The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #956

00:00:06.000 Boom.

00:00:07.000 Yes.

00:00:08.000 Boom.

00:00:08.000 We're live.

00:00:09.000 What's up, brother?

00:00:09.000 How are you, man?

00:00:10.000 How are you, Joe?

00:00:11.000 You got a little pocket hanky there?

00:00:14.000 A little pocket square?

00:00:16.000 Well, I'll tell you why I wear a pocket square.

00:00:18.000 Please.

00:00:19.000 Because if you don't wear a pocket square, you have the appearance that you've been squeezed into a sports jacket or a suit.

00:00:27.000 For conventional reasons that your mum put you in there or you're off to church or something or you're going to the office.

00:00:33.000 Right.

00:00:34.000 As soon as you put a pocket square in there, you own the jacket.

00:00:37.000 It's your idea, not someone else's idea.

00:00:40.000 Ooh.

00:00:41.000 Dude, you're thinking several steps ahead.

00:00:43.000 I like it.

00:00:46.000 We're going to get into this, aren't we, Jack?

00:00:47.000 We are going to get into this.

00:00:48.000 Well, we were talking before the podcast about these press junkets and about how you entertain yourself by forcing yourself to use a certain word.

00:00:57.000 Yeah, the danger, the worst thing in the film business is press junkets, and as you were saying, they're rather ineffective, and that's my suspicion too.

00:01:07.000 They're also inefficient and ineffective, because you sit in a chair, someone comes in, and they ask you a question, why?

00:01:17.000 How good an actor is David Beckham when he's in Underpants or whatever it is?

00:01:20.000 And you answer it in some facile fashion.

00:01:24.000 And on the fourth time you answer that question, you're starting to swat flies that aren't there.

00:01:32.000 You're starting to go mad.

00:01:34.000 So what happens is you have to play games with yourself.

00:01:36.000 So you get someone on the side to throw different words at you like valetudinarian or barissimilitude.

00:01:41.000 And then that keeps you occupied, because you're thinking, when someone asked me about Beckham and his underpants, I've somehow got to stick in a verisimilitude.

00:01:49.000 And I tell you, it's not easy.

00:01:51.000 And your answers become very creative.

00:01:53.000 Well, to ask someone to be sincere and ask the same questions over and over and over again to them, like to have people keep filing in, and a new person comes in and asks, so tell us about this film, and how did this get started?

00:02:05.000 And so, whose idea was it?

00:02:09.000 So, I saw a film, John Borman, made Excalibur in about 1980. And I was an impressionable young man of 10. And it was the first, like, knights in shining armour film that ever spoke to me.

00:02:22.000 I wasn't particularly interested in Errol Flynn or any incarnation that they did in the 50s in this genre.

00:02:31.000 But John Borman's one was rather good.

00:02:32.000 It was very aggressive.

00:02:33.000 And no one spoke to one another.

00:02:36.000 They all shouted at one another.

00:02:38.000 So it took some time before you realise that's why it was so intense.

00:02:42.000 It's quite camp.

00:02:44.000 So it had this sort of weird juxtaposition of being camp, yet simultaneously aggressive.

00:02:50.000 And, you know, they had a budget of $25 and no visual effects and lots of very shiny 19th century armour.

00:02:59.000 And it made a real impression on me because it was a voice.

00:03:05.000 It was a creative voice.

00:03:06.000 So it made an impression on me and then somewhere in the attic of my mind I relegated it until the point where I had enough creative ideas in my reservoir to bring it forward and make a film and then someone gave me money and Warner Brothers wanted to make it and yada yada yada.

00:03:21.000 And then it was the challenge, I suppose, of trying to take a sojourn into this...

00:03:28.000 The fantasy, epic fantasy, Medievally, Lord of the Rings-y kind of a world.

00:03:35.000 And it's completely out of my wheelhouse.

00:03:38.000 So I find the challenge provocative and exciting as well.

00:03:41.000 It's a fascinating era, or a genre, you know, that fascinating world of the fantasy, you know, knights and swords and bows and arrows.

00:03:51.000 That realm, for whatever reason, has been intoxicating to people for a long time.

00:03:56.000 Yeah, it's an archetype.

00:03:57.000 So you're interested in farm and you're interested in nurses.

00:04:02.000 You're interested in the superheroes, obviously.

00:04:06.000 I mean, arguably Arthur was the first superhero because he's the guy that extracts the sword and his galloper can do all sorts of wondrous things.

00:04:13.000 And this myth is 1,200 years old, 1,400 years old.

00:04:19.000 And it's as relevant today as it was then.

00:04:23.000 But because it's an archetype, That somehow kids either dress up as firemen, policemen, soldiers or knights.

00:04:30.000 So it's almost like we relived it.

00:04:36.000 It's like an outfit that we wore 1,200 years ago, so you feel familiar in it.

00:04:41.000 It's fascinating that that one genre, that one sort of archetype is just locked into the psyche of people.

00:04:49.000 Yeah, it's there, isn't it?

00:04:51.000 The other thing about it, which is quite fun, is you can take these kind of mystical rides into metaphor.

00:04:59.000 So you can symbolize things with 300-foot elephants, which you can't do in...

00:05:05.000 Some version of a realistic world.

00:05:08.000 So it becomes you have broad poetic license to take liberties.

00:05:13.000 Are you using CGI in this movie?

00:05:15.000 A lot of it.

00:05:16.000 Yeah, wow.

00:05:16.000 What's that like?

00:05:18.000 Um...

00:05:20.000 Boring but creative.

00:05:23.000 It's three years to make this movie.

00:05:24.000 I'm used to making movies that take three months to write.

00:05:27.000 Three years?

00:05:28.000 Three years.

00:05:29.000 Wow.

00:05:30.000 Three months to write from beginning to end.

00:05:32.000 Something like Snatch was three months.

00:05:33.000 Six weeks to shoot.

00:05:35.000 Two months to edit.

00:05:36.000 So Snatch was three months to do the whole thing or to write it?

00:05:39.000 To write it and to shoot it.

00:05:42.000 The whole thing, from the beginning to the way it was done?

00:05:44.000 Beginning to the end was six months.

00:05:45.000 Oh, wow.

00:05:46.000 And then three months, say, for editing.

00:05:49.000 So you're wrapped and packed in nine months, ten months.

00:05:52.000 So this is a totally different kind of commitment as far as your mind and...

00:05:58.000 Yeah, if I really knew what I was getting into, I would have asked for double bubble on the salary.

00:06:03.000 Because you thought I think this could be a year and a half.

00:06:06.000 It's not.

00:06:07.000 It's three years.

00:06:09.000 When you play on a movie like this, a big epic movie, do you have an actual schedule of when you think it's going to begin and when it's going to end?

00:06:16.000 You do, but the terrain of filmmaking has changed exponentially with technology.

00:06:25.000 So what was pertinent last year is not pertinent this year.

00:06:29.000 So release dates are a real dog.

00:06:32.000 So we had a release date which was projected a couple of years from...

00:06:36.000 When you start the movie, so they go, right, here's a check, make the movie.

00:06:39.000 You're coming out in...

00:06:41.000 We were supposed to come out exactly a year ago.

00:06:44.000 But then what happens is, if you're not a branded movie, you get...

00:06:49.000 Elbowed off that date, you know, Star Wars or something will come along, and then you're not going to compete with Star Wars.

00:06:56.000 So you've got to move because you can't compete.

00:06:59.000 So you've got a very crowded market with lots of brands.

00:07:02.000 Now, this isn't something that we used to suffer because everyone was equal.

00:07:07.000 Going into the equation, you give yourself the advantage of having a movie star or something, but that doesn't exist anymore.

00:07:13.000 What exists now Is the brand.

00:07:16.000 Is the big brother.

00:07:17.000 So he comes muscling and bullies his way into a weekend.

00:07:21.000 And that's why you can't really get new films breaking through.

00:07:24.000 Because those weekends are already occupied.

00:07:27.000 So trying to break through is a real struggle.

00:07:30.000 We had to wait a year for a date.

00:07:31.000 And the date that we're coming out on is one weekend after Guardians.

00:07:36.000 Now Guardians will be a vast hit.

00:07:39.000 And it's very dangerous being within the parameters of a big movie.

00:07:44.000 That's a really interesting thing that only movies have to go through these days, right?

00:07:48.000 I mean it's one of the rare things where people are getting out and going to see something that's been made together in a group.

00:07:54.000 You know, that you're watching media.

00:07:56.000 Like, it's not a live performance.

00:07:58.000 It's something that's been created, and it's going to press play at 8pm on Friday night, and everybody's going to go to see it, and you've got to get as many of those people together as you can.

00:08:07.000 It's one of the rare things like that.

00:08:10.000 Yeah, and it's becoming more polarized.

00:08:12.000 So it means more now.

00:08:15.000 So you're opening weekend, everything's about, they know what you're going to make by Thursday evening.

00:08:18.000 Right.

00:08:19.000 You're supposed to be coming out on Friday, and everyone knows what you're going to make by Sunday night on a Thursday evening.

00:08:24.000 There's enough clever people out there tapping into clever little boxes, and the computer says, da-da-da-da-da, and they're seldom wrong.

00:08:34.000 Now, that never used to be the case.

00:08:35.000 You used to come out, and the films would get discovered, you used to have a little platform, you start small, go big, that sort of nonsense.

00:08:41.000 Now you've just got to come out ball-swinging.

00:08:43.000 And if you don't come out ball-swinging, people get very upset, and they think that this is a failure, it hasn't lived up to expectations, even if it's a creative success, nobody likes it.

00:08:52.000 It's, well, you know, there's a bit of that, you know.

00:08:55.000 There is an acceptance that if a movie's good, the movie's good, and movies find their own way, usually in the end anyway.

00:09:02.000 But the financial aspect has become polarised.

00:09:07.000 It's too significant of a component in the equation, because it's an art form, right?

00:09:15.000 In the end of the day, it's entertainment and an art form, and somehow you want to unify, reconcile that, because they're essentially different.

00:09:26.000 Reconcile those, put it in a nice little package.

00:09:28.000 So you put in a pill with a sweet wrapper around it, and then you've got both.

00:09:35.000 And then you should be happy.

00:09:37.000 You should have the substance, and you should have the flavor.

00:09:42.000 But now the focus is all on the flavor and not on the substance, and that's result-orientated.

00:09:47.000 So your movie comes out, and they go, what'd it make?

00:09:50.000 It's like, slow down, son.

00:09:52.000 What's the movie like?

00:09:54.000 The question first of all should be, what's the movie like, rather than what did it make?

00:09:57.000 And it's just, it's become too competitive and too comparative financially.

00:10:02.000 And I love a dollar bill, and I like things that are successful.

00:10:05.000 But it has to be secondary to what's primary.

00:10:08.000 And primary is, what's it like creatively?

00:10:11.000 Well, a film like, not to shit on it, but Fast and the Furious, all I heard about was how much money it made.

00:10:18.000 That's all you hear.

00:10:19.000 It's like the big story.

00:10:20.000 The big Fast and the Furious opening box office, hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:10:23.000 All you see is like, it's going to make a billion dollars.

00:10:25.000 Why do you give a fuck?

00:10:26.000 Why does anybody who's watching that give a fuck?

00:10:28.000 You're not going to get any of that money.

00:10:30.000 Why is it so appealing that this movie has made a billion dollars?

00:10:33.000 Because it's comparative and it's competitive.

00:10:36.000 Yeah, but why to people in the audience?

00:10:39.000 Because it's voyeuristic.

00:10:43.000 It's like spectator sport.

00:10:45.000 Who's the winner?

00:10:47.000 Do you really care about how they won?

00:10:49.000 You just care about the fact that they did win.

00:10:52.000 Or like a Floyd Mayweather, you want to find out how much money he made.

00:10:55.000 He made $200 million in that fight.

00:10:57.000 People get excited about it.

00:10:58.000 It's an extra element.

00:11:00.000 Yeah.

00:11:01.000 There is a sort of vicarious life that people can have through sports stars, celebrities and success.

00:11:09.000 If they feel somehow related to, or they went on the opening weekend, or they are invested in, then if it's successful, then somehow, proliferately, I'm successful.

00:11:20.000 Yeah, that gets weird, right?

00:11:21.000 It does get weird, yeah.

00:11:23.000 The business of movies is a very, very strange business, because you're a creative business, but you're also a business enterprise.

00:11:30.000 I mean, you're a financial business.

00:11:32.000 And when it's a guy like you, your movies have a certain flavor.

00:11:37.000 You start off with Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

00:11:39.000 That movie has a flavor to it.

00:11:42.000 And then your other films, people want to go to see that kind of flavor from your films.

00:11:47.000 Do you feel pressure in that regard?

00:11:49.000 Like to live up to those expectations or to conform to these ideas that people have of your movies?

00:11:54.000 Yes and no.

00:11:56.000 Yes and no.

00:11:57.000 It depends what mood you catch me in.

00:11:59.000 Right.

00:12:00.000 I like what I do and I'm going to do it anyway.

00:12:03.000 I just like it very much when people pay me to do it and give me the money to go and do it.

00:12:07.000 So I don't mind the financial aspect of it.

00:12:11.000 I don't mind films having to compete.

00:12:14.000 What I'm after is a reconciliation.

00:12:17.000 And as I say, the primary component should be on the quality of the work.

00:12:21.000 That should be what's primary.

00:12:23.000 But I don't begrudge films being successful.

00:12:25.000 I like them to be successful.

00:12:26.000 I like the competitive element.

00:12:27.000 But sometimes when you're talking with executives, you realise, mate, your priorities are on the wrong thing here.

00:12:35.000 In the end, it is a creative medium, and that is what has to be primary.

00:12:39.000 Do they get in the way of a guy like you, though?

00:12:41.000 No.

00:12:41.000 I would imagine a guy like you, they give you a certain amount of leeway.

00:12:44.000 They give you all the leeway.

00:12:45.000 Oh, that's beautiful.

00:12:46.000 Yeah.

00:12:47.000 And my experience with studios is it'll be very positive.

00:12:49.000 And they try to encourage your...

00:12:53.000 Hopefully, what is your individual idiosyncrasies?

00:12:56.000 They want you to put your imprint upon the work.

00:13:00.000 And they've been nothing but encouraging in that sense.

00:13:03.000 But, you know, people betray their agendas whilst, you know, you're in light conversation.

00:13:07.000 Or they betray their priorities.

00:13:10.000 So you want to trust a man because he's a man of substance and to a degree independence.

00:13:17.000 So he's not looking to me to find himself through me.

00:13:23.000 So you're not asking me to tell you who you are.

00:13:25.000 And that's the ongoing battle of life, right?

00:13:28.000 We're all asking other people to tell us who we are.

00:13:30.000 Right.

00:13:31.000 And independence from that is a man that can be trusted.

00:13:35.000 I don't want anything from you.

00:13:36.000 And thereby, I can be kind to you because I don't need to manipulate you.

00:13:41.000 You're no longer a crutch.

00:13:43.000 Right.

00:13:44.000 So it's got to be very difficult when you're in business with someone like that, especially like an executive, some slick character in a fine suit, to find out exactly what his real motives really are.

00:13:53.000 They're never in fine suits.

00:13:55.000 Never?

00:13:55.000 Never.

00:13:56.000 How do they dress?

00:13:57.000 In appalling suits.

00:13:58.000 Really?

00:13:59.000 Yeah.

00:13:59.000 I mean, business does never encourage fine suits.

00:14:03.000 No pocket squares?

00:14:05.000 Occasionally you find a token pocket square, but you can tell their heart's not in it.

00:14:11.000 The wife stuck it in there because she saw someone on TV that had a bit of razzle-dazzle about them.

00:14:18.000 And they thought, oh, I quite fancy my old man wearing one of them.

00:14:21.000 And they sort of stick it in.

00:14:21.000 The old man's a bit embarrassed about it and tries to squeeze it out of the way.

00:14:26.000 Suits are a thing.

00:14:27.000 The death of the suit, it was the death of the suit, was the prosaic attitude toward, I'm going to work, and I've got to wear a suit.

00:14:36.000 Yeah.

00:14:36.000 I've got to put a tie on, and I don't want to stick out.

00:14:39.000 That's how I feel.

00:14:40.000 But that's what's happened.

00:14:42.000 We've been brainwashed.

00:14:43.000 To not dress like gentlemen.

00:14:45.000 But I see a guy like you and I say, that's appealing.

00:14:48.000 Like, look how you're dressed.

00:14:49.000 And you're in a conservative suit.

00:14:51.000 This is a nice suit.

00:14:52.000 Like, I'm sure you could wear any suit you wanted.

00:14:54.000 But you chose a shirt that has a certain look to it.

00:14:58.000 Yeah, I have spent some time arsing around with this, Joe.

00:15:01.000 But a bit like the same reason that we spent time arsing around with the old pocket square.

00:15:06.000 It's, I remember thinking how much I found the suit repugnant.

00:15:11.000 And I became angry that the suit had been robbed from us.

00:15:16.000 And so I had to create an alibi, a way in, to understand why it is that I'd like a suit.

00:15:24.000 This was the magic of Ralph Lauren.

00:15:26.000 The magic of Ralph Lauren, nice Jewish boy from New York called Lipschitz, created a waspy empire.

00:15:33.000 There's a wonderful expression that, you know, think Yiddish, dress British.

00:15:37.000 And Ralph Lauren created this great empire and resold the waspy world back to the waspy world.

00:15:44.000 Actually, not to the waspy world because in England there was a sort of resentment about Savile Row traditional tailoring because they'd been robbed from them.

00:15:54.000 The offices had come along.

00:15:56.000 The number crunchers had come along and there was no creativity in the suit.

00:16:01.000 A suit needs to be creative.

00:16:03.000 The person that puts it on can't be putting it on because he's told to put it on.

00:16:07.000 He's gotta wanna put it on.

00:16:10.000 So what Ralph did is he fashioned up this sort of quasi New England world and he took on a trope, he took on a cliché and he refashioned that cliché to give it a new sense of life, a new sense of breadth.

00:16:24.000 He put black people in the suits where traditionally it was just a white man's suit.

00:16:29.000 He made it feel new, he gave it a take.

00:16:31.000 So what he did is he tipped his hat at the old world but also tipped his hat at the new world.

00:16:36.000 And it allowed wasps to find their way back into the world with an eloquent narrative.

00:16:42.000 It was clever.

00:16:44.000 I'm getting fascinated by the way your brain works, because for you, it's important that the person want to wear the suit.

00:16:50.000 And I have a feeling that that's symbolic of how you feel about life itself.

00:16:55.000 Like, the person has to want to be doing what they're doing.

00:16:59.000 They have to want to wear that suit.

00:17:00.000 It has to be an authentic gesture.

00:17:04.000 Did you ever read a book called Extreme Ownership?

00:17:06.000 Written by a couple of Navy Seals.

00:17:08.000 That's Jocko Willink, right?

00:17:09.000 No.

00:17:10.000 I think it is.

00:17:11.000 Is it?

00:17:12.000 Is it Jocko's book?

00:17:12.000 Yeah.

00:17:13.000 Yeah, I've had Jocko on the show a bunch of times.

00:17:16.000 Important book.

00:17:16.000 Well, I've had him on once before.

00:17:18.000 What am I talking about?

00:17:19.000 A bunch of times.

00:17:19.000 Right.

00:17:20.000 I've had him once, but talked to him a lot.

00:17:21.000 But it's an important book.

00:17:22.000 Yes.

00:17:22.000 Now, there's lots of books that I've picked up on this theme, but they were very eloquent about it.

00:17:27.000 If you don't own something, you're not the boss.

00:17:31.000 You have to take full responsibility for everything that you do.

00:17:34.000 Why be subservient?

00:17:36.000 You must be the master of your own kingdom.

00:17:44.000 I feel you.

00:17:45.000 Makes a lot of sense.

00:17:46.000 You can't just walk into things with your eyes half open.

00:17:50.000 You've got to walk into things with your eyes fully open.

00:17:53.000 You've got to know what you're getting into.

00:17:54.000 You have to take possession of your life.

00:17:57.000 Is this a thought process that you have to constantly reaffirm?

00:18:00.000 Yes.

00:18:00.000 It's exactly that.

00:18:01.000 It's exactly that.

00:18:02.000 You drift on this point.

00:18:04.000 Right.

00:18:05.000 And it is whatever form of meditation or mantra that you decide to espouse.

00:18:11.000 There needs to be some period in your day where you remember that there's a world out there trying to tell you who you are and there's a world in here that's trying to tell you who you are.

00:18:25.000 Now where do you want to put your eggs?

00:18:27.000 Because the world outside is very noisy and very tempting and it has all the razzmatazz, it has all the tinsel and all the glitter.

00:18:35.000 It's got all the toys.

00:18:38.000 But that's because you don't think you're enough in the first place.

00:18:42.000 If you don't think you're enough in the first place, the whole idea of the world to sell you stuff is, first of all, they have to make you feel bad about yourself, less than in some way.

00:18:50.000 And I don't resent this system, by the way.

00:18:52.000 It is the system.

00:18:54.000 But what's the expression about don't hate the player, hate the game?

00:19:02.000 Don't hate the game.

00:19:03.000 Love the game because you're in it, mate.

00:19:06.000 So, own the game, accept the rules, and move on into the rules.

00:19:11.000 So the world will try and tell you who you are, and you have to tell yourself who you are.

00:19:16.000 And there's this ongoing battle.

00:19:17.000 And somehow, there needs to be a reconciliation between the two.

00:19:21.000 But in the end, you've got to have all the eggs in your basket.

00:19:25.000 There's also an ongoing internal battle, though, isn't there?

00:19:27.000 There's the you that you want people to think you are, and there's the you who you are, and trying to figure out, like, how do I figure out who I am?

00:19:37.000 Do I have a correct assumption of how the people are perceiving me, and how I actually am objectively, or am I bullshitting the world with this suit and pocket square?

00:19:49.000 Yeah, I would say it's exactly the scenario that we're talking about.

00:19:53.000 There's essentially only two worlds.

00:19:55.000 There's the inner world of energy and there's the outer world of energy.

00:19:58.000 There's two identities.

00:20:00.000 One's real, one's false.

00:20:01.000 The external world is I'm asking you to tell me who I am.

00:20:06.000 That's what we're all playing at.

00:20:08.000 And as soon as you start to play that game, we run into all sorts of trouble.

00:20:10.000 We call it the ego, call it whatever you want to call it.

00:20:12.000 But that's the dynamic that we're in.

00:20:14.000 And somehow we have to...

00:20:19.000 Give ourselves enough confidence to reassure ourselves that we are enough.

00:20:24.000 However, I enter the game because I've got to move on in the world.

00:20:27.000 I've got to crack on in the world.

00:20:28.000 And I know there's loads of temptations that come along the way.

00:20:31.000 So I will own the suit.

00:20:32.000 I'm going to wear the suit, but I'm going to own the suit.

00:20:35.000 Now, I don't mean by paying for it.

00:20:38.000 I mean by owning it.

00:20:40.000 It's now my suit.

00:20:41.000 It's my idea to put on this suit.

00:20:43.000 I have to personalize it in some way.

00:20:45.000 I have to understand a narrative that allows me to own that suit.

00:20:49.000 And thereby, I put on my suit of armor and I come out into the world.

00:20:52.000 And guess what?

00:20:53.000 I'm in a good time because I'm owning the suit.

00:20:56.000 Now, this is a very rock-solid philosophy.

00:20:59.000 Is this something you've ever written down?

00:21:02.000 It's what the essence of narrative.

00:21:04.000 I'm a storyteller.

00:21:06.000 The essence of narrative is only about this dynamic.

00:21:10.000 There is nothing else in a story other than this dynamic.

00:21:14.000 So the struggle between other people's perceptions and your own wants and desires and who you truly are, your significant real self.

00:21:27.000 That's it.

00:21:27.000 That's all there is.

00:21:28.000 You tell me a story that didn't, that we engaged in, that's famous, that's not about this journey.

00:21:34.000 I'll give you an example.

00:21:35.000 The prodigal son.

00:21:39.000 Parable, Christian, seems religious, doesn't really make much sense.

00:21:43.000 Do you know the story?

00:21:44.000 Sure, but why don't you lay it out?

00:21:46.000 So there's a father.

00:21:47.000 He has two sons, an older son and a younger son.

00:21:50.000 And he says to them, who wants to spend their inheritance?

00:21:53.000 The younger son says, me, Dad, I'll go and spend it.

00:21:56.000 And the younger son takes all the dough and he runs off and sniffs coke off stripper's tits for a number of years until he realises this is getting pretty boring and I'm in a lot of trouble.

00:22:08.000 He ends up feeding, throwing food to pigs.

00:22:12.000 That's his job.

00:22:14.000 And he can't even eat the food that he gives to the pigs, at which point he says, Dad, will you take me back?

00:22:22.000 Dad then goes to...

00:22:23.000 They don't meet.

00:22:24.000 This somehow happens, not through telephones, it just happens.

00:22:29.000 At which point, Dad goes to the fatted calf, says, kill the fatted calf.

00:22:33.000 Older son says, hold on, Dad, what's going on?

00:22:35.000 I've stayed with you since the beginning.

00:22:37.000 I've been loyal to you.

00:22:39.000 And I hear the stories of my younger brother coming back, who's been sniffing coke off strippers' tits for the last...

00:22:45.000 I don't know how many years.

00:22:46.000 And you're prepared to kill the fatted calf.

00:22:49.000 What's the SP, Dad?

00:22:50.000 I want to know the story.

00:22:52.000 He says, you're alright son, don't worry about that.

00:22:54.000 You take a little step to the side, you'll always be with me, you're a good boy.

00:22:58.000 At which point he goes out to meet the prodigal son, the wasteful son.

00:23:02.000 The wasteful son returns and he says, you were lost and now you're found.

00:23:08.000 That's the end of the story.

00:23:10.000 It's quite hard to make sense of that, in a literal sense.

00:23:13.000 You go, oh dad was a bit unfair, he should have been kind to the oldest son, because he never ran off and did anything.

00:23:20.000 But the essence of the story...

00:23:23.000 Is that you are the father.

00:23:27.000 You are enough.

00:23:29.000 Your older son is your intellect.

00:23:33.000 He says, oh, don't do this, don't do that.

00:23:34.000 He's trying to reconcile, make sense of a prosaic and material world.

00:23:39.000 The younger son, being the wild, feral entity that he is, wants to go out in the world and find out what it's all about.

00:23:49.000 So in his recklessness, and sense of adventure he finds that he can't escape himself so he has to return to himself and at which point he has to accept who he is which point the intellect is left out the equation pretty much as the older brother because he can't understand the significance of the journey of the wasteful brother in the end you have to leave yourself To

00:24:19.000 understand the value of yourself.

00:24:21.000 You have to lose stuff before you realise that all the stuff that you're losing is ephemeral and transitory.

00:24:27.000 It's not yours.

00:24:28.000 You're enough.

00:24:29.000 You're always enough.

00:24:30.000 But you've got to somehow prostitute yourself before you realise your own value.

00:24:35.000 That is the essence of all stories.

00:24:37.000 That's deep guy, Richie.

00:24:38.000 Is that something you think about all the time?

00:24:40.000 Or is this...

00:24:41.000 I mean, is this like a cemented philosophy?

00:24:44.000 So, King Arthur, the story you just made.

00:24:47.000 A man is a king, has a son.

00:24:50.000 The son, um...

00:24:53.000 The father runs into a bit of aggro.

00:24:55.000 The son jumps into a little boat, a little skillet.

00:25:00.000 Not skillet, that's what you cook your chops on, isn't it?

00:25:03.000 Yeah.

00:25:04.000 Skiff, a little skiff.

00:25:05.000 The skiff takes off down the river.

00:25:07.000 He gets found by prostitutes.

00:25:08.000 He's brought up in a brothel.

00:25:10.000 He understands the ways of the street.

00:25:12.000 He becomes a king on the street.

00:25:15.000 He works his way out the different ladders, and then he pulls a sword from a stone.

00:25:20.000 At a certain point in his life, a certain point of evolution, and then from there he goes on to be the king.

00:25:24.000 There's a bit of a tussle all along the way, lots of wrestling matches.

00:25:27.000 In the end he fights down his demons and he becomes the king.

00:25:30.000 So what's the significance of this narrative?

00:25:32.000 That every man in himself is aristocratic.

00:25:36.000 That he is his own king.

00:25:38.000 He takes the sojourn into the material world, has to climb up all the different runs on the ladder, and ultimately has to return to himself.

00:25:44.000 The significance of the extraction from the sword from the stone is the stone is the material world.

00:25:51.000 The material world, which seems all solid because it controls you, whilst you're projecting your sense of identity upon it, the extraction of the stone is taking back your own authority, your own power.

00:26:03.000 Divinity, your own authority, your own identity, whatever it is that you've got to call it, your own power.

00:26:07.000 You're no longer looking for a sense of self outside of yourself.

00:26:10.000 And then you have to face the demons that you've created in your history by facing them and fighting them and owning them.

00:26:18.000 You put them in the face of who you are.

00:26:20.000 And that's a wrestling match.

00:26:21.000 You have to take away all these crutches.

00:26:24.000 And that's all that we struggle from in life is taking away our crutches.

00:26:28.000 Oh, please tell me who I am.

00:26:30.000 Oh, please give me a bit more money so other people think I'm clever.

00:26:33.000 Oh, and then I'll have a nice car and people think I'm clever.

00:26:35.000 You've got to take away all these crutches and stand as the man that you are and you're liberated from your whole thing.

00:26:41.000 That is the story of King Arthur.

00:26:43.000 But it's not just the story of King Arthur, it's the story of all narrative.

00:26:46.000 Do you think that most people that are watching the film are going to get that, though?

00:26:49.000 They're just going to get an entertaining story.

00:26:51.000 They're just going to see a bunch of cool stuff, some drama play out.

00:26:54.000 But this is fascinating that you're operating so many levels underneath it.

00:26:57.000 Yeah, but I'm a storyteller.

00:26:58.000 It's my business.

00:26:59.000 So if I'm in the business of story, I might as well understand story.

00:27:02.000 And do you need to understand all that?

00:27:05.000 I'm not sure if you do.

00:27:06.000 It depends where you are on the ladder.

00:27:08.000 So you can just go along and have a nice bit of entertainment.

00:27:10.000 Good guy, bad guy.

00:27:11.000 Everything's literal.

00:27:12.000 There's nothing wrong with literalism.

00:27:14.000 It is what it is.

00:27:15.000 It's the game.

00:27:16.000 You can glean when you're ready to glean what you're ready to glean.

00:27:20.000 Are you a Joseph Campbell fan?

00:27:22.000 I am a Joseph Campbell fan, yeah.

00:27:24.000 Yeah, I mean, that's a reoccurring theme in his work.

00:27:28.000 The hero's journey.

00:27:28.000 Yes, the hero's journey.

00:27:30.000 This underlying sort of narrative that...

00:27:33.000 Just really guides all all stories and all ancient tales and that there's something inherently human about them important about these stories and they resonate with our wants and needs and goals and even also Maybe the structure that we really truly need in our own life Yeah,

00:27:50.000 I mean, all the stories from whatever period, I'm sympathetic to this particular, to Joseph Campbell's philosophy on this, but he's not the only one, right?

00:28:00.000 Right.

00:28:00.000 The weird thing about religion is religion has done to the spiritual significance of narrative what the businessman did to the suit.

00:28:12.000 He's literalized it.

00:28:14.000 He didn't realize that putting on a suit is putting on a suit of armor.

00:28:18.000 It's putting on something that's rather spectacular.

00:28:21.000 You're just doing it for convention.

00:28:23.000 You're doing it for others.

00:28:24.000 You're not doing it for you.

00:28:25.000 And in our literal mind, we look at a narrative and we see the narrative for what we believe it to be, the exterior aspect of the narrative.

00:28:36.000 So we completely, we see the world upside down.

00:28:40.000 We're not actually interested in the essence of the narrative because we're so busy pandering after the approval of others.

00:28:47.000 So everything that we see, every narrative that we listen to, every film that you see, you're not really interested in its soul.

00:28:56.000 You're interested in its body.

00:28:59.000 Because that's what we correspond to.

00:29:01.000 It's fascinating that you're comparing it to suits because it resonates like when you think of a guy showing up for work or getting ready for work and he doesn't want to go and he's putting on the suit and it's just dredging through it and putting it on and or you think about a guy who's crisply tucking in his collars and putting on his cufflinks and Tightening up his tie and he feels empowered by the whole process of it.

00:29:25.000 It's very it's very appealing Like, if you see it in a film, too, it's very exciting.

00:29:30.000 This is a man of purpose.

00:29:31.000 They did it in Mean Streets.

00:29:32.000 I don't know if you remember.

00:29:33.000 Harvey Keitel getting dressed to go out on a Friday night and it affected a whole generation of people about the way they dress because he owned it.

00:29:41.000 Yeah.

00:29:42.000 Yeah, I never really thought about that until this conversation.

00:29:46.000 It's not because I just I don't really wear suits occasionally like very very occasionally.

00:29:51.000 But you've been robbed.

00:29:52.000 I've been robbed.

00:29:53.000 You've been robbed.

00:29:53.000 There are so many aspects of life food for a long time got robbed from us and we've slowly managed to claw that back.

00:30:01.000 It's true.

00:30:02.000 But clothes, really?

00:30:04.000 You're a 45 year old geezer and you're still dressing like an 18 year old?

00:30:09.000 What a cuss is all that about?

00:30:11.000 Well, some people like to be comfortable, though.

00:30:13.000 I get that, by the way.

00:30:14.000 And they like that look.

00:30:16.000 Comfortable.

00:30:17.000 Your suit's comfortable?

00:30:17.000 It's comfortable.

00:30:18.000 Yeah.

00:30:19.000 You can get poured into this, completely deconstructed on the inside, made by a chap called Brunello.

00:30:23.000 Knows what he's doing.

00:30:25.000 So these are all handmade?

00:30:27.000 It won't be handmade.

00:30:28.000 Tailored?

00:30:29.000 No, I bought this off the shelf.

00:30:31.000 Really?

00:30:32.000 Yeah, a couple of things tweaked.

00:30:33.000 But it's as comfortable as a pair of pajamas.

00:30:37.000 Really?

00:30:37.000 Yeah.

00:30:38.000 See, again, you have to broker a deal.

00:30:39.000 You can't put on things that are uncomfortable because guess what happens in the morning?

00:30:43.000 You're looking through your suits.

00:30:44.000 You go, oh, I like that one, but I'm not going to wear it.

00:30:45.000 I'm going to wear the comfortable one.

00:30:46.000 Oh, so they all have to be comfortable.

00:30:49.000 Well, otherwise you're not going to play the game, are you?

00:30:51.000 I have a thing about ties, though.

00:30:53.000 Go on.

00:30:54.000 I'd kill someone with a tie on.

00:30:55.000 For sure.

00:30:56.000 You can kill someone with a tie on.

00:30:57.000 100%.

00:30:57.000 If I get a hold of that tie, you're dead.

00:31:01.000 Joe, this conversation needs to go on for longer than it's gonna go on.

00:31:06.000 That's the thing about ties.

00:31:08.000 You're wearing a rope around your neck.

00:31:09.000 If someone just gets a deep grab...

00:31:12.000 Joe, what are you thinking about?

00:31:13.000 A twist?

00:31:14.000 I'm not going to have a fight with anyone whilst I'm wearing a tie.

00:31:16.000 I'm sure you're not, but you would have to, in a deep disagreement, you'd have to wrestle that sucker loose and take it off to be safe.

00:31:25.000 I'm not going to indulge this.

00:31:27.000 You shouldn't.

00:31:28.000 You shouldn't.

00:31:28.000 It's my own personal problem.

00:31:30.000 I just feel like someone with a tie on, all you have to do is grab that thing.

00:31:34.000 And that's a wrap.

00:31:35.000 Like, if you went into a jiu-jitsu match and you had a rope around your neck, you're a jiu-jitsu practitioner, right?

00:31:40.000 I am, yeah.

00:31:40.000 So, I'm sure you've been collar choked then.

00:31:44.000 Yeah.

00:31:45.000 Yeah, I've been fighting for 20 years, Joe.

00:31:47.000 A bit more than 20 years.

00:31:48.000 This thing around your neck.

00:31:50.000 Really?

00:31:51.000 By the way, my game is I'm all about the gi.

00:31:55.000 Are you?

00:31:56.000 Yeah, I've played a lot of no gi, but I've come back to the gi.

00:31:59.000 And the reason I've come back to the gi is I'm quite tasty with the gi.

00:32:04.000 Quite tasty?

00:32:05.000 Quite tasty with the gi.

00:32:06.000 There's a couple of moves I'd like to show you.

00:32:08.000 It's a bit tricky with your t-shirt, but...

00:32:13.000 I'm all about strangling a man with his gi, which somehow elegantly segues from the tie.

00:32:21.000 I mean, I'm all about creating what I call the hangman's rope out of the bottom of your gi and turning that into a thing.

00:32:27.000 So you're one of those guys that pulls the bottom of the gi and wraps up...

00:32:30.000 I'm that guy.

00:32:31.000 I'm out there.

00:32:33.000 And I played this game for a long time, which is the wrapping around the wrist.

00:32:37.000 Or, you know, so you get that little dinosaur flippy thing there, so your arm's out of action.

00:32:44.000 But then I discovered something, Joe.

00:32:45.000 If you slip that gi in through there...

00:32:48.000 So what he's doing for people just listening, he's tucking it towards his...

00:32:52.000 On the inside.

00:32:53.000 The inside crock of his elbow.

00:32:54.000 And once it comes in on the inside, you can't get that hand out again.

00:32:59.000 That's it.

00:32:59.000 Basically, the fight's over from there.

00:33:01.000 The fight's over.

00:33:03.000 From there.

00:33:03.000 Because from then on, you own that arm.

00:33:06.000 Hmm.

00:33:07.000 It's interesting.

00:33:08.000 We should have a little roll around at the end of this, Joe.

00:33:09.000 How long have you been training now?

00:33:10.000 20 years?

00:33:11.000 What belt do you have?

00:33:12.000 20 years.

00:33:13.000 Black belt.

00:33:13.000 From Henzo.

00:33:14.000 Oh, that's legit, man.

00:33:16.000 That's seriously legit.

00:33:17.000 Do you think most people know that?

00:33:19.000 Do they?

00:33:19.000 You've managed to keep that on the DL a little bit.

00:33:22.000 Not so much.

00:33:23.000 Not so much?

00:33:24.000 No?

00:33:25.000 Well, I think if you ask the average person in the street, is Guy Ritchie a black belt in jiu-jitsu, they'd go, no, is he?

00:33:30.000 But does the average man in the street know what a black belt in jiu-jitsu is anyway?

00:33:34.000 I think they do now more than ever.

00:33:36.000 Yeah, probably more now.

00:33:37.000 Well, that's why when I see a guy as experienced as you wearing a tie, I go, hmm...

00:33:42.000 Maybe you're just super confident about no one being able to get to that tie.

00:33:45.000 Joe, what's going on?

00:33:47.000 Well, I'm a ridiculous person.

00:33:48.000 That's what's going on.

00:33:49.000 I mean, you have your own ridiculous ideas about owning suits.

00:33:52.000 I have my ideas about getting choked to death wearing a tie.

00:33:56.000 Like I said, I'm not going to indulge it.

00:33:59.000 You're fishing.

00:34:00.000 I'm not fishing.

00:34:02.000 Honestly, I really do have an issue with ties.

00:34:05.000 Okay.

00:34:06.000 But it looks wonderful on you.

00:34:07.000 Thank you very much.

00:34:08.000 I mean, for real, it's a very elegant appearance, the whole thing, from the top to the bottom.

00:34:12.000 When did you start training?

00:34:13.000 Under who?

00:34:14.000 Where were you?

00:34:16.000 First of all, I did karate for 15 years.

00:34:19.000 I did Shotokan karate, which I was obsessed with.

00:34:21.000 Got a second down in that.

00:34:22.000 And then ACL went twice on the right leg.

00:34:26.000 And I watched Choke.

00:34:27.000 Can you remember Choke?

00:34:28.000 Sure.

00:34:29.000 And I watched Choke and that was a revelation because old man...

00:34:34.000 What was his name?

00:34:35.000 Julio?

00:34:36.000 Elio.

00:34:37.000 Elio.

00:34:38.000 Old man Elio was on the mat at 84 in that video.

00:34:41.000 And I thought, well, I'm not getting any younger.

00:34:46.000 And if I'm going to take up a martial art, I love fighting, so I'm very happy to talk about fighting for a long time, Joe.

00:34:52.000 I fancied the idea that I'd be...

00:34:54.000 Because if I stayed with karate, I realized I would not be on the mat at 84. So...

00:34:59.000 And back then, there was no jiu-jitsu in London.

00:35:02.000 There was judo.

00:35:03.000 And they had what was called nawaza, which is the ground game.

00:35:07.000 And they're pretty tasty.

00:35:07.000 We got some good judo players...

00:35:10.000 So I went from karate to judo but I was only interested in the ground game and then Roger Gracie came to live in the UK about 20 years ago and Roger Gracie went on to become the world champion eight times and I started taking lessons with him and his dad Mauricio.

00:35:28.000 Then I ended up in New York for I think I lived in New York for a while with my ex-wife.

00:35:35.000 And I went to Henzo's gym when it was above a methadone clinic.

00:35:41.000 And I fell in love with Henzo.

00:35:43.000 And I fell in love with jiu-jitsu in a sort of serious way.

00:35:46.000 And I became obsessed with it for a number of years.

00:35:49.000 Henzo gave me all my belts.

00:35:53.000 I mean, I should have got a black belt.

00:35:54.000 Well, I say I should have got a black belt.

00:35:57.000 I became lazy to a degree.

00:35:59.000 So I got a black belt when I should have got a black belt.

00:36:01.000 And as you and I know, there's some tasty blue belts out there that can have a lot of fun with me.

00:36:07.000 But I sort of drifted a bit.

00:36:09.000 I came in and out, sustained a few injuries.

00:36:12.000 But if I was training hard, I think you train hard, you get black belt in five years, can't you?

00:36:17.000 You've got to be obsessed.

00:36:18.000 Yeah, but there are kids that are.

00:36:20.000 There are kids that are.

00:36:20.000 Yeah, you can.

00:36:21.000 I mean, I was a brown belt for eight years.

00:36:24.000 So you're talking to the wrong person.

00:36:25.000 No, no, no.

00:36:25.000 I'm the same as you.

00:36:26.000 I was a brown belt for eight years.

00:36:27.000 I think if you're a real fanatic, you could get it in five years.

00:36:32.000 But it's super rare.

00:36:33.000 Like BJ Penn got it in three.

00:36:35.000 It's almost unheard of.

00:36:36.000 There's a few people that have done that.

00:36:38.000 Yeah, there's some guys in our gym in London in Rogers Place that they're there five days a week, three hours a day.

00:36:44.000 They mean it.

00:36:45.000 And within six months, they're a proper pain in the ass.

00:36:49.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:36:50.000 Well, once you become obsessed with the movements and you start studying the various positions and the possibilities, it becomes a part of your life.

00:36:56.000 It becomes a part of your, almost like your operating system.

00:37:00.000 And as you see these guys reinforce that operating system, you see their game becoming more and more complex and to be able to chain attack after attack and being able to anticipate the defenses of those attacks and plan two and three steps ahead and you see all this play out.

00:37:14.000 It's an amazing, I really, really enjoy watching someone go from being a beginning student It's a fascinating process because you're literally watching someone develop their comprehension of a language of fighting and that language of fighting is analogous to life.

00:37:30.000 It helps them in every single aspect of their life because it's one of the most difficult things that a person will do in their day.

00:37:36.000 You walk into a jiu-jitsu school, you park your car, You live in this normal realm of normal people with normal problems and bills and stresses and issues.

00:37:46.000 But once you go into that thing, you put on that gi or no gi or whatever you're doing and you go into that class.

00:37:51.000 Once you engage in these sparring sessions, these sparring sessions with Skilled practitioners you're doing one of the most difficult things any person within a hundred mile radius of you that's not fighting for their life is doing and by doing that on a regular basis and Constantly reinforcing this language it enhances the all your possibilities and your potential possibilities as a person Very eloquent.

00:38:18.000 I mean, I couldn't agree with you more.

00:38:20.000 One of the great things I found about jiu-jitsu is whenever I came to a city, we'd just tap into a computer where the next gym was, and we'd roll down there.

00:38:29.000 I'm usually with two or three people.

00:38:31.000 Ivan out there, he's also a black belt.

00:38:34.000 I got a chap that I was with called Bobby the Tits, who is an Olympic judo player.

00:38:39.000 Fucking, you should see the chest on this geezer.

00:38:41.000 He is a beast.

00:38:42.000 That's why he's Bobby the Tits.

00:38:43.000 Bobby the Tits.

00:38:46.000 So, across between Ivan the Terrible and Bobby the Tits, we used to hit these gyms and...

00:38:52.000 Everyone.

00:38:53.000 There's a complete substructure there.

00:38:55.000 If you want to be looked after, they'll give you a gaffe.

00:38:57.000 Hello, mate.

00:38:58.000 How's it going?

00:38:58.000 And there's the brotherhood.

00:38:59.000 I suppose it's probably the same for people who go to church.

00:39:01.000 I don't know.

00:39:02.000 But there is a brotherhood that I found amongst fighters where everyone's like game and friendly, come around at the barbecue.

00:39:08.000 There's a whole substructure there that everyone will look after everyone else.

00:39:12.000 And I've never in the 20 years of fighting in different gyms have I lost my temper.

00:39:18.000 Or I had a reason to lose my temper.

00:39:20.000 Has anyone ever been a bully?

00:39:22.000 You've had people a bit clumsy, got a bit carried away, but there's such a system of accountancy that you can't get away with being a bully because there's always a bigger bully and you know you're going to get found out and I like that aspect of it.

00:39:34.000 Everyone gets found out.

00:39:37.000 Yeah, especially over time, right?

00:39:39.000 I mean, if you're training consistently with really difficult training partners, your character is going to be tested.

00:39:45.000 There's just no way around it.

00:39:46.000 There's no way around it.

00:39:47.000 And sometimes I end up training quite a lot at home, right?

00:39:51.000 I've got five, six mates to come around there.

00:39:52.000 It's not the same as going to a new gym with new players.

00:39:56.000 Right.

00:39:57.000 And you've got to get out there.

00:39:58.000 I know a few rich guys that have got trainers, and they're not bad players, you know?

00:40:02.000 The trainers are good, and the fighters are good.

00:40:06.000 But because they don't get outside of their comfort zone and go to a feral gym, a gym on the street, it's very hard for them to really evolve.

00:40:17.000 You've got to keep putting yourself in an uncomfortable spot, in uncomfortable gyms.

00:40:21.000 And like as you said, when you do that though, you do see kind of the same thing over and over again.

00:40:27.000 The same type of human.

00:40:29.000 You know, you just see them in London or you see them in New York or in Los Angeles.

00:40:33.000 You see that same type of human.

00:40:35.000 It's the great thing about a sport in general, but let's be specific because it's something that you and I can relate to, is there are no barriers in jiu-jitsu.

00:40:43.000 No one's looking at you.

00:40:45.000 If you're rich, you're poor, you're black, you're white.

00:40:46.000 It's completely irrelevant.

00:40:48.000 You come to the mat and if you get on with the geezer that you're fighting, you get on with the geezer that you're fighting.

00:40:52.000 And there's a complete clarity of vision when you're fighting someone.

00:40:56.000 It's just you're fighting them and you rate them on their ability of how they fight.

00:40:59.000 Yeah, and you carry that social hierarchy, like what's important in that school is that.

00:41:06.000 It is like who is proficient, who's very good.

00:41:09.000 That's the...

00:41:10.000 That's the currency.

00:41:11.000 Yeah, the ultimate currency.

00:41:13.000 Yeah, I had a name when I used to train out here or in New York.

00:41:17.000 They used to call me Hollywood because I was like the only celebrity kind of person that used to come in and say, oh, Hollywood, you fancy little roll around this, that, you know.

00:41:25.000 But that, you know, and a couple of people initially went, oh, you're that geezer.

00:41:29.000 That lasted all of 30 seconds.

00:41:31.000 Right.

00:41:31.000 Yeah.

00:41:32.000 And then everything gets wiped.

00:41:34.000 You have no currency on the mat other than your currency on the mat.

00:41:38.000 Right.

00:41:38.000 And there's a wonderful clarity in that.

00:41:40.000 Yeah, for a guy like you or any big-time celebrity, that's probably one of the only few places where you really, truly experience that.

00:41:47.000 Like, there's no bullshit in that role.

00:41:50.000 Like, when someone's going after you and you're going after them, it's 100%.

00:41:53.000 It is what it is.

00:41:54.000 There's all the bullshit veil of society has been removed.

00:41:59.000 Yeah.

00:42:00.000 I mean, I'll muddy the water a bit now.

00:42:04.000 So, harking back to what we were talking about previously, I'm aware that you become less adventurous...

00:42:13.000 As your ego grows in jiu-jitsu, right?

00:42:16.000 Particularly for the guy that doesn't tap.

00:42:18.000 If you're the guy that doesn't tap, you don't ever want to be the guy that doesn't tap.

00:42:21.000 And you hunker up and you become a boring fighter.

00:42:25.000 And it's an issue.

00:42:26.000 You know those guys.

00:42:27.000 There's a couple of guys that I can think of one in particular.

00:42:30.000 That if you get the better of him, and by and large he's a better fighter than me, but all of a sudden he realizes he's in trouble.

00:42:36.000 Just before I'm about to tap him, he goes, oh, stop there.

00:42:39.000 One second, guy.

00:42:40.000 If you just moved a little bit to the road...

00:42:42.000 Oh, it gives you instruction.

00:42:43.000 Those guys are the worst.

00:42:44.000 That's their alibi to get out them losing face.

00:42:47.000 So what face is it they're losing?

00:42:49.000 It's the crutch that they actually think that being a jiu-jitsu player has an identity in itself, and it doesn't.

00:42:57.000 You cannot use it as a crutch.

00:42:59.000 And it's the essence of all martial arts.

00:43:01.000 Martial arts was about find yourself within that framework and be honest about it and you meet the opponent and as your man Connor will tell you, you're finding it's about you fighting you in the ring.

00:43:16.000 What your other part of the mind, the other part of the mind that we were talking about wants to say is about your reputation in the gym and what people think of you.

00:43:24.000 So again, you're trying to find an identity from outside of yourself by not tapping.

00:43:29.000 And you know that feeling.

00:43:30.000 And by the way, I suffer it myself because I don't like to tap either.

00:43:33.000 But it makes my game, it inhibits my game and it stops me being creative.

00:43:38.000 Yeah, Marcelo Garcia has always been very adamant about that, that you have to open up your game in the gym, and it's the only way to really truly progress.

00:43:44.000 And don't worry about being tapped, and don't have that ego.

00:43:47.000 And there's a great video of him and Damien Maia rolling, and they're rolling, they have like, they're putting almost no, like, kinetic strength, no explosive energy, nothing athletic.

00:43:59.000 They're just going through the movements and exchanging positions, and they're tapping each other, left and right, left and right, with no ego.

00:44:06.000 It's really interesting to watch.

00:44:08.000 Because you see like Marcelo catch Damien and they roll to a position and Damien taps and then they go to another position and Marcelo does it and it's just, it's really fascinating because what they're doing, they're truly flowing.

00:44:19.000 There's no like real, oh here we go right there, you can see them do it.

00:44:23.000 But when these guys do it, as they're doing it, they're obviously using strength and they're countering with skill, but everything is very smooth and controlled.

00:44:33.000 And you're looking at two of the very best black belts to ever do it.

00:44:37.000 You're looking at Damian Maia, who right now is...

00:44:40.000 Arguably the top contender in the UFC's welterweight division He's gonna be fighting Jorge Masvidal next weekend actually which is a really intense fight because Masvidal is a killer and then Marcelo Garcia who's probably one of the all-time great strangulation experts has ever walked the face of the planet I mean he's really revolutionized a lot of aspects of the guillotine the rear naked choke and I was in Brazil in Sao Paulo in 2003 when he burst onto the scene when he choked out Shaolin And

00:45:11.000 to see these two guys rolling together is really, really interesting because this is really kind of how you have to do it.

00:45:16.000 You just do it.

00:45:18.000 No one is saying, I can't tap, I can't put myself in a bad position.

00:45:24.000 They're exchanging positions.

00:45:26.000 Like right there, when Damien gets underhooks and he goes for the deep half, Marcel is just rolling with it.

00:45:31.000 They're just flowing.

00:45:32.000 Yeah, but you need two to tango, don't you?

00:45:34.000 You can't have one with an ego who's not going to play the game and bunkers down and screws himself down.

00:45:39.000 It makes the whole thing very hard to do.

00:45:41.000 You've both got to be complicit.

00:45:43.000 Yep.

00:45:43.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:45:45.000 Yeah, it's very interesting watching two really, really high-level guys like this role.

00:45:50.000 Or like, you know, Hadra Gracie and Braulio Estima or something like that.

00:45:56.000 England's got a great scene.

00:45:57.000 There's so much top-level jiu-jitsu over in England right now.

00:46:01.000 Yeah, it's got some good players, yeah.

00:46:02.000 There used to be a time, just a couple of decades ago, where if you wanted to train, it was very difficult to find really proficient instruction and great training partners.

00:46:11.000 20 years ago, it wasn't possible.

00:46:13.000 I remember because I was first into it when we made Snatch, which is 18 years ago, and that's when Hodger first came to town, and before then it was just Judo, just Nawazza.

00:46:22.000 Yeah.

00:46:23.000 Well, I mean, you can certainly get something out of that.

00:46:25.000 But it seems like the level of attack...

00:46:31.000 I mean, there's some people that have just one rock-solid attack, like Ronda Rousey had that rock-solid attack with the armbar.

00:46:36.000 And she comes from that judo background.

00:46:38.000 That's annoying armbar.

00:46:39.000 Oh, it's nasty.

00:46:41.000 Her armbar to this day, I believe, is one of the best armbars I've ever seen in MMA. Not just because she was successful with it, but when you watch her transitions, you watch how she's able to adjust and change things.

00:46:52.000 Like the Kat Zingano fight is a perfect example of that.

00:46:55.000 Kat Zingano just charges at her like a fucking bat out of hell, and they have this mad scramble, and Ronda realizes a position that she doesn't even utilize.

00:47:03.000 But she understands the arm bar so well.

00:47:06.000 She knows, well, I could just throw my hip over this way and kick back here and I'll catch that arm bar.

00:47:11.000 This overall understanding of the position is so high level.

00:47:16.000 Yeah.

00:47:17.000 When someone has a move like that, I used to fight a bit with Hickson.

00:47:23.000 And Hickson used to do that thing where he ties his hands behind his back and you've got to try and do something to him.

00:47:28.000 Right.

00:47:28.000 And you can't do anything to him.

00:47:30.000 The level of sophistication when it's like that, he was so technical, Hickson, that it was what I understand about Jiu Jitsu is really rather primitive.

00:47:46.000 But I'm aware I'm primitive.

00:47:48.000 I'm aware that my understanding of jiu-jitsu is really quite primitive.

00:47:53.000 And then when you see something like that armbar come sneaking out of nowhere, oh, it's a magnificent thing to behold, isn't it?

00:48:01.000 Yeah.

00:48:02.000 Yeah.

00:48:03.000 And what you're saying is kind of interesting because some listen to this and go, how is a black belt primitive?

00:48:08.000 Like, you're not primitive.

00:48:09.000 You're an expert.

00:48:10.000 But I understand totally because I'm also primitive.

00:48:13.000 I know.

00:48:14.000 I know what I know.

00:48:15.000 Like, I understand, like, there's...

00:48:17.000 What Hickson's language is, is a series of words that you've never heard before, spoken perfectly in the right order, with no pauses or ums or no filler, and the way he flows with it.

00:48:30.000 It's just, he's got a level of proficiency that very few, other than Marcelo and Damien Maia, can really appreciate the true beauty of it all.

00:48:39.000 Because they just don't, like, I won't see things coming.

00:48:44.000 They're too complex.

00:48:45.000 It's a completely different language.

00:48:46.000 Yeah.

00:48:47.000 But you know enough.

00:48:49.000 I read a good line somewhere the other day that someone had enough brains to know that they didn't have any brains.

00:48:57.000 So you know enough to know that you're in treacherous and deep waters here.

00:49:01.000 Yeah.

00:49:02.000 Otherwise, your average geezer that starts rolling around with one of these good guys says, oh, you know, he's all right, but oh, there's Joe or Guy.

00:49:10.000 They'll be the same.

00:49:11.000 They've got the same color belt on it.

00:49:12.000 Let's have a go with that.

00:49:13.000 Yeah, you just get manhandled.

00:49:17.000 Now, you said you had your knee fixed.

00:49:20.000 Would you blow out an ACL? ACL, I've done it twice, yeah.

00:49:24.000 Did you get cadaver replacement?

00:49:26.000 No, hamstring and then patella.

00:49:29.000 Hamstring first time, patella second time.

00:49:30.000 And the hamstring blew out, right?

00:49:32.000 Yeah.

00:49:32.000 Those things blow out a lot.

00:49:34.000 Yeah, eventually it gave in.

00:49:35.000 I had the first one done, I was about 21. Okay.

00:49:37.000 And the second one done was about 31, and now it's held together, but the old knee's a bit knackered.

00:49:40.000 Do you know about a stem cell?

00:49:42.000 Yeah.

00:49:42.000 How are you feeling about a stem cell?

00:49:43.000 Great.

00:49:44.000 I was that close to shoulder surgery, and I had some placental stem cells shot into my shoulder, and it's amazing.

00:49:50.000 And where did you have that done?

00:49:52.000 Vegas.

00:49:53.000 Really?

00:49:53.000 Yeah, there's a guy named Dr. Roddy McGee who's at the tip of the spear when it comes to the technology that's involved today.

00:49:59.000 What was the issue of the shoulder?

00:50:00.000 A bunch of tears, just stuff.

00:50:02.000 Just years and years of abuse.

00:50:04.000 Yeah, my cartilage has gone on that shoulder and now my cartilage has gone on the knee.

00:50:08.000 And I didn't really know anything about stem cell about two weeks ago.

00:50:11.000 And now that's all I'm hearing about.

00:50:12.000 Well, I have a podcast I'll send you and it was with me and Dr. Rod McGee that we did about a month ago.

00:50:18.000 Fabulous.

00:50:19.000 He's amazing.

00:50:20.000 And again, he's well up to date with the latest technology and he's also very conservative in his approach to it.

00:50:28.000 What he's saying is that they are able to regenerate cartilage and meniscus tissue.

00:50:33.000 And this is the first time anything has ever come along that actually regenerates these tissue.

00:50:37.000 They've been able to trim it and do things to it to mitigate pain, but now they can literally regenerate tissue.

00:50:43.000 They're even injecting it into people's discs now, the discs in their spine, and they're showing that they can regrow disc tissue.

00:50:50.000 Yeah, but you've just mailed my three issues, disc issue and cartilage.

00:50:56.000 Yeah.

00:50:56.000 That's all my issue is.

00:50:57.000 Of course.

00:50:58.000 Meniscus and cartilage and disc.

00:51:01.000 What do you got going on with your back?

00:51:02.000 Everybody's got something.

00:51:03.000 Yeah, it's the traditional issue with those three C whatever that calls at the bottom of the back.

00:51:09.000 I'm going to show you something else that you're going to need and you're going to get after we have this conversation.

00:51:13.000 I have a machine out back called the Reverse Hyper.

00:51:16.000 And it was created by this mad genius named Louie Simmons.

00:51:19.000 And with the reverse hyper is a machine that decompresses your back and also strengthens it at the same time.

00:51:25.000 It decompresses it on the downswing, and then on the upswing, it strengthens all those muscles around it.

00:51:32.000 But it literally pulls the back apart, and it compress discs, which is bad posture, load, degeneration.

00:51:40.000 And you can look up at the screen.

00:51:41.000 This guy's...

00:51:43.000 Fucking crazy.

00:51:44.000 He's one of the craziest people I've ever interviewed.

00:51:45.000 He was hilarious, but he's a old-time power lifter, has been doing it forever.

00:51:50.000 I mean, he's got fake shoulders, fake knees, everything's blown out.

00:51:53.000 He has no biceps.

00:51:55.000 His biceps are completely severed off of his arm.

00:51:57.000 What was he saying?

00:52:00.000 His friends were making a max out bench like five days after his shoulder replacement.

00:52:04.000 He's a fucking maniac.

00:52:05.000 But they were trying to fuse his discs.

00:52:07.000 And so he came up with this machine.

00:52:09.000 And you see as it swings down, when she's swinging down, it's pulling her back apart.

00:52:15.000 Here you go.

00:52:16.000 When it's going down, it's pulling the back.

00:52:19.000 An active decompression.

00:52:20.000 And as she's swinging up, she's strengthening all those muscles in the spine in a real weird way where you really can't get at them with So this is the issue, because you can do the...

00:52:31.000 Superficially, I'm strong there, but the core underneath the superficial muscles.

00:52:36.000 And when I had the MRI, you could see all the fat in the surrounding muscle around the discs, and you could see the fat in it.

00:52:45.000 And then as soon as you hit the superficial, you went, oh, that's fine.

00:52:48.000 There's nothing wrong with the superficial.

00:52:50.000 So I need a way like this...

00:52:53.000 Just buy one of those, man.

00:52:55.000 Where you have to beast through your superficial muscles to get to your core muscles.

00:53:00.000 Well, it forces that area of the body to work.

00:53:04.000 You're sustaining a load, and you lift it up, and you hold it in that position.

00:53:09.000 And then as you let it go, it's decompressing.

00:53:11.000 And in the decompress cycle, you're feeling your muscles relax, and you can actually feel it pulling.

00:53:18.000 You feel in the lower back in a weird way.

00:53:21.000 You feel it kind of pulling and separating, and then a couple of seconds later, you're strengthening it again.

00:53:25.000 And then you're pulling and separating, and you're strengthening it again.

00:53:28.000 And then I have another thing out back that I bend over from the waist on, and it allows my lower back to just completely relax.

00:53:36.000 My upper body pulls down on my lower body, and it separates and decompresses the lower spine.

00:53:42.000 I mean, it's been tremendous, a huge, huge asset.

00:53:45.000 But there's a bunch of things they can do now.

00:53:47.000 Have you heard of Regenikine?

00:53:48.000 Do you know what that is?

00:53:49.000 No.

00:53:50.000 Regenikine is something that was developed in Germany that a lot of professional athletes like Kobe Bryant, Peyton Manning, they went over there, and it's a blood-spinning procedure, similar to platelet-rich plasma, but they take The blood, and as they're spinning it, they heat it up.

00:54:04.000 And when they heat it up, the blood has a reaction to the extreme heat, like it thinks you have a fever, so it produces this very intense anti-inflammatory response.

00:54:15.000 Obviously, if you're a scientist or a doctor, I'm butchering this.

00:54:18.000 And they take this yellow serum, which is this anti-inflammatory response, and they can inject it into all these areas that you have massive inflammation, like bulging discs.

00:54:27.000 And it has an incredible effect.

00:54:29.000 It had an incredible effect for Peyton Manning, allowed him to get back to football again.

00:54:32.000 I had a bulging disc that was making my hands go numb, totally went away, through decompression and through this kind of stuff.

00:54:39.000 Yeah, I heard this added 10 years to Kobe's career.

00:54:42.000 Am I right in thinking that?

00:54:43.000 Yeah, that's what he thinks.

00:54:45.000 Up until I'm 48, how old are you, Joe?

00:54:48.000 49. Almost 50. So, I didn't think about any of these things until this year.

00:54:53.000 So, I accepted an ACL as a bit of a nuisance.

00:54:57.000 I accepted I got a bit of a creaky back.

00:54:59.000 But in the last month, I went to...

00:55:04.000 Something happened to my knee.

00:55:06.000 And I went to the doctor, a little x-ray, and he went, well, I could operate for the 10th time I've had an operation on that knee.

00:55:17.000 But you're better off now waiting.

00:55:19.000 Waiting for what?

00:55:21.000 Until I give you a new one?

00:55:23.000 Fucking hell.

00:55:24.000 So he's talking about a replacement?

00:55:26.000 So he's talking about replacement.

00:55:27.000 Now he's saying to just hold on, right?

00:55:29.000 So he's saying in 15 years from now or whatever it is.

00:55:32.000 But it all changed.

00:55:34.000 And then a month after I went and had the shoulder x-rayed.

00:55:37.000 And he looked at it and went, well, I could operate that.

00:55:41.000 And I knew where we were going here.

00:55:43.000 You're better off waiting until I give you a new one.

00:55:45.000 I'm now that geezer where they're not talking about fixing, they're talking about giving me new ones.

00:55:50.000 Right.

00:55:50.000 Now I hadn't, so, you know, Ivan out there knows exactly what you're talking about.

00:55:55.000 To me, there really wasn't a vessel to receive this information.

00:55:59.000 Now, in the last month, I am ready to receive this information.

00:56:03.000 So in the next three months, I will know what you talk about.

00:56:09.000 I immediately am going to connect you with Dr. Rodney McGee.

00:56:11.000 As soon as we get off the phone or off the podcast here, I'm going to connect you with him.

00:56:15.000 And he'll be able to...

00:56:16.000 Keep you abreast of all the stuff, and it changes constantly.

00:56:20.000 Like when I first went, I first got a shot in July of last year, and I was that close to surgery.

00:56:27.000 I was trying to figure out, okay, I was planning my time.

00:56:29.000 I was saying, okay, if I get the surgery, I essentially can't use this arm for at least a few weeks, and it's going to be pretty weak for at least three months.

00:56:37.000 I was really accepting that and he said well, let's just give this a shot and Within a couple of weeks of getting the shot.

00:56:44.000 I was like goddamn this thing feels better than it's ever felt before and so through a series of exercises like a lot of rotator cuff strengthening exercises and Bottoms up kettlebells like where you you have to stabilize those ones those are those are fantastic for stabilization muscles and And then it also made me realize that if you're going to do something along the lines of jujitsu,

00:57:07.000 something that's very physically demanding, you have to strengthen your machine.

00:57:11.000 You can't just keep going to jujitsu, which is what I was doing for years.

00:57:14.000 Yeah, me too.

00:57:15.000 That was my exercise.

00:57:16.000 I don't think that's adequate.

00:57:17.000 I think you have to strengthen the machine and I think yoga is also a really big important part of strengthening that machine because it's lengthening, it's decompressing the spine, and it's making you strong in these static positions which is very similar to the load that's going to be pushed on those joints and on your back when you're doing jujitsu.

00:57:37.000 I tried yoga for a year.

00:57:39.000 I tried every day because usually I can get into anything at some point or another.

00:57:42.000 I just got to keep throwing enough hours at it.

00:57:43.000 The one thing I couldn't get into?

00:57:45.000 Couldn't do it.

00:57:47.000 Maybe my approach was wrong.

00:57:48.000 I was doing a shtung with my ex-wife, and it was incredibly painful, incredibly challenging.

00:57:54.000 But what I like about a fight is the competitive element of it.

00:57:58.000 Yes.

00:57:59.000 There's my enemy.

00:57:59.000 I can have a roll around with my enemy.

00:58:01.000 There's a tap.

00:58:01.000 There's a winner.

00:58:02.000 There's a loser.

00:58:02.000 And for some reason, that keeps me motivated.

00:58:04.000 The idea...

00:58:06.000 I mean, in essence, I imagine it's the...

00:58:09.000 What I was talking about in the end is self against self with yoga.

00:58:14.000 I just haven't made it that far to access that struggle and enjoy it.

00:58:21.000 I feel like I'm always running on fumes with yoga.

00:58:23.000 Yeah, well, you've got to run on fumes.

00:58:25.000 But it's building a house one layer of paint at a time.

00:58:29.000 I mean, it's not an easy thing to do.

00:58:32.000 And I think that competitive element that you're talking about is an internal struggle.

00:58:36.000 And that internal struggle is you and your breath.

00:58:39.000 Keeping your breath in calm and check and focusing entirely on your breath while managing the positions and then slowly but surely developing more proficiency in those positions more range of motion more dexterity keep going over and over again and then you one day you get to a point for me it was like maybe in a year and a half into doing it pretty regularly where I'm like okay now I can finally hold this position for 30 seconds and Whereas before I'd literally count to 10 and just try to get

00:59:09.000 to 10 and then I'd fall down.

00:59:11.000 And then I'd get back up and try again, try to get to 10, try to get to 10, my feet would buckle, my knee wouldn't be locked out, and then I'd try again.

00:59:19.000 But once you develop a certain amount of proficiency, then you can concentrate entirely on the breath.

00:59:25.000 And that's where the real struggle is.

00:59:27.000 And then keeping the mind on track, not thinking about other bullshit, not thinking about the just...

00:59:33.000 The struggle of life and all the different variables that you have to deal with on a daily basis.

00:59:37.000 Thinking only of the breath, the posture and the breath.

00:59:40.000 Very difficult to keep on track.

00:59:42.000 So that, and therein, that's the competitive struggle.

00:59:45.000 It's in your own mind.

00:59:46.000 You see a consistency with the theme, though.

00:59:48.000 The theme is this, that.

00:59:50.000 That's all there is.

00:59:51.000 It's the outside world and the noise and what comes with that.

00:59:55.000 And there's the internal self.

00:59:57.000 But everything is...

00:59:59.000 Everything is subject to these rules.

01:00:01.000 Yeah.

01:00:02.000 And yoga, in this sense, is no different.

01:00:05.000 Jiu-jitsu is no different.

01:00:06.000 Narrative is no different.

01:00:07.000 It's being aware of what the dynamic is.

01:00:10.000 It's being aware of what's actually going on that I think is fundamental.

01:00:14.000 Yes, yes.

01:00:15.000 And pattern recognition.

01:00:17.000 Recognizing that it's the same for yoga is for the essence of a narrative.

01:00:22.000 Absolutely.

01:00:23.000 Yeah, and those things become a vehicle for developing your human potential, whether it's yoga or whether it's jiu-jitsu.

01:00:28.000 And I think pattern recognition, they take place in both things.

01:00:32.000 In yoga, you go, okay, I've been here before.

01:00:34.000 I know where this is.

01:00:35.000 I know what to do.

01:00:36.000 And you go right back into that thing of concentrating on controlling the breath.

01:00:39.000 These big, long, deep breaths.

01:00:41.000 And these big long exhales.

01:00:43.000 And then the focus is entirely on the breath.

01:00:46.000 And those patterns, they come up in jiu-jitsu as well.

01:00:48.000 I mean, that ability to maintain breath, I mean, I'm sure you recognize that in a person who just starts.

01:00:54.000 Like one of the things you see about someone who's just starting, even if they're athletic, they don't know what they're doing.

01:00:58.000 They start hyperventilating.

01:01:00.000 They don't know what to do.

01:01:00.000 They start breathing weird.

01:01:01.000 And the breath is like the first thing that you lose control over.

01:01:05.000 And Hickson from that movie Choke, I mean, that was the big thing that separated Hickson from all the other jiu-jitsu players.

01:01:11.000 It was his yoga.

01:01:12.000 Yeah, his yoga.

01:01:13.000 He made yoga sexy.

01:01:14.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:01:15.000 Well, he was the first guy to make it appealing at all to martial artists.

01:01:20.000 I mean, that was what your wife did.

01:01:21.000 That's what your mom does.

01:01:22.000 It's what the housewives do.

01:01:24.000 It's not something that a man does, especially not the top jujitsu killer ever.

01:01:30.000 It was a seminal documentary, that.

01:01:33.000 Yeah.

01:01:33.000 It changed a lot of people's lives, and it sort of...

01:01:35.000 Turned Hickson into a rock star.

01:01:37.000 Oh, yeah.

01:01:38.000 Yeah.

01:01:38.000 I've had him in here.

01:01:40.000 He's an amazing guy to talk to.

01:01:42.000 I've talked to him several times, but having him in here and sitting down with him and talking to him about jiu-jitsu, it's like sitting down with Michelangelo and talking about art.

01:01:53.000 I mean, you're talking about...

01:01:56.000 There's masters, and then there's the master of the masters.

01:01:59.000 And if you talk to any jujitsu master, they all just go, Hickson is the number one.

01:02:03.000 Like, there's no dispute, which is amazing.

01:02:06.000 There's very few, like, there's soccer players that are just elite, and there's basketball players that are elite.

01:02:13.000 But when it comes to, like, who's the best, in jujitsu, there was always this one guy.

01:02:19.000 And while he was competitive, and especially while he was young, It was always Hickson, which is, to me, amazing that he was able to maintain.

01:02:26.000 And I think one of the things about him was his physicality and his mind.

01:02:32.000 I think those two things, in many ways, were enhanced by yoga.

01:02:37.000 I think he's got some disc issues now, though, doesn't he?

01:02:39.000 He has quite a few.

01:02:40.000 He has quite a few.

01:02:41.000 Yeah, I think he has eight bulging discs, which is horrific.

01:02:45.000 Maybe you should send him to your man.

01:02:46.000 Oh, I'm going to, 100%.

01:02:47.000 I mean, I've talked to Hickson about a bunch of things.

01:02:49.000 Hickson, though, is a bit reluctant for certain kinds of treatment.

01:02:53.000 You know, I mean, he's just going to eat mangoes and fucking meditate and shit.

01:02:58.000 I don't know.

01:02:59.000 I don't I don't know what he's tried or what he's willing to try, but I would love to see him.

01:03:06.000 I mean, I would love to see him rolling again.

01:03:08.000 I mean, that would be amazing if they could regenerate disc tissue to the point where he would be healthy.

01:03:13.000 I mean, that's the fear.

01:03:14.000 The fear for the first time for me is that I've never felt any version of age on the mat.

01:03:20.000 But when people are starting to tell me, oh, we're not going to fix it.

01:03:23.000 We're going to wait until we give you a new one.

01:03:25.000 I'm going, no, I don't know what the sound of this, mate.

01:03:27.000 And when they're saying that about your knee, what is the issue?

01:03:29.000 Is it a meniscus issue?

01:03:31.000 It is a meniscus issue, but I've lost 75% of the meniscus, of the cartilage.

01:03:36.000 I get confused between the difference of cartilage and meniscus.

01:03:39.000 What is the difference?

01:03:40.000 Cartilage is what covers the outside of the bone.

01:03:43.000 Meniscus is the padding, essentially, that's in between the two bones that keeps them from touching each other.

01:03:49.000 Right.

01:03:50.000 Okay.

01:03:50.000 So they have both...

01:03:52.000 So it goes bone, meniscus...

01:03:54.000 No, bone cartilage.

01:03:55.000 Bone cartilage meniscus.

01:03:56.000 Yes.

01:03:56.000 Right.

01:03:57.000 Yeah.

01:03:57.000 And the meniscus, you can cut some of it out, but when you...

01:04:01.000 And I've had that done.

01:04:02.000 My left knee, they did a...

01:04:05.000 They go in arthroscopically and they trim some of the torn meniscus.

01:04:08.000 Yeah.

01:04:08.000 It works, but it's less stable.

01:04:12.000 There's less tissue in there.

01:04:14.000 It's more subject to inflammation and swelling.

01:04:17.000 It doesn't handle the load as well.

01:04:19.000 But I got stem cells shot into there, and I've never had a problem since.

01:04:23.000 It's amazing.

01:04:24.000 I had a problem with it for, I mean, I tore it for the first time more than 20 years ago.

01:04:30.000 And had an operation, I think, in 95, somewhere around there.

01:04:35.000 And then I had another operation on it in 2001, 2002, and it's always been an issue since then.

01:04:42.000 It's just one of those things that it gets sore, I just deal with it.

01:04:45.000 Whether it's kickboxing, or whether it's lifting weights, or whether it's jujitsu, it gets sore, I just deal with it.

01:04:50.000 I take glucosamine and chondroitin and a lot of fish oil and anti-inflammatories, and changing my diet helped quite a bit, but there was always that thing, until they shot the stem cells in there.

01:05:01.000 And then literally within a few months, it's non-existent.

01:05:05.000 Like, I don't think I have this knee that acts up anymore.

01:05:07.000 Now I have a knee that never acts up.

01:05:09.000 It just doesn't bother me anymore.

01:05:11.000 This is very exciting stuff.

01:05:12.000 It's very exciting stuff.

01:05:13.000 And tell me, how thin on the wedge are we in terms of this being new?

01:05:19.000 Well, they've been doing it and experimenting with it for a couple of decades, apparently, according to Dr. McGee.

01:05:25.000 But the understanding of the potentials and the possibilities and then the practical application over the last 10 years has really come to the forefront.

01:05:33.000 It's really become something very, very viable.

01:05:36.000 It's not just theoretical anymore.

01:05:38.000 Now they're actually seeing people regenerating tissue.

01:05:41.000 They're seeing people where you have a tear in your shoulder or something like that, and they're going, oh, you're probably going to have to get surgery.

01:05:47.000 No, then they shoot it in there, and then next thing you know, a couple months later, I mean, I still got some floating tissue that pops and crunches and stuff in my shoulder, but when it comes to the actual strength in my shoulder, I don't worry about it at all.

01:06:00.000 It doesn't bother me.

01:06:01.000 I mean, there's occasionally some light soreness, but as far as the functional strength, Of the shoulder.

01:06:08.000 It's like a hundred percent.

01:06:09.000 It's crazy.

01:06:10.000 So is this the thin end of the wage then?

01:06:12.000 So is this gonna Is this gonna turn into one of those exponential?

01:06:17.000 Yes.

01:06:17.000 It is.

01:06:18.000 Oh for sure.

01:06:19.000 For sure.

01:06:19.000 They're already generating.

01:06:20.000 They built this woman.

01:06:22.000 This is very exciting.

01:06:23.000 It's very exciting.

01:06:24.000 It's as exciting as it gets.

01:06:25.000 They're regenerating tissue.

01:06:26.000 They're regenerating body parts.

01:06:28.000 They built this woman a bladder.

01:06:30.000 They took skin cell stem cells from her skin and in a petri dish they started this off and then she had bladder cancer and they built her a bladder and then put it in her body and it's functional.

01:06:43.000 It's amazing.

01:06:45.000 I mean, this is all state-of-the-art now, and when we're looking at like 10, 20, 30 years from now, I mean, you're looking at potentially regenerating all sorts of things, regenerating bone for people who have bone cancer, regenerating lungs and liver and spleen and heart.

01:07:01.000 I mean, they're going to be able to make body parts.

01:07:03.000 They've created an artificial heart that beats, like with stem cells.

01:07:07.000 They've actually constructed a human heart.

01:07:12.000 This is a subject you know something about.

01:07:13.000 I'm fascinated by it.

01:07:15.000 Fascinated by it.

01:07:16.000 Because what they're able to do now is just, you know, you're just looking into the future.

01:07:22.000 You get a window into this.

01:07:23.000 And it seems like it's exponentially exploding.

01:07:27.000 I mean, all over the world, there's people experimenting with this stuff and trying to figure out new ways to improve things.

01:07:32.000 With just the fact I'm having the conversation, and this isn't the first conversation I've had in the last month, about this.

01:07:38.000 Yeah.

01:07:38.000 It's part of the zeitgeist, no?

01:07:40.000 Oh, it is now.

01:07:41.000 People are understanding it, and people know people that have had issues with it.

01:07:45.000 You can't get it in America, but in Mexico, I know people that go over there and get it done intravenously.

01:07:52.000 And, you know, Bas Rutten, you know what Bas Rutten is.

01:07:54.000 Bas Rutten, the way he describes it, you know, Bas is this big character.

01:07:56.000 He's like, and it was like I had energy coming off my fingertips, like, ah!

01:08:02.000 Boss has had some pretty significant problems.

01:08:05.000 He's got fused discs in his neck and he had major atrophy in his arm because his disc was compressed and it was pushing on the nerves.

01:08:15.000 And so the nerves weren't firing correctly.

01:08:19.000 So his right arm, he calls baby arm, because his right arm has kind of shrunk.

01:08:23.000 And so he's experimented with a lot of these things.

01:08:25.000 He's kind of been ahead of the curve with this stuff.

01:08:28.000 You should get Jason Statham in here.

01:08:30.000 I'd love to.

01:08:31.000 You look like you fell out the same tree as him.

01:08:33.000 I know you do, right?

01:08:35.000 Yeah, it's very similar.

01:08:36.000 He's got a couple of tweaks here and there.

01:08:38.000 I met him.

01:08:39.000 He's a nice guy.

01:08:40.000 Oh, he's fabulous.

01:08:40.000 Was he a bunch of stuff going on with his body, too?

01:08:42.000 I'm sure.

01:08:42.000 He's a martial artist.

01:08:43.000 By the way, he's in better condition now.

01:08:45.000 He used to be an Olympic diver.

01:08:47.000 He used to dive for England.

01:08:49.000 You know, one of those whoosh divers.

01:08:51.000 Right.

01:08:53.000 Fabulous athlete.

01:08:54.000 And he takes care of himself.

01:08:56.000 I believe it.

01:08:58.000 But, you know, he's got tweaks.

01:08:59.000 He's got the old knee that just never quite goes away, that little thing.

01:09:04.000 And he does as much, and by the way, get him on diet, and he's off to the races.

01:09:09.000 You can't shut him up.

01:09:10.000 You've just got to, you know, leave him there for three hours, come back, go and have a couple of beers, come back.

01:09:16.000 We're still banging on about it.

01:09:17.000 It's something that he cares profoundly about.

01:09:20.000 I can tell you now, if you're sitting here now, there'll be a battle about...

01:09:24.000 You couldn't.

01:09:25.000 Who was going to say what to who because you talk over one another?

01:09:30.000 You should get him in here, though.

01:09:31.000 He'd relate to a bit of this, Joe.

01:09:33.000 No, I'm sure.

01:09:34.000 Do you watch your diet?

01:09:35.000 Are you a healthy eater?

01:09:36.000 Not as healthy as I'd like to be.

01:09:38.000 I go up and down.

01:09:40.000 I play.

01:09:41.000 I oscillate with 30 pounds of extra nonsense.

01:09:44.000 Most of the time, yeah.

01:09:46.000 I'm weighing 190 now.

01:09:48.000 I should weigh about 192 actually today.

01:09:50.000 And I should be creeping around a good fight and weigh about 178. So what is it?

01:09:56.000 Is it a booze thing?

01:09:57.000 It's a booze thing.

01:09:58.000 It's not the booze.

01:09:59.000 The booze isn't the issue in terms of the calories itself.

01:10:01.000 The booze is the window to the calories itself.

01:10:04.000 The pizza.

01:10:05.000 I'm not a pizza man, but I do love a pub.

01:10:09.000 A pub.

01:10:10.000 I do love a pub, and I like a pack of crisps.

01:10:12.000 You don't really have a pack of crisps.

01:10:13.000 You call them chips over here.

01:10:14.000 They're not quite the same thing.

01:10:16.000 They're not?

01:10:17.000 Well, no.

01:10:18.000 An English crisp is a heavyweight chip.

01:10:23.000 And they work particularly well in pubs.

01:10:26.000 So it's two pints of Guinness and a couple of packs of crisps, and you've belted in a thousand calories.

01:10:30.000 It's complete nonsense in all of about 22 minutes.

01:10:33.000 Right.

01:10:34.000 The salt, too, is very appealing when you're drinking a cold beer.

01:10:37.000 Yeah, the whole thing just works.

01:10:38.000 It enhances each other.

01:10:40.000 But it doesn't take long before there's a heavy price tag that comes with that.

01:10:44.000 I train a lot.

01:10:46.000 I reckon I train weights three times a week and fighting another three times a week.

01:10:53.000 I love training.

01:10:55.000 But I like a pub.

01:10:58.000 And it's trying to somehow reconcile that.

01:11:02.000 And every now and then I behave myself.

01:11:03.000 I stay out at the pub, stay off the booze for three months.

01:11:05.000 And I get myself down to 178. However, it's been five, six years since I've been there now.

01:11:12.000 I just dropped eight pounds the other day, strictly.

01:11:16.000 I was strict with myself off the booze.

01:11:18.000 Because I'm off the booze.

01:11:20.000 I don't look at food in the same way.

01:11:22.000 The whole purpose of booze is to relax.

01:11:24.000 The trouble is what also relaxes is the rules.

01:11:27.000 Right.

01:11:29.000 Right.

01:11:30.000 Now, when you're dealing with all these injuries, how are you able to train through all this stuff?

01:11:34.000 If you've got a shoulder that they're thinking one day might need to be replaced, the knees that might need to be replaced.

01:11:38.000 Yeah, just crack on.

01:11:39.000 Crack on.

01:11:40.000 Yeah.

01:11:40.000 And I've found that, and I'm sure you've had the same, through jiu-jitsu, whenever I get an injury, I find if you start mincing around with it and paying too much attention to it, it can dog on for longer.

01:11:52.000 Nine out of ten of my injuries I just trained through, and there's almost a bluffing game that you have with the injury.

01:11:58.000 Who's in charge here?

01:12:00.000 Me or the injury?

01:12:01.000 And once the injury knows as though you mean it, it tends to moonwalk out the door.

01:12:04.000 But there are more fundamental ones, like the shoulder and the knee.

01:12:07.000 The necks.

01:12:09.000 Well, I'll say that, actually.

01:12:10.000 The necks have been giving me a bit of aggro recently.

01:12:13.000 So there are a few things that you need to take quite seriously.

01:12:15.000 I can see you're onto this, Joe.

01:12:16.000 I can see you're focused on this.

01:12:18.000 Yeah.

01:12:19.000 Yeah, I know a lot about this stuff.

01:12:20.000 Yeah.

01:12:22.000 You're invested.

01:12:23.000 Yes.

01:12:24.000 Right?

01:12:24.000 And you need to be invested if you mean it.

01:12:27.000 It's ownership again.

01:12:28.000 Your investment is ownership.

01:12:30.000 Well, my good friend Eddie Bravo just had his disc replaced.

01:12:33.000 He had it replaced with a titanium articulating lower back disc.

01:12:48.000 I don't know who he is.

01:12:52.000 Well, it was before they were actually shooting it into the disc.

01:12:55.000 You had it done about a year ago.

01:12:56.000 Right.

01:12:57.000 About a year, about?

01:12:57.000 Eight, nine months ago?

01:12:58.000 Something like that?

01:12:59.000 So this does make me wonder whether you just hang on.

01:13:02.000 Yeah.

01:13:02.000 I would say with stem cells, with a lot of things, hang on.

01:13:05.000 With some things, you can hang on, like ACL tears.

01:13:08.000 Once the tear, once the ligament is removed, there's nothing you can do.

01:13:13.000 You have to have it replaced.

01:13:14.000 It's a terrible thing.

01:13:15.000 Yeah.

01:13:15.000 The ACL, and it's such a common injury.

01:13:18.000 But you know what's interesting is once you get it replaced, like for me, I had a patella tendon graft on the left knee and then a cadaver graft on the right knee.

01:13:26.000 Oh, right.

01:13:27.000 You've had all sorts of things done there.

01:13:29.000 Yeah, I've done it all.

01:13:29.000 Right.

01:13:30.000 But neither one of them bother me at all anymore.

01:13:32.000 And they're stronger.

01:13:33.000 Like when they do a cadaver graft, they use the Achilles tendon, which is 150 plus percent stronger than your original ACL. So it actually makes it a stronger joint.

01:13:46.000 Right.

01:13:47.000 Mine's not.

01:13:48.000 Yeah, well, the patella tendon graft is still stronger.

01:13:51.000 When they use a patella tendon graft, it is still stronger.

01:13:53.000 And your patella tendon is a very huge tendon.

01:13:55.000 And you can operate with a third of it missing, which is essentially what they cut out when they...

01:14:02.000 My right leg, which has had the two ACLs, I've noticed it's atrophied and there's very little I can do to beef up that quad.

01:14:10.000 That's probably because you're favoring your left side.

01:14:13.000 I am.

01:14:13.000 But then, you know, I isolate it and I beast the thing.

01:14:16.000 But I just can't engage it.

01:14:17.000 I can't get a flat leg like I can on my left leg.

01:14:20.000 You get it completely flat if you extend it.

01:14:22.000 You mean extended it so it bends?

01:14:24.000 Yes.

01:14:24.000 So you can engage all your quads.

01:14:27.000 Oh, yeah.

01:14:27.000 You've got to get some stem cells in that bad boy.

01:14:29.000 It's very exciting.

01:14:30.000 It's very exciting.

01:14:30.000 Yeah, it's the real deal.

01:14:32.000 I mean, it's something special.

01:14:33.000 It's 30 years I've been living with this.

01:14:35.000 Yeah, they can fix you up.

01:14:37.000 They can fix you up.

01:14:37.000 But diet is huge.

01:14:39.000 One of the things about diet is inflammation.

01:14:41.000 And I never really wrapped that in my head.

01:14:43.000 See, about three or four years ago, I had a pretty significant back injury.

01:14:48.000 And like I was saying, my hands were numb.

01:14:50.000 And it was because I was ignoring it.

01:14:52.000 Because I would pinch it in jujitsu and then I would go, oh, I'm still going to roll light.

01:14:56.000 I'll just go in there and roll light.

01:14:57.000 And then after a while, it was getting bad to the point my back was locking up and my hands started going numb.

01:15:02.000 And I'd get this pretty significant elbow pain.

01:15:04.000 So I started really researching all the options and what's really going on.

01:15:09.000 And one of the big ones that I found was diet.

01:15:11.000 That when you have too many inflammation-causing foods in your diet, and you're eating too much sugar and bread and booze and all these different things, it affects how your body carries fat, but it also affects where your body holds onto inflammation.

01:15:28.000 And joints in particular, all the injury spots were way sore when I had a shitty diet.

01:15:34.000 So give me the evils.

01:15:36.000 As Laird Hamilton calls them, the three white devils.

01:15:40.000 Sugar.

01:15:41.000 Bread.

01:15:44.000 What's the other one?

01:15:45.000 Yeah, what is the other one?

01:15:46.000 Booze?

01:15:47.000 No.

01:15:48.000 It's kind of white.

01:15:50.000 The foam on beer is white.

01:15:53.000 What is it?

01:15:54.000 You should know what the three white devils are.

01:15:56.000 Well, it's flour, pasta, sugar.

01:15:58.000 I don't know.

01:15:58.000 What is the other one?

01:15:59.000 Dairy, I guess, maybe?

01:16:00.000 Dairy.

01:16:00.000 There you go.

01:16:00.000 Yeah.

01:16:01.000 I like cheese, though.

01:16:02.000 So do you not drink...

01:16:04.000 Alcohol?

01:16:04.000 Yeah, I do.

01:16:05.000 Yeah.

01:16:06.000 What do you drink?

01:16:06.000 I just try not to drink too much.

01:16:08.000 I mean, it's like all things in moderation, including moderation.

01:16:10.000 There you go.

01:16:11.000 Yeah.

01:16:11.000 I mean, I'm not a big drinker.

01:16:13.000 I don't, like, I'm not drinking every night, but if I go out, you know, and I have a drink or have a glass of wine with dinner or a couple glasses, I'm cool.

01:16:21.000 I think it's just a matter of just controlling yourself.

01:16:24.000 Yeah.

01:16:25.000 That's really the thing.

01:16:26.000 So, uh...

01:16:27.000 The Three White Devils?

01:16:29.000 Do you subscribe to Three White Devils?

01:16:31.000 I occasionally will allow myself to dance with the devil.

01:16:36.000 With all three of them?

01:16:38.000 Yeah, with a little bit of sugar.

01:16:39.000 Like last night I had some linguine with clams.

01:16:42.000 I go on an 80-20, which means 80% of my diet is very clean.

01:16:47.000 And then 20% I'll fuck off, whether it's Saturday or Friday or whatever.

01:16:51.000 How do you feel about raw milk and pasteurized?

01:16:53.000 I love raw milk.

01:16:55.000 Very exciting.

01:16:55.000 I like the way it tastes.

01:16:56.000 I'm opening a little raw milk dairy.

01:16:58.000 Are you really?

01:16:59.000 I am.

01:17:00.000 I'm very interested in this whole thing.

01:17:04.000 More from a culinary point of view than I am from a nutritional point of view.

01:17:09.000 However, I suspect that there's a sweet spot here.

01:17:14.000 Opening a brewery.

01:17:15.000 I love a beer.

01:17:16.000 You're opening a brewery?

01:17:17.000 Opening a brewery, yeah.

01:17:18.000 How much do you know about making beer?

01:17:21.000 Yeah, quite a lot, actually.

01:17:23.000 Have you been doing it on your own?

01:17:24.000 I've done all that sort of arsing around underneath the stairs routine for years, which is great fun.

01:17:30.000 I like any sort of form of caveman chemistry.

01:17:34.000 Francis Maumann, you know Francis Maumann?

01:17:36.000 He's a big fan of that sort of thing.

01:17:38.000 I'm a bit of a caveman when it comes to anything to do with food, so I do like a nice steak outside.

01:17:43.000 If I say so myself.

01:17:46.000 I'm good on a barbecue.

01:17:48.000 And I've been doing that barbecuing for 20 years.

01:17:51.000 Good on a slow cook.

01:17:53.000 Take that all quite seriously.

01:17:56.000 But so yeah, opening a brewery, beer.

01:17:59.000 And then when I'm at it, I'm opening a butchers, a bakers, a candlestick makers too.

01:18:03.000 It's got a small hotel.

01:18:05.000 I've got a place in England, 1,500 acres, farm, got all that sort of nonsense going on.

01:18:12.000 So you're going to do farm to table, the whole deal?

01:18:14.000 Yeah, I fancy that.

01:18:14.000 Make your own beer?

01:18:16.000 Yeah.

01:18:16.000 Raise your own animals?

01:18:17.000 Serve them?

01:18:18.000 Yeah, the whole thing.

01:18:19.000 Oh, nice.

01:18:20.000 Quite like gin.

01:18:20.000 I was just into gin, actually.

01:18:22.000 Gin?

01:18:22.000 Yeah.

01:18:23.000 I mean, gin's traditionally an English drink, but I wasn't really into it until I came to America, and I found since I've been here in the last, over the last week, It's been quite a few gin and tonics going on.

01:18:34.000 Yeah?

01:18:34.000 And gin apparently is the easiest of the spirits to make, so I might have a little swing on that too.

01:18:40.000 I'm good friends with Maynard Keenan, the lead singer of Tool, and he went essentially for years, just went and developed his own vineyard.

01:18:49.000 Where?

01:18:49.000 Where is he?

01:18:50.000 Arizona.

01:18:50.000 Ah, right.

01:18:51.000 Yeah, and not in a place in Arizona that's known for growing wine.

01:18:55.000 So he had to manipulate the soil and...

01:18:57.000 I bet he's having a lovely time.

01:18:59.000 Oh, he loves it!

01:18:59.000 Yeah, it's probably quite an expensive lovely time though, isn't it?

01:19:02.000 I'm sure.

01:19:02.000 He's making money with it now, but he's like a legitimate genius.

01:19:06.000 And he's one of those guys that he cannot be stagnant.

01:19:09.000 It's not even an option.

01:19:11.000 I mean, his mind works a thousand miles an hour.

01:19:14.000 When you're talking to him, you just got to kind of jump on the train and hang on there with him as long as you can and jump off and go, whew!

01:19:20.000 But he's just a very, very, very intense guy and his particular brand of intellectual curiosity led him to start experimenting with wine.

01:19:31.000 His wine is absolutely fantastic and he's a legitimate wine expert.

01:19:35.000 Like, you sit here and talk to him the same way you and I can talk about Buchecha or, you know, Hadra Gracie or Henzo.

01:19:41.000 He can talk to you about wine and he's also a purple belt in jujitsu.

01:19:45.000 I like the sound of this.

01:19:48.000 The wine business I do find interesting.

01:19:51.000 There's something happening with the whole craft movement in general that's very exciting that we are going back to local stuff and people, to a degree it's ownership again.

01:20:03.000 Yes.

01:20:03.000 It's take ownership of your food, take ownership of everything to do with the important components of your life.

01:20:13.000 And it all got robbed from us.

01:20:15.000 Yeah.

01:20:15.000 What happened in the 70s in the UK is all these breweries bought up all the pubs, and they brought up all these small breweries, and used to have all these breweries with their own little crafty beer going on, and then they homogenized it, and then they sold it back to us, and they gave it back to us without character, and we just bought it because we were stupid.

01:20:32.000 Right.

01:20:33.000 Yeah.

01:20:34.000 And then what's happening is we realize that character is important and local character is important and ownership is important.

01:20:41.000 So there's this movement.

01:20:44.000 And to a degree, things like Instagram may have a dark side, but it also has a light side.

01:20:50.000 It's given a voice to the craft movement.

01:20:52.000 I like a man that makes his own knives.

01:20:55.000 Have you followed any of that stuff?

01:20:57.000 Yes, I order handmade knives all the time.

01:21:00.000 That's what I use to cut my food.

01:21:02.000 They feel good.

01:21:03.000 It's a completely different experience.

01:21:05.000 I have exactly the same thing.

01:21:07.000 We order a lot of handmade knives.

01:21:09.000 And when you're cutting your food with a handmade knife, it's not what it used to be.

01:21:14.000 You realize a knife should be a thing.

01:21:16.000 Yes.

01:21:17.000 And it got robbed from us.

01:21:18.000 Do you know who Steve Kramer is?

01:21:20.000 No, I'm not sure if I do.

01:21:21.000 He's a guy who makes knives with meteorites.

01:21:24.000 Yes, I do know.

01:21:25.000 I've seen him.

01:21:25.000 There's a little thing on YouTube on it.

01:21:27.000 With Anthony Bourdain.

01:21:28.000 I've seen the thing with Anthony Bourdain.

01:21:30.000 He takes a chunk of iron and it came from space.

01:21:33.000 It's fabulous.

01:21:34.000 Yeah, it's amazing.

01:21:35.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:36.000 Actually, I've got a feeling that might have been the genesis of my interest in knives with that anti-Bourdain thing.

01:21:41.000 There's a guy, Mamousie Fire Arts, find that on Instagram, but he just made me this Damascus steel cutting knife and a hunting knife to go with it.

01:21:50.000 And it's just...

01:21:51.000 I mean, I cut with it, but I stare at it for minutes before I cut with it.

01:21:56.000 I look at the blade and the handles made out of thousand-year-old bog wood, like wood that was preserved from a bog, like bog maple.

01:22:04.000 It's amazing.

01:22:05.000 This is amazing, but why is it so interesting?

01:22:08.000 But the fact is, it is interesting.

01:22:10.000 Look at the pattern in the steel.

01:22:13.000 This is Damascus steel.

01:22:14.000 If you go to his Instagram, there's a picture of my knife in there.

01:22:17.000 You can see it.

01:22:19.000 This guy is, I mean, that's it right there.

01:22:21.000 The far right, the far right, those two.

01:22:23.000 Those are the two knives that he made for me.

01:22:25.000 That's a sexy bit of kit.

01:22:26.000 Oh, fuck yeah.

01:22:27.000 Look at those.

01:22:28.000 Ancient bog oak.

01:22:29.000 That's what it is.

01:22:30.000 Where's the bog from?

01:22:31.000 Is it an American bog?

01:22:33.000 I don't know.

01:22:33.000 I'd have to ask him.

01:22:34.000 I just took his word for it.

01:22:37.000 But look at that thing.

01:22:38.000 That's lovely.

01:22:39.000 I mean, that's what I use to cut up garlic.

01:22:40.000 Our sword, Excalibur, we made out of Damascus steel.

01:22:43.000 Oh, man, really?

01:22:45.000 Yeah.

01:22:46.000 I'm into a bit of Damascus.

01:22:47.000 Sexy stuff.

01:22:48.000 So, did you have a bladesmith fashion for your movie?

01:22:51.000 Yeah.

01:22:52.000 Wow.

01:22:52.000 So you had it specifically made for the movie?

01:22:55.000 Yeah.

01:22:55.000 Poor old Charlie Hunnam, who plays King Arthur, has been waiting to receive this sword.

01:23:01.000 How much does it weigh?

01:23:02.000 I mean, this motherfucker had to get in shape for that thing, right?

01:23:04.000 Yeah.

01:23:05.000 Oh, he's in good nick.

01:23:05.000 Sure.

01:23:07.000 You ever do those shield casts with a steel club?

01:23:11.000 You realize how difficult it is to manipulate even a 15-pound club?

01:23:16.000 Yeah, a bit of hard work.

01:23:17.000 Very hard work.

01:23:18.000 Those guys, like sword fighters, must have had intense shoulder strength and core strength.

01:23:24.000 Yeah, but they dig these guys up.

01:23:25.000 In the UK, every now and then, they stumble across a body that's 500 years old, and they realize the deformity in the shoulders from all of the...

01:23:36.000 Right.

01:23:37.000 Whatever you call that when you pull a bow back.

01:23:38.000 Yeah.

01:23:39.000 And it used to be in English law that every Englishman had to practice for eight hours a week to pull back a bow.

01:23:47.000 So you've got all these skeletons that are deformed from the enormous strength of the soldiers on the shoulders of these guys.

01:23:53.000 Deformed how so?

01:23:54.000 What is the issue with it?

01:23:55.000 It was...

01:23:57.000 The sheer...

01:23:58.000 Joe, you know a lot more about this than me, but they had become deformed through the development of the muscle, which in some way then changed the...

01:24:09.000 The bone structure itself.

01:24:10.000 The bone structure, yeah.

01:24:11.000 Wow.

01:24:12.000 They've all got these massive, great...

01:24:14.000 Right arms.

01:24:16.000 I don't know if you know in the UK, you know, in this country you do this.

01:24:19.000 The finger?

01:24:20.000 Which is the single finger.

01:24:21.000 Right.

01:24:22.000 In the UK it's two fingers.

01:24:23.000 Right, but why is that?

01:24:24.000 It's for bows and arrows, right?

01:24:25.000 It comes from the English wars and the French wars.

01:24:32.000 And the Englishmen were famous for their longbows.

01:24:35.000 There was a famous Battle of Agincourt where there was a couple of hundred of us and there was 10,000 of them.

01:24:41.000 They had crossbows back then and we had the longbow.

01:24:46.000 The longbow was the machine gun in the bow and arrow world.

01:24:51.000 And because the Brits, that's what they did, they were eight hours a week, every Englishman had to do that.

01:24:56.000 They were pretty lethal with these things.

01:24:58.000 Anyway, they annihilated the entire French army.

01:25:01.000 It was this kind of famous battle.

01:25:02.000 The French have conveniently forgotten.

01:25:05.000 So what the French did thereafter, if they ever caught an Englishman, was they chopped off two of his fingers.

01:25:11.000 The two fingers that pulled back the bow.

01:25:14.000 So whenever, as history then made eloquent, is that whenever you saw a Frenchman, you used to wave the two fingers up at him.

01:25:24.000 And then since then, it's now just become, you know, the old ubiquitous fuck off sign.

01:25:31.000 Have you seen the way the Mongols did it?

01:25:34.000 The Mongols, they had these incredibly powerful recurve bows that would take 160 pounds to pull back, and they used their thumb.

01:25:41.000 They would have a thumb ring made out of bone.

01:25:44.000 Have you seen that?

01:25:45.000 No, I haven't.

01:25:46.000 I do like a Mongol, though.

01:25:48.000 There's a fantastic audio documentary on the history of the Mongols, The Wrath of the Khan with Dan Carlin.

01:25:55.000 Have you ever listened to that?

01:25:56.000 Yeah.

01:25:56.000 It's amazing.

01:25:57.000 Yeah, Ivan out there is a bit of a fan of yours.

01:26:00.000 He keeps me up to date on different things that you're interested in because he's interested in the same things.

01:26:05.000 I didn't know about the knives.

01:26:06.000 And there's a couple of other things I didn't know that you knew about.

01:26:08.000 But he's a big fan.

01:26:09.000 He got me onto this.

01:26:10.000 See those things right there?

01:26:11.000 He got onto this because you got him onto it.

01:26:14.000 Ah, I'm sure.

01:26:14.000 But once you hear Dan Carlin, I mean, it is absolutely addictive.

01:26:18.000 But this is the ring that they would put on their thumb, and they would pull back like that, and then they would wrap their index finger over the thing where the thumb nail is, and then pull it back that way, and then release.

01:26:32.000 That's how they would release their arrows.

01:26:34.000 Well, it didn't get him very far, did it?

01:26:36.000 Well, it did for a long time until Genghis Khan died.

01:26:40.000 I mean, they killed 10% of the population.

01:26:42.000 No, I mean, I was kidding.

01:26:44.000 Joke around.

01:26:46.000 They killed so many people, they changed the carbon footprint of Earth.

01:26:49.000 There was a New York Times article about how many people died during Genghis Khan's reign that it was so significant you could see it in the carbon data.

01:26:57.000 You're kidding.

01:26:57.000 No.

01:26:58.000 No, I'm not kidding.

01:26:59.000 See if you can pull that article.

01:27:00.000 He killed between 50 and 70 million people during his lifetime, were directly attributed to his army and his decisions.

01:27:10.000 50 to 70 million people died.

01:27:13.000 The conservative estimate is somewhere around 30. The liberal estimate is somewhere around 70. Nobody really knows, but they think it's between...

01:27:19.000 Look at that.

01:27:19.000 Mongol invasion in 1200 altered carbon dioxide levels.

01:27:25.000 They killed so many fucking people.

01:27:27.000 They changed the earth.

01:27:29.000 There was probably only a million people kicking around on the earth.

01:27:32.000 I don't know how many people there were.

01:27:33.000 I think there was a lot more than a million because they killed a million people in Jing, China.

01:27:38.000 They killed people in numbers that we can't even...

01:27:42.000 In Jen, I think it was Jen, China, they showed up, and this is part of the Dan Carlin series, the Queers Man's Shah sent an envoy, like a party, to go search this city in China.

01:27:59.000 And as they pulled up, they thought what they saw in the distance was a snow-covered mountain.

01:28:04.000 As they got closer, they realized it was a stack of bones.

01:28:08.000 And the roads were so deteriorated from human bodies, just rotting human bodies, they had abandoned the roads.

01:28:15.000 Because they couldn't get their cars through, their wheels rather, through.

01:28:19.000 Because their wheels were getting bogged down.

01:28:21.000 Their horses were getting bogged down in the muck of deteriorating bodies.

01:28:26.000 That's how many people the Mongols killed.

01:28:29.000 What the fuck?

01:28:32.000 And was it just a desire for empire?

01:28:36.000 It's a real good question.

01:28:37.000 First of all is the dehumanization of the enemy.

01:28:40.000 I mean, his idea was that everybody who doesn't live in a tent, anybody who doesn't live the way they do, these fools that live in cities, they weren't even human.

01:28:47.000 They were sheep.

01:28:48.000 Like, there was a certain disconnect between them and the other, which is imperative.

01:28:53.000 It's the most important thing in war.

01:28:55.000 You have to decide that that person's not you, right?

01:28:58.000 You have to decide that they're the other, whether it's the Vietnamese or the German, the Nazis, the Japanese, like, whatever it is, you have to decide that they're less than you.

01:29:06.000 And they had this thing about people that did not live like they did.

01:29:10.000 That they were pussies.

01:29:12.000 These weak people that lived in these cities with their walls.

01:29:15.000 And so they would just find these cities.

01:29:18.000 They'd stroll up and they would just figure out a way to start attacking them.

01:29:21.000 They would light bodies on fire and launch them with catapults onto the roofs of these buildings.

01:29:26.000 But what was the...

01:29:28.000 What was the motivation?

01:29:30.000 It was just...

01:29:31.000 Conquering.

01:29:31.000 Just conquering.

01:29:32.000 I mean, they just wanted to expand their empire and take over.

01:29:35.000 I mean, there's no noble pursuit in there.

01:29:38.000 There's no religious pursuit either.

01:29:40.000 I mean, it's a...

01:29:40.000 Just expansion.

01:29:41.000 Yeah.

01:29:42.000 Well, they just wanted to own it all.

01:29:43.000 They felt like everyone they encountered...

01:29:46.000 Was subject to their rule.

01:29:48.000 And they had to establish that.

01:29:50.000 It's a very, very intense series.

01:29:53.000 No, I remember.

01:29:53.000 I remember I got into it about five years ago.

01:29:55.000 And I remember the bone thing.

01:29:57.000 I copied the bone thing in King Arthur.

01:29:59.000 I've got mountains of bones in King Arthur.

01:30:01.000 Oh, nice.

01:30:01.000 No, but I do remember some of that.

01:30:04.000 Funny how things drift.

01:30:06.000 You'd appreciate this.

01:30:08.000 This is a legitimate samurai sword from the 1500s.

01:30:12.000 Oh, really?

01:30:12.000 Yeah, that's a real one.

01:30:15.000 Well, that's quite sexy time.

01:30:16.000 What's this shark skin going on up here?

01:30:18.000 I don't know.

01:30:19.000 I mean, I think that the case is probably a modern case.

01:30:23.000 But that blade itself, that is a blade from somewhere around 1511, I think.

01:30:29.000 How did you get your hands on this?

01:30:30.000 It was a gift.

01:30:31.000 Really?

01:30:31.000 Who from?

01:30:32.000 My business associate, Aubrey Marcus.

01:30:35.000 Really?

01:30:35.000 A good buddy of mine, and we're in business at Onnit together, and he gave me this.

01:30:39.000 That's quite a thing.

01:30:40.000 Yeah, it's quite a thing.

01:30:42.000 That's a real thing.

01:30:43.000 It's not one of these blades that once you take out, it's got to draw blood, is it?

01:30:46.000 No, no, no.

01:30:47.000 It's a funny thing.

01:30:48.000 We got this military unit in the UK called the Gurkhas that come from Nepal.

01:30:53.000 It's been a tradition for a couple of hundred years.

01:30:55.000 And they have these funny little knives with hooks on.

01:30:58.000 Yeah, they're weird knives.

01:30:59.000 Weird knives.

01:30:59.000 And once they draw them, once they're out of their sheath, they're not allowed to put them back until there's got blood on them.

01:31:05.000 So they have to cut themselves?

01:31:07.000 So they cut themselves.

01:31:08.000 Jesus Christ.

01:31:09.000 That's like a weird excuse to cut yourself.

01:31:12.000 Yeah.

01:31:14.000 I mean, doesn't that...

01:31:14.000 That's like a pretty rigid requirement.

01:31:16.000 Don't draw unless you're going to draw blood.

01:31:19.000 What can I tell you?

01:31:20.000 Yeah.

01:31:20.000 Being a soldier is tough stuff.

01:31:22.000 It is as tough as it gets.

01:31:24.000 Yeah.

01:31:24.000 Now, that's something about your film, I'm sure, is you're dealing with a different time and that life back then, although always precious, the finite aspect of life is more solidified.

01:31:39.000 It's more obvious.

01:31:41.000 It's something you're dealing with on a daily basis as opposed to the way we live.

01:31:44.000 Yeah, I think there's all sorts of advantages to that.

01:31:47.000 If you're looking down the barrel of a gun, nothing sobers you up quite like looking down the barrel of a gun.

01:31:52.000 And we've managed to distract ourselves by...

01:31:59.000 The comfortable liberal lives that we lead and that the price for that is that we don't really accept the full accountancy of life.

01:32:08.000 So we do give ourselves crutches.

01:32:10.000 When you look down the barrel of a gun, all your crutches are taken away.

01:32:13.000 So I suppose in different periods of time, you didn't have the indulgence of being able to worry about what people thought of you because there were more important things to worry about.

01:32:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:32:29.000 There were more important things to worry about than social media.

01:32:32.000 You had to worry about arrows, swords, death, constant.

01:32:37.000 The thing is, even come back to the Mongols, so what was his desire for gain?

01:32:42.000 His desire for gain was, the more people appreciate and respect me, then the more I'll be.

01:32:48.000 Is there anything else that kills people other than that motivation?

01:32:54.000 Not like that.

01:32:55.000 Well, not even like that.

01:32:56.000 I'm just talking about murder.

01:32:58.000 Right.

01:32:59.000 The whole genesis of murder is based on the principle that someone has more power than me, so I have to take that power away.

01:33:06.000 Or my comparative sense of self feels augmented if I can take their life away.

01:33:13.000 It all comes back to the same thing.

01:33:15.000 You're really asking someone to tell you who you are.

01:33:18.000 And if you, paradoxically and ironically, if you kill them, that makes you more powerful than them, although they can no longer bear witness, or they did bear witness for a second.

01:33:27.000 But what does bear witness is the story in your mind that somehow you are now more powerful.

01:33:34.000 Or you just fucking hate them.

01:33:35.000 You don't want them around anymore.

01:33:37.000 But why do you hate them?

01:33:38.000 Because they're threatening.

01:33:40.000 Yes, in some way.

01:33:42.000 They're threatening in some way that somehow they can diminish your idea of who you are.

01:33:47.000 Or you find them repugnant, their actions repugnant, dangerous to their society.

01:33:52.000 Something.

01:33:53.000 Then that's not murder then, is it?

01:33:54.000 Right.

01:33:54.000 It's just eliminating an enemy, right?

01:33:56.000 Or eliminating a threat.

01:33:59.000 Yeah.

01:33:59.000 If you could go back, I mean, I've often thought about this as technology evolves.

01:34:04.000 Like, will there come a point in time where you can have a window to a certain era?

01:34:09.000 Like, will time machines ever be a thing where there's a time where you can actually go back and view the past?

01:34:18.000 Is there a period?

01:34:19.000 What period?

01:34:20.000 Probably quite a lot.

01:34:22.000 Because of Google Earth, I'm one of those, I like a good porn on Google Earth.

01:34:26.000 So, where I live in Wiltshire, I've got a house in English countryside, next door to Stonehenge.

01:34:32.000 If you go on Google Earth, where they ploughed the fields, you can see where there have been burial sites for thousands of years.

01:34:42.000 Stonehenge is about five and a half thousand years old.

01:34:44.000 But all around that area, in these plough fields, you can see they've still got burial mounds and whatnot.

01:34:52.000 And the whole earth is littered with prehistorical...

01:35:01.000 Earthworks and burial sites.

01:35:03.000 And there are burial sites that we have this thing called Ordnance Survey, which registers, I mean, but you'll have the same thing here, which registers everything on the earth, right?

01:35:11.000 So everything of any historical value, there's a map and they tell you where the footpaths are and the roads are and everything.

01:35:15.000 It's highly detailed how high the mountains are and the roads and whatnot.

01:35:20.000 And I'm a bit of an anorak for that.

01:35:24.000 Do you know what the expression anorak is?

01:35:25.000 No.

01:35:26.000 It's like a geek.

01:35:27.000 Okay.

01:35:27.000 You know those guys that watch trains and planes?

01:35:30.000 Right.

01:35:30.000 They usually wear those jackets called anoraks.

01:35:32.000 That's where the expression comes from.

01:35:34.000 So I'm a bit of an anorak for topography, the history of topography.

01:35:40.000 So you go on Google Earth, this was a bit of a wet dream as far as I was concerned because I could spend hours and hours poring over landscape.

01:35:50.000 And around my house, you can find these burial sites that no one knows existed.

01:35:54.000 And it's only since Google Earth it existed.

01:35:56.000 I'm confident that still I'm the only person that knows these burial sites exist.

01:36:01.000 So how do you know they're burial sites?

01:36:03.000 Like, what are you seeing if you're finding one?

01:36:04.000 Because you can build up a...

01:36:07.000 An understanding of pattern recognition again.

01:36:09.000 You can see an established burial site, which is seen as a prehistorical burial site, Bronze Age or whatever it is.

01:36:16.000 And then you step a mile to the right, and then you can find one under a ploughed field where they've got rid of the mounds, but you can still see the depressions, which is in exactly the same shape as the depressions a mile to the right.

01:36:32.000 And then you can build up a whole pattern.

01:36:36.000 So, you know, this is the area where you get crop circles.

01:36:38.000 Yeah.

01:36:39.000 And then you can build up a whole picture, which is a much bigger picture, and then you can start to predict where one burial site is going to be, and it's a bit like finding treasure.

01:36:50.000 And you go, oh, 200 yards that direction, 200 yards that direction, and it should be about, and bang, there it is.

01:36:55.000 You can see half of these depressions, and then it runs into a wood or whatever it is.

01:37:00.000 But there's stuff that...

01:37:03.000 It exists, and you wouldn't have known before Google Earth came along.

01:37:06.000 How much work is being done on, like, trying to study those things?

01:37:09.000 Well, the thing is, I'm sure quite a lot, but the thing is, it's prehistorical, so the only thing that is there is arrowheads.

01:37:15.000 Right.

01:37:16.000 Right, and burial mounts, and every now and then they dig one up, and then they find a boat buried with lots of gold in it and whatnot, and that happens every now and then.

01:37:26.000 But there isn't much evidence that was left behind.

01:37:29.000 So, you know, most of these things are just a mound of earth with a few bones in it.

01:37:33.000 But it's kind of crazy because that's an area where people have been living for thousands of years.

01:37:36.000 It's not like people went away and then came back and now you're trying to...

01:37:40.000 Like, people have consistently lived in that area.

01:37:43.000 And then you see things like that horse, that stone horse in the countryside.

01:37:48.000 Yeah, the chalk horse.

01:37:49.000 There's one big man with a big willy, too, who's made out of chalk.

01:37:52.000 There's a horse who's made out of chalk.

01:37:55.000 Look him up.

01:37:56.000 He's the man with the big white willy.

01:37:59.000 And all in that area that you have these different emblems of what represented tribes or whatever.

01:38:07.000 So we now live in the UK, which is the United Kingdom.

01:38:12.000 But there is a legacy there.

01:38:15.000 I mean, you'll have the same here.

01:38:17.000 There is a legacy there that you can trace back step by step.

01:38:23.000 For thousands of years.

01:38:25.000 And we get, you know, I get my nut around the Romans.

01:38:27.000 Right.

01:38:28.000 That was a couple of thousand years ago.

01:38:29.000 And the Romans been kicking around the UK a couple of thousand years.

01:38:33.000 And then they went and then came the Saxons.

01:38:36.000 And then after the Saxons, then the French came in.

01:38:39.000 And then the French basically took over the UK in 1066. And then you have the culture that we have now.

01:38:47.000 But you can see you somehow you forget that it go that your culture goes on for thousands of years and you accept really what we see as history is the last six thousand years or five thousand years but when you can have a connection to it it goes back further than that it's hard to get you not around the romans never mind the bronze age yeah and what is that there's the guy with the big willy holy What an odd...

01:39:15.000 And how old is that?

01:39:17.000 I don't know.

01:39:17.000 Did it say how old it is?

01:39:19.000 There's lots of that that goes on around those bars.

01:39:21.000 Can you imagine that guy running at you?

01:39:22.000 Fully erect.

01:39:24.000 With a giant club.

01:39:26.000 How strange.

01:39:27.000 And there's a bunch of these and do they understand the origins of these things?

01:39:31.000 Do they know where they came from?

01:39:32.000 I don't know is the answer to that.

01:39:34.000 These are later.

01:39:36.000 They look quite primitive though, don't they?

01:39:38.000 Yeah.

01:39:38.000 I think these are later.

01:39:41.000 How strange.

01:39:42.000 But that whole area is littered in this sort of paraphernalia, if you will.

01:39:49.000 Yeah, and they don't necessarily know who did it or why.

01:39:53.000 No, but what's exciting to someone like me is that you aren't going through any other conduit.

01:40:00.000 And I suppose it's what it is.

01:40:02.000 It's the mystery.

01:40:03.000 It's the mythology of all of this.

01:40:07.000 But it's your road into it as an individual.

01:40:10.000 You're not going through any history books.

01:40:12.000 You're seeing it, and it's like discovering treasure.

01:40:17.000 You can access it on your own, on Google Earth, and you're thinking, is anyone else doing this?

01:40:23.000 And why would they be doing it?

01:40:24.000 I started doing it because I wanted to see, I can't remember, some aspect on some part of my land.

01:40:29.000 And before I know, oh look, there's a burial site up there, I'll have a little look.

01:40:31.000 And then before you know it, breadcrumbs lead the bakeries, and you find yourself filling your boots with all the pastries in the world.

01:40:39.000 And there's something very exciting about that.

01:40:41.000 So, in reference to what it was that you said earlier, if I could go back to any time...

01:40:46.000 I'd like to go back for a minute.

01:40:47.000 I'm not sure if I'd like to go back for long.

01:40:51.000 I see that the period that we're living in is the most exciting period to live on this planet.

01:40:59.000 And not least so because of what we've been talking about, stem cells.

01:41:06.000 Is that going to be the thing that allows you and I to age more gracefully and without so much pain?

01:41:15.000 We have enough wealth that we can live a comfortable life, if you decide, if you choose to live a comfortable life.

01:41:24.000 We have medicine that we've never had before.

01:41:27.000 In this period in history, we are still complaining.

01:41:32.000 We're still complaining.

01:41:33.000 But if we could just remember what we are comparatively, where the position we are in history comparatively, it's an end to all complaints.

01:41:44.000 Yeah, comparatively, for sure.

01:41:45.000 It's interesting, too, when you're talking about this, the use of technology and how what you can do now with stem cells in comparison to the past, it's like this really exciting emerging time.

01:41:55.000 But similar, like, the use of Google Earth to discover these mounds and things.

01:42:00.000 Do you see what's going on in the Amazon now?

01:42:02.000 They're discovering evidence of civilizations that were just rumors and myths, like the Gold City, the ancient Gold City.

01:42:09.000 What is that movie that they're doing?

01:42:11.000 Lost City of Z. Lost City of Z, yes.

01:42:13.000 They're finding these established irrigation paths and city grids in the Amazon jungle.

01:42:22.000 Thousands and thousands of years old, and they don't know the origins.

01:42:25.000 They don't know who was there.

01:42:27.000 They don't know why they were constructed, what the culture was like, but this was all, at one point in time, just mythological.

01:42:34.000 And now they're realizing, like, no, no, no, this is history, and they've been told and passed down in these fables, and now we're understanding there's an actual There's a concrete, a physical grid, rather, that you can go and you can see.

01:42:46.000 No, these are real cities that did exist, and the jungle has sort of engulfed them.

01:42:51.000 It's taken over them.

01:42:52.000 It's amazing.

01:42:53.000 Yeah.

01:42:54.000 It's a thing, Google Earth.

01:42:55.000 Oh, it's incredible.

01:42:56.000 I mean, it's allowing...

01:42:57.000 And this is only step one.

01:42:59.000 I think Google Earth is going to give way to some sort of a magnetic resonance type thing where they're going to be able to look deep into the ground.

01:43:05.000 I think what we're seeing now is you're going to be able to...

01:43:07.000 Right now we're exploring the surface of the Earth and we're finding all these characteristics that, oh, this is a body.

01:43:14.000 Or this is a burial area.

01:43:16.000 This is a pathway that was probably irrigation.

01:43:19.000 But I think they're going to be able to come up with technology that allows you to do the same thing, but look deep into the ground.

01:43:26.000 And then I think you're going to be able to find all kinds of crazy shit.

01:43:29.000 The same way they can understand the complete topography of the bottom of the ocean now.

01:43:34.000 And if you look at some of those maps that show the ocean, it literally shows the depths at every stage.

01:43:39.000 I think you're going to be able to do that deep into the surface of the ground.

01:43:42.000 They're going to be able to discover all kinds of crazy stuff.

01:43:44.000 Someone keeps opening that door.

01:43:46.000 What are you saying?

01:43:47.000 We've got to get going.

01:43:48.000 This is why I don't allow people to come.

01:43:50.000 You're ruining the perfect goddamn conversation.

01:43:52.000 Boy, that's Ivan.

01:43:52.000 I know.

01:43:53.000 Ivan's a great guy.

01:43:54.000 He's your biggest fan.

01:43:55.000 I'm a big fan of him.

01:43:56.000 You've got some other commitments, I guess, huh?

01:43:58.000 I do.

01:43:59.000 Goddammit.

01:44:00.000 I'm selling a film.

01:44:01.000 I know.

01:44:02.000 Joe, you've got to go see it.

01:44:02.000 You like it.

01:44:03.000 Fuck, yeah, I'm going to go see it.

01:44:04.000 I love all your movies, man.

01:44:05.000 I'm a big fan.

01:44:06.000 Thank you.

01:44:06.000 I was really excited to have you in here.

01:44:08.000 So, is it out this weekend?

01:44:09.000 Not this weekend.

01:44:11.000 Next weekend.

01:44:12.000 So, that is Ivan.

01:44:14.000 Do you want to stick your head back in here?

01:44:15.000 No, Ivan's...

01:44:16.000 He's out there.

01:44:17.000 He's scared now.

01:44:17.000 You scared him off.

01:44:18.000 Oh, Ivan.

01:44:20.000 If it's not this weekend, it's next weekend.

01:44:22.000 Is that May the 12th?

01:44:24.000 It's the weekend after Guardians of the Galaxy.

01:44:26.000 Yes.

01:44:26.000 So I believe that is May the 12th, right?

01:44:29.000 Excited about it?

01:44:31.000 Yeah, I love the film.

01:44:32.000 I like it.

01:44:33.000 It's tough out there, though, brother.

01:44:34.000 I bet it is.

01:44:35.000 Tough.

01:44:36.000 You've got a crazy business.

01:44:37.000 When you decide, and I'll just leave you with this, when you decide, like, to commit to an idea, I'm sure you have a gang of ideas bouncing around your head, like, what makes you just go, all right, this is the one, let's run with it?

01:44:49.000 Tell you, it's changing, and it changes by the year.

01:44:52.000 My next movie is Aladdin.

01:44:54.000 Oh, really?

01:44:55.000 Yeah.

01:44:55.000 Like the magic lamp?

01:44:56.000 That's the one.

01:44:57.000 Really?

01:44:58.000 Yeah.

01:44:59.000 And in no small part, because you'll know you'll get a weekend.

01:45:03.000 Ah, right.

01:45:04.000 So that plays a little bit of a factor in your motivation.

01:45:07.000 Well, it has to.

01:45:08.000 You don't want to spend three years on a movie and no one hear about it.

01:45:10.000 Right.

01:45:11.000 Aladdin, though, by you would be very fascinating.

01:45:14.000 I hope so.

01:45:14.000 I'll find it...

01:45:15.000 You know, I like the idea of taking a sojourn into genres that I don't know anything about, really.

01:45:22.000 So has it kind of excited you, like, doing this King Arthur thing in this fantasy genre?

01:45:26.000 And has this sort of changed your expectations for possibly considering other...

01:45:31.000 Yeah, I mean, I sort of did English gangster films, and I went from that, and then I did Sherlock Holmes.

01:45:34.000 Don't stop doing those, though.

01:45:35.000 Your English gangster films are some of my favorite films ever.

01:45:38.000 No, no, no, I'm TV. This could be TV. This could be TV. We're lost at that now.

01:45:40.000 Because that's where it's gone, that sort of interesting stuff.

01:45:42.000 Like Netflix, HBO type stuff?

01:45:44.000 Yeah, that sort of stuff.

01:45:46.000 And then Man From Uncle, which is like a spy thing, and they jumped into the spy genre.

01:45:51.000 So, and you go, oh right, okay, I can go from this genre to that genre.

01:45:55.000 And that's exciting.

01:45:56.000 And I've got five kids.

01:45:57.000 And you've got five kids.

01:45:58.000 Five kids?

01:45:58.000 Yeah.

01:45:59.000 Wow.

01:46:00.000 Which means I'm familiar with Disney.

01:46:02.000 Right.

01:46:03.000 Of course.

01:46:05.000 So, yeah.

01:46:06.000 That world looks very attractive and challenging.

01:46:09.000 Awesome.

01:46:10.000 Guy Ritchie, you're a bad motherfucker.

01:46:12.000 Thank you, Joe.

01:46:12.000 I love having you in here.

01:46:13.000 Thank you.

01:46:14.000 It's been a great pleasure.

01:46:15.000 I've enjoyed it enormously.

01:46:16.000 Let's do it again.

01:46:17.000 Next time you're selling something, come on in, baby.

01:46:20.000 Thank you now.

01:46:20.000 Alright, folks.

01:46:21.000 That's it for the week.

01:46:22.000 We'll see you soon.

01:46:23.000 Bye.

01:46:23.000 Much love.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 05, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #956 - Guy Ritchie

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