In this episode, I sit down with former UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Matt Mitrione to discuss his recent loss to Cody Noelle and the lessons he's learned from it. We talk about the importance of a solid support system and how to deal with adversity. We also talk about how to move forward from a loss and what it really means to be a fighter and a martial artist. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed recording it! Tweet me if you have any questions, suggestions, suggestions or thoughts on anything we should cover in the next episode! Timestamps: 0:00 - What does it take to become a UFC fighter? 6:30 - How do you deal with losses? 9:00 - What do you do when things don't go your way? 12:15 - How can you bounce back after a loss? 19:30 - How does he deal with defeat? 27:15 - Why it's okay to lose? 29:00 | How do I deal with it? 31:10 - What is the best way to bounce back from losses? 36:10 | How can I move forward? 39:40 - What are my goals for the future? 41:30 | What do I need to do after losses? 42:40 | What's next? 45:10 47:00 Thoughts on the future of the UFC? Theme song by Ian Dorsch Theme Song by my main stream radio show: by & Music by my band, by my girl, (feat. ( ) and is outtro song by . (featuring my band , . (and ) (p& ) & (c) by (other - (music by ) and ( ) is outro music by my friend, (song by , and ) ( ) is also outtro by our new album in tribute to . . ( ) by my new album, . , (& , & ) . & ( ) and ( ) , , ( ) & ( outtro music by ! of my new song is out in the background ) by & . can you help us out with the beat by my music is out on the road! (
00:02:03.000It comes down to trust in the people around you.
00:02:08.000Not having nothing but yes men around you.
00:02:10.000And I feel like as long as you have a good solid base of people that give the truth to you… Then you don't have to think with your emotion and you can think with logic.
00:02:19.000I think it's important to have those people around you so you don't steer off the course.
00:02:23.000Right, because even if you do have a loss, it's not saying that everything is off, but certainly something wasn't adequate in that particular matchup.
00:02:35.000So you're just getting off of the second loss ever of your mixed martial arts career.
00:02:39.000The first one, you got caught by Uriah with a guillotine, and then the second one, this Cody No Love fight.
00:02:45.000What are your thoughts on it now, having time to reflect and look back?
00:03:23.000Some people don't want to show their vulnerability.
00:03:26.000Some people want to just be seen as only perfect, only tough, only strong.
00:03:30.000And really the truth of what makes the strongest people in the world is their vulnerability early until they learn how to be tough.
00:03:36.000And, you know, losing is part of that lesson, unfortunately.
00:03:40.000For everybody and being unsuccessful is part of that lesson for people just as much as losing so it's like you do what you can with it and that's how I feel now is like I do what I can with it and the only way to make the best of it is to accept it right the second it happens understand that That's just the way it is.
00:04:01.000That's the way that this has been slated for this portion of my life and just move forward.
00:04:06.000And as long as you embrace it, don't make excuses for it, and then you can actually look at what you did wrong and take it in.
00:04:13.000The second you make an excuse, the second you say, well, I was a little off here, a little off there because of this, this, and this, is the second you allow your mind to go into a path of, well...
00:04:24.000It wasn't in my control, which means you're not really dealing with the problems at hand, I don't think.
00:04:29.000I think you're kind of bypassing the problems at hand when you do that.
00:04:32.000And then you can't grow from the experience.
00:04:34.000So what's the point of a loss if you're not going to grow from it and get the most out of it?
00:04:37.000Now it's just useless if you don't accept it.
00:04:40.000Yeah, there's a real instinct that many fighters show, like almost immediately after a loss, to go right into what was wrong with the camp, what was wrong with an injury, what they could have done differently, personal problems.
00:04:53.000And that really can wreck havoc with your mind.
00:05:19.000I accepted it the second I shook his hand in that octagon and they raised his hand as the winner.
00:05:28.000I mean, am I really going to sit here and make excuses?
00:05:31.000Because let's say on the judges scorecard, I had some mindset that's like, oh, I shouldn't have lost the decision or maybe this, maybe that.
00:06:21.000But one of the things that people are getting a chance to see because of that is how your mind works and how much thought you put into not just fighting itself, but the whole process.
00:06:32.000The whole process of preparation and mindset while the competition is going on.
00:06:39.000And that's also being reflected right now in the way you express how you get over a loss.
00:06:45.000Where have you learned to think like this?
00:06:49.000Well, my mom is a big reason for that, I would say, early on.
00:06:55.000She just always forced me to deal with the things I didn't want to deal with.
00:06:58.000And not just deal with them, but look at them in the eye and talk about it.
00:07:04.000Like you steal a packet of gum from the store and you walk out with it and you're...
00:07:08.000I'm seven years old and you get home and you're eating a piece of gum and your mom goes, I didn't buy that for you, where'd you get that gum?
00:07:13.000And we drive back with the gum in my mouth, put it in the wrapper, show the person at the front and that's not enough because I embarrassed the cash register so I gotta apologize to them and then I gotta go to the owner of the store, the manager, and apologize to them and then...
00:07:29.000Might have to go paint a wall for him to make up for the piece of gum that I... I mean, it goes all the way down to that.
00:07:34.000My mom has been that way since I can remember to where.
00:11:13.000I'm sitting in Spanish class one day trying to learn what I've been learning in high school in Spanish class.
00:11:19.000I'm like, why am I paying for this school when I just did this class in high school and now I'm paying for it to get an associate's degree to go to another four years in college that I'm going to be in debt for?
00:11:30.000I wasn't happy in school after all my days at work.
00:11:35.000So I said, you know, the only time I felt free and happy was in the gym.
00:11:39.000It's the only time I could talk and laugh and smile and be myself, hurting other people, punching things, kicking things, yelling at things, telling people how I felt.
00:11:47.000And then if they had a problem, we could fight about it.
00:12:49.000So I think she's just so wise that she passed a lot of A lot of wisdom off to me young because she just growing up and raising us broke like she did by herself I think just taught her so much that she didn't want us to have to live any kind of struggle life like that.
00:13:07.000So she made us learn the hard way with her instead of her taking everything and not teaching us anything.
00:13:13.000We lived it with her and grew in the experience with her and then that got added to my life and what I wanted to do moving forward.
00:13:20.000Now, you developed a really unusual fighting style.
00:13:24.000I mean, I think I've said about you that one of the more unusual things about your style is that I could watch you like as a silhouette.
00:13:34.000Someone could show me a silhouette of you moving around.
00:14:12.000I mean, I've been fighting since as long as the Diaz brothers.
00:14:14.000I started when I was 19 years old back in 2005. And I've been doing it since then.
00:14:21.000So that's part of it, is that just years and years of fighting and facing different people and seeing what the issues were.
00:14:27.000But more than that, it was built around the fact that I knew whether I knew I was ahead or not, my mindset said I have to fight, do something different, because this is a new sport with new rules and different equipment than has ever been seen in the history of this world.
00:14:46.000So that means there's four-ounce gloves, We're using kicks, knees, elbows, and hands, everything, right?
00:14:55.000So I said I need to make sure that I'm not taking damage.
00:14:59.000As long as I'm not taking damage, I should win.
00:15:02.000I gotta be hard to hit and my defense needs to be flawless with these size gloves.
00:15:05.000It's not going to be the same as boxing.
00:15:07.000I can't just sit here and cover like this because my gloves are a quarter of the size.
00:15:10.000Things peek in and I learned that real quick.
00:15:13.000And so I said, alright, so I need to move nonstop.
00:15:15.000I can't sit still like I do in boxing or kickboxing because you're going to get taken down as well.
00:15:20.000So that's where my mind started changing is with the takedown.
00:15:24.000That's where I knew I really had to do something different is in no striking sport on earth is there a takedown involved.
00:15:31.000So that means that I need to attack on a different plane.
00:15:36.000And that means I need to not be down the center line.
00:15:38.000As long as I fight not down the center line, it takes away As long as I don't fight on the center line all the time, it takes away almost all weapons from all styles.
00:15:50.000Boxing is probably the one style that flows most off the center line.
00:15:55.000But when we're talking about Muay Thai, or we're talking about wrestling, or we're talking about Judo, or we're talking about almost every other martial art, they attack down a straight line.
00:16:05.000And so I knew I could take away most of their weapons just by changing the plane that I fought on.
00:16:12.000If I fought on a different plane than them, then they would not have answers for the plane that I'm fighting on because everything they do is on that line.
00:16:18.000So instead of fighting them and their style, I fought the lines that they're fighting on.
00:16:22.000And then that kind of changed things mixed with the defense.
00:16:25.000Well, I've always enjoyed watching you fight, and I've always enjoyed explaining how you fight to people that have never seen martial arts or don't understand it.
00:16:33.000Because for people on the outside, maybe someone who's not a fan or never did any martial arts training, they look at it like just violence.
00:16:40.000You know, they see guys just beating the shit out of each other.
00:16:42.000And the way I try to describe it to a friend once, I said, think about it this way.
00:16:51.000And the more words you have at your disposal, the more verbal memory you have, the more used to stringing together sentences you are, the more fluently the conversation is going to come out of your mouth.
00:17:03.000And when you're watching, and I'll show someone like you, when you're trying to have, you know, let's call it a conversation, trying to have a conversation with Dominic Cruz inside the Octagon, You don't know where the fuck he's going.
00:17:14.000Like, you're setting up so many weird angles and so much weird movements and so many false entries, and there's so much going on that you're, in a lot of ways, you're overloading a person's reactions.
00:18:41.000Which means that your style hits so many different avenues that you can compete with all these different styles no matter what they match you up against until...
00:18:51.000Now my style, I built it so that no matter which style you try to throw at me, it was going to give it a problem.
00:18:58.000And that was the basis that I wanted to create when I fought, every single time I fought somebody.
00:19:03.000It was, it doesn't matter what your gift is, the planes that I'm going to fight you on make it impossible for your gifts to be your gifts anymore.
00:19:10.000Now, I've seen you practice, and I've seen your footwork drills, and I've seen, you know, a lot of your steps and the different various entries you have to techniques.
00:19:52.000He's been in this sport 20-plus years.
00:19:56.000The bigger thing that Eric doesn't get credit for is his understanding of the psychology that goes into preparing somebody to win a fight.
00:20:03.000You could have all the tools around that person.
00:20:06.000They could be the best human being on earth.
00:20:08.000But if their mind is not pieced together, the psychological pieces are not there, you're not going to be able to trigger them and get them in the fight when you need to.
00:20:15.000Jeremy Stevens is a great example of somebody like that.
00:20:21.000Get crazy with that dude in the corner and even slap him around a little bit maybe and he just goes and he'll kill somebody.
00:20:27.000It's like there's a psychological thing about certain athletes that you have to be able to touch on.
00:20:32.000Same with Greg Jackson is another guy who can do that.
00:20:34.000And that's what makes a good coach on that night, a good corner man on that night.
00:20:38.000Not just what you did for eight weeks holding pads and patting the guy on the back and wiping the sweat off their shoulders and You know, doing interviews and looking famous with them.
00:20:49.000Like, what are you doing to make sure this person wins on that night?
00:20:52.000Not, what are you doing to make sure you look good in this person's corner while he wins?
00:20:57.000And that's something that I've run into a lot with people, is people a lot want to associate themselves with you when you're winning and not actually be there for you, but be there so they look good in your corner while you win.
00:21:08.000And those are the people you've got to cut out.
00:21:31.000There are not a lot of people you can trust in this industry these days, or in fighting in general, boxing or MMA, so it's hard.
00:21:38.000He knows his stuff, and he is underrated, and I think the fact that he doesn't toot his own horn, he doesn't get on these interviews, it does hurt him a little.
00:22:52.000It gives them a sense of purpose and a sense of worth.
00:22:55.000And that those types of people often time get very selfish and it's very difficult to find someone that you trust enough to let them all in and then once they do they're intensely connected.
00:23:10.000You know I mean the bonds that you have With people that you train with and people that you spar with on a regular basis or people that you've competed with and gone to places with, I don't think people that have never experienced such an intense competition will ever truly understand that kind of a bond that people share.
00:23:50.000I mean, without even knowing what they're made of, you'll know they're lying.
00:23:53.000But it's different when you fight somebody.
00:23:56.000You literally know what they're made of when you see the look in their eye.
00:24:00.000They say what they say and they do what they do and then they go and they fight and they don't say what they say and they don't do what they do.
00:24:07.000And that's what's so refreshing about it to me.
00:24:09.000Yeah, well, the psychological aspect of it, I mean, you know, who was it that said this, that fighting is 90% mental and the other 10% is in your head?
00:24:39.000They just are a fraction of who they really are.
00:24:43.000Well, just really break down and think about what happens to the ones that do make it and then have to deal with the media and the opinions.
00:24:52.000I really feel like athletes, the biggest hurdle is the fact that we're willing to actually just get up there and say we might win, we might lose.
00:25:11.000Deal with the media if you win for 10 years straight and then lose and then now you're the worst guy that's ever been seen in the sport or the worst female that's ever been seen in the sport.
00:25:32.000You lose a basketball game and people might think you're a fucking loser or a scrub, but it's nothing like the shit that I see fighters face online.
00:26:32.000Like, she was like, I gotta get back to fighting because it's the most important thing, and it's the thing that I can be best in the world at.
00:26:50.000We're all putting so much into this one thing and we think that that is our everything.
00:26:54.000When really, it sounds cheesy, but if you put all that energy towards loving yourself and not the fight career, the fight career will still be there just as heavy as it is.
00:27:49.000But for people that don't know what we're about to be talking about, you had one of the most horrific injury streaks in the sport, in your prime.
00:27:58.000You were considered to be one of the top pound-for-pound fighters in the world, and then you had a series of catastrophic injuries and surgeries.
00:28:05.000So for a lot of people listening to this podcast that aren't really hardcore MMA fans.
00:31:39.000And I trained, but in the logic that I was given with what I'm allowed to do, according to my physical therapist, Gavin McMillan, he would say, you can do this, this, and this.
00:34:57.000So I sit down and I go, alright, my knee's torn.
00:35:00.000And that was when I hit like a real bad rock bottom on that one.
00:35:04.000That was like, that one like, Oh my gosh.
00:35:07.000When I went to the MRI and got home, I literally like called my friend and I told him to come over and I just, I mean, I pretty much just drank as much of a bottle as I could because I was in pretty good shape at that point.
00:37:12.000I'm doing my Fox stuff now to make money.
00:37:14.000And then I'm trying to do my rehab five days a week because I have to come back and fight for the belt when I come back.
00:37:20.000That's another thing people don't equate is I was the champ, so I got to come back and fight for the belt when I come back after this injury.
00:37:25.000I don't just get to come back and fight somebody three rounds.
00:37:28.000I got to come back and fight five rounds.
00:37:39.000And that caused, I think, a lot of problems with me because I didn't have the mental capacity to deal with it at that point with all the things that I was doing.
00:38:02.000I have like a weird pinch in my groin.
00:38:04.000It turns out to be the exact same injury Daniel Cormier just pulled out of the fight for.
00:38:09.000It's the extensor tendon in your, or no, it's the, I forget the name of the, there's a tendon in your groin area that pulls and then you gotta just rest it.
00:39:42.000And I didn't want to pull out, obviously, naturally.
00:39:45.000So I ended up calling Dana, and it's one of the few phone calls I've ever had with Dana, unfortunately, and this is probably one of the times your members are telling them, I'm sorry, I gotta pull out.
00:39:54.000But I remember not wanting to have my manager call them.
00:39:57.000This goes back to how my mom put something in my head where you deal with this face-to-face or talking.
00:40:04.000So I called and I said, look, I don't want to do this, but I gotta pull out of this fight.
00:40:08.000If you got any doctors, you can have MRI me, whatever you want, but I'm telling you something's wrong with my leg.
00:41:50.000And that was something that I never allowed my brain to even go to, ever, until all these injuries hit me.
00:41:57.000And I would have never been able to unless I went through all that.
00:42:00.000That was literally all the stuff because I'm so stubborn and so...
00:42:05.000Just tough that I had to go through all that just to mentally say, okay, you might never do this again.
00:42:10.000It could have been after the first one I could have done that, but I didn't.
00:42:15.000When I did that, my health skyrocketed immediately.
00:42:20.000I just went to therapy every day knowing I was trying to get better, but I didn't care if I fought again or not.
00:42:24.000I focused all my energy in FOX and coaching the guys at Alliance Training Center to make them better and try to make the team better and feed off the thirst and the hunger that those guys had to be the champion that I still wanted to be.
00:42:39.000And I decided that if I focused on Fox, focused on the positive energy of these guys at the gym, kept my mind in the sport, my body will be there because my age is compliant with my body still.
00:42:55.000I'm still young enough that I'll be okay.
00:42:57.000So I just needed to get my mind wrapped around the sport, stay in it mentally, but understand that if I never have it again, that's okay too.
00:43:04.000And when I did that, it took away so much importance Off of needing to fight, have the title, as the person that I was, that it allowed me to open up and say, if you never fight again, you're still a great person.
00:43:30.000And I kept that mindset, kept focusing on the things that I could control instead of the things that I couldn't, like the fact that I wasn't competing yet.
00:43:38.000And as I did that, I got healthier and healthier, came back, fought Mizugaki.
00:45:13.000So you feel like that piece was a significant factor in your body recovering because the pressure and the stress and the anxiety all that was playing It was it was wrecking not just your mental state, but also your physical state 100% every piece of it.
00:45:30.000That's really interesting every piece of it and that's the biggest thing I learned is That is like it wasn't my physical body.
00:45:37.000It was my mind doing it to my physical body and So it was initially a physical injury, and then it was the cascade of psychological issues that came with the physical issue that led to more physical issues.
00:45:49.000It was the cascade of trying to figure out why I was so sad with all these things that I earned around me.
00:45:56.000I already had everything that I thought...
00:46:00.000When you grow up in a trailer like I did, and then you go to winning a GTR, the car you wanted since you were a kid, in a prize fight, and having a home that you bought with your own money that you never thought you'd be able to own a home in California because you live in a damn trailer park in Tucson, Arizona, it kind of makes you feel like Like,
00:46:23.000You know, like, you've done crazy great things.
00:46:26.000And you've, um, I, those were all just dreams to me and they happened so quick.
00:46:32.000Like, at 20, you know, I mean, I didn't get my house till later, but when I got those things, it's like, I really, I, why are you so, I was still sad is my point.
00:46:41.000Like, I was still, I had my depression that was hitting me.
00:46:44.000And that's, so many people in this world are dealing with depression.
00:46:47.000Like, it's a huge, catastrophic problem across the planet.
00:46:51.000And And I definitely, it's in my bloodline on both sides of my family.
00:46:58.000And it's something that everybody, not just myself, deals with on a daily basis, I think, in certain people's lives.
00:47:19.000And what I realized is I turned off all my emotional, spiritual, and mental issues with exercise to where I never, ever, ever dealt with them, ever.
00:48:06.000You're a piece of shit in your own mind without those things, without the beautiful girlfriend, without the beautiful house, without the nice cars, without the big money to show people.
00:48:21.000I lost sight that the whole reason we're fighting is it's a spiritual, emotional, physical, mental battle that helps you grow as an individual and as a human being.
00:48:30.000It's not just to have these things that you think will make you happy.
00:48:34.000You have to learn those things through the process.
00:48:36.000And I didn't know that until I was trapped in my own body.
00:48:39.000I literally felt like I was in a prison cell.
00:48:43.000We shouldn't be in our own body alone without people around us to keep us company and on a couch feeling like we're in a prison cell, should we?
00:49:42.000It's a mental floaty and it's okay because we all hit low parts.
00:49:48.000Low points in our life where it's unbearable.
00:49:50.000And you either allow it to continue to be unbearable and just deny it, or you deal with the task at hand and say, I'm a little low right now.
00:50:06.000It's like I just needed a little bit of a push.
00:50:08.000I needed to get through this and learn some things about my own My own mind and understand my own emotions and understand that I didn't need...
00:50:16.000All these things that I was thinking weren't real.
00:50:19.000It was me not being in control of my own emotions.
00:51:49.000Me attacking those challenges, coming back and winning and getting my belt back.
00:51:55.000Could only happen because I let go of control the things I couldn't control So you come back you fight Mitsugaki you put on the performance of your career just destroy him It was just a whirlwind wild crazy first-round stoppage Then what happens?
00:52:12.000Well That was a big deal for me because he'd never been stopped like that before, Mizugaki, at this point.
00:52:20.000At this point, he was on a five-fight win streak.
00:52:22.000He hadn't lost since the whole time I had been hurt.
00:55:42.000And I was onto something, and I know it now, and nobody can ever tell me anything different.
00:55:46.000It was just, I stopped right then and there.
00:55:50.000The day I blew my knee out, I didn't train again for nine months other than physical therapy.
00:55:55.000I didn't shadow box, I didn't do a push-up, I didn't do a sit-up, I didn't do a squat.
00:56:01.000I went in the gym occasionally, but because I had learned to let go of fighting from the first two injuries, I didn't go in there panicking trying to keep training because I needed it for my health anymore.
00:56:13.000I already learned that the way I find health...
00:56:17.000Is to not train, let my body completely heal, don't do anything, and focus on my mind.
00:56:22.000So I spent another nine months focusing on nothing but my mind.
00:56:27.000And my tactic was, your body's not working right now, so you gotta switch it over to the next weapon that you have, which is your mind.
00:56:33.000Your mind is the only other weapon you use besides your body on fight night.
00:56:37.000So if your body's not working, switch it over.
00:57:27.000And I was like, well, I've done nothing but rehab, and it's been nine months, so technically I'm cleared by the doctor.
00:57:32.000They know I'm cleared by the doctor because the UFC talks with the doctors 24-7 whether they admit it or not.
00:57:37.000So it's like, even if the doctor shouldn't tell the UFC, they're telling them everything.
00:57:41.000So they know exactly where I'm at in rehab, exactly where I'm at in therapy, to the T, and that's why they know when to call me and put the heat on me.
00:57:49.000So I'm out on the boat drinking some beers, trying to enjoy my life, And I get a call.
00:57:55.000We want to give you a title fight with TJ Dillshaw in the beginning of the year or whatever.
00:58:00.000At that point, I had 12 weeks when they called me to get ready for the fight.
00:58:05.000So three months, but zero training for nine months.
00:59:04.000It's a matter of just letting go and understanding that there's something in effect that's bigger than you here in the universe.
00:59:12.000And as soon as you can do that, You're going to be who you're going to be.
00:59:16.000And then when you are who you are because you're not worried about all these other things connected to it, you're your fullest self.
00:59:23.000And in being that, it allowed me to get ready for TJ because I wasn't thinking about, he's been fighting, you haven't, he's been this, you haven't that.
01:00:04.000I stop just physical therapy, which I was doing three times a week only, and I go to fight training.
01:00:13.000I start just my regiment, what I do for each camp.
01:00:17.000In doing that, going from off the couch, doing nothing, straight into a five-round title fight...
01:00:24.000That actually sparked what I now have, which is plantar fascia tendonitis in both my feet.
01:00:31.000And so it's because going from resting for a year or whatever, three years, and then going full bore on your feet, it tore all the fascia on the bottom of my feet because they weren't ready for the brunt of force that I was putting on them with my footwork and my movement and my sparring and my kickboxing and all that.
01:00:46.000It wasn't ready, so I tore all the fascia on the bottom of my feet.
01:00:48.000So I started feeling something weird on the bottom of my left foot in that camp.
01:00:53.000Simultaneously at the eight-week mark after I'd been training for 12, what, Four weeks I've been training for the TJ Dillashaw camp.
01:01:19.000He hit me one time and it was just under a minute long fight.
01:01:24.000And so the only wear and tear and callous, for lack of a better term, I have on my body is from the training camp before Mizugaki, which was only a three round camp.
01:01:37.000So I have no wear and tear on my body, no toughness.
01:02:34.000It's like one of those but it's a little smaller.
01:02:36.000And it just goes here, and then you put it on like a shirt, and the cables cross in the back, and then the whole front is kind of like squishy, but protecting you from squeezing in blunt force.
01:03:26.000So the reason I didn't shoot it right away is because you want to give it as much time as you can to heal before you shoot it to see if you can minimize the damage that you do with the cortisone.
01:04:05.000I can't do any strength and conditioning at all.
01:04:08.000Because we had to ditch those two things in order to focus on cardio and skill.
01:04:13.000Because we had to get my cardio and skill back and my timing and my reads back.
01:04:17.000More than I needed strength and conditioning.
01:04:20.000So because I'm coming back from so much, you actually have to just cut out what's not needed in the camps that you've had in the past and take what you can use.
01:04:28.000So what are you doing for cardio at this point?
01:04:30.000I have a sprint routine that I run that's solely mine that I got from a guy named Drew Fickett way back in the day.
01:05:59.000I had about a good solid four-week camp of sparring and wrestling, thank God, of live stuff.
01:06:05.000But other than that, the first 12 weeks was basically just getting into shape.
01:06:09.000So my whole camp was comprised of Mostly sprints, pad work, and about a month of sparring.
01:06:17.000I lost almost all rounds coming back because I was just so off from the year and not doing anything in my body, not being strong, and trying to get back in shape.
01:06:40.000Yeah, thank the good Lord above I won that title.
01:06:44.000It didn't really make sense, but it happened.
01:06:48.000And we didn't know that you had plantar fasciitis, so when you kept getting hit by leg kicks and your leg was giving out, I was thinking that your leg was giving out from the impact of the kicks.
01:10:34.000But I have a high arch, and so what that means is the arch, there's a fascia that holds everything in place, and the arch starts to fail, and that's what that needle feeling is.
01:10:42.000It's like it's the fascia on the bottom of your foot.
01:10:45.000Because I'm always on my toes, it just wasn't ready for the brunt from zero to hero, and then it kind of put a bunch of lesions in it, and now how do you heal those?
01:10:54.000Now, can you tape it with an orthotic underneath?
01:10:58.000No, because then you have orthotics stuck to the bottom of your feet while you're hopping around.
01:11:20.000I was actually thinking of getting some stem cells put in my elbows and my shoulders and my knees coming up, but for my feet, PRP and stem cell is all just, it's all just, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
01:11:35.000Anything you look at, if you Google plantar fat, they have no cure for it.
01:11:39.000It's a worldwide problem that there's no cure for.
01:11:43.000Where are you going to get the stem cell stuff done?
01:11:46.000Well, I've only talked to people about it, but I'd be more than happy to get with you on it.
01:11:50.000I'm sure you've got some hookups, because I need the best in the world, obviously.
01:11:53.000There's a guy in Vegas, Dr. Roddy McGee.
01:13:34.000He's in the era of Jon Jones, and he lost to Jon in his first fight, and he's also dealing with the fact that Jon, although I love Jon too, Jon's a fuck-up.
01:13:44.000And so he's gotta sort of be there while Jon keeps fucking up, and then a lot of it comes back to him.
01:13:49.000But that's where I look at DC and why I try to give him all the respect in the world I can, because I don't feel that people...
01:13:56.000Give enough respect to DC for the fact that he's not fucking up.
01:14:26.000I'll do a line of coke next time and then try to jump in there and see how I do and let's blow his knees out three times and then we'll see who's better.
01:14:48.000There's a way that John gets a hold of people that you could almost tell when he gets a hold of them that they really have never felt anything like that before.
01:14:58.000And you saw it with DC. DC, who's a supremely talented wrestler.
01:15:02.000One of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA. Period.
01:15:06.000Jon Jones got a hold of him, and you could see DC was like, oh, shit.
01:16:39.000And you also got to go back to the way Daniel Cormier handled rumble.
01:16:42.000He's the only guy that's been able to eat rumble shots, absorb them and come back and break them.
01:16:49.000Yeah, he ate that right hand and just hit his head on the floor, woke back up, and then went after it.
01:16:55.000And that's respectable, too, that I don't think fans or anybody can really understand what it takes to get slightly knocked out, stand back up, and want to keep going.
01:17:07.000That's a different level of understanding of this sport.
01:17:09.000As an athlete, when I watch a fighter go through that and keep their composure, move around, and deal with that problem, And then even if they lose but stay in the fight and go the distance and tough it out, like Diego Sench is a great example of that.
01:17:39.000We were talking about BJ Penn, one of the all-time greats.
01:17:42.000I can't remember a fight where BJ was losing, where he came back and won.
01:17:47.000Frankie Edgar, on the other hand, you can never count that motherfucker out, ever.
01:17:51.000Frankie Edgar, in the Grey Maynard fights, those two chaotic fights, was so close to being stopped in the first round, where Grey Maynard is putting it on him, and Frankie's going down and down again and stumbling around the octagon, and Grey keeps catching him,
01:18:53.000That's why I put Fedor over Kane as the best heavyweight of all time, although I still think I maintain that Kane, when he was at his best, as far as what I see him, what he was able to do to guys, and what I see from his performance inside the octagon,
01:19:08.000especially his cardio as a heavyweight, his clean technique, his wrestling, the pace he puts on guys, his chin, I don't think there's been ever anybody like Kane.
01:19:17.000I think Kane, when he was at his prime, was the best I've ever seen.
01:19:20.000I never got to see Fedor fight live, but I would say if you have to give an all-time great to a heavyweight, I kind of lean towards Fedor because he stayed on top longer, beat more guys longer.
01:20:17.000Well, he went and did some kickboxing, looked really good in kickboxing again, and then fought in Risen and won their heavyweight Grand Prix.
01:21:26.000They were just telling you, like, we want to have some fun.
01:21:28.000Yeah, but I remember even, because I was part of the sport in that era, and I'm so glad.
01:21:33.000I really am so glad I was part of the sport during that time.
01:21:36.000And I was just coming up, and I was like maybe 2-3-0 at this point.
01:21:40.000I can specifically remember a time having to make a decision at 21 years old.
01:21:45.000Do I want to be in the IFL? Do I want to go try out for the Ultimate Fighter?
01:21:50.000Or do I just keep working my three jobs, coaching wrestling, doing what I'm doing here in Tucson as a janitor, stay with my money, and just be patient and keep winning fights until I get there?
01:22:47.000Now I'm walking around 55, 60. But then at 20 years old, 42. You know, 142 pounds.
01:22:55.000Trying to eat everything I can in sight.
01:22:57.000And between that and 50, you know, 150. So I said, you're too small for that, I felt.
01:23:05.000If they lock you into that contract for two grand a month, they're going to throw you out there, you're going to lose twice, they're going to cut you, and then you didn't get any money and you lost.
01:23:11.000Now you've got two losses on your record because these guys are monsters.
01:24:55.000And I have three fights at 55. I have three fights at 45 if I remember right.
01:25:01.000Also Wow, so at the time when this was going on 2005 when you started out was right when Stephen Bonner and Forrest Griffin had that epic fight in the finals the ultimate fighter season one and it launched MMA Yeah, and that's what made me decide and that's when I'm going to school You see so I'm like alright this thing is this is the time if you're gonna do it Get in now and just see what you can do with it.
01:27:23.000So how are you telling me I'm doing something wrong right now?
01:27:25.000Well, one of the things you said about you, I've said, if you watch Dominic Cruz fight, I would tell you, don't fight like that.
01:27:33.000But look how goddamn good he is at it.
01:27:35.000So you can't say don't fight like that.
01:27:38.000Because he's not just like, the way you throw punches, the way you move and throw punches, and throw punches from odd angles, you could tell someone, if someone was like a very traditional, technical coach, you would say that is the wrong way to throw punches.
01:28:34.000Well, anybody can do it if they mimic your movements, and your movements aren't like Cirque du Soleil movements that you have to be physically gifted in order to pull off or work towards them for a hundred years.
01:28:44.000Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and break it down, but there are obviously movements that I'm doing, and they can be read.
01:28:49.000It took 30 rounds to figure out with the same camp for 10 years, but they figured it out.
01:29:05.000Benavidez twice, Faber twice, TJ Dillashaw, Charlie Valencia has fought with them.
01:29:10.000Scott Jorgensen trained with them before I fought him.
01:29:14.000Ian McCall trained with them for a tiny bit of time before I fought him.
01:29:18.000Essentially, every single person I've ever fought for the past 10 years has at some point been friends with Faber, trained with that camp because they were the little guy camp, while I said, why join them if you can beat them?
01:29:29.000And I just did it my own way and let them all hate me and train together.
01:29:35.000I needed to do things my way in order to build something different in a game that hadn't really caught up to the things that I was thinking about yet, in my opinion.
01:29:45.000It didn't make me the only one that was right in these things.
01:29:48.000It's just how I used the things that I used.
01:29:52.000But my whole mindset was, like I said, if I fight like them, I'm going to be like them and they're going to adjust to me like they adjust to everybody else.
01:30:01.000Now, going back to the early days when you sort of learned the style, we kind of got off this, but I really wanted to touch back on it.
01:30:07.000When you said that your style, no one had your style before.
01:30:28.000One, it all started with me fighting at 155 pounds weighing 142 pounds.
01:30:34.000That's where this whole mindset started.
01:30:36.000So it was, they're already twice as big as you, and on fight day, they're gonna be three times as big as you.
01:30:41.000So you better not get touched, you better not get grabbed, and you better not get hit at all.
01:30:45.000Don't let them touch you, because they're too big.
01:30:47.000If they take you down, your energy's gonna be zapped by the time you do get up, if you get up.
01:30:51.000And if they hit you, they're big and strong, and they're probably gonna put you out.
01:30:55.000So you have to use all that strength, all that size against them, and make it their weakness instead of their strength.
01:31:01.000And that's how I started, because I was so little.
01:31:04.000I said, alright, I need to focus on defense.
01:31:07.000Obviously, I've got to hurt them too, but after they do what they're trying to do with their big strength and be stronger and be more powerful and be more athletic, they're going to wear themselves out.
01:31:18.000Middle or round two, all those things that they had early, we're even now.
01:31:22.000Now I can just outthink them and pick them apart and beat them.
01:31:25.000I always had that mentality rather than Fight fire with fire.
01:31:30.000It just didn't make sense to me when my body was on the line.
01:31:33.000I wanted the path of least resistance.
01:31:35.000And so it started with that until I got to about 5-0, fought in total combat.
01:31:41.000I took that fight on two days notice, went out there with no coaches, no corner men, and went by myself, and they just picked random corner men and put them out there.
01:31:49.000That night was why Eric liked me, because he saw I took it at short notice, won it.
01:31:54.000It was a tough fight, but I had no corpsman.
01:31:56.000I came solo on a flight and just went.
01:31:59.000And so he's like, okay, I can work with this.
01:32:37.000I'd have guys that knew what they were doing, being pro boxers, pro high-level wrestlers, high-level blue belts at this time, and roll and wrestle and make my own team and my own coaches with the people that I had available, but I didn't have a head.
01:32:51.000And when I found Eric, I won that fight, found Eric, and he said, I'll coach you, I'll get you a manager, and I'll get all this figured out for you.
01:33:25.000When you came to him, you essentially were a smaller guy who was fighting bigger guys and had to be a little trickier in your movement.
01:33:33.000Where were you getting that stuff from?
01:33:35.000Well, now, when I meet Eric, I'm no longer the smaller guy fighting bigger guys because, well, a little bit, but 45 is now allowed.
01:33:44.000Now 145 pounds is just getting into these small shows, not just the WEC. So by the time I meet Eric at 6-0, I take that fight on two days notice at 145 pounds.
01:33:56.000But I was getting ready to fight at 155 in Colorado for a world title.
01:34:27.000Honestly, I had a couple things that I did naturally, and then Eric has a skill set where if you have a natural movement, he doesn't tell you to fix it.
01:34:38.000He lets you do it and then has you add a weapon to it.
01:35:02.000If you watch college, high school, like the highest level wrestlers, it's all fluent motion in both stances.
01:35:09.000So I made fighting that because I started out wrestling.
01:35:12.000And then I added the punches and the kicks to that motion.
01:35:15.000Instead of trying to change what I already did with my wrestling and try to make it this way, he just let me do what I did Up to 5-0 with my wrestling and whatever I taught myself, and then he just tightened it up and made it into a pro-level look to an extent.
01:35:31.000Speed, timing, range, these type of things.
01:35:35.000And now, do you have it now as a system?
01:35:54.000There's certain things that I was running into when I would spar early on starting that I came up with habits to deal with because of my wrestling and not having a coach that instead of the coach saying, no, do this, I just adjusted and found my own answers.
01:36:11.000And do you keep a training log of all these lessons that you learned?
01:37:13.000I can do both because where I put myself, I'm defensively in a, generally speaking, when I've been doing very well in my matchups, I put myself in the gray area where even if you do hit me, it's limited power and I'm still able to hit you more than you're able to hit me,
01:38:54.000Your core, toughening up your core, everything.
01:38:56.000Taking kicks, taking punches feels night and day different now.
01:38:59.000Even for the Cody fight, I felt great.
01:39:01.000I do look at that fight and I think, maybe I could have waited so I wouldn't overwork myself in that year with the training and stuff because...
01:39:13.000It's one thing to take three fights in a year, and it's another thing to take three title fights in a year.
01:39:48.000Like I said, I fought that camp how many times, man?
01:39:52.000Legitimately, if you had to break down, I mean, if you went back and looked at tape, you could probably break down 30 rounds with me in that camp.
01:40:01.000That means they have all those reads on me through the years.
01:40:04.000And then Cody started out watching me in junior high, high school.
01:40:07.000And then the way I look at it is he's the one guy who could implement it because he looked up to the guys that wanted to beat me as they are the shit.
01:42:02.000They gave them experience in the matter.
01:42:04.000And that's what the amateur system, you know, the amateur system is going to create a different level of up-and-comers now because they're not coming in as their record.
01:42:14.000They're coming in as two or three times their record if you count their amateurs.
01:42:17.000Yeah, that's always the thing that drives me crazy about people that jump right into the UFC. Like, I mean, not to pick on CM Punk, but the idea that CM Punk with no competition experience whatsoever is going to fight professionally in the biggest organization in the world.
01:43:11.000So I would think that if this guy really did want to do this and do it the right way, Get him to go through it the right way like everybody else would.
01:43:19.000Get him to start at small organizations.
01:44:23.000But wouldn't you think that once you're already wealthy, like CM Punk is, he's already a millionaire, wouldn't you want to do it correctly rather than go for the big cash grab that's going to wind up getting your face punched in?
01:44:35.000Like, if he was your friend, let's put it this way.
01:44:37.000If he was my friend, I know exactly what I'd tell him.
01:46:01.000And he felt like he was just going to ride that to a new career in the UFC. And I'm like, that's like saying you're just going to jump into NASCAR and you've never raced a car before.
01:47:23.000Is it his fault that he believed that he could do it to an extent?
01:47:27.000Does that make him that delusional that every man on earth thinks that they can go in there and fight and win?
01:47:31.000Or is it the UFC that says, yeah, we'll give you this much money and...
01:47:36.000Give you a pay-per-view and put you at the top of it, and let's see how much money you can generate.
01:47:42.000Well, it's a great move for the UFC. Right.
01:47:43.000Because the UFC is like, look, hey, we got this huge superstar, and we're going to send him in with this fresh-faced young whippersnapper who's a good fighter, who's got a really good mouth, great at talking, and he's going to fuck him up for sure.
01:48:32.000Depending on who you are, it's not offensive, but it's crazy how you start to realize in those scenarios that it doesn't matter how much time, skill, or purpose you put into this craft.
01:48:44.000It matters how famous you are or else you don't get paid.
01:49:30.000We're talking about somebody on a different level than CM Punk.
01:49:32.000Well, Ronda, when she was in her prime, Ronda, when she was beating all these women and when she was just flipping people in their head and arm barring them, people were paying to see not just this spectacular figure, but also this person who really knew how to fight.
01:49:51.000Well, also in the sport being really young, the female MMA being, it's gone through in just a few years, this fantastic metamorphosis where you're seeing women like Valentina Shevchenko, that is just an overall well-rounded, world-class mixed martial artist now.
01:50:08.000Girls like, you know, Rose Namajunas who are coming up.
01:50:10.000These MMA fighters that are coming up that are like super talented now and everyone's getting better.
01:50:16.000The young people coming into the game that have this really comprehensive MMA game, whereas before she was fighting people, no disrespect to her opponents, but they were limited.
01:50:36.000I guess it's just odd how you can look at somebody like Paige Van Zandt and the champ That if you really look at the breakdown of the weight class,
01:50:54.000Paige Van Zandt and The Champ are almost of equal value if you fight them to an extent because of views and who wants to see who fight.
01:51:03.000One was on Dancing with the Stars, became a big household name.
01:51:06.000Before Dancing with the Stars, she got Dancing with the Stars because of Before Dancing with the Stars, she was already on Dancing with the Stars.
01:51:12.000She's like a fucking beautiful cheerleader.
01:51:14.000That is the appeal that's making money, is my point.
01:51:21.000She's beaten some great girls in the division.
01:51:23.000But if we're talking about Young Jacek, who can fight, fight, fight, put her blood, sweat, tears, like you see it in her and everything about it.
01:51:33.000And then Paige Van Zandt, who is a good athlete and can fight, It's crazy the money levels that come to the same because one is just that famous and that camera...
01:51:46.000Perfect compared to the other one who's just that good at fighting, but she's not as good on the camera as the other one.
01:51:54.000And that's what's blowing my mind is watching that happen even though the skill set isn't even close to the same, they're gonna make the same money.
01:52:00.000Well, the really scary thing is when those matchups get made.
01:52:49.000Like, you remember those Mike Tyson fights where he would fight guys and you would just go, don't blink, because this shit is not going to last.
01:54:55.000And no matter what you told CM Punk, That it wasn't going to go that way because you were a 50-time world champion and you know what's going to happen.
01:56:57.000Very rare do people leave their ego at the door.
01:56:59.000They're keeping track of every submission that happens, every takedown, every punch.
01:57:03.000They're fixing their shin guards in the middle of the practice because they're getting tired and they don't want that one big kick to land or that one big takedown to land when they're tired.
01:57:12.000And then it hurts their brain because their psychology needs to stop all takedowns In order for their ego not to be hurt, it goes on and on and on and on.
01:57:21.000And ego is the biggest thing that I notice is the difference with men and women.
01:57:25.000Now, women have it too, but it's just a different feel when we got women in the room and men in the room and how they...
01:57:35.000Do you think that women are better at taking instruction from men and maybe not as good at taking it from women?
01:57:42.000Do you think that what's going on is that the women are conceding that these men are bigger and stronger and more experienced and so it's easier for them to do it but maybe they still have that ego against other women?
01:59:38.000Yeah, and his girl, they got, he was walking into the last fight with his kids with him and his girl, and he's kissing her while he's laughing at the, and it just, it blows my mind because everybody has their own systems, you know?
02:00:05.000So we're pretty much running out of time because you've got to head back to San Diego, but I wanted to get back to where you're at now as far as, like, recovery and what your thoughts are about resting and getting back to camp and when do you think your feet are going to be raring to go again and all your injuries.
02:00:22.000That's pretty much, that year just put a good brunt on my body, so I'm just, right now I'm just healing, and then those two are going to fight, I think, July, I don't know.
02:00:33.000I think it's the July 4th card, is that what it is?
02:00:35.000The July weekend, or I think it's the 7th or the 8th?
02:00:37.000I don't really know, but I don't know the exact date.
02:01:07.000And it's like, there's some things that I want to clarify that unless you're a professional fighter and you're in that zone, you don't really understand.
02:01:39.000Headbutt kick cut me right here in my eyebrow.
02:01:42.000I remember I got cut and I remember it started bleeding.
02:01:46.000It wasn't the blood that bothered me as much as the doctor.
02:01:51.000That's when, if you're me and I think about everything that's going on and I'm adjusting, it's like, alright, the doctor's in here, this cut is bad.
02:01:59.000I mean, the way they were talking to me, are you okay?
02:05:53.000Burning desire, if you don't have that in all times, then get out because you're going to get hurt.
02:05:58.000So how much time, so if we're talking with them fighting in July, we're talking right now, it is now February.
02:06:04.000So if they fight in July, then you're likely looking at somewhere around December, somewhere like that.
02:06:09.000Yeah, I mean, if I do one fight this year, okay, and go back and win my title, okay, and then defend it another three times in one year, okay.
02:06:18.000If I, you know, I mean, these guys are going to fight, there's going to be a winner, people want to see me fight them.
02:07:04.000I don't mind seeing what these gentlemen can do with it because I fought them both.
02:07:08.000And I know what it takes to be the best for a very long time, not just for one fight.
02:07:13.000And I'm not sure if they have what it takes yet, but I'm here and I like the challenge to find out and I like to challenge them again to find out.
02:07:21.000Dominic Cruz, it's been a pleasure, man.
02:07:23.000I really appreciate you coming down, man.