In this episode, we talk about running for 24 hours straight and how to deal with the pain that comes with it. We also talk about the mind games your brain plays on you during a race and how you have to push through it to finish the race. We talk about our experience at the Western States 100 this past weekend and what we did to prepare for the upcoming 200 mile race in August. And we talk a little bit about running a 100 mile race for the first time and what it's like to run for 24 straight hours straight. Enjoy the episode and remember to tweet me if you do! Timestamps: 1:00:00 - Running for 24 Straight Hours 4:30 - The pain of the race 6:40 - The feeling of crossing the finish line 7:00 8:15 - How I feel after running a marathon 9:20 - What it s like to finish a race 11:40 What is it like running a race for 24 Hours Straight? 12:30 13:00- The feeling after a long run 14:30- The pain 15:00 Thoughts on running for a long amount of hours 16:15- How do you deal with it 17:20- What does it feel like when you cross a race? 18:15 19:40- What do you feel after a race ? 21: What does that feel like 22:00 After a race like that experience 23:00 What are you could have done better? 26:00 + 27: What is your biggest takeaway from this past week 27: Is it possible to do better than the next one? 28:30 + 29:00+ 29:10 30:30+ 32:50 35:40 + 35:00 My goal for the next race 35 + 36:00 & 36:40 My goals for the future 36:20 37:00 / 37:50 + 39:40 & 39:00 And so much more 39:20 + 40:00 I hope you enjoy this episode 40:30 & 41:00 Thank you for listening to this episode of the podcast & 40:40 Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. - Thank you guys for tuning in!
00:01:53.000Those last 20 minutes, you're totally thinking about, it'd be so nice to just get the fuck out of this hot room, drink some cold water, but you just power through.
00:03:10.000What is the feeling like when you cross, when it's 24 hours, the time's up, you look at your distance, 102 miles, what does that feel like?
00:03:21.000Most days, and this is just me, I can't expect anybody to be able to relate to my screwed up mind, but I mean, me personally, I can go run 15 miles, get a good workout, Go home and an hour later,
00:03:43.000So the big thing for me is when I've done something like that for one of the few times throughout the year, I feel satisfied that I gave what I had.
00:04:05.000Just because in that race, and I can try to have it make sense, I can be logical about it, and I can say, well, I went out really fast because I wanted to be as miserable as possible for as long as possible to prepare myself for the Bigfoot 200. So I can say,
00:04:21.000I ran super hard for 4 hours hoping I was going to be miserable for 20 and I knew my pace would be slower and it would be more painful but in the big picture it will help me.
00:04:43.000And so I was on pace for a lot of miles.
00:04:46.000I was second place at 62 miles and at 12 hours I had run, I think, 65 miles.
00:04:54.000So I'm on pace for 130, so I really died.
00:04:57.000And yeah, I can use words and say, well, it was a plan, it was part of being miserable and preparing myself for a greater challenge, but I also feel like, you know, I gave up miles and I could have got my most miles ever and I should have got 120 plus miles.
00:05:20.000And so, yeah, there's always the feeling I could have done more, even though, but I'm a little bit satisfied.
00:06:47.000I mean, I, and again, People aren't gonna understand this, but the day after I ran 102, I ran 13 miles.
00:06:57.000And that was just because when I run the Bigfoot 200, I'm gonna have to be able to come back after, you know, multiple days of being hurt and banged up.
00:07:06.000And that's the name of the game, you know, to cover 200 miles.
00:07:11.000In a couple days like I want to, I'm not going to be 100%.
00:07:14.000So I thought, well, I can't know what it feels like to run after I run 100 miles unless, one, I run 100 miles, and two, I run the day after.
00:08:29.000And you're a professional bowhunter, essentially.
00:08:32.000But you have this thing in your head where you have to push yourself as far and as hard as possible to find out for yourself, to set goals, to try to push past this pain and endurance barrier that you have.
00:09:13.000It's just what I feel like I need to do.
00:09:17.000Do you know how long you're going to continue to do this?
00:09:21.000No, but people have told me when I started doing marathons and running the mountain back home, like I said, I don't know, years ago, 15 years ago, and people said then, well, if you keep running like this,
00:09:37.000by the time you're 40, you won't be able to run.
00:09:55.000That's why, you know, if I would have listened to people tell me what I shouldn't do or couldn't do or nobody could do, I wouldn't have done hardly anything in my life.
00:10:42.000We were kind of talking about this earlier today.
00:10:44.000I think there's something in some people where they see someone doing something crazy that they can't do, and they want to figure out...
00:10:52.000There's got to be something wrong with you, and they've got to figure out a way to criticize you, instead of saying, wow, that guy's fucking crazy.
00:11:29.000See, you're the kind of guy where I feel like if that didn't exist, you'd have real problems just integrating and relating to regular society.
00:12:56.000And setting the goals to run Bigfoot 200 or whatever, that's just me.
00:13:01.000I don't know if anybody, I might not even see anybody during that whole race.
00:13:05.000So it's just like, you know, I think there's 75 or so people signed up, but it's going to be probably pretty spread out pretty quickly, just depending on how fast people go out or do whatever.
00:13:19.000So I could go, you know, two complete days and not see anybody.
00:13:24.000So yeah, it's not, it's not really, it's not like the Olympic 100 meter dash where you're lined up against, you know, eight other guys and you see exactly where everybody's at.
00:13:35.000It's, this is more about a test of personal will.
00:13:40.000You know, we were talking today also where a guy that we know who's kind of an expert in a lot of physical things was saying, why don't you take EPO? All these people that you're racing against are probably taking EPO. It's not like they're going to test you.
00:14:25.000Apparently it's big with a lot of these ultramarathon guys, where it just reduces inflammation in some way that they find very beneficial, as opposed to non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, which we'll probably get into too.
00:14:41.000But these ultra-marathon guys, now that it's becoming more and more acceptable to use cannabis, these people are coming out and talking about it.
00:14:52.000It's interesting that it benefits them in that way.
00:14:55.000Because jujitsu people have been saying it for years.
00:14:59.000People always associate marijuana with you being lazy.
00:15:02.000But with a lot of jujitsu guys, they find that it makes them more creative and more tuned into what they're doing.
00:15:09.000And also able to, you know, jujitsu can be pretty painful too.
00:15:13.000But although it's a different kind of pain, it's pain in short...
00:16:28.000It's just, they just decide, like, even if you're doing your job well...
00:16:32.000They still feel like they can test your body and find out what you're doing.
00:16:37.000And it's also, one of the real problems is it's rooted in ignorance.
00:16:41.000Because if you have this stuff in your system, like say if you smoke pot on a Friday, you get off work, have a joint, you know, go play baseball with your son, have a good time.
00:16:50.000It's not like you're high on Monday when you show up for work, but it'll still be in your system.
00:18:32.000Because we all know people that have had problems.
00:18:35.000For me, the most disturbing one has been people that I know that have had pill problems, like speed and things along those lines, because a lot of times they're functional.
00:18:44.000And if you're dealing with important stuff, you could be making critical decision errors because you're impaired.
00:18:51.000So they might have hired you based on your critical thinking and your reasoning, but then that's all being compromised by a drug, and there's only one way to find out what the fuck is going on with you.
00:20:15.000Not in a sense that you catch it, you know, oh man, I didn't wash my hands, I caught Vegas.
00:20:19.000You know, it's not like that, but it's a legitimate disease in the sense that it can fuck with your mind in a way that is almost out of your control, like a cold makes your physical health out of your control.
00:20:32.000Like when I have a cold, I get upset at myself.
00:20:36.000You let yourself get run down, you know, you didn't get enough sleep, you didn't, you know, whatever it is, you traveled too much, and here you are, now you feel like shit.
00:21:04.000I think that there's a real problem with that.
00:21:07.000And, you know, I mean, I guess you could say if you're the employer and, you know, this is the kind of people that you want and it's up to you to do that.
00:21:22.000Well, I think they're a fair employer, so I think even if you did test for something and you were a good employee, they're going to work through whatever issues you have.
00:21:35.000Yeah, they're going to make you go to rehab with a bunch of losers.
00:21:40.000Can you imagine what it's like going to a rehab if you smoke a little weed and you get popped at work and you've got to go to a rehab with a bunch of stone-cold junkies?
00:22:04.000Take a couple months off work after that.
00:22:07.000There was a pre-workout supplement that we were talking about on the way up here, too, where they pulled it off the shelf because they found fucking meth in it.
00:27:04.000Balls crash, so your balls take a break.
00:27:07.000And when your balls go on vacation, then it takes like a couple weeks for them to get back up to speed after you're done.
00:27:12.000Because if you're on that stuff, like say if you're on for like six weeks, I think they say it takes like at least three for your body to get back to normal.
00:28:00.000There's a bunch of different foods that make your body produce more testosterone.
00:28:08.000Here's an interesting thing that a lot of people are finding when they're going on ketogenic diets.
00:28:14.000And this is several people, including me, that have done this, where once you start going on these ketogenic diets and you get your testosterone tested, and this is people that are on testosterone replacement and people that are not on testosterone replacement.
00:28:28.000I've had three different friends who have similar results, where your test just gets jacked.
00:28:33.000So, what turns out that fats are one of the most important things, like healthy fats and essential fatty acids and even saturated fats and even cholesterol, is one of the most important things for your body to convert to testosterone.
00:28:51.000For your body to produce testosterone, it needs those precursors.
00:28:54.000It needs those important aspects of nutrition.
00:28:57.000Which is really interesting because for so long, people thought that low-fat diets were healthy.
00:29:02.000And low-fat was the way to go, and low-fat will make you have more energy, you'll be healthier.
00:29:08.000But it turns out that's not necessarily true.
00:29:11.000And it's weird because what was like doctrine 20 years ago, or 10 years ago, now they go, well, that's not the case.
00:29:19.000I was reading my kid a book, a Dr. Seuss book.
00:30:31.000Belly fat, and face fat, and neck fat, and arm fat, and We're capable of so much.
00:30:38.000And then you see people who, you know, and I understand people are going through things or challenges, have different challenges in their life.
00:34:04.000I mean, when you start hunting elk in the backcountry or even deer in the backcountry or whatever you bear, you've got to get that thing back to the truck.
00:34:11.000And so there's some guys who can just beast it, who don't train, who can just say, well...
00:34:17.000I'll just take some time and I'll get it out.
00:34:19.000There's a few guys who can do that and just one step at a time type thing.
00:34:23.000Most guys have to train to be in that position.
00:35:09.000It's, you know, when I killed that moose up in Alaska with Roy, you know, our last hunt together, a moose, and that was up over a big ridge into another canyon, you know, it was four miles, it wasn't seven like Remy's, but it was 600 pounds of meat,
00:35:25.000so how are you going to get 600 pounds of meat?
00:35:28.000I mean, it's going to be 100 pounds at a time, and Up over the hill.
00:36:19.000And it was just like probably five times easier.
00:36:23.000Why would walking in the creek be good?
00:36:25.000The only thing I could think of is if you were so hot from carrying all that weight that it would cool you off a little bit, but then you'd be wet.
00:36:43.000And he had cut some of the brush that was growing over the creek out of the way, so he sort of had a trail cut in there, and he came in there the year before.
00:36:50.000I think he killed a bull back in there.
00:36:52.000So we sort of had a trail cut in there, but the walking in the creek with the slipping and sliding and everything else, we went on the ridge and he's like, wow, this is way better.
00:37:07.000Rinella's brother fucked his back up so bad that he had to buy llamas.
00:40:19.000We have ridden a lot and I remember I was hunting in Australia with Adam Greentree and they call them Brombees back there so it's just wild horses and we were sitting there under a tree as hot as I mean 120 degrees Fahrenheit it's crazy hot we're just sitting there boiling here's this white stallion coming A Bromby.
00:40:40.000And Adam's like, oh, that's a beautiful trophy.
00:44:35.000His brother, he had a brother named Jericho.
00:44:39.000But his take on it was that as a person who goes out and takes a life and does this in sort of a public manner, you have an obligation to consume that animal.
00:44:51.000And so I was saying to him, well, if you go over to Africa, He's like, well, I've never been to Africa, and I don't have a desire to go to Africa, but if I did, and I shot a lion, I'd eat that lion.
00:45:03.000So he won't shoot anything unless he eats it.
00:45:06.000And he's actually been on many grizzly hunts, but he won't hunt coastal grizzlies, because he doesn't want a grizzly that's been eating fish.
00:46:41.000And anyway, these deer, they're essentially almost like farm animals.
00:46:45.000And they live in conjunction with people.
00:46:48.000Like, their numbers have never been higher.
00:46:51.000And one of the reasons is that we have these enormous farm areas.
00:46:56.000People who are not aware, if you look at the United States, if you look at the areas that are known for being agriculturally strong, like Kansas, Iowa, those are where all the bucks are.
00:48:43.000But these areas in our country that are primarily agriculture areas that have these massive deer populations, that is the number one most hunted animal in North America is whitetail deer.
00:49:09.000Yeah, these are mountain animals and they'll occasionally go into fields and stuff too and near farms for sure but you're finding a lot of these animals like they're just totally completely wild and For some people those animals because of the fact they're wild become like a more desirable animal It's like The mountains are I don't want to say Romanticize,
00:49:34.000but people look at the mountains differently, it seems like.
00:49:37.000You know, just being in the mountains is powerful in itself.
00:49:40.000So when you're hunting an animal that is a mountain monarch, so to speak, a big bull elk, sheep, a very noble animal that lives exclusively in the mountains, and a mountain mule deer.
00:49:52.000And bow hunters know, especially, you know, I don't want to say, I was going to say western bow hunters know, but any bow hunter knows that tries to go after mule deer in the mountains.
00:50:25.000Yeah, compared to mule deer because they make noise themselves, so they're big animals, 800 pounds, kicking rocks, breaking branches, so they're making noises, so you can get away with some noise.
00:52:22.000So if the wind is really blowing and the grass where they're bedded is blowing around or even the wind is blowing the hair in their ears around, they can't hear.
00:52:30.000So if it's windy, you can get close to them.
00:52:34.000If it's dead calm, it's not going to be easy.
00:52:49.000It is interesting, too, that these animals that are more difficult to get to, and this is one thing that is contrary to the way a lot of people think about hunting.
00:52:59.000At least at the highest level the the animals that are the most difficult to get to and the hunts that are most difficult are the most prized and it's one of the reasons why people like you gravitate towards bow hunting because bow hunting is far more difficult than rifle hunting and then the animals that are the most difficult to bow hunt become the most prized like for a lot of people like wild desert bighorn sheep,
00:53:26.000When you have to go to these really crazy places that is really high up in the mountains, very difficult to get here in the first place.
00:53:33.000And then, good luck sneaking up on them.
00:53:36.000You're wide out in the open on this gigantic mountain with all this shale and rocks and...
00:53:42.000I mean, those are the animals that people prize in some strange way that these hunters, like, the difficulty of the hunt, the tougher it is to camp out there, the difficulty in the conditions, the tougher those conditions are, the more people sort of,
00:53:59.000like, praise those kind of experiences.
00:54:17.000So we bow hunt because we like challenge and we put those animals on pedestals because they're the ultimate challenge.
00:54:24.000Yeah, and it's, for people that don't hunt, they don't, they probably are not, not only are not aware of this, but it might not even make that much sense that this is one of the reasons why those animals are so, like, people say, oh, you know, it doesn't, like, how many times have I read this?
00:54:40.000It doesn't take any skill, you know, what you're doing is horrible and terrible.
00:54:43.000It's one of the most difficult things you could do in the world.
00:54:47.000If you want to try to feed yourself with a bow and an arrow, a stick and a string, you want to try to feed yourself with that?
00:54:53.000Yeah, the people who say there's no skill involved in bow hunting haven't done it.
00:54:58.000They definitely haven't, but it's also an inconsiderate, convenient way of dismissing something that they don't agree with because of their ideology.
00:55:11.000And with a lot of the people, there's these people that eat meat, which is really weird.
00:55:15.000It's like you're eating meat and you're dismissing someone who's doing one of the most difficult things in the world with meat.
00:55:23.000Yeah, well, I guarantee, you know, I know there's people out there who don't hunt who respect animals.
00:55:32.000Those people could never have the same amount of respect, I don't think, as a hunter who knows what it takes to survive up there, what it takes to outwit the animal up there, what it takes to be successful, and to get the meat off the mountain after you've harvested one.
00:55:47.000The amount of respect that whole process builds in a hunter, there's no way somebody who hasn't done it could appreciate or match.
00:55:56.000I don't know whether or not they could appreciate it as much I just don't think they understand the experience I don't think they understand the beauty that some people find in that experience because I think in their eyes if you take life This is a negative thing and a terrible thing.
00:56:16.000But the way I always kind of look at it, there's a storm going on out there, okay?
00:56:23.000Close your door, watch Game of Thrones, sit in your air-conditioned apartment, drink your soda, and like, oh, life is beautiful.
00:56:29.000I don't know why anybody would go out there and kill an animal.
00:56:31.000There's a storm of animals killing animals out there.
00:56:37.000While we're sitting in this beautiful air-conditioned studio here in lovely Woodland Hills, California.
00:56:42.000There is a fucking storm where coyotes are killing deer and bears are killing each other.
00:56:49.000And that fucking picture that we posted that you showed me that I said I was going to post later today of that polar bear carrying around that cub's head.
00:57:00.000And all you're doing as a hunter is you're choosing to not go the factory farm route and to make this experience of gathering your food a massive challenge and an incredibly rewarding experience.
00:57:14.000And you connect yourself to the wild in some really bizarre way that I never understood in Until I started doing it.
00:57:24.000I always thought, well, this is probably the better way to get meat.
00:58:18.000Because when you're actually in this animal's environment, you're in this really quiet forest, and you're sneaking up on this animal, and you're pursuing it, and you're hunting it, and you lock eyes with this thing.
00:58:32.000In this animal's world, this animal doesn't know anything about culture.
00:58:36.000It doesn't know anything about your traditions, or your rules, or your ideas, or your ethics, or what you think should and shouldn't be done.
00:59:45.000Now, what people who don't hunt don't seem to understand is that the people that do hunt are responsible directly for the population increase of all these animals.
00:59:57.000And it's very contradictory in a lot of ways.
00:59:59.000The people that don't like hunting but love animals don't understand that the numbers are where they are now Directly because of people contributing to wildlife preservation, to habitat preservation, and to making sure that wildlife biologists manage these areas properly.
01:00:19.000And that's a hard pill to swallow for people who love animals, but the people who are spending the most amount of money to keep these animals healthy want to go kill them and eat them.
01:00:33.000It doesn't necessarily add up the way you would like it to.
01:00:36.000It seems contradictory, but hunters are why there's more—we looked this up last time—more deer, elk, bear, turkey numbers than there ever has been in North America.
01:00:46.000I think elk doesn't occupy as much area as it used to be, but that was because— The assholes who were around in the 1800s who came along first, or the 16, 17, and 1800s, they just shot the shit out of them.
01:01:01.000And they were doing it for meat to stay alive.
01:01:03.000A lot of it was also Dan Flores, who was on Ronella's podcast, if you haven't listened to that, the Meat Eater podcast, listen to this one because it's sensational.
01:01:13.000He's a wildlife historian and he talks about the history of wildlife in North America.
01:01:18.000And the same guys that killed off massive amounts of buffalo in this country and almost made them extinct, they did the same thing with pronghorns.
01:02:59.000And then this is a different world, too, because you were saying when you grew up that hunters were thought of as like, wow, this guy provides for his family.
01:03:07.000He goes out and does this incredibly difficult thing.
01:03:23.000You know, so hunters were put on a pedestal in the town I grew up in and where I lived.
01:03:28.000And it was, there was something, you know, you had pride that you hunted.
01:03:32.000Well, this is what I think is good about all this controversy.
01:03:35.000When you were doing this, when you were young, there was no social media, and so you weren't engaging with people that thought in a contrary way, that thought different, that were upset by your actions, and they weren't engaging with you either.
01:03:50.000They looked at hunters like Elmer Fudd.
01:03:52.000You know, they looked at him like some guy, hunters in a movie are always this drunk guy who's like out there shooting at anything that moves.
01:04:01.000And that was their perception, and your perception was based on your environment, where you're in, you know, this area that's pretty rural.
01:04:10.000There's a lot of wildlife, a lot of hunters, and it's a super normal part of the environment, the culture.
01:04:17.000So these people that are urban, that are just conditioned to thinking of animals as being pets that you love, and food as being something that you get from a grocery store.
01:04:27.000Even the people that buy meat, they're not involved in any way, shape, or form in the killing of that meat, so they're completely disconnected from it.
01:04:35.000So this, even though there's like this craziness going on where these animal rights people are saying, I hope your mother gets raped and killed and murdered and gutted in front of your children, and all this crazy shit that I've seen.
01:04:46.000These angry, angry people that think of...
01:04:52.000I don't know if they're actually angry in as much...
01:04:56.000In a logical progression where it makes sense, or if it's just they feel like they have the right to go after you because you're killing things.
01:05:06.000And they're really just fucking imbalanced.
01:05:20.000There's some people that love to be negative and they love to be aggressive and they love to be shitty and insulting and hostile.
01:05:28.000And the way to ensure that that behavior is not just accepted but actually rewarded is to be negative and hostile and even violent for a good cause.
01:06:24.000I understand where they're coming from, and I understand their perspective as someone who actually does love animals.
01:06:28.000I understand that this contradiction is very difficult to deal with, and that's one of the things that I think is important about this This new age of interaction is that some people are kind of getting the understanding.
01:06:40.000They're getting the message like, okay, I thought that this thing was about these people that hated animals that went out and shot them and killed them, but now I'm seeing that this thing also has a lot of different layers to it, and there's a broad range of these people.
01:06:55.000And the noble ones are actually doing not just a service to the wildlife, they're stewards of the wildlife and stewards of the land.
01:07:05.000And they're also getting their food, they're getting the healthiest food that a person can eat from the wild.
01:07:14.000This idea that you can somehow or another have no harm and do no harm to animals.
01:07:25.000Depends on what you think less harm means.
01:07:27.000Because if you're talking about bugs or bugs life, if you're talking about rodents, if you're talking about things that get chewed up when they process grain, you're not...
01:08:51.000I know that scientists are actually trying to come up with feasible methods of taking places that are just like really polluted and actually using that pollutant or those pollutants and turning it into some sort of a product that we can use.
01:10:59.000But I think that just these conversations, they're important.
01:11:04.000It's also important for people that are enchanted by maybe a more radical animal activist perspective.
01:11:15.000And, you know, it seems to make sense, but sometimes that needs to be balanced out and you need to consider both sides.
01:11:22.000And I think the hunting side is not represented enough in an intelligent way where it balances out some of the more radical and also proselytizing.
01:11:34.000Like, they're trying to convert people into their world in a lot of ways.
01:11:38.000Like, a lot of people that are animal rights people or vegan people are really actively trying to get people to do what they do.
01:11:44.000And get super upset when people find it unhealthy or no longer do it.
01:11:55.000But when people go back, and that used to be vegan, they say, fucking my whole body's falling apart, my hair's falling My skin is turning dry.
01:12:08.000I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do it, but there's a lot of aspects that if you talk to an actual scientist, real nutritionists, people who are experts in human biology and the direct mechanisms of absorbing nutrients, there's some real issues with plant versions of many different things,
01:12:25.000including vitamin B12, A bunch of different fatty acids that although they are active in some plants and seeds and oils, which are probably good for you, they're actually not nearly as bioavailable as fatty fish and DHEA and a lot of different essential fatty acids,
01:12:44.000omegas, threes and sixes and all these different things.
01:12:46.000They're more biologically available to human beings in animal form.
01:13:42.000Well, Sam Harris, who was on our podcast recently, he recently converted to being a vegan as well because of the honest concerns with factory farming and things along those lines.
01:13:54.000And his blood lipids are all fucked up.
01:16:15.000But my point is, accepting the hierarchy of life, because if you buy commercial grain, you're directly responsible for an industry that kills a lot of beings.
01:16:28.000Now, are the pesticides, unless you buy everything organic from a fucking hand-picked farm, and you absolutely know that no one had any, absolutely no pesticides were done, no one had anything that they put into the ground that's dangerous to any of the life...
01:16:44.000The likely case is that if you're buying pasta, or if you're buying rice, or if you're buying any of these things, you're buying these things from some sort of a farm that displaces wildlife, kills massive amounts of rodents and bugs and all these different things,
01:17:01.000and is a bug worth as much as the life of an elk?
01:17:09.000Is a mouse worth as much as a white-tailed deer?
01:17:14.000I don't know if it is, but I know that millions of rodents are killed in this country every year with green combines.
01:17:22.000And with that illustration where all the animals are mixed in with the man, I guess everybody's equal, right?
01:17:27.000So why would it be okay to have wheat harvested Buzzards flying all around that field because of all the carnage down below and they're scavengers.
01:17:36.000So all the rodents, all the rabbits, all the pheasants, even whitetail fawn maybe.
01:17:44.000All the animals that are killed down there, they're coming down to eat those.
01:17:47.000So in the harvest of that wheat bread, or the wheat for the bread, all these animals died.
01:17:52.000Well, if everything's equal, why is that okay but hunting isn't?
01:18:16.000She's like, well, we do what we have to sometimes when we have ants.
01:18:19.000I go, you're a vegetarian, she's a vegan, and you don't believe in killing life unless there's these cunty bugs that try to invade your camp, and then you kill them in mass with toxic chemicals you spray from the sky in these canisters of death.
01:20:34.000We're really vulnerable without all these tools and all these houses and all these fucking people that figured out fire and metal and all this shit long before you were alive.
01:20:44.000The reason why you're alive today is because really ingenious, inventive, industrious people figured out how to survive in a world where we're weak as shit.
01:24:13.000You know like your friend Roy mm-hmm, so it's a yeah, I mean that's where I mean that's where I Feel most alive obviously because you have to be you know if you're not in tune Who knows what happens it seems like also that there's some some reward systems that are built into being a human being they get like little switches and That gets snapped on when you're out there that I didn't even know existed.
01:24:43.000And it's what I've seen with many people who are very smart people who become hunters who then they start talking about it and they articulate really similar thoughts that it becomes the act of consuming becomes very different When you acquire it the hard way.
01:25:34.000There's a primal satisfaction attached to that.
01:25:38.000And there's also this feeling like, I know that thing wasn't penned up.
01:25:41.000I know that thing didn't get stuffed full of hormones.
01:25:44.000I know that thing didn't get tortured before it died.
01:25:47.000I know it wasn't corralled into this area and then they shoot a fucking piston into its brain while it's watching all of its friends die in the same way.
01:26:36.000And I wonder if this new trend away from that, I wonder what's going on with human beings.
01:26:41.000And if it is just a natural progression of creating structures and safety and society in the sense of civilization the way we think of it today.
01:26:50.000I wonder if it's a natural sort of a progression to slowly but surely move away from that world.
01:26:57.000Wild world and to get more and more custom with the idea of us creating our own food from some other way Like by detaching from how you grow your vegetables by detaching from where your meat comes from That we're like setting ourselves up to go further and further down this road of not really being an animal anymore Being some new kind of weird thing.
01:27:19.000I'm not going that way You're not going that way?
01:27:21.000Well, you're not going that way at this life.
01:28:56.000I don't think being comfortable all the time, I don't think, you know, LA and cities like LA, it's not good.
01:29:03.000I mean, it's not good to eliminate All the challenges of being a human I mean, that's why that's why I like getting out there and just Being immersed in challenge because I don't know.
01:29:17.000I mean, how do you appreciate how good you have it when you never have it hard?
01:29:22.000That's a big point It's a big point that was hammered home for me when I came back from Prince of Wales from unsuccessful hunt Yeah, we're out there for five or six days I think And it was pouring rain every day.
01:34:02.000And what a scrub bull is, is a domestic cow that got loose, you know, many, many generations ago, and now have become completely feral, and you're dealing with bulls.
01:34:12.000And you know how, like, when you ride bulls, folks, that they buck and kick?
01:34:16.000And you know how the matador stands in the middle and the bull just fucking charges him, tries to kill him?
01:34:21.000Yeah, that's what bulls do in the wild times ten.
01:34:25.000So you have these super hyper-aggressive masses of muscle.
01:35:13.000So you might as well just keep going until you realize that you have to draw.
01:35:18.000Yeah, I'm waiting for him to get broadside because with an animal that big, You just have to wait for a good broadside shot.
01:35:27.000And so here I am ranging him as I walk, and now he's getting ready to go broadside.
01:35:31.000That's an important point, man, because shot placement is something that people that don't understand hunting don't know how difficult it is to not just have a shot on an animal, but have an animal be in position to take the shot.
01:35:42.000I was watching a television show on guys that were hunting water buffalo with a bow and arrow, and I saw a guy take a frontal shot.
01:35:50.000See, he's not feeding, so I'm not moving.
01:36:52.000It's forward from an elk would be a little more back but basically you have to go right through that front leg and I shot a really heavy arrow a 90 pound that's a 90 pound Hoyt right there and you can see he's he's already weak so it's only been you know maybe a minute Not even.
01:37:19.000So if it's two quartering away, their stomach's big and it's full of grass, so that could essentially be like for an arrow to go all the way through a bunch of grass, wet grass, I mean, probably not going to happen.
01:37:33.000And you're shooting through ribs that are as thick as two by fours.
01:38:26.000The only reason why I throw out that is because we filtered it, we SteriPened it, we poured it through a shirt, and it still smelled like buffalo piss.
01:39:01.000I saw a sad thing, though, man, where this whale died, and when the whale was beached, they examined the contents of its stomach, and it was filled with fishing nets and plastic bags, because apparently whales eat a lot of squid, and they get confused at that stuff,
01:39:19.000like plastic bags and things along those lines, and they think that it's food.
01:39:23.000And then they got intestinal blockage, so it died by being backed up.
01:41:04.000So, like, the city and this transition that some organisms are going through from wild to civilized actually makes it possible for you to exist in the wild world.
01:41:16.000Again, just like the whole hunting is conservation thing, how ironic.
01:41:20.000And how there is something positive to a city.
01:41:42.000And for a guy like you who is so invested in living in the wild and having this challenge of being in the wild, you need your nice Under Armour clothes to keep you comfy and warm and dry when you're out there.
01:43:04.000I'm going to crush your fucking head with a rock, stupid, because I have an imposable thumb.
01:43:08.000So after you stab me with your needle that doesn't have any venom in it because you want to play fair, oh, look, I grab you by your head, I smash you with a rock.
01:43:36.000Even though it seems negative and it seems weird in the world of wildlife and hunting and hunters versus people who don't hunt, I think ultimately it all balances out really well because it all balances out in an honest way.
01:43:49.000There's going to be people that don't agree with things no matter what.
01:43:52.000Just like there's going to be people that don't agree with a lot of different things that a lot of people think are fine.
01:43:56.000There's going to be disagreements, but in those disagreements we're going to find arguments that make sense and arguments that don't make sense.
01:44:03.000We're going to find people that are disingenuous and that are not being totally honest with the scientific facts about nutrition, scientific facts about whether or not humans are omnivores or herbivores.
01:47:43.000And you didn't have a place where you could just go backpacking and just camp out.
01:47:49.000We have all these designated areas, designated areas that are all public land, owned by the taxpayers of the United States.
01:47:57.000And whether you appreciate hunting or whether you just appreciate camping or hiking or any of those things, we have a beautiful thing in this country.
01:48:06.000The wild world, the actual beautiful environment of these forests in most of the areas, or in a lot of the areas, all the areas designated as public land, they're ours.
01:48:23.000And even if the listeners aren't going to hunt, which...
01:48:26.000Fine, not everybody has to hunt, but I would say get out there to Yellowstone or there's some national forests here in California, some great, just get out there and experience life.
01:48:51.000And you don't know what it looks like if you're watching Avatar and a beautiful 4K TV, and you're like, oh, the beautiful, magical colors, and wow!
01:49:01.000You're experiencing a muted connection with your food and a very muted connection with wildlife that sometimes is fucking uncomfortable and scary.
01:51:02.000When I was in Montana this past week and went to the Yellowstone thing, I mean, you'd just be driving and you would just drive and just look down the street and go, fuck, this is crazy.
01:51:18.000Like, you're taking in this incredible mountainside covered in trees, and the sunlight is hitting the trees, and it had just got done raining, and everything was vibrant and green, and you're like, this is a drug.
01:51:31.000Like, I'm getting an eyeball drug by staring at this thing.
01:51:34.000Like, it's doing something to me physically where you just go, wow.
01:53:15.000You're an entrant in this weird sort of race that's going on where things are trying to get by.
01:53:23.000Things are trying to get by by eating all the grasses.
01:53:25.000The grasses are trying to get by by producing some sort of a chemical that discourages these things to eat them.
01:53:31.000The animals are trying to run from the other animals that are trying to eat them, and we're all just hanging out watching or participating.
01:53:39.000But in, you know, in regular life, everybody's so worried about people's feelings and people being fairly treated or people, whatever.
01:53:52.000And it's just like, it just gets so...
01:54:02.000I don't have to worry about or even think about everybody's cause or the cause of the day or I don't know.
01:54:10.000I mean, it's just it puts it in perspective.
01:54:12.000It does put in perspective and I think it would be good for everybody including people that are really invested in these causes to experience this.
01:54:20.000Yeah, because I think it broadens your perspective and And again, even if you're just hiking out there, like I said, the hunt that made me feel the most thankful was an unsuccessful one.
01:54:30.000So all we were doing was hiking with guns.
01:54:33.000So we went hiking with guns for five days in the rain.
01:54:35.000And I came back and I felt so goddamn good.
01:54:38.000And not just good about the ability to have food, to not have to go out and hunt it and kill it because we're unsuccessful, but...
01:54:45.000That this is a really cool thing that we figured out how to do to escape that world.
01:55:31.000So let's talk about that because we're going to end this soon and we're going to start the first episode of the Cameron Haynes podcast, but we have to have a name for it.
01:55:53.000And I was like, look at this fucking dude out there working, and his constant catchphrase is, keep hammering.
01:55:59.000I'm like, that's a good thing to think of if you're thinking about quitting.
01:56:04.000Like, if you're thinking about, if you're like, I'm gonna run five miles today, and on that third mile, you're like, fuck, I don't want to do this.
01:56:09.000And you just say, God, fucking keep hammering.
01:59:42.000Schirmer is a very famous skeptic and intellectual, and he's like, this is what they're doing.
01:59:48.000They're signaling to the people around them.
01:59:50.000Sort of like when an elk bugles is to let all the other elk know he's a bad motherfucker.
01:59:55.000Well, by having all these anti-hunters, which is like, if you have an anti-hunter post, you're absolutely going to have a bunch of people to take your side.
02:00:07.000But they also get to see how good your six-pack looks.
02:00:10.000So you say fuck those people, but you're also oiled down and you're talking about, you know, cruelty-free, you know, awesome life and healthy living while you're like overhead pressing a lot of weight.
02:00:23.000You look sleek and you probably get some pussy that way.
02:01:31.000He's a vegan, and he's talking about how awesome it is to be a vegan, and then he realizes in the middle of the video that the pizza has cheese in the sauce.
02:02:34.000Look, man, if you want something to be upset about rather than hunters, it is absolutely the fucking dairy industry and agricultural gag laws, those ag gag laws that don't allow you to film these chicken factories where these things are stuffed into these horrible conditions or pig factories or factory farming.
02:03:55.000Yep, and in that sense, all these vegans are right.
02:03:57.000In that sense, when they're talking about how animals are being treated, where we're getting our milk from and our cheese from, in most of these large-scale factories, they're right.
02:04:08.000They're 100% right, and I'm with them.
02:04:10.000I just think that this whole conversation is really about human beings and civilization itself and our ability to diffuse responsibility, our ability to detach ourselves.
02:04:24.000And just like we're talking about these people that consume grain and don't think about the consequences on life, these people that consume all sorts of vegetables that pesticides are used that are killing off bees.
02:04:35.000This is a huge issue that you contribute to.
02:04:39.000All the people that we know that eat fruits and vegetables most likely have in some way contributed to the large-scale death of a lot of different insects and animals.
02:05:50.000He said that they have done research where they have played the sound of animals eating leaves and plants next to plants and somehow or another the very sound of those animals eating plants causes the plants to excrete defensive chemicals.
02:06:10.000So, somehow or another, these plants, they're not just feeling that someone's eating them, they're hearing it, and they're aware, and they're reacting to sound in some sort of a strange way that is commensurate with the way an animal reacts to danger,
02:07:10.000Plants can hear themselves being eaten and become defensive when attacked.
02:07:15.000Researchers from the University of Missouri found plants respond to attack.
02:07:18.000They discovered that the sound of caterpillars eating made them more defensive and plants that heard caterpillar sounds released more mustard oils which are unappealing to caterpillars and thus ward them off.
02:07:46.000Most people don't give it a second thought when they're tucking into a plate of salad, but perhaps we should be a bit more considerate when chomping on lettuce.
02:07:53.000Scientists have found that plants actually respond defensively.
02:07:56.000You just need to accept the fact that life eats life.
02:08:00.000Well, that doesn't allow you to be sanctimonious or to take the moral high ground.
02:08:05.000So I'm going to have to say you're full of shit and a piece of fucking human garbage, and you're out there raping the world with your filthy skills.
02:08:12.000By the way, you can get this filthy skills t-shirt, skills with a Z, like the young kids are doing, these crazy kids, at CameronHaines.com, right?