In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, I sit down with the man behind the most highlighted, viral video in the history of MMA, Michael Jai White. We talk about how he got started in martial arts, how he became a martial artist, and what it takes to become one of the best kickboxers in the world. We also talk about his background in taekwondo and how he went from being an amateur to being a full-time martial arts martial artist. I think you're going to get a lot out of this episode, so don't miss it! I hope you enjoy this episode and tweet me if you have any thoughts or opinions on any of the topics covered in this episode. Tweet Me! and let me know what you thought of it in the comments section below! Timestamps: 4:00 - What was your favorite highlight reel kick in MMA history? 6:30 - What is your favorite moment in MMA and why it's one of your all-time favorite kickboxing highlight reel moments? 9:00 - How he got into martial arts and martial arts? 11:00- What is the best martial arts move you've ever learned from someone else? 12:30- How did he become a martial arts teacher? 13:30 - Who was your first martial arts instructor? 15:00 -- How did you learn to throw a spinning back kick? 16:30 -- What are some of your favorite martial arts moves? 17:20 - How do you learned to throw the spinning back kicks? 18: What are your favorite technique? 19:15 - What do you've learned from a martial art? 21:00 What are you looking for? 22:40 - What s your favorite piece of advice? 26:40 -- How to get better at throwing a hip? 27:15 -- How do I feel about your favorite kick or leg day? 28:40 29:10 - How to balance on a heavy bag? 30: What s the most powerful kick or footwork? 35:10 32:30 | What do I need to be better? 31:00 | What s my favorite thing? 36:40 | Should I practice? 33:00 & 35:00 + 32:00 // 35:20 39:10 | Can I get better in MMA?
00:01:38.000When I used to go on YouTube, I used to watch a lot of different videos, you know, on how to, you know, not just train as a mixed martial artist, but just to learn, like, different moves and techniques from different disciplines.
00:01:48.000From not just taekwondo, but, you know, hapkido, you know, kushin, sanshao, you know, all these different disciplines that I used to take from.
00:01:57.000And then once I looked at the disciplines, I looked at who the best people in it, right?
00:02:01.000And then I looked at different people that's in those disciplines, whatever.
00:02:04.000And guess who I ran into when I got into taekwondo?
00:02:41.000But I used to generate so much power when I used to balance, you know, my right foot on her, not my right, but my left foot because I would come in like a roundhouse kick because I'm a softball.
00:02:50.000I would balance on the bag and then I would propel myself off the bag and I would spin.
00:02:53.000And we used to make this hard pop like a shotgun, right?
00:02:58.000So I'm like, bro, I feel like so powerful like throwing this kick, you know what I mean?
00:03:01.000But regardless, though, just seeing these people do this stuff and just learning from them and just imitating these moves, you know, years later, then I end up performing that kick.
00:03:10.000You know who's got some of the best instructionals of that, of traditional kicks like sidekicks and turning sidekicks?
00:03:45.000How to just fight on that one side, you know, make yourself, you know, just like a line, hard to hit, you know, but he made his leg like a jab.
00:08:23.000Well, I mean, like low-key, but I knew that that's what I wanted to do, and it was the closest thing to a discipline, to a martial arts discipline, is wrestling.
00:11:02.000We were talking about the difference between going to a big gym and the way you're doing it at a smaller gym.
00:11:09.000And there's some interesting conversation to be had about that because you made some really good points about when you're in a smaller gym, you get individualized attention and you're not getting lost in the crowd.
00:11:54.000So even though we have so much applied knowledge out there and so many things that we can do, sometimes it's like the basic knowledge that we have.
00:12:00.000And if we work with a smaller gym, we're able to focus on that a little bit more.
00:12:04.000You know as a team, you know instead of everybody just doing their own thing cuz I don't could nobody say like big gyms Everybody's just doing their own thing everybody working with who they working with, you know They not even working with the coach unless they got a name and they got a big fight coming up That's the thing right cuz that's what I hear.
00:12:18.000It's like you get two arguments one of them is iron sharpens iron So if you're around like if you go to ATT if you're an American top team World-class facility giant place dormitories World-class guys coming from all over the world.
00:12:32.000But when I've talked to fighters who train there, they say, look, man, you get in there with some Russian dude you never met before and he's trying to kill you.
00:12:41.000Like, if you're not a world-class guy, if you're not a top-of-the-food-chain guy that has a lot of money riding on him, They'll put you in there with everybody who's in class.
00:12:49.000And you're going to have to sing or swim.
00:12:57.000So a lot of guys get it twisted when they go to these big gyms and they think that they're going to be elevated because of the guys that they're around.
00:13:03.000But at the same time, like you said, people are just trying to beat you up.
00:13:27.000Let's say, you know, certain pros, high-level pros, you know what I mean?
00:13:30.000Not saying that a high-level pro can't work with an amateur, but certain amateurs shouldn't be working with certain pros.
00:13:36.000Like, they should be developed to a certain point where they're showing that they know enough, and now they can move up and work with certain individuals.
00:13:45.000Because all it's going to do is hurt the little young amateur.
00:13:48.000And then sometimes amateurs be doing the wrong thing and be going too hard and could end up cutting, you know what I'm saying, a high-level pro.
00:13:54.000And they might not be making a lot of money, but that's somebody that's a potential prospect.
00:14:41.000So the gym itself is called Salt Academy.
00:14:44.000It's a wrestling academy, so he has a lot of high-level prospects, high school wrestlers, middle school wrestlers, some of the best wrestlers in the nation that come to him to learn wrestling.
00:15:02.000And he's more of my size and stuff like that, so I get a lot of high-level wrestling from him because both of them are Hall of Famers at Michigan State, which is pretty dope.
00:15:14.000Nice revenue, you know what I'm saying?
00:15:15.000Not revenue, but a great career within wrestling.
00:15:20.000Went undefeated, you know what I'm saying, for the longest time.
00:15:22.000I think over 200, 300 bouts or something like that, undefeated.
00:15:26.000And then I got a conditioning coach at the HBI Human Performance Institute, Justin Hartley.
00:15:32.000That's where we get all our conditioning work in.
00:15:35.000So, like, we don't have many, many guys, you know, but at the end of the day, we have enough to work with.
00:15:40.000We also got a guy that works with our jiu-jitsu who works at Magic named Brendan Berry, who does all our jiu-jitsu, but the crazy thing about him, he's not a black belt, he's not a high-level jiu-jitsu guy.
00:15:48.000He's somebody that's just passionate about jiu-jitsu, who watches it every day, you know, and he shows us stuff that actually works, but he's somebody that's committed to it, you know, and who watches it every day, and that's who we learn jiu-jitsu from.
00:16:01.000Well, that was the case a long time ago.
00:16:03.000There was a lot of guys that were like blue belts and purple belts that were opening up schools because they didn't have a real good school around them, and they knew that they could teach at least a base of fundamentals, and if they were really excited and passionate about jiu-jitsu, they would grow with their students.
00:16:19.000Exactly, exactly, and that's exactly what he's doing with us, you know, because I can see Brandon going very far, you know, and being an instructor, going far into jiu-jitsu, you know, but just somebody that, you know, Not looking for anything out of it, you know.
00:16:32.000He never asked me for any money or nothing like that, but he shows me a lot of things that helped me win the fight against Albert Duraya, you know.
00:16:39.000How to get the stand-up, you know, how to get my guard back, you know.
00:16:41.000And, you know, it's just crazy because in that fight, a lot of people had me pick to lose, you know.
00:16:47.000And thinking like, okay, I'll be dry as chains as this big gym, you know, at Extreme Couture and stuff like that.
00:16:56.000But I got the people that's able to work on the things that we need to work on.
00:17:00.000And we do it repeatedly until I get it down.
00:17:02.000And then we're able to show that in the fight, you know?
00:17:05.000And I feel like that's why I'm saying, like, we're actually showing what works within this game, you know?
00:17:11.000Because if you got the right group of people that you're working with that can help advance you in your career and stuff like that, then that's what you need to mesh up with.
00:17:18.000But a lot of fighters feel like they need to move on from the gym that they come from, that they was developing well at, to go to a bigger gym, you know?
00:17:28.000It really does depend upon the environment, who the coach is, what kind of relationship we have with them, but it seems like you've got a good one set up.
00:17:35.000So how do you balance out how much grappling you do versus how much striking you do?
00:19:18.000Like, for me, when I watch him, and obviously, you got some of the best defensive fighter is him.
00:19:24.000But when you watch him fight, you can call it more than if you want to.
00:19:26.000But when you really pay attention in the things that he's doing and how he's, you know, moving around fighters and how he's evading these punches and, you know, able to counter fighters, like, bro, that's very intriguing.
00:20:15.000And that's at 85. That's at 85. So they wanted me to have one more fight at 185. They was like, well, if you want to make this good little money, re-sign at 185, fight CC, and then we can talk about you moving down to 170. Are they opposed to you moving down to 170?
00:20:28.000I don't think they opposed, but they only seen me at 185. Right.
00:20:32.000So they like, well, first off, because there's so many different things because people haven't seen me fight at 170, even though the majority of my fights are welterweight fights, you know?
00:20:40.000Yeah, so the majority of my career since I was 18, since I've been an amateur, everything, and going into pro, I was a 175. But dude, you're pretty fucking swole.
00:20:52.000So, I mean, I think Michael John White talked about it before, too.
00:20:54.000Like, when he's bulking, you know what I mean?
00:20:57.000Like, a lot of people think he's bigger then.
00:20:59.000Well, he is bigger, but they think he's smaller when they see him.
00:21:02.000But when he's cut up, you know what I'm saying, and he's clean, that's when they think he's his biggest because they see all the muscle and it's so defined and everything.
00:22:38.000It's like, when you fight Izzy, I think you're fighting a supercomputer.
00:22:43.000When that dude's standing in front of you and he's throwing all those feints and movements.
00:22:46.000We can debate all day, but my thing is, if I was to fight Izzy, you gotta put that pressure on him, like Kevin Gaston did.
00:22:54.000And now, of course, Izzy could have gotten better from that fight, which he more likely did.
00:22:58.000He certainly did, but still, you've never seen him fight that type of fighter again.
00:23:01.000You know, with Kevin Gaslam been in the southpaw, a shorter fighter, an inside fighter, you know, putting pressure on him, he never fought that type of individual again, you know?
00:23:10.000And I feel like my striking and my stature fits like a Kevin Gaslam, you know?
00:23:15.000And I feel like my footwork is a little better than Kevin Gaslam as well, so I wouldn't just be going straight in.
00:23:33.000But at the same time, like even with Robert Whittaker, a lot of people say he probably won that fight, but I feel like he didn't do enough though, you know?
00:23:39.000There's so many little debates that you can put up behind it, but my thing is I feel like Izzy is able to be finished in certain positions that he put himself in because there's a lot of things that he do Because of his reach, he leans back a lot to try to counter away from punches, right?
00:23:55.000But if you can find that angle and you can see the holes opening there because his body is there, his chin is available, you know, you can find that punch.
00:24:01.000And I felt like Jared Kananir could have exposed a lot of that if he fought the way that he fights a lot of other guys, you know?
00:24:08.000You just have to run the risk of getting knocked out.
00:24:29.000So my biggest thing is just trying to figure out how...
00:24:31.000Mike Tyson, one of my favorite fighters, like, he always put pressures on guys.
00:24:35.000Like, you could knock out Mike if he came towards you, but he was evasive, you know?
00:24:39.000He moving his head the whole We're good to go.
00:24:58.000But if you could have just worked on just keeping your hands up and working inside and moving your angles and stuff, you probably could have did a little better on the second end, which he did, taking him down and trying to, but you trying to game plan on how to take the belt.
00:25:09.000Like, bro, you got to beat that individual.
00:25:11.000And I don't know how you feel about that, but my biggest thing is just like, you can't just like barely beat a champion and be like, all right, it's my belt now, you know?
00:25:53.000I think Robert Whittaker was a way better fighter in the second fight.
00:25:56.000I think losing to Izzy just reignited that fire inside of him.
00:26:00.000I think fighters, and you can speak to this better than me, but I think fighters, they go in sort of cycles.
00:26:06.000Sometimes they're just not totally focused and motivated, or maybe they're overwhelmed by pressure.
00:26:14.000There's so many different things, because you don't never know what's going on outside in their lives and stuff.
00:26:20.000But for Robert Whitaker, he went into the fight as a winner.
00:26:24.000I remember Michael Bisbee saying something like, Robert Whitaker didn't look as confident in the second round, but My thing is, though, like, Robert Whitaker, getting up to that title fight, he's been winning in decisions, right?
00:26:36.000So he got used to just beating guys and taking them to a point where he's just outpointing them, for real.
00:26:42.000You know, even with the Jerry Cannoneer, when he broke Jerry Cannoneer's forearm, It ain't like he was hunting for the finish.
00:26:47.000He's just out pointing, just touching, just touching guys, you know?
00:27:37.000And then when he got to Izzy, He thought he could win the same type of way, you know?
00:27:42.000Well, I think he's also, I think the Izzy fight, it's just my opinion, but I think he was suffering from those fights with Yoel Romero, too.
00:27:51.000When you fight Yoel Romero, that motherfucker takes something from you.
00:29:34.000And he's a guy who talked about having all the stuff in your personal life in order.
00:29:38.000Last time he was here, he's like, you know, a big part of my success is having a stable family life, having a wife, not having any personal problems, no crazy people in your life, no bullshit that drags you down, which is a problem with Yeah, I mean, because it can apply,
00:29:54.000you know, negative energy into your life and into your training, you know what I mean?
00:29:57.000You're not able to focus on the things that's really important, as in, you know, being able to provide for your family, because this is how we eat, you know?
00:30:04.000And if you got to focus on other stuff and try to get your life in order, like a Jon Jones, and that's a crazy thing, Jon Jones be going through crazy stuff.
00:31:45.000But when you're talking about the greatest light heavyweight, maybe the greatest mixed martial artist of all time, let him fight at heavyweight for the title.
00:31:52.000I would have said that probably two years ago.
00:31:54.000But it's time, you know what I'm saying?
00:32:11.000If he can maintain that endurance and keep that kind of pace that he had at light heavyweight at 205, and if you look at the strength and conditioning work that he's doing, man, he's doing it the right way.
00:33:25.000So it was 125 and 135. Yeah, well, he won at 25, but he also won at 35. I feel like him coming back at 35 to fight Aljo is a very legit fight.
00:33:49.000Yeah, like the way he fucked over TJ Dillashaw, he beat the shit out of that dude.
00:33:53.000And I know TJ's shoulder was fucked up, but dude.
00:33:56.000The way Aljamain fought Pyotr Jan in the second fight, he's a champion now.
00:34:00.000There's a thing that happens to a guy when he comes into his own and you go, you know what, I can't wait to see him again because I think he's going to be even better.
00:34:07.000That's how I feel about Aljo right now.
00:34:08.000It's like you realize the confidence is there.
00:34:12.000And when you talk about, for 135, the physique that Aljamain has, the type of shape that he's in, Oh, yeah.
00:34:19.000I'm like, bro, he ain't looking like other 135. He's the perfect 135. It's like the perfect amount of weight cutting.
00:34:40.000That's why I know I'll be cool at getting down to 170 because I ain't got to cut a massive amount of weight.
00:34:44.000And definitely when I clean up my diet, the only probably...
00:34:47.000The biggest I'd probably cut is like 20. Well, if you were walking around at 181 before you fought at 85, that seems easy for you to make 170. You know what I'm saying?
00:35:54.000That was a situation where it was the best case scenario in terms of options.
00:35:59.000Because Kevin Holland had fought at 185 before, and he was available, and he was willing, and then they got in a squabble backstage, and so they said, alright, let's just make this at 180, and Kevin's like, good.
00:36:11.000Because Kevin was already supposed to fight Daniel Rodriguez at 180. All that made sense.
00:37:27.000Daniel Rodriguez, the reason why that made sense, if you look how big he looked against Lee Jingleon, and when I mean big, I mean like carrying body fat.
00:38:55.000So, to have that fight at 180, and then tell Hans, well, I wouldn't say tell Hans, but Hans said himself that the doctor told him to stop cutting weight.
00:39:01.000Hans was like, oh, well, I can make it.
00:39:56.000And my thing is, though, but G-Liang, he had to put in that extra work in order to get that weight down to 170. Because G-Liang is a ripped guy, you know what I mean?
00:40:03.000So I know it's hard to even try to get to the 170 weight class for himself.
00:40:08.000So, you know, he did have a little disadvantage.
00:40:10.000I felt like Gigliang won that fight, too, bro.
00:40:13.000He was most certainly a very close fight.
00:40:17.000But then, you know, and shout out to Neil Magny, who just finished D-Rod, because Neil Magny is one of the most underappreciated guys in the UFC. Yeah, low-key.
00:40:51.000It's slow, but even though when you say, like, oh, it's not boring, it's masterful, but there's a lot of things I be seeing Neil Mackie do, and I be, I ain't gonna lie to you, I be falling asleep.
00:41:02.000Well, speaking of Neil Magny, you know, and I'm glad he got a win because you never know, you know, with the UFC with, you know, losses and stuff like that.
00:41:07.000But that Shabcock kid, though, the undefeated, you know what I'm saying?
00:42:29.000But if you got somebody got decent footwork, good combinations that they put together, which Jeff Neal does have, you know, you seem like, I mean, just pick them apart, just with boxing alone, you know?
00:42:38.000And a lot of those guys with those Dutch styles, you know what I mean?
00:42:40.000I feel like, man, they just be getting touched too much.
00:44:53.000Well, I went into that fight with the wrong mentality.
00:44:56.000The same way I came out in the third, I should have came out in the first and the second.
00:45:00.000Because I was hoping and I was praying because I was, you know, nitpicking on a lot of stuff, you know what I mean?
00:45:04.000I was just talking about where he's from, you know, being Russian, but not being a Frenchman.
00:45:08.000So, like, you ain't got a real home at the end of the day and people love me more than you out here in Paris and I'm getting more love and they don't even know who you are.
00:46:07.000So that's why I'm thinking, like, bro, maybe fighting at my more appropriate weight class, you know?
00:46:12.000It's like George St. Pierre, like, you know, moving up to 185, but he never stayed there because at the end of the day, he already knew that these guys would be big.
00:46:19.000Even if he's better as a fighter, these athletes are just different now, you know what I mean?
00:46:24.000And anything that you're giving up, whether it's size, length, strength, like, these all play a part, you know, when you're messing with some of the best people in the world.
00:46:30.000Yeah, most certainly I think 170 is a much better weight class for you.
00:46:59.000My biggest thing is I'm not afraid to fight guys that's bigger.
00:47:05.000I know that I'm giving up some type of advantage for them because of the attributes and stuff, but at the same time my mentality is that I'm willing to fight and brawl with anybody that stands in front of me.
00:47:17.000You know, because when I started off with MMA, that's all I used to work with was bigger guys.
00:47:20.000And sometimes I was like, oh man, I can actually take the advantage because I'm faster and my footwork is there.
00:48:00.000And at the end of the day, in my humble opinion, MMA is still structured for grappling.
00:48:05.000It's still structured for jiu-jitsu, wrestling, judo, all that other stuff because at the end of the day, you got to grab, you got to clench.
00:48:11.000So I feel like the better grappler is always going to win in MMA. That's just my opinion.
00:49:23.000I'm going to take you down and keep you down.
00:49:25.000So I feel like the majority of grapplers or the better grappler is always going to be the better striker.
00:49:30.000I think it's the most important skill in MMA. Because the grappler has the ability to dictate whether the fight stays up or goes to the ground.
00:49:37.000That's why when a guy like Bo Nickel gets into the MMA world, everybody's like, oh shit.
00:50:01.000And he was a vet, so he had multiple fights in the game.
00:50:03.000And Aaron Pico, even though he's a what?
00:50:05.000Olympic wrestler or something like that and then, you know, golden gloves, boxing, all this stuff, which is cool.
00:50:10.000He didn't have the experience in the MMA cage, which is a little bit different, you know?
00:50:14.000And I feel like if you don't develop these guys' skills and experience first, they can get caught.
00:50:18.000Even though they got all the skill sets in the world, they still just gonna get caught, you know, by somebody that's already been in that, you know, on that level.
00:50:24.000Did you see Aaron's last fight where he blew out his shoulder?
00:51:36.000But it's a common thing where guys blow their shoulders out.
00:51:41.000Have you had any surgeries or any major injuries?
00:51:44.000Yeah, the only time I had surgery was when I got into the USC. Yeah, I had no injuries throughout the fight until I started fighting on the best promotion on the planet, which I'm fighting the best fighters.
00:55:39.000I've always thought like it's kind of weird that the elbows aren't covered by a pad your shins aren't covered by a pad your foots not covered by your heels like they did it old-school like y'all gotta start right in front of each other yeah and just get the bank yeah I mean so I mean I like bare knuckle boxes very interesting but not for me no definitely not for me man yeah if you come with a big check Nah.
00:56:40.000Is there an argument for doing that at MMA for eliminating gloves?
00:56:44.000Because if you don't have pads on your knees and your shins and your elbows and all the other weapons that you hit people with, why do you have pads on your knuckles?
00:56:54.000Well, that's good, but it's the break of the hand, you know?
00:56:58.000Right, but doesn't that make it unrealistic to be able to just wildly punch people?
00:57:01.000I didn't know they were trying to make it realistic.
00:57:02.000I thought they were trying to make it a sport.
00:57:03.000It is a sport, but it's a sport of fighting.
00:57:06.000And if you have no padding on all these other areas...
00:57:09.000So let me show you King of the Streets.
00:58:53.000If you have running shoes on and you're going side to side, you're not fully planted on the ground like you are if you have wrestling shoes on.
00:59:00.000Wrestling shoes would be the way to go.
00:59:44.000But luckily, I was able to mature over time.
00:59:46.000But regardless, though, I didn't see the street element where a lot of guys think because they train jujitsu, because they train boxing, they train MMA, that they're going to be good fighting in the streets.
01:00:04.000But they're not even seeing, like, just the body language, right?
01:00:06.000You're not paying attention to certain stuff, you know?
01:00:09.000And I feel like a lot of guys that train the discipline, which there's nothing wrong with training the discipline, but they use that alone to think that's going to save them.
01:00:17.000You got to actually have the mentality that, like, you know, you are going to end a threat at any given moment by using anything that is necessary at that time, you know?
01:00:26.000And a lot of guys don't do that because I've seen guys on the floor thinking, like, it's a jiu-jitsu match, but it gets stomped out.
01:00:35.000So, I feel like people be having the wrong idea when it comes to, like, jiu-jitsu, wrestling, MMA. Like, that ain't the core element of fighting itself.
01:00:43.000Well, if you're fighting like those guys are on concrete, that is a whole different ballgame.
01:01:58.000Now, if you know this is about to go there, you shouldn't show that you want to fight them.
01:02:03.000You should actually be more calm and be more whatever, and then once they actually make that move, that's when you counter whatever and hit whatever part of the body that you can.
01:02:29.000That's also part of the way you carry yourself.
01:02:31.000Yeah, I walk with respect everywhere I go, you know what I'm saying?
01:02:33.000So I never, like, be out of pocket, never, you know, be out of line, you know what I mean?
01:02:37.000So I never had any situation where anybody would want to fight me, you know?
01:02:42.000But, you know, me working security, I guess I hadn't had opportunities where I could have jacked up a lot of guys.
01:02:47.000You know, definitely when I was younger, I was definitely effing up a lot of guys, but that's not the security job to do.
01:02:51.000You know, you're supposed to de-escalate a lot of situations, but you had a lot of guys that will, you know, try to press your patience, right?
01:02:57.000And I could pop on, but just keep it cool, keep it calm, and try to get people out the smartest way possible.
01:03:03.000Like, hey, bro, you know what I'm saying?
01:03:04.000Let me holler at you outside real quick, you know?
01:04:12.000And regardless though, but those scenarios and dealing with that type of stuff, like I said, I feel like I'm at home when I'm in that octagon, you know?
01:04:20.000Because this is where I feel like I'm free and then I can express myself freely without actually being judged for doing what I'm doing, you know?
01:04:27.000So that's why I love, you know, fighting in the UFC right now.
01:04:30.000Now, when you look at your career going forward, you've got this Chris Curtis fight, you plan on winning that fight, and then you want to drop down to 170. No, I am, point blank.
01:04:42.000I was already planning on moving down to 170, but what my manager told me, I ain't trying to put his stuff out there like that, I'm signing with Sucker Punch, Brian Butler, but he was telling me I can get a better contract if I sign one more fight at 185. Okay.
01:06:34.000So it wasn't that Alex Pereira wouldn't be able to take the fight because I think his coach or whoever his trainer is, the one that declined because of the time frame wasn't messed up.
01:07:06.000Because people call me crazy all the time.
01:07:07.000But I think it's going to be like the same fight that we've seen Yoel and Izzy with.
01:07:11.000Where you got two people just staring each other down, you know, not trying to make that move because, you know, they both had the capabilities of knocking each other out.
01:07:18.000Or Francis Ngannou versus Derrick Lewis, you know what I mean?
01:07:21.000So, and with everything, the hype being behind this fight, too, you know, Izzy is going, hopefully, like I said, if he don't apply his emotions into it like he hasn't done with every other fight...
01:07:30.000I feel like he's going to do enough to win, but I feel like Alex Pereira is not going to be able to apply that pressure on Izzy just because he won't have the energy to sustain that for five rounds.
01:08:36.000But the thing about Izzy, he is patient.
01:08:38.000And he would, well, we're not going to call it boring, but he would strategically break you down all night long for 25 minutes.
01:08:47.000If he gotta touch that leg all day, he gonna touch it.
01:08:51.000You know, if you ain't gonna do nothing about it, if you're not gonna answer back, that's what he gonna do.
01:08:54.000But I feel like in my heart, you know what I mean, that Alex Pereira unfortunately doesn't have the actual ability to fight Izzy the way he needs to win.
01:09:22.000So we've been expecting this from the champ because he's so pulverized outside the cage with, you know, the French tips, the pearl necklace, you know what I mean?
01:09:29.000Doing all these little videos and dancing and all that, just showman stuff.
01:09:33.000But we want to see that showcase in the cage as well, you know?
01:11:12.000You only fight the way you train, you know?
01:11:14.000And not saying you don't work on that element of wrestling, but I don't see is he like shooting a jab, shooting across, shooting a hook, and double it.
01:12:33.000I'm very excited about this fight, man.
01:12:35.000I don't know what kind of preparation he's done in terms of getting himself lighter for a five-round fight and making sure that the cut is not as bad.
01:14:49.000Like, this is the one that, if I wasn't an MMA head, and I was just like, whatever, just watching this stuff, I'm like, oh, okay, that'd be interesting to watch.
01:14:55.000Dude that already knocked him out, this dude is undefeated in MMA, but still could be a close fight, I'd watch it.
01:15:01.000But Izzy is going about his weight, and like I said, I don't know what's going on in his head, but I feel like he's not trying to think about the fight itself, even though it is...
01:15:09.000The press conference and all this other stuff.
01:15:11.000He's trying to get himself more calm, right?
01:15:16.000That's another fighter that talked about that and the reason why he always stayed in the press and in interviews because it took him away from the fight.
01:15:24.000They always wanted to be in the light.
01:17:21.000But just seeing how that guy was able to persevere through that, right, and still clinch up against Alex Pereira and wear him out and make him tired and get him to the ground, and then eventually end up submitting him.
01:17:33.000I was like, bro, I'm going to put that dog work on him.
01:17:36.000That's the type of style that I bring.
01:17:43.000Like, oh, you ain't got that great of conditioning.
01:17:45.000And it's not that you don't work out hard or you don't train hard.
01:17:48.000You're cutting all this weight to get there.
01:17:50.000Your body ain't never going to be 100%.
01:17:51.000I also think that was very early in his approach to MMA. Yeah, low-key, but like six months later, he was in the UFC. Yeah.
01:18:00.000But it was also before he was fighting Glover or training with Glover.
01:18:03.000I think that made a big factor in both Glover and his career.
01:18:06.000Might have, but he's still fighting the same way to me, right?
01:18:10.000Like I said, I look at the last loss, like even with, not even the loss with Izzy, but like with the fight with Kevin Gadsden where he got touched the most, you know?
01:20:04.000And this fight, even though he walked out of it with a decision, that took something away from Bruno.
01:20:09.000When you get a beating like this against a guy like Pajera, you know, that's also how I feel about Francis Ngannou's first fight with Stipe.
01:20:16.000Stipe won that fight, but man, he took a lot of punishment.
01:21:41.000Because at first, I gave that same prediction at first.
01:21:43.000I was like, bro, if these guys fighting at 185, it's going to be the slowest dragged out fight because both of them are going to be depleted.
01:21:48.000But instead, Paula Costa didn't come in.
01:22:41.000You know, that's why I didn't mind, like, one of the main events, because I feel like I could definitely put that pressure, had a conditioning to go 25 minutes on the guys that's in middleweight, right?
01:22:58.000But yeah, these guys, man, it's just crazy just to see the development of 185. So a lot of these guys that's going up into the rankings and stuff like that, if you're not fighting those three guys right there and you don't beat them, you're not going to fight the belt.
01:23:09.000So now that Alex Pereira was able to skip over the head like he was a knight, like you're playing chess, was able to skip over those three pawns, and now he's getting the king.
01:23:18.000I ain't even mad at it because we want to see something that's different.
01:23:22.000In my eyes, though, I just don't see it because I don't believe Alex Perret has the skill set necessary to fight the type of style that we need to see Izzy against.
01:23:32.000And what type of style do you think that is?
01:23:33.000Aggressive, grappler, forward pressure, good hands, Kevin Gaston, right?
01:26:34.000And it's sad because he's saying all these different things and he's talking about having these real conversations that need to be had, but it's coming from him.
01:28:03.000I hate about MMA dudes, like, since we on here.
01:28:06.000Like, a lot of these dudes be like, I'll box Canelo or I'll box, you know what I'm saying, Mayweather and all this stuff, but never get in the actual ring and just train and spar with actual real boxers from, like, whatever the neighborhood.
01:28:20.000I used to actually box with the guys from the neighborhood in Pagedale Boxing, like Josh Temple, Devon Alexander's brother.
01:28:30.000I had to actually work with actual boxers to realize, oh, this is a different type of game.
01:28:34.000But when you're just boxing with the guys that's in the MMA room and you're thinking because you're touching them that you're pretty decent, you're going to find out if you actually get in with a real boxer before you actually compete with them that you don't know what you're doing.
01:28:46.000Because there's certain little combinations and there's certain like cadences that we do as MMA fighters that will get us knocked out in front of a boxer.
01:28:53.000Have you thought about competing as a boxer?
01:29:20.000Anderson Silva also found a boxing coach, I forget who he was working with as well, but you could see him that he was training that art of boxing and he could actually compete in the actual ring back in the day.
01:29:34.000How much time do you think you would need?
01:29:37.000Well, since I've already been working with boxers for a minute and I got a great boxing coach at STL Boxing, Reggie Thomas, shout out to him, I'll probably only need like two, three years to actually find me a profile.
01:35:07.000The fact that he did that, he was able to submit one of the greatest jiu-jitsu guys to ever compete in MMA. And that's another guy that's enormous for that weight class.
01:36:02.000Because, like, you see a Marswood, you see a Diaz, you know what I mean?
01:36:05.000Of course they didn't took losses, but all they needed was a couple wins, a couple good finishes, bro, and their name was, you know what I'm saying, massive.
01:37:48.000I don't know much of Melvin Manoff's past or anything like that, but they were just talking about how you just come from humble beginnings and everything like that and how life was hard.
01:37:56.000And I believe we were talking about Francis Ngannou in the back or whatever, but we were just talking about how great of a fighter he is because of all the things that he had went through.
01:38:05.000And when you see him walk around and the way he carries himself, you can just tell, like, can't nothing faze him.
01:38:48.000So that right there alone, like I said, you can use those as examples that people actually go through to not stop doing what you're doing.
01:38:56.000Because I almost gave up on Dream on some bullshit.
01:39:01.000Back in the past, when I used to have a gym, I finished MMA. That's where I started.
01:39:07.000That's where I developed my skills a little bit.
01:39:10.000But the promoter himself, me and him, we was real close.
01:39:14.000It was almost like on a father and son relationship type thing.
01:39:18.000And at the end of the day, you know, I was never looking at it as business, you know.
01:39:22.000He was always booking me up for fights and always, you know, putting me out there on like a main event or a main card and stuff like that and people would come and watch me fight and I would be cool to do it because I just wanted to fight, you know.
01:40:11.000Bellator comes to St. Louis and they assign, like, the local fighters on the prelim, right?
01:40:16.000You get a one-fight contract deal, but you would just fight the dudes that you would have fought on the local promotion, you know, anyway, but now you just fight them on the Bellator show.
01:40:24.000But I end up showing out for Bellator, end up going crazy.
01:42:55.000So with all this being said, me and the promoter, whatever, we was bumping heads on a lot of things because I was like, bro, I want to learn more.
01:48:19.000And I actually got good at holding mitts, you know what I mean?
01:48:22.000Just because I wanted to see a lot of things and just work a lot of things that he couldn't actually hold for me, so I had to hold it for him, you know, to actually get it down just a little bit.
01:48:32.000And to be honest with you, like I said, That got to show me a lot of different, just creative ways to throw your hands, creative ways to throw combinations.
01:48:40.000Like, you don't have to throw it like a box.
01:48:41.000You don't have to throw it like a kickbox.
01:48:43.000Like, you can add those fun, traditional moves in there with the fundamental basics, you know?
01:48:54.000I wasn't able to find any fights while I was doing this type of stuff.
01:48:57.000How much time was going on here between you leaving that gym?
01:49:00.000So I got cut in 2018. That's when I left the gym, in 2018. And then I was able to get a fight in 2019. It was only a year's time, but I felt like I got played with the two years that...
01:49:12.000In 2016 to 2018, I felt like I got played, you know what I mean?
01:49:17.000And not having that many fights, and I was still struggling as a fighter.
01:49:20.000And I was with Bellator, and I was still struggling low-key.
01:49:31.000So even though it was only like, well, it was kind of close to two years, but it was still just a year and some change that I was able to find another fight, it still felt like it was so stretched out because I didn't see when I was going to be able to find another fight.
01:49:43.000So you were really considering quitting?
01:50:33.000And eat and all this other type of stuff, you know?
01:50:36.000So yeah, I had to go through that first, right?
01:50:39.000And once I went through that, it's funny how once I kept training and kept motivated with just my friends around me, even Mariah Beck, that's one of the kids that trained with me at Phineas MMA, but anytime I called him up, he'll work with me.
01:50:53.000He was one of the guys that came out with me in my first UFC fight, but he passed away.
01:50:58.000But that's another person that I looked to and called in order to get some training in.
01:51:02.000But it was just a small group of guys that I would call up to just ask to get some work in.
01:51:07.000And these guys are the people that I depended on in order to get my mental...
01:51:11.000Just to hit pass outside in Forest Park in St. Louis, you know?
01:51:14.000And this whole time I've been doing that, and I just stopped chasing after the whole goal of getting a fight.
01:51:20.000And then one day, a guy named Mike Rogers hit me up because I was, you know, coming in at his gym, not in and out, but just coming there just to get some sparring work in, you know what I mean?
01:51:28.000But not actually, like, learn anything, but just some sparring work.
01:51:31.000And he told me, like, hey, man, LFA hit me up.
01:51:34.000Like, if you want to, I can give you their number or whatever and then you can contact the matchmaker yourself because he didn't want to do the in-between talk for me.
01:51:41.000Like, he didn't want to be like a management because I didn't have no manager.
01:53:52.000So just to even be able to get there the way we got there is crazy in itself.
01:53:56.000Because like I said, I only took those LFA fights because I needed a little bit of money.
01:53:59.000But I wasn't like, all right, I'm going to be in the UFC one day or I'm working towards to be a UFC champion.
01:54:04.000I just was like, I need money or just for my mental health, I kept training.
01:54:08.000But I want you to speak to the difference in the structure.
01:54:11.000Once you got to this new gym and all this structure that you're praising and the way that your new trainer trains you and the new environment, how much different is that and how much of an impact has that had on your career?
01:54:22.000I think the biggest part of it was just the commitment that they had to me that I never got from that other gym.
01:54:29.000So all the information that I had to find on my own, they had information for me.
01:54:35.000So instead of trying to figure out the information on my own, I already had people that was already great at what they did, and they were showing me stuff.
01:54:42.000And now I'm able to learn a little faster and more efficiently, if that makes sense.
01:54:46.000That is so incredible that you were fighting on a world-class level with no coaching.
01:54:51.000I mean, I did have world-class coaches because you got to just imagine like the people that I've been watching for like influences as instructors on YouTube.
01:54:59.000Like I said, even from yourself, bro, like even if you don't call yourself a coach, like that sidekick, I only knew how to throw a sidekick because I watched your video.
01:55:13.000But even though you showed the internet and everything and YouTube, you showed a thousand if not a million people that kick.
01:55:21.000But it's about people actually taking that information and applying it to their own life if they want to.
01:55:26.000And that's why I like Bruce Lee so much because Like, that's why, you know, Jeet Kune Do is such an awesome style because it was his own style.
01:55:33.000It was his own form of fighting that he took and he mastered, but he took it from other places.
01:55:38.000And he did it back when that was taboo.
01:56:15.000I mean, we getting there, but I still haven't seen that actual, like, for real, on some boy good.
01:56:20.000Like I said, man, I'm from, like, you know what I mean, watching a lot of movies and stuff, but, like, you know, one of those complete fighters, you know, except for, like, Demetrius, you know what I mean, or GSP, you know?
01:56:31.000There ain't a lot of those out there, though, in my opinion.
01:56:33.000Well, I think you're seeing more of them now than ever before, but we have to also take into consideration that MMA, in terms of real sports, is relatively recent.
01:56:41.000There's no sport like MMA where if you go and watch the fighters from 1993 and watch them from 2022, they're completely different.
01:56:50.000Yeah, because the athlete changes, though.
01:56:53.000So that's why I would say that, but I feel like, yet again, so Habib, perfect example, he retired.
01:56:59.000He was only winning in one type of way.
01:57:13.000But I'm just trying to think, good people that...
01:57:16.000They fight a certain type of style, which is great for them, and it fits their way, but a Hamza, I wouldn't call him a complete fighter.
01:57:24.000I feel like he's just great at what he does, and if he's able to fight another grappler, he's able to switch it up to a striking prowess, but even then, Gilbert Burns was touching him.
01:58:55.000Everything just with power and intention to knock you out, which is great and all, but you're still putting yourself in a position to get hurt.
01:59:02.000Were you stunned by that Kevin Holland fight with him?
01:59:17.000Like, I come from a wrestling background.
01:59:19.000Like, bro, I was a trash-ass wrestler in high school, you know?
01:59:23.000It took me years to kind of understand what wrestling is, and I'm still trying to figure it out.
01:59:27.000But I know I'm a better wrestler than the majority of guys that's at the 185 division, some of them, you know?
01:59:33.000But now I'm going to have to focus on grappling even more because I'm going to a grapple Heavy division, which is at 170, you know?
01:59:41.000You have Hamza, Kobe Covington, Kamar Uzman, you know what I'm saying?
01:59:46.000These guys are grappling heavy, so if I'm able to get up to that level and be able to compete with them, it just stuffed the shot.
01:59:53.000I know that they couldn't compete with me on the feet.
01:59:57.000When you think about your transition from being self-coached to now being on your own team, It's like you have so much potential right now.
02:00:08.000There's so much potential to get even so much better.
02:00:12.000Even with my grandmother, her daughter, my auntie, came back to live with her, to take care of her because I wouldn't be able to be in the UFC if I had to keep taking care of my grandma.
02:00:31.000And it was sad because I had to leave my grandmother in the bed, you know, in order to go to work, to Walgreens, but I had to have a close job.
02:00:38.000And I had to keep a monitor to watch her to make sure that she was fine.
02:00:41.000You know, and everything that she needed, I had to leave the job.
02:00:43.000You know, and I had to work overnights at Walgreens in order to make sure I check up on her throughout the day.
02:00:49.000So I had to work the night shift, you know what I mean?
02:01:05.000My grandmother had a stroke and they gave her 72 hours to live and she wound up living for 12 years.
02:01:13.000And I was there with my grandfather when my grandfather was taking care of her 24-7.
02:01:17.000One thing that imparted upon me is that life is short, and that you gotta appreciate your health and your ability to do things now.
02:01:26.000And appreciate it in a way where, knowing my grandmother when I was young, when she was this wild lady, and then seeing her, my grandmother went to jail for running numbers for the mob.
02:03:51.000You know, so having her go through this type of experience and being able to see what she goes through, but how she's still able to hold her head high is beautiful.
02:04:00.000And now, you know, and I feel like every fighter is not just their skills, but an accumulation of their life experiences that give them character.
02:04:10.000And that most certainly gave you character.
02:04:14.000Like I said, man, my granny took the responsibility up when nobody else wanted it, you know?
02:04:18.000Like I said, I was, you know, with my mom and stuff, being a single mom, she raised me, so I was with her all the time.
02:04:24.000Every single day I was with my mom, you know what I mean?
02:04:26.000And if I wasn't with her, I was with my godmother, you know?
02:04:29.000So I was around a lot of women at the time, and like I told you before, like, the male influences, the only thing I got was from TV and watching, you know, movies all the time.
02:04:37.000You know, so having that, you know, and doing what I was doing, you know, it's just crazy that, you know, once my mother had passed away, unfortunately, some of the people that was in my life before left, too.
02:04:52.000So, like, the people I used to always see or hang out around that was around my mom a lot when she passed away, you know what I'm saying?
02:04:58.000It's like they passed away with her, you know, type stuff.
02:05:00.000So my granny was the only person that really took the responsibility of raising me and taking forth that because I went through like a depressing stage like you know I mean I was never like um what's the word like never seen a therapist or nothing but like I felt like I went through a depressing stage after I lost my mom and it took me a while to even like speak to people you know.
02:05:20.000It ain't like I turned mute or nothing, but it took me a while to even just be around other people because I was just so upset that the person that I was around all the time was just completely gone.
02:05:32.000And it took a minute for me to just accept the fact that she was gone.
02:05:37.000I won't even say get over it, but I just forgot about my mom ever existing to get over the whole fact that she was gone in the first place.
02:05:48.000I didn't even go to her burial, nothing.
02:05:52.000I couldn't take it, you know what I'm saying?
02:05:54.000So I was just like, man, maybe if I just forget about it, it'd be cool, whatever.
02:05:59.000But on top of that, just understanding that life is short, like you were saying before, it's good just to go for your dreams and stuff like that.
02:06:08.000Because I ain't trying to bounce into too much stuff, but Before, my granny even had ALS and stuff, and I was still in high school.
02:06:31.000And being raised by so many women, like, you feel like you're the man the whole time, you know?
02:06:35.000So eventually my grandmother ended up asking for my father's help in order to come back into my life and stuff like that and try to raise me, you know what I mean, or help raise me.
02:06:42.000And I'm like 16 at the time, you know what I'm saying, 15 at the time.
02:06:46.000And this is my first time really even meeting this man.
02:07:20.000It's from my pops, because my pops used to wrestle as well back in the day.
02:07:23.000So when I used to wrestle in high school, I thought I was somebody special.
02:07:26.000So when I got into it with my dad, whatever, and we was in the kitchen and stuff like that, you know, I thought I had the upper hand because, you know what I'm saying, I'm wrestling and whatnot.
02:07:35.000And I remember I threw a punch, he blocked, he hit me dead in my chest, right?
02:08:22.000But the thing is, I never even got a chance to even try to talk to him and get to know him because I never, like, actually went about the opportunity to talk to him and speak to him.
02:08:31.000Because he was almost like a big brother to me because we were both living with my grandpa, which is his dad.
02:08:37.000So I feel like it was more like a big brother relationship between me and him.
02:08:42.000And when I lost him and I didn't get the opportunity to actually experience him like I should have, by the time I wanted that, he was already gone.
02:08:51.000But I mean, going as a teenager and just meeting him for the first time, you can't put that on you.
02:09:29.000And it was only like a year time, too.
02:09:31.000It was only about, like, a year where we was able to, like, actually be in the same household and actually speak to one another.
02:09:37.000But everything that he used to do, I'd be like, there's certain things that I did as well that I was always wondering where I get it from, you know?
02:10:19.000I mean, George St. Pierre was bullied when he was young, and that's what got him into martial arts, but he had a very good relationship with his parents.
02:10:36.000I mean, like I said, your experiences alone can prepare you for fights.
02:10:39.000And that's what makes some of the best fighters in the world.
02:10:42.000But I feel like with everything that I went through, I guess you could say it prepared me for fighting, but it really showed me, and this is what I'm trying to get to, and I ain't trying to put all this shit together, but losing my mom and losing my dad just showed me, bro, just go for it.
02:13:03.000Yeah, only 28. You have a giant future ahead of you.
02:13:06.000Especially knowing your background now, knowing how little real formal training you've had, and the fact that you've reached this level of proficiency and skill and accomplishment.
02:13:19.000You're in a really great spot right now, especially now dropping down to 170 pounds, which is your natural weight class, where you're not going to be at a disadvantage physically, like in the Nordean fight.
02:13:30.000I think everything plays a part, and everything happens for a reason, so I'm glad I fought at 185. I'm glad I was able to develop my name in the middleweight division and stuff like that.
02:13:42.000Because it's not gonna make it harder to go down to 170 and fight a couple of other, you know, ranked good names instead of starting all the way back over.
02:13:49.000Well, you know, you fight guys like Imamov, who's like, what is his natural weight?
02:14:28.000And also with this structured training and the fact that you really do have relatively little in comparison to the amount of time you've been fighting.
02:14:44.000It's like you accomplished a lot with that.
02:14:48.000And now having very structured training and being in your physical prime and going down to a natural weight class, I mean, once you get past Chris Curtis, if you get past Chris Curtis...
02:14:59.000No, no, but it's just that when I'm Italian, this is all the preparation that I've been putting in and doing and just taking the time and opportunity to actually promote the fight for myself.
02:15:30.000So the last fight that I got, not on my contract, but of the year, because this will be my fourth fight that I had, you know what I'm saying, within one year, you know, and that's a big deal to me.
02:15:39.000And I feel like I really need to show out for this one, you know, because I've never been a fighter either to lose back-to-back.
02:15:44.000Because if I'm not learning in the gym, I'm learning from those fights.
02:15:50.000I think you did learn from that fight.
02:15:51.000And what you're talking about with that third round that you should have fought that way in the first round, isn't that a big part of the whole experience of having high-level competition?
02:17:03.000And just talking about, like, you know, what the soldiers had went through and how they had to, you know, keep fighting and keep going up that hill doing so many obstacles and dodging bullets and all this other stuff.
02:17:20.000Wow, all this history lesson and then the workout.
02:17:24.000Yes, sir, and it gets me pumped, you know what I'm saying?
02:17:25.000Like, because it's just a reminder, like, bro, like, like, it's a mentality thing, you know, what you go through and then how you take the fight or how you take your training.
02:17:35.000Seriously, you know, you got to make that switch.
02:17:38.000You can't just go through a workout and be like, all right, man, I'm going to just get this done, like, you know, like, live or die, like, I'm training for, like, war.
02:17:44.000Point blank period, you know, and that's what I love about them.
02:17:47.000So we do a lot of, you know, Cool, unique things, man, with him, but he makes sure to push me to my limits, you know.
02:17:53.000Now, how do you balance out strength and conditioning workout with skill workout?
02:17:58.000Like, what is your, like, a week's work with you structured?
02:18:01.000So, Monday through Friday, man, so I'm in the gym, point blank period, and I even work out Saturday and Sunday, but I be doing my own thing, you know.
02:18:10.000But Monday, we do HPI work, so that's strength and conditioning.
02:18:14.000On that same Monday, we do striking MMA work with my head coach, whatever.
02:21:31.000I still eat whatever I want to, you know, being at 185. So was he doing, like, meal prep, or he It gives you pre-portioned meals and then you just save them for the week?
02:22:05.000But the thing about just the regular ice plunge that you have to do, I feel like it's more mental because you can stay in there a little bit longer, you know what I mean?
02:22:16.000I feel like just for the attitude and getting to the ice plunge and stuff like that, that's what I think it's great for.
02:22:21.000But I feel like cryo, I like cryo a little bit more.
02:22:24.000For inflammation in my arms or if my body aches, if I have anything going on, I feel like cryo will get me right real quick because I only get to be in there for like three minutes.
02:24:17.000It is unfortunate, but I've been blessed and I've been fortunate enough to be able to fight the way I'm fighting and I've been rewarded for it.
02:24:29.000I feel like a lot of fighters, if they put more on the line and they go out and actually try to take a little bit more risk, They could potentially, you know, be on the other side, but at the same time, it's all about winning, you know what I mean?
02:24:40.000But unfortunately, you see some guys that win some fights, whatever, but they're not exciting, they're not fun, and you don't see where their career takes them, and they don't make a lot of money, which you see, like you said, they got another job, they still training, they still, you know, trying to find sponsors, whatever, just to pay some certain bills and stuff like that,
02:24:57.000you know, so it's that risk and reward factor, you know?
02:25:00.000So if you're willing just to win but not be exciting, you know what I mean?
02:25:02.000Just realize you're not going to get the money that you're really looking for.
02:25:06.000I guess that's the harder route, I feel like, unfortunately.
02:25:17.000And I feel like a lot of guys don't train that way.
02:25:20.000And I've been training like that for a long time.
02:25:22.000And I wouldn't even say I'm a hard guy to spar or nothing like that, but I'm trying to touch you, though.
02:25:27.000You know, I mean, we see it in kickboxing, we see it in boxing, how those guys spar, now those guys spar, for real.
02:25:33.000They be trying to knock dudes out, you know?
02:25:35.000And I feel like some guys in the MMA culture, whatever, they just want to touch, like, man, I don't really want to hurt, you know, so we just going to touch like this and just tag each other.
02:25:44.000But I feel like that plays a part in your fights too, you know?
02:25:47.000And a lot of guys get touched up even more because of that in a fight instead of actually taking it serious and sparring.
02:25:53.000Because they're not used to sparring hard.
02:26:33.000And I love the fact that you're dropping down to 170. No, big facts, man.
02:26:36.000And before that, though, too, like, before we even end off on that, you know, because I said I wanted to fight at 170, you asked me, like, who's some names?