Shane Dorian is a surfer from New Zealand who has a fear of sharks. He talks about how he got bit by a shark and how he managed to get back on his board. He also talks about some of the scary things he has come across while surfing and talks about what it's like to be in a shark infested area of the ocean. We also talk about sharks in Hawaii and how scary it can be to surf in the middle of the night with a shark attack happening right in front of you. We hope you enjoy this episode and if you like it, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and we'll read it out on the next episode. Thanks for listening and Good Luck Out There! If you like the show, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and tell a friend about it! Timestamps: 1:00 - Jamie's first time having a false start 4:20 - The first time he's ever had a bad start 8:30 - What's the worst thing he s ever done with a surfboard 9:15 - How to deal with sharks 11:00 What's your biggest fear? 12:40 - How many sharks you ve ever seen in the ocean? 13:15 15:40 16:30 17:50 - How close have you come to a shark? 18:50 19:20 21:30 What are you scared of sharks? 22:00 What do you think you would do in the most scary thing you ve you ve seen in your life? 23:00 Is it scary? 25:00 How do you feel about them? 26:00 Do you think they re going to attack you? 27: What would you like to see them in your next wave 27,000 28:00 Are you scared? 29:30 Do you have a friend who s scared of them in the water? 30:00 Can they attack you in a big wave? 31:00 Would you be scared of a shark 32: What do they bite you in your backside? 35:30 Is your arm? 36:00 Should you swim to swim to the surface? 37:00 Does your arm out of your back? 39:30 Can they eat your arm in a wave ? 40:40 Is it possible?
00:01:40.000The crazy is, you know, it's funny about sharks is I was, I was, there's, you know, growing up, I always thought, you know, the only real sharks I had to worry about were, you know, great whites.
00:01:50.000And, you know, I was born and raised in Hawaii.
00:03:07.000She actually surfed some of the biggest waves all year last year.
00:03:11.000She got towed into a place called Jaws on Maui and was surfing 50-foot waves with one arm, you know, getting pounded by giant waves, and she paddles into some huge waves with one arm.
00:03:43.000Now when you get hit by a big wave like that and you get sucked under, how long are you under normally for?
00:03:52.000Uh, usually a pretty, pretty short amount of time, but it really varies.
00:03:56.000Um, you know, the, the, the worst thing about surfing really big waves and the, we've had a lot of people die surfing big waves and it is super dangerous.
00:04:04.000Um, the thing that kills people is getting held under for two waves.
00:04:08.000So if you fall on a wave, like if you take off on a wave and you fall and you're underwater for a super long time, and this has happened to me a Really far.
00:04:17.000And then you start, you know, the wave holds you under and is rolling you along the reef towards the shore.
00:04:23.000And you're underwater near the bottom or at the bottom.
00:04:25.000And then the wave just starts to dissipate and lose a little bit of power so you can finally start swimming up.
00:04:30.000And then the next wave is, meanwhile, it's on its way.
00:04:32.000And you're swimming up, swimming up, and the wave's coming at you.
00:04:35.000And you don't get a breath and the wave takes you straight back down.
00:05:18.000Ate shit down the face, got sucked over the falls, held under forever on the reef, and I was swimming towards the surface, and the next wave was like a 50-foot face, broke right on top of me, shoved me straight back down to the reef, and as I was swimming up to try and get a breath, I was doing those involuntary,
00:06:17.000Holding your breath for a minute while you're struggling, and also your adrenaline's kicking in, you're freaking out, and you're realizing that you've got to get some air soon.
00:06:56.000So panicking is the last thing that you want to do, but when you're really terrified, that's what happens to everybody.
00:07:02.000There's a big connection between jujitsu and surfing.
00:07:05.000A lot of people that I know that love jujitsu also love surfing, and they do it all the time.
00:07:10.000And that breath thing is something that comes into play in both situations, because if you're in a bad position, Like if someone's choking you or something like that, you can relax and stay calm and kind of barely get out of things.
00:07:24.000Whereas if you freak out and you start hyperventilating or panicking, you just have to tap.
00:07:32.000You run out of gas, you run out of air, and then the choke sinks in deeper.
00:07:35.000Some people are just really good at surfing and for some reason that like Hicks and Gracie is a famous example He's really good at yoga, which is also really big for controlling your breath and staying calm and Regulating your heart rate and then he's also,
00:07:52.000you know, obviously a master jiu-jitsu, but he loves surfing and I think in some way those things are kind of connected that you have to maintain some sort of control over your physical body and Yeah, for sure.
00:08:05.000And I think knowing how long you can hold your breath, especially under pressure, especially with a high heart rate, is the key.
00:09:10.000If you believe that you're going to be fine, your body tells you that you need to breathe.
00:09:17.000For that course, I think the first day I tried to hold my breath, And I'm in relatively good shape and I never ever practice holding my breath at all But you know, I've you know pretty good lung capacity because I I was training all the time, especially at that time The longest I could hold my breath the first day was like two minutes and 15 seconds or something like that And then by day the end of day three I was holding it for five minutes and 34 seconds.
00:13:45.000Just kill them all around where people are.
00:13:48.000Yeah, it's crazy that they figured out, like, you know, I mean, technology for every single thing, but they don't have some sort of, you know...
00:13:55.000I was thinking it would be so, you know, like with...
00:13:58.000In this day and age, like, we can do the craziest shit with technology.
00:14:01.000Like, why can't they put buoys around a surf break with, like, some weird magnetic thing that shoots down to the bottom of the ocean at that, you know, where it's like 30 feet deep, you know, like a half mile out from the break, and then everyone can swim there, everyone can surf there, whatever the hell it is.
00:15:54.000Probably 50 feet on the face, maybe more, maybe 60. So you're falling off the top of the wave, like it breaks, and you're coming over the lip?
00:16:34.000So if you successfully ride one of those waves, it's a lot of fun.
00:16:37.000I would imagine it gets super addictive when you're in that tube and you're slicing through it and you see the water going over the top of you.
00:17:19.000I can go down the beach no matter how shitty of a day I had, no matter how much stress, whatever.
00:17:24.000Like if my kid's getting a bad report card or I had to pay my taxes or whatever the hell it was, I can just put on my trunks, drive down to the beach, grab my board, and I'm good.
00:18:05.000There's something about rifle hunting that's not nearly as satisfying.
00:18:08.000Rifle hunting is all exciting, and it's way more effective, and you certainly have more success, and there's more range to it, but it's not nearly the same feeling.
00:18:19.000There's a switch that goes off that I think is a part of being a human being from the thousands of years of us shooting bows and arrows at things to stay alive.
00:18:29.000That reward is like triggered somehow or another deep inside whatever it is that makes you a person.
00:18:36.000I mean, it all comes down to the moment of truth.
00:18:40.000You work so hard for that opportunity, whatever it is, an elk or a deer or whatever the hell it is, and you bust your ass and you're on your hands and knees in the hot sun.
00:18:48.000You know, you're over there freezing your ass off in the dark waiting for it to get light and you pack all your shit from the trailhead for miles and all this hard work and all the thousands of arrows you shoot at your target and all of a sudden it comes down to this millisecond where the elk stops in front of you.
00:19:02.000And you're sitting there full draw and it's like the moment of the truth, you know, and it's It's super technical and really difficult, and a lot of people suck at it, and that's why it's so rad.
00:19:11.000Yeah, it's very technical, and that is something that I just never took into account when I saw people shooting bows and arrows.
00:19:17.000I'm like, oh, your left arm straight, your right arm pulls back, you make sure you aim, you let it go, and it seems kind of like a rifle.
00:19:25.000You center the reticle, you squeeze the trigger, make sure you don't jerk it, and you're good.
00:19:30.000There's so much more involved in the anchoring of where the string hits the corner of your mouth, where your hand rests below your jaw, making sure that your elbow's not too low, not too high, your back muscles are pulling.
00:19:45.000And remembering all that stuff in the moment.
00:20:37.000That animal was just living like they've been living for hundreds of thousands of years, just eating grasses and staying away from predators.
00:20:45.000You snuck up on it and you place an arrow right in its vitals perfectly and cut it up and brought it home and now you're eating it.
00:20:52.000And there's this insane connection to your food when you do something like that.
00:21:09.000There's just something so much more satisfying about eating food that you grew or killed or whatever it was, you know?
00:21:15.000I mean, it's so cool when someone has an awesome garden at their house that they busted their ass and they know exactly where that food came from.
00:21:26.000It's even more so when you spend all that time in the mountains and you bring it home and you care for that meat, make sure it's not dirty, make sure it's not spoiled, make sure it's taken care of perfectly.
00:21:36.000You go in my freezer and I'm actually kind of a slob in a lot of different areas of my life.
00:21:43.000I don't make my bed a lot of times or whatever it is.
00:21:46.000Now, when it comes to the meat, it's perfect.
00:21:58.000Well, there's a deep respect for that animal that I don't think people who just buy their meat at a grocery store, I don't think they could ever understand it.
00:22:06.000I think you can kind of intellectualize it and you can kind of imagine what it's like, but I don't think you could ever really understand it.
00:22:12.000Well, and I can relate to that because I wasn't always a hunter.
00:22:22.000I started when I was 30 and I'm 43. So what was it that got you going?
00:22:27.000I moved from the beach where I lived my whole life up to the mountains and I bought a piece of property and everything I planted got dug up by wild pigs.
00:22:37.000So there's wild boars all over the property and my wife started getting pissed and And I didn't know what to do.
00:22:43.000I wanted to plant fruit trees and all this stuff and everything was getting knocked over and smashed by all the pigs.
00:22:47.000And so my buddy was like, dude, shoot him with a gun and shoot a couple and they'll beat it.
00:22:52.000And so he gave me this shotgun or whatever.
00:22:55.000I shot him with a shotgun and immediately gave it back to him.
00:24:45.000So there was really no animals in Hawaii.
00:24:49.000Every single thing there is introduced except for bugs and some birds.
00:24:54.000The deer, the pigs, the goats, the sheep, everything was all introduced.
00:24:58.000You go out in the mountains and there's lots and lots of different animals out there and they're all introduced and they're all considered pests.
00:25:06.000Wow, so it's a lot like New Zealand in that sort of a way.
00:26:01.000They're these hairy goats with this big giant sable fur thing and really small horns and they live in like these glaciers and these like vertical cliffs.
00:26:10.000Maybe like a thousand foot cliff at the top of like a five thousand foot mountain of like a granite cliff, like a little step ledge in it that's like six inches wide and that's where the tar would be standing, one tar.
00:26:38.000Yeah, I was with Remy Warren and we spotted one and it's not like, you know, like where I come from, like you go hunt axis deer, you could see a thousand deer.
00:26:57.000So I'm used to going out and seeing like tons of pigs and goats and deer and stuff like that.
00:27:01.000I went to New Zealand and hunted these tar and I'm standing there with Remy at the bottom of this valley and we're camping in the backcountry.
00:29:11.000You're just keeping them at your rate.
00:29:14.000It's like you're slowing them down all the time.
00:29:18.000It does pay to train, especially in the mountains like that.
00:29:22.000If you're going to go on a big hunt, it really helps to train a lot.
00:29:25.000And now these animals, how the fuck...
00:29:27.000I've seen goats on the side of cliffs where they're walking along a vertical face and they're standing on these little two-inch outcroppings.
00:29:42.000Like, what kind of evolutionary advantage to, like, walking along the side of a cliff face like that has led them to be this bizarre beast?
00:29:52.000Like, most people don't think about them.
00:30:17.000And these things are somehow or another finding footholds where their whole body, like the side of their body, is slammed up against the side of the mountain, and they're making it up this cliff.
00:30:29.000And they're not forced to be on that cliff.
00:30:32.000When I was hunting those goats in New Zealand, those tar, just below where they were, there was these rolling hills, really steep still, but it was rolling hills with grass.
00:30:43.000They choose to be on the rocks because they actually eat some weird stuff that grows...
00:31:28.000It's really hard to appreciate how hardcore that kind of hunting is unless you do it.
00:31:36.000I'm going to piss people off when I say this, but 98% of the hunting that happens in America is like, park your truck, walk to your tree stand, get in the tree stand, play...
00:31:49.000We play words with friends until the deer comes underneath the tree stand, get the full draw, and, you know, you got your tag filled, which is great.
00:31:59.000And I like tree stands and all that stuff.
00:32:01.000But that kind of hunting is just like, it's weird how hunting is clumped in to like, oh, you're a hunter.
00:32:07.000And that's all people sort of need to know.
00:32:09.000You know, there's like so many different kinds of hunting and so many different ways to do it, different weapons, different approaches, different, you know, it's like crazy.
00:32:15.000Like some people are shooting animals at, you know, 1500 yards with high-powered rifles.
00:32:24.000And for us, it's like we want to be as close as possible.
00:32:27.000That long-range stuff is very strange because there's a lot of ethical questions that come up with that.
00:32:34.000Because any movement whatsoever at 1,500 yards, I mean, you have to be like a real fucking expert marksman to pull something like that off.
00:32:43.000So there's a lot of dickwagon going on when you're killing something at like 700, 800, 1,000 yards.
00:33:24.000And it's really interesting because Remy, you know, Remy's a really good athlete and he's also just a really smart guy.
00:33:30.000And what he does is he tries to mimic all of the behavior of predatory animals, like wolves, and he'll do, like, him and a bunch of his friends were doing some sort of, like, a chase the same way that a wolf would chase down an elk.
00:33:45.000And one of the things that he did was he put on a ghillie suit and he crawled up to these antelope and just slowly creeped his way up to these antelope.
00:33:54.000And as long as you're patient and you move slow, like, he got within, like, seven feet of fucking antelope.
00:34:51.000Like, there's this big-ass fucking 300-pound bear, and it's not making a single sound as it's walking, because they have soft pads, and they're predators.
00:35:45.000I didn't know what the hell was going on.
00:35:47.000And so we drop off our stuff and we've got about an hour to hunt and then we're going to come back and set up our little camp there at like a creek.
00:35:56.000I'm like, I'm going to set up my tent and stuff.
00:35:58.000And I get to one side of the creek and my friend's across the creek setting up his tent and getting our food out, like salami and whatever else kind of food we had.
00:36:08.000And I was just about to like yell out to him like, hey, did you see anything?
00:36:11.000I was like maybe 60 yards away from him.
00:36:13.000And I looked to my left and there's a bear, a big bear, big black bear, standing on his hind legs.
00:36:19.000It looked like one of those targets, you know, those big old targets you shoot.
00:37:12.000I read this story on a bow hunting magazine, and it was a story about this guy and his son, and they were hunting elk.
00:37:18.000I'm not sure which state, but the son was in the front, and he was set up, and the dad was in the back, probably 60 yards back, and the dad was cow calling, and there was a bull there, and he was starting to come into the call.
00:37:31.000And so the kid was standing there waiting for his shot, and the dad was sitting there cow calling behind him.
00:37:36.000And all of a sudden, the elk runs off, and they thought the wind had waffled on them or something.
00:37:42.000And right behind the elk, like 50 yards past the elk, was a giant grizzly bear standing straight up, staring at him.
00:38:03.000So the dad grabbed his bow, got an arrow on, Somehow had the clarity to get to full draw.
00:38:10.000As the kid passed his dad, the dad made a perfect shot on the bear.
00:38:15.000The bear right then catches up to the kid, dives on the kid, and starts mauling him and ends up dying on the kid.
00:38:22.000And there was a picture in the article, it was incredible, there's a picture in the magazine of the kid and he's covered, covered head to toe in blood.
00:38:30.000The bear died on him, like a heart shot, blood all over him.
00:40:16.000People are so strange, our detachment from wildlife, that when you're actually around them, even just around an elk, like, when you're around an elk and elk are calling and they're making those crazy sounds, you're like, what the fuck?
00:40:55.000And you gotta breed them all, you know?
00:40:57.000I was in California at Tahone Ranch last year, and these two huge elk were smashing horns.
00:41:03.000They were both like 360-class elk, which is like, for people listening, just enormous antlers, six points on each side, thousand-pound animals just running at each other.
00:41:15.000Head-butting each other and stabbing each other.
00:41:17.000And while we were there, they found one enormous bull that had been killed by another bull.
00:41:23.000Been stabbed in the side and punctured his lungs and was just laying there.
00:43:28.000Please, if they decide 50 yards to make a mad dash you, he's got a boner and this chick got scared off and he decides it's you that scared off and just go spear you.
00:43:38.000Do you see the one where there's a guy sitting on the side of the road as a photographer?
00:43:41.000There's a real recent one, and they actually wind up euthanizing the elk, because this elk fucked with this dude for like, the video's like 10 minutes long.
00:43:51.000The elk's just like headbutting this guy, and the guy's sitting there, trying to cover his head as a spike, a really young bull.
00:43:58.000And this photographer's just hanging there, and this bull starts headbutting him.
00:44:04.000And the guys just decided to just play passive.
00:46:58.000First of all, It's really like one of the best animals, like from a conservation standpoint, it's one of the best animals to kill because they don't have any predators.
00:47:06.000And so if you don't kill them, well, the only thing that kills bears is other bears.
00:47:11.000So where we hunt in Alberta, there's a giant population.
00:47:16.000I mean, it's not uncommon to see 20, 30 bears in a day.
00:47:19.000It's really, really overflowing with bears.
00:47:24.000Well, it decimates not just the moose population, the deer population, but the crazy thing is, it's bad for the bear population for there to be this many bears, because the boars eat cubs.
00:47:42.000There was an article recently that I posted today on Twitter that they're finding that grizzlies are going towards people when they have cubs.
00:49:03.000I forget which one, but I heard one is a little bit better than the other.
00:49:05.000Fall is supposed to be the best, because the fall bears are eating berries.
00:49:08.000I've only killed spring bears, but spring bears taste really good.
00:49:12.000Like I was saying, from an ecological standpoint or from a conservation standpoint, it's probably one of the most important animals to kill, other than, say, white-tailed deer, because there's 2 million or so, what was the number?
00:49:24.000Like 1.5 million car accidents in the United States alone.
00:49:27.000200 people die in the United States every year from hitting deer with their cars.
00:49:31.000That's the thing is people are so quick to point the finger like, I can't believe you'd kill a bear.
00:49:35.000You can't believe it, but they just can't wrap their head around the fact that they need to be, those numbers get so out of control.
00:52:04.000Because he went back into the area when you're not supposed to be there, when the animals are in hibernation, except for the really desperate ones.
00:52:40.000I think it's a comedy, and I want to talk to Werner Herzog because he's supposed to...
00:52:45.000Apparently we're in contact with his people and we're trying to work something out because he's got something else that he's promoting, but there's no other documentaries that he does that are funny like that.
00:55:58.000Nature's just decided, like, there's just too much shit in this ocean, and so we're going to just develop this insane thing that doesn't even get to sleep.
00:56:24.000I was on a plane when that happened, and I was landing in Honolulu, and I turned my phone on, and I had all these crazy messages from all my friends, because it's a really small world in the surf world.
00:56:37.000That was no accident that this giant great white shark was within a couple feet of him.
00:57:24.000That feeling when he got up on that raft.
00:57:26.000And when that was going down, it was a full-on ordeal of like, you know, it didn't happen like real quick and he just jumped on.
00:57:32.000That was like a lot of seconds right there happening.
00:57:35.000His board got taken away from him and he had to swim and splashing, splashing water, you know, panicking.
00:57:40.000And then the other guy, Julian Wilson, in his heat, was 100 feet away and was paddling full speed towards him to try and help.
00:57:49.000That's like when you show your true colors, you know?
00:57:52.000That's when you know that shit's going down, is when you see a friend of yours getting what he thought was attacked by a great white.
00:57:59.000It's probably just a switch that goes off in your head.
00:58:03.000It's probably just pure lizard thinking.
00:58:06.000The survival feeling, when that thing hit his board and you're in full-on panic mode, you realize you have got to get the fuck away from this thing.
00:59:16.000I can't even imagine what that, you know, just looking there in the thing, like looking at the eyeball, it would have been right there like staring at him, you know.
00:59:23.000And he said he was just hitting the thing as hard as he possibly could.
01:05:11.000That's a really healthy system of how to increase populations, how to take care of habitat, how to hire more park rangers, how to buy more land and make bigger reservations and bigger conservation areas.
01:05:26.000I don't think people know that, though.
01:06:27.000If they stopped hunting, if they made hunting illegal, and they cut off that supply of revenue, there's a lot of animals that would be fucked.
01:06:35.000People don't like it because it's one of those weird kind of gray area things where it just doesn't make you feel comfortable thinking that the money that has come...
01:06:44.000First of all, the only reason why there's elk in all the habitats that they're at right now is because hunters introduced them to those areas.
01:06:51.000They were decimated by the turn of the 19th century or the 20th century.
01:06:56.000So in the early 1900s, there was very few elk left in this country.
01:07:00.000So the Rocky Mountain Elk Federation spent considerable amounts of money, resource, man hours, moving animals into these areas like Kentucky.
01:07:09.000Like Kentucky has like a huge elk population now.
01:07:13.000There was nothing there just 30, 40 years ago.
01:07:17.000So they've figured out a way to not just maintain populations so hunters can kill them, but they've also reintroduced them to areas where they didn't exist before.
01:07:27.000Well, increased populations by a hundred times in a lot of states.
01:07:40.000I understand it for people that are animal rights lovers, but I just wish they had a more balanced perspective and they understood what all the pieces that are in place are.
01:07:51.000It's an uncomfortable thing for a lot of people to think that the people who want to hunt and kill and eat these animals are the ones that love them the most.
01:08:08.000Yeah, they're just being angry and lashing out, you know, with their phone.
01:08:12.000But they're not doing anything to save the animals.
01:08:14.000Those people aren't on the front lines in Africa trying to save the lions or the elephants or trying to go against poachers and do something about it.
01:08:23.000All those people are just chit-chatting, you know?
01:08:26.000Well, there's not enough money I mean, if they really wanted to do the kind of work that the hunters are doing, they'd have to have some stream of revenue.
01:08:34.000And the stream of revenue that is coming from hunting is all coming from tags.
01:08:38.000It's all coming from the sale of hunting gear and products.
01:08:41.000And there's just no way they can match that.
01:10:12.000I mean, if you're really fucking good, you could shoot something within 90 yards, but for the most part, you're trying to get somewhere within 30, 40 yards.
01:10:23.000Sportsmen contribute nearly $8 million every day, adding to more than $2.9 billion every year for conservation.
01:10:31.000Hunters and target shooters have paid $7.1 billion in excise taxes since the inception of the Pittman-Robertson Act in 1937. That's incredible.
01:10:43.000Everybody in America knows about Cecil the Lion.
01:10:54.000It says, I get the $8 million every day, contributing more than $2.9 billion every year for conservation, but this is what I don't understand.
01:11:01.000It says hunters and target shooters have paid $7.1 billion in excise taxes.
01:11:24.000Again, it's the people that live in the cities that are disconnected, and I was one of them.
01:11:29.000I mean, if you talked to me, if you got a hold of me, you know, 20 years ago, when I never even considered hunting, and you asked me about, like, hunting, I'd be like, assholes shooting an animal.
01:12:17.000There's a lot of people that think of hunters like the characters in a movie, like an Elmer Fudd, like some asshole who hates animals.
01:12:25.000But when you listen to really good hunting podcasts, like there's this guy Jay Scott, he's got a really good hunting podcast, and Cody Rich has the Rich Outdoors, and Steve Rinella has the Meat Eater podcast.
01:12:40.000You're listening to really intelligent, really smart, well-educated people that understand a lot about conservation, the environment, the animals they're pursuing.
01:12:49.000And when they're talking about tactics and strategies and details and all the different areas that you're hunting, all the different places where you're putting in for tags, you realize this is a complex...
01:13:01.000System that they're trying to navigate in order to be successful.
01:13:04.000It's fucking very very difficult and it's primal as fuck.
01:13:09.000The whole thing is like it's a wild experience and like literally wild and many different levels.
01:13:16.000Yeah, and just that yeah, I just I don't know I can't get enough of it.
01:13:21.000I swear like I I I feel like I I like I measure my success Not so much now because my kids are a family guy and that's basically all I care about is my kids these days.
01:13:34.000But I swear, it's like I measure my success by how many days a year I spend in camouflage.
01:13:40.000That's how I know I had a super good year, is if I went hunting a lot.
01:14:31.000So it's just being a part of the natural world.
01:14:34.000The surfing thing, even though you're on a board that's made out of composite materials and you've got wax on it and all this jazz and it's all created by a factory.
01:14:44.000But there's something about you're introducing your life or your being into the natural world of the ocean.
01:15:02.000You know, it has living things in it, but there's oxygen in the water, and that's how these plants grow, and when there's dead spots, that's why these fish die.
01:15:11.000It's not just like an ecosystem, it's almost like a giant living thing.
01:15:16.000And you're swimming around in that thing, sort of absorbing its life force.
01:15:24.000I swear, surfing a lot, being in the sun, being in the ocean a lot, and not sitting there frying yourself or anything like that, but just spending a life in the ocean and in the sun is just good for you.
01:15:35.000I know people who are in their 50s and 60s and are healthy.
01:15:46.000I think spending time in the outdoors, whether you're in the mountains with your boat or whether you're in the ocean doing whatever you're doing is just good.
01:15:53.000Well, it's certainly good to be active.
01:15:55.000It's also absorbing vitamin D3 or creating vitamin D3 through the sun.
01:16:06.000No, all those things are, I mean, you're living a very natural life in a lot of ways in that way, you know?
01:16:12.000And, again, there's also the satisfaction element.
01:16:15.000Just like the people who grow a garden can kind of, and I have a garden, I get it, is there's a connection.
01:16:20.000Like, if I grow some tomatoes and some kale and I put together a salad and I'm eating that salad, I'm like, I know, not only do I know where this came from, I was there.
01:16:34.000There's something deeply satisfying about making your own food that you grow or that you go and get as opposed to going to a supermarket.
01:16:43.000Well, and it takes a lot more effort, too.
01:16:44.000So you just have that elk steak that you eat.
01:16:50.000If you do a side-by-side comparison with someone who didn't hunt, they may not feel the same way.
01:16:57.000But because you packed it out, you put all the time in on the target, you did all the hunting, you looked forward to it for six months, that hunt, and that's the best tasting steak you're ever going to have.
01:17:08.000Because you have the pride of knowing that you did it all yourself.
01:17:11.000Yeah, it's certainly a very very different feeling now living in Hawaii and Being a white guy What is that like because people say weird things about I've never found Hawaiians to be racist or rude or weird But I've heard crazy shit and I've always wondered like if that crazy shit is from like rude Americans that come over there and like are disrespectful or act like they own the place or well There's a little bit of both.
01:17:41.000There's, you know, I mean, I grew up, I mean, I was born and raised in Hawaii, so I saw a lot of this, you know, like in high school and, you know, like in elementary school, like if you're a white, like everybody wanted to be a Hawaiian when they were young, right?
01:17:52.000Like everybody in my school, like if you're a white, you kind of wish you weren't.
01:18:09.000So there was a thing, it was called Kill Haole Day, and it was always the end of the year, and it was like, I don't even know if they actually practiced it when I was a kid, but it was still, it was a thing.
01:18:20.000And it was a thing where, like, Hawaiians would be like...
01:18:35.000And the other thing is there's a huge difference between a white dude who was born in Hawaii and a white guy who moved to Hawaii.
01:18:43.000So if you're from Hawaii, Born and raised in Hawaii is totally different than if you're a dude from Orange County that moved to Hawaii when you're 18 and then next to you you're trying to talk like the Hawaiians and stuff.
01:19:12.000So it's like a cultural appropriation thing.
01:19:15.000Yeah, it's just like, I don't know how to explain it, but it gets a little complicated.
01:19:20.000But if you show people respect, you know, if you're chill, if you paddle out in the water at a localized break and you're mellow, you don't have a bunch of ding-dongs with you, if you paddle out by yourself and you show respect and you're mellow, then everyone gives you respect.
01:19:46.000If you get off the plane at my house, and you get a convertible Mustang rent-a-car, and someone's going 45 and a 55 in a lifted truck, you don't pass them.
01:21:27.000If you did something bad, you're executed and all kinds of crazy shit like back in the day.
01:21:31.000But, you know, when the white dude showed up, when Captain Cook showed up and the missionary showed up in their boats and they were trading a musket for like a hundred thousand acre ranch, you know, it was like, shit got crazy in Hawaii.
01:21:49.000I mean, there's a lot of Hawaiians that are getting pushed out.
01:21:50.000You know, all these people live in different places on the mainland and make a bunch of money, and then they retire in Hawaii because who wouldn't, right?
01:23:10.000I just think it's just a difficult situation.
01:23:14.000It's like a lot of places in America, really, if you think about it.
01:23:18.000It's not that unusual, the situation in Hawaii.
01:23:22.000It just seems odd because there's so many of these multi-million dollar vacation estates that are by the beach and that's like some crazy fuck you CEO type money that you have to have to have one of these things.
01:23:37.000These people, they come to this place and they occupy this spot, but there's a bunch of people that have been here and their ancestors have been here for a thousand plus years and this is kind of their area.
01:24:01.000People spend $50 million on their house.
01:24:04.000There's every single one of those guys in the Fortune 500, all the CEOs, all the guys from every big, giant tech company, they all have houses where I live.
01:24:11.000They show up one week a year in their jet.
01:24:57.000It's just you realize, like, this place is the exact opposite of the Big Island.
01:25:03.000I mean, this place is some strange sort of magnet for weirdos, and everybody's just getting sucked into this giant population center, and you try to get anywhere, even in the middle of the day.
01:25:16.000I mean, you were here at noon, so you're driving around at 11 a.m.
01:25:21.000You'd feel 11 a.m., everybody's at work, no big deal.
01:27:25.000People judge me on who I am as a person and what I do and how I, I don't know, I feel just like it's a little bit more, It's just a little bit more real, I guess, and just, you know, more down to earth where I live.
01:27:38.000But I also don't live in like the, you know, I live in kind of a small town.
01:27:41.000So it's like coffee farms and ranches and it's pretty chill where I live, you know.
01:27:47.000Yeah, that's the weirdest thing about the Big Island.
01:28:10.000I don't know, I should look it up, but the Big Island of Hawaii, there's like all these like climate zones, and they always say that, I forget the exact numbers, but it's like out of like these certain sort of climate zones throughout the world, like the Big Island has like 11 of the 13 or something like that.
01:28:28.000So, like, if you get in your car and drive for, like, two hours, you'll go through, like, if you just, like, happen to, like, go to sleep and wake up, like, 15 minutes later, everything looks different.
01:28:37.000Go to sleep, wake up 15 minutes later, everything looks different again.
01:28:40.000It's, like, it changes so much, you know?
01:29:09.000I try to go every year to the observatory, Keck Observatory, when there's no moon, so you can see the stars, just to freak myself out.
01:29:18.000Because I went once, many years ago, and it just changed my world.
01:29:23.000The one experience, it was like literally being on a spaceship.
01:29:26.000It changed the way I looked at the world.
01:29:29.000For people who don't know, there's all these light diffusers, these diffused light lamps all around the Big Island so that it doesn't give any light pollution to the Keck Observatory, which is one of the biggest telescopes in the continental United States.
01:29:43.000It's not the continental United States, right?
01:29:45.000In the U.S. In the world, I think, even, the Keck Observatory.
01:29:48.000Yeah, there's crazy clarity and no light pollution there.
01:30:23.000I mean, the land where those telescopes are built, it's considered sacred land by a lot of, I mean, basically every single Hawaiian group that there is.
01:30:34.000But there's a designated area within that sacred land that is designated for astronomy and all that stuff.
01:30:43.000But they have all these giant telescopes that are owned by different countries.
01:30:49.000China has theirs and the US has theirs.
01:30:53.000All these big countries span all these billions of dollars to make their telescopes, and there are some of them that are completely obsolete, and they're not even being used anymore.
01:31:01.000So instead of taking those four or five down that they're not even using anymore and building a new big one, they just wanted to build a whole other big one.
01:31:08.000So there was a lot, people were up in arms about it and it was going to be the largest building on the big island as well.
01:31:13.000So people were just up in arms about it and there was all kinds of, you know, people got super activated and really started protesting the whole thing and blocking the road and people were getting arrested and all my friends were involved and everybody was against it and protesting.
01:32:44.000But it seems like if they have telescopes they're not using anymore, maybe it's just a financial issue where it costs a lot of money to break them down and put a new one in the place and it's not as financially efficient as starting a new one.
01:32:58.000Well, it's always one of those things where it's like, in Hawaii, everything's sacred unless you have enough money.
01:34:54.000When I, yeah, when I, I don't speak Pigeon, but when I'm having beers with, with, with, with the, you know, when I'm at home and I'm a couple beers deep, then yeah, it starts like slipping out every now and then, but yeah.
01:35:04.000Oh, so it's something that you did when you were younger?
01:41:18.000Well, I would think that, like, activities, like for you surfing, obviously you would meet other surfers, bow hunting, you'd meet other bow hunters, you'd find common ground, you'd make some friends if you had to move to a place like that.
01:41:31.000But if you don't have like a real obvious thing that you like to do, that other people like to do as well, I would say that would become a real issue.
01:41:45.000You don't want to, like, move somewhere or live some life where you don't really know what's going on or don't know why you're doing what you're doing.
01:41:51.000For me, it would be super hard to not be around comedians.
01:42:06.000You know, I'm used to being around the comedy store and places like that.
01:42:09.000And just the sharpness and the quickness and the pace that people's brains work in comedy or even just in L.A., just the pace of how quick people are thinking and talking and acting and being and living.
01:42:23.000And then you go to a place like Hawaii, it takes most people like three or four or five days or a week to just chill the hell out and relax a little bit.
01:45:41.000It's like we're so used to being entertained all the time.
01:45:45.000And that's something that people are addicted to.
01:45:47.000Whether it's your phone or even if me and you went hunting.
01:45:50.000A lot of time, I'd be your entertainment, or you'd be my entertainment.
01:45:54.000But when no one's entertaining you, and you're by yourself, and you're just out there, and you're making your own fires, and you're waking up, and you're doing your own hunt, and you're not relying on a guide or a friend, or, okay, I'm gonna hunt over there, you hunt over here, and you're just doing your own thing.
01:46:08.000And even if you're not even hunting, just being silent, you're not talking to yourself, so you're not talking to anybody.
01:46:13.000You're not talking on your phone, you're not communicating with anyone.
01:46:16.000And after four or five days, I did this at home.
01:46:19.000I did a hunt where I left my house, had my wife drop me off, and I did this long walk over this giant mountain.
01:48:13.000But he was telling me that when he goes off to these trips, because he does most of his hunt solo, and that's really where he detaches and centers himself, but he says he comes back after being out there for eight or nine days,
01:48:28.000and he He hasn't said a word in eight or nine days and he says it just feels weird to talk to people.
01:48:40.000It puts a lot of shit in perspective about what you're planning on doing in the next 10 years or what's happening in your life or whatever it is.
01:48:48.000Not to get deep in here, but it's a trip, man.
01:50:01.000So it was a lot of hiking, a lot of walking, and...
01:50:04.000Just being by yourself and then the snow component for somebody from Hawaii.
01:50:08.000It's like it was snowing every day and I was cooking in my tent and eating and snowing and elk were coming in at night and screaming their guts out.
01:50:16.000Then there was like a crazy lightning storm and wind storm.
01:50:19.000I had to pack up my tent in the middle of the night.
01:50:58.000I need to have a purpose when I'm hiking, right?
01:51:00.000So I'm basically like a hiker with a bow these days, and that's what gets me out to these kind of places and had some of the best experiences of my life just because I found bow hunting.
01:51:11.000Well, those woods and where you're going, these places where you're not going to run into any other people, there's a feeling that you get from those environments.
01:51:21.000It's almost like a loneliness in a way.
01:51:40.000Grizzlies keep fucking eating, elk keep having sex, and screaming their heads off, and birds keep flying, and that's just how we've always done it, dude.
01:53:22.000And that's another perspective enhancer, to realize, like, you're so goddamn lucky you have a roof overhead, and that, you know, you can listen to the radio in your car, and that you can get around, and it's easy, and you can talk to people on your phone.
01:53:37.000When you're out in just the woods, woods, no cell phone service, no nothing, there's nothing.
01:53:59.000Until you've been head to toe soaking wet in your boots and your socks and your pants and your rain gear and everything that's supposed to keep you warm and safe from the elements is soaked to the bone.
01:54:33.000Which is really unusual and hard for people to understand if you've never worn wool.
01:54:38.000Well, that's when the right gear, you know, there's a lot of hunts that you don't really need the right gear for some hunting.
01:54:46.000But in that backcountry stuff or in real steep mountains or stuff where you have to walk far, if your shoes are wet and your socks are wet, you're going to get the gnarliest blisters and you won't be able to walk anywhere.
01:54:55.000That's why I'm really fascinated by companies like Kuyu that spend all this time developing the most technical gear, like the lightest weight, the best at absorbing wind for their tents.
01:55:08.000And they go through great lengths to engineer their products to make sure that it's just...
01:55:14.000I mean, it's a giant company that just makes ultralight gear for hunting.
01:55:18.000It's kind of crazy that there's a company like that.
01:55:21.000Yeah, but you can see why when you go in the backcountry hunt and you don't have the right gear, that's the last kind of hunting you're going to do like that.
01:56:17.000It's funny because I told Cameron that.
01:56:20.000I told him that I got his book and it fully inspired me.
01:56:25.000I ordered the ultralight tent, the right one.
01:56:28.000I did all this research on which one to get, which one was lightest, which one was the driest, which one was the best to cook in, which one had the biggest vestibule.
01:56:36.000I ordered the right stove and all the right ultralight Plates and forks and camp cups and sleeping bags and the little towel that packs up tiny and the pillow that packs up tiny and the right backpack and all that stuff.
01:56:53.000It's funny because when you're shaving ounces it really adds up.
01:56:59.000It's like a difference between an 80 pound pack and a 40 pound pack if you get the right gear.
01:58:06.000I can carry a fucking toothbrush handle.
01:58:08.000It's funny though because it all adds up.
01:58:10.000You know, you don't think you need that much stuff to go on a backcountry hunt, but a lot of times you put every single thing you're going to put in that pack and it's a lot of stuff.
01:58:43.000I bring nuts, like macadamia nuts and almonds and pecans and cheese and jerky and stuff like that.
01:58:53.000Especially if there's water, that's a game changer.
01:58:55.000If there's water where you're going to be or even anywhere near where you're going to be, they'll bring a stove every time with oatmeal and freeze-dried meals like mountain house meals.
02:00:47.000And then when I leave hunting, when I leave the mountains, like, say I go to Colorado and I hunt for a week, and I'm like...
02:00:54.000I lose 10 pounds and get all super skinny and like mountain man style.
02:00:58.000I get out of there and I just want like a bacon double cheeseburger or like a big giant, not like the kind of the fast food place, but like a big, like a third pound burger with a ton of bacon on it with like blue cheese and avocados on it.
02:01:35.000I mean you would get really good at preparing for these things.
02:01:38.000So you must have like undergone like a transformation where you started off sort of kind of like trying to figure it out and then as you got better and better and better you got more and more streamlined in your approach.
02:01:51.000Do you feel like you have it down to like a science now if you want to do something like that?
02:01:55.000With what, the actual backcountry hunt or the actual hunting itself?
02:01:58.000Well, all the stuff, your packing, your plan.
02:02:07.000Well, what people do, if you don't know, they...
02:02:11.000Find an area, like say if you draw a tag for an area, you get an overhead, this is not for you, for people listening, obviously, but you get an overhead, Google Earth will give you, it'll show you where the peaks and valleys are, and it's amazing.
02:02:24.000It shows you the canyons, it shows you water sources, and you see from a satellite image, so you can literally see elk, like sometimes, on Google Earth, which is incredible.
02:02:41.000You can get to your water source way quicker and it's really efficient.
02:02:44.000But then you need to bring batteries for your phone or some solar panel.
02:02:50.000But I haven't really found a super efficient solar panel that'll charge up your phone and your stuff that fast.
02:02:54.000Yeah, especially when you're in the woods.
02:02:56.000You're not getting a lot of sunlight there.
02:02:57.000It always seems like it doesn't work as good as you hope, but...
02:03:00.000Yeah, they're getting better at those things.
02:03:02.000They're getting, I mean, if you're in Arizona, you know, and you're in the, like, mule deer hunting in the desert, you got a great shot at charging up your shot.
02:03:10.000And you can leave it in one place for, like, a few hours just sitting there in the sun, yeah, for sure.
02:03:14.000But as far as the hunting goes, like, I've gotten better at, like, the planning and the backcountry gear, but that's all, like, I think you learn that pretty quick.
02:03:23.000But you find out if you're a shitty hunter right away because you come home with no meat all the time, right?
02:05:29.000But I hunted for years, and then recently, my friend was filming, and as I would shoot, I would punch a trigger like crazy, and I didn't even realize I was doing it.
02:05:39.000And it got worse and worse, to the point where I ended up giving my releases away and stopped hunting for about four months.
02:07:34.000When you learned how to use a thumb trigger and use back tension, is it something you got from YouTube videos, or did you have someone show you how to do it?
02:07:44.000Yeah, I had a friend show me how to do it.
02:07:45.000I have a really good friend from Spain.
02:09:48.000So, as I'm settling, you know, I get to full draw, I get my anchor, I start settling the pin, and I look at my bubble level, and once my little checklist is online, and I'm on the animal, as soon as I feel like my pin starts to relax and steady...
02:10:06.000I spell the word lock and squeeze at the same time.
02:10:43.000Are hoping you're going to hit that animal.
02:10:45.000When that arrow goes off, if you're hoping, you're not going to hit him, you're not going to kill him.
02:10:50.000It's not going to be an efficient, ethical shot.
02:10:52.000But he goes, if you truly believe that you're there to kill that animal, and that animal's going to die right then, it's a huge piece of the puzzle.
02:11:01.000Yeah, there's a website called Iron Mind Hunting.
02:11:06.000I think, I forget his name, Joel something or another.
02:11:09.000But he suffered through target panic himself, and he's a SWAT guy, and a police officer, and developed a whole system, understanding the impact bracing, and a whole system.
02:11:35.000And it's one of those things where, you know, no matter how long you've been doing it, it's possible that this shit could creep into your brain, which is weird.
02:11:43.000Like, people have been successful hunting for years and years, and then all of a sudden they get target panic, and they're fucked.
02:11:49.000Almost everybody you meet who's bowhunted for a couple decades has had it.
02:11:56.000Everybody from Randy Ulmer to everybody.
02:11:58.000Yeah, Randy Ulmer has a couple of good videos on how to handle it too.
02:12:02.000And he says you should use a back tension release to get used to it.
02:12:06.000Or a hinge release, and what that is for the people who don't understand what we're talking about, there's another type of release that doesn't have a trigger at all.
02:12:13.000And what you do is you draw back, and just by moving your hand, you're sort of curling your pinky down and making a fist, it goes off, but you never know when it's going off.
02:12:22.000It goes off completely unanticipated, and that helps you deal with this tension issue.
02:13:20.000It was just like you had to use the rocky...
02:13:24.000The rocky outcroppings and just the basic terrain features to get close and we ended up sneaking down on this bedded group of deer that was at the base of this cliff.
02:14:54.000To me, I love hunting in the mountains where it's cold and beautiful and I'm looking at a big valley or over the ocean in Hawaii where you can see the ocean and the whitecaps and boats going by.
02:16:08.000I was hunting with another buddy in Australia, and we were hunting in an area that had crocodiles.
02:16:12.000And every day we had to cross a couple little areas that had water.
02:16:17.000And I just, I didn't even think about it because I'm not like, I'm not around crocodiles, right?
02:16:22.000And he just, after the first day, he didn't really worry about it too much.
02:16:25.000After we crossed, he goes, hey, if I'm not with you tomorrow and you cross here, make sure you throw a bunch of rocks in the water right there to make sure there's no crocodiles.
02:16:33.000Because if they, if a human passes by an area where there's crocodiles over and over and over, they pattern them and they will sit there and wait.
02:16:42.000For that human to cross again and get you.
02:16:49.000They actually wait for whether it's a rabbit going by every day or a human or whatever it is, a dog, a cat, and they will sit there and wait just underwater.
02:16:57.000And when you go by, that's when they strike.
02:17:02.000The fact that they could just stay underwater for hours without breathing, they slow their heart rate down to like a beat a minute or something stupid.
02:17:08.000There's a place in northwestern Australia where the waves are really good.
02:17:13.000And in that area, there's a ton, a ton of great whites, tiger sharks, and ocean saltwater crocodiles.
02:20:59.000There's a few of them up here that are big as shit.
02:21:02.000It was huge, big-ass diamond head, you know, big-ass triangle head.
02:21:06.000I was like, look at the size of this fucking thing.
02:21:08.000And I'm like defenseless, like mentally defenseless, because I don't even know, I don't know how to react to snakes, I don't know what to do, I don't know where they live, I don't know what they hide under usually.
02:21:17.000I don't have any snake background, so I'm not like looking, oh god, no thank you.
02:21:22.000Giant rattlesnake killed, look at the size of this one, this one's like fucking 12 feet long.
02:21:58.000Vantage Point Archery makes these little two-bladed, same ones that Adam uses, but they're all machined out of one piece of steel, so they're very strong.
02:22:10.000They're just super reliable heads, and they fly well.
02:22:13.000Yeah, that's a big debate in the archery world, expandable broadheads versus fixed head.
02:22:19.000What we're talking about, folks, is like expandables, as they go in, these blades open up on the side.
02:22:35.000I've used Rages a bit, and I've had really good luck with them, actually.
02:22:38.000I've had friends that were like, oh man, I can't do the Rage thing anymore.
02:22:42.000But I've had super good luck with them.
02:22:44.000Well, they're making hybrids now, too.
02:22:46.000Like Muzzy makes a hybrid, and then there's those Gravediggers, where it's a fixed head blade, and then two other blades open up behind it, which is actually probably even better than just a regular fixed blade.
02:22:56.000It totally depends on what you're hunting, too, because, like, where I live, I hunt Axis deer.
02:23:01.000Axis deer were brought from Sri Lanka.
02:23:50.000Because the sound makes them duck down.
02:23:53.000They react like super, super hyper fast.
02:23:56.000So the reason I brought it up is because those mechanicals are really good, especially on axis deer, because...
02:24:02.000Even if you make a perfect shot, like if you're just an incredible archer like someone like Cameron Haynes, you're 40 yards, you're just rock solid, not nervous, you can make the perfect shot.
02:24:12.000That animal could be completely spin around into 180 and you hit him in the other side or you hit him and, you know, you can make a gut shot even though you made a perfect shot.
02:24:21.000So, in those kind of situations, I think, you know, a big expoundable is really good, you know, because if you hit him badly, those things cut.
02:24:33.000Cam shot a bear with one of those gravediggers.
02:24:36.000It's one of those hybrid blades where it has a large fixed blade, but then it has these two really big expandables that go to an inch and three quarters.
02:24:44.000And it just opened up a shot like a 300 Win Mag.
02:25:14.000Yeah, they have a 5, a 6, and a 7, I believe.
02:25:16.000So the 5 is the fastest one, but it's probably not as easy to shoot.
02:25:22.000So with all speed bows, I think the shorter the brace height, the faster they go.
02:25:28.000But my understanding is, and I'm not the super archer guy, but my understanding is that the longer the brace height in general, the more forgiving the bow is to shoot.
02:25:38.000We just got in this technical geek talk with people in their cars right now going, what the fuck are they talking about?
02:25:44.000We're fast forwarding to the next subject.
02:27:10.000And so I'm going to Bali to go and help like mentor them, surf with them, help train them, and help get them ready for like the next step, right?
02:29:41.000It helps stretch me out and loosen it up.
02:29:42.000There's also some, we have some decompression stuff in the back, some different spinal decompression things that I could show you that'll help.
02:29:49.000I'm kind of an expert now in healing up back injuries.
02:31:42.000It's one of those things, though, like for a dude, especially a manly surfer bowhunting type dude, you tell people, yeah, I'm really into yoga.
02:31:49.000Oh, what are you, sucking dicks over there in that yoga class there?
02:31:52.000It's one of those, it seems like a feminine thing.