In this episode, we discuss the history of chiropractic, pot, and the origin of the chiropractor. We also talk about how the original chiropractor, Dr. Daniel David Palmer, was a complete idiot and how he should have been kicked out of the business. We also get into a little bit about pot and how it should be used in medicine. We finish off the episode with a quick Q&A with our good friend, Jamie Rinella, who is a chiropractor and writer. If you like the podcast, please consider becoming a patron patron and leaving us a five star review on Apple Podcasts by clicking the bell button on the right side of the page. Thank you so much to Jamie for coming on the show, and we hope you enjoy listening to this episode. Stay tuned for Part 2 of this episode next week where we talk about marijuana and pot. Cheers! -Jon Sorrentino Jon & Jamie Don t forget to leave us a rating and review if you enjoyed this episode and/or have any thoughts or suggestions on how we can improve the podcast. or if you like what we did in the future episodes. We'll be looking out for the next episode on how to make the podcast even better. Jon and Jamie are working on a new podcast called "Chirotopia" and we'll be working on it in the next few weeks. Please be sure to stay tuned in next week for a new episode where we discuss chiropractractic and other things related to the chiropracting. Thanks for listening to the podcast! Jon talks about his journey with Dr. David Palmer's new book "Dr. David P. Palmer's book, "The Doctor Who Was Deaf". Jamie talks about how he started out as a chiropractist and went deaf. . Jon gives us some tips on how he got deaf. We hope you can relate to the book "Deaf." and talks about the origin story from the book he wrote about chiropractists. Jamie gives us a chance to be deaf and then talks about some of his chiropractics. and much more. (and how he's not being deaf, but not really deaf, so much so much more! Jamie also talks about what he's deaf and how to get better at it. How to be a better chiropractor? I hope you like this episode!
00:00:33.000And we got to talking and I said, look, that guy's got to do something about it right away because the more time you spend with an atrophied arm, the longer it takes to rehabilitate that.
00:00:43.000It's a pretty common injury with martial artists.
00:02:27.000And this is to all you people, and I've got a ton of messages from chiropractors that I'm sure are nice folks, and that are really upset because they like this podcast, and they're like, you know, you're shitting on my business, and you're saying...
00:02:41.000You have to understand, I'm sure a lot of you mean well, I'm sure a lot of you do well, I'm sure a lot of you try really hard to help your patients, and I'm sure a lot of you incorporate a lot of other stuff, like massage and cold laser and real science into your therapies,
00:02:58.000but the origin, the original guy who created chiropractic medicine was a complete, total bullshit artist.
00:03:30.000We had three editors, a fact checker, and our lawyer to make sure that we were bulletproof on it because we wanted to make sure that we didn't say anything that could get us sued, basically.
00:03:39.000And a lot of the information from this came directly from his book, from his own book.
00:03:44.000So we weren't taking anything out of context.
00:03:47.000One of the quotes on how chiropractic started came directly from the book.
00:03:52.000And he, after cracking a half-deaf person's or a deaf person's spine, depending on their That was what Jamie just had pulled up in that article.
00:04:01.000Pull that back up, Jamie, so you could see that.
00:04:03.000He claimed that he cracked a deaf person's back and restored his hearing.
00:04:08.000Now, a couple of things could have happened here.
00:04:10.000Either, one, there was no actual medical consent given because this person was deaf, so I'm not sure how that came about.
00:04:18.000Two, he didn't actually restore the hearing because there are no nerves in the spine connected to your hearing.
00:04:24.000Or, you know, three, this guy is just lying.
00:04:27.000Like, there are a couple, you know, and we're not sure what happened.
00:04:30.000But there are still, you know, chiropractic could have done a few things with this.
00:04:34.000They could have disavowed what happened and said, you know, we still have a system by which we can try to relieve pain through spinal manipulation.
00:04:40.000But no, there are still articles out today from chiropractors today That try to claim that, yes indeed, he did restore hearing.
00:04:49.000Like, no, could you guys just maybe back down on some of the nuttier claims?
00:04:53.000Because there is some minor evidence that you can relieve lower back pain with spinal manipulation.
00:05:00.000And there are chiros that are trying to be science-based with this.
00:05:04.000But the history of it is so ridiculous, and they try to back down on nothing.
00:07:09.000They're doing some massage along with what they're doing.
00:07:11.000That's a problem because massage actually helps.
00:07:14.000There are studies that show people who go to a massage therapist or a massage practitioner Tend to get more relief than people who go to a chiropractor.
00:07:29.000Those are your science-based practitioners.
00:07:32.000Chiropractic, it started out of bullshit and it stayed directly in bullshit.
00:07:36.000Here's the thing, there's no reason that anybody would have, from this guy, from this one original guy who created it, this guy who's a magnetic healer, who came up with this, somehow or another it slipped through the cracks.
00:10:04.000Now, one of the biggest chiropractic schools in the country is Palmer Chiropractic College, and it's named for D.D. Palmer, the guy who launched this bevy of bullshit on us.
00:11:16.000They say, from manipulating the spine, because the spine has, you know, within those bones, they have the spinal column, and the nerves control everything in the body.
00:11:25.000And so from stimulating the nerves, you can give the infant all the immunity it needs to not need their vaccinations.
00:11:35.000Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
00:11:41.000Who's claiming that by manipulating a baby, they don't need vaccines?
00:11:45.000I understand this is not all chiropractors, but the American Chiropractic Association, this is fairly well cited within the article, the American Chiropractic Association, they are generally anti-drug.
00:11:55.000They want to use the least amount of medical interventions possible.
00:11:59.000And chiropractors are not, in most states in this country, they are not cleared...
00:12:05.000To either prescribe or give vaccinations.
00:12:07.000So if you can manage to get a family to come into you for pretty much all of their medical needs, that increases your bottom line and it stops, you know, and you can just say, we can do everything for you.
00:12:18.000But of course a chiropractor isn't cleared for vaccinations.
00:12:24.000And I mean, there's one state in this country, I believe it was Wisconsin, where they were trying to get chiropractors to be able to give pre-sports physicals.
00:12:31.000And in some cases, the pre-sports physical is the only time all year when a student will see a doctor.
00:14:39.000I don't want to say a failure of the medical system, but it's just a sign of where we are now.
00:14:42.000So think about the number of people who have sent us anecdotes saying, you know, I was in miserable pain and my chiropractor was the only thing that worked.
00:14:50.000And it's like maybe you needed to get to physical therapy for longer term pain.
00:14:56.000But these people that are still going to their chiros...
00:14:58.000It means they're still in pain and they should go to a physical therapist for, you know, a couple months of therapy that will eventually strengthen their backs and take care of those issues and, you know, get a massage.
00:15:09.000But they're going to their chiro because medical has not said, you know, we don't have a tricorder that can scan you, show the exact thing and say, here's the exact medicine, drug and thing that will fix you.
00:15:18.000It's kind of, and I hate to use this term, but it's out of the failures of the medical system that something like this So we're not perfect at medicine yet, and that's why alternative medicine swoops in with bullshit.
00:15:30.000Well, it's just a matter of innovation.
00:15:32.000It's like there's a certain level that the medical community is at right now.
00:15:36.000It's pretty staggering what they're capable of, but it's still growing and learning, and we're in a constant state of progress.
00:15:43.000But what's shocking to me is how far this medical healer or magnetic healer's quack idea got.
00:15:52.000I just thought it was based on something.
00:16:31.000How are insurance companies paying for it?
00:16:33.000There was some lobbying, and I don't think I put this into the article, but there was a lot of lobbying from chiropractors in, I believe, the 70s that pushed the American Medical Association and the insurance companies as a whole to kind of accept them as being medically...
00:16:49.000And that's part of why more and more insurance companies now will cover them and accept them.
00:16:54.000And even though a lot of doctors won't refer you, they'll kind of be like, well, you can look into Cairo.
00:17:03.000There's still, from a lot of doctors, pushback.
00:17:07.000But there's a little bit more coverage now, and it's because of a lot of lobbying in the 70s.
00:17:11.000Now, if chiropractors do have a center or a treatment center or whatever it is, and they have a bunch of different methods that they employ, this is not saying that those other methods might not give you some relief.
00:17:23.000But the actual cracking of the necks and the cracking of the back, there's virtually no evidence that that heals anything or stops or promotes your immune system functioning better or anything like that.
00:17:40.000Like, the big thing is that, I mean, if they were just claiming we can reduce your back pain, if that was the only thing they claimed, I probably wouldn't have written the article, you know?
00:17:51.000But what they're claiming is that they can fix all of your health by realigning these vertebral subluxations, which have never been proven to exist.
00:18:01.000What are they doing when your back pops?
00:18:11.000I don't think realigning is the right word, but they're moving around your back in a way that it kind of naturally moves.
00:18:20.000Because you can kind of move and twist and your back will pop.
00:18:23.000They're doing some manipulation of things that kind of naturally happen to a spine with, you know, with a tiny little bit, I mean, tiny bit of degeneration with age.
00:18:32.000I think, like, I'm not exactly the right expert to explain this type of thing.
00:18:36.000An osteopath would be a better person to explain this because there are people who are a little better at spinal manipulation than a chiropractor, which is a DO, an osteopath.
00:18:46.000So in this country, we have MDs and DOs, and they both can practice medicine.
00:20:20.000Yeah, and I think it's funny the things that chiropractors add into it, because one of the things that I went into in this article, because we really like diving deep on some of the things that we investigate, and I'll admit I'm biased when I go in,
00:20:36.000because I go after a lot of Kind of some of the naturally things.
00:22:05.000A lot of people have been saying, yeah, you can't do that.
00:22:08.000And I mean, this is why I like the editors I'm working with now quite a bit.
00:22:12.000The problem with this whole clinic thing, though, is that they don't have to have any sort of background in kinesiology or in physical therapy or in any of these things.
00:22:22.000And so they incorporate all these other modalities, all these other methods of healing you.
00:22:26.000But they don't have to have a background and education in those things.
00:22:30.000And they're calling themselves a doctor.
00:22:31.000There is one thing I've heard of, and this is why I'd say don't go to a chiropractor because you don't know what you're going to walk into.
00:22:39.000But I have heard a couple of times, this being the case, where a chiropractor, at first, they go to school for physical therapy.
00:22:47.000And then they find they can't open their own clinic, even if they've got like an MBA and a physical therapy background.
00:22:52.000They're like, how do I open my own clinic?
00:22:54.000And they realize if they just go to school for chiropractic, they can do the physical therapy work they want to and offer a spinal manipulation on the side.
00:23:02.000How long does it take to get a degree in chiropractic?
00:23:05.000How long does it take to get a doctor?
00:23:13.000If it's created by a guy who's a quack, what the fuck would they possibly be teaching you for four years?
00:23:19.000They do learn some anatomy, but it's like they also learn some, you know, bullshit along with it.
00:23:24.000So I'm like, I wonder, and I mean, this isn't, I get it, this isn't all chiropractors, obviously, but like, I know, and it's hard to figure out which one you're going to walk into that's going to be a bullshit artist and not.
00:23:35.000So like, I did want, like, this wasn't a point I was going to bring up in an article that was going to have a specific point of view, but like, I know there are some out there that say, I want to give people physical therapy.
00:23:48.000I want to get them out of here in less pain so that if they injure themselves again, they know they can come back to me and trust me with their spine and also give them some relief while we're fixing them.
00:23:59.000So, you know, this is a thing that happens, but I don't think it's all the time.
00:24:02.000I mean, it's clearly not all the time.
00:24:04.000So, you know, you're going to have some really moral people in every field and you're going to have some really fucked up ones in every field.
00:24:10.000Like we were one of the things we touched on in the article were these very social media savvy people.
00:24:16.000And this is something that drives me fucking crazy.
00:24:18.000You have to hunt and peck through their websites to find that they say that they're a chiropractor.
00:25:12.000But the specialty for which you're going to study the adrenal glands isn't even a specialty that chiropractic has.
00:25:18.000So it's like if you want to know about your...
00:25:20.000If you're having issues with that, like it's like...
00:25:23.000The things that chiropractors seem to harp on right now are a lot with immunology or a lot with...
00:25:29.000Sorry, just having a complete blonde moment on this.
00:25:32.000But there are specialties that chiropractors seem to harp on a lot lately.
00:25:36.000And it seems to be the type of things that are very nebulous and very hard to nail down when someone's having an issue with it.
00:25:43.000And these are things that chiropractors just don't have the training in.
00:25:47.000So essentially someone's putting up a health website and they're claiming to be a doctor and they're offering all this advice on diet and all these different things.
00:25:55.000But when you get to what is their degree in, it's not a real doctor, it's a chiropractor.
00:26:03.000The type of advice they're giving is take all these herbs, eat an alkaline diet, which is, again, bullshit.
00:26:11.000One of my favorite things with the alkaline diet is they're always like, drink lemon water.
00:28:09.000Well, if anything, the reduction in calories would probably be good because you'd lose some body fat, and you'd probably have less inflammation.
00:29:50.000She's discovered something about stickers.
00:29:52.000If you take these stickers, and if they're made with the right material, you just stick them on your body in the right places, and they, in quotes, rebalance the energy frequency in our bodies.
00:30:02.000They're made out of NASA spacesuit material.
00:30:06.000NASA said it was a load of BS. But hold on a second.
00:30:16.000She was an Iron Man, and that's science.
00:30:18.000It says, Gwyneth Paltrow's goop website, a lifestyle business, lifestyle, which sells all things Gwyneth, advertised these stickers are using NASA spacesuit material, which presumably was the source of their magic-hewing properties.
00:32:10.000Look, this is a very controversial subject, right?
00:32:15.000Like anything that's not regulated by the FDA, like I'm a part of, in the interest of full disclosure, part of the company Onnit, which is we sell supplements.
00:32:24.000But the supplements that we sell, we control Everything that we sell, so we make sure that we do testing on it, the supplements that we sell like this shit, AlphaBrain, did two double-blind placebo-controlled studies at Boston Center for Memory that showed increase in verbal memory,
00:32:41.000increase in a bunch of different things.
00:32:54.000I'm curious about them just because I haven't looked into them enough and I know they're new-ish into the supplement market.
00:33:02.000So I kind of want to look into them and I don't know enough to comment.
00:33:05.000They're essentially the building blocks for human neurotransmitters, which your body uses, the nutrients your body uses to make human neurotransmitters.
00:33:12.000There's nothing woo-woo about it, nothing crazy, it's all backed by science.
00:33:15.000But when we started putting them out, there was a lot of people that were claiming bullshit, you're selling snake oil.
00:33:20.000So we had to control these studies and we had to, you know, We pay for them at the Boston Center for Memory.
00:33:27.000We also had to make sure that we put a full 100% money-back guarantee on any of the supplements where you don't have to return them, just say they didn't work for you.
00:33:37.000We're trying to make it as clean as possible.
00:34:40.000But these things are, like, you know, it's really weird.
00:34:45.000Like, I'm not a big fan of the government stepping in and, you know, regulating everything, because I know there's a lot of supplements that actually do work, and for them to get passed by the FDA, you have to go through these exhaustive tests.
00:35:24.000And after some independent testing, you'll find that some packages don't have what they claim in there.
00:35:32.000It was something like a third of supplement packages didn't have any of the ingredients in there, or they had less of it.
00:35:39.000And I'm like, that's not good for the consumer.
00:35:41.000So I wish there was a way to regulate it a little bit better, at least.
00:35:45.000I just don't think it should be the government.
00:35:46.000I think there should be some sort of an independent company that works in a very scientific way where you can hire them to test your stuff and run these tests.
00:36:00.000You can show, there's got to be some way to show that there's no collusion, that there's no bribery, that, you know, everything's above board.
00:36:09.000I don't know what the fuck that would be.
00:36:24.000They sell OxyContin and Fentanyl, and people are prescribing shit that takes forever for people to get off, and has massive addiction rates.
00:36:32.000Things like Fentanyl have some very limited purposes.
00:36:36.000I've been put on Fentanyl for pre-surgery before.
00:38:28.000Are you looking for B12? I want to make sure I'm getting B12. The other question is, how much of a vitamin do you need?
00:38:34.000And I think that people buy vitamins indiscriminately because we really don't...
00:38:38.000The average person doesn't need to take a multivitamin in the day if they're eating a healthy diet because you get pretty much what you need on a daily basis.
00:38:46.000If you're not somebody with an absorption issue, if you're not somebody with any dietary issues, you're generally getting what you need out of your diet.
00:39:26.000I've found out deficiencies in niacin, deficiencies in vitamin D... No, I've been before, but that was right when I was diagnosed with celiac disease, so I was deficient on a few things.
00:39:37.000So that's an issue with wheat, and you have an issue absorbing food, right?
00:40:32.000Celia can show up or the symptoms of it.
00:40:34.000You always have the underlying physiology and all of a sudden symptoms can just show up out of the blue.
00:40:41.000So it's like lying dormant and then all of a sudden it becomes active?
00:40:43.000I had a bunch of health issues to kind of show up in my 20s.
00:40:47.000I'm like, all right, I got to start taking care of myself.
00:40:50.000Started going to the gym, ran a few marathons, lost a lot of weight.
00:40:53.000Like, even when I was suddenly at a healthy weight, it was like I couldn't stop losing weight because my intestines just weren't absorbing anything.
00:41:01.000And that's not a thing you see coming.
00:41:58.000Your body converts everything in some way, shape, or form into usable fuel, and the usable fuel is eventually glucose or NADPH. Everything in your body gets converted to sugar when you use it for fuel.
00:42:10.000But if you eat a piece of salmon or if you eat a bowl of pasta, there's a very different reaction how your body absorbs these two things.
00:42:17.000Yes, this is true, because all calories aren't the same.
00:42:21.000Right, they don't both get absorbed to sugar.
00:42:22.000But avoiding gluten and switching over to, say, all rice, that's not going to change all that much in your body in terms of the biochemical mischief, unless you have a gluten allergy.
00:42:42.000But there's also levels to that too, right?
00:42:45.000Like there's some people where it's like minorly irritating and there's some people that have extreme issues with it.
00:42:50.000Well, here's at this point, and this is why I always say at this point in our scientific knowledge, because scientific knowledge can evolve and we can learn new things.
00:42:57.000You know, at one point, the thing that started off the whole gluten trend was a kind of poorly designed study where they had a small sample size of people and they designed it just to test, you know, gluten versus a diet without gluten.
00:43:11.000And they came to the conclusion that about 20% of people, just based on this very small study, had a bad reaction to gluten.
00:43:21.000I came in saying they had stomach problems.
00:43:24.000Now, they looked at it and said, afterwards, the scientists all sat back and said, why were only about 1% of people having celiac disease and then all of a sudden 20% of people are running around like gluten's making their dick fly off?
00:43:40.000So they made a better-designed study, and they took out common...
00:43:44.000They did, you know, kind of double-blind, did a better-designed study to say, we're going to take out all these other causes of gastrointestinal distress, and we're going to try to make this double-blind.
00:43:53.000And they figured out it was the FODMAPs.
00:43:55.000There were these short-chain oligosaccharides that can pull water into the gut and cause some gastrointestinal distress.
00:44:01.000And it was really closer to between, like, 1% and about 5% of people that were having any issues with gluten.
00:45:03.000So what they figured out is that, or this is the going theory right now, gluten can cause a small reaction in the stomach where you produce this protein called zonulin that can cause an increase in inflammation.
00:45:17.000This seems to be, and this is what I, this has only been one study that I've read on it.
00:45:23.000So there's a chance that people might be in the two to five percent that can't handle it because of that.
00:45:28.000It could be another component of the wheat, barley, rye that's causing it.
00:45:34.000But gluten in and of itself, it's not, you know, it's unless you are one of those people that has an actual reaction to it, perfectly fine.
00:45:42.000Go on to have, you know, go have a sandwich.
00:46:55.000I'll shoot you the article after this.
00:47:00.000It was, God, I need to find this article, but it was, they could do this and they were tracking how registered dietitians versus, you know, the average Joe would, you know, could count, because they were, you know, count down how many calories you had in a day.
00:47:14.000A registered dietitian who, you know, really well trained on dietetic type stuff versus average person counting their calories.
00:47:20.000The dietitian was off by about 200 calories.
00:47:23.000Average person was off by about 500. About what they were guessing?
00:47:34.000If you're trying to lose weight, and you're the average person, and you're off by 500 calories, and you're supposed to, in the course of a week, to lose one pound, you're supposed to have a 500-calorie caloric deficit.
00:49:45.000It's definitely not good for your body when they're in that performance zone.
00:49:49.000It's so weird that that's like what we really enjoy looking at, though.
00:49:53.000The rest of the year, though, they eat, and I mean, my trainer is a bodybuilder, and it's like what he has me on for weight loss isn't that crazy.
00:50:01.000It's about 1,600 calories a day, a fairly good Okay balance of proteins, carbs, and fats.
00:50:09.000At first he had me on a much higher amount of carbs.
00:50:31.000He's like, let's go down another couple hundred.
00:50:34.000It's, you know, and the way they started out with is always, you know, your weight times 10 and then they bust up the, you know, carbs, proteins, fats from there.
00:50:41.000And, you know, if you need to adjust, go from, you know, go from there.
00:50:45.000And it's like I started with lifting because I, you know, because I've screwed up my joints so badly from the amount of running I've done that I'm like, all right, I will try weightlifting.
00:52:27.000And making sure that my core and my spine are very strong.
00:52:31.000And that's something that kind of gets ignored by a lot of people that have back issues.
00:52:36.000It's like one of the reasons why you probably have a back issue, whether it's a herniated disc or a bulging disc, is that Your back is not strong enough to sustain whatever load you're putting on it, whatever exercise you're doing, whatever movement you're doing that's causing it to pop out of place.
00:52:52.000The issue is most likely that you are not strong enough.
00:52:55.000And a lot of that comes from a sedentary lifestyle, comes from sitting at a desk all the time, comes from poor posture.
00:53:01.000There's a variety of different factors that are not addressed by chiropractors or by other people.
00:53:06.000And if they are addressed by a chiropractor, well, that's one good thing that they're telling you.
00:53:10.000I mean, it still doesn't take away from where this whole thing started from.
00:53:14.000Yeah, and I mean, it's not always the case that back injuries come from that.
00:53:17.000Like, sometimes it's just you did, like, your disc was going to degenerate.
00:53:24.000Like, my boyfriend did nothing to screw up his back, and just a disc started degenerating, and he was a rock climber, and there was no known injury.
00:55:00.000Yeah, well, they've got some really promising results, apparently.
00:55:02.000And so they've just started it within the last six to eight months.
00:55:05.000Yeah, I mean, like, the biggest issue I have is that I have a—and I mean, it's not a bad enough case of scoliosis where I need surgery or a back brace.
00:55:16.000So it's like I'm—my big thing I'm doing is, all right, if I can lift and keep my back strong, it will stop me from having surgery eventually.
00:55:22.000And back surgery is just almost never a good thing to hear because they're always— Like, when you fix something surgically, there are just almost always complications, especially with your back.
00:55:33.000So I'm like, if I can keep rods out of my back, I'll be very happy.
00:55:36.000Well, you know, I've had some surgeries that were very effective.
00:55:40.000Both of my knees have been reconstructed, and it turned out great.
00:55:43.000But I have had friends that have had some back issues, especially fusions, that have been a big, big nightmare.
00:55:49.000Yeah, that's what I'd probably end up with, because, like, middle of my back, it just kind of goes...
00:55:54.000And I'm like, this is not something I... I've been told, it's funny, I love yoga, and I've been told it's not good for people with Ehlers-Danlos, so I'm like, I don't...
00:56:07.000And it's like, that's like, but there are still some yoga moves I do just at the end of my workouts because they feel great to stretch out my back, and they feel like they strengthen my core quite a bit.
00:56:17.000Well, why do they say it's bad for you?
00:56:19.000Because of how hypermobile I am, I'll do downward dog and it doesn't even feel like it stretches me because I'm so flexy to start with.
00:56:31.000That doesn't make any sense, but you're still strengthening all those muscles that support your spine.
00:57:25.000Well, I mean, there's a bunch of stretches, but obviously there's a bunch of things that do stretch your body out, but there's a bunch of things that are just strengthening exercises.
00:57:34.000No, it's like, here's the thing, you have a really good point, and this is just what I've been told from a doctor who, in all honesty, I don't know how well he knows Ehlers-Danlos because it's a rare disorder.
00:58:17.000Like, when people say don't do yoga, I always think they think of somebody as, like, bending over and touching the back of their head onto their feet.
00:58:23.000I think the reason is because they know how flexible I started at, so they think I'm going to pull something out more because of how much I'll push the condition that's already there.
00:59:08.000So my editor, and this is the editor that I worked with at Gawker, at Cosmo, and now she's at the outline, and I love writing there.
00:59:17.000And we had talked about doing one on chiros for ages, and we got to the outline, and it was like, what do we have on the table for next one?
01:00:10.000And it's funny because I'll get into that in a minute.
01:00:15.000I learned a lot doing this because I didn't realize that D.D. Palmer, the guy who invented it, He got most of his information from doing seances with a dead doctor.
01:00:38.000And nobody in chiropractic questions this.
01:00:41.000When they go to actual, you were telling me this before the show and I stopped you.
01:00:46.000I said, let's talk about this during the show.
01:00:47.000When you said you've talked to chiropractors that were in the middle of chiropractic school and they read about this stuff and they were like, what in the fuck?
01:00:55.000It's sort of like that, did you ever see Going Clear, that Scientology documentary?
01:00:59.000Yeah, but like when Haggis gets to a certain stage of the Scientology where they give him the written notes by L. Ron Hubbard and he's like, what in the fuck?
01:01:07.000And you're $300,000 in and you can't leave.
01:01:10.000So I got two emails from chiropractors.
01:01:13.000And I couldn't put their names out publicly.
01:01:16.000But I got two emails from chiropractors and I checked in and I'm like, these are indeed chiropractors.
01:01:43.000They were like, which part of this is bullshit?
01:01:46.000Do you guys believe in the vertebral subluxation theory?
01:01:49.000And they're like, no, subluxations don't exist.
01:01:51.000If you want to do this ethically, just take people in who have injuries, try to do some physical therapy, get them stronger, and get them out in as few sessions as you can.
01:02:02.000Yeah, and it's funny because I'll occasionally pass by a chiropractic clinic where I see them saying back injuries, work injuries, sports, physical therapy, and I'm like, okay, if I ever wanted to go to a chiropractor because I'd lost my mind and couldn't find a physical therapist, that's the type I would go to.
01:02:18.000But if you ever see them advertising magic crystals and aura healing, fucking run!
01:03:30.000And you did have some people that you talked to that were chiropractors that were in the middle of it and they realized it was bullshit and they had to stay.
01:04:58.000There's a bunch of people that are also doing the same thing and they just kind of get caught up in the momentum of this idea.
01:05:03.000I think they hear it from a bunch of people who they think are experts, like they're teachers, and they're going, no, this is accepted, so we're going to take it.
01:05:10.000It's like, you know what, if you, like, if I saw people in science, like, because I promote a lot of things that, you know, we might disagree on, but, you know, I promote a lot of ideas in science that I've seen the evidence for, and I've seen a lot of it.
01:06:21.000And this is where he got a lot of shit was that he said, I have nothing to do with Monsanto.
01:06:27.000And, like, I think if he just said, you know what, they fund my communication program, but they don't have anything to do with my research...
01:06:34.000I think people still would have been mad, but I think people would have been far less mad.
01:06:39.000And I feel so bad that he went through everything with that.
01:08:00.000And some of these pesticides include pesticides like rotenone and the pyrethrums.
01:08:04.000And also, if you're familiar with BT corn, the BT toxin is also used in organic farming.
01:08:11.000Because it's a naturally occurring toxin, it can be used and sprayed topically on organic produce.
01:08:19.000So a lot of these, the things that we think of as just conventional farming practices, definitely use in organic farming.
01:08:26.000It doesn't make it any better or worse.
01:08:28.000It just, in a lot of cases, it's a little more expensive, partially because of the certification process and partially because it uses older farming techniques that need, you know, a little more land, that type of stuff.
01:08:38.000It also uses till farming practices that, you know, digs up the ground a bit more and can release a little more CO2. So in general, I tend to, oh, here we go.
01:09:07.000The USDA National Organic Program defines organic as follows.
01:09:12.000Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations.
01:09:22.000Organic meat, poultry, and eggs and dairy products are made from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones.
01:09:27.000Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides.
01:09:32.000Fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge bioengineering or ionizing radiation.
01:09:39.000Before a product can be labeled organic, a government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards.
01:09:52.000Now, the one thing on there that I'll disagree with with their first paragraph, as they say, without the use of pesticides, in the second paragraph, it says organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides.
01:10:03.000You see that slight, little sleight of hand?
01:10:06.000Well, one of them is theirs, and the other one is USDA. Exactly.
01:12:37.000There is a little bit of truth that sells the lie, is what I will give this.
01:12:42.000Because, you know, I used to work with bulk quantities of pesticides at my last lab, and that was kind of what sealed the deal for me, that these, when they're in your food, are not going to hurt you.
01:12:52.000Because the amount of testing we had to go through and the amount of regulation, I think regulation in this case is a good thing, because it will stop a bad pesticide from making it to market.
01:13:05.000I don't want anyone's child to ever get hurt from something that me or another, like I don't work there anymore, but you know, that I had any work in getting on the market.
01:13:15.000I don't ever want that to be the case.
01:13:18.000But once upon a time, the pesticides we had on the market were much less targeted to hurting the weeds and could hurt people too, like arsenicals.
01:13:26.000Sulfuric acid, those were early pesticides.
01:13:29.000Paris green, totally toxic, especially to the farmers and even to the farm equipment.
01:13:34.000The stuff we have now, far less toxic.
01:13:37.000When you say far less, though, is it toxic?
01:14:21.000But the one we used before Roundup was, in terms of the LD50, the lethal dose for about 50% of the population, it was 10 times higher than Roundup.
01:15:39.000But this toxicity issue when it comes to Roundup or when it comes to any sort of pesticide, when you're talking about herbicides, herbicides are what kills the plants, right?
01:16:06.000Roundup is controversial, and I think the reason that it became controversial is because people heard, all right, you have to genetically modify the plant so that the Roundup doesn't kill the plant, and it's this whole thing just to make money for Monsanto, and how dare you make money!
01:16:20.000And I think that was why people got...
01:16:27.000It's a newer technology and it kind of made people a little aware of farming for the first time.
01:16:36.000I go to farming conferences a lot of times to talk about how to communicate agriculture and I'll sit down and ask farmers, What do you plant?
01:16:52.000And do you buy from people other than Monsanto?
01:16:54.000And that handful of questions will tell me...
01:16:57.000I mean, I wish I had more videos of this, but there's a video at some point on my site with two farmers who buy from Monsanto and buy from other companies.
01:17:07.000And one of the reasons I ask that is because there's a rumor on the internet that if you buy from Monsanto, you can only buy from Monsanto.
01:17:24.000That people are dying of cancer from just being a Roundup.
01:17:31.000And recently they found that one of the reports that went through the IARC, the The place that declares things cancerous on their group 12A2B cancer classifications, one of the reports was falsified that declared Roundup cancerous.
01:18:00.000Because of a little bit of suspicion around it, because it's been, people have kicked around that it's causing cancer or, you know, that your spleen to turn radioactive for, you know, forever.
01:18:13.000Where it just becomes one of the things that people talk about in terms of conspiracy theories and...
01:18:18.000It gets put into the public sphere so much that people start to believe it.
01:18:21.000And here's the thing, if I saw firm evidence that Roundup had caused issues, I would say right away, just get rid of it, take it off the market.
01:18:29.000And I keep on not seeing firm evidence of it.
01:18:32.000There was a study, there's this group, Moms Across America, and I always get my scientific information from mom groups on the internet.
01:18:42.000But this group decided to do a breast milk study to see if Roundup accumulated in breast milk.
01:18:47.000And the way the study was done was they just had women indiscriminately send in containers of breast milk to them, and they declared the amount of Roundup to be ridiculously high in the breast milk.
01:19:02.000And I'm like, do they just tell women to spray pump bottles of I've wound up into these containers and then test it.
01:19:10.000But it turned out, and this is just from knowing how analytical techniques work, like I used to design the techniques by which we extracted, you know, target pesticides from a matrix and, you know, analyze them on our big overpriced machinery.
01:19:23.000But a woman who is a breast milk researcher out of the University of Washington was like, this doesn't seem right.
01:19:31.000So she designed An experiment to test if Roundup was accumulating in breast milk, and she had it verified by an independent lab.
01:19:40.000And they tested women specifically who worked in agriculture, and she had their breast milk tested specifically on days where they were spraying Roundup, and there was nothing found.
01:19:50.000Yeah, but that's someone who's not necessarily eating the food.
01:19:52.000That's someone who's working with the food, or working with Roundup, right?
01:19:55.000And you would expect that if it was being sprayed...
01:20:09.000If you're getting it from people's breast milk, and those people say, there's Roundup in my breast milk, and I've been eating genetically modified crops.
01:20:17.000Well, the other question is, if these are the people that are following Moms Across America, and their whole thing is that Roundup is the devil...
01:20:24.000So you think that they're falsifying evidence?
01:20:26.000I think that it was not a well-controlled experiment, and it would be interesting to see how the experiment would come out if the person who runs Moms Across America, Zen Honeycutt, would...
01:20:41.000How it would look if Zen were to look in on every step of the process with Dr. Shelley McGuire to see that these people ate food that should have been sprayed with Roundup and worked in the field, and then at the end to see if their breast milk came out with nothing in it.
01:21:03.000There'd be more likely to be some sort of conspiratorial collusion with people that actually work in farms that use Roundup rather than someone who's just checking their breast milk.
01:21:15.000Wouldn't you think that if someone's trying to prove that Roundup isn't showing up in breast milk and you've got a bunch of people that they're living relies on using Roundup, Well, the farm workers themselves, they'd want to be safe, right?
01:21:27.000And I say that as someone who's worked at a pesticide company, and when I worked there, I mean, I was just an analytical chemist.
01:21:33.000I'm not someone who had any investment in keeping that company safe from being yelled at.
01:21:38.000I wanted to be safe from the stuff I was working with.
01:21:41.000Right, but I found it weird that you feel like there's some sort of conspiracy with these moms that are checking their breast milk, but you don't think there might possibly be some shenanigans involved in the people that actually need Roundup to make a living.
01:21:53.000No, I understand what you're saying, for sure.
01:21:55.000But part of the reason why I think that Dr. Maguire would have conducted a better study was, number one, independently verified.
01:22:04.000Number two, knows how to do specimen collection evidence.
01:22:10.000And number three, monitored and independently verified from an outside lab.
01:23:23.000No, they found the amounts varied, and they were so high.
01:23:28.000Almost like somebody dripped some in there.
01:23:29.000Yeah, it was suspicious, and that's why I was like, that was why I didn't buy it.
01:23:34.000The other thing is they used a technique, an analytical technique that was used for water, and that's why I'm like, this is not, like, not all techniques work for all chemical matrices.
01:23:45.000So that That's another reason why a different lab was probably better equipped to handle it, one specifically that analyzes breast milk.
01:23:55.000The other thing is you know that the other lab kind of had a bias going in because their whole thing is how Roundup is bad.
01:24:03.000So a lab that's like, I just want to know if moms are being harmed, if there's something in the breast milk, that seems like a lab that went in Just wanting to know.
01:24:13.000The other lab went in saying, I hate Roundup.
01:24:16.000So if Roundup had been found in the test that Dr. Maguire's lab had done, I would have happily accepted those results because it almost wouldn't...
01:24:28.000It would have surprised me, not in the least, if it had been found.
01:24:32.000But I was kind of glad that there was nothing there because it means that, you know, babies aren't getting a concentrated dose of this.
01:24:39.000Just because, you know, you don't want, you know, extraneous chemicals going into the food supply.
01:24:43.000So were they only testing people that worked in these farms?
01:24:46.000Was that the idea with the second test?
01:25:22.000We can have a quick peek after it for Dr. Shelley McGuire breast milk roundup study.
01:25:28.000Yeah, the whole thing seems a little weird to me.
01:25:30.000It's weird that one group tests high, one group tests not at all.
01:25:36.000It is, I'm going to say, it is easy to screw up a study using, if you're not sure the parameters you're supposed to use in an analytical, in a chemical analysis thing, because you can have interfering species that come up with the same peaks at the same time.
01:25:55.000So the other thing is, like I said, the biggest thing is we don't know the collection parameters for the one that Mom Across America did.
01:26:04.000Yeah, I mean, the other thing is Dr. McGuire was doing it through a university, and she could have been in a lot of trouble if she'd falsified data or done a test that was purposefully misleading.
01:26:54.000And then there's a board that votes on it from time to time if somebody wants to bring something up and disagree that it shouldn't be on that list.
01:27:28.000That might otherwise infest organic crops, especially fruit.
01:27:31.000So they put some certain smells to freak bugs out.
01:27:36.000Likewise, vaccines for animals are important disease prevention tools against many infectious diseases, blah blah blah, especially since antibiotic therapy is prohibited in livestock.
01:27:46.000I'm picturing an anti-vaxxer staying away from organic produce because they vaccinated it against bees.
01:27:52.000Well, you could always grow your own food, folks, you know, and not put anything on it.
01:27:56.000But I think large-scale domestic agriculture, if you're talking about these gigantic fields, nothing could be less natural.
01:28:03.000It's not normal to have a thousand acres of corn.
01:29:14.000You can now, in all caps, bold letters, boost your body energy signature, all bold, by simply placing this Digestive Solution TM Energy Card under your food plate.
01:29:36.000The energy card has a magnetic strip embedded in the back that holds digitally enhanced information that once your food or beverage comes in contact with it, the energy is delivered immediately to the food and beverage, thereby boosting the energy to your food to maximize the nutrition you consume.
01:29:54.000You fucking criminals should be in jail.
01:30:21.000Our engineers have achieved the correct ratio response of frequency signatures through a technology that matches the same energy you receive from the nutrients you get from the food you eat and drink.
01:30:34.000You know this guy's wearing toe shoes when he wrote this, right?
01:32:14.000Twitter was an angry- I'm still getting angry tweets.
01:32:17.000From people that use it, or from chiropractors themselves?
01:32:22.000Some chiropractors and a lot of people who love chiropractic and are mad at me, because I think people think I'm calling them stupid for using chiropractic, but I'm like, no, you got...
01:32:43.000And I felt kind of bad because a good friend of mine, like she like after she gave birth, she had like a severe enough injury that she could barely walk and a chiropractor.
01:32:52.000Basically from massaging the area, got her up and walking.
01:32:56.000And the thing she said to me was, I'm tired of being called a lemming moron.
01:33:01.000I'm like, number one, I never insulted people who used chiropractic.
01:33:04.000And number two, I definitely didn't use those two words.
01:33:07.000And I think people got the impression that I was calling everyone who used chiropractors dumb.
01:33:12.000And it's like, that's never the point of my writing.
01:33:15.000It's like, you're not the moron for falling for this.
01:33:18.000They're the assholes for selling it to you.
01:33:21.000I don't even know if a lot of them are assholes because I don't know if a lot of them have even looked into this.
01:33:26.000You know, I've talked to some chiropractors about this stuff that's been going on over the last couple weeks since your article and since I did my podcast since we've talked about it several times.
01:33:35.000I just don't think they understand the origins of this.
01:33:38.000Or that the stuff they're selling isn't considered scientifically valid.
01:33:42.000If you're a kid and you're getting out of high school and you're going into college and you want to get involved in something therapeutic and chiropractic medicine seems like a good thing and you start going to chiropractic school, you might not even know.
01:33:55.000And I really do sympathize with a lot of chiropractors who are out there that have emailed me like, hey man, what you're saying could potentially destroy my business.
01:34:06.000I understand and I sympathize, but you've got to understand that if I knew about this and I didn't talk about it, that would be more horrible.
01:34:16.000I have a responsibility if I find something out like this, like the guy who invented it is a fucking quack and a magnetic healer and you're not really going to medical school, there's a responsibility that you have to say something about that.
01:34:29.000And I just think people are thinking about themselves.
01:34:32.000They're thinking about, you know, Hey, I've got bills, and hey, I've got this, and I've got a practice, and I've got this.
01:34:38.000Yeah, I don't want to be the guy that tells you what to do, but you can't get upset at someone saying something that's...
01:34:46.000If I made up the fact that chiropractic medicine was founded by a magnetic healer, and a quack, well, by the way, he was killed by his own son.
01:37:26.000Oh, he's a guy who studied chiropractic medicine.
01:37:28.000And I love that so many of them just say doctor and you have to dig through their website for where it eventually says chiropractor.
01:37:34.000How can you fucking call yourself a doctor if you don't go to medical school?
01:37:37.000Shouldn't there be some sort of a national standard?
01:37:40.000It's funny because a lot of them, I don't know if this should bug me or not, because you'll see doctor somewhere, and the MDs will say MD really carefully, or pediatrician, although they'll be very careful to say what type of doctor they are.
01:37:53.000Now I'm very leery if I just see doctor, because I'm like, what breed of doctor are they?
01:38:38.000Someone who's got a doctorate shouldn't be a fucking doctor.
01:38:41.000And it's like, I go back and forth on that one because I have friends who, you know, have their PhDs.
01:38:45.000And like, you know, you kind of, you call them doctor.
01:38:48.000And then like when, I think, I feel like when they email people generally in the signature line, it's, you know, it's, you know, Joe Schmoe, PhD.
01:41:40.000And I think that's kind of a solid way to evaluate evidence.
01:41:45.000Like, if you've got a lot of them that say this and they seem solid and backed by people who know what they're talking about, it just seems to be a good way to evaluate how you're going to...
01:42:00.000Yeah, I mean, it seems like you just really have to do a lot of research before you form any opinion on anything.
01:42:05.000Well, that's one of the reasons why I don't blame people when they don't get it right, right away.
01:42:10.000Because do, and this is something I'll do at some of my talks, I'll say, you know, take out your phones and Google a term that you're not sure about in health or nutrition.
01:42:19.000Google GMOs, Google sugar, Google, you know, whatever.
01:42:22.000And, you know, tell me what the top 10 search results say.
01:42:25.000And, you know, Sometimes, especially with GMOs, for a long time, the top 8 out of 10 search results were like, wow, this is going to make your dick fall off.
01:42:34.000And now it's changed a little bit because there's been a huge effort by science writers to get out the word, this isn't going to kill you.
01:42:45.000So many of the top search results said they were horrible.
01:42:48.000How hard should just a soccer mom in Iowa have to hunt to figure out if this is going to kill her kids?
01:42:54.000That's why I really don't blame people when they get it wrong at first.
01:42:57.000Because there's so much bad information out there that it's easy to get the impression that, like I said, the 10,000 articles say it's bad when it's really just screaming assholes repeating the one article that says it's bad.
01:43:11.000Well, if you just Google chiropractic medicine, you're not going to get a lot of fraud articles.
01:43:16.000If you Google chiropractic is bullshit, you get your article, and then you go down a rabbit hole.
01:43:21.000And, you know, if you Google chiropractic fraud, you'll find plenty of stuff on it.
01:43:25.000And then the history of chiropractic medicine is where it really unravels.
01:45:32.000So, I mean, and I don't know how many stories there are like that from people saying, you know, we started chiropractic when I was a baby and this was not the way to go for me.
01:45:41.000Like, but God, some of the responses to the article.
01:45:45.000Well, what is that woman who just died?
01:45:47.000The Playboy model or family suing the car?
01:45:50.000So there are like the sudden very, you know, kind of violent way that they crack a neck in chiropractic can leave you open to severing an artery in your neck.
01:46:01.000Now, it's not often that it happens, but it happens.
01:46:03.000And this is one of those things that I have a really big contention with chiropractic with is that they have all these mornings and About how, you know, Western medicine, and it's kind of funny that they call it Western medicine when chiropractic started in the middle of the U.S. It's like, you don't get to claim that you made this in China,
01:46:34.000When you say potential side effects, too, you're talking about 320 million people that are going to the doctor.
01:46:40.000If you have 100,000 cases of potential side effects across the board from all causes, that's what they're harping on.
01:46:47.000You're harping on the minority of things that happen and go wrong.
01:46:51.000And then, you know, obviously, there's some shit like thalidomide and some stuff that people don't use anymore that are horrible and the side effects are...
01:46:57.000Thalidomide never made it to the U.S. That's something a lot of people don't realize...
01:47:01.000Really, it was used in other countries?
01:47:20.000And this is actually what gave us one of the best acts for regulation of For safety and efficacy in the U.S. And basically it said that drugs before they make it to market now have to be proven beyond a certain amount to show that they are both safe and effective.
01:47:37.000And it was basically thalidomide that launched that act, which is kind of like we're good at learning from our mistakes.
01:47:46.000I say we like I work for it, but no, it's like we're good at learning from our mistakes when we have a fuck-up like that.
01:49:49.000You're testing for allergic reactions and you're testing to see where people are going to have issues with the drug.
01:49:54.000So that when you get to market, you know that, you know, these people, like this is the percentage of people that have these side effects as a percentage with these.
01:50:02.000If you have these side effects, call your doctor right away, discontinue, that type of stuff.
01:50:08.000You don't know who you're going to give it to that's on X medication, that has X... Disorder on top of the thing you're treating for that type of stuff or if it could cause someone to die these things can happen and like that's kind of what happened with Vioxx is that you know like they didn't they there were some people in that room who probably Vioxx which just explain causes strokes in some folks yeah it was an anti-arthritis medication yeah and it was I know a guy who got a stroke from that,
01:50:36.000I mean, there were people in that room who probably looked at it and said, all right, so there's this risk factor that causes you to increase your possible risk factor by X percent.
01:50:46.000What if somebody has all of these risk factors combined?
01:50:50.000Well, you shouldn't approve it because there's a chance if you put somebody on this who has all of these combined, there's a chance that their chances of getting a stroke or having an issue with their heart attack from it is going to be through the roof.
01:51:03.000We shouldn't approve it, and it got approved anyway.
01:51:06.000It's one of those drugs that shouldn't have been put through.
01:51:18.000Yeah, and it's like there is a chance when you put any drug through.
01:51:21.000Now, they try to do things to minimize this, but because a Phase III trial only tests in, you know, a certain amount of the population, they try to get a diverse group.
01:51:31.000When you get it out, you don't know what the possible effects are going to be on someone else.
01:52:49.000But the problem is when they show these people holding hands and spinning around in a field of wheat and having the greatest time in their life and butterflies are flying around and puppies are magnetically drawn to them.
01:54:14.000So if you need urgent care or regular care, like you need to go to the doctor for a checkup, you need your annuals, or you have a fucking heart attack, I would say you're better off living in Canada.
01:54:28.000I had a little cousin that was born with basically no chambers in her heart.
01:54:33.000You know, it's like they saw it in utero and it was like, okay, we're going to have to give this child an operation like almost immediately when she was born.
01:54:42.000And for the next two years out, a surgery almost every, like open heart surgery every year on the dot.
01:55:33.000At first they did a surgery that kind of put a band around the heart to give it a little more structure and then they formed more chambers and then when she was three they put in like full chambers and now the only thing she can't do is she can't play contact sports and they paid nothing.
01:55:49.000She can't play contact sports because of the possibility of causing...
01:55:54.000I'm not sure exactly what it can do, but it can cause a little bit too much trauma to a heart that's already been through a lot of trauma.
01:56:01.000But that's the only thing that she's been told not to do.
01:58:15.000Well, the placebo effect is you give someone a sugar pill, you tell them it's medicine, and somehow or another it magically heals them, right?
02:00:21.000How you honestly feel and what you honestly think and what you honestly know about something.
02:00:25.000So as soon as you're a fucking astrologer or a card reader or a palm reader or a psychic, you're a bullshit artist.
02:00:34.000The reason you exist is because we can't really read minds.
02:00:39.000Because if I could know that you don't really know that, if I could see a little turkey tester pop up in your head, Well, I know you're full of shit.
02:00:45.000Like, oh, your fucking tester popped up, homie.
02:02:07.000And it was funny because I... We're good to go.
02:02:26.000And hearing Teller describe, like after I started, you know, doing the Psy Babe thing, chit-chatting with him about that, I got a little insight into his brain.
02:02:34.000He's like, yeah, we got the script back from legal.
02:02:36.000And they said, just call the chiropractors motherfuckers.
02:02:41.000And it's like, I'm like, inside I'm like, I gotta keep my composition, but my lord, that was like hearing Teller say motherfuckers.
02:02:47.000That sounds like something Penn would say too.
02:02:59.000I've learned a lot about skepticking responsibly from him.
02:03:04.000And one of the things I've always taken away is don't blame the victim.
02:03:07.000And that's something I've kept with me and I'll always keep with me.
02:03:11.000He's been a big influence on my work and it's been helpful.
02:03:15.000Yeah, I mean, we've all been hoodwinked.
02:03:17.000I mean, at some stage of your life, whether it's your parents telling you about Santa Claus or something along the way, we've been tricked.
02:03:25.000And it's not your fault that you got tricked.
02:03:27.000Man, sometimes it's not even the fault that the person is tricking you if they're being sincere and they're just misinformed and they don't understand that what they're doing is actually harmful.
02:03:59.000I did a show called Joe Rogan Questions Everything, and Banachek was one of the episodes where he was explaining to me how they do cold reading.
02:04:09.000Explain to me how they lead people into giving him enough information that he can form a reasonable assessment of who they are and then he would answer certain ask certain leading questions and he's like I've just done this so many times I know how to get be and people are shocked and they don't know what to do and they've never done this before so you know it's like you can ask them questions and they start giving you information and like your parents were divorced when you were young how do you know Because you said it.
02:04:39.000You can read certain things from people.
02:04:42.000He showed us a bunch of shit that he does, like the spoon bending thing.
02:04:46.000A bunch of different things that people want you to think that it's magic.
02:04:51.000It's funny because there's a big crossover with the magician community and the skeptic community, and it's because they know how easy it is to trick the Sure.
02:05:01.000It's been interesting to see this group of entertainers that people think of as goofballs be a little bit of a bastion of intellectualism because it's hard to get people to pay attention to anything on the internet.
02:05:14.000But if you make it funny and you add a dick joke, suddenly people are like, I've got to learn about this.
02:05:19.000Well, that's why Penn and Teller, I think, are so important because they were the first magicians who were really adamant that what they're doing is bullshit.
02:05:50.000One of my favorite ones is there was an episode where they attacked organic food, and this is this thing where people double down on things.
02:05:59.000They took a banana, cut it in half, and it was, I believe, a conventionally grown banana, and on one plate they'd say it was an organic banana, the other plate they'd say it was organic, the other plate conventionally grown, and have people take a bite out of each one.
02:06:12.000And people, you know, they'd sit there describing the organic banana as creamy and sweet and tastes like a banana should taste.
02:06:19.000And the conventionally grown, yeah, it's really bland and it doesn't taste good.
02:06:24.000And this one girl after they explained, to quote Penn, it's the same fucking banana!
02:06:30.000And this one girl afterwards, she's like, I don't know if it makes me question my opinion of organic versus conventional.
02:06:36.000It really makes me question the concept of the banana.
02:07:06.000Enough attempting to destroy my vocal cords will produce a pen impression, almost.
02:07:12.000Well, I think it's a unique time for exposing bullshit, you know, because there's enough articles and videos, and there's enough, like, you can kind of get a sense, like, oh, I see a pattern here.
02:07:25.000I think people are tired of not knowing what's real on the internet, and it's partially, like, this whole trend with fake news, and, like, there's kind of a breaking point, I think, in terms of what people are willing to accept for just...
02:07:39.000Shit being spewed on the internet and being accepted as real because there's so much content out there and people want to spend their time reading stuff that's for real and that they can trust and they don't want to trust shitty sources you know like they want to go all right here's a source I can trust I can keep going back to this website I can get good information.
02:07:59.000And they want things explained that they know was researched well.
02:08:03.000And I think that this is a valuable good to offer out to people saying, you know, here's something real and here's a dick joke to read while you're reading something real.
02:08:14.000So I aim for a good dick joke to research ratio.
02:08:28.000I mean, it seems like, I mean, when you're dealing with 4,000 words, I mean, was it just the comprehensive coverage on why chiropractic medicine is bullshit?
02:08:35.000Or is it just like, like, God damn, I got to keep this thing as tight as I can, but there's so much to talk about.
02:08:41.000I was going to joke, well, I do get paid by the word.
02:08:43.000No, that's true, but it wasn't like...
02:08:46.000I never go into it going, let's make it as long as I can or make it as short as I can.
02:08:51.000I'm a contributing writer at The Outline now, and whenever we write a piece, it's always, let's make it cover the topic in as entertaining and as...
02:09:29.000One thing I would have liked to have covered if somehow we could have condensed it a little so we could have fit something else in, I would have maybe added in a piece on are there science-based chiropractors.
02:10:12.000When you say chiropractor science-based, if it was bullshit when it started, if it was something that was created by a magnetic healer, it was a nonsense thing that came from a seance.
02:10:23.000How does that ever become science-based if the original, the origin, it's not based on medical research where they figured out that if you do this, look, here's all the studies that we've shown.
02:10:35.000When you do this, this is the immune system response that the body has.
02:10:47.000And I don't want to diminish, and this is something that I'm sure people are sitting there with daggers still mad at us for questioning their subjective experiences.
02:10:55.000I don't want to tell people that they did not feel relief from what they...
02:11:00.000Because pain is really subjective and it's hard to manage.
02:11:04.000I think that there are chiropractors who aim specifically to relieve low back pain.
02:11:09.000And I mean, I think if you aim just to do that with your chiropractic practice while still telling people, look, I'm just doing this while you go to physical therapy.
02:11:18.000You should still be going to a physical therapist.
02:11:20.000This is an adjunctive thing solely to relieve pain.
02:11:24.000And they try to see how it can just relieve pain.
02:11:28.000I think it's possible that that can do that, but I think that adding that into the article takes away from it a bit, because that's not part of the article's point of view, and it's also not part of my point of view of how it's not a science-based practice.
02:11:42.000So I think that, and I mean, I've seen some ethical chiropractors, there's Sam Homola, I'm not sure how to pronounce his name, I've never heard it said out loud before, but that was one of the chiropractors who I cited in there.
02:11:53.000He's continued to practice while speaking out against the chiropractic, very vocally speaking out against chiropractic as a whole, because he's seen that it can, you know, and there is some evidence.
02:12:07.000And that's one of those things where I feel like I'm in a gray area, because I don't want to diminish the people who have said that it's helped them have...
02:12:14.000Pain relief, but I also think these people should be going to a physical therapist and to a massage therapist.
02:12:23.000So I'm not sure what the exact right answer is on that.
02:12:28.000If someone says, I've been to a physical therapist, I've been to a massage therapist, and this is the only thing that's ever made it feel better, and I went in one session.
02:13:05.000What if, and this is, I get it, this is completely a hypothetical, what if it hadn't been started by this nutjaw-bagnetic healer and it was a doctor who said, oh, this can, you know, this can help.
02:13:16.000And if it was just an osteopath who was trying to see if this could help relieve pain along with physical therapy.
02:13:23.000So I encourage people if they are looking for a way that manipulation can help, maybe not go to a chiropractor, but seek out in your medical practice an osteopath who knows much more about anatomy and please keep going to a physical therapist and maybe a massage therapist because massages feel fucking great.
02:14:34.000And that's also a problem because most chiropractors also incorporate massage.
02:14:40.000So it's so hard to decide, like, what is helping you.
02:14:44.000Yeah, and I mean, that's, like, I think it's, and I get it, like, I'm, I don't want to, I think the hardest part is telling people that their subjective experience is wrong.
02:15:01.000Yeah, and it's like, if you went to a chiropractor, you're not stupid, you're not wrong, you're not a moron, you're someone who's suffering.
02:15:52.000But the whooping cough vaccine, when they made it, some strains of it wore off faster than was originally expected.
02:16:01.000Somebody came into my lab, and we were, I mean, we were given, you know, along with our packages working two labs ago at a drug testing lab, we were given health insurance.
02:16:11.000And it was around the time of the first Obamacare debate, you know, when people were all like, I don't need to buy health care.
02:16:16.000And one of the guys in the lab who was all, why should I get health care?
02:17:19.000And this is something that chiropractic does yell about in the pain care department.
02:17:26.000And in the medical system that they have a point about, doctors do throw pills at you haphazardly.
02:17:31.000My doctor, and I'm never going to not be mad about this, my doctor instead of saying we should do a scan with contrast to see what's going on because you're really complaining about this, chucked me a bottle of Vicodin and said go ahead and run.
02:17:48.000Oh yeah, I'm not gonna say because you know it's like it's there was that part of me that was really happy that I got to do my ultra but God damn it if you need Vicodin to run a marathon don't do it.
02:17:58.000Oh yeah, it's I mean don't don't do that but I mean it was funny because after I ran I'm like all right I don't need to you know take the medication anymore because I'm not running and suddenly I realized how fucked up my hip was and it was like oh my god I can barely walk like I What was wrong with the hip?
02:18:40.000I'm pretty sure my parents dropped me as a baby and just won't admit to it because my headache left side, three surgeries on my left shoulder, surgery on my left hip.
02:19:12.000You'd pull back on the left if you're left eye dominant.
02:19:15.000Yeah, pull back on the left and my right arm keeps getting bruised like crazy and I have to keep explaining to people that I'm not getting hit.
02:19:20.000Because you're slapping the skin with this string?
02:21:47.000Well, I mean, everything you said is right, though.
02:21:50.000The real problem is what you did was, you know, you exposed something.
02:21:55.000It's the one thing, and I keep waiting for this, you know, there was the one article where somebody called me a Sith Lord, and I'm like, they gave a bunch of...
02:22:31.000I'm like, you know, after all the insults that people have thrown, I found an article written about me once, and this was beautiful, that said that I was a big pharma shill because I admitted to taking medication for my headache.