On this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, the boys talk about their epic bow hunting trip to Lanai, the Hawaiian island paradise. They talk about all the things they did and didn't get to do on this trip. They also talk about some of the cool things they got to do in Lanai. And of course, there's a little shout out to one of the best bow hunters in the entire world. If you don't know who he is, then you're in for a treat! Joe Rogans Experience is a podcast hosted by the world's best bowhunter, John Dudley, and his hunting buddy, Sam Zuholt, on a trip to the Hawaiian Island of Lanai to hunt for bow and arrow deer. This episode was recorded in the middle of the day on the beach on the last day of their trip, so the audio is a little rough, but we promise it'll get better the next time we do a podcast like this. We hope you enjoy the episode, and if you like it, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, and tell a friend about it! Cheers, Joe and the boys! -Jon & Sam - Shane Dorian and the Hunting Bus "The Hunting Bus" - "The Great Bus" by Jon & Sam Zuhlts Thanks, Jon & the hunting Bus. Thanks for coming to the hunt. -Shane Dorian & Cam The Hunting Bus by Jon and the hunting bus by the hunting in Hawaii. Thank you for coming out to the hunting with us, we had a blast! -Shawn and Sam and we hope you have a great time out there! Thanks to all the hunters out there. XOXO and Cheers! -Jon and Sam! - The HuntingBus - The Great Bus! - Cheers. Joe & the HuntingBus. . . . . -The HuntingBus, Jon Dudley Shavyn & The Hunting Boyz ( ) XO - Shane Doran & the Shooting Boyz Podcast by the Great Bus - "Shawn by the Hunting Boys" - , & Ben O'Brien CHECK OUT THE HUNTING BOOTY - CHEERING BOOT - - Gav & Gav's
00:01:38.000Actually, I had a guy, and he tagged me, you, and Cam in this picture, and he had eBayed a Hoyt.
00:01:47.000I don't know if you saw that picture, but he tagged us both, and he was holding up this bow, and he said, it's about ready to get effing serious.
00:07:18.000And as we're tooling around New Zealand hunting, he mentions when we're talking about Hawaii, we're talking about elk hunting, we're just kind of covering all the best spots in the world.
00:07:26.000And he said something to me like, Lanai is the best deer hunting you'll ever find.
00:10:16.000Well, we were in Vegas for SHOT Show, and one of the cool things about SHOT Show is you get down there, and there's a bunch of other people that are into hunting, and everybody starts talking.
00:10:24.000You're like, man, we've got to do something.
00:11:40.000You know, really the revenue came from pineapples and it was a pineapple plantation.
00:11:45.000And when we're, like my knuckles are bloody.
00:11:47.000I don't know if your guys are from crawling around my knees and my knuckles are bloody, but everywhere you go there's like little one inch wide plastic pipe on the ground.
00:11:57.000That was all the irrigation, all the, you know, all the irrigation for the pineapples.
00:12:02.000And he told us today that they actually, They buried that plastic, a lot of the black plastic that you see where they've now ground it up because they took the pineapples out.
00:12:16.000He said the plastic was seven feet under the top of the soil so that the moisture stayed between the top of the soil and the plastic so that the pineapples would actually grow.
00:12:30.000That's interesting because everywhere you walk, you do see that black plastic kind of popping up.
00:12:34.000He said they've tried to get rid of it, but he said it was seven feet under the topsoil.
00:12:41.000Yeah, Pineapple Island is what the reference is for the island.
00:12:49.000Axis meat historically has been argued as the most Pure, tasteful meat on the planet.
00:12:59.000Just what they serve at the hotel, those Axis meat sliders.
00:13:04.000It's pretty cool because here at the hotel, when they say venison burgers, back in the States when they say venison, we're thinking whitetail.
00:13:11.000But here when they say venison, it specifically is Axis that's native to the island and everything that they're serving here at the hotel is Axis.
00:13:44.000When I went to a restaurant, I went to a restaurant that's near my house, and this guy, it was a really nice restaurant, and they're like, we have elk from New Zealand.
00:13:53.000They're making it like it's a big deal.
00:14:46.000All those animals are invasive, so they go crazy and they have to control their populations.
00:14:54.000When I was down there, we were talking about the difference between the states and here, and they were talking about their need to, you know, the outfitter community there wants to make money.
00:15:03.000Of course, but they also want to conserve and protect that population of wildlife.
00:15:06.000Their problem is the population on that island doesn't value the wildlife.
00:15:13.000I mean, they see shammy and they see tar, Himalayan tar, and they see red stags as a feral population or a non-native mammal that they shoot at wholesale.
00:15:24.000So they jump in a helicopter, they fly around, they shoot these animals, and what these guys are saying is, At this point, they might as well be indigenous.
00:15:32.000I mean, these are the animals that we have here.
00:15:34.000We need to protect them and treat them like a resource and value them, which gives them a better chance to live on.
00:15:39.000Well, the tourism in New Zealand, how much of it is based on hunting?
00:16:16.000That's just kind of like the dirty little secret of theirs.
00:16:19.000There's a lot of high fence, like every single one of those really big red stags that everybody sees and goes, wow, look at that New Zealand stag.
00:18:27.000Yeah, I mean it's like, photographing them is next level.
00:18:30.000I mean I've shot photos of a ton of elk and deer, like whitetail and mule deer and all sorts of stuff, but like it's so hot that the fur is so thin and just like the entire thing looks sleek and like the spots and everything.
00:19:58.000I found it on Craigslist, just south of Fort Collins, Colorado, and basically bought it almost directly from a school district, but they had totally rebuilt the engine and transmission, so it's like ready to go.
00:20:31.000I'll be able to sleep five in the bus, but then I'm also going to have a 10 by 20 wall tent that sits up next to it, so we can sleep as many as we want.
00:20:39.000And the wall tent, you're going to have hot water that pumps into the wall tent so you can actually take showers.
00:20:45.000Yeah, so I'm going to have a wood stove in the wall tent to warm it up, and then the tankless hot water heater will be connected to the end of the kitchen, and I'll run it out the window so you can take a hot shower in a heated wall tent.
00:20:57.000And you talked about this while we're in BC. Yeah, so the bus idea.
00:21:40.000Yeah, so spending the next year in a bus.
00:21:43.000Isn't that funny how when you get something in your head that you are really into, and then you start walking into it, and other people are like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
00:21:51.000For me, it's like 1990s, 80s series Land Cruisers.
00:21:56.000Because it's the last years where they had the front and rear solid axles, and those trucks can drive anywhere.
00:26:19.000The thing that you encounter a lot as firemen is you go on fire calls where a lot of the houses are not kept up at the level that most people would keep them up.
00:26:31.000I guess that's a politically correct way to say it.
00:29:47.000You can smoke water with like mesquite or apple flavored pellets or anything you want and then you freeze them and if you have a crappy bourbon you can drop that smoked ice ball in and you can take a real crappy bourbon and make it decent.
00:33:45.000Yeah, for like the world of hunting, very well-respected guy.
00:33:49.000And we had this ongoing debate, which is really cool because when I have a lot of my guests on my podcast, I like to get into things to where it interests me because it's a lot like you.
00:34:00.000There's, I wouldn't say argument, but there's debate between this, you know, A versus B. And Bill's, he's very successful and he has a very good following and he has a very valid opinion.
00:34:15.000But his opinion on an arrow having a lot of speed In order to avoid, you know, deer dropping versus like say Adam Greentree's opinion of having just a super efficient,
00:34:31.000very heavy arrow that is maximum penetration to where regardless of what it hits, it's going to do its job.
00:34:39.000And by dropping, what we mean is when...
00:36:55.000This whole thing was put together, and while we were here, we were thinking this might be the ultimate destination for bow hunters to prepare for any other hunt.
00:37:28.000So Bill Winkie's debate, speed versus...
00:37:32.000So the drop means the deer hear the sound of an arrow, which is like...
00:37:37.000They hear the sound of a bow going off, and they literally duck down.
00:37:42.000Not duck because they think an arrow's coming.
00:37:45.000They duck because they're preparing to lower themselves and launch themselves forward.
00:37:49.000Yeah, a lot of times people think they're ducking the arrow, but what happens is when someone gets scared, it's a lot like, Sharon, my wife, is bad about this.
00:38:00.000I'll come around the corner and be like, hey babe, and she'll, ah!
00:40:38.000He could have been the greatest heavyweight of all time if he was fully dedicated.
00:40:42.000He started from the time he was in high school and went straight into MMA. He spent so much time in pro wrestling, but if you look at Brock Lesnar's Columbine...
00:41:18.000I've never seen anybody as more freaky than Brock Lesnar.
00:41:21.000But that freaky athleticism, what's beautiful about MMA, that freaky athleticism does not overcome technique and long-term training in the particular disciplines of MMA. That's why Cain Velasquez beat the shit out of him.
00:41:36.000Whereas Cain Velasquez, he's a freak too, but he's a cardio freak.
00:41:40.000Different kind of freak, not a power freak.
00:42:50.000And it's the same thing with fighting.
00:42:53.000If you're an explosive, super-fast athlete, but you run out of gas, you're fucked.
00:43:02.000You have this short window of time to get the job done.
00:43:05.000And if the guy who you're fighting can survive that storm...
00:43:08.000You're kind of fucked, you know, because then you don't have any gas left and that's Brock Lesnar.
00:43:13.000Brock Lesnar never really developed into the type of like fully evolved MMA fighter.
00:43:20.000But what he did have is this freak athletic body.
00:43:23.000That's the same thing with George Foreman.
00:43:25.000When you watch that Rumble in the Jungle, George Foreman came out of the gate storming, hit Muhammad Ali with these body shots.
00:43:32.000Even a better fight is watch George Foreman versus Joe Frazier where he literally picks him up with shots.
00:43:39.000He hits him and you see Joe Frazier's body go up in the air from getting hit because Foreman was so powerful.
00:43:47.000But Muhammad Ali was skillful enough, so when the punches were hitting him, he was sliding just a little bit out of the way, just a little bit out of the way with each punch, absorbing them but moving with them, so it took a lot of the energy away from him.
00:44:04.000You could say this is like an analogy to like arrows.
00:44:10.000And a heavyweight arrow, which goes slower, or a fast arrow, which doesn't have as much momentum, doesn't have as much kinetic energy, but it's quicker.
00:44:20.000But if they both connect on point A at the same time, Foreman is definitely doing more damage.
00:45:28.000I shoot the tree, my arrow deflects off the side of the tree, and the side of the broadhead, the third blade of the broadhead gets stuck in a branch.
00:45:35.000And he looks at me and goes, have your arrow.
00:46:14.000I actually downloaded a GIF. A GIF file of Miley Cyrus on the wrecking ball.
00:46:21.000Because I was shooting at 85 yards at my house.
00:46:25.000And when his arrow would hit my target...
00:46:30.000The next time I would shoot, all I could see is the L-forms moving on my target because it was still shaking from the arrow that I shot before it.
00:46:41.000So when Joe said, dude, how's that setup doing?
00:48:29.000When Joe says training, we're not training on these animals.
00:48:33.000We're talking about the training of spotting an animal, stalking it, and making what is an efficient shot.
00:48:39.000It's a very ethical practice, but training just means opportunity after opportunity after opportunity, meaning that you can get after these animals and learn how they move, how you move, how you can be quiet, when to duck, when to draw.
00:48:53.000In a single day of hunting here, you have more opportunities on spotting stocks than the majority of you guys are going to have in an entire hunting trip.
00:51:13.000Everything you made was super legit, and I was blown away by how...
00:51:20.000I've eaten a lot of mouflons, actually, but I was blown away by that side-by-side comparison, like a mouflon sheep compared to the axis deer.
00:51:34.000It was true, because what kind of sucks about this whole trip is I wanted, the one thing I really wanted to shoot was a mouflon on Hawaii.
00:51:47.000Sorry, Shane's playing my little violin with his fingers.
00:51:52.000I had had a lot of opportunity to shoot mouflon in states that didn't have native mouflon, and I always said if I want to shoot a mouflon, I really want to shoot it in Hawaii.
00:52:08.000And I had asked the guide if they had MUFON, and he said, well, yeah, but it's really tough to get up there.
00:52:15.000And little did I know that, meanwhile, Ben and Remy Warren had secretly arranged a hunt up in MUFON territory, which literally looked like New Zealand.
00:53:34.000Because I've been in a couple different fights that you've invited me on, thank you.
00:53:39.000When Connor hits people, they think they know what it's going to feel like, but then when it does, like when that first left hand hits him, their face really changes, like...
00:53:52.000I think they expect what it's going to feel like, but when they actually feel it, it's a totally different expression.
00:54:01.000I mean, I've been that way in competition, which I've shot professionally for a lot of years, and then when you meet someone in a match, and then they actually stand next to you and compete with you, you can tell on their face that they're experiencing something different than they prepare for.
00:54:37.000Well, not only that, but like maybe when you're coming up, like you see someone who's on just another level and you go, wow, okay, there's that too.
00:54:46.000Once you experience them live where you're like, wait a minute.
00:54:49.000Yeah, and there's a lot of guys who just don't like really like sort of like the same way you're saying that like it doesn't translate like...
00:55:04.000I think it's like that with any sport where it's like, you know, you're expecting to see this guy who you've heard of or read about or watched films of or something, and then you see him in real life and you're like, what the hell?
00:55:26.000There's this guy, there's this heavyweight named Francis Ngannou, who's this African heavyweight who's in the UFC, who's like one of the best fighters in the heavyweight division right now.
00:56:51.000He was kicking this bag, and I guess if you saw a video, it'd be kind of impressive, but when I was there live, I was like, Jesus fucking Christ!
00:57:00.000It was just like three or four levels past anybody I'd ever seen in terms of the amount of power they could generate with a kick.
00:57:10.000And that's like the same thing with Ngannou.
00:57:12.000That's the same thing with a lot of people.
00:57:14.000It's like there's something about seeing something live.
00:58:03.000When he made a shot on this mouflon, 57 yards, it seemed to me like his arrow made an S pattern to what essentially was a cantaloupe-sized target that he's shooting at at 57 yards.
00:58:15.000And he shot through like six trees from a knee at like a 45-degree angle with his bow.
00:58:22.000I would like to tell you about a shot that I saw John Dudley shoot a couple of days ago, but I need permission.
01:05:04.000I recommended to Arnold that they actually, instead of having professional archery, they have the NASP. Ohio State finals there so that they could have the high school NAS program have their finals at the Arnold Classic, which I thought would be better for the sport of archery.
01:08:34.000All I'm saying is Tank came out, and what I was going to say is, a lot like Brock or whatever, I was excited to high-five Tank, and I was on the inside corner of where they come out.
01:08:47.000Tank came out, and he was coming out to his music, and he was jacked.
01:08:52.000And I was supposed to shoot the next day for the tournament, and I put my hand up like this for him to high-five me as he was coming down, and he was so jacked for the fight, I literally think he possibly ripped my shoulder out of the socket.
01:11:17.000How many cat ladies did you have and how much peyote was mixed in?
01:11:26.000He was struggling to barely stay alive in the first and in the second he literally came off the bell with this huge flying knee and freaking clock tank right here in the eye and he was down to the mat and the next day I saw a tank And Lou Ferrigno and freaking everybody else at the Arnold Classic.
01:11:49.000And he had this huge freaking welt and he was knocked out in one kick.
01:17:11.000And like we were talking about these animals jumping the string and these animals like so tuned in to what you're doing and your movement and your intentions.
01:17:20.000And accomplishing that struggle and getting through that struggle, you know, It's very compelling, and I hate to use the word addictive because it has so many negative connotations attached to it, but it might be the best word to describe to it because it becomes a part of who you are.
01:17:38.000I know, Shane, you've got this issue, right?
01:18:52.000Like you said, like bowling or baseball or those things, you're trying to literally repeat the repetitive motion of that.
01:18:57.000There is a repetitive motion in the process of drawing your bow and letting an arrow fly, but there's no repetition in what that situation requires.
01:19:05.000Whether you have to shoot from a knee or whether you have to shoot at an angle or whether you have to wait or go quick.
01:20:22.000And hunting has made me want to garden and have chickens.
01:20:25.000Hunting has flipped the switch for me to understand the feeling it takes to eat something that you've not only provided, but you've worked for and trained for and mentally suffered for at some level, physically too.
01:21:37.000Imagine how ridiculous that would sound if you presented our predatory history as a human.
01:21:44.000We evolved from cavemen throwing spears at things or cavemen going and eating the leftovers or whatever lions killed two million years ago to To the same caveman two million years later, walking around in a Whole Foods, peeling off the stickers of a piece of pork and thinking that's humane and okay.
01:22:03.000It's also kind of a cop-out because people hate it when you say you have to experience it.
01:22:09.000Because until you experience it, you really don't know what we're talking about.
01:22:12.000But there is such a radical difference between eating a steak that you buy at a store and what that experience is and eating the back strap of an axis deer that you had to sneak up on.
01:22:23.000You had to crawl on your hands and knees.
01:22:25.000You had to wait for this thing to be cresting the ridge for the perfect opportunity to pass in front of the bush where you draw back.
01:22:33.000You're centering your bubble on your rest.
01:22:37.000You're on your sight, and you're just drawing back, and you're just making sure you don't fuck this up, and you see that arrow launch, and you see it slam into his ribcage, and you're like, fuck, I got him!
01:22:49.000And you see it run, and you see it fall over, and its legs kick...
01:22:53.000And then you cut it up and then you cook it while you're eating that thing.
01:23:04.000You respect it in a way that no one ever respects anything that comes in a ground beef package wrapped in plastic, sitting on styrofoam, laying on crushed ice.
01:25:46.000When we first met, me and Sam, we shot a moose.
01:25:50.000Two couple hours later, we were in a tiny little house in British Columbia.
01:25:54.000You were cooking the liver and onions of the moose you just shot, and the heart, the slicing of the heart of the moose you just shot, and we were eating it, and I was just sitting on the table thinking, like, here's a guy who's been through more than I'll ever go through.
01:26:07.000Here's a guy who's experienced more life than a lot of folks.
01:26:09.000Who's like discovered this thing and not only discovered it, but jumped into it with both feet and is eating heart and liver.
01:26:17.000I mean, I know a lot of hunters that don't want to experience that or don't open their minds to experience eating organs or whatever.
01:26:25.000But you jump into that thing and you say, like, I want all of it.
01:26:27.000I want every piece of the experience and I don't want to miss anything.
01:26:31.000And then once you start to do that, I mean, that's three years ago we hunted.
01:26:40.000Well, in those three years, I went from being almost exclusively rifle in the beginning, which is probably a good way to get started because it's more reliable, to being almost exclusively archery.
01:26:54.000And one of the things that struck me about it is one of the things that strikes me about a lot of things about this crazy life that we live is that I don't think most people are seeing everything.
01:27:06.000And I think that we live a life with blinders on.
01:27:08.000I think one of the reasons why we do that is because life becomes...
01:27:12.000More and more complex the longer we live.
01:27:15.000We have more and more responsibilities.
01:27:18.000We have family and they have more and more responsibilities.
01:27:21.000We're involved in all these responsibilities.
01:27:23.000We accumulate debt and we accumulate all these different tasks that require our attention.
01:27:30.000And those things chew up a lot of your time on this earth.
01:27:33.000And somewhere along the line, you forget a lot of things.
01:28:07.000When you stumble across something as intense as hunting, or even as archery, you know, which is, I mean, even without hunting, I've said time and time again, if you're a vegan, you should do archery just the same, for the same reason you should do yoga, for the same reason you should meditate.
01:28:23.000But I think that when you stumble across something that is a real game changer, it's almost like your responsibility.
01:28:29.000I feel like, in a lot of ways, what I do with my life is I'm like a little bit...
01:28:36.000Ahead in terms of like there's like a path.
01:28:39.000I'm a little maybe ahead of where I should be.
01:28:41.000And I'm like, guys, you gotta see this!
01:29:11.000I think that hunting, like a lot of things in life, is not for everybody, and you don't have to do it.
01:29:19.000But the experience is so intense that most people who do do it feel required to let everyone know that there's something else out there.
01:29:30.000The life that we live inside these barriers, And these civilization, confinements, the walls and the structures of cities and of language and culture,
01:29:47.000all of those erode when you're on a spot and stalk.
01:29:53.000In Hawaii and you're sneaking up on some deer that just wants to stay alive.
01:29:58.000It goes back to your role in humanity but also in society.
01:30:05.000I feel more accomplished as a human being because I have the ability to shoot an axis deer with a bow.
01:30:12.000I don't think someone that can do that is less accomplished but I feel like As a part of my skill set as a human, the skill set of my evolution as a person, that has been a tool for me to use to gain perspective.
01:30:28.000We were talking about some trips that I've been on.
01:30:33.000Yeah, maybe there's some photos on social media or some things to denote my accomplishment or what I killed or the mountains I climbed or the things I've done.
01:30:42.000The perspective you gain that you take on with you that kind of bleeds out into your work life and your social life and all the things, your interactions with other people, those things can't be measured.
01:30:54.000So there's some level of measurement that you just can't get from hunting.
01:30:58.000When we do stuff like this together as a group, there's just some level of...
01:31:01.000I'd go to SHOT Show, go to the biggest hunting trade show where we had that video of us getting drunk and screaming.
01:31:08.000I think sometimes people have never been to that show.
01:31:11.000They don't realize the people that I see there and that Sam sees there and that Dudley sees there and that you see when you come.
01:32:04.000I feel like where we are right now, I mean, I understand this longing for some utopian existence where nothing has to suffer and nothing has to die.
01:33:36.000Like, I'm no wildlife management expert, but there is, like, these islands like this, you know, coming from New Zealand last month and coming to this island of Lanai, you just realize what happens in a closed ecosystem, like a place where there is no opportunity for things to move on.
01:33:52.000I mean, there just is no opportunity for...
01:34:39.000I think it's a hundred and fifty people a year and there's I think it's actually 200 people a year and 1.5 million accidents I think it's about somewhere around there which is insane and John where you live I mean you're the perfect person to talk to about that when I came to your place dude we were there during the rut and we saw a deer bouncing in front of the road left and right We saw dead deer on the side of the road,
01:35:13.000It says an estimated 1.23 million deer vehicle collisions occurred in the U.S. between July 1, 2011 and June 30, 2012, costing more than $4 million in vehicle damage.
01:38:15.000I think most of them mean well and I think most of them look at us the same way a lot of people look at a lot of things that they're ignorant to.
01:38:22.000They cast these judgments on it and it's not because they're bad people.
01:38:26.000It's because they just don't understand the full complexity of all the variables that are involved in this equation that is life.
01:38:35.000Emotional attachment to their worldview.
01:38:38.000Veganism is part of their emotional view of the world.