The Joe Rogan Experience - April 27, 2017


Joe Rogan Experience #952 - Thaddeus Russell


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 52 minutes

Words per Minute

194.61499

Word Count

33,490

Sentence Count

3,446

Misogynist Sentences

105

Hate Speech Sentences

141


Summary

In this episode, the boys talk about the joys of moving to a new state, the dark, and the fear of the dark. Also, we talk about how much we love living in Portland, Oregon, and how we would like to live there. We also talk about what we would do if we were stuck in the same place for the rest of the year, and we talk a little bit about being a girl in the dark and being afraid of it. We hope you enjoy this episode and that you enjoy listening to it with your friends and family. We love you guys and we appreciate you. See ya soon, bye. -The boys. -Joe and Thaddeus xoxo - and Joe and Thad XOXO - . And if you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review! if you liked this episode. We'll be looking out for new episodes next week! Thank you so much for all the love, support, and support! Love ya, bye! Joe, Joe, Thad, Joe and the boys. xoxoxo Thanks, Joe & the boys Thad & the gang. Xxoxo, :) - Joe & The boys - :D - Jake, Jake, :P - The boys - - Jake, Gino, , and the crew Jake and the gang , & the crew at . . Jake & the guys - , Jake, and everyone else Jack, - the boys at the podcast - Joe, Gage, and ( ) Joe and Jake, the guys at the coffee shop in Portland Oregon - & Jake, Jr. - and the rest at the cafe in the coffee place - and all the rest in the bar in the back of the restaurant in the park - and so much more! - Thank you all for listening to this podcast, and all of the good vibes, and so on and soooo much love, and hope you like it. , I hope you all have a great day, Jake and all that good vibing, so much love and love, etc. xo -p. and much more. -Merry Christmas, etc., -JUICY.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 I'm not interested.
00:00:00.000 Five.
00:00:03.000 Four.
00:00:04.000 Three.
00:00:05.000 Two.
00:00:05.000 One.
00:00:08.000 Yes!
00:00:09.000 We're live, Thaddeus Russell.
00:00:10.000 You're going no headphones.
00:00:12.000 You're radical.
00:00:13.000 Well, you knew that.
00:00:14.000 Dude, I'll take the headphones off with you.
00:00:16.000 I don't give a fuck.
00:00:17.000 Let's go.
00:00:17.000 Bring it.
00:00:18.000 It's on.
00:00:20.000 I feel better.
00:00:21.000 I feel liberated.
00:00:22.000 I know what the real sound is.
00:00:24.000 Dude, you look slim and healthy.
00:00:25.000 What have you been doing?
00:00:26.000 Thank you.
00:00:26.000 I got back in the gym and I'm doing boxing and kickboxing still.
00:00:31.000 You look active.
00:00:32.000 Yeah.
00:00:32.000 Well, you know, I'm in Oregon a lot, so the meth is awesome up there.
00:00:35.000 Oh, they do have good speed.
00:00:37.000 It's great for weight control.
00:00:39.000 I would think that Oregon would be more of like a calm down type of state as far as drugs.
00:00:44.000 I was just there for 420. I know.
00:00:45.000 Yeah, I emailed you.
00:00:46.000 Yeah.
00:00:47.000 I love it up there, man.
00:00:48.000 I love it.
00:00:49.000 I would live there.
00:00:50.000 The winter is so goddamn depressing, but I would still do it.
00:00:54.000 Yeah.
00:00:54.000 This winter has been just ridiculous.
00:00:56.000 It's rained for nine months straight.
00:00:58.000 There were like 500 inches in my county this winter.
00:01:02.000 But beautiful green.
00:01:04.000 Oh God, it's so lush.
00:01:05.000 When you get out of the PDX airport, you smell pine trees.
00:01:09.000 As soon as you walk out of the airport.
00:01:10.000 Yeah.
00:01:10.000 I mean, it's amazing.
00:01:11.000 And after being in L.A., which is just basically like this giant desiccated turd, I mean, it's like, it's so nice.
00:01:17.000 Yeah, that would be like the best place to live.
00:01:19.000 Like, if you had a place there and a place here, you go back and forth.
00:01:23.000 You deal with total dry and total wet.
00:01:25.000 That's what I'm doing.
00:01:25.000 It'll kind of balance itself.
00:01:26.000 I think you nailed it, Mr. Russell.
00:01:28.000 Thank you.
00:01:28.000 I think you've nailed it.
00:01:29.000 I'm commuting every week, and people say, don't you get sick of this?
00:01:32.000 I actually love it so far.
00:01:33.000 So far, yeah.
00:01:34.000 So my son is here.
00:01:36.000 He goes to school here.
00:01:36.000 In fact, he goes to school right near where we're sitting.
00:01:39.000 And so I have an apartment here and then a house in Salem, Oregon, and I love it.
00:01:44.000 It's great.
00:01:44.000 Going back and forth.
00:01:45.000 I'm kind of like a shark.
00:01:47.000 I need to keep moving.
00:01:48.000 I feel claustrophobic and like the world is passing me by if I'm sitting in one place too long.
00:01:53.000 Have you always been like that?
00:01:55.000 I'm digging it.
00:01:55.000 Yeah, always.
00:01:56.000 I always need to be doing something and moving.
00:01:59.000 I am literally claustrophobic.
00:02:01.000 Yeah?
00:02:01.000 Yeah.
00:02:02.000 Have you ever done an isolation take?
00:02:04.000 Oh my God.
00:02:05.000 Can't do it?
00:02:05.000 When you talk about that, I'm like- You freak out?
00:02:07.000 That's my worst nightmare.
00:02:08.000 Whoa.
00:02:08.000 And I'm also a little bit afraid of the dark.
00:02:12.000 I knew you were going to laugh at that.
00:02:15.000 You're going to call me a girl again?
00:02:16.000 No!
00:02:18.000 There's nothing wrong with being a girl, by the way.
00:02:20.000 How dare you?
00:02:20.000 We'll get into that, Joe.
00:02:22.000 We'll get into that.
00:02:24.000 No, I mean, like, pitch black.
00:02:26.000 That freaks me out.
00:02:27.000 Really?
00:02:28.000 When you can't see anything, I can't stand that.
00:02:30.000 I don't mind a very dark room, as long as I can see something.
00:02:33.000 But if it's pitch black, I freak the fuck out.
00:02:35.000 You know what freaks me out?
00:02:36.000 Night vision goggles.
00:02:38.000 Well, that's what I want, right?
00:02:39.000 Then I'm cool.
00:02:39.000 No, they just seem so weird.
00:02:41.000 You put them on, you feel like you're in a horror movie.
00:02:44.000 Or you're in one of those scenes in one of those stupid Ghostbuster shows where they're down in the basement and they always have night vision on.
00:02:49.000 Yeah.
00:02:49.000 Have you tried them on?
00:02:50.000 Yes.
00:02:51.000 Yeah, I have some.
00:02:52.000 Of course you do.
00:02:53.000 Of course you do.
00:02:55.000 For, like, nighttime boar hunting or whatever it is you do.
00:02:58.000 That is one of the reasons why they use them.
00:02:59.000 Yeah, but actually, for them, it's scopes.
00:03:02.000 They have night vision scopes where you see the infrared version of the pigs moving around.
00:03:06.000 It's very weird to look through them.
00:03:08.000 But people often mistake other things for pigs, like deer and dogs.
00:03:11.000 I like that idea.
00:03:12.000 I haven't tried them on, but I like that idea.
00:03:14.000 So, spelunking is definitely out for me.
00:03:17.000 Claustrophobic and afraid of the dark.
00:03:19.000 What is spelunking again?
00:03:20.000 Caving.
00:03:21.000 Oh, yeah.
00:03:22.000 The idea of being in a tight, one of those tight little caves you have to squeeze your body through in the pitch dark and then your headlamp goes out.
00:03:28.000 I was just listening to a podcast about this family that owns a ranch in Texas and they had these small caves that these kids would explore in.
00:03:38.000 And then they allowed some cavers, some local cave explorers, to go and check it out.
00:03:44.000 And they crawled through this really small three-foot diameter hole, literally crawled through it, and found two football field-sized caves inside, and then found out that there's literally miles of cave systems inside.
00:04:01.000 Oh, yeah.
00:04:01.000 No, it's incredible.
00:04:02.000 I wish I weren't terrified of it.
00:04:04.000 Because I love all that other stuff in the outdoors, you know, backpacking and camping and hiking.
00:04:08.000 I do all that.
00:04:09.000 I love it.
00:04:09.000 But going underground is the worst thing.
00:04:12.000 Do you only backpack and camp when it's a full moon?
00:04:17.000 Uh, no.
00:04:19.000 I'm cool with the stars.
00:04:20.000 That's good enough.
00:04:20.000 Good enough?
00:04:21.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:21.000 Headlamps?
00:04:22.000 Like I said, only pitch black when you can't see your hand in front of your face.
00:04:26.000 That freaks me out.
00:04:26.000 And I don't understand why other people don't freak out about that.
00:04:29.000 Like, I'll wake up in a hotel room and I forgot to, or there's no light at all on for whatever reason, I'll freak out because I don't know where I am.
00:04:37.000 See, look what I'm already admitting to millions of people.
00:04:40.000 I just got here, man.
00:04:41.000 It's okay, man.
00:04:41.000 I'm already like a girl.
00:04:43.000 You're opening up.
00:04:44.000 You're opening up.
00:04:44.000 You keep saying girl as if it's like a weak thing.
00:04:47.000 It's very problematic.
00:04:47.000 That scarred me the first time I was here.
00:04:49.000 You called me a girl.
00:04:49.000 It stuck with me.
00:04:50.000 I'm sorry.
00:04:51.000 I don't even remember doing it.
00:04:52.000 No, you just said you sounded like a girl just then.
00:04:54.000 Really?
00:04:54.000 What did I say about it?
00:04:56.000 I can't remember.
00:04:56.000 I can't remember.
00:04:57.000 It's probably something really good.
00:04:58.000 Pretty girlish.
00:04:59.000 Pretty...
00:05:01.000 So, up in Portland, the Portland area, what are you doing up there?
00:05:05.000 You're teaching, right?
00:05:06.000 So, my girlfriend, who I live with, is a vice president at Willamette University.
00:05:10.000 And I teach part-time, just for the hell of it, at Willamette.
00:05:13.000 But mostly I'm developing all these other things.
00:05:15.000 And I'm mostly just enjoying Oregon.
00:05:18.000 Because, man, you can afford a hell of a house in Salem, Oregon, for what you were paying in L.A., let me tell you.
00:05:24.000 So we're just living a lot better.
00:05:25.000 First time in my life I've been in a house that I enjoyed being in.
00:05:29.000 Oh, that's nice.
00:05:30.000 Yeah, and so it's great, and it's given me a base to do these projects, my new podcast, and Renegade University, and write my book.
00:05:38.000 It's great.
00:05:39.000 I have my own studio in the house, and I have my own office in the house, so it's kind of the command center up there.
00:05:45.000 Nice, nice.
00:05:46.000 Yeah, so it's been pretty awesome lately.
00:05:49.000 I think it's fascinating how some places, like some cities, have like a mindset.
00:05:54.000 There's like a feel that you get from the city.
00:05:56.000 And I like the feel that you get from Portland.
00:05:59.000 I mean, it's like a, it's a aware city.
00:06:01.000 You know, and it's not a dumb city, but it's a small city.
00:06:05.000 They're aware.
00:06:06.000 You mean like woke?
00:06:07.000 They're woke?
00:06:07.000 They're woke as fuck.
00:06:09.000 Yeah, but it's like a white, it's like a white woke.
00:06:11.000 White woke.
00:06:11.000 Whatever white woke is.
00:06:12.000 They're a little pretentious.
00:06:14.000 I think somewhere along the line, Portland became a place that pretentious people gravitated to because they wanted to identify, like, I'm white and I have dreadlocks.
00:06:23.000 Here I am.
00:06:23.000 Right.
00:06:23.000 You know what I mean?
00:06:24.000 But they make really good food.
00:06:25.000 Those pretentious people?
00:06:27.000 Their food carts are out of them.
00:06:28.000 And coffee?
00:06:28.000 Yes.
00:06:29.000 Yeah.
00:06:29.000 They make great food and those food trucks are out of this world.
00:06:32.000 Totally.
00:06:33.000 Totally.
00:06:33.000 Portland is a great city.
00:06:34.000 Except, have you noticed they hid all the black people?
00:06:37.000 There's four or five of them.
00:06:38.000 I've only seen three so far.
00:06:40.000 They track them, like mountain lions.
00:06:42.000 I keep waiting to come across the cage where they keep them in one corner of the city, because then it's amazing, especially in the core of Portland, the main part.
00:06:50.000 You do not see any black people.
00:06:52.000 You don't see Mexicans.
00:06:53.000 You don't see Japanese people.
00:06:54.000 It is just white people, dudes with beards.
00:06:56.000 That's like a Pacific Northwest selling coffee.
00:06:59.000 You definitely see more black people in Seattle.
00:07:02.000 Seattle is pretty diverse.
00:07:05.000 Not fully, but a lot of Asian folks.
00:07:08.000 Portland?
00:07:09.000 Not even Latinos and Asians.
00:07:12.000 I'm like, how do you do that on the West Coast?
00:07:14.000 Where do you put all those people if you're on the West Coast?
00:07:16.000 They just pass by.
00:07:17.000 They just go, let's keep going.
00:07:18.000 Vancouver's right up the street.
00:07:20.000 Let's just keep going.
00:07:21.000 Hey, you, you took a wrong turn.
00:07:23.000 Keep going.
00:07:23.000 Just keep walking.
00:07:24.000 Let's just keep going.
00:07:24.000 Go north.
00:07:25.000 Yeah, it's like, it's a small city.
00:07:28.000 I mean, I don't think Portland has more than a million people, right?
00:07:31.000 Does it?
00:07:32.000 Nah, I think it's like half a million.
00:07:34.000 Is it really?
00:07:34.000 I think something like that.
00:07:36.000 Yeah, it's small.
00:07:36.000 No, it...
00:07:38.000 The lack of diversity actually is the only problem I have with it.
00:07:41.000 And it's a fairly big problem.
00:07:42.000 That's an issue.
00:07:43.000 But otherwise, it's the best city in America.
00:07:45.000 Really?
00:07:46.000 I think.
00:07:46.000 Really?
00:07:46.000 It's my favorite city in America.
00:07:48.000 Yeah, I should say.
00:07:49.000 It's pretty goddamn good.
00:07:50.000 Lawrence Krauss lives there.
00:07:51.000 Oh, yeah?
00:07:51.000 So there you go.
00:07:52.000 Yeah.
00:07:52.000 There's two of us.
00:07:53.000 Two cool people.
00:07:55.000 Two cool smart people.
00:07:56.000 I don't live in Portland, right?
00:07:57.000 I live in Salem, which is an hour south.
00:07:58.000 But we're still in Portland a lot, so it's kind of...
00:08:00.000 Is that because of the University of Willamette?
00:08:02.000 Yeah.
00:08:02.000 And because it's way cheaper to live there.
00:08:05.000 And it's also really beautifully centrally located.
00:08:08.000 So we're an hour and 10 minutes from the coast, which is gorgeous.
00:08:11.000 Have you been to the Oregon coast?
00:08:12.000 Yes.
00:08:13.000 Amazing.
00:08:14.000 And then we're an hour and a quarter from the Cascade Mountains on the other side.
00:08:17.000 And then all around Salem is the Willamette Valley, which is like Napa Valley and Sonoma County meet Vermont.
00:08:24.000 It is so beautiful.
00:08:26.000 Just incredibly beautiful farmland all around there.
00:08:29.000 They make a lot of wine up there, too.
00:08:30.000 Incredible wine.
00:08:31.000 The Pinot Noir is the best in the world.
00:08:33.000 Yeah, but it's really pretty just driving through there.
00:08:35.000 So, man, it's...
00:08:36.000 Yeah, I'm telling you.
00:08:38.000 Also, Salem has Mexicans, so we do have a little diversity.
00:08:41.000 Oh, really?
00:08:41.000 Because of all the farm workers.
00:08:42.000 Oh, that makes sense.
00:08:43.000 There's a...
00:08:44.000 Substantial population of Latinos.
00:08:46.000 Do you have legit Mexican food in Salem?
00:08:50.000 We're working on it.
00:08:52.000 We're working on it.
00:08:53.000 I mean, Salem has been like a dumpy town for a long, long time until just recently.
00:08:57.000 And now it's starting to pick up.
00:08:59.000 We've got some stuff going on.
00:09:00.000 And now we've got a good MMA gym there and a boxing gym just opened.
00:09:05.000 In Salem?
00:09:06.000 Legitimate.
00:09:06.000 Yeah, like Team Quest people, former Team Quest people.
00:09:09.000 What was the trainers?
00:09:10.000 Nick Gilardi.
00:09:11.000 He actually came up with Chael and Randy Couture.
00:09:14.000 He was trained as a wrestler by them when they were doing wrestling only, when he was a kid.
00:09:19.000 And then he became a champion wrestler, and then they went into fighting.
00:09:21.000 And he was like, okay, I'll do that with you.
00:09:23.000 And he's a major sort of Northwest MMA fighter.
00:09:26.000 Now he's like coach of the year in the Northwest.
00:09:29.000 Oh, great.
00:09:29.000 He's my coach.
00:09:30.000 We have a little—it's really good, MMA gym in— In Salem called Impact.
00:09:34.000 That's awesome.
00:09:35.000 Impact Jiu Jitsu.
00:09:36.000 So your knee is, we were talking about this before the podcast, your knee feels like...
00:09:40.000 It's good enough.
00:09:41.000 I really would love to start grappling.
00:09:42.000 I never have.
00:09:43.000 And I'm scared of it because of all the, especially the takedowns and the leg locks and all that.
00:09:49.000 Right.
00:09:49.000 So I don't know.
00:09:51.000 But I'm still doing just stand-up boxing and Muay Thai kickboxing.
00:09:55.000 Have you ever done any yoga?
00:09:58.000 Yes.
00:09:59.000 Yes, it's great for me.
00:10:01.000 Do you do it now?
00:10:01.000 I don't know if it's going to help my knee.
00:10:03.000 It will definitely help your knee.
00:10:04.000 I guess so.
00:10:04.000 I mean, stretching it helps.
00:10:05.000 Just strengthening.
00:10:06.000 And strengthening.
00:10:06.000 Yeah, I mean, just holding static positions, like static yoga positions, for your back and for your knees and your feet.
00:10:13.000 Totally.
00:10:14.000 I'm a broken record with this shit, so I'll stop right here.
00:10:16.000 No, I love it.
00:10:16.000 People listening to this podcast are like, Jesus, he's going to fucking talk about yoga again!
00:10:21.000 I love it, yeah.
00:10:22.000 So we don't have to talk about that anymore.
00:10:24.000 No, no.
00:10:24.000 I'm all about that.
00:10:25.000 Why are you drinking Gatorade, man?
00:10:26.000 Because I'm a...
00:10:27.000 This is not good for you.
00:10:28.000 It's got sugar in it.
00:10:29.000 This is terrible for you.
00:10:30.000 You might as well be drinking it.
00:10:31.000 Because I get dry mouth around you.
00:10:33.000 You scare me.
00:10:33.000 I'm sorry.
00:10:34.000 I'm just kidding.
00:10:34.000 You're scared of the dark.
00:10:35.000 You're scared of memes.
00:10:35.000 I'm scared of a lot of shit.
00:10:36.000 You're scary.
00:10:37.000 Look at you.
00:10:38.000 Mr. Muscles.
00:10:40.000 Listen, now that you're all leaned out, you're scared of muscle people?
00:10:43.000 Yeah, no.
00:10:44.000 So Salem's, it's an interesting place.
00:10:46.000 It's a truly sort of like, it's Trump country.
00:10:49.000 It's like the heart of Trump country.
00:10:52.000 It's dudes with beards who are not hipsters, who drive pickup trucks for real and have a lot of guns.
00:11:00.000 Right.
00:11:02.000 They don't give a fuck, basically.
00:11:03.000 And it's not really a socially conservative place.
00:11:08.000 It's more of a kind of a libertarian thing.
00:11:10.000 It's basically, this is my land, don't mess with me.
00:11:13.000 Well, Trump was the libertarian option.
00:11:16.000 Kind of.
00:11:17.000 Most libertarians hated him.
00:11:19.000 Well, they would be better off with someone who's an actual libertarian, like Ron Paul-type character.
00:11:27.000 He's the only reason libertarians were attracted.
00:11:29.000 Well, there's two reasons.
00:11:30.000 But the main one was that they were attracted to him because during the campaign, at least, he was saying things that sounded like he was a non interventionist in foreign policy.
00:11:39.000 Right.
00:11:49.000 And in the last 30 minutes of his speech, he would sound like an old Republican about how he wanted to bomb the shit out of people.
00:11:54.000 So, who knows?
00:11:55.000 But now, of course, I think what's happened is that the generals have taken over.
00:11:59.000 I think the establishment has just taken over.
00:12:01.000 Well, it seems like there's no way one person can run every single facet of being the president.
00:12:07.000 And especially not him.
00:12:08.000 Yeah.
00:12:09.000 And he's got a hundred different businesses worldwide that are constantly ongoing right now.
00:12:13.000 Well, he doesn't know anything about the world.
00:12:15.000 So, of course, he's going to rely on experts.
00:12:17.000 And he also, we all knew this all along, he loves generals.
00:12:19.000 He loves that thing.
00:12:21.000 And it's pretty clear that Mattis came in there and just...
00:12:24.000 Mm-hmm.
00:12:25.000 Took over his mind, and he said, okay, yeah, I guess I was right about all that shit.
00:12:29.000 Let's go kill some people.
00:12:30.000 Well, he's essentially said, I'm going to get out of their way and let the military do their job.
00:12:35.000 Right, exactly.
00:12:36.000 And, like, I know guys that are, like, re-enlisting because they're pumped.
00:12:39.000 Wow.
00:12:39.000 They think that the military, like Tim Kennedy, a UFC fighter.
00:12:42.000 He's re-enlisted?
00:12:43.000 Re-enlisted because he believes that the UFC, or the UFC, he believes that the military now has the backing and the support from the president and that this is going to be great and they can do their job now.
00:12:54.000 Does Tim Kennedy want to serve in combat?
00:12:57.000 Does he really want?
00:12:58.000 Yes.
00:12:58.000 Really?
00:12:59.000 He wants to go kill and possibly die.
00:13:02.000 Oh, yeah.
00:13:03.000 He's doing that right now.
00:13:04.000 Because he believes in the cause.
00:13:05.000 He's back over there.
00:13:06.000 100%.
00:13:07.000 Yeah.
00:13:07.000 Where?
00:13:08.000 Which part?
00:13:08.000 You haven't talked to him about it.
00:13:09.000 ISIS? What does he want to do?
00:13:11.000 Yes, he wants to kill ISIS. He's about ISIS. Oh, dude, he gives his address out to ISIS. Puts his address on the internet and says, fuck ISIS. Come get me.
00:13:17.000 I'd love to talk to Tim Kennedy.
00:13:19.000 Yeah, it's a long conversation, though.
00:13:21.000 I bet.
00:13:21.000 You would want six hours.
00:13:23.000 That's fine.
00:13:23.000 I'll do it.
00:13:24.000 You would want to take pee breaks and drink water and just get into this from top to bottom.
00:13:29.000 I would love to.
00:13:29.000 Because you don't want the smoothed-out CNN seven-minute presentation in between two talking heads on either side.
00:13:35.000 You don't want that.
00:13:36.000 You want the long-form, who is Tim Kennedy and why does Tim Kennedy feel this way and military experience.
00:13:43.000 That's what I'm doing.
00:13:43.000 That's my podcast.
00:13:44.000 Exactly.
00:13:44.000 There you go.
00:13:45.000 Unregistered podcast.
00:13:45.000 That's what we do.
00:13:46.000 And it's kind of a...
00:13:48.000 Yeah, that's precisely what we do.
00:13:49.000 I'm interested in people's personal histories and how it's connected to their current ideas, right?
00:13:54.000 The roots of their political ideas, where do they come from?
00:13:57.000 So it requires people who are self-aware about themselves, and a lot of people aren't.
00:14:02.000 But so far, my guests are people who really have a sense of the connections between what happened in their childhood and their early development.
00:14:09.000 And what they're thinking now.
00:14:11.000 It's a really interesting thing if you can get people to do that, to connect those things, to weave them together.
00:14:16.000 So, I mean, Tim Kennedy might know where his ideas about serving in the military come from, other than, you know, my dad did it or whatever it was.
00:14:25.000 But that's what I'm interested in doing.
00:14:27.000 And this form, like what you're doing here, the long form, I love it.
00:14:30.000 It's so much better.
00:14:32.000 I think this is why I've...
00:14:33.000 You know, a lot of people who know me, I'd say most of the people who know me, know me from my podcast appearances here and elsewhere.
00:14:38.000 I've been on a lot of podcasts.
00:14:40.000 And I just, I'm just more comfortable with it.
00:14:42.000 I just think it's the best way to go.
00:14:44.000 I hate being on cable news where it's like, you know, two minutes or 30 seconds and get this complicated idea out right then.
00:14:50.000 And that's it.
00:14:51.000 And even radio.
00:14:52.000 I've done a lot of radio, which just sucks.
00:14:53.000 You know, it's the same thing.
00:14:54.000 20 seconds, soundbites.
00:14:56.000 Even 20-minute interviews I always find frustrating, either as an interviewer or as a guest.
00:15:02.000 Even hour-long interviews.
00:15:03.000 Oh, totally.
00:15:04.000 I did an interview with Ron Miscavige.
00:15:06.000 He's the father of David Miscavige.
00:15:09.000 And we only did an hour and a half.
00:15:10.000 And I was like, man, if we did like three or four hours, I'd probably get deeper and deeper into this dude and find out...
00:15:17.000 Yeah, that's what you do.
00:15:18.000 I mean, so you go kind of, you're always going in and out of people's personal histories and their psychology and then into their ideas and into big abstract stuff and then history and philosophy and science, right?
00:15:26.000 You're going in and always back and forth and in and out, connecting those things, weaving them together.
00:15:31.000 I love that.
00:15:32.000 I think it's the only way to go.
00:15:33.000 You get the deepest understanding of people.
00:15:35.000 And it sort of makes it impossible to do what most people do, which is just put people in a little box and throw them away.
00:15:41.000 Right.
00:15:41.000 Right.
00:15:41.000 Dismiss them.
00:15:42.000 Oh, he's a libertarian.
00:15:43.000 Oh, he's a socialist.
00:15:44.000 Oh, he's a whatever.
00:15:45.000 Gone.
00:15:46.000 Right.
00:15:47.000 So, you know, he's Joe Rogan.
00:15:49.000 Oh, he's the UFC guy.
00:15:51.000 Gone.
00:15:51.000 Right.
00:15:52.000 I'm sure people do that to you all the time.
00:15:53.000 Or he's Joe Rogan, the masculine, macho dude.
00:15:56.000 Not interested.
00:15:57.000 Bye.
00:15:57.000 Right.
00:15:58.000 Everyone's so complex.
00:16:00.000 Most people are.
00:16:01.000 And most people are not the same person who they were if you're pulling a quote from them from two years ago or five years ago or whatever.
00:16:07.000 Oh, exactly.
00:16:07.000 They're just not that person anymore.
00:16:08.000 Everybody evolves.
00:16:10.000 Exactly.
00:16:10.000 And you can box someone into some sort of a corner by like...
00:16:14.000 Not to defend him, but the grab-em-by-the-pussy speech from 2005. Great example.
00:16:20.000 You're boxing a guy in a corner who's trying to make another guy laugh on a bus, and he's just being gross.
00:16:25.000 Great example.
00:16:26.000 And then you take that and go, is this the guy you want for president?
00:16:28.000 Right.
00:16:29.000 Yeah, we could talk about that a lot.
00:16:30.000 I mean, I'm with you on that one.
00:16:32.000 I heard you talking about that the other day.
00:16:34.000 Yeah, Trump, I have a lot to say about that.
00:16:36.000 But it's...
00:16:39.000 So anyway, I think the podcasting thing, it's changing the game and it's so great.
00:16:44.000 Well, it gives people something to do while they're doing other stuff.
00:16:47.000 Totally.
00:16:47.000 I think we're like 90% audio only downloads versus YouTube somewhere around.
00:16:54.000 So most people are either listening during their commute or while they're at the gym or a lot of people even at work.
00:17:00.000 They put on headphones while they're doing mindless bullshit.
00:17:03.000 But I think what it does is it humanizes people.
00:17:06.000 Yeah.
00:17:07.000 Right?
00:17:08.000 Not the full humanity of a person, of course, but you get much more of who they are really and the complexities of them.
00:17:15.000 And so people talk about how we are all being siloed now because of the internet, right?
00:17:19.000 That we just go to the websites that agree with us.
00:17:22.000 There's a lot of that for sure.
00:17:23.000 Certainly.
00:17:24.000 But I actually think the overall effect is just the opposite.
00:17:27.000 I actually think that we have much deeper understandings of people who are not like us because of things like this, right?
00:17:33.000 I mean...
00:17:34.000 Because of the podcasts and because there's just much more exposure to people's ideas and personalities.
00:17:40.000 And there's more people talking in public, by the way.
00:17:42.000 I mean, just imagine that, right?
00:17:43.000 Like in the 1970s and 1980s, when you and I were growing up, there were three broadcast networks that all said the same thing on the news shows.
00:17:51.000 There were three that all said the same thing because the FCC wouldn't allow any competitors to come into the market.
00:17:56.000 I mean, they just wouldn't allow it.
00:17:58.000 And Rupert Murdoch broke that open, right?
00:18:01.000 And then since then, it's just been flooded.
00:18:02.000 So now we have how many channels, how many networks, and now podcasts.
00:18:06.000 So when I was coming up as an academic in the 90s, if your book didn't get reviewed in the New York Times, or if you were an author of any kind, and your book didn't get reviewed in the New York Times, you were not going to make a living as a writer.
00:18:21.000 That was it.
00:18:22.000 You had to get reviewed in the New York Times, and it had to be a positive review.
00:18:25.000 That was the only gatekeeper to success as an author.
00:18:28.000 Now, the New York Times is one of, you know, a hundred different places or a thousand different places that matter when you're writing books.
00:18:36.000 My book, Renegade History of the United States, was ignored entirely by the New York Times, and I know why, but it didn't really matter.
00:18:43.000 Why?
00:18:44.000 Oh, because it says all the things you're not supposed to say if you're a good liberal, left liberal, bi-coastal elite person from university.
00:18:52.000 Like?
00:18:52.000 Like Martin Luther King was a conservative and hated black culture.
00:18:58.000 Did he really?
00:18:59.000 Yeah.
00:19:00.000 Yeah, he was a very conservative person culturally, and he was basically an opponent of black culture.
00:19:07.000 He was opposed to rock and roll.
00:19:08.000 He didn't even mention jazz until late into his career, and only once he thought black people should sing classical music, European classical music, or gospel.
00:19:19.000 You know, very respectable, very Christian, very good citizen kind of stuff.
00:19:24.000 And he hated the flamboyant black preachers who were Whooping and hollering in their churches and speaking in black dialect.
00:19:31.000 He wanted all black people to speak correct American English.
00:19:37.000 He was opposed to a lot of dancing that was going on.
00:19:41.000 Just all the stuff that we love in black culture, Martin Luther King was opposed to.
00:19:46.000 It wasn't because he was just an uptight puritanical prick.
00:19:49.000 It was because of his strategy and his objective, which was to seek full citizenship, right?
00:19:54.000 And he understood, right?
00:19:56.000 In a way, it wasn't his fault entirely.
00:19:58.000 You have to prove yourself always in this country, historically, that you are just like white people to get all the good stuff, to get the vote, to get equal protection under the law.
00:20:08.000 So that's what his mission was.
00:20:10.000 Assimilation.
00:20:11.000 Assimilation has always been the ticket to full citizenship.
00:20:14.000 Man, it's just...
00:20:16.000 It sucks that that's even a thought, that the only way to achieve quote-unquote full citizenship is to ignore all the things that make black culture special, like comedy, like jazz, like rap, like just slang,
00:20:33.000 just all the cool shit that black people have figured out, like the things to say that white people have ruined, like bro.
00:20:41.000 Bro used to be like a cool thing that black people say to each other, and now it's like an insult for a dummy, like a frat dummy's a bro now.
00:20:49.000 Well, just think about America now if black people had never been here.
00:20:54.000 What would it be like?
00:20:56.000 I'm not sure I'd want to live here.
00:20:57.000 We wouldn't even have blues.
00:20:59.000 So, like, what kind of music will we have?
00:21:01.000 Blues is the roots of all pop music.
00:21:04.000 All pop music comes out of blues.
00:21:06.000 Everything that's pop music that's not European classical music comes from black people.
00:21:10.000 I mean, the original roots, basically.
00:21:12.000 Of course, whites were involved in it.
00:21:14.000 You know, of course, all that music.
00:21:16.000 But all that stuff, the roots of it are in the slaves.
00:21:18.000 Well, even European rock.
00:21:20.000 Like Led Zeppelin.
00:21:21.000 Well, they borrowed it.
00:21:22.000 They stole a shitload.
00:21:23.000 Ask the Beatles.
00:21:24.000 They talked about the Stones.
00:21:25.000 Of course, the Stones.
00:21:26.000 They talked about it all the time.
00:21:28.000 They were like, you know, we are not the Rolling Stones without muddy waters.
00:21:31.000 Of course, Elvis.
00:21:32.000 Elvis said it too.
00:21:33.000 Yeah, all of that sort of stemmed from black.
00:21:36.000 It's fascinating when you really think about that.
00:21:38.000 So that's the whole history of...
00:21:40.000 That's African-American history, actually, is ordinary black people Who aren't interested in being just like white people and doing their thing, you know, since slavery, just doing their thing and being called niggers by whites.
00:21:56.000 And also, and this is what people don't know, civil rights leaders since slavery, like black political leaders who wanted citizenship, attacking them for their culture just as harshly as the Ku Klux Klan did.
00:22:08.000 And I'm not exaggerating.
00:22:09.000 If you look at what Frederick Douglass said about slave culture If you look at what W.E.B. Du Bois sometimes said about slave culture and black culture, then Martin Luther King, A. Philip Randolph, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, all the way through, they are saying the harshest,
00:22:25.000 nastiest things about black, working class, popular culture.
00:22:29.000 You could imagine.
00:22:30.000 But again, it was for this reason.
00:22:32.000 They wanted to convince whites that we are just like them.
00:22:36.000 So they'll let us in.
00:22:37.000 They'll let us sit at the table of America.
00:22:39.000 They'll give us the vote.
00:22:40.000 We can then become president.
00:22:43.000 And so, guess what happened?
00:22:46.000 They finally...
00:22:47.000 A guy came along who was black-looking.
00:22:53.000 But who lived in this perfect nuclear Christian family, wife, two kids, didn't drink, didn't do drugs.
00:23:03.000 He smoked, but he stopped smoking pretty quickly, right?
00:23:06.000 Very dignified, spoke perfect English, right?
00:23:10.000 And guess what happened?
00:23:11.000 He became our first black president.
00:23:12.000 So Obama is absolutely...
00:23:15.000 The apotheosis is a good academic word.
00:23:17.000 He's the pinnacle.
00:23:19.000 He's the full achievement of that long attempt by civil rights leaders, black political leaders, to assimilate blacks.
00:23:28.000 And they won in that way.
00:23:30.000 They got a president, but what else did they win?
00:23:33.000 Right?
00:23:34.000 In doing that, not much.
00:23:35.000 I mean, race relations now, are they better now?
00:23:38.000 Not really.
00:23:39.000 Do black people still say stuff in their hip-hop songs that is not respectable, even more than ever?
00:23:47.000 I don't think black people are thinking, when they're doing their hip-hop songs, they're not thinking that they're representing all black people.
00:23:54.000 They're thinking they're representing their vision.
00:23:55.000 They're representing what they see on the street, what they see in their neighborhoods.
00:23:59.000 Exactly.
00:24:00.000 That's always going to be the case, right?
00:24:02.000 This is the thing.
00:24:04.000 People who actually are from those neighborhoods, where there really aren't any white people, if they're from the projects or they're from...
00:24:11.000 You know, these poor black neighborhoods that are famous, right?
00:24:14.000 I mean, by and large, and we know this from what they say in their art, you know, don't give a shit about what white people think about them, right?
00:24:23.000 They're not interested in citizenship.
00:24:24.000 They're not interested in being good Americans.
00:24:27.000 They're doing their thing, as you just said.
00:24:28.000 I mean, they're interested in representing, seems to me, they're interested in representing their aspirations.
00:24:33.000 I think?
00:24:57.000 It's very unlikely that that person will become a cop.
00:25:00.000 It's unlikely that that person will obey the laws, will obey the actual laws and then the cultural laws.
00:25:07.000 They're not going to be good Americans.
00:25:08.000 They're out for themselves.
00:25:09.000 And I think that's actually always historically, for more than 200 years, provided this alternative for white people.
00:25:17.000 We've always looked at that with this sort of split lens.
00:25:21.000 Part of us says, God damn, look at those primitive black people.
00:25:25.000 They're doing the bad stuff.
00:25:26.000 We're not like them.
00:25:27.000 We're better than that.
00:25:28.000 And always simultaneously, most or many white people have looked at it and said, hmm, that looks more fun than what we're doing.
00:25:36.000 Maybe we'll do that for a while.
00:25:37.000 Well, certainly young white suburban kids that grow up in these safe sheltered environments always adopt that sort of radical, badass, black rapper sort of listening to their music, wearing their pants low,
00:25:54.000 like sagging, doing all that stuff, co-opting various aspects of black culture that seem to be dangerous.
00:26:01.000 You know who you just described?
00:26:02.000 Who?
00:26:03.000 My son.
00:26:04.000 Oh no!
00:26:05.000 No, don't say oh no, it's good.
00:26:06.000 Is he sagging?
00:26:07.000 I'm saying, I'm pro-wiga.
00:26:10.000 Your son sags?
00:26:11.000 Does he sag?
00:26:12.000 No, they don't sag anymore.
00:26:13.000 The new thing is these ripped jeans.
00:26:15.000 That's the hip-hop style.
00:26:16.000 Oh, they ripped their jeans.
00:26:17.000 I'm so behind the times.
00:26:18.000 They're kind of like fitted.
00:26:19.000 They don't sag, but they're like just shredded.
00:26:21.000 Almost like an 80s look.
00:26:23.000 And I said to my son, I said, you know...
00:26:26.000 Back in the 80s, we laughed at those jeans, but for a totally different reason.
00:26:29.000 And now that's the coolest thing that black people wear.
00:26:32.000 So he's doing all that.
00:26:34.000 He is fully immersed.
00:26:36.000 He studies rap lyrics.
00:26:38.000 He knows all that stuff.
00:26:40.000 How old is he?
00:26:40.000 He's making beats.
00:26:41.000 He's 15. Get him into martial arts quick.
00:26:45.000 See, why?
00:26:46.000 Does he train?
00:26:47.000 No, he refused.
00:26:48.000 Really?
00:26:48.000 I tried to get him in there a couple times.
00:26:50.000 Good for discipline.
00:26:50.000 He met Joe Schilling, and I think that scared him.
00:26:53.000 Scared him?
00:26:53.000 Yeah.
00:26:54.000 Scared me when I met Joe.
00:26:55.000 Joe's a scary dude.
00:26:56.000 That was my first gym, and I walked in the first day, and I had never done anything like that.
00:27:01.000 And I walked in, and there was Joe, and I was like, okay, if people like that are going to be doing this, I'm not having any part of this, because he was just terrifying.
00:27:08.000 Yeah.
00:27:09.000 But when you get to know him, he's a teddy bear.
00:27:11.000 He's awesome.
00:27:11.000 Big ol' sweetheart.
00:27:12.000 Awesome.
00:27:12.000 Great coach.
00:27:13.000 Great guy.
00:27:13.000 Yeah.
00:27:14.000 Yeah.
00:27:14.000 I love Joe.
00:27:15.000 So I just think for a young boy, like, it's a great way to sort your head out.
00:27:18.000 I think life is so...
00:27:20.000 If I didn't find martial arts when I was that age, who the fuck knows what would happen to me?
00:27:23.000 I started when I was...
00:27:24.000 I was just thinking about this.
00:27:24.000 I started when I was 41. Wow.
00:27:27.000 Yeah.
00:27:27.000 That's amazing.
00:27:27.000 I took my first boxing lesson when I was 41. Wow.
00:27:30.000 How's your double jab?
00:27:31.000 Church Street.
00:27:32.000 Really good.
00:27:32.000 Can you hook off the jab?
00:27:33.000 Oh, yeah.
00:27:34.000 Really?
00:27:34.000 Hell, yeah.
00:27:35.000 And you started at 41?
00:27:36.000 Hell, yeah.
00:27:36.000 You got some speed to it?
00:27:37.000 Yeah.
00:27:38.000 Pop, pop.
00:27:38.000 Yeah, I got a good jab.
00:27:39.000 Really?
00:27:39.000 Yeah.
00:27:40.000 Interesting.
00:27:41.000 I'm told this.
00:27:42.000 What are you a tall guy?
00:27:44.000 I got some holes in my game.
00:27:45.000 What do you think about Klitschko Joshua this weekend?
00:27:47.000 It's a big fight.
00:27:48.000 Boring?
00:27:49.000 Those guys are boring.
00:27:49.000 Joshua's got nice power.
00:27:50.000 Joshua is not boring.
00:27:51.000 He's got great power.
00:27:53.000 His technique's okay.
00:27:54.000 He's not great.
00:27:55.000 I think Klitschko's got a nice jab.
00:27:56.000 He's a gold medalist in the Olympics.
00:27:57.000 The Klitschko's put people to sleep, Joe.
00:27:59.000 This is why the heavyweight In the heavyweight division, no one cares about it, right?
00:28:01.000 Put people to sleep the other way by being boring.
00:28:03.000 Yeah, being boring.
00:28:04.000 You don't mean by knocking them out.
00:28:06.000 But Joshua puts people to sleep the right way.
00:28:08.000 Joshua knocks people out, which is fun to watch, and I'm into that, but it's not...
00:28:12.000 I just love technique.
00:28:13.000 I'm a student of it.
00:28:14.000 So you're like a Lomachenko guy.
00:28:15.000 So thank you for bringing him up.
00:28:17.000 Vasily Lomachenko is the best.
00:28:17.000 Thank you for bringing him up.
00:28:18.000 We've got to talk about this.
00:28:19.000 God!
00:28:20.000 Forget my career, podcast, history, fuck all that shit.
00:28:23.000 People who don't know, please go online right now and Google Vasily Lomachenko.
00:28:29.000 He might be the best boxer that's ever lived.
00:28:32.000 He might be.
00:28:33.000 I was worried that we were going to fight about this, but I think we're on the same page here.
00:28:37.000 He's on such another level with his footwork and movement.
00:28:41.000 I just can't come up with a comparable...
00:28:43.000 I mean, there's been some amazing boxers way back to Sugar Ray Robinson and Willie Pep and all those guys paved the way, but I feel like every Everything evolves, right?
00:28:54.000 Every combat sport, even art and music evolves to the current state it's at now, which you get the best of the best right now and you go, wow, they've learned from Ali and Sugary Leonard and Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins.
00:29:07.000 And Lomachenko is, in my eyes, is the best.
00:29:10.000 The way he moves is insane.
00:29:11.000 And he's super aggressive.
00:29:13.000 He's not like...
00:29:14.000 Floyd Mayweather, who is arguably the best ever, you know, multiple-time world champion in multiple divisions, 49-0, only been like hit solid maybe seven, eight times his whole career.
00:29:27.000 I saw him once when he got a little rocked by Shane Mosley.
00:29:29.000 Shane Mosley, yeah.
00:29:30.000 Once.
00:29:31.000 And then Maidana cracked him once.
00:29:34.000 But that's like over the course of this spectacular career.
00:29:38.000 But...
00:29:38.000 Much more defensive oriented, brilliantly defensive, very economical with his approach, but brittle hands, hurts his hands, breaks his hands a lot.
00:29:46.000 Not a lot of power.
00:29:47.000 Lomachenko is on you like glue, stands right in front of you and you can't hit him.
00:29:51.000 And he's going left and he's going right and he's in and he's out and you don't know where the fuck he is and he's lighting you up.
00:29:57.000 What is this?
00:29:58.000 Here's why Vasily Lomachenko is now the number one pound-for-pound fighter in boxing.
00:30:02.000 What's that in?
00:30:02.000 Forbes?
00:30:03.000 Damn, Forbes.
00:30:04.000 So technically he can't be because his record.
00:30:07.000 He hasn't really been tested.
00:30:09.000 He's got eight fights?
00:30:10.000 No, no, no.
00:30:10.000 I'm with you completely.
00:30:11.000 I'm just saying technically he doesn't have enough fights.
00:30:14.000 I don't give a fuck.
00:30:15.000 To be number one.
00:30:15.000 I know.
00:30:16.000 He's the best.
00:30:17.000 So let me just say, so here's my history with Lomachenko.
00:30:19.000 So, like, I forget, it was like four or five years ago, I thought Gary Russell Jr. was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I still think he's just phenomenal.
00:30:27.000 He's a very good fighter.
00:30:28.000 Incredibly fast.
00:30:28.000 The fastest hand since Roy Jones, easily.
00:30:30.000 And maybe even faster.
00:30:32.000 Just, and technically just perfect.
00:30:34.000 I thought he was unbeatable.
00:30:35.000 I thought he was the next thing.
00:30:36.000 And he's still a great, great, great fighter.
00:30:38.000 I love him.
00:30:39.000 He fought Lomachenko, and I was like, who's this Russian dude?
00:30:41.000 I didn't even know he was Ukrainian.
00:30:42.000 Never heard of him.
00:30:43.000 And he tore, he took Russell apart.
00:30:45.000 Here's a highlight reel.
00:30:47.000 Look, he stands right in front of people, man.
00:30:50.000 He just has such brilliant movement, man.
00:30:53.000 I mean, he's like the perfect example of, like, new wave.
00:31:01.000 Like, this stage.
00:31:02.000 So that right there?
00:31:02.000 Yeah.
00:31:04.000 Sidestep movement.
00:31:04.000 Yeah, he does this.
00:31:05.000 It's a hop, actually.
00:31:07.000 He hops inside, and he'll throw a body shot off of it when he gets inside on you.
00:31:11.000 But he's basically standing at your side.
00:31:14.000 Boom, right there.
00:31:14.000 He did it again.
00:31:15.000 Well, he's not like a brutal puncher.
00:31:18.000 Or hop in.
00:31:19.000 And you know the funny thing?
00:31:20.000 So I've been hopping around gyms lately, boxing gyms.
00:31:23.000 Look at that!
00:31:23.000 He did it like three times in a row.
00:31:25.000 Genius.
00:31:25.000 And here's how I know.
00:31:28.000 Here's why I think that he is the next Ali, which is that just in the last year, every boxing gym I've gone to, people have taught Lomachenko's moves, like as a standard part of classes.
00:31:41.000 Interesting.
00:31:41.000 Right?
00:31:42.000 Meaning that he's changing the game.
00:31:43.000 Right.
00:31:44.000 It's kind of what you were saying.
00:31:45.000 Well, you know, Mike Tyson did a lot of that, too, by the way.
00:31:47.000 Yeah, but people can't ever punch as hard as Mike Tyson.
00:31:50.000 Right.
00:31:50.000 You can actually do some of this stuff.
00:31:52.000 Of course, he's a phenomenal athlete, Lomachenko is.
00:31:54.000 And not everyone can do this.
00:31:55.000 But there are some things here that you can do that have never been done before.
00:32:00.000 Like, in particular, that little hop step.
00:32:02.000 I had a coach call it the Lomachenko jump or something.
00:32:05.000 But you can do that.
00:32:06.000 You can just step in like that really quickly.
00:32:09.000 But people, for some reason, just never did it.
00:32:12.000 Well, Tyson did do it.
00:32:13.000 Tyson learned it from Customato.
00:32:15.000 Customato was teaching this way back in the fucking 50s.
00:32:18.000 But his style was...
00:32:20.000 Mike Tyson's style was so much different because he was throwing howitzers at you.
00:32:25.000 Lomachenko is not knocking anybody out with one punch.
00:32:27.000 He's hitting you with multiple barrage of punches.
00:32:30.000 They dropped him with a liver shot.
00:32:32.000 But the thing about what Lomachenko is doing with this steady barrage is very similar to what I've always said about Jiu Jitsu.
00:32:40.000 If you want to really learn Jiu Jitsu, learn Jiu Jitsu from a small man.
00:32:44.000 Because small men can't use strength and weight and all the physical advantages.
00:32:50.000 They have to use perfect technique.
00:32:51.000 So if you deal with guys like Eddie Bravo or Hoyler Gracie or Barrett Yoshida, like the really little guys are the guys who have this stellar technique.
00:33:01.000 Because they don't have the physical strength.
00:33:03.000 With Lomachenko, you've seen the same thing.
00:33:05.000 He's not a one-punch guy.
00:33:06.000 He doesn't have some Tommy Hearns knockout ability or Mike Tyson-type power.
00:33:11.000 So he's forced to have this brilliant movement and footwork, which is complete next level.
00:33:17.000 The footwork, I think, is the best of all time.
00:33:19.000 And now he's, you know, literally embracing the whole idea of him being in the Matrix.
00:33:23.000 He has Matrix shorts on now.
00:33:25.000 See, I like the Matrix comparison.
00:33:27.000 I think of him as the Nightcrawler.
00:33:29.000 Like, you know, he's just teleporting around you.
00:33:32.000 Nightcrawler from X-Men?
00:33:33.000 Yeah, X-Men.
00:33:33.000 He just, like, shows up suddenly right next to you, right?
00:33:35.000 Oh, it's genius.
00:33:36.000 He disappears and shows up right next to you in a different location.
00:33:38.000 I mean, just right there, that little movement and the anticipation of the counter and already being two, three steps ahead of you.
00:33:44.000 That last fight against Sosa, have you seen that?
00:33:46.000 Yeah, I saw that.
00:33:47.000 That was even better.
00:33:48.000 He improved.
00:33:49.000 I was like, this is getting crazy.
00:33:51.000 He's so amazing.
00:33:53.000 Everyone should watch him.
00:33:54.000 He's on another level, man.
00:33:56.000 He's on a complete another level.
00:33:58.000 There's a guy like him in kickboxing.
00:34:00.000 Who?
00:34:00.000 Giorgio Petrosian.
00:34:02.000 Have you ever seen Giorgio Petrosian fight?
00:34:03.000 Yeah, he's the best, for sure.
00:34:04.000 Yeah, I love Petrosian.
00:34:05.000 He's some next-level shit, too.
00:34:07.000 Definitely.
00:34:07.000 Yeah, I think so.
00:34:08.000 But he did lose one fight by knockout a couple years ago.
00:34:11.000 Yeah, badly.
00:34:12.000 Andy Ristie.
00:34:12.000 Andy Ristie.
00:34:13.000 By Daniel Elunga, is that who it was?
00:34:15.000 No, Andy Ristie.
00:34:15.000 Andy Ristie, that's who it was, yeah.
00:34:17.000 Well, Ristie's a brutal knockout puncher.
00:34:18.000 He knocked out Van Ristmelen, too.
00:34:20.000 Yeah.
00:34:20.000 Same year, I think.
00:34:21.000 Well, it's one of those things where a guy like Andy Ristie has so much power, if he catches a human being on the chin, you're fucked.
00:34:27.000 Yeah, not perfect technique, but man.
00:34:29.000 But nasty, nasty power.
00:34:31.000 Yeah.
00:34:31.000 I wanted to talk about Jermaine Durandamy.
00:34:33.000 Oh, yeah.
00:34:33.000 Talk about her.
00:34:34.000 I mean, because it's funny that we're talking about fighting.
00:34:36.000 I'm so happy.
00:34:38.000 It's all I want to do.
00:34:39.000 Well, this podcast really, you know, I don't know.
00:34:42.000 It's not real format to it.
00:34:44.000 We've all noticed, Joe.
00:34:46.000 Millions of us have noticed.
00:34:47.000 That's what is great about it.
00:34:49.000 What was I going to say?
00:34:50.000 No, I mean, it's funny.
00:34:52.000 I think the first time I was on here a couple of years ago, I said at the end that I wanted to be a surfer deep down, you know, like I love what I do and being a historian and all this stuff.
00:34:59.000 But deep down, I wanted to be a surfer.
00:35:01.000 Now, I don't want to be a surfer.
00:35:02.000 I want to be a boxing coach.
00:35:04.000 Really?
00:35:04.000 Yeah, I really do.
00:35:05.000 Well, a lot of people that are intellectuals, a lot of people that live almost like a sedentary lifestyle because you're constantly in front of books or computer screens, they long for this sense of adventure.
00:35:15.000 I want to be a backpacker.
00:35:16.000 I want to go to Nepal.
00:35:18.000 Most academics, and maybe this is one of the reasons I had to leave that profession, or I'm trying to leave that profession, is that I've always been a physical person, too.
00:35:28.000 I've always been just in touch with my body in various ways.
00:35:31.000 I've always been into sports, playing them.
00:35:33.000 Doing stuff.
00:35:35.000 Most academics, I'd say, or at least a lot of them, seem to be completely cut off from their bodies.
00:35:39.000 They just don't care what's below the neck.
00:35:42.000 They don't care what they wear.
00:35:44.000 They don't care how they feel.
00:35:45.000 They certainly don't care how they look, many of them.
00:35:47.000 They don't talk about the body.
00:35:48.000 They don't talk about things like this ever.
00:35:51.000 Well, they look down on it.
00:35:52.000 Yeah, that's the problem is the looking down on it.
00:35:54.000 I think that's very short-sighted.
00:35:55.000 Like this conversation right now we had about boxing, if you just took that clip that last 10 minutes and you put that in front of, and you sent that to every historian in the country, I mean, my reputation would be done.
00:36:04.000 No!
00:36:04.000 I mean, it's already pretty much done.
00:36:06.000 Really?
00:36:06.000 Are you serious?
00:36:07.000 Why wouldn't I? I mean, they just think that you're a guy who appreciates boxing.
00:36:10.000 I love talking to people who aren't from that world when I tell them about these things and they're like, oh, of course that couldn't be.
00:36:14.000 No, it's that bad.
00:36:15.000 Well, what a silly world that is then.
00:36:17.000 It's that bad.
00:36:18.000 They would think less of me.
00:36:19.000 Wow.
00:36:20.000 But yeah, no, I want to be a boxing coach.
00:36:22.000 Really?
00:36:23.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:36:24.000 I mean, I don't know if I can really make it happen professionally, but, you know, at least on the side, you know.
00:36:29.000 We'd have to have a couple fights, don't you think?
00:36:31.000 That's what I'm wondering.
00:36:32.000 I don't know.
00:36:33.000 I mean, I certainly can't coach pros.
00:36:35.000 Right.
00:36:35.000 But I mean, I'm talking about people sort of like at my level.
00:36:38.000 Classes.
00:36:38.000 Yeah.
00:36:38.000 Well, people who spar.
00:36:40.000 Maybe some amateur fighters.
00:36:42.000 I mean, I'm working like a little bit with a guy in my gym who's trying to be an amateur boxer now.
00:36:45.000 But I'm not his coach.
00:36:46.000 I'm just saying.
00:36:47.000 I'm sort of like trying to coach.
00:36:49.000 Because he's brand new to the sport.
00:36:50.000 Right.
00:36:51.000 And I just love it.
00:36:52.000 I love it.
00:36:52.000 I love teaching.
00:36:53.000 I love teaching.
00:36:54.000 And that's the thing about academia that I've always just loved.
00:36:56.000 And that's why I entered it.
00:36:57.000 Because I just felt like it was just natural for me, teaching people things.
00:37:01.000 Teaching is fun, man.
00:37:03.000 If you're good at it, but most people are not.
00:37:05.000 Yeah.
00:37:05.000 So when you teach jujitsu, what you're doing is, and this goes for anything if you're teaching how to fix a bike, you're taking all these complex ideas, and this is what you're a master at, You take all these really complex ideas and you package them.
00:37:18.000 You break them down into little bite-sized components and then hand them over to the person.
00:37:23.000 You give them so that they can consume it and understand it instead of just saying, oh, that's a Japanese necktie.
00:37:28.000 Go ahead, do it.
00:37:29.000 Which is what you'll see a lot of teachers do.
00:37:31.000 Here's how you do a Japanese necktie.
00:37:33.000 No, go ahead, do it.
00:37:34.000 Right, right.
00:37:34.000 But you're like, okay, no, the elbow goes here.
00:37:36.000 I mean, a lot of jujitsu instructors do this too, of course, but like, you know, the elbow goes right here, an inch down there, and then the knees here, and then the right.
00:37:43.000 And so it's, but it's just like what I do.
00:37:45.000 I mean, you take these really complex, abstract concepts, you know, that, and you give them back to people who are completely new to them.
00:37:52.000 Right.
00:37:53.000 You have to, you have to package it.
00:37:56.000 Not dumb it down, but distill it, right?
00:37:59.000 You have to like bring the essential components down and get rid of all the extraneous stuff and then just hand it over to them in this very clear, simple way.
00:38:07.000 And then you can give them the next part and then you connect that and then you connect that and next thing you know, they have this new radical concept of Martin Luther King or they can do a Japanese necktie.
00:38:18.000 Right.
00:38:18.000 That's what separates someone who's a really good teacher versus someone who has maybe some real skill at something but isn't good at communicating.
00:38:27.000 Like breaking it down into a system, like a step-by-step progression system.
00:38:32.000 Yeah.
00:38:32.000 Yeah, my coach I was talking about in Salem, Nick Gilardi.
00:38:35.000 I've got to give him a shout-out because he's awesome.
00:38:37.000 Powerful Nick.
00:38:38.000 What's that?
00:38:38.000 I said powerful Nick.
00:38:39.000 Yeah, he is.
00:38:40.000 Shut up.
00:38:43.000 He's one of the best coaches I've ever seen because he's really a coach's coach.
00:38:46.000 Like, he really cares about coaching and teaching.
00:38:48.000 He really cares about teaching.
00:38:49.000 And that's what he does.
00:38:49.000 Like, he'll stop.
00:38:50.000 Well, he said he was a Team Quest guy.
00:38:51.000 Yeah, he comes up.
00:38:52.000 So, Robert Follis, who's also an awesome coach.
00:38:55.000 I don't know.
00:38:56.000 He started out with them, and now he's an extreme couture now.
00:39:00.000 Yeah.
00:39:00.000 He's worked with a lot of, like, top-level guys.
00:39:02.000 Yeah.
00:39:03.000 I mean, that's when the sport was being invented, basically.
00:39:05.000 Sure.
00:39:06.000 Yeah, so he was at the beginning of that as a kid.
00:39:08.000 Dan Henderson, Matt Lindland, Randy Couture.
00:39:12.000 I don't think it's about his context.
00:39:15.000 I think it's about who he is as a person, just like me.
00:39:17.000 No one trained me to be a teacher.
00:39:19.000 When I entered college, I had no idea I was going to be a teacher.
00:39:24.000 But I remember sitting in these college classes that kind of weren't very good.
00:39:27.000 And I remember that I spent a lot of my time thinking about how I would teach this differently than this guy was teaching it.
00:39:34.000 And then I realized, oh wait, I'm actually studying the teaching more than the subject itself.
00:39:40.000 How to communicate these ideas I was studying more than the subject itself.
00:39:44.000 And then I just, it dawned on me finally, it's like, oh, well, that means you probably should be a teacher.
00:39:49.000 And when I finally started doing it in graduate school at Columbia, I was teaching, you know, philosophy, actually.
00:39:55.000 And yeah, I just, I've loved it.
00:39:56.000 It was just my passion.
00:39:58.000 Do you find that when you teach things that it helps you better understand them, too, because you go over them from a real fundamental perspective?
00:40:05.000 Precisely.
00:40:06.000 Precisely, right.
00:40:06.000 So you don't – and that was the first thing I learned when I started teaching was that I thought I knew Plato really well, you know, until I started – until I knew that I had to teach him the next day.
00:40:16.000 And I was like, oh, wait a minute.
00:40:18.000 I didn't quite actually get that connection there between those two ideas in his book, you know.
00:40:22.000 Yeah, you have to.
00:40:23.000 I tell my students this all the time.
00:40:25.000 I said, you need to be so comfortable with this text that you can teach it to your roommate who's never read it before.
00:40:33.000 What that means is you have to think all the way through the ideas.
00:40:37.000 You have to go with your mind all the way through the ideas and then come back.
00:40:43.000 It's like martial arts or anything else.
00:40:46.000 You have to actually do the Japanese necktie all the way through and come back all the way through it, and then you can teach it.
00:40:53.000 All the way through my competitive Taekwondo career, I taught.
00:40:56.000 I taught at Boston University.
00:40:58.000 I taught my own school.
00:41:00.000 I taught classes.
00:41:01.000 I taught the entire time.
00:41:02.000 I didn't know that.
00:41:03.000 I didn't know that.
00:41:04.000 And it helped me tremendously.
00:41:06.000 It helped me understand it.
00:41:07.000 And I didn't realize how much it helped me until I started doing jujitsu and I watched other people who started teaching jujitsu just jump ahead by leaps and bounds from where they were.
00:41:18.000 A good example is my friend Brent.
00:41:20.000 He was like a purple belt, and he was always at like a certain level, kind of a static level.
00:41:26.000 And then, not static, but you know, improving, but nothing crazy.
00:41:31.000 He was like everybody else, right?
00:41:32.000 Jiu-Jitsu's hard, takes a long time to get better.
00:41:34.000 And you're around other people that are also getting better, so it's hard to really measure.
00:41:38.000 But then, he started teaching.
00:41:41.000 And like teaching full-time and then all of a sudden I would roll with him and I'd be in great danger.
00:41:47.000 I'd be like Jesus and I had a conversation with him once after training with him like dude I don't know what the fuck you're doing but your game has jumped like four or five steps ahead.
00:41:57.000 I feel like I'm the same as I was six, seven months ago, and he was like years ahead.
00:42:02.000 Right.
00:42:03.000 And he said it was all just teaching.
00:42:04.000 And I remember now that that was the first time I really felt confident as an intellectual, you know, as a...
00:42:10.000 When you were teaching the subjects?
00:42:11.000 Uh-huh.
00:42:11.000 At once I had taught them, it was like, oh, now I actually feel...
00:42:14.000 I was always...
00:42:14.000 I mean, everybody's racked with insecurity, especially in graduate school, about these things.
00:42:18.000 You know, everybody feels like an imposter.
00:42:19.000 Right.
00:42:19.000 Right.
00:42:20.000 Because all of us have 500 books that everyone else has read, that you should have read, that we haven't read.
00:42:25.000 Right.
00:42:28.000 And I came from this little dipshit college in Ohio, and I was a C student in high school, so I had extra insecurity, but...
00:42:35.000 Once I started teaching it and forcing myself to, as you said, learn the thing all the way through it and master it, and then teaching it, that's when I felt, oh, yeah, I belong here.
00:42:43.000 I get it.
00:42:44.000 I really do have some solid understanding of Plato now, and I really can do this thing.
00:42:51.000 You know, it's interesting that you're saying that, because that's a big issue with comedians, too.
00:42:54.000 And, like, as they're becoming successful, especially, they feel like frauds.
00:43:00.000 Like, everybody I know says that.
00:43:02.000 I've said it.
00:43:03.000 Everybody I know that sort of, like, started to make it, like, as they're, like, starting to headline and go on the road places and do television sets and things along those lines, you feel like a fraud.
00:43:12.000 When you're successful.
00:43:13.000 Yes.
00:43:14.000 You feel like a fraud.
00:43:15.000 Because you'll look at yourself and then you'll look at Dave Chappelle or someone else, Chris Rock, and you're like, I'm a fucking fraud.
00:43:23.000 I'm a fraud.
00:43:23.000 I'm not that guy.
00:43:24.000 I'm a fraud.
00:43:25.000 I'm not Richard Jenny.
00:43:26.000 I'm a fraud.
00:43:27.000 I'm sure.
00:43:28.000 And then it takes a long time before you feel comfortable enough to say, I know what I'm doing.
00:43:33.000 In academia, it's called the charlatan syndrome.
00:43:36.000 We all feel like we're charlatans.
00:43:38.000 I think it exists in everything, in everything difficult.
00:43:40.000 I'm not surprised.
00:43:41.000 And I think it's also probably a hallmark of someone who cares.
00:43:45.000 Absolutely.
00:43:45.000 That's what makes you better.
00:43:46.000 Yeah.
00:43:47.000 I don't think every academic has that, but I think those who do are the ones who are interesting and get better.
00:43:53.000 Well, I think the worst would be the opposite.
00:43:55.000 Someone who's like super confident way before their time.
00:43:58.000 Yeah, that's what I mean.
00:43:59.000 Yeah, they're gonna suck.
00:44:01.000 There's a lot of that too though, right?
00:44:02.000 Yeah.
00:44:03.000 There's a lot of weirdness in academia, man.
00:44:05.000 No kidding.
00:44:06.000 I can't imagine the stuff that you guys go through politically.
00:44:09.000 Oh my god.
00:44:10.000 Because just you saying that you couldn't talk about boxing.
00:44:13.000 Because you would be thought of as a fool.
00:44:15.000 So that's the thing.
00:44:17.000 I know you're really interested in this, and I am too.
00:44:20.000 And there are some misconceptions.
00:44:24.000 Well, I shouldn't say they're misconceptions.
00:44:26.000 I would say that there's a distortion of what's going on.
00:44:29.000 And this is not to say...
00:44:30.000 It's actually to say that it's worse than you think it is.
00:44:34.000 Whoa.
00:44:34.000 So what most people who are outside of academia think is going on is not quite what's going on.
00:44:40.000 What do you think we think?
00:44:40.000 It's something worse.
00:44:41.000 Well, I know because I've heard you and lots and lots of other people talk about it.
00:44:44.000 And it's not your fault at all because you're not there and all you do is get the media reports about it.
00:44:47.000 So I think what most people...
00:44:49.000 Well, I get it from Gad Saad and Jordan Peterson, too, who are professors.
00:44:53.000 And if you listen to them, actually, they themselves will talk about it a little differently.
00:44:57.000 But people still consume it differently because the news is all about the crazy thing that the 18-year-old said at Wesleyan or whatever.
00:45:05.000 But it's not the 18-year-old.
00:45:06.000 It's the 45-year-old that's teaching them.
00:45:08.000 And then sometimes the 45-year-old...
00:45:09.000 Yeah, okay, but here's the, so that stuff, that really sort of loony stuff, you know, that you hear coming out or protest, you know, people saying that they are gonna die because you said a word, that happens.
00:45:24.000 It does.
00:45:25.000 It's all true.
00:45:26.000 It's all there.
00:45:26.000 I've seen it, but I've seen it maybe at most one time a year in the colleges where I've been, maybe, not even, less than that, okay?
00:45:37.000 And if it were just that, that's not actually a big deal.
00:45:40.000 It's much worse than that.
00:45:42.000 What's worse is that there is a self-censorship going on that's universal and profound, constant, omnipresent.
00:45:54.000 Like, for instance, I never talk about my love for boxing around academics, or I'm very careful if I do, but it's not even that.
00:46:02.000 It's that we know that there are certain things that can't be said on a college campus.
00:46:06.000 And so we just don't say them.
00:46:08.000 Therefore, there's no need to police us.
00:46:11.000 There's no need to yell at us and scream at us and protest.
00:46:14.000 And what's the motivation?
00:46:16.000 For which?
00:46:17.000 For the people that are holding back on thoughts that maybe they would normally express, but they don't.
00:46:21.000 Okay.
00:46:21.000 Well, here's what I think it is.
00:46:22.000 For the senior faculty who have tenure, meaning lifetime appointments, cowardice.
00:46:28.000 That's all it is.
00:46:29.000 Really?
00:46:29.000 I think they're cowards.
00:46:30.000 Yeah.
00:46:31.000 If you are an adjunct like me with no job security, or if you're an assistant professor up for tenure, and if you don't get tenure, you have no career, I don't blame them.
00:46:40.000 I get it.
00:46:41.000 That's what I've done, too.
00:46:42.000 I've policed myself, because you have to to stay in the game.
00:46:45.000 If you have tenure, lifetime appointment, you're a senior professor, you make the decisions there on curriculum, hiring, and firing, and tenure.
00:46:52.000 The faculty make those decisions.
00:46:53.000 And you don't challenge these crazy ideas in any way.
00:46:58.000 Or if you police yourself, you stop yourself from saying things that you think are right, that you believe in.
00:47:04.000 You're a coward.
00:47:05.000 I'm sorry.
00:47:05.000 Those people are cowards.
00:47:07.000 I've seen it.
00:47:23.000 I think the worst fear of all those people is being called a racist or a sexist publicly.
00:47:31.000 I think that is their version of being in a cave crawling on their bellies in the pitch black.
00:47:38.000 I think that's their worst fear.
00:47:42.000 And it's not entirely irrational, right?
00:47:44.000 You will be publicly shamed.
00:47:48.000 The whole campus will think you're a racist, even if you're not.
00:47:51.000 You might even make the media.
00:47:53.000 And then the whole world thinks you're a racist for a minute.
00:47:57.000 But you're not going to lose your job if you have tenure, unless you actually did say something that's truly racist.
00:48:05.000 It's just cowardice.
00:48:06.000 I think that's what we need.
00:48:07.000 We need those professors, the ones with the power.
00:48:10.000 And I'm talking about they have absolute power on these campuses, right?
00:48:13.000 These aren't even like politicians who have to go up for a vote.
00:48:15.000 They're there forever, unless they basically kill somebody.
00:48:20.000 They need to stand up now.
00:48:25.000 I'm not going to say what I want.
00:48:44.000 In my classrooms.
00:48:45.000 And on Twitter.
00:48:47.000 Because people have been punished for that, too.
00:48:50.000 Well, they're trying to get him to stop doing his YouTube lectures.
00:48:52.000 I know.
00:48:53.000 Which is fascinating.
00:48:54.000 I know.
00:48:54.000 Because they're very measured.
00:48:56.000 They're long form.
00:48:56.000 He gets to expand on his thoughts as much as he likes.
00:49:00.000 He's very, very informed.
00:49:01.000 Sure.
00:49:02.000 Again, I have major disagreements.
00:49:05.000 What is the disagreements?
00:49:10.000 Gender and postmodernism, I think he's completely off, but, you know.
00:49:13.000 How so on gender?
00:49:14.000 So he, and I know you agree with him on this, I think.
00:49:18.000 Well, maybe, I don't know.
00:49:19.000 I'm not sure, but, you know, it's this idea that there just are two genders, that's it, and they're attached to biology.
00:49:25.000 No, I don't think that.
00:49:25.000 Good, okay.
00:49:26.000 No.
00:49:26.000 He seems to think that.
00:49:29.000 I think there's a spectrum of humans in every single aspect of being a person.
00:49:33.000 I should say I heard your conversation with him, and I could see, and this was interesting to me, it was exciting, because I could actually see you moving in a direction that I found to be much more interesting than his, which is closer to mine, which is, yeah, that it's fluid.
00:49:45.000 Well, there's feminine men, there's masculine women.
00:49:47.000 Go to Thailand.
00:49:47.000 Yeah, for sure.
00:49:48.000 Go to Thailand.
00:49:49.000 In fact, here we go, merging all these topics together, one of the top Muay Thai fighters recently, I don't know if she's still fighting, is a ladyboy in Thailand, you know?
00:49:59.000 Well, once she got the operation, her performance dropped off pretty radically.
00:50:03.000 But that's just a lack of testosterone.
00:50:05.000 And I know your thing about Fallon Fox.
00:50:07.000 Yes.
00:50:07.000 So I agree with you there.
00:50:08.000 So here's the thing.
00:50:09.000 It's a different story.
00:50:10.000 I totally agree with you on that particular thing, right?
00:50:13.000 Whether she should have been allowed to fight Well, it's not that she should have been allowed to fight.
00:50:18.000 I think she should be allowed to fight.
00:50:20.000 Women?
00:50:20.000 As long as the women know that she used to be a man.
00:50:23.000 That's fine too.
00:50:23.000 The problem was, for the first two fights, she didn't disclose it.
00:50:26.000 Right.
00:50:26.000 Because she said it was a medical procedure and she didn't have to give up the personal details of her medical procedure.
00:50:31.000 I say that's bullshit.
00:50:32.000 Right.
00:50:33.000 I say, well, you're dealing with a chromosomal issue.
00:50:35.000 You're dealing with the fact that you have a different bone structure.
00:50:37.000 Yes.
00:50:38.000 Different mechanical advantages.
00:50:39.000 Right.
00:50:40.000 And 30 years of testosterone in your body.
00:50:42.000 Yes.
00:50:42.000 It's just not the same.
00:50:43.000 Exactly.
00:50:43.000 But as long as someone knows, look, I'm fine with Jermaine Durandamy.
00:50:48.000 She knocked out a man.
00:50:49.000 I don't know if you ever saw that fight.
00:50:50.000 I did.
00:50:51.000 Do you think she's juiced?
00:50:52.000 She's not juiced, is she?
00:50:53.000 No.
00:50:53.000 She's just fucking badass.
00:50:54.000 Awesome.
00:50:55.000 Yeah, she's just awesome.
00:50:55.000 She's just fucking badass.
00:50:56.000 I mean, I don't know if she's taken anything in her entire career.
00:50:59.000 It would just be pure speculation.
00:51:01.000 She doesn't look like she has, but that doesn't mean anything either.
00:51:04.000 But she's so fucking badass and so technical and so tough that she's fought men, but she knew they were a man going in, she made a decision, just like I think you should be allowed to skydive, just like I think you should be allowed to ride bulls.
00:51:16.000 I don't think it's smart, but you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want to do.
00:51:19.000 I'm all for freedom of expression, of participation in any sort of dangerous activity.
00:51:25.000 My issue, 100%, was that people are trying to pretend that there's no advantage whatsoever.
00:51:30.000 And that's crazy.
00:51:31.000 That's silly.
00:51:32.000 So the thing is, within that framework, within the rules we are operating in, right?
00:51:39.000 Whether it's in fighting or whether it's in this particular society.
00:51:43.000 Or the wrestling girl in Texas.
00:51:44.000 Yeah, I read all about that too.
00:51:45.000 Exactly.
00:51:46.000 So that's a particular rule.
00:51:47.000 You are agreeing to play a particular game, right?
00:51:51.000 And you're just breaking the rules.
00:51:53.000 That's all.
00:51:53.000 I mean, you have a body.
00:51:57.000 They're letting them break the rules.
00:51:59.000 And I think a lot of it is people worried about being called transphobic or homophobic or in any way prejudiced, where they're allowing certain people to compete.
00:52:10.000 Like this woman in Australia, the trans woman in Australia that just broke all these world records in weightlifting because she was a fucking man her whole life.
00:52:17.000 It all of a sudden became a woman.
00:52:18.000 It's just killing everybody and weightlifting.
00:52:20.000 And then there's the runners in, I think they're from Kenya or South Africa.
00:52:24.000 No, the one from South Africa in particular.
00:52:25.000 I forget her name.
00:52:26.000 What do you mean the one that's like a hermaphrodite?
00:52:28.000 Well, I don't know what she is, but she's broken every record by like, you know, huge, insane amounts.
00:52:34.000 I think she's just a woman with an abnormally large amount of testosterone.
00:52:38.000 I think they've actually done chromosomes.
00:52:40.000 I don't know.
00:52:40.000 When I saw her in the Olympics, it just jumped out at me.
00:52:44.000 Pull that up because I'm pretty sure that that woman actually has been tested, and then there was a real issue behind it, and she felt terrible about it because it was just the way she was born.
00:52:52.000 Really?
00:52:53.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:52:54.000 Well, again, the spectrum.
00:52:55.000 Look, there's men that have tremendous amounts of testosterone, and there's men that have almost none.
00:53:00.000 That's actually the major point we need to talk about.
00:53:02.000 You're totally on the right track there.
00:53:03.000 I totally agree with that.
00:53:04.000 That's the most important thing, which is that there's a spectrum, right?
00:53:10.000 50% of the world is male and 50% is female.
00:53:14.000 Nonsense.
00:53:14.000 Right, thank you.
00:53:17.000 That's black and white.
00:53:17.000 Nonsense.
00:53:17.000 I say to my students, I say, okay, there's 7 billion people in the world.
00:53:21.000 Okay, imagine in your mind lining all of them up, you know, naked in front of you.
00:53:24.000 How many sexes do you see?
00:53:26.000 This is what I want you to do.
00:53:28.000 Get a picture of Yoel Romero and put it next to a picture of Andy Dick.
00:53:32.000 Tell me they're the same thing.
00:53:34.000 Tell me this is even.
00:53:36.000 They're both men.
00:53:37.000 Tell me it's even.
00:53:38.000 It's nonsense.
00:53:41.000 I mean, it's chaos.
00:53:42.000 Yeah, you know, it's like, have you ever heard a guy on the street say, man, that's a lot of women?
00:53:46.000 Yes.
00:53:46.000 Well, that suggests there are women who are less women to them.
00:53:50.000 Sort of.
00:53:50.000 Exactly.
00:53:51.000 Yeah.
00:53:51.000 That's exactly right.
00:53:52.000 There's a spectrum.
00:53:53.000 And there's also a spectrum in sizes.
00:53:54.000 I mean, that's why there's weight classes.
00:53:55.000 So let me ask you this.
00:53:56.000 Okay, so let's push it a little further.
00:53:57.000 Okay.
00:53:57.000 So, so far, you're doing very well.
00:53:59.000 Oh, in your eyes.
00:54:00.000 Yeah.
00:54:01.000 Some people are screaming at their fucking computer right now.
00:54:03.000 Oh, believe me, I know.
00:54:04.000 Fucking commies.
00:54:05.000 Believe me, I know.
00:54:07.000 Robin's going homo.
00:54:09.000 So that's...
00:54:09.000 Well, no, I think you already are.
00:54:11.000 I think you already went all the way, actually.
00:54:13.000 I mean, so what...
00:54:14.000 There's two things.
00:54:15.000 There's the Jordan Peterson view.
00:54:19.000 I don't think he has that view.
00:54:20.000 Hang on.
00:54:21.000 Let me put it out there.
00:54:22.000 Okay.
00:54:22.000 What I think he's saying, which is that gender is fixed and biologically determined.
00:54:30.000 I'm pretty sure he does believe that.
00:54:32.000 Okay?
00:54:33.000 That's what I would call sort of the traditional conservative conventional view.
00:54:37.000 Those are both men.
00:54:39.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:54:40.000 Jesus Christ.
00:54:40.000 Or not.
00:54:40.000 Or, you know what?
00:54:41.000 Or, like, there's more than two categories in the world, right?
00:54:45.000 And so Andy Dick would be one, and Yul Romero would be another.
00:54:49.000 And where would you put me there?
00:54:51.000 I mean, I'm neither one of those guys.
00:54:52.000 You're in the middle there.
00:54:53.000 I'm neither one of them.
00:54:55.000 Well, see, the deal is both of them can procreate with women.
00:54:59.000 Okay, so technically they're both male.
00:55:02.000 But a whole lot of people who are called men cannot procreate with women.
00:55:07.000 A whole lot.
00:55:08.000 What do you mean?
00:55:09.000 You mean trans women?
00:55:10.000 No, no, no.
00:55:10.000 Trans men?
00:55:11.000 They can't.
00:55:12.000 It doesn't work.
00:55:12.000 Oh.
00:55:13.000 So they don't develop sperm?
00:55:15.000 Yeah.
00:55:15.000 Really?
00:55:16.000 Of course.
00:55:16.000 Is that really common?
00:55:17.000 Yeah.
00:55:18.000 Weren't you tested when you were trying to get pregnant?
00:55:21.000 No, I just knocked her up, dude.
00:55:23.000 Come on.
00:55:23.000 Well, maybe I wasn't either.
00:55:25.000 But anyway, it certainly was a thing.
00:55:27.000 Just shot them in there and watched the fireworks.
00:55:28.000 Yeah.
00:55:29.000 See, there you go.
00:55:31.000 See, you're more of a man.
00:55:32.000 You've just proven, yet again, that you're more of a man.
00:55:34.000 There's the woman.
00:55:35.000 Yeah, Jesus Christ.
00:55:36.000 Well, when you...
00:55:36.000 Yeah, that's not a great picture.
00:55:38.000 It doesn't give you a sense of how...
00:55:39.000 It does, though.
00:55:39.000 Look at the thighs and the bulge.
00:55:41.000 Yeah, but she...
00:55:42.000 Look at the bulge.
00:55:43.000 Well...
00:55:44.000 Three times as high as most women.
00:55:45.000 Whoa.
00:55:46.000 Okay, so...
00:55:47.000 Reports leaked out.
00:55:49.000 That doesn't really mean anything, no.
00:55:50.000 I don't think she's ever really been tested.
00:55:51.000 I believe she has.
00:55:53.000 See if she's been tested.
00:55:55.000 What does the test say?
00:55:56.000 But it leaked.
00:55:57.000 She was subjected to sex verification test after she won the world championships in Germany, and what does it say?
00:56:03.000 Yeah, leaked.
00:56:04.000 Okay.
00:56:04.000 The results were supposed to be confidential, but reports leaked out that she had testosterone levels three times as high as most women.
00:56:11.000 Other intimate details about her anatomy were also reported.
00:56:15.000 Yeah.
00:56:15.000 Semea became targeted...
00:56:17.000 Semenya?
00:56:18.000 Semenya?
00:56:19.000 Yeah.
00:56:19.000 How brutal.
00:56:20.000 Your first name is...
00:56:20.000 The first part of your name is semen.
00:56:23.000 Seaman-ya became targeted with abuse on social media.
00:56:27.000 But what does it say?
00:56:29.000 So is it saying that she's a hermaphrodite?
00:56:31.000 Because they were talking about her...
00:56:32.000 You know what this is?
00:56:32.000 The clitoral size, maybe?
00:56:34.000 It's the equivalent of pretty much every article written about Trump by the New York Times.
00:56:39.000 Why?
00:56:39.000 What do you mean?
00:56:40.000 A report was leaked by, you know, senior officials said, where's the actual evidence of any of this stuff?
00:56:47.000 I don't see it.
00:56:48.000 Yeah, what is it?
00:56:49.000 It doesn't say anything.
00:56:50.000 Doesn't matter.
00:56:51.000 So, she passed the test.
00:56:52.000 Doesn't matter.
00:56:52.000 She must have passed the test.
00:56:53.000 Doesn't matter.
00:56:54.000 Here's the thing.
00:56:55.000 I think...
00:56:56.000 My name is Seaman.
00:56:56.000 That's brutal.
00:56:57.000 If I were a woman athlete, right?
00:56:59.000 Yeah.
00:57:01.000 I would want rules established...
00:57:05.000 It's like I would want rules established defining the physical characteristics of any of my potential opponents, right?
00:57:14.000 So it could be whatever, bone density, muscle mass, you know, testosterone levels, you name it.
00:57:21.000 You could probably speak to this better than I could, but I'm sure there's all sorts of ways you could actually define that pretty precisely.
00:57:27.000 And you can test those things, and you can say, okay, you get to be in this.
00:57:29.000 It's like weight classes in fighting.
00:57:31.000 It's no different, really, right?
00:57:32.000 I mean, you're not allowed to fight someone who's 30 pounds lighter than you are.
00:57:38.000 And so you could do that in any sport.
00:57:40.000 You could say, right, if you're above a certain height or above a certain weight or have this much muscle or that much testosterone, you're not allowed in this category.
00:57:48.000 And there's nothing wrong with that.
00:57:49.000 There's nothing sexist about that.
00:57:50.000 There's nothing anti-trans about that.
00:57:52.000 It's just a different category.
00:57:53.000 But that's all that matters, right?
00:57:55.000 The problem was that Fallon Fox had, as you said, more muscle, more testosterone, all these physical characteristics that were fundamentally different than all of the other women fighting in that category in that particular game.
00:58:09.000 That's all you gotta do.
00:58:10.000 Well, the problem is that you can do damage to the person.
00:58:13.000 I know.
00:58:13.000 It's not as simple as playing basketball against someone who had more testosterone.
00:58:17.000 Yeah, it's terrible to do that.
00:58:18.000 But there's also a type of thinking that's involved in discussing this where you have to follow a line of thinking.
00:58:26.000 And if you don't follow a line of thinking, you're transphobic, you're a hateful person, you're a bigot.
00:58:31.000 And that line of thinking is not science-based.
00:58:33.000 It's just not.
00:58:34.000 When you talk to board-certified endocrinologists, when they talk about trans people, One of the things that they talk about is the fact that when you take estrogen, it actually maintains bone density.
00:58:45.000 It's the reason why they give estrogen to women who have osteoporosis.
00:58:48.000 So this idea that your bone density decreases when you go from being a man to a woman, it's bullshit.
00:58:54.000 You're taking testosterone, your bone density is going to stay the same or get thicker.
00:59:00.000 But if you're taking estrogen, your bone density is also going to maintain.
00:59:05.000 It's going to help you maintain.
00:59:06.000 So when you remove the body's ability to produce testosterone There was a whole article in Bloody Elbow, MMA, by this board-certified endocrinologist, Dr. Ramona Krutzik, and what she did different than everything else,
00:59:22.000 all these other articles, is she's not a gender reassignment surgeon, okay?
00:59:27.000 All these other people that are commenting on this have a vested interest in it being completely neutral.
00:59:33.000 There's all these people that are trans people that are commenting on it, and they're doing it from a very biased perspective.
00:59:39.000 Because we're not talking about mountain biking, which there was a woman who used to be a man who dominated mountain biking, and it became a giant issue with people.
00:59:47.000 They first supported her, and then she was winning by such enormous margins.
00:59:51.000 They were like, well, what the fuck?
00:59:52.000 Same as the woman in Australia that's the weightlifter.
00:59:55.000 This is different.
00:59:56.000 This is fighting.
00:59:57.000 And I think fighting, uniquely...
00:59:59.000 Fallon Fox almost killed that woman.
01:00:01.000 She beat the shit out of a few girls.
01:00:02.000 But then she lost to Ashley Evans-Smith, who is a biological female.
01:00:06.000 You know, so you can beat someone like that.
01:00:09.000 Of course.
01:00:09.000 But again, Ronda Rousey would probably beat the fuck out of most 135 pound men in the world that she meets.
01:00:16.000 Of course.
01:00:16.000 You know, it's just a matter of skill level.
01:00:18.000 It's no different than PED, like banning PEDs.
01:00:20.000 We want to do that, don't we?
01:00:21.000 It's the same thing.
01:00:22.000 It's altering the body's chemistry, its abilities, right?
01:00:25.000 And so you don't want to compete against someone who has that difference.
01:00:29.000 Unless you know, right?
01:00:30.000 Unless you know.
01:00:32.000 Or unless you're allowed to do the same thing, then it's all fair.
01:00:36.000 But you couldn't.
01:00:37.000 The woman would have to take testosterone and balance it out, and then you'd have to find out how would you balance out 30 years of your body naturally producing testosterone, increasing your ligament strength, increasing your tendon strength.
01:00:47.000 The mechanical advantages of male hips are very different when it comes to kicking, when it comes to certain types of movement.
01:00:55.000 Women's hips go out and then their legs kind of come in at an angle, and it's not the best for kicking.
01:01:01.000 It's not the best for a lot of different activities.
01:01:03.000 Right.
01:01:04.000 So I would just say that a trans woman is absolutely, in my view, a woman.
01:01:10.000 Fine.
01:01:11.000 That's their identity, and I respect that, however they want to identify.
01:01:15.000 Because the category of woman, as you said, is so fluid.
01:01:20.000 I'm not going to say there's any absolute about that either, that it can change, and it comes from her ideas, but still, I respect that, and I'll call you a woman, I'll treat you like a woman.
01:01:30.000 But that means we have to change the sports, right?
01:01:33.000 And we have to have just different categories.
01:01:34.000 Instead of woman sports and man sports, we need to have, and woman and man categories in those sports, we need to have different categories that are about people's physical composition.
01:01:45.000 What you're made up of, right?
01:01:46.000 So just like weight classes and PEDs, there's no difference to me.
01:01:49.000 Well, or there could be the argument that a person, a trans woman, is a woman.
01:01:54.000 But when you're talking about athletic competition, you're talking about a very biological thing.
01:01:59.000 I'm saying if you take...
01:02:00.000 You might have to say that someone has to be a biological female to compete against females.
01:02:03.000 But I'm saying if you take the gender out of the sport, right?
01:02:06.000 If you stop calling these gendered names, then it's definitely not a trans issue.
01:02:10.000 Hmm.
01:02:11.000 It's just about what your body's made up of.
01:02:12.000 So, for instance...
01:02:13.000 So, instead of just weight classes...
01:02:14.000 Like, Jermaine Durandamy is pro...
01:02:16.000 I don't know.
01:02:16.000 Well, Ronda Rousey, more likely, is probably made up, just physically, more like closer to a man, closer to Yoel Romero than Andy Dick.
01:02:25.000 How dare you?
01:02:26.000 She's gonna find us, and she's gonna find you.
01:02:28.000 Gosh, I hope so.
01:02:30.000 Someone likes to be hit.
01:02:32.000 Yeah, really.
01:02:33.000 Choked out real fast.
01:02:36.000 Yeah, so that means I would just say there should be a category in the sport for people who are made up of that composition, and that could be people that the society identifies as men or who identify as women or whatever.
01:02:49.000 Oh, man.
01:02:50.000 That's a slippery slope.
01:02:51.000 Why?
01:02:51.000 There's a lot of work there.
01:02:53.000 How would you define it?
01:02:56.000 What parameters would you use?
01:02:58.000 Bone density?
01:02:58.000 Well, you know, a lot of African-American women have similar bone density to white males.
01:03:03.000 So does that mean you should be able to fight black chicks?
01:03:06.000 Maybe.
01:03:06.000 Yeah.
01:03:08.000 It depends, right?
01:03:09.000 So, well, no, actually, they kind of are doing it.
01:03:11.000 Anna Wolf might fuck you up.
01:03:12.000 Oh, man.
01:03:13.000 I'm not messing with Anna Wolf.
01:03:14.000 Even though she's, like, what, 60 years old?
01:03:16.000 She could still crush me.
01:03:17.000 She's probably 50. She could crush me.
01:03:19.000 No, but, I mean, they are doing it.
01:03:20.000 In fact, we just saw this with, what's her name?
01:03:23.000 Castor Samania?
01:03:24.000 Oh, what are they doing with her?
01:03:26.000 Well, it's the thing about testosterone levels.
01:03:27.000 But what are they doing?
01:03:28.000 Are they making her...
01:03:29.000 No, there's a number for testosterone that you have to be below, right, to compete in that sport as a woman.
01:03:36.000 So that's what I'm talking about.
01:03:38.000 Just add more categories, not just testosterone.
01:03:40.000 You have to have...
01:03:41.000 That's what this says.
01:03:42.000 If your testosterone goes above a certain level, you're not allowed to compete as a woman.
01:03:47.000 So I'm saying, have that category and add more categories like that.
01:03:51.000 And don't call it woman and men.
01:03:52.000 Just say it's category X. You get to compete in this category if your testosterone...
01:03:57.000 Yeah, but do you see what they're saying though?
01:03:59.000 But it's so ridiculously loose.
01:04:02.000 It's saying a female with hypo-androgynism who is recognized as a female in law shall be eligible to compete in women's competition in athletics provided that she has androgen levels below the male range.
01:04:14.000 Like, all you have to do is just be like a couple notches below the male range, which is...
01:04:19.000 Way above!
01:04:20.000 But I'm saying, that's all objectively determined.
01:04:23.000 You can do that.
01:04:24.000 They're trying to get her to take suppression medication or...
01:04:26.000 That's what I'm saying.
01:04:27.000 Okay.
01:04:28.000 This is all proving my point.
01:04:30.000 These are objectively determined.
01:04:31.000 So they're making her tone it down.
01:04:33.000 We have numbers, right?
01:04:35.000 We say, if you hit this number for this category, you don't get to compete here.
01:04:40.000 But this is so rare.
01:04:42.000 I mean, she has a disease, essentially, where she produces too much testosterone.
01:04:45.000 But it would apply to trans people, is what I'm saying.
01:04:47.000 But would it?
01:04:50.000 Because even so, you're still dealing with the mechanical advantages of the male frame, the wider shoulders, especially when it comes to hitting.
01:04:56.000 We could do that, too.
01:04:58.000 We do it with weight.
01:04:58.000 We do it with weight already.
01:05:00.000 Why not?
01:05:01.000 Height?
01:05:02.000 Sure.
01:05:02.000 Boy, a lot of work there.
01:05:04.000 In fact, I've thought about that.
01:05:05.000 Have you?
01:05:06.000 Well, look, I'm sure you have, too.
01:05:07.000 Like, in weight classes, right?
01:05:09.000 Like, I have a huge advantage.
01:05:10.000 I always use it.
01:05:11.000 I'm 6'1", 165, and I have really long arms.
01:05:15.000 So, like, most of the time, people can't get inside my jab.
01:05:19.000 Like, I just put it out there.
01:05:21.000 And it's just a thing.
01:05:22.000 I often feel like this isn't really fair, in a way.
01:05:25.000 You know, I don't have to be as good as they are.
01:05:27.000 I can be looser.
01:05:29.000 And it's true for a lot of fighters.
01:05:30.000 But once they get inside on you, they have an advantage.
01:05:33.000 Like Mike Tyson used that advantage of being 5'10 on a lot of fighters.
01:05:38.000 I don't know if it was an advantage.
01:05:38.000 I think he just was really good at overcoming it.
01:05:41.000 I think there's an advantage in fighting and having shorter arms and being lower.
01:05:46.000 He did the peekaboo past the jab.
01:05:48.000 He maximized the style.
01:05:49.000 Really, really well.
01:05:49.000 He did that thing.
01:05:50.000 As did Rocky Marciano.
01:05:52.000 And then he had a really good way of slipping the jab and moving constantly until he was inside on you and then he would crush you with his huge left hook.
01:06:01.000 But once he's there, he doesn't have an advantage on you.
01:06:03.000 He's just there and he's Mike Tyson.
01:06:05.000 But you don't think it's harder for a guy with long-ass spider arms to punch a guy who is in tight on you with short arms and is throwing shots to the body like Tyson would do?
01:06:14.000 I don't think so.
01:06:15.000 I think there's advantages, as long as you're physically competent, there's advantages in particular movements and positions to all sorts of different body styles.
01:06:23.000 It's very true in jiu-jitsu.
01:06:25.000 Guys with long arms and long legs in jiu-jitsu have massive advantages with chokes.
01:06:29.000 You guys can get darses and guillotines and triangles easier, but you can also get armbar easier.
01:06:34.000 There's mechanical advantages in arm barring you.
01:06:37.000 There's some weird advantages to being like a Husamar Paul Harris, stocky, short guy.
01:06:43.000 Well, how about basketball?
01:06:45.000 There you go.
01:06:45.000 Oh, it's all advantages in Utah, right?
01:06:47.000 And in fact, there are leagues, actually there might be professional leagues, which are six feet and under leagues.
01:06:53.000 Really?
01:06:53.000 Yeah.
01:06:53.000 Yeah.
01:06:54.000 Many leagues.
01:06:55.000 Many people.
01:06:56.000 This is very common because most people are under six feet tall, right?
01:06:58.000 So who could never play in the NBA, even though they're amazing basketball players, but they just don't have the arm length and they don't have the height and all that.
01:07:05.000 That's interesting.
01:07:06.000 So we just need more divisions.
01:07:07.000 The UFC should have like, you know, welterweight should be, there should be heights within it too.
01:07:12.000 Isaiah Thomas was only 5'9"?
01:07:14.000 This is a current Isaiah Thomas.
01:07:15.000 He's a really good player for the number one East team in the East.
01:07:18.000 He's fantastic.
01:07:18.000 There's a lot of guys that are under six foot, though.
01:07:20.000 He's a great, great player.
01:07:21.000 They're around six foot.
01:07:22.000 They get listed higher, too.
01:07:24.000 They cheat.
01:07:25.000 Interesting.
01:07:26.000 So he's sort of the exception that proves the rule.
01:07:28.000 He's 5'9", but he's really successful.
01:07:29.000 Well, you remember Muggsy Bogues?
01:07:31.000 Yeah, he's 5'3".
01:07:32.000 Wasn't he like 5'6", or something like that?
01:07:33.000 5'3".
01:07:33.000 5'3"?
01:07:34.000 Muggsy was 5'3", and dunked.
01:07:37.000 No, he didn't dunk.
01:07:37.000 Yes, he did.
01:07:38.000 5'7".
01:07:39.000 No, I'm pretty sure...
01:07:40.000 Muggsy never...
01:07:41.000 Pull it up, Jamie.
01:07:42.000 Jamie's going to jack you in this.
01:07:43.000 This is my wheelhouse.
01:07:45.000 You're in Jamie's wheelhouse in a big way right now.
01:07:48.000 I'm pretty sure he dunked.
01:07:49.000 Okay, Muggsy Bogues dunk.
01:07:50.000 It may not have been a super clean dunk, but it was a dunk.
01:07:53.000 Let's see.
01:07:55.000 Let's see if he dunked.
01:07:56.000 We'll go with a video.
01:07:57.000 That's my life goal, was to say, pull it up, Jamie.
01:08:00.000 Okay, this is about Webb.
01:08:03.000 Does it have a video of him dunking?
01:08:07.000 I don't think so.
01:08:08.000 I've never seen it in my entire life.
01:08:09.000 You're going to want to Google Muggsy Bogues dunk.
01:08:10.000 Yeah, I would have seen it in my life.
01:08:12.000 Google Muggsy Bogues dunk.
01:08:14.000 He did Google that.
01:08:15.000 Boom, right there.
01:08:16.000 Crazy Muggsy Bogues dunk, Jamie.
01:08:18.000 Number two on Google.
01:08:19.000 Let's see.
01:08:20.000 I've never ever seen this in my entire life.
01:08:25.000 Dude, he just flew through.
01:08:26.000 That's in a video game.
01:08:28.000 That's probably not real.
01:08:29.000 But he really did.
01:08:30.000 I promise you.
01:08:32.000 My memory is that it wasn't a clean, super clean dunk, but he did get the ball above the rim with his hand on it.
01:08:38.000 We're gonna get to the bottom of this, ladies and gentlemen.
01:08:41.000 Jamie will get to the bottom of this.
01:08:42.000 This is pretty essential.
01:08:44.000 If we don't solve this, This is a failure of a podcast.
01:08:47.000 There's a big difference, I think, between team sports where you could have an advantage of having a Spud Webb or a Muggsy Bogues, a very mobile, agile kind of guy who can set plays up versus a guy like Shaq, big giant guy who can get in the way of things.
01:09:02.000 I think there's all sorts of advantages and disadvantages of size.
01:09:05.000 When you're talking about individuals against individuals, that's where things get weird.
01:09:10.000 And then when you're talking about combat sports, that's where people have just...
01:09:14.000 There's some people that just have these tremendous advantages.
01:09:17.000 You know what Paul Daly is?
01:09:19.000 Mm-hmm.
01:09:20.000 Ridiculous power.
01:09:21.000 Like, almost unfair.
01:09:22.000 Like, he hits guys and just obliterates them.
01:09:25.000 Yeah, but you know that's not just strength.
01:09:27.000 It's technique.
01:09:28.000 Yeah.
01:09:28.000 And it's also geometry.
01:09:31.000 Body geometry.
01:09:32.000 Yes.
01:09:32.000 A lot of skinny dudes like me have power.
01:09:35.000 Some, yeah.
01:09:36.000 A lot.
01:09:36.000 A lot, right?
01:09:38.000 And a lot of big...
01:09:38.000 Tommy Hearns is the best example, right?
01:09:40.000 There's a bunch of them.
01:09:41.000 But he's also like this wide, and then his waist is like this, and this angle just...
01:09:46.000 I've thought it's...
01:09:47.000 Torque.
01:09:47.000 I've actually thought it's shoulder width.
01:09:49.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
01:09:50.000 Yeah, you get that torque.
01:09:51.000 And the waist like this.
01:09:52.000 So the shoulder is like that torque.
01:09:54.000 Yep, exactly.
01:09:55.000 I mean, it's just crazy.
01:09:56.000 You have more to swing that way.
01:09:58.000 Oh, for sure.
01:09:58.000 Wide shoulders.
01:10:00.000 Rotate around the spine.
01:10:01.000 Oftentimes equate, especially when they learn striking sports at an early age, they learn how to develop that snap and fluidity to their strikes.
01:10:09.000 And a lot of muscle-bound guys don't.
01:10:11.000 Or if they do, they have it for like 30 seconds.
01:10:14.000 I want you to go talk to Dana and get this going.
01:10:17.000 We need height.
01:10:20.000 We need testosterone, you know, divisions.
01:10:24.000 It's too complicated.
01:10:25.000 Testosterone level divisions.
01:10:26.000 We're not going to have that.
01:10:26.000 Estrogen level divisions.
01:10:28.000 I think we are literally one generation away from being able to use CRISPR and all these new genetic engineering tools to make people whatever style of person you want.
01:10:40.000 I think you're gonna be able to develop six foot four super athletes that look like Anthony Joshua or Vitaly Klitschko or Vladimir Klitschko.
01:10:48.000 You're gonna be able to make those now.
01:10:50.000 What I would give for bionic knees, right?
01:10:52.000 Your knees are fucked up.
01:10:53.000 They're okay.
01:10:55.000 They're problematic.
01:10:56.000 I can function fine, but they could go out at any time.
01:10:59.000 You know what I mean?
01:11:00.000 If you never had to worry about that, you never had to worry.
01:11:03.000 Can you imagine?
01:11:04.000 Well, if you could just redo it.
01:11:06.000 But I'm telling you what we were talking about before the podcast, what they're doing now with stem cells, with soft tissue injuries, it's tremendous.
01:11:12.000 I mean, it's really amazing.
01:11:14.000 It's never happened before.
01:11:15.000 What they're able to do to people that have meniscus injuries is literally shoot stem cells in there and you regenerate meniscus tissue.
01:11:22.000 I mean, that's just never happened before.
01:11:24.000 And I think that this is baby steps.
01:11:27.000 I think what we're at right now is really, really young.
01:11:29.000 I think 20, 30 years from now, because 20 years ago, they didn't really use it at all.
01:11:35.000 20 years from now, I think it's going to be insane.
01:11:37.000 They're going to be able to...
01:11:38.000 I mean, they regenerated a woman's bladder using her skin tissue.
01:11:42.000 They built her a bladder.
01:11:44.000 She had bladder cancer.
01:11:45.000 They built her a bladder and then reinstalled it in her body.
01:11:49.000 Now she has a functional bladder that came out of her own body that they regenerated.
01:11:53.000 Yeah.
01:11:53.000 I think they're going to be able to do that with tendons and ligaments and all sorts of tissue.
01:11:56.000 I believe it.
01:11:57.000 And hopefully, this is really promising, they're going to be able to do that with brain tissue.
01:12:02.000 So people that have had brain injuries, people that have had CTE, they're hopefully going to be able to use some of these therapies to regenerate brain tissue.
01:12:09.000 Wow.
01:12:10.000 Yes.
01:12:11.000 That's huge.
01:12:12.000 Neuroregenesis is like, that's...
01:12:14.000 That's the promised land.
01:12:15.000 God bless them.
01:12:16.000 I don't know anything about science.
01:12:18.000 I'm just a complete idiot when it comes to math and science, but man, just go for it.
01:12:22.000 And by the way, as far as universities, I am the harshest critics of universities generally, but mostly what I'm talking about is actually the humanities and social sciences when I do that.
01:12:32.000 What goes on in the biology building, the chemistry building, the physics building?
01:12:35.000 I don't know, but I know that what comes out of them is a better life for me and all of us.
01:12:40.000 They're making the stuff that you're talking about, and so go for it.
01:12:45.000 Renegade universities, we're not going to do no science.
01:12:47.000 We're going to let Harvard and MIT keep going.
01:12:50.000 Have at it, guys, because you're doing great stuff.
01:12:53.000 I have no critique of that.
01:12:54.000 As far as I know, there's nothing going on there that's wrong.
01:12:56.000 It's just the humanities and social sciences that are utterly corrupt.
01:12:59.000 Well, we got way off the track here.
01:13:01.000 What we were talking about initially was Jordan Peterson, what you disagree with him when it comes to gender and what you agree with him when it comes to the suppression of expression of professors and people worried about being called racist and sexist and anything else stifling free speech.
01:13:17.000 So what he's facing is even worse than what goes on in the United States in a sense in that it's now legal persecution.
01:13:26.000 He is actually, you know, it's against the law to not use these gender pronouns in your class, which is, that's suppression of speech, that's suppression of academic freedom.
01:13:37.000 It's a complete violation of those things, in fact, and that's totalitarian.
01:13:42.000 I mean, there's nothing...
01:13:43.000 No two ways around it.
01:13:44.000 My uncle, Canada has these laws, right?
01:13:48.000 They have a Human Rights Commission, I think it's called, or Human Something Commission?
01:13:50.000 Yeah, Human Rights Council.
01:13:51.000 Council, and it's like this body of people who sit there and decide who should have a website or not.
01:13:56.000 And my uncle, this actually happened to him about 10 years ago, he was accused of being a Holocaust denier.
01:14:01.000 Because, and I don't even know exactly what he was saying on there, but he's a Ukrainian, and I think he was sort of just defending these Ukrainians who were accused of being Nazis during the World War II. I don't know.
01:14:11.000 Doesn't matter.
01:14:12.000 Even if he were a Holocaust denier, he should have his website, right?
01:14:15.000 The Canadian, you go to that URL, it's shut down, and in fact, they put a banner now.
01:14:19.000 It says, this is now, like, controlled by the Canadian government or something.
01:14:23.000 Whoa.
01:14:24.000 Oh, yeah.
01:14:24.000 No, they have no free speech in Canada.
01:14:26.000 I mean, there's no sort of doctrine, legal or otherwise, in Canada of free speech.
01:14:31.000 It's bad.
01:14:31.000 And that's what Jordan Peterson's facing.
01:14:33.000 It's because he's Canadian.
01:14:33.000 This would not happen in the United States until, of course, you know, the sociologists take control and then they will have these laws.
01:14:41.000 But we don't have them here.
01:14:42.000 So he actually could go to prison.
01:14:45.000 That's what's happening.
01:14:46.000 He could go to prison for not saying zur in his class.
01:14:51.000 There was an article that Vice published that someone linked to me today about this that I did not read yet because I announced that Jordan is going to be returning to the podcast and someone was saying that his interpretation of these laws is greatly exaggerated.
01:15:05.000 See if you can find that.
01:15:06.000 It's a very recent Vice article.
01:15:08.000 I'm pretty sure it's illegal and illegal means you can go to prison ultimately.
01:15:12.000 I don't think Jordan's And I don't think he would exaggerate.
01:15:14.000 No, no, no.
01:15:14.000 I looked into this.
01:15:16.000 That matters a lot to me.
01:15:18.000 Of course.
01:15:18.000 Yeah.
01:15:19.000 I am 100% in solidarity with him on that.
01:15:23.000 And he's completely right that the state, no one should be telling him what to say in his classroom.
01:15:28.000 And certainly he shouldn't be going to prison for it or being threatened in any way legally.
01:15:32.000 Even if it's just a fine.
01:15:33.000 A fine, right?
01:15:34.000 People don't understand this.
01:15:35.000 It's incredible how people don't understand that everything the state does is enforced by the threat of ultimate violence.
01:15:43.000 Right?
01:15:43.000 So my mother even said this recently.
01:15:46.000 She said, oh, it doesn't.
01:15:47.000 There's no violence with parking tickets.
01:15:48.000 They just send you a fine.
01:15:49.000 I said, oh, really?
01:15:50.000 So if you get the fine and you don't pay it, What happens?
01:15:53.000 Oh, we get another notice.
01:15:54.000 And then another notice, right, Mom?
01:15:56.000 And then another notice.
01:15:57.000 And then finally, what happens?
01:15:58.000 Corinne Gaines, this black woman in Maryland a couple years ago, this is exactly what happened.
01:16:02.000 She got a bunch of traffic tickets and she refused to pay them.
01:16:05.000 And ultimately, what happened?
01:16:07.000 The SWAT team came to her house and she pulled a gun and they shot her in the head.
01:16:14.000 That was over traffic fines.
01:16:16.000 Okay, that's what happens.
01:16:17.000 That's what it means to make something illegal.
01:16:19.000 At the end of the day, for it to be meaningful as a law, the state has to use lethal violence to enforce it.
01:16:28.000 Or the potential for lethal violence.
01:16:30.000 Yeah.
01:16:30.000 In other words, if you don't pay your taxes, even if it's, you know, $100 in taxes, ultimately, otherwise the law is meaningless, right?
01:16:37.000 Right.
01:16:37.000 They have to put you in prison or kill you.
01:16:40.000 Well, that was what was most offensive about that Sandra Bland case, when you got to hear the interaction between her and the cop.
01:16:47.000 She did nothing wrong, and this cop is dragging her out of the car, and then ultimately she died, and they don't know how she died.
01:16:54.000 She was pissed off.
01:16:55.000 She talked back because he pulled her over.
01:16:59.000 Right.
01:16:59.000 Because she was being disrespectful.
01:17:02.000 Exactly.
01:17:02.000 But she wasn't.
01:17:03.000 If you listen to the actual recording, she just wasn't following him to the, like, she wasn't treating him with respect that he felt he deserved.
01:17:12.000 Hold on there.
01:17:13.000 I think she was being disrespectful, and that's why she's my hero.
01:17:16.000 I mean, because...
01:17:17.000 Really?
01:17:18.000 You think she was disrespectful?
01:17:19.000 That's why she's a hero.
01:17:21.000 But I don't think she was.
01:17:22.000 Because you shouldn't respect that authority.
01:17:25.000 I mean, it's dangerous.
01:17:26.000 That's why she's a martyr.
01:17:27.000 I wouldn't recommend it to people.
01:17:30.000 I wouldn't tell my son to do that.
01:17:32.000 But he deserved no respect.
01:17:35.000 The law, enforcing that law in that way, treating her in that way in that moment, deserved no respect whatsoever.
01:17:43.000 And that's, to me, why she's the hero.
01:17:45.000 Not that she was a victim.
01:17:47.000 She was a victim.
01:17:48.000 But to me, what was great about her was that she said, no, I'm not going to put up my cigarette.
01:17:52.000 And why did you pull me over for this?
01:17:53.000 This is bullshit.
01:17:54.000 You have no reason to pull me over and do this to me right now.
01:17:56.000 I'm on my way to someplace.
01:17:58.000 I'm trying to get someplace.
01:17:58.000 What was she getting pulled over for?
01:18:00.000 I think it was a...
01:18:01.000 Was it a taillight or something?
01:18:03.000 No, she didn't turn.
01:18:03.000 I think it was a turn signal.
01:18:05.000 Okay.
01:18:06.000 It was something really trivial.
01:18:07.000 Well, I don't think he has the right to tell her to put out her cigarette.
01:18:11.000 So, like, that's not a disrespectful thing.
01:18:13.000 I think he's overstepping his boundaries.
01:18:15.000 They do.
01:18:16.000 They do?
01:18:17.000 In your car?
01:18:18.000 She's smoking a cigarette in her car.
01:18:20.000 They have the right, and I think in some...
01:18:23.000 Municipalities the obligation, because you are supposed to...
01:18:26.000 Here's the thing, Joe.
01:18:27.000 I mean, this is the other thing that the law rests upon.
01:18:31.000 It rests upon us respecting legal authorities.
01:18:34.000 Right.
01:18:35.000 If we don't, there ain't no law.
01:18:36.000 Yeah, but there's no legal authority for you to stop you from doing a lawful act.
01:18:41.000 Like, if she has a cigarette lit in her car, when she gets pulled over, the cop says, pull your cigarette out.
01:18:46.000 What he's doing is just controlling her.
01:18:48.000 I don't think that's a law.
01:18:49.000 They give them latitude.
01:18:50.000 They give the cops latitude in determining who is obeying their orders and not.
01:18:55.000 Really?
01:18:57.000 Yeah.
01:18:58.000 I'm not defending this.
01:18:59.000 I'm saying this is the problem.
01:19:00.000 I'm saying that in court, I would bet you anything, he would say that showed that she wasn't listening to me.
01:19:05.000 She wasn't obeying my orders.
01:19:07.000 I think he told her to put her hands on the car or something, and she had the cigarette in her hand.
01:19:11.000 So she had to take the cigarette out of her hand to do what he was asking...
01:19:14.000 In other words, I'm saying that's all worthy of disrespect.
01:19:18.000 I'm not defending it at all, right?
01:19:21.000 The other thing, though, about this, and this is something I've been working on lately, and I've been doing some work with some people at Freethink Media about this, but is, I think, and I've changed my mind about this.
01:19:34.000 This has been a new thing for me.
01:19:35.000 I've thought about race my whole life, basically, really, really hard, and this is I've changed my mind about this.
01:19:40.000 When things like that happen, Sandra Bland, Mike Brown, Eric Garner, even Walter Scott, the guy who was shot in the back in South Carolina...
01:19:49.000 Is that the guy where they planted the...
01:19:51.000 The taser?
01:19:51.000 Well, that's again...
01:19:53.000 Hold on there.
01:19:54.000 So I, like everyone in the country pretty much, saw those things and thought, A, that's horrific.
01:20:03.000 And B, that's racist.
01:20:06.000 And what people do, overwhelmingly, is they focus on what they believe is the racism of the cop, the individual.
01:20:16.000 That that's what caused those cops to shoot those guns in those moments.
01:20:22.000 I think that's a mistake.
01:20:23.000 For one thing, we will never know why they chose to pull the trigger in that moment.
01:20:29.000 We will never know that it was racist.
01:20:31.000 There's no way to prove that.
01:20:32.000 There's no way to demonstrate it.
01:20:35.000 And there's nothing we can do about it.
01:20:38.000 What can you do to change people's ideas about race or black people?
01:20:43.000 You can't.
01:20:44.000 Certainly not anytime soon.
01:20:46.000 What all those cops were doing in all those instances, and this is why they got off, they were following the law, and they were following police procedure, which actually obligated them to do those things.
01:20:59.000 So Walter Scott, and believe me, I was convinced that was a racist cop, that that was clearly a bad killing.
01:21:09.000 And it was a bad killing, but not for the reasons that people are talking about.
01:21:13.000 I have no way to know whether that cop was racist, and that's why he did that.
01:21:16.000 But we do know, and people have done work on this, that it is very reasonable to assume that he was doing in that moment what he was obligated to do by law, which is, if you look at the video carefully, He very well could have thought that Scott was still holding his taser because Scott grabbed the taser and then dropped it immediately.
01:21:37.000 But if you look at where the cop is looking, he may not have seen that.
01:21:41.000 We're talking about a different thing then because I'm talking about the cop that shot the guy and then dropped the taser near his body.
01:21:47.000 We're talking about the same thing.
01:21:49.000 So the guy grabbed the taser before that?
01:21:52.000 Here's what happened.
01:21:53.000 Walter Scott grabs his taser.
01:21:55.000 He grabbed the cop's taser.
01:21:56.000 I thought he just ran.
01:21:57.000 No.
01:21:58.000 Pulled the taser out of his holster and had it for a second and then started to run and as he's like turning to run he drops it immediately and he's running away and he gets you know a good whatever 10-20 yards away and the cop shoots him in the back.
01:22:11.000 So according to South Carolina police procedure and according to Supreme Court decisions The cop not only had the right, but the obligation to use lethal force because he could have believed in that moment that Scott still held the taser in his hand.
01:22:27.000 If a person takes a police officer's weapon, police are obligated to use lethal force to stop them.
01:22:36.000 So if you look, there's a documentary about this.
01:22:41.000 It's called Frame.
01:22:42.000 I forget the number.
01:22:43.000 I think it's 394. You might be able to find it, Jamie.
01:22:47.000 And it's plausible.
01:22:48.000 It's not definite that this is what happened, but it is plausible.
01:22:50.000 The way the cop was looking, he may not have seen that the taser was on the ground.
01:22:56.000 I'm super confused because I thought that the cop dropped the taser.
01:22:59.000 No, no, hold on.
01:22:59.000 Let me finish.
01:23:00.000 So Scott's running away, 20 yards, shoots him in the back.
01:23:03.000 Then the cop walks over to him.
01:23:06.000 During that time, he does see that the taser's on the ground next to him, next to the cop.
01:23:10.000 He picks up the taser, the cop does, walks over and drops it on the ground next to Scott momentarily and then picks it back up.
01:23:18.000 So who knows what was going on there.
01:23:20.000 He may have been, and sure he may have been trying to cover himself in that moment, but actually he didn't need to.
01:23:26.000 That cop, you know what happened with that trial?
01:23:28.000 It's a hung jury.
01:23:30.000 He's free.
01:23:32.000 Because of this.
01:23:34.000 Because, I'm sure, we don't know for sure, but I know this was the argument made by the cop's lawyer, was that it is totally reasonable to assume that That he believed he had reason to shoot him legally.
01:23:47.000 So that's one part of that story, which is that the law is the problem, not the cop.
01:23:54.000 Stop focusing on that cop.
01:23:55.000 You'll never find out.
01:23:56.000 You'll never be able to prove that he did it because he's a racist.
01:23:59.000 And even if we did, what's that going to get us?
01:24:01.000 That's not going to save anybody the next time this happens, right?
01:24:04.000 But what will save people is if we change those laws.
01:24:08.000 Here's the worst law that really made the whole thing happen in the first place that no one's talking about.
01:24:13.000 The whole thing started when Scott was driving through North Charleston, right?
01:24:17.000 The cop, I think it was a suspended license plate or something, or a taillight, taillight, I think it was a taillight, something trivial, pulls him over.
01:24:24.000 At that time, Scott was in arrears on child support payments.
01:24:29.000 Here we go.
01:24:30.000 You go to prison if you get behind on your child support payments.
01:24:33.000 And he had been, I think, put in jail a few times in his life for this.
01:24:37.000 You get put in prison, and there's a whole bunch of men right now as we speak in prison for that very reason.
01:24:43.000 And these child support payments, by the way, are set by judges often in a system that massively favors the women, the mothers.
01:24:54.000 That whole system, you've never been divorced, right?
01:24:56.000 I have.
01:24:57.000 You know, as soon as you enter it, you see right away that the whole thing is stacked against us.
01:25:02.000 And this is, you know, it's just, look into it if you don't believe me.
01:25:07.000 I believe you.
01:25:07.000 I know many friends have been divorced.
01:25:14.000 As easy on me as you could be.
01:25:16.000 But nonetheless, I ended up paying a lot more child support than she really deserved.
01:25:20.000 And very, but not a lot.
01:25:22.000 I mean, but it was, but a lot of men.
01:25:24.000 Oh, in fact, you do have a friend this happened to, I think, right?
01:25:26.000 Yeah.
01:25:27.000 Yeah, you go into these courtrooms, and it's basically down to a judge.
01:25:30.000 I have a friend who has to pay alimony for the rest of his life.
01:25:32.000 Yeah.
01:25:33.000 He was married for 12 years.
01:25:34.000 He's been divorced for 14. He still has to pay his ex-wife.
01:25:38.000 He's married to a new woman.
01:25:39.000 He has a new family.
01:25:40.000 He didn't even have kids with this woman.
01:25:41.000 He has to pay her forever.
01:25:43.000 Forever.
01:25:44.000 So she dies.
01:25:45.000 Imagine if they had kids.
01:25:45.000 He fucked her so hard she can't work anymore.
01:25:48.000 Forever.
01:25:50.000 How about that?
01:25:51.000 That's a crazy law.
01:25:52.000 There's a lot to say about that.
01:25:54.000 That's a crazy law.
01:25:55.000 When there's kids involved, forget about it.
01:25:57.000 That's a very sexist law, by the way, because that law is implying that this woman is incapable of making it on her own.
01:26:03.000 Thank you.
01:26:03.000 By definition, it's anti-feminist.
01:26:05.000 Yes.
01:26:05.000 It's anti-feminist and it's sexist and it's patriarchal.
01:26:08.000 Right.
01:26:08.000 It is totally patriarchal.
01:26:10.000 Women who support it, they're supporting it because they don't like men.
01:26:13.000 I mean, that literally is what it is.
01:26:15.000 Well, who knows?
01:26:16.000 Well, listen, if you're supporting a woman never having to work again because she married a guy for a certain amount of time, like, relationships come and go.
01:26:23.000 People get tired of each other.
01:26:24.000 People have the right to change.
01:26:25.000 You shouldn't be financially obligated to take care of someone for the rest of their life just because you were married at one point in time.
01:26:32.000 That's crazy.
01:26:32.000 I completely agree.
01:26:33.000 I agree with you.
01:26:33.000 Especially in today's day and age, where my friend is 54, I think he is now, he could live to be 100. So what the fuck?
01:26:41.000 He's got to pay for her for another 46 years?
01:26:43.000 That's insanity.
01:26:44.000 It's phenomenal.
01:26:45.000 Yeah, but again, I agree with you completely.
01:26:48.000 But what you said just then about it being sexist, that's a radical concept that hasn't even, I think, registered with most people.
01:26:57.000 And if many people heard it, they would think you are a sexist yourself for saying it.
01:27:00.000 But you know what?
01:27:01.000 It is inescapable.
01:27:03.000 That that's what's going on.
01:27:05.000 Sexism against men is very common.
01:27:07.000 It's sexism against women, too.
01:27:08.000 That's what we're also saying.
01:27:10.000 And that's the radical part of this, right?
01:27:12.000 It's actually patriarchal in the most fundamental sense, which is that the court is saying that the man should be the provider.
01:27:19.000 I'm going to tell you a story.
01:27:20.000 There's a woman in Florida who is a bit in my act that I'm doing now.
01:27:23.000 It's a true story.
01:27:24.000 There's a woman in Florida who was a cop.
01:27:26.000 She was 25 years old.
01:27:27.000 She pretended to be a high school student.
01:27:29.000 And she's an attractive woman, made friends with his boy.
01:27:33.000 He thought it was his girlfriend.
01:27:34.000 And she talked him into selling her pot and then she arrested him.
01:27:39.000 That only works when you have a 17-year-old boy and a 25-year-old woman.
01:27:44.000 If you had a 25-year-old man throwing dick at your 17-year-old daughter and then he gets her to sell him pot and then he arrests her, there would be people lining the fucking street with torches to kill that guy.
01:27:56.000 But people are sexist against boys.
01:27:58.000 They feel that boy should just keep it in his pants.
01:28:00.000 That boy should know better.
01:28:01.000 And you know, as well as I know, when you're 17 years old, you are a baffled bag of hormones with a boner, just running through the world, trying to figure out what the fuck's going on, and you're 12 months away from being an adult.
01:28:14.000 It's chaos.
01:28:15.000 It's craziness.
01:28:15.000 And to think that this young boy You should be able to think clearly in that moment while this 25-year-old woman is manipulating him.
01:28:23.000 It's insane.
01:28:24.000 But they allowed it, and this kid has a felony on his fucking record right now.
01:28:28.000 Yep.
01:28:28.000 This is the root of the issue with feminism that is current feminism.
01:28:35.000 It's current incarnation.
01:28:36.000 I am a feminist, by the way.
01:28:37.000 How dare you?
01:28:38.000 We can define that.
01:28:38.000 Leave now, sir.
01:28:40.000 How about just being egalitarian?
01:28:42.000 Well, yeah, so...
01:28:44.000 Son of a bitch.
01:28:44.000 Well, that's...
01:28:46.000 Okay.
01:28:47.000 I'm not that either.
01:28:48.000 I'm not an egalitarian.
01:28:50.000 You're not?
01:28:51.000 No.
01:28:51.000 Hold on.
01:28:52.000 Too many topics at once.
01:28:52.000 I'm sorry.
01:28:53.000 Go ahead.
01:28:53.000 Jesus Christ.
01:28:54.000 We go off a lot of branches here.
01:28:56.000 I know.
01:28:56.000 I love it.
01:28:58.000 Where was I going?
01:28:58.000 Oh, this...
01:28:59.000 So what you did was you identified...
01:29:01.000 And I think actually I talked about this the first time I was here, which is that, you know, this is what's to me at the heart of...
01:29:06.000 This is the...
01:29:09.000 Appalling irony at the heart of contemporary feminism as practiced by self-defined feminists.
01:29:15.000 Many, not all, guys, I'm not saying all feminists are like this, but I'd say certainly it's the dominant strain right now, which is that it is at its heart patriarchal.
01:29:26.000 Which it treats women as vulnerable, weak, powerless, incapable of making their own way in this world.
01:29:35.000 And it treats men as the, not just, forget about the men.
01:29:39.000 Forget about how they treat men.
01:29:40.000 It's how they treat women that's sexist.
01:29:43.000 It says that they need protection from the state, which is run by, usually, men.
01:29:49.000 But it's also this other institution.
01:29:51.000 Or, you know, college presidents.
01:29:53.000 We need to protect these women from 19-year-old boys who want to have sex with them.
01:29:58.000 Same thing.
01:29:59.000 They're constantly calling for women to be protected by these institutions, the state, by men.
01:30:05.000 It is patriarchal and sexist, right?
01:30:07.000 At the heart of it.
01:30:08.000 And same thing with family court and divorce law and all that stuff.
01:30:12.000 That's how they get treated.
01:30:13.000 They get treated like they're the ones who need to be taken care of by a man.
01:30:18.000 It's like 1950s sexism.
01:30:21.000 It's like Mad Men sexism.
01:30:23.000 That's what most feminists are calling for now.
01:30:26.000 Well, I disagree when you're talking about child rearing, because I think that Child support should be absolutely mandatory, and it's very important.
01:30:37.000 And if a woman is the only one raising the kids on her own, not only does she need the money for food and housing, but also probably for someone to babysit her kids.
01:30:46.000 There's a lot of factors involved.
01:30:48.000 I totally agree.
01:30:50.000 If the man's not in the scene, he owes money, for sure.
01:30:54.000 He has a responsibility.
01:30:56.000 And as a father, at the very least, that's what you should be doing, is contributing financially.
01:31:02.000 I totally agree.
01:31:02.000 I totally agree.
01:31:03.000 I'm not opposed to paying child support.
01:31:05.000 My problem is alimony.
01:31:06.000 Alimony is weird.
01:31:07.000 Yeah, that makes no sense at all.
01:31:25.000 All the way through your PhD program, she was going to give you money so you didn't have to worry about anything but your education.
01:31:30.000 And then once you got out, then you guys could share income.
01:31:33.000 But somewhere along the way, she decided she was done with you, and then you're fucked, but you're in the middle of this program that you have to pay for.
01:31:39.000 I don't think it's unreasonable to say that she should give you until you could figure your own system out.
01:31:45.000 So you don't have to quit your PhD program and go get a job somewhere and get an apartment and a car.
01:31:51.000 I don't think that's unreasonable.
01:31:55.000 What's unreasonable is saying that because you guys were together for a certain amount of time, she has to pay you for the rest of your life.
01:32:01.000 Sure.
01:32:01.000 That's insanity.
01:32:02.000 Sure.
01:32:03.000 And that's current.
01:32:03.000 I agree.
01:32:04.000 That's real.
01:32:04.000 I agree.
01:32:05.000 That's sexist.
01:32:06.000 But should that be legal, though?
01:32:07.000 Should that be legally enforced?
01:32:09.000 Should courts be deciding how long the alimony is paid?
01:32:12.000 No!
01:32:12.000 That's crazy.
01:32:15.000 I don't know.
01:32:16.000 How has that happened?
01:32:17.000 Like, what's the motivation behind that for the courts to succumb or to give in to this?
01:32:21.000 I just explained it to you.
01:32:22.000 It's sexism.
01:32:23.000 It's patriarchy.
01:32:24.000 And the feminists are playing along with it.
01:32:26.000 That's it.
01:32:27.000 It's this idea that women can't make...
01:32:29.000 I mean, aren't there a lot of men involved in those courts?
01:32:33.000 I mean, why are they allowing all this to happen?
01:32:35.000 Yeah, and most of them think basically like feminists, or at least they are expected to behave and make decisions like feminists.
01:32:41.000 Feminism has become dominant in that way in our culture.
01:32:43.000 But this has been going on for decades.
01:32:45.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:32:45.000 These laws have existed long before feminism was prevalent in our culture.
01:32:49.000 That's my point.
01:32:49.000 It went from sexist patriarchy, those laws.
01:32:52.000 Oh, I see what you're saying.
01:32:53.000 So feminism is basically continuing that stuff in its name.
01:32:56.000 Piggyback on it and just switching up the definition.
01:32:59.000 Let me say really loud and clear, there have always been feminists who hate this stuff as much as you and I do.
01:33:06.000 Camille Paglia type feminists.
01:33:08.000 Many of them, okay?
01:33:09.000 And they have been loud and clear about this for a long, long time, and I love them, and they're my heroes, and I've learned from them.
01:33:14.000 I've learned these things from them, okay?
01:33:17.000 But the ones who really are powerful and dominant in the media, the ones we hear from, the public intellectuals, the academics, government leaders, The people who end up in the White House, you know, Obama's staff in HHS, Health and Human Services,
01:33:33.000 and the Department of Education, became very clear to me that all these sexual assault laws and rules that came out of there, they were coming right out of colleges.
01:33:42.000 And they were really of that.
01:33:44.000 They were of the sort of college feminist movement.
01:33:56.000 Yeah.
01:33:59.000 Anybody interested, review those earlier podcasts about...
01:34:03.000 Your college, Occidental.
01:34:04.000 Well, yeah, there's many colleges.
01:34:06.000 And, you know, there's a whole backlash now, right?
01:34:07.000 There's a huge...
01:34:08.000 It's all turning back.
01:34:09.000 And I knew it was going to happen.
01:34:10.000 Right.
01:34:10.000 Now they're completely being decimated.
01:34:13.000 There's hundreds or maybe even thousands of men who are suing in court, and many of them are winning right now for good reason, because there was no due process, because they weren't allowed to, you know, ask questions.
01:34:22.000 Well, that poor boy, the mattress boy, where that girl put a fucking mattress on her back and dragged her on campus, and then...
01:34:30.000 Took her graduation speech with a mattress.
01:34:33.000 They went on stage with a mattress.
01:34:35.000 I mean, the whole thing was so fucking crazy.
01:34:37.000 Oh, yeah.
01:34:38.000 Yeah, there's this fantastic sex worker activist named Christine Pereira, who's in Vegas.
01:34:44.000 She tweeted something like, when that happened, she said, fuck you, mattress girl.
01:34:48.000 For those of us who have really been raped, you're a fucking disgrace.
01:34:51.000 Ooh.
01:34:52.000 She went off.
01:34:53.000 It was something like that, yeah, and it was...
01:34:54.000 Yeah, but that girl seems pretty crazy, that mattress girl.
01:34:57.000 Yeah, that was an extreme example.
01:34:58.000 But that boy is suing that school, luckily.
01:35:00.000 Yeah, they're all suing, and many of them are winning, and I don't know what happened in those cases.
01:35:05.000 I don't even know what happened to Mattress Girl, for sure.
01:35:07.000 I know that there's all kinds of evidence that sure looks like it didn't happen the way she said it did, but I don't know for sure, and I never will.
01:35:13.000 We will never know.
01:35:14.000 You can't know.
01:35:15.000 But what we do know, for absolute sure, is that there's been terrible or no due process in those cases, right?
01:35:21.000 And so that's the problem.
01:35:22.000 I mean, that basically the accuser gets to win every time.
01:35:27.000 Imagine if that was our legal system writ large, right?
01:35:30.000 Right.
01:35:31.000 Joe, you stole a million dollars from me yesterday.
01:35:33.000 All right, put him in jail.
01:35:34.000 Right.
01:35:34.000 That's basically what's happened.
01:35:35.000 Exactly.
01:35:36.000 Okay?
01:35:36.000 Yeah.
01:35:36.000 Well, I mean, it got so crazy that even Rolling Stone printed a false rape case, that gang rape case, the UVA case.
01:35:45.000 Astonishing.
01:35:45.000 Which is just, how did a company that's been in the journalism business, as long as they've been, how did they fuck that up?
01:35:54.000 Yeah, that was the turning point, I think, when that came out that it was completely made up.
01:35:58.000 I think since then, it's started to turn.
01:36:01.000 Do you think that's good that things like that happen so that you realize why it's important to have checks and balances and that people, it reaffirms this idea of real journalism is important to have your facts in order, to have checks and double check things and make sure you know what the fuck you're printing.
01:36:18.000 I think it's good for society.
01:36:19.000 I think it's terrible for John Doe.
01:36:21.000 All the John Doe's out there, all those men who were accused and expelled and had their names ruined and their careers ruined, college careers destroyed and all that stuff, right?
01:36:30.000 But yes.
01:36:31.000 And also, even if you're exonerated, the emotional turmoil that you go through, there's no way they can reward you for that or compensate you for that, rather.
01:36:39.000 But that whole thing, as I said before, is part of this sort of ironic feminist patriarchy ideology, right?
01:36:48.000 Which is, you know, we need protection.
01:36:51.000 We can't say no to men.
01:36:54.000 We can't stop them by saying no.
01:36:57.000 We need help just there.
01:36:59.000 We need the college president to save us or the cops or someone.
01:37:03.000 It's incredible.
01:37:05.000 Well, then there's also this thing where two people are drinking, and if the two people are drinking, the girl is getting raped.
01:37:12.000 There you go.
01:37:12.000 Whereas the guy's not getting raped.
01:37:14.000 Because women are incapable of controlling themselves when they're drunk.
01:37:18.000 It's sexist as hell.
01:37:19.000 Exactly, because the man's drunk too, but somehow or another it doesn't matter, even if they're both sending texts back and forth, do you have condoms, like the Occidental case.
01:37:27.000 It's patriarchal.
01:37:28.000 Women are...
01:37:30.000 Children.
01:37:30.000 They're daughters.
01:37:31.000 They need to be taken care of by dad.
01:37:33.000 And the sons are men.
01:37:34.000 Yeah.
01:37:35.000 Even though they're just the same age and they're boys.
01:37:37.000 Exactly.
01:37:37.000 Yeah.
01:37:37.000 They have full agency.
01:37:39.000 It's sexist.
01:37:40.000 The women are daughters.
01:37:41.000 Yeah.
01:37:42.000 It is sexist.
01:37:43.000 It's incredible.
01:37:43.000 Yeah.
01:37:44.000 So, okay.
01:37:46.000 Gender, Jordan Peterson.
01:37:48.000 So I'm completely absolutely with him.
01:37:52.000 When it comes to that.
01:37:53.000 When it comes to policing of language.
01:37:55.000 Right.
01:37:56.000 But he, as I said, I could be wrong about this, but it sounded to me, and I've listened to him on your show, and I've listened to him elsewhere, and a lot of people have pointed him to me and vice versa because they think we agree on these things and we don't, which is that he thinks, seems to me, that gender is biologically determined.
01:38:14.000 That there are two genders, they're fixed in nature, and that's the end of that discussion.
01:38:17.000 I don't know if he's ever said that.
01:38:19.000 I really don't think he has.
01:38:21.000 I really don't think he has.
01:38:22.000 I think he's said that when it comes to gender identity, that he doesn't believe that we need more pronouns.
01:38:28.000 No, he thinks it's just wrong if you think you're a woman when you were born with a penis.
01:38:33.000 It's just sort of absolutely wrong.
01:38:36.000 I think you would have to find him saying that before you can say that.
01:38:39.000 I'm really glad to hear you say that, because I wasn't sure where you stood on that.
01:38:42.000 No, I mean, look, man.
01:38:43.000 That's a big deal.
01:38:44.000 I think it can get super weird when, okay, how about Rachel Dolezal?
01:38:51.000 She identifies as being black.
01:38:53.000 Great, yeah.
01:38:53.000 She's transracial.
01:38:55.000 How do you feel about that?
01:38:56.000 I think she's correct.
01:38:59.000 Not, now hang on, let me tell you what correct means there.
01:39:04.000 Not in an absolute way, right?
01:39:08.000 Not in a scientific, objective way, but it's just as true as anything else.
01:39:15.000 Meaning that, because, so race...
01:39:18.000 And here comes Sam Harris now, and I'm sure Jordan Peterson's in this boat, too.
01:39:23.000 But I know Sam Harris is, because I just heard him talking about this with Charles Murray.
01:39:27.000 He believes there are races of people.
01:39:30.000 He thinks that race is a real thing.
01:39:32.000 He's definitely subtle about it and nuanced.
01:39:34.000 He says, you know, the divisions between races and the lines are blurry.
01:39:39.000 But he believes there's a biological basis to race.
01:39:41.000 He's very clear about that.
01:39:43.000 And that is...
01:39:44.000 To me, absurd and completely unscientific, and it's easily disprovable according to his own standards and by scientific standards.
01:39:53.000 You see a black guy from Kenya, you see a Chinese guy from China.
01:39:58.000 What's the difference?
01:39:59.000 No difference?
01:40:00.000 Well, here's the answer.
01:40:01.000 You tell me, right?
01:40:03.000 Which is that, so historically, the differences between them have changed.
01:40:08.000 That we, people, human beings, have said different things, have created different categories, and filled those categories with different characteristics.
01:40:18.000 Over the centuries, those have changed constantly, right?
01:40:22.000 And my first time I was on here, we had a long discussion about what's in my book, Renegade History on Immigrants.
01:40:27.000 The Irish and the Italians and the Jews, when they got here to the United States, here and in Europe, they were largely considered to be Negroes.
01:40:37.000 Right?
01:40:38.000 Right.
01:40:38.000 And now, they're as white as anybody.
01:40:40.000 Right.
01:40:41.000 So, what are they?
01:40:42.000 At that time, in the early 20th century, it was not like, when I say common belief, I mean it was taught in schools, the following.
01:40:52.000 Taught at Harvard, the following.
01:40:54.000 That Europeans were made up of three distinct races.
01:40:59.000 There were the Nordics in Northern Europe.
01:41:02.000 The Alpines in Central Europe and the Mediterranean in Southern Europe.
01:41:06.000 And they were very different biologically.
01:41:09.000 The Nordics were rational, intelligent, disciplined.
01:41:15.000 They were the ones who made civilization.
01:41:17.000 They should run the country.
01:41:19.000 The Alpines were okay.
01:41:21.000 They could be decent farmers, but they're never going to do algebra, and they certainly can't run a government.
01:41:25.000 The Mediterranean's were basically either like Negroes or really close, and therefore should be slaves or just peasants.
01:41:34.000 That's my people.
01:41:35.000 Yeah, I know.
01:41:35.000 Yeah, maybe you're talking about a long time ago.
01:41:39.000 No, we're talking about 100 years ago, which historically...
01:41:41.000 That's a long time ago, if you're holding your breath.
01:41:43.000 But you know, you love ancient history.
01:41:45.000 I mean, if you look at the whole sweep of human history, that's five minutes ago.
01:41:48.000 Right.
01:41:48.000 It is.
01:41:49.000 But it's still a long time in terms of how we address it today.
01:41:53.000 But if you address it today, if you're looking at someone from China, or you're looking at a dark black man from Kenya, there's something different about them.
01:42:01.000 Do you think it's just melanin?
01:42:02.000 Sure.
01:42:03.000 Of course there's something different about them.
01:42:04.000 Right.
01:42:05.000 Many different things.
01:42:05.000 So where do you draw the line around races, though?
01:42:09.000 So take all the people in Kenya.
01:42:12.000 Which ones are Kenyans and which ones?
01:42:15.000 Are they all Kenyans and what makes them Kenyan?
01:42:17.000 Or are they all Africans?
01:42:19.000 Are they all black?
01:42:21.000 Like DNA test on someone and find out where their origins are.
01:42:25.000 You can find out how much Irish you have in you, how much South African.
01:42:29.000 You can do all that.
01:42:30.000 You can go all the way back to your family lineage through genes.
01:42:33.000 I get that.
01:42:34.000 Totally fine.
01:42:34.000 Well, if you want to go all the way back, we're all African.
01:42:36.000 Sure.
01:42:36.000 Well, there you go.
01:42:37.000 That's another way to disprove this whole thing, right?
01:42:39.000 Right.
01:42:39.000 But is it disproving it because, I mean, these branches- It's not disproving it.
01:42:43.000 Sorry, that's a bad word to use here.
01:42:45.000 It is calling it out as a fiction, as a social construct, which is that these lines have been drawn all the time in all kinds of different ways over the centuries.
01:42:57.000 I think?
01:43:22.000 Well, Jimi Hendrix has a mixed background, right?
01:43:26.000 I mean, wasn't his mother white and his father was black?
01:43:29.000 Joe, what's his race?
01:43:30.000 Is he black or white?
01:43:31.000 It's a good question.
01:43:31.000 There you go.
01:43:32.000 Got a lot in him.
01:43:33.000 But there's a big difference between someone like Jimi Hendrix and someone that is like very, very dark.
01:43:40.000 Okay.
01:43:41.000 Comes from a specific part of the world where everyone around them is very, very dark.
01:43:45.000 Let's do that.
01:43:46.000 They have very obvious and repeatable characteristics.
01:43:49.000 Let's do that.
01:43:49.000 So the Congo.
01:43:50.000 These knives come from the Congo.
01:43:51.000 Sure.
01:43:52.000 Okay, the people there?
01:43:53.000 They're pygmies, actually.
01:43:54.000 I mean, that's an even more specific group.
01:43:56.000 Just West Africa.
01:43:56.000 We can even do West Africans.
01:43:58.000 Okay.
01:43:59.000 Where the Western slaves, American slaves, come from.
01:44:04.000 And just across the continent, not even that far away, there's Somalia.
01:44:09.000 You know what Somalians look like?
01:44:11.000 Yeah.
01:44:12.000 And Ethiopians.
01:44:13.000 Think about them and how they look and think about how West Africans look.
01:44:19.000 Are they the same race?
01:44:21.000 Well, very different physical characteristics.
01:44:23.000 Very dark.
01:44:24.000 Somalis look different than everybody, clearly.
01:44:27.000 You know a Somali immediately.
01:44:30.000 Same continent, same pigmentation, basically.
01:44:33.000 Very thin.
01:44:34.000 Yeah.
01:44:35.000 Their facial structure, very different.
01:44:37.000 Why are they black?
01:44:39.000 Why are they the same race?
01:44:40.000 Is that the same race?
01:44:42.000 We're talking about Somalians.
01:44:45.000 Would you consider Somalians the same as Ethiopians or as the same as Egyptians, which is also Africa?
01:44:52.000 My thing is, let's get rid of these categories.
01:44:54.000 These are all silly, made-up categories.
01:44:58.000 They're all arbitrary.
01:45:00.000 Lines have been drawn between groups of people arbitrarily over the centuries.
01:45:07.000 So you're arguing against something that Sam Harris said.
01:45:10.000 So what did Sam Harris say specifically?
01:45:12.000 Well, it's not just him.
01:45:12.000 It's a lot of people.
01:45:13.000 So you don't agree that there is any race at all?
01:45:16.000 I'm just saying it's a fiction.
01:45:17.000 It's made up.
01:45:19.000 Well, is it a fiction or is it a way we're trying to define the variations between human groups?
01:45:26.000 Because there are variations.
01:45:27.000 Oh, that's definitely what it's been about.
01:45:30.000 That's definitely been the motivation.
01:45:32.000 And think about what the consequences have been.
01:45:35.000 It's never been good.
01:45:37.000 Just because there's consequences for variations or recognizing variations doesn't mean you should stop recognizing actual variations.
01:45:44.000 But they always make claims right after that.
01:45:46.000 They don't have to, though.
01:45:48.000 That's a straw man, isn't it?
01:45:49.000 You don't have to make a claim that Chinese people are different because they look different.
01:45:53.000 No, but then it's just...
01:45:54.000 But you can say, well, this is what a Chinese person...
01:45:56.000 Sure.
01:45:56.000 Generally, they have these very stringent characteristics.
01:45:59.000 They don't have blonde hair.
01:46:01.000 They don't have blue eyes.
01:46:02.000 They're not tall and skinny.
01:46:03.000 They look like Chinese people.
01:46:05.000 Sure, but then again, Chinese people all look the same.
01:46:08.000 I mean, there's...
01:46:09.000 You don't have to say that.
01:46:10.000 Right, but again...
01:46:11.000 But there's clear characteristics.
01:46:12.000 The difference between a Chinese person and a black person is very clear.
01:46:17.000 Not really.
01:46:18.000 Well, an ethnic Kenyan, someone who lives in Kenya, who was born and raised multiple generations deep, and their parents are Kenyan, their grandparents are Kenyan, there's a very big difference between them and someone who lives in Shanghai, who was born in Shanghai,
01:46:34.000 their parents are born in Shanghai, they go all the way back, you know, many, many generations of being pure Chinese.
01:46:39.000 Right, but there are infinite variations, even among people who have lived only in Shanghai.
01:46:43.000 But what do you want to call those variations?
01:46:45.000 Nothing.
01:46:46.000 But you're talking about something that's clearly identifiable.
01:46:49.000 Are you just going to ignore it?
01:46:51.000 I would say that, of course, there are genes that run in families, and I completely agree that genes determine, in large part, how we look fine.
01:47:01.000 So you can certainly say, this person is likely, because of their genes, connected to that person last generation, to that generation, to this family lineage.
01:47:10.000 Sure.
01:47:11.000 Well, what does that give you?
01:47:12.000 I don't know.
01:47:13.000 Nothing.
01:47:13.000 I mean, the thing is that people have taken that and they've said, oh, well, these particular characteristics, right?
01:47:20.000 Human beings, we were talking about complexity in human beings at the beginning of this, right?
01:47:24.000 People are infinitely complex.
01:47:25.000 Right.
01:47:26.000 Right?
01:47:26.000 Okay, so the thing is, what people have done historically is they've just picked certain characteristics among people and said, ah, that is what determines your race.
01:47:36.000 Is the issue the word race?
01:47:37.000 Is maybe the issue, like, there are obvious physical characteristics, the difference between, like, someone who is a Mongol versus someone who is Brazilian versus someone who is...
01:47:49.000 There's some pretty obvious physical characteristics for...
01:47:53.000 Geographic areas.
01:47:54.000 Would you agree?
01:47:55.000 Or common physical characteristics for some geographic areas?
01:47:59.000 Sure.
01:47:59.000 You could say, on average, people in China are shorter than people in Polynesia.
01:48:06.000 Well, here's a place where you could do it.
01:48:07.000 Canada.
01:48:08.000 Like, try to find a Canadian.
01:48:10.000 Like, you don't know what a Canadian looks like.
01:48:11.000 They could be English, they could be American, they could be anything.
01:48:15.000 I was trying to entertain your strongest argument.
01:48:17.000 Okay, so, like, China, right?
01:48:19.000 You could certainly say that people in China are, on average, on average, shorter than people in Polynesia.
01:48:24.000 Well, they look different on average.
01:48:27.000 That's one way in which they look different.
01:48:29.000 You're talking about physiognomy, facial features?
01:48:32.000 That, bone structure, Polynesians tend to be really stout people.
01:48:36.000 I suppose you could say the width of their eyes is narrower or whatever on average.
01:48:42.000 Whatever, sure.
01:48:43.000 Okay, so what?
01:48:45.000 That's it.
01:48:46.000 I mean, what did we...
01:48:47.000 Okay, so they are likely to be in lineage from that part of the world?
01:48:53.000 Fine.
01:48:53.000 That's cool.
01:48:54.000 I got no problem with that.
01:48:55.000 But what else do you want to say?
01:48:57.000 The thing is, Joe, no one stops there.
01:49:00.000 They always go on to that.
01:49:01.000 They always go on from there and they start to make all these other claims.
01:49:05.000 Oh, well, that race is really good at math.
01:49:13.000 They can do the coding for Google better than other people can.
01:49:20.000 Whatever, right?
01:49:20.000 They are more scrupulous.
01:49:24.000 Smoke cigarettes more.
01:49:25.000 Whatever it is.
01:49:25.000 You know, they used to be accused of being more easily addicted to opium.
01:49:29.000 You name it, right?
01:49:30.000 Things change.
01:49:31.000 But that's the problem, is that once you start there, people have used those differences for other reasons almost always, which are nefarious and injurious and have done terrible things to people.
01:49:45.000 Your problem is recognizing those characteristics and those differences and calling it a race, and then attaching all sorts of other claims to this category.
01:49:56.000 Precisely.
01:49:57.000 Okay.
01:49:57.000 Yeah, that's exactly what Sam and Charles Murray...
01:50:00.000 This is Charles Murray's thing, although it's actually...
01:50:02.000 It's only a small part of his work, and he gets accused of it being central, and it's not.
01:50:07.000 But anyway, he does still nonetheless believe this, and so does Sam Harris, and so does other people.
01:50:12.000 That there are differences in IQ among races.
01:50:17.000 Okay.
01:50:17.000 Now, on the surface level, they are completely correct.
01:50:21.000 There's no question.
01:50:22.000 Meaning that IQ scores among people that we identify as African American have been lower than among the people we define as white American.
01:50:38.000 Totally true.
01:50:39.000 Okay.
01:50:40.000 Totally true and they are right that that is suppressed that we are not allowed to even talk about that data Which is there and it's I have no problem with that.
01:50:47.000 I'm sure that's true Here's the thing though How do we define african-american and how do we define white first?
01:50:55.000 That's the first problem those as you know Definitions have changed over time.
01:51:00.000 So, Jews used to be in the African-American group, and Italians used to be in the African-American group.
01:51:05.000 Well, no, no, they were never called African-American stuff.
01:51:08.000 Yeah, they were.
01:51:08.000 They were called Negroes.
01:51:09.000 What?
01:51:10.000 Yes, they were.
01:51:10.000 Jews were called Negroes?
01:51:11.000 There was a book written, this is in my book, Renegade History.
01:51:14.000 In 1911, there was a book written by a scholar, and this was one of many, the title of which, his name was Arthur Abernethy, the title of which was, The Jew is a Negro.
01:51:25.000 That's the title of it.
01:51:26.000 That's hilarious.
01:51:27.000 This was common.
01:51:27.000 This is what year?
01:51:29.000 This is all through the late 19th and early 20th centuries, from about the 1880s when the Jews started coming over in big numbers, from the 1880s into the 1940s.
01:51:38.000 I'm saying this is what was taught in college classrooms, that Jews were of a different race, and there was some difference of opinion about whether they were black or whether they were just some other kind of inferior race, but they certainly weren't white.
01:51:54.000 That was widely agreed upon until World War II, basically.
01:51:59.000 All right.
01:52:00.000 So, how do we define African-American?
01:52:02.000 Is Jimi Hendrix African-American?
01:52:04.000 Well, you're talking, there's a big difference, isn't there, in the term African-American versus Negro, right?
01:52:10.000 No, it's the same thing.
01:52:12.000 It's just a different name for the same category.
01:52:13.000 Yeah, but it's from Africa.
01:52:15.000 They knew that these Jews weren't from Africa.
01:52:17.000 So, the one-drop rule?
01:52:19.000 It's just a continent.
01:52:20.000 Oh, no, no.
01:52:20.000 They believe that the genes, and they're right about this, right?
01:52:24.000 The genes came from Africa.
01:52:26.000 Yeah.
01:52:27.000 So that's, you know, and they're right, but so do all of our genes, right?
01:52:30.000 Right, all of them.
01:52:31.000 So that was part of their claim, and that they were from, you know, part of Europe that was a bit closer to Africa.
01:52:36.000 And this is what they said about Italians, in particular Sicilians, right?
01:52:40.000 They were like, hey, look where it is.
01:52:41.000 That's why these people, you know, are fucking all the time and having babies and are lazy and can't work and fight in bars and get drunk and...
01:52:48.000 Right?
01:52:49.000 Right.
01:52:49.000 So, how do we define these terms?
01:52:52.000 What does white mean?
01:52:53.000 That's totally changed.
01:52:54.000 But how much of it is, right, the real question is how much of it is cultural?
01:52:56.000 So there's that.
01:52:57.000 Hold on.
01:52:58.000 And then, and then, IQ. Well, I think it does measure something.
01:53:04.000 I think it's real.
01:53:04.000 I do.
01:53:05.000 I really do.
01:53:05.000 I think there is something called, this is a G factor, which it tests, it measures.
01:53:10.000 G factor is this thing that was invented, this concept.
01:53:13.000 It's a category, but it's a real category in the world we operate in, which is your ability to do rational thinking, reasoning, like math.
01:53:22.000 Like writing scholarly essays, you know?
01:53:25.000 I'm sure my G-factor is higher, sort of, than other people's, although I'm terrible at math, so that's yet another problematic wrinkle for these people.
01:53:36.000 But yeah, I believe that IQ measures that stuff, that kind of thing.
01:53:42.000 But is that what intelligence is and only is?
01:53:47.000 Clearly no.
01:53:48.000 No.
01:53:48.000 There's a lot of variables that IQ doesn't test for.
01:53:50.000 What do you think IQ tests tests, right?
01:53:52.000 They test all kinds of intelligence?
01:53:54.000 Do they test emotional intelligence?
01:53:55.000 Do they test the intelligence of Jimi Hendrix?
01:53:58.000 Do you think he was great at calculus?
01:54:00.000 I don't know.
01:54:00.000 I sort of doubt it.
01:54:01.000 Was he smart?
01:54:02.000 No.
01:54:03.000 Was he intelligent?
01:54:04.000 Clearly.
01:54:04.000 In different ways.
01:54:06.000 He was clever with a guitar, that's for sure.
01:54:07.000 So then how do you define intelligence?
01:54:09.000 Right.
01:54:09.000 Well, creativity is unquestionably some sort of measurement or expression of intelligence.
01:54:15.000 We separate that off, though, and we always have as a society.
01:54:18.000 We shouldn't.
01:54:18.000 That's why you don't do well unless you're really, really, really good.
01:54:22.000 If you're just creative in the way we define that and not intelligent in the way IQ tests define it.
01:54:31.000 So it's all problematic.
01:54:34.000 And all it does is ask questions.
01:54:36.000 It just keeps raising new questions.
01:54:38.000 It never has answers.
01:54:39.000 And so the attempt to...
01:54:40.000 There's this thing that goes on where certain people just need to keep finding racial differences that are innate, biological, fixed, that can't be changed.
01:54:50.000 And it's like, first of all, you've never done this because it's so fluid and you're never really answering it.
01:54:55.000 And then What if you did finally prove it?
01:54:58.000 What are we going to do with that information?
01:55:01.000 Well, we just recognize that there are variables, like when we're talking about Polynesian people.
01:55:06.000 We're talking about people from Tonga, very stout, strong people.
01:55:10.000 Samoans tend to be very stout, strong people.
01:55:13.000 I mean, that's a characteristic, actually a positive characteristic, that's attributed to people from that area.
01:55:19.000 Do you ignore that?
01:55:20.000 Like, how do you address that?
01:55:22.000 No, of course not.
01:55:22.000 I would say that people from Polynesia are more likely, men from Polynesia are more likely to be offensive linemen in the NFL. So your issue is calling it a race itself.
01:55:32.000 Yeah.
01:55:33.000 And then attributing other things to it.
01:55:34.000 All I'm saying is guys from there tend to be bigger.
01:55:38.000 Hell yeah.
01:55:38.000 No doubt about it.
01:55:39.000 But so what?
01:55:40.000 That's the end of it.
01:55:40.000 Is there a part of the world where people are generally thought to be dumb?
01:55:45.000 Yeah, Africa.
01:55:46.000 The continent we've been talking about.
01:55:49.000 That's the history of this country.
01:55:51.000 That's the history of Europe.
01:55:53.000 That's the history of the modern world is the belief that people from Africa are dumber than whites.
01:55:58.000 Well, isn't the problem with that, that Africa is also where the pyramids were created?
01:56:01.000 That's what justified slavery.
01:56:04.000 That's what justified colonialism.
01:56:05.000 That's what has justified all sorts of things, right?
01:56:08.000 So that's the problem here, is that these attempts to define people by race and, by the way, by gender, have done nothing but terrible things.
01:56:17.000 Nothing but terrible things.
01:56:19.000 And you can't do it anyway.
01:56:21.000 It's scientific bullshit.
01:56:22.000 It's total superstition.
01:56:23.000 It's utterly arbitrary.
01:56:25.000 The lines are always being redrawn by the people who do this stuff.
01:56:28.000 So why are you still doing it, guys?
01:56:30.000 Where do you draw the goddamn line?
01:56:32.000 All the people in Africa are black?
01:56:34.000 Really?
01:56:35.000 Egyptians are the same race as people from the Congo?
01:56:39.000 As the people from South Africa?
01:56:41.000 As the people from Somalia?
01:56:43.000 I mean, how are they the same race?
01:56:45.000 Because it's pigment?
01:56:46.000 Skin pigment?
01:56:47.000 Is that the only determination?
01:56:48.000 Well, it's a fascinating thing when you call people African Americans or call them Italian Americans, because Italy isn't actually a country, whereas Africa's a continent.
01:56:58.000 Fantastic point.
01:56:59.000 It's weird to call people continent Americans.
01:57:01.000 Who's an Italian, right?
01:57:03.000 Yeah.
01:57:03.000 Because guess what?
01:57:04.000 Italy didn't even exist until the 19th century.
01:57:06.000 I mean, it was just a bunch of city-states until then.
01:57:10.000 And there was no such thing as an Italian.
01:57:11.000 People who lived there didn't call themselves Italian.
01:57:13.000 It wasn't a concept.
01:57:14.000 It wasn't a name.
01:57:15.000 It was nothing.
01:57:16.000 And then they made it into this nation-state that they called Italy.
01:57:20.000 And ever since then...
01:57:22.000 Every sorry, but every dipshit Italian-American is like really proud that I'm Italian.
01:57:26.000 Well that dude that has no meaning really in the deepest history.
01:57:29.000 It has some meaning, sure, but they talk about it as if it's like rooted in nature, like it's biological.
01:57:35.000 People love it.
01:57:35.000 They love being a part of that stupid team.
01:57:37.000 Yeah.
01:57:38.000 Sopranos.
01:57:38.000 I blame the Sopranos.
01:57:40.000 It's tribalism.
01:57:40.000 Yeah.
01:57:41.000 It's tribalism.
01:57:42.000 It is tribalism.
01:57:42.000 And it's stupid and if it were just stupid I wouldn't care.
01:57:46.000 It's that, as I said, it just leads to bad stuff, and it has historically.
01:57:51.000 Let's get over it.
01:57:51.000 So is this a popular opinion, the idea that there are no races?
01:57:54.000 Oh, okay.
01:57:56.000 So, you know, I'm Mr. Anti-Academic Academic, but this is where academics have actually done their best work, I think.
01:58:02.000 And this is my second disagreement with Jordan Peterson.
01:58:06.000 He thinks that all the stuff in college campuses that's crazy is because of postmodernism, and he doesn't understand postmodernism.
01:58:16.000 What's going on in college campuses is people making all sorts of truth claims about things like race and gender, right?
01:58:22.000 I'm black, therefore I will always be this, that, and the other thing.
01:58:26.000 You're white, therefore you are this, that, and the other thing no matter what, right?
01:58:30.000 That is actually old, modernist, scientific racist thinking.
01:58:37.000 That's what these old racist, geneticists, eugenicists thought back in the day.
01:58:41.000 It's amazing.
01:58:42.000 Again, SJWs are actually really, really conservative and ultimately racist.
01:58:47.000 The social justice warriors, folks.
01:58:49.000 I thought your listeners must know that.
01:58:51.000 Some people don't know the abbreviations.
01:58:52.000 I just assumed that was a shorthand to use.
01:58:54.000 So postmodernism.
01:58:57.000 This is where Jordan Peterson makes me want to throw chairs when he talks about this.
01:59:01.000 It comes out of French philosophy in the 1960s and 70s and 80s.
01:59:07.000 Michel Foucault is the most famous example of a French postmodernist.
01:59:12.000 And they get dumped on all the time.
01:59:14.000 But the central argument that was made by Foucault and postmodernists was that none of these things are...
01:59:26.000 Biologically determined.
01:59:28.000 That there is no natural essence to anything.
01:59:31.000 That everything is a social construct.
01:59:34.000 Which means that we now are free to choose our own destiny as individuals, right?
01:59:43.000 Prior to that, prior to the 1960s and 70s, it was the dominant belief That if you were born a woman, you were going to be a wife and a mother.
01:59:55.000 And if you weren't, you were doing something unnatural.
01:59:57.000 That if you were black, you could never be the head of a business or the president.
02:00:03.000 You could never do math, whatever.
02:00:06.000 If you were white, you should do all those things.
02:00:10.000 Everybody's destiny was determined at birth.
02:00:14.000 And everyone believed that.
02:00:15.000 Most people believed that.
02:00:16.000 Okay.
02:00:17.000 So postmodernists came along and said, guess what?
02:00:19.000 You know what we found looking at history?
02:00:21.000 We found just what I said.
02:00:22.000 I just gave you the whole postmodern argument right there.
02:00:25.000 We looked at history and we saw, first of all, that all these categories have changed over time, which tells us that they're just inventions.
02:00:31.000 They're just inventions that get reinvented all the time.
02:00:34.000 Okay?
02:00:36.000 And second of all, they have served the purposes of ruling elites, because they get to put people in their boxes and control them more easily, right?
02:00:45.000 Oh, those people over there, those are black, therefore they should be our slaves.
02:00:50.000 So it's okay for us to have them as slaves.
02:00:52.000 Those women over there, we don't want them, you know, working for NASA, so we will have a rule against women working for NASA, whatever it is, right?
02:01:00.000 So postmodernists said, None of this is biological.
02:01:04.000 None of this is inevitable.
02:01:06.000 You are now free to do what you want as an individual.
02:01:09.000 It was a liberating moment.
02:01:11.000 It has become the dominant way of thinking in academia.
02:01:14.000 And I have to say, in my view, it is the supreme achievement of academics.
02:01:20.000 Ever.
02:01:22.000 That's it?
02:01:23.000 That's it.
02:01:24.000 But it's huge.
02:01:25.000 Huge.
02:01:26.000 So if you think about it, look how the world has changed, and particularly in the United States since then, right?
02:01:32.000 We no longer generally have those ideas.
02:01:35.000 At least we don't operate as such.
02:01:36.000 So black people are allowed, mostly, into places they weren't before.
02:01:41.000 Women are allowed, very much so, into places they weren't allowed before.
02:01:46.000 The whole world has changed, and I think principally from that idea, So that doesn't mean...
02:01:54.000 Now, the problem is that these social justice warriors, so-called, on campuses have used some of that language We're good to go.
02:02:31.000 What much of the trans movement now is doing, which makes me so sad, is that they're saying that I am biologically, essentially, naturally, in my core, a woman.
02:02:44.000 No.
02:02:45.000 No one is.
02:02:46.000 No one is.
02:02:47.000 You can't...
02:02:48.000 The whole point of this movement used to be that you get to choose your gender or choose not to be a gender.
02:02:54.000 You get to move around.
02:02:55.000 Your destiny is not determined for you.
02:02:58.000 What a lot of the trans movement now is doing, there's a good word, reifying.
02:03:02.000 They're making these ideas, these abstractions real again.
02:03:05.000 They're making these claims...
02:03:07.000 That are similar to Sam Harris's claims and to old racist claims and to old sexist claims that if you're born a particular way biologically, this is who you are.
02:03:18.000 Right?
02:03:18.000 Because you've heard a lot of trans people say this, right?
02:03:20.000 I was born a woman.
02:03:23.000 That's what they often say.
02:03:25.000 What I'm saying is no one was born anything.
02:03:30.000 You're losing me in a huge way.
02:03:32.000 Why?
02:03:32.000 You don't think that women, that some women are born women and some, you don't think you're born a man?
02:03:37.000 No.
02:03:38.000 What are you born?
02:03:40.000 Why are you a man?
02:03:41.000 For all sorts of reasons.
02:03:42.000 For all sorts of reasons.
02:03:43.000 None of them being biological.
02:03:44.000 We just decided.
02:03:45.000 None of them being the XY chromosome.
02:03:47.000 None of them being you have testicles.
02:03:49.000 None of them being you have a penis.
02:03:50.000 None of them being the fact that you generally gravitate towards male activities like boxing, kickboxing, aggressive things.
02:03:57.000 We just went through this whole thing.
02:03:58.000 No, you didn't.
02:03:58.000 Yoel Romero and Andy Dick.
02:04:00.000 Yeah, but you.
02:04:00.000 Why are they both men?
02:04:01.000 But you.
02:04:02.000 You.
02:04:02.000 You're a man.
02:04:03.000 Yeah.
02:04:03.000 Right?
02:04:04.000 We're not talking about the broad spectrum of masculine behavior.
02:04:07.000 We're talking about no one is born a man.
02:04:09.000 You're not born a man.
02:04:10.000 I'm not born a man.
02:04:11.000 I'm saying that, no.
02:04:12.000 I think we're getting silly.
02:04:13.000 Hold on here.
02:04:13.000 I think it's the category of man becomes meaningless.
02:04:17.000 Does it?
02:04:18.000 Yeah, we just did this, man.
02:04:19.000 No, we didn't.
02:04:20.000 We definitely didn't do this.
02:04:20.000 Yoel Romero and Andy Dick are both- It's a broad category.
02:04:24.000 Lines get blurry at the ends of the spectrum, and I think they cross over.
02:04:28.000 The male-female lines do cross over when you get to that Kenyan runner in Andy Dick.
02:04:33.000 Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.
02:04:35.000 It's so broad that it becomes, to me, pretty damn meaningless.
02:04:38.000 Well, the numbers.
02:04:40.000 Are incredibly small at those crossover marks.
02:04:42.000 You're talking about a very, very small percentage of the population.
02:04:45.000 Neither Andy Dick nor Yoel Romero are trans people, right?
02:04:49.000 Andy might be.
02:04:50.000 They are so different, though, physically in every way.
02:04:54.000 Okay, yeah.
02:04:54.000 But we both put them in this silly category called, man, what the hell does that mean anymore?
02:04:58.000 Andy has children.
02:04:58.000 He made them.
02:04:59.000 What does that mean anymore?
02:05:00.000 He impregnated different women and got babies from them.
02:05:03.000 And there's a lot of people called men who don't and can't.
02:05:05.000 Can't.
02:05:05.000 Okay, yeah, but that's rare.
02:05:07.000 They were born that way, by the way.
02:05:09.000 But that's pretty rare.
02:05:10.000 Not that rare.
02:05:11.000 Oh, it's very rare.
02:05:12.000 It happens.
02:05:13.000 Most men, when they have sex with a woman and they put sperm in their body, they can make a baby.
02:05:18.000 So that's one characteristic.
02:05:19.000 But hold on a second.
02:05:20.000 You're making it as if it's a really common thing.
02:05:24.000 When you're talking about a small fraction of the men can't make babies.
02:05:29.000 An incredibly small fraction.
02:05:31.000 Exactly.
02:05:31.000 The vast majority of males with the XY chromosome who have penises are capable of impregnating a female with an XX chromosome.
02:05:41.000 The male was born a male, the female was born a female.
02:05:46.000 So what do you mean that you aren't born a man or you aren't born a female?
02:05:50.000 So there are many, many characteristics that we assign to the category of man.
02:05:55.000 Many of them.
02:05:56.000 That's one characteristic.
02:05:59.000 Okay?
02:05:59.000 So why?
02:06:00.000 Why is that characteristic in the man category?
02:06:03.000 If, in particular, that there are some men who don't share that characteristic.
02:06:07.000 But which ones don't?
02:06:08.000 That's the aberration.
02:06:10.000 The aberration is the ones that don't.
02:06:12.000 Why is it an aberration?
02:06:13.000 Because they can't get a woman pregnant.
02:06:15.000 They don't produce sperm.
02:06:16.000 You're talking about very, very rare cases.
02:06:19.000 Yeah, same for race.
02:06:21.000 Same thing happens with sickle cell anemia, right?
02:06:23.000 This is what everybody invokes when they want to claim that race is real.
02:06:26.000 Only black people get sickle cell anemia.
02:06:28.000 Well, guess what?
02:06:29.000 The numbers there are about the same as the number of men who are infertile.
02:06:33.000 Why, then, are people with sickle cell anemia definitely black?
02:06:37.000 Why is that definitely a black thing?
02:06:39.000 Same thing.
02:06:40.000 It's, you know, again, why are we...
02:06:42.000 There's all these characteristics.
02:06:44.000 Why do we draw this line called man around...
02:06:48.000 All those different people.
02:06:49.000 Well, why do we do it with animals?
02:06:51.000 When you have a male dog and a female dog, isn't there a male dog and a female dog?
02:06:55.000 You don't believe there's a male dog and a female dog?
02:06:56.000 I'm just saying it's inventions.
02:06:57.000 Now, hold on.
02:06:58.000 But it's not an invention.
02:07:00.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:07:00.000 No, it is.
02:07:01.000 Of course.
02:07:01.000 But it's not an invention.
02:07:02.000 One of them has a penis and testicles.
02:07:04.000 It's a male.
02:07:04.000 The thing we see, we call it a penis.
02:07:07.000 Sure, I get it.
02:07:07.000 No, I get it.
02:07:08.000 And that's the world I live in.
02:07:09.000 Absolutely.
02:07:10.000 So I operate in this way, by the way.
02:07:12.000 A dog penis?
02:07:13.000 You and I would agree on all the things in the world that are dogs.
02:07:17.000 I'm not going to walk around and be like, oh no, that's not a dog.
02:07:20.000 So with humans, you're making a distinction that there are certain feelings and the way you interface with the world that may be more or less masculine or feminine.
02:07:29.000 But it does apply to dogs, my point here, which is that we did draw a line, right?
02:07:34.000 Do all dogs look alike?
02:07:36.000 My God, there's a huge variation there, too.
02:07:37.000 We're not talking about race, though.
02:07:38.000 We're talking about gender, right?
02:07:39.000 Either way, it doesn't matter.
02:07:40.000 It's the same principle.
02:07:41.000 Okay, let's just say Dobermans.
02:07:43.000 Male Dobermans and female Dobermans, right?
02:07:45.000 You go to buy a male Doberman and the guy gives you a female Doberman and he goes, oh, but she identifies with being a male.
02:07:51.000 It's just an invention, man.
02:07:53.000 This is a male.
02:07:54.000 She's a male.
02:07:54.000 You can't disrespect her by saying she's not a male.
02:07:57.000 You would say that guy's crazy and you'd want your money back.
02:07:59.000 Are there any two females who are identical?
02:08:01.000 Two female what?
02:08:02.000 Anything.
02:08:04.000 I mean, if you have a really good breeder, you can get pretty goddamn close if you're talking about dogs.
02:08:09.000 No.
02:08:10.000 There are no two organisms that are identical.
02:08:14.000 Certainly not.
02:08:14.000 They're not identical down to the hair.
02:08:17.000 You've got no technicality, but you can still categorize them as XY or XX chromosomes.
02:08:22.000 Sure.
02:08:22.000 And I'm not saying we shouldn't categorize anything ever because we must do that to live in this world.
02:08:28.000 What are you saying?
02:08:29.000 What I am saying is we should probably stop Applying certain categories to human beings in the ways we have done.
02:08:37.000 Like how so?
02:08:38.000 How so with male and female?
02:08:40.000 Because there are certain inventions, certain social constructs that do nothing but bad things, that do no good, and they're only social constructs, like race and gender.
02:08:49.000 Well, tell me how race and gender...
02:08:51.000 I'm not worried about Dobermans too much.
02:08:53.000 Especially gender definition.
02:08:54.000 Let's look at gender definition and tell me how it's only bad.
02:08:58.000 Why is it only bad to define men as men and women as women?
02:09:01.000 Because, well, if you say it's about making the biological claim, the biological connection there.
02:09:07.000 Well, making a definition, like saying a guy who is born a guy who gravitates towards male activities, likes females, all those things, by saying that that's a man, that this is a born man, and you're saying, no, no one is.
02:09:21.000 So if you're saying if those characteristics are naturally determined, Then all of us guys who don't do those things are unnatural.
02:09:29.000 Which things are those?
02:09:30.000 Be attracted to women?
02:09:31.000 Whatever it is that you characterize as being male, right?
02:09:34.000 But that's so common with males.
02:09:37.000 What is?
02:09:37.000 Being attracted to women, engaging in sex with women.
02:09:41.000 Oh, really?
02:09:41.000 Yes.
02:09:42.000 Have you heard of gay people?
02:09:43.000 Yes.
02:09:43.000 It's a small percentage of the population of men.
02:09:47.000 What do you mean?
02:09:48.000 Is it 1%?
02:09:49.000 Is it 10%?
02:09:50.000 I mean, it's certainly a lot of people, isn't it?
02:09:53.000 Well, it's a lot of people when you think about the 350 million people we have living in America.
02:09:58.000 Sure.
02:09:59.000 Take all the men.
02:09:59.000 Let's do this.
02:10:00.000 Take all the men who are straight-up homosexual, always have been.
02:10:03.000 But you can classify them as gay men.
02:10:06.000 I know.
02:10:06.000 Hold on.
02:10:06.000 So just take that, whatever that is.
02:10:08.000 Okay.
02:10:08.000 If it's 1 or 2 or 5 or 10 percent, whatever it is.
02:10:10.000 Only been homosexual 100 percent, never been attracted to a woman, period.
02:10:13.000 Okay.
02:10:14.000 Okay, fine.
02:10:14.000 That's still a really significant number.
02:10:16.000 I'm not done.
02:10:17.000 Hang on.
02:10:18.000 Then take the men who don't identify as homosexual, have had sex with women, have been attracted to women, but have fucked men.
02:10:26.000 Prisoners.
02:10:27.000 Pretty damn big number there.
02:10:28.000 Wait a minute.
02:10:29.000 How many guys do you think that are attracted to women but still fuck men?
02:10:33.000 So Kinsey, the Kinsey study, in the 1940s and 50s, found that it was, I think, 30%.
02:10:39.000 What?
02:10:40.000 Yes.
02:10:41.000 30% of men fuck men?
02:10:43.000 Reached orgasm in a sexual experience with another man, yes.
02:10:47.000 30%?
02:10:48.000 Yes.
02:10:49.000 Yes.
02:10:49.000 It was a very large number.
02:10:50.000 Kinsey was hanging out with freaks.
02:10:52.000 Yep.
02:10:52.000 That's what I think.
02:10:53.000 There were different numbers for women and men, but they were both very significant percentages.
02:10:58.000 Not majorities, but very significant percentages.
02:11:00.000 Well, I don't know how to say that.
02:11:02.000 I have personally known many men who you would consider straight, who identify as straight, who have done something with men.
02:11:09.000 Either given him a blowjob, gotten a blowjob, had full-on sex, jerked each other off.
02:11:14.000 Jesus, you're hanging out with weird crowds.
02:11:16.000 I'm surprised this is news to you.
02:11:18.000 Well, it's news in that even if they did do that, you're talking about individual sexual acts between people who are male or female, right?
02:11:25.000 You're still talking about a man.
02:11:27.000 So talk about a man that's having sex with other men.
02:11:30.000 You're defining it such in that way.
02:11:31.000 You're literally saying a guy.
02:11:34.000 No, you are.
02:11:34.000 No, you are saying you know guys who've sucked other guys dicks.
02:11:38.000 A guy who's done it to a guy.
02:11:40.000 You're saying a man do it to a man.
02:11:42.000 Gotcha.
02:11:42.000 I gotcha.
02:11:43.000 I gotcha.
02:11:43.000 No, I'm saying that people who are identified as men.
02:11:46.000 You didn't say that though, did you?
02:11:48.000 That's what I meant.
02:11:48.000 People who are identified as men by society have done these things that society considers to be unnatural for men.
02:11:56.000 But when they were doing that, weren't they a man doing it to a man?
02:11:59.000 And look what happened to those guys, historically.
02:12:02.000 Not so much recently, but still today, but certainly historically.
02:12:05.000 Listen, we can't keep going back to a hundred plus years from now.
02:12:07.000 I'm talking about...
02:12:07.000 Let's talk about, like, right now.
02:12:09.000 I am.
02:12:09.000 You're still talking about a man who's having a sexual exchange with another man.
02:12:13.000 Like, you can be sexually attracted to another man.
02:12:15.000 It doesn't mean that you're both not men.
02:12:17.000 So do you think homosexual men are men?
02:12:19.000 Sure!
02:12:19.000 Why?
02:12:20.000 Because they're male.
02:12:21.000 They have a penis.
02:12:21.000 They have XY chromosomes.
02:12:23.000 They can get a woman pregnant if they wanted to.
02:12:25.000 They can donate their sperm to their lesbian pals and they can all have babies together.
02:12:28.000 So then you just eliminated one of the characteristics that you previously said was male.
02:12:33.000 No, no, no, no.
02:12:34.000 Most men, most are attracted to women, but a good percentage of them are gay.
02:12:41.000 This is not like complicated stuff.
02:12:43.000 They're still men.
02:12:47.000 Yeah.
02:12:48.000 I mean, I don't know where to go from here.
02:12:50.000 I mean, I think I've made the argument.
02:12:53.000 It's funny, because I thought you were totally with me for like an hour and a half, and now it's like, I feel like you're not there.
02:13:01.000 I don't know what to say.
02:13:02.000 You're definitely not there with that.
02:13:03.000 I think there's a giant spectrum of people, but to say that a guy isn't born a man, or a woman isn't born a woman, I think is disingenuous.
02:13:11.000 Uh-huh.
02:13:12.000 Yeah.
02:13:12.000 So it's where the...
02:13:14.000 So, okay.
02:13:16.000 Thailand.
02:13:17.000 Thailand, I think in India, and I think there's several Polynesian countries, there's several countries where there is a legal and cultural and social category that is neither man nor woman, nor male nor female.
02:13:32.000 Like in Thailand, the ladyboys, right?
02:13:34.000 And there's other countries too have this.
02:13:35.000 You can look it up.
02:13:36.000 It's easy to find.
02:13:36.000 Sure.
02:13:36.000 Right?
02:13:37.000 Okay?
02:13:37.000 You know about this, maybe.
02:13:38.000 Sure.
02:13:38.000 Okay.
02:13:39.000 What about that?
02:13:41.000 What about those people?
02:13:42.000 There's that too!
02:13:43.000 I think there's that too!
02:13:46.000 I'm saying people can be born a man, people can be born a woman, or you can get these Andy Dick, Yoel Romero weird variations.
02:13:55.000 But Joe, take the ladyboys from Thailand and move them here to this country now.
02:14:01.000 How will they be considered?
02:14:04.000 What do you mean, how will they be considered?
02:14:06.000 Americans don't have those categories.
02:14:08.000 Okay.
02:14:08.000 We have only two.
02:14:09.000 Don't you think there's a lot of variables in Thailand also that you're dealing with, like, really young sex workers?
02:14:16.000 There's a lot of weird shit that goes on in Thailand, a lot of abuse.
02:14:19.000 So is the ladyboy category real or not?
02:14:22.000 It's certainly real, as the trans category is real.
02:14:24.000 So there, they consider that real, and here we do not.
02:14:26.000 But if a trans category is real, and I think you agree it's real, and I agree it's real, right?
02:14:32.000 Trans people, I mean, there's absolutely people that feel like they're born in the wrong gender, right?
02:14:36.000 So why isn't a man real?
02:14:38.000 Why isn't a woman real?
02:14:39.000 They're real too.
02:14:40.000 If you want to say they're all equally real, I'm down.
02:14:43.000 I'm there, we're good.
02:14:44.000 That's what I'm saying.
02:14:45.000 Right.
02:14:45.000 It's just that those categories have no absolute, you know, biological meaning.
02:14:51.000 There's not meaning that they're fluid.
02:14:53.000 They're, you know, basically arbitrary.
02:14:54.000 Sorry.
02:14:55.000 I mean, that we invent them.
02:14:56.000 I'm not saying it's useless.
02:14:57.000 I'm not saying we should never have any categories.
02:15:00.000 I'm just saying that those categories have changed and they change everything.
02:15:03.000 Depending on where you are in the world.
02:15:05.000 That's why I'm disagreeing with you.
02:15:05.000 You kind of did say that a man isn't born a man and that a woman isn't born a woman.
02:15:09.000 And for sure, a lot of them are.
02:15:11.000 For sure, a lot of people that have your stereotypical classic female characteristics were born female.
02:15:19.000 And for sure, there's a lot of men who have classic stereotypical male behavior and patterns and desires.
02:15:27.000 They're born men.
02:15:28.000 And then there's trans people.
02:15:29.000 And then there's asexual people that also need to be considered.
02:15:33.000 There's people that just don't have any desire to fuck anybody.
02:15:35.000 They don't want to.
02:15:37.000 They don't want to be a man or a woman.
02:15:38.000 They can call themselves queer.
02:15:40.000 They can call themselves whatever they want.
02:15:41.000 They don't want to be a female.
02:15:43.000 They don't want to be a male.
02:15:44.000 They just want to be human.
02:15:46.000 Here's the deal.
02:15:46.000 Let's make a deal.
02:15:48.000 If that's what you have to say about it, and you want to not get in the way of people doing those things and making those decisions for themselves and let them do what they want to do, I am totally with you.
02:15:58.000 And that's true.
02:15:58.000 Well, for sure, I don't want to get in the way of anybody making...
02:16:00.000 I don't want to get in the way of furries.
02:16:02.000 That's awesome.
02:16:03.000 If you really identify with being a giant squirrel...
02:16:05.000 That's awesome.
02:16:06.000 That's great.
02:16:06.000 And that's really what matters.
02:16:09.000 I'm just saying that claims...
02:16:12.000 And I want to end it here...
02:16:14.000 I think?
02:16:31.000 Right?
02:16:33.000 Yeah, for sure with some people.
02:16:35.000 The variables are so extreme and the spectrum is so broad.
02:16:39.000 So after I was on your show the first time, got a whole bunch of comments from people calling me a fag and a pussy and a sissy and a this and that.
02:16:48.000 You can't read those.
02:16:48.000 Why are you reading those?
02:16:49.000 Feminizing me and it's not your fault for calling me a girl.
02:16:51.000 But you can't read those.
02:16:52.000 Oh, no, I know.
02:16:52.000 It's whatever.
02:16:53.000 No, I mean, people came to Twitter and whatever.
02:16:55.000 Yeah, you don't read those.
02:16:56.000 Oh, no, I know.
02:16:56.000 I stopped.
02:16:57.000 I learned.
02:16:57.000 Oh, yeah, I stopped.
02:16:58.000 I don't do it anymore.
02:16:58.000 It didn't matter.
02:16:59.000 I didn't care.
02:17:00.000 This didn't bother me at all.
02:17:01.000 I just thought it was interesting, actually.
02:17:02.000 So, in other words, and a lot of what they were really saying, and some of them elaborated on this, was that I was, you know, not really man enough.
02:17:11.000 I was less of a man for whatever reason.
02:17:13.000 I don't know.
02:17:14.000 I don't care.
02:17:14.000 It's fine.
02:17:15.000 I liked it.
02:17:15.000 It was funny.
02:17:16.000 But it really proves my point is that, you know, these things are very fluid.
02:17:20.000 So they kind of were kicking me out of the category of man.
02:17:22.000 And I was like, cool.
02:17:24.000 I think they were just insulting you to try to get awry from him.
02:17:27.000 I don't think you can make a rational argument dealing with internet trolls.
02:17:31.000 No, of course not.
02:17:32.000 I'm saying it's just one example of what goes on, generally, which is that we do this all the time, right?
02:17:36.000 Yeah, but they're not even human.
02:17:37.000 Like, when someone's interacting with you like that, it's lacking all of the characteristics of human interaction.
02:17:42.000 You're not there with a person, you're not looking at them.
02:17:44.000 If someone was in front of you like that, oh, you're a fag, you'd be like, oh my god, I'm in danger.
02:17:49.000 This is a crazy person.
02:17:50.000 I might have to defend myself against this person, because if someone is treating me that way, insulting me, looking me in the eye, we are so close to violence.
02:17:58.000 Anything can happen here.
02:17:59.000 This is a person that's not rational.
02:18:01.000 It is amazing, isn't it?
02:18:02.000 It's crazy!
02:18:02.000 I was just talking to my son as we were driving over here, because he read all the comments when I was on your shows.
02:18:09.000 And he was like, it was so funny.
02:18:10.000 I was like, Toby, don't read that shit, man.
02:18:12.000 He just thinks it's funny.
02:18:16.000 But it is remarkable how many people do that, right?
02:18:19.000 And it's not just that they have these thoughts about you, it's that they go out of their way to write it in public to do something to you.
02:18:25.000 They want to hurt your feelings.
02:18:25.000 Yes, that they'll go out of their way.
02:18:26.000 They want to make you react.
02:18:27.000 They'll actually sit down.
02:18:27.000 That's what boggles my mind, is that someone will actually take the time and energy to sit there and write.
02:18:32.000 This thing on YouTube or whatever, you know, about, you know, this or that about me.
02:18:37.000 It's phenomenal.
02:18:38.000 Well, sometimes people have good points.
02:18:40.000 I mean, sometimes they're not, even when they're insulting you, sometimes they're making points while they're insulting you.
02:18:46.000 It's just hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.
02:18:49.000 Yeah.
02:18:49.000 It's a weird way of interacting with people that didn't exist.
02:18:54.000 I mean, there was never a time in our past where you could, with real time, instantaneously, send something to someone and then they read it right away and they could be rude and all they are is a Twitter egg with a bunch of numbers and letters and they call you a homo.
02:19:08.000 It's the real downside of the internet, which otherwise is a miraculous boon to humanity.
02:19:13.000 I feel like it's an adolescent stage.
02:19:15.000 I feel like we are finding our way through this...
02:19:19.000 Inescapable new technology, this connection that we're sharing, which is just...
02:19:24.000 Well, it's one of the reasons why I think it's important to have one-on-one conversations with people.
02:19:29.000 And one of the things that I've noticed from doing this podcast is how many interesting people there are out there in the world, like yourself, that I could talk to, but also how bad most people are in the world with just talking to each other.
02:19:45.000 We don't ever have long conversations.
02:19:48.000 Everybody's checking their fucking phone.
02:19:49.000 Everybody's watching a television.
02:19:51.000 I worry about that because I'm very pro-technology and all this stuff, but that does worry me.
02:19:56.000 When I go into a restaurant and I see people sitting at the same table all looking at their phones.
02:19:59.000 Oh yeah, like seven people.
02:20:00.000 It's depressing.
02:20:01.000 You'll see like a group of seven all along their phone.
02:20:03.000 And I have wondered about the quality of conversation generally.
02:20:06.000 It erodes.
02:20:06.000 Just what you're saying.
02:20:07.000 I've been wondering and I'm thinking it might actually be...
02:20:12.000 I definitely think it is.
02:20:15.000 I find myself continually disappointed with very smart people that I meet that don't have real conversation.
02:20:23.000 They talk over people.
02:20:25.000 They're not listening.
02:20:26.000 They're not responding to what you're saying.
02:20:29.000 They're waiting for you to stop talking so they can talk.
02:20:31.000 And it's like this self-centered sort of way of interacting with each other that seems more prevalent than not.
02:20:39.000 Yeah.
02:20:39.000 I'm used to that because I'm around academics a lot.
02:20:42.000 Because they're used to lecturing and they're the smartest person in the room.
02:20:45.000 And so all their job is to do is to tell us what's true, right?
02:20:48.000 So they're very comfortable with that.
02:20:49.000 I was always amazed when I'd watch these really important, famous professors at Columbia, you know, give these lectures to a hall of 500 people.
02:20:56.000 And it seemed to me they didn't even know that...
02:20:59.000 There were other people in the room, the way they were talking.
02:21:01.000 Like, it didn't matter what the reactions were, whether people were asleep, whether they were reading the newspaper.
02:21:05.000 They just didn't care.
02:21:06.000 They just kept going.
02:21:06.000 They kept talking, talking, talking for two hours.
02:21:08.000 Straight ahead.
02:21:09.000 You know, I just, I can't do that.
02:21:11.000 I'm the exact opposite.
02:21:12.000 I panic if I feel like the person I'm talking to isn't listening to me.
02:21:15.000 That's good.
02:21:16.000 I panic.
02:21:17.000 Yeah.
02:21:17.000 And so when I see, if I'm lecturing to 200 students, I see one kid kind of just get a little distracted, I freak.
02:21:24.000 And I feel like I have to up my game right then, and I have to go directly address them.
02:21:28.000 That means you care.
02:21:29.000 Yeah.
02:21:29.000 I mean, whatever it is, I care in a particular way.
02:21:31.000 I mean, it's another form of narcissism, I suppose, but I do think that's what makes me a good teacher, because I have to have interaction.
02:21:39.000 Well, you want to connect.
02:21:40.000 Yeah.
02:21:41.000 I need to know what you're hearing.
02:21:42.000 Right.
02:21:43.000 Right?
02:21:43.000 I need to know what you're hearing from me.
02:21:45.000 That's the thing.
02:21:46.000 And then we can really talk.
02:21:47.000 And then I also am really curious.
02:21:49.000 I'm just a curious person.
02:21:50.000 And I want to know what you're thinking.
02:21:52.000 And let's do this.
02:21:53.000 And then let's have that chemistry that happened just now, which got hot.
02:21:57.000 But that's where life is.
02:22:00.000 That's where real personal relationships are.
02:22:02.000 Yeah, comics kind of do the same thing, too, because they're used to being the one who's talking on stage, or if they do a podcast, they're used to being the one who's talking all the time.
02:22:11.000 But the ones who do crowd work, right?
02:22:13.000 Amazing, if you think about it.
02:22:14.000 You know, the ones who interact have a whole part of their act where it's crowd work.
02:22:17.000 But even most comics, I mean...
02:22:20.000 They definitely have interaction with the crowd.
02:22:22.000 It happens a lot.
02:22:23.000 I mean, you're dealing with people drinking alcohol in a social environment, and it's dark out, and it's nighttime, and they're having fun, and they're laughing.
02:22:30.000 And especially when you're talking about controversial opinions and subjects, people always chime in and stuff.
02:22:36.000 And you feel it.
02:22:36.000 I mean, all the comics talk about, you know, you feel the room, you feel the reaction.
02:22:40.000 So that is interaction.
02:22:41.000 I'm talking about these professors and their tweed jackets at Columbia.
02:22:45.000 I swear to God, it didn't matter what was happening in the...
02:22:47.000 Yeah.
02:22:48.000 Well, there's a certain amount of arrogance that I'm sure you must get after being a professor.
02:22:52.000 I don't know what it is.
02:22:53.000 It's a particular narcissism.
02:22:55.000 They live entirely in their heads, right?
02:22:57.000 They just sit in their study and read books, and then they go out and then give a lecture, and then they come back and read the book.
02:23:03.000 It's a weird narcissism.
02:23:04.000 I can't But do they interact with other professors and go over their work together?
02:23:08.000 You know, I am stereotyping and generalizing.
02:23:09.000 This is not everybody, but I did see this a lot, and I still do.
02:23:13.000 Yeah, there's some interactions, but again, it's mostly through, you know, you write a paper, and then you send it out to the journal, and then some other professor reviews it anonymously often and sends it back.
02:23:22.000 It's all very weird, passive-aggressive shit, too.
02:23:25.000 Like, that's the other thing about academia I can't stand, is that they are allergic to direct conflict.
02:23:31.000 Like the argument you and I just had, that's pretty much not allowed.
02:23:35.000 Except through writing.
02:23:37.000 They'll do it through writing, but they won't do it head-to-head.
02:23:40.000 Well, that's a real problem because it takes too long to work out an idea that way.
02:23:44.000 Yeah, like real debate.
02:23:45.000 See, when I went to college, I had this idea that it would be the really smart people, like professors, like more than one, would be in a room, and they would have, you know, one major issue, and they would debate it, that there would be argument, right?
02:24:01.000 There would be a conflict of ideas about an idea.
02:24:04.000 No.
02:24:05.000 It's not that.
02:24:06.000 It's never that.
02:24:07.000 I have been in and around college campuses for 32 years.
02:24:14.000 I have never really seen a head-to-head debate like you and I just had.
02:24:19.000 That's insane.
02:24:20.000 Person to person.
02:24:21.000 I mean...
02:24:22.000 Here and there a little bit, but not like that.
02:24:24.000 Not where we were really, really going at it.
02:24:27.000 I don't think I've ever seen that.
02:24:28.000 I mean that.
02:24:29.000 And I mean among faculty.
02:24:30.000 Some students do, but faculty don't.
02:24:32.000 They're scared of it.
02:24:33.000 I'm telling you.
02:24:34.000 There's a problem with cowardice.
02:24:36.000 And one of the real tragedies with that is that, as I said, there's no real conflict of ideas, which is reinforced by the tenure system, the accreditation system.
02:24:45.000 It's this monolith where there's one...
02:24:48.000 And this is why you get these uniformity of ideas on campuses.
02:24:54.000 It's all this monolith that actually has its head at the federal government.
02:24:58.000 Do you know about the accreditation system?
02:25:02.000 It's the mafia.
02:25:03.000 People don't even know this.
02:25:05.000 To get accredited as a college or university in this country, you have to be accredited by an agency that is authorized by the Department of Education in Washington, D.C. The Secretary of Education has to authorize your existence as a legitimate,
02:25:23.000 legal college or university.
02:25:26.000 That's it.
02:25:27.000 So Renegade University, people were asking me.
02:25:30.000 Some people wanted college credit, and I was like, oh, let me look into this.
02:25:34.000 And so I did.
02:25:35.000 And I quickly found out that it's the fucking mafia that I couldn't get accredited because they have all these standards.
02:25:44.000 You have to have a particular number of buildings, a particular number of professors.
02:25:48.000 You have to have a library with a particular number of books in it.
02:25:51.000 You have to have a gym.
02:25:52.000 You have to have dorm.
02:25:53.000 All these things.
02:25:54.000 And if you don't have those things, you're not in.
02:25:57.000 You don't get that.
02:25:58.000 You don't get college credit.
02:25:59.000 So what if you did?
02:26:01.000 What's the number?
02:26:01.000 So if I gave you five credits for taking one of my courses, no other college and university would recognize it.
02:26:07.000 If you wanted to transfer, like you wanted to go to graduate school or go somewhere else.
02:26:11.000 No employers would look at it and see that it's not an accredited university where you got those credits from.
02:26:17.000 So how do those degree mills, how do they do it?
02:26:20.000 Right.
02:26:20.000 So there's two different systems that the Department of Education controls.
02:26:23.000 One is for the so-called elite prestigious schools.
02:26:27.000 Those are regional accreditation agencies, again, all authorized by the Department of Education.
02:26:33.000 And the for-profit colleges, there's a separate accreditation system called the National Accreditation System, and that's also controlled by the Department of Education.
02:26:41.000 But everybody knows within it that if you get accredited by one of the national accreditation systems, you're a bullshit for-profit.
02:26:49.000 So those credits, you can't transfer them to Harvard or Occidental or any of the elite, so-called elite schools.
02:26:58.000 So they're completely kept separate.
02:27:00.000 But if you get a degree from Phoenix University...
02:27:03.000 You can get 5,000 degrees from Phoenix University.
02:27:07.000 My degree is I can't take anywhere.
02:27:09.000 And I'm talking about even community colleges won't accept those credits.
02:27:15.000 Huh.
02:27:16.000 Yeah.
02:27:16.000 That's interesting.
02:27:17.000 It's the mafia.
02:27:18.000 So think about that, right?
02:27:20.000 The Department of Education, one person, federal government, decides who is in, who's out.
02:27:26.000 And then inside that system, there's tenure, lifetime appointment.
02:27:31.000 Those people control the curriculum, what is taught.
02:27:35.000 They also control who's hired and fired.
02:27:37.000 Faculty control all the hiring and firing of faculty and tenure.
02:27:41.000 They ultimately control that, basically.
02:27:43.000 Right?
02:27:44.000 And they're there forever, like dons in the mafia.
02:27:48.000 Seriously.
02:27:49.000 So you wonder why, when you walk into any college classroom in this country, you hear basically the same shit being said in sociology classes and history classes?
02:27:58.000 That's why.
02:28:01.000 It's astonishing.
02:28:02.000 And I didn't even know the full extent of it until I started Renegade University and people started asking me about this.
02:28:08.000 If someone allowed you to come along, if Donald Trump said, Thaddeus, I love your work, what could you do to fix that?
02:28:16.000 What would you offer as an alternative?
02:28:19.000 We have to change it.
02:28:20.000 No, there's nothing I can do.
02:28:21.000 I mean, meaning if he wanted credit, like college credit, right now there's really nothing I can do.
02:28:26.000 I can certainly give him a certificate and maybe an employer will, you know, think it's meaningful because my name's on it.
02:28:32.000 Is it less and less valuable to have a degree today?
02:28:35.000 I'm saying I'm just completely outside the system, right?
02:28:37.000 Right, I understand.
02:28:38.000 Yeah, but like if you admired me and my work, right, and you saw and he had a certificate Saying, this guy's great and he took my course.
02:28:48.000 He was an employer.
02:28:49.000 It would actually help, sure.
02:28:51.000 And then in that case, it would be meaningful, my credits.
02:28:53.000 I'm just saying that's completely outside.
02:28:55.000 It means nothing inside the system of the thousands and thousands of colleges and universities and for most employers, right?
02:29:01.000 Most employers abide by this.
02:29:04.000 They think that if you're not accredited, you're bullshit.
02:29:07.000 Right.
02:29:08.000 So we have to change it.
02:29:11.000 And Betsy DeVos, for whatever her problems are, seems to be the first Secretary of Education maybe we've ever had who could be willing to challenge this.
02:29:23.000 Really?
02:29:23.000 Yeah, because she's about deregulation and privatization and all this stuff.
02:29:27.000 And choice, school choice.
02:29:29.000 And we need a movement right now, before she's gone, to get her to abolish the national accreditation system.
02:29:37.000 It's with a stroke of a pen, I think.
02:29:40.000 And maybe a congressional act.
02:29:41.000 Probably takes a congressional act, too.
02:29:43.000 But she herself, I think, could disaccredit.
02:29:45.000 Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
02:29:46.000 She could disaccredit all those agencies right now.
02:29:48.000 So you think there's just this inherent bottleneck that it's existed for so long and that these people have been in charge of saying what is true and what's not true, what should be taught and not taught?
02:29:58.000 It's a monopoly.
02:29:59.000 It's a monopoly ultimately controlled by the federal government.
02:30:01.000 And that it's also not universally agreed that they're correct.
02:30:05.000 Correct in what way?
02:30:06.000 Correct in what they're teaching.
02:30:08.000 It's not like there's an absolute standard for what needs to be taught if someone wants to get a degree in English.
02:30:14.000 No, no, there are.
02:30:15.000 I mean, there are absolute standards.
02:30:16.000 That's what I'm saying.
02:30:17.000 You have to have this, that, and the other thing on your college campus to be accredited.
02:30:21.000 No, that's not what I mean.
02:30:21.000 I mean, in terms of what constitutes a master's degree in literature, right?
02:30:27.000 Is there an absolute standard?
02:30:30.000 Yeah.
02:30:31.000 Well, they're pretty absolute.
02:30:33.000 I mean, the accreditation agencies mostly agree on those things.
02:30:35.000 Right.
02:30:36.000 So why couldn't you just reproduce that in an environment where you're being taught by someone who obviously has a mastery of that particular subject?
02:30:44.000 Guess what, Joe?
02:30:45.000 That's what I'm doing.
02:30:46.000 That's what we're doing.
02:30:47.000 It's happening.
02:30:47.000 It's not just me.
02:30:49.000 I'm one of the pioneers, but it's happening.
02:30:51.000 How many other people are doing what you're doing?
02:30:53.000 A handful.
02:30:53.000 I mean...
02:30:54.000 But it's becoming a new...
02:30:55.000 Jordan Peterson is actually looking into doing this as well.
02:30:57.000 I hope so.
02:30:57.000 When I heard him talking about that on your show, I said, go for it, man.
02:31:00.000 Yeah.
02:31:00.000 Well, his grant was...
02:31:01.000 You know what he said?
02:31:02.000 He was...
02:31:02.000 And there's no criticism at all.
02:31:04.000 I didn't know this either until recently.
02:31:06.000 He had this idea.
02:31:07.000 What was it about accreditation?
02:31:08.000 He thought it was possible somehow to get accredited, but it's not.
02:31:11.000 You can't.
02:31:11.000 We have to start an entirely separate parallel system.
02:31:14.000 Is it a different issue in Canada?
02:31:16.000 Possibly.
02:31:16.000 That could be.
02:31:17.000 That could be.
02:31:17.000 I don't know.
02:31:18.000 Maybe he can be credited in Canada.
02:31:18.000 That's possible.
02:31:20.000 But anyway, regardless, I am all for him doing that.
02:31:22.000 I hope he does.
02:31:24.000 Well, he was recently denied a grant for the first time in his academic career.
02:31:28.000 I'm sure.
02:31:28.000 I'm sure.
02:31:28.000 They're not playing around.
02:31:29.000 They're not playing around.
02:31:30.000 No, they want him to toe the line.
02:31:32.000 This is their castle.
02:31:32.000 This is their castle.
02:31:33.000 They're not going to let the knaves in.
02:31:35.000 Well, what's interesting is because of social media and because of coming on podcasts like mine and his YouTube presence, he's actually got a large movement of people that are interested in his ideas.
02:31:46.000 He had a disastrous fucking conversation with Sam Harris.
02:31:49.000 I heard it.
02:31:49.000 I did.
02:31:50.000 What in the fuck was that all about?
02:31:51.000 Well, he's holding on to God.
02:31:53.000 Well, the first one wasn't even that.
02:31:55.000 It was about truth.
02:31:56.000 That was God, though.
02:31:57.000 Was it?
02:31:58.000 Yeah, because Jordan...
02:32:00.000 He's religious, and he believes in God.
02:32:01.000 Well, he's religious.
02:32:02.000 So he wants to hold on to this idea about...
02:32:06.000 What is truth being valuable for humankind versus what is truth like one plus one equals two?
02:32:12.000 Yeah, right.
02:32:13.000 Moral truth.
02:32:14.000 Yes.
02:32:14.000 Moral truth versus actual truth.
02:32:15.000 I was kind of on neither side in that one.
02:32:17.000 It was so verbose.
02:32:18.000 There was too many words.
02:32:20.000 It was tough.
02:32:21.000 Like, you guys gotta fucking edit this down.
02:32:23.000 That was tough.
02:32:23.000 Well, Jordan had to boil it down.
02:32:25.000 And they did a way better podcast the second time.
02:32:27.000 Did you hear the second one?
02:32:29.000 No.
02:32:29.000 Much, much better.
02:32:30.000 Yeah.
02:32:31.000 Much more concise, much clearer.
02:32:33.000 But again, I think there was a certain amount of heel digging on both sides.
02:32:37.000 They dug their heels in, they stood their ground on this one really preposterous issue, which was like, you know, you're listening to this, like, Jesus fucking Christ, guys, you're just talking about truth for an hour and a half.
02:32:48.000 Like, what is truth?
02:32:48.000 Here's what's true.
02:32:50.000 Fire burns paper.
02:32:51.000 That's fucking true.
02:32:52.000 Okay?
02:32:53.000 Like, take a piece of paper, light it on fire.
02:32:55.000 Joe, stop.
02:32:56.000 God damn it.
02:32:57.000 You're going to make me go again.
02:32:58.000 I don't want to have this conversation.
02:32:59.000 No, it's really important, but let's leave it there.
02:33:01.000 Yeah.
02:33:02.000 And so I did agree with them, Sam and Jordan, that it is really important.
02:33:05.000 I just disagree with them about what's going on.
02:33:07.000 But anyway.
02:33:08.000 The definition of the word true.
02:33:10.000 But you know what?
02:33:11.000 They should have had more leeway on both sides with that.
02:33:15.000 Anyway, here's the thing.
02:33:17.000 He's a fascinating guy.
02:33:18.000 Totally.
02:33:19.000 I have major disagreements with Sam Jordan, but they're still heroic and I'm totally with them because they are doing this.
02:33:27.000 I mean, Sam's not doing it formally, but he's essentially part of this movement.
02:33:30.000 You're part of this movement.
02:33:32.000 You know what the election was about?
02:33:34.000 It was about a civil war in this country that's been going on for a long time that finally came to a head in November.
02:33:40.000 Which is a war between the people who went to college and the elite colleges in particular and who are of that culture that's created in those colleges and those who are not of that culture.
02:33:50.000 That's what that that's what that election was about.
02:33:52.000 I think there is this schism between those two groups in this country and that finally the people who are not of the elite college culture won something and it caused the elites to freak completely out.
02:34:06.000 So if you look at like I was looking at the top podcast because, you know, I just started a podcast and it did get ranked and so I'm excited, but I'm looking at it a lot and like you can really see it clearly.
02:34:16.000 Just look at the top 200 podcasts right now.
02:34:19.000 It's like 60 to 70% are like NPR. Cookie cutter, same shit.
02:34:24.000 Coastal, elite, liberal, bland, you know, you know what it is.
02:34:28.000 Tone of voice, what they say, who their guests are, all the same.
02:34:32.000 You know exactly what it is, right?
02:34:33.000 It's dominated by that, but then there's you in there.
02:34:36.000 You're not that.
02:34:38.000 There's Sam Harris, who's sort of that, but not really.
02:34:41.000 There's Dan Carlin.
02:34:43.000 There's another one, right?
02:34:44.000 He's part of this movement.
02:34:45.000 He doesn't have a school, but he's teaching people history.
02:34:48.000 Oh, fuck yeah.
02:34:48.000 He's teaching people history.
02:34:49.000 A lot of people history.
02:34:51.000 More people than any Harvard professor will ever teach.
02:34:54.000 I would argue more than any historian ever.
02:34:56.000 Way more.
02:34:56.000 Way more.
02:34:57.000 He gets millions of downloads.
02:34:58.000 Way more.
02:34:59.000 What history lecture is anybody, in the numbers like millions, producing?
02:35:04.000 Is he a serious historian?
02:35:06.000 I've listened to him.
02:35:07.000 I'm a professionally trained historian.
02:35:09.000 Ivy League PhD.
02:35:11.000 Hell yeah, he is.
02:35:12.000 You know, I don't agree with everything, but it doesn't matter.
02:35:14.000 He's doing serious academic, professional, important history, and he is changing the landscape.
02:35:21.000 I agree.
02:35:21.000 Okay.
02:35:22.000 He's on there.
02:35:23.000 So there's some of us.
02:35:25.000 There's some of us.
02:35:26.000 We're making it happen.
02:35:27.000 But you can just see it's such a divide.
02:35:29.000 There's just such a divide between who's on your podcast and who's on the NPR podcast.
02:35:35.000 It's hardly any crossover.
02:35:37.000 Yeah, but that's just my choice.
02:35:39.000 Interesting.
02:35:39.000 I could call those people.
02:35:41.000 There's a lot of people that I get that are on those NPR podcasts.
02:35:44.000 That's my point, is that there's sort of two different cultures that's happening right now.
02:35:49.000 There's just that culture.
02:35:51.000 And this is kind of a problem my girlfriend and I have, because she's of that culture.
02:35:54.000 Most of the people I know are NPR types.
02:35:56.000 That's what they want to hear.
02:35:57.000 It's comforting, it's soothing, whatever.
02:35:58.000 It makes them feel good.
02:35:59.000 I don't know.
02:36:00.000 But they're really, that's who they are fundamentally.
02:36:02.000 It's like their identity.
02:36:04.000 And then, you know, when they hear your podcast or my podcast or anyone's, it's like punk rock to an 80-year-old.
02:36:15.000 It's just hard.
02:36:16.000 It's just a different culture.
02:36:17.000 It's like a different language, different way of behaving, different ideas are questioned, different questions are asked.
02:36:24.000 And there's this resentment, too, because the elites, the NPR types, I believe, have basically looked, not basically, they have looked down their noses at those who didn't go to college, who don't speak the way we speak, who don't talk about these ideas,
02:36:40.000 who aren't aware of these ideas, right?
02:36:43.000 Working class people, like people in Salem, I know, right?
02:36:45.000 People who, oh, you know, Meryl Streep said it best, right, about MMA, right?
02:36:50.000 That was it right there.
02:36:52.000 They clearly see all those people outside this elite bi-coastal culture as doing bad stuff, inferior stuff, and they shouldn't be allowed to run things.
02:37:02.000 Well, what she said was so inherently ridiculous and also ignorant because she was also claiming that if you take out the immigrants, you're left with MMA. MMA is 80% immigrants.
02:37:13.000 Sure.
02:37:14.000 Like, literally.
02:37:14.000 What she said was stupid, ignorant, and, more importantly, I think, classist in that way, right?
02:37:21.000 It's like, you're not smart enough.
02:37:23.000 You're not good enough.
02:37:25.000 She's so wrong.
02:37:26.000 Like, there's a lot of Americans that engage in MMA, for sure.
02:37:29.000 But...
02:37:30.000 There's so many great fighters that are immigrants.
02:37:33.000 I mean, a massive, massive amount.
02:37:35.000 It's not a small amount.
02:37:37.000 So she was saying, take out all the immigrants you left with MMA. That is so dumb.
02:37:41.000 Yeah, you know what those people do with the immigrants who do things like MMA? They ignore them.
02:37:46.000 They pretend they don't exist.
02:37:48.000 They pretend they don't exist.
02:37:49.000 It doesn't fit the narrow narrative they're trying to promote.
02:37:51.000 What they want is the immigrant, who also very much exists, they want the undocumented mom with the kid who got stopped at the border and sent back, who breaks my heart too.
02:37:59.000 Yeah, my two.
02:38:00.000 Absolutely.
02:38:01.000 But they want them only to be what?
02:38:03.000 Victims.
02:38:03.000 What's the solution to that?
02:38:05.000 That they can save.
02:38:05.000 What is the solution to illegal immigration in this country?
02:38:08.000 Do you just let everybody in?
02:38:09.000 I'm an open borders guy.
02:38:10.000 Yeah.
02:38:11.000 Open borders.
02:38:11.000 Just let anybody in who wants to come in.
02:38:13.000 Speaking of inventions and social constructs that have done great harm to humanity.
02:38:17.000 Borders.
02:38:17.000 Borders.
02:38:18.000 Yeah.
02:38:18.000 I agree that eventually that's going to be a thing of the past.
02:38:21.000 I think it'll be looked back, when we look back at history, it'll be thought of as one of the most barbaric ideas.
02:38:29.000 Right?
02:38:29.000 Can you imagine?
02:38:30.000 It's barbaric in the way that, like, it used to be that you had a tribe and then you invaded another tribe, or they invaded you, and you had to put up a fence and guard your border.
02:38:38.000 And then these things became like larger communities, these communities became cities, became countries, became And then, you know, go back a few thousand years, you're dealing with these countries invading other countries.
02:38:50.000 And so you have these immigration policies, especially now, where we have border patrols and this idea that you have to have your paperwork, you have to have passports and numbers, and otherwise you were born in the wrong patch of dirt, sir.
02:39:03.000 If you were just born 30 miles north, you could have been in Texas, but you're in Juarez, you fuck, so you stay over here.
02:39:10.000 It's silly.
02:39:11.000 Speaking of social constructions and social constructions that have changed over time, right?
02:39:17.000 Damn, telling a Mexican they can't come here?
02:39:20.000 Are you crazy?
02:39:21.000 Like, this was Mexico five minutes ago, you assholes.
02:39:23.000 Who the fuck are you?
02:39:24.000 I mean, it's astonishing the arrogance of Americans who think that Mexicans have no place here.
02:39:30.000 I mean, there weren't no white people here a long time ago.
02:39:32.000 Well, not only that, I mean, you just got lucky.
02:39:34.000 You were born into this, like, economically promising area where, you know, you got better opportunities.
02:39:42.000 And you're looking at these people that were born in a shit spot, and you're like, well, you're in that shit spot forever.
02:39:48.000 You can't come over here and take my good spot.
02:39:50.000 It also works against us, right?
02:39:52.000 Because then it becomes harder for us to travel elsewhere.
02:39:54.000 Because then they have borders.
02:39:56.000 They don't like Americans because of what we do to them.
02:39:58.000 When I go to Mexico, you know, I just, like...
02:40:01.000 I love it there.
02:40:02.000 And I keep thinking, man, it's amazing that you're treating me this well.
02:40:06.000 Because Mexicans are so kind, generally, you know, when you're down there.
02:40:09.000 I'm like, God, you should hate Americans.
02:40:11.000 What we've done to them in terms of the border, immigration, and the drug war.
02:40:15.000 I mean, the deaths, the poverty that we've inflicted on them through these laws.
02:40:22.000 For shitty policy.
02:40:23.000 My God.
02:40:24.000 I mean, they have every reason to hate our guts and they don't.
02:40:27.000 Yeah, well, no, Mexicans overall are very kind people.
02:40:30.000 My parents live in Mexico.
02:40:31.000 Really?
02:40:31.000 Yeah.
02:40:32.000 I didn't know that.
02:40:32.000 Yeah, I love Mexico.
02:40:33.000 I love it.
02:40:33.000 I go to Mexico all the time.
02:40:34.000 Incredible place.
02:40:35.000 I try to go...
02:40:36.000 It's one of my favorite places to go on vacation, for sure.
02:40:39.000 And I know a lot of people...
02:40:40.000 I have a lot of friends here.
02:40:41.000 They're scared.
02:40:42.000 They're scared of Mexico.
02:40:43.000 Sure.
02:40:43.000 They think Mexico is all gang violence and all that.
02:40:45.000 I'm like, read about Chicago.
02:40:47.000 You're not scared to go to Chicago.
02:40:49.000 Chicago is fucking murders every day.
02:40:52.000 That's a good point.
02:40:53.000 Trump, Chicago, Mexico, violence.
02:40:57.000 You know what he was saying about these illegal immigrants being violent and criminals and stuff?
02:41:01.000 He wasn't wrong entirely.
02:41:03.000 Here's what people are ignoring, that it's true that the cartels have moved into the Midwest.
02:41:10.000 You know about this?
02:41:11.000 In particular, Chicago.
02:41:12.000 I have heard of that.
02:41:12.000 El Chapo and others, too.
02:41:14.000 They have moved into the Midwest.
02:41:15.000 They're in Kentucky.
02:41:16.000 Do a Google search for, like, Mexican cartel and pick, like, a town in Kentucky and Ohio, Indiana.
02:41:22.000 They're all over the Midwest.
02:41:24.000 And they're competing.
02:41:25.000 They're kicking out the old gangs.
02:41:27.000 And that's why there's all this violence on the streets.
02:41:29.000 A lot of those black kids in Chicago who are shooting each other are working for one of those cartels, basically.
02:41:35.000 So Trump was right about that, but he's totally wrong about the answer to it.
02:41:39.000 And what liberals do in response to it is even worse, which is pretend it's not happening.
02:41:43.000 Yeah, no, people are killing each other.
02:41:44.000 But why?
02:41:45.000 Why?
02:41:46.000 Because drugs are illegal.
02:41:47.000 Yes.
02:41:48.000 Because drugs are illegal, and we want them to be illegal.
02:41:51.000 We vote for those laws.
02:41:53.000 Well, I met a guy in Chicago who was a cop, and he explained it to me in great detail.
02:41:59.000 And he said essentially what happened is they moved in and they arrested a lot of these drug lords, these local people that were in charge of whatever areas, and they were running whatever criminal organization.
02:42:10.000 They arrest them, and they created a power vacuum.
02:42:12.000 Yep.
02:42:12.000 And the way he was saying, he's like, it's no different than when we remove a dictator in some foreign country.
02:42:17.000 Bad people move in, and then it creates violence.
02:42:19.000 You get ISIS. Exactly.
02:42:21.000 Exactly.
02:42:21.000 Yeah, so, but you don't hear people talking about this.
02:42:24.000 Right.
02:42:24.000 It's incredible.
02:42:25.000 That's what's going on.
02:42:25.000 Yes, the cartels are here.
02:42:27.000 Yes, Trump- Because drugs are illegal.
02:42:28.000 Trump is too goddamn dumb to make the full point, and he's also beholden to these asshole Republicans like Jeff Sessions, who thinks that marijuana is dangerous.
02:42:37.000 He wants to bring back just saying no.
02:42:38.000 So he's not saying, he has no idea, or at least he's not saying what the actual cause is, right?
02:42:43.000 And liberals are sort of abetting him by ignoring it, by saying, oh no, there is no violence.
02:42:48.000 It's like, no, fuckers, there is tremendous violence, and the cause is your laws against drugs.
02:42:54.000 Right, right.
02:42:55.000 So the answer is really simple.
02:42:58.000 Legalize drugs.
02:42:59.000 Yeah.
02:42:59.000 But because our government is just a fight between this moron, Trump, and these morons, the Democrats, who refuse to address this stuff, there's no discussion about it.
02:43:12.000 But if you do legalize drugs, how do you do that?
02:43:14.000 Like, say if the United States just decided we're going to decriminalize all drugs, and that's not good enough because someone's going to sell them, right?
02:43:22.000 You can't just decriminalize them.
02:43:23.000 But that just keeps people from getting arrested, which is a great step, a good move in the right direction.
02:43:29.000 There's some insane number of people in America that are in prison right now for nonviolent drug offenses.
02:43:36.000 It's a nutty number.
02:43:38.000 That's a side note, but a really important one.
02:43:40.000 There is now a debate among academics who study this stuff.
02:43:44.000 And a lot of academics who are actually more or less on the right side of this are arguing that the drug war and making drugs illegal is not the major cause of mass incarceration.
02:43:53.000 Because the number, the percentage of people, it is big, but it's something like 10% who are nonviolent drug offenders who are prosecuted and convicted of just drug offenses.
02:44:04.000 That is a relatively small number.
02:44:05.000 But what they're not taking into account is...
02:44:08.000 All of the other crimes that stem from drugs being illegal, right?
02:44:14.000 All the murders, all the assaults.
02:44:16.000 Take all the homicides in this country, right?
02:44:18.000 I want to see a number, but I'm sure it's really high, of how many were committed by a gang member, okay?
02:44:24.000 And how many of the gangs in the United States basically started by selling drugs?
02:44:29.000 Right?
02:44:30.000 Right.
02:44:30.000 Okay.
02:44:30.000 There's that.
02:44:31.000 Homicides, assault, gangs, drugs.
02:44:34.000 There is larceny, theft, people who are hooked on drugs, who are broke, in large part because drug prices are so high.
02:44:42.000 Why are they so high?
02:44:43.000 Because they're illegal.
02:44:45.000 Right.
02:44:46.000 Right?
02:44:46.000 They have to get them on the black market, always raises prices.
02:44:48.000 So they're forced to steal because they're poor people.
02:44:51.000 Right?
02:44:52.000 So a huge percentage, and they don't track this because...
02:44:55.000 The convictions are, you know, if it's a junkie who steals from somebody to score, they don't count that as a drug crime.
02:45:05.000 They count it as just larceny.
02:45:07.000 So we don't know.
02:45:08.000 But I am sure, and this is what social scientists need to do right now, is start to make that, do that work and find out exactly how many people are in prison for some reason related to the fact that drugs are illegal.
02:45:19.000 And I'll bet you it's a huge number.
02:45:21.000 Yeah, I bet you're right.
02:45:22.000 It's also like these gangs, if they don't sell drugs, they have no other method of income.
02:45:28.000 Exactly.
02:45:28.000 Unless they're just knocking over trucks filled with equipment and then reselling it.
02:45:32.000 Like, what are they doing?
02:45:33.000 They have no income.
02:45:33.000 They have no power.
02:45:34.000 Exactly.
02:45:34.000 Right?
02:45:35.000 Yeah.
02:45:35.000 So, I mean, the mafia in the 1920s was enormously powerful.
02:45:40.000 Right.
02:45:40.000 Hugely powerful.
02:45:41.000 Why?
02:45:41.000 Because of this...
02:45:42.000 Prohibition.
02:45:43.000 Exactly.
02:45:43.000 100%.
02:45:43.000 So that's...
02:45:44.000 You take away...
02:45:44.000 I've said this to people, like, what was...
02:45:48.000 The great Netflix series was about him, the huge drug lord.
02:45:51.000 13?
02:45:51.000 No, in Columbia.
02:45:52.000 Oh, yeah.
02:45:53.000 Narcos.
02:45:54.000 What was his name?
02:45:56.000 Escobar.
02:45:56.000 Escobar, yeah.
02:45:57.000 So, Escobar.
02:45:58.000 So, make drugs.
02:45:59.000 If drugs were legal, how many people did Escobar kill?
02:46:03.000 None.
02:46:04.000 Or two or one or something, right?
02:46:06.000 I mean, he killed thousands of people.
02:46:07.000 Right.
02:46:08.000 But if they're legal, here's the deal.
02:46:10.000 Like, who's profiting off of those, right?
02:46:13.000 That's where it gets really slippery.
02:46:14.000 If you make drugs legal, and then there's got to be, like, right now, the people that are selling them are criminals, right?
02:46:22.000 If you make it legal, they're going to still sell them.
02:46:24.000 Like, they're just gonna sell them legally?
02:46:26.000 Like, how do you make this transition between drugs being legal and then people being able to sell them?
02:46:33.000 Like, how does that work?
02:46:34.000 Like, how do you do that in an orderly way?
02:46:37.000 How do you preserve sanity and humanity and civilization?
02:46:40.000 What do you mean?
02:46:41.000 1933, they ended prohibition.
02:46:42.000 Yeah, but alcohol was something that...
02:46:45.000 Well, you know what they did, though?
02:46:45.000 What's that?
02:46:46.000 They regulated it heavily, which created new problems.
02:46:50.000 Right.
02:46:51.000 And it caused the state to be all up in our business in all sorts of ways.
02:46:55.000 So, like, you had to get licensed to sell alcohol, right?
02:46:59.000 Right.
02:46:59.000 And what that meant was an inspector from the state came to your bar or your restaurant or whatever, And looked around and asked you questions and checked on who you were hiring, who worked there, who your customers were, what kinds of customers.
02:47:11.000 And if you didn't fit all the rules of, you know, polite society, or, and this was true, great histories have been done about this, if you had the homosexuals coming into your bar.
02:47:22.000 Oh, drunk homos.
02:47:23.000 You don't want that.
02:47:24.000 Or the prostitutes.
02:47:25.000 Or the prostitutes coming into your bar.
02:47:27.000 Or even women who were a little bit loose with their morality, you didn't get a license.
02:47:31.000 Really?
02:47:31.000 Yeah.
02:47:32.000 Loose women could stop you from getting a bar license?
02:47:34.000 Absolutely.
02:47:35.000 Boy.
02:47:36.000 I know.
02:47:36.000 What kind of world we live in.
02:47:38.000 I'm telling you.
02:47:38.000 So, just decriminalize, we will be fine.
02:47:41.000 But if you just decriminalize, who's selling it?
02:47:43.000 Right?
02:47:44.000 It's still going to be illegal to sell.
02:47:46.000 No.
02:47:46.000 Right?
02:47:47.000 Decriminalization doesn't mean legalization in terms of, like, profitability.
02:47:51.000 Like Mexico.
02:47:52.000 Do you know that all drugs essentially are decriminalized in Mexico, including mushrooms, acid?
02:47:58.000 Yeah, so those definitions change according to the industry, which is a pain in the ass.
02:48:02.000 But so sometimes decrim means just no laws at all, right?
02:48:05.000 Right.
02:48:06.000 None.
02:48:07.000 But legalization usually means, not always, but usually means regulations.
02:48:11.000 Right.
02:48:12.000 Taxing.
02:48:13.000 Right.
02:48:13.000 Taxing.
02:48:13.000 So like with weed.
02:48:15.000 Weed got legalized.
02:48:15.000 Well, that's where the money comes in.
02:48:16.000 Weed got legalized and it's heavily regulated, etc.
02:48:19.000 But it's not that heavily regulated in Colorado.
02:48:21.000 It's pretty easy to get.
02:48:23.000 I know.
02:48:23.000 I thought it was.
02:48:23.000 Well, the regulation comes in the banking.
02:48:26.000 The banking's weird, because the federal government still has it classified as a Schedule I substance, and it's illegal, so there's a huge issue with people having to accept cash only, so they hired a bunch of seals and mercs and all these fucking guys that would've probably worked for mercenary organizations.
02:48:43.000 Now they're fucking carrying around drug money from people selling pot, and then they have to take it to the bank and put it in safe deposit boxes and deposit it into these accounts.
02:48:52.000 Weird ways.
02:48:53.000 It's very fucking, it's really problematic.
02:48:56.000 And that keeps a lot of people out of the market.
02:48:58.000 Yes.
02:48:59.000 But it's good because it hires soldiers.
02:49:02.000 You know, give them something peaceful to do.
02:49:04.000 It's an employment program.
02:49:04.000 That's great.
02:49:05.000 That's what we need.
02:49:06.000 More hired killers.
02:49:08.000 Isn't it true that they...
02:49:09.000 Give them jobs.
02:49:10.000 You don't want them not having jobs.
02:49:11.000 That's true.
02:49:12.000 Once you teach people how to kill people, be nice to them.
02:49:14.000 I certainly would rather them do that than killing Iraqis.
02:49:17.000 Yeah.
02:49:18.000 I thought they also disallowed people with prior felonies from participating in the industry.
02:49:24.000 Is that true in Colorado?
02:49:26.000 I don't know.
02:49:26.000 I've seen this and that meant it's all white.
02:49:29.000 I do not know.
02:49:29.000 Well, there's a lot of black people that don't have felonies, you racist bastard.
02:49:34.000 How dare you?
02:49:35.000 Did you hear what he said?
02:49:35.000 Dude, that was a complete Huffington Post item I just gave you.
02:49:38.000 I know, right?
02:49:39.000 Yeah.
02:49:40.000 And you called it racist.
02:49:41.000 Wow, I don't know what to do now.
02:49:43.000 It's more a salon.
02:49:44.000 It's kind of a salon.com.
02:49:46.000 Yeah.
02:49:46.000 Oh, man.
02:49:48.000 Alright, man.
02:49:48.000 We just did three hours.
02:49:49.000 Damn, no way.
02:49:50.000 We flew by.
02:49:51.000 Look, it's 4.30.
02:49:52.000 Unbelievable.
02:49:52.000 Yeah.
02:49:53.000 Time flies when you're having fun.
02:49:54.000 Yeah, totally.
02:49:55.000 Tell everybody what your podcast is.
02:49:56.000 Yeah.
02:49:56.000 Tell everybody where they can get it.
02:49:57.000 Cool.
02:49:58.000 Yeah, I got a few things going on, but yeah, the Unregistered with Thaddeus Russell, the podcast.
02:50:03.000 And what else?
02:50:03.000 It's at thaddeusrussell.com.
02:50:05.000 There's a page for the podcast.
02:50:06.000 It's on iTunes.
02:50:07.000 I believe it's top 50. It's top 50 in news and politics right now.
02:50:10.000 And then I got Renegade University.
02:50:12.000 I got an event coming up in Massachusetts in August, Joe's Old Stomping Grounds.
02:50:16.000 Salem, Massachusetts, August 4th through 6th.
02:50:18.000 What are you doing out there?
02:50:20.000 It's a weekend.
02:50:21.000 Besides burning witches.
02:50:21.000 That's all they do out there.
02:50:22.000 Whole weekend seminar.
02:50:23.000 I'm talking about history and theory and politics.
02:50:25.000 Oh, beautiful.
02:50:26.000 Okay.
02:50:26.000 I've already sold out the VIPs, but there's more.
02:50:29.000 The general admission is still on sale.
02:50:31.000 And then I'm doing that with a great group, which I meant to mention, School Sucks Project, who is actually one of the very first pioneers of this whole movement I was talking about to just overthrow the whole educational system and replace it with actual thought and ideas and debate.
02:50:44.000 Who's running this?
02:50:45.000 His name's Brett Vinat.
02:50:46.000 Great guy.
02:50:47.000 He's just running a podcast.
02:50:48.000 He was a teacher?
02:50:50.000 Yeah.
02:50:50.000 In New Hampshire.
02:50:51.000 And he just, he was too smart for that system and got sick of it.
02:50:54.000 And he left and said, I'm just going to do a podcast.
02:50:56.000 He had no platform, you know, not a celebrity at all.
02:50:58.000 And it grew and grew and grew.
02:51:00.000 And he's got this huge following.
02:51:01.000 Connect me to him.
02:51:02.000 I'll have him on.
02:51:03.000 Awesome.
02:51:03.000 I'd love to have him on.
02:51:04.000 Brett is amazing.
02:51:05.000 And he's got this big following and he's had me on the show a lot.
02:51:07.000 So he and I are co-producing.
02:51:09.000 We're good to go.
02:51:29.000 For four weeks, talking about renegade history of the United States.
02:51:32.000 Four weeks?
02:51:33.000 Four nights.
02:51:34.000 Oh.
02:51:34.000 Over four weeks.
02:51:35.000 Oh, it's one night.
02:51:37.000 Thursday night for four weeks.
02:51:39.000 That's it.
02:51:40.000 Right here in L.A., west side, renegade history of the United States, just with me and 20 people.
02:51:44.000 And that's on my web.
02:51:45.000 And that starts next Thursday.
02:51:46.000 Excellent.
02:51:47.000 And then, yeah, my website's got a bunch of stuff.
02:51:49.000 But that's it.
02:51:51.000 I'm busy, man.
02:51:51.000 I'm really busy.
02:51:52.000 Good.
02:51:53.000 But all in good ways.
02:51:54.000 Sounds awesome.
02:51:55.000 Thank you so much.
02:51:55.000 Alright, stop getting hit in the head.
02:51:57.000 Okay, I'll try.
02:51:57.000 Don't be sparring with people.
02:51:58.000 I'll be smarter next time.
02:51:59.000 Alright, beautiful.
02:52:00.000 Thank you, brother.
02:52:00.000 Appreciate it, man.
02:52:01.000 Daddy, it's Russell, ladies and gentlemen.
02:52:03.000 We'll be back tomorrow with Everlast from the House of Pain.
02:52:05.000 Holla!