In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, we discuss the Jimi Hendrix and Lenny Bruce mug shots, and why they are so iconic. We also talk about how the idea for the podcast came about, and what it means to be a rock and roll hero when you get arrested for a crime you didn't even commit. And we talk about why it s so important to break the rules and do the things that society says you should do, even when you re not supposed to do them. And, of course, we talk a lot about drugs and rock n' roll, which is a weird thing to talk about, but we do it anyway, so why not talk about it? We hope you enjoy this episode, and if you like it, please leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and we'll read out your comments and thoughts on the next episode! Thank you so much for being a part of the podcast, and supporting the pod! - it means a lot to us and we appreciate you. - Joe and the rest of the crew - Thank you for your support and support the pod - we really do appreciate it. Thanks to our sponsors, we really appreciate it and we're working hard to make this podcast as much as we can. XOXO - Joe Rogans Experience Podcast - The Crew at J.R. Rogan and the J. Rogans Podcast. Thank you, and the people who make it all the best. , and we love you back here at The J.J. Podcasts and we really really, really appreciate you, thank you for supporting us, we appreciate your support, we can't thank you, really really much, really, truly, really much. Love ya, much much, much, Thank you. - Thank You, bye, bye. Thank You. - MRS. - Joe, R.A. - EJ and R. & J.Y. - P.S. - J. & K. & D.B. - A.E. - B. & S. - S.M. - R. and J. - D. & P. (A. ( ) - M. & B. (AY ( ) - E. ( ) ( ) Thank you J. (J. & R. (S. (B. & M. )
00:00:50.000I was in Hawaii and I'm a giant Jimi Hendrix fan.
00:00:55.000That's why I named the podcast Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:58.000I ripped off the Jimi Hendrix Experience and I was in Hawaii and I went to this art gallery and they had all this rock and roll art and they had this really dope collaboration of Hendrix, his mugshot was like six,
00:02:00.000I just found mug shots and I just started collecting them.
00:02:02.000Like I said, my screensaver was that for like a year.
00:02:05.000And I even had Sinatra in my room Big, you know, a big one on the wall and whatnot, and I'm like, you know, what is this shit about?
00:02:14.000It occurred to me, like, everybody that became an icon and became a legend, like, you have to break the rules.
00:02:19.000There's nobody who just, like, followed every rule and that's what they're famous for.
00:02:22.000Like, hey, this guy never stepped out of line, did everything that everyone said he was supposed to do, did it all the ways that you're within the rules, and that's the fucking legend that you love.
00:03:24.000But if I had to really put my finger on it, I would say that those images represent these moments where society tried to contain these wild people.
00:03:35.000These people that were breaking the rules.
00:03:37.000These people that were trying to change culture.
00:03:38.000These people that were just doing their thing.
00:03:40.000And it wasn't like they weren't popular.
00:03:44.000I think Jim Morrison pulled his dick out, right?
00:04:00.000I know a lot of people have pulled their dick out.
00:04:02.000It's a weird thing, like that moment where the society that's trying to contain these artists lashes out and captures them briefly, but they don't even realize they're just making them bigger.
00:09:32.000And I don't mean necessarily just the oppression of being an underclass, but fighting is part of their tradition, almost like it is to Mexicans in Mexico.
00:09:40.000It's something that they do that bonds the clan.
00:09:56.000He's got a history coming to any fight bringing what he experiences in this country to this element of the face-off one man, one man versus one man.
00:10:06.000So, When Tyson Fury is on stage during the press conference, it's something that possessed him to say, you know, I'm coming from a fighting people.
00:10:15.000My people have been fighting for 200 years.
00:10:17.000Well, in context, he means that the culture of travelers, of gypsies, is one of, we're fighting men.
00:10:50.000It's not like he's fighting Dominic Brazile, you understand, where it's two Americans, probably not going to get that much international attention.
00:10:58.000The world's watching, particularly communities that don't necessarily know when a black man says 400 years, you know, I know, you know, because we grew up in America, you know what we're talking about.
00:11:19.000He loves to talk about the plight of the black man in America and how it relates to his career, how he feels, you know, disadvantaged in certain ways and he carries the mantle in other ways.
00:11:30.000He's a champion of black America in certain ways and he's a victim of white America in other ways.
00:11:35.000So, when I see this argument happening, I'm like, oh, okay, well this is definitely a moment.
00:12:11.000I'm going to kind of mail this one in, to be honest.
00:12:13.000I'm thinking, let me throw something out because I know what he's talking about and I also know that the audience around us, in the world especially, may not have caught that reference.
00:12:49.000He comes off stage, he answers a couple of other questions, and then, just to be sure, because I've been doing this a long time, I'm not an idiot, I know he's amped, and I want him to get the question clearly.
00:13:00.000Deontay, Radio Raheem, I say my name so he knows who it's coming from.
00:13:06.000Not because he doesn't know me, but because he does!
00:13:09.000So, Radio Raheem, you just said your people have been fighting for 400 years.
00:13:14.000Okay, first of all, I'm in the midst of my question.
00:13:23.000But in the ears of Black America later in the story, you'll find out that your people, that part of the question, became incredibly important.
00:13:33.000And people were very sensitive about that.
00:13:36.000Because you said your people instead of our people.
00:13:38.000Because I said your people instead of our people.
00:14:29.000I'm trying to get him to explain to the world what he's said to me on numerous occasions in different interviews and off camera.
00:14:38.000I know exactly what he's talking about, and I know that this is the moment that he finally gets to talk about it to people who have never been listening to him before.
00:16:03.000Not to know, like some, you know, air quotes, Uncle Tom or whatever, you know, the numerous names I've been called on the internet since, as though I'm trying to pretend like, oh, I don't, what 400 years?
00:19:38.000And then he's written, like, a paragraph, essentially, about having to, like, you know, teach people, like, basically not to be Uncle Tom, and how you gotta, like, straighten it out, and, like, there's a whole, like, civil rights diatribe, and I'm the pincushion,
00:21:57.000They've been giving him stick overseas for not being known anywhere.
00:22:02.000They're saying you can walk down the street and, you know, Eddie Hearn did this video where he's asking people in New York, like, do they know who Deontay Wilder is?
00:22:09.000And he made a whole video of them saying no.
00:22:11.000So at this moment, you also have to give context of what's happening in his career.
00:22:14.000At this moment, he's knocking everybody out.
00:24:29.000Just verbally that they didn't know or that he didn't come to the room expecting to share.
00:24:36.000And I support People understanding the culture from which he, we, come as black Americans.
00:24:46.000I wanted to give him the stage to do exactly that.
00:24:49.000Didn't turn out like I expected, but it did become an iconic civil rights, I guess, type of moment.
00:24:56.000It became one of those things that people identify with.
00:24:59.000Black power, black information being like, yo, this is what we're experiencing.
00:25:05.000And this is how deep it still runs at that time in 2018. Did you think about it, like, in retrospect, how could I have phrased that better?
00:26:14.000But the ones who do, there's enough who do, so I'm telling you, Joe, every day since then, it's been over a year now, someone, somewhere, every time I've left my home, and sometimes while I'm still in it, has shouted in my face, TO THIS DAY! That's how they say hello!
00:29:41.000They know that I think they know I'm not an idiot, and I like to think they know I'm not a sellout, but they don't really know me because I don't ever make it about me.
00:29:52.000This interview we're having is a unicorn.
00:29:56.000I've maybe done three or four or five of these in my entire life where I'm talking about my perspective on anything.
00:30:02.000I'm entirely showing up at every press conference, every fight, every weigh-in, every media workout, trying to get something out of the fighter to be consumed by the audience in a way that maybe they hadn't seen it before.
00:30:17.000Not just for the audience's sake, but I want the fighter to get in touch with something.
00:30:21.000There's so many of these platitude questions and the same old shit, and nobody's really digging deep.
00:31:54.000There's one where like, remember when Larry Merchant was talking to Floyd Mayweather, he's like, you were 20 years younger, or if I was 20 years younger, I'd kick your ass.
00:32:46.000I feel like what Merchant did that people objected to was he had his own standard by which you had to win the fight and by which you had to get his respect even if you won.
00:33:14.000If you were Howard Cosell or if you were anyone who was commenting on sports, you really could kind of get away with it other than what radio guys would say about you or journalists would say about you.
00:33:24.000But the regular person didn't have a say.
00:33:41.000In fact, I encourage a regular person to have something to say.
00:33:44.000It's these strange motherfuckers that are like, really should probably pipe down.
00:33:49.000If you, and you do, because you're on YouTube and you're on the internet, the amount of comments that are useful or thoughtful or like, eh, okay, interesting.
00:36:17.000I think that the internet now is to a place where you can drag people, you can change their lives, you can actually put them in harm's way by stirring up a fervor around being violent towards them, that everybody should have to be identified on the internet.
00:36:32.000I don't believe in this anonymous Posting, shit posters, all this shit.
00:36:36.000The problem with that is there's a lot of people that have things to say that are important.
00:36:39.000They don't want to suffer consequences at work or their job.
00:36:42.000They want to be able to whistle blow and say, hey, there's like some safety problems here or there's some sexual harassment here or there's this or that.
00:36:49.000There's benefits to being anonymous and then there's negative aspects of it.
00:36:59.000I feel like if someone is saying some horrible shit, then yes.
00:37:05.000But if someone is just explaining something that's going down, like, there's people that have talked about, like, unfair labor practices or things that are going down at work, and they literally have to be anonymous in order to leak this information.
00:37:17.000Particularly if they're talking about someone from another country and they're doing it through a VPN. Like, they have to do it this way.
00:39:15.000But just throwing yourself into the wolves of the comments, covering yourself up with fucking blood and just leaping into the pen of wolves.
00:39:24.000I am willing to throw myself on the fire just to pick out the few little pieces of charcoal that I can use to warm my next interview.
00:39:33.000I don't consider myself one of these people who come to an interview with an agenda and I've got a point of view and the fighter has to answer to me.
00:39:44.000More so, I'm gleaning from the audience what it is that they want to know.
00:39:50.000Perspectives that I may disagree with personally, but I want to present their perspective to people they can't get at or talk to.
00:39:58.000So I have to be listening to what they're saying and understand how they're consuming information.
00:40:03.000You don't have to be listening to what they're saying about you.
00:40:05.000Say if you were talking about, you know, you're going to interview Canelo or someone through an interpreter, you would, you know, there's plenty of people with perspectives on Canelo.
00:40:14.000You don't have to listen to anything they have to say about you.
00:42:46.000But you have to look at it this way, I think.
00:42:48.000I mean, you don't have to, but this is my perspective.
00:42:50.000This thing that can abuse us, the internet, with comments and 15-year-old assholes saying mean shit to you.
00:42:58.000What it also is, is an avenue for you to put your stuff out there that would not have existed before.
00:43:05.000Before, you would have had to been hired by CBS or ABC or whoever, name it.
00:43:10.000You don't have to be hired by anybody anymore.
00:43:13.000But the other side of that is the comment section.
00:43:16.000Now, you could be one of those guys that turns the comment section off, but...
00:43:19.000Man, I don't think that's a good idea.
00:43:22.000I don't think that's a good idea either.
00:43:23.000We accidentally had the comment section turned off back when we used to stream...
00:43:28.000Because we were streaming live and it wasn't that we turned it off, but we had it off.
00:43:33.000We had the chat off on the streaming because people would just like say a bunch of rude shit just so that other people had to read it while the podcast was going on.
00:43:42.000I'm like, look at these people are just taking advantage of this.
00:43:44.000But something happened when we flipped it over to live.
00:45:03.000And they'd be digging those tweets up now and, like, canceling you today.
00:45:07.000Well, they're doing that to kids now that get gigs.
00:45:09.000And then they're finding their tweets when they were 17 and 18 years old.
00:45:12.000And now they're 24. Like, hey, it's a different fucking human being, man.
00:45:16.000Like, we need a path to redemption for people.
00:45:19.000And Twitter and Facebook and all these comments that are permanently on the record, they make it really difficult for kids.
00:45:27.000I would not want to be in high school today with a Twitter account saying the dumbest fucking shit in the world and then having that come back to haunt me when I want a job someday.
00:45:36.000You don't know what the world's going to be like in 15 years.
00:46:58.000If you're a real comedy fan, like if you go see Dave and he's working some shit out at the store, you're not going to film it and put it online.
00:48:08.000I've been doing Yonder bags for years.
00:48:10.000The first time I ever used them, the Denver Comedy Works actually started using them independently.
00:48:17.000And the first time I had heard about them, It's been a few years, but comics, like Ali Wong, she used them at all her shows.
00:48:26.000I used them a lot up until my last Netflix special, and then I got tired of using them.
00:48:30.000It's just like, I'm like, I don't want to tell people to put their fucking phone away.
00:48:34.000You know, the most hilarious thing was Miami, because Miami is such a party town, right?
00:48:39.000And half the audience is probably coked up.
00:48:41.000And it was the only audience when they had the yonder bags where they just kept getting up and going outside because they wanted to use their phone.
00:48:47.000They didn't just sit down and enjoy the show.
00:48:50.000Most places, 99.99999%, everybody just sits down.
00:48:54.000And they go, alright, my phone's in the bag, now let me just enjoy the show.
00:49:17.000Well, they would definitely keep coming back, but it was just like, it's hilarious what the culture of Miami is so different than anywhere else.
00:50:30.000It really does feel like another country.
00:50:32.000I do love about this phone thing and people sharing so much when I talk about the different cultures in combat sports.
00:50:38.000That gives me access to everybody being on their phones.
00:50:43.000The one thing that's everywhere is YouTube.
00:50:46.000I don't know if you know this, but like you said...
00:50:50.000There was a time when the only way you could have a voice or certainly comment on boxing or MMA or sports is if you got hired by a major network that had a reach where people could see you.
00:51:00.000Somebody has to die before you get that job.
00:52:22.000And so, I'm covering headline news and whatever a fucking 10th grader thinks is important and who won the football game and this kind of shit.
00:52:29.000But I always thought that I'm going to be a talk radio guy.
00:58:57.000What I did with this footage, ultimately, was I took it and went to an editor named Brian Hardy, who was the editor for Max Boxing at the time, and he got Doug Fisher, who's now the editor-in-chief of Ring Magazine, and I to commentate that footage as though you're watching it on HBO. Oh,
00:59:34.000It was like the first big boxing thing on the internet at all.
00:59:39.000And so I would go around to different gyms and get fighters, and they all started at wildcard, and then I would branch out and get fighters to agree, let me shoot the sessions and turn it into a show called Gym Wars.
01:01:09.000But the way that I relate to and understand fighters and what it is that's inside them, that they're experiencing, that's driving them, I think is unique.
01:01:19.000Because although I would never, ever classify myself as a fighter, that's such a...
01:01:26.000A unique and cherished banner that you can really hold if that's really what you do.
01:04:20.000But the first time I interviewed Manny Pacquiao was at the Vagabond Hotel, which is now torn down because it was condemned, next door to the gym.
01:04:29.000On an air conditioner, one of those protruding air conditioners from the wall, with seven other guys in his hotel room, all living in the hotel room.
01:04:39.000It's me and Manny Pacquiao on an air conditioner doing a one-on-one.
01:04:43.000Doesn't he have that thing where if he has a house out here, he'll have 20 dudes living with him?
01:07:44.000You gotta really know what the fuck you're talking about.
01:07:46.000And Steven's thing is being entertaining and being dismissive of people and, you know, kind of in an arrogant way and, you know, insulting.
01:08:02.000That shit does not fly in MMA. These guys are literally fighting for their life.
01:08:06.000I mean, they literally are moments from death several times in certain fights.
01:08:12.000There's moments where guys are out cold and you see a guy dropping an elbow on their face and smashing their orbital bone before the referee can get to them.
01:08:20.000You can't make fun of those guys in that way.
01:08:51.000The reason why Deontay was so amped up and wild before that fight, you're not going to see a basketball player like that four days before the NBA Finals.
01:09:00.000They'll be tuned up and ready to go, but they're not ready to go to war.
01:09:04.000They're literally putting their fucking health on the line.
01:09:09.000Of course, we respect all sports, but this kind of...
01:09:15.000The risk that you're taking and the individuality of it.
01:09:19.000Even though you got a guy in the ring, got a cut man, you got somebody working your corner, it really is just you out there when that bell rings.
01:09:27.000And you're not just fighting the guy you're looking at.
01:09:30.000You're fighting the guy inside you that wants to quit.
01:09:33.000You're fighting the guy inside you that thinks that last punch really hurt.
01:09:36.000You're fighting the guy inside you that's like, you know, I probably made enough money.
01:09:39.000I don't probably need to do this shit anymore.
01:09:43.000Everything that goes into not just being a successful fighter, but being a respected fighter, a fighter at all.
01:09:51.000Everyone's seen that clip of the guy climb through the ropes, the bell rang, he climbed out of the ropes and walked back into the locker room.
01:09:57.000There's a little bit of that in everybody and you're fighting him too.
01:10:38.000You can't criticize somebody as though they are just doing what you're doing because, oh, I'm talking, I got a job, I'm an important guy, I'm at this level of shit, so...
01:11:04.000So the kind of love that you have for combat sports, the kind of love that you have for what it is that you comment on, it comes through because you do it.
01:11:11.000But I've been doing it almost half my life now, in terms of commenting on it.
01:11:15.000I've been doing martial arts since I was a fucking baby, basically.
01:11:48.000Like, and this is, for the Mexican community, it's huge, having their first Mexican heavyweight champion, but it's also like, wow, this is a crazy division.
01:11:56.000Look, you got Deontay just knocks the fuck out of Luis Ortiz with that one punch to the forehead.
01:12:13.000Now, what you're talking about earlier is exemplified in what happened after the Ruiz fight, where you see, like you say, a chubby guy, that's fair, the guy's chubby!
01:12:32.000And if you think just because he's chubby, you can take a knock at the guy, especially after he won the title, as though he won the lottery or he won a scratch-off, and this shit just happens, it doesn't.
01:12:44.000It reminded people of what the heavyweight division is.
01:13:57.000I think it's great that he got his title back, but I felt like one thing that happened in that fight that disturbed me was even though Ruiz came in out of shape and clearly didn't look like he was prepared correctly,
01:14:14.000Joshua did never really enforce his will on him.
01:14:19.000He never really had a moment where he was beating the fuck out of him.
01:14:22.000Where he was like, you know, I trained hard for this fight.
01:14:35.000That is in stark contrast to the way Deontay finishes fights.
01:14:40.000Which is why that matchup is so intriguing, which is why no matter what happens between the two of them, hopefully they remain undefeated for their own sakes and can make that unification fight.
01:14:52.000I saw his commitment to discipline, Joshua I'm talking about, as a good thing.
01:14:58.000Oh, it's definitely a good thing because he won the title back.
01:15:00.000But when you make the argument who's the best heavyweight in the world, if you have to look at it on paper, I don't think it's him right now.
01:15:08.000I think it's Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder, depending on what happens on the 22nd.
01:15:13.000I lean towards Deontay because he can close the show at any moment.
01:15:17.000That 12th round, I was in bed and I was watching the fight and I went, Oh, shit!
01:16:18.000It looked like he was in another dimension.
01:16:20.000Can you think of any other fight in the countless fights that you've covered where the main highlight of the fight is just the guy getting up?
01:18:42.000You know, sometimes fighters, they hit this point in their career where they don't have the same level of commitment that they did when they first started fighting.
01:18:50.000And when Kovalev, in the early days, man, when he was the crusher, you know, he was fucking everybody up, man.
01:19:28.000And not ever really recover from the lack of invincibility that he found himself in on a fight like everybody thought he was going to win going away.
01:19:59.000Even though that kind of thing is salacious, and I would love to know for sure, I feel like if you turn up on the night, and you get to that first bell ringing, we're in a fight.
01:20:09.000Everybody's struggling with something.
01:20:11.000You know, my hand hurts, I pulled a hamstring I'm not telling you about.
01:20:14.000The other thing they said, and this is even more widely reported, is that Joshua had a bit of a panic attack in the dressing room before the fight.
01:20:23.000The sparring thing, I think, could happen to anybody, and then it's a question like, do we go on?
01:20:27.000But here's the thing, if he was suffering from the residual effects of being KO'd, and then he's like, I really shouldn't be fighting right now, fuck, I can't believe I have to fight right now, and then he's starting to freak out.
01:20:37.000Because I know that's happened in MMA. In MMA, that's definitely happened, where guys have been KO'd badly in the training before the fight, and then they get to the fight and they really shouldn't be fighting, and they know it.
01:24:12.000But what we saw in the Ruiz for the Luis Ortiz fight Was that he started to use the discipline of patience.
01:24:21.000He wasn't chasing the knockout anymore.
01:24:23.000He was relying on it, which is a taboo, but he knew when that moment came, he'd be in position to fire, and he believed when he fired, he'd win.
01:27:50.000It's not like we're short of people that understand it.
01:27:52.000In MMA, we have an additional problem, is that we go to places like we were in Texas this past weekend, and we had terrible judging.
01:27:58.000And those people weren't even, some of them weren't even MMA judges.
01:28:02.000They had backgrounds in boxing, and they transitioned over to MMA. And some of them really didn't understand what was going on, and there was really, really bad decisions.
01:28:34.000There's a lot of legit MMA judges now.
01:28:37.000It's much less of a problem than it used to be.
01:28:39.000But when we travel to places like Texas, where we were this past weekend, and you run into problems where they just don't get world title fights very often.
01:28:46.000And then the main event was a very controversial decision, but close enough that it wasn't.
01:29:34.000Like, respected world-class trainers, respected fighters, respected experts in martial arts that watch these fights or boxing matches, and then tally it up.
01:33:00.000Is there videos of him talking about it or anything?
01:33:03.000Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen him talk about it in depth, but we've seen him, like his motor skills are coming back, he's smiling, he's able to speak.
01:34:19.000But what he told me in an interview, and it might be one of those moments when I was talking to a guy and he said something that was like, I thought I should have known until I heard it.
01:34:29.000And then I was like, oh, I can't believe I didn't realize that.
01:34:31.000He said, it's not the fights that destroy you.
01:34:45.000The hundreds and hundreds of rounds to thousands of rounds that you're fighting that nobody sees, that you're not getting paid for, you're taking that punishment, headgear or not, that's what you're seeing at the end of a fighter's career.
01:34:57.000Do you remember, was it Danny Jacobs Jr.?
01:35:36.000His philosophy, if I remember correctly, Yard's philosophy was if you don't get hit at all in training, you will be so much fresher when you get to the ring.
01:35:45.000So he was doing just ridiculous mitt work and bag work and drills, and he already knew how to box.
01:35:51.000So his idea was that he will have some sort of an advantage.
01:35:54.000And he was a really fairly green guy, right?
01:37:58.000You're opening it up and you're trusting the guy that you're sparring with to help you work on those things and catch you if you're slipping.
01:38:05.000So then if the guy catches you when you're slipping, then a month later he's like, yeah, I caught that motherfucker slipping.
01:38:10.000It's like, yo, that's what I was paying you to do, man.
01:39:12.000Like, there's a whole other life with all its dangers and all the other ways that people can meet tragedy and hurdles you have to overcome.
01:40:23.000But the mental side of it is that to each individual to handle, to be faced with death like that, at that age, whatever the moment was when you were flying through the air, not knowing if you're going to live.
01:42:18.000I mean, I don't think he's ever going to fight Terrence.
01:42:20.000I mean, there was a time when the Mikey Garcia fight could have happened with Lomachenko at 35. I don't think he should ever fight at 40 or above.
01:42:28.000But when you see what Mikey Garcia would happen to him when he went up against Errol Spence, you go, oh, Errol's just way bigger and stronger and better.
01:42:35.000Yeah, I mean, it's a 147 pound division.
01:49:53.000And then when you see them go after it, you're like, oh, it's a combination of things.
01:49:56.000And everybody has their own unique way of implementing this combination of things.
01:50:00.000And then you get to the highest levels of the game and you find some constant variables, but things change and the sport's ever evolving and shifting and the new guys now in 2020 are so much better than the guys in 2010 and way better than the guys in 2000 and way better than the guys in 1993 when the first...
01:51:00.000I just keep watching stuff, and I keep watching difficult fights, and easy fights, and dominant fights, and I watch training footage.
01:51:08.000But that's like, I probably would do that anyway, if I had the time.
01:51:11.000Like, if I'm sitting in my computer and, you know, I don't have shit to do, I'll watch some training footage, I'll watch a countdown show, I'll watch, I want to see what's going on.
01:51:19.000I'm excited for the fight, so I'll get pumped.
01:51:22.000I'll do that for this Wilder Fury fight.
01:51:40.000Looking into a fight and figuring out what the narrative really is, how many things hang in the balance, not just a championship belt or somebody's bragging rights, but all the things that they bring to it personally and the communities that they represent and all the things that are on the line down the line.
01:53:42.000So there's a lot of discipline involved in that.
01:53:44.000And then the podcast expands my perspective.
01:53:50.000Just being able to talk to people and see the way people think.
01:53:53.000Just talking to you about your experience with Deontay Wilder, the way that you framed that in an incredibly positive way, that it helped you and helped everybody.
01:54:02.000There's a lot of people that would have been tortured by that moment, and it would have fucked them up, but you became empowered by it.
01:54:08.000And you looked at it as a growing, learning opportunity, but also an opportunity for the growth of, like, you as a broadcaster, for the fight, for everything.
01:54:32.000This whole thing, they all work together, you know?
01:54:36.000And then the UFC, being able to have the honor of calling these fights live with the greatest fighters in the world and being able to put words to their performance and give a description of the heart and the courage and the skill that these guys exhibit and the discipline involved in getting to this state as a mixed martial artist.
01:56:26.000That's what it's like if you're talking shit about MMA, if you don't really understand the sport.
01:56:30.000I've been involved in the sport in one way or another professionally since 1997. That's when I first started working for the UFC. So it's been...
01:58:52.000Oh, so Tyson Fury and Deontay, that's going to be on DAZN. No, no, no.
01:58:56.000Tyson Fury and Deontay, I think, is a simulcast between Fox, if simulcast is the right word, and ESPN. In other words, they're going to have their own separate pay-per-views that you can watch whichever production you like, which is going to be something like...
01:59:42.000Andre Ward was also one of my favorite guys.
01:59:45.000I love Andre Ward for a bunch of reasons, but one, for the fact that that guy, undefeated, gold medalist, two-division world champion, because you know what?
02:00:48.000So to stop yourself from the money, the glory one more time, the possibility, could you imagine coming out of retirement and beating Canelo Alvarez?
02:01:00.000To be able to be like, you know what, it's better for me and it's better for boxing if I stay retired and keep sitting ringside and talking about these fights in the way I do.
02:01:13.000But he also has this issue with his right shoulder.
02:01:17.000You know, his right shoulder was basically broken most of his career, and he got it fixed before the second Kovalev fight, and he actually wound up hurting Kovalev real bad with a right hand.
02:01:27.000If you watch his career, he was like a left-handed fighter.
02:02:36.000It will take people reflecting on history, I think.
02:02:39.000Unfortunately for him, his kids and their kids might get the benefit of who their dad or grandfather was more so than he's getting it now.
02:02:49.000Well, there's certain great fighters that for whatever reason, they never really captured the public's imagination, even though they were great.
02:02:58.000You know, like Marlon Starling, who's a fantastic welterweight, knocked out Mark Breland, who was actually now Deontay Wilder's trainer.
02:03:06.000But I remember when Mark Breland was coming from the Olympics, and he was this really long, tall welterweight, and he fought Starling, and Starling wasn't really appreciated enough.
02:03:30.000It's unfortunate, but as much as we hate just guys putting on an act or hyping themselves up with these characters they create, that is bankable.
02:03:42.000We all know guys who don't deserve the shots that they continue to get, but because they bring an audience with their shit-talking or with their antics and all the show that they put on, it's better than the fight!
02:03:57.000You know who's the most confusing to me?
02:03:59.000It's Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. He's confusing to me.
02:04:03.000Like that last fight, I'm like, what are you doing?
02:04:06.000Like you're saying, the guy head-butted me, my nose is broken, I'm quitting.
02:07:38.000Listen, we can't not talk about Pacquiao when we talk about the welterweight division.
02:07:44.000Because he's 40 and he's not in the news all the time, he's not at press conference, and we only talk about him when he's got a fight sign, that sometimes in these conversations we forget, yo, he's a world title holder.
02:07:59.000He just dominated a guy that there's no way at his age he should have been able to dominate, considering who Keith Thurman was.
02:08:08.000Two years prior, before his surgery, Pacquiao could ruin everybody's shit.
02:08:16.000But what do you think about, do you think that he would ever step up and fight Terrence Crawford at this stage of his career?
02:08:22.000I don't think that fight happens for multiple reasons.
02:08:25.000I wouldn't suggest it if I was in his camp.
02:08:28.000Also, I don't think that any more than they want to make the Spence-Croffer fight, do they want to put Pacquiao in that kind of harm's way and give top-ranking ESPN an opportunity to dethrone him.
02:08:45.000Like, you know, he's with the Heyman camp now.
02:10:58.000I believe in world champions, although there's way too many of them in every weight division.
02:11:04.000This fucking, like, oh, undefeated fighters are the only ones that are worth talking about.
02:11:11.000If there's one thing I love about the UFC and MMA culture, period, is that losing a fight doesn't mean losing your whole fucking brand.
02:11:21.000If you go out there, comport yourself well, leave it all in the octagon, you live to fight another day and people still respect the effort you put forward.
02:11:29.000They recognize that if you're fighting guys at your level, you'll win some and you'll lose some and hopefully you'll win more than you lose and that's how you become the man.
02:11:40.000But losing some doesn't make you a bitch.
02:11:57.000By the way, that is the most electric...
02:12:00.000Boxing atmosphere I've ever been a part of.
02:12:03.000I've been covering fights my entire adult life.
02:12:05.000They knew, when they were singing the anthem, the Mexicans were singing the Mexican anthem before the fight, and I was sitting there with a friend of mine, also a fellow journalist, Sean Zattel,
02:12:20.000and we were sitting up in the rafters.
02:12:22.000We weren't even sitting in the press row.
02:13:59.000And it is a dark thing to see a fight where you see a guy get beaten down and the referee stops the fight and they see him slump into the corner and collapse.
02:14:31.000And then people were questioning him, you know?
02:14:34.000And then he slumped and collapsed in his corner.
02:14:37.000Yeah, I mean, combat sports are the most brutal of all contests.
02:14:44.000I mean, football's probably next, but the difference is, with combat sports, there's a guy doing it to you, and you're trying to do it to him.
02:14:55.000I mean, it's the only thing that's happening there.
02:14:56.000There's not a ball going across a line.
02:14:59.000There's only a guy trying to fuck you up, and you're trying to fuck him up.
02:15:02.000And the lack of protective equipment is part of the fight.
02:15:21.000But I am surprised that there hasn't been more serious injury in MMA. I don't know if that's just because of how long we've been paying attention.
02:15:34.000You know, MMA has some pretty exceptional referees that are very aware of the dangers of guys taking extra shots.
02:15:40.000There's also a thing where they don't get a chance to recover like they do in boxing, where a guy gets knocked down and then they give him an eight count.
02:16:05.000That ten count, there's something about that ten count.
02:16:07.000It's great because it makes for moments like Tyson Fury rising off the deck to win the rest of the round with Deontay Wilder in that twelfth.
02:16:15.000But it also gives your brain a false sense of recovery.
02:16:28.000If the referee's in front of you, the fight's over.
02:16:30.000When I first started watching MMA, there was no UFC, right?
02:16:34.000I had the bootleg box in my room, and we'd get the fuzzy channel, and people were getting their fucking arms broken and shit, and head-butted and blood all over it.
02:16:45.000Between you and I. Which one did you like better?
02:16:49.000Did you like the first iteration of pretty much everything?
02:17:27.000He'd fuck you up with knees in the clinch.
02:17:29.000He was, in my opinion, the greatest expression of mixed martial arts talent.
02:17:33.000And because he was so next level in terms of his ability to implement his strategy on you, and you couldn't do shit to him.
02:17:40.000But he didn't get a chance to fight the level of talent as a guy like Jon Jones.
02:17:45.000Jon Jones is fascinating to me because he's been able to stay on top for almost a fucking decade, only fighting world-class, top of the food chain, world championship caliber fighters, which is just amazing.
02:18:22.000So John's undefeated, and he's been undefeated, youngest ever world champion, 23 years old, won the world championship in the UFC, and has dominated ever since.
02:18:34.000Is one of the most impressive things in all of sports.
02:18:37.000Watching that guy achieve a record that might never be achieved again.
02:18:43.000The thing about boxing that has my imagination and my fascination continually spark is the finite nature of the tools and the weapons that you have to use.
02:19:40.000Why isn't there like a Bruce Lee of MMA? As a martial artist, can you still believe in like one discipline after all this MMA is proven it doesn't work?
02:19:51.000There's no real one discipline that will work best in MMA. You have to know everything.
02:19:57.000But if I was going to say what discipline is the most important, I would say wrestling.
02:20:01.000Because if you can't keep a guy from taking you down, he's going to be on top of you, he's going to hold you down, he's going to punch you in the face.
02:20:08.000It's a giant advantage to be able to hold a guy down, be able to punch his face in, and you can't really do much when a guy's on top of you.
02:20:14.000That said, from there, you have to understand jiu-jitsu.
02:20:17.000Because if you don't, you could hold a guy down, then all of a sudden he wraps his legs around your neck and you caught a triangle and you go to sleep.