slips would get issued to 80% of Washington lobbyists because that's why they're there, to garner special tax favor.
02:10:39.000At the end of the day, it's all about So how does this consumption tax work, and how would you possibly implement it, and how would you possibly get anyone to agree to do this,
02:10:55.000to get rid of the IRS, to get rid of the...
02:10:59.000Yeah, actually, a couple hundred congressmen and women, maybe 160, have actually signed on to this proposal.
02:11:07.000So this proposal's been around for quite a while.
02:15:16.000That would be the accounting and the attorney fees that go along with complying with the IRS and the IRS employees themselves.
02:15:25.000And if you think about the pressure that the police unions or the guard unions, rather, prison guard unions put to make sure that marijuana remains illegal and drug laws remain in place, imagine the kind of pressure that lobbyists and the IRS and anyone else that might be affected by these decisions are going to put to try to stop this from happening.
02:15:43.000Well, this, though, would be a dialogue.
02:15:47.000If you had, in this case, Gary Johnson on stage in the presidential debates talking about something like this, wouldn't that maybe open people's eyes to the fact that, whoa, life could change dramatically?
02:16:05.000I think at the end of the day, you can argue that this would make life a lot better for everybody.
02:16:13.000Well, it certainly stimulated dialogue, but I wonder if you can get that point across in those little sound bites that they do in those debates.
02:16:31.000Why would you create a job anywhere in the world other than the United States given zero corporate taxes?
02:16:38.000So you think that, like, Apple would move their iPhone factors, they're paying people five cents an hour, they'd move them to the United States and have to pay a working wage because they don't have to pay corporate taxes?
02:17:02.000But now I'm back to, hey, I get elected president of the United States and I get legislation submitted to reduce corporate tax.
02:17:11.000Yeah, I'm going to sign on to that because I think it really is a hindrance to job creation when we have the highest corporate tax rate.
02:17:19.000But imagine, instead of having a debate over...
02:17:23.000Should we reduce the corporate tax rate to 28% or 29% and Republicans and Democrats both get their peacock feathers all up in arms about 29% or 28% or 27%?
02:21:28.000One of the reasons why Bernie Sanders has stood out is because he's the only guy that is not really accepting money from these giant corporations and he's fairly self-funded.
02:21:37.000One of the misconceptions about campaign finances is that...
02:21:42.000One of the misconceptions is that if you limit campaign contribution, that things are going to get better.
02:21:50.000You're going to eliminate the influence of big money, when the reality is by limiting campaign contribution, that's an incumbency protection act.
02:22:01.000So limiting campaign contribution is all about re-electing incumbents.
02:22:08.000Look, if you could get – if somebody would finance me to the tune of a billion dollars, they might change this country in a really big way.
02:22:17.000Should the billion dollars be anonymous?
02:23:57.000I mean, you're talking about one contributor versus...
02:24:00.000If you're looking at someone who's trying to contribute, though, to the United States, to someone running for the United States, and if they give you a billion dollars, one person who gives you a billion dollars, that guy's gonna want something.
02:24:13.000I really don't think it's that simple.
02:24:15.000Let's use a more realistic term, a billionaire that wants, you know, a multi-billionaire that wants to give $10 million.
02:25:50.000The notion of life and what do you do with your life.
02:25:54.000For me, my entire life, politics, I viewed it as a high calling.
02:26:01.000The notion of being in a position to make things better.
02:26:05.000Look, I'm the first person to also admit that if you had people lined up or if you asked, how many are going to line up here to say Gary Johnson was the scourge of the earth?
02:26:16.000Hey, you know, there'd be lines, blocks long out here.
02:26:51.000Well, why can't you extend that argument and say that if somebody would have given me, if one person would have given me that same $510,000, that that person wouldn't have changed the, okay, my contributor that gave me $150,000 for good government.
02:27:08.000Well, he had the ability to write, you know, he had the ability to give $510,000 and essentially get me elected.
02:27:25.000And the amount of influence that one rich person has is very problematic to regular people.
02:27:30.000And should be part of the equation on the analysis of is this having an impact and who is it and how much money have they given, which currently...
02:27:39.000These super PACs, 100% non-transparent.
02:27:43.000But do you think that transparency protects you from influence?
02:27:46.000If it is transparent and you have one of the Koch brothers giving all the money up, even if it's transparent, you know what the hell their motivation is.
02:27:54.000They want to continue to extract massive amounts of money, right?
02:27:57.000Well, if it's one person that's giving all the money, then there's that much more scrutiny that goes along with that person giving that much more money.
02:29:17.000I I'm as frugal a human being as you've ever met, but that doesn't mean that I'm cheap.
02:29:24.000It just means that I spend my money wisely.
02:29:26.000I got to serve as governor of New Mexico for two terms.
02:29:30.000I served as governor of New Mexico for two terms as a Republican in a state that's two-to-one Democrat.
02:29:37.000I got re-elected by a bigger margin the second time than the first time, made a name for myself as a real government skeptic, vetoing legislation.
02:29:45.000I may have vetoed more legislation than the other 49 governors in the country combined.
02:29:51.000Coupled with that, I'm socially tolerant, socially liberal.
02:29:56.000Look, you and I should be able to make decisions in our own lives that only affect our own lives as long as those decisions don't adversely affect others.
02:30:07.000And then there is a very real terrorist threat out there.
02:30:32.000I know what it is to share in the profits and what a magic formula that is, that when you share in the profits, amazingly, the profit pie grows significantly.
02:31:10.000You can give up or you can recognize that that's just part of life and wake up the next day with a smile on your face and continue to move forward and just do your best.
02:31:31.000I think mistakes have a way of so compounding themselves just because people don't acknowledge those mistakes.
02:31:38.000So given this pitch, all I want to do is just get in the polls that determines who is in the presidential debates.
02:31:50.000I think that if I'm in the presidential debates, I have an opportunity of actually winning because of this package that you've allowed me to present here today, Joe.
02:32:08.000I hope you at the very least make enough headway to get people paying attention to you and to get into the polls and just to listen to your message.
02:32:35.00025 million people because he's in the debate, so we better pick up a little bit on what he has to say, because they're going to see some sense in it also.